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Go my invite / think I am now a Do Not Call
by rebelfighter  10 hours ago 10 Replies latest 5 hours ago   jw friends
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rebelfighter
rebelfighter  10 hours ago

My son says hey mom that's your doorbell. So answer it. Next I get, mom it is the Jehovah Witnesses. I go to the door and there is a man and a woman and my son takes off the other way. The man says any particular reason why he called you to the door. Nope. So I ask what position do you hold at the KH, MS, Elder or ....? He hesitated then said you have a history with the Jehovah Witnesses? Nope just an interest in the organization, so what is your title. Special Pioneer. So why are interested in the JWs? I am a child's advocate, have either of you heard of the Australian Royal Commission? Got a firm no from both. I explain that the WT turned over the files of 1006 pedophile that exist in the KH in Australia that have never been reported to the police who committed 1700 rapes of children. His response was I take it this is something you read in the media and I said no I watched the entire trial from victims, through Elders, Circuit Overseers, WT Lawyers, even G. Jackson All these people were lying after taking an oath on the Bible.
I brought up Candace Conti and Lopez. They stated that these were just slander against JW you cannot belieive what you read. I asked him how can you not believr what happens in a court if law. I just kept getting imperfect men. Imperfect men. Also told the lady I am a woman's advocate.
I just continued talking, he continued saying we have other appoints we must get to which I used as the next subject. I asked if they would go online and look up the ARC they both said no it is just people trying to damage their fine organization.
In the beginning of all this my son and his wife and their babies exited through the garage door as usual my son being the smart one stuck his head around the corner and said I wish the two of you good luck.
I do believe I might be on a Do not call list. LOL
 +21 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 9 hours ago
Burying their heads in the sand....against all "those apostate driven LIES" of the media.....
 +4 / -0
stan livedeath
stan livedeath 9 hours ago
how do they know its apostate lies--if theyve never heard of it ?
 +3 / -0
possum
possum 9 hours ago
Add to that list Activist. Great Job
 +3 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 8 hours ago


He continued saying we have other appoints we must get to..
Since When do JW`s Make Appointments,to Bother You at Home?
.
...............................It`s WBT$/JW..

..............Theocratic Warfare Strategy/Lying..

.............Image result for Lying businessman
 +5 / -0
Freeandclear
Freeandclear 8 hours ago
Awesome job!! So blind to the real truth......if only they knew they could be so much happier.
 +1 / -0
talesin
talesin 7 hours ago
Well done!
 +2 / -0
JWdaughter
JWdaughter 6 hours ago
I wish they'd come to my door!
 +1 / -0
Pete Zahut
Pete Zahut 6 hours ago


I brought up Candace Conti and Lopez. They stated that these were just slander against JW you cannot belieive what you read.
Unless you read something favorable about JW's....then you can count on it being 100% accurate but the rest of the time it's all lies.

 +4 / -0
zeb
zeb 6 hours ago

As an advocate for children I can imagine the sadness's and horror stories you have heard and deal with. You have my utmost respect and indeed affection for the task you are doing. Please don't forget yourself that this work takes a terrible toll out of your own being and we are not 'bullet' proof. About the time you think you are handling the matter well is about the time you will need TLC. I speak from experience and I am blessed with some wonderful friends and a fine counsellor. be kind to yourself.
and your callers get my contempt for their wilful blindness. When the world turns on the wts they will scream from their million dollar rooftops of their 'persecution'.
 

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Go my invite / think I am now a Do Not Call
by rebelfighter  10 hours ago 10 Replies latest 5 hours ago   jw friends
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rebelfighter
rebelfighter  5 hours ago

Zeb,
My fb page is linked to multiple Shriner's Hospital pages and an organization called HIKE (Hearing Impaired Kids Endowment ) along with many organizations that help abuse kids in need that I support in fund raising. When I see the success stories that is what I need to keep me motivated to continue my charity work that I am so passionate about.
 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
my son says hey mom that's your doorbell.
so answer it.
next i get, mom it is the jehovah witnesses.



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Did You Get Invited to the Memorial?
by Ding 11 hours ago 18 Replies latest 5 minutes ago   jw experiences
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Ding
Ding 11 hours ago

I'm just wondering if JWs keep inviting you back or if they've given up on you.
They haven't invited me for years.

 
adjusted knowledge
adjusted knowledge 11 hours ago
no, did it already pass?

 
OneEyedJoe
OneEyedJoe 10 hours ago
I did, but this is my first memorial as anything other than a regular publisher.
 
Ucantnome
Ucantnome 10 hours ago
I had three
 
Ding
Ding 10 hours ago
It's tonight, March 23.

 
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 10 hours ago

Memorial season, just like constipation and all of WT's failed prophecies - it will pass.
But no, no invite.
I am pretty sure there was movement at the station and word has got around that "......whisper, whisper.... shh. Have you heard.....sparrowdown is a ....is a........apostate!"
 +1 / -0
ToesUp
ToesUp 10 hours ago
Nope. We're devastated....NOT!
 +1 / -0
Witness My Fury
Witness My Fury 10 hours ago

No.
 +1 / -0
Designer Stubble
Designer Stubble 10 hours ago
They have given up on me. 8 years out, first year no invite.
 
compound complex
compound complex 9 hours ago

YES.
Many JWs on Facebook responded to my words of thanks and love for their kindness to me over the years. I live a long ways from the KH and was assured I would get there tonight if I had no transportation.
I will be attending two Memorials because I need to see friends and family before I die. I say that in all sincerity, without wishing to sound maudlin. These people have meant the world to me, going back as far back as 50 years. If they were in trouble because of their faith -- the one that I have abandoned -- I would be there for them.
Despite the butterflies in my stomach, I am hoping that, by this evening, the winged creatures will all be flying in formation.
Best regards, whatever you end up doing.
CoCo
 +3 / -0

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Did You Get Invited to the Memorial?
by Ding 11 hours ago 18 Replies latest 6 minutes ago   jw experiences
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Closer to Fine
Closer to Fine 8 hours ago
I've received more pressure to attend the memorial this year than ever before. My decision not to go did not go over well and I don't know what to expect from the JW's in my family now. Some of them already shun me even though I'm not baptized, so maybe all of them will shun me now. That will just be more proof to me that their love is conditional. I guess I'll find out tomorrow.
 +1 / -0
Dagney
Dagney 8 hours ago
Nope.
 
NewYork44M
NewYork44M 8 hours ago
I guess I could have picked one up from one of the watchtower trolleys that I pass. But in terms of someone actually sending me an invitation the answer is no. Which does not surprise me, I am totally off the WTs radar.
 
Ding
Ding 7 hours ago
I never cease to be amazed by how many people attend an annual "meal" where no one partakes of anything...

 +2 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 4 hours ago

For the first time since starting our "fade" we did not get an invitation......So we did not attend. Why go some event where you are not really welcomed?
Doc

 
James Mixon
James Mixon 4 hours ago
My family would invite Lucifer before they invite me, I haven't receive one in over 10 years.
 +1 / -0
compound complex
compound complex 2 hours ago

I went to two back-to-back Memorials. A sister whom I knew (but didn't recognize me) handed me an invitation to the special talk. I said, "Hi, sister X," and she did a double take. I do not look like a JW.
It was good seeing old friends again.
CC
 +1 / -0
Xanthippe
Xanthippe 14 minutes ago




Nope they were in my street a few weeks ago but they didn't call here. I'm obviously a very scary apostate.
 
Black Sheep
Black Sheep 6 minutes ago
I'm not avoided by Dubs, and am welcomed into their homes, but I haven't been invited to a memorial for well over a decade.

 

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Topic Summary
i'm just wondering if jws keep inviting you back or if they've given up on you.. they haven't invited me for years..



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Didn't go to memorial this year
by silent 5 hours ago 6 Replies latest 43 minutes ago   jw friends
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silent
silent 5 hours ago

My wife and I had business to attend to out of town today and I had thought if we made it back home in time, we'd go to the Memorial. As it turned out, we didn't get home in time and we missed it, but we had a real good talk with each other on the way home. We are largely successful faders and at the very least, I like to try and make the Memorial. Now I do understand there are haters, lovers, and in-betweeners on this board and I respect every one's decisions as to their views of the Witnesses. I told my wife, "Isn't it a sad situation that I have a sincere interest in worshiping my Creator, but the people have made it a very trying task to go to the point they have come between me and my Creator." Growing up a Witness has conditioned me quite severely and dogmatically to think that nothing I do is ever good enough so why try? I couldn't seem to do anything right and when I confessed over some minor things that bothered me years ago, boy did those elders swoop in and drag me into the backroom on a regular basis and of course everyone sees you going in and coming out. It just reinforced my attitude of nothing I ever do is good enough and it's a totally logical conclusion you come to when you're raised in this religion.
So now when I go to the occasional meeting, I am struck with this fight or flight reflex. I can hardly sit still and I want to stand up and bolt for the door - I physically jerk in my seat it's that bad. The times I've gone I try to bolt out right after the prayer or during the song and of course I get the cold stares and looks. I could have gone to the Memorial in the city I was in, but due to me being unshaven, dressed in my work clothes, and not far enough away to the point some people wouldn't recognize me, I told my wife I just couldn't do it due to the judging I would undergo. The religion and the people in it have caused me so much grief and torment that I just can't stand to go back. I physically suffer for about 4 days after attending with depression and symptoms that are very much akin to PTSD - trauma from being in an environment that is toxic to my system.
Sadly it has come to this, and yet I still feel that little something that makes me want to be grateful to a loving Creator and worship Him happily. So how does one go about worshiping properly when you believe most of the teachings of the Witnesses and yet can't stand the very people that are supposed to believe the same as you? It's a weird conundrum to be in and one I never thought I'd find myself in.
On top of all of this, there was a situation years ago where a well-known elder was involved in some serious wrongdoing and in the end, he didn't get disfellowshipped. I then realized it really was the good ol' boys club and people get df'd all the time for far less. The emotional ups and downs and inner turmoil that I perpetually experienced finally drove me to fade in order to protect myself and my mental sanity. Let's just say that when I don't go to the meetings, I don't have to be under the supervision of a medial doctor.
I'm curious if any of you on the board have experienced similar situations as mine and how did you deal with it? When I lay down the basic beliefs that I have proven to myself are true, it still comes back to the only religion that fits most of what I believe are the Witnesses. Is there any way possible to worship without selling out and attending a church that doesn't believe the same as me (again - what's the point?) or is there any way to worship as a Witness without having to be around the people? I guess it gets into defining what worship is and being able to scripturally prove that worship is legitimate without the hierarchy, people, and building involved. Matthew 18:19, 20 comes to mind.
Thanks for reading my post and I hope you had a great Memorial Day however you spent it.
silent
 +4 / -0
FayeDunaway
FayeDunaway 5 hours ago
Silent, re-examine those doctrines. Look at outside info. By their fruits you will know them...and they have shown that they are not true disciples. Start over. Pray for direction.
 +1 / -0
Alive!
Alive! 4 hours ago

I do understand what you mean regarding that PTSD. For a long time, the meetings were making me ill.
I'd vomit before going....I was so stressed..the stress grew as my husband and I felt the cold distance of being 'socially shunned" - we were not under reproof and certainly not disfellowshipped - we'd been irregular for nearly a year as we sorted out some deeply private and difficult problems....when we went back we needed love, support and good cheer as we were thriving and earnest to just "get on" and do our best, be part of the congregation.
I remember crying on the way home so often - I felt so lonely - and once upon a time, we'd been in such a different situation - guess we dropped the ball meeting wise and we were left on the outside.
The elders knew what we'd been through - and you'd think they would want to be the family nest we needed so badly - as we had no family who were witnesses and who lived locally.
We didn't go to the memorial this year or last year - although we had a couple of texts reminding us in a kind way.
These days, the date isn't really a biggie for me - I can ponder on the meaning anytime, any day.
Take care.
 +3 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 4 hours ago

First time to miss it. That was really, really a big deal for us. We plan to just tell anyone who asks about it that we went to the "other" one.
We stayed in and enjoyed our own little celebration with (ciabatta) bread & (Cabernet) wine. First time we were able to "partake".

Doc

 +2 / -0
LostGeneration
LostGeneration 4 hours ago

Which beliefs are you clinging to that you feel the witnesses have some sort of monopoly on? There are quite a few religions out there, a buffet so to speak. You probably can find one that fits your system with a few hours of online research.
Or why not just live your religion privately? Give of yourself where you can and to causes you support. You don't need some heirarchy to tell you do this or do that. Its a pretty damn good feeling to just do good things on your own because YOU want to do it.
 +2 / -0
smiddy
smiddy an hour ago

Silent
You have been on this board for seven years and you still feel this way ?
I`m sorry something just does not add up .
Maybe you are one of those people who have left the religion , but the religion has never left you .
You are swayed by emotions and feelings and not by facts , you need to exercise your brain to sift through the facts of J.W.teachings since their beginnings , otherwise I think you are mentally lazy , and will drift like a cork on the seas , swaying this way and that according to the waves.
Seriously , I don`t mean to be offensive , but you need to do some serious research.
smiddy
 +2 / -0
Tornintwo
Tornintwo 43 minutes ago

Hey silent. You are in the limbo stage of half in half out, I was only there for about 6 months and I felt like I was having a breakdown. Once youve made the decision to walk away and make a clean break, you will start to heal, for your own mental state you have to do that.
in terms of your faith, read In Search of Christian Freeedom by Ray Franz, he negates the need of an organisation and together with Crisis of Conscience, reveals the false practices and doctrines of the org. If you do feel you need a church, find a tolerant, non offensive one. We know now the witnesses have got a great deal wrong in terms of their hierarchy, judgementalism, lack of love, judicial process, shunning, blood, birthdays, worship of the governing body etc...... . So why is it such a big deal to attend somewhere that might have some other doctrines wrong. Let's face it the chances are they're all a bit wrong, if there is God, then he hasn't made it very clear.
 

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Evolution vs Creationism.
by Labate 12 minutes ago 1 Replies latest 2 minutes ago   jw friends
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Labate
Labate 12 minutes ago

Perhaps this has been discussed in the past, but I can't help noticing that on many posts creation vs evolution seems to equal theist vs atheist. Granted, a creationist by defination would have to believe in a creator. On the other hand, believing in evolution doesn't automatically make one an atheist, A small point perhaps, but I think it would be more accurate to say believer vs nonbeliever.
Just sayin'.
 
Landy
Landy 2 minutes ago

If you believe in evolution then, while a deist type god is not out of the question, it pretty much negates the adam and eve story, original sin, the reason jesus came to the earth etc. It negates everything a christian believes in really.
 +1 / -0

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2011 Drama Clip - "We are not a cult"!
by ILoveTTATT2 4 hours ago 0 Replies latest 4 hours ago   jw friends
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ILoveTTATT2
ILoveTTATT2 4 hours ago


&feature=youtu.be
It is interesting to me to see how even back in 2011 the Witnesses knew about the "mind control" and "cult" concepts. It is very likely that relatives or loved ones of JW's stumble upon Hassan and read "mind control" and go and warn their loved ones. It's a trap!
 

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Those of us going to memorial
by All for show 11 hours ago 7 Replies latest 9 hours ago   jw friends
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All for show
All for show 11 hours ago

How are you feeling?
We weren't going... but a confrontation with family blew things up. We decided we are going- because we are planning on moving and this is the last JW thing. I am SICK, sick, sick over setting foot in the KH and seeing all those people. Not all are bad, but we haven't been in over a year, so they are bound to be curious and want info just to gossip later.
Husband and I are figuring out our approach. Get in right before it starts, act happy and wonderful, leave ASAP. Act like all is fine and reveal nothing. Except-- hubs is a nice guy and can easily get caught in conversation, so I am trying to prep him to not get cornered.
 +1 / -0
baker
baker 11 hours ago
don't wear a tie, so as to give off a small que.
 
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 10 hours ago

Yeah come dressed very casual, that's one sure fire way to keep most JWS at a distance.
You evil disrespectful causal dressers.
 
Hadriel
Hadriel 10 hours ago
I'm thinking of rolling in with sandals and shorts, then partaking. Think anyone will get the point lol.
 +1 / -0
freemindfade
freemindfade 10 hours ago
To me its no biggie. I go to keep the wife company. When ever I do end up at a meeting no matter how bad it is it just shows me how far I've come. It gives hood perspective.
 +1 / -0
Khaleesi
Khaleesi 10 hours ago
I've been debating too if I should go, i am not attending my own congregations memorial, too far & too late, my son has school the next day.... but I do want to partake since it's a different congregation they don't know me they would just think I'm wordly, heck I'll let my son partake too
 +1 / -0
stan livedeath
stan livedeath 10 hours ago
back in the day--for several years after i had resigned from the cult--my wife used to persuade me to attend meetings. but i insisted on payment before i went.
 +3 / -0
Spiral
Spiral 9 hours ago
Ugh, have to go, not looking forward to it. It's the late one so hopefully I can leave right after!
 

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Labate
Evolution vs Creationism.
by Labate in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 17 minutes ago
perhaps this has been discussed in the past, but i can't help noticing that on many posts creation vs evolution seems to equal theist vs atheist.

granted, a creationist by defination would have to believe in a creator.

on the other hand, believing in evolution doesn't automatically make one an atheist, a small point perhaps, but i think it would be more accurate to say believer vs nonbeliever.. just sayin'..

ILoveTTATT2
2011 Drama Clip - "We are not a cult"!
by ILoveTTATT2 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 5 hours ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywtgbd1db9y&feature=youtu.be.

it is interesting to me to see how even back in 2011 the witnesses knew about the "mind control" and "cult" concepts.

it is very likely that relatives or loved ones of jw's stumble upon hassan and read "mind control" and go and warn their loved ones.

silent
6
Didn't go to memorial this year
by silent in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 5 hours ago
my wife and i had business to attend to out of town today and i had thought if we made it back home in time, we'd go to the memorial.

as it turned out, we didn't get home in time and we missed it, but we had a real good talk with each other on the way home.

we are largely successful faders and at the very least, i like to try and make the memorial.

LostGeneration
smiddy
Tornintwo
an hour ago
rebelfighter
10
Go my invite / think I am now a Do Not Call
by rebelfighter  in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 10 hours ago
my son says hey mom that's your doorbell.

so answer it.

next i get, mom it is the jehovah witnesses.

Pete Zahut
zeb
rebelfighter
5 hours ago
Ding
17
Did You Get Invited to the Memorial?
by Ding in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 11 hours ago
i'm just wondering if jws keep inviting you back or if they've given up on you.. they haven't invited me for years..

James Mixon
compound complex
Xanthippe
22 minutes ago
new boy
3
Calling on all EX Bethelites From The 1960s, 1970s and 1980s
by new boy in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 11 hours ago
many have commented here about my bethel experiences.

even though it's been over 40 years since i was there, many have found the stories to be interesting and amusing.

some have even mentioned writing a book about them.

Freeandclear
talesin
new boy
2 hours ago
All for show
7
Those of us going to memorial
by All for show in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 11 hours ago
how are you feeling?.

we weren't going... but a confrontation with family blew things up.

we decided we are going- because we are planning on moving and this is the last jw thing.

Khaleesi
stan livedeath
Spiral
9 hours ago
SonoftheTrinity
14
Wearing a Guy Fawkes mask outside a JW Convention.
by SonoftheTrinity in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 11 hours ago
i don't want my wife recognizing me, but i feel like making an anti-jw scene.

talesin
steve2
jhine
21 minutes ago
undercover
1
The Kindness of an Atheist
by undercover in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 12 hours ago
a song lyric i heard the other day, paraphrased:.

nothing is as good as the kindness from an atheistan act of selflessness that never has to be repaid.

interesting thought.

Island Man
12 hours ago
Terry
21
Whatever happened to "YOU'RE WELCOME"? Has "NO PROBLEM" replaced it?
by Terry in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 12 hours ago
wherever i go, i say "thank you" to clerks, servers, delivery people, hosts and hostesses and the response has become invariable: "no problem!".

have i aged to the point i'm now an old fuddy duddy who doesn't "get it"?.

is it counted mannerly to avoid, "you're welcome" in favor of "no problem"?.

Lieu
berrygerry
truthlover
5 hours ago
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My mother has nervous breakdown because we missed the memorial.
by cookiemaster 14 hours ago 9 Replies latest 12 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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cookiemaster
cookiemaster 14 hours ago
My parents insisted that I'd take them to the memorial. My cousin said he'd come too and another brother who doesn't have a car begged to join. I was dreading having to go through exactly the same thing again. Every memorial talk is exactly the same and manages to be even more boring than regular talks. I've even downloaded on my tablet some books to read while attending to alleviate the boredom.
Funny thing is, a huge blizzard started just two hours before the memorial. The road to the KH is on a steep mountain with extremely curvy roads. And I've only had snow tires on the front of my car and without snow tires on all the wheels I would've risked a huge fine from the police. So, I made it clear that we can't take my car. I'm pretty happy about not having to go. Only a bit embarrassed that the brother that relied on me was left without transportation.
My mother on the other hand cried hysterically and almost had a nervous breakdown. It's kinda funny in a sad way. She was almost killed by the JW blood ban. Disfellowshipped for taking blood. Every JW treats her like dirt. Yet, she's still extremely brainwashed by them, despite my best efforts to show her TTAT. Sad.
 +6 / -0
steve2
steve2 14 hours ago

JW mothers show how much they really care by having nervous breakdowns when things don't go their way.
 +9 / -0
ToesUp
ToesUp 14 hours ago
Cookiemaster - Too bad Jehovah did not stop the blizzard from coming in the first place! Shows how much he thinks of his son's sacrifice!
 +7 / -0
OnTheWayOut
OnTheWayOut 14 hours ago
Sorry to read of your mother's problem. Thanks for sharing otherwise. I wonder why Johoba didn't make sure y'all could get there, you know- like sending someone who cares with 4-wheel-drive.
 +6 / -0
TakeOffTheCrown
TakeOffTheCrown 14 hours ago

Cookiemaster,
Are you saying that your parents and the brother you were suppose to provide transportation for all missed the Memorial? They had no other way to get there?
Did they cancel the meeting because of the blizzard?
 +2 / -0
steve2
steve2 14 hours ago

 Are you saying that your parents and the brother you were suppose to provide transportation for all missed the Memorial? They had no other way to get there?
I hope that's what he is saying!
 +4 / -0
pixel
pixel 14 hours ago
Crazy. Only in WT land.

 +1 / -0
Joliette
Joliette 14 hours ago
She was crying? Really? OMG.

 +1 / -0
cookiemaster
cookiemaster 13 hours ago
TakeOffTheCrown - English is my second language, so probably I wasn't too clear. Yes, I was the one supposed to provide transportation for them. This is a rather remote mountain area with few people. There's no public transport. I'm the only one among them with a car because all of them wasted their time pioneering instead of working. The only way to the KH is through a 20 mile winding mountain pass that is very dangerous during blizzards.
Everyone else - Thank you for the encouragement! She wasn't only crying. She started screaming insanely. Her blood pressure went up. Tried to calm her down but she was getting even more hysterical. Gave her a Xanax and some blood pressure medication. It was like a crazy, full-on mental breakdown. She's more calm now but still acts like she just attended a funeral. This brainwashing stuff leads to crazy things, I'll tell ya!
And yes, extremely funny how there wasn't a single day with snow in the past month but today. It literally hasn't snowed for months except today when we're having a huge blizzard like the Snowmagheddon is coming. I hope at least some JWs will see the irony in that. Is this Jah showing his disappointment? Where's his blessing? Surely many in the congregation had to miss the memorial this year because of the blizzard. Or is this Satan messing with the weather? I'm sure they'll find some excuse...
 +9 / -0
Diogenesister
Diogenesister 12 hours ago
Tell her she can commemorate on her own or with you guys...the building is not important. Tell her does she really think ceremonially rejecting the wine and bread is a good thing anyway...Xanax..isn't that Valium? Mothers little helper?!!
 

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Stupid memorial obsessions
by Simon 3 hours ago 10 Replies latest 10 minutes ago   watchtower beliefs
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Simon
Simon 3 hours ago

All the different congregations around the world hold it at similar local times but they all effectively are at different times relative to each other ... so why does the time matter?
Why the almost superstitious "oh, it must be after sundown". Cause it's not sundown everywhere that second.
God knew the earth was round ... right?
Why will one place be nearly 24 hours later instead of saying "this is the closest time"?
So why not during the day? I mean it's 2,000 years later, does it really matter that much?
Why not figure out when it's sundown in Jerusalem and do it relative to that? Yes, some poor bastards would be getting up at 2:00 am to celebrate it but who's to say that isn't what he meant and wanted?
And why unleavened bread? And unfortified wine? Does it also matter what the plate and cup are made of? If not, why not?
It's like half of a perfect re-enactment but then meh, good enough.
If I had gone to the memorial then I would have missed the girl scouts calling round selling those delicious chocolate mint cookies. Just the thought of potentially missing out on those makes me want to curse Jesus. His cookies are just crap by comparison.
The wine was a nice idea, I can get on board with that, but the bread needs to be re-thought IMO.
Happy death day Jesus!
 +3 / -0
ILoveTTATT2
ILoveTTATT2 3 hours ago
How about in places in really high latitudes where the sun does not set? When do they do the memorial?
 +2 / -0
smiddy
smiddy 3 hours ago

HaHaHa ,I had a good chuckle with those two posts .Why didn`t I think of that all those years ago.
smiddy
 
prologos
prologos 2 hours ago
And why the reversal? in the last supper the anointed abstained and the earthly class ate and drank, now it is the other way around? the anointed drink, nibble, and the OS abstain?
 
HowTheBibleWasCreated
HowTheBibleWasCreated 2 hours ago
I Love TATT: Those places above the arctic circle in March/April have a sundown... In June they don't
 +1 / -0
Listener
Listener an hour ago
They have always been pedantic about getting the bread made properly but I just can't imagine that they had refined white flour in Jesus' day.
 
2+2=5
2+2=5 29 minutes ago

Happy death day Jesus. I like it. Straight to the point, no confusion and very positve. What could anyone possibly have against happiness? Nothing. And the Jew died, that's the whole point of the entire Jesus thing. He was murdered for us, by our Heavenly Father.
That sounds weird I know, but he's alright, he promised eternal life for us. Unless you don't like Jesus, then you are pretty screwed. But what's not to like, right? His party tricks are undeniable, plus he said some great shit.
Happy Death Day Jesus! Happy Death Day everyone!
 
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 29 minutes ago

If it's soooo sacred, why didn't Jeehoober stop the blizzards that cancelled the meh-mori-hell for many congregations this year? It's kind of difficult to not forsake gatherings and to "keep doing this..." if your meetings are cancelled. If this could be the last meh-mori-hell ever, you would think God could control the weather for a bit. Hmmmm.....???
DD
 
Wild_Thing
Wild_Thing 26 minutes ago

I assume your questions are rhetorical, right?
And I agree on them rethinking the bread. They need to try some sour dough bread, or maybe some nice bruschetta that we can put some cheese on.
 
ILoveTTATT2
ILoveTTATT2 15 minutes ago

I Love TATT: Those places above the arctic circle in March/April have a sundown... In June they don't
Actually, there are some places in the world where there is no sunset at the times of the memorial. At the North Pole, for example, passover according to the JW rules would never happen because there is no sunset after March 18 or so. In between the North Pole and the Artic Circle, there is no sunset after April 18, so on various years there cannot be a memorial according to JW rules. I remember that in Edmonton the memorial was very late, like 8 PM or so, because already in March, the sun was setting at that time. Where I was born (near the tropics), it was always at around 6PM sharp.
 

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Stupid memorial obsessions
by Simon 3 hours ago 11 Replies latest a minute ago   watchtower beliefs
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sir82
sir82 11 minutes ago

For me the silliest obsession/ritual is that everyone must be "served".
This leads to a complicated up-down-up-down-up-down as the servers, the guys who wander the aisles with the emblems, all sit down and someone has to "serve" them. They've touched the F@#$#$%$ plates and cups 40 or 50 times, but it doesn't count" unless they are seated and someone hands it to them. Then the guys who served the servers have to sit and some other servers, who have just been served, serve them.

Then the speaker has to get off the stage, sit down, someone hands him a plate/cup, and he bounces right back up again to the platform.
And all of this in complete silence.
Any visitor nitwitted enough to accept one of the invitations and attend would surely think "what a bunch of loons".

 +1 / -0
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG a minute ago

LOL! Sir82, that's just how Jesus did it!!
DD
 

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Topic Summary
all the different congregations around the world hold it at similar local times but they all effectively are at different times relative to each other ... so why does the time matter?.
why the almost superstitious "oh, it must be after sundown".
cause it's not sundown everywhere that second.. god knew the earth was round ... right?.



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/ How many fence sitters are really out there?
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How many fence sitters are really out there?
by atomant 2 hours ago 0 Replies latest 2 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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atomant
atomant 2 hours ago
l think the real figure would be a real nail in the coffin for jw believers.lf the elders knew what l knew they would have a field day.Many many jdubs live a double life.Lovey dovey at the hall and totally different people at home and work.My guess is many dubs  are Schizophrenic and in need of help.With all the brain washing lm not surprised.What have others observed.?  
 

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The memorial songs sucked.
by DATA-DOG 14 minutes ago 0 Replies latest 14 minutes ago   watchtower beliefs
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DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 14 minutes ago

I don't know who the idiots are that write, or approve these songs, ( The creative team of Lett and Tomo??) but THEY SUCK!!
There is a line in the first song ( # 147 ) that blatantly contradicts the WTBTS dogma of the heavenly calling being an invitation as opposed to a sure thing. According to the latest Partaker bashing WT, just because your "anointed" doesn't mean you've made it. You have to make your calling sure by working for MOTHER.
I suppose the GB found a legal loophole in Jehibbity-hop's law, because according to the meh-mori-hell songs they have already passed. This makes sense because they are the FDS and can't ever be the Evil Slave. That's really convenient for them.



🎵"God has a new creation, His spirit-anointed sons.
He has bought them from mankind; His approval they’ve won." 🎵

DD 😑
 

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The JW org is a failed doomsday cult?
by Half banana 16 hours ago 8 Replies latest an hour ago   watchtower beliefs
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Half banana
Half banana 16 hours ago

By its own mandate in the founding of the Watchtower magazine in 1879, it was set up to proclaim the arrival of JC in the heavens according to the then currently failed Adventist claim for Jesus' return the year 1874.
 Russell's catalyst for all that came afterwards was his pet claim (in so many words) "aha but JC did in fact come... but came invisibly!" He added without sound evidence that it took four years for JC to come to rule from the heavens after his arrival there and that then was said to be in 1878.
Within forty Biblical years from the arrival date, Russell promised, with hopes even higher than his bank account, that God’s kingdom with Christ at the helm would rule the Earth in the absence of all worldly opposition. Opposers would all be dead and destroyed by 1914, which would be the grand visible effect of the heavenly kingdom. Religious words and hope are proved to be cheap and cheerful... but worthless.
The abject failure of this wild speculation did not stop the rot. The entrepreneur and showman Russell was personally distressed at first by his error but the WTBTS as we are all too well aware, kept postponing the crazy beliefs and pressing them before the hopeful readers. "It’s coming very soon!” was the doomdsay merchants street cry. But the business department noted that this baby was making a mint of Dollars so why stop while there are suckers who want it?
I suggest that there is no evidence whatsoever that God’s spirit (a bizarre and unprovable concept in itself) could be upon the Watchtower organisation.
 If the Watchtower is God’s mouthpiece and the "end time" its key doctrine; how could Holy Spirit repeatedly get the dates and the events always wrong, resulting in total failure during the whole 136 years of its 'divine' prophesying?
What conclusions can we draw?
 +1 / -0
sir82
sir82 16 hours ago

"Failed" in what sense?
In the sense that none, zero, zilch, of their predictions have come true? Agreed.
But given that they have morphed into a very powerful real estate development corporation, while paying $000 in taxes, well, that part is a rousing success.

 +2 / -0
pixel
pixel 16 hours ago
Yes. Next?

 +1 / -0
pepperheart
pepperheart 6 hours ago
Yes it is its just a question of time till the money runs out from selling the bethels in new york and london off

 +1 / -0
TTWSYF
TTWSYF 5 hours ago

If the Watchtower is God’s mouthpiece and the "end time" its key doctrine; how could Holy Spirit repeatedly get the dates and the events always wrong, resulting in total failure during the whole 136 years of its 'divine' prophesying?
What conclusions can we draw?
That we shouldn't take stock market tips from the WTS
 +1 / -0
talesin
talesin 5 hours ago

DOOMSDAY CULT



...AND
DEATH CULT



 +1 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 4 hours ago

What conclusions can we draw?
Just speculating here, but perhaps we might conclude that "it's a cult"!
Doc

 +1 / -0
smiddy
smiddy 2 hours ago

I often wonder how many of those parents of "Youths Who Put God First" woke up to the fact that these poor misguided people , children and parents , actually didn`t put GOD first , they put the Organization of Jehovah`s Witnesses first and died needlessly .
And if that is not the ultimate abuse of children , then I don`t know what is.
That fact alone should prove JW.ORG. is a failed doomsday cult.
What is it about Governments that they are so scared/ reluctant to bring the crimes of religious organizations to justice.
Any surviving parents of these or any other children who died in similar circumstances should band together and take out a class action writ against the Jehovah`s Witnesses /WTB&TS and claim damages .
smiddy
 +1 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW an hour ago


The JW org is a failed doomsday cult?
Failed Doomsday Cult?.....Not Likely..
WatchTower has been in Business for over 130 Years and Still Going Strong..
.

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2016 Memorial Done & Dusted
by steve2 a day ago 37 Replies latest 2 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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steve2
steve2 a day ago

Well on this side of the planet, the Southern Hemisphere/ New Zealand, the 2016 Memorial service in local kingdom halls will be over for another year. Another great big anticlimax.
Some family and relatives will have gone - but unless I ask my sister, I generally have no idea about attendance and partaker numbers.
If any on this forum have attended - or plan to do so in other parts of the world - could you briefly tell us how attendances and partakers compared with last year.
Many thanks, Steve.
 +7 / -0
bohm
bohm a day ago
The first memorial where I did not get an invitation.
 +11 / -0
Anders Andersen
Anders Andersen a day ago
The first memorial I did get an invitation :grinning:
 +3 / -0
Bonsai
Bonsai 21 hours ago
Last year i did the memorial at my house with my family. This year I can't even be bothered to do that. I wash my hands of all deaths and blood spilled in the name of religion.

 +11 / -0
Amelia Ashton
Amelia Ashton 21 hours ago
I missed it. I am normally aware of when it is but this year I was oblivious even though I use the memorial as the anniversary of being "clean" as it was the last meeting I ever went to. :smile:
 +5 / -0
disillusioned 2
disillusioned 2 21 hours ago

Well I will not be going so unable to be of any help. I hate the lead up to this every year, I get bombarded by my husband. He has left leaflets lying around which went in re-cycling immediately. And just put a lot of pressure on me to go. He said half an hour ago on his way out to invite strangers to it. Did your mum invite you to memorial? I said no. Can I invite you then? You already did, I said. Can I invite you again? You can, but the answer is no I'm not going! Big sigh from him! Well as you say, it will soon be all over for another year.
 +11 / -0
punkofnice
punkofnice 21 hours ago
My first year of no invite. I won't be going but if I get any feedback from my spies I will let you know.
 +4 / -0
ToesUp
ToesUp 21 hours ago
We received no invite this year. We're heart broken. My spouse is not attending for the 1st year. Decided not to add to their #'s.
 +4 / -0
wannaexit
wannaexit 21 hours ago
I will be going tonight and report back. The congregation places 14,000 memorial tracts. I wonder how many will come?

 +4 / -0
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 20 hours ago

This a special year for me as regards the memorial. Two or three years ago, I baked my own unleavened bread and bought some Kosher wine. I celebrated on my own as a secret partaker. I told some persons, including my wife, and it sent my life into the rabbit hole.
This year I did not even realize that it is happening tonight in my part of the world! I didn't put out one invitation, or go in field circus. I was thinking the memorial was next month or something. I also didn't worry about "coming out."
Realizing that I completely forgot about the JW meh-mori-hell is awesome! You cannot buy that kind of mental and emotional freedom.
DD
 +10 / -0

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2016 Memorial Done & Dusted
by steve2 a day ago 37 Replies latest 2 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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compound complex
compound complex 19 hours ago

Hi Steve:
Your OP reminds me that I have been some 18 hours behind rather than ahead on the clock of my addlebrain. It's been about 18 years since I was in Auckland, and I had forgotten that you folks are about three-quarters of a day AHEAD of us in California.
I have vacillated over what I should do re tonight. This is a time fraught with emotion for me. When I gave the Memorial talk some 35 years ago, all my family was present; Mum partook and, henceforth, never stopped. I awoke this morning, at 4:30, with firm resolve. With no further waffling on the significance of my personal point of view, I wrote a piece appropriate to the occasion on social media.
More later . . .
CoCo
 +9 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 19 hours ago
Considering that Nisan 14 is not for another 4 weeks or so...
 +3 / -0
stephanie61092
stephanie61092 18 hours ago
Unfortunately I'll be attending tonight in the USA. I'll come back and report attendance numbers and partakers.
 +6 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 17 hours ago

Will be attending this evening.
"Blah, blah, blah, same every year crap", then, nice meal and drinks with lovely people at some restaurant close by. It will be a nice evening.
DY
 +4 / -0
steve2
steve2 17 hours ago
Thanks everyone. CoCo, I didnt realize NZ is so far ahead in tne time zone -18 hours - compared to the States (which has its own time zones due to its vast size).
 +3 / -0
Stirred
Stirred 16 hours ago

First year not receiving invite. No calls or emails either. Saw the sisters pass my house. They know I'm in town and have known them for years. Too busy to call no doubt and that is okay.
Will be making my annual lamb dinner only a bit more casually this year. (Kids look forward to it as my big dinner). Will make flat bread for all to eat. Will discuss scriptures, calendars, Jesus' message and intent.
Will discuss the fact that passover is next month and whether it matters....leap year and all. What would Jesus do? Maybe we will celebrate both? Perhaps also review Purim on the calendar.
First year entire family and extended family not attending. Some will do something privately. We do not want to be a statistic considering how we have been considered unworthy, weak, bad association by so many. I dont fit in and now I'm fine with it.
They are not my eternal judge.
 +6 / -0
konceptual99
konceptual99 15 hours ago

Still having to attend tonight but have not participated at all in the lead up. No ministry. No chucking out invitations. No bible reading. No hyping it up with the family.
I keep hearing the stupid line about this year possibly being the last year JWs will attend the memorial. I really hope it's my last year.
 +5 / -0
biblexaminer
biblexaminer 14 hours ago

I was just over to the hall setting up. All things set up. The front row is reserved for the dog and pony show.
Tonight is the memorial.
 Now, in past memorials, as a server, we were required to serve the hall, after which, we had to scurry to the front of the hall and seat ourselves in the first row. Now came the dog and pony show.
 With all the server-bros sitting down, the brother at one end (me) would get up, serve the plate/cup to the row of servers starting from the other end of the row.
 He (me) would then scurry back to the end of the row where he (me) was sitting to receive the plate/cup he (me) just served. The first brother-server who was just given the plate/cup first by me, quickly rose and was standing by my side to take it back.
Thus sayeth the gb.
 I suppose the dog and pony will show up tonight likewise.
 If you cannot step back and see this sanctimonious pomp for what it is, then God help you.
 This is NOT what Jesus had in mind.
 +10 / -0
steve2
steve2 14 hours ago

If Scripture is viewed by the JWs as "inspired of God" and Christ said, "Keep doing this [taking the bread and wine] in remembrance of me", but the bulk of invitees are told the emblems are not for them, why bother attending? Where in the "inspired" words of Christ does he mention truckloads of "Observers only"?
So much for "only" following Scripture. What hogwash!
Who ever recevies an invitation to a meal and is expected to watch while the diners eat and drink?
This is more than weird - it is woefully redundant.
Please do not invite me to a meal and then tell me to sit back and watch others dine!
 +8 / -0
Anders Andersen
Anders Andersen 14 hours ago

By accident I had left-over spaghetti and meatballs for dinner.
Drank some red wine with it.
Merry Christmas everyone :grinning:
 +5 / -0

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Topic Summary
well on this side of the planet, the southern hemisphere/ new zealand, the 2016 memorial service in local kingdom halls will be over for another year.
another great big anticlimax.
some family and relatives will have gone - but unless i ask my sister, i generally have no idea about attendance and partaker numbers.



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2016 Memorial Done & Dusted
by steve2 a day ago 37 Replies latest 2 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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freddo
freddo 9 hours ago

Yep. That little dance where the servers (who have had the chance to quaff the cup and crunch the biscuit at the end of each row they pass "emblems to") serve each other.
And then the speaker who has handed the cups to all the servers and has them all handed back to him to put on the table then has his own little to and fro cup and plate handling opportunity from a server all by himself before putting them finally on the table.
Anyway, good news - our hall was down from 118 to 112 this year. A small decrease but a decrease nevertheless.
 +8 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 8 hours ago

Well said bibleexaminer and freddo!
The ritualistic manner of 'serving the servers' always bugged me!
They had the items "served" to them every time the end of the row passed it to them already! So they get to "pass" it over a dozen times each.....why then pass it again in front of everyone at the front row??
Because it is all for show and appearances
 +4 / -0
Juan Viejo2
Juan Viejo2 7 hours ago

Me too. No invite. The week before the Memorial and when the District Convention was being held in the State Fairgrounds were the only two times a year that I would see JWs in my neighborhood. Sometimes they would pass my house because I have a well-earned reputation as an ApossTate - but I'd still occasionally get a flyer or invite stuck in the flower pot on my front porch.
Passing by the Kingdom Hall that services my area indicates that attendance is way down. Parking lot used to be full on Saturday nights and all day Sunday - but now even in the late afternoon there are only about 20 cars parked in the lot.
I think we may be seeing the beginning of the end. If they ever go to live streaming of meetings to home TVs, hardly anyone will show up. My guess is that Memorial attendance will be falling off a little each year.
JV
 +3 / -0
stillin
stillin 7 hours ago
"Anticlimax" is the word, Steve. After a droning, insipid talk that lasted too long, the snacks were passed out but nobody wanted any and a song that wasn't really a song, just a bunch of notes was attempted by the congregation.
 +2 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 7 hours ago
I wish someone would just get up a yell "since anyone who partakes is considered metally diseased no one's going to partake so as to be labeled so why waste time passing around the bread and wine?"
 +3 / -0
Diogenesister
Diogenesister 7 hours ago
Biblexaminer you had me in fits...dog and pony show!!!LOL!!
 
Magwitch
Magwitch 6 hours ago
Big blizzard in Colorado. Most Memorials were cancelled.....all of them in my town and most in Denver.
 +4 / -0
problemaddict 2
problemaddict 2 6 hours ago

Here in Cali its kicking off. the wife is headed out....guilted by family. She will be late, the kids will be a tear, and it will suck.
I will be here defiantly eating a taco.

 +2 / -0
wannaexit
wannaexit 6 hours ago

Just got back for the worst memorial in my whole 45 years of going to them. I felt so bad for the people who had to listen to the speaker who was literally yelling. It was the worst talk ever. There was a token mention to the ransom and the rest was all about who should drink the wine and eat the crackers.
There were few people to show for the 14,000 tracts that were placed. Most the the people that attended were the usual yearly attenders. The same ones that have been coming for the last decade.
Pretty pathetic event.

 +3 / -0
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 6 hours ago

I just got back. Boring as hell, of course. The speaker droned on about the great WT article that we just had about who should partake, we don't judge, but.... LOL!!!
We had one Sister who partook of the emblems. She was being made fun of by multiple persons after the meh-mori-hell. 😑
We are all sinners, blah, blah.... Jeehoober had a master plan so Jesus had to die, blahbitty blah. This could be the last meh-mori-hell ever..... You get the idea. Same shit, different year...
DD
 +2 / -0

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Topic Summary
well on this side of the planet, the southern hemisphere/ new zealand, the 2016 memorial service in local kingdom halls will be over for another year.
another great big anticlimax.
some family and relatives will have gone - but unless i ask my sister, i generally have no idea about attendance and partaker numbers.



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In regards to memorial, what I am going to do
by Truth and Justice a day ago



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2016 Memorial Done & Dusted
by steve2 a day ago 37 Replies latest 2 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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TheListener
TheListener 6 hours ago

Ugh boring. Waaaaay too much time in the talk about who shouldn't partake. And you much time on how we can earn salvation.
Always the funny ritual when the passers of the bread and wine sit down and get served themselves. It's so ridiculous.
 
dropoffyourkeylee
dropoffyourkeylee 6 hours ago
Attendance seemed low here (Midwest US). There were some empty seats here and there, which is not usual.
 +2 / -0
pepperheart
pepperheart 6 hours ago
ah but freedo if every hall is minus six then it all mounts up or even if every hall is just minus one

 +2 / -0
greenhornet
greenhornet 6 hours ago
When I get that memorial invitation in the door, it sends chills up my spine. The way I was treated with hurtful gossip. Now I just spit on it and throw it away. That has been 24 years now since i gone.
 +2 / -0
pepperheart
pepperheart 6 hours ago

good for you green hornet
 +1 / -0
All for show
All for show 4 hours ago

Memorial attendance was down huge, between 43-50 was the final I heard from dad. Lots of beards. Everyone looked beat down, over weight. It's sad.
So glad I'm never going again. I'm done. The talk was all about not partaking and how this isn't just a once a year thing to gain the gift. Blah blah...spent time outside letting kids play, say a one year old getting spanked. Made me sick. I went over and told the dad, I regret spanking my littles over a meeting. They're just kids let them be.
 +2 / -0
Khaleesi
Khaleesi 4 hours ago

I attended in California UsA, didn't see any partakers. One thing I did notice though about the attendance, i go to the spanish congregation, I came in right at the song & they had plenty of chairs where I sat 3 rows from the front at the KH.... attendance is not what it used to be in the spanish....they did not read the scripture of partaking unworthingly of the bread & wine!, I thought it was odd...
They did say faith needs works, going to meetings, being with God's people, aka Jws, will earn ur way to posible salvation... Also during the 1st prayer they said "Jehovah God" 11 times!!
 +1 / -0
prologos
prologos 2 hours ago
Surprised that this year's memorial talk outline did not mention the New Covenant, given that the "cup" of wine is supposed to picture just that. Surprising too, that the kingdom covenant is alleged to be part of the last supper celebration, when in fact it crept up at least a year earlier in the text. (Math 19:28). The Luke reference places the kingdom covenant proposal well after the conclusion of the last supper. so, if you hoped for a broader understanding of the celebration, partaking, not yet, wt is tightening down, giving importance to the few at the top. wt is skewing the explicit details of the texts. why?
 

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Topic Summary
well on this side of the planet, the southern hemisphere/ new zealand, the 2016 memorial service in local kingdom halls will be over for another year.
another great big anticlimax.
some family and relatives will have gone - but unless i ask my sister, i generally have no idea about attendance and partaker numbers.



Related Topics
wifibandit
Warwick Project Update Email
by wifibandit 4 months ago
nevaagain
Memorial - Most depressing holiday ever?
by nevaagain a year ago
Heaven
Shootings in multiple locations in Canada's capital today - Wed Oct 22/14
by Heaven a year ago
AndersonsInfo
Brownstoner: How the Jehovah’s Witnesses Acquired Some of Brooklyn’s Most Insanely Valuable Properties
by AndersonsInfo 2 months ago
Truth and Justice
In regards to memorial, what I am going to do
by Truth and Justice a day ago



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Evolution of theology
by elbib a day ago 3 Replies latest 17 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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elbib
elbib a day ago

When Jerusalem was captured and its temple was burned by pagan king in 586 BCE (or 607?), it was a theological crisis for the Jews. Then a concept of Messiah (King-Priest) who will restore everything was evolved. When the messiah was murdered, it was further evolved into a teaching of ransom (as a sacrifice arranged by the “loving” Heavenly Father for the atonement of sins of mankind).
 
Half banana
Half banana 21 hours ago

I agree strongly with the idea that religious belief evolves according to events. It might be true to say that all things change over time.
Some things in real life do not change or change at a rate too slow to observe such as the sequence and structure of geological formations. Gemstones must be an exception to the rule of all things changing. Contrast this with the ever changing nature of ideas and beliefs.
Most certainly Jewish defeats galvanized the desire for a heroic redeemer especially in the book Isaiah, where driven by loss and impotence, the writer imagines the arrival of a glorious all conquering saviour.
The Bible from start to finish is a reflection of the thinking and beliefs of people at all the evolving stages of their cultures and ideas over time. Starting with offering the gods blood sacrifice and developing from polytheism through henolatry (worshipping one particular god) finishing in Revelation in a riot of visionary monotheism jam packed with Greek and not so philosophical mumbo-jumbo. 

So we need to be mindful of language too and note that it also evolves, such as seen in the contempt put into the word pagan by the Roman church to distance itself from the true folk origins of Christianity. (Pagan simply meaning "of the village people" in Latin and by inference "the uneducated").
A significant mistake would be to imagine that the career of the Jews has any special meaning to it. The Bible is just their dreams writ large.
 
elbib
elbib 18 hours ago

Half banana,
Nicely expanded.
 I liked your phrase: "a riot of visionary monotheism jam packed with Greek and not so philosophical mumbo-jumbo."
 
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 17 hours ago

Theology is structured and cultivated by making appealing desirous expectations.
The Hebrews/ Israelites prophesied a to come Messiah to save their nation, god's chosen people and so what happened is that certain men started to self proclaim they were this prophesied Messiah and there is documentation that supports this occurring even before the birth or life of Jesus Christ.

For example the Jehovah Witnesses religion is evolutionary continuation of that established appealing desirous expectation in its structured theological teachings.

 

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Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
What Jehovah's Witnesses believe and why they do what they do
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DATA-DOG
The memorial songs sucked.
by DATA-DOG in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 25 minutes ago
i don't know who the idiots are that write, or approve these songs, ( the creative team of lett and tomo??

) but they suck!!

there is a line in the first song that blatantly contradicts the wtbts dogma of the heavenly calling being an invitation as opposed to a sure thing.

atomant
How many fence sitters are really out there?
by atomant in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 2 hours ago
l think the real figure would be a real nail in the coffin for jw believers.lf the elders knew what l knew they would have a field day.many many jdubs live a double life.lovey dovey at the hall and totally different people at home and work.my guess is many dubs are schizophrenic and in need of help.with all the brain washing lm not surprised.what have others observed.

?

Simon
10
Stupid memorial obsessions
by Simon in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 4 hours ago
all the different congregations around the world hold it at similar local times but they all effectively are at different times relative to each other ... so why does the time matter?.

why the almost superstitious "oh, it must be after sundown".

cause it's not sundown everywhere that second.. god knew the earth was round ... right?.

Wild_Thing
ILoveTTATT2
sir82
25 minutes ago
atomant
19
So who attended the memorial and why?
by atomant in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 10 hours ago
this should be interesting.

hillfy333
Tornintwo
ozziegal
30 minutes ago
MicaSmith
8
A Troubling Culture: JW Group Think vs. Individual Critical Thinking
by MicaSmith in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 11 hours ago
i had no idea that the resistance, governance, and duplicity i am experiencing as a jehovah witness is actually part of a bigger behavioral issue that permeates the entire jehovah witness culture.. i was troubled by the fact that many persons who have been crushed by the unfair practices of jw leadership described themselves as former members of the jw cult, and, or, apostates.

the latter bothered me to a greater degree because i felt the word apostate has been overused by jw's leadership and members.

anyone who disagrees with anything the governing body does or says is assigned the label an apostate.

stuckinarut2
talesin
MicaSmith
2 hours ago
thedepressedsoul
59
Pshycos! - 2016 "Remain Loyal to Jehovah" Regional Convention Program
by thedepressedsoul in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 14 hours ago
wow this is interesting!

i think how much emphasis this puts on "loyalty" shows their is an issue.

they're trying to plug the wholes as much and quickly as possible.

steve2
Mandrake
JHK
an hour ago
cookiemaster
9
My mother has nervous breakdown because we missed the memorial.
by cookiemaster in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 14 hours ago
my parents insisted that i'd take them to the memorial.

my cousin said he'd come too and another brother who doesn't have a car begged to join.

i was dreading having to go through exactly the same thing again.

Joliette
cookiemaster
Diogenesister
13 hours ago
Half banana
8
The JW org is a failed doomsday cult?
by Half banana in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 16 hours ago
by its own mandate in the founding of the watchtower magazine in 1879, it was set up to proclaim the arrival of jc in the heavens according to the then currently failed adventist claim for jesus' return the year 1874.. russell's catalyst for all that came afterwards was his pet claim (in so many words) "aha but jc did in fact come... but came invisibly!

" he added without sound evidence that it took four years for jc to come to rule from the heavens after his arrival there and that then was said to be in 1878. .

within forty biblical years from the arrival date, russell promised, with hopes even higher than his bank account, that god’s kingdom with christ at the helm would rule the earth in the absence of all worldly opposition.

DesirousOfChange
smiddy
OUTLAW
2 hours ago
steve2
37
2016 Memorial Done & Dusted
by steve2 in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 a day ago
well on this side of the planet, the southern hemisphere/ new zealand, the 2016 memorial service in local kingdom halls will be over for another year.

another great big anticlimax.

some family and relatives will have gone - but unless i ask my sister, i generally have no idea about attendance and partaker numbers.

All for show
Khaleesi
prologos
2 hours ago
elbib
3
Evolution of theology
by elbib in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 a day ago
when jerusalem was captured and its temple was burned by pagan king in 586 bce (or 607?

), it was a theological crisis for the jews.

then a concept of messiah (king-priest) who will restore everything was evolved.

Half banana
elbib
Finkelstein
17 hours ago
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Regional con program released jw.org shun again
by poopie 13 hours ago 7 Replies latest an hour ago   jw friends
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poopie
poopie 13 hours ago
Wow
 
nelim
nelim 13 hours ago
?
 
John Free
John Free 12 hours ago

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/
I can see what you're referring to. Conceningly the part in the 2016 program is entitled 'Shun unrepentant wrongdoers'. They have no shame.
 
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 12 hours ago

Reg Con pro rel jorg shun !!
Wow so much from so little.
 
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 4 hours ago

Let's review.............it's a cult.
Doc

 
NeverKnew
NeverKnew 3 hours ago

Good God.
It appears that this one is going to be a hatefest.
Wonder which will be worse... An African American at a Trump rally or a non-JW at this convention.
 +1 / -0
JW_Rogue
JW_Rogue 2 hours ago
That whole program is very, very crazy sounding. Do they realize how many times they are repeating the word "loyalty?"
 
sir82
sir82 an hour ago


Do they realize how many times they are repeating the word "loyalty?"
That's no accident.
"Loyalty" is the new code-word for "utter slavish devotion and mindless obedience to the whims of the organization in general, and the dictates of the GB in particular".

 

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We can now donate by credit card in canada on jw.org
by hoser a day ago 18 Replies latest 13 hours ago   jw friends
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hoser
hoser a day ago
What a fine privelege to support Jehovah with our valuable things.
 +2 / -1
talesin
talesin a day ago

Holy jumpin's! I was planning on giving my MC a workout at the mall, but this, this is like, Memorial time. Truly, we are privileged to support Jehovah's loving arrangement.
; P
 
littlerockguy
littlerockguy a day ago




 
talesin
talesin a day ago












 +3 / -0
hoser
hoser a day ago
I wonder if a person donates one cent at a time it will cost them money.
 +5 / -0
fulano
fulano a day ago
What about pay-pal? Do they accept that?
 
pepperheart
pepperheart a day ago
well somebody has to pay for the legal costs that the borg are having in the uk with the uk charity comission because the borg dont want the charity comission to have a look about their safe guarding procedurs or lack of them

 
talesin
talesin a day ago

I wonder if a person donates one cent at a time it will cost them money.
As a merchant, the credit card companies kept a percentage off the top, based on volume of sales (eg. 3% for <$25K, and 2% for >$25K but <$100K). I know religions pay business service fees for bank accounts and telephone bills, so I would think it works the same way with paying the credit card companies for their services. They are, after all, bank cards, and not government-run, interest-free handouts like zero taxes.
 +0 / -1
Simon
Simon a day ago

Most / many credit card processing is a mix of per-transaction fee plus a percentage of the transaction values (e.g. 0.20c + 2.5%).
While it makes little sense to sell below a certain value it rarely comes up online because there is postage involved for even small items and it makes no sense to sell digital goods like that (you sell points instead of micro-transactions to offset the processing costs).
A larger retailer or the WTS could just eat that though - better to have someone "willing to buy" in order to make money off them in future than put them off. The number of low value transactions is likely incredibly low and easily offset by the other money they get coming in.
 
stephanie61092
stephanie61092 20 hours ago
And I thought Jehovah said "the silver is mine and the gold is mine"? I guess the credit cards aren't and we have to hand that over ourselves 😑
 

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We can now donate by credit card in canada on jw.org
by hoser a day ago 18 Replies latest 14 hours ago   jw friends
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WTWizard
WTWizard 19 hours ago
I wonder if I can donate a negative amount. And, if the gold and silver belong to joke-hova, that is a confession that this thing wants to strip us of our wealth and put it toward mass enslavement of the whole human race. Since I did the work to earn the money to buy my silver, joke-hova cannot have any of it.

 
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 19 hours ago

And they will say that this is NOT begging or soliciting for money, but simply a response to requests by "the brothers" to make it easier to donate!!
But,seriously, by creating these means, they are GUILTING everyone into donating!
 
stan livedeath
stan livedeath 19 hours ago
jeeesus wept.
 +1 / -0
punkofnice
punkofnice 19 hours ago

***Proclaimers book (1993) jv chap. 21 p. 340 How Is It All Financed? ***As early as the second issue of the WatchTower,in August 1879, Brother Russell stated: “‘Zion’s Watch Tower’ has, we believe, JEHOVAH for its backer, and while this is the case it will never beg nor petition men for support. When He who says: ‘All the gold and silver of the mountains are mine,’ fails to provide necessary funds, we will understand it to be time to suspend the publication.”
Except Canada?


 
Half banana
Half banana 18 hours ago

Russell at least saw the possibility of ending the religion he started.
Why don't the GB take the hint that the time is now to close its doors and re-distribute its assets?
It is after all like early Christianity, a completely failed doomsday cult.
 
NCC-1701
NCC-1701 18 hours ago

At the Christian Life meeting, there was a blurb in the itinerary book for the "initial visit" to mention the "donation arrangement" (I think that was how it was worded). In the ladies role play, the "Witness" mentioned how the world wide work is funded solely by volunteer donations and informed the "householder" that she could make a donation too. The "householder" said she had no cash but was told a donation could me made through JW.org
 
Half banana
Half banana 17 hours ago
What a fine privilege it is to use our money wisely and instead of letting our families use it let us send it to the JW org to further the worldly ambitions of the governing body.
 
punkofnice
punkofnice 17 hours ago




 
Anders Andersen
Anders Andersen 14 hours ago

@talesin,
You are deliberately taking a quote out of context!
The full text clearly states that this previous position of not begging is more than a century old!
Can't apply that to 2016!
 

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what a fine privelege to support jehovah with our valuable things.



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You may find this interesting ( or not )
by jhine a day ago 1 Replies latest a day ago   jw experiences
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jhine
jhine a day ago

This is from the Premier Christian Radio website . I think that it gives an insight into how different Christendom is from the WT , this is an interdenominational site .



 Jan


 
jhine
jhine a day ago

http://www.premier.org.uk/Topics/Church/6-Reasons-Why-Domestic-Abuse-is-Ignored-in-Your-Church
hopefully this will work .
Jan
 +1 / -0

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Activism idea. Get former JWs celebrities to raise awareness
by Viva la Vida 3 days ago 5 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw friends
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Viva la Vida
Viva la Vida 3 days ago

It just occurred to me that former JWs celebrities could help in a campaign to raise awareness on some of the most controversial JW's practices (two witness rule in relation to child abuse, shunning, blood).
We would need some of them to record brief videos and share them through social media. This can be more effective than what any of us could individually do.
There is a big list of former JW's celebrities in JWFacts: http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/famous-jehovahs-witnesses.php
Do you think this is achievable?
 +2 / -0
steve2
steve2 3 days ago

Um, if I were a celebrity who was raised a JW, the last thing I'd want to do would be seen to be speaking out against the organization because I'd end up with a narrow "branding" that producers wouldn't like. Money and fame talk big time and most celebrities do their best to keep themselves squeaky clean lest controversy taint their reputation.
Besides, some of those celebrities are - how can I put this delicately? - hardly healthy role models. Swanning around with the rich and famous? Come on!
Apart form the fact that he's now dead, Michael Jackson was not exactly a positive role model with all the controversy over his "relationships" with boys.
And Prince - the last I heard he was still in the organization.
 +2 / -0
Viva la Vida
Viva la Vida 3 days ago

Some of them have briefly talked about their JW past, but there has never been a concentrated effort to engage them in a campaign. I don't care much about them being "role models" (which is also something rather subjective), but that they have big audience available to share a message.
 +1 / -0
Barrold Bonds
Barrold Bonds 3 days ago

Yeah none of them really give enough of a fuck. It's such a narrow focus when compared to ending shit like world hunger or something like that.
That list is also extremely misleading because a lot of those people were most likely never baptized and can't really be considered 'inactive'
 +2 / -0
Simon
Simon 2 days ago

Why is "what someone who's famous says" meaningful to anyone anyway?
They left. That's a message in itself - you can leave and be successful.
What would we expect them to say? "I didn't like the religion". Do famous people of upbringings in other religions feel the need to speak out about their ex-religions?
I don't see why it would come across as anything other than extremely odd - what would the context for it be?
 +4 / -1
steve2
steve2 2 days ago

Simon please stop hitting the nail on the head. Translation: Well said!
 +2 / -0

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