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Ex-ing gay couples?  
Posted: 26 February 2016 03:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
jellybean
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I saw something as I was scrolling through FB today, and it was only because a friend commented on the post that I saw it. Anyway, I wish I could find it easily but since I can't I want to ask if anyone else saw this.
 
Supposedly the church is going to actively seek out legally married gay couples who are still members and call them to repent or get a church court and ex-communicate them. Now, this is confusing, because I can't imagine any gay couples who wouldn't have resigned, but for arguments sake lets say there are some.
 
Why bother? No one is going to ditch their family and partner just to not get x-ed. 
 
Anyone else heard this non-sense? Part of me has a hard time believing it only because the church seems like they would rather keep people on the records than have their numbers drop.


   


Posted: 26 February 2016 03:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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They are even DOUBLE TAPPING! 
 
It appears as though they are even going after gay couples when at least one of them has previously been excommunicated. Apparently gay couples are so aggregious they require double excommunication. I guess it is the mormon equivalent of double tapping a zombie. 
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Posted: 26 February 2016 06:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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They've been exing gays for years....and probably will continue. Their "claim to love gay people" is and has always been a lie they tell, to get the press off their backs.
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Posted: 26 February 2016 07:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Tessa:
They've been exing gays for years....and probably will continue. Their "claim to love gay people" is and has always been a lie they tell, to get the press off their backs.
 
 Of course they have, it's against the teachings so I would expect them to do. This sounded a bit more extreme, like they were planning to go out and actively look for people in gay marriages to take to church court. It was really odd.


   


Posted: 27 February 2016 05:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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John Dehlin over on "Mormon Stories" just released a podcast interviewing Elizabeth Grimshaw. Elizabeth is facing excommunication for her same sex marriage. She claims in the podcast that the Bishop gave her the choices of: 1 - resigning from the church; 2 - divorcing and leaving her wife and child; 3 - face a "court of love".
 
How wide spread this will become in the Mormon Church depends on the PR that it provokes. IMO - if this stays under the radar, COB will let the local bishops and SP begin and continue the "witch hunts". If stories like Elizabeths gain any traction in mainstream or social media, COB will likely step in and hold clandestine training meetings to discourage local leadership from leading the church down the path of 1792 Salem.
 
I hear arguments like: "Same sex couples know according to Church doctrines this is a sin, and the church should have the right to kick them out." At a philosophical level, I can't argue this point; however in matters of 'religious claims', philosophical tenants, just don't seem admissible to their argument.
 
My whole existance in Mormonism was dealing with the heavy weight of having obtained the saving ordinances of exhaltation. So a question that often comes to my mind is: "one would think if these ordinances really carried the EXTREME consequences of eternal salvation or eternal damnation, as claimed by Q15, then the excommunication of an individual would merit the upmost caution and vetting; stripping a person of saving ordinances would be the absolute last resort and a very rare outcome?"
 
Now it seems like Mormon leadership plays with "memberships" like they are a cheap bet at a Vegas black jack table. Even worse the chips (memberships) Mormon leaders bet, are not theirs to bet.  Ahhhh if the Q15 could only follow some of the the teachings of Jesus?
 
Elizabeth Grimshaw's interview is only 26+ minutes---it is worth the listen. 
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Posted: 27 February 2016 07:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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WinstonSmith:
John Dehlin over on "Mormon Stories" just released a podcast interviewing Elizabeth Grimshaw. Elizabeth is facing excommunication for her same sex marriage. She claims in the podcast that the Bishop gave her the choices of: 1 - resigning from the church; 2 - divorcing and leaving her wife and child; 3 - face a "court of love".
 
How wide spread this will become in the Mormon Church depends on the PR that it provokes. IMO - if this stays under the radar, COB will let the local bishops and SP begin and continue the "witch hunts". If stories like Elizabeths gain any traction in mainstream or social media, COB will likely step in and hold clandestine training meetings to discourage local leadership from leading the church down the path of 1792 Salem.
 
I hear arguments like: "Same sex couples know according to Church doctrines this is a sin, and the church should have the right to kick them out." At a philosophical level, I can't argue this point; however in matters of 'religious claims', philosophical tenants, just don't seem admissible to their argument.
 
My whole existance in Mormonism was dealing with the heavy weight of having obtained the saving ordinances of exhaltation. So a question that often comes to my mind is: "one would think if these ordinances really carried the EXTREME consequences of eternal salvation or eternal damnation, as claimed by Q15, then the excommunication of an individual would merit the upmost caution and vetting; stripping a person of saving ordinances would be the absolute last resort and a very rare outcome?"
 
Now it seems like Mormon leadership plays with "memberships" like they are a cheap bet at a Vegas black jack table. Even worse the chips (memberships) Mormon leaders bet, are not theirs to bet.  Ahhhh if the Q15 could only follow some of the the teachings of Jesus?
 
Elizabeth Grimshaw's interview is only 26+ minutes---it is worth the listen. 
 
 Good point, it's interesting the church sometimes doesn't seem to give excommunication the same weight as it wants members to give it. But this has gone on from day one, starting with JS ex-ing anyone who made him look bad.
 
It wouldn't surprise me if the church is actively looking for same-sex couples to ex, because it has dug in its heels so hard on the issue and wouldn't want to look like it's letting same-sex marriage "slide" by letting them remain members.
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Posted: 28 February 2016 06:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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As an aside -
 
How much do I wish they would include the numbers of resignations and excommunications when they give the membership numbers at conference? 
 
I totally remember being a member and hearing the membership totals and actually believing there had been no resignations/excommunications that year.  Because why would anyone do that?  The church was true.
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Posted: 28 February 2016 07:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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jellybean:
I saw something as I was scrolling through FB today, and it was only because a friend commented on the post that I saw it. Anyway, I wish I could find it easily but since I can't I want to ask if anyone else saw this.
 
Supposedly the church is going to actively seek out legally married gay couples who are still members and call them to repent or get a church court and ex-communicate them. Now, this is confusing, because I can't imagine any gay couples who wouldn't have resigned, but for arguments sake lets say there are some.
 
Why bother? No one is going to ditch their family and partner just to not get x-ed. 
 
Anyone else heard this non-sense? Part of me has a hard time believing it only because the church seems like they would rather keep people on the records than have their numbers drop.
Self-proclaimed, mormon Cult Operative profits have been speaking out of both sides of their mouths for some time on this issue! What we see here is an old fashioned purge by paranoid, false profits scared to death by the LGBT Community in their midst! Gotta stamp out that virus of homosexuality before it overwhelms the faithful! Little Factory Boyd K. Packer was an advocate of such a thought process that he promoted against apostates! Gay sons/ daughters of God are now classified as apostates - aren't they!?
 
Deceased Apostle Boyd K. Packer:
“Remember: when you see the bitter apostate, you do not see only an absence of light, you see also the presence of darkness. Do not spread disease germs.”

- Apostle Boyd K. Packer, “The Mantle is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect,” speech given August 1981 at BYU, Brigham Young University Studies, Summer 1981
 
This purge has been ongoing for some time now but the recent policy later upscaled to the status of a Godly revelation to give it more clout amoung the faithful drones authorized hurtful discrimination against innocent children from gay families that signaled a vicious intent to harm the most vulnerable little ones among them! This/other vindicitive revelations allegedly coming directly from their abusive, mormon God originated in the minds of vile, mentally ill, creepy old God mongers of false religion! This latest emphasis on eliminating gays from the church is evidently some kind of final solution for the kingdom of absurdity/lies! It's likely that these vindictive ignoramuses believe gay is catchy like the common cold! It's no wonder that their mormon cult is imploding around them!
 
In victim's humble opinion, the Cult will keep the names of excommunicated, former members, those who resign/those who have left the Cult/attend other churches on their membership rolls until they are 110 years old! Remember, there is no honor among thieves! victim 
 
 


   


Posted: 29 February 2016 05:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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Sounds like a witch hunt to me...
"....Leisha LaCrone said a hardware store employee tried to talk to her about the church a couple of times, and after she declined, the couple started receiving phone calls asking them to meet with the local Mormon bishop, and they also turned down these requests. The topper, they told the station, was when church members hand-delivered a letter saying a disciplinary council — a church court hearing — was being held for Leisha because she had been reported to “have participated in conduct unbecoming a member of the Church.” She posted a picture of the letter on Facebook."
http://www.advocate.com/religion/2016/2/27/mormon-church-threatens-same-sex-couples-disciplinary-action
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Growing up Gay and Mormon  
Posted: 28 February 2016 04:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
CorbinBrodie
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I've already posted here about my book:
 
The Gate and The Garden: The Apostate Journals of a Gay Mormon Missionary in Japan
 
I've been so touched by some of the feedback and support I've had so far and thank you for it with all my heart.
 
I also totally appreciate that many people might be interested in the heart of the matter, and not want to buy or read the whole thing.
 
So I'm sharing the key journal entry when I finally talked about growing up gay and Mormon. I attach it as word doc to this post. It was the moment I finally poured my heart out about this aspect of my Mormon experience.
 
The whole point of my publishing the book is to offer up some blunt honest sharing of what growing up gay and Mormon is really like, especially when you only realize on your mission what a terrible mistake you've made.
 
Straight readers might find some of it a bit icky, I realize, because when I did talk about growing up gay and Mormon I talked about the whole experience. 
 
But I wanted to share it mainly for any gay Mormon or gay ex-Mormon readers, without them having to buy or read the whole book.
 
 
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Posted: 28 February 2016 09:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Wow. That was absolutely beautiful. Very powerful, very moving, and very close to home. 
 
I'm also a product of Southern Alberta (Calgary and Magrath) and I totally understand the mindset of the male population in the area. I'm afraid I was once one of them. But that seems like such a long, long time ago. 
 
I do believe the church cheated me out of the best years of my life. Even as a straight male, I agree that my "best two years" could have been so much better. I didn't figure out the con until I was almost 50. I hope you can take comfort in the fact that you figured it out much sooner than I did. 
 
And I hope you were able to track down Brock.  
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Posted: 28 February 2016 04:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized:
Wow. That was absolutely beautiful. Very powerful, very moving, and very close to home. 
 
I'm also a product of Southern Alberta (Calgary and Magrath) and I totally understand the mindset of the male population in the area. I'm afraid I was once one of them. But that seems like such a long, long time ago. 
 
I do believe the church cheated me out of the best years of my life. Even as a straight male, I agree that my "best two years" could have been so much better. I didn't figure out the con until I was almost 50. I hope you can take comfort in the fact that you figured it out much sooner than I did. 
 
And I hope you were able to track down Brock.  
 
Thanks MU. That means a lot to me.
 
Yes I am glad I got out when I was 20. I hope you can take comfort in outgrowing neanderthal Southern Alberta male-ness!
 
All us post-mos do talk a lot of the various things the church has cheated us of but time is certainly one of the worst things it takes.
 
Brock is still my best and closest friend (but totally straight).
 
 


   


            
 
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Elder Bill Shunn... link to a great true story
by Rmyth
The Talk
by Matter Unorganized
Endured a Visiting Teaching message to the bitter end
by Winyan
Trump ?
by Winyan
Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series March 6th 2 PM- MORONI AND THE SWASTIKA
by Jammerwoch
I'm New - Just met with my Bishop - Not a good experiance
by MishMagnet
And Still He Lingers
by Celestial Wedgie
The Little Factory
by Celestial Wedgie
Ex-ing gay couples?
by tab
Mormonism is basically a religion about sex
by victim
Growing up Gay and Mormon
by CorbinBrodie
Life after church
by Celestial Wedgie
New movie "The Witch" now in theaters is a creepy but interesting movie re: religion
by Strong Free & Thankful
St. Judas the Traitor 1st Ward - Meetup - Sunday, February 28th, 10:00am at Harmons (Draper, UT) - ***New photo at bottom of thread***
by BITE ME
If We Helped To Create It, Don't We Have A Moral Obligation To Correct It? FLDS Body Guard
by Strong Free & Thankful
Your Not Alone- Radio West- Living life without religious influence
by Celestial Wedgie
Porn, Good or Bad?
by Tessa
Interesting article: Warren Jeffs' bodyguard breaks his silence (link)
by Matter Unorganized
It's a Beautiful Day!
by son of perdition
Joseph Smith Was Not The Only One Whom The Religious Have Annointed--Many Wives--Had The Innocent Killed
by Strong Free & Thankful 

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Mormonism is basically a religion about sex  
Posted: 25 February 2016 02:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
CorbinBrodie
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Mormonism is basically a religion about sex. I thought this even while growing up. It's actually what made me uncomfortable and confused as a kid long before I had any logical, doctrinal or metaphysical reservations about it.
 
 
My earliest memories of being taught about morals and ethics by parents and LDS adults had nothing to do with honesty, integrity, morality or decency (even though lip service would be paid to those things). It was all mainly about the body and it was a temple and don't touch it. All that stuff is purely for later on when you're married so you can make Mormon babies. And if you're gay then we've got a camp we can send you to.
 
It was only later in life I discovered that morality could be about economics, society, tolerance, the environment: real things. While growing up I never heard any of the Mormon adults talk about injustice, inequality or other real moral issues: Jesus would sort that all out. For them, morality was only and mainly about sex.
 
I also remember, as a boy, watching adult male Mormons talking from the pulpit as an example as how to be a man. Then, I used to think: that's spirituality, authority, truth. 
 
Now, I can see it for the ludicrous chimpanzee behaviour it was. All of them competing to be the most spiritual yet somehow masculine. Their target? All the LDS ladies in the congregation who would swoon with pleasure over which bishop or other priesthood leader had got the balance the most perfectly.
 
When I went on my mission I thought I was going on a spiritual journey. Then I discovered a bunch of 19 year old's who only thought about how successful they could be because it would get them the sexiest Mormon girl when they got home.
 
For a while, ever after dumping the church, I continued to somehow think Joseph Smith was probably a misguided but genuine prophet in the sense that he used his imagination to answer genuine human spiritual needs, even though he made up stuff to do so.
 
Then I discovered he was just a pervert and sexual opportunist.
 
Even after that, and knowing it was all poison, there was still a small part of my mind that thought, as many of those people who remain Mormon do, "well, maybe it helps people to be more moral than they might otherwise do", even if it's all made up.
 
Then I saw how Utah has some of the highest porn consumption rates in the US. Then I saw how the Church takes advantage of its tax exemption while using money to fund political campaigns to deprive gay people like me some kind of happiness that has nothing to do with them.
 
Then I reflected on this idea that apparently in LDS doctrine "heaven" is one man with a bunch of women to breed with.
 
Then I thought about the temple rituals, so zoned in on Adam and Eve and corruption and nudity, with its "veil" rituals which are almost some kind of "glory hole".
 
Then I just remembered my whole Mormon experience from childhood onwards and realised that, even though I'm gay and clearly think about sex, I'm not nearly as obsessed with sex as Mormonism is.
 
 
 


   


Posted: 25 February 2016 06:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Zelph the White
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I think you're onto something here.
 
Sexual purity was certainly the focus of my religious experience from age 12 on. From my perspective, my peers and I all experienced this as youth, missionaries, young single adults and then again as single adults.
 
It seems like "virtue" or "purity" was the measure of how devoted we all were. I always felt so evil because I would feel a powerful sex drive and be flooded with "impure" thoughts. God forgive me, I even took "matters" into my own hands from time to time. I didn't realize until just a few years ago that everyone around me had the same "impure" thoughts and drives. That being sexual is being human. Mormonism seemed like it wanted me to be asexual until my wedding night, and since I never married that was basically what I tried to be.
 
I wish I could reboot my life from about age 12 and relive it knowing what I know now. 


   


Posted: 26 February 2016 04:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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WinstonSmith
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CorbinBrodie:
 
<snip>
 
Then I thought about the temple rituals, so zoned in on Adam and Eve and corruption and nudity, with its "veil" rituals which are almost some kind of "glory hole".
 
<snip>
 
 
 
 
 
 
It is a good thing that the coffee was still brewing, or it would have been all over my screen.
 
Great Post!!! 
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Posted: 26 February 2016 05:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized
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Zelph the White:
I think you're onto something here.
 
Sexual purity was certainly the focus of my religious experience from age 12 on. From my perspective, my peers and I all experienced this as youth, missionaries, young single adults and then again as single adults.
 
It seems like "virtue" or "purity" was the measure of how devoted we all were. I always felt so evil because I would feel a powerful sex drive and be flooded with "impure" thoughts. God forgive me, I even took "matters" into my own hands from time to time. I didn't realize until just a few years ago that everyone around me had the same "impure" thoughts and drives. That being sexual is being human. Mormonism seemed like it wanted me to be asexual until my wedding night, and since I never married that was basically what I tried to be.
 
I wish I could reboot my life from about age 12 and relive it knowing what I know now. 
 
 Hmmm.... I don't remember this...
  
 
This hurts. I have often thought/wished the same. Unfortunately, there are no do-overs.
 
So... Carpe diem! 
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Posted: 26 February 2016 06:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Tessa
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Just trying to drive in the Utah Valleys...around the Great Salt Lake and Utah Lake. It was always about sex...and reproduction, never about conservation. Now they're pumping out Southern Utah, for oil...to drive all the vehicles the lovely "members" are polluting the air with. Ah well....maybe they luv lung cancer and asthma, Joseph Smith will bless them with eternal coughing.
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Posted: 27 February 2016 11:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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In a way, temples are about sex, as the idea is that couples get "sealed" so their children will be BIC. Some of them even have phallic features, such as certain chandeliers in the new Phoenix temple, and in my opinion, the Los Angeles temple looks a bit phallic when viewed from Santa Monica Blvd. There are urban legends about the St George temple having honeymoon suites because some couples had to travel far to get there. If those rooms existed, they're now called "storage" rooms.
 
There's also the idea of "purity" before going to the temple, and the frequent talks against porn, masturbation, and premarital sex shows that the church is really a sex cult.
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Posted: 27 February 2016 01:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
CorbinBrodie
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Zelph the White:

 
I wish I could reboot my life from about age 12 and relive it knowing what I know now. 


 
Yeah I've had this thought a lot. In fact, I'd be happy just to go back to 18, that summer before I went on mission, and make the right decision this time and have those two years back.
 
WinstonSmith...haha...I actually deleted that when I first wrote it, thinking, nah I can't say that. Then I finished my glass of wine and put it back in.


   


Posted: 29 February 2016 07:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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victim
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CorbinBrodie:
 
Mormonism is basically a religion about sex. I thought this even while growing up. It's actually what made me uncomfortable and confused as a kid long before I had any logical, doctrinal or metaphysical reservations about it.
 
 
My earliest memories of being taught about morals and ethics by parents and LDS adults had nothing to do with honesty, integrity, morality or decency (even though lip service would be paid to those things). It was all mainly about the body and it was a temple and don't touch it. All that stuff is purely for later on when you're married so you can make Mormon babies. And if you're gay then we've got a camp we can send you to.
 
It was only later in life I discovered that morality could be about economics, society, tolerance, the environment: real things. While growing up I never heard any of the Mormon adults talk about injustice, inequality or other real moral issues: Jesus would sort that all out. For them, morality was only and mainly about sex.
 
I also remember, as a boy, watching adult male Mormons talking from the pulpit as an example as how to be a man. Then, I used to think: that's spirituality, authority, truth. 
 
Now, I can see it for the ludicrous chimpanzee behaviour it was. All of them competing to be the most spiritual yet somehow masculine. Their target? All the LDS ladies in the congregation who would swoon with pleasure over which bishop or other priesthood leader had got the balance the most perfectly.
 
When I went on my mission I thought I was going on a spiritual journey. Then I discovered a bunch of 19 year old's who only thought about how successful they could be because it would get them the sexiest Mormon girl when they got home.
 
For a while, ever after dumping the church, I continued to somehow think Joseph Smith was probably a misguided but genuine prophet in the sense that he used his imagination to answer genuine human spiritual needs, even though he made up stuff to do so.
 
Then I discovered he was just a pervert and sexual opportunist.
 
Even after that, and knowing it was all poison, there was still a small part of my mind that thought, as many of those people who remain Mormon do, "well, maybe it helps people to be more moral than they might otherwise do", even if it's all made up.
 
Then I saw how Utah has some of the highest porn consumption rates in the US. Then I saw how the Church takes advantage of its tax exemption while using money to fund political campaigns to deprive gay people like me some kind of happiness that has nothing to do with them.
 
Then I reflected on this idea that apparently in LDS doctrine "heaven" is one man with a bunch of women to breed with.
 
Then I thought about the temple rituals, so zoned in on Adam and Eve and corruption and nudity, with its "veil" rituals which are almost some kind of "glory hole".
 
Then I just remembered my whole Mormon experience from childhood onwards and realised that, even though I'm gay and clearly think about sex, I'm not nearly as obsessed with sex as Mormonism is.
 
 
 
Yes, many knowledgeable people refer to the so-called mormon church as a Sex Cult! Alleged peep stone profit jo, a convicted money digger, glasslooker/ ripoff artist, who made polygamy/polyandry fashionable in his so-called church is a well documented sexual predator, adulterer many times over, pedophile, career criminal/general low-life of his time - yup, God's annointed profit of the restoration of all things jo smith jr. is the responsible pervert who created a contemporary version of his perverse heaven for his own earthly gratification/ those with similar tendencies who surrounded this creep, e.g., brigham young, heber c. kimball, john taylor/a barn full of reprobates who also gravitated to this 19th century Conman! 
 
Who in their right mind creates a celestial heaven that is nothing more than a sexual orgy in the sky/then insidiously claim it was God's idea? As is clear in the smith doctrine, men are promised innumerable women, endless sex for all eternity, their own perverse world/ eternal increase! To top it all off valiant mormon, male priesthood holders become sexually perverted mormon Gods! I ask, are there any other kind? Women are nothing more than sex toys, baby factories/objects of male sexual gradification! Wow, what a plan? And, this is the guy mormonism worships as a modern day profit! According to profit brigham young, profit jo smith jr. grants permission to enter his insidious heaven - not Jesus Christ! As we see, jo smith jr. gets top billing in mormonism! Heavens to murgatroyd!
 
My God, run as fast as you can right out the door of mormonism, lock it securely behind you - don't look back/save yourself/beloved family from a disturbed life/mind implosion as a faithful drone in this self-destructive Cult that hides behind God to do its evil biding! Eat out frequently, buy a boat, RV, water toys of all kinds, go hiking, camping/fishing often - thoroughly enjoy life outside the fraudulent, criminal organization that surely is Cult mormonism! victim   
 


   


            
 
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Forum Home  >  Member Forums  >  The Community Forum  >  Thread 
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Elder Bill Shunn… link to a great true story  
Posted: 26 June 2007 03:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Emilie
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I realize that some of you will be too young to have heard this story so want to share as it is too good to miss.
I was in Alberta when it happened and listened with great interest to the news reports.http://www.shunn.net/terror/1995/11/chapter_1_come_south_young_man.html



   


Posted: 26 June 2007 04:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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  http://www.shunn.net/terror/1995/11/chapter_1_come_south_young_man.html
I read this a few week ago. This is extremely funny and worth the read!
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Posted: 26 June 2007 03:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Spanky
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I served in the same mission as "Elder" Shunn, albeit six or seven years after he left.  Yet, they were still talking about him.  In fact, the day I stepped off the plane, the MP told us the story to warn us about obeying the laws and the mission rules.  Honestly, I didn't believe the story at that time, although his story was legendary among the missionaries.
However, as I got to talking to some of the members in the Calgary area, it became clear that the story was true.  It was pretty big news at the time.
A couple years ago, I came across his story and read it.  Really, it's quite a fascinating story, and he's a great writer.  If you haven't yet, I recommend you read it.


   


Posted: 27 June 2007 12:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Emilie
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Since I posted this link, I have clicked through his blog and re-read the entire story. That may be my third read. I think my fascination now is with his great sense of humor. 

   


Posted: 27 June 2007 02:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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He does have a great sense of humor, and he seems to be a fairly accomplished writer.  It's a fun read!


   


Posted: 27 June 2007 07:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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I read it yesterday.  HILARIOUS!  Plus, I told it to people at work today.  Kept us all entertained!
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Posted: 27 June 2007 09:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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Dutch
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Outstanding! I didn't accomplish a single thing today, professionally speaking. Instead, I stuck to this page-turner.
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Posted: 27 June 2007 10:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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This story is hilarious and sooooo ironic. I know this missionary's dad. We taught at the same school together and were great friends. The irony here is, this is the same son who a few months earlier got into big-time Canada/US trouble calling in a bomb threat trying to keep HIS companion from going home. Was on all the national and local news at the time. If I remember correctly, Don (the dad) told me the only reason why his son was not thrown into the slammer for a good part of his life was because the judge in the case was LDS. As it was, he was jailed for only a day or two and had to pay a fine. Canada news took issue with this and I have no idea if the judge was ever reprimanded. How funny. I did not know he came back early of his own volition.
Thanks, Emilie, for a blast into the past.
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Posted: 27 June 2007 11:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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hypatia:This story is hilarious and sooooo ironic. I know this missionary's dad. We taught at the same school together and were great friends. The irony here is, this is the same son who a few months earlier got into big-time Canada/US trouble calling in a bomb threat trying to keep HIS companion from going home. Was on all the national and local news at the time. If I remember correctly, Don (the dad) told me the only reason why his son was not thrown into the slammer for a good part of his life was because the judge in the case was LDS. As it was, he was jailed for only a day or two and had to pay a fine. Canada news took issue with this and I have no idea if the judge was ever reprimanded. How funny. I did not know he came back early of his own volition.
Thanks, Emilie, for a blast into the past.

According to the story, he did not come back early.
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Posted: 28 June 2007 03:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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Dutch:[
According to the story, he did not come back early.

Oooops. That's what I get for reading the first installment and not  the entire story. 
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Posted: 28 June 2007 03:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
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hypatia:
Dutch:[
According to the story, he did not come back early.

Oooops. That's what I get for reading the first installment and not  the entire story.
Whew, I was busy thinking how was I going to correct you without giving the whole darn story away.  Have you read the whole thing now?
I do not recall ever hearing that the judge was mormon, and the former Elder Shunn never said so. I also do not recall any backlash in the papers about the sentence.  I did hear the father interviewed.  He expressed gratitude to our justice system which did fool around before sentencing.
As a Canadian, I would be appalled to find that a judge would sentence based on a religion which matched his.  Yes, I know they aren't perfect, but I have worked in judges' chambers and I have witnessed enough to know that they really try to be "just".
I am going to try to research that once I can get to the Calgary Herald microfilm.  Unfortunately, Bill Shunn removed his links from this story, (they were probably taking up too much space).  I know the clippings from the newspaper used to be there, and I could have found out the name of the judge... then a little digging ...
I believe judges get to take everything they know about a person into consideration before passing sentence ... in this case, immediate confession, no record, no mens rea, spontaneous action, missionary lifestyle, incredible support system... etc.  I am not saying your info is wrong, I just have to check it out for myself. 


   


Posted: 28 June 2007 03:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]   

   
 
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EmilieI do not recall ever hearing that the judge was mormon, and the former Elder Shunn never said so. I also do not recall any backlash in the papers about the sentence.  I did hear the father interviewed.  He expressed gratitude to our justice system which did fool around before sentencing.
As a Canadian, I would be appalled to find that a judge would sentence based on a religion which matched his.  Yes, I know they aren't perfect, but I have worked in judges' chambers and I have witnessed enough to know that they really try to be "just".

I am certain this is what dad told me at the time. I do not know what the newspapers said about that matter--other than there was some outrage over the light sentence.
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Posted: 28 June 2007 04:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]   

   
 
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Emilie:I do not recall ever hearing that the judge was mormon, and the former Elder Shunn never said so. I also do not recall any backlash in the papers about the sentence.  I did hear the father interviewed.  He expressed gratitude to our justice system which did fool around before sentencing.

Emilie: I read a little further into William Shunn's story and came up with this link:http://www.shunn.net/terror/1996/02/chapter_29_i_heard_it_through.html
Part of the story is:
"Well, the next interesting—and rather chilling—bit of news was a snatch of gossip I heard from my father, which had been passed along to him by President Tuttle. I forget whether my father told me this in a letter or in a phone call, but he stressed that he was only passing it along to me because he was afraid that I was taking the whole bomb-threat experience too lightly and that I wouldn't treat my deliverance from bondage seriously enough unless I knew the whole story.
I must admit that I can't vouch in any way for the veracity of what my father told me. I forget exactly how he said the story came to President Tuttle's ears, but it seems most probable to me that Fred Harvey passed it along to him. How Fred Harvey might have come by this information remains a complete mystery. (I hate to admit the possibility, but I suppose it's also possible that my father made the story up with the sole intention of frightening me into sobriety. I don't like the idea, but it's possible.)
Okay, you're saying, so quit with the disclaimers already and spill the beans!
As you wish. Here goes.
According to my (at best) third-hand information, Judge Josiah Fether picked up the phone on the evening of February 25th with the intention of seeking advice from another judge—a friend of his who lived somewhere in eastern Canada. "I have a problem," said Judge Fether. "I need to sentence a young man who phoned a false bomb threat in on an airliner."
"That's easy," said this anonymous other judge, whom I will call Judge M. "As a deterrent to similar crimes, you need to sentence him to five years in prison. Precedents in similar cases make this clear."
"I haven't told you everything, though," Fether said. "The young man in question is a Mormon missionary. He was trying to prevent a fellow missionary from abandoning his calling."
"Well, that certainly changes things," Judge M said. "Fine him, and give him time served."
(Five years! The heart quails at the thought! Where would I be now if . . . ? No, it simply doesn't bear thinking about.)
You may have guessed the punchline to the story by now—that Judge M was a member of the Church.
Again, I simply have no idea how much credence to lend to this story. I mean, the prosecutors were only asking for a two-month sentence. Was I really in danger of receiving a jail term fully thirty times longer than what the prosecution recommended? Do I really have an anonymous judicial savior dwelling somewhere in the vast reaches of eastern Canada? If so, was he really a Mormon? What are the chances of that?
I don't know. The way in which my father warned me never to repeat the story tends to make me suspicious."
As I posted earlier, I was not aware of all the details, the dad just told me the judge was LDS.
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Posted: 28 June 2007 05:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]   

   
 
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hypatia: Emilie: I read a little further into William Shunn's story and came up with this link:http://www.shunn.net/terror/1996/02/chapter_29_i_heard_it_through.html


"Well, that certainly changes things," Judge M said. "Fine him, and give him time served."
(Five years! The heart quails at the thought! Where would I be now if . . . ? No, it simply doesn't bear thinking about.)
You may have guessed the punchline to the story by now—that Judge M was a member of the Church.
Again, I simply have no idea how much credence to lend to this story. I mean, the prosecutors were only asking for a two-month sentence. Was I really in danger of receiving a jail term fully thirty times longer than what the prosecution recommended? Do I really have an anonymous judicial savior dwelling somewhere in the vast reaches of eastern Canada? If so, was he really a Mormon? What are the chances of that?
I don't know. The way in which my father warned me never to repeat the story tends to make me suspicious."
As I posted earlier, I was not aware of all the details, the dad just told me the judge was LDS.

OH, hit me up the side of the head... I  just re-read the whole thing yesterday, including that passage, but totally forgot it and didn't recall that the judge's name was used and that there was a comment about the mysterious judge somewhere "down East"... Oops and Thanks.


   


Posted: 29 February 2016 07:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]   

   
 
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Emilie:
hypatia: Emilie: I read a little further into William Shunn's story and came up with this link:http://www.shunn.net/terror/1996/02/chapter_29_i_heard_it_through.html


"Well, that certainly changes things," Judge M said. "Fine him, and give him time served."
(Five years! The heart quails at the thought! Where would I be now if . . . ? No, it simply doesn't bear thinking about.)
You may have guessed the punchline to the story by now—that Judge M was a member of the Church.
Again, I simply have no idea how much credence to lend to this story. I mean, the prosecutors were only asking for a two-month sentence. Was I really in danger of receiving a jail term fully thirty times longer than what the prosecution recommended? Do I really have an anonymous judicial savior dwelling somewhere in the vast reaches of eastern Canada? If so, was he really a Mormon? What are the chances of that?
I don't know. The way in which my father warned me never to repeat the story tends to make me suspicious."
As I posted earlier, I was not aware of all the details, the dad just told me the judge was LDS.

OH, hit me up the side of the head... I  just re-read the whole thing yesterday, including that passage, but totally forgot it and didn't recall that the judge's name was used and that there was a comment about the mysterious judge somewhere "down East"... Oops and Thanks.
 
Hi, Emilie and Hypatia, et. al.--
 
I know this is a very old discussion thread, but I just stumbled across it and thought I might be able to clarify a couple of things.
 
First, I changed all the names in "Terror on Flight 789," so the judge's name here is not actually real. It's a matter of public record, however, that the judge in my case was named Anton Demong. A tried to interview him when I was working on the new, book-length version of my story, but I was never able to. He died in 2009:


http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/calgaryherald/obituary.aspx?n=anton-demong&pid=132230894


And in case you didn't know, the full-length memoir about my mission, The Accidental Terrorist, which I rewrote entirely from scratch, was published in November 2015, in case you're interested:

http://www.accidentalterrorist.com/order/ 
 
It is currently nominated for an Association for Mormon Letters Award, but I don't expect to win. 
 
Bill Shunn 


   


Posted: 29 February 2016 09:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]   

   
 
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Bill, welcome to PostMo! Emilie and Hypatia don't stop by here much anymore, probably for years. But I still recall reading about this. Thanks for stopping by and giving an update. I hope things are going well and that your book sells like crazy! Thanks for adding your experiences to the growing body of stories about being a member of the LDS church. 

   


Posted: 29 February 2016 11:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]   

   
 
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Thanks for the welcome! I figured my reply here was probably a long shot, but nevertheless I wanted to try to respond. 

   


Posted: 29 February 2016 04:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]   

   
 
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Thanks for the links, shunn. Sounds like something I'll enjoy reading. Hope you keep coming back here. 

   


Posted: 01 March 2016 11:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]   

   
 
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That was great I really liked it!!!
the Mission logic and jail experience was classic.
 
 


   


Posted: 01 March 2016 05:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]   

   
 
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Celestial Wedgie:
Bill, welcome to PostMo! Emilie and Hypatia don't stop by here much anymore, probably for years. But I still recall reading about this. Thanks for stopping by and giving an update. I hope things are going well and that your book sells like crazy! Thanks for adding your experiences to the growing body of stories about being a member of the LDS church.
oh, I still drop by and read from time to time, and still do come a'runnin' for help and support when TBM family stuff gets in my way. 
I downloaded Bill's new book and read the story again. Suggested it to a never-mo friend (who didn't get why I have difficulty disengaging after being inactive for decades). She loved the book and has a new understanding of some of the issues and the history of the early church. So there you go, a well told humourous story and history all in one.
 


   


Posted: 02 March 2016 08:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]   

   
 
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Bill, that was a great read! I'm a born and raised Calgarian, so I remember this well. I know the places you wrote about all too well and I probably know many of the individuals in your story. I was a full-on believer at the time, but being a returned missionary myself, something inside me understood why you had done it. It was good to have that feeling validated almost 30 years after the fact!
 
My main recollection of the entire episode is looking at the story in the Calgary Sun at work one day, and one of my co-workers saying "That's not a mormon missionary, that's what I call a MORON missionary!" He thought he was so clever... Well - this is one of the best missionary stories of all time, bar none. Nothing moronic about that. But my co-worker would not have understood that.
 
The mission home is long gone, moved to where the bishop's storehouse and abandoned cannery are now, but the court house is the same. Gosh, all the details... it was like I was there, and being a native here, I could picture most things accurately (although I've never been in the bowels of the remand centre or the court house).
 
Don't know if the believing wife would approve if I bought the book, however,  but thanks for putting it up!
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Posted: 02 March 2016 09:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]   

   
 
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I shared this with my teenage son who is preparing to serve a mission, figuring there isn't anything overtly anti for my TBM wife to object to, and it provides a nicely nonromanticized look at mission hierarchy and relationships. Plus it's just fun as hell to read.
 
He stayed up late reading it and didn't make it to seminary this morning. :P
 
Thanks for sharing it! Much appreciated. 


   


Posted: 02 March 2016 02:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]   

   
 
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That was the single most and best missionary experience I have ever heard about. Loved the story. 

   


            
 
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Endured a Visiting Teaching message to the bitter end  
Posted: 02 March 2016 03:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Interesting...
 
http://forum.newordermormon.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=46283
 
So my wife's visiting teacher dropped by unannounced the other night at 8:00 pm as I was helping the kids with homework and getting them ready for bed. My wife was out at the time, thank the gods, but this sister felt like she needed to give her lesson anyway because she "would feel anxiety if it didn't get done". Knowing what she meant and having experienced that anxiety, I stood there and took one for the team.
The lesson was on the proclamation and ended up being one continuous homophobic rant that ended in her complaining that her kids were exposed to Caitlyn Jenner because they watch the Kardashians together. Honestly. Not even I, a supporter of equal rights and therefore an apostate, would expose children to the Kardashians. But the most interesting part of the lesson/rant, apart from equating support for gay rights to giving a suicidal person a gun and encouraging them to pull the trigger, was the blatant revisionist history surrounding the proclamation. She claimed that the proclamation was revealed 20 years ago "before all this gay marriage and transsexual stuff was even a thing", therefore it was prophetic and true.
In a very kind and gentle way, I had to remind her that the Supreme Court of Hawaii ruled that the state constitution couldn't forbid gay marriage in 1993, and that there was a four year period where the legislature there was trying to figure out what to do about it before deciding on a referendum to amend the constitution. She had forgotten that DOMA was signed into law in 1996 as a direct result, and that the 1995 proclamation was not made in a vacuum. It was an honest to god testament of how the present biases even the recent past. I can easily see how things like the Section 87 was so quickly reinterpreted to be a prediction of the civil war.
 
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Posted: 02 March 2016 09:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Just curious... by "the other night" do you mean one of the last few nights of the month? Because that's when the majority of HT/VT visits get made.
 
You were kind and gentle with her. I applaud you for that. I may not have been as kind and gentle, especially when it came to homophobia or any LGBTQ+ phobia for that matter. 
 
 
ETA: I assumed it was you, but upon further consideration I have to wonder - were you just sharing the link? Are you "oliver" from the NOM site? Still, it's a good story.
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Posted: 02 March 2016 10:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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The Family a Proclamation to the World came out fully a year after The United Nations 1994, "Year of the Family". It was published almost a year and a half after Pope John Paul II's Letter to Families. The LDS church is shown yet again to be trailing behind the rest of the world. 

   


Posted: 02 March 2016 10:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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incawhite:
Interesting...
 
http://forum.newordermormon.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=46283
 
So my wife's visiting teacher dropped by unannounced the other night at 8:00 pm as I was helping the kids with homework and getting them ready for bed. My wife was out at the time, thank the gods, but this sister felt like she needed to give her lesson anyway because she "would feel anxiety if it didn't get done". Knowing what she meant and having experienced that anxiety, I stood there and took one for the team.
The lesson was on the proclamation and ended up being one continuous homophobic rant that ended in her complaining that her kids were exposed to Caitlyn Jenner because they watch the Kardashians together. Honestly. Not even I, a supporter of equal rights and therefore an apostate, would expose children to the Kardashians. But the most interesting part of the lesson/rant, apart from equating support for gay rights to giving a suicidal person a gun and encouraging them to pull the trigger, was the blatant revisionist history surrounding the proclamation. She claimed that the proclamation was revealed 20 years ago "before all this gay marriage and transsexual stuff was even a thing", therefore it was prophetic and true.
In a very kind and gentle way, I had to remind her that the Supreme Court of Hawaii ruled that the state constitution couldn't forbid gay marriage in 1993, and that there was a four year period where the legislature there was trying to figure out what to do about it before deciding on a referendum to amend the constitution. She had forgotten that DOMA was signed into law in 1996 as a direct result, and that the 1995 proclamation was not made in a vacuum. It was an honest to god testament of how the present biases even the recent past. I can easily see how things like the Section 87 was so quickly reinterpreted to be a prediction of the civil war.
 
 
 Well done. I liked the gentle reality check you gave her.


   


            
 
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I’m New - Just met with my Bishop - Not a good experiance  
Posted: 29 February 2016 10:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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tompixal
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Joined  2016-02-29
 
  
 
 
So here I am, after growing up as a TBM, serving a mission, marriage in the temple, and working at the Church Office Building.  I never thought I would ever be here, but after talking to my bishop yesterday about my issues with the church, it made me drift more away from the church.
It all started a few years ago when I was working at the church, I worked on church history content for LDS.org and found a few issues that troubled me. And it wasn't until I found out about the 1990 changes to the temple that made me rethink my life. 
I've been miserable at church for years and never knew why,  until now. After staying home on Sunday and soon found out that my happiness depends on what I want to be, not from what the bishop or leaders want.
My meeting with my bishop felt unloved from him, and he couldn't answer anything from what I placed on my shelf. He did answer about JS marrying 14-year olds, and said it was "Okay back then" and "He never had sex with them" The bishop also said that I 'don't know my scriptures' and that me supporting such groups, like Gay marriage, is not following God's rules. I also told him about the suicides from Gay Mormons and he didn't show any sadness or shock from it. He felt more like a machine, than a man.
So here I am, I have loads of stuff to say, but I would expect my bishop to kick me out if I do. Since my wife is still a TBM and I've told her my issues. I'm scared, worried and confused. But, I feel happier than ever before because I feel enlightened. 
-Thanks 
 Signature
- I took the Red Pill, opps.


   


Posted: 29 February 2016 10:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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victim
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Joined  2009-03-27
 
  
 
tompixal:
 
So here I am, after growing up as a TBM, serving a mission, marriage in the temple, and working at the Church Office Building.  I never thought I would ever be here, but after talking to my bishop yesterday about my issues with the church, it made me drift more away from the church.
It all started a few years ago when I was working at the church, I worked on church history content for LDS.org and found a few issues that troubled me. And it wasn't until I found out about the 1990 changes to the temple that made me rethink my life. 
I've been miserable at church for years and never knew why,  until now. After staying home on Sunday and soon found out that my happiness depends on what I want to be, not from what the bishop or leaders want.
My meeting with my bishop felt unloved from him, and he couldn't answer anything from what I placed on my shelf. He did answer about JS marrying 14-year olds, and said it was "Okay back then" and "He never had sex with them" The bishop also said that I 'don't know my scriptures' and that me supporting such groups, like Gay marriage, is not following God's rules. I also told him about the suicides from Gay Mormons and he didn't show any sadness or shock from it. He felt more like a machine, than a man.
So here I am, I have loads of stuff to say, but I would expect my bishop to kick me out if I do. Since my wife is still a TBM and I've told her my issues. I'm scared, worried and confused. But, I feel happier than ever before because I feel enlightened. 
-Thanks 
Yes, the eternal, never changing temple ceremony doesn't resemble smith's masonic version practiced in Nauvoo/Territorial Utah like it once did! Heaven fordid, if mormons pay attention, they will notice changes to smith's unchangeable version going on unabated for many years now! It's just more evidence of an ever evolving Con that has been tweaked again/again! Profit jo smith jr. himself opened the door wide with his 1833 Book of Commandants publication, supposedly a compilation of all of smith's revelations to date that had serious omissions/gaps that unfortunately for jo smith jr. revealed fraud! The omissios were actually incomprehensible - no first vision story/priesthood restoration revelations can be found in the Book of Commandmants! How can this be? How could anyone possibly forget a visit from God the Father/Jesus Christ, John the Baptist/Peter, James/John? How could he organize a church without priesthood authority? The answer is easy for an inquiring mind - these visitations never happened but where later plugged in/backdated into the 1834-1835 Doctrine & Covernants that completely changed, omitted/added to the Book of Commandments! David Whitmer, one of the three witnesses to the book of mormon was so outraged he called jo smith jr. a fallen profit/left the church! Additional research will reveal a comprehensive, well documented fraud! Good observation about your bishop - don't trust him - he'll throw you under the bus if it is advantageous for him to do so! 
 
Gay abuse is a black mark against mormonism - their treatment of adult gays, now compounded by an abusive posture/doctrine against innocent children by so-called mormon profits will drive many heretofore faithful members out of the church! I understand your fear/trepidation - be especially gentle dealing with your tbm wife - at this point in time, she needs a great deal of your love/ understanding! You will discover that the dark underbelly of mormonism is terribly vicious/unforgiving! Remember/keep this in your mind - it's not your fault that mormonism is a well documented fraud! victim     


   


Posted: 29 February 2016 11:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized
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Joined  2011-01-22
 
  
 
Welcome tompixal! Don't worry about the bishop, unless he knows you're posting here. This is a safe place with people at all stages of their journeys. 
 
I can't really offer any advice except to say that it gets better.
The bit about Joseph marrying 14 year old girls... when I told my dad that was the same answer I got -- that it was different back then and he didn't have sex with them. Actually, it wsan't different back then. The average marriage age in that part of the country was early 20s, not early teens! The data is available from US Census records. And the church admitted in their recent essay that many of Joseph's polygamous marriages may have been sexual. Add to this the personal testimony of Helen Mar Kimball (one of the 14 year olds), in which she said that had she known her marriage to Joseph was going to be anything more than a ceremony, she would not have given her consent! http://wivesofjosephsmith.org/
 
Go to mormonthink.com - it's a great resource and most of their information has cited sources. 
 
Again, welcome! 
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You’re like the Gandhi of postmo. - Lloyd Dobler


   


Posted: 29 February 2016 01:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Celestial Wedgie
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Joined  2010-10-03
 
  
 
Tompixal, glad to have you join us here. Hopefully you'll find a more welcoming, openly listening audience here than you found with the bishop.
 
There are just so many specific things that can trouble a believer. It's always hard to predict what topic will be the trigger for a specific person. It's telling, however, that all aspects of Mormonism--current policy, current teachings, past policy, past teachings, history, Book of Mormon historicity, Book of Mormon theology, Doctrine and Covenants chapters, moral failings of leaders, lack of moral leadership--seem equally flawed. That makes sense once a person accepts the possibility that it's all a fraud: Dig anywhere within the Mormon world and you'll find...fraud. The surface is all shiny and pretty, but dig down a few centimeters and the evidence of deception will be there.
 
So your bishop said marrying 14-year-olds used to be common? A person can check that (as mentioned above). Find 100 marriage certificates from that county in that year: what was the average age of the brides? And then--worse--what was the average age of the grooms? What was the average age difference? My prediction (and I'm prejudiced on this because I've seen it so often in Mormonism that even without checking I'm pretty sure that the bishop's off-the-cuff speculation is flat out wrong) is that you'll find out the bishop's claim misses the mark.
 
So pick any topic that interests you. Then dig into it a little bit. What I predict that you'll find is this: Mormonism is built on a foundation of deception.
 
Vent away, ask questions, tell us what you think, feel, and believe, and read all you want. We've been around a long time. It's interesting watching the individuals come in, heal, and move one. Despite the slow turnover the issues remain fairly constant.
 
You're not alone, Tompixal. Welcome to PostMormon.


   


Posted: 29 February 2016 03:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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DrW
Long Timer
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Joined  2009-01-12
 
  
 
Welcome, Tompixel.
 
More than 10,000 individuals have passed through this way station as registered members. Uncounted more have dropped by without sighning up.
 
The vast majority of members were somewhere along their journey out of the LDS Church to emotional and intellectual freedom and mental enlightenment.
 
Hope you will stick around to share your story and reveal what you learn. 


   


Posted: 29 February 2016 04:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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Winyan
Long Timer
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Joined  2007-10-31
 
  
 
Hi tompixal... Congratulations for speaking up. It takes guts. But the truth does set you free.
 
Looking forward to hearing how your journey goes. There is life after mormonism. And you're not alone.   


   


Posted: 29 February 2016 07:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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Quartersawn
Long Timer
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Joined  2009-12-10
 
  
 
Welcome Pixal. 
I too found the lack of moral character from a :prophet" quit disturbing. When reading D&C 132 you find out there are at least four criteria for taking plural wives, and Joseph failed on all of them.
1) Needs first wives approval. Emma knew of two of the 34+ wives.
2) Ten plural wives is plenty. 30+ for JS, and over 50 for BY, John Taylor had 11 when he was on a mission to England and told the people he had but one wife back home. 
3) They should be virgins. 11 of the women JS married were currently married, whose husbands JS conviently sent off on missions.
4) The purpose of taking extra wives was to raise up seed to the Lord. He had sex, or was supposed to have sex with them.
 
Furthermore, the aformentioned section of D&C was not made scripture untill around 1860. They were supposed to be living under the one man/one wife scripture previously given in the Book of Commandments 101:4.
And the laws of the land, and the law of lord never permitted taking other mens wives.
Big epoc fail in my book.
 
Glad you've started finding your way out.  Life will get better, the weight of the world slips off your shoulders and you can see the world in a whole new brighter, better light. 
 
Congratulations!!  
 Signature
Why would you consider a man a prophet whose morals are worse than your own? Having claimed to commune with deity, be visited by angels and receive revelations, should he not be held to a higher standard? —me


   


Posted: 29 February 2016 09:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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John E. Baker, III [was GraciesDaddy]
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Well... Shugah*... There are a LOT of what I refer to as the "Heavy Hitters" of Postmoron.org addressing your dilemma – Victim, Matter Unorganized, Celestial Wedgie, Dr. W, Wynan and Quartersawn.  There are MANY more who will support and direct you to a much more realistic and open resolution to what you are experiencing.  That is to say:  You are just beginning your journey... There are WAY more revelations for you to experience than what you have so far.
 
In other words:  "Fasten your seat belts... It's going to be a bumpy night!"† 
 
OK... That said:  You ain't seen nuthin' yet, hunney!  When it comes to protecting our own... THIS forum is the BEST!  We/they can even, gently and with the ultimate of compassion, point your DW into the realm of The Mo'org Ain't All It's Cracked Up To Be!
 
Meanwhile:  Your Bish is a mouthpiece.  He is doing nothing more than what he is conditioned to do!  He is not going to do anything other than what the COB tells him to do!  Hey... They ALL believe they will, someday, be a member of The Seventy or even The Twelve!  "Sympathy" for what you're enduring right now?  ForGET it!  Ain't gonna happen!
 
Here... You ARE Loved.  You ARE valued!
 
Namaste.
 
 
*  Southern, Redneck, Gay, Bitchy, Never-Mo, and really, REALLY pissed off in regard to what the MORON "church" does to so many decent people!
†  With deference to Betty Davis in "All About Eve."
 Signature
The above post is the perspective and experience of a Never-Mo offered in support of the members of PostMormon.org and should be treated as such.


   


Posted: 01 March 2016 03:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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incawhite
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Welcome tompixal!,
You are not alone!
 
 
 
 Signature
Book of Mormon fraudhttp://youtu.be/T7dFkl7EaHY
Priesthood Fraudhttps://youtu.be/Oq14o3hxsRk
About Stupidityhttps://youtu.be/wvVPdyYeaQU
Hitler’s ranthttps://youtu.be/9o3T112ivzE


   


Posted: 01 March 2016 04:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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Swearing Elder
Long Timer
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DrW:
Uncounted more have dropped by without sighning up.
 
 
Yes, the numbers, if we could get a true accounting, would be staggering. Yes, there are 10,000 registered on this site and how many more have come reading and lurking without signing up? And this is only one of the many sites not to mention the now countless groups (some private, some public) groups on Facebook.
 
Bottom line: Don't get discouraged, tompixal! Yes, it may be brutal for a bit. But you'll emerge in a much better place! Lots of us have been down the same road and we're here to journey it again with you.
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Palmetto PostMormons Chapter Page | Swearing Elders Blog


   


Posted: 01 March 2016 05:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
Avatar
Dovolente
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Joined  2008-03-06
 
  
 
tompixal:
...
So here I am, I have loads of stuff to say, but I would expect my bishop to kick me out if I do. Since my wife is still a TBM and I've told her my issues. I'm scared, worried and confused. But, I feel happier than ever before because I feel enlightened. 
-Thanks 
 
This is a huge challenge. My sympathies -- it is definitely a stressful, anxiety-laden situation all around.  There are quite a few members of the site who have been in the same boat with a TMB spouse. But everyone's particular circumstances are different, and whatever yours may be, you'll find some understanding and sympathetic folk here. :)
 
My best wishes for you in navigating whatever challenges lie ahead, and in further enlightment as you hold fast to your integrity and make new journeys of learning and growth. 


   


Posted: 01 March 2016 09:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]   

   
 
Avatar
tompixal
Newbie
Rank
Joined  2016-02-29
 
  
 
Wow, Thanks for the comments and support. More than what my Bishop could do. And all this time I thought ex-mo's were bad people? lol. I hope to share my other experiences soon. Anyways, thanks again and we'll see where I end up.
 Signature
- I took the Red Pill, opps.


   


Posted: 01 March 2016 09:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]   

   
 
Bruce A Holt
Jr. Member
RankRank
Joined  2014-04-03
 
  
 
tompixal:
 
So here I am, after growing up as a TBM, serving a mission, marriage in the temple, and working at the Church Office Building.  I never thought I would ever be here, but after talking to my bishop yesterday about my issues with the church, it made me drift more away from the church.
It all started a few years ago when I was working at the church, I worked on church history content for LDS.org and found a few issues that troubled me. And it wasn't until I found out about the 1990 changes to the temple that made me rethink my life. 
I've been miserable at church for years and never knew why,  until now. After staying home on Sunday and soon found out that my happiness depends on what I want to be, not from what the bishop or leaders want.
My meeting with my bishop felt unloved from him, and he couldn't answer anything from what I placed on my shelf. He did answer about JS marrying 14-year olds, and said it was "Okay back then" and "He never had sex with them" The bishop also said that I 'don't know my scriptures' and that me supporting such groups, like Gay marriage, is not following God's rules. I also told him about the suicides from Gay Mormons and he didn't show any sadness or shock from it. He felt more like a machine, than a man.
So here I am, I have loads of stuff to say, but I would expect my bishop to kick me out if I do. Since my wife is still a TBM and I've told her my issues. I'm scared, worried and confused. But, I feel happier than ever before because I feel enlightened. 
-Thanks 
 
First of all, welcome!
 
    My son was lead developer for lds.org for a while. I wonder if you knew him. His first and last names are the same as mine.
 
    I'm in the same boat. Best wishes! 
 Signature
Science is a way to call the bluff of those who only pretend to knowledge. If we’re true to its values, it can tell us when we’re being lied to. It provides a mid-course correction to our mistakes. - Carl Sagan


   


Posted: 01 March 2016 10:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]   

   
 
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Lloyd Dobler
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Joined  2009-07-27
 
  
 
You are enlightended man.  You are stepping into world where you can be authentic, you can now be yourself and I hope it feels great for you!  You deserve to feel great about yourself and your courage.  I consider leaving the church one of the great accomplishments of my life.
 
Personally, I'm very proud of what you are doing and you should be as well.
 
Welcome to postmo.  it really helped me. 
 Signature
Vindicated, I am selfish, I am wrong, I am right
I swear I’m right, swear I knew it all along
And I am flawed
but I am cleaning up so well
I am seeing in me now the things you swore, you saw yourself

Vindicated
Dashboard Confessionalhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8InUTSWWDVk


   


Posted: 01 March 2016 03:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]   

   
 
Avatar
MishMagnet
Long Timer
RankRankRankRankRank
Joined  2007-07-11
 
  
 
Hi and welcome! 
 
My tipping point was also with polygamy.  (I did not know about the polyandry until later.) 
 
It's amazing to hear some church members, with venom dripping from their mouths, talk about an individual who happens to be gay.  How little empathy, the actual hatred I have heard flowing out with their words.
 
This particular form of marriage is against God's will and against God's plan.  We have 7 billion on the planet, but God forbid a small percentage should be together without an egg meeting a sperm! 
 
BUT listen to the tone change when you bring up polygamy.   To me, a woman, I can't think of anything more unfair than being expected to give 100% of my love time and faithfulness to one man - and that man splitting his love, time and faithfullness with other women.  I give 100% and he gives me back 1/34th - in the case of Joseph Smith.
 
I went to Nauvoo at least 10 times.  Statues, paintings, films about Emma and Joseph, the great love story!  Hey, where are those other women?  Aren't they important?  You're going to tell me that as a 12th wife I'm not as important as the 1st?  This is Heavenly Father's Plan?  Hmm, it almost things there's shame in it!  Makes me think if we saw a statue of Joseph Smith and 34 women represented it might make some cogs turn.
 
Are you ashamed of the Gospel or not?  If not - lets have it then.  Lets know these womens names and their love stories and put them on an even level with Emma. 
 
Because I don't know about you but I didn't hear jack shit about anyone but Emma.  I knew JS was a polygamist - but nothing else. 
 
When I ran into the fact that he didn't have his first wife's consent - that was a fatal blow.  After that it was down the rabbit hole.  Polygamy might have been my issue - but that was only the tip of the ice burg. 
 
It really gets me that Mormons, the group that challenged traditional marriage MORE THAN ANY OTHER GROUP IN AMERICA - to the point that the government was willing to seize their property and posessions if they didnt renouce it - a short time later has the gall to tell ANYONE else how they can handle marriage. 
 
A perfect example of  "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." 
 
Renounce it, Church!  Say what most of us have found out.  Joseph Smith made up polygamy and it damaged generations of our sisters.  It damages them today in communities like Hilldale, UT.  Those women would not find themselves in the situation they are in if it weren't for Joseph Smith.   
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The Talk  
Posted: 28 February 2016 10:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
waivering
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Well, it happened. My wife asked me what I was thinking about that was bothering me and I tried to cautiously tell her my concerns about the church. Life has been a slow descent into hell ever since then. I tried to talk to her about my concerns, calmly and rationally ( I'm too close to the situation to know if I was either of those). I tried to talk with her to explore my concerns, hoping she could talk me through it. 

I told her that I was concerned about Joseph's polyandry and polygamy to young girls. My wife's direct ancestor is one of the 14 year olds Joseph married. My wife shared her testimony that that girl stayed faithful to the church her whole life and the girl bore her testimony to the truthfulness of the gospel all her life.

There was much crying, and despair over me "not meaning it" when we were sealed in the SLC temple. It got worse from there.

We already have had a strained marriage for years now and things are getting worse. Today my 15 year old had an emotional breakdown over "the contention in the home". Specifically telling my wife that he was tired of her domineering over me all the time.

She left the house in tears and I ended up taking the  rest of the kids to church (where I'm writing this now on my phone, evil apostate that I am).

She's convinced that I want to destroy our family and that it's been slowly happening for years now. That the desire of a few of our kids to not go to church or the temple is Satan working through me to destroy our chances for eternal salvation and exaltation. Even though I've never voiced my concerns to anyone, and I read from the book of Mormon to the kids every day, and say prayers with all of them collectively and individually every day and night.

And of course, blasting in my mind is "no success can compensate for failure in the home". 

I really don't know what to do now. How can I be open about my beliefs, let my kids make an informed decision about their own activity with the church, without adding to my wife's belief that I'm Satan's tool? 

Does anyone have any similar experience they can share? 

   


Posted: 28 February 2016 11:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Jon Marshall
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Sent you a Private Message. Continue to work on your spiritual self. Don't degrade your wife's feelings or faith. Support her. Let your kids decide. Especially if they are in seminary or old enough to start understanding for themselves. Tell them to ask questions and if they don't like the answers, have them research on their own.
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Posted: 28 February 2016 12:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Elder OldDog
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Perhaps some of the travail has to do with whom we allow to define what constitutes "success in the home."  
 
Obviously the church wants it to be one specific way, involving one of their temples, men in white shirts and ties and women with their shoulders covered, and big smiles on everyone's faces.  ...and drinking the kool-aide by the gallon.
 
Frankly, I think it is child abuse to raise up kids to be mormons.  
 
But backing it up a bit, raising kids is all about preparing them to make their own ways in the world.   Maybe a hundred years ago parents were the principle instruments in preparing their kids to go out into the world, but that has sure changed.  Maybe from about the mid-1980s parents have been raising kids who ended up in careers that the parents had never heard of.
 
I married a BYU bride; engaged within three months of getting home from the mission and married five months later, with the first kid born 13 months later.  Wheeee!  I thought that 'staying mormon' despite not believing in the mormon ghawd wouldn't be all that hard.  I thought that raising kids in the mormon church was a good way to go; you know, all those wholesome activities...
 
We lasted seven years.  She's still TBM; of our three BICs, two are out, one, the oldest, is TBM, mostly.  We can't talk about it because what each of us has  to say is not acceptable to the other.  So we talk about the weather...
 
My BYU bride and I were at a grandchild's HS graduation a few years ago.  I hadn't seen her since the early 80s.  She was a complete stranger to me.  At the dinner afterwards I began recognizing some of her mannerisms and I got chills, imagining what it would have been like to have stayed together "for the children."
 
I am serious about it being 'child abuse' to raise kids to be TBMs.
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Posted: 28 February 2016 07:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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DrW
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DW and I had "the talk" some time ago. As I have described before, I arranged to have it on a long drive in the country so there would be no walking out until things wer resolved. I told her that, as a matter of personal integrity, I could no longer be associated with the Mormon Church. The hardest part was telling her why, because she was unaware of many sordid facts about Church history.
 
She knew that I would never lie to her or make things up. Nonetheless, many of the things I told her came as a shock. She really had no logical or factual grounds on which to support the Church in all this. I told her that I loved her and the family and would support her if she wanted to continue attending. We agreed the kids could make up their own minds. 
 
We have been able to work things out and have been very happy as an NOM/agnostic couple. It was always "Family First - no matter what" with us, and so that was a good place to start. 
 
Anyone who challenged me on my decision in the early days would be immediately called to defend the Church regarding its sordid, adultrous, polygamous and racist past - a past that many of them knew little about. If they tried to do so, I would suggest that they think about their own personal integrity in supporting such an organization as the LDS Church, given that what I had told them was true (and it was).   Once the word got around as to how the conversation would go, the subject just didn't come up - with family or with friends.
 
Peace and happiness ensued. 
 
Best wishes and good luck to you.  


   


Posted: 28 February 2016 07:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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LostInParadise
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Waivering:
 
A lot of what you're going through is all very fresh in my mind from the past few months. Some of the things that are helping in my marriage:
-we both have reaffirmed (several times) our commitment to our marriage and desire to make it work regardless of the religious paths we choose.
-I have reassured her over and over that I was sincere when we got married in the temple, and was being honest with her then, and the reason I'm sharing religious doubts now is that I'm still being honest. I try to be honest and open, and try not to be offended when she calls me a liar (which might happen over  any answer to any question, from whether I read a talk to what I had for breakfast to whether I believe in the priesthood).
-I still go to church, have family scripures/prayer, and do other church things that I'm either comfortable with or (more commonly) am willing to put up with.
-I give her a lot more gifts than usual. Seriously. 
-We increased the frequency of dates and started working out together at the gym a couple times a week. 
-We've done a couple weekends away from the kids.
-We talk things out (we used to just pretty much not talk for a few hours or a day until we weren't mad anymore. Now we have about an argument a week that gets pretty intense sometimes and lasts a good hour. The frequency had fortunately slowed lately).
-Been working on our intimacy. Back rubs and holding hands have become a little more common than they had been the last few years. We started watching movies together again.
 
I guess the short version is: talk out the church stuff, work on the other parts of your marriage, and be patient and understanding. You kind of have to prove yourself to make it work. It's not fair, but it's hopefully worth it! 
 
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Posted: 29 February 2016 07:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
peace out
Long Timer
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Joined  2010-06-02
 
  
 
LostInParadise:
Waivering:
 
A lot of what you're going through is all very fresh in my mind from the past few months. Some of the things that are helping in my marriage:
-we both have reaffirmed (several times) our commitment to our marriage and desire to make it work regardless of the religious paths we choose.
-I have reassured her over and over that I was sincere when we got married in the temple, and was being honest with her then, and the reason I'm sharing religious doubts now is that I'm still being honest. I try to be honest and open, and try not to be offended when she calls me a liar (which might happen over  any answer to any question, from whether I read a talk to what I had for breakfast to whether I believe in the priesthood).
-I still go to church, have family scripures/prayer, and do other church things that I'm either comfortable with or (more commonly) am willing to put up with.
-I give her a lot more gifts than usual. Seriously. 
-We increased the frequency of dates and started working out together at the gym a couple times a week. 
-We've done a couple weekends away from the kids.
-We talk things out (we used to just pretty much not talk for a few hours or a day until we weren't mad anymore. Now we have about an argument a week that gets pretty intense sometimes and lasts a good hour. The frequency had fortunately slowed lately).
-Been working on our intimacy. Back rubs and holding hands have become a little more common than they had been the last few years. We started watching movies together again.
 
I guess the short version is: talk out the church stuff, work on the other parts of your marriage, and be patient and understanding. You kind of have to prove yourself to make it work. It's not fair, but it's hopefully worth it! 
 
 
I could not agree more
I think this is good advice


   


Posted: 29 February 2016 04:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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Winyan
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Joined  2007-10-31
 
  
 
Hang in there, waivering. Spouses need to be reassured, a lot, that's its mormonism being rejected and not them. 

   


Posted: 01 March 2016 09:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
Bruce A Holt
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Elder OldDog:
Perhaps some of the travail has to do with whom we allow to define what constitutes "success in the home."  
 
Obviously the church wants it to be one specific way, involving one of their temples, men in white shirts and ties and women with their shoulders covered, and big smiles on everyone's faces.  ...and drinking the kool-aide by the gallon.
 
Frankly, I think it is child abuse to raise up kids to be mormons.  
 
But backing it up a bit, raising kids is all about preparing them to make their own ways in the world.   Maybe a hundred years ago parents were the principle instruments in preparing their kids to go out into the world, but that has sure changed.  Maybe from about the mid-1980s parents have been raising kids who ended up in careers that the parents had never heard of.
 
I married a BYU bride; engaged within three months of getting home from the mission and married five months later, with the first kid born 13 months later.  Wheeee!  I thought that 'staying mormon' despite not believing in the mormon ghawd wouldn't be all that hard.  I thought that raising kids in the mormon church was a good way to go; you know, all those wholesome activities...
 
We lasted seven years.  She's still TBM; of our three BICs, two are out, one, the oldest, is TBM, mostly.  We can't talk about it because what each of us has  to say is not acceptable to the other.  So we talk about the weather...
 
My BYU bride and I were at a grandchild's HS graduation a few years ago.  I hadn't seen her since the early 80s.  She was a complete stranger to me.  At the dinner afterwards I began recognizing some of her mannerisms and I got chills, imagining what it would have been like to have stayed together "for the children."
 
I am serious about it being 'child abuse' to raise kids to be TBMs.
 
 My ex is known for her generosity and kindness. She has a great external reputation.
 
In reality, it was a different story. I'm still not sure how her reputation has held up over the years because she treats her current husband in similar fashion to the way she treated me.
 
She's emotionally and verbally abusive. While I was married to her I couldn't do anything right. She took issue with everything. It had to be done her way, right or wrong. If I didn't follow her wishes, I paid for it on.the.spot. There was never any "let's talk later." It was on.the.spot.
 
In front of the children. In front of family. in front of friends. In front of the public. As soon as I did something different than what she thought should be, I heard about it on.the.spot.
 
(I think I made my point  ) 
 
After 12 years we divorced. Best decision of my life! As adults, my children see their mother somewhat for what she is but they can still be blind. All in all, my children fared as well as I could have hoped and maybe a little better.
 
I am absolutely positive that had I stayed, things would have been much worse.
 
Like maybe a suicide.
 
Or, better yet, a homicide.
 
(I hope you see the sarcasm...actually a psychiatrist I was seeing told me those were two choices I was facing if I continued in the marriage...but that's another story)
 
The bottom line is that I agree that raising children in TSCC is child abuse. Their viewpoints are skewed and screwed and  it's sad to me to see my own children impacted.
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Posted: 02 March 2016 10:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
waivering
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Things have been improving, though I still don't feel I can really be open with my evolving beliefs. I am never disparing or unkind about my wife's beliefs. But I still can't share my own openly.
 
Regarding the comments about divorce, I don't think it will come to that. But if it did, I would feel completely lost. Running through my head is the "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts permitted divorce. But in the beginning it was not so". Or, "he that marries her that is divorced commits adultery".
 
What is everyone's take on this Christian viewpoint?


   


Posted: 02 March 2016 10:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
peace out
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waivering:
Things have been improving, though I still don't feel I can really be open with my evolving beliefs. I am never disparing or unkind about my wife's beliefs. But I still can't share my own openly.
 
Regarding the comments about divorce, I don't think it will come to that. But if it did, I would feel completely lost. Running through my head is the "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts permitted divorce. But in the beginning it was not so". Or, "he that marries her that is divorced commits adultery".
 
What is everyone's take on this Christian viewpoint?
I will be concise in my answer. Those statements about divorce are a bunch of crap.There has always been divorce there will always be divorce it's just part of the human condition anything else is not realistic. If God made you he owns what he made.How unreasonable to make a creation and make it flawed and then be pissed off at the creation when it does not perform up to the standard that you did not create it to meet. It's like beating your dog because it can't pull the load intended for a horse. FYI Brigham used to make money granting divorces to early settlers. It happened all the time. Brigham young was even divorced at least once. You have been fed a line of crap. Hope that makes you feel a little better
 
 


   


Posted: 02 March 2016 01:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized
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waivering:
Things have been improving, though I still don't feel I can really be open with my evolving beliefs. I am never disparing or unkind about my wife's beliefs. But I still can't share my own openly.
 
Regarding the comments about divorce, I don't think it will come to that. But if it did, I would feel completely lost. Running through my head is the "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts permitted divorce. But in the beginning it was not so". Or, "he that marries her that is divorced commits adultery".
 
What is everyone's take on this Christian viewpoint?
 
Who knows what the Christian viewpoint is? The bible says no to divorce, but most Christian churches allow it. Even the Catholics grudgingly allow it. I was divorced. I re-married a divorcée. So we're committing adultery according to the Bible, yet the LDS church was more than happy to grant us a temple sealing (we had a civil marriage first). I'm a polygamist in that I'm still sealed to my ex. She has re-married but hasn't been sealed to the dude. My wife had to get the sealing to her ex annulled. But the years between our civil marriage and our temple sealing? Were we committing adultery? Yes, according to a literal interpretation of the Bible but no, according to the LDS church.
 
Now, other stuff... When I first discovered that the LDS church was a fraud, I committed to myself that I would remain Christian. This lasted about a year. Don't be surprised if you go down that road as well. I think the LDS church makes it close to impossible for people to leave the church and remain Christian. It happens, but I'd venture to say that many if not most people on this forum are atheists, agnostics or deists. I eventually found myself identifying as deist - I believe in a creator, but I reject religiosity. For instance, I don't believe that the creator answers the call for lost keys, just as he/she/it doesn't answer the call of a person being raped or murdered. In other words, I believe that whatever creative force created us/the world does not cause famine, plagues or pestilence but at the same time does not prevent them either; does not bless or curse. But that's just me!
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Author: Winyan 


 Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series March 6th 2 PM- MORONI AND THE SWASTIKA
Author: skeptic 2 123  
Posted: 03-01-2016 07:05 PM
Author: Jammerwoch 


 I’m New - Just met with my Bishop - Not a good experiance
Author: tompixal 14 494  
Posted: 03-01-2016 03:46 PM
Author: MishMagnet 


 And Still He Lingers
Author: Denker 2 300  
Posted: 03-01-2016 07:19 AM
Author: Celestial Wedgie 


 The Little Factory
Author: Sunbeep 5 537  
Posted: 03-01-2016 07:16 AM
Author: Celestial Wedgie 


 Ex-ing gay couples?
Author: jellybean 8 383  
Posted: 02-29-2016 05:53 PM
Author: tab 


 Mormonism is basically a religion about sex
Author: CorbinBrodie 7 458  
Posted: 02-29-2016 07:49 AM
Author: victim 


 Growing up Gay and Mormon
Author: CorbinBrodie 2 208  
Posted: 02-28-2016 04:21 PM
Author: CorbinBrodie 


 Life after church
Author: Kevin2 24 819  
Posted: 02-28-2016 03:11 PM
Author: Celestial Wedgie 


 New movie “The Witch” now in theaters is a creepy but interesting movie re: religion
Author: NotAnymore 2 174  
Posted: 02-27-2016 07:13 PM
Author: Strong Free & Thankful 


 St. Judas the Traitor 1st Ward - Meetup - Sunday, February 28th, 10:00am at Harmons (Draper, UT) - ***New photo at bottom of thread***   ( 1 2 3)
Author: BITE ME 93 17286  
Posted: 02-27-2016 07:03 AM
Author: BITE ME 


 If We Helped To Create It, Don’t We Have A Moral Obligation To Correct It?  FLDS Body Guard
Author: Strong Free & Thankful 0 183  
Posted: 02-26-2016 06:13 PM
Author: Strong Free & Thankful 


 Your Not Alone- Radio West- Living life without religious influence
Author: skeptic 1 145  
Posted: 02-26-2016 10:19 AM
Author: Celestial Wedgie 


 Porn, Good or Bad?
Author: Denker 11 579  
Posted: 02-26-2016 09:17 AM
Author: Tessa 


 Interesting article: Warren Jeffs’ bodyguard breaks his silence (link)
Author: Matter Unorganized 0 282  
Posted: 02-26-2016 06:17 AM
Author: Matter Unorganized 


 It’s a Beautiful Day!
Author: son of perdition 2 221  
Posted: 02-25-2016 03:00 PM
Author: son of perdition 


 Joseph Smith Was Not The Only One Whom The Religious Have Annointed—Many Wives—Had The Innocent Killed
Author: Strong Free & Thankful 4 352  
Posted: 02-25-2016 12:58 PM
Author: Strong Free & Thankful 


 Runnells/CES
Author: My Turn 11 692  
Posted: 02-25-2016 08:29 AM
Author: Celestial Wedgie 


 It Just Keeps Getting Better for the FLDS (link)
Author: Matter Unorganized 7 370  
Posted: 02-25-2016 05:46 AM
Author: former victim 


 Do You Know Anyone Who Is Developing A Death Wish Because The Next Life Is So Wonderful?
Author: Strong Free & Thankful 15 756  
Posted: 02-23-2016 10:58 AM
Author: Strong Free & Thankful 


 Revised Articles of Faith
Author: Matter Unorganized 25 1126  
Posted: 02-22-2016 08:37 PM
Author: Winyan 


 Dedication Recommend Needed
Author: Denker 4 456  
Posted: 02-22-2016 03:08 PM
Author: LostInParadise 


 G.A. accused of sexual assault (link)
Author: Matter Unorganized 15 1137  
Posted: 02-22-2016 01:25 PM
Author: Brad (ZeeZrom) 


 the temperature of your caffeine
Author: Kevin2 10 461  
Posted: 02-22-2016 10:30 AM
Author: Matter Unorganized 


 Not Angry, A little confused, and a lot scared
Author: waivering 20 925  
Posted: 02-22-2016 09:03 AM
Author: peace out 


 Ghawd is anti-immigration?
Author: LostInParadise 1 173  
Posted: 02-22-2016 05:39 AM
Author: Hank 


 Mickelsen’s “Dirty Linen”
Author: antipsicótica 1 290  
Posted: 02-22-2016 05:18 AM
Author: Matter Unorganized 

 

  
   

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Elder OldDog
LostInParadise
Logged in: 2
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Logged in anonymous: 0



(Joined in last 24 hours) 
Total members: 10206 


Elder Bill Shunn... link to a great true story
by Rmyth
The Talk
by Matter Unorganized
Endured a Visiting Teaching message to the bitter end
by Winyan
Trump ?
by Winyan
Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series March 6th 2 PM- MORONI AND THE SWASTIKA
by Jammerwoch
I'm New - Just met with my Bishop - Not a good experiance
by MishMagnet
And Still He Lingers
by Celestial Wedgie
The Little Factory
by Celestial Wedgie
Ex-ing gay couples?
by tab
Mormonism is basically a religion about sex
by victim
Growing up Gay and Mormon
by CorbinBrodie
Life after church
by Celestial Wedgie
New movie "The Witch" now in theaters is a creepy but interesting movie re: religion
by Strong Free & Thankful
St. Judas the Traitor 1st Ward - Meetup - Sunday, February 28th, 10:00am at Harmons (Draper, UT) - ***New photo at bottom of thread***
by BITE ME
If We Helped To Create It, Don't We Have A Moral Obligation To Correct It? FLDS Body Guard
by Strong Free & Thankful
Your Not Alone- Radio West- Living life without religious influence
by Celestial Wedgie
Porn, Good or Bad?
by Tessa
Interesting article: Warren Jeffs' bodyguard breaks his silence (link)
by Matter Unorganized
It's a Beautiful Day!
by son of perdition
Joseph Smith Was Not The Only One Whom The Religious Have Annointed--Many Wives--Had The Innocent Killed
by Strong Free & Thankful 

   http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/discussions/viewforum/5/




 





2015 Conference
 "LEAVING A LEGACY"
 October 16-18
 Doubletree Suites
 SLC, Utah





















 


 
Financial Report for 2011 to Date

 
Financial Report for 2010 to Date

 
Financial Report for 2009

 
Twin Falls Newspaper Article

 
Twin Falls Billboard

 
Financial Report for 2009 to Date





 
The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
 [Sound Thinking]
 
Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
 [Peep Stone!]
 
Native American DNA
 [Post-Mormon Mag.]



 
  SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (3/6)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
  Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series- March 6th, 2016 Author Dave Nelson
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
  Open House Meetup: 3/19/16
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
  Train ride and picnic Meetup: 2/27/16
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series February 7th, 2016- Joe Rawlins
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Super Bowl Party (Feb 7)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Jan 10th, 2016-Southern Utah PostMormons will present an outstanding lecture combo
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 New Year's Eve Party
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (1/3)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (12/6)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Southern Utah Post Mormon Association to meet December 6th at the Red Lion in St. George
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 Christmas Party ~ Diamond Head Area
 [Oahu Post Mormon ...] 




Book of Mormon Tories
by Chris Sexton 
Why I am a Better Mother
by antipsicótica 
 Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by Barney 
Resignation Letter to My Family
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
former victim

The Book of Mormon Musical comes to South Carolina!
Swearing Elder

Resignation Letter to My Family
INRETROSPECT

Resignation Letter to My Family
oneanother

Utah County CALM meetup for November
BlackSheep2

FACEBOOK INFO
Crissy

FACEBOOK INFO
Barn

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
Starfleet

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
alvie

Why I am a Better Mother
by aworkinprogress 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
exmoinaz

SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
owned

The Mormon Mask
by Born Free 
Las Vegas Meetup--Jazz in the Park Saturday May 10 6:30PM
onendagus

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Resignation Letter to My Family
Hbush1987

General Non-Conference: Palmetto State Session
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The Community Forum
## Of Mormons, Postmormons, and the Canyon Between
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##Why Mormons Can’t Understand the Pain of Being Postmormon
## The Lamanite Issue is Not So Much a Matter of Doctrine as it is a Matter of Credibility
## PR Damage Control Team Responds to BoM changes
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## Why People Leave the Church:The VIDEO
## A Recap of Post-Mormon History
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Post-Mormon Magazine
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Elder OldDog
LostInParadise
 Logged in: 2
 Not logged in: 64
 Logged in anonymous: 0




(Joined in last 24 hours)
 
Total members: 10206 

   
 
Elder Bill Shunn... link to a great true story
by Rmyth
The Talk
by Matter Unorganized
Endured a Visiting Teaching message to the bitter end
by Winyan
Trump ?
by Winyan
Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series March 6th 2 PM- MORONI AND THE SWASTIKA
by Jammerwoch
I'm New - Just met with my Bishop - Not a good experiance
by MishMagnet
And Still He Lingers
by Celestial Wedgie
The Little Factory
by Celestial Wedgie
Ex-ing gay couples?
by tab
Mormonism is basically a religion about sex
by victim
Growing up Gay and Mormon
by CorbinBrodie
Life after church
by Celestial Wedgie
New movie "The Witch" now in theaters is a creepy but interesting movie re: religion
by Strong Free & Thankful
St. Judas the Traitor 1st Ward - Meetup - Sunday, February 28th, 10:00am at Harmons (Draper, UT) - ***New photo at bottom of thread***
by BITE ME
If We Helped To Create It, Don't We Have A Moral Obligation To Correct It? FLDS Body Guard
by Strong Free & Thankful
Your Not Alone- Radio West- Living life without religious influence
by Celestial Wedgie
Porn, Good or Bad?
by Tessa
Interesting article: Warren Jeffs' bodyguard breaks his silence (link)
by Matter Unorganized
It's a Beautiful Day!
by son of perdition
Joseph Smith Was Not The Only One Whom The Religious Have Annointed--Many Wives--Had The Innocent Killed
by Strong Free & Thankful

 http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/home




 





2015 Conference
 "LEAVING A LEGACY"
 October 16-18
 Doubletree Suites
 SLC, Utah





















 


 
Financial Report for 2011 to Date

 
Financial Report for 2010 to Date

 
Financial Report for 2009

 
Twin Falls Newspaper Article

 
Twin Falls Billboard

 
Financial Report for 2009 to Date





 
The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
 [Sound Thinking]
 
Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
 [Peep Stone!]
 
Native American DNA
 [Post-Mormon Mag.]



 
  SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (3/6)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
  Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series- March 6th, 2016 Author Dave Nelson
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
  Open House Meetup: 3/19/16
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
  Train ride and picnic Meetup: 2/27/16
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series February 7th, 2016- Joe Rawlins
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Super Bowl Party (Feb 7)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Jan 10th, 2016-Southern Utah PostMormons will present an outstanding lecture combo
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 New Year's Eve Party
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (1/3)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (12/6)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Southern Utah Post Mormon Association to meet December 6th at the Red Lion in St. George
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 Christmas Party ~ Diamond Head Area
 [Oahu Post Mormon ...] 




Book of Mormon Tories
by Chris Sexton 
Why I am a Better Mother
by antipsicótica 
 Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by Barney 
Resignation Letter to My Family
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
former victim

The Book of Mormon Musical comes to South Carolina!
Swearing Elder

Resignation Letter to My Family
INRETROSPECT

Resignation Letter to My Family
oneanother

Utah County CALM meetup for November
BlackSheep2

FACEBOOK INFO
Crissy

FACEBOOK INFO
Barn

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
Starfleet

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
alvie

Why I am a Better Mother
by aworkinprogress 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
exmoinaz

SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
owned

The Mormon Mask
by Born Free 
Las Vegas Meetup--Jazz in the Park Saturday May 10 6:30PM
onendagus

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Resignation Letter to My Family
Hbush1987

General Non-Conference: Palmetto State Session
Swearing Elder



 

       
   

  

Home



Our Community
























































































































































Our Library



















Our Exit Stories
 

Member Options














     

    
 


  


 
 Introduction
 For New Visitors
 Mission Statement
 The Best of PostMormon.org
 























  
 


 
 


 
 


 
 


 
 
 


The mission of PostMormon.org is to provide and maintain systems that facilitate the growth and development of a safe and supportive community for those who leave or are considering leaving the Mormon Church.

Welcome home!











































    
  
 


Our next project
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Elder OldDog
LostInParadise
 Logged in: 2
 Not logged in: 64
 Logged in anonymous: 0




(Joined in last 24 hours)
 
Total members: 10206 

   
 
Elder Bill Shunn... link to a great true story
by Rmyth
The Talk
by Matter Unorganized
Endured a Visiting Teaching message to the bitter end
by Winyan
Trump ?
by Winyan
Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series March 6th 2 PM- MORONI AND THE SWASTIKA
by Jammerwoch
I'm New - Just met with my Bishop - Not a good experiance
by MishMagnet
And Still He Lingers
by Celestial Wedgie
The Little Factory
by Celestial Wedgie
Ex-ing gay couples?
by tab
Mormonism is basically a religion about sex
by victim
Growing up Gay and Mormon
by CorbinBrodie
Life after church
by Celestial Wedgie
New movie "The Witch" now in theaters is a creepy but interesting movie re: religion
by Strong Free & Thankful
St. Judas the Traitor 1st Ward - Meetup - Sunday, February 28th, 10:00am at Harmons (Draper, UT) - ***New photo at bottom of thread***
by BITE ME
If We Helped To Create It, Don't We Have A Moral Obligation To Correct It? FLDS Body Guard
by Strong Free & Thankful
Your Not Alone- Radio West- Living life without religious influence
by Celestial Wedgie
Porn, Good or Bad?
by Tessa
Interesting article: Warren Jeffs' bodyguard breaks his silence (link)
by Matter Unorganized
It's a Beautiful Day!
by son of perdition
Joseph Smith Was Not The Only One Whom The Religious Have Annointed--Many Wives--Had The Innocent Killed
by Strong Free & Thankful

 http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/home




 





2015 Conference
 "LEAVING A LEGACY"
 October 16-18
 Doubletree Suites
 SLC, Utah





















 


 
Financial Report for 2011 to Date

 
Financial Report for 2010 to Date

 
Financial Report for 2009

 
Twin Falls Newspaper Article

 
Twin Falls Billboard

 
Financial Report for 2009 to Date





 
The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
 [Sound Thinking]
 
Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
 [Peep Stone!]
 
Native American DNA
 [Post-Mormon Mag.]



 
  SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (3/6)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
  Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series- March 6th, 2016 Author Dave Nelson
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
  Open House Meetup: 3/19/16
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
  Train ride and picnic Meetup: 2/27/16
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series February 7th, 2016- Joe Rawlins
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Super Bowl Party (Feb 7)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Jan 10th, 2016-Southern Utah PostMormons will present an outstanding lecture combo
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 New Year's Eve Party
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (1/3)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (12/6)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Southern Utah Post Mormon Association to meet December 6th at the Red Lion in St. George
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 Christmas Party ~ Diamond Head Area
 [Oahu Post Mormon ...] 




Book of Mormon Tories
by Chris Sexton 
Why I am a Better Mother
by antipsicótica 
 Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by Barney 
Resignation Letter to My Family
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
former victim

The Book of Mormon Musical comes to South Carolina!
Swearing Elder

Resignation Letter to My Family
INRETROSPECT

Resignation Letter to My Family
oneanother

Utah County CALM meetup for November
BlackSheep2

FACEBOOK INFO
Crissy

FACEBOOK INFO
Barn

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
Starfleet

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
alvie

Why I am a Better Mother
by aworkinprogress 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
exmoinaz

SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
owned

The Mormon Mask
by Born Free 
Las Vegas Meetup--Jazz in the Park Saturday May 10 6:30PM
onendagus

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Resignation Letter to My Family
Hbush1987

General Non-Conference: Palmetto State Session
Swearing Elder



 

       
   

  

Home



Our Community
























































































































































Our Library



















Our Exit Stories
 

Member Options














     

    
 


  


 
 Introduction
 For New Visitors
 Mission Statement
 The Best of PostMormon.org
 























    
 

Click the above icon to go to The Community Discussion Forum, which is the most active area on this website. New members are encouraged to jump in and participate in the discussions. As you do, our House Rules ask that you remain courteous and respectful of others.
  
 
 
Click the above icon to visit our World Map where you can connect with other Post-Mormons in your area. If your part of the world doesn't have a map pin, please consider starting a chapter or becoming an official PostMo' contact person for your area. To find out how, click here and follow the instructions.
  
 
 
Clicking this icon will take you to a page in our Post-Mormon Scrapbook, that lists personal accounts of people who have left Mormonism. Many new members love reading these accounts because it helps them realize that there really are others out there who understand, and can relate to their experience.
  
 
 
The Post-Mormon Community relys on donations from people like you to continue its public awareness program. Whether you can contribute $5, $5,000, or more, you are helping us reach out to others like you, but who still think they are all alone. The Post-Mormon Community is a 501(c)(3) tax exempt organization.
  
  
  


















































    
  
 


Our next project
will be announced soon.

Tax exempt status.
 




Elder OldDog
LostInParadise
 Logged in: 2
 Not logged in: 64
 Logged in anonymous: 0




(Joined in last 24 hours)
 
Total members: 10206 

   
 
Elder Bill Shunn... link to a great true story
by Rmyth
The Talk
by Matter Unorganized
Endured a Visiting Teaching message to the bitter end
by Winyan
Trump ?
by Winyan
Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series March 6th 2 PM- MORONI AND THE SWASTIKA
by Jammerwoch
I'm New - Just met with my Bishop - Not a good experiance
by MishMagnet
And Still He Lingers
by Celestial Wedgie
The Little Factory
by Celestial Wedgie
Ex-ing gay couples?
by tab
Mormonism is basically a religion about sex
by victim
Growing up Gay and Mormon
by CorbinBrodie
Life after church
by Celestial Wedgie
New movie "The Witch" now in theaters is a creepy but interesting movie re: religion
by Strong Free & Thankful
St. Judas the Traitor 1st Ward - Meetup - Sunday, February 28th, 10:00am at Harmons (Draper, UT) - ***New photo at bottom of thread***
by BITE ME
If We Helped To Create It, Don't We Have A Moral Obligation To Correct It? FLDS Body Guard
by Strong Free & Thankful
Your Not Alone- Radio West- Living life without religious influence
by Celestial Wedgie
Porn, Good or Bad?
by Tessa
Interesting article: Warren Jeffs' bodyguard breaks his silence (link)
by Matter Unorganized
It's a Beautiful Day!
by son of perdition
Joseph Smith Was Not The Only One Whom The Religious Have Annointed--Many Wives--Had The Innocent Killed
by Strong Free & Thankful


 http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/home



 





2015 Conference
 "LEAVING A LEGACY"
 October 16-18
 Doubletree Suites
 SLC, Utah





















 


 
Financial Report for 2011 to Date

 
Financial Report for 2010 to Date

 
Financial Report for 2009

 
Twin Falls Newspaper Article

 
Twin Falls Billboard

 
Financial Report for 2009 to Date





 
The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
 [Sound Thinking]
 
Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
 [Peep Stone!]
 
Native American DNA
 [Post-Mormon Mag.]



 
  SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (3/6)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
  Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series- March 6th, 2016 Author Dave Nelson
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
  Open House Meetup: 3/19/16
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
  Train ride and picnic Meetup: 2/27/16
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series February 7th, 2016- Joe Rawlins
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Super Bowl Party (Feb 7)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Jan 10th, 2016-Southern Utah PostMormons will present an outstanding lecture combo
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 New Year's Eve Party
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (1/3)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (12/6)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Southern Utah Post Mormon Association to meet December 6th at the Red Lion in St. George
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 Christmas Party ~ Diamond Head Area
 [Oahu Post Mormon ...] 




Book of Mormon Tories
by Chris Sexton 
Why I am a Better Mother
by antipsicótica 
 Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by Barney 
Resignation Letter to My Family
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
former victim

The Book of Mormon Musical comes to South Carolina!
Swearing Elder

Resignation Letter to My Family
INRETROSPECT

Resignation Letter to My Family
oneanother

Utah County CALM meetup for November
BlackSheep2

FACEBOOK INFO
Crissy

FACEBOOK INFO
Barn

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
Starfleet

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
alvie

Why I am a Better Mother
by aworkinprogress 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
exmoinaz

SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
owned

The Mormon Mask
by Born Free 
Las Vegas Meetup--Jazz in the Park Saturday May 10 6:30PM
onendagus

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Resignation Letter to My Family
Hbush1987

General Non-Conference: Palmetto State Session
Swearing Elder



 

       
   

  

Home



Our Community
























































































































































Our Library



















Our Exit Stories
 

Member Options














     

    
 


  


 
 Introduction
 For New Visitors
 Mission Statement
 The Best of PostMormon.org
 

 Post-Mormons are members of a rapidly growing community of families and individuals who have voluntarily left Mormonism. We choose to no longer base our lives, and the lives of our children, on "truths" dictated by others. We believe that truth is freely available to any honest, diligent seeker regardless of creed, age, race or sexual orientation.

     
We have felt the butterfly’s metamorphosis. Forces that well up from within have compelled us to grow beyond the limits of Mormonism. And so we have become a loosely knit community of friends and support groups, and endeavor to help those like us who also feel the need to explore meaning, purpose and life beyond Mormonism. We celebrate the wonderful diversity of life as we experience as fully as we can our physical and cultural reality. We perceive ourselves as part of a human tapestry that is rich beyond our ability to comprehend, and wonder at this miracle. We have come to realize that there are more ways to do good, and be good, than we can number. What we once perceived as the “strait and narrow way” has broadened to include all ways that promote individual and collective well-being.
 We do not apologize for our inability to fully understand reality or the nature of our own existence. As Albert Einstein said:

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed."

 Some ask if we are anti-Mormon. Our answer is, no, we are not. We feel we are not because we acknowledge and want to keep all the good that came into our lives through Mormonism. We feel we are not because it's not our purpose to encourage people to leave the Church. We feel we are not because many of our family and friends are Mormons and we certainly are not anti-family and friends. But as an organization, we are open about the Church's misrepresentations and the way in which its dogmatism and authoritarianism have proven detrimental to many individuals, families, and communities. As Winston Churchill once said, "Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things."
 We do not advocate another form of Mormonism or any other religion and believe that loving one's neighbor begins with giving up the claim to have special access to truth. We feel that arrogance attends the illusion of “knowing the truth” and that such arrogance leads to a narrow-minded tribalism that impedes personal growth and fosters a divided community. Some of us choose to continue their spiritual journey through traditional religious means and others of us identify ourselves as atheistic or agnostic. We respect these choices as we do those of the well-informed among our family and friends who choose to remain traditional Mormons. We feel sad for those who choose ignorance of any kind and strongly disagree with the few within Mormonism who encourage ignorance and spread misinformation.
 Life is wonderful. We are overcome by feelings of gratitude for the glimpses we occasionally have of its majesty and mystery. And we revel in the opportunity to connect with each other and those of many other walks of life in ways more satisfying than anything we had previously experienced. We would welcome the opportunity to get to know you and invite you to join in the conversation in The Community Forum on this site.
 Sincerely,


  
 


 
 


 
 


 
 


 
 
 


















































    
  
 


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