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The reward of being a nice guy!
by StephaneLaliberte 2 days ago 11 Replies latest a day ago   jw experiences
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StephaneLaliberte
StephaneLaliberte 2 days ago

Today, an old JW friend came to visit a member of my family who is still active. I saw them leave together to run errands. When they left, she didn't say hi and barely looked at me.
After taking care of my cores around the house, I noticed that the sister had forgot to turn off the head lights of her car. So, I called them on my relative's cell phone, but the sister thought they could probably be back in time before the battery would run flat. Well, that didn't happen. The battery died. So who was there to save her day and give her a boost? ME!
She was so nice with me, making small talk and smiling and laughing, just like in the good all days.
I tell you, there is no greater pleasure than being a nice person to them making them realize: How come he didn't become a complete dick? He hasn't been to the hall in so long; shouldn't he be bad by now?
 +29 / -0
FreeGirl2006
FreeGirl2006 2 days ago
Great story! So nice when we are able to show former friends that we are still human, still have good hearts.
 +9 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 2 days ago

You are a nice guy. I might have had a hard time being so gracious.
Doc

 +4 / -0
JWdaughter
JWdaughter 2 days ago
I'm glad you did the right thing rather than taking your 'right' to feel bad about her treatment of you.
 +5 / -0
Village Idiot
Village Idiot 2 days ago

Most of them will still ignore you after your good deed.
As for her, I would have told her that "this apostate did what you would have never done" - help her out.
 +8 / -0
LisaRose
LisaRose 2 days ago

It's like they are surprised you haven't sprouted horns and a tail, and when you are the same nice person you were before they can't get over it.
 +7 / -0
wannaexit
wannaexit 2 days ago
Good for you for rising above. I hope the sister remembers your good deed.
 +4 / -0
Beth Sarim
Beth Sarim 2 days ago
It's always best to do the right thing. Being a Captain Obvious here,lol.
 +3 / -0
steve2
steve2 2 days ago

What a great example of you choosing to be effective over the need to be right.
 +6 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 2 days ago

Well, you were only able to help because Jehovah made you, a sinning apostate serve his worshiper...
(sarcasm alert)
No, seriously, they simply don't know how to react when we are normal, nice friendly and helpful! They have been conditioned to think that everyone who doesn't go to meetings must be a raving loony...
 +4 / -0
Witness 007
Witness 007 2 days ago
Why did Jehovah let the battery die!!! Another example of his love.
 +4 / -0
Conanthebeliever
Conanthebeliever a day ago

I like this.
You helped her out, even after all the years of being blanked, and after helping, she was actually talking to you, being kind.
This proves you are a kind person, and I think that might of shocked her a little, she probably expected you to be some crazy lunatic, as JW's are taught of apostates.
All the best, Conan.
 +2 / -0

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Conversation on FB with a witness who doesn't know me
by Peony 5 days ago 4 Replies latest 5 days ago   jw friends
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Peony
Peony 5 days ago

So on my facebook feed this morning pops up a picture with the words 'Jehovahs Witnesses the Happiest people on Earth' I have no idea why i can see this must have come from a friend of a friend! Anyway i take a quick peak at the comments, about 30 of them all saying the same JW Propoganda. Then ,non JW, makes a comment about a terrible person she knows that is a JW and that JW's break up families and listen to man and not God.
JW Replies: Just because someone says they're from a certain faith doesn't mean they're living it. It's not God that breaks up families, People make that decision.
So I'm afraid this is red rag to a bull for me as i disassociated from the religion and will not take the blame for the fact that family are shunning me and I'm not sure I believe in God anymore but I'm sure he doesn't want to be blamed either, so I answer.
Me: 'JW' I think you have just agreed with 'non JW' she says you believe what man says and not God, you say God does not break up families.......So presumably the shunning of Disfellowshipped/Disassociated ones has come from Men.
JW: Thats from the Bible
Me: So GOD breaks up families then? Does he tell you to shun people? Where is that Scripture?
JW: Read the bible its pretty clear, God doesn't break up families, he tells you how to have a happy family. He doesn't force anyone to worship him, Dont worry.
Me: I like that he wants us to have a happy family, that is how it should be, but I'm Confused, you said shunning had come from the bible......how does not talking to a family member help you to have a happy family life? If God doesnt force any to worship him, how come if you leave you lose your family? Is that not emotional Blackmail? At this point i can believe she hasn't cottoned on!!!
JW: The only way you get disfellowshipped is if you are committing Gross Sin, (blah blah lists every Gross sin) Be glad he gives you guidelines and then upholds them. But it is a free will choice, we have free will to listen or not. (yeah right)! Then i get an example of a married man having an affair.......she goes on and on about this. And then says : so what breaks up families - affairs.
( i ignore the bit about the affair as i'm feeling she has issues) Me: So what if you have done nothing wrong (broken no laws) and just disassociate because you just don't want to be a witness anymore (as you said God does not force us to worship him) why then do they get shunned and again where is the scriptural basis for that?
JW: You're not (now i'm confused, is there new light, am i not shunned anymore)!
JW: (before i get to answer) She does me a screen shot of 1 Cor 5
Me: That's talking about those who have done something wrong........what about those that just disassociate?
JW: Hebrews 10.26 Once you willfully know the truth from God and Turn your back on it etc
Again before i can answer she gives me a gift from heaven JW: Again, all in the bible, even the King James Bible.
Me: The King James Bible says 'if you sin willfully there will be no sacrifice for sins' so we are still talking about sin. Maybe your bible has been changed to fit your beliefs. You still have shown no scriptural proof that says to shun those who choose (because of God given free will) to leave.
Here comes the avoidance tactic JW: I'm happy I know the truth. You sound bitter and unhappy living 'as you please', (she goes on about boundaries being there for a reason. And then harps on about the sin of christmas and easter (more avoidance) And based on this conversation you are either disfellowshipped or disassociated (finally she gets it) so i will let the bible speak for itself 1 Tim 3.16 (this killed me i think she meant 2 Tim 3.16)
I'm rumbled so i got everything off my chest, i have had a year to think about this!!
Me: You've obviously got me wrong, I am not bitter at all, I have the best life ever......I walked away and disassociated myself which is why I have the best life ever. I could not be associated with an organisation that told me that the UN were the Wild Beast and yet were members for 10 years! Your own organisation book says if someone affiliates themselves with an organisation contrary to Gods Kingdom then they have disassociated themselves, Your own organisation has done that, ironic! An organisation that has covered up over 1000 child abuse cases in Australia and are currently under investigation there. Also under investigation by the Charity Commission in the UK for their practices added to the fact that my monthly donations went to pay out of court settlements worth millions of dollars to those abused while many abusers are not disfellowshipped and enjoy good standing in the congregations. So yes I have been surprised that i am shunned for exercising my God given free will and left. I know there is no scriptural basis for shunning disassociated ones which was why I was trying to get you to use your critical thinking skills and question that teaching. As you could not answer my question and give scriptural support to your beliefs I emplore you to question what you are taught. It is mans word, not Gods. I only answered this as it came up on my fb feed and made me chuckle 'JW's happiest people on earth'....half my congregation were on anti depressants! So I am not bitter, I am happy to out of it and wouldnt trade that for anything. Perhaps you had better not reply now you know, its not worth you getting into trouble over, I genuinely wish you well.
Well that was it, needless to say it disappeared off fb but hopefully some of the previous posters had seen at least some of it ( i doubt if it will make a jot of difference but i do believe you can't unsee something once you have seen it)
 +10 / -0
StephaneLaliberte
StephaneLaliberte 5 days ago

To be honest with you... she probably stopped reading and deleted the post at the UN bit of information.
I would advise, next time, to stick to your guns and simply asks the same question again. You may also expose her tactics.
For instance: You have yet to answer my question. Instead, you have used "ad hominem", that is, attacking the person making the argument rather than offering counter arguments. This is what you have done by calling me bitter, unhappy, disfellowshipped or disassociated. Please stay on track and explain, from the bible, why someone that did not commit a gross sin, should be shunned by his own family should he choose to leave the witnesses?
 +8 / -1
Freeandclear
Freeandclear 5 days ago
Nice job. They have taken the red pill (or was it the blue one?) and you can never wake them up from the matrix. But all you can do is try. It's very sad how deluded they are and how they shut their minds off the minute anything is said that disagrees with the WTS. I was there once myself as I'm sure most of us in here were....... Too bad they are wasting their lives. Then again, which is better? The steak in the matrix (Paradise just around the corner) or the gruel in the ship (the real truth about life, that there are no real answers to the big questions and well just have to wait and see?) I prefer to think of myself as that one young man on the ship that was enthusiastic about the nourishing gruel. He viewed it as a great thing, and I prefer to look at the mysteries of life as a great thing too. Either something else is out there or it's not and we won't know anyway. So that free's me to live the best life I can NOW and hope for the best at the end.
 +2 / -0
Peony
Peony 5 days ago

Stephane I doubt she read any of the last comment.....but deep down I hope she will know that she was unable to give scriptural proof. I had the same thing when I was in.....I couldn't answer why the God of the Old Testament was cruel I dreaded being asked it in the ministry. I think waking up is a process of many things combined, all we can do is hopefully chip away.
Free and Clear, I'm happy to wait and see about the future and isn't gruel a bit like porridge, I'm Scottish, love a bit of porridge, lol
 +3 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 5 days ago
Nice try may get her thinking. In my experience one needs to stay on point and never ever say your an ex jw, their brain turns off at that point.
 +2 / -0

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Gay ex-Bethelite
by Chip Williamson 5 days ago 36 Replies latest 4 days ago   jw experiences
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Chip Williamson
Chip Williamson 5 days ago

Just now finding this web site and have enjoyed reading the comments. I've never written down my story and it could be a Jerry Springer episode but here goes.
I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness from as early as I can remember. After highschool, I went to a 2 year technical college since 4 year institutions were frowned upon. I worked part time, became a regular pioneer, MS then elder and did enter Bethel service at WTF in the mid 80s. Even though I was still a virgin, I knew deep down that I was attracted to men. Being at Bethel with all of these clean cut, young, testosterone filled young workers was torture for me. If my secret ever became known, I was sure to be kicked out and DFd. I spent 5 years there, working my butt off and secretly lusting after some of the guys there. There actually were some very attractive guys there. I never had a sexual experience there but a close friend of mine who I think suspected I had a crush on him would sit on the front row when I had a talk or service meeting part and he would wink at me. It was confusing to me but I never acted on it thinking it was a trap.
I left Bethel service after 5 years for the main reason of I knew I was gay and I was wasting my time if I wanted to live my life. Plus going to bed with blue balls every night was tough as JWs frowned on masturbation too. I came back home and continued to pioneer and my parents pressed me on the marriage issue. I did not want to marry as I knew I was gay but I thought maybe marrying a female would cure me.
I found a nice sister that Ive known as a friend for years we began dating and got married. My 1st time having sex with anyone was on my honeymoon night. I was so lost. I didn't know what to do but somehow managed. Our marriage didn't last very long for a couple of reasons. 1st our parents pressured us into getting married, 2nd reason is I really wanted to be with a man and 3rd - she really wanted to be with a woman. Yep Jerry Springer show!! We divorced and she is happy with her wife and I am incredibly happy with my husband of 10 years now. He encouraged me to go back and finish my education. I finished my Bachelors and Masters degrees thanks to his encouragement. I celebrated my 1st birthday and Christmas ever with him. Of course my parents don't talk to me because I am gay and DFd. His parents don't speak to him because he's white and married a non-white. Crazy right?
We are so happy and free now!!!!!
 +49 / -4
steve2
steve2 5 days ago

Hey welcome Chip. We are an unknown but likey large number of born-in men and women who have known since our early years that we are sexually attracted to the same sex.
Sometimes heterosexuals ask, Why do gay men and women marry members of the opposite sex knowing they are homosexuals? Your OP provides compelling answers. While I did not marry, at differemt times in my younger years, I had at least 3 JW women keen to pursue relationships with me, one who even knew I was gay.
Those of us who have the wherewithal to get out and make happy lives for ourselves are lucky. Whilst I was never sexually active when I was in the organization, I knew of at least 3 young ones locally who killed themselves because of the struggles over sexual orientation. There have doubtlessly been others that I don't know about.
And the most Jw org does is suggest to young ones it is likely a phase and warn about living a life of celibacy or face Jehovah's wrath.
I hope your JW family have been able to find away to be supportive to you and your husband.
 +14 / -2
Je.suis.oisif
Je.suis.oisif 5 days ago
Hi & welcome Chip.
 
freemindfade
freemindfade 5 days ago

Welcome
glad you are able to live as your true self
 
LoveUniHateExams
LoveUniHateExams 5 days ago

Hi Chip, welcome to the forum.
 
sparky1
sparky1 5 days ago
Very interesting story.............and WELCOME TO THE FORUM.
 +2 / -0
ShirleyW
ShirleyW 5 days ago

It's interesting that you wanted to be with a man and your wife wanted to be with a woman, I've heard of that happening before, but not among "Jehovahs faithful servants", but it probably has happened in the Borg. We all know by this point that Bethel is basically a meat market for young men. That plus the fact that there's so many obviously gay people in the Borg, but when the nosy folks get together and discuss how Bro/Sis so and so appears to be homosexual, someone always says Jehovah will take care of it, clean up his organization in due time, and let them continue pioneering or being an elder, but if a new obviously gay person starts studying, somewhere down the line they will have a "discussion" about what is their intent about coming a JW, such hypocrisy.
That's why I use the name ShirleyW on this board to show the hypocrisy, that's the name of one of the two pioneer sisters that started attending the KH I grew up in when I was about nine or ten years old, I'm pushing 60 in a few years and these two are still "roommates". Yes I know there are many roommates all over the planet that are not in a relationship, but if you knew these two, you can get a good read of what's going on.
 +3 / -0
Skedaddle
Skedaddle 5 days ago

Big welcome to you Chip. Wow, what a story! You sound really happy!
@ShirleyW - Ha, I'm trying to think back now if there were ''couples'' in my Jdub area. I'm sure there were... My innocent mind back then wouldn't have picked up on anything but now, well let me see... :smile:
 +3 / -0
Slidin Fast
Slidin Fast 5 days ago

What a great story. I am so glad you got yourself organised. Happy, well educated and free! That's a happy ending. No pun intended. Well, maybe a bit.
 +3 / -0
ShirleyW
ShirleyW 5 days ago
Skedaddle - Just think back, I'm sure you can remember that Brother that gave off the hint that he was gay, there's always one or two in the Congs that shared the same hall that you would probably know about.
 +1 / -0
sparky1
sparky1 5 days ago

Hi Shirley,
I am 60 years old and have seen this many times with 'female' pioneer roommates. DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL is alive and well in Jehovah's Organization!
 +4 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 5 days ago

Interesting story Chip, I knew of 3 JWS guys who got married while being self acknowledged as being gay who eventually left their female wives for men, one was my own brother.
All these guys unfortunately had children while being married to their female wives, which retrospectively wasn't a good thing.
 +7 / -0
ToesUp
ToesUp 5 days ago

Welcome.
Wow you weren't kidding, that was a Jerry Springer episode if I ever heard one. lol
Thank you for sharing your story. Glad you are happy!
I think there are more "sisters" out their doing their thing with other "sisters" than they lead us to believe. I agree with Sparky1 above....don't ask, don't tell.
 +3 / -0
truthwillsetyoufree
truthwillsetyoufree 5 days ago

Welcome chip! Thanks for sharing your experience! There seems to be many people raised as witnesses who turned out gay, myself included. I got myself involved with a brother 10 years older than me when i was 17 and pioneering. It was all quite messy as the age limit of consent hadnt been lowered to 16 at that point and had things really spiralled he would have been reported as a sex offender. But there was another lad who confessed to me he was gay and there were 5 others who were also gay in the same congregation who were trying to playing it straight.
Hope you enjoy the forum and keep on posting!
 +4 / -0
Harvard Illiterate 411
Harvard Illiterate 411 5 days ago
Hello sweetheart! I am so happy for you both actually and glad you are living your life! F**k the haters! I'll drink to that.

 +2 / -0
Village Idiot
Village Idiot 5 days ago
Welcome Chip.
 
Giordano
Giordano 5 days ago
Welcome Chip. We love tell tale Bethel stories around here. It's been eye opening. God's House. Feel free to dish the Bethel dirt......
 +4 / -0
gma-tired2
gma-tired2 5 days ago
Chip your story and my sons story are very close. The difference is he never went to Bethel. His father and I never encouraged it. He is now married to his husband for 2 years but have been together for 20. His dad and I chose to leave JWs so no one could try to break our family apart. We now live happy content lives
 +8 / -0
TheListener
TheListener 5 days ago

Welcome Chip! What a story. I'm glad you and your ex-wife found happiness. Really just an amazing story.
You were at WTF in the 80s? I don't know if Chip is your real name but if so do you mind telling us some more about your experiences there? What department did you work in? What congregation were you assigned? If that's too personal I get it I won't expect answers.
Glad you joined and posted.
 +1 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 5 days ago

Happiness IS the truth. 😀Congratulations.
DY
 +1 / -0

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Gay ex-Bethelite
by Chip Williamson 5 days ago 36 Replies latest 4 days ago   jw experiences
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BeautifulMind
BeautifulMind 5 days ago
Welcome Chip!
 
Coded Logic
Coded Logic 5 days ago




 +2 / -0
John Free
John Free 5 days ago

Welcome chip!!
Quite a twist at the end of the story!
And they all lived happily ever after... ...
Sorry to hear about your parents situation though but I'm glad you're living life your way.
 +1 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 5 days ago

Welcome.
I knew of a brother at Bethel who also struggled with coming to terms with his orientation.
He was a mixed up guy sadly because of it all.
 +1 / -0
zophar
zophar 5 days ago

I knew a Sister who married a gay man. She did not know he was gay at the time of their marriage but found out on her wedding night. She could never accept it and eventually this lovely person committed suicide. No doubt there were many emotional issues but she confided in her friend what she knew about her husband and how it was affecting her. She seemed to try her best to be a good wife, and of course, divorce seemed out of the question for her. I guess she endured as long as she could.
Her husband never remarried. I've never been able to view him the same way since.
 
LisaRose
LisaRose 5 days ago
Welcome, thanks for sharing your story! I can think of few thinks worse than being a gay JW, double the guilt and fear! glad you finally broke free.
 +2 / -0
Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Billy the Ex-Bethelite 5 days ago

Welcome Chip!
Up at WTF, did you hear any of George Couch's morning worship comments about "homos" and his warnings about going to clubs in Greenwich Village like CBGBs?
He had a bizarre way of discussing the subject. It's like it was supposed to be something bad, yet it came across as more entertaining and actually made us more curious about the details. "It starts with a couple of brothers horsing around, wrestling in their underwear, and the next thing you know BAM, they're a couple of homos!" Really George? I think you're leaving out a few details... LOL

 +7 / -0
Freeandclear
Freeandclear 5 days ago
Congrats on finding your way out and finding your happiness in life. What more could anyone in this world want than to see others happy and thriving?
 +1 / -0
Wasanelder Once
Wasanelder Once 5 days ago




 
Dagney
Dagney 5 days ago

Welcome Chip! Thank you for sharing your story. It's wonderful you and your ex-wife have been able to create happy lives for yourselves...so many do not.



 +1 / -0
millie210
millie210 5 days ago

Hi and welcome to the forum Chip.
Im glad you took the time to tell your story. Here is hoping it will help anyone reading here who is struggling to see the value of being true to oneself, as you were.
Your story has a happy ending!
 +1 / -0
Beth Sarim
Beth Sarim 5 days ago
Welcome to the forum Chip!!!!
 
sissyb
sissyb 4 days ago
Welcome! You certainly do have an interesting story! I'm sorry you and your husband are shunned by your families. At least you have each other and can live your lives honestly and fully. Congrats!
 
fulltimestudent
fulltimestudent 4 days ago

zophar : I knew a Sister who married a gay man. She did not know he was gay at the time of their marriage but found out on her wedding night. ... I guess she endured as long as she could. Her husband never remarried. I've never been able to view him the same way since.

Have you been judging him purely on the fact that he attempted to conform to Christian rules and failed. Please think this out further.
The ability to become sexually aroused is more or less dependent on attraction to the potential partner. If sexual attraction does not exist then (unless the male is a very highly sexed person) the male partner may not get an erection.
My friend tells me that he married a witness girl trusting that the YHWH/JESUS god would heal him. He had (at that time) an implicit trust in YHWH/JESUS. And he did love the girl, (he says) with a pure love. Of course, his inability to perform as often as his wife wanted, led inevitablly to a coldness between them. He tells that he often laid awake at night , praying to YHWH/JESUS to help him. They didn't! And he still laid awake at night willing himself to have an erection, but his own will also failed.
WHY? Because his natural sexual attraction was/is to other males. Only the poison of an evil Christianity has made people think that same sex attraction is evil and they must change.
So if you want to think bad of someone in your example, tell YHWH/JESUS what a poisonous pair of old bastards they really are.
 +3 / -0
crazyhorse
crazyhorse 4 days ago
Hi there! I love your story and it gives me encouragement. Thank you.
 +1 / -1
KateWild
KateWild 4 days ago

Hey Chip,
Great story, it will help others in your position
Kate xx
 
Lieu
Lieu 4 days ago
Kewl and welcome. Do you and your ex get together with your mates and have some laughs from time to time? ... and bbq.
 

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Topic Summary
just now finding this web site and have enjoyed reading the comments.
i've never written down my story and it could be a jerry springer episode but here goes.
i was raised as a jehovah's witness from as early as i can remember.



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How to spot faders or "closeted" apostates in a congregation / meeting?
by nevaagain 6 days ago 33 Replies latest 4 days ago   jw friends
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nevaagain
nevaagain 6 days ago

So I am awoken for several years now (never really bought the cool aid) but for family reasons I am still enduring everything. But my wife knows ...
Anyway so yesterday we had this boring meeting and as I was sitting there trying to make time pass faster I looked around me and I thought who else feels the same as me and is completely bored? And then I thought, who else from this congregation is also fully awoken and might be a lurker or even an active member of this message board?
Judging from the talks and their comments, none of our higher ranks are awoken. They are trying to accomplish something - that is more hours in service and try to reach all the ppl in several languages. So when I talk to them, they make me feel like something is wrong with me, for not putting the same hours as they are doing. For not showing the same zeal as they are doing.

There was a brother a couple of years ago, his wife was ill, she would not come to the meetings and he would come alone with this little son. He almost never gave comments, even though from the way he talked after the meeting, he seemed quite knowledgeable. When he came to the meetings, he would sit on the last row, playing games on his smartphone. Then he stopped coming to the meetings altogether and I heard from others that he some "crazy" ideas.
Too bad I never really talked to him, I guess I never wanted to expose myself.

We recently got a former special pioneer couple. They look tired and a little be unhappy. Even though they were special pioneers, I dont get the same vibe from them as the other pioneers in our congregation, so lets see if they might be up to something.
So right now, that is how I am spending my meeting, trying to spot "closeted" apostates and faders :wink:

 +15 / -0
Ignoranceisbliss
Ignoranceisbliss 6 days ago

Same for me. I had a couple prospects at my hall but so far they have all fizzled out. I would think that if someone else was awake in my Congo it would be pretty easy to pick up on my feelings.
Iggy
 
OneGenTwoGroups
OneGenTwoGroups 6 days ago

We had an MS in our congregation go apostate last year, I watched the whole thing play out. He's gone, I'm still chair warmer, feeling like an idiot. Too bad he's never really done much on any of the xJW forums, cause I've beena lookin for em.
I would never had guessed he was waking up until the very end when he started missing meetings.
 +5 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 6 days ago

Don't assume that anyone who seems like they are a fader is indeed aware of TTATT!
 +9 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 6 days ago

Sounds interesting Onegen!
What part of the world are you in?
 +2 / -0
crazy_flickering_light
crazy_flickering_light 6 days ago

I think you can't discover every awoken. I hope so, don't crush my plans of fading. I have to attend the meetings (MS) and so I fake a big part of it. But from the outside I look perfect: coloured WT, some text on the side (BS means biblestudy, please don't missunderstand.), answers,...
If you know me, you only know I'm a critical thinker, sometimes very critical. But unless you know me very good, you think I'm full in. I hope there a lot of people in the cong awoken but to afraid to show it.
 +11 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 6 days ago
Was in the same boat crazy flickering.....then just couldn't keep up the charade anymore....
 +2 / -0
crazy_flickering_light
crazy_flickering_light 6 days ago

At the moment I have to. Yes, it's hard. Its part of my plans I work at the moment, I hope I have to step down the next time. Will make them kick me to start my fade and not to step down on my own. Should be a very cool WTF-moment in the cong. Until this happens, I try to wake up others. At this moment it worked!
You know: If you want an apostate friend, you have to make a friend an apostate!
 +9 / -1
brandnew
brandnew 6 days ago

How do ya spot a fader????? Thats easy!!!!!!! They aint there😂😂😂😂😂
Mad Puppy
 +15 / -0
TheListener
TheListener 6 days ago

While I faded I appeared totally committed to dubdom. It wasn't until I started missing more and more meetings that anyone caught on. By then it was too late as I had slowly and quietly withdrew my friendship from most in the hall.
At least one other couple has faded from my old hall, which surprised me at first but then I thought about a few of our conversations and realized they'd be a bit too liberal in their thinking about things. At the time I figured they were just a bit less judgmental than others.
 +6 / -0
MarkofCane
MarkofCane 6 days ago
That's a tough one. With so many that are indifferent anymore it hard to spot a real soldier. We made some new friends since my fading and my wife took to them as well, if you met them you would definitely assume they are awake. I threw them some bait once and they spouted the normal JW garbage, they might of pretended just to throw us off in case we were...... on to them. We are a sneaky class ain't we.....

 +3 / -0
suavojr
suavojr 6 days ago
It's not that eady easy to spot, since the people who are awake (me included) need to masquerade our feelings and mostly bite our tongues. We all have to live within a closed environment where any slight dissent will take you to a judicial committee. It surely is a captive organization.
 +4 / -0
tor1500
tor1500 6 days ago

Hi,
I'm sitting here reading all of your posts, and laughing because that's just what I do when I'm at the hall. I participate but I observe how the congregation reacts. I've noticed that when they don't drink the kool-aide, their necks get stiff, their whole body language is different. There are times I feel I may recognize someone on this site as being in my congregation, but NOT, I think it's wishful thinking.
I know that most of them may know TTATT, but as many have said on this forum, they have family in, so they just go to keep the peace. I go because I like the friends, a lot. But I also don't spend a lot of my time with them. I don't want whatever they have....there is a deep rooted sadness in them....even a mean'ness, or the best way is that they are very judgmental, I'm so the opposite of the mind-set.
I've commented on this site a few times....& I still believe that many are in because being a Jehovah Witness gives them an identity, if that name is taken away from them, they would just be Joe Blow Or Josephine Blow. Why do you think they count hours...It's a validation. Majority of them need that. They need to do things to be seen & given a pat on the back. If you really pay attention, it's kind of sad. At times I feel pity for them. Many of them are not even comfortable in their own skins.
When you compliment them, they think it's holy to be so humble, but to an extreme. I could go on, because as someone said on this site...of which I love, this site is way better than going to a shrink & far less expensive....A place to vent with folks that understand.
I love knowing TTATT, I can sit at my meetings in peace. Sometimes on this site there a letters posted before they get to the hall. I love it. I speak with many of the friends, but it's hard not to share what I know. But this is also a test for me, to keep my mouth shut & just go with the flow...
I think about leaving, more times then not. I pray to God & say, if I'm not 'posed to be here....let me know...But God, don't make it hurt, don't let me be DF'd. I'm so hoping that there is a God, so he'll show me the way....OUT.
Tor
 +4 / -0
No Longer a JW Brother
No Longer a JW Brother 6 days ago
It's not that easy man. Either they are not there or they are good at hiding it. I was a fader for almost 2 years and during that time I was awake, I was an MS, gave comments, did field service, manned the literature counter and all that shit. I can remember though singing my own lyrics to the songs and laughing to myself to keep my sanity. Unless you can read their mind it is tough. Peace.

 +5 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 5 days ago



How do ya spot a fader????? Thats easy!!!!!!! They aint there😂😂😂😂😂
Mad Puppy
..................................http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab110/GeneralWaco/thsmilie_happy_251.gif
 +3 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon 5 days ago

Not regular at meeting attendance (your record is better and you have doubts).
You never see them in service.
Rarely comment.
Rolling their eyes during prayer.
Take off like a bat out of hell after the meetings, (not interested in talking to anyone).
Finally, they become ill on meeting nights but when you see them any other time they are
as happy as a slave with his freedom.
 +4 / -0
Vidiot
Vidiot 5 days ago

Looking back, I'm pretty sure that I couple JWs I knew were TTATTers.
I live a long ways away now, so there wouldn't be much point following up on it.
 
StephaneLaliberte
StephaneLaliberte 5 days ago

You know, when I was in, pretending, sometimes, I would make the most zeleous comments that I didn't believe a bit just so that I could laugh about it later in the car with my wife.
Something like: We should always follow the Faithful slave, even if they ask things we don't understand. We need to remember that they have more of Jehovah's Spirit as a group than we could ever have as individuals. Thus, even if they have changed a few teachings here and there, we need to trust Jehovah and assume they are right this time - even when we don't understand it. We should trust and wait on Jehovah and pray for his Faithful slave."



Would you have guest that I was a closet apostate?


 +8 / -0
MarkofCane
MarkofCane 5 days ago

Hey James Mixon
That's me to the tee. I'm giving myself away apperantly. Lol
 
Vidiot
Vidiot 5 days ago

@ Stephane...
I always thought that if you were really stuck in with no way you could leave, acting like a rabid GB fanboy could be a lot of fun... Poe's Law taken to a crazy-ass extreme.
 +3 / -0

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How to spot faders or "closeted" apostates in a congregation / meeting?
by nevaagain 6 days ago 33 Replies latest 4 days ago   jw friends
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TheListener
TheListener 5 days ago
No Longer A JW Brother, I did that too! I made up my own lyrics to the songs but no one ever caught on. It was a small amount of rebellion that made the early days of my fade bearable.
 +4 / -0
LongHairGal
LongHairGal 5 days ago

NEVAAGAIN:
You may not be able to spot them in the hall because they will have their "JW face" on..You also don't want to put somebody on the spot because they will deny it. They may have a lot to lose as in family and even business connections!
Never mind who IS or is not "fading". Just get yourself out of there and if and when you meet somewhere - then you can trade stories!
 +1 / -0
brandnew
brandnew 5 days ago

Oh !! Oh !!!!oh !!! Yeah yeah.....makin your own words was cool!!!!! Like..........KEEP UR EYES ON THE PRIZE=
KEEP YOUR EYES OFF MY FRIES 😂😂😂😂
Mad Puppy
 +7 / -0
No Longer a JW Brother
No Longer a JW Brother 5 days ago
From my own personal experience I think 20% of all JWs know TTATT but nobody wants to be the first to admit that they know. Its a game.

 +7 / -0
freddo
freddo 5 days ago

Own Lyrics.
"Kiss my bum lest god be angry ..."
 +7 / -0
tor1500
tor1500 5 days ago

@NLAJWBro,
Do you really think it's as low as 20% know about TTATT. I was thinking maybe more but won't say anything. Once I was looking at one of those TV preachers (love him but won't tell his name, but he is dynamite, he makes you look at yourself, not easy). Anyways, when the camera scanned the audience....I don't swear but I thought I saw a DO, I know there are no longer DO's in the org. He has such a distinct face, I really thought I saw him. Maybe I did, maybe after he was no longer a DO, he said, what the heck, I'll do what I darn well please.
I agree with you....who can have the best poker face...One thing we do know witnesses can't keep a secret, but TTATT, they are doing a great job, at least 8 million of them are.
I'm wishing you the best. You'll be just fine...Just don't be angry, as many on this site say, BE HAPPY...
Tor
 
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 5 days ago
I think less then 2% really know ttatt, maybe a few know a little ttatt but still can't put two and two together. Their a really isolated bunch. Think about how little we knew until something pushed us over the edge and we woke up.
 +3 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 5 days ago
Same here...but eventually keeping up the act gets tiring!
 +1 / -0
jwfacts
jwfacts 5 days ago

Be careful with approaching anyone thinking they are a fader. I assumed a few were in my congregation by comments they had made, or how irregular they were, but they were all very annoyed when I discussed that I did not believe it was the Truth.
The best indicator may be people that mutter or shake their heads when dogmatic comments are made from the platform.
 +5 / -0
Hadriel
Hadriel 5 days ago

At this point I honestly believe they'd be better coined "PRE-FADERs". Why do I say that? Well I think of myself. It is really really hard to listen to the indoctrination when you are fully awake.
So those that are say irregular or otherwise may not be Faders but are actually pre-faders. They may have some serious doubts but we've had it beaten into our heads for so long that many even with serious doubts cling. You can actually I believe rekindle their spirit if not careful as they'll feel "Satan is attacking".
To date it has been better to say things like "boy that's tough to swallow" or "I wonder what scriptural basis was used for that"?
Meaning questions that are platonic in nature but force the person to honestly think about it. This has happened twice so far with me. If they are in "PRE-FADE" you'll have them coming back to you, saying "you know I checked this out and guess what I found?".
Even at that point I'd still be careful but see the onus is on them at that point as they contacted you.
 +3 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon 5 days ago

What so funny, you are fading but you are probably one of the few in the KH that understand the BS.
Your knowledge of the Bible is for greater than most there, so you may listen and in your mind
you are thinking, what the hell did he say. You become stronger and sick to the stomach.
The speaker say some stupid and you look around the Hall at the friends and you hear birds tweeting,
they know not what was said.
Each meeting you are becoming stronger as a Apostate, the words spoken at the meetings are defiantly
not falling on deaf ears.
Hell I may attend a meeting so I can have a good laugh, it's been over 28 years.
 +2 / -0
brandnew
brandnew 5 days ago

Freddo!!!!!! 😂😂😂 that shit was hiiiilarious !!!!!
Mad "lol" Puppy
 +1 / -0
Vidiot
Vidiot 4 days ago


No Longer a JW brther - "From my own personal experience I think 20% of all JWs know TTATT..."
I don't know; my gut tells me it's more.
 
Vidiot
Vidiot 4 days ago


Hadriel - "It is really really hard to listen to the indoctrination when you are fully awake."
Yup.
It's a lot easier to recognize the Kool-Aid for what it is once you've stopped drinking it.
 

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Topic Summary
so i am awoken for several years now (never really bought the cool aid) but for family reasons i am still enduring everything.
but my wife knows ... .
anyway so yesterday we had this boring meeting and as i was sitting there trying to make time pass faster i looked around me and i thought who else feels the same as me and is completely bored?



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Special meeting this weekend in canada anyone know what it is about?
by hoser 6 days ago 10 Replies latest 5 days ago   jw friends
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hoser
hoser 6 days ago
It is announced for Sunday afternoon. I am just wondering if it is a local thing or national.
 +1 / -0
RubaDub
RubaDub 6 days ago

Perhaps news that the NHL will return to Quebec City.
Rub a Dub

 +3 / -0
WingCommander
WingCommander 6 days ago
Fat-assed Geoffery Jackson DEMANDS more maple syrup! The real stuff, not that Aunt Jemima crap!

 +9 / -0
Londo111
Londo111 6 days ago

Probably will be dullsville, but keep us informed!
 +3 / -0
nowwhat?
nowwhat? 6 days ago

dear brothers
we are pleased to inform you of the appointment to the governing body of two loyal brothers from the canadian branch. BEER AND DONUTS FOR EVERYONE!



 +12 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 5 days ago


Special meeting this weekend in canada anyone know what it is about?
......Absolutely..
.

.......WBT$/JW Special Meetings are Always About..
..............Image result for Nothing
 +10 / -0
SAHS
SAHS 5 days ago

This special meeting is actually going to be presented by the visiting zone overseer to the Canadian Bethel branch, which is actually to take place on Saturday, March 5, 2016. (I don’t know his name. Nor do I care.) It will be streamed into local congregations live that day, but some other congregations will have the taped program broadcast online on the following day, Sunday, and add it to their regular consideration of the Watchtower study (which will probably be condensed).
I’m not sure of the scope of attendees to be tied into the program as it’s being streamed live for some congregations and shown the next day for others, but since it is a zone overseer’s visit, I would imagine that the coverage would be at least for all of Ontario.
But I myself actually have plans for when the taped program will be shown this Sunday to attend my first meeting of a secular humanist meetup group (arranged through “meetup.com”). The actual link is: “http://www.meetup.com/YorkRegionHumanists/?” So, luckily for me, I sort of have an excuse to miss this zone overseer’s visit. (I’m taking some more baby steps in my fade.)
 +5 / -0
Quarterback
Quarterback 5 days ago
Last year Canada received a visit from an Australian representative. He compared us to ugly birds who looked depressed. When he left, he left his boomerang, and despite us trying to throwing it back to him, it always came back to us. Now I believe that the ORG has laid off that Guy. I wonder what a depressed Aussie looks like?
 +4 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 5 days ago

Obey, contribute, do more, more, more.
All to emphasize the F.O.G. JW life: Fear, Obligation and Guilt.
This is the beauty of being awakened to TTATT.
DY
 +4 / -0
Lostandfound
Lostandfound 5 days ago

If zone visit overseers are laid off then it desperate and not just average bethelite getting the Glasgow kiss.
That is head butted out.
 +2 / -0
Beth Sarim
Beth Sarim 5 days ago
I wouldn't expect much. It just gives a more awe-inspiring image to see someone ''higher'' up talk.
 +2 / -0

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Advice needed
by Peony 6 days ago 14 Replies latest 5 days ago   jw friends
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Peony
Peony 6 days ago
Can someone tell me the scriptural basis (according to JW's) for shunning disassociated ones. Only asking because I don't remember (probably wasn't that interested) I'm sure the shunning in the Scriptures was just applied to Disfellowshipped. I've only been out 3 years but I seem to have forgotten any scriptures or reasoning! Think I've blocked it out. I've seen a comment on FB (jw who must be a friend of a friend) where a witness has said they believe in Gods word, not mans and then said God does not break up families, I want to comment to the effect that they have contradicted themselves......if God does not break up families then where has the shunning policy come from. I know the usual stock answer from JW's is 'you broke your contract with God' you knew what you were getting yourself into' blah blah. But for me I disassociated, I'm hoping with a bit more understanding of what their basis is I can be prepared to answer that stock reply.
 +1 / -0
Xanthippe
Xanthippe 6 days ago

Hi Peony I think they use this scripture but it's been a very long time for me too so I'm not sure.



If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. 2 John 1 : 10 NIV



I think in the NWT it replaces don't welcome them with do not say a greeting to them, hence the silent treatment.
 +2 / -0
alanv
alanv 6 days ago

Xanthippe & Peony
That scripture is talking about those that deny Jesus came in the flesh or do not keep to his teachings.
JWs who disassociate themselves normally do so for the reason that they no longer go along with Watchtower's false teachings. Most still have a strong faith in Jesus and his teachings. At baptism these days you have to agree to work along with the org, and if you no longer wish to do that, they will say you have disassociated yourself. However there is nothing in the scriptures that says if you reject any false teachings you should be shunned, and certainly nothing in the bible that says you have to go along with anyone teaching something that is not scriptural.
 +4 / -0
Peony
Peony 6 days ago

Thank you xanthippe and alanv
I replied to (Jw) and said ***** I think you have just agreed with *****(she had made a comment that JW's follow men and not God) she says you follow men and not God, you say God does not break up families so where does the shunning of Disfellowshipped disassociated come from.
They can't have it both ways.....if she says its scriptural(which we know it isn't) then God breaks up families and if it's not scriptural they are following men.
 +3 / -0
crazy_flickering_light
crazy_flickering_light 6 days ago
They can. The official WT-spin is: You break up the familiy while you leave god and the cult. There's a study-WT, I think dated Februar this year, where you can read it. (I cant search the articel at the moment, sorry.)
 
millie210
millie210 6 days ago

In my experience, if you use the word "shunning" a JW wont listen to any word after that one.
It takes longer to type but using a phrase such as "not talking to "or
not speaking to" will at least get JWs to read the rest of the sentence.
 +1 / -0
freemindfade
freemindfade 6 days ago
I suggest checking out the insight book, in a nutshell its basically "well big J's people would have stoned you to death, so this is a nice gift from the big guy that we only emotionally torture you" . "if we could we'd still stone you but he says no for now"
 +3 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 6 days ago
Matt 5 Jesus says not to shun, and you may also want to point out that baptism is for forgiveness of sins there are no Scriptures that say its a pledge or contract for anything.
 +1 / -0
Peony
Peony 5 days ago

Thank you all for your comments
I had quite a few Facebook comments with her in the end......was quite surprised she didn't cotton on that I'm disassociated.....and no surprise she could not give scriptural reason for shunning disassociated. I took screen shots of our comments, that was just before they disappeared on FB. Hopefully made her think though.
 +1 / -0
Hadriel
Hadriel 5 days ago

1 Corinthians 5:11 is the primary basis or I should say it starts there. In this chapter the congregation in Corinth is being counseled to not associate with a man that is engaging in incest. This text also includes various other sins there in vs. 11 to show that you would not want to actively associate with those practicing these things.
Two letters in this scripture are the undoing of the organization for starters..."IS". So this scripture would only apply if the person "IS" practicing these things. Again the account here this man was belligerent. Essentially Paul is saying what the heck are you guys doing this guy is bad news.
Less would have issue with this doctrine if the scriptures were followed as prescribed here. See in that time there were no special blue envelops headed to a headquarters somewhere. When the congregation saw such behavior they were to limit their contact. Quit hanging out and so on. Essentially quit acting like there's no issue going a long as they always had with this person.
The kicker here is that as described by others 2 John 1:10 has been lumped in with this however there's little if any basis for doing this. In 2 John this was about those that were denying that Christ ever came. The Jews had preached about the Messiah coming for years now that he was there some were saying he really wasn't who he said he was. It was as simple as that. They denied that he physically came in the flesh.
This was a problem obvious as Jesus was changing things and if these folks didn't believe he was real then they obviously wouldn't follow his teachings.
I would say there are very very few "AntiChrists" that are disfellowshipped. Most are for fornication. In no way someone that commits this sort of sin is the AntiChrist.
Knowing this why in the world would the organization make this large stretch?
It's simple really...silence. It is important to silence ANYONE that brings constructive criticism. This criticism is postured as "poison", "deception" and "apostate lies".
What is is really though? Often nothing more than past doctrines that have been completely abandoned with little or in most cases NO explanation.
Hence this information from their own literature is so damning that they most go beyond the scriptures and letting the local congregation handling the matter to weaponization. An acute cutting off to silence you from speaking the truth.
 +1 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 5 days ago

To put it concisely, the OT of the bible says to separate yourself from evil doers, the WTS takes this onto their own, specifically identifying who is evil and who is obedient (righteous), this includes people who poignantly disagree with the WTS doctrines which are many times noticeably false.

They take and exploit these certain scriptures to serve their own means, The WTS. uses this shunning policy to control people's behavior and appearance over to who they want as their openly obvious sales representatives. Essentially making them the master and their allured followers the weaker designated spiritual slave.
This also creates a semblance of power to those leading men, uplifting their perceived power and personal stature toward themselves.

 
Peony
Peony 5 days ago
I think i may post my conversation as i knew she would try to play the Sin card, so i was asking for scriptural proof of shunning disassociated ones that just wanted to leave, JW's have a spin on it but it is not scriptural so i knew she would not be able to answer. I think i will start a new thread.......it may take a while to type.
 
Hadriel
Hadriel 5 days ago
I don't know your beliefs but unless you are denying Christ they have zero basis for the shunning. Buptkis.
 +2 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 5 days ago
I guess there a 1949 wt stating that shunning was pagan, would love to see and read it and compare it to today's teachings.
 
Peony
Peony 5 days ago
I've posted the conversation..........its rather long i'm afraid.
 

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How did you feel when they eliminated the Con. Book Study?
by Freeandclear 6 days ago 53 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw friends
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Freeandclear
Freeandclear 6 days ago

Years ago when I was "in" I loved the Book Study. It was my favorite meeting by far. Mainly because it was a small group. We were close knit and had a lot of fun at mine. The family that hosted always had snacks and refreshments after and everyone always stayed an hour or more after and socialized. It was a great time for me, and I honestly did more prep-ing for that meeting than any other.
I can remember all the hub-bub about how near the end it would be our CBS group that would be so important to us all. That we would be like a small family and help each other, etc.....
I found it to be the warmest of all the meetings.
Then out of thin air they just up and vanished it. Gone. No real explanation at all other than to simplify things and to make it easier on us due to the pressures of the world, and to get a family study night started to strengthen the family. Well for me as a single male with no family in the Troof that didn't really do me any favors.
Just curious here...how did YOU feel when they eliminated this meeting? Happy, sad, relieved, indifferent?
Thanks.
 +6 / -0
Ucantnome
Ucantnome 6 days ago
i never liked the bookstudy and i eliminated it out of my life as the first meeting not to attend. I preferred to go to the hall for the meeting rather than in a home.
 +4 / -0
freddo
freddo 6 days ago

It was a relief to have another "free" evening where I didn't have to put on a tie and go out for the evening and up until about 2004 when I was still an elder I was always a book study group overseer so that made it even worse.
Given the choice I would rather have kept a one hour study in someone's home and dropped the midweek meeting at the KH.
 +10 / -0
ToesUp
ToesUp 6 days ago

We wish they had eliminated the TMS instead. The most boring meeting. The Book study was actually somewhat enjoyable. We had a fun group.
What shocked us the most was the letter that was read to all congregations. They stated that they did not want to burden the brothers and sisters. We were always taught that this was our "go to" place, in case of emergency. We were told it was as important as any of the other meetings. Now it was a burden? hmmm
Funny how when the BS was on it was important but then when they decided to eliminate it, it was a burden. How convenient.
 +10 / -0
BeautifulMind
BeautifulMind 6 days ago
OMG! Bookstudy was my favorite! When I was in PA we had it at my house, dad was an elder at the time. He's a cool guy so it was real laid back and chill. And last book study of the month we would have a "goodie night" but really it was a full blown dinner lol. And alot of my childhood friends were in my group. Lots of fun. Once I moved to GA book study got better. The brother whose house we went to also had a goodie night. But the interesting thing is after we said "amen" the lights would dim and the food AND cocktails would come out. He would say "the worship is over, now let's relax!" Best conductor ever lol
 +10 / -0
Barrold Bonds
Barrold Bonds 6 days ago
Honestly, after the 4th time we did the Revelation book and those two fucking books about Isaiah (in which every prophecy in the book has the same exact fulfillment) I was pretty much done with the book study.
 +9 / -0
nowwhat?
nowwhat? 6 days ago
I hated getting dressed up for 1 hr. 90% of the time it was dull. Those 2 Isaiah books omg! It sucked. We might of had a goodie night once a year if that. My congregation has always been dull, uptight and no fun allowed.
 +7 / -0
Beth Sarim
Beth Sarim 6 days ago
Yeah, they should have scrapped the TMS. Most labouring and boring meeting of the week(tied with WT), after a long day in the middle of the work week too. With the Book Study, it felt 'homey' often with cake and coffee after. More relaxing atmosphere by far.
 +3 / -0
baker
baker 6 days ago
As a kid growing up in a Protestant church, they had a similar thing on Wednesday nite and always had a full meal for all who attended. It was a great time to socialize and I'm guessing a lot of people came for the food. So removing the B S. was kind of like taking away one chance for people to socialize, which most JW,s need. (B S.=Book study)
 +4 / -0
Fisherman
Fisherman 6 days ago

I felt at the time that the book study required a separate day , not to cram everything into one meeting night., but there was no other way because book study had been determined to be to be part of the JW weekly program and because people do not have the time they had 40 years ago to go to 3 separate meetings a week. So the choice was either to cram another lesson into the meeting or go to another meeting on another night. Since it aint a longer meeting wiith BS included and you dont have to go 3 times a week but only two it turns out to be favorable to everyone.

 +1 / -3
berrygerry
berrygerry 6 days ago

I could wear a sweater instead of a freaking monkey suit - so that was good.
Got to sit on a comfy couch instead of a hard-ass chair - so that was good.
Got to cuddle my kids to sleep - so that was good.
Snack night once a month - so that was good.
Only one hour, instead of two - so that was good.
Conductor was dumber than a sack of hammers - oh, well.

 +8 / -0
LongHairGal
LongHairGal 6 days ago

Since I was already out as a "fader" it didn't make any difference to me.
However, I remember in the old days them saying the book studies in people's homes were going to be important in time of "persecution" when they expected the halls to be "padlocked by the authorities"! So, this was another example of the religion being full of bullshit as far as I was concerned.
I mentioned my thought to an active JW and they said that perhaps the religion would reinstate the home book studies if need be. Yeah, whatever.
I have some pleasant memories of the home bookstudy, although I don't miss poor reading skills. It was excruciating sometimes to listen to some semi-literate brother!
I'm sure the religion did away with the home bookstudy for legal reasons:... liability should somebody fall;...because they could not control the free speech and informality people had there and;...also, I suspect, because some pedo might like it for other reasons.
Everything now has to be under the watchful eyes of the elders in the hall.
 +7 / -0
millie210
millie210 6 days ago

The book study was as close as the religion ever got to anything warm and sociable in a religion sanctioned way.
So they got rid of it.
Of course they did!
 +13 / -0
adjusted knowledge
adjusted knowledge 6 days ago

I left before the Isiah books came out. I think the last book study I went to was the greatest man book. That was around 1999 or so. I was basically inactive in 95 but would attend the book studies once in a while at an elder's house. It was far more enjoyable than the kingdom hall.
I was long gone by the time they canceled it, but glad for my mother, as it one less bs she has to attend.

 +3 / -0
Iown Mylife
Iown Mylife 6 days ago

For me that meeting was so difficult. Parking was always a problem. My car would get blocked in and as a janitor I needed to leave and get to work. People would be so annoyed at having to jockey cars for me.
Temperature was always either too hot or too cold in the houses.
Finally I just began attending at the KH and nobody said anything. Never a problem parking or leaving or sweating or freezing.
But the best part was when it was discontinued and we had the evening for our own life!
Marina
 +4 / -0
FayeDunaway
FayeDunaway 6 days ago
I thought it was the stupidest thing they could do. Book studies were the only way people ever really got close to other people. If you talk to people at the kingdom Hall, it was most likely people who were in your book study or had once been in your book study. What do people do now?? They leave easier than they used to!! Cuz they aren't getting as close to other people! Less familial feelings, less pressure to stay if there are fewer that you really care about.I agree the Isaiah books were simply hell. 1919. 1919. 1919. Thought i was gonna scream. With most books, it was drudgery for sure and the best part was when bookstudy was OVER but when it was over it was nice.
 +3 / -0
zeb
zeb 6 days ago

I wondered why it was boom gone. The elders did too then later came out with the wt.. bs that it was to enable 'family study night'.
My understanding in more recent times says the book study was dropped to prevent the abuse of children in the homes of paedophiles. I have no link for this.
 +1 / -0
TheOldHippie
TheOldHippie 6 days ago
I was and am sad about it. It was the nicest meeting, you got to know the others, you could ask questions, you had time to discuss things, very often there was food or cakes - I miss it.
 +2 / -0
Cangie
Cangie 6 days ago
I'm guessing that the book study was the meeting that resulted in the least amount of money being collected. Therefore, it became a financial waste of time to the organization to produce those books that required all that "research.". And besides...they couldn't allow people to have that much fun at a meeting.

 +6 / -0
slimboyfat
slimboyfat 6 days ago

It was my favourite meeting. Dropping probably contributed in a small way to me becoming inactive.
Plus how they lied about "gas prices" being the reason was just ridiculous.
 +5 / -0

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How did you feel when they eliminated the Con. Book Study?
by Freeandclear 6 days ago 53 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw friends
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St George of England
St George of England 6 days ago

We had our CBS in the KH. Every week as soon as the meeting finished we had tea and cakes and sat around chatting for an hour or so. Despite rubbish publications it was a good meeting.
As soon as it was abolished I decided to use the time to do personal study. The first time I went on the internet and looked up Jehovah's Witnesses I came across jehovahs-witness.net. My world changed at that point!
George
 +12 / -0
prologos
prologos 6 days ago
After the cancelation, the same time-slot, was now monopolized by the ego-maniacs in the congregation that felt they are god's gift to men, rather than the dozen voices or so heard in privacy. I liked the quality delicatessen brought, and we held the book study on saturday morning before the field service, allowing the camouflaging of your fade.
 +1 / -0
nevaagain
nevaagain 6 days ago

I had a bitter sweet relationship with the book study.
When I was young, we had the book study on sunday morning. While I didnt care about the book study, I never stayed long to socialize because my dad wanted to go to service asap after it ended. Also good thing was, that it was at our home. So while I didnt mind the book study and some times even enjoyed it, I hated to leave for service.

Later when the bookstudy was during the week and not in our home anymore, I started to miss it. I would make excuses, sometimes even arriving late home. Then I would tell my parents, that they should finally get rid of that, but never really believing that they would and to my surprise they did! But its not that I had something against the book study, but it was one more day that I had to get ready for a "meeting". It would have been even better to get rid of the mid week meeting.

 +2 / -0
jookbeard
jookbeard 6 days ago
I was long gone when this occurred, I found the BS pointless and boring like every meeting we'd drag ourself to, I was also vocal in asking why the 90/hrs per month for pioneers had to be enforced, total lunacy and nothing short of wastefulness, wondering what next is to fall?
 
Thomas the Bill Engine
Thomas the Bill Engine 6 days ago
I think I was about 9 or 10 when they took away that meeting and Tuesday's (Along with "Goody Night", not sure how many congregations did that but I was devastated when it was removed. I guess we weren't enjoying the food in the name of the lord or something). I was glad to have a free night, but not-so-glad when we suddenly were required to sit for an hour and listen to the bible anyway, in the form of Family Worship. In a way Family Worship is even worse than going to the meeting for an hour and doing the book study. But that's just me.
 +5 / -0
sir82
sir82 6 days ago

I was shocked, but quickly recuperated when I realized that it would mean one less meeting that I'd have to rush to after work during the week.
I'd wager that no more than 50%, probably far less, of JWs actually do anything differently than before, regarding "family worship". To most I suspect it's just another night they don't have to get dressed up and go out - a relief.

 +4 / -0
Room 215
Room 215 6 days ago
There was a lot of post-meeting banter among the friends who hung around after the closing prayer for cookies, etc. which I think unnerved the control freaks. Looking back it's another step in the "top-down" plan to centralize and inhibit individual expression.
 +4 / -0
Bonsai
Bonsai 6 days ago
I was quite frankly shocked. I was also relieved. There was a certain family element that I liked about the book study and goody night once a month was nice, too. I don't miss having to read the Revelation Grand Climax book in a foreign language, though. That book was brutal. I never kept up with the changes that we were supposed to paste to the book and as a result the other members would chuckle as I read the un-edited version of it.

 +3 / -0
Jaidubdub
Jaidubdub 6 days ago
Can anyone remember what year they stopped the CBS?
 
Divergent
Divergent 6 days ago
Should be 2008 / 2009
 
stephanie61092
stephanie61092 6 days ago

I remember I was so disappointed when it was done away with. Like many have already posted, it was a great time to hang out with friends and at my book study, we had goody night every week! I never minded sitting through the book study either since it was only an hour long. My family rarely ever did anything for "family worship" so it just became another night of sitting bored around the house.
 +3 / -0
OneEyedJoe
OneEyedJoe 6 days ago

I was really conflicted when they announced this. In my case it was compounded by being at a convention when they did the announcement - so you're in expectation of more "spiritual food" when they make announcements but they were telling us there'd be less.
On the one hand I was relieved to have less meetings to deal with and a free night at home, but at the same time one of my first thoughts was "do not forsake the gathering of yourselves together as some have the custom, but encouraging one another all the more so as you behold the day drawing near." So while it was one of those things that I didn't want to argue with because it was actually beneficial to me, it went in my mental file for reasons this might not actually be "the truth."
 +2 / -0
RubaDub
RubaDub 6 days ago

I was truly happified it was gone.
By the time you get dressed, travel, sit for an hour, chit chat for 20 minutes, come back home, get undressed, etc etc etc .... the evening was gone.
And then the Isaiah and Revelation books week after week, year after year, about stuff that will change anyway.
Rub a Dub

 +2 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 6 days ago

I felt like it was a mistake. It was built as SO important for all my life. I also thought it was a loss because it was a training ground for MS and Elders.
After a few months I was SOOOO Happy to have an Extra Night to myself!!
 +1 / -0
St George of England
St George of England 6 days ago

Can anyone remember what year they stopped the CBS?

Last group - 23rd December 2008
George
 +2 / -0
ShirleyW
ShirleyW 5 days ago

The book study started being held at my parents house when my father got baptized in the late 70's, I know the brothers could hardly wait to get that big finished basement available for meeting,since we had a lot of baby showers and gatherings at my house. I remember when they started having goody night my mother would call me and say "you should come to the meeting tonight if you want some good food, SIs, so and so is fixing this" and on and on. I just blew it off as yet another way my mother was trying to get me to attend the meetings again. How can chicken wings and cake make someone that interested to join da troof ??
 +1 / -0
StephaneLaliberte
StephaneLaliberte 5 days ago
We were always told that the book study was the most important of all. That lie was one of many others that would show me the door through which I made my exit a few years later.
 
Vidiot
Vidiot 5 days ago

I liked it fine, but didn't miss it all that much.
Actually, now at I think about it, I think they discontinued it after I'd started to fade.
 
truthlover
truthlover 5 days ago

Loved it - not matter what excuse they gave, travel, gas, etc... just another night to relax
 
Jaidubdub
Jaidubdub 5 days ago
Thanks George... That was when I was irregular but before I learnt TATT... I was only going to the Sunday meetings at that time. I was very disheartened with some of my personal experiences with some so-called spiritual JW's which left me feeling very hurt & rejected. It was about 3 years later I came across this site - and then everything started to fall in place...
 

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Topic Summary
years ago when i was "in" i loved the book study.
it was my favorite meeting by far.
mainly because it was a small group.



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How did you feel when they eliminated the Con. Book Study?
by Freeandclear 6 days ago 53 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw friends
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Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 4 days ago

One of the best changes. Hated that awful meeting!
Now, some time soon, I hope they do away with the Friday in the regional assembly.
DY
 +1 / -0
blondie
blondie 4 days ago
They still have a book study, just everyone goes to the KH and it is the first meeting on a weekday and shortened followed ;now by the redone school and service meeting. Still studying some jw book.
 
TheListener
TheListener 4 days ago
Wow the bookstudy has been gone awhile now. Imagine how many witnesses probably don't even remember the bookstudy! We probably have posters here who joined the dubs and left and never even attended a bookstudy.
 
pixel
pixel 4 days ago

Nice tread. Who was around this forum by the time the letter leaked regarding the cancellation of the BS? Oh! j-w.com always ahead of the times!
BTW, I used to liked the BS. Would have loved for them to drop the TMS instead.

 
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 4 days ago

I was here and thought it was all made up. When it was announced in the KH, I was so happy that I could not stop my ear to ear grin. Same when it was announced that the small assemblies would only be one day each.
I just really hate meetings of any kind. I am quite a happy hermit. The times I fake some illness and stay home from a meeting, I am so very happy in peace and quiet at home! JWs are much too social a group for my style.
DY
 
Alive!
Alive! 4 days ago

It went against the scriptural suggestion to draw closer together 'as the day draws near' - and I know many of us were puzzled....and the "book-study" had been sold to me/us as a critical meeting as this would be our safe 'go to' when the shite hit the fan.
And it was whipped away, I loved my group - we all grew close....and the feeling of mutual care was wonderful.
Interestingly, other churches have 'life groups' in members homes and these are viewed as central to the congregational life (at least it is at our local baptist church which I have visited occasionally) - I went to a life group meeting at someone's house, I was impressed with their togetherness and caring support, they prayed for individuals needing strength and courage through difficulties, offered help to each other and made plans to give pratical assistance ,they discussed a bible topic - food and drinks afterwards....
I was suspicious of the decision to cut the Bookstudy group - a niggling intutuion told me the reasons were not about our welfare, but about keeping control, breaking up the possibility of too much closeness.....
As I haven't any family in the org - I really appreciated the 'family' that was our Bookstudy group.
I have to laugh now, when I remember that the TMS was held up as our 'training' for speaking boldly, especially when the inevitable time came that we'd be thrown in front of the courts......yes, that's what was said.
After watching the performance of WT reps, including Jackson at the ARC...I suspect the TMS didn't them help at all....unless it was to speak without frankness, honesty and humility.
 +1 / -0
Tenacious
Tenacious 4 days ago
Dancing smileyDancing smileyDancing smileyDancing smileyDancing smileyDancing smileyDancing smiley
 
Alive!
Alive! 4 days ago

Lol - by the way, sorry my posts are always on the long side!
Forgive me! But it feels good to vent and write it out!
 +1 / -0
disillusioned 2
disillusioned 2 4 days ago
At that point, that was the only meeting I was going to, so when that stopped I stopped!
 
dropoffyourkeylee
dropoffyourkeylee 3 days ago
Relief, and one question. Why stop there? The fewer meetings the better!
 +1 / -0
blondie
blondie 3 days ago

WEEK STARTING DECEMBER 7
Song 86 and Prayer
Q Congregation Bible Study:
ia chap. 4 1-15, box on p. 39 (30 min.)
(Changed name to "bible" study and combined with 2 other meetings on same weeknight)
BTW I went to "book" studies held at the KH on nights that the other congregation did not meet, Mondays mostly


And in the May 2016 CLAM
Congregation Bible Study: (30 min.) ia chap. 14 ¶14-22 and the chapter review



https://www.jw.org/en/publications/jw-meeting-workbook/may-2016-mwb/meeting-schedule-may2-8/
 
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 3 days ago


How did you feel when they eliminated the Con. Book Study?
For Decades,the "Book Study in a Private Home"..
Was "ABSOLUTELY THE MOST IMPORTANT MEETING YOU COULD GO TO!!"
Then one day it wasn`t.......It was all just more..
.

..........Image result for Watchtower Logo
Image result for Bullsit Logo
 +1 / -0
JW_Rogue
JW_Rogue 3 days ago
I was super shocked that they would eliminate a meeting but was quite happy about it. Getting dressed and driving to a meeting just for one hour seemed like such a chore. Never understood why it couldn't be more casual, we were in someone's house wearing a full suit and tie. It was funny to me that people who would never have missed the book study were now praising the "new arrangement". In reality they never liked the book study at all!
 
Vidiot
Vidiot 2 days ago


Freeandclear - "How did you feel when they eliminated the Con. Book Study?"

dropoffyourkeylee - "Why stop there?"
:laughing:
 

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Topic Summary
years ago when i was "in" i loved the book study.
it was my favorite meeting by far.
mainly because it was a small group.



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Katherine Jackson to Release MJ Book
by Mythbuster 6 years ago 1 Replies latest 6 years ago   jw friends
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Mythbuster
Mythbuster 6 years ago

Michael Jackson's mother, Katherine Jackson, is preparing to release a coffee table book dedicated to her late son ... this according to a new report.
According to Showbiz411.com, the book will be released next week and is called "Never Can Say Goodbye: The Katherine Jackson Archives." The book will reportedly consist of photos on one page and Katherine's thoughts and memories on another ... and will be sold through a website, www.jacksonsecretvault.com.
The site also says Katherine gave an interview with former MJ confidante Marc Schaffel in an effort to promote the book -- a curious decision because Schaffel was heavily involved in Michael's life at one point, but the two had a huge falling out which resulted in several lawsuits.
As we first reported, Katherine plans on taking Michael's kids -- Prince, Paris, and Blanket -- to Michael's hometown of Gary, IN on the anniversary of his death.
http://www.tmz.com/2010/06/19/michael-jackson-katherine-jackson-anniversary-death-book-publish/
 
steve2
steve2 6 years ago

What a shame this man died. If he were still alive, there'd be a better chance that he would slowly disappear as the years passed and the world could focus on better things that a man who truly loved himself to death.
 

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Washington Times today on the Jackson
by TheOldHippie 7 years ago 4 Replies latest 7 years ago   jw friends
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TheOldHippie
TheOldHippie 7 years ago


CITIZEN JOURNALISM: Jackson funeral a return to faith?
Family plans private L.A. ceremony
By Lyndia Grant SPECIAL TO THE WASHINGTON TIMES | Friday, August 28, 2009
More than two months after Michael Jackson died of cardiac arrest in his home in Los Angeles, the dichotomy of his personal faith and professional life lives on.
Mr. Jackson was supposed to be buried in Los Angeles on Saturday, which would have been his 51st birthday. Then, last week, the family announced that the service will be held Sept. 3.
Mr. Jackson will be buried where the stars of Hollywood are laid to rest, but his burial is expected to lack hoopla and splendor, which would follow the tenets of his mother's faith.
Katherine Jackson is a Jehovah's Witness, and she reared her nine children, who spent the better parts of their young lives and adulthood in the spotlight, in its Bible-rooted belief system, which shuns certain funeral customs - including wakes, the pouring of libations and making requests of the dead. Witnesses consider such customs unclean, unscriptured and empty deception.
There are an estimated 7.1 million Jehovah's Witness "publishers," or active members, around the world, including more than 1.1 million in the United States. Mrs. Jackson became a Witness in 1965, but her husband, Joseph, never became an adherent.
Several of the Jackson children, including Michael, pulled away from the church after they became adults. Yet as Jermaine Jackson told CNN's Larry King over the July 4th weekend, the family has always wanted separate private and public services for him.
"Well, my family felt that us being raised Jehovah's Witnesses, it was very important to have something private for the family," Jermaine said.
Much of the public image of Michael Jackson - the dancing and looking like a demon in the "Thriller" video, the pelvic thrusting, the lavish lifestyle, the search for fame and glory - is condemned by the doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses.
The dichotomy eventually led to Mr. Jackson's disassociation from the Watchtower Society in 1987.
On his own behalf, Mr. Jackson wrote in a December 2000 essay published on beliefnet.com that he learned to cherish the Sabbath and that he continued "pioneering," or missionary work, until his 1991 Dangerous Tour - albeit in disguise.
"I would don my disguise of fat suit, wig, beard, and glasses and head off to live in the land of everyday America," he said.
After church, the wunderkind-turned-uber-superstar said he would rehearse and rehearse to develop "the talents God gave me."
As for church itself, Mr. Jackson wrote, "Church was a treat in its own right. It was again a chance for me to be 'normal.' The church elders treated me the same as they treated everyone else. And they never became annoyed on the days that the back of the church filled with reporters who had discovered my whereabouts. They tried to welcome them in. After all, even reporters are the children of God."
Neither disassociation nor death has completely dissolved his Jehovah's Witness connection.
His three children - Prince Michael I, 12; Paris, 11; and Prince Michael II (aka Blanket), 7 - are in his mother's custody, and they have been seen attending Kingdom Hall meetings.
In his book "Michael Jackson: The Magic and the Madness," J. Randy Taraborrelli writes about Mrs. Jackson's religious convictions - convictions that forbade her to speak with her son about religion after he left the church and tenets that forbade Michael from speaking to sister La Toya, who was "disfellowshipped," or expelled, from the church.
"Katherine Jackson, a strong force in the lives of her children, passed on to them a deep and abiding respect for certain religious convictions," Mr. Taraborrelli writes. "She had been a Baptist and then a Lutheran but turned from both faiths for the same reason: she discovered that the ministers were having extramarital affairs. When Michael was five years old, Katherine became a Jehovah's Witness, converted by a door-to-door worker. She was baptized in 1963 in the swimming pool at Roosevelt High in Gary. From then on, she asked that the rest of the family get dressed in their best clothes every Sunday and walk with her to the Kingdom Hall, their place of worship."
Mr. Jackson received conflicting messages throughout his life. While the marvelous entertainer drew adoration from all corners of the globe, the Jehovah's Witnesses pounded home that the pursuit of fame and fortune was wrong and that modern music - Michael's music - was un-Christian.
The "Thriller" and "Billy Jean" videos became particular thorns with the Witnesses because Michael has a bed scene with a woman in "Billy Jean" and the "Thriller" video contains what easily could be construed as occult overtones. Sources in Mr. Jackson's congregation say he was rebuked for the "Billy Jean" video. In the beginning of the 1984 "Thriller" video, there is this disclaimer: "Due to my strong personal convictions, I wish to stress that this film in no way endorses a belief in the occult. - Michael Jackson."
In 1987, Mr. Jackson, under pressure, disassociated himself from the Watchtower Society. His decision to leave the church puzzled his mother and caused her great despair.
"Katherine wasn't sure she knew her own son any longer. However, there was no discussing the spiritual matter with him - literally," according to "The Magic and the Madness." "As it is strictly prohibited for a Witness to discuss matters of faith with ex-members, even if they are family, Katherine says that she has never asked Michael what happened, and she says that she never intends to ask such questions. 'I was not required to "shun" my son,' she claimed, referring to rumors of that nature. 'But we can't talk about matters of faith any longer, which is a shame.' "
The King of Pop, whose June 25 death has been ruled a homicide, will be buried in a mausoleum fit for a king and laid to rest in Forest Lawn Memorial Parks and Mortuaries among such Hollywood greats as Clark Gable and Carole Lombard, actress Ethel Waters and gospel singer Clara Ward. Mr. Jackson, who played Scarecrow in the Broadway smash hit "The Wiz," will be buried on the same grounds as L. Frank Baum, who wrote "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz" - the first totally American fantasy for children.
Lyndia Grant, a religious writer, is chief executive of Lyndia Grant Associates LLC.

 
jamiebowers
jamiebowers 7 years ago

"Katherine wasn't sure she knew her own son any longer. However, there was no discussing the spiritual matter with him - literally," according to "The Magic and the Madness." "As it is strictly prohibited for a Witness to discuss matters of faith with ex-members, even if they are family, Katherine says that she has never asked Michael what happened, and she says that she never intends to ask such questions. 'I was not required to "shun" my son,' she claimed, referring to rumors of that nature. 'But we can't talk about matters of faith any longer, which is a shame.' "
I'm sure that arrangement sounds just about perfect for most exjws and their relatives. Too bad that rule only applies to the rich and famous.
 
purplesofa
purplesofa 7 years ago

As for church itself, Mr. Jackson wrote, "Church was a treat in its own right. It was again a chance for me to be 'normal.' The church elders treated me the same as they treated everyone else. And they never became annoyed on the days that the back of the church filled with reporters who had discovered my whereabouts. They tried to welcome them in. After all, even reporters are the children of God."

Sad that MJ's sense of what is normal came from going to the KH and preaching door-to-door.
 
PSacramento
PSacramento 7 years ago

A very well balance article.
Its kind of sad that katherine left her former faiths because of adultry and married Joe Jackson, nuff said !
 
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 7 years ago

I would don my disguise of fat suit, wig, beard, and glasses and head off to live in the land of everyday America," he said.

That was Michaels chance to be normal in Watchtower World..

.....................OUTLAW


 

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Mother Katherine Opens Up about Family
by Dogpatch 7 years ago 5 Replies latest 7 years ago   jw friends
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Dogpatch
Dogpatch 7 years ago

Mother Katherine Opens Up about Family
from: http://extratv.warnerbros.com/2009/07/mother_katherine_opens_up_abou.php
Posted by ExtraTV Staff on July 14, 2009 2:12 PM
Katherine Jackson is caring for her three grandchildren now that their father Michael is gone. When he was alive, Katherine stood by MJ through his various tribulations. In interviews from "Good Morning America," the 79-year-old talked about her late son, her relationship with husband Joe and spirituality.
The interviews were shot before Michael's sudden death and even then, Katherine was hurt by the constant media coverage of her son. She told cameras, "Sometimes I listen to the television and they say ugly things about your children, it hurts." Jackson added, "People don't care how they hurt you. They should be careful what they say."
It's reported Katherine and Joe Jackson have been separated for 15 years. The Jackson matriarch admitted she lives in Los Angeles and Joe is in Las Vegas, but says "absence makes the heart grow fonder." Katherine recalled meeting Joe, saying, "I just had a feeling that he was going to be my husband. The first time I saw him I fell in love with him."
Jackson remains a devout Jehovah's Witness and says she does field service three days a week. The Jacksons raised their nine children as Jehovah's Witnesses as well, and Katherine confesses, "I wish they were a little more spiritual."
 
willyloman
willyloman 7 years ago

She may go out in FS three times a week but no JW should make the mistake of thinking she does the same kind of time as they do. She is quite a celebrity among dubs and treated with deference. Her FS experience is unique. She travels with a protective entourage. She doesn't do anything she doesn't want to do. She does not get the kind of disrespect many JW women receive when their children all (or nearly all) "leave the truth" or are DA'd or DF'd. Those other mothers are marginalized by the organization and most of the people in it.
Ms. Jackson may be a "sister' but she lives on another planet. This does not mean I don't empathize with her. Losing a child is a difficult burden.
 
TresHappy
TresHappy 7 years ago

I heard when MJ came to the KH he also had a large entourage and security. I think the only security I have ever seen at the KH was the teenagers directing traffic at the so-called Memorial. I feel bad for Katherine and I hope that Janet would adopt her niece and nephews.
 
Big Tex
Big Tex 7 years ago

She does not get the kind of disrespect many JW women receive when their children all (or nearly all) "leave the truth" or are DA'd or DF'd.
Or whose husbands are "not in The Truth".
Very good point.
 
purplesofa
purplesofa 7 years ago

What she does not tell is that she cannot divorce Joe without scriptual grounds, so they are seperated.
That's assuming Joe is being faithful, he was not in the earlier years of their marriage.

purps
 
AudeSapere
AudeSapere 7 years ago

I heard when MJ came to the KH he also had a large entourage and security.

Back in the early and mid-80's, MJ was in the same congregation as my parents. At that time (and up to his DA announcement), he did not have entourage. There *may* have been one person with him a few times but usually I saw him alone. A few elders (mostly Flem Astrup and Dick Lucas) would chat with him but not a large scene or excessive security.
This may have changed in very recent years (last 8 - 10) when I understand he attended once in a while.
-Aude.
 

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