Monday, September 14, 2015
JW Survey recent articles and comments part 2
Skip to content
JWsurvey
Welcome
Cedars’ Blog
About JW Survey
Global Surveys
»
Videos
JW Broadcasting
Get Involved
Links
Contact Us
← An apology, and update on what’s in store for JWsurvey
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership →
Following the “Return to Jehovah” release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
avatar
Posted on September 4, 2015
Tony Morris releases a brochure aimed at bringing back inactive ones, who now appear to be under closer scrutiny
Tony Morris releases a brochure aimed at bringing back inactive ones, who now appear to be under closer scrutiny
A leaked Watchtower letter in Polish addressed to all elders in Poland has asked for details of Witnesses who have become inactive since September 2014.
The letter gives instructions for congregations to send in the “S-10″ form – an annual document that asks elders for basic figures regarding the number of active/inactive/reactivated publishers, the amount of unworked territory, and the number of those who are deaf or blind.
But the leaked letter, dated September 1, 2015, makes an additional request for the particulars of anyone who has ceased to be an active publisher over the last 12 months. It is so far unclear as to whether the same letter has been sent out in other countries or languages.
A translation of the pertinent sentence in the letter reads: “Given the special care we are giving to our inactive ones, we ask your secretary to prepare an additional letter about witnesses who became inactive in the 2015 service year. Please specify their names, surnames, age and a short summary about what you think was the cause for their current situation.”
It goes on to say: “We are confident that the information they choose to divulge will assist you in better caring for the needs of our brothers and sisters throughout the territory. (1 Peter 5:2)”
Especially if similar instructions are issued throughout the world, the letter would seem to indicate that Watchtower is starting to bring inactive ones, and especially their motives, under closer scrutiny.
The “Return to Jehovah” brochure released at this year’s convention series (which the letter seems to allude to) indicates that there is a clear disparity between Watchtower’s notion of why people become inactive, and the reality of the situation.
The brochure suggests that Witnesses become inactive due to “anxiety,” “hurt feelings,” or “guilt.” But the most popular responses for 1,614 inactive/faders who took part in last year’s 2014 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses (the full results of which are soon to be published) indicated reasons involving intellectual honesty.
(Click on the image below to enlarge)
inactive-ones-2014Though there will always be a percentage of inactive ones who remain indoctrinated and blame themselves for being too “spiritually weak,” the reality is that often inactive ones simply grow tired of lending their support to a religion they no longer believe in.
Watchtower must understand this at some level, despite their fanciful treatment of the subject in the “Return to Jehovah” brochure. It is, after all, their shunning policy that makes Jehovah’s Witnesses a “captive organization” (to borrow the words of Angus Stewart at the Australian Royal Commission) from which it is impossible to leave gracefully.
If you are fortunate enough to wake up from your Witness indoctrination and seek to maintain contact with believing family members, turning inactive or “fading” on the understanding that you will not speak out against the organization is the only option available to you.
Perhaps Watchtower is already observing the signs of a mass exodus now that 100 years of “God’s Kingdom” have rolled by with no sign of Armageddon, thus rendering the cherished 1914 teaching increasingly obsolete. Or perhaps this new letter to elders in Poland is simply a genuine attempt at reaching out to “spiritually weak” ones in the wake of the new brochure.
Either way one thing is certain: if Watchtower wants to keep abusing its members through shunning, the mishandling of child abuse, the deadly prohibition on blood and the stigmatization of higher learning, they had better get used to Witnesses finding their way to the exit one way or the other.
new-cedars-signature3
*Thanks to WifiBandit and the exJW Reddit community for bringing my attention to this letter.
To have your say in the 2015 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses, click here!
Related video…
Share this:
in
Share
.
.
Like this:
Bookmark the permalink.
← An apology, and update on what’s in store for JWsurvey
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership →
105 Responses to Following the “Return to Jehovah” release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
Newer Comments →
Andrea says:
September 4, 2015 at 2:20 am
Still haven’t read the brochure but I received it from a concerned parent. When I heard about the brochure from them by phone, it sent shivers down my spine. I just felt like we’d be having “the conversation”, which I have been avoiding.
Thankfully it just got left at my house and I’ll get around to reading its propaganda when I’ve the stomach for it.
I wish they’d leave us alone, we left for a reason, and have no intention of every going back to that prison…
Reply
John Baptist says:
September 5, 2015 at 7:59 am
I have been out 30 plus years now and its the same old same old when you read anything they publish. I suggest reading Combating Cult mind control. https://freedomofmind.com/Media/bookCombatting.php
This is a excellent read weather your a past present or soon to be member of this destructive cult.
I hear the words of both Ray Franz’s books ringing in my ears as I see the “Truth” of his words unfold in this society’s actions more and more.
I am happy for all who have broken free from the chains of this Cult.
Reply
EverydayExplorer says:
September 5, 2015 at 1:12 pm
I support John Baptist’s comment.
Andrea, you have every right not to read that brochure.
Respect to you.
Reply
JJ says:
September 4, 2015 at 2:48 am
My father told me that when they released this brochure, or when they made the comment at the Regional Convention that they would like all of these inactive ones to come back, he thought to himself, “They are never coming back!”
I’m sure there are many others sitting through these meetings thinking to themselves that it is a ‘pipe dream’ to ever get the old JWs back! We hate it! What would go back to?!? You can’t make yourself believe this crap again and why would you want to???
I’m just so happy that my family has come back to me and that my wife has really softened her stance that was so pro-JW! The last thing I need is to get involved in that cult that tried to split up my family! I am slowly trying to pry them away, gently but persistently.
Reply
Malachi says:
September 4, 2015 at 3:01 am
I don’t know. It seems a bit speculative but if you think back on what has happened over the last year it would seem that there is a good possibility that they have seen a big uptick in the number of people going inactive. If that is the case it will be interesting to see how it is handled given the heavy-handed way that they have historically dealt with problems. I guess they will decide what to do depending on the number they get back, if it is big they might consider releasing some new light which would be a laughable response, if it is small they try to squash the dissent. It’s a no win situation for them either way.
Reply
Malachi says:
September 4, 2015 at 3:30 am
It would be interesting to know if this letter was unique to Poland, in which case it might be relevant to something that happened there or if it was something that was sent out universally. This past year has been a publicity nightmare for the WTS. If you happen to come across that please let us know. Thanks for your good work Lloyd!
Reply
Little Polish Atheist says:
September 4, 2015 at 7:01 am
Poland had 1,756 congregations in 2000. The number dropped to 1,350 in 2014. This means 406 congregations dissolved in 15 years. Average every year 27 congregations less and less. Question for JWs: How is Isaiah 2:3 being fulfilled in Poland for last 15 years?
Reply
Sheree Stokell says:
September 5, 2015 at 3:31 pm
I think the same is happening in Japan. I know that here in Australia the jw growth hasn’t even kept up with our population growth the whole time I’ve been in and out of jws, which is 20 years now. The census data for my city of 500 thousand people shows that in 5 years, there was an increase of only 96 jws. Considering heaps are moving to my city and the jw kids are getting baptised, that means more are leaving than joining, in my city
Reply
Idontknowhatodo says:
September 4, 2015 at 3:20 am
They are trying to cover all exits and draw the prison bonds even tighter….why do they want people who dont believe and who dont financially contribute to stay in this organization?… why do they want to make our existence even more miserable by containing us in a prison of fear when they must know we hate them?…. I cannot understand thier mentality….Geoffrey Jackson said plainly at the ARC…’no we dont believe we are the only channel God is using’…. so why dont they just leave us non believers alone.
Reply
Meredith J says:
September 4, 2015 at 2:25 pm
Because the GB are so brainwashed by their own self importance that they could not possibly conceive that the exodus is because people hate the Watchtower so much. Average brainwashed Witnesses just cannot conceive that kind of thinking either. They think what they have is so good, why would anyone want to throw it away unless they were just spiritually weak? If only they knew the real truth. I have found that most Witnesses don’t want to know the real reasons. I’m saying this from my own memory of being in that hypnotic state. They shirk to hear anything ‘negative’.
When we left we ran for our lives like we were climbing over the Berlin Wall. Why would we want to climb back over the top again and return to that pack of wild dogs?
Reply
ruthlee says:
September 4, 2015 at 3:39 am
hi folks ive read the wt and awake for 35 years cover to cover since my baptism i decided a couple of months ago to just read the bible but this brochure return blah blah was the last thing i read and it has become my natural conclusion to a long drawn out loveless affair now im just a plain ol Bible reader and so happy. why oh why would they want us back, we are not and have never been loved i dont even feel im in the wilderness just waiting for my family to carry out their exit plan .how long if ever that will be i do not know but i tell you one thing all my doubts and dissappointments and failed hopes, the one thing i am sure of is this, the org do not have the truth. i am fraudulent at this moment in time, but i have divorced this organization in my head and heart i just need a little time to sign the get out clause i dont even find these people attractive anymore its is a facade so brochure or not how can a liberated soul go back to mental chains and false doctrine i would rather be one tiny voice in the wilderness saying all this is wrong and a lie than and blow out like a candle than spend eternity in a void that is supposed to be paradise and eternal with these melancholy holy terrors. This site is snowballing now as we all awaken isnt it great so thanks but no thanks my head and heart are not with the JWs anymore ruth lee
Reply
Melody Rhodes says:
September 4, 2015 at 4:03 am
It may be dawning on them that their methods of control are no longer working. The playing field has changed and the Internet is a far bigger force than the Governing Body. Tactics that worked in the past to scare and silence people are no longer as effective.
It will be interesting to see what they come up with to protect their bottom line. They could mainstream, which they seem to be moving towards. Who knows? One day it might dawn on them that around the world there are many churches that aren’t as controlling and that manage to their retain their members.
When you have flawed theology, the only way you can perpetrate it is to keep your members ignorant and psychologically separated from the world, and try to prevent them from accessing outside sources of information. The World Wide Web is closing that gap.
Reply
Garrett says:
September 4, 2015 at 4:33 am
I personally find it creepy they want our names. If you are just looking for stats and reasons people left you don’t need names anymore than Lloyd would need names of individuals for his survey. I wonder if a game called “Witch Hunt” is starting.
Reply
Idontknowhatodo says:
September 4, 2015 at 4:45 am
I think your right…they love the power over peoples lives…and the rule through fear…the likeness between the Nazis and them is frightening…now they are keeping records of names…Im not sure if they could do it here In GB.data protection etc…does anyone know?
Reply
JBob says:
September 4, 2015 at 8:10 am
I think Garrett is hitting on a great point; to the administrative types, the curse of no-growth means J* is “frowning on them” and its time to purge the unrighteousness from their midst, again. The dramatic fall in growth after the Great Disappointment of 1975 resulted in the “Witch Hunt of the 80’s” which cast out Ray Franz and hordes of other adherents to Watchtower who had discovered the joys of reading God’s Word daily.
1 Kings 18:21 – a long abused stereotype. How long will you hesitate between two opinions? If the LORD is God, follow Him; but if Baal, follow him, blah, blah, blah. The Baal vs. the LORD prototype, etc will be used to bring down fire from heaven, as it were.
Even the administrative types don’t realize where they get this compulsion to make themselves separate and “the only truth” which stems from a long series of trailblazers in adventist beliefs. “Get out of her my people” a rallying cry used by adventist of 7th and First varieties since Charles Fitch’s 1843 sermon on Babylon. And, picked up on by Rutherford to instigate growth during World War II confrontational Bible Student court cases over the flag, blood use, vaccinations and other issues.
This period was where Witnesses behaved like the folks following David Koresh or Warren Jeffs–rather die than compromise, and every government encroachment was a sign of the end-time. Anyone still think this “charming” bunch isn’t a controlling and all-consuming? Some of this behavior is echoed in the continual bizarre statements from “Tight-pants” because some Witnesses are doggedly determined to return to this strong conservative and confrontational mode of believing.
Reply
peggy says:
September 4, 2015 at 8:16 am
This asking for names is very suspicious. Several years ago I moved to a new cong. The secretary asked to see my drivers licence. I asked why he needed to see it. Reply, for our records. My word was not good enough for identification. They keep records, and I often thought it was illegal.
The idea of a witch hunt sounds about right. They will probably be arriving to my home soon. Asking why I faded away.
Reply
al etheredge says:
September 4, 2015 at 10:20 am
Not to worry. As former witnesses, we’ve seen many methods to avoid a doorstep conversation.
Reply
RobertPerez says:
September 4, 2015 at 11:01 am
Please record it, I assure you they’ll be recording you.
Reply
kenny says:
September 4, 2015 at 1:22 pm
Well said. Especially the last paragraph.
Reply
Iown Mylife says:
September 4, 2015 at 5:11 am
The witchhunt is not new. The elders constantly demand that any knowledge of “serious” wrongdoing be reported. They want to gather info on everyone and turn the members into spies, to feed their FBI-style databases, I have no doubt. This additional reporting will probably assist them in purging pawns whose hypnosis is wearing off.
Reply
pearlsB4swine says:
September 4, 2015 at 5:20 am
They have never cared two hoots for the inactive so why now?
I take nothing they say on face value anymore. Geoffrey Jackson stated at his appearance at the Australian Royal Commission that they “don’t run a spy network…” to check up on people. So why the need for a list of names and details on inactive ones?
Reply
Sarah Shetler says:
September 4, 2015 at 5:25 am
They want names and the suspected reasons why these ones are inactive. Yes, sounds like a witch hunt. They are very aware of apostates and are looking for those ones among the congregation. Either they will leave them alone (unlikely) or they will do a full-on search for them to determine who they can nail for apostasy (if that is what they suspect). It will be interesting to see where this will go, and if it will be a worldwide effort. Thanks for the heads-up, as always, Lloyd!
Reply
peggy says:
September 4, 2015 at 8:22 am
I agree with you Sarah, as I suspect they will try to scare everyone into staying. They may pick out some inactive ones and judge them apostates. Instruct everyone to avoid them and never speak to them again. This really could back fire. Some JW’s are not going to just stop talking to faded family members because their status with the borg has changed.
Reply
Shane green says:
September 4, 2015 at 5:45 am
Great article…..they must realise while they themselves are trolling the apostate websites just how many are ‘getting away’ with fading….I feel certain it’s a clamp down. The thumb screws are going on
Reply
Rowland Nelken says:
September 4, 2015 at 5:58 am
Another very encouraging sign of desperation. None of the bosses’ remedies will work. If you dunk them young, they will leave soon enough. JWs already are record breakers in the leaving the parental religion stakes.
Warnings about avoiding apostate websites clearly do not work. There are even active and believing JWs who contribute to this site.
Shunning can be avoided via fading, so here, in this Polish, and maybe global brochure, is a doomed attempt to staunch that flow.
This can only be good news.
Reply
John Baptist says:
September 6, 2015 at 5:11 am
They probably came up with some new light in their diluted minds and said hey let’s do a test case in Poland. Lol. They are absolutely completely delusional in every sense of the word.
Reply
MimiLove says:
September 4, 2015 at 6:25 am
I will probably be in the back room soon. After listening to Lloyd’s 10 tips I already broke a few of them and it is costing me. I spoke to my closest friend about the child abuse issue and she repeated Lett’s words “apostate lies”. My family wouldn’t listen to the any of the hearing saying worldly people are attaching Jehovah’s people. So now my friend hardly speaks to me and my family is on edge. I have been inactive for 6 months now and the elders have been attentive….so far only small talk but I can feel the anxiety. I’m sure this letter if legal in the US will surface soon and I’m also sure that the motive behind it isn’t love. The inactive ones also kept their money in their pockets and they desperately need our donations. So now thanks to Lloyd’s ten tips and graphical survey I am preparing mentally what my comments will be when I receive my “shepherding visit”
Reply
RobertPerez says:
September 4, 2015 at 11:12 am
Good on you, remember to record your shepherding visit. Every amicable question will be designed for you to drop your guard and relax. Do not lie to them, but follow the example of the gb and omit anything that is non of their business. Change the subject as often as possible. Set an alarm on your phone to go off after a fixed time, thank them for their consern (interrogation) and say your good byes. Remember the collective experiences on here, it is definitely a witch hunt, not a shepherding visit. Anything and everything you say will be misconstrued and used against you under prayer by these false shepherds.
Reply
Meredith J says:
September 4, 2015 at 3:08 pm
But when you see the brainwashing, doesn’t that make you realise how fortunate you are that you woke up? If they come by MimiLove, you can either not answer the door. This is a very common response from non Witnesses. Or just tell them you don’t want to talk to them right now or you can go into the full reason for leaving but that could land you in some trouble.
It’s up to you but I just act like the way I used to see people act when they weren’t interested. Believe me, Witnesses don’t want to hang around inactive people for too long. Germs might be catching. I just avoid them when they come knocking and make it clear if I talk to them that I am not interested in anything they have to say. They know full well who I am.
If it was an elder trying to round me up then I guess I would just stand my ground and tell him the bitter truth. That has not happened yet in all the years I have been out but granted there may be a first time.
Reply
sirius says:
September 4, 2015 at 7:02 am
@Lloyd
Thank you for the research data. I look forward to plugin-in some other values from the survey*. It all this brings fond memories of my days(being sarcastic) in manufacturing & some market research days applying statistical thinking while removing emotional knee-jerk reactions. BTW, there are predictive models that stretch into the foreseeable future, like weather predictions. Unfortunately, there are still way too many unknowns (versus knowns) that cannot be incorporated into the models yet.
* https://www.checkmarket.com/market-research-resources/sample-size-calculator/
I do agree with the other posters that personal information of the Respondents has no bearing on the random data collection, unless its the weak argument of establishing verification.
IMHO
dogstar
Reply
Renae says:
September 4, 2015 at 7:38 am
The problem with the elders filling out a questionaire about why someone has left is they will most likely just repeat the sentiments of Watchtower, and say it’s because they want the world, or don’t want to humble themselves enough to be obedient. I took the slow and respectful road out so as not to lose my daughter. I’m still shunned, and despite my consistent explanation that I cannot come back until I get answers to legitimate questions, my daughter believes that I’ve fallen under the control of the devil. She came to this conclusion for no other reason than I don’t believe as she does. I think my experience is unfortunately a common one. If Watchtower really wants to know, why don’t they go to the ones who have left and ask? We’d be happy to tell them. :)
Reply
RobertPerez says:
September 4, 2015 at 11:15 am
Crisis of Consience- They know very well why you left.
Reply
Shunned for Life says:
September 4, 2015 at 7:40 am
When I was fading, someone told me that the elders would pay a visit and ask if I still believed the Organization was spirit-directed. I was warned that if I answered in the negative, I could face disfellowshipping. I was skeptical.
Sure enough, during their visit, they asked me that very question. I answered (in all honesty) that I believed the Organization was spirit-directed (I didn’t reveal that I thought by a demonic spirit). Their faces relaxed and they smiled, and all was well, for the time being.
I tried to discreetly fade but still was shunned by my family, still in. No leaving this organization without being punished. So much for their claim to “champion” religious freedom.
Reply
KateWild says:
September 4, 2015 at 7:43 am
Thanks Cedars for this article, I would like to advocate for the JWs stuck in WT who truly care. I feel there are many Elders and othe JWs who want their loved ones to survive Armageddon. My loved ones have remained in touch with me now and again to encourage me to return in spite of the fact I am Df’d.
These individuals truly love me and care about me and they are unconditional friends as they still contact me against WT rules.
Sadly these JWs are emotionally blackmailing us without realising it. So this brochure is doing emotional harm to those that have woken up and those that care about their loved ones who have left.
The GB are not beyond reproach in producing this brochure. They are being manipulative by controlling JWs emotions and using their vulnerabilities to increase their membership.
I find this destructive, dangerous and abusive.
Kate (Sam)
Reply
sirius says:
September 4, 2015 at 7:48 am
Of course the GB/WT not to be outdone, the Catholics have had an outreach program to bring back their own for sometime. From catholicscomehome.org
Welcome Home
Faith should touch every corner of our lives. We know it can be intimidating to walk through those doors, but we’ve been expecting you. Welcome home.
Interesting the similarities on both sites … and copycat?
IMHO
dogstar
Reply
JBob says:
September 4, 2015 at 8:22 am
Not just JW’s and Catholics, all corners of the Christian empire are grasping at desperate measures to attract former believers or turned-off once-believers; including berating themselves for over-reaching and attempting to make their core beliefs the law for non-Christians or judging those who never professed Christian beliefs. And, with migration of more Islam and other world religions into the once Christian-dominated civilizations, just a general panic.
Reply
sirius says:
September 4, 2015 at 9:19 am
>>>And, with migration of more Islam and other world religions into the once Christian-dominated civilizations, just a general panic
An attractant to islam is that former sins are whipped clean, a reset! Prisons are a good source for converts to islam. Also, the hard pressed belief by islamist(believers) that it’s the only “true religion” and they are willing to enforce it! (fatwas on the apostate – to – honor killings such as adultery). Prayer requirements of 5x aday in the direction of the Kaaba plus non assimilation (sharia laws) in non-islamic society. Jesus or as muslims like to push Issa per their koran is only a mere prophet and their allah has no partners, meaning God has no SON or angel!
To the lost or ignorant this looks like a higher/harder bar above all others faiths!
IMHO
dogstar
Reply
RobertPerez says:
September 4, 2015 at 11:47 am
Irrelevant to site and topic
Reply
John Baptist says:
September 6, 2015 at 5:23 am
He’s got nothing better to do. He needs some deprograming after his escape. He will get it in time.
jacksrabbit says:
September 4, 2015 at 8:18 am
After watching Geoffrey Jackson’s testimony in Australia, it dawned on me that I was being counted among the ’20 million associated’ with the WTBS that he referred. My wife and I promptly sent letters of disassociation. We left many years prior, but I never saw the need to make it formal, even though we have no family involved.
They are basically bragging about 20 mil who have left the org.! I’d like to see that number drop dramatically.
Reply
Damon says:
September 5, 2015 at 2:19 am
I believe he is also alluding to people who they have met on the doors. Who go to the memorial but who don’t go to meetings and may have started studying. Someone who is not committed but who might be interested.
Reply
John Baptist says:
September 6, 2015 at 5:26 am
Corporations fluff numbers all the time. Angus Stewart shut them down on their fluffing with his sharp eye for sure.
Reply
Searcher says:
September 4, 2015 at 9:16 am
I feel for all of you responding here. I am sad that all of you have to bear the brunt of these evil and now lying (i.e. Mr. Potato Head Jackson’s testimony) control freaks. They ARE on a witch hunt now. Why would the leaders ask for names instead of data from the elders of each congregation. Why would they publish such a ‘loving’ publication to bring all the faders back to sheep-like fold. Big data is a two-way street. The internet and education is the WTS biggest enemy, but they can employ big data to twist the screws on you too.
My best advice is to BE PREPARED! Be prepared for family and friends shunning, back-stabbing, the little-old-lady elder wives spreading rumors, tattle-tails, etc., etc., etc…. It will HURT and bad!!! We have a saying in America, “Freedom isn’t free!” You may have to make a tough choice for your own conscience and dignity. Be brave people! My love and thoughts are with you all.
Reply
RobertPerez says:
September 4, 2015 at 11:22 am
At least in my neck of the woods many, many rank and file faithful watchtower pushers are beginning to see shunning for what it is. The harder watchtower pushes this practice the less members can stomach it.
Reply
anonymous says:
September 4, 2015 at 9:22 am
It is interesting that the letter didn’t simply tell the elders to go and ask those people who faded, why they faded. It has to be because they don’t want those secretaries to go and ask because those people will tell those elders the real truth behind the truth and then those elder’s eyes might be opened too. So, it is obvious that “faders” are to be shunned and not helped back into the “fold” unlike the lost sheep Jesus said they were supposed to go after.
It is so cowardly of the Society to have the secretaries “guess” why those people stopped attending meetings. If the elders were doing the job that the Society says they are supposed to be doing, they’d be out there looking for that one lost sheep out of the one hundred that got lost.
If they weren’t trying to find that lost sheep and and trying to bring them back into the “fold” then they weren’t doing their job. If those elders did go to those lost “sheep” and the fader told them how they really feel about the “truth” about the “truth” and it wasn’t pretty, then the elders are in the position of telling the Society the real reason why that person faded and it could be that then the Society will tell the elders that those people have turned apostate and they should be giving talks “marking” those people who have faded.
My husband said that he thinks they may have done that about me now but since he misses so many meetings, he isn’t sure about it. My husband said though that if those elders are following orders correctly, that “marking” just means that you wouldn’t associate with them socially but I definitely get the feeling that I am being shunned for fading. But then when the elders did show up here to talk to me, they asked me if I thought that Jehovah was directing the Organization and I said no. I even told them that I thought that the Governing Body should be put in prison. So, even though they haven’t disfellowshipped me and I haven’t disassociated myself, they have their ways of getting me shunned anyway.
Reply
RobertPerez says:
September 4, 2015 at 11:25 am
The overseer will have gathered all ms and elders and instructed them and their families to keep clear of you. They in turn will have spread the word on your pariah status, per design.
Reply
Searcher says:
September 4, 2015 at 9:25 am
Has anyone noticed just how Big Brother-like this is? How absolutely suspicious and scheming that Tight-Pants Tony looks when holding the brochure in the picture above? Taking names? This is very similar to the “Ministry Of Love” looking to find your misdirected allegiances. George Orwell described this type of society to a tee. If these goons are going to run ‘Paradise Earth’ from above, then I don’t want to be a part of that ‘Paradise’.
This is very disturbing to me.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 4, 2015 at 9:47 am
@Searcher . I Agree TOTALLY with your comments that this REALLY Is SO CREEPY & ORWELLIAN in its Nature!! I studied Animal Farm & 1984 by George Orwell for English Literature at School before I became a JEHOVAHs Witness as an Adult. The Similarities are FRIGHTENING!!
When an ORGANISATION tells Families to SHUN Each Other because one Might have GENUINE QUESTIONS about say the ‘ Generation’ or 1914 or F&D Slave then IT IS A CULT because at 1 John 4v1,2 it says test every ‘ INSPIRED STATEMENT ‘ & Even more so if it isn’t inspired!!
So Why are the 7 MEN of the GB SCARED of QUESTIONS????
I TRUST JESUS Not 7 Men in Brooklyn who CHOP & CHANGE INTERPRETATIONS every Few Years !!!!
Reply
Searcher says:
September 4, 2015 at 1:05 pm
Not to mention actually changing, redefining obscure words (such as ‘pornea’), or deleting the scriptures as they need to fit their crazy-headed philosophies and prophetic statements.
Reply
rob says:
September 4, 2015 at 9:50 am
In my opinion asking the elders to provide the reason for the individual becoming inactive is extremely subjective and could be or will be self serving for the organization. I would not for one second believe that they would ever put the real reason why many leave – which is that the individual has found out that this religion is not directed by God and has many many flaws.
Instead, they will probably say that the individual left because they were spiritually weak or would not take direction or were depressed or some other reason that puts the entire blame on the individual.
The society will look at the results and foolishly believe that they are doing nothing wrong and will tell the rank and file that based upon our surveys most people who leave, are not truly spiritual people and need help.
I left the witness religion. I am a spiritual person. I like reading the Bible. Problem is that the witness religion does not want to acknowledge the real reasons why people leave. They want to continue to live in a utopian world of make believe and solid control.
Reply
Searcher says:
September 4, 2015 at 1:28 pm
Unfortunately, deluded people believe what they want to believe instead of facing he facts. The facts are people are no longer buying their scam. The leadership is alarmed and angry. They want to root out the disease that is infecting their empire.
Reply
John Baptist says:
September 6, 2015 at 5:54 am
When my Dad passed away(a faded elder) 6 years ago his request before he died was no service and cremation. Well he got the latter honored but my brother in law talked my mom into a manuscripted funeral talk which due to her extreme emotional and mental condition at the time and conceded to a talk. Well what ensued was unbelievable! These programed suit and tie folks showed up on behalf of my brother a then Elder who didn’t even talk to both my parents before his death to put on the funeral show for their own recruitment opportunities.
I being my fathers namesake son as well as my son the III were completely blind sighted by it all. During the talk my brother in law stated the reason my father faded was because he was depressed. WTF are you kidding me! Just 2 months prior my Dad was telling me just how happy he was that he was without that destructive religion. Well I can tell you after he was done giving his talk my son imediately went up there and spoke about his grandpa and destroyed that theory and other statements in a heartbeat. It just so happens my son has a Masters Degree and is a Psychologist. That audience of programed believers had no clue what hit them. His first words out of my sons mouth was after introducing himself was “My Grandfather was by no means DEPRESSED” what was said after that was priceless!!
Reply
Ted says:
September 4, 2015 at 11:42 am
JW.org is a marketing company, the product is religion,
the request for personal details is purely, Market Research
to determine why the brand is losing its appeal.
Which age groups have been mostly turned off and why,
what change of direction they need to make and who to
target.
Concern and care for inactive brothers is “Sounding Brass
and Tinkling Cymbals”. Like all commercial enterprises
they’ll do what they need to do to survive, regardless of the
effect on people. This was evidenced in the closure of
19 branches when staff were no longer required, and were
sent on their way with instructions to go pioneer.
Brothers in Poland and elsewhere are waking up and seeing
the true face of JW.org.
Reply
Sofia Medrano says:
September 5, 2015 at 7:13 pm
Exactly.
Reply
RobertPerez says:
September 4, 2015 at 11:53 am
At the end of the day it all comes down to non pereformance within the company. What are we expecting if claiming to be members, but not meeting any quotas on moving the product. Your love for God, his son or his word are all irrelevant. Start moving merchandise, get out into service more often whether your really qualified to teach or not and blessings in promotions and privileges will come down on you, per the Shepperding the flock (business manual) book.
Reply
Rose Graziano says:
September 4, 2015 at 12:24 pm
This is very bad news because I have not reported field service time for two months now. I guess I have to start lying to remain under the radar. I hate to lie but now I have no choice. I guess I am going to have to consider this “spiritual warfare”. If the organization can lie to protect itself then I guess I am forced to protect myself from the damage they can do to me and my family if they change their policy on inactive faders.
Reply
RobertPerez says:
September 4, 2015 at 1:12 pm
Do like the pioneers do, report, say five hours and just make it up next month. It’s the old pioneer method.
Reply
Damon says:
September 5, 2015 at 2:36 am
For the last six months I liked on my report. I showed up on Sunday for 30 mins of service then counted two hours. It keeps them off your back whilst you mentally prepare.
Reply
John Baptist says:
September 6, 2015 at 6:05 am
Hey you only need 15 minutes to qualify a month now vs 1 hour. Just talk about the bible to someone for 15 minutes or break it up in 5 min. Increments. It still qualify’s for preaching. Just talk about the bible alone and nothing else and presto your still counted. Lol After all your playing by their rules anyway.
Reply
AF says:
September 4, 2015 at 12:41 pm
Matthew 19:29 says, “And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.”
I don’t know if you all are Christians or not, but if you are, I believe the above scripture explains what needs to be done for the sake of Christ/to inherit eternal life. It’s hard to leave loved ones behind (as you all are well aware), however, this is what needs to be done. The most powerful tool we have is “prayer.” Let’s pray that the Holy Spirit will direct our loved ones from this demonic cult and its tactics. Trust God to do it. I just needed to share this with you. I have fam members who are in this WATCHTOWER prison.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 4, 2015 at 2:41 pm
@AF . As always please READ the CONTEXT. Math. 19v27-29 . Peter said to Christ ‘ we have left all things to follow you’ & then Jesus said in v.29 anyone who leaves fathers & mothers will receive 100 fold in the Recreation in heaven.
Now In CONTEXT Peter did not Literally CUT OFF FAMILY to follow Christ ,He had a mother in law so he was Married . He just Put Christ first in his life ,but PETER DID NOT CUT OFF FAMILY RELATIONSHIPs or STOP TALKING to them or SHUN THEM !!!
The 7 Men of the Governing Body Mis -Apply & Lift one Scripture & TWIST IT . The GB ARE UNKIND & CRUEL in Encouraging SHUNNING of Family!!!
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 4, 2015 at 2:41 pm
@AF . As always please READ the CONTEXT. Math. 19v27-29 . Peter said to Christ ‘ we have left all things to follow you’ & then Jesus said in v.29 anyone who leaves fathers & mothers will receive 100 fold in the Recreation in heaven.
Now In CONTEXT Peter did not Literally CUT OFF FAMILY to follow Christ ,He had a mother in law so he was Married . He just Put Christ first in his life ,but PETER DID NOT CUT OFF FAMILY RELATIONSHIPs or STOP TALKING to them or SHUN THEM !!!
The 7 Men of the Governing Body Mis -Apply & Lift one Scripture & TWIST IT . The GB ARE UNKIND & CRUEL in Encouraging SHUNNING of Family!!!
Reply
Meredith J says:
September 4, 2015 at 9:45 pm
Jesus does not forsake his words. I can attest to that from my own personal experience which I won’t go into just now but the words in Matthew 19 I have found to be absolutely true. Jesus is the one to listen to right now and his words are so precious and appealing to the Christian ear. As our world changes, his words don’t. How dare the Watchtower have called us JW’s when we were trying to be Christians?
Reply
RobertPerez says:
September 4, 2015 at 1:24 pm
Lloyd- Is there anyway that we can find out what the specific jobs of the GB children are and wether we’re looking at major uncomming nepotism within the GB in the near future? Would really love to know how many of them live off of the world wide contribution. Locally we just had a completely autistic and incoherent young man named ms( his dads one of the elders). Nothing against people with disabilities, but in 40 years I’ve never seen the like. Meanwhile spiritually strong youths are placed on questionable list for attending university. I keep my mouth shut and remember that technically I did promise God I’d be his witness to all these things.
Reply
ruthlee says:
September 4, 2015 at 3:42 pm
hi i want to reply to robert perez i agree with your last point about promising God that you would be his witness to all these things i think that is exactly what we are doing on this site all of us have something to say and want the truth out this is testimony to what is going on and how we are being affected. this rotten org has the audacity to say we are not God fearing or love scripture or even Christian. yes i know some choose not to follow anymore thats ok but some of us have shed many tears and its not lightly that we voice our thoughts but when those floodgates open there is no stopping us. so too right i am proud to say i will be a witness to God about all the rot and nastiness ive seen in my life and all the more so as we gain confidence and vigor., as for fading if they do go after these ones, well usually faders are gentle souls who dont need a beating they need nurture and friendship and love if the ones are shunned then this org is not only corrupt over money and sexual sin but out and out wicked who would return to such a lurking place ….. fill in gap. oops sorry the rant has gone on my pants must be to tight! ruthlee
Reply
John Baptist says:
September 6, 2015 at 6:18 am
I work with Autistic adults everyday and while everyone is different and most are of high intelligence beyond our realm that situation of someone becoming a MS may not play out so well for the individual as well to those he may be ministering. Believe me I clearly know what I am talking about in this regard. If anything I feel sorry for this individual as his father for his own reasons may have pushed him into it. And those reasons MAY be entirely self serving.
Reply
Searcher says:
September 4, 2015 at 1:35 pm
I would love to say to the WTS leadership and GB: You cannot fight with lies and threats anymore! People are finding out your lies and deceptions now. The internet and education are your worst enemy! When what you call “Truth” is found to be a pack of lies and false prophecy, when your ugly history is truly reviewed, then it’s very hard to reclaim any real credibility to a thinking person. Good luck trying to stuff that internet genie back in the bottle.
Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin!!! Too late, too late!!!
Reply
John Chapman says:
September 4, 2015 at 2:44 pm
[silly off-topic conspiracy theorist comment removed]
John Chapman – any more such comments and you will be blocked. Final warning.
Reply
Garrett says:
September 4, 2015 at 6:26 pm
Damn it Chapman! I warned you!
Popcorn?
Peanuts ?
Beer here…!
Cold beer!
(Doesn’t it some how seem fitting that we should have a 7th inning stretch here? I always wanted to wear candy stripes and sell consessions at the Minnesota Twins Game)
Ok… It’s the top of the 8th…
Play Ball!
Reply
Kat says:
September 4, 2015 at 10:54 pm
I think they realise that those inactive are mostly faders and just want to keep their family ties going by not being DF for not believing, I think they are in fear of the inactive faders and what they know, and my bad feeling about this is they may want to ask question such as ” do you still believe this is Gods org and that the FDS are God channel”
Any no would be put down as DA or DF and that breaks the family ties, no talking to them anymore.
I just don’t trust this, as I think so many are becoming inactive faders and the GB deep down know its not a guilt but they have lost all faith in the org and the GB, they just may want to get rid of them.
I don’t trust this a being a loving thing at all, though the R/F will see it as the GB being loving in trying to bring back the lost sheep.
Reply
al etheredge says:
September 5, 2015 at 8:32 pm
You may be right to be apprehensive. The organization is built on control of information, and active members are allowed to speak with inactive ones. The GB may well want to conduct another purge like the early 1980s. Formally disfellowshipping inactive members would at least serve to limit communication with active witnesses.
Reply
Reader says:
September 6, 2015 at 3:41 pm
……., and my bad feeling about this is they may want to ask question such as ” do you still believe this is Gods org and that the FDS are God channel”
Regardless of your personal view why answer? Consider Matthew 24 v 23,25 & 26 if you act in accord with it, you will not answer that question or endorse that thought either way.
Its often on the same page as FDS v45. So many dont’ check context nowadays!
Reply
Kat says:
September 4, 2015 at 11:03 pm
PS, Poland may have more problem than other countries, however the brochure is for all congregations, so elders will be encouraged to seek out all inactive/or faders, as brought out in the ARC forget which elder may have been O’Brian that said we they can just fade that wont break the family ties, something to that effect, when questioned.
They would hate faders I am sure they would rather get rid of them completely as they are not contributing, and the GB cannot be 100% sure why and realise that the internet has played a huge part in many at the very least becoming doubtful.
They don’t want the faders or inactive ones giving any information to family relatives that could start doubts and research.
Reply
John Baptist says:
September 6, 2015 at 6:25 am
Bravo it’s the exact reason why any Cult would as they mandate no outside reading or ideas. Cult 101
Reply
eyes opened says:
September 5, 2015 at 7:48 am
Friends,
Many of you have commented on visits from elders so for any sisters out there if the elders wish to speak to you, it should only be with your husband present if you have one. (And if you want it that way) It doesn’t matter if he is a witness or not. The elders should not be allowed to usurp the headship of your husband and thus they would be disregarding a scriptural arrangement. They won’t like it but that’s how it is. You don’t need to feel intimidated or let yourself be bullied. I hope this helps avoid another form of abuse.
Best Regards
Reply
just asking says:
September 5, 2015 at 8:04 am
Well I know that our good organization is not really honest and actually never follows its own publications (bible teach says on the subject of bible that “its writers were honest even to write about their mistakes) say for example when they change doctrine why do they shift the blame to the spirit to have given then some out of date light only to later give them new truth (which actually woke me). But why does it still want to prison everyone? what do they stand to gain or benefit?
Reply
Barb Moor says:
September 5, 2015 at 4:51 pm
“short summary about what you think was the cause for their current situation.”
As if they’d know! Likely they don’t know their flocks at all, and assume inactivity is based on trivial matters (“Oh, they didn’t like how they weren’t always called on at the WT study”) when the real issues are never discerned because they never gave a damn in the first place. I expect their responses to the survey to range from “they didn’t like the instructions on modest clothing” to “they were independent minded” or “materialistic” or “too close to the world”. Because these men don’t know the reality.
“I don’t attend because the known pedophile likes to sit behind me and breathe down my neck”, or “my WT conductor ripped me off in a business arrangement and told me I’d never be able to prove it”, or “I have issues with doctrine and the lies we are told”. Or ultimately, “I feel I’ve wasted my life with this cult and it’s mind-control and attention hungry overseers”.
No one has ever asked why I became inactive, but the rumors have been delightedly random and of course, wrong.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 5, 2015 at 7:44 pm
@Barb moor . I REALLY LIKE ALL YOUR POINTS you make about the REAL REASONS WHY People start to fade ! EXCELLENT REASONINGS!!
Reply
Thinking of leaving says:
September 5, 2015 at 6:07 pm
As much as I would like to see this terrible organisation dissapear I do think this is a step in the right direction. I always found it puzzling how an organisation would spend billions of dollars and countless man hours seeking a new member and yet do virtually nothing to stop (or find out why) members were walking out the back door. Not that I am complaining but from my own situation I was in the org for just under 4 decades and although I never openly gave my reasons for leaving, I never had one follow up call from the elders, and only 3 members from the cong could be bothered to come around and see how I was (mind you they were on FS at the time so go figure). Thankfully my case is not an isolated one.
If little polish atheist figures are correct the org in Poland has been loosing just over 1 congregation every 14 days for the last 15 years so it’s no wonder they are trying to figure out what is going on, and it would be interesting to see if those been disfellowship was in line with the congregations been dissolved. I’m guessing that they wouldn’t which would suggest that people are just opting to say nothing and fade. I have generally found as a good gauge of how happy the members of Wt are is to take a look at the activity on apostate sights. I was stunned the other day when listening to a pod cast from the man from JwFacts when he said he got a million unique visits to his web site a year. So you could say that out of every 8 publishers, 1 publisher could of just visited JWFacts alone.
I’m also just wondering when they do get the reports back of inactive ones just how accurate the information would be, as openly telling the elders the truth can very quickly get you shunned. I know in my case although the main reason I left was the information I was getting from the Internet, as far as the congregation members know the reason I left was because of materialism. Although to a point this is correct and this is what would be sent to the society as a reason this is a far cry from the truth. How can they rely on been given the correct information when every one is to scared to give it for fear of been shunned. I would absolutely love to come out to them and tell them why I chose to fade, and probably would also also DA at the same time but under the present situation with immediate and extended family that just isn’t an option.
But good on you Wt for stepping up to the mark and I do think it show a level of maturity to admit there is a problem.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 5, 2015 at 7:57 pm
@Thinkingofleaving. There are many like you who have Spent Decades serving The Organisation & now feel DISILLUSIONED!!!’ Why? Because WE HAVE A BRAIN & CAN REASON!!!
YOU ARE SO RIGHT the inactive ones if asked by Elders will not give the Real Reasons for FEAR of SHUNNING & LOSING CONTACT With FAMILY!!
Reply
Sofia Medrano says:
September 5, 2015 at 7:06 pm
I doubt that Watchtower move a genuine interest in helping anyone. The reality is that they need more money for cumbersome trials from their victims that they must to pay and the luxury shameless life of their leaders.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 5, 2015 at 8:13 pm
@Sofia . I am from England but I think a Many JWs from Many Different countries if they have Access to the INTERNET will SEE Right through the FACADE of these 7 PHONY FALSE PROPHETS in BROOKLYN soon to be housed in their LUXURIOUS LAKESIDE BUILDINGS in WARWICK!!
Stephen Lett was so BLATANT in his Monthly GB BROADCAST about not being SHY in BEGGING for MONEY!!!! Oh Yes Stephen you are Sooooo CHRISTLIKE in SHAMELESSLY Screwing MONEY from CHILDRENs ICE CREAM MONEY!!!
Ermmmm ! Jesus Had Nowhere to Lay his Head !
Paul was a TENTMAKER so as Not to be a Burden on the Brothers!!’ SO STEPHEN ME OLD BUDDY….. GO & GET A JOB & MAKE SOME LOVELY GORGEOUS LUXURY TENTS or at Least GET A JOB IN WALMART so as not to be a burden on the brothers!!!!
Reply
Sardec says:
September 6, 2015 at 3:38 am
JW.ORGy trying to figure out which demographic to spin their trash to.
Reply
Excelsior! says:
September 6, 2015 at 4:59 am
Folks,
The WTBTS’ new concern for inactive or faded individuals is due to the fact that they are haemoraging members, and the growth is only 1%, when natural birth and death rates are factored.
They are also becoming increasingly concerned about inactive or faded individuals informing those still active about all their dirty little secrets.
The inactive army is not quite as dormant as they once believed!
It takes millions of hours to make one new convert, if the WTBTS’ own figures are to be believed. It makes sense to try to reclaim any who have become inactive, before they can access the deluge of negative information readily available on the Internet.
I have read the “Return to Jehovah” pamphlet. It was really awful. It reeks of cultism. It assumes the reasons for becoming inactive, and yet totally ignores the main reasons – the beliefs are gobbledygook, and serious crimes have been covered up!
Sure, the WTBTS may well have a small number return due to this pamphlet, but can they ever truly trust their motives for returning?
We know that Pickled Brain and Average Joe are still active JWs, but they are no longer asleep. How many of the active JW population are truly, 100% loyal to the governing body now?
We all reap what we sow. The WTBTS have never provided an honourable, consequence free way of leaving their religion. They encourage shunning. With these facts in mind, those facing their exit from the cult have no option but to live lives that bury their true feelings and beliefs behind a facade of obedience. The WTBTS is reaping what it has sown. I am very pleased that they are discomforted and feeling that crawling sensation down their back!
Look out, Watchtower! Your enemies are within your gates!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
John Baptist says:
September 6, 2015 at 6:38 am
I always enjoy my Sunday morning worship by reading JWsurvey while lying in bed on my humble Iphone. Lol
And that all before my first and only cup of decaf coffee.
Reply
John Baptist says:
September 6, 2015 at 7:34 am
Now that I have had my Decaf Coffee and have moved on to my computer. lol
I Google translated(TY Douglas Merrill) the Polish letter and found this very Interesting.
” Give their names, age, and a brief description of the causes,
THAT YOU THINK contributed to their situation”
Are you kidding me? How blatant of a CULT CONTROL TACTIC IS THAT? “THAT YOU THINK”
Well what about me the poor spiritually weak depressed soul your trying to save or flush out for fear of me and Perhaps what I MAY THINK contributed to ME and MY situation. How telling those objectives are!
Again are you trying to re-control my mind and what you think I should feel?
Fool me once but not twice!
You smell and act like a CULT! After all this is your MO for years. Perhaps you are the Wolf’s in Sheep’s Clothing that Jesus was talking about.
Reply
Innocent Son says:
September 6, 2015 at 12:46 pm
The Storm Clouds are gathering! This ruthless cult-like religion is in fear!!! All the inactive ones and the faders will be checking out the Org. for themselves thanks to the Internet and sites like these. They will discover s tissue of lies they have been fed… Break free…My Brothers and Sisters, It’s lovely on the outside. Embrace the truth and live your lives without fear….
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 6, 2015 at 3:20 pm
@Excelsior,John Baptist & Innocent Son.
ENJOYED ALL Your Comments & all your points are well put & hopefully any inactive or Faders reading this Site will be encouraged by your Factual Reasonings!!
Reply
Newer Comments →
Leave a Reply
Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *
Name *
Email *
Website
Comment
You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>
applications-education-miscellaneous.png
Comment posting guidelines:
Kindly observe the following requirements before posting any comments to our articles or pages:
◾ABUSIVE COMMENTS - Do not post comments that include swear words or may be considered abusive, lewd, blasphemous, obscene or threatening
◾ILLEGAL COMMENTS - Do not post comments that condone or propose illegal activity, or that breach copyright law
◾OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS - Do not post comments that are off-topic and bear no relation to the page or article
◾RELIGIOUS NEUTRALITY - Do not post comments that are evangelical in nature or may be construed as imposing one person's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) over those of another
◾LANGUAGE - Visitors from all countries and language groups are welcome. You may post comments in languages other than English, but we would appreciate if you could make any such comments brief. We would also be grateful if you could run any such comments through Google Translate and convert these to English, but this is not an absolute requirement.
◾LINKS - You may post links to third party websites, so long as (1) you limit these to 2 links per comment, and (2) the content on these links doesn't contravene ANY of the first four points. Specifically, you may not post URLs to websites that are evangelical in nature. Our links page has an extensive list of such sites for any who are curious about Christian beliefs in the context of Jehovah's Witnesses.
JWSurvey.org thanks all visitors in advance for respectfully observing these guidelines. Any who persistently fail to do so, despite warnings, may find themselves blocked from making further comments at the discretion of the site moderators, whose decision will be final and not open for debate.
Notify me of new posts by email.
Click on
Visit JWfacts.com for more information on JW beliefs
Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses
JW Recovery forum
Barbara Anderson's Watchtower Documents resource
Visit JWstruggle.com for helpful information on exiting JW mind control Visit TAZE.co for discussion on Jehovah's Witness developments
Support JWsurvey
Help us make continued improvements to this website and its content.
Article Categories
◾Apostates (28)
◾Blood transfusions (12)
◾Books (5)
◾Cedars' Blog (211)
◾Cedars' Story (4)
◾Celebrity JWs (2)
◾Child Abuse (51)
◾Child Indoctrination (16)
◾Divine Direction (4)
◾Domestic Abuse (2)
◾Doomsday Predictions (1)
◾Downsizing (7)
◾Evolution and creation (6)
◾General Information (1)
◾Governing Body (34)
◾Higher education (3)
◾History and scandals (6)
◾JW.org (8)
◾Life Stories (10)
◾Mental health (5)
◾Mini-Surveys (5)
◾News (191)
◾Property sales (5)
◾Publications (6)
◾Shunning (13)
◾Support (6)
◾Survey (11)
◾Undue influence (16)
◾Warwick headquarters (4)
Search JWsurvey
Subscribe to JW Survey
Enter your email address to receive notices of new posts by email.
Join 836 other subscribers
Email Address
Listen to JWpodcast
Check out the latest episode of JW podcast!
Latest John Cedars video
Popular JW sites in other languages
Languages
More languages...
Select... Croatian Czech Dutch Estonian Finnish 1 Finnish 2 French 1 French 2 French 3 German 1 German 2 Hungarian Italian 1 Italian 2 Italian 3 Japanese Polish 1 Polish 2 Polish 3 Portuguese 1 Portuguese 2 Romanian Russian 1 Russian 2 Russian 3 Serbian 1 Serbian 2 Serbian 3 Slovak Spanish 1 Spanish 2
Top Posts & Pages
David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
Following the "Return to Jehovah" release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
Following the "Return to Jehovah" release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
Links
Links
JW Broadcasting
JW Broadcasting
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
Videos
Videos
Key Articles
Is JWsurvey.org an apostate website?
What is the new light on the faithful slave?
Has Watchtower ever lied or withheld informatiion?
Open Offer
Open Offer to all bethelites
Do you work at Brooklyn, Patterson or Wallkill? If so, please click here.
Our Promise
Making corrections
Is there something incorrect or unfactual on this website? If so, please let us know and we will correct it.
2015 results at a glance
Number of respondents to the 2015 Global Survey
Site Stats
Visitor stats for JWsurvey
Like us on Facebook!
Cedars’ Twitter Feed
Who's Online
◾0 Members.
◾34 Guests.
Reader Comments
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾ruthlee on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
Menu
◾About JW Survey
◾Contact Us
◾Experiences
◾Get Involved
◾Global Surveys ◾2011 Global Survey
◾2012 Global Survey
◾2013 Global Survey
◾2014 Global Survey
◾2015 Global Survey
◾JW Broadcasting
◾JWawake.com
◾Links
◾Videos
◾Welcome
Login
◾Login
Scan JWsurvey.org
Copyright © 2011-2013 JWsurvey.org. Site design and support by The Small Web Master.
StatCounter - Free Web Tracker and Counter
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/following-the-return-to-jehovah-release-is-the-net-closing-on-inactive-ones/comment-page-1#comments
Skip to content
JWsurvey
Welcome
Cedars’ Blog
About JW Survey
Global Surveys
»
Videos
JW Broadcasting
Get Involved
Links
Contact Us
← An apology, and update on what’s in store for JWsurvey
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership →
Following the “Return to Jehovah” release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
avatar
Posted on September 4, 2015
Tony Morris releases a brochure aimed at bringing back inactive ones, who now appear to be under closer scrutiny
Tony Morris releases a brochure aimed at bringing back inactive ones, who now appear to be under closer scrutiny
A leaked Watchtower letter in Polish addressed to all elders in Poland has asked for details of Witnesses who have become inactive since September 2014.
The letter gives instructions for congregations to send in the “S-10″ form – an annual document that asks elders for basic figures regarding the number of active/inactive/reactivated publishers, the amount of unworked territory, and the number of those who are deaf or blind.
But the leaked letter, dated September 1, 2015, makes an additional request for the particulars of anyone who has ceased to be an active publisher over the last 12 months. It is so far unclear as to whether the same letter has been sent out in other countries or languages.
A translation of the pertinent sentence in the letter reads: “Given the special care we are giving to our inactive ones, we ask your secretary to prepare an additional letter about witnesses who became inactive in the 2015 service year. Please specify their names, surnames, age and a short summary about what you think was the cause for their current situation.”
It goes on to say: “We are confident that the information they choose to divulge will assist you in better caring for the needs of our brothers and sisters throughout the territory. (1 Peter 5:2)”
Especially if similar instructions are issued throughout the world, the letter would seem to indicate that Watchtower is starting to bring inactive ones, and especially their motives, under closer scrutiny.
The “Return to Jehovah” brochure released at this year’s convention series (which the letter seems to allude to) indicates that there is a clear disparity between Watchtower’s notion of why people become inactive, and the reality of the situation.
The brochure suggests that Witnesses become inactive due to “anxiety,” “hurt feelings,” or “guilt.” But the most popular responses for 1,614 inactive/faders who took part in last year’s 2014 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses (the full results of which are soon to be published) indicated reasons involving intellectual honesty.
(Click on the image below to enlarge)
inactive-ones-2014Though there will always be a percentage of inactive ones who remain indoctrinated and blame themselves for being too “spiritually weak,” the reality is that often inactive ones simply grow tired of lending their support to a religion they no longer believe in.
Watchtower must understand this at some level, despite their fanciful treatment of the subject in the “Return to Jehovah” brochure. It is, after all, their shunning policy that makes Jehovah’s Witnesses a “captive organization” (to borrow the words of Angus Stewart at the Australian Royal Commission) from which it is impossible to leave gracefully.
If you are fortunate enough to wake up from your Witness indoctrination and seek to maintain contact with believing family members, turning inactive or “fading” on the understanding that you will not speak out against the organization is the only option available to you.
Perhaps Watchtower is already observing the signs of a mass exodus now that 100 years of “God’s Kingdom” have rolled by with no sign of Armageddon, thus rendering the cherished 1914 teaching increasingly obsolete. Or perhaps this new letter to elders in Poland is simply a genuine attempt at reaching out to “spiritually weak” ones in the wake of the new brochure.
Either way one thing is certain: if Watchtower wants to keep abusing its members through shunning, the mishandling of child abuse, the deadly prohibition on blood and the stigmatization of higher learning, they had better get used to Witnesses finding their way to the exit one way or the other.
new-cedars-signature3
*Thanks to WifiBandit and the exJW Reddit community for bringing my attention to this letter.
To have your say in the 2015 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses, click here!
Related video…
Share this:
in
Share
.
.
Like this:
Bookmark the permalink.
← An apology, and update on what’s in store for JWsurvey
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership →
105 Responses to Following the “Return to Jehovah” release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
← Older Comments
Average Joe says:
September 6, 2015 at 3:22 pm
Hey Excelsior. Thanks for mentioning me in dispatches. I feel honoured! This limbo state really is quite scary and unnerving. The WT study today was quite interesting as it was talking about making our spiritual paradise even better (nice sentiments for those genuine JWs that still exist) and yet we had the typical self-righteous comment that it was obvious that the “study” in the illustrations was progressing as he had changed his “worldly” hairstyle. I hadn’t even noticed it until that sister brought it out. Actually the WTS seem to associate being a JW with crappy hairstyles because God-forbid that anyone with a decent (as in well looked after) and modern hairstyle be granted everlasting life! 😉
It brought out to me the irony of the situation I am in. There are some really great people in our cong, who I tend to hang out with and when I think of it, they are classed as the “weaker” ones or “rebels” in the truth. They are not of course; they just see things like I do and decide not to let the judgemental comments of others get to them. It helps with me being an elder too as nobody can criticise me (without me telling them to stop judging at least) so at least my friends get some moral support.
It’s really sad that situations like this exist in an organisation that claims to stand apart from others in showing love.
On a side point, I hope one day to be able to share a drink with you Excelsior (and others on here too) as you seem like a thoroughly decent individual with a good head on your shoulders and a fine reasoning ability without coming across as judgmental or a know-it-all. Cheers!
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 6, 2015 at 8:14 pm
@Average Joe . Looks like we are in the same situation . & Yes ,the SELF RIGHTEOUS COMMENTS in the Watchtower this Weeks Study at the meeting made me SICK AT The HYPOCRISY!!!
One brother answered & said ‘We JWs are Privileged to be in a SPIRITUAL PARADISE & That JEHOVAHS ORGANISATION is the SAFEST PLACE to be because Our Organisation has the BEST MORALS!!!!!!’
I Nearly FELL OUT of MY CHAIR!!!!! This Comment was from an ELDER!! Oh MY GOD ??? I STARTED Having a COUGHING FIT. My wife said ‘Was I Alright?’ I said ‘ There is an AWFUL STENCH in here’ & I need to go to the toilet!!
BUT I Looked around the Hall & there were quite a fee Embarrassed Faces!! I know who has been following the Royal Commission in Australia & who Hasn’t!!!!
Reply
Excelsior! says:
September 8, 2015 at 7:23 am
Thanks, Average Joe!
It is gratifying to know that many folks on this site appreciate where I am coming from.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
minion says:
September 6, 2015 at 4:54 pm
Good evening to all:
For the friends that live in Canada, you can protect yourself by way of implementing your privacy policy act or breach of personal information from the WT Corp. This agency is here to protect us, however, you must reach out to them and report a crime.
The excerpt provided is for informational purposes.
Office of the
Privacy Commissioner
of Canada
Common menu bar
RSS feeds
BreadcrumbHome
Privacy Breaches
Reporting breaches under the Privacy Act
Privacy Act Breach Report For Use by Government of Canada Institutions
Reporting breaches under PIPEDA
Privacy Breach Incident Report Form
Information about privacy breaches and how to respond
On June 18, 2015, the Digital Privacy Actexternal received Royal Assent. The Act introduces a number of amendments to the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act (PIPEDA). Among the amendments are new provisions related to breach reporting. However, the breach provisions will only come into force on a day to be fixed by order of the Governor in Council. For more information about the amendments, please see the Government of Canada’s Digital Privacy Act backgrounderexternal.
Primary navigation (left column)
NEED OUR HELP?
Send us questions, comments or complaints
HOW TO REPORT A PRIVACY BREACH
For organizations
SECURING PERSONAL INFORMATION
For organizations
Reply
minion says:
September 6, 2015 at 5:12 pm
Good evening to all:
For the friends that live in Poland, no worries or fears. We have an agency who will protect your personal privacy. However, you must reach out to them and file a complaint against the WT Corp.
The excerpt enclosed is for informational purposes, and there web address is, http://www.giodo.gov.pl
POLISH LEGAL ACTS CONCERNING THE PROTECTION OF PERSONAL DATA
Resolution of the first Polish Act on the Protection of Personal Data being a manifestation of progressing democratization of public life in Poland and concern for the protection of privacy of every Polish citizen which have found an expression in provisions of new Constitution of the Republic of Poland (Articles 47 and 51) had its direct origins also in the Polish international commitments. The provisions regulating the rules of personal data processing were introduced into Polish legislation by the Act of 29 August 1997 on the Protection of Personal Data (unified text: Journal of Laws of 2002 No. 101, item 926 with later amendments) which mostly follows the rules established by the Directive 95/46/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council and is compatible with the general policy of the European states. Introduction of the provisions concerning the protection of personal data into the Polish legal system allowed Poland signing on April 21, 1999 and ratification on May 24, 2002 of the Convention No. 108 of the Council of Europe. The aforementioned act is an essential component of the Polish personal data protection system, which is composed first of all, besides provisions of this act, of provisions of the Constitution: Article 47 guaranteeing everyone’s right to privacy and Article 51 guaranteeing everyone’s right to have the information pertaining to him/her protected.
Peace out,
Reply
minion says:
September 6, 2015 at 5:29 pm
Good evening to all:
To loçate your respective Personal Privacy Policy Act – Law in effect in your country. On how you can protect your personal information or if you feel WT Corp has breach or invaded your personal privacy, then you must file a complaint against WT Corp.
To locate the Personal Privacy Policy Act, go to Google: enter; ‘personal privacy policy act (state your Country)’ your resources will be in abundance.
You must file a complaint against WT Corp, for invading your personal privacy – your name.
Peace out,
Reply
minion says:
September 6, 2015 at 8:49 pm
Good evening to all:
For the friends that live in Poland.
You may also have available Free Legal Aid – assistance to help your defense in protecting your personal information private. Under the Personal Privacy Policy Act. Your information such as, name, age, status, address, etc. Is Private, WT Corp does not need this information, or has the right to do so.
The excerpt enclosed is for informational purposes. There web address:https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/issues/rights-justice
Legal Aid in Poland
April 2015 Open Society Justice Initiative
Legal Aid in Poland
This fact sheet summarizes the legal representation available who cannot afford their own lawyer in Poland, including information on how legal aid is adminstered and who is eligible to receive it.
: Minimum Requirements under International Law
Other fact sheets in this series, prepared to support discussions on developing common European Union standards on legal aid, include:
Belgium
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Ireland
Italy
The Netherlands
Learn More:
Criminal Justice, Europe, European Union, Rights & Justice
Peace out,
Reply
WTS Archive says:
September 7, 2015 at 11:34 am
Wow, nice to see the letter I leaked being featured on JW Survey :). Greetings from Poland!
Reply
Outlookingin says:
September 7, 2015 at 1:02 pm
I have been inactive for 2 years so would not be a person of interest if a similar letter was sent to elders in the UK. Upon receiving a ‘Return To Jehovah’ brochure recently, I wrote a letter to the Society expressing my disappointment that there was no section dealing with the reasons for my departure. I explained that whilst I do suffer with anxiety, guilt and hurt feelings, these are things I have cultivated AS A RESULT of being a JW for 30 years. I continued by highlighting my reason for leaving; doctrinal conflict. Perhaps if others wrote a similar letter, the Society would have no need to ponder and speculate the reasons for the exodus!
Reply
Lisa Clark says:
September 7, 2015 at 1:59 pm
I too just received this brochure sent from my mother. I left 25 years ago, and she will not stop. Wondering how to address this and thinking I should send it back. Any suggestions?
Reply
minion says:
September 7, 2015 at 2:19 pm
Good evening Lisa:
Please go to and review in depth ‘JW Global Survey 2015′ and review question #60.
You will find helpful topics of conversations or conversation stoppers. Be sure to type out the series of questions, they are powerful and most profound.
Your mother gave you a gift, return the favor using question #60 in a pre-printed format. No doubt she will review the contents at her lesuire. Away from your presence.
Peace out,
Reply
Mary says:
September 7, 2015 at 4:51 pm
This is actually nothing new. I remember doing a “Comments You Will Not Hear” several years ago on JWD and I think it was called “Help The Return” or something like that. It was all about those that become inactive and trying to lurn them back to the Borg ‘before it’s too late!’
I think they’re hesitant to DF or DA inactive ones simply because there’s always the chance that they’ll go back. However, I do agree that they’ll probably start brow-beating the elders to contact those who are inactive and nag the living crap out of them to come back.
Reply
Dan says:
September 7, 2015 at 6:26 pm
The power they have is only the power that you give them. They are no one, and I have no time for them.
Reply
Redgreenyellow says:
September 7, 2015 at 11:56 pm
A warning for those living in the lords day (our day) from Jesus about the congragations (called lampstands).He said they would desolve or be taken away if the leaders (or angels/elders) are not doing what they are supposed to. (Rev. 1:20 ;2:5)
In Jude 11-13 it says of Elders: “Stars with no set course” and “sheperds who feed themselves without fear” saying about them “These are the rocks hidden below water at your love feast.”
They are those who are supposed to be leading good but are no longer righteous due to the unrighteousness that was found in them by God Almighty.
Sad to say but they are the reason so many leave .They put on a mask for their circut over seers fooling them, however the people with no power or the weak are the witness God will use against them and by them they will be jugded.
GOD SAYS in Malachi 3:5 about His people who are bad -“I will come near to you for judgment, and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, against the adulterers, against those who take false oaths, against those who defraud the hired worker, the widow, and the fatherless child, and against those who refuse to help a foreigner.
These have not feared me,” Says Jehovah of armies.
Reply
Wip it says:
September 8, 2015 at 6:05 pm
I see a clear falling away attitude from so many here, the comment made about the elders is quite true, no love shown, no concern, we are just marked at being negative, meeting attendance is poor, i think the longer time goes on more & more will fade, the last co visit put the elders on notice, i personally have been burnt by them, (we call them Pharisee’s now) I have had a beard/goatee for the last 2 years, some of them won’t even talk to me, their is no spirit here, & people just keep on asking what is wrong with this place. We just have to be smart so as not to be investigated, but as they don’t talk to me its not a problem, & i can safely sit here at work & send blogs freely.So as my wife doesn’t know, as she is still convinced this is the truth.The last elder who moved in was completely destroyed by them as he was outspoken, in his own words he is now poisoned, younger guys see it & feel the same.
Reply
search4truth says:
September 9, 2015 at 5:11 pm
Many Polish jw’s moved to England in the past ten years. There are Polish congregations in every larger British city
with dozens of publishers. I believe thats the main reason for the drop of publishers in Poland.
Reply
Thinking of leaving says:
September 11, 2015 at 3:41 am
Searchfortruth= although I can totally understand what your saying about Polish migration. By using simple arithmetic or 27 congregations per annum dissolving × over 15 years × an average of 100 pubs per congregation = 40500 publishers leaving Poland. So therefore we would expect this figure to be seen as a spike in the UK figures.
There has been a very similar thing in this country with a migration from rural areas into the main city centre’s. I have seen this locally as one rural congregation was closed down and merged with another.Even despite this migration pattern the congregations in the city centers have failed to expand. I live in a main metropolitan area and the KH are emptying out. Certainly I can understand people leaving Poland but it’s when they get to England is where they go missing.
Reply
← Older Comments
Leave a Reply
Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *
Name *
Email *
Website
Comment
You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>
applications-education-miscellaneous.png
Comment posting guidelines:
Kindly observe the following requirements before posting any comments to our articles or pages:
◾ABUSIVE COMMENTS - Do not post comments that include swear words or may be considered abusive, lewd, blasphemous, obscene or threatening
◾ILLEGAL COMMENTS - Do not post comments that condone or propose illegal activity, or that breach copyright law
◾OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS - Do not post comments that are off-topic and bear no relation to the page or article
◾RELIGIOUS NEUTRALITY - Do not post comments that are evangelical in nature or may be construed as imposing one person's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) over those of another
◾LANGUAGE - Visitors from all countries and language groups are welcome. You may post comments in languages other than English, but we would appreciate if you could make any such comments brief. We would also be grateful if you could run any such comments through Google Translate and convert these to English, but this is not an absolute requirement.
◾LINKS - You may post links to third party websites, so long as (1) you limit these to 2 links per comment, and (2) the content on these links doesn't contravene ANY of the first four points. Specifically, you may not post URLs to websites that are evangelical in nature. Our links page has an extensive list of such sites for any who are curious about Christian beliefs in the context of Jehovah's Witnesses.
JWSurvey.org thanks all visitors in advance for respectfully observing these guidelines. Any who persistently fail to do so, despite warnings, may find themselves blocked from making further comments at the discretion of the site moderators, whose decision will be final and not open for debate.
Notify me of new posts by email.
Click on
Visit JWfacts.com for more information on JW beliefs
Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses
JW Recovery forum
Barbara Anderson's Watchtower Documents resource
Visit JWstruggle.com for helpful information on exiting JW mind control Visit TAZE.co for discussion on Jehovah's Witness developments
Support JWsurvey
Help us make continued improvements to this website and its content.
Article Categories
◾Apostates (28)
◾Blood transfusions (12)
◾Books (5)
◾Cedars' Blog (211)
◾Cedars' Story (4)
◾Celebrity JWs (2)
◾Child Abuse (51)
◾Child Indoctrination (16)
◾Divine Direction (4)
◾Domestic Abuse (2)
◾Doomsday Predictions (1)
◾Downsizing (7)
◾Evolution and creation (6)
◾General Information (1)
◾Governing Body (34)
◾Higher education (3)
◾History and scandals (6)
◾JW.org (8)
◾Life Stories (10)
◾Mental health (5)
◾Mini-Surveys (5)
◾News (191)
◾Property sales (5)
◾Publications (6)
◾Shunning (13)
◾Support (6)
◾Survey (11)
◾Undue influence (16)
◾Warwick headquarters (4)
Search JWsurvey
Subscribe to JW Survey
Enter your email address to receive notices of new posts by email.
Join 836 other subscribers
Email Address
Listen to JWpodcast
Check out the latest episode of JW podcast!
Latest John Cedars video
Popular JW sites in other languages
Languages
More languages...
Select... Croatian Czech Dutch Estonian Finnish 1 Finnish 2 French 1 French 2 French 3 German 1 German 2 Hungarian Italian 1 Italian 2 Italian 3 Japanese Polish 1 Polish 2 Polish 3 Portuguese 1 Portuguese 2 Romanian Russian 1 Russian 2 Russian 3 Serbian 1 Serbian 2 Serbian 3 Slovak Spanish 1 Spanish 2
Top Posts & Pages
David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
Following the "Return to Jehovah" release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
Following the "Return to Jehovah" release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
Links
Links
JW Broadcasting
JW Broadcasting
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
Videos
Videos
Key Articles
Is JWsurvey.org an apostate website?
What is the new light on the faithful slave?
Has Watchtower ever lied or withheld informatiion?
Open Offer
Open Offer to all bethelites
Do you work at Brooklyn, Patterson or Wallkill? If so, please click here.
Our Promise
Making corrections
Is there something incorrect or unfactual on this website? If so, please let us know and we will correct it.
2015 results at a glance
Number of respondents to the 2015 Global Survey
Site Stats
Visitor stats for JWsurvey
Like us on Facebook!
Cedars’ Twitter Feed
Who's Online
◾0 Members.
◾36 Guests.
Reader Comments
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾ruthlee on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
Menu
◾About JW Survey
◾Contact Us
◾Experiences
◾Get Involved
◾Global Surveys ◾2011 Global Survey
◾2012 Global Survey
◾2013 Global Survey
◾2014 Global Survey
◾2015 Global Survey
◾JW Broadcasting
◾JWawake.com
◾Links
◾Videos
◾Welcome
Login
◾Login
Scan JWsurvey.org
Copyright © 2011-2013 JWsurvey.org. Site design and support by The Small Web Master.
StatCounter - Free Web Tracker and Counter
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/following-the-return-to-jehovah-release-is-the-net-closing-on-inactive-ones#comments
Skip to content
JWsurvey
Welcome
Cedars’ Blog
About JW Survey
Global Surveys
»
Videos
JW Broadcasting
Get Involved
Links
Contact Us
← Following the “Return to Jehovah” release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it) →
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
avatar
Posted on September 5, 2015
Fear plays a powerful role in cult indoctrination
Fear plays a powerful role in cult indoctrination
If I lay a plank across two overturned buckets, it should be simple to walk across it unharmed. If I take that same plank, however, and suspend it across an extremely deep and narrow chasm the walk across would be an entirely different experience. Even through both walks would be the same physical demonstration, mentally and emotionally they are dramatically different.
This is because of the way fear works in the brain. It has a tendency to overpower our logical faculties and, at times, create the very circumstances we are so fearfully avoiding.
When walking across a bridge over a deep chasm, for example, it’s best to avoid even looking down. Simply looking down could induce paranoia and compromise your ability to balance. Looking straight ahead and focusing on the task at hand is the best way to get safely across.
Jehovah’s Witnesses exist in an environment where fear is a prime motivator. In their world view 1914 marked the year when the earth was invaded by wicked spirit creatures cast down from heaven in huge numbers. They see the entire world population as deceived by those powerful spirit beings and on the path to a painful death that will bring about eternal destruction. Many do not challenge this narrative because doing so would immediately induce a state of fear and mental pain.
They claim that the only means of survival from these superhuman foes is in the protective arms of “God’s organization.” Only by listening to and obeying the information that comes out of “God’s channel” can you defeat the invisible demon hordes that allegedly riddle the planet.
Fear supply and demand
When attempting to market a product it is highly effective to convince customers it will save them from some looming catastrophe. Once you do that it is much easier to get them to make a commitment. Fear sells.
In the May 2015 JW Broadcasting episode hosted by Stephen Lett, a JW man recounted his experience as a child when he encountered one of the Watchtower’s books:
“When I was six years old my aunt, who’d just become a witness, she showed me this book. And there is a picture inside I remember so well: it’s of Armageddon. That scares a little kid, I thought, ‘I don’t want to be there.’ But a few pages later there’s a picture of a paradise. I never forgot it and I wanted to be there someday. So I thought, maybe my aunt has something. What have I got to lose? So I called them and said, ‘send over some witnesses.’”
This man’s experience aptly shows how Jehovah’s Witnesses successfully use fear to market to young and impressionable minds. First, he was subjected to a grizzly image of a child falling to her death. Then, once he is genuinely terrified of a painful divine execution, he’s shown a paradise earth. The fear-based marketing strategy was a total success and resulted in a life-long member.
Details from page 209 of the 1958 book "From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained"
Details from page 209 of the 1958 book “From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained”
The May Watchtower “study edition” has a duo of articles that follow the same exact pattern. The first article is all about how Satan and his demons are extremely powerful, cruel and malicious. They have the entire world in their hands and it’s impossible to face them alone. The very next article then quells the fear by asserting that success is possible by following it’s guidance.
The boogeymen
The May Watchtower mentioned above begins with the statement: “At one point in time, he [Satan] enjoyed a fine standing with Jehovah.” The statement alludes to a concept often repeated by Jehovah’s Witnesses on the podium and in their literature. They tell the story of how apostates come to be, and it often begins with someone who was a model religious figure; someone who was well respected.
The next sentence goes on to say that, at some point, Satan began to desire the worship of humans which sent him down the path of evil and enmity with God. It’s common for Jehovah’s Witnesses to accuse ex members who are activists as seeking glory for themselves. The way they describe the personality of apostates is reminiscent of the way they describe God’s greatest foe: Satan the Devil. They are clearly drawing a parallel.
Activists who expose the Watchtower have to deal with a constant stream of slander and disinformation. They are consistently misconstrued as power-hungry maniacs who are seduced by the Devil into campaigning against the faith of “God’s people.” Apostates are the boogeymen and are to be avoided at all costs.
The May article makes sure to tell readers that, without divine help, there is only failure in the fight against the Devil and his minions:
“Never underestimate the power of such wicked angels or that of ‘the ruler of the demons.’ Without help from Jehovah, we could never win our fight against Satan.”
This narrative helps retain membership, because it uses the idea that if you ever leave you’re basically demon fodder. In the world of the Watchtower, if you ever leave your peers will consider you someone who has willingly embarked on a suicide mission.
Phobia Induction
Destructive cults use phobias to control people and create dependency.
It’s similar to the way substance abuse works. Once addicted, a person will not be able to see themselves in a substance-free life. The very prospect is just too terrifying, because they have developed a severe dependency. Similarly, members of cults are guided into believing that without the aid of the cult only failure and misery await. This makes the first steps of leaving extremely difficult, which ensures that many will simply give up and stay.
In the beginning of my awakening, about 6 years ago, I sat down at my computer and used a search engine to research Jehovah’s Witnesses. I remember experiencing intense fear when I read through the results, because many of them were obviously critical of the religion. I distinctly remember my hand trembling as I moved my mouse and clicked on a link.
This is a perfect example of how my past religion induces phobias in its membership. I was extremely afraid of a website written by someone critical of the Watchtower. I had been conditioned to believe that anything critical was written by evil, power-hungry drones of Satan. It was quite some time before I was able to get past that entrenched fear and really start looking into the religion honestly.
Frankly, leaving was the best thing that ever happened to me. It enabled me to start a whole new life unencumbered by past irrational fears. Life is difficult enough without adding on unnecessary anxiety brought on by fears not based in reason or evidence. Looking back, I can safely say that nothing Watchtower predicted took place. It was all just a bunch of fears that were put into me instead of originating within me.
If you or someone you love suffers from irrational fears brought on by cult indoctrination, there are resources available to help. There are also many people out there going through the same experience in various stages. We are not alone and the feelings we experience are a natural occurrence of the undue influence we were subjected to.
Recovering from cult indoctrination is an incremental process and involves a sizable amount of perseverance. Let’s walk across this chasm safely and together. Just try not to look down!
new-james-signature
Share this:
in
Share
.
.
Like this:
Bookmark the permalink.
← Following the “Return to Jehovah” release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it) →
127 Responses to Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
Newer Comments →
Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
September 5, 2015 at 1:43 am
Good article. Ruling by “INDUCING FEAR” is evident in their own publications. Here you are! In Rwanda, the waves of fear are still pushing the cult forward…
*** w95 1/1 pp. 6-7 Triumphing Over Satan and His Works ***
In Strife-Torn Rwanda
10 In 1993, Rwanda, with 2,080 Kingdom publishers, had 4,075 attend the “Divine Teaching” District Convention, and 230 were baptized. Of these, 142 immediately applied for auxiliary pioneer service. Home Bible studies being conducted climbed to 7,655 in 1994—evidently too many for Satan’s liking! Though the great majority of the populace profess to be Christian, intertribal massacres were launched. The Vatican’s L’Osservatore Romano admitted: “This is an out-and-out genocide, for which unfortunately even Catholics are responsible.” An estimated half million men, women, and children died, and some two million were made homeless or forced to flee. Maintaining their nonviolent Christian neutrality, Jehovah’s Witnesses tried to stay together. Hundreds of our brothers and sisters were killed. But in one congregation of 65 Kingdom publishers, where 13 were killed, meeting attendance increased to 170 by August 1994. Relief supplies from Witnesses in other lands were among the first to arrive. Our prayers ascend in behalf of the survivors.—Romans 12:12; 2 Thessalonians 3:1, 2; Hebrews 10:23-25.
11 Amid all the horror, the three missionaries who were in Rwanda escaped. They write: “We realize that our brothers throughout the world have had to face up to similar situations or worse, and we know that it is all part of the sign of the last days of this wicked system. Still, when one is personally involved, it brings home the reality of things and makes one appreciate how precious life is. Certain scriptures have taken on new meaning for us, and we look forward to the time when the former things will no longer come to mind. In the meantime we want to keep busy in Jehovah’s service.”
Reply
Ziddina says:
September 5, 2015 at 12:30 pm
How ironic that the Watchtower Society, with all of its millions (perhaps even being worth a billion dollars at this point), failed to even consider sending assistance to get all of the Rwandan Jehovah’s Witnesses out of the area of conflict – or the country – to a refuge center until the dangers had passed.
I guess that would be left to the “worldly” agencies under “Satan’s” direction via the United Nations – now that the Watchtower Society’s Brooklyn headquarters are no longer registered as an NGO with the United Nations…
Reply
eyesopen says:
September 5, 2015 at 4:42 pm
Excellent point.
Reply
JBob says:
September 7, 2015 at 5:32 pm
“worldly” agencies? you mean like the United Nations NGO’s?
Reply
Patti says:
September 5, 2015 at 2:01 am
This is one of the best eye opener articles I have read and made me feel as though I should comment on it.
Having been raised as a JW along with my 4 brothers since I was about 5 years old all of this really makes sense. All of us were repeatedly told fear inspiring and scary supposed truths/facts that caused nightmares, confusion (thought God was the epitome of love) and definitely put serious doubt in our minds about life.
So far two of my brothers and myself, as well as our families, have taken a stand against these lies. Unless someone has been indoctrinated it would be easy for them to say – just leave – but the ramifications are daunting – at first anyway.
I was always a sort of rebel, asking questions that I knew there were answers to. The elders (and our parents) always seemed to circumvent answering them or gave us a shallow and incomplete answer that they hoped would suffice. They said that IF these questions were important to our lives the GB would make sure we had the answers or a similar line of reasoning. Also would use the old and worn out phrase – J will give us clarification or answers in the proper time.
On their death beds both of our parents expressed confusion and doubt about what they had believed. My dad actually said ‘I hope I didn’t just waste 50 years of my life’ (he was an elder for most of that time). He also admitted that he should have pursued the answers to my questions when I asked them as now he had the same doubts.
We are so very disgusted that the GB will not and have never accepted responsibility for their statements written and verbally stated that terrified people into becoming unthinking followers. In our opinion, they are totally bloodguilty and only continue to put more and more heavy burdens on everyone – making laws of their own and using scriptures out of context to support them.
Thanks for posting this very enlightening and hopefully life-saving article.
Reply
Paul says:
September 5, 2015 at 2:39 am
I agree with you 100% about the responsibility of the GB who now place themselves above Christ. They are really blood guilty and total idiots as JW TV is now proudly showing the whole world.
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 5, 2015 at 9:39 am
and whatever happened to the discreet part?
Reply
Paul says:
September 5, 2015 at 2:36 am
Thanks James,
A very clear and concise explanation of how WT uses fear to control people. I too trembled when first searching the Internet. I downloaded Ray Franz book, and felt terribly guilty just doing that! I expected to read a demonic rant from a deranged bitter person and half expected that I would not get very far into the book before confirming this.
The truth was totally the opposite – what a modest, mild and cari g person he proved to be! Never once speaking harshly of those that treated him so badly. His book changed our lives. We went to just 1 meeting after that book, and during that meeting I was reading his second book on my iPad!
We have not been to a meeting since and we are so much happier as a couple and in ourselves, it is amazing… Hard to get over 60+ years of indoctrination, but so great to be free from fear and guilt.
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 5, 2015 at 9:45 am
Just remember all of this discredits them not God or his son. There is only one mediator between men and God. You know who that is and he doesn’t live in New York. Letter to the Colossians reminds us where true north is, if we ever get disorientated.
Reply
vivian says:
September 5, 2015 at 9:32 pm
Wow, and a huge congratulations and well wishes to the two of you!
Reply
vivian says:
September 5, 2015 at 9:39 pm
My grandparents became witnesses when they were new young immigrants to the US. They had many children and of course became very busy raising them. I believe had my grandmother been able to study in her native language, and had time to pause and access her beliefs would not be a jw today. All of their children and all grandchildren are deep into jw society. I want to ask her, but i am anxious about it, and she is in her 80s. Anyway, really its wonderful to hear a couple able to leave after so long indoctrinated, i know it took a great amount of strength and humility.
Reply
ForestDaughter says:
September 5, 2015 at 3:06 am
Excellent article.
When I left the org 24 yrs ago I still had those mental time-bomb fears for a very long time, with all the attendant problems of C-PTSD that went with it. It took a good 5 yrs or so to work through everything, but now that I’m free and mentally healthy I’m so incredibly glad that I’m able to say ‘better late than never’.
Articles such as this, along with all the resources we have at our disposal today can be such a lifeline and an eye-opener. Well done. :)
Reply
Chrissy says:
September 5, 2015 at 3:10 am
I’m a Cuurent Witness and yes I agree they work on the old premise of Fear just like the church has done.
If you sin , you will go to Hell!
If you do not serve Jehovah whole heartedly , you will not go through To the new system!
Sisters you must be in subjection to your husband along with all the other Bull Crap you read in the Insight book under Women.
Well I’m not going to conform to the 1940’s version they have of the ideal Wife. Next meeting, I’m wearing Pants!
Reply
EverydayExplorer says:
September 5, 2015 at 1:35 pm
Well done, Chrissy!
Respect to you.
Reply
Mellie says:
September 6, 2015 at 12:37 am
I’m also still attending meetings out of necessity. I hate the entire mysoginistic crap that goes on. I feel rebellious eveytime I hear the word ‘subjugation’.
Reply
John Baptist says:
September 6, 2015 at 4:43 am
Why not instead just don’t go anymore and wear your pants all the time without any fear?
Reply
Jorge Sanchez says:
September 5, 2015 at 4:05 am
Publicar en español , ayudaría a más de 3 millones.
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 5, 2015 at 9:52 am
Tiene que ser alguien como Lloyd, que se a capasitado a razonar con gente de mente cerrada sin ofender o llamar la atencion asimimo.
Reply
Jaak says:
September 5, 2015 at 4:25 am
My brother, sister and both parents are still in the cult.
I was never baptised so they can speak to me.
If I try to awake them and speak about the things I learned here and on other sites, they really look hurting.
After it I always feel bad and tell to myself that I can not do this anymore, it is all they have…
My brother wants to quit his job and start pioneering, so all I was telling him was instructed by Satan.
Thank God he will not avoid me.
Reply
Rowland Nelken says:
September 5, 2015 at 4:27 am
Great piece. It could be very effective. We know that active JWs read this site. It could reassure them and encourage them to junk the old money grabbing cult without fear.
Reply
John Plummer says:
September 5, 2015 at 5:47 am
Great article! As a child I too remember, “From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained” and its pictures of lions lying down with lambs in the restored earth-wide Garden of Eden. Ahhhh, how sweet…. how manipulative…. how deceitful!
Of course, at that time, Armageddon was coming “before the generation that witnessed the year 1914 passes away” so it was easy to be motivated and certain about how soon it would come. But now, thanks to Jehovah’s “increased light” we know that it’s coming before the generation that overlaps the generation that witnessed the year 1914 passes away! (I never did understand how this change in doctrine was an “increase” in “light”!)
The truly, “Good news” here is that by giving this latest Armageddon prophecy the stamp of “increased light” authority the Governing Body has signed its own death warrant. When this “overlapping” generation begins to pass away, as it most surely will, what then Jehovah’s Witnesses? I’ll tell you: either Jehovah lied, or the Governing Body lied – there will be no other possible conclusion – and either way, the religion will be finished… and the whole world will cry out in unison.. “Good Riddance”!!
Reply
al etheredge says:
September 6, 2015 at 3:03 pm
I don’t see it. People remained after the failed prophesies of 1914 and 1925. I left after the 1975 debacle, but many remained. No matter the extent of the lies leading up to it, an indoctrinated core will always accept ‘new light’ from the GB. This seems pessimistic, but it has been my experience.
Reply
ScotWm says:
September 9, 2015 at 11:04 am
RE: I don’t see it. People remained after the failed prophesies of 1914 and 1925.
The Governing Body appears to be composed of two distinct personality types: Those who are delusional, such as Anthony Morris III, and those who are compulsive liars, such as Stephen Lett and Geoffrey Jackson.
Cult members who are delusional remain because they actually believe what the Governing Body says. Other cult members remain because they are afraid of being left alone when they lose association with their family and all other cult members.
The result is a religion of the deluded and fearful obeying every whim of their deluded and lying leaders, despite a mountain of evidence that contradicts what they are being taught.
Reply
Garrett says:
September 5, 2015 at 6:33 am
Well written James! So glad to have you on the team. I loved the illustrations in The Paradise Book as a child. They do make you laugh now though because you see the 1950s mentality.
Men in the streets getting ready to rumble in suits! You know there must be conflict because their Bryll-Cream hair is coming un done.
Caption- “Why I outa give you a knuckle sandwich pal!” …”oh yeah! Well dat serves ya right Mac! POW! Right in da kisser!”
Reply
Renae says:
September 5, 2015 at 8:20 am
Thanks for this well written article, James.
I had to laugh when you wrote about your hand shaking as you clicked on a link. My first experience with “apostate” websites took place at the library, on my laptop, with my back in a corner so no one could see what I was viewing, and yes, my hand was shaking as I clicked on the website. Overcoming this fear has been incremental, but not passive. I’ve had to work at it. When I was out in the ministry one day, a man at the door asked me if I had read the Bhagavad Gita, or the Quaran. I had to admit I hadn’t. He then asked me how it was that I knew these other beliefs were wrong when I didn’t know anything about them. This conversation stayed with me for years, until the logic of it pushed me into obtaining copies of both the Gita and the Quaran. I’ll never forget the first night they were in the house. I was scared to death, due to the unholy literature I had brought into the house, that the demons would show up at any minute, even though I had already admitted to myself that I no longer believed what Watchtower was peddling. Throughout the night I had to keep telling myself I was safe; there were no demons. When at last morning came and there had been no visitors in the night, I laughed with such relief and yelled, “I knew it wasn’t true, I knew it wasn’t true!” LOL
I relate this story because it has always impressed on me how entrenched fear can be. It even seems to override head knowledge. If there is anyone reading this who fears information of ANY kind, sometimes that fear will never go away unless you turn into, just like a ship heads into a wave to keep from capsizing. Sometimes you just have to take fear on, and prove to yourself that the only thing to fear is fear of knowledge.
Reply
eyes opened says:
September 5, 2015 at 11:22 am
Hi Renae,
I really appreciate your illustration of a ship heading into the wave. Paints a good picture and makes the point.
Reply
ruthlee says:
September 5, 2015 at 8:56 am
dear james a good article very well written .fear really runs most of the sisters i encounter in fact i wonder if i stay because they need words of love and kindness this guilt trip is so damaging and i suspect some will never recover meanwhile when us longtime jws wake up its so daunting because time is so precious and we have this one life. funny thing jws so paralized with fear they dont do anything at all so they fear life now life and in the future and need bottle feeding to live. it really is a human tragedy i hope i live long enough to see the liberation of the innocent rl
Reply
Malachi says:
September 5, 2015 at 9:56 am
Nice article, good insight into the phobias that religious cults such as this thrive on. I gave up my beliefs in all this superstitious nonsense quite a while ago so I never really made the connection with the demon haunted world caused by hoards of demon being ousted from heaven and the fear that that induces. However I do remember growing up and being told that unless I was good I would be DESTROYED at Armageddon, the word ‘destroyed’ always spoken with an intensity that made it obvious that a simple death would be inadequate for anyone judged as wicked by god. Those pictures from the orange ‘Paradise’ book bring back fond memories :)
Reply
JWIntellect says:
September 5, 2015 at 9:58 am
Superb article!
“Life is difficult enough without adding on unnecessary anxiety brought on by fears not based in reason or evidence.”
You can say that again.
Reply
Exhausted says:
September 5, 2015 at 11:44 am
Hi James
This article really hit the nail on the head for me, as I
Was a pre-schooler when I learned to read out of that
Very book. I also grew up in fear of almost everything
Worldly, and as a result became very withdrawn. When
I finally did grow out of that, I turned to alcohol to calm
My insecurities that grew out of knowing that things
Were not right. I have been out for some time now,
But I still am haunted by fears and guilt that I am
Some awful person, while I know that is not really the
Case. Keep sending your message because it helps even
Us oldie Goldie’s who have been damaged emotionally
One way or another by this org.
Reply
Ted says:
September 5, 2015 at 1:57 pm
Drug dependency is a good analogy to describe the Satan phobia
James. Both are extremely difficult to get out of the system.
Many get clear of drugs in rehab only to succumb to the powerful
craving again when they go out into the real world.
Some who have left the demon obsessed cult have been drawn
back by some incident that they ascribe to these imaginary
entities. Maybe a picture falling off the wall or a realistic
nightmare.
A brother in our cong, faded for about two years, then he saw this
guy on TV bending spoons just by rubbing them, it scared the cr-p
out of him and he came scurrying back full of contrition for leaving.
As you indicate, there are plenty of real issues that demand our time
and attention without our lives being taken over by a superstition
riddled cult.
Reply
John Baptist says:
September 5, 2015 at 9:47 pm
Nicely written keep up the fine work you do. It is appreciated by many. It’s good to know the real “Truth” about things.
Reply
vivian says:
September 5, 2015 at 9:52 pm
They talk about “freeing” the African and whatever other cultures they say are entrenched in “spiritistic” religions/beliefs when the sect itself is propelled along by its own version of spiritistim. Really, so much power, recognition, and authority is allotted to ‘satan’ and his ‘demons’. When i heard a noise in the dark as a child i always firmly yelled , “Jehovah!” just as i had been taught. LOL a lot to that!!!! Well, it did help me get to sleep tho. Like counting sheep but better.
Reply
steve smith says:
September 5, 2015 at 10:05 pm
it’s interesting, this kind of fear mongering doesn’t stop with religion…. Governments all over the world use imaginary boogieman (terrorists are one example), when most people in the western world are more likely to be suppressed by their governments (or killed in the US), than by “terrorists”. Obviously those dealing in violence on either side are wrong, unless it’s self-defense, or in defense of the undefenable.
Reply
Meredith J says:
September 6, 2015 at 3:06 am
What a well written article for such a young man. I hope this might help those who are trembling to open the door and walk outside. Opening the door knob is the scariest part but once you are outside it’s not as bad as you thought and you haven’t been struck down. Life still goes on minus the Watchtower without all that personal study and all those meetings and all that witnessing. You can do the stuff that you always wanted to do. You become a normal person. You walked out the door to freedom. And the more knowledge you get about this cult, the more convinced you are that you did the right thing.
Reply
anonymous says:
September 6, 2015 at 3:39 am
Thank you James for such a good article! I also was so scared when I first started researching on the internet and I had to hide the fact that I was researching from my husband because I was so scared of him finding out what I was doing.
The first thing I saw on Wikipedia was that the Society had joined itself to the United Nations from 1992 to 2002 and I thought it had to be a lie and it led me to jwfacts and other websites and youtube videos etc. and finally I realized it was all true. That led me to ordering Crisis of Conscience and I only went to one more meeting after reading that book.
Now I can look on the internet and I don’t care if my husband is sitting right next to me at his computer and my hands no longer shake. It took me several months before the fear of Armageddon went away. For a long time the thought went through my mind “what if the Society is right about Armageddon?” but after a few months even that fear left me. Lloyd has a good video about that very subject.
Reply
Garrett says:
September 6, 2015 at 6:57 am
Anonymous.
I’ve often wondered like yourself if Armageddon could be true (lots of scientific evidence for the global flood) or if there is a God etc. When people ask me what I believe I simply don’t know . I only know what I don’t believe , starting with all the WT garbage.
I’ve traveled 50 countries and have many of the worlds religions up close. From the Baha’i in Haifa, the Jain on the streets of Katmandu, the Muslims at prayer in Zanzibar to the Buddhists in Bankok. I don’t believe ANY religion out there has the truth. I’ve not seen it anywhere. So I say to myself that I have done all I can do to search for truth and still come up empty handed. If there is a God out there, then he knows what Bars I hang out in. If he wishes to give me a tap on the shoulder while I’m drinking my creamy Blue Moon and buffalo wings and tell me what is really going on, then I will wipe chin and listen to what he has to say. Until then however, I have to say, God is quieter than Helen Keller with Boxing gloves on. I just don’t know . I’ll sit and watch and wait…..for another beer.
Reply
anonymous says:
September 6, 2015 at 7:31 am
Garrett, a really good movie to watch is Bill Maher’s movie Rigligulous where he traveled all over the world examining up close most of the world’s religions. If anybody reading this hasn’t seen that movie, I very much encourage you to rent it if you can.
Reply
Garrett says:
September 6, 2015 at 2:06 pm
Yes Anonymous.
I’ve seen Religulous. Love Bill Maher.
Better still is George Carlin.
Reply
anonymous says:
September 6, 2015 at 7:27 pm
Garrett, I loved the video of George Carlin’s take on religion and I also think he’s great. Thanks for posting!!
eyes opened says:
September 6, 2015 at 11:02 am
So much taught by wbts is said to apply to our day and because of that many fulfilled prophecies have been missed. And of course some are still looking for Jesus or waiting for him to receive full authority. I suspect Armageddon is one of those prophecies. There is no clear evidence when revelation was written, it is simply excepted that it was after 70 ce. There is scriptural support that the destruction of Jerusalem was likely Armageddon. The support also exists in the “works of Josephus” . Who could have been more babylonish than God’s chosen people who demanded the death of their own messiah. I don’t wish to be preachy, teachy so I’ll say no more. Anyone can research it if so inclined. If Armageddon has already happened then a lot of fear goes away, something wbts probably wouldn’t like.
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 6, 2015 at 8:25 pm
Really? Troll much?
Reply
RC says:
September 7, 2015 at 12:31 am
Try searching for Him within yourself. Who knows , you might find Him there.
Reply
Excelsior! says:
September 7, 2015 at 4:26 am
Garrett,
Please can you direct me to the scientific evidence for a world wide flood, circa 5000BC?
Is this a world-wide flood that covered every land mass?
Thanks
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
Garrett says:
September 7, 2015 at 5:21 am
Excelsior,
Yes. I can.
The following are all well documented.
1 Palm trees sheared off at the stump and flash frozen in the Antarctic.
2 Wooly mammoths flash frozen with vegetation in their mouths and their flesh is fresh enough to cut off, grill and eat.
3 An excavator who I know does digging in Alaska on projects. He said ” I can’t even tell you how many times I have dug up palm tree leaves.”
4 there is even a layer that geologists call the “flood layer by all the animalies they see there”
5 groups of non compatable animals in the same area in massive amounts as if they all sought shelter together from a common threat and died together.
6 flood legend is a common take in cultures around the world.
7 shells and marine life skeletons at the tops of mountains.
8 many reported sightings of the ark on Arafat and wood that was taken supposedly from it dates to the biblical date of the flood. Even the United States military through use of satellite imagery acknowledge that there is an “Arrarat Phenomenon” that they stop short of calling an ark.
And that is just off the top of my head Excelsior while laying in bed.
Worst part is that my George Carlin video link of him bashing religion got taken down. Sigh ….
Reply
anonymous says:
September 7, 2015 at 8:50 am
Garrett, according to Genesis 7:20, the flood waters covered the mountains with only fifteen cubits (22.5 feet) of water. Does that make sense to anyone? How could such a huge ark that the Bible describes possibly float in that little of water and how high were mountains when the water was only 22.5 feet deep?
All the things that you brought up that supposedly prove an earth wide flood are the things that I remember being told to us in the “Did Man Get Here by Evolution or By Creation?” published by the Society in 1967.
I believed all that stuff in that book and all those things sound just like they came out of a Watchtower publication but all of the things that you brought up don’t prove an earth wide flood to me. Floods happen in areas that is true, but was it an earth wide flood as the Bible says? That is the evidence I am looking for.
Nobody has found the ark yet. When somebody actually produces the ark, then I will believe it.
al etheredge says:
September 7, 2015 at 12:05 pm
Garrett, I encourage you to look at the flood story a bit more critically. Radiometric dates obtained from frozen mammoth carcasses indicate these deaths took place over a wide span of time. This does not correlate to a single flood event. I don’t know a single credible geologist who describes a worldwide flood layer, and I study geology so I pay attention to things like that. If you can provide a reference, I would appreciate it. The flood account itself poses many questions. I’ll provide a link that discusses some of them:http://ncse.com/cej/4/1/impossible-voyage-noahs-ark
To my knowledge, there is not enough water in the oceans, glaciers, underground aquifers, and the atmosphere combined to raise sea levels more than 400 feet above their current level. The biblical story of the flood is, at best, implausible.
Excelsior! says:
September 8, 2015 at 5:33 am
Garrett,
None of these is proof of a worldwide flood.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Garrett says:
September 7, 2015 at 1:50 pm
Actually,
I will challenge you ALL on these flood points. And No, I do not have an agenda religious or otherwise. I don’t have stock in seawater or a boat building company. You’ve not refuted one point I made here. As to the 15 civics the bible mentioned it was over the highest point. Everest if it was accurate. I’m sure you did study geology but I’ve seen numerous programs where the flood layer is discussed.
I’m still waiting for explanations from any one of you to explain how animal and vegetation can be killed and instantly frozen and preserved to this day. And not just in one area of the world but in Siberia, Alaska and Antarctica like I referenced.
Sorry… I wish there WASNT evidence of a flood but I have to be honest and say… Yeah…. It does have a fair amount of backing….
I’m waiting for your counter arguments….
Reply
Garrett says:
September 7, 2015 at 1:56 pm
Al etheridge…
I’ll read that link you sent … It looks interesting .
Keep in mind that radio carbon dating would be drastically influenced by pre and post flood conditions .
The laying bare of the sun wound complete squew those readings during that time. I’m very cautious and suspicious of radio carbon dating as it requires “all things being equal” it’s a rough tool at best .
Garrett says:
September 7, 2015 at 3:22 pm
Al
Just read the logic behind the points mentioned in your link. Pretty amazing. I’ve not heard most of those arguments ever. I don’t agree with all of them of course, especially in light of the Adjenda of the site “defending evolution” but there are too many arguments for them all to be wrong. Even as a witness I had many questions on the genetic aspects. According to the “kinds” and how we could today have so many varieties so quickly from a single pair. Didn’t jive.
There are many arguments that could be dismissed if one believes there was God behind it all orchestrating things that would otherwise be impossible.
It is an import point. Because if their assertations are true then you can throw away Jesus who believed that story, the bible and many other things.
I can see myself reading this again many times and researching counter arguments.
Thanks for sharing
Meredith J says:
September 8, 2015 at 5:16 am
I was watching a program recently called First Footprint and it was about the early aborigines in Australia. I was surprised that in their family history they speak about the Flood as a real event. They believe the evidence is clear.
al etheredge says:
September 8, 2015 at 6:23 pm
Hello Garrett, thanks for the reply. Please don’t think I consider myself an expert on this issue, I am only a college student studying geology. There is a lot of information online written by people with various agendas. Look through it with some discernment and form your own conclusions. I also do not object to the Bible’s account except when taken as completely literal. Different Christian denominations have different interpretations. One I recently came across was that the flood story was a metaphor illustrating the benefits of obedience for the Hebrews. Who knows? But it’s a thought.
Ted says:
September 6, 2015 at 6:33 am
Adam, God’s crowning earthly creation, whose genes have
been passed on to the worlds greatest scientists, philosophers
and intellects. Yet he didn’t have the nous to figure out that
snakes have neither a larynx or vocal chords.
Of course his genes have also been passed on to a lot of
idiots. To which group do those belong, who believe that
that fable has any connection to reality?
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 6, 2015 at 8:27 pm
You can’t see the forest because the trees are in your way. Is that really your dismissal of scripture?
Reply
Felipe says:
September 6, 2015 at 11:02 am
I am not interested in seeing this message displayed. I only want to suggest to you to correct “grizzly”. You meant “grisly”. An error free article will give you even greater credibility.
“First, he was subjected to a grizzly image of a child falling to her death.”
As I said before, this was a great article. Just don’t allow the reader to get distracted by misspellings. Or worse, don’t allow readers the slightest chance to use minor errors as an excuse to detract from the content.
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 6, 2015 at 8:29 pm
Yur abslutly rite bout dat. Signed, grammar Nazi.
Reply
Catalina says:
September 6, 2015 at 1:20 pm
James Strait, I like the point you made when you wrote apostates are consistently misconstrued as power-hungry maniacs who are seduced by the Devil into campaigning against the faith of “God’s people.” My father was an elder and he used to say to me, “let me do your thinking for you” when I asked questions he couldn’t answer. I was born in the ‘truth’ and I was inactive for 21 years. My brother told me he didn’t speak to me during that time because I wasn’t going to meetings. Now that I attend meetings I’m accepted by my family. The funny thing is I don’t like my family anymore. Now that they are talking to me and my eyes are open I see how manipulative and two faced they are. My sister uses JW literature to discourage her daughters from having children saying the end is near. I can’t resist, I give her a hard time. I asked her why she had kids. I remind her my parents used that same fear on her. Religion is based on fear to control it’s members. The members become two faced in order to do whatever they want. I don’t like them any longer.
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 6, 2015 at 8:49 pm
At the end of the day the problem is not with faith itself, but rather with the WT and your family. The behavior you described could only be practiced by people who claim faith, but have truly never read the Bible for themselves. They’ve read 100, 000 pages of literature about the Bible, but the Bible itself is a no zone for them, only to be ingested when cited in a magazine. Who needs to read and meditatibly study it, when you get the Idiots version in large dozes week after week. “Please tell me what I should think” is the dominant attitude. A direct result of no investment in education, from early childhood on. Why invest yourself in edumacation if college is a no no anyway. How can their ministry be of any use if critical thinking skills are never developed, the same that will cement their faith in Gods word after thuroughly studying it with a developed brain. The same that will keep people from wanting to jump out of windows during excruciatingly dull, read talks. The very thing that raises every red flag surrounding the organization when viewing it in the full light of Gods word. Sadly many people on here will show that they gave up on the organization because of what they’ve heard about it, which in the end makes them no better than the people they left behind. They’ll leave the organization as broken as it is, only to become willing sheep to idiotic athiest arguments that the source doesn’t even fully understand.
Reply
Idontknowhatodo says:
September 7, 2015 at 2:46 am
Robertperez.. You seem to be a person of Faith in the bible…I am not…and you seem to be very Judgmental of us who have now rejected it…using our critical thinking abilities…and accepted other beliefs…including atheism…I accept your right to believe what you want without belittling your ideals…I think you should show us all that same respect…many of us have gone through painfull experiences to reach our conclusions and come to this site to see we are not alone.
Reply
Excelsior! says:
September 7, 2015 at 4:34 am
Robertperez,
Oh dear! Here we go again!
Can you let me know what are the “idiotic atheist arguements” that have upset you?
Can you please explain this statement:
“Sadly many people on here will show that they gave up on the organisation because of what they’ve heard about it, which in the end makes them no better than the people they left behind”
I have interpreted this comment as stating that people who have left the Jehovah’s Witnesses because they have learnt about the many scandals and crimes, are no better than those still inside who perpetrate those scandals and crimes.
How is that the case? What do you think these people should be doing? What would be your solution?
I hope that you will be able to clarify your statement and answer my questions.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 7, 2015 at 8:58 am
I apologize if your offended, but those are loaded words. Neither those in or out are superior, the only difference is those of us out here have awakened, not from slavery to God, but mental slavery to ursurpers of Christ position as mediator between us and God and their cruel, twisted methods of keeping Christ(not their) sheep in line.
Reply
Excelsior! says:
September 8, 2015 at 5:27 am
Robert Perez,
You are entitled to your beliefs, sir. I am not going to try to change your mind.
I am an atheist, and that is how it is goi g to stay. I have plenty of evidence for my stance, just as you have for yours, sir.
We shall agree to disagree.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
GEM says:
September 6, 2015 at 11:18 pm
1 John 4:18… Perfect Love throws fear outside
Watchtower, like all “Religion”, feeds fear and dread to its adherents.
My own philosophy is the K.I.S.S. principle…..
Keep It Simple Stupid
Don’t throw Faith into touch because You fear men.
Reply
Ted says:
September 7, 2015 at 4:31 am
Robertperez,
Great to get your viewpoint, of which I support 100% your right
to believe in and to express. Your comments show that you
endorse reading the Bible and also the use of critical thinking.
Again I’m with you all the way, I left the JW org, 34 Years ago
and since then have read and meditated on that book over and
over, and in my desire to believe have bent over backwards to
give it the benefit of the doubt. Had I not read it I would probably
have still been a believer.
If only Adam had been endowed with critical thinking skills.
Think of all the cruelty, misery and pain that we could have all
been spared, God himself would have been spared the murder
of his own son, Satan would have been thwarted right there.
Robert, give me a sound reason to believe other than the crutch
of blind faith, which all religions rely on, and I’ll be eternally
grateful. Best wishes Ted.
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 7, 2015 at 8:44 am
My study of the Bible has gone beyond the Bible itself. Sitting in with numerous churches and studying diligently, not only two walls of books on faith( not a single WT amongst), but the origins of many of the worlds faiths and their common denominators amongst them. Thousands of written testimonies of contact with spirits, shared ancient stories of the great flood and the reset of humanity. The archeological evidence that backs up scripture. The working of God himself in those of faith regardless of what brand they push. I’m just waking up and groggy, but the list goes on and on. The point is I’ve also read a lot of the antithesis and there is a lot of undeniable and reasonable theories in evolution. Just as our understanding of our true origins is clouded, though we have a vague picture, there are missing links between everyone’s brain farts on the subject. As it stands there is a book whose explanation is much more reasonable and describes man perfectly, a book that has helped me have a happy, moral and full life. One that has made it abundantly clear to the vast majority leaving the WT (as people with faith) that it in itself guides us through our 70-80 years on Earth. As this is a site visited by people freeing themselves of those who make up the answers as they go along, we are sensitive to people who come on here to push recovering ex witnesses even further away from scripture.
Reply
Lawrence L. says:
September 7, 2015 at 6:47 am
Ted,if Adam & Eve hadn’t sinned,you & I probably wouldn’t have been born.
Reply
Lawrence L. says:
September 7, 2015 at 7:04 am
Children brought up to be an atheist/agnostic will find very little incentive/reason to follow all the good teachings of God/Jesus in the Bible.I shudder to imagine the kind of society we will have….
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 7, 2015 at 8:51 am
It is the only thing keeping the absolute vast majority of humanity from living a survival of the fittest life on Earth. The small and weak would absolutely live under the thumb of not the richest or brightest, but the fiercest and bloodiest. Any doubters of that need only study human history or read up on the real history of nations. The powerful would always exploite the weak, but on a global scale touching all corners of society.
Reply
Ted says:
September 7, 2015 at 9:23 am
Sin and redemption. Another religious scam that’s enabled
them to coil in billions and control the masses by fear.
Given religions record of intolerance and slaughter it can’t be
taken seriously as a model to follow in the matter of morals.
Obedience extracted under the threat of eternal torment or a
fiery death at Armageddon has little or no merit. Gentle Jesus
himself issued this uncompromising gun to head choice.
Are we facing near anarchy without belief in God ? Not at all,
Sweden is 85% atheist yet has one of the smallest homicide
rates in the world. Poverty, inequality, not lack of religious
belief are the causes of crime.
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 7, 2015 at 10:37 am
“From the Protestant Reformation in the 1530s until 2000, the Lutheran Church of Sweden (Swedish: Svenska kyrkan) was the state church. As of 2014, 64,6%[1] of Swedish citizens are members of the Church of Sweden, compared to over 95% in 1970, and 83% in 2000.[4]” and that isn’t counting all the other faiths. A simple fact check proved your numbers false. An agnostic is absolutely not the same thing as Athiest.
Reply
Ron says:
September 7, 2015 at 11:02 am
A great read, and so true. When our 1st stint of my young JW years , those pictures affected me age 7 in 1974. It works so well. The mind control and fear phobias are now so well known about more than ever. Even Clinical hypnosis. Rutherford was a Psychology student who used the model introduced my Freud from Charot in 1914. He stipulated that the meeting format should never be changed. Self reasoning and critical thinking no longer exist after a short while. Fear induced suggestion as well as loaded language works amazingly. I WT know this which makes the existence of this cult ever so much more sickening.
Reply
Ted says:
September 7, 2015 at 11:27 am
RobertPerez, Lawrence L.
Thanks for your comments. I’m sure you’ll agree it’s great
to have Cedars site, where we can engage with each other
without rancour.
Sometimes we agree and sometimes not, but our thoughts
are our own, as it should be, and not someone else’s, as in
the mental straitjacket method of, answering from a paragraph.
The fine articles presented here and the comments of everyone
help us to refine or even revise our opinions and beliefs.
Best wishes, Ted.
Reply
eyes opened says:
September 7, 2015 at 12:35 pm
Hi Ted,
I agree it’s great to have this site. My beliefs have undergone a lot of revisions. Some are not exactly mainstream either. This is a place I feel safe expressing myself.
Best Regards
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 7, 2015 at 12:48 pm
Agreed
Reply
Excelsior! says:
September 8, 2015 at 7:32 am
Ted,
Great comment! I couldn’t agree more. It’s so refreshing to be able to agree to disagree.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
Baby says:
September 7, 2015 at 11:44 am
it is the Bible that speaks of the destruction of ungodly men. it is not an imagination of WT
Reply
anonymous says:
September 7, 2015 at 1:59 pm
Baby, yes you are right and religions can use either the threat of being burned in hell or being killed at Armageddon to make people conform and support that particular religion. They all think they have the “truth”. That is because they only hear their side of the story.
Armageddon or hell fire are great tools tools, used by an awful lot of “Christian” religions. The thing is though, do people really need an organization or just the Bible?
Every church can interpret the Bible however they want to make the people afraid of not going to heaven when they die (or being destroyed by God at Armageddon) and the Watchtower is just like all the rest.
The only difference between those other religions and the Watchtower is that the Watchtower is organized to accomplish the work with eight million followers and so to all Witnesses, to them that proves it’s the only one true religion, doesn’t it?
They brag about it and that is supposed to prove to them that it’s the “truth”. But, that doesn’t prove anything, the fact that they are organized.
The proof in the pudding is, is what they are preaching really in the Bible or not? That is the most important thing. Not that they all preach the same message.
The message has to be from the Bible and if it’s from the Bible, then it wouldn’t be changing every time the wind blows in a different direction. God might work in mysterious ways, but that isn’t one of them.
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 7, 2015 at 3:04 pm
The Bible is pretty clear in Chapter 18 of Deutoronomy on how to go about identifying false prophets.
“‘If any prophet presumptuously speaks a word in my name that I did not command him to speak or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 However, you may say in your heart: “How will we know that Jehovah has not spoken the word?”22 When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then Jehovah did not speak that word. The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him.’
And we don’t fear them, time after time after time, they have given false prophecies and then twisted scripture in order to intimidate the not completely brain dead. Those were the closing words of the law in Moses time, but Christ himself in Revelations 22:18-20 in
the closing words of the Greek scriptures gives a more serious warning to people who presume to amend to what is written in the bible or dent what is written in it.
“I am bearing witness to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; 19 and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things that are written about in this scroll. 20 “The one who bears witness of these things says, ‘Yes, I am coming quickly.’” “Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.”
Reply
anonymous says:
September 7, 2015 at 4:52 pm
I am not saying that the Bible is something I believe in but what I am saying is that if the Watchtower uses as it’s “constitution” as Geoffrey Jackson said at that hearing, then the religion should be backed up by the Bible. If not, then it’s claim to be a “Christian” religion is bogus.
Reply
Excelsior! says:
September 8, 2015 at 7:36 am
Baby,
Welcome back!
The bible does indeed speak of the destruction of ungodly men.
The difficulty is that people disagree as to what being “ungodly” is!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
Bret says:
September 7, 2015 at 3:46 pm
The nice thing abou this article is that it can help more than just Jehovah’s Witnesses, it can also help those from other religions who use fear doctrines i.e. Hell fire, end of the world, so on and so forth. All religions use fear phobias to control the masses because quite frankly there is no other way to control and that’s exactly what man likes to do “Control”.
Reply
Catalina says:
September 7, 2015 at 4:19 pm
Robert Perez, I agree with you about my family not doing a good job at using their critical thinking skills. I’m very thankful for JW Survey. You guys are awesome. It’s taking me a long time to get my head unscrambled. Sometimes it’s like I know something without knowing it. I like James Strait article about how they use fear. My brother’s daughter (my niece) confessed to adultery and is now in good standing. My brother compares my niece to King David and Moses. My sister wont associate with her. My brother says anyone who doesn’t want to associate with her would have been swallowed up by the ground during bible times like in Moses day. My brother isn’t speaking to me because I called CPS (children protective services) on my niece for giving her nine month old baby red wine undiluted and beer from a beer bottle every day. We argued about it so I went to two elders for help. The elders told me ultimately it is her responsibility on how she raises her children. I called CPS. I’ve seen her six year old with slurred speach and staggering. My brother and his family aren’t speaking to me. I feel terrible. I have bad dreams. I would have felt worse if I had done nothing. It’s interesting my brother likes to say during bible times the ground would have opened up and swallowed anyone rejecting her.
Reply
EverydayExplorer says:
September 8, 2015 at 7:24 am
Catalina, for what it’s worth, I’m sure you did the right thing in calling the CPS. (I had to do a similar thing many many years ago, but was fortunate enough to have been able to insist on my identity being withheld.) Sending you my best wishes.
Reply
Excelsior! says:
September 8, 2015 at 7:39 am
Catalina,
Madam, you have my sincere sympathy.
You did the right thing by calling child protection services. That took courage and you should be proud of yourself.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
JBob says:
September 7, 2015 at 6:13 pm
Great article Mr. Strait. I find it ironic that the Watchtower blames those suffering anxiety and panics and phobias with needing more prayer and spiritual grounding. I recall sitting in a KH after coming to a realization that I was sitting in the middle of a cow pasture being served up as chocolate mousse and having a huge anxiety attack every week when the deceptions started spilling off the platform and the pages of the Watchtower.
The panic attacks ceased when I left, they returned when “kind” relatives insisted on dragging me to special talks and assemblies for revitalization (years ago). After unlocking the confidence in my ability to critique and reason, those attacks no longer occur if I stumble into a KH or browse the lit–it’s replaced by righteous frustration and anger that is no longer repressed.
I think at some point, in addition to the failed projections and outrageous statements from the speakers and publications, I realized this “boogeyman” was fake because of the popular practice of writing about something that is evil, yet the Watchtower’s own practices and structure placed it squarely in the same ballgame.
What this boogeyman phobia can do is generate some truly bizarre conspiracy theories or theories that changes within a denomination are satanic attempts to undermine the “true church” (this was used to “witch hunt” in the 1980’s–blaming the disastrous growth rate after 1975 failure on “the evil slave” among us).
It gives a canned response for any perplexing issues that take research, investigation and deep-thought solutions. Which leads us to the lazy JW syndrome, that syndrome of being thankful one doesn’t have to dig deep and research for the “facts” of the Bible or what has been hidden by the “corrupt churches”. What I’m finding is that if someone were standard Christian and not really digging in deep to understand faith icons and symbols meant, odds are they are similar as a JW. So, the nuances that we see, they really don’t see or understand. They only know to look at the clock on the wall and see 2:30pm not “how” the clock was made, or interest to take the back cover off the clock. To stretch this analogy further, they’re not bothered to compare their clock to a standard time measurement to determine if its ‘on-time’ or ‘off-time’. Think a sane person would want to know how decisions affecting their life are being reached, backing and reasons.
Reply
EverydayExplorer says:
September 8, 2015 at 7:19 am
JBob, your thoughtful words will give such encouragement to people reading JWsurvey who may well now be experiencing such disabling panic attacks as they start to acknowledge that inner voice of ‘something really not right’ within the JW faith system.
I respect your openness and compassion.
Reply
ScotWm says:
September 7, 2015 at 7:25 pm
While we are on the subject of fears, the Watchtower Governing Body appears to be fearful of losing even more of its remaining membership. JW Broadcasting for September 2015 has a 12 minute introduction which attempts to explain away the many problems associated with the new overlapping generation teaching. This is the generation that Jesus said would not pass away before the great tribulation began.
With absolutely no scriptural proof, Governing Body member David H. Splane says that 1914 is the year that saw the invisible return of Jesus and that this event could only be seen by Watchtower leaders who were of the anointed class. He then rattles off the names of a number of dead anointed Governing Body members who recognized the 1914 sign. Dead Governing Body members who came after the first group are then are claimed to be contemporaries of generation that recognized the sign. This teaching explains how the generation that saw Christ’s return can still be with us 101 years later and counting.
To top it all off, 9 minutes into the video, Splane produces a chart which illustrates “This Generation.” This chart explains how current latecomers, such as Splane and his fellow anointed Governing Body members, can claim to be part of the 1914 generation of which Jesus spoke. The only proof that we have that these seven members of the Governing Body are anointed is their word — which lately, doesn’t appear to be worth much.
From its start, this whole overlapping generation teaching has been a major stumbling block to those who still want to believe that the Watchtower is God’s visible earthly organization. Apparently, the Governing Body feels that having this false doctrine reiterated by an anointed Governing Body member will have a positive effect on those who harbor doubts. It’s obvious that the Governing Body fears many of its cult members are beginning to see through Watchtower lies and dishonesties.
http://tv.jw.org/#video/VODStudio/pub-jwb_201509_1_VIDEO
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 7, 2015 at 8:08 pm
Perfectly addressed, enough with the false manipulation of scripture.
Reply
Sister drifter UK says:
September 8, 2015 at 2:13 am
Please someone correct me if I have missed the point or misunderstood David Splane in the September broadcast.
Was he really saying that those anointed before 1992 were of ‘the generation’ and that it’s possible that Jehovah would continue to anoint in future generations and we would read about it in an updated Kingdom Proclaimers book?
I have always understood that there will be 144000 and when they die out the end will come as they will rule in the heavens over the earth.
Why would there continue to be an annointing?
Am I losing my marbles ?
Is it my age ?
Have I drifted so far everything is blurred?
Your comments please.
Reply
anonymous says:
September 8, 2015 at 3:44 am
Sister Drifter, yes, he said that Jehovah could continue to anoint in future generations. You are not losing your marbles. What I found interesting too is that he was talking about Fred Franz being alive at 1914 (crucial date) and saw the sign (invisible) and those who lived in that generation (contemporaries) (1914) were not going to pass away before the great tribulation. What I don’t get is how can people see something that is invisible????
His explanation was as clear as mud to me but it has to be like that for the rank and file to buy it. They will just think it’s over their heads and trust that the Governing Body wouldn’t lie to them to string them along.
Reply
Garrett says:
September 8, 2015 at 5:12 am
Anonymous,
David Splane had a real task on his hands. Trying to explain the unexplainable and trying to defend the indefensible . It looked like a fire man trying to put out the fire of London with a squirt gun. These guys know they are in serious trouble . I bet they just hope they die soon so they can make a hasty exit and leave someone else with the truck load of manure called “doctrines” for them to sell to the public as gold nuggets .
Reply
Bret says:
September 8, 2015 at 10:18 pm
I have long been asking the same question, “How can anyone see something invisible”?
I have another question with regards to an invisible presence. What about the two witness rule? Where are the TWO witnesses for this parousia?
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 8, 2015 at 6:08 am
It’s whatever the flavor of the week is, with loaded language as to confuse the unedumacated masses that fall for this. How hard is it to simply admit “we don’t know, we will wait on God as his son instructed. We will study Gods word together and wait on him to act as long as it takes.” Oh and the child abuse, mental abuse, abuse of power, abuse of Gods word, so on and so forth.
Reply
ScotWm says:
September 8, 2015 at 11:25 pm
RE: “JW Broadcasting for September 2015″, Sister drifter UK says: “Please someone correct me if I have missed the point or misunderstood David Splane in the September broadcast.”
David Splane is preaching to the choir. His explanation of the ever-expanding generation that would not pass away until the start of the great tribulation was intended to strengthen the faith of current cult members who may be questioning the validity of this core Watchtower teaching. The overlapping generation teaching claims that there are actually two generations; the first generation that recognized the sign of Christ’s presence and the second contemporary generation that overlapped the first generation.
The Watchtower’s 1914 date is carved in stone and cannot be changed without totally upsetting the entire Watchtower theology. The passage of time has totally invalidated the 1914 doctrine, so the “anointed” members of the Governing Body will need to tell bigger and bigger lies. They must keep trying to convince their followers that they are part of the generation that Jesus said would see all of the signs of his return and not pass away before the great tribulation.
RE: Sister drifter UK says: “Was he really saying that those anointed before 1992 were of ‘the generation’ and that it’s possible that Jehovah would continue to anoint in future generations and we would read about it in an updated Kingdom Proclaimers book?”
Fred “Stay Alive ’til ’75” Franz was Splane’s example of an anointed Watchtower leader who recognized the sign of Christ’s presence in 1914, but who’s earthly course ended in 1992. Splane said several times that some of these anointed 1914 observers may have lived beyond 1992. However, Splane also warned that contemporaries of Fred Franz, such as himself and his Governing Body accomplices, are getting up in years, so the great tribulation is close at hand.
In view of his previous statements on the matter, it is difficult to understand how Splane could envision non-contemporary anointed ones being needed on a paradise Earth after he and his current so-called contemporaries are gone. And of course these anointed ones appointed after the great tribulation would put a strain on the Watchtower’s maximum 144,000 of anointed ones.
Reply
James Broughton says:
September 8, 2015 at 2:35 am
Back in 1981 the Watchtower wrote “Persons who make themselves ‘not of our sort’ by deliberately rejecting the faith and beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses should appropriately be viewed and treated as those who have been disfellowshiped for wrongdoing” (15 Sept). If that is not mind control then I do not know what is.
Reply
Ted says:
September 8, 2015 at 5:15 am
So JHVH could keep anointing future generations, Scriptural Proof
anybody ! Give us a break ! Your just priming your worshiper’s
for an indefinite protraction of the generation fail. You should have
called it, not the “Overlapping” but the “Elastic Generation”,
One huge problem though, the elastic snapped about 50 years ago.
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 8, 2015 at 6:11 am
Elastic generation- I want a t-shirt
Reply
eyes opened says:
September 8, 2015 at 6:23 am
Since we’re talking about overlapping generations, why didn’t the “7” pick Methuselah? He overlapped with Adam and Noah, haha. As far as future anointing… The scriptures indicate that anointing was associated with something visible or audible, I.e. rushing stiff breeze, tongues of fire or speaking in tongues. They did not have to just accept someone’s word. The “gifts” ended when the last apostle died. I suspect anointing for heavenly life ended then as well. It’s a thought.
Best Regards
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 8, 2015 at 7:33 am
The miraculous gifts definitely ended with the last of the apostles, only those whom they placed their physical hands on could recieve it. We keep in mind that we are created in God the creatirs image, each and everyone of us. Our brains being our greatest gift from him. This remarkable gift capable of reasoning, logic, love, sence of justice, to scientifically observe and figure out everything around us and improve on it through our own ability to create is obviously part of his plan. Through our own God given gifts we will evolve, not just technologically, but in our principles and as humanity as well. This same gift is the one that screams run the other way when others try to stifle these God given gifts. In the case of the WT it is easy to just study up on lie after lie after ridiculous lie and just smile towards our future under no man, but our creator alone. I think ill visit the planetarium today.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 8, 2015 at 8:38 am
OH DAVID SPLANE!! As Matthew was talking about ‘THE GENERATION ‘ . WHY NOT USE A SCRIPTURE FROM The Book of MATTHEW???? SAY MATTHEW Chapter ONE verse 17. Where it says 14 GENERATIONS from ADAM to DAVID! Then 14 GENERATIONS from DAVID to the Deportation to BABYLON! Then 14 GENERATIONS from Deportation to Babylon to CHRIST !!! So Matthew describes a Generation perfectly which is the LIFETIME of a Person of that time period! Which in Jesus time was approximately 37 years from 33 C.E when Jesus uttered these words to 70 C.E. When Jerusalem was destroyed !
Even today most commentators will say a Generation is approximately 30 to 40 years !!
IF GENERATIONS OVERLAP then that is TWO GENERATIONS Especially when you are Talking of two 90 Year olds Overlapping like Fred Franz & Brother John Booth who died in 2010!! IT IS UTTERLY RIDICULOUS,But the F&D Slave have tied themselves into a Corner because if the System carries on for another 20 years then NEW LIGHT will have to Occur!!
Reply
OlderandWiser says:
September 8, 2015 at 9:54 am
My study of Jesus’ words indicate as you stated they applied to the generation he was speaking to and the destruction of Jerusalem fulfilled most of his words. It is entirely possible that his return to the earth was entirely separate and would come at a later time not linked to earthly Jerusalem…wouldn’t it seem logical that Jesus began reigning as King as soon as he was resurrected and has been “present” since then – NOT since 1914. If anyone knows world history all the things Jesus foretold have been going on for the past 2000 years and haven’t gotten worse just since 1914 in fact, overall historians say people are better off now than ever before. There are many statistics to back this up.
Reply
anonymous says:
September 8, 2015 at 11:30 am
Pickled, Splane was saying there were other things mentioned in Mathew 24 but he conveniently left out some of the other things mentioned in the context were that going to be false Christs and false prophets and rumors of wars and not to pay any attention to that and also nobody knows the day or hour, not even the son. Those things Splane never mentioned.
The song at the end about “smiling” is insulting. It’s like as long as you smile at somebody, you have done your good deed for the day. What about actually lifting a finger to help them out instead? No, the smile is supposed to lead to a conversation about the “Organization”.
I was always told that to give of my time to preach was more important than anything else like charity because it meant that they would get everlasting life which was a far greater gift to give to them. What it was really though, was a way out of helping people out with any kind of real charity or kind deed. That song was insulting to people who need any kind of real help. After all, for a person to “smile” doesn’t take any work and the motive behind the smile was to get a way to start indoctrinating them and make them think they might have a friend in them.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 8, 2015 at 6:04 pm
@Anonymous . I Agree & now I don’t give Anything in the contribution boxes for the last year! I now Give Money to PROPER CHARITIES such as HOSPICES!!
Bret says:
September 8, 2015 at 10:31 pm
To go along with that Job 42:16 says Job lived another 140 years and saw four generations of children and grand children. 140 divided by 40 = 35 yrs each generation. The Watchtower used Joseph and his brothers as an example of an overlapping generation but Joseph and all his brothers were born in Paddan-aram over a period of less than 14 years apart minus length of pregnancy and there is a difference at most of 13 years from Ruben (Oldest) to Benjamin (Youngest). That’s typical of any big family and is much different that Franz to Barr gap in age…
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 9, 2015 at 11:30 am
Watchtower Publication, after nothing happened in 1914- The Time is at Hand; 1915 pg 235
“As in the type that date three and a half years after the death of Christ marked the end of all special favor to the Jew and the beginning of favor to the Gentiles, so we recognize A.D 1881 as marking the close of the ‘High Calling’, or invitation to the blessing peculiar to this age to become joint heirs with Christ and partakers of the divine nature.” I doubt anyone calling themselves annointed today were around for that 1881 cut off.
Newer Comments →
Leave a Reply
Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *
Name *
Email *
Website
Comment
You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>
applications-education-miscellaneous.png
Comment posting guidelines:
Kindly observe the following requirements before posting any comments to our articles or pages:
◾ABUSIVE COMMENTS - Do not post comments that include swear words or may be considered abusive, lewd, blasphemous, obscene or threatening
◾ILLEGAL COMMENTS - Do not post comments that condone or propose illegal activity, or that breach copyright law
◾OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS - Do not post comments that are off-topic and bear no relation to the page or article
◾RELIGIOUS NEUTRALITY - Do not post comments that are evangelical in nature or may be construed as imposing one person's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) over those of another
◾LANGUAGE - Visitors from all countries and language groups are welcome. You may post comments in languages other than English, but we would appreciate if you could make any such comments brief. We would also be grateful if you could run any such comments through Google Translate and convert these to English, but this is not an absolute requirement.
◾LINKS - You may post links to third party websites, so long as (1) you limit these to 2 links per comment, and (2) the content on these links doesn't contravene ANY of the first four points. Specifically, you may not post URLs to websites that are evangelical in nature. Our links page has an extensive list of such sites for any who are curious about Christian beliefs in the context of Jehovah's Witnesses.
JWSurvey.org thanks all visitors in advance for respectfully observing these guidelines. Any who persistently fail to do so, despite warnings, may find themselves blocked from making further comments at the discretion of the site moderators, whose decision will be final and not open for debate.
Notify me of new posts by email.
Click on
Visit JWfacts.com for more information on JW beliefs
Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses
JW Recovery forum
Barbara Anderson's Watchtower Documents resource
Visit JWstruggle.com for helpful information on exiting JW mind control Visit TAZE.co for discussion on Jehovah's Witness developments
Support JWsurvey
Help us make continued improvements to this website and its content.
Article Categories
◾Apostates (28)
◾Blood transfusions (12)
◾Books (5)
◾Cedars' Blog (211)
◾Cedars' Story (4)
◾Celebrity JWs (2)
◾Child Abuse (51)
◾Child Indoctrination (16)
◾Divine Direction (4)
◾Domestic Abuse (2)
◾Doomsday Predictions (1)
◾Downsizing (7)
◾Evolution and creation (6)
◾General Information (1)
◾Governing Body (34)
◾Higher education (3)
◾History and scandals (6)
◾JW.org (8)
◾Life Stories (10)
◾Mental health (5)
◾Mini-Surveys (5)
◾News (191)
◾Property sales (5)
◾Publications (6)
◾Shunning (13)
◾Support (6)
◾Survey (11)
◾Undue influence (16)
◾Warwick headquarters (4)
Search JWsurvey
Subscribe to JW Survey
Enter your email address to receive notices of new posts by email.
Join 836 other subscribers
Email Address
Listen to JWpodcast
Check out the latest episode of JW podcast!
Latest John Cedars video
Popular JW sites in other languages
Languages
More languages...
Select... Croatian Czech Dutch Estonian Finnish 1 Finnish 2 French 1 French 2 French 3 German 1 German 2 Hungarian Italian 1 Italian 2 Italian 3 Japanese Polish 1 Polish 2 Polish 3 Portuguese 1 Portuguese 2 Romanian Russian 1 Russian 2 Russian 3 Serbian 1 Serbian 2 Serbian 3 Slovak Spanish 1 Spanish 2
Top Posts & Pages
David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
Following the "Return to Jehovah" release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
Following the "Return to Jehovah" release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
Links
Links
JW Broadcasting
JW Broadcasting
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
Videos
Videos
Key Articles
Is JWsurvey.org an apostate website?
What is the new light on the faithful slave?
Has Watchtower ever lied or withheld informatiion?
Open Offer
Open Offer to all bethelites
Do you work at Brooklyn, Patterson or Wallkill? If so, please click here.
Our Promise
Making corrections
Is there something incorrect or unfactual on this website? If so, please let us know and we will correct it.
2015 results at a glance
Number of respondents to the 2015 Global Survey
Site Stats
Visitor stats for JWsurvey
Like us on Facebook!
Cedars’ Twitter Feed
Who's Online
◾0 Members.
◾39 Guests.
Reader Comments
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾ruthlee on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
Menu
◾About JW Survey
◾Contact Us
◾Experiences
◾Get Involved
◾Global Surveys ◾2011 Global Survey
◾2012 Global Survey
◾2013 Global Survey
◾2014 Global Survey
◾2015 Global Survey
◾JW Broadcasting
◾JWawake.com
◾Links
◾Videos
◾Welcome
Login
◾Login
Scan JWsurvey.org
Copyright © 2011-2013 JWsurvey.org. Site design and support by The Small Web Master.
StatCounter - Free Web Tracker and Counter
http://jwsurvey.org/apostates/inducing-phobias-how-the-watchtower-uses-irrational-fears-to-solidify-membership/comment-page-1#comments
Skip to content
JWsurvey
Welcome
Cedars’ Blog
About JW Survey
Global Surveys
»
Videos
JW Broadcasting
Get Involved
Links
Contact Us
← Following the “Return to Jehovah” release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it) →
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
avatar
Posted on September 5, 2015
Fear plays a powerful role in cult indoctrination
Fear plays a powerful role in cult indoctrination
If I lay a plank across two overturned buckets, it should be simple to walk across it unharmed. If I take that same plank, however, and suspend it across an extremely deep and narrow chasm the walk across would be an entirely different experience. Even through both walks would be the same physical demonstration, mentally and emotionally they are dramatically different.
This is because of the way fear works in the brain. It has a tendency to overpower our logical faculties and, at times, create the very circumstances we are so fearfully avoiding.
When walking across a bridge over a deep chasm, for example, it’s best to avoid even looking down. Simply looking down could induce paranoia and compromise your ability to balance. Looking straight ahead and focusing on the task at hand is the best way to get safely across.
Jehovah’s Witnesses exist in an environment where fear is a prime motivator. In their world view 1914 marked the year when the earth was invaded by wicked spirit creatures cast down from heaven in huge numbers. They see the entire world population as deceived by those powerful spirit beings and on the path to a painful death that will bring about eternal destruction. Many do not challenge this narrative because doing so would immediately induce a state of fear and mental pain.
They claim that the only means of survival from these superhuman foes is in the protective arms of “God’s organization.” Only by listening to and obeying the information that comes out of “God’s channel” can you defeat the invisible demon hordes that allegedly riddle the planet.
Fear supply and demand
When attempting to market a product it is highly effective to convince customers it will save them from some looming catastrophe. Once you do that it is much easier to get them to make a commitment. Fear sells.
In the May 2015 JW Broadcasting episode hosted by Stephen Lett, a JW man recounted his experience as a child when he encountered one of the Watchtower’s books:
“When I was six years old my aunt, who’d just become a witness, she showed me this book. And there is a picture inside I remember so well: it’s of Armageddon. That scares a little kid, I thought, ‘I don’t want to be there.’ But a few pages later there’s a picture of a paradise. I never forgot it and I wanted to be there someday. So I thought, maybe my aunt has something. What have I got to lose? So I called them and said, ‘send over some witnesses.’”
This man’s experience aptly shows how Jehovah’s Witnesses successfully use fear to market to young and impressionable minds. First, he was subjected to a grizzly image of a child falling to her death. Then, once he is genuinely terrified of a painful divine execution, he’s shown a paradise earth. The fear-based marketing strategy was a total success and resulted in a life-long member.
Details from page 209 of the 1958 book "From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained"
Details from page 209 of the 1958 book “From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained”
The May Watchtower “study edition” has a duo of articles that follow the same exact pattern. The first article is all about how Satan and his demons are extremely powerful, cruel and malicious. They have the entire world in their hands and it’s impossible to face them alone. The very next article then quells the fear by asserting that success is possible by following it’s guidance.
The boogeymen
The May Watchtower mentioned above begins with the statement: “At one point in time, he [Satan] enjoyed a fine standing with Jehovah.” The statement alludes to a concept often repeated by Jehovah’s Witnesses on the podium and in their literature. They tell the story of how apostates come to be, and it often begins with someone who was a model religious figure; someone who was well respected.
The next sentence goes on to say that, at some point, Satan began to desire the worship of humans which sent him down the path of evil and enmity with God. It’s common for Jehovah’s Witnesses to accuse ex members who are activists as seeking glory for themselves. The way they describe the personality of apostates is reminiscent of the way they describe God’s greatest foe: Satan the Devil. They are clearly drawing a parallel.
Activists who expose the Watchtower have to deal with a constant stream of slander and disinformation. They are consistently misconstrued as power-hungry maniacs who are seduced by the Devil into campaigning against the faith of “God’s people.” Apostates are the boogeymen and are to be avoided at all costs.
The May article makes sure to tell readers that, without divine help, there is only failure in the fight against the Devil and his minions:
“Never underestimate the power of such wicked angels or that of ‘the ruler of the demons.’ Without help from Jehovah, we could never win our fight against Satan.”
This narrative helps retain membership, because it uses the idea that if you ever leave you’re basically demon fodder. In the world of the Watchtower, if you ever leave your peers will consider you someone who has willingly embarked on a suicide mission.
Phobia Induction
Destructive cults use phobias to control people and create dependency.
It’s similar to the way substance abuse works. Once addicted, a person will not be able to see themselves in a substance-free life. The very prospect is just too terrifying, because they have developed a severe dependency. Similarly, members of cults are guided into believing that without the aid of the cult only failure and misery await. This makes the first steps of leaving extremely difficult, which ensures that many will simply give up and stay.
In the beginning of my awakening, about 6 years ago, I sat down at my computer and used a search engine to research Jehovah’s Witnesses. I remember experiencing intense fear when I read through the results, because many of them were obviously critical of the religion. I distinctly remember my hand trembling as I moved my mouse and clicked on a link.
This is a perfect example of how my past religion induces phobias in its membership. I was extremely afraid of a website written by someone critical of the Watchtower. I had been conditioned to believe that anything critical was written by evil, power-hungry drones of Satan. It was quite some time before I was able to get past that entrenched fear and really start looking into the religion honestly.
Frankly, leaving was the best thing that ever happened to me. It enabled me to start a whole new life unencumbered by past irrational fears. Life is difficult enough without adding on unnecessary anxiety brought on by fears not based in reason or evidence. Looking back, I can safely say that nothing Watchtower predicted took place. It was all just a bunch of fears that were put into me instead of originating within me.
If you or someone you love suffers from irrational fears brought on by cult indoctrination, there are resources available to help. There are also many people out there going through the same experience in various stages. We are not alone and the feelings we experience are a natural occurrence of the undue influence we were subjected to.
Recovering from cult indoctrination is an incremental process and involves a sizable amount of perseverance. Let’s walk across this chasm safely and together. Just try not to look down!
new-james-signature
Share this:
in
Share
.
.
Like this:
Bookmark the permalink.
← Following the “Return to Jehovah” release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it) →
127 Responses to Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
← Older Comments
A Patient Man says:
September 8, 2015 at 12:42 pm
Hello, I am a first time contributor! I work hard at being a patient person, I think I inherited this quality from my father, a quiet man but very strict. Like many of you I was raised as a witness, there was not much praise at all from my parents for a job well done, but there was plenty of discipline either with the hand or a belt, and also plenty of restrictions from doing stuff that kids like to do. Thus begins the cycle of fear. And then comes the intimidation and guilt. These three things, fear, intimidation, and guilt were used quite skillfully by my parents and others in my life that had more responsibility or power over me, and quite honestly I had very little power and responsibility. I am using my patience to slowly remove myself from this element of fear within this organization. I still have some elderly members of my family that I am caring for and that includes taking them to assembly days and other meetings. This brings me to a story which will illustrate how fear is used by many. At an assembly day I was quietly sitting during a break and close by a father was disciplining an eight or nine year old boy. This is what this father said to this youngster and I will never forget it, “Jehovah is not very happy with you today”. It is tough enough to be a kid today and now you have the greatest personage in the universe mad at you! So the cycle of fear begins for this young man, if it hadn’t already. How many hundreds of thousands of people can repeat this story from their youth including myself? It is for this reason and a hundred other very good reasons that I will eventually be completely gone from this madness, a quiet patient man.
Reply
Garrett says:
September 8, 2015 at 3:35 pm
To patient man,
RUUUUNN!!!!
Personally I’d leave like the house is on fire but that is me.
Congratulations on your first post and welcome from all of us.
Best wishes
Garrett
Reply
Catalina says:
September 8, 2015 at 10:06 pm
Welcome Patient Man, From what I read from your post I believe you have a lot of love in your heart. That’s why In the long run I think you’ll have peace after your loved ones are gone. I also think you sound unselfish and intelligent. I’m learning my family is mindless. I don’t want to lose my sister so I keep her happy. I attend meetings so I wont be shunned. She shunned me for 21 years until I returned to meetings. I want to have family.
Reply
John freeman says:
September 13, 2015 at 1:31 pm
I am fading but still take wife to meetings also most of my family are in. So at present i feel i need to move slowly . However i have told my wife of my feelings that i no longer trust the G B . She also feels somthing is wrong . It is hard for us with lots of family in i would like to leave . Have been in since 60s have been aware something wrong for years. But am now fully awake . I find it difficult noe to put up with sitting thru meetings
Reply
Jake says:
September 8, 2015 at 12:45 pm
Boy is Splain creepy or what. Glad I didn’t have him as a babysitter!
Reply
Catalina says:
September 8, 2015 at 1:55 pm
At the beginning of the September video brother Splane said a baby who lives for ten minutes after birth isn’t apart of a generation. If brother Splane was really an anointed one by God he wouldn’t say that. His reasoning isn’t right. The GB make up these things as they go along.
Reply
anonymous says:
September 8, 2015 at 3:42 pm
Something else that was so insulting about that talk is that every single one of those “faithful” anointed were all men. Not one single anointed female????
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 8, 2015 at 5:59 pm
@Anonymous. YOU ARE SO RIGHT ! Where is their a mention of FEMALE ANOINTED JOINT HEIRS with Christ? The GB Are 7 MALE SEXIST Organisation keeping poor women in subjugation just used for pioneering to increase Baptised ones who can DONATE MORE for Their LUXURIOUS PROPERTY & PUBLISHING EMPIRE!
Reply
ScotWm says:
September 8, 2015 at 11:53 pm
RE: “Something else that was so insulting about that talk is that every single one of those “faithful” anointed were all men. Not one single anointed female????”
The Watchtower’s Silver Sword bible says in Judges chapter 4, verse 4:
“Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time.”
If a woman could be a prophetess AND a judge of Israel, it is obvious that the Watchtower has not shown women proper respect.
Reply
Ted says:
September 8, 2015 at 6:02 pm
People generally adopt the beliefs of the community they live
In. Ghana for instance is steeped in spiritism, people born
disabled are thought to be sent by bad spirits and there’s
money to be made by the usual frauds claiming the power
to cure these poor unfortunates.
Again with the usual predictable failure. In the end the sick
children are “sent back to the spirits” which involves ritual
killing, which also costs money.
A far cry from the JW community you may say, well not all
that far. A woman in our cong, territory contacted in the door
work who suffered from schizophrenia was told her illness
was caused by the demons, She was so distressed she sent
for the police, and the circuit o, had to be called to try and
soothe the situation. And that wasn’t an isolated incident.
True it was the fault of individual brothers, but we know the
grip that demonology has on the JW worship’ers , how it
controls their mind, and holds them in fear.
Reply
Wip it says:
September 8, 2015 at 6:10 pm
We now have efpos machines (terminals) at the assembly hall, once back at the KH a brother was joking and asking when are we going to get them, i laughed & said how close are we to passing the plate?
Reply
Wip it says:
September 8, 2015 at 9:28 pm
I started having real doubts when the new teaching of the generation came in, as i was one of those who had hoped for the end since 1975, & we all used to try to calculate the length of the generation, then a good friend said had i ever studied 607, outside the org, when i did this through books not the internet then i was really starting to smell a rat, i then read the book, crisis of C, more eye opening, but alas the fear is still their & i have a family & friends who are all in & i don’t want to loose my family/friends, so i have become a fader, this site is great as i can talk & listen to like minded ones, i have seen my Parents die, & WATCH OTHER OLDER ONES DROP OF, at funerals you hear a common comment, are well they didnt get to see the end but they are their now, its up to us to get their too, well i am in my 50’s & guess what the next 20 are going to come & go fast. thats if we don’t get sick, the elders here are all older men, no new blood is aloud into this club, so they need to change if they want this to continue.all i know is this, Jesus was not talking in riddles, he said generation not plural, & God is not cruel, my mother died a cruel death with cancer & even begging god to help her die.
Reply
anonymous says:
September 9, 2015 at 2:30 am
@Wip it, I remember counting down the months until 1975 and I was so scared but the reason I was looking forward to it is because my JW husband was a wife beater and I was sure Jehovah was going to kill him at Armageddon and then all those people at the Kingdom Hall would know what I was going through at home.
I remember at the time there were so many people flocking into the Organization and the thought went through my mind, why would God kill everyone on earth that wasn’t a JW when if He left it go longer, the whole world would be converted? I made a comment like that and I was shot down like I had committed the unforgivable sin since it was a “Fact” that the big A was coming in 1975. I remember you couldn’t even suggest that it wasn’t coming in 1975 or you’d be shot down. I remember it like yesterday. Then it didn’t come in 1975 and I thought “just like in the days of Noah, any time when you least expect it” and that went on all these years. My husband stopped beating on me, but he’s still not a person I would have chosen, had I known what he was really like “before” I married him.
I also remember in those days that nobody was even allowed to go to vocational school or else you were considered materialistic. If you wanted an office job, people had to take classes through the mail “on the sneak”. My husband tells me that it’s not true and that the Society never said you couldn’t go to vocational school or college and I agreed. Yes, the Society never said you couldn’t go to college or you can’t vote or you can’t celebrate your birthday or salute the flag, but it’s always been in the publications that if you did, you were materialistic or not neutral and so most people went along because it was an “unwritten” rule, just like women not wearing slacks or men wearing beards and shunning and not taking your brother to court.
The Society also discouraged having kids and when we had kids, a lot of people looked down on us but a lot of them followed along with the not having kids and pioneered and they are now old without any family. I feel sorry for them.
When these older people die, they have the slogan “they took the underground route”. The Society has an answer for everything.
It’s been 100 years since Jesus began ruling “invisibly” in heaven and Satan was thrust down to the earth. My question is: If Jesus is ruling in heaven, then why is he allowing Satan to rule the earth????? Is it because Jehovah is patient because he doesn’t want anybody to die? Anybody can take the Bible and use it to spread their religion. Any scripture they want is in there and it’s all fear. That is what kept us in there and it works.
It took me several months of learning about all the lies from the Society to lose that fear. Preaching the Bible might seem like it’s what distinguishes the “truth” from other religions, but the message can’t be lies. If it’s lies, then it’s not the “truth”. So, then what good is it to preach, if it’s not the truth????
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 9, 2015 at 8:59 am
“- Preaching the Bible might seem like it’s what distinguishes the “truth” from other religions, but the message can’t be lies. If it’s lies, then it’s not the “truth”. So, then what good is it to preach, if it’s not the truth? –”
I’m keeping that one, and for the record I will not stop my preaching I will just concentrate on using the bible exclusively without the agenda thumping books or tracts.
Reply
eyes opened says:
September 9, 2015 at 9:57 am
Hi Robertperez,
My husband and I do informal witnessing, Bible only. For obvious reasons it could be a bad idea to go with a group. We too have issues with the literature. If I can’t explain something “spiritual” with the scriptures I’m not going to teach it.
It’s nice to know there are a lot of us in the same boat.
Best Regards
Reply
rob says:
September 9, 2015 at 8:21 am
Control by using fear
Control by using man made rules
Control by using individuals as watchdogs
Control by using shunning
Witness religion has it all worked out.
Reply
Ted says:
September 9, 2015 at 8:52 am
I watched a you tube video, “Family Night at Bethel, with joe and
Barb Anderson.” It featured an interview with Barb’s family and
it was very absorbing. It wasn’t about demonism but there were
a couple of references to it, and from the audiences responses
it was plain the Bethel family believe such invisible malevolent
creatures are working their mischief down here.
There was also an experience involving a “worldly” man who had
given a couple of brothers a hard time but came to regret it as he
began to have many problems in his life thereafter. The inference
was, that this time it was JHVH who was handing out payback.
The audience seemed delighted at that thought.
Here again we see the black and white cult mentality, good= JHVH,
bad= Satan and the demons, if only life was that simple to figure.
My permanent bad lungs tell me I’ve more to fear from invisible
bacteria than obscure and imagined entities.
As many are aware Barb Anderson left the org, that she had given
a great deal of her life to, one of the main reasons being , the
callous mishandling ( My words) of child abuse. She now actively
campaigns on behalf of children. Like many others who have left,
the org, the unjust and cruel sanction of family shunning has been
imposed on her.
Again it’s apparent that “Righteous” men inflict more misery on
people than any invisible demons.
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 9, 2015 at 9:16 am
They went from the well intentioned Russlelites, clueless Rutherford followers to just outright sinister persecutors of those who dare to stand for the truth found in Gods word. I can just imagine these elders faces when they tell Christ, ” we were just following the manual”, and he responds, “which one?” I lay the bulk of the child abuse problem on the elders, who put aside Gods word, his very specific instructions in order to worship at the altar of organizational theocracy. Even in the weekly bible reading of two to three chapters where your supposed to comment on what you found helpful or inspiring it is forbidden and enforced by the elders to use your own words. You are supposed to research an old WT publication and quote what IT says about those chapters. Absolute ursurpers. The programming is intended to dissuade the masses from reading Gods word and resort straight to the WT agendad publications. After decades I am absolutely convinced that the friends are the least knowledgable in Gods word, it has been nothing but a stumbling stone for them when forced to see it through WT goggles.
Reply
Garrett says:
September 9, 2015 at 5:17 pm
Robert. I couldn’t agree more.
If God exists , then the Governing Body are as dead as door nails. They can wash their hands till the skin peels off but the blood guilt and responsibility for all they have done will not come off.
As for the elders, what excuse can they give? Like the Nurenburg trials, as you put it, what defense can they make?
” I was only following orders” didn’t wash with that trial…. And I don’t think it would wash with an intelligent loving creator either. Perhaps they will have a cyanid tablet ready like Goering before the celestial hangman gets him.
Reply
Excelsior! says:
September 10, 2015 at 8:28 am
Why is it always religious people who revel in violence and revenge?
I thought that your God forgave sins? Surely the governing body could repent and have their sins forgiven, or is the Sacrifice of Jesus and His Forgiveness of sins denied them?
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
Mc fan says:
September 10, 2015 at 3:25 am
Why am I blocked?
Reply
← Older Comments
Leave a Reply
Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *
Name *
Email *
Website
Comment
You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>
applications-education-miscellaneous.png
Comment posting guidelines:
Kindly observe the following requirements before posting any comments to our articles or pages:
◾ABUSIVE COMMENTS - Do not post comments that include swear words or may be considered abusive, lewd, blasphemous, obscene or threatening
◾ILLEGAL COMMENTS - Do not post comments that condone or propose illegal activity, or that breach copyright law
◾OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS - Do not post comments that are off-topic and bear no relation to the page or article
◾RELIGIOUS NEUTRALITY - Do not post comments that are evangelical in nature or may be construed as imposing one person's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) over those of another
◾LANGUAGE - Visitors from all countries and language groups are welcome. You may post comments in languages other than English, but we would appreciate if you could make any such comments brief. We would also be grateful if you could run any such comments through Google Translate and convert these to English, but this is not an absolute requirement.
◾LINKS - You may post links to third party websites, so long as (1) you limit these to 2 links per comment, and (2) the content on these links doesn't contravene ANY of the first four points. Specifically, you may not post URLs to websites that are evangelical in nature. Our links page has an extensive list of such sites for any who are curious about Christian beliefs in the context of Jehovah's Witnesses.
JWSurvey.org thanks all visitors in advance for respectfully observing these guidelines. Any who persistently fail to do so, despite warnings, may find themselves blocked from making further comments at the discretion of the site moderators, whose decision will be final and not open for debate.
Notify me of new posts by email.
Click on
Visit JWfacts.com for more information on JW beliefs
Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses
JW Recovery forum
Barbara Anderson's Watchtower Documents resource
Visit JWstruggle.com for helpful information on exiting JW mind control Visit TAZE.co for discussion on Jehovah's Witness developments
Support JWsurvey
Help us make continued improvements to this website and its content.
Article Categories
◾Apostates (28)
◾Blood transfusions (12)
◾Books (5)
◾Cedars' Blog (211)
◾Cedars' Story (4)
◾Celebrity JWs (2)
◾Child Abuse (51)
◾Child Indoctrination (16)
◾Divine Direction (4)
◾Domestic Abuse (2)
◾Doomsday Predictions (1)
◾Downsizing (7)
◾Evolution and creation (6)
◾General Information (1)
◾Governing Body (34)
◾Higher education (3)
◾History and scandals (6)
◾JW.org (8)
◾Life Stories (10)
◾Mental health (5)
◾Mini-Surveys (5)
◾News (191)
◾Property sales (5)
◾Publications (6)
◾Shunning (13)
◾Support (6)
◾Survey (11)
◾Undue influence (16)
◾Warwick headquarters (4)
Search JWsurvey
Subscribe to JW Survey
Enter your email address to receive notices of new posts by email.
Join 836 other subscribers
Email Address
Listen to JWpodcast
Check out the latest episode of JW podcast!
Latest John Cedars video
Popular JW sites in other languages
Languages
More languages...
Select... Croatian Czech Dutch Estonian Finnish 1 Finnish 2 French 1 French 2 French 3 German 1 German 2 Hungarian Italian 1 Italian 2 Italian 3 Japanese Polish 1 Polish 2 Polish 3 Portuguese 1 Portuguese 2 Romanian Russian 1 Russian 2 Russian 3 Serbian 1 Serbian 2 Serbian 3 Slovak Spanish 1 Spanish 2
Top Posts & Pages
David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
Following the "Return to Jehovah" release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
Following the "Return to Jehovah" release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
Links
Links
JW Broadcasting
JW Broadcasting
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
Videos
Videos
Key Articles
Is JWsurvey.org an apostate website?
What is the new light on the faithful slave?
Has Watchtower ever lied or withheld informatiion?
Open Offer
Open Offer to all bethelites
Do you work at Brooklyn, Patterson or Wallkill? If so, please click here.
Our Promise
Making corrections
Is there something incorrect or unfactual on this website? If so, please let us know and we will correct it.
2015 results at a glance
Number of respondents to the 2015 Global Survey
Site Stats
Visitor stats for JWsurvey
Like us on Facebook!
Cedars’ Twitter Feed
Who's Online
◾0 Members.
◾38 Guests.
Reader Comments
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾ruthlee on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
Menu
◾About JW Survey
◾Contact Us
◾Experiences
◾Get Involved
◾Global Surveys ◾2011 Global Survey
◾2012 Global Survey
◾2013 Global Survey
◾2014 Global Survey
◾2015 Global Survey
◾JW Broadcasting
◾JWawake.com
◾Links
◾Videos
◾Welcome
Login
◾Login
Scan JWsurvey.org
Copyright © 2011-2013 JWsurvey.org. Site design and support by The Small Web Master.
StatCounter - Free Web Tracker and Counter
http://jwsurvey.org/apostates/inducing-phobias-how-the-watchtower-uses-irrational-fears-to-solidify-membership#comments
Skip to content
JWsurvey
Welcome
Cedars’ Blog
About JW Survey
Global Surveys
»
Videos
JW Broadcasting
Get Involved
Links
Contact Us
← Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
Posted on September 10, 2015
David Splane grapples with the "overlapping generation" teaching in a new video
David Splane grapples with the “overlapping generation” teaching in a new video
The September JW Broadcasting episode is now available on tv.jw.org, and for any avid follower of goings-on at Watchtower this month’s offering from the ‘faithful and discreet slave’ is a must-watch.
Governing Body member David Splane addresses his audience on one of the many subjects best swept under the rug by Watchtower – the incomprehensible “overlapping generation” teaching.
Simply put, this teaching (which first appeared in the April 15, 2010 Watchtower) is a hastily-contrived get-out-of-jail-free card for the failed 1914 “this generation” teaching.
For decades Watchtower publications insisted that Armageddon was imminent because, they argued, the generation of anointed Witnesses (who believed they were going to heaven) who witnessed and understood the events of 1914 would not die out before Armageddon arrived.
This claim was based on Matthew 24:34, where Jesus told his followers that the generation that witnessed various apocalyptic signs would not die out until all his words, including the “great tribulation” (the prelude to Armageddon), came true.
So certain was Watchtower of this claim that it even had it included in its masthead for the Awake! magazine…
awake-page-4-generation-masthead-oct-1995-tn
That is, until they quietly changed the masthead to read as follows…
awake-page-4-masthead-nov-1995-tn
Increasingly it became obvious that Watchtower’s self-imposed time limit on Armageddon had expired, because too much time had passed since 1914 for there to be any survivors among Jehovah’s Witnesses old enough to have memories of the outbreak of World War I. In fact, at the time of writing in September 2015, only 50 individuals older than 110 years old are known to still be alive.
“New light” was called for, and in 1995 and 2008 the organization made various stabs at squaring the circle. Paul Grundy has done a great job of documenting these fluctuating “understandings” on his JWfacts resource.
The most recent solution, as proposed by Watchtower in 2010 (and regurgitated by Splane in the above clip), is to essentially embellish Jesus’ words by suggesting that “this generation” doesn’t have to be just one generation, but can be two.
The first “group” of “this generation” would witness and understand the events of 1914, and the second group would be those who were born before the last individuals in the first group died (hence an “overlapping” generation).
If you don’t understand this, it is not due to any failure on your part. It is because it doesn’t make sense. The teaching rides roughshod over the English language, redefining what “generation” means, and relying on the audience to willfully bypass their logical thinking skills by asserting the incomprehensible as indisputable truth.
After all, if you can arbitrarily insist that a generation can be composed of two groups, why not have three, four, five – on into infinity? The word “generation” quickly loses all meaning.
The wisest course of action for Watchtower would have been to either distance itself from the “overlapping generation” teaching as a well-meaning slip-up (perhaps by arguing “this generation” was figurative rather than literal), or ignore the matter altogether.
Instead, the Governing Body apparently concluded that a 12-minute video presentation rehashing the teaching, complete with diagram and stick pointer, was just what the doctor ordered.
Their mistake is an inevitable byproduct of their delusion and bullish devotion to their own contrived dogma. It is, to my mind, further proof that the Governing Body are not cynical con-men but really do believe their own nonsense – and expect us to believe it too. Otherwise, they would have steered clear of the subject entirely, and spoken about something more compelling and universally appealing.
In addition to this obvious faux pas, I am also delighted at David Splane’s performance, which wreaked of cheesiness and insincerity…
As a side note – Splane is among three Governing Body members (together with Herd and Losch) who have apparently opted to deliver their JW Broadcasting episodes alongside “helpers” from the various Governing Body committees. The other Governing Body members (Lett, Morris, Sanderson and Jackson) tend to appear by themselves. I can’t help but question Splane’s decision to appear with a co-host, since he is in my view one of the more competent, persuasive speakers on the Governing Body. His uneasy interactions with his co-host only serve to undo the forcefulness of his individual presentation.
A costly mistake
When JW Broadcasting was first announced 11 months ago I said at the time it was great news. The worst thing the Governing Body could possibly do was reveal themselves to their doting followers. It is far easier to respect and admire your leaders when you can’t see or hear them. Having them thrusted at your TV screen or computer monitor in all their bumbling, arrogant, senile, jewelry-flashing glory changes the whole dynamic.
Yes, we have seen some extremely potent pieces of indoctrination designed to pull on the heart strings and appeal to people’s emotions. The standard episode will feature at least one visually appealing interview segment with powerful imagery and stirring music, in which a loyal Witness tears up as he or she relates how Jehovah’s hand has come to their rescue against all odds.
I will continue to do my best to expose these clearly coercive methods in my JW Broadcasting rebuttal videos. But I am growing increasingly confident that to any sincere, intellectually honest Witness capable of rudimentary reasoning skills, no rebuttals are needed. The delusion, absurdity and self-indulgence speaks for itself.
new-cedars-signature3
To see a list of video rebuttals to JW Broadcasting episodes, click here.
To read the JWfacts page on changes to the generation teaching, click here.
Share this:
in
Share
.
.
Like this:
Bookmark the permalink.
← Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
264 Responses to David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
Newer Comments →
Kat says:
September 10, 2015 at 3:33 am
please exsplane
Reply
Excelsior! says:
September 10, 2015 at 7:51 am
Kat,
You made my day with that wonderful pun!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
Rowland Nelken says:
September 10, 2015 at 3:39 am
There have been court cases and govt. pronouncements in Russia recently in attempts to restrict the ministry of JWs in this country.
Despite this, when I click on the JW Broadcasting link, here in Moscow, I receive the full array of glossy and expensive JW stupidity complete with Russian text and Russian dubbed vids.
Reply
dontknowwheretogo says:
September 10, 2015 at 3:46 am
I completely agree with you on that they believe 100% that they are chosen by God…they are full-in…as Don Cameron says in his excellent book “Captives to a Concept” they are held captive to the concept that they are 100% chosen by God thus WHATEVER explanation or doctrine they produce has God’s backing, period.
Delusional or what.
As a side note on the many discussions going on about this on various forums the overlapping generation explanation given by Splane with charts that include Freddy Franz is interesting in that it cites 1992 as the cut off for the first group.
Splane also says ALL current GB members are part of the second group that overlapped Franz thus Mark Sanderson, at age 50, is part of the second group thus he must have proclaimed being anointed prior to 1992.
And if they teach that the Big A will come in the second group’s lifetime and IF Mark Sanderson lives to 80 or 90 then the Big A can be another 30 to 40 years away without the GB having the need to change the current overlapping generation teaching.
Clever.
Reply
JJ says:
September 10, 2015 at 4:08 am
Yes Dontknowwheretogo, the GB believe that anything that comes out of their own mouths must be from God. Not only the GB, but a lot of the elders too. I remember seeing it on the faces of some of those buffoons, after they said something they would have these self-assured smug look and you could hear the salient thought going through their primitive brian; I just said that! It must be true!
It’s unfortunate that they hurt so many trusting followers but it is satisfying to see themselves get taken in by their own lies.
Reply
John Chapman says:
September 10, 2015 at 3:48 pm
The 144,000 is Jesus. Jesus = Yesus or Yes us, the 144,000. The Teragrammaton is Yahweh not “Jehovah” Jehovah is Barack Obama, genetic offspring of Aton aka Akhenaton (tetra (4) gram (measure) aton. The 4 measures of ATON (Akhenaton). YHWH is YaHuWeHe(r), the 144,000 elect Gods and Goddesses. The JW’s are like a broken clock; wrong most of the time but right twice a day. Russell was right, only 100 years early. Rutherford was a Vatican Jesuit infiltrator. The Watchtower is the tip if the spear for the communist NWO. Get out of Her My people…ALL of it…JC of the 144,000 an EX JW…
Reply
anonymous says:
September 10, 2015 at 3:57 am
As crazy as it sounds, I look forward to every new jwbroadcast because they reinforce in me that I made the right decision to leave because so far, every one seems so very stupid and condescending to me.
Reply
Jill says:
September 10, 2015 at 9:33 am
Well said
Reply
John freeman says:
September 11, 2015 at 4:35 am
I am fading after 50 years in jw . And find it incredible that they are still trying to make this fit .it obviously only appied to the events of A D 70 etc . They have now abandoned the type and antitype so that the whole interpretation of matt 24 could be in question
Reply
John freeman says:
September 11, 2015 at 4:56 am
I dont understand why they dont just drop the generation explanations .they have got it wrong so many time the whole thing has become untenable . I asked my wife if she wanted to watch the broadcast . She said she never understood the previous explanation so she didnt wana see this one she been in since 60s like me. Im sure many jws would rather not go on about it . Wr discussed it she thinks it applied in first centry .
But not now it doesent make sense anymore . Why dont they just admit they got it wrong
Reply
Tam Emers says:
September 10, 2015 at 4:01 am
Another great article, Cedars. As you wrote about how JW Broadcasting brings the leadership to the spotlight instead of allowing them to remain in the shadows, I was struck by the comparison to a recent visit to the Nazi Documentation Center in Nuremberg, Germany. This center documents the rise of the Nazi Party prior to the beginning of the Second World War. Virtually from the time that the Nazi Party took leadership, Hitler was kept away from the common people. He would appear from a far-off podium, from a high balcony, from an armored car. His interactions with the people were limited, the reason given in the museum was that the Nazi Party wanted to cultivate the myth of ‘a benevolent Father figure, who was slaving away and working at the expense of his own health and well-being for the prosperity of the German people.’ I’ve listened to some of Hitler’s speeches and it is obvious that he was a powerful and compelling orator, but the world also knows he was crazy. Perhaps the ‘Father’ myth was also a way to keep the general population from discovering just how crazy he was.
It will be interesting to see how the spotlight changes the rank-and-file membership’s view of the Governing Body. Will the myth of benevolent leadership, of the Faithful ‘Fathers’ of the Organization working their fingers to the bone at the expense of their own health and well-being for the betterment of God’s people, hold up? I agree with you, that these men believe what they are preaching, which makes it so chillingly powerful. And scary.
One point of vocabulary: I would use the term ‘critical thinking’ rather than ‘logical thinking’, it is a bit more accurate way to describe the thinking process you are writing of. 😀
Reply
Cedars says:
September 10, 2015 at 4:13 am
Thanks for your observations Tam. I chose “logical thinking” over “critical thinking” deliberately. 😉
Reply
dontknowwheretogo says:
September 10, 2015 at 5:29 am
Very clever cedars, it this kind of thing that can draw in still-ins…I applaud this.
Reply
Cedars says:
September 10, 2015 at 5:33 am
“Draw in?” I prefer “help out.” :)
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 10, 2015 at 4:16 pm
Critical thinking, would be more in lines of making a decision, doing the math before giving an answer. Logical thinking would be reasoning as to the need to do things the way your doing them. Neither need apply to the absolute distorting of scripture we see here. Proverbs 30:5,6 ” Every saying of God is refined. He is a shield to those taking refuge in him. Add NOTHING to his words, Or he will reprove you, And you will be proved a LIAR.” ——-copied and pasted straight from silver sword.—–
Reply
Happyface says:
September 10, 2015 at 4:05 am
If only they could go back and double-check those Giza-pyramid measurements before making so many prophesies based on it.
A modern visionary of similar spirit had explained how such paradoxes (two generations being one) is perfectly possible. Its called Infinite Improbability. Research Douglas Adams. He too has quite a cult following and was able to breach most logical barriers in a perfectly valid and acceptable manner.
Do not be surprised to see the religion soon explode from a collection of 8-million psuedosheep to an infinite number of penguins.
Reply
al etheredge says:
September 10, 2015 at 9:58 am
Great point. After extensive research conducted over a span of 15 seconds, I am certain that the angle on the left of the parallelogram (8:58 on video) precisely corresponds to the angle of the faces of the great pyramid. It all makes sense now (head impacts desk).
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 10, 2015 at 4:29 pm
If it weren’t for the physical books out there in the thousands, they would deny the entire pyramid debacle, hence Rutherford cleaning house only to make his own false prophecies in the 20’s, when the membership started to speak up shunning was created to deal with those waking up. A few more prophecies later and culminating in all those waking up after the 1975 episode, we get the Ray Franz generation of awakenings. As you can see by this article the false prophecies have not stopped and in the eyes of those of us who believe in Gods word, neither has the name given to those who claim God will do something and then he doesn’t.
Reply
Happyface says:
September 10, 2015 at 10:33 pm
I am exceedingly privileged to have come into the Christ having left the Jehovah’s Witnesses. I hope the same happens to those also who have been wounded.
In the words of James White ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru3GbBB_pIs ) many who leave the JWs never recover and end up as the “spiritually abused”. Its my hope that many who have been hurt can one day find the true comfort that is in Jesus.
Jesus is very different than what the JWs have portrayed. That religion is such a small spec in the history of apostacies and most insignificant in the shadow of the true shepherd.
Reply
JJ says:
September 10, 2015 at 4:21 am
I agree with you Cedars! I couldn’t believe that JW Broadcasting (or any other form of JW-dumb) would attempt to explain this teaching(?) or whatever else you call the ‘overlapping generation’.
I’ve been out for a while but when I was ‘in’ a few years ago, I never heard anyone talk about the overlapping generation or even the ‘adjustment’ to the generation thing. It felt like we all just wanted to ignore it since the big change in 1995, or whenever it was. Growing up, the generation of 1914 was a huge doctrine for all of us Jehovah’s Witnesses but it felt like it became an embraces net in the last couple of decades (has it been that long already?!?)
Why the Governing Body would feel the need to go over this just staggers my imagination!!! Regular Jehovah’s Witnesses seem to be smart enough to not talk about it, why would their leaders not realize that no one wants to touch this ‘hot potato’???
I love charts and graphs but this diagram was the most stupid thing that I’ve ever seen! It makes no sense! In fact, when I first saw the still shot of David Splaine with his pointer I thought it was a doctored (photoshopped) picture. That’s how ridiculous it looked. (How do you tell a moron that he’s a moron? I guess that you just can’t).
If this month’s broadcasting doesn’t wake up a few thousand people to get out of the JW World then I guess my estimation for human intelligence will just have to be taken down another notch or two.
Reply
Scrubmaster says:
September 10, 2015 at 4:26 am
I always find the overlapping generation funny. Jesus used illustrations his audience of that time could easily understand. Some how I can not see the people Jesus was talking to sitting together and saying to themselves, wait a minute is\was Jesus talking about our generation or a generation which is overlapping with ours? :-)
Reply
Anonymous says:
September 10, 2015 at 9:15 am
You mean this didn’t happen?
http://i.imgur.com/j9wjYEa.jpg
Reply
Scrubmaster says:
September 10, 2015 at 12:00 pm
@ Anonymous – that jpg is hilarious! LOL!
Reply
Idontknowhatodo says:
September 10, 2015 at 4:29 am
This has the air of desperation about it…..
Reply
Nemorino says:
September 10, 2015 at 5:07 am
As the leading JW doctrinician, it appears Splane had to face the music when it came to publicly explain the inexplicable, to defend the indefensible; he drew the short straw.
Can you imagine the reaction to this by an uninitiated audience in a public forum?
Reply
EverydayExplorer says:
September 10, 2015 at 5:33 am
My sentiments too, Nemorino.
What dreadful patronising bilge from yet another GB member.
These words are so far away from a belief in a loving creator. Notice the flippant way he flings away words like ‘famines’, ‘wars’, etc, as if these terms do not signify unimaginable suffering for human beings.
I try not to get overwhelmed by sadness at the cruelty this WT Soc disseminates, but sometimes it’s hard. Then I remember that those of us who are not under its thrall have the power and commitment to keep spotlighting its heinous propaganda. I’m going to keep fighting.
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 10, 2015 at 4:35 pm
God bless, Explorer.
Reply
Jaak says:
September 10, 2015 at 6:48 am
They would swallow it.
Reply
Baby says:
September 10, 2015 at 6:53 am
every truth is like light, its brightness is becoming brighter over time.
(Proverbs 4:18) But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light That grows brighter and brighter until full daylight
Reply
Excelsior! says:
September 10, 2015 at 7:57 am
Baby,
Welcome back again!
I am still waiting for answers to my questions on a previous topic, please.
Your comment makes no sense. Either something is true or it isn’t.
The scripture in Proverbs you quoted is not talking about Divine Inspiration, but contrasts a righteous with an unrighteous man. What was your point? Simply throwing a scripture down is just not sufficient.
Have you read my comment about Matthew1:17, Baby? What are your thoughts on it?
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
Max says:
September 10, 2015 at 9:10 pm
Baby, your god channel uses Prov. 4:18 as an excuse, period. 100 years from now (and think about it, because the overlapping generation could be another 100 years or more…) they will still be using it. Jesus was an end times preacher, just like the WT is. Do you honestly believe that he was hyping the end times to his live audience knowing that the end would not be for another 1900 plus years? That is what you are inadvertently consenting to believing. If so, then your precious GB could be doing the same thing, stringing you along, hyping the “end of days” in order to gain more converts.
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 10, 2015 at 4:33 pm
ROFL- He drew the short straw
Reply
Excelsior! says:
September 10, 2015 at 5:16 am
Folks,
The definition of a generation is provided in Matthew 1: 17
According to this, there were 14 generations from the Babylonian exile to the birth of Jesus.
If we take the WTBTS’ erroneous date of 607, we count back to 1. 607 divided by 14 is 43.357142 for one generation.
So, if the morons in the WTBTS are correct, Armageddon should have been and gone in 1957!
If we take the correct year for the Banylonian exile of 589, we get a generation of just over 42 years!
Jesus said that the generation who he preached to would see the destruction of Jerusalem, and they did. These events fit into the time frame set out in Matthew 1.
The WTBTS have only themselves to blame! This verse is very easy to calculate from. There is no excuse for their stupid beliefs.
I stole this from Spike R on you tube!
I thought that these governing body members were supposed to be bible scholars? What a joke they all are!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
Markw1509 says:
September 10, 2015 at 9:47 am
Oh, so true, Excelsior! Thank you for that so basic, so simple reasoning. But it means the R&F have to think for themselves, something they’re not capable of doing. So so glad I can live a life that isn’t under the control of the seven popes.
Reply
Malachi says:
September 10, 2015 at 5:46 am
This is the first time I’ve felt compelled to actually watch one of these broadcasts. It was this whole incomprehensible, contrived redefinition of the word ‘generation’ that broke the camel’s back for me, the redefinition of the ‘faithful and discreet slave’ drove the final nails in the coffin. I asked a friend who has been in Bethel for many years what he thought of it and he shook his head and said ‘who knows’. It should be plainly obvious to any thinking person that if you need to use the word ‘generation’ twice in the definition of the word ‘generation’ something is off. Another fine analysis of the nonsense that the ‘slave’ is force-feeding the blinded, delusional masses. Never lose sight of the fact that we were there once, real truth wants to be heard and hopefully it is only a matter of time when it is all so obvious (like it isn’t already?) that the mass exodus begins. Thanks for your hard work Lloyd!
Reply
Ted says:
September 10, 2015 at 6:08 am
The boat has sunk and they’re flailing about like drowning men,
looking for any piece of the wreck to hang on to.
Reply
Baby says:
September 10, 2015 at 6:52 am
every truth is like light, its brightness is becoming brighter over time.
(Proverbs 4:18) But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light That grows brighter and brighter until full daylight
Reply
Cedars says:
September 10, 2015 at 7:32 am
Baby, I hate to break it to you but Proverbs 4:18 has nothing to do with prophetic understanding or even reading the bible. In fact there is no bible verse that sets a precedent for God telling his worshipers something that isn’t true merely to tide them over until truth is later revealed.
Reply
Baby says:
September 10, 2015 at 6:43 am
I think you don’t understand nothink at all what Spane said or explain. You only oppose but you understand not. Can you show one verse that contradicts what he said?
You can say the interpretations are not truth, ok, but can you show what you say from the Bible?
Reply
Baby says:
September 10, 2015 at 6:48 am
every truth is like light, its brightness is becoming brighter over time
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 10, 2015 at 6:57 am
@Baby . CAN YOU SHOW IN The BIBLE Where GENERATION MEANS OVERLAPPING????
Reply
anonymous says:
September 10, 2015 at 7:07 am
Baby, I have been in the “truth” for fifty years and I have been keeping up with all the new “light” so can you explain it better than Splane because no, I don’t get it. Obviously you are a whole lot smarter than we are so please explain it so we can understand the overlapping generation and how anybody who was “anointed” by 1992 means that as long as they were anointed by 1992 (or thereabouts) then they fit into the overlapping generations and that means that the Great Tribulation means that it’s about to happen any minute now.
Don’t accuse us of being so stupid that we can’t understand it when you can. Please explain it to us then.
Reply
David says:
September 10, 2015 at 7:19 am
1 Timothy 1:4
or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work–which is by faith.
JW are trying to teach things that are reserved to God showing no respect to God
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 10, 2015 at 9:25 am
@Baby . YOUR VOCABULARY & GRAMMAR ARE APPALLING!! Where in the Oxford English Dictionary does it contain the word ‘NOTHINK’
Then Again I suppose I should expect this Illogical thinking & Spelling from a SUPPORTER of The GB!!!
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 10, 2015 at 4:42 pm
You forget they are now pushing for home schooling jw youth, lest they be exposed critical thinking and logic. Watchtower 33:78 skool bad boogymen brain big make.
Reply
Searcher says:
September 10, 2015 at 10:08 am
@Baby,
I’m not going to attack your belief or your grammer, but I do want you to think about the following.
The passage in Proverbs Chapter 4 that is often referred to and used so much by the Watchtower leadership is not used in context by the Watchtower. The WT leadership uses a portion of this scripture, not the whole scripture, to reconcile mistakes and lies. The WHOLE scripture when read in context (reading the whole paragraph in which it is contained) is referring to a wise man using wisdom and a fool not heading wisdom. The passage DOES NOT refer to knowledge given in small doses and knowledge that changes over time. Read the whole paragraph and you’ll see what I’m talking about.
With that, understand I am not trying to prove you wrong, but want you to see how the GB and WT leadership use pieces and parts of scripture to deceive the rank and file membership.
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 10, 2015 at 4:45 pm
It’s because your reading the (a) portion of the verse, the (b) is not to be read or the argument falls apart, come on! All speakers know this.
Reply
Mary says:
September 10, 2015 at 10:41 am
Baby asked: “Can you show one verse that contradicts what he said?”
Well actually ya I can. Matthew 24:34 says “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.”
Can you show us one verse where Jesus said this “overlapping generation will not pass away”?
Reply
just asking says:
September 10, 2015 at 6:46 am
Yes, how can you be the boss and hide behind curtains as your subjects enjoy the limelight. They just couldn’t stand it. It was simply too much. Now they’re trying to make an appearance everywhere for conventions.
Reply
Baby says:
September 10, 2015 at 6:50 am
every truth is like light, its brightness is becoming brighter over time.
(Proverbs 4:18) But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light That grows brighter and brighter until full daylight
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 10, 2015 at 7:01 am
@BABY . THE GB DARKNESS is GETTING DARKER & DARKER !!! LITTLE BABY PROVERB ???
Reply
Excelsior! says:
September 10, 2015 at 8:03 am
Baby,
Simply quoting the same discredited bible passage at people will convince no one of your opinion!
How about your opinion on Matthew 1:17 instead of repetitious comments? You asked us to prove FROM THE BIBLE that Mr Splane is incorrect. I quote FROM THE BIBLE and I would appreciate a response from you on this scripture, NOT another misapplication of a Proverb!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
I’m afraid that none of us are convinced of your point of view!
Reply
Malachi says:
September 10, 2015 at 3:46 pm
Stop feeding the troll! Since when has any self-respecting true believer JW been capable of critical thinking or logical deduction at any level? ‘Baby’ may as well be a machine, all ‘Baby’ is capable of is parroting the same little phrase over and over like every other JW who is confronted with an unanswerable question or problem that might cause intelligent thought in any other reasonable person capable of thinking without being told what to think. Thought control at its finest!
Reply
Becky says:
September 10, 2015 at 11:28 pm
or in the words of Timbuk3 “The future’s so bright, I gotta wear shades”
Reply
chris benson says:
September 10, 2015 at 6:59 am
Thanks Lloyd another very good article.
Hmmm next time i pass JW cart i get them to try and explain this – its probably a dreaded question that a lot of JWs dont really want
Reply
David says:
September 10, 2015 at 7:16 am
I understand that with time you get better understanding but in the JW case their overlapping generation teaching is outright lie.
Where in the Bible Jesus refers to overlapping generations?
Common sense and Bible knowledge tells that a generation is a period of 37-40 years. So instead that humbly saying that they were wrong they distort deliberately Jesus words over and over again. Shame on the GB!
Reply
Nilsson says:
September 10, 2015 at 7:27 am
There are no such a thing as “The end of the world” as the Jw´s and other totalitarian Cults believe!
Keep yourselves like men who are watching for their master to return from the marriage feast so that, when he comes and knocks, you may quickly open to him. Such watchful servants are blessed by the master who finds them faithful at such a great moment. Then will the master make his servants sit down while he himself serves them. Verily, verily, I say to you that a crisis is just ahead in your lives, and it behooves you to watch and be ready.
“You well understand that no man would suffer his house to be broken into if he knew what hour the thief was to come. Be you also on watch for yourselves, for in an hour that you least suspect and in a manner you think not, shall the Son of Man depart.”
Urantia Book, Paper 165.
Thats right, the Son of man would depart, NOT arrive at this moment. Even though he said he would come again, it certainly will not have to do with “the end of the world” as fundamental Christians believe!
Reply
David says:
September 10, 2015 at 7:31 am
The list of end time predictions and apocalyptic charlatans is huge.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events
The JW are probably the ones with the most failures. All this failures indicates that they are not spirit directed but they are presumptuous.
Deuteronomy 18:22
If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.
Reply
DavidR says:
September 10, 2015 at 8:06 am
Side Note: I got stumped when he said that a baby that was born 10 minutes after Joseph died did not live at the same time. I thought JW’s were big on life beginning at inception? So wouldn’t someone who died 10 minutes before Joseph was born or 10 minutes after he died still be part of this generation?
I am stumbled because now the Governing Body doesn’t believe that a baby is alive in the mother’s womb when clearly the scriptures talk about how John the Baptizer leaped in the womb!
Reply
FadingFast says:
September 10, 2015 at 8:37 am
I just want to know what the possible significance is of the diagonally-oriented candy stripes on the chart. Why not vertical? Is the sixty-degree angle a throwback to pyramid geometry? Ha! When was the last time you saw timelines that overlapped in this manner?
Reply
eyes opened says:
September 10, 2015 at 8:42 am
Okay I’m having a moment of silliness here,
So let me get “this” straight…”this” doesn’t mean what I thought “this” meant. I thought “this” meant “to identify a specific person or thing close at hand or being indicated or experienced”. Bro. Splane says “this” generation is something we have to figure out who “this” is. I guess the GB has the authority to change dictionary definitions…haha. So “this” comment is written on “this” blog and “this” is the end. Let the reader use discernment, haha.
Reply
Nemorino says:
September 10, 2015 at 8:53 am
Into which generation would Splane assign someone born AFTER Joseph but who predeceases him?
Reply
Lol says:
September 10, 2015 at 8:58 am
Hey since my parents were in their 20’s and part of the “hippie generation ” I guess since I am alive At the same time as them. I MUST BE PART OF THE HIPPIE GENERATION ? Anyone with half a brain knows that a “generation ” is a spell of time when something or someone was prominent . And for a person it is the main part of their life (20-60 yrs old) I was alive when Elvis was still alive , but I certainly was not part of the “Elvis generation “, no, those people around his age and enjoying his music when he was in his heyday , ARE PART IF HIS GENERATION , not an infant that happened to be born a year or two before he died . I don’t “carry” Elvis’ generation another 50 years WITH ME !!! This is retarded! One of the main reasons I stopped preaching . Can’t instruct others in stuff that is unbelievable
Reply
eyes opened says:
September 10, 2015 at 9:41 am
I forgot to mention that when discussing with an elder about Jesus being given “all” authority, I was told I didn’t have the correct understanding of “all”. So this comment goes out to “all y’all”… I have the same understanding as several of you with respect to Prov. 4:18. When considering surrounding scriptures “this” verse is contrasting the righteous and unrighteous. When sticking to the righteous path it becomes clearer and brighter that it’s the best path to follow. I am unaware of any scriptures that suggest we are to manipulate dates to come to1914. And besides, 2 Chronicles 36:20-21 speaks of the 70 years being fulfilled when the royalty of Persia began to rule and wbts own literature tells us that was in 539 BC that Babylon was captured. That leads to 609 BC. Again why do we think those dates have a bearing on Christ’s rulership? After his resurrection he said he had “all” authority. Also scriptures such as Eph. 1:19-21, Col. 2:10, 1 Pet. 3:22 speak of him having authority over angels, powers, governments and so on. Hebrews 10:13 does speak of him waiting. The way my husband explained this is Christ is waiting to see the results of his kingdom as his word is spread and more and more learn about him. (Leaven in flour illustrating growth of the kingdom, all the while Jesus is in control.) Just as a doctor is in control of your treatment, but when he prescribes medication he must wait to see the results of the treatment. This has helped me to reason on things that could have been quite confusing were I to still have wbts blinders on. The scriptures tell us when there is a turning to God, the veil is removed. I started out fighting these various lines of reasoning. Didn’t always like the conclusions I was reaching but I figured believing unscriptural teachings wasn’t going to benefit me and I do like the freedom I’ve gained. Anyway just a few thoughts I wanted to share. See if anyone else has had similar conclusions.
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 10, 2015 at 4:55 pm
When we start handing out assurances as to what is not obvious in Gods word, we become no better than the subjects of this article. We stop seeing the forest, because the trees are in our way. That has been the downfall of Christianity in all its denominations. Why can’t we do something simple like living by the golden rule and acquiring knowledge of his word as was asked of us and not trying to mold it in any way. Just share Jesus story without the agendas.
Reply
David says:
September 10, 2015 at 10:08 am
If they had the single interpretation of the generation changed many items (something that can be tested) imagine what certainty there can be that their points (which cannot be tested) supporting the 1914 doctrine are true.
There are many interpretations that must be absolutely correct for their organization to be right. If one falls the entire house falls apart.
It is clear that they are investing their lives in a distorted vision destroying the lives of people who have decided to stop believing on a bunch of speculations.
In Jesus words I see intelligence something that I cannot see in the JW.org teachings.
Reply
al etheredge says:
September 10, 2015 at 10:33 am
Hey Cedars, I enjoy your videos but I have a bit of a technical issue. The intros are relatively loud while your speech is very low. Could you balance the audio level a bit? I noticed on the above video that you added subtitles which helps. In case you’re wondering, it’s nowhere near as annoying as the feedback screech we used to get every time the audio was switched on at the kingdom hall. lol
Reply
Cedars says:
September 10, 2015 at 11:50 pm
With early videos the intros and outros were unusually loud. All of my more recent videos have quieter intros/outros.
Reply
Mary says:
September 10, 2015 at 10:45 am
God that was painful to watch. Even if I were still going to the meetings, this one would scream out ‘bullshlt’ and I imagine there are a number of JWs (especially older ones) who must realize what a crock this is.
Reply
Mary says:
September 10, 2015 at 10:52 am
Here’s another example that shows just how ludicrous this ‘overlapping generation’ is: Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother was born in 1900 and died in 2002. Prince William was born in 1982 (I think). His life overlapped with his great-grandmothers. Let us assume that he inherits longevity and lives another 70 years to around the year 2085.
Even though there is 185 years difference between them, if you use Crooklyn’s bizarre logic, that means that Prince William was of the same generation as his great-grandmother. The stupidity of this can hardly be measured yet that is exactly what they’re trying to pawn off as ‘present truth’ right now. And sadly, they’ll be JWs that actually fall for it.
Reply
anonymous says:
September 10, 2015 at 11:33 am
Mary, I can’t think of a better illustration to show what bull***t the overlapping doctrine is!!! I will remember it and use it. And Lol, I love your illustration also!!!
Reply
Idontknowhatodo says:
September 11, 2015 at 1:46 am
Mary….excellent thinking…I think you could outwit David Splane…what a load of nonsense he talks…My mother believed it…my father believed it…my spouse believes it…all my children believe it…and when I asked an elder to explain it he tried…and when I still looked puzzled…he said…I dont really understand it either, but its come from the GB so just accept it…..well Mary now I can explain using your example…I wonder what he will say….
Reply
Reader says:
September 10, 2015 at 11:23 am
I had a look at a Greek interlinear and Strongs 3778,
in the Greek ‘this’ follows ‘generation’.
I am far from expert in Greek that’s why I have these books, but subject to other opinions I see it as ‘this’=’same man’ and/or ‘same woman’?
Reply
david adam says:
September 10, 2015 at 11:26 am
Thanks for the insight.You have helped my wife and me so much.keep up the good work.
Reply
Searcher says:
September 10, 2015 at 11:30 am
Oh this broadcast has pegged the needle on my Baloney Meter! Where do I begin!
First, I would call this in mathematical terms, EXTRAPOLATION. The WEBSTER definition of extrapolation, “In mathematics, extrapolation is the process of estimating, beyond the original observation range, the value of a variable on the basis of its relationship with another variable.” In a sense, Splane is extrapolating the generation to ‘overlap’ another generation. Hmmm. “Estimating beyond the original observation range…”? When a prediction is extrapolated, the inaccuracy of the prediction doesn’t get more accurate; it gets less accurate. Basically, the light isn’t getting brighter, it’s getting dimmer.
Next, Splane jumps to a grand conclusion at about the 7 minute mark after asking many questions and setting up many definitions. He says that all ‘these things’ became apparent in 1914. Again, Hmmmm. He and his ‘contemporaries’ (Including the nut job Freddy Franz) aren’t a good study of actual world history. Nation rising against nation, famines, disease plagues, and the like has been happening since history began and unfortunately will continue as long as there is a human race. NEWS FLASH: It didn’t start in 1914!!!! He goes on to talk down to all others who didn’t have the recognition that ‘these things’ were happening in 1914; as if they were dumb children that couldn’t possibly comprehend such a premonition. This is to say that he, as an overlapping contemporary of the 1914 group, can only discern the Big A is to come ‘soon’.
Lastly, Splane redefines generation with a very roundabout explanation. He starts by baiting the audience to look up a scripture reference to define ‘generation’. Then quickly jumps to the Joseph and his bros explanation. Well, he said it! It must be the right! Right? No! You would have to be smoking dope to buy that explanation. I believe that Excelsior gives us a much more plausible definition of what a biblical generation truly means. Splane’s splainin’ shows the extent these weasels will go to cover their mistakes and deceive the masses.
How could splane actually hold a straight face and just spill this like it was fact? It must actually think that if he says it, then it must be fact. Any thinking person would know this is speculation at best and purposeful deception at worst. How can people actually believe this knucklehead and fellow knucklehead’s (i.e. the Governing Body) have all the answers? The whole thing was absolutely disgusting!
Reply
Searcher says:
September 10, 2015 at 11:39 am
Last paragraph should have said, “HE must actually….” not “It must actually…”
Anyway, you get my drift.
Reply
Ted says:
September 10, 2015 at 11:51 am
They’re desperate to ditch 1914, it’s a noose they’ve made
for their own necks that’s getting tighter all the time and must
eventually finish them off.
But they’re stuck with it. No 1914,= no Parousia, no inspection
of all religions by Jesus, and no choosing of the bible students
( Russellites) as his exclusive channel of communication to all
mankind. No 1914 the whole thing dissolves into thin air.
Ray Franz, in his book, “Crisis of Conscience” chap, 10. Makes
us privy to the GBs, decades long struggle with this problem.
GB members, Karl Klein, and Grant Suiter, proposed moving the
year to 1957 when the Russians sent up the Sputnik ( Signs in the
Sun and Moon ) were cited .
The then president, Nathan Knorr said “I know that Jehovah is God
and that Jesus is his son and that he gave his life as a ransom for us
and that there will be a Ressurection . As for 1914, I don’t if we’re
right, I hope we are !” They were baffled then, and now they’re
desperate.
I can’t help thinking that if any ordinary member had expressed
themselves in the doubtful manner of those GB men and even the
the president, the Supremo. They would have been cut off
and shunned.
Reply
Malachi says:
September 10, 2015 at 3:58 pm
Wrt people bringing this to the attention of the GB two names come to mind: Carl Olof Jonsson who wrote an entire book on the errant chronology of the WTS “Gentile Times Revisited” after he presented to the GB a 100+ page thesis on the subject and Alan Fuerbacher who has written several fine articles on the subject. Both inquired of Brooklyn providing reams of documented research showing how tainted and skewed the society’s chronology is and I know that one if not both have been df’d for not recanting their heresy.
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 10, 2015 at 5:14 pm
They are for fact NOT stuck with 1914, it is dead horse they keep beating for no reason. They didn’t predict the date, so they have no obligation whatsoever to hold to it, other than to keep the whole sky is falling agenda. They could very easily transition into an organization that has collectively learned to wait on God and leave it at that, while keeping the majority of the membership and its enthusiasm for the preaching work. I for one love the preaching, it was the preaching bs that I can’t stomach. I keep my preaching work strictly biblical, praying this organization remembers true north some day.
Reply
ruthlee says:
September 10, 2015 at 12:11 pm
hi there, what mess is this!? i quote a little something for you from Scott Marmion canto6 “Ah dastard fool,” to reason lost,……. Oh, what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive!. i remember when freddy franz died i was told it was an end of an era because he was the last in the direct line of charlie taze so what.Now we have yet another revision. i reckon JC is having a field day with these ninnies, its becoming laughable . when we were hurt they still had a grip , now they are clowning around well we are eyes wide open and havin a larf ha ha, so kingdom smile anyone? mine’s a large gin and tonic, im smiling.
Reply
Ted says:
September 10, 2015 at 12:14 pm
Maybe they were called, Watchtower Bible and tract society
of Pennsylvania, when they claim they were chosen and not
Bible Students, or Russelites. But most of that group made
up the WTS, What’s in a name ? says Shakespeare.
Reply
anonymous says:
September 10, 2015 at 12:43 pm
Splane out and out lied when he claimed that the only ones who saw the sign knew something “invisible” was happening. According the the book “Light” volume one by Rutherford published in 1930 said on page 194:
“The Watch Tower, and its companion publications of the Society, for forty years emphasized the fact that 1914 would witness the establishment of God’s kingdom and the complete glorification of the church. During that period of forty years God’s people on earth were carrying on a witness work, which work was foreshadowed by Elijah and John the Baptist. All of the Lord’s people looked forward to 1914 with joyful expectation. When that time came and passed there was much disappointment, chagrin and mourning, and the Lord’s people were greatly in reproach. They were ridiculed by the clergy and their allies in particular, and pointed to with scorn, because they had said so much about 1914, and what would come to pass, and their ‘prophecies’ had not been fulfilled.
……page 196:
“Has the kingdom begun in any sense of the word? (We so believe). We (think) that the light now going forth is under the direction of the Captain of our Salvation. We (think) that the present distress amongst the nations is merely the beginning of this time of trouble.”
That book Light #1 was printed in 1930 (sixteen years after World War #1 broke out) and Rutherford said that they “thought” that the kingdom had begun. They sure don’t sound like they “knew” that the kingdom rule had begun in 1930 but they did look like fools in 1915 when Armageddon didn’t come in 1914 like they had predicted so in order to save face, they came up with the excuse that the rule was “invisible”. Since it was “invisible”, it is so easy to claim it happened since nobody can actually see something that is invisible.
Fred Franz and his brother (Ray Franz’s father) were both baptized in 1913. I bet it was so they’d not be killed at Armageddon in November of 1914 like the Society had predicted. Fred was 20 (not a kid either).
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 10, 2015 at 2:11 pm
@Anonymous. Also in the ‘Light’ Book Rutherford was still holding to Christs Presence being 1874 & it wasn’t until 1943 that Knorr just after Rutherfords Death that Christs Presence changed to 1914 !!
WELCOME To The CRAZY EVER CHANGING INTERPRETATIONs of the ‘CRAZY SEVEN ‘ Men of the GB. !!
Reply
Dream Catcher says:
September 10, 2015 at 3:22 pm
“But I am growing increasingly confident that to any sincere, intellectually honest Witness capable of rudimentary reasoning skills, no rebuttals are needed. The delusion, absurdity and self-indulgence speaks for itself.”
Cedars I wish this statement to be true but you have been out to long. Most JW view the monthly broadcast as coming from heaven itself, and the majority will view Splanes explanation as if actually recorded in the gospels.
Reply
Cedars says:
September 10, 2015 at 3:51 pm
I didn’t say “majority.” Read it again.
Reply
Ted says:
September 10, 2015 at 4:03 pm
The ultimate special offer, 2 generations for the price of 1.
Only available from JW.org, hurry to avoid disappointment
offer ends soon.
Silly I know. But there’s nothing sensible to say about it.
Reply
Garrett says:
September 10, 2015 at 4:17 pm
But wait Ted! There’s more!
Not only do you get 2 generations for one ….
But! If you order before midnight you get the full
set of John the Baptist steak knives . Holy Cow!
And for the first 1000 callers you get the 3 wise men spice rack stocked with feankinsence and Murr.
Be the envy of your guests.
Call now 1-800-WATCHTOWER
Order now !
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 10, 2015 at 5:19 pm
Ok……. your drunk, go home.
Reply
Newer Comments →
Leave a Reply
Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *
Name *
Email *
Website
Comment
You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>
applications-education-miscellaneous.png
Comment posting guidelines:
Kindly observe the following requirements before posting any comments to our articles or pages:
◾ABUSIVE COMMENTS - Do not post comments that include swear words or may be considered abusive, lewd, blasphemous, obscene or threatening
◾ILLEGAL COMMENTS - Do not post comments that condone or propose illegal activity, or that breach copyright law
◾OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS - Do not post comments that are off-topic and bear no relation to the page or article
◾RELIGIOUS NEUTRALITY - Do not post comments that are evangelical in nature or may be construed as imposing one person's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) over those of another
◾LANGUAGE - Visitors from all countries and language groups are welcome. You may post comments in languages other than English, but we would appreciate if you could make any such comments brief. We would also be grateful if you could run any such comments through Google Translate and convert these to English, but this is not an absolute requirement.
◾LINKS - You may post links to third party websites, so long as (1) you limit these to 2 links per comment, and (2) the content on these links doesn't contravene ANY of the first four points. Specifically, you may not post URLs to websites that are evangelical in nature. Our links page has an extensive list of such sites for any who are curious about Christian beliefs in the context of Jehovah's Witnesses.
JWSurvey.org thanks all visitors in advance for respectfully observing these guidelines. Any who persistently fail to do so, despite warnings, may find themselves blocked from making further comments at the discretion of the site moderators, whose decision will be final and not open for debate.
Notify me of new posts by email.
Click on
Visit JWfacts.com for more information on JW beliefs
Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses
JW Recovery forum
Barbara Anderson's Watchtower Documents resource
Visit JWstruggle.com for helpful information on exiting JW mind control Visit TAZE.co for discussion on Jehovah's Witness developments
Support JWsurvey
Help us make continued improvements to this website and its content.
Article Categories
◾Apostates (28)
◾Blood transfusions (12)
◾Books (5)
◾Cedars' Blog (211)
◾Cedars' Story (4)
◾Celebrity JWs (2)
◾Child Abuse (51)
◾Child Indoctrination (16)
◾Divine Direction (4)
◾Domestic Abuse (2)
◾Doomsday Predictions (1)
◾Downsizing (7)
◾Evolution and creation (6)
◾General Information (1)
◾Governing Body (34)
◾Higher education (3)
◾History and scandals (6)
◾JW.org (8)
◾Life Stories (10)
◾Mental health (5)
◾Mini-Surveys (5)
◾News (191)
◾Property sales (5)
◾Publications (6)
◾Shunning (13)
◾Support (6)
◾Survey (11)
◾Undue influence (16)
◾Warwick headquarters (4)
Search JWsurvey
Subscribe to JW Survey
Enter your email address to receive notices of new posts by email.
Join 836 other subscribers
Email Address
Listen to JWpodcast
Check out the latest episode of JW podcast!
Latest John Cedars video
Popular JW sites in other languages
Languages
More languages...
Select... Croatian Czech Dutch Estonian Finnish 1 Finnish 2 French 1 French 2 French 3 German 1 German 2 Hungarian Italian 1 Italian 2 Italian 3 Japanese Polish 1 Polish 2 Polish 3 Portuguese 1 Portuguese 2 Romanian Russian 1 Russian 2 Russian 3 Serbian 1 Serbian 2 Serbian 3 Slovak Spanish 1 Spanish 2
Top Posts & Pages
David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
Following the "Return to Jehovah" release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
Following the "Return to Jehovah" release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
Links
Links
JW Broadcasting
JW Broadcasting
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
Videos
Videos
Key Articles
Is JWsurvey.org an apostate website?
What is the new light on the faithful slave?
Has Watchtower ever lied or withheld informatiion?
Open Offer
Open Offer to all bethelites
Do you work at Brooklyn, Patterson or Wallkill? If so, please click here.
Our Promise
Making corrections
Is there something incorrect or unfactual on this website? If so, please let us know and we will correct it.
2015 results at a glance
Number of respondents to the 2015 Global Survey
Site Stats
Visitor stats for JWsurvey
Like us on Facebook!
Cedars’ Twitter Feed
Who's Online
◾0 Members.
◾36 Guests.
Reader Comments
◾JB Reezner on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
Menu
◾About JW Survey
◾Contact Us
◾Experiences
◾Get Involved
◾Global Surveys ◾2011 Global Survey
◾2012 Global Survey
◾2013 Global Survey
◾2014 Global Survey
◾2015 Global Survey
◾JW Broadcasting
◾JWawake.com
◾Links
◾Videos
◾Welcome
Login
◾Login
Scan JWsurvey.org
Copyright © 2011-2013 JWsurvey.org. Site design and support by The Small Web Master.
StatCounter - Free Web Tracker and Counter
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/david-splane-explains-the-overlapping-generation-teaching-without-actually-explaining-it/comment-page-1#comments
Skip to content
JWsurvey
Welcome
Cedars’ Blog
About JW Survey
Global Surveys
»
Videos
JW Broadcasting
Get Involved
Links
Contact Us
← Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
Posted on September 10, 2015
David Splane grapples with the "overlapping generation" teaching in a new video
David Splane grapples with the “overlapping generation” teaching in a new video
The September JW Broadcasting episode is now available on tv.jw.org, and for any avid follower of goings-on at Watchtower this month’s offering from the ‘faithful and discreet slave’ is a must-watch.
Governing Body member David Splane addresses his audience on one of the many subjects best swept under the rug by Watchtower – the incomprehensible “overlapping generation” teaching.
Simply put, this teaching (which first appeared in the April 15, 2010 Watchtower) is a hastily-contrived get-out-of-jail-free card for the failed 1914 “this generation” teaching.
For decades Watchtower publications insisted that Armageddon was imminent because, they argued, the generation of anointed Witnesses (who believed they were going to heaven) who witnessed and understood the events of 1914 would not die out before Armageddon arrived.
This claim was based on Matthew 24:34, where Jesus told his followers that the generation that witnessed various apocalyptic signs would not die out until all his words, including the “great tribulation” (the prelude to Armageddon), came true.
So certain was Watchtower of this claim that it even had it included in its masthead for the Awake! magazine…
awake-page-4-generation-masthead-oct-1995-tn
That is, until they quietly changed the masthead to read as follows…
awake-page-4-masthead-nov-1995-tn
Increasingly it became obvious that Watchtower’s self-imposed time limit on Armageddon had expired, because too much time had passed since 1914 for there to be any survivors among Jehovah’s Witnesses old enough to have memories of the outbreak of World War I. In fact, at the time of writing in September 2015, only 50 individuals older than 110 years old are known to still be alive.
“New light” was called for, and in 1995 and 2008 the organization made various stabs at squaring the circle. Paul Grundy has done a great job of documenting these fluctuating “understandings” on his JWfacts resource.
The most recent solution, as proposed by Watchtower in 2010 (and regurgitated by Splane in the above clip), is to essentially embellish Jesus’ words by suggesting that “this generation” doesn’t have to be just one generation, but can be two.
The first “group” of “this generation” would witness and understand the events of 1914, and the second group would be those who were born before the last individuals in the first group died (hence an “overlapping” generation).
If you don’t understand this, it is not due to any failure on your part. It is because it doesn’t make sense. The teaching rides roughshod over the English language, redefining what “generation” means, and relying on the audience to willfully bypass their logical thinking skills by asserting the incomprehensible as indisputable truth.
After all, if you can arbitrarily insist that a generation can be composed of two groups, why not have three, four, five – on into infinity? The word “generation” quickly loses all meaning.
The wisest course of action for Watchtower would have been to either distance itself from the “overlapping generation” teaching as a well-meaning slip-up (perhaps by arguing “this generation” was figurative rather than literal), or ignore the matter altogether.
Instead, the Governing Body apparently concluded that a 12-minute video presentation rehashing the teaching, complete with diagram and stick pointer, was just what the doctor ordered.
Their mistake is an inevitable byproduct of their delusion and bullish devotion to their own contrived dogma. It is, to my mind, further proof that the Governing Body are not cynical con-men but really do believe their own nonsense – and expect us to believe it too. Otherwise, they would have steered clear of the subject entirely, and spoken about something more compelling and universally appealing.
In addition to this obvious faux pas, I am also delighted at David Splane’s performance, which wreaked of cheesiness and insincerity…
As a side note – Splane is among three Governing Body members (together with Herd and Losch) who have apparently opted to deliver their JW Broadcasting episodes alongside “helpers” from the various Governing Body committees. The other Governing Body members (Lett, Morris, Sanderson and Jackson) tend to appear by themselves. I can’t help but question Splane’s decision to appear with a co-host, since he is in my view one of the more competent, persuasive speakers on the Governing Body. His uneasy interactions with his co-host only serve to undo the forcefulness of his individual presentation.
A costly mistake
When JW Broadcasting was first announced 11 months ago I said at the time it was great news. The worst thing the Governing Body could possibly do was reveal themselves to their doting followers. It is far easier to respect and admire your leaders when you can’t see or hear them. Having them thrusted at your TV screen or computer monitor in all their bumbling, arrogant, senile, jewelry-flashing glory changes the whole dynamic.
Yes, we have seen some extremely potent pieces of indoctrination designed to pull on the heart strings and appeal to people’s emotions. The standard episode will feature at least one visually appealing interview segment with powerful imagery and stirring music, in which a loyal Witness tears up as he or she relates how Jehovah’s hand has come to their rescue against all odds.
I will continue to do my best to expose these clearly coercive methods in my JW Broadcasting rebuttal videos. But I am growing increasingly confident that to any sincere, intellectually honest Witness capable of rudimentary reasoning skills, no rebuttals are needed. The delusion, absurdity and self-indulgence speaks for itself.
new-cedars-signature3
To see a list of video rebuttals to JW Broadcasting episodes, click here.
To read the JWfacts page on changes to the generation teaching, click here.
Share this:
in
Share
.
.
Like this:
Bookmark the permalink.
← Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
264 Responses to David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
← Older Comments
Newer Comments →
Ted says:
September 10, 2015 at 5:20 pm
Someone’s been holding out on me Garret, I didn’t know
about all these other goodies , but I’m getting a little bit
suspicious. My dad, bless his soul, always told me.
If anything sounds too good to be true, you can bet your
bottom dollar, it bloody well is. LOL.
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 10, 2015 at 5:27 pm
Greetings, folks. This is my first post. Check my math on this: If you’re born 10 minutes after Joseph dies, you’re NOT part of Joseph’s generation. Hmm… But what if you’re born 10 minutes BEFORE somebody dies who was born BEFORE Joseph and simply outlived him? You would NOT be part of Joseph’s generation, but you WOULD be part of someone’s generation who was born BEFORE him? David, you got some more Splanin’ to do… Weeeee! Critical thinking is fun. I just hate that I waited until I was in my 40’s to try it, lol. Yes, “lol” to keep from crying…
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 10, 2015 at 7:56 pm
Hmm, my first comment may be too clumsy of a thought to hold up to any scrutiny. My actual point is only to highlight the problem with the contrived SPECIFICITY of the GB’s definition of “generation”. It would’ve been better (slightly less terrible) if they would’ve simply said in 1995 that “this generation” refers to the people exhibiting the behaviors mentioned in the Bible regarding the time of the end, and left it open-ended. Although that too would’ve been an unconventional interpretation of “generation”, it would not have been as reprehensible as their bizarre, self-serving, total reimagining of the word. But, either way, they (the GB) are a rotten, deluded, self-righteous lot. Whenever they shoot themselves in the foot, it is a very welcome thing.
Sorry for replying to myself. I’m still dusting off the cobwebs of an underused brain.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 10, 2015 at 11:56 pm
@ JB Breezner. Don’t Worry about your first comment. I thought it was very good & not clumsy. WHAT IS CLUMSY is DAVID SPLANES DESCRIPTION of the GENERATION DOCTRINE!! I would even call it an UTTER CONFUSED SHAMBOLIC MESS!
Sorry if I haven’t been CLEAR ENOUGH about my description of the ‘MOST HOLY ANOINTED ??? KING & HIGH PRIEST DAVID SPLANE’
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 11, 2015 at 1:31 pm
LOL, that’s well said about Splane, Pickled brain! I agree wholeheartedly. And I thank you for the kind words regarding my comment.
Reply
Ruth says:
September 11, 2015 at 12:38 am
Or maybe they could use the fact that the generation that saw Jesus’ miracles did see the end of the Jewish system including the temple. (Jesus’ ministry ended 33 AD and Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD.) There is a comment in Matt 24:48 that the end would appear, from our point of view, to be delayed. Something has to give sometime – global warming will destroy us otherwise.
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 11, 2015 at 1:57 pm
Yes ma’am, that too would be better (less terrible) than the nonsense they settled on. As I look back, one of the things that freaks me out the most is that my goofy brain so readily accepted CONSTANT emphasis on how “no one can know the day and hour”, while AT THE SAME TIME being incessantly reminded that Armageddon is coming TOMORROW! BOTH messages being sent by the SAME source! Jeeez, I was a poster boy for cognitive dissonance.
Reply
Garrett says:
September 10, 2015 at 10:36 pm
Welcome JB Reezner!!!!
I do hope you at least brought the chips and salsa?
Don’t fail us right after your first post!
Did you bring Twinkies?
Best of wishes and glad to have you with us!
Thanks for your comments.
Garrett
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 11, 2015 at 2:15 pm
“Gracias” for the kind welcome, Garrett! I have no chips or salsa. I thought I’d get emails when people add to this post after I signed up, but I didn’t. I probably goofed something up. Anyway, that’s my excuse for not getting back to you SOONER. I will assume that, by now, you are warm and well fed and not needing my leftover scrambled eggs from lunch, lol.
Thanks again. I have been enjoying this site and the conversations taking place here for a few months now.
Reply
Excelsior! says:
September 11, 2015 at 3:51 am
JB Reezner,
Welcome to JW Survey, and all of us lovely people who comment here!
I thought your comment was spot on. I hope that your awakening from the undue influence goes smoothly and welcome to your freedom!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 11, 2015 at 5:43 pm
Thank you, Excelsior! I have been enjoying the excellent information (and brilliant presentation of it) offered by this site very much. The fascinating conversations and heartening camaraderie I find in the comments section is icing on the cake.
My awakening has been going fairly smoothly. My last meeting was 5 years ago. Fully awake within a year or so of that. A nice slow fade since then.
Thanks again, and peace be with you too!
Reply
Max says:
September 10, 2015 at 8:46 pm
One of the shocking things about this presentation is that there is NO mention at all of C.T. Russell! They have completely thrown him away.
Reply
ScotWm says:
September 10, 2015 at 10:03 pm
Max says: “… there is NO mention at all of C.T. Russell!”
The Watchtower’s asinine overlapping generation teaching is a desperate attempt to defend the long-expired 1914 cornerstone date. When David Splane gave the names of the first generation of anointed leaders, who recognized the sign of Christ’s presence in 1914, he left out the Watchtower’s founding father, Charles Taze Russell. However, Pastor Russell was 1914’s biggest cheerleader. Therefore, new light is needed to illuminate why the Governing Body threw Pastor Russell under the bus and left him out of the Watchtower faithful slave hall of fame:
The Watch Tower board of directors, known as the Governing Body, has claimed in their publications for the last 90 years that they and the remnant of the 144,000 are the modern version of the faithful and discrete slave, including their founding father, Charles Taze Russell. But until further notice, Pastor Russell has lost his previous status of being part of the slave class: “Were the Bible Students in the years that lead up to 1914 the appointed channel through which Christ would feed his sheep? No. They were still in the growing season, and the arrangement for a channel to provide spiritual food was taking shape. The time had not yet come for the weedlike imitation Christians to be separated from the true Christian wheat.” (Watchtower July 15, 2013 study edition p.19)
On the bright side, Pastor Russell does receive honorable mention for establishing the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society: “During the decades leading up to 1914, C. T. Russell and his close associates did a work like that of John the Baptizer. That vital work involved restoring Bible truths. The Bible Students taught the true meaning of Christ’s ransom sacrifice, exposed the hellfire lie, and proclaimed the coming end of the Gentile Times.” (Watchtower July 15, 2013 study edition p.11, p 6).
Having the Governing Body strip Pastor Russell of his former faithful slave status is the equivalent of having the Catholic Church claim that Saint Peter wasn’t really the first pope.
Reply
dontknowwheretogo says:
September 11, 2015 at 2:22 am
Thing is…Judge Rutherford was EVEN worse than Charlie boy for crazy doctrines and strange things thus they can wipe out CTR as being the FDS but not Rutherford…
Reply
ScotWm says:
September 11, 2015 at 8:44 am
RE: “Judge” Rutherford’s crackpot prophecies, such as this little gem:
“The indisputable facts, therefore, show that the “time of the end” began in 1799; that the Lord’s second presence began in 1874.” — Watchtower 1922 Mar 1 p.73.
If the Lord’s second presence hadn’t been moved up to 1914, the new light, which explains the overlapping generations, might have been introduced soon after Freddy Franz’ 1975 armageddon prophesy failed to materialize.
Reply
eyes opened says:
September 11, 2015 at 7:13 am
In the wbts own Insight books I believe they say a generation is about 33 yrs. So 33, 40 or anything there about is a long way from overlapping. Others have commented about using the Bible only. Yes my husband and I do too. Our ministry is also informal. Just nice conversations with people that we can commend and encourage. No telling them what they should or shouldn’t do. The sermon on the mount contains Jesus teachings on how to live a good life. That’s what we strive for and that’s what we see in others. Our job is one where we deal with the public and most of the people we meet in my experience try to lead honest and kind lives and they truly care about others. We no longer support the us versus them mentality. We do go to meetings occasionally but we have very little in common anymore. BTW the book Crisis of Conscience is an excellent read and so is his follow up book as well. Should be required reading before anyone gets baptized, haha.
Best Regards
Reply
Fatchance says:
September 11, 2015 at 5:24 am
Technically Russel was not a JW he was a Bible student. Rutherford didn’t just change the name to “JW” he actually branched off. Here is a link to the still existing International Bible Students.
http://www.internationalbiblestudents.com/about.html
Reply
ScotWm says:
September 11, 2015 at 9:29 am
RE: “Rutherford didn’t just change the name to “JW” he actually branched off.”
I’m assuming that Joseph Rutherford had some bible knowledge. Therefore, I have always wondered how he decided on the name he chose for his cult. These quotes are taken directly from the latest Watchtower bible rewrite:
There’s this one:
“You are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah, “Yes, my servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and have faith in me And understand that I am the same One. Before me no God was formed, And after me there has been none. (Isaiah 43:10)
And then there’s this one, where Paul is discussing the teachings of Jesus:
So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction. But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samari and to the most distant part of the earth.” (Acts 1: 6-8)
Rutherford chose “Jehovah’s Witnesses.” But he could just as easily have chosen “Jesus’ Witnesses.”
Reply
RC says:
September 12, 2015 at 1:17 am
Thanks Fatchance,
That is truly a treasure trove of early Watchtower teachings. Now let my cousin prove that these teachings were of Satan.
Reply
jon says:
September 11, 2015 at 1:15 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eo1O5qMaGU
See the youtube link to discover exactly how they came up with this new doctrine.
Reply
anonymous says:
September 11, 2015 at 2:53 am
jon, that video is hilarious!!! Thanks for sharing.
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 11, 2015 at 6:10 pm
That video almost KILLED me, I was laughing so hard! Thanks, I needed that.
Reply
ruthlee says:
September 11, 2015 at 1:22 am
Oh no how about a BOGOF (for the uninitiated buy one get one free) i still think the GB should have a lottery and the prize Everlasting life,. 2nd prize Eternal witnessing and a booby prize a tour of Crooklyn no expenses paid. seriously this maybe the deathstroke. im in a dilemma i still go preaching but ive stopped the drivel stuff i use my Bible only, actually im looking for Christians not JWS they can find thier own way there my dear old dad, if he were not pushing up daisies he would be spinning right now. had such belief in this bonkers religion im actually glad to be around now the way things are panning out is so interesting please keep the comments coming. the explanation about a generation being abot 40 years by one of the commenters is so logical the best explanation yet .who really wants to eat spoiled spiritual food only those so starved of healthy nourishing sustainance would raid the garbage can and scoff themselves.bread and wine anyone my place is fine.ruthlee
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 11, 2015 at 1:52 am
@ruth lee . I like your STYLE! I think the BOOBY PRIZE should be a Place in HEAVEN with the 7 MUSKETEERS!! BOY!! That would be HELL!!
Reply
ruthlee says:
September 11, 2015 at 1:23 pm
tee hee pickled brain
Reply
Excelsior! says:
September 11, 2015 at 4:09 am
Ruthlee,
It’s great to read that you and Mr Perez are using your bibles only.
Although I am an atheist, I acknowledge that there are some positive messages in the bible, and many folks find it beneficial to have a faith.
I would encourage all of us to examine the world scientifically and critically.
Any Truth can withstand even the most critical scrutiny.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
Jake says:
September 11, 2015 at 1:25 am
Surely the Watchtowers generation teaching is a nonsense. Could it be easily argued, in the context of the of the 1st century generation, that the generation who “witnessed all these things” began with uprising of the Jewish nation against the Romans in 66 C.E.?
Reply
Mc fan says:
September 11, 2015 at 2:29 am
Has anyone been to the Website of the International BIble Students Assosiation? They claim that they have never had anything to do with JWs. They also claim that Bible Students did not evolve into JWs. They are 2 separate movements. If Jesus chose the BIble Students in 1919(as JWs did not exist yet) than why are not all JWs BIble students. Are JWs the original apostates of the IBSA?
Reply
anonymous says:
September 11, 2015 at 2:59 am
Mc fan, yes they are the original apostates of the IBSA but you have to have awakened to the real truth about the truth to realize that.
Last night I woke up in the night with yet another nightmare about trying to tell a former “friend” about the real truth about the truth.
When do the nightmares end? I hate that religion more than anybody can possibly know that is unless you are going through the same thing so that you know what I am talking about.
I wished I could move away from here to start all over again but I can’t leave because I’d be leaving behind one of my children who are still in the cult.
Reply
Excelsior! says:
September 11, 2015 at 3:48 am
anonymous,
I’m sorry to read about your nightmare, dear Lady.
Maybe it’s time for a break from all this? There are many of us here, and we can take up any slack.
You don’t owe anyone anything, and if this is making you upset, then there’s no shame in taking a break or walking away.
I for one do not judge anyone for what they do or don’t do in the battle against the WTBTS.
Take care of yourself, and I hope that you find some comfort from your pain.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
anonymous says:
September 11, 2015 at 1:47 pm
@Excelsior. Thank you for the kind thoughts. I think what I am going through is Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. I have heard other people talk about it and I think that that is what I am experiencing and all of us who are experiencing waking up from the indoctrination are probably suffering from the same thing.
We wouldn’t have to suffer like this if we weren’t in a cult that expels any of us who would speak out so that we could warn our loved ones and friends but we can’t. That is what makes it so hard on us and that is what the Society has planned for us to punish us for speaking out. It is evil and sadistic but that is what they want and I will not let it conquer me.
I come to read comments here all through the day and it’s those comments are what get me through the day.
I wished I could just walk away from the JW religion and live my life and be happy without all those former “friends” but I do think the only way people can walk away from it is to move far, far away where nobody can hound you about it into “coming” back but probably for most of us, that isn’t possible.
So, this web site is really a life saver for me and I am sure for a lot of other people such as myself also.
Thanks Cedars for thinking of doing this web site and keeping it up!!! I am so grateful to you and your family for everything you have done here.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 11, 2015 at 9:19 pm
@Anonymous . EXCELLENT COMMENTS. Yes MANIPULATION by 7 EVIL MEN!!
JESUS CHRIST NEVER NEVER SHUNNED ANYONE!! Jesus spoke to the Pharisees continuously EVEN though they had Twisted the Scriptures so they ignored Love,Justice&Mercy !!
Jesus didn’t ignore Judas .He carried on speaking to him right through the ‘Last Supper’ & allowed Judas to associate with the rest of the Apostles!! NO SHUNNING of JUDAS by JESUS!!
Take care Anonymous! Keep on speaking out! MANY JWs are READING THIS SITE! & YES CEDARS (Lloyd) is DOING A BRILLIANT SERVICE TO HUMANITY in Highlighting WATCHTOWER ABUSE!!
David says:
September 11, 2015 at 3:19 am
If this generation in the first century fulfilment was 37 years why in the second fulfilment (it their speculation is right) it can be 160 years? This is total madness, is putting your entire trust in the hands of other men. This can happen because they do not study their own history which is full of speculation and wishful thinking.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 11, 2015 at 9:28 pm
@David . YOUR ANALYSIS HAS NAILED the UTTER FOOLISHNESS of Following 7 MEN in BROOKLYN & Not just Following OUR OWN REASONING & Particularly our OWN BIBLE TRAINED CONSCIENCES instead of Following the FLIP FLOP CONSCIENCES of 7 EVIL MEN who tried to HIDE CHILD ABUSE BY ELDERS by Not Reporting one Case out of 1006 JW Child Abusers in Australia as Highlighted by the Royal Commission instead the Watchtower has been Paying TENS of MILLIONS in Compensation to Victims to Silence them! ABSOLUTELY SICKENING!! JESUS WOULD be ASHAMED of these 7 EVIL MEN !
Reply
ruthlee says:
September 11, 2015 at 5:00 am
thanks for all the kind words to me. to anon i really understand you wanting to move away i too would like to do this but i have kids in school still trying gently not to promote being unbtzd pubs im stalling for time its so difficult but this site is the voice of reason and non judgement. we are all wiiling to hear what others have to say so plod on like me doing the discreet thing at the moment .i reckon if God is running the show (of life) He will make it very plain when it is time to jump ship peace and love to you, ruthlee
Reply
John freeman says:
September 11, 2015 at 1:17 pm
I also think i will have to jump ship.
Have been in since 60s i have now woken up . Most of my family are jw including wife . So i have similar problem. I have faded but still take wife to meetings . Its hard to sit throgh it now i notice all the mind control methods now i dont care much if members of cong shun me but worry how to deal with wife and close family . I get so depressed having to sit at meetings and listen to the nonsense . I have told her the time is coming when ill drop her off and pick up latter . It ses although i am mentaly free i feel even more trapped now i know what a complete waste of time it is.
Reply
Ocma says:
September 11, 2015 at 7:58 pm
John, I know how you feel.
After leaving, and having not attended a meeting in over a year, I agreed to attend a special meeting with my mother, I think it was 2008, where the congregation listened to a brother from the GB give a talk via the phone loop (I can’t remember which one).
The entire thing was painfully boring. I don’t remember him saying anything special, nothing new. Hardly worth all the excitement the brothers and sisters were showing before the meeting started.
I am still amazed that after that last attendance, that I was never requested to meet with the elders.
I stood during the 3 songs, but did not sing and wouldn’t even look at the song book my mum was trying to share with me.
My mum passed me a bible, I placed it on the ground, I didn’t care to follow along. I know people were watching me. And I know it was obvious to everyone that I did not want to be there.
When I walked out that day, I knew, I would never go back. Not for a memorial to keep people happy, not for a funeral, not for money! Once you wake up, it’s a brain killing, soul destroying place to be. I hope you can fade quietly with no hassle from your family.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 11, 2015 at 9:36 pm
@John Freeman . I am in a Similar Situation as you . & when you realise the MANIPULATION TECHNIQUES Used Especially on TV.JW.Org with the EMOTIONAL MUSIC in the BACKGROUND & at Least one JW voice Quivering near to tears ! You can see These 7 MEN are Very CRAFTY & will APPEAL to the EMOTIONALLY VULNERABLE!! VERY VERY SAD !
Reply
Grace says:
September 11, 2015 at 11:03 pm
I really feel for you guys, those feelings you talk about were dominating my life before the ARC.
I wish that you could have your own Royal Commission or something similar. I’m so thankful for it happening here as it has freed me to go out & live my life again. I’ve been going to the local shopping centre a fair bit lately & have not run into one Witness there. I stopped going there because it didn’t matter what time or day, there would always be someone there. Not lately, they seem to have disappeared of the face of the earth.
My husband & I haven’t even seen them out witnessing or manning the cart (which is only allowed to be put at the KH by council). They seem to be very quiet here at the moment & it’s a small community, they normally stand out here.
I’m actually wondering how many are questioning their faith here. It may have gone quiet but I think the seeds have been planted & it’s just a matter of time for it grow.
It has given me so much more confidence with the thought of running into someone & not letting them affect me anymore. I’ve been ready to say something if they’re game enough to talk to me.
Reply
Excelsior! says:
September 12, 2015 at 5:14 am
Grace,
Fantastic news! I am so happy that you were able to have your right to a normal day, going where you wanted to go and do what you wanted to do.
The ARC has inoculated a lot of people to the WTBTS. Let’s hope your physical freedom continues!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Daniel Roberts says:
September 11, 2015 at 5:47 am
How does the GB explain this then if the word ‘generation’ means 2 groups of people overlapping in lifespan?
From Matthew 1.17
All the generations, then, from Abraham until David were 14 generations; from David until the deportation to Babylon, 14 generations; from the deportation to Babylon until the Christ, 14 generations.
Can’t be any clearer.. this scripture rams home how generation is intended to be understood.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 11, 2015 at 9:42 pm
@ Daniel . YOU ARE SO RIGHT!! MATTHEW EXPLAINS ‘ GENERATION ‘ Perfectly! Make it COMPLICATED that the Ordinary JW Can’t Understand & one sister says she just leaves everything to the GB to work out !! SAD, SAD & SAD!
What about 1 John ch.4 v1,2 where it says ‘TEST EVERY INSPIRED EXPRESSION ‘ Even more so Uninspired ones ??
Reply
Daniel Roberts says:
September 12, 2015 at 3:08 pm
Totally. So much for the Boreans.. seeing if these things are true…. Honestly I think that the JW way of life appeals to the human ego. The whole “we are right – we are chosen – we are special -You are not”
Admitting you are wrong and have been for many years is too much for some people and they would rather continue to delude themselves.. even though they know that it is a delusion.
Reply
It'sJustMe says:
September 11, 2015 at 6:00 am
Their smiles on their tv.jw, I mean the smile of all the seven members of the governing body is anything but natural. Where does their strange and constraint smile come from ? Has their heavenly crown become too heavy for each of them ? Or does it come from their inherent hypocrisy ? Or maybe is it due to the fact that before they are TV speaking they have swallowed an huge anti-depressant, inciting them not to call into question the new lights they are disclosing to their co-domestics greedy for new spiritual food ?
Reply
Richard says:
September 11, 2015 at 7:28 am
Their asses must be sore from pulling out that massive turd. How any half-way intelligent human being can fall for this obvious scam is beyond me. You must really be brainwashed to not see the obvious lies at this point.
Reply
James Broughton says:
September 11, 2015 at 8:33 am
Well done Lloyd. Cedars at his best when exposing the organisation for what it is. A sham.
Reply
Exhausted says:
September 11, 2015 at 8:46 am
The Society should put out a booklet entitled ” The Generations Theory for Dummies”. Because that is
Exactly what it looked like to me. They could have tag
Lines like…. The book that keeps on ticking… Or How
Loooonnnngggg can we pull it off???? How about Is
Your generation as flexible as ours?
I also like “LUCY…You got some splaining to do!!!”
Anyhow it couldn’t be any worse.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 11, 2015 at 9:55 am
@Exhausted. HOW ABOUT ‘ The Who’ ‘ MY GENERATION ‘ song & one of the verses in the Song is ….,’I HOPE I DIE Before I GET OLD’!!!!
How about’ I hope I die Before the GB come up with NEW LIGHT on the ‘ Generation ”
The BIGGEST DUMMIES are the Rank & File who fall for their CHOP& CHANGE DRIVEL !!
Reply
Ted says:
September 11, 2015 at 9:01 am
Robertperez,
Hi again Robert , In a previous post I said the GB were stuck
with 1914. You replied, “They didn’t predict the date, so they
have no obligation whatsoever to hold to it. I agree, 1914 did
not originate with the present GB.
They did not father the child, but they definitely “Adopted it.
( “There is more evidence for 1914 than for Gravity or electricity”
A recent comment by Stephen Lett.). Wouldn’t you say then
that they do have an obligation to hold to it? Not that, that will
prevent them from abandoning it, if they think it’s advantageous.
As you suggest, they could morph into a “Keep preaching and
leave the rest to JHVH, mindset. Some recent talks and articles
indicate that’s the direction they’re taking.
I can only see the growth rate plummeting, in my long experience
in the religion, I’ve noticed very few have the same enthusiasm for
the preaching work as you do.
What’s kept the bros, knocking on doors and being told to F, Off
or I’ll set the dogs on you, etc, Has been the teaching, of the
need to work your passage through the imminent slaughter of
Armageddon and into a new world. All based on the 1914
doctrine. As I’ve said already, it’s a noose around their necks
that’s getting tighter.
Reply
ScotWm says:
September 11, 2015 at 9:50 am
Stephen Lett likened the invisible 1914 kingdom to other invisible things, such as gravity, electricity and wind. What more proof do we need?
The Watchtower’s Governing Body has definitely adopted the 1914 teaching and will go to whatever lengths deemed necessary in order to defend it.
The Watchtower (Simplified Edition) January 2014 featured an article entitled “100 Years of Kingdom Rule—How Does It Affect You?”, which uses plenty of out of context scriptures to fully explain the 1914 doctrine to those with simple minds. Read all about it here:
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/ws20140115/100-years-kingdom-rule/
Reply
al etheredge says:
September 11, 2015 at 11:28 am
Yes, they could opt out of the repetitive rounds of predictions (and failures) with this new doctrine, but I don’t think they will. They are too attracted to the increased membership and donations such predictions bring about.
Reply
Steve McRoberts says:
September 11, 2015 at 10:41 am
Great comments, and excellent points! I just read them all, but two things I didn’t see mentioned, so I’ll add my two cents:
1. Contrary to what Splane claims, Franz et al., did not “understand” the significance of 1914 at the time; they expected it to be the END of the last days — not their start.
2. Splane asks: “What did Joseph and his brothers have in common?” Um… a father? They were of the same “generation” because they had been “generated” out of Jacob’s “loins.” It’s quite a stretch to apply this to “anyone alive at the same time.” That is not what “generation” has meant to anyone — ever!
I’d better never hear a Witness complaining about “the generation gap”; there can be no generation gap when everyone alive is of the same generation. (I wonder if there have been any WT/Awake articles on the generation gap; these will be old light now!)
Reply
Exhausted says:
September 11, 2015 at 10:50 am
In Ray,s book, I forget which one of the governing body
Members it was, but he was frustrated with the whole thing and made the comment that we got that from the
Adventists. I remember that because it stunned me at
The time to read such a revelation as that, having grown
Up in the truth. I had never heard of any connection to
Adventists, Millerites, or whatever other leanings CTR
Had up his sleeve. Pyramidology was never mentioned
During my lifetime, nor was Beth Sarim, or 1874 or 1799
And these dates were predicted before CTR was even born. I also remember attending a Corporate meeting
In Pittsburgh in 1968 and they played a movie of CTR
Pacing the stage giving one of his sermons on film of
Course and all praise was being given to him. Now, you
Don’t hear anything at all about him in those reverent terms. ????? Even though I was only about 15 at the
Time, I remember it like it was yesterday. Things really
Have changed drastically. So glad to be out.
Reply
Exhausted says:
September 11, 2015 at 10:52 am
Oh the frustration was in regards to 1914 of course.
Forgot to preface that.
Reply
rob says:
September 11, 2015 at 11:35 am
This religion has created such a conundrum of “new light” and rules and false prophecies. If asked, the average witness will never be able to explain the following:
Overlapping generations?
Who exactly is the King of the North?
What are blood fractions?
policy on child abuse?
Shunning?
Who’s on first?
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 11, 2015 at 1:09 pm
@Rob. GOOD POINTS!!
How about adding
1) Gog & Magog
2)F&D Slave
3)Sheep&Goats
4)Organ Transplants
5) Vaccinations
6)Superior Authorities
ANY MORE, ANYONE????
Reply
Ted says:
September 11, 2015 at 12:10 pm
GB, Do the honourable thing and issue a full and unreserved
apology to all the people who have put their lives on hold.
People who have forgone marriage and the joy of children,
Those who have missed out on a good education and career.
Ones who have spent their lives working for you without
proper wages and are left with little support in old age.
And all because of a dogmatic adherence to a long ago failed
prediction based on the year 1914. A date that you insist was
given to you by God.
Spare us the usual rhetoric, that in their desire to see gods plan
fulfilled bros, have run ahead of the org, and raised false
expectations in their mind. You and you alone are the ones who
are responsible for these bogus assumptions. SHAME ON YOU.
Reply
ruthlee says:
September 11, 2015 at 1:32 pm
here here ted and so say all of us ruthlee
Reply
Cedar Sullivan says:
September 11, 2015 at 12:33 pm
When will Mr. Cedars grow up. Stick to your web donations. These guys keep winning. Come to Naija for more church business…
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 11, 2015 at 2:31 pm
@Cedar Sullivan . Sorry I am a bit slow. Are you insulting the CEDARS WEBSITE ‘ ???
& Excuse me as I have been a JW for 35 years so my brain is not used to thinking properly,but WHAT is NAIJA?? Is it some JAPANESE NINJA TURTLE Version of STEPHEN LETT???
Please forgive my IGNORANCE as I have been Brainwashed, sorry I meant spiritually Led by the F& D Slave???
Reply
Innocent Son says:
September 11, 2015 at 12:41 pm
I’ve a feeling that David Spline and the rest of the G B are going to have to keep explaining the Generation teaching more and more. You see it just doesn’t make sense, rather it causes more confusion! The sad part is I think the G B are so deluded they actually believe all this nonsense… These 7 clowns dressed in comic book suits are ‘ Barking Mad ‘ and DO NOT REPRESENT ANY GOD I KNOW…
Reply
Pete says:
September 11, 2015 at 1:08 pm
So the GB have rewritten the Bible to suit their Dogma and now they are trying desperately to re-write the English dictionary to suit their Dogma as well. These guy’s are just plain nuts! Who ties their shoelaces? With two thirds of JW kids quitting the cult as soon as they’re able, (because kids usually have good BS detectors) the arrival of the internet providing instant information sharing and giving cults no place to hide, the WT being caught with their pants down and totally shamed by the Aust. Royal Commission and sites like this, it’s only a matter of time before the house of cards comes tumbling down. Anybody who can’t now see it for what it is, is either totally blind or has a deep seated desire to be led and told what to do. I recently presented my JW mother with a logical question which she couldn’t answer so she rang my JW sister who in turn rang an elder. The cult have these people thinking and behaving like primary school children who can’t even think for themselves and go running to the headmaster for an answers.
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 12, 2015 at 3:08 pm
Well said, Pete! And your comment about kids having good BS detectors reminded me of my non-JW niece. Years ago, when she was a child, I would occasionally take her to the meetings with me. Recently, I divulged to her that I no longer subscribe to JW doctrine (I think the term I used was actually “horse s#!*”). I apologized for having exposed her to it, but she said, “It’s not a big deal. I never believed any of it anyway.” With that, I felt small and stupid myself, but very proud of HER!
I wish for your family members the same enlightenment that so many are experiencing these days. The GB seems determined to keep making their hooey harder and harder to swallow.
Reply
1914 ha ha ha says:
September 11, 2015 at 1:32 pm
Give enough rope and they will hang themselves.Hence the money grabs etc, they know they are running out of time & members. I only hope im alive to see it!
Reply
1914 ha ha ha says:
September 11, 2015 at 1:56 pm
As the saying goes,”trick me once, shame on me! Trick me twice,shame on you” wbts are a bunch of (feel free to fill in the blanks):)
Reply
Awake! says:
September 11, 2015 at 5:04 pm
I can think of many, many terms I could use for the WTBTS, to ‘fill in your blanks’, however I fear my post would be deleted. Someone recently suggested that the 9/11 terrorists should have targeted the WT Headquarters rather than the WTC, because, in their words, “terrorists need to kill terrorists.” Their final word was “Sorry.” I replied, “Don’t be sorry”, and both those posts were deleted! I suppose making those kinds of comments is too politically incorrect and inflammatory, unlike molesting innocent children , brainwashing the masses, cutting people off from their families, ruining people’s lives with bald-faced lies and cynical manipulation techniques, and keeping millions captive in a ritualistic cult based on worshipping a mental idol (“Jehovah”). I suppose we wouldn’t want to ruffle anyone’s feathers, especially the “high and mighty” GB up there in their Ivory Tower. Maybe I’m just a bad person for agreeing with that (deleted) post.
By the way, your “handle” reminded me of something I was thinking of just today. The WTBTS has always made such a big deal about “nailing” 1914 as a pivotal year i.e. the outbreak of “World War I”. But WWI is only WWI because we call it that. It was really just another European war, fought, as usual, between the French, British, and Germans. The U.S. didn’t get involved until 1917. Was there fighting in North America? South America? Australia? Africa? India? Russia? China? Japan? Thailand??? So it really wasn’t a “world war”, was it? Yes, there were tremendous casualties, but only due to technology (the machine gun, artillery, air power), and the belligerents’ stubbornness in continuing to send more and more troops into the slaughter. And, of course, it was a war which involved primarily white Europeans and North Americans (“Westerners”), so naturally it was EVENTUALLY dubbed “WORLD War I” (originally the Great War). Doubt it would have been WWI if it occurred in Latin America or Australia or Africa! Russell and his cronies could have thrown out one of many other dates and still “nailed” a “major” war – how about the Boer War, Spanish Civil War, WWII, the Korean War,the French IndoChina War, the Vietnam War, any one of the countless Middle Eastern wars, Bosnia, Rwanda, even other earthshaking events like the stock market crash of 1929, Mount St. Helen’s, Chernobyl, 9/11, etc. Sh*t happens. All the time. Anyone can make predictions, and statistically speaking, be correct from time to time. Once again, WTBTS and the GB, proven to be a bunch of nothings and nobodies, with no mystical powers and no connection to any Divinity, “Jehovah” or not!!!
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 11, 2015 at 9:56 pm
@Awake. EXCELLENT ANALYSIS!!
Reply
Ocma says:
September 11, 2015 at 7:44 pm
“If you don’t understand this, it is not due to any failure on your part. It is because it doesn’t make sense. ” – This gave me a good chuckle :)
It really doesn’t make any sense. I never understood the 607 explanation either ‘there’s no year 0 so minus one year and you get the answer’. Um, what?
They are crazy for spouting all this ‘new light’, as though it really is factual.
And, at the end of the day, no one is supposed to know when ‘God’ is coming, so why do they keep trying to pin point it??
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 11, 2015 at 10:01 pm
@Ocma . Exactly as Jesus said he didn’t KNOW the DAY or HOUR !!! Matthew 24v34-36 BUT SILLY ME David SPLANE Knows MORE Than JESUS!!
Reply
Ocma says:
September 13, 2015 at 5:46 pm
Ha! They just love to think they’re so clever, and they want everyone to know it, and gush over them. Nothing discreet about them. The GB is truly out of touch with reality.
Reply
Kat says:
September 11, 2015 at 8:34 pm
great post Ocma
Reply
minion says:
September 11, 2015 at 9:17 pm
I also ask the same question, why Chuckie T. Russell was omitted and forgotten, since he was the founder of the IBSA, allegedly known today as JWs.
Someone posted a link to IBSA, so I researched and found this, this is an excerpt and for informational purposes:
Brother Russell Founded the Bible Students, not Jehovah’s Witnesses
This early Bible Student history book is written by Bro. Ken Rawson, a Bible Student elder who knew more Bible Students from Pastor Russell’s and JF Rutherford’s time than any other Bible Student elder alive today.
After the death of Pastor Russell in 1916, the purpose of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society changed drastically. Joseph Rutherford, whom Pastor Russell had recently dismissed from his staff, seized legal control of the Watch Tower, dismissed the majority of the Board of Directors, and established dictatorial authority. The Watch Tower became the central head and authority over all congregations willing to yield their sovereignty. Basic doctrines of the “new society” seriously digressed from the teachings of Pastor Russell as the writings of Pastor Russell were discarded. The methods of conducting the evangelistic work were altered. The more sensational digressions, such as refusing blood transfusion and saluting the flag, caught the public’s eye. But many individuals and whole congregations refused to surrender their Christian liberty or accept the new teachings. As early as 1917, the exodus from the newly declared sovereign headquarters
began. By 1918 one-fourth of the Bible Students left Judge Rutherford and remained true to the teachings of the late Pastor Russell.
Info found under history link, at IBSA.
I did not know.
Peace out,
Reply
mcfan says:
September 11, 2015 at 9:31 pm
minion,
Exactly!
The truth is that JWs have only existed since 1931!
They only mention Russell in their history for HISTORICAL DEPTH! Imagine in 1961 going door to door trying explain to people that your religion has only existed for 30 years.
Reply
mcfan says:
September 11, 2015 at 9:35 pm
More people might want to check out the website of the International Bible Students Association and go to: Bible Students Are not Jehovah,s Witnesses.
VERY MUST SEE STUFF!
Reply
minion says:
September 12, 2015 at 8:52 pm
@ mcfan,
Consider this:
1). Chuckie T. Russell a Christian, not a JW.
2). Judge Rutherford once a Christian, now an apostate made his own religion known as JWs.(1931)
3). The man known as Jesus Christ was a Christian, not a JWs.
4). IBSA the true enchilada, founded by Chuckie T. Russell still exist.
5). Where do we go, someone asked? . . you decide.
Lloyd keep the ‘true New Light shine ever brighter’.
Peace out,
Reply
Rose Graziano says:
September 12, 2015 at 4:47 am
To top it all off David Splane during his explanation of the Generations had the nerve to say “we are not saying this for sure but “Lets’s just assume for arguments sake”
Reply
Freedom is good says:
September 12, 2015 at 6:53 am
I feel so good to realize how false this religion is.Just thinking of how to exit since i have family members in.
Reply
alain says:
September 12, 2015 at 7:38 am
Hi Lloyd!
Another good article. I’ve just seen D. Splane’s video on JW Broadcasting. It’s quite surprising to hear that all the actual GB members are contemporary of the first generation, included Mark SANDERSON. M. SANDERSON is 50 this year: he was born in 1965… Does that mean he was anointed in his early twenties? At least , before 1992?
Reply
FadingFast says:
September 12, 2015 at 1:23 pm
I was thinking the same. I wonder if his life story is written down anywhere? I think he grew up in the San Diego area and served in Newfoundland, Canada before coming to Brooklyn. Not married as far as I can tell.
Reply
1914 ha ha ha says:
September 12, 2015 at 8:54 am
Do not put your trust in the sons of men. Well theres no use even trying to use the bible to reason with most jws, deut 18 20 to 22 erm false prophets.Just watch there eyes glaze over.So sad.
Reply
ScotWm says:
September 12, 2015 at 9:48 am
David Splane, his six Governing Body associates and other helpers have been feeding us some very complicated spiritual food lately. Honest hearted ones can appreciate what a loving provision we were given when David Splane provided us with a detailed explanation of the overlapping generations. This was indeed spiritual food delivered at the proper time.
I have always been curious as to how the spirit anointed Governing Body members receive the heavenly guidance they so lovingly share with us. I finally found the answer. This heavenly guidance is communicated directly to the anointed remnant through angels:
“These angels are invisible to human eyes and are there to carry out the orders of the Lord. No doubt they first hear the instruction which the Lord issues to his remnant and then these invisible messengers pass such instruction on to the remnant. The facts show that the angels of the Lord with him at his temple have been thus rendering sacred service unto the remnant since 1919.” (Vindication, 1932, vol.3, p.250)
“The remnant do not hear audible sounds, because such is not necessary. Jehovah has provided his own good way to convey thoughts to the minds of his anointed ones. To all on the outside of the organization of Jehovah his is a secret organization.” (Preparation, 1933, p.64)
So, there you go. We can rest assured that “the facts show” angelic direction is the source of all Watchtower prophesies and doctrine. The first spirit anointed generation would recognize Christ’s invisible presence in 1914 and this first generation would be followed by another spirit anointed generation which would overlap the first generation.
Reply
anonymous says:
September 12, 2015 at 5:43 pm
@ScotWm, according to the Revelation It’s Grand Climax At Hand! on page 125, the Watchtower doesn’t really know for sure where they get their “spiritual” guidance from. This is the way it read, starting on page 124 under the Subheading “The Great Crowd Makes It’s Appearance”:
“From the time of the apostle John and on into the Lord’s day, anointed Christians were puzzled as to the identity of the great crowd. It is fitting, then, that one of the 24 elders, representing anointed ones already in heaven, should stir John’s thinking by raising a pertinent question. “And in response one of the elders said to me: ‘These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?’ So right away I said to him: ‘My lord, you are the one that knows.'” (Revelation 7:13,14a) Yes, the elder could locate the answer and give it to John. This suggests that resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today.”
If you pay attention to that paragraph, it is saying that there were already anointed ones in heaven and they “might” have stirred John’s thinking when he wrote what he did at that scripture at Revelation and that when the anointed today are resurrected to heaven, that they “may” be involved in the communicating of divine truths today.
So, who knows where those “stirrings of divine truth” are coming from since the Society says “may” be involved. They don’t say it’s coming from angels in that paragraph.
Reply
ScotWm says:
September 12, 2015 at 9:59 pm
RE: “@ScotWm, according to the Revelation It’s Grand Climax At Hand! on page 125, the Watchtower doesn’t really know for sure where they get their “spiritual” guidance from.”
It is interesting that Watchtower leaders would admit that they don’t know the source of their spiritually-inspired false prophesies. It must be a real challenge to determine where the divine guidance ends and the hallucinations begin.
Joseph Rutherford claimed that once the Lord arrived at his temple in 1918 and gathered together unto himself the chosen ones, guidance from the holy spirit would no longer be necessary because Christ would be present among his chosen ones. Rutherford then claimed that communication with Jesus was relayed to him and his anointed brethren by angels or ministering spirits. After Rutherford’s death, Watchtower leaders once again claimed that they are guided by the holy spirit.
Rather than elaborate on the pathetic ramblings of a totally-discredited former Watchtower leader, the website below has a very good analysis of the active force that has been guiding the Watchtower:
http://freeminds.org/psych/activfor.htm
Reply
anonymous says:
September 13, 2015 at 3:10 am
“The remnant do not hear audible sounds, because such is not necessary. Jehovah has provided his own good way to convey thought to the minds of his anointed ones. To all on the outside of the organization of Jehovah his is a secret organization. ibid., p. 64″
ScotWm, I cut and pasted that quote from the article you posted and find it quite telling.
From what I gather from that quote is the they don’t need to hear voices but whatever comes to their mind is coming from God??? That seems really convenient. It sounds an awful lot like how Joseph Smith got his information from Jesus. Nobody was a witness to the event and he lost his evidence but as long as he said it happened, that is good enough for eighteen million Mormons. The story is so implausible that there’s a popular play about it here in the U.S. called the “Book of Mormon” and it’s quite funny from what I have heard about it.
Reply
Kevin says:
September 12, 2015 at 11:21 am
The one thing that bugs me about 1914 was IIRC it was predicted before then that Jesus would kick out Satan and begin his rule. World War I started presumably because Satan was pissed and “closer” to the earth. Coincidence?
Reply
Excelsior! says:
September 13, 2015 at 4:48 am
Kevin,
The WTBTS used to state that Satan and his buddies were cast out in October. WW1 started in August.
WW1 could have started the year before, but a compromise that satisfied no one was reached.
No one has definitive proof that any of these “spirit creatures” exist.
So, yes, it is a coincidence.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
Ted says:
September 12, 2015 at 11:47 am
JWs were an apostate schism from the Bible Students, or
Russellites. Enforced by the bully boy tactics of the big judge.
( That’s Rutherford, not the other big judge )
But one thing common to both groups was the fixation on the
year 1914, which resulted in embarrassment for each of them.
Ray Franz stated, “For 30 years they were looking forward to
1914, and now for 80 years they have been looking back at it.
( add 21 years since Ray’s statement.)
The looking forward was to the “End” of all trouble in that year
not the “Beginning”, ( Zion’s WT July 15, 1894 p226 ),
History proves that was a complete failure, despite claiming
“These are God’s dates not ours”.
The looking back to 1914 has been a reversal of Russell’s
teaching. Now 1914 is claimed to be the “Beginning” of
of trouble, ( Not the end of it as predicted by Russell ). The
trouble is foretold to end within the generation of people
alive in that key year.
That generation has long gone, even many of the following
generation ( To which I belong,) have already handed their
chips in. I’m still hanging on at 84.
You can look at that date, forwards or backwards. or from
any angle you like. It has no meaning or relevance to Bible
prophecy. I’m really sorry if you’ve invested a great deal in
It, You’ve lost your stake, the horse was a nag.
Reply
ruthlee says:
September 13, 2015 at 12:16 pm
bless you Ted 84 and still fighting fit good on you bro gives us all hope love and peace ruthlee
Reply
FadingFast says:
September 12, 2015 at 1:15 pm
Strange how an organization can spend decades condemning “Christendom” for “incomprehensible” and confusing doctrines such as the Trinity, and not see the irony of teaching their own convoluted dogma.
Reply
Garrett says:
September 12, 2015 at 1:39 pm
Lloyd/ Cedars
I would love to see you do another type of survey.
Namely, what do you think will be the future of the WT.
Crumble? In how many years? Limp on? For how many years? Etc. in other words, what do we all predict will be her fate/ future?
It would be fun.
Reply
Innocent Son says:
September 12, 2015 at 1:50 pm
It’s about time the 7 men in charge of the Borg came clean and admitted they got key teachings wrong! However I won’t be holding my breath as that would make them fallible and PROVE THEY DON’T HAVE HOLY SPIRIT!
Reply
← Older Comments
Newer Comments →
Leave a Reply
Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *
Name *
Email *
Website
Comment
You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>
applications-education-miscellaneous.png
Comment posting guidelines:
Kindly observe the following requirements before posting any comments to our articles or pages:
◾ABUSIVE COMMENTS - Do not post comments that include swear words or may be considered abusive, lewd, blasphemous, obscene or threatening
◾ILLEGAL COMMENTS - Do not post comments that condone or propose illegal activity, or that breach copyright law
◾OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS - Do not post comments that are off-topic and bear no relation to the page or article
◾RELIGIOUS NEUTRALITY - Do not post comments that are evangelical in nature or may be construed as imposing one person's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) over those of another
◾LANGUAGE - Visitors from all countries and language groups are welcome. You may post comments in languages other than English, but we would appreciate if you could make any such comments brief. We would also be grateful if you could run any such comments through Google Translate and convert these to English, but this is not an absolute requirement.
◾LINKS - You may post links to third party websites, so long as (1) you limit these to 2 links per comment, and (2) the content on these links doesn't contravene ANY of the first four points. Specifically, you may not post URLs to websites that are evangelical in nature. Our links page has an extensive list of such sites for any who are curious about Christian beliefs in the context of Jehovah's Witnesses.
JWSurvey.org thanks all visitors in advance for respectfully observing these guidelines. Any who persistently fail to do so, despite warnings, may find themselves blocked from making further comments at the discretion of the site moderators, whose decision will be final and not open for debate.
Notify me of new posts by email.
Click on
Visit JWfacts.com for more information on JW beliefs
Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses
JW Recovery forum
Barbara Anderson's Watchtower Documents resource
Visit JWstruggle.com for helpful information on exiting JW mind control Visit TAZE.co for discussion on Jehovah's Witness developments
Support JWsurvey
Help us make continued improvements to this website and its content.
Article Categories
◾Apostates (28)
◾Blood transfusions (12)
◾Books (5)
◾Cedars' Blog (211)
◾Cedars' Story (4)
◾Celebrity JWs (2)
◾Child Abuse (51)
◾Child Indoctrination (16)
◾Divine Direction (4)
◾Domestic Abuse (2)
◾Doomsday Predictions (1)
◾Downsizing (7)
◾Evolution and creation (6)
◾General Information (1)
◾Governing Body (34)
◾Higher education (3)
◾History and scandals (6)
◾JW.org (8)
◾Life Stories (10)
◾Mental health (5)
◾Mini-Surveys (5)
◾News (191)
◾Property sales (5)
◾Publications (6)
◾Shunning (13)
◾Support (6)
◾Survey (11)
◾Undue influence (16)
◾Warwick headquarters (4)
Search JWsurvey
Subscribe to JW Survey
Enter your email address to receive notices of new posts by email.
Join 836 other subscribers
Email Address
Listen to JWpodcast
Check out the latest episode of JW podcast!
Latest John Cedars video
Popular JW sites in other languages
Languages
More languages...
Select... Croatian Czech Dutch Estonian Finnish 1 Finnish 2 French 1 French 2 French 3 German 1 German 2 Hungarian Italian 1 Italian 2 Italian 3 Japanese Polish 1 Polish 2 Polish 3 Portuguese 1 Portuguese 2 Romanian Russian 1 Russian 2 Russian 3 Serbian 1 Serbian 2 Serbian 3 Slovak Spanish 1 Spanish 2
Top Posts & Pages
David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
Following the "Return to Jehovah" release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
Following the "Return to Jehovah" release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
Links
Links
JW Broadcasting
JW Broadcasting
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
Videos
Videos
Key Articles
Is JWsurvey.org an apostate website?
What is the new light on the faithful slave?
Has Watchtower ever lied or withheld informatiion?
Open Offer
Open Offer to all bethelites
Do you work at Brooklyn, Patterson or Wallkill? If so, please click here.
Our Promise
Making corrections
Is there something incorrect or unfactual on this website? If so, please let us know and we will correct it.
2015 results at a glance
Number of respondents to the 2015 Global Survey
Site Stats
Visitor stats for JWsurvey
Like us on Facebook!
Cedars’ Twitter Feed
Who's Online
◾0 Members.
◾35 Guests.
Reader Comments
◾JB Reezner on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
Menu
◾About JW Survey
◾Contact Us
◾Experiences
◾Get Involved
◾Global Surveys ◾2011 Global Survey
◾2012 Global Survey
◾2013 Global Survey
◾2014 Global Survey
◾2015 Global Survey
◾JW Broadcasting
◾JWawake.com
◾Links
◾Videos
◾Welcome
Login
◾Login
Scan JWsurvey.org
Copyright © 2011-2013 JWsurvey.org. Site design and support by The Small Web Master.
StatCounter - Free Web Tracker and Counter
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/david-splane-explains-the-overlapping-generation-teaching-without-actually-explaining-it/comment-page-2#comments
Skip to content
JWsurvey
Welcome
Cedars’ Blog
About JW Survey
Global Surveys
»
Videos
JW Broadcasting
Get Involved
Links
Contact Us
← Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
Posted on September 10, 2015
David Splane grapples with the "overlapping generation" teaching in a new video
David Splane grapples with the “overlapping generation” teaching in a new video
The September JW Broadcasting episode is now available on tv.jw.org, and for any avid follower of goings-on at Watchtower this month’s offering from the ‘faithful and discreet slave’ is a must-watch.
Governing Body member David Splane addresses his audience on one of the many subjects best swept under the rug by Watchtower – the incomprehensible “overlapping generation” teaching.
Simply put, this teaching (which first appeared in the April 15, 2010 Watchtower) is a hastily-contrived get-out-of-jail-free card for the failed 1914 “this generation” teaching.
For decades Watchtower publications insisted that Armageddon was imminent because, they argued, the generation of anointed Witnesses (who believed they were going to heaven) who witnessed and understood the events of 1914 would not die out before Armageddon arrived.
This claim was based on Matthew 24:34, where Jesus told his followers that the generation that witnessed various apocalyptic signs would not die out until all his words, including the “great tribulation” (the prelude to Armageddon), came true.
So certain was Watchtower of this claim that it even had it included in its masthead for the Awake! magazine…
awake-page-4-generation-masthead-oct-1995-tn
That is, until they quietly changed the masthead to read as follows…
awake-page-4-masthead-nov-1995-tn
Increasingly it became obvious that Watchtower’s self-imposed time limit on Armageddon had expired, because too much time had passed since 1914 for there to be any survivors among Jehovah’s Witnesses old enough to have memories of the outbreak of World War I. In fact, at the time of writing in September 2015, only 50 individuals older than 110 years old are known to still be alive.
“New light” was called for, and in 1995 and 2008 the organization made various stabs at squaring the circle. Paul Grundy has done a great job of documenting these fluctuating “understandings” on his JWfacts resource.
The most recent solution, as proposed by Watchtower in 2010 (and regurgitated by Splane in the above clip), is to essentially embellish Jesus’ words by suggesting that “this generation” doesn’t have to be just one generation, but can be two.
The first “group” of “this generation” would witness and understand the events of 1914, and the second group would be those who were born before the last individuals in the first group died (hence an “overlapping” generation).
If you don’t understand this, it is not due to any failure on your part. It is because it doesn’t make sense. The teaching rides roughshod over the English language, redefining what “generation” means, and relying on the audience to willfully bypass their logical thinking skills by asserting the incomprehensible as indisputable truth.
After all, if you can arbitrarily insist that a generation can be composed of two groups, why not have three, four, five – on into infinity? The word “generation” quickly loses all meaning.
The wisest course of action for Watchtower would have been to either distance itself from the “overlapping generation” teaching as a well-meaning slip-up (perhaps by arguing “this generation” was figurative rather than literal), or ignore the matter altogether.
Instead, the Governing Body apparently concluded that a 12-minute video presentation rehashing the teaching, complete with diagram and stick pointer, was just what the doctor ordered.
Their mistake is an inevitable byproduct of their delusion and bullish devotion to their own contrived dogma. It is, to my mind, further proof that the Governing Body are not cynical con-men but really do believe their own nonsense – and expect us to believe it too. Otherwise, they would have steered clear of the subject entirely, and spoken about something more compelling and universally appealing.
In addition to this obvious faux pas, I am also delighted at David Splane’s performance, which wreaked of cheesiness and insincerity…
As a side note – Splane is among three Governing Body members (together with Herd and Losch) who have apparently opted to deliver their JW Broadcasting episodes alongside “helpers” from the various Governing Body committees. The other Governing Body members (Lett, Morris, Sanderson and Jackson) tend to appear by themselves. I can’t help but question Splane’s decision to appear with a co-host, since he is in my view one of the more competent, persuasive speakers on the Governing Body. His uneasy interactions with his co-host only serve to undo the forcefulness of his individual presentation.
A costly mistake
When JW Broadcasting was first announced 11 months ago I said at the time it was great news. The worst thing the Governing Body could possibly do was reveal themselves to their doting followers. It is far easier to respect and admire your leaders when you can’t see or hear them. Having them thrusted at your TV screen or computer monitor in all their bumbling, arrogant, senile, jewelry-flashing glory changes the whole dynamic.
Yes, we have seen some extremely potent pieces of indoctrination designed to pull on the heart strings and appeal to people’s emotions. The standard episode will feature at least one visually appealing interview segment with powerful imagery and stirring music, in which a loyal Witness tears up as he or she relates how Jehovah’s hand has come to their rescue against all odds.
I will continue to do my best to expose these clearly coercive methods in my JW Broadcasting rebuttal videos. But I am growing increasingly confident that to any sincere, intellectually honest Witness capable of rudimentary reasoning skills, no rebuttals are needed. The delusion, absurdity and self-indulgence speaks for itself.
new-cedars-signature3
To see a list of video rebuttals to JW Broadcasting episodes, click here.
To read the JWfacts page on changes to the generation teaching, click here.
Share this:
in
Share
.
.
Like this:
Bookmark the permalink.
← Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
264 Responses to David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
← Older Comments
Ted says:
September 12, 2015 at 4:04 pm
Garrett, In anticipation of any possible survey, here’s
one or two off the cuff thoughts. How about the org
fragmenting into several schisms.
Different countries rejecting central control, because of the
Bizarre and embarrassing stuff that’s coming from there.
Look at the recent humiliation heaped upon the Australian
Branch, their policies were indefensible and the elders
made to look like bumbling fools. How much of that will
will people stand for.
I see the org, ditching date fixing and pushing, wars and
rumours of wars, earthquakes , critical times etc, of which
there’s a constant supply of material to draw on.
And as Robert Perez suggested, the mantra will then be.
Preach and wait on JHVH.
The bottom has fallen out of the literature business hence
the squeeze on the bros, to empty their bank accounts and
hand the cash over to them, even the appeal for the kids
ice cream money. The internet is killing recruitment so
revenue will be greatly reduced, leading to a downward
spiral,
They could continue for years but but not on the present
international scale. A realistic option is bankruptcy, from
which the top brass could still come away well heeled.
I’ll pipe down now. I’ve probably broken posting requirements.
So I extend my apologies to Cedars, and every one else.
Reply
Michele says:
September 12, 2015 at 4:12 pm
Speaking of the “Faithful and DECEITFUL slave”…I just read this and found it very interesting. Is it a way to send this to every Jehovah’s Witness?
http://avoidjw.org/2014/12/legally-establishing-watchtower-assets/
Reply
Jake says:
September 13, 2015 at 1:39 pm
Michele, Hi, very interesting article you’ve posted there. Maybe the dropping of the loan repayments to the Society has to do with the legal rights of the borrower i.e. the publishers have a legal stake. Can anyone clarify? Cheers and thanks for the link, very useful.
Reply
Meredith J says:
September 13, 2015 at 5:20 pm
We once gave a large sum of money which was all the money we had when we were very poor for the building of our kingdom hall. We were very new and thought it was the right thing to do at the time. Many of our congregation also gave so much time and money towards this project. I thought it was really strange that we had a special event to dedicate OUR hall to Jehovah or in other words the Watchtower Society.
We had organised a loan from them and we went through great pains to pay it off. Finally, an old brother decided to pay the loan out. Makes you wonder where they got the money from in the first place to loan it to us. Probably from all the donations which were being amassed annually which were to further the kingdom work. Like this wasn’t furthering the kingdom work? Then why didn’t they just give us the money? If they had it to loan to us then why didn’t they just give it to us instead and save us all the trouble. After all, the Catholic Church pays for churches. The local people don’t. It was just another scam.
Reply
Faded says:
September 13, 2015 at 6:42 pm
Yikes! Such a confusing talk. And this Menlo Park Congregation thing that I read in a link speaking of the hierarchy. It’s so crazy!
Reply
Jake says:
September 14, 2015 at 12:23 am
Yikes, so after putting poor people into debt they then make it a donation to the society. That’s like rent an apartment, rebuilding and refurbishing it, paying all the bills and then getting kicked out!, shameful.
Reply
Gameisover says:
September 14, 2015 at 6:49 am
E
Reply
Bad Penny says:
September 12, 2015 at 4:47 pm
This David Splane talk was another example of the totally ridiculous and confusing explanations of scripture that the G.B. keep splurting out to their indoctrinated masses.
The words of the wise man at Proverbs 15:16 seem appropriate, ‘Better is a little in the fear of the Lord than an abundant supply and confusion along with it.’
Reply
1914 ha ha ha says:
September 12, 2015 at 5:13 pm
Michele, just read what you posted, wow!, but even when i showed the old man the proof about the UN membership, all i got back was ”where else would i go”. koolaid anyone.
Reply
Garrett says:
September 12, 2015 at 5:48 pm
1914 ha ha ha,
When people ask “where would I go? ”
I respond “back to bed, it’s wonderful!”
I can’t tell you how much I enjoy sleeping in on the weekends now.
Additionally I use the illustration when people don’t know where to go is to ask- “if you found out you were drinking poison would you keep drinking from it just because you don’t know what else to drink?
Step one: stop drinking. Step 2 look for a clean water source. These days I choose to drink from Logic, Love and Free Will. I follow principles and facts, not men.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 12, 2015 at 11:04 pm
@Garrett . GOOD ANSWER! Stop drinking the Poison !! I LIKE the ILLUSTRATION!! I shall give you GOOD on your theocratic Slip!! No need to give you ‘W’ or ‘I’ . You are Qualified to go on to your next point to work on !!!
Reply
Markw1509 says:
September 13, 2015 at 4:49 am
@Garrett. Excellent response, and it shows how brainwashed they are. They are saying “I can’t think for myself, so I will stay with what I’ve got”. Ludicrous!
Reply
anonymous says:
September 13, 2015 at 5:22 am
@Garret, I love your illustration and I will remember that the next time anybody tries to tell me that again.
Reply
Scrubmaster says:
September 13, 2015 at 8:43 am
Garrett – great point. I know it is a point used in one of the public talks. Nice way to turn it around.
Reply
Excelsior! says:
September 13, 2015 at 5:15 am
1914 ha ha ha,
This is a classic WTBTS misquote! The WTBTS paraphrase John 6:67,68 and replace Jesus with “Jehovah God’s spirit directed Organisation”.
A textbook example of cult manipulation!
The context of this verse shows that Jesus was pretty poor at explaining things to his early disciples, using a poor illustration that deeply offended and shocked many of his erstwhile followers. Many decided to leave at this point.
Jesus asks the 12 if they will leave him too. Peter answers by asking Jesus a question WHOM shall we go away to, Lord? YOU have sayings of everlasting life,”
The WTBTS have been able to substitute themselves with Jesus himself.
If any of you are still Christian, then leaving the WTBTS is NOT leaving Jesus Christ. Not by any means.
There are many examples of the WTBTS butchering the bible in this manner.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 12, 2015 at 6:00 pm
Stepping back from the tunnel vision I have on the Org from my own long, embarrassing history of total acceptance of its preposterous belief system, I look out at nearly an entire world of people who are also guilty of their own disconnects from reality in one way or the other. Clearly, the reality we choose (or that is chosen for us) usually has more to do with things like our upbringing, mental state, gullibility, and education level than it does a hard look at facts and a determination to find proper evidence for what we are to believe. With that being the case, I suspect that the Org will continue to survive for a very long time. What I now happily believe is a realistic hope, though, is that it will continue to decrease in growth and will eventually begin to shrink in size. As WE know, the internet will NOT be the a BOON to the Org. It will be the bane of its existense. But, as long as there are a few people in the Org still willing to shovel out clumps of the usual crap, there will be a few people out there willing to let it stick when they’re hit with it.
A dear JW friend of mine who has no idea that I have been in total disagreement with him for the last several years recently told me about the convention he just attended. He said there were “OVER SIX THOUSAND” in attendance. And there were “TWENTY SIX BAPTIZED!”. He was genuinely trying to encourage me. He has no idea how encouraging those numbers truly were to me.
Of course, this comment is in reply to Garrett’s excellent suggestion of a survey regarding the fate of the Org. Let me also add the same apologies found at the end of Ted’s comment, along with all of the plagues of Revelation if my comment was too far off the beaten path or inappropriate in any way. I’m NEW here! (I’m gonna ride that excuse for as long as possible, lol…)
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 12, 2015 at 10:59 pm
@JB Reezner . You may be new here.BUT you show GREAT INSIGHT in your comments & much WISDOM as to why normally intelligent people fall for the GB Rubbish… EMOTIONALLY VULNERABLE is usually one of the main reasons.
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 13, 2015 at 8:38 am
Thank you very much for your kind words, Pickled brain! And I can certainly attest to emotional vulnerability frequently being a major factor in falling for hooey. My dear departed mother accepted the JW message as a teenager during a time of great vulnerability. She later passed it on to me. I don’t blame her at all. I understand. It’s just a very sad situation. As we all know, it’s very difficult for a child to know something is untrue when a parent (or parents) is saying it’s true.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 13, 2015 at 9:33 am
@JB Reezner. You are a KIND & EMPATHETIC person UNLIKE the 7 CHARLATANS in BROOKLYN who SEPARATE JWs from their families if they DARE to DISAGREE with ANY DOCTRINE which A CHILD Might have Got BAPTISED at 11,12,14 etc. who didn’t fully comprehend the consequences!!
Reply
Kaput says:
September 13, 2015 at 2:16 am
Excellent comments JB – I am a realist as well – this corporation will still be around in future – just less members who can remember the history and more faders and judicial commitee victims who suffer the lack of love and mind control.
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 13, 2015 at 10:35 am
Thank you, Kaput. Yes, sad but true.
Reply
1914 ha ha ha says:
September 12, 2015 at 6:10 pm
Bro franz wil be shown on the graph as fwf, what it should be is wtf.Sorry couldnt let that one slip past.lol:)
Reply
enuffsenuff says:
September 13, 2015 at 4:55 am
The Menlo Park case revisted. The WT has developed religious “new light” dogma to deal with a legal problem created by the Menlo Park case. The dogma has nothing to do with what Jesus described in Math 24 regarding the FDS. This is the first article that I have seen, that actually deals with a cynical and dishonest manipulation of scripture. The blatant concern for WT wealth and assets is stunning. The fact that they use scripture to connive a result is shocking. If they wanted to get control of assets at least do it in the sphere where it belongs- business and pay the tax.
Reply
enuffsenuff says:
September 13, 2015 at 5:02 am
This piece is taken from The Menlo Park case;
And I say “organization.” I am general counsel for the National Organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses out of Brooklyn, New York. Ordinarily, I wouldn’t be here, but this is one of our 13,000 congregations in the United States. We are a hierarchal religion structured just like the Catholic Church. And when the order from the Pope comes down in the church defrocking a priest and kicking him out, he no longer has any say in any matter in the local parish priest — in the parish.
Sorry about doing this in bits but I was blocked by a program on the watch for spxxmmers. So I am being careful not to upset the silly thing.
Reply
enuffsenuff says:
September 13, 2015 at 5:14 am
Still on Menlo Park Case, What this part explains is why the GB equals the FDS in a legal manoeuvre to keep assets in its hands and away from the ones that paid for their own KHalls This “composite slave” is a made up term created simply for legal reasons. Redefining the “Faithful & Discreet Slave” as solely the Governing Body and not all Anointed individuals closes a legal loophole that was noticed as part of the court cases with the 3 former elders from the Menlo Park Congregation in California.
Previously, all who saw themselves as “Anointed” had a share in the Watchtower’s Assets as they were legal representatives of “God’s Kingdom on Earth”. But changing the definition of the Faithful & Discreet Slave to just the Governing Body means that all Watchtower’s Assets are now safely in the hands of the small number of individuals who rule the organization from the top down, in a hierarchical fashion, “just like the Catholic Church”.
So, what they have done is explained a legal loophole in religious doctrine terms in the form of “new light” to stop the R and F from complaining. This is a dishonest manipulation of scripture, but it finally puts flesh on the bones of why the GB and the FDS are now one and the same.
All of this from the link http://avoidjw.org/2014/12/legally-establishing-watchtower-assets/2/
Reply
Bad Penny says:
September 13, 2015 at 5:26 am
JB Reezner –
Love your comments.
We all stayed with the org because we thought it was the ‘truth’.
Thankfully, through the information highway, we can now find out real truth based on facts and hard evidence, not on Watchtower make believe!
Good to have you with us!
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 13, 2015 at 8:43 am
Thank you, Bad Penny! Very good to be here!
Reply
Alex says:
September 13, 2015 at 6:17 am
It gets worse. There is no logic to this teaching and how anyone can be taken in by this explanation goes beyond me. Its all theory and wishful thinking to prop up the failing 1914 teaching. By the way the governing body will only love you if you obey and believe every word they say and empty yourself of intellect and emotion. Also they like to receive your money to live in luxury at their new Warwick HQ.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 13, 2015 at 3:18 pm
@Alex . You have SUMMED UP THIS UTTER LUNATIC REASONING of the GB Perfectly!!!
Reply
Ted says:
September 13, 2015 at 9:04 am
Hi Garrett, Those weekend sleep in’s. Sheer heavenly bliss !
nirvana ! No longer having to go out Sunday morning disturbing
everyone else’s well earned rest. Oh the abuse I’ve had from
people, rushing downstairs thinking it was something urgent.
Even on the 25th of Dec, One guy said to me, “Can’t you even
leave us alone today, ( He didn’t swear though, not on Christmas
day. )
The demands made on JWs are unreasonable. Can you vac,
pioneer during the one holiday of the year you get from work,
and guilted into doing so with such comments as, “Time is so
short, any available time not spent preaching, is time stolen from
JHVH”. And all for what’s proved to be a Mirage, a fantasy.
Great comments Garrett, and everyone,
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 13, 2015 at 10:43 am
Here’s a little ditty for you guys. I’ll dedicate it to Pickled brain. Your hilarious comment earlier in this thread about tying The Who’s song My Generation in with all of the GB’s generation nonsense inspired me! This has probably already been done before, but, what the heck… Sung to the tune of the GREAT Who song, “Baba O’Riley” (Much better if you listen to the actual song as you read it! youtu.be/gY5rztWa1TM)…
Blah Blah Un’Likely (Witness Wasteland)
Out here in the field
I preach, full of zeal
And with my “facts”, no proof is given
I know that “new light”
Ain’t always right
But I’m undaunted, when it isn’t
Don’t cry, the end is nigh
For all the Witness wasteland
Raymond* take my hand
And help me understand
Expose the liars who filled this bag on my shoulder
The exodus is here!
The web has made it clear!
Let’s get to leavin’, before we get much older
Witness wasteland
It’s such a Witness wasteland
Witness wasteland, oh yeah
Witness wasteland
My time was WASTED!
*Alternatively, “Cedars”, “Grundy”, etc. :)
Reply
Garrett says:
September 13, 2015 at 11:11 am
Excellent Reez!
I sung it in my head to your words.
My favorite bands are Zeppelin and Sabbath.
I’ll eagerly wait for your next musical release based on those bands.
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 13, 2015 at 12:58 pm
Thanks Garrett, and challenge accepted! Zep happens to be my favorite band too.
Ramble On (youtu.be/uF_XI5pCxlo)
Be-leeefs are fallin’, all around
It’s time I was on my way
Thanks to you, my stunted mind
Is dizzy every day
But now it’s time for me to go
The internet lights my way
So take this guilt and pain, ‘n your millennial reign,
And shove it up your “A”!
Because I’ve grown so tired
But I know I’ve got one thing I got to do…
Ramble on!
Your full of crap, and it’s a trap
I stayed too long!
All around the world, your phony pearls
Have been a plague!
I’m finally brave enough to say
I’ll ramble on!
Could it be? I’m finally free!
Got no more time for spreadin’ “truth”
My time turned-in is all gone
And though I rang those bells a thousand times
Now, I’M the not-at-home
Ramble on!
Now’s the time, the time is now
I stayed too long!
I really cried -Hell, I nearly DIED
I can’t stay!
There ain’t no way skinny pants are (that) gay
I gotta ramble on!
This Witness thing ain’t what it seems
I ain’t tellin’ no more lies
Mine’s a tale that must be told
My FREEDOM I hold dear
How years ago, in days of old
When MAGIC filled the air
T’was in the early days of mankind,
…ehh, I better leave it there…
No skinny jeans wearers were harmed in the making of this song.
Reply
Garrett says:
September 13, 2015 at 9:48 pm
Brilliant! You have a gift.
Why don’t you put those to the original songs and do a You Tube video and further the cause?!
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 13, 2015 at 10:07 pm
Thanks! I’ve noodled around on the guitar and keyboard for many years, but as for my singing, let’s not talk about it… But if anybody working for the ex-JW cause ever does want to use or improve upon anything I do here, they certainly have my blessing.
Pickled brain says:
September 13, 2015 at 3:13 pm
@JB Reezner. YOU DEFINITELY HAVE STYLE!!
Before I came into the ‘TRUTH????’ At 23 my Favourite Band was The Who & can anyone out there believe this BUT I THREW ALL MY… WORLDLY….???? RECORDS Away when the Advice from The Most Holy ??was ‘If Jesus was in the room, Would you play & Listen to those Records!! As ROGER DALTREY Sang as the Lead Singer my Favourite Song …. ‘WON’T GET FOOLED AGAIN ‘!!!!! Absolutely Brilliant Song! I think Every Ex-JW should play it to themselves!!!
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 13, 2015 at 3:40 pm
TRAGIC!! But I can relate. I made similar sacrifices. Zeppelin, Van Halen, Prince (yes, PRINCE), ended up being silenced for many years in my life. But they’ve all come back with a VENGEANCE!
Won’t Get Fooled Again crossed my mind before I made my little ditty. But, as you suggest, the words are already PERFECT and very relevant to ex-JW’s! One of the greatest songs EVER, as many Who songs are.
Reply
Markw1509 says:
September 13, 2015 at 11:45 am
Let’s just assume that they are right about the overlapping generation. (Can’t believe I just wrote that, but bear with me!).
We are supposed to believe that Jesus said ‘this generation won’t pass away’ but that he meant this could be around 130 years or more. Why would Jesus say keep on the watch if it really wasn’t that urgent? Why give a warning at all if the time period was going to be that long? In the literal fulfilment, the gap was 37 years. How could the secondary fulfilment be 3 to 4 times as long? Why the urgency, if that’s how Jesus really meant it?
Sorry, GB, I simply can’t see the second fulfilment panning out like that. Maybe any JWs visiting this site can ex-splane.
Reply
Robertperez67 says:
September 13, 2015 at 1:52 pm
Very active JW here, and nope there is no justification for this circle jerk. At today’s meeting the Watchtower actually went on and on about the curses that await today’s false prophets that live at the expense of the suckers that believed in them. I just stared the conductor in the eye with the biggest grin constantly nodding my head. It took everything I had to keep from exploding in laughter. And the comments, oh the simple, simple comments of every simpleton in the room trying to outdo each other in “their” enlightenment, having understood this new light. The article repeated over and over ” although we aren’t positive” and any number of attendees would shoot their hands up to say “yes, yes I see it now and it was right there all along.” These people are hopelessly brainwashed, the broadcast says one thing and the magazine says another and no one catches on. This particular article just casually changed the meaning of a bunch of JW doctrine and everyone is so used to the wheel of fortune prophecies in JW literature that no one bats an eye, they are trully numb to the greater meaning of all this.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 13, 2015 at 3:27 pm
@Robertperez67. I was sitting in the Watchtower Study today THINKING the SAME THING AS YOU !! HOW IN THE HELL CAN HUMAN BEINGS BE SO GULLIBLE??? How can anyone FALL FOR THIS EVER CHANGING NEW LIGHT AGAIN!!!!!
I also have a silly Grin on my face thinking how many in this room are thinking the same as me??
Reply
ruthlee says:
September 14, 2015 at 12:59 am
hi rob perez me too at the tower yesterday paragraph 4 mentioned the 10 horn giving support to the united nations i HAD to comment that WE should never in no way ever give or be known for giving our support to the united nations there was a silence in the kh it resonated with a few and afterward a bro came up to me and thumbs up we are not daft just biding time ruthlee
Reply
anonymous says:
September 14, 2015 at 3:06 am
I am looking at yesterday’s Watchtower “Your Deliverance is Getting Near” and paragraph 10 tells about Gog of Magog from Ezek. 38:10-12 and says Gog of Magog is a coalition of nations and how they are “eager to attack Jehovah’s anointed ones as well as their associates” but if you read what the Watchtower quotes from Ezekiel, it does describe the Watchtower corporation when it says of Gog of Magog “It will be to take much spoil and plunder, to attack the devastated places that are now inhabited and a people regathered from the nations, who ARE ACCUMULATING WEALTH AND PROPERTY, THOSE LIVING IN THE CENTER OF THE EARTH.”
I don’t think ordinary Witnesses are the ones accumulating wealth and property but those who it seems to describe to me is the Watchtower Corporation, not the rank and file.
Also paragraph 16 also talks about Gog of Magog but it just says Gog (the Bible says Gog of Magog though) and they again reference Ezekiel but the Watchtower in that paragraph says “shortly before the remaining ones of the 144,000 are taken to heaven, Gog will attack God’s people.”
What the Watchtower didn’t do was to take the reader to Revelation chapter 20:8 where the Bible actually tells about when Gog of Magog will attack God’s people and that is because verse 7 says it’s as soon as the thousand years have ended.
Leaving out Revelation chapter 20:8 was on purpose and that was so that people wouldn’t look it up and see that it is not “shortly before the remaining ones of the 144,000 are taken to heaven” but it’s after the thousand years had ended.
That was deceitful and telling. It tells me that the Society are all really stupid or evil.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 14, 2015 at 2:57 pm
@Anonymous. JUST PLAIN EVIL!! Let’s be Generous & Call a Spade a Spade… You are Right about Gog & Rev.20 v8
Catalina says:
September 13, 2015 at 1:59 pm
Today I went to the Sunday morning meeting to make my sister happy. The watchtower study was from the July 15, 2015 magazine. Inside the magazine under – Life Story, Remembering My First Love Has Helped Me to Endure, As told by Anthony Morris he said he served in the Vietnam war and some men he knew were killed and he said Jehovah will bring those young men back to life and they will have a chance to learn the truth about him. Has Jw teaching changed while I was out 21 years ? Does anyone know ? My sister said she is confused. I thought worldly people will be destroyed. Is there a change in their teaching ?
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 13, 2015 at 2:48 pm
The belief is still that the vast majority of non-Witnesses will have their guts stomped out, tomorrow, during Armageddon. As for people who have died, the belief is that the vast majority of them will be resurrected due to being ‘acquitted from their sin’ (because they died) -Rom 6:7. After the resurrection, THEY get a do-over. But the poor non-JW men, women, children, little Baptist grandmas and peace-loving Buddhists alive when Armageddon comes are simply out of luck. Bird food.
Reply
pearlsB4swine says:
September 13, 2015 at 3:37 pm
Frustratingly, I have never come across a single JW in my area willing or able to talk about the whole generation thingy. Just an innocent question like “how would you explain the overlapping generation if asked?” makes them visibly uncomfortable and they change the subject. And why wouldn’t it, it’s total bollocks and they know it.
Why would Jesus deliver a message/prophecy so cryptic, so convoluted and ridiculous when the eternal life of the hearer depends upon their understanding and acceptance of it?
Give it up WT, admit it already, the “generation” teaching is dead in the water.
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 13, 2015 at 8:43 pm
You’re logic is rock solid, pearlsB4swine. I wish that was enough. When I asked a friend who is an active Witness that very question about what he says to people regarding the overlapping generation teaching, he said ‘Nooo no no, I don’t go near that thing.’ He understands how convoluted it is, and sometimes we have what I think are productive discussions. But sadly, he then goes to a meeting at the Hall and his brain completely RESETS back into harmony with the Org’s indoctrination. I’ve seen it happen several times now. When you’re finally on the outside looking back in at that phenomenon, it is truly a bizarre thing. Incredibly disturbing and sad.
Reply
Ted says:
September 13, 2015 at 3:51 pm
Catalina, I don’t think there’s been a change as to who gets
resurrections and who doesn’t. They’ve always claimed
that only “Dead” worldly people will be made alive, sometime
after Armageddon. But it’s the “Live” worldly ones who will
be snuffed when the fireworks start.
On that basis, if you’re in any doubt as to which category
you’re in, Getting knocked down by a bus is your best
option. It’s so reassuring when there’s someone who can
tell you exactly what God is thinking. Makes life much
simpler,– I think !
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 13, 2015 at 4:12 pm
Jehovah, if you’re really up there, let Roger Federer win this one…
Since 1914, he’s won 5 US Opens. Don’t let him lose simply because he’s been overlapped by the Novak Djokovic generation. (There, I made it relevant to this thread, lol.)
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 13, 2015 at 6:15 pm
Scratch this off-topic sports comment. I want to be lighthearted here, but not to the point of being flippant. Besides, Roger might actually win and cause me to have to re-evaluate some things…
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 13, 2015 at 10:25 pm
@JB Breezner. Federer Lost!!! I don’t think you have been Donating Enough Money,Time,& Energy to our MOST HOLY & MOST Wonderful Governing Body!!!!! Jehovah obviously hasn’t answered your Prayer!!
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 13, 2015 at 11:18 pm
You crack me up, PB! I know!! I watched the whole tragic match. Truthfully, the surest way to get somebody to lose is to have ME root for them! I have about a 1% success rate in choosing winners. Maybe I should go back to rooting for the Org. That way, they would surely collapse! Good night, my friend :)
Reply
Ted says:
September 13, 2015 at 4:44 pm
Just to be clear, the categories I’m referring to,
are worldly or otherwise.
Reply
Ted says:
September 13, 2015 at 5:07 pm
ruthlee I’m honoured to be regarded as your brother.
I wish you well in all you do.
Reply
ruthlee says:
September 14, 2015 at 1:03 am
thanks ted we are all in this together ruth lee
Reply
Catalina says:
September 13, 2015 at 6:33 pm
Soooo…. that means people who died during the 9/11 attacks will be resurrected but if their families wont make it if they are still worldly people when harmagedon strikes. I think someone in charge wants everyone to live and made this rule up. Thank you, you guys for answering my question.
Reply
Catalina says:
September 13, 2015 at 6:34 pm
Soooo…. that means people who died during the 9/11 attacks will be resurrected but their families wont make it if they’re worldly when harmagedon strikes. I think someone in charge wants everyone to live and made this rule up. Thank you, you guys for answering my question
Reply
LOL says:
September 13, 2015 at 9:02 pm
“The delusion, absurdity and self-indulgence speaks for itself.” As does yours Mr. Cedars. As does yours.
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 13, 2015 at 9:43 pm
“As does yours”? You mean you agree with Cedars’ observations about the Org, but you also think that he shares those same debilitating qualities? That’s a fairly schizophrenic position to take…
Reply
LOL says:
September 14, 2015 at 9:45 am
Are you his guardian?
Reply
anonymous says:
September 14, 2015 at 11:41 am
LOL, what is the matter with you???? If you have a problem with Cedars, then why not identify yourself and what is your problem with Cedars? If you don’t like this web site, then go some place else.
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 14, 2015 at 1:25 pm
@LOL: No, I’m not anyone’s guardian (except for my little doggy). It just appeared to me that you may have structured your zinger improperly. That, added to the tinge of unwarranted self-satisfaction, struck me personally as mildly offensive and worthy of a mildly defensive reply. It was mostly an issue of your phrasing.
As for defending Cedars, I would never presume that he would need me or anyone else for that. Besides, if you’re in disagreement with him, or with what you find on this site that has educated and comforted so many, that would be more of an issue of your insanity. I have yet to find an effective verbal defense against that.
But, if I misunderstood your intent, please accept my apology and have a nice day :)
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 13, 2015 at 9:57 pm
@LOL . We all have Faults my CRITICAL FRIEND !! There is a BIG BIG Difference between The 7 EVIL MEN of BROOKLYN & Cedars …. The 7 EVIL GB are MANIPULATING & ROBBING 8 MILLION INNOCENT People of their TIME, ENERGY, MONEY,REAL ESTATE,WILLS,STOCKS&SHARES.PENSIONS & CHILDREN of their ICE CREAM MONEY!!!
& WHAT FOR? To FINANCE A PROPERTY & PUBLISHING EMPIRE!!!
Reply
Wip it says:
September 13, 2015 at 9:26 pm
Thats a point i see all the time, someone who has died in the past comes back & all their non JW wicked family are killed of, & they go where are my kids, etc, that is not a god of love thing, we had an elder use the term “big BBQ” at the end, totaly deranged, here’s another question that i have asked a few, the bible talks about domestic animals in the NS, the question is will our pets die, the answer i get is yes, god has only given the hope of everlasting life to humans, but i say revelation says thet death will be no more, so we will have to cope with animals dyeing another flaw. Ever have a child that has lost a beloved pet, no love their.
Reply
ruthlee says:
September 14, 2015 at 1:13 am
hi folks just to wind hubby up i asked him to lead the fs with a quiz,. can anyone explain the generations in three scriptures .ha ha said he would have trouble explaining it .just a thought about the menlo cong those dear bros were appointed to look after sheep how devastating to be turned upon and ripped open in a court of law over money. greed has eaten up this rotten lot we call the slave ,yes i reckon the lunatics have taken over the asylum just think im part of a dual generation i can say whatever age i am and i knew elvis ha ha (no i didnt) lets all think of a loony topic and send it to crooklyn and see if the god channel is open. so much for a highway of holiness more the grand ol information superhighway , a new babel bringing knowledge together wether for good or bad its on record for all to see end of rant ruthlee
Reply
anonymous says:
September 14, 2015 at 3:25 am
My husband would never think to put on jwbroadcasting so I put it on for him to watch so after he watched it, I asked him if he could explain the overlapping generation to me and his comment was “I have to watch it again” so I put it on for him again yesterday. I haven’t asked him again but just the fact that he said he had to watch it again, says a lot.
Reply
Nick says:
September 14, 2015 at 3:25 am
I think this time they have really proven how wacky they are. When I imagine the GB meeting and discussing directives it must be something out of Alice in Wonderland -THE MAD HATTERS LUNCH.
Reply
Ted says:
September 14, 2015 at 4:10 am
The bouncing of the Menlo Park elders for daring to challenge
Hierarchical authority. Exposes the “Designed to flatter teaching”
of being appointed by Holy Spirit as a load of eyewash.
“When the order comes down from the Pope defrocking a priest
and kicking him out. He no longer has a say in the matter. —
( Calvin Rous, WT, attorney )
“One is your master, all of you are brothers”. Matt,23:8.
Reply
A Patient Man says:
September 14, 2015 at 5:47 am
Since the beginning of my life as a youngster I prided myself on reading and trying very hard to understand what I read from the bible and the mountain of material that was provided for us. Then in turn be able to explain it to someone with a good heart, (we believe that we know if someone has a good heart), the reality is that we don’t really know about their heart condition, that most important determination belongs to God, and their life lies in his very capable hands. So after a very long time being a witness I have finally figured out that if something was written under inspiration, or however they want to tell you they received the understanding, (for example, the generation topic), then for 50 or 60 years or even longer it should be able to stand the test of time and not be changed. The number of beliefs that have been changed, some of which have been around for close to 100 years, is staggering. The truth is I no longer try to keep up, the reality is my brain is turning to mush. I hear the friends, and even my family members try vainly to explain what they think the understanding is on these ever changing topics. I am much happier not worrying what is new and what is old, and if I am ask by anyone to explain these changes I simply say, I cannot. The ones that I say this to get a funny look on their face and move on to the next unsuspecting victim looking for the answer that will make them happy. At a dinner with family, some of these changes came up in the discussion and I sat quietly by and listened, it is amazing when you sit and listen carefully what you will hear. And another reason I don,t say anything is that I not longer feel like being chastised by my family for not being spiritual enough, or heaven forbid not keeping up with the “light”. To tell all of you the truth I feel like Lilly Von Schtupp ,(spelling?), in the movie Blazing Saddles when she said, “I’m Tired’. I am glad those of you that write, that your brain is still functioning on all cylinders, keep up the good fight!
Reply
anonymous says:
September 14, 2015 at 6:21 am
@A Patient Man, I was exactly the same as you. I couldn’t keep up anymore and so my brain had turned to mush. Once I started to see all the lies and over-ups of the Society and I started to use my brain again, I realized that I actually did have a functioning brain after all. When I look around at all those that are in the Organization and think it’s the “truth”, I feel sorry for them.
I was listening to a couple of videos from a youtuber called Christian Comedy Channel and he has several videos where he is discussing with Witnesses, the book “What Does the Bible Really Teach” and he discusses 1914, failed prophecies, the overlapping generation and flip flopping doctrines and what the Witnesses would tell him is something to the effect “that is what we used to think but now we believe this”. So, what those Witnesses were saying in effect is that they left their brains go dead and whatever the Society says is what they now believe and they can’t think for themselves anymore. It’s truly sad.
Reply
questionall451 says:
September 14, 2015 at 7:46 am
A patient man,
I feel very much the same. I checked out a few years ago, the last time we went through the wonderful Revelation book. I remember sitting there like a deer looking into oncoming headlights, wondering how I would explain that each of the 7 trumpet blasts correspond to a resolution passed at a CederPoint Ohio convention. Or how the army of locusts is leaving behind stinging judgement messeges in the Watchtower and Awake publications. The whole thing was an elaborate house of cards. If even one of these interpetations is wrong, the whole mess just falls apart.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 14, 2015 at 9:03 am
@questionall451. Don’t Worry I FELT the SAME as YOU after studying the RED REVELATION book for the Third Time.!! Those DAMN TRUMPET BLASTS always Got Me !! & the The DAMN Stinging Locusts! I knew NO-ONE on the Ministry would Believe or Understand the GB Explanation of that rubbish!!
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 14, 2015 at 10:40 am
I was still thoroughly snowed when we went through that book in the mid 90’s, but I do remember a slight tingly feeling as I saw that all the little infinitesimal early goings-on of the WTBTS were supposedly addressed prophetically throughout the chapters of Revelation. I didn’t doubt that I had the Truth. I just thought that maybe there were some things there that they weren’t exactly 100% right about. I was 100% dumb. But I’m being treated for that condition now.
Your user image is great. Applewhite/Lett -two world-class space cadets. When the GB starts talking about the Hale-Bopp comet, you hanger-onners better get the HELL outta there!
Reply
Outlookingin says:
September 14, 2015 at 12:47 pm
Aha! Some fellow Revelation book doubters. I recall driving home each week after the book study and telling my husband how hard I found it to agree with the material. He always asked whether it really mattered, and I had to agree that many of the things I struggled with were of little significance. Eventually I ceased answering in the book study because I felt such a hypocrite doing so. We decided at the time that we had the big things right and this seemed to keep us going. Of course, more recently we have changed our minds about having the big things right. One can hardly say of the generation teaching that it doesn’t really matter, that it is of little consequence! I just wish I had listened to my head of reason back then with the Revelation book (and others) and not continued sacrificing so much time and energy.
Reply
Ted says:
September 14, 2015 at 7:59 am
JB,Reezner, Garrett, Pickled Brain.
Sabbath, Zeppelin, and Who did you say. I’m well out of the
loop here guys, just not my generation. I can only go back to
O’l Blue Eyes, and I’m struggling with the “Overlapping.
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 14, 2015 at 10:15 am
Yes Ted, “Behind Blue Eyes” was a GREAT song by The Who! Oh, no, you mean Sinatra. He was great, indeed. I mean, he wasn’t part of my personal music collection, but I liked My Way, New York, New York, Somethin’ Stupid, That’s Life, etc. But I do see where it would be difficult for a fan of primarily his type of music to transition from that style to the music that came along shortly after.
But if history has taught us anything, it’s that we members of previous generations can join together (Join Together, by the way, another great Who song) in HATING the garbage on the radio that kids are listening to these days! (seriously)
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 14, 2015 at 2:35 pm
@Ted. ‘THE END is NEAR’ …. ‘The FINAL CURTAIN ‘
…I DID IT MY WAY’ !!!! This could be the Signature Tune of the Governing Body!! Perhaps Good Old FRANK was a Secret Member of the GB???
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 14, 2015 at 3:28 pm
PB that was BRILLIANT! A+ to you!
And maybe for us, “Start spreadin’ the news, I’m leavin’ todayyy”. Okay, maybe not. That’s a song about going TO New York instead of gettin’ the HELL outta there!
Reply
ruthlee says:
September 14, 2015 at 8:33 am
dear a patient man guess what i had was terminal brainmush bordering on failure to thrive a very serious self diagnosable condition actually a requirement if you qualify as a jw in lala land .the remedy Stop reading drivel and if you feel so inclined go back to reading the Bible only. i did my last jw spew the return to Jehovah brochure and miracle of miracles that is exactly what i have done im putting on spiritual weight just like a baby getting bonny and strong ..so there is a cure Gods word. its not rocket science and its free and you can stop the cure anytime you please .ive returned to God with the aid of these friends here of all pursuasions and no more mashed potato coming out of my ears its great. you will know when your brain starts to work again because you start getting cheeky about the loons who govern us and then you parody them and final cure, uncontrollable laughter. after all laughter is the best medicine anyone fancy half a pint of generation gap its on tap at hq. tee hee ruthlee
Reply
Average Joe says:
September 14, 2015 at 9:01 am
Hi all,
Just received this new Public Talk outline (Nº 192) and the second section has some very interesting statements, and I quote:
“We need strong confidence in the Bible to choose a path contrary to the one followed by others around us
If you are not fully convinced that the Bible is God’s Word, then examine the evidence (g 11/07 5-9)
Use the Bible to examine your current beliefs carefully
Jesus emphasized the need for our beliefs to be based on truth [Read John 4:23, 24]
Like the apostle Paul, be willing to change your beliefs when presented with evidence (Ac 26:9-20)”
I would so like to give this one. I already stress in some other talks I have that we have to PERSONALLY check to make sure a teaching rings true with what we already know from the Bible, even if we hear it from the platform but I thought that this outline could be very handy in defending yourself for disagreeing with a WTS Policy.
Here’s a copy of the actual outline (valid only for 7 days on WeTransfer so get it whilst it’s hot!):http://we.tl/1EnHB6GcQ7
All the best.
AJ
Reply
Robert67 says:
September 14, 2015 at 12:35 pm
No thanks on the outline, I’m in the middle of a bs cleanse at the moment. Just a suggestion, perhaps as a matter of showing how the jw brotherhood has embraced change bring up a few of the failed prophecies that the gb has mustered up over the years. Maybe you could start by criticizing other faiths and pointing to Moses playbook to how to inherit the promised land Deutoronomy 18:20-22, Segway into the very wise council given in Proverbs 30:5,6 and how Jesus closes all scripture in the closing words of the Bible in Revelation 22: 18-21. Make a huge deal of people who exploit scripture for profit and are proven liars and false prophets when they say God is doing something and then he doesn’t, or they twist Gods word in every manner to suit their agenda. Maybe the body could be building up people like Russel, Ruggerford, Franz etc.. and then close mentioning your closing text Acts 26:9-20 and try to decent the failed 1914 Armageddon date, how Russel got it wrong about all the annointed having been completed in 1881, how Rutherford got the millions now living will never die bit off, how perhaps he jumped the gun saying the prophets of old were to arrive in 1925 and building them a luxury mansion, which he conveniently lived and passed away in. How 1975 was really just a guesstimate and everyone makes mistakes and that we all according to Paul’s words, screw all those other Biblical exortations, are supposed to just “be ready to embrace the new, new, new thing. Just an idea for your talk, I’m sure you can find a way to word it so that it seems genuinely in defence of GB.
Reply
Robert67 says:
September 14, 2015 at 12:40 pm
Laser keyboard, facepalm at all the misspelled words.
Reply
JB Reezner says:
September 14, 2015 at 1:42 pm
“Ruggerford” is turning over in his grave for that mistake! Oops, I mean he’s turning over in Heaven. I can see him now, cruising those streets of gold in his 16-cylinder Cadillac, screaming “I’m the Generalissimooo!”
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 14, 2015 at 2:42 pm
@Robert67 . CLEVER,VERY CLEVER… I LIKE YOUR CUNNING!! There are subtle ways to show up the STUPIDITY of the GB & that’s the best way to appear to be on the GB Side but SOW SEEDS of DOUBT & Playing Theocratic Warfare in Reverse… Brilliant!!
Reply
ruthlee says:
September 14, 2015 at 2:20 pm
last post of the day i needed this today ive set up a menu and invited a few birds to feast on all the garbage that has accumulated,. here is the list, the blue footed booby, the roseate spoonbill. the lyre bird, a murder of crows ,an unkindness of ravens and of course the loon enjoy your meal its on us rl
Reply
← Older Comments
Leave a Reply
Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *
Name *
Email *
Website
Comment
You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>
applications-education-miscellaneous.png
Comment posting guidelines:
Kindly observe the following requirements before posting any comments to our articles or pages:
◾ABUSIVE COMMENTS - Do not post comments that include swear words or may be considered abusive, lewd, blasphemous, obscene or threatening
◾ILLEGAL COMMENTS - Do not post comments that condone or propose illegal activity, or that breach copyright law
◾OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS - Do not post comments that are off-topic and bear no relation to the page or article
◾RELIGIOUS NEUTRALITY - Do not post comments that are evangelical in nature or may be construed as imposing one person's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) over those of another
◾LANGUAGE - Visitors from all countries and language groups are welcome. You may post comments in languages other than English, but we would appreciate if you could make any such comments brief. We would also be grateful if you could run any such comments through Google Translate and convert these to English, but this is not an absolute requirement.
◾LINKS - You may post links to third party websites, so long as (1) you limit these to 2 links per comment, and (2) the content on these links doesn't contravene ANY of the first four points. Specifically, you may not post URLs to websites that are evangelical in nature. Our links page has an extensive list of such sites for any who are curious about Christian beliefs in the context of Jehovah's Witnesses.
JWSurvey.org thanks all visitors in advance for respectfully observing these guidelines. Any who persistently fail to do so, despite warnings, may find themselves blocked from making further comments at the discretion of the site moderators, whose decision will be final and not open for debate.
Notify me of new posts by email.
Click on
Visit JWfacts.com for more information on JW beliefs
Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses
JW Recovery forum
Barbara Anderson's Watchtower Documents resource
Visit JWstruggle.com for helpful information on exiting JW mind control Visit TAZE.co for discussion on Jehovah's Witness developments
Support JWsurvey
Help us make continued improvements to this website and its content.
Article Categories
◾Apostates (28)
◾Blood transfusions (12)
◾Books (5)
◾Cedars' Blog (211)
◾Cedars' Story (4)
◾Celebrity JWs (2)
◾Child Abuse (51)
◾Child Indoctrination (16)
◾Divine Direction (4)
◾Domestic Abuse (2)
◾Doomsday Predictions (1)
◾Downsizing (7)
◾Evolution and creation (6)
◾General Information (1)
◾Governing Body (34)
◾Higher education (3)
◾History and scandals (6)
◾JW.org (8)
◾Life Stories (10)
◾Mental health (5)
◾Mini-Surveys (5)
◾News (191)
◾Property sales (5)
◾Publications (6)
◾Shunning (13)
◾Support (6)
◾Survey (11)
◾Undue influence (16)
◾Warwick headquarters (4)
Search JWsurvey
Subscribe to JW Survey
Enter your email address to receive notices of new posts by email.
Join 836 other subscribers
Email Address
Listen to JWpodcast
Check out the latest episode of JW podcast!
Latest John Cedars video
Popular JW sites in other languages
Languages
More languages...
Select... Croatian Czech Dutch Estonian Finnish 1 Finnish 2 French 1 French 2 French 3 German 1 German 2 Hungarian Italian 1 Italian 2 Italian 3 Japanese Polish 1 Polish 2 Polish 3 Portuguese 1 Portuguese 2 Romanian Russian 1 Russian 2 Russian 3 Serbian 1 Serbian 2 Serbian 3 Slovak Spanish 1 Spanish 2
Top Posts & Pages
David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
Following the "Return to Jehovah" release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
Following the "Return to Jehovah" release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
Links
Links
JW Broadcasting
JW Broadcasting
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
Videos
Videos
Key Articles
Is JWsurvey.org an apostate website?
What is the new light on the faithful slave?
Has Watchtower ever lied or withheld informatiion?
Open Offer
Open Offer to all bethelites
Do you work at Brooklyn, Patterson or Wallkill? If so, please click here.
Our Promise
Making corrections
Is there something incorrect or unfactual on this website? If so, please let us know and we will correct it.
2015 results at a glance
Number of respondents to the 2015 Global Survey
Site Stats
Visitor stats for JWsurvey
Like us on Facebook!
Cedars’ Twitter Feed
Who's Online
◾0 Members.
◾32 Guests.
Reader Comments
◾JB Reezner on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
Menu
◾About JW Survey
◾Contact Us
◾Experiences
◾Get Involved
◾Global Surveys ◾2011 Global Survey
◾2012 Global Survey
◾2013 Global Survey
◾2014 Global Survey
◾2015 Global Survey
◾JW Broadcasting
◾JWawake.com
◾Links
◾Videos
◾Welcome
Login
◾Login
Scan JWsurvey.org
Copyright © 2011-2013 JWsurvey.org. Site design and support by The Small Web Master.
StatCounter - Free Web Tracker and Counter
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/david-splane-explains-the-overlapping-generation-teaching-without-actually-explaining-it#comments
Skip to content
JWsurvey
Welcome
Cedars’ Blog
About JW Survey
Global Surveys
»
Videos
JW Broadcasting
Get Involved
Links
Contact Us
Videos
New videos are constantly being uploaded to the John Cedars YouTube channel.
Here is a playlist featuring the most recent uploads…
<br />
And here is a playlist of recommended videos from other channels…
Share this:
in
Share
.
.
Like this:
12 Responses to Videos
KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:
August 25, 2013 at 6:55 pm
With every word they reveal and “impart” far more than they ever intended…
Reply
george says:
August 27, 2013 at 4:45 am
Sorry Cedars, I can only access the first video on my I pad. There are a lot of over sized play icons and they won’t work.
Reply
Luke says:
October 27, 2013 at 5:27 pm
Continue the good work on this site that expose what Watchtower Organization really are — a fanatic end-time driven cult that only serve interests of its leaders. I left this
cult three years ago for good. My only regret is that I had not left the Watchtower Cult earlier! On Easter Sunday this year, I was baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and received into Eastern Orthodox Church, apostolic Church that preserved the Faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
Cedar, you have my blessings of your work on this site that
will yet help millions of JWs to see the truth of so-called ‘Truth’.
Reply
Fred says:
November 2, 2013 at 12:09 pm
Forget taking your numbers from a 1974 yearbook if you question the amount of those killed, interned, etc get the numbers from the Holocaust museum. You forgot to mention the ‘JEWS’ were and its quoted several times in the Watchtower publications as it is related in the bible, “ONCE GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE” but they did not remain that because of their actions. Your quotes from WT publications are based on the latter that they fell out of favour in God’s eyes. They therefor were NOT written in an anti-Semitic nature. Many Jews have become JW’s over the years are they lesser beings because they were of Jewish blood?…ABSOLUTELY NOT! All races are equal so this video in my opinion is twisted in its presentation. Not to mention the ridiculous claim of Rutherford’s so called love letter to Adolf Hitler. No blinders on here, I have checked the facts. Sorry but this video paints an untruthful twist of events and statements about the WT as regards the comments on the Nazi’s and Jews.
Reply
Palma says:
February 28, 2014 at 3:48 am
Hi everybody! Hi cedars!
I found this article about a discovery in egypt that brings light to the origin of story of joseph in the bible.
What do you think?http://www.davidovits.info/the-lost-fresco-and-the-bible-my-new-book-in-french/
Reply
Idris says:
March 27, 2014 at 8:12 am
Thank you for this page, it has been a great help to me, as I seek the truth of the word of God, however I noticed in the video ‘Does the Bible speak of ‘Paradise Earth’ the speaker quotes Luke 21v43 twice, regarding Jesus word on the cross, there should be a correction note as the verse he mentions is in Luke 23 v 43.
Keep up the good work
Reply
Julia Orwell says:
July 17, 2014 at 3:47 am
Been to internationals before and this elaborate souvenir thing is entirely new. The last one I went to in 2009, the last ones they had, had nothing like this so it’s not a matter of you having not noticed it in the past, it’s a matter of it being a new phenomenon.
I theorize that the wt motives for this involve keeping the masses busy and therefore obedient. Jws would volunteer to do this because there are no other legitimate outlets for creative expression. Armageddon being near has nothing to do with it: it’s about keeping the sheeple busy and happy. Making stupid trinkets is also a team building activity as it involves jws working together, thus reinforcing the herd mentality jws have.
Reply
frankie fernandez says:
February 27, 2015 at 4:44 pm
dear friends I was baptized in 1974. Thank God I am no longer a member of the WT. Free at last and oh what a relief it is. A member of my former congregation who I considerd my best friend molested a minor. There was a big argument amognst the elders on the judicial committee. One elder who was a maverick, wanted to notify the police. But, instead they followed the instuctions of the society. They kept this crime against the child, hush hush. So as not to tarnish the name of Jehovah. But in reality it was a coverup to protect the wt’s reputation. Meanwhile this poor child that was raped has to carry the heavy burden of a victim for the rest of thier lives without compensation and without justice. While the abuser has remaind a member in good standing. The congregation he is attending now has not been notified that he is a sexual preditor.
Reply
Kirtley W. Burggraf says:
March 11, 2015 at 11:16 am
Tell me, since governing body members are elected (replacing someone who dies) at what point do do they become “divinely inspired” or “spirit guided”? Were they always thus in the lower ranks or does this just “happen” the moment that they are appointed? What’s Watchtower’s take on this?
Reply
Alone in MD says:
March 31, 2015 at 6:00 pm
Regards your video on the Memorial Service. I am one of those “non believers” married to a baptized witness. I go to just keep the peace but I’ve made it known that I consider this service one of the worst religious ceremonies that I have ever been to. “Anointed What”. Also it was announced at last years meeting that “this may be the last memorial service”. They are at it again. Thanks for the great videos.
Reply
frankie fernandez says:
May 10, 2015 at 9:50 pm
IF CHRIST WAS ENTHRONGED IN 1914, WHY ARE THE WITNESES STILL CELEBRATING THE MEMORIAL? CHRIST SAID THAT AFTER HIS ARRIVAL NO ONE WAS TO CELEBRATE THE MEMORIAL .ALSO HE SAID THAT THE DAY OF HIS PRESENSE, IT WILL BE LIKE LIGHTNING FROM ONE POINT OF THE EARTH TO ANOTHER. LIGHTNING TRAVELS AT THE SPEED OF 3500 MILES PER SECOUND. SO IT WILL TRAVEL AROUND THE GLOBE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE. HE ALSO SAID THAT ALL EYES WILL SEE HIM. NOT LIKE THE WTS THAT SAYS WE ARE IN HIS INVISIBLE PRESENSE.
Reply
pj wilcox says:
July 31, 2015 at 3:21 am
I watched the latest video of the inept elder being questioned by the commission. Who prepared this man for testimony? You all are aware of the dentist who shot Cecil the lion in Kenya? Well his life is over. He is in hiding. What he did ,did not break laws in Kenya and his is in a world of trouble with public sentiment. But this elder being questioned is far worse. He covered deeds that drove people to think of killing themselves. Should he not go into hiding? Is his life over? Has he know conscience? Emotion, caring? You know the answer. Bet ya, damage control is working overtime on this.
Reply
Leave a Reply
Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *
Name *
Email *
Website
Comment
You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>
applications-education-miscellaneous.png
Comment posting guidelines:
Kindly observe the following requirements before posting any comments to our articles or pages:
◾ABUSIVE COMMENTS - Do not post comments that include swear words or may be considered abusive, lewd, blasphemous, obscene or threatening
◾ILLEGAL COMMENTS - Do not post comments that condone or propose illegal activity, or that breach copyright law
◾OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS - Do not post comments that are off-topic and bear no relation to the page or article
◾RELIGIOUS NEUTRALITY - Do not post comments that are evangelical in nature or may be construed as imposing one person's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) over those of another
◾LANGUAGE - Visitors from all countries and language groups are welcome. You may post comments in languages other than English, but we would appreciate if you could make any such comments brief. We would also be grateful if you could run any such comments through Google Translate and convert these to English, but this is not an absolute requirement.
◾LINKS - You may post links to third party websites, so long as (1) you limit these to 2 links per comment, and (2) the content on these links doesn't contravene ANY of the first four points. Specifically, you may not post URLs to websites that are evangelical in nature. Our links page has an extensive list of such sites for any who are curious about Christian beliefs in the context of Jehovah's Witnesses.
JWSurvey.org thanks all visitors in advance for respectfully observing these guidelines. Any who persistently fail to do so, despite warnings, may find themselves blocked from making further comments at the discretion of the site moderators, whose decision will be final and not open for debate.
Notify me of new posts by email.
Click on
Visit JWfacts.com for more information on JW beliefs
Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses
JW Recovery forum
Barbara Anderson's Watchtower Documents resource
Visit JWstruggle.com for helpful information on exiting JW mind control Visit TAZE.co for discussion on Jehovah's Witness developments
Support JWsurvey
Help us make continued improvements to this website and its content.
Article Categories
◾Apostates (28)
◾Blood transfusions (12)
◾Books (5)
◾Cedars' Blog (211)
◾Cedars' Story (4)
◾Celebrity JWs (2)
◾Child Abuse (51)
◾Child Indoctrination (16)
◾Divine Direction (4)
◾Domestic Abuse (2)
◾Doomsday Predictions (1)
◾Downsizing (7)
◾Evolution and creation (6)
◾General Information (1)
◾Governing Body (34)
◾Higher education (3)
◾History and scandals (6)
◾JW.org (8)
◾Life Stories (10)
◾Mental health (5)
◾Mini-Surveys (5)
◾News (191)
◾Property sales (5)
◾Publications (6)
◾Shunning (13)
◾Support (6)
◾Survey (11)
◾Undue influence (16)
◾Warwick headquarters (4)
Search JWsurvey
Subscribe to JW Survey
Enter your email address to receive notices of new posts by email.
Join 836 other subscribers
Email Address
Listen to JWpodcast
Check out the latest episode of JW podcast!
Latest John Cedars video
Popular JW sites in other languages
Languages
More languages...
Select... Croatian Czech Dutch Estonian Finnish 1 Finnish 2 French 1 French 2 French 3 German 1 German 2 Hungarian Italian 1 Italian 2 Italian 3 Japanese Polish 1 Polish 2 Polish 3 Portuguese 1 Portuguese 2 Romanian Russian 1 Russian 2 Russian 3 Serbian 1 Serbian 2 Serbian 3 Slovak Spanish 1 Spanish 2
Top Posts & Pages
David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
Following the "Return to Jehovah" release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
Following the "Return to Jehovah" release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
Links
Links
JW Broadcasting
JW Broadcasting
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
Videos
Videos
Key Articles
Is JWsurvey.org an apostate website?
What is the new light on the faithful slave?
Has Watchtower ever lied or withheld informatiion?
Open Offer
Open Offer to all bethelites
Do you work at Brooklyn, Patterson or Wallkill? If so, please click here.
Our Promise
Making corrections
Is there something incorrect or unfactual on this website? If so, please let us know and we will correct it.
2015 results at a glance
Number of respondents to the 2015 Global Survey
Site Stats
Visitor stats for JWsurvey
Like us on Facebook!
Cedars’ Twitter Feed
Who's Online
◾0 Members.
◾29 Guests.
Reader Comments
◾JB Reezner on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
◾Pickled brain on David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)
Menu
◾About JW Survey
◾Contact Us
◾Experiences
◾Get Involved
◾Global Surveys ◾2011 Global Survey
◾2012 Global Survey
◾2013 Global Survey
◾2014 Global Survey
◾2015 Global Survey
◾JW Broadcasting
◾JWawake.com
◾Links
◾Videos
◾Welcome
Login
◾Login
Scan JWsurvey.org
Copyright © 2011-2013 JWsurvey.org. Site design and support by The Small Web Master.
StatCounter - Free Web Tracker and Counter
http://jwsurvey.org/video-home
Tweets
Follow
11 Sep
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Tonight I'm going to the cinema in Zagreb to watch a Scientologist hanging from an airplane.
Expand Reply
Retweet
Favorite
10 Sep
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Governing Body member David Splane tries to unravel the dubious "overlapping generation" teaching... http://wp.me/p1TWXJ-24L
Show Summary
5 Sep
Snoop-a-Loop @Alesiskorg
@cedarsjwsurvey truly honestly thank you. I have two children and a wife and thankfully she woke up at the same time as me....
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
Expand
5 Sep
Snoop-a-Loop @Alesiskorg
@cedarsjwsurvey well as an ex JW MS & elders son I thank u as others 4 helping me see the unfortunate absurdities of what I believed
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
Expand
5 Sep
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
James Strait has written a fine piece on the role played by fear in #cult mind control... http://wp.me/p1TWXJ-24v
Show Summary
4 Sep
Sam Harris ✔ @SamHarrisOrg
Is this real? If so, it's a shocking example of bad incentives turning ordinary people into sociopaths: https://twitter.com/brianpayne177/status/639962133736722433 …
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
Expand
26 Aug
Stick Pins @FinchLydia
@cedarsjwsurvey Was recently interviewed for a podcast about my childhood as a JW. Gave JWSurvey a shout out 😀 https://twitter.com/prismpodcast/status/636500801616277504 …
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
Expand
6 Aug
MyBirthRight @My_BirthRight
My beautiful cat getting in on some Cedars channel action
btw @cedarsjwsurvey you're my fav! #exjw #cats #Ragdolls pic.twitter.com/XE1RmbKqg5
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
View image on Twitter
Expand
30 Aug
Watchtower&Awakening @ApostateAwake
Watch this interview by @cedarsjwsurvey with an Ex-Jehovah's Witness and phycologist...
https://youtu.be/zZBS1XcLAvk
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
Show Media
4 Sep
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Please check out my interview with domestic abuse survivor Janiene Adamse http://youtube.com/watch?v=zLFOZTZ3gKA …
Show Media
4 Sep
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
If it's a book printed by #Watchtower between now and 1920, I now have it thanks to my readers and subscribers!
Expand
4 Sep
Anthony Morris III @Anthony_Morris3
Is it really that hard to believe that I know more about science than geologists, geneticists, biologists, and chemists?
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
Expand
4 Sep
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Thank you @hemantmehta for allowing Zimmerman to highlight this little-understood but emotionally devastating facet of #jehovahswitnesses
Expand
4 Sep
Deliverance at Hand! @DeliverAtHand
Patheos is featuring a guest post from James Zimmerman titled, "Disfellowshipping by Jehovah's Witnesses: A... http://fb.me/1ZdjpLeAa
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
Expand
4 Sep
Hemant Mehta @hemantmehta
Disfellowshipping by Jehovah’s Witnesses: A Brief History http://tinyurl.com/ou42tk4
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
Expand
4 Sep
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Is #Watchtower taking a closer interest in the reasons why #JehovahsWitnesses become inactive? http://wp.me/p1TWXJ-24h
Show Summary
3 Sep
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
It's time some people faced up to the fact that there are no countries, only one planet that cradles human lives. #refugeeswelcome
Expand
3 Sep
Stephen Evans @Stephenmevans1
Ugly, divisive rhetoric from @AlexSalmond revealing a similarly unattractive attitude https://twitter.com/TheScotsman/status/639363017080217600 …
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
Expand
2 Sep
Anthony Morris III @Anthony_Morris3
More people should stand up for what they believe in. Well, I mean as long as it is the same stuff I believe in.
Retweeted by Lloyd Evans
Expand
1 Sep
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
ISIS, Cults, and Religious Extremists: How Mind Control Really Works https://www.yahoo.com/health/isis-cults-and-religious-extremists-how-mind-120776498957.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw … via @YahooHealth
Show Summary
Load More
Tweet to @cedarsjwsurvey
http://jwsurvey.org/
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
No comments:
Post a Comment