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Our Kingdom Ministry 2009 tells sick & infirm NOT to view telephone hook-up as convenient alternative to being “personally present” at KH!
by LUKEWARM 53 Replies latest watchtower bible
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LUKEWARM
LUKEWARM
I am feeling sick after reading the question box - it's so cold and unfeeling toward those who use the telephone to listen to congregation meetings.
The WTS desire to control their weakest members - the infirm and chronically ill - by guilting them into "putting forth the effort to be personally present " at the kingdom hall is disgusting.
They are heartless bastards...
________________________________________
Question Box:
Why is there a need for good judgement in connection with the use of a telephone hook-up for congregation meetings?
Many congregations have made it possible for individuals who at times are unable to attend congregation meetings at the kingdom hall because of illness or some other unavoidable circumstance to listen to the meeting at home by means of a telephone hook-up. Ensuring that this loving provision is used by those who are truly in need requires good judgement and careful organization. Hence, the elders overseeing such an arrangement would want to organize and monitor its use so that "all things take place decently and by arrangement." 1 Cor. 14:40.
Elders will see to it that priority is given to publishers in their congregation with chronic illness or infirmity or who are otherwise shut-in. A publisher temporarily ill or incapacitated, or a progressive Bible student who may be shut-in, might likewise benefit from this provision and be included in the attendance count. Where there are not enough telephone lines to accommodate those with a legitimate need, perhaps other arrangements, such as providing them with a recording of the meeting, can be made.
Of course, nothing can compare to the benefits derived from being personally present at our meetings. Our direct association with our brothers results in "an interchange of encouragement" and helps new ones better appreciate the need to attend. When we are present at our meetings, we absorb far more from demonstrations, the elders are able to give us personal assistance, and we experience firsthand the warm love of the brotherhood. True indeed are the sentiments of one elderly sister who, after receiving a hug as she was exiting the kingdom hall exclaimed: "You can't get this over the phone line!" - Rom. 1:11,12
Like Anna "who was never missing from the temple", today, many of our older ones are regularly on hand at Christian meetings as their health and circumstances allow. (Luke 2:36,37) While using the telephone hook-up when necessary, they do not view it as a convenient alternative to attending meetings at the Kingdom Hall. In imitation of their fine example, may we continue to delight in putting forth the effort to be personally present at our meetings as we worship our great God, Jehovah. - Ps. 95:1-3, 6; 122:1.
slimboyfat
slimboyfat
You can imagine Jaracz banging his fist on the table when he heard the "slackers" were using the old phone-up-instead-of-attend-the-meeting trick.
yknot
yknot
grrrrr....... most of my KH hook-ups are due to those bastards doing away with the daytime bookstudy! It just isn't safe for these of the most dedicated souls to be driving at night!!!
Teddie J, Jack, & Pierce wouldn't be doing so well if they were to return to the lives of regular publishers!
ufo1
ufo1
Of course, nothing can compare to the benefits derived from being personally present at our meetings. Our direct association with our brothers results in "an interchange of encouragement" and helps new ones better appreciate the need to attend. When we are present at our meetings, we absorb far more from demonstrations, the elders are able to give us personal assistance, and we experience firsthand the warm love of the brotherhood. True indeed are the sentiments of one elderly sister who, after receiving a hug as she was exiting the kingdom hall exclaimed: "You can't get this over the phone line!" - Rom. 1:11,12
Elders are able to give personal assistance? We experience firsthand the warm love of the brotherhood?
I thought the Bible said that the sheppard would leave the 99 to find the 1. What is more loving, going to visit and care for the sick or inferm, or wait for them to come back and prove their loyality and then tell them "We missed you".
I'm all for the hugs and human contact as it is so important, however if some one is trully sick I don't want to hug them. After all you can't catch a bug over the phone line.
Black Sheep
Black Sheep
The WTS desire to control their weakest members - the infirm and chronically ill - by guilting them into "putting forth the effort to be personally present " at the kingdom hall is disgusting.
Don't stretch the truth. It gives us Apostates a bad look.
Elders will see to it that priority is given to publishers in their congregation with chronic illness or infirmity or who are otherwise shut-in.
LUKEWARM
LUKEWARM
Black Sheep
Seems to me they are talking out of both sides of their mouth - "priority" on the one side but then towards the end of the article they don't want them on the end of the phone at all times - they want them at the meeting "as their health and circumstances allow"...
"Like Anna "who was never missing from the temple", today, many of our older ones are regularly on hand at Christian meetings as their health and circumstances allow. (Luke 2:36,37) While using the telephone hook-up when necessary,they do not view it as a convenient alternative to attending meetings at the Kingdom Hall. In imitation of their fine example, may we continue to delight in putting forth the effort to be personally present at our meetings as we worship our great God, Jehovah. - Ps. 95:1-3, 6; 122:1."
jambon1
jambon1
Is anyone really surprised at this?
The WTS has guilted men, women & children for decades. Why should old/sick/infirm people get away with it.
The organisation is rotten to the core & when it spits out this kind of utter bullshit I pause every single time & appreciate just how much it means to me not to have to be a part of it all.
Horrible.
blondie
blondie
The congregations around here have a phone system that allows unlimited call-ins on an automated system. All you need is phone number and password. Now everyone who wants to get password and call in has to meet with an elder and be vetted each time they want to use the system. One brother told me that his parents (in their 90's) have to personally check in each time, he can't do it for them. Attendance has dropped off as many choose to stay home and not go through the hoops.
Black Sheep
Black Sheep
What concerns me is fellow Apostates waving this OKM around as some sort of evidence that the WT is a hard hearted pack of bar stewards when the article proves nothing of the sort.
The WT usually leaves themselves loopholes and this advisory is no different. I certainly won't be discussing this OKM with my family.
sir82
sir82
In years past, phoning into the meeting was limited by technology - at the Kingdom Hall I attended in the 90's there was a maximum of 4 lines that could call in.
Now, throughout most if not all of the US, there is a teleconferencing service (owned & operated by "brothers") that allows dozens to call in. There is a limit, but I don't recall what it is, maybe 30 or 40. Now, in our congregation, there are regularly 10,12, 15, maybe even 20 who call in to listen to the meetings. I have to imagine that is pretty typical.
As SBF noted above, it is very easy to imagine the hardliners railing long & hard about "slackers" and "laziness" and "taking the easy way out". The higher up the JW chain of command you go, the more contempt you find for the "little people".
undercover
undercover
What concerns me is fellow Apostates waving this OKM around as some sort of evidence that the WT is a hard hearted pack of bar stewards when the article proves nothing of the sort.
I respectfully disagree to a point. This is typical cult BS. It's slyly worded but upon closer inspection their true motive shows. They cannot control people when they aren't at the meetings. It's not just the talks or the so-called information in those talks. It's the entire experience that keeps you indoctrinated. The peer pressure of other JWs in attendance. The elders looking over your shoulder. You can't get these sitting at home, drifting off to sleep while some 12 year old reads Numbers chapter 3.
Notice that they actually say in the article "nothing compares to being at the meetings personally". This is the sly method of using guilt to pressure people to not rely on the phone system but drag their sorry ass to the hall.
No, it's not the scandal of the decade, but it is one in a long list of examples of how the Society uses guilt to control the flock.
Another way of looking at it... How many articles that mention the infrim and elderly actually talk about charity and the congregation looking after them and feeding them, and assisiting them? Very few, if any. Christian charity among their own is not important as meeting attendance.
I do agree that this isn't the article to show active JWs just what a cult the JWs are. Instead it's more proof to outsiders and ex-JWs how manipulative the Society can be when trying to control its members.
dozy
dozy
Where the numbers who can dial in are restricted it can be a bit of a nightmare for the elders to determine who is "worthy" & who isn't. With the ageing JW membership (in the western world) and the increasing number of JWs with ME / chronic fatigue or other undefinable illnesses and allergies (real or imagined) , in some congregations there are 20 or 30 "listener ins".
I did notice at the last district assembly I attended that there were numerous JWs sitting (or sleeping) in their cars listening to the program on the radio. Beats sitting on a hard plastic seat between Sister Flatulence & Brother B.O. I'm sure the writing committee have their pencils sharpened to condemn this method of slacking as well.
Mary
Mary
Do they truly not have anything else to worry about at Crooklyn than this bullshit?
milola
milola
I am so sorry lukewarm, but I do not see what you apparently see in this article. It looks to me that they have no problem with shutins or temp. ill people using the phone. I read it to say that they think one gets more out of a meeting if they are there in person. Once again, I am sorry but if you can point out exactly what I am missing I would appreciate it.
And while I am ranting, I think there is plenty wrong with the Jehovah's Witnesses to not resort to trivial complaints.
nelly136
nelly136
***or a progressive Bible student who may be shut-in,***
hot lines to the local prison?
brother and sister incontinent.( hell theyre not getting in my car!) give em a phone line dammit.
dgp
dgp
I agree with Undercover. What happens is that they want the people to attend the meeting. If they allowed everyone to just call or use a teleconference, how many wouldn't take advantage of the chance NOT TO BE THERE, and fake they are listening? How would they prevent people from having an easy time fading? If the sick have a right to stay home and call in, how many will pretend to be sick? This is a move to control you people.
Just for the sake of comparison, the Catholic Chuch has let the sick to listen to the mass on the radio. There are regular broadcasts in every country. And the pope gives his "urbi et orbi" mass, and you're supposed to benefit from it just by turning on the TV. In every parish, there are groups organized for the specific purpose of visiting the sick and the elderly. A priest will take the host home if you need it. My purpose with this is not to say that the Catholic Church is best, or to find fault with individual witnesses. My purpose is to show the obvious: that it is possible to act otherwise if you just want to. They don't care after the sick.
They just want to make damned sure that only the very sick will miss a meeting. Only those who just can't be there will miss a meeting, and, even in that case, they will HAVE to listen to it.
blondie
blondie
Just to emphasize the point I made, the elders in this area control the password. They change it frequently. Even if you have the phone number, you can't access the meeting without the password. You can't get the password unless you go to an elder to get it. You can't get the password unless the elder judges that your situation warrants it. And you have to do this for every meeting. It is proving to be quite an irritant for older jws and the family that help them. The older jw has to make the request directly, their adult jw children cannot do it for them. I guess too many people were calling in that the elders did not think needed to.
minimus
minimus
My mom has been on the phone for years. She probably goes to the Memorial and maybe the Special Talk if she can. This will make her feel like sh&t.
I think it's also about $$$. If people aren't there, they aren't giving.
Mad Sweeney
Mad Sweeney
The motivation for this is twofold.
One, as mentioned, is the control issue. Indoctrination depends a lot on peer pressure that you can only receive as part of the group.
Two, which I didn't notice being mentioned in the thread is the $money$ issue. If you are phoning in from home you have no access to the contribution box.
WTWizard
WTWizard
Well, that leaves the Internet. And that's how I get my "spiritual food", usually months ahead of when the active witlesses even hear about it. And, not only the hounders can't do a damn thing about it, but I get to make whatever comments I feel like that will undermine what the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger is trying to tell me.
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/ Our Kingdom Ministry 2009 tells sick & infirm NOT to view telephone hook-up as convenient alternative to being “personally present” at KH!
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Our Kingdom Ministry 2009 tells sick & infirm NOT to view telephone hook-up as convenient alternative to being “personally present” at KH!
by LUKEWARM 53 Replies latest watchtower bible
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watson
watson
Mini and Mad beat me to it..$$
Room 215
Room 215
.... and once you're at the KH, they'll often place signs on the last two rows of seats "to save these for the families with small children" (that's the case at the local KH where I live. What's next for the flock ... cattle prods?
rocketman
rocketman
Undercover wrote:
"Another way of looking at it... How many articles that mention the infrim and elderly actually talk about charity and the congregation looking after them and feeding them, and assisiting them? Very few, if any. Christian charity among their own is not important as meeting attendance."
This is where, I think, the religion really fails in this particular matter. And I also agree w Undercover that the KM statements are not the biggest deal, but do show the sly, manipulative techiniques used to guilt people.
But essentially, they don't want people just sitting home and listening in unless there's a good reason. That in itself is not so terrible. I can imagine there are some able-bodied jws who might kind of lazily rely on the phone system.
nelly136
nelly136
the $$££ is a good point as to why they'd be reluctant to let people use it too much, if theyre providing phone lines at a cost to the kingdom hall then thats going out and not coming in. that would be an inconvinience to the coffers.
contributions are for real estate and printing press fodder, although the halls are all registered as charitable entities, they pay their own bills and then the rest is designated back to the borg.
given the choice probably more would stay at home and listen than turn up at all, the idea is they're expected to give, not to receive
room, i thought half the fun of the meeting was making us kids sit near the front under the glare of the speaker so if we played up, we had the loving provision ......long walk of shame (while everyone gloated) to toilet out back for our beatings. oh and the walk of shame back, when you were trying hard not to cry and everyone could see you were a suitable glowing shade of red blotchy'n' puffy.
besty
besty
In print:
Hence, the elders overseeing such an arrangement would want to organize and monitor its use so that "all things take place decently and by arrangement." 1 Cor. 14:40.
In practice:
the elders in this area control the password. They change it frequently. Even if you have the phone number, you can't access the meeting without the password. You can't get the password unless you go to an elder to get it. You can't get the password unless the elder judges that your situation warrants it. And you have to do this for every meeting. It is proving to be quite an irritant for older jws and the family that help them. The older jw has to make the request directly, their adult jw children cannot do it for them.
ninja
ninja
is the brother who sets the phone line up called the kingdom hall hooker?
chickpea
chickpea
just another way to keep the dic in dictator
AuntBee
AuntBee
Luke: Maybe they don't want opposers/apostates/researchers listening in. Many have observed that things are said verbally at meetings and assemblies that are not put into print.
When i first started researching WT, and reading the pubs, this was one thing that really struck me .The utter hopelessness, guilt and sadness this whole system must induce in people who are already suffering physically and emotionally, and would never be able to even keep up with this scene, let alone get privileges, and respect, etc. Maybe i'm sensitive to this because my husband is disabled, and sometimes cannot even go out or drive for weeks at a time. -- Even if a person has sub-standard energy level, etc, this religion could be devastating, because it's so performance based. If you were disabled, i think it would feel like a parapalegic attending some extreme church that teaches everyone is healed, unless they don't have enough faith!!
logic
logic
The scripture I often refer to for any self rightious jw is James 1:27.
OUTLAW
OUTLAW
Why would anyone..
Want to miss a WBT$ Meeting?
Old and Sick People are Whiners!
.................... ...OUTLAW
restrangled
restrangled
Too funny....my mom told me this morning she was too exhausted to go to the KH last night so did the phone line hook up. She conked out during the first song, and woke up during the concluding prayer.
As Sylvia says: Tee Hee Hee!
r.
keyser soze
keyser soze
Don't stretch the truth. It gives us Apostates a bad look.
I agree. I don't think the article is targeting those are sick and infirm, but rather those who aren't. This seems a bit petty to me. There are plenty of legitimately stupid things the society writes without having to distort their words.
BluesBrother
BluesBrother
I know someone who has just been granted the "privilege" of access to the telephone hook up line. She can attend on her "good days", but misses a lot due to poor health.
Trouble is that the congo seem to be technophobes and the line is frequently unavailable. It cuts off after an hour and you have to re dial, to save them money.
She says that it would never be an easy option. How would you like to sit at home for 2 hours with Bro Drone going on and on in your ear?. It may be better if one had a speaker phone, but few do. Of course you cannot answer up.
Regarding the article I think we should not scream "outrage!" - it is more balanced than some posters make out, but it is not without blame either . It does minimize the difficulties and lacks compassion for those who need it. The tone could be a lot warmer and commend those use it ....
sir82
sir82
Restrangled's post brings another thought to mind....
One of the important myths that the WTS promotes is that somehow the meetings are "refreshing".
How many times have you heard commented, or read in the WT, that "if you're feeling tired, just go to the meeting! By the end, you'll feel much better than you did before!"
Of course, that's a load of horse-puckey, but the WTS promotes it anyway.
But what if suddenly, due to better technology, 10%, 15%, 20% of the congregation can now choose to stay home and just listen in.....and the rest of the poor suckers at the Kingdom Hall notice this ("hey, they said the attendance was 85, but I didn't see more than 60 people here")....well, that's pretty striking evidence that the statement "the meetings will make you feel better" is patently false.
And of course, all it takes is one crack in the dam..."hey, if what they say about 'refreshing meetings' is wrong, what else might they have wrong?"
Gorki
Gorki
Why not broadcast the meetings live on Internet open for everyone? Many churches do that and gain new members.
truthseekeriam
truthseekeriam
Funny, We actually called in the other night to listen in and the local needs talk was just on this...LOL
So I hung up and looked at my husband and said..."we tried"
darth frosty
darth frosty
Well you cant get the full benefit of the conditioning if your at home. You have to be at the meeting with the mello music that puts you slowly into a hypnotic trance (never noticed that there is not one uptempo song in the songbook.) The speaker in the center and reader to the side to create dual focus and the mike cariers moving back and forth all to aide in the side to side eye movement, while the BORG conditions you to believe their BS.
bennyk
bennyk
Blondie stated:
the elders in this area control the password. They change it frequently. Even if you have the phone number, you can't access the meeting without the password. You can't get the password unless you go to an elder to get it. You can't get the password unless the elder judges that your situation warrants it. And you have to do this for every meeting. It is proving to be quite an irritant for older jws and the family that help them. The older jw has to make the request directly, their adult jw children cannot do it for them.
This could increase rather than restrict the possibilities for fading...
1914BS
1914BS
The telephone meetings are a perfect way to fade
monkeyman
monkeyman
It's not about the $. It's about control. The cold hearted bastards love this stuff because it gives them carte blanche to have a meeting to judge whose worthy and whose not.
Interestingly, it's the Service Dept, headed by T Jaracz who writes the KM, not Writing Dept, headed by Barr, I think. You can tell the difference in style. You'd never find such drivel in the WT. I read somewhere on this site that these two camps dont like each other.
It's the same with the signs on the back two rows. That was in the KM also. Control, Control, Control. It now gives them something to do.
I know where the elders had a 3 hr meeting on a Sunday to discuss where the congregation should sit. They also posted MS to stand by those 2 rows like guards to block anyone who "violated" the signage. Nice huh?
Couldn't wait to go to the meeting to feel the love.
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Topic Summary
i am feeling sick after reading the question box - it's so cold and unfeeling toward those who use the telephone to listen to congregation meetings.. .
the wts desire to control their weakest members - the infirm and chronically ill - by guilting them into "putting forth the effort to be personally present " at the kingdom hall is disgusting.. .
they are heartless bastards.... ________________________________________.
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/ Our Kingdom Ministry 2009 tells sick & infirm NOT to view telephone hook-up as convenient alternative to being “personally present” at KH!
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Our Kingdom Ministry 2009 tells sick & infirm NOT to view telephone hook-up as convenient alternative to being “personally present” at KH!
by LUKEWARM 53 Replies latest watchtower bible
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DaCheech
DaCheech
they count the people on the phone as "attendance"
so, if they would play that card on me, I would play my cards and not come in at all!
they control the ones that let them control them!
they don't let me phone in? then no attendance and f&%&ck them!
kurtbethel
kurtbethel
This is not the behavior one would expect from an organization charged to preach the kingdom to all the nations. At the very least the IT person at the KH would set up streaming audio of each meeting, and those who are worth their salt could stream video and have archived podcasts.
The telephone was invented in the 19th century you know!
The Oracle
The Oracle
HOLY CULT, BATMAN!
Does anyone still think this is not a cult? Ho-chee-mama!
The Oracle
SirNose586
SirNose586
When I was an MS, there was a family which would often call in to request the tie-in line (in the days before the automated password system). I don't think they were sick as much as stressed out and embarassed; the mother could barely control her screaming infant, and probably just wanted to experience the meeting without the heads turning around to glare at her.
But now you must never "phone it in"! COME TO YOUR MEETINGS, LEAVE YOUR COMFORTABLE HOUSE....
choosing life
choosing life
The phone hookups for meetings have really changed. I used to use it for a while and it was always a fiasco. There were very few meetings where I did not get cut off and have to phone back in, sometimes more than once.
I also had to use the three way calling on my phone and hookup a couple of others with me. One man ALWAYS fell asleep and snored loudly through each meeting. I had a mute button, but he didn't.
Last I heard, the older ladies were kind of fighting over who was sicker and got to use the phone, as there was a limited number available. Some got their feelings hurt as they were not judged sick (worthy) enough and were denied access.
At the same time, the older ladies couldn't find anyone to give them a ride to the meeting and did not want to drive at night. The lack of concern for the sick and elderly is shameful.
Billen76
Billen76
5 years ago, I as an still eager MS suggested to an elder in the congregation, that we arranged phone hook-up's and internet transmission. The elder, who btw was pot and pan with Bethel and lived free of charge in the appartment of our KH, looked at me as I had said something highly suspicious. As I had really bad motives and tried to undermine everything.
It is about control, as always. They, as always, instills bad conscience in those, that tries to use the phone-hookup: "Do you REALLY need to" "Someone may be needing it MORE than you" "In Africa a sister traveled 30 miles, swam across rivers, fougth her way through the jungle, wrestled with lions and ran from gepards, just to attend a meeting by being there in person. Isn't that INSPIRING!!" "What will YOU do to attend meetings in person?" ... and you goes
As always, the witnesses are treated as they were small norty children that needs to be corrected. "If you do not eat your meat, you do not please Jehova and Harmageddon will come an take you!"
I guess GB knows very well, the flock needs their regular hypnosis to not start get the feeling "somethings not quite right here".
Snoozy
Snoozy
When my FIL was sick with bone cancer they would tape the meetings for him and bring them over.
My MIL has since broke her hip and it never mended right. I am sure she either has her daughter tape the meetings or does the phone thing. She is losing her eyesight as well so I don't think she could do the phone thing alone.
When I was going we had a few that came that were sick. One brother had both legs removed because of diabetes..he was in pain and yet his wife pushed him into the meetings in a wheelchair.
Another brother had cancer and I would see him come and be in such pain he would shake in his chair. It was hard to see. His pain was so great I saw him in the Drs office once with another brother that brought him in the office for a morphine shot.
They were taught as I was to endure all the pain you could for Jehovah..it proved your loyalty to him.
And I was stupid/gullable enough to fall for it.
Kinda pisses you off when you think about it and some of the stuff you went through.
Snoozy.
Mrs. Peck
Mrs. Peck
Ummm......I don't think that is what they are implying in all fairness, there are always the freeloaders and people who would take advantage of any convenience offered them. Just my opinion........
Sharpie
Sharpie
Well it's simple. There are no contribution boxes at home. So get to the Hall. EVEN IF YOU'RE SICK lol
FlyingHighNow
FlyingHighNow
Hence, the elders overseeing such an arrangement would want to organize and monitor its use so that "all things take place decently and by arrangement." 1 Cor. 14:40.
Most witnesses I knew wouldn't call because there was heavy, cruel gossip about those who did, especially if someone was spotted uptown going to the doctor or picking up an Rx.
Snoozy
Snoozy
Sharpie, don't forget about the elderly that are getting ready to kick off, they need them at the KH so they can influence them to leave them their money!
Snoozy
hoser
hoser
They are missing out on a money making scheme. Just figure out a way to have a 1-900 # for the kingdom hall hookup. Charge a modest fee say $.50 or a dollar per meeting. Blame it on the telephone company and fill your coffers that way.
no wear and tear on the carpets and chairs and the money still rolling in.
hoser
wha happened?
wha happened?
this is a good thread to ressurect. It really details how little the WT thinks of the individual, and is only concerned about keeping the person close to keep tabs.
Pterist
Pterist
And they accept an invisible presence willingly !
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i am feeling sick after reading the question box - it's so cold and unfeeling toward those who use the telephone to listen to congregation meetings.. .
the wts desire to control their weakest members - the infirm and chronically ill - by guilting them into "putting forth the effort to be personally present " at the kingdom hall is disgusting.. .
they are heartless bastards.... ________________________________________.
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/ Can You Reach Out to an Unbelieving Mate? - KM November 2010
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Can You Reach Out to an Unbelieving Mate? - KM November 2010
by jgnat 5 years ago 69 Replies latest 5 years ago jw friends
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jgnat
jgnat 5 years ago
Just wondering, for other "Unbelieving Mates" who visit this site, how many of you fielded spousal interference this week? For those of you who don't keep up on WT news any more, the November issue of the Kingdom Ministry contained the above titled article, with a few "helpful suggestions". I give credit to my hubby that he respected my stand before and after the meeting, even as he harbored a faint hope that the sainted words of the Kingdom Ministry would reach out and knock me to my "senses".
In summary, the "suggestions" include patience, don't bring up religious arguments, show through your actions and friendliness that the "unbelieving mate"'s prejudices are unfounded, and if all else fails, get them when facing health problems or other crises.
The worst I fielded was directly after the meeting, when hubby asked me what it would take to join the Watchtower Society. I told him a frontal lobotomy.
The charm of my hubby is that I had to explain what a frontal lobotomy was. "Well, there's not much use of getting that done," he replied.
jgnat
jgnat 5 years ago
I also credit hubby with sharing his KM with me so that I could accurately represent the article today. He first resisted, knowing I would be sharing it (mocking it, his words) on an "apostate" site. When I told him I just wanted to share experiences with others, he got the article for me.
Nickolas
Nickolas 5 years ago
Thanks, jgnat. I had wondered what just happened. Your post explains it.
jgnat
jgnat 5 years ago
Yes, I used to wonder at the wild fluctuations in attitude and behavior by my hubby after the meetings. I finally caught on that he briefly picks up the flavour of the meeting, then gradually returns to his natural self throughout the week. I started keeping an eye out for articles targetting "unbelievers" (me).
It has been helpful fading to three a week (the midweek meeting, field service, and Sunday). There are greater gaps between, allowing hubby's natural self to shine.
wasblind
wasblind 5 years ago
Hello there Jgnat,
nice to here from you , the part of your post that caught my attention was :" and if all else fails, get them when facing health problems or other crises."
they are in the "get em when their down " mode aren't they.
Yep that's the WTS get them when they are not thinkin' straight
Jgnat, was that a direct quote ? or your view, if it's your view I'm
totally in agreement
Nickolas
Nickolas 5 years ago
I questioned that as well.
jgnat
jgnat 5 years ago
In all fairness, here's a direct quote, "An unbeliever who has not been receptive to Bible discussion may listen to Scriptural encouragement when he is in the hospital or encounters serious healh problems. If a divided household experiences a crisis, such as the death of a family member, the elders may invite the unbeliever to sit in when they give comfort to the family."
Yup, get them when they are down.
Still wouldn't work on me. I know what I believe and why I believe. It would take a full frontal lobotomy for me not to care where I worship.
Nickolas
Nickolas 5 years ago
Now, we wouldn't call that manipulative, would we? That quote gives me the creeps.
moshe
moshe 5 years ago
I wonder how the elders would befriend the Jewish spouse of a JW ? Would they come over for a Hanukkah party and eat potato latkes? Spin the dreidel and win some chocolate gelt candy coins? Light a candle on the Hanukkah menorah? Its funny to the extreme.
Nickolas
Nickolas 5 years ago
Oy, dots zo fonny. You should go out and get a yob telling yokes you funny you.
jgnat
jgnat 5 years ago
O, don't get me started on manipulation. My (non-JW) mother is a master at it so I am immune to it's charms. A pioneer sister suggested that I would be a more supportive wife if I joined. Hah. I don't need to be a cheerleader, faking for a team I don't believe in, to prove my love.
I painted an "ideal" scenario for my hubby to prove my point. I would join the society and as a good Jehovah's Witness wife, I would quit my job and go in to full time pioneering. He would have to work more than his part-time job, and support the family. No more restaurants. We would lose our house to bankruptcy and become wards of the state, living in state-sponsored subsidized housing. We would have to sell his large collection of sports memorabilia and our electronic toys. He blanched and changed the subject.
Ding
Ding 5 years ago
"He blanched and changed the subject."
He didn't tell you it wouldn't be a problem because the paradise earth is just around the corner???
jgnat
jgnat 5 years ago
Ding, hubby does bring up the short time we have left quite often. We have a tacit agreement in our family that he is in charge of short-term plans and I am in charge of the long term ones. That way we're covered.
Moshe, I see the problem right away. The "Job's comfort" that an elder may try to provide would only work on families where there is some sort of Christian orientation. The Witness message just does not work without a bible in hand.
whereami
whereami 5 years ago
No wonder the wifey was extra nice to me this week!!!
I knew something was up. Thanks for the heads up jgnat.
Nickolas
Nickolas 5 years ago
He blanched and changed the subject.
Yeah. Cuts both ways. My wife enjoys the lifestyle of the wife of a retired corporate exec, but she seems to believe she would have no trouble giving it all up in a heartbeat for Jehovah. She's always the best dressed one at the meetings and always one of the most, if not the most wealthy women in her congregation. No way she'll ever have to worry about it, though, so the observation is only of academic value.
Finally-Free
Finally-Free 5 years ago
If a divided household experiences a crisis, such as the death of a family member, the elders may invite the unbeliever to sit in when they give comfort to the family.
This is almost a backhanded acknowledgement that they are aware that facts, logic, and reason can't support their beliefs. Overwhelming someone who is in an emotionally vunerable state probably accounts for most of their converts.
W
Nickolas
Nickolas 5 years ago
It really is despicable, finally-free.
TD
TD 5 years ago
"An unbeliever who has not been receptive to Bible discussion..."
"Bible discussion" strikes me as a code phrase for something far more specific
Nickolas
Nickolas 5 years ago
I am absolutely on your page, TD.
jgnat
jgnat 5 years ago
The short study I did have, we mutually agreed after several sessions that I wasn't "ready". If the person is not complaint enough to submit to the program, they are dropped like a hot potato.
There was a much bigger danger that I could infect the study leader with new thoughts.
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/ Can You Reach Out to an Unbelieving Mate? - KM November 2010
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Can You Reach Out to an Unbelieving Mate? - KM November 2010
by jgnat 5 years ago 69 Replies latest 5 years ago jw friends
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tiffy12
tiffy12 5 years ago
Didn't work in my house. Husband came home from meeting with the same attitude. I wonder if he is in some kind of trouble at the hall. I know he isn't allowed to pray, the only priviledge he has left is being a attendant once a month. He told me awhile ago that the elders would never come to the house because I had the truth and left 25 years ago. So much for reaching out to an unbelieving mate
Nickolas
Nickolas 5 years ago
Tick, tick, tick. I wonder if the WTS can hear it?
wasblind
wasblind 5 years ago
I"m back Jgnat,
I got the same understanding that you did from the direct quote
thanks for bringin' that to our attention
wasblind
wasblind 5 years ago
The WTS, has been watching Animal Planet TV,
The lions search out the weak as prey, now you tell
me that ain't the Devil in disguise. Yep, get you when
your not thinkin' straight, and then when they got you
keep you from thinkin' straight.
agonus
agonus 5 years ago
Now, by "unbelievers", do they just mean unbelievers that were ALWAYS unbelievers (i.e. when the JW or soon-to-be JW spouse married them), or does this mean unbelievers who were formerly believers? (i.e. apostates, faders, inactive, what have ya). 'Cause if they're changing their tune, my ex might read this article and actually wonder if she did right by Jehovah by divorcing me...
NAAAH!!!
tec
tec 5 years ago
The worst I fielded was directly after the meeting, when hubby asked me what it would take to join the Watchtower Society. I told him a frontal lobotomy.
The charm of my hubby is that I had to explain what a frontal lobotomy was.
I just had to say how much I loved reading this. I also think its funny that everyone's jw spouse is being extra nice now :smile:
Tammy
Nickolas
Nickolas 5 years ago
The WTS, has been watching Animal Planet TV,
The lions search out the weak as prey, now you tell
me that ain't the Devil in disguise. Yep, get you when
your not thinkin' straight, and then when they got you
keep you from thinkin' straight.
Amen. Nothing more to be said.
agonus
agonus 5 years ago
I apologize. If my post doth offend, may this edit feelings mend.
Nickolas
Nickolas 5 years ago
No offense taken at all.
agonus
agonus 5 years ago
I believe I've struck it:
I do not like green eggs and ham.
I do not like them, sim-i-an.
I do not like them in a blimp,
I do not like them with a chimp.
I do not like them in a cage,
I do not like them on a stage.
I don't eat them while throwing feces,
I don't eat with endangered species.
And this will end my posts of spam,
Thank you, thank you, Simian.
Nickolas
Nickolas 5 years ago
good point agonus. :oD
agonus
agonus 5 years ago
I guess that's the closest thing to something nice I could think of tonight.
I'll try to do better.
agonus
agonus 5 years ago
I think I can safely declare this thread officially derailed
Nickolas
Nickolas 5 years ago
Not at all. You are doing great.
agonus
agonus 5 years ago
Sure, but, you know, I wasn't really on your case, just being my typical dipshit self
Nickolas
Nickolas 5 years ago
Oh, I know. I actually admire your brain. Just having some fun.
agonus
agonus 5 years ago
I didn't use to be like this, you know...
"I used to be such a sweet sweet thing...
Till they got a hold of me...
I opened doors for little old ladies...
I helped the blind to see..."
Nickolas
Nickolas 5 years ago
What's that from, agnosis?
agonus
agonus 5 years ago
Dunno, eh, I'm not from your neck of the woods
agonus
agonus 5 years ago
Not familiar with Uncle Alice? Oh, you're a Canuck for sure! :wink:
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Topic Summary
just wondering, for other "unbelieving mates" who visit this site, how many of you fielded spousal interference this week?
for those of you who don't keep up on wt news any more, the november issue of the kingdom ministry contained the above titled article, with a few "helpful suggestions".
i give credit to my hubby that he respected my stand before and after the meeting, even as he harbored a faint hope that the sainted words of the kingdom ministry would reach out and knock me to my "senses".. in summary, the "suggestions" include patience, don't bring up religious arguments, show through your actions and friendliness that the "unbelieving mate"'s prejudices are unfounded, and if all else fails, get them when facing health problems or other crises.. the worst i fielded was directly after the meeting, when hubby asked me what it would take to join the watchtower society.
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/ Can You Reach Out to an Unbelieving Mate? - KM November 2010
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Can You Reach Out to an Unbelieving Mate? - KM November 2010
by jgnat 5 years ago 69 Replies latest 5 years ago jw friends
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agonus
agonus 5 years ago
Quote a Rush lyric for me, bro!
agonus
agonus 5 years ago
I guess it's bedtime for Bonzo
Good night, fellow simians
Nickolas
Nickolas 5 years ago
Always liked Rush. But your simian comments are a little biting. Do you have a prejudice against your anscestors?
agonus
agonus 5 years ago
Good point
Will revise presently
Nickolas
Nickolas 5 years ago
That's ok. Good points are best left unrevised. You look just a little like a bonobo, but I guess that's not a real picture of you, eh?
agonus
agonus 5 years ago
See previous "haiku" post
agonus
agonus 5 years ago
OK, here you go:
I got your Pith right here
The Schwartz is strong with this one...
agonus
agonus 5 years ago
no, not the previous accidental double post... damn internet... the previous page
agonus
agonus 5 years ago
Vice versa, man. Are we really this pathetic?
Nickolas
Nickolas 5 years ago
That's a very profound question. Are we that pathetic? You must mean mankind. I think we are, unfortunately. We will believe whatever feels good to us.
agonus
agonus 5 years ago
I think I've officially pithed you off
Nickolas
Nickolas 5 years ago
Sorry, not following.
agonus
agonus 5 years ago
I was about to post a picture of a certain pancake topping popular here in the States, knowing that there's nothing more offensive to Canadians than watered-down fake "maple" syrup (except maybe for watered-down beer)...
but then I realized that might unintentionally offend a completely different demographic
Nickolas
Nickolas 5 years ago
Mmmmm. Maple Syrup. Ok, you got me. But out beer's better than yours, you have to admit.
agonus
agonus 5 years ago
Corn... the miracle grain...
GO BIG RED
agonus
agonus 5 years ago
Hey, you guys gave us Shatner, you know...
Nickolas
Nickolas 5 years ago
Yes, I admit that. To our constant shame.
agonus
agonus 5 years ago
You know monkey, you might have more in common with us Midwesterners than you realize
(and by "Midwest", if you're thinking Winnipeg, then, well, just forget about it)
agonus
agonus 5 years ago
Of course, we repaid the favor by giving the world Trekkies...
Nickolas
Nickolas 5 years ago
You can be forgiven for the Trekkies. Not for the Beverly Hillbillies, however.
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Topic Summary
just wondering, for other "unbelieving mates" who visit this site, how many of you fielded spousal interference this week?
for those of you who don't keep up on wt news any more, the november issue of the kingdom ministry contained the above titled article, with a few "helpful suggestions".
i give credit to my hubby that he respected my stand before and after the meeting, even as he harbored a faint hope that the sainted words of the kingdom ministry would reach out and knock me to my "senses".. in summary, the "suggestions" include patience, don't bring up religious arguments, show through your actions and friendliness that the "unbelieving mate"'s prejudices are unfounded, and if all else fails, get them when facing health problems or other crises.. the worst i fielded was directly after the meeting, when hubby asked me what it would take to join the watchtower society.
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/ Can You Reach Out to an Unbelieving Mate? - KM November 2010
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Can You Reach Out to an Unbelieving Mate? - KM November 2010
by jgnat 5 years ago 69 Replies latest 5 years ago jw friends
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agonus
agonus 5 years ago
Grunt, grunt, me hate Hawkeyes
tec
tec 5 years ago
agonus
agonus 5 years ago
Wait a sec... who brought up "Trekkies" and "Big Red" first, or are we seriously sharing the same psychic space? This is getting scary. Bonzo, you go to bed and the Gipper here will sign off as well.
And, first thing in the morning, I'm going to enjoy some nice eggs and bacon that comes in strips.
agonus
agonus 5 years ago
tec, I think we're about as confused as you are at this point... see this is what happens when people are too clueless to realize they're on the same damn continent
Nickolas
Nickolas 5 years ago
good night, all. Entertaining thread.
Sayswho
Sayswho 5 years ago
◦Well since we have the "truth" we have to look for the best time to get people to listen...(read all of this before u bust me)
◦So when people are "down" that is the best time for their minds to be willing to accept the "truth" that we are trying to teach them.
◦When you are 'In the Truth" you don't see this as a mind controling tactic because you believe it is in the best interest of them and once they SEE the "truth" at that time...they will now be awaken to this new wonderful information that they were blinded to before.
◦When someone believes what they are doing is right...you can not hold it againts them! (like many of us at one time)
Sw
JW GoneBad
JW GoneBad 5 years ago
jgnat:
I was @ the service meeting and sat thru this part & there were 2 or 3 unbelieving mates in attendance also. It was as though the society was putting them on the spot. That made me feel for them. I wanted no part of the discussion. It was a part intended for 20 minutes and I think the individual conducting took 23 minutes.
The KM article is another indicator of the organization's disparate state of mind!
jwfacts
jwfacts 5 years ago
The worst I fielded was directly after the meeting, when hubby asked me what it would take to join the Watchtower Society.
What does he respond with when you ask "what would it take for him to leave the Watchtower Society?"
dinah
dinah 5 years ago
That part about catching them when they are sick or dealing with the death of someone close is the most disgusting thing I've seen in a long time.
It reminds me of vultures hovering around a carcass.
jgnat
jgnat 5 years ago
jwfacts, my hubby has become very discouraged at times and hedged around the thought of leaving. My big, no, huge mistake is to suggest he won't have anywhere to go; he can always come to my church. (It's that evil little imp in me that makes me do it. The part that doesn't want to be lobotomized). At the mention of any other place of worship, hubby shuts down. He is adamant that if he leaves the Watchtower Bible and Tract society, he will go no-where else. Silly me. Of course he says so. It's been ingrained in him that everywhere else is evil.
When someone believes what they are doing is right...you can not hold it againts them! (like many of us at one time)
Sayswho, I do not believe that a fallacious but sincerely held belief lets people off the hook. Especially if that belief puts people in danger. Not that the Kingdom Hall is dangerous per se; deadly boring and life-sucking, but not dangerous. Consider the extreme evangelical interpretation of Paul's admonition, "Consider it all joy, brothers....(James 1:2)" I've seen families in deep grief, bottling their pain because they fear it is "unscriptural". Or even worse, Job's comforters reminding the grieving family that they should not be sad. Heck, I miss my hubby if we are separated for more than two days. Can't we miss someone without repudiating heaven?
Consider other sincerely held beliefs in the past that endangered lives and as society was enlightened, the practices dropped. We used to "bleed" people to heal them, for instance.
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Topic Summary
just wondering, for other "unbelieving mates" who visit this site, how many of you fielded spousal interference this week?
for those of you who don't keep up on wt news any more, the november issue of the kingdom ministry contained the above titled article, with a few "helpful suggestions".
i give credit to my hubby that he respected my stand before and after the meeting, even as he harbored a faint hope that the sainted words of the kingdom ministry would reach out and knock me to my "senses".. in summary, the "suggestions" include patience, don't bring up religious arguments, show through your actions and friendliness that the "unbelieving mate"'s prejudices are unfounded, and if all else fails, get them when facing health problems or other crises.. the worst i fielded was directly after the meeting, when hubby asked me what it would take to join the watchtower society.
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Community Guidelines
Posting Rules
Terms of Service
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Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
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/ Elders' Manual - Prior to "Flock" Book
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Elders' Manual - Prior to "Flock" Book
by StandFirm 5 years ago 14 Replies latest 3 years ago watchtower beliefs
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StandFirm
StandFirm 5 years ago
The Watch Tower Publications Index under "Watch Tower Publications" under the "Books" subheading mentions the following elders' manuals prior to the 1991 "Flock" Book. They are:
1960: Kingdom Ministry School Course
1972: Kingdom Ministry School Course (revised)
Under "Brochures":
1977: "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock" (first brochure)
1979: "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock" (second brochure)
1981: "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock" (third brochure)
I already have the 1991 "Flock" book both without and with notes. I also have the 2010 Shepherding book.
My request is, Where can I find downloads of any of the older elders' manuals listed above?
Thanks in advance!
St George of England
St George of England 5 years ago
Did they not start off as "Preaching in unity" followed by "Preaching and teaching in peach and unity". This must have been 1950 - 60's before the elder arrangement.
Still have mine somewhere
George
InterestedOne
InterestedOne 5 years ago
Why not ask one of the elders in your local congregation? I would think they would be the best source and would know who to contact to find this material. Have you asked them yet?
StandFirm
StandFirm 5 years ago
St George of England: Those are the equivalents of the Organized book, not the elders' manual, and they are available at http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/booklets/ptiu.html and http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/booklets/preaching.html
Thank you though.
Remember all, these elders' manuals will help you expose JWs more, or expose apostates more, depending on who you'd ask.
InterestedOne
InterestedOne 5 years ago
Have you asked your local elders or not? If not, why not?
StandFirm
StandFirm 5 years ago
InterestedOne: Does it matter? It's none of their business.
InterestedOne
InterestedOne 5 years ago
It matters because logically, since they are elders, they would be the best, most direct, source for obtaining elders' handbooks. I would think an older elder would be a good source to ask for the older handbooks. It would be a very direct, expedient way to obtain the information. Is there a reason why you would hesitate to ask them?
TotallyADD
TotallyADD 5 years ago
When we got our Flock book we had to surrender the 3 Pay Attention brochures. Just thought you like to know. Totally ADD
InterestedOne
InterestedOne 5 years ago
If Jehovah's organization specified that the brochures must be surrendered to headquarters, that means anyone who retained them and would provide them on the internet would be violating Jehovah's counsel. How can StandFirm have a clean conscience before Jehovah if he is requesting that someone violate Jehovah's counsel? StandFirm, can you please help me to understand why you would request that someone violate Jehovah's counsel by providing brochures that were supposed to be turned in?
Marvin Shilmer
Marvin Shilmer 5 years ago
I have all this stuff.
Marvin Shilmer
StandFirm
StandFirm 5 years ago
Marvin Shilmer,
Have you considered sharing the information therein? It would be a great help to discussion by both pro- and anti-JWs as the later manuals have.
If you would be willing, I have a couple questions to ask here about a couple of subjects.
St George of England
St George of England 5 years ago
St George of England: Those are the equivalents of the Organized book, not the elders' manual
That's right, forgotten that.
Was I maybe thinking of 'Establishing and Legally Defending the Good News'? I seem to remember a 'servants only' book before the elders manual.
George
StandFirm
StandFirm 5 years ago
St George of England: That booklet has some info from legal cases up to 1950. I have that in hard copy form.
StandFirm
StandFirm 5 years ago
Does anyone know about a booklet given to Judicial Committees from the 1950s and 1960s?
Calebs Airplane
Calebs Airplane 3 years ago
Judicial Commitee booklets from the 60's? Who knew?
I wonder if they still have those now...
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FORENSIC ANALYSIS: The Governing Body as Lying Liars who Lie
by Terry 18 days ago
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/ German Kingdom Ministry sees increase from 2008 number of publishers to 2009 memorial attendance
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German Kingdom Ministry sees increase from 2008 number of publishers to 2009 memorial attendance
by processor 7 years ago 14 Replies latest 7 years ago watchtower beliefs
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processor
processor 7 years ago
km-X 9/09
In the German issue of Our Kingdom Ministry for September 2009, the memorial attendance is given: 269,303.
2008, there were 273,104 attendees, so there is a decrease of 3,801.
Rather than stating that, they write: "That are 106,759 more than the average publisher count in the 2008 service year. An incentive to 'having plenty to do in the work of the Lord.'"
They could also have written that the number of publishers in Germany in 2009 is greater than the number of millionaires in Australia in 2008, which shows the increase and the blessing of Jehovah ...
besty
besty 7 years ago
great news
daniel-p
daniel-p 7 years ago
"the number of publishers in Germany in 2009 is greater than the number of millionaires in Australia in 2008"
LOL!!! That's like saying: "the number of baptized JWs in 2009 is greater than the fleet of cars used by the Federal government." or, "the number of Memorial attendees is greater than the number of home foreclosures in Nebraska, Idaho, and Arizona, combined." OH MY GAWD, PRAISE JEHOOVER!!!!
sir82
sir82 7 years ago
Hmm...first effects of the global recession on JW numbers?
I would imagine that in Germany, as in most other prosperous Western nations, the large number of immigrants was artifically inflating JW publisher and Memorial attendance counts. Now that the recession is not only curtailing immigration but impelling many to return home, we may begin to see significant drops in publisher counts.
It will be interesting to see the 2010 yearbook report.
WTWizard
WTWizard 7 years ago
There had better be a significant drop in publisher count. This has been quite inflated already by fake time slips turned in, small children turning in slips, and deliberate counting "errors". And, if all this is factored out, these numbers should be taking a hit--down to the 1.8-2 million region (which is closer to how many sincere witlesses there are).
Nice to see the drop in Germany in the number rejecting Jesus at the Kingdumb Hell.
Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Billy the Ex-Bethelite 7 years ago
I'm still somewhat surprised that they haven't successfully expoited the downturn in the economy to lure the unsuspecting into their "end of days" trap.
I guess the Germans are too smart for that.
Perhaps next year they could point out in the Kingdumb Ministry that everyone who attended the Memorial in 2010 is one year older than they were at the Memorial of 2009.
B the X
RubaDub
RubaDub 7 years ago
That's like saying: "the number of baptized JWs in 2009 is greater than the fleet of cars used by the Federal government."
Daniel ...
Not to be critical, but I think a more accurate and easy to understand comparison would be comparing the Memorial attendance to the people participating in the current Cash for Clunkers car rebate program here in the US.
Rub a Dub
RubaDub
RubaDub 7 years ago
That's like saying: "the number of baptized JWs in 2009 is greater than the fleet of cars used by the Federal government."
Daniel ...
Not to be critical, but I think a more accurate and easy to understand comparison would be comparing the Memorial attendance to the people participating in the current Cash for Clunkers car rebate program here in the US.
Rub a Dub
OnTheWayOut
OnTheWayOut 7 years ago
This is great news. The memorial attendance is down. WTS is afraid to just say that. That's the real story.
WTS is afraid to simply tell the members about their concerns. Well, some will notice the problems.
Expect to see MAJOR changes in their statistics issue of the WT this year, maybe they won't even post one.
Maybe it will just go to the yearbook and comparisons from last year will be skewed.
Nostromo
Nostromo 7 years ago
I wonder why they dont tell how many partook...
AK - Jeff
AK - Jeff 7 years ago
What about the US? Any figures out yet?
Jeff
sir82
sir82 7 years ago
Expect to see MAJOR changes in their statistics issue of the WT this year, maybe they won't even post one.
They didn't.
The only place to see publisher counts now is the yearbook.
It's been mentioned on this forum before, but since January 2009 they have also stopped publishing the monthly country publisher counts in the KMs.
insearchoftruth
insearchoftruth 7 years ago
Perhaps next year they could point out in the Kingdumb Ministry that everyone who attended the Memorial in 2010 is one year older than they were at the Memorial of 2009.
I guess they could also report that we are one year closer to the 'end of this system of things' than we were last year as well......
Gayle
Gayle 7 years ago
Awesome!! May Germany be a leader in this trend!!
alanv
alanv 7 years ago
Jeff
Gayle posted the figures 3 weeks ago. It showed a 2% increase in U. S. Better news was the quarter percent increase in the U K!
Thanks processer for posting the German results. ( I feel I'm doing Eurovision)
Anybody else got any other countries results?
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/ Do The Magazines Suggest Organizational Decay?
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Do The Magazines Suggest Organizational Decay?
by metatron 7 years ago 15 Replies latest 7 years ago jw friends
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metatron
metatron 7 years ago
July 2009 Awake: "Why am I afraid to share my faith?" This article assumes that Jehovah's Witness children are ashamed of their faith!
It says "Define your fears" and "Accept the challenge". I am aware that the Society has had articles in the past that encouraged Witness kids to share or defend their faith but this goes further by presuming that these kids don't want anyone to know they are Witnesses or talk about it.
How can they conceive of any future for this organization when their youth are ashamed of this cult?
But wait, that's not all!
Let's look at something becoming rather peculiar about some recent Watchtower publications: difficulty in filling pages! I have noticed how the Society changes font size in the Kingdom Ministry apparently to fill the page! Since the Kingdom Ministry has so little of any depth to say, beyond a "Dick and Jane At The Beach" reading level, I am not surprized to see that they need to be imaginative to fill out their pages.
And the July 1 Watchtower follows a similar pattern. Remember, this is the public Watchtower, their primary voice to non-Witnesses. The back page has a few questions oddly set on a blank blue background. The magazine a full page and 2/3 of graphics about Bethel with no text. The first 8 pages is nothing more than an advertisement for their "What Does the Bible Really Teach?" book. Nothing else to teach? Nothing more important than a self referenced advertisement? No answers for the Devil "who accuses our brothers day and night"?
They don't know what to say..... and are losing the next generation of Witnesses.... who are embarrassed to be identified as such.
metatron
insearchoftruth
insearchoftruth 7 years ago
The August OKMs first and second week further support this, with the first week reaching out to school age kids and then week two reaching out to men in general. Seems like no longer enough men for leadership roles in the organization, so appeal to the UBMs....most UBMs such as myself are the UB part for a reason!!!
greenhornet
greenhornet 7 years ago
Back in the 60 s I told every one I was Jewish in school. If the Wachtower wants teenagerss to be proud they are JWs they need to be honest and not so F**n weird.
Like show up on Xmas day on your freinds door step with a suit and tie. WTF
Or during a birthday in a classroom you had to go to the office.
Or sitting down during the national atham.
Or your father writing on your white gym shoes Exodus 20:15.
Or every new teacher you had to explain you were a JW. (and not stand up for the National Athem)
Shall I go on!
JimmyPage
JimmyPage 7 years ago
Jewish, green hornet? LMFAO!
They can count me as one of the men who lost interest in reaching out in the congregation after seeing my dad waste all his free time doing it.
Did not look appealing to me!
greenhornet
greenhornet 7 years ago
There was a large Jewish population back then. My freind asked me why I got nothing for Xmas I said I was a Jew.
Do you want me to write on you white shoes?
greenhornet
greenhornet 7 years ago
The August OKMs first and second week further support this, with the first week reaching out to school age kids and then week two reaching out to men in general. Seems like no longer enough men for leadership roles in the organization, so appeal to the UBMs....most UBMs such as myself are the UB part for a reason!!!
What is a OKMs and what is a UBMs.
BurnTheShips
BurnTheShips 7 years ago
Do The Magazines Suggest Organizational Decay?
They suggest decaying organs. Have you seen what the GB looks like lately? Start digging.
BTS
Black Sheep
Black Sheep 7 years ago
Our Kingdom Misery Ministry
UnBaptised Mate
oompa
oompa 7 years ago
i was ahead of my time i guess.....i was ashamed in third grade and i was born in the early sixties......i never fit in........oompa
but i frikkin love this!!!.."why am i afraid to share my faith?".........cause i hate feelin like a freak!!!!
and some may kick my asssssss
WTWizard
WTWizard 7 years ago
Why would people be ashamed to be part of an organization that protects pedophiles (after 11/21/2007, many people in mainstream society heard about that) and may have had a share in killing Michael Jackson? Or, one that teaches doctrines that blatantly contradict science and then demands its adherents to believe those doctrines instead of science (one of the hallmarks of the Dark Ages that they are trying to set up)?
Or, when everyone else got to go to Grandma's for Christmas and you didn't. Doesn't that make you happy? Or, when you get back to school after Christmas and hear about what new goodies everyone else got for Christmas, and you got nothing (not even a lump of coal)? Or seeing all your friends playing in the snow with their new snow toys while you are dragged out in field circus? What a great way to instill the kind of joy that makes children want to proclaim the religion.
passwordprotected
passwordprotected 7 years ago
We need to remember what the purpose of the Watch Tower Society is; to announce Jehovah's Kingdom. They believe that kingdom arrived in 1914. Why on earth would they want to remind people of that, nearly 100 years after the event?
Also, the Watch Tower Society has chosen to eschew much of what the Bible teaches about Christ and the Holy Spirit and the effect a relationship with has on your life. So, they can't fill the magazine with stuff like that.
They're pretty much stuck pedaling the same eschatological nonsense that's been embarrassing them for decades.
JustHuman14
JustHuman14 7 years ago
Sure they do...it is obvious that JW's started to get tired from WT's crap. They want to have a lfe and be NORMAL like the rest of the world. I guess that is why the old fools in Brooklyn they know that their era as a "organization" is coming to end
skeeter1
skeeter1 7 years ago
Wow, the WTS finally caught up with how the kids feel. Perhaps Brooklyn is reading all of the apostate books, "I'm Perfect You're Doomed" or "The Truth Book", etc; all that detail how the average JW children feel.
Also, the WTS undoubtedly saw the Pew report on religion, where the JWs have the highest percentage of children LEAVING the religion.
So, the WTS answer is to tell the kids not to be ashamed. But, the WTS misses the point; as long as Mother Organization is a deeply flawed cult, the kids are ashamed. Kids understand more than we give them credit to.
designs
designs 7 years ago
Other End Times focused religions changed and set education and social ministries as worthy goals, like the SDA.
I doubt the Society will make such a change, the newer GB are pretty republican.
carla
carla 7 years ago
UBM is an unbelieving mate be it a former jw or never been jw.
Told them I was Jewish- haha, did your parents ever find out you said that?
"but i frikkin love this!!!.."why am i afraid to share my faith?".........cause i hate feelin like a freak!!!!
and some may kick my asssssss" -- sums it up to me!
insearchoftruth
insearchoftruth 7 years ago
Yep, why be ashamed, YPA Vol I tells a kid not to hold hands, embrace or kiss until they find a person they intend to marry, no proms or dances, I guess marching band is out since you could not play the national anthem of what ever country you are in, excusing oneself from birthday celebrations, not being able to go to the Y.........sure sounds like a normal teen life to me.........
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/ Long time lurker, first time poster ...
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Long time lurker, first time poster ...
by LettMorrisSplaneit 2 hours ago 17 Replies latest 9 minutes ago jw experiences
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LettMorrisSplaneit
LettMorrisSplaneit 2 hours ago
Hello everybody!
I finally had the guts to create a profile to be able to post. I've been lurking for a few months and have read all your experiences and comments dutifully. You have been a great help in my process of waking up from this cult posing as the one true religion. I thank you for openly and honestly sharing your experiences, I'm grateful for all of you, you have been a blessing :wink:
I'm still physically in for family reasons, but I think everyday about the day I get to be out completely. I have been raised in the "truth" since the age of 6, I'm 42 now. I feel like the best part of my youth/life has been wasted. I started regular pioneering right out of high school, this was in the mid '90's when the end 'had already turned the corner'. Needless to say that process of waking up has not been easy, I'm doing much better now, but the WT has done a number on me and I know I still have a long road ahead.
+21 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 2 hours ago
H there , welcome to this forum of open discussion and debate.
Your not alone in the wakening up to the realization of what has been a corrupt commercialized fraud structured within a religoius organization.
The Truth about The Truth is starting to awaken many to the worrying dismay of the WTS. leaders.
+1 / -0
sparky1
sparky1 2 hours ago
Welcome................and I love your name!
+5 / -0
stephanie61092
stephanie61092 2 hours ago
Hello and welcome! Best of luck in your wake
up process. This board is a great place to start.
Village Idiot
Village Idiot 2 hours ago
Hi there LMS and welcome!
freemindfade
freemindfade 2 hours ago
Welcome
WingCommander
WingCommander 2 hours ago
Oh man, major props for created Avatar name. Hahahahahahahaha! Freakin' luv it!!!
Welcome. I feel ya. I'm 36, born-in. I never thought I'd be this age in "this Old System of Things", much less pushing 40. I can barely believe it. I'm sure you, like me, can very clearly remember the promises of the 1980's "Generation that will surely by no means pass away", etc. Then they went and dismissed core doctrine, and left me with my jaw on the floor and no college education. Good thing I at least went to a local vocational school in high school and got some training in CAD, so I at least make some decent money now.
I couldn't imagine still being in. I escaped totally before I was 20.
+4 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours an hour ago
Welcome.
I waited much too long to leave and now I am old and scared of new beginnings.
Welcome.
DY
+4 / -0
LettMorrisSplaneit
LettMorrisSplaneit an hour ago
I also have days when I feel that it might be to late to leave @Doubtfully Yours.
I started to remove the blinders only a few months ago, it all started with the ARC, after that I read COC and all the cards came down after that.
+5 / -0
jaydee
jaydee an hour ago
LettMorrisSplaneit .... Image result for hug emoji .... hi welcome..
Doubtfully Yours .....
Image result for hug emoji...don't be scared, be happy......
+3 / -0
SafeAtHome
SafeAtHome an hour ago
Sorry, accidentally taped dislike. This Kindle is very touchy! I love your story and welcome.🌷
+1 / -0
Peony
Peony an hour ago
I love your name....made me smile. Welcome to the forum. A place where you can be yourself. I know you are looking back with regret of the wasted years, I too pioneered from school and only got out (physically as well) at age 45. But I have to say once physically out I was so happy (way more than I expected) that I thought if I can live to 90 I've got another 45 years to enjoy (true enjoyment)! It's never too late. It's not an easy road to take (mine was 3 years ending in Disasociation and losing my family) but it was worth it. I wouldn't have thought so when I was at the stage you're at but as time goes on and your life fills more with non JW things, the JW things have less and less hold on you. Best wishes to you....there's a wonderful life waiting for you, grasp it.
+3 / -0
LettMorrisSplaneit
LettMorrisSplaneit an hour ago
thank you, @Peony. :smile:
I feel so much better now, the FOG is mostly gone. I still struggle with the "obligation" part of it. JW life is all I've known, it's second nature to do all the JW routines.
+3 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 34 minutes ago
I think the most difficult thing to mentally resolve and evaluate upon is that yes its easy to see good wholesome living values being promoted within the JW faith but there is also a fair amount of structured social behavior controls as well, that can even impose life or death situations onto people.
The way that this organization is formulated is that you have to accept and adhere to everything, every directive, every doctrine completely without question or dissension and you are accordingly watched with a magnifying glass that you do.
These over bearing controls combined with enforced subjection, guilt, fear and shame if your not promoting the religion drives most people away from it, add in the suspiciously false prophetic preaching of Christ's Gospel and you have a religion that not only repels people away but also influences people to leave it all together.
The other hard thing for people to emotionally deal with is the socialization factor that being apart of a congregation involves, which by the WTS own design states that JWS are the only worthy people to socialize with, all other non-believers are to be kept at a distance in association, even to depart from ones own family if necessary.
So there's a lot going on with this religoius organization to evaluate.
My suggestion is to keep on educating yourself on many things and subjects to help yourself individually rather that looking for a singular organization educate you, think for you and control you, humanity overall can benefit for that sought out endeavor.
cofty
cofty 30 minutes ago
Welcome, thanks for posting your story.
JW life is all I've known, it's second nature to do all the JW routines.
I think my wife could relate to that. She woke up before I did but in some ways it felt easier to plod on in familiar routines.
It will be worth the pain of leaving once you have a plan for the rest of your life.
Londo111
Londo111 21 minutes ago
Welcome. Awesome handle!
crazy_flickering_light
crazy_flickering_light 17 minutes ago
Welcome! Im also a trapped in.
wannaexit
wannaexit 9 minutes ago
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/ Scientology, FLDS, jws what's the difference?
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Scientology, FLDS, jws what's the difference?
by Ghiagirl an hour ago 0 Replies latest an hour ago jw experiences
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Ghiagirl
Ghiagirl an hour ago
There isn't really! I feel a little better I didn't believe in polygamy or that a volcano erupted and we flew out of them and came down to the earth or whatever scientologists believe. But at the same time all 3 groups have the same cult qualities. Anyone who doesn't believe is called an apostate, members get shunned whether it's disfellowshipping or disconnecting. Everyone is shielded from reality, no reading outside of organizations literature or books. I know a lot saw the Scientology documentary I forgot what it's called but recently prophets prey has been playing on showtime about the FLDS. I feel so sick seeing the similarities to the jws. How does no one see! Even the creepy songs sound the same!!!!! I recommend watching it for those who haven't seen it. Feeling so thankful to be awake, sometimes it can be easier to not know ttat, but really I'm so much happier now!!!
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/ "It's much easier to avoid worldly entertainment, now that we have JWDOTborg."
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"It's much easier to avoid worldly entertainment, now that we have JWDOTborg."
by OneGenTwoGroups 8 hours ago 18 Replies latest 2 hours ago jw experiences
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OneGenTwoGroups
OneGenTwoGroups 8 hours ago
Yep, that's what my good friend said at yesterday's WT study. Wished she would have actually said Borg..
+1 / -0
WingCommander
WingCommander 8 hours ago
Brainwashed and delusional. If they were given Kool-Aide at the next Memorial and told to drink it down, they would gulp it down without question. Crazy.
zeb
zeb 7 hours ago
"5% of people think,
10% think they think
85% are scared to death if they think". anon
+7 / -0
sir82
sir82 7 hours ago
I gotta admit, Watching old Rubberface Lett hyper-gesticulating is at least as entertaining as an old Red Skelton skit.
"Jw.Borg - brought to you by Guzzler's Gin....[gulp].....smo-o-o-o-o-o-oth!
+1 / -0
sparky1
sparky1 7 hours ago
I would still rather watch Porky Pig on television rather than watch Mark Sanderson on JW.org!
+2 / -0
sparky1
sparky1 6 hours ago
I would still rather watch Red Skelton on television rather than watch Steven Lett on JW.org.
+3 / -0
LostGeneration
LostGeneration 6 hours ago
sparky1
sparky1 6 hours ago
I would still rather watch Mr. Potatohead on television rather than watch Geoffrey Jackson on JW.Org.
+3 / -0
sparky1
sparky1 6 hours ago
I would still rather watch Red Foxx on television rather than watch Samuel Herd on JW.Org.
+3 / -0
sparky1
sparky1 6 hours ago
I would still rather watch Grandpa Munster on television rather than watch Tony Morris on JW.Org.
+6 / -0
galaxie
galaxie 6 hours ago
Watching the antics of watchtower is worldly entertainment. They are as much worldly as any other nutcase organization peddling whacky nonsense!!
+1 / -0
punkofnice
punkofnice 6 hours ago
When I feel up to it, I'll look at the JW broadcast. Each time I find it incredible that grown people lap this nonsensical propaganda up.
+1 / -0
sparky1
sparky1 6 hours ago
I would still rather watch Christoph Waltz play an evil German on television rather than watch Gerrit Losch be an evil German on JW.Org.
+2 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 6 hours ago
I would still rather watch Red Skelton on television rather than watch Steven Lett
IDK------------ Steve Lett is pretty entertaining if you turn the sound off and just watch the crazy-ass expressions.
Doc
+0 / -1
nowwhat?
nowwhat? 5 hours ago
NOW THAT'S ENTERTAINMENT!! LMAO
+1 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 4 hours ago
Great job Sparky1!!!
Funny!
+2 / -0
LettMorrisSplaneit
LettMorrisSplaneit 3 hours ago
When JW TV first came out, we had a CO who actually said from the stage, that we don't need cable tv now.
+1 / -0
Lostwun
Lostwun 2 hours ago
Sparky i laughed so hard when i saw GJ as mr potatoe head. LOL That was hilarious and so TRUE!!
+1 / -0
sparky1
sparky1 2 hours ago
I would still rather watch Eeyore on television rather than watch David Splane on JW.Org.
+1 / -0
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/ Wt encouraging people to completely forgive but they dont
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Wt encouraging people to completely forgive but they dont
by poopie 13 hours ago 10 Replies latest 3 hours ago jw friends
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poopie
poopie 13 hours ago
But they don't forgive because they still shun people. Who they feel are not worthy of forgivenes
+3 / -0
stephanie61092
stephanie61092 13 hours ago
Story of my freaking life. Exactly why I sit in a therapists office once a week and get enough venting done so I don't blow my brains out. For another week at least.
+2 / -0
zeb
zeb 11 hours ago
A credit to you stephanie61092 for going to a counsellor.
+2 / -0
Divergent
Divergent 10 hours ago
For forgiveness to come into the picture, it is imperative for a wrongdoing to take place first. The ironic thing is that in many cases of shunning, no forgiveness is needed in the first place! The person shunned has done absolutely NOTHING wrong - all they have done is to disagree with the man-made teachings & man-made laws of the org, and for this illogical & nonsensical reason they are ostracised & shunned. Forgiveness? What for?
+4 / -0
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 8 hours ago
Yeah, I know, right!
+1 / -0
ToesUp
ToesUp 8 hours ago
Just another contradiction in JW land. One of many!
+1 / -0
FreeGirl2006
FreeGirl2006 7 hours ago
Even if someone has actually done something "wrong" and is very remorseful, has stopped the wrong, made amends, that person can still be dfd--where is the forgiveness in that situation--simply to keep the congregation clean (barf) and to discipline (double barf). Feel the love of the most lovingest organization in the world...
+1 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 4 hours ago
Very true.
Good comments and observations!
punkofnice
punkofnice 3 hours ago
That disgusting real estate/printing corporation will only pretend to 'forgive' if there is money in it for them. By what I can see, 'give us your money' is the main message from the paedophile protecting rock star popes AKA governing body(tm).
Island Man
Island Man 3 hours ago
Also, they don't forget. The bible says God throws sinners sins behind his back when they repent. Not so, Watchtower. Watchtower holds the sinners past sins on record and use it against him to determine whether or not he qualifies for certain "privileges".
paladin1
paladin1 3 hours ago
I recall love statements in the watchtower study on Sunday and I kept thinking about the marking, shunning and disfellowshipping policy. Love in the WTS is conditional.
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Why Me?
by Grey Goose 18 hours ago 21 Replies latest 3 hours ago jw friends
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Grey Goose
Grey Goose 18 hours ago
It the question that i have found myself constantly asking myself the past few months. Out of all the JWs i interact with, why did it have to be me that woke up from this mess?
I am relieved that i have woken up to the bullshit, but a side of me misses that fuzzy feeling of being a 100% believer. I can't go a single conversation with a JW these days without them mentioning something "great" about the org, and it's tough faking a positive response. Although these days i tend try to move the conversation along quickly, or say something funny / sarcastic about the org.
Although, there is a side to me that is relived its me that woke up and not someone else, as there isn't a single person i know that could deal with it in a rational controlled way. Maybe that's why i woke up, I'm able to deal with things quite controlled and rational? I just don't know.
Sorry, this is more of a rambling thread, just getting stuff off my chest.
+16 / -0
Wild_Thing
Wild_Thing 18 hours ago
It will seem surreal for a while. It's like waking up from the Matrix. All I can say is "hang in there". I have also sometimes wished that I had never "woken up". Sometimes I wish I was still a part of it, a part of the "belonging", but it wasn't real. And it was always conditional. I am so much happier now, and the longer I am away, the more they seem ... kind of crazy.
+5 / -0
Magnum
Magnum 18 hours ago
a side of me misses that fuzzy feeling of being a 100% believer
Me, too. I think back to old times when I had a hope and thought I was doing something really worthwhile - participating in the greatest work on earth. I loved going to district conventions and hated it when they were over because I didn't want to leave the atmosphere and go back to "the world".
However, I'm glad I woke up. As I observe JWs who are deluded, unreasonable, irrational. blind, ignorant, etc., I'm glad I'm not like that. As I learn more about the religion and the organization, I'm glad I got out.
+2 / -0
stephanie61092
stephanie61092 18 hours ago
That's how I feel the majority of the time. Part of me misses the bliss of thinking I had all the answers. But overall, I'm happy to know TTATT because I can live a life of general freedom and not feel guilty for being disfellowshipped and then once I'm "back" I know I can live my life without the guilt of going in service enough or missing a meeting
ToesUp
ToesUp 16 hours ago
The only "Why me" question I have is...."Why me...why did I have to be born into this?"
I am glad I woke up while I was fairly young. We have relatives pushing 70 that have not woken up but have serious doubts. They have serious doubts but still say..."it's still the truth." WTF? How the hell can you have doubts but still feel it is the truth? Maybe I am missing something here!
+3 / -0
smiddy
smiddy 15 hours ago
Why me ? I thank my lucky stars it was me who did wake up , I sure ain`t thanking any GOD .
Having serious doubts but saying, ' still, it`s the truth' isn`t that what cognitive dissonance is ? in a nutshell ?
Then the other cop out is," Well even if it`s not the truth it sure is the best way to live "
Seriously ? Cult mind control at it`s best.
However I know what some of you are saying ," ignorance is bliss" but really do we want to be conned and manipulated by others for the rest of our lives ?
I don`t think so .
smiddy
+2 / -0
kairos
kairos 15 hours ago
The Matrix does come up.
"Why didn't I take the blue pill?"
+1 / -0
NeverAllowestobeMyself
NeverAllowestobeMyself 14 hours ago
I totally understand this. The feeling of knowing and yet wishing you didn't comes and goes. I am so tired of playing along and yet the cost of leaving is just to high.
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 13 hours ago
Interesting thread!
Would we rather be content but living a fantasy, or would we rather be grounded by facts?
I understand the feeling of being "the only true faith" and "knowing some facts about the future" and all of that....but the high control cult-like culture of the society is disturbing to say the least.
Yes it is unsettling to have ones whole life foundations come undone, but it is also liberating to no longer be held in FOG (fear, Obligation, Guilt)
+1 / -0
Divergent
Divergent 10 hours ago
My feeling is: Why ONLY me? Why can't the other JW's who I know wake up also???
+1 / -0
freemindfade
freemindfade 8 hours ago
That "fuzzy feeling" was not real. At all! Waking up is a cluster-f-ck of stress this is true, but when you get yourself properly distance you will realize that the fuzzy feeling was not so good.
A lot of us feel we had so many friends inside and outside not as many. But I say this, once you are out you need to learn how to be friends with yourself, find out who you are, what you will believe, and why you like being your true self. Good luck.
+1 / -0
Phizzy
Phizzy 7 hours ago
This piece of fine advice needs repeating :
" But I say this, once you are out you need to learn how to be friends with yourself, find out who you are, what you will believe, and why you like being your true self. Good luck."
Once you have done that, you will find that friends are made easily.
+1 / -0
MarkofCane
MarkofCane 6 hours ago
I've wondered this myself. Why did I have to wake form my somber? I look at the folks still in and they seem to be on the same old routine going through this life with this mislead arrogance, this fantasy that there real life is yet to be lived. They appear to be in a sleep like state just walking through this life, like it is a rehearsal of some sort, like it has no meaning. Things that are important like family and relationships are pushed aside for a future utopia that is delusional. They wave off the now for a future. They are ok with writing off the one's that leave there delusion with this pretense they are living by some spirit directed mandate given to them by the Governing body. There whole existence is fantasy.
If I could take a pill that guaranteed, I would not remember a thing but would wake up tomorrow and would be where I once was, inside the organization. My family in unity, old friends in there respective places and firmly back within the congregation. Back out in service preaching a fantasy that I truly believed, living the dream of a future paradise. Would I take the pill? I would have to say no. I would not want to be living a lie. I would rather live the now with all its unknown then a fantasy with all there deluded answer. I would rather suffer with humanity and try to figure out the world we live in then close minded and mislead to appease some old men living in Brooklyn. I would rather be the real me.
+2 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 6 hours ago
I had a conversation recently with someone I had not seen in a long time. He mentioned about the building work, and how people are coming in hand over fist.
I was like - did you read the Yearbook? Did you notice we only gained 118K last year? Are halls getting built in your area, they are not in mine.
+1 / -0
jaydee
jaydee 6 hours ago
MarkofCane W O W...I can only give this 1 like......needs more
Image result for like emoji
punkofnice
punkofnice 6 hours ago
ToesUp
The only "Why me" question I have is...."Why me...why did I have to be born into this?"
Yes. Me too.
Harvard Illiterate 411
Harvard Illiterate 411 6 hours ago
You and me both. Some days I wake up and just want to scream at the top of my lungs and tell everyone "ITS A CULT!!"
Be glad you had an open mind. Being enlightened was never easy. Remember that next time you feel down about it.
+1 / -0
joe134cd
joe134cd 5 hours ago
TTATT is like a mental door in that once you go through it and it shuts behind you. You will never go back.
+1 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 5 hours ago
I can relate so well, not only to the OP, but to so many comments. I esp like the thought of: Why ONLY me? I know of many other JWs that I consider above average intellect. They are reading all of these same BS New Lite changes. They've witnesses "100 Years of Christ's Kingdom" where there ain't nothin' happened.
Why isn't their Bullshit Meter going off?
Image result for bullshit meter
Doc
+1 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 4 hours ago
I'm sure there are many who think something is just not right...not "adding up" with the society...but they are so emotionally tied up or invested in the org that they just can't see any other alternative in life....
sad but true.
+1 / -0
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Why Me?
by Grey Goose 18 hours ago 21 Replies latest 3 hours ago jw friends
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zophar
zophar 4 hours ago
I'm sure that children who learn there is no Santa Claus or tooth fairy go through some trauma too. They seem to be able to adjust quickly to reality though.
Unfortunately, many of us were so sure we had all the answers for 30, 40, 50 years or more before reality shattered our perception. I guess I can only say, I'm glad I'm not in my 60's still waiting for Santa Claus.
Who knows what will shape my thinking in the future, but I doubt very seriously it will involve a cult or any absolute black and white thinking process. For that I am grateful.
redpilltwice
redpilltwice 3 hours ago
red pill
blue pill
your choice
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Topic Summary
it the question that i have found myself constantly asking myself the past few months.
out of all the jws i interact with, why did it have to be me that woke up from this mess?.
i am relieved that i have woken up to the bullshit, but a side of me misses that fuzzy feeling of being a 100% believer.
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Was Jesus a real person?
by Coded Logic 10 months ago
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by blondie 5 months ago
Mark Zyche
How many of you actually KNOW the bible OR God???
by Mark Zyche 2 months ago
Loi_241
I Have a Rough Experience Story About Not Allowing Me to Celebrate Christmas
by Loi_241 3 months ago
John Aquila
The Angels will guide a nuclear bomb away from the Governing Body!
by John Aquila 4 months ago
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Lady drives car into Kingdom Hall
by Sugar Shane 14 hours ago 18 Replies latest 20 minutes ago watchtower scandals
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Sugar Shane
Sugar Shane 14 hours ago
Right smack into (what looks like) the front entry!
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-13/78yo-female-driver-crash-jehovahs-witnesses-church/7243268
This was in Australia, but the KHs I've seen (in the US) are designed so that you'd have to almost INTENTIONALLY want to ram a building to cause this kind of damage. Usually a fence around KHs, right?
Wonder if she was a disillusioned JW, who finally had it with all the changes & false promises, or perhaps got DF'd? Anyone in Oz know anything about this?
Listener
Listener 14 hours ago
It must have been a terrible shock for her.
I was at the Doctors today and noticed a few elderly people who had somehow got themselves to the surgery on their own. There are many older drivers who shouldn't be driving and feel very nervous to do so but don't have much choice. Some of the less confident drivers will limit themselves to driving locally and very slowly.
If she's a JW then she might get offers to be picked up in the future.
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 13 hours ago
IT must be the latest craze!
http://www.thegazette.com/subject/news/public-safety/linn-county/man-hospitalized-after-crash-into-kingdom-hall-of-jehovahs-witnesses-20151116
Perhaps it is a sign of the last days??
+1 / -0
Divergent
Divergent 10 hours ago
Seems to me that the elderly lady driver is a JW. Looks like she crashed her car into the KH from the parking lot
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 9 hours ago
Oh boy, I think I went on RVs with an old Sister "Magoo" who drove just like that. There must be one at every hall.
+2 / -0
KateWild
KateWild 8 hours ago
Yes likely a case of elderly drivers losing control of a vehicle. Pressing the gas instead of the brake. My parents are in their 70's and both drive. They are terrible drivers and me and my daughter hesitate to get in the car with them when they're driving.
It's a dilemma because you don't want to reduce their independence.
Kate xx
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 7 hours ago
Where were the Angels on that one? Maybe they were busy finding plumbing leaks, or helping Andre pick out appropriate pants, or stop touching little Andre??
A couple of years ago an elderly sister actually killed someone on the way to the memorial. You would think that at least one angel would intervene? It is the most sacred night and what not... Geeze, at least wait until after the memorial is over to commit vehicular manslaughter.
DD
+2 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 6 hours ago
Oh well.............more money for the WTS.
Appraisers will estimate the damage and cut the WTS a big check and the RBC (or whatever it's called now) will send in their free laborers and do a shitty job patching the hole in the wall.
Praise Jah!
Doc
Divergent
Divergent 5 hours ago
I bet many of the JW's there would be caring more about the damage that was caused RATHER than caring more about how the elderly sister is doing!
+1 / -0
LisaRose
LisaRose 4 hours ago
I read recently that for some reason older women drivers more often mistake the gas pedal for the brake than older men drivers do. They should test older drivers more, some of them should not be on the road. I was worried about my father in law's driving, as I was in the car when he blew through stop signs and drive 45 in the fast lane of the freeway, but it turned out it was my mother in law who ended up having problems, she made a left turn in front of a motorcycle two years ago, unfortunately it was fatal for the motorcyclist. He was also exceeding the speed limit by quite a bit, but she ended up being 51% at fault. They just assumed it was a mistake on her part, but she has had a few minor strokes since then, so my guess is that it was either an earlier stroke that caused the accident or she was already having them and it had affected her thinking. Neither of them drive anymore, which is a good thing, they are both in their eighties.
steve2
steve2 4 hours ago
If a watchtower had been positioned at the entrance and manned, Witnesses could have seen this about to happen and prevented it.
+1 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 4 hours ago
Maybe the Angels that stood guard at the entrance to the garden of Eden should have been on the job?
The Flaming spinning sword would have kept that car out.....
James Mixon
James Mixon 4 hours ago
A friend 92 driver license wasn't renewed, he was damn near blind. The day he took
his test for his renewal he drove one block with the instructor and the DMV instructor told him
to pull over and told him no way you should be driving.I was happy because I saw him drive, and
I'm surprised he didn't hurt someone or himself. That's the worst thing that can happen for older folks,
no driver licenses.
LoveUniHateExams
LoveUniHateExams 3 hours ago
Wonder if she was a disillusioned JW, who finally had it with all the changes & false promises, or perhaps got DF'd?
She was probably trying to park.
Tsk, wimmin drivers, eh ...
James Mixon
James Mixon 3 hours ago
Maybe she was tired of waiting and decided to drive to paradise.
Londo111
Londo111 2 hours ago
Finally, a window!
+2 / -0
JeffT
JeffT 2 hours ago
After many years in property management I've lost track of the number of times I've seen cars hit buildings. Older drivers are frequently, but not always, the driver involved. My favorite was the adult newly arrived immigrant who literally drove her car into the DMV office when returning from failing her driving exam. Turned out she didn't have insurance after stating on the forms that she did.
BluesBrother
BluesBrother 2 hours ago
I am glad she was o k.. Was she a Cong Member going home after the meeting and engaged forward instead of reverse?
An expensive claim on the WTS own "insurance " or whatever they call the fund - still, volunteer labour will soon fix it up
freddo
freddo 20 minutes ago
Jehovah's chariot destroys more Kingdom Halls than little old ladies do.
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todays wt
by bobld 18 hours ago 21 Replies latest 36 minutes ago watchtower bible
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bobld
bobld 18 hours ago
Q10..They forgot one question.
Would you let a 30 year old man in diapers inspect your ward robe?
see opening picture.
+2 / -1
oppostate
oppostate 17 hours ago
◦Q10..They forgot one question.
Would you let a 30 year old man in diapers inspect your ward robe?
see opening picture.
Flag Dislike Like
◦
+1 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 13 hours ago
Can you post a link?
No idea what you are referring to sorry....
skin
skin 13 hours ago
Jesus judges people based on the clothes they are wearing came out at our WT study, Thats why there is a photo of a person sorting out her wardrobe....?
freddo
freddo 12 hours ago
And another checking his X-box games ... (yawn)
Divergent
Divergent 10 hours ago
Here's the picture:
jookbeard
jookbeard 10 hours ago
totally sick
stillin
stillin 10 hours ago
I was baffled by the illustration of the guy volunteering to take my place instead of me being executed for a crime that I was "implicated" in. If he was innocent, who would execute him instead of me?
they lost me there
+4 / -1
jookbeard
jookbeard 10 hours ago
This post has been rated click to view
Divergent
Divergent 10 hours ago
It's ironic how the sister is obsessing over what is more modest to wear when Jesus is lying there almost naked... LOL!!!
+2 / -0
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 9 hours ago
I thought it was that Joseph of Arimathea dude and Nicodemus who collected Jesus' body so who is the other guy?
sir82
sir82 9 hours ago
I was baffled by the illustration of the guy volunteering to take my place instead of me being executed for a crime that I was "implicated" in. If he was innocent, who would execute him instead of me?
I know, right? What kind of wacked-out justice system is that?
"Sorry that Joe Blow killed your spouse, but don't worry, we'll kill Jack Black. That ought to make you feel better."
+1 / -0
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 7 hours ago
They are desperately trying to make themselves relevant. It's not working. The conductor went on about how to know if you are imitating the world. You would start talking and dressing like them. Hmmmm...????
So, if I want to be like Jesus, does that mean I can grow a beard?
DD
+3 / -0
punkofnice
punkofnice 7 hours ago
typical cult control propaganda. The watchtower corporation is trying to link itself with Jesus. No wonder he's asleep!
ttdtt
ttdtt 6 hours ago
7 + billion people are about to become human hotdogs (that's what tony morris tells us) and we are worried that jesus may not like the video games we are playing.
god and his 144000 are going to slaughter 7 billion including - 500 million kids, and about 200 million pregnant women, but he doesn't want us to play Grand Theft Auto, or watch Saving Private Ryan because he HATES violence.
No conflict at all.
+7 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 6 hours ago
Y'all are forgetting that JWs DO NOT read the WT rag. They just attend the meeting (about 75% of the time) and sit there bored. Their brain is stagnant. Nothing goes in that they have to bother thinking about.
Doc
+1 / -0
baker
baker 5 hours ago
Next they will bring up that some raise their hand all the time trying to show that they are the "most" righteous above the great crowd. Cant have anyone superior among the publishers.
+1 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 4 hours ago
Perfectly said ttdtt!
So contradictory indeed.
+1 / -0
Island Man
Island Man 4 hours ago
I just want to make a quick suggestion about posting time-sensitive information. Please don't take it harshly because I know it's just an oversight. And I see it often on other posts.
The post talks about today's Watchtower. Yesterday (March 13, 2016) the use of the word "today" enabled one to know exactly which day was being referenced. But a reader reading this post 6 months in the future, would not know exactly what day is being referenced because no date is mentioned.
Since posts remain on the site indefinitely, we all have to try to remember to post a date whenever we refer to events that relate to a particular day. That way future readers can, for example, read this post and go look for the specific Watchtower article that was being referenced, based on the date provided.
It's easy to forget to do this because we live in the now and we generally don't think about the fact that posted information isn't just being read now, but also being read in the future.
What would be good is if there was some special automated script that would automatically tag on the date a post was made, at the end of the first occurrence of the word "today" in a post. So for example a poster writes:
"The congregation bible study today was crazy!".
But when the post is being processed the script runs and adds in the date and final post that's uploaded reads:
"The congregation bible study today [March 14, 2016] was crazy!"
Or maybe the script can insert a tool tip on time words like yesterday, today, this month, etc so that when you point at them with your mouse a little pop up or tool tip displays the date.
Knowing the exact date being referenced can be helpful for future readers.
Island Man
Island Man 3 hours ago
Please disregard my post above. It is entirely unwarranted!
I just realized that there is a little indicator next to each post that tells you how long ago it was made. And when you mouse over it a little pop-up tells you the exact date and time of the post. So readers can use that info. to determine or calculate what "today" and other relative time references mean.
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todays wt
by bobld 18 hours ago 21 Replies latest 37 minutes ago watchtower bible
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FadeToBlack
FadeToBlack an hour ago
What is the guy in the 3rd panel doing/checking? Perhap deleting links to hard-core, raunchy, porn? He seems happy...
ttdtt
ttdtt 37 minutes ago
I think the picture of the guy on the right is funny.
So Notice he has a MacBook Pro, and iPhone, and an iPad. (iphone and iPad are in horrible covers.)
I guess when you need to watch cult videos and read cult publications - you want an OS and Hardware that won't ever let you down.
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q10..they forgot one question.. would you let a 30 year old man in diapers inspect your ward robe?.
see opening picture..
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/ Just in time for Memorial season...
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Just in time for Memorial season...
by OutsiderLookingIn 19 hours ago 8 Replies latest 2 hours ago watchtower bible
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OutsiderLookingIn
OutsiderLookingIn 19 hours ago
This is short and quick but maybe it's a seed to plant in the 10 days until the Memorial. I have talked to JWs who tell me their reason for not eating the bread and drinking the cup is because that was only a New Covenant with His disciples (and in their wonky extension, the 144,000). But I just thought of a few things.
First off, that's not even true because in John 6:53-54, Jesus was talking to more than His disciples. But let's assume that's true: why are they doing other things Jesus only told His disciples about? Like the preaching work. The flimsy proof texts given for the need to preach for salvation were only spoken to the disciples: Matthew 24:14 (see verse 3, He told the disciples these things "privately"); Matthew 28:19-20. In two accounts (starting Matthew 10:1 and Mark 6:7), Jesus tells them to pair off and preach; only Luke 10 talks about the 70 (or 72) disciples but just say "well, the 12 is equal to the 144,000, why aren't they equal to the 70? The accounts are otherwise the same." The fact remains, in the most-cited reasons for the "preaching work" (in Matthew), Jesus was talking directly to His nearest and dearest disciples. If the Lord's Supper is only for His disciples who will rule with Christ in heaven, why should anyone but that anointed group preach? Or: why are they disciples for the preaching work, but not for the very act that symbolizes that they're a part of the New Covenant?
Thoughts?
+5 / -0
prologos
prologos 19 hours ago
Jesus would be removed as an elder and disfellowshipped for active apostasy, because he served the bread and wine to non-anointed people with an earthly hope, ordering them to eat and drink. think.
+8 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 19 hours ago
Jws pick and choose what Scriptures they will use. They are taught by stupid men and so they end up stupid too. Example they love James 1:26-27 faith with out works is worthless yet never read Ephesian 2:8-9 where it says the exact opposite.
About the eating of the bread and wine, every other Christian religion knows that Jesus was talking to everyone in the crowd at copernium when he said you have to eat my flesh to have life in you. The second group he talks about the other sheep is the gentiles, Christians know this as well.
+3 / -0
sloppyjoe2
sloppyjoe2 17 hours ago
As prologos pointed out, both instances Jesus said to eat the bread and drink the wine it was to non anointed Christians. He was telling everyone to do it, not a select number who magically know they're anointed but can't tell you how they know.
+2 / -0
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 17 hours ago
The 144,000 is a symbolic code. 1+4+4+0 = 9, which is a sacred number to ancient followers of Hermetcism/ Sacred Geometry.
DD
+1 / -0
Listener
Listener 14 hours ago
The other sheep are simply assisting the anointed. They do recognize that it is the anointed that has been given the responsibility of preaching/teaching but since they have asked the other sheep, the other sheep are required to be obedient to the anointed and assist them carrying out this work.
W07 11/1
This is so because he uses the anointed to proclaim the Kingdom message. The “other sheep” help in bringing spiritual refreshment to people by actively supporting the anointed in the preaching work. (John 10:16) What a privilege it is to share in this work, which brings true refreshment to others!
However, it gets even more interesting when you consider that not long ago they viewed the other sheep as their 'belongings' in relation to the FDS parable. They are no longer belongings but 'domestics' but as 'belongings' they believed this applied -
W08 8/15
GOD’S WORD identifies anointed Christians who are caring for Christ’s interests on earth as “the faithful and discreet slave.” When Christ inspected the “slave” in 1918, he found those anointed ones on earth to be faithful in providing spiritual “food at the proper time.” Hence, Jesus, the Master, was pleased thereafter to appoint them “over all his belongings.” (Read Matthew 24:45-47.) In this way, before receiving a heavenly inheritance, anointed ones serve other worshippers of Jehovah here on earth.
2 A master has authority over his belongings, or possessions, and he can use them as he chooses. The belongings of Jesus Christ, Jehovah’s enthroned King, embrace all Kingdom interests on earth. That includes “a great crowd” seen by the apostle John in vision. ...
3 Members of that great crowd are among those referred to by Jesus as his “other sheep.” (John 10:16) Their hope is to live forever on a paradise earth. ....
4 .... They are not independent but willing to serve under the direction of the heavenly King and his anointed brothers on earth.
5 Anointed Christians have met and will continue to meet severe opposition from Satan’s world. Nevertheless, they can rely on the support of their companions of the great crowd. While anointed Christians are now few in number, the great crowd yearly increases by hundreds of thousands. The anointed are unable to oversee personally each of the some 100,000 Christian congregations throughout the world. Thus, one aspect of the support that the anointed receive from the other sheep is that qualified men of the great crowd serve as congregation elders. They help care for the millions of Christians now entrusted to “the faithful and discreet slave.”
6 The willing support given to anointed Christians by their companions of the other sheep was foretold by the prophet Isaiah. He wrote: “This is what Jehovah has said: ‘The unpaid laborers of Egypt and the merchants of Ethiopia and the Sabeans, tall men, will themselves come over even to you, and yours they will become. Behind you they will walk.’” (Isa. 45:14) In a symbolic way, Christians with an earthly hope today walk behind the anointed slave class and its Governing Body, following their leadership. As “unpaid laborers,” the other sheep willingly and wholeheartedly expend their strength and their resources in support of the worldwide preaching work that Christ assigned to his anointed followers on earth.—Acts 1:8; Rev. 12:17.
7 ... By exercising faith and displaying loyalty now, he shows that he will respond well when the King gives him directions in the new world.
+2 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 13 hours ago
They were not anointed for "heavenly life" until Pentecost 33CE.....
so up until then, they were of the "earthly class"....right??
+2 / -0
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 7 hours ago
Does anyone else want to puke when reading WT articles? Since no one is appointed over the "belongings" yet, how can the above article be taken seriously? I guess the GB are saying, " We are the boss of you, just because."
Of course, that's how cults operate. LET'S REVIEW: ....................
DD
pbrow
pbrow 2 hours ago
Those are excellent points.
Right before my kids have to go to the memorial with their mother I always ask them "what does jesus tell you to do with the wine and bread? and what do the elders tell you to do with the wine and bread?... Who should you listen to?"
If you are a christian and beleive the bible holds any weight, those two questions pretty much destroy any credence to the "sit and pass" mentality of the dubs.
pbrow
+1 / -0
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/ if you had the slightest of doubt about leaving leaving the watchtower org. go to to jwsurvey.org NOW!
/
if you had the slightest of doubt about leaving leaving the watchtower org. go to to jwsurvey.org NOW!
by nowwhat? 20 hours ago 29 Replies latest 6 hours ago watchtower scandals
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nowwhat?
nowwhat? 20 hours ago
and we are suposed to trust these guys with our lives?!
+2 / -0
Magnum
Magnum 18 hours ago
Are you referring to something specific - like the front page article on the Telly Awards?
+1 / -0
nowwhat?
nowwhat? 18 hours ago
The phony telly awards
+2 / -0
Magnum
Magnum 18 hours ago
OK, thanks. I'm still digesting that article. If it's accurate, then it does help to erase any doubts I might have about leaving.
+3 / -0
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 18 hours ago
http://jwsurvey.org/general-information/watchtower-stoops-to-new-low-purchases-telly-awards-statuettes-and-publishes-phony-quote-on-jw-org
+1 / -0
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 17 hours ago
It seems as though any of us could pay for a Telly award. Am I understanding the article correctly? I could make a YouTube video on....Dolphin sex and submit my "entry" to the Telly awards and "win."
Also, can anyone post the fake quote that all the winners use? I'm restricted to an I-phone and could barely read the quotes from the other "winners." LOL!!
These a-holes have no shame!! I have to read this article again. It's mind-boggling. Great job JWSurvey!!!
One more thing. Imagine having your own Telly award in your house. Wouldn't it be great to show it off when the dubs start bragging? LOL!!!
DD
+7 / -0
Dunedain
Dunedain 17 hours ago
If you read that article, it REALLY shows how hypocritical the WTS is.
For DECADES, they have been condemning, idolatry, and this "worldly" system. Yet they, proudly, boastfully, hypocritically, and falsely, promote themselves with a LITERAL GOLDEN IDOL, from a "worldly" organization.
How dare they. This version of the GB, is the most blatant group of power hungry, deceitful, evil bastards, ever to sit in the throne rooms of Brooklyn.
Not only does this version of the GB, tell you to eat their shit, but they also make you have to tell them it tastes good too. SCREW YOU, you crusty old bastards, you have NO hold on my life anymore.
+14 / -0
sparky1
sparky1 17 hours ago
WOW................
I just took a brief look around the TELLY Awards website! VERY, VERY,VERY prestigious award for any organization to receive. 2015 Online Video Silver Winners were:
Sterling Jewelers of Cleveland, OH for a video on Jewelry care Tips!
YMCA GTA of Calgary, Alberta for a video on The YMCA Annual Report!
When will these Jackasses stop embarrassing themselves with inflated, self important claims. I am actually embarrassed for the ignorant Witnesses still in that swallow this stuff hook, line and sinker.
+8 / -1
dubstepped
dubstepped 17 hours ago
It just goes with their modus operandi of keeping up appearances. That is all they care about. They are the most vain people, looking good on the outside and lacking any depth whatsoever.
+9 / -0
cha ching
cha ching 17 hours ago
What happened? I guess I cannot post those pics, sorry...
cha ching
cha ching 17 hours ago
Hi everyone......
+1 / -0
cha ching
cha ching 17 hours ago
oooops!
+1 / -0
William Penwell
William Penwell 17 hours ago
What happened to the organization that told us to have nothing to do with "worldly" things?
+3 / -0
berrygerry
berrygerry 17 hours ago
I found it hard to count, but NASA and its divisions won about 64 Telly's.
(Each letter on the recipient page loads about 20 entries per page - it takes a while.
I tried loading ALL, but it doesn't load for me. It looks like there are 1,000's of recipients.
WT's newspage says "Out of 12,000 entrants" Could be 12,000 "winners.")
+4 / -0
Skedaddle
Skedaddle 16 hours ago
That old "keep your eyes on the prize" hall tune is now in my head!
+3 / -0
ZAPPA-ESQUE
ZAPPA-ESQUE 14 hours ago
I have just done a mass - mail out of this well written expose' to all Dubs [all in ] on my mailing list - which includes Bethelites -
Next step are the Newspapers - Maybe, just maybe a journo will bite and run with an article on it !
+9 / -0
Coded Logic
Coded Logic 14 hours ago
If you look on the Telly website for the 2015 Silver award for Online Videos they have literally HUNDREDS of winners. Here's a link to a page that just has the winners beginning with A:
https://www.tellyawards.com/winners/list/?event=16&category=3&award=S
It looks like anyone can be a "winner" if you just pay them the $150 entry fee and then another $300 for the statue. So disgusting!
+4 / -0
Anders Andersen
Anders Andersen 14 hours ago
And even if this Phoney Fakey Award were actually the real Emmy awards: WHY would Jesus Christ ever want to pay to compete in order to show off how good you are?
Didn't he teach us anything about humility n stuff?
Everything the RF do is because of Jehovah, but the bORg gladly pays to be able to tout their own horn...
I guess fallout from this one is easy to contain:
"Some brother in video dept got carried away and signed up for the award without asking. He thought it was only a library card. Oh wait...eh..."
+4 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 13 hours ago
Funny how they are happy to be listed alongside other winners who specialise in business dealings, or wholeistic health practices, or immoral activities...
Hmm..Thought we should be NO PART of the world??
+3 / -0
ScenicViewer
ScenicViewer 12 hours ago
So, the Telly company sells you trophies under the guise of making you think you won something?
That is such a PERFECT TOOL for Watchtower to delude Jehovah's Witnesses with!
+1 / -0
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/ if you had the slightest of doubt about leaving leaving the watchtower org. go to to jwsurvey.org NOW!
/
if you had the slightest of doubt about leaving leaving the watchtower org. go to to jwsurvey.org NOW!
by nowwhat? 20 hours ago 29 Replies latest 6 hours ago watchtower scandals
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Funchback
Funchback 10 hours ago
http://blog.pelland.com/2011/06/11/an-award-is-an-award-or-is-it/
...We also received a similar direct mail piece from the Telly Awards. According to their website, they received 14,000 entries last year from small agencies that were hoping to promote their businesses, each paying a minimum entry fee of $85.00. Do the math. That means that this questionable award generated at least $1,190,000.00 for its promoters! Want to, once again, add insult to injury? If you “win” one of these dubious awards, you will be automatically charged an additional $170.00 for your award statuette (probably plastic) and your certificate. I guess this is a bargain compared to the Davey Awards, since the minimum entry fee is slightly less, and you will pay $5.00 less for your statuette if you “win”. It is no surprise that, if you search for “Telly Awards scam” on Google, there are currently 24,400 search results. The Telly Awards and Davey Awards are not alone in preying upon start-up companies that are eager (or desperate) to broaden their exposure. They are joined by the Webby Awards and many, many other questionable enterprises that appear to be in the business of generating entry fees and selling statuettes. Do you think that anyone who wins an Emmy, Academy Award, or Grammy pays for their award?
The above is from 2011. For the WTBTS, desperate times call for desperate measures?
+1 / -0
kookie
kookie 9 hours ago
they are trying to hoodwink the flock and public claiming they won this award for great work, they share with others that have paid to enter, not found on JW. org, they will have the JW believe that they were singled out for their great work.
The GB apostates are so deceitful, just can't express how much I despise these creeps, they lie, deceive wreck peoples lives, bludge on the flock and give a false impression of being these chosen honest FDS chosen by Christ, they are wicked.
+1 / -0
sparky1
sparky1 8 hours ago
"Nor have we been seeking glory from men, either from you or from others.............." 1 Thessalonians 2:6 RNWT
+1 / -0
sparky1
sparky1 8 hours ago
I think the whole thing is a misunderstanding. Watchtower didn't win a TELLY Award.......................they won a Teletubbie Award!
+2 / -0
chicken little
chicken little 8 hours ago
Careful Sparky that is the purple Telly tubby ... We were warned against them when in the org....possibly gay influence on our children😉
+3 / -0
nowwhat?
nowwhat? 7 hours ago
. the child abuse coverup scandal should have been enough. but now i finally have enough ammunition to leave once and for all.
so we have U.N. membership
child abuse.
revisionist histrory
failed, false prophecies
phony awards seeking glory from men
no financial transparency
+1 / -0
sir82
sir82 7 hours ago
You want a real laugh?
Here is what the JW website says:
The Telly Awards were founded in 1979 to honor outstanding television commercials and programs, video and film productions, and web videos and films. The field for 2015 was made up of over 12,000 qualifying entries produced between 2013 and 2015. “The Telly Awards has a mission to honor the very best in film and video,” said Linda Day, executive director of the Telly Awards. “The Witnesses’ accomplishment in the jw.org Newsroom illustrates their creativity, skill, and dedication to their craft and serves as a testament to great film and video production.”
Hmm, what a glowing testimonial!
I wonder if anyone else has had such high-falutin' praise?
Let me just google this part...."illustrates their creativity, skill, and dedication to their craft and serves as a testament to great film and video production"....
What do I find?
Seems that, oh, 27,000 other "winners" have "illustrated their creativity, skill, and dedication to their craft and served as a testament to great film and video production".
Impressive! JW.Borg has at least the 27,000th best video production unit in the USA!
+3 / -0
jaydee
jaydee 7 hours ago
Image result for golden poop emoji
+2 / -0
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 7 hours ago
That "quote" is the official "quote" of the Telly awards. They actually encourage their "winners" to insert their name into the "quote." Can you believe that crap??
I would post other "winners" for a comparison, but this I-phone is really inconvenient. Cedar's has some other "winners" listed on his blog. Great job, Cedars!!
DD
+2 / -0
OneEyedJoe
OneEyedJoe 6 hours ago
JW survey should submit their videos for consideration, then proudly declare that they've won the same award as the JW cult. No better way to demonstrate that they're phoney awards than by "winning" one and documenting the process that it took to get it.
+2 / -0
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and we are suposed to trust these guys with our lives?
!
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/ Cults like jw's need to be exposed for what they are.
/
Cults like jw's need to be exposed for what they are.
by atomant 7 hours ago 3 Replies latest 3 hours ago watchtower beliefs
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atomant
atomant 7 hours ago
lm surprised a documentary on world religions dealing with the specifics of each different religion hasnt been made.lm certain there would be many interested viewers.What do others think?
+2 / -0
punkofnice
punkofnice 7 hours ago
There have been the odd documentaries here and there. I think in reality, it probably isn't 'money making' TV. Nobody is really interested in religion, I'm assuming. We are interested because we are survivors of a vile cult. Mainstream folk that haven't been abused by religion really aren't all that bothered.
+2 / -0
baker
baker 3 hours ago
This one was good, but can't seem to catch them when they are on prime time tv. My partner will not watch these if they are on the internet, but if I could catch one (accidentally ) and DVR it or see it live, we could view it together and see it was not from the internet. Anyone know the next one to be broadcast?
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 3 hours ago
An overall evaluation of the Watchtower Corporation is that it has been operating and conducting itself as an apostate organization directly against Jesus's own instructions toward preaching his Gospel. Since the beginning inception of this religious publishing house it has been conducting as commercialized false prophets by the bible's own description and has shown lies and deceptions in its progressive history by its orchestrative leaders. Jehovah's Witnesses are just subordinate servants to this imposing " Commercialized " Apostasy.
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/ Worthy of imitation?
/
Worthy of imitation?
by stuckinarut2 3 hours ago 5 Replies latest 44 minutes ago watchtower bible
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stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 3 hours ago
The society says that ancient biblical characters (and their faith) are worthy of imitation right?
So let's start a list of examples:
- Lot. Selfishly took the best land. Then offered his daughters to be raped.Then committed incest with them both
-David. Warmongering and genocidal. Polygamist
- Samson. Violent.
- Aaron. Idol creator and worshiper
Please Add to the list....
+3 / -0
OneEyedJoe
OneEyedJoe 3 hours ago
They were just imperfect men! God knew their heart condition was good, thats why they didn't get punished!
Abraham - heard a voice telling him to kill his son, and actually took action in order to follow the instructions.
Elisha - asked god to kill a bunch of kids because they made a joke at his expense
freemindfade
freemindfade 2 hours ago
Sampson also banged a hooker. check it out.
+2 / -0
juandefiero
juandefiero an hour ago
Joshua - ordered the genocide of multiple tribes...men, women, children.
David's list of wrongdoing could go on and on.
But, the worst offender of all in the Bible, the most homicidal, ruthless, violent, unreasonable, narcist maniac was Jehovah himself...and the Society wants us to imitate him.
+1 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt an hour ago
If you want to see the real Bible Story of Samson - check this out - you won't be sorry.
+3 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 44 minutes ago
These should replace Caleb and Sofia.
And they actually show you what the bible says.
Part 2
Part 3
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