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Greetings from a recovering mormon
by FormerMormon 8 years ago 114 Replies latest 8 years ago   jw friends
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FormerMormon
FormerMormon 8 years ago

Greetings from the other side of the street,
I just loved having you guys proselytizing on the other side of the street when we were tracting. I am a recovering mormon with a believing spouse / family. As I am sure you know, leaving a cult can be a painful experience, especially on family ties. I don't intend to pick on JW's, but if I could get my wife to recognize a PATTERN of cult activity in the JW's, then she might be able to recognize patterns of cult activity in the mormon church. Maybe "cult" is too strong a word for some. For me, it fits.
Specifically, I would appreciate video clips of your testimony meetings. Are they called testimony meetings? When are JW testimony meetings? How would they be searched on youtube? I know at LDS testimony meetings, we were programmed to use the words "I know that..." followed by a typical list...the B of M is true, J Smith was a prophet, Gordon B Hinkley is a prophet, etc. I would like my wife to see others saying they just "know" their church is true. Then I would like to ask her, if she had been born in the other church, how would it occur to her that it was wrong or damaging.
Thanks in advance.
I hope there is a God, and I hope he helps you in your recovery.

Former Mormon
 
AlmostAtheist
AlmostAtheist 8 years ago

I don't know about equivalents to 'testimony meetings', but JW's refer to their religion as "The Truth". They will ask each other, "How did you learn the Truth?" or "How long have you been in the Truth?" They claim that the Bible interprets itself, so they don't "interpret" it -- God does. He's not very good at it, apparently, since their doctrine changes constantly. :smile:
Welcome to JWD!
Dave
 
drew sagan
drew sagan 8 years ago

Welcome to the forum!
 Don't worry, JWs use the mormons as examples all the time! Funny to see how this swings both ways.
 We will be able to provide you with a ton of info showing how similar the two faiths can be.
 
drew sagan
drew sagan 8 years ago

Just wanted to add that the biggest similarities you will find are the practices they engage in to defend their belief systems.
 - label apostate and demonic anybody that challenges their claims
 - ban the reading of certain books and magazines
 - teach people to watch the behavior of others
 There are many more. I have actually searched the LDS website and found information that is amazingly similar to the JWs.
 
momzcrazy
momzcrazy 8 years ago

Hey! Welcome to JWD. Don't worry about picking on JW's here. If you look at past posts you may be shocked. Raised in SLC here. My hubby's gfather was in the Quorum of the Twelve or something. I am even related to Brigham Young, but who isn't naughty man.
Here's a link for some things. The witnesses just call them meetings, but they each have different names. Public Talk and Watchtower discussion on Sunday. Bookstudy during the week. Theocratic Ministry School on Thursdays usually.
http://youtube.com/results?search_query=jehovah%27s+witnesses
Good luck!
momz
 
golf2
golf2 8 years ago

FM, my greetings and welcome to the forum. You'll get plenty of answers to your questions, so, hang in there.

Golf
 
FormerMormon
FormerMormon 8 years ago

Over the past year or so, LDS leaders have been saying that "yesterdays testimony will be insufficient to tomorrows challenges". A common theme I hear from time to time on post mormon groups is that the internet could spell the doom or at least greatly damage "The Church". Why? Because the internet is an information hyway. Cults thrive on disinformation. As more people become aware of actual, unsterilized church history, they leave.
People google and compare when buying a car. They do the same when investigating religion. While difficult to get an admission from "The Church", I hear baptismal rates in areas of high internet saturation are going through the floor. Are JW's seeing the same phenom?
 
onacruse
onacruse 8 years ago

Welcome FM.
Are they called testimony meetings?
Actually, many decades ago, they were called Prayer, Praise and Testimony meetings, and the standard format was to let each member of the ecclesia (as they were then called) stand up and offer whatever it was they desired. As you can imagine, not exactly a tightly structured arrangement! LOL
Eventually [edit to add: in the 1920s] that morphed into what is now known as the Service meeting, which is a tightly structured presentation of how and what to do in the public door-to-door work. No spontaneity at all.
 
drew sagan
drew sagan 8 years ago

One thing that may interest you FormerMormon is the differance in approach JWs take in regards to their history over Mormons.
 From what I understand Mormons are very open about the 'testimony' of Joseph Smith and his 'revelation' from God. This revelation is the foundation of the Church.
 The JWs have a very similar teaching. Their story goes that an invisible Jesus Christ came down out of heaven in 1918/1919 and chose them as the only true religion. This is their foundational story.
 But the JWs do not give 'testimonies' about this. If you ask a JW that comes to your door about this teaching they may try to get around asking questions about it, or even possible lie about it.
 The reason is because their technique is converting people over to theological opinions not attached to their foundational story. Over time they will get the potential member to trust them to the point where they can drop the 'whopper' story on them. By this poin the potential convert is so far on their way to joining the group the radical teaching (1919 stuff and other things) doesn't phase them.
 I think this is one of the major differences between JWs and Mormons. Mormons embrace and proclaim their revelations they believe God has given them while JWs deny that they even have any.
 
mac n cheese
mac n cheese 8 years ago

I started out on exmormon.org. The stories there were so eerily similar to my experience as a JW that I finally got the nerve to come over here. For me, it was just how you hope it goes with your wife. But I also kept quiet about what I read on exmormon,org, so I wouldn't cause trouble with my family, because they knew it was a slippery slope (internet research on religion equals BAD, APOSTATE). Best of luck with your wife, I am in the same boat with my spouse. I actually had that discussion with my spouse, asking that if they had been born a Muslim, Lutheran, Mormon or anything else, would they still stay that religion even after they discovered it wasn't the true religion? The response was "Yes, I guess so. Sad, isn't it?" There are small cracks in the armor, so patience is what you'll need most of all.
 
undercover
undercover 8 years ago

Welcome to the board.
ex-JWs and ex-MOs are kindred spirits.
The beliefs of the LDS church and the JWs/Watchtower Society may differ in a lot of ways, but the main things they have in common are the control, fear and guilt that they use to try to keep members in line.
It's funny to see JWs make fun of Mormon beliefs and then see a Mormon make fun of JW beliefs. I've known some Mormons and we used to try to outdo each other with who had the more fantasical doctrines. I always thought they were wacky, but they thought we were a cult. Looking at it now, they're both cults.

Back when I was a JW, there was one thing that I thought the Mormons did that JWs could learn from. That was the programs and activities for the youth of the congregations. The Mormons seemed to make sure that their youth had support from the church and activities planned so that families could share fun times together. The JWs have never done that. For JWs, its all about going to the meetings and going door to door. Anything outside of that and they were on their own.
Looking back retrospectively though, I have to say that not having those programs is making it easier for JW youth and young adults to get away from the religion. If they were more indoctrinated through youth programs and closer ties to the congregation, one might not ever sense that something was amiss.
 
ninja
ninja 8 years ago

hi former mormon.....I'm an up to date moron.....welcome....ninja.......p.s our God was harder to please than your God.......he he
 
drew sagan
drew sagan 8 years ago

Back when I was a JW, there was one thing that I thought the Mormons did that JWs could learn from. That was the programs and activities for the youth of the congregations. The Mormons seemed to make sure that their youth had support from the church and activities planned so that families could share fun times together. The JWs have never done that. For JWs, its all about going to the meetings and going door to door. Anything outside of that and they were on their own.
I believe this reveals how the Mormon leadership is much better prepared to grow their religion out over the long term. They invest in their youth because they are the future of the group.
 On the other hand JWs are to focused on the idea that their youth will never even grow up before "gods kingdom" arrives.
 
katiekitten
katiekitten 8 years ago

Welcome Former Mormon. It really helped me to see that other religions had as strong a faith in their brand as I had in mine, it was the start of me seeing my former faith wasnt THE ONE, but just one of many.
p.s our God was harder to please than your God
LMAO!!!
 
MikeA
MikeA 8 years ago

Greetings and welcome! I am a newbie here, too.
I have a significant mormon contingent in my family, as well. Don't ask me how it happened, but my grandfather and everyone up his side of the family was/is mormon and my grandmother (and all her side of the family) was/is JW........ They met, got married and that was that. I guess cults meet cults at times and find some serious common ground. I know they loved each other very, very much to their dying days. He was fairly high up the food chain in the mormon world, from my understanding. My grandmother had seen (and remembered) so many changes in the JW world that she never got very crazy about anything the society put out until it stood the test of serious time...... which counts out almost ANY of the serious stuff as we see it.
Anyway, one thing I can tell you is a huge difference, if my family is any indication. Where the JW's will flush family members down the toilet at the drop of a hat when that member is seen as an apostate, I cannot say the same for the mormon in my family. One person in my family, in particular, would have been tossed aside rapidly by the JW (if she had been JW), but is still loved and wanted on the mormon side, despite her avowed disassociation from that group. Nobody, but nobody in her family has tossed her aside. She does, however, get really angry about what happened (and continues to happen) to me. In fact, all the mormon in my family are really upset with how I have been treated by the JW side. Religion notwithstanding, all of the members of my "mormon" family say time and again..... FAMILY IS EVERYTHING!
Now maybe mine is a fluke, but I don't see any indication of that to tell you the truth.
 
outofthebox
outofthebox 8 years ago

Welcome to the Real World Former Mormon?
Isn't it something that the Internet is more real that our lifes as JWs or mormons? You made excelent points regarding that cults thrive on disinformation
-ootb
 
Nosferatu
Nosferatu 8 years ago

Welcome to the forum!
Just to let you know, my mother is a JW and her brother is a Mormon. They always fail to wake each other up when they argue about why their religion is the true religion.
 
steve2
steve2 8 years ago

Do recovering mormons fall off the wagon the way recovering alcoholics do? And if they do, do they typically binge on the book of Mormon for several hours until their support workers rescue them from the dreaded book and give them a medical detox? Just wondering ...
 
drew sagan
drew sagan 8 years ago

my mother is a JW and her brother is a Mormon.
Now there is the plot to a new hit sitcom if i've ever heard one. I can see it now...
 "He's a Mormon, she's a Jehovah's Witness. Now this 'brother and sister' team have to work together in raising their long lost nephew. Can they make it happen? Find out on a brand new episode of 'Knocked Around' "
 
TD
TD 8 years ago

Greetings FM and welcome,
JW's don't have an equivalent of the Fast and Testimony meeting. The closest the JW's come to this type of extempor are the question and answer study sessions of the Watchtower (A church periodical vaguely similar to Ensign) The study conductor (A lay minister roughly correspondent to Bishop) poses scripted questions to the audience and they are expected to express the expected answers from the study material in their own words.
I believe both the LDS and JW approach have a similar intended effect.
 

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Greetings from a recovering mormon
by FormerMormon 8 years ago 114 Replies latest 8 years ago   jw friends
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FormerMormon
FormerMormon 8 years ago

Here is my story as a Moron.
I was born in the lds church, am in 40's, returned missionary, married in the temple, still active and HATING IT. I w as horribly scarred in primary(youth group) at the age of 5 with a hell fire damnation sermon. For weeks I remember being consumed with fear... knowing I MUST FORCE MYSELF TO DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO AVOID THE HELL THEY MENTIONED. The brain damage got worse at 7 (grandma died) when I was introduced to the horribly irresponsible and poorly defined subject of becoming a son of perdition. (No forgiveness if you deny the Holy Ghost--cast into outer darkness) I seriously heard voices "denying the Holy Ghost", and scarring the S**T out of me. Had I become a SOP??? I created a desired "righteous self" and a much feared "wicked possibility self". Suicide, and the like, were feared potentialities, not that I wanted it, but it was part of my feared possible wicked self. My mind could never "make the deal" and allow myself to think I was righteous, when logic dictated otherwise.

I have never committed any of the church "biggies", except when I fail to do hometeaching and thereby assuming their blood and sins for three generations. Mission was HELL. I was a workaholic, but could never could become "THE MACHINE" I was told I should be.

I had been too scared to leave the church, even though it was a consistent reminder of what a worm I am. Desperate to find answers, I turned to FARMS (an apologetics group affiliated with BYU). While researching different subjects on hell fire damnation, I come across apologetics for the Book of Abraham, Kinderhook, Zina and think WTF??? I've never heard this before.

For awhile, I tried to justify Zina's, Brigham and Joseph's polyandry with "we are children. God is the adult and can do adult things, like polyandry... or even the conception of Jesus". In the back pages of LDS doctrine, Brigham Young taught that Jesus was concieved by the physical UNION of a presumably married father god and the single girlfriend of a mortal man(Mary). --The very definitions of adultery and fornication. I am glad I wasn't Joseph, Mary's other sex partner. Joseph Smith shared other men's wives. What is it with the name Joseph and wife sharing anyway??? I have no feelings of marital inadequacies, but if I knew my new brides (Mary) last lover was GOD, I think I might just be a little intimidated. Ladies, you know once you have HADA GOD, you can never... (and you JW's thought you had some whacky doctrines)

I then start reading writing from the founders, Jefferson, Franklin and Thomas Paine (blessed be his name). I start to think, maybe the church is not AS TRUE as it has been presented to me. Then an amazing thing happened, I STARTED FEELING LEVELS OF SANITY I HAVE NEVER FELT BEFORE IN MY LIFE. I admitted the possibility that it might not be true.

Anymore when I go to church(with the wife), I look around and think how pathetic it is. The wife is TBM and whenever I bring up church history she SCREAMS "I don't know, I wasn't there, I don't care... the church is true". Strangely, when she blows up about this, she usually comes back within the hour very lovey dovey. I am looking at how to phase out and keep the family intact. I DONT WANT MY POSTERITY TO HAVE THE S**T SCARED OUT OF THEM AS I WAS. I do miss the assurance of an afterlife, validity of eternal families, celestial kingdom, etc. I want them to be true, but can't see how they can be, given the mountain of evidence, and the character of the "revelators" who restored these "truths".

I recently read an article on how organized religion CAUSES insanity. I bear witness that I know that the article is true and that organized religion causes mental illness and I say these things in the name of Thomas Paine, Amen.

"Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system." Thomas Paine, Age of Reason
 
drew sagan
drew sagan 8 years ago

JW's don't have an equivalent of the Fast and Testimony meeting.
I do think their "theocratic school and service meeting" is kind of similar. There are certain points where the audience is encouraged to share stories of the field ministry and such. But it is not a weekly thing, only appearing as part of the program from time to time. From what I understand the Fast and Testimony meeting can be a bit more casual and emotional, while the JWs are pretty dry in the way they go about it.
 
drew sagan
drew sagan 8 years ago

Anymore when I go to church(with the wife), I look around and think how pathetic it is. The wife is TBM and whenever I bring up church history she SCREAMS "I don't know, I wasn't there, I don't care... the church is true". Strangely, when she blows up about this, she usually comes back within the hour very lovey dovey. I am looking at how to phase out and keep the family intact. I DONT WANT MY POSTERITY TO HAVE THE S**T SCARED OUT OF THEM AS I WAS. I do miss the assurance of an afterlife, validity of eternal families, celestial kingdom, etc. I want them to be true, but can't see how they can be, given the mountain of evidence, and the character of the "revelators" who restored these "truths".
I went through such a similar thing. My wife held on to the JWs because of the emotion, I was sad in loosing the 'security' I thought I had. Eventually she opened up and we both left the JWs togeather.
 Giver her time, it will work out.
 Thanks so much for sharing your story.
 
nvrgnbk
nvrgnbk 8 years ago


ex-JWs and ex-MOs are kindred spirits.
Exactly, undercover.
Welcome, FormerMormon.
I enjoy lurking on Further Light And Knowledge
http://www.thefoyer.org/
Do you post there?
 

 
TD
TD 8 years ago

Hi Drew,
From what I understand the Fast and Testimony meeting can be a bit more casual and emotional, while the JWs are pretty dry in the way they go about it.
I've only been to one and that was years ago. To me there seemed to be a certain canned quality to it. --Words and phrases you could tell the participants had picked up from church literature. It reminded me of JW comments at their Watchtower and book studies, but I think you're right. You would notice the same thing at any JW meeting that had audience participation.
 
dinah
dinah 8 years ago

Nice to meet you FormerMorman,
There are alot of similarities. I remember when I was researching several years ago I found seven religions that were connected. I remember Morman, JW, Seventh Day Advent, Christadelphian, and Worldwide Church of God being connected through Russell somehow--can't remember the others and dont feel like searching for my notebook.
It's a small world.
 
FormerMormon
FormerMormon 8 years ago

Thanks all for your thoughts. Ninja, your dog may be harder to please but my Karma ran over your Dogma.
I had stewed in the church for years. I could never come to grips with it's use of extreme hope and fear. It seemed that leaders could say or do anything as long as it was felt that it would shove the sheeple in the right direction, get more work out of them etc. When I called them on their particular choice of threatening words, they would blow it off by saying stuff like "there are times when the prophet speaks as a prophet and times when he speaks as a man". Other radical statements were blown off with "That's more of a saying or couplet than doctrine".
My "aha" moments came when I read about some troubling lds history. Some of the troubling stuff I found was:
Joseph's Myth went behind husbands back, explaining "celestial marriage" to their wives and then married them.
Joesph's Myth translated a forgery known as the Kinderhook Plates (wiki it)
The Papyrus that Joe translated the Book of Abraham from were rediscovered in 1967. They have nothing to do with Abraham.
Brigham Young asked for and married the wife of Henry Jacobs, without a divorce. She was 8 months pregnant when she "married" brigham.
Joe married women behind Emma's back and without her permission as prescribed by "scripture".
I believe in the golden rule. What these men did SOOOO egregiously violated that, I couldn't see any way a loving god would channel through these a$$holes.
I have seen too many changes in church "scripture". Significant changes. I have read the many accounts and seen the evolution of the first vision story. I don't like clandestine changes. Then there were the changes to the temple ceremony. OMG.... I didn't like how church leaders history was so scrubbed of anything negative. We are to never question or speak evil of the prophet... and so their deification is assured. I hated reading their stories, because I just didn't measure up. I didn't always have the "spirit" to be with me, like they did.
I would like to be able to show my wife the disturbing, unconscionable actions by leaders. Scrubbing and sanitizing history. Changing / evolving doctrines. Changing scripture. False prophecies.
I don't want to read anything into your history, but do you have examples or resources or stories demonstrating these things?
Thanks, and yes, we are kindred spirits.
 
onacruse
onacruse 8 years ago


I would like to be able to show my wife the disturbing, unconscionable actions by leaders. Scrubbing and sanitizing history. Changing / evolving doctrines. Changing scripture. False prophecies.
I don't want to read anything into your history, but do you have examples or resources or stories demonstrating these things?
How many terabytes of storage capacity do you have on your computer? LOL
 
ProdigalSon
ProdigalSon 8 years ago

Hello FormerMormon
You probably know by now that the Mormons and JW's were funded and founded by the same Rothschild/Illuminati money. If there's any mind-control cult more dangerous than the Watchtower I think its the Mormons.
Not to worry, you found your way here and you are well on your way to recovery.
ProdigalSon
 
saywhat29
saywhat29 8 years ago

I just wanted to say that I thought you guys had it better; I wanted a bike instead of being stuck in a smelly ol' car group! I would be stuck in a car with a 'stain' in the back seat of some sort that my obsessive personality could not ignore.

And being able to just wear a tie and a white shirt and black slacks- awesom! Three piece suits and what not?
Not awesome. I remember being told that it was important that we wear our jackets as to not get confused with you guys.
when realy the householder, if interested just had to pick which type of crazy they wanted whenever they ran into our messages.
Welcome, by the way!
 
drew sagan
drew sagan 8 years ago

TD
 If you've been to one Fast and Testimony meeting that's more than I ever have! (thank goodness) This Wikipedia article mentions a little about the meetings. From what it says it seems like the LDS leadership wants them to be more in the style of JW meetings, boring.
FormerMormon
 There is a well researched paper floating around the internet called "Historical Idealism and Jehovah's Witnesses". Do a google search for it. I think that is exactly what you are looking for.
 
drew sagan
drew sagan 8 years ago

You probably know by now that the Mormons and JW's were funded and founded by the same Rothschild/Illuminati money. If there's any mind-control cult more dangerous than the Watchtower I think its the Mormons.
Watch out for the soul sucking reptilian bloodline!!!!
 
FormerMormon
FormerMormon 8 years ago

You probably know by now that the Mormons and JW's were funded and founded by the same Rothschild/Illuminati money. If there's any mind-control cult more dangerous than the Watchtower I think its the Mormons.
Watch out for the soul sucking reptilian bloodline!!!! Drew, Rothchild / illuminati money founding the mormons? I knew the Rothchilds were evil, but NOT THAT EVIL!!! I hadn't ever heard that before.
 
Magick
Magick 8 years ago

WELCOME!
I don't know much about mormons except the little I learned as a witness on the inaccuracies of their book of mormon compared to the bible. and...locally we have more than our share of (cute young boys on bikes)...i have witnessed (pardon the pun) those cute mormon boys at the internet room searching "fast cars" "nakid women" and "asian cartoon porn" it was then i realized they were just people like me.
here's an interesting article i found on the web. don't know how accurate it is...what do you think?
 
JK666
JK666 8 years ago

FM,
Welcome to JWD! It sounds like we have the same $hit, just a different religion!
JW's dont even say they are Jehovah's Witnesses, They say they are "in The Truth!"
Look around here and see the other similarities.
JK
 
undercover
undercover 8 years ago

It's bad enough that the Mormons and JWs share some of the cult like practices that keep their followers enslaved to them. I don't think we need to try to lump them together in some kind of Illuminati conspiracy.
Just look at the doctrines that are easy to disprove, the history of scandals and false predictions and the hurtful policies in place today. That's all you need to show that either of the religions are BS. Avoid the conspiracy theories that can't be proven.
 
drew sagan
drew sagan 8 years ago

For the record, I was being sarcastic about the Illuminati. David Ike gives me the creeps (and the giggles).
 
undercover
undercover 8 years ago

I caught your sarcasm, Drew...
I'm not so sure ProdigalSon was being sarcastic...
 
KW13
KW13 8 years ago

I think some of the ideas you've got like opening your the eyes of your spouse to the Mormons by comparing to JW's are brilliant. IT can take years to free a mind though, so be patient and don't push past your wifes limit as it can have quite a negative effect on your relationship and family life. Overall, do your best to be happy, upbeat, positive and as constructive as you can be. Congratulations on getting your freedom and Welcome to JWD.
 
changeling
changeling 8 years ago

Welcome! It's great to have you here!
Consider yourself lucky for having been a Mormon and not a JW. JW's are way creepier.
changeling
 

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Topic Summary
greetings from the other side of the street,.
i just loved having you guys proselytizing on the other side of the street when we were tracting.
i am a recovering mormon with a believing spouse / family.



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Greetings from a recovering mormon
by FormerMormon 8 years ago 114 Replies latest 8 years ago   jw friends
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Qcmbr
Qcmbr 8 years ago

Dang I wish we had been funded by the Illuminati. The church was broke for the first part its life thanks to the mob rule of early US history. I do believe the US owes the LDS church swathes of land that was stolen from them.
Recovering Mormon dude I'm watching for any sensationalism - now go do some home teaching:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
 
Junction-Guy
Junction-Guy 8 years ago

Hello and welcome to JWD.

I have a couple of questions

1. How do former and recovering Mormons view the possibility of Mitt Romney as president? Do you believe that most former Mormons (especially those who still retain a belief in God) would vote for the opposing candidate, even if it be Hillary Clinton?

2. Do you notice any concrete,real world damage to children raised as Mormons. Example---We as Jehovah's Witnesses were raised almost completely separated from our "worldly" peers, we were denied college educations, forbidden almost all normal childhood activities such as school sports, dating, boy scouts. Just about everything that most American youth take for granted, we were denied.
Does mormonism compare to JW's in this aspect?
 
seven006
seven006 8 years ago

FM,
It’s good to have an active ex-Mormon on the board. Could you answer a few questions for me. Not any kind of (prove it, cuz you’re wrong JW bullshit) type question but a few that come from what can be looked at as a collaboration of logical concepts.
I am in complete agreement with your thoughts and technique regarding your wife and the “other guy’s apostates”. After all, in her mind, the JW religion and the JW apostates can’t both be wrong if they are in complete disagreement with each other. Same goes for the JW’s thoughts on and Mormonism. Not to mention the Scientologist, Christian Scientist, Adventist, Amish, etc.
So, What’s the latest on the ex-Mormon take of the two different Hill Cumorahs and DNA issues?
Take care and welcome,
Dave
 
queasy
queasy 8 years ago

I was just listening to Sandra Tanner speaking on the bible answer man, on the internet today (Gooogle it), it was a great discussion.
I have mormon missionary friends and know other ex mormons.
Great to hear that you got out, it is a truely difficult time leaving the cults, in particular the JW/Mormon movements.
Hope your family follow you eventually
 
dogisgod
dogisgod 8 years ago

Are you voting FOR Marie Osmond?
 
Shawn10538
Shawn10538 8 years ago

WELCOME!
 
mamochan13
mamochan13 8 years ago

Welcome.
Years ago I read the book of Mormon. At the time I remember thinking "who would believe this kind of nonsense?" Of course I was still blinded by JW dogma.
I am curious about mormon beliefs - one thing I've noticed among my mormon acquaintances that is not true of Jws (or others for that matter) is that they seem to have really strong families. I always wondered how they managed to keep their families so close and admired them for it.
Southpark did a very funny show targetting Mormons. I can't recall the details offhand, but it did get to the heart of some of the more "out there" beliefs, as Southpark will do.
I have a cousin who was raised Salvation Army. As an adult she's left the faith and seems to share many of the issues we do. So I guess there is a commonality to the "escape from the cult" experience, even though there are many differences.
 
KW13
KW13 8 years ago

i remember the southpark episode...loved that one...dumb dumb dumb dumb....lol
watch it live here - http://www.southparkzone.com/episodes/712/All-about-the-Mormons?.html
 
sass_my_frass
sass_my_frass 8 years ago

Hi and welcome. Isn't it liberating to know how very much the same we all turned out to be? We think our experience is so unique, but it really isn't.
Hope you're ok.
 
FormerMormon
FormerMormon 8 years ago

Hello again.
Wow. I thought I was going to hell for posting at postmormon. I'm REALLY in for it by talking to you heathens. You do know we are supposed to be mutually exclusive!! How can I think I am better than you if my church isn't true??? Damn... I'll have to find another reason.
re: illuminati. While I believe conspiracies do exist, I think there is a lot of unsubstantiated rumours about them. Mormons are big into geneology. I descend from a cousin of ole Joe. I can trace my geneology back to Adam 7 times (If bible and royal family histories can be believed). I have never heard of any maravignian (sp?) bloodline. I agree with other posters. There is SOOOO much else to hang the mormon religion with. Why use the unsubstantiated or speculative?
I am a recent former mormon. I was true blue 5 months ago. Even before then, I didn't care for Mitt Romney. He is a big government wishy washy abortionist. No thank you. I know many mormons have a near orgasm at the thought of having a mormon president. I saw quite a few eyes glaze over when I would ask fellow mormons about his big state health care and changing positions on gays and abortion. Cognitive dissonance works well for Mitt in the LDS church.
Mormons do the Boy Scout, civic involvement thing. I have a college degree, if you accept BYU as a real college. For me, the church gave me some serious brain damage growing up as a child. As long as people don't actually believe the words and doctrines being taught, the mormon church would be a great place to raise a family---on one condition. The mormon church is an all or nothing entity. You are either all in, or going to hell. If you can manage not to believe that crap, you run into the problem I have recently run into-- the mixed family. Because of my newfound disbelief, and my honesty with myself, I will not lie to get a temple recommend so I can go to relatives weddings, etc. The mormons are very pro family, as long as everyone in the family is "in line" with the church. I will note that the pro family thing is a RECENT and conditionally healthy change for the mormons. My great great grandmother was young and in love when church leadership told her it was god's will she marry this old fart instead. She did. Years later, as the family story goes, a black horsedrawn carrige drove up to the farm. GGgrandma came out and said to her young children "kids, I'd like you to meet your father." It was time for another insemination. You CANNOT tell me that was pro family.
The exmormon take on DNA and two Cumorah's is...(ready with the drum roll)... The LDS church is a damn heresy. The indians did not descend from the hebrews. Two huge precolumbian civilizations did not extinguish themselves in battle on a militarily insignificant hill in Joseph's backyard. (without leaving ANY evidence.)
Marie who?? She has had more last names than Zina Huntington Jacobs Smith Young.
So what are the BIG unconscionable acts by leaders, the big false prophecies, the big "sanitizing of history etc of your former faith? Are there heart wrenching stories of great pain, deception and mental damage? I'd like to know what doozy stories I can tell the wife to prepare her to hear the same in my church. (the "FORCE" of cognitive dissonance runs strong in my family) -- Oh wait... were you guys allowed to see Star Wars???
 
drew sagan
drew sagan 8 years ago

FormerMormon
 In addition to reading the research paper I mentioned eairler (which you should be able to find on the internet for free) I would suggest you read the book "Crisis of Conscience. I think that will give you more than enough stories to work from
 The writer of the book, Raymond Franz, was on the Watchtowers highest council, the governing body. It is similar to your prophets, but not quite. Anyway he left the group wrote about his experiences. His website is CommentaryPress.com. His second book (In Search of Christian Freedom) is good as well, but is more doctrine oriented. That said it could give you great insight in how the JWs are similar in the poor arguments and reasonings they use to make their case.
 Thanks for sharing your story, I find it quite interesting!
 -Drew
 
Witness 007
Witness 007 8 years ago

Witnesses say; "The bible is our only source of beliefs and Jesus is our only leader"
Witnesses DO: "The Governing Body in New York Tells us how to live, e.g sexual positions that are banned, contraceptions that are aceptable. Can we own wind-chimes or play Chess, etc. EVERYTHING!! Most of it is not based on the bible. These are our leaders.
We often make fun of Mormon Prophets who one day say "Poligamy is good" and ten years latter "poligamy is banned" but we have the same thing. Governing Body rules1979 "Organ Transplant is Cannibalism and banned." 1980 "Organ Transplant is Okay."
 
FormerMormon
FormerMormon 8 years ago

Drew,
I tried finding a copy of Historical Idealism and Jehovah's Witnesses. The only one I could find was on a catholic forum website and that link was dead. Do you have another link?
Thanks.
 
drew sagan
drew sagan 8 years ago

We often make fun of Mormon Prophets who one day say "Poligamy is good" and ten years latter "poligamy is banned" but we have the same thing. Governing Body rules1979 "Organ Transplant is Cannibalism and banned." 1980 "Organ Transplant is Okay."
A key point to notice in how JWs use tricky definitions to get around tough issues.
 The Watchtower will make a big deal saying that "we are not prophets!" but what differance does it make when you demand that your followers treat you like one?". JWs view their leaders just as the mormons view their prophets, but they feel better about it because they don't use the word prophet.
 
drew sagan
drew sagan 8 years ago

FormerMormon
 Send me a PM with your email and I can send it over to you this evening.
 
Big Tex
Big Tex 8 years ago

The wife is TBM and whenever I bring up church history she SCREAMS "I don't know, I wasn't there, I don't care... the church is true". Strangely, when she blows up about this, she usually comes back within the hour very lovey dovey. I am looking at how to phase out and keep the family intact. I DONT WANT MY POSTERITY TO HAVE THE S**T SCARED OUT OF THEM AS I WAS. I do miss the assurance of an afterlife, validity of eternal families, celestial kingdom, etc. I want them to be true, but can't see how they can be, given the mountain of evidence, and the character of the "revelators" who restored these "truths".
Sounds familiar to me. I left my True Religion () in 1989 and for 13 years my wife was as adamant as what you describe.
Forgive me, but missing the assurance of the church truths is part of the grieving process -- an exit if you will from what was, to what is. You are in transition from what you wanted to believe, but could not, to what you truly are. It can be a frightening process. Having gone through it, I feel for you.
Howdy and welcome.

Chris
 
Paralipomenon
Paralipomenon 8 years ago

I checked out the ex-Mormon forum and had to laugh. They are referred to as apostates and reference the LDS as "morg".
Kindred spirits indeed.
In my research, Mormon's have a definitely weirder belief structure than witnesses. But to make up for this, they provide more for their "flock" through church inspired social programs.
Witnesses are a meat grinder. Everyone is tossed into the machine and money and new converts come out. This money is reinvested in making the machine more efficient.
Sorry FormorMormon, while witnesses have had some weird doctrinal thoughts, if your wife can justify the hollow earth theory, nothing in the witnesses will even phase her.
 
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 8 years ago

Be careful fellow posters Recovering Mormon either knows little about LDS real doctrine or he is yanking your chain - I can call him on several obvious oopsies.
 
SusanHere
SusanHere 8 years ago

I agree. This "recovering mormon" is a poser. You guys are being led down the garden path by your noses and don't even know it.
He has obvious doctrinal errors right from the beginning of his sob story. As JW's you aren't catching them, but anybody who is or has been LDS knows better that to buy into it. Just one example: As a child he was terrified by the hellfire and brimstone teachings. Guess what? Mormons don't believe in hellfire. Mormons don't believe in brimstone. If he was actually terrified by those teachings as a child, it was NOT at an LDS Church meeting.
Far more likely, he never experienced this terrifying event at all, but it makes a great story and gains all sorts of sympathy for his supposedly tragic cultic upbringing.
The more he says, the deeper he wades in the made-up hogwash of his own imaginations coupled with quotes from anti-LDS sites that anyone can easily access if they want to. I could list a dozen more examples of things that COULD NOT have happened to him in the Mormon church and COULD NOT have been taught to him in the Mormon church.
He's jerking your chain, the same has this same poster has done several times in the past, until he was caught in his web of deceit and people finally wised up to his game.
Believe him or not. It's your choice.

SusanHere
 
FormerMormon
FormerMormon 8 years ago

Hollow earth theory? I have heard the term. I haven't seen anything in the history of the church, jornal of discourses, mellenial star etc.
As far as a poser???? I Give you Mosiah chapter 3:
23 And now I have spoken the words which the Lord God hath commanded me.
24 And thus saith the Lord: They shall stand as a bright testimony against this people, at the judgment day; whereof they shall be judged, every man according to his a works, whether they be good, or whether they be evil. 25 And if they be evil they are consigned to an awful a view of their own guilt and abominations, which doth cause them to shrink from the presence of the Lord into a state of b misery and c endless torment, from whence they can no more return; therefore they have drunk damnation to their own souls. 26 Therefore, they have drunk out of the a cup of the wrath of God, which justice could no more deny unto them than it could deny that b Adam should fall because of his partaking of the forbidden c fruit; therefore, d mercy could have claim on them no more forever. 27 And their a torment is as a b lake of fire and brimstone, whose flames are unquenchable, and whose smoke ascendeth up c forever and ever. Thus hath the Lord commanded me. Amen. Go to postmormon.org. I am poster "Laman and Lemon". Do you want me to say "Hi" for you there? Read about the fear. Read about the blood oaths in the temple. If you think I am yanking your chain, then call away on how you think I have misrepresented a church I have been in my whole 41 years. Cheers
 

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Topic Summary
greetings from the other side of the street,.
i just loved having you guys proselytizing on the other side of the street when we were tracting.
i am a recovering mormon with a believing spouse / family.



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Greetings from a recovering mormon
by FormerMormon 8 years ago 114 Replies latest 8 years ago   jw friends
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Junction-Guy
Junction-Guy 8 years ago

Im wondering if the no-hellfire doctrine has always been this way, or if the Mormons changed their beliefs on this, under the guise of new light-similar to JW's.
 
erynw
erynw 8 years ago


 
flipper
flipper 8 years ago

Welcome Former Mormon to the board- Alot of caring , non-judgemental people here ! I agree that most all religions cause mental illness as you stated !  Although my wife and I take it a step further and feel that most religions are cults !  Most of them want to control their members minds. If you have a chance read Steve Hassan's , " Combatting Cult Mind Control ". Very informative and interesting. Peace out to you, and welcome friend, Mr. & Mrs. Flipper
 
FormerMormon
FormerMormon 8 years ago

Poser?? Sorry but the accusation just pisses me off. I have been posting at postmormon for a little while... never have I been accused of not knowing lds doctrine. If THEY haven't caught a poser, how would a JW??? What damage do I seek by posting here? Warning JW's against mormonism?? Maybe you are a true blue Mormon. I thought the MO of cults was to whiplash people between hope and extreme fear. Maybe you think the mormons dont use the fear component??? No hell??Maybe they use a Hope/Hope approach in their version of being a cult. Maybe you think mormons aren't a cult? If you are trying to give me a good reason to think exmo's are better than ex JW's... No, I think there are better people than that here. We all (I think) are seeking healing from cults, not manipulation.
 
Nathan Natas
Nathan Natas 8 years ago

Welcome Former Morman!
We have similar wounds inflicted by different knives.
 
nvrgnbk
nvrgnbk 8 years ago

We all (I think) are seeking healing from cults, not manipulation.

We have similar wounds inflicted by different knives.


Ignore the fundamentalists, FM.
They like the dark.
If you're a "poser", a hell unlike any taught by Southern Baptists awaits you!


 
tula
tula 8 years ago

Hi Former Mormon!
I read this awhile back and was wondering if you can tell me if it's true????
Maybe you could start another thread and discuss it for us if there is any truth to it. I find it pretty interesting and would like to know details.
Were you "high up" enough to know any of these secrets? Or do you just know this exists?
" A lot of the Mormon beliefs are not known by the lesser members of the Church. Only those in the highest positions are supposed to know all of the secrets of Joseph Smith and his founding of this religious sect. Smith made a lot of prophecies about the end of the world as we know it. He said that there would be a conflagration in the US and that the people worth saving would run to the mountains in Utah,Nev., Montanna, Wyoming and become one with the Mormon people. That would be what would save them from destruction. He prophesied that the next battle would be on our own shores, brother against brother as in the Civil War, State against State and City against City.
Smith also said that the Mormons would unite the world under one ruler. "
Is all of this a general belief?
I saw on news that a lot of Katrina victims who had been told they were being flown to Texas were instead diverted and flown to Utah. Do the Mormons see this as prophecy coming true that "people are flocking to Utah"? Other than the food banks they have always had, what are they doing as far as promoting propaganda about the end?

Thanks. Really curious and interested.
Tula.
 
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 8 years ago

Former Mormon - I'm LDS and currently active I'll happily expose you. Either you aren't very intelligent and don't know your doctrine/history or you're a fake;I do not accept that you can recount bull**** doctrine as major reasons for leaving and not be smirking into your computer screen.
Either way let me make some salient points:
Giving lengthy doctrinal reasons why you left the LDS to ex-JWs is bonkers - since they are largely unaware of LDS history or doctrine you wittering on about kinderhook plates etc is fairly irrelevant. As far as this board - as a whole - is concerned they already reject LDS doctrine they don't need a botched recounting of out of context or plain incorrect doctrine regarding a religion that they don't care about anyway. If you are looking for sympathy and justification for leaving the LDS you don't need a list of YOUR bizzare beliefs to do that - just leave it at the BOM or prophecy and most will be on your side already.
Now that I've whinged at FM I am somewhat surprised and downcast that having posted here for ages along with SusanHere some of you are asking 'I've always wondered anout the LDS' questions of someone I've already pointed out is feeding you garbled info. I am more than willing to accept that LDS thought is interesting to many here as a comparison to your own experiences but please don't get dragged into the sensationalist 'wow, they believe that' cr*p - its like me coming in and hanging my whole opinion of the JWs on Miracle Wheat and Pyramid shaped gravestones.
Petulance over.
 
Paralipomenon
Paralipomenon 8 years ago

Hollow earth theory? I have heard the term. I haven't seen anything in the history of the church, jornal of discourses, mellenial star etc.
In the process of investigating different faiths, I found an illustration from a LDS publication. It was a cutaway view of the earth. There were numerous entry points to get to the inner earth. There was an entrance at both poles and one in Utah.
It was speculated that Eden still existed on the underside of the earth and that is where the David and the faithful prophets of old lived. It mentioned that this belief of a hollow earth was later dropped. I'll see if I can find it again, though it's been years since I first looked at it.
 
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 8 years ago

Is this it?
http://shinola.org/pages/posts/hollow-earth-theory-gem...85.php
 
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 8 years ago

Sadly the LDS I know don't believe in hollow earth stuff which is a shame because it sounds fun.
 
Superfine Apostate
Superfine Apostate 8 years ago

gotta love google ads: Mormon Girls Mormon Tabernacle Mormon Underwear Famous Mormons Mormon Temple Film
 
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 8 years ago

OK - here's one thing LDS are very guilty of - speculation.
I'm willing to list speculative weirdness that have done the LDS gossip rounds in the past:
1/ We will be able to fly after we are resurrected.
2/ The Lost Tribes live in the North Pole
3/ The Lost Tribes are floating around with the City Of Enoch
4/ The Holy Ghost Is Female
 
FormerMormon
FormerMormon 8 years ago

QCMBR -- I'm still waiting for you to refute any LDS doctrine I have espoused. Cat got your tongue, Brother?
Final note on Hollow earth stuff: I am seeing lots of history, weird and damning statements/actions made by church leaders. They have done their best to rewrite, obfuscate and lie about the past. Hollow earth may be somewhere in LDS doctrine/history. I just haven't seen it yet.
 
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 8 years ago

'I just haven't seen it yet'
Don't let that stop you.
 
FormerMormon
FormerMormon 8 years ago

Besides,the troubling church history, hell fire damnation, sons of perdition and brain damaging techniques of cults being used by "the church", you are welcome to examine what I said to Tula in this post: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/147677/1.ashx
 
neverendingjourney
neverendingjourney 8 years ago

Who knew there'd be pissing match between current and former Mormons on an ex Jehovah's Witness forum. Fascinating!
 
ninja
ninja 8 years ago

our god is indeed harder to please than yours ...and our ex members are wackier than yours also........for every osmond you name....we can name michael jackson.........wooooo hooooooooo....ninja moonwalks off the thread and throws his hat into the forum
 
neverendingjourney
neverendingjourney 8 years ago

our god is indeed harder to please than yours
From what I've learned, the LDS beliefs are more unorthodox (and thus perceived as wackier by the general Christian public) than JWs, but JWs rules and regulations are much more harmful and overbearing. I've always respected the fact that the LDS encourage higher education and that they don't kick people to the curb as easily as JWs do. That said, both are high-control religions, in my opinion. I would seriously caution anyone thinking about joining either of these two groups.
 
Robdar
Robdar 8 years ago

My best friend is a former mormon elder. I was surprised at how much the two religions have in common.
Welcome to JWD.
 

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Topic Summary
greetings from the other side of the street,.
i just loved having you guys proselytizing on the other side of the street when we were tracting.
i am a recovering mormon with a believing spouse / family.



Related Topics
TTWSYF
What's up with the HEBREWS translation?
by TTWSYF 3 months ago
LAWHFol
Does God Exist? / Who is God? These are Questions which Lead nowhere. What is God Like, is the Correct Question.
by LAWHFol 5 months ago
Island Man
The folly of Watchtower's theodicy. Or, why would an all-powerful and all-wise God need to justify his sovereignty through suffering?
by Island Man 6 months ago
Wonderment
John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2
by Wonderment 3 months ago
blondie
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-22-2015 WT Study (God Loves us?)
by blondie 4 months ago



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Greetings from a recovering mormon
by FormerMormon 8 years ago 114 Replies latest 8 years ago   jw friends
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Double Edge
Double Edge 8 years ago

I have no dog in this fight, HOWEVER, I've been to many LDS meetings and I've never heard them discuss Hellfire and damnation. In fact, I've asked my lds friends and they said they don't believe in hell as a literal place, rather a state of being seperated from God. my 2 cents.... let the games continue.......
 
ninja
ninja 8 years ago

I hear the peoples temple are making a comeback
 
Double Edge
Double Edge 8 years ago

I hear the peoples temple are making a comeback
quick.... hide the Kool-aid.
 
FormerMormon
FormerMormon 8 years ago

Ninja,
I enjoy the light banter on whose was worse. I think for recovering cult members, we realize that the mind and the imagination can be a terrible jailer. Our leaders abused the power of belief and doctrine and helped us create hells of our own making.
I can understand why recovering ex cult members would gather at this forum, but why would active LDS be here? Are they looking to redirect from one cult to another? I don't understand the motivation.
Regarding being at meetings and not hearing HFdamnation AT THAT TIME. The mormons have a saying about milk before meat. They like non members to see the lighter side before the heavier stuff is laid on. Further, it is taught that the Lord WILL NOT allow "the prophets" to lead us astray. Thus, as a believing MORmON, you need only come across one speech/sermon (or a hundred) that has HFD. At that point, you are required to believe it, for it is true, from a prophet, and he cannot lead you astray.

dfj908wdjnmjue45## (Does a Marie flop on the floor, after Michael leaves the stage)
 
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 8 years ago

You challenged me and so I'm doing a thing I hate - line by line bitchin'
 I was born in the lds church, am in 40's, returned missionary, married in the temple, still active and HATING IT.
OK so we know you are emotionally led at this point. Hate is rarely a logical route though it is often useful for making extreme actions.
 I was horribly scarred in primary(youth group) at the age of 5 with a hell fire damnation sermon.
Primary isn't a youth group - primary is for children aged 3 - 12
Youth is for children aged 12 - 18
The terminology 'Youth' is very specifically applied within LDS culture to teenagers, http://www.lds.org/youthresources/0,11378,1909-1,00.html
Hell fire - Wikipedia gives a very plain explanation of LDS hell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_Perdition - a place where people CHOOSE to go - the overwhelming vast majority of people be they good or evil are redeemed into a place of glory.
I lift from this Joseph Smith's comment on how to get there:
All sins shall be forgiven, except the sin against the Holy Ghost; for Jesus will save all except the sons of perdition. What must a man do to commit the unpardonable sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it.[4]
i.e. Peter, James and John could get there you or I (not having had the heavens opened or actually knowing God) could not in our current state. When I was 5 I was not contemplating the intricacies of hell but you were obviously advanced.
 For weeks I remember being consumed with fear... knowing I MUST FORCE MYSELF TO DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO AVOID THE HELL THEY MENTIONED.
See above - it is impossible to get there for most everyone.
 The brain damage got worse at 7 (grandma died)
'brain damage' nope - I have a friend who has just got brain damage he can hardly walk and can't talk - your whine doesn't even figure.
 when I was introduced to the horribly irresponsible and poorly defined subject of becoming a son of perdition.
Wasn't that at age 5??? We don't have a traditional hell - we have an outer darkness described above and often likened to fire and brimstone. You can't possibly be describing the lowest glory (Telestial) to which the wicked will go because that is a wonderful place.
 (No forgiveness if you deny the Holy Ghost--cast into outer darkness) I seriously heard voices "denying the Holy Ghost", and scarring the S**T out of me.
No - I'm no doctor but maybe you need to check this out.
 Had I become a SOP??? I created a desired "righteous self" and a much feared "wicked possibility self".
Definately see someone - dual personalities aren't normal.
 Suicide, and the like, were feared potentialities, not that I wanted it, but it was part of my feared possible wicked self. My mind could never "make the deal" and allow myself to think I was righteous, when logic dictated otherwise.
OK so far we have a very, very disturbed childhood - non of this is attributable to LDS theology (I can't talk about over zealous authority figures in your life)
 I have never committed any of the church "biggies", except when I fail to do hometeaching
Hometeaching is a calling (church job) not always given out to all active male members over a certain age to visit church members once a month to deliver a short message and make sure they are OK- failing to do home teaching is not a 'biggie'(adultery or murder are biggies) - our local unit normally visits 10% of our assignments. Big thrills.
 and thereby assuming their blood and sins for three generations.
Not visiting one of the old widows in the ward and checking she's fine once a month is fairly lame but not considered worthy of this weird blood guilt thing you've got going on. You are cooking here - where you perhaps in some exotic breakaway LDS sect?
 Mission was HELL. I was a workaholic, but could never could become "THE MACHINE" I was told I should be.
OK - now I hear you - a mission is really hard. It takes dedication, guts and a certain ability to keep going when you are feeling at your lowest. It also has incredible highs and character strengthening opportunities. You seem to be a glass half empty type of guy.
 I had been too scared to leave the church, even though it was a consistent reminder of what a worm I am.
I am getting that drift brother.
 Desperate to find answers, I turned to FARMS (an apologetics group affiliated with BYU). While researching different subjects on hell fire damnation, I come across apologetics for the Book of Abraham, Kinderhook, Zina and think WTF??? I've never heard this before.
And you served a mission where exactly?????? I had this stuff served up regularly by the friendly born agains. You found this out at 40 odd?
 For awhile, I tried to justify Zina's, Brigham and Joseph's polyandry with "we are children. God is the adult and can do adult things, like polyandry... or even the conception of Jesus". In the back pages of LDS doctrine, Brigham Young taught that Jesus was concieved by the physical UNION of a presumably married father god and the single girlfriend of a mortal man(Mary). --The very definitions of adultery and fornication.
"presumably married father god" - remind me - you did go to the temple right?
 I am glad I wasn't Joseph, Mary's other sex partner.
Huh?
 Joseph Smith shared other men's wives. What is it with the name Joseph and wife sharing anyway??? I have no feelings of marital inadequacies, but if I knew my new brides (Mary) last lover was GOD, I think I might just be a little intimidated. Ladies, you know once you have HADA GOD, you can never... (and you JW's thought you had some whacky doctrines)
God wasn't Mary's lover. Speculating on Joseph's state of mind is about the most Mormon thing I've seen so far.
 I then start reading writing from the founders, Jefferson, Franklin and Thomas Paine (blessed be his name). I start to think, maybe the church is not AS TRUE as it has been presented to me.Then an amazing thing happened, I STARTED FEELING LEVELS OF SANITY I HAVE NEVER FELT BEFORE IN MY LIFE.
Was this the wicked FM or the good FM speaking here? I'm joshing you but seriously you sound as though you need a good secular counselling session.
 I admitted the possibility that it might not be true. Anymore when I go to church(with the wife), I look around and think how pathetic it is.
This fits in with your hate, lack of backbone(ooo I am getting catty:), inability to identify metaphor from reality and enhanced emotional reasoning. Pathetic isn't a good description of good people worshipping together IMO. I get it - you no longer believe and your still re-programming your brain by deliberately pointing out the perceived bad and how much better you feel. I did something similar when I broke up with my ex. Its part of our coping mechanism but get some perspective mate - the LDS church spends most of its effort teaching a very single minded message - love your family. If you missed that and can only see 'pathetic' I'm sorry - you missed the good bits and keep chewing the pips.
 The wife is TBM and whenever I bring up church history she SCREAMS "I don't know, I wasn't there, I don't care... the church is true". Strangely, when she blows up about this, she usually comes back within the hour very lovey dovey. I am looking at how to phase out and keep the family intact.
I DONT WANT MY POSTERITY TO HAVE THE S**T SCARED OUT OF THEM AS I WAS.
Frig' you scare me with this cr*p. When I teach my kids I comfort them, show them how loved they are and how they can overcome life's challenges positively. I hope for your kid's sakes you don't teach them this warped stuff.
 I do miss the assurance of an afterlife, validity of eternal families, celestial kingdom, etc. I want them to be true, but can't see how they can be, given the mountain of evidence, and the character of the "revelators" who restored these "truths".
Hang on - I only just got used to you hating the pathetic LDS cult. Make your mind up - wanting this to be true is just going to tear you up.
 I recently read an article on how organized religion CAUSES insanity.
Stop there don't do it...
 I bear witness that I know that the article is true and that organized religion causes mental illness and I say these things in the name of Thomas Paine, Amen.
Ah pants - you did it! you offloaded your personal weakness onto an external entity to justify yourself. Organised religion itself doesn't cause mental illness IMO any more than any other institution. Logically think this through - you may actually already have been suffering mental illness (in which case you would look for its cause in whatever circumstances you might find yourself), someone else may have traumatised you (only you know) but without selectively pointing out these so called illness inducing doctrines I challenge you to show how the vast corpus of LDS teaching - with its emphasis on self improvement, full living, family closeness, education , career, friends and sociality is conducive to mental illness. You can't quote any of the stuff you found at 40 since you've already shown how that didn't cause anything other than the excuse to give up.
 
Junction-Guy
Junction-Guy 8 years ago

QCMBR, plain and simple, what is the official teaching of the Mormon Church on the existence of hell? Do they believe like the JW's that it is just a state of non-existence? or do they believe it will be a place of actual conscious punishment?
 
SusanHere
SusanHere 8 years ago

Thank you, Qcmbr, for your detailed, line by line rebuttal of FM's ravings. Let's hope it wasn't totally wasted effort but that at least some will benefit from your excellent efforts. Your advice to FM to seek counseling is more than justified by his own words and peculiar version of a most improbable life story.
I read a lot of strange, silly, ignorant, or just plain mean-spirited comments about Mormons on this board, but choose to respond to only a few. Mostly I just let people believe whatever they choose and give them the benefit of the doubt. Most people just don't know what Mormons are really like, so they are simply repeating something they heard someone else say, or relating some incident as fact but which was actually a misunderstanding. I choose to believe that most people are basically kind and good hearted when given a chance.
FM's postings, though, went far beyond the norm. Claiming the credibility of former membership, therefore, insider knowledge, he gave next to nothing of Mormon doctrine or lifestyle that could possibly be factual. Instead he entertained everyone with lurid fantasy, half truths, and outright misinformation.. Dare I say ... lies?
This is not your typical "a neighbor who used to be a Mormon told me...." story. This guy is claiming credibility. And he doesn't have it. Nothing in his posting has a ring of truth. Statement after statement is easily shot down.
Qcmbr could have doubled his comments and still not covered it all. He hit the highlights, though, and very well. FM's a poser. Or a deeply troubled person. Or both. Whatever his problems, Mormon doctrine and lifestyle were not the cause.

SusanHere
 
Paralipomenon
Paralipomenon 8 years ago

And naturally, any current JW would say that JW apostates are posers and unknowledgeable because what they say isn't in line with the official doctrine.
What FM is saying is contrary to what is currently taught, but then again, what we say about witnesses is justified by apologists as well.
How any ex-witness could join the mormon faith or vice versa is completely beyond me.
 
FormerMormon
FormerMormon 8 years ago

Paralipomenon , actually what I am saying IS actively taught. Else, why the explosion in exmo sites/memberships? About a year ago, in testimony meeting, a boy stood up and said he knew we had to be good or go to hell. Everyone chuckled. I nearly cried. Here I was, 30 something years ago. I'm ashamed to say I didn't stand up scream at everyone for scaring the shit out of this young boy. It isn't funny. Words and ideas mean things. Some people are actually listening to and believing what is said.
 
undercover
undercover 8 years ago

How any ex-witness could join the mormon faith or vice versa is completely beyond me.
I'm curious as to how active, believing Mormons can spend time on an ex-JW board and not see the similarities between the JW religion that is constantly exposed as f'd up and the religion that they are devoted to and support wholeheartedly.
 
FormerMormon
FormerMormon 8 years ago

What does hate have to do with logic? I personally know that when people develop positive emotional attachments to churches, political parties and the like that they become more than willing to justify, deny, or have complete cognitive dissonance of horrible things done within the organization they subscribe to. Democrats, Republicans,JWs, Morons.
Primary (age 5) isn't youth??? Aren't you grasping at straws?? Can't one be scared by hell fire at 5 and by son's of perdition at 7???

The Mormon doctrine of hell is contradictory. You assume it has to make sense, or be uniform and consistent.
1. The Book of Mormon describes hell as a place of torment and burning to which all non-Christians will be condemned. Apparently you didn't read my reference in Mosiah ch 3 about hell, fire, damnation AND brimstone???
2 D&C76  mentions 3 degrees of glory and outer darkness. The most righteous Temple Mormon get to live with God in the Celestial Kingdom. Lesser folks will get either the Terrestial or Telestial kingdom, depending on how naughty they were. Only the Sons of Perdition (apostates from Mormonism) will be condemned to "outer darkness" to spend eternity in torment with Satan. This can also be interpreted as anyone who says or thinks the words "I deny the truth" or "I deny God's power" or "I deny the Holy Ghost."

The D&C 76 quote on perdition is as follows:
31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power—
32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;
33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;
34 Concerning whom I have said there is ano forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—
35
Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame.
36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels—
37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power;
38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath.
39 For all the rest shall be brought forth by the resurrection of the dead, through the triumph and the glory of the Lamb, who was slain, who was in the bosom of the Father cbefore the worlds were made.
The Mormons say that the Book of Mormon is a record of the fullness of the gospel, as given to the Lamanites and Nephites. The Mormons are unique in their belief on Temple Work, Baptisms for the dead, temple marriages/sealings, the 3 degrees of glory, preexistence and the Word of wisdom. If the Nephites had it all, why isn't any of that mentioned in the B of Mormon? --BECAUSE THESE IDEAS DIDN"T EVOLVE IN JOSEPHS HEAD UNTIL LATER.
You quoted an article in wikipedia. When I was 5, Wikipedia didn't exist. My sunday school teacher couldn't have quoted from it. Further, good brother, you know that church members are admonished to teach ONLY from the standard works of the Bible, BOM,D&C and POGP. Church leadership knows that too much embarrassing stuff will come out if people start studying History of the Church, Journal of Discourses etc. I have quoted the scripture that scared the shit out of me as a YOUTH. The son of perdition quote you gave is from the King Follett discourse-- NOT WITHIN THE STANDARD WORKS.
Further, to be honest about your use of wikipedia, you forgot the part in wiki that said:
It "is frequently—though not universally —added that a son of perdition must have a "perfect knowledge" of Jesus and that mere faith or belief in him is not enough."

Looking back, it really was my fault. As a 7 year old YOUTH, I should have had my scriptural lawyer with me. He could have broken all the "stay with the standard works" rules from on high and clarified things with the Follett quote. Once again, I assert that Thomas Paine was correct when he said that any religion that has things in it that would SHOCK the mind of a child CANNOT be a true system.
Yes, these things did cause me serious damage. If you want to nit pick on calling it brain damage or psychological damage, then you are straining at a nat.
Not doing hometeaching IS a big deal. I HAVE heard mission presidents, Bishops and Stake Presidents tell us that if we fail to do our duty, the blood and sins of those in our charge will be put on our head.
You say I suffer from the inability to distinguish "
metaphor from reality and enhanced emotional reasoning". I say it is the F**king leaders problem when they fail to identify when they are speaking doctrinally or metaphorically.
You say I have lack of backbone. Maybe the recovering JW's here have a lack of backbone. Does it not take COURAGE to stand up against the fear and threats of the church and say "This is bullshit!!"? In the mission field, do we not ask people to open up their minds to the POSSIBILITY that the BOM is true?? Does this not involve opening up the range of possibilities for them? Does it not require a WILLINGNESS to follow through, no matter how painful? I now ask you to broaden your field as Gordon B Hinkley has said. Either the church is true as JS said it was, or it is a false, damnable heresy. Repeat in your mind: The church is either true or it is a false damnable heresy. Rinse your mind, repeat. Repeat until you are willing to follow through discovery, no matter what the results.
I don't want to scare my kids with mormon crap either. Corrections have begun.
Yes, I did the mission thing in the Bible belt. I was mostly confronted with pathetic appeals to biblical scripture, or vain rails against Joseph having more than one wife. I must admit guilty pleasure in the few encounters I had with the Witnesses. I DID NOT HEAR that joseph had begun translating a forgery known as the kinderhook plates. I DID NOT hear that most of the Chandler Papyrus from which the Book of Abraham was translated were rediscovered. I DID NOT know that the papyrus have been translated by modern Egyptologists and that the church agrees that the translation says NOTHING ABOUT ABRAHAM. I further did not hear about Joseph secretely proposing to other mens wives and marrying them while the husband was away.
You seem confused by how I could hate so much in the church, and yet want some of it's ideas to be true. This is because you do not understand a fundamental tool of cults: Whiplashing subjects between extreme hope and extreme fear. It's a motivational tool that is actually counterproductive. Yes, I am glad to defuse the mormon fear colossus. Can't I still long for the beautiful fairy tales it told? How long have you been reading these similar stories on a recovering JW board?? Another tool cults use is isolating the dissenter. In the mission field, I was made to feel like I was the only one who couldn't work the required 90 hours/week. I was the only one feeling like I couldn't "be the machine". Recently, my stake president and "his scholarly friend" at BYU tried telling me I was the only one they had heard of that had issues with church history. I am glad to say, BULLSHIT, there are thousands and thousands of us.
I agree with the mission statement at postmormon.org. They are not "Anti" mormon. They are "POST" mormon. We seek to take the good from the LDS church and leave behind the lies, manipulation and the BRAIN damage(I'm speaking metaphorically here). The good includes thoughts and teachings on humility, forgiveness, patience, fellowship and gratitude. I am thankful the church helped me live a life free of addictive substance, and to be free of the problems of sexual promiscuity.
You have much to learn about the LDS church and cult recovery, grasshopper.
You can come out of your scared corner now SusanHere. Your cognitive dissonance is very strong.
 
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 8 years ago

I woke up this morning wondering whether I should have said what I did in case FM is someone who is in need of help from counselling - I'm glad I waited.
Everyone else - I can only say it so many times - you can listen to this guy rail all you like but he is off balance and is spouting diatribe rather than reasoned discussion. I'm finished with him. If you choose to believe that this is the LDS faith - so be it.
Juntion Guy - I'll PM you in a bit with the answer to your question.
 
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 8 years ago

Undercover - why do you think that? I do see many similarities (in fact wasn't there a thread about this ages and ages ago?) If you mean why don't I fawn over someone who has left the LDS faith and posts like he's drunk a gallon of mountain dew and newly discovered the bold and red underline options in amongst yet another wife of Joseph Smith ..well sorry. I'm sure FM is great to talk to face to face and I hope he can find a way to reconcile his dilemma - some of us just do it a lot quieter and with less showboating.
It may surprise you here that this site is interesting for reasons other than the stark JW surgery. My reasons are my own, they change from day to day, sometimes I just want to chat, sometimes I just want to lurk, sometimes I need to talk or hear people talk who have had religious experiences that are similar to mine but critically aren't mine. I've said before that I'd rapidly wig out on an ex-LDS site simply because I'd end up a full time apologist which I'm not in real life. Today I'm here to finish my words on this thread.
:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
 
FormerMormon
FormerMormon 8 years ago

I'm curious as to how active, believing Mormons can spend time on an ex-JW board and not see the similarities between the JW religion that is constantly exposed as f'd up and the religion that they are devoted to and support wholeheartedly.
Junction Guy,
I agree wholeheartedly. Q and Susan couldn't survive at an exmo site (unless they weren't afraid of the truth). Apparently "Prove all things, hold fast that which is good" doesn't apply to things that challenge the faith.
I want to see how ExJW's deal with loved ones and the cognitive dissonance so aptly demonstrated by Susan and Q. I want to show patterns of JW cult activity so my loved ones can recognize the same in the LDS faith.
Best.
 
startingover
startingover 8 years ago

I find this thread very interesting, and at the end here, very irritating.
Qcmbr, you said:
I woke up this morning wondering whether I should have said what I did in case FM is someone who is in need of help from counselling - I'm glad I waited.
Everyone else - I can only say it so many times - you can listen to this guy rail all you like but he is off balance and is spouting diatribe rather than reasoned discussion. I'm finished with him. If you choose to believe that this is the LDS faith - so be it.
You have been on this board for some time and I have enjoyed your comments from a Mormon standpoint. I find it interesting now that you cannot see that you are acting out with FM just like the loyal JW's most all of us ex-JW's on this board have to deal with. I find your comments above offensive and uncalled for.
 
FormerMormon
FormerMormon 8 years ago

Qcmbr,
I hope he can find a way to reconcile his dilemma -some of us just do it a lot quieter and with less showboating.
IT being cognitive dissonance??? What did you need to reconcile in the church? That's quite the admission young skywalker.
...Prove all things brother.
 
FormerMormon
FormerMormon 8 years ago

Q...
Let me see if I understand you correctly. I'm off balanced and unreasoned... and I threw you off? WOW, I can't wait to see what I can do when I'm balanced and reasonable. Imagine the superpowers.
 
DanTheMan
DanTheMan 8 years ago

Does it not take COURAGE to stand up against the fear and threats of the church and say "This is bullshit!!"
Amen brother, amen...ex-jw's can relate to this 1,000,000%
 
SusanHere
SusanHere 8 years ago

I can come out of my "scared corner now"????? ROFL

Thank you for so clearly confirming my earlier assessment of your character. I love it when I'm right.

SusanHere
 
SusanHere
SusanHere 8 years ago

People, if someone with a loose screw were to say to me, "I know your name is Michael, you're really a man, and you just got out of jail for x, y, and z." What would you expect me to say?
Fact is, Mr. Someone would be dead wrong. Of course I'm going to tell him so.
Even though I'm obviously a woman who enjoys being one, and I don't have a man's name, nor have I a criminal record thus far in my life, there would undoubtedly be those who would choose to listen to Mr. Someone and try to get me to 'fess up to the supposed "facts" of his ravings.
Well, sorry, folks. Truth is truth and Mr. Someone still has a loose screw. And I don't lie.
Like I said before... believe FM's story or not. It's your choice.
My part is done.

SusanHere,
enjoying life far too much to spend any more time on this thread.
 

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Topic Summary
greetings from the other side of the street,.
i just loved having you guys proselytizing on the other side of the street when we were tracting.
i am a recovering mormon with a believing spouse / family.



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Greetings from a recovering mormon
by FormerMormon 8 years ago 114 Replies latest 8 years ago   jw friends
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neverendingjourney
neverendingjourney 8 years ago

Some folks on this forum who have never been JWs come on here because they find our XJW experiences interesting. However, I get the feeling that some of this fascination is similar to the interest people on the interstate show when they slow down to catch a glimpse of the car wreck on the side of the road. It's voyeuristic and it creeps me out, quite frankly. Some of these people have been taken to task regarding the flaws in their own religious beliefs, and they have often gotten defensive about it. If you're going to come on this forum and engage in some JW bashing, you better be willing to face the music when your own religious beliefs come under scrutiny. Anything short of that is hypocritical.
 
Highlander
Highlander 8 years ago

I'm highly educated in the Mormon history. Here are my credentials!

 
blondie
blondie 8 years ago

http://www.thefoyer.org/index.php
This is an ex-mormon site that could be helpful.
I go there from time to time to confirm LDS teachings from another perspective.

Blondie
 
kerj2leev
kerj2leev 8 years ago

Priceless!
I'm highly educated in the Mormon history. Here are my credentials!
 
oldflame
oldflame 8 years ago

I am a excommunicated Mormon. If I can help you in anyway just let me know...And welcome to this discussion board.
 
oompa
oompa 8 years ago

Seasons Greetings FormMorm!! I too got a kick out of seeing you guys. At least you got to ride a bike wich I love. We had to walk between our hoping in and out of cars. Funny but apparently you guys know and teach we are a cult. I stopped two peddlers last summer and we talked for over an hour. The gave me The Book, and literature, and said they know all about our doctored up Bible, and whacky ways...........they knew truths about us even my elders did not know..............glad we are both free, but my wife is not either and neither is my son..............good luck..........oompa
 
Quandry
Quandry 8 years ago

Well, I do know this. When I decided to do research into the history of Witnesses on line, I was flabergasted to find out that Russell taught that God resides in the Pliades system. If I am not mistaken, LDS believe the three gods, Jehovah, Jesus, and Elohim (who is the chief god) reside on a planet, also. Please correct me if I am wrong.
My point being that looking into the history of the JWs led to shocking discoveries. 1914 came from measurements of a pyramid, etc.
These teachings, of course, are not shared in the meetings at the Kingdom Halls, but are never mentioned, and if a person started sharing what they knew, they would be "dealt with" in the back room.
The teachings were made up, we now know, by men who claimed to have special knowledge from God.
I saw a PBS special about LDS and have looked up info on web sites. Joseph Smith had some interesting views, and also claimed revelations from God.He evidently swindled lots of people out of money, too, but I digress.....
So, what I am getting at is that with variations, it would seem to us (those who were in the JWs for many years) that you are arguing about insignificant differences in whacky beliefs that we feel we escaped from with the WTBTS.
I know that if I began to explain the "generation" beliefs, someone could easily say that I didn't have my facts straight. They would be partly right, because the "explanations" are confusing to me.
So, those who take issue with formermormon, please know that if I am any representation of former witnesses, the differences you are speaking of don't make much of a difference. We view both religions as from men now. Maybe in your particular church, hell fire wasn't used as a threat, but clearly it is a belief from the LDS publications.
Do you understand what I am saying? It is like an argument on this forum from ex-Witnesses with each other arguing over some change in when and how "new light" came to be. What's the point? It's all from men........
 
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 8 years ago

Quandry - there are far easier ways to critique the LDS faith than lying surely even you can see that lies don't help anyone.
For example you put in a throwaway comment about Joseph Smith swindling money as though you actually knew what the hell you were talking about. It's this shallow mud flinging that I fight against.
 
barry
barry 8 years ago

I liked the southpark mormons when I came to this page they have a real sense of humour, and I like it.
 
Quandry
Quandry 8 years ago

If I was a dub I'd use a new light arguement to do whatever I wanted - i.e. 'Bro Dave didn't you know christmas was apostate?!! - Yea Bro Overseer Man but I just had new light that actually Pastor Russel was right, yo ho ho'

I didn't pull the information out of thin air that Joseph Smith was accused of swindling a town out of its money. The PBS special on LDS did that. He did alot of other things, too. So, it seems, did Brigham Young. Down to the shooting people incident. As LDS leaders admit, a "sad part" of their history, but of course the men did it on their own and the leader of the religion "didn't know anything about it." But I digress again......
Your quote above says it all. You come to this site and agree that JWs rely on "new light" when they want to change things, but of course when the LDS wants to, it's a "revelation." I don't get the difference, except that you want to bash JWs but don't want the tables turned on LDS, correct?
 
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 8 years ago

Nope I'm suggesting that there are very very valid areas to criticise the LDS faith - I'm not fond of people just grabbing some unfounded accusation and suggesting that its true when NEITHER of us can prove our points y source material or first hand experience.
If you want to look at LDS weakness try the following:
Destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor - a bad move by Jospeh Smith
The Mountain Meadows Massacre - a terrible mistake by local members
The doctrine of skin colour - a national obsession in the US at the time but one in hindsight I wish we'd led on rather than accepting and incorporating into the beliefs.
Try these first and if you notice I don't actually spend ages knocking JW beliefs - I quite often post in defence of the JW people in fact.
 
Quandry
Quandry 8 years ago

I'm not fond of people just grabbing some unfounded accusation and suggesting that its true when NEITHER of us can prove our points y source material or first hand experience.
The Mountain Meadow massacre is not "unfounded accusation" as I believe there was a trial and one participant, made scapgoat by the others, was hanged.
No, I don't have first hand experience, as I wasn't there. I do suggest, however, that PBS, the source material I watched and quoted, is not using unfounded accusations.
What I am suggesting is that both the WTS and LDS have strange, unfounded doctrine. Why is it logical to you that the WTS stuff is man made but the LDS stuff is all divine truth?
 
jimbo
jimbo 8 years ago

I for one have enjoyed the postings of Form Morm!!! Some claim his story is a fabrication. To me it rings true. If it is a fabrication this man should write a novel!!! It could be a best seller.
FM, you said you got your college education at BYU. Well I got mine from Awake university. Ya!! Ya!! I know some will say that I am making it up but that was a general consensus, if you read all of the Awake mags. you would have the equal of a college education. True, nobody said what college!! My recent Compass test did indicate that I am above eighth grade level.
FM's story sounds similar to mine in many respects, from a JW viewpoint. The names have been changed to protect the innocent.
Oh, by the way, FM, welcome to the board!! Your postings are appreciated and are great food for thought. Keep posting and your continuing story may even convince doubters that you are legit.
Thanks for posting!! You have made my day!!!
Jimbo
 
Mulan
Mulan 8 years ago

Figure this one out. One of my former JW friends, age about 58 became a Mormon. When she called me to tell me, I laughed outloud, thinking she was kidding me. But she was dead on serious. How is that possible?
My husband's birth mother and entire family are Mormons (she died shortly after he was born in 1943). I've met several of them who found us for their genealogy stuff, and they are lovely, warm people, who would do anything for us. I feel for them because they are so misled, but it seems to be working for them, and they are a happy family. I am not inclined to mess with that.
 
moshe
moshe 8 years ago

Welcome FM- reminds me of a Mormon at my doorstep who explained how the two missionaries came to his home a few days after he prayed to god to show him the true religion- so he just knew they were an answer to his prayer- and that is how he became a Mormon. I nodded and then asked him, " so , if JW's had worked your street first that week, you would be a JW today?"- he had a perplexed look on his face and he didn't have a good answer. I imagine he is still a Mormon today.
 

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Topic Summary
greetings from the other side of the street,.
i just loved having you guys proselytizing on the other side of the street when we were tracting.
i am a recovering mormon with a believing spouse / family.



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What do JWs think of Mormons?
by lavendar 9 years ago 23 Replies latest 9 years ago   jw friends
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lavendar
lavendar 9 years ago

Do they think the LDS church is a cult......or do they just lump them in with Christendom?
Thanks,
Lavendar
 
R.F.
R.F. 9 years ago

They're lumped right on in with Christendom.
 
poppers
poppers 9 years ago

Whenever Mormans visit me I bring up witless beliefs and watch their eyes get big. Then I point out the house two doors down from mine, where a dub family lives, and suggest they make a visit there while they are in the neighborhood - don't know if anyone has done that though.
 
lfcviking
lfcviking 9 years ago

Well when i was a dub i was taught that every 'christian' faith outside of the JW org was a part of 'Christendom' which is a part of Babylon the great. But the JW's have to be careful when accusing another religion of being a cult because they are well aware that their own religion is also under the same accusation by many others.
 
lavendar
lavendar 9 years ago

So, they never call any other "group" a cult?
 
lavendar
lavendar 9 years ago

Don't they believe there are cults?
 
sspo
sspo 9 years ago

Since they feel as strong about their beleif, the typical JW feels they have been brainwashed.
 
lfcviking
lfcviking 9 years ago

Yes they do believe their are religious cults but its not a term they often use. They prefer to talk about false religion in general putting the whole thing into one pigeon hole.
 
sweetstuff
sweetstuff 9 years ago

Part of the deluded mass of WRONG christian religions. I remember being a witness and being really jealous of mormons. A. Only the boys went door to door. B. They got their college education paid for. C. They had all kinds of youth programs. Sigh, you know yer in a cult when....
 
lfcviking
lfcviking 9 years ago

I think a better term used to describe the mormons or JW's even is a 'Sect' because this word is used to describe a breakaway from a mainstream religion which is what the JW faith is. A cult on the other hand is more used to describe a group of people that isolates itself from normal society and often has one person as the leader.
 
steve2
steve2 9 years ago

You mean you actually think JWs take the time to differentiate among other Christian groups?
Lavender, you give them way too much credit! Truth is, they lump all other Christian religions in the stinky vat labelled "Christendom".
 
Hermano
Hermano 9 years ago

I think a better term used to describe the mormons or JW's even is a 'Sect' because this word is used to describe a breakaway from a mainstream religion which is what the JW faith is. A cult on the other hand is more used to describe a group of people that isolates itself from normal society and often has one person as the leader.
I like to use the term high control group. Cult and sect, are loaded words in my opinion, which stop the thought process. I don't know how a JW could deny that their group is a high control group.
 
brinjen
brinjen 9 years ago

They don't differentiate between religions in my experience, but bundle them all up as 'christendom'. They don't talk about cults, might draw too much attention to themselves and get the rank and file thinking...
I think a better term used to describe the mormons or JW's even is a 'Sect' because this word is used to describe a breakaway from a mainstream religion which is what the JW faith is.
That was in the days of Charles Taze Russell, then Rutherford took it further and developed them into a cult, that's my opinion anyway...
 
lavendar
lavendar 9 years ago

Thanks for all the replys!
Hermano - that's a very good point. Using "high control group" instead of the "cult". Maybe when I get up the courage to ask our son if he's joined that "cult" yet.....I'll instead say, "So, have you joined that high control group yet?"
 
Quandry
Quandry 9 years ago

Well, when I was going to the KHall, I felt sorry for Mormons. I mean, how could they not know that their belief system was started by a man. And the weirdness of it-they believe that God may be on some other planet. They follow man made rules. They kick people out of their religion if they don't adhere to their belief system. They are a rather closed society, and beleive that they are the true religion.
Then I realized, doesn't all this stuff sound eerily similar to the teachings of the witnesses? There are a few differences. Yes, Mormons must tithe ten percent to the church, but men must go in door to door work for only two years and witnesses must do it for life!
When you get down to it, which one is better?
 
lavendar
lavendar 9 years ago

Quandry - yeah, I guess if I had to choose between the two, I'd choose Mormons. Actually, I'd rather DIE than join one of these groups, but at least Mormons get to celebrate Holidays with their families.
 
worldtraveller
worldtraveller 9 years ago

Hello everyone. First post. First if anyone can give me pointers on how to use this forum as to applying the pix to the left would be appreciated. Anyway what I read recently was that originally the WTS was created by someone who then believed in the Occult-hence the name cult. That is the connection perhaps. I have 2 questions. I have asked my so called jw "friend" and so far no answers that make sense. 1) If no has met God in person, how would one know his name, and how would you assume He is in fact a he? Isn't that a secular name in the first place and isn't it really stupid that we can only assume that He might be far from the truth-after all, isn't God super human, not human-as that is a human term? 2) If there is absolutely no evolution, and all life came from Adam and Eve, then where did Africans come from as well as others in our world.(that question stumped my"friend").
Anyway I am enjoying the format as it is full of free dialogue and it is most refreshing. Best regards to all.
 
changeling
changeling 9 years ago

They are just a religion like any other. No better, no worse.
changeling
 
poppers
poppers 9 years ago

Welcome, worldtraveller.
 
Gordy
Gordy 9 years ago

I remember many years ago when I was a Min Servant opening the Service Meeting.
One of the items was about Mormons. There had been an article in a previous Watchtower about Mormons.
The item in the Kingdom Ministry was to say that we as JW's were not to make any comments about the Mormon religion.
I found it strange at the time, that such an item appeared.
Were they afraid of something from the LDS?
 

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What do JWs think of Mormons?
by lavendar 9 years ago 23 Replies latest 9 years ago   jw friends
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BrentR
BrentR 9 years ago

I have several friends that are LDS and I must say that they do not try to stuff any religion down anyones throat. When the guys come to my door I usually strike up a conversation about how I also used to have to beat on doors and how much I hated it. Then they tell me how much they hate it and will be glad when thier mission is over. LDS should make me a "do not call" because I tell them how great it is to be out of a cult like religion and be able to think on my own. We have had some great conversations but not about what they are supposed to be talking about. Almost all of them are just going through the motions until thier two years are up.
 
SusanHere
SusanHere 9 years ago

Why would they instruct JWs not to mention Mormons? That's a new one to me. Any reasoning on this, anybody?
I'd really like to know.

Thanks,
Susan
 
IP_SEC
IP_SEC 9 years ago

Anyway what I read recently was that originally the WTS was created by someone who then believed in the Occult-hence the name cult. That is the connection perhaps.
There is little connection betwixt the word cult and occult except for the last 4 letters
Latin: Cultus: Worship; from the past participle of colere, to cultivate.
Latin: Occultus: Hidden, secret, to conceal.
Cults can have occultic connections but cults are not necessarily occultic.
 
OnTheWayOut
OnTheWayOut 9 years ago

I think JW's have to lump Mormons in with all of Christendom. They feel all of it is wrong, except
their own teachings. The literature likes to pick on Catholicism mostly- the mainest of mainstream
religion in Christendom. Mormons are hardly ever mentioned.
I feel the reason for that is that the WTS doesn't want to point at a cult and say "CULT!" Making
the members think about what makes a cult might make them examine their own religion. Even the
"What is a cult?" magazine focused on all the stereotypes that WTS said didn't apply to themselves
without pointing to Mormons.
I think the GB are jealous of the Mormon cult because they managed to mainstream their cult.
I also think the Mormons are a super-cult in comparison to WTS. They need to be taken more seriously.
Their mainstream effort and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir makes people believe they are okay.
 

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.
do they think the lds church is a cult......or do they just lump them in with christendom?.
lavendar .



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Looking For A New Church
by lehighjoe 9 years ago 17 Replies latest 9 years ago   jw friends
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lehighjoe
lehighjoe 9 years ago

Being raised as a JW is a double edged sword. On one hand, you get a phenominal boot-camp education on the Bible, what it means, how to use it in your life (even long after leaving the Society). On the other hand, it makes looking for a new home-church a bit of a challenge. We're having a very difficult time finding a non-Trinitarian church to associate with. It seems that all denominations that were non-Trinitarian have since co-opted into other denom's that are. We've even relaxed out stand on the "cross", and have investigated a few churches that seem to use it more as an identifier than a sacred icon. (We have found NONE that didn't display it in some way.) We've even considered those that pass the plate" and the memorial emblems once or twice each meeting. From all the churches we've visited in the last few years, they all seem to have the same playbook, which is nothing more than a revised playbook from Catholicism and theological derivations. Believe it or not, only the LDS represents a non-Trinitarian alternative to JW's in our area, and they're not an option. Any thoughts on this subject? Thanks in advance.
 
Honesty
Honesty 9 years ago

What's wrong with attending a church that worships Jesus?
 
Junction-Guy
Junction-Guy 9 years ago

There is a group of Pentecostals that deny the Trinity, but I cant remember what they are called. Most churches are Trinitrian, so you will have a hard time in your search.
 
greendawn
greendawn 9 years ago

I don't believe in the Trinity doctrine but I have no trouble associating with groups that do. Perhaps you are over-influenced by the JWs who regard the Trinity as a pagan demonic concept. That is not the case the doctrine may be wrong but it is an attempt however unsuccessful to reconcile believing in two Gods, the Son is also described in the NT as being a god.
 
Junction-Guy
Junction-Guy 9 years ago

Other than the Trinity, what else do you look for in a church? do you like alot of liturgy? Do you prefer it to be a big or small church? Is the music a factor? I myself prefer old hymns as opposed to the modern praise songs. There are many things that churches have to offer, I wouldnt limit myself to churches that were non-Trinitarian.
 
blondie
blondie 9 years ago

Research under nontrinitarian; be careful, some believe Jesus is God but not necessarity in a trinity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontrinitarianism
Nontrinitarian Christian groups
◦American Unitarian Conference
◦Arian Catholicism
◦Arianism
◦Bible Students
◦Christadelphians
◦Christian Conventions a non-denominational group which publishes no dogmatic positions, but which a majority of observers classify as non-Trinitarian
◦Church of Christ, Scientist
◦Church of God General Conference (Abrahamic Faith)
◦Church of the Blessed Hope (Church of God of the Abrahamic Faith; not part of General Conference, see below)
◦Creation Seventh Day Adventism
◦Doukhobors
◦Higher Ground Online
◦Jehovah's Witnesses
◦Living Church of God
◦Living Hope International Ministries
◦Molokan
◦Monarchianism
◦New Church
◦Oneness Pentecostals
◦Polish Brethren
◦Socinianism
◦The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church; see also Mormon)
◦The Way International
◦Unification Church
◦Unitarian Christians
◦Unitarian Universalist Christian Fellowship*
* Independent affiliates of the Unitarian Universalist Association
[edit] Other nontrinitarian groups
◦Iglesia ni Cristo
◦True Jesus Church
 
lehighjoe
lehighjoe 9 years ago

We rather like the "old-time" style, ourselves, and have actually found a charming Congregational church about an hour from our home. Unfortunately the theology is based on the trinity, and that makes it very difficult to fully immerse in the consideration for that day.
(I'll also take a minute to clarify: some churches belive in the same-entity concept of Jehovah, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit; others have a duotheism of Jehovah and Jesus being the same individual, and the Holy Spirit a separate entity. I use the term "trinity" to descibe both theologies, although I know it's *technically* incorrect for duothesim.)
There are a glut of rock and roll evengelical churches all over, but the show-business aspect turns us off.
We feel like we're in a bad music video.
In addition, the evangelical churches in our experience try to be a lifestyle one-stop for people - a meeting place, counseling, day care, radio station, field trips... etc. They're also big... the small ones we attended had well over 500 people. There's no way any intmacy can be derived with the responsible members of the church. I asked, and was told across the baord, we'd be "assigned" to a group or a "membership director".
Blondie, thanks for the list, but we burned through that list two years ago.
When we do research before we go into the field, we do heavy-duty research on anything we can obtain.
I'm not flaming anyone or any denomination, just passing along our personal experiences after a lot of "field" research and attendance. I also will not flame any JW for their attendance. Over time, the Society wasn't for me, and I stepped aside to let those it *was* for move along without me causing a negative effect on their day.
To each their own. As we continue to search.
Thanks to all for their replies, and we wish all of you the best.
 
skeptic1914
skeptic1914 9 years ago

It seems to me the key question is: Are the people you are going to associate with, whether socially or in worship, living the Sermon on the Mount? In other words, Is there Christian fruitage? "By THIS all will know you are my disciples..."
As far as doctrine is concerned, I have found it's important to be open to the idea that what I was taught as a JW may not best represent what the Scriptures teach anyway. For example, IMO the Scriptures show that Jesus is not Jehovah but is far more than a created angel. Since no human or group is ever going to get it 100% right isn't it more important to recognize the genuine love for God and neighbor in our fellow Christian?
Skeptic1914
 
Junction-Guy
Junction-Guy 9 years ago

What about the doctrine of Hell? Is that an issue? You mentioned the Trinity, but not this.
 
blondie
blondie 9 years ago

I guess it's a matter of finding out what you believe, why you believe it, and if there is someone out there who shares most of those beliefs that you want to associate with. Or most of them.
I've been reading a book by Charles Davis, a British theologian, who left the Catholic priesthood and the RC. He felt that organzing a group of Christians into too large a group skewed the faith.
Blondie
 
lehighjoe
lehighjoe 9 years ago

Nope. Not an issue.
 
Junction-Guy
Junction-Guy 9 years ago

Really?? now thats interesting, I figured you would have a harder time with a church that teaches hell even more so than the Trinity.
If this is not the case, then maybe a small Baptist Church. They hardly ever use the word "Trinity".
 
Junction-Guy
Junction-Guy 9 years ago

by the way I just sent you a message to your box.
 
lehighjoe
lehighjoe 9 years ago

Thanks for the thoughts.
 
Axeman
Axeman 9 years ago

a phenominal boot-camp education on the Bible
More like WT doctrine. And based on this doctrine your looking for a church defined by the WT My suggestion find a church that promotes Jesus as the way the truth and the light and not themselves like the WT does Bible knowledge is wasted if it does not lead to putting faith in Jesus
Cross stake or shot with a colt 45 what does it matter how The question should be why and what does this mean to me
 
Pubsinger
Pubsinger 9 years ago

(I'll also take a minute to clarify: some churches belive in the same-entity concept of Jehovah, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit; others have a duotheism of Jehovah and Jesus being the same individual, and the Holy Spirit a separate entity.

I have yet to come across any church that teaches any of the above.
http://www.carm.org/doctrine/whatisthetrinity.htm
http://www.carm.org/questions/Jesus_Father.htm
I use the term "trinity" to descibe both theologies, although I know it's *technically* incorrect for duothesim
That is the crux of the matter. You have a problem with the above quotes, but you are eliminating churches from your search that actually agree with you.
 
funkyderek
funkyderek 9 years ago

lehighjoe:
Here's a radical idea you may not have thought of. Instead of trying to find a church that matches your beliefs as closely as possible - don't.
That's right, just don't bother. There are better things to do on a Sunday than sit in a room believing all sorts of improbable things. Go to a museum or an art gallery, take up kayaking, read a book, help the homeless, whatever floats your boat.
If you feel you must be part of a church though, perhaps instead of trying to find one that fits your beliefs you should ask yourself why you believe as you do and why you can't find anyone else who shares those beliefs. Maybe even start from a questioning position and try to find out what actually is true before you start believing it.
 
Stealth453
Stealth453 9 years ago

Church of the Vertical Smile.
 

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