Jehovah's-Witness . com forum discussions

Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Does Roman Catholicism Teach The "Truth"?
/  





 

Does Roman Catholicism Teach The "Truth"?
by minimus 7 years ago 180 Replies latest 7 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 7
 …
 9
 10
 »
 5
10
20
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

Out of all mainstream religions, Roman Catholicism seems to be the most cultic to me, even more so than Jehovah's Witnesses in certain ways.
The belief in transubstantiation , I think that's how it's spelled, is weird! The attire of the clergy is satanic looking. The view of papal authority is not that much different than a JW's view of "The Slave".
 
sspo
sspo 7 years ago

If the bible is just another " book " and not inspired then all religions are screwed up.
Some are definetely more dangerous than others.
 
jws
jws 7 years ago

I went to a Catholic funeral once. The priest started waving some smoking pot on a chain over the coffin. It looked like some primitive ritual.
It always seemed like the JWs took particular offense to Catholics. When in reality, if it weren't for Catholicism, Christianity may have died out in the first few hundred years after Christ.
The Catholic Church basically chose what went into the New Testament, according to which writings they thought went along with their beliefs. So if the New Testament is "the truth", and the New Testament is a collection of cherry-picked writings that matched Catholic beliefs, then the Catholics must have "the truth". Or at least they did at some point in the past.
Of course, I don't believe they do/did. But if you're going to accept the New Testament, you've got to tip your hats to Catholicism.
 
Amazing
Amazing 7 years ago

Minimus,
The poster JWs made a good post from a non-Catholic perspective. I can see how the 'smoke waving' at a funeral might come across a little strange to someone with JW roots. And his comments about the Bible are mostly fair, except that the Catholic Church did not 'cherry pick' because they did not need to do so. Their liturgy, tradition, and teaching were well established for 400 years after Christ, before the Pope asked St. Jerome to compile the Apostolic letters, that eventually because the Bible. The 'Bible' as we know it was not declared inspired until the 8th century, after centuries of debate by scholars.
To answer your question ... yes, the Catholic Church and Orthodox teach the truth. They both have deep traditional roots in the primitive Catholic Church, prior to the Great Schism in 1054. Do they make mistakes, yes, but not on matters of faith and morals. They never change those long held teachings. But their ritual and liturgy, while still resembling the early Church, is something that changes from time to time ... but of itself, such practices are not what Catholics would call 'truth.' Rather, what Catholics see as 'truth' is found in what Jesus said of himself, "[He] is the Way, the Truth, and the Life." This is what I believe as a Roman Catholic.
 
drwtsn32
drwtsn32 7 years ago

The Catholics are big on rituals, that's for sure. I went to mass with my wife a few times out of curiosity.
As far as them having the "truth"? That's entirely subjective. Every Christian religion thinks they are following the bible the way they should, and accuse the other sects as being "corrupt."
If someone wants to be religious, they should find one that works for them. (Preferrably not a high control group like the JW's.)
IMO, none of them are true. Science is the pursuit of truth. :smile:
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Minimus, I'm not feeling well today or I'd start tackling your questions. However, I want to ask you some questions:
What do you know about Catholicism and from where do you know it?
What is your understanding of transsubstantiation?
What is Satanic looking about clerical attire?
Specifically, what is it about papal authority that you think is "Slave-like?"
St. Ann
Tiber Swim Team 2003
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Drwtsn, science is your religion.
Minimus, if you really want to delve into some of your questions about Catholicism, here is a good place to start. Click on "articles" and read away:
http://www.catholicxjw.com
Obviously, I believe the Catholic Church has the truth or I wouldn't be Roman Catholic. It's a whole different ball game from the Dubs.
St. Ann
 
Amazing
Amazing 7 years ago

drwtson32:
As far as them having the "truth"? That's entirely subjective. Every Christian religion thinks they are following the bible the way they should, and accuse the other sects as being "corrupt."
Your comments are reasonable, except that the mainline Churches do not accuse all others as being "corrupt." The Catholic Church, for example, teaches that the Christian faith and truth are found among the many non-Catholic Churches. A few cult-like groups, like the JWs, Adventists, and others make such accusations. Most Churches are kind and reasonable. Catholics do not place as much emphasis on the Bible as they do history and tradition ... that is why they preserved the rituals they have (as do the Orthodox) for the last 2,000 years.
St Ann:
I did not realize you are Catholic ... well we have something in common. Were you a Catholic before being a JW, or is this something you found after leaving the JWs? I was raised Roman Catholic, and finally returned to the Church about 4 years ago.
 
sammielee24
sammielee24 7 years ago

Truth about what?
Everyone has a stake in the game and Catholics are no different. The power of the Catholic church goes back hundreds of years and is closely aligned with politics and wealth. If you are looking for the truth of existence and meaning in the book, then whatever your own interpretation is, will be what you align yourself with. I believe the truth of what you need is the truth that you will find - no matter where you look.
I personally don't have a beef with Catholicism..I find the WTS much more restrictive and much less caring. sammieswife.
 
gubberningbody
gubberningbody 7 years ago

I was a Catholic, went to parochial school, was an altar boy... and in my view the JW's today mirror the Catholic church during the time of the Spanish Inquistition (without images, the trinity, the garb, and the rites). Today the Catholic church is more tolerant and less oppressive than JW's. I would never return, however I've found more pluralistic openmindedness among Catholics than I ever have among any protestant denomination (except the Unitarians), and perhaps the Methodists and Quakers.
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

I've read literature against Catholicism and I agree that some of their beliefs are non biblical and/or opposed to the Bible.
My understanding of transsubstantiation is that Catholics view it as the actual drinking and eating of Christ.
Priests and nuns look "spooky" to me. The Pope looks weird to me too, especially the present one.
Just like the Pope, "The Slave" is always right, even when both are obviously not.
 
Finally-Free
Finally-Free 7 years ago

I was raised as a Catholic so I don't find anything odd about it. All things considered, I prefer it to the JWs which seems more like an Amway meeting.
W
 
Chalam
Chalam 7 years ago

Hi,
My understanding is that the Catholics believe thus
◦The Trinity i.e. three persons in on God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit
◦One must be born again to be saved
◦Hell exists
◦Jesus died so we don't have to go there
◦Believe that Jesus was raised from the dead in a physical body, proclaim Him as Lord in word and deed and you will be saved
◦Heaven exists and is an awesome place
On the core beliefs, I agree. They have a few oddities but who has perfect theology?
Some Catholics exercise the gifts of the Spirit which is awesome. A friend from my church was in a Catholic church like that.
That said, I have been in one or two Catholic churches with my "practicing" Catholic in-laws and none of them are born again, they are just following the "traditions of men" :frowning:
All the best,
Stephen
 
Amazing
Amazing 7 years ago

Minimus,
I've read literature against Catholicism and I agree that some of their beliefs are non biblical and/or opposed to the Bible.
What beliefs of the Catholic Church 'oppose' the Bible. Given that the Bible (NT) was given to us by the Church?
My understanding of transsubstantiation is that Catholics view it as the actual drinking and eating of Christ.
It becomes to us the body and blood of Christ. It is a Divine mystery ... and has been a Christian belief since the first Christians. Jesus said you must eat my flesh and drink my blood ... and he did not use symbolic language ... symbolism is a convenient Watchtower legalistic escape clause to resist the truth of Jesus teaching. The Jews who heard this walked away from Jesus, thinking he was speaking literally ... since Judaism relies greatly on symbolism and allegory, Jesus would have had to make it clear he was speaking literally in order to offend the Jews.
Priests and nuns look "spooky" to me. The Pope looks weird to me too, especially the present one.
Catholic and Orthodox tradition has preserved even the very dress and style from early Rom and Greece, when St. Peter and Paul founded the Roman Church, and St. Andrew counded the Church in what is now Constantinople. Both halves of the Church have acted to preserve everything for future Christian generations. Some of the WT drama clothing is taken from the same era ... and when I was at District Conventions, I would hearken back to Orthodoxy because of the costumes the JWs used were so strikingly. It is not meant to be "spooky" but to retain everything possible and change nothing, as they felt an obligation to pass on the faith in every aspect, and totally preserved.
Just like the Pope, "The Slave" is always right, even when both are obviously not.
The Pope makes mistakes and is not always right - and no self-respecting Catholic would ever say otherwise ... he is not 'infallible' as this is an abused notion by non-Catholics. The Pope can only be 'infallible' on matters of faith and morals that the Church has always taught, or was part of tradition. The Pope has only invoked 'infallibility' on two teachings in the history of the Church ... both dealing with the Blessed Virgin Mary. There is no comparison to the wicked GB overlords and the good Pope who does not rule, but merely exhorts.
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Amazing, I was a born-in JW. I left the Dubs in my 20's and wandered aimlessly for a few years through secularism/atheism. Eventually, I decided to check out religion and finally joined the Episcopal Church. I learned a lot there and my questions grew. I met my husband and we began attending the Lutheran Church together, although my membership remained in the Episcopal Church. We married in the Lutheran Church. My Lutheran pastor helped me learn a whole lot more about Christianity and I became obsessed with finding the Church that Jesus started. I grew tired of denominationalism. I finally discovered that the Church Jesus left behind is the Catholic Church so I went through RCIA six years ago and here I am.
Personally, I love it. It's nothing like I thought it would be. Almost everything I thought the Church taught was wrong. And it's actually very easy and liberating for me, after being a Dub. Life is much, much more fulfilling and rewarding as a Catholic than as a Dub. At least for me it is.
My husband came into the Church two years after I did. He was never a Dub.
My "screen name," StAnn, is actually the name of my parish. My real name is Serena.
Chalam, my priest is one of those charismatic Catholic priests. We also have a charismatic prayer group that meets weekly for intercessory prayer.
St. Ann
 
Cellist
Cellist 7 years ago



These were given to me by a friend who I've known most of my life. He is a practicing Catholic
and has been all his life. These are recent instructions to the faithful. I have nothing to add.
They speak for themselves.

Cellist
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Amazing, did you go through RCIA or just go to confession to return to the Church?
St. Ann
 
chickpea
chickpea 7 years ago

born in the RCC
left at 18
never felt anything close
to the mind control of the b0rg....
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Cellist, thank you for posting those. They are very accurate and clear.
As Catholics, we believe that the Lord has all kinds of things that he wants to give us and that, to get everything he wants to give, we have to be in the Catholic Church. The other Christian denominations do have good in them and Jesus is present in them, but they do not have all of the gifts from God. I've been told that my Lutheran Church, for instance, offered about 80% of it. If you want it all, you have to be Catholic. However, we do respect people of other denominations but we don't take communion with them.
When I first converted to Catholicism, my husband was still Lutheran. We attended my Catholic parish on Saturday evening for Mass and then we attended his Lutheran parish on Sunday morning and on Wednesday evenings. We were a dual-service couple. There were a lot of dual-service couples, something you would never see in the Dubs or in a Fundamentalist marriage.
In the Lutheran church, there were only two sacraments, baptism and the eucharist. In Catholicism, there are seven sacraments.
I actually was quite surprised when my husband told me he was going to convert to Catholicism. It has been good for us, though.
BTW, after communion, my favorite sacrament is confession. It's actually quite refreshing. Even if you KNOW that God has forgiven your sins, it is still reassuring to hear the priest who is standing in the place of Jesus say, "I absolve you from your sins." Sometimes you just have to hear the words.
St. Ann
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Minimus, if you're actually expressing curiosity about Catholicism, PM me. I'd be happy to tell you anything you want to know.
As it is, I'm feeling poorly and I'm going to bed.
Goodnight, all.
I love you people.
St. Ann
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 7
 …
 9
 10
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
Cota Samuel
My experience with religion
by Cota Samuel 4 months ago
Terry
A POP QUIZ about the origin of "NEW LIGHT"
by Terry a month ago
Terry
ARE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES SUSPICIOUS, CYNICAL and WRONG? IF SO, WHY?
by Terry 9 days ago
Greybeard
The KEY WORD in Isaiah 44:25-26 is "Predictions" and the apostles NEVER made any predictions setting dates.
by Greybeard 3 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo a month ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/174436/does-roman-catholicism-teach-truth






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Does Roman Catholicism Teach The "Truth"?
/  





 

Does Roman Catholicism Teach The "Truth"?
by minimus 7 years ago 180 Replies latest 7 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 7
 …
 9
 10
 »
 5
10
20
JimmyPage
JimmyPage 7 years ago

"God has no religion." -Mahatma Gandhi
 
truthseeker
truthseeker 7 years ago

The Catholic Church is the oldest Christian religion out there. That gives it a certain amount of clout whether you like the traditions that go with it or not.
It has endured for 2,000 years and it's teachings have remained generally the same.
 
Chalam
Chalam 7 years ago

Chalam, my priest is one of those charismatic Catholic priests. We also have a charismatic prayer group that meets weekly for intercessory prayer.
That is cool! Gifts and fruit of Jesus' Spirit wins over praying to Mary and "saints" all day long :smile:
See you in glory :smile:
All the best,
Stephen
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Well, Chalam, my priest is devoted to Mary and I ask for the intercession of the Saints, too. We've got it all, the gifts of the holy spirit AND the communion of saints. Lucky us!
St. Ann
 
reniaa
reniaa 7 years ago

No!
 
BurnTheShips
BurnTheShips 7 years ago

I swam the Tiber 2009! I received baptism not even 2 weeks ago.
I love my new life in Christ and my new home in the Church.
BTS
 
WTWizard
WTWizard 7 years ago

No, the Catholics do not teach the truth. Fact is, they can be no more truthful than what they chose to put in the Bible itself--and the Bible itself lies. Therefore, if they teach what is in the Unholy Bible, they are not teaching the truth.
I must, however, say that it is far less damaging to be a Catholic than one of Jehovah's Witlesses. First, when is the last time you have seen children getting dragged out all the time going door to door promoting the Catholic church? I have never seen that. Nor are they singled out because they cannot do holidays or birthdays, they are not so strict on music as the witlesses are, and they occasionally have festivals instead of regular churches (plus, if you miss a church because you are on a vacation, they are not going to hound you endlessly).
 
Room 215
Room 215 7 years ago

I must admit that I find the mumbo-jumbo, incense waving, bishops mitres and vestments, etc. offputting; but the Church to my mind has many redeeming qualities, especially in the realms of charity, hospitals, schools, etc.
 
middleman
middleman 7 years ago

The RCC is as much a sham as the WBTS is. One poster on here said "Catholics do not place as much emphasis on the Bible as they do history and tradition ... that is why they preserved the rituals they have (as do the Orthodox) for the last 2,000 years". That's sad but actually true, much of my family are Catholic as well as my girlfriend's family. I see this mentality as the norm. In reality the RCC tradition is similar to the various doctrines of the WBTS, in the sense that many teachings are not verifable by the Bible, but by a council (from the clergy) or publication. As long as "we say so" who cares if it's in the Bible or not, so the thought goes for many. With tradition it's voted what's of God and hey we have a new truth for evermore...where do we stop...ya don't nor do they. To oppose the "mother" would be to oppose God, don't dare challenge her even if you have "proof" of lies/false teachings. It's really no surprise that Catholics often convert to the WBTS and visa versa...change a few doctrines/names, but the structure is virtually the same.

That's my 2 pennies worth...
 
drwtsn32
drwtsn32 7 years ago

Your comments are reasonable, except that the mainline Churches do not accuse all others as being "corrupt."
I am sorry for not speaking clearly, but I didn't intend to claim this was an official position of the RCC. But you can't get around the fact that each sect thinks they have the complete truth, and other sects/religions don't quite have it right. Don't you agree?
I agree that some Christian sects believe that others outside their own sect will be saved; a vast difference from fundies to be sure.
My personal experience is that some Catholics view Protestants in a very negative light. Perhaps that's only the Irish Catholics. :wink: But seriously, how can Catholics not view Lutherans (for example) with at least some level of disapproval? They did break away from the Catholic church, afterall, because they perceived it as being at least somewhat corrupt. (And again, I'm sure not all Catholics view Lutherans like that. There are probably many that don't even think about it and it isn't an issue to them.)
My point in saying this is not to bash the Catholic church. I actually admire it in some ways as a religion. Unlike the fundies, the RCC isn't as afraid of science (including Evolution), although it may take them a little while to come around (ie, Galileo).
 
drwtsn32
drwtsn32 7 years ago

Drwtsn, science is your religion.
My religion is pastafarianism.
 
Amazing
Amazing 7 years ago

St. Ann,
When I returned, I simply went to what they now call "Reconciliation" (Confession). I was baptized as a baby, and grew up in Catholic school, so RCIA was not necessary. Nothing had really changed since my last 'confession' decades earlier. The priest had been a priest since I was born ... he was utterly amazing and kind. He was very interested in my history and what brought me back to the Church.
The road back to Rome started with refreshing myself on early Christian history, reading all of the early Fathers like St. Ignatius of Antioch, up through St. Polycarp and St. Irenaus. I then studied the Orthodox, and discovered so much more, and it helped me understand Roman Catholicism much better ... though I had been taught and 'raised' by Dominicans (known for being the teaching Wing of the Church along with the Franciscans). We can PM on the Orthodox if you are ever interested. But the main thing is that I learned where the other Holy Sees are, and which Apostles started them, and how they all function the same as Rome ... but Rome was simply accepted all that time as the senior Church, the older brother, the First among Equals. I spent about two years in such a study ... oddly enough, it all began with wanting to know more about the Holy Spirit.
One day, Tom Cabeen (now a Catholic) told me he could see my Catholic roots showing in my writings and conversation, even though I was far from Rome. I was shocked, as I could not see how my style could expose my basic training. We talked as I completed my Holy Spirit project ... and before it was over, I talked to my local parish priest ... I had attended the Orthodox a few times, but could not take communion. So, right after my BRCI presentation, I went to Reconciliation, and then to Mass and received communion. It was awesome to be back where I started ... and I was very emotional about it during confession, which surprised me. Tom Cabeen was baptized later on that summer. He was interviewed on EWTN last year about this time. You can go back into the EWTN archives and get the interview.
I enjoyed reading your history as to how you got into the Church ... and I appreciate you being in the faith.
Yours in Christ, Pax Vobiscum
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

Cellist, I appreciate your post. The examination of conscience seems familiar. Masturbation, porn, sterilization, abortion, horoscopes, New Age, doubting any teaching, premarital sex, grudges, partial drunkeness, etc......If you're guilty, you must go to the elders, I mean priests.
The whole article is clear. Honestly, I think they're no better than the JWs except Catholics don't burn you to the stake any longer. And the fact that the RCC has KNOWN about pedo priests for so many years and did nothing to protect the children is an abomination. How many Catholics have confessed to sooooo many priests while the men of God were worse sinners? They disgust me and the fact is it wasn't just a mistake that slipped through the cracks.


 
mouthy
mouthy 7 years ago

Minimus, I'm not feeling well today
ST ANNE!!!If you want to go to St Josephs Oratary( My Mother in law a Catholic
used to pray on every step of the Shrine once a month)-hundreds of steps) You can pick up a bottle of HOLY WATER & rub it were ever your not feeling well. It only costs $25.00
I asked the priest how it became Holy for sale.???? He said it was tap water but it had been blessed.
I was Married in the faith.Because the Catholic Church said I would NOT be married in THEIR eyes
( as my hubby was Catholic) If I didnt, & because I was Pregnant I was FORCED to do so.
I was aalso told I had to sign a paper to say all my kids would be Catholic....
If that isnt " twisting your arm up your back" to MAKE you obey..what is???/TRADITION
.. Sorry MY Jesus said HIS FLOCK
comes WILLINGly!!!!!
Sorry Amazing I love ya! But you know me I am direct....
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

Mouthy, you're gonna make her keel over.
 
mouthy
mouthy 7 years ago

No that was NOT my intention...But I know what the Catholic Church done to me & mine
My Husband used to go to the Church give them 3 bucks
& get a three hundred $$ receipt for Income TAX.. Honesty??? ( we fought over that )
Last night on "Agenda" I watched a documentary on the Catholic Church.
Just as bad as the WT....
 
Amazing
Amazing 7 years ago

Mouthy, you need not apologize for being direct ... I will be just as direct, with a touch of sardonic humor ... hope you can take what you dish out ... as for Holy Water, it is wrong to sell it, and I have not seen it being sold in decades ... so, as a Catholic, I would not buy such stuff anyway. I would go inside the Church where it is free. But, while I agree with your objection ... it is only a small part of the Catholic faith. Why there is much worst stuff than that ... hell, let's look at the Inquisition for God's sake! Come on, if your going to gripe about Catholicism, let's go all the way back to St. Peter. He was the rascal who even denied Jesus Christ, lying about knowing him, and cursing against the allegation that he walked with Jesus. Judas betrayed Christ. And the Apostles as a group lost faith in a little storm on the Sea. What a bunch of terrible sinners!
In fact, let's look at all the Christians in history ... why looking at these people, whether Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, or otherwise, they are all a bunch of thieving, lying, immoral hypocrites! Let's just condemn the whole damn Christian faith as being evil because of all these sinners ... and be done with it! No, you say, your Jesus invites all who are willing? ... well so does my Jesus ... my Jesus died for all these sinners, including Roman Catholics ... and you know what else? My Jesus even died for those evil Jehovah's Witnesses! Why how dare he do such a thing ... sinners ... who needs them anyway! I can find any pastor or member of any Church, whether denominational or independent, whether pastors or just members, and show you murders, pedophiles, thieves, adulterers, drug abusers, and so on! So a Priest was not nice to you ... hell some Priests were not nice to me, and I have some really juicy stories ... so what! Uhmmm. There, how is that for being direct!
Judge, judge, judge, condemn, condemn, condemn ... yet Jesus said not to judge, that you (we) not be judged, for the measuring rod you (we) measure out to others, will be used to measure you (us)! I do not sit here and self-righteously pick apart anyone's faith, other than to discuss some of the issues about JWs, as that is the purpose of this forum ... and I have slowed down even in that department ... its time to realize that the problem is not with the Church, or the Christian faith ... it is about helping people ... and one can find no greater love than in many Churches where Christians of all stripes provide healing and love ... that is what I look for ... not the sins, but the good!
Of course you will find plenty wrong with Catholicism ... as you will with any Church group if you take an honest look! What else is new?
Minimus: Comparisons of the Watchtower to the Catholic Church are not credible and absurd. Reconciliation and confession to a Priest has nothing in common with JWs being in front of a Judicial Committee. Just as excommunication has nothing to do with disfellowshipping ... there is nothing similar about them. I don't care if you bash the Catholic Church ... have at it ... but at least do so with some level of knowledge and intellectual honesty ... study what you are talking about first so that you at least know what you are saying.
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

Here we go again with intellectual honesty. Priests and elders ARE very similar. Don't you be "absurd".
I think you changed the subject a bit with Mouthy's argument. (see your earlier thread about that).
"Holy water" is still being sold. You should know that!
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

Check discountcatholicstore.com.....Since you're supposed to know about what the Catholics promote, this might be a good thing to invest in.
 
Finally-Free
Finally-Free 7 years ago

"Holy water" is still being sold. You should know that!
I'm not sure about that. The last church I went to had it freely available in the foyer. People just had to bring their own containers.
W
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 7
 …
 9
 10
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
out of all mainstream religions, roman catholicism seems to be the most cultic to me, even more so than jehovah's witnesses in certain ways.. the belief in transubstantiation , i think that's how it's spelled, is weird!
the attire of the clergy is satanic looking.
the view of papal authority is not that much different than a jw's view of "the slave".. .



Related Topics
Cota Samuel
My experience with religion
by Cota Samuel 4 months ago
Terry
A POP QUIZ about the origin of "NEW LIGHT"
by Terry a month ago
Terry
ARE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES SUSPICIOUS, CYNICAL and WRONG? IF SO, WHY?
by Terry 9 days ago
Greybeard
The KEY WORD in Isaiah 44:25-26 is "Predictions" and the apostles NEVER made any predictions setting dates.
by Greybeard 3 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo a month ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/174436/does-roman-catholicism-teach-truth?page=2&size=20







Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Does Roman Catholicism Teach The "Truth"?
/  





 

Does Roman Catholicism Teach The "Truth"?
by minimus 7 years ago 180 Replies latest 7 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 7
 …
 9
 10
 »
 5
10
20
cluless
cluless 7 years ago

I have many Catholic friends who attend church every sunday.
I go to there after service to play ping-pong.
My Catholic friends have unconditional love for there congrgation and for me who has never attended a church service.( And this love is not on me converting)
Cluless
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

I'm not saying people who are Catholics are vile horrible people. I think the religion clearly is not "The Truth".
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Minimus, you don't have to believe Catholicism is true. You're free to think for yourself now.
Re: holy water, the holy water for sale on the internet is from Lourdes and other places where it is believed that the water has miraculous healing properties. None of the holy water for sale on discountcatholicstore.com is run of the mill holy water. As a matter of fact, the descriptions of the bottles of holy water say "You can refill it with Holy Water blessed by your local priest."
I have a rosary with a little bit of Lourdes holy water encased in it.
Catholic Churches have containers full of holy water and most of us take our own containers to church and fill them ourselves. The Holy Water at church is merely tap water that has been blessed by the priest, not miraculous water from one of the shrines.
St. Ann
 
donny
donny 7 years ago

I don't know of any religion that can be called "the truth". When people use the word "truth" in this manner, it renders the word null and void since the meaning becomes sunjective to whomever is interpreting it. Even the JW's, who use this word more than most, cannot give a good answer to the question "what is truth?". You ask 20 people and will get 20 answers.
Don
 
cluless
cluless 7 years ago

Minimus
"The Truth"?
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

Sure....certain believers say they have "The Truth''. some RCCs believe that.
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Minimus, it is clear to you that the RCC is not true but others disagree with you. It is clear to me that the RCC is the church founded by Jesus. I have divine faith in Jesus.
Amazing, you said that you came back into the Church just by going to confession/reconciliation? Did your priest tell you that you had to sit in the pews every Sunday for a year with your mouth shut while those around you shunned you to PROVE to the priest that you were truly repentant? Or did he welcome you back with open arms, like the father of the Prodigal son?
St. Ann
 
mouthy
mouthy 7 years ago

I think the religion clearly is not "The Truth
"I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH & THE LIFE" <<<<JUSUS!
 NO religion has all Truth but Christ does. IN MY OPINION>
Amazing. You can follow what religion you want. But as for ME!!!!
I will follow the Lord.Not by Tradition .But by love!!!
Must admit though my love weakens,when folks like Catholics
Cover over transgressions.As was CLEARLY revealed on "AGENDA" last night
I should know I was involved with HUNDREDS of Catholics( my hubbys family
Lovely folks but followers of the Catholic RULES!!!!!
So you were encouraged by Tom... I love Tom also BUT what was it said?
1st Corth 3:5-9
"What then is Apollos( TOM) what is Paul ( Amazing)
Ministers through whom you became believers( NOT OF A CHURCH my adding)
Even as the LORD granted each one, I planted,Apollos watered but GOD
who makes it grow,so that he that plants & he that waters are one.
but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor
FOR WE ARE GODS FELLOW WORKERS,YOU PEOPLE ARE GODS field UNDER cultivation
Gods building."
 
cluless
cluless 7 years ago

The "truth "is this board exits because of the commitment humour and dedication of the posters-
Any organisation that allows that sort of communication is okay with me.
Rock -On the congregation of the Catholic Church I attend as a non_church member after servive ping-pong player-
Cluless.
 
mouthy
mouthy 7 years ago

So then... I dont have to go to a building...
I am a brick,IN this building ,as I think you are.
But lets not look to the churches & the men in them
as holy ,,,, the ones like us who lie, cheat, steal, etc. Lets look to the REAL Truth
Jesus ,We dont have to listen to men.
 
Amazing
Amazing 7 years ago

Minimus:
I'm not saying people who are Catholics are vile horrible people. I think the religion clearly is not "The Truth".
I know that you are not directly condemning Catholics ... but as for truth, one needs to define what they mean by 'Truth.' To a Catholic, Jesus is the way, the Truth, and the life. To a JW, it is all about the organization ... many ex-JWs confuse Catholicism with having faith in an organization as the truth ... whereas Catholics have Jesus as the Truth, and also have the Church as a divine object as Jesus promised. The people ... that is another matter.
St.Ann: Sit in the Pew, and kneel on the kneeler! for 6 hours dressed in sack cloth as I whipped my back with a chain until I was bloody. Seriously, he watched me go into unintended tears ... and he spent the time consoling me and welcoming me home ... and immediately, without hesitation, gave me absolution ... and no Bible counsel ... only healing. It was Saturday, but he encouraged me to stay for the 4:30 Mass and take communion right away ... yep ... a much different environment than the JWs that act like they do a person a favor ... the Priest actually cares about the individual.
 
mouthy
mouthy 7 years ago



 
cluless
cluless 7 years ago

Mouthy
The biggest brick in the wall of any building is the word "Truth" Or "Real Truth"
But isnt the internet the biggest building.
Arnt we the posters on this site the religouse leaders of todsay?
Cluless.
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Speaking of kneelers....I got stuck Sunday. I'm in the choir and was squeezed in between two other sopranos. When it was time to stand up, I couldn't. I just started laughing (quietly) and tried to hide behind some Easter Lilies that were still up there by the ambo. My knees are getting old.
Amazing, you are funny! And, Amazing, you are right. For me and for the other Catholics I know, it's all about Jesus being the Way, the Truth, and the Life. If we went to church because of the example of individual Christians, we'd probably never darken the doors.
Fortunately for me, Jesus allows sinners into his Church. I've yet to meet any Christian who isn't a sinner.
Regarding tradition, which some have mentioned in this thread, most people don't think about how Jesus taught: he taught orally. When he gave the great commission for his disciples to preach the gospel to all of the Earth, he didn't give them a WT, Awake, or Bible to carry around with them. He taught them orally and they taught orally. Jesus didn't leave behind one written word. Thus, he gives credence to oral tradition being an acceptable method of teaching and passing down the truths of the faith. Eventually, these stories and traditions began to be written down. We as Catholics do not reject these teachings, or Holy Traditions, just because they are not in the canon of scripture. If it was good enough for Jesus, it is good enough for the Catholic Church. Unfortunately, many non-Catholic Christians today reject the way Jesus and the Early Christians taught and limit themselves to the Bible only. It's sad because they really miss out on a lot.
Did you know there are letters that were written to Mary after Jesus' death, after she had gone off to Ephesus with John? And there is at least one letter that she wrote in response? And that Mary Magdalen went with her? These things aren't in the Bible but they make fascinating reading, if you want to know what Jesus' followers did in the years after his death.
St. Ann
 
Amazing
Amazing 7 years ago

Mouthy ...
St. Ann ... Excellent post.
Regarding tradition, which some have mentioned in this thread, most people don't think about how Jesus taught: he taught orally. When he gave the great commission for his disciples to preach the gospel to all of the Earth, he didn't give them a WT, Awake, or Bible to carry around with them. He taught them orally and they taught orally. Jesus didn't leave behind one written word. Thus, he gives credence to oral tradition being an acceptable method of teaching and passing down the truths of the faith. Eventually, these stories and traditions began to be written down. We as Catholics do not reject these teachings, or Holy Traditions, just because they are not in the canon of scripture. If it was good enough for Jesus, it is good enough for the Catholic Church. Unfortunately, many non-Catholic Christians today reject the way Jesus and the Early Christians taught and limit themselves to the Bible only. It's sad because they really miss out on a lot.
The Apostles also spoke of this tradition as valid ... while they condemned the wrong traditions of the Jews, they extolled the traditions they handed down to Christians:
2 Thessalonians 3:6 "And we charge you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother walking disorderly, and not according to the tradition which they have received of us."
Yes, tradition can be, and is valid, if from the right source ... and your paragraph above hits the nail on the head.! - Thanks!
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

You know, I'm surprised that we haven't heard more from Reniaa on this thread. Just the word "no" is a big disappointment to me.
Okay, Reniaa, in case you're reading this thread, I've learned that everything the JWs taught me about the Catholic Church was a lie. Lie, lie, lie.
What do you have to say to that?
Come out and play, Reniaa!
St. Ann
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Amazing, excellent post. We'll have to start a mutual admiration society!
People don't realize that to reject tradition is to reject Jesus.
St. Ann
 
rebel8
rebel8 7 years ago

I consider myself an ethnic Catholic. :grinning:
The RC churches around here are definitely not the most cultic of the religions I'm personally familiar with. They are the least totalitarian and controlling, and make a point to say theirs is not the exclusive ticket to Heaven.
You can do anything you want and there are no sanctions on your membership status. Hell, I was confirmed as an adult with my atheism out in the open. They are very liberal.
That is in stark contrast to the fundamentalist types around here. As a kid we were in one of those groups right before we joined the borg. They are extremely controlling.
Rituals don't make something a cult: http://www.factnet.org/rancho5.htm
The rituals in the ancient RC church were put in place (in many cases) because of lack of microphones and illiteracy. They could not shout loud enough for the masses to hear, so they did things that would be easily visible from a far distance (colored smoke during Pope elections, incense, bells, etc.) Now it's just a tradition like toasting or singing Xmas carols.



Mouthy, I hope I'm misinterpreting your post. It sounds like you are saying practicing the RC religion is vomit-worthy. I hope you're not saying that while at the same time expecting others to respect your religious practice.
I find all religion distasteful to varying degrees, but I would never vomit on yours.
 
Chalam
Chalam 7 years ago

Well, Chalam, my priest is devoted to Mary and I ask for the intercession of the Saints, too. We've got it all, the gifts of the holy spirit AND the communion of saints. Lucky us!
St. Ann
Hi,
Is is one thing to intercede for the saint and another thing to pray to them. They can't do jack, neither can Mary. Only Jesus can sort it, pray to Him.

John 15:5 (New International Version)

5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

John 14:14 (New International Version)
14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
All the best,
Stephen
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Chalam, what we mean when we talk about "intecession" of the saints is that we believe that life continues after death and that the saints are in heaven with Jesus. We ask them to pray for us to Jesus, adding their prayers to ours. It's no different than asking someone here on Earth to pray for us when we need it. It's just that we believe that the family of Christians includes those who have died as well as those who are alive now. The ones who have died and gone to heaven are in Jesus' presence, so we ask them to intercede for us, since they're right there. And since Mary is Jesus' mother, we figure that he'll listen to her most quickly of all! So we ask Mary to pray for us and to ask Jesus to assist us, along with our own prayers.
It really isn't any different than someone coming onto this board, which is peopled with folks most of us haven't met, telling them of a particular problem and asking them to pray for us. We don't know them personally, have never seen them, but know that the ones who will pray on our behalf are people of faith. We're trying to storm the citadel with prayers, so to speak. Catholics just don't want to exclude Christians who have died and gone on to their reward in heaven.
St. Ann
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 7
 …
 9
 10
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
out of all mainstream religions, roman catholicism seems to be the most cultic to me, even more so than jehovah's witnesses in certain ways.. the belief in transubstantiation , i think that's how it's spelled, is weird!
the attire of the clergy is satanic looking.
the view of papal authority is not that much different than a jw's view of "the slave".. .



Related Topics
Cota Samuel
My experience with religion
by Cota Samuel 4 months ago
Terry
A POP QUIZ about the origin of "NEW LIGHT"
by Terry a month ago
Terry
ARE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES SUSPICIOUS, CYNICAL and WRONG? IF SO, WHY?
by Terry 9 days ago
Greybeard
The KEY WORD in Isaiah 44:25-26 is "Predictions" and the apostles NEVER made any predictions setting dates.
by Greybeard 3 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo a month ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/174436/does-roman-catholicism-teach-truth?page=3&size=20






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Does Roman Catholicism Teach The "Truth"?
/  





 

Does Roman Catholicism Teach The "Truth"?
by minimus 7 years ago 180 Replies latest 7 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 7
 …
 9
 10
 »
 5
10
20
Dagney
Dagney 7 years ago

Okay, I am sincerely enjoying this thread.
I was raised JW and absolutely scared to death of anything Catholic. Wouldn't even step inside a historical old California mission for fear I'd get the struck by lightening.
However, the last two times to France, I was drawn to Notre Dame, had to go every day. Visited other cathedrals as well. Can't explain what was going on. Then the Christmas before last, on a whim, I went to a small Catholic church for Xmas mass, just for the hell of it. When I left JW, this little community church always looked so inviting as I would go by on my daily walks early in the morning. Any hoo, the mass was lovely, the people were lovely, the service was lovely.
I would like to know from you kind RCC's how do you reconcile the worship of images? And also the bowing and worship of the priests etc. I am sincere in my question, not debating or arguing.
TIA
Dag
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

And kissing crosses, pictures of saints, having medals and tapwater blessed?
 
BurnTheShips
BurnTheShips 7 years ago

I would like to know from you kind RCC's how do you reconcile the worship of images? And also the bowing and worship of the priests etc.
To put it very simply, we don't worship images. We don't worship priests either.
And kissing crosses, pictures of saints, having medals and tapwater blessed?
Physical things can contain spiritual things. This is one thing that I like about Catholicism, it acknowledges our physicality as human beings and in the physical world.
BTS
 
mouthy
mouthy 7 years ago

Mouthy, I hope I'm misinterpreting your post. It sounds like you are saying practicing the RC religion is vomit-worthy. I hope you're not saying that while at the same time expecting others to respect your religious practice.
I find all religion distasteful to varying degrees, but I would never vomit on yours.
I do NOT have ANY religion girl.. NONE at all I have been hurt by so many!!!!
I prefer to think I have a relationship .Sorry to offend as religous talks tend to do....
 
drwtsn32
drwtsn32 7 years ago

Semantics, mouthy.
 
Amazing
Amazing 7 years ago

Dagney and Minimus,
BTS stated it very well ... with respect to worship and the like, I have never worshiped a Saint or Priest or image, and never will.
As for tap water ... Jesus turned ordinary water into wine ... would you not have called it blessed? Why cannot God, through a Priest, bless ordinary water? Cannot God do that is he so chooses?
 
Dagney
Dagney 7 years ago

"To put it very simply, we don't worship images. We don't worship priests either."
Burns,
Then what is it?
Again, I'm not arguing, I really want to understand what seems to me a huge conflict. I never had the opportunity before to ask before, at least ask ones who share the history we all have had.
If anything I know now is there is a hell of a lot I don't know. So I respect everyone and their beliefs and journeys.
TIA
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

I feel bad for Saint Christopher. He was downgraded from "saint" to simply being a "legend". Still, many devout Catholics refuse to accepte that revised Status and still believe he could protect them. Some would never go without their St. Christopher medal. So sad to see their blind faith.
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

From a biblical view, God or Jesus could do anything. Mere man, even sinner priests are not God.
 
Amazing
Amazing 7 years ago

I do NOT have ANY religion girl.. NONE at all I have been hurt by so many!!!! ... I prefer to think I have a relationship .Sorry to offend as religous talks tend to do....
Only atheists stand a chance of saying that they do not have a religion ... if you believe in Jesus, as you said you did ... even if you are the head of your private 'relationship' standard as you call it ... you have a religion. No one is offended ... you are certainly entitled to it ... and no one judges you. Some of us simply have chosen to walk a different road.
 
BurnTheShips
BurnTheShips 7 years ago

Then what is it?
Again, I'm not arguing, I really want to understand what seems to me a huge conflict.
I know you aren't trying to argue. We use terms such as venerate and honor. Catholic.com has very good information regarding these things, especially the forum.
BTS
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

"if you believe in Jesus you have a religion". Untrue (once again).
 
Amazing
Amazing 7 years ago

From a biblical view, God or Jesus could do anything. Mere man, even sinner priests are not God.
True ... but did not the mere human and sinful Apostles perform miracles? Surely God can work through sinful humans, can he not? Did not God work through Moses to part the Red Sea, win battles, bring water out from rocks, for the Apostle to cure sickness, raise the dead, and expel demons? What is so difficult about blessing some water? To have God work through us does not require we be perfect ... that is the JW roots showing, the extreme expectation that people have to be perfect, sinless, and the same as God. Our righteousness does not come from being perfect and doing works of righteousness ... it comes from the blood of Christ shed for us all ... me and you.
 
Amazing
Amazing 7 years ago

"if you believe in Jesus you have a religion". Untrue (once again).
Belief in Jesus, or as Mouthy put it, having a relationship with him, is, by its very nature, a form of religion ... even if it is just a person of one. Atheism can be another form of religion ... I suppose it depends on how one defines religion ... but, given how people treat the topic when they say that they only believe in a relationship with Jesus, they are playing semantics to claim that they are not religious or do not have a religion. Perhaps they need to draw a line between being a member of a religious organization and having a religious faith. To a Catholic, organizational membership is not even on the charts ... being a Christian is what religion is all about.
 
Dagney
Dagney 7 years ago

Okay, I debated between using the word "venerate" or worship. ("Worship" is so JW. Like standing when a judge entered the room. )
So I understand. It is more of a reverance, not an "act" of worship. Yes?
I'll check out the link. (Of course I want to right now, but I have to do something called work.)
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

Perverted priests (those that have been molesters for decades) can say they are turning tap water into holy water because they as, perverted priests, say so, but I think it's a ridiculous assumption---as if God would utilize these pigs to make something holy.
 
Robdar
Robdar 7 years ago

Just because a roman catholic asks a saint for help or guidance, doesn't mean the roman catholic is worshipping the saint. When you ask your best friend for help and guidance, are you worshipping your friend?
 
mouthy
mouthy 7 years ago

your private 'relationship' standard as you call it
Mathew 6:6 says >>"And when you pray,do not be like the hypocrites,
for they love to pray standing in the synagogues & on the street
corners to beseen by men,I tell you the truth,they have received their reward
in full.But when you pray ,go into your room,close the door & pray to your Father,
who is unseen.Then your Father ,who sees what is done in secret,Will reward you "
I do this constantly Amazing....
 
BurnTheShips
BurnTheShips 7 years ago

So I understand. It is more of a reverance, not an "act" of worship. Yes?
Right. The image or statue is not worshipped. The archetype it represents may be, such as Jesus.
BTS
 
rebel8
rebel8 7 years ago

I'm really surprised you have an emotional reaction to someone else wearing a St. Christopher medal, minimus!
If you don't believe they have magic or powers, why are you sad if people wear jewelry, sprinkle water on themselves, etc.?
There's a lot of things we can point to that are harmful about religions; medals and holy water aren't among them. IMHO.
I guess I don't understand why the question about worship of images is brought up. Again, zzzZZZzzz. Doesn't matter.
It's against the Bible? So are a lot of things that other Bible-based religious people do. Worshipping a statue is harmless, why focus on that of all things?
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 7
 …
 9
 10
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
out of all mainstream religions, roman catholicism seems to be the most cultic to me, even more so than jehovah's witnesses in certain ways.. the belief in transubstantiation , i think that's how it's spelled, is weird!
the attire of the clergy is satanic looking.
the view of papal authority is not that much different than a jw's view of "the slave".. .



Related Topics
Cota Samuel
My experience with religion
by Cota Samuel 4 months ago
Terry
A POP QUIZ about the origin of "NEW LIGHT"
by Terry a month ago
Terry
ARE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES SUSPICIOUS, CYNICAL and WRONG? IF SO, WHY?
by Terry 9 days ago
Greybeard
The KEY WORD in Isaiah 44:25-26 is "Predictions" and the apostles NEVER made any predictions setting dates.
by Greybeard 3 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo a month ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/174436/does-roman-catholicism-teach-truth?page=4&size=20






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Does Roman Catholicism Teach The "Truth"?
/  





 

Does Roman Catholicism Teach The "Truth"?
by minimus 7 years ago 180 Replies latest 7 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 7
 …
 9
 10
 »
 5
10
20
BurnTheShips
BurnTheShips 7 years ago

Perverted priests (those that have been molesters for decades) can say they are turning tap water into holy water because they as, perverted priests, say so, but I think it's a ridiculous assumption---as if God would utilize these pigs to make something holy.
There were wicked priests in the Bible too. None of the prophets told the people to stop worshipping at the Temple, even when they criticized the wickedness of the men that sat in the seat of Moses and Aaron. Even Jesus did not do this. The functions stem from the position, not from the (fallen) man occupying it. And besides, "good" priests far, far outnumber the "bad" ones.
BTS
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

The Catholic Ency. calls it "relative WORSHIP" regarding the saints, crosses and religious symbols. That's naughty.
 
mouthy
mouthy 7 years ago

Worshipping a statue is harmless, why focus on that of all things?
Where did I read we shouldnt bow down to graven images,OOPS Grace
you must have made it up
 
mouthy
mouthy 7 years ago

"good" priests far, far outnumber the "bad" ones.
Not according to Agenda last night . Father Tom Doyle
is trying to clean it up.HE is still a Faithful follower of Christ
as a Catholic OUTSIDE the Corrupt Church
 
Amazing
Amazing 7 years ago


your private 'relationship' standard as you call it
Matthew 6:6 says >>"And when you pray,do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues & on the street corners to beseen by men, I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door & pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, Will reward you " ... I do this constantly Amazing....
Have you ever seen me pray? No one is saying that praying in private vs public is right or wrong. If one does pray in public for a wrong and hypocritical motive ... than that is wrong. And if pure privacy is the only right thing ... then why would one even acknowledge in public, before thousands of Internet viewers, that one constantly prays in private? Would this not also be the same as doing it to be seen by men ... by openly making such a proclamation? Rather, is not the heart, the motive, what God judges? Then, cannot one pray in public with a right motive? Jesus prayed before a crowd of 5,000 ... the Apostles prayed before thousands on the day of Pentecost ... so clearly, they understood Jesus in the light of what he was teaching ... and not making a rule that one can only find honest prayer in one's bedroom ... for if we take Jesus always literally, we will soon have to pluck out our eyes for sinning!
 
Finally-Free
Finally-Free 7 years ago

Just because a roman catholic asks a saint for help or guidance, doesn't mean the roman catholic is worshipping the saint. When you ask your best friend for help and guidance, are you worshipping your friend?
I really wish someone would have pointed out this simple and obvious concept to my family in the early '70s when the JWs first came to our door. It could have saved us a lot of pain.
I wonder how much of this anti-catholic sentiment is residual watchtower indoctrination. The JWs seemed to concentrate on trashing catholicism much more than other religions, even though other religions also have their share of skeletons in their closets.
W
 
mouthy
mouthy 7 years ago

I presume that NO ONE on here watched "AGENDA" last night on Channell 2
 
BurnTheShips
BurnTheShips 7 years ago

I didn't watch AGENDA. I don't know what their AGENDA could be.
But I've met priests, there are three at my church, my brother has been in seminary, and my father is going to be a deacon, so I've met a few thriugh their associations, and they have all been very good men from what I could tell.
BTS
 
Finally-Free
Finally-Free 7 years ago

I presume that NO ONE on here watched "AGENDA" last night on Channell 2
No, I put on my Dirty Dozen DVD last night. I love that movie.
W
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

My mother and father were raised as Catholics. I see many similarities between the Witnesses and Catholics. The elders are very similar to priests. The GB and COs are much like the Pope and cardinals. GUILT is what they both sponsor.Obedience to the Church or Organization= God' s approval.
 
BurnTheShips
BurnTheShips 7 years ago

My mother and father were raised as Catholics. I see many similarities between the Witnesses and Catholics. The elders are very similar to priests. The GB and COs are much like the Pope and cardinals.
So any kind of governance or hierarchy automatically makes something JW-like in a negative way?
That is not logical
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

I never said that, BTS. But I think my examples are spot on.
 
VIII
VIII 7 years ago

I have not read the whole thread.
I have been recently going to Catholic Churches with my spouse--on Sundays. At first I did not go. I refused. I know that was residual JW stuff.
I have met numerous priests at numerous parishes and they have all been very nice. I met one who was not. He was the priest at my relatives funeral-just last week. He was the priest at her church. Apparently she didn't care for him but he was the only priest there. He was actually from Ireland and speaks with a thick accent.
I don't agree with many of the biblical teachings. That is my issue. That is not a Catholic issue. I simply don't believe the bible. I think a lot of it is ridiculous. And, honestly, a virgin birth? Ummm, I just don't buy it. So, if I can't believe that, the rest of the new testament is a bunch of poop.
So, I go to listen and perhaps hear something different.
It is different.
When I first walked in the first Catholic church I thought for sure Jehovah was going to strike me dead. Seriously. And that was years after fading away and not going to a KH in years. Mind control is an amazing thing, huh?
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

Going into a church doesn't bother me. Actually some beautiful art work exists in many churches as well as style. They even have windows!
I have a friend of mine that LOVES his Catholic faith. Everytime he drives by a church, he has to say a prayer. His family thinks it'w weird as I do but he loves his church. His decision but I certainly don't see his religion as truth.
 
BurnTheShips
BurnTheShips 7 years ago

His decision but I certainly don't see his religion as truth.
Quid est veritas?
BTS
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

It ain't the Catholic Church, BTS.
 
Finally-Free
Finally-Free 7 years ago

There is only one fundamental truth. Rocco has a fluffy butt. Everything else is subject to change without notice.
W
 
Robdar
Robdar 7 years ago


There is only one fundamental truth. Rocco has a fluffy butt. Everything else is subject to change without notice.
Amen, Brother Free.
 
VIII
VIII 7 years ago

I was taught, as I'm sure most JWs are, to never, ever go into another faiths church. We were not allowed to go to weddings, funerals, etc. if they were held in a church.
As for "Truth", I believe the old testament is a good book for wandering around the desert. Thousands of years ago.
The new testament? It was written too long after Jesus was around. By a bunch of men who may or may not have been literate.
Truth from thousands of years ago is elusive.
edited to add:
I am still willing to go to Sunday mass and hear what they have to say at the local Catholic church. It is one hour of my time. I can spare it for my spouse and it is rarely boring. The people are nice while in the building. In the parking lot they become a-holes.
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

Rocco is The Truth. If you asked him to throw some "holy water" on you, I'm sure he'd be as effective as any Father.
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 7
 …
 9
 10
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
out of all mainstream religions, roman catholicism seems to be the most cultic to me, even more so than jehovah's witnesses in certain ways.. the belief in transubstantiation , i think that's how it's spelled, is weird!
the attire of the clergy is satanic looking.
the view of papal authority is not that much different than a jw's view of "the slave".. .



Related Topics
Cota Samuel
My experience with religion
by Cota Samuel 4 months ago
Terry
A POP QUIZ about the origin of "NEW LIGHT"
by Terry a month ago
Terry
ARE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES SUSPICIOUS, CYNICAL and WRONG? IF SO, WHY?
by Terry 9 days ago
Greybeard
The KEY WORD in Isaiah 44:25-26 is "Predictions" and the apostles NEVER made any predictions setting dates.
by Greybeard 3 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo a month ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/174436/does-roman-catholicism-teach-truth?page=5&size=20





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Does Roman Catholicism Teach The "Truth"?
/  





 

Does Roman Catholicism Teach The "Truth"?
by minimus 7 years ago 180 Replies latest 7 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 …
 4
 5
 6
 7
 8
 9
 10
 »
 5
10
20
coffee_black
coffee_black 7 years ago

I enjoy going to church. I've been to many, including the Catholic Church. That does not, however define or control my personal relationship with God. I do not believe that a Pastor or Priest's relationship with God is in any way superior to my own. I think many put more emphasis on the "early church fathers" than they do on Jesus. I think traditions can detract from worship. In light of Matthew 23:10, I find it curious that anyone would call a religious leader Father. I also find absolutely no scriptural precedent for praying to Mary or "saints".
That being said, I find it upbuilding to worship with other Christians. I don't need a church ,however, to worship God or pray. Whether I go to church or not, God is with me always. No church can give you salvation and no church can take it away. I don't think salvation depends on how much you know...having all the right answers according to whoever is interpreting scripture. I believe it depends on your relationship with God through Christ. Period. If you think that "The Truth" is a church or doctrine or knowledge, I think you are looking to man, not God.
Jesus CLEARLY said that HE is "The Truth". I'm certainly not going to argue that point with Him.
Coffee
 
hamsterbait
hamsterbait 7 years ago

The "PRIESTLY GARB" so happily condemned by the JWs is just the clothing worn by men doing the job of a priest in the middle ages.
In those days if you were a Doctor, priest, nun (ie Nurse), Barber, or any other profession, you wore garments that ADVERTISED what your job is. A priest had to be approachable to deal with emergencies of the soul - immediate death from accident or disease - you could have spotted one immediately.
Just like the Witlesses, where they still wear suits and ties where nobody else does, so priests still wear the ancient robes. I dont think Almighty God gives a flying fart what you wear when you pray or worship.
Remember he had Eve running round in Eden, blood dripping between her legs every month.
Why would the cloth we cover our bodies with to keep warm matter to HIM?
HB
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

HB, but we're not in the Middle Ages any longer. When folks where Middle ages attire, they look weird. And many men still where suits and ties, not just JWs.
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Mouthy, I didn't see Agenda either. It probably wasn't on down here in the States. However, statistically, less than 1/2 of 1% of RC priests have been accused of sexual abuse, let alone convicted. That means over 99.5% have not been accused of wrongdoing. I believe the statistics for the Dubs is 1 1/2% of elders accused of sexual abuse.
I'm certainly not excusing the priests nor the people who looked the other way. However, I know some really wonderful priests and I don't think it's fair to malign them all.
Just like we all know some very sincere, devoted elders who are really trying to do their best~and they finally end up here on JWN!
Mouthy, I'm sorry you've been hurt in the past by the various churches and Kingdom Halls you've attended and I will pray for you to have healing from the pain it has caused you. I guess I'm just lucky that I've had a few really great priests cross my path.
St. Ann
 
hamsterbait
hamsterbait 7 years ago

M luv-
The Suit and tie no longer advertises a profession. For years the Babble Students advocated Frock Coats as a sign of Spirituality along with not smiling often.
What difference does it make if the clergy of a religion are dressing by the standards of the middle ages or those of the "I Love Lucy" show.
HB
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

I like Monk.
 
coffee_black
coffee_black 7 years ago

Why does a priest need to advertise his profession by his clothes? Wouldn't everyone know he was a priest the second he started the Mass?
Coffee
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Minimus, remember that in the O.T., God set out a very specific standard of dress for the priests. The history of liturgical vestments goes back a long way. All items of liturgical dress have specific meanings, some to show the role of the person wearing the vestments, such as a deacon vs. a priest, and some to remind the priest of the various roles he is performing.
There is a reason for it all, not that it matters to non-Catholics, and it's part of the history of our faith. We like it and don't want to change it just because it's not modern. I see no benefit in modern dress. And I really don't see why it should be a problem for anyone, since what a priest wears does not effect our salvation.
St. Ann
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Coffee Black - Not necessarily. A Deacon can do most of the Mass but not all of it and dresses differently than a priest. The Cardinals dress differently than parish priests. The Pope dresses differently from the Cardinals. Different roles have different vestments.
Also, you can tell by the vestments what denomination someone belongs to. Catholic priests wear the "Roman Collar" whereas I've seen Lutheran pastors wear an entirely different collar. And Episcopal priests dress to the nines when they are "on duty". A Catholic parish priest has specific clothes he is supposed to wear when he isn't in the pulpit, so you can tell a Catholic priest anywhere.
St. Ann
 
mouthy
mouthy 7 years ago

St. Ann
I would suggest you Google Father Tom Doyle. He does not agree with your percentage
 
coffee_black
coffee_black 7 years ago

StAnn,
I'm not sure why any of that is necessary. To me it should all be about Jesus. And clothing that defines ranking? Not sure what Jesus would have to say about that. No offense... just not feelin' it.
Coffee
 
beksbks
beksbks 7 years ago

The only time I have been to a church other than a Kingdom Hall, was an Episcopalian one. I thought it was pretty cool. Beautiful building, lot's of pomp, robes, incense................... Sing, pray, kneel, pray, stand, sing, pray, kneel...............certainly no time to get boring. Then a nice short little talk on love. Great stuff. If it wasn't bible based, and you didn't need to believe in god, I would probably go semi regularly.
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Mouthy, I went to the USCCB site and looked at the studies they farmed out. It's showing the diocesan priests at 3-4% and the religious orders at 1.5-2%. I stand corrected. My data was old.
However, even at the top range of 4%, I don't want to malign the 96% who take their vocation seriously.
St. Ann
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Mouthy, I'm trying to read as much as I can on Tom Doyle. I'm not ignoring you.
Anyway, something I find interesting: a statement in an article that came up when I googled Tom Doyle said,
"Doyle says that this new, emboldened spirit has kept the momentum going as more and more victims come forward even today. The scandal of 2002 marked a culmination of events and forces: the revelations of secret documents; the power of the Internet to connect victims; a heightened cultural consciousness about sex abuse; a new determination from reporters to tell the story. "
I'm thinking that the WTS will not be able to dodge the Internet bullet for too much longer. If we can just get more news outlets involved in telling our stories.
St. Ann
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Minimus, just out of curiosity, why did you start this particular thread?
St. Ann
 
yesidid
yesidid 7 years ago

Great thread! One of your best.
Thanks Min.
Some people seem to think it's OK to find every conceivible thing wrong with the JW's, but we must say nothing negative about the Church of the Inquisition.
They are birds of a feather.

yesidid
 
mouthy
mouthy 7 years ago

I'm thinking that the WTS will not be able to dodge the Internet bullet for too much longer. If we can just get more news outlets involved in telling our stories.
St. Ann
YES Agree How I wish we could see" Agenda" do a documentary on the JWS
/I am trying to find out how to get in touch with the Producers of last night documentry
But one of the Priests that molested & raped over 100 kids.Was intervied He admitted
to them all( even raping a 9month old baby) He is now living FREE in Ireland.
Many of the BIG Shots in the Church also admitted even though they KNEW what he had done
They sent him on to another Parish. I have to admit I dont think a JW ELDER
would ever admit on Camara to doing any thing wrong.
I have to say I was VERY UPSET by watching the documentary .It made me VERY ANGRY!!!!
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Yesidid, say as much negative as you want about the Catholic Church. No one is stopping you. Just be accurate, is all I ask. Oh, and you won't be shunned or called an apostate for criticizing the Church, either.
Mouthy, that is so horrible. Nine months old? How can he be living free in Ireland? Don't they have prisons? It doesn't make sense.
As Robin Williams says, "It's not just a sin--it's a felony."
St. Ann
 
yesidid
yesidid 7 years ago

Oh, and you won't be shunned or called an apostate for criticizing the Church, either.
St Ann,
That is true, but neither will you be shunned if you are a pedophile.

You will just be shifted to another parish.

yesidid
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Yesidid~Not anymore, thank God. And my bishop is one of those who ignored the letters from parishioners complaining of sexual abuse, so it's not as if I'm naive. I'm pretty sure there's a special hell for people like that. We're getting a new bishop now. Hopefully he's not corrupt. Seems pretty much a straight arrow from his previous postings.
St. Ann
 

«
 1
 2
 …
 4
 5
 6
 7
 8
 9
 10
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
out of all mainstream religions, roman catholicism seems to be the most cultic to me, even more so than jehovah's witnesses in certain ways.. the belief in transubstantiation , i think that's how it's spelled, is weird!
the attire of the clergy is satanic looking.
the view of papal authority is not that much different than a jw's view of "the slave".. .



Related Topics
Cota Samuel
My experience with religion
by Cota Samuel 4 months ago
Terry
A POP QUIZ about the origin of "NEW LIGHT"
by Terry a month ago
Terry
ARE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES SUSPICIOUS, CYNICAL and WRONG? IF SO, WHY?
by Terry 9 days ago
Greybeard
The KEY WORD in Isaiah 44:25-26 is "Predictions" and the apostles NEVER made any predictions setting dates.
by Greybeard 3 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo a month ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/174436/does-roman-catholicism-teach-truth?page=6&size=20






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Does Roman Catholicism Teach The "Truth"?
/  





 

Does Roman Catholicism Teach The "Truth"?
by minimus 7 years ago 180 Replies latest 7 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 …
 4
 5
 6
 7
 8
 9
 10
 »
 5
10
20
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Oh, Yesidid~One thing I wanted to share with you. In my parish, one of my fellow parishioners is a defrocked priest who sexually abused a child 20 years ago. He was not only a priest but also a Canon lawyer. He was defrocked and stripped of his right to practice law, since his conduct was a felony. He has been given permission to actively participate in our parish because neither his victim nor the victim's family lives anywhere nearby. He is in the choir with me and sits on a committee with me.
Much as I abhor his past conduct, I acknowledge that he is a sinner as am I and that no sin is too big for Our Lord. I have to accept that he is honestly repentent and has done his penance before God. It is my duty to show forgiveness as a Christian and accept him into my parish.
Although I'm not so stupid as to leave him alone with my children, no matter how repentent he may be. He's still human and could fall again.
St. Ann
 
mouthy
mouthy 7 years ago

You asked how come he is free ! He served six years, & then was released
He was Irish so he went back to his land.
He admitted he still gets turned on when he sees kids,in bathing suits,pretty girls,
He masturbated MANY BOYS!!!I sat crying listening to it all.
I too am a sinner .....but that is absolutly DEVILISH!!!!!! The Devil looks after his own...
 
beksbks
beksbks 7 years ago

Religion is a tool to control people. Has been since we could walk. It's power of some over others. Period. The Catholics happened to be some of the oldest, and worst. Religion is a snare and a racket. And the opium of the masses.
 
yesidid
yesidid 7 years ago

As you say Beks it's about power.
We saw the inquisition when the Catholic Church had complete power.
The WBTS has learned well from the Catholics, and, given the same power, I am tempted to think we might see someting similar.

yesidid
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

I've always been "turned off" by Catholicism. The adoration of the Pope borders on worship. I see JWs similar when they see a GB member and get all goosebumpy. When I was an active elder I used to sneak a peek at John Ankerberg and he did exposes' on many different groups like the Mormons, JWs and the RCC. And I think he spoke the truth about all these "cults".
 
mouthy
mouthy 7 years ago

John Ankerberg came to PA convention to interveiw us all.
A really nice guy!! sure knows all about RELIGION!!!
Well MIni.... You sure opened a can of worms when you started THIS post
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

Good! I'm happy to expose religions that don't teach truth.
I'm fascinated by the Bible Students groups too and know they might be zealous good persons but they too have not got the Truth.
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Minimus, I kinda don't see that you exposed anything.
Now, I believe that the Catholic Church is the church that Jesus started and I believe Jesus when he said that he would be with his Church until the end of time. I believe the Church started off in scandal, i.e., Judas betrayal and Peter's denial, and thus guess I shouldn't be surprised that there is still scandalous activity within the Church. However, the teachings of the Church are the same and are as Jesus and the Holy Spirit have given them to us and they have not been changed by the scandalous activity of some bad Catholics, of whom there are plenty. I believe that God works with us and through us, sinful though we may be.
I certainly believe that the doctrines of the Church are true. I believe in the Bible.
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son Our Lord, w ho was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into Hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into Heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and life everlasting.
That is the Apostles' Creed, so called because it is rightly considered the be a faithful summary of the apostles' faith. I have the same faith as the apostles because they were with Jesus and were taught by Jesus and he left them in charge of his Church.
I'm not going to argue with Jesus. I figure he knows what he's doing.
St. Ann
 
compound complex
compound complex 7 years ago

The greatest and most undeniable truth to date is that Minimus' last post is a palindromic number ...
CC
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

yes, coco, quite a puzzle to me, too.
St. Ann
 
BurnTheShips
BurnTheShips 7 years ago

Catholic teaching speaks truth to me. Others don't have to feel the same way, it's OK. We are all going to go home to the Father one way or another unless we don't want to.
BTS
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Burn, so true. I guess that's the one point I would like to make here. You don't HAVE to be Catholic and I'm not trying to convert everyone. It's all about free will.
At the same time, I feel it necessary to try to clarify things that are put out about my church that are misguided.
St. Ann
 
BurnTheShips
BurnTheShips 7 years ago

St. Ann. Thank you so much for your gift. You have a PM.
I'm not going to argue with Jesus. I figure he knows what he's doing.
Me too.
BTS
 
Amazing
Amazing 7 years ago

Yesidid:
As you say Beks it's about power. ... We saw the inquisition when the Catholic Church had complete power. ... The WBTS has learned well from the Catholics, and, given the same power, I am tempted to think we might see someting similar.
Describe the Inquisition in factual historical terms. Where was it located? Did the Church approve of it? Was it a localized problem to a part of Spain, all of Spain, all of western Europe, all of Europe, all of the known Catholic world? Why is it actually referred to as the Spanish Inquisition? How did it start? Did the Church provide any guidance? Was that guidance followed or ignored? Was is the position of the Church today? Does the Church still haver an Office of Inquisition?
lets have some facts, rather than bandy about the Inquisition as though it was something it may not have been. Explore various sources, not just anti-Catholic ... but neutral historical sources and also Catholic sources.
Start here: http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=6129 Then here: http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=6130
Clue: In the case of Canonical Inquisition, the Church set about judicial guidance to chase down criminals ... like murders and rapists.
Whatever the truth is of your research, let it be told, both favorable and unfavorable ... and note your sources, whether they are credible ... and be careful of Wikipedia, as it is still not professionally peer reviewed, and can be biased in parts.
I am not endorsing what happened in some respects of the Inquisition ... but it certainly needs to be clarified in a proper historical context.
I am also starting a new post on a related topic.
 
mouthy
mouthy 7 years ago

So your starting a new post amazing. Keep it up
You & St Anne may gain a few converts I DONT believe in the Catholic Church
But keep it up... who knows you may be able to convert a few Atheists.
As for ME I will follow the LORD!!!! No MEN!!!!!!( or woman Ann
 
beksbks
beksbks 7 years ago

You don't HAVE to be Catholic and I'm not trying to convert everyone. It's all about free will.
Unless of course you choose to have a legal abortion, or marry your same sex partner.
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

You'll never get to heaven if you that stuff!
 
Robdar
Robdar 7 years ago


Good! I'm happy to expose religions that don't teach truth.
And just who has the truth, Min? Those of us with inquiring minds want to know who has the truth according to minimus, who cannot even be bothered to post his real name.

So your starting a new post amazing. Keep it up
You & St Anne may gain a few converts I DONT believe in the Catholic Church
But keep it up... who knows you may be able to convert a few Atheists.
As for ME I will follow the LORD!!!! No MEN!!!!!!( or woman Ann
Wow Grace. Aren't you especially self righteous today?
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

How come the Mafia can do all these "mortal sins" and still be members of the Church? All a Catholic has to do is go to confession and it's all good, plus donate....What a racket!
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

Robdar, I know who doesn't have the truth.
 

«
 1
 2
 …
 4
 5
 6
 7
 8
 9
 10
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
out of all mainstream religions, roman catholicism seems to be the most cultic to me, even more so than jehovah's witnesses in certain ways.. the belief in transubstantiation , i think that's how it's spelled, is weird!
the attire of the clergy is satanic looking.
the view of papal authority is not that much different than a jw's view of "the slave".. .



Related Topics
Cota Samuel
My experience with religion
by Cota Samuel 4 months ago
Terry
A POP QUIZ about the origin of "NEW LIGHT"
by Terry a month ago
Terry
ARE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES SUSPICIOUS, CYNICAL and WRONG? IF SO, WHY?
by Terry 9 days ago
Greybeard
The KEY WORD in Isaiah 44:25-26 is "Predictions" and the apostles NEVER made any predictions setting dates.
by Greybeard 3 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo a month ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/174436/does-roman-catholicism-teach-truth?page=7&size=20






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Does Roman Catholicism Teach The "Truth"?
/  





 

Does Roman Catholicism Teach The "Truth"?
by minimus 7 years ago 180 Replies latest 7 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 …
 4
 5
 6
 7
 8
 9
 10
 »
 5
10
20
mouthy
mouthy 7 years ago

Or dont kiss the Popes hand,
Or dont bow down to the statues,
or cover over trannsgressions( by letting molesters pass the emblems
I could go on and on..
But if folks like to do that.
they are free to do so.
or pray to Mary!!!She may be
able to put a good word in for you.
She told the folks to do WHATEVER HE said>JESUS

 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

I pray to Mary, the poster Mary.
 
mouthy
mouthy 7 years ago

I pray for her !!!!!!
 
Robdar
Robdar 7 years ago


Robdar, I know who doesn't have the truth.
Really? Well then, you must have special powers. Oh, and great way to avoid the question, btw.
Really, Min, all you know is who doesn't have your truth.
 
Finally-Free
Finally-Free 7 years ago

I really don't understand all the rancor here. If you don't believe in it, then don't go. I'm sure the pope, bishops, priests and nuns won't spend too much time crying in their beer over it.
Personally, if I choose to go to a church - any church - it's up to me, and if I choose to stay away that's my own business also. I don't have to explain myself to anyone.
Why do some feel the need to criticize the beliefs of others? Why do some feel the need to defend their beliefs? Is it insecurity?
Really, who gives a shit whether others agree or not?
W
 
Amazing
Amazing 7 years ago

Unless of course you choose to have a legal abortion, or marry your same sex partner.
Abortion is murder ... the doctors urged my mom to abort me to save her life ... she refused to murder her unborn child ... me ... and we both lived.
Marriage is a religious term. Gays can use the 'civil union' process and gain all the same rights.
If a person wants to be a Catholic, then murder and homosexuality cannot be practiced ... if you want to murder your unborn, and marry your same sex partner, then do not seek to be Catholic. It's as simple as that ... it is all free will.
 
beksbks
beksbks 7 years ago

No, it's not about free will. Because you and yours believe the above, you take it upon yourselves to change laws and influence the state according to YOUR beliefs. You would take away my free will.
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

But Catholics do murder and are gay. They're generally not excommunicated.
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

Robdar, you don't need special powers to know if something isn't true.
I don't claim to know who has the truth. But I know who doesn't. (said for emphasis).
 
beksbks
beksbks 7 years ago

A 14th century religious term that can also be used to mean combine or close union? As in "a marriage of flavors"?
mar·riage Pronunciation: \ ' mer-ij, ' ma-rij\ Function: nounEtymology: Middle English mariage, from Anglo-French, from marier to marry Date: 14th century 1 a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage> b : the mutual relation of married persons :wedlock c : the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage 2 : an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected ; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities 3 : an intimate or close union <the marriage of painting and poetry — J. T. Shawcross>
 
Robdar
Robdar 7 years ago


Robdar, you don't need special powers to know if something isn't true.
I don't claim to know who has the truth. But I know who doesn't. (said for emphasis).
Don't try to butter me up with all that sugar, Mr.
Sorry, but if you do not know who has the truth, you cannot know who doesn't have the truth.
 
Finally-Free
Finally-Free 7 years ago

But Catholics do murder and are gay. They're generally not excommunicated.
Couldn't that be said about members of every religion? Why single out only Catholics?
W
 
Robdar
Robdar 7 years ago


Why single out only Catholics?
Why, indeed. Some of the best and sweetest people I know are Catholics.
 
beksbks
beksbks 7 years ago

FF, I believe he was merely responding to Amazings comment, not singling out Catholics.
 
Finally-Free
Finally-Free 7 years ago

FF, I believe he was merely responding to Amazings comment, not singling out Catholics.
Hell, this entire thread is all about singling out the Catholics. It's in the title. What about Lutherans, Baptists, Sikhs, or others? I could be mistaken, but I seem to recall a similar thread some time back, so I'm wondering why Catholics occupy such a special place in his heart as opposed to other religions.
W
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

Let's not confuse disliking the people. I'm talking about the religion. I think the Lutherans, Baptists, Sikhs don't teach the Truth either.
"sorry but if you do not know who has the truth, you cannot know who doesn't have the truth".
Says who? You, sugar?
 
Robdar
Robdar 7 years ago


"sorry but if you do not know who has the truth, you cannot know who doesn't have the truth".
Says who? You, sugar?

Why Baby, how can you know that which you do not know? If you do not know what is true, how can you know what is false? Same coin different sides.
Answer the question: How do you know what the truth isn't without knowing what the truth is? Aw, that's right you cant answer the question.
Hmmm, I'm wondering if you still think the the JW's have the truth and you just don't want to say it for fear you may get back some of the public ridicule you are dishing out.
 
beksbks
beksbks 7 years ago

Hell, this entire thread is all about singling out the Catholics. It's in the title. What about Lutherans, Baptists, Sikhs, or others?
Aaahh I see. Well I am all for a thread singling out the Baptists now.
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

Robdar, you obviously don't read what I say about JWs. They don't have the truth either. Oh, but I can't say that because I don't know who has "The Truth".
I know when something is wrong or untrue. I don't need to know what absolute truth and right is in order to make my first statement.
I could look at a forgery and say it isn't true, real. I don't have to be an art expert to make that truthful statement,
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

One thing we can all agree upon here~we don't believe the WTS has the truth. We will each find it in our own way, in our own time, in my opinion.
St. Ann
 

«
 1
 2
 …
 4
 5
 6
 7
 8
 9
 10
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
out of all mainstream religions, roman catholicism seems to be the most cultic to me, even more so than jehovah's witnesses in certain ways.. the belief in transubstantiation , i think that's how it's spelled, is weird!
the attire of the clergy is satanic looking.
the view of papal authority is not that much different than a jw's view of "the slave".. .



Related Topics
Cota Samuel
My experience with religion
by Cota Samuel 4 months ago
Terry
A POP QUIZ about the origin of "NEW LIGHT"
by Terry a month ago
Terry
ARE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES SUSPICIOUS, CYNICAL and WRONG? IF SO, WHY?
by Terry 9 days ago
Greybeard
The KEY WORD in Isaiah 44:25-26 is "Predictions" and the apostles NEVER made any predictions setting dates.
by Greybeard 3 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo a month ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/174436/does-roman-catholicism-teach-truth?page=8&size=20






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Does Roman Catholicism Teach The "Truth"?
/  





 

Does Roman Catholicism Teach The "Truth"?
by minimus 7 years ago 180 Replies latest 7 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 …
 4
 5
 6
 7
 8
 9
 10
 »
 5
10
20
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

Ann, I believe you're a very sweet person.
 
mouthy
mouthy 7 years ago

Really, who gives a shit whether others agree or not?
When the religion has done ME & Mine wrong I give a shit....
I will stand up & tell the WRONG it did ME!!!! Do you mind?????
I wont suffer in silence The JWs ,Catholic, Coonities,All screwd me & messed up my family
I have to leave you all too it. Because I am VERY TICKED Now.
 
coffee_black
coffee_black 7 years ago

Ok...here's my take on it. There is no offense intended...so please understand that I say this with love.
I agree that religion has been the cause of horrific problems and divisions throughout history. In my opinion it is because it has such massive potential for abuse. Power hungry people tend to gravitate to positions that can give them power over others. On the other extreme, many feel safer, somehow, when they can give over their spirituality to a group, or leader, and they surrender their trust to that entity. That, to me, is a blueprint for tragedy. The only one who I surrender to is Jesus. Churches are one category of groups where that kind of power exists. There are some wonderful pastors and priests…and much good can be done through a church. Much harm can be done as well….so one has to keep one’s eyes open at all times.

A Christian is simply a follower of Christ. It is when you identify yourself first as a Baptist or a Catholic or any other division …..that the focus changes and problems start. When one identifies themselves with a set of doctrines, or a certain leader other than Christ, the focus changes. For example, ask yourself… Why would a church be called St Peter’s, or St Catherine’s etc.? Why is a Christian Church named after anyone other than Christ?

There is a Catholic Church here that is still conducted in Latin, and women are required to wear a veil. I find that appalling. First of all, why would I go to a church where I can not understand what is being said? What’s the purpose of that? How much can be learned there? I’m told it’s tradition. In this case I clearly see that tradition is being made more important than the message. It should not be so. Secondly, the veil…. I’m told it is an effort to return to the tradition of the time of Christ, where women wore veils. Well if that is so, then why are men not required to wear prayer shawls? Why are women singled out? In Jesus time, women did not cut their hair. Why not impose that as well?. To me it appears to have the same origin and purpose as the burqa. It’s just a matter of degree. It is meant to make women feel more unworthy…and less than a man. Reminds me of wearing a hankie on my head when having to do a job a man would normally do at the kh. Blech!

My questions for the Catholic Church are:
1.Why name Christian Churches after anyone but Christ?
2.What is the Biblical basis for praying to Mary or saints?
3.What is the Biblical basis for the costumes and the formality? In my reading of the New Testament I find early Christian gatherings to be much simpler and pretty informal. Matt 23:5 talks about the fine garments the scribes and Pharisees wore…doesn’t sound like Jesus approved. In fact, I don’t think Jesus himself was too concerned about his own garments…nor does it appear that the apostles were either.
4.What is the Biblical basis for the “Hail Mary” repetitive recitals and the rosary beads?
5.Why do you call priests “Father” when Jesus clearly said not to? Matt 23::9

When I left the jws. I promised myself that I would no longer be a follower of men. I will no longer give any other human authority over my personal relationship with God. It is between Him and me. I don’t look to man for spiritual answers. When the answers come from men, they are subject to change anyway. What Jesus actually taught was quite simple. I have no trouble understanding any of it. Men have been arguing over those teachings for two millennia. Men want to make it complicated so you have to look to them for the answers. Not falling for it. I go right to the source….

Simply put: Knowledge puffs up, love builds up. 1 Cor. 8:1

When you stand before your creator, you stand as an individual, not a group. Do you really think you are going to impress God with your knowledge? Do you really think He is going to judge you by your having all the “ right” answers or “right” doctrine? Do you think he will give you a quiz to see if you have it all figured out or that you found the “right church”? Not me. While I love to worship with other Christians, I just see them as other people, just like me… not as my path to God. The path to God is through Jesus.
“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father, but through me.”
Notice He did not mention a church here. To me, the church Jesus did talk about on other occasions was just made up simply by His followers….organized or not…wherever they are.

Jesus likened our relationship with God to that a father and child. To me that is a description of our relationship with God My father didn’t love or judge me on the basis of how much I knew about him. In fact, I knew precious little about him when I was a small child. (I didn’t understand, for example, what he did for a living, or the daily battles he faced) What I did know was that I could trust him, and that he loved me, and that he would move heaven and earth to protect me. As I grew up I learned more about him. I rebelled against his authority as a teenager. His love never failed me though. He was always there whenever I needed him. He stood by me as long as he lived. No one stood between us. I know that not everyone has that kind of relationship with their father. But for me, my relationship with my dad shows what a relationship with God is all about, just as Jesus said. I am my father’s daughter. I am also a child of God.

For those who think that I’m just out here on my own… that is just what the elders said to me when I challenged them. No, I am not alone. God is my constant companion. If every church on the planet disappeared, my relationship with Him is unaffected.

I had no intention of this being so long…so I’ll end it here.

Coffee
 
mouthy
mouthy 7 years ago

I wish I had said all that Thanks Coffee my thoughts exactly..
Your kinder & more Christian than I
 
BurnTheShips
BurnTheShips 7 years ago


There is a Catholic Church here that is still conducted in Latin.
One of the masses at my church is the Tridentine (Latin) mass. It is held in the chapel (smaller than the main church). Those that want to go to the traditional mass go, and the rest come to the mass in English. Some Catholics enjoy the traditional Mass. We also have a mass given in Spanish. From what I understand, the readings and the homily are given in English. It is the "Mass part" itself that is done in Latin. Everyone understands all the parts and what they mean. I have been thinking of going myself just to experience the Latin mass. My Jewish friends go to synagogue, a large part of their liturgy is held in their liturgical language: Hebrew. Is this evil? I have been to a Maronite (Lebanese) rite church, and the Lebanese Catholic liturgy is in Aramaic. The old Roman Catholic rite was of course in Latin. Many Eastern Catholic churches have their mass rites in Greek, just like many of the Orthodox do.


My questions for the Catholic Church are:

Why name Christian Churches after anyone but Christ?

Why not? It was always simply the Church. The Catholic (universal) Church, before Christianity started to be divided. Walk into a Catholic church and look behind the altar, you will always see an image of Jesus there.


What is the Biblical basis for praying to Mary or saints?
What is the Biblical basis for the costumes and the formality? In my reading of the New Testament I find early Christian gatherings to be much simpler and pretty informal. Matt 23:5 talks about the fine garments the scribes and Pharisees wore…doesn’t sound like Jesus approved. In fact, I don’t think Jesus himself was too concerned about his own garments…nor does it appear that the apostles were either.
What is the Biblical basis for the “Hail Mary” repetitive recitals and the rosary beads?

Our worship is not 100% contained in the Bible, despite this, it is not against the Bible. There is nothing wrong with this. The Bible is not a comprehensive compendium of Christian teaching. It was never mean to be, it was always a collection of books written to those who already believed. Also, as Catholics, we believe that the Church is a continuation of Israel. Paul wrote of this in Romans. We are grafted in. We see that the worship of Israel also included liturgical garments, and ritual. The first Christians met in Synagogues (until they were cast out) and the sacred liturgy is a continuation of the liturgy of the Jews of the time of Jesus. In fact, they are remarkably similar in many ways, as I myself have experienced from visiting synagogues and temples.
Let me ask you. Where does the Bible say that it is the only rule of the Christian faith? Another question: which body decided what books were to compose the Christian Bible and which do not?

1.Why do you call priests “Father” when Jesus clearly said not to? Matt 23::9

Due to a lack of time, I will simply point you to this link.
Maybe one of the other Catholics on this board can respond to the rest of your posting. But as a Catholic, my relationship with God is no less direct than yours.
BTS
 
yesidid
yesidid 7 years ago

Thank you Coffee. Your post was very compelling.
It would take pages to list the problems in the Catholic Church.
I thought of doing it but quite frankly do not have the interest.
Thinking of, and doing positive things is more appealing to me.
And to get one thing straight...............I am talking about the Church and it's teachings not the misguided followers.
I have Catholic friends I love dearly, just as I love misguided JW frineds and relatives.

yesidid
 
coffee_black
coffee_black 7 years ago

Thanks BTS. I am sure your relationship with God is as direct as mine. I am not implying otherwise. My boyfriend is a Catholic, and we go to Mass sometimes. I do not doubt the sincerity. I can worship there as well as anywhere... including under the stars.
Another question: which body decided what books were to compose the Christian Bible and which do not?
I know that the Catholic Church had a major role in deciding what to include in the Bible. I am not sure I agree with their choices. Maybe all of the original texts should be included....I think that's a matter of control. As a Christian I would like access to all of the information available about Christ. It has only been in recent years that that information has become available. Please don't take offense, but that question reminded me of jws who ask "well just where did you get your Bible knowledge from"? I do not think the Bible is the only rule for Christian faith. I believe Holy Spirit guides a Christian....and that is more about a Relationship with God than about written words.
I would still like to know where the origin of praying to Mary and the saints comes from. You didn't really explain that... did they just decide it was ok to do that? How did that come about?
I believe in an afterlife too. I have Christian loved ones who have died. I don't pray to them though.
I still don't understand why one would name a Christian Church by another name than Christ. Isn't that in itself a way to honor a man rather than God? Doesn't that divide? 1 Cor 1"|: 12 Some of you are saying, "I am a follower of Paul." Others are saying, "I follow Apollos," or "I follow Peter ,*" or "I follow only Christ ." 2 13 Can Christ be divided into pieces? Was I, Paul, crucified for you? Were any of you baptized in the name of Paul?"
Why cloud the issue? It is not Peter or Paul or anyone other than Christ who gives salvation. My opinion... but that has always bothered me.
I didn't say that a service conducted in Latin is evil. I am saying that it is pointless to go to a service where you can't understand what is being said. I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood. The kids went to Hebrew school...and learned the language. So when they went to Temple, they understood what was being said. Comparing that to a Christian service conducted in Latin doesn't make any sense to me. Isn't understanding the message important?
No comment on the veil?
I'll go to your link about calling a priest Father in a little while. Just had dinner... going to relax a while.
Coffee
 
Amazing
Amazing 7 years ago

Coffee_black,
On the other extreme, many feel safer, somehow, when they can give over their spirituality to a group, or leader, and they surrender their trust to that entity. That, to me, is a blueprint for tragedy. The only one who I surrender to is Jesus.
Excellent ... this is why I returned to Catholicism ... I no longer surrender my trust to an entity as a Catholic ... only to Christ. Unfortunately, too many people superimpose Watchtower-ism upon Catholicism ... a very unfortunate misunderstanding. I appreciate the kind way that you dealt with the above issue ... I just feel the clarification is important.
I am not sure I agree with their choices. Maybe all of the original texts should be included....I think that's a matter of control. As a Christian I would like access to all of the information available about Christ.
They are available ... and it is not a matter of control ... the Church and scholars debated for centuries, between the 4th and 8th century as to what should be considered inspired text or not. It was the Catholic Church that decided that the NT should be compiled, as no one else was going to do it. It was not about control - that is a myth of those that dislike the Church. However, ALL of the information is available, either through the Church on line, in their literal libraries, or you can get it from non-Catholic sources. When you see the other gospels and and epistles, you can see why Rome and Constantinople excluded them. The Gospel of Thomas is my favorite example of a good reason why it should not be in the Bible.
Also, The King James Bible removed seven books that Rome has in the Bible (and are still there) so you need to read the Catholic Douay-Rheims Bible to get these additional books. The KJ originally had the extra books, and removed them in a subsequent revision in 1611AD. Rome is hiding nothing nor making it hard to get if you want it.
Thanks.
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Coffee, I'd be happy to answer every one of your questions, if you're really interested. But would you like me to do them here or to PM you? I don't know that everyone else wants to read through the answers. If they are really interested, I'd be happy to post the answers here.
Just let me know.
St. Ann
 
Robdar
Robdar 7 years ago


Robdar, you obviously don't read what I say about JWs. They don't have the truth either. Oh, but I can't say that because I don't know who has "The Truth".
I know when something is wrong or untrue. I don't need to know what absolute truth and right is in order to make my first statement.
I could look at a forgery and say it isn't true, real. I don't have to be an art expert to make that truthful statement,
Sure, babe. Whatever.
 
Amazing
Amazing 7 years ago

Coffee ... I am starting a new post titled, 'Myths about the Church - to Coffee' It is directed to you because the questions are yours, but I want a new thread because this one has gotten way too long, and I think some fresh attention to your questions is good. I hope that I am right.
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

Robdar, I'm sure you understand what I'm saying and what I'm not saying. You might be stubborn but you aren't stupid.
This thread has been most interesting. I appreciate that we can reason with one another, discuss our differences and still be friends.
Coffee, I'm glad you contributed here.
 
StAnn
StAnn 7 years ago

Amazing, where's the new thread? I'll post some explanations to it later today.
St. Ann
 
Amazing
Amazing 7 years ago

St.Ann.
I am working on it as I write this ... and it will be up in a while ...
 
coffee_black
coffee_black 7 years ago

StAnn,
Of course I am interested in your answers. Please post them or pm them...whatever you are more comfortable with.
Amazing
Great idea!
BTS
I still intend to read and comment on your link. I haven't yet. Got distracted last night and didn't get to it. Today is a gorgeous day here, so I'm going to go enjoy it with my sweetheart... so I may not get to it today.
Mouthy (((((((((((Hugs))))))))))))) You are the bestest!
This has turned out to be a very interesting thread! Thanks Minimus for starting it!
Coffee
 
Robdar
Robdar 7 years ago


I could look at a forgery and say it isn't true, real. I don't have to be an art expert to make that truthful statement,
Robdar, I'm sure you understand what I'm saying and what I'm not saying. You might be stubborn but you aren't stupid.
Actually, Min, I didn't want to point out that your reasoning was false.
How can you know a forgery without knowing what a true dollar bill, painting, or signature looks like? So, you made my point: You cannot know that which is false without knowing that which is true.
I am sure you understand what I'm saying and not saying. You may be stubborn but you aren't stupid.
 
BurnTheShips
BurnTheShips 7 years ago

I still intend to read and comment on your link. I haven't yet. Got distracted last night and didn't get to it. Today is a gorgeous day here, so I'm going to go enjoy it with my sweetheart... so I may not get to it today.
No problem Coffee. It is a beautiful day down here in Florida too. Have fun! Peace.
BTS
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

You don't have to be 100% knowledgeable on a subject in order to *know* something isn't right.
I'm no expert on $100 bills but I may very well be able to spot a phony.
I have some knowledge of $100 bills and religion but I don't claim to be an expert on anything but I know when something isn't right.
 
minimus
minimus 7 years ago

Just a thought....a person may THINK they KNOWwhat is true and they may be very wrong in their understanding. They may even conclude they know what is "false" based upon their own self deception.
 
Dagney
Dagney 7 years ago

"The only thing I know for sure is that we live and that we die."
- Sister Wendy Beckett
I'm with her.
 

«
 1
 2
 …
 4
 5
 6
 7
 8
 9
 10
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
out of all mainstream religions, roman catholicism seems to be the most cultic to me, even more so than jehovah's witnesses in certain ways.. the belief in transubstantiation , i think that's how it's spelled, is weird!
the attire of the clergy is satanic looking.
the view of papal authority is not that much different than a jw's view of "the slave".. .



Related Topics
Cota Samuel
My experience with religion
by Cota Samuel 4 months ago
Terry
A POP QUIZ about the origin of "NEW LIGHT"
by Terry a month ago
Terry
ARE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES SUSPICIOUS, CYNICAL and WRONG? IF SO, WHY?
by Terry 9 days ago
Greybeard
The KEY WORD in Isaiah 44:25-26 is "Predictions" and the apostles NEVER made any predictions setting dates.
by Greybeard 3 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo a month ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/174436/does-roman-catholicism-teach-truth?page=9&size=20





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Does Roman Catholicism Teach The "Truth"?
/  





 

Does Roman Catholicism Teach The "Truth"?
by minimus 7 years ago 180 Replies latest 7 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 …
 4
 5
 6
 7
 8
 9
 10
 »
5
10
20
Amazing
Amazing 7 years ago

OK ... my new post is up. I needed to edit it ... and some of my formatting would not change, so it may look peculiar on some of your screens ... but the responses all posted just fine.
Coffee, I hope that it came out well ... and if we need to, let's dialog more on my responses. I also look forward to repsonses by BTS, St.Ann, and others.
Thanks!
 

«
 1
 2
 …
 4
 5
 6
 7
 8
 9
 10
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
out of all mainstream religions, roman catholicism seems to be the most cultic to me, even more so than jehovah's witnesses in certain ways.. the belief in transubstantiation , i think that's how it's spelled, is weird!
the attire of the clergy is satanic looking.
the view of papal authority is not that much different than a jw's view of "the slave".. .



Related Topics
Cota Samuel
My experience with religion
by Cota Samuel 4 months ago
Terry
A POP QUIZ about the origin of "NEW LIGHT"
by Terry a month ago
Terry
ARE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES SUSPICIOUS, CYNICAL and WRONG? IF SO, WHY?
by Terry 9 days ago
Greybeard
The KEY WORD in Isaiah 44:25-26 is "Predictions" and the apostles NEVER made any predictions setting dates.
by Greybeard 3 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo a month ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/174436/does-roman-catholicism-teach-truth?page=10&size=20






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Anyone a Practicing Catholic?
/  





 

Anyone a Practicing Catholic?
by lovelylil2 5 years ago 13 Replies latest 5 years ago   jw friends
5
10
20
lovelylil2
lovelylil2 5 years ago

If so, would you mind helping me gain some information on Catholic Beliefs. I left Roman Catholicism when I was a teen but have been researching the beliefs and practices of all the major churches and this is the one I am working on now. There is a lot of conflicting information out there both for and against the church, as with all religions I guess. And I admit I don't have a very good knowlege of the Catholic faith, so I thought I would go to the source and "speak" with those who are of this faith group.
I have a few Q's I would like to ask practicing Catholics such as;
What is the difference between "regular" Catholics and Roman Catholics?
Is calling the Pope "holy father" a requirement for becoming a Catholic or can you view him as just the head of the Catholic church?
Can adults convert to Catholisim?
what are the main doctrines of the Catholic faith?
As JW's we were taught that Catholics do not use the bible or know how to use it, is this true according to your observation?
Does anyone know of a website that can answer these Q's, also I welcome personal comments from practicing catholics. This is purely for research and I have no intention of putting down the Catholic church or anyone's beliefs. Do not want to debate the validity of the beliefs or anything like that. This is just for my informational purpose and curiosity.
I've been studying all the churches for a few years now and am taking biblical studies courses. Thanks in advance for your help. Peace, Lilly
P.S. Any good books out there on the practices of the Catholic church and their origins?
 
blondie
blondie 5 years ago

Add this:
What does a practicing Catholic have to do to become a nonpracticing Catholic?
What does a Catholic have to do to be excommunicated? Are they shunned?
 
Black Sheep
Black Sheep 5 years ago

Try this forum
http://www.catholicxjw.com/
 
blondie
blondie 5 years ago

black sheep, would that reflect the personal answer from a Catholic posting here or one in our area?
 
Black Sheep
Black Sheep 5 years ago

I don't think there is a whole lot of Catholics currently posting here. I can only think of St Ann. There was an ordained priest here when I first joined, but I haven't seen him around for years. He also posted at catholicxjw.com
It'll be interesting to see how many put their hands up.
 
PSacramento
PSacramento 5 years ago

There are other types of catholics besides Roman Catholics.
I was a RC but I am now far close to "old" catholic than RC.
I don't accept the authority or subscribe to the doctrine of the Pope being infalliable so I can't be a RC, though the majority of RC I know don't do those things either.
 
BurnTheShips
BurnTheShips 5 years ago

Anyone a Practicing Catholic?
*raises hand*
What is the difference between "regular" Catholics and Roman Catholics?
There are several catholic churches. The Latin Rite Church is Roman catholic. There are also other self-governing catholic churches that are in full communion with one another and the Roman church, all are Catholic, even if the liturgy and governance is different among them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Catholic_Churches
Is calling the Pope "holy father" a requirement for becoming a Catholic or can you view him as just the head of the Catholic church?
It is not a requirement.
Can adults convert to Catholisim?
Yes. I did.
what are the main doctrines of the Catholic faith?
There is one God, the Father, who created everything.
There is one saviour, Jesus Christ the Son of God, through whom all things were created.
Jesus came down from heaven, and born of the Virgin Mary in human form.
He was crucified and died. He rose on the third day and ascended to heaven.
Jesus will come again at the end of history and his kingdom will be eternal.
The dead will be resurrected.
The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, and is worshipped as God along with the Father and the Son.
There is one body of Christ, founded by Jesus. This is the Church.
There is one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
As JW's we were taught that Catholics do not use the bible or know how to use it, is this true according to your observation?
I know some Catholics that are very knowledgable about the Bible. However, I know many that are not. A typical JW will be much better at using the Bible, even though they misinterpret it.
Does anyone know of a website that can answer these Q's, also I welcome personal comments from practicing catholics. This is purely for research and I have no intention of putting down the Catholic church or anyone's beliefs. Do not want to debate the validity of the beliefs or anything like that. This is just for my informational purpose and curiosity.
http://www.catholicxjw.com/
http://www.catholic.com/
http://forums.catholic.com/
BTS
 
Libelle
Libelle 5 years ago

Not a practicing Catholic, but "recovering" much of my family still is. I went to Catholic School from K-7th grade - complete with plaid uniform jumper and all...
What is the difference between "regular" Catholics and Roman Catholics?
Nothing. Catholic is Catholic, Roman Catholic is usually shortened to Catholic by most people. There are folks who are more traditional (as in women needing to wear head coverings, masses still in Latin, and priest facing the away from the congregation - lots of other Pre-Vatican II stuff), I think they have a specific name, but I cannot remember it.

Is calling the Pope "holy father" a requirement for becoming a Catholic or can you view him as just the head of the Catholic church?
Well that's what the RCC calls him. The individual may or may not call him that, but it expected that you will believe him to be so.
Can adults convert to Catholisim?
Yeap- look up RCIA those are the classes one takes to become Catholic. WHile you're studying you're called a catechumen (we always jokes that it was like you're subhuman haha) and escorted from mass before the Liturgy of the Eucharist.
what are the main doctrines of the Catholic faith?
That's awfully long to put in one post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_doctrine
As JW's we were taught that Catholics do not use the bible or know how to use it, is this true according to your observation?
Well, JW's don't think anyone but them know/use the bible. RC's think they know the bible properly too. The masses have readings from the bible. First reading is from the OT, Second from a non-gospel NT (usually Paul) and the Gospel reading, well that's self explanatory. You can read the bible all you want, too. In Catholic school we had classes that centered on this story or that.
Does anyone know of a website that can answer these Q's, also I welcome personal comments from practicing catholics. This is purely for research and I have no intention of putting down the Catholic church or anyone's beliefs. Do not want to debate the validity of the beliefs or anything like that. This is just for my informational purpose and curiosity.
I"m sure there's a website, but I don't know it. I used to love reading about the saints as a kid - made "being holy" seem more humanly achievable - plus, I've always loved a good story.

From Blondie:
What does a practicing Catholic have to do to become a nonpracticing Catholic?
Just stop going really. I mean I guess I'm officially a non-practicing Catholic. I never took my name off any records. ANd well you never forget the stand-sit-kneel, responses and songs - that gets ingrained into you. I've been to mass about 6 times in the past 10 years, and I still remember every bit. THat part never leaves you. ha

What does a Catholic have to do to be excommunicated? Are they shunned?
I don't know about that, it's not as easy as being disfellowshipped. There some pretty bad behaviors amongst Catholics. Hell my grandparents used to go to horse races with the Monsignor (a priest who's more elevated thanother priest but not bishop). IME The RC is relatively lenient.
 
man in black
man in black 5 years ago

This has helped me out ::

http://www.catholicscomehome.org/
 
lovelylil2
lovelylil2 5 years ago

Just got in from work. I am going to read these posts and respond in a few hours. thanks everyone. Lilly
 
Black Sheep
Black Sheep 5 years ago

Amazing doesn't post very often now. He started an interesting thread a couple of years ago that scrapped a few of my WT induced illusions about the Catholic Church.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/157743/1/Dispelling-Watchtower-Myths-of-RC-Beliefs
 
lovelylil2
lovelylil2 5 years ago

Thank you so much BTS, You gave me lots of great information.
Also thanks to Libella, Man in Black and Black sheep. I appreciate all the help. I am going to look at all the information more closely tomarrow because I have the day off. Also will visit the websites.
The reason I am especially interested in the Catholic church is my entire family is Catholic and I was raised a Catholic. But, I am realizing fairly recently that I really never fully understood Catholic beliefs and practices. I think its because my parents were not really practicing Catholics.
And of course when you become a witness, you are part of a group that HATEs the Catholic church more than any other churches. Its funny though how many JWs were once Catholic!
I remember Amazing Jim. He tried to convince me that the trinity is biblical and I gave him such a hard time. Funny thing is now a year later, and I am a Trinitarian. I'm sure he would get a good laugh at that one. I guess I just had to come to the conclusion that the trinity is a valid teaching on my own.
Thanks again everyone, peace to all of you, Lilly
 
GLTirebiter
GLTirebiter 5 years ago

Lilly, I was raised Catholic and returned to the Church after a long absence. I'll do my best to answer your questions.

What is the difference between "regular" Catholics and Roman Catholics?
The Greek, Russian, and some other Orthodox faiths are also considered Catholic, but do not recognize Vatican leadership nor share Communion with the Roman Catholic Church. Some Eastern Rite churches are in communion with the Roman Catholic Church, with common doctrine and faith but different worship liturgy. This includes the Byzantine Church, among others. There also are "Anglican Ordinate" congregations that have rejoined the Roman Catholic church, while retaining their own bishops and priests, and using worship liturgy based on Anglican practices.
Is calling the Pope "holy father" a requirement for becoming a Catholic or can you view him as just the head of the Catholic church?
It is traditional (with a small "t") to use that term of respect when referring to the successor of St. Peter. Using the phrase "holy father" is not, as far as I know, a matter of doctrine (a doctrinal "Tradition", with a capital "T").
Can adults convert to Catholisim?
Yes. Prospective converts normally go through a series of classes leading to the Rites of Christian Initiation for Adults (RCIA): Baptism, Eucharist (Holy Communion) and Confirmation. Baptism is not repeated for those who have received any valid Christian baptism: one using water (any amount from a splash on the forehead to total immersion) and using the Trinitarian form of Matthew 28:19. Unlike most Protestant baptisms, Jehovah's Witness baptisms do not use the Trinitarian form, thus the Catholic Church would not consider JW baptism valid.
what are the main doctrines of the Catholic faith?
The short versions are the Apostles' Creed and the Nicene Creed. The long version is the Catechism of the Catholic Church (the adult version, not the Baltimore Catechism for Children you might remember from elementary school days). Significant differences between Catholic and Protestant doctrines include Apostolic Succession from the Apostles and St. Peter to present-day bishops and the Pope, and Transubstantiation of sacramental bread and wine into the actual body and blood of Christ (John 6), not mere symbolic emblems.
As JW's we were taught that Catholics do not use the bible or know how to use it, is this true according to your observation?
It varies from person to person. Catholics are taught and encouraged to read the Bible, but aren't forced to, so with people being human some do, some don't, and most are in between. Each Sunday Mass begins with four scripture passages addressing a common theme: in order, a reading from the Old Testament (except Psalms), a selection of Psalms (sung), a reading from the New Testament (other than the Gospels), and finishing with the Gospel reading. Each reading is in context and uninterrupted; commentary is reserved for the homily following the Gospel reading.
The Bible was a required text in the Catholic schools I attended, including a class dedicated to the history of the Bible (Jerome's Vulgate, different vernacular translations, etc.).
"Know how to use it" is a loaded phrase, because different faiths use the Bible in different ways. Catholic teaching is to learn the message of scripture as a whole, not a word-for-word literal interpretation. That is consistent with not being limited to one "official" Bible translation: English-speaking Catholics read the RSV, NRSV, NJB, NAB, the old Douay-Rhiems version, even the KJV (with the deuterocanonical books). "The best Bible translation is one that you will read."
Does anyone know of a website that can answer these Q's, also I welcome personal comments from practicing catholics.
The simplest answer works well: www.catholic.com. The comparison chart at religoustolerance.org is a good introduction, and is relatively unbiased (imo).
For Blondie's additions:
What does a practicing Catholic have to do to become a nonpracticing Catholic?
Just stop going to Mass and receiving the sacraments. There is no JC, no writing a DA letter, no announcement to the congregation. Returning is almost as easy: register with the local parish, repent yor sins, and make a good confession. There's no sitting alone in the back row, no being the congregation pariah nobody wants to talk to, no probation period before being considered a full, worthy member of the congregation. Instead, it's "We're glad that you came back!".
What does a Catholic have to do to be excommunicated?
To be formally excommunicated, quite a lot. It generally involves scandal, publicly presenting oneself as Catholic while also publicly, unrepentingly engaging in gravefully sinful behavior.
Knowingly committing particularly grave sins is considered to be excommunicating yourself, without any formal proceedings. This includes procuring or performing an abortion.
Are they shunned?
No, that is not Catholic teaching. We must not participate in or abet the sinful behavior, but neither is it our place to punish the sinner. We are to lovingly encourage the sinner's reformation. Use the carrot, not the stick: "hate the sin, love the sinner."
 
lovelylil2
lovelylil2 5 years ago

Thanks GL. Peace, Lilly
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
OrphanCrow
The Jehovah's Witnesses, the Royal Commission and the Catholic Church
by OrphanCrow 7 months ago
KiddingMe
Police: Teen killed in N.Y. church assault wanted out
by KiddingMe 5 months ago
Terry
The "Wound" may soon be healed? (The split between Orthodox and Catholic)
by Terry a month ago
Defianttruth
Help to build a "Guide to Your New Faith"
by Defianttruth a month ago
Esse quam videri
Is the Watchtower Society following in the footsteps of the Catholic Church?
by Esse quam videri a month ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/199543/anyone-practicing-catholic





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Did you go on a spiritual quest?
/  





 

Did you go on a spiritual quest?
by rebel8 7 years ago 22 Replies latest 7 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20
rebel8
rebel8 7 years ago

I sure did!
Childhood: Roman Catholic -> fundie Bible thumper born again "alcohol is evil, non-whites are bad" type -> jw (abhorred the latter 2)
Adulthood:
Checked out but didn't join--Buddhism, Hinduism, Voodoo, Wicca, Paganism, Greek mythology, Italian folk magic, Quakers, several Native American traditions.
Joined--Roman Catholicism (again) -> Secular Humanism [I still am an official member of both and that's where I'll forever stay.]
 
snowbird
snowbird 7 years ago

I did!
Now, I'm full circle back to the Bible, but still questing.
It's a never-ending journey.
Sylvia
 
BurnTheShips
BurnTheShips 7 years ago

I still am an official member of both and that's where I'll forever stay.
Never say forever! The quest should never end.
BTS
 
rebel8
rebel8 7 years ago

But I was on a quest to find the truth. I found it. I'm satisfied. Now I'm focusing my resources on searching for more knowledge and being a good Humanist.
quest
  / kw?st /   Show IPA –noun
1. a search or pursuit made in order to find or obtain something
 
palmtree67
palmtree67 7 years ago

Hi rebel
I'd like to ask you something and my intention is honest wondering, not to belittle your faith:
How do you reconcile backing the Catholic Church with their support of Hitler during WW11?
My ex in-laws were Catholic but I was always afraid to ask them.
I hope my question doesn't offend you.
 
rebel8
rebel8 7 years ago

That is not offensive at all.
I don't reconcile it. I am an atheist (Secular Humanist) and I consider myself to be an Ethnic Catholic. LOL By this I mean it's like Ethnic Jews, it's a big part of my ethnic background but it is not necessarily my religious belief.
I officially rejoined the RC church for several reasons:
◦As part of my journey of healing from dubbery (can't really explain it but I felt like I was apologizing to the church for being so hateful to them when I was a dub, and also becoming the person I would have been if dubs hadn't interfered)
◦For social purposes
◦To get married in the church, I needed to finish my confirmation (this is our cultural tradition and what we wanted)
◦To snub my nose at the dubs (even though I never planned on telling them, just felt fun)
I told the priest I was an atheist and he was totally ok with confirming me. I am on the books as an official member but just do so to go with the flow at family events.
 
Robdar
Robdar 7 years ago


Checked out but didn't join--Buddhism, Hinduism, Voodoo, Wicca, Paganism, Greek mythology, Italian folk magic, Quakers, several Native American traditions.
Yep, I went on quite a quest. I checked out all the above except for Voodoo and Quakers. Add to my list Eckinkar and Urantia as well as a few others.
I went home to Judaism. It is where the East meets the West religion wise.
 
Dagney
Dagney 7 years ago

Boy did I!!!
And me too... I was going to find the REAL truth!!!! LOL.
I read the Bible without religious dogma, (that didn't turn out like I THOUGHT it would), I listen to christian radio as I commuted to work, (many sounded exactly the same as at the KH or convention, only slight differences), I watched some tele-evangelists (was a little afraid of "churches"), I prayed like crazy for wisdom and truth, I sought any means to lose the anger and resentment I had toward the WBTS, listen to a hundred books on spirituality, all sorts, as I commuted to work, looked into Buddhism...oh...just so so many things, too many to remember.
I'm not where I ever thought I would be. I might change again, it ain't over till it's over. I do not have any religion in my life at all and I seem to do quite well without it.
I just don't know.
 
rebel8
rebel8 7 years ago

Robdar, what did you find out about Eckanar?
I almost put that on the list but it didn't even qualify as "checking it out". I watched their paid public tv show once and LMAO. That was enough.
It consisted of one point: Find the light and sound. No other info, just repeating that and rambling on--the same on live tv every week. I believe the guy who does the show has full-blown psychosis. It's painful to watch.
 
Satanus
Satanus 7 years ago

Mine started when i left the wt. I was looking for god. The pentacostalist churches helped somewhat. I read a lot of church history, about the saints, bible commentary. I tried some of the things from the pentacostalists. Some worked, some didn't. Finally, i decided on the direct approach w god, a chanting mediation on him. He didn't show, but my long dead brother did. I read a lot about meditation, mysticism and psychic exercises. As i practiced these, and based on my earlier church time, i concluded that god didn't show because he doesn't exist. My spiritual practices were tied in w my own therapy. I worked at facing my primal pain. One day, while i was working, it came up, and almost killed me. Felt better, after that. Depression slowly lifted. Am in a relative calm, at this time. Still do various spiritual practices, as necesary.
S
 
Satanus
Satanus 7 years ago

Ps, i also checked out eckankar. Went to one of the conferences. Sang huuu. One of their guys went nuts doing their stuff.
S
 
Finally-Free
Finally-Free 7 years ago

After leaving the JWs I waited a couple of years before taking on any spiritual quest. I eventually ended up back with the Catholic church which is how I was raised. I'm not a regular attender, but I do go occasionally.
Most of my "worship" is performed in the "Most Holy", which is my living room where Rocco resides.
W
 
poppers
poppers 7 years ago

I did the following: raised Catholic; learned to meditate and practiced one particular discipline for 9 years, and as a consequence drifted away from organized religion; pursued psychic powers via meditative disciplines and finally gave up on that; investigated and practiced other forms of meditation, chanting, shaktipat (awakened kundalini), pranayama, and japa; returned to Catholicism (got drawn in by the mystical side as exemplified by various "saints"; practiced centering prayer as taught by Father Thomas Keating; drifted away from Catholicism again (something was still felt lacking); and finally discovered nondualism about 10 years ago, which put an end to all searching.
 
Robdar
Robdar 7 years ago


It consisted of one point: Find the light and sound. No other info, just repeating that and rambling on--the same on live tv every week. I believe the guy who does the show has full-blown psychosis. It's painful to watch.
Yeah, Eckankar (I cant believe I mispelled it in my above post--must be a senoir moment.) has some nutty people in it. It also has some genuine believers.
I have always been fascinated by light and sound. I noticed at a young age that everybody, everything, has a sound or a vibrational frequency. And by being very silent, you can tune into this "soul whistle." Eckankar was the first religion I discovered that actually spoke about the universe, God, what-have-you, having a sound. When I would meditate on this sound, the Eck, I would hear some awesome things. I wish I could explain it better but I can't.
Plus, there were many musicians and poets involved with Eckankar and that is always nice. But in the end, Eckankar didn't quite do it for me although I learned much.
 
jaguarbass
jaguarbass 7 years ago

Yes I have been on one my whole life.
I have been searching for my maker and origins, since i have been concious.
I'm pretty sure we are the children of Astronauts from planet Nibiru.
There are 10,000 year old Summerian text that say so. They even made pictures of the rockets
and capsuels and astronauts.
You might thing thats not too spiritual.
But that is where my spiritual quest lead me. I was dissapointed that I didnt find a sky pilot, God.
I was sorry that I looked behind the curtain and saw the Wizard.
But curiosity killed the cat.
But were slaves of the astronauts from Nibiru.
And that is were I have found the most evidence.'
Thats not to say that there is not an unknown power, God beyond our genetic
engineers.
But I havent found any evidence, and they havent given us/ me / mankind any either.
For war fuzzy feelings with out evidence.
I submit that we are all god. Little tiny pieces fragmented off.
We are God or spirit sons of God having material experiences.
Thats what I come up with from 5 trips through the bible cover to cover and reading
all kinds of spiritual writings by gurus and people who are contemplating their navels
and the signifcance of the universe and our existence.

Much of the bible old testament, was taken from the Sumerian text that say we are genetically enginered
slaves of the people from nibiru, who are very much like us.
Adam and Eve, the garden of Eden, the flood.
Except they twisted the truth in the bible.
In the original sumerian text the devil is the Good guy.
Jehovah is our worst nightmare.
If you dont believe me just read the old testament.
 
Heaven
Heaven 7 years ago

I am still on my life quest, which includes spirituality, and I think I always will be. I believe it is part of the journey of life. Unfortunately... or maybe fortunately, we are not born with all the answers. I believe there is a reason for this. That by going through the physical experience of living, searching, and educating ourselves, we discover the real truth... the universal laws of nature... of life. The very things that resonate in one's heart as being principled. Experience is the best teacher.
I do not feel associating or identifying with any one man-made religion or group is going to be the ultimate answer. They are all part of the learning process... the journey. As my brother put it, my relationship with God and Jesus is personal and private. And while I agree with him, I believe at some point, we need to talk to other people about what goes on inside of us. Hence, fellowships and ultimately, organizations are created to fulfil this need. I've always been leary of 'organization' as this is where the human being seems to go off the rails. A hierarchy inevitably follows with levels of power and politics, with principles coming in anywhere from second... to not at all.
My ex feels we are all part of some gigantic lab experiment with earth being the maze and the humans being the mice. It is possible.
My hope is that what we have learned is not lost and that we help others to learn. Heaven
 
Chalam
Chalam 7 years ago

Hi,
I was brought up in a christian home, gave my heart to the Lord at a young age. Come 16 I walked away from the church and spent 20 years trying not to this of anything spiritual. However, the Holy Sprit called me on numerous occasions. I decided to start listening around four years ago and have never regretted the decision since :smile:
Thus I am like the proverbial prodigal son. The Father is looking out for you to return to His house with welcome arms and throw a party :smile: Or the parable of the lost coin or lost sheep, we are precious to the Shepherd, every single one.
All the best,
Stephen
 
WTWizard
WTWizard 7 years ago

My viewpoint is that spirituality is getting answers to explain why life exists and where it is headed. The Bible has done nothing to give me the truth about any of those questions.
If anything, science did a much better job at explaining these mysteries than church, and if those damn regulators keep their grubby paws off the scientists and let them do their jobs, it will be even better. As I see it, the Bible lies and has no correction mechanism.
 
Narkissos
Narkissos 7 years ago

Catholic -> JW -> Protestant -> ? (although I might still be called an "ethnic Catholic" by rebel's standards, never thought of it that way...)
What I find interesting is to consider the JW episode as an integral part of the "quest" rather than a meaningless and empty parenthesis. I was there too, and whatever I have become since I must own up to it as well.
 
AllTimeJeff
AllTimeJeff 7 years ago

What I find interesting is to consider the JW episode as an integral part of the "quest" rather than a meaningless and empty parenthesis. I was there too, and whatever I have become since I must own up to it as well.
This thought really resonated with me Narkissos. That is essentially how I have viewed my involvement.
There are times where I want to pretend I never was a JW. But I can't do that. I think it healthy to own all parts of my JW involvement.
After going through the angry atheist phase, I find myself really paying attention to the spiritual aspect of my personality. I sense it a healthier, less angry approach.
I guess certain New Age takes on spirituality have resonated with me. I read the "Celestine Prophecy". There is a lot of what I consider "bunk" in it, but some interesting thoughts as well. Scott Peck wrote an article a long time ago on the 4 stages of spirituality. I thought there were great observations in that essay....
What I am trying to incorporate is my committment to 100% intellectual honesty, what science proves, with my own personal observation that science cannot quantify quality of life improvements with those who worship.
Life isn't just about scientific facts. However, theism really does drown out doubt, and its useful utility. One thing Pecks article brought out that I agree with is that often, an atheist/agnostic is more developed spiritually, simply because they don't take everything offered about "god" and "worship" at face value. That doubt is actually a step in forward spiritual development.
Thats where I am at right now.....
 

«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
Wild_Thing
Why is this scripture blank in some bibles and not in others? It is blank in the JW bible, too.
by Wild_Thing 10 months ago
rosesinbloom
David Splane address bethelites
by rosesinbloom 9 months ago
Wonderment
How credible are NWT critiques? A look at Allin's evaluation of Jn 8:58.
by Wonderment a month ago
Wonderment
How credible are NWT's critiques?: Allin and John 8:58. (2)
by Wonderment a month ago
Island Man
How the Bible disproves the JWs' 1914 invisible presence doctrine.
by Island Man 2 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/174878/did-you-go-on-spiritual-quest






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Did you go on a spiritual quest?
/  





 

Did you go on a spiritual quest?
by rebel8 7 years ago 22 Replies latest 7 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20
Narkissos
Narkissos 7 years ago

Good points ATJ.
What I said about the JW episode I could have said just as well about the move to "atheism" (a good measure of which is included in my own "?"). I don't mean (as some theistic apologists claim) that atheism as and of itself is a religious stance. I think in most cases it is not. But it can certainly be deemed a part of a "religious" experience, especially when coming from traditional theism; construed, not as a loss of "faith" but as "faith" (admittedly of a deeply personal kind) outgrowing the notion of "God".
[A philosophical theist would of course reply that "God" is not a notion and then cannot be outgrown (by Anselm's negative definition for instance, if God is that which nothing greater can be thought -- not sure of the English syntax here, lol; in Latin aliquid quo nihil majus cogitari possit), and I would not argue with that. I would perhaps only point out that practically both stances (affirmation and negation of "God") have to coexist for such an absolute to be maintained -- that any idea (idol) conceived under the name of "God" must be systematically denied for "God" to be "more"; at that point imo atheism and negative theology meet. But I digress... :smile:]
Anyway whether (and however far or long) you choose to play the game of reinterpreting your inherited religious vocabulary (including "God," "faith," "spiritual quest" of whatever) or cut the Gordian knot (which you can only do partly, I feel) it is still the same story continuing.
 
AllTimeJeff
AllTimeJeff 7 years ago

Anyway whether (and however far or long) you choose to play the game of reinterpreting your inherited religious vocabulary (including "God," "faith," "spiritual quest" of whatever) or cut the Gordian knot (which you can only do partly, I feel) it is still the same story continuing.
I had to laugh at the Gordian knot comment, which is very applicable to my own spiritual quest lately. I seem to be more and more on a path of adjusting the location of the knot on any given day as opposed to trying to cut it altogether.
Having said that, your point about ones spiritual quest, moving from theism to atheism et al being a continuation of the same story is so true.
In the last 2 months, I have been to about 7 church services, split between the Episcopal and Unitarian churches. (they are both rather liberal branches of worship, which is important to me) Truthfully, I got little out of both. Unitarians are very accepting of everyone and everything. I might go back, I have to think about it. Episcopalians, which my wife calls "Catholic lite" is heavily liturgical, which is the furtherst thing from what I am used to.
Yet, that liturgy means so much to those raised in that tradition.
One thing I have taken away is that church and the satisfying of ones "spiritual need" is directly proportional to ones emotional needs.
In other words, even if people go to church to please god in the best way they know how, it is what they get out of it emotionally that keeps one coming back. If it makes you feel better, you will continue to attend church as it satisfies that spiritual/emotional need.
I have recently worked through this in my own mind, and it makes sense. Seeing the comfort at the Episcopal service that those received from their memorized chants and prayers was fascinating to me.
For me, trying to rationalize my desire for intellectual honesty with my spiritual need is difficult until I apply this "emotional" variable to the formula. It is something I am still fleshing out.
 
quietlyleaving
quietlyleaving 7 years ago

yup I most definitely went on a spiritual quest and Rebel8, I guess I too am an ethno catholic - I wonder if my ethno catholicity conferred itself to my JW born in children. If so then I guess they have the subconscious awareness that some things are mysterious and unkowable and this perhaps is gifting them the ability to engage with alien ideas - we live in hope - my daughter does have this ability in spades and part of it seems to have come from my hubby's family heritage.
"Gordian knots" - that caught my eye and got me thinking along the lines of bringing in the alien, mysterious and unknowable from my own family tree.
here is a nugget from wiki (such a mine of info)
(this is just one understanding of the gordian knot and what it can mean)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordian_Knot

Interpretations
The knot may in fact have been a religious knot-cipher guarded by Gordian's priests and priestesses. Robert Graves suggested [ 6 ] that it may have symbolized the ineffable name of Dionysus that, enknotted like a cipher, would have been passed on through generations of priests and revealed only to the kings of Phrygia.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysus
In the cut and paste below I've taken snippets to whet anyone's apetite for reading the whole article if curious about the human condition and the paths others have taken.


re the cult of dionysius
The geographical origins of his cult were unknown to the classical Greeks, but almost all myths depicted him as having "foreign" origins: typical of the god of the epiphany, "the god that comes". . .
The divine mission of Dionysus was to mingle the music of the aulos and to bring an end to care and worry. [ 3 ] Scholars have discussed Dionysus' relationship to the "cult of the souls" and his ability to preside over communication between the living and the dead. [
... The geographical origins of his cult were unknown to the classical Greeks, but almost all myths depicted him as having "foreign" origins: typical of the god of the epiphany, "the god that comes".
...we are dealing not with the historical memory of a cult that is foreign, but with a god in whom foreignness is inherent. And indeed, Dionysus's name, as mentioned above, is found on MyceneanLinear B tablets as "DI-WO-NI-SO-JO", [ 8 ] and Karl Kerenyi [ 9 ] traces him to Minoan Crete, where his Minoan name is unknown but his characteristic presence is recognizable. Clearly, Dionysus had been with the Greeks and their predecessors a long time, and yet always retained the feel of something alien.
 
 

«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
childhood: roman catholic -> fundie bible thumper born again "alcohol is evil, non-whites are bad" type -> jw (abhorred the latter 2).
adulthood:.
checked out but didn't join--buddhism, hinduism, voodoo, wicca, paganism, greek mythology, italian folk magic, quakers, several native american traditions.. joined--roman catholicism (again) -> secular humanism [i still am an official member of both and that's where i'll forever stay.



Related Topics
Wild_Thing
Why is this scripture blank in some bibles and not in others? It is blank in the JW bible, too.
by Wild_Thing 10 months ago
rosesinbloom
David Splane address bethelites
by rosesinbloom 9 months ago
Wonderment
How credible are NWT critiques? A look at Allin's evaluation of Jn 8:58.
by Wonderment a month ago
Wonderment
How credible are NWT's critiques?: Allin and John 8:58. (2)
by Wonderment a month ago
Island Man
How the Bible disproves the JWs' 1914 invisible presence doctrine.
by Island Man 2 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/174878/did-you-go-on-spiritual-quest?page=2&size=20






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ If JWs Are A Cult, I Believe Roman Catholicism Is Too
/  





 

If JWs Are A Cult, I Believe Roman Catholicism Is Too
by minimus 11 years ago 45 Replies latest 11 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 3
 »
 5
10
20
minimus
minimus 11 years ago

I believe that Jehovah's Witnesses are a "cult". To be a "good Roman Catholic" you have to be "cultic", that's for sure! Their beliefs and practices, rites and ceremonies are simply weird! To be fair, JWs aren't the only cults around.
 
mkr32208
mkr32208 11 years ago


I'm gonna file this in my "Ummm, duh, no sh*t folder...."



 
Satanus
Satanus 11 years ago


Prove it.
S
 
minimus
minimus 11 years ago

Read the dictionary definition.
 
Satanus
Satanus 11 years ago


Why not put the definition here, and correlate each point w examples? Then, start on the nt, since the catholics put it together. Then do the ot chosen people. Heh heh.
S
 
minimus
minimus 11 years ago

The Roman Catholics (the diehards) have the craziest beliefs. If you don't accept them, you're put to death on a stake......Ooops, that's what the cult used to do.
 
franklin J
franklin J 11 years ago


Interesting observation, Min
as we all know, Catholicism has had its share of murder and mayhem. The history of THAT Church reads like an ABC movie of the week soap opera.
But from my vantage from sharing in both of these religions ( JW and Catholicism); I can say that Catholicism is ; today a different religion than it was 500 years ago ( or even 40 years ago) and light years different from our old JW alma mater.
Just for a brief starter:
1) The Catholic Church runs Catholic Charities; not for profit and distributes food and supplies to ANYONE; irregardless of religion. This is an international charity.
2) The Catholics do not routinely come after you and "excommunicate" ( contrary to popular belief).
3) The local Catholic Church I attend with my family is more of a "social" gathering. No one kneels; crosses themselves, or believes that the Pope is infallible. And they openly discuss and are free to disagree with the Vatican. Heck, the Priest also speaks his mind. But in their hearts they have a faith in their religion. Despite the bad press with the Pedophile issues ( which they all condemn the church for not taking a harder stand against their priests), they are Catholics.
4) The Catholic faith promotes secular education. The Jesuit Order of priests have some of the best secular education that the American Culture has to offer. Fairfield University in Fairfield Connecticut is one clear example.
I could go on and on....no excuses though, the history of the Catholic church is ugly; but the contemporary church, in my experiece and opinion is bearable. I do not believe any of its teachings and tolerate it simply because my wife was raised and still is Catholic.
Frank
 
minimus
minimus 11 years ago

You're not describing true Roman Catholicism, Frank.
 
jaffacake
jaffacake 11 years ago

As someone brought up a catholic, I agree with franklin. I believe they were a cult in history, but don't even qualify for high control group status these days. My sis-in-law is terminally ill and her priest has been out to see her. He told her how important it is to believe in God and his son Jesus, and then said no one, not even the pope really knows for sure what happens to us when we die...Having chatted to this guy, modern catholicism struggles to even qualify as dogmatic.
 
Satanus
Satanus 11 years ago


While the church did kill, it showed flexibility, which cults do not. The church made many adaptations in order to accomodate pagan celebrations and wild natures of it's target people. For instance the order of knights was started as a place for renegades and debtors in order to tame and use their wild natures for the benefit of the church and/or the king. You already know about the pagan stuff overlayed w christian stories to make them christian.
S
 
minimus
minimus 11 years ago

Just because a group is not considered "high control", it doesn't mean it isn't cultic.
 
JamesThomas
JamesThomas 11 years ago

My definition of a cult is very broad and includes every thing which entraps us within a belief system that takes our focus of attention away from this moment of existence (the only truth we have).
In other words a cult would be that which supports and reinforces a conceptual, abstract and illusional reality.
 
Satanus
Satanus 11 years ago


Aww mini, don't be so cultic
S
 
iiz2cool
iiz2cool 11 years ago


I think it depends on the individual. In any group you'll find some who are given to extremes. I was a catholic before I was a JW, and to most it was just a sunday religion. Then there are the fanatics, like my sister who is trying to convert me back to catholicism. She lives and breathes her religion, worse than any JW I ever met.
Walter
 
minimus
minimus 11 years ago

If a JW tried to tell you that you were ACTUALLY eating Christ's blood and flesh everytime you accepted Communion, you'd all say, "CULT!".
 
Flash
Flash 11 years ago



Webster's Unabridged Dictionary
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox or extremist, with members often living outside conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
Couldn't any religion be viewed as a cult by those outside of that particular religion? Especialy if the members are, in anyway, zealous.
 
minimus
minimus 11 years ago

A cult might be viewed differently by whomever. Some cult fighters have, like Steven Hassan, their own view of what "qualifies" as a "cult". The Roman Catholic Mass is downright scary.
 
zen nudist
zen nudist 11 years ago


we former BORG call JWs BORG, but the catholics are the true spirit of the BORG, assimulate and conquer and take
what works from their victims.... very adaptable, JWs are dead by comparison and could never attain to the several hundred millions of followers the catholics have amassed
but if they popped up just ten years ago fully formed as they are now, they would laughed out of existance, time has a way of legitimizing the truely idiotic and strange
 
minimus
minimus 11 years ago

Zen---you're right!!
 
jaffacake
jaffacake 11 years ago

Yeah, zen is right. And I suppose the most important issue is how much potential for harm a religion has. Yes its weird, but fairly harmless these days except for the guilt trips. You can stay away from a catholic church for 50 years having lived an immoral life, and just walk back in, no questions asked, and be treated the same as ayone else. I'm not saying whether this is right or wrong, just the way it is. They tend not to judge 'cos thats Jesus' job.
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo a month ago
AndersonsInfo
Brownstoner: How the Jehovah’s Witnesses Acquired Some of Brooklyn’s Most Insanely Valuable Properties
by AndersonsInfo a month ago
Watchtower-Free
Jehovah's Witnesses in Denmark targeting migrants
by Watchtower-Free 24 days ago
JW_Rogue
Your Answers vs. WT Propaganda
by JW_Rogue a month ago
oppostate
Jehovah's Witnesses 'ordered destruction' of notes which could have been used during child sexual abuse inquiry
by oppostate a month ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/87641/if-jws-cult-believe-roman-catholicism-too





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ If JWs Are A Cult, I Believe Roman Catholicism Is Too
/  





 

If JWs Are A Cult, I Believe Roman Catholicism Is Too
by minimus 11 years ago 45 Replies latest 11 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 3
 »
 5
10
20
funkyderek
funkyderek 11 years ago


Does it really matter whether a particular group can be labelled a "cult" or not? If we decide that the Roman Catholic Church doesn't fit enough of our definitions to be labelled a cult, does that mean it's harmless?
Rather than trying to match the properties of a group to the dictionary definition of a cult, we should be more concerned about the effects that the group has on its members and on the world in general. Whether it can be conveniently labelled a cult, a sect or anything else is largely irrelevant and trying to pigeon-hole a group in this way can be counter-productive.
 
Satanus
Satanus 11 years ago


Borg is a good analogy of the catholic church. Heck, it's name means universal. The wt is less borg like in that it doesn't assimilate things to any extent. People are required to leave most of it behind in order to enter wt world.
S
 
garybuss
garybuss 11 years ago

I'd much much much much much much rather my sons were Catholics than Jehovah's Witnesses.
Did I mention I'd much rather?



 
minimus
minimus 11 years ago

You'd rather have them that way if they weren't firm in their beliefs. Hell, Catholics won't recognize legal divorce if they don't want to. (Sounds like a JW to me). Some go to Mass EVERY day! (Worse than a JW). They adore "saints" and worship them! Their clergy's garb is oh so cult! You must kiss the Pope's ring. Say special prayers. Believe in exorcising DEMONS by reading their cult prayers. The RCC is a cult.
 
Stromboli
Stromboli 11 years ago


Thank you minimus!!!
If we look at the horror and guilt (past and present) the catholics have produced we have to conclude that it has been a very damaging religion regardless of the definition of "cult".
Now for those of you that fell for "it's very different now", remember that they didn't change willingly, they had to do it because of politics and because nobody was and is going to church apart from wedding, funerals, xmas and easter..... A bit like the "new light", facts proved it wrong it wasn't them realizing it beforehand.... They would love to go back to the old days.....
What we are seeing with JWs happended with catholic the difference is that catholics went mainstream in order to survive and jws have become stricter in order to fulfill their own mad words.....
On a good note the effect is that catholics have no real rules nowadays so local congregations and individual can make good things. (So nothing to do with their religion) Whereas JWs can't do anything unless the GB say so....
Anyway....how can a bunch of people dressed like that can even be let loose LOL
 
minimus
minimus 11 years ago

I still like Catholic girls.
 
Stromboli
Stromboli 11 years ago


Oh well,
I come from Italy so I'm definately gonna agree on Catholics girls  I had the pleasure many times I mean few times.... I mean I would have loved to....
 
minimus
minimus 11 years ago

Perhaps if JWs are less controlling, they might be viewed no longer as a cult. I guess that's what makes RCC different to them.
 
Stromboli
Stromboli 11 years ago


Parhaps....
I think that JWs offer hope to people for such a good future that people are/were naively (me included of course) prepared to give them authority over their lifes, as soon as more people realize that it ain't true they will end up like the catholics (with no autority over anyone) and enter the "tradition" kingdom. The catolics are viewed as history and people appreciate more what people like Michelangelo put in their churches than what they have to say.....Personally I don't like either of them for different reasons....
BTW there was a documentary about Michelangelo recently and I tell you that guy was a luky bastard.... around the age of 23 he made the "Pieta'", soon after the "David" and he was contending with none other than Leonardo for work!!! Raffaello was one of his pupils and he had the nerves to have arguments with the pope himself.....And he was Gay... I mean this was the period of "Savonarola" the worst inquisitor ever.... even the pope was scared of him... in fact he had to have him killed... well, he was tortured before ... a lot... just like he used to do himself to others.... It could probably be regarded as the highest pick of justice of the RCC...
 
Berean
Berean 11 years ago

Cult
1.
 1. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader. Comment: This fits the Catholic religion following the Pope.
 2. The followers of such a religion or sect.
 2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual. Comment: Once again, the Catholic religion follows ritual - it is obvious to anyone that Catholocism is based on ritual.
 3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual. Comment: See point 2.
 4. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease. Comment: The adhearents, and leaders in the past, to Chatholocism many times claim healing powers in idols, virgin Mary idols abound with so called healing powers.
 5.
 1. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing. Comment: Well duhh - need I say more.
 2. The object of such devotion. Comment: See 5-1.
 6. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.

The Catholic Religion is one of the largest Cults ever in existence.

Berean
 
Pole
Pole 11 years ago

All I can say is that if my country was (even only officially) 95% Jehovah's Witnesses I would probably have a tough time as a former witness here. In fact my country is 95% Catholic and I have no problems living here as a former Catholic.
Can you imagine a world with a billion Jehovah's Witnesses?
 EDITED to add: This label/definition talk really makes no sense. Let's take a pragmatic view.
Pole
 
Stromboli
Stromboli 11 years ago


Hello Pole ,
Well you would be right if....
And when the catholics were like the JWs and they were 99.999999%, people had many troubles.....they used to kill people at that time.....then, when they couldn't kill them anymore, they prevented from working.... now they would pay to have you back
Nowadays could JWs be a billion? I don't think so....
Cult or no cult? well you're right who cares! they just ain't good...is that pragmatic?
 
Narkissos
Narkissos 11 years ago


If the Catholic Church qualifies as a "cult," any other brand of Christianity does.
Whatever (little) meaning the word "cult" may have it has over against "religion".
If every religion is a cult there is no point in using the word "cult" anymore. Just the conclusion "cults" (according to the common, sociological definition) would have people reach.
 
Stromboli
Stromboli 11 years ago


Hi Narkissos,
If every religion is a cult there is no point in using the word "cult" anymore
Why? If they fit the definition then you can say it indeed..
if every political party disgusts me there's no point in calling them disgusting anymore?
To me that's the point of the initial question.... If they fit the definition as well and many more religions do, what then...... what repercussions should that have on our idea of religion...
A good point indeed....
 
stopthepain
stopthepain 11 years ago


I agree with funnyderek,It doesn't matter what you call it.Any fanatical religous person is stupid.It is the effects that it has on "loved ones" around them that concerns me.The 2 rerligions have serious flaws in them.Witnesses are judgemental and picky,and get involved in your life.RC generally serve out of duty and it doesn't effect thier daily life.
If only people could decide whats right and wrong without the middle man,we'd all be better off.
 
Pole
Pole 11 years ago


Dang, looks like we have a favourite topic to debate, Stromboli :smile:.


Cult or no cult? well you're right who cares! they just ain't good...is that pragmatic?


You mean most Catholics aren't good? Or most JW's aren't good? Or do you mean some of their doctrines?
Pole
 
Stromboli
Stromboli 11 years ago


Yeah Pole, It's funny because (for what I understood from prev posts) you don't really want to defend them and I just want to prove a point
You know what I mean... I have nothing against individuals... I'm talking about orgs and the piramidal structures and related practices...and the hypocrisy of the orgs...
If you take the RCC as seriously as JWs then it's a cult, thanksfully nobody (OK only few) take the RCC seriously  So the definition of "cult" is loose as it's subjective. In the RCC nowadays you can choose not to believe everything they say whereas with JWs you have no choice. But the point is (as funkyderek said) if it doesn't perfectly fit the definition it doesn't mean it's harmless...and it does fit depending on the individual... do you really think that after years with JWs you should join an org with a leader dressed like that and when you meet him you have to kiss his gold ring? I know you don't  (well hope...)
 
Pole
Pole 11 years ago

Stromboli,
Yeah I'd love to do some ring-kissing.
I have no argument to make here really other than - as you said it all depends on the person - but that's the point - the proportions. I've seen more good people destroyed by the cultish mentality among JWs than among Catholics or mainstream Protestants. I guess it's just easier to think for yourself as a Catholic. Much easier to get away with being reasonable in the crowd. Whether this is due to the size of the religion only and to the long and gory history of the RCC which taught them a lesson is another issue.

Pole
 
trevor
trevor 11 years ago


I agree with JamesThomas one of the sanest men on this board.
My definition of a cult is very broad and includes every thing which entraps us within a belief system that takes our focus of attention away from this moment of existence (the only truth we have).

Some years ago the WT said that all religions apart from theirs are cults. They couldn't be considered a cult as they were a continuation of the original organization started by Jesus.
I believe that all religion is destructive as it robs people of the opportunity to tune into reality and replaces truth with ideology.
 
Narkissos
Narkissos 11 years ago


IMO the contrast between "religion" and "cult", as it functions in general usage, is basically a matter of antiquity and social/ethnical/geographical implanting. This per se doesn't say anything about right or wrong, harmful or harmless. Of course the natural play of the "majority" / "minorities" relationship will make the term "cult" pejorative, linking it with "wrong" and "harmful". In turn this negative connotation can backfire against the ancient "religion" (as in Minimus' question) when it is no longer thought of as "right" and "harmless". But at this point the initial semantic distinction between "religion" and "cult" has been lost.
This semantic cycle of reminds me of the reversable dualism "God"/"idol" in monotheism:
(1) There is one God, all (other) gods are idols.
(2) Maybe God is an idol too.
The bashing word used by the dominant class backfires; and God is threatened by his own shadow.
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
i believe that jehovah's witnesses are a "cult".
to be a "good roman catholic" you have to be "cultic", that's for sure!
their beliefs and practices, rites and ceremonies are simply weird!



Related Topics
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo a month ago
AndersonsInfo
Brownstoner: How the Jehovah’s Witnesses Acquired Some of Brooklyn’s Most Insanely Valuable Properties
by AndersonsInfo a month ago
Watchtower-Free
Jehovah's Witnesses in Denmark targeting migrants
by Watchtower-Free 24 days ago
JW_Rogue
Your Answers vs. WT Propaganda
by JW_Rogue a month ago
oppostate
Jehovah's Witnesses 'ordered destruction' of notes which could have been used during child sexual abuse inquiry
by oppostate a month ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/87641/if-jws-cult-believe-roman-catholicism-too?page=2&size=20






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ If JWs Are A Cult, I Believe Roman Catholicism Is Too
/  





 

If JWs Are A Cult, I Believe Roman Catholicism Is Too
by minimus 11 years ago 45 Replies latest 11 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 3
 »
5
10
20
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 11 years ago

Seems to me most of this discussion like sooooooo much religious debate comes down to semantics - what my definition of the word means against yours - may I suggest that the real question is perhaps more fundamental: Which belief system is right(and anyone not religious still has a belief system that they think is 'right')? Surely Jesus' band of Christians was a 'cult' when it started (it has every hallmark!) so maybe being labelled a cult isn't the problem. If the cult (I prefer sect! It has a better Latin root meaning:) brings a better life to someone then maybe that's good - if it does the opposite then its bad.
 
Stromboli
Stromboli 11 years ago


Pole,
yep, agreed.
Now does it make any sense to join an org like that? if someone (after JWs) felt the need to join wouldn't you find it strange? knowing that if you take it seriouly as JWs it's another "cult" and if you don't take it seriously what's the point of joining? This is actualy a real question  because I don't understand why someone would do that after JWs.....
Narkissos,
The semantic cycle is actually exposed by the question. To be able to assert it without entering the cycle you need to get out of Orgs all together.(however that brings other problems) That's why the question: "Do religious orgs make any sense?" can be seen as a consequence of the initial question.
If it depends on the subjective relation of individuals with the org aren't all inherently a cult to some extent? if so why would one join it?
 
Pole
Pole 11 years ago


Stromboli,



if someone (after JWs) felt the need to join wouldn't you find it strange?


Well, I would only hope having been a JW has at least taught the person to be a liberal Catholic :smile:.

On a personal note, I definitely find it strange when a former witness goes devoutely Catholic. The key thing to my mental recovery was finding out "the truth" about organised religion, then refuting the Bible as an "insipred" book, and finally seeing through all those God metaphors that have been around since the beginning. That's what really crippled me for a while.

Narkissos,

Leaving sematics aside, don't you think it makes more sense to address the issue in pragmatic terms? Like: which of the two cults (if you like) has a worse effect on the totality of its members? Which one has a worse historical track? Which one does more harm than good and in which coutries/social groups? Does a general comparison really make sense?

Check out James's squirrel: (if the marxist.com domain doesn't scare you away :smile:)

http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/us/james.htm

Pole
 
minimus
minimus 11 years ago

I will never understand how a JW can become a devout JW, either....Of course I can, it's easy to join another cult because of the mentality and conditioning one has.
 
Narkissos
Narkissos 11 years ago


Pole,
Thanks for the link: quite an interesting read (in the context of the early 20th century).
And I do agree that any political approach of religions/cults cannot be anything but pragmatic. Beliefs actually don't matter, only their practical effects do.
 
Satanus
Satanus 11 years ago


 

«
 1
 2
 3
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
i believe that jehovah's witnesses are a "cult".
to be a "good roman catholic" you have to be "cultic", that's for sure!
their beliefs and practices, rites and ceremonies are simply weird!



Related Topics
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo a month ago
AndersonsInfo
Brownstoner: How the Jehovah’s Witnesses Acquired Some of Brooklyn’s Most Insanely Valuable Properties
by AndersonsInfo a month ago
Watchtower-Free
Jehovah's Witnesses in Denmark targeting migrants
by Watchtower-Free 24 days ago
JW_Rogue
Your Answers vs. WT Propaganda
by JW_Rogue a month ago
oppostate
Jehovah's Witnesses 'ordered destruction' of notes which could have been used during child sexual abuse inquiry
by oppostate a month ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/87641/if-jws-cult-believe-roman-catholicism-too?page=3&size=20