AtheistNexus.org discussion on anti-sexual times

There's Very Little Traffic in AN's Secular Sexuality Forum. Did We ALL Grow Up in Anti-Sexual Times?
Posted by tom sarbeck on September 11, 2015 at 5:43am in Introductions
View Discussions
.



I grew up in anti-sexual times in the anti-sexual Catholic religion.
 My ignorance, and my wife's, harmed our marriage. Happily, for many people those times are gone.
 One topic I want to explore is the part erotica/pornography has in people's lives.
 Specifically, I'm in my eighties and my choicest fantasies relate to my having been born, without my consent, into an often tyrannical and occasionally violent home. My fantasies have for decades entertained me but I don't want the corresponding activity in any real relationship I make.
 Is anyone interested, or able, or daring?

Tags: fantasy, reality, sexuality



 Like 

.
Share   
  



Views: 319
▶ Reply to This
..


Replies to This Discussion
 Permalink Reply by jay H on September 11, 2015 at 11:40am
Actually I think we're in antisexual times now. Everything, including natural interaction between the sexes, needs to be weighed because someone somewhere will bring up the 'sexism' approbation.
 So to start things off, yese erotica can be fun, but everyone has different takes. My ex wife (and still good friend) got much more into the bisexual D&S and some other forms of kink, while I never got comfortable with that world, preferring the more conventionally hetero world. I like classic pinups, my current wife has modeled quite a few times for me--we even have a nude painting of her, done by an artist in Paris, hanging in our home.
▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by tom sarbeck on September 13, 2015 at 11:31pm


...we're in antisexual times now.
Relative to the 1960s, yes. Relative to the 1940s and earlier, NO.
 Those times were bizarre and the list of bizarreries (it's in OED) was long.

Everything ... needs to be weighed, or it's sexism.
The stuff men got away with was sexism and quitting habits isn’t easy. The ancient Chinese had a relevant curse: "May you live in a time of change." Much has changed since the 1950s.
 I did some S/M kink and agree that it's a more intense kind of foreplay. It might result from low self esteem. A sadist might say, "If you accept pain I will know you love me." A masochist might say, "I need you so much that I will accept pain."
 I'm 84 and have a few age-inappropriate pinup pix on walls. I write my own porn; it exercises my mind.

▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by Michael Penn on September 11, 2015 at 5:08pm

I have no real hangups except for the fact that I don't like kink, or bondage, or playing cop  or doctor, etc. I'm not into pain of any kind or scat in any way. Some of it for me was just common sense. The things I don't do is just the way I flowed.
Erotica is good but porn movies really suck. They have gross sex acts and are filmed for the viewer and not the way things are really done. If I did cunniligus, for example, the way it's done in films I would be laughed at. If I watch porn I don't like the sound on because the fake noises drive me nuts. Some people tell me they would watch porn if it had a good "plot." I thought it was all about screwing. How many "plots can you have to that?
When my wife lived with me we did pretty good until others started talking sex with her. I think women talk that more than men do. Before long you are trying something that seems impossible. A couple that had a sex swing hanging from the cieling and they lived in a mobile home. Oh, come on now. Who in the hell would believe that one? It won't support your weight.
▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by tom sarbeck on September 14, 2015 at 12:23am

Michael, for several years I was a shift supervisor at San Francisco Sex Information. Callers' ages ranged from five to sixty-plus years. In a three-hour shift each volunteer averaged 15-16 calls. I told newly-trained volunteers, "If you have any hangups you don't know about, our eight- and nine-year-old callers will help you find them."
Most volunteers hadn't had any sex ed and were at SFSI because they wanted to make it available to young callers. Many, like I, had quit Catholicism. For me, SFSI was a remedy for RC "poison".
We talked about distinguishing erotica from porn and concluded that doing so is much like saying "What I do is okay and what you do is not okay."
Most porn movies made by men are about screwing and are so monotonous that they "suck loudly". Most porn movies made by women have plots.
Fifteen years before I was at SFSI, my wife lived in Texas. She was teaching fifth grade and the school system had a comprehensive sex ed program that started in second grade.
Owning that sex swing probably entertained their friends. Using it would have pulled the ceiling down and maybe awakened their neighbors.

▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by tom sarbeck on September 15, 2015 at 1:33pm

About most woman-made porn movies having plots, many of those plots deal with more than feminism. Some of them deal with majority (= straight white male) attitudes toward other minorities.
Other minorities? Yes. In the US of A women have long been treated like racial and other minorities.

▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by Dyslexic's DOG on September 12, 2015 at 4:35pm

Here, many laws are anti-sexuality and much of the psychological training they give those in the law, regarding human sexuality and development are anti-scientific and indeed wrong.
It has become the case that things we considered normal as children and childhood interactions that had nothing to do with sexuality in our minds at the time are now frowned upon and considered bad.
There has become a massive and irrational cultural cringe, regarding sexuality in general.
Many of the modern laws we are facing, not only concerning sexuality, but in general are now not even thought our rationally, as many are simply knee-jerk reactions to public outcry.  It appears nobody wants to sit down and do some rational critical thinking in the justice system.
Or maybe they are incapable of this.

▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by tom sarbeck on September 14, 2015 at 12:48am

DD, I don't know Australian laws or training. I hope you will identify what's anti-scientific or wrong.
I agree that kids do things without sexual intent that stirs sexual thoughts or responses in adults. Many parents called SFSI and asked what we did. Almost all of them thanked us for answering their kids' questions. One man told me he didn't want his 16-year-old daughter to about sex. If she talks with her friends, she knows a lot more than he does.
Here in the US of A, the GOP religious right do strike fear into GOP politicians. In California we have a "consenting adults" law that protects sexual minorities. Another law requires schools that have sex ed programs to teach facts, not the GOP religious right's fiction.

▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by Dyslexic's DOG on September 14, 2015 at 1:58am

Well, Tom.
Much of my early childhood and my siblings, cousins etc.., mirrored some of the ideas of Freud, but when I got into an argument with a person trained to work in corrections concerning psychology and in particular Sigmund Freud, she denied that children behave that way Freud observed.
She told me that they have totally dismissed all of Freud's ideas in their training.
Yet, I don't agree with most of Freudian concepts, some of his ideas must have come from observation and it matched much of my observation concerning the behaviour of children during the 1960s.
I think his Oedipus Complex was a bit of a stab in the dark, and ultimately wrong, but other ideas of Freud which they have completely thrown out, were and are still valid.
They have thrown the baby out with the bathwater, in the name of political/social correctness, because Freud's observations are somewhat distasteful.
This is indeed a form of Institutionalized Irrational Cognitive Bias.
There are other issues, but this was the first that showed dogmatic ignorance of past research, in the name of bias.
It is the same bias I noticed in theism, if it is tasteful or gives our lives meaning it is truth, if it is distasteful to humanity, it is wrong, even though it is natural in all apes/mammal species.
Because we are humans, we must not have such behaviour.
This is ridiculously naive.

▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by tom sarbeck on September 14, 2015 at 5:17am

DD, you seem committed to Freud despite all that has changed since his time.
If you want to hear the views of others,, I hope you will start a discussion.

▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by k.h. ky on September 13, 2015 at 12:32am
The more things change the more they stay the same. I was to young for the sixties but more than made up for it in the early eighties. Then came the AIDS epidemic but by then I was aged out of it.
 Now AIDS is occurring more in people over fifty.
 I'm sure there is still plenty of sex being had by the young. The urge to procreate will not be stopped. The ways the young deal with their urges will continue to evolve.
 Except for the Palin family. Seems they still rely on abstinence only and continue to get pregnant without being wed.
 I wonder which part is confusing them ;)
▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by Dyslexic's DOG on September 13, 2015 at 4:14am

Though that Imam who stated that if you masturbate, your hand will get pregnant when you die, which has some girls too frightened to try it.
:-D~

▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by tom sarbeck on September 14, 2015 at 5:21am

DD, do you have evidence of that claim's having frightened girls too much to try masturbation?
▶ Reply


‹ Previous

http://atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/there-s-very-little-traffic-here-did-we-all-grow-up-in-anti?id=2182797%3ATopic%3A2643279&page=1#comments





















There's Very Little Traffic in AN's Secular Sexuality Forum. Did We ALL Grow Up in Anti-Sexual Times?
Posted by tom sarbeck on September 11, 2015 at 5:43am in Introductions
View Discussions
.



I grew up in anti-sexual times in the anti-sexual Catholic religion.
 My ignorance, and my wife's, harmed our marriage. Happily, for many people those times are gone.
 One topic I want to explore is the part erotica/pornography has in people's lives.
 Specifically, I'm in my eighties and my choicest fantasies relate to my having been born, without my consent, into an often tyrannical and occasionally violent home. My fantasies have for decades entertained me but I don't want the corresponding activity in any real relationship I make.
 Is anyone interested, or able, or daring?

Tags: fantasy, reality, sexuality



 Like 

.
Share   
  



Views: 316
▶ Reply to This
..


Replies to This Discussion
 Permalink Reply by Dyslexic's DOG on September 14, 2015 at 5:55am

My tongue was in my right cheek at the time I typed that.
Is that evidence?
:-D~

▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by tom sarbeck on September 14, 2015 at 2:20pm

DD, it's weird to tell people that masturbation can get their hands pregnant after they die.
Religious leaders might say something that weird.
1. They want to be religious leaders, and
2, They know religious people might believe it and accept their leadership.

My evidence? I was six years old when my dad put me in Catholic schools, and kids that young can believe almost anything when it's repeated often enough.

And look at your screen pic. A guy who looked like that did say some weird stuff.
Give us a break; use a pic of you with your tongue in a cheek.
Preferably one of your own cheeks.

▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by Dyslexic's DOG on September 14, 2015 at 5:19pm

Hey, Tom.
My pic has my own face on J.C.s body and my tongue is almost consistently in my cheek.
Though I cannot see if you have a mouth or not on your profile pic, which looks like something catching a ball.
Actually it reminds me of a toy my parents got me when I was 5 years old that had a blower and suspended a ball above it with that air, within a week I had it disassembled to figure out how it worked and my mum had to put it back together.  I'm a curious person, since I was born, but I hated putting things back together, once I figured how it works.  That was my mum's job.  She said that she deserved a degree in engineering after putting everything I pulled apart back together.

:-D~
▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by tom sarbeck on September 14, 2015 at 6:28pm


The more things change the more they stay the same.
Kathy, easy-to-say ideas can be important and hard to explain. For me those words translate to:
1) There’s nothing new under the sun,
2) There was something new for my four siblings but they were busy raising their kids and didn’t have the energy that changing requires, and
3) There was something new for me and, being divorced and having no kids to raise, I felt a need to change and had enough energy to change.
Yeah, I sometimes analyze. I will do the essay elsewhere.

I found the early 1980s in San Francisco very exciting.
I had left the computer business and decided to not go to law school. I had been politically active for ten years and was doing the research for a book on political power.
The feminism of the 1960s had taken form as the Equal Rights Amendment. All but two or three states had ratified it and I was one of several male members of SF NOW who were working for its ratification. Most SF NOW members were straight but for the first time I met some lesbians.
Three women who had been in the Sexual Freedom League started SF Sex Information. Wanting to recover from 12 years of Catholicism’s bizarre sexual teachings, I was one of about 50 people of all sexual persuasions who’d taken SFSI’s sex educator training and were answering the phones.
The AIDS epidemic was just starting.
 There was plenty of sex being had by people of many ages and persuasions. There was almost no sex education in schools and I was helping young people do sex safely and better than I had done it.
Would you believe that very few women knew of clitoral orgasms and very few men knew of multiple orgasms--female or male. New skills were evolving.
The 1980s were indeed exciting.
The Palin kids, not yet conceived of, were not yet relying on abstinence and getting pregnant without being wed. :)

▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by k.h. ky on September 14, 2015 at 6:44pm
Tom, l was referring strictly to sex with that remark. Young people think prior generations knew nothing of sex and it was invented, and improved upon, by their generation. Some people are very adventurous some are not. There have always been gays, straights, bi's cross dressers, twosomes, threesomes, foursomes and any variations we can think of on that.
 And the eighties were awesome. Thanks largely to easily accessible birth conrol
 And for those of us that liked some awesome drugs ;)
▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by Michael Penn on September 14, 2015 at 7:17pm

Here's a young girl today with a tongue ring and she says " I bed jew don no wanda ton rin is for." The first thing I said is if you scratch me with that thing I'll punch your lights out. Then I told her to go to a speech therapist.
I'll bet it would really be hard to talk if you had 2 of them!
▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by Dyslexic's DOG on September 15, 2015 at 4:43am

You'd probably understand them better with the same number of rings in your ears.
Or have I been watching movies too much!  :-D~
Translator rings like the translator fish on "Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy".

▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by tom sarbeck on September 15, 2015 at 2:05pm

Maybe I get it, Kathy. You don't agree that prior generations knew nothing of sex and it was invented, and improved upon, by young people.
Do I have it?
Kinsey's 1948 book on male sexuality caused controversy.
His 1952(?) book on female sexuality caused a verbal firestorm. Victorianism still ruled and women of the middle and lower classes were supposed to allow sex, not enjoy it.
At about that time my mother said something daring. With five kids, she said a baby was heaven going in and hell coming out.
Twenty-plus years later I repeated it to some "alleged" feminists and shocked them into a brief silence.

▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by Dyslexic's DOG on Wednesday

Talking about literature on sexuality.
The good Christian book, "On Becoming a Woman" which every good Christian parent handed to their daughters to explain sexuality, instead of actually giving them a personal talk on the subject was full of nonsense and it even stated that Female Genital Mutilation was a good method to stop young girls masturbating.
It stated that if they had too large a clitoris, they may discover their genitals early and start masturbating, so the cure was to have it removed.
This was published in the 1950s.
I read the book when it was handed to my eldest sister, out of curiosity at the age of 12 and was totally horrified by their so called cure.
MAJOR OUCH!!
It opened my eyes to the stupidity of such practices and when Christians attack Muslims for the practice, I continually push their own FGM history back in their faces.
Such vile practices, demonstrate severe idiocy!

▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by k.h. ky on Wednesday
Tom, what prior generations actually knew and what they would admit to knowing were probably two very different things ;) From what I've read birth control consisted of the rhythm method,withdrawal, some atrocious abortions and animal intestines fashioned into condoms. And
 several more equally unreliable methods.
 Sex education,when taught correctly, has been a wonderful thing. And at the young ages of ten and twelve l answer my grand daughters questions truthfully, as I did their mother's questions,and emphasize birth control over abstinence.
 My remark about things staying the same was directed at the variety of sexual acts that can be performed. And that every generation has experimented with sex but the young seem to believe it's an invention of their own making.
▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by Michael Penn on Wednesday

Yes, and nobody could have thought of it except the young. This line of thinking is also why so many of them are into crime and drugs today because they have become smart enough to "get away with it." Absolutely nobody was that smart before they came along. My grandkids think prison is a way of life.
▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by tom sarbeck on Thursday


...the young seem to believe [the variety of sexual acts that can be performed is] an invention of their own making.
Kathy, they might rightly believe sex is an invention of their own making.

While I was in the Navy and ashore in Japan, I saw stores selling "hankies" made of a silk-like material with line drawings of couples having sex in 101 or more positions.
I of course examined the drawings closely enough to decide that many of these positions required the abilities of gymnasts.
I will be surprised if such hankies are available to young people here.
I will be surprised if books portraying even five positions, one of them in the back seats of automobiles, are available to them.
I will be surprised if many parents explain even one position.
Since movies even suggesting a position are rated NC17 (formerly X), I will be surprised if theater owners let those under 18 enter unless adults accompany them.
There are exceptions; a few parents make marriage manuals or other materials available to their kids..
And so, many young people rightly believe sex is an invention of their own making.

▶ Reply


‹ Previous



http://atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/there-s-very-little-traffic-here-did-we-all-grow-up-in-anti?id=2182797%3ATopic%3A2643279&page=2#comments















There's Very Little Traffic in AN's Secular Sexuality Forum. Did We ALL Grow Up in Anti-Sexual Times?
Posted by tom sarbeck on September 11, 2015 at 5:43am in Introductions
View Discussions
.



I grew up in anti-sexual times in the anti-sexual Catholic religion.
 My ignorance, and my wife's, harmed our marriage. Happily, for many people those times are gone.
 One topic I want to explore is the part erotica/pornography has in people's lives.
 Specifically, I'm in my eighties and my choicest fantasies relate to my having been born, without my consent, into an often tyrannical and occasionally violent home. My fantasies have for decades entertained me but I don't want the corresponding activity in any real relationship I make.
 Is anyone interested, or able, or daring?

Tags: fantasy, reality, sexuality



 Like 

.
Share   
  



Views: 317
▶ Reply to This
..


Replies to This Discussion
 Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on September 15, 2015 at 6:30am

For myself, I pretty much missed the sexual revolution of the 1960s - mostly an issue of timing, combined with the fact of my then-socially awkward self.  As far as the anti-homosexual environment of that time is concerned, yeah, that made the confrontation of my bisexuality just gangs of fun which took until the early 1990s to well and properly resolve (with the help of some DAMNED good friends on a LGBT BBS I joined in 1991).
As for right now, I think we're in WAY better shape than we were those 45 years ago, though there are still plenty of issues to deal with.  The whole trans-phobia problem comes to mind, but at least it's being recognized in places, and that's a start.
▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by tom sarbeck on September 15, 2015 at 1:17pm

Loren, in the 1960s, being a socially retarded ex-Catholic newly-hatched agnostic science geek, and then part of a childless-by-choice married couple, I missed the 1960s sexual and music revolutions. I did not even distantly see my social retardation as resulting from an occasionally violent childhood but I loved my computer software work so life was good.
After several years of a marriage done in by pre-1960s religion-caused sexual Puritanism, several months of spouse-swapping put my life on a path to becoming great in San Francisco, assisted by a few years at SFSI.
Despite the GOP's religious nut-cases, we are better off than 45 years ago and we have yet to deal with issues that only minorities saw and felt then.

▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by Daniel W on September 15, 2015 at 11:56am

I'm just glad to be at a stage in life where my testosterone doesn't impose itself on me at every turn now.  To be in a stable and loving relationship.  To not have to prove myself any more.

Our society is sexually obsessed.  As a society, we judge people for their youth and sexual attractiveness, rather than the content of their character, their intelligence, their talent, their hard work, their caring for others.

No harm in pornography.  No one has the right to judge.  If it makes someone happy and is not hurting anyone, it's no ones business but one's own.
▶ Reply

 Permalink Reply by tom sarbeck on September 15, 2015 at 1:42pm

Daniel, you have my happy agreement.
A testosterone-driven life can be exciting but it requires a lot of effort.
I'm now developing a "girlish" figure; one woman told me I have A-cup boobs.
Only A's? Is it Ma and Pa Nature's revenge?

▶ Reply


‹ Previous



                    
http://atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/there-s-very-little-traffic-here-did-we-all-grow-up-in-anti?id=2182797%3ATopic%3A2643279&page=3#comments