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Regional con program released jw.org shun again
by poopie 9 hours ago 4 Replies latest 35 minutes ago   jw friends
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poopie
poopie 9 hours ago
Wow
 
nelim
nelim 9 hours ago
?
 
John Free
John Free 8 hours ago

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/
I can see what you're referring to. Conceningly the part in the 2016 program is entitled 'Shun unrepentant wrongdoers'. They have no shame.
 
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 8 hours ago

Reg Con pro rel jorg shun !!
Wow so much from so little.
 
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 35 minutes ago

Let's review.............it's a cult.
Doc

 

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ILoveTTATT2
2011 Drama Clip - "We are not a cult"!
by ILoveTTATT2 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 an hour ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywtgbd1db9y&feature=youtu.be.

it is interesting to me to see how even back in 2011 the witnesses knew about the "mind control" and "cult" concepts.

it is very likely that relatives or loved ones of jw's stumble upon hassan and read "mind control" and go and warn their loved ones.

silent
4
Didn't go to memorial this year
by silent in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 2 hours ago
my wife and i had business to attend to out of town today and i had thought if we made it back home in time, we'd go to the memorial.

as it turned out, we didn't get home in time and we missed it, but we had a real good talk with each other on the way home.

we are largely successful faders and at the very least, i like to try and make the memorial.

Alive!
DesirousOfChange
LostGeneration
42 minutes ago
rebelfighter
10
Go my invite / think I am now a Do Not Call
by rebelfighter  in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 7 hours ago
my son says hey mom that's your doorbell.

so answer it.

next i get, mom it is the jehovah witnesses.

Pete Zahut
zeb
rebelfighter
2 hours ago
Ding
15
Did You Get Invited to the Memorial?
by Ding in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 8 hours ago
i'm just wondering if jws keep inviting you back or if they've given up on you.. they haven't invited me for years..

Ding
DesirousOfChange
James Mixon
31 minutes ago
new boy
2
Calling on all EX Bethelites From The 1960s, 1970s and 1980s
by new boy in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 8 hours ago
many have commented here about my bethel experiences.

even though it's been over 40 years since i was there, many have found the stories to be interesting and amusing.

some have even mentioned writing a book about them.

Freeandclear
talesin
4 hours ago
All for show
7
Those of us going to memorial
by All for show in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 8 hours ago
how are you feeling?.

we weren't going... but a confrontation with family blew things up.

we decided we are going- because we are planning on moving and this is the last jw thing.

Khaleesi
stan livedeath
Spiral
5 hours ago
SonoftheTrinity
13
Wearing a Guy Fawkes mask outside a JW Convention.
by SonoftheTrinity in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 8 hours ago
i don't want my wife recognizing me, but i feel like making an anti-jw scene.

steve2
talesin
steve2
2 hours ago
undercover
1
The Kindness of an Atheist
by undercover in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 8 hours ago
a song lyric i heard the other day, paraphrased:.

nothing is as good as the kindness from an atheistan act of selflessness that never has to be repaid.

interesting thought.

Island Man
8 hours ago
Terry
21
Whatever happened to "YOU'RE WELCOME"? Has "NO PROBLEM" replaced it?
by Terry in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 9 hours ago
wherever i go, i say "thank you" to clerks, servers, delivery people, hosts and hostesses and the response has become invariable: "no problem!".

have i aged to the point i'm now an old fuddy duddy who doesn't "get it"?.

is it counted mannerly to avoid, "you're welcome" in favor of "no problem"?.

Lieu
berrygerry
truthlover
an hour ago
poopie
4
Regional con program released jw.org shun again
by poopie in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 9 hours ago
wow

John Free
sparrowdown
DesirousOfChange
36 minutes ago
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Is this a site controlled by atheists?
by The Rebel 17 hours ago 23 Replies latest 3 hours ago   jw friends
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The Rebel
The Rebel 17 hours ago

Under the exterior of being an Ex- Witness site, is this site simply converting atheism?
I pose the question, because many come here in distress and insecurity with the realization that the W.T is wrong but still retain a belief in God. My personal opinion is the threads on God are not challenged by an atheists personal animosity to believers, they are challenged and become confrontational because the atheist wants an elaboration and factual proof to a believers faith.
Is this unreasonable? Well maybe some questions can only be answered after death, so whilst I enjoy a good discussion, I believe if evidence is elusive one has every right to challenge such dialogue, and to point out concrete evidence has not been presented. Of course this does not mean a person has to be influenced by such challenging questions and accept another posters point of view.
From " The Rebels" point of view, such challenging posts did force me to scrutinize my beliefs, and I realized my thinking was once again fallable, it hurt being proven I was wrong about the Witnesses and wrong about God. Was it a difficult process? Well when you come on a discussion forum and enter a debate, it doesn't give you time to slowly come to a conclusion.
Anyway this is the exsperience of a former witness who came to this site a believer, and by being here is now an athiest, its my story and my exsperience. I didn't start the O.P to cause conflict, but only to say had I found the evidence that God existed here, then I guess this would be a site for ex-witnesses to find God. In my case the evidence simply has not been provided.
So in my opinion this site is not suitable for those leaving the W.T, still too fragile to have their faith in God challenged. The psychological realities I appreciate can be devasting, particularly if you are still trying to get the pain out, of having lost your faith in the W.T, and former friends and family.
Sorry for such a long O.P.
The Rebel

 +8 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 17 hours ago

I just think that a lot of JWs who have had their eyes opened have opened them fully.
I think JWs who spent their lives scrutinizing the most innocuous passages of the bible and coming up with deep meaning, and also getting explanations for the most blatant contradictions.
As JWs, we have spent our lives studying the bible.
Each book and verse were examined for deep meaning, and prophetic significance.
Year after year we were given "explanations" of who the most idiotic stuff fit into scientific truth.
Year after year, the most blatant contradictions were either causally explained away, or some over arching future structure was added to it so it would make sense when god explained the details.
We had it pounded in that we are the ONLY true religion, and many people would "ironically" express "if this isn't the truth then there isn't one"
After all that and more, its hard to come to the conclusion, "oh we got the trinity wrong, but all the other stuff is still ok", if you know what I am saying.
 +5 / -0
jookbeard
jookbeard 17 hours ago
I think this site is very welcoming for jw's , a site like this with a pro Christian stance would be the very last thing jw's lurking or newly exited especially the fundamental side, all are welcome though, there is a good mix here.
 +1 / -0
notsurewheretogo
notsurewheretogo 17 hours ago

If you did a poll on all exjws and asked them what they now believe I'd bet that the majority are athiest...
It's not "run by athiests"...its just many exjws come to the conclusion there is no god.
Most of us when a dub were told never to question things and now we do...so when someone comes on here and expresses their opinion or point of view that there is a god..well we question it...we ask about the evidence and we share the evidence we have found that brings us to our conclusion that there is no god and that evolution and abiogenesis is the "truth".
Most posters who are athiests are respectful to believers in a god but we still have the right to ask questions, ask for evidence and point out the major issues in believing in a god...and that is our right.
This is true not just on here but on every discussion on creation v evolution...believer v athiest.
If a believer chooses to pass by the reasons we express for being an athiest then that is there right...on here...I, like many others, will not belittle them for having beliefs...but I stress we may question and point out things that can be uncomfortable to a believer.
But this is not to in an argumentative way or to be critical...I find most athiest posters on here very respectful...and some are enthusiastic.
 +3 / -0
done4good
done4good 17 hours ago

From one perspective, I can see where you are coming from. Many posters do seem to "pitch" atheism, (even if only by inference), to newbies from the start. I would agree that is not necessarily productive. Although I myself came to an atheistic conclusion several years ago, I certainly did not get there overnight, immediately after leaving the WT. It took research, some practical experience, and a long meditative process to become comfortable with that conclusion.
There used to be a really good ex-JW information site called "Beyond Jehovah's Witnesses" that was ran by late Timothy Campbell. Although an atheist himself, he recommended developing a temporary philosophy of sorts upon exit from the WT, one where a person allows themselves to take in information and not commit to a "belief" system, (yes, I know many atheists will argue atheism is not belief; I am not debating that here, so don't). I found this to be an effective method of development post-JW. There are no shortcuts after leaving years of ambient abuse from a system such as the WT.
As far as this site is concerned, I think what you are seeing is a microcosm of some of the changes in society in general. I remember 10 years ago, we had a lot of born-again types here, I think mostly influenced by Randy Watters' Freeminds site. Although Freeminds proved to be a treasure trove of good information I eventually used to draw a conclusion against bible belief, it clearly had a Protestant born-again bent, reflecting the beliefs of its owner. Today, most people are better informed, and once turned off from one religion usually know better than to jump into another one. There are much better sources of information today available than the Freeminds site. I think this leads many to an atheistic conclusion much faster than even in relatively recent years past.
d4g

 +4 / -0
Half banana
Half banana 17 hours ago

The normal route an ex-JW takes is to wake up to TTATT; that the org is deficient and wrong and just another religion.
The idea that “Jehovah is God” nevertheless remains a while for probably the majority of us. Those needy of supernatural help remain believers and about one third of ex-JWs, so I understand, keep a faith in the regular Christian doctrines outside of Witnessdom.
After a while of having left the JW community and indoctrination and having seen the cultic nature and mental slavery to naive ideas, many of us also have come to realize that the focus of Jehovah and Jesus are also lacking a solid basis outside of the mind.
I imagine this is the norm (corrections and refinements welcome) and personally I warmly welcome all ex-JWs irrespective of my own present thinking. We were all damaged by this cult and many need a refuge like this site with helpful words from our fellow escapees.
 +2 / -0
The Rebel
The Rebel 17 hours ago

Jookbeard " ..all are welcome though, there is a good mix here"
The Rebel:- " Agreed, but posts do offer direction which challenges a posters thinking, and because we all don't agree words can become more yelling emotional rants !! rather than " why don't you try to see it my way?
I will be honest I didn't come to any conclusion being involved in a debate on this forum, I am not interested in posts that basically say " my point of view is the greatest, you are wrong". But I did spend many hours evaluating the comments made on challenging O.P s, and I found I couldn't justify and clarify my beliefs on that debate. Therefore I concluded my beliefs were not debatable. That's not to say on this board believers and unbelievers can't mix, Perry, Compound & Complex and remember Mouthy? These are testimonies of those that are believers and can defend and be respected for their beliefs. But my point is many believers who come here are more neurotic and fragile in their beliefs, and they can leave here as lost as they arrived.
i really do appreciate my age, my circumstances that allowed my beliefs on God to be challenged, had I been in different circumstances I think I could easily have been a poster who didn't benefit from that. ....so my point is? Being right about some things whilst important, isn't really the most important thing, not unless you are always right.
The Rebel.
 +2 / -0
Terry
Terry 16 hours ago

You can't control chaos!
That's what strikes me as hilarious, the idea that this world is under the "Control"
of a secret group of men. Ha ha ha ha.
As far as this Discussion Group is concerned, you can start a topic which
says, "White is White" and you'll get arguments and probably an accusation of
racism.
There is no control, only opinions.
 +4 / -0
freemindfade
freemindfade 16 hours ago

I think there were (are) a lot of smart witnesses drinking koolaid. When they put the cup down they wake up to the fact that the bible is epic bullshit. And yhwh is no more real than batman.
I don't believe its just and exjw thing. I think in the time we live in its harder and harder to believe irrational myths and superstitions and seem like a sane person.
I woke up to the bible being total crap and there being no big J in the sky first, before learning ttatt and dumping out the koolaid.
 +3 / -0
SecretSlaveClass
SecretSlaveClass 16 hours ago
I don't really see many atheists pushing atheism. What I do see a lot of is people challenging faith with facts who happen to be atheists. I don't see atheism being offered as an alternative to theism here, rather I see evidence being offered as an alternative to faith. Why on earth would anyone not be open to learning anything, whether it be evolution or something about a religion?
 +5 / -1

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Is this a site controlled by atheists?
by The Rebel 18 hours ago 23 Replies latest 3 hours ago   jw friends
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freemindfade
freemindfade 16 hours ago

I heard Neil Degrasse Tyson say some thing very interesting on the radio a few weeks back. They were talking about the flat earth movement. And him and one well known rapper going back and forth on Twitter about it. But what I thought was interesting that he said he would not debate it and he wasn't. But he did say that when someone presented "evidence" that he would correct them when its bs.
This site is like a debate class. You can't say anything without it being turned into a debate competition whether you are trying to debate something or not. In day to day life I don't debate atheism and I don't try to preach it. I will call bs on some things if faulty information is given. Or biased information. I was never a good pushy witness I think I'm not a very good pushy atheist lol. Too lazy maybe??? I will give my opinion from time to time though (if solicited of course). :smile:
 +3 / -0
punkofnice
punkofnice 16 hours ago

Is this a site controlled by atheists?
God knows.
(Chortle)
 +5 / -0
LoveUniHateExams
LoveUniHateExams 16 hours ago

This site is not controlled by atheists.
The owner is an atheist but that is neither here nor there.
I agree with D4G that some vulnerable people coming here for the first time should not be hit with atheism straight away.
If such newbies choose to comment in an atheist vs theist thread then that's another matter entirely.
 
tornapart
tornapart 16 hours ago

I've been a member of this site for 4 years now and whilst I've noticed there are a lot of atheists there are also many theists too. I would take a guess though that the vast majority are now agnostic and just want to get on and have a happy enjoyable life without being bothered by anything to do with religion.
I do think it's a shame though when someone new comes here still expressing a faith in God and being lambasted for it (unless of course they are trolling). I don't see it happen often but occasionally it does. As my username denotes, that is how I felt when I discovered TTATT. Having my faith in God challenged at the outset would have been something I couldn't have handled at the time. It's a long slow process for many to challenge dearly held beliefs for so long. It's important to be as welcoming as possible to newcomers and not bombard them with atheism at the outset.
Nice post Rebel
 +1 / -0
Heartsafire
Heartsafire 16 hours ago

I noticed right away that atheists on this site have no problem presenting their point of view. I don't think this is done out of a desire to stamp out belief in god so much as it is an invitation to believers to open their minds to new explanations supported by logic.
When you are the type of JW who has been having to suppress your desire to explore topics such as evolution or the OT books being folktales a site like this one can be enlightening.
I'm still a believer to an extent, but I no longer feel the need to use that belief as an emotional crutch or an explanation for why everything exists in the world.
 +3 / -0
dubstepped
dubstepped 16 hours ago
Yes.
 
The Rebel
The Rebel 16 hours ago

This is a young J.W to me, " East of Eden" the movie expressed the timeless conflict between a fathers rigidity, and an adolescents search for love and understanding, and a young generation of people had began to identify instinctively with the pain and bewilderment of James Dean in that film.( This to me represents the athiest talking to the in-exsperienced believer)
But my point is as a young Jehovers Witness, all you are programmed to do is identify with the W.Ts interpretation of God, and as an adolescent teenager, when you realize the lie, and you look for love that your parents won't give, (IMAGINE THAT) Yet the bewilderment is the young kids still believe in God....then they come here and can barely articulate themselves ...they are just Young people, all lost like James Dean, but without the self- confidence and ability to have yet found themselves.
Ok I created a profile, but the thing is we are all imaginary profiles on the Internet, but we are not all actors, we are most often real humun beings, all over the world from different cultures and love and understanding. In my opinion this is often what people search for as opposed to truth. Anyway I am an athiest, but I hope I can debate and shake hands when I debate with a believer, otherwise I believe I failed in my purpose.
The Rebel.
 +1 / -0
stan livedeath
stan livedeath 14 hours ago
i left the watchtower cult--back in 1971--because i was an atheist. i didnt become one because i left.
 +1 / -0
Heartsafire
Heartsafire 14 hours ago
Rebel, good point. I agree that people are often looking for support and understanding more than anything. Whenever I post a comment I try to be as respectful and understanding as possible. If I find I can't comment on a debate without getting all worked up, than I simply won't post or I wait until Ive chilled out and can post a comment without biting off someone's head.
 +3 / -0
Xanthippe
Xanthippe 14 hours ago

I think because of people using social media for support when leaving this cult, or any cult, they were raised in there is a danger of moving too fast in changing beliefs.
In '89 when I left it was a matter of finding books in the library or book shops and slowly examining different Bible translations including a non-JW Greek and Hebrew interlinear. Then we bought Bible encyclopaedias and learnt about other religions. Then we started looking at evolution, anthropology and history.
When new people join this site most posters are welcoming and gentle with traumatised JWs who are just waking up. A few react with a knee jerk reaction to any talk about God or the Bible. I don't think it is just because they are atheists I think it's because they're idiots. What do they expect people to say who've had their heads filled with religion for twenty, thirty years or more?
Is this site controlled by atheists? Well Simon is an atheist but there are many religious people here who he's allowed to stay. Perhaps if we all remember it takes time to get free of the cult mindset and not launch at new people who mention God or the Bible. Also it's hard to give up a belief of having someone there to lean on and you're right sometimes these are just young kids who can barely articulate their feelings.
I do wonder what happens when these kids who see TTATT but still believe in God are warmly welcomed by all including atheists then go on another thread and see believers severely criticised for their faith. Does it cancel out their warm welcome? Do they stick around?
 +2 / -0

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Topic Summary
under the exterior of being an ex- witness site, is this site simply converting atheism?.
i pose the question, because many come here in distress and insecurity with the realization that the w.t is wrong but still retain a belief in god.
my personal opinion is the threads on god are not challenged by an atheists personal animosity to believers, they are challenged and become confrontational because the atheist wants an elaboration and factual proof to a believers faith.. is this unreasonable?



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by TTWSYF 3 months ago
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ttdtt
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by ttdtt 20 days ago
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Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-22-2015 WT Study (God Loves us?)
by blondie 4 months ago



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Is this a site controlled by atheists?
by The Rebel 18 hours ago 23 Replies latest 3 hours ago   jw friends
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Island Man
Island Man 13 hours ago

Simon is an atheist, so yeah, this site is controlled by atheists. Atheists rule! Yeah!!

 
Simon
Simon 13 hours ago

Yes, I am an atheist but try to be fair - you don't have to be an atheist to post here, just respectful of other people's opinions (as with all subjects).
We allow different views from all along the "belief" spectrum to be posted but we're not here to be a platform for people to preach from - whatever your views, no one should expect to post an opinion and not expect other people to voice theirs as well and question claims or statements.
People looking for an echo chamber should find someplace more appropriate to their needs.
 +3 / -0
cofty
cofty 5 hours ago

The best thing somebody can do when leaving the cult is put all of life's big questions on hold for a while.
Focus on building a new life, job, education, hobbies, sports, friends etc. There will be time for navel-gazing later. The only thing you need to know straight away is that there is no "last days" no armageddon and therefore no hurry to decide.
Many exJWs make the same mistake I did. They ring-fence a few fundamental beliefs without realising that is what they are doing. They assume that it is beyond dispute that there is a god, the bible is special, that Jesus is involved in their forgiveness and that one day all will be well.
It takes a lot of courage to really hold these foundational beliefs up to scrutiny.
When you are ready seek out the very best arguments that challenge your beliefs. If you do it right it will probably be disconcerting so don't rush it. Keep reading, debating and thinking. Your beliefs will eventually take care of themselves.
As for this forum it is a great place to find people who have made similar journeys and to learn something from their experiences.
 +1 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 3 hours ago
Many here when awakend start thinking and asking questions this Leeds down the rabbit hole of knowledge. For most the end result is athiesm and a belief in evolution. I once believed in the tooth fairy and Santa. Religion is for the ignorant.
 

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Topic Summary
under the exterior of being an ex- witness site, is this site simply converting atheism?.
i pose the question, because many come here in distress and insecurity with the realization that the w.t is wrong but still retain a belief in god.
my personal opinion is the threads on god are not challenged by an atheists personal animosity to believers, they are challenged and become confrontational because the atheist wants an elaboration and factual proof to a believers faith.. is this unreasonable?



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Terrorist attack in Belgium
by ILoveTTATT2 2 days ago 39 Replies latest an hour ago   jw friends
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ILoveTTATT2
ILoveTTATT2 2 days ago

Check the news. There was a terrorist attack in Brussells, couple of bombs detonated in the Brussell airport and the metro.
36 dead so far.
I send my sincerest condolences to the people of Belgium.
The motive seems to be revenge for the capture of the last surviving member of the Paris terrorist attacks.
 +5 / -0
fulano
fulano 2 days ago
Thanks. I have to collect my daughter at 4:30, No buses, supermarket without customers and few people on the street. Bastards.
 +3 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 2 days ago
Sucks probably religious zealots don't you just love how a belief in god has killed so many people over the centuries god is love.
 +4 / -0
fulano
fulano 2 days ago
God sucks ...
 +4 / -0
Simon
Simon 2 days ago

So sad for anyone who loses a loved one because of the utterly insane followers of this abusive death cult.
Stay safe everyone. Give your family a special hug today.
 +7 / -0
mana11
mana11 2 days ago

Belgium's generosity to Islam is reaping its rewards.
Unfortunately the innocent are the ones paying the price

 +5 / -3
Diogenesister
Diogenesister 2 days ago
Oh heck...my kids are due to go on a school trip to brussells. They go to a posh school full of well connected people...a couple of days ago some parents withdrew their kids from the trip and told everyone to think seriously about not going as it is far too dangerous at the moment...we were joshing each other for being neurotic parents..we' re not joshing anymore.
 +7 / -0
freemindfade
freemindfade 2 days ago

The fruits of religion
very sad
 +5 / -0
fulano
fulano 2 days ago
Don't let them go, it's so tricky now.
 +2 / -0
talesin
talesin 2 days ago

fulano, and any others in Belgium, you will be in my thoughts.
Terrorists will strike to create fear and anger. This makes less-militarized nations, a better target. No one is safe when terror tactics are being used, because death of the loving and the innocent is a good way to stir up hate.
Be safe, all.
 +4 / -0

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Terrorist attack in Belgium
by ILoveTTATT2 2 days ago 39 Replies latest an hour ago   jw friends
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LoveUniHateExams
LoveUniHateExams 2 days ago

Terrible news.
Absolutely wicked and crazy what some people will do for their religious beliefs.
My condolences to the friends and family of the dead.
I hope the injured make a swift recovery.
I also hope that the relevant authorities go after all the people that helped plan and execute this attack.
Kill the bastards.
 +4 / -0
fulano
fulano 2 days ago

Some of the suspects:
http://m.hln.be/hln/m/nl/36484/Aanslagen-Brussel/article/detail/2654485/2016/03/22/Dit-zijn-de-verdachten-van-de-aanslag-in-Zaventem.dhtml

 
ILoveTTATT2
ILoveTTATT2 2 days ago
This is so messed up. Terrorism is like a never ending whack-a-mole. Tit-for-tat. Kill/capture one terrorist, 10 more spring up... and so on and so on...

 
bohm
bohm 2 days ago
I don't get why they can go to Syria and fight for Morons International and not get charged with treason when they get home; it should be an instant ticket to 10 years in the shade and a potential extradition to Iraq or Kurdistan for additional charges.
 +4 / -0
bohm
bohm 2 days ago

In the country where I live, most of those who go to Syria goes to the same fundie musques often partially funded by Arabic oil money. The Imams of course treat it like it's a mystery why this is the case (it has be documented they have been involved in sending young people away for "Quran schools" which act as a halfway houses to Syria) all the while they preach the medieval interpretation of Islam and do their level best to for instance ensure the women do not get jobs but live on the dole.
Part of recognizing not all Muslims are terrorists is to recognize Muslims don't turn into terrorists because they catch a cold but there are specific environments which breed terrorists.
 +3 / -0
LoveUniHateExams
LoveUniHateExams 2 days ago

@bohm - agreed.
Those who go to Syria/Iraq to fight or support the terrorist effort in other ways (such as breed & squeeze out little Caliphate Cubs) should be either permanently barred from their countries of residence or face life imprisonment and be deemed to have committed treason.
 +3 / -0
talesin
talesin 2 days ago

Excellent points, bohm.
There is an aspect that has never been featured in the press, which is the Saudi connection. Hell's bells, all we need to do is research back 150 years, and connect the dots. Next, look at 21st century events. Start with the 9/11 terrorists, and what nationality where they? Next, look at the history of Iraq and the West. 1960s Pakistan/Bangladesh anyone? We are woefully - perhaps willfully - ignorant. (small rant, sorry, back to the topic)
 +2 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon 2 days ago

Prime Minister B. Netanyahu " They are seeking utter destruction", where have i heard these words
before.
 +1 / -0
WingCommander
WingCommander a day ago

Another day, another example of fine conduct and love from "the religion of peace." But hey, what do I know? I live in what the Ayotollah of Iran called, "The Great Satan".
Now I ask all of you, what did Belgium ever do to anyone, besides unleash the incredible leg-splitting Jean-Claude Van Dam upon the world?

 +7 / -0
ILoveTTATT2
ILoveTTATT2 a day ago

what did Belgium ever do to anyone, besides unleash the incredible leg-splitting Jean-Claude Van Dam upon the world?
They gave us tasty waffles too! And this is how some people repay the Belgians!?
 +4 / -0

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Topic Summary
check the news.
there was a terrorist attack in brussells, couple of bombs detonated in the brussell airport and the metro.. 36 dead so far.. i send my sincerest condolences to the people of belgium.. the motive seems to be revenge for the capture of the last surviving member of the paris terrorist attacks..



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Terrorist attack in Belgium
by ILoveTTATT2 2 days ago 39 Replies latest an hour ago   jw friends
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Hoffnung
Hoffnung a day ago
They allowed radical imams financed by Saudi oil money to unleash their views upon young, jobless men from north-African descent without any future.
 +4 / -0
talesin
talesin a day ago

And this is how some people repay the Belgians!?
Not 'some people' - specifically, terrorist organization that seeks to create fear and hatred world wide. And what better way to target the 'innocents'?
Hoffnung - Indeed. Addressing the issue of 'why' these young people are easy targets for recruitment, and who is behind it.
 +1 / -0
myguel.pt
myguel.pt a day ago
I heard the JWs are going to do the Memorial in small groups.
 
kaik
kaik a day ago

I was last time in Brussels 2.5 years ago on my way to Prague. It was one of the many visits I had in Belgium, but one thing that struck me immediately back then is how this city felt like the Middle East. I was pretty much only the white guy there walking with a laptop bag. I did not feel safe. The airport is even worse. When I waited for a flight to Prague, I was surrounded by gypsies and whatever strangely looking existence, where someone tried to rip a laptop from me.I was glad to leave.
After Paris attacks, it was clear that something else is brewing and Brussels was mentioned multiple times that it is a hotbed for terrorist attacks. There were several arrests of French and Belgium citizens with ME descent who were smuggled weapons from Ukraine into Schengen zone via Slovakia and Poland. This will be very difficult summer as European LE do not have government backing to deal with the crisis. The liberals will try to sweep everything under the carpet.

 +6 / -1
pepperheart
pepperheart a day ago
Is are a bunch of nutcases and unless you do totally what they want for the rest of your life then you are against them and are the enemy

 
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange a day ago

I'm shocked that there is this kind of violence there.
Don't they have very aggressive gun control laws?
Guess they couldn't get a gun, so they used a bomb.

Doc

 +0 / -1
kaik
kaik a day ago
It is just tip of the iceberg. Couple months ago, Czech police was tipped by Ukrainian authorities that they had indication that people of ME descent with French and Belgium nationality were shopping for weapons in Ukraine. Ukraine is full of weapons that spilled there from the conflict in Donbas. Four men were arrested on the way back on Czech/Slovak borders per news with stockpiled weapons in their car. There are indication that weapon smuggling into Western Europe is increasing through borders. Because Hungary is sealing borders left and right, these leaves Poland, Lithuania, and Slovakia opened to Schengen. Question is, how much intelligence can each country process and have sufficient LE on field to deal with the problem. France recognized last year that they do no not have sufficient resources to handle all the potential threats. Visegrad4 had been increasing LE spending since last summer, but it is not enough. It will be matter of time when European Union will turn into Israeli like security apparatus society with guys (and girls) with guns on every corner.

 +2 / -0
konceptual99
konceptual99 a day ago
Continental Europe is awash with guns.
 +1 / -0
smiddy
smiddy 21 hours ago

Isis , I.S. , Daesh , whatever they call themselves needs to be eradicated from the earth ,and the only way that is going to happen is by foot soldiers on the ground , otherwise this will go on for decades .
A tit for tat scenario , is that an option for Democratic nations to accept ?
It is not only the Western nations / Europeans , that have to make up this force it must include Middle Eastern nations as well .
If Islam nations are reluctant to participate , we will all have to wonder why.? And sanctions then should be imposed upon them .
Oh that`s right we rely on the M.E. for our oil supplies don`t we .Then maybe the west needs to threaten to take over those oil fields unless the Middle East steps up to the mark.
How much longer are we going to tolerate these attacks on innocent people going about their normal day to day business around the world ?
It is now time Terrorists must feel the terror of the free world.
smiddy
 +1 / -0
konceptual99
konceptual99 21 hours ago
Whilst I don't question your view in principle smiddy, especially the need for the involvement of middle eastern nations, I do wonder exactly how you eradicate a viral ideology with guns?
 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
check the news.
there was a terrorist attack in brussells, couple of bombs detonated in the brussell airport and the metro.. 36 dead so far.. i send my sincerest condolences to the people of belgium.. the motive seems to be revenge for the capture of the last surviving member of the paris terrorist attacks..



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Terrorist attack in Belgium
by ILoveTTATT2 2 days ago 39 Replies latest an hour ago   jw friends
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mana11
mana11 19 hours ago

Smiddy,, IS is ISLAM, Sunni v Shia.

 
disillusioned 2
disillusioned 2 18 hours ago

"What exciting times we live in, we must be so close to the end".
This is what the witnesses say everytime something like this happens. How they can consider people being killed as exciting is beyond me. But then again God is going to destroy billions at Armageddon and they are eagerly waiting for that to happen!
I can't believe I once believed the same way.
 +1 / -0
LoveUniHateExams
LoveUniHateExams 17 hours ago

what did Belgium ever do to anyone - well, Belgium did instigate colonial rule in what used to be called the Belgian Congo (the same area that used to be called Zaire and is now DR Congo).
But this has nothing to do with the Muslim World or the Arab World, so The Guardian has gone with the idea that these attacks are 'revenge' for Belgian authorities arresting the ring-leader of the Paris massacre, Abdeslam.
Apparently, some more suspects are on the run. Hopefully the authorities will hunt these animals down.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/22/brussels-attacks-show-how-global-terror-networks-act-local
 
zeb
zeb 16 hours ago
I fear the outbreak of ground warfare in Europe and greater spread of terror attacks.
 
SecretSlaveClass
SecretSlaveClass 15 hours ago

Unfortunately there is no easy solution to terrorism. It's a faceless enemy filling its ranks from all walks of life, requires little in the line of logistics, plays by no rules, is dedicated to ideology instead of compassion and is single minded in its quest. It also has a temporary status. What do I mean by that? Let me try to explain.
To those agreeing with the ideology they are freedom fighters and if freedom is won, then that is how they will often be viewed by history. South Africa's ANC and its armed wing, Rhodesia's ZANLA, the Vietnam Cong, innumerable South and Central American guerilla parties, the French Resistance- they were all once regarded as terrorists by someone but today they are either viewed as freedom fighters against oppressive powers or as legitimate governments. Ultimately the freedom fighters themselves did not win but helped garner attention for their causes with violence so that political discourse was finally seen as a solution to end the violence. This is the ultimate goal of terrorism, to use violence to force a favorable political outcome.
No matter how many bullets are fired, bombs dropped and terrorists killed, fundamentalist terrorism will not go away until either a compromise is reached (which rarely ever works) or one side completely caves in and negotiations are a farce more than an agreement. Until Muslims themselves make an attempt to stamp out fundamentalists amongst themselves, it will continue with different names and flags regardless of how much non-Muslims resist. Their support system has to cease support, it's as simple as that. What is not simple, is making them see that.
 +1 / -0
Kick50r
Kick50r 15 hours ago

As in all recent "terror attacks" I expect that before that , some laws were being considered in the E.U. that were not pleasant to everyone. After the attack , usually , those same laws that were being considered are no more, and a NEW law is approved over night in a hurried meeting , that will be public knowledge only years later.
In the meanwhile , political partys, individuals and organizations "insist" that the only thing to do , is invade those countries with "boots on the ground" , wipe them all out , make them adopt our "perfect democracy" while what is done is destroy those countries infrastructure, stealing resources.Later U.S./U.K. CORPORATIONS rebuilt all of that and enrich themselves.
In the meanwhile , our Corporate media BEFORE investigations are made already has the case figured out, AS IT WAS THE CASE OF 9/11 BUILDING STANDING IN THE BACK WHILE THE PRESENTER WAS SAYING HE HAD FELL.
Interesting to note though the comment above that says that in a posh school with good connections "some" parents apparently cancelled the trip to Brussels and advised all to do the same.
NOW, either there was a message from god telling those parent what to do ,OR they have conections with terrorist organizations. I fail to see the 3rd option atm.
Take Care All
 
talesin
talesin 15 hours ago

smiddy, one of the problems (in my pov) is that the US is no longer dependent on OPEC for oil. Lessons were learned during the earlier crisis (late 70s, early 80s, line ups at gas stations, etc.). The USA gets 25% of its supply from Canada, which is its largest current supplier. ME countries no longer have that control. The balance of power with 'oil' has, once again, shifted. This has been going on since the mid-20th Century. OPEC was formed when the Arabs got sick of being treated like they were stupid, and raped of their profits. They spent decades paying 'us' back. Now, the tide is turning, and the days of fossil fuels are numbered. I think that the USA and the Saudis are partnered in the next phase of suppressing greener energy's availability to the public (we have the viable technology) in order to squeeze every last cent out of the oil business. *shrugs*
hahah, "You'll take my [oil profits] when you pry them from my dead, cold, fingers." ah, memories
 
talesin
talesin 15 hours ago

I remember the IRA, and did quite a bit of reading on the history before the 60s. It's the only war of terrorism that I lived, watched ... in the end, what was it proven to be about? Not religion, but oppression. It just so happened that the ruling class was CofE and the oppressed class was RC - for centuries! Was the Church involved? Yes. But the root cause? Oppression of an entire country, an indigenous people, by an outdated colonial ruling class.
It's all about money and power - religious fanaticism does not exist in a vacuum. There is a reason people turn to it, just as they do to any fanatical ideology. Sound familiar? We know that cults recruit the weak.
 
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 15 hours ago

the only way that is going to happen is by foot soldiers on the ground , otherwise this will go on for decades .
It is now time Terrorists must feel the terror of the free world.

I agree, this terrorism is going to continue unless you attack the heart of the problem and that is fundamental Islamic adherence such as the sharia law inspired ISIL., Daesh, El Qaeda, , Taliban ..etc.

There has to be a clear defining message that extends all over the world that this kind of social behavior is unacceptable and will be dealt with in the strongest way. fear to repel specific action in other words.
If death isn't deterrent for these terrorist in their suicide pact then your have to work on their psychology before they become suicidal terrorists.

 
kaik
kaik an hour ago

It is crucial to mention that every single country in the EU and Europe enabled these terrorist attacks. From London and Madrid, the political correctness of the liberal-left refused to acknowledge any problem and actually made the situation even worse. Currently there are hundreds of ISIS trained terrorists in Europe who welcomed everyone with open arms without any background check. There will be more deaths and more attacks, but it will change absolutely nothing on the ground.
The liberal-left have to acknowledge they are facing a hostile ideology that is based on religion. They are refusing to see the problems and will rather sacrifice such crucial piece of democracy like freedom of press and speech. They will blame Americans, Russians, and single out everyone who disagree with them as a racist and nationalist. More people will die. I already said under the Paris attack board, how many lives are acceptable for EU left in order to build their multi-culti utopia?

 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
check the news.
there was a terrorist attack in brussells, couple of bombs detonated in the brussell airport and the metro.. 36 dead so far.. i send my sincerest condolences to the people of belgium.. the motive seems to be revenge for the capture of the last surviving member of the paris terrorist attacks..



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by dubstepped 24 days ago



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Bangalore
Religious Freedom
by Bangalore in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 13 hours ago
.

bangalore.

OnTheWayOut
12
"M" is for "Memorial"
by OnTheWayOut in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 14 hours ago
many weeks ago, i apparently put "m" on today's date- wednesday, march 23rd, in my google calendar.

it was supposed to remind me that the memorial that jehovah's witnesses observe would be held today.

i was flipping through my calendar this past weekend and asked my wife "what in the world is 'm' for (that day)?

OnTheWayOut
jambon1
Dagney
7 hours ago
jambon1
3
Tony Morris and his ill fitting suits
by jambon1 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 17 hours ago
looking at him on these jw org videos.

his suits look so bad.

can't he afford a tailor?

SecretSlaveClass
fulano
WTWizard
15 hours ago
The Rebel
23
Is this a site controlled by atheists?
by The Rebel in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 18 hours ago
under the exterior of being an ex- witness site, is this site simply converting atheism?.

i pose the question, because many come here in distress and insecurity with the realization that the w.t is wrong but still retain a belief in god.

my personal opinion is the threads on god are not challenged by an atheists personal animosity to believers, they are challenged and become confrontational because the atheist wants an elaboration and factual proof to a believers faith.. is this unreasonable?

Simon
cofty
Crazyguy
3 hours ago
jhine
1
You may find this interesting ( or not )
by jhine in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 19 hours ago
this is from the premier christian radio website .

i think that it gives an insight into how different christendom is from the wt , this is an interdenominational site .. .

jan. .

jhine
19 hours ago
Truth and Justice
7
In regards to memorial, what I am going to do
by Truth and Justice in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
wow!

what a list of new friends we have on this forum, i don't know if i'll ever be able to keep up, but that's ok.. i wanted to dive in to the post to talk about the memorial.

i do not have any intentions of going, even if i was invited.

tornapart
FayeDunaway
compound complex
14 hours ago
hoser
18
We can now donate by credit card in canada on jw.org
by hoser in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
what a fine privelege to support jehovah with our valuable things.

Half banana
punkofnice
Anders Andersen
10 hours ago
Terry
42
I COLLECT QUOTES. . . Here are some of my favorites
by Terry in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
please post your favorites too.

my favorite quotations:.

you cannot change what you refuse to confront.. sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.. don’t think of cost.

punkofnice
HBH
closed
12 hours ago
Lostandfound
13
...the relief of Congregation Members
by Lostandfound in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 2 days ago
just clearing out all old stuff and came across tyhis line in my copy of the uk memorandum of constitution, passed by each uk cong in (i think) 1997).

this line bemused me as i know of no witness who ever receiver financial help from their congregation.

clause 4.2.4 read for other charitable purposes including the relief of congregation members who are in conditions of need hardship or distress.

adjusted knowledge
punkofnice
Crazyguy
15 hours ago
ILoveTTATT2
39
Terrorist attack in Belgium
by ILoveTTATT2 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 2 days ago
check the news.

there was a terrorist attack in brussells, couple of bombs detonated in the brussell airport and the metro.. 36 dead so far.. i send my sincerest condolences to the people of belgium.. the motive seems to be revenge for the capture of the last surviving member of the paris terrorist attacks..

talesin
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kaik
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If God is all powerful why did it take six days
by James Mixon 6 hours ago 17 Replies latest 12 minutes ago   watchtower bible
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James Mixon
James Mixon 6 hours ago

If God is omnipotent (all powerful) why did he take six days (or six thousand years jw.org) to
crete everything. Why not speak everything into existence all at once?
 
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 6 hours ago

Because man created the Genesis account and man knew and preconceived the scale of time
Man also created god(s) mostly out of ignorance and imagination.

 +2 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon 6 hours ago
Finkelstein: Yes I agree, this is a tough question for believers.
 
SafeAtHome
SafeAtHome 6 hours ago
Why do men always take the long way round of doing things. Maybe he needed directions and wouldn't ask! 😁
 +1 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon 6 hours ago
SafeAtHome; Good one.
 
OnTheWayOut
OnTheWayOut 6 hours ago

There was no paper and pencil "in the beginning." So God had to do everything in his (figurative) head. There was no way to see what it would turn out like, so he did a few steps at a time and stopped to see what it looked like. You know, like choosing the carpeted floor color and having to look at it before you decide what color walls and drapes to have. Should the carpet and drapes match exactly?
So I can imagine looking up from earth at the vast nothingness and trying to decide how to fill that sky and how to provide warmth for life and food for plants and whether to tie them all together or make them separate.
And it only got harder to decide as he created life. Sometimes, he put eyes all over a creature to see if he liked that, or made the front legs too short (t-rex) or morphed them into wings. Tough calls in each instance. You know, why couldn't birds have 4 or 6 legs along with wings?
Unlimited power doesn't mean you know what to do with it. Put a blank canvas in front of an artist and he will spend time staring at nothing, painting over what he painted, yadda yadda.
 
James Mixon
James Mixon 5 hours ago

What if the Bible said He created the earth and all on it in a blink of a eye.
How God created the earth by computer is funny as hell, maybe that's what happen.
 
Jerryh
Jerryh 4 hours ago

ahem

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/why-watching-comb-jellies-poop-has-stunned-evolutionary-biologists
 
James Mixon
James Mixon 4 hours ago

Jerryh: So the buttonhole is one of the finest innovations in the past 140 million years
of animal evolution. I'am so happy God figured that out before he made human, thanks to
the jelly fish. LOL
 
cofty
cofty 4 hours ago

Because he did it in the dark...



 

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If God is all powerful why did it take six days
by James Mixon 6 hours ago 17 Replies latest 12 minutes ago   watchtower bible
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James Mixon
James Mixon 4 hours ago

You will crawl on your belly for the rest of your days, not really a punishment for
the snake. So funny.
 
problemaddict 2
problemaddict 2 3 hours ago

Ricky Gervais is hilarious.
 
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 3 hours ago

He did so in because he knew that one day man would write about what he did in a book.

 
transhuman68
transhuman68 2 hours ago
When Genesis was written the Jews were already observing the Sabbath, based on some Babylonian worship of the 7 visible planets giving every week 7 days or something like that , so god was written in as observing the Sabbath too. Very convenient. Some BS like that anyway IIRC, lol.
 
freemindfade
freemindfade an hour ago
The bible: the goat herders guide to the universe...
 
James Mixon
James Mixon an hour ago
Freemindfade: That I must remember, "the goat herders guide to the universe".
 
LisaRose
LisaRose 36 minutes ago

Yes, once to start to question things there are a lot of bible stories that don't make sense. Like why did God need a flood to destroy mankind? Why couldn't he have just zapped them into oblivion, no need for an ark and to kill off all the dinosaurs, lol.
Or why did he create plants on the creative day before he created the sun? How did the plants survive with no chlorophyll?
 
Simon
Simon 12 minutes ago

Because god is a guy ... and he had to keep going back to the hardware store for stuff he forgot or messed up and needed to replace.
"One more planet ... one more planet ... dammit, too many planets, that galaxy is ruined. Shit, I have to go back to Home Depot ... AGAIN! I'm so pissed right now, I'm going to add some evil"
 

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Topic Summary
if god is omnipotent (all powerful) why did he take six days (or six thousand years jw.org) to.
crete everything.
why not speak everything into existence all at once?



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Who Selected the Canon? Does “The Watchtower” Tell Us the Whole Story?
by Doug Mason a day ago 3 Replies latest 20 hours ago   watchtower bible
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Doug Mason
Doug Mason a day ago

At pages 27 to 29 of its article, Does the Bible Tell Us the Whole Story About Jesus?, “The Watchtower” of April 1, 2010 discusses the subject: “Who Selected the Canon?”
The Watch Tower claims that Professor Oskar Skarsaune and Professor Kenneth Berding provide support for its contention that the list of Christian Greek Scriptures was a product of some first-century Christians who were endowed with “superhuman abilities”, and that the canon was not established in the second century.
Does “The Watchtower” tell the whole story on who selected the Canon?
Does it tell the whole story from the scholars that it quotes?
http://www.jwstudies.com/Does_The_Watchtower_Tell_Us_the_Whole_Story.pdf
Doug
 +1 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy a day ago
What bull most if not all NT books were written during or after the 2nd century.
 
Atlantis
Atlantis a day ago

Doug:
Thank you very much!
.
Atlantis!
 
Bugbear
Bugbear 20 hours ago

I have spent several years in the university, studying History of Ideas and Science and I have learnt that “scholars” at least in the western world agree on one point. This is that a bishop from Alexandria had a mayor influence over what was to be considered as “canonic” letters. This bishop was Athanastasious, well known as the creator of the trinity dogma. This was after a big battle with the Arians, who couldn´t accept that God was three….
Athanstasious have left letters (still stored at the Vatican library) telling all the early congs. in Asia and Italy, which written material, that could be considered as “canonic” . You also must know that during this time there was a numerous different letters circling around in all those first established congs. In fact We have almost noting of the original letters so all of these later letters must be based pure on oral tradition (They are all based on transcriptions of translations of transcriptons …….!!!)
If you want to know more of the origin of the “canonic” scriptures I strongly recommend you to look up prof. Barth Ehrman on YouTube. You can listen to his lessons there and get much information only from that…..
Bugbear
 

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Splane "Bible writer's not logical"
by Backinthebox 2 days ago 7 Replies latest a day ago   watchtower bible
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Backinthebox
Backinthebox 2 days ago
Bethelite asked splane since mt 25 is set in the great trib because half way through mt 24 events turn to the great trib, does that not mean the generation starts when the great tribulation starts and has nothing to do with 1914. Splane replied the bible writers were not logical they would pick a topic then randomly go back to another topic.
 +2 / -0
sir82
sir82 2 days ago
Where & when did this conversation take place?

 
ttdtt
ttdtt 2 days ago
When was this? Do you have some more context to this story?
 
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 2 days ago

Mmmm...sounds plausible.
DD
 
Fencing
Fencing 2 days ago
That wouldn't surprise me. I know they claim parts of the Gospel narratives weren't laid out chronologically, which is how they hand-wave away the fact that, contrary to WT teaching, none of the accounts have Judas being dismissed before the establishment of the New Covenant.
 
AnneB
AnneB 2 days ago
I have a feeling that Splane said "chronological" or meant to.

 +2 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 2 days ago
They say what ever they want. When I was blowing up thier doctrines about the mediator and new covanant the elder got around it inn the heads by saying the things written were just For The anointed. Yep the whole new testament of the bible written only for the anointed. Idiots
 +1 / -0
Backinthebox
Backinthebox a day ago
He might have meant to say chronological but didn't. Still it would contradict the reasoning on mt 25 taking place during the great trib because mt 24 halfway through does. Either the generation also does or it's all random guess work you can't have it both ways
 

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2016-3-18-BOE-Discontinuing Feature Length DVD and Audio CD Production!
by Atlantis a day ago 12 Replies latest 8 hours ago   watchtower bible
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Atlantis
Atlantis a day ago
2016-3-18-BOE
.
Re: Discontinuing Feature-Length DVD and Audio CD Production
.
http://we.tl/cpEVENKIz2












scan 10001



.
.
Petra!
 +3 / -1
Lost and adrift
Lost and adrift  a day ago
That's awesome. .Sunday afternoon matinees at a KH near you...The Prodigal Son followed by a special screening of The Governing Body live at The ARC
 
hoser
hoser a day ago
I think all of us on this site saw this coming.
 +1 / -0
steve2
steve2 a day ago

However, because of recent changes in technology, the production of all feature-length videos on DVD is being discontinued.
 What does this mean? What changes? I think what they mean is this: Feature-length videos of DVD are expensive to produce and distribute.


 +3 / -0
HowTheBibleWasCreated
HowTheBibleWasCreated a day ago
They will produce movies on JW.org or JW Libray Just as well to have less CDs/DVDs
 
zeb
zeb a day ago
why does that girls hair make my mouth water; its just gorgeous!
 +3 / -0
steve2
steve2 21 hours ago

I dont get people who have a "mouth watering" response to the sight of human hair; I get put off when I proceed to eat something only to discover a hair or two on it.
 +1 / -0
Slidin Fast
Slidin Fast 20 hours ago
Perhaps they are going to start releasing audio on vinyl.....or shellack.
 +1 / -0
Barrold Bonds
Barrold Bonds 14 hours ago
DVDs and CDs were made by a 3rd party so it's another cost saving measure.
 
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 13 hours ago

 All these savings just encourage me to continue NOT giving to the Org. Keep those savings coming!
DY
 

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2016-3-18-BOE-Discontinuing Feature Length DVD and Audio CD Production!
by Atlantis a day ago 12 Replies latest 8 hours ago   watchtower bible
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BluesBrother
BluesBrother 13 hours ago

So no more discs to play on your DVD player. I guess it is all to be MP3 or MP4 or whatever the Internet file format is.
Great for the smart and tech savvie who have probably ditched their record collection already And watch U rated movies on Netflix. What about the older ones, those in senior homes and the many I know who are just not "With it"?
The Borg does not care about them any more..... I guess it will save money !
Thanks Atlantis ....and Petra
 +1 / -0
PaintedToeNail
PaintedToeNail 13 hours ago

Yay! Hubby won't be leaving his media in my son's car anymore!
 +1 / -0
LevelThePlayingField
LevelThePlayingField 8 hours ago

I agree with BlueBrother - yeah, the hell with the older ones in the halls. Get the DVD your own way says the slave cause we aint producing it anymore. Now you're gonna have to get it from someone else who has the technology and if they don't visit you at the nursing home, then oh well, then you just don't get it at all.
That's what it amounts to, being totally dependent on others and others technology. It used to be that the slave would give them the human dignity to at least order their own DVD or bound volumes so they would have their own stuff, but not any more, no how no way. All to save a buck or two. It just shows you where their head is at.
 

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Topic Summary
2016-3-18-boe.. re: discontinuing feature-length dvd and audio cd production.
.. http://we.tl/cpevenkiz2.
.. .. petra!.



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They want to get rid of "anointed ones" - It's getting clear
by thedepressedsoul 10 hours ago 22 Replies latest 2 hours ago   watchtower bible
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thedepressedsoul
thedepressedsoul 10 hours ago

I've never met a group that turns on it's members like the JW's. Sister faithful that thinks she's anointed is now bat shit crazy with mental illness. We all have known it's true, but now you have the WT, who put it in everyone's head that you can be anointed. They are now calling the very ones it taught about it, mentally ill.
It seems to me that they want to get rid of anointed ones, besides those at the top. Read through this months study WT if you can bare it. I get the impression they want your average anointed in a KH, gone.
The first big show was when they took any power from the anointed by making only the top 7 the "Faithful and discreet slave". They stripped the anointed of any extra swing they may have in the KH.
Just do away with it already and stop turning on your members in every way!
 +6 / -0
ToesUp
ToesUp 10 hours ago

There is only room for 7 at the top. There may be some "helpers" that are voted in (Oops, I mean chosen by Jah) sarcasm.
I agree, it will eventually happen.
 +5 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 10 hours ago

When it was first realized that the number of anointed was climbing and not receding is when the GB heads wanted to discourage people partaking and self proclaiming they were of the anointed.

That's why the GB recently said that many who partake now are mentally off balanced.

For many years the WTS. said that the number were going to decrease as time progresses , well it didn't.
The self anointed assholes in WTS are self delusional crooks playing their own game of power and inclusion, that's one indefensible conclusion.

 +3 / -0
Fencing
Fencing 9 hours ago
The thing is, they caused the partaker number to start rising. It had been pretty steady for years, but then they decided to do away with the 1935 "sealing" of the number of anointed, and I think that opened the door just wide enough for those who were sitting on the fence about it to decide they were anointed, too.
 +2 / -0
SecretSlaveClass
SecretSlaveClass 9 hours ago
It's the same old power game. Reminds me of Orwell's Animal Farm and how the pigs slowly erode away the rights and equality of the other animals until they have consolidated their power and wind up oppressing the entire farm.
 +6 / -0
tor1500
tor1500 9 hours ago

Hi All,
Need some clarification. The 144,000 are chosen in the past & there is a remnant now ? Am I correct. Could someone explain these scriptures? Matt. 19:28;Jesus said to them: “Truly I say to you, in the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel. & Luke 22:30:so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom,+ and sit on thrones+ to judge the 12 tribes of Israel. So, I'm not understanding, will the 144,000 be chosen by Jesus's & the disciples will help Jesus to pick the 144,000. Luke says, they will sit on the thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel. Anyone can explain this to me...I think I know but I'm just trying to make sure. From these 2 scriptures, The 144,000 have not been judged or chosen as of yet....Thanks
Tor


 
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 9 hours ago

Speaking in terms of rational practicality, the anointed number has increased because the overall JWS membership has also progressively increased.

If the overall JWs membership continues to grow, which is getting to be doubtful, so will the anointed number grow.
There is nothing the GB heads can do to stop this growth from a scriptural standpoint.

 +1 / -0
stan livedeath
stan livedeath 8 hours ago

just to recap
the 144,000 is a literal--definite number--right--?
the 12,000 from each tribe of Israel--is symbolic--right ?
only i get confused easily.
 +5 / -0
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 8 hours ago

Of course they do! All self-righteous assholes hate "11th hour workers." The rising partaker number is an embarrassment to the WTBTS. It's one more example of thier failure to predict ANYTHING with accuracy in over 120 years!
Rutherfraud started this mess by claiming the calling ended in 1935. How the f*** would he know?!?! Then you have the literal interpretaion of the 144,000 by the WTBTS. Once time ran out on Boozerford's predictions and J-dumbs were dying right and left, someone had to run the Biz. It sure as hell couldn't be non-anointed, so of course the calling was opened again!
Just imagine the POWER that the GB would lose if the were no longer anointed. No one would obey their bat-shit crazy, pedophile protecting Legal team! No one would put up with the hypocritical bullshit from asshole Elders! The illusion of power is all they have left! They cannot afford to share any power with newbie anojnted ones.
Mark my words.....The GB Helpers WILL become anointed. IT WILL HAPPEN.....
DD
 +3 / -0
prologos
prologos 8 hours ago
tort1500. try this: In Rev 7, the 144000 come out of the 12 tribes, so like the apostles who had an earthly hope first, are the first of the :confounded:ealed anointed to do so. Therefore the 12 tribes are symbolically people on earth, worshippers. The sealing happens when a christian is killed for his faith, with the ax or other sharp instrument, Rev.20. wt is wrong, but if there is no talking snake, does it matter?
 +1 / -0

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They want to get rid of "anointed ones" - It's getting clear
by thedepressedsoul 11 hours ago 22 Replies latest 2 hours ago   watchtower bible
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ttdtt
ttdtt 8 hours ago

Guys it will all be clearly explained tonight:smile:


 +3 / -0
Joliette
Joliette 8 hours ago
Yes they do. The Jehovahs Witnesses get insulted and they dont even realize it. The watchtower insults them.

 +2 / -0
redvip2000
redvip2000 8 hours ago

Speaking in terms of rational practicality, the anointed number has increased because the overall JWS membership has also progressively increased
Is it? i'm not that convinced. The JW membership has grown over the decades, but this phenomenon of the increasing anointed is a fairly new thing. I think it's mostly because there is a new crop of younger JWs that are not only delusional, but also starving for attention and adulation.
I personally know 2 of these "newly anointed". One in his 40's, another in his 50s, and very odd people. One curious thing about these folks that are now claiming to be anointed, is that they seem to outcasts, or maybe people just distance themselves from them once they claim to be anointed.

 +1 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 8 hours ago

It would appear that the WTS created this only anointed to partake because mankind is supposedly living in the last days and the WTS heads (GB) wanted to self signify themselves as god's select during these last days.

This doctrine looks like it came about by all appearances, not much thought and contemplation.

This only anointed was supposed be the original JWS such as J Rutherford and so forth.

I think the point is that most of Christendom has probably taken this 144,000 choosing by god correct in that all baptized ones should partake of the emblems every year and god is suppose to make the choosing himself out all that partake, not people individually.
Something else to bring into account of this number .......

The book of Revelation 7:1-8 states as follows “After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,from the tribe of Gad 12,000, from the tribe of Asher 12,000,from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000, from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,from the tribe of Levi 12,000,from the tribe of Issachar 12,000, from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.”
 
Gayle
Gayle 8 hours ago
But why do they even 'publish' the number partaking? What's their point to do that?
 +2 / -0
steve2
steve2 8 hours ago

The number 144,00 is mentioned in just one book of the Bible - and then in the highly symbolic book of Revelation. So they accept that many many numbers and things in Revelation are not literal but have declared the 144,000 as literal and final.
But from 2006 when there was under 9,000 (8,758) partakers worldwide to 2016 when there was over 15,000 (15,177), the number of partakers haas kept growing (compare that with 13,284 worldwide in 1960).
That's what happen when you paint yourself into a corner.
 +1 / -0
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 7 hours ago

Maybe they will stop publishing that number? Maybe they will go to jail for their pedophile protecting ways? I sure hope so! BURN THE MOTHER DOWN! I wouldn't piss on Tony Morris or WTBTS Lawyers if they were on fire.
The WTBTS has a plan. Their latest Partaker bashing WT reveals it. I may write about it later. Basically the R&F should not judge, but Mother will. The GB helpers will be those who have "gradually" been called and who have made significant changes in their lives... They will be the ones who should not be judged...
I GUARAN-F***ING-TEE IT.
DD
 +3 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 7 hours ago

So Revelation is full of SYMBOLIC numbers and items such as beasts, except when they are NOT SYMBOLIC but instead are LITERAL...
Hmmm....so who gets to decide what is SYMBOLIC and what is LITERAL.?
 +2 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 6 hours ago

I think it's mostly because there is a new crop of younger JWs that are not only delusional, but also starving for attention and adulation. 

Thats a viable explanation as well, another connecting issue is that the age demographic for JWS has incrreased and I think there are now some old timers who gradually took it upon themselves to be the anointed.
Fun and games every where.

 +2 / -0
kairos
kairos 6 hours ago

The only relevance the 'number of partakers' had is with the failed prophecy of "Millions now living Will Never Die". ( the generation of anointed that saw the sign in 1914 )
When the numbers were steadily decreasing it meant we were close to 'The End'©. yay!
That generation is meaningless now with the wonderful nu-lite of 'Overlapping Generations' and so are the 'anointed', meaningless.
This is part of the last phase of failed prophesy cover-up operations.
Ridiculous and sad.
Many saw it coming.
 +1 / -0

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i've never met a group that turns on it's members like the jw's.
sister faithful that thinks she's anointed is now bat shit crazy with mental illness.
we all have known it's true, but now you have the wt, who put it in everyone's head that you can be anointed.



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They want to get rid of "anointed ones" - It's getting clear
by thedepressedsoul 11 hours ago 22 Replies latest 2 hours ago   watchtower bible
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Finkelstein
Finkelstein 6 hours ago

Here's a thought to reflect upon, J Rutherford the guy who took over the WTS in 1916 was self proclaimed to be anointed .

This was a guy who was separated from his wife, who lived with his mistress, who made outlandish lies about the ancient worthies returning so he built a house for them to stay in, which actually he stayed in it himself.

Who lived a rich man's lifestyle, driving around in hand tailored suits and the most expensive cars he could find which only the very rich could afford and made numerous end the of world Armageddon soon proclamations .
From that acknowledgement one could conclude that god picks the most sinful, corrupt and idiotic people to be one of the anointed .


http://jwfacts.com/images/millions_rutherford.jpg

 
OnTheWayOut
OnTheWayOut 6 hours ago

Watchtower has married itself to a handful of things that it will find hard to separate from, let alone divorce itself from them.
Number one is 1914. They had chances in the past and decided not to take them. Now they would have a battle on their hands if they ditch it. They kept reinventing their past to say that they have always said accurate truths about 1914, so they got more and more intertwined with it.
Number two is the great tribulation occurring before "this generation" has passed. Blast that Bible anyway, it makes it too hard on that one. So they have changed what "this generation" means many times. Their last couple of changes have kept them firmly married to Number 3- the anointed. The overlap generation has bought them so much time, but it's at a point of ridiculousness. They will eventually have to change again, if Watchtower isn't gone in 40 or 50 years. Maybe they will leave the generation in place and change the meaning of what is supposed to happen before they all have passed.
Number three is the anointed. When the number of JW's was getting too big, they pulled that one out of their Bibles. They kept it around too long. In the 1970's it totally became the basis of their power structure and it has been highlighted as such ever since. They messed up way back when by allowing the anointed to be a bunch of followers. They should have corrected that long ago. Because the calendar is still driving their need for doctrinal changes, they will further attack what "anointed" means and who is it. I see a future where they declare that Holy Spirit (and Freddy Franz) have directly told them the number is full and only a very few men needed to be their spirit medium Governing Body members are actually of that group.
Think of all the money on wine and crackers that will save for congregations. They can buy the tiniest bottles and not worry about partakers.
 +1 / -0
truthlover
truthlover 2 hours ago

How can all the 144,000 be men and some women chosen from the earth to be a bride of Christ? Are all of them changed to women for the marriage to take place, cause Jesus is a male ? Why is the word "marriage" used?
You can be one in spirit and all be in agreement as to what control over the earth they may have, but to use the word marriage and Jesus being a male, what does that really mean-- when marriage is between a man and a woman?
Just a thought
 

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i've never met a group that turns on it's members like the jw's.
sister faithful that thinks she's anointed is now bat shit crazy with mental illness.
we all have known it's true, but now you have the wt, who put it in everyone's head that you can be anointed.



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Bible Research & Study Articles
Critical analysis of the WatchTower Bible & Tract Society publications and the bible
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James Mixon
17
If God is all powerful why did it take six days
by James Mixon in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 6 hours ago
if god is omnipotent (all powerful) why did he take six days (or six thousand years jw.org) to.

crete everything.

why not speak everything into existence all at once?

James Mixon
LisaRose
Simon
29 minutes ago
thedepressedsoul
22
They want to get rid of "anointed ones" - It's getting clear
by thedepressedsoul in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 11 hours ago
i've never met a group that turns on it's members like the jw's.

sister faithful that thinks she's anointed is now bat shit crazy with mental illness.

we all have known it's true, but now you have the wt, who put it in everyone's head that you can be anointed.

Finkelstein
OnTheWayOut
truthlover
2 hours ago
Doug Mason
3
Who Selected the Canon? Does “The Watchtower” Tell Us the Whole Story?
by Doug Mason in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 a day ago
at pages 27 to 29 of its article, does the bible tell us the whole story about jesus?, “the watchtower” of april 1, 2010 discusses the subject: “who selected the canon?”.

the watch tower claims that professor oskar skarsaune and professor kenneth berding provide support for its contention that the list of christian greek scriptures was a product of some first-century christians who were endowed with “superhuman abilities”, and that the canon was not established in the second century..

does “the watchtower” tell the whole story on who selected the canon?.

Crazyguy
Atlantis
Bugbear
20 hours ago
Atlantis
9
Board assistance for Debela!
by Atlantis in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 a day ago
friends, debela wrote to me several times requesting a video she says that i posted here:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5719452662366208/2-videos-if-you-want-them .

her description at the bottom of the page sounds like a watchtower edition and not a video.

neat blue dog
Atlantis
neat blue dog
9 hours ago
Atlantis
12
2016-3-18-BOE-Discontinuing Feature Length DVD and Audio CD Production!
by Atlantis in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 a day ago
2016-3-18-boe.. re: discontinuing feature-length dvd and audio cd production.

.. http://we.tl/cpevenkiz2.

.. .. petra!.

BluesBrother
PaintedToeNail
LevelThePlayingField
8 hours ago
Backinthebox
7
Splane "Bible writer's not logical"
by Backinthebox in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 2 days ago
bethelite asked splane since mt 25 is set in the great trib because half way through mt 24 events turn to the great trib, does that not mean the generation starts when the great tribulation starts and has nothing to do with 1914. splane replied the bible writers were not logical they would pick a topic then randomly go back to another topic.

AnneB
Crazyguy
Backinthebox
a day ago
JACOB Meza
4
N.H. Barbour As the "Evil Slave" Quote From "Blood on the Altar"
by JACOB Meza in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 2 days ago
i think the book blood on the altar, may have a misquote (or maybe it is just me reading it wrong).. p. 41, para.

"pastor russell took the place of mr. barbour who became unfaithful and upon whom was fulfilled the prophecies of matt.

the book give the reference of the zion's watchtower july 15th, 1879, p. 8 (http://jv.somet.dk/tekster/wt_1879_07_01.pdf).

Finkelstein
Atlantis
CubanGringo
21 hours ago
jwdoctrine
13
How Should Anointed Christians View Themselves?
by jwdoctrine in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 2 days ago
in this coming sunday's study article :”we want to go with you” and paragraph 5 we read :.

“those who partake of the emblems at the memorial should carefully consider the warning found at1 corinthians 11:27-29.

(read.

Room 215
Slidin Fast
Crazyguy
2 days ago
Atlantis
9
2016-3-20-BOE!
by Atlantis in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 2 days ago
2016-3-20-boe.

.. to applicants for the school for kingdom evangelizers.. http://we.tl/byfdshrdfc.

.. .. atlantis!.

jwleaks
Syme
StarTrekAngel
2 days ago
Luther bertrand
Does anyone have any experience with IAT's?
by Luther bertrand in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 2 days ago
i would like to create an iat for those who have been around jw's.

if you know what an iat is and how to build one and would like to be apart of this project/ pm me.


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On the Fundamentalist Notion of Babylon Destroyed - Forgot to Tell Ancient World
by kepler 4 days ago 11 Replies latest 3 days ago   watchtower bible
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kepler
kepler 4 days ago

Among puzzlements of sitting down with JW reps with "What the Bible Really Teaches", was the assertion that Babylon was destroyed - forever - just like it says in these here chapters and verses. Then the NWT claims that Peter I & II were written from Babylon. But beside that, ancient Greek, Hebrew and Roman writings are full of reference to Babylon as an important center. Alexander the Great entered it in 331 BC - and eventually died there from fever caught on campaigns. He meant to make it his Capital.
Still with me on this? The first couple of books of Herodotus' Histories describes Babylon life in detail. These were written about a century after the unopposed entry of Cyrus into Babylon after defeating Babylonian armies farther afield. Xenophon and the 10,000 were headed there to serve as mercenaries in the late 5th century. And Alexander - well, when he wasn't chasing Darius III, apparently made a stopover there too.
How do we know? Well, for a start, did our ancestors seriously doubt the matter? A few days ago, I saw a notice in the papers about the work of a 17th century master: "Woven Gold: Tapestries of Louis IV at the Getty Center through May 1st". The illustration was the work of Charles Le Brun, a 16' x 26 foot tapestry titled, :Entry of Alexander into Babylon."
A search on line provided several more images. Additionally there were at least one film depiction (Oliver Stone's Alexander) and accounts of the event from classical writers, principally Roman writer Quintius Curtius Rufus (History of Alexander) and Greek writer Arrianis ( the Anabasis). Both evidently drew from earlier sources.
While the film Alexander sold well overseas, in the US, hardly anyone took note. Perhaps if I had seen the film, five years later I would had more to say to the JWs who would visit my house Saturdays trying to convince me that everything they had read or were required to quote from was incontrovertible and entirely true.
 +4 / -0
millie210
millie210 4 days ago

This is so interesting kepler.
So that picture they used to show of an abandoned looking "whistle stop" - was it in the Babylon book?
Was that another spot altogether?
 +1 / -0
StephaneLaliberte
StephaneLaliberte 4 days ago

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the JWs don't deny this.
*** it-1 p. 237 Babylon ***
From that memorable date, 539 B.C.E., Babylon’s glory began to fade as the city declined. Twice it revolted against the Persian emperor Darius I (Hystaspis), and on the second occasion it was dismantled. A partially restored city rebelled against Xerxes I and was plundered. Alexander the Great intended to make Babylon his capital, but he suddenly died in 323 B.C.E. Nicator conquered the city in 312 B.C.E. and transported much of its material to the banks of the Tigris for use in building his new capital of Seleucia. However, the city and a settlement of Jews remained in early Christian times, giving the apostle Peter reason to visit Babylon, as noted in his letter. (1Pe 5:13) Inscriptions found there show that Babylon’s temple of Bel existed as late as 75 C.E. By the fourth century C.E. the city was in ruins, and eventually passed out of existence. It became nothing more than “piles of stones.”—Jer 51:37.

 +2 / -0
StephaneLaliberte
StephaneLaliberte 4 days ago

One way or another, when you read the prophesy of Jeremiah (51:37), it prophecies that God would  dry up Babylon's water and turn it to ruins in order to avenge the Israelites. Well, things didn't happen this way. The level of the water was lowered, not dried up. And the city did not turn to ruins. Unless you believe that what happened a 1000 years later, after the Israelites were rejected as God's people (according to Christians), could count as a result of executing that incredibly slow vengeance.
That's not what I call a truthful, accurate prophecy.
 +4 / -0
Vidiot
Vidiot 4 days ago

Kinda like the city of Tyre being desolated forever (as prophesied in Ezekiel)?
x
Fun story... at the start of my fade, the congo I was in had a map of the Biblical lands on the back wall of the second school.
Tyre was clearly marked, and - remembering that Bible passage - I circled it in ink and put "???" next to it. :smirk:
 
steve2
steve2 4 days ago
Another "prophetic" Scripture down the gurgler - or so loose, it can be interpreted untold ways.
 
kepler
kepler 3 days ago

Regarding burst bubbles:
Check out the pamphlet "What the Bible Really Teaches", pp. 22 to 25, a section called "A Book of Prophecy".
Whether the right hand knows what the left is doing and which is which in this case, this book claims that Isaiah prophesied the complete destruction of Babylon (chapter 13 and 14) and that Cyrus performed the deed ( 44 & 45).
As I said, I had looked at Herodotus prior to that. Babylon looked like it was still in good shape. Then there was Ezra chapters 7 and 8... Somewhere I made the connection that what Isaiah was talking about was the work of his contemporary, the Assyrian Sennacherib who deported Babylon's population, sacked the temples and diverted the river to flood and wash away its remains, circa 690. Cyrus, on the other hand, occupied the city with hardly a fight and swore he was going to fix the shortcomings of Nabonidus when it came to observing religious festivals.
 +1 / -0
Half banana
Half banana 3 days ago

Kepler thanks for bringing the Babylon history to the surface. JWs are so gullible they cannot even imagine that a factual, coherent understanding of history exists... just their own narrow viewpoint.
The painting of Alexander’s entry to Babylon by Charles Le Brun (from which a copy was made for a grand tapestry) is a stonking example of Baroque art, it focuses on the unbridled and worshipful homage to a classical leader hero and by deliberate implication; to the “Sun King” Louis. No wonder Le Brun became Louis XIV’s favourite painter. Baroque art in this painting is serving the interests of total political power. (If you like paintings; look her up and enjoy being charmed by Le Brun’s great-great nephew’s wife Louise Vigee Le Brun).
Getting back to your main point; the JW trolley men ask, ”What does the Bible really mean?” This question is loaded! It implies that the Bible has a meaning but is a puzzle which requires explaining.
Put this in context: with what; thirty or forty thousand sects each claiming that their particular interpretation is the only one which presses God’s button. What a mess, what a disaster!
The Bible HAS NO MEANING! It was second hand to start with... Its eclectic nature precludes it having a meaning since it is drawn from the established literature of most of the significant powers of the Middle East where Israel was and ever remained a pip-squeak tribal non-entity. It is full of nationalistic romance and dreams and is far from factual... it contradicts itself...it is not divine.
The Bible has every semblance of pathetic human weaknesses such as misogyny, hate, retribution, homophobia, xenophobia and an insistent streak of masochism and it majors in genocide. Even psychopaths tend not to be so comprehensive in their hate for their fellowmen compared to the leading characters in the Bible and especially Jehovah!
But JWs don’t think for themselves. They don’t generally realise that the most compelling Biblical commentary on the downfall of Babylon was written not long before the Christian era in the book called Daniel.By using historical precedents it made portentous prophecies written four centuries after the events had already occurred! Some prophecy! Like the destruction of Babylon, prophecy is a delusion and the Bible is a fraudulent.
This is the meaning of the Bible: A book written for the gullible who do not think for themselves and who cannot live without a fantasy hope to maintain their grip on life.
 +1 / -0
steve2
steve2 3 days ago

I simply love jw.org's simplistic headlines such as "Is the Bible Really the Word of God?" and "What Does the Bible Really Teach?" - trap-questions for the uneducated and gullible.
The Bible can be made to teach whatever you want it to, as JWs history clearly shows. This nonsense of teaching "only" what the Bible teaches is what every "Christian" fundamentalist religion on the face of the earth claims.
 
StephaneLaliberte
StephaneLaliberte 3 days ago
You know, thinking about this, I remember, when I was about 18 years old, I made a comment during a meeting where I said that Babylon was destroyed by Cyrus. Having read the prophecy, I had assumed that it had came true than. But the brother conducting the study corrected me: "Actually no; there were next to no damages done to the city - the doors were open and they didn't torch the city". I remember being in shock at that statement. Still, it was one of those things that my cognitive dissonance pushed me to ignore. Overtime however, little things like this brought me here.
 

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On the Fundamentalist Notion of Babylon Destroyed - Forgot to Tell Ancient World
by kepler 4 days ago 11 Replies latest 3 days ago   watchtower bible
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Crazyguy
Crazyguy 3 days ago
Kepler, I have a theory that maybe some of if not most of the prophecy about the desruction of Jerusalem and the 70 year desolation was in fact about Babylon. Babylon was destroyed by Senacharib the people deported and a curse put on it for 70 years. Im thinking these writings were then used to then describe Jerusalem's fate. To many similarities.
 
kepler
kepler 3 days ago

Crazyguy,
I think we have both gone over some of this before. But to clarify for others, there was in fact a curse placed on Babylon by Sennacherib: desolation for 70 years. Sennacherib ended his days via assassination, a presumed conspiracy of his sons, of whom Esarhaddon was chosen to succeed him. In the "community" there was a lot of concern about the severity of measures against Babylon - so Esarhaddon had it reversed. A stone stela records how the curse of desolation was re-invoked, but read upside down - inverting the cuneiform to 11 years from the previous 70.
Seventy years elsewhere in the Bible is counted as a human lifetime. And one can imagine that the notion was borrowed or shared with Assyrians. So given all that, it would not surprise me that there would be a widespread acceptance among middle easterners of Assyrian notions of retribution or law. It might have even been a Babylonian notion as well. I've heard I remarked elsewhere that a lot of the notions about Covenants ( e.g., in Deuteronomy) seem to resemble Assyrian treaties with states intimidated into alliances.
StephaneLalIberte,
Thank you both for your recall and your source material. Because we all now can see the enforced disconnect among elements of recruiting, daily belief and "apologetics". I suspect that the last is a mental Potemkin village, a display of rationality and scholarship while concocting the new New World Testaments to back theological positions already made.
Reflecting on the times I felt that I was confronted with saying "two plus two equals five" or else, I understand the how, but I do not fully understand the why. Then there were simply the consequences of whatever I chose. And it affected my life irrevocably. As it has others.
Shortly after I had to made choices for "four" when signals all around me were for "five", I encountered another people in my neighborhood connected with Lyndon Larouche's political movement. Larouche provided his young adherents with quick set elements of a classical education. They sang patriotic and operatic choruses together; they studied the physical sciences, economics ( of course), the history of the Enlightenment - and then somehow molded it into political thought of their Leader. Oddly enough there was a pantheon of Enlightenment scientists, but Isaac Newton was the Judas among Copernicus, Kepler ( actually no relation), Galileo and Leibnitz. Larouche had a fondness for Germany - much like Rutherford initially. Anyway, of the five or six of Larouche's followers that seemed to settle at one of the local coffee houses, all of them were ready to explain at length Newton's infidelity.
... Otherwise they would have been thrown out of the movement.
So somehow in the case of Babylon being utterly destroyed ( with the assist of Darius the Mede), I see a force at work.
 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
among puzzlements of sitting down with jw reps with "what the bible really teaches", was the assertion that babylon was destroyed - forever - just like it says in these here chapters and verses.
then the nwt claims that peter i & ii were written from babylon.
but beside that, ancient greek, hebrew and roman writings are full of reference to babylon as an important center.



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kepler
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On the Fundamentalist Notion of Babylon Destroyed - Forgot to Tell Ancient World
by kepler in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 4 days ago
among puzzlements of sitting down with jw reps with "what the bible really teaches", was the assertion that babylon was destroyed - forever - just like it says in these here chapters and verses.

then the nwt claims that peter i & ii were written from babylon.

but beside that, ancient greek, hebrew and roman writings are full of reference to babylon as an important center.

StephaneLaliberte
Crazyguy
kepler
3 days ago
JW GoneBad
18
California Electrician Dies After Falling 53 Stories...Possible JW and Suicide?
by JW GoneBad in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 5 days ago http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-construction-worker-falls-from-l-a-high-rise-hits-cars-dies-20160317-story.html.

social media is saying that this individual was a jehovah's witness.

can someone from the southern california area confirm this.

Finkelstein
fulano
Finkelstein
3 days ago
Graditude
1
Mary Magdalene
by Graditude in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 5 days ago
has anyone read the book "the expected one" by kathleen mcgowan

Vidiot
5 days ago
Atlantis
2
Debela--Here are those videos you wanted!
by Atlantis in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 6 days ago
videos requested:.. you became so beloved to us.. http://we.tl/xytu3oqfvi.

.. congregation presentation instruction videos/memorial etc.. .. 1. http://we.tl/cn2wnqayzh.

.. 2. http://we.tl/lidpxszhjb.

Tenacious
Atlantis
2 days ago
smiddy
13
Jehovah`s Witnesses an Old Testament Religion
by smiddy in Watchtower Society / JW.org
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 6 days ago
jehovah`s witnesses claim to be a christian religion , however looking at their history , publications ,such as the watchtower and awake mags., their conventions ,international ,regional ,local ,etc.their books pamphlets ,brochures ,etc.etc.

you are hard pressed to find references to the new testament and references to jesus and his ministry .. they seem to be more focused on the old testament , and the god of the old testament.jehovah.

even in their dramas at conventions , international and local events they are pre-occupied with old testament accounts and experiences , and not christian experiences , examples or ,lives to emulate .. they claim to be a christian religion and very seldom do they highlight the name of jesus , or his teachings , they are fixed on the old testament name of jehovah , and what he did in the old testament.

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Vidiot
5 days ago
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4
The Watch Tower's creation of 1914 CE
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 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 6 days ago
download this summary of the watch tower society and its 607/1914 debacle and view it on a (16:9) computer screen.. http://www.jwstudies.com/the_watch_tower_s_creation_of_1914_ce.pdf.

Atlantis
Wild_Thing
Magnum
6 days ago
ttdtt
30
Do you know what Rahab looked like?
by ttdtt in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 6 days ago
hello friends - here is a new area in the kids section of the jw website - learn how to draw rahab.. 1st - she was a prostitute of jericho.

could there be other characters to talk about with our kids?.

2nd - it says "learn how to draw rahab".

JRK
brandnew
Sabin
2 days ago
Luther bertrand
4
Prescription Drugs and the Fruitage of the Spirit?
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 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 7 days ago
does anyone have a meaningful response to the following question/points: the fruitage of the spirit found at gal.

5:22: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, mildness, kindness.

goodness, faith and self-control, in many way for many people can be increased through the use of anti-anxiety, anti-depressants, and a host of other pharma's.

blondie
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6 days ago
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3
The great Controversy ...E.G White Seventh Day Adventist
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 7 days ago
my sister call me today and told me she found this book in her mail slot and she wondered if.

it was  a book published by the wt.

lol.

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7 days ago
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Urgent assistance needed for Barbara and ARC!
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 8 days ago
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however we are in need of the following information:.

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Atlantis
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5 days ago
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How Should Anointed Christians View Themselves?
by jwdoctrine 2 days ago 13 Replies latest 2 days ago   watchtower bible
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jwdoctrine
jwdoctrine 2 days ago

In this coming Sunday's study article :”We Want to Go With You” and paragraph 5 we read :
“Those who partake of the emblems at the Memorial should carefully consider the warning found at1 Corinthians 11:27-29. (Read.) What point is the apostle Paul here making? An anointed Christian would partake unworthily if he did not maintain a good relationship with Jehovah. (Heb. 6:4-6; 10:26-29) Such a warning helps anointed Christians to remember that they have not yet taken hold of the reward. They need to continue to press on “toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God by means of Christ Jesus.”—Phil. 3:13-16.” (wt. 21/03/16 ,par 5)
This is an article written for those considering partaking from the emblems.The Watchtower is using Paul’s words to the Corinthians to stress the point of how seriously you should take this decision,in their effort to stop more from taking from the emblems they use the verses in 1 Corinthians out of context .Read here the rest of the article



 +1 / -0
prologos
prologos 2 days ago
There is only one "anointed" in that picture. how should he view himself? the only way he can, in a mirror obviously.
 +4 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 2 days ago

Latest WT messaging to 'anointed' and to everyone else...
1. Never ask an anointed about being anointed.
- Subtext - we know most are all batcrap crazy, and we don't want you to hear the crap they would say because you might question us the GB.
2. Anointed, shut up and sit down.
- Subtext - I know just a few years ago we at the GB had to respect you and you had some voice, now we just think you're all nuts - and there is only room for us 7 nuts at the top, so shut up and sit down and don't bother us.
 +8 / -0
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 2 days ago

Seeing as the GB now teach that the "evil slave" is hypothetical, thereby rendering Jesus' lesson useless, all "anointed" should view themselves as once saved, always saved. After all, if they cannot ever be the "evil slave", they cannot lose out on the reward.
Jesus' words must trump Paul's warning to the Corinthians. Either that, or the GB of the WTBTS is wrong yet again....
DD
 +1 / -0
SafeAtHome
SafeAtHome 2 days ago
The Jesus in that picture looks awfully Anglo white. And isn't that Ringo Starr on the right? Why doesn't WT at least portray the ethnicity correctly?
 +1 / -0
Sabin
Sabin 2 days ago

Safeathome, i agree with you. I always used to like the pictures of Jesus, a big man with good muscle definition & hair on his body. Then i think it may have been a couple of years ago came the memorial tract minus the hairy chest. I was mortified, one day they will portray him as a man who went for a back/sack & crack wax just to fit in with the generation.
 +3 / -0
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 2 days ago

Did "personal space" not exist back then? Also, I'm pretty sure that Jesus did some manscaping.
DD
 +1 / -0
Muddy Waters
Muddy Waters 2 days ago

Their Jesus is not looking very friendly here, he has such a weird expression on his face... Is he looking at Judas?
But John is certainly looking extra lovey-dovey here. The other disciple is looking at the bread like, "WTF? Bread/body? Wine/blood? What??" lol
The language in the paragraph mentioned sounds really hostile, like, "Those who partake... should *CAREFULLY CONSIDER the *WARNING*!!! found at blah blah blah scripture..." And then they repeat the word "warning" two sentences later. Like they really need to CAUTION people about not partaking. Buncha blowhards. They must not like those numbers going up in the Yearbooks....
 
Muddy Waters
Muddy Waters 2 days ago

Hahaha!! I got curious and looked up the Memorial day texts -- almost ALL of them are warning and cautioning and explaining how ONLY those who are "anointed" should partake... and how only those thusly "ENTITLED" should partake... that only these "approved" ones are "worthy" and how you would not want to partake unworthily.... On and on they go for close to a week.
They really do want to hammer this point home.
 
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 2 days ago


How Should Anointed Christians View Themselves?
An anointed Christian would partake unworthily
if he did not maintain a good relationship with Jehovah.....WatchTower
........Image result for communion...https://m.popkey.co/21fa6c/YNAWV_s-200x150.gif?c=popkey-web&p=hotpockets&i=hotpockets-brands&l=search&f=.gif
 

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How Should Anointed Christians View Themselves?
by jwdoctrine 2 days ago 13 Replies latest 2 days ago   watchtower bible
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prologos
prologos 2 days ago

Muddy Waters: "Hahaha!! I got curious and looked up the Memorial day texts. These texts (reprints from previous wt articles), are designed to confuse (Muddy the Waters) the readers about the distinction between New Covenant and Kingdom Covenant. The only connection of the Kingdom covenant and the Memorial is, that one of the two occasions on which it was brought up by Jesus happened after the supper, on the way to the garden, (the other was months earlier}. All followers of Jesus are supposed to be in the New Covenant, just as all Israelites, not just the kings, or priests were in the "old" covenant.
As if it mattered, with no talking snake. I am tempted to have the emblems passed by, over me from neighbour to neighbour besides me.
 +1 / -0
Room 215
Room 215 2 days ago
The agenda of these articles seems quite transparent: to stifle the inclination to partake, so as to reverse the embarrassing increases in partakers of recent years.
 
Slidin Fast
Slidin Fast 2 days ago

What a WT last Sunday. 19 paragraphs of attempted explanations, warnings navel gazing about the so called anointing by holy spirit.
At the end of it all, some people that claim to be convinced that they have had the call, a larger group not allowed to question them. Another group (of 7) who hold top trumps, can treat all the claimants with contempt but also have no evidence for their claim.
At the end of it all we have nothing, no evidence, no manifestation of anyone's special status. It's all snake oil producing plenty of babble with no substance whatsoever.
 +2 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 2 days ago
Again they take scriptures out of context. Paul was saying eat before the meal and don't get drunk that this meal was for a reason and not just to fill your stomach. Had nothing to do with being unworthy to eat of the bread and wine.
 +3 / -0

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Topic Summary
in this coming sunday's study article :”we want to go with you” and paragraph 5 we read :.
“those who partake of the emblems at the memorial should carefully consider the warning found at1 corinthians 11:27-29.
(read.



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2016-3-20-BOE!
by Atlantis 2 days ago 9 Replies latest 2 days ago   watchtower bible
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Atlantis
Atlantis 2 days ago

2016-3-20-BOE
.
TO APPLICANTS FOR THE SCHOOL FOR KINGDOM EVANGELIZERS
.
http://we.tl/bYFdsHRdFc
.
.
Atlantis!
 +1 / -0
Poztate
Poztate 2 days ago

Thanks Again Atlantis for keeping us up to date
I liked the part in the letter where they said not to apply unless 5 years had gone by since reinstatement from a Df'ing offence, three years since being reproved AND.... ONLY TWO YEARS since you viewed any pornography LOL
I noted the whole attitude of go where we tell you, do anything we say but don't expect us to help you out in any way.
Only the "true believers" or totally brain dead need apply
 +2 / -0
Atlantis
Atlantis 2 days ago

Poztate:
Yes, we noticed those points also and it is sad to think that there are people so mind controlled to actually be fooled into taking part.
But, we were all fooled by the Watchtower at one time or another. I was a 3rd generation born-in and had no choice until I finally woke up, and we hope that many others will wake up also.
If they keep taking money from JWs like they have been, people won't be able to afford to be a JW because, membership will require just to much money.
I don't see how some of the JW families are making ends meet now! And they just keep wanting more!
Atlantis!
 +1 / -0
pepperheart
pepperheart 2 days ago

All take and no give thats the watctower way
 +2 / -0
Atlantis
Atlantis 2 days ago

pepperheart:
You got that right!
.
Atlantis!
 +2 / -0
wannaexit
wannaexit 2 days ago


if they keep taking money from JWs like they have been, people won't be able to afford to be a JW because, membership will require just to much money.
I think there are enough of the old generation that that is still heavily supporting the watchtower. I am talking about folks like my parents in their 70's and 80's.
The younger generation of jw's just dont have it to give. They don't have any education and work at low-paying jobs barely keeping their own heads out of water. I know a lot of them live pay check to pay check and have lots of debts. How much can these really give.
 +1 / -0
Atlantis
Atlantis 2 days ago

wannaexit:
Yes, I agree, but you know a lot of the older ones are also seeing an organization that is difficult for them to recognize anymore. The organization they knew no longer exists. The younger JWs are doing a lot of things the older ones were taught was improper.
Bands on the platforms, line dancing at the Kingdom Halls, worldly style dancing after conventions, jewelry and everything else displaying JW-Dot-Org all over it. Many of the older ones agree that such things are practices of idolatry, and I have heard the older ones are living check-to-check also.
Lets face it, the Watchtower Society is falling apart and becoming in many ways, worse than the worldly churches of Christendom.
Money, money, money is the main theme and God's Kingdom is becoming a subject of the past. Their appearance to the outside world has become more important than the gospel.
Their properties are more important to them than the safety of a child's life. They counsel to call the authorities if the Kingdom Hall catches on fire, but refuse to do the same when a child has been molested..
Atlantis!.
 +5 / -0
jwleaks
jwleaks 2 days ago

THANK YOU! - ANON.
 
Syme
Syme 2 days ago

LOL, the time span for abstaining from pornography has now gone up to 2 years! Hilarious!

 
StarTrekAngel
StarTrekAngel 2 days ago
Is this letter going to be read to the congregation?
 

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N.H. Barbour As the "Evil Slave" Quote From "Blood on the Altar"
by JACOB Meza 2 days ago 4 Replies latest a day ago   watchtower bible
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JACOB Meza
JACOB Meza 2 days ago

I think the book Blood on the Altar, may have a misquote (or maybe it is just me reading it wrong).
P. 41, para. 1:
"Pastor Russell took the place of Mr. Barbour who became unfaithful and upon whom was fulfilled the prophecies of matt. 24:48-51..."
The book give the reference of the Zion's Watchtower July 15th, 1879, p. 8 (http://jv.somet.dk/tekster/WT_1879_07_01.pdf). I didn't see any evil slave reference there. Is the author of Blood on the Altar quoting Rutherford's later view?
 
Atlantis
Atlantis a day ago

Jacob:
The quote appears in the 1917-1918 Finished Mystery Book, See bottom of scan. But I didn't find it in the 1879 Watchtower either. The 1879 Watchtower refers to Barbour as (Brother B.) and John H. Paton is referred to as (Brother P.). Those references come from letters that were written by Russell and so forth about the split-up and money etc.
.
http://postimg.org/image/xgv2l0wer/
.
Atlantis!


 
Finkelstein
Finkelstein a day ago

I think Rutherford used this same evil slave description onto people who wanted to adhere to Russell's teachings
such as Pyramidology during the IBSA schism breaking apart upon his dropping some of Russell's theological
thoughts. Seems like whenever you want to demean someone for not supporting your own doctrines, you call
them down as being the " Evil Slave" class.

 
Atlantis
Atlantis a day ago

Finkelstein:
Seems like whenever you want to demean someone for not supporting your own doctrines, you call
them down as being the " Evil Slave" class.
--------------------------------------------------------
Yep! That's about the size of it! I remember when my brother who was a regular pioneer with the rest of us bought a Dodge Demon automobile. It wasn't long before he was being classified as part of the evil slave class.
Atlantis!
 
CubanGringo
CubanGringo a day ago
Am I wrong in remembering this being applied by Russell to his ex wife? I have a vague recollection of that occurring.
 

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Critical analysis of the WatchTower Bible & Tract Society publications and the bible
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James Mixon
17
If God is all powerful why did it take six days
by James Mixon in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 7 hours ago
if god is omnipotent (all powerful) why did he take six days (or six thousand years jw.org) to.

crete everything.

why not speak everything into existence all at once?

James Mixon
LisaRose
Simon
an hour ago
thedepressedsoul
22
They want to get rid of "anointed ones" - It's getting clear
by thedepressedsoul in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 11 hours ago
i've never met a group that turns on it's members like the jw's.

sister faithful that thinks she's anointed is now bat shit crazy with mental illness.

we all have known it's true, but now you have the wt, who put it in everyone's head that you can be anointed.

Finkelstein
OnTheWayOut
truthlover
2 hours ago
Doug Mason
3
Who Selected the Canon? Does “The Watchtower” Tell Us the Whole Story?
by Doug Mason in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 a day ago
at pages 27 to 29 of its article, does the bible tell us the whole story about jesus?, “the watchtower” of april 1, 2010 discusses the subject: “who selected the canon?”.

the watch tower claims that professor oskar skarsaune and professor kenneth berding provide support for its contention that the list of christian greek scriptures was a product of some first-century christians who were endowed with “superhuman abilities”, and that the canon was not established in the second century..

does “the watchtower” tell the whole story on who selected the canon?.

Crazyguy
Atlantis
Bugbear
20 hours ago
Atlantis
9
Board assistance for Debela!
by Atlantis in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 a day ago
friends, debela wrote to me several times requesting a video she says that i posted here:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5719452662366208/2-videos-if-you-want-them .

her description at the bottom of the page sounds like a watchtower edition and not a video.

neat blue dog
Atlantis
neat blue dog
9 hours ago
Atlantis
12
2016-3-18-BOE-Discontinuing Feature Length DVD and Audio CD Production!
by Atlantis in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 a day ago
2016-3-18-boe.. re: discontinuing feature-length dvd and audio cd production.

.. http://we.tl/cpevenkiz2.

.. .. petra!.

BluesBrother
PaintedToeNail
LevelThePlayingField
8 hours ago
Backinthebox
7
Splane "Bible writer's not logical"
by Backinthebox in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 2 days ago
bethelite asked splane since mt 25 is set in the great trib because half way through mt 24 events turn to the great trib, does that not mean the generation starts when the great tribulation starts and has nothing to do with 1914. splane replied the bible writers were not logical they would pick a topic then randomly go back to another topic.

AnneB
Crazyguy
Backinthebox
a day ago
JACOB Meza
4
N.H. Barbour As the "Evil Slave" Quote From "Blood on the Altar"
by JACOB Meza in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 2 days ago
i think the book blood on the altar, may have a misquote (or maybe it is just me reading it wrong).. p. 41, para.

"pastor russell took the place of mr. barbour who became unfaithful and upon whom was fulfilled the prophecies of matt.

the book give the reference of the zion's watchtower july 15th, 1879, p. 8 (http://jv.somet.dk/tekster/wt_1879_07_01.pdf).

Finkelstein
Atlantis
CubanGringo
a day ago
jwdoctrine
13
How Should Anointed Christians View Themselves?
by jwdoctrine in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 2 days ago
in this coming sunday's study article :”we want to go with you” and paragraph 5 we read :.

“those who partake of the emblems at the memorial should carefully consider the warning found at1 corinthians 11:27-29.

(read.

Room 215
Slidin Fast
Crazyguy
2 days ago
Atlantis
9
2016-3-20-BOE!
by Atlantis in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 2 days ago
2016-3-20-boe.

.. to applicants for the school for kingdom evangelizers.. http://we.tl/byfdshrdfc.

.. .. atlantis!.

jwleaks
Syme
StarTrekAngel
2 days ago
Luther bertrand
Does anyone have any experience with IAT's?
by Luther bertrand in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 2 days ago
i would like to create an iat for those who have been around jw's.

if you know what an iat is and how to build one and would like to be apart of this project/ pm me.


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