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3/15 WT- " Forget the Good Times you had Prior to being JW - Can't .........
by flipper 4 years ago 66 Replies latest 4 years ago   jw friends
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flipper
flipper 4 years ago

.......... trust your mind ! " Yes, they actually said this in a WT study article entitled, " Do Not Look at the Things Behind " . I swear the WT society writers and leaders are getting even MORE controlling and manipulative ! AS most of us here know most mind control cults try to diss or make members forget or put down any past they had before joining the cult. They tell members that NOTHING they did was valuable before becoming a Jehovah's Witness, Mormon, or Scientologist. The WT society is no different in this article in influencing JW's to think that way as well - as you will see. I'll share the most mind altering statements here.
On pg. 25 in this article paragraph 3 & 4 talks about how " selfish " Jesus considered one man to be who wanted to be his disciple but first return to his home to say goodbye to relatives. The article said, " that he ( Jesus ) knew that the man's request was merely an excuse to evade resonsibility. "  Maybe the man just wanted to say goodbye to his family ?  The article continued, " Either way he ( the man ) is distracted from what he should be doing, and his work may be affected negatively . Rather than turning our attention on the past , we must keep our eyes focused clearly on what is ahead. "
Then comes a doozy in paragraph 6. It states, " One distinct danger is a DISTORTED VIEW of the good old days. Our memory is NOT ALWAYS RELIABLE. We may unwittingly minimize the problems we had in the past and at the same time EXAGGERATE THE JOYS , making it SEEM that things were a lot better than they really were.  This DISTORTED recollection can cause us to long for the good old days. " Translation : If you had happy, good times before becoming a JW don't dwell on it , you were really out of your mind and distorting everything you thought as a " worldly " unbeliever. In my opinion the only thing DISTORTED here are the WT clowns who write this information.
In paragraph 10 WT society attacks your pre-Witness days again ! They state, " When faced with difficulties and problems, let us not fixate on what MAY APPEAR to have been POSITIVE things in the past - perhaps even before we came to a knowledge of the truth. Although it is not wrong to meditate on the lessons we have learned from past experiences or SAVOR CHERISHED MEMORIES  , we need to maintain a balanced, realistic view of the past. Otherwise, we could accentuate our dissatisfaction with our present circumstances and be tempted to return to our former life. " Translation : ANY experiences you may have had , even positive ones before becoming a JW - don't get too sentimental or attached to them because they WERE NOT REAL ! They were distorted , unrealistic and not balanced ! Even the positive ones ! We CANNOT learn anything from your pre-Witness days - you had NOTHING of value before you became a Jehovah's Witness ! In my opinion the only thing NOT of value is this distorted crappy WT society counsel telling JW's they were all idiots before becoming Witnesses ! Good lord.
Then comes the clincher in paragraph 11. The WT society personally attacks JW's view of earning a living, yet if you know of JW celebrities who donate millions to the WT society and are STILL approved associates - you'll see the hypocrisy in these statements. It states, " Sad to say, some look back on sacrifices they made in the past and view them as missed opportunities. Perhaps you had opportunities for higher education , for prominence, or for financial security, but you decided not to pursue them. Many of our brothers and sisters have LEFT BEHIND lucrative positions in the fields of business, entertainment, education, or sports. ( NO THEY HAVEN"T ! Think Prince, Serena & Venus Williams, Jackson family, etc. ) Now time has passed , and the end has not yet arrived. Do you fantasize about what could have happened had you not made those sacrifices ? ( Hell yes I fantasize about it ! I could be wealthy by now like the people I just mentioned who ARE JW's ! )  Translation : If you are a rank & file JW who doesn't donate a lot of $$$$ to the Kingdom interests you nEED to leave behind any fantasy's you had or aspirations of being wealthy or successful ! If you ARE already wealthy and successful and contributing your wealth to the WT society, it's O.K. though . Jehovah understands you are using your " worldly treasures " to promote Kingdom interests ( i.e. WT society interests ) .
Then they quote the apostle Paul claiming that worldly treasures he considered to be " refuse " or garbage. Then the WT states, " Just as a person who throws away garbage, or trash , ( in case you didn't know what garbage IS  ) does not later bemoan his loss, Paul did not regret ANY of the secular opportunities that he had left behind. "  I'm speechless. Translation : Any career that would have made you wealthy or comfortable financially is garbage, worthless. Throw it away and be happy you did- don't regret it.
O.K. So that's it. I hope you enjoyed this little WT study telling JW's they are insane for remembering positive pasts, should look at ANY wealth they have as garbage, and that their memnories are distorted and cannot be trusted. The control and deceptive manipulation of JW's in this article is astounding. As always I look forward to your takes, observations and comments on this what I consider to be " mentally abusive garbage ". Take care, have a great weekend ! Peace out to all, Mr. Flipper
 
baltar447
baltar447 4 years ago

They REALLY have jumped the shark lately!
This article smacks of desperation. They have lost control and thus are losing it. I only hope MANY people are waking up and smelling the BS!
 
N.drew
N.drew 4 years ago

That's not new stuff. It's reworked over and over. So I was offered one set of magazines since I left the org. I said "there's nothing new in there". No thanks!

Funny rendition though flipper! Did it really say "trust your mind"? Like OMG when will they say something new and refreshing?
 
00DAD
00DAD 4 years ago

Steven Hassan, in his book Releasing the Bonds, explained it this way, sharing his personal experience:

When the cult identity takes over, a person's past is redefined and often distorted. After Moon recruiters convinced me to divulge a few painful experiences in my childhood ..., the group magnified the negatives and minimized the positives of my past. My cult identity was taught to suppress good experiences and exaggerate painful ones. - (pps. 187 - 188) Emphasis added
 
00DAD
00DAD 4 years ago

It's almost seems like the Writing Committee studies books like Steven Hassan's and uses them as instruction manuals on how to manipulate and control the minds of their followers!
Imagine two guys in Brooklyn having this conversation ...

GB1: Hey Joe, I was just reading this book by this Steven Hassan fellow ...
GB2: Yeah, what's it about?
GB1: It's all about manipulation and mind control.
GB2: Sounds interesting, but should you be reading that?
GB1: Absolutely! It seems we missed a few tricks here.
GB2: Really? Like what?
GB1: Check it out. Here on page ....

And as the next WT and/or Awake! goes to press the "refined" teachings of the WTBTS have found "New Light" regarding how to control their sheeples!
I'm just sayin' is all!
00DAD
 
flipper
flipper 4 years ago

Thanks for the responses.
BALTAR 447 - Exactly Baltar. I think the WT society are losing their $hit. Losing their control over many JW's. So desperate times demand desperate measures in being even MORe controlling !
N. DREW- Essentially they said not to " trust their minds " when they said that JW's have , " distorted views of the past and their memories are not always reliable. " They are telling JW's they cannot trust their thinking.
00DAD- Thanks for sharing that quote from Steve Hassan's book. It definitely shows that JW's are a cult and the WT society tries controlling what members feel about their past lives. Really twisted. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
 
shamus100
shamus100 4 years ago

Mr. Flipper,
For goodness sakes, don't look back! >:O Remember the wife of lot!!!! If you look back who knows what kind of spice god will turn you into. Maybe paprika. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
 
00DAD
00DAD 4 years ago


shamus100: If you look back who knows what kind of spice god will turn you into. Maybe paprika. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
Could be worse! My wife is Hungarian and uses paprika in almost all of her native dishes!
Who knows Shamus, we could be having you for dinner: Paprikás majom
 
tornapart
tornapart 4 years ago

Looks to me like they are realising there are some very unhappy JWs out there who are regretting the sacrifices they made (believing they were making those sacrifices for God).
 
00DAD
00DAD 4 years ago

tornapart, With all due respect, you are completely wrong on this point. Jehovah's Witnesses are the Happiest People on Earth!
Do you know how I know? They tell us so!
The Watchtower claims Jehovah's Witnesses are the happiest people on earth. Although there are never any statistics provided to support such an outlandish claim it MUST BE TRUE because the WT says so!!!


Watchtower 1999 10/1 p. 8 par. 13
Of course, the fact that Jehovahs servants "weep" over the sorry state of world affairs does not preclude their being happy. On the contrary! They are actually the happiest group of people on earth.
Watchtower 1999 10/1 pp.6-7
Although Christians "weep" because of world conditions ... they are actually the happiest people in the world
Watchtower 1997 May 1 p.23
The messengers of godly peace are the happiest people on earth today
Watchtower 1995 Jan 15 p.12 par. 7
Our close relationship with Jehovah makes us the happiest people on earth.
Watchtower 1993 May 1 p.21 par. 24
Such loving labors have made the slave class the happiest people on earth today, and they have made millions of other people happy too
Watchtower 1989 Mar 1 p.3
In fact, as a group, they are the most privileged, the most successful, and by far the happiest group on earth today, as you will see in the next article.
Watchtower 1988 Mar 1 p.17
Indeed, in every country, Jehovahs people are the best and the happiest!
Watchtower 1975 Feb 1 p.92 par. 21
The happiest people on earth are Jehovahs people and they are chiefly among the poor as concerns the things that the world prizes highly
Watchtower 1971 Sep 15 p.564 par. 22
All who seek a place in the redeemed society of mankind thereby come into association with the happiest people on earthJehovahs witnesses. These are the only people who know for a certainty where they are going.
Watchtower 1962 Sep 1 p.530 par. 22
In the New World society of Jehovahs witnesses you find people from all walks of life, many of whom lack diplomas from mans centers of learning; yet these people know the Bible, they are teachers. They accept with eagerness the obligation of teaching others Gods Word. They do it year after year with the same love of God and appreciation for spiritual food as when they first tasted it. They are the happiest and most peaceful persons on earth.
Watchtower 1960 Feb 1 p.74 par. 17
Now Jehovahs witnesses are blessed above all others because they are the happiest, most peaceful and contented people on earth
Kingdom Ministry Feb 2002 p.1 par. 1 The Happiest People on Earth
"Happy is the people whose God is Jehovah!" (Ps. 144:15) Those words describe Jehovahs Witnesses as the happiest people on earth.
Kingdom Ministry Feb 1994 p.5 par. 16
We are the happiest people on the face of the earth, knowing that on becoming approved we will receive the crown of life.Jas. 1:12.


Thanks to jwfacts.com for providing these happifying references!!!



 
tornapart
tornapart 4 years ago

00DAD Well.. I suppose if they keep telling them often enough...... strange though the way they keep repeating it.....like some kind of mantra....we are happy.. we are happy... we are happy...we are happy.........
Nope.. hasn't worked yet....try a bit harder....
 
baltar447
baltar447 4 years ago

Be Happy, Be Happy!

Be Joyful, Be Joyful!

Omg I realized this song in my head the other day something is seriously fucked up if you have to be TOLD to be happy dammit! LOL
 
00DAD
00DAD 4 years ago

TA: Well I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you are not happy, ... the problem must be you!
◦YOU must need to pray more!
◦YOU must need to read the Bible more!
◦YOU must have some secret sin
◦YOU must spend too much time on the internet visiting:◾Apostate websites
◾Social media
◾The home shopping network
◦YOU must read more Bible Based Publications
◦YOU must go out in service more
◦YOU must confess your sins to the elders
You see, if YOU are not happy it is clearly YOUR FAULT, because ...... (wait for it) ...... Jehovah's Witnesses are the Happiest People on Earth!
We know that's true because it says so over and over and over and over again in the pages of the WT, Awake! and other Bible Based Publications lovingly provided to you by the FDS and it's GB!
God wants you to be happy because he is the Happy God! (1 Tim. 1:11).
And if that doesn't make you happy, then he is going to kill you at Armageddon. Until then, please try and have a nice day.
00DAD
 
breakfast of champions
breakfast of champions 4 years ago

My brain is sore just trying to follow the mental gymnastics suggested in this article!
What it reveals, though, are the true thoughts and feelings of "the happiest people on earth" : they are pissed off, bitter, broke, tired.
Also appreciate 00DAD's Hassan quote. Perfect.
 
finally awake
finally awake 4 years ago

I was so "happy" when I was a JW that I had to take 2 antidepressants just to function. Oddly, when I quit taking the meds due to the side effects, I started to realize something was rotten in the organization and I ended up inactive. Now I'm totally out, and I'm happier than I've ever been
 
00DAD
00DAD 4 years ago


baltar447: something is seriously fucked up if you have to be TOLD to be happy dammit! LOL
Yes, it reminds me of when I was a kid and my dad tried to get me to eat some suspicious-looking and unappetizing food. He would yell at me and say, "You're going to eat it and you're going to like it whether you like it or not!"
 
tornapart
tornapart 4 years ago

00DAD.. think I'd rather be put in a straight jacket....
 
tornapart
tornapart 4 years ago

Baltar.. you're so right!! How can you be TOLD to be happy? :confounded:
 
LongHairGal
LongHairGal 4 years ago

FLIPPER: Once again, a great thread from you. I feel the religion is threatened by people's good memories before they joined the religiom. And, by the way, anybody who considers anybody's career as being "worthless" had better NOT be looking to that person for money. That person's money should be no good. Right? I assume this article is not directed to born-ins but those who joined in adulthood and who have a "life" before the religion that they can compare with the one after they joined. Of course, no intelligent person really thinks the "good old days" were a trouble-free paradise. But, the sad fact is that many people's lives become very hard after they join the religion. They may want to get rid of that load of bricks! Whatever happened to Christ' "light load"? The religion wants to stem the tide of people who want to leave the religion by making them engage in mental trickery, in my opinion.
 
00DAD
00DAD 4 years ago

tornapart: think I'd rather be put in a straight jacket....
That's a good comparison, the mind-control games this religion plays with people is tantamount to a psychological straight-jacket.
 

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3/15 WT- " Forget the Good Times you had Prior to being JW - Can't .........
by flipper 4 years ago 66 Replies latest 4 years ago   jw friends
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OUTLAW
OUTLAW 4 years ago

 ..................... ...OUTLAW
 
00DAD
00DAD 4 years ago

Can always count on the OUTLAW for an incisive comment!
 
tornapart
tornapart 4 years ago

That's funny!! ROFL!!
 
just Ron
just Ron 4 years ago

Yes they are the happiest people on earth. If you are the elietest gb or bthelite you live in a nice place have food clothing and every thing you need. Provided buy the people that have to go out in the real world and deal with all the S$&^@ every day so the ones that write this S#*$ are happiest people on earth.

Now that I'm not suporting them I have more money and my whole family is happy. Can't beat that with a stick.

great one outlaw

Ron
 
therevealer
therevealer 4 years ago

Only ever spent two weeks at bethell, but I am convinced the cost of having that kind of free room and board could be debilitating.
 
N.drew
N.drew 4 years ago

For goodness sakes, don't look back! >:O Remember the wife of lot!!!! If you look back who knows what kind of spice god will turn you into. Maybe paprika. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

LOL!!! Good one!!
Garlic, I'm sure of it! Me, not you. You can be paprika if you want to.
 
yourmomma
yourmomma 4 years ago

as more and more of these articles are printed, i agree less and less with ray franz that they are simply "victims of victims". the writers of these articles are skilled at propaganda. they have to know what they are doing.
 
tornapart
tornapart 4 years ago

You're right yourmomma.. and by their own words they've said it.. I printed off the Awake 8/22 1978 article on propaganda.. they know exactly what it is!!
 
breakfast of champions
breakfast of champions 4 years ago

YOURMOMMA - great point! Was thinking that myself.
 
scary21
scary21 4 years ago

Just reminds me of (I think it was the book Sign Of The Last Days ). They talk about how people DO look at the past as the good old days. Everything was soooo wonderful, no crime, leaving doors unlocked ect. ect..........Then it brings out the reality.........people even eating their own children....and on and on.......the GB is agreeing that the good old days weren't THAT good, but that's not what they say in OTHER articles.......crime is on the rise (NOT )........things are worse than ever, times are bad bad BAD. Before 1914 times were sooooooo good. right... lol........Another case of speaking from both sides of their mouth.
The bottom line is don't think......Only we can think.......Think only what we tell you to think. If we tell you past times were great....think that.......If we say your past times weren't great, Think that.
Just keep saying it.........Life before being a JW was horrible....I am now happy, I am now happy, I am now happy....happy.....happy ....happppppppy la la la la

Sherry
 
3rdgen
3rdgen 4 years ago

Great thread Flipper. Totally agree with all the comments!
Outlaw, Hahahahaha I left my brain rotting in that coatroom for almost 60 years. I'm doing my best to remve the cruddy build up.BTW, do you think that dizzy chick gave me back the right one?????
 
00DAD
00DAD 4 years ago


3rdgen: do you think that dizzy chick gave me back the right one?????
Doesn't matter. Either way, it was hardly ever used and is almost as good as new!!!
 
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 4 years ago

I think the WT society are losing their $hit. Losing their control over many JW's. So desperate times demand desperate measures in being even MORe controlling !
OH OH! Look for future WT articles warning on the danger of independent thinking! [Check your brain here! -- Outlaw]
DOC
 
3rdgen
3rdgen 4 years ago

00Dad, You're not kiddin'. Thinking is giving me a headache.
 
Mary
Mary 4 years ago


"....Sad to say, some look back on sacrifices they made in the past and view them as missed opportunities. Perhaps you had opportunities for higher education , for prominence, or for financial security, but you decided not to pursue them. Many of our brothers and sisters have LEFT BEHIND lucrative positions in the fields of business, entertainment, education, or sports. Now time has passed , and the end has not yet arrived. Do you fantasize about what could have happened had you not made those sacrifices."
Oh dear. Is there trouble in paradise? Are the rank and file waking up from their stoopified state and realizing that they've been had? Are they looking at their parents' generation and thinking "mom and dad believed Armageddon was coming in their day and they believed it so much that they never paid into a pension, never owned a home and never got anything more beyond a Grade 10 education. I don't want to end up like them so screw what the Organization says, I'm buying a house and getting an education."
Since the Writing Department is notorious for coming out with bullshit articles that minimize the ever-growing problems within the Borg itself, this one really smacks of desperation. You've got brothers and sisters in their 50s or 60s who specifically did not go to university because they were promised that there was no need for it and that there were only a few years left in this System before all our problems would be solved with a sprinkling of pixie-dust. These people are now facing retirement, they've got nothing saved, work at dead-end jobs (assuming they even have a job), and guess what? Armageddon's no closer now than what it was 40 years ago. And people are getting angry that they gave up a chance for a decent life, because a billion dollar book publishing company in New York told them to.
Do these bozos really think that people aren't going to look back and regret the decisions they made? My father's pension is half of what it should have been, because he was specifically told by his local gestapo, not to pay into his company pension plan because "Armageddon will be here loooong before you retire!" That was in 1950. Anyone think he doesn't regret the fact that he only started paying into after 1975??
Several years ago, the District Overseer (that smug, self-righteous jackass, Ernest Pandachuk) was giving a talk at the assembly when he said "Brothers; if you knew 40 years ago that Armageddon wouldn't be here by now, would you do things differently? Well you shouldn't feel that way brothers!" My father was furious and said after that that's the closest he's ever come to getting up, walking out and never going back. During the lunch break, he and some of his contemporaries got together and started talking about it. They were all pissed off and one of them said "What's he trying to do? Drive us out of the truth? Of course we'd do things differently!"
And if the morons at Crooklyn are reading this, here's a little tidbit for you: The grumblings and complaining you hear now from the rank and file, is only going to get worse. I hope you're prepared for lawsuits and god knows what else, from the next generation of Witnesses that you plan on screwing over.



 
tornapart
tornapart 4 years ago

The 'Children' book came out in the 40's that practically told them they shouldn't even marry! Because the 'end' was too close.... I think most JWs know by now that taking any notice of this kind of thing is stupid... perhaps more are 'waking up' gradually. I wonder how many actually believe that Armageddon is 'just round the corner'?
 
metatron
metatron 4 years ago

And one more thing you people haven't mentioned about recent Watchtower lies:
What about Witness perception of present events? Not long term memories?
Look, you dumb Watchtower apologists reading this ! There are many Witnesses who will not admit to seeking a college degree, the operative phrase is " I just attend a few classes" and know about classmates. And there are still a few who know what's going on in their extended families, at least via Facebook. Or they know about 'worldly associates' (you're not allowed to call them friends) and their lives.
So, Watchtower, when you lie to them about how wonderful and happy Witness life is, compared to these, you are signaling these Witnesses that YOU CANNOT BE TRUSTED. It isn't always a matter of long distant memories.
Don't worry about the strident braying of these asses. It will not end well for them
metatron
 
nugget
nugget 4 years ago

It has to be said that if you are happy in life you do not look back at the past wishing you had done things differently or feel regret. This nostalgia takes place when you are dissatisfied and unhappy.
This article seems to be stating that witnesses in general are miserable with their lot and as such may have feelings of regret and dissatisfaction about the choices they made. They could have pointed out to their readers how much more satisfying their lives are now and fulfilling and that nothing the world offers can compare. The fact that they haven't is very telling since they are acknowledging that they have not made lives better just harder. Because they cannot hold up what they offer as a shinning light they are instead trashing past lives, ambitions and achievements and calling them garbage to make them appear worthless in comparison.
Telling people living on the breadline, doing menial work because they sacrificed everything to the society to be happy that they haven't made the most of their opportunities is an insult. The society had the opportunity to influence people for the better and to encourage people to use their talents constructively and yet they squander their people daily. Happiness comes from inner contentment and cannot be commanded.
 
cantleave
cantleave 4 years ago

This Article is so true. I was born in the cult. I will never look back fondly - it was all BS! I look forward to what is to come, free of the mind controlling shitfest!
 
metatron
metatron 4 years ago

nugget, I think you're on to something. Perhaps their endless cheerleading is failing to elicit the obedient response they lust for.

metatron
 

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Topic Summary
.......... trust your mind !
" yes, they actually said this in a wt study article entitled, " do not look at the things behind " .
i swear the wt society writers and leaders are getting even more controlling and manipulative !



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3/15 WT- " Forget the Good Times you had Prior to being JW - Can't .........
by flipper 4 years ago 66 Replies latest 4 years ago   jw friends
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flipper
flipper 4 years ago

Thanks for all the replies ! Been busy cleaning house and the yard so I'll reply to pg. 1 first then come back later for pg. 2.
00DAD- I believe one time somebody who had been at Bethel DID put a thread up about how the WT society Writing committee actually has Harvard or Madison Avenue type marketing or advertising professionals come in and assist in the ideas of how to present the WT articles to make them more catchy. By the way- you and your wife will have to cook for me and my wife some day. I love paprika in food. Love spicy food. The WT society always tells JW's that if they doubt something WT society teaches that THEY must have the problem. Most cults do that trying to shift the blame to the followers and the attention away from the cult leaders. WT society does it as well.
SHAMUS- Monkeys like hot & spicy food ??
TORNAPART- I imagine the WT society is getting TONS of mail and TONS of phone calls as well as reports from Circuit Overseers that MANY JW's are exhausted and tired of giving up careers and lives for the WT society's behalf. I can only imagine the negative feedback going back to Bethel. I mean - what do the WT leaders expect ? Jesus Christ.
BALTAR 447- Exactly. How can we FORCE someone or tell someone to b happy if they aren't ? Yet the WT society expects JW's to feel that way, even if it's fake.
BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS- I agree- JW's are pissed off, broke, and tired . And probably tired of being deceived and duped with false promises as well ! It really IS exhausting looking at these articles and the mind games the WT Writing committee puts people through reading it. I was really pissed off at the WT leaders after writing this thread. And exhausted . Of course- I'm always pissed off at the WT leaders. What else is new ? LOL !
FINALLY AWAKE- I agree with you . I'm happier than I've ever been as well the last 8 years since I left the organization. Isn't it amazing the lack of pressure and tension we feel once we exit the Witnesses ? It's like a ton of bricks is lifted off of your shoulders !
LONG HAIR GAL- Thanks. I agree with you. I think WT leaders have ALWAYS felt threatened by the memories that Witnesses have of their pre-Witness life so that's why the WT leaders try so hard to make JW's FORGET the past so they can control them more in the present. And you are correct- the truth is that EVERYBODY'S life becomes harder once they join the Witnesses ! More demands are put on their time and assets and there is more control exerted on rank & file JW's lives. And the WT society is very manipulative in the words they use in this article in how they control Witnesses. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
I'll be back to answer pg. 2 in awhile. Gotta get back to work, more to do. Thanks !
 
carla
carla 4 years ago

I know when my jw first joined up his memory was severly affected! It was downright frightening to me. He did not seem to remember many things from our past. It was as if the wt sucked the memories right out of his brain or there were memories he still had but wished he didn't because those were in his evil sinful non jw days. Not to diminish anyone suffering from alzheimers but I could understand what loved ones go through when one is diagnosed with that terrible disease because my jw appeared to have some sort self/cult induced selective alzheimers. It was scary as hell at the time.
Now? after many years in the cult the memories resurface and often with warm affection. Guess the wt can't win all the time, sometimes the heart is stronger than the cult.
 
life is to short
life is to short 4 years ago

Thank you so much for this post flipper. For the first time in about six months I actually listened to this CD of the WT. I was so upset as I was listening while I was driving, I realize I have to quite even listening. I was hoping you would post something as I was so upset to even try to write something that made any sense to explain the crazyness of it.
You have said it all so well thank you, it just makes my blood boil the crap that they say.
LITS
 
flipper
flipper 4 years ago

OUTLAW- Love your brain check cartoon. Really funny !
JUST RON- I hear you. It irritates me that the GB and WT leaders at Bethel have everything handed to them on a silver platter. They have no idea what it's like to earn a REAL living like most normal people in the world. I'm glad I don't donate anymore either. Been out 8 years. I never donated much anyway.
THE REVEALER- I'm sure it does cost a lot to keep Bethel running. But it's not too much for the WT society a billion $$$ corporation who relies on slave labor to keep it running.
YOURMOMMA- Very good point you make which I agree with. I've been saying the same thing for a long time. The WT society leaders are NOT "victims of victims " , they are VERY skilled at manipulation, control, and the pushing of propaganda. They know EXACTLY what manipulation they are pulling on JW's. It's really wicked and evil. They are trying to steal away JW's freedoms on purpose.
TORNAPART- Exactly. The WT leaders know EXACTLY what they are doing in a manipulative way.
BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS- Yep. WT leaders know the deception they are pulling.
SCARY 21 - Good point you make. The WT society tells JW's what to think, how to feel, and controls their every move. If the WT society tells JW's their lives were horrible before being JW's then they have to look at it that way, otherwise they are considered rebellious . It's ridiculous the amount of control WT leaders have.
3RDGEN- Thanks. Don't feel bad about your brain rotting in the Witnesses for 60 years. You aren't alone. My brain rotted for 44 years then I finally got out. We just have to be relieved that we finally got out in time. Gotta enjoy our life now !
DESIROUS OF CHANGE- Exactly. WT society is getting nervous they are losing control of JW members. I'm sure more articles will come forth warning about " independent thinking ".
MARY- Very true. The WT society IS losing control of it's people. So as Steve Hassan said in his books cults get more aggressive in screwing down the control measures as they get more desperate in holding onto members. I feel that's what we are seeing here with the WT society indeed. That's interesting your JW dad is getting frustrated about the two timing WT society. Hopefully he'll leave the Witnesses, you think ? I agree with you- I think we are going to see a lot of lawsuits against the WT society in the next 5 years or so whether it's child abuse, blood transfusions, or slander - I think it's reached a tipping point where many JW's or ex-JW's aren't going to take it anymore being treated unjustly.
TORNAPART- It's amazing how controlling the WT society has been through the years and how much they've gotten away with ! If young people followed the advice not to marry in the early 1940's - no one would ever have had kids ! I hope more JW's are waking up to the fact they better not follow the WT society's advice- but the ones I know are more mind controlled than ever !
METATRON- I agree, the WT society insults the intelligence of ALL JW's and creates the insecurities in the witnesses so much it destroys their self esteem. And I agree- it won't turn out well for the WT society leaders.
NUGGET- As Steve Hassan mentioned in his books most cults like the WT society cannot deliver on the promises to their members. There will never be a " paradise " . So as you say the WT society trashes the Witnesses chances of pursuing a career by putting down the earning of a living and continues giving JW's a " fake " promise of a fantasy " paradise " as a carrot in front of them to keep them duped, deceived, and hooked into their scam.
CANTLEAVE- I hear ya my friend. I don't have good memories either of being a JW. I was scammed like you and everyone else. Such bastards the WT leaders are. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
 
flipper
flipper 4 years ago

CARLA- Wow. That is really something. So it seems the WT society actually sucks the memory right out of JW's brains according to what happened to your husband ! I agree ! I've seen it happen in my JW relatives. It's crazy ! It's like jW's get " selective amnesia " where they lose their authentic personality and lose much of their empathy for other people , friends, and relatives. I'm glad your husband hasn't lost all of his caring personality towards you- otherwise it would be tough for you to take for sure !
LIFE IS TOO SHORT- Thanks. It makes my blood boil as well when I think of how controlled my JW family is from all of this WT " garbage propaganda" which pollutes their authentic minds and turns them into programmed robots ! Yeah, I'm sure listening to that CD really is annoying for sure ! I think you are right, best to not listen to it anymore. Why make yourself upset and anxious and stressed out ? It's stressing enough for you and me to have to deal with the JW relatives we both have ! LOL ! Hang in there sis. You're doin' good. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
 
hoser
hoser 4 years ago

Mary said:

Several years ago, the District Overseer (that smug, self-righteous jackass, Ernest Pandachuk) was giving a talk at the assembly when he said "Brothers; if you knew 40 years ago that Armageddon wouldn't be here by now, would you do things differently?
 
scooterspank
scooterspank 4 years ago

Thankfully I have a hard time remembering being in that crap!!! Apparently my mother is going with their idea and forgetting what life was like out.  (apologies, I'm in a very pissy mood tonight, she's like a stranger to me now).
 
finally awake
finally awake 4 years ago

Lately I've been feeling like my brain has turned to Swiss cheese. Just ROn will mention something that happened, and I won't remember it at all. I've even noticed that I don't remember things at work like I used to. I guess I had to learn how not to retain anything in order to keep from noticing the inconsistencies and flipflopping in doctrine. I feel like I've lost 50 points off my IQ thanks to the Borg.
 
no more kool aid
no more kool aid 4 years ago

Since I was a born-in I have no good memories of the past or the good old days. I can only look back in horror that I gave my entire childhood and half of my adulthood to a cult. Is that the devil controlling my thoughts again? I have had a great time the last four years that we have been out........there I go again, so mentally diseased that I can't even trust my own thoughts. LOL NMKA
 
flipper
flipper 4 years ago

HOSER- I liked Mary's quote as well from that insane District Overseer. I think most of us here would have done things A LOT differently if we knew 40 years ago what we know now- that Armageddon is an unreality and the WT society just used it as a marketing tool to keep us and 7 million JW's controlled through fear . We'd all have lived our lives VERY differently.
SCOOTERSPANK- I know how you feel having a parent who is so blinded by the mind control of the WT society. Both my parents have been JW's for over 60 years - now in their mid 80's. They are just as mind controlled as they always were. It's frustrating but you know what ? At least you and I got out of the Witnesses and we have our freedom of mind and thinking. That's something to be happy about !
FINALLY AWAKE- Yeah, it takes some time for us to get our critical thinking ability back after exiting the Witnesses. So be patient with yourself. It took me several years to start thinking with an open mind and getting all my authentic, non-Witness brain cells back . LOL ! You will do fine. Just keep reading information like Steve Hassan's two books on Mind Control and it will really help you to think clearly again. I'm sure you know the titles of his books but if not they are : " Combatting Cult Mind Control " & " Releasing the Bonds - Empowering People to Think for Themselves " . Excellent reads and I highly recommend it for any of us exiting the Witnesses.
NO MORE KOOL AID- Believe me, if you've been out of the JW's for 4 years, you're able to trust your thoughts now. Especially if you haven't been to meetings. But that's why books like Steve Hassan's two books were so helpful to me as it helped me to see a different way of thinking and making my brain operate . Once we get out of the Witnesses any information that helps us to think authentically and clearly in our brains without WT cult influence is definitely a good thing ! I know how you feel though. I was born in the JW's and exited 8 years ago after 44 years from birth inside the org. But the last 8 years have been the happiest, most fulfilling years of my life ! I think free, I live free, and I love life in the here and now - which I wasn't allowed to do inside Jehovah's Witnesses. They always told us we had to wait until the " paradise " to be happy- which was a lie. We can be happy now. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
 
wha happened?
wha happened? 4 years ago

Must be a commen lament from inactive ones. Life was easier when everything didn't have a label
 
flipper
flipper 4 years ago

WHA HAPPENED- Indeed you are correct. Life was surely easier when everything didn't have a label. Good point. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
 
Butterflyleia85
Butterflyleia85 4 years ago

I am just overly shocked an have a lil anxiety as to how long it will be before Jehovah's Witnesses see that they are being CONTROLED by men!!
 
wha happened?
wha happened? 4 years ago

not according to them. They have holy spirit guiding the men who are controlling them
 
Butterflyleia85
Butterflyleia85 4 years ago

It just doesn't seem fair... :frowning:
Why can't there be a legel rule that any organization needs to inform their members the true and only the true when committing to their organization... like written documents and stuff... and be in trouble when with holding valuble information for their own good (mentally and physically).
 
wha happened?
wha happened? 4 years ago

it's a private club.
 
designs
designs 4 years ago

They know we gave up our youth, higher education, humanitarian and social concerns for them. They know we are pissed and they know we are Activists.
We are silent no more.
 
ziddina
ziddina 4 years ago

Marking...
Another great thread by Flipper!!
 
InterestedOne
InterestedOne 4 years ago

Here's another thought on the relationship between this article and Steven Hassan. I do think the writers know about and are targetting a basic idea Hassan presents in his advice on helping cult members to wake up: namely, accessing the pre-cult personality. The article sows uncertainty and doubt in the mind of the cult member for the occasion(s) when he/she might tap into the pre-cult personality. The article looks to me like a preemptive measure - the WT's own attempt to combat the combatting of cult mind control.
 
WTWizard
WTWizard 4 years ago

OK, so I will "forget" the good times I had despite being a witless. Knowing that there is a bias toward remembering the good things in the past, I will just remember all the times I didn't feel like being out in field circus but had to go anyways because I was expected to be out there. Never mind the illusion of joy from seemingly learning new things and doing new things. That was rubbish.
Rather, I will stay focused on the times when they tried to keep me in field circus long after quitting time. Like intentionally scheduling calls that I had to go on for 2:55 PM when they knew I had to work that night and wanted to go in at 3 PM, and then intentionally pushing that call for more than half an hour. Or, the "just one more won't hurt" repeated 15 or more times. I will also stay focused on the times when they tried to choreograph every movement to what they expected--not to go ahead of the group or drop behind, each foot placement exactly as they wanted, wearing certain colors of shirts and suits, and so on. No matter it is almost 40 o C and quite muggy.
And, the "just meet men" rules at a$$emblies. That eliminated any potential for good experiences at those wastefests. The roast beef sandwiches and frozen pudding, I will try to minimize because I might be biased into putting too many "joy points" on these things. Better I make them myself (or something better). Also, the travel--by comparing those wasted trips to similar trips made before becoming a witless on an objective basis, I will realize that any "joy" from making the trips as a witless were minimal. Since I am comparing a past event with another past event, the "pro-joy" bias will be the same for both, canceling each other out. Left will be the drudgery of going to something, sitting there all day for no good reason, only to be allowed nothing but other men.
Versus now. Take Christmas--back then (in the "pro-joy" bias), I had to dread Christmas. When the lights went up, I had to avoid looking at them lest I enjoy them. Christmas music was something to dread. I would worry about the Christmas music starting--at first, I was hoping Armageddon would cut them off. Later, I realized that it was probably not coming any time soon. These days, I actually like most of the Christmas songs (even if I don't agree with the religion, I still believe Jesus died trying to free us from Jehovah). And I enjoy looking at, and rigging up, Christmas displays I used to dread even thinking about. That, in that area, it is better in the "negative bias" present than it was in the "positive bias" past, should debunk the whole thesis that forgetting the past is the whole answer.
 

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Topic Summary
.......... trust your mind !
" yes, they actually said this in a wt study article entitled, " do not look at the things behind " .
i swear the wt society writers and leaders are getting even more controlling and manipulative !



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3/15 WT- " Forget the Good Times you had Prior to being JW - Can't .........
by flipper 4 years ago 66 Replies latest 4 years ago   jw friends
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Snoozy
Snoozy 4 years ago



This could also apply to leaving the Jehovah Witness religion. They made us feel like we were nothing without them..how wrong they were/are!!!
Snoozy,
 
ziddina
ziddina 4 years ago

Flipper: "I liked Mary's quote as well from that insane District Overseer...."
Mary: "Several years ago, the District Overseer (that smug, self-righteous jackass, Ernest Pandachuk) was giving a talk ..."
I liked the name Mary gave to that smug, self-righteous jackass, myself...
Although I think I would have called him "Ernest Buzzardupchuk", instead...
 
flipper
flipper 4 years ago

BUTTERFLYLEIA- The mind control in Jehovah's Witnesses is VERY strong and a JW isn't able to SEE that they are mind controlled until they perhaps suffer injustices from elders or JW power figures, or unless they as JW's get away from attending mind controlling meetings which spew this garbage into their minds- until then they are controlled beyond recognition.
And you are right- I agree- it isn't fair the WT society keeps JW's in the dark about whats required of them or that they manipulate them with information. But the WT society is like all big corporations in the country right now- many of them are manipulative and use underhanded tactics to control members. It should be illegal you are right. It's criminal.
WHA HAPPENED- Exactly. It is a private club.
DESIGNS- I agree with you. One reason the WT society is getting so aggressive in bashing outsiders is because we as ex-Witnesses ARE making inroads into reaching lurking JW's to the real truth about the JW organization. We ARE activists and involved in helping people get their free minds back and freedom of thinking again. This scares the Bejesus out of WT leaders. Good. I hope they get REAL scared. I like being the boogie man if it frees people !
INTERESTED ONE- Interesting point you make how the WT society is trying to make JW's DOUBT their pre-cult or authentic personality as a coercive measure to control them by WT cult mind control. Interesting point. I think you're on to something.
WT WIZARD- WT society all they wanted to do was make JW's eat, sleep, drink, and poop JW stuff 24/7 everyday of their lives. It was ridiculous. There was no way any of us could have a life as JW's. I'm glad many of us are free now. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
 
flipper
flipper 4 years ago

SNOOZY- Very good point you make with this quote. Losing ourselves and feeling we were not valuable was one of the the biggest crimes the WT society did to us. Make us doubt our own worth. Many of us have regained great self esteem after exiting the Witnesses. Very true what you wrote.
ZIDDINA- Thanks. Indeed that District Overseer was a real tool that Mary mentioned. Most of them are. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
 
flipper
flipper 4 years ago

Any comments or observations welcome, Peace out, Mr. Flipper
 
flipper
flipper 4 years ago

BTTT, Peace out, Mr. Flipper
 
flipper
flipper 4 years ago

Bumping up a couple of these threads for newer members who may have missed them or any lurking JW's. All comments welcome. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
 

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Topic Summary
.......... trust your mind !
" yes, they actually said this in a wt study article entitled, " do not look at the things behind " .
i swear the wt society writers and leaders are getting even more controlling and manipulative !



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Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo a month ago
Wonderment
How credible are NWT's critiques?: Allin and John 8:58. (2)
by Wonderment a month ago



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YOUTUBE VIDEO: Phonecall to the Watchtower regarding the Williams sisters
by kool aid man06 8 years ago 38 Replies latest 8 years ago   watchtower beliefs
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kool aid man06
kool aid man06 8 years ago

Rick Fearon calls the Watchtower concerning the tennis superstars Venus and Serena Williams in this two part YouTube video.
http://www.youtube.com/araretreat
 
JK666
JK666 8 years ago

Rick,
It says that the link is no longer available. Whassup?
JK
 
drew sagan
drew sagan 8 years ago

that guy is embarrassing
 
justhuman
justhuman 8 years ago

mmm....
 
Vita Splash
Vita Splash 8 years ago

I got it on the first try. Maybe it was busy when you tried?
 
Solace1998
Solace1998 8 years ago

works here
 
Vita Splash
Vita Splash 8 years ago

I have seen other video's fronm this guy and it just turns me off.
 
kool aid man06
kool aid man06 8 years ago

The second video is where the call to Watchtower takes place. Notice the "brother" does not want to use his name, as usual.
 
Nathan Natas
Nathan Natas 8 years ago

Well done, Rick! Keep it up!
"Here's how you can tell who the real pioneers are: they're the ones with the arrows in their backs."
 
Meeting Junkie No More
Meeting Junkie No More 8 years ago

Congrats to you for shining a spotlight on something I'm sure countless Witnesses 'in good standing' secretly wonder about.
The Watchtower thinks that by their dismissal or avoidance of any comments regarding this issue, the all-too-apparent contradiction between their 'supposed tenets' and their 'wealthier adherents' actual lifestyles will just be a non-issue. How wrong they are! I am sure this is leading more and more r&f to awaken to the glaring hypocrisy that is the WTBTS. By their failure to weigh in on the issue at all, they are just digging their own grave, slowly but surely.
I love the fact that you aren't afraid to use your own name, but they continue to hide behind the Tower...
 
yourmomma
yourmomma 8 years ago

Rick, do you think by now they have your name written down? I respect that you choose to be honest and upfront when you give your name, but when dealing with people who have no problem lying (theocratic warfare) i wonder if you would get farther if you didnt tell them your name? also, i would think they also may be able to recognize your number. anyway, keep up the good work.
 
kool aid man06
kool aid man06 8 years ago

There are some people who feel videos exposing the Witnesses don't help in really exposing what the Watchtower org. is-a dangerous and destructive cult. The facts are so many active Witnesses are watching the "video apostates". This summer the viewers of these videos are really increasing in numbers. I feel this is happening because of the district conventions. More and more Witnesses are curious to see what the "apostates" have to say in their videos. Just recently one of our videos entitled "Jehovah's Witness disfellowshipped" received over 100,000 views! People think in pictures, people remember in pictures,and people are moved to action in pictures. Videos work!
 
Gerard
Gerard 8 years ago

It took him 2 horrible videos to finaly place that lame phone call.
 
Lady Zombie
Lady Zombie 8 years ago

You know, it actually wouldn't surprise me if the brother didn't know anything about the Williams sisters. I mean, Prince supposedly is a JW now and you don't hear much about that.
I just remember when he first announced it along with the statement that he was going to clean up some of his songs. After that, not much more was said.
At any rate, 'no comment' stances are common with the bOrg.
 
wha happened?
wha happened? 8 years ago

Did this guy just exchange one podium for another
 
jefferywhat
jefferywhat 8 years ago

I agree with wha happened, he thinks he's still on the school,complete with poorly timed gestures and boring as f*#k rhetocal questions. Who cares about those girls, seriously, If you want to dent a tank, don't shoot a .22 Lame
 
yourmomma
yourmomma 8 years ago

i personally like his videos. the guy is going out and doing something. he also represents the average one time elder, he dresses and looks like your local elder. the only difference is he learned the truth and is helping people to wake up. i used to not like what rick did, but the more i watch his stuff and listen to the conference call its clear to me that he is helping people wake up.
 
minimus
minimus 8 years ago

I liked it, KoolAidMan!
I give you credit. You are respectful, honest and factual.
YOU might not be everyone's fav, but methinks you do a lot more to expose the Society than most posters here.
 
Wasanelder Once
Wasanelder Once 8 years ago

With so many real issues, why pick something so "People" magazine-like? You sound more like a witness than the witnesses I had to endure on the platform on Sunday. I find it annoying and I think its a turn off. It sounds just about as sincere. W.Once
 
heathen
heathen 8 years ago

You would think they would have a press statement available on the williams girls and all celebrities outed as to their current status . All they have to do is contact the elders in their congregations to find out about judicial hearings . Clearly the Williams girls are not devout witnesses it doesn't mean they don't believe what the WTBTS says , I've known many people that just up and say I believe the witnesses but just don't want to be one . A very strange stand to make . The sports industry is all about greed and creature worship , I don't know how the WTBTS can just clam up over it ,it's obviously a distraction from all they believe in as far not being part of the world , all other witness wouldn't be allowed to go to the YMCA to play tennis and certainly not with the intent on winning but only for the exercise ,these people are on international TV playing high stakes games , promoting all sorts of commercial and worldly interests . I think the US army or marines are even part sponsor , at least in football they are.
 

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YOUTUBE VIDEO: Phonecall to the Watchtower regarding the Williams sisters
by kool aid man06 8 years ago 38 Replies latest 8 years ago   watchtower beliefs
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kool aid man06
kool aid man06 8 years ago

keep scracting your head wasanelderonce these issues are getting a lot of attention and connecting with active Witnesses. Why condemn something that is helping J.W.s to doubt the Watchtower.
 
Gayle
Gayle 8 years ago

I think a good number of JW kids would possibly see this that are denied to be in organized sports who are very inclined and wonder how some JW youth get to pursue sports. I know for a fact a lot of JW kids grew up and are resentful they were denied to play organized sports in school extracurriculars when they had the qualifications otherwise. It may not be an issue to some JWs or xJWs who were not inclined toward sports anyway. I think it was a good issue to bring to YouTube. Thank you, Rick.
 
Wasanelder Once
Wasanelder Once 8 years ago

let's see, if you put "Venus" and "Serena Williams" in your description you will get plenty of hits on your video, it has nothing to do with Watchtower curiosity. I agree that your other topics have been more pertinent. This subject just seems petty. I think it actually comes across as being picky and makes you look like a complainer. What you have done is show that the Watchtower DOES NOT MICROMANAGE the lives of Witnesses. They do not involve themselves in these personal choices. They do not come down with edicts from on high (Brooklyn) according to someone's conscience based decisions. This non-issue simply bolsters their credibility as advice givers and not micro-managers. It's just a red herring. You can and have done better than this is my point. Why not call the society about Larry Graham? or brother so and so from down the block who decides to play on the local adult flag football league? Not many hits on that one I'd venture. I've seen your protest videos Rick and they look more like born again fanaticism than measured, unpretentious factual presentations. I have no use for religion any longer, nor anyone who sets themselves up as an answer man for Jesus and Jehovah. We're not elders any more Rick and really, who cares that we were anyway? W.Once
 
Solace1998
Solace1998 8 years ago

because its flimsy, false, and its nearly as nitpicking and as fanatical as witnesses are.
<br><br>but thats your style, i guess :shrug:
 
Shawn10538
Shawn10538 8 years ago

I just can't believe anybody here would have a problem with this video. It is factual respectful and does a great service to the community at large pointing out the dangers of being in a cult and the clear double standards they have. I hope he gives us many more of these phone call videos. Thank you Rick! For everybody else, go back to sleep and continue doing nothing about this dangerous cult. We wouldn't want you to lift a finger or something.
 
Wasanelder Once
Wasanelder Once 8 years ago

"...everybody else, go back to sleep and continue doing nothing about this dangerous cult. We wouldn't want you to lift a finger or something." Just so you know I have 51 videos on my page exposing and having fun with the WT org.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Truthbookblues
What makes you think that any of us are obligated to do anything? It is our choice and our journey. I owe you nothing. You and Rick still have the Holy Crusade mentality. Have at it. People on a mission from God give me the creeps ever since I realized that such missions are the result of men alone. Rick is another man who likewise gives me the creeps. As I have said, I don't know him, I only know what I've seen in his videos and he seems to be the next preacher on the TV screen. If he gets people out of the org, great. If it is to join his church, ugh. He still claims to be annointed. My experience is that the annointed are Watchtower nutjobs. I mainly had a problem with this paparazzi robbing video. W.Once
 
Leolaia
Leolaia 8 years ago

I did an older thread on a professional boxer who was a JW:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/75736/1.ashx
I think it turned out that he was not baptized yet and would be quitting when he gets baptized. Do we know if in fact the Williams sisters are baptized? Could they have been reared and raised as JWs but never took the plunge (as I never did when I was a JW)? As such, they may not be subject to the same measures as a baptized JW (such as disfellowshipping). I am reminded of those in the old days who converted to Catholicism but waited until death or until they finished their career before they accepted baptism, fearing judgment for doing the things required by their career while being a baptized Christian. If the someone waits until their 30s to get baptized, everything pertaining to their career would lie in the past and all would be forgiven. Just wondering if that might play a role here. I think slimboyfat made the point earlier about people who consider themselves as JWs and who have it as their faith but who are not active publishers and therefore counted in the "official" statistics (but who might count in other polls, such as the Pew poll on religion).
 
worf
worf 8 years ago

kool aid man06,
I think that what you do is a good thing, and I'm glad that you found my topic on the Williams sisters to be of use in the opening words of your video.
What some may not realize is that no one is criticizing the Williams sisters for their own personal life, but the main point is to show that the watchtower is hypocritical, period, and therefore has no connection to any god.
Worf
 
MinisterAmos
MinisterAmos 8 years ago

Keep at it, I really can't imagine why some whiners are so against a public expose of the hypocrisy that defines the WatchTower. I have to wonder if some of the guys with 5,000+ posts are able to do it because they are in some dorm room in Brooklyn, and assigned to this site.
Holy Crap! Nude photos, waving the US flag, having a career that keeps them from meetings, and then publically associating themselves with the Witnesses? How much more of a "double life" could the sisters be leading?
BY all means please continue pointing out that the WTBS is only interested in controlling the masses, and has another standard of ethics for the elite.
 
What-A-Coincidence
What-A-Coincidence 8 years ago

outlaw got honorable mention ... lol
That's the thing...
Lawyers, Pro Sports, Higher Education ... if these somehow can advance kingdom interests, meaning $. Then it's fine. Double standard/double speak.
WAC: FORMER 9 YEAR U.S. BETHELITE AND ELDER ... INFORMATION SYSTEMS.
 
worf
worf 8 years ago

To those on this thread who have found some reason to criticize Kool Aid Man for the work he is doing and for his video about the Phone Call to the Watchtower regarding the Williams Sisters, give some thought to this:
When you apply wide-scope accounting to the Watchtower, the evidence,even from their own literature proves that they are responsible for:
A. The deaths of thousands of jw members (people) over the years from their promoted no-blood policy under pain of punishment from God and disfellowshipping if you went against it.
B. The raping, killing, murdering, torture, destruction of homes, businesses, and the running out of the country and detainment in internment camps for decades, of the Malawian jw members.
C. Destruction of families.
D. Suicides.
E. Deaths and living in sub-par health from their promoted no-transplant policy under pain of shunning and punishment from God if you went against it.
F. The living of a just-get-by life by their members because of their false end of the world prophecies, resulting in many members without any real financial back-up in their later years, "because this system of things was not supposed to still be here".
G. JW members with no college degree, so that they are less competitive in the job market and have less chances of procuring employment that pays better.
H. Tens of thousands of pedophile crimes, most of which still have not come to the light of the legal system.
I. Etc. etc. etc. etc. I could on and on to the letter Z and probably beyond with the outright cruelty and crimes against humanity that the Watchtower is responsible for.
Therefore, ANY expose's, including those by Kool Aid Man06 that help, or even possibly help,  to enlighten people about the Watchtower and keep them from being bamboozled out of their lives and money like most of us were, and that could assist in finally removing the Watchtower from the map of this planet, are good things.
Wide scope accounting people. Wide scope accounting .
Worf
 
Wasanelder Once
Wasanelder Once 8 years ago

A: The majority of those who refuse blood transfusions DO NOT DO SO BECAUSE OF ANY DISFELLOWSHIP sanction. It is the indoctrination that causes them to die for the lie. Don't confuse the issue. D: Debatable F: This is a choice people make on their own, they are not forced to live at sub poverty level. Only the devout do so, those with any brains don't fall for it. Wide scope accounting? I agree that attacking the most vulnerable spots is appropriate, its just this particular attack by Rick is irrelevant to most JW's. They view the Princes, the MJ's, the Williams' as simply "Jack" Witnesses who are accountable to God for their worldly ways. It doesn't expose anything about the Society and merely makes Rick look like he's nipping at the heels. Just my take anyway. Enough about this. You expose the Society your way and I'll do mine. Respectfully, W.Once
 
Solace1998
Solace1998 8 years ago

completely false and irrelevant.
just because there are these other issues, you think its okay to start bringin up flimsy issues that dont hold up to scrutiny?!?!
thats ridiculous, no offense.
It takes focus AWAY from the real issues, can you not see this? If and when (because its easy) people see through this, they will dismiss ALL of his claims summarily.
come on now, think about it.
 
Shawn10538
Shawn10538 8 years ago

Sounds like WAEOnce is just worried Rick's viceos are going to get more attention than his. A little competition never hurt nobody Truthbookblues. But hey, I like your videos too. Keep it up!
 
gloobster
gloobster 8 years ago

This video strikes me as very Michael Moore-ish (you know...Roger & Me, Bowling for Columbine, Fahrenheit 9/11 director) in its approach. I can appreciate what Fearon is trying to do, but going about it the way he does does no one any good. For example, if I worked for the Borg I know I would be afraid to give my name; they are most likely prohibited from doing so anyway. They don't like it when their clones don't assimilate fully.
He makes as many logical fallacies in condemning the organization as the organization does in supporting itself. Well, maybe not quite as many, but that's a hard number to top. He's kind of an anti-JW Fox news of his own. If you are going to condemn the WT, don't stoop to their terms to do it. Take the "high and narrow" path, as they are brainwashed to say. Cheap shots are obviously that, and this video is full of them. There is no need for them when there are so many other compelling and NON-sensationalistic angles to approach it from.
The only thing that Fearon is making a point of is the chip on his own shoulder. That is enough to turn a lot of people off (myself included) and ultimately be counterproductive to the cause.

gloobz
 
Wasanelder Once
Wasanelder Once 8 years ago

Shawn, you got it man, I can't sleep at night knowing that my videos aren't as popular as his are. Thank God my life isn't built around the acceptance of religious types or any God. I have a blast making my vids and if they push someone to think about the "Truth" for what it is then great. If not, I have a laugh watching them. I love the one of Russell with the whole pyramid thing the best. Glad you like them too. Peace Rick. Do your thing, no more criticisms here. What's the point anyway? You're out to win souls for the reformed Jehovah faith and I'm just out to poke the Organization in the ass with a hot iron 'cause I don't much care for their lies and domination of emotionally dependent and self righteous people. Go Jesus! W.Once
 
gloobster
gloobster 8 years ago

Wow! This is one hell of a polarized thread!
 
Solace1998
Solace1998 8 years ago

"The only thing that Fearon is making a point of is the chip on his own shoulder. That is enough to turn a lot of people off (myself included) and ultimately be counterproductive to the cause."
hit the nail on the head.
 
MinisterAmos
MinisterAmos 8 years ago

Polarized?
Apologists will do that you know....The first thing we used to teach our studies is that all Witnesses are equal; Rick is giving people something to use *BEFORE* they can be indoctrinated.
Want to kill the organization? The old members will fade away, keep new ones from entering and it will just go away. I would find a gentle death, a steady drop in the so-important numbers much more satisfying than a quick death.
The only way that will happen is to expose the lies one by one and remind people of God's view of liars; Rick's video does that.
 

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Topic Summary
rick fearon calls the watchtower concerning the tennis superstars venus and serena williams in this two part youtube video.. http://www.youtube.com/araretreat.



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Serena wants to marry a JW - does anyone want to be evenly yoked?
by dozy 4 years ago 18 Replies latest 4 years ago   jw friends
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dozy
dozy 4 years ago

http://www.s2smagazine.com/stories/2012/03/serena-williams-wants-man-her-faith
She says that she is "studying" to become a JW , so I guess that fits in with the report that her & Venus are UBPs , not baptised.
Personally I prefer Caroline Woznaicki , but I don't doubt that there will be a quite a few JW guys that regard her as ace & might be tempted to play mixed doubles , court and have a love game with Serena. And with her 85 million USD wealth , I'm guessing that that part time janitor or window washing job might no longer be necessary.
 
Joliette
Joliette 4 years ago

It always trips me out how people spend their 20's doing whatever they want to do, then once they hit 30 its all holy from here on out. Not judging Ms. Williams cause I love her as a tennis player and a role model for girls, but why do people always talk about how holy they are (especially a lot of back sliding baptized JW's) but then they pass judgement on ex-JW's, ex-Christians in general. I just dont get it. So since your a chrisitan, you get a pass on everything???? I dont get it.
 
mP
mP 4 years ago

who is the husband and who is the wife or is this a two men marriage ?
 
Joliette
Joliette 4 years ago

mP: You are not right!!!! LOL.
 
truthseeker1969
truthseeker1969 4 years ago

are you kidding me? she has the foulest mouth on this planet! then add prince who openly says he became a witness becos his mother wnted him to be one, dances around stage singing praise jehovah wears womens clothes and acts like a ballerina with a hole in his tights.
the katherine jackson who has bday parties takes gifts, goes to her sons concerts has rev al sharpton as a friend....the hypocrisy is stunning.
venus and serena were raised jw's left for tennis now come back,,,,,,,incredible. now rank and file try that....holy mother of martha stewart youd be in for it, unless you had a few dollars to buy your way in like the above.
 
blond-moment
blond-moment 4 years ago

Wonder if she is aware that JW world "evenly yoked" means the man has all the power and control. I wonder if she is aware how her sex life will be controlled. But then again, like Prince, she will be allowed to get away with much. The big money makers, or those they can exploit to gain members, get away with whatever they want. (JW speaking: no Michael Jackson was reproved for his Triller video, he had to put a disclaimer on it) <-- actual quote from a JW when I pointed out the hypocracy of celeb. witnesses. A whole disclaimer. Wow.
I is amazing how JWs will go bananas "prince praised Jehovah in this video, squee isn't he wonderful"...I watch the video and it is literaly..."I give thanks to Jehovah, the only true god....*slides right into 20 minutes of dirty lyrics, dirty bump and grind, sex on the stage kind of thing*. Seriously?
Don't get me wrong I am not knocking the celebs, I am knocking the hypocrasy of the WT.
 
keyser soze
keyser soze 4 years ago

I'm sure No Room For George would be more than willing.
 
No Room For George
No Room For George 4 years ago

I'm sure No Room For George would be more than willing.

She's a little too much woman for me and I don't mean she's fat or anything, but I couldn't handle all that. I can see it now, she'd come into our suite on our first honeymoon night looking like this on some Shaka Zulu type stuff..............


I mean, I love a good challenge just like any other man, but sometimes one has to be man enough to recognize when he's out of his league.
"a live dog is better off than a dead lion"-Ecc 9:4
 
watson
watson 4 years ago

She's ALL yoked up!
 
keyser soze
keyser soze 4 years ago

She's a little too much woman for me
Not to mention, she's probably into kinky stuff. She once threatened to shove a tennis ball down a line judge's throat. One thing comes to mind: ball gag.
 
No Room For George
No Room For George 4 years ago

Not to mention, she's probably into kinky stuff. She once threatened to shove a tennis ball down a line judge's throat. One thing comes to mind: ball gag.
She'd have me looking like this spanking me with a 16 page Awake magazine.

 
sir82
sir82 4 years ago

I'd be afraid whe would crush my head like a grape. Have you seen those arms / legs?
 
watson
watson 4 years ago

And you'd love it George!
 
THE GLADIATOR
THE GLADIATOR 4 years ago

Serena and Venus could probably tempt me into a game of mixed doubles.
Mind you, I’m not sure how many rounds I could survive, or who would come out on top!
 
Disillusioned Lost-Lamb
Disillusioned Lost-Lamb 4 years ago

YIKES just YIKES!
 
wha happened?
wha happened? 4 years ago

I won't marry a woman that wears tighty whities, with a flap in the front
 
biometrics
biometrics 4 years ago


Serena and Venus could probably tempt me into a game of mixed doubles.

Mind you, I’m not sure how many rounds I could survive, or who would come out on top!
She would slam your balls into next week.
 
wha happened?
wha happened? 4 years ago

well u would never lose them, they would be in Serena's ball bag
 
Zordino
Zordino 4 years ago

I don't know if I could marry a girl who could beat the hell out of me in an arm wrestle or benchpressing. Now if she looked like this: I would marry her in a heartbeat.
 

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Are Venus and Serena Williams baptized?
by inkling 7 years ago 6 Replies latest 7 years ago   watchtower beliefs
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inkling
inkling 7 years ago

Has anyone heard actual evidence that they are or are not?
(besides the absurdity of thier actions that the local elders would have to let slide)
Do they even claim to be Witneses anymore?

[inkling]
 
kwr
kwr 7 years ago

Yes they are baptized. Just this past summer one of the ladies thanked Jehovah for her win at the US open.
 
wha happened?
wha happened? 7 years ago

"Yes they are baptized. Just this past summer one of the ladies thanked Jehovah for her win at the US open."
How does this prove they are baptized.
Whether they are or not baptized JW's, they will obviously march to the beat of their own drum. Any celebrity JW or not always is given different treatment and held to different standards
 
inkling
inkling 7 years ago

Any celebrity JW or not always is given different treatment and held to different standards
See, this is what I have yet to see any real evidence for.
Anyone can CLAIM to be a Witness, and thank Jehovah for a win, but that dosn't make them one in the eyes of the local elders.

[inkling]
 
wha happened?
wha happened? 7 years ago

That's why I stated, how does this prove they are baptized?
 
IWillBeDubbedNoMore
IWillBeDubbedNoMore 7 years ago

Last summer my uncle from Florida came up for an anniversary party. During his visit the serena sisters came up in conversation. He was joking about them and the way they act. He said that they are supposed to be going to his hall, but they are never there. I asked him if they were baptized and he said no.
 
inkling
inkling 7 years ago

He was joking about them and the way they act. He said that they are supposed to be going to his hall, but they are never there. I asked him if they were baptized and he said no.
Thank you. This seems likely.
 

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Reality TV: Venus & Serena Williams
by myself 11 years ago 13 Replies latest 11 years ago   jw friends
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myself
myself 11 years ago

It's almost time for their new show tonight 9pm CST. I wonder if they will mention their ties to the JW's?
 
orbison11
orbison11 11 years ago


yes i am also,,,,,i have a thing about jw celebrities getting away with,,,,ummm,,,,,,flag waving, etc
orbi
 
SixofNine
SixofNine 11 years ago

Thanks, I'm on it like white on....er... nevermind. I'll watch it. :wink:
 
myself
myself 11 years ago


hmmm, the Atty sister has taken over mom's role because mom isn't around much anymore.
Yoga???? but she did mention she was religious, wonder if she gets to count her time, next week she can count her return visits if she makes another little mention of being religious. If they make a video to sell, they might be able to count their placement.
Stay tuned for next weeks episode of their wild and wacky adventures
 
mad max
mad max 11 years ago


Did not even know they were or are JW or even connected here in South Africa.
Thought that JW could not be competative, my kid could not participate in ANY sports.
Please keep us updated as in South Africa if you do not have DSTV, then we stuck with 4 well 3 channels as the one is a pay channel and lots just cannot afford it.
 
DevonMcBride
DevonMcBride 11 years ago

I saw just the beginning of their show when they were eating in an expensive restaurant and talking to friends about how much nicer more materialistic their lives are.
 
Daunt
Daunt 11 years ago

I saw a commercial for this show and I just kinda laughed. I wouldn't mind more information on what you guys thought about the show though. Yoga? Materialistic? Ah yes the book (and it's organization) that can change hearts is strong.
 
freedom96
freedom96 11 years ago


While they have a JW background, from what I have seen, they are nothing like the normal rank and file witness. I would be shocked if they did much personal study, or attended most, if any meetings, and I don't really see them going out in service.
I could be wrong..... but the things I have seen them do and act on tv etc, does not match with WTS requirements. If they are even baptized, in the hall I attended, they would have been df'd a long time ago.
 
nilfun
nilfun 11 years ago


Good for them that despite being raised JW they are pursuing their dream but *good god* it's fairly annoying for them to put themselves out there as the devout JW poster children -- it's a dishonest recruitment tactic IMHO.
I think that is the biggest reason why these girls are starting to get on my nerves.
 
Dogpatch
Dogpatch 11 years ago


As many as 20 million Americans practice yoga in pursuit of physical or mental fitness, with a little Om along the way.
Sachin Tendulkar, football's Eddie George, Shannon Sharpe and Amani Toomer; baseball pitchers Barry Zito and Al Leiter, star hockey goalie Sean Burke and NBA superstar Kevin Garnett and Shaquille O'Neal, as well as pro golfers and tennis player, Pete Sampras, Leander Paes, Venus Williams, Serena Williams, John McEnroe http://www.atributetohinduism.com/Yoga_and_Hindu_Philosophy.htm
 
sf
sf 11 years ago


My teenage daughter informed me that I could watch this at most any time since the cable channel 'ABC Family' re-airs it's programs as much as Discovery channel re-airs theirs.
That's good, because I was not about to miss LOST last night. I'm hooked.
I'm about to look for a message board or feedback forum on ABC Family channel.
Here we go:
http://www.cabletvtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=42
There are two threads going.
sKally
 
misspeaches
misspeaches 11 years ago


Here is another forum going --> http://forums.go.com/forums/abcfamily/forum?start=0&forumID=158&byThread=true
There is a thread entitled Jehovahs Witnesses there.
This has actually been started by someone to get some reaction from the dubs...
Its already sparking some debates...
 
sf
sf 11 years ago



 Venus: [ http://www.nndb.com/people/229/000023160/ ]
All the Williams children were raised as Jehovah's Witnesses, and home-schooled by their mother.
Does not state if they were ever actually baptized.
Serena: [ http://www.nndb.com/people/205/000023136/ ]
Their father, Richard Williams, has coached and, some say, harangued the girls since childhood -- or even earlier. He says he was watching tennis on TV in 1978, and when he saw how much prize money could be won, he decided on the spot that tennis winnings could be his family's path to success.
Bastard. I'm guessing that having jehovah as your god was not a path towards success. Only the Almighty Dollar! alt

sKally
 
sf
sf 11 years ago


Hey Peachy, thx!!
sKally
 

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Venus Williams an Elder?
by LizardSnot 13 years ago 5 Replies latest 13 years ago   jw friends
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LizardSnot
LizardSnot 13 years ago


Wow!...not only are dubs allowed to play sports now...women can be elders...kewl! :wink:


Serena and Venus Williams became the first sisters to play a final since 1884 when Briton Maud Watson beat her sibling Lilian two sets to one.
Serena won the match and the title off her elder sister. (Story)
She said afterwards: "I'm a Jehovah's Witness. Obviously we believe in God and the Bible.
"Without Him, I wouldn't be here right now. I really thank Him for everything. I've been blessed really."
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/07/07/wimbledon.final/index.html
~Lizard
 
Yerusalyim
Yerusalyim 13 years ago

WHy not, she's in better shape than 90% of the Elders and more masculine than 60% of the Elders I've met.
 
izobcenec
izobcenec 13 years ago

maybe she meant OLDER sister...
 
LuckyLucy
LuckyLucy 13 years ago


If I wore those skimpy little outfits that she wears...I would have been df!!
 
Francois
Francois 13 years ago


First time I knew the Big Jah was interested in sports. I did know He likes Pontiacs ("He will persue you with his Tempest"). No tellin' what will happen next.
francois
Edited by - Francois on 27 September 2002 14:33:22
 
LizardSnot
LizardSnot 13 years ago


Older?..hmmm hadnt thought of that :wink:
~Lizard
 

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Williams sisters still preaching
by Mulan 12 years ago 9 Replies latest 12 years ago   jw friends
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Mulan
Mulan 12 years ago


This was in our newspaper today:
"Jehovah's Witnesses Venus and Serena Williams still proselytize their faith, but the tennis stars now do so by phone instead of going door-to-door, Serena told Newsweek. Why the change? People would ask the superstar sisters to sign their Bibles."
 
stillajwexelder
stillajwexelder 12 years ago

I would not be bothered about Serena signing my bible -- I would like to be suffocated in her ample chest!! What a wonderful way to die
 
maxwell
maxwell 12 years ago

Yes, the utility of the sports bra becomes evident.
 
jimbob
jimbob 12 years ago

Can you just imagine someone answering the phone and the William sisters introducing themselves. I think most people are going to hang up on them thinking it's some kind of prank call. Besides, I have a hard time believing they do much witnessing at all, especially by phone. They might call from there cell phones while in their limo going from their hotel to the the tennis court. But I'm sure they only get in an hour and write down 20 on their time slips, just like all other dubs....
 
ofcmad
ofcmad 12 years ago

Are they also preaching from the teachings of revlon and wilson?
 
cruzanheart
cruzanheart 12 years ago


Yes, but what are they WEARING when they do telephone witnessing? One of Serena's creations? Designer duds? C'mon, People magazine wants to know!
Nina (of the Fashionista class)
 
simplesally
simplesally 12 years ago

And what's their response when asked why it was okay to run around the tennis court holding the American Flag?
 
got my forty homey?
got my forty homey? 12 years ago


I wonder, while they are between phone calls do they hold the latest issues of the Watchtower and Awake in plastic magazine holders?
The Borg is sinking to amazing new lows.
 
Azalo
Azalo 12 years ago

at least they havent let the JW's ruin their career, it will be a sad day when they announce they are retiring to go pioneer where "the need is greater"
 
Sentinel
Sentinel 12 years ago


I'm just so confused. How were they allowed to get so involved in worldly stuff in the first place? Can they have their cake and eat it too? Doesn't seem fair, considered how the dreams and talents of others were trashed....According to the rules of the JW's that I associated with, they should never have gotten this celebrity status. But you see, this is just another example of how the rules are applied unfairly.
/<
 

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Anyone Seen This
by lambsbottom 2 years ago 14 Replies latest 2 years ago   watchtower beliefs
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lambsbottom
lambsbottom 2 years ago

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2691254/How-Jehovahs-Witnesses-got-street-smart-Believers-swap-infamous-doorstepping-standing-outside-train-stations-shops.html
It's a practice that's been the butt of jokes for decades: a pair of Jehovah's Witnesses turning up suited and booted on your doorstep.
But the days of the 140-year-old religious order's members trudging door-to-door in the rain could soon be numbered.
Thousands have switched tactics to stand on street corners in more than a dozen cities across Britain - and unusually for public preachers, they are staying almost completely silent.
Leaders believe it is a better tactic in modern Britain, where people do not like being approached directly and prefer browsing as if in a shop.
Three years after the same tactic was introduced in New York, witnesses have been standing on pavements in at least 13 cities across Britain and handing out tens of thousands of magazines.
Unl ike other evangelical preachers, they do not shout or call attention to themselves - instead standing in near-silence until someone approaches them.
'I guess that's just not our style,' said Mark O'Malley, a spokesman for the Jehovah's Witnesses at their London headquarters.
'We have used inventive approaches down the years. We used "sound cars" in the 1930s which would relay lectures in the street from megaphones on the roof.
'Radio was used a lot later on and our members wore placards and sandwich boards. But now it's more organised, particularly in larger cities where there's tremendous footfall.
'I think this method is effective because it allows individuals to take the initiative rather than us approaching them.
'People find certain approaches more appealing to them. If you go into a shop some people prefer to browse and then at the right time they'll be asked if they'd like some help.'
Jokes: There are 8million members of the movement around the world, but they often have front doors slammed in their faces. The movement says door-to-door work will continue but people are often not at home +5 Jokes: There are 8million members of the movement around the world, but they often have front doors slammed in their faces. The movement says door-to-door work will continue but people are often not at home +5
Jokes: There are 8million members of the movement around the world, but they often have front doors slammed in their faces. Leaders say door-to-door work will continue but people are often not at home

Grump y commuters already sp end their time batting away free newspapers, mag azines, leaflet s and charity collectors - but Mr O'Malley said: 'People tell us that for them, they prefer that approach. Other cultures are similar.'
Some former believers claim door-to-door preaching - which has been widely parodied for de cades - is unpopular with members who earn a hostile reception on the doorstep.

More...
◦ Jehovah's Witness elder jailed for 14 years for sexually abusing girls as young as 12 from his own congregation and raping one woman leaving her pregnant
◦ A baby at 18, getting divorced at 22 and growing up Jehovah's witness: Masterchef contestant Renae Smith says life experience gives her the edge on cooking show
Former member of 14 years Scott Terry, who wrote The Truth: How a Gay Child Was Saved from Religion, said hitting the streets could be the only way to 'clock up' enough hours of service.
He said: 'Jehovah's Witnesses require a certain amount of "field service," or time spent recruiting, in order to maintain their standing in the congregation.
'Anyone who does not fulfill those requirements will receive admonishment from the elders, and could also be considered "inactive". There is a tremendous amount of pressure within the congregation to fulfill the hourly requirement.'
Print run: The organisation wants to build a new headquarters the size of seven football pitches near Chelmsford, Essex, which could print 184,000 copies an hour of magazines such as The Watchtower +5
Print run: The organisation wants to build a new headquarters the size of seven football pitches near Chelmsford, Essex, which could print 184,000 copies an hour of magazines such as The Watchtower

Mr O' Mall ey insisted 'nothing's changed' with the movement's stance on doorstepping, which still takes place.
But he admitted: 'We find a lot of people might not be home, especially during the week.
'People we might not find door-to-door, we find in the street.'
The new recruits in the street include 1,000 in London alone, with others in Cardiff, Edinburgh, Manchester, Belfast, Birmingham, Bristol, Glasgow, Leeds, Liverpool, Newcastle, Nottingham and Sheffield. There are also street 'Witnesses' in Dublin, Ireland.
Media-savvy: Leaders are now analysing which themes shift the most magazines +5
Media-savvy: Leaders are now analysing which themes shift the most magazines

They come from a wide range of ethnic backgrounds and more are women than men, but Mr O'Malley said this was because many believers have husbands who work full-time.
The move men t was founded in the 18 7 0s by Charles Taze Russell, a Presbyterian from P ittsburgh, Pen nsylvania, and now has around 8million members.
They adopted the name Jehovah's Witnesses in 1931 to reflect the fact that they believe only in direct worship to God (Jehovah) and not the traditional Christian Trinity of 'father, son and Holy Spirit'.
Certain beliefs - including refusal to salute flags, fight in armed services or accept blood transfusions, even for children - have brought 'Witnesses' in to direct conflict with governments.
They are also not accepted as a doctrine by mainstream Christianity and former members such as Mr Terry claim they are like a 'cult'.
But the organisation presides over vast numbers of members worldwide and millions of pounds in funding.
Next month 50,000 believers will descend on Twickenham stadium in south west London for a convention in more than a dozen languages.
And in January, the global movement announced its plans to open a new British headquarters the size of seven football pitches on the outskirts of Chelmsford, Essex.
If built the centre could provide a base for 800 believers, several acres of gardens and a printing room capable of churning out 184,000 magazines every hour.
Jehovah's Witnesses - whose celebrity members include the singer Prince and tennis champion sisters Serena and Venus Williams - are also becoming more media-savvy.
Leaders say the May issue of Awake!, their main magazine alongside The Watchtower, shifted record numbers because it was themed around stress, a general topic with which everyone could connect.
In response the movement is repeating almost exactly the same theme in its September issue, which will be about 'burnout'.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2691254/How-Jehovahs-Witnesses-got-street-smart-Believers-swap-infamous-doorstepping-standing-outside-train-stations-shops.html#ixzz37mY62UGn
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
 
sooner7nc
sooner7nc 2 years ago

Just sounds lazy as hell to me. Lazyass JW's
 
Pistoff
Pistoff 2 years ago

Too funny: yes, the public WOULD prefer this method of preaching: just stand there, STFU, we'll look it over and let you know if we want anything
 
LouBelle
LouBelle 2 years ago

We did street witnessing for years....over 30 years ago
 
Heartofaboy
Heartofaboy 2 years ago

The ones I've seen standing suited & booted by the trolleys look stiff & unapproachable.
They should stand much further away as I'm sure they were putting people off.
 
Oubliette
Oubliette 2 years ago


More JW doublespeak. Notice the inconsistent and contradictory use of the word "approach":
◦Leaders believe it is a better tactic in modern Britain, where people do not like being approached directly and prefer browsing as if in a shop.
◦Unlike other evangelical preachers, they do not shout or call attention to themselves - instead standing in near-silence until someone approaches them.
◦'We have used inventive approaches down the years. We used "sound cars" in the 1930s which would relay lectures in the street from megaphones on the roof.
◦'I think this method is effective because it allows individuals to take the initiative rather than us approaching them.
◦'People find certain approaches more appealing to them. If you go into a shop some people prefer to browse and then at the right time they'll be asked if they'd like some help.'
In every case, the approach was done by the "interested" non-believer, not by the JW.
To paraphrase Bill Maher, "Standing and waiting for someone to come up and talk to you is an approach, just like abstinence is a sexual position."
- -
 
AnnOMaly
AnnOMaly 2 years ago

Another thread on the same article: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/social/current/281750/1/I-dont-call-this-progress#.U8ktOfldXvQ
 
apostrate
apostrate 2 years ago

Street Work. Street Walkers. 'Nuff said.
 
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 2 years ago

This kind of witnessing is great, people will get a book like what does the bible teach, read it, barf, and then have nothing to do with witnesses again.
 
chrisuk
chrisuk 2 years ago

The elder I studied with came to my house a month or so back and told me he's been doing metropolitan witnessing in Birmingham. He said he was aproached by a guy who said he was an Atheist, this guy asked the elder why he believed in God. The elder replied: " Do you know why I belive in God? I belive in God because of Ikea. I bought my son a shelving unit from Ikea which came flat packed, I layed all the parts out on the floor ready to be assembled. Now if I'd have left all those parts on the floor for years they still would have been exactly as I left them. The unit couldn't of assembled it's self." He said the Athiest guy gave him a look like he actually got it, and then just walked off. The elder told me that he thought he'd really got through to that guy. I shit you not he really said all this.
I just sat there thinking the Athiest must have just been shocked at what he'd just heard, thought the elder was beyond help and so he walked off. This elder has been a JW for over 40 years, so as log as they have people with his skills out in public I'd say an increase in numbers is unlikely.
My mothers friend who is also a JW said she was doing the trolly work and a young ish guy approached them, but he didn't seem to want to talk. So, she asked if he needed any help, at which point he broke down in tears and told her that he was raised a JW but left "The Truth" a few years ago and kew Jehovah didn't love him anymore because he'd spoken ill of God org. Anyway, long story short she asked if he would like her to arrange for a brother to call on him for a study. At which point he cried even more and couldn't thank her enough for helping him. Now, to me this guy sounded like he possibly had some mental health issues and would have been much better off seeking help for that than getting wrapped up with the JW's again.
 
New Worldly Translation
New Worldly Translation 2 years ago

That Ikea story is funny, haven't heard that analogy before, haha. The Jdubs must have hit saturation point going door to door and are getting no interest at all. I left 10 years ago and I would regularly take my magazines out for a walk without placing any or having a decent conversation with anyone.
I've heard about JW's running literature stalls at local markets too. Man, it must be piss easy to get pioneer hours in now the lazy arses.
 
Ocean1111
Ocean1111 2 years ago

Well obviously simply bypassing the whole Web territory of 2 billion+ people is a strategic decision. The decision is to KILL the ministry, it is as if Charles Russell and Joe Rutherford IGNORED the technologies of their day, which they did not. Plain and simple a JW on the Web for one month with a few techniques known to SEOs globally, would be far more effective than 3 "pioneers" working streets and doors ALL YEAR LONG.
 And how do we know this is the case? Look at the Web's effect on decreasing JW growth. Now the Bethel lawless record disseminated through the internet stumbles conservatively 4 or 5000 people evry day away from "the truth", as Bethel causes "the truth to be spoken of abusively" by their record.
 In fact the whole "opposer" front has been transformed to an analysis not of theology, but of Bethel UN NGO, pedophile aiding and abetting, shunning and shameless racketeering of billions in JW assets and global slave labor to recapitalize the JW "investment" into lucrative property and technology farming.
 Now as well Bethel subverts not only the average JW, they also subvert the opposition by labeling them "apostates" when in fact the Classic Apostasy is right in Bethel's leadership. JW critics should not allow Bethel to call them "apostates", Bethel has no business pointing any bloody fingers at anyone and people should ID Bethel as the real "apostates".
 Now the list of strategic ministry kill techniques can go on and on and it indicates design, not random spiritual decadence. The random decadence is now developing as a symptom of the core design right in the congregations who emulate the spiritual criminality and hubris, as usual, of the Bethel celebrity leadership. The WHOLE thing, and every part of JWs, now distracts from their own original "Kingdom message".
JWs are now a ridiculous GB cult and running joke and it's going to get much much worse.
 Thus it appears by all this "rebranding" and latent messaging they are preparing JWs for the Bethel backed end of the ministry, to be called off by the GB themselves and thus that 1976 GB coup will meet it's original objective, but in final form. It is "the end" of Bethel "any day now", not the world system. Bethel is preparing the cover and reception of their own planned downfall, that is the only reasonable answer for all these weird anomalies, because it is from 1976 that Bethel went into terminal corruption and development of their top 4 global stumbling developments and policies that literally stumble probably a million people a year for the last 20 years.
There is no way to blame the whole JW ministry for the world of the lawless GB since 1976, but they love people to make that over-extension to question the entire Christian validity of a "kingdom come" message which has been the core of any believer's own "model prayer" for 2000 years, and that too is discredited by the Bethel vampires. Bethel's apostasy is only equalled by the Sanhedrin, Christendom looks like a saint compared to modern lawless Bethel's record from a more enlightened state and claim persepctive. Meaning JWs "claiming to see" are worse in blindness due to their own "accurate knowledge" and claims.
 That is why the ministry is at "apex" in stumbling, not in effectiveness. Many red flags are now flapping over Bethel, it is worse than even most JW critics realize.
 
rebel8
rebel8 2 years ago

I saw one of those booths on library property recently. I consulted with an attorney from FFRF.org who confirmed it is legal in the US to use gov't property in that fashion unless certain groups are being favored over others.
My library's policy is to permit groups with differing views to promote free exchange of ideas and freedom of speech. I am considering writing to my library board with quotes from the litteratrash that restrict freethinking and freedom of speech.
I do not like religious groups using government property. I feel it violates my legal right to freedom from religion. Unfortunately, it's a feeling, not a fact, that such property usage violates my legal rights.
Perhaps other jurisdictions would have more luck than I did.
 
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 2 years ago

Rebel, you should set up an identical rolley-cart with cult awareness materials right next to the JWS. DD
 
Focus
Focus 2 years ago

Some are more than a few cards short of a full deck...
This is a goddamned BOOK AND MAGAZINE PUBLISHING BUSINESS.
The rest of the scam is built around that.
Not the other way around!
If you sell more litteritchah with "street-prostitution", it is done this way, with its pyramid-scheme operation. If it is better another way, that will work.
Sweet Jaysus, some people are stupid.
You don't say anyone (cofty, please excuse) actually was so loose-screwed to buy into any other explanation?
Whew... wanna buy Brooklyn Bridge, anyone? I have it on offer this week. Strictly cash, though.
__
Focus
("One Born Every Minnit" Class)
 

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I don't date because I'm a Jehover's Witness
by Elsewhere 12 years ago 19 Replies latest 12 years ago   jw friends
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Elsewhere
Elsewhere 12 years ago

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/06/04/1086203613032.html?oneclick=true#
The princess and the showgirl June 6, 2004

alt
She's uninhibited, supremely confident, and hoping for a second win at Wimbledon later this month. Sue Mott meets Serena Williams.
'None of us are introverts," said Serena Williams, unnecessarily. We had kind of gathered that. Something about her winning six grand-slam titles in between working as an actress and establishing her own fashion house (at the age of 22) helped us draw that conclusion.
Meanwhile, her sister Venus is also pretty big in the tennis world; her father Richard rivals Donald Trump for being the least shy man in America and her mother Oracene, who intrigues Wimbledon every year with a new hairdo, is currently sporting a pink cast on her wrist after a roller-skating accident.
This is not your normal family, which goes a long way to explaining its baby scion, Serena.
She is conducting this conversation from beneath the brim of a bright turquoise cap on the terracotta terrace of a gorgeous hotel near the Piazza del Popolo in Rome and is musing on the question of whether - like Muhammad Ali - she has the right to say of herself: "I am the greatest."
"I can't say I do," she murmured after a short internal wrestle. "I mean, I love Muhammad Ali. He's an icon. I met him once, years and years ago. I wish I could meet him again. The only reason I wouldn't say 'I am the greatest' right now in my career is that my accomplishments compared to Chris Evert, Martina Navratilova, Billie Jean King aren't any greater. I am striving to become the greatest. "Tennis-wise I want to win tons more grand slams. If I do, I definitely do think I'll be the greatest. I guess you have to say it the way it is. I see myself becoming that."
Modesty forbids Serena nothing. She is possibly the most lavishly confident young woman the sports world has produced. She seems almost supernaturally over-endowed with self-regard. Then you look at her record, her work ethic, her millions, her earrings and remind yourself: the dear girl is only telling the truth.
Serena is simply uninhibited. Whether striking a tennis ball with pulverising robustness or scouring the Via de Corso in pursuit of new handbags, she brooks no denial. Take Miami in March. It was her first tournament, and a major one, since surgery on her left knee the previous August. She ought to have been rusty, if nothing else. Instead, she won, beating - dismissing - Elena Dementieva of Russia 6-1, 6-1 in 50 minutes.
"I wasn't match fit so it was kind of crazy. Incredible. I didn't think I'd win. I underestimated myself, as a player, as a professional. I'll never do that again."
And then take the press conference after her first match in Rome. A journalist asked whether she would dine out that night. "Do you want to take me out?" she responded immediately and, to mass hilarity, growled at him like a seriously interested tigress.
"It wasn't necessarily flirting," she offered as a disclaimer the next day. She has learnt to strike up conversations herself because so many acquaintances are too frozen with terror by her fame and reputation to say anything. "People do get intimidated, especially in those type of situations. I'm really, maybe overly, friendly. I'm nice. But I don't get taken advantage of - I'm not that nice.
"I do make mistakes though. With men, I definitely have," she giggled evasively. "Met the wrong guy. Well, a couple of 'em. I can't even make those mistakes any more. I've really become so cold-hearted now." More laughter. "Sometimes I just laugh. You have to. Oh God. You can't really have a private life in America. Oh, what am I talking about? America? London's even worse.
"Oh, you wouldn't believe the people I've dated that I don't even know I've dated. I've never even met them. I went to a Laker game once with a friend and I was like, 'Oh my God, that's a guy I dated. Now I know what he looks like'. I was cracked up. It was so funny. I never even met the guy but I was allegedly dating him. I can't even remember his name.
"And then it was rumoured I was dating a couple of married men, I didn't like that at all. It was outrageous." The men in question were both hulking gridiron stars, LaVar Arrington and Keyshawn Johnson, and clearly a veil has been thrown over their existence. Serena, a Jehovah's Witness, is trying to adhere to the teachings of her church.
"We don't believe in dating unless you're ready to get married. I've never dated anybody. It's good to get experience under your belt but you should never get wild or go crazy. That's how I look at it. If I can't see myself with this person for life - I can't be bothered. I can't waste my time.
"I have some really good men friends but I believe in no sex before marriage. No fornicating. Stuff like that. I really believe in that. I mean, I'm not perfect. It's hard to live by Bible standards but I'm really comfortable with me. There's so much peer pressure. So much pressure, period. I've just removed myself from it. I don't know if I'll fall in love again."
Comments in red are "Girl Talk" for: "I did the nasty with a guy who turned out to be a jerk."
- Elsewhere
This is accompanied by the sigh of an actress in full-blown Greta Garbo rehearsal. But bonhomie keeps breaking through, like the spring Roman sun overhead. However hard she tries, Serena is not a convincing depressive.
"I do have my moments. I sometimes feel insecure if I go up for audition and don't do well. I think, 'Gosh, darn it!' Then I have to quickly snap myself out of it. Get back to reality. Because I figure I'm going to be the best at everything I put my mind to.
"Everyone says I'm a natural actress but I need to be more expressive with my eyes. You have to use every facial thing you can muster up in emotional roles. Crying: it's difficult. I can though."
The last time we saw her in real tears was the French Open last year when she lost in the semi-final to Justine Henin-Hardenne, who deployed questionable gamesmanship en route to victory, amid storms of anti-Williams jeering. "I was real upset," said Serena, with a rueful laugh. "People can be unruly and kind. Not French people in particular, people in general. But it was my own double fault because I should have been stronger to deal with it.
"But now, I'm really, really mature. I may only be 22 but every year I mature about five years."
She smiled with a cat-like contentment. "I've learnt to look out for me. Because the next person's not going to. They'll run over you and back up and run over you, and back up and run over you. I just can't have that right now. Like tennis, it's dog eat dog. But I get along with everyone on the women's tour. We travel around like a big family."
Even Henin-Hardenne? "Ah well, I don't really talk to her. She's not around much so I can't tell you what her personality's like. If I see her, I'm real cordial but we never really see each other that much."
Serena lapsed into silence, gazing unseeingly at a lemon tree. Possibly she was contemplating the fact that Henin-Hardenne is officially the world's number-one female tennis player, an almost incomputable notion in Williams-world. "I wanna get back to being number one. I like being on top. It's something I like waking up to in the morning."
It must be an irritation that she is not. "I can't even tell you what I'm ranked. Let's just put it like that. If I'm not number one, I don't know what I am. But, you know, it's funny. Everybody still thinks I'm number one. Anywhere I go they say, 'Oh my God, you're number one, aren't you?' and I say, 'Yes I am!' If I try to explain to the regular public in America who is number one, they've never heard of her. So I just say, 'It's me! It's me!' Why not?"
"Serena," said her mother, wandering up, "is a nut." She smiled indulgently at her daughter who put an arm around her mother's shoulder and kissed her ear affectionately. This family has been through the stress of divorce and the terrible tragedy of an elder sister, Yetunde, being shot dead at her home in Los Angeles last year.
Oracene goes to court in August to fight for custody of her three grandchildren, two boys and a girl, who she is currently looking after. This surrogate parenthood explains the roller-skating accident.
Serena cannot talk much about Yetunde's death. "I haven't really coped yet. I'm trying to figure out how to cope with it. But not a day goes by when I don't think of it and I try to make sure I talk to all my sisters every day."
This sisterhood has been undoubtedly crucial in her life. In the mock battle of professional sport, undiluted support is a formidable weapon. "My sister Isha put it best. She said something like, 'You're a queen so you should have the best. You're a princess so you should get everything you want.' I thought, 'You know what. You're right'."
Venus, however, is a little tougher to crack. As far as we know their on-court rivalry, now utterly dominated by the youngest sister, never extends to a family fallout. But in the wardrobe wars, Serena has been known to take a loss. "I'm always raiding her wardrobe. I like her furs."
Serena has her own fashion line: Aneres. "My name spelt backwards," she explained. "My goal in a couple of years is to try to build a successful fashion house like Armani or Versace. I want that more than anything." More than being an actress? She thought for a split second. "I want 'em all."
Plus that elusive boyfriend. "I'm into someone who has high morals, loves his mum, gives me respect and treats me like a princess." What can you say? That this is not quite the template into which Neanderthal man has evolved. "Oh I know," she sighed with resignation, than chuckled. "I like to look at Mariah Carey, Sandra Bullock. Beautiful women. Talented women. We're all in the same situation. It's hard to find a good man."
A few bad ones, she has already encountered. She is security conscious and uses bodyguards. "Yes, I have to. With stalkers and crazy people," she said glumly. "I don't like it when people touch my arm. But I've never, ever, ever in my life been in a fight. Ever." Delighted pause. "I'm waiting. Like, can I punch somebody please, before my life is over?"
Well, it's an ambition. No doubt, some clear-eyed promoter will suggest Serena v Muhammad Ali's daughter in the ring at Madison Square Garden. And you cannot be sure that Serena would not give it serious, even thrilled, consideration.
But first, there is a tennis career to re-rail. Her left knee may not have fully recuperated (she lost in Amelia Island, Florida, in April to a Russian, seeded ninth, who enjoys fishing) and Henin-Hardenne has the mental toughness of a prize fighter if not the punch. Wimbledon could be interesting.
"I loo-oove Wimbledon," she said. "I love Wimbledon so much. Everybody in their lifetime should go to Wimbledon. It's like seeing one of the seven wonders of the world. I feel so honoured to be part of Wimbledon's history for the rest of my life. The atmosphere, the tradition, the crowd, the village, everyone wearing white, the grass - so clean and crisp. And that announcer! I'm telling ya, I go really insane when I hear him say, 'Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to the fifth day of the Wimbledon Championships'." Serena performs the line in a hugely sedate English accent then convulses with laughter.
"And I love it when he says, 'Thirteenth day!' because that's women's final day and I'm there!"
If this sounds presumptuous, it could also be dead right. And if it happens, we won't miss her easily. "Last year my underwear was white, I think. I was pretty modest but this year I like the idea of gold." It sounds like a James Bond remake: Serena Williams in gold knickers. We wait with interest.
- Daily Telegraph
 
ScoobySnax
ScoobySnax 12 years ago

Hmmmmm.....M.Ali once said he was greater than Christ. No true JW would call him a hero or icon. I wonder about these girls.
Scoob
 
Bryan
Bryan 12 years ago

Just last week a sports commentator was stating how depresses the two girls looked. I think they lost bigtime, but not sure. Maybe she got cought.
Bryan
 
Princess
Princess 12 years ago

"Sometimes I just laugh. You have to. Oh God.
Oh God? Can dubs say that? Have the elders read this???
Elsewhere, your comments are just too much. You are so right. When did you learn girl talk?
Rachel
 
Maverick
Maverick 12 years ago

Lighten up will-ya! I like her and her sister! I watch all their televised matches. They both are great for tennis and wonderful role models for America Women! They are young, beautiful, talented and rich....what s not to like? Maverick, from Paris and the French Open
 
Mary
Mary 12 years ago

What I want to know is when she's going to give up this "worldly" career, and go pioneering full time, all for the greater glory of the Borg.
 
ohiocowboy
ohiocowboy 12 years ago

No wonder they are so good at tennis-All them pent-up Hormones, and not bein' able to use them for sex....I guess I can't blame them for releasing their aggressions on a little ball!!!
 
gumby
gumby 12 years ago

"We don't believe in dating unless you're ready to get married. I've never dated anybody. It's good to get experience under your belt but you should never get wild or go crazy. That's how I look at it. If I can't see myself with this person for life - I can't be bothered. I can't waste my time.
"I have some really good men friends but I believe in no sex before marriage. No fornicating. Stuff like that. I really believe in that. I mean, I'm not perfect. It's hard to live by Bible standards but I'm really comfortable with me. There's so much peer pressure. So much pressure, period. I've just removed myself from it. I don't know if I'll fall in love again."
Awwwww....how special.
She won't fornicate, nor date before marriage because the Organisation says you shouldn't........but she will break the Organisations rules on forbidence to participate in "extra-curricular sports and competitive competition that throws you in with bad association.
I had to quit sports as a pole vaulter on the track team because of the society's stance on extra curicular activities outside the normal school activities...........along with thousands of others.
The "school brochure" explicitly explains that Jehovahs Witnesses WILL NOT engage in competitive sports......yet the Williams sisters draw their OWN lines as to how far they will obey the "faithfull and discreet sick bastards. How nice to have to money to break the society's rules and get away with it eh?
Too bad the thousands of Jehovah's Witnesses who wanted to join sports in school......could not follow the example of the Williams sisters and defy the Organisation with no rebuttle from them. Nah.......no hypocracy there.
Gumby
 
Mary
Mary 12 years ago

Gumby said: Too bad the thousands of Jehovah's Witnesses who wanted to join sports in school......could not follow the example of the Williams sisters and defy the Organisation with no rebuttle from them.
Oohh gumby, this is sooo true and I get pissed off whenever I think about it. Not for myself, but for my brother. I was always terrible in sports and when we had Track and Field day, I was slower than a turtle running backwards - it just wasn't there.
However, my brother was incredible at sports, a talent he inherited from our grandfather, who used to win all kinds of trophies in the 1920s from running and walkathons. In grade 8 Track and Field, my brother did the hundred yard dash in just over 11 seconds. I'm not sure what the world record is, but you have to remember that he was only 12 or 13 at the time, and had absolutely no training whatsoever. He was tall for his age, with long legs so that obviously helped. Nor was this a fluke. He won First prize ribbons for every event he entered: high jump, long jump, 100-yard dash, 200 yard dash, 500 yard dash, shot-put and discus. At that time he was the only person in his school to ever win First Place for every event and he received a special trophy engraved with him name and year on it. His 100 yard dash record has never been broken at this school. The one teacher specifically told him that he had great potential to go on to professional sports, inparticular, running and wanted him to start training after school.
His gym teacher encouraged him to join the hockey team which he did and he loved it. Not only did he love it, he was really good at it. My parents let him practice after school for quite a while until one of the elder's kids said something to his dad about my brother being able to play sports, so why couldn't he? The elders came down on my parents about this and so my brother wasn't allowed to practice anymore. He was crushed and his life went on a downward spiral ever since.
I hate the Organization for their f*cked up rules on sports as I have no doubt that my brother could have gone on to professional sports and made something of himself. Assholes.


 
gumby
gumby 12 years ago

Hi Mary.....it got even worse.
In P.E...physical education, as in the regular curriculem, we had wrestling as one of th events we did. The witness brothers were told not to participate in "violent" events as this.....boxing included in some schools ...though not in mine. I did it anyway and so did a few others, but other brothers were dismissed to the library who obyed the society's policies on this. Can you imagine th embarrasment and humiliation these brothers went through?
Gumby
 
ApagaLaLuz
ApagaLaLuz 12 years ago

"I dont date because I'm an ugly woman who looks like a man and scares them away with my enormous man thighs"
 
franklin J
franklin J 12 years ago

..perhaps her success in the tennis community and brush with celebrity status will open her eyes...
 
heathen
heathen 12 years ago

It could also be one of those sexist double standards as well . Men are really supposed to be the spiritual pillars in the congregation where as women can persue other interests and put them first in their lives while getting no reprimand . I'm beginning to doubt the rumors that they are dubs , they just have too much ambition and have been seen waving the flag on tv of which a typical dub would be suspended , these people won't even stand for the national anthem ,they sound more to me like fence sitters when it comes to the religion . I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem finding men as I have seen plenty of way more ugly women finding a date .
 
Mary
Mary 12 years ago

"I dont date because I'm an ugly woman who looks like a man and scares them away with my enormous man thighs"
LOL! You said it..........
I can't see the difference, can you see the difference?
alt
 
iiz2cool
iiz2cool 12 years ago

I don't date because I'm a Jehover's Witness
I believe it. Being a Jehover's Witness automatically makes her undesirable to most normal people.
Walter
 
Cicatrix
Cicatrix 12 years ago

"where as women can persue other interests and put them first in their lives while getting no reprimand . "
Uh-definitely NOT in my old congregation! I was reprimanded for all of my "sins" and my unbelieving husbands as well!!
 
hybridous
hybridous 12 years ago

Maybe I'm the only one to think this....
I believe the WT absolutely loves the Williams sisters. The society needs high-profile, successful people to at least claim to be JWs. It helps to negate the (accurate) perception that this is a cult. The Williams sisters lend public credibility to this thing.
That's why the WT will tolerate the flag-wrapping, and probably a whole lot more from these two - for the sake of the JW image. It's quite interesting to see how much these two can flout the typical dub lifestyle. I'd love to see the WT backed into a corner and have to do someting about the Williams girls. They'd be so reluctant to make any negative move. Venus and Serena do more for the WT public image than a thousand lawyers or spokesmen could.
 
Country Girl
Country Girl 12 years ago

This will get me definitely in the dog house. These girls are SHINING...they are strong, up to date women with goals in mind. That's not WRONG. Imstead we all look to them as something to be shamed... because they are NOT living by the JW technology. We *want* them to be an example of a famous person living against the JW technology, and they don't kick them out. Why can't we look at them as ROLE MODELS? They are JW's and yet they have strong public personas and stll they buck the tide. These girls are STILL Jw's and still they do what they want, and still they aren't kicked out. We always talk about what they DON'T do, but what about what they DO DO? They still are in the religion, and they still having a good, rich, happy, famous, life... and still they are here.
CG
 
heathen
heathen 12 years ago

LMAO @ the mike tyson picture . That poor girl . Well I don't think we will seem them on the cover of WT and awake magazine so I don't know how the rumors got started anyway that they are dubs . The name jehovah is not exclusive to the WTBTS . I've heard some televangelists use it . You may also be right that the WTBTS would rather over look the issue for reasons of public image but WTF why not show the public your true colors?
 
Pinned Blouse
Pinned Blouse 12 years ago

I must say that as a African American woman Serena represents a strong black woman and carrying what the men call a very nice "ba dunka dunk booty" which they LOVE. I do question som of her clothing choices since I think I would have been called into the library for doing such.
 Here is a better picture




A Nice Field Service Outfit LOL

PB
 

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Venus and Serena Williams' Parents Divorce
by Rado Vleugel 13 years ago 9 Replies latest 13 years ago   jw friends
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Rado Vleugel
Rado Vleugel 13 years ago


The parents of the famous Jehovah's Witness tennis sisters have completed their divorce according to the Associated Press.
If you are interested you can read the whole story on http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/ Rado Vleugel
Edited by - Rado Vleugel on 31 October 2002 16:12:53
 
LB
LB 13 years ago

Mom is even going to give up the Williams name, interesting.
 
Makena1
Makena1 13 years ago


Perhaps it was Oracene's new hairstyle that pushed things over the edge?
; )

All best,
Mak
 
blondie
blondie 13 years ago


Since the mother says there would be no reconciliation, I would venture to guess that the her husband was unfaithful. I wonder if it is a scriptural divorce, that is, she could prove the unfaithfulness to the body of elders?
Blondie (who is not surprised)
 
Mulan
Mulan 13 years ago

Hey Mak, we saw her at Nordstroms in West Palm Beach last Spring. Her head was practically shaved, with her gray hair just in really short curls..........1/2 inch maybe. Is that what you mean? She is a striking woman, at least 6 feet tall.
 
Brummie
Brummie 13 years ago


Congrats to Mrs Williams, that cowardice guy used to beat her up! Perhaps now she can live in peace!
Brummie
 
Makena1
Makena1 13 years ago


Hi Mulan - never saw the shaved head style. I was thinking of the huge blonde/red hair she had at Wimbledon and maybe the US Open. Was probably a wig - awful in my opinion - but to each his or her own. You are right - she is quite striking though.

Mak
 
Nathan Natas
Nathan Natas 13 years ago


Here are some more links for this story. It seems, oddly enough, to be about MONEY...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20021030/ap_on_sp_te_ne/ten_williams_parents_1
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20021029/ap_on_sp_te_ne/ten_williams_divorce_1
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,5372774%255E13780,00.html
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,5372774%255E401,00.html
 
kenpodragon
kenpodragon 13 years ago


My parents divorced after I moved out, I thought it would be something to accept easy. Yet it was really hard, so I always feel for the children in times like this.
My thought
Dragon
 
kelpie
kelpie 13 years ago


I am so far behind the news.. I didnt even know that the williams twins were witnesses..

Needs to catch up with the times I think
My sister divorced her husband because he commited adultery and she still had to go on restrictions because of it. Couldnt answer any questions on marriage etc. Go Figure
 

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famous witnesses
by finnrot 14 years ago 3 Replies latest 14 years ago   jw friends
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finnrot
finnrot 14 years ago


I was lurking through old threads when I came accross one that mentioned Prince as being a current witness.... what!! Are you kidding me, I had no idea. Has he always been a witness, or did he become one and that was the explanation for his music becoming lame?
I know a smattering of Jacksons are supposed to be Witnesses and I even heard that Venus and Serena Williams mother is a Witness. When I was a teenager I used to watch a show called Get Christy Love, with a sexy blach chick named Theresa Graves, remember her? That was around the mid 70's. I remember reading somewhere that she had become a witness, I wonder what she's doing now?
Does anybody know if there is a list of famous, ex-famous and semi-famous witness out there? I bet I wouldn't be the only one interested in seeing that. Oh, and I heard Vanity turned witness, I wonder if Prince did that.
Also, what are these people doing now. Like Theresa Graves, Vanity, the black chick from saved by the bell, et all.
 
rhett
rhett 14 years ago


A few years back Larry Grahm opened for Prince. Back then Prince was still doing one of the best live shows in the world (in my opinion, and I've been to a lot of concerts). Larry Grahm is a JW. Prince always thought Grahm was an excellent musician and apparently Grahm was able to use that as a way to brainwash him.
I don't need to fight
To prove I'm right
I don't need to be forgiven.
 
jolly_green_giant
jolly_green_giant 14 years ago

Prince has been associated with the Jw for a couple years now. Actually he may even be baptised but im not 100% sure. Apparently he's "preaching the good news" at his concerts. Many of his fans appear to be disturbed and even offended, because of this, according the message boards on his website.
 
rekless
rekless 14 years ago


Dwayne Blackwell, co writer of the songs..."I got friends in low Places",song by Garth Brooks "Mr. Blue" (1959 # 1 hit) "I'm Gonna Hire a Wino to decorate our Home." "No Body Stop In This Town".
He and I were friends when we lived both lived in Clearlake, Ca. We use to go out in field service together his family and mine.
Rekless
"truth and thornes both hurt!" a famous quote
 

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Famous JWs vs famous Mormons
by undercover 11 years ago 23 Replies latest 11 years ago   jw friends
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undercover
undercover 11 years ago


Famous JWs or influenced by JWs:
Michael Jackson(used to be)
Prince(for now)
Serena Williams(claims)
Venus Williams(claims)
Wayans family(grew up in it)
Mickey Spillane(converted)
Quite a few colorful characters there.
Famous Mormons:
Donny Osmond
Marie Osmond
um....any others? Any worth mentioning anyway?
From my limited perspective, it seems the JWs have more trouble keeping their famous members on the straight and narrow compared to the Mormons.
 
Stefanie
Stefanie 11 years ago


?

Wayans family(grew up in it)
GET OUT!  I didnt know that.. lmao

Well, I thank goodness they got out, because they are very funny.
 
gerbils
gerbils 11 years ago

You forgot the guy from the shadows!
 
undercover
undercover 11 years ago



Wayans family(grew up in it)
GET OUT!  I didnt know that.. lmao
That's what I'm told anyway....
(you're not gonna hit me like Elaine does in Seinfeld when she says GET OUTA HERE! are ya?)
 
under74
under74 11 years ago

ricky schroder converted to mormonism...I heard gladys knight did too.
 
undercover
undercover 11 years ago


ricky schroder converted to mormonism...
Now there's a freak if there ever was one....lol
 
Stefanie
Stefanie 11 years ago





(you're not gonna hit me like Elaine does in Seinfeld when she says GET OUTA HERE! are ya?)
I used to crack up when she did that bit.
 
pr_capone
pr_capone 11 years ago


Info taken from http://www.adherents.com/largecom/fam_jw.html
Kansas District Overbeer
 
pr_capone
pr_capone 11 years ago


Here is some mormons
Kansas District Overbeer
P.S. What a farking shame that Eliza Dusku is wasting away with the LDS.
 
Mulan
Mulan 11 years ago

Ken Jennings is a Mormon.
 
undercover
undercover 11 years ago


Thanks for the lists pr.....
The Mormon bunch doesn't stack up to the JWs as far as newsworthiness or flashiness. Seems a bit odd, that the JWs are so "worldly".
 
Aude_Sapere
Aude_Sapere 11 years ago


Phil Ingram (James Ingram's brother) is JW pioneer
Mira Sorvino's mother 'studied' for many years (I don't think she ever got baptized)
 
Aude_Sapere
Aude_Sapere 11 years ago


Phil from Paul Revere and the Raiders
he was also known as the Baby Raider
Phil something... Forget his last name
 
Brummie
Brummie 11 years ago

My best freind Gladys Knight  is a mormon! How can a black female with the voice of an angel become a mormon????? There is no justice in the world! Didnt anyone tell her how they viewed black females up until the 70s? darn.
 
franklin J
franklin J 11 years ago

all these famous JWs must think of themselves like "Queen Esther" from the book of the old testament
 
ColdRedRain
ColdRedRain 11 years ago

I heard that the creators of South Park are former LDS'ers.
 
undercover
undercover 11 years ago


I heard that the creators of South Park are former LDS'ers.
That would definately trump our Prince and Williams sisters. Makes sense too. South Park has made more than one episode making fun of the Mormons. I've been waiting for them to turn their attention to the JWs.
 
catchthis
catchthis 11 years ago

Don't forget to add Dave Mustaine, lead singer and guitarist of Megadeth, was raised a witness in La Mesa, CA.
 
TresHappy
TresHappy 11 years ago

I remember reading somewhere that Larry King is raising his 2 boys in the Mormon faith....his wife Shawn is a devout Mormon.
 
jws
jws 11 years ago


I heard that the creators of South Park are former LDS'ers
My guess is that might be true of Trey Parker, but I thought Matt Stone was Jewish. I thought he was basically the model for Kyle.

As mentioned above, Steve Young (former SF 49ers QB) is a mormon. He's also a descendant of Brigham Young.
I also thought former Chicago Bears (Eagles, Vikings, Chargers, Packers) QB, Jim McMahon of Super Bowl 20 fame was also a Mormon.

We know who all the famous JWs and ex-JWs are because we pick up on those sorts of things and remember them. If somebody famous says they're a JW, the buzz races through congregations. We either hear it from JWs or maybe we spot it in some article. It stands out to us. We do not do that for Mormons. If somebody famous says they're a Mormon, our ears aren't going to prick up. For all we know, some of the wildest, most vulgar performers are/were Mormons. We just don't know it. So I wouldn't say famous JWs are any different from famous Mormons without a more comprehensive list.
 

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Famous JWs vs famous Mormons
by undercover 11 years ago 23 Replies latest 11 years ago   jw friends
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undercover
undercover 11 years ago


So I wouldn't say famous JWs are any different from famous Mormons without a more comprehensive list.
I'll take Prince over Donny and Marie anyday...
 
HappyDad
HappyDad 11 years ago


I remember hearing a tape that was being passed around a number of years ago. (JW's love to think they are associated with famous people) by a "brother" Reynolds. He was part of the group Hamilton, Joe, Frank and Renolds who had a few megahits in the mid to late 1970's. In his talk he talked about leaving the music scene for something better. He even did a music skit in this talk that started his career. In the 1960's there was a TV commercial for........if my mind serves me right........something for the stomach. (what shape your stomach's in) The little "ditty" was just an instrumental percussion in the commercial that went something like.........(and I'm trying to put words to percussion)..........tutty-tutty-ta-ta..ta-tutty-ta-ta.
Yeah.......I know! You all are going to try and have me committed now.
HappyDad
 
Swan
Swan 11 years ago


Karen Carpenter
Even today, years after her death, I get verklempt when I hear her songs. She had a marvelous voice.
Tammy
 
TresHappy
TresHappy 11 years ago

I think the Carpenters were Methodists.
 

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Topic Summary
famous jws or influenced by jws:.
michael jackson(used to be).
prince(for now).



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Love your site!
by toota 12 years ago 18 Replies latest 12 years ago   jw friends
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toota
toota 12 years ago

I stumbled on this site by accident ( I was trying to find a recipe believe it or not.) and have spent hours reading threads here.
I was raised as a Roman Catholic with a Catholic mother and Protestant father. In the 40's, my parents weren't allowed to marry in the Catholic church unless they signed an agreement that all of their children would be raised as Catholic. From the age of 6, I attended catechism every Monday until I made my First Communion and finally my Confirmation at age 12. The final chapter of my Catholic experience was when the Tribunal allowed my ex husband to have our marriage annulled.
Although I was traumatized by those experiences, I've always felt spiritually connected until....in my search for answers (in the 50's and 60's the Roman Catholic church recited everything in latin) regarding the Bible, I was introduced to Jehovah's Witnesses through a distant cousin.
For over two years, I studied and asked questions, attended various meetings, studies and social gatherings. I found the studies pretty interesting and would have quite happily and most likely continued studying, but things began to appear insidious with this unyielding pressure to be baptized and I found myself losing my sense of spirituality. I was devastated by this sense of loss and the people I was studying with seemed surprised that this was happening to me. They were not curious as to why, but I knew it was because I was being made to feel unworthy, not unlike the Catholic rearing I'd had as a child. I had alienated my family and friends and felt very much alone.
I left them ten years ago, and have gradually become agnostic. The irony of discovering this site has not been lost on me and I'm delighted to have found you!
Thank you, one and all!
Toota
 
patio34
patio34 12 years ago

Well, hello Toota,
What a very nice introduction and story! I was raised Catholic, but became a Jehovah's Witness for 28 years.  But 3 years ago, "woke up." I'm pretty much an atheist, I guess, since I don't believe in God, lol.
Well, I'm looking forward to more of your posts and hope you enjoy the forum. Personally, it's the only one I've found that I really like. I've met several of the people here, including Simon, the proprietor, and they're great.  We have get-togethers pretty often in different parts of the world.
Pat
 
ohiocowboy
ohiocowboy 12 years ago

Hello there, and a BIG welcome to you!!!
My family was also Catholic, until I was age 6, and my family joined the JW's. I think you will find a lot of neat stuff on this site, Some Serious, some fun, and some just plain crazy-(In a good sorta way!!!)
CJ
 
Purza
Purza 12 years ago

Welcome Toota!
I hope you will find some good discussion and insights here. I know I have.
 
seeitallclearlynow
seeitallclearlynow 12 years ago

Hi Toota and welcome to the forum! I agree - what a FIND! Looking forward to hearing more from you.
 
Leolaia
Leolaia 12 years ago

Hey toota! It's great to have you on board. If you want to weigh in on any of these threads, we would love to hear your point of view from both your Catholic experience and from what you saw as you studied with the witnesses.
Here is a post from today you may have seen that reminded me of what you just wrote:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/71018/1123830/post.ashx#1123830
 
Corvin
Corvin 12 years ago

Welcome Toota! Make yourself at home. We'll leave the (new) light on for you.
Corvin
 
toota
toota 12 years ago

Thanks for the link Leolaia,
When I moved to the city I live in now, the JW's here periodically knocked on my door. It took two visits for them to stop coming here.
I wasn't rude, but I let them know that the emptiness in my life happened because they had helped me alienate my friends and family; I could fix that by admitting I acted stupidly and ask for their forgiveness. The heart wrenching emptiness in my soul however, was another matter and to debate it with scripture was insulting.
I was never able to understand how they could seem so wise and welcoming and yet so insensitive.
Thank you Corvin for leaving the light on for me.
 
Frannie Banannie
Frannie Banannie 12 years ago

Welcome to the JWD Forum, Toota! So happy to have you here....you're story is very interesting....I started out as a Catholic, was in the borganization (WTS) for about 20 yrs. and now am agnostic, but that's moot, too...heh
I'm so glad you found this site and hope you truly enjoy all the wonderful personalities of the fun-loving and caring ppl on this board, chere!
Looking fwd to hearing more from ya!
Frannie B
 
blondie
blondie 12 years ago

Welcome, toota. It's nice to know that JWD attracts people like you. I was an "active" JW when I first came here, now inactive and have faded away. I find a lot to support and encourage me here.
Blondie, glad you found us
 
Country Girl
Country Girl 12 years ago

Hi Toota! What a great story... thanks for coming to the site, even if by accident! Hope you enjoy the community!
CG
 
Strawberryfieldsforever
Strawberryfieldsforever 12 years ago

Welcome Toota!
I was raised a JW and left about 13 plus years ago. What a change to my life! It's nice to be part of the "world". The only bad thing is that most of my family is still in there and don't have much to do with me.
Strawberryfieldsforever
 
xjw_b12
xjw_b12 12 years ago


Never know what you're going to find on a search engine !
BTW did you find the recipie you were looking for?
 
Elsewhere
Elsewhere 12 years ago

I was never able to understand how they could seem so wise and welcoming and yet so insensitive.
Welcome!
I don't think I could have put that better myself.
I'm very curious though... what search words for a recipe did you put into the search engine to get a response about JW's?
 
ApagaLaLuz
ApagaLaLuz 12 years ago

Hi Toota. Thanks for the kind Words. It's amazing how religion can bring different people together

p.s. I have a fabulous recipe for Abondigas soup if you want it
 
Valis
Valis 12 years ago

Welcome toots!
Sincerely,
District Overbeer
 
Kenneson
Kenneson 12 years ago

Hi Toota,
I was baptized Catholic, but became a JW in 1958. Left them in 1966 and returned to the Church. I'm still Catholic today and am quite content.
Welcome!
 
Sunnygal41
Sunnygal41 12 years ago

Welcome to the Happy Apostatoe Forum, Toota!!!
I'm DF'd myself, and been out for over 5 years. My sister and mother are still "slaves" to the WTS.........but, I have hope one day that they will see thru the crap and leave.
Terri
 
lovinlife
lovinlife 12 years ago

Welcome!!!
 

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Three lies more from the Jehova´s Witnesses
by ServetMiguel 14 years ago 7 Replies latest 14 years ago   watchtower scandals
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ServetMiguel
ServetMiguel 14 years ago


Please check the quotation below taken from Let Your Kingdom Come page 115.
*** kc 115 12 The "Last Days" and the Kingdom *** The First World War was one of the great convulsions of history.Barbara Tuchman, The Guns of August, 1962

What the original quotation say? Well, here you are:

A full bibliography of the subject would fill a book. No other episode in history has been more documented by its participants. They seem to have known, while they lived it, that like the French Revolution, the First World War was one of the great convulsions of history, and each felt the hand of history heavily on his own shoulder.


I believe that the Society is trying to tell us another different thing. The quotation from the Kingdom Come does not say what Barbara Tuchman had in her mind. The Society wants us to believe that the major point in history was the I World War. But this lady says that the French Revolution was as important as the First War in history. Furthermore, was the discovery of fire a turning point in mankind history? What about the discovery of the wheel? And what about the discovery of the scripture? Or the JesusChrists life? Or what about the fall of roman empire? Or the discovery of America or the discovery of the printing? What about of the Industrial Revolution or the Atomic bombs or even internet? Saying that there is one major turning point in history, the First World War, is childless and useless.

From the book Reasoning will take the following:

*** rs 89 Cross *** Cross
Definition: The device on which Jesus Christ was executed is referred to by most of Christendom as a cross. The expression is drawn from the Latin crux.
Why do Watch Tower publications show Jesus on a stake with hands over his head instead of on the traditional cross?
The Greek word rendered cross in many modern Bible versions (torture stake in NW) is stauros'. In classical Greek, this word meant merely an upright stake, or pale. Later it also came to be used for an execution stake having a crosspiece. The Imperial Bible-Dictionary acknowledges this, saying: The Greek word for cross, [stauros'], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. . . . Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole.Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p. 376.

As you noted the points between ground and Even? they suspicious, are not they? Are you interested what the Imperial Bible Dictionary says? Well, keep reading:

The Greek word for cross, [stauros'], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. But a modification was introduced as the dominion and usages of Rome extended themselves through Greek speaking countries. Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole, and this always remained the more prominent part. But from the time that it began to be used as an instrument of punishment, a transverse piece of wood was commonly added: not, however, always even then. [] There can be no doubt, however, that the latter sort was the more common, and that about the period of the gospel age crucifixion was usually accomplished by suspending the criminal on a cross piece of wood.


If you continue reading the whole page they say that early chriatian as a symbol of Christ, they used to draw a cross.
You may notice that the Dictionary does not agree with the Society idea about Jesus dying in a simple pole or stake.

Continuing with the old doctrine about earthquake, we will quote the book Live on a paradise on earth.

*** pe 151 18 "The End of the World" Is at Hand! *** THERE WILL BE . . . EARTHQUAKES IN ONE PLACE AFTER ANOTHER.Matthew 24:7.
From 1914 until now, there have been many more major earthquakes than in any other like period in recorded history. For over 1,000 years, from the year 856 C.E. to 1914, there were only 24 major earthquakes, causing some 1,973,000 deaths. But in the 63 years from 1915 to 1978, a total of some 1,600,000 persons died in 43 great earthquakes.

I wrote to the International Seismological Centre in England and I sent the paragraph above and I asked the following questions:

1 According to your records, is this quotation correct?
2 Is the reason that more earthquakes are reported in recent history due to better research units such as yours?
3 According to your figures has there been an increase in earthquake activity since 1914?
4 If more people are dying today from earthquakes, is this related to the increase in world population?

Here you are the answer:

Thank you for your letter dated 1996 September 30th quoting earthquake statistics from the
Watchtower Bible & Tract Society.
First of all, the importance of World War I to seismology was that instruments and particularly
timing systems were developed so that earthquakes could be accurately located and quantified.
With this monitoring work reliable and detailed statistics on earthquakes and fatalities were derived.
Another significant fact is the huge increase in the world population in the 20th Century .As the
statistics on the occurrence of earthquakes and fata1ities before this time are less reliable than at
present and with the large changes in population, I believe it makes it impossible to make a
comparison between the numbers of events and loss of life before and after 1914.
Therefore in answer to your specific questions:-
1. I do not believe the comparison mentioned above is possible.
2. The reason for so many more earthquakes being detected is the large deployment of
seismometers presently around the world to monitor them.
3. There have been short-term increases and decreases in global seismic activity since 1914 but
over this time period it is not possible to say that there have been more or less earthquakes than the
present average.
4. It is true that many more people are living in seismic areas due to the increase in population.
Finally you ask for a source of information on major earthquakes and casualties. The Nationa1
Geophysica1 Data Center (NGDC) of the US National Oceanographic and Atmospheric
Administration (NOAA), Boulder, Colorado produced a Catalog of Significant Earthquakes
2150BC-1991AD in 1992 September. This probably can be borrowed from the National Lending
Library , Boston Spa, Lincs.
Yours sincerely,

Anthony A Hughes

I do not to add anything else.

Check again this quotation in the book Reasoning:

*** rs 236 Last Days *** There will be great earthquakes (Luke 21:11)
It is true that there were major quakes in centuries past; furthermore, with their sensitive equipment scientists now detect more than a million quakes a year. But no special instruments are needed for people to know when there is a great earthquake.
Has there actually been a significant number of major earthquakes since 1914? With data obtained from the National Geophysical Data Center in Boulder, Colorado, supplemented by a number of standard reference works, a tabulation was made in 1984 that included only earthquakes that measured 7.5 or more on the Richter scale, or that resulted in destruction of five million dollars (U.S.) or more in property, or that caused 100 or more deaths. It was calculated that there had been 856 of such earthquakes during the 2,000 years before 1914. The same tabulation showed that in just 69 years following 1914 there were 605 of such quakes. That means that, in comparison with the previous 2,000 years, the average per year has been 20 times as great since 1914.

I wrote to the National Geophysical Data Center in Boulder, Colorado and ordered the catalogue from which the Society took her figures and this is what the catalogue says in the caveat:

Caveat: Erroneous statistical conclusions can be drawn from the numbers of earthquakes taken from Catalog of Significant Earthquakes, 2150 B.C. -1991 A.D. The reporting of large or destructive earthquakes is not homogeneous in space or time. particularly for periods prior to the 1900s. Because this publication mainly lists those earthquakes that have caused death or damage. the number of earthquake reports is dependent on the written history available for a particular region. as well as on the rate of development of population centers and related structures. Therefore. it is misleading to use the numbers of significant earthquakes in that publication to suggest statistically that there has been an increase in worldwide seismic activity since 1900 or for any time period The following observations must be taken into account when looking at that apparent" increase in activity:
Instrumental seismology is a young science. The first calibrated instruments to measure seismic waves travelling through the earth did not appear until the late 1800s. At that time. seismologists became aware of the vast numbers of earthquakes occurring throughout the world. but because of the insensitivity of their instruments they were able to locate only the large magnitude events.
The 1960s saw two major advances. First. a network of seismological observatories was installed by the United States Government. principally to monitor underground nuclear tests. These sensitive instruments could detect and identify earthquakes anywhere in the world from about magnitude 4.5.
Second, computers became available in the late 1960s. Computers allowed seismologists to leave inaccurate and cumbersome graphical methods of locating earthquakes. and to process the increasing volume of new network data more rapidly than ever before. Prior to 1962. on1y hundreds of earthquake epicentres were determined each year by Government and academic institutions. but the number increased to the thousands using computerized location methods. In some special local studies. more than 100.000 earthquakes per year were identified and located
In summary, using the data in Catalog of Significant Earthquakes, 2150 B.C.- 1991 A.D. to suggest that there has been an increase in worldwide earthquake activity is misleading and erroneous. The above observations and reporting factors must also be considered when making statistical studies based on that historical data report.
I believe that the Society is a Lord of Deceiving. I can not understand how there are people in her ranks.
 
battman
battman 14 years ago


Thank you very much for delivering "meat in due
season". LOL
I appreciate impaling the "dubs" with their own words.
battman
 
amac
amac 14 years ago

Great work again! I really enjoyed the second quote and learning it's true context. I do think the first one is a stretch, however, since the WT did include "one of the great convulsions." So it does not seem that they were trying to say it was the only one. Nevertheless, I enjoy this research you have done.
 
Gopher
Gopher 14 years ago


Thanks for that sharing that fine research! The two on the LAST DAYS particularly intrigue me, since the last days theology seems to drive a lot of the actions of Jehovah's Witnesses. 1914 is still a great article of faith that the JW"s hinge a lot of their ideas on.
The "last days" idea helped prevent many of us JW's from getting advanced education and planning for our financial futures. Others have put off things like marriage and families due to this notion. Now 88 years after 1914, what good has the "last days" fervor done? (I guess if you enjoy the ascetic life style, then this "live for the new order" idea is right up your alley.)
If one is truly a Christian, then they would not keep looking for the day and hour that the "end" is supposed to arrive. Such a search would be opposite to a Christian's trust that it'll come whenever it's God's time.
 
TheOldHippie
TheOldHippie 14 years ago


I really don't understand the importance of the "cross thing"; to me, if He died on a cross or on a stake - the important thing is that He died and was resurrected. I have never bothered to try to tell people it was a stake, not a cross. On the other hand, a preast I went visiting once a week for half a year, and I agreed upon the thought that IF Christianity /Christians should have a symbol of any kind, it ought to have been something showing the opened grave - something like a "globe" or "ball", where the front part was partly covered, partly opened by a flat "stone" rolled half-way away from it.
The earthquake thing has been abandoned, as you will see in later articles - it died peacefully during the early 90s approximately, although shadows of it still linger. There will be issued in december a revised edition of the Reasoning book, and no doubt the importance of the earthquakes will be nowhere to be found.
The first quote I don't find disturbing - in the sense that the author said what she is quoted as saying, and that the quote represents her opinion - she does not mean "the most important moment", but "one of the most", and so does the quote say.
 
Farkel
Farkel 14 years ago


: They seem to have known, while they lived it, that like the French Revolution, the First World War was one of the great convulsions of history, and each felt the hand of history heavily on his own shoulder.


The WTS certainly thought so. Up until at least 1930 they taught that the "Last Days" began in 1799, due to Napoleon's Revolution.

Of course, the WTS wouldn't DARE quote that fact. That's because they are devious snakes.

Farkel


 
Wolfgirl
Wolfgirl 14 years ago

Thank you for this.  The info about the cross was one of my niggling doubts, and the earthquake stuff never rang true for me.
 
Leolaia
Leolaia 14 years ago


I've done a great deal of research on the cross. You just scratched the surface on the WT's dishonesty on this subject. If anyone is interested to see what I found, let me know and I'll post some of it in this forum.
Leolaia
 

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MANY PBS STATIONS WON'T SHOW KNOCKING !
by DannyHaszard 9 years ago 79 Replies latest 5 years ago   watchtower scandals
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DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

SOME PBS STATIONS WON'T SHOW KNOCKING  Even though KNOCKING is scheduled for a national PBS broadcast on May
22, 2007, as many as one-quarter of local PBS stations will not show
KNOCKING. Local stations are allowed to replace the national PBS schedule with
their
own programming. If you DON'T want to see KNOCKING on your local station, you
must : Contact your local programming director to make sure he does cancel
KNOCKING. To learn why some PBS stations won't show KNOCKING and to
ensure
that your local station will, visit this link: http://www.knocking.org/PBS_Station_List.html

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/123713/1.ashx newest knocking thread Nov 8 2006 http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/107698/7.ashx original ongoing JWD knocking thread dvd_cover_800.jpg
 
Knocking Documentary Project - DVD orders
A written 48-page study and discussion guide comes with each DVD. It provides in-depth historical and social analysis. Extra copies can be downloaded from ...www.knocking.org/dvd_orders.lasso - 24k -  Cached - Similar pages
 The Knocking "documentary" IS A WATCHTOWER CULT PROPAGANDA PUFF PIECE FROM THE GET GO  Excerpt from the Knocking website--"..This
will include the longer film festival version, plus 3 hours of extra
video
material and a 48-page printed study guide. More details to come." IT COMES WITH A "48 PAGE STUDY GUIDE" This has Watchtower authorship and production all over it.
 
Gill
Gill 9 years ago

Danny - I think that the PBS 'Knocking' programme should be shown.
I've just watched the excerpts on YouTube and to be honest it does appear to be just propaganda.
HOWEVER, publicity is essential to make the WTBTS and JWs a talking point.
Once their opinion is given, normal everyday, nonbrainwashed people tend to ask for the opposing oppinion and that's when the dirty linen of the WTBTS can be aired in publice and possibly get even more air time than the original sanitised view of JWs.
JWs are NOT an issue with people at the moment. People in general to not give two hoots about the silly cult. BUT, if their attention can be diverted to the WTBTS and a spotlight shone on the bOrg, the cracks may well appear when rational people ask for the opposing view.
To me, I think it is a risk worth taking.
Let's put the WTBTS under the spotlight and make its faults and cracks become apparant.
Let them make the first move and then those that oppose the lies of the WTBTS can jump in to fill in all the gaps.
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago


Danny - I think that the PBS 'Knocking' programme should be shown.
I've just watched the excerpts on YouTube and to be honest it does appear to be just propaganda.
HOWEVER, publicity is essential to make the WTBTS and JWs a talking point.
Once their opinion is given, normal everyday, nonbrainwashed people tend to ask for the opposing oppinion and that's when the dirty linen of the WTBTS can be aired in publice and possibly get even more air time than the original sanitised view of JWs.
JWs are NOT an issue with people at the moment. People in general to not give two hoots about the silly cult. BUT, if their attention can be diverted to the WTBTS and a spotlight shone on the bOrg, the cracks may well appear when rational people ask for the opposing view.
To me, I think it is a risk worth taking.
Let's put the WTBTS under the spotlight and make its faults and cracks become apparant.
Let them make the first move and then those that oppose the lies of the WTBTS can jump in to fill in all the gaps.
Well said mate
 
Satans little helper
Satans little helper 9 years ago

I agree, freedom of speech cuts both ways.
It may also do a couple of things, it may open the field for criticism - bringing them back on the radar, and also expose the many half truths they tell to bamboozle people.
 
5go
5go 9 years ago

fundalmentelism and freedom meeting at the door and kill each other. That's what the tagline should be.
Yah I agree let the public see this it will cause them to look into them and of course find this place where we can tell them the truth about the truth. In fact that they call themselves the truth should turn people off.
I think the fact they use martyrs in one of taglines should tell people what they are.
Martyrs flew planes on 911 as well just not the type we think are good for civilation.
Funny they say their not racist I know a black kingdomhall that would disagree.
 
J-ex-W
J-ex-W 9 years ago

Well, I guess the apostates/ opposers better get cracking to PROVIDE that view of the opposing side, once 'KNOCKING' does air. Too many people go the other way and think, "Oh, this group has been publicly maligned. Poor group!" [I know, because I was one of those woefully under-informed people.] Does anyone have means/ wherewithal to produce such a video rebuttal?
 
Gopher
Gopher 9 years ago

Well, I guess the apostates/ opposers better get cracking to PROVIDE that view of the opposing side, once 'KNOCKING' does air.
We already provide that view - here and on other websites.
Certain people may be fooled into thinking the JW's are misunderstood, beneficial to society, whatever. Yet the resources are there (in areas where this video is being broadcast) for people to learn about the background and dysfunctionality of the WT Society and local Kingdom Halls. The internet is neutralizing the message of JW's, because people can easily Google "Watchtower" or "Jehovah's Witnesses" or even "Jehovah Witnesses" and find out the real deal.
 
Bodhisattva1320
Bodhisattva1320 9 years ago

thanks for the informative thread- i just used the 'Knocking' web site to find my local PBS channel's email to request they NOT PLAY CULT PROPOGANDA!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHA
 
J-ex-W
J-ex-W 9 years ago

The only problem is, Internet is also very limited in some respects: Too many don't have easy access to Internet, or Internet access at all, but they may have public television (which is piped in for free). I was one of those who lived without Internet access for most of my JW years and most of my single years since.
Not until I went to school again (and had to learn computer alongside my subjects) did I get access, and then really only for school. I only got it in my home about a month or so ago, and may not afford to keep it up once I move in a few weeks.
Public TV and other FREE mediums are essential forums for the apostate view to reach as many people as well. After all, the WT uses resources (mags, etc.) that are FREE for the public to obtain. Too many don't get the apostate message because Internet is the most used medium by them (as far as I know).
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

KNOCKING is  scheduled for a national PBS broadcast on May
22, 2007
 
truthsetsonefree
truthsetsonefree 9 years ago

Sometimes PBS broadcasts opposing views. I wonder if they would here? Maybe in a broadcast, or by directing people to come to forums like this one for a balanced perspective.
tsof
 
rebel8
rebel8 9 years ago

j-ex-w: Exactly--many people in a nearby rural area can't even get Internet access or cable--they can get 2 TV stations by antenna. They do get PBS, so you can imagine with little other TV available and no Internet, they watch PBS constantly. A colleague of mine was recently on PBS talking about a kinda boring topic actually, but you wouldn't believe how many people saw it. We got tons of phone calls & people mentioning it--we figured it was just because they didn't have the option of watching anything else.
I don't understand why the Knocking site is asking jws to check with their local stations. Mine doesn't have their schedule posted that far in advance. I will write to them, but they will probably wonder since I'm complaining about something that hasn't even been announced yet.
All too often, people accept what they see on TV without using their logic. People especially love to hear tales of the everyday man being persecuted by the powers that be. At face value, this documentary appears to be unbiased IMO. Then the next time there's a knock on their door, they're more likely to be drawn into that destructive cult.
From the Knocking site (gag me with a spoon):

MAKE SURE PBS SHOWS KNOCKING IN YOUR CITY
Contact your local station and request they show KNOCKING as scheduled on the PBS series “Independent Lens.” The episode of “Independent Lens” that features KNOCKING is supposed to be shown nationwide on Tuesday May 22, 2007 at 10pm.
Click here to see a good example of a letter that someone sent. To send your letter, find your local PBS station by clicking on this link:http://www.pbs.org/stationfinder/index.html


WHY WILL SOME PBS STATIONS NOT SHOW KNOCKING?“PBS” is a loose affiliation of more than 300 member stations. Each PBS affiliate is independent. That means the programming director at your local PBS station has the power to change or ignore the national broadcast schedule arranged by the PBS headquarters in Arlington, Virginia. If your local programming director deems, for whatever reason, that a particular show won’t be of interest to his local community, he can cancel it or move it to the middle of the night. Some local programming directors might not know much about Jehovah’s Witnesses. They might erroneously assume there are not many Jehovah’s Witnesses in their city, and therefore feel there is no reason to show KNOCKING. Other programming directors might get a skewed impression that the community does not want to see KNOCKING, based on only receiving negative calls and letters about Jehovah’s Witnesses. They may have never heard from actual Jehovah’s Witnesses.
WHAT CAN YOU DO?Tell the programming director at your local PBS station that you are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Let him know that your city has a vibrant Jehovah’s Witnesses community. And tell him that you would like to see your story told on public television. It is, after all, the mission of PBS to tell everyone’s story, especially those who are misunderstood or ignored by commercial media.
WHAT IF YOU ARE NOT ONE OF JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES?If you have a friend, family member, co-worker, classmate or neighbor who is one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, let your local PBS station know about it. The more non-Witness viewers who express interest in seeing KNOCKING, the more likely your PBS station will show it.
WHAT SHOULD YOU SAY?Above all, be polite and positive. This will be refreshing since most calls and letters to PBS stations are from angry people demanding something.
1. Say that you are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in your city, or you know someone who is.
2. Explain that you are interested in seeing the documentary on Jehovah’s Witnesses called KNOCKING, which is scheduled to be shown on the PBS series “Independent Lens” May 22, 2007.
3. Ask whether your local station carries the PBS series “Independent Lens.” If the answer is no, say you are surprised: “Independent Lens” is an Emmy Award-winning documentary series hosted by Academy Award-nominated actor Terrence Howard. This season, nearly 80% of all PBS affiliates will broadcast the popular series. Express your desire that your local PBS station, at the very least, show the episode of “Independent Lens” that features KNOCKING on May 22, 2007.
4. If your PBS station does carry the series “Independent Lens,” request that they show the episode that features KNOCKING on May 22, 2007 – and at a reasonable hour. Nationally, KNOCKING will be shown at 10pm on Tuesday May 22, 2007.
5. Don’t forget to thank your PBS station for considering your request. Let the station know you appreciate having the opportunity to see your story told on public television.
WHERE DO YOU WRITE OR CALL?Find your local PBS station by clicking on the following link:
http://www.pbs.org/stationfinder/index.html
You’ll be asked to enter your zip code or state, and then a list of local PBS stations serving your area will appear. A general mailing address, phone number and email address will be listed. You can also connect directly to your local station’s web site. There, you may be able to find more detailed information, such as the name of your local programming director.
Remember that the volume of letters/calls counts. A programming director is more apt to listen if he sees 50 letters versus 5. Ask your friends to send letters or make calls – but always in their own words. Sending form letters that say the same thing is not effective.
A NOTE ON NEUTRALITYThe producers of KNOCKING know that Jehovah’s Witnesses are neutral when it comes to most non-theocratic matters. Indeed, KNOCKING goes to great lengths to document this neutral stand. So we understand if some Jehovah’s Witnesses would choose not to contact their local PBS station. But keep in mind that asking your local PBS station to show KNOCKING is not a form of activism or advocacy. It is a request, much like contacting a business seeking a particular service or brand. When your public TV station does not offer the program you want to see, it would be reasonable for you to contact their “customer service department” to ensure your program is locally shown as promised by the national PBS schedule.

 
DevonMcBride
DevonMcBride 9 years ago

Knocking is CNN approved
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/122796/1.ashx
I found the below quote on this website. http://www.newday.com/films/Knocking.html and was surprised to read this review from a well known anchor at CNN


"Riveting and illuminating. KNOCKING takes us inside the world of Jehovah's Witnesses in a way that is utterly surprising and moving."
–Anderson Cooper, CNN
If anyone wants to send a response to Anderson Cooper and let him known the real truth about the Witnesses here is the link to do so. I would hope that CNN will consider doing a story on the pedophile ruling in California. Last year I sent info about the JW blood policy to this link and the producers were very interested, until Hurricane Katrina moved in. Maybe if we all contact them with the truth about "the truth" they will consider again.

http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.html?10
 
heathen
heathen 9 years ago

Yah the apostates can come out with "slamming" showing people slamming the door on the j-dubs. I don't get the point in trying to stop PBS from showing it . I'd like to know how much the WTBTS spent on this project. To the outside the j-dubs look cute and cuddly but until you try being one you have no clue what goes on . We all know how they love bomb at first but then as quick as you can open your bible they take a crap on yah.
 
moshe
moshe 9 years ago

Politicians don't pay any attention to JW's -so, I wonder how many JW's donate to PBS? Very few I bet. Perhaps PBS will listen to the ones who pay the bills before they risk alienating them with the Knocking video. I have an end of false religion tract that I will send to my PBS station and that might help them decide.
 
Madame Quixote
Madame Quixote 9 years ago

Instead of insisting that PBS NOT show Knocking, we should insist that they share balanced, calm, and accurate counterpoint, in the form of other documentaries exposing the already-known abuses.
A counterpoint discussion panel could follow-up the Knocking show, featuring people like Barb Anderson, Bill Bowen, Danny Haszard, and other, lesser-known, every-day ex-JWs, as well as current JWs.
It would make an interesting show - for us, at least.
I doubt many people will watch any of it, anyway. If JWs watch it, they'll turn off the counterpoint, which is what they always do anyway.
 
heathen
heathen 9 years ago

If JWs watch it, they'll turn off the counterpoint, which is what they always do anyway.
No kidding and I bet the people they talk to at the doors in the film are all primed with scenarios that don't include discussing the history of the cult and false prophesy .
 
Madame Quixote
Madame Quixote 9 years ago

Devon McBride,
Thanks for the email addy on the Anderson Cooper discussion of Knocking. I just sent a brief email stating that I wasn't sure if he was talking about the same cult I grew up with - JWs who were a high-control, abusive cult-religion. hopefully others write too.
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

Watchtower cult puff piece from the get-go
(Below is from today's knocking update email.)How many 'neutral' documentaries come with a STUDY GUIDE?
EXTRA STUDY GUIDES
You can print the KNOCKING study guide on your computer for free
(there's a
PDF file on your DVD), but people say they prefer the booklet version
with
its full-color glossy pages. The study guide has become a popular gift
on
its own. Now you can order extra study guide booklets in packs of 5 or
10. To order, visit this link:http://www.knocking.org/DVD.html

-------
This Update is sponsored by Open Door Films, and is provided as a
public
service to support conversations around the film, "Knocking."
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

Lates Knocking news updates

MAKE SURE YOUR PBS STATION DOES NOT SHOW KNOCKING
KNOCKING is scheduled for a national PBS broadcast on May 22, 2007, but
25%
of PBS stations do not carry the series that will feature KNOCKING.
Contact
your local station to find out if it carries the series "Independent
Lens."
Learn more by visiting this link:http://www.knocking.org/PBS_Station_List.html




If you are already on our mailing list, we hope these updates on screenings are helpful. If you don't live near these screenings, please forward this information to friends who do. ORDER KNOCKING ON DVD http://www.knocking.org/DVD.html UPCOMING SCREENINGS OKLAHOMA *Holocaust survivor Joseph Kempler will appear in peson* Saturday March 17, 6:30 pm Lawton, OK Central Middle School Auditorium 1201 Fort Sill Blvd. tickets $4 580-248-9214 admin@lawtoninfo.orghttp://www.360lawton.com/portal/
 TEXAS *Director Joel P. Engardio will appear in person* *Holocaust survivor Joseph Kempler will appear in person* Saturday March 24, 11:45 am Monday March 26, 5:00 pm AFI Dallas International Film Festival (American Film Institute) 214-720-0555 info@afidallas.comhttp://www.afidallas.com/

 FLORIDA *Director Joel P. Engardio will appear in person* Saturday April 14 at 6:30pm Sunday April 15 at 3:30pm Sarasota Film Festival 941-364-9514 http://www.sarasotafilmfestival.com/

FREE ADVANCE SCREENINGS IN 30 CITIES You can see KNOCKING for free at special advance screenings sponsored by PBS! Live panel discussions and Q&A sessions will follow each show. Check the list to see if your city is included: http://www.knocking.org/On_the_Big_Screen.html *NOTE: Florida screening just added to free advance screening list* Miami Beach May 16, Wednesday, 8:30 pm Miami Beach Cinematheque 512 Espanola Way For more info contact: lisa@handsonmiami.org DVD DISCOUNTS Remember, there is a 15% discount if you order 3 or more DVDs. Many friends are placing orders as a group to get the discount and save on shipping. Designate one person to place the order and receive the DVDs. http://www.knocking.org/DVD.htmlMAKE SURE YOUR PBS STATION SHOWS KNOCKING KNOCKING is scheduled for a national PBS broadcast on May 22, 2007, but 25% of PBS stations do not carry the series that will feature KNOCKING. Contact your local station to find out if it carries the series "Independent Lens." Learn more by visiting this link: http://www.knocking.org/PBS_Station_List.html COPYRIGHT REMINDER We appreciate the honesty of viewers who have written to us, asking if it would be OK for them to make copies of the KNOCKING DVD for their friends. We must remind viewers that KNOCKING is copyright protected. It would be illegal to burn KNOCKING DVDs, post any portions of KNOCKING on video sharing web sites, or distribute it via email or iPod.
 The producers of KNOCKING have posted authorized video samples on the free web site YouTube. You can share these video samples with your friends. Feel free to forward the following link: http://www.knocking.org/Video_Highlights.html

KNOCKING can also be seen for free in its entirety during the May 22 national broadcast on PBS and at numerous community screenings in April and May. For those who have already purchased the DVD, we encourage you to have screening parties in your homes for friends and family. We only ask that you do not make illegal copies. If you have any questions or would like to request permission for something, please email us at knockingdirector@msn.com Thank you for your cooperation. ------- This Update is sponsored by Open Door Films, and is provided as a public service to support conversations around the film, "Knocking." If you wish
 

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MANY PBS STATIONS WON'T SHOW KNOCKING !
by DannyHaszard 9 years ago 79 Replies latest 5 years ago   watchtower scandals
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DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

AFI Dallas Review: Knocking
Cinematical, CA - 17 minutes ago
 The documentary Knocking, which screened at AFI Dallas, is all about the Jehovah's Witnesses -- but never slides into preachiness or snarkiness. 
 
BlackSwan of Memphis
BlackSwan of Memphis 9 years ago

I just read through several of the comments that have been posted on the Independant Lens talkback forum.
The comments which are submitted are being screened and I have seen one response which is negative or critical.
All the other responses are quite positive and are being submitted by JW's.
I think that some great points have been raised in regards to freedom of speech working both ways.
I DO think it is very important for you guys to submit your thoughts and experiences to IL, as there are already a few on there which have given me the impression that this movie has done exactly what it set out to do, soften people's hearts and make the JW's seem like a great, harmless religion.
This movie has every right to be seen, but our voices have every right to be heard. So, if you can, please submit your comments and if you dont see them, write IL and tell them!!
Just my thoughts on this, take it or leave it.
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

I just read through several of the comments that have been posted on the Independant Lens talkback forum.
Thanks for the heads up.
What's the link ?
 
Frannie Banannie
Frannie Banannie 9 years ago

Would it be reasonable to ask someone to produce a "Counter-Knocking" docudrama, featuring Ex-jdubyas with their horror stories?
Perhaps this could be worked on for an aposta-festive occasion.
Frannie
 
BlackSwan of Memphis
BlackSwan of Memphis 9 years ago

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/knocking/talkback.html


Would it be reasonable to ask someone to produce a "Counter-Knocking" docudrama, featuring Ex-jdubyas with their horror stories?
Perhaps this could be worked on for an aposta-festive occasion.
I think this is a good idea. I think that someone was tossing around the idea a few months back.
I would do it, if I had a quality cam. So, if anyone wants to donate one......
 
Gayle
Gayle 9 years ago

I do think this PBS documentary (yes, I've seen it) will cause people to listen to JWs when they call at their door next time, and that's all JWs need...and you know the rest of the story. Unfortunately, many are not "internet" people so only will end up listening to JWs.
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

Whoa! Look how the tables have been turned on the TOP JW/WT news subject keywords


AFI Dallas Review: Knocking
Cinematical, CA - 6 hours ago
If A Jehovah's Witness Received An Organ Transplant Or Allowed Their CHILD To Receive A Life Saving Organ Transplant They Were Disfellowshipped. Shunned. ...
AFI Dallas Review: KnockingCinematical
all 6 news articles »
I love the way the google spider news bot crawls 
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/132298/2355006/post.ashx#2355006 More on knocking producer's background as a JW turned gay
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

KNOCKING ANNOUNCEMENTShttp://www.knocking.org/ *Please forward to interested friends not on our mailing list* SEE KNOCKING FOR FREE PBS is sponsoring free advance screenings in theaters throughout May. You can see KNOCKING before theMay 22 television broadcast at special sneak preview events in 30 select cities across the country. There will be a live panel discussion and Q&A with the audience after each screening. Many events will feature lawyers from the American Civil Liberties Union who will speak about the impact on First Amendment freedoms made by Jehovah's Witnesses and their many Supreme Court victories. Director Joel Engardio will appear and answer questions in the following cities: Chicago, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, Philadelphia, Seattle and Miami. For a complete list of cities, dates, times and reservation information (seats are limited and will go fast), click here: http://www.itvs.org/outreach/knocking/ DVD ON SALE You can order DVDs now. The DVD version of KNOCKING is longer than the edited-for-television version that will be broadcast on PBS. The DVD also contains 3 additional hours of extra video material and come with a 48-page printed study guide booklet. There is a 15% discount for orders of three or more DVDs, so order with friends and save. To order, click here: http://www.knocking.org/dvd_home_edition.lasso SARASOTA FILM FESTIVAL KNOCKING is in competition for best documentary feature at the Sarasota Film Festival. If you are in Florida, see KNOCKING in Sarasota April 14 and 15. For ticket information and screening times, click here: http://www.sarasotafilmfestival.com/This+Years+Festival/The+Films-91.htmlKNOCKING ON AOL PBS and AOL have partnered to feature KNOCKING on the AOL "True Stories" series. Visit AOL starting April 16 to see a special KNOCKING web site with free video previews. There will also be blog entries from the directors, experts interviewed in the film and some of the subjects featured in the film. WILL YOUR PBS STATION SHOW KNOCKING? KNOCKING is scheduled to be broadcast nationally Tuesday, May 22 at 10pm on the PBS series Independent Lens. Not all PBS stations carry the series Independent Lens. Call or write your local PBS station to find out if/when KNOCKING will be shown in your area. For more information about contacting your local station, click here: http://www.knocking.org/PBS_Station_List.htmlSTUDY GUIDES SOLD OUT There has been great interest in the 48-page study guide booklet that comes with each DVD. Many have ordered extra study guides in packs of 5 and 10. We have sold out of all the extra packs we had printed. Each new DVD order will still include one study guide, but we won't be able to offer extra study guides until June. ------- This Update is sponsored by Open Door Films, and is provided as a public service to support conversations around the film, "Knocking." If you wish to unsubscribe from this newsletter, just send a blank email to update-off@lists.knocking.org.
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

There has been great interest in the 48-page study guide booklet that
comes
with each DVD. Many have ordered extra study guides in packs of 5 and
10. We
have sold out of all the extra packs we had printed. Each new DVD order
will
still include one study guide, but we won't be able to offer extra
study
guides until June.
So this isn't a watchtower propaganda promotion??
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

Former reporter digs up stories of anti-gay bias
DetNews.com, MI - 2 hours ago
(The son of a Jehovah's Witness, he was sent to the principal's office as a Saginaw third grader for refusing to say the Pledge of Allegiance -- years after ...   Call him the story finder. Since graduating from Michigan State University, award-winning journalist Joel Engardio has tracked down compelling stories for ABC television's "20/20," the Los Angeles Times and his own documentary, "Knocking," which explores Jehovah Witnesses' quiet impact on everything from First Amendment rights to surgical techniques. Engardio's path took an unexpected turn three years ago when he bumped into Matt Coles, who needed, well, someone skilled at finding gotta-listen-to stories. Coles, the top gay-rights litigator at the American Civil Liberties Union, wanted gay couples whose tales tug heartstrings. "I was sitting in my office thinking, 'Who knows how to do this? To find gay people who've experienced the terrible consequences of being treated as legal strangers,'" Coles recalls. "I needed someone who knows how to vet people, to look for the weak points and the skeletons. That's a reporter." Engardio turned out to be a whiz at finding perfect combinations of couples for marriage lawsuits. One Baltimore columnist raved, "If you were going to create a Noah's Ark of homosexuality, you'd pick these people -- there's a lawyer, a dentist, several ex-military men, a former police officer, an engineer, a couple of nurses." Now Engardio's assignment is finding stories that convey the pain of anti-gay or anti-transgender job bias. The Democratic takeover of Congress means the Employment Non-Discrimination Act has a strong shot at passing. So, the ACLU has teamed up with the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force and the Human Rights Campaign to ask victims of job discrimination to fill out surveys on their Web sites. Infuriating stories are pouring in. Far more people have been hurt by job bias than could possibly testify on Capitol Hill , of course. So, Engardio will help pull together the most effective mix of storytellers. Others will be asked to talk to individual lawmakers and the news media before the ENDA vote. "I really didn't know what to expect," says Engardio, who felt the sting of bias long before coming out as gay. The son of a Jehovah's Witness, he was sent to the principal's office as a Saginaw third grader for refusing to say the Pledge of Allegiance -- years after Witnesses won the right to abstain.) "It's been more than I would have thought. You see more problems in 'Red' states," he says. "And the true harms, the real discrimination stories, they really pop out. You can't miss them." Take, for example, the closeted male couple who installed major appliances in a Northeast state. Co-workers figured out they were gay and complained to the boss, who fired them. Or, the gay southerner who planned to hold his commitment ceremony in the hotel where he worked. He sent out invitations; his supervisor fired him. Today, in 33 states, including Michigan , it's perfectly legal to fire someone for being gay. Transgender firings are legal in 42 states, including Michigan . "If you build into society the notion that this discrimination is wrong, people aren't going to do it," Coles predicts. But lawmakers need to hear why new safeguards are needed. "You can have the greatest story in the world, but if that person isn't willing to testify in front of Congress, it's not going to make an impact," says Engardio. "Somebody has to speak up." If you've suffered anti-gay job discrimination, turn your setback into a victory: Tell the story finder. Reach Deb Price dprice@detnews.com.  Danny wrote to Deb got reply below:  Thanks Danny. You might want to know more about Joel's documentary, which will be aired on pbs in coming weeks. go to knocking.org.  cheers, deb
 
abbagail
abbagail 9 years ago

Hey Danny, I am on Bill Keller's daily email list (www.liveprayer.com). He has a TV show every late night M-F over in the Tampa, FL market. And he has been on Howard Stern's radio show twice in recent weeks (Howard turned his show over to him for an entire hour, twice!)
Anyhoo, I emailed a copy of this "KNOCKING" info to Keller today, since exposing cults is one of his "specialties." (He loves to tear apart the Scientologists, Mormons, and sometimes the JWs, but not as often as the others). I said he might want to warn his viewers about this "sympathetic" documentary since it will be on PBS and many people might see it.
He replied with this brief note (he didn't specifically say he would mention it on the air, but I'm thinking he probably will sometime between now and May 22nd, and he may be invited back to Howard Stern's show between now and then also):
-----------------------------------------
From: "Bill Keller" bkeller@liveprayer.com
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:53:50 -0400
To: "L2TC" liiberty.2.the.captives@...
Subject: RE: "Sympathetic Cult Documentary" Coming to PBS - Re: DailyDevotional-Wed. 4/11/2007-Liveprayer.com

thanks my friend, perfect example of how we promote and exalt and glorify a cult leading millions to hell...thanks for the heads up
Know that I am praying for you, be richly blessed,
Bill Keller
Founder, www.liveprayer.com
------------------------------------------
/ag
 
XJW4EVR
XJW4EVR 9 years ago

I am not especially pleased that some PBS stations won't show Knocking, nor am I pleased at the effort to censor this program from being shown. I think all views should be aired. I have emailed the local PBS affiliate and suggested that if this program is aired here, that there should be a round table aring after Knocking, in which the other side of the story is given equal opportunity. I also linked them with Freeminds, as a contact for the opposing view.
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

BELIEVE: New public television series debuts with a look at the... Catholic Online, CA - 14 minutes ago
 Upcoming programs include: Episcopal, Judaism, Methodist, Jehovah's Witness, Assemblies of God, Pentecostal, Buddhism, Latter-day Saints. ...
ibelieve@thisisamerica.netwrite producer
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago



This is a printer friendly version of an article from The Detroit News
To print this article open the file menu and choose Print.




April 9, 2007
Deb Price
Former reporter digs up stories of anti-gay bias


Call him the story finder.
Since graduating from Michigan State University, award-winning journalist Joel Engardio has tracked down compelling stories for ABC television's "20/20," the Los Angeles Times and his own documentary, "Knocking," which explores Jehovah Witnesses' quiet impact on everything from First Amendment rights to surgical techniques.
Engardio's path took an unexpected turn three years ago when he bumped into Matt Coles, who needed, well, someone skilled at finding gotta-listen-to stories. Coles, the top gay-rights litigator at the American Civil Liberties Union, wanted gay couples whose tales tug heartstrings.
"I was sitting in my office thinking, 'Who knows how to do this? To find gay people who've experienced the terrible consequences of being treated as legal strangers,'" Coles recalls. "I needed someone who knows how to vet people, to look for the weak points and the skeletons. That's a reporter."
Engardio turned out to be a whiz at finding perfect combinations of couples for marriage lawsuits. One Baltimore columnist raved, "If you were going to create a Noah's Ark of homosexuality, you'd pick these people -- there's a lawyer, a dentist, several ex-military men, a former police officer, an engineer, a couple of nurses."
Now Engardio's assignment is finding stories that convey the pain of anti-gay or anti-transgender job bias. The Democratic takeover of Congress means the Employment Non-Discrimination Act has a strong shot at passing.
So, the ACLU has teamed up with the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force and the Human Rights Campaign to ask victims of job discrimination to fill out surveys on their Web sites. Infuriating stories are pouring in.
Far more people have been hurt by job bias than could possibly testify on Capitol Hill, of course. So, Engardio will help pull together the most effective mix of storytellers. Others will be asked to talk to individual lawmakers and the news media before the ENDA vote.
"I really didn't know what to expect," says Engardio, who felt the sting of bias long before coming out as gay. (The son of a Jehovah's Witness, he was sent to the principal's office as a Saginaw third grader for refusing to say the Pledge of Allegiance -- years after Witnesses won the right to abstain.)
"It's been more than I would have thought. You see more problems in 'Red' states," he says. "And the true harms, the real discrimination stories, they really pop out. You can't miss them."
Take, for example, the closeted male couple who installed major appliances in a Northeast state. Co-workers figured out they were gay and complained to the boss, who fired them. Or, the gay southerner who planned to hold his commitment ceremony in the hotel where he worked. He sent out invitations; his supervisor fired him.
Today, in 33 states, including Michigan, it's perfectly legal to fire someone for being gay. Transgender firings are legal in 42 states, including Michigan. "If you build into society the notion that this discrimination is wrong, people aren't going to do it," Coles predicts.
But lawmakers need to hear why new safeguards are needed.
"You can have the greatest story in the world, but if that person isn't willing to testify in front of Congress, it's not going to make an impact," says Engardio. "Somebody has to speak up."
If you've suffered anti-gay job discrimination, turn your setback into a victory: Tell the story finder.
Reach Deb Price at or (202) 662-8736 or dprice@detnews.com.
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

KNOCKING ANNOUNCEMENTS (lots going on this week!)
*Please forward to interested friends not on our mailing list*
PBS LAUNCHES SPECIAL KNOCKING WEB SITEhttp://www.pbs.org/independentlens/knocking/
You'll be surprised at what PBS has done in creating a special web site
for
KNOCKING. The amount of content and detail is incredible. If you like
it, be
sure to thank PBS by clicking on the "contact us" or "talkback" buttons
on
the web site. Use the same buttons to let PBS know what you thought of
the
film after you watch it. The site also features up-to-date Q&A
interviews
with the film's subjects. Read how they are doing now.
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

http://discussions.pbs.org/viewforum.pbs?f=203
PBS Knocking thread has opened up,easy one step register Join in.
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

CHECK THIS OUT http://www.pbs.org/mormons/ NOW Will this PBS piece on Mormon convert the world to LDS?
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago


 
Sunspot
Sunspot 9 years ago


Gill said:
JWs are NOT an issue with people at the moment. People in general to not give two hoots about the silly cult. BUT, if their attention can be diverted to the WTBTS and a spotlight shone on the bOrg, the cracks may well appear when rational people ask for the opposing view.
To me, I think it is a risk worth taking.
Let's put the WTBTS under the spotlight and make its faults and cracks become apparant.
Let them make the first move and then those that oppose the lies of the WTBTS can jump in to fill in all the gaps.
I had pretty much the same idea.....but my nonJW hubby has a totally different take on this. He has seen and experienced firsthand---JUST what involvement and association with the WTS has done to OUR family....shredding us all to bits and people not even willing to SPEAK or be CIVIL to one another for YEARS now---ALL DUE TO WHAT THE WATCHTOWER DEMANDS of its followers!
He has (strongly) suggested that I ask YOU here on JWD, to write to the stations and ask, en masse, for them NOT to show anything that might call undue attention to this cult....or present them in any kind of favorable light! Who knows who might be sympathetic and invite them in (as *I* did) and their whole family will be affected in the aftermath.
I see his point, and I do agree! So, I said I would tell you what he said, and I am still unsure of what I, personally will do---to write to the station--or not to bother.

Annie
 

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Topic Summary
some pbs stations won't show knocking .
even though knocking is scheduled for a national pbs broadcast on may .
2007, as many as one-quarter of local pbs stations will not show .



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MANY PBS STATIONS WON'T SHOW KNOCKING !
by DannyHaszard 9 years ago 79 Replies latest 5 years ago   watchtower scandals
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DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

Opening the door for us all
USA Today - 3 hours ago
Allowing Jehovah's Witnesses to knock door-to-door says a lot about the freedoms we value in America: religion, speech and personal liberty. ...
4 days in courtUSA Today
all 2 news articles »    TOP RANKED PUFF PIECE BY KNOCKING PRODUCER http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/05/opening_the_doo.html HERE http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/05/4_days_in_court.html HERE 4 days in court
USA Today - 2 hours ago
When Jehovah's Witness school children faced expulsion for refusing to salute the flag, the court held that national unity was a good reason to require it. ... KNOCKING ANNOUNCEMENTS
*Please forward to interested friends not on our mailing list*
USA TODAY FEATURES KNOCKING
Filmmaker Joel Engardio is a guest columnist in  USA Today . Engardio's
essay
and side articles about KNOCKING appear in the Monday May 7, 2007
edition of  USA Today  (Opinion section, "On Religion" column). Visit this link to
read
the articles online and tell USA Today what you think of its coverage:http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/on_religion_column/index.html
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

This is an outage Joel Engardio was what the Watchtower would have defined as a "rebellious child" who refused his 'obligation' to get baptized possibly to evade accountability and in fact is now an outspoken homosexual political activist.  The Watchtower condemns homosexuality as a fundy religion and has disfellowshipped thousands of gays and lesbians  I was forced to get baptized at age 11 and consequently was made to be held accountable for my later dissident views on the Jehovah's Witnesses religion.  The watchtower is NOW using Joel as their advocate  UTTER HYPOCRISY
 
Junction-Guy
Junction-Guy 9 years ago

The more I think of this "knocking" video the madder I get. I wonder if homosexuality wasnt an issue would Joel still be a JW? I bet he still thinks its "The Truth", gay or not.
 
carla
carla 9 years ago

What annoys me no end is that I wrote my local PBS to see if they were going to air it, they responded with a 'no we have no plans to air it at this time'. I asked because I told them in no uncertain terms that it would affect my donating or buying from the PBS auction which is pretty big here. Now I see it listed in their Fine Tuning mag. I am still searching for the email but am having problems finding which account I used!
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

Knocking
KNOCKING takes us inside the world of Jehovah's Witnesses in a way that is utterly surprising and ...Short film about Jehovah's Witnesses and Free Speech...www.newday.com/films/Knocking.html - 25k 
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

FINDING MY RELIGION A new film, "Knocking," offers a fresh look at ...
San Francisco Chronicle, CA - 21 minutes ago
 With 7 million Jehovah's Witnesses devoting 1.3 billion hours a year to spreading "the good news," it could well be a member of what filmmakers Joel P. ...
Who's that knocking on your door? With 7 million Jehovah's Witnesses devoting 1.3 billion hours a year to spreading "the good news," it could well be a member of what filmmakers Joel P. Engardio and Tom Shepard portray as a misunderstood and often ridiculed religion. After watching their documentary "Knocking," you might almost be tempted to invite the next Witness who shows up at your home in for a cup of coffee and a chat.
" Knocking " focuses on the lives of two Jehovah's Witnesses families. Engardio and Shepard also delve into the Witnesses' impact on society via the church's reluctant involvement in religious civil rights issues. The film suggests that Jehovah's Witnesses may be a model for how fundamentalist religions can peacefully co-exist with society as a whole.
I spoke with Engardio about "Knocking" and his childhood experiences as a Jehovah's Witness. Engardio, 34, a journalist by trade, has lived in San Francisco since 1998 and grew up in Saginaw, Mich. "I spent my childhood just up the road from Flint, Michigan, the hometown of Michael Moore," he told me. "So I've always kind of likened myself as Saginaw's version of Michael Moore. Thinner, and a little more polite."

Engardio is no longer a Jehovah's Witness, but he hopes his film will help people to see Witnesses as more than "one-dimensional caricatures." His other wish is that the film will spark a discussion -- one that isn't framed in terms of "us" and "them" -- on how we can balance religious and personal freedoms in America.


I found the part of your film that deals with the role of Jehovah's Witnesses during World War II particularly interesting. It seems odd that we hear so little about Witnesses imprisoned in Nazi concentration camps. Why is that, do you think?
I think that's because there is a general feeling that Witnesses are not relevant. They are kind of tossed aside as a caricature or a joke. And because they aren't political and they don't wield any influence or power, they don't have a seat at the table. So they are often overlooked and ignored.
Why were they put into the concentration camps?
Because they refused the authority of the Nazi state. Their religion had spread to Germany in the early 20th century, and by the time Hitler came into power they had 20 or 30 years of history in Germany. They were technically Aryan Germans, but the Witnesses pledge allegiance only to God. So when Hitler took over, they refused to say "Heil Hitler." They refused to pledge their allegiance to this Nazi state -- and not only did they refuse, they continued to go door-to-door, saying to people of Germany, "You should only pledge your allegiance to God, not this man Hitler." Hitler didn't like that.
How many of them were put into camps? And how many of them were killed?
There were about 35,000 Jehovah's Witnesses in Germany and Nazi-occupied lands, and of those 13,400 were sent to Nazi prisons and camps and about 2,000 died.
The interesting thing was that, because they were Aryan Germans, Hitler always thought of them as redeemable. So every day he gave them the option to leave the camp. He said: "As long as you just sign this card that renounces your faith, and pledge your allegiance to me, you can walk. You can go. No more torture for you." And most of the Witnesses refused the offer. They were the only group that was given an offer to leave the camps.
For a religion that eschews political involvement, the Witnesses seem to get involved in politics fairly often -- they have had so many skirmishes with governments over the years for refusing to serve in the military, refusing to salute the flag. They have been attacked by mobs for supposed nonpatriotic activities ...
T hey do feel that Jesus commanded Christians to stay out of politics. They say that Christians who are political aren't true Christians. But the Witnesses' main objective is to preach door-to-door, to spread that message. So when a political entity restricts that right, then they will resist and fight that in court if they have to. And what's not widely known or understood is how Jehovah's Witnesses have expanded freedom for everyone, because in fighting for their own rights, they have won rights that are applicable for everyone, even the groups they disagree with.
What are the values of a Jehovah's Witness, as you understand them?
Classic conservatism. No sex outside of marriage. So that means if you are straight and single, no sex. If you are a gay, no sex at all, because there is no provision for gay marriage. Abortion is considered a sin. They do allow contraception, so for married couples sex can be for recreation, not just for procreation, but you have to be married. They allow alcohol. They drink and they dance.
You mentioned that you were sent to the principal's office for refusing to say the Pledge of Allegiance. Not a typical third-grade offense. What was your reason for not saying it?
Jehovah's Witnesses don't say the Pledge, because they feel it's an act of worship. Even in the Ten Commandments it says: "No Idolatry. Don't worship idols." Right?
Jehovah's Witnesses do have some profound differences from other Christians. I found it interesting that they don't celebrate the Christian holidays -- because they feel these holidays are actually reconstructed pagan celebrations?
Yes. Any historian will tell you that December 25 has nothing to do with the birth of Jesus. I mean, that was originally -- I don't know -- a winter solstice pagan holiday that the Romans Christianized. If you really want to celebrate Jesus' birth, you should probably do it in the autumn. That's when the shepherds would have been in the fields.
Witnesses don't celebrate birthdays, either, at least according to what I've read. Did you celebrate birthdays as a child?
 No. I never celebrated my birthday as a kid. Jehovah's Witnesses don't celebrate birthdays, because they believe it puts a person on a pedestal and people should be humble. They also point to only two cases in the Bible where people celebrate birthdays, and both were evil men.
Did it bother you not having holidays?
Well, yeah. When you're in elementary school and a kid has a birthday, they bring cupcakes for everybody, and you have to refrain from eating them. And when there is a Christmas party, you have to go sit in the library. That wasn't pleasant. But the worst thing is that you have to go through all this and not complain.
Isn't it also true that Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in heaven and hell?
They don't believe in hell as a fiery place where bad people go. Their concept of hell is a literal one -- the translation of it means "grave." It's just a place where dead people lie. Witnesses believe that when you are dead, there is no afterlife. You just cease to exist until you are resurrected back on the earth as a physical human in a paradise. Their belief is that God will cleanse the earth in the battle of Armageddon, ridding it of all evil, politics, war and national boundaries, and recreate it as a paradise. At that point people will literally live forever in their human form with no illness, sickness or poverty. There will be no war or crime in this true utopia. Until that point, people just cease to exist. They are in a suspended state of unconsciousness.
And, I take it, for most Jehovah's Witnesses, what you are describing is not a metaphor. It is literal belief.
Yes. Witnesses also believe that a small number of humans -- 144,000 -- will go to heaven, kind of as God's helpers. All of those people have been predetermined by God. So you don't become a Jehovah's Witness hoping to get on the list. Anyway, it's not something Jehovah's Witnesses vie for. If you figure there are 7 million Jehovah's Witnesses currently, only a small percentage --about six or seven thousand -- claim to be on that list.

What makes them think they are on the list?
It's just a gut feeling, some kind of divine revelation.
Your mother became a Jehovah's Witness when you were a kid. Why did she convert?
 We come from a large Italian Catholic family, and in adulthood my mom just questioned the Catholic faith and was interested in looking at other religions. She had a friend who had become a Jehovah's Witness, and so that's how she heard about it.
But you opted not to stay in the religion when you got older. Why?
I guess because the worldview of a Jehovah's Witness is that all of the things that are wrong are going to be fixed when God's kingdom comes, when this new paradise is brought onto earth. And so Jehovah's Witnesses are fulfilled by going door-to-door and telling people this "good news," as they call it. That's where their activism ends, because they feel that they don't need to fix the problems of the world today -- they just need to tell people it's going to be fixed soon.
I felt like I'd be more interested in rolling up my sleeves as much as I could to work on the world's problems -- now. And that's why I thought being a journalist would be an interesting way to contribute.
You are also openly gay. Did that have anything to do with your decision?
No. My decision not to convert was bigger than my sexuality, but, of course, you can't be actively gay and be a Jehovah's Witness, so it wouldn't have worked out anyway.
How did your mom handle the fact that you are gay?
She is not happy about it, but it's been long enough that we have a common understanding.
Are you a religious or spiritual person now?
I would say spiritual but not religious.
Spiritual in what sense?
Spiritual in understanding that there is more that makes the world go around than just us as individuals. Related to that is respecting the awesomeness of nature and being able to respect each other as humans.
Do you have any sort of spiritual practice that you follow?
I don't do Vipassana meditation or whatever else is popular in Northern California these days. But I do a lot of o utdoor activities -- running and biking -- which I guess is a meditative thing.
Why did you decide to make this film?
I'd lived with the story as a child, became a journalist, worked for 10 years and looked around and realized no one had told the story, and I thought, "Hey! It might as well be me." I was in a unique position to tell it.
Jehovah's Witnesses supposedly spend eight hours a month knocking on doors. Is that an obligation? Does anyone keep track?
Well, that's the average. There is no minimum requirement to go door-to-door. You go as much as you can. A full-time minister would spend 70 hours a month door-to-door, but only about 10 percent of Jehovah's Witnesses are classified as full-time ministers. And yes, there is a log that people keep of their hours.
What happens if you don't knock on doors?
If you miss a month or two, nothing. But if you miss four months, six months, you will be labeled as inactive.

Is inactive the same thing as ex-communicated?

No. Inactive is a term for Witnesses who don't want to be Witnesses anymore and quietly slip away from congregation life without the consequence of shunning. If a Witness openly disavows the religion and its tenets or if they unrepentantly break the religion's moral code and continue to represent themselves as Witnesses, then they are dis-fellowshiped, or shunned. Each year, 30,000 witnesses are dis-fellowshiped, but a large number return.

You put in your time going door-to-door. What was that like?
It was scary. I mean, just imagine as a child having to knock on strangers' doors, and the people behind the door aren't always happy to see you, so you definitely get a thick skin. Now I'm fearless in speaking to anybody.

I imagine some Jehovah's Witnesses really hate doing it.
One thing to say about Jehovah's Witnesses -- because they are seen as these one-dimensional caricatures who come knocking on your door -- they are real people and they have real feelings, and not every Jehovah's Witness enjoys knocking on your door. They are as scared and shy as you would be. For some Witnesses, it takes every fiber in their body to get up the courage to come knock on your door.

People make fun of the door-to-door proselytizing, but I assume it must be effective or Jehovah's Witnesses wouldn't keep doing it?
People make fun and say it's old-fashioned, but what happened in the last presidential election? There were all these stories about candidates going door-to-door again. I suppose in a media-saturated society, sometimes shoe leather on the sidewalk works wonders.

Do many people who are approached cold by Jehovah's Witnesses actually convert?
I think the percentage is probably pretty low. But the objective is not to rack up a number of converts. There isn't a quota. Their motive is to just do what they feel Jesus commanded and just spread the message. That's enough.

You say in the film that Jehovah's Witnesses represent a different kind of fundamentalism. What kind is that?
Fundamentalism as a word has been bastardized. It now only has a negative connotation because it relates to people who force their beliefs onto others through legislation or violence. But Jehovah's Witnesses are classic fundamentalists in that they steadfastly stand by their beliefs, yet at the same time they don't hurt people by forcing their beliefs on them. So it's a different kind of fundamentalism. As a rabbi in the film says, "The question of our world today is not whether fundamentalism is bad but what kind of fundamentalism we are going to have."
And you agree?
Yes. There is nothing bad with having conviction and standing by your conviction. And there is nothing bad about you passionately telling your neighbor about what you believe. That's just free speech. What's bad is when you go around and hurt people, because you are trying to force them down a certain path.
What do you hope the response will be to your film?
My hope is that people will see the larger message, which is that we are in a culture war right now. America doesn't work. We've got our blue states and our red states, you know, entrenched, yet we have to reconcile the fact that we have a First Amendment that allows for religious freedom. And freedom [of] religion is to [be able to] believe things that a progressive society might not feel is right.
And so we need to find some kind of common ground where we don't have to be threatened by each other, where our religion can be strong in its faith and not feel like it has to legislate its beliefs because it feels threatened. Likewise, others need to be able to let religions be without trying to tear them down. I look at Jehovah's Witnesses as a good example of how it could work.
A model?
It's not a perfect model, but it is an example of how a religious group can retain its freedom to believe what it wants while allowing others outside the religion to take a different path.
That's how America is supposed to work. A religion should be able to believe what it wants, but people who choose not to be of that religion should be able to live the way they feel is best. And both should be treated equally under the Constitution.

"Knocking" will have its television premiere on the Emmy Award-winning PBS series "Independent Lens," hosted by Terrence Howard, on Tuesday, May 22, at 10 p.m. (check local listings).

Finding My Religion wants to hear from you. Send comments on stories and suggestions for interview subjects to miller@sfgate.com
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

"Knocking" will have its television premiere on the Emmy Award-winning PBS series "Independent Lens," hosted by Terrence Howard, on Tuesday, May 22, at 10 p.m. (check local listings). Finding My Religion wants to hear from you. Send comments on stories and suggestions for interview subjects to miller@sfgate.com  readerrep@sfchronicle.com readers rep   letters@sfchronicle.com Letters to editor   forum@sfchronicle.com opinion More Contact list below http://www.sfgate.com/chronicle/info/e-mail/
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

Pre "knocking" on PBS May 22 media push Report: Jehovah's Witnesses Targets of Widespread Religious ...
PR Newswire (press release), NY - 1 hour ago
 "Jehovah's Witnesses are like a canary in the coal mine when it comes to civil liberties and human rights. What happens to them will determine what happens ...
FINDING MY RELIGION A new film, "Knocking," offers a fresh look at ...San Francisco Chronicle
all 4 news articles »   Report: Jehovah's Witnesses Targets of Widespread Religious ... only one enabled for comments Earthtimes.org - 1 hour ago
 SAN FRANCISCO, May 16 /PRNewswire/ -- As issues of democracy, freedom, and religion increasingly make headlines and political rhetoric around the world, ...
 
Gerard
Gerard 9 years ago

"A government that abuses the freedoms of a vulnerable religious minority often signals a weakening commitment to democratic values." -Engardio
What about a religion that abuses the freedoms of its vulnerable people? Doen't it signal a weakening of moral values?
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

OMG!!!! I read this puff piece and it angers me to no end. WHAT???? The quote of Rice was about religion oppressing non believers. The Muslim faith oppresses anyone that does not agree with their belief as do JWs. For Joel to invert the Rice quote and then cheerlead this commentary for a group that judges him worthy of death is beyond comprehension. This is the equivalent of the Jews promoting Hitler as a human rights spokesman.   Does the man have any morals whatsoever? The gay community should disfellowship him for his disingenuous actions.
Sent to me via email
 
Sunspot
Sunspot 9 years ago

After watching their documentary "Knocking," you might almost be tempted to invite the next Witness who shows up at your home in for a cup of coffee and a chat.

And THIS is exactly what I fear the MOST in having the general public watch "Knocking" just to see what it is "all about". The average Joe that knows little or nothing about the WTS would be more amenable to inviting the JWs inside when they are " briefly stopping by", and the clever WTS indoctrination process is going full swing before the householder even knows what hit him.
I don't fear "free speech" as such...but I DO FEAR what the WTS can do and the involvement of nice people and their families, having been a victim of their peculiar teachings and unchristian policies.
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

KNOCKING Update
*please forward to friends*
NATIONAL BROADCAST DAYS AWAY -- WILL IT BE SHOWN IN YOUR CITY?
This is it. PBS will nationally offer KNOCKING for broadcast Tuesday
May 22
at 10pm on the documentary series "Independent Lens." IMPORTANT NOTE:
Many
local PBS stations have chosen to show KNOCKING very late at night,
even
after midnight. Some local stations are not showing it at all. You must
check with your local PBS station to find out when KNOCKING will be
shown.
Be sure to mention the series "Independent Lens."
Use this link to find out what day/time KNOCKING will be shown in your
city:
http://www.knocking.org/PBS.html
DVD STILL AVAILABLE
If you can't watch KNOCKING on PBS, you can still order the DVD for
home
viewing. The DVD version is longer than the PBS version and has 3 hours
of
extra video material and a 48-page study/discussion guide. The extras
include expert interviews with scholars and historians on issues of the
Holocaust, medical ethics and civil liberties. There are also official
interviews with members of the Jehovah's Witness world headquarters.
Order here:http://www.knocking.org/dvd_home_edition.lasso



This Update is sponsored by Open Door Films, and is provided as a
public
service to support conversations around the film, "Knocking." If you
wish
to unsubscribe from this newsletter, just send a blank email to
 update-off@lists.knocking.org .
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

This is it. PBS will nationally offer KNOCKING for broadcast Tuesday
May 22
at 10pm on the documentary series "Independent Lens." IMPORTANT NOTE:
Many
local PBS stations have chosen to show KNOCKING very late at night,
even
after midnight. Some local stations are not showing it at all. You must
check with your local PBS station to find out when KNOCKING will be
shown.
Be sure to mention the series "Independent Lens."
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

No comment box but check out the wrong information in the side bar and you can write the reporter. " ;Knocking," an inside look at Jehovah's Witnesses, will premiere ...
NorthJersey.com, NJ - 39 minutes ago
Journalist Joel P. Engardio -- whose parents were Jehovah's Witnesses -- produced and directed the Independent Television Service film with award-winning ...  leichman@northjersey.comwrite reporter    J.W. FYI
Known for their door-to-door ministry, Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves Christians but differ in significant ways from traditional Christian denominations. They believe, for example: • The human soul ceases to exist at death. Only the righteous are awakened from their eternal "sleep." • Satan is the invisible ruler of the world. • Righteous people will be physically resurrected on a renewed Earth. • 144,000 specially chosen individuals will be born again and enter heaven. That number comes from the 12 Tribes of Israel. They do not believe: • The Bible should be taken literally.They have their own version of the Bible, in which certain passages have been changed .  • In the divinity of Jesus or the Trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. • In the need for clergy. • In celebrating secular or religious holidays such as Christmas and birthdays. • That blood transfusions are ever permitted.
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

Know this,,,, PBS own market survey say's that 80% of viewers will be active and former JW's so don't fret as there is no way they will convert the world.


 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago


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8:00  Wild Things "Sharks: Scavengers of the Seas" Sharks in the lagoon of New-Caledonia are revealed to be opportunistic scavengers rather than fierce predators, with eclectic tastes for anything with feathers, fins or fur.G alt
9:00  Frontline "A Hidden Life" On May 6, 2005, Spokane residents awaken to an investigative story in the Spokesman Review tying the city's popular socially conservative mayor to trawling for young men on the Internet. FRONTLINE explores the story with the newspaper and all the principal players. The program looks at the effect on an all-American town and the experiences of gay people in a place far from the main battlefields of the culture wars.G alt
10:00  Independent Lens "Knocking" Filmmaker Joel P. Engardio, who was raised in a Jehovah's Witness family, follows two families like the one he grew up in. Their personal stories illuminate the unlikely ways in which Jehovah's Witnesses have protected freedom of speech for the public at large, and have advanced scientific research despite their religious objections to medical procedures.G

 
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

Documentary tells the story of Jehovah's Witnesses
Houston Chronicle , TX -16 minutes ago
 But over the course of four years, this woman's knocking and her message got to Stevens and his family, and in 1973 they became Jehovah's Witnesses. ... .....Houston's Stevens said he hopes the masses will watch the documentary and feel compelled to learn more. Before a district convention of Witnesses next month, Witnesses will be blanketing the area with invitations to attend, he said. "The thing is that if they see the film and they want to learn more, all they have to do is wait for someone to knock on the door.".... kristina.herrndobler@chon.com reporter
 
J-ex-W
J-ex-W 9 years ago



This is an outage Joel Engardio was what the Watchtower would have defined as a "rebellious child" who refused his 'obligation' to get baptized possibly to evade accountability and in fact is now an outspoken homosexual political activist.  The Watchtower condemns homosexuality as a fundy religion and has disfellowshipped thousands of gays and lesbians  I was forced to get baptized at age 11 and consequently was made to be held accountable for my later dissident views on the Jehovah's Witnesses religion.  The watchtower is NOW using Joel as their advocate

Yep. And this while my JW son was just telling me last night that he is going to get rid of a music CD he really likes because he just realize/ suspects the musician is GAY................... I had to seriously hold my tongue on this so I wouldn't be outed as defending homosexuality and having dissident views myself.

 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

BeliefWatch: Witness
Newsweek - 12 minutes ago
 What interests Engardio—who was raised as a Jehovah's Witness by his mother and has since left the church—is that despite their fierce separatism and ...
webeditors@newsweek.com Email newsweek editors BeliefWatch: Witness By Lisa Miller Newsweek May 28, 2007 issue - With a presidential candidate, a recent television special and 13 million adherents worldwide, the Mormons have gotten an extra dose of media attention lately. But there's another indigenous American religion that is now making a bid for the spotlight. Formed in the 19th century, four decades after the Latter-day Saints, it, too, emphasizes a bizarre-seeming afterlife, attracts clean-cut and socially conservative adherents, encourages its members to evangelize and raises the ire of more-mainstream believers suspicious of its claims to Christianity. With "Knocking," a documentary airing this week on PBS, director Joel Engardio draws back the curtain on America's million Jehovah's Witnesses. People know of Witnesses, if they know of them at all, as the folks who refuse to say the Pledge of Allegiance. They also don't celebrate birthdays or Christmas, they don't vote, they don't fight in wars and they refuse to accept blood transfusions, even in life-threatening circumstances. They believe the end of the world is coming soon, and they bear witness to God by knocking on doors. What interests Engardio—who was raised as a Jehovah's Witness by his mother and has since left the church—is that despite their fierce separatism and fundamentalism, they use the courts to fight for their right to worship as they please and their legal battles, he argues, have made the world a better place for everyone else. In "Knocking," a young man who needs a liver transplant but refuses a transfusion is admitted to one of a growing number of hospitals that are experimenting with bloodless surgery. Engardio's own story is compelling. Witnesses, like the Amish, are baptized as teenagers or young adults; at that moment, they accept the mantle of their faith. Engardio declined to be baptized, he says, because he thought he could do more good in the world than out of it. He is also gay. His sexual orientation didn't lead him to abandon the church, but long term, "it wouldn't have been a good fit," he says. "I broke my mother's heart. Twice." (Unlike some other fundamentalist sects, the Witnesses condone recreational sex, as long as it's within marriage; they prohibit homosexual sex.) And what of all the knocking, which so many people find so irritating? Witnesses knock on doors, he explains, in order to live as much as they can like the disciples of Jesus. That way, they will be prepared for Armageddon and for the perfect world of peace and health on Earth that will follow.
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

Engardio declined to be baptized, he says, because he thought he could do more good in the world than out of it. He is also gay. His sexual orientation didn't lead him to abandon the church, but long term, "it wouldn't have been a good fit,"
WOW how many of us got that choice and then become a WTBS spokesperson for newsweek?
 

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Topic Summary
some pbs stations won't show knocking .
even though knocking is scheduled for a national pbs broadcast on may .
2007, as many as one-quarter of local pbs stations will not show .



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MANY PBS STATIONS WON'T SHOW KNOCKING !
by DannyHaszard 9 years ago 79 Replies latest 5 years ago   watchtower scandals
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DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

BeliefWatch: Witness
Newsweek - 12 minutes ago
 What interests Engardio—who was raised as a Jehovah's Witness by his mother and has since left the church—is that despite their fierce separatism and ...
webeditors@newsweek.com Email newsweek editors
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

KNOCKING update
*please forward to friends*
FEATURED IN NEWSWEEK
An article about KNOCKING has been published in the current issue of
Newsweek magazine on newsstands May 21.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18754319/site/newsweek/
FEATURED ON AIR AMERICA RADIO
Director Joel P. Engardio was interviewed on Air America radio,
nationally
broadcast Sunday May 20. You can listen to the podcast online.http://www.airamerica.com/stateofbelief/
NATIONAL PBS BROADCAST TOMORROW: TUESDAY MAY 22
PBS is offering KNOCKING for national broadcast on the series
"Independent
Lens" Tuesday May 22 at 10pm. NOTE: Many local PBS stations are moving
KNOCKING to late at night, to a different date, or opting to not show
KNOCKING at all. You must contact your local PBS station to determine
the
air date/time in your area. You must also request a future broadcast of
KNOCKING at a more convenient time if your local station is showing it
at an
odd hour or passed on it this week (be sure to mention the series
"Independent Lens").
Check to see if your city is on the list:http://www.knocking.org/PBS.html

FEATURED IN NEWSWEEK
An article about KNOCKING has been published in the current issue of
Newsweek magazine on newsstands May 21.
EXCERPT HERE:
Engardio declined to be baptized, he says, because he thought he could do more good in the world than out of it. He is also gay. His sexual orientation didn't lead him to abandon the church, but long term, "it wouldn't have been a good fit,"
WOW how many of us got that choice and then become a WTBS spokesperson for newsweek?
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

KNOCKING Update

OSCAR-NOMINATED TERRENCE HOWARD TALKS ABOUT KNOCKING
Listen to Academy Award-nominated actor Terrence Howard talk about
KNOCKING
on the NPR (National Public Radio) show "Tell Me More." Terrence Howard
is
the host of the PBS series "Independent Lens" and he will introduce
KNOCKING
on TV. Few know that Terrence Howard was raised a Jehovah's Witness as
a
child. He will talk about that experience on the NPR radio show (he was
already told reporters he wants to return the religion of his
childhood) and
he will talk about his impressions of KNOCKING. Terrence Howard  was
nominated for an Academy Award for his 2005 performance in " Hustle &
Flow ."
He also starred in the 2006 Best Picture "Crash." This year, he was the
lead
in the film "Pride." Previous films include "Mr. Holland's Opus" and
"Ray." Terrence Howard 's interview on the NPR show "Tell Me More" will be
broadcast
Tuesday May 22, the same day KNOCKING is shown on PBS.
Click here to learn more about the NPR radio show, and where to hear
 Terrence Howard 's interview. You can also listen online:http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=46
KNOCKING GETS PRESS AROUND THE COUNTRY
Here are links to recent press articles about KNOCKING:
 Newsweek http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18754319/site/newsweek/
 USA Today http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/05/opening_the_doo.html
 Houston Chronicle http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/life/religion/4817057.html
 San Francisco Chronicle http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2007/05/14/findrelig.DTL&hw=Jehovah&sn=001&sc= 1000
New Jersey Bergen Recordhttp://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk3JmZnYmVsN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk3MTM1MDkz
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

GAY knocking Jehovah Witnesses producers
Gay Director Joel P. Engardio and his Gay partner
 
OnTheWayOut
OnTheWayOut 9 years ago

I listened to Terrence Howard's interview at http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10320391
Warning to all- He's warped. His family are JW's and he is not- because he didn't give up smoking and
isn't disciplined enough. He hopes to one day be ready to be a JW. There's some comments in this
host's interview that will fire you up. He thinks JW's are right, and they don't shun those that leave, but
rather that the one who left them shuns the faith and is always welcome to come back. Disgusting
take from someone who never took the plunge. Same as Joel E, the producer- a gay man defending those that
would say that fire from heaven will destroy him and birds will pluck his eyeballs out.
 
rebel8
rebel8 9 years ago

This is a travesty on so many levels.
Unfortunately only 26 people signed my petition so there is nothing newsworthy for me to get the media to cover today.
Another missed opportunity to let the world hear the other side of the story. There have been several threads on here about uniting to get media coverage and improve public awareness of this cult, but when the time comes, there is little support. [big sigh of disappointment]
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/134406/1.ashx
 
Mulan
Mulan 9 years ago

It isn't on our schedule here. Yay!
 
reneeisorym
reneeisorym 9 years ago

Its on our schedule and I even wrote them to ask that it not be.
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

Not on Bangor Maine PBS lineup tonight.

http://discussions.pbs.org/viewforum.pbs?f=203 the forum should open up tonight late

Since launch, the lively debates seen here have been largely related to the Jehovah's Witnesses faith as a whole, with minimal posting and participation about the film KNOCKING.
The goal of the KNOCKING discussion forum, as listed in the Standards of Use, is to "discuss your responses to the film and Web site with us and with each other."
As a result, this forum will be inactive until the film's premiere on Independent Lens on May 22, 2007. At that time, we will welcome viewers to share their reactions and thoughts about the film.
 
Sunspot
Sunspot 9 years ago

Rebel8 said: "Unfortunately only 26 people signed my petition so there is nothing newsworthy for me to get the media to cover today. "
I feel so AWFUL!!! This is the first time I have seen anything about a petition....and I feel twice as awful because so few supported you on this!!!
hugs,
Annie
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

ARTICLES that KNOCK 'KNOCKING'
What gay's are saying:
1 http://www.gayxjw.org/knock.html
2http://www.gayxjw.org/knock2.html
Good piece by Silent lambs director
3http://www.icsahome.com/infoserv_articles/bowen_william_jehovahsandfreespeech_0602.htm
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

 Terrence Howard: 'I Would Be a Witness'
NPR - 2 hours ago
 It's a look inside the Jehovah's Witness religion. He talks candidly about the film and his personal connection to the faith. ...
 
sf
sf 9 years ago

Thought I missed it. Yet, not.
It will air in the Los Angeles area and also going up as far as Santa Barbara at 10 PM.
http://www.kcet.org/schedule/

05:00 PM  BBC World News


05:30 PM  Nightly Business Report


06:00 PM  Newshour With Jim Lehrer


07:00 PM  Life & Times


07:30 PM  Downtown
 Film Shoots

08:00 PM  Nova
 The Great Robot Race

09:00 PM  Frontline
 A Hidden Life

10:00 PM  Independent Lens
Knocking

11:00 PM  Tavis Smiley


11:30 PM  Charlie Rose


12:30 AM  Downtown
 Film Shoots
http://www.pbs.org/modules/tvschedules/includes/programinfopopup.html?display_format=ep_description&station=KCET&display_date=2007-05-22&display_time=22:00:00&display_feed=700&title_id=345
 
kgfreeperson
kgfreeperson 9 years ago

I just listened to the Terrence Howard interview and he insists his family is Muslim, not JW. But he certainly revealed himself to be someone who would be open to JW-type fundamentalism.
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

Update (this is an older thread)
KNOCKING IN SPANISH!
Translators are currently working to create a Spanish-language version
 of
KNOCKING. All four hours of the DVD will be translated (feature film,
lecture series, video extras). The accompanying 48-page study guide
 will
also be fully translated as well as the entire KNOCKING web site. The
Spanish DVD of KNOCKING will be available in October at:http://www.knocking.org/
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

I just listened to the Terrence Howard interview and he insists his family is Muslim, not JW. But he certainly revealed himself to be someone who would be open to JW-type fundamentalism.
60 days later the Watchtower is still using him,another 'immoral' worldly celebrity to promote their cult purity

E! Online Terrence Howard Hustles to Save a Life! comment
E! Online - 9 hours ago Aug 29 2007
 Howard said he was just 16 when he began studying with Jehovah's Witnesses. But he stopped short of conversion because they forbid sex outside marriage. ...
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

UPDATE well readers,the PBS piece aired May 22 it's coming up on 6 months and looking around I would say that it flopped way down on keyword searches nobody discussing it including us here at JWD
 
Alfred
Alfred 5 years ago

Does anyone know who financed this documentary?
 
Mad Sweeney
Mad Sweeney 5 years ago

If I understand this imdb page correctly, Corporaton for Public Broadcasting did.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0479939/companycredits
 
Alfred
Alfred 5 years ago

Thanks Mad... I came across some old note books clearing out my desk the other day and noticed a note to myself about this documentary... (Don't remember why a wrote the note)... Decided to search here and found this thread.
 

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Topic Summary
some pbs stations won't show knocking .
even though knocking is scheduled for a national pbs broadcast on may .
2007, as many as one-quarter of local pbs stations will not show .



Related Topics
new boy
My Bethel Experience Part 13 "Love and Sex" at Bethel
by new boy 2 months ago
Jerryh
Romans 6:7
by Jerryh 2 months ago
Dogpatch
"How Awful This Place Can Be!" Life at Bethel by Keith Casarona
by Dogpatch 5 years ago
Gorbatchov
2002 radio interview with J.R. Brown, spokesman of WTBTS (The God Show)
by Gorbatchov 2 months ago
Terry
HAPPILY (NEVER) AFTER --a Story from my childhood
by Terry 3 months ago



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Their "BIG" news 'KNOCKING' documentary
by DannyHaszard 10 years ago 125 Replies latest 9 years ago   watchtower scandals
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DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 10 years ago

 Calling all activist, we need to mobilize our rebuttal efforts on this WTS media "puff piece" KNOCKING DOCUMENTARY NEWSLETTER #1 SUMMER 2005
Thanks for your interest in the KNOCKING documentary about Jehovah's
Witnesses. I'm Joel Engardio, director of the project. Since the www.knocking.org web site went live recently, I've been hearing from interested
ones from Arizona to Arkansas and everywhere in between. The site is
new, and is still a work-in-progress. Check back from time to time to see
new features, including the film clip downloads.
SPREAD THE WORD
Please forward the link www.knocking.org far and wide. Beyond a
national broadcast on public television (PBS) in the United States, our goal
is to make the film available to international audiences with language
subtitles. Indeed, Jehovah's Witnesses are in more than 200 lands, and
their story about blood, the Holocaust and preservation of civil
liberties resonates around the globe.
OUR GOAL
The aim of KNOCKING is to give a general, non-Jehovah's Witness
audience a fair look at a religious group that has long been misunderstood and
relegated to cartoonish stereotypes. KNOCKING uses the real life
stories of real families to humanize Jehovah's Witnesses. But we don’t shy
from criticism. Our aim is that everything is fair and accurate. We show
both the ups and downs, including what it is like for Witnesses who
have unbelieving or opposing family members, and how divided families can
find common ground. For instance, the young man who undergoes a
groundbreaking bloodless liver transplant has opposing family members who come
to the hospital to see first-hand how the new bloodless technology
works.
WHO SHOULD WATCH
KNOCKING will be educational and illuminating for a non-Jehovah's
Witness audience. Extended family, neighbors, co-workers and classmates of
Jehovah’s Witnesses will certainly be interested to take a look. Closer
to time of broadcast, we will offer DVDs for home and school use. The
DVD will be a feature-length version of the film (the broadcast on PBS
will be shorter) and will include extras like expanded interviews. We’ll
be sure to send more details on that later.
PRODUCTION HISTORY
As of Summer 2005, the film is being edited in San Francisco.
Throughout the course of the project, we filmed in California, Georgia, Ohio,
New York, Nevada, and Texas as well as Austria and Poland. We filmed in
Kingdom Halls, conventions and in the door-to-door ministry.
WE ARE INDEPENDENT
Keep in mind that every Jehovah's Witness who has contributed to this
film, either on camera or behind the scenes, has done so by their own
personal choice. There is no official connection to the Watchtower
Society, though the Bethel organization in Brooklyn, Patterson and Wallkill,
New York has been cooperative with the producers of this film. We interviewed Watchtower representatives on camera and filmed inside Bethel.
Watchtower has no financial ties to this project, nor any editorial
control. It is important to know that this project is independently
produced for public television, using a combination of public, foundation and
individual funds. No one on the production staff is a Jehovah's
Witness. The director's mother, however, is a Witness. And we do have
Jehovah's Witnesses who are serving as consultants for factual accuracy. We
also have academic, historical and medical consultants who are experts in
their field but not Jehovah's Witnesses.
HOW TO SEE IT
We intend to premiere KNOCKING at a prestigious film festival such as
Sundance in early 2006. A national television broadcast on PBS will
follow. And the film will be made available on DVD. We also hope to bring
KNOCKING to cities throughout the United States in 2006 for special
screenings. This will be a chance for you to see a sneak preview and
perhaps meet some of the film's subjects in a live Q&A session. The KNOCKING
web site and these newsletters will provide updated information about
where and when the sneak previews will take place. If you are interested
in volunteering to organize such a screening in your city, contact us
directly at  knockingdirector@msn.com . Please type “Volunteer” in the
subject heading.
 We look forward to seeing the positive impact this film has in telling
the untold stories of Jehovah's Witnesses. We hope you do, too. Thanks
again for contacting us, and the KNOCKING staff will be sure to keep
you up to date on the latest progress.
Sincerely,
Joel P. Engardio
Producer/Director knockingdirector@msn.com
http://www.knocking.org/getinfo.lasso Calling all activist sign up for this newsletter
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 10 years ago

Watchtower PBS "puff piece" Knocking documentary Knocking Documentary Project
KNOCKING takes an unprecedented, inside look at how Jehovah's Witnesses have
intersected with society beyond the doorstep. ... www.knocking.org/ http://www.knocking.org/getinfo.lasso Calling all activist sign up for newsletter  knockingdirector@msn.com Contact info to send your well thought out protest  http://www.pbs.org/aboutsite/aboutsite_feedback.html Contact PBS online form     User Reviews for knocking.org Be the first person to  write a review  of this site on Amazon.com!   Site Stats for knocking.org :
◦Traffic Rank for knocking.org:  , 0 9 , 3  (
◦Speed: s 6 5 % o i t s a r s o w e r ) , A v L o a d T i m e : 1 . 3 S c o s (what's this?)
◦Other sites that link to this site: No Data (note from Danny: I estimate several hundred blogs of active JW blogs are linked)
◦Online Since: 15-Jun-2004
Contact Info for knocking.org: Open Door Productions (this is the production company they are not JW's)
2339 3rd St #16
San Francisco, CA
94107 US
+1 415 558 9780tomshep@comcast.net
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 10 years ago

www.freeminds.org/women/knockingresponse.htm Com ments  The aim of KNOCKING is to give a general, non-Jehovah's Witness audience a fair
... The film will be delivered to PBS in the fall, and it will be entered in ...
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 10 years ago

KNOCKING JW documentary update older JWD thread KNOCKING JW documentary update
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 10 years ago

This is our (high ranked for knocking keywords) EXJW protest page done by our good man Alan Feuerbacher Jehovah's Witnesses PBS Film KNOCKING Omits the Facts Jehovah's Witnesses PBS Film KNOCKING Omits the Facts Added: (Fri Sep 30 2005) Jehovah's Witnesses a destructive sect, because they destroy families and long-standing friendships.
Having been born and raised a Jehovah's Witness, I was interested to learn recently of your upcoming PBS film KNOCKING. I've long been a fan and supporter of PBS for its superior and informative programming, and my email to you is in the spirit of keeping up PBS's high standards.
-- Alan Feurbacher's email to Joel Engardia of Knocking.org:
Hi Joel,
MY BACKGROUND
First a bit of background on me. My family has been involved with the Witnesses since my paternal grandfather, in 1918, stood overnight on his porch with a shotgun, protecting a near-dead Bible Student colporteur who had been tarred and feathered in his small Oklahoma town of Shattuck.

The townsmen were caught up in the fever of WWI and did their patriotic "duty". Grandpa never became a Bible Student, but grandma did in 1920, and was, using Jehovah's Witness jargon, "of the anointed".

My dad was born in 1917, and grandma nearly died of the Spanish influenza while carrying him. He became a member of the Brooklyn Bethel staff in 1938 and stayed there until he married my mom (born 1927) in 1946.

He quickly rose up the Bethel ladder, and became friends with a number of men who today are top Watchtower officials. Today the President and Vice President of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania remember my dad fondly. He died in 2001.

I was born in 1951, and of course was brought up in the Witness religion. In 1954, Barbara Anderson (who wrote you a few days ago) was a 14-year-old who appeared at the Kingdom Hall in Hempstead, New York, where my family attended JW meetings.

My dad was the Congregation Servant. My mom befriended Barbara and they remained close friends until Barbara left the JWs around 1997. Today she's like my big sister.

During the late 1960s and early 1970s, the Watchtower Society encouraged the JW community to believe that 1975 would probably bring the long-awaited battle of Armageddon. I didn't go to college, after graduating high school in 1969, because I was caught up in the fever of that belief. However, I went to college in 1978, after the 1975 date proved wrong.

I graduated from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 1982 with a BS in electrical engineering. I now have an MS in that field, and work for an international semiconductor company, designing microchips that are used in everything from cell phones and hard disk drives to Nintendos and Sony Play Stations.





Unfortunately, when I researched the many references in Watchtower publications to secular material that supposedly supported its teachings, I found that the majority were unusable, because they either failed to support the point being made, or even contradicted the Society's claim.

Eventually I wrote a paper on a different subject, but this experience taught me that the Watchtower Society is guilty of much scholastic dishonesty. This, along with my disappointment in the failure of the Society's predictions for 1975, led to my quitting the Witnesses, for all practical purposes, by about 1980.

In 1975 I married a JW "pioneer sister". We had one daughter, born in 1985. By 1986, after my wife came to realize that I was never again going to be an active JW, she emotionally gave up on me, figuring that it wasn't worth her investment to love a man who would soon die at Armageddon.

We divorced in 1994-96.Over the years I did a great deal of research into the beliefs and history of Jehovah's Witnesses. My research completely confirmed what I had accidentally learned back in 1980 -- that the JWs as an organization are intellectually dishonest.

I've been active on the Internet since 1991, learning and writing on JW-related topics and plenty of other things. Today you can find how much writing I've done by typing my name in any Net search engine.





For example, in 1984, Governing Body member Leo Greenlees was convicted by the rest of the JW Governing Body of molesting a young boy. Greenlees was forced to leave Bethel but was never reported to the police, and he was assigned to be a "Special Pioneer" for the Society until his death a few years later. Since 1997, I've worked with Barbara and others behind the scenes trying to force the Watchtower Society into a position where it had to properly deal with this serious problem.

SHUNNING
As you know, JWs practice shunning. Shunning is done on both formal and informal levels. The formal level entails both "disfellowshipping" and "disassociation". In the first case, a person goes through a trial of sorts and is judged unrepentant of some sin, and then formally expelled from the JW organization.

In the second case, the person is declared to have removed himself from the JW organization. In practice, the two terms amount to the same thing -- shunning of the expelled person by all JWs. Informal shunning covers a range of possibilities, from a JW simply deciding not to associate with someone, to the Society's writing a letter to a family or congregation suggesting that a person be informally shunned.







I have a good deal of experience with shunning and the wrecked families it can create. My wife (and her youngest sister) has been informally shunned by her JW brother and sister since she quit the JWs in 1985 and divorced her abusive husband.



In 1999, my daughter, at age 14, left her JW mother and came to live with me.
She was never baptized, but is now informally shunned by the young people she grew up with, and has a strained relationship with her JW mother.

In 2002, as a result of Barbara Anderson's appearance on NBC Dateline, my JW parents (my mom and stepdad; my mom and dad were divorced in 1969) learned of my involvement with her and the Silentlambs organization. They immediately disinherited me and have shunned me ever since.

Beginning about 1997, my parents began shunning Barbara Anderson, after a friendship of more than 40 years. Her only crime? Ceasing to attend JW meetings.
This practice of shunning obviously creates much unnecessary pain and is extremely destructive. About 1994, CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Company) produced a documentary called "Children of Jehovah", which largely consisted of interviews with young people who quit, or were expelled from the JWs, and whose parents shunned them. One can hardly keep a dry eye watching this film. All of this shunning, of course, is done at the direction of Watchtower leaders.
My point: any proper film on Jehovah's Witnesses needs to emphasize that shunning is an odious practice and is part and parcel of being a JW.

CARTOONISH BELIEFS
I have the impression, Joel, that you were raised a JW, or at least, had a great deal of exposure to the religion while growing up. Hence your concern about showing that JWs are really not a cartoonish religion.

While JWs as individuals are certainly not cartoonish (most of my large family are JWs, so no one has to convince me of this), the Watchtower Society's beliefs and practices over the years have included many, many cartoonish images. Here is a small list, off the top of my head:

*A 1961 Watchtower magazine article, "How can girls guard against temptation in this sex-crazy world?" compared the way young girls and young men interact sexually to the way cattle do. This demeaning article invokes belly laughs from non-JWs.

*In the early 1950s, the long-standing teaching that God lives on the star Alcyone in the Pleiades constellation was formally jettisoned.

*In the early 1950s, the long-standing claim that vaccinations are a work of the devil was abandoned. This was to facilitate travel by Watchtower officials, who had to have certificates of vaccination for international travel.

*In 1945, the notion that vaccinations violate "the everlasting covenant between God and Noah" was applied to blood transfusions, and over the next decade this was gradually built into a complete ban on transfusions.

*In 1929, the teaching that the Great Pyramid of Gizeh was built at God's direction and was an important marker in "Bible chronology" was changed to be that the Great Pyramid was the work of the devil.

*Beginning in the 1920s, in the magazine "The Golden Age", the Society hawked all sorts of quack medical ideas, claiming that the medical establishment was a complete fraud.

*In the 1920s, the Society recommended a bizzare, quack machine called "The Electronic Radio Biola" as a cure for all sorts of chronic diseases.

*In 1876, the founder and first president of the Watchtower Society, Charles Taze Russell, began claiming that Christ had returned invisibly to the earth in 1874. In 1943, the Society changed this date to 1914. Russell's teaching was based on the failed prediction of his mentor, an Adventist named Nelson Barbour, that Christ would return visibly in 1874.

*In 1877, Russell claimed that Armageddon would begin in 1878. When that failed to happen, he claimed it did, but invisibly.

*In 1877, Russell predicted the complete end of all nations by 1914. This became a staple of Bible Student teaching. When that failed to occur, Russell's followers gradually decided that the end had occurred, but invisibly.

*In 1877, Russell predicted that the long-awaited "resurrection of the saints" would occur in 1878.

*In 1878, when "the saints" failed to appear, Russell predicted that they'd appear in 1881. When that failed, he claimed that they were indeed resurrected, but invisibly.
When "the end" failed to appear in 1914 but WWI began, Russell claimed that Armageddon had begun, and predicted it would end in 1918.

*In 1918, Joseph Rutherford, second president of the Watchtower Society, began an advertising campaign called "Millions Now Living Will Never Die". He predicted that Armageddon would occur in 1925.

*Between 1918 and 1925, many Bible Students prepared for "the end" by selling their property and engaging in preaching for the "Millions" campaign. When 1925 rolled past uneventfully, nearly 3/4 of the Bible Students quit.

*After 1925, Rutherford emphasized that very soon, the "ancient worthies" such as Abraham, Samuel and David would soon be resurrected and take over the governing of the earth.

*In 1929, the Society began work on a mansion for Rutherford to live in, in San Diego. This came to be called Beth Sarim.

*About 1930, Rutherford formally deeded Beth Sarim to "the ancient worthies" and described how his followers should recognize them.

Beth Sarim was initially described in Watchtower publications as a home for "the ancient worthies".
Today the Society describes Beth Sarim as a home for Rutherford. According to some sources, that's probably closer to the truth, because Rutherford, as a drunk and adulterer, was a thorn in the side of his underlings.

*In the early 1940s, the Society built a bomb shelter for Rutherford on a property near Beth Sarim and called it Beth Shan. They later claimed that they never built such a thing.

*In 1967 the Society banned organ transplants, calling the practice cannibalism. The policy was reversed in 1979.

*In 1971 the Society began teaching that the physical heart is the seat of human emotion, and carries on "conversations" with the physical brain, which determines what a person does. This teaching was illustrated at the 1971 district conventions with a giant green brain and a giant red heart on the speaker's platform, where during the introductory speech, a dialog was played with the heart and brain "talking" to one another. During the speech, the heart would light up when it "talked" and the brain would light up when it "conversed".

*In 1971, the Society began a program of instructing the JW community what to do and not do sexually, in embarrassing detail. Oral and anal sex were described in public talks, and condemned. Over the next few years this resulted in the opposite of what they intended in some cases, and in others to the disintegration of marriages. After a number of lawsuits by injured non-JW marriage partners, the Society largely abandoned these teachings in the early 1980s.

*In 1966, the Society began predicting that "big things" would come not later than 1975. By the next year, this had grown into a nearly definite prediction that the battle of Armageddon would come by 1975. When that failed to happen, the rapid growth of the JWs in the years between 1967 and 1975 reversed.

*In 1993 to 1995, upon realizing that its teachings about "the generation of 1914" were about to go down the tubes, the Society drastically revised its ideas, and made the idea virtually meaningless. Most JWs barely noticed.

*In 2002, about a week before the NBC Dateline program on child molestation problems in the JWs aired, the Society directed the elders of three congregations to disfellowship four people who were prominently to appear on the show: Barbara Anderson, William Bowen, and Carl and Barbara Pandelo. The Society claimed to the news media that the disfellowshippings had nothing to do with Dateline.

With respect to the cartoonish nature of the "1914 doctrine" of JWs, Carl Sagan made an interesting comment:
"Doctrines that make no predictions are less compelling than those which make correct predictions; they are in turn more successful than doctrines that make false predictions. "
But not always. One prominent American religion confidently predicted that the world would end in 1914. Well, 1914 has come and gone, and -- while the events of that year were certainly of some importance -- the world does not, at least so far as I can see, seem to have ended. There are at least three responses that an organized religion can make in the face of such a failed and fundamental prophecy. They could have said, "Oh, did we say `1914'? So sorry, we meant `2014.' A slight error in calculation.
Hope you weren't inconvenienced in any way." But they did not. They could have said, "Well, the world would have ended, except we prayed very hard and interceded with God so He spared the Earth." But they did not. Instead, they did something much more ingenious. They announced that the world had in fact ended in 1914, and if the rest of us hadn't noticed, that was our lookout.

It is astonishing in the face of such transparent evasions that this religion has any adherents at all. But religions are tough. Either they make no contentions which are subject to disproof or they quickly redesign doctrine after disproof. The fact that religions can be so shamelessly dishonest, so contemptuous of the intelligence of their adherents, and still flourish does not speak very well for the tough-mindedness of the believers. But it does indicate, if a demonstration were needed, that near the core of the religious experience is something remarkably resistant to rational inquiry. [Carl Sagan, Broca's Brain,Ballantine Books, New York, 1982, pp. 332-3]

I've often thought that the leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses are reminiscent of the lunatic rebel leader in Woody Allen's film "Bananas", where once he got power, he instituted all sorts of lunatic changes.

I hope that my comments give you some food for thought, and that you'll take them into account as you finalize KNOCKING. In my opinion, Jehovah's Witnesses are an extremely destructive sect, because they often destroy families and long-standing friendships. Their misguided policy on blood transfusions has killed thousands of innocents. Examined critically, many of their beliefs and much of their history are cartoonish by anyone's standards.
---------
Alan Feuerbacher
 -------------------------------- PBS Film Commentary
Jehovah's Witnesses PBS Film KNOCKING Omits the Facts. Added: (Wed Aug 10 2005).
Jehovah's Witnesses are a destructive sect, because they destroy families ...www.truthandgrace.com/WtPBS.htm - 21k
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 10 years ago

KISS & TELL-JW 'KNOCKING' Producer GAY? useful intel NOT a gay bashing thread
 
carla
carla 10 years ago

Another thought, in WI the local fund raising is coming up for public tv. Many could call and ask if that documentary will be shown, if so, then tell them how sorry you will not be able to donate this year or buy anything from the auction. Heck, we could even call each other's stations out of state and make the same claim. I'd be willing to make a few calls.
 
AlmostAtheist
AlmostAtheist 10 years ago

I've been hearing from interested ones from Arizona to Arkansas and everywhere in between
I know the director claims not to be a JW, but who else uses the phrase "interested ones"? I believe the text said his mother is a JW, I wonder how steeped he has been in the culture?
Good job, Danny and Alan!
Dave
 
outoftheorg
outoftheorg 10 years ago

There are several words and phrases in this promotion that are unique to jw's.
This is a blatant attempt to promote the wbts jw's using the pbs system to promote a cult that is dangerous to the public.
I went to the pbs site and sent them a letter "e mail" using the pedophile and shunning results and how it destroys families as a way to show pbs that this is a dangerous cult. NOT a christian religion.
Reminding them of their duty as a teaching organization does not allow them to promote a religion and even more so, not a cult. That they are actually promoting a dangerous cult.
We need to bombard pbs with letters and or e mails to make some impression of the amount of viewers that object to this project.
Outoftheorg
 
Finally-Free
Finally-Free 10 years ago

I've been hearing from interested ones from Arizona to Arkansas and everywhere in between.
Whether he means that from an alphabetical or geographical perspective, it's not very impressive.
W
 
kid-A
kid-A 10 years ago

There is no official connection to the Watchtower Society, though the Bethel organization in Brooklyn, Patterson and Wallkill,
New York has been cooperative with the producers of this film.   We interviewed Watchtower representatives on camera and filmed inside Bethel.
Watchtower has no financial ties to this project, nor any editorial control. That says it all! There is no way in HELL the WTBS would have allowed his cameras within 100 miles of them if they had not first meticulously approved the script and all the content of the documentary. This alone renders this a "non-documentary" in that the 'documentarian' has already allied himself with the subject of his investigation and completely biased his content, a priori.
 
GetBusyLiving
GetBusyLiving 10 years ago

It makes me sick to the pit of my very being that this bias shit will be unleashed on the world via PBS.
Has anyone gotten a response back to their letters of outrage?
GBL
 
Gary1914
Gary1914 10 years ago

Kid-A, I wholeheartedly agree!
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 10 years ago

We need to bombard pbs with letters and or e mails to make some impression of the amount of viewers that object to this project.
 
sf
sf 10 years ago



New York has been cooperative with the producers of this film.    We interviewed Watchtower representatives on camera and filmed inside Bethel.
Yet, they won't allow Dateline camera's in for comments on the child molestation issue or interviews regarding the "BIG NEWS".
Par!
sKally

 
valkyrie
valkyrie 10 years ago

I wouldn't act in haste to condemn or denigrate the piece before it has been viewed. Why? See how the following website ["The Masonic Connection of the Watchtower II"] demonstrates Mr. Engardio's earlier reportage on the state of JW doctrine (http://www.cephasministry.com/masonic_connection_of_the_watchtower_2.html):
The biggest change in doctrine in decades (no more "1914 generation") is having an effect on many Witnesses, though the Watchtower would not tell you that. The L.A. Times (S.F.Valley edition) ran an article on the change recently, and the Newsweek of November 18,1995 featured an article entitled, "Apocalypse Later." Newsweek magazine - December 18, 1995, p.59, Religion section. Article by Kenneth L. Woodard, with Joel P. Engardio.. Title: Apocalypse Later. Subtitle: Jehovah's Witnesses decide the end, "THE THIRD MILLENNIUM, is just four years away, and you'd think that Jehovah's Witnesses would be ecstatic. Ever since the movement's inception in the 1870s, the Witnesses have insisted that the world, as we know it, is about to end. According to their unique "Biblical" calculations, the countdown to Armageddon commenced in 1914 - the first world war was a major sign - and Christ would establish his millennial kingdom on earth "before the generation who saw the events of 1914, passes away." For countless Witnesses, this prediction was good reason not to save money, start a career or make burial plans. As one of their leaders famously preached in 1918: "Millions now living will never die."
"Now, it seems, all millennial bets are off. In last month's issue of The Watchtower, the sect's leaders quietly acknowledged that Jesus was right in the first place, when he said that "noone knows the day or the hour." All previous references to timetables for Armageddon, the magazine now suggests, were speculation rather than settled doctrine. The year 1914 still marks the beginning of the last days. But those who hoped to witness the battle of Armageddon and the establishment of God's kingdom on earth will have to wait. Henceforth, any generation that experiences such calamities as war and plagues like AIDS could be the one to witness the end times. In short, the increasingly middleclass Witnesses would do well to buy life insurance."
 ************ It appears that Mr. Engardio is capable of producing an unbiased report on some aspect of JW-life. He simply may choose not to reveal his hand too early in the 'game'. How else to secure the trust and cooperation of potentially hostile and suspicious participants?
Just food for thought. - V. (apologies, in advance, for this partial reproduction of a post from a related - but no longer active (save for my recent post) - thread).
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 10 years ago

[....But we don’t shy from criticism. Our aim is that everything is fair and accurate. We show
both the ups and downs, including what it is like for Witnesses who
have unbelieving or opposing family members, and how divided families can
find common ground. For instance, the young man who undergoes a
groundbreaking bloodless liver transplant has opposing family members who come
to the hospital to see first-hand how the new bloodless technology works.]]

What this sounds like to me,just my educated opinion:
This is misleading as most "divided JW familys" have been wrecked by the Watchtower cult in the first place and are forbidden by the WT leaders from ever finding any "common ground".The "bloodless technology" is a expeditious spin-off of a deadly and bogus no blood dogma.
Thye are going to portray "opposers" as bigoted ignorants who need to find JW/WT enlightment.
 
valkyrie
valkyrie 10 years ago

Oops! I saw DH's post (2 minutes after mine was in limbo for format correction) and almosted posted same message twice!
 
Oroborus21
Oroborus21 10 years ago

I find it pretty amazing that any of you would pre-judge something that you haven't even seen in its final form or even a rough-cut of. All you have is the description of the thing and what it has been described and what is from the website. But the thing isn't even done yet!
Why not wait to see how it actually turns out and then complain about it if you must? When you actually have facts or counter-arguments or flaws to point out. You don't know what the documentary will cover and what it won't, etc. and you are all gong off about it.
You lost a lot of credibility with this one Danny.
This kind of thing only gives opposers to JWs a bad name and proves that you are just as judgmental and biased as Jehovah's Witnesses can be. You are all no better because just as JWs do not permit certain speech and try to place a chilling effect upon certain speech - all of you that have posted in this thread advocating a prior-restraint or speaking out against this movie are doing exactly the same thing that the Society does.
-Eduardo
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 10 years ago

You lost a lot of credibility with this one Danny
I have no personal ego and no credentials or credibilty to worry about losing.Aren't you some kind of prestigious legal hack?
There are hundreds of active pro JW pages,blogs and sites already linked to Knocking.org.
Now if this is a 'fair and unbiased' production they will be in for a big shock won't they?
 

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Their "BIG" news 'KNOCKING' documentary
by DannyHaszard 10 years ago 125 Replies latest 9 years ago   watchtower scandals
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Darth Yhwh
Darth Yhwh 10 years ago

Will there be any interviews with formers JDubs that have suffered a loss of a loved one due to the WTBT's dogmatic stand on blood?
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 10 years ago

Why not wait to see how it actually turns out and then complain about it if you must?
That's what i did with 1914 generations thingy and the next thing i knew my youth was gone and i was old.
 
kid-A
kid-A 10 years ago

This kind of thing only gives opposers to JWs a bad name and proves that you are just as judgmental and biased as Jehovah's Witnesses can be. You are all no better because just as JWs do not permit certain speech and try to place a chilling effect upon certain speech - all of you that have posted in this thread advocating a prior-restraint or speaking out against this movie are doing exactly the same thing that the Society does.
Thats bullshit and you know it. If the WTBS had produced this as a pro-JW piece that would be one thing. This is a supposed "unbiased" documentary filmmaker producing a flagrantly biased film. If you go back to previous threads on this topic, you will find that Joel Engardio has repeatedly brushed off the input of "apostates" who wrote elegant, thoughtful letters asking him to at least show both sides of the issue. Do you really think he will be showing JWs letting their children die over the blood issue? Interviewing molestation survivors? No. Instead he glorifies the JW blood policy by calling them "medical revolutionaries" (this term is his own, not mine). Engardio is producing a documentary to be shown on a PUBLICLY owned network that is supposed to be entirely free of outside bias. His website proves this is not the case. Your tax dollars support PBS and thereby Engardio is using public funds to endorse a "religious" corporation. Interestingly, Engardio isnt too interested in the input of anybody disagreeing with his take on the JWs, and if you doubt this, go back to older threads to see his fluff responses to Barb Anderson.
 
YoursChelbie
YoursChelbie 10 years ago









 I'm really not too concerned about yet another piece of propaganda.



 Any thinking person will get information from other sources and not just from this movie to base their true opinion about the Watchtower. If a viewer's BS meter is working, you can be sure they'll get on the net to get all sides to the story.



http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/106456/1847888/post.ashx#1847888



 Movie Documentary



http://www.commentarypress.com/booklist-eng.html



 Books by Ray Franz



http://www.freeminds.org http://www.reexamine.org http://davidgladden.com http://dannyhaszard.com to name a few.



 The internet.
YC
 
valkyrie
valkyrie 10 years ago

I wouldn't act in haste to condemn or denigrate the piece before it has been viewed. Why? See how the following website ["The Masonic Connection of the Watchtower II"] demonstrates Mr. Engardio's earlier reportage on the state of JW doctrine (http://www.cephasministry.com/masonic_connection_of_the_watchtower_2.html):
Are there really no responses to this post (in full, above)? No new ground to be considered?
 
Oroborus21
Oroborus21 10 years ago

Kid-A,
I think you misunderstand the real role of PBS (this reminds me of the whole Mapplethorpe controversy regarding NEA from a few years back).
there is a lot on PBS that I might not personally agree with. That is the beautiful thing about America and why I thank God every day that we don't live in a totalitarian nation that restricts a multiplicity of views.
Like someone said, there is a wealth of counter-JW info out there and now thanks to the Internet readily available to many people.
The point of PBS is to provide many viewpoints and material that is of interest to the viewing pubic. JWs are among the largest religious bodies in the U.S. and well known by many.
I don't expect the documentary to present the counter-information based on what I know about its creator or the website info. But it doesn't have to. That is what counter-speech and the marketplace of ideas is all about.
What concerns me is that there would be an effort to engage in a prior restraint or to bring bad press upon speech which hasn't even been "uttered" yet!
That is exactly what PBS, and the ideals underlying a democracy and republic like the United States of America is completely against.
As I say, this type of activity only mimics exactly one of the major problems within the JW faith - that of censorship and prior-restraint upon the freedom of speech.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you love free speech you have to allow other's to engage in speech that you might not want to hear - even if they speak only in half-truths or lies.
Everyone deserves a turn on the soapbox. Those who only wish to reserve the right to speak for themselves are no better than any tyrant who would do the same.
-Eduardo
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 10 years ago

Are there really no responses to this post (in full, above)? No new ground to be considered?
I am thrilled with your post but am hedging restraint on validation because i don't know you or your source yet.
Nothing personal against you mate.
Any backup comfirmations on this information?
 
Oroborus21
Oroborus21 10 years ago

By the way folks,
This is not really NEW: Anyone ever heard of Marley Cole's book: Jehovah's Witnesses - New World Society
Same thing just a different medium.
I guess there are those of you that would have tried to prevent that book from being published or given it bad press before it came out too.
It's called a marketplace of ideas for a reason folks.
-Eduardo
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 10 years ago

Everyone deserves a turn on the soapbox. Those who only wish to reserve the right to speak for themselves are no better than any tyrant who would do the same.
-Eduardo
Bravo! That's why i created this thread,so you could post your opinion on this issue.
Enough already,let this thread be our sorting station for intell on this documentary. Post any information updates here ,let's not be caught by surprise
 
valkyrie
valkyrie 10 years ago

I am thrilled with your post but am hedging restraint on validation because i don't know you or your source yet.
'I' am unimportant to this offering; the "source(s)" are listed within the post and can be checked:
1. the website, "The Masonic Connection of the Watchtower II", http://www.cephasministry.com/masonic_connection_of_the_watchtower_2.html
2. "Newsweek of November 18,1995 featured an article entitled, "Apocalypse Later." Newsweek magazine - December 18, 1995, p.59, Religion section. Article by Kenneth L. Woodard, with Joel P. Engardio. Title: Apocalypse Later."
Whilst I appreciate your attention to the post, I was not seeking "validation" [does one's contributions to the forum have to be validated by a thereto authorised official before being taken into consideration by the general public?], but reasoned commentary... i.e., feedback.
V.
 
IP_SEC
IP_SEC 10 years ago


 I kinda got to agree with valk. Even if it is pro dub, so what, people arent that stupid. (yes i am naive)
Any chance to get he producer to come and give his comments here?
Whoa! Im agreeing with Ed tooo. Cheers Ed, you are now validated . Bonifide that is.
 
valkyrie
valkyrie 10 years ago

...and another thing :
For additional aid in gaining perspective, please refer to my post (earlier today) on DH's thread,
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/96879/1872139/post.ashx#1872139
[See article reproduced as preliminary.] This is, as DH said, 'background information' - perhaps useful in reasonably framing your anticipation of Mr. Engardio's perspective (to be revealed in the final edited programme).
 
Finally-Free
Finally-Free 10 years ago

I say, let 'em have their foolish documentary. The more they talk, the more ammunition we have. They just can't help saying something stupid.
W
 
BlackSwan of Memphis
BlackSwan of Memphis 10 years ago

I looked at the site and figured, since I can't see it, I don't want to make too much of a judgement over it.
What did concern me is that under the characters thumbnail, you see that he interviewed 3 people, 2 active witnsses and one raised. I wrote two letters. One to PBS ombudsman and one to our local station.
In gist what I said was...
That it is great to show how the jw's have benefitted society and what not, but if pbs airs this, I feel that they have a journalistic responsibility to show both sides of the argument. Not just the pro.
Freedom of speech is a marvelous thing, I don't want this show to Not be aired, I just want both sides told.
meagan
 
DevonMcBride
DevonMcBride 10 years ago

I think this could be egg in their face. If those who watch the program want more info, they will go straight to the internet and Google 'Jehovah's Witnesses'. This forum will be busier with inquiries.
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 10 years ago

It appears that Mr. Engardio is capable of producing an unbiased report on some aspect JW-life. He simply may choose not to reveal his hand too early in the 'game' . How else to secure the trust and cooperation of potentially hostile suspicious participants?
Just food for thought. - V.
Cheers to that
 
r51785
r51785 10 years ago

One thing that I have learned over the years since I left the dubs is that most people know virtually nothing about the dubs and could not care less about their religion. The main audience for this film will be dubs just as the main audience for the Marley Cole book was dubs. Dubs will get all excited and blather back and forth to each other about what a wonderful witness this film will give. Or on the other hand if anything remotely critical is included, the dubs will get all excited and blather back and forth to each other that this is all the work of the evil "apostates." Face it, given the current state of dub theology, there is no way this film will be able to make these people look normal.
 
Severus
Severus 10 years ago

Let's call a spade "a spade." Knocking is a pro-JW piece and any research into production will prove it.
It is important that PBS and other media outlets know that. Then let them make the decision whether they will broadcast cult-recruiter movies.
Would any network knowingly broadcast a movie promoting a damaging cult? I think not.
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 10 years ago

 
think this could be egg in their face. If those who watch the program want more info,they will go straight to the internet and Google 'Jehovah's WitnessesThis forum will be busier with inquiries.
 Jehovah's Witnesses PBS Knocking keywords http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Jehovah%27s+Witnesses+PBS+Knocking&btnG=Google+Search click me Israel News Agency To Post Iran Holocaust Cartoons
Israel News Agency, Israel - 35 minutes ago
... Other groups were persecuted on political and behavioral grounds, among them Communists, Socialists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and homosexuals. ... Jerusalem----February 13.....In response to Iran's best-selling newspaper announcing a competition to find the best cartoons about the Holocaust, the Israel News Agency has begun to post the Holocaust cartoons.  "Iran is seeking any means to divert attention away from the fact that they are building nuclear weapons," said Joel Leyden, publisher of the Israel News Agency. "Iran states that they want to test the democratic limits of Western free speech by laughing at the Holocaust, and the INA is more than pleased to oblige in posting these cartoons. The only catch is that we are doing so with an educational, factual disclaimer inserted inside these Holocaust cartoons. It states: "Six Million Jews Were Gassed, Shot and Hung During the Holocaust. This cartoon does not promote 'free speech' rather it illustrates Islamic racist hate and incitement to violence against all other religions." The Israel News Agency in posting these Holocaust cartoons from Iran, has launched an SEO - Internet search engine optimization marketing contest to prevent Iran and Islam terrorist groups news Websites from reaching top positions in Google. This is the first time that a SEO contest was created for a political and humanitarian cause. And the INA has secured Olympic gold in its quest to outrank any and all Arab and Islam Websites as when one searches for the key words: "iran holocaust cartoons" the Israel News Agency has secured a Google first place ranking. The Israel News Agency uploaded four Holocaust cartoons from Iran today. One cartoon doubted that the murdered Holocaust victims were Jewish, another depicted Anne Frank in bed with Adolph Hitler. "When I heard that a newspaper in Iran was now holding a cartoon contest on the Holocaust, I knew that SEO would be the most potent tool in combating it," 
 
Oroborus21
Oroborus21 10 years ago

just a final word from me (promise Danny)
you guys are funny the more controversy you stir up, the more emails and letters you send to PBS the more you will guarantee that the thing gets run (and maybe more than once)
The network is dying to increase viewership and knowing that if they do run it, not only will they feel like JWs will tune in, they may get the feeling that a lot of opponents will tune in to.
Maybe threatening to cancel PBS support or not to donate in the future will make them blink, but otherwise with no advertisers to really worry about, and knowing that any thing with controversy is going to draw a nice size audience, you are working against yourselves.
the best strategy would be to ignore it completely.
-Eduardo
 

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knocking documentary newsletter #1 summer 2005. .
witnesses.
stories of real families to humanize jehovah's witnesses.



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Their "BIG" news 'KNOCKING' documentary
by DannyHaszard 10 years ago 125 Replies latest 9 years ago   watchtower scandals
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Kaput
Kaput 10 years ago

the best strategy would be to ignore it completely
Like the JWs do with apostates. Hmmmmm. I guess turnabout is fair play. Let's see if that works.
 
Hellrider
Hellrider 10 years ago

You are all no better because just as JWs do not permit certain speech and try to place a chilling effect upon certain speech - all of you that have posted in this thread advocating a prior-restraint or speaking out against this movie are doing exactly the same thing that the Society does.
What`s wrong with speaking out against a movie? Isn`t that called...freedom of speech? Noone have said that there should be an attempt at stopping the movie, legally, have they? So, if any "apostate" goes around to the TV-networks, and says "we have heard that you are about to air Knocking. We in the ex-JW-community feels that this movie is misleading and misrepresents the organisation of the Jehovahs witnesses. Would you be interested in hearing more on our views on this matter? Perhaps an interview with some ex-JWs, to be aired also on your network, would help balance out this whole thing?"
Now, what`s wrong with that? I thought it was called freedom of speech.
 
outoftheorg
outoftheorg 10 years ago

My purpose in e mailing pbs is not to stop this so called documentary. It is to make the people that run pbs aware that there is another side to this cult. That there are many that were hurt by this cult.
That there is a great number of people who are not being represented in "Knocking".
That this "knocking" is an attempt to "use" pbs to run a program that supports a particular cult masquerading as a christian religion.
About premature action (o so boring), being frowned on in this democracy, check out the republicans and the democrats.
Democracy actually favours any kind of action that is legal to get ones opinions across the earlier the better.
Outoftheorg
 
sf
sf 10 years ago

http://www.freeminds.org/women/knockingresponse.htm
 
one
one 10 years ago

ignore "knocking"?
the guy pre-announced the event giving a lot of questionable details... either he ignores other details about the WT or is plain decptive.
Giving him the benefit of the doubt, providing him with some hard facts wont hurt. He obviously is DETEMINED to produce the show.
It seem that the real purpose of informing him is not to stop the production of the shwo but for him to produce a more 'balanced' informative 'show'
If he ignores the hard facts in his tv production, then you know for sure who you are dealing with.
THEN any critics, after airing the "show", wil carry more weight and will provide 'evidence' as to where the credibility finger should be pointing to. As he 'knew or should have kown' the whole story..
 
stillAwitness
stillAwitness 10 years ago

Keep in mind that every Jehovah's Witness who has contributed to this
film, either on camera or behind the scenes, has done so by their own
personal choice. There is no official connection to the Watchtower
Society, though the Bethel organization in Brooklyn, Patterson and Wallkill,
New York has been cooperative with the producers of this film.
This is totally against Society's rules! Absolutely in no way possible would the Society allow any of the DUBS to speak about any topics to the media.They're allowed to say "Yes, I am one of Jehovah's Wittnesses, that's all I will say" and then direct to the person who overseas that talking with the medica ( I remember the WT article on this) Anyone else know what I am talking about?
 
stillAwitness
stillAwitness 10 years ago

Have there been any documentaries made yet about what really goes on? Someone needs to get the ball rolling.
I think I will talk with some student filmakers on campus about this...A change needs to be made.
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 10 years ago

This is totally against Society's rules! Absolutely in no way possible would the Society allow any of the DUBS to speak about any topics to the media.They're allowed to say "Yes, I am one of Jehovah's Wittnesses, that's all I will say" and then direct to the person who overseas that talking with the medica ( I remember the WT article on this) Anyone else know what I am talking about?
This is correct,in 1986 i gave away a case of amplified Bibles to all the MS and Elders in my Circuit.I caught Hell for writing a two paragraph commentary in the inside flap.
They said.[quote] ONLY THE FDS HAS BEEN AUTHORIZED BY JEHOVAH TO SAY OR WRITE COMMENTARY ABOUT THINGS SPIRITUAL {unqoute}
All this was instigated by a jealous MS from the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses Rockland Massachusetts.-Danny Haszard
 
drew sagan
drew sagan 10 years ago

I really don't think this documentary will have much of an effect either way. I'm sure some Witnesses will watch it with excitement, but when all is said and done, who cares? I don't think any religion has ever gained mass conversion by a PBS TV program. Their website said they hoped to premier this as Sundance in 2006, looks like that didn't happen. Oh well.
 
Madame Quixote
Madame Quixote 10 years ago

Oroborus - You bore us. I agree with Danny and only question your credibility, as you seem to be an apologetic for the WBTS, which has misrepresented secular facts to promote its cult practices - practices which have resulted in suffering and death.

Additionally, my limited experience in the study of law, as a paralegal student, suggests to me that you probably are a hack.

The WBTS is a destructive cult; and pre-emptive strikes against such home-wreckers and death-dealers is most appropriate. Your defense of them is not.
Quote from Oroborus: "JWs are among the largest religious bodies in the U.S. and well known by many."
Now, I'm absolutely certain you don't know what the hell you're talking about, Oro bore us. Your statement is definitely a good enough reason for me to continue questioning your credibility.
 
Kaput
Kaput 10 years ago

All this was instigated by a jealous MS from the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses Rockland Massachusetts.-Danny Haszard
Danny;
We all know that the poor guy is just following the example of his heavenly father! You DO remember ol' Exodus 34:14, don't ya? The part where it says "because Jehovah, whose name is Jealous, he is a jealous God"? (NWT, of course!)
 
AuldSoul
AuldSoul 10 years ago

I just sent the following email to Joel. I will keep you apprised of any responses.
Dear Joel,
I would like to point up what I believe is a fair question I have regarding the factual accuracy of your "Knocking" documentary.
In a promo piece I recently read, you wrote: "And we do have Jehovah's Witnesses who are serving as consultants for factual accuracy." Don't you think that is a bit like asking a telephone line service provider to provide factual consultation on their line service?
I was a baptized Jehovah's Witness for 20 years and I have recently disassociated myself because I finally admitted to myself that the organization I was claiming to represent had never existed and would never exist. Active Jehovah's Witnesses are the least likely people to know the facts about their religion. I speak from personal experience, I was clueless of so many things about the religion.
Did you have any ex-Jehovah's Witnesses serving as consultants? If not, how can you be sure you are fairly presenting the religion?
I assure you, I don't want to sabotage your project, but I certainly hope you have presented the "fair look" that your press releases claim. Otherwise, you will only succeed in creating an enormous outpouring of negative press for the Jehovah's Witnesses. I have no doubt that your documentary will increase public awareness and interest in Jehovah's Witnesses, and the factually accurate truth is only a few mouse-clicks away.
Time will tell what sort of documentary you have produced and I will happily reserve personal judgment until I see the piece.
In your release, you mentioned that the documentary covers the blood doctrine. That is a very timely issue to bring up. Were you aware of a paper written by Kerry Louderback-Wood titled "Jehovah's Witnesses, Blood Transfusions and the Tort of Misrepresentation" published in the Autumn 2005 issue of Baylor's Journal of Church and State? Papers nationwide recently ran an AP News story on it that was written by Richard Ostling. It is getting quite a lot of print and Internet media attention.
I do hope you have fairly presented the blood doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses so the public will be fully aware of this religions history of blatant misrepresentation of medical facts to its adherents. It would be a shame if your documentary claimed to be fair and then proved to be less than fair, especially in light of the publicity machine that is getting stirred up over that specific issue.
If you would consider having an ex-Jehovah's Witness (with a LARGE family of active Jehovah's Witnesses) as a consultant on the piece, please let me know. I assure you, I will be interested.
Respectfully,
Xxxxxx Xxxxxx
We'll see what happens.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul
 
seesthesky
seesthesky 10 years ago

"Additionally, my limited experience in the study of law, as a paralegal student, suggests to me that you probably are a hack."
wow - a paralegal student - impressive!
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 10 years ago

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/107825/1.ashx companion thread,yea this is how we do it baby
 
Mr. Kim
Mr. Kim 10 years ago

 IF only we (this forum) could have the ear and eyes of the public just like "film" does! This film is slanted, that much is guaranteed!
 
one
one 10 years ago

for thos who question if 'Oroborus21" is really a lawyer... it should be easy to find out, with or without his cooperation, specially by his own comments about the state she practice law..
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 10 years ago

LATEST UPDATE
KNOCKING Newsletter Update
February 2006www.knocking.org
There is much news to report about the documentary film KNOCKING on
Jehovah's Witnesses.
-- Production and editing is complete! You will soon be able to see the
63-minute documentary at film festivals and community screenings this
spring
and summer. A shorter, 53-minute version will be broadcast nationally
on PBS
in the fall. Home DVDs of the long version will be available this
summer
with lots of bonus features and extra material.
-- Emmy award-winning documentary series Independent Lens has picked up
KNOCKING for broadcast on PBS in the fall 2006 season. More details to
come
on their web site: www.pbs.org/independentlens
-- The University of Nevada and Truckee Meadows Community College in
Reno
hosted a special sneak preview screening of KNOCKING on Feb. 7. The
documentary was shown on two screens simultaneously on opposite ends of
the
campus. The response was so great that the college had to open a second
theater to accommodate the overflow crowd.HOW TO GET THE DVD
If you haven’t already, be sure to click on “Get More Info” and enter
your
email address and zip code at www.knocking.org We’ll send you
information
when the DVD is ready. There will be lots of bonus features.
HOW TO SEE KNOCKING IN YOUR CITY
We will be doing sneak preview screenings in various cities this
summer. We
will pick the cities based on the zip codes you enter at www.knocking.org
If we see a huge number of respondents from the Atlanta area, for
example,
then we know there is enough interest in that location to do a sneak
preview
screening.
Please email us at knockingdirector@msn.com if you want to
organize a screening in your area. We will be relying on local
volunteers to
organize these community screenings. If you want to make it happen,
take the
initiative! It is easy to rent a local theater and charge small
admission to
cover expenses.
Or if you live in a university town, ask the dean of
the
history, religion, sociology, law or medical school departments to host
a
screening. Direct them to www.knocking.org so they can see that all of
these
topics are covered in KNOCKING. If you email us wanting to organize a
screening please, type SCREENING VOLUNTEER in the subject heading.
SPREAD THE WORD
A number of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the Reno, Nevada area have already
seen
KNOCKING. They will no doubt be telling their friends about the
experience.
Direct friends, family, co-workers, classmates and neighbors to www.knocking.org.
UPCOMING FESTIVAL SCREENINGS
If you live near Cleveland, Ohio or East Lansing, Michigan you will be
able
to see KNOCKING for yourself in March!
CLEVELAND INTERNATIONAL FILM FESTIVALwww.clevelandfilm.org
Screening times:
Friday, March 17 @ 7pm
Saturday, March 18 @ 2:30pm
Monday, March 20 @ 9:45am
Tickets available at www.clevelandfilm.org or by calling the Film
Festival
Hotline at 216-623-FILM, ext. 7. Tickets go on sale to members only on
Friday, February 24th and to the general public on Friday, March 3rd.
Ticket
prices for most films are $8 per film for members, $10 for non-members,
and
$8 for students/seniors (day of show only).
Screening location:
Tower City Cinemas at Tower City Center in downtown Cleveland.
EAST LANSING FILM FESTIVAL
Michigan State Universitywww.elff.com
Screening time:
Friday, March 24 @7pm
Tickets available at www.presaleticketing.com
-------
This Update is sponsored by Open Door Films, and is provided as a
public
service to support conversations around the film, "Knocking."
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 10 years ago

Seeking activist who live in Cleveland Ohio usa
Screening times:
Friday, March 17 @ 7pm
Saturday, March 18 @ 2:30pm
Monday, March 20 @ 9:45amTickets available at www.clevelandfilm.org
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 10 years ago

EAST LANSING Michigan  FILM FESTIVAL
Michigan State University www.elff.com
Screening time:
Friday , March 24 @7pmTickets available at www.presaleticketing.com
 
slugga
slugga 10 years ago

Sounds to me that someones knocking out a pro witness film that's going straight to dvd so that he can flog it to some of those 6 million witnesses that love this sort of crap. Someone other than the wtbts is after those witness dollars.


 

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knocking documentary newsletter #1 summer 2005. .
witnesses.
stories of real families to humanize jehovah's witnesses.



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Their "BIG" news 'KNOCKING' documentary
by DannyHaszard 10 years ago 125 Replies latest 9 years ago   watchtower scandals
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Zapper_1
Zapper_1 10 years ago







"Thank you for informing me about the upcoming showing of "Knocking" on PBS. I look forward to this documentary's exploration of Jehovah's Witnesses policies about Shunning and the destruction of families, child molestation and abuse, and doctrinal reversals. It will also be valuable when the checkered history of Jehovah's Witnesses is discussed, especially during the Rutherford era.

Please feel free provide me with more information on this program in order that I might watch it as an informed viewer. Thank you."
It will be interesting to see what kind of answer, if any, that I'll receive.
 
AuldSoul
AuldSoul 10 years ago

If "a number of Witnesses" have already seen the film, it is a safe bet that he is working VERY intimately with the GB on this (whether he knows it or not) and that his "documentary" is nothing more than pro-JW infomercial with a little skewed human-interest history tossed in for good measure.
Dishonesty is sure to abound, intellectually and otherwise.
Damnit.
AuldSoul
 
Madame Quixote
Madame Quixote 10 years ago

From the Knocking newsletter promo:
"Or if you live in a university town, ask the dean of the history, religion, sociology, law or medical school departments to host a screening."
How about those of us who do live in such university towns, where showings of "Knocking" are planned, contact these same professors and insist they give equal time to ex-JWs, especially those "disfellowshipped" and/or labelled apostate, and to the non-JW relatives who have been negatively affected by the conversions of their loved ones?
How about we schedule discussions and debates after each showing and discuss issues such as the JW's UN membership; child molestation and wife-battering cases; other forms of child abuse; control tactics typically used by cults; how cults are identified; the use of HLCs by the WBTS; wrongful death suits against them; and misrepresentation of medical facts by the WBTS?
After all, turnabout is fair play. If they want publicity, they'll get it, don't you think?
BTW, don't you think there will be plenty of current JWs attending the screenings? And probably not many people from the general public are going to be there? What better opportunity to plant the seeds of doubt than in such a public forum?
 
Odrade
Odrade 10 years ago

Excellent idea Madame Q. I think stillA's idea to see if any film students would do a piece on the other side is also an excellent idea. If it is professional enough, there are probably plenty of ex-JWs who would like to see it played/discussed in the religion and philosophy departments of their own Universities.
 As far as OROBORUS, I believe his credentials have been dug up, and he really is a lawyer, (and a mail-order bride dealer.) What I find a great deal more telling regarding his personal bias is what he says himself in his profile here on JWD. It is his stated purpose that he intends to contribute to revolutionizing the present Organization and the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses. He is clearly invested in seeing it survive and thrive, with a few (minor?) changes, so it is in his interest to marginalize any complaint about the WTS so as to mitigate damage done by "opposers" who wish to expose the truth about the WTS and its deadly policies.
 The bottom line is that Oroborus is actively working against any efforts we might make to rescue our loved ones OUT OF THE WTS because he wants to see the Organization survive and thrive. He constantly undermines by claiming that his view is one of logic, balance, reason and legality, when in fact he has his head stuck in the sand, and is fighting against bringing facts to light about the real damage and culpability of the WTS for their actions. A piece like Mr. Engardio's plays right into that stated purpose as it personalizes the religion. It's much harder to see the evils of a giant corporation if you can put a familial face on it. If people at the doors see JWs as individuals rather than JWs, it makes the conversion process much easier. And I get the impression that Oroborus WANTS people to find their way INTO the WT, rather than away from it.
 I personally find this far more offensive than the occasional troll who shows up here and says "you're wrong, Jehovah's going to destroy all the apostates!"
 
stillAwitness
stillAwitness 10 years ago

if you live in a university town, ask the dean of the history, religion, sociology, law or medical school departments to host a screening."
NO WAY!!!! If I even find out they would hold such a screening at my school I will make sure I get in contact with every ex-DUB in the state of Georgia to speak against it.
 
Death to the Pixies
Death to the Pixies 10 years ago

You guys are pathetic.
 
Death to the Pixies
Death to the Pixies 10 years ago

<<<I agree with Danny and only question your credibility>>

You are going to agree with Danny and THEN question someone elses credibility. A documentary should not be causing this much disturbance in your life... Maybe you should sit a few plays out in regards to this religion, maybe relax a bit.
No-one, ever, should agree with one of Dannys viewpoints....
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 10 years ago

No-one, ever, should agree with one of Dannys viewpoints....
This stalking JW apologist troll has searched through thousands of post,articles and threads relevant to Danny Haszard (elsewhere on the web as well) to find one that hints of a critique so he/she can seize on it.

Danny Haszard should not be causing this much disturbance in your life...
 
Death to the Pixies
Death to the Pixies 10 years ago

Danny Haszard should not be causing this much disturbance in your life...

Hey, He has a sense of humour.... Probably closer to 5 than to 1000-s, and as far as "stalking", well I was just curious about your racist views :>) Wanted an answer...
 
Finally-Free
Finally-Free 10 years ago

No-one, ever, should agree with one of Dannys viewpoints....
Why? Because you say so? And who are you? And why should anyone give a flying fuck for your worthless opinion on any subject?
Danny has established a fine track record, while you are less than nothing.
W
 
moshe
moshe 10 years ago

Why? Because you say so? And who are you? - hmm,I wonder, too ,mr pixies
What we really want to hear from you is what it's like to live in a disfunctional JW family- you have a brother and sister who are by your own admission are messed up. JW's just can't seem to admit that the WT might have caused some problems in their life. It can all start with an honest admission of "I'm not happy". I have asked many JW's that question "are you happy" and after the say -yes or sure- I ask -"when are you going to stop lying?". The reason I mention this ,is a householder asked me that very question over 25 years ago. I kept asking myself why I was lying to everyone around me- G-d sure knew I was living a lie. I didn't know it then, but I had already started on the path out of the JW's as soon as I admitted to myself that, "I was not happy being a JW".
I would not be surprised if their are now more ex-JW's than JW's in good standing (and with a new rule tomorrow from the Go verninbg Body you can summarily be placed in the bad standing category). A thinking person should start to notice that a awful lot of passengers are bailing off the SS Watchtower- maybe you need to look a little more carefully and you will see that the ship is taking on water fast. Throwing JW's (disfellowshipping/shunning) off the boat might help you avoid seeing the gapping hole in this rotten boat, but it's still going down- last call for a lifeboat-any takers?
peace,
Moshe
-jumped ship in 1988
 
Death to the Pixies
Death to the Pixies 10 years ago

<<<What we really want to hear from you is what it's like to live in a disfunctional JW family- you have a brother and sister who are by your own admission are messed up. JW's just can't seem to admit that the WT might have caused some problems in their life. It can all start with an honest admission of "I'm not happy". I have asked many JW's that question "are you happy" and after the say -yes or sure- I ask -"when are you going to stop lying?". The reason I mention this ,is a householder asked me that very question over 25 years ago. I kept asking myself why I was lying to everyone around me- G-d sure knew I was living a lie. I didn't know it then, but I had already started on the path out of the JW's as soon as I admitted to myself that, "I was not happy being a JW".>>>
Reply:Well since you ask, they were non-JW related reasons why certain members of my immediate family have/had problems. Both parents had passed by the time I was 18...My brother and sister were both out on their own when this happened. They kinda went buck-wild a bit. I was lucky enough to catch on with a JW family and it helped out a great deal. "Dysfunctional"? from my perspective I think it is time to admit that many people have had a hand in their own dysfunction and not look for the scapegoat. Some people, in all walks of life, simply cannot avoid dysfunction. It is a part of life. The way you heal yourself is by taking responsibility and correcting it.
I guess JWs could be the un-loving dangerous cult as portrayed by certain admittedly "dysfunctional" ones, but as we see from those who have investigated apart from the dissenters, like in "Knocking", that is not the viewpoint they apparently walked away with. But we should suppress this view? Right? Speak against it, without really even knowing how "Knocking" handles the situation; for it is impossible to do a piece on JWs and come away with a positive view? He did not do a good enough job, this skilled, Non-JW educated film-maker. We should take the opinion of unhappy dysfunctional critics (like the superbly elegent Danny Haszard) who speak out before even hearing the piece..? Are we (metaphorically speaking of course,) "Disfellowshipping" this work before even a Judical Committee is held? Tsk..Tsk..
 
AuldSoul
AuldSoul 10 years ago

You guys are pathetic.
So saith the JW apologist
So, Death to the Pixies, I have a few questions for you whenever you feel up to answering them Scripturally.
Death to the Pixies: A few questions, just for you...
Here's a thread all our own.
Curiously,
AuldSoul
 
moshe
moshe 10 years ago


 I guess it's all in the "eye of the beholder"-right? Take our President Bush here in the USA- when I look at his face and watch him on TV, I see an evasive individual- he has a certain 'shifty' look to me, I don't trust him! Other people see a great President. The only thing that matters is what history says about him in 20-40 years, history will prove to us if he was a great -or one of the worst Presidents .Can we not use history to see if the Watchtower Society has been a great religion , or one of the worst? Those of us on this discussion board who are former members of Jehovah's Witneses have done this and found the Watchtower society to fall into the 'worst' category. Living in the present will not reveal the truth about this organiztion. You are ,too close to just one page of history- you need to step way-way back, Mr. Pixie, to see whole story about the Watchtower Society.
good luck,
Moshe
 
AuldSoul
AuldSoul 10 years ago

that is not the viewpoint they apparently walked away with.
What part of "I was never baptized as one of Jehovah's Witnesses" didn't you understand? The KNOCKING documentarian was never a JW and did not COLLECT or INCLUDE the persepctives of ex-JWs of any stripe. His mother was a JW. He could not have possibly included ex-JW testimonials and received support of even the barest variety from the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. He admitted to having such nominal support.
Who in the film "walked away" from being a Witness, Death to the Pixies? Which person? Of course the views of those who ARE STILL IN are favorably expressed, otherwise they could be disfellowshipped after the piece airs. What would you expect the answers of active, practicing cultists would sound like?
Curiously,
AuldSoul
 
Death to the Pixies
Death to the Pixies 10 years ago

<<<Who in the film "walked away" from being a Witness, Death to the Pixies? Which person? Of course the views of those who ARE STILL IN are favorably expressed, otherwise they could be disfellowshipped after the piece airs. What would you expect the answers of active, practicing cultists would sound like?>>>>

Reply: So confrontational. You do not need X-JWs to give a balanced perspective in a documentary.. . The Producer can study the issues himself and weave a fair piece. Relax, you have not seen the movie bro, wait, then discuss. Until this happens you are only proving the point often made against X-Jws.

I do think the pre-emptive uproar is classic.
 
Death to the Pixies
Death to the Pixies 10 years ago

<<<guess it's all in the "eye of the beholder"-right? Take our President Bush here in the USA- when I look at his face and watch him on TV, I see an evasive individual- he has a certain 'shifty' look to me, I don't trust him! Other people see a great President. The only thing that matters is what history says about him in 20-40 years, history will prove to us if he was a great -or one of the worst Presidents .Can we not use history to see if the Watchtower Society has been a great religion , or one of the worst? Those of us on this discussion board who are former members of Jehovah's Witneses have done this and found the Watchtower society to fall into the 'worst' category. Living in the present will not reveal the truth about this organiztion. You are ,too close to just one page of history- you need to step way-way back, Mr. Pixie, to see whole story about the Watchtower Society.

good luck, >>>

Reply: That is fair enough, I had my non_Jw phase as I did not get baptized til recently. I know both worlds, and I know that the JW faith is not the hate-filled destructive cult portrayed here. I believe it is this consistent over-drma that turns people off. Can you really say you guys can give a fair piece about Jws in any setting, taking all sides into account? I say no, I believe Joel can given his distance from the faith. With the spotlight on you, you fellas just may explode in anticipation :>)
 
carla
carla 10 years ago

We can still make a difference, write letters to PBS and ask them not to air this propaganda. Write your local PBS and tell them you will not donate or buy from their auction if they show such biased material. Write to government official who want to keep supporting PBS with public funds. The SE WI auction will be coming this spring, those in this area can make your voice heard with letters, phone calls, and NOT purchasing from the auction. Continue to 'place' your anti witness literature. It doesn't take anytime at all to do. Even a few a week could make a difference.
 
Death to the Pixies
Death to the Pixies 10 years ago

Carla sums up and validates every point made.
 
IMustBreakAway
IMustBreakAway 10 years ago

Has anyone talked to anyone that has actually seen it? I ask because i have university friends, and i know some jw's that have been anxiously awaiting this. Yet no one has seen it yet. Wouldn't it be funny if the producer hypes this up gets everyone to buy it and it turns out to be a bit of "apostate" propaganda?? Just considering all the good dub rules he has broken..
 

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Topic Summary
knocking documentary newsletter #1 summer 2005. .
witnesses.
stories of real families to humanize jehovah's witnesses.



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