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New movie “The Witch” now in theaters is a creepy but interesting movie re: religion  
Posted: 27 February 2016 10:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
NotAnymore
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and it took me a while after seeing it for it to dawn on me just how anti-religious the movie is. Without giving away too many details, it's based on a Puritan family whose father makes a conscience decision to leave the Puritan village as he is accused of being an apostate. Of course, everything goes from bad to worse to continually worse as the movie progresses but my big epiphany was how the movie is based (ie, what happens to the family) on the realistic perceptions of 17th century Puritanism.
 
The biggest irony though and the one that rings most true with my experience with Mormonism, is even though the family remains steadfastly religious, once they have left the protection of the Puritan village, they are totally left to the elements so to speak. The father's pride led the family out of safety to an area where the bad spirits could influence and overtake the family. Of course, as things get progressively worse the family is torn apart both physically and spiritually as their faith is not only tested but they begin to turn on each other. Again, it's the religious correlation that when pride overtakes you, you are destined to lose heaven's protection and ultimately are damned. It's the "see look what will happen to you" if you leave the church theology. 
 
Overall creepy but well-done movie.  
 
 


   


Posted: 27 February 2016 04:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
Joycee
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Thought this was interesting.  Seems you aren't the only one, lol.
 
 http://variety.com/2016/film/box-office/the-witch-satanic-temple-1201711408/
 
 


   


Posted: 27 February 2016 07:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
Strong Free & Thankful
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NotAnymore:
and it took me a while after seeing it for it to dawn on me just how anti-religious the movie is. Without giving away too many details, it's based on a Puritan family whose father makes a conscience decision to leave the Puritan village as he is accused of being an apostate. Of course, everything goes from bad to worse to continually worse as the movie progresses but my big epiphany was how the movie is based (ie, what happens to the family) on the realistic perceptions of 17th century Puritanism.
 
The biggest irony though and the one that rings most true with my experience with Mormonism, is even though the family remains steadfastly religious, once they have left the protection of the Puritan village, they are totally left to the elements so to speak. The father's pride led the family out of safety to an area where the bad spirits could influence and overtake the family. Of course, as things get progressively worse the family is torn apart both physically and spiritually as their faith is not only tested but they begin to turn on each other. Again, it's the religious correlation that when pride overtakes you, you are destined to lose heaven's protection and ultimately are damned. It's the "see look what will happen to you" if you leave the church theology. 
 
Overall creepy but well-done movie.  
 
 
Don't think I could watch this.  Might lose it over how this is just one more control tactic religion uses that makes people afraid to leave--even when the see evil within the religion.
 
 Signature
I laughed out loud and said “Thank you sir. And I hope every time you hear the name of JS you don’t think about him having sex with those girls and the women who were already married because if you’re going to start being honest with yourself then sooner or later you will also realize a real god would never do that, a real prophet would never do that, and it’s all just bull shit.”
Oh mercy, it just felt so damn good to say that.  —BOLD WISH


   


Posted: 06 March 2016 01:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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owned
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I thought this movie was brilliant. As someone raised during the satanic scare of the 80's, everything rang true. 
Don't go if you're expecting traditional horror.
This movie is more an exploration of what fervent religious zeal can do to people trying to be good people. And what it can make them become in the act of trying to work for a greater good. 
Think lying for the Lord....
In trying so hard to be perfectly righteous, real evil can emerge.  
 
Loved it.
 
 
 
 


   


Posted: 06 March 2016 06:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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WinstonSmith
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Watched it! Loved it! Creeped me out!
 
My overwhelming thought is the absurdity of religious superstition by the homosapien species. Mormonism has nothing on most of the other world religions.
 
I continue to be perplexed how rational persons can become so irrational in matters of the belief in the supernatural? 
 Signature
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”  -Marcus Aurelius


   


            
 
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by Rmyth
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by incawhite
Has Crossed Over To The Side Of Evil
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Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series March 6th 2 PM- MORONI AND THE SWASTIKA
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Wrote to the Paper
by Strong Free & Thankful
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New movie "The Witch" now in theaters is a creepy but interesting movie re: religion
by WinstonSmith
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Mormonism is basically a religion about sex
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2015 Conference
"LEAVING A LEGACY"
October 16-18
Doubletree Suites
SLC, Utah




















 


Financial Report for 2011 to Date

Financial Report for 2010 to Date

Financial Report for 2009

Twin Falls Newspaper Article

Twin Falls Billboard

Financial Report for 2009 to Date




The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
[Sound Thinking]

Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
[Peep Stone!]

Native American DNA
[Post-Mormon Mag.]



 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (3/6)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
 Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series- March 6th, 2016 Author Dave Nelson
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
Open House Meetup: 3/19/16
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
Train ride and picnic Meetup: 2/27/16
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series February 7th, 2016- Joe Rawlins
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Book of Mormon Tories
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Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
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Resignation Letter to My Family
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Resignation Letter to My Family
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Utah County CALM meetup for November
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October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
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Why I am a Better Mother
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exmoinaz

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Resignation Letter to My Family
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Mitt Romney dissing Trump after courting him for contributions previously?  Typical Mormon lack-of-INTEGRITY!!!  
Posted: 03 March 2016 07:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Tessa
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Wail on Mitty....and give Trump his money back.
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


Posted: 03 March 2016 09:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
skeptic
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Tessa:
Wail on Mitty....and give Trump his money back.
 
Mitt Romney dissing Trump after courting him for contributions previously?  Typical Mormon lack-of-INTEGRITY!!! 
 
 Tessa,
Your title nails it 
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For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.” - John 3:20, KJV

The Bright Light of Skeptical Scrutiny is the best disinfectant.

Each of us is a prisoner if we live in a world without wonder and curiosity, and we must be willing to explore the world of ideas if we want to be free. Marietta McCarty explaining the meaning of Plato’s Allegory of the Cave.


   


Posted: 03 March 2016 10:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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YesIAmAPyr8
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Uh, oh.
 
Is that a white horse on the horizon?  
 
 
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-The Pirate...(arriving 200 years too late…)
...I’m not the first, won’t be the last.  Lust for the future, treasure the past… proud.jpg
“Make sure that your moral compass is set due ‘the right thing’.”  -Emerson Cod
This post has been reviewed for it’s content, and has been found to comply with the general concept of the mission of this website and it’s management.  Approved for submission by member #1087.


   


Posted: 03 March 2016 12:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Celestial Wedgie
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YesIAmAPyr:
Uh, oh.
 
Is that a white horse on the horizon?  
 
 
 
 LOL! Yes, but...of, it's just the same one who came by four years ago. Who knows? Maybe this time the horse won't stumble.


   


Posted: 03 March 2016 09:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Tessa
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Does he want to be Cruz/Rubio's Veep???!!!
 Signature
”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


Posted: 03 March 2016 11:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
Avatar
TruthSeeker47
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Tessa:
Wail on Mitty....and give Trump his money back.
 
 This video from 2012 shows Mitt Romney praising the man Donald Trump as a businessman super-genius.
 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-10_GwRwSg
 
 
 
 
 
 


   


Posted: 04 March 2016 07:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
Avatar
Celestial Wedgie
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TruthSeeker:
Tessa:
Wail on Mitty....and give Trump his money back.
 
 This video from 2012 shows Mitt Romney praising the man Donald Trump as a businessman super-genius.
 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-10_GwRwSg
    
 


   


Posted: 04 March 2016 10:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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Winyan
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Tessa:
Does he want to be Cruz/Rubio's Veep???!!!
 
 I think he wants to be President. He thinks he can ruin Trump and then swoop in and scoop up the nomination. A kind of hostile takeover.


   


Posted: 04 March 2016 10:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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Kevin2
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“And now that you don’t have to be perfect, you can be good.” -John Steinbeck


   


            
 
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PoMo ecovillage?
by Rmyth
Somebody outed my FB post to my Bishop, SP and A70.
by incawhite
Has Crossed Over To The Side Of Evil
by Matter Unorganized
Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series March 6th 2 PM- MORONI AND THE SWASTIKA
by Matter Unorganized
Wrote to the Paper
by Strong Free & Thankful
An Australian Orchid Presents Intelligent Design Supporters With Huge Dilemna
by Born Free
Trump ?
by Denker
New movie "The Witch" now in theaters is a creepy but interesting movie re: religion
by WinstonSmith
St. Judas the Traitor 1st Ward - Meetup - Sunday, March 6th, 10:00am at Harmons (Draper, UT) - ***New photo at bottom of thread***
by BITE ME
Elder Bill Shunn... link to a great true story
by CorbinBrodie
Eliza Snow
by Elder OldDog
Mormonism is basically a religion about sex
by shunn
Mitt Romney dissing Trump after courting him for contributions previously? Typical Mormon lack-of-INTEGRITY!!!
by Kevin2
Romney & Neo-cons hate Trump because "he didn't belong to a secret society"-Newt Gingrich
by Winyan
What is it with the GA's?
by Celestial Wedgie
Portland Monthly Ex-Mormon Meetup - Mar. 13
by LessMon
Ex-ing gay couples?
by CorbinBrodie
The Talk
by maynardg
Endured a Visiting Teaching message to the bitter end
by LostInParadise
I'm New - Just met with my Bishop - Not a good experiance
by MishMagnet 

   http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/discussions/viewthread/42141/





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2015 Conference
"LEAVING A LEGACY"
October 16-18
Doubletree Suites
SLC, Utah




















 


Financial Report for 2011 to Date

Financial Report for 2010 to Date

Financial Report for 2009

Twin Falls Newspaper Article

Twin Falls Billboard

Financial Report for 2009 to Date




The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
[Sound Thinking]

Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
[Peep Stone!]

Native American DNA
[Post-Mormon Mag.]



 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (3/6)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
 Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series- March 6th, 2016 Author Dave Nelson
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
Open House Meetup: 3/19/16
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
Train ride and picnic Meetup: 2/27/16
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series February 7th, 2016- Joe Rawlins
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
SF Bay Area Super Bowl Party (Feb 7)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
Jan 10th, 2016-Southern Utah PostMormons will present an outstanding lecture combo
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
New Year's Eve Party
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (1/3)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (12/6)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
Southern Utah Post Mormon Association to meet December 6th at the Red Lion in St. George
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
Christmas Party ~ Diamond Head Area
[Oahu Post Mormon ...] 


Book of Mormon Tories
by Chris Sexton 
Why I am a Better Mother
by antipsicótica 
Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by Barney 
Resignation Letter to My Family
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
former victim

The Book of Mormon Musical comes to South Carolina!
Swearing Elder

Resignation Letter to My Family
INRETROSPECT

Resignation Letter to My Family
oneanother

Utah County CALM meetup for November
BlackSheep2

FACEBOOK INFO
Crissy

FACEBOOK INFO
Barn

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
Starfleet

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
alvie

Why I am a Better Mother
by aworkinprogress 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
exmoinaz

SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
owned

The Mormon Mask
by Born Free 
Las Vegas Meetup--Jazz in the Park Saturday May 10 6:30PM
onendagus

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Resignation Letter to My Family
Hbush1987

General Non-Conference: Palmetto State Session
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It Just Keeps Getting Better for the FLDS (link)  
Posted: 23 February 2016 01:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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11 FLDS members, including 2 of Warren Jeffs' brothers, have been arrested in a food stamps fraud scheme. More here.
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Posted: 23 February 2016 02:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
former victim
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Interesting to note that Utah agencies were not the ones conducting the roundup...Where was Utah AG Sean Reyes? Or in days gone by, former AG Mark Shurtlef?  John Swallow?  




   


Posted: 23 February 2016 03:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized:
11 FLDS members, including 2 of Warren Jeffs' brothers, have been arrested in a food stamps fraud scheme. More here.
 
 Couldn't have happened to a more deserving bunch.


   


Posted: 23 February 2016 03:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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former victim:
Interesting to note that Utah agencies were not the ones conducting the roundup...Where was Utah AG Sean Reyes? Or in days gone by, former AG Mark Shurtlef?  John Swallow?  



 
Shurtlef had some kind of agreement with the FLDS that he wouldn't prosecute them. Personally I think there's been pressure from the Mormon church too.


   


Posted: 24 February 2016 01:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Maybe these guys will end up being polygamist wives in prison. 

   


Posted: 24 February 2016 01:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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I like seeing their power structure suffer some direct hits. There's too much ickiness and social harm caused by the organization for it to be left alone. 

   


Posted: 25 February 2016 12:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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It's about time. Unfortunately, it took the feds to get them on food stamp fraud because Utah and Arizona weren't doing anything.
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Posted: 25 February 2016 05:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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Karma can be a bitch some times...look at Al Capone, he fell to tax evasion. 

   


            
 
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Morg and Utah politics  
Posted: 19 February 2016 06:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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It's been very interesting to see TWO seperate bills getting the attention of the morg here in Utah. Obviously with the internet, chuch statements get out more easil, but I can't remember another time when the church has been quiet as vocal in politics. Maybe I just wasn't paying attention, but it used to seem like they kept out of it.
 
The fact that these things are coming out more often though makes me think the morg is getting a bit freaked out. They see they are losing their control on things here in Utah. As more people leave, or even just think differently about freedoms, I think the morg can see their influence lessening.
 
None of their statements have made sense, and it's been kind of neat to see TBMs questioning what the statements mean on FB. I wonder if the morg meddling will actually lead to deeper questions from some TBM. Many friends of mine support medical MJ and many of them support SSA rights as well, so recent items have thrown them for a loop. 
 
At any rate, I am just happy to see that not as many are just following blindly along without question. There are still many who do, but I see a shift.


   


Posted: 19 February 2016 09:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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I have wondered if the Church has just be come braver in being vocal.
 
From my rose colored glasses it seems to me that since the Tea Party Movement began, in America, mixing religion and politics is not so taboo. It seems like half of the GOP presidential canidates have been campaigning on an Evangelical platform. A bar has been set, as to what the Mormon church can say politically and get away with it. Of course they will seize the opprotunity, and they are. 
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Posted: 19 February 2016 09:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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What I find most interesting (and AWESOME) is that, in both cases, LDS state senators STOOD UP TO THE cHURCH! I personally feel like the church has always tried to weigh in on politics (which, regrettably, I used to be proud of), but I think the winds of "rolling over" are changing. 
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Posted: 19 February 2016 09:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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LostInParadise:
What I find most interesting (and AWESOME) is that, in both cases, LDS state senators STOOD UP TO THE cHURCH! I personally feel like the church has always tried to weigh in on politics (which, regrettably, I used to be proud of), but I think the winds of "rolling over" are changing. 
 
 Isn't it interesting how our veiws may have changed over the years? Especially since leaving the Church.
Even as TBM as I had been growing up, I was always embarrassed when the leaders of the church came out and said things like, "Good members will vote xyz..." I would complain that I thought that we had been taught that the church was supposed to stay out of the political arena. My folks would confirm that was the official veiw, but that many 'leaders' would cross the line at times, and assured me that they would be disciplined (I then wondered when or how) for that.  Yet, now, I expect the leaders to act this way. It's just what a good Mormon would do, and well, they are making themselves be even more 'set apart' from the rest of the world. I really wonder how much my parents actually shielded me from!
I mean, I can accept the idea of teaching the sheep what is expected, but to outright tell them that they MUST do.... and to openly fight or back a law, it just frustrates me!
 
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Posted: 19 February 2016 11:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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It seems to me that the church of years past impacted politics by working quietly from behind the curtain. They would lobby politicians and the flock would just follow on their own. Recently the flock seems to be developing a conscience and relies less on the church to define their political views. We are proof of that. Now that people are more independent the church is growing desperate and has started using press releases to control the votes of TBM.
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Posted: 19 February 2016 11:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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Kevin:
It seems to me that the church of years past impacted politics by working quietly from behind the curtain. They would lobby politicians and the flock would just follow on their own. Recently the flock seems to be developing a conscience and relies less on the church to define their political views. We are proof of that. Now that people are more independent the church is growing desperate and has started using press releases to control the votes of TBM.
 
Sounds a little like  when he started acting more and more desperate to retain his followers toward the end. Anyone else getting a sense of foreboding here? *queue ominous music*
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Posted: 20 February 2016 04:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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Damn it! Those meddling dudes got their way on the medical mj bill. This is so stupid, never have they spoken out on other medicine coming to market... but of course, they did on this one. 

   


Posted: 20 February 2016 04:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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Meanwhile TBM keep killing themselves with prescription drugs.
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G.A. accused of sexual assault (link)  
Posted: 14 February 2016 09:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Let's see if this gets any traction. He claims the victims, 3 and 6 year old girls, were being "promiscuous" with him. Please tell me how a 3 year old child would know how to be promiscuous???
 
http://www.lifeaftermormonism.net/video/lds-utah-child-molestation-cover-up
 
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Posted: 14 February 2016 09:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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The alleged perpetrator is Lynn A. Mickelsen, emeritus member of the 70. More alarming than the allegations is the claim that the cover-up went right to the top. You'd think the church would have taken note of what went down in the Catholic Church. 
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Posted: 14 February 2016 09:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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It's all over the internet... even my non-mormon contacts have referred to it in their fb feeds! 
I am not at all shocked, don't know the total ins and outs, but do believe Ron's assertion that you can't get a non-religiously biased legal help in UT is probably very correct.  But, there are a few... even his quote that 4 out of 5 of the Ut. Supreme court justices have taken the death oaths, shows that ONE has not! So, there may be a possible helper there... you just have to look long, hard and steadfastly to find it!
 
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Posted: 14 February 2016 09:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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The human race benefits from 'nurturing' its young.  
 
For whatever reason, the ability to be immediately mobile and the ability to 'learn' seem to have traded off; you can't be one if you're going to be the other.  Humans are helpless, in terms of providing for themselves, for years after birth, whereas the 'dumber' the animal, the more immediately it is able to flee predators.  
 
It is beyond discussion that human children will die if they are not cared for, and that while the age at which they can live independently will vary, if there are those who say that it could be as low as six (much less three), such individuals are a special kind of insane.
 
Children that young CAN learn that certain behaviors are rewarded, just as certain behaviors might be punished, or at least frowned upon.  Which to me, under the circumstances presented by the basic story, means that IF the children were acting in a promiscuous manner, they'd learned that it was behavior that was rewarded.  
 
So it all comes back to the adults.  When it's done right, being an adult doesn't really get noticed.
 
Anyway, I didn't watch the video.  The allegations might be true, or they might not.  What I have no doubt of, without having to see the video, is that mormons are humans and that humans run the gamut, on any spectrum you care to name.  And when it comes to being scummy and just all around disgusting, mixing religion and lots of money brings out the worst in terms of defending the tribe.  The welfare of the organization would always be put first.
 
But if the accused was actually on record as defending himself by saying the girls 'seduced' him, no matter how corrupt my organization was, I'd sure be tempted to throw him to the wolves.  They didn't mind kicking George P. Lee to the curb.
 
 
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Posted: 14 February 2016 01:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized, you most likely will not like this comment that I am typing. Thank you for the link with video  information. The concluding statements made in the last minute or so of this video parallel some of the things I have been posting about with regard to mr john dehlin. I am not saying pediphelia is a dehlin crime, however. ... " if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem..." " and donating to these entities that perpetrate hide or cover for these perpetrators only means that you are a financier ...".  STAYlds , which is a dehlin business owned web business  funds the perpetrators. Also repeating here that mr dehlin is in full awareness of the slaughter of a wagon train at mountain meadows and stayed lds made him a financier as well of murder in that event. These are the same types of comments I have been making. John Larsen had the decency to call dehlin on his inability to be true to himself and just get out. This I have pointed out a few times as well. You posted an educational link. I am standing behind what is presented in this link. Certainly there are more options than paying the cult called a church tithing or donating to dehlin a tithing habit. Capiche?
 
 
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Posted: 14 February 2016 03:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized:
Let's see if this gets any traction. He claims the victims, 3 and 6 year old girls, were being "promiscuous" with him. Please tell me how a 3 year old child would know how to be promiscuous???
 
http://www.lifeaftermormonism.net/video/lds-utah-child-molestation-cover-up
 
 
Wow. How totally sickening is that.
 
But interesting information about what was really behind the temple changes.


   


Posted: 15 February 2016 01:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
Free2Live
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Glenn L. Pace, 2nd counselor in the Presiding Bishopric of the cult of jesus christ of latter day saints, did many interviews and much research into abuse in the late 1980s. His TBM Memorandum to the First Presidency by way of the 'Strengthening Church Members Committee' was leaked public.
 
http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no80.htm#PACE
 
All 12 pages need read and understood. The topic speaks volumes.  Keep in mind it was written from a believing member hoping that a scourge inside the good kingdom would be addressed. We as postmormon and exmormon realize that all of mormondom is bullshit. Problems of the whole cult corporation are easily exposed when looking at the occult founder jo the pervert smith to begin with. Ultimate brainwashing by ritual abuse to shred a human psyche into fractured multiples with dark programming is what is presented. Think about how the mechanics really are now that we know the cult is a fraud and a hoax. Everything is made up mental emotional larceny.
 
Even if michelson didn't do 'acts' by satanic ritual abuse the Total church is set up to cover it up as if it was. It is the fallout of the origins and the fruit from the seeds planted.
 
Those claiming to protect the innocent ought to protect the innocent and not continue to take advantage of others. Here I have to ask where is the help monetarily to sexual assault victims from mormonstories? I read and see requests for a lifetime of donations to pay for dehlins kids othodontics education and so forth. I posted here on postmormon a suggestion for a DNA study to get $$$ from dehlin. The responses were self appointed goons farting with keystrokes in complaint of such an idea. The church does so much good...blah blah blah ... sound familiar? A quote from a website called the Mormon Brief,  says:
 
 We as a community need to act to protect innocents from clergy/church abuse. "The only people who get mad at you for speaking the truth are those invested in the lie." (unknown).
 
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Posted: 15 February 2016 07:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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Dovolente
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Thanks for the information.
 
The youtube video unfortunately seems so edited and staged that it is hard to see it as entirely authentic.  
 
But it is alarming and IMO worthy of investigation (by whomever investigates this stuff...?)
 
In the comments section, someone posted a link to the accussed GA's 2003 conference talk about airing dirty laundry, wherein he emphasized "concealment"--a bit chilling given the context of the video:
 
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2003/10/the-atonement-repentance-and-dirty-linen?lang=eng
 
-
"It is not necessary, appropriate, nor healthy to expose our private or family mistakes and sins for public scrutiny. The more widely a sin is known, the more difficult the repentance or change."
 
"Forget. A relentless memory can canker the most resilient spirit. Leave it alone; lay it down; put it away. If the wave of temptation to reveal others’ sins comes over you, don’t tell your neighbor or even your best friend." 
 
Amidst all that emphasis on privateness, not judging, and forgetting, he did at least acknowledge once that public authorities should be notified.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


   


Posted: 15 February 2016 09:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
Strong Free & Thankful
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Thank you so much for this link!  Just posted this to my FB page.  Hope my TBM family do not de-friend me.  Oh well!
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I laughed out loud and said “Thank you sir. And I hope every time you hear the name of JS you don’t think about him having sex with those girls and the women who were already married because if you’re going to start being honest with yourself then sooner or later you will also realize a real god would never do that, a real prophet would never do that, and it’s all just bull shit.”
Oh mercy, it just felt so damn good to say that.  —BOLD WISH


   


Posted: 15 February 2016 01:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized
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Free2Live:
Matter Unorganized, you most likely will not like this comment that I am typing. Thank you for the link with video  information. The concluding statements made in the last minute or so of this video parallel some of the things I have been posting about with regard to mr john dehlin. I am not saying pediphelia is a dehlin crime, however. ... " if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem..." " and donating to these entities that perpetrate hide or cover for these perpetrators only means that you are a financier ...".  STAYlds , which is a dehlin business owned web business  funds the perpetrators. Also repeating here that mr dehlin is in full awareness of the slaughter of a wagon train at mountain meadows and stayed lds made him a financier as well of murder in that event. These are the same types of comments I have been making. John Larsen had the decency to call dehlin on his inability to be true to himself and just get out. This I have pointed out a few times as well. You posted an educational link. I am standing behind what is presented in this link. Certainly there are more options than paying the cult called a church tithing or donating to dehlin a tithing habit. Capiche?
 
 
 
Well, it wouldnt be proper for a thread to go by with both of us commenting and nary a JD rant, now would it? 
 
That said... I recently saw something on my facebook feed that made mention of a JD retreat weekend and the cost was outrageous, something like $750 a head? Or was that per couple? Still outrageous. I couldn't verify that on his "mormon transitions" web page, but I was able to verify that last year's conference was $350 per head, and that did not include food or lodging. Still outrageous. 
 
I do understand where you're coming from as far as feeding the beast goes when I see shit like this. 
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Posted: 15 February 2016 07:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
Free2Live
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Matter Unorganized:
Free2Live:
 
 Actually, I dread logging back on to postmo to read the responses. lol My tbm life never gave me skills in dealing with aggression. A lover not a fighter, but learning to wield a pen here.  Some things trigger me and off I go into qwerty mode. I endured enough abuse both in and out of church situations over my lifetime. I was a good little mormon and just took the abuse. Finding words to express frustration and disgust does seem to help. I try not to attack individuals but then if people in general read what I write I am addressing his followers for being duped yet again. Those lines I quoted, felt like I thought and said them myself with regard to this other cult of jd. Thanks for your reply. 
 
That Memorandum from Glenn L Pace speaks volumes of encyclodedia statements on abuse in the church. It shows how well aware of it the lds church is and yet does nothing about it.  
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Posted: 16 February 2016 09:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]   

   
 
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maynardg
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IMVHO, given the experiences I've had and read about(reminds me of videos I use to show my students about air pollution and its relationship to genetic abnormalities in child development  --  interesting viewing but no direct correlation has been found  --  btw, you can make research say anything you like), nothing, absolutely nothing surprises me anymore about the morg.  Given how much the morg lies about its history, etc, it doesn't surprise me that they wouldn't lie/try to cover up/make the victims look crazier than bedbugs to hide the guilty.  I hope I'm alive when the "shit hits the fan"  and the morgbots won't be able to just brush it off as simply some crazies wanting to harm/hurt the morg.  That will be  ......  PRICELESS! 

   


Posted: 16 February 2016 10:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]   

   
 
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Swearing Elder
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Matter Unorganized:
The alleged perpetrator is Lynn A. Mickelsen, emeritus member of the 70. 
 
Two critiques if the person who made the video ever sees this: Some of the claims are seem over-the-top and outrageous; I think it would have been best to stay just with his personal story for the purposes of this video and save the larger accusations for another video or venue. Second, the music is absolutely awful and makes it seem even more sensationalistic and propagandistic. (If the original author of the video can edit the video and reload it without the music, I think it would be much better. Just my humble opinion.)
 
Now, with that out of the way...
 
Mickelsen came to my mission (as did many GAs at various times, including Richard Scott) and I was at a "special" session just for zone leaders and the mission office, held at the mission president's home. He spoke in Spanish and I was asked to serve as interpreter for a couple visiting from the U.S. If memory serves they were relatives of the mission president or his wife and they were in their 60s or 70s.
 
Most of his talk is totally forgettable; I don't have the faintest recollection of what it was about. But then he switched to sex. He looked at the elders in the room and started to give stern warnings about being morally chaste and pure on our missions and after. He then said that he is often asked what is permissible and what isn't. Mickelsen started off with the standard chastity stuff and then got more and more graphic.
 
I started to become embarrassed at the things I had to say in English for this older man and woman. Here I am a 20 year-old missionary kid translating graphic (and I mean graphic) sexual language from Spanish to English for this elderly couple. Finally, the woman thanked me for interpreting for her and said she was going to go help with the food in the kitchen and the man immediately said he'd help too.
 
It was sweet relief that I could stop doing the translation. The whole thing was creepy as hell. He seemed absolutely obsessed with talking about sex. Every time I saw Mickelsen in the Ensign or at General Conference my mind immediately returned to that (very, very) uncomfortable session at the mission home. 
 
My mission journals are stuffed away right now, but if I have a chance to find them (anyone have a peepstone I can borrow to find them?) I'll look to see if I wrote anything about this incident in my journal.  
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Posted: 16 February 2016 10:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]   

   
 
Strong Free & Thankful
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Dovolente:
Thanks for the information.
 
The youtube video unfortunately seems so edited and staged that it is hard to see it as entirely authentic.  
 
But it is alarming and IMO worthy of investigation (by whomever investigates this stuff...?)
 
In the comments section, someone posted a link to the accussed GA's 2003 conference talk about airing dirty laundry, wherein he emphasized "concealment"--a bit chilling given the context of the video:
 
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2003/10/the-atonement-repentance-and-dirty-linen?lang=eng
 
-
"It is not necessary, appropriate, nor healthy to expose our private or family mistakes and sins for public scrutiny. The more widely a sin is known, the more difficult the repentance or change."
 
"Forget. A relentless memory can canker the most resilient spirit. Leave it alone; lay it down; put it away. If the wave of temptation to reveal others’ sins comes over you, don’t tell your neighbor or even your best friend." 
 
Amidst all that emphasis on privateness, not judging, and forgetting, he did at least acknowledge once that public authorities should be notified.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Chilling is correct.  Blaming the abuse on the two little girls and then giving a talk on the importance of conceling one's sins.  From what I have read, a nice chunk of tithing money goes as payoffs to victims or those knowledgeable about church leaders, missionaires, etc who have sexually abused.  
 
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I laughed out loud and said “Thank you sir. And I hope every time you hear the name of JS you don’t think about him having sex with those girls and the women who were already married because if you’re going to start being honest with yourself then sooner or later you will also realize a real god would never do that, a real prophet would never do that, and it’s all just bull shit.”
Oh mercy, it just felt so damn good to say that.  —BOLD WISH


   


Posted: 18 February 2016 08:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]   

   
 
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Elder OldDog
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On another exmo site, a comment was made to the effect that an exmo family law attorney in Utah wondered about the Karren v. Karren divorce.  She, the exmo attorney, was quoted as having uttered reservations about the video content because of the 'presentation.'  So, according to the second hand account, the exmo family law attorney checked out the divorce law suit in Provo and then wrote to others online that the content of the court file did not jibe with what the Karren video claimed.  Specifically she posted that Karren was not granted custody, and that in fact he was only granted 'Supervised Visitation.'  
 
A supporter of Ronald Karren then posted content from Karren's FB page, allegedly disputing this.  
 
Neutral parties are wondering which is true, and obviously, the court record is essentially a public document, so I'm just waiting for someone to post the minute orders.  ...see, in court actions, the parties can file all the voluminous paperwork they want, but when the court makes a decision, it's usually in the form of a one page 'minute order.'   
 
Another allegation made by the exmo attorney is that Ronald Karren acted as his own attorney.  Sounds like a brave thing to do, but Abraham Lincoln is on record as saying, "A man who represents himself has a fool for a client."  Of course it's not always the case, but there's a valid truth behind the thought.
 
Finally, I personally read a Utah Court of Appeals decision that denied Ronald Karren's appeal that the trial court's decision to NOT bar from participation in his case any and everyone who'd made temple vows was in error.  The Court of Appeals affirmed the trial court's decision, but to me, it seemed that it was just on procedural grounds.  The statute on which Karren relied in asking for the ban on temple oath takers demanded an affidavit in support of the request.  Karren failed to file such an affidavit.
 
Here's the link to the Appellate court decision:
 
http://cases.islaws.com/utah/utah-karren-v-karren-case-no-20120774-ca-filed-december-20-2012-2012-ut-app-359 
 
Take a second to look at the footnote to the decision.  Apparently still pending is Karren's request that the COJCOLDS be joined as a party to the divorce action...
 
Certainly there is no issue that religious organizations often give aid and assistance to pedophiles, and certainly the GA in question's talk made him look like he had stuff to hide, but there's still a ways to go between Ronald Karren's accusations and a finding that the GA did naughty things, with the mormon church backing his play.
 
When I see the court's order that Ronald Karren was granted sole custody of his children, that will calm the troubled waters.  But if the exmo attorney's assertion that he was only granted 'Supervised Visitation', then I'm going to lose interest.
 
Of course, it's possible that there both orders were made, sole custody and supervised visitation!  If so, then the order in which they were made will be paramount, because it makes sense that evidence was presented to change one order into the other.
 
I'm under the impression that Ronald Karren's FB page is interesting.  I'd appreciate some feedback on that issue, since I don't do FB like its billionaire owner would like me to. 
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Posted: 22 February 2016 01:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]   

   
 
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Brad (ZeeZrom)
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EOD,
 
You can find the docket here.
 
There is no minute order that tells us what the custody arrangements were under the divorce decree.   However, three years later the father filed a motion for "Full Custody."  The mother hired an attorney who filed an objection.  The court declined to rule becuase the motion had not been submitted properly.
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Runnells/CES  
Posted: 22 February 2016 08:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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My Turn
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Hi everybody!  I am on my office computer upstairs so I can connect.  I do check in postmo everyday on my laptop..that doesn't know my password and I can't remember it..again..
Anyway, welcome to all the people who have checked since I have...I can't believe how many members we have here now.  As I have been checking in..I haven't seen much info here on the Jeremy Runnells DC meeting next month.  Just wondering how everybody feels about it and whether or not you think he should be ..or would be excommunicated.
I may not be on this computer all day to respond but will be checking in on the laptop to see responses.  Thanks for always being here when I need you!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 



 



 



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Posted: 22 February 2016 10:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized
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I don't think it's so much a matter of whether he should get excommunicated, but whether he will.
 
If the church's actions the last few years are anything to go by, Jeremy Runnells will soon be a non-member. I look at the cases of John Dehlin, Kate Kelly, Alan Rock Waterman, Denver Snuffer et al, and it's clear from those that Runnells is doomed. The church is so image-conscious these days that they will swing the ax at anyone who dares to dissent publicly. It's one thing to have opposing ideas, but the moment they get traction and go viral, heads are gonna roll. It all comes down to "the good name of the church" (actually a phrase used in disciplinary councils). It's a lesson to questioning members: don't make your questions public.
 
That's all Runnells did, he had questions. He brought them to a trusted advisor (in this case a CES director) and did not get answers. So he published his letter in the hopes of getting answers, and the countdown to excommunication was on. (This is a VERY simplified version of the facts.) It was really only a matter of time.
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Posted: 22 February 2016 01:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Zelph the White
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Honestly, I'm surprised they didn't excommunicate him a long time ago. I'm absolutely expecting them to ex him though. Because I doubt Jeremy will be willing to do the "repentant sinner" act.
 
I think it's only a matter of time and he was asking for it the instant he posted his letter for public consumption. 


   


Posted: 22 February 2016 01:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Excommunicating him might do them more harm than good.  Jeremy has put together an accurate and concise report, which the church could not want to end up in the media.  Imagine if great numbers of TBMs read his report because they saw it in the news.  We might gain a lot of new members here very fast.    Go ahead COB--make our day!
 
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I laughed out loud and said “Thank you sir. And I hope every time you hear the name of JS you don’t think about him having sex with those girls and the women who were already married because if you’re going to start being honest with yourself then sooner or later you will also realize a real god would never do that, a real prophet would never do that, and it’s all just bull shit.”
Oh mercy, it just felt so damn good to say that.  —BOLD WISH


   


Posted: 22 February 2016 08:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
CorbinBrodie
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My thoughts...
 
Jeremy Runnells in the LDS Court of Love


   


Posted: 23 February 2016 06:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
former victim
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Personally, I'd like to see first page coverage by the SL Tribune concerning this activity.
 
It will be interesting to follow this and see how TSCC handles its image problem(s) in open daylight, (for a change). 


   


Posted: 23 February 2016 06:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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MishMagnet
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I had never heard of him or his letter - until one of my FB friends liked his status about his upcoming "Court of Love".  Spent an aftrenoon reading the CES Letter.  Wow, such a concise, fully documented, powerful work.  It covered topics that led me out of the church (mainly polygamy and Holy Ghost issues <which the LDS do not own no matter how much they like to think they do>) and so many other issues I wasn't even that familar with. 
 
I'm also surprised he wasn't ex'ed earlier.  His letter has it's on web site for crying out loud.   
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Posted: 23 February 2016 09:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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Celestial Wedgie
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Excommunication seems the most likely outcome, at least to me. I heard his interview with John Dehlin on Mormon Stories and enjoyed their conversation. But I also disagree with his claim of not knowing what he's been charged with: "activity unbecoming a member of the church." Although the handbook doesn't use these words, nearly all post-Mormons and probably most active Mormons know that the main reasons for ex-communications are (1) sex and (2) making the church look bad. Maybe the old Spencer W. Kimball line could be revised: "The sin second only to bad PR."

I wish Jeremy the very best. I hope his wife and kids are okay. I think he has done a great thing, promoting a more accurate account of LDS history, practices, and culture.
 
   to Jeremy.


   


Posted: 23 February 2016 09:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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WinstonSmith
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Celestial Wedgie:
Excommunication seems the most likely outcome, at least to me. I heard his interview with John Dehlin on Mormon Stories and enjoyed their conversation. But I also disagree with his claim of not knowing what he's been charged with: "activity unbecoming a member of the church." Although the handbook doesn't use these words, nearly all post-Mormons and probably most active Mormons know that the main reasons for ex-communications are (1) sex and (2) making the church look bad. Maybe the old Spencer W. Kimball line could be revised: "The sin second only to bad PR."

I wish Jeremy the very best. I hope his wife and kids are okay. I think he has done a great thing, promoting a more accurate account of LDS history, practices, and culture.
 
   to Jeremy.
 
[   ] Not sure that I would state it this way---the Q15 are doing a fine job in "making the church look bad" (see children of gay parents banned from coming unto Christ in the Mormon Church). I would restate it something like this:
 
(2) making the church look like it is not the "one and only true church" by asking legitimate questions and disclosing historical problems and truth via the world wide web. btw IMO - in the eyes of the Church this is the current sin next to murder---beating out sex.
 
[   ] This is why I continue to stay annonomous on this board. My name is still on the records of the Church, and if my SP knew that I posted here, I have no doubt that I would be called into a "court of love". 
 Signature
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”  -Marcus Aurelius


   


Posted: 24 February 2016 01:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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Celestial Wedgie
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WinstonSmith:
 
[snip] 
 
[   ] This is why I continue to stay annonomous on this board. My name is still on the records of the Church, and if my SP knew that I posted here, I have no doubt that I would be called into a "court of love". 
Keeping anonymous is smart. There was a time when someone from the faithful fold began following me here on PostMo and it caused some trouble and distress. It's easier to avoid it in the first place.


   


Posted: 25 February 2016 07:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
Bruce A Holt
Jr. Member
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Joined  2014-04-03
 
  
 
Celestial Wedgie:
WinstonSmith:
 
[snip] 
 
[   ] This is why I continue to stay annonomous on this board. My name is still on the records of the Church, and if my SP knew that I posted here, I have no doubt that I would be called into a "court of love". 
Keeping anonymous is smart. There was a time when someone from the faithful fold began following me here on PostMo and it caused some trouble and distress. It's easier to avoid it in the first place.
 
 I'm still on the membership records. I can still log into my account on lds.org. I haven't resigned and I haven't been excommunicated.
 
As you can see, I am not being anonymous.
 
My wife is TBM. We became best of friends before romance entered the picture. We're still best friends in spite of my recent declaration of unbelief. But if I resign, that's an act I take. If I get ex'd, that's an act the church takes.
 
It makes a big difference to her.
 
It makes no difference to me. Out is out. 
 Signature
Science is a way to call the bluff of those who only pretend to knowledge. If we’re true to its values, it can tell us when we’re being lied to. It provides a mid-course correction to our mistakes. - Carl Sagan


   


Posted: 25 February 2016 08:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]   

   
 
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Celestial Wedgie
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Bruce A Holt: 
 I'm still on the membership records. I can still log into my account on lds.org. I haven't resigned and I haven't been excommunicated.
 
As you can see, I am not being anonymous.
 
My wife is TBM. We became best of friends before romance entered the picture. We're still best friends in spite of my recent declaration of unbelief. But if I resign, that's an act I take. If I get ex'd, that's an act the church takes.
 
It makes a big difference to her.
 
It makes no difference to me. Out is out. 
 
 I'm glad that you're in a solid marriage like that. In your case there is no sword hanging over your head. It would be great if all other "devestigators" had nothing to lose by investigating, consulting, and sharing what they find, think, wonder, and believe. Usually the LDS church or Mormon culture is more effective at causing or threatening real harm.


   


            
 
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Somebody outed my FB post to my Bishop, SP and A70.  
Posted: 04 March 2016 01:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
Bruce A Holt
Jr. Member
RankRank
Joined  2014-04-03
 
  
 
Here's my post:
 
 My Bishop texted me this morning to see if we could have a chat. I answered we could. He called.
 We made an appointment for Wednesday evening at 7:00 in the Bishop's office (he gave me my choice). He, the Stake President, and our Area Seventy are concerned about my public post, most particularly the part where I stated I believe Joseph Smith was a fraud.
 They wonder if I would consider retracting that statement.
 Since it was the singular reason for my disaffection, rather than mundane things like sin or being offended, I won't be retracting anything. But, we'll have our appointment on Wednesday. 
I searched my list of friends and none are Ward or Stake members. There are a few from my prior Ward in Texas (we're now in Colorado) including my former Bishop who was just called as a counselor in the Stake Presidency.
 
This makes me wonder if the good ol' boys' network is working in my favor! 
 Signature
Science is a way to call the bluff of those who only pretend to knowledge. If we’re true to its values, it can tell us when we’re being lied to. It provides a mid-course correction to our mistakes. - Carl Sagan


   


Posted: 04 March 2016 01:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
jellybean
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Joined  2011-02-19
 
  
 
Kind of creepy. I guess if any FB friends are mormon they could feel "inspired" to report your post somehow. 

   


Posted: 04 March 2016 02:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized
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So much for the 11th Article of Faith...
 
This is my revised version:
 
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God and Joseph Smith according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, unless they have the audacity to exercise that privilege in leaving the church, in which case they are evil apostates and we will disown, shun, disavow, disdain and disapprove of them in whatever way we choose. 
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You’re like the Gandhi of postmo. - Lloyd Dobler


   


Posted: 04 March 2016 02:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
Bruce A Holt
Jr. Member
RankRank
Joined  2014-04-03
 
  
 
Matter Unorganized:
So much for the 11th Article of Faith...
 
This is my revised version:
 
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God and Joseph Smith according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, unless they have the audacity to exercise that privilege in leaving the church, in which case they are evil apostates and we will disown, shun, disavow, disdain and disapprove of them in whatever way we choose. 
 
 To use a dated expression, "Word!"
 Signature
Science is a way to call the bluff of those who only pretend to knowledge. If we’re true to its values, it can tell us when we’re being lied to. It provides a mid-course correction to our mistakes. - Carl Sagan


   


Posted: 04 March 2016 04:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
jellybean
Member
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Joined  2011-02-19
 
  
 
Matter Unorganized:
So much for the 11th Article of Faith...
 
This is my revised version:
 
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God and Joseph Smith according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, unless they have the audacity to exercise that privilege in leaving the church, in which case they are evil apostates and we will disown, shun, disavow, disdain and disapprove of them in whatever way we choose. 
 
 Perfect.


   


Posted: 04 March 2016 05:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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Winyan
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I have an uncle who worked for church security. He said they keep files on anyone who says anything negative about the church. And they have eyes everywhere. So it's not surprising they found your comments online. 

   


Posted: 04 March 2016 08:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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Elder OldDog
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Winyan:
I have an uncle who worked for church security. He said they keep files on anyone who says anything negative about the church. And they have eyes everywhere. So it's not surprising they found your comments online.
 I wonder how many years I have left to add to my Permanent File?
 
 Signature


   


Posted: 04 March 2016 09:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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wesmanlv
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Elder OldDog:
Winyan:
I have an uncle who worked for church security. He said they keep files on anyone who says anything negative about the church. And they have eyes everywhere. So it's not surprising they found your comments online.
 I wonder how many years I have left to add to my Permanent File?
 
 
 such a cult. i'm so glad i am in a position to care less what they think of me


   


Posted: 05 March 2016 08:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
peace out
Long Timer
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Joined  2010-06-02
 
  
 
Bruce A Holt:
Here's my post:
 
 My Bishop texted me this morning to see if we could have a chat. I answered we could. He called.
 We made an appointment for Wednesday evening at 7:00 in the Bishop's office (he gave me my choice). He, the Stake President, and our Area Seventy are concerned about my public post, most particularly the part where I stated I believe Joseph Smith was a fraud.
 They wonder if I would consider retracting that statement.
 Since it was the singular reason for my disaffection, rather than mundane things like sin or being offended, I won't be retracting anything. But, we'll have our appointment on Wednesday. 
I searched my list of friends and none are Ward or Stake members. There are a few from my prior Ward in Texas (we're now in Colorado) including my former Bishop who was just called as a counselor in the Stake Presidency.
 
This makes me wonder if the good ol' boys' network is working in my favor! 
 
 Im proud of you


   


Posted: 05 March 2016 08:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
Avatar
WinstonSmith
Long Timer
RankRankRankRankRank
Joined  2011-09-26
 
  
 
Bruce,
 
Here is my advice (having recently met with my SP and A70):
 
- Control the dialog and be very respectful
 
- Make this about them, JS and the Church; not about you or your FB post
  
- Go into a deep discussion about the general definitions of words like: Fraud, Censorship, Honesty (see church gospel topics definition), Truth, "Aiding and Abetting", "Primary Source Documents", Hearsay)
 
- ask them if they support the U.S. Constitution, specifically the 1st Ammendment Rights. if they answer yes, then ask them: "How can you answer yes, and in good conscience ask me to take down my FB post?"
 
- Tell them that you would be happy to comply with their wishes to take down the FB post if they can show you evidence from primary source church documents that you are incorrect (reminding them of the definition of fraud, aiding and abetting).
 
- If they testify to you, testify back---don't state conjecture, but simply testify of the facts (i.e. I know that Emma wrote this; I know that... state only the primary source church documents.
 
- If you are threatened with a disciplinary council; remind them how serious the potential out come of such a council is---make sure that they understand that a creditable "Council" would require all 12 High council to study each issue and the primary source church documents, objectively, that you have used to reach your conclusions---for them to do otherwise is to mock god, and "god will not be mocked". I would even ask them their opinion if they believe there to be consequences for claimed men of god to errantly strip Eternal Salvation from a person because they were too prideful to even look at the issues and primary source church documents?
 
I could go on, but you get the idea. you will have them spinning and they will not know what hit them.
 
Again - Control the dialog 
 
BTW - Do you know which A70 you will be meeting? 
 Signature
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”  -Marcus Aurelius


   


Posted: 05 March 2016 09:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
Bruce A Holt
Jr. Member
RankRank
Joined  2014-04-03
 
  
 
WinstonSmith:
Bruce,
 
Here is my advice (having recently met with my SP and A70):
 
- Control the dialog and be very respectful
 
- Make this about them, JS and the Church; not about you or your FB post
  
- Go into a deep discussion about the general definitions of words like: Fraud, Censorship, Honesty (see church gospel topics definition), Truth, "Aiding and Abetting", "Primary Source Documents", Hearsay)
 
- ask them if they support the U.S. Constitution, specifically the 1st Ammendment Rights. if they answer yes, then ask them: "How can you answer yes, and in good conscience ask me to take down my FB post?"
 
- Tell them that you would be happy to comply with their wishes to take down the FB post if they can show you evidence from primary source church documents that you are incorrect (reminding them of the definition of fraud, aiding and abetting).
 
- If they testify to you, testify back---don't state conjecture, but simply testify of the facts (i.e. I know that Emma wrote this; I know that... state only the primary source church documents.
 
- If you are threatened with a disciplinary council; remind them how serious the potential out come of such a council is---make sure that they understand that a creditable "Council" would require all 12 High council to study each issue and the primary source church documents, objectively, that you have used to reach your conclusions---for them to do otherwise is to mock god, and "god will not be mocked". I would even ask them their opinion if they believe there to be consequences for claimed men of god to errantly strip Eternal Salvation from a person because they were too prideful to even look at the issues and primary source church documents?
 
I could go on, but you get the idea. you will have them spinning and they will not know what hit them.
 
Again - Control the dialog 
 
BTW - Do you know which A70 you will be meeting? 
 
 I met with my SP and the A-70 last July. The A-70 was Brent J. Hillier, recently called as MP of the Salt Lake East Mission (yes, he's the A-70 for us in Greeley, CO as well as the MP of a Utah mission - busy guy). I've figured there would come a day of reckoning and it seems it is here now.
 
Thanks for your suggestions! It seems we are of the same ilk. I controlled the conversations with them in prior conversations and will continue to do so in future conversations.
 
I also record them!
 
The bottom line for me is that I have no fear of them. They seem to fear me a little.
 
 Maybe they should! 
 Signature
Science is a way to call the bluff of those who only pretend to knowledge. If we’re true to its values, it can tell us when we’re being lied to. It provides a mid-course correction to our mistakes. - Carl Sagan


   


Posted: 05 March 2016 11:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]   

   
 
Avatar
John E. Baker, III [was GraciesDaddy]
Long Timer
RankRankRankRankRank
Joined  2008-11-15
 
  
 
Matter Unorganized:
So much for the 11th Article of Faith...
 
This is my revised version:
 
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God and Joseph Smith according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, unless they have the audacity to exercise that privilege in leaving the church, in which case they are evil apostates and we will disown, shun, disavow, disdain and disapprove of them in whatever way we choose. 
 
 We NEED a "Like" button!  
 Signature
The above post is the perspective and experience of a Never-Mo offered in support of the members of PostMormon.org and should be treated as such.


   


Posted: 06 March 2016 07:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]   

   
 
Avatar
WinstonSmith
Long Timer
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Joined  2011-09-26
 
  
 
Bruce A Holt:
WinstonSmith:
<snip> 
 
<snip>
I also record them!
 
The bottom line for me is that I have no fear of them. They seem to fear me a little.
 
 Maybe they should! 
Do you openly record, or are they unaware?
 
When honest about the true history of the Church, there is a lot to fear, and I understand why Church leaders fear people like you. They are faced with a conundrum of epic proportions, and they cannot win.
 
My experience with Church leadership, since I have made my lack of piety known, has been interesting. Most bishops and SPs are accustom of having passive members in their office who accept "pray, pay and obey" answers. Once Mormon leaders are confronted by people with well thought out questions, arguments and dialog, outside Mormon vocabulary, they freeze up. It is like trying to run MS Windows 10 on an old 486---their processors just are not compatable.
 
 Signature
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”  -Marcus Aurelius


   


Posted: 06 March 2016 10:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]   

   
 
Avatar
Jon Marshall
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Joined  2012-08-22
 
  
 
I have been outed many times through myself and through others. My Bishop is great. I don't think he really wants to have any sort of discussion. He has tried to set up appointments, but i just blow them off by saying NO. The Stake Presidency has also called, i said NO. I just don't feel like having to say my thoughts when all they will do is fall on deaf ears.  So why go through the motions.
 
Enjoy your talk, let them squirm and try to LOVE with Threats.
 
 
 Signature http://www.jonathankmarshall.blogspot.com


   


Posted: 06 March 2016 11:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]   

   
 
Avatar
evil_archer
Long Timer
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Joined  2007-06-08
 
  
 
wesmanlv:
Elder OldDog:
Winyan:
I have an uncle who worked for church security. He said they keep files on anyone who says anything negative about the church. And they have eyes everywhere. So it's not surprising they found your comments online.
 I wonder how many years I have left to add to my Permanent File?
 
 
 such a cult. i'm so glad i am in a position to care less what they think of me
 
 
I feel the same way, plus I resigned years ago, so legally, I'm not a member even if they dragged their feet briefly acknowledging it. There's nothing those in leadership can do about someone who isn't even a member who calls it a cult.
 Signature
I’m proud to be a B.I.T.C.H (Being In Total Control of Herself)


   


Posted: 07 March 2016 05:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]   

   
 
Bruce A Holt
Jr. Member
RankRank
Joined  2014-04-03
 
  
 
WinstonSmith:
Do you openly record, or are they unaware? 
 
My smartphone is placed out in the open. If they ask, I say nothing but I do show them what apps I have open.
 
I will have to admit here that the app I use for recording is not an obvious "recorder", so there is that...
 
It pays to be a geek, even an old one! 
 Signature
Science is a way to call the bluff of those who only pretend to knowledge. If we’re true to its values, it can tell us when we’re being lied to. It provides a mid-course correction to our mistakes. - Carl Sagan


   


Posted: 07 March 2016 05:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]   

   
 
Bruce A Holt
Jr. Member
RankRank
Joined  2014-04-03
 
  
 
Jon Marshall:
I have been outed many times through myself and through others. My Bishop is great. I don't think he really wants to have any sort of discussion. He has tried to set up appointments, but i just blow them off by saying NO. The Stake Presidency has also called, i said NO. I just don't feel like having to say my thoughts when all they will do is fall on deaf ears.  So why go through the motions.
 
Enjoy your talk, let them squirm and try to LOVE with Threats.
 
 
 
I am certainly tempted to tell them, "No." Not out of fear, mind you. It's because the meetings are fruitless and seldom turn out in my favor. But, I get a bit of a perverse pleasure out of watching them squirm. My Bishop, on the phone, just couldn't quit repeating, "But you called Joseph a fraud. Can't you just retract that?" He was just plain and simply incredulous.
 
Oh, well! I'm sorry about his luck! 
 Signature
Science is a way to call the bluff of those who only pretend to knowledge. If we’re true to its values, it can tell us when we’re being lied to. It provides a mid-course correction to our mistakes. - Carl Sagan


   


Posted: 07 March 2016 06:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]   

   
 
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Elder OldDog
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Hahahaha! 
 
In court, "truth is a defense."  That's what courts are for, proving truths! 
 
I have never heard, "belief is a defense, " like in a case involving charges against JW parents who let a child die by refusing a blood transfusion.   
 
Silly rabbits...  I mean mormons.  
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Posted: 07 March 2016 07:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]   

   
 
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incawhite
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John E. Baker, III [was GraciesDaddy]" date="1457199705"]
Matter Unorganized:
So much for the 11th Article of Faith...
 
This is my revised version:
 
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God and Joseph Smith according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, unless they have the audacity to exercise that privilege in leaving the church, in which case they are evil apostates and we will disown, shun, disavow, disdain and disapprove of them in whatever way we choose. 
 
 We NEED a "Like" button!  
Matter Unorganized:
So much for the 11th Article of Faith...
 
This is my revised version:
 
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God and Joseph Smith according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, unless they have the audacity to exercise that privilege in leaving the church, in which case they are evil apostates and we will disown, shun, disavow, disdain and disapprove of them in whatever way we choose. 
 
 We NEED a "Like" button!  
 
Yes, we need a "like" Button! 
 
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Has Crossed Over To The Side Of Evil  
Posted: 06 March 2016 07:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
Strong Free & Thankful
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Anytime a religion causes a person to think that taking care of the religion (god) is more important than taking care of family or one’s own needs, that religion has crossed over to the side of evil.  A god of goodness would never ask for such.
 
~Me
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I laughed out loud and said “Thank you sir. And I hope every time you hear the name of JS you don’t think about him having sex with those girls and the women who were already married because if you’re going to start being honest with yourself then sooner or later you will also realize a real god would never do that, a real prophet would never do that, and it’s all just bull shit.”
Oh mercy, it just felt so damn good to say that.  —BOLD WISH


   


Posted: 07 March 2016 05:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Strong Free & Thankful:
Anytime a religion causes a person to think that taking care of the religion (god) is more important than taking care of family or one’s own needs, that religion has crossed over to the side of evil.  A god of goodness would never ask for such.
 
~Me
 
Two thumbs up!  
 
Pay your tithing before your rent/mortgage, health, home or auto insurance, debts, feeding your children, car payment, student loan.... and you will be blessed - with eviction, foreclosure, cancellation of insurance, bankruptcy and hungry kids.
 
Bullshit.  
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Posted: 07 March 2016 09:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Celestial Wedgie
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Decades ago I was in a Fast and Testimony meeting in a new ward and had a mix of revulsion and laughter when a woman stood to tell about her "sacrifice." She loved genealogy, she said, but it was her daughter's birthday and so she opted to "spend this day with the living" instead of taking care of records for the dead.
 
 
 
Yep, crossed over the line into evil.


   


            
 
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Elder Bill Shunn... link to a great true story
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Mormonism is basically a religion about sex
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Mitt Romney dissing Trump after courting him for contributions previously? Typical Mormon lack-of-INTEGRITY!!!
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What is it with the GA's?
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lds church growth  
Posted: 07 March 2016 09:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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LostInParadise
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Hopefully I attached the graphs correctly. This post is maybe for the more nerdy types like myself.
 
My catalyst to apostasy was trying (innocently) to find info about how fast the church was growing, when I made the happy "mistake" of clicking on something not produced by lds inc.
 
Anyway, it continues to be a point of curiosity, so after finding this the other day, I combined it with this and this to try to get an updated picture of the situation.
 
It appears that the following are true:
-The growth rate has slowed from about 4.5% in 1970 to about 2% in 2014
-The number of active members worldwide is about 5 or 6 million
-It doesn't appear that lds inc subtracts resigned or excommunicated members from their membership totals*
-Not surprisingly, children of record (COR) are included in membership totals, even though they are not members, and regardless of whether they are later baptized or self-identify as members. COR account for a good third of the church's growth rate.
-The spike in full-time missionaries has not contributed to growth**
-1999 was apparently a miraculous year. If I account for the increase in membership, new children of record, and convert baptisms, I get a negative death/attrition rate.* Which can only mean 8,500 members were resurrected and are walking among us, posing as mere mortals. No doubt they are here to usher in the 2nd coming. 
 
Any corrections, input or links to other resources would be appreciated. Someday I'd like to fill in the data going back as far as possible.
 
*Previous year membership + new children of record + convert baptisms - current year membership = attrition/death rate. From 1995 to 2014, this rate averages 0.5%, compared to 0.8% death rate in the US and worldwide. If I could get my hands on some good resignation/excom or member death stats, it might clarify this item.
 
**2013 and 2014 saw the highest number of full-time missionaries EVER, and yet 2014 had the lowest OFFICIAL reported growth in the period of 1970-2014.
Adding 24,000 to the 2012 missionary force for 2 years increased convert baptisms by 24,000/year in 2014. So the annual convert growth is a 1:1 ratio with missionary force growth.
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“I asked him why he had left the church. He said something about science. I don’t know, perhaps he was offended.” o_O
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by Celestial Wedgie
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by Celestial Wedgie
PoMo ecovillage?
by Rmyth
Somebody outed my FB post to my Bishop, SP and A70.
by incawhite
Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series March 6th 2 PM- MORONI AND THE SWASTIKA
by Matter Unorganized
Wrote to the Paper
by Strong Free & Thankful
Trump ?
by Denker
New movie "The Witch" now in theaters is a creepy but interesting movie re: religion
by WinstonSmith
St. Judas the Traitor 1st Ward - Meetup - Sunday, March 6th, 10:00am at Harmons (Draper, UT) - ***New photo at bottom of thread***
by BITE ME
Elder Bill Shunn... link to a great true story
by CorbinBrodie
Eliza Snow
by Elder OldDog
Mormonism is basically a religion about sex
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Mitt Romney dissing Trump after courting him for contributions previously? Typical Mormon lack-of-INTEGRITY!!!
by Kevin2
Romney & Neo-cons hate Trump because "he didn't belong to a secret society"-Newt Gingrich
by Winyan
What is it with the GA's?
by Celestial Wedgie
Portland Monthly Ex-Mormon Meetup - Mar. 13
by LessMon
Ex-ing gay couples?
by CorbinBrodie
The Talk
by maynardg
Endured a Visiting Teaching message to the bitter end
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2015 Conference
"LEAVING A LEGACY"
October 16-18
Doubletree Suites
SLC, Utah




















 


Financial Report for 2011 to Date

Financial Report for 2010 to Date

Financial Report for 2009

Twin Falls Newspaper Article

Twin Falls Billboard

Financial Report for 2009 to Date




The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
[Sound Thinking]

Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
[Peep Stone!]

Native American DNA
[Post-Mormon Mag.]



 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (3/6)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
 Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series- March 6th, 2016 Author Dave Nelson
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
Open House Meetup: 3/19/16
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
Train ride and picnic Meetup: 2/27/16
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series February 7th, 2016- Joe Rawlins
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
SF Bay Area Super Bowl Party (Feb 7)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
Jan 10th, 2016-Southern Utah PostMormons will present an outstanding lecture combo
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
New Year's Eve Party
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (1/3)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (12/6)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
Southern Utah Post Mormon Association to meet December 6th at the Red Lion in St. George
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
Christmas Party ~ Diamond Head Area
[Oahu Post Mormon ...] 


Book of Mormon Tories
by Chris Sexton 
Why I am a Better Mother
by antipsicótica 
Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by Barney 
Resignation Letter to My Family
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
former victim

The Book of Mormon Musical comes to South Carolina!
Swearing Elder

Resignation Letter to My Family
INRETROSPECT

Resignation Letter to My Family
oneanother

Utah County CALM meetup for November
BlackSheep2

FACEBOOK INFO
Crissy

FACEBOOK INFO
Barn

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
Starfleet

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
alvie

Why I am a Better Mother
by aworkinprogress 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
exmoinaz

SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
owned

The Mormon Mask
by Born Free 
Las Vegas Meetup--Jazz in the Park Saturday May 10 6:30PM
onendagus

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Guru Busters
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Guru Busters
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Resignation Letter to My Family
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Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
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Native American DNA
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Somebody outed my FB post to my Bishop, SP and A70.
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Has Crossed Over To The Side Of Evil
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Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series March 6th 2 PM- MORONI AND THE SWASTIKA
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Wrote to the Paper
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An Australian Orchid Presents Intelligent Design Supporters With Huge Dilemna
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New movie "The Witch" now in theaters is a creepy but interesting movie re: religion
by WinstonSmith
St. Judas the Traitor 1st Ward - Meetup - Sunday, March 6th, 10:00am at Harmons (Draper, UT) - ***New photo at bottom of thread***
by BITE ME
Elder Bill Shunn... link to a great true story
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Eliza Snow
by Elder OldDog
Mormonism is basically a religion about sex
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Mitt Romney dissing Trump after courting him for contributions previously? Typical Mormon lack-of-INTEGRITY!!!
by Kevin2
Romney & Neo-cons hate Trump because "he didn't belong to a secret society"-Newt Gingrich
by Winyan
What is it with the GA's?
by Celestial Wedgie
Portland Monthly Ex-Mormon Meetup - Mar. 13
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Ex-ing gay couples?
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2015 Conference
 "LEAVING A LEGACY"
 October 16-18
 Doubletree Suites
 SLC, Utah





















 


 
Financial Report for 2011 to Date

 
Financial Report for 2010 to Date

 
Financial Report for 2009

 
Twin Falls Newspaper Article

 
Twin Falls Billboard

 
Financial Report for 2009 to Date





 
The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
 [Sound Thinking]
 
Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
 [Peep Stone!]
 
Native American DNA
 [Post-Mormon Mag.]



 
  SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (3/6)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
  Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series- March 6th, 2016 Author Dave Nelson
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 Open House Meetup: 3/19/16
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 Train ride and picnic Meetup: 2/27/16
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series February 7th, 2016- Joe Rawlins
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Super Bowl Party (Feb 7)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Jan 10th, 2016-Southern Utah PostMormons will present an outstanding lecture combo
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
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 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (1/3)
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 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Southern Utah Post Mormon Association to meet December 6th at the Red Lion in St. George
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 Christmas Party ~ Diamond Head Area
 [Oahu Post Mormon ...] 




Book of Mormon Tories
by Chris Sexton 
Why I am a Better Mother
by antipsicótica 
 Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by Barney 
Resignation Letter to My Family
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
former victim

The Book of Mormon Musical comes to South Carolina!
Swearing Elder

Resignation Letter to My Family
INRETROSPECT

Resignation Letter to My Family
oneanother

Utah County CALM meetup for November
BlackSheep2

FACEBOOK INFO
Crissy

FACEBOOK INFO
Barn

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
Starfleet

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
alvie

Why I am a Better Mother
by aworkinprogress 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
exmoinaz

SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
owned

The Mormon Mask
by Born Free 
Las Vegas Meetup--Jazz in the Park Saturday May 10 6:30PM
onendagus

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Resignation Letter to My Family
Hbush1987

General Non-Conference: Palmetto State Session
Swearing Elder



 

       
   

  

Home



Our Community
























































































































































Our Library



















Our Exit Stories
 

Member Options














     

    
 


  


 
 Introduction
 For New Visitors
 Mission Statement
 The Best of PostMormon.org
 























  
 


 
 


 
 


 
 


 
 
 


The mission of PostMormon.org is to provide and maintain systems that facilitate the growth and development of a safe and supportive community for those who leave or are considering leaving the Mormon Church.

Welcome home!











































    
  
 


Our next project
will be announced soon.

Tax exempt status.
 




Celestial Wedgie
dave (e_nomo)
Jeff Ricks
Kevin2
 Logged in: 4
 Not logged in: 73
 Logged in anonymous: 0




(Joined in last 24 hours)
 
Total members: 10208 

   
 
PoMo ecovillage?
by Rmyth
Somebody outed my FB post to my Bishop, SP and A70.
by incawhite
Has Crossed Over To The Side Of Evil
by Matter Unorganized
Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series March 6th 2 PM- MORONI AND THE SWASTIKA
by Matter Unorganized
Wrote to the Paper
by Strong Free & Thankful
An Australian Orchid Presents Intelligent Design Supporters With Huge Dilemna
by Born Free
Trump ?
by Denker
New movie "The Witch" now in theaters is a creepy but interesting movie re: religion
by WinstonSmith
St. Judas the Traitor 1st Ward - Meetup - Sunday, March 6th, 10:00am at Harmons (Draper, UT) - ***New photo at bottom of thread***
by BITE ME
Elder Bill Shunn... link to a great true story
by CorbinBrodie
Eliza Snow
by Elder OldDog
Mormonism is basically a religion about sex
by shunn
Mitt Romney dissing Trump after courting him for contributions previously? Typical Mormon lack-of-INTEGRITY!!!
by Kevin2
Romney & Neo-cons hate Trump because "he didn't belong to a secret society"-Newt Gingrich
by Winyan
What is it with the GA's?
by Celestial Wedgie
Portland Monthly Ex-Mormon Meetup - Mar. 13
by LessMon
Ex-ing gay couples?
by CorbinBrodie
The Talk
by maynardg
Endured a Visiting Teaching message to the bitter end
by LostInParadise
I'm New - Just met with my Bishop - Not a good experiance
by MishMagnet

 http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/home




 





2015 Conference
 "LEAVING A LEGACY"
 October 16-18
 Doubletree Suites
 SLC, Utah





















 


 
Financial Report for 2011 to Date

 
Financial Report for 2010 to Date

 
Financial Report for 2009

 
Twin Falls Newspaper Article

 
Twin Falls Billboard

 
Financial Report for 2009 to Date





 
The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
 [Sound Thinking]
 
Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
 [Peep Stone!]
 
Native American DNA
 [Post-Mormon Mag.]



 
  SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (3/6)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
  Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series- March 6th, 2016 Author Dave Nelson
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 Open House Meetup: 3/19/16
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 Train ride and picnic Meetup: 2/27/16
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series February 7th, 2016- Joe Rawlins
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Super Bowl Party (Feb 7)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Jan 10th, 2016-Southern Utah PostMormons will present an outstanding lecture combo
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 New Year's Eve Party
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (1/3)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (12/6)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Southern Utah Post Mormon Association to meet December 6th at the Red Lion in St. George
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 Christmas Party ~ Diamond Head Area
 [Oahu Post Mormon ...] 




Book of Mormon Tories
by Chris Sexton 
Why I am a Better Mother
by antipsicótica 
 Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by Barney 
Resignation Letter to My Family
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
former victim

The Book of Mormon Musical comes to South Carolina!
Swearing Elder

Resignation Letter to My Family
INRETROSPECT

Resignation Letter to My Family
oneanother

Utah County CALM meetup for November
BlackSheep2

FACEBOOK INFO
Crissy

FACEBOOK INFO
Barn

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
Starfleet

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
alvie

Why I am a Better Mother
by aworkinprogress 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
exmoinaz

SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
owned

The Mormon Mask
by Born Free 
Las Vegas Meetup--Jazz in the Park Saturday May 10 6:30PM
onendagus

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Resignation Letter to My Family
Hbush1987

General Non-Conference: Palmetto State Session
Swearing Elder



 

       
   

  

Home



Our Community
























































































































































Our Library



















Our Exit Stories
 

Member Options














     

    
 


  


 
 Introduction
 For New Visitors
 Mission Statement
 The Best of PostMormon.org
 























    
 

Click the above icon to go to The Community Discussion Forum, which is the most active area on this website. New members are encouraged to jump in and participate in the discussions. As you do, our House Rules ask that you remain courteous and respectful of others.
  
 
 
Click the above icon to visit our World Map where you can connect with other Post-Mormons in your area. If your part of the world doesn't have a map pin, please consider starting a chapter or becoming an official PostMo' contact person for your area. To find out how, click here and follow the instructions.
  
 
 
Clicking this icon will take you to a page in our Post-Mormon Scrapbook, that lists personal accounts of people who have left Mormonism. Many new members love reading these accounts because it helps them realize that there really are others out there who understand, and can relate to their experience.
  
 
 
The Post-Mormon Community relys on donations from people like you to continue its public awareness program. Whether you can contribute $5, $5,000, or more, you are helping us reach out to others like you, but who still think they are all alone. The Post-Mormon Community is a 501(c)(3) tax exempt organization.
  
  
  


















































    
  
 


Our next project
will be announced soon.

Tax exempt status.
 




Celestial Wedgie
dave (e_nomo)
Jeff Ricks
Kevin2
 Logged in: 4
 Not logged in: 73
 Logged in anonymous: 0




(Joined in last 24 hours)
 
Total members: 10208 

   
 
PoMo ecovillage?
by Rmyth
Somebody outed my FB post to my Bishop, SP and A70.
by incawhite
Has Crossed Over To The Side Of Evil
by Matter Unorganized
Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series March 6th 2 PM- MORONI AND THE SWASTIKA
by Matter Unorganized
Wrote to the Paper
by Strong Free & Thankful
An Australian Orchid Presents Intelligent Design Supporters With Huge Dilemna
by Born Free
Trump ?
by Denker
New movie "The Witch" now in theaters is a creepy but interesting movie re: religion
by WinstonSmith
St. Judas the Traitor 1st Ward - Meetup - Sunday, March 6th, 10:00am at Harmons (Draper, UT) - ***New photo at bottom of thread***
by BITE ME
Elder Bill Shunn... link to a great true story
by CorbinBrodie
Eliza Snow
by Elder OldDog
Mormonism is basically a religion about sex
by shunn
Mitt Romney dissing Trump after courting him for contributions previously? Typical Mormon lack-of-INTEGRITY!!!
by Kevin2
Romney & Neo-cons hate Trump because "he didn't belong to a secret society"-Newt Gingrich
by Winyan
What is it with the GA's?
by Celestial Wedgie
Portland Monthly Ex-Mormon Meetup - Mar. 13
by LessMon
Ex-ing gay couples?
by CorbinBrodie
The Talk
by maynardg
Endured a Visiting Teaching message to the bitter end
by LostInParadise
I'm New - Just met with my Bishop - Not a good experiance
by MishMagnet

 http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/home




 





2015 Conference
 "LEAVING A LEGACY"
 October 16-18
 Doubletree Suites
 SLC, Utah





















 


 
Financial Report for 2011 to Date

 
Financial Report for 2010 to Date

 
Financial Report for 2009

 
Twin Falls Newspaper Article

 
Twin Falls Billboard

 
Financial Report for 2009 to Date





 
The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
 [Sound Thinking]
 
Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
 [Peep Stone!]
 
Native American DNA
 [Post-Mormon Mag.]



 
  SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (3/6)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
  Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series- March 6th, 2016 Author Dave Nelson
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 Open House Meetup: 3/19/16
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 Train ride and picnic Meetup: 2/27/16
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series February 7th, 2016- Joe Rawlins
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Super Bowl Party (Feb 7)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Jan 10th, 2016-Southern Utah PostMormons will present an outstanding lecture combo
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 New Year's Eve Party
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (1/3)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (12/6)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Southern Utah Post Mormon Association to meet December 6th at the Red Lion in St. George
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 Christmas Party ~ Diamond Head Area
 [Oahu Post Mormon ...] 




Book of Mormon Tories
by Chris Sexton 
Why I am a Better Mother
by antipsicótica 
 Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by Barney 
Resignation Letter to My Family
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
former victim

The Book of Mormon Musical comes to South Carolina!
Swearing Elder

Resignation Letter to My Family
INRETROSPECT

Resignation Letter to My Family
oneanother

Utah County CALM meetup for November
BlackSheep2

FACEBOOK INFO
Crissy

FACEBOOK INFO
Barn

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
Starfleet

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
alvie

Why I am a Better Mother
by aworkinprogress 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
exmoinaz

SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
owned

The Mormon Mask
by Born Free 
Las Vegas Meetup--Jazz in the Park Saturday May 10 6:30PM
onendagus

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Resignation Letter to My Family
Hbush1987

General Non-Conference: Palmetto State Session
Swearing Elder



 

       
   

  

Home



Our Community
























































































































































Our Library



















Our Exit Stories
 

Member Options














     

    
 


  


 
 Introduction
 For New Visitors
 Mission Statement
 The Best of PostMormon.org
 

 Post-Mormons are members of a rapidly growing community of families and individuals who have voluntarily left Mormonism. We choose to no longer base our lives, and the lives of our children, on "truths" dictated by others. We believe that truth is freely available to any honest, diligent seeker regardless of creed, age, race or sexual orientation.

     
We have felt the butterfly’s metamorphosis. Forces that well up from within have compelled us to grow beyond the limits of Mormonism. And so we have become a loosely knit community of friends and support groups, and endeavor to help those like us who also feel the need to explore meaning, purpose and life beyond Mormonism. We celebrate the wonderful diversity of life as we experience as fully as we can our physical and cultural reality. We perceive ourselves as part of a human tapestry that is rich beyond our ability to comprehend, and wonder at this miracle. We have come to realize that there are more ways to do good, and be good, than we can number. What we once perceived as the “strait and narrow way” has broadened to include all ways that promote individual and collective well-being.
 We do not apologize for our inability to fully understand reality or the nature of our own existence. As Albert Einstein said:

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed."

 Some ask if we are anti-Mormon. Our answer is, no, we are not. We feel we are not because we acknowledge and want to keep all the good that came into our lives through Mormonism. We feel we are not because it's not our purpose to encourage people to leave the Church. We feel we are not because many of our family and friends are Mormons and we certainly are not anti-family and friends. But as an organization, we are open about the Church's misrepresentations and the way in which its dogmatism and authoritarianism have proven detrimental to many individuals, families, and communities. As Winston Churchill once said, "Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things."
 We do not advocate another form of Mormonism or any other religion and believe that loving one's neighbor begins with giving up the claim to have special access to truth. We feel that arrogance attends the illusion of “knowing the truth” and that such arrogance leads to a narrow-minded tribalism that impedes personal growth and fosters a divided community. Some of us choose to continue their spiritual journey through traditional religious means and others of us identify ourselves as atheistic or agnostic. We respect these choices as we do those of the well-informed among our family and friends who choose to remain traditional Mormons. We feel sad for those who choose ignorance of any kind and strongly disagree with the few within Mormonism who encourage ignorance and spread misinformation.
 Life is wonderful. We are overcome by feelings of gratitude for the glimpses we occasionally have of its majesty and mystery. And we revel in the opportunity to connect with each other and those of many other walks of life in ways more satisfying than anything we had previously experienced. We would welcome the opportunity to get to know you and invite you to join in the conversation in The Community Forum on this site.
 Sincerely,


  
 


 
 


 
 


 
 


 
 
 


















































    
  
 


Our next project
will be announced soon.

Tax exempt status.
 




Celestial Wedgie
dave (e_nomo)
Jeff Ricks
Kevin2
 Logged in: 4
 Not logged in: 73
 Logged in anonymous: 0




(Joined in last 24 hours)
 
Total members: 10208 

   
 
PoMo ecovillage?
by Rmyth
Somebody outed my FB post to my Bishop, SP and A70.
by incawhite
Has Crossed Over To The Side Of Evil
by Matter Unorganized
Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series March 6th 2 PM- MORONI AND THE SWASTIKA
by Matter Unorganized
Wrote to the Paper
by Strong Free & Thankful
An Australian Orchid Presents Intelligent Design Supporters With Huge Dilemna
by Born Free
Trump ?
by Denker
New movie "The Witch" now in theaters is a creepy but interesting movie re: religion
by WinstonSmith
St. Judas the Traitor 1st Ward - Meetup - Sunday, March 6th, 10:00am at Harmons (Draper, UT) - ***New photo at bottom of thread***
by BITE ME
Elder Bill Shunn... link to a great true story
by CorbinBrodie
Eliza Snow
by Elder OldDog
Mormonism is basically a religion about sex
by shunn
Mitt Romney dissing Trump after courting him for contributions previously? Typical Mormon lack-of-INTEGRITY!!!
by Kevin2
Romney & Neo-cons hate Trump because "he didn't belong to a secret society"-Newt Gingrich
by Winyan
What is it with the GA's?
by Celestial Wedgie
Portland Monthly Ex-Mormon Meetup - Mar. 13
by LessMon
Ex-ing gay couples?
by CorbinBrodie
The Talk
by maynardg
Endured a Visiting Teaching message to the bitter end
by LostInParadise
I'm New - Just met with my Bishop - Not a good experiance
by MishMagnet


 http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/home