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Jehovah / Yahweh must be blessing the Seventh Day Adventist movement and not the Jehovah`s Witnesses.
by smiddy 2 days ago 8 Replies latest a day ago   jw friends
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smiddy
smiddy 2 days ago

If you look at the facts and history of both of these religions , you do see a similarity , not only in belief , but also the timing of their origins. , The 1800`s
End times ., paradise Earth ( similar to the Christadephians , Baptists ,and other End Times Religions ) etc.
The Jehovah`s Witnesses s put a lot of weight on everybody doing door to door work in the ministry .and counting the time spent doing so.
The Seventh Day Adventists do a fraction of the time doing door to door ministry by everybody in their religion , if they even require every body to go D2D and count their time. I do not know.
What I do know is that the S.D.A.`s have more than twice the number of active believers than the J.W.`s do , over a similar time of history .
So does that not indicate conclusively that the GOD of the Bible is blessing the S.D.A.`s over the J.W.`s ? , after all they have schools , Hospitals ,genuine charitable works helping the poor , afflicted disadvantaged people all over the earth., etc.
What do Jehovah`s Witnesses offer :? ....
That`s right , nothing in comparison , even the help they do do is for their own JW`s or family or interested parties , definetely not for the general public , why not ? because it would be a waste of resources , the world is lying in the power of the wicked one Satan the Devil , helping people in the world is helping Satans System of things,All of which is going to be destroyed at the" Great Tribulation" And" Armageddon" .......any day soon ......It`s just around the corner ....
smiddy
 +6 / -0
WingCommander
WingCommander 2 days ago

I thought this for a long time. The same could be said for another 1800's cult - Mormonism. (LDS)
When I was early out of the JW's, I felt the need to research their history, etc. I came across Seventh Day Adventists. I liked what I saw, and that the belief structure was similar, but not as strict. I too liked that unlike JW's, SDA's have hospitals, schools, private schools for children, charities, and outreach programs. They have abandoned some of the more whacky Ellen White prophetic nonsense. (think Millerite/Russell crap) However, upon even closer inspection I saw the same Pharasitical pattern of strict rules, odd/whacky beliefs, authoritarian dictates, Mosaic rules/laws, and familiar end-times apocalyptic literature. (yeah, they have stands at county fairs too with this same type of crap!!!). This combined with a similar Ex-SDA online presence was enough to send me running for the hills. Guess what? They also practice SHUNNING, though they'll flat out deny it, just like the JW's try and gloss it over. I'd never get involved with them now that I've done my homework.

 +1 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 2 days ago
I don't know if you know but our history is tied to the 7ths - early early on Barber and Russell took much of their beliefs from them.
 
Gayle
Gayle 2 days ago

7th day have strong tithing teaching:
https://www.adventist.org/en/information/official-statements/guidelines/article/go/-/use-of-tithe/

 
Harvard Illiterate 411
Harvard Illiterate 411 2 days ago
I had a conversation with my SDA neighbor the other day. According to her, their growth has recently exploded and she invited me to join. I'm tempted just to see what it is all about although I have already concluded that God never existed.

 +1 / -0
Phizzy
Phizzy a day ago

After a long discussion about her JW religion, I used this argument with a JW lady, a few years ago.
She dismissed the SDA's because she knew some of them that were immoral, I pointed out that even in her own Congregation ( next door one to the one I left) the only sin the Elders had not had to deal with was Murder !
She had no answer to any of it, she flounced off saying she loved her religion and would not speak with me anymore about it.
 +2 / -0
jaydee
jaydee a day ago
 
 
WingCommander
WingCommander a day ago
Yes, JW's and SDA's are children of the same 1800's movement, the Milleritte Second Advent movement. It's all so convoluted and absurd. They are sisters, but completely renounce one another. Oh, the irony.

 +1 / -0
Anders Andersen
Anders Andersen a day ago
Thanks Smiddy for another thing to add to my arsenal of arguments :smile:
 

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DO BIRDS-OF-A-FEATHER really "Flock together"?
by Terry 2 days ago 3 Replies latest a day ago   jw friends
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Terry
Terry 2 days ago

My grandfather insisted "Birds of a feather flock together" and thought it was some kind of genius rule-of-thumb for understanding life.
Then I began noticing at school, at parties, in neighborhoods, people who looked the same hung out together and excluded others.
Then, I became a Jw. They only hang out with JW's. The world was further divided into Sheep and Goats. Either/Or.
As I got older, I noticed people further divided by music they listened to, mocking others for having different "lame" tastes. The way people dressed further divided them. The economic background became a huge divider. More and more I looked and saw things like sports fanatics who hated other teams than their choice, Chevy owners who made fun of Fords, American cars vs. Japanese, etc.
Birds-of-a-feather seemed to actually flock together even though plenty of Political Correctness pretends it "shouldn't be unfair."
Among my black friends I was shocked to hear light-skinned blacks put down darker skinned blacks. What was going on with that?
Is this the secret of the Universe?
Then one day, I was in a conversation with guy who worked as a Professor, teaching Evolutionary Biology. He brought up something I hadn't thought about--it started to make sense.
A species survives by seeing "others" as competitors and singling them out and excluding them. It is hard-wired as a survival mechanism.
It has nothing to do with "fair" or "moral" because it is a leftover from tens of thousands of years of competition and survival of the fittest.
Humans have left the food chain. We won. But, we can't rid ourselves of these hidden instincts to divide off and exclude "others."
Political solutions don't work because Politics practices the VERY SAME PREJUDICES politicians pretend to want to eliminate. They divide into parties.
Liberal vs. Conservative. They mock those who disagree.
Each side will eagerly dehumanize their opponents.
They camouflage their aggression as "public service." Meanwhile, they enrich themselves just like ancient predator clans.
It all just another version of the same old bullshit.
Maybe my grandfather was right: Birds-of-a-feather flock together.
We once were JW's hanging out exclusively pointing at Christendom as "goats" and now we are Ex JW's hanging out together excluding our old gang, pointing and sneering at "those assholes."
What can we do about all this other than force our consciousness to broaden and teach ourselves to be more analytical of our motives and actions?
 +2 / -0
MaverickAmos
MaverickAmos a day ago
Life is indeed deep. But i believe indeed birds of the same stock flock. I think us vs them is primitive in humans. Education can erase this behaviour, but media misconception makes matter worse..
 
Wild_Thing
Wild_Thing a day ago

This problem is compounded by the fact that JWs promote such black and white thinking. This is especially well ingrained if you were raised in the org. Even with the best of intentions after leaving, it is hard to get rid of. It may have some to do with evolutionary make-up, but I believe most of it is a learned behavior, as least when it comes to categorizing and judging people.
On another point with this issue ... when you are a JW witness, you are forced to fly with the flock and no one else. If you live in an isolated area or go to a small congregation, all of those other factors you mentioned that are normally cohesive or divisive in the world do not matter. If you are a preteen in a congregation with only one other preteen, you better like them because they are all you've got as a friend. You could have absolutely nothing in common with this person, but you are forced to be their friend because you are forbidden to associate with any of the other "flocks" of the world.
 
prologos
prologos a day ago
birds flock at times, for protection, look at the beautiful murmurations of starlings, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1Q-EbX6d so,starlings the darlings,  startling the hawks too. but when pairing up in their breeding grounds they become territorial. The right people seem to flock & gather here.
 

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Only a few days ago I was entirely lost and without hope the rug was pulled out from under me
by elderess 6 days ago 84 Replies latest 4 hours ago   jw friends
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elderess
elderess 6 days ago

Only a few days ago I was walking around the house in a mindless wander thinking if I needed to seek professional help. Then I got the courage to seek the comfort of complete strangers on the internet and found a world of support here on this website. Thank you Simon and whoever else has made this website possible. You might have saved a life, literally.
Thousands upon thousands of hurt souls out there. So much pain and suffering caused by the very same religion that claims to have the answers to all of the pain and suffering! Maybe this was God’s answer to my prayer?
I did not find angry, violent, mouth breathing apostates but rather truly sincere, hurt and depressed souls like myself that just needed to come to terms with their new found discovery about their religion. I am blown away. I’m still shaking.
Last night, only a few hours ago actually, I got the strength to speak to my husband. I wanted to wait for the right moment to approach him so I waited until we were both in bed. He usually reads the Bible or his favorite Star Wars website.
I nonchalantly asked him if we could talk about something. I then very plainly told him I do not believe the overlapping generations teaching is correct and that after considering what the Bible says about not adding to what the scriptures say, it is clear that the overlapping generations teaching is nothing but a ploy to buy time for yet another failed prediction.
Instead of lashing out at me and telling me I am spiritually weak, he put his glasses down, took a deep breath and told me he knows that I no longer believe it and that he has been having serious reservations about it himself! I burst out into tears and he leaned over and kissed my head. We held one another as we both cried together. I am still crying as I type this.
I have never seen my husband so emotional before. The last time I can remember him crying was after his brother died. This time was different. What an emotional night. He told me he still believes in God and that the Bible is God’s word but he does not believe that we have the truth or the only truth.
I still am shaking from his words. I thought I would need to tell him about the video and email that a sister sent me that woke me up but he was already ahead of me. He has been having doubts for years but we are neck deep in the truth along with our whole family and our lives. This is all we know or ever knew.
The emotions I am still feeling cannot be expressed. I never thought it would go like this and was expecting the worst from my husband and yet here he is expressing to me that he no longer believes it.
We stayed up the whole night talking about everything. Sleep was not necessary because our bodies are running on emotion and joy and hope and peace.
The hardest part was discussing what to do next. He said the best way for us to go out is quietly and slowly, not to disrupt anyone in their faith. He will simply explain that he has health problems and can no longer serve. Then over a few months slowly fade away. We literally have not one soul to tell about this except for you anonymous strangers in the night. Neither of us have any friends outside the Witness world. Not one. Sad isn’t it? Our entire family is in it including our children and my son serves as a servant in NJ.
This will be difficult but absolutely necessary for our own spiritual health. Who can go out and preach with a good conscience if you do not truly believe or know that what you are preaching is nothing but interpretations of men who have admitted that they are not God’s only spokesmen? You can’t. Not if you are a good human.
It seems like the very topics that so many of you poor souls left for, are the common denominator others face and my husband sounded as if he was reading JWFacts but assured me he never even heard of it! He came to these conclusions on his own and after being an elder for so many years, you see that Jehovah’s hand is not really guiding anything. He opened up to me about his regrets and the way he has dealt with brothers and sisters who simply needed a shoulder to lean on but instead got disciplined.
Look how fast my life has changed in a matter of weeks! It went from living in a fog of bliss to receiving an email from a sister I never knew before that assembly to coming here to find comfort to discovering my own husband, who I never thought would be shaken out, has had lingering doubts for years even.
That is life. Sometimes it really sneaks up on you. My life might have been saved by coming here because I literally had nowhere to turn. Now I realize that thousands upon thousands of hurt and depressed souls are out there just like me.
Now my husband and I want to move on with our lives. We’re going to go to Vegas and play poker and have fun. We’re going to get involved in charity, the real kinds of charity that really help people. We’re going to get involved in politics and play a role in helping others. We’re going to celebrate our birthdays and perhaps celebrate Christmas and other holidays. We’re going to become active helping others get out from this religion. We’re going to tear up our blood cards and attorney of power bloodless surgery papers. We’re going to do more together as husband and wife and enjoy life together.
My only prayers now will be that my children wake up so we can be united as a family free of man made indoctrination.
I will be back often I hope to update you on what is going on. Thank you all from the bottom of my heart.
 +111 / -0
OneEyedJoe
OneEyedJoe 6 days ago

That's amazing! It's always great to hear another success story of a couple beating this cult. It's destroyed so many families that a victory like this is really something special. The whole world is open to you! Have fun exploring the possibilities!
How old are your children? If they're still young I'm sure they'll come out of this just fine. Kids are resilient.
 +9 / -0
freemindfade
freemindfade 6 days ago

We stayed up the whole night talking about everything. Sleep was not necessary because our bodies are running on emotion and joy and hope and peace.
This is so awesome! I am very happy you two can face all this together and not divided.
 +11 / -0
No Longer a JW Brother
No Longer a JW Brother 6 days ago
Damn you almost made a grown ass man cry reading that. Peace.

 +23 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon 6 days ago
Wow!! So happy for you both. It's rare when both Husband and wife wake up together.
 +10 / -0
ThomasCovenant
ThomasCovenant 6 days ago
Thank you for telling and best wishes to you both.
 +6 / -0
stephanie61092
stephanie61092 6 days ago

Ohmygosh!! I am so happy for you! And I admire your courage so much. I remember when I told my DFed boyfriend that I didn't believe any more, that I wanted to get reinstated and fade. I was so nervous and scared. When he told me he respected my decision, I was at peace. I was even more elated when a few weeks later he told me he thinks it's all a bunch of BS. I can only, only imagine how you must have felt telling your elder husband. So I can also only imagine the joy you've conveyed in your post. I am so happy for you and I hope you enjoy your time in vegas!! I go there quite often and always enjoy the little street shows on Fremont Street (the old strip). Again, enjoy!!!!
 +10 / -0
sissyb
sissyb 6 days ago
I am so happy for you! When I read that your husband had already woken up, I literally got the shivers! Wait til you see how fantastic life can be away from the Borg!
 +11 / -0
ToesUp
ToesUp 6 days ago

Wow, that is fantastic. You know you stated you had no friends outside of JW. Yes you do, you are married to him. What a wonderful man. He probably has had doubts for quite a while but was afraid of your response and you were both going through the emotions but afraid to approach the other mate. You took a chance and it paid off well.
Be careful how much you tell others. In fact, don't tell anyone anything. You will be surprised who will throw you under the bus. If you have to vent, vent to your husband or come on here. Trust no one who knows you.
We would love to get our families out of this cult but we have come to realize that it just won't happen. Some are one the fringes and others are uber as hell. We can't always control what others do. We still love our family dearly but we have been realistic in our thoughts on them leaving. We have told them nothing. We just don't trust anyone anymore. We have one another and that is enough. Our children were young enough to get them out and our oldest child know it was a sham of a religion before we left. Smart kid.
You will be hitting some bumpy roads ahead but it is worth the freedom. We have enjoyed our lives like never before. Just remember, keep your mouth in check. Once you reveal things to most, they believe they are doing you a favor and go talk to the elders. Don't give others the control over you and if they try to take the wheel, don't let them. YOU are in control.
Keep us posted on your progress. Enjoy life...it's short!
 +19 / -0
Sour Grapes
Sour Grapes 6 days ago

Elderess,
I am very happy for you! What I love about all of the folks on JWD is the ability to talk about our fears, our dashed dreams, our anger, and facing our mortality ( I wasn't supposed to finish high school 53 years ago) without the fear of being hauled to the back room at the KH, or hearing "we would like to stop by after the meeting Sunday," or being looked as being fringe witnesses. Once you cross that bridge there is no turning back to how it used to be. Hang in there.
Sour Grapes
 +13 / -0
TheListener
TheListener 6 days ago
AWESOME!!! I am so happy for you!!!! As I sit here typing this after just reading your OP I am just dumbstruck at how great a turn of events this is. I wish you guy the very very best. I know many others will feel the same way but I just have to say that you've given me a lot of hope that one day my wife will wake up as well.
 +10 / -0
LisaRose
LisaRose 6 days ago

Wow! I am so happy for you! What a relief it must be to be able to share this with your husband and have it turn out so well.
I am sure there will be many challenges ahead as you go through the difficult process of getting out of the religion and rebuilding your lives, but doing it together will make it so much easier. You will make new friends and build new memories as you encounter many wonderful new firsts: Your first Christmas, First time voting, first Halloween, etc.
Goodbye fear obligation and guilt, hello sleeping in on Saturday morning!
 +10 / -0
clarity
clarity 6 days ago

Wow ...beautiful letter Elderess and an awesome message! Welcome to the both of you. Exhilarating & terrifying at the same time, you may feel like you are on a rollercoaster for awhile.
By all means take your time ...armageddon is not coming. What really woke me up was the "the generation" bunk, and the overlapping generations!! What!!!
Where in jesus supposed words did he say overlapping generations? He said "Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place." and those followers that he was talking to hadn't all died 40 yrs later when Jerusalem & the temple were destroyed. Where does it mention overlapping!
Omg so many things just went right over my head ,,,,but not that one!
So huge congratulations you two ... you are on the path to freedom.
Thank you for sharing your experiences hoping to hear more from you.
clarity
 
 +8 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 6 days ago
All I can say is "holy shit Batman thats awesome! "
 +9 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 6 days ago

Image result for congratulations
I just love a happy ending!
Doc
The greatest revenge is living a happy & successful life!
 +8 / -0
OnTheWayOut
OnTheWayOut 6 days ago

Elderess, this is an awesome post. You shared with your husband and he said "Me too." I have met a few others that has a similar experience. While it didn't work out for me with my wife that way, I am still overjoyed to read when that happens. I am more hopeful for the future with my wife also.
And it sounds like your "fade" will be a fast one. I did that. Keep moving forward with your plans- no need to drag things out for years.
As far as your adult children go, you can start researching books about cults and videos on youtube and all that stuff. It may help, it may not. The biggest help to your children will be letting them see your own decisions and freedoms.
Good luck, a toast to you.
 +16 / -0
stan livedeath
stan livedeath 6 days ago

what a result ! well done .
if your an elderess---does that mean he is still an elder ? there are quite a number of serving elders on this site who are now completely awake---plus lots more who have stood down but still associate for family reasons.
see how you feel about this site for a while if your thinking of telling him about it. he will be in good company.
i left the cult before this elder rubbish was started.
 +8 / -0
Skedaddle
Skedaddle 6 days ago

Wow, in tears here! SO , so happy for the both of you! You must have been so apprehensive bringing it up and then BAM he agrees! Phew! Amazing!!! You'll be in my thoughts tonight when I have a glass of wine. Here's to the rest of your happy lives - it can't get any worse than being in a cult now:) Cheers!
 +5 / -0
jhine
jhine 6 days ago
Wow elderess , that is amazing . Jan
 +4 / -0
macys
macys 6 days ago

Amazing! And congrats!

 +5 / -0

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Only a few days ago I was entirely lost and without hope the rug was pulled out from under me
by elderess 6 days ago 84 Replies latest 5 hours ago   jw friends
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freddo
freddo 6 days ago

Fantastic news. Just. Fantastic. News.
Please bear in mind that even your kids may "turn you in" so please go slowly and carefully.
 +7 / -0
FayeDunaway
FayeDunaway 6 days ago
Loved your story. Can't believe you joined us just a few days ago, feeling completely alone and lost, ....and now you have a best friend holding your hand, right by your side, through this. And he was there all along. Will send you a PM but wanted to say that you two are very special people and I am a fan!!
 +7 / -0
Xanthippe
Xanthippe 6 days ago
That is such wonderful news! After your first thread you disappeared and I was really worried you'd just given up and gone back to the religion. I am so very thrilled for you and your husband. Please take it very, very slowly with your children. Get used to the idea yourselves first and then proceed with great caution so you can keep in touch with them and not lose them. Your plans for the future sound awesome! 🎄🎂🎈🎉🎁💜
 +6 / -0
LettMorrisSplaneit
LettMorrisSplaneit 5 days ago
I signed up after months of lurking after reading this amazing experience. Much better than anything I ever read in a yearbook :wink: I find your strength inspiring. I've only been awoken for a few months, although I always had nagging doubts that I pushed to the side. I wish you much success in your fade and I can't wait to read more about your life as an elderess.
 +25 / -0
Vidiot
Vidiot 5 days ago

Helluva way to kick off the weekend.
I like happy endings/beginnings.
 +7 / -0
millie210
millie210 5 days ago

Elderess I am so happy that life is going this way. It is due to your honesty and courage.
I think you are at the forefront of a great movement away from the Org.
It is my belief that we are all going to be in a position to help droves of people as they move away from the pain of trying to be a JW.
I think that as clear a thinker as you and your husband are, that your children will follow you common sense approach.
Cheers! Enjoy Vegas!
 +5 / -0
Dold Agenda
Dold Agenda 5 days ago

Awesome post.
But you know... we are awakening in the whole world from this cult now so i say "Hi!" from Sweden and wish you a happy silent fading to begin with!

 +15 / -0
BeautifulMind
BeautifulMind 5 days ago
Congrats Elderess!! Wondrerful story and welcome 👍🏾
 +4 / -0
Slidin Fast
Slidin Fast 5 days ago
I am sooo happy for you. It must be like getting married again! Congratulations.o
 +5 / -0
TheListener
TheListener 5 days ago
Welcome LetMorrisSplaneit!!!!! Glad you posted. Start a new thread and let us know your story, if you want to share that is.
 +10 / -0
MrsR-Awaken
MrsR-Awaken 5 days ago
I know this feeling elderess and I'm so happy for you both, congratulations!! And you know what the best part of this is? You and your husband will be more closer than ever before, your love will be tighter than before ❤ and exiting this cult will bring so much more happiness I guarantee it. My best wishes to you.
 +8 / -0
Reopened Mind
Reopened Mind 5 days ago

elderess,
I, too, was an elder's wife when I began to wake up. My husband was the PO at the time. Like you and your husband we tiptoed around each other until one of us had the courage to bring the subject up.
When he came back from temp work at Bethel he kept saying how he didn't understand why the WT was maintaining so many empty buildings. I had the scales drop from my eyes when I read an article in the local newspaper about blood and Jehovah's Witnesses, looked up the cited website, then followed links to JWN, JWfacts, and more. My husband could not understand how the Flood could have been worldwide. So I offered to research it for him. That was the beginning of our talking about how we really felt.
By this time our two boys were grown with children of their own. When we shared with them what we were learning they at first agreed it was a cult. However, they have since returned to the organization and are presently shunning us. It has been 5 years since we have seen our grandchildren.

You have been given much good advice. Take things slow and deliberate. We were fortunate to have some of my nonJW family nearby to support us. We were able to move 1000 miles away from Florida to Pennsylvania.
We are here to support you and your husband. I am sending you a PM.

Take care and best of luck on your journey out of the JW prison and into the real world.
Reopened Mind

 +14 / -0
karter
karter 5 days ago

WOW What a story all the best for both of you on your new live who knows were live will lead you both.
Karter

 +4 / -0
mrmagic
mrmagic 5 days ago
Welcome elderess what a life it is eh? So glad you are here and we're here for you. Congratulations !

 +4 / -0
Alive!
Alive! 5 days ago

Your husband must have felt such a relief to finally download his own concerns and doubts.....he truly has a partner now.
i can't help thinking it's especially tough on the men, they are either 'appointed' as an MS/Elder or considered to be a waste of space....qualities such as gentleness, kindness etc are not what enough to be considered spiritually mature.....
 +5 / -0
tor1500
tor1500 5 days ago

Hi,
I'm so happy you found this site...Just like me & many others....They save lives here..I'm almost sure of it. This site helps you vent, it helps to see you're not crazy, spiritually week, an apostate, it's ok to think, that you can understand the bible without the org. (especially if you can read). It keeps you from going to a shrink and that YOU ARE NOT ALONE.
The longer I'm there the more, I know that God is not who they say he is. I too believe in God & that is SO LOVED the world that he gave his only begotten son....I so hope this is true. When & if I leave the org. I'm not leaving God/Jesus but the org.
When I first started to study I wondered why They say God is not partial yet, they say this is God's org.
I've met some nice folks in the org. But they are just a little off. The more time you spend with them the more you see, they have a mean streak. Not all but most.
I'm so happy your husband is on board with you as well. I think to have a mate in the truth and no matter what you show or tell them, they still won't listen. I think most likely they are afraid. Or their ego gets in the way.
I'm going through the motions. I do what I'm supposed to do. I'm not new to religion, what I've found out is that religion is man's interpretation, no more no less....One can read the bible and get the message....Be nice to folks & get ready for God/Jesus to come back.
I was so weepy & happy when I read your story....I would love to meet someone that knows TTATT....that's in the hall...I do know someone but they have issues.....& she is so happy to carry Jehovah's name...so she sips the kool-aide....I didn't read all the post, but there are some great folks on here. I comment now & again...Just to add my 2 cents, it makes me feel better....
I hope we see you again on this site....
Again, I'm so happy that you know TTATT, but better yet, that your husband is on the same page with you...
Beautiful.
Tor
 +6 / -0
3rdgen
3rdgen 5 days ago

Welcome elderess! What a fabulous story! My father and both husbands were elders. Both husbands woke up before I did and were afraid of what my reaction would be to TTATT as they understood it.
Fortunately, hubby #2 slowly asked thoughtful questions and pointed out the pedophiles (yes plural) in our congregation and their sordid stories. He resigned as elder. Later we stopped attending meetings and service but he still thought WTBT$ was Gods organization gone "off the rails" We would "wait on Jah to fix it"
A Google search brought me to this site 4 years ago. After several days and nights of nonstop reading including COC I realized this group was NEVER chosen or truthful.
It was my turn to ask him a question:
Me: "So what year exactly WERE they the Truth (tm)?"
Balaamsass, (looong pause) "I guess never." That was the end of Fear, Obligation and Guilt for both of us.
Bravo to you for being sensible in how you approached your hubby and his outstanding reaction. It says so much about you both! Would love to meet the two of you someday. Cheers!
 +8 / -0
cofty
cofty 5 days ago

We’re going to go to Vegas and play poker and have fun. We’re going to get involved in charity, the real kinds of charity that really help people.
Outstanding!
Please send our best wishes to your husband.
 +5 / -0
EyesOpenHeartBroken
EyesOpenHeartBroken 5 days ago

Wow! Your story gives me hope to lay it all out there to my spouse. I've been a real chicken because things are so good in our marriage, I don't want to mess it up. But it is tearing me apart to keep it inside...
Maybe I can share a story like yours soon.
 +7 / -0
Giordano
Giordano 5 days ago

My only prayers now will be that my children wake up so we can be united as a family free of man made indoctrination.
I agree do a slow fade for the sake of family.
However at some point in time you guys may be questioned by an Elder or two, not about stepping down, but your lack of service and meeting attendance. And of course by close family members who will notice some changes.
Being gravely stumbled by the pedophile problem that you found out about watching the ARC testimony (basically what you wrote in your first topic) Is, in my opinion, something you can use to explain stepping down and stepping away........... at least to your family.
It's a growing problem and one that is going to seriously impact the beliefs of JW's. It's not going to stay hidden and the Two witness rule as applied to children is going to be very disturbing to any one learning about it.
 +5 / -0

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Topic Summary
only a few days ago i was walking around the house in a mindless wander thinking if i needed to seek professional help.
then i got the courage to seek the comfort of complete strangers on the internet and found a world of support here on this website.
thank you simon and whoever else has made this website possible.



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2002 radio interview with J.R. Brown, spokesman of WTBTS (The God Show)
by Gorbatchov 2 months ago



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Only a few days ago I was entirely lost and without hope the rug was pulled out from under me
by elderess 6 days ago 84 Replies latest 5 hours ago   jw friends
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Sabin
Sabin 5 days ago

Big Big Big Big Big HUG for you & your husband. It will seem over whelming at times but I promise it gets better better better. I was reading your story & they have just knocked on the door it's funny i haven't been to the hall for a couple of years but I still got up & ran to my husband for emotional protection, so I am so happy that your husband is right beside you it makes it so much easier when your man just puts his arms around you & says " it's o.k. baby I got your back." Always keep that in mind it will help you to keep positive.
 +8 / -0
smiddy
smiddy 5 days ago

What a great post elderess ,best wishes to you and your hubby in joining the real world .
An Aussie sends kudos to you both
smiddy
 +2 / -0
kairos
kairos 5 days ago

I'm very happy for the both of you.
Such a great experience with the BEST possible outcome.
( I have to admit that I am a little bit jealous )
What a big relief to be able to speak freely and not be accused of evil.
Best wishes on a successful fade, although a quick DA may have the biggest impact if you want to stir people up.
The shunning will begin almost immediately after you start rejecting visits or attempt to reactivate you two. I wish I DA'd years ago instead of prolonging the inevitable.
"Welcome to the real world"
 +6 / -0
GrreatTeacher
GrreatTeacher 5 days ago

I am so happy for you! This is a rare result, but, nonetheless, the one we all keep dreaming about around here.
Welcome to the rest of your life.
 +5 / -0
Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Billy the Ex-Bethelite 5 days ago

Thanks for sharing your personal experience about learning the truth about the truth! Here's my favorite line:

We’re going to go to Vegas and play poker and have fun.
That's the perfect answer to this question...

"Leave da troof? But where else would you go?..."




"We’re going to go to Vegas and play poker and have fun."






 +17 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 5 days ago

BEST NEWS EVER!
So happy for you guys.
Go slow...remain in control of your own lives, and don't allow yourselves to raise too many red flags, or be railroaded into any "meetings or discussions" that you are not comfortable with.
Life is wonderful, and there to be lived free of FOG (feat, obligation and guilt)
I have found that I feel like a child rediscovering life, the world around me and new friends....and it's a refreshing and exciting period of life!
 +6 / -0
zeb
zeb 5 days ago
Big hug to you both.
 +3 / -0
smiddy
smiddy 5 days ago

elderess , and hubby,
The difference between J.W,`s & JWN ,as a newbie you will find that both welcome you with open arms , shower you with good wishes , and hope you stick around
.So what is the difference.?
The love and interest shown to you by the" witnesses" is conditional , so long as you believe and obey the G.B.,you are their friend ,deviate from that and your toast.
In contrast here at JWN , you can believe what you want to believe , say what you want to say , and nobody will judge you ,we may not always agree with what another says , however nobody here will shun you , the love and interest we show each other is genuine , not" conditional" upon anyone agreeing with everything we do and say.
Sometimes some of us get a bit teste with each other , however over & above all we respect the right for everyone to express their own opinion .
Enjoy your stay here , and I hope hubby feels free to comment on here as well
smiddy
 +11 / -0
OutsiderLookingIn
OutsiderLookingIn 5 days ago

Congratulations, eldress! This is truly wonderful news! I wish you and your husband all the best as you move forward. Time to get busy living :smile:
 +3 / -0
flipper
flipper 5 days ago

Elderess- I'm really happy that your husband and you are on the same page with this. It's amazing how much fear and guilt were indoctrinated into our minds by the WT Society where it made us even fearful of revealing our inner thoughts to our marriage mates ! Isn't that weird ? That should raise red flags to any of us that Jehovah's Witnesses ARE a mind control cult.
I want to cordially and warmly invite you to an informal yearly gathering or picnic we have over a 3 day period each year of ex-JW's - many from this board at South Lake Tahoe , California July 8th - 10th . It's the 9th year in a row we've done it at Camp Richardson and we just hang out and chill by the campfire, BBQ food, share new friendships and battle stories of our exiting the JW organization. We had about 50 people attend last year and we'd love to have you come as well ! And everybody is laid back and very supportive to one another which builds confidence in ourselves and helps rebuild our self esteem that the WT Society tried stealing away from us. Hope you and your husband can make it. We'd enjoy your company.
Hang in there. Say " hi " to your husband for us and if either you or your husband ever want to chat on the phone- just PM me and I'll give you me and my wife's number. I was born and raised in it and like so many others here- I understand what you are going through. My wife and I offer our friendship to you. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
 +9 / -0
vivalavida
vivalavida 5 days ago

Hi elderess, I'm really happy for you and hope that soon you start looking more to the future than to the past.
Enjoy your new life!
 +3 / -0
FeelingFree
FeelingFree 5 days ago

What a fantastic bit of news. I bet you were elated when he also revealed his doubts. Me and my husband left the org together and it's amazing having each others support. It wont be an easy ride but it's so worth it!
xx ff
 +5 / -0
JW GoneBad
JW GoneBad 5 days ago

Happy for you elderess and your hubby.
WT likes to boast that there are now 118,000+ congregations. It's not a stretch or exaggeration to say that on average there could be 10 to 15 rank and file members in each congregation (elders and/or wives, ministerial servants and/or wives, pioneers and publishers) who, like elderess and hubby, have one foot in the Kingdom Hall and one foot out!
 +5 / -0
jhine
jhine 5 days ago
Well said Smiddy .
 Jan
 +2 / -0
disposable hero of hypocrisy
disposable hero of hypocrisy 5 days ago
I got shivers reading that story, thanks for posting. So good to hear. I wish it had gone so smoothly for me.
Best of luck with the rest of your life, it'll be awesome!
 +5 / -0
joey jojo
joey jojo 5 days ago

Hi elderess,
Thanks for sharing your story, I admit I had tears in my eyes as I was reading it and I can only imagine the weight that came off your shoulders as you and your husband poured your hearts out to each other.
May I give a word of warning in regards to your kids? I don't know if you grew up as a JW or came to it in later years but be prepared for your kid(s) to resent you for turning your backs on the religion you raised them in.
From a child's point of view, you usually believe everything your parents tell you and they may view you as hypocritical for raising them as jw's, possibly missing out on a lot of things other kids took for granted, only to see you do the exact opposite of what you taught them, when it suited you to leave.
And then, there's the whole brainwashing - 'OH-MY-GOODNESS-YOU-DONT-BELIEVE-IN-THE-TRUTH-ANYMORE-AND-ARE-BAD' thing.
Thanks again for sharing and all the best for the future.
 +4 / -0
Listener
Listener 5 days ago

Elderess, I am so glad that you have a wonderful relationship with your husband. Your positiveness and forward looking plans are admirable.
Your post moved me to tears as I am sure it has for many others.
 +5 / -0
KateWild
KateWild 5 days ago

Welcome elderess,
Thank you for your story. It was wonderful to read
Kate xx
 +4 / -0
Tornintwo
Tornintwo 5 days ago

What fantastic news, how wonderful to be able to vent to your husband now as well as just on here! Here's to the rest of your lives!! X
 +4 / -0
redpilltwice
redpilltwice 5 days ago

I nonchalantly asked him if we could talk about something. I then very plainly told him I do not believe the overlapping generations teaching is correct and that after considering what the Bible says about not adding to what the scriptures say, it is clear that the overlapping generations teaching is nothing but a ploy to buy time for yet another failed prediction.
Instead of lashing out at me and telling me I am spiritually weak, he put his glasses down, took a deep breath and told me he knows that I no longer believe it and that he has been having serious reservations about it himself!
Such a relief when both husband and wife a) learn and b) accept TTATT!
I have been doing a) for years, but when b) came, it had the effect of taking another red pill and entering another matrix again. I tell you, sometimes it takes several knockdowns to make a man humble. No man made religion and absolute thruths anymore, probably on my way to agnosticism!
The coolest thing was, that after years of researching bits and pieces of TTATT and slowly reaching the point of no return, it was so much easier to explain my doubts to my wife. It took her ONE night of reading the right websites and info to go full awake! Being an elder always pushed me back to my responsibilities and being an example for the flock.and my family, something that fuelled my self esteem within "mother's" rewarding system. God, wish I had the courage to fade just a few years earlier, let's say, around the time of the Candace Conti case in 2012! Now I'm faced with new challenges (a better job for instance) that would have been less difficult to deal with some three, four years ago.
But hey, I still count my blessings, being free of FOG the most important one!
Good luck to both of you and please keep us informed about your intriguing journey!
 +7 / -0

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Topic Summary
only a few days ago i was walking around the house in a mindless wander thinking if i needed to seek professional help.
then i got the courage to seek the comfort of complete strangers on the internet and found a world of support here on this website.
thank you simon and whoever else has made this website possible.



Related Topics
A.proclaimer
1914, leap years, and sticky math situation
by A.proclaimer 2 months ago
Dogpatch
"How Awful This Place Can Be!" Life at Bethel by Keith Casarona
by Dogpatch 5 years ago
What Now?
Our Letter to Our Family
by What Now? 2 months ago
new boy
My Bethel Experience Part 13 "Love and Sex" at Bethel
by new boy 2 months ago
Gorbatchov
2002 radio interview with J.R. Brown, spokesman of WTBTS (The God Show)
by Gorbatchov 2 months ago



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Only a few days ago I was entirely lost and without hope the rug was pulled out from under me
by elderess 6 days ago 84 Replies latest 5 hours ago   jw friends
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disillusioned 2
disillusioned 2 5 days ago

Amazing story. So glad for you. I hope you have success with your children.
I too was terrified of telling my husband. He was not an elder, not even a ms, in fact he misses a lot of meetings and very rarely goes on the ministry. He stopped going for years before he was brought back by a 'kind' elder a couple of years ago. While he was away he decided to go to university and he got a degree. Yet I cant make him see anything I say to him. The last time we argued, the last thing I said to him was 'Overlapping Generations'!!!!!!!!!! He stormed out of the room and we didn't speak for a week!
We avoid the subject now, but he will leave magazines and books lying around and stick a memorial invitation in between the mail! Thankfully my children are all out, but it is so hard living with someone who does not believe the same as you.
 Sending love to anyone else in the same situation as I am. I know there are many.
 +8 / -0
Half banana
Half banana 5 days ago
Just a brilliant post Elderess. How about approaching your children in the same way as you spoke to your husband?
 +3 / -0
done4good
done4good 5 days ago

What a great story!

d4g

 +3 / -0
Anders Andersen
Anders Andersen 5 days ago

@Elderess,
I am so very happy for you and your husband (and a little bit jealous)!
Welcome to the rest of your life!
Make the best of it and have fun!
 +4 / -0
JWdaughter
JWdaughter 5 days ago

I love your straightforward and undramatic way of talking with your husband. Instead of having a lot of drama and subterfuge with the most important person in your life, you were able to be honest. It can't always go so well, but I think that it was a good way to do it. You obviously have a strong relationship that has built a real foundation over the years. I'm glad you are on the same page about all of this. I'm just sitting here grinning for you both!!!
It's too bad your first election will be such a farce. Not one single front runner is anyone I would want to be president-even if I were an apolitical JW they'd all make me break out in hives. [SMH] At least you have birthdays and THANKSGIVING!!!!
 +4 / -0
MarkofCane
MarkofCane 5 days ago

Went on vacation just me and the wife. Snuck into the bathroom to check my emails and peek over here. Wow made my day. My vacation just got a kick start. You know the reason a lot of us come here is for this very reason, no other motive just to help and support those needing unconditional support. You are the lucky one. Figured it all out and as a couple are about to escape together, no better ending will you read on this site. Brovo. Freedom awaits you both I'm still sneaking around but your story gives me hope.
Thanks
 +8 / -0
chicken little
chicken little 5 days ago

So happy for you, your experience is similar to ours. My husband was an elder, very popular speaker and former pioneer/need greater. We were looked up to in the congregation. I could not cope with the cognitive dissonance and depression being in the org caused. I was 46 when I finally took the bull by the horns and told my husband I just could not do it anymore. He asked for a week to make up his mind what he would do, I was very worried as I knew it would be the end of our marriage if he stayed in the Jw's. After a week he resigned as an elder, told them we would not be back and not to try and contact us or ask for any reason why. He walked out after shaking the elders hands and handing in his khall keys. Our marriage and relationship with our children has never been better.
All the best to you, try to take it slow and avoid discussing with anyone your reasons. Just enjoy your freedom and go easy on your children, they will be bewildered and frightened by your decision at first.
Much love Chicken little
 +17 / -0
SAHS
SAHS 4 days ago

You’re gradually getting the pieces to the puzzle. You will begin to see more and more how the Watchtower organization is based on a house of cards supported by nothing. (In a hurricane.) As you continue your research, you will never cease to be amazed at just how much the pieces of the Watchtower’s own little puzzle just simply do not fit together at all.
A significant thing which really opened my eyes was a rather exhaustive yet concise compilation of the various changes and flip-flops of the Watchtower’s teachings called “Spiritual Food at the Proper Time,” which is at a Website hosted by Randall Watters at Free Minds, Inc. Here is the specific link to that multipart document: “http://www.freeminds.org/history/key.htm.” If that doesn’t wake someone up, then nothing will. It’s a very powerful exposé of the incongruous and, well, just plain ridiculous teachings of the Watchtower organization over time. Trust me, it’s very much well worth checking out. And that’s not even including all the new stuff since 2000, such as, supposedly, the very identity of the “faithful and discreet slave” itself! Please, please show that link to your husband. It’s definitely worth printing out, trust me.
Take care, and all the best on your journey to spiritual freedom.
 +3 / -0
Phaedra
Phaedra 4 days ago

Welcome, eldress!
Reading your story and learning how your husband responded to you as you lay side-by-side in your bed sharing the most vulnerable thing you can as a doubting JW nearly made me tear up... As a couple you both will leave together and not be torn apart and shredded emotionally over TTaTT like so many JW marriages have been.
Congratulations on the beginning of the rest of your lives, together!
 +5 / -0
cha ching
cha ching 4 days ago

Thank you for posting & giving more people hope. I also was the wife of an elder, had two great kids that were "in", one was married. We were always researchers, ready to stand up for what was right....BUT, I was so afraid for my kids... I wanted to save them so bad.... That was my nightmare..... Fortunately, all three did awaken... One of my sister's too... I remember how scary of a time that was.
The WT uses emotional blackmail, punishment, fear and all kinds of crap to keep people jailed in their mental priest that they like to call "mother". "She" is a cold hearted, child abusive woman.
You will LOVE living without her, enjoy!!!!!
Thanks for telling your story, it will give more people hope, it feels as if the dam is starting to bulge!!! Congratulations!
Cha Ching
 +4 / -0
OneGenTwoGroups
OneGenTwoGroups 4 days ago

Unicorns are hard to find, finding two of them in the same bed, that's much harder.
You've won the lottery, and looks like you're going to spend your fortune well. Congrats to you both and welcome to the real world!
 +5 / -0
Harvard Illiterate 411
Harvard Illiterate 411 4 days ago

I know this is elderess thread but I feel like I have benefited as well. So many awesome replies and there is so much to learn about the JW history. I just got finished reading Barbara Anderson's short essay and it literally blew me away, reminding me of the unsavory things I knew took place in Bethel but I dismissed as "imperfect men" and minor problems compared to the whole organization. Was I ever wrong about that! Big mistake!
http://freeminds.org/women/barbdiscovery.htm

 +10 / -0
WingCommander
WingCommander 3 days ago
John Aguila, is this YOU, but in female form? Sounds too good to be true. I hope it is true, but the long windedness and flat-out "whooper" writing style seem very similar. C'mon John, I know you're out there somewhere!

 +1 / -3
FayeDunaway
FayeDunaway 3 days ago
I just noticed this post has 97 likes! I've never seen that before!WC, her story is too genuine to be made up, and she doesn't write like John Aquila. It IS a very good story and has brightened the week of many of us. I wrote a PM and she didn't respond, hope she comes back and tells us what's happening with her kids and how they decided to proceed.
 +2 / -0
My Name is of No Consequence
My Name is of No Consequence 2 days ago

@ elderess:
Wow! Both of you are awake. That is fantastic!
 +1 / -0
Diogenesister
Diogenesister 2 days ago
You lovely Lady.... I started getting weepy just reading your post, I want to give you a huge HUG. I think it's wonderful that you have so many positive plans! Please though do take care and take it slow! It will be wonderful if you guys get to spend some wonderful time together as a couple instead of beating yourselves up working for the society. I'm sure you will make many many friends volunteering for charity.... and making a real positive difference. Do whatever you must to keep your family and your good conscience, I feel for you - I've been there as have many. ❤️
 +2 / -0
Heartsafire
Heartsafire 2 days ago

Elderess,
Welcome to the forum! What a moving intro! I am so happy that you have found the real truth and that you and your husband are both together in your journey. My husband did not respond so lovingly to my doubts when I approached him about it. To this day he is hateful and resentful towards me for losing faith in this man made organization (even though I have never officially left, I am merely a fader).
What it comes down to is that those of us who value honesty and truth--real truth--not lies or propaganda--are the ones who are waking up and making our way out. Congratulations again. You are never alone. PM me if you want a friend to talk to at any time.
HAF
 +3 / -0
mamacita29
mamacita29 2 days ago

Wow again! This could be the first thread with over 100 likes!
But I just want to congratulate you and your husband on your awakening. I almost cried reading this and it reminded me of a dear sister in my hall and her inspirational story. So many marriages were ruined because of this cult but eventually thanks to the internet and the freedom of information people can learn the truth about anything.

 +2 / -0
Heartsafire
Heartsafire 2 days ago

Elderess,
Forgive me if it's already been asked and answered, but what info did the email from the sister contain that helped you to wake up? I am trying to help my husband wake up, and maybe the things you saw would help him.
HAF
 +1 / -0
Heartsafire
Heartsafire 2 days ago
Ok, I found your previous post about what was in that email. The whole Geoffrey Jackson lying to the ARC was a biggie for me too. This religion is such a sick cult. It's good to hear that you and your husband know ttatt and are making plans for your future:-).
 +1 / -0

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only a few days ago i was walking around the house in a mindless wander thinking if i needed to seek professional help.
then i got the courage to seek the comfort of complete strangers on the internet and found a world of support here on this website.
thank you simon and whoever else has made this website possible.



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Only a few days ago I was entirely lost and without hope the rug was pulled out from under me
by elderess 6 days ago 84 Replies latest 5 hours ago   jw friends
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johnna colins
johnna colins 2 days ago
This is such fantastic news to wake up have those blinders off both your and your husband's eyes. Enjoy. And don't forget the power of prayer for your children. They can be helped too. May Our our Holy Father and Jesus Christ along with the Holy Spirit be with.
 +3 / -1
elderess
elderess 10 hours ago

My son called last night as he usually does after his CLAM just to see how we are doing. I'm anxious but extremely nervous to hint to him that his father and I have made the decision to leave the organization. I'm not sure how he will react.
We made plans for a big family dinner at the end of the month and I'm considering telling him before. I just don't know how to approach it. I will make a new thread soon about this. Thank you all for your help and encouragement.

 +4 / -0
James Jack
James Jack 8 hours ago
Will be waiting to hear about it!
 +1 / -0
flipper
flipper 5 hours ago
Hang in there Elderess- we are all pulling for you and your husband. We are here as a support to you- remember. Take care and have a beer or glass of wine. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
 
Sabin
Sabin 5 hours ago
Elderess, I will say don't tell them, or don't give them to much info, just say you don't want to talk about it, something happened & you & hubby need some time. The reason I say this is because the longer you are away from the borg the cooler they (kid's) become towards you. Mine hardly phone if they do especially the oldest there is little she has to say to me, however at least for the mo I can have contact & talk about past things we did as a family, reminders if you like that are positive & tell them that I love them. I'm just bidding time I know, but maybe something will stay with them.At the end of the day you have to do what is best for you.
 

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Topic Summary
only a few days ago i was walking around the house in a mindless wander thinking if i needed to seek professional help.
then i got the courage to seek the comfort of complete strangers on the internet and found a world of support here on this website.
thank you simon and whoever else has made this website possible.



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by Gorbatchov 2 months ago



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/ Pro Gun Florida mom shot by 4 year old son
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Pro Gun Florida mom shot by 4 year old son
by Witness 007 3 hours ago 7 Replies latest 26 minutes ago   jw experiences
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Witness 007
Witness 007 3 hours ago
Loaded gun under her car seat was picked up off the floor and the kid shot her in the back...the day before on Facebook she boasted about his shooting skills. What is wrong with this picture?
 +3 / -0
ShirleyW
ShirleyW 2 hours ago

Boasted about a four year old's shooting skills the day before, well there ya' go.
He certainly showed her how skilled he was.
 +4 / -0
Simon
Simon 2 hours ago

People will only be safe when both mothers and children are fully armed. If we try and remove guns from people then more people will be shot. The only way to have less shooting is to have more guns, preferably semi-automatic assault rifles.
In other news, I just joined the NRA. The lobotomy went perfectly well.
I also now want to vote for Donald Trump.
 +10 / -1
NewYork44M
NewYork44M 2 hours ago
This is good news for Rubio, one less vote for Trump.
 +1 / -1
GrreatTeacher
GrreatTeacher 2 hours ago

Well, she never taught him lesson #1-never point a gun at a person.
She didn't bother to lock her gun and store the ammo separately (That's a big deal in my state during vehicular transport!)
She didn't bother to keep her gun out of the reach of her son.
And, she ensured that her negligence left her son motherless.
I wonder if she put her kid in a safety seat if he was able to find the gun under the seat. If he was buckled in, then he wouldn't have been able to reach under the seat.
Yeah, she made a lot of bad choices and, unfortunately, paid some pretty serious consequences for them.
 +3 / -0
cappytan
cappytan 2 hours ago
Sounds like the result of being irresponsible.
 +2 / -0
OrphanCrow
OrphanCrow 2 hours ago

What a horrible experience for that little boy. Now he has to live with that for the rest of his life.
What is wrong with this picture? The mother had an IQ of 32. Maybe. Stupid fucking woman. Stupid stupid stupid. Dumber than a bag of nails.
 +6 / -0
Sugar Shane
Sugar Shane 26 minutes ago

There's our 'well regulated militia.' Fucking idiotic bitch. With freedom comes responsibility!
Though I don't condider myself a 'gun-nut.' I do own a 9mm Beretta, a shotgun, and a deer rifle. I secure these pieces with the same level of vigilance that was instilled in me by Drill Sgt. Davis way back in the day at Ft. Jackson. So much as leave my M-16 unattended for a second, and I'm getting 'smoked' by the DS (in front of the whole platoon) and knocking out multiple pushups in the S. Carolina heat. That, and his war stories about VC infiltration during 'Nam, left an impression on me. Of course, I needed that level of discipline, because I was young & dumb!
Grown-ass adults with kids should just fucking know better.
 +0 / -2

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The March JW broadcast, presented by paedophile enabler Geoffery Jackson
by jambon1 a day ago 11 Replies latest 12 hours ago   jw friends
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jambon1
jambon1 a day ago

All warm and fluffy this month after the utterly laughable 'bread' broadcast.
I'll always be grateful to the Australian royal commission for allowing us to see this duplicitous, lying, creep, shown up as a snivelling, suck up, asshole, taken completely out of his self appointed authoritarian comfort zone.
Anyway, a not too interesting broadcast I have to say.
 +6 / -0
sir82
sir82 a day ago

No more wheedles for more, more, more money?
Surprising. Oh well, I'm sure they'll just double up their supplications next month.

 +2 / -0
punkofnice
punkofnice 21 hours ago

I thought he'd been put into the closet after the ARC.
Shameless piece of filthy watchtower corporation pope.
 +5 / -0
fastJehu
fastJehu 18 hours ago

Wow, a new cooking show - this time: how to bake bread for the "last supper".
After the garlic bread show in february - another bread show.
Pinch me - is this reality????
 +3 / -0
crazy_flickering_light
crazy_flickering_light 18 hours ago
I'm waiting for the how-to for making good wine.
 +2 / -0
Room 215
Room 215 18 hours ago

In fact, according to an interesting article in the Italian ex-jw website Geova.org, the scriptures suggest that the bread passed around at the last supper was not the unleavened matzoh of the Jewish Passover (azuma in Greek) but rather the common everyday generic leavened loaf (arton) . This is true in all three Gospel references to the Last Supper of Matthew 26:26, Mark 14:22 and Luke 22:19. It's the same word employed in Matthew 4:4 when Satan urged Jesus to turn stones into bread (arton) and Matt. 7:9 when God would never give a child asking for bread a stone. Moreover there's no reference to the use of wine, in the Exodus Passover.



 +2 / -0
wannaexit
wannaexit 17 hours ago

So now they want the sisters to make the bread???? Store bought isn't good enough??
 +1 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 17 hours ago
It's becoming more and more unbelievable and tragic.....
 +2 / -0
Calebs Airplane
Calebs Airplane 16 hours ago

In next month's JW Bread-Cast:
"The 10-second rule re-examined"
David Splane will reveal why briefly perusing certain web sites -which may appear completely inoffensive- can actually damage your spiritual health... Much like observing the "10-second rule" when bread falls on the floor. You can still become ill if you pick up the fallen bread in less than 10 seconds if it falls on a contaminated floor...
Oh f~€K, I just gave them an idea... Let's see how long it takes for these fools to use this...
 +3 / -0
freddo
freddo 13 hours ago

And of course there will be the regular bulletin on jwbreadcasting:
Give us your dough!
Groan!
 +4 / -0
diana netherton
diana netherton 12 hours ago
is there a link?
 
Dagney
Dagney 12 hours ago

Uh boy. I watched about 10 minutes. I feel like if this was broadcast in a KH the whole place would be snoozing in a matter of minutes.
I wonder how these videos are really received by the congregations. My brother, an elder/COBE, raves about them. But I think he's trying to convince me...or possibly himself...I'll never really know.
 

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More proof the Bible is bunk.
by Crazyguy 5 days ago 5 Replies latest 5 days ago   watchtower bible
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Crazyguy
Crazyguy 5 days ago
We all know about the story of the tower of Babel where by God confused the languages to make men spread out and stop building the tower. Well when one studies the languages of the near east he will find that all the languages we're from one common language akkadian. All semedic and even Sanskrit can be traced back to akkadian. The Hittites which spoke more of a European style language still wrote and could understand Akkadian. The evolution of the languages show just that, languages that evolved over time, not a sudden we're speaking English and now Chinese like the Bible would have you believe. This area of the world wrote in Akkadian all the way up until the Greek conquest by Alexander. If you do not want to believe in the evolution of the human species then consider the evolution of language.
 +7 / -0
freemindfade
freemindfade 5 days ago
And these are the things that woke me the hell up way back when
 
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 5 days ago

Of course, the bible is just a observational reference from one ancient civilization's structured mythological beliefs.
Unfortunately religionists particularity the ones trying to cultivate their own power and reverence are usually not inspired to be intellectually honest about why these scribed writings were done so toward their original expressive intent.

All religious beliefs are usually composed of appealing bullshit, which effects people's emotions, thoughts and fears, that's what makes and creates their own appealing stature of believably .

 
oppostate
oppostate 5 days ago

All semedic and even Sanskrit can be traced back to akkadian.
Do yourself a favor and go visit Wikipedia or something of the sort.
Your statement is totally wrong. Factually, it sounds ignorant.
Hamito-Semitic is a separate language family tree.
Sanskrit is Indo-European, like Latin and Greek.
On one hand you have your branching language trees for the great families of languages and paleo-linguists can make assumptions as to what the common parent language may have looked like (or sounded like, of course). Then you have language isolates which show no affinity to any other known language.
If you're going to attempt to debunk the Tower of Bable account you might do well to at least be informed of the facts that modern experts in linguistics have published.



 
Hadriel
Hadriel 5 days ago

Total side point and a piece of advice as I have no dog in this fight at the moment but telling someone to go visit Wikipedia is pretty much the worst thing you can do.
Is it factual...sometimes but it is wrong a lot as well. You have to take it with a grain of salt.
I've corrected things myself and then the same idiots come through and change it back to the false information over and over.
Bottom line it can't unequivocally trusted. Perhaps an accredited source from a university study in linguistics would be better.
 +1 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 5 days ago
Oppostate, the information I have read states that Sanskrit is related to Akkadian, maybe it is maybe not, the Hittite language is not which I stated but they did write in Akkadian. Wasn't the point of the story to get people to not be able to cummunicate so they would leave. Side piont I know the story is really a rip off a a story about the God enki changing the language of one city in ancient Sumeria. But again study the languages of the Levant and you'll see no sudden dramatic change.
 

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JW's in Ukraine
by Psalm1611 6 days ago 12 Replies latest 3 days ago   watchtower bible
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Psalm1611
Psalm1611 6 days ago

Need help finding JW material written after 1986

Good day! I am reaching out for help from those of you that know your material better than I, an outsider. I am a Baptist missionary in Ukraine for 5 years now. One block away from where I live is a Kingdom Hall which boasts 800+ members, and therefore I am constantly in contact with JWs. To deal with them, I consult material from David Reed, Ron Rhodes, and Frederick Franz's 2 books. These are all excellent books which all do a fantastic job of categorizing the mistake-ridden prophecies and history of the JW organization.
HOWEVER, all of those almost do me no good here at all because of the great language barrier. Almost nobody here could verify anything that the Organization has done if it was published before 1986. I can't show anybody the wording of the prophecies leading up to 1914, or 1915, 1918, 1925, 1975 because they don't have it in their language. The Organization has only translated into Russian material starting in 1986, and so anything before that date is immediately cast under the darkness of doubt; who would take the word of a heretic over the word of the WTBTS?
I am searching for anything written since 1986 that I can use to show the true character of the WTBTS. Any helpers? Thank you in advance.

 
slimboyfat
slimboyfat 6 days ago
I've seen old books in Russian (maybe Ukrainian too) on eBay if that is any use. The Harp of God for example, which promoted the 1925 date. Worth keeping an eye on.
 +1 / -0
Mephis
Mephis 6 days ago
http://www.jwfacts.com/ has a lot of information which covers the whole history. Obviously in English, and whether what it quotes is also available in Russian is another matter altogether.
 +2 / -0
slimboyfat
slimboyfat 6 days ago

This page indicates that many early books are available in Russian, although the links don't work.
http://www.bibleapologet.narod.ru/wt/index.html
Certainly not anti-JW, but a major academic study of JWs in the Soviet Union was published recently that may be of interest.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dissent-Margins-Jehovahs-Witnesses-Communism/dp/0199945535/

 +1 / -0
Psalm1611
Psalm1611 6 days ago

wow, I didn't expect answers so fast. Thank you.
+Mephis I also use http:www.jwfacts.com; it's a great resource. I'm making my way through little by little: for example: w00 1/15 says "'Six Convincing Lines of Evidence' that we are in the Last Days. …
Sixth, the number of genuine anointed disciples of Christ is dwindling,"
...and yet since then, the evidence clearly shows an increase in the anointed.

Another headache is trying to match up the articles to each other. The published date in USA is sometimes different from the published date here in Ukraine. We've had people straight up tell us we're lying about the source, in part because of that.

 +1 / -0
Psalm1611
Psalm1611 6 days ago
+slimboyfat thanks for the reference, I'll look through and see what I can find.

 
fulltimestudent
fulltimestudent 5 days ago


Psalm1611 :  " Need help finding JW material written after 1986
Good day! I am reaching out for help from those of you that know your material better than I, an outsider. I am a Baptist missionary in Ukraine for 5 years now. ... I am constantly in contact with JWs. To deal with them, ..."
Sure Psalms1611, you'll find some of the material you're looking to find. You'll also find some material demonstrating that the whole Judeao-Christian concept is in error. Study it carefully, through it you may be freed to be yourself and not waste your life as Jesus did.
 
redvip2000
redvip2000 5 days ago

Gotta love when deluded individuals look down at others who simply have a different form of delusion.
 +1 / -0
Melchisedek
Melchisedek 4 days ago

http://scripturestudy.net - books and brochures Russel`shttp://www.thewt.org - Old books, brochures Rutherford`s (Creation, The Harp of God, Enemies, Children, Salvation, Religion, Jehovah, Deliverance...)
http://vestnic-tarstva.ru - here "Let God bit True" and others
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/74c4b07cfe86/%D0%98%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0%2C%20%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%B4%D1%83%D1%89%D0%B0%D1%8F%20%D0%BA%20%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B9%20%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%B8.pdf - "The truth that leads to eternal life"
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/6b1ae6eaec74/1920-%D0%9C%D1%96%D0%BB%D1%96%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%96_%D0%B7_%D0%BB%D1%8E%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%B9%2C_%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80_%D0%B6%D0%B8%D1%8E%D1%87%D0%B8%D1%85%2C_%D0%BD%D1%96%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8_%D0%BD%D0%B5_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%80%D1%83%D1%82%D1%8C!.pdf - Millions Now Living will never die (Ukrainian)
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/3Csg/QHoPEC4Tk - Dwelling Together in Unity (for Bethel)
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/6nhJ/4GS5TfNjH - Shephert the Flock of God
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/dda8f8b3c568/%D0%91%D0%B8%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%B8%20%D0%9E%D0%A1%D0%91%20%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5 - Watchtower Library all
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/22a68fa8fbd8/%D0%9D%D0%B5%D0%BE%D1%84%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5%20%D0%B1%D0%B8%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%B8 - Informal library
 +1 / -0
smiddy
smiddy 4 days ago

Welcome Psalm1611, from Australia
I hope you have success in your mission to help J.W.`s free themselves from the Borg.
In your opening post I think you meant to say Ray Franz`s two books., Fred Franz`s nephew ,minor detail.
By all means keep us updated on how you are progressing in your mission , I`m sure many of us here would like to know how you are doing.
I`m sorry that I cant be instrumental in your quest , but I`m sure many here will be able to help you.
Take care ,buddy
smiddy
 +1 / -0
Psalm1611
Psalm1611 4 days ago

+Smiddy Yes, I did mean to say Raymond Franz's two books. I constantly get those men two mixed up.
I have conversations with JWs all the time, but I'm just dying to actually see one walk away from the Organization. I've met a couple that don't attend the KH meetings anymore, but that's more because of their inability to meet the impossibly high standard of works salvation set by the KH, and so they stopped attending.

 
Psalm1611
Psalm1611 4 days ago

+Melchisedek Большое спасибо. Эти веб-страницы будут очень полезны
 +1 / -0
Melchisedek
Melchisedek 3 days ago
here Watchtower Library 2015 russian - https://yadi.sk/d/jgY0-CCFpwxU4

 +1 / -0

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New June Awake with Misleading Statements about Evidence for god
by ttdtt 6 days ago 23 Replies latest 5 days ago   watchtower bible
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ttdtt
ttdtt 6 days ago

The article (Faith) is all about why you should have solid evidence based reasons for belief in god.
It's not good enough to believe in god just because you were raised to believe in god.
(from the article)

But God wants those who worship him to have genuine confidence in his existence and in his love.
Then it goes on to tell us how we can get that genuine confidence that there is a god.
(from the article)

Studying the Bible will help you to find solid answers to important questions, including:

You may notice that there is a link to articles on 1: Who is God 2: Does god care 3: God's purpose.
What ISN'T there is a link to the ACTUAL QUESTION THE ARTICLE IS SUPPOSED TO HELP WITH.
What evidence is there of his (god's) existence?
Now for someone looking to BUILD FAITH in a god, wouldn't that be the 1st priority to learn about? For surely why would someone care about "his purpose" or if a "cares about me" if he has not established clearly that there really is a god?
The real reason for this omission is that the WT has never (nor has anyone else) provided real proof that he, she, it exists.
Proof is not, well the scriptures say he exists, it's not - well we live in an unlikely universe, it's not that there are 5000 kinds of apples (wondering if anyone gets that reference), it's not that man is doing a bad job therefore there must be a god who will step in, it's not I don't understand evolution so there must be a god.
Proof is proof, not a desire to want something to be real.
I don't believe that the earth is a sphere, it is. I don't believe that there is gravity, it is. I don't believe that 2 + 2 = 4, it is!
All the above if challenged can be proven easily all the time. It's not like Holy Spirit that only works when it works.
Once again, the WT uses the old shell game tactics in their literature.
Misdirection is their best play.
The article "Faith - what does the bible say" can be found at the link below.
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/awake-no3-2016-june/faith-what-does-bible-say/
 +8 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 6 days ago
These deceptions continue to drive me mad.
 +3 / -0
OneEyedJoe
OneEyedJoe 6 days ago
Good catch about the bait and switch. It's crazy what they get away with.
Also, I did get the apple reference :smile:
 +3 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 6 days ago

The WTS writers quite often assert loaded questions into their articles making or establishing a presupposition of guilt many times.

Loaded question
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A loaded question or complex question fallacy is a question that contains a controversial or unjustified assumption (e.g., a presumption of guilt).[1]
Aside from being an informal fallacy depending on usage, such questions may be used as a rhetorical tool: the question attempts to limit direct replies to be those that serve the questioner's agenda.[2] The traditional example is the question "Have you stopped beating your wife?" Whether the respondent answers yes or no, they will admit to having a wife and having beaten her at some time in the past. Thus, these facts are presupposed by the question, and in this case an entrapment, because it narrows the respondent to a single answer, and the fallacy of many questions has been committed.[2] The fallacy relies upon context for its effect: the fact that a question presupposes something does not in itself make the question fallacious. Only when some of these presuppositions are not necessarily agreed to by the person who is asked the question does the argument containing them become fallacious.[2] Hence the same question may be loaded in one context, but not in the other. For example, the previous question would not be loaded if it was asked during a trial in which the defendant has already admitted to beating his wife.[2]
This fallacy should be distinguished from that of begging the question (not to be confused with raising the question),[3] which offers a premise whose plausibility depends on the truth of the proposition asked about, and which is often an implicit restatement of the proposition.[4]
 +1 / -0
theliberator
theliberator 6 days ago
I strongly believe in God. However, I have always felt gypped when it came to a 2 or 3 page articles about God's existence or the creation. Now it angers me, due to the fact that people read that stupid Awake! and the organization uses it to tell people that they don't need to dig deeper. "Look how wonderful we are. We provide a well rounded education both spiritually and secularly." Bull crap! I am not 2 years old. I will choose what I want to read and reflect on deeper proof for the existence of God.
 +6 / -0
Divergent
Divergent 6 days ago

This is how I feel about God:



If God exists, would he be so narrow-minded to kill me along with BILLIONS of good people just because we are not part of his religion? It is NOT that I do not want to believe in God. In fact, I welcome God to accept this challenge of mine: to make me a believer, to convince me without a doubt, if JW's or any other religion really have the truth. If God does not do that, then it's not my fault that I don't believe. After all, he has the power to convince me and he knows EXACTLY what he takes to convince me. If he does not convince me despite me requesting him to do so, then he has NO RIGHT to destroy me because it is not me who does not want to believe but rather it is he who has failed by choosing not to help me believe!



This is why I do not fear the future. If God doesn't exist, then I have nothing to lose by not following any religion. On the other hand, if God exists, then he does NOT have the right to destroy me if he does not convince me. After all, I have asked him to and he knows exactly what it takes!

 +4 / -0
theliberator
theliberator 6 days ago

"Then certain of the scribes and Pharisees answered, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from you." But he answered them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, but no sign will be given it but the sign of Jonah the prophet. - Matthew: 12. 38, 39
Luke: 23: 8,9 - Now when Herod saw Jesus, he was exceedingly glad, for he had wanted to see him for a long time, because he had heard many things about him. He hoped to see some miracle done by him. He questioned him with many words, but he gave no answers.
Matthew: 27: 42 - "He saved others, but he can't save himself. If he is the King of Israel, let him come down from the cross now, and we will believe in him."
Psalm: 106:21,22: "They forgot God, their Savior, who had done great things in Egypt, Wondrous works in the land of Ham, and awesome things by the Red Sea."

 +1 / -1
punkofnice
punkofnice 6 days ago

What ISN'T there is a link to the ACTUAL QUESTION THE ARTICLE IS SUPPOSED TO HELP WITH.
What evidence is there of his (god's) existence?
Probably because there is no evidence...?
 +3 / -0
Witness My Fury
Witness My Fury 6 days ago

Theliberator clearly needs liberating.
 +3 / -2
ttdtt
ttdtt 6 days ago

Yes punkofnic!
And kodos for you OneEyedJoe! Guess you had a CO visit recently?
 +1 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 6 days ago

Typical straw man argument techniques used by the writers....
 
ttdtt
ttdtt 6 days ago

stuckinarut2 To clarify, used by writers who can't prove their argument with any real evidence, and so must resort to ingenuine ways to get their point across.
I still have a hard time understanding how the person can write that and not have some conflict about it?
I remember going nuts when I was writing a talk for the hall or a convention and stuff did not add up. I usually ended up ditching that point and making one I had some basis for.
 +2 / -0
OneEyedJoe
OneEyedJoe 6 days ago

And kodos for you OneEyedJoe! Guess you had a CO visit recently?

Nah, it just always stuck out as stupid that they would cite how pleasing variety is as proof of god (or his love, as the case may be) when variety is also direct evidence that the biblical flood account is inaccurate.
That and a lot of species of apples are really grainy and not very good. The variety is equal proof of a loving god as it is proof of an asshole god that tries to trick us by making some of the apples good and some of them gross.
 +3 / -0
Heaven
Heaven 6 days ago
Wanting something to be true doesn't mean that it is.

 +3 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 6 days ago

The WTS has always purposed that to get a true understand of god and of accurate bible interpretation, that one has to learn and be taught "only" by them and them alone.
What this really comes down to it is a self promoting marketing scam, for people to read their literature and and to eventually become a public sales representative in distributing their literature.
Realistically you could say Jehovah's Witnesses are actually dedicated avowed employees for the Watchtower Corporation.

 +2 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 5 days ago

How about the Chinese JW "college professor" they keep putting in the magazines about evolution. Don't the readers think he looks familiar? He would really have an unbiased opinion on the matter.
Next article - "The pope believes in the trinity" news at 11
 
Satan
Satan 5 days ago

That's because they think the reason people don't believe in god is because they "are confused and haven't met Jehovah." or "See all the bad stuff happening and think there is no god."
They think they are soooo smart and that those dumb scientists haven't figured out that evolution is false because a bomb in an junkyard won't make an airplane so monkeys can't fly therefore big bang is just a theory.
 
Satan
Satan 5 days ago

reply to ttdtt
Because chinese all look the same so people won't notice, that's why they keep putting it in every awake mag.
 
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 5 days ago
Glad it's in the awake less chance anyone will read it.
 
xjwsrock
xjwsrock 5 days ago

God is real because when I pray 50% of the time the thing I pray for comes true. The other 50% of the time the country song of Garth Brooks comes true and I thank God for unanswered prayers.
Therefore God exists.
Amen.


 

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New June Awake with Misleading Statements about Evidence for god
by ttdtt 6 days ago 23 Replies latest 5 days ago   watchtower bible
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slimboyfat
slimboyfat 5 days ago

Proof is proof, not a desire to want something to be real.
I don't believe that the earth is a sphere, it is. I don't believe that there is gravity, it is.
That's certainly one way of looking at it!
 
Lieu
Lieu 5 days ago
Cute, half a verse .... again. And wt poo does 2 Tim 3:16 have to do with anything if you haven't given a semblance of reasoning for proof of existence yet?
 
Half banana
Half banana 5 days ago

Jehovah's Witnesses are a dim-witted cult. They are brought up to believe that quoting the scriptures is the finest thing a person can do and all you need to do.
They wouldn't know a fact if it hit them in the face. To draw conclusions from evidence (such as the geological record to demonstrate evolution for example) would overstretch the thinking ability of most JWs.
 
Vidiot
Vidiot 5 days ago


OneEyedJoe - "Good catch about the bait and switch."
Once again, for the newbies, lurkers, and trolls...
x
...if you have to cheat to defend your beliefs, your beliefs don't deserve to be defended.
 

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Topic Summary
the article (faith) is all about why you should have solid evidence based reasons for belief in god.
it's not good enough to believe in god just because you were raised to believe in god.. (from the article).
but god wants those who worship him to have genuine confidence in his existence and in his love.. then it goes on to tell us how we can get that genuine confidence that there is a god.



Related Topics
blondie
Blondie's Highlights from 11-15-2015 WT (FAITH)
by blondie 4 months ago
TTWSYF
What's up with the HEBREWS translation?
by TTWSYF 3 months ago
Wonderment
How credible are NWT critiques? A look at Allin's evaluation of Jn 8:58.
by Wonderment a month ago
Wonderment
How credible are NWT's critiques?: Allin and John 8:58. (2)
by Wonderment a month ago
Wonderment
John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2
by Wonderment 3 months ago



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Jehovah's Witnesses: A Clear Decline
by Hadriel 9 days ago 43 Replies latest 8 days ago   watchtower bible
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Hadriel
Hadriel 9 days ago

It is rather clear that the internet is to put it mildly, wrecking the world of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society. If not for foreign language I doubt there would be much growth at all.
Digital trends and analytics are very real. Don't think they don't mean something. I live this analytics world I assure you to some degree you can take it to the bank.
Add to the fact that Christianity isn't even enjoying the fastest growth among religions. Islam will soon overtake Christianity as a whole. Meaning JW growth really isn't in the equation.
So much for expansion and growth as makers of the true religion and God's support.



Report from the Mirror
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/islam-fastest-growing-religion-overtake-6986333

 +4 / -0
Simon
Simon 9 days ago

Sadly though, they are transferring their attention to the domain name instead - jw.org
Kind of laughable that they promote a domain name more than the supposedly "god given name" that they are supposed to be promoting !
 +8 / -1
theliberator
theliberator 9 days ago
I believe they truly will decline and it will be apparent, not only to us, but to outsiders as well. We need to remember, that although the internet has been available for sometime, mobile internet has not. Most in the past would never seek a desk pc and start researching the Watchtower unless they were on a mission. Today, we pull out our phones on a whim. In the past, the Watchtower was always that religion that claimed to be Christian, but was somewhat shrouded in mystery. "Maybe we have misunderstood them." "Maybe I should check out that Kingdom Hall to find out what they are all about." Or, "Maybe I can have a study and ask questions." Those days are over. The smartphone is what is killing them. The mystery that surrounds them is over. It was the smartphone that took me out and took me out fast. The ability to read hours at a time without family knowing, was the end for me. And it will be the end for most escapees.
 +14 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon 9 days ago
They will eventually drop JW and be known as Christians..
 +3 / -0
steve2
steve2 9 days ago

Hadriel please could you explain your impresive looking graph on the JWs. What exactly is it measuring (it says "Interest over time" - but as measured by what?) and where is the graph sourced from?
I followed the link but, allowing for the possibility I looked in the wrong section, where does the link refer to JWs?
Thanks in anticipation for your answer.
 +1 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 9 days ago

" Good morning we are representatives of JWorg. and we are calling in your neighborhood with a important message regarding JWorg. , do you have a minute of your time so we can explain what we have ? "

 +5 / -0
20yearfader
20yearfader 9 days ago
if his chest had been a cannon he would shoot his heart at jworg please put up a graph showing when this cult will die
 
ttdtt
ttdtt 9 days ago
Where did that chart come from?
 
TTWSYF
TTWSYF 9 days ago

Hadriel, I HOPE YOU'RE RIGHT! True enough that these days anyone can search anything almost instantly so it's easy to see that growth will slow in western civilizations. My hope is that this will help people who are still in[doctrinated]
I look forward to the day that my family members wake up. I think that the WTS strength lies more in their repetition of doctrine over proof that the doctrine is incorrect.
 +2 / -0
bradford
bradford 9 days ago
There is a link in the post to the mirror which leads to the pew research site which leads to a data explorer tool on a global religion site. On a mobile device here so couldn't play with the site too much but it seems legitimate.
 
Simon
Simon 9 days ago

re: the charts, it's Google Trends - it's a measure of Google searches over time
https://www.google.com/trends/

 +1 / -0
Hadriel
Hadriel 9 days ago
what @simon said.
 +1 / -0
Hadriel
Hadriel 9 days ago

The growth of Islam pretty much can't be denied on any level. It is flat crushing Christianity. Now I don't know exactly what that means necessarily but those are the facts.
My only question would be why does Jehovah's spirit directed organization not enjoy the same growth. This is important due to how often the organization wields it as if to say see we're legit.
Apparently God likes Islam better than?
So this isn't about whether you believe in this faith or that, more about if touting growth as validity of backing then why is this happening?
As to the chart It is just a Trends chart. The thing about these things is they are for real in that MA types (mergers & acquisitions guys) use this sort of data religiously (pun intended) to detect whether there are growth possibilities in a given sector.
In various searches (the org post just on the main words "jehovah's witnesses") it is clear there is a decline among the masses when searching on this topic.
There just isn't the same interest as before. So searches like the above and "what do JW's believe" have all dropped off a bit.
However search terms/keywords related to JW's and child abuse have spiked.
The point to this exercises is that it isn't the end all be all but there is little doubt in my mind that the foothold has slipped due to the amount of information now reaching active witnesses, those studying or those interested.
Bottom line the Tower has buckets of money and they're streamlining. They have staying power from that respect but I can see a time where they're a shell of what they once were much like Scientology has become.
Just my .02 do what you will with it.
 +2 / -0
Beth Sarim
Beth Sarim 9 days ago
From my understanding JW's have one of the highest if not the highest rate of turnover in Religion.
 +2 / -0
Sabin
Sabin 9 days ago
Hadriel, when the numbers go up it is Jah's holy spirit making it grow, when the numbers go down it's Jah's holy spirit clearing out the crap & refining the cong. They always got a bloody answer. They told to many porky pies & they are being caught out.
 +5 / -0
Hadriel
Hadriel 9 days ago
You are so right @Sabin.
 +1 / -0
Nathan Natas
Nathan Natas 9 days ago

Have you ever heard of the Shakers; the Amish; the Mennonites? Just a few examples of extinct religions that aren't extinct.
 +2 / -0
berrygerry
berrygerry 9 days ago


Bottom line the Tower has buckets of money and they're streamlining. They have staying power from that respect but I can see a time where they're a shell of what they once were much like Scientology has become.
This could be a sticky for the summation of the Borg.
There is a definite feel of, if not desperation, then urgency, in their cutbacks of Branches, Bethelites, Missionaries, Specials, older CO's, DO's, as well as the scraping of every congos' last nickel, insane Circuit Assembly expenses, right-sizing of KH's, video-begging, scrapping of recent releases, and 16-page bi-monthly rags.
The real numbers guys inside the Borg know what is happening, and it is not pretty.

 +3 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon 9 days ago

Yes they may not be extinct but I would love to see these numbers.
Shakers-Higest numbers for this group 6000, declined as of 2011, there were only three known
Shakers communities in America, several former communities have become museums.
Amish--Total population 300000
Mennonites--2 million world wide and dropping.
I see soon JW's numbers in the US dropping dramatically and that would be great.
 +1 / -0
JW GoneBad
JW GoneBad 9 days ago

berrygerry: The real numbers guys inside the Borg know what is happening, and it is not pretty.
It's one thing for the world wide web to be a pain in the ass for the WTBTS. It's another thing for the Jehovah's Witnesses to cheapen and scale down God's name to the initials JW. Still another thing for truancy at meetings to be at 50% to 60%. And even worse is to see a continual rise of marital problems to the point of separation and divorce among their ranks! And far worse are the well deserved scandals of pedophilia and other forms of rank and file abuse!
So yes, clearly there are too numerous irreversible factors that are definitely causing a rapid decay among Jehovahs Witnesses!
May God bless this non-stop and chronic decline!
 +8 / -0

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Jehovah's Witnesses: A Clear Decline
by Hadriel 9 days ago 43 Replies latest 8 days ago   watchtower bible
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smiddy
smiddy 9 days ago

The trend of die-hard J.W.`s to divorce a former believing mate could be having a backlash on the religion , rather than pointing to it as the" true religion", it`s doing quite the opposite , the public are seeing it for what it truly is a wrecker of marriages .
smiddy
 +4 / -0
Hadriel
Hadriel 9 days ago
It absolutely does break up families.
 +4 / -0
jookbeard
jookbeard 9 days ago
its interesting in the coming decades to see how far Islam will have grown, there is no doubt it is the fastest growing belief system on the planet but will there be new secular Islamic country? I dont see it because although Christianity is suffering in regards to making brand new converts atheism is growing at a vast rate as well, also I've noticed mainly in Europe is that there seems to be very few from the indigenous countries populations converting to Islam, in the circle of people I've ever known in my entire life I knew one girl that converted and that was because she met a Muslim man also the Muslim populations see's people leave the faith as well, does anyone see any vast change in this scenario?
 
steve2
steve2 9 days ago
Thanks Simon and Hadriel for explaining the source of the graph in the OP.
 
Hadriel
Hadriel 9 days ago

no prob. Trends is really easy to use. There are also many sites you can use ti investigate keyword searches to forecast things and so on. It can be used also for this purpose so as to gauge public interests.
take it with a grain of salt though. In no way saying this means this or that. It does point out. that the topic is less noteworthy over the past handful of years. That much is clear.
 
talesin
talesin 9 days ago

Yes, I was going to ask about the graph, too, but someone (Steve2) already had. Thank you both.
 
trevor
trevor 9 days ago

They will eventually drop JW and be known as Christians. James Mixon



A while ago I said that a smart move would be to become Christian Witnesses. They now refer to themselves as Jehovah's Christian Witnesses. All they need to do now is drop Jehovah - perhaps literally!
 Flag Dislike Like

 +1 / -0
done4good
done4good 9 days ago

Why is it every time this is discussed, people take either extreme? It is always either "the religion is going to be gone in 10 years, (or less)", or someone points out how some fringe group like the Amish or Christadelphians still exists, (the latter does not even spell check), so the WT will be around in current form forever. Neither extreme is correct.
The facts:
1. The religion has undergone major changes in the last 10 years in response to a changing society around them, (unless of course you subscribe to Ayn Rand's theory that society does not exist. Then I can't help you...).
2. All of the changes have been reactionary or tactical in nature, not strategic. Tactics eventually fail, given enough time. This is probabilistic in nature. A long-term strategy would need to be developed for their long-term existence, and this the WT does not have. Authoritarian organizations rarely do, and eventually die out because of it, as social evolution takes place.

3. Moore's law, (including all technology that it has promoted, internet, smartphones, etc.), is having a significant effect on society in general, accelerating the pace of that evolution, and all organizations, groups, or individuals that resist the changes brought by it appear more ridiculous all the time, (just look at the republican party today). The intelligent and otherwise sane ones slowly depart, causing a "brain drain", leaving only the crazies. This further drives out the remaining sane ones, which creates a positive feedback loop that leads to further instability.
On the other hand:

4. Religions die hard, so nothing immediate is likely to befall the WT.
5. Religious beliefs are also difficult to overcome on a personal level, if one has much invested in them. By nature, authoritarian groups require significant investment of personal resources, so this happens almost by default with a religion such as the JW.
I have said this many times on this forum recently that a tipping point has likely been reached where it has at least become highly unlikely, if not impossible for any non-born in/raised in person to become a JW. The days of making intelligent, educated converts is over. This is a good indicator that the organization is in a long-term demise. That demise will take time, probably several decades. They will eventually wither away, but likely exist in some form as the fringe groups mentioned.
d4g

 +4 / -0
Heaven
Heaven 9 days ago


Hadriel said: It absolutely does break up families.
I can attest to that. But then, they can brag they are following Jesus' example in the Bible at:
Matthew 10:35: For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. - NIV

 
steve2
steve2 9 days ago

Done4good, many threads over the years have echoed your views, so you are not uniquely arguing for a more considered view of the organiztion's future. In fact, I have often said the organization's msin growth is nowadsys not from door-knocking but born-ins.
I agree there at times is a preponderance of those who confidently predict jw organization will spectacularly decline within years, whilst others (fewer) argue it will be a sizably growing organization for decades more. The emergjng actuality is somewhere in between. 2015 saw the smallest growth in publishers worldwide for literally decades.
 
Hadriel
Hadriel 9 days ago

Rather smartly the tower has turned its focus to third world countries and the foreign lang effort. These areas are far less likely to have heard of all the chicanery unlike the modern world and its free flowing information.
I do believe at least in the U.S. and U.K. for example that the converts are slowing drastically. Unless born in the chances of conversion are minimal. Hence also why the push for baptism is so emphatic. Get them in early or they won't stay in.
 
Vidiot
Vidiot 9 days ago


Hadriel - "Rather smartly the tower has turned its focus to third world countries and the foreign land effort.These areas are far less likely to have heard of all the chicanery unlike the modern world and its free flowing information."
Trust me, "smarts" ain't got nothin' to do with it... the Third World is simply the only market demographic they got left.
And sure, they may be able to get new converts there, but what good are they if they're all broke as shit?
 +3 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 9 days ago

It appears the Watchtower Corporation is pushing to go not go where the need is great but where there's no inter-net.

The easy to access availability of the inter-net with its mostly damaging information against the WTS. is crippling the WTS/JWS overall.

 +1 / -0
Nathan Natas
Nathan Natas 8 days ago

done4good asked two questions:

Q1.: Why is it every time this is discussed, people take either extreme?


A1.: Because that is how conversations work. If everyone thought the same, no discussion board would be necessary; see the invisible discussion board at JW.ORG as an example.





Q2.: Neither extreme is correct. [?]

A2.: According to Schrödinger's Witnesses, this is not only correct, but necessary.


 +1 / -0
Vidiot
Vidiot 8 days ago

@ Finkelstein...
Hmm.
I wonder if it's possible to A) get hard numbers on the Org's growth in Third World countries, and B) compare those numbers with the degree of internet penetration in said Third World countries...
 +1 / -0
dropoffyourkeylee
dropoffyourkeylee 8 days ago
Thanks 20year, for the Melville quote!
 
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 8 days ago

I wonder if it's possible to A) get hard numbers on the Org's growth in Third World countries, and B) compare those numbers with the degree of internet penetration in said Third World countries...
Don't know if that's possible but it would seem that in most modernized wealthier countries, where the inter-net is easily available that the JWS numbers have been weakening.
Ignorance is an exploited catalyst fuel to which the WTS has always used and exploited , not only from a theological perspective but also about its own inherent past propagating doctrines.

In the past the WTS would just stop production of certain pieces of literature and make the move to have them taken off the shelves of Kingdom Halls, now days anyone can can research the activity of the WTS/JWS and find a lot of undisclosed information that isn't recently present.

 
Beth Sarim
Beth Sarim 8 days ago
It's still strange that the Borg still boasts about steady growth in the World in general though.
 +1 / -0
Hadriel
Hadriel 8 days ago
@Finkelstein that would be an interesting matrix and not too hard to wire up. If I get time I think that would be a gem of a data mine!
 
steve2
steve2 8 days ago

Vidiot, the most likely source is the 2015 annual worldwide report in the 2016 Yearbook. Select countries that meet criteria for being defined as "third world" - some countries will be more obvious than others. The World Health organization may be the best source for a comprehensive list of third world countries.
Go to it! 
 

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Topic Summary
it is rather clear that the internet is to put it mildly, wrecking the world of the watchtower bible & tract society.
if not for foreign language i doubt there would be much growth at all.. digital trends and analytics are very real.
i live this analytics world i assure you to some degree you can take it to the bank.



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Jehovah's Witnesses: A Clear Decline
by Hadriel 9 days ago 43 Replies latest 8 days ago   watchtower bible
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average joe
average joe 8 days ago

https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%2Fm%2F0dtdq
It looks like its going up not down. Am I reading this wrong?
 
Hadriel
Hadriel 8 days ago

No what you are showing there is a target area which is a third world country. Absolutely it is going up in those areas without the ability to do research on the organization.
In the more modern world though no traffic is at a decline. They are absolutely less relevant than in years past.
Well that is of course unless you include things like JW Lawsuits, JW Child Abuse and so on. Then there's plenty of traffic.
A word to the wise though trends shows based on a given target area. So notice the target area of your link there. Meaning your trend is not the same as the one I posted.
Hopefully I made that understandable :smile:
 
freddo
freddo 8 days ago

And notice how even in average joe's link it peaks around August/October 2014 and drops steadily down to February 2016.
Is this because jwdotorgasm was really pushed in the summer of 2014 and now interest is already waning?
 
pepperheart
pepperheart 8 days ago
The JWs not only need new people but new people with money

 +2 / -0

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Topic Summary
it is rather clear that the internet is to put it mildly, wrecking the world of the watchtower bible & tract society.
if not for foreign language i doubt there would be much growth at all.. digital trends and analytics are very real.
i live this analytics world i assure you to some degree you can take it to the bank.



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by AndersonsInfo 3 months ago
oppostate
Jehovah's Witnesses 'ordered destruction' of notes which could have been used during child sexual abuse inquiry
by oppostate a month ago



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Watchtower December 15th issue caught lying again!
by freeman 9 days ago 11 Replies latest 9 days ago   watchtower bible
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freeman
freeman 9 days ago

Watchtower caught lying again in the December 15th article “A Living Translation Of God's Word”. More like a lying then a living translation of God”s word if you ask me. But I digress...
So anyway my jw wife left this litter on the coffee table and a saw that it had an article about the the revised NWT so I perused it a bit. A quick look through the rag and bong I spotted the . . . ellipsis. I said to myself, could it be, oh no, not again. Do they really still use that old trick to deceive people?
Curiosity got the better of me so I put the words before the ellipsis into Google and sure enough, my goodness,they were being deceitful once again. They just can't help themselves!
I tell you the internet is their worst nightmare. Google is an ellipsis trick killer!
They were using the infamous ellipsis trick once again to make someone else appear to be saying something they never really said so as to make them look bad, and themselves look better. This time the Watchtower attacks were focused on the Revised Standard Version of the bible and it's translators.
Waxing on about how wonderful and superior the rNWT is compared to other bible translations mainly because it includes the divine name Jehovah while other versions such as the RSV has blatantly removed it without cause and supposedly quoting from the preface: "The preface says: The use of any proper name for the one and only God . . . is entirely inappropriate for the universal faith of the Christian Church".
Of course the writers of the RSV never said that in the preface of their bible. Here is a snippet including the words between the . . . ellipsis that they really did say including why they don't use the supposed divine name:

The form "Jehovah" is of late medieval origin; it is a combination of the consonants of the Divine Name and the vowels attached to it by the Masoretes but belonging to an entirely different word. The sound of Y is represented by J and the sound of W by V, as in Latin. For two reasons the Committee has returned to the more familiar usage of the King James Version: (1) the word "Jehovah" does not accurately represent any form of the Name ever used in Hebrew; and (2) the use of any proper name for the one and only God, as though there were other gods from whom He had to be distinguished, was discontinued in Judaism before the Christian era and is entirely inappropriate for the universal faith of the Christian Church.
 
The entire preface found here: http://www.ncccusa.org/newbtu/aboutrsv.html
So they try to make the writers of the RSV look like they have no respect for God when in fact they have the utmost respect, not wanting to use an invented name that clearly never was associated God until medieval times. They don't need to deceptively misquote others to puff themselves up, but the dark tower does.
I so hate this cult and how it holds my dear wife in bondage.
Freeman
 +13 / -0
freddo
freddo 9 days ago
Nice catch!
 +2 / -0
Giordano
Giordano 9 days ago

The WT even use's the expression "The Divine name..... Jehovah". If it's a made up name how does it become divine?
Every time Lett or the one with the rubbery face GB member, who sounds like his false teeth are loose, says Jeehhooverer it sounds like he's calling a pet.
And I believe they have diminished their god by naming him and then calling on him like a pet dog. And forget Jesus get in line dude behind the GB.
It was kind of up to god to proclaim his own name........ if he didn't and Jesus didn't ........then it must not have been important.
Time for my evening Martini.
 +3 / -0
Listener
Listener 9 days ago
The people at the Kingdom Halls get more respect, they get called Brother or Sister.

 
Beth Sarim
Beth Sarim 9 days ago
I've often wondered how they contrived the 'Divine' name from only a few symbols????
 
jehobi
jehobi 9 days ago
Thanks for this info. Going to email my JW family this.

 
Room 215
Room 215 9 days ago

Excellent point!
I also ,like this:

◦"The people at the Kingdom Halls get more respect; they get called Brother or Sister."

 Flag Dislike Like
◦
 +2 / -0
jhine
jhine 9 days ago
Is that from the study version rather than the one handed out to the public ?
 Jan
 
wannaexit
wannaexit 9 days ago
Oh good catch.!!!

 
ttdtt
ttdtt 9 days ago

So I am no expert for sure. 3 things though.
1. I don't know if using the "name" JWs use is really wrong. I have seen it spelled out in very old churches in europe for myself, so it was used in that past. Hard to say it's not been in use for a long time, maybe not as long as they claim?
2. No one has issue with using the name and pronunciation of Jesus which has similar grammar.
3. Your source. I don't trust other religious sources in general any more than the WT, and the article has not references you can check.
It is infuriating how the WT crapps on everyone else, especially in light of how they had done nothing original themselves. Everything they have written about and the majority of the core beliefs were Pirated from others.
For years I would argue when some article came out about history or science or such, that by the way I had heard about many months before on NPR (someone there has there radio tuned to WNYC), reminding people that the WT does not have a research department breaking new ground in Medicine, History, Science. The friends get the idea that the geniuses in brooklyn discover this stuff on their own, and don't just plagiarized things.
I think the bigger issue with the "name" in the new "slippery sword" is how many times they put it in where it was definitely NOT! So much for "he who adds or takes away."
Religion is just a destructive deceptive and corrupt force on man.
 +1 / -0
Watchtower-Free
Watchtower-Free 9 days ago




 +2 / -0
Vidiot
Vidiot 9 days ago

Once again, for the newbies, lurkers, and trolls...
x
...if you have to cheat to defend your beliefs, your beliefs don't deserve to be defended.
 

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ADVANCED WARNING - April 18th to 24th WT Study
by Nicholaus Kopernicus 8 days ago 20 Replies latest 7 days ago   watchtower bible
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
Nicholaus Kopernicus 8 days ago
FEBRUARY 2016 STUDY WATCHTOWER"Prove Yourself Loyal to Jehovah" - Week of April 18th to 24th
"15. If a brother treats us unfairly, how should we react?
15 In congregations of Jehovah’s people today, it is very unlikely that we would be treated unjustly. However, those taking the lead among us are imperfect men and could misinterpret our actions. (1 Sam. 1:13-17) If we are ever misjudged or misunderstood, let us remain loyal to Jehovah."
In the above paragraph, it is "those taking the lead" who are gently alluded to as being the perpetrators. There is no admonition for "those taking the lead" to acknowledge their wrong doing and apologise to their victims. No. The answer is for the victims to "remain loyal to Jehovah" (code for sticking with the organisation). That the perpetrators' unjust treatment of others is discounted to that of misjudged or misunderstood is evasion to put it mildly. I have experience of direct bullying on the part of BoE members, and I have knowledge of others being brought to tears such has been the truly wanton and egregious conduct of some on the BoE. This behaviour is tolerated by others on the BoE who do not challenge the situation and thus enable continuance. CO visits are useless in terms of correcting or assuaging the situation. What I and others have experienced cannot be explained away by their misjudging or misunderstanding. These ones taking the lead have behaved like Annas in having Jesus persecuted. Would the writing committee of the GBoJW seek to mitigate what Annas perpetrated by saying that he had merely misjudged or misunderstood Jesus? Annas' actions were carefully planned and contrived. He was in a position of authority in a hierarchy focussed on itself and preserving it's own authority. Annas was a thug. Additionally, the paragraph states that it is "very unlikely that we would be treated unjustly"! I just wonder how many on this forum can agree with such a claim. I for one cannot. Too many bad experiences over the years evidencing that abuse and bullying is now intrinsic to life in "Jehovah's Organisation"!
When this study comes along in April, I will either have to abstain from attending regardless of what family think, or simply egress during that paragraph being read/discussed. It's a small paragraph, but one which seriously irritates.
 +15 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 8 days ago


FEBRUARY 2016 STUDY WATCHTOWER"Prove Yourself Loyal to Jehovah" - Week of April 18th to 24th
"15. If a brother treats us unfairly, how should we react?
15 In congregations of Jehovah’s people today, it is very unlikely that we would be treated unjustly.
........................My JW Children Shun Me..
.....................I Never See My Grandchildren..

..............Image result for WTF
 +16 / -0
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 8 days ago

Isn't the spirit behind "taking the lead" synonymous with setting an example? Don't Xians aspire to imitate the faith of those who have fine conduct? Isn't fine conduct the barometer for who an Xian considers as "taking the lead"?
Also, where are Xians admonished to ignore wrongdoing and be obedient to those who fail to properly "take the lead" by setting a bad example? Isn't that "obedience" relative?
This article, which I won't be reading, is no doubt a one-sided STFU reminder for the sheeple who's opinions do not matter. Sure the Eldubs always say, "We are accountable to Jehovah.", but that statement has no teeth. "Wait on Jehovah", means STFU, make all the meetings, go in service, give $$$, ignore serious issues and how dare you even mention such things, and eventual death from old age.
DD
 +5 / -0
prologos
prologos 8 days ago
Their holinesses are never wrong, not even the local "glorious ones" . blame the the r&f for 1975. I guess Uriah should have put a chastity belt on Bathsheba, locked the lid to the roof, his fault. and don't forget, all this is for "J--" to test our loyalty, to see what is really in our hearts., prove satan a liar. so: just do more service to cure your problems. Very good points in the OP and comments.
 +3 / -0
freemindfade
freemindfade 8 days ago
The "one true religion" tool so effectively used by a cult.
 +5 / -0
Beth Sarim
Beth Sarim 8 days ago
No, they are never wrong, never.
 +3 / -0
steve2
steve2 8 days ago

Where is the strong admonition for the elders to stop hiding behind "human imperfection" and lift their game?
Certainly not in the Watchtower.
The biggest excuse in the organization has to be "human imperfection". They cite Paul's frequent comments about the early leaders of the Christians. Excuses pure and simple.
The OP is correct: Even if one or two elders on the BoE think their fellow elders are unjustly treating members of the congregation, they seldom speak up to effect change. And CO's come, make their (predictable) recommendations and then go.
Nothing changes. Hiding being "human imperfection" is the name of the game. When this happens in the churches of Christendom, you never ever hear a JW say, "Well they're imperfect humans just like us". Instead, you get strong judgements and condemnation of the clergy and pastors.
 +6 / -0
brandnew
brandnew 8 days ago

In other words "shut up , and deal with it !!!!!! Rank and file turd!!!!". All bad
Mad Puppy
 +2 / -0
BluesBrother
BluesBrother 8 days ago
Same article, par 17:
" Let us prove our loyalty to Jehovah by being loyal to his people, even those who may disappoint us. "
So once again, any deviation from their organization is seen as a deviation from God..Who are they to make such extravagant claims? Perhaps instead , they should remind their Elders of Jesus' words
Luke 12:48" Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him."If they believe that, they would act with more humility....
 +5 / -0
Beth Sarim
Beth Sarim 8 days ago
They are sure playing the ''obey card' with this one.
 +3 / -0
ToesUp
ToesUp 8 days ago

So the rank and file are just supposed to roll over and think..."well the Elders are just imperfect men."
BUT (A BIG BUT) when we make a mistake (remember, we are imperfect too), we are tarred and feathered. Total BS!
This cult is despicable!
 +4 / -0
ZAPPA-ESQUE
ZAPPA-ESQUE 8 days ago

I am now very afraid that I will start physically harming any JW who tries to get heavy with me over the stance I now hold in life - I am already in anger management for aggression related Directly to this cult -
It was not good for me to read this - it has just triggered this maelstrom in my brain -
"put up or shut up" is what they advocate here right ?
 +1 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 8 days ago

Wow....this sort of stuff is disturbing...
So the ones that mistreat should be excused? It is the problem of the one being mistreated??
Didn't jesus say something about "the hairs of one's head being numbered"? Oh, except if the abuser is an elder....then the one being abused has the problem!
 +3 / -0
sir82
sir82 8 days ago

This is exactly the sort of stuff that drives JWs with low self-esteem or emotional issues even deeper into a funk.
 +4 / -0
WTWizard
WTWizard 8 days ago
Is this why they are so against magic? Justice demands black magic be performed against those who willfully abuse others, or they are going to continue abusing people. And a few rounds of black magic against the whole washtowel will threaten those at the top, perhaps with having to find real jobs and having those who support it having the rug pulled out from under them. Thus, since they don't want this to happen, they simply ban people from using magic at all.

 +1 / -0
Nicholaus Kopernicus
Nicholaus Kopernicus 7 days ago

The Jeremiah Book - Chapter 11
"Shepherds in Agreement With My Heart" - para 4
"Woe to any who neglect or lord it over their brothers or who adopt a harsh or arrogant attitude toward them!"
The above quotation is a very short but also rare warning from the GBoJW's to it's temple police officers. The small paragraph from the Feb 2016 study WT is also very short, but radically different in approach. The book above was published about 6 years ago. Since then, how individuals are treated continues to worsen, and with not even a cursery glance on the matter with those who could influence things for the better. Today's GBoJW's knows that it has a problem with the retention and recruitment of temple police officers. The decent one's depart from the role (mentally) or actually resign such is their disdain for the gulf between what they thought was a shepherding role, and the actual policing/bullying role which it really is. So the GBoJW's today has to tread carefully for fear of offending its officers.
Not to worry however as I can see things positively. Both I, the individuals whom I mentioned earlier who were brought to tears by the temple police, and other families who have been bullied and harassed for sponsoring their children for higher education, all these folks have closed their wallets to their local congregations and to the WTBTS. This is so gratifying to learn and encourage. So to the extent to which individuals similarly close their wallets is to the extent that the GBoJW's weeping and gnashing of teeth will be. These remote, insular, self-absorbed fellows don't know the value of GOOD WILL, nor how easily they are destroying it. Truly in denial they are!
 +2 / -0
Beth Sarim
Beth Sarim 7 days ago
This is what causes JW's anxiety, fear and depression problems.
 +1 / -0
problemaddict 2
problemaddict 2 7 days ago

I wonder when the last time a committee of three guys talking to some poor "sinner" in front of them said well.......I guess we will just "wait on Jehovah".
My guess is pretty much never.

 +3 / -0
millie210
millie210 7 days ago

Well, well, well.
Buried under the strata layer of crap here, is the teensy admission that they know they have a problem...
The sheep are bombarding them with complaints against elders.
The quality of elders is going down as the standard has to be lowered just to find enough men to want the job.
Those two things have collided and "look Houston, we have a problem" so in typical JW style their first attempt to address it is to browbeat the sheep.
 +2 / -0
flipper
flipper 7 days ago
" In congregations of Jehovah's people today , it is very unlikely that we would be treated unjustly. " Uh-huh. Try telling that to hundreds if not thousands of JW children who have been molested by JW elders worldwide through the years. Bastards. Peace out, mr. Flipper
 +2 / -0

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ADVANCED WARNING - April 18th to 24th WT Study
by Nicholaus Kopernicus 8 days ago 20 Replies latest 7 days ago   watchtower bible
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RichardHaley
RichardHaley 7 days ago
A lot of imperfect men leading in other religions too! Should I give them the same consideration? Inquiring minds want to know. Morons.
 

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Topic Summary
february 2016 study watchtower"prove yourself loyal to jehovah" - week of april 18th to 24th"15. if a brother treats us unfairly, how should we react?
15 in congregations of jehovah’s people today, it is very unlikely that we would be treated unjustly.
however, those taking the lead among us are imperfect men and could misinterpret our actions.



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Why do EX-JW's try to argue the bible/doctrine with JW's?
by thedepressedsoul 10 days ago 10 Replies latest 9 days ago   watchtower bible
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thedepressedsoul
thedepressedsoul 10 days ago

I've watched a few Judicial Committee videos on Youtube. They all start out great but eventually the person starts to bring out bible teachings and doctrine. I understand that 99% of their teachings are complete crap, but to me it's a pointless battle.
As a JW growing up I remember being on countless calls where a JW would argue the Trinity with the householder. I have seen this at least a hundred times. Not once did the householder ever walk away no longer believing in the Trinity. The JW left feeling like he was right that the Trinity didn't exist and the householder would walk away still believing and thinking they were right and won the argument.
The point I'm trying to make is, there is a reason that there are thousands upon thousands of different Christian denominations. The bible can be used to justify just about any type of belief/teaching that you want. I mean look at how you can use the bible to try and get some crappy teaching like 1914.
I think the best thing when dealing with a Committee or an active JW is to focus on stuff where the bible doesn't even get brought up. The ARC, child abuse, donations etc... Most of these Judicial Committee's start off going over topics like this and the person that is going through the Committee is owning it. The elders stumble over how to answer the child abuse issues.
The 2nd you bring up doctrine you put the ball in their court. Just like every other religion can use the bible to try and support their beliefs, JW can do the same. There is no winning a bible argument since the bible can be used to support almost any belief. 99% of the time people leave believing what they believed before the debate.
That's just my 2 cents and how I plan on handling situations in the future.
 +4 / -0
the girl next door
the girl next door 10 days ago
Seeds of doubt can be planted regarding doctrine. It really depends upon how adept you are at arguing points. I agree with you somewhat, it is a laborious process. But picking apart doctrine does affect certain JWs. Many have woken up over 587 vs 607, 1914, false prophecy, trinity, Michael vs Jesus, etc. Again it depends on the audience. Yes issues like domestic violence, child sex abuse, blood transfusions, the two witness rule, shunning all are strong points to focus on. Still doctrine is interlaced and generally JWs can only be affected when you start on a common ground of basing all arguments on the Bible. As soon as one discredits or dismisses the Bible as a whole, JWs shut down in 2 seconds flat.
 +3 / -0
Simon
Simon 10 days ago

It is pointless as you say - does anyone truly believe the elders are going to say "wow, I think you may be right - this is all crap!".
Like many things, it's something we go through for our own benefit. I think it's the realization that they don't have a monopoly on biblical interpretation and they are allowed to be challenged and that is liberating and empowering.
As soon as you open a bible you've lost - it's all hogwash and quoting scripture to prove anything is a pointless and meaningless exercise although it's funny when you tie bible people in knots with their beliefs.
 +3 / -0
slimboyfat
slimboyfat 10 days ago
Pretty futile. JWs teach that there's absolute truth. It's hard to shake off. Many former JWs jump straight from JWism into evangelical Christianity or strident atheism. All three are different sides of the same coin.
 +4 / -0
blondie
blondie 10 days ago

The important thing in my case was to avoid doctrinal issues but how people were treated in the congregation with concrete examples they were familiar with.
As to doctrinal points, jws are not taught to listen but to teach others but not to use the scriptures and if they do, out of context.
I was talking to a long inactive jw who did not realize that the phrase "governing body" is not in the bible at all. We looked over Acts 15 and 16 and they were stunned. It stopped them from think that they the individual was flawed and a sinner and has been checking everything they can on the internet.
In the end, people have to be at the right point to see it, some see it but are afraid and put it out of their mind until years later or when another similar point comes up. It took me 8 years to get but I am out, no "fading" but I am not df'd or have I da'd. Every day I learn more and adapt my thinking to the evidence I see.
 +1 / -0
notsurewheretogo
notsurewheretogo 10 days ago

Doctrine v doctrine is one thing but when you bring up flaws within their own doctrine without comparing or stating you believe in another doctrine plants a seed as @the girl next door says...and eventually that can lead to a dub asking questions about their own doctrine for if every dub, before they become a dub, reviews and researches the WT doctrine on its own, do you think they would still become dubs?
No.
Whilst you will never get a JW walking away by pointing out the errors in JW doctrines because they believe that the GB are in Jehoovers hands you are planting a doubt about that very point...and once they get to the point that they contemplate that the GB are NOT in Jehoovers hands or the society is NOT Jehoovers channel used on earth then the house of cards comes tumbling down fast but the starting process is very small.
An excellent way I use with my wife is to pull apart other religions doctrines the same way I would the JW's by saying the new light method doesn't work and can't be the truth or mention the child abuse and policies and whilst not referring to JW land the point is the penny might drop that JW doctrines fail like all religions doctrines fail.
Point is though, doctrine bashing will not result in a JW walking away...if done in a mild manner it can lay the groundwork for doubts.
 
thedepressedsoul
thedepressedsoul 10 days ago
Yes I do agree that Doctrine debates do have their place. If a JW expresses doubts it is the perfect time to use it. However, if you just meet a JW or are going against an Elder, stay away from anything Doctrine related.
 
Londo111
Londo111 10 days ago

There is not a one-size-fits-all approach. And if people do not want to research on their own, they are not going to wake up.
I assumed even when I was DFed that even if the Bible was not divinely inspired, JWs had the closest interpretation of it. I was shocked to learn how many things were not really "Bible-based" and fell apart on examination or was just inconsistent. For instance, take "door to door", the Great Crowd/Other Sheep, ect... I thought 587/586 BC was fuzzy historically, some sort of guess by archaeologists, and that 607 BC was the date the Bible pointed too.
It's all part of fact-checking. But unless a person wants to confirm these things on their own, it will all go right past them.
 +1 / -0
Island Man
Island Man 10 days ago

You have a point. It is best to avoid doctrine. But I think some doctrinal issues are clear enough to expose the JWs as being wrong. Other issues are open to interpretation and its pointless trying to argue it with them.
As an example, consider the policy of not clapping when it is announced that someone has been reinstated. That was a clearly unscriptural policy given what Jesus said about the rejoicing of the Father of the prodigal son and the rejoicing of angels when a sinner repents.
But even when you can show the elders that Watchtower is flat out wrong about certain clear cut issues, the elders resort to the reasoning that the org. is not perfect and you need to wait on Jehovah and who else has the truth, etc.
So even when you're able to expose a few clear cut doctrinal problems that they can't honestly deny, it's not enough for them to concede that you are justified in leaving Watchtower.

 
talesin
talesin 10 days ago

That's a good point. As far as I'm concerned, it's for two reasons,
1. You desperately want that person to know TTATT. You care about them, and wish to rescue them from themselves.
2. You like to prove that you have the superior knowledge and intellect.
We all want our loved ones to have the best life they can have. Reason #1 is altruistic.

If it's #2, then you best take a look in the mirror. It's unfortunate that those who wish to show their superior knowledge, don't seem to own any mirrors. xx
 
steve2
steve2 9 days ago

Blondie has nailed it:
 jws are not taught to listen but to teach others
If jws did happen to listen (a huge if), they likely would not know how to convey they were listening. Pride rules.
It is simply safer to assume they don't know how to listen. At best, if they are still invested in the discussion, they will be thinking up what to say next.
Then, out of the blue, they'll flick a switch and the "discussion" is unilaterally ended.
 

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Does anyone know the themes of this year's circuit and district conventions?
by mamacita29 14 days ago 11 Replies latest 13 days ago   watchtower bible
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mamacita29
mamacita29 14 days ago
I'm trying to get a jump ahead for my colleague. I am making progress though and she is now willing to listen to logic. Logic and reasoning is like Kryptonite to JW's.

 +1 / -0
sir82
sir82 14 days ago

"Do More, You Miserable Worms"
"Jehovah Needs Your Money"
"We Speak For God, Obey Us Or Die"

 +7 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 14 days ago

Yes  " Steadfast Devotion to Jehovah's Publishing House "
 
Beth Sarim
Beth Sarim 14 days ago

''Send us your valuable things''.
lol, but just to make mention that it's 10 years since ''Deliverance at Hand''.
 +2 / -0
freddo
freddo 14 days ago

Welcome to the
"Dunk'em Young Circuit Assembly!"
1. Song & Prayer
2. Experiences - interviews of those who were baptised as soon as they were out of nappies and who remain confident in their old age that Jehovah's promises of paradise are true. (Wheelchair users may remain seated during their interviews)
3. Announcement
The Circuit Assembly deficit is £_________________
4. Financial Needs of the Local Circuit
Give Us Yer Lolly. (And Ice Cream Money)
5. Baptism Talk -
Are you over five years of age? Not baptised? No toy cars for you, then!
The baptism candidate (singular) will wave her teddy bear and say "Yes Mummy" to acknowledge she agrees with the "Two QUESTIONS".
Lunch time and upbuilding association with any anonymous pedophiles in the audience.
6. Symposium. Return To Jehovah!
A) Return To Jehovah With Your WALLET.
B) Having Returned, Will You Praise Jah With Your Valuable Things?
C) If You Have Returned, Have a Penis and Long Trousers - Then Reach Out For Privileges!
D) Return with a clean shaven face.
7. Explaining "The Generation" that Overlaps and It's Grand Climax at Hand!"
8. Announcement "The Deficit is still £________________________" Give More!
9. Beware of Apostate Lies about Child Abuse
Interview a repentant child molester and have him explain why Angus Stewart and Justice McLellan are tools of Satan.
Song (Would Jesus Wear a Rolex?) and Prayer
 +8 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 14 days ago

Good one Freddo

 +1 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 14 days ago

or..... " Providing for Jehovah's Earthly Kingdom to Gain Paradise "

 
steve2
steve2 14 days ago
"Millions Now Living Are F*cking Gullible"
 +4 / -0
Sabin
Sabin 14 days ago
Freddo, you are so cool man. I split my sides laughing.
 
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 14 days ago

"Imitate Jeehoober, the Grand-Gofundme.com user!" 2016
DD
 +1 / -0
daringhart13
daringhart13 14 days ago

Freddo...........that.........was...........awesome



 +1 / -0
freddo
freddo 13 days ago

Any circuit assembly reports anyone?
As in number baptised/number attending?
 

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How to write your own watchtower article!
by stuckinarut2 22 days ago 0 Replies latest 22 days ago   watchtower bible
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stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 22 days ago

Found this great site with a page on how to write your own WT article!
Funny stuff...yet very accurate!
http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/watchtower-review/write-your-own-watchtower-article-part-2/

 +1 / -0

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