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Gilead School Changes to be read to all Congregations
by bnybyt 4 years ago 10 Replies latest 4 years ago   watchtower beliefs
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bnybyt
bnybyt 4 years ago

As of this week, and to be read from a letter to all congregations to coincide with the part on WT Education at the Service Meeting, the announcement will be made that the Gilead School will no longer be open to pioneer couples, rather it will become a specialized training school for special pioneers, traveling overseers and their wives, and those the Governing Body deems worthy of attending. The Gilead School has, since it's beginning, always been held in high esteem by the R&F, and seen as a summit to reach for service minded young JW couples.
Could the recent dissentions by 2 Gilead graduates who are actively promoting apostate ideas be influencing changes at how the GB sees the role of the Gilead School and felt the need to shine this noo-light on its "educational" program?

Seems like another cemented pillar of the WT religion is crumbling as the new GB 2.0 tries to keep the ceiling from coming down.
Maybe Kool-aid Man can devote a conference call to this subject :wink:
With Ed Dunlap at the helm of Gilead training back in the late 70's we had the then Governing Body crack down on reformists, could they be trying to forestall more dissention by taking the wind out of Gilead School's sails?

How do you see these changes affecting the school and the overall perception of it by the publishers?
 
Found Sheep
Found Sheep 4 years ago

I wanted to go to Gilead... So glad I didn't though!!! Well I think this has already been discussed but I think you're right too many Gilead students wake up!! They spend a lot of money and time brainwashing them and if it doesn't work they get an educated apostate out of it!!
 
blond-moment
blond-moment 4 years ago

I too wanted to go to bethel and giliad and all that stuff. I too am so glad I didn't, know that I know what really goes on in there.
I totally agree Found Sheep, well educated apostates, oh the horror. However, I find most apostates are well educated, especially in regards to the Watchtower. We know more than most active witnesses about all kinds of stuff, including their own history.
I personally, because I wanted to go, find those experiences from "inside" extremely fascinating.
 
isaacaustin
isaacaustin 4 years ago

Awakened @ Gilead was awakened at Gilead...due to their storng emphasis on the year 1919...and came out an educated 'apostate'....
 
sir82
sir82 4 years ago

Could the recent dissentions by 2 Gilead graduates who are actively promoting apostate ideas be influencing changes at how the GB sees the role of the Gilead School and felt the need to shine this noo-light on its "educational" program?
No.

The problem is that a huge percentage of Gilead graduates don't even last 3 years in their missionary assignments. Shoot, I've heard of some who, upon disembarking the airplane in their new territory, turned right around and took the next flight out! Lots of others played the pregnancy card to avoid a "dishonorable discharge".
It was becoming quite apparent that the school was failing in its intended purpose, to make life-long missionaries. That, combined with malaise and discontent in former JW strongholds led to the re-purposing of the school.
 
TweetieBird
TweetieBird 4 years ago


"Could the recent dissentions by 2 Gilead graduates who are actively promoting apostate ideas be influencing changes at how the GB sees the role of the Gilead School and felt the need to shine this noo-light on its "educational" program?"

I hadn't heard about this...details?
 
Farkel
Farkel 4 years ago

sir82,
: It was becoming quite apparent that the school was failing in its intended purpose, to make life-long missionaries.
As an uninformed outsider these days, I would still agree with your assertion. Dubs are basically people who have these Salvation(tm) cards which get "punched." Pioneers get more punches than publishers. Elders get even more little holes punched in their cards, and missionaries must get a whole bunch of punches in theirs. GB members have so many punches that their little cards are in tatters.
Sooner or later, people wise up and realize that those who punch their cards are just men, and that God doesn't have a thingy that punches cards. God just has a thingy that can tell the difference between the good guys, the bad guys and the posers.
Once they wise up to this, they leave the WTS and take the plane home.
Farkel, ex-Poser CLASS
 
bnybyt
bnybyt 4 years ago


I hadn't heard about this...details?

Tweet'
I think, if I'm not mistaken, both of the ex-Gileadites are members of JWN.
 
Gayle
Gayle 4 years ago

I just heard that the "need is greater" for "Trouble-shooter Overseers" to go to 'problemed congregations' already established.
 
sove
sove 4 years ago

Anybody who has a copy of the letter?
 
Mad Sweeney
Mad Sweeney 4 years ago

They don't need Gilead for pioneer couples anymore because they have set up another "special" "school" for couples. I am thinking "graduates" of that school, unlike Gilead missionaries, will not be a financial burden on the Borg because they won't be missionaries. They'll just be told where to go live and left pretty much on their own to earn their own living. (I'm speculating and would like to see some evidence - BorgLit about both the Gilead changes and the couples school.)
 

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Watchtower Bible School of Gilead in Germany
by freetosee 5 years ago 13 Replies latest 5 years ago   jw friends
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freetosee
freetosee 5 years ago

I was a member of an English-speaking congregation in Germany. Before I started fading a German "branch" of the Gilead School was being set up in the German Branch Office. A long time and well known DO Dietrich Förster was assigned to our cong. in order to improve his English. That was because he was to become the registrator/instructor for the school.
I have never heard mention of the German Gilead School since I left.
Was it ever set up? Is it still there? Have there been schools for missionary training in other countries as well? Has the down-sizing have an effect?
fts
 
brotherdan
brotherdan 5 years ago

In what year did you hear about this?
 
freetosee
freetosee 5 years ago

that was going on in the mid 90ties.
 
brotherdan
brotherdan 5 years ago

I've never heard of anything like this. When I was at Patterson from 2000-2002 I knew a lot of Gilead students that when to the school. There were many European ones as well. I think it is interesting that you MUST speak english to go to the school.
There have been certain branch initiatives, but never in the realm of education. ALL education is done in the states. All branch committee members, regardless of location, will come to Patterson to go through the school. There have been some training initiatives regarding translation, however. When I was at Patterson they trained a group of former missionaires, CO's, DO's, and former bethelites to go to each of the branches and teach them English and how to translate from English.
The purpose of this was because the writing departments style is very "americanized". For example, if an english speaking person was to write about turning the tables on someone, a reader in Africa would not understand the term. If someone was to talk about "rubbing elbows" with another person, non-english speakers would be confused. So they sent these men out to train the branch translation departments in english comprehension.
But as far as I know, there has never been an attempt to set up a Gilead school outside of the US.
 
freetosee
freetosee 5 years ago

The DO couple was not very happy about the assignment due to their age. The DOs wife told me that she complained to the branch overseer Willi Pohle that her husband is to old for that and that they are taking away her husband from her. The branch overseer told her, "Jahovah has not taken anything away from you, Jehovah has given you!"
 
freetosee
freetosee 5 years ago

Thank you brotherdan, but there must have been a definite attempt to set up a school. The DO was with our cong. for a couple of months. He also told me that he was in Patterson and was instructed by Don Adams in preparation for his new assignment.
The school was to be conducted in English.
 
miseryloveselders
miseryloveselders 5 years ago

The branch overseer told her, "Jahovah has not taken anything away from you, Jehovah has given you!"

This made me chuckle.....I guess its all a matter of interpretation.......
 
freetosee
freetosee 5 years ago

The DO wife certainly did not interpret it as being given a wonderful privileges by Jehovah. To me she sounded like they were given no choice.. "Do as you are told and don't complain!"
 
miseryloveselders
miseryloveselders 5 years ago

The DO wife certainly did not interpret it as being given a wonderful privileges by Jehovah. To me she sounded like they were given no choice.. "Do as you are told and don't complain!"

Kind of like everything else in this religion.
 
Nobleheart
Nobleheart 5 years ago

I'm from Europe and I remember hearing of it (around 2000). But I can't recall any other details, except for it being like a Branch of Gilead, and instruction being in English. So i think it did exist, but i'm unsure if it's still running.
 
Nobleheart
Nobleheart 5 years ago

That's what wiki has on this subject:

Languages other than English
The entire curriculum at Watchtower Bible School of Gilead is presented in English. [ 37 ] Beginning in 1980, occasional extensions to Gilead were established in Germany (called "Gilead Extension School") and in Mexico (called "Gilead Cultural School of Mexico" [ 38 ] ) to provide training to student missionaries speaking German and Spanish. [ 39 ]
1.^ 1982 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, page 22
2.^ The Watchtower, June 15, 1982, page 8
 
Nebeska Nada
Nebeska Nada 5 years ago

I know a brother who attended Gilead School in Germany. It was in 1980s.
 
freetosee
freetosee 5 years ago

Thank you for the info, didn't know this started in the 80ties.
I was expecting more training of missionaries, since the wts is experiencing more growth in third world countries.
 
factfinder
factfinder 5 years ago

There is the Watchtower Educational Center in Hawaii for the Pacific. So perhaps there is one too in Germany for Europe? That branch prints most of the literature for Europe.
 

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Feb Kingdom Ministry 2015: Irate Householders - why so angry?
by Trailer Park Pioneer a year ago 29 Replies latest a year ago   watchtower beliefs
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Trailer Park Pioneer
Trailer Park Pioneer a year ago

Feb Kingdom Ministry 2015, Irate Householders, "We don't apologize for our work", "did they hear rumors about JWs"? Why so angry? Blood or Disfellowshipping?
If you want to know how sad the Kingdom Ministry has gotten try reading the KM linked below unless you prefer JW-Links where they don't have your personal info on Adobe Acrobat.  I read the KM and only quote a few sad paragraphs, you can feel their work is dying unless we get total Worldly Chaos or some terrible event creating interest otherwise they provide no value to society!

February 1 2015  Kingdom Ministry

“We’re giving this tract to everyone in the area today. It explains the practical value of the Bible. Here is your copy. [Hand the householder the tract How Do You View the Bible?] Some have wondered if the Bible contains practical advice that can help them on their job. Notice what this verse says about work. [Read Ecclesiastes 3:13.] This magazine outlines some Bible principles that can help us find joy in our work. Would you like to read it?”
How do we deal with angry householders?

Reply with mild and gracious words. (Prov.15:1) Did you wake him up or interrupt him? Although we do not apologize for our work, you could humbly apologize for calling at an inopportune time. Is he angry because of an untrue rumor that he has heard about us? If so, you might say: “I can understand why that would upset you. However, it seems that what you have heard about usis not accurate. May I explain?” Does he object to one of our beliefs, perhaps regarding disfellowshipping or blood? You could say: “I understand. Others have expressed the same concerns. May I show you from the Bible the basis for that teaching?”
If the person is highly agitated, it may be best to take your leave without trying to reply. If he asks that Jehovah’s Witnesses not visit him again, you can assure him that his wishes will be honored..."
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/kingdom-ministry/km201501/




 
Blackfalcon98
Blackfalcon98 a year ago
No experienced or mature publisher would even attempt to disarm this conversation stopper. It is my experience that the apathy within the borg. is so high that if a conversation stopper is thrown, J dubs simply wish the householder well and leave. 
 +3 / -0
steve2
steve2 a year ago

"...it seems what you have heard about us is not accurate..."
With breath-taking superficiality and arrogance, the Kingdom Ministry schools JWs up on how to respond to  householders' critical comments. The instructions throw off all pretence that an intelligently informed discussion will follow.
I'm not surprised that any half intelligent Witness would rather sleep-in on a bed of guilt-tinged nails than tred the streets prepared to utter such embarrassingly facile "arguments" in defense of their increasingly dumbed-down organization.
 +3 / -0
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG a year ago

What Steve said. Also, only the most indoctrinated dub would even dare ask what the untrue rumor is. Even then,they could never defend themselves. The best they could do would be to walk away and take another break.
On the upside, hearing about a "rumor" may lead to TTATT.



DD
 
millie210
millie210 a year ago

The two things they mention (out of so many) are  disfellowshipping  and blood?
What witness could possible defend the DF issue, standing at a door, caught off guard ?
Are they kidding?
A few could make a try at defending the blood issue (its been hammered in to the heads of older witnesses and requires a bit of background ) but there IS no support for  disfellowshipping except in Watchtower world so how could anyone use the Bible standing at someones door to defend that?
This is subtle proof that the people writing this stuff dont actually go "door to door"
 +1 / -0
TerryWalstrom
TerryWalstrom a year ago

The Theocratic Ministry School, back in the old days (i.e. 50's and 60's until the rush toward 1975) was built around this self-same strategy.

What this amounts to is CUSTOMER SERVICE; absorbing and softening the brunt of the objections by allowing the complainant to be "heard." Except, in this instance, no provision is made for any such complaint to be viewed as VALID!
Notice how it is assumed in advance the foundation of any such objection will not have any basis in fact.
What all this amounts to is INDOCTRINATION.
How?
By training the Brothers and Sisters to view objections as a PROCESS instead of a two-way communication or a seeking-after-fact, conditioning takes place insidiously!
Intellectual Honesty: The willingness to be wrong when the evidence goes against your deeply-held beliefs.
The Kingdom Ministry methodology is shadow-boxing by feinting when the punch is thrown and counter-punching with a pre-determined conditioned reflex.
AUTOMATICALLY assuming error on the part of a householder short-circuits the intellectual assessments of the JW in advance.
Objections are emptied of 'content' as to 'fact.'



 +1 / -0
_Morpheus
_Morpheus a year ago

I like your synopsis terry.  It describes very well the process and the reasons.



i find it noteworthy they choose those two particular examples of householder objecrions to our beliefs. I dont ever recall anybody using them on me at a door in my 25+ years as a wt salesmen. I heard plenty of others, but not those specifically, at least not that i recall or made an impression on me.  It leads me to wonder if they are, as terry described, inocculating witnesses in advance from things they see are causing many to doubt and/or leave the org.   I also like millie observation that those writing this clearly arnt at door offen, if ever.



edited to add:  it also makes me sigh inside to see them move a step back towards militant witnessisium with the 'we don't apologize for our work crap'. 
 +1 / -0
jws
jws a year ago

I've been out since the early 90's, but this doesn't seem unusual to me.  Seems to me we were coached for the same types of things.  As Morpheus says, I rarely recall anybody having specific issues like these.  Nobody ever said, "I want nothing to do with you because you don't accept blood transfusions".
As far as the rumor issue.  Could've sworn that's been around too.  Back then we took it as somebody's telling BS about JWs - that they're a cult, that they really worship Satan, etc - and we'll set them straight.

Haven't looked up the rest of the KM, but what you've quoted seems run-of-the-mill to me.
And it may indeed be to prep people for run-ins on things like child abuse.  But there's always been things.  Ray Franz caused a stir.  If I recall, it appeared in Newsweek that he had defected.  So there was expectation that people would be asking about that.

 
OnTheWayOut
OnTheWayOut a year ago
If only they would offer to explain what they called "not accurate. " That would give ample opportunity to reveal TTATT to them. Members will not typically tackle statements about pedophiles or scams or failed predictions.  It just hurts their brains too much.
 +1 / -0
baltar447
baltar447 a year ago

LOL:
unless you prefer JW-Links where they don't have your personal info on Adobe Acrobat.

People, please lets not feed into these idiotic conspiracy theories!
 +1 / -0
BU2B
BU2B a year ago
What galls me is that ANY negative piece of information about WT that could upset the householder must be a wild unfounded UNTRUE rumor.  What if the householder was upset by the recent judgements against the BORG for child abuse?  That is not a rumor, nor untrue.  JWs have not been prepared to address legitimate grievances a householder may have since most JWs have NOT EVEN HEARD of it!  They are so brainwashed they would likely dismiss it as all an apostate lie, even though the court transcripts are available for all!  Jws are clueless about their history as well as current scandals and therefore have no real option but to hang their heads and run from a knowledgeable householder. 
 
OUTLAW
OUTLAW a year ago


Is he angry because of an untrue rumor that he has heard about us?
 So the WBT$ is admitting to a Bad Reputation that`s gone viral in the outside world??!!..LOL!!..
It looks like we are really becoming a problem for WBT$ JW Cult..

   Thanks For The Confirmation WBT$ Dumb Ass`s!..
   






 
AndDontCallMeShirley
AndDontCallMeShirley a year ago

"We don't apologize for our work"
 
In truth, WT has never apologized for anything... ever.
 
 
 +2 / -0
truthseekeriam
truthseekeriam a year ago

Exactly what I was thinking OUTLAW!
They now know they can no longer hide their scandals so instead they tell their members to lie to the householders. What a great way of showing what honest Christians they are.
 
OrphanCrow
OrphanCrow a year ago

The two things they mention (out of so many) are  disfellowshipping  and blood?
What witness could possible defend the DF issue, standing at a door, caught off guard ?
Are they kidding?
and ...
i find it noteworthy they choose those two particular examples of householder objecrions to our beliefs. I dont ever recall anybody using them on me at a door in my 25+ years as a wt salesmen. I heard plenty of others, but not those specifically, at least not that i recall or made an impression on me.  It leads me to wonder if they are, as terry described, inocculating witnesses in advance from things they see are causing many to doubt and/or leave the org.  
I think it is noteworthy.
Both of these examples - blood and disfellowshipping - are 'hot button' issues for many of us who have left the JWs. So, in effect, the WTS is using these examples to identify potential 'dangerous' apostates to the publishers. And, directing the publishers to avoid these dangerous people. Most people who have had no or little contact with the JWs are almost completely unaware of the ramifications of these two doctrines.
The most likely arguments I encountered in field service, so many years ago, were about Xmas, Hallowe'en and birthdays.









 +2 / -0
watson
watson a year ago
All good sales training includes "Down Streaming".  They are just doing some sales training here.  Trying to maintain control in the sales process.
 
OneEyedJoe
OneEyedJoe a year ago


Both of these examples - blood and disfellowshipping - are 'hot button' issues for many of us who have left the JWs. So, in effect, the WTS is using these examples to identify potential 'dangerous' apostates to the publishers. And, directing the publishers to avoid these dangerous people. Most people who have had no or little contact with the JWs are almost completely unaware of the ramifications of these two doctrines.
The most likely arguments I encountered in field service, so many years ago, were about Xmas, Hallowe'en and birthdays.
This is a good point.  I think you're on to something, this is just a warning to avoid apostates and inoculate the R/F by asserting in advance that anything critical of the org is untrue.  If they were looking for an untrue accusation to use (a category that the objection to the policy on xmas, birthdays, etc clearly doesn't fall under) why wouldn't they use the "You don't believe in jesus" line.  I've heard householders say that time and again, and from talking to other JWs, it seems quite common, at least in predominantly christian areas.  Why not use that as an example?
Instead they use two subjects that few JWs can defend, and they certainly can't defend it if the householder presses the matter after they read their scripture.  They also know that no one that raises the blood or dfing issues is ever going to become a study.  It seems like the entire intent was just to say that anything bad is untrue, and to make JWs feel like they're in the right (we don't apologize).  If I had to guess, I'd say probably only about 10% of JWs would actually attempt to defend anything to a critical HH, and those aren't likely to be swayed by anything.  The other 90% are now effectively inoculated with the statement that criticism is untrue, so that once they've run away, they won't think twice about it.  If you're going to attempt to perform such an inoculation, you're certainly better off doing it on the subject they're likely to encounter, assuming the average JW knows about it (why they don't mention the jesus isn't your mediator). 
something else that's notable is that they did not mention anything about the pedophile suits going on - that's probably much more likely to be mentioned by a non-apostate HH.  If their intent was for people to actually defend the org, they'd prepare them.  Instead, it seems that they just want them to run away, and have "untrue rumors" ringing in their ears. 
 +1 / -0
joyfulfader
joyfulfader a year ago

I agree that noting these particular topics is being used to weed out "apostates". It's why I always speak of my aunt who is, in real life, a JW many states away and bring up those topics as questions I have had over the years in her efforts to convert me. I never, ever mention I was ever a witness. I never mention anyone but my aunt and that has encouraged the few that engage with me over those points to applaud me for my "sincerity" and "desire for truth".
I was very good at refuting "conversation stoppers" back in the day but those 2 were tough ones that I did not encounter often and were challenging. I got the blood issue way more than disfellowshipping. I was way too programmed back then to see reason even when they brought up points I couldn't refute though.
 
Bungi Bill
Bungi Bill a year ago

It was always realised that the suggested "presentations" in the Kingdom Ministry were completely irrelevant for the territory our congregation had (i.e. in Logan city, Queensland, Australia). There, angry persons were the rule rather than the exception. The cause of this anger was no mystery, either -  we were covering the territory in less than a month, and people were heartily sick of us.
However, the party line was that "you don't work a territory to death, rather, you work it to life." (I fool you not!). Consequently, whatever conciliatory talk / explanations were suggestedby the WTS, the real issue was never ever mentioned. (Not that your typical Logan City resident - in his singlet and thongs,with a  beer belly spilling over the top of his stubbie shorts - was ever very amenable to reasoning anyway, in this or any other matter).
Bill. 
 
 
Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Billy the Ex-Bethelite a year ago


perhaps regarding disfellowshipping or blood?
Like a JW is going to be able to explain WT's crazy blood fraction policy at the door? Explain how a dub would be DFd for getting red blood cells but not for getting hemoglobin? Albumin is okay, but getting platelets would convene a judicial committee?

 +1 / -0

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Feb Kingdom Ministry 2015: Irate Householders - why so angry?
by Trailer Park Pioneer a year ago 29 Replies latest a year ago   watchtower beliefs
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truthseeker100
truthseeker100 a year ago
Billy I know its crazy. I feel sorry for you wasting the part of your life that you wasted at Bethel.
 
Oubliette
Oubliette a year ago

Maybe they're angry because this religion has destroyed their family or caused a death by their incomprehensible blood policy!



 
WTWizard
WTWizard a year ago

The whole thing is a waste.  And, if they think it's bad in America, I don't know what they expect to do when they are called on to that stupid 2-week trip to Israel this spring.  If the rabbis don't outright throw them right out, they will take the waste of paper and use it to throw black magic on you and/or the whole human race.  Seemed interested, but you get bad luck and major personal problems within a few months to a year and change later.
No wonder they are concentrating on waste of paper drives.  Put a waste of paper in a door or hand one to the householder, move onto the next house, repeat.

 
KateWild
KateWild a year ago

On the upside, hearing about a "rumor" may lead to TTATT.- DD
This is a real potentially good out come. If JWs come to us we can express our thoughts about Dfing or blood and hopefully give them some food for thought.
Sadly most of the JWs in my area know me so I can't really help them that way.
Kate xx
 
Vidiot
Vidiot a year ago

OrphanCrow - "Both of these examples - blood and disfellowshipping - are 'hot button' issues for many of us who have left the JWs. So, in effect, the WTS is using these examples to identify potential 'dangerous' apostates to the publishers. And, directing the publishers to avoid these dangerous people."
Damn; that hadn't even occurred to me.
Good catch.
 +1 / -0
Phizzy
Phizzy a year ago

My memory may not be that good, but I don't remember them ever dealing with the matter of "Irate" householders quite in this way before.
It is obviously a move to close the mind of the JW to the kind of thing that a knowledgeable H.H could throw at a Dub, but DFing and the Blood teaching ? Boy, that really is some inside knowledge !
Us 'Poztates have them on the back foot it seems.
 
sir82
sir82 a year ago

Or, possibly, how about this picture:
A "householder" accepts magazines from the nice old chap at his door on a Saturday morning. He has no idea who the guy represents, or what religion prints the slim little magazines he holds.
But then he notices the "JW.org" on the back page, looks it up, and realizes the nice old chap was a Jehovah's Witness.
He spends 3 minutes reading the JW.org propaganda, realizes it's a snow job, does a Google on "Jehovah's Witnesses", and is hit with a few thousand anti-JW pages. A quick perusal enables him to see the "apostate" hot button issues of blood & DF-ing.
So when "nice old chap" comes back for his "return visit", the "householder" starts asking embarrassing questions about blood fractions and shunning your aged parents, and nice old chap is left speechless & defenseless.
Multiply that by a few thousand times, and get a few COs to include this info on their reports, and shazam - you get a KM article on how to walk away from embarrassing questions.

 
Trailer Park Pioneer
Trailer Park Pioneer a year ago




   Balter, when I downloaded this file it said "Adobe downloading to "TrailerparkPioneer's computer", if your computer has your name or anyone else who uses it, the downloads head to those files.  I will snippet this for you so you can see what I am talking about  Not trying to create a conspiracy, it's a fact your Microsoft Windows 7 or Windows 8 puts your name down on those documents when you register.
 
Trailer Park Pioneer
Trailer Park Pioneer a year ago

However, the party line was that "you don't work a territory to death, rather, you work it to life." (I fool you not!). Consequently, whatever conciliatory talk / explanations were suggestedby the WTS, the real issue was never ever mentioned. (Not that your typical Logan City resident - in his singlet and thongs,with a  beer belly spilling over the top of his stubbie shorts - was ever very amenable to reasoning anyway, in this or any other matter).
Bill. 



  Bill that BS made it's way everywhere, our Territory was once worked every eight weeks but "due to incompetent and inefficient witnessing" as hinted by our past three circuit overseers, the last one I listened to complained "how come you once covered your territory so zealously, the Brothers have lovingly divided your territory twice and your not able to work it in a Year?"



 We got tired of the same old crap, peddling magazines nobody wants to read, is it any wonder our territory is not worked "like we use to?"
 
Trailer Park Pioneer
Trailer Park Pioneer a year ago

  Bill that BS made it's way everywhere, our Territory was once worked every eight weeks but "due to incompetent and inefficient witnessing" as hinted by our past three circuit overseers, the last one I listened to complained "how come you once covered your territory so zealously, the Brothers have lovingly divided your territory twice and your not able to work it in a Year?"



 We got tired of the same old crap, peddling magazines nobody wants to read, is it any wonder our territory is not worked "like we use to?"
 

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Topic Summary
feb kingdom ministry 2015, irate householders, "we don't apologize for our work", "did they hear rumors about jws"?
why so angry?
blood or disfellowshipping?.



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BOE Letter: Re: Our Kingdom Ministry
by pixel 2 years ago 14 Replies latest 2 years ago   watchtower beliefs
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pixel
pixel 2 years ago

You read it here first!
TO ALL CONGREGATIONS
Re: Our Kingdom Ministry
Dear Brothers:
We are pleased to inform you that Our Kingdom Ministry is now available for download
in the public area of jw.org in the “Publications” section. In due course, it will also be available
in Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY. Anyone who desires to receive a copy of Our Kingdom Ministry,
including disfellowshipped persons, may receive one. If you no longer need to receive a
printed copy of Our Kingdom Ministry, please inform the coordinator of the body of elders.
We send our warm Christian love.

PS to body of elders:
Please arrange for this letter to be read to the congregation at the first Service Meeting after
its receipt. Thereafter, it should be posted on the information board.
In some languages, multiple editions of Our Kingdom Ministry are produced for use in
different countries. However, only one electronic edition per language will be available to the
public. If the edition of Our Kingdom Ministry available in the public area of jw.org is not the
edition used in your congregation, you should inform the audience that they will need to continue
to obtain Our Kingdom Ministry from the congregation. For the time being, all editions of Our
Kingdom Ministry will continue to be available for download in the secure area of jw.org.
Additionally, it will no longer be necessary for the coordinator of the body of elders to
receive and distribute printed copies of Our Kingdom Ministry. Rather, the magazine servant
may be provided with a list of individuals who have requested to receive a copy, and he may care
for the distribution at congregation meetings. If the congregation will now need fewer printed
copies of Our Kingdom Ministry, consideration should be given to adjusting the quantity requested
from the branch office.
 
BluesBrother
BluesBrother 2 years ago

I don't know whether to say "Anything to save money !" or
" a progressive step in the right direction"
Either, it is interesting and will be useful - although in the U K we have an edition for Brits.
 
jw07
jw07 2 years ago

Ooops! It looks like too many JWs have been straying on to 'apostate' websites like JW Leaks to download Kingdom Ministries
 
AndDontCallMeShirley
AndDontCallMeShirley 2 years ago

What it means is that the KM will now be so vacuous and general there's no reason to keep it "secret" anymore.
More dumbing down.
 
pixel
pixel 2 years ago

I think is what DCMS said. And to save $ too!
 
Da.Furious
Da.Furious 2 years ago

Thanks Pixel.
@BluesBrother, someone on another post said that the english KM will be global from September. In my experience, i was using the US version from JWLeaks and the only difference i noticed was the stats they publish, all talks and discussions are identical.
BTW, i live in London!
 
clarity
clarity 2 years ago



Wow ...removing something of the mystery ooohhhhh,
ha hahh ... withholding that silly piece of paper held
thousands in the "spiritually weak" group!
Hey, I was there ..........hah!

clarity
 
Jeannette
Jeannette 2 years ago

And who cares?
 
Quarterback
Quarterback 2 years ago

Just wait. Pretty soon we will be able to download letters to the BOE's.
 
sir82
sir82 2 years ago


What it means is that the KM will now be so vacuous and general
"Now"?
That implies that at some point it was profound, or at least interesting. It's had all the depth of a bacteria culture in a petri dish for the past, oh, 6 decades or so.
 
JW GoneBad
JW GoneBad 2 years ago

Are fewer and fewer disfellowshipped seeking reinstatement?
'Anyone who desires to receive a copy of Our Kingdom Ministry, including disfellowshipped persons, may receive one'
When I first read the above I thought...'am I reading this right'! Are the pharisee GB getting a little soft on the disfellowshipped in the 110,000+ congregations? Is this the first of many demonstrations to come of showing a little respect to the disfellowshipped?
Then I realized that the disfellowshipped, once they are disfellowshipped have free reign to do whatever they please and to go wherever they please including visiting competing XJW websites without having to answer to 'Mother'.
Many if not most disfellowshipped are probably finding these XJW sites very friendly, inviting and informative. The internet provides disfellowshipped ones access to everything WT related (including KMs). So why go to a meeting empty-handed, not to mention that once on these XJW websites many df'd ones are getting a real education on how disgusting the WBTS really is.
Question: How do we know that the GB are desperate?
Answer: They're getting soft on the disfellowshipped!
Thank you pixel.

 
jgnat
jgnat 2 years ago

Yeah, the MS used to play "keep away" with hubby, wondering aloud if he was approved enough. Oh, the hoops hubby went through to get his copy of the KM!
 
JW GoneBad
JW GoneBad 2 years ago

The disfellowshipped have not even been worthy of a No-Blood Medical Alert Card!
From the January 1987 KM:
WEEK STARTING JANUARY 11
Song 192
10 min: Local announcements and accounts report. Include report of any contributions sent by congregation to Society for Kingdom work or for Society Kingdom Hall Fund as noted on December literature statement or other statements from Society. Distribute Medical Alert cards. These can be made available to all who desire one, except disassociated and disfellowshipped persons.
What disgusting A-Holes!!!
 
AlwaysBusy
AlwaysBusy 2 years ago

I really don't know what to say, except thank you for the information. I am one of those df'd people. Allowing df'd ones to have a KM? What happened? I've always been treated as if I have Ebola. AND, I've had 2 elder visits within 3 weeks, I didn't know they knew I existed. What's going on?
 
Oubliette
Oubliette 2 years ago



Anyone who desires to receive a copy of Our Kingdom Ministry, including disfellowshipped persons, may receive one.
Well that IS good news!
Now all those poor DF'd people don't need to feel even more humiliated sitting in the KH for the midweek meeting and feeling clueless for the entire Service Meeting.
What a loving God Jehovah the GB is, so compassionate and merciful!
 

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Why is the "Shepherd the Flock of God" book only viewed by Elders?
by I_love_Jeff 3 years ago 15 Replies latest 3 years ago   watchtower bible
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I_love_Jeff
I_love_Jeff 3 years ago

If the Shephard book contains rules taken from the NWT, then why is one held confidential and the other not viewed as such? If the sheep are not allowed to view the Elders manual then they should not be allowed to view/read the NWT.
"The following page shows an excerpt from one of the official letter that was sent to the elders regarding the importance of keeping this book confidential:
(Note: The "Kingdom Ministry School" referred to in the letter is a training program for Elders and Ministerial Servants; the 1991 Kingdom Ministry textbook referred to is the previous version that the"Shepherd the Flock of God" book replaces)"
"Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses August 23, 2010"
"We will leave to each elder to decide what he will do with his 1991 Kingdom Ministry School textbook. If he decides to keep the book, he must make sure it is put in a secure place so that others do not have access to it. Otherwise, the book should be completely destroyed.
We would like to emphasize the importance of keeping these new textbooks secured and confidential, both before and after they are distributed. The textbooks should not be left on tops of desks or in other places where they are easily accessible by family members or other individuals. The information is designed for use by the elders only, and other individuals should not have any opportunity to read the information."
 
FatFreek 2005
FatFreek 2005 3 years ago



 
FatFreek 2005
FatFreek 2005 3 years ago



 
Big Mama
Big Mama 3 years ago

I have offered this before under the topic "Bible Research and Study Articles" on pg 704 of this forum, and I will happily offer it again: If you would like the entire book "Shepherding the Flock of God in your Care" (the 'secret' elders manual) send a PM to me at this site......you must include your personal email address so that I can forward the enitre pdf file to you there. I was quite gratified at the response I had previously, and hope it might be similar this time. Sincerely, Big Mama
 
mP
mP 3 years ago

STFOG must be bible based, so the question is why is it a secret to know these scriptures ?
 
villagegirl
villagegirl 3 years ago

Your creeping me out - I left 20 years ago and this is just getting weirder and weirder - I think whoever has a copy should post it here for all to see.
 
I_love_Jeff
I_love_Jeff 3 years ago

Yes mP that is correct. Sorry for creeping you out villagegirl
 
Phizzy
Phizzy 3 years ago

Village girl, posting a copy here would get the site in trouble, breach of Copyright Law. Big Mamas offer will not.
mP, the clue is in the weasel words "Bible based".
This is a licence to make up any rules and regulations you like, you can then find a scripture that fits, especially by "extending the principle" found in the scripture, if you can't be bothered to do this for all rules, just slip in a scripture that vaguely mentions the subject in hand. It doesn't matter if it is an O.T scripture with only a very oblique connection to the subject, it'll do.
"Bible based" has never meant to the WT what it would mean to the rest of the world reading those words, to the WT it does not mean based on what the Bible actually says, but, to them it means "we can find a scripture that seems to fit most times, if we can be arsed".
The reason they do not want this huge Talmudic Torah of Rules and regulations to fall in to the hands of the R&F is that rules and regs. are "there to be broken" and the ShephErd (big E for those who will put an A in there for some reason,think sheep and herd)., the shepherd book shows exactly what people can get away with and how.
If only the WT had been prepared to learn from Jesus and his simple Golden Rule they could have saved an Amazon Basin full of trees, but the problem is that their Nazi Gestapo like Elders need guidance on every matter as they have had their brains taken over and their conscience stolen.
 
cedars
cedars 3 years ago

This is precisely the point I made in my article...
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/secrecy-and-deception-watchtower-fights-dirty-in-its-war-against-apostates
There is absolutely no biblical reason for any "Christian" religion to have any secret guidelines. The astonishing thing is that the Society has duped generations of publishers into thinking otherwise.

Cedars
 
mP
mP 3 years ago

If only the WT had been prepared to learn from Jesus and his simple Golden Rule t

Jesus was simply repeating Leviticus. He never introduced any new ideas, he always quoted the OT.
 
Phizzy
Phizzy 3 years ago

Yea I know mP, Rabbi Hillel beat him to the Golden Rule too, as did most ancient religions and thinkers, what I was meaning was its wonderful brevity, Christians need nothing more, any breaking of truly Bible principles is covered by that rule.
The problem for the WT is that they wish to impose much more of a "burden" on their adherents, the burden of not questioning any of their B.S for example, which hardly contravenes the Golden Rule.
No wonder upon leaving Ray Franz wrote a book "In Search of Christian Freedom", the WT chains are tight and unyielding, and are locked on by the application of their Rule Book.
 
mP
mP 3 years ago

Phizzy: Rabbis didnt exist until late in the first centiry. Its part of the anachronisms in the gospels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbi
Catherine Hezser The social structure of the rabbinic movement in Roman Palestine 1997 -Page 59 "b – Rabbi as an Honorary Address ...Since Jesus was called "Rabbi" but did not conform to the traditional image of post-70 Jewish rabbis, and since pre-70 sages do not bear the title "Rabbi" in the Mishnah,29 most scholars assume that the meaning and usage of the term "Rabbi" at the time of Jesus differed from the meaning which it acquired after the destruction of the Temple: in pre-70 times, "Rabbi" was used as an unofficial honorary address for any person held in high esteem; after 70 it was almost exclusively applied to ordained teachers of the Law.30 The arguments brought forth in support of the first part of the theory, that is a general address, are as follows: "
 
sir82
sir82 3 years ago

The primary reason, IMHO, why "regular" JWs are not permitted to read the book is, they would know exactly how to escape judicial committees without being disfellowshipped.
Without that knowledge, JWs facing a committee go in "blind" - they are much easier to manipulate and control, and it is less likely that they will "fake" what the elders would consider "genuine repentance".

The key in that book is the section titled "Signs of genuine repentance" (or something similar).
There are a series of 8 or 10 questions which give "signs of genuine repentance", stuff like "did the accused confess, or was he caught?" "Has he apologized to wronged parties?" "Has he prayed for forgiveness?" "Is he more concerned about losing his relationship with Jehovah, or more concerned about losing family & friends?"
A JW who is to face a committee could "study up" on those "signs" and rehearse exactly the answers the elders are looking for. It would be easy to "fake repentance" and then how would the elders know to DF him?
 
alecholmesthedetective
alecholmesthedetective 3 years ago

Seriously, if elders are considered by the Borg to be only 'spiritual shepherds', and not qualified to investigate or evaluate allegations of child abuse on a criminal level, why the hell are they supposed to evaluate the level of repentance of a sinner, especially since they cannot read hearts. No human can.
The justice systems of the most developed lands is not perfect, and yet they hold hearings where the public can attend, with an attorney/barrister and prosecutor, witnesses, judges, jury, etc. Yet, the elders who have no professional training to serve in those capacities are supposed to reach a decision that represents Jehovah's will. And based on their decision you will be shunned for life by friends and family.
 
Heaven
Heaven 3 years ago

Keeping things 'secret' is one method of control.
And as Big Mama points out, the Shepherd the Flock book ain't so secret... at least for everyone other than the R&F JWs. This book has been made available for download off the Internet by a few people here on JWN.
 
00DAD
00DAD 3 years ago

Nothing quite screams cult like secrecy:
Outsider vs. Insider doctrine = WT Public vs. WT Study editions
In JW-land, there are separate teaching for the public and for the members. They often are quite different as has been amply demonstrated time and again on this forum and elsewhere.
It's interesting how the point of this thread shows that this same principle applies to different levels in the organization:
Outsider vs. Insider doctrine = WT Study editions vs. STFOG Elders' Manual
Note this from Steven Hassan's website concerning his BITE model of Mind Control used by destructive cults:
3. Compartmentalization of information; Outsider vs. Insider doctrines

a. Information is not freely accessible
b. Information varies at different levels and missions within
pyramid
c. Leadership decides who “needs to know” what

One of the truly disturbing aspects of the secrecy involving the Judicial process among JWs is that the R&F members are expected to obediently comply with rules and procedures which they could not possibly know.
This is tantamount to signing a blank check. Of course when someone gets baptized they never expect they are going to end up in a Judicial Hearing. But if and when they do, they will have no idea of what to expect nor can they legitimately learn about it without violating published JW rules, something no one under the spell of WT Mind Control would ever do.
Think about this. This gives the elders incredibly power and authority over the lives of the congregation members. They are answerable to no one. The appeal process is a joke; it's a One-Time-Only offer that only covers "mistakes" made in the initial hearing. Even then, a JW only has 7 days to ask for an appeal. If and when someone pleads for reinstatement they have no other recourse than asking a Judicial Committee comprised of members of the original congregation.
I've written extensively about this before. One example is this ironically titled thread:
◦Judicial Hearing Procedures of Jehovah's Witnesses are Bible Based

Essentially a Judicial Hearing conducted according to WTBTS protocol is a Star Chamber.
An accused individual is required to appear before numerous judges against his will. He is not allowed any representation or even anyone to accompany him simply for moral support. He is often not told the charges prior to the hearing, nor is he informed what the evidence is against him or who the witnesses will be. He is outnumbered by both his accusers and the judges. No outside, independent observers are allowed to insure that his civil rights are not violated nor are there any formal, public records kept of the judicial proceedings. All sessions are held in secret , with no indictments , and no witnesses .
He or she stands alone.
The process is in violation the most basic human rights as recognized by enlightened governments around the world. Various rights associated with a fair trial are explicitly proclaimed in Article 10 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which reads:
◦Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.
 

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2011 December Kingdom Ministry & 2012 January Kingdom Ministry-PDFs!
by Atlantis 4 years ago 13 Replies latest 3 years ago   watchtower bible
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Atlantis
Atlantis 4 years ago

Credit goes to Anonymous * * 2011 December Kingdom Ministry-PDF * Click the link in the blue box. * http://www.sendspace.com/file/avzdl1 * * --------------------------------------------------------------- * 2012 January Kingdom Ministry-PDF * http://www.sendspace.com/file/zb7mi9 * * * Atlantis
 
Teary Oberon
Teary Oberon 4 years ago

Yay you are wonderful!

*hugs*
 
factfinder
factfinder 4 years ago

ATLANTIS-
Thank you so very much for sharing these with us!!!!!!
 
Gayle
Gayle 4 years ago

Thank you, Atlantis!!
 
Open mind
Open mind 4 years ago

Marking.

Thanks to Anonymous & Atlantis.

om
 
moshe
moshe 4 years ago

Dec KM tells us when the memorial will be for 2013- hmm, I think the F&DS forgot to proof read their work.
Jan KM- they sure are pushing a lot of brochures/tracts, which they claim are targeted to hundus, muslims, non-religious, secular, Jews, etc. They have a simple plan- ask a leading question (allow for response) and  then ignore response, then dive into your spiel and hope they didn't notice that you never even listened to how they answered your leading question. Pretty rude of them. They pretend to be interested in your opinion, but they are there to sell some gussied up religious dogma that you can easily live without. Beware of smiling salesmen on your doorstep.
-
 
Shrugged
Shrugged 4 years ago

Doesnt seems to be anything newsworthy in this km:s, or have i missed something?
 
factfinder
factfinder 4 years ago

There was a new peak of 1,200,572 pubs in the US in August (Jan.KM)
There is also a question box on who to place literature with. I find it interesting that while it mentions that pubs should be able to obtain the literature they need regardless of their ability to donate, still, all should donate "out of their want". This does not sound right to me.
There is an insert, now called a "supplement" in the Jan km about 12 different brochures to use for specific groups of people.
Thanks again for sharing these kms with us Atlantis!
 
lilbluekitty
lilbluekitty 4 years ago

I can't seem to download them? There are too many download buttons, which one is the correct one? I got some .exe BearShare file??
 
00DAD
00DAD 4 years ago

Thank you!
 
jean-luc picard
jean-luc picard 4 years ago

I just love the way they put in the presentations

[Allow for response.]

in other words, give them a chance to speak.... but dont listen and dont take their view into account.

How patronising
 
Caminante
Caminante 4 years ago

Anyone having Febuary and March KMs please? Either scans or jw.org PDFs... Thanks in advance!
 
Azazel
Azazel 4 years ago

many thanks
 
blondie
blondie 3 years ago

PDF for February 2013 KM yet?
 

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2011 December Kingdom Ministry & 2012 January Kingdom Ministry-PDFs!
by Atlantis 4 years ago 13 Replies latest 3 years ago   watchtower bible
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Atlantis
Atlantis 4 years ago

Credit goes to Anonymous * * 2011 December Kingdom Ministry-PDF * Click the link in the blue box. * http://www.sendspace.com/file/avzdl1 * * --------------------------------------------------------------- * 2012 January Kingdom Ministry-PDF * http://www.sendspace.com/file/zb7mi9 * * * Atlantis
 
Teary Oberon
Teary Oberon 4 years ago

Yay you are wonderful!

*hugs*
 
factfinder
factfinder 4 years ago

ATLANTIS-
Thank you so very much for sharing these with us!!!!!!
 
Gayle
Gayle 4 years ago

Thank you, Atlantis!!
 
Open mind
Open mind 4 years ago

Marking.

Thanks to Anonymous & Atlantis.

om
 
moshe
moshe 4 years ago

Dec KM tells us when the memorial will be for 2013- hmm, I think the F&DS forgot to proof read their work.
Jan KM- they sure are pushing a lot of brochures/tracts, which they claim are targeted to hundus, muslims, non-religious, secular, Jews, etc. They have a simple plan- ask a leading question (allow for response) and  then ignore response, then dive into your spiel and hope they didn't notice that you never even listened to how they answered your leading question. Pretty rude of them. They pretend to be interested in your opinion, but they are there to sell some gussied up religious dogma that you can easily live without. Beware of smiling salesmen on your doorstep.
-
 
Shrugged
Shrugged 4 years ago

Doesnt seems to be anything newsworthy in this km:s, or have i missed something?
 
factfinder
factfinder 4 years ago

There was a new peak of 1,200,572 pubs in the US in August (Jan.KM)
There is also a question box on who to place literature with. I find it interesting that while it mentions that pubs should be able to obtain the literature they need regardless of their ability to donate, still, all should donate "out of their want". This does not sound right to me.
There is an insert, now called a "supplement" in the Jan km about 12 different brochures to use for specific groups of people.
Thanks again for sharing these kms with us Atlantis!
 
lilbluekitty
lilbluekitty 4 years ago

I can't seem to download them? There are too many download buttons, which one is the correct one? I got some .exe BearShare file??
 
00DAD
00DAD 4 years ago

Thank you!
 
jean-luc picard
jean-luc picard 4 years ago

I just love the way they put in the presentations

[Allow for response.]

in other words, give them a chance to speak.... but dont listen and dont take their view into account.

How patronising
 
Caminante
Caminante 4 years ago

Anyone having Febuary and March KMs please? Either scans or jw.org PDFs... Thanks in advance!
 
Azazel
Azazel 4 years ago

many thanks
 
blondie
blondie 3 years ago

PDF for February 2013 KM yet?
 

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new september 2007 Kingdom Ministry Qbox
by patientbrother 9 years ago 43 Replies latest 9 years ago   watchtower bible
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patientbrother
patientbrother 9 years ago

Brothers I absolutely had to join this web site once I saw the new KM for this coming month, has any one else had a chance to view this? I'm absolutely flabbergasted for the first time in my life, what about the the apostle paul and the Bereans? didn't he encourage them to go and find out for them selves the truth? didn't they always go home and search in thier own bibles if the things they were being told were from God? this months Kingdom Ministry makes me so mad, and the real clincher is I brought it up while out in service with one of our elders and he got upset, I know now in my heart that this is Jehovahs way of testing out those who claim to be his servants, I hope and pray there is a elder some where out there that feels the same way and isn't one of these spoken of in the bible who eventually begin to Beat Jehovahs sheep and begin to drink with the spiritual drunkards of the world...... If any one needs a copy of the september kingdom ministry ill post one here, for every one.
 
Kudra
Kudra 9 years ago

Welcome PatientBro,
!!!
I think the q-box you are talking about has been posted here and there is a discussion going about it- I think it is in the last few pages of "Active Topics" (up at top of screen.
I am sure someone will give you a link to it pretty soon.
-Kudra
 
bigdreaux
bigdreaux 9 years ago

first off, welcome. this has been discussed in great detail. you'll learn quickly, we usually find out about stuff way before the witnesses do.
 
garybuss
garybuss 9 years ago

I drank with quite a few Witnesses. One of them threw up beside my bed Saturday night and gave the Sunday public talk wearing dark glasses. That might have been the first 1/2 hour Sunday talk and that was back in 1962.
The study thing is old news. That's been the rule since the purge of 1981. Welcome to the forum.


 
bigdreaux
bigdreaux 9 years ago

here's the thread on it. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/139148/1.ashx
i hope you find it useful. alot was talked about.
 
patientbrother
patientbrother 9 years ago

I just have to let those of you who have already left or just become inactive how incredibly hard it is for those of us that are married with lots of family in the kingdom hall, to leave would be to rip a family apart. its so disgusting at times the things I hear, our PO gave a special needs talk recently about not listening to the things we hear about witnesses, I was hoping he would have the courage to speak about the molestation stuff but he didnt, rather it was a 15 minute damage control part. I have book study tonight and I literally get sick to my stomach when we go over the stuff in the revelation book, my only hope is that one day those of us that pointed out stuff like I did when I was a teen ager about the last generation stuff that we will finally breathe a sigh of relief. I know Jehovah is a patient and loving God but I also know that he gets very angry with those who are supposed to be taking the lead and will hold them to a higher standard and they will be accountable. May Jehovah bless those of you who are not bitter but who are also waiting patiently for the day when his house is truly inspected.
 
bigdreaux
bigdreaux 9 years ago

well, i'm glad to see your eyes are open. alot of people in here are in your boat. this is a great place for information, and help with personal problems.
you'll see that the society is wrong about us. alot of people here have loved ones still in. alot are like me, they love the witnesses, just hate their headship.
 
Mum
Mum 9 years ago

Welcome to the forum, patient. Stick around, and we'll learn a lot from one another.
 
Gopher
Gopher 9 years ago

Patientbro, welcome to the discussion forum! I've enjoyed your first posts.
Has it been your experience that when the organization says "wait on Jehovah", they really mean "shut up about it, we'll get around to it whenever we feel like it, but if you talk too much you'll get in trouble"?
 
moshe
moshe 9 years ago

Welcome patientbrother, you have my sympathy. However, the true heart of a man soon betrays him to his brothers. Plan well, execute well, friend. You will get lots of ideas on how to get out of this KH mess and hopefully save you family, too.
Mazel Tov on finding the best forum about JW's on the Internet.
 
ex-nj-jw
ex-nj-jw 9 years ago

Welcome patientbro,
Stick around and read, read read!! You'll find a huge mix of people here - but we all have this awefull cult in common in one way or another.
nj
 
5go
5go 9 years ago

Brothers I absolutely had to join this web site once I saw the new KM for this coming month, has any one else had a chance to view this? I'm absolutely flabbergasted for the first time in my life, what about the the apostle paul and the Bereans? didn't he encourage them to go and find out for them selves the truth? didn't they always go home and search in thier own bibles if the things they were being told were from God? this months Kingdom Ministry makes me so mad, and the real clincher is I brought it up while out in service with one of our elders and he got upset, I know now in my heart that this is Jehovahs way of testing out those who claim to be his servants, I hope and pray there is a elder some where out there that feels the same way and isn't one of these spoken of in the bible who eventually begin to Beat Jehovahs sheep and begin to drink with the spiritual drunkards of the world...... If any one needs a copy of the september kingdom ministry ill post one here, for every one.
Thank you for coming here.
Though like Gary pointed out this is nothing new. It's rather old the Watchtower is just being more vocal about it, because more and more people like you are coming here fed up with stuff like this.
 
Stealth453
Stealth453 9 years ago

Welcome to the board.
 
Hermano
Hermano 9 years ago

Welcome! I am glad someone in the Kingdom Hall is Awake! and paying attention to what is being taught.
 
Seeker4
Seeker4 9 years ago

Welcome, Patient Bro! We had a feeling that QB would push a lot of new folks onto this board!
I sent a copy of it to a couple of my old JW friends a couple of weeks ago when it was first posted here. As was mentioned, we get the latest WTS info weeks and sometimes months ahead of the typical congregation.
One brother agreed that it was just one more nail in the dumbing down of the organization. The other brother is a faithful JW who stepped down as an elder in order to get his Masters degree in psychology. I asked him, with his education and background, how could he stand to read stuff like that - no word back yet!
Anyway, stick around. There are many, many current and former elders and Bethelites here who will be very happy to talk to you and help out.
S4
 
cultswatter
cultswatter 9 years ago

Welcome patientbrother
You might want to bring this to the bookstudy tonight.
http://www.mediafire.com/?dnnemn7xhqn
There are other wierd things about that book
 
Seeker4
Seeker4 9 years ago

BTT
 
AllTimeJeff
AllTimeJeff 9 years ago

Dear Patient
I am a former missionary and elder. I can see how strongly you feel for your flock and for god. The pain and dismay I felt I honestly can't put into words.
I left not because of the "dumbing down" that some have referred to here. I think that is very legitimate. I left because I had questions I never allowed myself to find the answer to. When I found those answers, I allowed myself to be led down the path those answers led me.
You hit the nail on the head about the Boreans. Why would god create us with a heart AND mind and forbid us to use it, to question, to search for answers? Do you really believe in your heart of hearts that Jehovah expects you to use your brain to find him, only to turn off your thinking ability to serve him after you have found the "truth"? If truth is progressive, why are we not allowed to make such progress ourselves?
Please know for what this is worth that I will be following your story. I don't envy your pain, but I am interested to see where your honest search leads you to.
May you have peace.
 
sacrebleu
sacrebleu 9 years ago

I was in for 16 years and I can remember how they made fun of the Catholics...
Because Catholics go to the priest for confession and forgiveness.
But the elders have the right to decide who has been repentant enough.
What is the difference?
The Catholics were not allowed to read their Bible.
Now the JWs are not. What is the difference?
The Catholics think the Pope is God's mouthpiece.
The JWs think the elders are God's mouthpiece.
The Catholic cover up molesters.
Now the JWs have been covering for them too for years.
What is the difference? IMO NONE except the Catholics
don't let their pedophiles go from door to door.
sacrebleu!!!
 
PoppyR
PoppyR 9 years ago

have book study tonight and I literally get sick to my stomach when we go over the stuff in the revelation book
I cannot BELIEVE they are studying that again! That book drove me nuts.
Welcome patient Bro, it's a tough time when the realisation first hits you, the waves of WTF wash over you for a long time and sometimes still do, but stay and be patient! And things will soon start making more sense.
Poppy
 

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new september 2007 Kingdom Ministry Qbox
by patientbrother 9 years ago 43 Replies latest 9 years ago   watchtower bible
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jwfacts
jwfacts 9 years ago

Welcome. It is great to have you posting. You are in a tough situation and I hope you are able to work out the best way forward with help from this board.
That KM is absolute proof that the WTS uses mind control, they could not write a clearer example of information control.
 
SirNose586
SirNose586 9 years ago

Brothers I absolutely had to join this web site once I saw the new KM for this coming month, has any one else had a chance to view this? I'm absolutely flabbergasted for the first time in my life, what about the the apostle paul and the Bereans? didn't he encourage them to go and find out for them selves the truth? didn't they always go home and search in thier own bibles if the things they were being told were from God? this months Kingdom Ministry makes me so mad, and the real clincher is I brought it up while out in service with one of our elders and he got upset, I know now in my heart that this is Jehovahs way of testing out those who claim to be his servants, I hope and pray there is a elder some where out there that feels the same way and isn't one of these spoken of in the bible who eventually begin to Beat Jehovahs sheep and begin to drink with the spiritual drunkards of the world...... If any one needs a copy of the september kingdom ministry ill post one here, for every one.
First off, welcome to the board, patientbrother! I'm glad that some are still waking up to the realization that something is wrong in the organization. It took a lot of guts to come here. I should know; I was once scared to voice my concerns. And yes, you're absolutely right: we have the capacity to think and reason on subjects, and no human should ever discourage the use of your mind, EVER. If they do, they are trying to control your mind. It's a control I only recently reclaimed. The sad part is, any elder who has also woken up has to make the agonizing choice to step down, or leave. The ones who don't care, or the ones who want to rule the congregation with ham-fisted authority, will do just as you described. It's a lamentable position for any member of the congregation.
I just have to let those of you who have already left or just become inactive how incredibly hard it is for those of us that are married with lots of family in the kingdom hall, to leave would be to rip a family apart. its so disgusting at times the things I hear, our PO gave a special needs talk recently about not listening to the things we hear about witnesses, I was hoping he would have the courage to speak about the molestation stuff but he didnt, rather it was a 15 minute damage control part. I have book study tonight and I literally get sick to my stomach when we go over the stuff in the revelation book, my only hope is that one day those of us that pointed out stuff like I did when I was a teen ager about the last generation stuff that we will finally breathe a sigh of relief. I know Jehovah is a patient and loving God but I also know that he gets very angry with those who are supposed to be taking the lead and will hold them to a higher standard and they will be accountable. May Jehovah bless those of you who are not bitter but who are also waiting patiently for the day when his house is truly inspected.
I feel just as you do. My fam is still in, and so are one pair of grandparents. I hate going over the Rev. book, because they all take scriptures and apply it to themselves. It's the very height of presumptuousness, and yet they do it all the time. Call it Jehovah, or a coup, or the law, or a lawsuit, but somehow there needs to be some sort of housecleaning. They're losing their grip on the western lands, and they know it. Stick around, patient. Find out everything you want to know. Check the evidence. But do stick around, it's nice to talk to someone else trapped on the "inside."
 
worf
worf 9 years ago

Welcome Patient,
I was a third generation witness and former elder. Been out of the org fairly recently, since 2000. I was an elder for the entire decade of the 1990's.
I'm glad to see that you can see that the sept 2007 km question box goes directly against the bible and what it says about the Bereans.The scripture about the Bereans is the same scripture the Watchtower Society constantly drilled into us. Now they are going directly against this scripture and their own teaching.
I'm glad you are taking this seriously.
The book "Riches", published by the Watchtower Society in 1936 (therefore by President of the Watchtower Society at that time, Joseph Rutherford) says on page 178: " If you find a lie, forsake it regardless of who teaches it; it is your duty to God."
The Watchtower of March 1st 1966 on page 132 says: "Contrary to what some may think, it is not unkind and unloving to lay bare falsehood and corruption."
These are the Watchtower Society's own words.
Oh. And as for the scripture about the Bereans? You can be sure that they will be coming out with "new light" about that scripture soon, even though in reality there is no twisting of that scripture that can be done without lying. It is simple and clear just as it is. But they will attempt to do so in some form or fashion and the article will probably be called: "New Light On The Bereans".  Get those sunglasses ready!
Worf
 
flipper
flipper 9 years ago

Patient Bro- So glad to hear you are using an open mind to think with. Glad the witnesses didn't succeed in shutting yours. I feel for you my friend, I was raised in it and at 44 , finally got out 4 years ago. I too have a lot of family in. That is why I have faded gradually, so as to still have contact with my parents 82 and 80 who are still in. Just remember , you are doing the right thing, proving it to yourself, all of us on this board had to do that. We are all here for you my friend if you need support or comforting words of help. Just wanted you to know that, Peace to you, Mr. Flipper
 
quietlyleaving
quietlyleaving 9 years ago

Hi and welcome patientbrother and sacrebleu
Lokking forward to getting to know you both.
ql
 
Sarah Smiles
Sarah Smiles 9 years ago

Welcome! I guess they have to keep weeding out the non brain washing type! Gotta a question? do not ask!
Maybe it is the only way they can make up the evil slave(sheep) class.
It's darn if you do, and darn if you dont!
I'm happy to see your here! It's going to be nice to read your bibical post!
 
PinTail
PinTail 9 years ago

I am glad they came and printed this like this, maybe it may wake a few more up to the not so subtle anymore, mind control they have. They really are getting sloppy about hiding the proof that they are a cult.

The modern day Associated Bible Students do not put such sanctions on them selfs like this, um.
http://www.divineplan.org/

http://www.chicagobible.org/
 
Wasanelder Once
Wasanelder Once 9 years ago

it took me a long time to let go and recognize that the whole premise of "God's Organization" was a fantasy. The things they could get people to do in the name of God's Service. I know its hard to awaken to see that all around you is self deception. I wish you well as your eyes adjust to the light. Welcome here. There are so many level heads on this board that will help keep you from going off the deep end in either direction. As you must know, quite a few have done just exactly what you are doing in your awakening. That Rev book was a load of rubbish for sure! Be patient, it will take its course and you will be grateful you didn't run off and do anything drastic too soon. Use your head. W.Once
 
freeme
freeme 9 years ago

welcome to the board. glad you can see instead of dont think.
but its so sad that so many who are in are totally blind to that stuff and even think the september km is a loving blessing from god (including my wife who gets upset and calls me a god-hater for showing her scripture which encourages what the WTS discourages).
since i woke up i feel so disgusted over so many things. the circuit overseer near worshipping. "what a precious special week it is!" "gifts in men - such a blessing". happiness over the sep km. i realized that on the convention nearly nothing was said. it was just three days of guilt, no real bible study, no real help for the faith. at some point it sometimes sounds like they dont even need the bible. its just a little tool on the side. what is refreshing when you're told 3 days not to go for education, dont use the internet, dont have own opinions. dont, dont, dont.
at least the bible says the truth: they will beat their own brothers. the lost son was welcomed back with a big celebration. dfed once who come back get an judgement by humans and an annoucement where it is forbidden to clap for.
its so sick.
 
freeme
freeme 9 years ago

about the revelation book. yes it drives me nuts too. and with the sidepaper with the changes its even more annoying. and how wrong it is to read the book without the changes now. lol.
the rev book does not contain real knowledge. its all the time only:
1. read small part of scripture
2. twist the scripture until it applys to the WTS and tell'em
3. give no proof WHY it means what it means, give no references, give no further insight
4. next topic
and NOONE notices it! its incredible always. sitting numb in their seats, reading the paragraph, question, answer almost ín the same words as it is in the paragraph. sometime ago we had a occasional question because a sister found a little contradiction (something with the annointed and some dates). it wasnt answered by the elder - he didnt know. i answered it according to the JW belief in the end (twisted crap, no biblical proof). the elder was happy, next one. there was no proof that that what i answered made any sense at all, but noone questioned it. but this occasion was still the biggest question ive seen in many months. that sister is still able to think a bit.
 
blondie
blondie 9 years ago

Just a comment on sacrebleu's comment on letting pedophiles go door to door, instead the Catholic church allows pedophile priests to remain in charge of the altar boys and girls, and teach them the concepts of the church. And then when they are found out, merely transfer them to a new parish to continue the deed. www.snapnetwork.org is a group that is combatting clergy sexual abuse. It would be educational to see that the Catholic church despite the publicity is not changing its policies.
 
molybdenum
molybdenum 9 years ago

Hi there Some have found this information useful. http://perimeno.ca/Index.htm I hope you can take a look at it
 
Doubting Bro
Doubting Bro 9 years ago

Patient Bro, Welcome to the board!!
I can also relate to your situation as I have a wife that is not about to leave and pretty much my entire social circle is in. I still go to meetings and outside some brief discussions with my wife, no one realizes that I no longer believe the WTS is Jah's organization.
The Sept KM is really just the tip of the iceberg. There's the sexual abuse scandle, the UN relationship of 9 years, the whole 1914 doctrine, conflicting messages on blood, lack of caring congregations. All that stuff adds up. The more you read and research, the sicker you will feel. But, knowing the "truth about the truth" is better than just ignoring the facts. You will be in for an emotional ride.
Being able to vent here has been a vaulable resource for me and I'm sure it will be for you.
Look forward to your comments!
 
WTWizard
WTWizard 9 years ago

This topic is heavily discussed for a reason. It is true that Paul urged people to test out the religion to make sure it was the truth, examining the scriptures, and cross-referencing things to make sure they are really scriptural. This includes independent Bible discussion groups (if the religion was based on scripture, such study groups would reinforce it, not destroy it). And now the Puketower Society wants people to not do this. They are effectively banning independent Bible discussion groups and cross-examining the religion using outside sources. If this isn't a blatant disregard for the Bible they claim to be following, I don't know what it is.
 
BluesBrother
BluesBrother 9 years ago

Welcome to the board , Patient Bro..
I too have a wife that is an active dub. I am "inactive" , I do attend with her sometimes and remain on good terms with the Witnesses. Would I not love to jump up and shout out the real truth!!! , but for the sake of family , I do not,
I had to come off eldership, that was not easy without revealing my true motive, but I did it. What I am saying is that many of us understand your dilemma . It is easy for the unattached to say "just tell 'em to go to hell!" but family is important .
You will work it out and it will get better, there is no going back once your eyes are opened
 
BizzyBee
BizzyBee 9 years ago

moleybdenum,
Welcome to the forum!
I looked up your link - a pro-JW website that says:
Many among Jehovah's people have become upset, perhaps even stumbled, over the recent developments and revelations of wrongdoing and errors in the conduct and teachings of those who have been looked up to as leaders in the organization. Many, because of their "righteous indignation," feel that these sins and errors should be exposed. In this they believe they have Jesus as an example. What do you think? Should we publicize "the sins" of God's people? ( Isaiah 59:2 )
What matters to Jehovah most is our faith and obedience . ( Heb. 11:6 ; 1 Sam. 15:22,23 ; 1 John 5:3 )
Apparently, this is referring to faith and obedience to the organization. I'm sorry, but 'wrongdoing and errors in conduct and teachings' doesn't leave much to be faithful and obedient to. I would think that the Almighty Creator of the universe would be more concerned with the truth and accuracy of teachings about Him and exemplary conduct on the part of those who profess to be following Him. I cannot imagine that He would want us to be blindly faithful and obedient to wrongdoers who teach errors and conduct themselves so as to bring reproach from within and without.
With all due respect, this admonition makes God out to be a fool - which I don't believe He is. Yes, just as Jesus exposed the hypocritical religious leaders of his day, we must expose the false leaders in our day.
Again, welcome to the forum, and I look forward to your response.
 
stillajwexelder
stillajwexelder 9 years ago

welcome to the forum
 
Lady Liberty
Lady Liberty 9 years ago

Dear Patient Brother,
WELCOME to the forum!! We are happy to have you here!! Yes, the September KM was most shocking!! It is a desperate attempt to keep the friends from finding out many things they want to keep hidden. It doesn't take much research to open "pandoras box"! I hope you stick around!
Sincerely,
Lady Liberty
 
patientbrother
patientbrother 9 years ago

It's very nice to meet the new faces here and to also hear the voices of those that are still on the inside as well, like myself. The hard part for some of us , especially the ones who give deep comments , because they still have a love for their heavenly father is that the elders take notice,. Out in service they will constantly ask why am I not serving. In all truthfulness Brothers and Sisters, I like you ,believe this is just the beginning, this new KM the NGO scandal the tight grip the society is keeping on it's members , alot of people are asking questions now , every one has the internet, I have a October 1st 1968 Awake magazine I keep in my bible with me at all times, during our last CO visit I even pulled it out when we were all making car groups in the back and he was asking if any one was offering dated literature I stood next to him and jokingly pulled the magazine out and said I was going to offer that, he kind of jokingly said " wow that's going back a ways". I told him that alot of the very old publications were available on ebay, and that I had been outbid on a pink song book that I wanted so badly, my underlying point to him being that , millions upon millions of witnesses had unbridled access to the internet, and they were making use of it. with the societies new KM Q-box this shows I believe a split that is occurring at Bethel , who do you think it was that finally got www.watchtower.org up and running?(younger Bothers) and then think to yourself who probably fought against the idea,(older Bothers) remember the pharisees did not want to let go of the old mosaic law, they didn't want to recognize the Messiah and the new provisions for life, so today there has begun a tug of war inside of Bethel, thats why I am still in the Kingdom hall Jesus said we were to care for his precious sheep, its our duty to him as our savior , and Brothers you all know that when this split occurs and it will soon, alot of innocent but just blindsided brothers are going to be hurting and that is when people like you and I have the opportunity to show love and compassion to one another just as Jesus demonstrated while on earth. There are going to be so many confused and they are going to need our love. remmember Jesus words at Matthew 24:45-51 notice he specifically says but if ever that evil slave shoud say in his heart " my master is delaying". and then read verse 51 and you cannot help but be fearful, these brothers of ours GB, DOs COs elders and ministerial servants are going to be held accountable to a greater degree because they had the power to speak out because of their assignments , but please don't give up hope always pray for Jehovah's holy spirit to effect each and every one of them to remember that Jehovah is in charge and it is Jehovah's heavenly kingdom, and that we are subjects and therefore subjected to him. last point , Moses was one of the most faithful humans to ever walk this planet and serve Jehovah, but do not forget that when he sinned by saying what he did when he struck the rock Jehovah did not hold back from punishing him, he didn't look the other way so to speak, but remember who lead Isreal into the promised land? it was a young man weve all read about Joshua who had a heart that truly loved his heavenly father and older ones dont forget his companion Kaleb even though he was alot older than Joshua he served in a very important duty, he gave Joshua sound advice , So don't be discouraged when you think back to all the years and you begin to see the evil slave showing himself, rather like we have been told all along gird up the armor that God does provide and and dig in. May Jehovah bless all those who earnestly search for him.
 
OnTheWayOut
OnTheWayOut 9 years ago

Brothers I absolutely had to join this web site once I saw .....
Welcome to JWD. I had the same reaction when the subject of Bethel layoffs occurred last year.
I had already resigned as an elder just before posting, and had already been reading internet sites
that revealed the real truth.
Like many posters here, I am inactive, but fading because of family. My wife is active and goes to
most meetings, and I have a mother in the JW's.
The internet is the enemy of their version of truth. Even if the www.watchtower.org website were
never established, and even if the WTLibrary CD-ROM never happened, most dubs would have the
internet. Not having their own site would have been worse for curious ones. YOUTUBE is also
helpful as many curious ones don't see a threat if they aren't "READING" controversial stuff, but
just viewing things until they know they should not.
The WTS really doesn't have much choice but to keep discouraging independent research. If they
ignore the subject, JW's will get braver. This way, the indoctrinated ones keep hearing about the
dangers and keep their fears. But their heavy hand just makes the young ones curious. I think the
WTS recognizes this, but figure they will lose the young ones, anyway.
Your discussion with the C.O. almost guarantees that your name came up with the elders. It isn't
a big deal to you, I am sure, but he must have mentioned how you carry older literature. It depends
on what his mindset is whether he said that was a good thing or a bad thing. Just keep in mind that
you won't win these guys over by revealing things to them. They have to be ready for opening their
minds on their own. All you can do is peak some curiousity, so be careful- don't try to club anyone
with the real truth. Peace out Patientbrother.
 

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Topic Summary
brothers i absolutely had to join this web site once i saw the new km for this coming month, has any one else had a chance to view this?
i'm absolutely flabbergasted for the first time in my life, what about the the apostle paul and the bereans?
didn't he encourage them to go and find out for them selves the truth?



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new september 2007 Kingdom Ministry Qbox
by patientbrother 9 years ago 43 Replies latest 9 years ago   watchtower bible
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yknot
yknot 9 years ago

Actually I agree with MolyBdenum....for those not fully ready to leave the Borg....sites like http://perimeno.ca/Index.htm and even e-watchman can be the small steps........that lead to letting go of all the control....going full on apostate is not for all...... some require baby steps..
 
changeling
changeling 9 years ago

A warm welcome to all the newbies on here!
changeling
 
mysecretpumkin
mysecretpumkin 9 years ago

Can someone please provide a link for this KM? I would very much like to read what the KM says.
 
OnTheWayOut
OnTheWayOut 9 years ago

The link to a reading of the OKM is http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/137579/1.ashx

I will PM you also, mysecretpumpkin.
 

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Topic Summary
brothers i absolutely had to join this web site once i saw the new km for this coming month, has any one else had a chance to view this?
i'm absolutely flabbergasted for the first time in my life, what about the the apostle paul and the bereans?
didn't he encourage them to go and find out for them selves the truth?



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by blondie 4 months ago
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by StarTrekAngel a month ago



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Special Assembly: CO admits the grip is tightning.....
by yourmomma 5 years ago 101 Replies latest 5 years ago   watchtower beliefs
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yourmomma
yourmomma 5 years ago

What im about to post is the exact words from the CO during the last talk of the most recent special assembly day. Even though im out I still try to keep up with what is being said just cause I find it interesting, and alot of stuff I find funny, but this stuff is starting to get scary, and I fear for my friends who are still in. Here are the exact words:

"Brothers remember this, we are living under the kingdom now. Kingdom control will get tighter and tighter as we come close to the end of this system of things. Brothers, we are not directing our lives, the Kingdom is telling us how to live our lives today. In a couple of issues of the kingdom ministry, just recently, you go back and you check these kingdom ministries, and you will find the kingdom is actually telling us how to spend our money. Thats kingdom control, brothers. You see, satan wants us to feel that we are in full control of everything. No brothers, you see Jehovah is directing our lives. Remember that. And who better to direct our lives than our heavenly father? Kingdom control is directing how we live our lives now."
 
wannabefree
wannabefree 5 years ago

do you have a recording?
 
yknot
yknot 5 years ago

Wanna divulge the CO's name.....
 
yourmomma
yourmomma 5 years ago

i'll try to find the co's name, i do have a recording, will upload shortly.
 
VoidEater
VoidEater 5 years ago

Scary stuff...
 
ESTEE
ESTEE 5 years ago

Let me guess, "The Kingdom is telling us to send our money to the WT."...?
Scary.
ESTEE
 
Violia
Violia 5 years ago

wow, he actually said Kingdom contol. wow and wow again.
 
Botzwana
Botzwana 5 years ago

Probably the same jackass that told all of us in 2006 NOT to buy a house! I bought one in 2007. I also have a business of 4 years too. He was dead wrong.
 
Farkel
Farkel 5 years ago

:"Brothers remember this, we are living under the kingdom now. Kingdom control will get tighter and tighter as we come close to the end of this system of things. Brothers, we are not directing our lives, the Kingdom is telling us how to live our lives today. In a couple of issues of the kingdom ministry, just recently, you go back and you check these kingdom ministries, and you will find the kingdom is actually telling us how to spend our money. Thats kingdom control, brothers. You see, satan wants us to feel that we are in full control of everything. No brothers, you see Jehovah is directing our lives. Remember that. And who better to direct our lives than our heavenly father? Kingdom control is directing how we live our lives now."
Who in the hell is "the kingdom?" The WTS uses an abstraction to create an entity which doesn't exist to control people!
If there was ever a bigger pile of bullshit, I would love to hear what it is!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Farkel
 
Cadellin
Cadellin 5 years ago

Are you serious? This is way more than what I heard at our last SAD. I would really like to hear a recording (not that I'm doubting you!!) This is scary stuff...OTOH, there are always those "fringe-element" uber-crazy COs that go the extra loony mile, and maybe this guy falls into that category. It would be interesting to have his name, see if anyone else found him over the top.
 
thetrueone
thetrueone 5 years ago

What he's saying is that the WTS. has complete control of your lives because its god's own solemn kingdom.
In between the these lines is a suggestion to spend your money within god's organization, which I need and want.
Its a nice way of saying that the organization needs money ( himself ) $$$
 
yourmomma
yourmomma 5 years ago

The CO's name is John Williams I think. The entire talk is worth a listen if you want to get a gauge at what the current problems are in the org, but the "kingdom control tightning" part is at the 28:00 minute mark.
Here is the link: http://www.filesend.net/download.php?
f=bffc974810c2ce1cba5e316143aee16a

im not sure if its this one or his previous talk, but he also said something about being a JW since the 50's, and not once has Jehovah's organization "misled" him. I had to laugh at that one since he clearly was a JW during 75. Plus, if he makes a point to claim that Jehovah's org will not "mislead" us, then people must be talking about how the org is misleading them.
 
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 5 years ago

 "Kingdom control is directing how we live our lives now."
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00798/Adolf-Hitler_s_798283c.jpg
http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2008/adolf_hitler/adolf_hitler_02.jpg
........................... ...OUTLAW
 
sherah
sherah 5 years ago

This CO served in my old circuit 15 years ago, he is a company man thru and thru. Spent most of his life in the full-time serve-us so he's counting on the dubs to continue his lifestyle.
What KM was he referring to?
 
steve2
steve2 5 years ago

I look forward to hearing the recording of this - I must say - unremarkable speech.
The watchtower has a long, long, long and dreary history of special announcements about how "arrangements" are suddenly shaping in line with the imminence of the end.
I remember going to an international assembly in the early 1970s when speaker after speaker thundered how the organization was even then gearing up to be ready to face the impending great tribulation. The crowd murmured in muted excitement and afterwards, old-time witnesses declared they had never before sensed such urgency from the platform. Rubbish. people have stupidly short memories. Stupidly short! Time and time again the organization has had special releases at assemblies that led the rank and file to conclude that the time was soooooooo near. My maternal grandmother told me about the publication of the book "Children" that was released - in the late 1930's - early 40's? Young children were given copies of this book in which they were told quite clearly that now was not the time to be forming relationships with the opposite sex and getting married and having children. What suckers the JWs were back then. What suckers they are today. On and on and on it goes - special announcements, special talks, special excitement...and then, nothing...the old world just keeps right on keeping on.
 
davidl7
davidl7 5 years ago

Stop making up stuff..."kingdom control", yea right!!! By the way, you can be sued if you use an actual CO's name and make a fake recording of those alleged statements. I went to a recent, I didn't hear anything like. I heard about how the Kingdom preaching work is growing all over the world. Interesting remarks from recent converts, including a former nun and a former associate pastor of a Baptist church.
I just can't believe how naive people are here believing the made up stories and absurdities posted by someone with a "Sarah Palinized" mentality. Think people, think!!! Think for yourselves....
 
grewupjw1969
grewupjw1969 5 years ago

Very scary stuff.....
 
poopsiecakes
poopsiecakes 5 years ago

I just can't believe how naive people are here believing the made up stories and absurdities posted by someone with a "Sarah Palinized" mentality. Think people, think!!! Think for yourselves....
Ooh! You WERE at the assembly!!! Was it very happifying?
 
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 5 years ago

Stop making up stuff..."kingdom control", yea right!!!
I went to a recent, I didn't hear anything like. I heard about how the Kingdom preaching work is growing all over the world.
Interesting remarks from recent converts, including a former nun and a former associate pastor of a Baptist church.
I just can't believe how naive people are here believing the made up stories and absurdities.....davidl7

..................... ...OUTLAW
 
Farkel
Farkel 5 years ago

steve2,
:"Children" that was released - in the late 1930's - early 40's?
1941. Rutherford had all the children seated in the front rows and gave each of them a copy of that book.
I've read it. It is a pathetic book, similar the Divine Purpose book from 1958-1959 because it contains a fictitious conversation between people to make the point. Third grade reading at best.
That was 69 years ago. Had all those children (who are now in their 70's and 80's) followed Rutherford's advice and remained unmarried and childless and just sold his books, the Watchtower Printing Corporation would have died out for lack of new blood being born and indoctrinated to carry on their business of selling books.
The next year after that 1941 assembly, Rutherford died of colon cancer. A perfect ending for an evil asshole like him.
Farkel
 

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Special Assembly: CO admits the grip is tightning.....
by yourmomma 5 years ago 101 Replies latest 5 years ago   watchtower beliefs
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yourmomma
yourmomma 5 years ago

wow, this talk was so crazy that even davidl7 a JW thinks its fake. that tells you right there that they are saying things at the assemblys that they havent in the past. its getting so crazy, that even JW's cant believe it! lol

id be interested in hearing how this genius thinks the talk recording is fake. i love it, its just like on another forum the JW's on there claimed the awake with the children who died because they refused blood on the cover was a fake made by apostates. ROFL
 
mrsjones5
mrsjones5 5 years ago

I just can't believe how naive people are here believing the made up stories and absurdities posted by someone with a "Sarah Palinized" mentality. Think people, think!!! Think for yourselves....
Yeah, think for yourselves and become a jw. Give the kingdom your life and your mind.  Oh brother, another blind jw. Stay a while David, those blinders might fall off yet.
 
yknot
yknot 5 years ago

do you have more recording of the spad....... cuz nobody has uploaded any and since jwproclaimers went under and jwbrothers was trying to be in-line with the Org....they are hard to come by (and well my SPAD is in the dead last of the season)
 
flipper
flipper 5 years ago

DAVIDl7- Welcome to the board . What makes you think YOURMOMMA is making this up ? Are you calling her a liar ? She can't be " sued " by anyone as what she was reporting is the truth. You may not have heard this at YOUR assembly- but believe me, having been a JW for 44 years myself MANY TIMES Circuit Overseers will embellish and put their own words and phrases into talks to spice them up a bit. Put stuff in there that is NOT in the outline. Seen it happen MANY times.
Perhaps YOU need to stop being so naive and taking everything on faith and trust that the WT society is supposedly telling YOU the truth. A generation is 30 years long by the way. Not 120 years of overlapping lifetimes. Just thought I'd throw that in . Think man, Think ! Think for yourself as well ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper
 
cabasilas
cabasilas 5 years ago

Yknot,
You have a PM.
 
yourmomma
yourmomma 5 years ago

ynot, i'll try to see if i can get more of it.
 
cabasilas
cabasilas 5 years ago

I can confirm that the speaker is John Williams from South Carolina Circuit 8.
 
palmtree67
palmtree67 5 years ago

Typical JW apologist - davidl7
Butts in, calls everyone a liar and disappears.


 
yourmomma
yourmomma 5 years ago

cabasilas,

so you mean im not the Frank Caliendo of apostates and didnt record that talk myself using my Rich Little type skills in not only putting on the man's Ghana accent, but the, chairman, and interviews with sisters as well? lol
 
therevealer
therevealer 5 years ago

davidl7 - I have got to know, are you serious or jiving us all??
 
AGuest
AGuest 5 years ago

[[Banging head on keyboard]]
Sigh. Peace... to you all.
A slave of Christ,
SA
 
thetrueone
thetrueone 5 years ago

I downloaded the talk and it sounds very legit, WTS/JWS talks are pretty much all the same in their content and information.
The same retorical statments about this is evil and that is evil and the reason being that Satan has liitle time left,
but one can protect themseves by staying close to god's earthly arangment the WTS.
This wicked old system of things is full of lies pupetrated by Satan but gods' kingdom on the other hand is all full of truths
and fruits of wisdom for the true worshipers of Jehovah. What all these guys are doing is changing words around
from one and another but essentially saying the same thing, even Sarah Palin would be able to see through corporate inspired propaganda.
What the talk is about is a guy reasserting his power and personal stature offered to him by the almighty and powerful Watchtower kingdom.
 
chickpea
chickpea 5 years ago

i'll be damned if i am going to devote
however many mindless minutes it
would take to listen to that bull$h!t...
i know $h!t stinks without having to step in it
i know for me, when we missed a DC
at the usual venue (attending another)
an old-time sister told me the food
court had been staked out by "attendants"
to TAKE THE NAMES of the sheeple who
used it for their convenience, contrary to
the ORDERS of the b0rg, that was the beginning
of the end for me... adults, for zeus's sake,
being tattled on for disregarding a bull$h!t
command.... by other SUPPOSED ADULTS!
this stranglehold strategy will send the younger ones
streaming out in droves....if their response to the damning
of the social networks is any indication....
 
clarity
clarity 5 years ago

Momma, thanks for this....
Toward the end of the talk Williams said that,.. this kingdom will go on and some of you, right here, will live and go right thru to the paradise earth... some may die.
After talking about how useless higher education was etc, he then stated that Jehovah will take care of you! (paraphrasing)
Gee, I guess that's what all those elderly financially strapped witnesses were told too!
Quite difficult to listen to, so much emotional whipping.
clarity
 
mrsjones5
mrsjones5 5 years ago

[[Banging head on keyboard]]
Sigh. Peace... to you all.
Ouch girlfriend, Peace to you too.

 
Bungi Bill
Bungi Bill 5 years ago

The expression "The More Things Change, The More They Stay The Same" comes to mind!

Bill.
 
Botzwana
Botzwana 5 years ago

David17 sounds like I was 6 months ago...Read Crisis of Conscience. It'll open that mind up.
 
Mad Sweeney
Mad Sweeney 5 years ago

We're the lucky ones. We got out of that hellhole of a cult. God, those poor people who have to continually listen to that crap. No wonder so many are so depressed.
 
WTWizard
WTWizard 5 years ago

Kingdumb control? This is hardly a new concept: Boozerford started it. No holidays, mandatory field circus (and 60 hours a month for everyone, at that), and the structure that led to bans on everything fun amount to Kingdumb control. And it hasn't let up since.
What I think is going on is that the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger is trying to scare the witlesses into thinking the end is at hand. They will impose new rules, they will clamp down on others (including controling movement at the a$$emblies). And they will continue making it more and more difficult for the witlesses to make a living. But, the concept is hardly new.
 
designs
designs 5 years ago

I can tell you hearing David Splane live at a SAD ranting and pounding his finger into the podium was enough to convince me to never go back. The Assylum was being run by the patients.
 

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Topic Summary
what im about to post is the exact words from the co during the last talk of the most recent special assembly day.
even though im out i still try to keep up with what is being said just cause i find it interesting, and alot of stuff i find funny, but this stuff is starting to get scary, and i fear for my friends who are still in.
here are the exact words:.



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Special Assembly: CO admits the grip is tightning.....
by yourmomma 5 years ago 101 Replies latest 5 years ago   watchtower beliefs
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Joey Jo-Jo
Joey Jo-Jo 5 years ago

I find that the new Watchtowers and Awakes are offending more and more people, one had a priest holding a gun with the bible and the other atheists on the march lol, I guess kingdom control will have to get tighter and tighter if they want to continue with this charade.

Farkel wrote : The next year after that 1941 assembly, Rutherford died of colon cancer. A perfect ending for an evil asshole like him.
And openly Rutherford admitted that he made an ass of himself, how prophetic.
 
Gregor
Gregor 5 years ago

(My mother was one of those in the front row when Rutherford released "Children". She is 82 now and has been out of the cult for over 20 years.)
Is this the CO?

 
dozy
dozy 5 years ago

Oh great , "Andre" is back (22.51)
 
Soldier77
Soldier77 5 years ago

I wonder when my SAD was... I haven't heard of it being scheduled... of course haven't been to a Thursday night meeting in over 6 months and they dont announce anything on Sundays when I show up once a month.
Not that I would go to it, last SAD I didn't go for half of the session. It's shit like this that makes me appreciate not going.
Anyway, I think most of us said that the grip would be tightening and it sure is. Sounds like the rhetoric and propaganda is being taken to the next level. The insanity level.
 
life is to short
life is to short 5 years ago

This is truly scary. I think it has always been there but they are voicing it more loudly. What is scary for me is having my husband still in. I am still in a huge way still tied to the religion through him. It truly scares me, what could happen, what they could demand of him and what he will do with those's demands.
I think everyone with a loved one still in will have more and more problems the longer this cult goes on. I hope I am wrong and they will just try to go more main stream like the Mormons but it does not seem to be the case. Tightening on collage yet again, no tape recordings, the children and blood issue, etc seems to staying the course, scary.
LITS
 
FloridaPerry
FloridaPerry 5 years ago

Sarah Palin isn't dumb enough to be sucked into the JW's.

Gotta keep 'em on the edge of their seats. It's really very sad. Most JW's are good people who are being misled. The internet is a real thorn in the WTBTS's side. All that info right at your finger tips. I'm surprised they haven't banned the use of it yet.
 
THE GLADIATOR
THE GLADIATOR 5 years ago

Kingdom publishers
Kingdom ministry
Kingdom hall
Kingdom smile
And now introducing Kingdom control, guaranteed help you give more of your money to Kingdom interests.
Kingdom isn't just for Christmas. It can keep you enslaved for your whole life while you wait 'till Kingdom come.
 
moshe
moshe 5 years ago

"control" is not a word that garners warm fuzzy subliminal feelings, is it? No, it makes people want to put their hands up and say- back off!
 
Soldier77
Soldier77 5 years ago

So it's now official: Kingdom Mind-Control Cult. Excellent. Now that we have that out of the way, lets get back to our daily beatings until morale improves shall we?
 
jgnat
jgnat 5 years ago

I recall from the last Circuit Assembly an admonition to show more enthusiasm for the door-to-door work, and a stern instruction to the Canadian brothers to refrain from ski-jackets in service. Purchase a nice suit-coat for winter.
I must admit I sleep through most of it. I have ears only for the absurdities.
 
bobld
bobld 5 years ago

Why they(GB) are no different the the Afghans leaders.Women must cover their face/feet.Dancing=execution.No television, radio or no education Marriage of 10 year old girls that's like getting baptised at a kingdom hall nothing unusual there. How about public whipping=shunning/disfellowshipping.SAME MOLE MENTALLY.
B
 
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 5 years ago

I recall from the last Circuit Assembly an admonition to show more enthusiasm for the door-to-door work,and a stern instruction
to the Canadian brothers to refrain from ski-jackets in service. Purchase a nice suit-coat for winter.....Jgnat

 How frigg`n stupid do you have to be..
 To advise people not to dress properly,for a Canadian Winter..
 We have a lot of rugged country..
 If you get stranded in the middle of nowhere without the right clothing..
 Your Dead..

 The WBT$ is Run by IDIOTS!..

...................... ...OUTLAW
 
DagothUr
DagothUr 5 years ago

Bla, bla, bla, organization, bla, bla, bla, organization, bla, bla, bla, bla, organization, bla,bla bla, organization, bla, organization, bla,bla,bla.
This CO is the greatest bonk-head I have ever heard.
 
agonus
agonus 5 years ago

Rutherford was an ass who spread The Cancer...

...and then The Cancer spread to his ass!
 
heathen
heathen 5 years ago

If only they had money . how much can you get out of janitors ?
 
blondie
blondie 5 years ago


*** w03 3/1 p. 17 par. 17 Trust in Jehovah With All Your Heart ***In addition, trusting in Jehovah means trusting those whom he trusts. For example, Jehovah has arranged for "the faithful and discreet slave" to care for the earthly Kingdom interests. (Matthew 24:45-47) We do not try to go it alone, and we do not ignore that appointment, for we trust in Jehovah’s arrangement. Further, elders serve in the local Christian congregation and, according to the apostle Paul, are appointed by holy spirit. (Acts 20:28) By cooperating with the elder arrangement in the congregation, we also show that we trust in Jehovah.—Hebrews 13:17.

*** w81 3/1 p. 24 Do You Appreciate the "Faithful and Discreet Slave"? ***. Beginning with Pentecost, 33 C.E., and continuing through the 19 centuries since then, this slavelike congregation has been feeding its members spiritually, doing so faithfully and discreetly. Especially has the identity of this "slave" become clear at the time of Christ’s return or presence. The "slave" is identifiable by its watchfulness and by the fact that it is faithfully and discreetly providing spiritual food as needed by all in the Christian congregation. Indeed, this "slave," or spirit-anointed congregation, is the one approved channel representing God’s kingdom on earth in the "time of the end." (Dan. 12:4)

 
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 5 years ago

** w81 3/1 p. 24 Do You Appreciate the "Faithful and Discreet Slave"? ***. Beginning with Pentecost, 33 C.E.,
and continuing through the 19 centuries since then, this slavelike congregation has been feeding its members spiritually, doing so faithfully and discreetly.

 If that were True..
 Russel would have joined an "Already Existing" organization..
 Not start his own..

 The WBT$ is Run by Idiots..
The_Three_Stooges.jpg
.......................   ...OUTLAW
 
thetrueone
thetrueone 5 years ago

The Watchtower Kingdom was originally created by C T Russell and his wealth, Rutherfraud just grabbed it for himself and used it for his own good.
This is a self devised kingdom that necessitated indentured power to a few opportunistic men. But to create this power they had to come up
with  coercive marketing gimmicks to draw the publics attention, from there the kingdom grew and expanded, virtually creating more power
and wealth .

Here's an interesting fact if Russell hadn't dumped most of his money into the WTS. Corporation when he died, characters like Rutherford wouldn't
have chased after it as he strenuously did, once he had control of the money he knew what he had to do keep it fluent and that was to publish more
books and literature, even if it did go against Russell's last will and testament. The potential obtainable power was visioned by himself together
with control of a vast amount of money and thats the real reason for the appearance of the Watchtower kingdom which exists today.
 
BluesBrother
BluesBrother 5 years ago

Perhaps david17 (his age?) has read the Feb 15 Wt, in which we are accused of being "crafty false teachers"and using "information taken out of context".
If that should ever be the case, then please tell us? We challenge the Watchtower and any lurking Witnesses to put the arguments to the test..Get out your cd roms and bury yourselves in your K H library and see whether quotes from the WT literature is taken out of context and misrepresented ....


 
moshe
moshe 5 years ago

The brothers and sisters have already shown they are ready for Kingdumb control where it counts, by going along with the "one sheet per poop" toilet paper quota at the assemblies!
-
 

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Topic Summary
what im about to post is the exact words from the co during the last talk of the most recent special assembly day.
even though im out i still try to keep up with what is being said just cause i find it interesting, and alot of stuff i find funny, but this stuff is starting to get scary, and i fear for my friends who are still in.
here are the exact words:.



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Special Assembly: CO admits the grip is tightning.....
by yourmomma 5 years ago 101 Replies latest 5 years ago   watchtower beliefs
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agonus
agonus 5 years ago

That paragraph sounds a hell of a lot like a subliminal S.O.S...
 
Soldier77
Soldier77 5 years ago

ROFL! Andre! Yeah, is that his REAL name?? WTS is great at fiction!
 
kurtbethel
kurtbethel 5 years ago

"Andre" should read The Finished Mystery and a few copeis of Golden Age, all in context, and report back.
 
mochamint22
mochamint22 5 years ago

Yeah what the heck is Kingdom Control? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I agree that they're just gearing up to control peoples' money. I remember many "Special Needs" talks about how we didn't have enough money to make the mortgage on the Hall so people needed to pony up the dough. There was also great emphasis on how we should be donating to the World Wide Work too and not just the local donation box. Yeah that was when my moms started setting up her BILL PAY to send a check to both boxes monthly. That way she can also take a tax break for her donations. Oh man, it just gets better and better. I always would get a kick out people would actually fight over who got to sit next to the donation box at the assemblies and act like they were just Jah's gift to the organization if they were able to do something like that. I never got to participate on the programs, too bad I wasn't an elder's child.
 
Refriedtruth
Refriedtruth 5 years ago

Continued more on, fraud for God watchtower creed of greed http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/203750/1/Video-based-on-Kingdom-Control-Its-short-but-to-the-point-Seen-it

 
Yan Bibiyan
Yan Bibiyan 5 years ago

@ min 28 - ...." People are being arrested because of independent thinking"...."families are being broken because of independent thinking"...

LOL, REALLY!?! because of "independent thinking"!?

These fuc#s have no shame....
 
ziddina
ziddina 5 years ago

"cabasilas, ... so you mean im not the Frank Caliendo of apostates and didnt record that talk myself using my Rich Little type skills in not only putting on the man's Ghana accent, but the, chairman, and interviews with sisters as well? lol..."
Ahhhh.....
Your Momma, I think it was DAVID17 who implied that your recording wasn't "real", not Cabasilas...
 
Mary
Mary 5 years ago

This post has been rated  click to view
 
Mary
Mary 5 years ago

Here's another lie (I guess they still think that no one will actually check on their bullshit claims) at 32.00, he starts in on 'higher education' and says:

"...this problem of higher education. Everybody saying 'you need a college education.' In 2009.....of all college graduates here in the United States, only 19.7% of them got a job. The other 80% that didn't get a job you know what they're doing? They're flipping hamburgers......"
Um, in case this moron hasn't noticed, we're in the worst recession since the Great Depression and jobs for everyone are scarce right now. Notice how he picks the worse year in decades to try and promote the idea that a college (or university) education is utterly useless? What about those who don't have a college education? Maybe they're not even flipping burgers right now. Here's a few statistics you'll never hear about at the Circuit ASsembly:

"How much is higher education worth in cold hard money? A college master's degree is worth $1.3 million more in lifetime earnings than a high school diploma, according to a recent report from the U.S. Census Bureau. The report titled "The Big Payoff: Educational Attainment and Synthetic Estimates of Work-Life Earnings" (.pdf) reveals that over an adult's working life, high school graduates can expect, on average, to earn $1.2 million; those with a bachelor's degree, $2.1 million; and people with a master's degree, $2.5 million.
Persons with doctoral degrees earn an average of $3.4 million during their working life, while those with professional degrees do best at $4.4 million. "At most ages, more education equates with higher earnings, and the payoff is most notable at the highest educational levels," said Jennifer Cheeseman Day, co-author of the report. The figures are based on 1999 earnings projected over a typical work life, defined as the period from ages 25 through 64.
Additional highlights from the report show:
◦In 1999, average annual earnings ranged from $18,900 for high school dropouts to $25,900 for high school graduates, $45,400 for college graduates and $99,300 for the holders of professional degrees (medical doctors, dentists, veterinarians and lawyers).
◦Over a work life, earnings for a worker with a bachelor's degree compared with one who had just a high school diploma increase by about $1 million for non-Hispanic Whites and about $700,000 for African Americans; Asians and Pacific Islanders; and Hispanics.
◦Currently, almost 9-in-10 young adults graduate from high school and about 6-in-10 high school seniors go on to college the following year.
A separate report released last year, "What's It Worth? Field of Training and Economic Status: 1996," said among people with bachelor's degrees, those working full time in engineering earned the highest average monthly pay ($4,680), while those with education degrees earned the lowest ($2,802) in 1996. ¹
¹ http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/a/edandearnings.htm
http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p23-210.pdf
Of course, Brother Williams would never consider telling the audience that the only way you'll get accepted into Crooklyn is if you have either a college or university degree in a specific field. There's no openings for toilet bowl scrubbers anymore. That's only for the rank and file.
I guess they're just having a fit over all the young Dubs who are either going to college or university and dropping 'the troof' by the wayside. What a bunch of goobers.......
 
flipper
flipper 5 years ago

" C.O. admits the grip is tightening ". " Kingdom control " just another substitute term for " WT Society control ". But like Farkel stated they try to use " Kingdom control " as a decoy so unsuspecting Witnesses won't notice the difference. To the ordinary Witness WT Society = Jehovah anyway so it's not a far stretch in their mind controlled state to equate " Kingdom control " with being controlled by " Jehovah " thus making it a POSITIVE experience in their own minds ! And then the WT society convinces them that it's an imaginary alleged " Satan " who wants them to think INDEPENDENTLY from this " Kingdom control ". It's all a very slick, sly, and deceptive use of words to deceive Witnesses by the WT society.
Steve Hassan in his books on cult mind control mentions that destructive cults become MORE controlling when they see they are losing grip on members. Hassan states in " Combatting Cult Mind Control " on pg. 62, " If information transmitted to a cult member is perceived as an attack on either the leader, the doctrine, or the group , a hostile wall goes up. Members are trained to disbelieve ANY criticsm . Critical words have been explained away in advance as " the lies about us that SATAN puts in people's minds . "
Also- Witnesses are trained to DISTRUST themselves or their own minds ! Really creepy. Notice what Hassan says in his book on pg. 79, " Cult doctrine always requires that a person DISTRUST his own self. The doctrine becomes the " master program " for ALL thoughts, feelings, and actions. Since it is the TRUTH , perfect and absolute, any flaw in it is viewed as only a reflection of the believer's OWN imperfection. He is taught that he MUST FOLLOW the prescribed formula even if he doesn't really understand it. "
Nuff said. WT soociety and Jehovah's Witnesses are a dangerous mind control cult ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper
 
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 5 years ago

"If God wanted Jehovah`s Witness`s to Think for Themselves"..
 "He would have given them a Brain!"..
http://media.columbiamissourian.com/multimedia/2009/08/09/media/080809_JWconvention1_t_w600_h1200.jpg
...................... ...OUTLAW
 
Hairyhegoat
Hairyhegoat 5 years ago

I would give them a hand grenade with thin pin out and throw both at the platform and run, lol

HHG IS MAD TONIGHT
 
moshe
moshe 5 years ago

off topic, but--Look at the puny handful of baptism candidates in the front two rows of Outlaw's picture- and most of them look like very mature adults.- no young adults to be seen.
 
moshe
moshe 5 years ago

dbl post
 
baltar447
baltar447 5 years ago

moshe, I really don't think that's a saturday morning, because all other sessions those areas are for elderly.
 
jam
jam 5 years ago

Maybe the CO have Syphilis, that would explain his talk.
 
Snoozy
Snoozy 5 years ago

Politicians and religious speakers, they are the only ones that can talk all day and not say a thing...
Would that mean they are full of hot air?
Snoozy
 
truman
truman 5 years ago

I just listened to the section where the speaker condemns college as worthless for getting a job. Wow! It seems to me that he is being very, sneaky about what he is saying there. He says that in 2009, only 19.7% of college grads in the U.S. “got a job.” The other 80% are, according to him, “flipping burgers.” Is that not a job? Maybe not a great one, but it is a job.

He betrays his duplicity in his own words when he throws away this quick qualification for his statistics: “in their field.” It seems he is trying to take a stat that shows many college grads not finding employment in their fields and paint all these people as completely unemployed.

Furthermore, he words his diatribe in such a way that it seems to apply to ALL college graduates in the U.S. in 2009, not just those who graduated that year. And where is his evidence for the mass hiring of college graduates by MacDonald’s and Burger King to flip their burgers? The whole speech is a mass of deceitful rhetoric full of logical fallacies and misinformation.

As for me, I am a person who graduated with a BA in 2009, and I am employed in my field—part time, but that is because I am in graduate school working on my master’s degree. When I finish it, I expect to be able to find the level of work I want in my field. And I am an English major.
 
baltar447
baltar447 5 years ago

itsacult, they only have baptism on the saturday am session. All other times that's designated seating for the elderly.
 
Mary
Mary 5 years ago

Here's what Outlaw's picture should really say:





 

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Topic Summary
what im about to post is the exact words from the co during the last talk of the most recent special assembly day.
even though im out i still try to keep up with what is being said just cause i find it interesting, and alot of stuff i find funny, but this stuff is starting to get scary, and i fear for my friends who are still in.
here are the exact words:.



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Has anyone noticed how in the October JW Broadcast, Losch encourages good works towards ALL people?
by Tenacious 5 months ago
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The KEY WORD in Isaiah 44:25-26 is "Predictions" and the apostles NEVER made any predictions setting dates.
by Greybeard 3 months ago
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Two Year Delay in Building New KHs - What Is the Real Impact?
by committeechairman 3 months ago



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Special Assembly: CO admits the grip is tightning.....
by yourmomma 5 years ago 101 Replies latest 5 years ago   watchtower beliefs
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flipper
flipper 5 years ago

BTTT . A very important thread. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
 
agonus
agonus 5 years ago

So feeling like you're in control is one of Satan's tricks, eh?

I wonder if the Governing Body is aware of this...
 
Sayswho
Sayswho 5 years ago

agonus: Good point...that makes sense when you allow your mind to think about what is being said.
◦So you are only or should only be in control of yourself long enough to relinquish control to someone else...like them...THINK ABOUT IT

Sw
 
Mad Sweeney
Mad Sweeney 5 years ago

Lots of college graduates don't get jobs in "their field" because after four or five years of college these young people are just a little bit sick of "their field" at graduation. Some, of course, love it and stay with it for life. Many others are still exploring the world, trying to find out what they really want to do, and for many of them, it is NOT what they studied in college.
That doesn't mean that education was wasted. They have a foundation in a major field as well as most likely somewhat of a foundation in liberal arts (which REALLY scares the Borg). And eventually, some of those who didn't follow thier major into a job DO return to "their field" of study as a career. See, there's this thing the Borg honchos know nothing about; it is called FREEDOM. People with college degrees have MORE freedom to choose their career path, regardless of their major.
How many JWs kids are told: "you can be anything you want when you grow up!"?
 
miseryloveselders
miseryloveselders 5 years ago

How many JWs kids are told: "you can be anything you want when you grow up!"?

Wow, that is something when you think about it.
 
Mad Sweeney
Mad Sweeney 5 years ago

It was one of my key motivations to get out NOW before my kid's too far along in indoctrination. I was a teenager in the 80s and as such, college was forbidden. When the Borg came out with their softened stance regarding higher education in the 90s I was PISSED. I have never gotten over that. Then, when the Borg began cracking down on college again, I saw that my child was likely to go through the same thing I did unless I got her out of the cult asap. Our children's future careers shouldn't be dependent on the whims of a handful of crackpots who have never worked a full-time job in their lives.
 
sd-7
sd-7 5 years ago

This was such a classic thread that I just had to read the responses for everyone. The idea that JWs are living under 'Kingdom control' is contrary to even JWs' teachings. They are, at best, FUTURE subjects of the Kingdom, seeking first the Kingdom, but...living under Kingdom control NOW? Sounds like somebody forgot what Paul said about this subject:
"You men already have your fill, do you? You are rich already, are you? You have begun ruling as kings without us, have you? And I wish indeed that you had begun ruling as kings, that we also might rule with you as kings." (1 Cor. 4:8)
How arrogant to essentially claim Kingdom authority before Jesus has granted it to anyone who is still on Earth! Even by JW standards, this is out there. Even when I was hardcore JW, I would've raised an eyebrow at that kind of statement. And the money issue...nope, that would've gone completely ignored by me. I'm not giving you a bunch of my hard-earned money. You seem to be doing just fine, and this money isn't going straight to God, it's going to you, so you don't have to do a 9 to 5 like I do--or take a browbeating about not putting in enough hours like I do.
Yeah. Guess that's why I eventually left. At an assembly last year, the CO practically yelled, "You don't deserve a vacation--that's Satan's thinking!" I looked around to see if there was any reaction, but the audience looked mummified. Nobody was even blinking. So...all things considered, I can see why somebody still under the spell would think that CO's talk was a forgery. Heck, my brother claimed the pre-1950 Watchtowers I found online were forgeries. Comparing them to every quote from PRE-1950 WTs made in POST-1950 WTs, I have yet to find a single quote that wasn't identical in these supposed forgeries.
I know it's an overused quote, but, "The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
--sd-7
 
Mad Sweeney
Mad Sweeney 5 years ago

How arrogant to essentially claim Kingdom authority before Jesus has granted it to anyone who is still on Earth! Even by JW standards, this is out there.
They've been setting it up for awhile now, though. Over the last few years they have established the Governing Body and NO OTHER ANOINTED as the ONLY authority to be obeyed by faithful JWs. From there it is only a small step to having already 'begun ruling as kings.' It isn't really even a complicated next step in doctrine to go there. They can spin it so that the rank and file anointed have to wait until they die faithfully before they can rule but the GB were put on the fast-track by holy spirit and so they're already in charge. If they feel it is in the best interests of the corporation to do that, they will.
 
sd-7
sd-7 5 years ago

Interesting theory, Mad Sweeney. I, of all people, would know how easy it would be to shift into that notion officially. I could write the article for them, if they wanted. You hear me, Bethel? I could write the article for you. Just get me one of those top-of-the-line Buicks, and I'll call it even!
--sd-7
 
designs
designs 5 years ago

Mad-
You're on a roll
 
miseryloveselders
miseryloveselders 5 years ago

It was one of my key motivations to get out NOW before my kid's too far along in indoctrination. I was a teenager in the 80s and as such, college was forbidden. When the Borg came out with their softened stance regarding higher education in the 90s I was PISSED. I have never gotten over that. Then, when the Borg began cracking down on college again, I saw that my child was likely to go through the same thing I did unless I got her out of the cult asap. Our children's future careers shouldn't be dependent on the whims of a handful of crackpots who have never worked a full-time job in their lives.

This could have been written by my sister as she feels the exact same way. There's a significant age difference between her and myself. I asked her some time ago before I started lurking here whether or not she remembered convention talks that subliminally criticized marriage while at the same time encouraged pioneering during the 80's. I was a kid then, but I always seemed to remember that for some reason to this day. I figured she would have remembered this. What prompted me to ask the question was a discussion I had with my uber-brainwashed mother who firmly denies the WT ever discouraged marriage for pioneering either in printed word, or spoken from the platform. So the next time I saw and spoke with my sister I asked her. She remembered and verified it for me. It led to us conversing about other related matters such as education. She told me, "you had it better than we did. We couldn't even consider a two year college."
Her and her husband both are doing pretty well for themselves, but she's expressed to me on more than one occasion that pioneering was a waste of time, and she did it for a good decade from what I remember. She's expressed gratitude toward my father who demanded that she stop pioneering back then, if only momentarily, in order to go school briefly so she would be able take care of herself. The part time job she had while pioneering was insufficient for life's necessities. My dad worked hard to make sure we weren't raised in the projects. He viewed her pioneering and part time work as building a future towards the projects or similar. She went through a crash course that got her better part time employment, and then she pioneered for some time afterwards. Eventually she saw the futility in pioneering, and started working full time, and she got married. When she stated that my generation of JWs had it better than her generation, she was speaking on the laxing of anti-college sentiments when I was a teenager. Like you said Mad Sweeny, they're tightening their grip again. The most recent assembly had a speaker liken those who pursue higher education to seeking a better cabin room on the Titanic.
 
sd-7
sd-7 5 years ago

convention talks that subliminally criticized marriage while at the same time encouraged pioneering during the
[fill in the blank]. I remember that this was a CONSTANT, CONSTANT theme in EVERY assembly or convention I ever went to as a teenager, and that was in the '90s/early '00s. And it wasn't subliminal at my assemblies and conventions, it was overt.
There was a picture in a recent publication, might've been "Live With Jehovah's Day in Mind", where the young JW is considering his future. On one side, he is rich, successful, and on a yacht sipping champagne with his wife. On the other side, he is alone, in field service. After I looked at it long enough, I realized that there was no woman with him on the other side. "Subtle," I thought. "They're implying that he's not married." I think I figured that out long before I even started asking questions about the religion. I always hated the way they put down an establishment that was supposedly a 'divine arrangement', marriage. Some of the elders looked like they were only married to their wives because they'd get in trouble if they divorced. I could sense it, for some reason.
Gee, that reminds me of an entirely unrelated personal anecdote. I was friends with an elder's son--the whole family was supercharged, like they were one big JW energy drink--and I was visiting them at home one day. The elder was going out, like, 3 blocks away, to pick up some pizza. His son was going with him, and I'd wanted to stay there and wait for them to get back. The elder's wife was upstairs. The elder paused with a moment of suspicion, and then told his son to stay behind while he went to get the pizza. I was like, okay...what was that about? And then it occurred to me. Oh! In the time it takes him to drive 3 blocks, pick up the pizza and come back, his wife will presumably have rushed down the stairs and ripped my clothes off in a heat of immoral passion and he'll walk in on it! What was I thinking?!
If true Christians who have no romantic attraction at all can't be alone for 5 minutes in the same house without committing fornication, obviously the training isn't going very well.
Anyway, I never really gave thought to pioneering myself, beyond auxiliary pioneering, since it seemed like all the pioneers were tired and busy with no time for themselves. How they even found time or energy to study was beyond me. Well, the 'self-abuse' problem, once the elders knew about it, kept me thoroughly disqualified from even auxiliary pioneering for the remainder of my stay in the cult. I guess it worked out. If I could keep my average around 7 or 8 hours a month it was a miracle.
--sd-7
 
MrMonroe
MrMonroe 5 years ago

It's difficult to know just how "official" this guy's comments were. I think we've all encountered Witnesses with a measure of seniority who tend to run off at the mouth with their own private interpretations. When I was first studying, an elder referred repeatedly to God using anti-matter after Armageddon to remove all the bodies and buildings. Others have similarly talked from the platform of their own wacky theories.
It's possible that, since no one else seems to have heard this comment at a convention, this guy was getting carried away with his own sense of self-grandeur. "Jehovah is USING me right now!" Speakers like that probably do it with the certain knowledge that people will be talking about HIS talk for months.
"Kingdom control" is a phrase the WTS would be trying very hard NOT to use. It's fascinating, and another indication of the bubble circuit and district overseers live in, but I don't think it indicates a trend. My view only, but many thanks for the recording.
 
hamsterbait
hamsterbait 5 years ago

Mr Monroe-
The comment about antimatter being used after Armageddon comes from the book "The Nations shall know that I am Jehovah" -
It uses the phrase in connection with how so few witlesses can clear away so many dead bodies with the phrase "be it antimatter or not."
This book also states that the Great Tribulation WILL break out before the end of the 20th century, and that JWs act as "the mouthpiece of Jehovah, his PROPHET"
Another book (now expunged from the CD) "Life Everlasting in the Freedom of the Sons of God" states that Christs Millennial reign will end in 2975. (in a chronological chart)
Most of these "esoteric" statements can be traced to some detail in the litterature of the time. Like pharisees the speakers often grab some detail to back their own hobby horse.
HB
 
familycomesfirst4
familycomesfirst4 5 years ago

To add to some of comments and quotes from the talk, here's a few more:
**The thought he gives at the beginning about how "some have exploited the poor and called it the lottery. some have killed our unborn and called it choice." is taken almost word-for-word from a Reverend's famous public prayer.
Here's the link: http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/prayernation.asp

Some other interesting quotes with minute markers:
9 min: "I look back 52 years & I have not been misled by Jehovah or His Organization"
10 min: "You look at this well watered garden that we are having right now...this convention we had recently "Remain close to Jehovah"---did you count how many pieces of literature that was released at this convention? Six items we got!....When was the last time you remember receiving 6 pieces of releases at one convention?!"
"Yes it's going to be like a well watered garden....the waters of which do not lie"
26 min: "He [satan] is really going to use some undermining ways....Brothers don't let him do that"
"here is one thing he will use: Independent Thinking".
32 min: "There's another thing that Satan's coming up with & this is to you, young parents. This is the problem of higher education" "Would you risk your child's relationship with Jehovah for a college education?"
?? min: "If we do that [watch r-rated movies and violent entertainment] we are actually training ourselves to turn on individuals when the end comes. Would you want to do that?"
?? min: [Speaking of recent vampire shows/movies] "Is there a good vampire and bad vampire? A vampire's a vampire. Because vampire's drink blood, and blood is sacred" he then goes on further why you don't want any part of that.
55 min: "As an organization we're gonna go through this system of things into Gods' righteous new world. And many of us will probably go through alive"
59 min: [speaking of all active publishers] "Hold on, man. Hold on to the ship, brothers. Please don't leave."
 
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 5 years ago

LOL!!@Mary!!..
 Frigg`n Brilliant!!..







 ...................... ...OUTLAW
 
parabola
parabola 5 years ago

...DAMN this is good stuff. my thanks to all for contributing. it's as if my life has flashed before my eyes. i read ALL of the posts.
 
Vidiot
Vidiot 5 years ago

sd-7 - "And then it occurred to me. Oh! In the time it takes him to drive 3 blocks, pick up the pizza and come back, his wife will presumably have rushed down the stairs and ripped my clothes off in a heat of immoral passion and he'll walk in on it! What was I thinking?!"
Either that, or concerned about how it might "appear" to whoever might (on the off chance) be watching.
So, paranoid? Or shallow? Hmm....
 
ThomasCovenant
ThomasCovenant 5 years ago

Hamsterbait said
''Another book (now expunged from the CD) "Life Everlasting in the Freedom of the Sons of God" states that Christs Millennial reign will end in 2975. (in a chronological chart)''

I've never heard of that one before. Sounds good
 
Peaches1978
Peaches1978 5 years ago

And of course there is no sight of DAVID17... what happened boo boo did you do a hit and run and you cant face the facts....
 

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Topic Summary
what im about to post is the exact words from the co during the last talk of the most recent special assembly day.
even though im out i still try to keep up with what is being said just cause i find it interesting, and alot of stuff i find funny, but this stuff is starting to get scary, and i fear for my friends who are still in.
here are the exact words:.



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Special Assembly: CO admits the grip is tightning.....
by yourmomma 5 years ago 101 Replies latest 5 years ago   watchtower beliefs
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brotherdan
brotherdan 5 years ago

I haven't read through all 6 pages of this, but just want to clarify one point (if it hasn't already been done). John Williams is not a CO. He works in the Service department at the Watchtower Education Center in Patterson. I knew him well during my time at Bethel. He is a very nice guy...but super glued to the organization.
I can personally testify that this is him speaking and he is a bethelite.
That being said, I listened to this talk and was saddened. I could just imagine all the heads shaking up and down when he was talking about "Kingdom control".
 
Roski
Roski 5 years ago

Teaching English overseas is now quite popular for young uni graduates. Taking a job outside of their country is not because their education is useless but rather due to the economic situation of the home country. Often this (language) is not their major but the degree allows them to get a position anyway. If sensible, they are able to save quite a bit of money, travel and get some life experience - but usually only with a degree.
 

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Topic Summary
what im about to post is the exact words from the co during the last talk of the most recent special assembly day.
even though im out i still try to keep up with what is being said just cause i find it interesting, and alot of stuff i find funny, but this stuff is starting to get scary, and i fear for my friends who are still in.
here are the exact words:.



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What's up with the HEBREWS translation?
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cognitivedizzy
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by cognitivedizzy 5 months ago
Tenacious
Has anyone noticed how in the October JW Broadcast, Losch encourages good works towards ALL people?
by Tenacious 5 months ago
Greybeard
The KEY WORD in Isaiah 44:25-26 is "Predictions" and the apostles NEVER made any predictions setting dates.
by Greybeard 3 months ago
committeechairman
Two Year Delay in Building New KHs - What Is the Real Impact?
by committeechairman 3 months ago



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New donation arrangement - double the contributions
by Splash 2 years ago 9 Replies latest 2 years ago   watchtower scandals
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Splash
Splash 2 years ago

In the March 29th 2014 BoE letter to be read to the congregations, this new donation arrangement is stated to be "an adjustment to financing Kingdom Hall and Assembly Hall construction worldwide".
This arrangement will remove the low-receipt Kingdom Hall Construction Worldwide (KHCW) contribution boxes from kingdom halls.
Incidentally, this used to be called the Society Kingdom Hall Fund (SKHF) but this too never received very many contributions, even after it was rebranded and relaunched as KHCW.
So how to increase revenues - another relaunch.
This time the voluntary and anonymous aspect is being focussed on, with a 'group responsibility' mindset instead.
Don't ask the individuals to think about and contributing, ask the congregation as a whole, then fix it into a bank payment so it never gets forgotten and never decreases.
So why is this thread called 'double contribution'?
The letter to be read says that this money will be used to "support the construction of theocratic facilities wherever they are needed".
So how does this differ from the Worldwide Work contribution box, according to a 2005 Kingdom Ministry?
*** km 4/05 p. 1 par. 2 Do Good and Share With Others ***
One way we can benefit others is by sharing our “valuable things.” (Prov. 3:9) Our contributions to the worldwide work make it possible for Kingdom Halls, Assembly Halls, and branch facilities to be built throughout the world.
So essentially, there will now be a contribution box AND a monthly congregation bank order to send money to the Society, which will be used for the vague purpose of constructing "theocratic facilities", whatever that may include.
Like docile sheep, JW's have been fleeced for decades. It's only getting more intense.
My suggestion, if there's any opportunity to ask questions on the night, is to publicly ask "If we already donate to the worldwide work which is also used to build facilities, what's the difference between that and this new arrangement? Why do we need to donate to both?"
Even if there is no opportunity to ask this publicly, discuss it privately after the announcement.
You never know, a simple thought like this might get congregation members reasoning for themselves, after all, JW's are notoriously tight fisted when they can reason their way out of spending money.
Splash
 
emeth
emeth 2 years ago

Splash said


My suggestion, if there's any opportunity to ask questions on the night, is to publicly ask "If we already donate to the worldwide work which is also used to build facilities, what's the difference between that and this new arrangement? Why do we need to donate to both?"
Answer ... you dont have to donate anything if you dont want to donate anything.
 
blondie
blondie 2 years ago

As long as donating remains an anonymous practice. My husband's experience as an accounts servant for 10 years that a small core of jws donated for the operating costs of the local KH and the mortgage when they had one. Mortgage paid = less money donated not a continuation of the same unless they were saving up for a renovation. No corresponding increase in donating to the worldwide work which was perceived as money given by the householder (if jws ask for money it is only if they place literature, no literature no money is asked for...not official WTS but practice in congregations) When was the last time any active jws on here or ex-jws observed a jw asking for money from someone at the door that had not taken literature?
I have seen where jws turn in anonymous slip to the elders that they can give $X one time, $X monthly for building up funds to build or renovate a KH on the honor basis. But in the US if you give $250 or more in one donation it must be certified with a signed letter by the KH in order to report it on your annual tax form to the government. While this information is only to be accessed by the accounts servant and the COBOE, do other elders have access, depends on the BOE.
So in the end (in the US)
1) donate under the $250 barrier requiring written identification by the IRS (if you claim that deduction)
2) do not have it taken out of your bank account or write a check...give cash (if you give)
3) be ambiguous if asked directly if or what you have given or turn it around and ask that individual what they gave
4) don't be guilted from the platform, no one knows what you have given or promised (except god if he is paying attention to such small things)
If jws were truly generous in helping out other congregations, this change would not be necessary. I have seen congregations in the same town unwilling to give their excess to another congregation trying to build a new KH let alone a nameless one in another country. Most jws only give if they see they are receiving something in return, status/position, business connections/more money, and of course an assurance that they can "buy" everlasting life.

 
KateWild
KateWild 2 years ago


If jws were truly generous in helping out other congregations, this change would not be necessary.-Blondie
I agree. I know many JWs who are just interested in themselves and their own progress. Some were kind hearted, but in no financial position to donate large sums.
Kate xx
 
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 2 years ago

But in the US if you give $250 or more in one donation it must be certified with a signed letter by the KH in order to report it on your annual tax form to the government.
The IRS has increased the "standard deduction" to the level that very few need to prepare a Schedule A which allows deduction of charitable contributions. To qualify, your deductions for things like: home mortgage interest, real estate taxes, out-of-pocket medical costs, and charitable contributions, but exceed $12,000. It is almost necessary that one have a big mortgage for this items to exceed the standard deduction. Like most Americans, only the middle class and wealthy JWs will be able to itemize and deduct their contributions to WTS. As noted in the Pew Surveys, JWs are about the lowest rung financially of all religious groups.
Doc
 
JustVisting
JustVisting 2 years ago

Splash: Double Contribution, should be rebranded "Double Corban"
 
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 2 years ago

Many Jws are the worst "Christians" they are outwarldy pious and love terminology like "Worldwide Brotherhood" and "true worship." The reality is that they just want to live their own lives for the most part, and would rather not sully their hands with other people's problems. They rarely know what is going on within the congregation, besides rumors. They will "help" in a limited way. As long as Congregation Member X is a plastic believer, they get phone calls and "assistance" from the Eldubs. If you have a real problem , you are more than likely DF'd, abandoned when you REALLY need help. Remember, theses are the guys who say chanting, " I am an Integrity Keeper", will stop you from eating a bullet.

I love how EMETH disappears from JWN, and comes back to comment on certain topics. There is a very clear pattern. What is important to the higher-ups, is what EMETH defends. You won't find any morally responsible comments from EMETH. He/she is right, JWs don't HAVE to donate anything, just like they don't HAVE to refuse a blood transfusion for a dying family member, and don't HAVE to drive 2 hours and spend $500.00 to attend a CA. They also don't HAVE to get an hourly quota in field service, ect.. They don't HAVE to shun df'd family members.Yes, there are many things that JWs don't HAVE to do.

THE TRUTH INSPIRES GENEROUS GIVING 5/1/55 WT
MAN’S WAY NOT GOD’S WAY
Where does all the money come from? How is it gathered? From a few rich men interesting themselves in this work? No; for the Bible tells us that God’s kingdom message would not appeal to the rich, and the facts bear this out. Or do Jehovah’s witnesses operate bingo games or operate other games of chance such as raffling off automobiles at $10 a chance as some Roman Catholic churches do? No; for they recognize that by appealing to the desire to get something for nothing they would be encouraging selfishness, whereas Christianity is the very essence of unselfishness.
Neither does the Watch Tower Society send out professional pledge takers who parrot the sales talks of financial wizards by telling congregations that “statistics show that your family, your business, and your community will prosper in accordance with what you and others give. The more you invest therein the more you will get out.” Nor does it send out church canvassers as did the Episcopal church of the diocese of Long Island, New York, late in 1954, when 3,500 canvassers sought to collect 4 1⁄2 million dollars for that church. No; the Watch Tower Society does not solicit and never has solicited funds by any such means, for it holds that it is doing the work of God and therefore it would be most inconsistent for it to beg help for carrying on God’s work when he states that all the gold and silver and the cattle on a thousand hills belong to him.—Hag. 2:8; Ps. 50:10.


What's the difference in sending out "professional pledge takers" or "canvassers" and having a captive audience of 8 Million JWs pledge a certain amount every month?!?! Answer: The WTBTS's way is a much more reliable form of solicitation!! Yes, they were not lying when they said, " No; the Watch Tower Society does not solicit and never has solicited funds by any such means..." The GB are much more cunning in their solicitations! As SPLASH said, the pressure of the group will ensure that the money flows in.

From WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY:
so·lic·it
verb \sə- ˈ li-sət\
: to ask for (something, such as money or help) from people, companies, etc.
: to ask (a person or group) for money, help, etc.

Examples of so·lic·it:
1.The organization is soliciting for donations.

Is it true that the WTBTS never solicits for money???

DD
 
blondie
blondie 2 years ago

Hi DOC, I guess I wasn't totally clear about the $250 and above IRS rule. It means that jws will not have to reveal their donations or lack thereof to the elder body. Then if they do give, they can give cash, do not use checks or an electronic transfer. It would be a big step by the WTS to "force" jws to give the elders or the WTS such wide access to their financial records. Many jws vote with their pocketbook; something happens at the KH they don't like (personal interactions e.g.) they stop giving money. I remember one elder not in favor of a renovation suggestion by another elder, announced the payment of the mortgage and then said "now you don't have to donate as much any more" and the donations plummeted (my husband was accounts servant).
I know the WTS when it's about money...no word legal agreements...sign on the dotted line (scriptural you know). So is the WTS going to forgive all these mortgages and then have each congregation sign another document legally agreeing to pay at a minimum the monthly mortgage they had been paying. Then the congregation as a whole is liable with the elders being representative signers. But will the WTS sign individual documents with each family head...legally obligating them...it would be a new procedure and not a welcome one and not in agreement with CTR policy.

*** br84 p. 4 Watch Tower Society Takes Over a Work Already Begun ***
This magazine was published to keep to the fore the doctrine of the ransom and also the blessings to come to mankind as a result of it. The printing of the first issue was 6,000. Russell pledged that, in connection with the publishing of this magazine, they would not beg for money but depend entirely on voluntary contributions. This principle was also applied to all meetings, which were advertised with the slogan “Seats Free—No Collections.”
 
EndofMysteries
EndofMysteries 2 years ago



"Our contributions to the worldwide work make it possible for Kingdom Halls, Assembly Halls, and branch facilities to be built throughout the world."

Now I get it, they are selling off all of the assembly halls and branch facilities that were by free labor and donations to pocket the coin then pretend they never existed to then ask for more donations and free labor to build assembly halls and branch facilities to then sell off again and repeat the cycle. Kinda like the generation teachings. They must have figured if all the jw's will buy the cycle of their teachings, they'll prob buy the new donation and building cycle as well.
 
themaccauk11
themaccauk11 2 years ago

MORTGAGE PLUS INTEREST taking more money from the poor. Amazingly once the kingdom hall is paid for it is still ownedby the society
 

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I'll Take Your Literature if You Take Mine
by VM44 3 years ago 12 Replies latest 3 years ago   watchtower beliefs
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VM44
VM44 3 years ago

In the September, 2013 OKM, September, on page 3 appears "I'll Take Your Literature if You Take Mine."
----
That is the proposition of some householders. Since we do not exchange our Bible study aids for religious literature that disseminates error, how might we answer tactfully? (Rom. 1:25) We could say: "Thank you for your offer. What does this say about the solution to mankind's problems? [Allow for response. If he invites you to read his literature to find the answer, you can remind him that you did not offer literature without telling him what it contains. Then read or quote Matthew 6:9,10.] Jesus indicated that God's Kingdom will cause God's will to be done on earth. Therefore, the only religious literature that I read highlights God's Kingdom. May I show you from the Bible some specific things that God's Kingdom will accomplish?"
----
The JWs are NOT to receive any religious material from the householder.
But saying that "the only religious literature that I read highlights God's Kingdom." does not seem correct. It assumes that the householder's literature does not itself highlight God's Kingdom.
Furthermore, it is not accurate in that many JWs read books and publications not published by The Watchtower.
Saying what the Kingdom Ministry suggests say to a person at the door would not be completely correct, but simply a means to avoid accepting what the householder offers.
 
VM44
VM44 3 years ago

So "the only religious literature that I read highlights God's Kingdom."?
Rather, "the GB often relies on "worldly wisdom" from old books and dead opposers, who were educated by, and members of "apostate Christendom.""
The JWs should really be more honest when speaking to people at their homes.
http://www.freeminds.org/history/busselmn.htm
reprint from the Mar/Apr 1996 Free Minds Journal
reprints of the Free Minds Journal
New Light
from Old Books and Dead Opposers
by Gary Busselman
In support of their recent Biblical interpretation change concerning "this generation" (Matt. 24:34), the Governing Body (hereafter GB) of Jehovah's Witnesses submitted four documents. (Watchtower, 11/1/95, p. 12)
Those were:
1. Walter Bauer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament.
2. W.E. Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words.
3. J.H. Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament.
4. The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (1964), edited by Gerhard Kittle.
After reading the November 1, 1995 Watchtower, my friend, Steven A. Hickey, pastor of Harvest Covenant Church in Sioux Falls, SD (also a Biblical scholar and theologian) asked me, "How do they get 'new light' from a guy who's been dead for a hundred years?" In my research that he inspired, I found that the GB often relies on "worldly wisdom" from old books and dead opposers, who were educated by, and members of "apostate Christendom." (Sorry folks, Watchtower language, not mine.) Here are some additional facts regarding these sources.
1. Walter Bauer (1877-1960), German lexicographer. Taught at Gottingen from 1916 to 1945. (Wycliffe Biographical Dictionary of the Church, 1982, Moody Press, Chicago.)
2. William Edwy Vine (1873-1949), vocal OPPOSER of Jehovah's Witnesses, called their teachings of conditional salvation, the denials of the Deity of Christ, and the Trinity heresies. [Vine was appealed to by the Watchtower 52 times in their encyclopedic Insight on the Scriptures alone.] Greek scholar, educator, editor, pastor and author, educated at University College of Wales; BA & MA in "Ancient Classics" from University of London, pastor at Manvers Hall Church in Bath for 40 years. Celebrated Christmas, believed in Hell and that Christ is God, that He died on a CROSS, it is proper to address Him in prayer, and that all believers partake in the Lord's Supper.
Vine denied the concept of an early Christian "organization," and a "selective" resurrection. He wrote two volumes on the "End Times" and the parousia. Vine taught that parousia should not be translated at all and that it (parousia) will start with the rapture of the Church, (when believers meet Christ in the air) and it will end with the manifestation of Christ in glory. (Publisher's Forward of Vine's Expository, 1981 ed.and W.E. Vine, His Life and Ministry, Oliphants LTD, London, 1951)
3. Joseph Henry Thayer (1828 -1901), New Testament lexicographer, born in Boston, MA, College at Harvard and seminary at Andover. Ordained a pastor in the Congregational Church in 1859.Professor of sacred literature at Andover Theological Seminary (1864-1882).Lecturer at Harvard Divinity School (1883-1901). Instrumental in founding the American School of Oriental Research in Jerusalem. (Wycliffe Biographical Dictionary of the Church, 1982, Moody Press, Chicago.)
4. Gerhard Kittle (1888-1948), German biblical scholar, born in Breslau, Germany. Instructor at Kiel (1913) and Leipzig (1917), professor of New Testament at Greifswalg (1921-1926) (ibid. p. 229)
Similarly, the Watchtower publication Insight On The Scriptures, vol. 1, p. 440 applies for credibility citing the following sources of "worldly wisdom":
1. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, James Strong (1822-1894), Methodist biblical scholar and educator. A member of the Anglo-American Bible Revision Committee. (Wycliffe Biographical Dictionary of the Church, 1982, Moody Press, Chicago, p. 385)
2. Edward Robinson's Greek and English Lexicon, Edward Robinson (1794-1863), American biblical scholar, studied at Hamilton College and learned Greek at Andover Theological Seminary. Did much research and theological writing. (Who Was Who in Church History, Moody Press, Chicago, 1962.)
What do these Watchtower sources all have in common?
a. They are all dead. (Long-time dead men don't usually write, call or show up on videos.)
b. They were all college educated (unlike most Witnesses I know). And they read Greek and Hebrew (unlike all Witnesses I know).
c. None were Jehovah's Witnesses. All were students of, and/or members of "Christendom."
d. All were writers of what the Watchtower calls "wisdom of the world."
 
Cold Steel
Cold Steel 3 years ago

On the one hand, the JWs are told that they need to understand other religions, then, on the other hand, they're told not to read anyone else's literature. Why is this? Do they fear their missionaries...er...publishers...becoming converted? Or do they fear they might see other interpretations of scripture which might make better sense.
When I took the "Bible study" the JWs first offered me, I thought it would be a Bible study. Instead, they gave me a tiny book and asked me strawman questions. As a Mormon, I didn't want to tell them of my religion, but they kept persisting in asking me. Not knowing any better, I tried reasoning with them. "If I tell you my religion," I told them, "you'll start talking about what's wrong with it rather than telling me what you think about yours." They assured me they would not, so I asked them that since I didn't agree with most of their "answers" in the book, whether it would be okay if we just proceeded with the study.
We got through that session just fine, but the next time they came, they brought an "elder" with them. This guy immediately began asking me questions and it wasn't long before I could tell he had been reading anti-Mormon literature. That was fine with me, but he began to be aggressive and eventually downright mean spirited. He leaned forward while the other two fellows looked at him as though he were Ghandi. From what he was saying, I could even tell which books he'd been reading. I persisted, answering his questions and at the end, he would barely shake my hand. When they left, the other two said they would call me for my next session. They never did. I never saw any of the three again.
If someone was going to learn about another religion, I'd expect them to read the source material including the foundational literature. I wondered how the elder would have responded had I pulled out my copy of "Dr." Walter Martin's Kingdom of the Cults and began reading to him the chapter on Jehovah's Witnesses? Wouldn't he have suggested that I read his literature instead of someone's who was so blatantly anti-JW?
So how can they know anything about a religion without reading about it? And of course there's the obvious hypocrisy in the expectation that you read their literature while they toss yours into the nearest waste bin. Obviously, most people who have religious material can answer a stupid question like, "What does this say about the solution to mankind's problems?" Gee, what if the guy answers the question, what do you do then?
If publishers agree to read someone's literature if he reads theirs, can they get in trouble with their leaders? What if the guy's an elder? Does he have permission to read it? How does it work??
 
Ding
Ding 3 years ago

The GB must really be paranoid.
Why not tell JWs to take it and throw it away instead of offending the householder?
Because they're afraid if they take it, they'll read it!
 
WinstonSmith
WinstonSmith 3 years ago

Back in New Zealand we had a old brother who used to reply like this:
"No thanks.I made the effort to come to your door today. If you come to mine I'll take it."
The day he said it when out with me a householder said "Okay, what's your address?"
The old bro says "Smith Street."
The HH said "What number?"
The old bro said "Just knock on all of them, you'll find me."
Hilarious!
 
Fernando
Fernando 3 years ago

It is my observation that no one fears reading Watchtower publications more than the followers of the Watchtower.
I'll take your literature once you've read it, and can answer a few questions from it.


◦Is "legalism" apostasy?

◦What is the gospel in one word?

◦Why is the "Good News" according to Paul, Moses, Isaiah and Psalms not in the hearts or on the lips of those claiming to be "publishers of the Good News"?

 
Nickolas
Nickolas 3 years ago

Dropped in to JWN see if if anything's changed. This is the most recent thread in the Active list so dropped in to it next. Looks like nothing's changed. Theists still debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Literature is not Reality but someone's proxy for it. Yours or the other guy's, doesn't matter. His Reality is not the same as everyone else's - his Truth is not going to be the same as yours. Take a minute. A Muslim's Reality, what he or she believes to be True is not going to be the same as your Reality, unless you happen to be a Muslim. Ditto a Jehovah's Witness's Reality. Or a Buddhist's Reality, or a Mormon's, or a Jew's or a Sikh's, or a Baptist Christian's, or a Lutheran Christian's, or an Anglican Christian's or a Scientologist's or a Fill-in-the-blank's Reality. All are compelled to print and distribute words about what they are convinced is Real because they recognise themselves as Special. Blessed. Chosen. Part of an elite in-crowd chosen by the Creator of the Universe Himself to inherit Creation itself. Such arrogance. Literature is words printed on paper, neither of which is particularly rare or precious and none of which is consistent. If your Reality is anchored in Faith or Literature then you've got a problem. Those whose different Realities are likewise anchored in Faith are just as convinced that they are Right and you are Wrong. And you think the same but also the opposite. Right and Wrong. Black and White. They're Right, you're Wrong. Or is it you're Right and they're Wrong? It's hard to keep up. The key to truth is to cast off certainty and embrace doubt, neither of which the Watchtower or any other faith-based system will allow you to do. In your short lifetime you will able to grasp the tiniest fraction of what is True no matter how smart and gifted you are and how long you get to live. The best you can do is increase the fraction by filtering out the bullshit. Forget about literature that represents itself to provide the answers. Whether yours or theirs. You should not be afraid of the questions you cannot answer but only of the questions you cannot ask. I don't know what is True but I'm building on it. I do know what is Not True. So do you. Figure it out.
 
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 3 years ago

Yes the JW's will talk about a kingdom but not about the Good news that the apostles talked about, for they did not mention a kingdom they talked about Christ and the 'good news' was that Jesus is the messiah and he died for our sins was raised on the 3rd day showing that we can be raised on the last day. He also offers a gift of salvation. What better news is there and how is the news about a kingdom better? Its not and thats why the apostles didnt talk about it. Paul also mention that anyone speaking a different message be curst.
 
Nickolas
Nickolas 3 years ago

Commenting in here is like farting in space. Nobody hears and nobody cares. (Except, of course, you being confined in your space suit with the remnant of yesterday's jalapeno burrito.)
 
jwfacts
jwfacts 3 years ago

 What arrogance.
 
Fernando
Fernando 3 years ago

Nickolas, if you were interested, and I respect that you may not be, you might be surprised at the astounding commonalities hidden in plain sight in the Judeo-Christian-Muslim scriptures.
Gospel/bissar/injeel/injil and at least 15 common prophets...
Why then you might ask is not at least half the planet united?
The answer, from my perspective is religion - something not sponsored by Abraham or Jesus/Messiah/Isa, but rather by the "god of religion" our "evil step father".


(Why does the "true religion" secretly blind its followers to the liberating "Good News" according to Paul, Moses, Isaiah and Psalms?)
 
carla
carla 3 years ago

Outsiders do not understand why jw's cannot/will not accept their literature. Once you explain it to them they often say something like; "oh, so that would be a good way to get rid of them?" Or offer to go to a kh if they will go to your church service, see how that goes! If they supposedly agree, make sure they go to your service first as jw's will always lie just to try and get you in the doors of a kh
 
Nickolas
Nickolas 3 years ago


 What arrogance.
I await enlightenment. Is this where I get banned for speaking my mind?
 

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"Keep Seeking First God's Kingdom!” Regional Convention 2014 - releases and info
by OwnAccord 2 years ago 50 Replies latest 2 years ago   watchtower bible
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OwnAccord
OwnAccord 2 years ago

Info from someone at the Regional Convention:
(Sorry about the format)
Friday releases:
TRACT "what is the kingdom of god?"
 BROCHURE: your family can be happy
 BROCHURE: teach your children

Notes:
Friday Morning
" To You It Is Granted to Understand the Sacred Secrets of the Kingdom"
--Matthew 13:11
9:20 Music
9:30 Song No. 40 and Prayer
9:40 Chairmans Address: Meet Some Who Are Seeking First God's Kingdom
(Revelation 12:1,2,5)
Matthew 6:33 Keep on seeking first the kingdom. the kingdom should be most
important thing In our lives. 100 years of the established kingdom a landmark
year.
Revelation 12:1-2: The excitement in heaven when the kingdom came forth was
great. An historical event!
12:3,4- Satan was trying to destroy what was to happen. This intervention was
soon after the birth so satan was cast out.
12:10- The event that happened. Not an ordinary battle tangible evidence that
Gods Kingdom is ruling. (Luke 21). wars around the World help us to appreciate
where we are in the stream of time. School shootings and other extreme events
help identify.
Daniel 2:44: Kingdom of 1914 and the dominant world power of today
characterizes one era of human history. May be last memorial we are living in the
end of ends now!
Isaiah 48:17- Jehovah is guiding the educational work today. The kingdom makes
and administers Superial laws to guide us.
Kingdom supporters are also organized for global relief e ff orts.
Isaiah 2:2,3- many people to go to the house of Jehovah.
Interview with 2 Missionary's that have benefitted from seeking first the kingdom.
Most important thing was having a meaningful share in this momentous times.
Interview with Need Greaters; blessings received ; moving with the celestial
chariot and the rewards of serving where the people are responding to the truth.
And helping to start new congregations. Knowing the kingdom is the only hope
for mankind. All made their focus the Kingdom interests
2Peter 3:13- The kingdom of Jehovah is established and the stone cut out of the
mountain at Daniel is the global powerful entity that Jesus encouraged us to
seek.
Don't become enamoured with this system and become spiritualy isolated.
WE ARE IN THE CLOSING HOUR!
10:20 Symposium: Appreciating The Thrones of Devine Rulership
Jehovah's Throne.  (Psalm 103:19)
What does the throne signify? Throne denotes royalty and rulership. Jehovah is
the supreme source of all power he has no equal. But his sovereignty goes
beyond physical laws. He also grants authority to others,
1) Why is true theocracy superior to mans governments?
Security and protection to its peoples. Isaiah 33:21: the type of protection we
receive from theocratic rule. Compared to a high level of protection like a
waterway. And a galley fleet warships against us will fail. Isaiah 33:22: Jehovah is
our judge, lawgiver and king. Jehovah has direct control absolute authority! As a
god of love he makes the best decision for our guidance no human government
can do this. all forms of human governments have failed through human history.
they just continue the trend started in the garden of Eden,
Duet 32:4- The rock perfect is his activities, Jehovah is perfect will never misuse
his power. everyday we experience Kingdom blessing from his kingdom rule.
Make our future secure by holding Jehovah's rulership today.
Jesus' Throne.  (Matthew 25:31)
Hebrews 1:8- Jesus throne or authority comes from Jehovah. Jesu throne never
over throne contrasted with human rulers. unlike humans Jesus need no
successors .
Matthew 25:31- Son of man has glorious throne. it's brilliant,triumphant and
permanent.
Jesus sympathizes with our weaknesses.
Col 1:15- He is the image of the invisible god. like a little boy who imitates his
father when a son loves his father he tries to be like him. No one loves Jehovah
like Jesus . His attributes love power wisdom and justice.
In love: Luke 5 :13 (the leper who approached Jesus) he touch the leper
physically in contrast with the law of that day.
Justice: Temple of Jerusalem money changers cheated the people. Jesus drove
them out
Wisdom: Sermon on the mount all his wisdom expressed.
Matthew 6:25- wisdom given don't be anxious. We can can avoid it by giving god
priority. Clear evidence of wisdom from above
power: 30 miracles Hush the storm Walk on water. Power over the demons.
Power to undue death. It's reassuring Jehovah has placed this power in his
hands.
AWESOME VIDEO
Video from big screen on world disasters that this kingdom rule will end.
Appreciate Jesus throne of Devine rulership.
The Thrones of the 144,000.  (Matthew 19:28) (Revelation 20:4)
Matthew 19:28- Jesus assurance that there would be those on thrones with him.
144,000 would rules as kings over the earth. And they would judge the world of
mankind. And share with Jesus in his vast authority. appointed over all his
belongings. Over 8,000,000 witnesses and perhaps 8 billion to be resurrected
they have a job to direct the going ons on the earth. They will help in educating
all the people and healing physically and spiritually. Help Armageddon survivors
to work towards perfection. They will be judges over the wicked angels and of all
mankind.
They must have unique qualities to be able to preform these duties. They will be
good rulers because of their loyalty to the kingdom. Rev 13:4b. They have
tremendous life experiences as men and women from all walks of life. There is
no doubt these ones will be loyal forever. They have loved truth and hated the
bad. Long track record of many decades of faithful service. Each one will have a
personal assurance from Jehovah before the Great Tribulation they are of this
group. They have experienced problems like all of us. They understand our
feelings temptations sicknesses loss of loved ones and temptations of the world.
Victims of racial and social injustices century's past and these last days.
Revelation 20:4- Trials of the anointed ones.
These 144000 have more patients than the angels would be with us.
INTERVIEW. brother who has 50 Years of service alongside anointed ones his
experiences with these ones and how their lives influenced him to serve Jehovah.
They were loyal and patient and supporters of the kingdom always zealous for
the ministry. Humble and willing to assist others.
These rulers with Jesus are perfect rulers for those who will live on the earth.
1john 4:8 why gods rulership is perfect
John 1:15 why Jesus rulership is perfect he imitates his father.
Why anointed rulership good. patient and empathetic.
11:10 Song 108 and Announcements
11:20 A Century of Kingdom Rule Contrasted With a Century of Satan's Rule
(Psalm 40:5) (Isaiah 5:20,21)
100 years ago Russell announced the gentile times have ended.
Gods people are few and not wise according to human standards but have
accomplished much.
In contrast Satan's billions of intellectual ones have not accomplished in the last
century what gods people have.
Satan's rule:
Health and attrition: some diseases have be eradicated but others have risen up
safe abortions: 40,000 000 abortions worldwide no safe abortions
1 in 3 su ff er from hunger and malnutrition
Spiritual malnutrition
Technology mass produced products
Inventions such as airplanes and computer technology. These accomplishments
have attributed to mass loss of lives and world wars.
Violent entertainment
Social reform and Injustices of humans. But not able to change attitudes of
people such as those morally corrupt people. Family life has decayed. These
immoral reforms have raised health problems.
Isaiah 5:20- woe to those who say bad is good good is bad. Woe for the last 100
years.
Kingdom rule contrast :
Spiritual health, Faithful and discreet slave have distributed lituriture, conventions
and other forms of teaching. Promoted the preaching work.much spiritual food
provided.
On a physical level our relief program for disaster relief is unprecedented.
Technology 1914 silent movies were introduced with photo drama of creation
sound and pictures.
1922 broadcast by lectures on wbbr across the country.
1933 phonographs and sound cards
900,000 visits everyday on jw.org.
1950 disfellowshipping arrangement keeps congregation clean.
Technology for improving family life on jw.org.
Interview with 1st Gilead Graduates on the contrast he and she (husband and
wife) has seen between Satan's world and the organization over the last 70 years.
Psalm 40:5- how many things you have done oh Jehovah my God.
Do we appreciate living under kingdom rule. Only after 100 years what it has
accomplished just think what it will do the next 100! Nothing can compare to it!
11:45. Keynote Address: Highly Esteem Present Kingdom Blessings!
(Isaiah 45:17,18) (2 Corinthians 12:2-4) (Titus 1:2)
Speaker quoted from multiple articles from "truth transform lives"
People today are disillusioned by political powers today. What man has done to
achieving peace has been dismal. The charter of the United Nations has been a
failure. No wonder people do not trust governments.
Titus 1:2 in contrast to human rulers; We can trust Jehovah
Joshua 21:45- not a promise failed.
How can we demonstrate confidence.
The benefits over the last 100 years:
Physical benefits; changes the bible has made in people's lives.
Improved lives by making radical changes in their lifestyles. May have even saved
many persons lives. A better quality of life. Those that stayed out of prison.
May have lost family members but gained others fathers and mothers in the
organization.
Isaiah 48:17- How the truth benefits us. Jehovah teaches us through the kingdom
how to walk.
Mental and emotional benefits; Isaiah 48:18- even with all worlds anxieties we
have peace of mind.
Gods approval and self respect.
Family members are happier when applying bible principles.
Eph 4:31,32- If we apply this it helps us mentally and emotionally.
Jehovah helps us with spiritual benefits
Psalm 25:14- Close friendship with Jehovah.
Our theocratic education. Isaiah 15:4- Gives us the tongue of the taught to help
others.
Proverbs 18:10- Protection with Jehovah
We have a real purpose in our lives. We know what the future holds. Where we
are headed hope in the near future.
The spiritual blessings are endless.
VIDEO SHOWN :
Brother who was a minister in the Cabinet of El Salvador Government.
When he learned the truth he resigned his position even thoe he was to be
successor to the country. Knew he had found a way to the real life. He saw the
superiority of the kingdom.
NEW ADJUSTMENT IN THINKING
2 Cor 12:2-4- 3rd heaven represent an (3rd represents the kingdom in elevated
position)
Adjustment:
3rd heaven is messianic kingdom!
Paradise is physical,spiritual, and heavenly!
RELEASE NEW TRACT
WHAT IS THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
5 copies of new tract per person instruction to be released Saturday on how to
use.
12:15 Song 75 and intermission
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Friday Afternoon
1:25 Music
1:35 Song No. 27
1:40 How Babylon the Great Has "Shut Up The Kingdom"
(Matthew 23:2, 4-10, 13, 23, 24,34)
Hypocrite: Belive curtain beliefs but lives are not in harmony with those beliefs.
Jesus used that word 6 di ff erent times in describing the Pharisees. Matthew 23:2
The religious leaders of that time, very versed in the law there teaching became
so unscriptural they became a burden to the people.
Luke 11:52 - took away the key to knowledge to the common people.
Pharisees no longer exist but BTG does.
Rev 18:2, 23- by there words and demonic influences false teaching is around
the world.
Matthew 23:2. Religious leaders of Jesus time compared to today.
Hide Jehovah's name from the people. Take gods name out of many translations
of the bible.
Heavy loads on people. hellfire teaching. Not refreshing. Many people fed up with
BTG.
Rev 23:5-10- Jesus day they like prominent places. Today they wear symbols on
clothing a. Have you use titles whenapproaching these people
individuals...Rabbi preacher etc...
people do a lot of things in gods name. Matthew 23:23;24 false religion tolerates
a lot of things the bible condemns. Pre marital sex. Homosexuals.
2 Tim 4:3: People want their ears tickled.
Matt 23:34- people who worship the true God are opposed and persecuted.
VIDEO PRESENTATION:
Brother who treated priests for phedophial and alcohol abuse. Became
disillusioned over the lies involving the Catholic Church Spent 50 years searching
for the truth. Now he said he found it.
Rev 18:4-Get out of BTG. Are we not grateful to be out of BTG.
We must help others to do the same.
2:00 Symposium: What Must Be Kept in Second Place?
(Matthew 6:33)
Recreation  (Mark 6:31) (John 4:34)
Importance of prioritizing to be successful.
Matthew 6:33-What are these other things? Food clothing etc...but there are
other things.
1) Why does this matter?
2) How can we keep it in its proper place?
We all need to have fun and enjoy life. Good friends...art...the beach...etc they all
make us feel good. Recreation must be kept in proper place though.
Mark 6:31- There was a time when rest from preaching was needed. As important
as preaching work was for Jesus he was not a workaholic. Jesus never regretted
leisure time he spent with friends but never allowed it to over-shadow his primary
work. John 4:34 the preaching and doing gods will was his primary concern. He
rested to help him continue working. Same with us today get our priorities in line.
Taking excessive care of animals and pets can take away From seeking first the
kingdom. Do I let recreation leave me exhausted or take away from preaching
and meetings?
Keep recreation in 2nd Place!
Eating and Drinking  (Ecclesiastes 3:12,13) (Romans 14:17)
Food is very tasty.
1) Why do eating and drinking have a place in our life?
Eccl 3:12;13 For our enjoyment god created food.
2) How do we keep the in our proper place?
Jesus knew food and excellent food. Water into fine wine.
But emphasized spiritual matters greater importance.
Romans 14:17
How can we identify needs for adjustment.
Overweight and obesity can be a medical problem.
But gluttony is di ff erent.
1 Cor 6:12;13- Don't be controlled by food
Or by alcohol.
Soliloquy by brother who had bad day at work and can't find any liquor in the
house and says he really needs a drink. Realizes he is using liquor as a crutch.
Needs to break pattern of coming home and drinking.
Wine is not the answer only makes us forget the question!
We are warned by Jehovah not to use food and drink as a crutch. Follow
Jehovah's loving guidance now and forever in perfection.
Concerns About Health  (Psalm 115:17) (Luke 12:25) (1Timothy 5:23)
Olympic runner 250 lbs over weight can't win the race.
1) Why do concerns about health have a place in our life
Palms 115:17-dead don't praise Jehovah. Dead people most unhealthy people
on earth. Must try to have good health to serve god.
2) How can we keep health in its proper place? Worry about health it becomes
first place in our lives. Luke 12:25 nothing we do can extend our lives.
Watch out about advice we give to others about supplements or treatments when
treating health problems. Don't lose balance and sound thinking on health
matters.
DEMONSTRATION 2 SISTERS IN SERVICE. One has health problem and the
other sister tells her to stay away from doctors. Recommends going on a special
extreme diet. But sister rejects pamphlets on the subject.
We need to be concerned about our brothers or sisters health.
1 Tim 5:23- suggested wine modest advise about health. No where does he talk
about healing herbs or other medicines.
Jehovah doesn't preform miracles but pray for guidance on medical treatment
when doctors are needed.
Courtships and Weddings  (1Corinthians 10:31-35)
Why do courtships and weddings have a place in our lives. Jehovah instituted
marriage.
Proverbs 21:5- Don't rush into a marriage. Wisdom in taking our time. Like going
to a grocery store when hungry buy first thing that looks good. Make out a
grocery (check) list before browsing. Spiritual qualifications important.
How can we keep courtship and weddings in proper place?
Engaging in ministry and meetings together.
1Cor 10:31-33- do all things for gods glory.
Don't let wedding over shadow spiritual things.
Don't have elaborate weddings or expensive garments.
Should have a director of wedding to make sure things are kept modestly.
INTERVIEW WITH COUPLE WHO KEPT THEIR WEDDING SIMPLE
They made sure music was appropriate at wedding and reception.
Simple wedding saved them money.
Family Ties  (Matthew 10:37) (Romans 12:17,18)
Why do family ties have a place in our lives?
It builds up mutual understanding and respect.
To strengthen family ties meetings Study. And field ministry.
Not Christian family members should not be neglected when they have needs
that do not compromise Christian principles.
How do we keep family ties in their proper place?
Many feel little attachment to their family which is not Christian .
But in other places family takes precedent over everything.
Do not compromise miss meetings for relatives or association with
disfellowshipped family members.
Matthew 10:37- do we have greater a ff ection for family than Jehovah.
Luke 14:26- This hate means love to a lesser degree our relatives than for Christ
Jesus.
DEMONSTRATION:
2 ways to deal with compromise with family.
Mother wants son to miss meeting to buy groceries. Goes o ff on her. She rejects
witnesses
The right way. He explains he still loves her and promises he will help her after
meeting. She softened her stand on witnesses.
Romans 12:17;18- be peaceable towards all men. Can help soften relatives
stance towards the truth.
Must be responsible towards all relatives but must be kept in proper place!
Material Pursuits  (1Corinthians 9:24)
Gen 1:31- material things have a proper place in our lives.
we need clothes water and homes. World was created with material things for us
to enjoy life.
1Cor 9:24- 'Material things must be kept in a proper place. Runners need
material things like shoes and food to win race. But if he carries to many other
things like golf clubs, bowling balls and donuts this extra weight will slow the
down.
We us also extra weight material things can weigh us down spiritually. Satan can
use this In the family.
DEMONSTRATION:
Family wants to cut back on expenses so wife can pioneer again. Parents see the
need to cut back on there personal wants. Cut back on credit card expenses can
give them more time to spend with children. No more new purchases use what
they have materially that is still good.
Material things are a means to an end.
Don't be like the donkey who has a carrot dangled in front of face. Never does
get the carrot. Keep worldly desires and pleasure in the back place of our lives.
Matthew 6:33. Having a family does not mean neglect our spirituality because
we have a family.
Keep our eyes of the future of the paradise when our material needs will be
satisfied.
Ask ourselves are we thinking primarily about 2nd place things (material things)
or are we keeping them in their proper place.
Song no. 70. and Announcements
3:10 Drama: "Do Not Give the Devil an Opportunity" (Ephesians 4:27)
(1John 4:11)
LIVE ACTION DRAMA
Devil tries to cause divisions to undermine our Christian unity.
Misunderstandings in a business dealing between elders escalates and causes
division in congregation.
4:00 "Sacred Secrets of the Kingdom" Progressively Revealed
(Matthew 13:10,11)
Comprehension of di ff erent truths have gone from cold to hot over a period of
time.
Sacred secret is held by Jehovah until he wants to revel it.
Matthew 13:10-11 (God progressively reveals to those whom he wants)
What are some of things we had to be revealed?
Doctrinal changes such as the Ransom were a big issue by the bible students.
But that was not as important as Jehovah's sovereignty.
We realized the ransom was not the priority issue.
Exodus 9:15,16- Jehovah's priority is his name and so it should have been ours.
Our taking the name Jehovah's Witnesses. Isaiah 43:10. A true privilege to carry
the creators name.
The Kingdom understanding of Luke 17:21.
The Great Crowd Understanding in 1935. A faithful class to reside on earth.
Mustard grain: Matthew 13:31,32-the understanding was Christendom but was
later revealed was growth of the organization and the protection given by
Jehovah in the Christian congregation.
Leaven : the understanding was Christendom but it refers to spiritual growth that
is unseen at a time but expands. Preaching work cause growth like leaven
secretly expands so does increase. Example like growth in Cuba.
Interview with missionary to see how she has kept up with all the new changes in
the movement of the celestial chariot recently. We must keep up and hold on for
dear life.
We are living in the time of the and true knowledge will become abundant!
4:20 Teach Your Children to Love God's Kingdom! (Psalm 78:3.4)
Do we view our family as subjects of Gods kingdom?
Eph 3:15- This shows the importance Jehovah has given to the family
arrangement.
Do we view the kingdom as being in operation since 1914 or something of the
future? We must view ourselves as subjects in the present
Micah 6:8- new translation is di ff erent for the NWT. Uses the word loyalty.
Apply this when as a family or a group how loyal are we to Jehovah, Jesus, and
the Christian congregation.
Fulfilling Jehovah's will regards the family arrangement requires us to be happy.
Proverbs 24:3- By wisdom a house is build up. Not automatic requires wisdom.
How we cope with matters determines how successful our family life will be.
Psalm 90:8- orders from Jehovah cause our heart rejoice.
Do we really feel good about his principles.
His judgements are true and altogether as rightous.
Are we capable of putting our emotions aside and staying with Jehovah's
principles.
Psalm 90:10- do we feel Jehovah's judgements are overly demanding?
We live in a turbulent time to raise children. As a couple they should realize
children change and are erratic. Requires constant attention by parents. As
children grow up they grow away from parents. Do parents keep up with the
children. Many challenges like death and finances. But keep focused on the
kingdom.
NEW RELEASE:
A 32 page Brochure entitled "Your Family Can Be Happy"
Takes a practical approach to challenges.
Identifying bible principles to help deal with problems.
What parents can do for a given situation.
Duet 6:6,7- Words must be on the heart. Impress them upon our children.
What conversations do you have with your children in your house in the car when
we are with them before children go to bed.
Family heads must take into account these principles morn inning, noon and
night.
Psalms 78:4- when we come home do we watch tv...listen to music or other
matters than are part of the world we are hiding from our family's in regards to
spiritual matters.
Practical things to teach our children
1) Prayers with our children with them and for them.
2) Dont allow a generation gap. Encourage them to ask us questions.
3) Teach them to reason on bible principles.
4) Help them to set spiritual goals they set for themselves.
5) Help them discern bible principles
6) Assist them to become publishers
7) Help them to set goals for their own heartfelt dedication.
This requires adapting to each individual child. With their thinking
2nd NEW RELEASE:
"TEACH YOUR CHILDREN"
Family heads do you teach them or do you expect others in congregation to do
so. If not you are failing in a major responsibility in your life.
This brochure uses a question followed by a dash. Children should answer the
question.
FAMILY HEADS TAKE THE TIME TO. TEACH YOUR CHILDREN!
Song 88. Closing Prayer
 
Island Man
Island Man 2 years ago

Thanks for the scoop, OwnAccord.
 
confusedandalone
confusedandalone 2 years ago

Wow... This gives me more in to spoil for them
 
Oubliette
Oubliette 2 years ago


1950 disfellowshipping arrangement keeps congregation clean.
Can someone explain how this fits in the "Technology" section of the talk?
 
Shador
Shador 2 years ago

Wow. No books this year.
Apparently Family Happiness now requires only a little pamphlet insted of a whole book.
This shit gets lamer every year.
 
Listener
Listener 2 years ago

Very detailed.
I wonder what they mean by this change

NEW ADJUSTMENT IN THINKING
2 Cor 12:2-4- 3rd heaven represent an (3rd represents the kingdom in elevated
position)
Adjustment:
3rd heaven is messianic kingdom!
Paradise is physical,spiritual, and heavenly!
 
confusedandalone
confusedandalone 2 years ago

I hope to see sat and sun
 
Caminante
Caminante 2 years ago

Shador: This is only Friday's summary, Saturday and Sunday to follow :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
 
EndofMysteries
EndofMysteries 2 years ago

Nice notes on Babylon talk! I took the liberty of making a few adjustments as it's a clear case of the pot calling the kettle black!

1:40 How Babylon the Great Has "Shut Up The Kingdom"
(Matthew 23:2, 4-10, 13, 23, 24,34)
Hypocrite: Belive certain beliefs but lives are not in harmony with those beliefs.
Jesus used that word 6 di ff erent times in describing the governing body and elders. Matthew 23:2
The governing body of this time, very versed in the law there teaching became
so unscriptural they became a burden to the people.
Luke 11:52 - took away the key to knowledge to the common people. (Nobody can understand the bible except the Governing Body and nobody can get holy spirit and direction except them)
Pharisees no longer exist but the governing body does.
Rev 18:2, 23- by theie words and demonic influences false teaching is around
the world.
Matthew 23:2. Religious leaders of Jesus time compared to today.
Have Jehovah's name shown but nobody can approach him for direction and understanding only the governing body. Remove holy spirit from being accessible to the people.
Heavy loads on people. Nonstop man commandments like no recreation, no fun weddings, nonstop field service, contributions, studying manmade publications that are not refreshing. Many people fed up with

Rev 23:5-10- Jesus day they like prominent places. Today they wear titles. Have you use titles whenapproaching these people
individuals...elder, circuit overseer, governing body member, etc.
people do a lot of things in gods name. Matthew 23:23;24 false religion tolerates
a lot of things the bible condemns. Forbidding people to get holy spirit and direction through prayer alone, judging others, shunning those who leave the manmade teachings, forbidding to let holy spirit guide individuals, forcing to accept false beliefs to be unified, etc.
2 Tim 4:3: People want their ears tickled.
Matt 23:34- people who worship the true God are opposed and persecuted, usually by disfellowshipping and shunning when they stand up for what is right.
VIDEO PRESENTATION:
Brother who treated elders for phedophial and alcohol abuse. Became
disillusioned over the lies involving the Watchtower religion Spent 50 years searching
for the truth. Now he said he found it.
Rev 18:4-Get out of Watchtower. Are we not grateful to be out of the watchtower?
We must help others to do the same.
 
suavojr
suavojr 2 years ago

Thanks
 
villagegirl
villagegirl 2 years ago

The Photo Drama of Creation was a copy of the work of Miller.
The Wachtower did not invent movies my friend. The first commercial movies were
made in the 1890's , by 1914 there was a Movie Industry producing hundreds of movies,
Westerns staring Tom Mix, Charlie Chaplin Movies? : wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_films_of_1914
Do they address peodophiles by the hundreds in the Wachtower and mulitmillion dollar law suits
the Watchtower has LOST and now must pay millions for their policy not to turn peophiles into the police?
Really ? You are wowed by their simplistic dramas ? Really ? Do you live in an area with no TV ?
And is there any mention of the fact they said for 100 years that the people who were of an
"age of understanding", in 1914 would SEE Armageddon in their own lifetime ?
Did they talk about the policy to shun people ? Even your own children ?
Did they mention the fact they discourage young people from going to university ?
Or the new Tithing? Asking people to pledge money and commit to a monthly amount ?
Did you get the impression any technology was invented by the Watchtower, if so, thats a LIE.
The governing body is eight old men(one just died) living in New York in the USA, because
this is a USA invented CULT.
 
zebagain
zebagain 2 years ago

and after lunch will be a full apology of all the dates they got wrong.
Those who sold up for '75 can form a queue and get a cheque as compensation.
Copies of the wt 15-8-68 with the cover "Look forward to 1975" will be issued with 'sorry' emblazoned across it.
 
factfinder
factfinder 2 years ago

Thanks for the info!
Looking forward to seeing if a new book is released on Saturday.
 
Oubliette
Oubliette 2 years ago



Listener: I wonder what they mean by this change ...
It's their lame attempt at appearing "deep." That's what happens when you don't have a Crazy Freddy on staff: nonsense masquerading as "theology."
Let's review: It's a cult!

 
The Searcher
The Searcher 2 years ago

Thanks so much for your info, but paradoxically, it genuinely makes me feel SICK reading most of this effluent which is masquerading as "Bible truth".
It's nothing more than than re-hashed propaganda to stir the drones into believing they're being directed by God's SOLE representative on earth!
 
Bobcat
Bobcat 2 years ago

OwnAccord:
Thanks for the synopsis.
 
Calebs Airplane
Calebs Airplane 2 years ago

Dubs occasionally like to brag about how Jay-Hoover blessed his Borganization with so much holy spirit that they were able to produce the world's first first motion picture with both color and sound (The Photodrama of the Creation). What few Dubs realize is that "Cyrano de Bergerac" (1900) starring Benoit-Constant Coquelin was the first ever film produced with both color and sound.
 
WatchTower87
WatchTower87 2 years ago

OwnAccord, thanks a lot!! We love you !! :heart: :heart:

Now wait for saturday and sunady :smile:

WT87
 
Gorbatchov
Gorbatchov 2 years ago



 
label licker
label licker 2 years ago

Google Kingdom in the third heavens and you will understand who the society is now following. Yep, looks like they are trying to keep up with the Mormons according to wikipedia.
 

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"Keep Seeking First God's Kingdom!” Regional Convention 2014 - releases and info
by OwnAccord 2 years ago 50 Replies latest 2 years ago   watchtower bible
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Pistoff
Pistoff 2 years ago

Some of the ‘intellectual accomplishments’ of the WT during the 100 years of ‘kingdom rule’:


“"Vaccination never prevented anything and never will, and is the most barbarous practice...We are in the last days; and the devil is slowly losing his hold, making a strenuous effort meanwhile to do all the damage he can, and to his credit can such evils be placed. ... Use your rights as American citizens to forever abolish the devilish practice of vaccinations." Golden Age 1921 Oct 12 p.17
"Thinking people would rather have smallpox than vaccination, because the latter sows the seed of syphilis, cancers, escema, erysipelas, scrofula, consumption, even leprosy and many other loathsome affections. Hence the practice of vaccination is a crime, an outrage and a delusion." Golden Age 1929 May 1 p.502

"Avoid serum inoculations and vaccinations as they pollute the blood stream with their filthy pus." Golden Age 1929 Nov 13 pp.106-107

"Vaccination is a direct violation of the everlasting covenant that God made with Noah after the flood." Golden Age 1931 Feb 4 p.293

"Of all the inventions that have been foisted upon mankind for their defilement the most subtly devilish is that of vaccination." Ibid p.295

After that demolition of vaccination, the Watchtower has the balls to say this:


"The matter of vaccination is one for the individual that has to face it to decide for himself... And our Society cannot afford to be drawn into the affair legally or take the responsibility for the way the case turns out." Watchtower 1952 Dec 15 p.764

And make it look like they always had a moderate view of vaccines:

"Previous articles in this journal and its companion, The Watchtower, have presented a consistent position: It would be up to the Bible-trained conscience of the individual Christian as to whether he would accept [vaccinations] for himself and his family." Awake! 1993 Aug 8 p.25
 
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 2 years ago

Don't be like the donkey who has a carrot dangled in front of face. Never does get the carrot.
Hard to believe this will actually be said and yet 7.9million won't see the irony of it.
Doc
 
WTWizard
WTWizard 2 years ago

This is nothing more than a three day damnation working. Most of the premises they present are virtually identical to communism. Putting the communist government ahead of everything else--ultimately, this could be used to ensure poverty, stagnation, and even people not seeking medical treatment. Or, even not getting enough sleep or taking care of basic needs. And for what? That stupid communist government!
 
Pistoff
Pistoff 2 years ago

So VillageGirl, chill out; the poster is just relaying what was said at the convention, those aren't his views.
 
leaving_quietly
leaving_quietly 2 years ago

The adjustment to the "third heaven" is welcome as their previous explanations were dodgy, at best. However, it's still not right, I think. But, what is interesting is that they finally call this paradise "heavenly". The word "paradise" is found in the Bible four times. Once in Solomon's love song, and three other times, each of which imply paradise as heaven.

Jesus' promise to the criminal next to him in Luke 23:43.
This third heaven in 2 Cor 12:1-5.
The paradise of God in Revelation 2:7.
None of these links the word "paradise" to earth. I wrote a personal article for my personal research about this just yesterday.
 
clarity
clarity 2 years ago


Thanks for this ... too bad it is even more revolting
than the previous junk.
Does anyone have a list of Canadian assembly dates?
For some reason my search engine is not picking it up!
Please & thank you........

clarity
 
St George of England
St George of England 2 years ago

@OwnAccord  - Can you say which country you are attending convention?
I was under the impression that the first convention was the week of JUNE 6.
George
 
Designer Stubble
Designer Stubble 2 years ago

Thanks for posting this. I took the liberty to copy it on jehovahswitnessrecovery.com
 
St George of England
St George of England 2 years ago

@clarity - The dates and locations across Canada are all jw.org, they start on JUNE 6.
I just cannot understand where this convention information is coming from, according to jw.org the first conventions start on JUNE 6.
Surely we are not being taken for a ride are we.................................?
George
 
Island Man
Island Man 2 years ago

Actually the convention started yesterday in the Dominican Republic
http://www.jw.org/apps/E_FRNsPnPBrt?selLocation=DOM&selLanguageID=1&txtBeginDate=yyyy-mm-dd&txtEndDate=yyyy-mm-dd&txtSearch=&txtAction=SEARCH&selSortBy=1
 
St George of England
St George of England 2 years ago

Thanks for that Island Man
George
 
HeyThere
HeyThere 2 years ago

marked
 
quellycatface
quellycatface 2 years ago

Thank you for your time and effort gathering that information.
Sounds a really fun day.
 
frankiespeakin
frankiespeakin 2 years ago

Wait a minute I thought the kingdom was established 1914 and has been in operation for a hundred years now and all we got to show for it in the way of tangable evidence is some organization changes that brought in profits to the corporation and also bad things happening all over the world, wow scary really when you think about it. And lets not for get all this excitment in heaven over the Kingdom's birth, this is some ellusive kingdom that is the rave and you just can't shut the angles up just like when Jesus was born.

"Keep Seeking First God's Kingdom!”

Yeah right, why seek it when its been around so long and has accomplished so much good.
 
HowTheBibleWasCreated
HowTheBibleWasCreated 2 years ago

F**k are thses morons idiots?
2 Corinthians 12 1-5 follows chapter 11 where 'Paul' is taking the role of a 'madman'. READ THE WHOLE THING! He is bragging. The 'man in paradise' is himself and this had a literatry relation to 1 Corinthians 15... his own revelation of Christ.
The paradise concept is from the Book of Enoch.
The WT has fools making this up.
 
average joe
average joe 2 years ago

thank you
 
leaving_quietly
leaving_quietly 2 years ago

There must have been so many "WTF" moments yesterday.
The religious leaders of that time, very versed in the law there teaching became so unscriptural they became a burden to the people. (WTF??? How about teaching that men cannot wear beards? Or that we MUST go to ALL the meetings and only if we're SO SICK that we cannot attend is it acceptable to miss? Or that one CANNOT ask questions without being viewed as SPIRITUALLY WEAK, and possibly / probably SHUNNED? What about teaching that EVERY SINGLE HOLIDAY is a SIN, even when there is NO PROOF of such in modern times (think Mother's Day and Father's Day)? What about burdening children with being ostracized because of not being able to celebrate birthdays because the organization bans it for NO GOOD REASON?)
Matthew 23:2. Religious leaders of Jesus time compared to today. Hide Jehovah's name from the people. Take gods name out of many translations of the bible. (WTF??? Let's list all the translations that actually DO have God's name. What's with the fascination with this topic? Hey Watchtower, how about you use God's REAL name, not some name made up by a Catholic monk?)
Heavy loads on people. hellfire teaching. Not refreshing. Many people fed up with BTG. (WTF? Hellfire is a heavy load? How about 7.9 billion people dying at armageddon just because they don't believe JWs? How about heavy loads of constant meetings, field service, assemblies, conventions, and special events? Talk about HEAVY LOADS!!!!!)
Palms 115:17-dead don't praise Jehovah. Dead people most unhealthy people on earth. (WTF??? Who comes up with this stuff?)
Reading this is just making me angry. Ugh.
 
HeyThere
HeyThere 2 years ago

marked
 
NAVYTOWN
NAVYTOWN 2 years ago

Can you even begin to imagine spending an entire weekend listening to that mind-numbing drivel???
 
Comatose
Comatose 2 years ago

no I can't Navy... I could never sit through that again. Makes me sick a little... Straight from Jehovah's table. Until they change it next.
 

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Topic Summary
info from someone at the regional convention:.
(sorry about the format).
matthew 6:33 keep on seeking first the kingdom.



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Divergent
Does growing up in a religious family make you MEAN?
by Divergent 4 months ago
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Please, help me to show the USA that a public inquiry into child abuse...
by defender of truth 6 months ago
Diogenesister
Bill Bowens letter / circumstantial evidence hypocracy
by Diogenesister 3 months ago
JT
Why My Wife and I Have No Kids
by JT 14 years ago
fulltimestudent
Boys kidnapped for sexual purposes in Elizabethan England
by fulltimestudent 7 months ago



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"Keep Seeking First God's Kingdom!” Regional Convention 2014 - releases and info
by OwnAccord 2 years ago 50 Replies latest 2 years ago   watchtower bible
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cultBgone
cultBgone 2 years ago

Great info, thanks!
 
SuperBoy
SuperBoy 2 years ago

I wonder if new light will ever be the REAL way you say JHWH!
 
Bobcat
Bobcat 2 years ago

For reference:
2014 DC notes - Friday, Saturday, Sunday
 
baldeagle
baldeagle 2 years ago

Thanks, much appreciated. Nothing new again.
 
Londo111
Londo111 2 years ago

Thanks for the notes!
 
rosesinbloom
rosesinbloom 2 years ago

Thank you Ownaccord for the notes, I am looking forward to the symposium on Saturday morning. I am finding the notes encouraging.
 
Open mind
Open mind 2 years ago

Thanks ownaccord!!!

marking
 
tornapart
tornapart 2 years ago

Marked
 
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 2 years ago

900,000 visits everyday on jw.org.
Not even one daily visit by each JW in the USA, let alone worldwide?
Many are failing to take advantage of the spiritual food being made available by the F&DS.
Doc
 
Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Billy the Ex-Bethelite 2 years ago

I finally got up the courage to read all three threads. Ugh, it's so painful to be reminded that I wasted so many years believing such manipulative mind control.
 
nonjwspouse
nonjwspouse 2 years ago

marked
 

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Topic Summary
info from someone at the regional convention:.
(sorry about the format).
matthew 6:33 keep on seeking first the kingdom.



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Divergent
Does growing up in a religious family make you MEAN?
by Divergent 4 months ago
defender of truth
Please, help me to show the USA that a public inquiry into child abuse...
by defender of truth 6 months ago
Diogenesister
Bill Bowens letter / circumstantial evidence hypocracy
by Diogenesister 3 months ago
JT
Why My Wife and I Have No Kids
by JT 14 years ago
fulltimestudent
Boys kidnapped for sexual purposes in Elizabethan England
by fulltimestudent 7 months ago



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Keep Seeking First God's Kingdom - RC 2014 - Saturday
by OwnAccord 2 years ago 43 Replies latest 2 years ago   watchtower bible
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OwnAccord
OwnAccord 2 years ago

Releases:
1. 240 page book "Gods Kingdom Rules" ... historical facts of theocratic history
2. New recording for song 92


Saturday Morning
9:20 Music
9:30 Song No. 120 and Prayer
9:40 Symposium: Who Will Not Inherit God's Kingdom?
(1Corinthians 6:9-11)
" Sexually Immoral" People
Our primary activity is to preach. New ones have to overcome and reject
practices despised by god.
1Cor 6:9;10- Things that can disqualify us to inherit gods kingdom.
Hope for those that desire to change.
What is involved in sexual immorality? Fornication, adultery, and
homosexuality.
Today we have to pray for self control to keep these impulses in check.
Example: those who who can't eat chocolate someone leaves a bag on the
table we begin to look at it and dwell then taste a piece then indulge.
Same with pornography we can't even peek at it. Like a fire with gasoline
escalates quickly . Pornography leads to sexual immorality. Don't hesitate to
get help if we have this problem. Viewing movies that have sexual scenes
must be avoided. Develop an inhoarance for pornography.
Individuals can change. Example of a man from Brazil who had to battle
homosexual tendency. Realized after studying he had to change his
enviorment and move away from his associates to break free. Now is in the
full time service.
Some feel guilty about their former lifestyle.
Demonstration of sister and her study who has guilty conscience about her
past life and feels Jehovah hasn't forgave her.
1Cor 6- That's what some of your were. 1st century Christians who over
came a debased life. They were washed cleaned.
So study realized she to had become washed clean of her previous way of
life.
What is the point! Sexually immoral people must change but Jehovah will
help them.
"Idolaters"
Idolatry is any worship not given to Jehovah.
Entertainers and sports heroes fall into this category.
Seeking prominence in the secular field for ourselves.
1 Cor 6:9- Idolaters.
How can we stay far away from idolatry?
Fix our attention on this fact : Only Jehovah deserves this devotion.
interview with a Missionary: Formally a drug user and arrested. When seeing
the consequences of the lifestyle he saw the need for change.
Moved to Southern California and started a bible study. The key to breaking
free from drugs was love for Jehovah, change of association.
We must abandon all forms of idolatry. Any who are ensnared can with
Jehovah's help break free.
"Greedy People"
If we become rich tomorrow what would you do? Many people devote the
rest of their life to making more money to become richer. Greed is the result.
But is not limited to money. But the desire to have more money, power and
sex.
1Cor 6:10- Greedy people.
How serious is this snare? All greed has no place under kingdom
arrangement.
We must have self control and constant self scrutiny continent to exams our
heart.
1) Think how insessable this quality is .
2) Meditate those in the bible who were greedy
3) Cultivate love and contentment
Demonstration : Bible student who is battling drunkeness. Feels hopeless.
Brother uses article on individual who was a binge drinker. Helped student
to realize how much more of an e ff ort not to give up and realize for some
people change is gradual. Looked up more articles to get practical
suggestions that will help him conquer his weakness.
Jehovah is source of all wealth! Are we confident in him to provide if so we
can avoid the snare of greed.
"Revilers"
Everlasting life can be taken from us by what we choose to speak about.
Abusive and insulting speech can make the rest of of service to god futile.
Things to avoid
1) Meditate on the good of others
2) Try not to use negative speech
3) Negative gossip
Eccl 10:12-14- lips of the stupid ones are his ruin. And is a fool.
We might just start with negative talk then we go down the path to slander.
Before we speak think about what we are about to say. There might be a
grain of truth in our negative talk about someone but only has a grain of
truth look at the whole picture.
Verse 14- Don't keep speaking negative just stop!
demonstration ; 2 family's that are talking about meeting starts o ff well but
turns into an elder bashing and slander. Turned into a reviling.
Demonstration then shows how the negative talk was di ff used in the same
situation.
If we are a negative person and complainer we need to change. Article
mentioned about individual who was a verbal abuser and how the truth
transformed his life.
Battle whatever we struggle against and with Jehovah's help we will
conquer it!
10:20 Symposium: Who Will Inherit God's Kingdom?
Those "Who Are Poor"  (Luke 6:20; Matthew5:3)
We all have the privilege of inheriting the kingdom.
How can we be a part. Meet the requirements.
Luke 6:20- Happy are you who are poor.
Mathew 5:3- those who are poor are those who have a spiritual need and are
conscience of it.
Conscience has 3 varying degrees
Begger is what we want to be.
How can we satisfy our spiritual condition
1) Meetings and participation
2) Study
3) Service
THEATRICLE VIDEO :
Blind begger who called out to Jesus. And Jesus healed him.
Mark 10:48, 50- Begger pleaded to fulfill his need.
As beggars are we dependant on Jehovah and never take spiritual provisions for
granted. We need to put forth a continuous e ff ort and guard against over
confidence. Don't rely on our past service to Jehovah. We can never do enought.
3 things not to neglect
Never needlessly miss meetings
Be as active as we can
Stick to schedule of family worship and personal study
Those Who, "Become as Young Children"  (Matthew 18:2-4)
1 Cor 14:20- Do not become young children as to understanding.
Traits not to have
Tossed about and easily misled.
Sililoquoy: Brother watching video on computer then page jumps to something
he shouldn't watch. Turns it o ff immediately. Be babes as to badness.
Good traits one who is easily taught by Jehovah.
Mathew 18:2-4- had to be humble like child.
World promotes to be number 1 but not in the congregation.
We must realize we completely depend on Jehovah's guidance and protection
like child with parents.
We must be exhuberant like the children on Jesus last days when the children
had no fear to praise him.
Interview with sister who was timid at the doors in service in an unproductive
territory so she lacked Enthusiam. She prepared more for service and set spiritual
goals for the ministry. She started pioneering and her fears went away and she
became a special pioneer. Something she never thought she could do.
Our inheritance is waiting on us if we are like young children.
Those "Persecuted for Righteousness' Sake"  (Matthew 5:10)
Mathew 5:10- happy who are persecuted.
Jesus was talking about those punished for serving Jehovah.
Worlds view if something to di ffi cult don't do it.
Jesus warned that true Christians would be persecuted. Early Christians
imprisoned and killed. Same with us today.
Are we keeping up on jw.org with our brothers around the world and the
persecution that persists.
When brothers are released they become stronger.
Others are persecuted by family and peers. Satan knows what to use against us.
Interviews :
Peer pressure on brother about not being immoral in front of a group at work.
Physical persecution: Brother who was drafted into Vietnam War and put in
prison. Inmates started doing harm. He endured preaching to inmates on
occasion and going to meetings at prison. Prayer essential.
1 peter 4:14- whatever persecution we face with Jehovah's Holy Spirit we can
conquer it.
Those Who Help Christ's Brothers  (Matthew 25:34)
Mathew 25:31-33- setting is during great tribulation. Verse 34 inheirit the
kingdom. Verse 40- the sheep here fed and assisted Christ's brothers.
Jesus rewards them.
We also as other sheep must do what for Christ's brothers?
Shepard the congregation.
Translation work of bible literature.
Construction work of Kingdom Halls.
Preaching the good news
Jesus appreciates the help we are doing for Christ brothers.
INTERVIEWS : with those helping Christ's brothers.
Sister who is helping in translations in Ukrane.
Husband and wife who left California and help start congregation in Punjabi.
Who will inherit gods kingdom
beggars
Like young children
Resist Satan's subtle and violent persecutions
Those who help Christ's brothers.
11:00 Song No. 92 and Announcements
11:10 Symposium: The Kingdom "Good News Has to be Preached First"!
From House to House  (Mark 13:10)
Mark 13:10- the word first here implies shows kingdom news has to be preached
before great tribulation and gods kingdom takes over rule of the world.
1 Cor 9:16- woe if we don't share good news.
Good news doesn't always come out good.
Demonstration on how not to proclaim the good news. Brother mentions to
optimistic householder every bad thing happening in the world but never
mentioned the good news. Householder gets discouraged from information.
Demonstration of a more realistic approach to householder who already has an
optimistic view of world conditions.
Learn how to use new tract "What is the kingdom of God"
Demonstration using page 2 of how to use the tract.
Mormons not to use door to door work anymore only social media.
Door to door in a life saving work the best way.
We are Evangelizers must continue to call back on those whom are not
interested. Situations change.
Psalm 96:2- Proclaim the good news day after day.
2 things to remember
1)Good news has to be preached first in our life and before the great tribulation.
2)We are Evangelizers
Informally  (Psalm 45:1)
We should always be ready to give spiritual assistance when needed.
Psalm 45:1- we should be stirred to preach.
Stir is an excited emotion.
Luke 6:45- whatever is in our heart our mouth speaks. Should do this on every
occasion.
DEMONSTRATION ; Sister on public transportation does not take advantage of
preaching to other passenger.
Sister on same scenario takes advantage of situation to informal witness.
We have to find out what technique is best for us as individuals to informal
witness. Use an approach unique to our personality.
DEMONSTRATION:
2 workers on co ff ee break. Brother takes advantage to informal preach using new
brochure "What is the kingdom of God".
Publicly  (Proverbs 1:20,21)
Proverbs 1:20-21; raise your voice in the public squares.
Public witnessing is being organized at airports and subways places there are
many people.
Jan 2014 100,000 stands have been organized worldwide.
Metropolitan witnessing is being done in all major cities.
Elders have specific instructions now to be modified on cart/public witnessing.
DEMONSTRATION: On the wrong way to do cart / table witnessing. Not showing
an interest in people passing by.
The right way to do it. With iPad video played for interested man from jw.org
website.
Before the end comes and it's right there now we must make the preaching work
a priority in our lives always sharing something positive whether informal, house
to house, or public witnessing.
11:45 Baptisim: Jehovah "Will Help You" Inherit the Kingdom (Isaiah 41:10)
INTERVIEWS: Missionary gave her life experience on how she made life
changing moves and obstacles she had to overcome in order to qualify for a
dedication to jehovah. And how Jehovah still assists her even now to stay close
to him and she continues to put her trust in him to sustain her.
Gilead graduates also tell how Jehovah help them to originally
qualify for Baptism. And the challenges they faced after Baptism. They also
explained how Jehovah has continued their training.
Song No. 60 and Intermission. 8297276082
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Saturday Afternoon
1:35 Music
1:45 Song No. 95
1:50 Symposium: Pursue Goals That Can Help You Seek First the Kingdom
Move Where the Need Is Greater  (Acts 16:9,10)
People of the world have goals of making it big. Do we let gods kingdom shape
our goals.
Phil 3:8,14-do our goals reflect that theocratic goals are first in our lives.
Simplifying our life. Watching videos for need Greaters , self examination How
we'll we would adjust for a economic depressed areas. Also seldom worked
territory's in our own land is an option.
INTERVIEW: Missionary's from Dominican Republic tells how how Need Greaters
have greatly helped. Major adjustments are need for them and realize that the
challenges of the cultures are sometimes di ffi cult but the preaching work is a real
blessing. The sacrifices of the Need Greaters has a positive e ff ect for local
brothers and those back in home congregations.
Where will our goals led us?
Acts 16:9,10- Step over into Macedonia. Those who move reap rich blessings
from Jehovah.
Learn a New Language  (1Corinthians 9:22,23)
1Cor 9:22,23- became all things to people of all sorts. Paul realized only a few
available ways possible to do that. Learning a new language is one.
4 things to do to learn a new language
Learn a simple presentation
Learn 10-20 new words or phrases each weak
Read out loud in target language
Practice everyday
2 things not not do when learning a new language
Don't worry about making mistakes.
Don't think learning a new language is easy.
INTERVIEW with sister who tried to learn new language
Tried Russian but Couldn't learn. Changed to sign language
Don't give up continue to pray and practice.
Reach Out to Be a Ministerial Servant  (1Timothy 3:12.13)
Reaching out requires desire. When we reach out to qualify it's something that
pleases Jehovah. What if we don't have that desire?
Phil 2:13- God gives us the desire and power to act.
What do we need to do? Humble persistent prayer to Jehovah.
He is there to energize us to act.
1 Tim 3:12,13- Scriptural qualifications. And a fine standing with Jehovah.
He wants us to reach out.
Col 3:23- Wants us to be whole souled and work hard.
We need great desire to make changes.
Working on the fruitages of the spirit in our lives.
Complete our assignments with zeal in local congregation.
Married sisters can help Husbands to reach out.
INTERVIEW : Brother 36 who took a whole to become a servant.
Talked about an elder who assisted him in reaching out. Helped him to reach a
spiritual maturity. Blessings he has enjoyed is helping to encourage other
brothers and sisters.
Acts 20:35- when we reach out we are giving of ourselves.
Malachi 3:10- Jehovah will reward us if we reach out.
Reach Out to Be an Elder  (1Timothy 3:1,2; Titus 1:9, 2:1)
2104 newly formed congregations. Need 6312 new elders need to fill those
positions.
1Tim 3:1- Desireous of a fine work.
Elder is signified by way he teaches and serves others. Art of teaching must be
cultivated.
Elder must be an encouraging person.
How should an elder respond to those who have lost jobs, lost loved ones .
Do we read the bible on a daily basis to assist such ones.
1Tim 3:2- other qualifications.
Sound in mind. Rational in speech and in actions.
This require diligent bible reading and research.
Elders must be orderly and well arranged in dress and grooming also in the way
our homes look.
INTERVIEW: Brother and his wife. He originally had no desire to be an elder. Was
overwhelmed with the feelings of not being qualified. Was helped to appreciate
don't need to be perfect. B
Enroll as a Pioneer  (Psalm 34:8; Mark 12:30)
Mark 12:30- reflect on what Jehovah has done is doing and in the future will do
for us.
As we have a share in the ministry and continue to push ourselves Psalms 34:8
says taste to see if Jehovah is good. We have to continue to push ourselves even
when the situation is hard.
30 hours for auxiliary is a loving provision. Take advance of it.
Even if regular pioneer don't just stop at your hour quotas. Continue to put in
more hours.
Get an application and put it somewhere we see it. So it will remind us what we
need to do according to circumstances.
2 Tim 2:15- set the goal of pioneering.
INTERVIEW: Sister who started pioneering at 14. Was encouraged by a talk at
circuit assembly by circuit overseer. She felt pioneering protected her put her I
good company also saw people change their lives. Blessing of attending pioneer
school was encouraged by examples of other long time servants. Putting
kingdom first gave her a great life.
Pioneer is a goal we can all set before us if our circumstances allow and Jehovah
will assist us.
Attend the School for Kingdom Evangelizers  (Isaiah 6:8; 54:23)
Theocratic schools have no tuition and are practical for helping others. These
schools are for persons seeking kingdom interests.
INTERVIEWS: those who have attended the school. single brother
Sacrifices were well worth it. Must have the circumstances and desire.
Married couples: Made Preperation to achieve goals. Kept life simple.
When viewing assignment concerns about daily routine would be changed. Living
with others and where would they're assigned.
Couple with Gilead goal. Said their life was a passport to a world of
opportunities.
Had to focus on assignment before applying. had problems with arguing in
marriage had to work on that before putting in application.
Focusing on spiritual goals help not to pursue worldly pursuits.
Isaiah 54:13-Jehovah is helping us with all these di ff erent schools.
Isaiah 6:8- gives us this attitude that is precious to Jehovah.
These schools allow Jehovah to instruct us and continue to walk with him.
Song No. 85 and Announcements
3:00 Enter the Kingdom Maimed, Lame, or One-Eyed (Mark 9:43-47)
Mark 8:34-37; requirement to get into the kingdom.
To disown himself utterly means an absolute death to self. If we accept
challenges to Christian life our entire life's belong to Jehovah.
Mark 9:43-47; what we need to remove to inherit the kingdom.
What are we willing to sacrifice in order to keep living?
What are our weaknesses. What do we need to cut OFF!
Can't have a worldly attitude walking around with a chip on our shoulder in the
congregation.
Cut it out phrase means to stop it now.
If we can't control things In our lives and it is hindering us from seeking first the
kingdom. No matter what it is. CUT IT OUT!
HANDS :
If your not in a position to marriage. (If you are still getting an allowance from
parents) you are not ready to marry. Don't put yourself in a position. Young
people stay out of groups that always are together.
If your not financially ready....means if you don't have a job your are not in a
position to marry.
Make wise choices to music video games .
FOOT: stay away from nightclubs, bars etc. Karaooke night.
EYE: world looks glamorous. Like Music, technology, Facebook, Twitter etc.
make an honest appraisal of our attitude.
INTERVIEW: With young brother who was into rap music. Had to cut it out.
Association with those who like bad music then had to cut out all music as it was
a temptation.
With older brother who was into watching boxing. Had to realize
Jehovah hates violence. The sacrifice to cut it o ff was a blessing as he is able to
serve as a need greater.
What ever we have to cut o ff as a self amputation is worth gaining life. The true
life we will have in paradise make the sacrifice.
Matthew 25:34- inherit the kingdom.
3:20 As Kingdom Subjects, Remain "No Part of this World"! (John 18:36)
This cause for guarding our neutrality.
Jesus kingdom and followers are no part of the world.
Satan's political system thrives on debate and conflict. That di ff erent political
parties are di ff erent from another, but all are part of Satan's system.
We must guard our hearts from ALL political issues.
Sadly some brothers have been drawn into political issues.
Mark 12:17- helps us to recognize we have to render dues when it belongs to
ceaser but not to god. Governments provide water, roads, and protection.
But God gives life so our life belongs to Jehovah through honor and praise.
Ceaser also wants what belongs to god.
5 Areas that belong to Ceaser and he wants us to compromise.
Matthew 4:8-10; World rulership
John 6:15; Human kingship.
Matthew 22:15-22; Political issues
Matthew 5:43- Military service. Neutrality.
Matthew 6:3,4;Social issues (Jesus encouraged giving gifts of mercy but
preached only kingdom had the solution.
Proverbs 4:24- Safeguard our hearts on political issues
How do I feel if:
How do I respond in my heart if if I benefit from some government program
What if I were to receive benefits and gifts from a politician
Do I have nationalistic feeling for my country
Do i get agitated emotionally if someone speaks bad about my country
Sililoquoy: Brother gets upset over newspaper article about social issue. Did not
safeguard his heart.
Another brother realizes only the kingdom will correct this issue heart
safeguarded.
Daniel 3: issue confronted head on with the 3 Hebrews.
What if we are confronted as the 3 Hebrews
We must stand firm
Prayerfully seek Jehovah's help
Remain staunch to Jehovah
3:45 Sound Drama: "Jehovah is the Only True God" (1Kings 16:29-33; 17:1-7;
18:17-46; 19:1-8)
Elijah and the events strengthen our confidence in Jehovah today.
BROTHER LETT GOVERNING BODY on the big screen gives the audio drama.
Drama answers these questions:
1)What can interfere with our giving exclusive devotion to Jehovah.
2)Why is it foolish to give worship to anyone other than Jehovah.
3)How does Jehovah make himself known to us as individuals.
4:15 Jehovah's Organization--100 Years of Seeking First God's Established
Kingdom (Psalm 48:12,13; Luke 10:1, 5-11)
Jesus was a teacher 24 hours a day. It was close to his heart.
Matthew 12:34- spoke more about the kingdom than any other subject.
During the past 100 years of the kingdom has been real to Jehovah's
witnesses. Just how real has it been? What things have happened and
are yet to happen?
Early in the 20th century Jesus provided the tools necessary to preach
about the kingdom.
Matthew 13:19- soil sown on the road hard to grow. Also the rocky
ground this has to be dwelt with di ff erently also the thorns would have to
be dwelt with. Then there is fine soil.
Like a modern day garden would have di ff erent tools at di ff erent times so
was modern day early witnessing.
1920's- 1st electrically recorded disk. It was called a setup. This required
very little talking. 1336 -45 phonograph lacked ability to teach the hearts
of the people.
Testimony card was used. Also did not require a witness to talk. Very few
felt unqualified to give a witness. This was training.
1896 became watchtower bible and tract society.
1942- began printing the King James Version 700,000 copies
1944- American standard version
1950- Green bible Greek scriptures
Later the Hebrew Scriptures one volume at a time.
Used the watchtower translation system.
Used classical language hard to understand.
2013 128 languages NWT.
1914 Russell's sermons was read in 114 newspapers.
They started using picture presentations. Photo drama of creation.
8 hour program in 1914 in 80 cities a day.
Then there was a simplified version called a eureka set used later.
1920's radio stream was used for sermon broadcast. Wbbr later
purchased by branch o ffi ce was used extensively. One great moment in
radio July 1935 the name was broadcast by 400 radio stations.
Radio was replaced by door to door ministry.
2014. 2.7 billion people connected to the internet.
Jw.org 250 languages.
August campaign on jw.org
None of these methods designed to replace the door to door ministry.
Jesus trained his disciples. Luke chapter 10.
Jesus was a born teacher because he was taught by his father John 8:28.
Today we have progressive training to preach and in the congregation.
8500 have graduated from Gilead since it's inception.
NEW RELEASE "GODS KINGDOM RULES"
240 page book of historical facts of theocratic history.
What gods kingdom has accomplished over last 100 years!
4:55 Song No. 103 and Closing Prayer
 
OwnAccord
OwnAccord 2 years ago

friday release
Book:
New BOok
 
LoisLane looking for Superman
LoisLane looking for Superman 2 years ago


Thank you for all of this. ^^^^^ It is giving me a bit of a headache.
If I was in Hitler's Germany, I would be commanded to listen to this.
But I live in Freedom. I don't have to any more.
I honestly thought they were going to quit talking about Gays. When WT/GB/Writing Dept/Legal Dept. does talk about homosexuals, it just shows how narrow minded and backward they are.
---->> "Those Who Are Poor"... It says we should be like beggars. BINGO Headquarter's are acting exactly that way. They keep begging for more of the sheeples MONEY.
LL (not Bean)
 
millie210
millie210 2 years ago

Seems to really soft pedal the whole 100 years of Kingdom rule to me....

absolutely nothing new.
 
Julia Orwell
Julia Orwell 2 years ago

I bet that new version of the old proclaimers book won't have any milestones such as 1925, 1975, the building of Beth sarim, joining the UN or anything like that. As for the rest of the information, while I couldn't stomach to read too much, it just seemed like the same stuff that they've been preaching forever about don't do this or that, complete with logical errors.
 
Julia Orwell
Julia Orwell 2 years ago

Oh and also that we are stupid, dependent children who can't do or think a single thing for ourselves so a we need Jehovah that is, the org. to lead us. Attacking our confidence in ourselves that we can ever do anything.
 
LostGeneration
LostGeneration 2 years ago

Will be interesting to see this book...more revisionist history to dissect.
 
Island Man
Island Man 2 years ago


We can never do enought
I found this note very troubling. Did they actually say that?
Also, I found this statement equating idolatry with seeking prominence, a glaring example of Watchtower conveniently creating its own definitions to serve its own ends:

Seeking prominence in the secular field for ourselves.
Did you notice the "secular" qualifier? So that means if you're seeking prominence in the organization - reaching out to be a pioneer, elder, ms, etc - then you're automatically exempt from being guilty of idolatry? So if a JW's seeking of prominence benefits the organization then such prominence seeking must be excluded from being considered idolatrous? What a self-serving hyprocrite the organization is proving to be!
 
berrygerry
berrygerry 2 years ago

Thanks own accord
 
zebagain
zebagain 2 years ago

...........and now stricken with a lightening bolt of humility they will do a full section on all the predictions (list the dates) they got wrong and make a big screen showing of the wt15th Aug 68 and its cover predictions for the coming "1975."
and apologise too that the wts having panned the internet as satans tool was wrong now that they have began to use it.
 
clarity
clarity 2 years ago


"Jehovah hates violence!" Huh? Really?
I guess smashing baby's heads in & slaughtering
thousands of people at one killing spree is not
violent! haha


 
Mikado
Mikado 2 years ago

I can just see how well the sister preaching in her work break would go down.... not..
 
factfinder
factfinder 2 years ago

Thank you very much OwnAccord!
Thanks to you I have all this information about the talks and releases long before my jw brother goes to the convention!
It will be very interesting getting that book-I will have to ask my brother to get me a copy when he goes.

Was the book printed in Wallkill?
Is the book pocket size or magazine size?
Thanks again!
 
WTWizard
WTWizard 2 years ago

Another load of rubbish. Those sacrifices are going to lead to damnation if made. They put people "not in a position to marry" if they don't have jobs--what if I were to invest in real estate or precious metals, and the value goes to the moon? Or, what if I learn a barter skill and the dollar becomes toilet paper, and my barter skill provldes plenty of wealth without "a job"? Cutting off anything that is fun--sounds like damnation to me. Entering that communist kingdom impaired is not worth it. Would you rather enter a communist state maimed, or a free state whole?
So it's smart to worship that beady-eyed monster. Why, because that thing will throw a temper tantrum and slaughter everyone that it cannot enslave?
 
Julia Orwell
Julia Orwell 2 years ago

You've pierced to the heart of the matter, Wizard. Keeping the people poor and ignorant also keeps them hooked on a future paradise. If their lives are good now, they won't need paradise.
 
XkhanX
XkhanX 2 years ago

Thank you for posting. It's basically the same talks we listened to for past 20 yrs. my wife can even guess the pointers in the talk in advance. Nothing new But the point about Beggars is. My last No.4 talk before I execute our full fade is about the benefits of higher education. There are many highly educated and as a result, rich n prosperous bible characters. I highlighted Luke, Paul, King Solomn, Abraham, Job, Joseph....you will see that the Bible is a balanced book and there is absolutly nothing wrong with higher education and being rich. best advice from the Bible- Give me neither poverty nor riches.
 
Sparlock the Wizard
Sparlock the Wizard 2 years ago

Thanks for the post, can't wait /s
 
Designer Stubble
Designer Stubble 2 years ago

"We need to put forth a continuous effort... We can never do enough."

Yep, the treadmill called WTBTS - bringing on the fear and guilt since 1879.
 
steve2
steve2 2 years ago

Nice to know the menu has all the old favorites on it. Love the way they normalize the 100th year as if it's no big deal and as if they never said anything about the end coming well before now. clever -especially for an audience who wouldn't know a critical thought if it jumped up and slapped them in the face.
 
smiddy
smiddy 2 years ago

What gods kingdom has accomplished over last 100 years!
I cant wait for that report .
Hang on maybe I/you/we/ can help
How many readjustments have been made to new light since 1914 ? in these past 100 years ?
Every new light has supposedly come from Jesus Christ the enthroned King since 1914 via the Holy spirit , so why has their been so many ,many corrections , adjustments , new light , etc.etc. taken place during these past 100 years .
Is jesus an incompentent ? according to the Watchtower ?
does Jesus make mistakes with his directions ? That he needs to change what he has given as new light previously to now something different ? and call it new light ?
If jesus Christ was a CEO of any organisation today he would be sacked as an incompetent , why ? because nothing he ever did ,said ,these past 100 years has stood the test of time .
smiddy
 

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Keep Seeking First God's Kingdom - RC 2014 - Saturday
by OwnAccord 2 years ago 43 Replies latest 2 years ago   watchtower bible
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Witness My Fury
Witness My Fury 2 years ago

What a waste of time that is, it's the same old same old, and where's the goods on exactly what the Kngdumb has been up to for the last 100 years? Looks like the next 900 years of it will also pass unnoticed too.
 
Prefect
Prefect 2 years ago

Thanks OwnAccord for the summery of the assembly.
Was there a reason given for the new recording od song 92?

Prefect
 
Laika
Laika 2 years ago

I know a few JWs that will be upset that karaoke night is now banned.
 
blondie
blondie 2 years ago

It might be harder to hide the Proclaimers book in this day of technology...but jws are trained to toss or store away old information...can history get old?
There will probably never be anything in the WT publications about the WTS "joining" the UN. Only sovereign entities can do that not corporations. But they willl also never reveal that the WTS was associated as nongovernmental organization (NGO) that has to support the UN charter which has a part on military actions.
I'm sure they do know they have to hide certain information better by separating the pieces and scattering them all over. Most jws only even were exposed to the info in the Proclaimers book because it was on the TMS and talk #1. But they could have slept through that. Some ex-jws said they left the WTS after reading the book though.
http://www.freeminds.org/history/proclaimers.htm
The WTS replaced the Aid to Bible Understanding book with the 2 volume Insight book...to "update" so I can see the same happening and then the Proclaimers book will be taken off the CD and removed on the 10-year CD on jw.org. All they have to do is wait for the jw boomer generation to die off.
 
yadda yadda 2
yadda yadda 2 2 years ago

Disturbing to see this escalating pattern of equivocating the organisation's accomplishments over the last 100 years with the rule of God's Kingdom.
God's Kingdom = the organisation.
 
Pistoff
Pistoff 2 years ago

Thanks, OwnAccord, you are a trooper!
 
suavojr
suavojr 2 years ago

Thanks
 
OnTheWayOut
OnTheWayOut 2 years ago

In their little "history" book, I hope they include Armageddon not coming in 1914 as expected, 1925's failure of the princes to show up so Rutherford guarded the house for them, 1975, joining the United Nations, removing someone from the Governing Body, and a running tab on how they have had to change "this generation" over the years.
 
OwnAccord
OwnAccord 2 years ago

Sorry about not answering the questions earlier, but:
Was the book printed in Wallkill? - Not sure where it was printed sorry.
Is the book pocket size or magazine size? - The book is magazine size

Someone else asked about the reason for the new recording of song 92 - This is what was mentioned, "Now the song doesn't stop ans [sic] it's like a little march"
 
BluesBrother
BluesBrother 2 years ago

Reading that review...it seems that most of the dubs that I know well, too well?, are not in line for " The Kingdom".. Negativity, 'elder-bashing' reviling, grumbling about the political state of things...anti immigration and Islamaphobia are what bubbles to the surface when they really speak their mind . Of course it is a different mask at the Kingdom Hall.
Dear me, are they still on about this?

INTERVIEW: With young brother who was into rap music. Had to cut it out association with those who like bad music then had to cut out all music as it was
a temptation.
We had all this in the 60's & 70's and the music they derided then is now revered as classics . They never learn do they?
BTW.. Thanks to OwnAccord for a cracking review. I could never be so detailed.
 
baldeagle
baldeagle 2 years ago

Great notes, thank you. Happy I’ll be unable to attend again.
 
snare&racket
snare&racket 2 years ago

How very bland.....and that brochure looks awful. They are so far from the pulse of reality nowadays, it's like they don't want to appeal to normal people!
Don't get me wrong....I am glad of this....
 
sir82
sir82 2 years ago

So it sounds like their intent is to replace the "Proclaimers" book?
That was a whitewashed propaganda piece, but by carefully reading between the lines, you could at least get a sense of the Society's miserable prophetic failures (1874, 1914, 1918, 1925, etc.).
If they have condensed the official "theocratic history" volume down to 240 pages (undoubtedly each page with 2 inch margins and half the pages consisting of photos & charts) it sounds like they are trying to hide everything evenly remotely negative.
 
Londo111
Londo111 2 years ago

Thanks again!
 
breakfast of champions
breakfast of champions 2 years ago

Thanls for the preview OWNACCORD!
 
frankiespeakin
frankiespeakin 2 years ago

A more appropriate theme would be "Keep Seeking First The Imaginary Kingdom Of God Because Dreams Really Do Come True" or "Pull My Finger And Make A Wish" or perhaps just plain old "Listen and Obey, Listen and Obey, Listen and Obey, The Governing Body/Faithful Slave Who Can Do No Wrong Because God Choose Them"
 
factfinder
factfinder 2 years ago

Thank you OwnAccord!
I am eager to read through the new book.
 
Poztate
Poztate 2 years ago

I am looking forward to a review of the new "history book"
How much more can they whitewash things
 
processor
processor 2 years ago

Shouldn't that book look more like that?



 
punkofnice
punkofnice 2 years ago


INTERVIEW: With young brother who was into rap music. Had to cut it out association with those who like bad music then had to cut out all music as it was
a temptation.
Yes. I stopped listening to those turgid Kingdom Melodies(tm).........now I'm free of zombified, mind cleansed(tm) association.
 

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jehovah's help break free.. "greedy people".
but the desire to have more money, power and.
helped student.



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Keep Seeking First God's Kingdom - RC 2014 - Saturday
by OwnAccord 2 years ago 43 Replies latest 2 years ago   watchtower bible
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wannabefree
wannabefree 2 years ago

Title should be ... God's Kingdom Rules Through The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, the Faithful and Discreet Slave Selected By Jesus Because of their Association with The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, Inc. ..... maybe that's a little too long though
 
lrkr
lrkr 2 years ago

"historical facts of theocratic history"

HMMMMM- I think they and I have differing definitions of history.
 
tornapart
tornapart 2 years ago

Marked
 
cofty
cofty 2 years ago

Thanks.
We must realize we completely depend on Jehovah's guidance and protection like child with parents.
It is one of my biggest complaints against all religions. They infantilise their adherents.
 

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Topic Summary
jehovah's help break free.. "greedy people".
but the desire to have more money, power and.
helped student.



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Does growing up in a religious family make you MEAN?
by Divergent 4 months ago
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by fulltimestudent 7 months ago
defender of truth
Please, help me to show the USA that a public inquiry into child abuse...
by defender of truth 6 months ago
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by Diogenesister 3 months ago



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ANNUAL REPORT OF JW PREACHING ACTIVITY NOW DROPPED FROM THE WATCHTOWER!!!
by steve2 8 years ago 15 Replies latest 8 years ago   watchtower bible
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steve2
steve2 8 years ago

The annual report will no longer appear in The Watchtower. Starting in 2008, it will appear as an insert in Our Kingdom Ministry as well as in the Yearbook.
For more than seventy years, the annual report of the worldwide activity of JWs has been proudly publicised in the January 1st editions - and more latterly the February 1st editions of the Watchtower magazine. The annual reports were announced as so important that they constituted proof of Jehovah's blessing on the preaching ministry. Little wonder the language in the accompanying articles generously focused on the increases and - if mentioned at all - downplayed the stagnation or decrease.
This has now changed. Starting from 2008, the report will not be included in the Watchtower magazine. This is yet another significant change that has been mentioned only in passing i.e. see January 15th 2008 Watchtower for the above announcement).
Increasingly, it looks like information on JW activity and growth - and/or stagnation and decrease - will only be known to those who have access to the Kingdom Ministry or the Yearbooks.
I'm sure that those of us outside the organization will still get the information from the annual report sooner or later anyway. However, it is extremely revealing that the information the organization once considered to be highly important for public dissemination is now confined to publications that have a more restricted readership. tuned.
 
changeling
changeling 8 years ago

Interesting!
IMO this is definitely a move to deflect attention from "bad" numbers. Not all witnesses read the Yearbook. Some don't pay much attention to the KM. But almost everyone sees the WT. Especially the Sunday study articles, which the report was always in.
If I were still and active dub, I'd be extatic, I alwys felt that was the most boring WT study of the year!
changeling
 
Elsewhere
Elsewhere 8 years ago

They should not have moved the information to the Kingdom Ministry. I have a hunch that the new "Study Edition" of the Watchtower will eventually replace the Kingdom Ministry. This will allow the WTS to "simplify" further to save even more printing money.
 
Homerovah the Almighty
Homerovah the Almighty 8 years ago

I guess their not too proud of their statistics, particularly in North America
Time to put those stats under cover for obvious reasons
Are the GB members starting to hide under their desks, tine will only tell
 
stillajwexelder
stillajwexelder 8 years ago

I have a hunch that the new "Study Edition" of the Watchtower will eventually replace the Kingdom Ministry.
I agree - this has to be on the cards
 
wha happened?
wha happened? 8 years ago

How very true. Hide the decline from the outside world. No more bragging about growth
 
WTWizard
WTWizard 8 years ago

I hope this is because they are too embarrassed about the declines to report it in the open. And this time I hope their decline is permanent, and they never gain any members back. As for those few Witlesses that are left, they can keep wasting their time knocking on doors and getting pails of cold water dumped on them.
 
momzcrazy
momzcrazy 8 years ago

I asked my mom-in-law about it and she acted like it was no big deal, we are just protecting info from getting into the wrong hands. Good luck with that.
 
new boy
new boy 8 years ago

Even when it shows their numbers falling off....It still proves them right again..
"Jehovah has speeded up the work".......because they have less people!
For it is written the "Love of the greater numbers will cool off!"
 
metatron
metatron 8 years ago

They need to do this because while they are growing worldwide, some countries aren't and it
appears to be permanent. Nearly all of Europe is headed towards zero or negative growth
and it's an embarrassment to them. How can they whip up any enthusiasm in a country like
Denmark?

metatron
 
mcsemike
mcsemike 8 years ago

How does the growth or decline numbers "get into the wrong hands"?? I thought the growth numbers were the WT's proof that they had the truth. And of course, if they go down, then Jehovah is "doing a refining work". They think they win either way. But if the "refinement" goes on long enough, JW's will be dying of old age/sickness and some will quit. If no one comes into the WT, they have to die off except for the few diehards. They can't possibly accomplish any significant preaching work. That will start a "catch 22" situation and they will dwindle even more. I'm not sure, but I hope this is the beginning of the end. I'd love to live long enough to see them fold up completely.
 
Paralipomenon
Paralipomenon 8 years ago

Rather than fold completely, I'd expect them to eventually reform like the WWCOG and lose most of their members, but keep a small dedicated following that will continue to cater to them for a long time to come.
 
minimus
minimus 8 years ago

......just another proof that we're living in the very last days of the last days.
 
ush419
ush419 8 years ago

Maybe the growth or lack thereof needs to be hidden, you know one of the mysteries of the Goberning Bodice only for the eyes of gullible er rank and file. Now we are going to be having a self service meeting part about the "fing" growth blah blah blah.
 
cultswatter
cultswatter 8 years ago

Ya I remember in the good old days that they were all bragging just like Carl Sagan with their BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of new publishers. OH BRUDDERS IS JEHOVAH BLESSING US NOW?? (heavy jewish accent) Jehobbys blessing is over and now it's KINGDOM CRUNCH
 
still_in74
still_in74 8 years ago

I have a hunch that the new "Study Edition" of the Watchtower will eventually replace the Kingdom Ministry
i think there was a whole topic dedicated to this hunch.
I have noticed we are already using the WT on various service meeting parts, I read the new edition and it seemed that we might begin using the WT more often as a service meeting publication. This could have deeper articles than the KM but be produced much easier and more rapidly than books. This would have us studying the WT for more than just Sunday and really enforce that the WT is the main publication of the JW's.
As for replacing the KM, I dont see it happening.......... although I cant say that it couldnt happen
 

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In Germany, the Watchtower logo must be removed from all kingdom halls
by processor 7 years ago 67 Replies latest 7 years ago   watchtower beliefs
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processor
processor 7 years ago

According to German April issue of Our Kingdom Ministry, the Watchtower logo must be removed from all Kingdom Halls:
KB

It sais that the Watchtower logo - a stylised watchtower or a watchtower with a Bible - is used by the Watchtower Society. Thus, it should not be used by congregations or private persons, neither on Kingdom halls, stationary or anything else. People might think it would be an official building or letter of the Watchtower Society though it is not.
The logo must be removed from all kingdom halls, except where that is difficult; in these cases, it must be removed when the building is renovated next time.
 
OnTheWayOut
OnTheWayOut 7 years ago

It sounds like something legal. Some mumbo jumbo.
It could be that the organization doesn't want the buildings to be considered corporate assets.
That could be because of a lawsuit or a property issue with the government.
Only WE will ever hear the truth of the matter once you all dig into it.
 
sir82
sir82 7 years ago

Most interesting. I wonder if this is a German thing, a European thing, or a worldwide thing? We'll have to wait to see what April's US KM looks like.
And the process of distancing themselves from the congregations, and potential litigation, continues. Tends to lend credence to the "no more COs" rumors - a likely cause of that, if true, would be to limit liability by severing a direct link between HQ and the congregations.
 
garybuss
garybuss 7 years ago

Hmmmmmm! I thought that Jehovah's Witnesses owned the Watch Tower Society. Guess it must be the other way around huh?


 
jeeprube
jeeprube 7 years ago

Bah hah hah hah! We need more of this.
 
betterdaze
betterdaze 7 years ago


it must be removed then the building is renovated next time.
With the END SO NEAR, why does the Watchtower Society have such an active Kingdom Hall renovations program?
Could it not be to squeeze more $$$ from the "friends"?
~Sue
 
processor
processor 7 years ago

Actually ... am I allowed to own a copy of the Watchtower? It contains the protected Watchtower logo!
 
leavingwt
leavingwt 7 years ago

CYA
 
Clam
Clam 7 years ago

Processor this must be something to do with the launch of the Witchtower and Erbrechet. It's more than coincidence.
 
slimboyfat
slimboyfat 7 years ago

It's as if the Watchtower Society wants to pretend it has nothing to do with local congregations.
First they get rid of the Book Study and now this? Where does the madness stop?
I truly think the Watchtower leadership have lost their minds. How much of the organization is going to be left intact by the time they are through?
 
yknot
yknot 7 years ago

How very very interesting........
They just now passed out our March KMs!
I particularly find the comments about 'private persons'...... wonder if this will be in the other language KMs!
I see businesses like ministryideaz having to change some inventory..... if it is put into English.
WT logo items are HUGH esp during the Memorial and DC!
 
processor
processor 7 years ago

Processor this must be something to do with the launch of the Witchtower and Erbrechet. It's more than coincidence.
Actually, the Witchtower copied the exact Watchtower design except the logo. It was omitted from the beginning. Seems that Jehovah gave me prophetic insight to know of the change before it was published.
And Erbrechet! has been launched in December 2007. Though the "new light" takes some hundred years from the Pleiades to Brooklyn (a fact that will be covered in one of the next Witchtower issues), it cannot be the reason.
 
blondie
blondie 7 years ago

Actually, I think worldwide that KHs cannot put 'JEHOVAH'S CHRISTIAN WITNESSES" on their signs................weird
 
purplesofa
purplesofa 7 years ago

you have some very beautiful pics at your site.
purps
 
daniel-p
daniel-p 7 years ago

Does this means that my gold Watchtower tie pin will be worth something a hundred years from now?
 
Elsewhere
Elsewhere 7 years ago

There must have been a lawsuit against a local congregation with the WTS as a co-defendant.
The WTS probably tried to say they had no legal ties with the local congregation but the court didn't buy it when photos were produced with the Watchtower logo on the building or other related material for the local congregation.
 
sir82
sir82 7 years ago


The WTS probably tried to say they had no legal ties with the local congregation but the court didn't buy it when photos were produced with the Watchtower logo on the building or other related material for the local congregation.
Good bet!
Any attorneys on here who would know how to research to see if such a case occurred recently?
 
daniel-p
daniel-p 7 years ago

Thats a litt e far-fetched, imo. There are innumerable ways to prove that a JW congregation is linked to the WTS other than physical signs.
 
Mickey mouse
Mickey mouse 7 years ago

Interesting.
 
coffee_black
coffee_black 7 years ago

Weird.
Coffee
 

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In Germany, the Watchtower logo must be removed from all kingdom halls
by processor 7 years ago 67 Replies latest 7 years ago   watchtower beliefs
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purplesofa
purplesofa 7 years ago

Is the WT logo, a Watchtower, insulting or demeaning, offensive in Germany in some way?
 
sacolton
sacolton 7 years ago

Honestly, I don't recall seeing the Watchtower logo on any of the congregation signs.
 
Awakened at Gilead
Awakened at Gilead 7 years ago

Maybe the WT logo is tantamount to the cross for Christendom, lol
 
still_in74
still_in74 7 years ago

well this is the society protecting us for when we are under ban! we wont be so easily identified by Satan. Praise the FDS/GB ! They love us so much, and we love them! We love our leaders! Thanks be to the FDS/GB !
Or maybe the Watchtower has a name change on the horizon??? hmmm????? I wonder what their new name & logo is going to be????? hmm......
 
still_in74
still_in74 7 years ago


Honestly, I don't recall seeing the Watchtower logo on any of the congregation signs.

I have seen them. I remember about 20 years ago a KH built a sign out of brick and put a watchtower in it. A few years later they dismantled it and made a new sign because the WT was a copy righted logo. This was probably 15 years ago or more.....
 
+
+ 7 years ago



 
Mickey mouse
Mickey mouse 7 years ago

Good thinking still_in 74. A name change. In this thread by jeffreywhat, he said:
This is an old thread but where I stated that there will be changes made that are so big old timers wont deal with it.
Book study is gone, we know that now.
Next comes theocratic structure PO, Co etc.
Then comes the change in witnessing ( big one!!)
Then come the change in name, bigger again.
And more........
Told you didnt I!! :smile:
 
yknot
yknot 7 years ago


Frankfurt KH.....
 
yknot
yknot 7 years ago

I wonder how many KHs will be in need of 'remodeling'?
I guess the RBC is the main money maker outside of assemblies and conventions.
 
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 7 years ago

The WBT$ does`nt want to be associated with Jehovah`s Witness`s????!!!!.....LOL!!!!!!!!!!..
Laughing Mutley...OUTLAW
 
truthsetsonefree
truthsetsonefree 7 years ago

Its something legal, dealing with logos and trademarks I'm sure.
Isaac
 
JWdaughter
JWdaughter 7 years ago

This is all about removing all comments about how their 'insignia' is as bad as a cross or other idolatrous(in their view) image. Or, they have decided that new buildings would be a good thing for the building/REAL ESTATE program. Probably get to kill two birds with that stone.
I would be interested to see a English translation of the entire article. It looks like a question from readers, but as my German language exposure was about 4 weeks in jr. high, I am just going by the way it looks in the WT 'style'.
 
TheOldHippie
TheOldHippie 7 years ago

Nothin' new. Ain't allowed over here, and never has been. It is the logo to be used by HQ and brach and nothin' else.
 
processor
processor 7 years ago

Is the WT logo, a Watchtower, insulting or demeaning, offensive in Germany in some way
No, except that people may link it to Jehovah's Witnesses (who most people don't like)
 
fjtoth
fjtoth 7 years ago

At least one famous Nazi concentration camp had a guard tower that resembled the WT logos used on some Kingdom Halls, such as those that appear in the above photos. Such logos do not look similar to the the Society's official logo.
Pictures of concentration camp towers have appeared off and on in German magazines and are representative of Nazi anti-semitism. Possibly the Society's higher-ups are fearful that Kingdom Halls bearing a watchtower logo might give the impression of being meeting houses for Jew haters. This is, after all, a period when anti-semitism is on the rise in Europe.
 
parakeet
parakeet 7 years ago

Maybe the German government will soon require that all KHs display a purple triangle instead of the WT logo. Seriously, wouldn't the dubs just love that as a symbol of persecution, thus proving they have The Truth?
 
sacolton
sacolton 7 years ago

I really think it shows how un-Christian the congregations appear from the outside. People driving by usually identify a Christian church with a cross, but the Kingdom Halls use a Watchtower logo - the first indication that there's trouble within (and very true).
 
Xavier1
Xavier1 7 years ago

Well i suppose the WT will proove all congregation around the world are free. And the magazines are only spiritual food apprciate by th JW. It doesnt exist a connection between conregation and head quarter.
Xavier
 
parakeet
parakeet 7 years ago

A watchtower can be used to watch that those within cannot get out. It's the perfect symbol for WTS tyranny.
 
processor
processor 7 years ago

I suppose the WT will proove all congregation around the world are free
AFAIK all kingdom halls in Germany belong to the Watchtower Society now. Some weeks before I left JWs, an elderly sister complained about the fact that the kingdom hall that was built with her money has been transferred to the WTS.
 

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Topic Summary
according to german april issue of our kingdom ministry, the watchtower logo must be removed from all kingdom halls:.
it sais that the watchtower logo - a stylised watchtower or a watchtower with a bible - is used by the watchtower society.
thus, it should not be used by congregations or private persons, neither on kingdom halls, stationary or anything else.



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In Germany, the Watchtower logo must be removed from all kingdom halls
by processor 7 years ago 67 Replies latest 7 years ago   watchtower beliefs
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zagor
zagor 7 years ago

They are behaving more and more as a company... now a billion dollar question is, does that means they have no claim on properties where KH are located?
 
Gayle
Gayle 7 years ago

This is interesting. Is the WTS trying to make is look like the Kingdom Halls do not belong to a religion headquartered in Brooklyn NY? Could the Germany government be questioning the ownership? It would be great if the German government would require that the Kingdom Hall belongs to the local people instead, and not a foreign entity.
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

My understanding is that this watchtower symbol is NOT exclusive to the Watchtower Society. I think they can make "their" Kingdom Halls abide but I don't think they can truly enforce this on someone else.
 
Aaac
Aaac 7 years ago

This same happens in Finland, too.
 
+
+ 7 years ago

Yearbook 1996 p. 110


Calendar 2002 May



Watchtower 11.1 2004 p. 21





Yearbook 2006 p. 158



Yearbook 2004 p. 252



Yearbook 2001 p. 24



p. 251


Yearbook 1988 p. 18


 
watson
watson 7 years ago

I cannot make sense of your post, oh potent one.
 
processor
processor 7 years ago

I cannot make sense of your post, oh potent one.
It shows using official pictures from WT literature that the Watchtower logo is used on various kingdom halls - which is illegal according to new km.
 
reniaa
reniaa 7 years ago

This looks like an idol issue, I think the gb do keep tabs on what is being said and obviously they feel having a logo be prominent is goign to far down that road, I've certainly seen people accuse them of it with watchtower on this forum, the fact it covers more than just the building makes me more convinced this isn't just a logo issue because it covers to many things.
lol what would you do if they did change the wt name they are quite capable of it? they put no store by these things.
 
Amha·’aret
Amha·’aret 7 years ago

I think there's a bug somewhere. The end of page 3 of this thread is not visible to me. Anyone know how to fix it? No point replying to me via this thread as I won't be able to see it.
 
kurtbethel
kurtbethel 7 years ago

Yearbook 2004 p. 252 - Obelisk, Satan's "member". Major idolatry there!
Satan's member
 
cameo-d
cameo-d 7 years ago

I don't think WT is being singled out. I think there is a movement now in response to religious displays of any kind. I think we are beginning to see it come to fruition not just because of icons being removed and certain religious garb being banned, but also in the "inter-faith" movements.

Jan. 2009
Parents win fight to remove class crucifix
Graham Keeley ("The Times", January 16, 2009)
Barcelona, Spain - The ongoing row between the Catholic Church and the Spanish Government has erupted again after a judge banned the crucifix from a primary school.
The ruling came after parents won a three-year legal battle with the local authorities over a crucifix in Macias Picavea school in Valladolid, northern Spain.
The Valladolid Cultural Association for Lay Schools argued that crucifixes infringed the 1978 Constitution, which establishes Spain as a non-denominational state but recognises individual religious rights.
Judge Alejandro Valentín Sastre ruled that “the presence of religious symbols such as a crucifix is an element of aggression which infringes rights and freedoms”.
The courtroom victory came late last year and has reignited a debate about the place of religious symbols in what was once one of Europe's most devoutly Catholic countries. Ten years of one of the fastest rising rates of immigration on the Continent has increased the number of Muslims, Protestants and other religions in Spain.
And amid discontentment with the right-wing stance of Catholic hierarchy in Spain, many people are leaving the Church.
Fernando Pastor, 47, whose six-year-old daughter attends the school, led the secular campaign. “What stunned me was not so much that the cross was nailed to a wall but that it was at the head of a public educational activity which was not confessional,” Mr Pastor said.
The Episcopal Conference, the ruling body of the Roman Catholic Church, condemned the ruling. Archbishop Carlos Amigo, the Cardinal of Seville, said: “The most important thing is to educate the children to respect religious symbols of all types.”
The Catholic Confederation of School Parents said that the ruling was symptomatic of a “campaign of rabid secularism against religious symbols”.

The crucifix has been banned in several places in the name of separation of Church and State and pluralism. Many religions and philosophies, such as some branches of Protestantism, Islam, Judaism and Secularism are thought to have a particular distaste for crucifixes. Accusations range from anti-pluralism to calling it idolatry, even though Catholic Christians and others who used the crucifix in religious rites do not worship the image itself.
In 2005, a mother accused her daughter's school of discriminating against Christians after the teenager was suspended for refusing to take off a crucifix necklace. [4]
British Airways has faced legal action and calls for a boycott by Christians after it ruled an employee could not display a crucifix the size of a five pence piece on her necklace. [5] A British prison ordered a multi-faith chapel to remove all crucifixes, presumably in order to not offend Muslims. [6]
In Spain, a local judge to order all crucifixes removed from public schools in order to settle a decades-old row over whether crucifixes should be displayed in public buildings in a non-confessional state. [7]
A 2008 Quebec government report recommended that the crucifix of the National Assembly be removed in order to achieve greater pluralism, but the local Liberal party refused to. [8]
 
processor
processor 7 years ago

German user "wasistwahrheit" found out that the new regulation is actually "new light", for this was the previous teaching:
*** g76 11/22 p. 28 Does Christianity Have a Visible Symbol? ***
The Bible, however, sets forth no visible symbol for Christianity. Christians today, therefore, must be on guard not to adopt such a symbol. For example, watchtower-like designs appear on some buildings and Kingdom Halls of Jehovah’s Witnesses. There is nothing wrong with these in themselves. Possibly they may help persons to identify property owned by Jehovah’s Witnesses. However, at no time should anyone look upon such things with reverence, as if they were a visible sign of Christianity.

By the way:
http://www.watchtower.org/copyright.htm
Watchtower and the Watchtower logo are registered trademarks of Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania.
 
garybuss
garybuss 7 years ago

This is the Kingdom Hall in Sioux Falls at 2020 S Norton. It was built
in the mid 50's. The building was built by Witnesses to look like a
Watchtower. It was later remodeled with a new facade and later still
sold to the Charles Mead group.

`
 
parakeet
parakeet 7 years ago

Provided by processor: " For example, watchtower-like designs appear on some buildings and Kingdom Halls of Jehovah’s Witnesses. There is nothing wrong with these in themselves. Possibly they may help persons to identify property owned by Jehovah’s Witnesses. However, at no time should anyone look upon such things with reverence, as if they were a visible sign of Christianity."

Since the WTS claims JWs are the only true Christian religion, how can any dub looking at a watchtower on a kingdom hall NOT view it as a visible sign of Christianity, i.e. Dubism?
Sorry, gb, the cat's out of the bag. You may as well run with it and maybe make some extra money at the same time. Watchtower pendants, Watchtower rosaries (count a bead everytime you hear the word "Jehovah"), Watchtower T-shirts for dub picnics (oh, forgot -- they're forbidden now), Watchtower neckties for fs, Watchtower playhouses for little dubbies to play with in the backyard. Yes, I see a real moneymaker here.
 
orangefatcat
orangefatcat 7 years ago

It doesn't make sense, have you any idea how many of the oldest churches in Europe and Germany have
Watchtowers on their churches.? I can't see it being for that reason. There must be a different reason.
Witnesses are probably making nuisances of themselves and maybe it was the WTS told them
to remove them from the halls because the symbol belongs exclusively to the WTS.
Ofc.
 
JWdaughter
JWdaughter 7 years ago

SA COLTON SAIDP: "I really think it shows how un-Christian the congregations appear from the outside. People driving by usually identify a Christian church with a cross, but the Kingdom Halls use a Watchtower logo - the first indication that there's trouble within (and very true)."

I think you are right! Think with all the different groups around, the Jews have their indication, the Muslims have theirs, there are some disctinctive Buddhist buildings around here also. You even usually can recognize an orthodox church because of their decorative choices. What is a watchtower(?) but a way to make people wonder what the hell kind of religion it is? What god do they believe in? What cult is it? Plenty of churches don't have a cross outside, but one knows it is a Christian church because of the name. Jehovah's Witnesses don't really make it clear from the start that they are (supposedly) christians, and the name and insignia just muddies that already nasty puddle they call religion.
And making sure they don't come across as a Nazi church could matter.(Another poster stated it) Esp. in Germany where they might make that connection.
 
processor
processor 7 years ago

Any news on this? Does anyone have the April issue of the US Kingdom Ministry by now?
 
compound complex
compound complex 7 years ago

I cannot recall the African country [or countries], circa 1970, that had a political party using a watchtower logo, but The Watchtower we produced for that country had no watchtower on its cover, and that purposefully.
CC
 
dozy
dozy 7 years ago

I know a few creative brickies who put a Watchtower logo on quickbuild halls. Not RBC approved.
The emphasis on "Watchtower" and liberal use of the symbol has always struck me as being somewhat idolotrous and I know causes disquiet to some sincere high-up JWs. Increasingly the WTS seems to be trying to distance the "corporate" arm from JWs in general and using the expression "the Society" is frowned upon. The legal documents in the California paedophile case describe the WTS lawyers efforts in trying to claim that the WTS had nothing to do the congregations concerned , other than as a supplier of literature and occasional pastoral advice - an argument somewhat difficult to sustain if Watchtower logos are plastered all over the Kingdom Halls!
An obvious change would be to reincorporate the bulk of the WTS , perhaps under the title "Christian cong of Jehovah's Witnesses" or similar. The WTS could act as the holding arm for the assets , cash , investments and (primarily) property. A similar system operates in the UK , with IBSA as the asset holding entity , with the WTS of Britain as a "trading" organisation. This ringfences the bulk of the WTS assets from any legal claims.
Such a change would serve 2 purposes - legal protection and a perception of removing any suggestion of idolotry. If the WTS can tie it in with any Daniel prophecy (eg 2300 days etc - as it has done in the past) , then so much the better.
 
Will Power
Will Power 7 years ago

Maybe corporate knows that there will eventually be a lawsuit on the other side of the Atlantic, like there was in California, and they are preparing their distance & severed ties. Wasn't it little KH insurance policies that connected Brooklyn $$$ to California?

WillPower
 

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Topic Summary
according to german april issue of our kingdom ministry, the watchtower logo must be removed from all kingdom halls:.
it sais that the watchtower logo - a stylised watchtower or a watchtower with a bible - is used by the watchtower society.
thus, it should not be used by congregations or private persons, neither on kingdom halls, stationary or anything else.



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In Germany, the Watchtower logo must be removed from all kingdom halls
by processor 7 years ago 67 Replies latest 7 years ago   watchtower beliefs
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Will Power
Will Power 7 years ago

p.s. especially with that German WT leader that just resigned....... hmmmm wonder what he knows? I'd be gettin my self some body guards if I was even related to that guy.
 
processor
processor 7 years ago

hat German WT leader that just resigned
Whom do you mean? Johannes Wrobel? He was the head of the WT historic archive, but not really a "WT leader".
Also, he published that he "ended his work contract with the Watchtower Society". We do not know if he is still a JW or not.
 
Will Power
Will Power 7 years ago

My mistake - not leader - but certainly someone with access to historical, possibly sensitive, internal documents etc.
With the WT track record, it wouldn't be that difficult to stumble onto something morally/ethically/tax$$$$ damaging
wp
 
processor
processor 7 years ago

Someone in Germany who met Johannes Wrobel a few times called him an unusually sincere and honest man who sooner or later had to notice that something is wrong ...
 
purplesofa
purplesofa 7 years ago

Just wanted to get this KM in on this thread.
purps



 
Gladring
Gladring 7 years ago

Purps - what date is on that KM? I don't see it on the scan.
 
purplesofa
purplesofa 7 years ago

April 2009 http://www.zshare.net/image/57148402b5d767f8/

I got it from this thread
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/172785/1/KM-04-09-Our-Kingdom-Ministry-April-2009-courtesy-of-ILOOWY
 
Gill
Gill 7 years ago

Slowly, step by step, the Watchtower ORganization is retreating from the lives of its slave and pretending 'We never knew them! Who are they?'
In reality they remain in control of the financial assets of the congregations and yet to all intents and purposes they are carefully escaping all responsibility and at any point in the future will pull the rug from under the remaining JWs, force sales of all KHs, and run away with the money! This money, of course, will have been legally signed away and 'donated' by the loving, stupid, brothers and the game will be over.......fianlly. Oh to be able to follow that money trail as the trap is sprung, baited and ready to go!

This is just the beginning........watch this space...
 

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according to german april issue of our kingdom ministry, the watchtower logo must be removed from all kingdom halls:.
it sais that the watchtower logo - a stylised watchtower or a watchtower with a bible - is used by the watchtower society.
thus, it should not be used by congregations or private persons, neither on kingdom halls, stationary or anything else.



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INSTRUCTIONS FOR OUR CHRISTIAN LIFE AND MINISTRY MEETING
by pixel 5 months ago
Saved_JW
Jehovah's Witnesses - People of Integrity
by Saved_JW 5 months ago
Watchtower-Free
Latest Leaked BOE letter to Elders Oct. 4th
by Watchtower-Free 6 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Brownstoner: How the Jehovah’s Witnesses Acquired Some of Brooklyn’s Most Insanely Valuable Properties
by AndersonsInfo a month ago



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July Kingdom Ministry
by CloseTheDoor  17 Replies latest    watchtower beliefs
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CloseTheDoor
CloseTheDoor

The July 2015 Kingdom Ministry says JWs can't do international outreach through the internet, but to instead, point someone in the direction of jw.org site.
It's just another form of control. The individual publisher is forced to send the interested one to a website fully controlled by the Borg.





galaxie
galaxie

In short...go to mother like good obedient little children and do not use your own initiative...or suffer the consequences!!! No adult independent reasoning required.
This directive from the borg is about control !!

CloseTheDoor
CloseTheDoor
Mother, do these underwear match these socks?


stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2

Again, HOW DID WE not see just how controlling the org is sooner??!
(next they will be directing how many sheets of toilet paper each person can use!)

Quarterback
Quarterback
They do tell you how many sheets to dry your hands at the conventions. I guess I now have to discontinue my membership at Christian Mingle. I will say this, it's getting harder and harder to count my FS time for Auxilliary Pioneering

Brokeback Watchtower
Brokeback Watchtower
The guys who right this shit are all governing Body ass kissers. They are so paranoid of the rank and file talking to strangers to them the whole world is evil and not to be trusted which are mere psychological projections of their own devious nature in which they are in denial of big time.

NewYork44M
NewYork44M
Yet again, the society shows their totally ignorance of the internet. aren't "chat rooms" 20 years old. I think they still view the internet with their Prodigy dial up.

brandnew
brandnew
Ummmmmmmmmm......i say .do whatcha want ! ! ! !

Oubliette
Oubliette

Ok, y'all know what I'm gonna say!
Let's review: It's a cult!





leaving_quietly
leaving_quietly

Overheard conversation before the meeting:
Brother (speaking to Service Overseer): "Well, Brother So-and-so is a pioneer. Shouldn't he be able to do this?"
My ears tuned into the conversation.
Service Overseer: "Weellllll, that's a decision for the service committee."
Brother: "Oh. I thought anyone who qualified could do it. I mean, you're just sitting there."
I figured out they were talking about cart witnessing, newly implemented in our cong.
Service Overseer: "Well, see, you gotta be outgoing. That's one of the qualifications."
By this time, my attention got diverted, but this just made me shake my head. The brother had a point, all you're doing is sitting there. The REGULAR PIONEER brother was NOT ALLOWED to SIT at a cart because he's NOT OUTGOING ENOUGH!!!!!






rip van winkle
rip van winkle

I like this.

username
username
Notice they admit some countries do not have Kingdom Halls therefore Mathew 24:14 has not actually been fulfilled.

blondie
blondie
I say be careful, many non-jws are deceived by people over the internet.

steve2
steve2

Bizarre. The argument is murky.

cantleave
cantleave
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBkTUzKAiXQ

Brokeback Watchtower
Brokeback Watchtower
They/GB still view the internet as the devils eye ball, and so all the caution about witnessing to "strangers" who just might be the enemy.

leaving_quietly
leaving_quietly
Speculation: It's probably a legal issue. If authorities in another country gets wind that one of their citizens is getting preached to by a JW and that country happens to ban JWs, the organization could get in legal trouble. I suspect this has happened. I have no proof, of course. Just speculation.


steve2
steve2

This is most likely a legal caution - but it would be important for them not to over-emphasise the legal aspects - hence my earlier comment about the murky reasoning evident in the kingdom ministry article.
For example, in Malaysia and indonesia, JWs can meet together in kingdom halls, but as with all other "Christian" religious groups in those countries cannot "proselytize".
If it transpires that JWs in other countries use the internet to promulgate religious views to nonwitnesses in, say Malaysia, and it comes to light through someone in Malaysia complaining (and the Police needing to press charges of "religious offense") the Malaysian governmental authorities would hold the local JW representatives responsible.
If you think this kind of convoluted way of laying down the law is far-fetched, you don't know much about the lengths the Kuala Lumpur seat of power goes to make a point (I worked in KL in the eatly 2000s and was often astonished at the 'swallow the camel, but strain the gnat' mentality of the governmental authorities - especially towards minority groups, Christian or otherwise).
By contrast, the social contract of individuals of their own volition contacting a website such as jw..org to request literature does NOT constitute proselytising by legal definition - provided those individuals do not also request a visit - and here's the kicker - unless they already belong to a registered "Christian" group (e.g., 7th-Day Adventist, Roman Catholic, etc).


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