Wednesday, September 30, 2015

JW Survey recent articles and comments reposted in bold and italicized print










Skip to content
JWsurvey 


Welcome

Cedars’ Blog

About JW Survey

Global Surveys
»





















Videos

JW Broadcasting

Get Involved

Links

Contact Us
  



← A new low? Jehovah’s Witness counts time by mailing grieving families via the obituaries
Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter →
 

Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick
avatar 

Posted on September 28, 2015

Is Warwick already becoming a new Mecca prized by the Governing Body above all else?
Is Warwick already becoming a new Mecca prized by the Governing Body above all else?

The Watch Tower Society is continuing to hemorrhage information. Hot on the heels of the leak of the annual meeting announcements, yet more details have emerged hinting at growing resentment among bethelites as downsizing intensifies.

JWsurvey has been contacted again by someone inside bethel who this time confirmed earlier rumors of a letter that was read to bethelites at morning worship last Wednesday warning of substantial changes.
Taken as a whole, a picture is emerging of an organization in crisis, increasingly running out of funds, led by a group of greedy, deluded men obsessed with seeing their Warwick fantasy come to fruition at the expense of everything else – including, perhaps, the health of their volunteer work force.
As with all bethel informants I have promised to strictly guard the anonymity of my source. With the annual meeting leak I was able to reproduce an entire letter, but this informant has asked that I merely convey information in my own words (rather than verbatim) so as to minimize the risk of discovery. What follows will, therefore, be my own wording based on what I have been told.


An incriminating image
Those of you who follow JW.org will be aware that Watchtower has been posting updates on the progress at Warwick in the form of “photo galleries.” The latest gallery covered work from January through April 2015 and came under the heading “Warwick Photo Gallery 3.”
My source brought it to my attention that this page has since been removed from JW.org, which indeed it has – although a Google cached page is still available on this link.
This raises the question, why was this photo gallery removed? The answer is – embarrassment over THIS picture…
diver-warwick-small
The picture seems fairly innocuous at first. Some guy, presumably a brother, is working in the lake – probably putting up nets to stop debris contaminating the lake, or to stop wildlife getting harmed.
But if you scroll down the cached page, the caption sheds more light…

A hired diver in Blue Lake replaces an old valve with a new one. With the push of a button, the level of the lake can now be lowered to prevent flooding in the event of a hurricane.
Two things now become apparent. Firstly, this is NOT a brother. It’s a “hired diver” – a so-called “worldly” contractor for Watchtower – presumably being paid handsomely due to the skilled nature of his work and the expensive equipment he’s using.
The second thing to notice is the job he’s doing. This is not an effort at preserving the environment or saving wildlife. The diver is “replacing an old valve with a new one” so that “the level of the lake can now be lowered to prevent flooding in the event of a hurricane” with “the push of a button.”
You might be thinking, so what? Why would Watchtower want this image pulled? Basically, it all falls into context once you read on and learn of the reasons for growing disgruntlement among bethelites. They are seeing branches closed, construction work halted, and face lay-offs on an unprecedented scale in the interests of cutting costs, while the Governing Body is lavishing dedicated funds on outside contractors just so they can have their own remote-controlled lake.
Living on borrowed time
The lay-offs rumored to be in the pipeline are official, and will commence from the winter of 2016, conveniently coinciding with the new Warwick headquarters becoming operational.
Certain bethels WILL be shutting down their laundry, kitchen and housekeeping services to cut costs. The total number of those being shown the door is not yet known, but it is expected to be into the thousands.
Not all Brooklyn bethelites will be following Splane, Morris and Co. to Warwick
Not all Brooklyn bethelites will be following Splane, Morris and Co. to Warwick

Hence, as the Governing Body members begin moving into their plush lakeside retreat, many of their “fellow worker” bethelites will be sent packing into the cold of winter – the majority of whom have forsaken higher education to serve the organization.

Many, my source says, are in their 40s and 50s, with nowhere to stay outside bethel, and precious few qualifications or employment prospects. There are fears that this displaced army will place further strain on congregations as frustrated, let-down, childless and homeless former-bethelites struggle to integrate themselves into the less glamorous fringes of Witness life.
There had previously been an unspoken rule that if a brother or sister accrued more than 15 years of bethel service, they were guaranteed to be cared for by Watchtower for life – deep into their old age. But this rule is out of the window, at least for those who will be axed. Despite many years of loyal service, they will have to fend for themselves – turning to the kindness of wealthy non-bethelite brothers and sisters in their new congregations (who they would have once looked down on to some extent for not “putting kingdom interests first”).
Having announced this hammer-blow news that so many bethelites are on borrowed time, the letter concludes by assuring those who will be forced to leave that Jehovah will care for them. According to my new source, the tone of the letter is eerily evocative of the words found at James 2:15-17:

“If a brother or a sister is lacking clothing and enough food for the day, yet one of you says to them, ‘Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,’ but you do not give them what they need for their body, of what benefit is it? So, too, faith by itself, without works, is dead.”
The financial crisis deepens
The letter announcing the lay-offs was read at morning worship on Wednesday 23rd, not just in the United States, but at bethels all over the world. A similar letter was also sent to those in special pioneer service, and construction servants.
The letter speaks of a need to save money, and specifically mentions the May JW Broadcasting episode in which Stephen Lett admitted a shortfall between income and expenditure. (See below)


This is interesting, because comments made by Sam Herd in the August episode seemed to imply the desired funds had since been received, but it is becoming increasingly obvious that this was not so – at least not to the extent needed.
But rather than admitting these drastic changes are being forced on Watchtower simply due to a lack of money, the letter describes the need to speed up the preaching work as being a factor. Thus, laid-off bethel workers are now expected to enter regular pioneer service soon after being tossed out to fend for themselves.
The argument that these changes are inspired by the need to advance the preaching work soon unravels, however, when you consider that special pioneers are ALSO being laid off by these changes. (Special pioneers were receiving a monthly stipend from the organization in exchange for their extra preaching hours.) And it has not gone unnoticed by bethelites that laying-off special pioneers is not a way of speeding up the preaching work, despite Watchtower’s spin. This is purely about saving money by whatever means possible.
An ivory tower on poisoned land
It is becoming increasingly apparent that, despite recent JW Broadcasting episodes heralding its grand building projects all over the world, Watchtower has now frozen virtually all its building programs worldwide so that it can focus on getting Warwick over the finish line.
The late Guy Pierce admitted doubts over Jehovah's direction concerning Warwick
The late Guy Pierce admitted doubts over Jehovah’s direction concerning Warwick

Warwick will be Watchtower’s new Mecca, and its completion is now the Governing Body’s top priority even as finances dwindle.

Since its inception, the Warwick project has had more than a hint of controversy.
When announcing the plans at the 2011 Annual Meeting, the late Guy Pierce made the frank admission that the Governing Body were “not yet certain of Jehovah’s will regarding Warwick,” but irrespective of this were “proceeding to develop the site with the intention of relocating the world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses there.”
Since then the Governing Body has made no secret of its lofty aspirations for their new residence, even telling those who wish to volunteer in its construction that they will be involved in a work akin to rebuilding the walls of Jerusalem under Nehemiah.
“Similar to the call that Nehemiah made to his fellow Israelites, there is a need to call upon the ‘strengthened hands’ of skilled volunteers to complete the Warwick project,” said one service meeting outline attached to a Watchtower letter dated August 21, 2013.
Have Warwick workers been warned to take precautions against dangerous pollutants?
Have Warwick workers been warned to take precautions against dangerous pollutants?

But far from being an unblemished utopia, ordinary bethelites are aware of a media report that circulated back in June to the effect that the Warwick site was contaminated with dangerous chemicals by its previous owners – International Nickel.

Watchtower never responded to requests for comment by Hema Easley of the Times Herald-Record, but it seems there are concerns at bethel that the Governing Body may have been less-than-transparent with Warwick workers about the contaminated nature of the environment in which they are working.
Easley’s article reports that, according to Watchtower’s suit against International Nickel, the organization knew about the problem as far back as 2012/2013 and have been “cleaning the property under the direction of the DEC.”
But given Watchtower’s own dubious track-record with handling pollution, concerned bethelites would be forgiven for wondering whether the Governing Body have really taken all necessary precautions to stop Warwick workers coming into contact with polychlorinated byphenyls – or PCBs – banned in the United States as probable human carcinogens (cancer-causing agents) as far back as 1979.
Thinking Witnesses would do well to question how the Governing Body could be considered “faithful and discreet” by forging ahead with a project while admitting uncertainty over God’s backing. And if they DID have God’s backing all along, why has Jehovah guided his organization to build its new headquarters despite having a shortage of funds, and on land drenched in potentially life-threatening pollutants?
Another scripture will no doubt come to mind for thinking Witnesses, this time in Luke 14:28…

“For example, who of you wanting to build a tower does not first sit down and calculate the expense to see if he has enough to complete it?”
Exciting times
We are now entering a fascinating phase in Watchtower’s history. Over the next couple of years we will all have front row seats to a bizarre spectacle – a cult running out of money, but desperately trying to preserve credibility regardless.
Previously Watchtower could at least count on its army of die-hard bethel workers to rally to its side and hold the fort, but even this alliance is not as solid as it once was, as these new leaks demonstrate.
The recently-announced lay-offs are, I am told, destroying trust in the Governing Body’s leadership among those at bethel – as well they should. These brutal measures bring to the fore the increasingly-noticeable greed and narcissism of the Governing Body – a deluded group of men who shamelessly put their own needs and comfort ahead of those who serve them.
Not satisfied with lavish accommodation and all-expenses-paid trips around the world to attend zone visits and receive adulation at international conventions, these men are now pouring everything into their lakeside retirement retreat – complete with infirmary and adjustable lake.
The Warwick headquarters continue to take shape
The Warwick headquarters continues to take shape

 
Those they have cut loose to help rescue their dream of a potentially cancer-causing cult compound face a more uncertain future. With few prospects, many soon-to-be ex-bethelites will be forced to rely on the already over-stretched resources and generosity of the congregations.
Some ex-Witnesses watching these events unfold remain skeptical that Watchtower truly can be running out of money. Watchtower is, in their minds, too worthy an adversary to ever be vanquished. But I am told my recent speculation regarding possible bankruptcy isn’t that far-fetched. Regardless of how much money an organization may start out with, if income fails to catch up with expenditure consistently year-on-year something will eventually have to give.
And while commercial organizations are usually able to adjust their scope of operations almost on a whim, it is virtually impossible for Watchtower to downsize to a scale corresponding to its income gracefully and seamlessly without people noticing and starting to question its religious claims. In short, the threat of the organization collapsing suddenly under its own weight is very real, and the Governing Body knows it – hence its recent desperate attempts to steady the ship.
This of course does not mean an end to Jehovah’s Witnesses. It simply means that the organization that Jehovah’s Witnesses look to as God’s sole channel with mankind could, in our lifetimes, become a shadow of its former self. And the downsizing has long since started, with Watchtower already well beyond the zenith it reached around 2005 (the last year of full magazine-printing) and 2010, when branch numbers started plummeting.
What lies in store?
The end game is far from certain, but given what we are witnessing, I fully expect Watchtower to eventually be reduced to little more than a cult-compound in upstate New York where dwindling numbers of devout followers flock on occasional pilgrimages for a photo opportunity with their dear leaders.
Nothing will be printed. Everything will be accessed online, with Governing Body members addressing their devotees through videos, assuring them that Armageddon is surely just around the corner because Jehovah’s organization is under attack as never before.
A Scientology Ideal Org in Hamburg
A Scientology Ideal Org in Hamburg

We may live to see the day when Watchtower becomes similar in size and set-up to Scientology, with its 50,000 (or less) followers and a highly-insulated leadership.

There would be no real congregations to speak of, because the vast majority of kingdom halls, having already surrendered their autonomy, would be among the first assets to be sold off. Perhaps a few “ideal orgs” (along the Scientology model) spread out across major city locations might spring up as local focal points for Witness activity. But, as the organization’s woes become more apparent, what were once millions of Witnesses will be reduced to perhaps hundreds of thousands of oblivious, hardcore cult followers who steadfastly refuse to look at objective information on the internet despite the clear evidence that their beloved organization has long since crumbled.
Maybe I’m getting ahead of myself, but now that I’m no longer a Witness I’m allowed to speculate. It may not happen overnight, or to quite that extent. But it is becoming increasingly difficult to deny that something is happening in the bowels of this fiercely proud organization, and I for one feel privileged to witness it.
 
new-cedars-signature3
 
 
 
 
 
 
Click here for a Spanish translation
Further reading…
◾Theocratic Ministry School GONE as 2015 Annual Meeting announcements leaked in advance
◾More downsizing on the way? Multiple sources report bethel letter warning of further cuts
◾Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh
◾JWsurvey articles on Warwick
◾JWsurvey articles on downsizing

Related video…




Share this:



















in
Share
.


Print
.
Like this:



Bookmark the permalink.
 

← A new low? Jehovah’s Witness counts time by mailing grieving families via the obituaries
Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter →
 

191 Responses to Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick


Newer Comments →
 

 Tipper says:

 September 28, 2015 at 7:38 am
 

Lloyd – Your efforts are so greatly appreciated, Thank you!
It is thrilling to think that changes are happening and that hopefully in the near future the hold that the GB have over this organization will lessen and that their collapse will occur for all of us to “witness”.
Reply
 
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 28, 2015 at 7:40 am
 

@Cedars . I think you have ASTUTELY ANALYSED the Current situation very Accurately! Something any one who has studied Economics & The Law of Excessive Supply & Dwindling Demand can’t Fail to Notice ! The Watchtower has OVERSTRETCHED itself in Committing Financial Reserves to Too much CAPITAL EXPENDITURE in the form of BUILDINGS & Too Slow Real Growth Rate at about 1% . They haven’t Got Enough DONATIONS coming in & with the increase in CHILD ABUSE COMPENSATION CASES to Cost probably £100s of Millions ,The GB are in BIG BIG TROUBLE!! OHhh HAPPY DAYS are HERE AGAIN!! … But ONLY for Those of US SHUNNED ONES!! It Would BE SO NICE to See the 7 PYGMIES to take up PART TIME JOBS maybe as WINDOW CLEANERS ????
Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 28, 2015 at 9:00 am
 

I Forgot to ADD … MILLIONS of POUNDS WASTED on a FLASH EXPENSIVE TV STATION & 100s of MILLIONS of Pounds on 170 RTO Buildings with Little increase in Disciples DONATING in POOR JWs from Third World Countries speaking Obscure Languages & MORE IMPORTANT of ENCOURAGING JWs to take DEAD END JOBs to Pioneer so you have MILLIONS of UNEDUCATED JWs in DEAD END BADLY PAID JOBs STRUGGLING to PAY BILLS which leaves them PRACTICALLY ZERO to Contribute towards DONATIONS!! The Governing Body have MADE BAD ERRORS of JUDGMENT & NOW it’s HITTING HOME BIG TIME !!!
Reply
 

 Panhandlegirl says:

 September 28, 2015 at 9:08 am
 

@Pickledbrain,
 You are so RIGHT, so many bad errors coming home to roost.

Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 28, 2015 at 9:27 am
 

@PanHandleGirl . You have a Cool
 Name … NEARLY as COOL as PICKLED BRAIN , & Thank you for your comment it is APPRECIATED!!

Reply
 

 Panhandlegirl says:

 September 28, 2015 at 10:34 am
 

@ Pickled brain, Thanks…and yes, your name is Cool. It is very visual. Although I have been on this site for a long time, I have just recently, last week, started to read the comments. I find them very interesting and insightful;much more than any comments I have ever heard at the kingdom hall or heard from any “active” believing jw.

 
 

 JB Reezner says:

 September 28, 2015 at 5:36 pm
 

Hey, heyyy, remember PB, we are working on HUMILITY! πŸ˜›

 
 
 
 

 OntheReal says:

 September 28, 2015 at 2:00 pm
 

very well said!
Reply
 
 
 
 

 Baccolo says:

 September 28, 2015 at 7:54 am
 

Very good news about the fall of one of the most reactionary US religious organisations.
 One wonders whether the masses of bethelites became redundant would address the National NLRB to have some justice and start a sort of an industrial action to attract public attention.
 It could be a historic breake in religious industry.
 It’s time to actually Awake!

Baccolo
Reply
 
 

 JJ says:

 September 28, 2015 at 8:06 am
 

“Disgruntled Bethelites”
Now this could get interesting!!!
 Imagine thousands(!) of hard-core, self-centered, spiritual giants that have been pampered and pandered to being kicked out of their homes with the loss of work, food, ammenities, retirement hopes and prestigue. Now there is the makings of a revolution!
 Better get ready for more ‘moles’ and a whole lot more information coming your way, John Cedars.

Reply
 

 Tara says:

 September 28, 2015 at 8:48 am
 

when one looses their job do they really stay on with an employer who has destroyed their lives…. is loyalty that strong? Maybe we will see an early exodus of not so happy ex Bethelites who decide to take the early train home….
Reply
 

 Grace says:

 September 28, 2015 at 1:54 pm
 

Tara,
Maybe they’ve started by kicking out the ones that did that “happy” video to teach them a lesson:)
Reply
 

 Tara says:

 September 28, 2015 at 6:34 pm
 

It wouldn’t surprise me. We were asked to remove any trace of it from off our fb pages.
Reply
 
 
 
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 28, 2015 at 2:31 pm
 

@JJ. I think you are Seriously Right on your Assessment of the Situation regarding Disgruntled Bethelites & NEW MOLES for Cedars to Disseminate more inside facts at Warwick!
Reply
 
 
 

 da' says:

 September 28, 2015 at 8:06 am
 

Of all the info that’s been posted to date regarding the org, this saddens me the most. There’s no doubt in my mind these bethelites dedicated the best part of their lives to the advancement of kingdom interests (whether that was right or wrong), now not only do they have to vacate , they’re expected to enter the pioneer ranks ?!
 What ??? How ??? Lets hope for best for them. hopefully they do have family to assist them re-enter the real world, especially if it was the family that pushed them there to begin with. Now , what really boggles the mind … that great big compound in upstate New York. Correct me if im wrong , isn’t Armageddon imminent ? Arent they heading north (and I don’t mean Warwick) ?

So, the Pope finished up his United States tour in Philadelphia , PA , with an APOLOGY to all those abused by the clergy ! GB be careful who you condemn , because now you really look lame !
Reply
 

 JJ says:

 September 28, 2015 at 8:10 am
 

Don’t feel sorry for them, they can rely on Jehovah to look after them!
 (That means government assistance)
 Funny how Satan runs all of the ‘worldly governments’ and these are the very organizations that end up looking after ‘Jehovah’s Servants’ whether it is medical care, Social Security or a place to live.

Reply
 

 Ben Menegazzii says:

 September 28, 2015 at 11:28 am
 

Here in America you have to work in order to receive social security benefits and it’s prorated. I think it’s capped at 20 years, so the less you work the less you get. The proper thing for the WTBTS to do is give the bethelites some money in order to get back on tract. $ 25,000 each is a start.
Reply
 

 SR says:

 September 28, 2015 at 6:44 pm
 

SS is based on the average over 40 years. It’s not that much anyway but someone can’t start paying in at 40 and expect to get much. Having enough to live on in old age takes decades of planning. As bad as all that is I think the feeling of being used would be the cherry on top. I am so glad I didn’t have what it took to be the best and brightest in the WT organization.
Reply
 
 
 

 Ready 4 to Fade says:

 September 28, 2015 at 12:47 pm
 

Agreed, “sucking the milk of the nations” as it were. Maybe the updated translation says something about “availing oneself of food stamps.”. Half of my old congregation is on public assistance.
Reply
 
 
 

 Chiafade says:

 September 28, 2015 at 8:48 am
 

I feel bad for them too. I have a brother in a foreign bethel assignment and he is due to return next year. I’m afraid that he’ll return to a pink slip after 18 years of service. No exit or severance package from the org but very literally a “keep warm and well fed” upon his exit from bethel.
 Once you lose the title of bethelite you are treated VERY differently. Your prestige is gone. The desire to take you out to eat and give you a green handshake disappear even if you’re pioneering. Pioneering just doesn’t carry the same weight as being a bethelite. No more vacations paid for by rich publishers that many a bethelite enjoyed. All of the fringe benefits that come with that title will be a thing of the past and only the most indoctrinated will be able to cope. I think it’s disgusting on the part of the org to do such a thing after actively encouraging young people for years to give their youth to bethel. They shrug off their responsibility to the local congregations without even a thought that it may create a hardship on them as well. In large part because of the thinking that “this system is temporary and if you end up on the street don’t worry because the new system is near”. This kind of thinking allows them to dismiss all kinds of responsibility. Telling the rank and file and future jobless bethelite about their wonderful future meanwhile the gb doesn’t have to wait for anything. They benefit right now meanwhile the average JW waits for a secret benefactor.
 The fact the current gb and past gb have never apologized for anything including the deaths of those who refused blood fractions and organ transplants shows the depth of their depravity. To not see the need to at the very least apologize to child abuse victims is deplorable.

Reply
 

 Panhandlegirl says:

 September 28, 2015 at 9:24 am
 

@Chiafade,
 did one of the gb members not just call (on a video)the bethelites “those on the front lines” or something such like the privileged ones just under the gd? My how things change when it comes to money. I also have some sympathy for anyone who is discarded without any means to survive. I don’t think they even have any social security benefits. They discarded Ray Franz in much the same manner. They are heartless!

Reply
 
 
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 28, 2015 at 8:50 am
 

@da’ . I Noticed yesterday’s main NEWS was the POPE APOLOGISING for CHILD ABUSE within its Ranks ….. WELL WELL WELL …MOST HEAVENLY STEPHEN LETTS!! … How about Apologising for your …,INSULTING COMMENT on TV.JW.Org?? You know ??? APOSTATE DRIVEN LIES!!!
Reply
 
 

 will says:

 September 28, 2015 at 1:43 pm
 

Your comment about the Catholic Church is interesting. I thought the same thing. Unfortunately, the Watchtower lacks humility. Their “apostate lies” comment proves that. I used to be Catholic, so I’m not a fan of them either, but at least it’s something.
Reply
 
 

 shannon says:

 September 28, 2015 at 3:51 pm
 

I thought the same way too, if Armageddon is so imminent why build? I asked my JW sister that very question..She said “these buildings will make it right through Armageddon, they will NOT be destroyed.. I should have asked how she knew that, but her reply would be the same. “Never Question the Society.!
Reply
 
 
 

 Average Joe says:

 September 28, 2015 at 8:11 am
 

Thanks for the update Lloyd and you’re spot on with the application of those two scriptures: “keep warm & well fed” indeed whilst you suffer the consequences of us NOT ‘calculating the cost of building’ our new HQ.
 Cutting back allowances for Special Pioneers: that’s what the money should be primarily used for; ie. spreading the good news!
 Never been a fan of Bethel to be honest and the army-like inflexibility of hours. Add to that the fact that you can get kicked out of US Bethel for being spotted socially wearing blue jeans and being forbidden to have a beard, it then loses its appeal. It was fun to go to as a kid but then so is any big building with lots of machines in it and friendly workers to chinwag with.

Reply
 
 

 Sean says:

 September 28, 2015 at 8:11 am
 

They gave their first-fruits and got back a mealy apple.
Reply
 
 

 Average Joe says:

 September 28, 2015 at 8:13 am
 

(please delete this one if duplicated)…
Thanks for the update Lloyd and you’re spot on with the application of those two scriptures: “keep warm & well fed” indeed whilst you suffer the consequences of us NOT ‘calculating the cost of building’ our new HQ.
 Cutting back allowances for Special Pioneers: that’s what the money should be primarily used for; ie. spreading the good news!
 Never been a fan of Bethel to be honest and the army-like inflexibility of hours. Add to that the fact that you can get kicked out of US Bethel for being spotted socially wearing blue jeans and being forbidden to have a beard, it then loses its appeal. It was fun to go to as a kid but then so is any big building with lots of machines in it and friendly workers to chinwag with.

Reply
 
 

 Stephane Laliberte says:

 September 28, 2015 at 8:14 am
 

Great Job John. Thanks for your work!
Reply
 
 

 df. says:

 September 28, 2015 at 8:17 am
 

poor Caleb will be disappointed when he finds he can’t go to Bethel when he grows up!!
Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 29, 2015 at 3:34 am
 

@df . & SOPHIA won’t be able to MARRY a BETHELITE because they will be ALL SACKED!!!
Reply
 
 
 

 David says:

 September 28, 2015 at 8:18 am
 

The similarities between JWs and other cults are overwhelming.
 If you spend some time studying cults you will not fail to notice the striking similarities.
 JW orgs is in crisis for certain. They have been saying that the end is around the corner for more then a century.
 A century of leadership meetings and holy spirit guidance,…how accurate! Their credibility is zero.
 As many have said… We wanted to be the truth, but it wasn’t! Intelligent people would adjust the situation instead of continue with the lie.

Reply
 
 

 Nemorino says:

 September 28, 2015 at 8:22 am
 

Count me among the skeptics that Watchtower is facing an impending financial collapse.
From what I’ve read… please correct me if I’ve overlooked anything along the way … that published reports of the revenue generated from sales of their Brooklyn properties to date amount to several hundreds of millions of dollars, whereas most estimates for Warwick and several smaller projects add up to just tens of millions.
What, then, if anything, am I missing?
Reply
 
 

 Jose says:

 September 28, 2015 at 8:22 am
 

I so glad that the Watchtower cult is coming to an end. This cult cost my father dead.It’s worth exposing this cult the lives and families it has ruined.Thanks for your efforts Jwsurvey and give up truth.
Reply
 
 

 Average Joe says:

 September 28, 2015 at 8:28 am
 

(having trouble with this one as well today Lloyd)…
By the way, I’ve created a PDF file of that deleted page with all the photos (11 pages in total) for when the cached version is eventually removed. It’s on WeTransfer as per usual so you might want to bung it on your server Lloyd once you’ve downloaded it (if you feel it would be useful for others of course).
 The link:
http://we.tl/LjQWue5V9e
Reply
 

 Cedars says:

 September 28, 2015 at 9:13 am
 

Thanks Average Joe! :)
Reply
 
 

 M. says:

 September 28, 2015 at 2:25 pm
 

thanks
Reply
 
 
 

 Heather Bennett says:

 September 28, 2015 at 8:31 am
 

Thank you for sharing this information! I can’t wait to see what happens next. I really truly hope that someday, my family wakes up and sees what these men are doing, that it is not direction from their God that drives them!
I worry about my grandmother, as the widow of grandpa Guy, my grandfather is not there to keep her from being one of the ones let go. I just hope that she has somewhere, some body.
Reply
 

 Panhandlegirl says:

 September 28, 2015 at 11:48 am
 

@Heather Bennett Hope your grandmother is not thrown out in the cold. That would be really mean.
Reply
 
 

 Dazi says:

 September 28, 2015 at 9:28 pm
 

Hi Heather, Is the grandma you referring to named Penny, Guy Pierce wife? Our family’s go way, way back to the California days.
Reply
 

 Dazi says:

 September 29, 2015 at 11:56 am
 

Hi again, I just saw your comments from last year regarding your grandfather. I was sad to hear of his passing. A relative of mine performed the ceremony/talk for Guy & Pennys wedding. Im often conflicted with my feelings regarding family I love and know are loving people…but, see that they are livng in a bubble! As a child I thought they were so intellegent and special as I matured it was emotionally tramatic to realize they are delutional. So many secerts too!
 Take care, Dazi

Reply
 
 
 
 

 Tara says:

 September 28, 2015 at 8:42 am
 

OMG OMG IT’S TRACY ISLAND!!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNhk_-v0SMs
The governing body are international rescue
Reply
 
 

 wifibandit says:

 September 28, 2015 at 8:48 am
 

Full backup of the Warwick Album #3 http://imgur.com/a/KlNlG
Reply
 

 Cedars says:

 September 28, 2015 at 9:14 am
 

Great, thanks! :)
Reply
 
 
 

 Panhandlegirl says:

 September 28, 2015 at 9:03 am
 

While watching your video I was reminded of a doctor’s comment when I asked about my patient’s symptoms.The patient’s limbs were mottled and his blood pressure was extremely low. The patient was septic.The doc said that these symptoms were due to the body directing most of the blood to the body’s core in order to protect the vital organs. The body can live without limbs. I seems that the organization is doing the same thing; protecting its core (Warwick) and willing to discard the limbs (bethelites)in order to survive.
Reply
 
 

 TheFlyingBastard says:

 September 28, 2015 at 9:04 am
 

“This begs the question, why was this photo gallery removed?”
Hey Cedars. Just dropping in to say that it “raises” the question. Begging the question is a logical fallacy in which the conclusion is assumed in one of the premises.
Other than that, carry on. Love your work, dude. :)
Reply
 

 Cedars says:

 September 28, 2015 at 9:12 am
 

Well spotted, and fixed! πŸ˜‰
Reply
 
 
 

 Doc Obvious says:

 September 28, 2015 at 9:21 am
 

Can you hear the construction song of Watchtower Bible and Tract Society? It is a familiar sound.
 All the people are singing in unison. Its the song of the Smurfs and the opening scene of the Smurf Cartoon series. Yes. The annoying La-La song. If you do not know what I mean give this YouTube video a look at. Smurf Song. Notice how they dance and work just like the Bethelites of Watchtower. Did you notice the Smurf band. Watchtower has a band too. Did you notice all the happy Smurf faces? Watchtower has happy, smiling Bethelite faces.
 See how the smurfs are working on construction projects in Smurf Village. There is no money exchanging hands for work done. The Smurf economy, as noted by Wikipedia at The Smurfs – Smurf economy is “The Smurfs’ community generally takes the form of a cooperative, sharing, and kind environment based on the principle that each Smurf has something he or she is good at, and thus contributes it to Smurf society as he or she can. In return, each Smurf appears to be given their necessities of life, from housing and clothes to food without using any money in exchange.”
Layoffs in Smurf Village are coming. The Smurfs are frustrated. They have been smurfing for several years. This does not sound good to the smurfs. What shall the Smurfs’ do? Will they just stay and do the construction work until it is done? Or, will the Smurfs drop what they are doing and go home? Leaving the work for the Watchtower to do.
 Does this not sound all too familiar? It sure sounds a lot like the Jehovah’s Witnesses in New York.

Reply
 
 

 Doc Obvious says:

 September 28, 2015 at 9:23 am
 

Sorry. Here is the YouTube reference to the Smurf song. If you do not know what I mean give this
 youTube video a look at. Smurf Song.

Reply
 

 Tara says:

 September 28, 2015 at 9:33 am
 

absolutely, no way am I going to get the smurf song stuck in my head NO WAY! I am too busy singing the Thunderbirds theme… see my previous post πŸ˜‰
Reply
 

 JBob says:

 September 28, 2015 at 10:47 am
 

LOL!!!
It’s a lot like Merry–Kingdom–Melodies, Tara..
Reply
 

 Tara says:

 September 28, 2015 at 1:01 pm
 

La la la la la la la
Reply
 

 Grace says:

 September 28, 2015 at 2:31 pm
 

I’ve got the “happy” song stuck in my head.

 
 
 
 
 
 

 Panhandlegirl says:

 September 28, 2015 at 9:34 am
 

@cedars
 Yes, thanks for all your efforts. I came home from work this am eager to see if you had posted the new “leaked information.” So happy to see it! Will post it on my fb page today.

Reply
 
 

 ScotWm says:

 September 28, 2015 at 9:47 am
 

RE: “Previously Watchtower could at least count on its army of die-hard bethel workers to rally to its side and hold the fort…”
The poor treatment of Bethel slaves is going to hurt the Watchtower’s reputation more than anything else.
Ordinary rank and file Watchtower cult members who become disgusted with the organization will generally fade away. On the other hand, the majority of disgruntled Bethel slaves who get kicked out will be repatriated to their home congregations or other congregations while harboring huge grudges against the Governing Body.
As we have already seen, some current Bethel slaves have already turned against their masters. Once this army of Bethel throwaways is kicked out on the street, we will hear insider stories from them that will make Raymond Franz look like a Watchtower cheerleader.
Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 28, 2015 at 2:41 pm
 

@ScotWm . Discarded Bethelites with LIMITED Finances & Job Prospects Will NOT Be Happy & They WILL NOT Be SINGING PHARRELL WILLIAMS SONG!! INSIDER DISCONTENTMENT will DO A LOTTA More Damage than I think the GB have Anticipated !
Reply
 

 ScotWm says:

 September 28, 2015 at 7:52 pm
 

“The rapid growth in Jehovah’s organization is creating an increased demand for more Kingdom Halls, Assembly Halls, theocratic school facilities, remote translation offices, as well as branch buildings in various places. Hence, in October 2013, the Governing Body established a new department so that the work of designing, building, renovating, and maintaining our facilities could be carried out in the most efficient and economical manner.”
Fast forward two years to October 2015 and we see all of the Watchtower construction efforts focused on the Governing Body’s lavish new lakeside resort in Warwick, New York. Shrinking financial resources require that all surplus Bethel slave labor workers not needed to complete the Warwick project will be dumped on the street.
These disposable Bethel slaves will definitely not be singing songs of praise to their greedy, delusional Watchtower Governing Body slave masters.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/302015053#h=5
Reply
 
 
 
 

 RobertoPerez67 says:

 September 28, 2015 at 10:00 am
 

Fantastic article and video Lloyd.
I believe many of these loyal to Jehovah bethelites will simply come to realize that they don’t need to slave for a publishing house in order to serve the almighty himself. I really do hope they find stable work and a happy existence outside of Bethel. I’m sure many here can attest to finding true happiness at escaping the mental hold these false prophets had over them. I’ve posted before, but incase its your first time at jwsurvey, please keep the following words in your heart
 Deutoronomy 18:20-22 Part of Moses locker room talk before entering the promised land with a strict warning to Jehovahs people.
“‘If any prophet presumptuously speaks a word in my name that I did not command him to speak or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 However, you may say in your heart: “How will we know that Jehovah has not spoken the word?”22 When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then Jehovah did not speak that word. The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him.’ (Don’t fear the Borg)

Proverbs 30:5,6
  5 Every saying of God is refined. He is a shield to those taking refuge in him.  6 Add nothing to his words, Or he will reprove you, And you will be proved a liar. ( I believe we are witnessing the reproval of men who twisted Gods word to fit their multi billion dollar empires agenda, making all sort of false prophecies in gods name along the way. Things that never came to pass, to their embarrassment.)

Revelation 22: 18-21 Final words in all Bible uttered as a warning by Jesus Christ himself to all who put faith in his promises.
18 “I am bearing witness to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; 19 and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things that are written about in this scroll. 20 “The one who bears witness of these things says, ‘Yes, I am coming quickly.’” “Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.” 21 May the undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus be with the holy ones.
 ( There is nothing in there about a group of men in the “end times” being deputized to add or omit to scripture at their leisure. The passage is perfectly clear on not adding your self righteous brain farts to what is written and that is everything the Watchtower is dedicated to. Twisting and adding amendments to scripture calling it new light, by quoting a passage that was written a millennia before Jesus Christ pronounced these closing remarks on the bible. Basically saying Jesus got it wrong, or he snoozed on these last little bits and thank God were here to finish his thoughts for him. Shunning, two witness rule, preaching quotas, secret trials, selective men that would live off the donations of others, false prophecies, every decade or so) Please go through this entire site and then visit
http://www.JWfacts.com for more specific crimes committed by this “organization”
Hey anyone remember that one time Jesus himself excommunicated doubting Thomas for doubting the words of other elders? No? Me neither or Abraham for questioning God himself to his face over Soddom and Gommorah? How about Jonah for outright defying gods instructions and heading in the opposite direction, remember how God abandoned him? Or when Gideon doubted gods words and insisted on physical proof or when Abraham and Sarah laughed at gods promise with disbelief? How abaout Habakuk? So on and so forth. The point is these executioners of Gods sheep have everything they deserve coming to them.

Reply
 

 ruthlee says:

 September 28, 2015 at 1:24 pm
 

dearest brother YOU have said it all and in Gods name . It is all in scripture God is not to be mocked. We are awaiting our liberation but not before justice is served.rl
Reply
 
 
 

 Khaleesi says:

 September 28, 2015 at 10:11 am
 

I wonder if the GB is realizing that the broadcast has done more harm than good ( for us it’s done more good than harm just confirms doubts of the people they are)…
I concur poor bethalites I mean the WT keeps saying “no to superior education” and even recently with the visiting CO’s talks about “wasting 4 years in a college and then ending up working in McDonalds and not keeping spiritual pursuits first, and you should’ve first started with working at McDonalds making all meetings, service, etc.. and you would’ve not wasted 4 years in a university, hey but you made the meetings and go out in service”…. now I have a defense to say about setting realistic goals for my child that I am paying for him/her to go to a university because I don’t want him to get Laid-off at 40-50 yrs old for pursuing “kingdom interest first”… I don’t understand why JW don’t see the reasoning behind how quickly you are dispersed when you are no longer needed, money always come first…

Reply
 
 

 Mama Joy says:

 September 28, 2015 at 10:15 am
 

This is a standard in the world of business. If you want to open up and build something new, there is a time period that people will be layer off.
Unfortunately, this is a business masquerading as a religion. For the people who worked for free all those years only to be kicked out for a new building, I’m sorry for them because they truly were a slave.
Reply
 

 Mama Joy says:

 September 28, 2015 at 10:16 am
 

*sp Layed off
Reply
 

 Panhandlegirl says:

 September 28, 2015 at 11:39 am
 

@ Mama Joy,
 As I grew up and out of the borg, I realized that, yes, that is what this organization is, a publishing “business masquerading as a religion” and they have stolen so many young lives. I would like nothing more than to see this corporation go down in flames. I do not expect the “religion” to go down anytime soon, but large corporations do go down, let’s hope this is happening to the WTBTS.

Reply
 
 
 
 

 seztholz76 says:

 September 28, 2015 at 10:19 am
 

I am noob to all this but mentally i am out of the BORG.
My concern is those of us who are in physically but out mentally really need to figure out how we can help more people as the BORG crumbles.
I feel sorry for these brothers who gave so much for so long….see yall over at ex jw reddit same name seztholz76
i love you all and hope to help all i can
Reply
 
 

 TheLordHumongos says:

 September 28, 2015 at 10:24 am
 

I’m actually not surprised by these moves. Warwick by the Lake will be completed, then what use are all of the other branches and HQ’s? Zero. Get everything together in one giant cult compound to save money, then cut off the other money-draining Branches in order to save money. One cult compound, one HQ, one Ark. Makes sense if you are running a Cult real estate corporation. Also, drastic cut-backs on the amount of printed material, with everything being made to be put on the internet. Again, no more worldwide printing facilities needed. They aren’t hurting for money, they are merely being SMART with it. Consolidation. Remember, the accountants and lawyers run the WTBTS, not the GB. Follow the money.
Reply
 

 Sarah says:

 September 28, 2015 at 12:30 pm
 

I agree. This is exciting, and I think they maybe be running out of money also…but are also just a business restructuring the way they operate. Probably any publishing company is feeling the need to cut back on printing in the age of the Internet. The world and the way people get information is changing. I wonder if many of the non bethelite Jws will even think anything of it.
Reply
 
 

 Tara says:

 September 28, 2015 at 1:07 pm
 

So say’s Thomas Brackenreid πŸ˜‰
Reply
 
 
 

 Dee says:

 September 28, 2015 at 10:28 am
 

Can I just hug you??? I seriously just read that entire thing twice, and I could hear the curtain being rent back, the Great Wizards of Org exposed for who they are…greedy, self aggrandizing men who readily kick aside those who have bowed down and served them. I hope they NEVER move into Walkill, and the pollution problems make it uninhabitable! Thank you Erin Brockovich! Im soooooo excited! Conjecture on, my friend.
Reply
 
 

 James says:

 September 28, 2015 at 10:29 am
 

“Everything will be accessed online, with Governing Body members addressing their devotees through videos, assuring them that Armageddon is surely just around the corner because Jehovah’s organization is under attack as never before.”
Mark my words, pretty soon (next 15 years) the Watchtower will tell their followers that we are now living in the Great Tribulation. A lot of witnesses will be caught off guard, since the expectation of JWs (especially since the macabre imagery in the Revelation book) is more akin to a Hollywood disaster movie, with intense persecution.
But thinking Witnesses will realize something is wrong when the look outside and realize that nothing is different than before.
Reply
 
 

 ProphetMoeshe says:

 September 28, 2015 at 10:54 am
 

Exodus 32 – I am reminded that the Bethelites released a “Happy” dancing video last year–dancing about a pagan icon. And, now, Moses has come down from the mountain of the Most High and the wages of dancing are impending layoffs. Perhaps acts of contrition and repentance will lift the disapproving anger of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah?
[distant thunder rumbling and ground shaking]
 Who’s sorry now?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ws60MDF7OY
Reply
 
 

 Rowland Nelken says:

 September 28, 2015 at 11:07 am
 

Great artice and vids, of course, great news about a foul outfit in crisis.
The closing appeal to the Gov. Bod., if those aloof oafs bother to listen, will certainly rankle. I can imagine, however, that after reflection they will put a typically perverse JW spin on the situation.
They love to brag about any outsiders’ complimentary observations on JWdom, whether or not they have spun, edited or otherwise distorted the comments.
They also, however, turn to their advantage public disdain and They can point to all the prophecies about true followers of Jesus getting flak for their commitment in the Last Days. They share this with other End Times Christian sects.
If the exposure of JWdom’s awfulness gets too obvious to ignore then these little Biblical words may come in handy: http://biblehub.com/matthew/10-22.htm
Reply
 
 

 eyes opened says:

 September 28, 2015 at 11:15 am
 

Perhaps it was the unsuspecting, ever faithful bethelites that are the “faithful and discreet slave”.
Reply
 
 

 Mel says:

 September 28, 2015 at 11:15 am
 

Is it not likely that the governing body will tell the congregants that the downsize is due to armageddon being imminent?
Reply
 
 

 Faithful Witness says:

 September 28, 2015 at 11:16 am
 

Are we getting ready to “obey instructions, whether they make sense from a human standpoint or not?”
Reply
 

 Dee says:

 September 28, 2015 at 2:42 pm
 

Oh yes….they’ve been prepping the flock for this for years. It’ll be all about loyalty and “no matter what we throw at you, will you drink the koolaid?”
Reply
 
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 28, 2015 at 2:45 pm
 

@ Faithful Witness . NICE COMMENT & Anticipation of what next to expect from the GB !!
 How about BLOW UP Stephen LETTS HEAD!

Reply
 

 ruthlee says:

 September 29, 2015 at 1:15 am
 

I really DID laugh out loud.. Still laughing rl
Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 29, 2015 at 3:43 am
 

@ruthlee . ITS GOOD to MAKE PEOPLE LAUGH !!! Thanks for your Comment.!
 I Wonder if STEPHEN LETT could STILL LAUGH if his HEAD Was BLOWN UP!
 STEPHEN Does AMAZING THINGS with his FACE !! … Anything is Possible if you are going to HEAVEN … I Suppose?? … It’s FASCINATING to PONDER these ‘ DEEP SPIRITUAL POINTS ?? .. OHHh Well .

Reply
 
 
 
 
 

 eyes opened says:

 September 28, 2015 at 11:16 am
 

My smiley face didn’t show up. I was being silly.
Reply
 
 

 Frank says:

 September 28, 2015 at 11:32 am
 

Don’t be too surprised if there is an increase in applications for/from these uneducated about to be let go Bethel pioneers for welfare, disability and Snap (formerly Food Stamps) benefits. You see, many of these people are unprepared for the outside world as they are told that a higher education in “this current system of things” is unfruitful, unnecessary and above all, a waste of time. This increase in the filing of these applications, especially in New York state, where these events are happening, will be dutifully reported on the news when this happens. The thing is one corner of their mouths, the JW’s, under the guidance of the WTBTS and it’s GB, preach and teach that their followers and would be hopeful followers that they are to have nothing to do with “this current system of things”, but at the same time, these future “laid-off” pioneers will have no choice but to apply for these particular handouts(so to speak). This simply again shows the hypocrisy of this particular religion and the organization, including it’s leadership, the GB, behind it. Thank goodness I dropped out when I did. I wouldn’t want to be in there now with all the negative hullabaloo going on in the borg now. Pathetic and hypocritical indeed.
Reply
 
 

 Troofily says:

 September 28, 2015 at 12:10 pm
 

Great article! John, I feel this might be fantasizing too much about the end of this wt cult but nevertheless these changes are going to shake things up a bit, especially in developed countries. In less developed countries like African countries many people will be prepared to open they’re mouths wide to ANYTHING!
 All this is happening because the GB themselves are deeply brainwashed and they have no idea they are deluded. That is why they keep on doing these things.

Reply
 
 

 Paul says:

 September 28, 2015 at 12:33 pm
 

You would think that this increasing focus on cutting costs, reducing other projects, just to focus on Warwick would alert a greater number of JWs to what is really going on.
 However, I talked with an elder yesterday, and although he admitted that Letts May broadcast had “disturbed him” he still pushed the official line that funds were needed because of the huge expansion taking place worldwide. He cited 5 Kingdom Halls per day being built… Which is at odds with figures that I have seen. I advised him that several sources overseas told me that construction was being halted in many countries. His reply was still that the increases were massive and hence the need for more funds.
 From this we can see that the average JW is totally taken in by the false information being sent out by Watchtower via its communications and representatives.
 How much longer can they pull the wool over their eyes?

Reply
 
 

 TommyTom says:

 September 28, 2015 at 1:02 pm
 

“…it is becoming increasingly difficult to deny that something is happening in the bowels of this fiercely proud organization…” This is soooo true. As an “active” witness I can attest to the fact that the older generation of active JW’s in my and many other congregations (and I’m talking about individuals who have been members for at least 30 years and some were elders for many of those years) are feeling that something is wrong… Many say they know something is out of place… something is odd, and although they don’t know what it is (or can’t speak ther minds due to fear of consequences), they all agree that something is happening… It’s like there is a mutual feeling deep inside everyone (counting myself in) that tells something isn’t right but again, I think some DO know that these are signs that Jehovah can’t be guiding this organization contrary to popular belief; however, they know if they show any sign of concern or doubt, they will face consequences. Sadly, I’m trapped as well. Is there anyone who identifies with my observation?
Reply
 
 


Newer Comments →
 

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *
Name *
Email *
Website
Comment

applications-education-miscellaneous.png
Comment posting guidelines:
Kindly observe the following requirements before posting any comments to our articles or pages:
◾ABUSIVE COMMENTS - Do not post comments that include swear words or may be considered abusive, lewd, blasphemous, obscene or threatening
◾ILLEGAL COMMENTS - Do not post comments that condone or propose illegal activity, or that breach copyright law
◾OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS - Do not post comments that are off-topic and bear no relation to the page or article
◾RELIGIOUS NEUTRALITY - Do not post comments that are evangelical in nature or may be construed as imposing one person's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) over those of another
◾LANGUAGE - Visitors from all countries and language groups are welcome. You may post comments in languages other than English, but we would appreciate if you could make any such comments brief. We would also be grateful if you could run any such comments through Google Translate and convert these to English, but this is not an absolute requirement.
◾LINKS - You may post links to third party websites, so long as (1) you limit these to 2 links per comment, and (2) the content on these links doesn't contravene ANY of the first four points. Specifically, you may not post URLs to websites that are evangelical in nature. Our links page has an extensive list of such sites for any who are curious about Christian beliefs in the context of Jehovah's Witnesses.

JWSurvey.org thanks all visitors in advance for respectfully observing these guidelines. Any who persistently fail to do so, despite warnings, may find themselves blocked from making further comments at the discretion of the site moderators, whose decision will be final and not open for debate.
 
  


 Notify me of new posts by email.
  
 

 


Click on 
Visit JWfacts.com for more information on JW beliefs
Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses
JW Recovery forum
Barbara Anderson's Watchtower Documents resource
Visit JWstruggle.com for helpful information on exiting JW mind control Visit TAZE.co for discussion on Jehovah's Witness developments



 
 
Support JWsurvey
Help us make continued improvements to this website and its content.
 

       
 

Article Categories
◾Apostates (28)
◾Blood transfusions (12)
◾Books (5)
◾Cedars' Blog (217)
◾Cedars' Story (4)
◾Celebrity JWs (2)
◾Child Abuse (52)
◾Child Indoctrination (16)
◾Divine Direction (4)
◾Domestic Abuse (2)
◾Doomsday Predictions (1)
◾Downsizing (10)
◾Evolution and creation (6)
◾General Information (1)
◾Governing Body (35)
◾Higher education (3)
◾History and scandals (6)
◾JW.org (8)
◾Life Stories (10)
◾Mental health (5)
◾Mini-Surveys (5)
◾News (196)
◾Property sales (5)
◾Publications (6)
◾Shunning (13)
◾Support (6)
◾Survey (12)
◾Undue influence (16)
◾Warwick headquarters (5)


Search JWsurvey

  

Subscribe to JW Survey


Enter your email address to receive notices of new posts by email.
Join 860 other subscribers
Email Address  
    
 

Listen to JWpodcast

Check out the latest episode of JW podcast! 

Latest John Cedars video
 

Popular JW sites in other languages
Languages         
More languages...

Select... Croatian Czech Dutch Estonian Finnish 1 Finnish 2 French 1 French 2 French 3 German 1 German 2 Hungarian Italian 1 Italian 2 Italian 3 Japanese Polish 1 Polish 2 Polish 3 Portuguese 1 Portuguese 2 Romanian Russian 1 Russian 2 Russian 3 Serbian 1 Serbian 2 Serbian 3 Slovak Spanish 1 Spanish 2
 

Top Posts & Pages
Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter 
 Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter 

Theocratic Ministry School GONE as 2015 Annual Meeting announcements leaked in advance 
 Theocratic Ministry School GONE as 2015 Annual Meeting announcements leaked in advance 

Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick 
 Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick 

More downsizing on the way? Multiple sources report bethel letter warning of further cuts 
 More downsizing on the way? Multiple sources report bethel letter warning of further cuts 

Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh 
 Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh 

Dear Watchtower, THANK YOU for your "tight pants" copyright complaint! 
 Dear Watchtower, THANK YOU for your "tight pants" copyright complaint! 



 
 

Click on  

Open Offer

Open Offer to all bethelites
 Do you work at Brooklyn, Patterson or Wallkill? If so, please click here.


Our Promise
Making corrections
 Is there something incorrect or unfactual on this website? If so, please let us know and we will correct it.


2015 results at a glance
Number of respondents to the 2015 Global Survey
Site Stats
Visitor stats for JWsurvey

Like us on Facebook!







 
Cedars’ Twitter Feed
 

 
 
Who's Online
◾0 Members.
◾57 Guests.


Reader Comments
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter


Menu
◾About JW Survey
◾Contact Us
◾Experiences
◾Get Involved
◾Global Surveys ◾2011 Global Survey
◾2012 Global Survey
◾2013 Global Survey
◾2014 Global Survey
◾2015 Global Survey

◾JW Broadcasting
◾JWawake.com
◾Links
◾Videos
◾Welcome


Login
 ◾Login


Scan JWsurvey.org

 



Copyright © 2011-2013 JWsurvey.org. Site design and support by The Small Web Master.

    StatCounter - Free Web Tracker and Counter     



http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/watchtower-in-crisis-frustration-grows-at-bethel-as-governing-body-focuses-everything-on-warwick/comment-page-1#comments











Skip to content
JWsurvey 


Welcome

Cedars’ Blog

About JW Survey

Global Surveys
»





















Videos

JW Broadcasting

Get Involved

Links

Contact Us
  



← A new low? Jehovah’s Witness counts time by mailing grieving families via the obituaries
Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter →
 

Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick
avatar 

Posted on September 28, 2015

Is Warwick already becoming a new Mecca prized by the Governing Body above all else?
Is Warwick already becoming a new Mecca prized by the Governing Body above all else?

The Watch Tower Society is continuing to hemorrhage information. Hot on the heels of the leak of the annual meeting announcements, yet more details have emerged hinting at growing resentment among bethelites as downsizing intensifies.

JWsurvey has been contacted again by someone inside bethel who this time confirmed earlier rumors of a letter that was read to bethelites at morning worship last Wednesday warning of substantial changes.
Taken as a whole, a picture is emerging of an organization in crisis, increasingly running out of funds, led by a group of greedy, deluded men obsessed with seeing their Warwick fantasy come to fruition at the expense of everything else – including, perhaps, the health of their volunteer work force.
As with all bethel informants I have promised to strictly guard the anonymity of my source. With the annual meeting leak I was able to reproduce an entire letter, but this informant has asked that I merely convey information in my own words (rather than verbatim) so as to minimize the risk of discovery. What follows will, therefore, be my own wording based on what I have been told.


An incriminating image
Those of you who follow JW.org will be aware that Watchtower has been posting updates on the progress at Warwick in the form of “photo galleries.” The latest gallery covered work from January through April 2015 and came under the heading “Warwick Photo Gallery 3.”
My source brought it to my attention that this page has since been removed from JW.org, which indeed it has – although a Google cached page is still available on this link.
This raises the question, why was this photo gallery removed? The answer is – embarrassment over THIS picture…
diver-warwick-small
The picture seems fairly innocuous at first. Some guy, presumably a brother, is working in the lake – probably putting up nets to stop debris contaminating the lake, or to stop wildlife getting harmed.
But if you scroll down the cached page, the caption sheds more light…

A hired diver in Blue Lake replaces an old valve with a new one. With the push of a button, the level of the lake can now be lowered to prevent flooding in the event of a hurricane.
Two things now become apparent. Firstly, this is NOT a brother. It’s a “hired diver” – a so-called “worldly” contractor for Watchtower – presumably being paid handsomely due to the skilled nature of his work and the expensive equipment he’s using.
The second thing to notice is the job he’s doing. This is not an effort at preserving the environment or saving wildlife. The diver is “replacing an old valve with a new one” so that “the level of the lake can now be lowered to prevent flooding in the event of a hurricane” with “the push of a button.”
You might be thinking, so what? Why would Watchtower want this image pulled? Basically, it all falls into context once you read on and learn of the reasons for growing disgruntlement among bethelites. They are seeing branches closed, construction work halted, and face lay-offs on an unprecedented scale in the interests of cutting costs, while the Governing Body is lavishing dedicated funds on outside contractors just so they can have their own remote-controlled lake.
Living on borrowed time
The lay-offs rumored to be in the pipeline are official, and will commence from the winter of 2016, conveniently coinciding with the new Warwick headquarters becoming operational.
Certain bethels WILL be shutting down their laundry, kitchen and housekeeping services to cut costs. The total number of those being shown the door is not yet known, but it is expected to be into the thousands.
Not all Brooklyn bethelites will be following Splane, Morris and Co. to Warwick
Not all Brooklyn bethelites will be following Splane, Morris and Co. to Warwick

Hence, as the Governing Body members begin moving into their plush lakeside retreat, many of their “fellow worker” bethelites will be sent packing into the cold of winter – the majority of whom have forsaken higher education to serve the organization.

Many, my source says, are in their 40s and 50s, with nowhere to stay outside bethel, and precious few qualifications or employment prospects. There are fears that this displaced army will place further strain on congregations as frustrated, let-down, childless and homeless former-bethelites struggle to integrate themselves into the less glamorous fringes of Witness life.
There had previously been an unspoken rule that if a brother or sister accrued more than 15 years of bethel service, they were guaranteed to be cared for by Watchtower for life – deep into their old age. But this rule is out of the window, at least for those who will be axed. Despite many years of loyal service, they will have to fend for themselves – turning to the kindness of wealthy non-bethelite brothers and sisters in their new congregations (who they would have once looked down on to some extent for not “putting kingdom interests first”).
Having announced this hammer-blow news that so many bethelites are on borrowed time, the letter concludes by assuring those who will be forced to leave that Jehovah will care for them. According to my new source, the tone of the letter is eerily evocative of the words found at James 2:15-17:

“If a brother or a sister is lacking clothing and enough food for the day, yet one of you says to them, ‘Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,’ but you do not give them what they need for their body, of what benefit is it? So, too, faith by itself, without works, is dead.”
The financial crisis deepens
The letter announcing the lay-offs was read at morning worship on Wednesday 23rd, not just in the United States, but at bethels all over the world. A similar letter was also sent to those in special pioneer service, and construction servants.
The letter speaks of a need to save money, and specifically mentions the May JW Broadcasting episode in which Stephen Lett admitted a shortfall between income and expenditure. (See below)


This is interesting, because comments made by Sam Herd in the August episode seemed to imply the desired funds had since been received, but it is becoming increasingly obvious that this was not so – at least not to the extent needed.
But rather than admitting these drastic changes are being forced on Watchtower simply due to a lack of money, the letter describes the need to speed up the preaching work as being a factor. Thus, laid-off bethel workers are now expected to enter regular pioneer service soon after being tossed out to fend for themselves.
The argument that these changes are inspired by the need to advance the preaching work soon unravels, however, when you consider that special pioneers are ALSO being laid off by these changes. (Special pioneers were receiving a monthly stipend from the organization in exchange for their extra preaching hours.) And it has not gone unnoticed by bethelites that laying-off special pioneers is not a way of speeding up the preaching work, despite Watchtower’s spin. This is purely about saving money by whatever means possible.
An ivory tower on poisoned land
It is becoming increasingly apparent that, despite recent JW Broadcasting episodes heralding its grand building projects all over the world, Watchtower has now frozen virtually all its building programs worldwide so that it can focus on getting Warwick over the finish line.
The late Guy Pierce admitted doubts over Jehovah's direction concerning Warwick
The late Guy Pierce admitted doubts over Jehovah’s direction concerning Warwick

Warwick will be Watchtower’s new Mecca, and its completion is now the Governing Body’s top priority even as finances dwindle.

Since its inception, the Warwick project has had more than a hint of controversy.
When announcing the plans at the 2011 Annual Meeting, the late Guy Pierce made the frank admission that the Governing Body were “not yet certain of Jehovah’s will regarding Warwick,” but irrespective of this were “proceeding to develop the site with the intention of relocating the world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses there.”
Since then the Governing Body has made no secret of its lofty aspirations for their new residence, even telling those who wish to volunteer in its construction that they will be involved in a work akin to rebuilding the walls of Jerusalem under Nehemiah.
“Similar to the call that Nehemiah made to his fellow Israelites, there is a need to call upon the ‘strengthened hands’ of skilled volunteers to complete the Warwick project,” said one service meeting outline attached to a Watchtower letter dated August 21, 2013.
Have Warwick workers been warned to take precautions against dangerous pollutants?
Have Warwick workers been warned to take precautions against dangerous pollutants?

But far from being an unblemished utopia, ordinary bethelites are aware of a media report that circulated back in June to the effect that the Warwick site was contaminated with dangerous chemicals by its previous owners – International Nickel.

Watchtower never responded to requests for comment by Hema Easley of the Times Herald-Record, but it seems there are concerns at bethel that the Governing Body may have been less-than-transparent with Warwick workers about the contaminated nature of the environment in which they are working.
Easley’s article reports that, according to Watchtower’s suit against International Nickel, the organization knew about the problem as far back as 2012/2013 and have been “cleaning the property under the direction of the DEC.”
But given Watchtower’s own dubious track-record with handling pollution, concerned bethelites would be forgiven for wondering whether the Governing Body have really taken all necessary precautions to stop Warwick workers coming into contact with polychlorinated byphenyls – or PCBs – banned in the United States as probable human carcinogens (cancer-causing agents) as far back as 1979.
Thinking Witnesses would do well to question how the Governing Body could be considered “faithful and discreet” by forging ahead with a project while admitting uncertainty over God’s backing. And if they DID have God’s backing all along, why has Jehovah guided his organization to build its new headquarters despite having a shortage of funds, and on land drenched in potentially life-threatening pollutants?
Another scripture will no doubt come to mind for thinking Witnesses, this time in Luke 14:28…

“For example, who of you wanting to build a tower does not first sit down and calculate the expense to see if he has enough to complete it?”
Exciting times
We are now entering a fascinating phase in Watchtower’s history. Over the next couple of years we will all have front row seats to a bizarre spectacle – a cult running out of money, but desperately trying to preserve credibility regardless.
Previously Watchtower could at least count on its army of die-hard bethel workers to rally to its side and hold the fort, but even this alliance is not as solid as it once was, as these new leaks demonstrate.
The recently-announced lay-offs are, I am told, destroying trust in the Governing Body’s leadership among those at bethel – as well they should. These brutal measures bring to the fore the increasingly-noticeable greed and narcissism of the Governing Body – a deluded group of men who shamelessly put their own needs and comfort ahead of those who serve them.
Not satisfied with lavish accommodation and all-expenses-paid trips around the world to attend zone visits and receive adulation at international conventions, these men are now pouring everything into their lakeside retirement retreat – complete with infirmary and adjustable lake.
The Warwick headquarters continue to take shape
The Warwick headquarters continues to take shape

 
Those they have cut loose to help rescue their dream of a potentially cancer-causing cult compound face a more uncertain future. With few prospects, many soon-to-be ex-bethelites will be forced to rely on the already over-stretched resources and generosity of the congregations.
Some ex-Witnesses watching these events unfold remain skeptical that Watchtower truly can be running out of money. Watchtower is, in their minds, too worthy an adversary to ever be vanquished. But I am told my recent speculation regarding possible bankruptcy isn’t that far-fetched. Regardless of how much money an organization may start out with, if income fails to catch up with expenditure consistently year-on-year something will eventually have to give.
And while commercial organizations are usually able to adjust their scope of operations almost on a whim, it is virtually impossible for Watchtower to downsize to a scale corresponding to its income gracefully and seamlessly without people noticing and starting to question its religious claims. In short, the threat of the organization collapsing suddenly under its own weight is very real, and the Governing Body knows it – hence its recent desperate attempts to steady the ship.
This of course does not mean an end to Jehovah’s Witnesses. It simply means that the organization that Jehovah’s Witnesses look to as God’s sole channel with mankind could, in our lifetimes, become a shadow of its former self. And the downsizing has long since started, with Watchtower already well beyond the zenith it reached around 2005 (the last year of full magazine-printing) and 2010, when branch numbers started plummeting.
What lies in store?
The end game is far from certain, but given what we are witnessing, I fully expect Watchtower to eventually be reduced to little more than a cult-compound in upstate New York where dwindling numbers of devout followers flock on occasional pilgrimages for a photo opportunity with their dear leaders.
Nothing will be printed. Everything will be accessed online, with Governing Body members addressing their devotees through videos, assuring them that Armageddon is surely just around the corner because Jehovah’s organization is under attack as never before.
A Scientology Ideal Org in Hamburg
A Scientology Ideal Org in Hamburg

We may live to see the day when Watchtower becomes similar in size and set-up to Scientology, with its 50,000 (or less) followers and a highly-insulated leadership.

There would be no real congregations to speak of, because the vast majority of kingdom halls, having already surrendered their autonomy, would be among the first assets to be sold off. Perhaps a few “ideal orgs” (along the Scientology model) spread out across major city locations might spring up as local focal points for Witness activity. But, as the organization’s woes become more apparent, what were once millions of Witnesses will be reduced to perhaps hundreds of thousands of oblivious, hardcore cult followers who steadfastly refuse to look at objective information on the internet despite the clear evidence that their beloved organization has long since crumbled.
Maybe I’m getting ahead of myself, but now that I’m no longer a Witness I’m allowed to speculate. It may not happen overnight, or to quite that extent. But it is becoming increasingly difficult to deny that something is happening in the bowels of this fiercely proud organization, and I for one feel privileged to witness it.
 
new-cedars-signature3
 
 
 
 
 
 
Click here for a Spanish translation
Further reading…
◾Theocratic Ministry School GONE as 2015 Annual Meeting announcements leaked in advance
◾More downsizing on the way? Multiple sources report bethel letter warning of further cuts
◾Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh
◾JWsurvey articles on Warwick
◾JWsurvey articles on downsizing

Related video…




Share this:



















in
Share
.


Print
.
Like this:



Bookmark the permalink.
 

← A new low? Jehovah’s Witness counts time by mailing grieving families via the obituaries
Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter →
 

191 Responses to Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick

← Older Comments
Newer Comments →
 

 1914 ha ha ha says:

 September 28, 2015 at 1:03 pm
 

I dont think the average r&f will care to much. My mum & elder dad both know for a fact all consruction has stopped here in UK. They didnt bat an eyelid. Go figiure.
Reply
 
 

 ruthlee says:

 September 28, 2015 at 1:36 pm
 

well isnt this a pretty picture! who’s speeding up what at the moment then? Yesterday we had a bro hijack the wt to drum up more funds for the greedy org. We were also informed our KH passed as being in good repair by a new (appointee). I cannot remember the official title of the dude but he goes aroung the Kh’s assessing their state of repair. I’m a bit skeptical I think the assessment is to see how much everything is worth for a quick sale. Is that too cynical? on a side note as some of us have songs in our heads ,mines a little premature here goes. “Ding dong the witch is dead”. ruth lee
Reply
 

 Grace says:

 September 28, 2015 at 2:41 pm
 

ruthless,
I think you’re on to something there. I would say that would be what the assessor or whatever his title is doing. Watch out for a “for sale” sign out front of your KH!
Reply
 

 JB Reezner says:

 September 28, 2015 at 5:57 pm
 

Either that, or watch out that the ROOF doesn’t fall down on your head! With the GB’s new allergy to spending money, they’re probably wanting to make SURE that none of the Kingdom Halls out there are getting any “unnecessary” repairs, like functioning toilets and lights that come on when you flip the switch.
“ruthless”– That was cute Grace. I don’t know if you meant to do that, but it gave me a chuckle. :)
Reply
 

 Grace says:

 September 28, 2015 at 6:02 pm
 

Oops! No I didn’t mean that to happen. Damned automatic spelling.
Reply
 

 ruthlee says:

 September 29, 2015 at 1:23 am
 

Dear Grace…. disgraceful!!!!! when we meet up i might just adopt your new handle for me. I just love being an aposty right now the new kind of miracle wheat. (those with long long memories will know my reference). any way ruthless or ruthlee i WILL print my thoughts on this site when allowed of course and all the regulars keep up the sterling work. Thanks Cedars once again you can’t begin to really imagine how valuable your work is and continues to be. ruthlee

 
 
 
 

 Tara says:

 September 28, 2015 at 6:41 pm
 

Ha ha funny you said that because I was tempted to go buy a FOR SALE sign and put it up on the fence during the night… naughty me…
Reply
 

 Grace says:

 September 28, 2015 at 6:59 pm
 

Haha Tara,
You & I have a similar sense of humour. Make sure it’s one that says “quick sale” or “liquidation sale”.
Reply
 

 Grace says:

 September 28, 2015 at 7:06 pm
 

Or better still, one that says “Business for sale”.

 
 

 Tara says:

 September 29, 2015 at 7:09 am
 

Yard Sale springs to mind.

 
 
 
 
 
 

 The Swede says:

 September 28, 2015 at 1:37 pm
 

Excellent info Cedar. Can’t wait to see the Watchtower put out of action.
Reply
 
 

 will says:

 September 28, 2015 at 2:13 pm
 

The society’s emphasis on videos (as per your video) during the meeting is just Watchtower having more control on what’s said. The elders are idiots, so they have to deliver the talks the right way. I remember a number of years ago when we were discouraged from using outside sources for talks. Apparently, the Society’s publications have everything we need. Again, control. Lloyd, thanks for the information!!!
Reply
 
 

 J*L*C*R says:

 September 28, 2015 at 2:21 pm
 

Down, down, down…in a burning ring of fire! :)
After everything we have all gone through; I know nothing would make me happier than to see this cult crash and burn.
Sing it Johnny Cash!


Reply
 

 Grace says:

 September 28, 2015 at 2:46 pm
 

J*L*C*R,
Good one, now I have that song stuck in my head.
I didn’t realise how much I actually dislike this religion for what it has done to so many peoples lives. My mum always taught us not to hate because it rots you inside so I have tried not to hate but every now & then I get these thoughts of absolute disgust in my head & feel a hatred towards the cult.
Reply
 

 J*L*C*R says:

 September 28, 2015 at 5:27 pm
 

@Grace,
 Yeah…LOL, sorry about the tune. πŸ˜‰

As an ex JW I also feel anger towards this religion/cult because of the many years I wasted in it; most of which were my childhood and young adult years.
I try not to let anger and hatred in though, for anyone or anything. In the end, the only person that such feelings hurt are ourselves.
The best thing that any of us can do is live our new lives to the full and in freedom.
Good luck to you.
Reply
 

 Grace says:

 September 28, 2015 at 6:14 pm
 

Thank you J*L*C*R.
Actually I like that old tune, it was always one every one sang after a hot chilli dinner.
Reply
 

 Tara says:

 September 28, 2015 at 6:46 pm
 

we don’t need no Gov-ning body,
 we don’t need no thought control,
 no dark sarcasm from the elders,
 Jackson ‘leave those kids alone….
Hey Watchtower… leave those kids alone!
 All in all your just another brick in the hall.


 
 
 
 
 
 

 will says:

 September 28, 2015 at 2:21 pm
 

WOW!! Your closing on the video is powerful. Shunning is shameful. The 1/8/1947 Watchtower blasted the Catholic Church for its excommunication policy, even saying it’s “foreign to Bible teaching.” Fast forward only a few years and they adopt the Church’s policy.
Reply
 
 

 1914 ha ha ha says:

 September 28, 2015 at 2:25 pm
 

Ruthlee, the gov bodys song must be, rage against the machine, ”killing i in the name of”.I dont know if you know the song,hell you would probably face a jc, just for listening to it.lol.
Reply
 

 ruthlee says:

 September 29, 2015 at 1:47 am
 

sure hell yeh! ima muso, any Warhead anyone? thats directed at you JB Reezer. Sorry all off topic to bring it back.My hammerheaded hubby finally had the penny drop in his dear ol brain He was referring to the broadcast about all the new KHs needed and now all work has stopped He got that dawning moment. Funny really, IM disgusted over Biblical things and doctrinal differences.He is glimmering awake over money. So my thought is that these throwaway bethelites will not wake up unless they are hit in the empty purse. There is no way they would give up that ivory tower lifestyle. Maybe this cull is God’s way of making an escape route out of the tower.One more thing and I have said this again and again and I am not popular MY drop comment is “How is it as soon as you make the little ones pioneer, you steal them away to play with bricks and buckets? I thought the preaching was the most important thing.And we NEVER see them preaching on a Sunday “it’s their day off. Funny that it’s worldly peoples day off too but from a proper job.I can’t count the many hours i do helping the forgotten sisters the widows with no real estate so not courted by the CO.I don’t want to record the damn hours it’s my honour and joy to help our dear abandoned ones who already have been shunned in the nicest possible way.Guess what we sit and read the Bible together just like the good ol days Bible students but of course that would be frowned upon.My conclusion no win no fee cant win with this cult dont care. Any one know The Cult we serve a hollow man waiting for a revolution but i remain your sweet soul sister ruthlee
Reply
 
 
 

 sammy says:

 September 28, 2015 at 2:41 pm
 

The translation in french of this pagehttp://www.jehovahforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1013&p=5877#p5877
Reply
 
 

 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 September 28, 2015 at 2:46 pm
 

“Purge” is what I can see in the game the GB has played for now years.
Their irrational teaching gives them opportunities to “purge” the organization where reasoning people leave and the GB ensures it is followed by spiritually traumatized “blind led by the blind”!!
Believe me, such people are found everywhere in the world!!
 *** w99 3/1 p. 24 Over 40 Years Under Communist Ban ***
 The Watchtower of April 1, 1956, reported that “a great purge” of Jehovah’s Witnesses was carried out on April 1, 7, and 8, 1951. “These are dates unforgettable by Jehovah’s witnesses in Russia,” The Watchtower explained. “On these three days all of Jehovah’s witnesses that could be found in Western Ukraine, White Russia [Belarus], Bessarabia, Moldavia, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia—more than seven thousand men and women . . . were loaded in carts, carried to railroad stations and there put in cattle cars and sent far away.”

Reply
 
 

 J.B. Reezner says:

 September 28, 2015 at 2:47 pm
 

Okay okay Lloyd, I’ll stop saying that they have a fortune, lol! Interestingly though, under your “What lies in store?” section, you state almost EXACTLY what I suspect the ultimate fate of the Org will be– possibly even giving them a little more benefit of the doubt than I do.
Given their substantial worldwide holdings–including every single KH on planet Earth–I simply expect that they will end up with enough bucks in the bank to easily, VERY comfortably sustain a half-dozen or so cult leaders and their efforts to maintain a meager following of either completely brainwashed people, and/or completely brain-DAMAGED people for quite awhile. The dumbing down even further of the main offerings seems to indicate that they’ve already resigned themselves to that eventuality.
Another minor point (since you asked): To say that those who believe the Org is unlikely to go from billions to zero in a few years see the Org as “too worthy an adversary to ever be vanquished” is a little bit creepy. I would say the situation is more of a Brewster’s Millions thing. That is to say, it can be fairly hard to blow a fortune in a short amount of time. If you haven’t seen the picture, I highly recommend it. It’s a documentary featuring R. Pryor, once one of America’s leading financial experts. πŸ˜‰
Having said all that, I’m not actually presumptuous enough to think you had me in mind at any point during the writing of this excellent article. It just seemed a more fun way to approach this comment. Thanks for all of the new hope-inspiring info!
Reply
 
 

 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 September 28, 2015 at 2:55 pm
 

I have really failed to understand who is behind this organization! Satan or Jehovah, I can’t tell the difference!
Consider the following:
*** w97 1/1 p. 24 Giving Up Much for Something Greater ***
 One day I began to read an article in The Watchtower that described the brutal persecution of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Malawi. It told of a 15-year-old girl who was tied to a tree and raped six times because she refused to compromise her faith. Deeply shocked, I dropped the magazine, but I kept thinking about it. I realized that no girl in my church would show that sort of faith. Later that evening, I took up the magazine and read the page again.

Reply
 
 

 Awake! says:

 September 28, 2015 at 3:10 pm
 

@Tara
 Thunderbirds are awesome!!! Of course, the WTBTS are NO Thunderbirds! LOL — Case in point: I recently viewed some Youtube clips of the Australia Royal Commission, and was surprised to learn that Geoffrey Jackson (Mr. “This is our Constitution”) dropped out of high school (at 15, if memory serves) to “pioneer”. So here is a high-school dropout who believes he is qualified to sit on a panel of individuals who believe THEY are qualified to dictate to 8 million other individuals, how to live their lives!!! INTERESTING!!!

Reply
 
 

 rob says:

 September 28, 2015 at 3:50 pm
 

Consolidate into one compound. Close branches, stop all construction, divest of human capital and then start to sell off properties worldwide. No explanation given and no accountability for these actions. Everyone accepts and follows with no questions asked.
Create urgency, tell everyone that for sure now the end is so close.
Then just sit back and enjoy the cushy life in a cushy resort in upstate New York with lots of money in the bank.
They really have it all figured out.
But God is watching.
Reply
 

 Awake! says:

 September 28, 2015 at 3:57 pm
 

There’s always a bigger fish. lol
Reply
 
 

 RobertoPerez67 says:

 September 28, 2015 at 4:36 pm
 

They would have gotten away with it too, if it weren’t for those meddling apostates.
Reply
 
 

 jacqueline says:

 September 28, 2015 at 6:35 pm
 

Rob, I think it is part of the delusion that God is watching. He does not consider them any different than other similar sects. He never was with them. They don’t really matter to him it is just the witnesses that are affected by them. The other people in the world doesn’t even care. I once thought he will get THEM! but was a fool for not thinking for myself once I got 18. But we can be happy to say we saw it in time and got out. Take Care
Reply
 

 Gameisover says:

 September 29, 2015 at 12:46 am
 

I think God is watching as He does all
 cults. sects, religions (and not) worldwide and sees those individuals who honestly want to worship, serve Him in some way, those who would like to believe but are too disappointed with what they see. People are precious to Him.

I am convinced that for those who did and do what they believe is right in the matter of religion, whichever the group, it’s ok.
I don’t want to think that the past 50 years
 We’re an utter waste.

Reply
 

 Gameisover says:

 September 29, 2015 at 4:48 am
 

were
Reply
 
 
 
 
 

 John Plummer says:

 September 28, 2015 at 4:29 pm
 

Lloyd, you are not “getting ahead of yourself” re the demise of the Watchtower Society. I recently had a conversation with a (current) active Witness about the “1914 overlapping generation” and he agreed with me that the Society cannot get away with claiming that someone born a few months before the last person who witnessed the year 1914 passes away, “counts” as part of that overlapping generation. He estimated that Armageddon must come within the next 20 years. When I asked him what he would do if it didn’t come and showed no signs of coming… he shrugged his shoulders and had no answer for me.
My guess is that long before 20 years the game will be up. The G.B. will be bleating that it “misinterpreted” that 2010 overlapping generation “increased light” from Jehovah. But, if they admit they got that light wrong, what about all the other “increased lights”? What about the no-blood “light” revealed in 1945? And if they truly did misinterpret the overlapping generation light, why didn’t Jehovah immediately correct them? According to the Feb 15 2006 Watchtower Jehovah uses that “increased light” to constantly “refine” His people, “organizationally, doctrinally and morally”. How moral would it be of a perfect God to allow His people to continue preaching a lie with regard to the timing of Armageddon?!
Reply
 
 

 Sheree Stokell says:

 September 28, 2015 at 4:35 pm
 

Good stuff. Interestingly, a Nigerian jw recently lamented on Facebook that work to build halls in Nigeria had been stopped. This dovetails with what your bethel sources have reported.
Reply
 
 

 Ted says:

 September 28, 2015 at 4:49 pm
 

I can see Warwick with its luxury accommodations.
 sports facilities and acreage, as ideal for renting out
 to big corporations. For conferences and team building.

Other than that it seems to have little practical purpose.
 Just a grandiose scheme, born of vain, pompous, self
 Important and deluded minds. I just can’t connect it to
 spreading the Gospel, or to Christianity in any way, shape
 or form.

Reply
 

 Tara says:

 September 29, 2015 at 7:00 am
 

So it’s the JW version of Vatican City. Where all the wealth of the JW church will be hidden to get them through Armageddon. Or the huge ‘arks’ that are being built to store vast amounts of seeds etc for the coming Apocalypse. Sorry vast amount of faithful minions you have been found wanting and you shall not enter. This wretched hive of scum and villainy built to carry the chosen 7 through into the new world…. and a finger poked out of heaven and a searing blue light was seen to emit from the finger and all that once was Warwick went ‘POOF’. and the finger was raised back unto the heavens and a nose like someone blowing down the barrel of a gun that had just been discharged was heard by all the minions of the earth and there was great rejoicing in the land.
Reply
 

 Tara says:

 September 29, 2015 at 7:01 am
 

or even a noise
Reply
 
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 29, 2015 at 12:13 pm
 

@Tara . Warwick is Maybe 7 MIDGETS Version of Rutherfords Version of BETH SARIM ??
Reply
 

 Tara says:

 September 29, 2015 at 6:14 pm
 

Oh ya! with more rooms and a Tracy island lake!
Reply
 
 
 

 Excelsior! says:

 September 30, 2015 at 5:40 am
 

Tara,
The big difference between the Vatican and Warwick is that the Vatican is a separate country!
I also love your quoting of Obi Wan Kenobi! The WTBTS is a wretched hive of scum and villainy indeed!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 
 

 1914 ha ha ha says:

 September 28, 2015 at 5:15 pm
 

Ceders, i think the term ”fire sale” comes to mind. ( Im not sure it might be ”fire cell”) If in doubt watch diehard 4.0 This ones for the gb. Yippie ki a, mutha ,better stop there.lol.
Reply
 
 

 Slave says:

 September 28, 2015 at 5:25 pm
 

I am vey interested in all that has been said so far, and this might have been mentioned already but I believe the reason the Warwick progress photos were pulled was not because of the diver photo but more importantly the pictures of the apartments and the associated caption. Just my opinion but the idea of getting kicked to the curb while the headquarters staff pick their personnel residence out of the beautiful apartments shown might be too much for some bethelites to handle.
Reply
 
 

 Garrett says:

 September 28, 2015 at 6:13 pm
 

Something for all of us to ponder.
 If we appreciate Lloyds hard work ….
Are we making a contribution to him?
 I sent in a donation for the first time last week.
 It will be the first of many.
 Lloyd spends sick amounts of time dealing with all of this stuff. He has a family, bills and a house that never seems to get any further on in progress. Those in Bethel have someone to share insider info with ONLY because Lloyd so selfishly puts himself out there to have a website and deal with all this crap that he would just like to be done with.
 Let me make sure we are all givers as well.
 I say this as my own reminder as well.
 If everyone chips in he won’t have to choose between feeding his family and doing activist work.
 Best of wishes to all of you my kin.
 One day we will all celebrate the WT downfall together. Heads up. Our deliverance is near.

Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 28, 2015 at 7:25 pm
 

@Garret. REALLY REALLY EXCELLENT COMMENTS You have made!!!
Reply
 
 

 ScotWm says:

 September 28, 2015 at 10:39 pm
 

JWsurvey is indeed a worthy cause which certainly deserves all contributions it receives. Since its inception in 2011, this site has provided a library of nearly 200 in-depth Watchtower topics.
After providing a long list of negative factors affecting the Watchtower cult, Lloyd provided the following summary:
“Not only is the Society unable to function in the longterm with this state of affairs, they are already experiencing a negative impact as the money starts to dry up. This has resulted in drastic measures being taken to reduce costs, abandon expansion plans, and gather in funds from anywhere they can think of.”
This accurate statement came from Cedar’s blog, posted on April 23, 2012.
I would advise everyone to go back to the beginning and browse through the wealth of information provided by JWsurvey:
http://jwsurvey.org/category/cedars-blog/page/17
Reply
 
 

 Billy Sugger says:

 September 29, 2015 at 1:31 am
 

Garrett,
I gave him 20p for a lolly when I worked with his Mum and himself in service, he was about 8 or 9 at the time, I’m sure that counts.
OK, OK……I’ll send him another 20p.
Reply
 
 

 Keith says:

 September 29, 2015 at 3:50 am
 

Money poisons the well.
 This is what we do for love of our fellow man.
 What we give our lives for in war.
 its called self sacrifice.

Reply
 
 

 Pburford says:

 September 29, 2015 at 6:53 am
 

@Garrett, great point you made. I will start contributing myself.
Reply
 
 

 Panhandlegirl says:

 September 29, 2015 at 6:55 am
 

@Garrett,
 Agree and will do. If/when we benefit from so much effort on Lloyd’s part, we need to fund this benefit
 we are receiving.After all, he is not a Bethelite, he has a life,a family,one of us, and needs to be compensated for his work.

Reply
 
 
 

 Grace says:

 September 28, 2015 at 6:20 pm
 

Garret,
So true, I was only thinking that myself the other day. I only have PayPal though. Might have to get a Visa card.
Reply
 

 ScotWm says:

 September 28, 2015 at 8:13 pm
 

I live in California and I used the PayPal option to donate to JWsurvey. This can be found by clicking the DONATE button near the top right side of this page.
I don’t know how PayPal works in other countries. Also, if you buy a prepaid VISA card, you may need to make sure that it can be used worldwide.
Reply
 

 Grace says:

 September 28, 2015 at 8:30 pm
 

Thank you Scot, that was really easy.
Reply
 

 ScotWm says:

 September 28, 2015 at 10:41 pm
 

You are very welcome Grace.
Reply
 
 

 ScotWm says:

 September 28, 2015 at 10:54 pm
 

You are most welcome Grace.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 

 Kieren says:

 September 28, 2015 at 6:35 pm
 

A brilliant article Lloyd. You aced this one! Recognition/appreciation also goes to the bethelites who are Disseminating this information from the inside
Reply
 
 

 1914 ha ha ha says:

 September 28, 2015 at 6:55 pm
 

I still find it hard to believe how these greedy b@$€¶#£$ can throw everyone and there hopes and there halls under bus, after robbing all the kh savings and stand there smileing. You can bet the money grab gets worst.
Reply
 
 

 ScotWm says:

 September 28, 2015 at 8:45 pm
 

Regarding: “They are seeing branches closed, construction work halted, and face lay-offs on an unprecedented scale in the interests of cutting costs, while the Governing Body is lavishing dedicated funds on outside contractors just so they can have their own remote-controlled lake.”
On the other hand, the Watchtower Governing Body would have cult members believe that their contributions are not being devoted exclusively to construction of the Warwick palace and grounds:
From the JW dot ORG website: “In each congregation, there are boxes clearly labeled “Contributions for the Worldwide Work—Matthew 24:14.” These funds are used in a variety of ways according to the need, including the construction of Kingdom Halls. Such funds are not used to pay salaried executives because Jehovah’s Witnesses have none.”
Perhaps no Watchtower “salaried executives” are being used — just salaried outside contractors.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2002362#h=21
Reply
 

 Tara says:

 September 29, 2015 at 8:37 am
 

Haven’t they recently changed the boxes at the back of the halls… I wasn’t paying much attention but I think ‘Local contribution box’ has gone and now it all goes into one with some fancy name. I could be wrong but I’m a woman so probably not πŸ˜‰
Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 29, 2015 at 9:35 am
 

@Tara .. I think You are RIGHT.. My EYESIGHT isn’t too good these days But I am sure the NEW CONTRIBUTION BOX is Labelled … ‘LUNCH BOX for 7 MIDGETS of BROOKLYN ‘
Reply
 

 Tara says:

 September 29, 2015 at 4:05 pm
 

You funny πŸ˜‰ The song ‘Charities fine, subscribe to mine’ springs to mine, get out and pick a pocket or two’ springs to mind.
Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 3:02 pm
 

@Tara . Which One is FAGAN?? LETTS or MORRIS or JACKSON !!

 
 
 

 Awake! says:

 September 29, 2015 at 5:48 pm
 

@Pickled Brain
 PRICELESS!!! LMAO!!!
 But I would add “MENTAL”, as in “7 MENTAL MIDGETS of BROOKLYN”. Still hilarious though.

Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 3:00 pm
 

@Awake . Sorry my friend .. A slip of my MENTAL TONGUE or Should I say MENTAL FINGER??!
 Ooohh !! …this is beginning to sound ‘ X’ RATED ??


 
 
 
 
 
 

 VinceDamiano says:

 September 28, 2015 at 9:36 pm
 

The WTBTS is doing what it supposed to as a corporation, that is, cutting costs, streamlining, laying off, and optimizing operations in the name of profit. All things point to a corporation and not an organization led by God.
With the bad press on JW’s and notions of cult like activity, the bethelites better think twice about putting the WTBTS on their resume if they want a job in society.
Getting let go is a hard pill to swallow and resentment will run rampant. This will lead to ‘BOSTATES’ that is Bethelites turned apostates (first to coin the phrase). Jw’s will then follow the lead of the bostates.
Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 28, 2015 at 11:29 pm
 

@Vince.. REALLY LOVE the Terminology ‘BOSTATES’!! .. Brilliant … But you are right !! Young JWs who have SACRIFICED a GOOD EDUCATION to work at BETHEL & SACRIFICED Good Job Prospects only to be THROWN OUT on the SCRAPHEAP & Told to RELY on JEHOVAH will not go down to well Because that is what they did by going to Bethel!
 How about CHUCKING the 7 MIDGETS of the GB out of WARWICK to Get a Job & Rely on Jehovah! .. I have seen 7 VACANCIES at our Local MACDONALDS they could Apply for !!

Reply
 

 Awake! says:

 September 29, 2015 at 7:23 pm
 

@Pickled Brain
 Re: 7 vacancies at McDonalds — I doubt the 7 mental midgets would be qualified! Plus, they could never handle the stress. I’ve seen how some of those McD’s servers and frycooks hustle!!

Reply
 
 
 

 Ready 4 to Fade says:

 September 28, 2015 at 11:48 pm
 

I prefer the anti-typical bethelite. πŸ˜‰
Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 29, 2015 at 3:54 am
 

Ready 4 to Fade. Good comment . Wasn’t FRED FRANZ an Anti- Typical Bethelite or Maybe RAY FRANZ?? as they Practically Chucked him out of bethel !!
Reply
 
 
 
 

 enuffsenuff says:

 September 29, 2015 at 12:30 am
 

I haven’t seen the Splane video on the “overlap, and don’t want to, but the issue of the 144 000 is an interesting one. The bible gives no time frame for the selection process other than it began after Christ died and concludes sometime before Armageddon. Meaning that Christ would offer that offer to those that wanted it and met his criteria of that group, until the number was filled. Unlike the WT’s view that it more or less stopped in 1935 is unsupportable.
 Which brings us to Math 24:34-35 which says, “this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.” He adds that “heaven and earth” would pass away but his words wont. The first question might be is there anything there that says the “generation” is referring to the anointed? Not as far as I can see. It was just humankind in general.

So logically who would comprise that generation? I need to say many on this page if 1914 is the correct time. I think it is, not because of the WT, rather in spite of them, but others will draw their own conclusions.
 In the Awake article of April 1988 the WT quotes The New International Dictionary of the New Testament of Theology, (I like it when they quote from external sources, it avoids spin) which discusses the Greek word “genea” (generation)and defines it, Those born at the same time… associated with this is the meaning- the body of ones contemporaries, an age. A Greek English Lexicon of the NT states- “the sum total of those born at the same time, expanded, to include… all those living at a given time generation, contemporaries.

What all that means is all those who were “alive” during the year 1914 whether they were 8 or 80 yrs old or a new born child, comprise that generation.
Thus when I first became a witness in the late sixties the discussion always centred around how old you had to be so that you could understand what was going on around you and so be part of that generation.
Looking back, it was a silly question. The operative word according to the dictionaries above, is, were you “alive” not were you anointed, or did you understand.
 Understanding the events was not needed you just had to be alive. A contemporary.

Because the GB have sought to justify their “calling” as anointedin view of the verses mentioned and because of their erroneous/ false view that the generation had to be anointed, they suspended belief in the Master’s words that generation would not pass away and invented the “overlap theory” to explain what they see as a fault in the prophecy. How cynical can they be?
 But is there a fault in the prophecy? The reader has to make up their own mind. But if you Google the question “how many people born in 1914 are still alive” you may very well be quite surprised. I checked a few months ago and around the world it is estimated that there is over a million still going. The rate of decline is fast though.

Also I point out the obvious was Christ crowned as king in 1914 since no human saw that and neither were we meant to? It is a personal matter of individual faith. We will all find out one way or the other as to who gets it right, time decides.
While talking about Greek words, I often see the WT refer to, “the great tribulation.” A careful look at a English interlinear of a Greek text shows that the definite article “ho” (in English, the) does not appear in front of the words “great tribulation” in Math 24.
 What this means is, that great trib’n is a period of time not an event in time as the WT claims. The reality seems to be that we are having great trib’n now, beginning 1914. If we aren’t try telling some of the Syrian refugees fleeing for their lives that they face a GT somewhere future. They would laugh. What worse things could a Gt do to them than what they already have?
 All things being equal I try to keep an open mind and think for myself.

Reply
 
 

 GEM says:

 September 29, 2015 at 1:10 am
 

I apologise if this comment causes offence to any of our U.S. posters but I have to say it.
Watchtower work and business ethics reflects the American Hire and Fire culture. If you are broken cog in the machinery or surplus to needs…you are disposed of. Time and again I hear stories here in the U.K of men and women who are laid off, redundant, three weeks or so before Christmas so that when the Stock Exchange bell tolls on January 2nd, the Accountants can present a healthy report on Company assets and funds. No feeling for the poor bu**ers who have put their heart and soul into their career and family!
Same applies to American Foreign Policy…as long as the Yankee Dollar is safe… sod the consequences for those in its all invasive path. Makes my blood boil!
Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 29, 2015 at 1:27 pm
 

@Gem . You Don’t need to Apologise . I feel the same way . The 7 MIDGETS in their BUSINESS SUITS, FLASH WATCHES & RINGS . .. NOT to MENTION the EXTRAVAGANT LAKESIDE HQ at WARWICK & FANCY PLUSH TV STUDIO & WEBSITE …. ALL COSTING TENs of MILLIONs of DOLLARS !! These 7 PYGMIES are COPYING their IDOL… JUDGE RUTHERFORD & BETH SARIM & FANCY CADILLACs he Drove & Flash Suits he wore!!…. Now Contrast that with JOHN the BAPTIST & what he wore & ate … Simple Food & Clothes & What about Jesus who had nowhere to Lay his head or Apostle Paul who worked as a TENTMAKER so as not to be a Financial BURDEN on the Brothers!! … HMmmmm !!!
Reply
 

 Awake! says:

 September 29, 2015 at 5:54 pm
 

I’d love to see the gb eat a plate of locusts. lol
Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 3:06 pm
 

@Awake .. I would LOVE to SEE them EAT a ….’FIELD of LOCUSTS’ !!!
Reply
 
 
 
 
 

 jake says:

 September 29, 2015 at 1:27 am
 

Waco, sorry Warwick.
Reply
 
 

 Holy Connoli says:

 September 29, 2015 at 2:48 am
 

I Shared some of the “Secret” information Lloyd gave us about the changes coming to the WT etc with my Pioneer wife who is off to the annual meeting in NYC. She received tickets from the GB and she is so PROUD that she was “chosen” to go. When I told her beforehand what was going to be happening she was stunned! She demanded to know where I received that information so I told her I have a friend at Bethel( Theocratic Warfare! lol) who was sharing information. She said what is his name ?
 She wants to KNOW so bad where I find out this info from!
 I felt like she wanted to snitch on him/her to the GB connections she has. SO I said ok his name is Steve Hansen ( made up name ) of course she did not believe me. I Said what difference does it make if you know his name or not? She said you should not have that information before it is announced! She is a very delusional JW who believes the WT an GB can do know wrong and everything they do is for the Kingdom etc.

Anyway she is off to WT land and will be in her own Nirvana for a few days. I hope she doesn’t drink the Cool-Aid when they pass it around at the Annual meeting.
Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 3:08 pm
 

@Holy Connoli .. DITTO .. My Wife is like yours!! Show you how the GB DIVIDE FAMILIES !!
Reply
 
 
 

 Wanderer says:

 September 29, 2015 at 3:00 am
 

My parents Hall has been sold. They were given talks by The Society showing JWs in Africa meeting in tents & under trees etc. then they were told the proceeds from the sale of their hall would build 10 halls in Africa. Does anyone know if there is a large building program in Africa?
I don’t want to upset my elderly parents, but they keep on saying that once The Society showed them how happy the African brothers are with their new halls how could the congregation say no to selling their hall.
I just feel like they have all been duped, they are an elderly congregation in a working class suburb who all worked and saved very hard to pay off their hall many years ago.
Reply
 

 Giac says:

 September 29, 2015 at 3:37 am
 

@Wanderer: where did this selling occurred?
 I am in Scotland, UK and so far we have not heard anythung like this happening. Although I can see it coming if the WTBTS need more funds to pay lost court cases and building project(s). We are indeed living in interesting times for the Org. let’s and wait and see.

Reply
 
 
 

 Big Brother says:

 September 29, 2015 at 4:48 am
 

The WTS is a corporation passing off as a religious organisation. That is why after perpetrating advance salvation fraud on us witnesses, and we are now seeing through it, the self-appointed, self-styled FDS aka GB is adopting a corporate business strategy to downsize, and enjoy the booty they fleeced us of with their few cronies.
Reply
 
 

 Average Joe says:

 September 29, 2015 at 6:28 am
 

Just a quick question to those of you in the know…
Do hurricanes occur frequently in New York state then?

I wonder where the water goes to once the level of the lake has been lowered with their fancy new valve replacement? Hmmm
Reply
 

 Pburford says:

 September 29, 2015 at 7:01 am
 

@Average Joe… I had read this off there site about the new valve, and thought at the time about the mentioned hurricane how odd that was…
Reply
 
 

 eyes opened says:

 September 29, 2015 at 7:18 am
 

Hi average Joe, hurricanes Irene and Sandy both hit New York. Major flooding especially in the Catskills when Irene hit.
Reply
 
 

 Joe Smith says:

 September 29, 2015 at 8:37 am
 

Although I come from Africa I was kinda wondering the same thing !
Reply
 
 
 

 Pburford says:

 September 29, 2015 at 7:04 am
 

@Lloyd… I like how you compared them to Scientology. I actually had this same thought the other day reading something off your blog….
Reply
 
 

 keinlezard says:

 September 29, 2015 at 7:53 am
 

Hello,
 But picture is always :) … not directly , but always here

http://assets.jw.org/assets/m/ijw16ac/502016504/ijw16ac_id-502016504.art/502016504_univ_gal_20_lg.jpg
Reply
 
 

 RobertoPerez67 says:

 September 29, 2015 at 9:24 am
 

So, close…Lets see if we can chip a little further into the psychological torture that millions are submitted tohttps://www.change.org/p/launch-an-investigation-to-determine-if-jehovah-s-witnesses-have-a-right-to-use-coercion-forms-of-mental-torture-to-force-its-members-not-to-leave
Reply
 

 RobertoPerez67 says:

 September 29, 2015 at 9:30 am
 

It already has a little over 6,000 signatures and needs 7,000 for an official investigation to begin. Hopeing for something similar to the Australian Rotal Commision here in the states.
Reply
 
 
 

 Searcher says:

 September 29, 2015 at 9:39 am
 

I agree with most who are also blogging here. This is typical of a large corporation downsizing, selling off, and then enjoying the profits. The GB and cronies at Brooklyn are basically getting ready for a trade-in and up-grade in living. Of course you have to pump it up and then dump the hapless worker bees. That’s typical of a corporation’s PR before the axe falls.
I really feel for the rank and file of this organization. They are the ones who get it in the end. Just like the underlings of the Pharasees in Jesus’ day; sheered and thrown about.
Reply
 
 

 Prodigal son says:

 September 29, 2015 at 10:31 am
 

This my assessment of the situation. They need that check for the rest of those properties in Brooklyn real bad so they’re putting all their effort into Warwick. Remember they haven’t moved out of Brooklyn yet. So they haven’t got paid yet for them. Gets call robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Reply
 

 Grace says:

 September 29, 2015 at 5:03 pm
 

That makes sense that they need to rob Peter to pay Paul to try to get the lakeside retirement villa ready to move in to but what gets me is that they spin it to sound like they have to now “urgently preach” to distract everyone from questioning their decisions.
So when they start their grand rebuilding projects again what will they tell everyone about the preaching work being urgent?
They’re just full of stinky gas that’s blowing out of their backsides.
Reply
 
 
 

 Ted says:

 September 29, 2015 at 10:48 am
 

Watched the “Shawshank Redemption” last night, and the
 scene where the old lag ( con,) paroled after 50 years of
 Institutionalisation was unable to deal with life outside.
 He ended up hanging himself .

This put me in mind, particularly of long term Bethel servers.
 Who after living for many years, in a centrally heated,
 every thing provided, and insulated system, are to be thrown
 out, without any support, into the real world.

Am I being too dramatic? I don’t think so ! An elderly bro,
 gave a talk to a class of elders. He was extolling Bethel life,
 then he said, ( with great passion and fervour). “I’d sooner
 be DEAD than out there” ( Meaning in the world.)

Suicides? I certainly hope not! but there will be plenty of
 problems both practical and emotional. What a reward for
 years of free labour. They stand condemned by standards
 of human decency, and by the book they claim to follow.

Reply
 

 ruthlee says:

 September 29, 2015 at 11:53 am
 

“By the book they claim to follow”. You did it again Ted! those words sum up what we see before us. They have totally forgotten The Good Book and what it stands for .It is very shameful.Some will be lemmings and casualties others maybe lucky and scooped up by friends and relatives.Is it me or have they really not taken God into account at all? Surely the bethelites have tiny brains that work they cannot all have come from stepford.It’s getting crazy now whilst we wait. Blessings to you and yours ruthlee
Reply
 

 Robert67 says:

 September 29, 2015 at 2:07 pm
 

Very interesting point Ruthlee. I do recall a few years ago we recieved one of the previously laid off bethelites as a special pioneer at our congregation after having served 20 plus years in his assignment. Well, if you’ve ever seen the movie Jack with Robin Williams you’ll understand the kid in a grown ups body, trying his very best to pretend to be a grown up. He was absolutely clueless as to the actual hurdles witnesses in the real world have to go through in order to survive and put food on the table, keep their homes, manage teenagers. I believe what really changed him was one of the judicial cases that most impacted me. A young boy of 13 years that was baptized in full love of Jehovah and with Bethel in his sights was seduced by a 17 year old relative of witnesses and committed fornication. We had just viewed the video that traveled with the overseer a few weeks prior on how to deal with the situation and damned if senior elders didnt insist on ignoring the kid and his good standing families pleas for mercy in order to just stick to what Jehovah showed he wanted in that video. This bethelite to his credit did state that the whole thing was wrong. He couldn’t understand that these line manager elders were completely incapable of sticking with scripture for any decision. You have no idea the anger I feel at myself for not having told that family what I wanted to say. Like a good pos elder I supported what the majority pushed for. Never again.
Reply
 
 
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 29, 2015 at 12:08 pm
 

@Ted . NO I don’t think you are DRAMATIC at all. I Think you are SO RIGHT after being COSSETTED for so long having everything done .., WASHING,IRONING,COOKING, BILLs PAID,NO TAXES, JOB FOR LIFE Until Armageddon??… NO REAL TESTS of FAITH as SURROUNDED by People who Believe the Same Things, Etc …, such a SHELTERED & ARTIFICIAL LIFE… You Mention Possible SUICIDES!….. WELL I Think you could be SO ACCURATE in your Assessment !! … The SHOCK that maybe the MAGNIFICENT SEVEN’might not be SO MAGNIFICENT after all!! & NEW LIGHT might be no better than a LIGHT BULB Hanging from the Ceiling !! VERY SAD for ALL Those WASTED LIVES of what could have been ?
Reply
 

 Awake! says:

 September 29, 2015 at 6:04 pm
 

Any Bethelites on this site, tell your friends (the ones you can trust). It will give you at least the psychological bracing you will need if the unthinkable happens and you end up on your a** out in the cold, cold world — Don’t worry, it’s not as bad as you’ve been led to believe. But you WILL need new life skills, as well as marketable employment skills. Take advantage of ALL financial resources, including family, friends, and Biff Brother (government), to acquire said marketable skills. Be smart. Plan ahead. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it!!!
Reply
 
 
 

 Ready 4 to Fade says:

 September 29, 2015 at 1:06 pm
 

When I was a bethelite, a group of us once watched the Shawshank Redemption and were blown away by the similarities.
Reply
 
 
 

 James says:

 September 29, 2015 at 11:21 am
 

Sorry if this comment duplicates. I left it yesterday but can’t find it.
I just wanted to throw a prediction out there: eventually, the Watchtower won’t be able to use the “consolidation” or “streamlining” excuse. People will wonder why the Watchtower, who once bragged of their global footprint as evidence of God’s backing, no longer have that global footprint. If they lose significant numbers of members and properties, this is what will happen:
The Governing Body, probably through a video, will address their masses and drop the bombshell that we are, now, in fact, living in the GREAT TRIBULATION!!
This will affect JWs in different ways. Watchtower imagery (especially since the “Revelation” book) has portrayed the Great Tribulation and subsequent Armageddon as a Hollywood-disaster-movie-esque event with intense persecution around every corner, having to meet in secret, etc. Basically like a Holocaust with “true religion” members as the main victims.
So if the GB announces that due to “new light” and the “obvious” signs in the world that we are in the Great Tribulation, thinking Witnesses won’t buy it, hopefully.They’ll look outside and see that things are pretty much the same as they always have been.
Reply
 
 

 James says:

 September 29, 2015 at 11:25 am
 

And I can’t believe that the JW religion is turning into a video production company posing as a religion, instead of a printing company posing as a religion!
Reply
 
 

 Marques says:

 September 29, 2015 at 2:26 pm
 

I had to leave class while the ‘flag salute’ happened. I had no holidays as a child. I turned down a lot of great women because they weren’t JWs. I have lost 2 sisters and lots of great friends to the JWs. Its poetic justice to see the GB exposed for all of their spiritual crimes. Maybe now I can read Crisis of Conscience with my mother and laugh…I just went too far!!!!! Good article.
Reply
 
 

← Older Comments
Newer Comments →
 

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *
Name *
Email *
Website
Comment

applications-education-miscellaneous.png
Comment posting guidelines:
Kindly observe the following requirements before posting any comments to our articles or pages:
◾ABUSIVE COMMENTS - Do not post comments that include swear words or may be considered abusive, lewd, blasphemous, obscene or threatening
◾ILLEGAL COMMENTS - Do not post comments that condone or propose illegal activity, or that breach copyright law
◾OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS - Do not post comments that are off-topic and bear no relation to the page or article
◾RELIGIOUS NEUTRALITY - Do not post comments that are evangelical in nature or may be construed as imposing one person's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) over those of another
◾LANGUAGE - Visitors from all countries and language groups are welcome. You may post comments in languages other than English, but we would appreciate if you could make any such comments brief. We would also be grateful if you could run any such comments through Google Translate and convert these to English, but this is not an absolute requirement.
◾LINKS - You may post links to third party websites, so long as (1) you limit these to 2 links per comment, and (2) the content on these links doesn't contravene ANY of the first four points. Specifically, you may not post URLs to websites that are evangelical in nature. Our links page has an extensive list of such sites for any who are curious about Christian beliefs in the context of Jehovah's Witnesses.

JWSurvey.org thanks all visitors in advance for respectfully observing these guidelines. Any who persistently fail to do so, despite warnings, may find themselves blocked from making further comments at the discretion of the site moderators, whose decision will be final and not open for debate.
 
  


 Notify me of new posts by email.
  
 

 


Click on 
Visit JWfacts.com for more information on JW beliefs
Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses
JW Recovery forum
Barbara Anderson's Watchtower Documents resource
Visit JWstruggle.com for helpful information on exiting JW mind control Visit TAZE.co for discussion on Jehovah's Witness developments



 
 
Support JWsurvey
Help us make continued improvements to this website and its content.
 

       
 

Article Categories
◾Apostates (28)
◾Blood transfusions (12)
◾Books (5)
◾Cedars' Blog (217)
◾Cedars' Story (4)
◾Celebrity JWs (2)
◾Child Abuse (52)
◾Child Indoctrination (16)
◾Divine Direction (4)
◾Domestic Abuse (2)
◾Doomsday Predictions (1)
◾Downsizing (10)
◾Evolution and creation (6)
◾General Information (1)
◾Governing Body (35)
◾Higher education (3)
◾History and scandals (6)
◾JW.org (8)
◾Life Stories (10)
◾Mental health (5)
◾Mini-Surveys (5)
◾News (196)
◾Property sales (5)
◾Publications (6)
◾Shunning (13)
◾Support (6)
◾Survey (12)
◾Undue influence (16)
◾Warwick headquarters (5)


Search JWsurvey

  

Subscribe to JW Survey


Enter your email address to receive notices of new posts by email.
Join 860 other subscribers
Email Address  
    
 

Listen to JWpodcast

Check out the latest episode of JW podcast! 

Latest John Cedars video
 

Popular JW sites in other languages
Languages         
More languages...

Select... Croatian Czech Dutch Estonian Finnish 1 Finnish 2 French 1 French 2 French 3 German 1 German 2 Hungarian Italian 1 Italian 2 Italian 3 Japanese Polish 1 Polish 2 Polish 3 Portuguese 1 Portuguese 2 Romanian Russian 1 Russian 2 Russian 3 Serbian 1 Serbian 2 Serbian 3 Slovak Spanish 1 Spanish 2
 

Top Posts & Pages
Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter 
 Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter 

Theocratic Ministry School GONE as 2015 Annual Meeting announcements leaked in advance 
 Theocratic Ministry School GONE as 2015 Annual Meeting announcements leaked in advance 

Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick 
 Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick 

More downsizing on the way? Multiple sources report bethel letter warning of further cuts 
 More downsizing on the way? Multiple sources report bethel letter warning of further cuts 

Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh 
 Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh 

Dear Watchtower, THANK YOU for your "tight pants" copyright complaint! 
 Dear Watchtower, THANK YOU for your "tight pants" copyright complaint! 



 
 

Click on  

Open Offer

Open Offer to all bethelites
 Do you work at Brooklyn, Patterson or Wallkill? If so, please click here.


Our Promise
Making corrections
 Is there something incorrect or unfactual on this website? If so, please let us know and we will correct it.


2015 results at a glance
Number of respondents to the 2015 Global Survey
Site Stats
Visitor stats for JWsurvey

Like us on Facebook!







 
Cedars’ Twitter Feed
 

 
 
Who's Online
◾0 Members.
◾60 Guests.


Reader Comments
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter


Menu
◾About JW Survey
◾Contact Us
◾Experiences
◾Get Involved
◾Global Surveys ◾2011 Global Survey
◾2012 Global Survey
◾2013 Global Survey
◾2014 Global Survey
◾2015 Global Survey

◾JW Broadcasting
◾JWawake.com
◾Links
◾Videos
◾Welcome


Login
 ◾Login


Scan JWsurvey.org

 



Copyright © 2011-2013 JWsurvey.org. Site design and support by The Small Web Master.

    StatCounter - Free Web Tracker and Counter     




http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/watchtower-in-crisis-frustration-grows-at-bethel-as-governing-body-focuses-everything-on-warwick/comment-page-2#comments










Skip to content
JWsurvey 


Welcome

Cedars’ Blog

About JW Survey

Global Surveys
»





















Videos

JW Broadcasting

Get Involved

Links

Contact Us
  



← A new low? Jehovah’s Witness counts time by mailing grieving families via the obituaries
Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter →
 

Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick
avatar 

Posted on September 28, 2015

Is Warwick already becoming a new Mecca prized by the Governing Body above all else?
Is Warwick already becoming a new Mecca prized by the Governing Body above all else?

The Watch Tower Society is continuing to hemorrhage information. Hot on the heels of the leak of the annual meeting announcements, yet more details have emerged hinting at growing resentment among bethelites as downsizing intensifies.

JWsurvey has been contacted again by someone inside bethel who this time confirmed earlier rumors of a letter that was read to bethelites at morning worship last Wednesday warning of substantial changes.
Taken as a whole, a picture is emerging of an organization in crisis, increasingly running out of funds, led by a group of greedy, deluded men obsessed with seeing their Warwick fantasy come to fruition at the expense of everything else – including, perhaps, the health of their volunteer work force.
As with all bethel informants I have promised to strictly guard the anonymity of my source. With the annual meeting leak I was able to reproduce an entire letter, but this informant has asked that I merely convey information in my own words (rather than verbatim) so as to minimize the risk of discovery. What follows will, therefore, be my own wording based on what I have been told.


An incriminating image
Those of you who follow JW.org will be aware that Watchtower has been posting updates on the progress at Warwick in the form of “photo galleries.” The latest gallery covered work from January through April 2015 and came under the heading “Warwick Photo Gallery 3.”
My source brought it to my attention that this page has since been removed from JW.org, which indeed it has – although a Google cached page is still available on this link.
This raises the question, why was this photo gallery removed? The answer is – embarrassment over THIS picture…
diver-warwick-small
The picture seems fairly innocuous at first. Some guy, presumably a brother, is working in the lake – probably putting up nets to stop debris contaminating the lake, or to stop wildlife getting harmed.
But if you scroll down the cached page, the caption sheds more light…

A hired diver in Blue Lake replaces an old valve with a new one. With the push of a button, the level of the lake can now be lowered to prevent flooding in the event of a hurricane.
Two things now become apparent. Firstly, this is NOT a brother. It’s a “hired diver” – a so-called “worldly” contractor for Watchtower – presumably being paid handsomely due to the skilled nature of his work and the expensive equipment he’s using.
The second thing to notice is the job he’s doing. This is not an effort at preserving the environment or saving wildlife. The diver is “replacing an old valve with a new one” so that “the level of the lake can now be lowered to prevent flooding in the event of a hurricane” with “the push of a button.”
You might be thinking, so what? Why would Watchtower want this image pulled? Basically, it all falls into context once you read on and learn of the reasons for growing disgruntlement among bethelites. They are seeing branches closed, construction work halted, and face lay-offs on an unprecedented scale in the interests of cutting costs, while the Governing Body is lavishing dedicated funds on outside contractors just so they can have their own remote-controlled lake.
Living on borrowed time
The lay-offs rumored to be in the pipeline are official, and will commence from the winter of 2016, conveniently coinciding with the new Warwick headquarters becoming operational.
Certain bethels WILL be shutting down their laundry, kitchen and housekeeping services to cut costs. The total number of those being shown the door is not yet known, but it is expected to be into the thousands.
Not all Brooklyn bethelites will be following Splane, Morris and Co. to Warwick
Not all Brooklyn bethelites will be following Splane, Morris and Co. to Warwick

Hence, as the Governing Body members begin moving into their plush lakeside retreat, many of their “fellow worker” bethelites will be sent packing into the cold of winter – the majority of whom have forsaken higher education to serve the organization.

Many, my source says, are in their 40s and 50s, with nowhere to stay outside bethel, and precious few qualifications or employment prospects. There are fears that this displaced army will place further strain on congregations as frustrated, let-down, childless and homeless former-bethelites struggle to integrate themselves into the less glamorous fringes of Witness life.
There had previously been an unspoken rule that if a brother or sister accrued more than 15 years of bethel service, they were guaranteed to be cared for by Watchtower for life – deep into their old age. But this rule is out of the window, at least for those who will be axed. Despite many years of loyal service, they will have to fend for themselves – turning to the kindness of wealthy non-bethelite brothers and sisters in their new congregations (who they would have once looked down on to some extent for not “putting kingdom interests first”).
Having announced this hammer-blow news that so many bethelites are on borrowed time, the letter concludes by assuring those who will be forced to leave that Jehovah will care for them. According to my new source, the tone of the letter is eerily evocative of the words found at James 2:15-17:

“If a brother or a sister is lacking clothing and enough food for the day, yet one of you says to them, ‘Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,’ but you do not give them what they need for their body, of what benefit is it? So, too, faith by itself, without works, is dead.”
The financial crisis deepens
The letter announcing the lay-offs was read at morning worship on Wednesday 23rd, not just in the United States, but at bethels all over the world. A similar letter was also sent to those in special pioneer service, and construction servants.
The letter speaks of a need to save money, and specifically mentions the May JW Broadcasting episode in which Stephen Lett admitted a shortfall between income and expenditure. (See below)


This is interesting, because comments made by Sam Herd in the August episode seemed to imply the desired funds had since been received, but it is becoming increasingly obvious that this was not so – at least not to the extent needed.
But rather than admitting these drastic changes are being forced on Watchtower simply due to a lack of money, the letter describes the need to speed up the preaching work as being a factor. Thus, laid-off bethel workers are now expected to enter regular pioneer service soon after being tossed out to fend for themselves.
The argument that these changes are inspired by the need to advance the preaching work soon unravels, however, when you consider that special pioneers are ALSO being laid off by these changes. (Special pioneers were receiving a monthly stipend from the organization in exchange for their extra preaching hours.) And it has not gone unnoticed by bethelites that laying-off special pioneers is not a way of speeding up the preaching work, despite Watchtower’s spin. This is purely about saving money by whatever means possible.
An ivory tower on poisoned land
It is becoming increasingly apparent that, despite recent JW Broadcasting episodes heralding its grand building projects all over the world, Watchtower has now frozen virtually all its building programs worldwide so that it can focus on getting Warwick over the finish line.
The late Guy Pierce admitted doubts over Jehovah's direction concerning Warwick
The late Guy Pierce admitted doubts over Jehovah’s direction concerning Warwick

Warwick will be Watchtower’s new Mecca, and its completion is now the Governing Body’s top priority even as finances dwindle.

Since its inception, the Warwick project has had more than a hint of controversy.
When announcing the plans at the 2011 Annual Meeting, the late Guy Pierce made the frank admission that the Governing Body were “not yet certain of Jehovah’s will regarding Warwick,” but irrespective of this were “proceeding to develop the site with the intention of relocating the world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses there.”
Since then the Governing Body has made no secret of its lofty aspirations for their new residence, even telling those who wish to volunteer in its construction that they will be involved in a work akin to rebuilding the walls of Jerusalem under Nehemiah.
“Similar to the call that Nehemiah made to his fellow Israelites, there is a need to call upon the ‘strengthened hands’ of skilled volunteers to complete the Warwick project,” said one service meeting outline attached to a Watchtower letter dated August 21, 2013.
Have Warwick workers been warned to take precautions against dangerous pollutants?
Have Warwick workers been warned to take precautions against dangerous pollutants?

But far from being an unblemished utopia, ordinary bethelites are aware of a media report that circulated back in June to the effect that the Warwick site was contaminated with dangerous chemicals by its previous owners – International Nickel.

Watchtower never responded to requests for comment by Hema Easley of the Times Herald-Record, but it seems there are concerns at bethel that the Governing Body may have been less-than-transparent with Warwick workers about the contaminated nature of the environment in which they are working.
Easley’s article reports that, according to Watchtower’s suit against International Nickel, the organization knew about the problem as far back as 2012/2013 and have been “cleaning the property under the direction of the DEC.”
But given Watchtower’s own dubious track-record with handling pollution, concerned bethelites would be forgiven for wondering whether the Governing Body have really taken all necessary precautions to stop Warwick workers coming into contact with polychlorinated byphenyls – or PCBs – banned in the United States as probable human carcinogens (cancer-causing agents) as far back as 1979.
Thinking Witnesses would do well to question how the Governing Body could be considered “faithful and discreet” by forging ahead with a project while admitting uncertainty over God’s backing. And if they DID have God’s backing all along, why has Jehovah guided his organization to build its new headquarters despite having a shortage of funds, and on land drenched in potentially life-threatening pollutants?
Another scripture will no doubt come to mind for thinking Witnesses, this time in Luke 14:28…

“For example, who of you wanting to build a tower does not first sit down and calculate the expense to see if he has enough to complete it?”
Exciting times
We are now entering a fascinating phase in Watchtower’s history. Over the next couple of years we will all have front row seats to a bizarre spectacle – a cult running out of money, but desperately trying to preserve credibility regardless.
Previously Watchtower could at least count on its army of die-hard bethel workers to rally to its side and hold the fort, but even this alliance is not as solid as it once was, as these new leaks demonstrate.
The recently-announced lay-offs are, I am told, destroying trust in the Governing Body’s leadership among those at bethel – as well they should. These brutal measures bring to the fore the increasingly-noticeable greed and narcissism of the Governing Body – a deluded group of men who shamelessly put their own needs and comfort ahead of those who serve them.
Not satisfied with lavish accommodation and all-expenses-paid trips around the world to attend zone visits and receive adulation at international conventions, these men are now pouring everything into their lakeside retirement retreat – complete with infirmary and adjustable lake.
The Warwick headquarters continue to take shape
The Warwick headquarters continues to take shape

 
Those they have cut loose to help rescue their dream of a potentially cancer-causing cult compound face a more uncertain future. With few prospects, many soon-to-be ex-bethelites will be forced to rely on the already over-stretched resources and generosity of the congregations.
Some ex-Witnesses watching these events unfold remain skeptical that Watchtower truly can be running out of money. Watchtower is, in their minds, too worthy an adversary to ever be vanquished. But I am told my recent speculation regarding possible bankruptcy isn’t that far-fetched. Regardless of how much money an organization may start out with, if income fails to catch up with expenditure consistently year-on-year something will eventually have to give.
And while commercial organizations are usually able to adjust their scope of operations almost on a whim, it is virtually impossible for Watchtower to downsize to a scale corresponding to its income gracefully and seamlessly without people noticing and starting to question its religious claims. In short, the threat of the organization collapsing suddenly under its own weight is very real, and the Governing Body knows it – hence its recent desperate attempts to steady the ship.
This of course does not mean an end to Jehovah’s Witnesses. It simply means that the organization that Jehovah’s Witnesses look to as God’s sole channel with mankind could, in our lifetimes, become a shadow of its former self. And the downsizing has long since started, with Watchtower already well beyond the zenith it reached around 2005 (the last year of full magazine-printing) and 2010, when branch numbers started plummeting.
What lies in store?
The end game is far from certain, but given what we are witnessing, I fully expect Watchtower to eventually be reduced to little more than a cult-compound in upstate New York where dwindling numbers of devout followers flock on occasional pilgrimages for a photo opportunity with their dear leaders.
Nothing will be printed. Everything will be accessed online, with Governing Body members addressing their devotees through videos, assuring them that Armageddon is surely just around the corner because Jehovah’s organization is under attack as never before.
A Scientology Ideal Org in Hamburg
A Scientology Ideal Org in Hamburg

We may live to see the day when Watchtower becomes similar in size and set-up to Scientology, with its 50,000 (or less) followers and a highly-insulated leadership.

There would be no real congregations to speak of, because the vast majority of kingdom halls, having already surrendered their autonomy, would be among the first assets to be sold off. Perhaps a few “ideal orgs” (along the Scientology model) spread out across major city locations might spring up as local focal points for Witness activity. But, as the organization’s woes become more apparent, what were once millions of Witnesses will be reduced to perhaps hundreds of thousands of oblivious, hardcore cult followers who steadfastly refuse to look at objective information on the internet despite the clear evidence that their beloved organization has long since crumbled.
Maybe I’m getting ahead of myself, but now that I’m no longer a Witness I’m allowed to speculate. It may not happen overnight, or to quite that extent. But it is becoming increasingly difficult to deny that something is happening in the bowels of this fiercely proud organization, and I for one feel privileged to witness it.
 
new-cedars-signature3
 
 
 
 
 
 
Click here for a Spanish translation
Further reading…
◾Theocratic Ministry School GONE as 2015 Annual Meeting announcements leaked in advance
◾More downsizing on the way? Multiple sources report bethel letter warning of further cuts
◾Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh
◾JWsurvey articles on Warwick
◾JWsurvey articles on downsizing

Related video…




Share this:



















in
Share
.


Print
.
Like this:



Bookmark the permalink.
 

← A new low? Jehovah’s Witness counts time by mailing grieving families via the obituaries
Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter →
 

191 Responses to Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick

← Older Comments
 
 Bearwoody says:

 September 29, 2015 at 6:04 pm
 

So will Tony 3 be doing his own laundry and cooking? My guess is that Mrs. 3 will be down at the shore slapping those clothes against the polluted rocks, and figuring out how to use the microwave. Hints: When it’s time for the final rinse, just pull that “Raise the water” switch, and don’t put any metal in that oven!
Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 12:51 am
 

@Bearwoody . I REALLY LIKE your FORWARD ‘VISION’ …Perhaps I can add to it … I hear the Warwick site is Contaminated with TOXIC METALS such as MERCURY !! I hear Mercury can DAMAGE BRAIN CELLS??? … Hmmmm….. Can TONY 3 get any more Damaged Brain Cells ???… HARD to IMAGINE!!!!
Reply
 

 Jason says:

 September 30, 2015 at 8:49 am
 

I don’t understand your use of capital letters. “HARD to IMAGINE!” Like no one speaks that way. Scream ‘hard,’ whisper ‘to,’ and yell ‘imagine.”
Reply
 

 Outlookingin says:

 September 30, 2015 at 12:32 pm
 

Have you not worked out PB’s cleverly hidden messages within those capitalised words? Take all the capitalised words, take the second letter from each of them, read it all backwards…no, I can’t work it out either, though I will admit I’ve tried really hard! I had a bit of a meltdown when JB Reezner dipped his toe in the style!
Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 2:51 pm
 

@Outlookingin .., AH I am GLAD my GOOD FRIEND … JB Reezner got a MENTION !!

 
 
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 2:49 pm
 

@Jason . PARDON !…., I must THANK MY STYLE of COMMENTING to my ExCeLLent ThEOCRATIC SCHOOL OVERSEER !! Praise the LORD!!
Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 3:14 pm
 

@Jason . YoU SaY NO-one SpEaKs LiKe WhAt??

 
 
 
 
 
 

 Judy Leith says:

 September 29, 2015 at 8:40 pm
 

It is sad they are casting off the older ones who gave their youth are are all spent. They are no different from the Catholic.
Reply
 
 

 Roxanne Temple says:

 September 29, 2015 at 11:30 pm
 

It will occur “overnight” so to speak, and it will be WORSE than you expect.
That’s my speculation, you are being too kind.
Reply
 
 

 M. Rhodes says:

 September 30, 2015 at 6:49 am
 

Just think of all the money JW ORG could save if members were told to just use the Bible. There would be no need for compounds, no need for expensive building projects and a publishing empire. And all those donations could go to actually help people.
But, we all know, that scenario would do nothing to support the leaders who don’t have to work at an outside job for a living, nor earn their daily bread.
How far have they strayed from the simple method laid out in the Bible.
Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 2:42 pm
 

@M Rhodes. SUCCINCTLY PUT My Friend & Never a TRUER WORD SPOKEN !!
Reply
 
 
 

← Older Comments
 
Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *
Name *
Email *
Website
Comment

applications-education-miscellaneous.png
Comment posting guidelines:
Kindly observe the following requirements before posting any comments to our articles or pages:
◾ABUSIVE COMMENTS - Do not post comments that include swear words or may be considered abusive, lewd, blasphemous, obscene or threatening
◾ILLEGAL COMMENTS - Do not post comments that condone or propose illegal activity, or that breach copyright law
◾OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS - Do not post comments that are off-topic and bear no relation to the page or article
◾RELIGIOUS NEUTRALITY - Do not post comments that are evangelical in nature or may be construed as imposing one person's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) over those of another
◾LANGUAGE - Visitors from all countries and language groups are welcome. You may post comments in languages other than English, but we would appreciate if you could make any such comments brief. We would also be grateful if you could run any such comments through Google Translate and convert these to English, but this is not an absolute requirement.
◾LINKS - You may post links to third party websites, so long as (1) you limit these to 2 links per comment, and (2) the content on these links doesn't contravene ANY of the first four points. Specifically, you may not post URLs to websites that are evangelical in nature. Our links page has an extensive list of such sites for any who are curious about Christian beliefs in the context of Jehovah's Witnesses.

JWSurvey.org thanks all visitors in advance for respectfully observing these guidelines. Any who persistently fail to do so, despite warnings, may find themselves blocked from making further comments at the discretion of the site moderators, whose decision will be final and not open for debate.
 
  


 Notify me of new posts by email.
  
 

 


Click on 
Visit JWfacts.com for more information on JW beliefs
Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses
JW Recovery forum
Barbara Anderson's Watchtower Documents resource
Visit JWstruggle.com for helpful information on exiting JW mind control Visit TAZE.co for discussion on Jehovah's Witness developments



 
 
Support JWsurvey
Help us make continued improvements to this website and its content.
 

       
 

Article Categories
◾Apostates (28)
◾Blood transfusions (12)
◾Books (5)
◾Cedars' Blog (217)
◾Cedars' Story (4)
◾Celebrity JWs (2)
◾Child Abuse (52)
◾Child Indoctrination (16)
◾Divine Direction (4)
◾Domestic Abuse (2)
◾Doomsday Predictions (1)
◾Downsizing (10)
◾Evolution and creation (6)
◾General Information (1)
◾Governing Body (35)
◾Higher education (3)
◾History and scandals (6)
◾JW.org (8)
◾Life Stories (10)
◾Mental health (5)
◾Mini-Surveys (5)
◾News (196)
◾Property sales (5)
◾Publications (6)
◾Shunning (13)
◾Support (6)
◾Survey (12)
◾Undue influence (16)
◾Warwick headquarters (5)


Search JWsurvey

  

Subscribe to JW Survey


Enter your email address to receive notices of new posts by email.
Join 860 other subscribers
Email Address  
    
 

Listen to JWpodcast

Check out the latest episode of JW podcast! 

Latest John Cedars video
 

Popular JW sites in other languages
Languages         
More languages...

Select... Croatian Czech Dutch Estonian Finnish 1 Finnish 2 French 1 French 2 French 3 German 1 German 2 Hungarian Italian 1 Italian 2 Italian 3 Japanese Polish 1 Polish 2 Polish 3 Portuguese 1 Portuguese 2 Romanian Russian 1 Russian 2 Russian 3 Serbian 1 Serbian 2 Serbian 3 Slovak Spanish 1 Spanish 2
 

Top Posts & Pages
Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter 
 Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter 

Theocratic Ministry School GONE as 2015 Annual Meeting announcements leaked in advance 
 Theocratic Ministry School GONE as 2015 Annual Meeting announcements leaked in advance 

Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick 
 Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick 

More downsizing on the way? Multiple sources report bethel letter warning of further cuts 
 More downsizing on the way? Multiple sources report bethel letter warning of further cuts 

Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh 
 Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh 

Dear Watchtower, THANK YOU for your "tight pants" copyright complaint! 
 Dear Watchtower, THANK YOU for your "tight pants" copyright complaint! 



 
 

Click on  

Open Offer

Open Offer to all bethelites
 Do you work at Brooklyn, Patterson or Wallkill? If so, please click here.


Our Promise
Making corrections
 Is there something incorrect or unfactual on this website? If so, please let us know and we will correct it.


2015 results at a glance
Number of respondents to the 2015 Global Survey
Site Stats
Visitor stats for JWsurvey

Like us on Facebook!







 
Cedars’ Twitter Feed
 

 
 
Who's Online
◾0 Members.
◾62 Guests.


Reader Comments
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter


Menu
◾About JW Survey
◾Contact Us
◾Experiences
◾Get Involved
◾Global Surveys ◾2011 Global Survey
◾2012 Global Survey
◾2013 Global Survey
◾2014 Global Survey
◾2015 Global Survey

◾JW Broadcasting
◾JWawake.com
◾Links
◾Videos
◾Welcome


Login
 ◾Login


Scan JWsurvey.org

 



Copyright © 2011-2013 JWsurvey.org. Site design and support by The Small Web Master.

    StatCounter - Free Web Tracker and Counter     



http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/watchtower-in-crisis-frustration-grows-at-bethel-as-governing-body-focuses-everything-on-warwick#comments











Skip to content
JWsurvey 


Welcome

Cedars’ Blog

About JW Survey

Global Surveys
»





















Videos

JW Broadcasting

Get Involved

Links

Contact Us
  



← Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick
 
Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
avatar 

Posted on September 29, 2015

Lawyers at Watchtower have forced us to remove the leaked annual meeting letter from our pages
Lawyers at Watchtower have forced us to remove the leaked annual meeting letter from our pages

On Thursday, September 24, JWsurvey reproduced a Watchtower letter that had been leaked by a bethel insider. Dated October 4, 2015, the letter advised (or WILL advise) congregations of the announcements that are to be made at Saturday’s annual meeting.

The most dramatic announcement was arguably the scrapping of the much-loved Theocratic Ministry School in favor of a session of preaching presentations.
Another eyebrow-raiser was the news that magazine printing is being further reduced, with public editions of the Watchtower and Awake! to be printed once every two months from January onward.
Within 48 hours of the letter being leaked, this website received nearly 23,000 visits. Interest in the letter was substantial, and the contents were mulled over by the ex-Jehovah’s Witness community in various corners of social media.
Unsurprisingly, given the sensitive nature of the letter, some suggested it might be a hoax. I even briefly pondered myself whether I might be on the receiving end of an extremely elaborate prank designed to undermine this website’s credibility.


But any doubts as to the letter’s authenticity were put to bed today when JWsurvey’s webmaster, John Hoyle, received an email from our hosting company notifying us of an email from Watchtower’s legal department. Apparently, as was the case with the notorious October 1st 2012 child abuse letter, Watchtower’s lawyers consider the leaked letter copyrighted material, and have demanded it be taken down from our pages.
Our web hosting company, seeking to have the matter resolved quickly, advised us of two options: (1) to take the disputed material down, or (2) to issue a counter notification. Since the letter is now freely available elsewhere online, and our work in disseminating it is now effectively done, we have no interest in becoming embroiled in a legal scrap with Watchtower over whether the letter should be on our pages or not.
If anything I am grateful to Watchtower, and specifically its legal department, for once more shooting themselves in the foot so spectacularly. We had a similar situation only 9 months ago regarding Tony Morris and his tight pants fixation, and it seems lessons have not been learned.
By issuing a DMCA complaint, Watchtower has decisively claimed authorship of the letter. And by forcing us to take it down they have demonstrated that (1) they are embarrassed, and (2) they are completely clueless as to how the internet works. Once information is distributed on such a scale it cannot be undistributed.
The whole debacle is yet further proof that Watchtower, like any cult, is struggling to come to terms with the information age. The Governing Body and their men in suits assume the internet can be brought to heel, and that everyone who runs a JW-related website will play by their rules.
But even workers within bethel walls are starting to wake up and find their voice. With each fresh leak the Governing Body’s grip on power is slipping, and with each attempted cover-up there is further proof that this hapless organization is far from the worthy adversary many would assume.
 
new-cedars-signature3
 
 
 
 
 
 
For obvious reasons the letter in question is no longer available on these pages, but I am confident a copy can easily be traced with some persistent searching on Google. The Reddit Ex-JW community would also be a useful place to look.
Further reading…
◾Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick
◾Theocratic Ministry School GONE as 2015 Annual Meeting announcements leaked in advance
◾More downsizing on the way? Multiple sources report bethel letter warning of further cuts
◾Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh
◾JWsurvey articles on Warwick
◾JWsurvey articles on downsizing



Share this:



















in
Share
.


Print
.
Like this:



Bookmark the permalink.
 

← Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick
 
153 Responses to Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter


Newer Comments →
 

 bobow says:

 September 29, 2015 at 3:55 pm
 

Good Job, John,
again thanks to you and also to your source of information.
wishing all the best
 B.

Reply
 
 

 Tara says:

 September 29, 2015 at 3:58 pm
 

Oh this is priceless. The smirk on your face Lloyd says it all :) I hope you have a wonderful sleep this evening. Love from Canada.
Reply
 

 ForestDaughter says:

 September 29, 2015 at 4:18 pm
 

It’s wonderful isn’t it. How nice it is to feel good and positive about the things that are happening to/with the org, rather than angry at the things that the org are continuing to do. I think I might manage to resist saying muwahahahaha. Oh blimey, I just said it! πŸ˜‰
Reply
 

 Tara says:

 September 29, 2015 at 4:23 pm
 

tisk tisk ROFLMAO…. sorry how did that go Muwhahahahahah.. forgive me an evil titter.
Reply
 
 
 
 

 James Kingstone says:

 September 29, 2015 at 4:01 pm
 

Brilliant news. The fact that their actions confirmed the leak as true is a delightful double-whammy! I wish it were possible to legally request back some of my major donations (with accruing interest of course) as a person who was ‘tricked’. Like PPI claims against banks… anyone know a good solicitor? as Tesco says, ‘Every little helps’…
Reply
 
 

 Garrett says:

 September 29, 2015 at 4:01 pm
 

I guess I’m just blown away that these lawyers and GB can think that they have some heavenly or earthly reward waiting for them for sweeping the truth under the rug, threatening those who are honest and supporting a cult who has predicted the end of the world more times than any cult , religion or sect in the history of mankind . What is your end game lawyers and GB??????? Everyone knows you are a joke and a farce. Just hanging on to a retirement ? What pathetic creatures you are all in Brooklyn.
Reply
 

 Meredith J says:

 September 30, 2015 at 4:08 am
 

Apparently, these lawyers have been making these threats for years from what I remember reading. They succeeded in taking websites down as Watchtower was almighty, or so it thought. Great work for uncovering this pitiful move by them. This decision will be of great disappointment to many who thrive on the school for ideas and encouragement. The truth has to come out.
Reply
 
 
 

 Veaney Arteaga says:

 September 29, 2015 at 4:11 pm
 

Can you publish the 2 lawyers letter?
Reply
 

 Cedars says:

 September 29, 2015 at 4:13 pm
 

If a letter can be copyrighted, then an email can be copyrighted too – but I have shown the pertinent part in the video. :)
Reply
 
 
 

 Miker Tower says:

 September 29, 2015 at 4:14 pm
 

Well I translated it to Spanish!
 So now our dear bros in Spain…and from Canada to Antarctica can read it as well.

Reply
 
 

 Chiafade says:

 September 29, 2015 at 4:14 pm
 

What’s the point? The letter is going to be released in a few days anyway. It’s not like the letter will suddenly disappear just because they demand you take it down.
Reply
 

 ForestDaughter says:

 September 29, 2015 at 4:30 pm
 

I think it’s due to their arrogance and the erroneous belief that they have the power to control. They don’t understand what it means to have self determination and think the world should cede to them. Such delusions of grandeur.
Reply
 
 
 

 Pj wilcox says:

 September 29, 2015 at 4:19 pm
 

Great post
 Thanks so much for your diligent work at exposing these taliban JWs

Reply
 
 

 Pburford says:

 September 29, 2015 at 4:28 pm
 

Thanks for all you do… I just dont understand what all the hoopla is all about, when they will be announcing it in a few days anyway… So much drama…
Reply
 

 Garrett says:

 September 29, 2015 at 4:36 pm
 

The “Hoopla” is that they have defectors in their own ranks at the highest levels. The “Hoopla” is that the organization is falling and like a fruit tree that is dying is only putting out token buds. The “Hoopla” is that they can’t whisper in quiet back rooms and plot and scheme anymore . We see and hear all they do.
 We will watch them crumble close up and in real time.

Reply
 
 
 

 R1madbrit says:

 September 29, 2015 at 4:33 pm
 

First time I visited JW.ORG (the rebranding to get rid of Jehovah’s name) and this shameless guilt-tripping of children to beg for money is being pumped into my grandkids??? So where is the Jehovah will provide lies from my youth?
http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/be-generous/
Reply
 

 Garrett says:

 September 29, 2015 at 4:40 pm
 

Great point R1…. Lesson 19- “Be Generous”
Give the Governing Body Hell !!!!

Reply
 
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 1:03 am
 

@R1madbrit. GOOD NAME you have got … WE ALL FEEL MAD at being DUPED!! I presume you are from UK like myself ,& YES when an Organisation starts BEGGING for MONEY from CHILDRENs ICE CREAM MONEY & SHOWING TEENAGERS DONATING with CREDIT CARDS on their Website especially when the GB have condemned this type of Begging from other Religious Organisations ,it is SO HYPOCRITICAL & SICKENING !!!
Reply
 
 
 

 Samuel Clemente says:

 September 29, 2015 at 4:37 pm
 

Just pause and think for one moment: can you picture Jesus Christ and his apostles wanting his disciples to build an extravagant, luxurious and ostentatious palace so they can have all the comforts and pleasure of life? I think not. He rather instructed his disciples to feed the hungry, to look after the orphans and widows after their affliction.
Reply
 
 

 R1madbrit says:

 September 29, 2015 at 4:44 pm
 

Dear Garrett, not long to go and they can all retire to our lovely England. One assumes to escape some forms of legal punishment they see looming. Or just to actually see some beautiful pubs? Or is it because the Brits donate the most to charities? Money-grubbing, evangelical swindlers don’t last too long here.
Reply
 
 

 jeff canning says:

 September 29, 2015 at 4:44 pm
 

good stuff, keep it up….
Reply
 
 

 liette says:

 September 29, 2015 at 4:46 pm
 

The way I see it, its like the kids in my pre- k class ,if one has the task of putting the class lights on, and another child beats him to it he/she will get upset and at times have a meltdown. Now Lloyd best them to it and ruin their moment. I think these over grown toddles need a permanent time-out.
Reply
 
 

 R1madbrit says:

 September 29, 2015 at 4:59 pm
 

I’d like to see some UK journalists probe a little into why a massive US corporation would MOVE to England as opposed to simply having a branch here. Somehow Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Warwickshire just doesn’t work too well. And how do these yanks get permission to live and work here? One needs a UK passport! Somats dodgy I say!
Reply
 

 Awake! says:

 September 29, 2015 at 6:21 pm
 

They betray their own contentious nature by subconsciously picking a place that begins with the word “War”.
Reply
 

 Average Joe says:

 September 30, 2015 at 12:06 am
 

Actually @AWAKE that place name is like many in the USA, borrowed from other countries. Warwick is a town in the UK (with a nice castle too) and actually pronounced Warrick (the UK town I mean). Fact of the day!
Reply
 

 Outlookingin says:

 September 30, 2015 at 5:58 am
 

Phonetic pronunciation of the UK town with the beautiful castle is Worrick. The ‘o’ should sound as it does in ‘orange’. Oh…the English language!!
Reply
 
 
 
 
 

 Paul says:

 September 29, 2015 at 5:09 pm
 

God, they’re stupid.
Reply
 
 

 SDL says:

 September 29, 2015 at 5:52 pm
 

Someone I told about the letter said “looks like they’re losing attendees, and don’t want to admit it, if they have to keep cutting meetings”.
Reply
 
 

 Grace says:

 September 29, 2015 at 6:08 pm
 

I personally think that this new “theocratic school arrangement” or whatever it is, is just the same cake with different ingredients, a distraction to keep people from walking.
The Royal Commission & many news outlets have put the Society out for the public to see & the public are possibly asking the R&F hard questions which hopefully is making them question things themselves.
If they change things up a little it gives the R&F something else to talk about while they frantically try to keep the ship from sinking.
Reply
 

 Garrett Reinhardt says:

 September 29, 2015 at 7:24 pm
 

Grace Hardenburgh?
Reply
 
 

 Chiafade says:

 September 29, 2015 at 7:40 pm
 

That’s the way I see it. “Everything is fine look at what we have over there on the buffet table!” Then everyone gets all excited about the “new” changes and starts saying things like “how exciting! A meeting with more emphasis on how to preach! And we even get a model video on how to do it right because we suck at it! The slave is really getting us ready for the end”.
If someone even attempts to say something that is perceived as negative it will be quickly dismissed. One thing not to minimize though is the guaranteed gb rants that will be front and center of this annual meeting to remind us of just how controlling and nutty they can get.

Reply
 
 

 Meredith J says:

 September 30, 2015 at 4:15 am
 

Rearranging, yeah rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. That was their own illustration about Christendom. It appears like many things, they were talking about themselves.
Reply
 
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 9:15 am
 

@Grace .Exactly my thinking.! .. DISTRACTION is the NAME of the GAME in the GB EYES to keep the R&F talking about New Things Rather than focusing on the Negative Publicity . POLITICIANS do it ALL the TIME !!
Reply
 
 
 

 Bearwoody says:

 September 29, 2015 at 6:17 pm
 

It was easy enough to quit the UN. It’s a bit more difficult to quit the internet. It’s a shame they can’t disfellowship the internet, since it was never baptized. I suppose the most they could hope for is an e-mail of disassociation. Hey, here’s an idea: Maybe they could downsize from JW.org to a mere Twitter account.
Reply
 

 Awake! says:

 September 29, 2015 at 6:27 pm
 

More like a “twit” account.
 I’d love to see a gb try to baptize a computer, and see what happens — ZAPPPPP!!! lol

Reply
 
 
 

 Awake! says:

 September 29, 2015 at 6:35 pm
 

With so many faders and doubters, etc., in the Truth Cult, one must wonder, Since the individual stones are already crumbling, how much longer can the Watchtower stand???
Reply
 
 

 Richard says:

 September 29, 2015 at 6:39 pm
 

The Watchtower is so profoundly stupid it’s hilarious. If the movie “The Happening” became an organization, it would be called The Watchtower.
Reply
 
 

 Awake! says:

 September 29, 2015 at 6:45 pm
 

On a somewhat humorous note, I’ve been ploughing through Season 5 of “The Walking Dead” on Netflix, and I keep expecting to see one of the zombies pushing a “witnessing cart”. My apologies, but it would seem SO appropriate.
Reply
 
 

 RobertoPerez67 says:

 September 29, 2015 at 6:58 pm
 

Lloyd, is there some way you can set up a form of LLC for jwsurvey? Maybe this way you wouldn’t have to worry about the societies legal whining as much. Perhaps setting it up as an educational or investigative journal.
Really happy the letter was confirmed.
Reply
 
 

 Prodigal son says:

 September 29, 2015 at 7:09 pm
 

It seems to me that this site is renting some space in the GBs head.
 So if the R&F can’t look at these sites. Why can they? It’s so hard for me to understand why JWs can’t see though this farce. My hypocrisy only goes so far the organization has no limits.

Reply
 

 RobertoPerez67 says:

 September 29, 2015 at 7:25 pm
 

In my time as an elder, and it might just be me who was looking out for this, but I noticed that the absolute majority were clueless as to life in general and just happy to have others do their thinking for them. Scripturaly, monetarily, matrimony, kids, jobs, I was approached regularly as to which of two roads to take on every sort of matter. The society gives a step by step blue print a la 1984, on every aspect of life. These individuals are completely blind to the hipocracy, so long as the food (life instructions) keep coming.
Reply
 

 Chiafade says:

 September 29, 2015 at 10:05 pm
 

The CO wants to stay in my house is that OK?
 I’m getting a pet snake/lizard fish is there anything wrong with that?
 I want to see this movie do you think that’s wrong?
 Is this song OK to listen to?
 I like rare steaks do I need to change that?
 I bought a new ring is that materialistic?

All questions that have been asked before. No you are not the only one. What’s happened is the culture created by JWs has reverted adults into a child like state where they can’t make a decision without verifying whether they are “scripturally free to do so”. Instead of thinking for themselves they ask for permission first.
 The gb likes to say that they don’t tell people what to do and that it’s a conscience matter but the reality is quite different. When someone makes an independent decision its ” you should have asked us for direction”.

Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 12:31 am
 

@Chifade. ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT SYNOPSIS of What it is Like to be an ADULT JW ….. CHILDLIKE !!!
 I remember the questioning of many JWs back in the 1970s about whether we could eat ….. RED SMARTIES!!! Why? Because the Colouring contained BEETLES BLOOD!!’
BUT Now it’s OK because it is only a FRACTION !!! Some younger JWs may be Laughing & thinking I am Joking , but Ask @ Ted or any of the Older JWs & they will tell you This is TRUE!!! … ABSOLUTELY FARCICAL !! How Could we ALL FALL for this UTTER CLAPTRAP ???

Reply
 

 ruthlee says:

 September 30, 2015 at 12:55 am
 

You remember that! We had a thing about white chocolate too. My mum wrote to the choc company to confirm yah or nay.In retrospect we were socially shunned from that time because mum thought for herself. I really should write the book.You will need wee pads ha ha ha (sorry thats a bit off colour) I’m off for breakfast umm white chocolate with smartie sprinkles followed by an oxo bovril mix.rl

 
 
 
 
 
 

 Garrett Reinhardt says:

 September 29, 2015 at 7:19 pm
 

Yes yes yes, great job Cedars! I cannot think of much that could top this, other than the Borg loosing their Non-profit status.
The action taken by the Watchtower clearly identifies guilt and paranoia!
Sunday shall be Super Bowl Sunday to us EX JW’s; more importantly may it wake more active JW’s that are just starting to think!
Reply
 
 

 PinkUnicorn says:

 September 29, 2015 at 7:20 pm
 

ROFL!!!
Excellent work Mr. Cedars. The WT is indeed clueless. They have no idea how the mighty Ex-Dub Army has risen up to defeat their phony Jah. Thanks to higher education, thousands are at the ready to continue our relentless attack on the underfunded, dopey WT.
Reply
 
 

 Marilyn White says:

 September 29, 2015 at 7:20 pm
 

I am so happy to live to see The Watchtower Publishing Organization finally being exposed for the controlling, destructive cult that they are. The damage they have done to millions of families is atrocious and criminal. I am more than halfway through my Criminal Psychology and Criminal Behaviour Program. My lowest grade is 96. I never knew what I was capable of after having my childhood robbed and being brainwashed into believing I was nothing and being taught very little real life skills. I will be 50 in October and I can honestly say it’s never too late! Don’t ever give up. I have ongoing treatment with a psychologist to help me try to reverse the damage of the lies told to me daily for most of my childhood. My father shunned me for over 20 years because of the JW cult. He was DF when he overdosed alone in a room he was renting because his second wife had divorced him and he was DF. But I didn’t know anything about him as he had cut himself off. My husband met him for the first time lying all bloated on a gurney at the back room of a local funeral home. There was to be no viewing, no service, nothing. A quick cremation followed by a 5 minute mention at their regular meeting. I did not attend but I was told it was briefly announced in the basement meeting room. I’m surprised the did anything because he was DF. Maybe they were hoping to recruit one of his 9 siblings. I believe he committed suicide. He had made previous attempts, always calling me to come to him. His ex-wife kept his 1961acoustic guitar in spite of our request for it. She has since remarried. Where is the justice for my father and his family?
Reply
 

 RobertoPerez67 says:

 September 29, 2015 at 7:41 pm
 

Your father is guilty of commiting a mistake while not being related to an elder or other member of the society who’s reputation or effectiveness as a line manager could be affected by his shunning. Please see a show called Borgias to learn more about the princes in the society. The shepherding the flock book(elders manual free pdf online) clearly lets them know to factor in the privilege circle jerk when making a judicial decision.
Reply
 
 

 Tara says:

 September 29, 2015 at 7:50 pm
 

Oh Marilyn I am so sorry. What a terrible series of events for you. I take my hat off to you also because you have take charge of your own life. My ex, non witness husband abandoned me in my now adoptive country with our older children. I had a breakdown and I do not recall one elder visiting me whilst I was hopitalised. My ex remarried but I never have for three reasons I guess. 1) I was told I could only marry another witness. 2) I was counseled when my childhood sweetheart found me and then backed off because of the witnesses 3) my ex abused me and I am terrified of being with anyone else. I am also semi shunned due in part to an incident involving my daughter who was df’d for her actions. My son has been df’d for at least 5 years now but during this time I have secretly kept good contact with them. I have nothing to thank the WT for. Even my friends are ‘conditional’ friends except for a few dissident ones who have watched out for me.
Reply
 

 RobertoPerez67 says:

 September 29, 2015 at 8:13 pm
 

@Marylin and Tara I really feel for you and the hurt these cult leaders have submitted your families to. With an average of 1% of witnesses dissfelowshiped every year, that now works out to 80,000 “sinners”,plus their family members going through extreme psychological mental and emotional abuse. A great chunk of these will never return, but go on living with the mental guilt programming these criminals subjected them to. Please be active in helping others come to know that the whole thing was fabricated by false wealth seeking prophets. Please study the real jw truth that is out there and most of all live life to its fullest, knowing that God, the real God, loves unconditionally and he wishes to save those that love him, not damn them everytime they make a mistake.
Reply
 

 Tara says:

 September 29, 2015 at 8:43 pm
 

Everyday for the past two years I have gone through scenario after scenario in my head as to what I would say or do if I was dragged into their star chamber… I decided I would say thank you but no. JJ on jwstruggle helped me with that one. My son has encouraged me in a profound way to start my escape but it’s not that easy is it. Angus Stewart called them a captive religion or something like that. He was right. Even when you leave they still hold onto a part of you and they squeeze it every now and then just to let you know they are there.
Reply
 

 Awake! says:

 September 30, 2015 at 1:05 am
 

Squeeze back.

 
 
 
 
 

 Meredith J says:

 September 30, 2015 at 4:25 am
 

Marilyn, that is a tragic story. No wonder you are getting professional help knowing what happened to your Dad. I hope you keep healing and you deal with all your fears as you grow in confidence of yourself. You are doing so well.
Reply
 
 
 

 Faded says:

 September 29, 2015 at 7:52 pm
 

OMG! Hilarious. They’re just such (delusional) legends in their own minds. Ugh. Good work as usual, Lloyd.
Reply
 
 

 Awake! says:

 September 29, 2015 at 8:04 pm
 

@Pickled Brain
 Re: 7 vacancies at McDonalds — I doubt the 7 mental midgets of the gb would be qualified! Plus, they could never handle the stress. I think we’ve all seen those McD’s servers and frycooks hustle!!

Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 29, 2015 at 10:27 pm
 

@Awake . THANK YOU for Referring to the NEW THEOCRATIC TERMINOLOGY & Adding to it….. 7 MENTAL MIDGETS of BROOKLYN !!!
 You are right they probably couldn’t handle the stress of MacDonalds!!!

Reply
 

 Awake! says:

 September 30, 2015 at 12:53 am
 

Glad to be of service…
πŸ˜‰

Reply
 
 
 
 

 Ken says:

 September 29, 2015 at 8:23 pm
 

JWs are probably wondering what’s going on ? I kinda worried about the ” org ” . I for one know that if the ship sinks so does the people . Remember the Titanic hitting the iceberg ? The few who had life boats got out and survived precariously . In the last few years the Watchtower’s actions have only demonstrated that some kind of takeover is going on . I see mismanagement , and hasty decision making . I guess you think I’m showing sympathy, maybe but I fear the worse . I have see and wait.
Reply
 

 RobertoPerez67 says:

 September 29, 2015 at 8:33 pm
 

I believe Luther ( the badass apostate, not the chief inspector) said it best
 Jesus Christ lived in the midst of his enemies. At the end all his disciples deserted him. On the Cross he was utterly alone, surrounded by evildoers and mockers. For this cause he had come, to bring peace to the enemies of God. So the Christian, too, belongs not in the seclusion of a cloistered life but in the thick of foes. There is his commission, his work. ‘The kingdom is to be in the midst of your enemies. And HE (the gb and all their bubble boys) who will not suffer this does not want to be of the Kingdom of Christ; he wants to be among friends, to sit among roses and lilies, not with the bad people but the devout people. O you blasphemers and betrayers of Christ! If Christ had done what you are doing who would ever have been spared’ (Luther).

These cowards push things on all of us living in the real world that none of them are willing to do. The word of God and in Jesus words condemns them Luke 11:46
 Then he said: “Woe also to you who are versed in the Law, because you load men down with loads hard to carry, but you yourselves do not touch the loads with one of your fingers!

Reply
 

 Awake! says:

 September 30, 2015 at 12:49 am
 

SPOT ON!!!
Reply
 
 
 
 

 Mama Joy says:

 September 29, 2015 at 10:05 pm
 

By claiming they have copyrights means they are stating it’s legit.
The future mags published once every two months? Wow, I never thought I’d see the day.
Their Business is definitely downsizing!
Reply
 
 

 Catalina says:

 September 29, 2015 at 10:10 pm
 

I agree with Chiafade, What’s the point? The society is nuts to make a big deal. The letter is going to be released in a few days anyway. It’s not like the letter will suddenly disappear just because they demand it taken down. I am also glad the letter is confirmed. This Sunday will be the last meeting I go to. I’m going to walk out as soon as the letter is read. I was going to meetings to make my sister happy. I’m no longer going. My sister told me I’m dead to her. I married my catholic boyfriend. She said I never learn. I’m actually relieved to be free. It’s easier for me to walk away and be free now because I can only be rejected so many times and now I just don’t care. I’m relieved to be free because they are such an arrogant people who are apart of an arrogant organization.
Reply
 

 Awake! says:

 September 30, 2015 at 1:01 am
 

I wish I could throw you a party Sunday evening. Anyway, Congratulations and Good Luck, in advance. ‘Good News to Make Us Happy’
Reply
 

 Catalina says:

 September 30, 2015 at 1:43 am
 

Thank you Awake, that makes me feel really awesome. I met my husband’s family this week. They came all the way from Aguascalientes, Mexico for our wedding and I don’t know any Spanish. My husband is seventyone. His aunt raised him. She is 92. I like her a lot. My husband stopped going to church 20 years ago. He is so relieved I’m not going to meetings any more. He never complained. He says he was never going to complain but he’s glad I’ll be home. He says he notices I’m a lot more relaxed now. It feels good the pressure is off of me. It is like walking on egg shells when I’m around JWs.
Reply
 

 EverydayExplorer says:

 September 30, 2015 at 4:11 am
 

Wow, Catalina, I will be thinking of you this Sunday visualising you at your last ever meeting and sending you warm positive thoughts from the UK. Your journey is inspiring. Keep us posted.
Reply
 

 Holly Chu says:

 September 30, 2015 at 6:22 am
 

That is fantastic Catalina! I too planned my last meeting. Sunday August 9, 2015. Attended last Convention, Sunday August 16th. Thought it might be a little sad, but convention such a joke I regretted wasting my valuable time. No elder from KH has contacted me yet. But coming soon. I don’t plan to meet or speak on phone reasons for my absence. I feel better every day, and you will too.
 I will also keep you in my thoughts here in the sunny Southern United States and will “pop the cork” on a bottle of champagne and send you a toast!


 
 
 
 
 

 Tara says:

 September 30, 2015 at 6:48 am
 

Congrats on your marriage hun. I’m excited for the Sunday meeting too…. HAHA never thought I would say that! lol can ust imagine all us ex/fading/shunned witnesses turning up for a meeting.
Reply
 
 
 

 ScotWm says:

 September 29, 2015 at 10:57 pm
 

The austerity measures announced in the leaked annual letter are largely brought on by the Governing Body’s decision to move their world headquarters to Warwick. The Governing Body is also losing the adulation of its followers by appearing in a series of awkward videos. As a result, many cult members, who once looked to the Governing Body for spiritual guidance, are realizing that they have put their faith in false prophets.
Raymond Franz revealed in his book, “Crisis of Conscience”, that the Governing Body consists of leaders and followers. At this time, it is difficult for outsiders to determine which Governing Body members have power and influence over the others. But whoever these dominant men are, they have been able to get the weaker members of the Watchtower elite to follow and obey them.
As the Watchtower organization continues its descent into insolvency, the greedy and deluded Governing Body members will probably begin turning on one another. Low level Bethel slaves may not be the only ones who get thrown out on the street. Joseph Rutherford once reigned as the undisputed leader of the Watchtower cult. The Governing Body’s internal struggles could once again leave the Watchtower Society with a single leader.
Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 1:12 am
 

@ScotWm . VERY GOOD FUTURE ANALYSIS of what will happen … Like any body of Elders I have known there tends to be one or two who DOMINATE Proceedings! … I Imagine Tony, Stephen, Geoffrey & David being the Dominant ones … BUT who will Emerge like Rutherford as their MESSIAH ?? … Sorry I meant Leader.. Maybe CONTORTIONIST LETTS or LAWYER JACKSON or VIETNAM MORRIS or DRACULA BLOOD SUCKING SPLANE???
 I am sure our contributors on this site have other IDEAs??

Reply
 

 Awake! says:

 September 30, 2015 at 1:47 am
 

Wasn’t VIETNAM MORRIS a consultant on the set of “Apocalypse Now”? Or was it “Rambo”? I know. Stupid. But kinda funny on a couple of different levels, no?
Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 6:48 am
 

@Awake . I MUST SAY… VERY APPROPRIATE !! …. ‘APOCALYPSE NOW’ ….. Could be New Title for a Book Release at NEXT YEARS CONVENTION …. Maybe an UPDATE of REVELATION BOOK?? .. Good Idea????
Reply
 
 
 

 Tara says:

 September 30, 2015 at 6:50 am
 

HE’S NOT THE MESSIAH! HE’S A VERY NAUGHTY BOY!
Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 9:07 am
 

@Tara …, AHaaa!! A MONTY PYTHON FAN like myself..! Naughty Naughty!! But I like it!!
Reply
 

 Awake! says:

 September 30, 2015 at 5:17 pm
 

That makes at least 3 of us (not quite sure if that’s something to be proud of)… Now I want to make this perfectly clear — NO ONE is to throw a stone, EVEN IF, and I stress this, EVEN IF, someone says, “Jehovah”!!! LMAO… Gotta love those guys… Forgotten, but not gone…

 
 

 Awake! says:

 September 30, 2015 at 5:25 pm
 

Sorry, I meant “at least 5 of us”. You know, 1…2…5.

 
 
 
 

 ScotWm says:

 September 30, 2015 at 8:45 am
 

One Governing Body member who is definitely not a follower is Senior Governing Body member Gerrit LΓΆsch, who claims he does “not answer to Watchtower,” and has even declared that Watchtower “does not, and never has had, any authority over me.”
The refusal of Gerrit LΓΆsch to comply with court orders left the Watchtower with a default judgment of $13.5 million for its part in the abuse suffered by Jose Lopez at the hands of Gonzalo Campos. Campos was allowed to molest multiple victims in San Diego in the 80s and 90s without the organization’s intervention.
“One of the reasons why the lawsuit went so badly for Watchtower was due to its failure to comply with court orders requesting, among other things, the organization to produce the most senior Governing Body member, Gerrit LΓΆsch, for a deposition.”
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/i-do-not-answer-to-watchtower-stunning-gerrit-losch-declaration-revealed
Reply
 
 
 

 Robertoperez67 says:

 September 30, 2015 at 7:32 am
 

Wouldn’t it be something, if these leaks were coming from a conscious loaded member of the GB? Boom! Mind blown.
Reply
 
 

 ScotWm says:

 September 30, 2015 at 9:33 am
 

It is possible that the Governing Body is already being dominated by a couple of aggressive men, but the alpha male may not yet have achieved total control. After reviewing the resumes of the seven Governing Body members, I have tentatively listed them in the following categories:
Top dogs: Gerrit LΓΆsch and Samuel Herd.
Top dog wannabe: David Splane.
Lap dogs: Mark Sanderson, Anthony Morris III, Geoffrey Jackson and Stephen Lett.
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/the-governing-body-of-jehovahs-witnesses-explained
Reply
 
 
 

 ruthlee says:

 September 30, 2015 at 12:46 am
 

“Ding dong the witch is dead la la la la la la” Ooooh hello all of us in the real world. Just practising my exit song.A few thoughts, how about they ‘wait on Jehovah ‘and not jump the gun so much for gb faith! I really dont see Jesus in a suit with a team of nifty lawyers.Let’s see if they have the savvy to rewrite this letter before the AGM ,guess what? New light shining brightly on the dimboids. Yes damnwell new light. A ruddy great spotlight to expose all the drivel and drool spouting from the imbeciles.As with a spotlight you get residual heat .So same thing the heat is on and it will not go away.Last point of my rant of the day.How dare they do all this in the name of the almighty. Call themselves representatives of JC .This nasty cult is being exposed everyday now, new folks read our testimony and nod ,cry ,yip amen and join the ranks of awakened ones. “Ding dong lalala” ruthlee/ruthless
Reply
 

 Grace says:

 September 30, 2015 at 2:49 pm
 

Haha Ruthlee,
Good to see you adopted the new, don’t-mess-with-me name that I accidentally gave you. I think we should go to the tattoo shop & get your name tattooed on your knuckles. R.U.T.H on one hand & L.E.S.S. on the other.
Reply
 
 
 

 Catalina says:

 September 30, 2015 at 1:08 am
 

One time I was on vacation. we were in a hotel. That night an unhappy hotel worker set a large garbage can on fire and left it in the stairway on the fifth floor causing two floors to get smoke. The smoke alarms went off. Many hotel guests wouldn’t leave their rooms. That reminds me of the JWs who stay in the org. For them to admit they’re wrong about the org would be like emotional suicide. They’ll stay in that religion no matter what. I’m thinking of my sister when I say this.
Reply
 
 

 Awake! says:

 September 30, 2015 at 1:25 am
 

Here’s the thing: Folks who cannot or WILL not live in the present will NEVER be happy. They will ALWAYS dream up some FUTURE Utopia where everything will be “perfect” (whatever that means). But I guarantee you, take them all and put them into that “Utopia” which they claim to crave so much, and they will STILL be dissatisfied and unfulfilled, fearful and insecure. Because it won’t be some future dreamworld any longer. It will be NOW. And people like that simply cannot live in the NOW.
 It’s like those who pursue riches. When I’ve made my first million, I’ll be happy. And it happens, oh oh, still not happy. Why? Well, I just don’t have enough. What I really need is 10 million, then I’ll be happy! So I’ve got my 10 million, still not happy. Hmmmmm. Now I’ve got it!! All along, what I really needed to be happy was 1 billion $!!! And so on and on until they’re worm food. It was never a question of quantity, but rather of quality. Those folks can’t be happy because they’re not LIVING!!!
 I mean, you’re either alive or you’re dead. There’s nothing in between.
 People who refuse to live in the real world will always be walking around in a trance, daydreaming on rainbows and unicorns.

Reply
 

 Grace says:

 September 30, 2015 at 2:58 pm
 

Awake,
Excellent comment, my sentiments exactly. The whole religion is setup on a future dream of non realities. Even the whole “imagine yourself in the new system” fantasy. I’m sure that some believe it will be a truman show type of world without any of the natural elements left just a big world-wide development planned suburb. Most of the witnesses I knew weren’t comfortable around nature & animals.
Reply
 

 Awake! says:

 September 30, 2015 at 5:08 pm
 

Come to think of it, I don’t recall many outdoorsy types in the borg.
 Guess they’re more comfortable just looking at pictures.

Reply
 
 
 
 

 keinlezard says:

 September 30, 2015 at 2:21 am
 

Hello,
 Letter always on the Web … I found it and Save it :)

And the better here, now I know it is not a hoax
Thanl MamaWatch Lawyers :)
Reply
 
 

 Jake says:

 September 30, 2015 at 2:45 am
 

The bully is losing his grip, must be so frustrating that the threats of death are becoming like water off a ducks back, it’s very liberating to no longer live in fear :-)
 Of course Jesus’s words, who is their master, are not matter of copy write.
 What are you trying to hide and control, YOUR religion?

Reply
 

 Grace says:

 September 30, 2015 at 3:09 pm
 

Jake,
“BULLY” is the only word that you can describe the leadership of this religion. Once you lose that fear & guilt, it’s so liberating to tell them that they are in a cult when they try to save you from being destroyed & to be able to say it confidently without nerves when doing it.
My husband & I have had several ones with good intentions try different tactics like the usual, “miss you” text messages, visits just before the royal CO visit to hear the “encouraging talks” he will be giving or I have something for you as they go to pull out the “Return to Jehovah” brochure.
The thing that gets me riled up though is when they start lying when I hit them with questions. I have said to them several times, “I’m not a naive householder your talking to, I’ve been in this religion 20 years to know the inner workings of what goes on. So please don’t use double speak with me”.
That comment is usually after they have lied to me, otherwise if they truly want our friendship, we have told them that it is not going to be based on our religious beliefs. Anyway, no one seems to come back which suits us fine.
Reply
 

 Awake! says:

 September 30, 2015 at 4:59 pm
 

A relative gave me a copy of the “Return to Jehovah” brochure. I drew horns on the shepherd and fangs on the lamb and returned it to them. :)
Reply
 
 
 
 

 covertfade says:

 September 30, 2015 at 2:46 am
 

It never ceases to amaze me how adept the Watchtower corporation is at machine-gunning it’s own feet. They gain nothing with this move except grant further credibility to their opponent, in this case JW Survey, as a source of legitimate insider information.
It’s the latest in a long line of horribly counter productive moves in the media, in court, and in Royal Commissions, that showcase what happens when your leadership is drawn from a group of people who are by nature of their creed forbidden from raising or answering legitimate criticism, and from thinking critically.
Honestly, the governing body are like the anti-Machiavelli or something, with every move planned to be as stupid, as unsubtle and as counter-productive to their cause as possible…
Reply
 
 

 KateWild says:

 September 30, 2015 at 2:57 am
 

I have redistributed the letter on a closed Fb group.
Lloyd you are a member
It’s also on JWN
Lol
 Kate xx

Reply
 
 


Newer Comments →
 

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *
Name *
Email *
Website
Comment

applications-education-miscellaneous.png
Comment posting guidelines:
Kindly observe the following requirements before posting any comments to our articles or pages:
◾ABUSIVE COMMENTS - Do not post comments that include swear words or may be considered abusive, lewd, blasphemous, obscene or threatening
◾ILLEGAL COMMENTS - Do not post comments that condone or propose illegal activity, or that breach copyright law
◾OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS - Do not post comments that are off-topic and bear no relation to the page or article
◾RELIGIOUS NEUTRALITY - Do not post comments that are evangelical in nature or may be construed as imposing one person's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) over those of another
◾LANGUAGE - Visitors from all countries and language groups are welcome. You may post comments in languages other than English, but we would appreciate if you could make any such comments brief. We would also be grateful if you could run any such comments through Google Translate and convert these to English, but this is not an absolute requirement.
◾LINKS - You may post links to third party websites, so long as (1) you limit these to 2 links per comment, and (2) the content on these links doesn't contravene ANY of the first four points. Specifically, you may not post URLs to websites that are evangelical in nature. Our links page has an extensive list of such sites for any who are curious about Christian beliefs in the context of Jehovah's Witnesses.

JWSurvey.org thanks all visitors in advance for respectfully observing these guidelines. Any who persistently fail to do so, despite warnings, may find themselves blocked from making further comments at the discretion of the site moderators, whose decision will be final and not open for debate.
 
  


 Notify me of new posts by email.
  
 

 


Click on 
Visit JWfacts.com for more information on JW beliefs
Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses
JW Recovery forum
Barbara Anderson's Watchtower Documents resource
Visit JWstruggle.com for helpful information on exiting JW mind control Visit TAZE.co for discussion on Jehovah's Witness developments



 
 
Support JWsurvey
Help us make continued improvements to this website and its content.
 

       
 

Article Categories
◾Apostates (28)
◾Blood transfusions (12)
◾Books (5)
◾Cedars' Blog (217)
◾Cedars' Story (4)
◾Celebrity JWs (2)
◾Child Abuse (52)
◾Child Indoctrination (16)
◾Divine Direction (4)
◾Domestic Abuse (2)
◾Doomsday Predictions (1)
◾Downsizing (10)
◾Evolution and creation (6)
◾General Information (1)
◾Governing Body (35)
◾Higher education (3)
◾History and scandals (6)
◾JW.org (8)
◾Life Stories (10)
◾Mental health (5)
◾Mini-Surveys (5)
◾News (196)
◾Property sales (5)
◾Publications (6)
◾Shunning (13)
◾Support (6)
◾Survey (12)
◾Undue influence (16)
◾Warwick headquarters (5)


Search JWsurvey

  

Subscribe to JW Survey


Enter your email address to receive notices of new posts by email.
Join 860 other subscribers
Email Address  
    
 

Listen to JWpodcast

Check out the latest episode of JW podcast! 

Latest John Cedars video
 

Popular JW sites in other languages
Languages         
More languages...

Select... Croatian Czech Dutch Estonian Finnish 1 Finnish 2 French 1 French 2 French 3 German 1 German 2 Hungarian Italian 1 Italian 2 Italian 3 Japanese Polish 1 Polish 2 Polish 3 Portuguese 1 Portuguese 2 Romanian Russian 1 Russian 2 Russian 3 Serbian 1 Serbian 2 Serbian 3 Slovak Spanish 1 Spanish 2
 

Top Posts & Pages
Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter 
 Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter 

Theocratic Ministry School GONE as 2015 Annual Meeting announcements leaked in advance 
 Theocratic Ministry School GONE as 2015 Annual Meeting announcements leaked in advance 

Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick 
 Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick 

More downsizing on the way? Multiple sources report bethel letter warning of further cuts 
 More downsizing on the way? Multiple sources report bethel letter warning of further cuts 

Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh 
 Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh 

Dear Watchtower, THANK YOU for your "tight pants" copyright complaint! 
 Dear Watchtower, THANK YOU for your "tight pants" copyright complaint! 



 
 

Click on  

Open Offer

Open Offer to all bethelites
 Do you work at Brooklyn, Patterson or Wallkill? If so, please click here.


Our Promise
Making corrections
 Is there something incorrect or unfactual on this website? If so, please let us know and we will correct it.


2015 results at a glance
Number of respondents to the 2015 Global Survey
Site Stats
Visitor stats for JWsurvey

Like us on Facebook!







 
Cedars’ Twitter Feed
 

 
 
Who's Online
◾0 Members.
◾60 Guests.


Reader Comments
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter


Menu
◾About JW Survey
◾Contact Us
◾Experiences
◾Get Involved
◾Global Surveys ◾2011 Global Survey
◾2012 Global Survey
◾2013 Global Survey
◾2014 Global Survey
◾2015 Global Survey

◾JW Broadcasting
◾JWawake.com
◾Links
◾Videos
◾Welcome


Login
 ◾Login


Scan JWsurvey.org

 



Copyright © 2011-2013 JWsurvey.org. Site design and support by The Small Web Master.

    StatCounter - Free Web Tracker and Counter     



http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/watchtower-issues-dmca-takedown-over-leaked-annual-meeting-letter/comment-page-1#comments












Skip to content
JWsurvey 


Welcome

Cedars’ Blog

About JW Survey

Global Surveys
»





















Videos

JW Broadcasting

Get Involved

Links

Contact Us
  



← Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick
 
Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
avatar 

Posted on September 29, 2015

Lawyers at Watchtower have forced us to remove the leaked annual meeting letter from our pages
Lawyers at Watchtower have forced us to remove the leaked annual meeting letter from our pages

On Thursday, September 24, JWsurvey reproduced a Watchtower letter that had been leaked by a bethel insider. Dated October 4, 2015, the letter advised (or WILL advise) congregations of the announcements that are to be made at Saturday’s annual meeting.

The most dramatic announcement was arguably the scrapping of the much-loved Theocratic Ministry School in favor of a session of preaching presentations.
Another eyebrow-raiser was the news that magazine printing is being further reduced, with public editions of the Watchtower and Awake! to be printed once every two months from January onward.
Within 48 hours of the letter being leaked, this website received nearly 23,000 visits. Interest in the letter was substantial, and the contents were mulled over by the ex-Jehovah’s Witness community in various corners of social media.
Unsurprisingly, given the sensitive nature of the letter, some suggested it might be a hoax. I even briefly pondered myself whether I might be on the receiving end of an extremely elaborate prank designed to undermine this website’s credibility.


But any doubts as to the letter’s authenticity were put to bed today when JWsurvey’s webmaster, John Hoyle, received an email from our hosting company notifying us of an email from Watchtower’s legal department. Apparently, as was the case with the notorious October 1st 2012 child abuse letter, Watchtower’s lawyers consider the leaked letter copyrighted material, and have demanded it be taken down from our pages.
Our web hosting company, seeking to have the matter resolved quickly, advised us of two options: (1) to take the disputed material down, or (2) to issue a counter notification. Since the letter is now freely available elsewhere online, and our work in disseminating it is now effectively done, we have no interest in becoming embroiled in a legal scrap with Watchtower over whether the letter should be on our pages or not.
If anything I am grateful to Watchtower, and specifically its legal department, for once more shooting themselves in the foot so spectacularly. We had a similar situation only 9 months ago regarding Tony Morris and his tight pants fixation, and it seems lessons have not been learned.
By issuing a DMCA complaint, Watchtower has decisively claimed authorship of the letter. And by forcing us to take it down they have demonstrated that (1) they are embarrassed, and (2) they are completely clueless as to how the internet works. Once information is distributed on such a scale it cannot be undistributed.
The whole debacle is yet further proof that Watchtower, like any cult, is struggling to come to terms with the information age. The Governing Body and their men in suits assume the internet can be brought to heel, and that everyone who runs a JW-related website will play by their rules.
But even workers within bethel walls are starting to wake up and find their voice. With each fresh leak the Governing Body’s grip on power is slipping, and with each attempted cover-up there is further proof that this hapless organization is far from the worthy adversary many would assume.
 
new-cedars-signature3
 
 
 
 
 
 
For obvious reasons the letter in question is no longer available on these pages, but I am confident a copy can easily be traced with some persistent searching on Google. The Reddit Ex-JW community would also be a useful place to look.
Further reading…
◾Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick
◾Theocratic Ministry School GONE as 2015 Annual Meeting announcements leaked in advance
◾More downsizing on the way? Multiple sources report bethel letter warning of further cuts
◾Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh
◾JWsurvey articles on Warwick
◾JWsurvey articles on downsizing



Share this:



















in
Share
.


Print
.
Like this:



Bookmark the permalink.
 

← Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick
 
153 Responses to Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter

← Older Comments
 
 Nemorino says:

 September 30, 2015 at 3:00 am
 

Great work John, I would love to have been a fly on the wall at the GB emergency session after the poop hit the fan!
 I can only imagine what your Italian ex-JW neighbors call a “caccia alle streghe” (“witch hunt”) ensued!!

Reply
 
 

 Jake says:

 September 30, 2015 at 3:44 am
 

@nemorino
 Good point about the witch hunt.
 As long as this website keeps publishing leaks the more observable is the Watchtowers totalitarian deluded attitude. For those at Bethel, please keep the information coming as it highlights this to other sincere witnesses (potentially life saving), but be aware a witch hunt will come. Such is the reaction of a wounded animal.

Reply
 
 

 Jake says:

 September 30, 2015 at 4:40 am
 

It boils my blood. .
 No you can’t have fractions, yes you can
 No you can’t have an organ donation, yes you can
 The generation of 1914 won’t all die because in actual fact it’s two joined generations
 No you can’t have an inoculation, yes you can
 The superior authority’s are?, no their not
 Oral sex a grounds for a scriptural divorce, yes, no.
 Appointed over all the masters belongings, yes , no
 How the bloody hell are you supposed to kept up with all these false teachings?, and the Watchtower has the audacity to call others false teachers and apostates, the hypocrisy is breath taking. I didn’t post this crap all around the world for years and then punish a person if they dared to disagree, outrageous and EVIL!

Reply
 

 ruthlee says:

 September 30, 2015 at 5:15 am
 

OH jake you are angry. I so agree with you. My dad used to say people will have their comeuppance.Great word isn’t it? That is what we are waiting for.The thing is God’s waiting room may get a little more crowded before long.Ithink what really convinces me now they told lies is that I can’t explain the doctrines anymore. Ican’t keep up with the flip flops.There is no scriptural backing to the wacky notions.More importantly I don’t want to defend lies, half truths (whatever that means), unscriptual belief.So like you I get angry too and impassioned about this sorry mess.This site is a beacon to the world that some of us did see it for what it was.rl
Reply
 
 

 Jake says:

 September 30, 2015 at 8:24 am
 

I’m not angry for me, just want the subterfuge to end.
Reply
 
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 9:59 am
 

@Jake . Excellent Summary of the LUDICROUS Ever Changing FLIP FLOPS of the GB of Brooklyn !!
Reply
 
 
 

 Mc fan says:

 September 30, 2015 at 4:49 am
 

Does anybody here think that there will be another GB body member who will jump ship like Ray Franz and expose more of the organizations dirty secrets??
Reply
 

 Mary says:

 September 30, 2015 at 5:20 am
 

It would be awesome if that did happen again. Remember, when Ray jumped ship there was no such thing as the internet and for the most part, we had to accept whatever bullsh*t ‘reasoning’ they gave us as to why he got The Axe. I remember being told that, like Judas, Ray had “allowed a place for Satan” into his heart, etc. etc.
Of course, had it happened today, the fallout would have been a million times worse than what they experienced in the early 1980s. All anyone would have to do is to Google “Ray Franz” and boom—it would be there for you to view in your own home.
If another member of the GB jumped ship now and did a ‘tell-all’, the fallout would be astronomical.
Reply
 
 

 John Baptist says:

 September 30, 2015 at 6:37 am
 

It’s only a matter of time when something like that happens. If Ray was alive today he would see his words proving true. This organization can never be wrong because of their self righteous arrogant attitude that is now catching up to them. CULT CULT CULT.
Reply
 

 Tara says:

 September 30, 2015 at 7:44 am
 

The more the Borg tell people not to look at internet sites the more ‘thinking’ people will. You tell a child not to do something and they will push the bounds. The more the Borg say ‘no’ the more the minions, hopefully, will say ‘why not?’ Of course there will always be those who do exactly what they are told ‘those faithful in the little things’… we cannot beat these ones into submission, nor do we want to. We have to spoon feed them a little unadulterated milk at a time… Yes I guess we can turn what we learned to our advantage. I can think of an elder and his wife who will hang on by the skin of their teeth until the GB sprout wings, a forked tail and turn red before they will say ‘well MAYBE we got it wrong’. For most of us we don’t want to turn away from our faith in God just from the deceit from the GB. I’ve said it before. I will never be part of any religious organisation again. My prayers are free and between me and Jehovah and through his son. If I meet him on judgement day and I have gotten it wrong then I can innocently say ‘these men you gave me deceived me by their cruelty’. Because that is how I view them. It’s not what the Bible says it’s their interpretation of it and how they have twisted it all. Lloyd has exposed them and judging by all the other sites I have taken a peek into, the word is out there and the can not do a thing about it. I wouldn’t put it past them to delay the reading of the letter just to try and say ‘we’ had made it all up’.
Reply
 
 
 

 Doug says:

 September 30, 2015 at 8:05 am
 

“Does anybody here think that there will be another GB body member who will jump ship like Ray Franz and expose more of the organizations dirty secrets??”
Moreover, Franz didn’t have the internet to leak his info in real time, so perhaps his departure was seen as ‘containable’ by the leaders of that time. Nowadays, however, If a GB member, or another leader/s were to defect from the Org, armed with damning information, available to the masses at the click of a mouse, I wonder if we would start seeing some Mafia type ‘hits’ against the whistleblowers. Anyone think they’d be capable of such a thing? Would they spin it internally, as a form of ‘theocratic warfare against Jehovah’s enemies?’ Makes ya wonder.
Reply
 
 
 

 Jake says:

 September 30, 2015 at 5:03 am
 

Son of God
 Son of Adam
 Son of Seth (etc)
 Son of David
 Son of Solomon (etc)
 Son of Joseph
 Chirst.
 All one generation as each generation overlaps another. . . It’s a biblical teaching, you wouldn’t understand. . . Just believe.

Reply
 

 eyes opened says:

 September 30, 2015 at 7:14 am
 

Hi Jake,
 Here’s an overlapping generation for two extremely important dates…creation of man and the flood. Methuselah overlapped with Adam and Noah. That’s about a 1600 year overlapping. So let’s see, from1914, we must have about 1500 more years to go, haha.

Reply
 
 
 

 pearlsB4swine says:

 September 30, 2015 at 5:10 am
 

Items to discuss at the next GB meeting…..
1. Bethelites to sign an official WT secrets clause.
 2. Copyright everything that is or has ever been thought, said, written, emailed, or conveyed in any way on WT property.

Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 8:45 am
 

@pearlsB4swine .I think you could be nearer to the TRUTH than you think !!… That is Exactly what I think will happen .. Bethelites signing an OFFICIAL SECRETS CLAUSE.. Then they can be SUED if they open their mouths!!
Reply
 

 Chiafade says:

 September 30, 2015 at 1:03 pm
 

Yes and then much like Sylvester Stallone in Rocky five when the promoter said “touch me and I’ll Sue” Rocky socks him and then says “Sue me for what?!”.
The poor broke bethelite then leaves bethel after leaving Tony Morris laid out on the floor. The end.

Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 8:09 pm
 

@Chiafade.. That would be a LOVELY SENSE of JUSTICE… Tony Morris Knocked FLAT OUT on his FACE!!!
Reply
 
 
 
 
 

 GEM says:

 September 30, 2015 at 5:20 am
 

@McFan: Yes… I do think there are some who will stand up for what is right. And now, as in Ray’s time, is the right time.
Ray had his supporters. He also made some very courageous, yet controversial decisions.
I find it hard to accept that all 7 are “Mental Midgets” looking for hard graft at Micky D’s.
There again, I could equally be… wrong!
Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 6:43 am
 

@Gem … GOOD FIRST Part of your comment…. BUT I HATE to DISAPPOINT YOU ….. YES !!!ALL 7 are DEFINITELY ….. ‘MENTAL MIDGETS!!!! Maybe I will grant you They don’t need to work at Micky D ? …Judging by the Way they dress & Property & shares they have accumulated,They Probably OWN 99% of MacDonalds Shares!! I like your SENSE of HUMOUR!!
Reply
 
 
 

 Chris says:

 September 30, 2015 at 5:48 am
 

Streisand Effect. Look it up, watchtower, because you still haven’t figured it out.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
Reply
 
 

 EverydayExplorer says:

 September 30, 2015 at 5:49 am
 

What a gift from the WTSoc. So glad the GB confirmed for us so quickly that the leak wasn’t a hoax. What a positive development in keeping the spotlight on this so-called charity’s repressive and cruel policies.
Reply
 

 Grace says:

 September 30, 2015 at 3:23 pm
 

Here’s a thought, maybe there’s a rogue group of Lawyers that have convinced them to send the letter so that the rumour can be verified. The paranoia would be through the roof!
Next GB meeting will be: “we can’t even trust our own bloody lawyers now”.
Reply
 
 
 

 MimiLove says:

 September 30, 2015 at 5:50 am
 

Part of my family left in the 80’s. They were bethelites and said they couldn’t discuss what they saw. I was to far into the borg to believe them, however I refused to shun them. That got me locked in a low lit room with a district overseer…still I believed in this crazy cult. I am so stupid and have wasted 51 years of my lift doing this…..I’m determined to rescue the rest of my family. Thank you Lloyd for everything you do. My donations have been redirected to your efforts!
Reply
 
 

 Tom Durbridge says:

 September 30, 2015 at 6:46 am
 

John Cedars, I recommend you not host any of Watchtower’s copyright material on your site. Instead, have it backed up locally and place it on other sites and link to it from within your own site. That way, the Watchtower’s legal department cannot request your web hosting company to remove the copyright material since the copyright material is not on their servers. So, if you wanted, you could upload the letter again, this time to another location such as dropbox, google drive etc and link to it.
Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 9:02 am
 

@Tom . Cautious as Serpents!! Good idea Tom!! Let’s all play Theocratic Warfare & BEAT the GB at their OWN GAME!!
Reply
 
 

 Juan Viejo says:

 September 30, 2015 at 1:10 pm
 

Tom Durbridge: Thank you for the suggestion, however, that is not quite accurate. If a document or photo visually appears on your website, even if it is sourced from another site, you are still subject to takedown action. What you can do is provide a link to a photo or document appearing on another site (as you would typically do for a news article in the New York Times). What you can do is quote freely from a document as long as you annotate heavily and do not over quote. It’s kind of like the old example I learned in journalism: You can write and say that “Mr. X was caught with his pants down in a public restroom” (if it’s true) but you can not publish a photo of him with his pants down – unless YOU took the photo. That leads to the obvious question: why would you be in a public restroom with your camera? So while Cedars could quote freely from a document he received, technically he could not show that document unless he had permission to do so. The problem then becomes one of credibility – which is a common defense whenever a blogger like Cedars gets “insider information” but nothing physical to confirm that information. It’s a very thin tightrope we all have to walk.
Reply
 

 Tom Durbridge says:

 September 30, 2015 at 1:22 pm
 

@Juan Viejo: That’s exactly what I am saying to do – simply link to it, quote from it as you like, but don’t have / present the content on one’s site. πŸ˜€
Reply
 

 Juan Viejo says:

 September 30, 2015 at 1:32 pm
 

Right on, Tom!
Reply
 
 
 
 
 

 A Patient Man says:

 September 30, 2015 at 8:19 am
 

Here is a little story for you, I was a ministerial servant at the age of 16, (back when they allowed that), then the years passed quickly to 1980, I was 28 years old. My wife and I decided not to have children, so we made the decision for me to go under the knife, (I love my wife by the way). I made the mistake of telling a lifetime friend, who was an elder, what I had done. I never dreamed that he would tell the body of elders. Pretty soon meeting parts stopped, no one said a word to me, including the one I considered a friend. When I asked them why they said we need to meet with you, once again no one told me why. When the meeting finally happened, the told me that they wrote the ” powers that be” and they recommended that I be removed as a servant. Then I received a letter from headquarters telling me, or should I say chastising me for the decision my wife and I made together. They said I did not have appreciation for the gift of life. The letter further mentioned what if the power of procreation were never returned to you in the future? Not a very good time in my life. Looking back I should have left then! And I ask you, now what is their stance on birth control? None of us wants to be told what very personal decisions we can make in our lives. Here again in my life was an example of FIG, Fear, Intimidation, Guilt. Sad, very sad.
Reply
 

 San Diego says:

 September 30, 2015 at 8:59 am
 

The GB has become just like the religions they used to make fun of or even condemn. In this case they poke at the Vatican for not allowing contraception, and yet they do the same thing, just their own version of it (the one you mentioned).
 Not to mention their hypocrisy. I remember a sister who told me about some “landmark” convention talk (I think in the 80s) where they basically said, Don’t have kids the end is too near. Now they are relying on Witness kids for memberships growth. Too bad for them the kids are leaving in leaps and bounds.
 The other point of hypocrisy: apparently the WT lawyers (who are volunteer Witnesses at the legal department in Patterson) are apparently excempt from the whole “don’t look at apostate websites”.
I dated a sister who went to the condemned higher education ivy league for law. Somewhere during that time she was df’d for other reasons. At one point she thought “maybe I should quit school.” So she called Bethel and asked their opinion, saying she had wanted to be a Bethel lawyer (remember the official stance has always been “Don’t go to college to get skills for Bethel, you can learn everything you need when you get here.”) They said “No! Don’t quit college we need lawyers at Bethel!” They are as 2-faced as Harvey Dent lol.

Reply
 
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 8:59 am
 

@A PatientMan .. I REALLY found your Comments Very Sad as like many here are Really Decent people who wanted to BELIEVE SO MUCH that this was the Organisation that JEHOVAH was Using & we all MANY TIMES Gave the Governing Body the Benefit of the Doubt ….NO LONGER WILL WE BE FOOLED,CONTROLLED & MANIPULATED by this GROUP …..of ‘THE SEVEN PYGMIES of BROOKLYN ‘ !!! … May STEPHEN LETTS HEAD .. ‘BLOW UP’ & May TONY MORRIS be STRANGLED by His TIGHT PANTS!!…. WOW !! That would be a Sight for SORE EYES…!! May Jehovah Show them Mercy & They SUFFER SLOWLY . .. Have a NICE DAY.. I do Love these AMERICAN SLOGANS…. Such Class!!
Reply
 
 
 

 Baccolo says:

 September 30, 2015 at 8:36 am
 

“Watchtower’s lawyers consider the leaked letter copyrighted material”….wow! They got us to accept they definetely are a Business player. So why they still hold the tax-exempt status? Because they’re a tool in the hands of the US State Department throught USAID?
 (Look at the USAID’s “Violence Prevention Programme”, highlighted even by JW.ORG: see
http://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/guatemala/youth-violence-in-schools).
 In compliance with this USAID-funded program the WBTS works alongside the Canadian State-based jesuite CECI in Guatemala: see
http://www.ceci.ca/en/where-we-work/americas/guatemala/projects/violence-prevention/).
 By withstanding the WBTS you are not withstanding a church; this is not a theological dispute; You are withstanding a political force!
 Remember this!
 Reclaim the political right to free speak against the Watchtower mobs threats! Don’t let your minds be trapped within a religious cube while confronting these matters. This corporation is playing a political role!

Baccolo
Reply
 
 

 Tara says:

 September 30, 2015 at 9:17 am
 

Just a little heads up for those who don’t go to meetings anymore. The 3 talk in the school for wk starting the 5th is ‘To whom does the term ‘Antichrist’ refer.
Thought that was kind of funny considering the leaked letter, the announcement to come on the Sunday prior to it etc. I also noticed that the glossary for the info refers to it as representing those who oppose Christ and or his disciples.
Off to work now :)
Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 3:28 pm
 

@ Tara .. The Answer to who is the ANTICHRIST??
 SIMPLE PIMPLE…. Like ‘The SLAVE CLASS’ as described by the Watchtower & in GREEK it is in The PLURAL …. Which Means the ANTI- CHRIST IS: …. Wait For It….., the MOTHER & FATHER of STEPHEN LETTS !!! I Told you it was SIMPLE . Tara.. GONE to WORKkkk!!! You Don’t know what you are MISSING??

Reply
 

 Tara says:

 September 30, 2015 at 4:45 pm
 

Lol I love this site…. slaps self across side of face… why didn’t I think of that. duh! slap slap slap. Yeah sunny warm day in Canada and I get to work. sucks to be me.
Reply
 
 
 
 

 Doc Obvious says:

 September 30, 2015 at 10:04 am
 

Can you feel the love of the brotherhood? Its awe inspiring.
Reply
 
 

 Jwpow says:

 September 30, 2015 at 10:13 am
 

Wasn’t sure if my first post went thru…I’m brand new at this…long time follower though.
 Just saw a interesting parallel between Pope Leo X Building project remodel of st. Peter’s and Warwick. ..one fueled the reformation and the other….I have done a multi month tour of duty at the site, basically they build everything once for practice, tear it down, start over and build it again, so it’s easy to see why it is way over budget.
 Back to topic though, if they dumb the meetings down any further (which the leaks indicate is the plan)…then it’s probably a good thing that they recently said we could drink ancholic beverages BEFORE we go.
 P.s.. can I count service time for this?

Reply
 

 Tara says:

 September 30, 2015 at 1:35 pm
 

Oh count as much time as you like sweetie :) Wow. so I hope they recycle all that timber!
Reply
 
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 3:33 pm
 

@JwPow .. SMOOTH ANSWER .. I answered in the Watchtower on the Alcoholic Beverages before Meetings which is now allowed. I said … Perhaps the ELDERs should have a meeting so they can DISCUSS what ALCOHOL we can drink % Proof Wise!! Got a Few Giggles!!
Reply
 
 
 

 Ted says:

 September 30, 2015 at 11:37 am
 

Pickled Brain.
 Your right about the smarties, they’re ok but don’t eat the red ones,
 don’t even give em to your dog. And if there’s blood in that tin of pet
 food he can’t have that either, and what about those headaches
 and bad stomachs you keep getting? It’s those aluminium pans,
 get rid of em, they result in almost as many problems as syphilis…
These are some of GOD’s directions, via the Watchtower.

Paranoia sets in when you become a JW, it’s like walking in a
 minefield, constantly looking for the traps that Satan has set for
 you. Your suspicious of all those worldly people who are under
 Satan’s control. You need JHVHs org, to guide you through the
 minefield. Did I really get conned with all that pig swill ? ( hog
 wash ) . It must have been someone else!

Thanks for your knowledgable and perceptive comments PB,
 and everyone, and to Lloyd & Co, the articles get more riveting
 all the time. I’m on the edge of my seat here.

Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 2:33 pm
 

@Ted . Well I regard it quite an honour to be commended by you Ted… I believe you said you were 84 so with your vast Knowledge of The Then as we Believed it TRUTH I always Read your comments carefully as it is from Genuine Knowledge of what you have been through & witnessed like many here on this website.
 I think CLAYTON WOODWORTH who was Editor of the Golden Age prior to the AWAKE came up with the Ridiculous assumptions of the Dangers of aluminium Saucepans & the Wonders of the E.R.A. Machine which was Farcical.. BUT the Way we Analysed Everything we ATE .. Like RED SMARTIES because of Beetles Blood which might have been a DREADED ‘FRACTION’or BOUGHT a Pair of Jeans from a Charity Shop which might have been worn by a Spiritualist?? .. WELCOME to the CRAZY CRAZY WORLD of the GOVERNING BOTTY??

Reply
 
 
 

 Thiago says:

 September 30, 2015 at 11:50 am
 

They should start sending letters by Snapchat
Reply
 

 Jwpow says:

 September 30, 2015 at 12:30 pm
 

What do mean, they invented disappearing corspondence, it’s called a b.o.e. letter. Please destroy all previous letters…this will self destruct in 15 seconds. .and we will disavow any knowledge of it.
Reply
 
 
 

 Juli says:

 September 30, 2015 at 1:11 pm
 

This is so funny. They have pretend lawyers, pretend policemen, and a pretend channel to God. Who wouldn’t want to live in their world of make believe? Glad to see they’re following you Lloyd, as you figured they were. Maybe you’ll be able to get through to those 7 thick headed old geezers in NY someday.
Reply
 
 

 Village Idiot says:

 September 30, 2015 at 1:55 pm
 

Cedars, You should issue a counter-notification. If you take this letter down it will embolden the Watchtower to issue similar complaints in the future.
Reply
 

 Garrett says:

 September 30, 2015 at 7:08 pm
 

Village idiot
I agree… Don’t give in..’fight the worthless
 F-ers’

Reply
 
 
 

 rob says:

 September 30, 2015 at 2:08 pm
 

The world that the gb and bethelites live in is very very institutional and insular – and their fort is protected by the lawyers and accountants, who think for them and pull all the strings.
But little did they realize that the protectors of the fort were not protecting the bethelites (inmates), but really were only protecting the gb and the vast fortune that the fort had accumulated and most importantly protecting their own livelihood.
I know it was mentioned earlier but it is so true that once they are released from the institution – or given the pink slip, so to speak – it is very hard for them to integrate into a normal environment and many just cannot cope.
Being let go from bethel is probably a shock to their system and will catapult these individuals into a world that they are not ready to tackle. Rank and file can maybe try to help these ones but only to a certain extent. Some will accept and some will cope some will be angry, some will revolt and some may just fade away.
Reply
 
 

 JB Reezner says:

 September 30, 2015 at 2:13 pm
 

I only have one active JW that I am able to talk to about my feelings about the Org. It pains me to see the gymnastics he will engage in to continue to believe that the Org is divinely endorsed. When I told him about all of the things happening in the Org right now (branch closings, Bethelites set to be displaced by the thousands, special pioneers defunded, building projects canceled), he said “Well, the pla-“, and in that instant, I knew he was about to tell me that the first few plagues affected the Israelites too (meaning that these things only show how close we are to the end). And he did go on to say that. And although I was not surprised, it still made me sad.
Reply
 

 JB Reezner says:

 September 30, 2015 at 4:05 pm
 

Well maybe he got the WHOLE word “plague”out. I’m just saying I’ve had these conversations with him so many times, his answers have become predictable. Maybe because I was able to blurt out horribly flawed rationalizations myself when I was neck-deep in the cult, for most of my life. God my comments are dumb. Sorry folks.
Reply
 

 Tara says:

 September 30, 2015 at 4:50 pm
 

If I hear one more comment about keeping up with that chariot i’m gonna to push them under it. Yeesh WHY CAN’T THEY WAKE UP!
Reply
 

 JB Reezner says:

 September 30, 2015 at 5:02 pm
 

Lol, thanks I needed that laugh, Tara πŸ˜€
Reply
 
 
 
 
 

 Jwpow says:

 September 30, 2015 at 2:50 pm
 

News flash ..just in from undercover Brooklyn reporter…Warwick will get a name change, Beth-Sarim 2,, also to be referred to as BS2. Be careful B.S.2 is now copyrighted
Reply
 

 pearlsB4swine says:

 September 30, 2015 at 2:53 pm
 

Beth-Sarim 2 or Beth Sham?
Reply
 
 
 

 pearlsB4swine says:

 September 30, 2015 at 2:50 pm
 

What next microfilm, coded letters?
 All very silly and totally arrogant of them.
 Or, they indeed have much to hide, and their paranoia is justified.

Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 3:47 pm
 

PearlsB4Swine. The NEXT 007 Will Be ..,, VIETNAM MORRIS the THIRD!!… I heard it from The ‘OAK ‘ Website …. Oops I meant ‘CEDARS’ … Getting My TREES MIXED UP??? Anyone who is 60 will understand .
Reply
 
 
 

 Jake says:

 September 30, 2015 at 3:06 pm
 

Can the governing body appreciate why so many people visit this site, because they apostates and liars?, no, because their looking for the answers, their looking for reasonable argumentation and a listening ear. What do the GB offer, hell fire and brim stone, paranoia, fear and an unyielding authority, of all the mistakes the Watchtower has made this has to be the worst, the arrogance and the Instilling of fear and position. Having studied the Watchtowers literature for 30 years and having considered the good with the bad, I think its time it apologised for the hurt it has caused and show in a meaningful and genuine way that it cares for people, I believe it should be more open, honest and willing to address concerns and criticisms.
 Is it any wonder the money is drying up and the growth rates stagnate?
 Faith on tracks, prescribed, judged, controlled, directed and ultimately pointless.

Reply
 
 

 Jwpow says:

 September 30, 2015 at 3:41 pm
 

Sorry, to comment up a strom, you know I’ve been in talking to myself, outta self-preservation for too long. But, here’s a question that if any knows the history of it I would love to hear it. The main drive thru Warrick is Kings drive..when and who came up with that name?
Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 7:59 pm
 

@Jwpow . KINGs DRIVE. Warwick…, who came up with that Name??…… Ermm … KING ANTHONY MORRIS … PROBABLY ??
Reply
 
 
 

 Jwpow says:

 September 30, 2015 at 4:16 pm
 

One more question, and a little off topic.
 Can anyone verify the story of the university professor in the latest video. I mean this guy was trained to be a priest then bounced all over the place religiously specking. Then finds jws, but what blow my mind was, it wasn’t hell fire or neutrality or something like that. …it was our handling of pedfiles and transparency of leadership. Really????

Reply
 

 Chiafade says:

 September 30, 2015 at 6:10 pm
 

That video was EXTREMELY suspect and timed to purposely counter all of their bad publicity. Propaganda at Its best. Instead of apologizing for the mishandling and revictimizing of child abuse sufferers they follow cult policy 101. Deny any wrongdoing and continue to brainwash followers.
What I say to JWs who try to defend the gb and their stubbornness is this: The pope just recently apologizeed for the mishandling of child abuse. When is the gb going to apologize? I’m met with DEAD silience. The most recent response I got was “well the pope didn’t really apologize”. (Rolls eyes bangs head on desk)
Reply
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 7:49 pm
 

@Chiafade. When those JWs say the POPE didn’t Really mean it when he APOLOGISED for CHILD ABUSE I will say to those JWs at LEAST he DAMNED WELL Said He Was SORRY for the Child Abuse within his Rsnks! SO the Minimum the Governing Body could do would be TO APOLOGISE !! But I Understand how you feel when you Ssid YOU ROLLED YOUR HEAD & BANGED YOUR EYES on the DESK!!!
Reply
 
 
 

 Pickled brain says:

 September 30, 2015 at 7:54 pm
 

@JwPow .. The HYPOCRISY of the GB knows no bounds . I mentioned that 5 minute 20 second video on TV.JW.Org on a previous post , ,,, I Really don’t know how the GB have the Nerve after they have been found GUILTY of Protecting CHILD ABUSERS by the Royal Commission in Australia !!
Reply
 
 
 

 sally says:

 September 30, 2015 at 5:58 pm
 

Brilliant! JUST Fabulous!! Watchtower has shot itself in the foot yet again! VERIFYING the letter is genuine! See how closely they follow jwsurvey!! Of COURSE I copied the letter and SAVED it, the better to SHARE It with EVERYONE! These posts of yours are being shared with the facebook groups, Thousands have seen it! Good work!! Keep up the good work! And now you know that any message you give to the governing body WILL be heard by watchtower as they apparently follow your posts!!
Reply
 
 

← Older Comments
 
Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *
Name *
Email *
Website
Comment

applications-education-miscellaneous.png
Comment posting guidelines:
Kindly observe the following requirements before posting any comments to our articles or pages:
◾ABUSIVE COMMENTS - Do not post comments that include swear words or may be considered abusive, lewd, blasphemous, obscene or threatening
◾ILLEGAL COMMENTS - Do not post comments that condone or propose illegal activity, or that breach copyright law
◾OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS - Do not post comments that are off-topic and bear no relation to the page or article
◾RELIGIOUS NEUTRALITY - Do not post comments that are evangelical in nature or may be construed as imposing one person's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) over those of another
◾LANGUAGE - Visitors from all countries and language groups are welcome. You may post comments in languages other than English, but we would appreciate if you could make any such comments brief. We would also be grateful if you could run any such comments through Google Translate and convert these to English, but this is not an absolute requirement.
◾LINKS - You may post links to third party websites, so long as (1) you limit these to 2 links per comment, and (2) the content on these links doesn't contravene ANY of the first four points. Specifically, you may not post URLs to websites that are evangelical in nature. Our links page has an extensive list of such sites for any who are curious about Christian beliefs in the context of Jehovah's Witnesses.

JWSurvey.org thanks all visitors in advance for respectfully observing these guidelines. Any who persistently fail to do so, despite warnings, may find themselves blocked from making further comments at the discretion of the site moderators, whose decision will be final and not open for debate.
 
  


 Notify me of new posts by email.
  
 

 


Click on 
Visit JWfacts.com for more information on JW beliefs
Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses
JW Recovery forum
Barbara Anderson's Watchtower Documents resource
Visit JWstruggle.com for helpful information on exiting JW mind control Visit TAZE.co for discussion on Jehovah's Witness developments



 
 
Support JWsurvey
Help us make continued improvements to this website and its content.
 

       
 

Article Categories
◾Apostates (28)
◾Blood transfusions (12)
◾Books (5)
◾Cedars' Blog (217)
◾Cedars' Story (4)
◾Celebrity JWs (2)
◾Child Abuse (52)
◾Child Indoctrination (16)
◾Divine Direction (4)
◾Domestic Abuse (2)
◾Doomsday Predictions (1)
◾Downsizing (10)
◾Evolution and creation (6)
◾General Information (1)
◾Governing Body (35)
◾Higher education (3)
◾History and scandals (6)
◾JW.org (8)
◾Life Stories (10)
◾Mental health (5)
◾Mini-Surveys (5)
◾News (196)
◾Property sales (5)
◾Publications (6)
◾Shunning (13)
◾Support (6)
◾Survey (12)
◾Undue influence (16)
◾Warwick headquarters (5)


Search JWsurvey

  

Subscribe to JW Survey


Enter your email address to receive notices of new posts by email.
Join 860 other subscribers
Email Address  
    
 

Listen to JWpodcast

Check out the latest episode of JW podcast! 

Latest John Cedars video
 

Popular JW sites in other languages
Languages         
More languages...

Select... Croatian Czech Dutch Estonian Finnish 1 Finnish 2 French 1 French 2 French 3 German 1 German 2 Hungarian Italian 1 Italian 2 Italian 3 Japanese Polish 1 Polish 2 Polish 3 Portuguese 1 Portuguese 2 Romanian Russian 1 Russian 2 Russian 3 Serbian 1 Serbian 2 Serbian 3 Slovak Spanish 1 Spanish 2
 

Top Posts & Pages
Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter 
 Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter 

Theocratic Ministry School GONE as 2015 Annual Meeting announcements leaked in advance 
 Theocratic Ministry School GONE as 2015 Annual Meeting announcements leaked in advance 

Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick 
 Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick 

More downsizing on the way? Multiple sources report bethel letter warning of further cuts 
 More downsizing on the way? Multiple sources report bethel letter warning of further cuts 

Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh 
 Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh 

Dear Watchtower, THANK YOU for your "tight pants" copyright complaint! 
 Dear Watchtower, THANK YOU for your "tight pants" copyright complaint! 



 
 

Click on  

Open Offer

Open Offer to all bethelites
 Do you work at Brooklyn, Patterson or Wallkill? If so, please click here.


Our Promise
Making corrections
 Is there something incorrect or unfactual on this website? If so, please let us know and we will correct it.


2015 results at a glance
Number of respondents to the 2015 Global Survey
Site Stats
Visitor stats for JWsurvey

Like us on Facebook!







 
Cedars’ Twitter Feed
 

 
 
Who's Online
◾0 Members.
◾58 Guests.


Reader Comments
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter


Menu
◾About JW Survey
◾Contact Us
◾Experiences
◾Get Involved
◾Global Surveys ◾2011 Global Survey
◾2012 Global Survey
◾2013 Global Survey
◾2014 Global Survey
◾2015 Global Survey

◾JW Broadcasting
◾JWawake.com
◾Links
◾Videos
◾Welcome


Login
 ◾Login


Scan JWsurvey.org

 



Copyright © 2011-2013 JWsurvey.org. Site design and support by The Small Web Master.

    StatCounter - Free Web Tracker and Counter     



http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/watchtower-issues-dmca-takedown-over-leaked-annual-meeting-letter#comments











Skip to content
JWsurvey 


Welcome

Cedars’ Blog

About JW Survey

Global Surveys
»





















Videos

JW Broadcasting

Get Involved

Links

Contact Us
  



Videos

New videos are constantly being uploaded to the John Cedars YouTube channel.
Here is a playlist featuring the most recent uploads…
 <br />
And here is a playlist of recommended videos from other channels…




Share this:



















in
Share
.


Print
.
Like this:


 
13 Responses to Videos

 KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:

 August 25, 2013 at 6:55 pm
 

With every word they reveal and “impart” far more than they ever intended…
Reply
 
 

 george says:

 August 27, 2013 at 4:45 am
 

Sorry Cedars, I can only access the first video on my I pad. There are a lot of over sized play icons and they won’t work.
Reply
 
 

 Luke says:

 October 27, 2013 at 5:27 pm
 

Continue the good work on this site that expose what Watchtower Organization really are — a fanatic end-time driven cult that only serve interests of its leaders. I left this
 cult three years ago for good. My only regret is that I had not left the Watchtower Cult earlier! On Easter Sunday this year, I was baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and received into Eastern Orthodox Church, apostolic Church that preserved the Faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.

Cedar, you have my blessings of your work on this site that
 will yet help millions of JWs to see the truth of so-called ‘Truth’.

Reply
 
 

 Fred says:

 November 2, 2013 at 12:09 pm
 

Forget taking your numbers from a 1974 yearbook if you question the amount of those killed, interned, etc get the numbers from the Holocaust museum. You forgot to mention the ‘JEWS’ were and its quoted several times in the Watchtower publications as it is related in the bible, “ONCE GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE” but they did not remain that because of their actions. Your quotes from WT publications are based on the latter that they fell out of favour in God’s eyes. They therefor were NOT written in an anti-Semitic nature. Many Jews have become JW’s over the years are they lesser beings because they were of Jewish blood?…ABSOLUTELY NOT! All races are equal so this video in my opinion is twisted in its presentation. Not to mention the ridiculous claim of Rutherford’s so called love letter to Adolf Hitler. No blinders on here, I have checked the facts. Sorry but this video paints an untruthful twist of events and statements about the WT as regards the comments on the Nazi’s and Jews.
Reply
 
 

 Palma says:

 February 28, 2014 at 3:48 am
 

Hi everybody! Hi cedars!
 I found this article about a discovery in egypt that brings light to the origin of story of joseph in the bible.
 What do you think?
http://www.davidovits.info/the-lost-fresco-and-the-bible-my-new-book-in-french/
Reply
 
 

 Idris says:

 March 27, 2014 at 8:12 am
 

Thank you for this page, it has been a great help to me, as I seek the truth of the word of God, however I noticed in the video ‘Does the Bible speak of ‘Paradise Earth’ the speaker quotes Luke 21v43 twice, regarding Jesus word on the cross, there should be a correction note as the verse he mentions is in Luke 23 v 43.
 Keep up the good work

Reply
 
 

 Julia Orwell says:

 July 17, 2014 at 3:47 am
 

Been to internationals before and this elaborate souvenir thing is entirely new. The last one I went to in 2009, the last ones they had, had nothing like this so it’s not a matter of you having not noticed it in the past, it’s a matter of it being a new phenomenon.
 I theorize that the wt motives for this involve keeping the masses busy and therefore obedient. Jws would volunteer to do this because there are no other legitimate outlets for creative expression. Armageddon being near has nothing to do with it: it’s about keeping the sheeple busy and happy. Making stupid trinkets is also a team building activity as it involves jws working together, thus reinforcing the herd mentality jws have.

Reply
 
 

 frankie fernandez says:

 February 27, 2015 at 4:44 pm
 

dear friends I was baptized in 1974. Thank God I am no longer a member of the WT. Free at last and oh what a relief it is. A member of my former congregation who I considerd my best friend molested a minor. There was a big argument amognst the elders on the judicial committee. One elder who was a maverick, wanted to notify the police. But, instead they followed the instuctions of the society. They kept this crime against the child, hush hush. So as not to tarnish the name of Jehovah. But in reality it was a coverup to protect the wt’s reputation. Meanwhile this poor child that was raped has to carry the heavy burden of a victim for the rest of thier lives without compensation and without justice. While the abuser has remaind a member in good standing. The congregation he is attending now has not been notified that he is a sexual preditor.
Reply
 
 

 Kirtley W. Burggraf says:

 March 11, 2015 at 11:16 am
 

Tell me, since governing body members are elected (replacing someone who dies) at what point do do they become “divinely inspired” or “spirit guided”? Were they always thus in the lower ranks or does this just “happen” the moment that they are appointed? What’s Watchtower’s take on this?
Reply
 
 

 Alone in MD says:

 March 31, 2015 at 6:00 pm
 

Regards your video on the Memorial Service. I am one of those “non believers” married to a baptized witness. I go to just keep the peace but I’ve made it known that I consider this service one of the worst religious ceremonies that I have ever been to. “Anointed What”. Also it was announced at last years meeting that “this may be the last memorial service”. They are at it again. Thanks for the great videos.
Reply
 
 

 frankie fernandez says:

 May 10, 2015 at 9:50 pm
 

IF CHRIST WAS ENTHRONGED IN 1914, WHY ARE THE WITNESES STILL CELEBRATING THE MEMORIAL? CHRIST SAID THAT AFTER HIS ARRIVAL NO ONE WAS TO CELEBRATE THE MEMORIAL .ALSO HE SAID THAT THE DAY OF HIS PRESENSE, IT WILL BE LIKE LIGHTNING FROM ONE POINT OF THE EARTH TO ANOTHER. LIGHTNING TRAVELS AT THE SPEED OF 3500 MILES PER SECOUND. SO IT WILL TRAVEL AROUND THE GLOBE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE. HE ALSO SAID THAT ALL EYES WILL SEE HIM. NOT LIKE THE WTS THAT SAYS WE ARE IN HIS INVISIBLE PRESENSE.
Reply
 
 

 pj wilcox says:

 July 31, 2015 at 3:21 am
 

I watched the latest video of the inept elder being questioned by the commission. Who prepared this man for testimony? You all are aware of the dentist who shot Cecil the lion in Kenya? Well his life is over. He is in hiding. What he did ,did not break laws in Kenya and his is in a world of trouble with public sentiment. But this elder being questioned is far worse. He covered deeds that drove people to think of killing themselves. Should he not go into hiding? Is his life over? Has he know conscience? Emotion, caring? You know the answer. Bet ya, damage control is working overtime on this.
Reply
 
 

 Adrian says:

 September 8, 2015 at 3:32 am
 

I think the Royal Commission videos demonstrate that fragility of the governance within the WT society. Yes, it’s an Australia branch issue but cross examination only points to the seat of control on which the governing body members sit. Everything starts and stops with the governing body, they set the policy but where are they? Sitting comfortably in NY watching from a distance ready to abdicate any responsibility whatsoever. A governing body governs and leads but I see no leadership I see the followers talking and being bashed around the head with questions, all too easy for the legal team.
However, it might just be me but does anyone else not see the lawyer’s gap in knowledge regarding the fundamental rationale for the WT society policies, they fall back in their comfort zone knowing that they can say ‘well we don’t have the authority to go beyond the bible.’
It’s this gap in knowledge of the legal representatives which the WT society exploit. I mean nobody is going to ask ‘ where actually did this translation come from anyway?’ What were the academic qualifications of the translators? Is there a possibility that you have interpreted things wrongly or even worse, translated things incorrectly? If there’s a possibility that your interpretation on how to deal with modern day child abuse cases in congregations may be flawed, then are you in agreement that your policies could result in lasting harm to victims of abuse? In my view that translation is the ‘elephant in the room’ every scholar knows it’s perverse but no one is holding this cult to account. So easy to say it’s all in the bible but should they really be saying it’s all in the NWT instead?
The WT society in the videos almost give of an innocence as if to say, ‘ but that’s what we understand from the scriptures’, and I think it works in their favor, but a savvy legal representative would do well to tease out the basis for the rendering of certain verses on which doctrine, policy and organisational decisions are based. So far the WT Society appears to be one step ahead because their authority is not a person but a book, which they are ‘only trying to understand and live by’. Expose the origin of the NWT and the basis for so many ridiculous uncaring decisions is called into question.
Reply
 
 

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *
Name *
Email *
Website
Comment

applications-education-miscellaneous.png
Comment posting guidelines:
Kindly observe the following requirements before posting any comments to our articles or pages:
◾ABUSIVE COMMENTS - Do not post comments that include swear words or may be considered abusive, lewd, blasphemous, obscene or threatening
◾ILLEGAL COMMENTS - Do not post comments that condone or propose illegal activity, or that breach copyright law
◾OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS - Do not post comments that are off-topic and bear no relation to the page or article
◾RELIGIOUS NEUTRALITY - Do not post comments that are evangelical in nature or may be construed as imposing one person's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) over those of another
◾LANGUAGE - Visitors from all countries and language groups are welcome. You may post comments in languages other than English, but we would appreciate if you could make any such comments brief. We would also be grateful if you could run any such comments through Google Translate and convert these to English, but this is not an absolute requirement.
◾LINKS - You may post links to third party websites, so long as (1) you limit these to 2 links per comment, and (2) the content on these links doesn't contravene ANY of the first four points. Specifically, you may not post URLs to websites that are evangelical in nature. Our links page has an extensive list of such sites for any who are curious about Christian beliefs in the context of Jehovah's Witnesses.

JWSurvey.org thanks all visitors in advance for respectfully observing these guidelines. Any who persistently fail to do so, despite warnings, may find themselves blocked from making further comments at the discretion of the site moderators, whose decision will be final and not open for debate.
 
  


 Notify me of new posts by email.
  
 

 


Click on 
Visit JWfacts.com for more information on JW beliefs
Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses
JW Recovery forum
Barbara Anderson's Watchtower Documents resource
Visit JWstruggle.com for helpful information on exiting JW mind control Visit TAZE.co for discussion on Jehovah's Witness developments



 
 
Support JWsurvey
Help us make continued improvements to this website and its content.
 

       
 

Article Categories
◾Apostates (28)
◾Blood transfusions (12)
◾Books (5)
◾Cedars' Blog (217)
◾Cedars' Story (4)
◾Celebrity JWs (2)
◾Child Abuse (52)
◾Child Indoctrination (16)
◾Divine Direction (4)
◾Domestic Abuse (2)
◾Doomsday Predictions (1)
◾Downsizing (10)
◾Evolution and creation (6)
◾General Information (1)
◾Governing Body (35)
◾Higher education (3)
◾History and scandals (6)
◾JW.org (8)
◾Life Stories (10)
◾Mental health (5)
◾Mini-Surveys (5)
◾News (196)
◾Property sales (5)
◾Publications (6)
◾Shunning (13)
◾Support (6)
◾Survey (12)
◾Undue influence (16)
◾Warwick headquarters (5)


Search JWsurvey

  

Subscribe to JW Survey


Enter your email address to receive notices of new posts by email.
Join 860 other subscribers
Email Address  
    
 

Listen to JWpodcast

Check out the latest episode of JW podcast! 

Latest John Cedars video
 

Popular JW sites in other languages
Languages         
More languages...

Select... Croatian Czech Dutch Estonian Finnish 1 Finnish 2 French 1 French 2 French 3 German 1 German 2 Hungarian Italian 1 Italian 2 Italian 3 Japanese Polish 1 Polish 2 Polish 3 Portuguese 1 Portuguese 2 Romanian Russian 1 Russian 2 Russian 3 Serbian 1 Serbian 2 Serbian 3 Slovak Spanish 1 Spanish 2
 

Top Posts & Pages
Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter 
 Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter 

Theocratic Ministry School GONE as 2015 Annual Meeting announcements leaked in advance 
 Theocratic Ministry School GONE as 2015 Annual Meeting announcements leaked in advance 

Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick 
 Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick 

More downsizing on the way? Multiple sources report bethel letter warning of further cuts 
 More downsizing on the way? Multiple sources report bethel letter warning of further cuts 

Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh 
 Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh 

Dear Watchtower, THANK YOU for your "tight pants" copyright complaint! 
 Dear Watchtower, THANK YOU for your "tight pants" copyright complaint! 



 
 

Click on  

Open Offer

Open Offer to all bethelites
 Do you work at Brooklyn, Patterson or Wallkill? If so, please click here.


Our Promise
Making corrections
 Is there something incorrect or unfactual on this website? If so, please let us know and we will correct it.


2015 results at a glance
Number of respondents to the 2015 Global Survey
Site Stats
Visitor stats for JWsurvey

Like us on Facebook!







 
Cedars’ Twitter Feed
 

 
 
Who's Online
◾0 Members.
◾59 Guests.


Reader Comments
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter
◾Pickled brain on Watchtower issues DMCA takedown over leaked annual meeting letter


Menu
◾About JW Survey
◾Contact Us
◾Experiences
◾Get Involved
◾Global Surveys ◾2011 Global Survey
◾2012 Global Survey
◾2013 Global Survey
◾2014 Global Survey
◾2015 Global Survey

◾JW Broadcasting
◾JWawake.com
◾Links
◾Videos
◾Welcome


Login
 ◾Login


Scan JWsurvey.org

 



Copyright © 2011-2013 JWsurvey.org. Site design and support by The Small Web Master.

    StatCounter - Free Web Tracker and Counter     


http://jwsurvey.org/video-home




Tweets
Follow



9h
 Going To Win   @amadmavworld 

@cedarsjwsurvey I admire you for the work you do. Keep up the fight, and never give up! Watchtower is getting desperate.

Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
 Expand

 
29 Sep
 JW.borg   @jw_borg 

@cedarsjwsurvey Heard you got DMCA'd for recent org letter post? Well done sir!

Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
 Expand Reply
Retweet
Favorite
 

29 Sep
 Going To Win   @amadmavworld 

Watchtower tries to cover up leaked annual meeting letter - Cedars' vlog no. 93 #watchtower #jw #funny  http://youtu.be/LrLM-CtK8q0

Retweeted by Lloyd Evans


 Show Media

 
28 Sep
 Reveal        ✔   @reveal 

Jehovah's Witnesses have invoked "theocratic warfare" to mislead outsiders. What that may mean for sex abuse: http://ow.ly/SJcWF

Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
 Expand

 
26 Sep
 Evan Harrison Cass   @evancass 

'Simplifying' to $urvive? @CedarsJWsurvey: http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/theocratic-ministry-school-gone-as-2015-annual-meeting-announcements-leaked-in-advance … Dang about the Ministry School; practical skills were gained for sure.

Retweeted by Lloyd Evans


 Show Summary

 
27 Sep
 AvoidJW.org   @avoidjw_org 

@cedarsjwsurvey writes a finely written post about the lies from GB member Geoffrey Jackson: http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/12-things-we-learned-from-geoffrey-jacksons-testimony-at-the-royal-commission

Retweeted by Lloyd Evans


 Show Summary

 
28 Sep
 Snoop-a-Loop   @Alesiskorg 

@cedarsjwsurvey I also think KHs will be on chopping block too. Easy cash grab for them

Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
 Expand

 
28 Sep
 AvoidJW.org   @avoidjw_org 

Is Watchtower / http://JW.org  (the organization behind Jehovah's Witnesses) starting to implode? Let's hear @cedarsjwsurvey view.

Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
 Expand

 
28 Sep
 Lloyd Evans   @cedarsjwsurvey 

A further #watchtower leak suggests deep frustrations among bethelites as lay-offs loom... #jehovahswitnesses http://wp.me/p1TWXJ-27c



 Show Summary

 
26 Sep
 Lloyd Evans   @cedarsjwsurvey 

One #jehovahswitness in Florida thinks it's ok to preach to grieving families via the obituaries... http://wp.me/p1TWXJ-273



 Show Summary

 
25 Sep
 Lloyd Evans   @cedarsjwsurvey 

If new #watchtower releases were honest... pic.twitter.com/Gtg95V7Mvr

View image on Twitter
 Expand

 
25 Sep
 AvoidJW.org   @avoidjw_org 

@cedarsjwsurvey has released the http://JWsurvey.org  Global Jehovah's Witnesses Survey Results for 2014: http://jwsurvey.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/2014-JW-Survey-Results-PDF.pdf

Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
 Expand

 
24 Sep
 AvoidJW.org   @avoidjw_org 

Jehovah's Witnesses are to get rid of their mid-week Theocratic Ministry School. http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/theocratic-ministry-school-gone-as-2015-annual-meeting-announcements-leaked-in-advance … #exclusive #apostatenews

Retweeted by Lloyd Evans


 Show Summary

 
24 Sep
 Lloyd Evans   @cedarsjwsurvey 

My video discussing the annual meeting leak is now up on YouTube! #jehovahswitnesses https://youtu.be/G3xa71kfh-A  via @YouTube



 Show Media

 
23 Sep
 JWR   @JWRecovery 

Reveal: Jehovah's Witnesses routinely lie in court to protect the church's interests https://www.revealnews.org/article/jehovahs-witnesses-can-hide-the-truth-in-court-to-protect-religion/ … #jworg #jwonly #watchtower

Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
 Expand

 
24 Sep
 Lloyd Evans   @cedarsjwsurvey 

A #jehovahswitness insider has leaked details of some BIG announcements at #watchtower's forthcoming annual meeting http://wp.me/p1TWXJ-26t



 Show Summary

 
23 Sep
 Lloyd Evans   @cedarsjwsurvey 

Things are starting to get interesting for bethelites if multiple sources are to be believed... #downsizing http://wp.me/p1TWXJ-26l



 Show Summary

 
23 Sep
 Lloyd Evans   @cedarsjwsurvey 

I've just passed the 5,000-subscriber milestone. Thanks to all who have helped make this possible! https://www.youtube.com/user/johncedars1929



 Show Summary

 
23 Sep
 Lloyd Evans   @cedarsjwsurvey 

A quick rundown of the results of the 2014 survey of #jehovahswitnesses from the heart of Zagreb! https://youtu.be/yplwaE8M4AU  via @YouTube



 Show Media

 
23 Sep
 Lloyd Evans   @cedarsjwsurvey 

Fantastic piece by @treybundy on "theocratic warfare," AKA organizationally-mandated lying https://www.revealnews.org/article/jehovahs-witnesses-can-hide-the-truth-in-court-to-protect-religion/ … via @reveal

 Expand

 
Load More




Tweet to @cedarsjwsurvey



http://jwsurvey.org/