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An apology, and update on what’s in store for JWsurvey
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Posted on August 29, 2015
During a recent trip across Europe I was able to interview a number of exJW activists
During a recent trip across Europe I was able to interview a number of exJW activists
First off, I need to apologize for being so absent from posting articles over the last few weeks! As some of you know, I spent a month in northern Europe between late July and late August initially for the purpose of attending two exJW weddings – one of which I had been asked to officiate at.
Once I realized I would be away from home for such a long time, I decided I might as well make the most of it and do some activism while on the road. I took along my camera and ended up filming no less than 8 interview videos with various exJWs/activists, which I am still in the process of uploading to my YouTube channel. Here is one such video with recently-awoken ministerial servant Daniel Genser in Holland…
I also got involved in observing Watchtower Victims Memorial Day while in Belgium…
During my trip I also had the pleasure of being interviewed about the recent “Texas billboard” initiative on the “Ask An Atheist” podcast, and I was delighted to be involved in this conversation about cults with ex-Scientologist YouTuber Chris Shelton…
As productive as this trip ended up being, the timing could not have been worse as far as developments in the world of Jehovah’s Witnesses are concerned. Why? Because this trip coincided with Australia’s Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Abuse, and its case study of Jehovah’s Witnesses – arguably the most significant development in the sphere of Watchtower and child abuse since the Candace Conti verdict.
The sheer volume of meaningful information brought to light by the commission, and especially the skilled questioning by senior council Angus Stewart, took me completely by surprise. Likely it will take weeks or even months to fully process what came out of the testimony of various elders and Watchtower officials, including governing body member Geoffrey Jackson. In fact, I have no doubt the information gleaned will prove useful in analyzing the organization and its processes for many years to come.
I’m extremely grateful to “CovertFade” and Karen Morgan for keeping the home fires burning with their articles on various parts of the Witness testimony during my absence. I have now set to work on an article and video aimed at delving into the testimony given to the commission by Geoffrey Jackson that will highlight some of the outright deceptions contained therein.
Though I’m disappointed not to have been available to cover the commission evidence while it was in progress, I was at least able to discuss it during this conversation with fellow activists Marc Latham, Louise Goode and Karen Morgan during my trip…
Apart from picking up the pieces with the royal commission, over the coming weeks I will be working on a special project to commemorate “JWsurvey Day” on October 4th – a new event to mark the site’s first launch on October 4th 2011. Along with a number of fellow exJWs and activists I will be releasing a special montage video titled “What you DON’T know about apostates.”
If you are interested in getting involved with the video or some other aspect of JWsurvey Day, please join the JWsurvey Day group on Facebook for more information (PLEASE remember to use a fake account when using Facebook if you are a current or fading Witness). The music to be used in our special montage, slated for release on October 4th, is below…
Over the coming weeks I will be preoccupied with attending to various other business, such as finally getting the results of the 2014 global survey published, and working on my book. I am also currently exploring the viability of a special partnership with a YouTube network aimed at getting the John Cedars channel (and thereby this site) more exposure.
There’s plenty to do, but I love my activism work and I wouldn’t have it any other way. In the meantime, I apologize to everyone for going AWOL over the last few weeks. I will try to make it up to you with some quality articles and videos in the near future!
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← Royal Commission’s Angus Stewart accuses Watchtower representative of deliberate deception
Following the “Return to Jehovah” release, is the net closing on inactive ones? →
91 Responses to An apology, and update on what’s in store for JWsurvey
Newer Comments →
Brad says:
August 29, 2015 at 6:04 am
Sounds like a productive trip. I was wondering when you were going to post on it. Thanks for the update Lloyd!
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Lemonparty.org says:
August 29, 2015 at 6:13 am
Hey, here is the Reddit master thread of the RC highlights. All points are described and will jump directly to the relevant part of the video.
https://redd.it/3g4460
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ScotWm says:
August 30, 2015 at 11:11 pm
Thanks for the link to this valuable resource.
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Domingos Abreu says:
August 29, 2015 at 6:34 am
Go on! i read you every day.
thank you and good work! your success is ours.
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Garrett says:
August 29, 2015 at 6:36 am
Lloyd
While you were away, not unlike Moses up on the Mountain, your sheep wandered aimlessly in the plains below. We were just about to make a golden calf , (or go to the liquor store for more beer) when you came back online, your face aglow holding 10… (or 8 for accuracy) interviews in your hands.
Welcome back!
Sela- A melody of Garrett
(To be sung in raptured joy)
All copy rights apply, the golden calf and burning bush (batteries required) can be returned with original box in 30 days for full refund.
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Cedars says:
August 29, 2015 at 6:44 am
lol, it’s a shame the golden calf never got made! I assume it’s a flatpack from IKEA? 😉
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Matthew P says:
August 29, 2015 at 7:03 am
Thanks for the update Lloyd! I’m glad you had a productive trip. Keep up the good work. Take care.
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Lilly Harstad says:
August 29, 2015 at 7:26 am
Don’t forget that you also participated in a podcast-episode about the RC :)
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ruthlee says:
August 29, 2015 at 8:26 am
hello all out there dear cedars we have missed you but hope you and family had a good trip and a rest from us i really do think this site is gathering momentum some of the comments and reaction to arc and jw fiasco is just not going away and we all have things to share i hope you and your team friends dont get too overwhelmed but it is evident to me we are in need of this voice that little whisper is getting louder day by day so keep up the good work best wishes still running with the hare and hunting with the hounds rl
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EverydayExplorer says:
August 29, 2015 at 10:07 am
Informative update, Lloyd. Many thanks. Watched your video, Special Interview: The Royal Commission. Found it an engaging, balanced discussion. Agree with you in above post that the momentum is unstoppable now. Just one new phenomenon is the surge of individuals recording themselves for YouTube calling Aussie WT HQ, New York HQ, Mill Hill UK HQ, etc, and asking directly about the WT’s investigation by the Royal Commission. I’m sure many of us on jwsurvey know about this, but for those who don’t yet — folks, check ’em out … more heart-warming activism spotlighting what WT must do to change its cruel policies on handling sex abuse.
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Charley says:
August 29, 2015 at 10:48 am
Cedars, Iv’e never posted before, but would like to have some contact with you regarding the Royal Commission.
Not too comfortable posting anything on this site before speaking with you. I have an involvement in it at a personal level………..Hope to find some way to make contact.
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Cedars says:
August 29, 2015 at 10:51 am
Hi Charley. Feel free to email me at cedars@jwsurvey.org and I will do my best to help.
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Fatchance says:
September 1, 2015 at 2:57 pm
Is there anyway of getting in touch with Daniel Genser? I read his article and watched the interview. I am trying to become a software developer and I am seeking advice. I am currently in a small town still dependent on my parents and struggling to fade. Long story short I am hoping to find a job as a software developer(needing Daniel’s insight) so I can move elsewhere in an effort to fade.
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Imacountrygirl says:
August 29, 2015 at 12:13 pm
Shocker alert: You’ve been GONE??? Who knew?
Hahahaha…..Your fill-ins have been doing a great job of keeping us informed about the Royal Commission.
Overall, I think the Commission’s questions were spot on, though there were a few times I said (to myself) “If they would only pursue that line of reasoning further or ask the right question or word it differently, they would get a different response and could have exposed the Organization further”. They would have needed an insider to guide them though they were quite knowledgeable about the inner workings of the JWs.
Welcome back and I look forward to our future!
At one time I thought nothing serious was going to happen to the organization in my lifetime. But if 65 is the new 45, I have hope now that I will live to see the collapse of the GB’s power and control.
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Pickled brain says:
August 30, 2015 at 9:41 pm
@ I’m a countrygirl. I Concur with your points about pursuing the line of reasoning with Jackson further & For instance if Angus had pushed Jackson over the BLOOD FRACTIONS issue. Angus allowed Jackson to Spout on About how With Medical Advances the GB have updated their Blood Policy!
OH ANGUS ! I wish you had Said ‘ Before year 2000 if a JW had taken HEMOGLOBIN would he have been Disfellowshipped & SHUNNED??? BUT after year 2000 it was perfectly acceptable to have HEMOGLOBIN which is 33% of Red Blood!! I felt Angus did a Reasonable Job as He wasn’t raised a Witness so he doesn’t know how to REALLY NAIL these 7 Evil men down completely, But Give Angus his due I was IMPRESSED with his research on scriptures & Peter McCellan Really nailed Jackson on Corporal Punishment though I wished both of them could have used the Watchtower & Awake mags against them and Quoted from them !
But this Royal Commission was real progress as it highlighted the DISGUSTING WAY Chlld Abuse is handled before 3 Men in our Organisation!! & Angus got Jackson to admit there is a problem with Child Abuse among those who hold positions of responsibility such as Elders. So there is REAL PROGRESS!!
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JWIntellect says:
August 29, 2015 at 3:46 pm
Welcome back!
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jeff canning says:
August 29, 2015 at 5:33 pm
keep up the good work now that I have found you and others like you I have plenty of good stuff to read, shame it is so sad at times to hear other shunned ones stories…
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Michele says:
August 29, 2015 at 7:28 pm
I would like to say that I have been reading your information off and on for a while. I am 47 years old and I was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness. I also visited my father for Christmas and Summers so I was a Baptists also. I found myself believing the Witnesses more than the Baptists. However, as I got older I started feeling really terribly about disfellowshipping because I watched a friend of mine family totally disowned her after she decided that she didn’t want to be a witness. She was the kindest person, but she was just a teenager and needed her family the most and they shunned her. I knew this could be from God. So I up and graduated and joined the Marines instead of becoming a special pioneer. Then I felt terrible about saluting the Flag. My whole life has been in limbo because I would study than back off. I never felt like I belonged anywhere. I still don’t. I come here often to hear the latest on what is going on and I feel sick, like my whole life was on limbo for a BIG LIE. Now my mom is in it and she lives with me and I worry about her a lot because I know that she believes that Jehovah will send his Holy Spirit upon the Governing body to correct what I have been telling her about this pedophile issue. I want to tell her friends that I love but I don’t want them to tell the brothers because I don’t want them to pick on my mom. I can stand up for myself, but she will shatter. She had a hard life and she needs the thought of Jehovah’s kingdom to justify her existence for the last 50 or so years. I am sad.
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Queen Elsa says:
August 29, 2015 at 11:56 pm
Michelle, I’m sorry you are in the situation you are in… I’m in a similar one… Please know you are not alone…
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Michele says:
September 7, 2015 at 5:30 pm
It is good to know that others understand what I am feeling. It wish that I was alone in feeling that way because that mean that this wicked organization has corrupted so many more than me. It has to stop.
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Pj wilcox says:
August 30, 2015 at 12:58 am
Your not alone. These JWs prey on our weakness. For 45 years I had to live with the cult like thinking. 2 years ago I reached out to a friend I knew and met 45 years ago who was a witness. Her name is Barbara Anderson. We speak daily. She has showed me how to change my cult like thinking. I do not know how I am still alive today. I was molested but not by a JW at 13. What happen from then on was a life in a narsistic home of self destruction. Don’t feel guilty. As a person connected to military I understand your confusion. I have learned to be comfortable being uncomfortable
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Michele says:
September 7, 2015 at 5:32 pm
Thank you so much…Your words take the edge off of what I have been feeling.
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Gameisover says:
August 30, 2015 at 1:52 am
Michele, I can see why you have mixed feelings and feel guilty. So do I.
I awoke from this terrible nightmare and saw the light (after nearly fifty years!). I Found a measure of comfort and happiness.
But not my children or grandchildren. I brought them up from babyhood into this murderous cult. It’s my fault and I can’t fix it. I feel sad too…..
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Idontknowhatodo says:
September 2, 2015 at 2:11 am
gameisover….it sounds like we are in a similair position…Im 57 and my eyes have been opened the last two years…Im married to a lovely man…a dedicated jw who tries hard to be a true follower and all my children and thier spouses are also commited jws…I nearly left jws when in my 30s but could not bear to see my husband so broken hearted…I now wish I had for my childrens sake…the monthly broadcasts have really finished me though … I always thought it was a good wayof life till these men became flesh and blood cult leaders on screen… I now have to play a role so that I am not left completely alone as I have no life outside of the organization and am heartsick at all my missed opportunities…but I cannot be shunned by my children I think if that happened I would want to die…so I have to be content with the freedom of my mind…hopefully I can fade one day…and I want to sew some seeds of dobt in my childrens head…that I can do…discreetly…my oldest daughter is already railing against the roll of women and thier position of second class citizen in the organization…I now believe in nothing …. its a sad thing to countenance but I am finding my way slowly…this site helps me see Im not alone.
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EverydayExplorer says:
September 2, 2015 at 7:08 am
Idontknowwhattodo, the freedom of your mind is a powerful, beautiful and vital resource. Well done you, for taking back your personal liberty.
I have several loved family members still in as JWs; I have never been one myself, nor my spouse, but we certainly have been exposed to years of vicarious undue influence from family members who were/are JWs.
I would be so happy to know that they might be near experiencing your new-found private but very real freedom of mind. Don’t give up.
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Michele says:
September 7, 2015 at 5:35 pm
I am sorry that you feel that you can’t fix it. They are YOUR family and your Bloodline. There has got to be a way to help our loved ones to realize that we mean them no harm, but we want them to be happy.
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holy Connoli says:
August 30, 2015 at 4:02 am
Michelle. I to like many others felt I had wated thebette part of my life as a JW. I became a Jw at around 19 years ols and gave 110% to the JW’s for more than23 years until I was around 42-43 years old and I could not do it anymore. In my mind I could see how wrong they were but like all JW’s I had children and my wife was ( still is ) a BIGTIME JW and pioneer etc. Everything in my life was connected with being a JW. friends, work, social life, me being a respected Elder, etc.I was hating my life, It was so monotoneous and I boring, I knew it was a lie and I could see more and more how JW’s could not think for themselves or have a rational discussion. I was scared to leave bc of the DFing thing and that my own family whom I loved would not be allowed to talk with me. All this and the fact that I thought to myself wow, did I waste my life? Did I teach my family the wrong life and put them into a cult? What am I to do now that I have awoken? This was nearly 20 years ago before the internet had these support groups and blogs etc. Of course the JW guilt thing as well. So I decided to just fade away. It wasn’t easy as people would call me, people would, not talk w me. however little by little it became better. Much Better.I began to see things differently, I wasn’t afraid to “THINK” I reasoned on history and the JW organization nd how many times they have been wrong and still are.I developed other friends and other interests. I never divorced for personal reasons, my family is still here and only my wife and daughter are active JW’s. My sons and nephew are not and we “JOKE” about our days as JW’s. I know this sounds simple and I feel your pain bc at the time of my awakening and departure from the JW org it was mental torture to me. So I am encouraging you bc I know what you are going through. It isn’t to late and you have to become a philosopher and realize that life can take us a ll in many directions and we are not fully in control much of the time. It part of the journey that put you in the JW org.The Journey is not over and you can still make a good life for the time remaining. You need to develop other interests and do other things, make new friends, join a few groups, sports, book club, social media, hiking, take some educational courses, music courses, study something ( not the WT LOL! ) Stay active in something you like, Life is still full and little by little you will be ok. Believe me it will happen.
All the Best in your journey and healing
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Michele says:
September 7, 2015 at 5:50 pm
Thank you… I actually finally decided to get my Bachelor’s in Business. I am in school now finishing up my Associate’s degree. Of course, my favorite course is Compartive Religion because I kind of feel like I need to find a new religion that doesn’t indoctrinate you, but Enlighten you. I believe that there is a powerful Being who created this wonderful universe. I just don’t know how much to believe of the scriptures that men interpreted. This feeling has a lot to do with my distrust of people telling me what I supposed to feel and think about creation and Life. I still pray. I just don’t know if his name is really Jehovah. I don’t even know if Jesus is real anymore. I ask my Higher being to forgive me everyday because I can’t accept the Trinity. The witnesses always say, that one of the worst sins is stumbling another person on forging a relationship with Jehovah, Yahweh, whatever. Yet as you can see from my writings, they have stumbled me, threw me down, kicked me and left me bewildered. I am slowly getting back up and I am learning to trust my abilities to problem solve and to investigate on my own for the time being. Thanks for sharing your story. It really helped.
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Rainbow says:
August 29, 2015 at 9:45 pm
Can not wait for Royal Commission Vlogs from you!
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Pj wilcox says:
August 30, 2015 at 12:51 am
WHat the heck are you talking about, are you addressing here? Fluff?
Is there not any concern about those abused by elders in the JW organization?
Are you putting your head in the sand when it comes to child abuse in Australia?
Where is this substance? Why not talk about this? Or have you lost your sense of compassion? Beats me
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Cedars says:
August 30, 2015 at 12:53 am
Are you seriously suggesting I lack concern and compassion for victims of child abuse simply because I have been away and thus unable to write about the commission?
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Pj wilcox says:
August 30, 2015 at 1:02 am
I don’t know. Do you ever address it? Any compassion for those abused. Why does your conversation cover everything but that? Seems to me you like to hear yourself talk. I could be wrong but so far on all these threads everyone is so full of themselves. Much like Jackson testifying on the stand, quoting scripture but never once showing compassion for the abused and having a an to help them. You tell me
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Cedars says:
August 30, 2015 at 1:06 am
Wow, I thought for a moment you might be joking or reacting to someone else, but apparently you’re serious. Because I was busy attending weddings during the royal commission and thus unable to report on it as I would have liked, apparently I am devoid of compassion for child abuse victims. And apologizing for the lack of articles and updating my readers on what is happening with JWsurvey makes me no better than Geoffrey Jackson.
In a comment to another poster, you say that Barbara Anderson has been helping you get rid of cult thinking. I would suggest this project is by no means finished.
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Cedars says:
August 30, 2015 at 1:13 am
For everyone else, I’ve blocked PJ wilcox for her silly, insulting behavior, which I have no doubt is due at least in part to her cult experience. Hopefully she will eventually learn how to interact with others without accusing them of being passive towards child abuse simply for being too busy to comment, at which point she will be welcome to return.
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anonymous says:
August 30, 2015 at 4:06 am
Thanks Lloyd for blocking PJ wilcox. Her comments were insulting not only to you but all comments here and nonsensical to say the least. I have a hard time even believing anything she said, especially when she said that after she was molested at 13, her life after that was in a narcissistic destructive home of self destruction. That doesn’t make any sense. Why would being molested at the age of 13 have anything to do with after that having to live in a narcissistic home of self destruction??? Her whole comment sounded like she was just trying to garner attention. Narcissists like to get attention by insulting other people and making up stories and they will hurt anybody and everybody to get that attention.
Don’t let nutters like her hurt you. We are all glad you are back and we all know from all your comments and articles and videos how much you care about abuse victims!!!
Rose Graziano says:
August 30, 2015 at 7:44 am
Thank you for being so considerate of your readers. My husband (now an ex-elder) and I have recently come to see TTATT. We have been devistated by all that we have learned but we can’t be vocal about it due to the fact that both our grown children are still very active. Our son is a ministerial servant and our daughter is married to a servant and has two children of their own. We fear we will lose all we hold dear. So we are slowly beginning our “fade” by not being so visible and have stopped our ministry. Your articles and videos have helped us and your own story is very touching. I just wanted to thank you for activism because you are a voice for those of us who do not and cannot have such freeness of speech.
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John Chapman says:
August 30, 2015 at 8:02 am
[Silly off-topic conspiracy theory post removed. Please refrain from making any further such comments or you will be prevented from posting.]
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Darlene says:
August 30, 2015 at 11:18 am
Welcome back!!!
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Sister drifter UK says:
August 30, 2015 at 11:22 am
Do we know when the Royal Commision will resume??
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Ted says:
August 30, 2015 at 12:14 pm
BP j wilcox is totally unjustified in lashing out at Cedars and
all who comment here, claiming we are “Full of ourselves”
and lacking in compassion for those abused by elders.
All of us have been abused in varying degrees by the WT Cult
and many are STILL being abused on a daily basis, through
loss of normal family contact as a result of the cruel shunning
policy. Cedars is included in those.
I am deeply sorry that p,j, Wilcox suffered molestation, aged 13,
It is also something that continues to abuse, long after the
molestation has stopped. Some others who comment here have
also suffered such vile treatment.
Rather than being “Full of ourselves” then , we can empathise
and have “Compassion” with others who have been abused,
and this has been evident in recent comments on the Australian
R,C. P,J,Ws attack is unwarranted and without foundation.
One final thought. It takes time to produce a well considered
article into all that took place at the R.C, it’s not something
that can be dashed off in half an hour.
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ruthlee says:
August 30, 2015 at 12:52 pm
its ironic that people would accuse us of the very thing we are trying to fight decontruct or just plain have a rant about!! all of us on this site to some degree or another have been abused even if it was only deception so there should be and i do think, there is a measure of respect and good behaviour so i understand that comments have to be blocked but the majority of us are so pleased this site is in existence. im not wobbling in my resolve to do my bit but timing is everything so cedars we really do appreciate your commitment to activism on a point can i get intouch with you on the subject of charities in uk? rl
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
August 30, 2015 at 1:17 pm
Thank you!
I was surprised by skilled questioning by senior council Angus Stewart, too. How did he get to know Watchtower’s manipulations so deeply. I wish he was an international consultant and save people beyond Australia boundaries.
In Africa, we are awakening, too!
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Grace says:
August 30, 2015 at 2:38 pm
PJ Wilcox,
I think maybe you need some serious therapy. Your comments seemed to be up & down, a little bit manic. I hope that you get the right help.
Cedars,
Great to see you back. I’m looking forward to what you noticed in GJ’s statements.
I have a theory as to why GJ stalled every question that was put to him with comments like, “thank you for asking that question” or “That was a good question, let me answer it”. Just about every response had that & I think that he needed those comments to let whoever was coaching him to remind him of what he was to say with each of the questions.
I don’t know if he was allowed to have his lawyers in the room with him but they some how managed to pull off one thing & that was to have him questioned on their terms & not in the hot seat.
His advisors would have gone through the previous questionings & put it together to make sure that he gets it right so that the faithful r&f who watched, hanging off his every word would not be stumbled by him. His responses were designed for them.
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Pickled brain says:
August 30, 2015 at 10:03 pm
@Grace . I agree with your comments. I felt Jackson was Stalling at times with his MOCK HUMILITY & Jackson was given too much Leeway to Spout the ORGANISATION LINE of Thinking & was aimed at the R&F JW ! But there was Real Progress as my comments above to Imacountrygirl’ reiterates .
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Catalina says:
August 30, 2015 at 2:40 pm
Wow, John Cedars. Do you realize how important what you are doing is to everyone? Oh my lord… This is the only website I can find that has this kind of meaningful conversation. I feel so much better and I feel so much stronger meeting the people on this website. You guys mean a lot to me. I’m very thankful.
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Pickled brain says:
August 30, 2015 at 10:07 pm
@ Catalina . You Dear Lady , have made such BEAUTIFUL COMMENTS & I think All on this site would Echo your words entirely.
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Garrett says:
August 30, 2015 at 6:06 pm
Martin Luther King once said ” I have a dream”
It was an almost insane dream given the circumstances at the time. That blacks and whites should live together in harmony and peace, but he had a dream.
That dream in the last decades has largely come true.
We even have a black president.
I TOO have a dream. I am dreaming of an after party. A time when this evil organization falls and all of us victims come together from all corners of the planet and finally meet and shake hands and party and celebrate together. What an event that would be! I think Lloyd is right. Call me a fool but I think we are seeing the cracks in the tower and I hope in the coming few years we will see it falter and fall.
My dream is for all of us to have one big party. Although I am from Minnesota, I can think of no better place to have a global celebration than in London, the world capitol.
Do you all share my dream? Would you be willing to make the plane flight for such an event??
I have a dream.
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Pickled brain says:
August 30, 2015 at 10:14 pm
@ Garrett . I HAVE A DREAM TOO!! That very soon BIG FURRY CUDDLY LION that is pictured in the JW Publications would come & BITE Geoffrey JACKSONs ‘ HEAD OFF’ & the other 6 GB Members!! & their ROLLING HEADS could have their Eyes Plucked out by the Birds of Revelation! I am just tucking into fried Egg & Bacon for breakfast in the UK! I am sorry I can’t stop Laughing! I knew I shouldn’t have watched Monty Python when I was a young boy !!!
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Ocma says:
August 31, 2015 at 8:11 pm
I was told that the birds will eat my tongue out of my dead body! Can that happen to the GB too, cheers.
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Pickled brain says:
August 31, 2015 at 9:15 pm
@Ocma . Cheers too you !! I have just read the bible reading this week 2 Kings Chapters 9 to 12 about good old Jehu chopping off Heads!! Don’t you love the Old Testament or as we call it the Good old Hebrew Scriptures!!
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Ocma says:
August 31, 2015 at 11:56 pm
Exciting times in that book.
I never did the weekly bible reading, just pretended to! I’m getting sleepy just thinking about the Thursday night meeting (back in the days when it was the school first then the second half of navigating my way all over the KM, gah!)
Garrett says:
September 4, 2015 at 6:37 pm
Hahahahaaaa….pickled brain… Just read your response and about choked laughing. Call me a sentimental sucker for having a dream! Whenever this cult folds up what a laugh we we have.
And by the way… Python was the best…
G
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ahg says:
August 31, 2015 at 3:23 am
im not a brother but my family are jw same as my girlfriend my dad is an elder for the last 20 years. we are from us from the Spanish congregationon the us.
well i been try to avoid become a full jw. its been a year seance i went to the hall.
my father just give me an ultimatum because i told my dad about what was happening in Australia
he is usually really cool about me telling him apostate staff. i told him about child abuse cases before and he always is good i investigate he say it will reaffirm on me that jw is the truth.
but this time was different. he told me i have 2 weeks to get out the house, that he does not want me on the house with my brothers. and if i don’t chance my ways i will be treat like an apostate in the family.
the problem is i dont really have a lot of fends who are not a jw
will it be a good idea to become a jw and avoid loss my family
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anonymous says:
August 31, 2015 at 5:00 am
Dear ahg. How old are you? I live in the U.S. too and I think parents have to take care of you until you are 18 unless you do something illegal to get kicked out of the house. I might be wrong about that.
I became a Witness from 1964-1965 and got baptized in January 1966 and I regard it as the worst decision I ever made, now that I know what the real truth is about the truth. (That is not to say that my three children are a mistake) If you join a religion that you know in your heart is telling lies to it’s followers, you won’t have a good conscience trying to tell others about it and that is what will be expected of you.
Your father is under mind control of a cult and if you can make friends outside of the organization, I think that is what you should do. Hopefully there are relatives or friends who you can turn to for help in your situation. I personally feel you would be making a mistake to get baptized into a religion that you know is a dangerous cult.
When I say dangerous, it is because once you are baptized, you will be expected to die, rather than to take blood and you never know when or if it might happen that you may need blood to save your life. If you get married, you will be expected to marry “in the truth” and your wife will have to be a witness and you will have to live a lie with her or trick her into thinking you are a believer and you will be deceiving her as well.
If you have children, you will be expected to bring them up in a religion that you know to be false. Is living a lie for the rest of your young life worth it?
You were brought up being barred from making friends outside of the “truth” and the reason for that is simple: To keep you in the religion for fear of being alone without all your “friends”. That is sinister, evil.
The religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses doesn’t tell the truth to it’s followers, plain and simple and any religion that deliberately lies to it’s followers can in no way the the real “truth”.
Reply
Meredith J says:
August 31, 2015 at 6:02 am
Well, I am so very pleased that this blog exists. As I said before when I left there was nothing around where you could speak your mind. The internet had been around for a few years but the Watchtower had such a stronghold on everything. Some brave ones were trying to report the truth. Of course they were called apostates, which is a highly inhuman word, even though the Witnesses changed the meaning to make it really evil to suit themselves.
That is why I only recently found this site, only in the last year or so. I had gotten so used to holding all my feelings inside about the Watchtower Corporation and how to a degree it ruined part of my life as it robbed me of my best years and my relationship with God and the Bible as it left me so spiritually gutted.
What I am saying is Cedars, I am so glad you had the guts to create this site as it is a haven for those who are disturbed by the Watchtower Cult and it is needed. I think especially for those who have doubts and are thinking of getting out. With the ARC going on, I thoroughly enjoyed having a running commentary from not just those who wrote professional articles but also from those who comment on this site too.
The cruel treatment of victims of child sex abuse in the JW’s was the reason why I left many years ago. The thought of them and what they have been through makes me really sad. Yes, I am insulted that some people don’t think we feel anything for these ones. So untrue.
Reply
Meredith J says:
August 31, 2015 at 5:02 pm
On thinking about it, I do feel sorry for Pj wilcox and I do agree with Grace, that she may need some professional help to deal with her anxiety. I definitely don’t want her to feel that I hate her as I know that that will not help. It is easy to misjudge people online as we don’t know exactly what they mean sometimes. When you are depressed it is easy to get a wrong slant on things.
Reply
Barry says:
August 31, 2015 at 6:40 am
Bravo on your work! From here in Canada, i always look forward to your posts. My story is no different than many here. Baptized as a minor and DF not long after. Now, almost sixty, i have spent a lifetime segregated from my family. My deepest sadness is over time lost and moments never to be shared. It’s an obscene policy. My own rich, family life of loving wife, children and grand children are my precious consolation. Anyway, just a tip-of-the-hat from Canada…keep up the good stuff. Be well.
Reply
James Broughton says:
August 31, 2015 at 7:29 am
Barry, I don’t believe your time was wasted since you are in such a good position now to help many people.
Reply
Barry says:
August 31, 2015 at 11:19 am
Thank you James. I trumpet warnings of this cult whenever possible. My note of sadness and time refers to the many lost family moments and relationships due to a life time of being shunned. Such a waste. I only hope over time, it’s membership will see it for what it really is. Thankfully, i believe, social media is playing a huge role in shining a light on this group like never before and providing needed information. Info to trigger thought among the members.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
August 31, 2015 at 9:10 pm
@ Barry . You have a brain that reasons well! Many in JW Cuckoo land sadly don’t or are frightened because of the EVIL SHUNNING POLICY!!
Reply
James Broughton says:
August 31, 2015 at 7:11 am
Welcome back, Lloyd. Pleased you had a profitable trip. I was on holiday in France and notice that the JWs have opened a shop in Rouen, rather like a Christian Science reading room I suppose. I wonder if it will catch on elsewhere?
Reply
eyes opened says:
August 31, 2015 at 8:17 am
Hi ahg,
I feel compelled to write you. I am a mother and my heart goes out to you. Perhaps you’ve heard the saying “two wrongs don’t make a right”. Simply put, baptism may not be the best solution. You would perhaps be trading one set of problems for another. Perhaps a loving appeal to your father. Let him know you love him and you understand the hard work it takes to look after and protect a family. Let him know that you don’t want to leave home. You simply found information that you thought as a father he should be made aware of. You have proof on your side because the WBTS has a facebook page where the videos with the ARC can be viewed. There should be no issue for your father to go to the WBTS own page and check out these proceedings for himself. Let him draw his own conclusions and peacefully accept them. You cannot force someone to see something they don’t want to. But perhaps by appealing to your fathers desire for you to be truthful, honest and respectful and recognizing his desire to care for his family, you may be able to calm the situation and be allowed to remain in your home. These suggestions may not work and no doubt there are wiser people than me who may be able to help you but if these words offer nothing more than a measure of comfort then that is something good. May you find comfort and peace.
Eyes Opened
Reply
eyes opened says:
August 31, 2015 at 8:35 am
Greetings,
Just a note to say that I enjoy and am grateful for this website. How comforting to know others are facing the same things and often thinking the same things. My husband and I are active but fading. We remain such due to family as so many of you have done. Very elderly family would be devastated if we did anything very drastic. Our ministry is when we have informal conversations about the Bible. We will not give information to people that cannot be backed up by scriptures. And like so many, our hard earned money goes elsewhere, not to the org. My husband and I remain spiritual people and we seek what the Bible says not men. It’s amazing how viewpoints and thoughts change once you start thinking for yourself. Our eyes are opened and there is such freedom in that. I truly appreciate the respect and consideration shown by writers and guests to this site. Although I’m new to posting I have been a regular reader for quite some time. Full disclosure is great! And that’s one of the draws to this site. No hidden agendas or manipulating. Just a presentation of the facts.
With much appreciation,
Eyes Opened
Reply
Searcher says:
August 31, 2015 at 8:42 am
Lloyd,
Thanks for all you do for this forum and for the activism you do outside of this forum. No need for apologies at all! As most of us have learned by being associated with JW’s and the WTS, an all-absorbing activity can be very unhealthy to anyone. You do need time away from activism for fresh thinking and for your family. I am glad you have made time for other activities too. I had no doubt that you would be back.
Searcher
Reply
Sister drifter UK says:
August 31, 2015 at 9:11 am
Am I missing something or am I the only one trying to work out what will happen next with the Royal Commission?
Is that it?
Is there to be a follow up and recommendations?
Am I being totally stupid?
Will WTBS be asked to comply with their recommendations?
Will there be another hearing?
Reply
EverydayExplorer says:
September 2, 2015 at 7:19 am
Sister Drifter UK, my understanding is that there will be a formal recommendation from the ARC either this month or October.
Love your monikker, by the way!
Reply
MimiLove says:
August 31, 2015 at 11:37 am
Lloyd, I check this site everyday looking for any new information that I can use with my family. Thank you for creating the site and maintaining it and to all the others that contribute. I have no one to talk to either so I love this site!
Reply
Pickled brain says:
August 31, 2015 at 8:51 pm
@Mimi . Lovely comments which we all endorse completely!!
Reply
newcarrion says:
August 31, 2015 at 3:17 pm
Lloyd, it has been over a year, finally found the courage to post comments on a few topics.
Freedom requires truth.
The denial of lifer’s is staggering.
The pain of family denial is also staggering.
Your site gives voice to the voiceless.
THX.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
August 31, 2015 at 9:05 pm
@ new carrion . Keep on commenting , you do it well. Yes ‘FREEDOM REQUIRES TRUTH’
How HONEST are the Watchtower publications about CHILD ABUSE by Elders within the Congregations!! What protection or warning to other parents with children. IF the GOVERNING BODY were following scripture then they Would MAME the GUILTY PERSON & SAY What the TYPE of SIN or CRIME he is GUILTY OF like Apostle PAUL did at 1 Corinthians chapter 5 from Verse 1 -5 about the man who was guilty of SEXUAL RELATIONS with his STEPMOTHER!! But the GB Cherry Pick how they use Scripture when it suits them!! ORGANISATION MANUALS like ‘Shepherd the Flock of God Book & Branch Manuals ‘are more important than SCRIPTURE to the JWs !! Which is going against the advice of Revelation ch. 22 where it says about not Adding to the Word of God which is condemning of Death!!
Reply
Catalina says:
August 31, 2015 at 3:39 pm
I need clarification. I noticed there are a couple of elders who visit this website so I hope I can get clarification. My brother and I had a big argument. His daughter was put on private reproof for loose conduct. The argument is this… My brother says she had intercoarse one time with her lover so it’s considered a weakness, but if she had intercoarse a second time with her lover it’s considered willful conduct and she would get disfellowshipped. My brother says it works the same way with pedofiles. When it’s a one time occurrence it can be considered a weakness and they’re put on private reproof. Is this true? My brother used to be an elder. He says he knows. Is what he says true? We had a BIG argument. He told me I’m an a.hole for not believing it. I told him he’s an even bigger one for believing it (I didn’t cuss) I’m upset. I need clarification. Is it true?
Reply
Wip it says:
August 31, 2015 at 5:23 pm
The difference is child abuse is against the Law, just imagine if a person went to the elders & confessed to murder, i heard of an experience were this happened & the elders told the person they had to go to the police, they did & were convicted, served prison time & still studied the bible.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
August 31, 2015 at 9:32 pm
@ Cedars . Your site & Activism is invaluable considering the limited resources you have to the hundreds of Millions of not Billions of Dollars of Donations, Property, Stocks & Shares. Life Insurances, Wills & Trust Funds etc at Watchtower Disposal ! Lloyd , YOU ARE SAVING WASTED LIVES at the Hands of a Real Estate Publishing Empire by waking people up!!
What WATCHTOWER & Mormon& 7 Day Adventists,Baptists, Pentecostalists,Etc ALL DO is TWIST SCRIPTURES & Use the Bible & Jesus to CONTROL PEOPLE!!
Jesus own words at MARK Chapter 9v.40 Proves ONE ORGANISATION is NOT NEEDED to be APPROVED by Jesus!!
Reply
Pickled brain says:
August 31, 2015 at 9:43 pm
The above scripture quoted should have been Mark ch.9 v.38-40.
Keep up the Good Work & Good Health to all your Family!
Reply
JKL says:
August 31, 2015 at 9:27 pm
Dear eyes opened.
I really enjoyed your encourging comment. But please, could you confirm that WTBS has a Facebook page. I sincerly doubt it, especially that Watchtower has orovided the ARC material.
Thank you.
Reply
eyes opened says:
September 1, 2015 at 6:41 am
Hi JKL,
Thanks for your kind remarks. With respect to the wbts Facebook page, I simply did a search for the “Watchtower Bible and Tract Society” and a page came up. Frankly I was kind of surprised since they have sounded so many warnings about social media. I am not able to confirm who is making posts or maintaining the page. Sorry I can’t be more helpful. However having said that, Facebook has millions of users so the potential for exposure is tremendous. Time will tell.
Best Regards,
Eyes Opened
Reply
JKL says:
August 31, 2015 at 9:29 pm
Sorry. PROVIDED. :-)
Reply
Enuffsenuff says:
August 31, 2015 at 9:31 pm
Sister Drifter, you asked the question of what the Australian Royal Commission is doing now that the JW component is over. The ARC is still very busy as there are other institutions still being examined. In addition as “Grace” a regular contributor to these pages has pointed out in her contact with the ARC, because of the live streaming other affected people have answered the call to tell their story and the backlog of interviews is 10 months long as we speak. There will probably be even more people coming forward. Just from this alone you can see what an onerous task the Commission has due to the callous disregard and sheltering of so many paedophiles by various institutions, especially the religious ones.
So, with regard to what happens next, the Commission intends to return WITHIN (capitals for emphasis) 2 and half years and see what Jw’s along with all the other recalcitrant organisations have done to clean up their processes to eliminate this scourge within their ranks. Along with that, the issue of how to compensate these victims is still being decided. When that comes you will probably see the WT fight the Commission tooth and nail, as they don’t want to pay any money.
I would also suggest that the matter of criminal charges will be considered, although that has not been directly referred to. One problem that I have wondered about is Terry O’Brien for WT attempted to mislead/deceive the Commission over the true circumstances of Geoff Jackson. There is also the matter of culpability for elders especially under the NSW crimes Act for failing to report indictable crimes.
Hope this helps, it is a case of stay tuned you will see results one way or the other. Cheers
Reply
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← Royal Commission’s Angus Stewart accuses Watchtower representative of deliberate deception
Following the “Return to Jehovah” release, is the net closing on inactive ones? →
An apology, and update on what’s in store for JWsurvey
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Posted on August 29, 2015
During a recent trip across Europe I was able to interview a number of exJW activists
During a recent trip across Europe I was able to interview a number of exJW activists
First off, I need to apologize for being so absent from posting articles over the last few weeks! As some of you know, I spent a month in northern Europe between late July and late August initially for the purpose of attending two exJW weddings – one of which I had been asked to officiate at.
Once I realized I would be away from home for such a long time, I decided I might as well make the most of it and do some activism while on the road. I took along my camera and ended up filming no less than 8 interview videos with various exJWs/activists, which I am still in the process of uploading to my YouTube channel. Here is one such video with recently-awoken ministerial servant Daniel Genser in Holland…
I also got involved in observing Watchtower Victims Memorial Day while in Belgium…
During my trip I also had the pleasure of being interviewed about the recent “Texas billboard” initiative on the “Ask An Atheist” podcast, and I was delighted to be involved in this conversation about cults with ex-Scientologist YouTuber Chris Shelton…
As productive as this trip ended up being, the timing could not have been worse as far as developments in the world of Jehovah’s Witnesses are concerned. Why? Because this trip coincided with Australia’s Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Abuse, and its case study of Jehovah’s Witnesses – arguably the most significant development in the sphere of Watchtower and child abuse since the Candace Conti verdict.
The sheer volume of meaningful information brought to light by the commission, and especially the skilled questioning by senior council Angus Stewart, took me completely by surprise. Likely it will take weeks or even months to fully process what came out of the testimony of various elders and Watchtower officials, including governing body member Geoffrey Jackson. In fact, I have no doubt the information gleaned will prove useful in analyzing the organization and its processes for many years to come.
I’m extremely grateful to “CovertFade” and Karen Morgan for keeping the home fires burning with their articles on various parts of the Witness testimony during my absence. I have now set to work on an article and video aimed at delving into the testimony given to the commission by Geoffrey Jackson that will highlight some of the outright deceptions contained therein.
Though I’m disappointed not to have been available to cover the commission evidence while it was in progress, I was at least able to discuss it during this conversation with fellow activists Marc Latham, Louise Goode and Karen Morgan during my trip…
Apart from picking up the pieces with the royal commission, over the coming weeks I will be working on a special project to commemorate “JWsurvey Day” on October 4th – a new event to mark the site’s first launch on October 4th 2011. Along with a number of fellow exJWs and activists I will be releasing a special montage video titled “What you DON’T know about apostates.”
If you are interested in getting involved with the video or some other aspect of JWsurvey Day, please join the JWsurvey Day group on Facebook for more information (PLEASE remember to use a fake account when using Facebook if you are a current or fading Witness). The music to be used in our special montage, slated for release on October 4th, is below…
Over the coming weeks I will be preoccupied with attending to various other business, such as finally getting the results of the 2014 global survey published, and working on my book. I am also currently exploring the viability of a special partnership with a YouTube network aimed at getting the John Cedars channel (and thereby this site) more exposure.
There’s plenty to do, but I love my activism work and I wouldn’t have it any other way. In the meantime, I apologize to everyone for going AWOL over the last few weeks. I will try to make it up to you with some quality articles and videos in the near future!
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← Royal Commission’s Angus Stewart accuses Watchtower representative of deliberate deception
Following the “Return to Jehovah” release, is the net closing on inactive ones? →
91 Responses to An apology, and update on what’s in store for JWsurvey
← Older Comments
honza says:
September 1, 2015 at 2:52 am
Cedars,
You are doing a very good job.
Reply
Ted says:
September 1, 2015 at 6:32 am
@Catalina,
To try and answer your question, “Is a one time occurrence of
paedophilia dealt with by Private Reproof”?
The, “Shepherding the Flock of God” book, page 131 states.
“You should immediately call the branch office for direction
if you learn of an accusation of child abuse. The branch office
will then give direction “Based on the Circumstances involved
In each situation”.
It’s the branch that makes all the decisions in these cases, not
the local elders, and there is no fixed way , no one size fits all
method of handling accusations of paedophilia . Wether it’s one
occurrence or many.
Elders in the past may have had their own ideas and methods
of dealing with such cases. But now it’s such a hot issue
the Org, doesn’t trust them with it. Regardless of the claim
of appointment by Holy Spirit.
Hope this is helpful, Best wishes.
Reply
JKL says:
September 1, 2015 at 8:42 am
Hi again Eyes Opened.
Love your “name” by the way.
Thanks for answering my question. I think there are several Watchtower-like Facebook pages. But none from jw.org itself. And I wonder if that will ever happen. And more important, I think they would like the ARC hearing videos and transcript to simply disappear. But as we all know, that will not happen even though we have to wait for a final result. In the meantime, thoe ones that want to think and question still have access to the information they need. But sure, the ARC material provided by jw.org itself would be fantastic.
Keep up the good comments!
Reply
Gina says:
September 1, 2015 at 1:08 pm
GREAT JOB! GLAD TO HAVE YOU BACK!!
Reply
Ted says:
September 1, 2015 at 5:51 pm
To add to my last comments. The one primary consistent
feature in handling accusations of child abuse is concealment.
This is why elders are ordered to immediately contact the branch,
and when they say “we will decide each case on its merits”.
it’s not the discipline of the of the offender they’re thinking of.
The main concern is, what are the factors that will enable us
to cover this up. For instance, is the accuser willing to leave it
in JHVS hands and are they willing to let the elders deal with it.
So whatever discipline the perpetrator receives, one thing he can
be sure of is. The org, will “Pull out all the stops” to keep his crime
secret. Hence the 1006 unreported JW pedophiles in Australia.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 2, 2015 at 3:18 am
@Ted . Exactly Spot on . The JW Organisation likes to highlight paedophiles & immorality amongst Catholics . BUT OUR JW Organisation is Soooo PURE & CLEAN!! …. WELL Noooo Sir! MR LETTS!!!
1006 KNOWN PAEDOPHILES,Many ELDERS & Ministerial Servants in Australia! So what is the Figures worldwide,probably what the BBC Panorama said over 10 years ago over 24,000 on the Database at Brooklyn & that is only 24,000 perpetrators NOT VICTIMS!!!
Jehovah highlights ALL The SINS of his Servants OPENLY in the Bible like DAVID,SOLOMON,SAUL,PETER,Even LOT who had SEX with his DAUGHTERS!! So why Does The GB HIDE the SINS of the Paedophiles???
Reply
Sparlock says:
September 2, 2015 at 4:30 am
Just want to thank you for your work! JWSurvey has become the first website on its topic. I take a look at it every few days. There’s no place where I can find more information and better support and encouragement.
Reply
Criticus says:
September 2, 2015 at 6:54 am
Hi there,
there is in fact another website that is expounding on this subject ever since right after the GJackon-hearing, but it is a German site: http://www.bruderinfo-aktuell.de. I am aktually working my way through the Jackson-hearing-script, summarizing & analyzing each point and posting my findings in the forum there. Other parts of some portions of the hearing have already been translated into German & posted there. So, they are already on it for a few weeks by now.
What I have also done is this: I downloaded both Jackson-hearing-videos from Youtube with a video grabber-app, along with the transcripts of all eight days, burn them on a DVD, and hand it out to non-suspecting “faithful Witnesses” by saying: “Here is a very interesting testimony of brother Jackson, very fascinating explanations, never heard before, we can learn a lot from them.” That’s no lie –correct? Having the video away from Youtube is good, bec. in this way, the viewers don’t stumble over the avalanche of negative comments attached to the Youtube-clips, which would immediately fry their brains: “OOOOOOH NOOOOO, THIS IS BAAAAD EEEVIL APOSTATE CRAP I AM NOT GOING TO WATCH THIS …”. Tell me about “mind automation”, Pavlov conditioning, the salivating dog … you know what I mean.
Regards,
Criticus
Reply
Ted says:
September 3, 2015 at 8:10 am
My own view on the orgs, future handling of the pedophile problem
is, they will drop the 2 witness rule in these cases. The issue is
costing them so much money, not to mention bad publicity that any
accusation will be accepted, and the accused will be straight out of
the door.
“Apostates” have been saying all along how ridiculous that rule is
and how inappropriate and useless it is in cases of sexual crime.
They will find some way of rationalising their past use of it, they’ve
had plenty of practice at that, by justifying their many former
cock ups. As usual the R&F will swallow it “Hook line and sinker
and will even applaud them for making the correction.
Reply
Meredith J says:
September 3, 2015 at 9:48 pm
As long as we are discussing what Watchtower will do now, I thought I’d put my 2 cents worth in Ted. The Watchtower Corporation is very stubborn I find and I think that they will keep the two witness rule and claim that persecution is trying to stop them from keeping to a bible principle. Well, anyway, that’s what I think but who knows? Whatever they do, no doubt it will be very crafty in order to fool the masses without losing face.
Reply
Kat says:
September 3, 2015 at 8:48 am
the GB will do anything to avoid having to pay out money.
I agree with you Ted.
Reply
Rick says:
September 7, 2015 at 5:33 am
I’m just amazed at the loss of words that governing body member Jackson has here.
It makes you really wonder about what they really know regarding the rules and regulations they interpret. In addition what about the blood issue did that really even have anything to do medically.???? It had to do with eating it. There’s a big difference from taking pleasure in something vs. saving your life with something. See Royal commission questioning him about the two witness rule regarding sexual assault.
Reply
Elizabeth White says:
September 9, 2015 at 1:20 pm
Have watched all your critiques of jw Broadcasting on youtube. Thanks for keeping us informed on what’s going on with the organization. I cannot believe how they justify their actions regarding child abuse cases. Glad you and your family had some time off. Await your return. Have passed on your site to my brothers, also exjws.
Reply
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← An apology, and update on what’s in store for JWsurvey
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership →
Following the “Return to Jehovah” release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
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Posted on September 4, 2015
Tony Morris releases a brochure aimed at bringing back inactive ones, who now appear to be under closer scrutiny
Tony Morris releases a brochure aimed at bringing back inactive ones, who now appear to be under closer scrutiny
A leaked Watchtower letter in Polish addressed to all elders in Poland has asked for details of Witnesses who have become inactive since September 2014.
The letter gives instructions for congregations to send in the “S-10″ form – an annual document that asks elders for basic figures regarding the number of active/inactive/reactivated publishers, the amount of unworked territory, and the number of those who are deaf or blind.
But the leaked letter, dated September 1, 2015, makes an additional request for the particulars of anyone who has ceased to be an active publisher over the last 12 months. It is so far unclear as to whether the same letter has been sent out in other countries or languages.
A translation of the pertinent sentence in the letter reads: “Given the special care we are giving to our inactive ones, we ask your secretary to prepare an additional letter about witnesses who became inactive in the 2015 service year. Please specify their names, surnames, age and a short summary about what you think was the cause for their current situation.”
It goes on to say: “We are confident that the information they choose to divulge will assist you in better caring for the needs of our brothers and sisters throughout the territory. (1 Peter 5:2)”
Especially if similar instructions are issued throughout the world, the letter would seem to indicate that Watchtower is starting to bring inactive ones, and especially their motives, under closer scrutiny.
The “Return to Jehovah” brochure released at this year’s convention series (which the letter seems to allude to) indicates that there is a clear disparity between Watchtower’s notion of why people become inactive, and the reality of the situation.
The brochure suggests that Witnesses become inactive due to “anxiety,” “hurt feelings,” or “guilt.” But the most popular responses for 1,614 inactive/faders who took part in last year’s 2014 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses (the full results of which are soon to be published) indicated reasons involving intellectual honesty.
(Click on the image below to enlarge)
inactive-ones-2014Though there will always be a percentage of inactive ones who remain indoctrinated and blame themselves for being too “spiritually weak,” the reality is that often inactive ones simply grow tired of lending their support to a religion they no longer believe in.
Watchtower must understand this at some level, despite their fanciful treatment of the subject in the “Return to Jehovah” brochure. It is, after all, their shunning policy that makes Jehovah’s Witnesses a “captive organization” (to borrow the words of Angus Stewart at the Australian Royal Commission) from which it is impossible to leave gracefully.
If you are fortunate enough to wake up from your Witness indoctrination and seek to maintain contact with believing family members, turning inactive or “fading” on the understanding that you will not speak out against the organization is the only option available to you.
Perhaps Watchtower is already observing the signs of a mass exodus now that 100 years of “God’s Kingdom” have rolled by with no sign of Armageddon, thus rendering the cherished 1914 teaching increasingly obsolete. Or perhaps this new letter to elders in Poland is simply a genuine attempt at reaching out to “spiritually weak” ones in the wake of the new brochure.
Either way one thing is certain: if Watchtower wants to keep abusing its members through shunning, the mishandling of child abuse, the deadly prohibition on blood and the stigmatization of higher learning, they had better get used to Witnesses finding their way to the exit one way or the other.
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*Thanks to WifiBandit and the exJW Reddit community for bringing my attention to this letter.
To have your say in the 2015 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses, click here!
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104 Responses to Following the “Return to Jehovah” release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
Newer Comments →
Andrea says:
September 4, 2015 at 2:20 am
Still haven’t read the brochure but I received it from a concerned parent. When I heard about the brochure from them by phone, it sent shivers down my spine. I just felt like we’d be having “the conversation”, which I have been avoiding.
Thankfully it just got left at my house and I’ll get around to reading its propaganda when I’ve the stomach for it.
I wish they’d leave us alone, we left for a reason, and have no intention of every going back to that prison…
Reply
John Baptist says:
September 5, 2015 at 7:59 am
I have been out 30 plus years now and its the same old same old when you read anything they publish. I suggest reading Combating Cult mind control. https://freedomofmind.com/Media/bookCombatting.php
This is a excellent read weather your a past present or soon to be member of this destructive cult.
I hear the words of both Ray Franz’s books ringing in my ears as I see the “Truth” of his words unfold in this society’s actions more and more.
I am happy for all who have broken free from the chains of this Cult.
Reply
EverydayExplorer says:
September 5, 2015 at 1:12 pm
I support John Baptist’s comment.
Andrea, you have every right not to read that brochure.
Respect to you.
Reply
JJ says:
September 4, 2015 at 2:48 am
My father told me that when they released this brochure, or when they made the comment at the Regional Convention that they would like all of these inactive ones to come back, he thought to himself, “They are never coming back!”
I’m sure there are many others sitting through these meetings thinking to themselves that it is a ‘pipe dream’ to ever get the old JWs back! We hate it! What would go back to?!? You can’t make yourself believe this crap again and why would you want to???
I’m just so happy that my family has come back to me and that my wife has really softened her stance that was so pro-JW! The last thing I need is to get involved in that cult that tried to split up my family! I am slowly trying to pry them away, gently but persistently.
Reply
Malachi says:
September 4, 2015 at 3:01 am
I don’t know. It seems a bit speculative but if you think back on what has happened over the last year it would seem that there is a good possibility that they have seen a big uptick in the number of people going inactive. If that is the case it will be interesting to see how it is handled given the heavy-handed way that they have historically dealt with problems. I guess they will decide what to do depending on the number they get back, if it is big they might consider releasing some new light which would be a laughable response, if it is small they try to squash the dissent. It’s a no win situation for them either way.
Reply
Malachi says:
September 4, 2015 at 3:30 am
It would be interesting to know if this letter was unique to Poland, in which case it might be relevant to something that happened there or if it was something that was sent out universally. This past year has been a publicity nightmare for the WTS. If you happen to come across that please let us know. Thanks for your good work Lloyd!
Reply
Little Polish Atheist says:
September 4, 2015 at 7:01 am
Poland had 1,756 congregations in 2000. The number dropped to 1,350 in 2014. This means 406 congregations dissolved in 15 years. Average every year 27 congregations less and less. Question for JWs: How is Isaiah 2:3 being fulfilled in Poland for last 15 years?
Reply
Sheree Stokell says:
September 5, 2015 at 3:31 pm
I think the same is happening in Japan. I know that here in Australia the jw growth hasn’t even kept up with our population growth the whole time I’ve been in and out of jws, which is 20 years now. The census data for my city of 500 thousand people shows that in 5 years, there was an increase of only 96 jws. Considering heaps are moving to my city and the jw kids are getting baptised, that means more are leaving than joining, in my city
Reply
Idontknowhatodo says:
September 4, 2015 at 3:20 am
They are trying to cover all exits and draw the prison bonds even tighter….why do they want people who dont believe and who dont financially contribute to stay in this organization?… why do they want to make our existence even more miserable by containing us in a prison of fear when they must know we hate them?…. I cannot understand thier mentality….Geoffrey Jackson said plainly at the ARC…’no we dont believe we are the only channel God is using’…. so why dont they just leave us non believers alone.
Reply
Meredith J says:
September 4, 2015 at 2:25 pm
Because the GB are so brainwashed by their own self importance that they could not possibly conceive that the exodus is because people hate the Watchtower so much. Average brainwashed Witnesses just cannot conceive that kind of thinking either. They think what they have is so good, why would anyone want to throw it away unless they were just spiritually weak? If only they knew the real truth. I have found that most Witnesses don’t want to know the real reasons. I’m saying this from my own memory of being in that hypnotic state. They shirk to hear anything ‘negative’.
When we left we ran for our lives like we were climbing over the Berlin Wall. Why would we want to climb back over the top again and return to that pack of wild dogs?
Reply
ruthlee says:
September 4, 2015 at 3:39 am
hi folks ive read the wt and awake for 35 years cover to cover since my baptism i decided a couple of months ago to just read the bible but this brochure return blah blah was the last thing i read and it has become my natural conclusion to a long drawn out loveless affair now im just a plain ol Bible reader and so happy. why oh why would they want us back, we are not and have never been loved i dont even feel im in the wilderness just waiting for my family to carry out their exit plan .how long if ever that will be i do not know but i tell you one thing all my doubts and dissappointments and failed hopes, the one thing i am sure of is this, the org do not have the truth. i am fraudulent at this moment in time, but i have divorced this organization in my head and heart i just need a little time to sign the get out clause i dont even find these people attractive anymore its is a facade so brochure or not how can a liberated soul go back to mental chains and false doctrine i would rather be one tiny voice in the wilderness saying all this is wrong and a lie than and blow out like a candle than spend eternity in a void that is supposed to be paradise and eternal with these melancholy holy terrors. This site is snowballing now as we all awaken isnt it great so thanks but no thanks my head and heart are not with the JWs anymore ruth lee
Reply
Melody Rhodes says:
September 4, 2015 at 4:03 am
It may be dawning on them that their methods of control are no longer working. The playing field has changed and the Internet is a far bigger force than the Governing Body. Tactics that worked in the past to scare and silence people are no longer as effective.
It will be interesting to see what they come up with to protect their bottom line. They could mainstream, which they seem to be moving towards. Who knows? One day it might dawn on them that around the world there are many churches that aren’t as controlling and that manage to their retain their members.
When you have flawed theology, the only way you can perpetrate it is to keep your members ignorant and psychologically separated from the world, and try to prevent them from accessing outside sources of information. The World Wide Web is closing that gap.
Reply
Garrett says:
September 4, 2015 at 4:33 am
I personally find it creepy they want our names. If you are just looking for stats and reasons people left you don’t need names anymore than Lloyd would need names of individuals for his survey. I wonder if a game called “Witch Hunt” is starting.
Reply
Idontknowhatodo says:
September 4, 2015 at 4:45 am
I think your right…they love the power over peoples lives…and the rule through fear…the likeness between the Nazis and them is frightening…now they are keeping records of names…Im not sure if they could do it here In GB.data protection etc…does anyone know?
Reply
JBob says:
September 4, 2015 at 8:10 am
I think Garrett is hitting on a great point; to the administrative types, the curse of no-growth means J* is “frowning on them” and its time to purge the unrighteousness from their midst, again. The dramatic fall in growth after the Great Disappointment of 1975 resulted in the “Witch Hunt of the 80’s” which cast out Ray Franz and hordes of other adherents to Watchtower who had discovered the joys of reading God’s Word daily.
1 Kings 18:21 – a long abused stereotype. How long will you hesitate between two opinions? If the LORD is God, follow Him; but if Baal, follow him, blah, blah, blah. The Baal vs. the LORD prototype, etc will be used to bring down fire from heaven, as it were.
Even the administrative types don’t realize where they get this compulsion to make themselves separate and “the only truth” which stems from a long series of trailblazers in adventist beliefs. “Get out of her my people” a rallying cry used by adventist of 7th and First varieties since Charles Fitch’s 1843 sermon on Babylon. And, picked up on by Rutherford to instigate growth during World War II confrontational Bible Student court cases over the flag, blood use, vaccinations and other issues.
This period was where Witnesses behaved like the folks following David Koresh or Warren Jeffs–rather die than compromise, and every government encroachment was a sign of the end-time. Anyone still think this “charming” bunch isn’t a controlling and all-consuming? Some of this behavior is echoed in the continual bizarre statements from “Tight-pants” because some Witnesses are doggedly determined to return to this strong conservative and confrontational mode of believing.
Reply
peggy says:
September 4, 2015 at 8:16 am
This asking for names is very suspicious. Several years ago I moved to a new cong. The secretary asked to see my drivers licence. I asked why he needed to see it. Reply, for our records. My word was not good enough for identification. They keep records, and I often thought it was illegal.
The idea of a witch hunt sounds about right. They will probably be arriving to my home soon. Asking why I faded away.
Reply
al etheredge says:
September 4, 2015 at 10:20 am
Not to worry. As former witnesses, we’ve seen many methods to avoid a doorstep conversation.
Reply
RobertPerez says:
September 4, 2015 at 11:01 am
Please record it, I assure you they’ll be recording you.
Reply
kenny says:
September 4, 2015 at 1:22 pm
Well said. Especially the last paragraph.
Reply
Iown Mylife says:
September 4, 2015 at 5:11 am
The witchhunt is not new. The elders constantly demand that any knowledge of “serious” wrongdoing be reported. They want to gather info on everyone and turn the members into spies, to feed their FBI-style databases, I have no doubt. This additional reporting will probably assist them in purging pawns whose hypnosis is wearing off.
Reply
pearlsB4swine says:
September 4, 2015 at 5:20 am
They have never cared two hoots for the inactive so why now?
I take nothing they say on face value anymore. Geoffrey Jackson stated at his appearance at the Australian Royal Commission that they “don’t run a spy network…” to check up on people. So why the need for a list of names and details on inactive ones?
Reply
Sarah Shetler says:
September 4, 2015 at 5:25 am
They want names and the suspected reasons why these ones are inactive. Yes, sounds like a witch hunt. They are very aware of apostates and are looking for those ones among the congregation. Either they will leave them alone (unlikely) or they will do a full-on search for them to determine who they can nail for apostasy (if that is what they suspect). It will be interesting to see where this will go, and if it will be a worldwide effort. Thanks for the heads-up, as always, Lloyd!
Reply
peggy says:
September 4, 2015 at 8:22 am
I agree with you Sarah, as I suspect they will try to scare everyone into staying. They may pick out some inactive ones and judge them apostates. Instruct everyone to avoid them and never speak to them again. This really could back fire. Some JW’s are not going to just stop talking to faded family members because their status with the borg has changed.
Reply
Shane green says:
September 4, 2015 at 5:45 am
Great article…..they must realise while they themselves are trolling the apostate websites just how many are ‘getting away’ with fading….I feel certain it’s a clamp down. The thumb screws are going on
Reply
Rowland Nelken says:
September 4, 2015 at 5:58 am
Another very encouraging sign of desperation. None of the bosses’ remedies will work. If you dunk them young, they will leave soon enough. JWs already are record breakers in the leaving the parental religion stakes.
Warnings about avoiding apostate websites clearly do not work. There are even active and believing JWs who contribute to this site.
Shunning can be avoided via fading, so here, in this Polish, and maybe global brochure, is a doomed attempt to staunch that flow.
This can only be good news.
Reply
John Baptist says:
September 6, 2015 at 5:11 am
They probably came up with some new light in their diluted minds and said hey let’s do a test case in Poland. Lol. They are absolutely completely delusional in every sense of the word.
Reply
MimiLove says:
September 4, 2015 at 6:25 am
I will probably be in the back room soon. After listening to Lloyd’s 10 tips I already broke a few of them and it is costing me. I spoke to my closest friend about the child abuse issue and she repeated Lett’s words “apostate lies”. My family wouldn’t listen to the any of the hearing saying worldly people are attaching Jehovah’s people. So now my friend hardly speaks to me and my family is on edge. I have been inactive for 6 months now and the elders have been attentive….so far only small talk but I can feel the anxiety. I’m sure this letter if legal in the US will surface soon and I’m also sure that the motive behind it isn’t love. The inactive ones also kept their money in their pockets and they desperately need our donations. So now thanks to Lloyd’s ten tips and graphical survey I am preparing mentally what my comments will be when I receive my “shepherding visit”
Reply
RobertPerez says:
September 4, 2015 at 11:12 am
Good on you, remember to record your shepherding visit. Every amicable question will be designed for you to drop your guard and relax. Do not lie to them, but follow the example of the gb and omit anything that is non of their business. Change the subject as often as possible. Set an alarm on your phone to go off after a fixed time, thank them for their consern (interrogation) and say your good byes. Remember the collective experiences on here, it is definitely a witch hunt, not a shepherding visit. Anything and everything you say will be misconstrued and used against you under prayer by these false shepherds.
Reply
Meredith J says:
September 4, 2015 at 3:08 pm
But when you see the brainwashing, doesn’t that make you realise how fortunate you are that you woke up? If they come by MimiLove, you can either not answer the door. This is a very common response from non Witnesses. Or just tell them you don’t want to talk to them right now or you can go into the full reason for leaving but that could land you in some trouble.
It’s up to you but I just act like the way I used to see people act when they weren’t interested. Believe me, Witnesses don’t want to hang around inactive people for too long. Germs might be catching. I just avoid them when they come knocking and make it clear if I talk to them that I am not interested in anything they have to say. They know full well who I am.
If it was an elder trying to round me up then I guess I would just stand my ground and tell him the bitter truth. That has not happened yet in all the years I have been out but granted there may be a first time.
Reply
sirius says:
September 4, 2015 at 7:02 am
@Lloyd
Thank you for the research data. I look forward to plugin-in some other values from the survey*. It all this brings fond memories of my days(being sarcastic) in manufacturing & some market research days applying statistical thinking while removing emotional knee-jerk reactions. BTW, there are predictive models that stretch into the foreseeable future, like weather predictions. Unfortunately, there are still way too many unknowns (versus knowns) that cannot be incorporated into the models yet.
* https://www.checkmarket.com/market-research-resources/sample-size-calculator/
I do agree with the other posters that personal information of the Respondents has no bearing on the random data collection, unless its the weak argument of establishing verification.
IMHO
dogstar
Reply
Renae says:
September 4, 2015 at 7:38 am
The problem with the elders filling out a questionaire about why someone has left is they will most likely just repeat the sentiments of Watchtower, and say it’s because they want the world, or don’t want to humble themselves enough to be obedient. I took the slow and respectful road out so as not to lose my daughter. I’m still shunned, and despite my consistent explanation that I cannot come back until I get answers to legitimate questions, my daughter believes that I’ve fallen under the control of the devil. She came to this conclusion for no other reason than I don’t believe as she does. I think my experience is unfortunately a common one. If Watchtower really wants to know, why don’t they go to the ones who have left and ask? We’d be happy to tell them. :)
Reply
RobertPerez says:
September 4, 2015 at 11:15 am
Crisis of Consience- They know very well why you left.
Reply
Shunned for Life says:
September 4, 2015 at 7:40 am
When I was fading, someone told me that the elders would pay a visit and ask if I still believed the Organization was spirit-directed. I was warned that if I answered in the negative, I could face disfellowshipping. I was skeptical.
Sure enough, during their visit, they asked me that very question. I answered (in all honesty) that I believed the Organization was spirit-directed (I didn’t reveal that I thought by a demonic spirit). Their faces relaxed and they smiled, and all was well, for the time being.
I tried to discreetly fade but still was shunned by my family, still in. No leaving this organization without being punished. So much for their claim to “champion” religious freedom.
Reply
KateWild says:
September 4, 2015 at 7:43 am
Thanks Cedars for this article, I would like to advocate for the JWs stuck in WT who truly care. I feel there are many Elders and othe JWs who want their loved ones to survive Armageddon. My loved ones have remained in touch with me now and again to encourage me to return in spite of the fact I am Df’d.
These individuals truly love me and care about me and they are unconditional friends as they still contact me against WT rules.
Sadly these JWs are emotionally blackmailing us without realising it. So this brochure is doing emotional harm to those that have woken up and those that care about their loved ones who have left.
The GB are not beyond reproach in producing this brochure. They are being manipulative by controlling JWs emotions and using their vulnerabilities to increase their membership.
I find this destructive, dangerous and abusive.
Kate (Sam)
Reply
sirius says:
September 4, 2015 at 7:48 am
Of course the GB/WT not to be outdone, the Catholics have had an outreach program to bring back their own for sometime. From catholicscomehome.org
Welcome Home
Faith should touch every corner of our lives. We know it can be intimidating to walk through those doors, but we’ve been expecting you. Welcome home.
Interesting the similarities on both sites … and copycat?
IMHO
dogstar
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JBob says:
September 4, 2015 at 8:22 am
Not just JW’s and Catholics, all corners of the Christian empire are grasping at desperate measures to attract former believers or turned-off once-believers; including berating themselves for over-reaching and attempting to make their core beliefs the law for non-Christians or judging those who never professed Christian beliefs. And, with migration of more Islam and other world religions into the once Christian-dominated civilizations, just a general panic.
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sirius says:
September 4, 2015 at 9:19 am
>>>And, with migration of more Islam and other world religions into the once Christian-dominated civilizations, just a general panic
An attractant to islam is that former sins are whipped clean, a reset! Prisons are a good source for converts to islam. Also, the hard pressed belief by islamist(believers) that it’s the only “true religion” and they are willing to enforce it! (fatwas on the apostate – to – honor killings such as adultery). Prayer requirements of 5x aday in the direction of the Kaaba plus non assimilation (sharia laws) in non-islamic society. Jesus or as muslims like to push Issa per their koran is only a mere prophet and their allah has no partners, meaning God has no SON or angel!
To the lost or ignorant this looks like a higher/harder bar above all others faiths!
IMHO
dogstar
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RobertPerez says:
September 4, 2015 at 11:47 am
Irrelevant to site and topic
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John Baptist says:
September 6, 2015 at 5:23 am
He’s got nothing better to do. He needs some deprograming after his escape. He will get it in time.
jacksrabbit says:
September 4, 2015 at 8:18 am
After watching Geoffrey Jackson’s testimony in Australia, it dawned on me that I was being counted among the ’20 million associated’ with the WTBS that he referred. My wife and I promptly sent letters of disassociation. We left many years prior, but I never saw the need to make it formal, even though we have no family involved.
They are basically bragging about 20 mil who have left the org.! I’d like to see that number drop dramatically.
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Damon says:
September 5, 2015 at 2:19 am
I believe he is also alluding to people who they have met on the doors. Who go to the memorial but who don’t go to meetings and may have started studying. Someone who is not committed but who might be interested.
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John Baptist says:
September 6, 2015 at 5:26 am
Corporations fluff numbers all the time. Angus Stewart shut them down on their fluffing with his sharp eye for sure.
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Searcher says:
September 4, 2015 at 9:16 am
I feel for all of you responding here. I am sad that all of you have to bear the brunt of these evil and now lying (i.e. Mr. Potato Head Jackson’s testimony) control freaks. They ARE on a witch hunt now. Why would the leaders ask for names instead of data from the elders of each congregation. Why would they publish such a ‘loving’ publication to bring all the faders back to sheep-like fold. Big data is a two-way street. The internet and education is the WTS biggest enemy, but they can employ big data to twist the screws on you too.
My best advice is to BE PREPARED! Be prepared for family and friends shunning, back-stabbing, the little-old-lady elder wives spreading rumors, tattle-tails, etc., etc., etc…. It will HURT and bad!!! We have a saying in America, “Freedom isn’t free!” You may have to make a tough choice for your own conscience and dignity. Be brave people! My love and thoughts are with you all.
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RobertPerez says:
September 4, 2015 at 11:22 am
At least in my neck of the woods many, many rank and file faithful watchtower pushers are beginning to see shunning for what it is. The harder watchtower pushes this practice the less members can stomach it.
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anonymous says:
September 4, 2015 at 9:22 am
It is interesting that the letter didn’t simply tell the elders to go and ask those people who faded, why they faded. It has to be because they don’t want those secretaries to go and ask because those people will tell those elders the real truth behind the truth and then those elder’s eyes might be opened too. So, it is obvious that “faders” are to be shunned and not helped back into the “fold” unlike the lost sheep Jesus said they were supposed to go after.
It is so cowardly of the Society to have the secretaries “guess” why those people stopped attending meetings. If the elders were doing the job that the Society says they are supposed to be doing, they’d be out there looking for that one lost sheep out of the one hundred that got lost.
If they weren’t trying to find that lost sheep and and trying to bring them back into the “fold” then they weren’t doing their job. If those elders did go to those lost “sheep” and the fader told them how they really feel about the “truth” about the “truth” and it wasn’t pretty, then the elders are in the position of telling the Society the real reason why that person faded and it could be that then the Society will tell the elders that those people have turned apostate and they should be giving talks “marking” those people who have faded.
My husband said that he thinks they may have done that about me now but since he misses so many meetings, he isn’t sure about it. My husband said though that if those elders are following orders correctly, that “marking” just means that you wouldn’t associate with them socially but I definitely get the feeling that I am being shunned for fading. But then when the elders did show up here to talk to me, they asked me if I thought that Jehovah was directing the Organization and I said no. I even told them that I thought that the Governing Body should be put in prison. So, even though they haven’t disfellowshipped me and I haven’t disassociated myself, they have their ways of getting me shunned anyway.
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RobertPerez says:
September 4, 2015 at 11:25 am
The overseer will have gathered all ms and elders and instructed them and their families to keep clear of you. They in turn will have spread the word on your pariah status, per design.
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Searcher says:
September 4, 2015 at 9:25 am
Has anyone noticed just how Big Brother-like this is? How absolutely suspicious and scheming that Tight-Pants Tony looks when holding the brochure in the picture above? Taking names? This is very similar to the “Ministry Of Love” looking to find your misdirected allegiances. George Orwell described this type of society to a tee. If these goons are going to run ‘Paradise Earth’ from above, then I don’t want to be a part of that ‘Paradise’.
This is very disturbing to me.
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Pickled brain says:
September 4, 2015 at 9:47 am
@Searcher . I Agree TOTALLY with your comments that this REALLY Is SO CREEPY & ORWELLIAN in its Nature!! I studied Animal Farm & 1984 by George Orwell for English Literature at School before I became a JEHOVAHs Witness as an Adult. The Similarities are FRIGHTENING!!
When an ORGANISATION tells Families to SHUN Each Other because one Might have GENUINE QUESTIONS about say the ‘ Generation’ or 1914 or F&D Slave then IT IS A CULT because at 1 John 4v1,2 it says test every ‘ INSPIRED STATEMENT ‘ & Even more so if it isn’t inspired!!
So Why are the 7 MEN of the GB SCARED of QUESTIONS????
I TRUST JESUS Not 7 Men in Brooklyn who CHOP & CHANGE INTERPRETATIONS every Few Years !!!!
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Searcher says:
September 4, 2015 at 1:05 pm
Not to mention actually changing, redefining obscure words (such as ‘pornea’), or deleting the scriptures as they need to fit their crazy-headed philosophies and prophetic statements.
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rob says:
September 4, 2015 at 9:50 am
In my opinion asking the elders to provide the reason for the individual becoming inactive is extremely subjective and could be or will be self serving for the organization. I would not for one second believe that they would ever put the real reason why many leave – which is that the individual has found out that this religion is not directed by God and has many many flaws.
Instead, they will probably say that the individual left because they were spiritually weak or would not take direction or were depressed or some other reason that puts the entire blame on the individual.
The society will look at the results and foolishly believe that they are doing nothing wrong and will tell the rank and file that based upon our surveys most people who leave, are not truly spiritual people and need help.
I left the witness religion. I am a spiritual person. I like reading the Bible. Problem is that the witness religion does not want to acknowledge the real reasons why people leave. They want to continue to live in a utopian world of make believe and solid control.
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Searcher says:
September 4, 2015 at 1:28 pm
Unfortunately, deluded people believe what they want to believe instead of facing he facts. The facts are people are no longer buying their scam. The leadership is alarmed and angry. They want to root out the disease that is infecting their empire.
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John Baptist says:
September 6, 2015 at 5:54 am
When my Dad passed away(a faded elder) 6 years ago his request before he died was no service and cremation. Well he got the latter honored but my brother in law talked my mom into a manuscripted funeral talk which due to her extreme emotional and mental condition at the time and conceded to a talk. Well what ensued was unbelievable! These programed suit and tie folks showed up on behalf of my brother a then Elder who didn’t even talk to both my parents before his death to put on the funeral show for their own recruitment opportunities.
I being my fathers namesake son as well as my son the III were completely blind sighted by it all. During the talk my brother in law stated the reason my father faded was because he was depressed. WTF are you kidding me! Just 2 months prior my Dad was telling me just how happy he was that he was without that destructive religion. Well I can tell you after he was done giving his talk my son imediately went up there and spoke about his grandpa and destroyed that theory and other statements in a heartbeat. It just so happens my son has a Masters Degree and is a Psychologist. That audience of programed believers had no clue what hit them. His first words out of my sons mouth was after introducing himself was “My Grandfather was by no means DEPRESSED” what was said after that was priceless!!
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Ted says:
September 4, 2015 at 11:42 am
JW.org is a marketing company, the product is religion,
the request for personal details is purely, Market Research
to determine why the brand is losing its appeal.
Which age groups have been mostly turned off and why,
what change of direction they need to make and who to
target.
Concern and care for inactive brothers is “Sounding Brass
and Tinkling Cymbals”. Like all commercial enterprises
they’ll do what they need to do to survive, regardless of the
effect on people. This was evidenced in the closure of
19 branches when staff were no longer required, and were
sent on their way with instructions to go pioneer.
Brothers in Poland and elsewhere are waking up and seeing
the true face of JW.org.
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Sofia Medrano says:
September 5, 2015 at 7:13 pm
Exactly.
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RobertPerez says:
September 4, 2015 at 11:53 am
At the end of the day it all comes down to non pereformance within the company. What are we expecting if claiming to be members, but not meeting any quotas on moving the product. Your love for God, his son or his word are all irrelevant. Start moving merchandise, get out into service more often whether your really qualified to teach or not and blessings in promotions and privileges will come down on you, per the Shepperding the flock (business manual) book.
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Rose Graziano says:
September 4, 2015 at 12:24 pm
This is very bad news because I have not reported field service time for two months now. I guess I have to start lying to remain under the radar. I hate to lie but now I have no choice. I guess I am going to have to consider this “spiritual warfare”. If the organization can lie to protect itself then I guess I am forced to protect myself from the damage they can do to me and my family if they change their policy on inactive faders.
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RobertPerez says:
September 4, 2015 at 1:12 pm
Do like the pioneers do, report, say five hours and just make it up next month. It’s the old pioneer method.
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Damon says:
September 5, 2015 at 2:36 am
For the last six months I liked on my report. I showed up on Sunday for 30 mins of service then counted two hours. It keeps them off your back whilst you mentally prepare.
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John Baptist says:
September 6, 2015 at 6:05 am
Hey you only need 15 minutes to qualify a month now vs 1 hour. Just talk about the bible to someone for 15 minutes or break it up in 5 min. Increments. It still qualify’s for preaching. Just talk about the bible alone and nothing else and presto your still counted. Lol After all your playing by their rules anyway.
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AF says:
September 4, 2015 at 12:41 pm
Matthew 19:29 says, “And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.”
I don’t know if you all are Christians or not, but if you are, I believe the above scripture explains what needs to be done for the sake of Christ/to inherit eternal life. It’s hard to leave loved ones behind (as you all are well aware), however, this is what needs to be done. The most powerful tool we have is “prayer.” Let’s pray that the Holy Spirit will direct our loved ones from this demonic cult and its tactics. Trust God to do it. I just needed to share this with you. I have fam members who are in this WATCHTOWER prison.
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Pickled brain says:
September 4, 2015 at 2:41 pm
@AF . As always please READ the CONTEXT. Math. 19v27-29 . Peter said to Christ ‘ we have left all things to follow you’ & then Jesus said in v.29 anyone who leaves fathers & mothers will receive 100 fold in the Recreation in heaven.
Now In CONTEXT Peter did not Literally CUT OFF FAMILY to follow Christ ,He had a mother in law so he was Married . He just Put Christ first in his life ,but PETER DID NOT CUT OFF FAMILY RELATIONSHIPs or STOP TALKING to them or SHUN THEM !!!
The 7 Men of the Governing Body Mis -Apply & Lift one Scripture & TWIST IT . The GB ARE UNKIND & CRUEL in Encouraging SHUNNING of Family!!!
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Pickled brain says:
September 4, 2015 at 2:41 pm
@AF . As always please READ the CONTEXT. Math. 19v27-29 . Peter said to Christ ‘ we have left all things to follow you’ & then Jesus said in v.29 anyone who leaves fathers & mothers will receive 100 fold in the Recreation in heaven.
Now In CONTEXT Peter did not Literally CUT OFF FAMILY to follow Christ ,He had a mother in law so he was Married . He just Put Christ first in his life ,but PETER DID NOT CUT OFF FAMILY RELATIONSHIPs or STOP TALKING to them or SHUN THEM !!!
The 7 Men of the Governing Body Mis -Apply & Lift one Scripture & TWIST IT . The GB ARE UNKIND & CRUEL in Encouraging SHUNNING of Family!!!
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Meredith J says:
September 4, 2015 at 9:45 pm
Jesus does not forsake his words. I can attest to that from my own personal experience which I won’t go into just now but the words in Matthew 19 I have found to be absolutely true. Jesus is the one to listen to right now and his words are so precious and appealing to the Christian ear. As our world changes, his words don’t. How dare the Watchtower have called us JW’s when we were trying to be Christians?
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RobertPerez says:
September 4, 2015 at 1:24 pm
Lloyd- Is there anyway that we can find out what the specific jobs of the GB children are and wether we’re looking at major uncomming nepotism within the GB in the near future? Would really love to know how many of them live off of the world wide contribution. Locally we just had a completely autistic and incoherent young man named ms( his dads one of the elders). Nothing against people with disabilities, but in 40 years I’ve never seen the like. Meanwhile spiritually strong youths are placed on questionable list for attending university. I keep my mouth shut and remember that technically I did promise God I’d be his witness to all these things.
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ruthlee says:
September 4, 2015 at 3:42 pm
hi i want to reply to robert perez i agree with your last point about promising God that you would be his witness to all these things i think that is exactly what we are doing on this site all of us have something to say and want the truth out this is testimony to what is going on and how we are being affected. this rotten org has the audacity to say we are not God fearing or love scripture or even Christian. yes i know some choose not to follow anymore thats ok but some of us have shed many tears and its not lightly that we voice our thoughts but when those floodgates open there is no stopping us. so too right i am proud to say i will be a witness to God about all the rot and nastiness ive seen in my life and all the more so as we gain confidence and vigor., as for fading if they do go after these ones, well usually faders are gentle souls who dont need a beating they need nurture and friendship and love if the ones are shunned then this org is not only corrupt over money and sexual sin but out and out wicked who would return to such a lurking place ….. fill in gap. oops sorry the rant has gone on my pants must be to tight! ruthlee
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John Baptist says:
September 6, 2015 at 6:18 am
I work with Autistic adults everyday and while everyone is different and most are of high intelligence beyond our realm that situation of someone becoming a MS may not play out so well for the individual as well to those he may be ministering. Believe me I clearly know what I am talking about in this regard. If anything I feel sorry for this individual as his father for his own reasons may have pushed him into it. And those reasons MAY be entirely self serving.
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Searcher says:
September 4, 2015 at 1:35 pm
I would love to say to the WTS leadership and GB: You cannot fight with lies and threats anymore! People are finding out your lies and deceptions now. The internet and education are your worst enemy! When what you call “Truth” is found to be a pack of lies and false prophecy, when your ugly history is truly reviewed, then it’s very hard to reclaim any real credibility to a thinking person. Good luck trying to stuff that internet genie back in the bottle.
Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin!!! Too late, too late!!!
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John Chapman says:
September 4, 2015 at 2:44 pm
[silly off-topic conspiracy theorist comment removed]
John Chapman – any more such comments and you will be blocked. Final warning.
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Garrett says:
September 4, 2015 at 6:26 pm
Damn it Chapman! I warned you!
Popcorn?
Peanuts ?
Beer here…!
Cold beer!
(Doesn’t it some how seem fitting that we should have a 7th inning stretch here? I always wanted to wear candy stripes and sell consessions at the Minnesota Twins Game)
Ok… It’s the top of the 8th…
Play Ball!
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Kat says:
September 4, 2015 at 10:54 pm
I think they realise that those inactive are mostly faders and just want to keep their family ties going by not being DF for not believing, I think they are in fear of the inactive faders and what they know, and my bad feeling about this is they may want to ask question such as ” do you still believe this is Gods org and that the FDS are God channel”
Any no would be put down as DA or DF and that breaks the family ties, no talking to them anymore.
I just don’t trust this, as I think so many are becoming inactive faders and the GB deep down know its not a guilt but they have lost all faith in the org and the GB, they just may want to get rid of them.
I don’t trust this a being a loving thing at all, though the R/F will see it as the GB being loving in trying to bring back the lost sheep.
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al etheredge says:
September 5, 2015 at 8:32 pm
You may be right to be apprehensive. The organization is built on control of information, and active members are allowed to speak with inactive ones. The GB may well want to conduct another purge like the early 1980s. Formally disfellowshipping inactive members would at least serve to limit communication with active witnesses.
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Reader says:
September 6, 2015 at 3:41 pm
……., and my bad feeling about this is they may want to ask question such as ” do you still believe this is Gods org and that the FDS are God channel”
Regardless of your personal view why answer? Consider Matthew 24 v 23,25 & 26 if you act in accord with it, you will not answer that question or endorse that thought either way.
Its often on the same page as FDS v45. So many dont’ check context nowadays!
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Kat says:
September 4, 2015 at 11:03 pm
PS, Poland may have more problem than other countries, however the brochure is for all congregations, so elders will be encouraged to seek out all inactive/or faders, as brought out in the ARC forget which elder may have been O’Brian that said we they can just fade that wont break the family ties, something to that effect, when questioned.
They would hate faders I am sure they would rather get rid of them completely as they are not contributing, and the GB cannot be 100% sure why and realise that the internet has played a huge part in many at the very least becoming doubtful.
They don’t want the faders or inactive ones giving any information to family relatives that could start doubts and research.
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John Baptist says:
September 6, 2015 at 6:25 am
Bravo it’s the exact reason why any Cult would as they mandate no outside reading or ideas. Cult 101
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eyes opened says:
September 5, 2015 at 7:48 am
Friends,
Many of you have commented on visits from elders so for any sisters out there if the elders wish to speak to you, it should only be with your husband present if you have one. (And if you want it that way) It doesn’t matter if he is a witness or not. The elders should not be allowed to usurp the headship of your husband and thus they would be disregarding a scriptural arrangement. They won’t like it but that’s how it is. You don’t need to feel intimidated or let yourself be bullied. I hope this helps avoid another form of abuse.
Best Regards
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just asking says:
September 5, 2015 at 8:04 am
Well I know that our good organization is not really honest and actually never follows its own publications (bible teach says on the subject of bible that “its writers were honest even to write about their mistakes) say for example when they change doctrine why do they shift the blame to the spirit to have given then some out of date light only to later give them new truth (which actually woke me). But why does it still want to prison everyone? what do they stand to gain or benefit?
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Barb Moor says:
September 5, 2015 at 4:51 pm
“short summary about what you think was the cause for their current situation.”
As if they’d know! Likely they don’t know their flocks at all, and assume inactivity is based on trivial matters (“Oh, they didn’t like how they weren’t always called on at the WT study”) when the real issues are never discerned because they never gave a damn in the first place. I expect their responses to the survey to range from “they didn’t like the instructions on modest clothing” to “they were independent minded” or “materialistic” or “too close to the world”. Because these men don’t know the reality.
“I don’t attend because the known pedophile likes to sit behind me and breathe down my neck”, or “my WT conductor ripped me off in a business arrangement and told me I’d never be able to prove it”, or “I have issues with doctrine and the lies we are told”. Or ultimately, “I feel I’ve wasted my life with this cult and it’s mind-control and attention hungry overseers”.
No one has ever asked why I became inactive, but the rumors have been delightedly random and of course, wrong.
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Pickled brain says:
September 5, 2015 at 7:44 pm
@Barb moor . I REALLY LIKE ALL YOUR POINTS you make about the REAL REASONS WHY People start to fade ! EXCELLENT REASONINGS!!
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Thinking of leaving says:
September 5, 2015 at 6:07 pm
As much as I would like to see this terrible organisation dissapear I do think this is a step in the right direction. I always found it puzzling how an organisation would spend billions of dollars and countless man hours seeking a new member and yet do virtually nothing to stop (or find out why) members were walking out the back door. Not that I am complaining but from my own situation I was in the org for just under 4 decades and although I never openly gave my reasons for leaving, I never had one follow up call from the elders, and only 3 members from the cong could be bothered to come around and see how I was (mind you they were on FS at the time so go figure). Thankfully my case is not an isolated one.
If little polish atheist figures are correct the org in Poland has been loosing just over 1 congregation every 14 days for the last 15 years so it’s no wonder they are trying to figure out what is going on, and it would be interesting to see if those been disfellowship was in line with the congregations been dissolved. I’m guessing that they wouldn’t which would suggest that people are just opting to say nothing and fade. I have generally found as a good gauge of how happy the members of Wt are is to take a look at the activity on apostate sights. I was stunned the other day when listening to a pod cast from the man from JwFacts when he said he got a million unique visits to his web site a year. So you could say that out of every 8 publishers, 1 publisher could of just visited JWFacts alone.
I’m also just wondering when they do get the reports back of inactive ones just how accurate the information would be, as openly telling the elders the truth can very quickly get you shunned. I know in my case although the main reason I left was the information I was getting from the Internet, as far as the congregation members know the reason I left was because of materialism. Although to a point this is correct and this is what would be sent to the society as a reason this is a far cry from the truth. How can they rely on been given the correct information when every one is to scared to give it for fear of been shunned. I would absolutely love to come out to them and tell them why I chose to fade, and probably would also also DA at the same time but under the present situation with immediate and extended family that just isn’t an option.
But good on you Wt for stepping up to the mark and I do think it show a level of maturity to admit there is a problem.
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Pickled brain says:
September 5, 2015 at 7:57 pm
@Thinkingofleaving. There are many like you who have Spent Decades serving The Organisation & now feel DISILLUSIONED!!!’ Why? Because WE HAVE A BRAIN & CAN REASON!!!
YOU ARE SO RIGHT the inactive ones if asked by Elders will not give the Real Reasons for FEAR of SHUNNING & LOSING CONTACT With FAMILY!!
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Sofia Medrano says:
September 5, 2015 at 7:06 pm
I doubt that Watchtower move a genuine interest in helping anyone. The reality is that they need more money for cumbersome trials from their victims that they must to pay and the luxury shameless life of their leaders.
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Pickled brain says:
September 5, 2015 at 8:13 pm
@Sofia . I am from England but I think a Many JWs from Many Different countries if they have Access to the INTERNET will SEE Right through the FACADE of these 7 PHONY FALSE PROPHETS in BROOKLYN soon to be housed in their LUXURIOUS LAKESIDE BUILDINGS in WARWICK!!
Stephen Lett was so BLATANT in his Monthly GB BROADCAST about not being SHY in BEGGING for MONEY!!!! Oh Yes Stephen you are Sooooo CHRISTLIKE in SHAMELESSLY Screwing MONEY from CHILDRENs ICE CREAM MONEY!!!
Ermmmm ! Jesus Had Nowhere to Lay his Head !
Paul was a TENTMAKER so as Not to be a Burden on the Brothers!!’ SO STEPHEN ME OLD BUDDY….. GO & GET A JOB & MAKE SOME LOVELY GORGEOUS LUXURY TENTS or at Least GET A JOB IN WALMART so as not to be a burden on the brothers!!!!
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Sardec says:
September 6, 2015 at 3:38 am
JW.ORGy trying to figure out which demographic to spin their trash to.
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Excelsior! says:
September 6, 2015 at 4:59 am
Folks,
The WTBTS’ new concern for inactive or faded individuals is due to the fact that they are haemoraging members, and the growth is only 1%, when natural birth and death rates are factored.
They are also becoming increasingly concerned about inactive or faded individuals informing those still active about all their dirty little secrets.
The inactive army is not quite as dormant as they once believed!
It takes millions of hours to make one new convert, if the WTBTS’ own figures are to be believed. It makes sense to try to reclaim any who have become inactive, before they can access the deluge of negative information readily available on the Internet.
I have read the “Return to Jehovah” pamphlet. It was really awful. It reeks of cultism. It assumes the reasons for becoming inactive, and yet totally ignores the main reasons – the beliefs are gobbledygook, and serious crimes have been covered up!
Sure, the WTBTS may well have a small number return due to this pamphlet, but can they ever truly trust their motives for returning?
We know that Pickled Brain and Average Joe are still active JWs, but they are no longer asleep. How many of the active JW population are truly, 100% loyal to the governing body now?
We all reap what we sow. The WTBTS have never provided an honourable, consequence free way of leaving their religion. They encourage shunning. With these facts in mind, those facing their exit from the cult have no option but to live lives that bury their true feelings and beliefs behind a facade of obedience. The WTBTS is reaping what it has sown. I am very pleased that they are discomforted and feeling that crawling sensation down their back!
Look out, Watchtower! Your enemies are within your gates!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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John Baptist says:
September 6, 2015 at 6:38 am
I always enjoy my Sunday morning worship by reading JWsurvey while lying in bed on my humble Iphone. Lol
And that all before my first and only cup of decaf coffee.
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John Baptist says:
September 6, 2015 at 7:34 am
Now that I have had my Decaf Coffee and have moved on to my computer. lol
I Google translated(TY Douglas Merrill) the Polish letter and found this very Interesting.
” Give their names, age, and a brief description of the causes,
THAT YOU THINK contributed to their situation”
Are you kidding me? How blatant of a CULT CONTROL TACTIC IS THAT? “THAT YOU THINK”
Well what about me the poor spiritually weak depressed soul your trying to save or flush out for fear of me and Perhaps what I MAY THINK contributed to ME and MY situation. How telling those objectives are!
Again are you trying to re-control my mind and what you think I should feel?
Fool me once but not twice!
You smell and act like a CULT! After all this is your MO for years. Perhaps you are the Wolf’s in Sheep’s Clothing that Jesus was talking about.
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Innocent Son says:
September 6, 2015 at 12:46 pm
The Storm Clouds are gathering! This ruthless cult-like religion is in fear!!! All the inactive ones and the faders will be checking out the Org. for themselves thanks to the Internet and sites like these. They will discover s tissue of lies they have been fed… Break free…My Brothers and Sisters, It’s lovely on the outside. Embrace the truth and live your lives without fear….
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Pickled brain says:
September 6, 2015 at 3:20 pm
@Excelsior,John Baptist & Innocent Son.
ENJOYED ALL Your Comments & all your points are well put & hopefully any inactive or Faders reading this Site will be encouraged by your Factual Reasonings!!
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Following the “Return to Jehovah” release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
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Posted on September 4, 2015
Tony Morris releases a brochure aimed at bringing back inactive ones, who now appear to be under closer scrutiny
Tony Morris releases a brochure aimed at bringing back inactive ones, who now appear to be under closer scrutiny
A leaked Watchtower letter in Polish addressed to all elders in Poland has asked for details of Witnesses who have become inactive since September 2014.
The letter gives instructions for congregations to send in the “S-10″ form – an annual document that asks elders for basic figures regarding the number of active/inactive/reactivated publishers, the amount of unworked territory, and the number of those who are deaf or blind.
But the leaked letter, dated September 1, 2015, makes an additional request for the particulars of anyone who has ceased to be an active publisher over the last 12 months. It is so far unclear as to whether the same letter has been sent out in other countries or languages.
A translation of the pertinent sentence in the letter reads: “Given the special care we are giving to our inactive ones, we ask your secretary to prepare an additional letter about witnesses who became inactive in the 2015 service year. Please specify their names, surnames, age and a short summary about what you think was the cause for their current situation.”
It goes on to say: “We are confident that the information they choose to divulge will assist you in better caring for the needs of our brothers and sisters throughout the territory. (1 Peter 5:2)”
Especially if similar instructions are issued throughout the world, the letter would seem to indicate that Watchtower is starting to bring inactive ones, and especially their motives, under closer scrutiny.
The “Return to Jehovah” brochure released at this year’s convention series (which the letter seems to allude to) indicates that there is a clear disparity between Watchtower’s notion of why people become inactive, and the reality of the situation.
The brochure suggests that Witnesses become inactive due to “anxiety,” “hurt feelings,” or “guilt.” But the most popular responses for 1,614 inactive/faders who took part in last year’s 2014 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses (the full results of which are soon to be published) indicated reasons involving intellectual honesty.
(Click on the image below to enlarge)
inactive-ones-2014Though there will always be a percentage of inactive ones who remain indoctrinated and blame themselves for being too “spiritually weak,” the reality is that often inactive ones simply grow tired of lending their support to a religion they no longer believe in.
Watchtower must understand this at some level, despite their fanciful treatment of the subject in the “Return to Jehovah” brochure. It is, after all, their shunning policy that makes Jehovah’s Witnesses a “captive organization” (to borrow the words of Angus Stewart at the Australian Royal Commission) from which it is impossible to leave gracefully.
If you are fortunate enough to wake up from your Witness indoctrination and seek to maintain contact with believing family members, turning inactive or “fading” on the understanding that you will not speak out against the organization is the only option available to you.
Perhaps Watchtower is already observing the signs of a mass exodus now that 100 years of “God’s Kingdom” have rolled by with no sign of Armageddon, thus rendering the cherished 1914 teaching increasingly obsolete. Or perhaps this new letter to elders in Poland is simply a genuine attempt at reaching out to “spiritually weak” ones in the wake of the new brochure.
Either way one thing is certain: if Watchtower wants to keep abusing its members through shunning, the mishandling of child abuse, the deadly prohibition on blood and the stigmatization of higher learning, they had better get used to Witnesses finding their way to the exit one way or the other.
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*Thanks to WifiBandit and the exJW Reddit community for bringing my attention to this letter.
To have your say in the 2015 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses, click here!
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104 Responses to Following the “Return to Jehovah” release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
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Average Joe says:
September 6, 2015 at 3:22 pm
Hey Excelsior. Thanks for mentioning me in dispatches. I feel honoured! This limbo state really is quite scary and unnerving. The WT study today was quite interesting as it was talking about making our spiritual paradise even better (nice sentiments for those genuine JWs that still exist) and yet we had the typical self-righteous comment that it was obvious that the “study” in the illustrations was progressing as he had changed his “worldly” hairstyle. I hadn’t even noticed it until that sister brought it out. Actually the WTS seem to associate being a JW with crappy hairstyles because God-forbid that anyone with a decent (as in well looked after) and modern hairstyle be granted everlasting life! 😉
It brought out to me the irony of the situation I am in. There are some really great people in our cong, who I tend to hang out with and when I think of it, they are classed as the “weaker” ones or “rebels” in the truth. They are not of course; they just see things like I do and decide not to let the judgemental comments of others get to them. It helps with me being an elder too as nobody can criticise me (without me telling them to stop judging at least) so at least my friends get some moral support.
It’s really sad that situations like this exist in an organisation that claims to stand apart from others in showing love.
On a side point, I hope one day to be able to share a drink with you Excelsior (and others on here too) as you seem like a thoroughly decent individual with a good head on your shoulders and a fine reasoning ability without coming across as judgmental or a know-it-all. Cheers!
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 6, 2015 at 8:14 pm
@Average Joe . Looks like we are in the same situation . & Yes ,the SELF RIGHTEOUS COMMENTS in the Watchtower this Weeks Study at the meeting made me SICK AT The HYPOCRISY!!!
One brother answered & said ‘We JWs are Privileged to be in a SPIRITUAL PARADISE & That JEHOVAHS ORGANISATION is the SAFEST PLACE to be because Our Organisation has the BEST MORALS!!!!!!’
I Nearly FELL OUT of MY CHAIR!!!!! This Comment was from an ELDER!! Oh MY GOD ??? I STARTED Having a COUGHING FIT. My wife said ‘Was I Alright?’ I said ‘ There is an AWFUL STENCH in here’ & I need to go to the toilet!!
BUT I Looked around the Hall & there were quite a fee Embarrassed Faces!! I know who has been following the Royal Commission in Australia & who Hasn’t!!!!
Reply
Excelsior! says:
September 8, 2015 at 7:23 am
Thanks, Average Joe!
It is gratifying to know that many folks on this site appreciate where I am coming from.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Reply
minion says:
September 6, 2015 at 4:54 pm
Good evening to all:
For the friends that live in Canada, you can protect yourself by way of implementing your privacy policy act or breach of personal information from the WT Corp. This agency is here to protect us, however, you must reach out to them and report a crime.
The excerpt provided is for informational purposes.
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minion says:
September 6, 2015 at 5:12 pm
Good evening to all:
For the friends that live in Poland, no worries or fears. We have an agency who will protect your personal privacy. However, you must reach out to them and file a complaint against the WT Corp.
The excerpt enclosed is for informational purposes, and there web address is, http://www.giodo.gov.pl
POLISH LEGAL ACTS CONCERNING THE PROTECTION OF PERSONAL DATA
Resolution of the first Polish Act on the Protection of Personal Data being a manifestation of progressing democratization of public life in Poland and concern for the protection of privacy of every Polish citizen which have found an expression in provisions of new Constitution of the Republic of Poland (Articles 47 and 51) had its direct origins also in the Polish international commitments. The provisions regulating the rules of personal data processing were introduced into Polish legislation by the Act of 29 August 1997 on the Protection of Personal Data (unified text: Journal of Laws of 2002 No. 101, item 926 with later amendments) which mostly follows the rules established by the Directive 95/46/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council and is compatible with the general policy of the European states. Introduction of the provisions concerning the protection of personal data into the Polish legal system allowed Poland signing on April 21, 1999 and ratification on May 24, 2002 of the Convention No. 108 of the Council of Europe. The aforementioned act is an essential component of the Polish personal data protection system, which is composed first of all, besides provisions of this act, of provisions of the Constitution: Article 47 guaranteeing everyone’s right to privacy and Article 51 guaranteeing everyone’s right to have the information pertaining to him/her protected.
Peace out,
Reply
minion says:
September 6, 2015 at 5:29 pm
Good evening to all:
To loçate your respective Personal Privacy Policy Act – Law in effect in your country. On how you can protect your personal information or if you feel WT Corp has breach or invaded your personal privacy, then you must file a complaint against WT Corp.
To locate the Personal Privacy Policy Act, go to Google: enter; ‘personal privacy policy act (state your Country)’ your resources will be in abundance.
You must file a complaint against WT Corp, for invading your personal privacy – your name.
Peace out,
Reply
minion says:
September 6, 2015 at 8:49 pm
Good evening to all:
For the friends that live in Poland.
You may also have available Free Legal Aid – assistance to help your defense in protecting your personal information private. Under the Personal Privacy Policy Act. Your information such as, name, age, status, address, etc. Is Private, WT Corp does not need this information, or has the right to do so.
The excerpt enclosed is for informational purposes. There web address:
https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/issues/rights-justice
Legal Aid in Poland
April 2015 Open Society Justice Initiative
Legal Aid in Poland
This fact sheet summarizes the legal representation available who cannot afford their own lawyer in Poland, including information on how legal aid is adminstered and who is eligible to receive it.
: Minimum Requirements under International Law
Other fact sheets in this series, prepared to support discussions on developing common European Union standards on legal aid, include:
Belgium
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Ireland
Italy
The Netherlands
Learn More:
Criminal Justice, Europe, European Union, Rights & Justice
Peace out,
Reply
WTS Archive says:
September 7, 2015 at 11:34 am
Wow, nice to see the letter I leaked being featured on JW Survey :). Greetings from Poland!
Reply
Outlookingin says:
September 7, 2015 at 1:02 pm
I have been inactive for 2 years so would not be a person of interest if a similar letter was sent to elders in the UK. Upon receiving a ‘Return To Jehovah’ brochure recently, I wrote a letter to the Society expressing my disappointment that there was no section dealing with the reasons for my departure. I explained that whilst I do suffer with anxiety, guilt and hurt feelings, these are things I have cultivated AS A RESULT of being a JW for 30 years. I continued by highlighting my reason for leaving; doctrinal conflict. Perhaps if others wrote a similar letter, the Society would have no need to ponder and speculate the reasons for the exodus!
Reply
Lisa Clark says:
September 7, 2015 at 1:59 pm
I too just received this brochure sent from my mother. I left 25 years ago, and she will not stop. Wondering how to address this and thinking I should send it back. Any suggestions?
Reply
minion says:
September 7, 2015 at 2:19 pm
Good evening Lisa:
Please go to and review in depth ‘JW Global Survey 2015′ and review question #60.
You will find helpful topics of conversations or conversation stoppers. Be sure to type out the series of questions, they are powerful and most profound.
Your mother gave you a gift, return the favor using question #60 in a pre-printed format. No doubt she will review the contents at her lesuire. Away from your presence.
Peace out,
Reply
Mary says:
September 7, 2015 at 4:51 pm
This is actually nothing new. I remember doing a “Comments You Will Not Hear” several years ago on JWD and I think it was called “Help The Return” or something like that. It was all about those that become inactive and trying to lurn them back to the Borg ‘before it’s too late!’
I think they’re hesitant to DF or DA inactive ones simply because there’s always the chance that they’ll go back. However, I do agree that they’ll probably start brow-beating the elders to contact those who are inactive and nag the living crap out of them to come back.
Reply
Dan says:
September 7, 2015 at 6:26 pm
The power they have is only the power that you give them. They are no one, and I have no time for them.
Reply
Redgreenyellow says:
September 7, 2015 at 11:56 pm
A warning for those living in the lords day (our day) from Jesus about the congragations (called lampstands).He said they would desolve or be taken away if the leaders (or angels/elders) are not doing what they are supposed to. (Rev. 1:20 ;2:5)
In Jude 11-13 it says of Elders: “Stars with no set course” and “sheperds who feed themselves without fear” saying about them “These are the rocks hidden below water at your love feast.”
They are those who are supposed to be leading good but are no longer righteous due to the unrighteousness that was found in them by God Almighty.
Sad to say but they are the reason so many leave .They put on a mask for their circut over seers fooling them, however the people with no power or the weak are the witness God will use against them and by them they will be jugded.
GOD SAYS in Malachi 3:5 about His people who are bad -“I will come near to you for judgment, and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, against the adulterers, against those who take false oaths, against those who defraud the hired worker, the widow, and the fatherless child, and against those who refuse to help a foreigner.
These have not feared me,” Says Jehovah of armies.
Reply
Wip it says:
September 8, 2015 at 6:05 pm
I see a clear falling away attitude from so many here, the comment made about the elders is quite true, no love shown, no concern, we are just marked at being negative, meeting attendance is poor, i think the longer time goes on more & more will fade, the last co visit put the elders on notice, i personally have been burnt by them, (we call them Pharisee’s now) I have had a beard/goatee for the last 2 years, some of them won’t even talk to me, their is no spirit here, & people just keep on asking what is wrong with this place. We just have to be smart so as not to be investigated, but as they don’t talk to me its not a problem, & i can safely sit here at work & send blogs freely.So as my wife doesn’t know, as she is still convinced this is the truth.The last elder who moved in was completely destroyed by them as he was outspoken, in his own words he is now poisoned, younger guys see it & feel the same.
Reply
search4truth says:
September 9, 2015 at 5:11 pm
Many Polish jw’s moved to England in the past ten years. There are Polish congregations in every larger British city
with dozens of publishers. I believe thats the main reason for the drop of publishers in Poland.
Reply
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← Following the “Return to Jehovah” release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
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Posted on September 5, 2015
Fear plays a powerful role in cult indoctrination
Fear plays a powerful role in cult indoctrination
If I lay a plank across two overturned buckets, it should be simple to walk across it unharmed. If I take that same plank, however, and suspend it across an extremely deep and narrow chasm the walk across would be an entirely different experience. Even through both walks would be the same physical demonstration, mentally and emotionally they are dramatically different.
This is because of the way fear works in the brain. It has a tendency to overpower our logical faculties and, at times, create the very circumstances we are so fearfully avoiding.
When walking across a bridge over a deep chasm, for example, it’s best to avoid even looking down. Simply looking down could induce paranoia and compromise your ability to balance. Looking straight ahead and focusing on the task at hand is the best way to get safely across.
Jehovah’s Witnesses exist in an environment where fear is a prime motivator. In their world view 1914 marked the year when the earth was invaded by wicked spirit creatures cast down from heaven in huge numbers. They see the entire world population as deceived by those powerful spirit beings and on the path to a painful death that will bring about eternal destruction. Many do not challenge this narrative because doing so would immediately induce a state of fear and mental pain.
They claim that the only means of survival from these superhuman foes is in the protective arms of “God’s organization.” Only by listening to and obeying the information that comes out of “God’s channel” can you defeat the invisible demon hordes that allegedly riddle the planet.
Fear supply and demand
When attempting to market a product it is highly effective to convince customers it will save them from some looming catastrophe. Once you do that it is much easier to get them to make a commitment. Fear sells.
In the May 2015 JW Broadcasting episode hosted by Stephen Lett, a JW man recounted his experience as a child when he encountered one of the Watchtower’s books:
“When I was six years old my aunt, who’d just become a witness, she showed me this book. And there is a picture inside I remember so well: it’s of Armageddon. That scares a little kid, I thought, ‘I don’t want to be there.’ But a few pages later there’s a picture of a paradise. I never forgot it and I wanted to be there someday. So I thought, maybe my aunt has something. What have I got to lose? So I called them and said, ‘send over some witnesses.’”
This man’s experience aptly shows how Jehovah’s Witnesses successfully use fear to market to young and impressionable minds. First, he was subjected to a grizzly image of a child falling to her death. Then, once he is genuinely terrified of a painful divine execution, he’s shown a paradise earth. The fear-based marketing strategy was a total success and resulted in a life-long member.
Details from page 209 of the 1958 book "From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained"
Details from page 209 of the 1958 book “From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained”
The May Watchtower “study edition” has a duo of articles that follow the same exact pattern. The first article is all about how Satan and his demons are extremely powerful, cruel and malicious. They have the entire world in their hands and it’s impossible to face them alone. The very next article then quells the fear by asserting that success is possible by following it’s guidance.
The boogeymen
The May Watchtower mentioned above begins with the statement: “At one point in time, he [Satan] enjoyed a fine standing with Jehovah.” The statement alludes to a concept often repeated by Jehovah’s Witnesses on the podium and in their literature. They tell the story of how apostates come to be, and it often begins with someone who was a model religious figure; someone who was well respected.
The next sentence goes on to say that, at some point, Satan began to desire the worship of humans which sent him down the path of evil and enmity with God. It’s common for Jehovah’s Witnesses to accuse ex members who are activists as seeking glory for themselves. The way they describe the personality of apostates is reminiscent of the way they describe God’s greatest foe: Satan the Devil. They are clearly drawing a parallel.
Activists who expose the Watchtower have to deal with a constant stream of slander and disinformation. They are consistently misconstrued as power-hungry maniacs who are seduced by the Devil into campaigning against the faith of “God’s people.” Apostates are the boogeymen and are to be avoided at all costs.
The May article makes sure to tell readers that, without divine help, there is only failure in the fight against the Devil and his minions:
“Never underestimate the power of such wicked angels or that of ‘the ruler of the demons.’ Without help from Jehovah, we could never win our fight against Satan.”
This narrative helps retain membership, because it uses the idea that if you ever leave you’re basically demon fodder. In the world of the Watchtower, if you ever leave your peers will consider you someone who has willingly embarked on a suicide mission.
Phobia Induction
Destructive cults use phobias to control people and create dependency.
It’s similar to the way substance abuse works. Once addicted, a person will not be able to see themselves in a substance-free life. The very prospect is just too terrifying, because they have developed a severe dependency. Similarly, members of cults are guided into believing that without the aid of the cult only failure and misery await. This makes the first steps of leaving extremely difficult, which ensures that many will simply give up and stay.
In the beginning of my awakening, about 6 years ago, I sat down at my computer and used a search engine to research Jehovah’s Witnesses. I remember experiencing intense fear when I read through the results, because many of them were obviously critical of the religion. I distinctly remember my hand trembling as I moved my mouse and clicked on a link.
This is a perfect example of how my past religion induces phobias in its membership. I was extremely afraid of a website written by someone critical of the Watchtower. I had been conditioned to believe that anything critical was written by evil, power-hungry drones of Satan. It was quite some time before I was able to get past that entrenched fear and really start looking into the religion honestly.
Frankly, leaving was the best thing that ever happened to me. It enabled me to start a whole new life unencumbered by past irrational fears. Life is difficult enough without adding on unnecessary anxiety brought on by fears not based in reason or evidence. Looking back, I can safely say that nothing Watchtower predicted took place. It was all just a bunch of fears that were put into me instead of originating within me.
If you or someone you love suffers from irrational fears brought on by cult indoctrination, there are resources available to help. There are also many people out there going through the same experience in various stages. We are not alone and the feelings we experience are a natural occurrence of the undue influence we were subjected to.
Recovering from cult indoctrination is an incremental process and involves a sizable amount of perseverance. Let’s walk across this chasm safely and together. Just try not to look down!
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124 Responses to Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
September 5, 2015 at 1:43 am
Good article. Ruling by “INDUCING FEAR” is evident in their own publications. Here you are! In Rwanda, the waves of fear are still pushing the cult forward…
*** w95 1/1 pp. 6-7 Triumphing Over Satan and His Works ***
In Strife-Torn Rwanda
10 In 1993, Rwanda, with 2,080 Kingdom publishers, had 4,075 attend the “Divine Teaching” District Convention, and 230 were baptized. Of these, 142 immediately applied for auxiliary pioneer service. Home Bible studies being conducted climbed to 7,655 in 1994—evidently too many for Satan’s liking! Though the great majority of the populace profess to be Christian, intertribal massacres were launched. The Vatican’s L’Osservatore Romano admitted: “This is an out-and-out genocide, for which unfortunately even Catholics are responsible.” An estimated half million men, women, and children died, and some two million were made homeless or forced to flee. Maintaining their nonviolent Christian neutrality, Jehovah’s Witnesses tried to stay together. Hundreds of our brothers and sisters were killed. But in one congregation of 65 Kingdom publishers, where 13 were killed, meeting attendance increased to 170 by August 1994. Relief supplies from Witnesses in other lands were among the first to arrive. Our prayers ascend in behalf of the survivors.—Romans 12:12; 2 Thessalonians 3:1, 2; Hebrews 10:23-25.
11 Amid all the horror, the three missionaries who were in Rwanda escaped. They write: “We realize that our brothers throughout the world have had to face up to similar situations or worse, and we know that it is all part of the sign of the last days of this wicked system. Still, when one is personally involved, it brings home the reality of things and makes one appreciate how precious life is. Certain scriptures have taken on new meaning for us, and we look forward to the time when the former things will no longer come to mind. In the meantime we want to keep busy in Jehovah’s service.”
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Ziddina says:
September 5, 2015 at 12:30 pm
How ironic that the Watchtower Society, with all of its millions (perhaps even being worth a billion dollars at this point), failed to even consider sending assistance to get all of the Rwandan Jehovah’s Witnesses out of the area of conflict – or the country – to a refuge center until the dangers had passed.
I guess that would be left to the “worldly” agencies under “Satan’s” direction via the United Nations – now that the Watchtower Society’s Brooklyn headquarters are no longer registered as an NGO with the United Nations…
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eyesopen says:
September 5, 2015 at 4:42 pm
Excellent point.
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JBob says:
September 7, 2015 at 5:32 pm
“worldly” agencies? you mean like the United Nations NGO’s?
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Patti says:
September 5, 2015 at 2:01 am
This is one of the best eye opener articles I have read and made me feel as though I should comment on it.
Having been raised as a JW along with my 4 brothers since I was about 5 years old all of this really makes sense. All of us were repeatedly told fear inspiring and scary supposed truths/facts that caused nightmares, confusion (thought God was the epitome of love) and definitely put serious doubt in our minds about life.
So far two of my brothers and myself, as well as our families, have taken a stand against these lies. Unless someone has been indoctrinated it would be easy for them to say – just leave – but the ramifications are daunting – at first anyway.
I was always a sort of rebel, asking questions that I knew there were answers to. The elders (and our parents) always seemed to circumvent answering them or gave us a shallow and incomplete answer that they hoped would suffice. They said that IF these questions were important to our lives the GB would make sure we had the answers or a similar line of reasoning. Also would use the old and worn out phrase – J will give us clarification or answers in the proper time.
On their death beds both of our parents expressed confusion and doubt about what they had believed. My dad actually said ‘I hope I didn’t just waste 50 years of my life’ (he was an elder for most of that time). He also admitted that he should have pursued the answers to my questions when I asked them as now he had the same doubts.
We are so very disgusted that the GB will not and have never accepted responsibility for their statements written and verbally stated that terrified people into becoming unthinking followers. In our opinion, they are totally bloodguilty and only continue to put more and more heavy burdens on everyone – making laws of their own and using scriptures out of context to support them.
Thanks for posting this very enlightening and hopefully life-saving article.
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Paul says:
September 5, 2015 at 2:39 am
I agree with you 100% about the responsibility of the GB who now place themselves above Christ. They are really blood guilty and total idiots as JW TV is now proudly showing the whole world.
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Robertperez says:
September 5, 2015 at 9:39 am
and whatever happened to the discreet part?
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Paul says:
September 5, 2015 at 2:36 am
Thanks James,
A very clear and concise explanation of how WT uses fear to control people. I too trembled when first searching the Internet. I downloaded Ray Franz book, and felt terribly guilty just doing that! I expected to read a demonic rant from a deranged bitter person and half expected that I would not get very far into the book before confirming this.
The truth was totally the opposite – what a modest, mild and cari g person he proved to be! Never once speaking harshly of those that treated him so badly. His book changed our lives. We went to just 1 meeting after that book, and during that meeting I was reading his second book on my iPad!
We have not been to a meeting since and we are so much happier as a couple and in ourselves, it is amazing… Hard to get over 60+ years of indoctrination, but so great to be free from fear and guilt.
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Robertperez says:
September 5, 2015 at 9:45 am
Just remember all of this discredits them not God or his son. There is only one mediator between men and God. You know who that is and he doesn’t live in New York. Letter to the Colossians reminds us where true north is, if we ever get disorientated.
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vivian says:
September 5, 2015 at 9:32 pm
Wow, and a huge congratulations and well wishes to the two of you!
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vivian says:
September 5, 2015 at 9:39 pm
My grandparents became witnesses when they were new young immigrants to the US. They had many children and of course became very busy raising them. I believe had my grandmother been able to study in her native language, and had time to pause and access her beliefs would not be a jw today. All of their children and all grandchildren are deep into jw society. I want to ask her, but i am anxious about it, and she is in her 80s. Anyway, really its wonderful to hear a couple able to leave after so long indoctrinated, i know it took a great amount of strength and humility.
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ForestDaughter says:
September 5, 2015 at 3:06 am
Excellent article.
When I left the org 24 yrs ago I still had those mental time-bomb fears for a very long time, with all the attendant problems of C-PTSD that went with it. It took a good 5 yrs or so to work through everything, but now that I’m free and mentally healthy I’m so incredibly glad that I’m able to say ‘better late than never’.
Articles such as this, along with all the resources we have at our disposal today can be such a lifeline and an eye-opener. Well done. :)
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Chrissy says:
September 5, 2015 at 3:10 am
I’m a Cuurent Witness and yes I agree they work on the old premise of Fear just like the church has done.
If you sin , you will go to Hell!
If you do not serve Jehovah whole heartedly , you will not go through To the new system!
Sisters you must be in subjection to your husband along with all the other Bull Crap you read in the Insight book under Women.
Well I’m not going to conform to the 1940’s version they have of the ideal Wife. Next meeting, I’m wearing Pants!
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EverydayExplorer says:
September 5, 2015 at 1:35 pm
Well done, Chrissy!
Respect to you.
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Mellie says:
September 6, 2015 at 12:37 am
I’m also still attending meetings out of necessity. I hate the entire mysoginistic crap that goes on. I feel rebellious eveytime I hear the word ‘subjugation’.
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John Baptist says:
September 6, 2015 at 4:43 am
Why not instead just don’t go anymore and wear your pants all the time without any fear?
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Jorge Sanchez says:
September 5, 2015 at 4:05 am
Publicar en español , ayudaría a más de 3 millones.
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Robertperez says:
September 5, 2015 at 9:52 am
Tiene que ser alguien como Lloyd, que se a capasitado a razonar con gente de mente cerrada sin ofender o llamar la atencion asimimo.
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Jaak says:
September 5, 2015 at 4:25 am
My brother, sister and both parents are still in the cult.
I was never baptised so they can speak to me.
If I try to awake them and speak about the things I learned here and on other sites, they really look hurting.
After it I always feel bad and tell to myself that I can not do this anymore, it is all they have…
My brother wants to quit his job and start pioneering, so all I was telling him was instructed by Satan.
Thank God he will not avoid me.
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Rowland Nelken says:
September 5, 2015 at 4:27 am
Great piece. It could be very effective. We know that active JWs read this site. It could reassure them and encourage them to junk the old money grabbing cult without fear.
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John Plummer says:
September 5, 2015 at 5:47 am
Great article! As a child I too remember, “From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained” and its pictures of lions lying down with lambs in the restored earth-wide Garden of Eden. Ahhhh, how sweet…. how manipulative…. how deceitful!
Of course, at that time, Armageddon was coming “before the generation that witnessed the year 1914 passes away” so it was easy to be motivated and certain about how soon it would come. But now, thanks to Jehovah’s “increased light” we know that it’s coming before the generation that overlaps the generation that witnessed the year 1914 passes away! (I never did understand how this change in doctrine was an “increase” in “light”!)
The truly, “Good news” here is that by giving this latest Armageddon prophecy the stamp of “increased light” authority the Governing Body has signed its own death warrant. When this “overlapping” generation begins to pass away, as it most surely will, what then Jehovah’s Witnesses? I’ll tell you: either Jehovah lied, or the Governing Body lied – there will be no other possible conclusion – and either way, the religion will be finished… and the whole world will cry out in unison.. “Good Riddance”!!
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al etheredge says:
September 6, 2015 at 3:03 pm
I don’t see it. People remained after the failed prophesies of 1914 and 1925. I left after the 1975 debacle, but many remained. No matter the extent of the lies leading up to it, an indoctrinated core will always accept ‘new light’ from the GB. This seems pessimistic, but it has been my experience.
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ScotWm says:
September 9, 2015 at 11:04 am
RE: I don’t see it. People remained after the failed prophesies of 1914 and 1925.
The Governing Body appears to be composed of two distinct personality types: Those who are delusional, such as Anthony Morris III, and those who are compulsive liars, such as Stephen Lett and Geoffrey Jackson.
Cult members who are delusional remain because they actually believe what the Governing Body says. Other cult members remain because they are afraid of being left alone when they lose association with their family and all other cult members.
The result is a religion of the deluded and fearful obeying every whim of their deluded and lying leaders, despite a mountain of evidence that contradicts what they are being taught.
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Garrett says:
September 5, 2015 at 6:33 am
Well written James! So glad to have you on the team. I loved the illustrations in The Paradise Book as a child. They do make you laugh now though because you see the 1950s mentality.
Men in the streets getting ready to rumble in suits! You know there must be conflict because their Bryll-Cream hair is coming un done.
Caption- “Why I outa give you a knuckle sandwich pal!” …”oh yeah! Well dat serves ya right Mac! POW! Right in da kisser!”
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Renae says:
September 5, 2015 at 8:20 am
Thanks for this well written article, James.
I had to laugh when you wrote about your hand shaking as you clicked on a link. My first experience with “apostate” websites took place at the library, on my laptop, with my back in a corner so no one could see what I was viewing, and yes, my hand was shaking as I clicked on the website. Overcoming this fear has been incremental, but not passive. I’ve had to work at it. When I was out in the ministry one day, a man at the door asked me if I had read the Bhagavad Gita, or the Quaran. I had to admit I hadn’t. He then asked me how it was that I knew these other beliefs were wrong when I didn’t know anything about them. This conversation stayed with me for years, until the logic of it pushed me into obtaining copies of both the Gita and the Quaran. I’ll never forget the first night they were in the house. I was scared to death, due to the unholy literature I had brought into the house, that the demons would show up at any minute, even though I had already admitted to myself that I no longer believed what Watchtower was peddling. Throughout the night I had to keep telling myself I was safe; there were no demons. When at last morning came and there had been no visitors in the night, I laughed with such relief and yelled, “I knew it wasn’t true, I knew it wasn’t true!” LOL
I relate this story because it has always impressed on me how entrenched fear can be. It even seems to override head knowledge. If there is anyone reading this who fears information of ANY kind, sometimes that fear will never go away unless you turn into, just like a ship heads into a wave to keep from capsizing. Sometimes you just have to take fear on, and prove to yourself that the only thing to fear is fear of knowledge.
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eyes opened says:
September 5, 2015 at 11:22 am
Hi Renae,
I really appreciate your illustration of a ship heading into the wave. Paints a good picture and makes the point.
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ruthlee says:
September 5, 2015 at 8:56 am
dear james a good article very well written .fear really runs most of the sisters i encounter in fact i wonder if i stay because they need words of love and kindness this guilt trip is so damaging and i suspect some will never recover meanwhile when us longtime jws wake up its so daunting because time is so precious and we have this one life. funny thing jws so paralized with fear they dont do anything at all so they fear life now life and in the future and need bottle feeding to live. it really is a human tragedy i hope i live long enough to see the liberation of the innocent rl
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Malachi says:
September 5, 2015 at 9:56 am
Nice article, good insight into the phobias that religious cults such as this thrive on. I gave up my beliefs in all this superstitious nonsense quite a while ago so I never really made the connection with the demon haunted world caused by hoards of demon being ousted from heaven and the fear that that induces. However I do remember growing up and being told that unless I was good I would be DESTROYED at Armageddon, the word ‘destroyed’ always spoken with an intensity that made it obvious that a simple death would be inadequate for anyone judged as wicked by god. Those pictures from the orange ‘Paradise’ book bring back fond memories :)
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JWIntellect says:
September 5, 2015 at 9:58 am
Superb article!
“Life is difficult enough without adding on unnecessary anxiety brought on by fears not based in reason or evidence.”
You can say that again.
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Exhausted says:
September 5, 2015 at 11:44 am
Hi James
This article really hit the nail on the head for me, as I
Was a pre-schooler when I learned to read out of that
Very book. I also grew up in fear of almost everything
Worldly, and as a result became very withdrawn. When
I finally did grow out of that, I turned to alcohol to calm
My insecurities that grew out of knowing that things
Were not right. I have been out for some time now,
But I still am haunted by fears and guilt that I am
Some awful person, while I know that is not really the
Case. Keep sending your message because it helps even
Us oldie Goldie’s who have been damaged emotionally
One way or another by this org.
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Ted says:
September 5, 2015 at 1:57 pm
Drug dependency is a good analogy to describe the Satan phobia
James. Both are extremely difficult to get out of the system.
Many get clear of drugs in rehab only to succumb to the powerful
craving again when they go out into the real world.
Some who have left the demon obsessed cult have been drawn
back by some incident that they ascribe to these imaginary
entities. Maybe a picture falling off the wall or a realistic
nightmare.
A brother in our cong, faded for about two years, then he saw this
guy on TV bending spoons just by rubbing them, it scared the cr-p
out of him and he came scurrying back full of contrition for leaving.
As you indicate, there are plenty of real issues that demand our time
and attention without our lives being taken over by a superstition
riddled cult.
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John Baptist says:
September 5, 2015 at 9:47 pm
Nicely written keep up the fine work you do. It is appreciated by many. It’s good to know the real “Truth” about things.
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vivian says:
September 5, 2015 at 9:52 pm
They talk about “freeing” the African and whatever other cultures they say are entrenched in “spiritistic” religions/beliefs when the sect itself is propelled along by its own version of spiritistim. Really, so much power, recognition, and authority is allotted to ‘satan’ and his ‘demons’. When i heard a noise in the dark as a child i always firmly yelled , “Jehovah!” just as i had been taught. LOL a lot to that!!!! Well, it did help me get to sleep tho. Like counting sheep but better.
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steve smith says:
September 5, 2015 at 10:05 pm
it’s interesting, this kind of fear mongering doesn’t stop with religion…. Governments all over the world use imaginary boogieman (terrorists are one example), when most people in the western world are more likely to be suppressed by their governments (or killed in the US), than by “terrorists”. Obviously those dealing in violence on either side are wrong, unless it’s self-defense, or in defense of the undefenable.
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Meredith J says:
September 6, 2015 at 3:06 am
What a well written article for such a young man. I hope this might help those who are trembling to open the door and walk outside. Opening the door knob is the scariest part but once you are outside it’s not as bad as you thought and you haven’t been struck down. Life still goes on minus the Watchtower without all that personal study and all those meetings and all that witnessing. You can do the stuff that you always wanted to do. You become a normal person. You walked out the door to freedom. And the more knowledge you get about this cult, the more convinced you are that you did the right thing.
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anonymous says:
September 6, 2015 at 3:39 am
Thank you James for such a good article! I also was so scared when I first started researching on the internet and I had to hide the fact that I was researching from my husband because I was so scared of him finding out what I was doing.
The first thing I saw on Wikipedia was that the Society had joined itself to the United Nations from 1992 to 2002 and I thought it had to be a lie and it led me to jwfacts and other websites and youtube videos etc. and finally I realized it was all true. That led me to ordering Crisis of Conscience and I only went to one more meeting after reading that book.
Now I can look on the internet and I don’t care if my husband is sitting right next to me at his computer and my hands no longer shake. It took me several months before the fear of Armageddon went away. For a long time the thought went through my mind “what if the Society is right about Armageddon?” but after a few months even that fear left me. Lloyd has a good video about that very subject.
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Garrett says:
September 6, 2015 at 6:57 am
Anonymous.
I’ve often wondered like yourself if Armageddon could be true (lots of scientific evidence for the global flood) or if there is a God etc. When people ask me what I believe I simply don’t know . I only know what I don’t believe , starting with all the WT garbage.
I’ve traveled 50 countries and have many of the worlds religions up close. From the Baha’i in Haifa, the Jain on the streets of Katmandu, the Muslims at prayer in Zanzibar to the Buddhists in Bankok. I don’t believe ANY religion out there has the truth. I’ve not seen it anywhere. So I say to myself that I have done all I can do to search for truth and still come up empty handed. If there is a God out there, then he knows what Bars I hang out in. If he wishes to give me a tap on the shoulder while I’m drinking my creamy Blue Moon and buffalo wings and tell me what is really going on, then I will wipe chin and listen to what he has to say. Until then however, I have to say, God is quieter than Helen Keller with Boxing gloves on. I just don’t know . I’ll sit and watch and wait…..for another beer.
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anonymous says:
September 6, 2015 at 7:31 am
Garrett, a really good movie to watch is Bill Maher’s movie Rigligulous where he traveled all over the world examining up close most of the world’s religions. If anybody reading this hasn’t seen that movie, I very much encourage you to rent it if you can.
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Garrett says:
September 6, 2015 at 2:06 pm
Yes Anonymous.
I’ve seen Religulous. Love Bill Maher.
Better still is George Carlin.
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anonymous says:
September 6, 2015 at 7:27 pm
Garrett, I loved the video of George Carlin’s take on religion and I also think he’s great. Thanks for posting!!
eyes opened says:
September 6, 2015 at 11:02 am
So much taught by wbts is said to apply to our day and because of that many fulfilled prophecies have been missed. And of course some are still looking for Jesus or waiting for him to receive full authority. I suspect Armageddon is one of those prophecies. There is no clear evidence when revelation was written, it is simply excepted that it was after 70 ce. There is scriptural support that the destruction of Jerusalem was likely Armageddon. The support also exists in the “works of Josephus” . Who could have been more babylonish than God’s chosen people who demanded the death of their own messiah. I don’t wish to be preachy, teachy so I’ll say no more. Anyone can research it if so inclined. If Armageddon has already happened then a lot of fear goes away, something wbts probably wouldn’t like.
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Robertperez says:
September 6, 2015 at 8:25 pm
Really? Troll much?
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RC says:
September 7, 2015 at 12:31 am
Try searching for Him within yourself. Who knows , you might find Him there.
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Excelsior! says:
September 7, 2015 at 4:26 am
Garrett,
Please can you direct me to the scientific evidence for a world wide flood, circa 5000BC?
Is this a world-wide flood that covered every land mass?
Thanks
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Garrett says:
September 7, 2015 at 5:21 am
Excelsior,
Yes. I can.
The following are all well documented.
1 Palm trees sheared off at the stump and flash frozen in the Antarctic.
2 Wooly mammoths flash frozen with vegetation in their mouths and their flesh is fresh enough to cut off, grill and eat.
3 An excavator who I know does digging in Alaska on projects. He said ” I can’t even tell you how many times I have dug up palm tree leaves.”
4 there is even a layer that geologists call the “flood layer by all the animalies they see there”
5 groups of non compatable animals in the same area in massive amounts as if they all sought shelter together from a common threat and died together.
6 flood legend is a common take in cultures around the world.
7 shells and marine life skeletons at the tops of mountains.
8 many reported sightings of the ark on Arafat and wood that was taken supposedly from it dates to the biblical date of the flood. Even the United States military through use of satellite imagery acknowledge that there is an “Arrarat Phenomenon” that they stop short of calling an ark.
And that is just off the top of my head Excelsior while laying in bed.
Worst part is that my George Carlin video link of him bashing religion got taken down. Sigh ….
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anonymous says:
September 7, 2015 at 8:50 am
Garrett, according to Genesis 7:20, the flood waters covered the mountains with only fifteen cubits (22.5 feet) of water. Does that make sense to anyone? How could such a huge ark that the Bible describes possibly float in that little of water and how high were mountains when the water was only 22.5 feet deep?
All the things that you brought up that supposedly prove an earth wide flood are the things that I remember being told to us in the “Did Man Get Here by Evolution or By Creation?” published by the Society in 1967.
I believed all that stuff in that book and all those things sound just like they came out of a Watchtower publication but all of the things that you brought up don’t prove an earth wide flood to me. Floods happen in areas that is true, but was it an earth wide flood as the Bible says? That is the evidence I am looking for.
Nobody has found the ark yet. When somebody actually produces the ark, then I will believe it.
al etheredge says:
September 7, 2015 at 12:05 pm
Garrett, I encourage you to look at the flood story a bit more critically. Radiometric dates obtained from frozen mammoth carcasses indicate these deaths took place over a wide span of time. This does not correlate to a single flood event. I don’t know a single credible geologist who describes a worldwide flood layer, and I study geology so I pay attention to things like that. If you can provide a reference, I would appreciate it. The flood account itself poses many questions. I’ll provide a link that discusses some of them:http://ncse.com/cej/4/1/impossible-voyage-noahs-ark
To my knowledge, there is not enough water in the oceans, glaciers, underground aquifers, and the atmosphere combined to raise sea levels more than 400 feet above their current level. The biblical story of the flood is, at best, implausible.
Excelsior! says:
September 8, 2015 at 5:33 am
Garrett,
None of these is proof of a worldwide flood.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Garrett says:
September 7, 2015 at 1:50 pm
Actually,
I will challenge you ALL on these flood points. And No, I do not have an agenda religious or otherwise. I don’t have stock in seawater or a boat building company. You’ve not refuted one point I made here. As to the 15 civics the bible mentioned it was over the highest point. Everest if it was accurate. I’m sure you did study geology but I’ve seen numerous programs where the flood layer is discussed.
I’m still waiting for explanations from any one of you to explain how animal and vegetation can be killed and instantly frozen and preserved to this day. And not just in one area of the world but in Siberia, Alaska and Antarctica like I referenced.
Sorry… I wish there WASNT evidence of a flood but I have to be honest and say… Yeah…. It does have a fair amount of backing….
I’m waiting for your counter arguments….
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Garrett says:
September 7, 2015 at 1:56 pm
Al etheridge…
I’ll read that link you sent … It looks interesting .
Keep in mind that radio carbon dating would be drastically influenced by pre and post flood conditions .
The laying bare of the sun wound complete squew those readings during that time. I’m very cautious and suspicious of radio carbon dating as it requires “all things being equal” it’s a rough tool at best .
Garrett says:
September 7, 2015 at 3:22 pm
Al
Just read the logic behind the points mentioned in your link. Pretty amazing. I’ve not heard most of those arguments ever. I don’t agree with all of them of course, especially in light of the Adjenda of the site “defending evolution” but there are too many arguments for them all to be wrong. Even as a witness I had many questions on the genetic aspects. According to the “kinds” and how we could today have so many varieties so quickly from a single pair. Didn’t jive.
There are many arguments that could be dismissed if one believes there was God behind it all orchestrating things that would otherwise be impossible.
It is an import point. Because if their assertations are true then you can throw away Jesus who believed that story, the bible and many other things.
I can see myself reading this again many times and researching counter arguments.
Thanks for sharing
Meredith J says:
September 8, 2015 at 5:16 am
I was watching a program recently called First Footprint and it was about the early aborigines in Australia. I was surprised that in their family history they speak about the Flood as a real event. They believe the evidence is clear.
al etheredge says:
September 8, 2015 at 6:23 pm
Hello Garrett, thanks for the reply. Please don’t think I consider myself an expert on this issue, I am only a college student studying geology. There is a lot of information online written by people with various agendas. Look through it with some discernment and form your own conclusions. I also do not object to the Bible’s account except when taken as completely literal. Different Christian denominations have different interpretations. One I recently came across was that the flood story was a metaphor illustrating the benefits of obedience for the Hebrews. Who knows? But it’s a thought.
Ted says:
September 6, 2015 at 6:33 am
Adam, God’s crowning earthly creation, whose genes have
been passed on to the worlds greatest scientists, philosophers
and intellects. Yet he didn’t have the nous to figure out that
snakes have neither a larynx or vocal chords.
Of course his genes have also been passed on to a lot of
idiots. To which group do those belong, who believe that
that fable has any connection to reality?
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Robertperez says:
September 6, 2015 at 8:27 pm
You can’t see the forest because the trees are in your way. Is that really your dismissal of scripture?
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Felipe says:
September 6, 2015 at 11:02 am
I am not interested in seeing this message displayed. I only want to suggest to you to correct “grizzly”. You meant “grisly”. An error free article will give you even greater credibility.
“First, he was subjected to a grizzly image of a child falling to her death.”
As I said before, this was a great article. Just don’t allow the reader to get distracted by misspellings. Or worse, don’t allow readers the slightest chance to use minor errors as an excuse to detract from the content.
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Robertperez says:
September 6, 2015 at 8:29 pm
Yur abslutly rite bout dat. Signed, grammar Nazi.
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Catalina says:
September 6, 2015 at 1:20 pm
James Strait, I like the point you made when you wrote apostates are consistently misconstrued as power-hungry maniacs who are seduced by the Devil into campaigning against the faith of “God’s people.” My father was an elder and he used to say to me, “let me do your thinking for you” when I asked questions he couldn’t answer. I was born in the ‘truth’ and I was inactive for 21 years. My brother told me he didn’t speak to me during that time because I wasn’t going to meetings. Now that I attend meetings I’m accepted by my family. The funny thing is I don’t like my family anymore. Now that they are talking to me and my eyes are open I see how manipulative and two faced they are. My sister uses JW literature to discourage her daughters from having children saying the end is near. I can’t resist, I give her a hard time. I asked her why she had kids. I remind her my parents used that same fear on her. Religion is based on fear to control it’s members. The members become two faced in order to do whatever they want. I don’t like them any longer.
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Robertperez says:
September 6, 2015 at 8:49 pm
At the end of the day the problem is not with faith itself, but rather with the WT and your family. The behavior you described could only be practiced by people who claim faith, but have truly never read the Bible for themselves. They’ve read 100, 000 pages of literature about the Bible, but the Bible itself is a no zone for them, only to be ingested when cited in a magazine. Who needs to read and meditatibly study it, when you get the Idiots version in large dozes week after week. “Please tell me what I should think” is the dominant attitude. A direct result of no investment in education, from early childhood on. Why invest yourself in edumacation if college is a no no anyway. How can their ministry be of any use if critical thinking skills are never developed, the same that will cement their faith in Gods word after thuroughly studying it with a developed brain. The same that will keep people from wanting to jump out of windows during excruciatingly dull, read talks. The very thing that raises every red flag surrounding the organization when viewing it in the full light of Gods word. Sadly many people on here will show that they gave up on the organization because of what they’ve heard about it, which in the end makes them no better than the people they left behind. They’ll leave the organization as broken as it is, only to become willing sheep to idiotic athiest arguments that the source doesn’t even fully understand.
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Idontknowhatodo says:
September 7, 2015 at 2:46 am
Robertperez.. You seem to be a person of Faith in the bible…I am not…and you seem to be very Judgmental of us who have now rejected it…using our critical thinking abilities…and accepted other beliefs…including atheism…I accept your right to believe what you want without belittling your ideals…I think you should show us all that same respect…many of us have gone through painfull experiences to reach our conclusions and come to this site to see we are not alone.
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Excelsior! says:
September 7, 2015 at 4:34 am
Robertperez,
Oh dear! Here we go again!
Can you let me know what are the “idiotic atheist arguements” that have upset you?
Can you please explain this statement:
“Sadly many people on here will show that they gave up on the organisation because of what they’ve heard about it, which in the end makes them no better than the people they left behind”
I have interpreted this comment as stating that people who have left the Jehovah’s Witnesses because they have learnt about the many scandals and crimes, are no better than those still inside who perpetrate those scandals and crimes.
How is that the case? What do you think these people should be doing? What would be your solution?
I hope that you will be able to clarify your statement and answer my questions.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Robertperez says:
September 7, 2015 at 8:58 am
I apologize if your offended, but those are loaded words. Neither those in or out are superior, the only difference is those of us out here have awakened, not from slavery to God, but mental slavery to ursurpers of Christ position as mediator between us and God and their cruel, twisted methods of keeping Christ(not their) sheep in line.
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Excelsior! says:
September 8, 2015 at 5:27 am
Robert Perez,
You are entitled to your beliefs, sir. I am not going to try to change your mind.
I am an atheist, and that is how it is goi g to stay. I have plenty of evidence for my stance, just as you have for yours, sir.
We shall agree to disagree.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
GEM says:
September 6, 2015 at 11:18 pm
1 John 4:18… Perfect Love throws fear outside
Watchtower, like all “Religion”, feeds fear and dread to its adherents.
My own philosophy is the K.I.S.S. principle…..
Keep It Simple Stupid
Don’t throw Faith into touch because You fear men.
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Ted says:
September 7, 2015 at 4:31 am
Robertperez,
Great to get your viewpoint, of which I support 100% your right
to believe in and to express. Your comments show that you
endorse reading the Bible and also the use of critical thinking.
Again I’m with you all the way, I left the JW org, 34 Years ago
and since then have read and meditated on that book over and
over, and in my desire to believe have bent over backwards to
give it the benefit of the doubt. Had I not read it I would probably
have still been a believer.
If only Adam had been endowed with critical thinking skills.
Think of all the cruelty, misery and pain that we could have all
been spared, God himself would have been spared the murder
of his own son, Satan would have been thwarted right there.
Robert, give me a sound reason to believe other than the crutch
of blind faith, which all religions rely on, and I’ll be eternally
grateful. Best wishes Ted.
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Robertperez says:
September 7, 2015 at 8:44 am
My study of the Bible has gone beyond the Bible itself. Sitting in with numerous churches and studying diligently, not only two walls of books on faith( not a single WT amongst), but the origins of many of the worlds faiths and their common denominators amongst them. Thousands of written testimonies of contact with spirits, shared ancient stories of the great flood and the reset of humanity. The archeological evidence that backs up scripture. The working of God himself in those of faith regardless of what brand they push. I’m just waking up and groggy, but the list goes on and on. The point is I’ve also read a lot of the antithesis and there is a lot of undeniable and reasonable theories in evolution. Just as our understanding of our true origins is clouded, though we have a vague picture, there are missing links between everyone’s brain farts on the subject. As it stands there is a book whose explanation is much more reasonable and describes man perfectly, a book that has helped me have a happy, moral and full life. One that has made it abundantly clear to the vast majority leaving the WT (as people with faith) that it in itself guides us through our 70-80 years on Earth. As this is a site visited by people freeing themselves of those who make up the answers as they go along, we are sensitive to people who come on here to push recovering ex witnesses even further away from scripture.
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Lawrence L. says:
September 7, 2015 at 6:47 am
Ted,if Adam & Eve hadn’t sinned,you & I probably wouldn’t have been born.
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Lawrence L. says:
September 7, 2015 at 7:04 am
Children brought up to be an atheist/agnostic will find very little incentive/reason to follow all the good teachings of God/Jesus in the Bible.I shudder to imagine the kind of society we will have….
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Robertperez says:
September 7, 2015 at 8:51 am
It is the only thing keeping the absolute vast majority of humanity from living a survival of the fittest life on Earth. The small and weak would absolutely live under the thumb of not the richest or brightest, but the fiercest and bloodiest. Any doubters of that need only study human history or read up on the real history of nations. The powerful would always exploite the weak, but on a global scale touching all corners of society.
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Ted says:
September 7, 2015 at 9:23 am
Sin and redemption. Another religious scam that’s enabled
them to coil in billions and control the masses by fear.
Given religions record of intolerance and slaughter it can’t be
taken seriously as a model to follow in the matter of morals.
Obedience extracted under the threat of eternal torment or a
fiery death at Armageddon has little or no merit. Gentle Jesus
himself issued this uncompromising gun to head choice.
Are we facing near anarchy without belief in God ? Not at all,
Sweden is 85% atheist yet has one of the smallest homicide
rates in the world. Poverty, inequality, not lack of religious
belief are the causes of crime.
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Robertperez says:
September 7, 2015 at 10:37 am
“From the Protestant Reformation in the 1530s until 2000, the Lutheran Church of Sweden (Swedish: Svenska kyrkan) was the state church. As of 2014, 64,6%[1] of Swedish citizens are members of the Church of Sweden, compared to over 95% in 1970, and 83% in 2000.[4]” and that isn’t counting all the other faiths. A simple fact check proved your numbers false. An agnostic is absolutely not the same thing as Athiest.
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Ron says:
September 7, 2015 at 11:02 am
A great read, and so true. When our 1st stint of my young JW years , those pictures affected me age 7 in 1974. It works so well. The mind control and fear phobias are now so well known about more than ever. Even Clinical hypnosis. Rutherford was a Psychology student who used the model introduced my Freud from Charot in 1914. He stipulated that the meeting format should never be changed. Self reasoning and critical thinking no longer exist after a short while. Fear induced suggestion as well as loaded language works amazingly. I WT know this which makes the existence of this cult ever so much more sickening.
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Ted says:
September 7, 2015 at 11:27 am
RobertPerez, Lawrence L.
Thanks for your comments. I’m sure you’ll agree it’s great
to have Cedars site, where we can engage with each other
without rancour.
Sometimes we agree and sometimes not, but our thoughts
are our own, as it should be, and not someone else’s, as in
the mental straitjacket method of, answering from a paragraph.
The fine articles presented here and the comments of everyone
help us to refine or even revise our opinions and beliefs.
Best wishes, Ted.
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eyes opened says:
September 7, 2015 at 12:35 pm
Hi Ted,
I agree it’s great to have this site. My beliefs have undergone a lot of revisions. Some are not exactly mainstream either. This is a place I feel safe expressing myself.
Best Regards
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Robertperez says:
September 7, 2015 at 12:48 pm
Agreed
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Excelsior! says:
September 8, 2015 at 7:32 am
Ted,
Great comment! I couldn’t agree more. It’s so refreshing to be able to agree to disagree.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Baby says:
September 7, 2015 at 11:44 am
it is the Bible that speaks of the destruction of ungodly men. it is not an imagination of WT
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anonymous says:
September 7, 2015 at 1:59 pm
Baby, yes you are right and religions can use either the threat of being burned in hell or being killed at Armageddon to make people conform and support that particular religion. They all think they have the “truth”. That is because they only hear their side of the story.
Armageddon or hell fire are great tools tools, used by an awful lot of “Christian” religions. The thing is though, do people really need an organization or just the Bible?
Every church can interpret the Bible however they want to make the people afraid of not going to heaven when they die (or being destroyed by God at Armageddon) and the Watchtower is just like all the rest.
The only difference between those other religions and the Watchtower is that the Watchtower is organized to accomplish the work with eight million followers and so to all Witnesses, to them that proves it’s the only one true religion, doesn’t it?
They brag about it and that is supposed to prove to them that it’s the “truth”. But, that doesn’t prove anything, the fact that they are organized.
The proof in the pudding is, is what they are preaching really in the Bible or not? That is the most important thing. Not that they all preach the same message.
The message has to be from the Bible and if it’s from the Bible, then it wouldn’t be changing every time the wind blows in a different direction. God might work in mysterious ways, but that isn’t one of them.
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Robertperez says:
September 7, 2015 at 3:04 pm
The Bible is pretty clear in Chapter 18 of Deutoronomy on how to go about identifying false prophets.
“‘If any prophet presumptuously speaks a word in my name that I did not command him to speak or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 However, you may say in your heart: “How will we know that Jehovah has not spoken the word?”22 When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then Jehovah did not speak that word. The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him.’
And we don’t fear them, time after time after time, they have given false prophecies and then twisted scripture in order to intimidate the not completely brain dead. Those were the closing words of the law in Moses time, but Christ himself in Revelations 22:18-20 in
the closing words of the Greek scriptures gives a more serious warning to people who presume to amend to what is written in the bible or dent what is written in it.
“I am bearing witness to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; 19 and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things that are written about in this scroll. 20 “The one who bears witness of these things says, ‘Yes, I am coming quickly.’” “Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.”
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anonymous says:
September 7, 2015 at 4:52 pm
I am not saying that the Bible is something I believe in but what I am saying is that if the Watchtower uses as it’s “constitution” as Geoffrey Jackson said at that hearing, then the religion should be backed up by the Bible. If not, then it’s claim to be a “Christian” religion is bogus.
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Excelsior! says:
September 8, 2015 at 7:36 am
Baby,
Welcome back!
The bible does indeed speak of the destruction of ungodly men.
The difficulty is that people disagree as to what being “ungodly” is!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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Bret says:
September 7, 2015 at 3:46 pm
The nice thing abou this article is that it can help more than just Jehovah’s Witnesses, it can also help those from other religions who use fear doctrines i.e. Hell fire, end of the world, so on and so forth. All religions use fear phobias to control the masses because quite frankly there is no other way to control and that’s exactly what man likes to do “Control”.
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Catalina says:
September 7, 2015 at 4:19 pm
Robert Perez, I agree with you about my family not doing a good job at using their critical thinking skills. I’m very thankful for JW Survey. You guys are awesome. It’s taking me a long time to get my head unscrambled. Sometimes it’s like I know something without knowing it. I like James Strait article about how they use fear. My brother’s daughter (my niece) confessed to adultery and is now in good standing. My brother compares my niece to King David and Moses. My sister wont associate with her. My brother says anyone who doesn’t want to associate with her would have been swallowed up by the ground during bible times like in Moses day. My brother isn’t speaking to me because I called CPS (children protective services) on my niece for giving her nine month old baby red wine undiluted and beer from a beer bottle every day. We argued about it so I went to two elders for help. The elders told me ultimately it is her responsibility on how she raises her children. I called CPS. I’ve seen her six year old with slurred speach and staggering. My brother and his family aren’t speaking to me. I feel terrible. I have bad dreams. I would have felt worse if I had done nothing. It’s interesting my brother likes to say during bible times the ground would have opened up and swallowed anyone rejecting her.
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EverydayExplorer says:
September 8, 2015 at 7:24 am
Catalina, for what it’s worth, I’m sure you did the right thing in calling the CPS. (I had to do a similar thing many many years ago, but was fortunate enough to have been able to insist on my identity being withheld.) Sending you my best wishes.
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Excelsior! says:
September 8, 2015 at 7:39 am
Catalina,
Madam, you have my sincere sympathy.
You did the right thing by calling child protection services. That took courage and you should be proud of yourself.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
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JBob says:
September 7, 2015 at 6:13 pm
Great article Mr. Strait. I find it ironic that the Watchtower blames those suffering anxiety and panics and phobias with needing more prayer and spiritual grounding. I recall sitting in a KH after coming to a realization that I was sitting in the middle of a cow pasture being served up as chocolate mousse and having a huge anxiety attack every week when the deceptions started spilling off the platform and the pages of the Watchtower.
The panic attacks ceased when I left, they returned when “kind” relatives insisted on dragging me to special talks and assemblies for revitalization (years ago). After unlocking the confidence in my ability to critique and reason, those attacks no longer occur if I stumble into a KH or browse the lit–it’s replaced by righteous frustration and anger that is no longer repressed.
I think at some point, in addition to the failed projections and outrageous statements from the speakers and publications, I realized this “boogeyman” was fake because of the popular practice of writing about something that is evil, yet the Watchtower’s own practices and structure placed it squarely in the same ballgame.
What this boogeyman phobia can do is generate some truly bizarre conspiracy theories or theories that changes within a denomination are satanic attempts to undermine the “true church” (this was used to “witch hunt” in the 1980’s–blaming the disastrous growth rate after 1975 failure on “the evil slave” among us).
It gives a canned response for any perplexing issues that take research, investigation and deep-thought solutions. Which leads us to the lazy JW syndrome, that syndrome of being thankful one doesn’t have to dig deep and research for the “facts” of the Bible or what has been hidden by the “corrupt churches”. What I’m finding is that if someone were standard Christian and not really digging in deep to understand faith icons and symbols meant, odds are they are similar as a JW. So, the nuances that we see, they really don’t see or understand. They only know to look at the clock on the wall and see 2:30pm not “how” the clock was made, or interest to take the back cover off the clock. To stretch this analogy further, they’re not bothered to compare their clock to a standard time measurement to determine if its ‘on-time’ or ‘off-time’. Think a sane person would want to know how decisions affecting their life are being reached, backing and reasons.
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EverydayExplorer says:
September 8, 2015 at 7:19 am
JBob, your thoughtful words will give such encouragement to people reading JWsurvey who may well now be experiencing such disabling panic attacks as they start to acknowledge that inner voice of ‘something really not right’ within the JW faith system.
I respect your openness and compassion.
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ScotWm says:
September 7, 2015 at 7:25 pm
While we are on the subject of fears, the Watchtower Governing Body appears to be fearful of losing even more of its remaining membership. JW Broadcasting for September 2015 has a 12 minute introduction which attempts to explain away the many problems associated with the new overlapping generation teaching. This is the generation that Jesus said would not pass away before the great tribulation began.
With absolutely no scriptural proof, Governing Body member David H. Splane says that 1914 is the year that saw the invisible return of Jesus and that this event could only be seen by Watchtower leaders who were of the anointed class. He then rattles off the names of a number of dead anointed Governing Body members who recognized the 1914 sign. Dead Governing Body members who came after the first group are then are claimed to be contemporaries of generation that recognized the sign. This teaching explains how the generation that saw Christ’s return can still be with us 101 years later and counting.
To top it all off, 9 minutes into the video, Splane produces a chart which illustrates “This Generation.” This chart explains how current latecomers, such as Splane and his fellow anointed Governing Body members, can claim to be part of the 1914 generation of which Jesus spoke. The only proof that we have that these seven members of the Governing Body are anointed is their word — which lately, doesn’t appear to be worth much.
From its start, this whole overlapping generation teaching has been a major stumbling block to those who still want to believe that the Watchtower is God’s visible earthly organization. Apparently, the Governing Body feels that having this false doctrine reiterated by an anointed Governing Body member will have a positive effect on those who harbor doubts. It’s obvious that the Governing Body fears many of its cult members are beginning to see through Watchtower lies and dishonesties.
http://tv.jw.org/#video/VODStudio/pub-jwb_201509_1_VIDEO
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Robertperez says:
September 7, 2015 at 8:08 pm
Perfectly addressed, enough with the false manipulation of scripture.
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Sister drifter UK says:
September 8, 2015 at 2:13 am
Please someone correct me if I have missed the point or misunderstood David Splane in the September broadcast.
Was he really saying that those anointed before 1992 were of ‘the generation’ and that it’s possible that Jehovah would continue to anoint in future generations and we would read about it in an updated Kingdom Proclaimers book?
I have always understood that there will be 144000 and when they die out the end will come as they will rule in the heavens over the earth.
Why would there continue to be an annointing?
Am I losing my marbles ?
Is it my age ?
Have I drifted so far everything is blurred?
Your comments please.
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anonymous says:
September 8, 2015 at 3:44 am
Sister Drifter, yes, he said that Jehovah could continue to anoint in future generations. You are not losing your marbles. What I found interesting too is that he was talking about Fred Franz being alive at 1914 (crucial date) and saw the sign (invisible) and those who lived in that generation (contemporaries) (1914) were not going to pass away before the great tribulation. What I don’t get is how can people see something that is invisible????
His explanation was as clear as mud to me but it has to be like that for the rank and file to buy it. They will just think it’s over their heads and trust that the Governing Body wouldn’t lie to them to string them along.
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Garrett says:
September 8, 2015 at 5:12 am
Anonymous,
David Splane had a real task on his hands. Trying to explain the unexplainable and trying to defend the indefensible . It looked like a fire man trying to put out the fire of London with a squirt gun. These guys know they are in serious trouble . I bet they just hope they die soon so they can make a hasty exit and leave someone else with the truck load of manure called “doctrines” for them to sell to the public as gold nuggets .
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Bret says:
September 8, 2015 at 10:18 pm
I have long been asking the same question, “How can anyone see something invisible”?
I have another question with regards to an invisible presence. What about the two witness rule? Where are the TWO witnesses for this parousia?
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Robertperez says:
September 8, 2015 at 6:08 am
It’s whatever the flavor of the week is, with loaded language as to confuse the unedumacated masses that fall for this. How hard is it to simply admit “we don’t know, we will wait on God as his son instructed. We will study Gods word together and wait on him to act as long as it takes.” Oh and the child abuse, mental abuse, abuse of power, abuse of Gods word, so on and so forth.
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ScotWm says:
September 8, 2015 at 11:25 pm
RE: “JW Broadcasting for September 2015″, Sister drifter UK says: “Please someone correct me if I have missed the point or misunderstood David Splane in the September broadcast.”
David Splane is preaching to the choir. His explanation of the ever-expanding generation that would not pass away until the start of the great tribulation was intended to strengthen the faith of current cult members who may be questioning the validity of this core Watchtower teaching. The overlapping generation teaching claims that there are actually two generations; the first generation that recognized the sign of Christ’s presence and the second contemporary generation that overlapped the first generation.
The Watchtower’s 1914 date is carved in stone and cannot be changed without totally upsetting the entire Watchtower theology. The passage of time has totally invalidated the 1914 doctrine, so the “anointed” members of the Governing Body will need to tell bigger and bigger lies. They must keep trying to convince their followers that they are part of the generation that Jesus said would see all of the signs of his return and not pass away before the great tribulation.
RE: Sister drifter UK says: “Was he really saying that those anointed before 1992 were of ‘the generation’ and that it’s possible that Jehovah would continue to anoint in future generations and we would read about it in an updated Kingdom Proclaimers book?”
Fred “Stay Alive ’til ’75” Franz was Splane’s example of an anointed Watchtower leader who recognized the sign of Christ’s presence in 1914, but who’s earthly course ended in 1992. Splane said several times that some of these anointed 1914 observers may have lived beyond 1992. However, Splane also warned that contemporaries of Fred Franz, such as himself and his Governing Body accomplices, are getting up in years, so the great tribulation is close at hand.
In view of his previous statements on the matter, it is difficult to understand how Splane could envision non-contemporary anointed ones being needed on a paradise Earth after he and his current so-called contemporaries are gone. And of course these anointed ones appointed after the great tribulation would put a strain on the Watchtower’s maximum 144,000 of anointed ones.
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James Broughton says:
September 8, 2015 at 2:35 am
Back in 1981 the Watchtower wrote “Persons who make themselves ‘not of our sort’ by deliberately rejecting the faith and beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses should appropriately be viewed and treated as those who have been disfellowshiped for wrongdoing” (15 Sept). If that is not mind control then I do not know what is.
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Ted says:
September 8, 2015 at 5:15 am
So JHVH could keep anointing future generations, Scriptural Proof
anybody ! Give us a break ! Your just priming your worshiper’s
for an indefinite protraction of the generation fail. You should have
called it, not the “Overlapping” but the “Elastic Generation”,
One huge problem though, the elastic snapped about 50 years ago.
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Robertperez says:
September 8, 2015 at 6:11 am
Elastic generation- I want a t-shirt
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eyes opened says:
September 8, 2015 at 6:23 am
Since we’re talking about overlapping generations, why didn’t the “7” pick Methuselah? He overlapped with Adam and Noah, haha. As far as future anointing… The scriptures indicate that anointing was associated with something visible or audible, I.e. rushing stiff breeze, tongues of fire or speaking in tongues. They did not have to just accept someone’s word. The “gifts” ended when the last apostle died. I suspect anointing for heavenly life ended then as well. It’s a thought.
Best Regards
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Robertperez says:
September 8, 2015 at 7:33 am
The miraculous gifts definitely ended with the last of the apostles, only those whom they placed their physical hands on could recieve it. We keep in mind that we are created in God the creatirs image, each and everyone of us. Our brains being our greatest gift from him. This remarkable gift capable of reasoning, logic, love, sence of justice, to scientifically observe and figure out everything around us and improve on it through our own ability to create is obviously part of his plan. Through our own God given gifts we will evolve, not just technologically, but in our principles and as humanity as well. This same gift is the one that screams run the other way when others try to stifle these God given gifts. In the case of the WT it is easy to just study up on lie after lie after ridiculous lie and just smile towards our future under no man, but our creator alone. I think ill visit the planetarium today.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 8, 2015 at 8:38 am
OH DAVID SPLANE!! As Matthew was talking about ‘THE GENERATION ‘ . WHY NOT USE A SCRIPTURE FROM The Book of MATTHEW???? SAY MATTHEW Chapter ONE verse 17. Where it says 14 GENERATIONS from ADAM to DAVID! Then 14 GENERATIONS from DAVID to the Deportation to BABYLON! Then 14 GENERATIONS from Deportation to Babylon to CHRIST !!! So Matthew describes a Generation perfectly which is the LIFETIME of a Person of that time period! Which in Jesus time was approximately 37 years from 33 C.E when Jesus uttered these words to 70 C.E. When Jerusalem was destroyed !
Even today most commentators will say a Generation is approximately 30 to 40 years !!
IF GENERATIONS OVERLAP then that is TWO GENERATIONS Especially when you are Talking of two 90 Year olds Overlapping like Fred Franz & Brother John Booth who died in 2010!! IT IS UTTERLY RIDICULOUS,But the F&D Slave have tied themselves into a Corner because if the System carries on for another 20 years then NEW LIGHT will have to Occur!!
Reply
OlderandWiser says:
September 8, 2015 at 9:54 am
My study of Jesus’ words indicate as you stated they applied to the generation he was speaking to and the destruction of Jerusalem fulfilled most of his words. It is entirely possible that his return to the earth was entirely separate and would come at a later time not linked to earthly Jerusalem…wouldn’t it seem logical that Jesus began reigning as King as soon as he was resurrected and has been “present” since then – NOT since 1914. If anyone knows world history all the things Jesus foretold have been going on for the past 2000 years and haven’t gotten worse just since 1914 in fact, overall historians say people are better off now than ever before. There are many statistics to back this up.
Reply
anonymous says:
September 8, 2015 at 11:30 am
Pickled, Splane was saying there were other things mentioned in Mathew 24 but he conveniently left out some of the other things mentioned in the context were that going to be false Christs and false prophets and rumors of wars and not to pay any attention to that and also nobody knows the day or hour, not even the son. Those things Splane never mentioned.
The song at the end about “smiling” is insulting. It’s like as long as you smile at somebody, you have done your good deed for the day. What about actually lifting a finger to help them out instead? No, the smile is supposed to lead to a conversation about the “Organization”.
I was always told that to give of my time to preach was more important than anything else like charity because it meant that they would get everlasting life which was a far greater gift to give to them. What it was really though, was a way out of helping people out with any kind of real charity or kind deed. That song was insulting to people who need any kind of real help. After all, for a person to “smile” doesn’t take any work and the motive behind the smile was to get a way to start indoctrinating them and make them think they might have a friend in them.
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 8, 2015 at 6:04 pm
@Anonymous . I Agree & now I don’t give Anything in the contribution boxes for the last year! I now Give Money to PROPER CHARITIES such as HOSPICES!!
Bret says:
September 8, 2015 at 10:31 pm
To go along with that Job 42:16 says Job lived another 140 years and saw four generations of children and grand children. 140 divided by 40 = 35 yrs each generation. The Watchtower used Joseph and his brothers as an example of an overlapping generation but Joseph and all his brothers were born in Paddan-aram over a period of less than 14 years apart minus length of pregnancy and there is a difference at most of 13 years from Ruben (Oldest) to Benjamin (Youngest). That’s typical of any big family and is much different that Franz to Barr gap in age…
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 9, 2015 at 11:30 am
Watchtower Publication, after nothing happened in 1914- The Time is at Hand; 1915 pg 235
“As in the type that date three and a half years after the death of Christ marked the end of all special favor to the Jew and the beginning of favor to the Gentiles, so we recognize A.D 1881 as marking the close of the ‘High Calling’, or invitation to the blessing peculiar to this age to become joint heirs with Christ and partakers of the divine nature.” I doubt anyone calling themselves annointed today were around for that 1881 cut off.
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← Following the “Return to Jehovah” release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
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Posted on September 5, 2015
Fear plays a powerful role in cult indoctrination
Fear plays a powerful role in cult indoctrination
If I lay a plank across two overturned buckets, it should be simple to walk across it unharmed. If I take that same plank, however, and suspend it across an extremely deep and narrow chasm the walk across would be an entirely different experience. Even through both walks would be the same physical demonstration, mentally and emotionally they are dramatically different.
This is because of the way fear works in the brain. It has a tendency to overpower our logical faculties and, at times, create the very circumstances we are so fearfully avoiding.
When walking across a bridge over a deep chasm, for example, it’s best to avoid even looking down. Simply looking down could induce paranoia and compromise your ability to balance. Looking straight ahead and focusing on the task at hand is the best way to get safely across.
Jehovah’s Witnesses exist in an environment where fear is a prime motivator. In their world view 1914 marked the year when the earth was invaded by wicked spirit creatures cast down from heaven in huge numbers. They see the entire world population as deceived by those powerful spirit beings and on the path to a painful death that will bring about eternal destruction. Many do not challenge this narrative because doing so would immediately induce a state of fear and mental pain.
They claim that the only means of survival from these superhuman foes is in the protective arms of “God’s organization.” Only by listening to and obeying the information that comes out of “God’s channel” can you defeat the invisible demon hordes that allegedly riddle the planet.
Fear supply and demand
When attempting to market a product it is highly effective to convince customers it will save them from some looming catastrophe. Once you do that it is much easier to get them to make a commitment. Fear sells.
In the May 2015 JW Broadcasting episode hosted by Stephen Lett, a JW man recounted his experience as a child when he encountered one of the Watchtower’s books:
“When I was six years old my aunt, who’d just become a witness, she showed me this book. And there is a picture inside I remember so well: it’s of Armageddon. That scares a little kid, I thought, ‘I don’t want to be there.’ But a few pages later there’s a picture of a paradise. I never forgot it and I wanted to be there someday. So I thought, maybe my aunt has something. What have I got to lose? So I called them and said, ‘send over some witnesses.’”
This man’s experience aptly shows how Jehovah’s Witnesses successfully use fear to market to young and impressionable minds. First, he was subjected to a grizzly image of a child falling to her death. Then, once he is genuinely terrified of a painful divine execution, he’s shown a paradise earth. The fear-based marketing strategy was a total success and resulted in a life-long member.
Details from page 209 of the 1958 book "From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained"
Details from page 209 of the 1958 book “From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained”
The May Watchtower “study edition” has a duo of articles that follow the same exact pattern. The first article is all about how Satan and his demons are extremely powerful, cruel and malicious. They have the entire world in their hands and it’s impossible to face them alone. The very next article then quells the fear by asserting that success is possible by following it’s guidance.
The boogeymen
The May Watchtower mentioned above begins with the statement: “At one point in time, he [Satan] enjoyed a fine standing with Jehovah.” The statement alludes to a concept often repeated by Jehovah’s Witnesses on the podium and in their literature. They tell the story of how apostates come to be, and it often begins with someone who was a model religious figure; someone who was well respected.
The next sentence goes on to say that, at some point, Satan began to desire the worship of humans which sent him down the path of evil and enmity with God. It’s common for Jehovah’s Witnesses to accuse ex members who are activists as seeking glory for themselves. The way they describe the personality of apostates is reminiscent of the way they describe God’s greatest foe: Satan the Devil. They are clearly drawing a parallel.
Activists who expose the Watchtower have to deal with a constant stream of slander and disinformation. They are consistently misconstrued as power-hungry maniacs who are seduced by the Devil into campaigning against the faith of “God’s people.” Apostates are the boogeymen and are to be avoided at all costs.
The May article makes sure to tell readers that, without divine help, there is only failure in the fight against the Devil and his minions:
“Never underestimate the power of such wicked angels or that of ‘the ruler of the demons.’ Without help from Jehovah, we could never win our fight against Satan.”
This narrative helps retain membership, because it uses the idea that if you ever leave you’re basically demon fodder. In the world of the Watchtower, if you ever leave your peers will consider you someone who has willingly embarked on a suicide mission.
Phobia Induction
Destructive cults use phobias to control people and create dependency.
It’s similar to the way substance abuse works. Once addicted, a person will not be able to see themselves in a substance-free life. The very prospect is just too terrifying, because they have developed a severe dependency. Similarly, members of cults are guided into believing that without the aid of the cult only failure and misery await. This makes the first steps of leaving extremely difficult, which ensures that many will simply give up and stay.
In the beginning of my awakening, about 6 years ago, I sat down at my computer and used a search engine to research Jehovah’s Witnesses. I remember experiencing intense fear when I read through the results, because many of them were obviously critical of the religion. I distinctly remember my hand trembling as I moved my mouse and clicked on a link.
This is a perfect example of how my past religion induces phobias in its membership. I was extremely afraid of a website written by someone critical of the Watchtower. I had been conditioned to believe that anything critical was written by evil, power-hungry drones of Satan. It was quite some time before I was able to get past that entrenched fear and really start looking into the religion honestly.
Frankly, leaving was the best thing that ever happened to me. It enabled me to start a whole new life unencumbered by past irrational fears. Life is difficult enough without adding on unnecessary anxiety brought on by fears not based in reason or evidence. Looking back, I can safely say that nothing Watchtower predicted took place. It was all just a bunch of fears that were put into me instead of originating within me.
If you or someone you love suffers from irrational fears brought on by cult indoctrination, there are resources available to help. There are also many people out there going through the same experience in various stages. We are not alone and the feelings we experience are a natural occurrence of the undue influence we were subjected to.
Recovering from cult indoctrination is an incremental process and involves a sizable amount of perseverance. Let’s walk across this chasm safely and together. Just try not to look down!
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← Following the “Return to Jehovah” release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
124 Responses to Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
← Older Comments
A Patient Man says:
September 8, 2015 at 12:42 pm
Hello, I am a first time contributor! I work hard at being a patient person, I think I inherited this quality from my father, a quiet man but very strict. Like many of you I was raised as a witness, there was not much praise at all from my parents for a job well done, but there was plenty of discipline either with the hand or a belt, and also plenty of restrictions from doing stuff that kids like to do. Thus begins the cycle of fear. And then comes the intimidation and guilt. These three things, fear, intimidation, and guilt were used quite skillfully by my parents and others in my life that had more responsibility or power over me, and quite honestly I had very little power and responsibility. I am using my patience to slowly remove myself from this element of fear within this organization. I still have some elderly members of my family that I am caring for and that includes taking them to assembly days and other meetings. This brings me to a story which will illustrate how fear is used by many. At an assembly day I was quietly sitting during a break and close by a father was disciplining an eight or nine year old boy. This is what this father said to this youngster and I will never forget it, “Jehovah is not very happy with you today”. It is tough enough to be a kid today and now you have the greatest personage in the universe mad at you! So the cycle of fear begins for this young man, if it hadn’t already. How many hundreds of thousands of people can repeat this story from their youth including myself? It is for this reason and a hundred other very good reasons that I will eventually be completely gone from this madness, a quiet patient man.
Reply
Garrett says:
September 8, 2015 at 3:35 pm
To patient man,
RUUUUNN!!!!
Personally I’d leave like the house is on fire but that is me.
Congratulations on your first post and welcome from all of us.
Best wishes
Garrett
Reply
Catalina says:
September 8, 2015 at 10:06 pm
Welcome Patient Man, From what I read from your post I believe you have a lot of love in your heart. That’s why In the long run I think you’ll have peace after your loved ones are gone. I also think you sound unselfish and intelligent. I’m learning my family is mindless. I don’t want to lose my sister so I keep her happy. I attend meetings so I wont be shunned. She shunned me for 21 years until I returned to meetings. I want to have family.
Reply
Jake says:
September 8, 2015 at 12:45 pm
Boy is Splain creepy or what. Glad I didn’t have him as a babysitter!
Reply
Catalina says:
September 8, 2015 at 1:55 pm
At the beginning of the September video brother Splane said a baby who lives for ten minutes after birth isn’t apart of a generation. If brother Splane was really an anointed one by God he wouldn’t say that. His reasoning isn’t right. The GB make up these things as they go along.
Reply
anonymous says:
September 8, 2015 at 3:42 pm
Something else that was so insulting about that talk is that every single one of those “faithful” anointed were all men. Not one single anointed female????
Reply
Pickled brain says:
September 8, 2015 at 5:59 pm
@Anonymous. YOU ARE SO RIGHT ! Where is their a mention of FEMALE ANOINTED JOINT HEIRS with Christ? The GB Are 7 MALE SEXIST Organisation keeping poor women in subjugation just used for pioneering to increase Baptised ones who can DONATE MORE for Their LUXURIOUS PROPERTY & PUBLISHING EMPIRE!
Reply
ScotWm says:
September 8, 2015 at 11:53 pm
RE: “Something else that was so insulting about that talk is that every single one of those “faithful” anointed were all men. Not one single anointed female????”
The Watchtower’s Silver Sword bible says in Judges chapter 4, verse 4:
“Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time.”
If a woman could be a prophetess AND a judge of Israel, it is obvious that the Watchtower has not shown women proper respect.
Reply
Ted says:
September 8, 2015 at 6:02 pm
People generally adopt the beliefs of the community they live
In. Ghana for instance is steeped in spiritism, people born
disabled are thought to be sent by bad spirits and there’s
money to be made by the usual frauds claiming the power
to cure these poor unfortunates.
Again with the usual predictable failure. In the end the sick
children are “sent back to the spirits” which involves ritual
killing, which also costs money.
A far cry from the JW community you may say, well not all
that far. A woman in our cong, territory contacted in the door
work who suffered from schizophrenia was told her illness
was caused by the demons, She was so distressed she sent
for the police, and the circuit o, had to be called to try and
soothe the situation. And that wasn’t an isolated incident.
True it was the fault of individual brothers, but we know the
grip that demonology has on the JW worship’ers , how it
controls their mind, and holds them in fear.
Reply
Wip it says:
September 8, 2015 at 6:10 pm
We now have efpos machines (terminals) at the assembly hall, once back at the KH a brother was joking and asking when are we going to get them, i laughed & said how close are we to passing the plate?
Reply
Wip it says:
September 8, 2015 at 9:28 pm
I started having real doubts when the new teaching of the generation came in, as i was one of those who had hoped for the end since 1975, & we all used to try to calculate the length of the generation, then a good friend said had i ever studied 607, outside the org, when i did this through books not the internet then i was really starting to smell a rat, i then read the book, crisis of C, more eye opening, but alas the fear is still their & i have a family & friends who are all in & i don’t want to loose my family/friends, so i have become a fader, this site is great as i can talk & listen to like minded ones, i have seen my Parents die, & WATCH OTHER OLDER ONES DROP OF, at funerals you hear a common comment, are well they didnt get to see the end but they are their now, its up to us to get their too, well i am in my 50’s & guess what the next 20 are going to come & go fast. thats if we don’t get sick, the elders here are all older men, no new blood is aloud into this club, so they need to change if they want this to continue.all i know is this, Jesus was not talking in riddles, he said generation not plural, & God is not cruel, my mother died a cruel death with cancer & even begging god to help her die.
Reply
anonymous says:
September 9, 2015 at 2:30 am
@Wip it, I remember counting down the months until 1975 and I was so scared but the reason I was looking forward to it is because my JW husband was a wife beater and I was sure Jehovah was going to kill him at Armageddon and then all those people at the Kingdom Hall would know what I was going through at home.
I remember at the time there were so many people flocking into the Organization and the thought went through my mind, why would God kill everyone on earth that wasn’t a JW when if He left it go longer, the whole world would be converted? I made a comment like that and I was shot down like I had committed the unforgivable sin since it was a “Fact” that the big A was coming in 1975. I remember you couldn’t even suggest that it wasn’t coming in 1975 or you’d be shot down. I remember it like yesterday. Then it didn’t come in 1975 and I thought “just like in the days of Noah, any time when you least expect it” and that went on all these years. My husband stopped beating on me, but he’s still not a person I would have chosen, had I known what he was really like “before” I married him.
I also remember in those days that nobody was even allowed to go to vocational school or else you were considered materialistic. If you wanted an office job, people had to take classes through the mail “on the sneak”. My husband tells me that it’s not true and that the Society never said you couldn’t go to vocational school or college and I agreed. Yes, the Society never said you couldn’t go to college or you can’t vote or you can’t celebrate your birthday or salute the flag, but it’s always been in the publications that if you did, you were materialistic or not neutral and so most people went along because it was an “unwritten” rule, just like women not wearing slacks or men wearing beards and shunning and not taking your brother to court.
The Society also discouraged having kids and when we had kids, a lot of people looked down on us but a lot of them followed along with the not having kids and pioneered and they are now old without any family. I feel sorry for them.
When these older people die, they have the slogan “they took the underground route”. The Society has an answer for everything.
It’s been 100 years since Jesus began ruling “invisibly” in heaven and Satan was thrust down to the earth. My question is: If Jesus is ruling in heaven, then why is he allowing Satan to rule the earth????? Is it because Jehovah is patient because he doesn’t want anybody to die? Anybody can take the Bible and use it to spread their religion. Any scripture they want is in there and it’s all fear. That is what kept us in there and it works.
It took me several months of learning about all the lies from the Society to lose that fear. Preaching the Bible might seem like it’s what distinguishes the “truth” from other religions, but the message can’t be lies. If it’s lies, then it’s not the “truth”. So, then what good is it to preach, if it’s not the truth????
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 9, 2015 at 8:59 am
“- Preaching the Bible might seem like it’s what distinguishes the “truth” from other religions, but the message can’t be lies. If it’s lies, then it’s not the “truth”. So, then what good is it to preach, if it’s not the truth? –”
I’m keeping that one, and for the record I will not stop my preaching I will just concentrate on using the bible exclusively without the agenda thumping books or tracts.
Reply
eyes opened says:
September 9, 2015 at 9:57 am
Hi Robertperez,
My husband and I do informal witnessing, Bible only. For obvious reasons it could be a bad idea to go with a group. We too have issues with the literature. If I can’t explain something “spiritual” with the scriptures I’m not going to teach it.
It’s nice to know there are a lot of us in the same boat.
Best Regards
Reply
rob says:
September 9, 2015 at 8:21 am
Control by using fear
Control by using man made rules
Control by using individuals as watchdogs
Control by using shunning
Witness religion has it all worked out.
Reply
Ted says:
September 9, 2015 at 8:52 am
I watched a you tube video, “Family Night at Bethel, with joe and
Barb Anderson.” It featured an interview with Barb’s family and
it was very absorbing. It wasn’t about demonism but there were
a couple of references to it, and from the audiences responses
it was plain the Bethel family believe such invisible malevolent
creatures are working their mischief down here.
There was also an experience involving a “worldly” man who had
given a couple of brothers a hard time but came to regret it as he
began to have many problems in his life thereafter. The inference
was, that this time it was JHVH who was handing out payback.
The audience seemed delighted at that thought.
Here again we see the black and white cult mentality, good= JHVH,
bad= Satan and the demons, if only life was that simple to figure.
My permanent bad lungs tell me I’ve more to fear from invisible
bacteria than obscure and imagined entities.
As many are aware Barb Anderson left the org, that she had given
a great deal of her life to, one of the main reasons being , the
callous mishandling ( My words) of child abuse. She now actively
campaigns on behalf of children. Like many others who have left,
the org, the unjust and cruel sanction of family shunning has been
imposed on her.
Again it’s apparent that “Righteous” men inflict more misery on
people than any invisible demons.
Reply
Robertperez says:
September 9, 2015 at 9:16 am
They went from the well intentioned Russlelites, clueless Rutherford followers to just outright sinister persecutors of those who dare to stand for the truth found in Gods word. I can just imagine these elders faces when they tell Christ, ” we were just following the manual”, and he responds, “which one?” I lay the bulk of the child abuse problem on the elders, who put aside Gods word, his very specific instructions in order to worship at the altar of organizational theocracy. Even in the weekly bible reading of two to three chapters where your supposed to comment on what you found helpful or inspiring it is forbidden and enforced by the elders to use your own words. You are supposed to research an old WT publication and quote what IT says about those chapters. Absolute ursurpers. The programming is intended to dissuade the masses from reading Gods word and resort straight to the WT agendad publications. After decades I am absolutely convinced that the friends are the least knowledgable in Gods word, it has been nothing but a stumbling stone for them when forced to see it through WT goggles.
Reply
Garrett says:
September 9, 2015 at 5:17 pm
Robert. I couldn’t agree more.
If God exists , then the Governing Body are as dead as door nails. They can wash their hands till the skin peels off but the blood guilt and responsibility for all they have done will not come off.
As for the elders, what excuse can they give? Like the Nurenburg trials, as you put it, what defense can they make?
” I was only following orders” didn’t wash with that trial…. And I don’t think it would wash with an intelligent loving creator either. Perhaps they will have a cyanid tablet ready like Goering before the celestial hangman gets him.
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New videos are constantly being uploaded to the John Cedars YouTube channel.
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12 Responses to Videos
KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:
August 25, 2013 at 6:55 pm
With every word they reveal and “impart” far more than they ever intended…
Reply
george says:
August 27, 2013 at 4:45 am
Sorry Cedars, I can only access the first video on my I pad. There are a lot of over sized play icons and they won’t work.
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Luke says:
October 27, 2013 at 5:27 pm
Continue the good work on this site that expose what Watchtower Organization really are — a fanatic end-time driven cult that only serve interests of its leaders. I left this
cult three years ago for good. My only regret is that I had not left the Watchtower Cult earlier! On Easter Sunday this year, I was baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and received into Eastern Orthodox Church, apostolic Church that preserved the Faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
Cedar, you have my blessings of your work on this site that
will yet help millions of JWs to see the truth of so-called ‘Truth’.
Reply
Fred says:
November 2, 2013 at 12:09 pm
Forget taking your numbers from a 1974 yearbook if you question the amount of those killed, interned, etc get the numbers from the Holocaust museum. You forgot to mention the ‘JEWS’ were and its quoted several times in the Watchtower publications as it is related in the bible, “ONCE GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE” but they did not remain that because of their actions. Your quotes from WT publications are based on the latter that they fell out of favour in God’s eyes. They therefor were NOT written in an anti-Semitic nature. Many Jews have become JW’s over the years are they lesser beings because they were of Jewish blood?…ABSOLUTELY NOT! All races are equal so this video in my opinion is twisted in its presentation. Not to mention the ridiculous claim of Rutherford’s so called love letter to Adolf Hitler. No blinders on here, I have checked the facts. Sorry but this video paints an untruthful twist of events and statements about the WT as regards the comments on the Nazi’s and Jews.
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Palma says:
February 28, 2014 at 3:48 am
Hi everybody! Hi cedars!
I found this article about a discovery in egypt that brings light to the origin of story of joseph in the bible.
What do you think?
http://www.davidovits.info/the-lost-fresco-and-the-bible-my-new-book-in-french/
Reply
Idris says:
March 27, 2014 at 8:12 am
Thank you for this page, it has been a great help to me, as I seek the truth of the word of God, however I noticed in the video ‘Does the Bible speak of ‘Paradise Earth’ the speaker quotes Luke 21v43 twice, regarding Jesus word on the cross, there should be a correction note as the verse he mentions is in Luke 23 v 43.
Keep up the good work
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Julia Orwell says:
July 17, 2014 at 3:47 am
Been to internationals before and this elaborate souvenir thing is entirely new. The last one I went to in 2009, the last ones they had, had nothing like this so it’s not a matter of you having not noticed it in the past, it’s a matter of it being a new phenomenon.
I theorize that the wt motives for this involve keeping the masses busy and therefore obedient. Jws would volunteer to do this because there are no other legitimate outlets for creative expression. Armageddon being near has nothing to do with it: it’s about keeping the sheeple busy and happy. Making stupid trinkets is also a team building activity as it involves jws working together, thus reinforcing the herd mentality jws have.
Reply
frankie fernandez says:
February 27, 2015 at 4:44 pm
dear friends I was baptized in 1974. Thank God I am no longer a member of the WT. Free at last and oh what a relief it is. A member of my former congregation who I considerd my best friend molested a minor. There was a big argument amognst the elders on the judicial committee. One elder who was a maverick, wanted to notify the police. But, instead they followed the instuctions of the society. They kept this crime against the child, hush hush. So as not to tarnish the name of Jehovah. But in reality it was a coverup to protect the wt’s reputation. Meanwhile this poor child that was raped has to carry the heavy burden of a victim for the rest of thier lives without compensation and without justice. While the abuser has remaind a member in good standing. The congregation he is attending now has not been notified that he is a sexual preditor.
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Kirtley W. Burggraf says:
March 11, 2015 at 11:16 am
Tell me, since governing body members are elected (replacing someone who dies) at what point do do they become “divinely inspired” or “spirit guided”? Were they always thus in the lower ranks or does this just “happen” the moment that they are appointed? What’s Watchtower’s take on this?
Reply
Alone in MD says:
March 31, 2015 at 6:00 pm
Regards your video on the Memorial Service. I am one of those “non believers” married to a baptized witness. I go to just keep the peace but I’ve made it known that I consider this service one of the worst religious ceremonies that I have ever been to. “Anointed What”. Also it was announced at last years meeting that “this may be the last memorial service”. They are at it again. Thanks for the great videos.
Reply
frankie fernandez says:
May 10, 2015 at 9:50 pm
IF CHRIST WAS ENTHRONGED IN 1914, WHY ARE THE WITNESES STILL CELEBRATING THE MEMORIAL? CHRIST SAID THAT AFTER HIS ARRIVAL NO ONE WAS TO CELEBRATE THE MEMORIAL .ALSO HE SAID THAT THE DAY OF HIS PRESENSE, IT WILL BE LIKE LIGHTNING FROM ONE POINT OF THE EARTH TO ANOTHER. LIGHTNING TRAVELS AT THE SPEED OF 3500 MILES PER SECOUND. SO IT WILL TRAVEL AROUND THE GLOBE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE. HE ALSO SAID THAT ALL EYES WILL SEE HIM. NOT LIKE THE WTS THAT SAYS WE ARE IN HIS INVISIBLE PRESENSE.
Reply
pj wilcox says:
July 31, 2015 at 3:21 am
I watched the latest video of the inept elder being questioned by the commission. Who prepared this man for testimony? You all are aware of the dentist who shot Cecil the lion in Kenya? Well his life is over. He is in hiding. What he did ,did not break laws in Kenya and his is in a world of trouble with public sentiment. But this elder being questioned is far worse. He covered deeds that drove people to think of killing themselves. Should he not go into hiding? Is his life over? Has he know conscience? Emotion, caring? You know the answer. Bet ya, damage control is working overtime on this.
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Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
Inducing phobias: How the Watchtower uses irrational fears to solidify membership
Following the "Return to Jehovah" release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
Following the "Return to Jehovah" release, is the net closing on inactive ones?
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