Jehovah's-Witness . com discussions

Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Katherine Jackson going back to Indiana to celebrate Michael's 54 Birthday.
/  





 

Katherine Jackson going back to Indiana to celebrate Michael's 54 Birthday.
by arwen 4 years ago 34 Replies latest 4 years ago   social entertainment
«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20
arwen
arwen 4 years ago

http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/music/164532846.html?refer=y
Dont think the JW's will think too well of this!
 
wasblind
wasblind 4 years ago

LOL, Thank you Katherine Jackson for showin' the world how hypocritcal this religion is
nobody does it better than an ACTIVE Jehovah's Witness

Ha Ha, Her faith in her religion is disabled by the things she practice
 
Emma
Emma 4 years ago

How true, Wasblind! They'll continue to look the other way. Must be big checks in that contribution box. Doesn't she "allow" Michael's kids to celebrate Christmas, too?
 
Refriedtruth
Refriedtruth 4 years ago

Yep,it says it plain Jehovah's Witnesses mother Katherine Jackson is celebrating deceased son Michael Jackson birthday.
Amazing
 
wasblind
wasblind 4 years ago

Thank you Emma  Let's keep the money motive between us, don't want to spill that secret
The Witnesses can't say this is a memorial , He died in june, his Birthday is in August
this thread needs an occasional bumpity bump to show how this religion is
 
King Solomon
King Solomon 4 years ago

Maybe she'll abstain by only eating a fraction of the birthday cake, and sing only part of Happy Birthday?
 
wasblind
wasblind 4 years ago

LOL @ King Solomon
 
james_woods
james_woods 4 years ago

Wonder if she invited the Artist formerly known as Prince to attend?
 
blondie
blondie 4 years ago

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/186132/1/KATIE-JACKSON-CELEBRATES-CHRISTMAS-ITS-OFFICIAL
 
wasblind
wasblind 4 years ago

Thank you Blondie , Now it can be seen all in one thread that active Witnesses are allowed to celebrate
Christmas and Birthdays free from punishment, as long as they are rich, and pad the coffers
of the WTS

This is Evidence that the Elders in her congregation are lookin' the other way. How can they not know ????
How can the WTS in Brooklyn not know what's in the news ????
 
King Solomon
King Solomon 4 years ago

Wasblind said:
"How can the WTS in Brooklyn not know what's in the news ????"
That's an easy one to explain: they're so busy watching the news for any bad stuff the WORLD is engaging in (to add to their "Watching The World" column) that it's easy to miss the news reports that would be great for a "Watching the JWs" column. Besides that, MJ is dead now, so it's ok to celebrate his birfday. It's not like the attention might go to his head, and give him a swollen ego (which might also rule out someone who had BILLIONS of screaming fans from ever performing again, once they became a JW).
 
wasblind
wasblind 4 years ago

Besides that, MJ is dead now, so it's ok to celebrate his birfday._________King Solomon
Thank you for showin' how the Witnesses roll  when it comes to birthday celebrations





 
Jim_TX
Jim_TX 4 years ago

But wait a minute... aren't Birthdays always associated with deaths? I think that she is okay then. Let her celebrate MJ's birthday, cause it's in the bible - always associated with deaths. Yuppers... she may have found a loophole in the JW-logic.

I just wonder if she celebrates the kiddo's birthdays, or is she pumping them full of JW-indoctrination that birthdays are bad... let's go now and celebrate MJ's birthday. Talk about mixed-messages. Poor kiddos.
 
wasblind
wasblind 4 years ago

In the link provided by Blondie, the link in the original thread shows where a spokes person for Katherine
claims she wants to provides " Normalcy " for the kids

That says a lot about this religion doesn't it
Question : Are Katherines actions sayin' there's somethin' not " Normal " in her religion ????

Why remain in a religion that has so many " adjustments " . Even when Micheal left he was still adjustin' hisself
couldn't even recognize he was a Jackson

Between an abusive dad and a witness mom, the only place he had to go WAS crazy. poor soul
.
 
wasblind
wasblind 4 years ago

Aren't birthdays always associated with death ???______Jim_tex
Stop bein' a tease Jim
You know that's a falsehood taught by the WTS , all birthdays don't end in death
unless she can show otherwise, the only loop hole Katherine has is money
.
 
undercover
undercover 4 years ago

Bring me the head of the King of Pop on a platter...

Then ya got yerself a b-day party
 
wasblind
wasblind 4 years ago

Bring me the head of the King of Pop on a platter...
Then ya got yerself a b-day party______Undercover

And if one can't be provided, then " Beat it "
.
 
King Solomon
King Solomon 4 years ago

Jim said:
But wait a minute... aren't Birthdays always associated with deaths? I think that she is okay then. Let her celebrate MJ's birthday, cause it's in the bible - always associated with deaths. Yuppers... she may have found a loophole in the JW-logic.
I thought you had something then, but after thinking about it, I now have doubts. See, JWs think celebrating birthdays CAUSE death: deaths don't CAUSE one to celebrate birthdays (that is, unless you obtain an "exception to policy" waiver first, which Katherine apparently has done).

Wasblind said:

And if one can't be provided, then " Beat it "
Maybe MJ was providing a subliminal message from the Bible, preaching the good news of disciplining slaves? :smile:


 
wasblind
wasblind 4 years ago

And if one can't be provided, then " Beat it "
Maybe MJ was providing a subliminal message from the Bible, preaching the good news of disciplining slaves? :smile:______King Solomon



 
wasblind
wasblind 4 years ago

Bumpin' this thread , to let the lurkers know if you pay you can play, like Katherine
 

«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
Bangalore
Abuse redress depends on God: Jehovah's Witnesses
by Bangalore 6 months ago
kepler
Mr. Geoffrey William Jackson = Humpty Dumpty
by kepler 7 months ago
OrphanCrow
Medical Tourism and Medi-Coin - investing in bloodless medicine
by OrphanCrow 14 days ago
umbertoecho
regarding Jacksons testimony.
by umbertoecho 7 months ago
alfred newman
Invisibility - Not Just For Jesus, finds the Royal Commission.
by alfred newman 7 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/230125/katherine-jackson-going-back-indiana-celebrate-michaels-54-birthday





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Katherine Jackson going back to Indiana to celebrate Michael's 54 Birthday.
/  





 

Katherine Jackson going back to Indiana to celebrate Michael's 54 Birthday.
by arwen 4 years ago 34 Replies latest 4 years ago   social entertainment
«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20
Scott77
Scott77 4 years ago

And here is news headline about Katherine's other son.

Cash-strapped Randy Jackson 'owes the mother of his children $500,000 in child support'Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2182143/Randy-Jackson-owes-mother-children-500-000-child-support.html#ixzz22LPgx5Lk

Scott77
 
jemba
jemba 4 years ago

Maybe the elders wouldnt want to pull her aside because if she disagrees with their discipline it could end up as bad press for the JWs. Im sure the $$$ speaks volumes too.
 
rip van winkle
rip van winkle 4 years ago

I'm sorry, but you all have it wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The official release from the JWMedia states:
"Mrs. Katherine Jackson is not celebrating her son, Michael Jackson's birthday.
As a Jehovah's Witness, it is contrary to Mrs. Jackson's belief.
Mrs. Jackson is merely commemorating the anniversary of the birth of her deceased son."

Please do not contact J.R Brown for more information.
 
wasblind
wasblind 4 years ago

Mrs. Jackson is merely commemorating the anniversary of the birth of her deceased son."_______Rip Van Winkle

Thanks Rip
It's been assumed on the first page of this thread that Jehovah's Witnesses
must be allowed to celebrate the birthdays of loved ones only when their dead
Katherine is proof of that. Did she give Micheal any parties growin' up ????

No. Because accordin' to her WT reasoning Micheal will enjoy it better, now that he's dead

And now the whole world can see how bat shit crazy this cult really is
.
 
ShirleyW
ShirleyW 4 years ago

I wonder if any JDubs who read about this have the balls to throw a birthday party for their kids are something and invite all the others in the KH and if the elders question them just show them this article. As well as the photos of Serena Williams posing just about nude and let's not forget the crazy attire of Bro. Rogers, (better known as Prince) then ask the elders if they can do it, why can't we ??
 
wasblind
wasblind 4 years ago

Now shirley , you know better than that
If a broke ass witness can't pay, they can't play
There you go trynna get folk disfellowshipped, thinkin' there's no
class warfare goin' on

Trouble maker
.
 
ShirleyW
ShirleyW 4 years ago

Hold on Wuz - Back in the 60's our Ministerial Servant in my cong was Ken Webb. Those from the New York area might be familiar with that name because in the 70's he became a popular DJ on a radio station here, WBLS, he's now on the Sirius Radio Network. To this day he still claims to be witness, I'm sure he got a good paycheck but I'm sure his money is nowhere in the Jackson, Williams area.
So why the Hell was he still a Ministerial Servant or whatever the Hell they call it now while on the air? Matter of fact, they moved out to Long Island in the mid 70's, and for all I know he still might be the Ministerial Servant or something.
 
wasblind
wasblind 4 years ago

Hey shirley
If he's still a MS , I'm sure it's only because the Elders looked the other way on a few things
And if he's still a Witness, he can't celebrate his birthday while he's alive
It will be commemorated after he's deceased

Hear ye !!!!! Hear ye !!!!!
Witnesses can now celebrate the birthday of loved one's who are deceased
Katherine Jackson has set the example
.
 
sherah
sherah 4 years ago

LOL ShirleyW...my super dub parent listens to his show every morning. I'm going to stir the pot with this info.
 
wasblind
wasblind 4 years ago

Y'all city gurls are bad association for this southern gal
 
orbison11
orbison11 4 years ago

greetings
my x,still ajw, although should be removed 10 times over,
just arranged a birthday party for his mother's 90th birthday

inviting all thewordly family
he was not df'd for it
it is all a joke,,is who you know and the$ you donate
orb
 
ShirleyW
ShirleyW 4 years ago

Sherah, do your parents know that he's a JW ?
 
wasblind
wasblind 4 years ago

Shirley, check your PM
 
King Solomon
King Solomon 4 years ago

Wasblind said:
Hear ye !!!!! Hear ye !!!!!
Witnesses can now celebrate the birthday of loved one's who are deceased
Katherine Jackson has set the example

Soooo, it's OK to celebrate the birthday of a person (or, mark the anniversary of their day of birth, if you prefer) once they're deceased?
What about Jesus? Isn't he deceased?
Does that mean X-mas is back on, per Katherine's example?
WOO-HOO!!!!
 
wasblind
wasblind 4 years ago

Soooo, it's OK to celebrate the birthday of a person (or, mark the anniversary of their day of birth, if you prefer) once they're deceased?
What about Jesus? Isn't he deceased?
Does that mean X-mas is back on, per Katherine's example?______King Solomon

YUP !!!!!!!!!
It's your birthday,....... It's your birthday,............. come on ,.......... come on
We wish you a merry Christmas and a Happy New year
.
 

«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/music/164532846.html?refer=y.
dont think the jw's will think too well of this!.



Related Topics
Bangalore
Abuse redress depends on God: Jehovah's Witnesses
by Bangalore 6 months ago
kepler
Mr. Geoffrey William Jackson = Humpty Dumpty
by kepler 7 months ago
OrphanCrow
Medical Tourism and Medi-Coin - investing in bloodless medicine
by OrphanCrow 14 days ago
umbertoecho
regarding Jacksons testimony.
by umbertoecho 7 months ago
alfred newman
Invisibility - Not Just For Jesus, finds the Royal Commission.
by alfred newman 7 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/230125/katherine-jackson-going-back-indiana-celebrate-michaels-54-birthday?page=2&size=20






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Katherine Jackson attending birthday celebration for Michael?
/  





 

Katherine Jackson attending birthday celebration for Michael?
by PenelopePaige 5 years ago 12 Replies latest 5 years ago   jw experiences
5
10
20
PenelopePaige
PenelopePaige 5 years ago

Ummmmm.....isn't she not supposed to do this? I saw the story on TMZ today, sorry don't know how to post the link....what's up with this?
 
james_woods
james_woods 5 years ago

In my opinion, the Jacksons were never "real" witnesses in the first place.
No more than Prince, the Williams Sisters, or Mickey Spillane ever were.
All of them were or are permitted to be "witnesses" completely on their own rules because they were celebrities.
 
designs
designs 5 years ago



 
PenelopePaige
PenelopePaige 5 years ago

It seems as though Katherine Jackson is as serious as a heart attack about being a JW, she was out in field service when Michael died, and I hear she goes to all the conventions etc. but I do find it strange that she would go to a birthday celebration thing, and (to her credit) she doesn't seem to shun her children that have left the JW's. She even welcomed ole crazy LaToya back, even after all she'd done, which was a nice thing to do. :smile:
 
james_woods
james_woods 5 years ago

Well, remember that she attended a non-witness memorial service for MJ too - as I recall.
Serious or not, she still is permitted to be a witness pretty much by her own rules.
 
Dagney
Dagney 5 years ago

Good for her.
If a JW asks me about BD's, I'll tell them "Katherine Jackson does it!"
 
PSacramento
PSacramento 5 years ago

Can you imagine IF the WT would DF her or do anything that would cause her to take what she knows and go public?
Can you imagine how much publicity she would be able to get? how much light would be shed on ALL the WT does and has DONE ??
 
steve2
steve2 5 years ago

And remember right at the start, even before the Jackson family were "superstars" they obeyed Berry Gordy from Motown and recorded "I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus" and whole lot of other "pagan" christmassy songs for an album. Money talks and the Watchtower listens.
Seriously, the Jackson family, matriarch Katherine included, are like so many "well known" JWs: They are "special" and follow another set of rules altogether.
 
Quarterback
Quarterback 5 years ago

She is not the first JW to attend a Birthday party. It's not a DF offense. I'm not against her attending a non witness funeral. That is a conscience matter. It was her son that died.
 
sd-7
sd-7 5 years ago

Well, maybe she's already been "marked" for her "brazen conduct"...
--sd-7
 
Band on the Run
Band on the Run 5 years ago

Unlike Michael, she seems sincere. Few people would do know her well enough to know. I strongly believe she must send extremely large donations. Imagine how many younger black people the JWs attract b/c of their black celebrities.
Mickey Spillane was a D list. Katherine,Michael--definitely A list.
All I know if I ever grabbed my crotch with definite purpose and held it a long time, it would be curtains for me. The Williams sisters are so fashion crazy for a Witness.
Money talks, no one walks.
 
Snoozy
Snoozy 5 years ago

http://www.tmz.com/2011/08/29/michael-jackson-birthday-commemoration-katherine-jackson-gary-indiana/
Michael Jackson's Birthday
 Katherine Attends Celebration
0829_katherine_jackson_getty
Michael Jackson's mother, Katherine Jackson, was among those gathered yesterday at the Jackson family home in Gary, IN to celebrate Michael's birthday.

Yeah sure..bet the WTBTS still takes her donations..
Snoozy
 
jamiebowers
jamiebowers 5 years ago

Talk is cheap, but it takes money to buy whiskey...at least as far as the Watchtower is concerned. I bet Mrs. Jackson has donated tons to the boys in Brooklyn. Micheal even took a page from their playbook when he paid hush money to those accusing him of child sex abuse.
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
OnTheWayOut
Honor Your Story
by OnTheWayOut 6 months ago
Coded Logic
The WT in 10 years time
by Coded Logic 2 months ago
konceptual99
Mind Games and Con Artists
by konceptual99 2 months ago
elderINewton
My introduction and confession
by elderINewton 8 months ago
kepler
Mr. Geoffrey William Jackson = Humpty Dumpty
by kepler 7 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/215169/katherine-jackson-attending-birthday-celebration-michael





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Katherine Jackson missing, says Huffingpost Post
/  





 

Katherine Jackson missing, says Huffingpost Post
by ShirleyW 4 years ago 6 Replies latest 4 years ago   jw friends
5
10
20
ShirleyW
ShirleyW 4 years ago

The story sound very bizarre, Paris tweeted that she hasn't heard from her in a week, I thought she was living in the same house with her anyway? Then article goes on the say that last time she was heard from she was Rebbie so I have a feeling that they're all at the District Assembly somewhere !
Article goes on to say that Paris' tweets were deleted. With all the nieces and nephews in that family plus she's supposedly with Rebbie, seems hard to believe that they don't know where she is.
 
leavingwt
leavingwt 4 years ago

http://www.people.com/people/tablet/article/0,,20613913,00.html
 
jamiebowers
jamiebowers 4 years ago

http://www.people.com/people/tablet/article/0,,20613913,00.html
Added: I couldn't get the article to come up.
 
wasblind
wasblind 4 years ago

Those children are still minors, If there is nothin' seriously wrong wit Katherine
she is neglectin' those children, they should always know how to be in contact
wit her
 
blondie
blondie 4 years ago

So why weren't these grandkids at the convention?
 
betterdaze
betterdaze 4 years ago

Katherine Jackson is safe, with family: Sheriff

Paris allegedly tweeted: "I will defend my beloved family member with all I have, even if it means from other family members."

That there is Watchtower speak.
 
mind blown
mind blown 4 years ago

http://news.yahoo.com/sheriff-katherine-jackson-safe-family-033138705.html

LOS ANGELES (AP) — Katherine Jackson , the mother of Michael Jackson and guardian of his three children, is safe and with a family member in Arizona, authorities said late Sunday, one day after another relative reported her missing.
Los Angeles Sheriff's Deputy Mark Pope said investigators made contact with Jackson, but he did not have specifics on her whereabouts. The agency previously said they believed she was with a relative and safe, but wanted to speak with her.
Katherine Jackson is with her daughter Rebbie in Arizona, following a doctor's orders to "de-stress" and stay away from the phone and computers, her son Jermaine Jackson said in a statement late Sunday. He said access to his mother is not being blocked.
A member of the Jackson family had reported the family matriarch missing on Saturday, prompting a frantic plea from the late pop star's only daughter to help locate her grandmother.
"I haven't spoken with her in a week I want her home now," 14-year-old Paris Jackson tweeted, later providing a number for people to contact in case they see her grandmother. Katherine Jackson has been caring for Paris, Prince Michael and Blanket Jackson since their father's death in June 2009.
It was unclear who is taking care of the children in her absence.
The incident demonstrated divisions in the Jackson family just days after five of the singer's siblings once again claimed that the King of Pop's will was a fake and that the executors of his lucrative estate should step down.
The undated letter, signed by Janet, Randy, Tito, Rebbie and Jermaine Jackson, claimed Katherine Jackson was being manipulated by the executors, John Branca and John McClain, her health had been affected, and she suffered a mini-stroke.
The estate has denied the accusations, which have swirled since Michael Jackson died from an overdose of a powerful anesthetic. Katherine Jackson obtained permission from a judge to investigate the will's validity, but never pursued the matter in court.
"It dismays me that such an alarmist 'missing person' report has caused unnecessary anxiety among Michael's children who will understandably react to what they misunderstand, hear or are told," Jermaine Jackson wrote.
The mystery of Katherine Jackson's whereabouts was compounded by a visit from her son's former physician, Dr. Allan Metzger , who examined her July 14 after being brought to her Calabasas home by someone close to the family, said her attorney, Sandy Ribera.
She had been scheduled to depart on an RV trip to the Southwest to watch her sons perform. The elder Jackson never made any of the shows and Metzger apparently told her not to take the trip, Ribera said.
Metzger is not Katherine Jackson's primary physician and her regular doctor wasn't aware the his house call until concerns about Katherine Jackson's whereabouts were raised, Ribera said.
A phone message left for Metzger at his Beverly Hills practice was not immediately returned Sunday.
Metzger treated Michael Jackson earlier in his career and met with the singer once in the months before he died. Defense attorneys for the physician convicted of killing the pop superstar called him as a witness to try to show the singer was attempting to obtain a powerful anesthetic for home use.
Despite being a defense witness, Metzger aided prosecutors by telling jurors that he refused Jackson's request and warned him of the risks.
Paris Jackson referenced Metzger's visit in a tweet early Sunday, writing, "the same doctor that testified on behalf of dr murray saying my father was a drug addict (a lie) is caring for my grandmother... just saying."
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo 25 days ago
kepler
Mr. Geoffrey William Jackson = Humpty Dumpty
by kepler 7 months ago
Bangalore
Abuse redress depends on God: Jehovah's Witnesses
by Bangalore 6 months ago
umbertoecho
regarding Jacksons testimony.
by umbertoecho 7 months ago
OnTheWayOut
Has this latest Candace Conti Update been Looked At? Settlement Reached?
by OnTheWayOut 8 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/229726/katherine-jackson-missing-says-huffingpost-post






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home





Search 'katherine jackson'
First
 Next
  Dogpatch
2
VH1 Program-Michael Jackson's Secret Childhood online.
by Dogpatch in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 11 years ago
At the same time, the proselytizing of his mother Katherine - a devout Jehovah's Witness - confused Michael about ...

JustTickledPink
TweetieBird
8 years ago
GoddessRachel
7
The Irony: Prince Caused Religious Problems for Teenage Jackson.
by GoddessRachel in Social
 » News & World Events
 8 years ago
PRINCE CAUSED RELIGIOUS PROBLEMS FOR TEENAGE JACKSON . . 2008-02-09 15:30:10 - JANET JACKSON had to switch seats ...

95stormfront
GoddessRachel
dinah
8 years ago
blondie
3
Did WTS talks Michael Jackson's mother out of divorcing husband?
by blondie in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 11 years ago
. http://sify.com/peopleandplaces/fullstory.php?id=13603415 . Jackson may have a secret half sister Wednesday, ...

kls
Big Tex
Sassy
11 years ago
leavingwt
23
Katherine Jackson: "my son is gone and for forever"
by leavingwt in Social
 » Entertainment
 5 years ago
. I'm left to assume that Sister Jackson has concluded that Michael will not be resurrected.

thetrueone
Snoozy
serenitynow!
5 years ago
Dogpatch
10
MICHAEL Jackson's parents are getting divorced.
by Dogpatch in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 6 years ago
MICHAEL Jacksons parents are getting divorced.. . Katherine and Joe Jackson have been married for 60 years but ...

serenitynow!
wasblind
wasblind
6 years ago
fern
35
MJ's kids to be raised by Katherine Jackson and possibly as JW's.
by fern in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 7 years ago
I just read on the AccessHollywood website that Michael Jackson wanted his kids to be raised by his mother if ...

JimmyPage
JimmyPage
undercover
7 years ago
Scott77
1
New Revealation: Michael Jackson's death sparked off Money fight among family members.
by Scott77 in Social
 » News & World Events
 3 years ago
Michael Jackson's death set off wild cash scramble between mom Katherine and sister La Toya -- and even a fight over ...

Scott77
3 years ago
arwen
34
Katherine Jackson going back to Indiana to celebrate Michael's 54 Birthday.
by arwen in Social
 » Entertainment
 4 years ago http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/music/164532846.html?refer=y. Dont think the JW's will think too well of ...

wasblind
King Solomon
wasblind
4 years ago
ShirleyW
6
Katherine Jackson missing, says Huffingpost Post.
by ShirleyW in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 4 years ago
The story sound very bizarre, Paris tweeted that she hasn't heard from her in a week, I thought she was living in ...

blondie
betterdaze
mind blown
4 years ago
PenelopePaige
12
Katherine Jackson attending birthday celebration for Michael?
by PenelopePaige in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 5 years ago
Ummmmm.....isn't she not supposed to do this? I saw the story on TMZ today, sorry don't know how to post the ...

Band on the Run
Snoozy
jamiebowers
5 years ago
First
 Next
 
 
 


Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/search/?q=katherine+jackson&cursor=False%3ACrgECp0BCoAB_7_j2WfgAAAA9w3wC5n_7eJvjIGWkYuajJCZi9KWkZzelZqXkImel4zSiJaLkZqMjNGckJL_AHRtoKCZi4ygoP8AXZ6Pj5qRmJaRmv8Ac3RtlpGbmof_AF2rkI-WnP8Ac3Rtm5CcoJab_wBdzsbKz8_L_wBzf87Gys_Py_8A__4QHiEE3QSQHTwbGVAAWgsJM-SZBeHeX3AQARINRG9jdW1lbnRJbmRleBq8AihBTkQgKElTICJjdXN0b21lcl9uYW1lIiAiYXBwZW5naW5lIikgKElTICJncm91cF9uYW1lIiAic35pbnRlc29mdC1pbmMiKSAoSVMgIm5hbWVzcGFjZSIgImplaG92YWhzLXdpdG5lc3MuY29tIikgKElTICJpbmRleF9uYW1lIiAiVG9waWMiKSAoQU5EIChHRSAwICJzbmJyX3JlYWRfbGV2ZWwiKSAoT1IgKEFORCAoT1IgKFFUICJrYXRoZXJpbmUiKSAoSVMgIl9fZ2F0b21fXyIgImthdGhlcmluZSIpKSAoT1IgKFFUICJqYWNrc29uIikgKElTICJfX2dhdG9tX18iICJqYWNrc29uIikpKSAoSVMgIl9fZ2F0b21fXyIgImthdGhlcmluZSBqYWNrc29uIikpKSk6GQoMKE4gb3JkZXJfaWQpEAEZAAAAAAAA8P9KLQgBOhJidGlfZ2VuZXJpY19zY29yZXJA6AdKEgsQgKKFBRoJCgdlc2NvcmVyDA






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Is Will Smith studying?
/  





 

Is Will Smith studying?
by Gram 7 years ago 10 Replies latest 6 years ago   watchtower beliefs
5
10
20
Gram
Gram 7 years ago

I heard that someone saw him at a DC sitting in a row behind Catherine (Katherine) Jackson and that he is studying. Anyone heard this before?
 
XJW4EVR
XJW4EVR 7 years ago

This is news to me. The last rumor I heard about him regarding religion was that Tom Cruise was trying to get him into $cientology.
 
BizzyBee
BizzyBee 7 years ago

Highly doubtful.

I saw him and Jada at my health club in Santa Barbara one Sunday afternoon about 3 years ago. The place was nearly empty and they were lifting weights. They live near Calabasas and have started their own charter school. They joined our country club in nearby Saticoy (gorgeous golf course) about a year ago - their picture was in our CC newsletter as new members. But no one really expects to actually see them out there playing golf.

Aren't they Scientologists?
 
boyzone
boyzone 7 years ago

Oh God I hope not. I like Will Smith.
 
JWdaughter
JWdaughter 7 years ago

The thing is, if they are soft towards the one cult, why not another? Probably just gossip based on the fact that they have a history with strange religion now.
 
Scarred for life
Scarred for life 7 years ago

They are scientologists.
 
blondie
blondie 7 years ago

Unless they went up and asked if he was Will Smith and he said yes, sitting with Katherine Jackson is no proof of his identity. I hope this doesn't become a rumor that spreads across the internet.
 
easyreader1970
easyreader1970 7 years ago

I am sure the WBTS would love to have Big Willie making monthly donations.
 
AllTimeJeff
AllTimeJeff 7 years ago

It's impossible to say, but I highly doubt it. Another JW rumor thats all legs and no brains....
 
drwtsn32
drwtsn32 7 years ago

I also understood Will Smith is a Scientologist.
 
wantstoleave
wantstoleave 6 years ago

I think he's a scientologist....IF he did attend, maybe he was supporting Katherine?
What's the latest on Prince...is he still a brother? Last I heard, about 6mths ago....he was. I know someone in his congregation. Curious to know if he's still in as I haven't had contact with the sister in his hall for a long time now.
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
Island Man
The massive gaping hole in Watchtower's understanding of Matthew 25:31-40
by Island Man 4 months ago
Billy1000
Christadelphian
by Billy1000 16 days ago
deegee
Is the WT’s Paradise Earth doctrine a delusion?
by deegee 2 days ago
biblexaminer
PEACE AND SECURITY!
by biblexaminer 9 days ago
Simon
Retirement Planning for ex-JW's
by Simon 4 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/180464/will-smith-studying





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 02-03-2013 WT Study (REAL SUCCESS)
/  





 

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 02-03-2013 WT Study (REAL SUCCESS)
by blondie 3 years ago 15 Replies latest 3 years ago   jw friends
5
10
20
blondie
blondie 3 years ago

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 02-03-2013 WT Study (DECEMBER 15, 2012, pages 4-8)(REAL SUCCESS)

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/?contentLanguageFilter=en&pubFilter=w&yearFilter=2012

Review comments will be headed by COMMENTS
WT material from today's WT will be in black
w = Watchtower
g = Awake
jv = Proclaimers book

EXCELLENT GENERAL WEBSITE : www.jwfacts.com

Bible translations www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible
WT publications www.strictlygenteel.co.uk
WT child abuse www.silentlambs.org
Blood issue www.ajwrb.org
United Nations http://www.randytv.com/secret/unitednations.htm

Also posted on

http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com
www.jehovahs-witness.net
http://www.jehovahswitnessrecovery.com/

FIND REAL SUCCESS IN LIFE
“You will make your way successful and
. . . act wisely.”—JOSH. 1:8.

HOW WOULD YOU ANSWER?

How successful was Solomon?

In what way was Paul truly successful?

How can you be lastingly successful?

OPENING COMMENTS

I wish I knew how to bring in the manipulated picture of Paul going door to door with a book bag (see page 7 in this article above).

Where are the scrolls?

http://i33.tinypic.com/nejgo5.jpg

http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/publishingcult/1stcenturyhousetohousewithpubs.jpg

Page 6 shows a 1 st century elders school, right?

Page 4 shows that men are not required to wear suit coats from door to door.

START OF ARTICLE

1, 2. (a) How do many people define success? (b) How
might you gauge your view of success?

WHAT does it mean to be successful in
life? Ask people that question, and you
will find that their answers vary greatly.
Many, for example, define success in terms of
outstanding achievement in financial, professional,
or academic pursuits. Others factor in relationships
—how well they relate to family, friends, or workmates.
One who serves God might even link success
to a position of responsibility in the congregation or
to achievements in the ministry.

COMMENTS

Ask which people? Many, how many? Is based on a survey or a study or the personal opinion of the author of this article?

Sounds like elders/MS and pioneers feel their future lies in what they do….but that’s what the WTS teaches.

2 To identify your personal view of success, you
might write down the names of a few people whom
you consider to be successful—those whom you most
admire and respect. What outstanding characteristic
do they have in common? Are they rich or famous?
Are they prominent? The answers may well reveal
what is in your heart, and that can profoundly influence
the choices you make and the goals you pursue.
—Luke 6:45.

COMMENTS

People you view as successful: Jesus, Mary, Dorcas, Abigail, Jael, etc.

Is this a trick question for jws?

Are there prominent jws?

When I visited new congregations when I traveled, people would tell me how many elders, regular pioneers they had, and then ask how many my congregation had.

How are GB members treated at conventions…only certain ones can talk to them, they are protected, and concealed in private areas.

I just saw a picture where GB members were signing bibles for public officials…prominent, famous?

http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac200/publishingcult/gbsigning.jpg

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/207117/1/Governing-Body-Autographs-Gift-Bibles-For-Cuban-Authorities

3. (a) What was Joshua to do to make his way successful?
(b) What will we now consider?

3 What matters most is whether Jehovah views us
as successful, for our very lives depend on his approval.
When giving Joshua the weighty assignment
of leading the Israelites into the Promised Land, Jehovah
told him to read the Mosaic Law “day and
night” and to be careful to obey what was written in
it. God assured him: “Then you will make your way
successful and then you will act wisely.” (Josh. 1:7, 8)
And you know that Joshua did prove to be successful.
What about us? How may we determine whether
our view of success matches God’s view? To that
end, consider the lives of two men mentioned
in the Bible.

COMMENTS

Yes, does God view us as successful but does his view of us filter through the GB? Or through other “imperfect” elders who can make a similar decision that the judges of Israel could make, that one was deserving of death, execution?

Remember though that Joshua was used by God to kill innocent children.

(Joshua 10:40) . . .And Joshua proceeded to strike all the land of the mountainous region and the Neg′eb and the She·phe′lah and the slopes and all their kings. He did not let a survivor remain, and everything that breathed he devoted to destruction, just as Jehovah the God of Israel had commanded.

(Joshua 11:14) 14 And all the spoil of these cities and the domestic animals the sons of Israel plundered for themselves. It was only all humankind that they struck with the edge of the sword until they had annihilated them. They did not let anyone that breathed remain.

WAS SOLOMON SUCCESSFUL IN LIFE?

4. Why might it be said that Solomon was successful?

4 In many ways, Solomon was exceptionally
successful. Why? Because for a
number of years, he feared and obeyed
Jehovah, who blessed him greatly. Recall
that when Jehovah had Solomon make
a request, the king asked for wisdom
to guide the people. Thereupon God
blessed him with both wisdom and riches.
(Read 1 Kings 3:10-14.)  His wisdom
was “vaster than the wisdom of all the
Orientals and than all the wisdom of
Egypt.” Solomon’s fame came to be
known “in all the nations all around.”
(1 Ki. 4:30, 31) As to wealth, his annual
revenue of gold alone weighed
some 25 tons! (2 Chron. 9:13) He was
brilliant in diplomacy, construction, and
commerce. Yes, while he maintained
his right standing with God, Solomon
proved to be successful.—2 Chron. 9:
22-24.

COMMENTS

How successful was Solomon who died an apostate with 1,000 wives/concubines, a worshipper of many false gods, even building temples for them.

*** w04 4/1 pp. 11-12 par. 9 Resist the Spirit of a Changing World ***
And Solomon’s wisdom was vaster than the wisdom of all the Orientals and than all the wisdom of Egypt.” (1 Kings 4:21, 29, 30; 11:9) Surely, one might think, if anyone was likely to remain faithful to God, it was Solomon. Yet, Solomon drifted into apostasy.

Though Solomon died in an apostate state, the WTS says he will be resurrected. What about so-called ex-jw apostates today?

*** w05 7/15 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
What happened to Solomon when he died? The Bible answers: “The days that Solomon had reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel were forty years. Then Solomon lay down with his forefathers, and was buried in the City of David his father.” (1 Kings 11:42, 43) Hence, it seems reasonable to conclude that Solomon is in Sheol, or Hades, from which he will be resurrected.

This conclusion implies that the possibility of being resurrected is open to others  concerning whom the Scriptures specifically say, ‘they lay down with their forefathers.’ In fact, many of the kings who succeeded Solomon, though unfaithful, are spoken of in this way. This is not inconceivable, since “there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” (Acts 24:15) Of course, only after “all those in the memorial tombs” are raised will we know for a certainty who has been favored with a resurrection. (John 5:28, 29) So rather than be dogmatic about the resurrection of any particular individual of old, we wait, trusting in Jehovah’s perfect decision.

Yet the WTS says this about “unrepentant apostates” which Solomon certainly was.

*** w82 4/1 p. 27 par. 6 Survival or Destruction at the “Great Tribulation” ***
Now, the Bible definitely shows that some end up in the symbolic Gehenna before the 1,000-year Judgment Day begins. Jesus told the unrepentant scribes and Pharisees that they and their Gentile proselytes were ‘subjects for Gehenna’ or, literally, ‘sons of Gehenna.’ (Matthew 23:15, 33-35; see also John 9:39-41; 15:22-24.) If even a proselyte of the Pharisees became a subject for Gehenna ‘twice as much so as themselves,’ how much more so Judas Iscariot, who made a heinous deal with them to betray God’s Son! Jesus implied this when he called Judas “the son of destruction.” (John 17:12) Similarly, unrepentant apostates go, at death, not to Sheol, or Hades, but to Gehenna. (Hebrews 6:4-8; 2 Peter 2:1) The same is true of dedicated Christians who persist in willful sin or those who “shrink back.” (Hebrews 10:26-31, 38, 39)

And here the WTS resorts to speaking out of the other side of the mouth.

*** w06 3/15 p. 6 The Only Remedy! ***
We must be careful, though, not to speculate on whether a certain person will be resurrected or not. This judgment belongs to God. He knows who is in Hades and who is in Gehenna.

5. What did Solomon conclude about those
who are successful before God?

5 What Solomon wrote in the book of
Ecclesiastes shows that he was not misled
into thinking that achievement and
joy are limited to those having wealth
or prominence. Not at all. He wrote: “I
have come to know that there is nothing
better for them than to rejoice and to
do good during one’s life; and also that
every man should eat and indeed drink
and see good for all his hard work. It
is the gift of God.” (Eccl. 3:12, 13) And
he realized that such pleasures are truly
meaningful for the one who has God’s
approval, who has a good relationship
with Him. Solomon rightly stated: “The
conclusion of the matter, everything
having been heard, is: Fear the true God
and keep his commandments. For this
is the whole obligation of man.”—Eccl.
12:13.

COMMENTS

Of course though, Solomon received both wisdom and wealth without any real work on his part, just an accident of birth, easy for him to say that joy did not come out of “wealth or prominence.” And based on the Law, he would never have been born because both David and Bathsheba should have been executed.

And Solomon sought forbidden pleasures, marrying non-Israelite woman and losing God’s approval. He practiced, “do as I say, not as I do.”

6. What insight does Solomon’s example offer
us as to measuring true success?

6 For years, Solomon walked in the
fear of God. We read that he “continued
to love Jehovah by walking in the
statutes of David his father.” (1 Ki. 3:3)
Would you not count that as true success?
At God’s direction, Solomon built
a magnificent temple for true worship
and wrote three Bible books. While we
may not expect to do the same, Solomon’s
example when he was faithful
to God should show us how to evaluate
what is real success and should thus
help us to achieve it. In this regard, remember
that under inspiration Solomon
wrote that wealth, wisdom, fame, and
power—what most people today would
view as benchmarks of success—are
vain. Such things are really empty, “a
striving after wind.” Have you not seen
that many lovers of wealth yearn to have
ever more? And they often worry about
what they do have. Moreover, their riches
will one day go to others.—Read Ecclesiastes
2:8-11, 17; 5:10-12.

COMMENTS

For years…but in the end, Solomon died unfaithful. Had he abandoned his wealth and lived a simple live of full-time service to God?

“when he was faithful” but not to death….so do df’d jws who die unfaithful have the same hope to be resurrected as the WTS gives the apostate Solomon, but not the apostate Judas? What did Solomon value more by the time he died?

7, 8. How did Solomon prove unfaithful, and
with what result?

7 You also know that Solomon eventually
strayed from the course of faithful
obedience. God’s Word states: “It came
about in the time of Solomon’s growing
old that his wives themselves had inclined
his heart to follow other gods; and
his heart did not prove to be complete
with Jehovah his God like the heart of
David his father. . . . Solomon began to
do what was bad in the eyes of Jehovah.”
—1 Ki. 11:4-6.

COMMENTS

Solomon did more than stray, he was an unrepentant apostate by the time he died, subject to Gehenna depending on which WT quote is applied.

8 Rightly displeased, Jehovah told Solomon:
“For the reason that . . . you have
not kept my covenant and my statutes
that I laid in command upon you, I shall
without fail rip the kingdom away from
off you, and I shall certainly give it to
your servant.” (1 Ki. 11:11) How tragic!
Though Solomon had been a success in
many ways, in time he disappointed Jehovah.
In the most important area of life
—faithfulness to God—Solomon failed.
Each of us can ask, ‘Am I determined to
make sure that the lesson learned from
Solomon’s life will help me to be a success?’

COMMENTS

Saul—executed by God
David—should have died as well for the sins of murder and adultery
Solomon—died an unrepentant apostate
Rehoboam—died having established sex worship with ten tribes given to a servant of Solomon

A TRULY SUCCESSFUL LIFE

9. By the world’s standards, was Paul successful?
Explain.

9 The apostle Paul’s life differed greatly
from King Solomon’s. For Paul, there
was no ivory throne or feasting with
kings. Instead, there were times of hunger,
thirst, cold, and nakedness. (2 Cor.
11:24-27) Once he accepted Jesus as the
Messiah, Paul held no position of honor
in the Jewish religion. Rather, the Jewish
religious leaders hated him. He was
imprisoned, whipped, beaten with rods,
and stoned. Paul acknowledged that he
and his fellow Christians were reviled,
persecuted, and defamed. “We have become
as the refuse of the world, the off scouring
of all things, until now.”—1 Cor.
4:11-13.

COMMENTS

How many people were “successful” by the “world’s standards” in Paul’s time? Think how many slaves there were even in the Christian congregation. Paul constantly preached how the Christians of his time including him would be kings and priests with Christ, immortal. So were the Christians they did not received physical persecution and were not reviled or defamed unsuccessful?

Not all Christians will experience severe persecution. WT 02-15-2012 Be Courageous and Very Strong (paragraph 20)

10. Why might it have seemed that Paul
spurned success?

10 As a young man named Saul, the
apostle Paul seemed to have so much
going for him. Born into what may have
been a prominent family, he studied
with Gamaliel, a respected teacher, and
later wrote: “I was making greater progress
in Judaism than many of my own
age.” (Gal. 1:14) Fluent in Hebrew and
Greek, Saul had Roman citizenship,
which accorded him much-coveted privileges
and rights. Had he chosen to keep
pursuing such worldly success, he could
likely have gained personal prominence
and financial security. Instead, he chose
a course that to others—perhaps even to
some relatives—seemed to be sheer folly.
Why?

COMMENTS

Did Paul turn away from these benefits when a Christian? Remember he invoked his Roman citizenship to avoid death.

Did he stop pursuing prominence? Or did he trade rulers? Remember Jesus appeared personally to Paul and spoke to him. How many jws can say that today, anointed or not?

Did he serve God and Jesus for love or reward?

PICTURE: By human standards, Saul appeared
to be on the path to success

11. What values and goal did Paul hold dear,
and why?

11 Paul loved Jehovah and desired his
approval more than riches and prominence
among men. Gaining an accurate
knowledge of the truth, Paul came
to value the ransom, the Christian ministry,
the hope of life in heaven—things
that the world largely ignores. Paul realized
that there was an issue to be settled.
Satan had charged that he could turn hu-
mans aside from serving God. (Job 1:9-
11; 2:3-5) No matter what trials came his
way, Paul was determined to be faithful
to God, to endure in true worship. That
is a goal that is lacking on the world’s
agenda for success.

COMMENTS

Notice the WTS leaves Jesus out of the picture; no love for him mentioned.

How can the ransom be valued by non-anointed jws when the WTS teaches that Jesus is not their mediator?

*** w10 8/15 p. 14 par. 10 How the Ransom Saves Us ***
The Scriptures explain: “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all.”—1 Tim. 2:5, 6.
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/mediator.php

12. Why did you choose to rest your hope on
God?

12 Do you share Paul’s determination?
Though living a life of faithfulness is
not always easy, we know that it brings
Jehovah’s blessing and approval, and
that is what makes one truly successful.
(Prov.10:22) We benefit now, and we certainly
can expect blessings in the future.
(Read Mark 10:29, 30.)  Hence, we have
every reason to rest our hope, “not on
uncertain riches, but on God, who furnishes
us all things richly for our enjoyment.”
We ‘safely treasure up for ourselves
a fine foundation for the future,
in order that we may get a firm hold on
the real life.’ (1 Tim. 6:17-19) Yes, we
can be absolutely sure that a hundred
years from now, even a thousand years
or more from now, we will be able to
look back and say, “I definitely chose the
course of real success!”

COMMENTS

No approval from Jesus?

Do we serve God because we love him or we expect blessings?

100 years from now….in the new system or still waiting?

1,000 years….still waiting?

WHERE YOUR TREASURE IS


13. Jesus gave what counsel about storing up
treasures?

13 Jesus said about treasures: “Stop
storing up for yourselves treasures upon
the earth, where moth and rust consume,
and where thieves break in and
steal. Rather, store up for yourselves
treasures in heaven, where neither moth
nor rust consumes, and where thieves
do not break in and steal. For where your
treasure is, there your heart will be also.”
—Matt. 6:19-21.

COMMENTS

Store up treasure in heaven—works = salvation?

14. Why is it unwise to seek earthly treasures?

14 A person’s earthly treasure may be
more than just money. In a sense, it
could include any of those things that
Solomon wrote about that have to do
with being successful in the eyes of men
—prestige, fame, or power. Jesus made a
point similar to the one Solomon made
in the book of Ecclesiastes—worldly treasures
are not lasting. As you have likely
seen in the world around you, all such
treasures are perishable and can be easily
lost. Professor F. Dale Bruner writes
of such treasures: “It is well known that
fame is fickle. Last Saturday’s hero is
next season’s has-been. This year’s
financial success is next year’s bankruptcy.
. . . [Jesus] loves human beings. He
urges them to avoid the inevitable despair
that comes with evanescent glory.
It doesn’t last. Jesus does not want [his]
disciples [to be] disappointed. ‘Every
day the world turns over on someone
who was just sitting on top of it.’ ”
Though most people would agree with
those comments, how many allow the reality
behind them to alter their approach
to life? Will you?

COMMENTS

Who is Professor F. Dale Bruner, when and where did he say this, what are some of his other views and are they compatible with WT doctrine/policy?

Why use views of a man that the WTS would discourage jws from reading; could the WTS not find a quote by a faithful jw or from the bible?

15. For what kind of success should we strive?

15 Some religious leaders have
preached that it is wrong to strive after
success and that all effort to succeed
should be stifled. Note, though, that Jesus
was not condemning all such effort.
Rather, he was exhorting his disciples to
redirect their effort, admonishing them to
store up imperishable “treasures in heaven.”
Our foremost desire should be to
strive to be a success as Jehovah would
view it. Yes, Jesus’ words remind us that
we have a choice as to what we will pursue.
The fact is, though, that we will pursue
what is in our heart, what is of value
to us.

COMMENTS

Jesus was not condemning all but how much? Who decides if it is too much, the WTS and their local congregation representatives the elder?

(2 Corinthians 1:24 ) . . .Not that we are the masters over YOUR faith, but we are fellow workers for YOUR joy, for it is by [YOUR] faith that YOU are standing.

16. In what can we have every confidence?

16 If it is in our heart to please Jehovah,
we can trust that he will see to it
that we have the things we need. He
may permit us to experience temporary
hunger or thirst, as the apostle Paul did.
(1 Cor. 4:11) Nevertheless, we can have
every confidence in Jesus’ wise advice:
“Never be anxious and say, ‘What are we
to eat?’ or, ‘What are we to drink?’ or,
‘What are we to put on?’ For all these are
the things the nations are eagerly pursuing.
For your heavenly Father knows
you need all these things. Keep on, then,
seeking first the kingdom and his righteousness,
and all these other things will
be added to you.”—Matt. 6:31-33.

COMMENTS

Were the poor, sick, hurt helped by your congregation; were you helped or were you told to wait on God, or that you were not viewed as being in good enough standing in the congregation?

FIND SUCCESS IN GOD’S SIGHT


17, 18. (a) Upon what does true success depend?
(b) Upon what does success not depend?

17 A key point is this: Our being truly
successful does not depend on our
achievements or position in the eyes of
the world. Moreover, true success is not
measured by having a certain responsibility
in the Christian arrangement. Such
a blessing, though, can be related to
what truly is the basis for success, our
obedience and faithfulness to God, who
assures us: “What is looked for in stewards
is for a man to be found faithful.”
(1 Cor. 4:2) And we must endure in being
faithful. Jesus said: “He that has endured
to the end is the one that will be saved.”
(Matt. 10:22) Would you not agree that
being saved is an undeniable evidence of
success?

COMMENTS

Achievements or position in the eyes of the WTS and/or congregation.

How often are elders identified by their “position” to visiting jws. Or ex-Bethelite, ex-CO, regular pioneer, elder’s wife. How many hear, that’s sister “husband not a jw” she’s not as strong as she could be…..

Yes, he that as endured to the end….not like Solomon who got off the train before the end…not a success.

18 Reflecting on the above, you can see
that faithfulness to God is not linked to
prominence, education, financial standing,
or social status; nor is faithfulness
dependent on intelligence, talent,
or ability. In whatever circumstances we
may find ourselves, we can prove faithful
to God. Among God’s people in the first
century, some were rich, others were
poor. To the former, Paul’s counsel “to
work at good, to be rich in fine works,
to be liberal, ready to share” was valid.
Both those rich and those poor could
“get a firm hold on the real life.” (1 Tim.
6:17-19) That is true today too. All of us
have the same opportunity and the same
responsibility: We must remain faithful
and be “rich in fine works.” If we are, we
will be successful in the eyes of our Creator
and have the joy of knowing that we
are pleasing him.—Prov. 27:11.

COMMENTS

faithfulness to God is not linked to
prominence, education, financial standing,
or social status; nor is faithfulness
dependent on intelligence, talent,
or ability.

But it doesn’t hurt if you are Katherine or Rebbie Jackson, Prince, Larry Graham, Oracene Williams, the family with the 5,000 SF house, RV, sports car, cruises, skiing trips, expensive clothes, jewelry, who donate a lot of money to their local congregation, the CO and DO, and the WTS. Lawyers, nurses, doctors, professors, etc.,

19. In the matter of success, what is your resolve?

19 You may not be able to control your
circumstances completely, but you can
control how you deal with them. Strive
to be faithful whatever your circumstances
are. It is worth the effort. Be confident
that Jehovah will bless you richly—
now and throughout eternity. Never
forget the words that Jesus directed to
anointed Christians: “Prove yourself
faithful even to death, and I will give you
the crown of life.” (Rev. 2:10) That indeed
is real success!

COMMENTS

*** w87 2/1 p. 15 par. 1 Doing Our Utmost to Declare the Good News ***
“A FEW years ago, many of us thought that only those with special circumstances could pioneer,” wrote a pioneer, or full-time minister, in Japan. “It seems we were wrong. We are learning that only those with special circumstances cannot pioneer.”

The number of pioneers and jws as decreased in Japan and they disappeared from the almost monthly peak reports in the Theocratic News. Have they not been controlling how they deal with them?

Japan had a handful of Witnesses after WW 2....this number skyrocketed to 222,912 by 1998! Then something happened. Publisher figures didn't stop, they dropped by thousands over the next decade!
1998 - Publishers Peak 222,912 Congs. 3,802
EIGHT YEARS LATER----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2006 - Publisher decline 217,519 {Loss -5,357} Congs. 3,164 {loss of -638}
Basically no growth in 10 years with huge losses about an entire "District." Any ideas why? What made the Japanese who had 20-30% Increase each year for decades, drop off for the last 10 years?

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/175707/1/10-Years-Japan-losses-5-400-Publishers-and-638-Kingdom-Halls-Why

“crown of life” = no crowns for the non-anointed jws unless you count the elders, “princes” on earth.

CONCLUDING COMMENTS

Next week, YOU ARE A TRUSTED STEWARD (paragraph 3 Luke 12:42-44). Is this preparation for saying that non-anointed jws are now stewards?

Love, Blondie
 
Crisis of Conscience
Crisis of Conscience 3 years ago

Here you go blondie!
(For others, this is the illustration on pg. 7 of the article.)


 
cptkirk
cptkirk 3 years ago

LMAO!!!!!! what happened to guns blazing sticking his hands through fire Paul? THEY CASTRATED HIM? LMAO. OK GUYS LISTEN UP, OUR REPRESENTATION OF THE TRUTH TURNS OUT MAYBE NOT SO GOOD, SO WE ARE GOING WITH A NEW LOOK! ALL IN FAVOR? THE I'S HAVE IT, PUT PAUL IN A WOMAN'S BATHROBE SET COMPLETE WITH SCARF AND POCKET BOOK.
 
The Song Remains The Same
The Song Remains The Same 3 years ago

Info on Prof Bruner found on Wiki

Bruner became a Christian under the teaching of Henrietta Mears at the First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood. It was there that he met his wife Kathy and discerned his call to be a professor.
He taught at the Union Theological Seminary in Manila, Philippines from 1964-1975. From 1975-1997, Dr. Bruner taught at Whitworth College in Spokane, Washington. Since then he has been at the Fuller Theological Seminary, in Pasadena, California working on commentary on the Gospel of John. Dr. Bruner has a passion for connecting and working with scholarship on biblical narrative. He has traveled around the country speaking at hundreds of Presbyterian Churches.
Bruner then taught New Testament theology at Whitworth University in Spokane, Washington for 22 years beginning in 1975 and retiring in 1997. He held the position of George & Lyda Wasson Professor of Religion. [ 2 ] He has spoken and taught at churches all over the United States. [ 3 ]
I'm not up on all this, but i doubt the Presbetarian Church and the WTBTS are close affiliates given what i've understood how the WT views other churches? I told my want-to-be-JW wife to bring this up today... But she won't.

 
LoisLane looking for Superman
LoisLane looking for Superman 3 years ago

Thank you Blondie.
Just Lois
 
hoser
hoser 3 years ago

Great review as usual Blondie
 
WTWizard
WTWizard 3 years ago

I hope eternal damnation for the scumbag that wrote up this washtowel article. This assures people to be in a poverty mindset, which leads to future lifetimes of poverty. You give up material security, and for what? People quitting school or cutting way back on secular work, so they can pious-sneer. Then they are destitute in their senior years, and one good emergency away from disaster. Never mind not having the pleasure of anything material. And what they do earn, they waste.
To put this waste into perspective, I presume that they wish to donate 32 toilet papers a month to the Worldwide Pedophile Defense Fund. Add one suit dry cleaning and gas money or spending money on rides, and you are up to around 56 toilet papers a month. (And the actual amount could well be much higher, even if hyperinflation doesn't show up yet). I computed that, to get the next generation of Pokemon and play it properly, you will need two Nintendo 3DS systems, one cartridge of Pokemon X, and one cartridge of Pokemon Y. The games are coming out late October. This will cost about 8 months of expenses of the witlesses--each and every month, each publisher that wastes this amount of money on theocraptic rubbish is losing out on 1/8 of all the equipment needed to play Pokemon X and Y. And that doesn't even touch the funds they are losing for lost earnings.
With this mindset of never being able to enjoy anything, it is no wonder the witlesses are dull. Plus, they are getting negative spiritual value from this investment. They are not developing their souls in any way, shape, or form while they are wasting their money. They think all they need is to read the LIE-ble and littera-trash based around it, go in field circus to peddle the rubbish, and make all the boasting sessions while avoiding condemned activities (including anything that would actually enhance your spirituality) to be saved.
Destitution. Not having anything that is fun. No time for fun. Always being tired and never enjoying life. Spiritual damnation. Does this sound like the recipe for success? And it matters not whether you think you are going to succeed. If all it took to succeed was to think you are going to, I could get rich simply by falling for every Nigerian scam I could find, since that would force me to get rich--and then enjoy the money. But, since there is more than believing it's the right thing to do, I am not going online for Nigerian scams to get into. And I do not recommend falling for the washtowel scam.
 
wasblind
wasblind 3 years ago

Girl, you showed OFF !!!!! on this thread
The sister who conducted my bible study, often pointed out
details in the illustrations

one time she pointed out how close that fire ball was to the feet of the statue
you know, the statue that now has the feet of mixed clay

She told me in each illustration that ball got closer to the feet
which means I had to make a decision and fast

Next time they come to my door, I think I'll draw a Watchtower
fallin' to the ground. Each time they come 'round I'll compare
my new pic to the old one I drew

I'll give them the same warnin' I got " Time is short " get out now . TIMBER !!!!!!!!!!!

.
 
wasblind
wasblind 3 years ago

Girl, you showed OFF !!!!! on this thread
The sister who conducted my bible study, often pointed out
details in the illustrations

one time she pointed out how close that fire ball was to the feet of the statue
you know, the statue that now has the feet of mixed clay

She told me in each illustration that ball got closer to the feet
which means I had to make a decision and fast

Next time they come to my door, I think I'll draw a Watchtower
fallin' to the ground. Each time they come 'round I'll compare
my new pic to the old one I drew

I'll give them the same warnin' I got " Time is short " get out now . TIMBER !!!!!!!!!!!

.
 
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 3 years ago

So are the non-anointed "domestics" also "stewards" who recieve the "crown of life"?  Loved Paul's man bag! Apparently he was going from memory, or had the first ever codex tucked away in his murse. I didn't see any scrolls..

Good observations as usual Blondie!
 
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 3 years ago

Our CO (late 40s/early 50s) recently said that he was glad he had met his wife who derailed his plans to go to Bethel, as if he was now and Bethel they would be asking him to pack is bags along with all the other 50-year olds and where would he be??? Thankfully, he's in the Circuit Work.
So much for suggesting young people make a "career" out of Bethel. They'll bleed you dry of all your youthful energy and send you packing when you medical risks become too high (unless of course you're a member of the Writing Committee, Service Dept, Teaching Committee, or Governing Body -- they never send them old farts home).
Take notice you young JWs.
Doc
 
heathen
heathen 3 years ago

didn't seem to make sense to talk about solomon there and then try to convince people that material wealth is not going to make people happy but again obedience will, as I see they don't want to use the word obedience like they used to ,thanks to this board and the spying going on, probably . Solomon is a horrible example , the song of solomon is just as disgusting with all the polygamy going on there but I'm thinking since solomon was the only son left alive he was the only one that could deliver the promise of the messiah by davids house . The apostle Paul is usually contradicting himself and jesus , jesus told the little flock to sell all their worldly possesions and give gifts of mercy to the poor and there's the apostle Paul stating it's ok to keep your stuff just keep up with the preaching work . Of course according to the WTBTS the bible doesn't contradict itself so then noone better say it does, or else . should have been a gag alert there ,lol
 
JW GoneBad
JW GoneBad 3 years ago

About paragraph 14: Here’s an interesting quote from Professor F. Dale Bruner:
"I am deeply grateful to God for the privilege of studying and teaching what I believe with the Church is the single most important subject in the world: The gospel of Jesus Christ."
The GB and WT should take a lesson from the Professor and place more emphasis in their own publications on the single most important subject in the world….Jesus Christ! And less talk about an adulterer, fornicator, murderer, schemer and cheat…..King David!
 
BluesBrother
BluesBrother 3 years ago

Do I detect a different shade of emphasis in this article? Not the blanket rejection of material things that we are used to
Par 14


A person’s earthly treasure may be  more than just money. In a sense, it could include any of those things that Solomon wrote about that have to do with being successful in the eyes of men —prestige, fame, or power.
Par 15


Some religious leaders have preached that it is wrong to strive after success and that all effort to succeed should be stifled. Note, though, that Jesus was not condemning all such effort. Rather, he was exhorting his disciples to redirect their effort
So it is not wrong to seek money and worldly success, just put "The kingdom first"..as always....After all the flock need money to buy those ipads that the Borg want them to use in the Ministry !
 
Apognophos
Apognophos 3 years ago

I read that a bit differently. "Could include" seemed intended to expand the reach of "earthly treasure" that a person should not be accumulating; now it's not just money, but also "prestige, fame, or power".
And in par. 15, I thought it was strange that the Society set up a ridiculous strawman before the seemingly reasonable statement by Jesus. What religious leaders have preached that "all effort to succeed should be stifled"?! Then again, I suppose if I'd actually heard of such a message, those preachers would be hypocrites, wouldn't they? :wink:
But it seemed to me to be a way of saying, "Now, some people say all success is bad, but we're going to be more lenient than that and allow for some effort at success. Isn't that nice of us?" At least, that was my thought during the study.
 
frankiespeakin
frankiespeakin 3 years ago

The Governing Body have become the masters of "black and white thinking"and "tremendous leaps in logic" to support thier delusions as they force and tie unrelated point together, as can be seen in this and all WTs.
Such type of thinking has got to lead to all sorts of problems it seems like they are hell bent to stay in this delusionary state, and lashing out in anger towards anyone who disagrees with them among the rank and file.
http://psychcentral.com/lib/2007/identifying-irrational-thoughts/
Leaps in logic. Making seemingly logic-based statements, even though the process that led to the idea was missing obvious steps. Jumping to conclusions, often negative ones.
“All or nothing” thinking. Being unable to see shades of gray in everyday life can lead to major misperceptions and even despair. A person who thinks only in black-and-white terms can’t comprehend small successes. He’s either an abject failure or a complete success, never simply on his way to doing better.
Paranoia. In its extreme forms, paranoia slides into the realm of delusion. Many bipolar people experience less severe forms of paranoia because of personalizing events, catastrophizing, or making leaps in logic.

Delusional thinking. Most of the other thought styles mentioned above are mildly delusional. Seriously delusional thinking has even less basis in reality, and can include holding persistently strange beliefs.
 
5
10
20


 
Share this topic






Related Topics




Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/245592/blondies-comments-you-will-hear-02-03-2013-wt-study-real-success





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Celebrity JWs and exJWs
/  





 

Celebrity JWs and exJWs
by Lady Lee 6 years ago 31 Replies latest 6 years ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20
Lady Lee
Lady Lee 6 years ago

There is quite a list many I have never heard of. I've done this before but this adds a lot of names - a lot
◦ ◾Gregg Alexander - The New Radicals' lead singer; raised by mother
◾Papa Dee Allen of the 70s-80s rock group War. Passed away during a concert
◾Peter Andre - Inactive - Singer raised in Australia, presently living in London with wife pin up model *Jordan
◾George Benson - Active - musician
◾Maurizio Bianchi - Musician
◾Cheryl Bradley - Executive Housekeeper
◾Ivana Brkic - Croatian Musician
◾Richard Cameron - Dutch Musician
◾Naomi Campbell - Inactive - Model -
◾Valerie Campbell - Active - model - Mother of Naomi Campbell
◾Tom Edur - Former NHLice hockey player.
◾Ida Eisenhower mother of Dwight President of USA - Inactive - Politician Meetings were held in his family home. It makes sense that he probably attended some of those. He was never baptized as a JW. His father stopped attending around 1914/1915 when Dwight was about 24 or 25. Dwight graduated from West Point in 1915.
◾Kid Gavilan - welterweight champion boxer; elected to boxing Hall of Fame in 1990 (convert to JWs)
◾Larry Graham - Active - Musician - Sly & the Family Stone
◾Danny Granger - professional basketball player (Indiana Pacers)
◾Teresa Graves - actress, star of TV movie and TV series "Get Christie Love!" (convert to JWs)
◾Gary Gygax - Co-creator of Dungeons & Dragons.
◾Geri Halliwell - Inactive - Musician - Spice Girls
◾Roy Harper - songwriter, musician (raised)
◾Anthony Henderson - Famous quick tongued rap artist
◾Dave Hill - musician, Lead Guitarist and back vocals for Slade (convert)
◾Kim Holland - Dutch porn star (former JW)
◾Terrence Howard - actor; Ray, Hustle & Flow, etc.
◾The Jackson Family -- We all know about the Jackson family. I think the only ones who are still JW is the mother, oneof the older sisters, Rebbie. Mother/grandmother Katherine has been seen taking Michael's 3 kids to the hall.
◾Lord Jamar of the band Nubians - Inactive - Musician
◾JaRule - Inactive - Musician
◾Scott Johnson - Actor
◾K-os - Canadian R&B artist ; Raised Jehovah's Witness
◾Margaret Keane - Artist who said converting "changed her life."[1]
◾Peter Knowles  - Famous soccer player in England who quit his football career in 1970 aged 24 to join the Jehovah's Witnesses.
◾Krazyzie Bone - Inactive - Musician
◾La Lupe - Cuban salsa singer (convert)
◾Phillip Landry - Musican
◾Chet Lemon - professional baseball player (Detroit Tigers)
◾Brian Locking - Bass guitarist with The Shadows for eighteen months, but left to Jehovah's Witnesses activities.
◾Evelyn Mandela - first wife of South African president Nelson Mandela (convert to JWs)
◾Hank Marvin - Active - Musician
◾Mark McCumber - professional golfer
◾Jerry Lee Merrit, Rockabilly Hall Of Fame member
◾Dave Meyers - professional basketball player (Los Angeles Lakers in 1970s and later for the Milwaukee Bucks)
◾Thelonius Monk : Musician
◾Rene Montes de Oca Martija - dissident human-rights activist in Cuba (son of JW)
◾Van Morrison . He was taken to the Kingdom Hall as a child by his mother.
◾Miki Nakatani - Japanese Actress, Raised as a Jehovah's Witness
◾Dave Mustaine of the band Megadeth - Inactive - Musician
◾Gloria Naylor - novelist, author of The Women of Brewster Place (1982, American Book Award)
◾Viv Nicholson - famous London lottery winner in 1961. She then became a devout JW.
◾Evelyn Ntoko (first wife of Nelson Mandela
◾Mark O'Meara,golfer
◾Rustom Padilla - Filipino movie star
◾Angelo Palego - leader of team searching for Noah's Ark
◾Dave Pear - NFL professional football player for Colts, Buccaneers, and Raiders (convert)
◾Shont'e Peoples - professional football player (Saskatchewan Roughriders); convert to JWs
◾Selena Quintanilla Perez - Tejano singer; raised Jehovah's Witnesses
◾Prince - Active or inactive? - Musician
◾Nemesis Rising - Jacob and Joshua - Inactive
◾Herman Pizzanelli - leading Uruguayan concert guitarist in the 1960s (convert to JWs)
◾Ken Richmond - The man who banged the gong in the Rank Organisation film logo from 1955 onward.
◾Michelle Rodriguez - Inactive actress, Lost
◾Solveig Romero - Mexico and Switzerland, Actress and wife of Martin Campbell, the director of James Bond Casino RoyaleMiu Sakamoto - Japanese Singer,
◾John Salley raised a JW
◾Travis Scott - NFL football player for Rams (raised JW)
◾Jill Scott - R&B/neo-soul singer-poet raised a JW
◾Selena - Tejano singer (Selena Quintanilla)
◾Maher Shalal Hash Baz - Japanese musician, name comes from the Book of Isaiah
◾Sherri Shepherd - Inactive - TV presenter on The View
◾Patti Smith - punk rock star
◾Richard Sohl? Pianist. Died. with Patti Smith's group
◾Mickey Spillane - best-selling crime novelist (convert to JWs)
◾Damo Suzuki (Converted in the 1970s, current membership status uncertain)
◾Carol M. Swain - political scientist; professor at Vanderbilt University; author; left the Witnesses at the age of 20, in 1975
◾Bobby Tambling - English footballer
◾Phil Terry - member of the 60's R&B group The Intruders.
◾Jean Terrell - Replaced Diana Ross in the Supremes in 1970.
◾David Thomas - songwriter/vocalist for Pere Ubu (convert to JWs)
◾Akira Toriyama - Japanese Mangaka(Cartoonist), Author of Dragon Ball (Manga)
◾Yoshito Usui - Japanese Mangaka, Author of Crayon Shin-chan
◾Carmina Villarroel - Filipino actress
◾Leo J. Volpe (1916–13 April 2000) was a draft resister and conscientious objectoras a JW during World War 2. In 1973, after leaving the Jehovah's Witnesses, he founded The Restored Israel of Yahweh, whose members believe that Volpe is the prophet Jeremiah resurrected
◾Reena Virk - Canadian child murder victim
◾Lark Voorhies - TV/movie actress Saved by the Bell
◾Wayan Brothers and Sisters : Damon, Dwayne, Keenen, Ivory, Kim, Nadia, Marlon, Shawn - Mostly Inactive - Actors
◾Lou Whitaker - professional baseball player (Detroit Tigers)
◾Venus and Serena Williams - Active - tennis -- really???? active???
◾Chuck Winfield - Former Trumpet player for Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
◾Willie Wise - NBA professional basketball player for Seattle Super Sonics and Denver Nuggets
◾Akiko Yano - Japanese Singer, Former wife of Ryuichi Sakamoto
◾Hinano Yoshkawa - Inactive - Japanese Model
◾XZibit - Inactive – Musician

 
glenster
glenster 6 years ago

http://www.adherents.com/people/pm/Van_Morrison.html
Davis: There's a lot of the gospelsound in your music. Is it true your family were Jehovah's Witnesses?



Van Morrison: No no no no, not really. My mother was in it for a while, a brief encounter, that was all.
Davis:: Were you taken door-to-door as a child with the Witnesses?
Van Morrison: No, but I was taken to a couple of meetings. I found them quite pleasant, but that was all.
 
behemot
behemot 6 years ago

Add this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tori_Kudo
and this (this guy is an elder in Italy):
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sammy_Barbot
 
Caligula1
Caligula1 6 years ago

Lady Lee, glenster, behemot
Thanks
 
BabaYaga
BabaYaga 6 years ago

Criminey! There are a lot there that I recognize and I never had any idea about the JW affiliation.
Thanks for the updated list, Lady Lee!
 
behemot
behemot 6 years ago

I didn't find any evidence about Thelonius Monk ever being a JW, it seems his mother was one:
"Monk's imperturbability, bordering on stoicism, has enabled him to stand up under an obstacle-strewn life. The fact that his mother, Barbara, a former civil service worker, was a Jehovah's Witness may account for Monk's detachment from worldly concerns. "I don't believe in luck, good or bad," Monk once declared, "If a guy's good, he'll make it. If not, he won't."
source: http://id3512.securedata.net/theloniousrecords/Profiles_interviews/Frank%20London%20Brown.htm
 
not sure yet
not sure yet 6 years ago

One person on this list is my brother. He was raised a witness but never baptized, he left around highschool years. He's very respectful, though.
 
palmtree67
palmtree67 6 years ago

I knew Shonte Peoples very well.
He was df'ed (in absentia) about 4 years ago. I know he's remarried and living in the States again. I doubt he's back in, although his dad is a JW elder.
 
possible-san
possible-san 6 years ago

Well, Mr. Yoshito Usui (Japanese Mangaka, Author of Crayon Shin-chan) has passed away in September, last year (2009).
He went to a mountain (Mt. Arafune) alone, and fell over a 394 feet (120m) cliff and died.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshito_Usui
Although the police has said, "He did not commit suicide", I think that that is doubtful.
The comic/manga (Crayon Shin-chan) which he draws is "vulgar/obscene" and do not harmonize with the morality of JW.


I feel that his "trouble" was there.
possible
 
Lady Lee
Lady Lee 6 years ago

wow P-san
I would suspect suicide too
 
Dagney
Dagney 6 years ago

I didn't see Ronnie Laws, (jazz/R&B musician) on the list. Dunno if he is "in" ATM. I am not too good googling, didn't find anything personal about him when I searched. But he was part of that whole LA JW 80's music scene.
Oh just remembered.. http://www.bennygolson.com/
He was the subject in the movie "The Terminal" with Tom Hanks. It was Golson's autograph the character was trying to get.
 
Tuesday
Tuesday 6 years ago

There's a great article about how being a Jehovah's Witness child causes you to be really creative. I'll have to see if I can find the link. I've wanted to do an interview with alot of celebrities about growing up a JW for a while now. If only I could find funding LOL.
 
Incognito
Incognito 6 years ago

Lady Lee,

I was told many years ago, a member of Gordon Lightfoot's band was an active JW and was a member of my S/O's congregation, when we were then dating.
Apparently guitarist Red Shea converted to JW's according to this blog entry http://knockingjw.blogspot.com/2008/10/six-degrees-of-separation.html
Although the blog seems to substantiate a JW tie-in to the Lightfoot Band, Red Shea is not the person that was pointed out to me at the KH.
I recall, the person pointed out looked similar to bassist Rick H http://www.lightfoot.ca/profiles.htm (top photo, leaning against the bus) but his name is not the name I was told.
I cannot find any references to the name I was given, but I will keep looking.
 
sd-7
sd-7 6 years ago

Selena was raised in? THE Selena??? Get out!
 
blondie
blondie 6 years ago

Yes, Oracene Williams is a jw....not her x-husband though. Venus and SeRena Williams at one point were unbaptized publishers, but I don't think they are any more. At one point they went to the West Palm Beach FL congregation.
 
Lady Lee
Lady Lee 6 years ago

Thanks for the additions
 
jam
jam 6 years ago

You can add Brian Holland (pro. basketball) and the famous world known Rodney King,,Both
from Pasdena Ca. area.
 
Quandry
Quandry 6 years ago

Tom Reynolds, from the band Hamilton, Joe, Frank and Reynolds. I used to live in Florida, and he lived around Sanford or Altamonte Springs, I think. He gave talks at our KHall in Deltona.
 
littlepixie
littlepixie 6 years ago

Never knew Peter Andre was at one time a JW although I could have guessed it.
 
Think About It
Think About It 6 years ago

I remember a couple other ball players having some type of JW connection. (Sam Perkins- NBA Rudy Law- MLB)
 

«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
Terry
I Guess I'll Tell My John DeLorean story ...
by Terry 4 months ago
Wonderment
How credible are NWT's critiques?: Allin and John 8:58. (2)
by Wonderment a month ago
Wonderment
How credible are NWT critiques? A look at Allin's evaluation of Jn 8:58.
by Wonderment a month ago
Wonderment
The mistranslation of John 8.58
by Wonderment 2 months ago
coalize
The Noah's ark : What a nonsense!
by coalize a year ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/190811/celebrity-jws-exjws





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Celebrity JWs and exJWs
/  





 

Celebrity JWs and exJWs
by Lady Lee 6 years ago 31 Replies latest 6 years ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20
possible-san
possible-san 6 years ago

Lady Lee.
Thank you for your reply.
My intention is not for blaming him (Yoshito Usui).
Originally, only his wife is a JW and he was an unbeliever husband.
In my opinion, when he became a JW, his tragedy started.
When he shows his "talent", it was contrary to the morality of JW.

I think that "the cause of his death" is in the JW's doctrine, IMO.
Probably he did not need to die.
possible
 
Caligula1
Caligula1 6 years ago

Jam - Is that the Rodney King that got beat up by police about 10 years ago?
Tuesday - What type of funding is needed?
 
Quillsky
Quillsky 6 years ago

I find these celebrity-JW threads interesting, as do most of us, but still feel sad that just being touched by the Witnesses (attending a few meetings as a child for example) forever associates one with the cult.
Sends shivers up my spine.
 
TheOldHippie
TheOldHippie 6 years ago

I forgot his name ....... a famous US opera/operette singer from 40s around, recorded JW songs as well, sang duets with Ginger Rogers or the like - ah! cannot remember the name ...........
 
jam
jam 6 years ago

Caligula, Yes the same guy. When he was a teenager I took him fishing with other young men in the
cong.He attend the meetings but never baptize. I believe he have family members still in,in the Altadena
cong. in California.
 
cantleave
cantleave 6 years ago

The "Noise Next Door" an band of triplets from Portsmoth in the UK. They had a couple of minor chart hits. Mother a witness, father not. They attended meetings until they in their teens.
 
littlebird
littlebird 6 years ago

◦Gary Gygax - Co-creator of Dungeons & Dragons.
That one really suprised me. They were playing the game in school, when my kids were little and all the witness parents in the area were in an uproar.
 
coffee_black
coffee_black 6 years ago

"Fang" from Paul Revere and the Raiders. I went to a concert at Disney over 25 years ago and he and his band performed... I forget what they were called....
Karen Carpenter and her brother Richard studied with Jack Doherty (from the Toluca Lake cong in CA) He discovered them. He worked for Herb Alpert...
My aunt and uncle (who was in circuit and district work in the 50s and 60s knew Andy Williama...and said he was in for a while....
Coffee
 
steve2
steve2 6 years ago

Two more names (sorry if I missed them on the list):
Eve Arden (Hollywood actress 1940s?)
George Benson (well known jazz musician/singer who broke through into the big time in the mid to late 70s - early 80s with platinum selling albums)
 
steve2
steve2 6 years ago

Two more:
Prince  (strange he wasn't on the list. I heard that he had been an inactive JW through most of the 80s and 90s and promised his mother on her death bed a few years ago that he would re-commit to the organization)
Huey "Piano" Smith (a seminal rock and roll figure who struggled to match the success of his two million selling hits in the late 1950s "Rockin' Pneumonia and the Boogie Woogie Flu" and "Don't You Just Know It". The Watchtower's account states that he quit the music industry when he was at the height of his fame, but reliable music sources (e.g., the Virgin Encyclopeadia of 50s Music, 2002, page 406) state that he was unable to maintain his success and "forsook music in favor of preaching").
 
Titus
Titus 6 years ago

I know Ivana Brkic.
She is a regular pioneer, and very famous musician.



 
pr0ner
pr0ner 6 years ago

Just a side note I would hardly call Kimberly Holland a "porn star". She posed for Playboy which is like posing for Maxim these days.
 

«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
there is quite a list many i have never heard of.
i've done this before but this adds a lot of names - a lot.
gregg alexander - the new radicals' lead singer; raised by mother papa dee allen of the 70s-80s rock group war.



Related Topics
Terry
I Guess I'll Tell My John DeLorean story ...
by Terry 4 months ago
Wonderment
How credible are NWT's critiques?: Allin and John 8:58. (2)
by Wonderment a month ago
Wonderment
How credible are NWT critiques? A look at Allin's evaluation of Jn 8:58.
by Wonderment a month ago
Wonderment
The mistranslation of John 8.58
by Wonderment 2 months ago
coalize
The Noah's ark : What a nonsense!
by coalize a year ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/190811/celebrity-jws-exjws?page=2&size=20





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ jesse jackson,cnn now, i am going to hurl
/  





 

jesse jackson,cnn now, i am going to hurl
by orbison11 7 years ago 25 Replies latest 7 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20
orbison11
orbison11 7 years ago

jesse is saying katherine knows she will see mj again, due to her faith
(where is my hurl icon)
 
rebel8
rebel8 7 years ago

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton pimp every tragedy and media frenzy to make themselves appear indispensable and get attention on themselves, IMHO. Lowlifes.
 
orbison11
orbison11 7 years ago

i was a jw during the thriller period
it was big talk amongst all the jw's i knew
i wonder if this will bring on another 'speach' from headquarters
 
rebel8
rebel8 7 years ago

Yeah, probably. Far be it from them to miss the opportunity to underscore the "fact" that everyone who leaves jehoobie becomes a drug addict and dies young.
 
DJK
DJK 7 years ago

Can you imagine what he would say if he didn't have enough respect and intelligence to keep his mouth shut?
 
AudeSapere
AudeSapere 7 years ago

jesse is saying katherine knows she will see mj again, due to her faith
And most people who hear that think she means she will see him in heaven. Jesse himself may think that. Who knows??
-Aude.
 
Yizuman
Yizuman 7 years ago

Figures he'd show up after fat Al Sharpen reared his ugly butthead in the media scene taking advantage of MJ's death. Very classy Al! NOT!
Rev Jesse Jackson is another nutcase just like Sharpen. I'll let this link explain it all for ya. (PDF format)
He's a real turd!
Yiz
 
orbison11
orbison11 7 years ago

very true
i know i would have been raked over the coals if i associated with 'wordly' folks like they do
my x was in the entertainment industry, the elders controlled even the songs he was allowed to sing, not to record, etc
was a thorn in my side, (although i did not like the industry he was in) was the audicity (sp) of the elders to tell him how to live his life, when we saw the lifestyle of the jacksons, etc
orb
 
free2beme
free2beme 7 years ago

Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are the image of media whores! They depend on uneducated, ignorant black people to actually not see it. This is not raciest, for they know that if people of their color educate themselves and be good intelligent members of this society; they see these two the same exact way as I do.
 
Yizuman
Yizuman 7 years ago

Ya see, the thing is, I've dealt with along with millions of others at one time or another get a race card shove into our faces.
I'm so sick of people using race and disability as a crutch to get things they want.
I help scan and bag stuff for black customers, doing everything what I've always been doing for the last 25 years, greet and smile, be all friendly and encourage them to come back.
Then he pulls a race card, I'm all like "huh?" and he goes, "What you just said, that's racist!"
"What did I say that made you think it was racist?"
"You said to come back soon! That's racist man!"
(WTF?)
Then it hits me, he's pulling a scam and a lame one at that. He musta had a hard time finding something wrong with me and just pulled my last quote out of his ass and made it racist. Uh, ok, whatever. I decided to let the manager handle this and lucky me the turd turned just long enough for me to sign "crazy" to my boss, so he was prepared for what was coming. Dunno the end and don't wanna know. Left it at that.
Bottom line is, I'm sick of the race card coming from anyone not white. They're using it as a crutch to get what they want and sadly some fall victim to their bullying tactics.
Unfortunantly, it's not ending anytime soon.
Yiz
 
crapola
crapola 7 years ago

I don't know about everyone else but I'm getting sick of hearing about Michael Jackson.
He'd still be alive if not for drugs. Only my opinion.
 
heathen
heathen 7 years ago

 allow me, this is as close as it gets. It even made me sick whenever cnn showed the cloud cover in NY city and people thought they could see MJ in the clouds , give me a break please.
 
Violia
Violia 7 years ago

Yes, both Jesse and Al and that other guy ,Flip ( the JW one)or something, they are low life bottom feeders.
 
ohiocowboy
ohiocowboy 7 years ago

Al Sharpton is wanting the Post Office come out with MJ stamps and a National Day of mourning! There are other people who have died that have done a lot more incredible things that would be worthy of such an honor! I can't believe he is butting his way into all things having to do with MJ since his death. Well, actually I can, anything to try to give himself notoriety, even using someone's death for his own publicity... I think that a genuine person such as Bill Cosby would garner so much respect that it would truly unite people instead of people such as Sharpton who are only in it for personal gain and attention.
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-sharpton-jackson-stamp,0,2019426.story
Sharpton Calls for Jackson Postage Stamp and Day of Mourning
KTLA News
4:34 PM PDT, July 5, 2009
Attention Whore Al

Sharpton speaks at a press conference outside the Jackson home in Encino ( Getty Images / June 29, 2009)
LOS ANGELES-- Reverend Al Sharpton is using his Sunday appearance at The First A.M.E. Church in South Los Angeles to call for a U.S. Postage stamp honoring Michael Jackson, as well as national day of mourning.
Sharpton faces a steep challenge in getting the stamp approved, as commemorative stamps cannot even be considered until 5 years after the subject's death, according to the U.S. Postal Service.
The only exception to the rule is for deceased U.S. Presidents, who have traditionally been honored with a stamp released on their birthdays, following date of death.
Releasing a commemorative stamp could be a financial boon for the Postal Service as Michael Jackson memorabilia has reportedly been selling in high volumes and in some cases for significantly higher prices after the music icon's passing.
The 1993 commemorative stamp for Elvis Presley became the best-selling U.S. stamp to date with 124.1 million stamps sold, according to figures released by the USPS. Many of the units sold were reportedly kept as souvenirs, rather than used as postage.
Sharpton has been working closely with Joe Jackson and the Jackson family to help plan memorial services and handle other issues left after the unexpected death of Michael Jackson.
During Sunday's sermon he called for nationwide "love vigils" for Michael Jackson on Tuesday, the same day a public memorial will be held at Staples Center.
He urged people to gather in schools, community centers and churches to honor Jackson.
 
Bangalore
Bangalore 7 years ago

What about Louis Farakkhan?

Bangalore
 
BizzyBee
BizzyBee 7 years ago

He urged people to gather in schools, community centers and churches to honor Jackson.

How about we just worship MJ in front of our TVs? (Like we have for the past week.)
 
Yizuman
Yizuman 7 years ago

Oh great, Al Sharpen is now trying to get kids to lick Michael Jackson? Ewwwwwwwwww!
 
Gregor
Gregor 7 years ago

The irony! MJ spent a small fortune trying to erase his negroid features. Why hasn't the black community seen the racism in this bizarre, frankenstein morphing?
 
out4good3
out4good3 7 years ago

Uhhhnnnn.......the morphing of MJ to remove any traces of himself being a negro has not gone unnoticed in the black community. It is a very rare almost unheard of case that a black man and a white woman can produce blue eyed blond haired kids.
 
steve2
steve2 7 years ago

Of course she will see him again. And maybe sooner than she thinks. Just as sightings of Elvis occurred frequently after his death, so too we can expect a rash of sightings of the Gloved One.
 

«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
blondie
Blondie's Highlights from 11-15-2015 WT (FAITH)
by blondie 4 months ago
Terry
FAITH is another word for OPINION
by Terry 2 years ago
Watchtower-Free
Jehovah's Witnesses now trying to infiltrate a Hospital
by Watchtower-Free a year ago
AFRIKANMAN
INDIA: CELEBRATING A BOLD FAITH
by AFRIKANMAN a year ago
cappytan
Losing Faith
by cappytan a year ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/178201/jesse-jackson-cnn-now-am-going-hurl






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ jesse jackson,cnn now, i am going to hurl
/  





 

jesse jackson,cnn now, i am going to hurl
by orbison11 7 years ago 25 Replies latest 7 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20
out4good3
out4good3 7 years ago

She's gonna meet him pretty soon in the lateral position. She is 79 years old.
 
Waffles
Waffles 7 years ago

Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Farakahn are all a cancer on the face of the black race.
 
Finally-Free
Finally-Free 7 years ago

I don't know about everyone else but I'm getting sick of hearing about Michael Jackson.
Relax, and take a stresstab. It hasn't even started yet. This must be hyped to the point where it outdoes the passings of Elvis, Lenon, the Kennedy's, the Pope, Princess Di and Winston Churchill all combined. Once the hype begins to fade, it will be bolstered with MJ sightings, stories of aliens abducting MJ, and MJ crop circles.
I think it's time to cancel the cable TV.
W
 
snowbird
snowbird 7 years ago


The irony! MJ spent a small fortune trying to erase his negroid features. Why hasn't the black community seen the racism in this bizarre, frankenstein morphing?
It hasn't gone unnoticed; it's just that, on the whole, we are a tolerant, forgiving people.

Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Farakahn are all a cancer on the face of the black race.
Farrakhan, Jackson, and Sharpton may be blisters or warts, but they're no cancers.
I am Black, so trust me on that one.
Sylvia
 
mrsjones5
mrsjones5 7 years ago

Just don't turn to any of the major network stations right now. I was gonna watch Animal Planet but Judge Mathis is on and will do well enough.
 
shamus100
shamus100 7 years ago

This must be hyped to the point where it outdoes the passings of Elvis, Lenon, the Kennedy's, the Pope, Princess Di and Winston Churchill all combined. Once the hype begins to fade, it will be bolstered with MJ sightings, stories of aliens abducting MJ, and MJ crop circles.
I think it's time to cancel the cable TV.
*&%$, W! Why do you have to be so realistic and ruin my sense that this will all be over this week? Can't I just live with delusion for a little while longer?
 

«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
jesse is saying katherine knows she will see mj again, due to her faith.
(where is my hurl icon).



Related Topics
blondie
Blondie's Highlights from 11-15-2015 WT (FAITH)
by blondie 4 months ago
Terry
FAITH is another word for OPINION
by Terry 2 years ago
Watchtower-Free
Jehovah's Witnesses now trying to infiltrate a Hospital
by Watchtower-Free a year ago
AFRIKANMAN
INDIA: CELEBRATING A BOLD FAITH
by AFRIKANMAN a year ago
cappytan
Losing Faith
by cappytan a year ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/178201/jesse-jackson-cnn-now-am-going-hurl?page=2&size=20





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Michael Jackson's parents divorcing after 60 years
/  





 

Michael Jackson's parents divorcing after 60 years
by blondie 6 years ago 7 Replies latest 6 years ago   jw friends
5
10
20
blondie
blondie 6 years ago

http://www.nme.com/news/daily-gossip/52551
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1304417/Michael-Jacksons-parents-Joe-Katherine-split-60-years.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
http://movies.ndtv.com/movie_story.aspx?Section=Movies&ID=ENTEN20100150312&subcatg=MOVIESINDIA&keyword=music&nid=45683
 
mrsjones5
mrsjones5 6 years ago

Sister Jackson is a real slow burn. She should have divorced his butt years ago.
 
keyser soze
keyser soze 6 years ago

They were really only together for the kids.
 
wasblind
wasblind 6 years ago

Personally i just don't get katherine,
she had grounds for a divorce years ago when Joe cheated on her,
Katherine picks and choose which JW rules she wants
to follow, she just as bad as Joe.
 
wasblind
wasblind 6 years ago

Of course it was her personal decision to stay with her husband
but i didn't know JW's could now divorce over difference of opinions.
 
Mattieu
Mattieu 6 years ago

Did she tell him to "beat it?"
 
keyser soze
keyser soze 6 years ago

They were so happy. I really thought those kids were gonna make it. This is the biggest shocker since Sean Penn and Madonna split up.
 
Adrianoblue
Adrianoblue 6 years ago

that family is so screwed up. they do what they want to do.
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
A.proclaimer
1914, leap years, and sticky math situation
by A.proclaimer 2 months ago
blondie
If a year is really 365 1/4 days why 360 days to calculate 1914
by blondie 2 months ago
fulltimestudent
Evidence of Human Activity in Northern Siberia 45,000 years ago.
by fulltimestudent 2 months ago
OrphanCrow
Medical Tourism and Medi-Coin - investing in bloodless medicine
by OrphanCrow 14 days ago
AndersonsInfo
Brownstoner: How the Jehovah’s Witnesses Acquired Some of Brooklyn’s Most Insanely Valuable Properties
by AndersonsInfo a month ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/197695/michael-jacksons-parents-divorcing-after-60-years





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home





Search 'katherine jackson'
First
 Next
  Gram
10
Is Will Smith studying?
by Gram in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 7 years ago
I heard that someone saw him at a DC sitting in a row behind Catherine ( Katherine) Jackson and that he is studying.

AllTimeJeff
drwtsn32
wantstoleave
6 years ago
iknowall558
5
Concern for Paris Jackson.............
by iknowall558 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 7 years ago
Mark Lester is claiming to be the biological father of Paris Jackson, but has expressed his concern about the kids ...

What-A-Coincidence
mrsjones5
donny
7 years ago
Corvin
6
Michael Jackson & 9-11.
by Corvin in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 12 years ago
. I was watching the VH-1 movie The Man In The Mirror, about Michael Jackson. . Everyone here knows that MJ was ...

little witch
blondie
little witch
12 years ago
blondie
15
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 02-03-2013 WT Study (REAL SUCCESS)
by blondie in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 3 years ago
But it doesnt hurt if you are Katherine or Rebbie Jackson, Prince, Larry Graham, Oracene Williams, the family with ...

BluesBrother
Apognophos
frankiespeakin
3 years ago
blondie
7
Michael Jackson's parents divorcing after 60 years.
by blondie in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 6 years ago
... -Jacksons-parents-Joe-Katherine-split-60-years.html?ito=feeds-newsxml. http: //movies.ndtv.com/movie_story.aspx?

Mattieu
keyser soze
Adrianoblue
6 years ago
Lady Lee
31
Celebrity JWs and exJWs.
by Lady Lee in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 6 years ago
The Jackson Family-- We all know about the Jackson family. I think the only ones who are still JW is the mother, ...

steve2
Titus
pr0ner
6 years ago
orbison11
25
jesse jackson,cnn now, i am going to hurl.
by orbison11 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 7 years ago
jesse is saying katherine knows she will see mj again, due to her faith. (where is my hurl icon).

snowbird
mrsjones5
shamus100
7 years ago
purplesofa
3
Maybe you know somebody from this list.
by purplesofa in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 11 years ago
Michelle Clarkson, Jackson, Tennessee. I can't find out whether my boyfriend Jonathon Keys is still alive or not and ...

LyinEyes
purplesofa
cruzanheart
11 years ago
First
 Next
 
 
 


Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/search/?q=katherine+jackson&cursor=False%3ACrgECp0BCoAB_7_h7LaAAAAA9w3wJuz_6Nq-jIGWkYuajJCZi9KWkZzelZqXkImel4zSiJaLkZqMjNGckJL_AHRtoKCZi4ygoP8AXZ6Pj5qRmJaRmv8Ac3RtlpGbmof_AF2rkI-WnP8Ac3Rtm5CcoJab_wBdzc7KzsnG_wBzf83Oys7Jxv8A__4QKCEE3QSQHTwbGVAAWgsJM-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






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Venus Williams ESPN Nude Religious Controversy
/  





 

Venus Williams ESPN Nude Religious Controversy
by ChuckFire 2 years ago 20 Replies latest 2 years ago   watchtower scandals
«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20
ChuckFire
ChuckFire 2 years ago


Venus Williams ESPN Nude Religious Controversy

By Mike Tuttle
June 24, 2014
Article Source:  http://www.webpronews.com/venus-williams-espn-nude-religious-controversy-2014-06?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+webpronews%2Fall+(WebProNews%3A+Index+Feed)
Venus Williams is posing nude for the 2014 issue of ESPN Body. Usually an announcement like that would be pretty normal fare when it comes to sports celebrities. Williams joins dozens of other sports stars who have posed nude or semi-nude for the annual magazine, out since 2009.
But Venus Williams’ appearance in the buff may warrant a closer look. The very first edition of Body, in 2009, featured her sister Serena, also nude. All the nudes for Body magazine are tastefully done. But the Williams sisters are raising eyebrows for their appearance for one simple reason.
The Williams sisters are Jehovah’s Witnesses. To anyone familiar with the Witness belief structure, this will cause some raised eyebrows. Jehovah’s Witnesses have a strict in-house judicial structure that would bring sanctions, including expulsion and shunning, down upon rank and file members who did something like pose nude for a magazine.
But Venus Williams doesn’t seem concerned. In fact, in this video feature about the nude appearance, she even mentions how her spirituality helps her in her life. She does not mention Jehovah’s Witnesses by name, but that is her affiliation.

Williams has also spoken in interviews in the past about her sex life. But she is unmarried. This is also something that would ordinarily result in the expulsion of a Witness member.
Are the Witnesses giving celebrities like Venus and Serena Williams a pass for their infractions? The answer may lie in how the Jehovah’s Witness structure works.
The Witnesses were formed in Pennsylvania in the late 1800′s by a religious writer named Charles Russell. He wrote books that claimed to interpret prophetic passages in the Bible, including using occult pyramidology practices in combination with Bible verses to predict the future.
Russell recruited people from among his readers into study groups and organized them into sales teams to promote his books. To this day, individual members of Jehovah’s Witnesses are still called “publishers”, hearkening back to this setup.
When Russell died, a large organization called the Watchtower Society continued to handle distribution of his many books, magazines, and tracts. The group used volunteer labor from among the faithful to do the printing, and still do to this day.
The company elected a new president who changed many things about the fledgling religion, including doing away with birthday celebrations, holidays, voting and military service, and instituting a top-down authority structure that still exists. Many people left. But the group survived, and that is what Jehovah’s Witnesses are today.
But one tenet of the Witness faith that comes to bear in the Williams sisters’ situation is that Witnesses are only beholden to the Watchtower organization once they have been baptized into the church. At the baptism ceremony, they vow loyalty to the Governing Body of the corporation.
The Witness Governing Body is a council of seven men who rule from Witness Headquarters in Brooklyn, New York. This Governing Body is the source of all doctrine and judicial direction for the church. Its members are appointed for life, though three men have resigned over the years, some of whom went on to write tell-all books about the secret meetings of the council.
Apparently, the Williams sisters, although they self-identify as Jehovah’s Witnesses, have never been baptized. Therefore, they are not, technically, members. And, therefore can not be put out according to traditional Witness judicial procedures.
So, Venus and Serena Williams are free to do whatever they like, just like the rest of the world. And they can claim to be Jehovah’s Witnesses. Many Witnesses like to point out that they count the Williams sisters among their number, as well as other celebs like Prince, bassist Larry Graham, and singer/guitarist George Benson.
But the Williams have a loophole.




 
Apognophos
Apognophos 2 years ago

Ha, interesting. I guess if they haven't been sanctioned by now, esp. with Serena already appearing in nude poses, then this won't do it either. But was Michael Jackson baptized? And they still sanctioned him over "Thriller". Then again, that was a bigger deal than anything the Williams sisters have done.
 
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 2 years ago

I think Michael Jackson was baptized. I am under the impression that the Williams sisters are not baptized. However, if they are UBPublishers, they could be removed as such.
I believe there is a larger percentage of African Americans who are JWs vs their percentage of the general population. I would wonder if the WTS is concerned about rocking the boat of the AA celebrities without good cause -- or any celebrity for that matter. Like Tom Cruise brings interest to Scientology, so too, celebrities bring interest to whatever "cause" they take on, even crazy religions.
Doc
 
HappyDad
HappyDad 2 years ago

They are disgusting! They are two big butt idiots. But the WTBTS are even bigger idiots with more than "double" standards.
HappyDad
 
NotNew
NotNew 2 years ago

I went to Walmart and seen more and much nicer...I'm just saying...almost as much at the kHall

SW
 
disposable hero of hypocrisy
disposable hero of hypocrisy 2 years ago

That's an interesting and concise summary of the history, we'll done that writer.
I wonder how much offense would be taken if I posted this on my Facebook wall?
 
leaving_quietly
leaving_quietly 2 years ago

Ha ha ha... the "vow loyalty to the Governing Body of the corporation" links here to JWN!
 
sd-7
sd-7 2 years ago

Well, if the story blows up, maybe she'll just be 'de-published', as I like to call it. Who knows? Someday she could be on JWN, huh? Nah. Probably not...
--sd-7
 
Gypsy Sam
Gypsy Sam 2 years ago

I'm thinking this is a post worthy Facebook article, with just a WOW comment and leave it at that. I stiil have a few JW's on my page. Who knows? Maybe one will read it through and start wondering...
 
Juan Viejo2
Juan Viejo2 2 years ago

Editorial...

http://jehovahswitnessreport.com/blog/venus-williams-watchtower-hypocrisy-on-display
 
millie210
millie210 2 years ago

The secret to negotiating the rapids of being a young person in the Org is to NOT get baptized.

That limits the elders control and allows your family to still associate with you.

Bad for the Society, good for young people and their families. A win/win
 
LisaRose
LisaRose 2 years ago

I say more power to them, they show other JW young people that you can resist the pressure to get baptized and life on your own terms. I see nothing disgusting about them, they are strong, athletic women. You don't have to be a skinny white woman to be beautiful.
 
J.C.
J.C. 2 years ago

Quite frankly. She has a hOT smooth body ! Who really cares what individuals do who claim to be JW ??? It's petty to pick at them and go ... Oh how hypocritical. Or. Oh look at the scandal .... It's the stuff the comes from the top down you should focus On. The building ponzi scheme. The every changing last generation. The sex abuse cover ups. Concentrate on those. That legit. The individual wing nuts. everyone has em.
 
DJS
DJS 2 years ago

Good for them. There isn't anything 'disgusting' about it. Maybe this will cause Serena to get in better shape. Venus rocks. The only thing about these sisters that is difficult to understand is why they give praise to Jehovah after they win championships, with the microphone in their face and millions watching on tv.
 
AndDontCallMeShirley
AndDontCallMeShirley 2 years ago

DJS: The only thing about these sisters that is difficult to understand is why they give praise to Jehovah after they win championships
.
Jehovah likes tennis...he is the god of "love"
 
jw07
jw07 2 years ago

The comment section is blowing up nicely :smile: TTATT one comment at a time. I kind of want there to be some blowback from the Watchtower that gets mentioned in the gossip media TMZ style sites etc. That could be some TTATT at a viral level.
 
Vidiot
Vidiot 2 years ago


millie210 - "The secret to negotiating the rapids of being a young person in the Org is to NOT get baptized. That limits the elders control and allows your family to still associate with you."
Yup; best-kept secret in Watchtowistan.
Why else do you think the GB's been pushing kiddie-baptism so hard these days?
 
Reality79
Reality79 2 years ago

LOL was just gonna post this.
 
Apognophos
Apognophos 2 years ago

I find Serena prettier but Venus has the major edge in the body department. Very nice proportions
 
Focus
Focus 2 years ago

Some weird tastes here. Still, it takes all sorts, I guess...
The key issue is similar to the MICHAEL JACKSON (pedophile rapist) one.
If the jW is a high-profile public figure, and fills the WTS coffers sufficiently, a different set of rules will apply to them...
__
Focus
("Anti- Greg Stafford" Class)
 

«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
AndersonsInfo
Reveal article: 6 ways religious exemption laws are exploited - Excellent!
by AndersonsInfo 8 days ago
ILoveTTATT2
Analysis of Brooklyn Eagle Articles related to Miracle Wheat
by ILoveTTATT2 13 days ago
The Searcher
Missionary Deceptively/Mistakenly Misquotes Scripture.........
by The Searcher 6 months ago
The Searcher
A First Stepping-Stone For Bethelites & Lurkers?
by The Searcher 5 months ago
ILoveTTATT2
The Miracle Wheat Episode: Summary
by ILoveTTATT2 18 days ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/281139/venus-williams-espn-nude-religious-controversy







Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Venus Williams ESPN Nude Religious Controversy
/  





 

Venus Williams ESPN Nude Religious Controversy
by ChuckFire 2 years ago 20 Replies latest 2 years ago   watchtower scandals
«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20
Pistoff
Pistoff 2 years ago

The Williams sisters are hypocrites.
They talk the talk and appear to 'praise' Jehovah, but their life is what the WT condemns on a regular basis: they have given their life over to tennis.
And I think that is a great thing, they are great at what they do; they should be free to pursue what their passion is.
But don't praise the witnesses, and pretend to be one; the witness leadership condemns the type of life they live, and the average BAPTIZED witness would be DF'd within days if they appeared without clothes on a magazine cover.
 

«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
venus williams espn nude religious controversy.
by mike tuttle.
june 24, 2014. article source: http://www.webpronews.com/venus-williams-espn-nude-religious-controversy-2014-06?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=feed%3a+webpronews%2fall+(webpronews%3a+index+feed).



Related Topics
AndersonsInfo
Reveal article: 6 ways religious exemption laws are exploited - Excellent!
by AndersonsInfo 8 days ago
ILoveTTATT2
Analysis of Brooklyn Eagle Articles related to Miracle Wheat
by ILoveTTATT2 13 days ago
The Searcher
Missionary Deceptively/Mistakenly Misquotes Scripture.........
by The Searcher 6 months ago
The Searcher
A First Stepping-Stone For Bethelites & Lurkers?
by The Searcher 5 months ago
ILoveTTATT2
The Miracle Wheat Episode: Summary
by ILoveTTATT2 18 days ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/281139/venus-williams-espn-nude-religious-controversy?page=2&size=20






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Williams Sisters wintnessing
/  





 

Williams Sisters wintnessing
by Joker10 13 years ago 8 Replies latest 13 years ago   jw friends
5
10
20
Joker10
Joker10 13 years ago


Sports Illustrated, Sept 21, 1998 v89 n12 p116(1)
A ringling endorsement: Venus and Serena Williams may be a lot of things, but they're not victims. (tennis stars Venus and Serena Williams are Jehovah's Witnesses and take some four to five hours a week to call on people)(Brief Article)(Column) Rick Reilly.
Full Text: COPYRIGHT 1998 Time, Inc.
THERE'S THE damn doorbell and you're still in your hangover and you just know it's those annoying Jehovah's Witnesses. So you fling the door open to ask them if they'd mind coming back next century, and who do you see standing there but Venus and Serena Williams, their beads bouncing, their braces gleaming, wanting to know if you have a minute to chat about the Lord.
"At first people are a little shocked," says Venus and Serena's mother, Oracene, who has taken them door-to-door since they were babies. "They want to talk about tennis, but we'd rather talk about the Bible."
You don't normally get the world's No. 5- and No. 19-ranked women tennis players leaning on your buzzer, but these are the Williams sisters of Palm Beach Gardens, Fla., and they haven't been within a shuttle flight of normal in years.
How many world-class tennis players were kept out of junior tournaments by their father? How many millionaire sisters have only one friend--each other? How many wear skintight, cutout tennis dresses that could make an abbot snap a rosary? How many can say they speak French and are learning Russian and Portuguese? How many sit down at a press conference and challenge reporters to look up the derivation of words? (Last week's word: ghetto.)
The Williams sisters are cocky and insular. They're also gorgeous, rich, smart, polite, gifted, well-spoken, huge and improving like mad, and they'd definitely like to get you some reading materials, if you're interested. "We go to rich neighborhoods, poor neighborhoods, everywhere," says Oracene. "People slam doors on us," says Serena, "but that's their problem. We don't take it personally."
They do take it seriously, 4 1/2 hours every week, including the time spent writing letters and cold-calling people. At last week's U.S. Open, Venus, 18, made it to the semifinals and Serena, 16, won her second Grand Slam mixed doubles title in a row, but the work they think is most important is serving up the ways of the Witnesses to other players, coaches and their families. They rush the locker room with their pocket-sized Witness books, pamphlets and copies of The Watchtower magazine. If the player doesn't speak English, they get her a book in a language she does speak.
So far, they haven't won a point. "I'm not aware of any I've converted, no," says Serena. But as their mother always says, "They might slam the door this time, but next time it might stay open."
Witnesses don't sing the national anthem, say the Pledge of Allegiance, accept blood transfusions or celebrate holidays, including Christmas, or their birthdays. They believe that Christ died on a stake, not a cross, and that exactly 144,000 people will go to heaven. They believe that the man is the head of the household and the woman is the "weaker vessel" a belief that gets a little shaky when you see 6' 2", 168-pound Venus blow her women's-record 125-mph serve by some shivering Slovak.
The only problem is that the head of the Williams household, Richard, isn't a Witness, which helps explain why he smokes like a tire fire (a definite Witness no-no) and worships graven images (himself, whom he calls King Richard). "Well," says Serena, "everybody's different."
Some people in tennis wish the entire Williams family would fall down a very deep well followed closely by a very snug lid, but the truth is, the Williams family is the best thing to happen to women's tennis since the scrunchee. Women's tennis has always had more victims than a Red Cross shelter. It's full of young girls with great backhands and facial tics. Mary Pierce needed a court order to keep her dad away. Jennifer Capriati's father threw her to the pros at 13. Just last week, Croatia's Mirjana Lucic showed up at the Open after fleeing her homeland just to escape her allegedly abusive father.
Not the Williams sisters. The Williams sisters may be a lot of things, but they're not victims. I wouldn't become a Jehovah's Witness even if its only spiritual requirement were facing toward Hershey, Pa., and eating Milk Duds, but I admire the way they're unafraid to stand up for their religion. Also the way they're unafraid of tennis's virtually all-white press, tennis's virtually all-white locker rooms and, come to think of it, virtually all-white tennis. They say what they want, say it well and hate to lose.
In other words, don't answer the door.
 
sunshineToo
sunshineToo 13 years ago


Interesting. They seem to have a special treatment from the jws. Apparently they weren't told to pioneer instead of playing tennise.
Please somebody tell them about the Silent Lambs
 
Euphemism
Euphemism 13 years ago

Please note that this article is almost five years old. I believe that the Williams sisters are currently inactive.
 
Panda
Panda 13 years ago

Ebony magazine had an article in Apr or May 2003 discussing the Williams women. Venus and Serena have 3 (I think) other sisters. Earlier this year the parents divorced and the Dad "King Richard" no longer attends the tennis tournaments. According to Mom the divorce was all friendly and amicable???? No divorce is friendly and amicable... or am I just a cynic. Venus and Serena (when askeed about celebrating Mothers Day) said it's just like any other day, they always honor their Mom (which is probably true). In this article there was no talk about field service so maybe they are inactive --- one can always hope that these intelligent young women will continue to grow and learn.
 
Gordy
Gordy 13 years ago


When they were playing at Wimbledon this year.
They had a recorded interview with Serena Williams on the radio, late at night on I think it was BBC World Service.
She was asked about her religion and what part it played in her life.
She replied that it had been a part of her growing up and gave her some good moral guidelines. (Mind you, have you seen the way she dresses sometimes.)
This what surprised me she then said "But it no longer has an important role to play in her life."
 
rocketman
rocketman 13 years ago


This what surprised me she then said "But it no longer has an important role to play in her life."
Surprises me too....I guess maybe all that stardom and money may have gotten the better of her (from the jw standpoint).
 
berylblue
berylblue 13 years ago

It ain't so bad to be a Witness when you're rich, can break the rules with impunity, and have thousands of persons admiring you.
 
Hamas
Hamas 13 years ago


I see the Watchtower have resorted to Witnessing to animals to gain more converts.
With this in mind, I suppose Venus and Serena could communicate and Witness quite well !
 
garybuss
garybuss 13 years ago

"If you are one of the Jonadabs or one of the 'great crowd' of good-will persons you will like to mingle with the animals"
(The Watchtower, Jan. 15,1952 p.63-4)

 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
Saintbertholdt
Transcription of interview with Rabbi Michael Berenbaum regarding German JW's in the concentration camps
by Saintbertholdt 8 months ago
Esse quam videri
Google.ca search bar 'royal commission'
by Esse quam videri 7 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo 25 days ago
Nicholaus Kopernicus
"THE TRUTH" & "THE WAY"
by Nicholaus Kopernicus 7 months ago
Terry
A POP QUIZ about the origin of "NEW LIGHT"
by Terry a month ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/56713/williams-sisters-wintnessing





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Serena Williams and her "god jehovah"
/  





 

Serena Williams and her "god jehovah"
by worf 8 years ago 44 Replies latest 8 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 3
 »
 5
10
20
worf
worf 8 years ago

After losing the Wimbledon Championship to her sister Venus, Serena Williams was being interviewed on the court yesterday, and here is part of what she said: "I thank my god jehovah for being out here".
Okay, so according to her words, jehovah blessed her by allowing her to be there to participate in a competitive sports championship match. And not just any match. WIMBLEDON! One of the most prestigious competitive sports matches on this planet!
So if jehovah approves of competitive sports, as implied by Serena Williams comment, then why are jw children discouraged from the extracurricular activity in school of joining sports teams? How many times over the years have we read in the pages of the wt or awake! magazine and other publications of the wt society words condemning jw children from joining sports teams in school because of its so-called dangers such as "bad association", "missing meetings and field service", bad influences, blah, blah, blah.
Yet, Serena Williams can play the sport of tennis as her career in life and thank jehovah for it. She can use her position to pose for sexy pictures in magazines. She is also obviously missing meetings and field service. But she can thank jehovah for being at Wimbledon in a competitive sports career.
Again, jw children are discouraged from joining sports teams in school.
Well, this jehovah must be one of the biggest hypocrites in history or Serena Williams is a hypocrite by claiming to be a jw thereby claiming to live by all jw rules and teachings or the wt is a hypocrite by having discouraged jw children from being involved in sports teams in school, but at the same time accepting people like Serena Williams who live by competitive sports.
My answer is that all 3 are hypocrites.
At least Venus Williams did not attribute her victory at Wimbledon to any non-existent god called jehovah. In fact, to her credit, she didn't thank god at all.
(Of course all of the above is not a condemnation of sports. I'm sure you get the point I'm making.)

Worf
 
OnTheWayOut
OnTheWayOut 8 years ago

"I thank my god jehovah ...
Thanking "my" God, Jehovah, was a good thing.
It further isolated HIM and that name. Anyone listening
would swear that Jehovah is not THE God in Heaven but
just the god of some people. They would equate that with
paganism.
 
IronClaw
IronClaw 8 years ago

How many times over the years have we read in the pages of the wt or awake! magazine and other publications of the wt society words condemning jw children from joining sports teams in school because of its so-called dangers such as "bad association", "missing meetings and field service", bad influences,
She probably gives mucho $$$$ to the WTS. I often wondered why Michael Jackson never got nailed for his actions. Its all about the $$$$. Thats my best guess.
The Claw
 
zeroday
zeroday 8 years ago

I often wondered why Michael Jackson never got nailed for his actions.
He did DA himself...but you are right...
 
carla
carla 8 years ago

I'm just glad she identified her god jehovah so we don't get mixed up with god bob, god tom, ..... Ever send a jw a pic of her in one of her 'outfits'? They are not appreciative! and think you sent them a link to pornLong time ago there was one posted here that many of the guys were drooling over so I thought I would send it on to my jw and ask if that is how good jw's dress? maybe at the dc's I hear so much about? Like I said he did not appreciate ME sending it to him, maybe if a guy did his reaction would have been different?
 
chrisjoel
chrisjoel 8 years ago

"I thank my god jehovah for being out here".
imagine what she would have to say
"First of all I want to thank the WTS and the elders in my congregation for not reproving me in any way. I know that playing in competetive sports is really not allowed in our religion but I really want to say thanks for letting me do it"
She gave glory to jehovah. She just might have to back those words up by auxilliary pioneering in April.:smile:
 
mouthy
mouthy 8 years ago

Surely you have to admit she is beautiful,talented & a good body So she is thinking independently ( Out side the box) Good for her. I was stupid I did all the WT said....I made my lovely daughter obey them also. No school sports- no competiveness with the world... She is Dead!!!! Serena seems very much alive. I hope she mets some dear soul who will help her to see she is in a cult & all the money she donates to them,is used by the guys on the top floor of Bethel to enjoy.....
 
New light for you
New light for you 8 years ago

on the other hand... i have to say... she's not a designated speaker for the WTBS... she can say " i thank jeh for being here" but that doesn't mean that they agree with the context of her statement, or with what she says. you're picking it apart like she has some official speaking status and they "worded" it for her, but she's just some publisher.. maybe at best. she just said what she felt like saying.
 
worf
worf 8 years ago

To Mouthy and New Light For You,
What I was pointing out is that in the context of the rules laid down by the wt, that Serena, the wt, and their god are being hypocritical.
Of course she is not a spokesman for wt. And of course she is thinking independently. No problem with that.
But then don't claim to be something you are not. Don't allow breaking of rules for some because they probably give you huge donations. And as far as god is concerned no further point needs to be made.
Worf
 
Gopher
Gopher 8 years ago

... she can say " i thank jeh for being here" but that doesn't mean that they agree with the context of her statement, or with what she says.
The point of the original post is that Serena is getting away with a sexy/wealthy/famous lifestyle that is not approved in any WT literature. For her to act the JW and do all this, while so many other young JW's have been told not to pursue worldly careers (they should be a window washer and a pioneer), makes it apparent there are two sets of standards among the JW's -- one for the influential and another for the rank-and-file JW.
Like Mouthy, I'm glad the WIlliams sisters are pursuing their dreams. It's just a shame that so many of us others growing up JW had our dreams quashed and discouraged by the relentless barrage of WT literature telling us to make serving the organization our whole goal in life.
 
Satanus
Satanus 8 years ago

She will have a large affect on black people within the org. They will use her example to push at the wt guidelines. As well, it wouldn't surprise me if the her influence tends to attract young black people into the org. Whether that would be enough to bring some changes is another question.
S
 
treadnh2o
treadnh2o 8 years ago

I love the fact that they publicly connect themselves with JW's, and represent Everything the borg hates( fornication, greed, tattoo's sports etc.). Was talking with an elder very familiar with their spiritual situation and he was just shaking his head. I was laughing!
 
Homerovah the Almighty
Homerovah the Almighty 8 years ago

There are celebrity JWS and there are regular JWS they are treated quite differently from one and another
and lets not forget the rich
 
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 8 years ago

Her God/WBT$ would`nt let me participate in sports at school..But..Her God/WBT$ lets her play professional sports?............She must be giving her God/WBT$ a nice chunk of cash....................OUTLAW
 
Layla33
Layla33 8 years ago

Can someone post a picture of Serena and Venus running with the American flag at the Olympics. Again, I don't think they are baptized Witnesses.
 
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 8 years ago

LOL@ her pics...Pic #1..Her dress for the Assembly......Pic#2..Ready for Field Service.................Solid proof,the WBT$ treats all JW`s equally!......................Laughing Mutley...OUTLAW
 
treadnh2o
treadnh2o 8 years ago

They are not baptized. Otherwise they would be booted. The local elders do not care about the donations as it 's not doing them any good personally.They also go to very few meetings and an occasional assembly. Venus more so than Serena. When they do show up they are treated like celebrities, everyone is giddy but the "idol" worship is limited.
 
Jim_TX
Jim_TX 8 years ago

"...she said: "I thank my god jehovah for being out here"."
...aaaaand that outta be worth 10 hours on the field service report.
I am glad that they are doing what they want to do. But! I, too am miffed that I was not allowed to participate in sports (or anything else) when I was a teen, in school... BEFORE _I_ got baptized (after too).
*shrug* Oh well. Perhaps they can catch up with Michael Jackson, and all dance together.
Regards,
Jim TX
 
jehovahsheep
jehovahsheep 8 years ago

i enjoyed sports in school.but when i became a jw dad i did not let my 2 step children play in organized sports.they found their bad associations in the congregation .sex drugs and rock and roll neither one has become a jw.and they do not talk to me to this day.thank you fds for your wise direction..
 
Gopher
Gopher 8 years ago

This is the best photo I could find of the Williams sisters waving the American flag at the Olympics in 2000 (Sydney, Australia).

Also -- you can see a video of this. Select the clip with the above photo, and then at the 2:57 mark you'll see them patriotically waving American flags!! http://www.nbcolympics.com/tennis/video/index.html
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
AndersonsInfo
Brownstoner: How the Jehovah’s Witnesses Acquired Some of Brooklyn’s Most Insanely Valuable Properties
by AndersonsInfo a month ago
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo 25 days ago
Divergent
November 22 Study Article: God is a hypocrite & is NOT impartial!
by Divergent 4 months ago
Tenacious
Has anyone noticed how in the October JW Broadcast, Losch encourages good works towards ALL people?
by Tenacious 5 months ago
Watchtower-Free
Jehovah's Witnesses in Denmark targeting migrants
by Watchtower-Free 18 days ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/161644/serena-williams-her-god-jehovah





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Serena Williams and her "god jehovah"
/  





 

Serena Williams and her "god jehovah"
by worf 8 years ago 44 Replies latest 8 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 3
 »
 5
10
20
MinisterAmos
MinisterAmos 8 years ago

Surely you have to admit she is beautiful,talented & a good body<<
Umm yeah, for a DUDE!
 
knock knock
knock knock 8 years ago

I also say they should thank the governing body for allowing them to compete. It's they who run the show after all.
 
yourmomma
yourmomma 8 years ago

maybe rick fearon can call the wts and ask about her and record it for a video
 
MsMcDucket
MsMcDucket 8 years ago

Umm yeah, for a DUDE!
A man with that much ass is going to be in big trouble! ROFLMAO!!!
 
mouthy
mouthy 8 years ago

I wrote & asked Bethel how come the Williams sister were running around with the flag when we were not allowed to do that. I was written back.
"each congregations have their own rules "Liars.....
 
treadnh2o
treadnh2o 8 years ago

Mouthy- It's o.k. if its the American flag. You live in Canadia. LOL
 
Preston
Preston 8 years ago

She's too hot to need God. All of those FLDS women at the Texas compund better start praying more.
- Preston
 
dogisgod
dogisgod 8 years ago

I think they are a great witness for what you can do by ignoring the society. You go girls!!!
 
nameless_one
nameless_one 8 years ago

I think it's great these two young women are so focused and accomplished, and that they're making the most of their talents and thriving and achieving in life. BUT...
The problem I feel when I read about this kind of thing, is that it presents a skewed view of JWs to those who don't know the reality (which is the vast majority of people!). I am an UBM, and I never had a clue what JWs and the WTS were really about until I got "educated" up close and personal. My non-JW friends, family, colleagues, etc also have had no idea, and many regular ("worldly") people think I'm crazy when I tell them what the real deal is. JW celebrities who seem "normal" and healthy and successful and unrestricted don't help these misperceptions.
None of that is the fault of the Williams girls, of course; it's just the fact that every time one of them talks about Jehovah and the JWs on TV or whatever, it gives a subtle witness to "worldly" people purely by virtue of making JWs seem harmless and relatively mainstream, which they most certainly are not.
 
justhuman
justhuman 8 years ago

Well many of us weren't so lucky like Serena to thank Jehovah due to the WT. I quit a music for pioneering.........
By the way she is SO HOT AND SEXY....She doesn't read the WT's magazine regarding the modest Christian dressing, and for sure she doesn't look at all the pictures of how should JW women should dressed...
But as Apostle Paul said, "money(love) will cover multitude of sins"
You give money to the WT and everything is forgiven
 
passive suicide
passive suicide 8 years ago

She's an idiot. oh yeah....and I thank my god Jehovah for being able to comment on jWD......
 
Save My Soul
Save My Soul 8 years ago

Is Serena baptized?
The organization usually, most probably have never said that sports are a DF offense. They will usually, most probably say they take time away from the preaching work..and since we are so close to the end.......a mature christian............yada, yada, yada.............

If they change the position, they will say.....................we never said you could not play sports..........
 
Save My Soul
Save My Soul 8 years ago

Surely you have to admit she is beautiful,talented & a good body<<
Umm yeah, for a DUDE!
Everyone has their taste..some men like the 14 YO boyish look of some tennis players, others perfer a more define sensual look. The diversity of Ann Mauresmo to the player that is used by Canon (can't remember the name at 0200 in the morning) is incredible. I personally would prefer Serena over anyone on the circuit today. Again, personal preference. IMO, she does NOT look like a man. Breast, thighs and no crows feet.
 
mouthy
mouthy 8 years ago

Umm yeah, for a DUDE!
I am NOT a dude, I find her to have a lovely body, sexy, beautiful, I would have given my right arm to look like that at ANY time of my life..
 
insearchoftruth
insearchoftruth 8 years ago

The double standard applied to these talented ladies is quite amazing, but I guess double standards are everywhere. I wonder what would happen if someone showed up for a meeting wearing aneres clothing, the design label of Serena.....
 
Roski
Roski 8 years ago

Mouthy (first post)...ditto.
 
mouthy
mouthy 8 years ago

Welcome Roski!!!! Brilliant minds think alike
 
rocketman
rocketman 8 years ago

I have no problem with what Serena and Venus are doing. After all, the problem is that jw kids have, for decades, been strongly discouraged from pursuing activities which are totally normal - such as those in which the Williams sisters participate freely and evidently without censure.
 
SG Seattle
SG Seattle 8 years ago

"...she said: "I thank my god jehovah for being out here"." ...aaaaand that outta be worth 10 hours on the field service report.
Depends on how many times the soundbite gets played :wink:
 
IT Support
IT Support 8 years ago

I think the Williams girls should be encouraged ...
◦JW kids will hear Serena and nag their parents to death to also be allowed to play. "If Venus and Serena can play tennis after school and at weekends, why can't I?"; GOOD OUTCOME.
◦Their JW parents will realize there's one rule for them and another for celeb JWs; EVEN BETTER OUTCOME
◦All the while the GB is being undermined because they daren't 'do' anything about this situation; BEST OUTCOME.
Go get'em, girls!

 

«
 1
 2
 3
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
after losing the wimbledon championship to her sister venus, serena williams was being interviewed on the court yesterday, and here is part of what she said: "i thank my god jehovah for being out here".. okay, so according to her words, jehovah blessed her by allowing her to be there to participate in a competitive sports championship match.
and not just any match.
wimbledon!



Related Topics
AndersonsInfo
Brownstoner: How the Jehovah’s Witnesses Acquired Some of Brooklyn’s Most Insanely Valuable Properties
by AndersonsInfo a month ago
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo 25 days ago
Divergent
November 22 Study Article: God is a hypocrite & is NOT impartial!
by Divergent 4 months ago
Tenacious
Has anyone noticed how in the October JW Broadcast, Losch encourages good works towards ALL people?
by Tenacious 5 months ago
Watchtower-Free
Jehovah's Witnesses in Denmark targeting migrants
by Watchtower-Free 18 days ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/161644/serena-williams-her-god-jehovah?page=2&size=20







Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Serena Williams and her "god jehovah"
/  





 

Serena Williams and her "god jehovah"
by worf 8 years ago 44 Replies latest 8 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 3
 »
5
10
20
wha happened?
wha happened? 8 years ago

I was having a discussion about the Williams sister with a friend of mine on the board. We still haven't found anything on if they are really baptized or what congregation they attend. My old cong used to get JW celebrities from time to time. If they are really attending surely someone has seen them. Of course anyone can claim their God as Jehovah and never walk into a kingdom hall
 
blondie
blondie 8 years ago

Why not go to the source?
http://serenawilliams.com/home/
 
carla
carla 8 years ago

She can't wait to send a kid to college? I think she must have missed the memo.
 
mrsjones5
mrsjones5 8 years ago

I think she must have missed the memo.
Nah, she doesn't have the right "equipement" to have to worry about the memo
 
wha happened?
wha happened? 8 years ago

well I checked her website and it said nothing about her as a JW. Who knows, maybe she was trying to keep her Mom happy
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
after losing the wimbledon championship to her sister venus, serena williams was being interviewed on the court yesterday, and here is part of what she said: "i thank my god jehovah for being out here".. okay, so according to her words, jehovah blessed her by allowing her to be there to participate in a competitive sports championship match.
and not just any match.
wimbledon!



Related Topics
AndersonsInfo
Brownstoner: How the Jehovah’s Witnesses Acquired Some of Brooklyn’s Most Insanely Valuable Properties
by AndersonsInfo a month ago
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo 25 days ago
Divergent
November 22 Study Article: God is a hypocrite & is NOT impartial!
by Divergent 4 months ago
Tenacious
Has anyone noticed how in the October JW Broadcast, Losch encourages good works towards ALL people?
by Tenacious 5 months ago
Watchtower-Free
Jehovah's Witnesses in Denmark targeting migrants
by Watchtower-Free 18 days ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/161644/serena-williams-her-god-jehovah?page=3&size=20






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Has anyone noticed how in the October JW Broadcast, Losch encourages good works towards ALL people?
/  





 

Has anyone noticed how in the October JW Broadcast, Losch encourages good works towards ALL people?
by Tenacious 5 months ago 31 Replies latest 5 months ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20
Tenacious
Tenacious 5 months ago

I can't help but notice how this past year alone has seen the GB start to turn more towards the teachings of the Christ instead of peddling their falsities.
Study articles have talked in length about the fine works of Christ. Assemblies have been dedicated to speaking about Christ. And this month's broadcast is about doing good to others copying the example Christ left for us.
What's more shocking is that Losch actually says kids should speak, share, and even give food and clothing to non-believers!!
Losch goes on and on about how Christ did fine works that was not spiritual in nature but rather loving towards his neighbors and how it is these works that "let our light shine" and give praise and honor to Jehovah God and demonstrate that we are truly followers of the Christ.
Now this is all good and dandy, I certainly never thought I would live to see these happenings, yet something much more important is missing and they still refuse to say it or teach it.
Faith in Christ.
Why won't they teach this if the Scriptures are replete with this teaching?
Simple. They do not wish for people to start thinking so much of Christ and forget all about Jehovah. They don't realize that members, by putting their faith in Christ, copying the Christ, are praising Jehovah God.
The GB knows that all through the years, teachings have been about faith in Jehovah, and the majority of members view them as Jehovah's spokesperson. Jehovah is them and they are Jehovah. Remember what G. Jackson said, that they are Guardians Of Doctrine. Why upset that apple cart?

The fact that they have suddenly turned their attention to Christ in these very, very difficult days with all of the lawsuits, negative press, legal inquiries, and financial difficulties is not surprising. They can clearly see that Jehovah, instead of blessing them, not that he ever has, is actually condemning them. Now that their backs are against the wall, they are trying, let me stress, trying, to do right by teaching Christ. Sadly they are way too arrogant and power hungry to let go completely of their stranglehold on doctrine and by default their mental enslavement of members.
The power they hold over the 8 million plus members is intoxicating. They can now see how Jehovah feels about them disrespecting His son and his rightful position as King. The GB even has the nerve to have brothers sing about Jehovah being King and not his son as Jehovah rightfully appointed. Kingdom song # 30 is titled "Jehovah Begins His Rule" and song # 46 is titled "Jehovah Is Our King!"
Gee, I wonder why Jehovah is upset with them. I wonder how Jehovah views the GB in light of sending his only beloved Son to be tortured and killed all just to be put on the back burner and ignored.
So what the does Bible teach about giving the rightful honor to His Son?
(Daniel 7:14) ". . . And to him there were given rulership, honor, and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him..."
(Acts 3:16) "…and by our faith in his name…..”
I just see divine justice being meted out here.
What do you guys think?

 +3 / -0
sir82
sir82 5 months ago

Dude this is the GB we're talking about here!
They don't give a flying fig about the "teachings of the Christ".
Jesus & his teachings are utterly irrelevant to them. At best he "set a good example".
The October broadcast was just lip service.
Actually, more likely, it was done to provide future video "evidence" that they are "non-cult-like". You never know when there might be a need for such propaganda in future court cases.

 +2 / -0
Saved_JW
Saved_JW 5 months ago

In my estimation, they are pulling from the Mormon Playbook, trying to blur the lines between the distinctions of the religion. They want to be viewed as a Christian Organization. to do this, they must appeal to the cultural familiarity of promoting Jesus.
This is exactly what the Mormon church did 20 years ago. Much less emphasis on the church, and more emphasis on Jesus. But Jesus was only used as a hook to bring people in. once they are baptized, then they are given the distinctives of the faith.
 +3 / -0
zophar
zophar 5 months ago

Good observation!
I noticed the same thing. It reminded me of the big controversy in the late 70's and early 80's about "Sacred Service" and what it is. For a while there they had it right, Sacred Service was everything you did as a Christian. This included good works toward thy neighbor. No doubt, this was, in a large part due to the influence of Dunlap and Raymond Franz and the research they did on the subject. They even re-named the Theocratic Ministry School to the Theocratic School. (They changed it back a few years later, but people still say Theocratic School instead of Theocratic Ministry School to this day.) And renamed Kingdom Ministry to Kingdom Service.
The big idea was all put to rest once Ray and Dunlap left and they went hard line that Sacred Service was only things related to direct worship. Being a good neighbor was not sacred service. Going in field service was.
In fact, early on, Rutherford came down hard on what was called Character Development, saying the preaching was what should be stressed instead. Now, Losch gives this long rant about basically, Character Development! It was very striking to me.
But that is how New Light works don't you see. You are going one direction, then you switch to a new direction, then you switch back to the old direction, then back again to a new direction..........
 +5 / -0
Doubting Bro
Doubting Bro 5 months ago
When they start letting people report time for that type of thing or they actually sponsor programs to help the community, then there will be a real change. Otherwise this is just lip service.
 +3 / -0
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 5 months ago

One word, "Rebranding." They are forced to "mainstream" to a certain degree because of the passage of time and circumstances. The main circumstances are, in my opinion:
1) Their false prophecies being exposed by the Information Age.
2) Their deplorable handling of sexual abuse being exposed by the Information Age.
3) The possible intervention by Governments concerning their charitable status.
It was Gerrit who first mentioned charity in the traditional "worldly" sense ( not giving Watchtowers to homeless people ) at the first, "historic" Regional Convention. This is more than likely an effort to convince the sheeple that the WTBTS does actual charity.
My feelings are, " You skipped out on your court summons, Gerrit. You failed to behave as a mature Christian when you could have helped children who Jesus loves. Instead, you ignored the "Superior Authorities" whom your supposed Heavenly Father set up to punish evil doers, including sexual predators. You don't deserve my trust."
DD
 +2 / -0
Tenacious
Tenacious 5 months ago

@ zophar - you make some very good points. They will likely revert back once things smooth out.
@ Doubting Bro - when the WTS says we must worship, worship, worship more and more field service, field service, field service, I like to quote from James 1:27 where it says ".....The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world." (NWT)

 +2 / -0
Tenacious
Tenacious 5 months ago

@ DATA-DOG - Yes, definitely agree. The proliferation of the internet has certainly hurt the WTS extensively and will continue to do so. Now, the so-called apostates, have a voice that resonates far and wide. They have been delimited from flyers, letters, picketing, and rallies to websites that reach even the most remote parts of the earth.
The WTS went from belittling the internet to making use of it to try and stop the bleeding.
Sorry, but this bleeding won't be easily stopped until people hear the real truth unlike the peppered one they now get from the WTS.

 
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 5 months ago

I haven't watched the broadcast, and probably never will as I can't stand to look at Gerrit or any other GB member. I just can't bear to look at their lying faces. Anyway, did he really talk about character development??
I was accused of apostasy, in part, for saying that helping others ( even worldly neighbors ) was just as sacred as knocking on doors. My point was that charitable works open the door to preaching. The Eldubs said, "NOPE. Not spiritually mature. VISIBLE SERVICE is what counts."
Is there a possibility that Gerrit is a bit rebellious? One way to look at his refusal to show up in court is that he was saying, "Screw you, WTBTS INC!" Maybe he decided that defending the WTBTS would make him look bad? Geoffrey Jackson should have followed that example.
I don't know, just thinking out loud. It would be great if he was rebelling or working from the inside, but the chance is remote. You don't get to be a GB member by marching to your own beat.
DD
 +1 / -0
LAWHFol
LAWHFol 5 months ago
nice observations tenacious
 
wifibandit
wifibandit 5 months ago



 +1 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 5 months ago

Great Thread!
The double standards are amazing....
Why encourage "good works" to "worldly" people, if they are just going to all get killed soon at the Big A!?
 +2 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 5 months ago
I believe they only brought up Jesus this year because ones on this site were producing graphs showing how little they talk about him. The good deeds crap is to help with thier charity BS thier trying g to sell to the government's.
 +2 / -0
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 5 months ago

I 'm beginning to think these broadcasts are produced so in the furture they can provide proof to Government or the courts that they do encourage charitable works, and provide disaster relief, and protect children, and don't beg for money, and dignify women.
"See, we do all this super wonderful christiany stuff, our broadcasts say so"
 +2 / -0
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 5 months ago

Angus Stewart wasn't fooled. A serious inquiry would "prove" that the WTBTS's charitable works are deplorable by Xian standards.
Look for a JW.Borg soup kitchen.....SOON!
DD
 +1 / -0
steve2
steve2 5 months ago

Impression Management hard at work is a clever sight to behold.
 +2 / -0
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 5 months ago
Steve2 - "impression management" exactly!
 +1 / -0
Tenacious
Tenacious 5 months ago

It would be great if he was rebelling or working from the inside, but the chance is remote. You don't get to be a GB member by marching to your own beat.
This would be incredibly bold but, like you point out, highly improbable.Ray Franz tried it when he wouldn't sign off on many magazine articles and that just got him a swift boot off the body and an apostate label.
I like what Ed Dunlap said to his accusers when he was told he would be disfellowshipped. He straight up told them when they announce him not to say it was for apostasy as he wasn't one and they knew that. Classic. Ed had brass balls.

 +1 / -0
pepperheart
pepperheart 5 months ago
Its because they are concerned about losing their charity status and all the tax breaks that come with it

 +2 / -0
jwleaks
jwleaks 5 months ago

What's more shocking is that Losch actually says kids should speak, share, and even give food and clothing to non-believers!!
Sounds like someone needs a quote for the UK Charity Commission investigation into the Jehovah' Witnesses and the Watchtower Society of Britain.
 +1 / -0

«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
blondie
Blondie's Highlights from 11-15-2015 WT (FAITH)
by blondie 4 months ago
TTWSYF
What's up with the HEBREWS translation?
by TTWSYF 3 months ago
Wonderment
John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2
by Wonderment 3 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo 25 days ago
blondie
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-22-2015 WT Study (God Loves us?)
by blondie 3 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5076833175339008/has-anyone-noticed-how-october-jw-broadcast-losch-encourages-good-works-towards-all-people






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Has anyone noticed how in the October JW Broadcast, Losch encourages good works towards ALL people?
/  





 

Has anyone noticed how in the October JW Broadcast, Losch encourages good works towards ALL people?
by Tenacious 5 months ago 31 Replies latest 5 months ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20
Clambake
Clambake 5 months ago

What a load of shit. It's not like the wts has any mission or outreach centers.
If you want to help the poor you would have to get involved with the false religions of christedom which could get you disfellowshipped.
 +2 / -0
BluesBrother
BluesBrother 5 months ago

I am not going to knock it when he actually says something right, for once. Clambake is right though when he says that if they came up with an organized programme to help non dubs, It would set an example and actually get it done.
I wonder if this a real change of direction or a "one off" statement by one GB member to be swamped by all the other stuff about how "The Ministry" is paramount....
If they make it a study WT article it will show some real intent.
 +1 / -0
Vidiot
Vidiot 5 months ago

Lip service, pure and simple...
...for tax-exempt purposes, just as sparrowdown and Data-Dog said.
Too little, too late, IMO.
x
Know what?
This suggests to me that maybe the IRS has already been sniffing around, and that the WT Legal Dept may have already gotten hints that their "charity" status might come under review.
The WTS is reactive rather than proactive, remember?
 +2 / -0
Room 215
Room 215 5 months ago
Interesting, Gary Breaux was a waiter in the Bethel dining room when I was there.
 
Iown Mylife
Iown Mylife 5 months ago

Remember that brother made speechless on the stand when Angus said "You disfellowshipped a pedophile, but by not reporting him to the authorities you left non-jw children vulnerable, didn't you? You only care about the jw children, isn't that right?"
Possibly a new concern for worldly people who need more help than just a tract, would result from that.
Marina
 +4 / -0
poopie
poopie 5 months ago
As long as your not df
 +1 / -0
Vidiot
Vidiot 5 months ago

@ Iown Mylife...
That was particularly damning, wasn't it?
x
It'd probably never even occurred to the stupid f**kers...
 +3 / -0
Alive!
Alive! 5 months ago

I see scripted damage control.
Caring for others who are not JWs - as in providing practical help and services - has NOT been the backbone of this relatively modern day 'religion' - a favourite scripture quoted amongst the 'friends' was 'you will always have the poor' as a reason why WE don't donate to charitable causes or spend time caring for those in need. Right?
Suddenly it's shifting - the WT is morphing and responding to public feedback.
Perhaps I should be encouraging and positive and say well, that's good. But you know, the manner and mode of the entire brand leaves an unpleasant taste in my mouth.
I've seen behind the curtain - I don't like your magic, the weaving and conjuring of tricks. I've heard and seen senior leaders speak and answer to questions away from their protective smokscreen where THEY control the script. The Australian RC was ....simply and utterly revealing about the culture and nature of Watchtower speak.
It made me feel ashamed to have been involved with such dishonest men as my 'leaders'.
 +2 / -0
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 5 months ago

Many JWs I have known, refuse to even shop from church-owned charity stores.
They have snidely critisized other churches for focusing on charity rather than "spiritual food!"
 +2 / -0
Vidiot
Vidiot 5 months ago


sparrowdown - "They have snidely critisized other churches for focusing on charity rather than 'spiritual food'!"
Never has this image been more appropriate...


 
Muddy Waters
Muddy Waters 5 months ago

Alive! & Sparrowdown, so true! The WTS has always looked down on material giving and traditional understanding of works of charity, as it supposedly produces "rice Christians". They promoted their literature as being the highest form of helping people, using the principal about "feeding a man a fish for a day vs. teaching him how to fish."
Above all, we were to use our time and energies in the all-important preaching work in this time of the end..... Helping orphans and widows and feeding people if they are hungry, etc., was all to be done in a SPIRITUAL (thus, invisible?) sense.....
 
Vidiot
Vidiot 5 months ago


Muddy Waters - "...a spiritual (thus, invisible?) sense..."
Now, that explains a lot...
 +1 / -0

«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
i can't help but notice how this past year alone has seen the gb start to turn more towards the teachings of the christ instead of peddling their falsities.. study articles have talked in length about the fine works of christ.
assemblies have been dedicated to speaking about christ.
and this month's broadcast is about doing good to others copying the example christ left for us.. what's more shocking is that losch actually says kids should speak, share, and even give food and clothing to non-believers!!



Related Topics
blondie
Blondie's Highlights from 11-15-2015 WT (FAITH)
by blondie 4 months ago
TTWSYF
What's up with the HEBREWS translation?
by TTWSYF 3 months ago
Wonderment
John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2
by Wonderment 3 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo 25 days ago
blondie
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-22-2015 WT Study (God Loves us?)
by blondie 3 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5076833175339008/has-anyone-noticed-how-october-jw-broadcast-losch-encourages-good-works-towards-all-people?page=2&size=20







Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home





Search 'venus williams'
First
 Next
  ChuckFire
20
Venus Williams ESPN Nude Religious Controversy.
by ChuckFire in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Scandals & Coverups
 2 years ago
. Venus Williams ESPN Nude Religious Controversy. . By Mike Tuttle. June 24, 2014.

Apognophos
Focus
Pistoff
2 years ago
DevonMcBride
3
Venus Williams New Career.
by DevonMcBride in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 13 years ago
14, 2003 Venus Williams already courting a new career . BY CHARLYNE VARKONYI SCHAUB . South Florida Sun-Sentinel .

Shutterbug
Stephanus
ozziepost
13 years ago
Voyager
1
Is The Show Almost Over?--(Williams Sisters Article)
by Voyager in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 11 years ago
Sisters Serena, left, and Venus Williams shake hands after a game 1991 in Compton, CA.. Photo: Getty Images.

nilfun
11 years ago
Prisca
3
Man Arrested Over Williams Killing.
by Prisca in Social
 » News & World Events
 12 years ago
LA official Alba Yates speaks about the shooting death of Venus and Serena Williams' older sister. Listen to Audio.

Joker10
shamus
jelly
12 years ago
Uncanny
21
The Real Whore of Babylon.
by Uncanny in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 15 years ago
... Jehovah's Witness 'sister' and top rating professional tennis player, Venus Williams, is back in the news again.

Hojon
logical
Utopian Reformist
15 years ago
Mythbuster
24
Venus Williams French Open Outfit Dominates Headlines - Pictures Included.
by Mythbuster in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 6 years ago
Venus Williams easily won her opening match at the French Open on Sunday, beating Patty Schnyder with consecutive ...

sacolton
Diva
blondie
6 years ago
messenger
2
Sister Venus Williams.
by messenger in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 14 years ago
Venus Williams lounges, all arms and legs, in the corner of the bar in a Hamburg hotel. She's telling me about her ...

dustrabbit
Klaus Vollmer
14 years ago
TresHappy
1
Venus and Serena Williams - Authors.
by TresHappy in Social
 » News & World Events
 11 years ago
Embracing their status as role models, Serena and Venus Williams have written a book with advice for preteens on ...

whyamihere
11 years ago
Joker10
8
Williams Sisters wintnessing.
by Joker10 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 13 years ago
Sports Illustrated, Sept 21, 1998 v89 n12 p116(1) A ringling endorsement: Venus and Serena Williams may be a lot of ...

berylblue
Hamas
garybuss
13 years ago
worf
44
Serena Williams and her "god jehovah"
by worf in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 8 years ago
After losing the Wimbledon Championship to her sister Venus, Serena Williams was being interviewed on the court ...

carla
mrsjones5
wha happened?
8 years ago
First
 Next
 
 
 


Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/search/?q=venus+williams






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ JW History in Pictures #1
/  





 

JW History in Pictures #1
by Wild_Thing a day ago 11 Replies latest 4 hours ago   jw friends
5
10
20
Wild_Thing
Wild_Thing a day ago

The Death of a Cult Leader
The gaudy and ostentatiousness of the proceedings following the death of Charles Taze Russell is really interesting to look at. I can't decide if it is further proof of how much of a cult they were, even back then, or how much they are just like other religions, like the Catholics. Russell was like their Pope.
Charles Taze Russell fell ill from heart disease while traveling on a speaking circuit. After a doctor confirming he was indeed near death, Russell requested that he be wrapped in a toga (made from a bed sheet) and died at the age of 64 on Tuesday, October 31, 1916 while aboard a train traveling through Pampa, TX. His body traveled by train to Kansas City, where his body was embalmed. It was then taken by train, routed through Chicago to New York on November 3rd.
From the Watchtower, December 1, 1916:
When the body reached Chicago, a large number of friends had assembled at the station, and as it was necessary to transfer the casket from one depot to another, a long procession of automobiles bearing the sorrowing friends formed and followed through the city. The casket was opened during the delay here, and many took the last look at him whom they knew so well and loved so much. From Chicago the body was accompanied by a delegation, delegations from other cities joining en route to New York.
The remains reached the Bethel Home on Saturday, where they were viewed by the Family and by members of the Congregation. On Sunday morning they were removed to The Temple and lay in state until 10 o'clock in the evening. Thousands saw them here for the last time.
All day Saturday and Sunday representatives of congregations in many of the cities east of the Mississippi and in Canada arrived on almost every incoming train. The Temple was inadequate to accommodate them all. The lecture room below was opened for the overflow. Every inch of available space was occupied from the basement to and including the second balcony.



Elsewhere in THE WATCH TOWER will be found a full-page view of the floral display on the rostrum. It was the finest we have ever seen on such an occasion. The scene surpassed description. The rostrum of The Temple was so completely occupied by plants, ferns, flowers and a most wonderful collection of appropriate floral designs as to leave barely room enough for the speakers and the remains of our beloved Pastor. Moreover, the entire facing of every balcony and box was artistically decorated with a great variety of ferns and flowers.
At the foot of the casket was placed a broken pillar of flowers, fittingly representing that dear body which, like the Lord's body, had been broken in the service of the brethren; while at the head was a magnificent floral cross and crown, the cross symbolizing his share in the death of Christ, and the crown symbolizing the Crown of Glory, which we believe he now wears with our dear Lord in Heaven.


Picture that appeared in Watchtower, December 1, 1916. Russell's funeral at Russell Temple in Manhattan.


THREE funeral services for Charles Taze Russell were held at The Temple in New York City on Sunday, November 5, 1916, where 17 "brothers" spoke. His body was transported to Pennsylvania and ANOTHER funeral service was held at Carnegie Hall in Pittsburgh on Monday, November 6th.

The large auditorium of the Carnegie Library in Allegheny was packed at two o'clock the following afternoon, when the fourth part of the funeral services began under the direction of Dr. W.E. Spill, representing the Pittsburgh congregation. Love and deep interest were written upon every face in this vast audience also. Every available space on the platform was used to display the rich floral offerings of every description sent by Bible Students and friends from various sections of the country.
Russell's funeral inside Allegheny's Carnegie Hall:


 +6 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 a day ago

Oh but witnesses today will distance themselves and the current organisation from any of that!
They have rewritten history to say that Russell was just a "sincere bible student", no more, no less.....
 +2 / -0
WingCommander
WingCommander a day ago

What a far cry from the little bit of NOTHING that regular rank and file JW's get at their "Memorial Talk".
5 minutes about the abused.......errrr......deceased, then 45 minutes of a WT recruitment informercial from a WT HQ approved "outline."
Absolutely disgusting! As for Russell or any of the other WT leaders "funerals", can you say, "Create Worship? Idolatry?" I knew you could.

 +3 / -0
Wild_Thing
Wild_Thing a day ago


Continued from the Watchtower, December 1, 1916:
The funeral cortege consisted of 101 automobiles and a train of several trolley cars. The beautiful Rosemont Cemetery was reached at dusk, where a company of five hundred friends were gathered on the hillside to witness the last sad rites in connection with the placing of our loved one in the grave. An avenue lined with flowers was formed, through which came the mourners with bared heads, bearing solemnly the casket containing the remains of our Pastor. The walls of the grave were lined with ferns and white chrysanthemums. At the foot of the grave was a floral design inlaid with colors of gold, which silently expressed the belief that the victorious Christian soldier, whose body lay before us, had gone home, and was now a partaker of the Divine nature.

While the bier rested upon the supports over the open grave, prayer was offered, and the casket was lowered to its last resting place, during which the choir impressively sang the beautiful words of Hymn No. 98.
Taken at Rosemont Cemetery:



 +3 / -0
Wild_Thing
Wild_Thing a day ago




 +4 / -0
Wild_Thing
Wild_Thing a day ago




 +0 / -1
Finkelstein
Finkelstein a day ago

Should have written on the headstone " Cracked Pot Snake Oil Messenger " 

 +5 / -0
smiddy
smiddy a day ago

Thanks for posting that Wild_Thing , that is history the W.T. probably wants erased .
I remember a W.T.article in the 60`s or 70`s lambasting the Roman Catholic Church on it`s foundation cornerstone , how the Catholic Church was established , showing it`s foundation was seriously flawed .
Do not these pictures also show how flawed the Cornerstone of the International Bible Students Association was at their inception ?
I think the main point of there article was , if the chief cornerstone of a building was a defect then the whole building would eventually collapse ,which they hoped was happening to the R.C.Church.
So where does that leave the I.B.S.A. , now known as Jehovah`s Witnesses .
In much the same place .
smiddy
 +1 / -0
ILoveTTATT2
ILoveTTATT2 a day ago

Hi Wild thing,
Thank you so much for posting! I had only seen the first and the third picture, where did you get the second and the fourth? Are they in some other WT publication?
 +1 / -0
Wild_Thing
Wild_Thing 17 hours ago

This is where I found a lot of my information. There is so much information scattered in historical documents on the internet, but I suspect we have only scratched the surface. I will have to look and find exactly where I found the second and fourth picture. I will try to do that this evening.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=nXQLAAAAIBAJ&sjid=81MDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3420%2C3379998
http://www.ctrussell.us/ctrussell/ctrussell.nsf
http://www.youblisher.com/p/98327-Watchtower-year-1916/
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhDQDeDjAg4sM_R_yT2dP1HSkxGPjlgJrVnacU7sSVWSrnx4PVRAyYJkHKJN6xaBMKVvmBg7VoPakLyxW2KkpBlY_L2nLPMAyYThUJdG7tIer3euiyXlqxLM-JNgA-bAermmai4hKG5p1Q/s1600/CTR-my+pic.jpg
 +2 / -0
jaydee
jaydee 14 hours ago
good find...Image result for detective emoji
 
Wild_Thing
Wild_Thing 4 hours ago

Okay ... the second picture can be found here: http://pastorrussell.blogspot.com/2010/03/pastor-russell-at-carnegie-hall.html
I verified that this was indeed Carnegie Hall in Pittsburgh by comparing it to other historic pictures of the inside of the building.
The fourth picture can be found here: http://pastorrussell.blogspot.com/2008_09_01_archive.html I have searched high and low on the internet for confirmation that this is indeed a picture Russell's grave, but I couldn't find. I do believe that it is, though.
Incidentally, it appears that the blog where I found both of these pictures is written by a Charles Taze Russell apologist, but it does have some good historical information there.
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
TerryWalstrom
A MODERN FICTION: the lie which became a GOVERNING BODY
by TerryWalstrom 7 months ago
ILoveTTATT2
The Miracle Wheat Episode: Summary
by ILoveTTATT2 18 days ago
KiddingMe
Police: Teen killed in N.Y. church assault wanted out
by KiddingMe 5 months ago
ILoveTTATT2
Brooklyn Eagle November 12, 1911: Shows that this cult has been breaking up families at least for 105 years
by ILoveTTATT2 2 days ago
slimboyfat
Dissenters in Watchtower History: Differing Departures
by slimboyfat 4 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5083244525518848/jw-history-pictures-1





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ more JW splinter groups to poke sticks at...yes Burney, at you
/  





 

more JW splinter groups to poke sticks at...yes Burney, at you
by Aussie Oz 4 years ago 26 Replies latest 4 years ago   watchtower bible
«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20
Aussie Oz
Aussie Oz 4 years ago

From the grat Wikipedia (long may it live)
In 1993, mathematician Gordon Ritchie requested baptism by Jehovah's Witnesses and almost immediately began advocating disagreements with their teachings. He claims he was expelled for apostasy in March 1996. [7] [8] Ritchie contends that Jehovah's Witnesses constituted true religion until 2004, but that his own group of "Lord's Witnesses" is now the sole form of true worship. [9] The group claims several hundred adherents, and argues that their mathematical analysis of the Bible contains divine revelations that Jehovah's Witnesses have ignored.
In 2007, Jehovah's Witness apologist and author Greg G. Stafford, author of "Defending Jehovah's Witnesses" (Elihu Books), formally disassociated from the religion, while insisting on describing himself and his followers as "Jehovah's Witnesses". [10] Stafford has published information about Jehovah's Witnesses, defending many of their unique and central beliefs, such as nontrinitarianism. [11] In 2007 Stafford introduced the term "Christian Witnesses of Jah" to describe individuals who believe many of the same things as Jehovah's Witnesses, [12] [13] but who may not embrace the organization or all of its theological teachings. [14]
And now we can add YORWW and Donald Burney to the list.
So you three guys, how about showing us where each other are wrong before trying to recruit us into your fold eh?
 
still thinking
still thinking 4 years ago

It just never ends does it? Always someone after the religious $$$$$
 
pbrow
pbrow 4 years ago

I always amazes me how someone can actually see the things that a religion is doing wrong, leave and then go and start another church. If someone is a christian why in gods name (no pun intended) would they start a new church and try to get people to follow them?
still thinking, your probably right. more $$$$
pbrow
 
steve2
steve2 4 years ago

I'd say you'd have to be more than a little egotistical and unhinged to start up a religion - you'd also need an unbelievably thick skin, given how much negative publicity you'd get...that seems to describe Joseph Smith (Mormons), Mary Eddy Baker (Christian Scientists), Ellen White (7th-Day Adventists), Charles Russell (Bible Students) Judge Rutherford (Jehovah's Witnesses), Ron Hubbard (Scientologists) and the Reverend Moon (Moonies), among many others.
Imagine them all in the same room at the same time.
What an egostistical, unhinged, think-skinned din there'd be.
 
ProdigalSon
ProdigalSon 4 years ago

As long as people give credibility to this Bible, in its dramatically devolved form, there will be Donald Burneys to build new religions upon it.
When we stop looking to 'sacred texts' and 'holy books' and instead turn our attention within, we will see the truth in those very same texts.
This is what Paul meant when he said to 'rightly divide' the word of truth.
This doesn't mean cherry picking verses based on beliefs. It entails completely abandoning preconceived ideas and starting from scratch.
I've read a lot of Burney's work and he is truly a prolific Master at this cherry-picking. It appears he learned this from the Watchtower and dramatically honed, nearly perfected this craft.
Most people here are well aware of huge portions of the Bible being ripped off from older traditions and twisted to fit the paradigm of a tribal desert god. That it became the basis of Christianity was for no other reason than the Satanist bloodlines backing it had more money and better weapons than their competition.
The key is first learning the kabbalistic numerological, astrological, and metaphorical language it's written in, and then you'll find that it falls very much in line with the multitude of ancient sacred texts from a wide variety of civilizations, including Egypt and Sumeria.
The Temple is within you, and YOU are the Chieftain. Don Burney makes his living off the same false premise as all the other Abrahamic religions. Nothing new here at all. Just another gigantic ego thinking it is bigger than the Universe.
 
Aussie Oz
Aussie Oz 4 years ago

C'mon fella's... at least one of you gotta be reading this!
So you three guys, how about showing us where each other are wrong before trying to recruit us into your fold eh?
Oz
 
pbrow
pbrow 4 years ago

prodigalson, i completely agree. The idea that "the truth" is contained in a book will always allow the few charismatic leaders to fleece the many. I feel that the bible has some good principals (havent really read any other "sacred texts") but I am very reluctant to teach my children out of the bible for fear that coupled with my jw ex's view that the bible is inspired by god, they will come to the conclusion that the bible is the be all end all and if only someone comes along with the "proper" interpretation of it they just have to follow that person or group.
Keep your own council, the truth is inward. I am drawn to the stoics view of self control and clear thinking and especially Seneca's view on anger. Hopefully I can pass that on to my children.
pbrow
 
slimboyfat
slimboyfat 4 years ago

Greg Stafford calls his followers "Jah's Witnesses" but does he actually have any followers?
 
still thinking
still thinking 4 years ago

steve2

I'd say you'd have to be more than a little egotistical and unhinged to start up a religion
I agree
 
AnnOMaly
AnnOMaly 4 years ago

Don't forget Robert King.
 
Phizzy
Phizzy 4 years ago

Do we really want these guys on here arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin ?
Oh, go on then, it may be good for a laugh. It is surprising that they are convinced they have it right, but, despite knowing full well a lot of people here see through the WT theology, and many openly say they are searching for "the truth",they do not come here to promote their brand.
Could it be that they do not wish to cast their pearls before swine, or "mentally diseased apostates" ?
 
strymeckirules
strymeckirules 4 years ago

YORWWay to crazy for me.
 
pbrow
pbrow 4 years ago

persecution! persecution! persecution!
"as jesus promised the wicked would do".... "have gone back to a life of debauchery" blah blah blah blah blah blah. Vexed like "righteous lot"?? Was lot righteous becase he had sex with his own daughters or because he offered them up to rape by men of their village? Your "truth" is a lie bro. The"truth" is not in a book that was literally written by men. Wake the eff up
What gives you the right to judge the WTBTS as "clearly wicked"? You and the 20,000 other denominations extolling the virtues of how righteous you are and happy you are and how evil and wicked everyone else are is surely the model that JC wanted to project.
tool
pbrow
 
pbrow
pbrow 4 years ago

yoorway.... Just to be fair I actually read your main page. What part of JC's sacrifice do you not understand? We no longer need the mosaic law. You know, "The law condems to death but the spirit makes alive" and all that? I wish you and the 20,000 other demonimations the best as being "the one and only true religion" Wait, except the JW's. They are an apostate religion. so I guess it would be 19,999 other denominations saying the exact same thing as you.
pbrow
 
bigmac
bigmac 4 years ago

aaaah--bollox
 
cofty
cofty 4 years ago


your seething anger against our message, vented toward the YORWW Congregation, does nothing but further fulfill prophecy
Ah the constant refrain of the religious nutter. "Laugh at us and it only proves we are right"
No we are laughing because your infantile approach to scripture is risible. Your website is also very ugly -why?
 
pbrow
pbrow 4 years ago

Hey yoorww, as you are leaving my house are you saying "I am going to have that house after armageddon! Its nice."
Bro, cmon... I am giving you sh#t, same as if I was sitting down with you over a beer, which I would have no problem doing. I am not attacking you. I dont even know you! I am attacking your message. If you beleive the bible is inspired even though it is simply a umpteenth copy of an original that was written by the "apostate" church in the first place, then carry on.
The mosaic law is coming back!!?? Is it going to be....very soon?... Is it...... right around the corner? Is it this generation that will see it or the next? Will it be on the ipad or a "tablet" get it? get it?
All you lurkers out there...... pbrow is attacking the message of yoorww!! Proof positive they have the "one true religion!" All my sarcasm is in vain as all 14 of your followers are going to rejoice in the ridicule that they receive from pbrow.
pbrow
ps... my house isnt that nice.
pss..... still seething with anger agains the one true church
 
ProdigalSon
ProdigalSon 4 years ago

some the vile, vicious things spoken here, against God
You just don't get it, and it seems you will never get it. Nobody here blasphemes or says vile things about 'God'. We have clearly and convincingly identified the tribal desert god of the Bible as a vile, petty, jealous, warmongering, insecure, vicious, cruel, heartless, selfish, tyrannical, bi-polar, despotic psychopath. Many of the greatest and compassionate thinkers of all time have reached the same conclusion: Jehovah is a convicted thug. That is plain for any semi-literate, semi-conscious rational individual to see. The truth is, it is the BIBLE that blasphemes God. And all of you hard-core 'believers' worship the book anyway. Why? Because rather than thinking critically and going through all the pains necessary to make sense of this world, you take the easy way out and let other people tell you what to think. This in turn holds back humanity from evolving into a higher form capable of cohabitating with his fellow man in peace.
In summary, if you go around claiming to be the only ones who know the 'truth', and that God has chosen to favor one particular group over another to 'carry out his will' (in this case, the Jamaicans), you have proven that you worship a false god. You should not be shocked when everyone who is excluded from this 'favor' reacts negatively, because you are no different from the Jews, the Watchtower, the Christians and the Muslims. 'We are right and and the rest of you are condemned.' I would think that after all these thousands of years of violence, hatred and bloodshed that something would kick off in your brain that says 'this aint working', but such is the nature of the fundy-beast-believer.
So please, keep your judgments about JWN members to yourself until you get a clue, because you still have none.
.
 
steve2
steve2 4 years ago

JehovahDestroysWTS, your long posts, full of capitalized, bolded and underlined phrases are very off putting. You come across like an impatient,angry person who is intent on promoting only that which fits your point of view. You make sweeping assumptions about people who post on this forum. You'd get a more receptive response if you weren't so full on and better able to acknowledge other people also had a point of view.
 
still thinking
still thinking 4 years ago

Well said Prodigal Son
 

«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo 25 days ago
AndersonsInfo
Brownstoner: How the Jehovah’s Witnesses Acquired Some of Brooklyn’s Most Insanely Valuable Properties
by AndersonsInfo a month ago
Watchtower-Free
Jehovah's Witnesses in Denmark targeting migrants
by Watchtower-Free 18 days ago
JW_Rogue
Your Answers vs. WT Propaganda
by JW_Rogue a month ago
oppostate
Jehovah's Witnesses 'ordered destruction' of notes which could have been used during child sexual abuse inquiry
by oppostate a month ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/220973/more-jw-splinter-groups-poke-sticks-yes-burney-you





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ more JW splinter groups to poke sticks at...yes Burney, at you
/  





 

more JW splinter groups to poke sticks at...yes Burney, at you
by Aussie Oz 4 years ago 26 Replies latest 4 years ago   watchtower bible
«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20
cofty
cofty 4 years ago

JDWTS - Seriously why is your website so hideously ugly?
 
steve2
steve2 4 years ago

JDWTS - Seriously why is your website so hideously ugly?
Not only is it hideously ugly, but it's like a maddening maze that keeps leading to dead-ends composed of CAPITALIZED, ITALICIZED, UNDERLINED & DIFFERENT COLOURS - It reads like some hyperactive messenger who gives little thought to ho he is coming across.
 
cofty
cofty 4 years ago

WhY IS iT THAt the MoRe eXtReMe The RELIGIous FerVOUR the MORE INSAnE AND RANDOM the PreSENtatION??????????????????????????
 
still thinking
still thinking 4 years ago

LOL cofty
 
Isidore
Isidore 4 years ago

Wow, ProdigalSon. Your comments show that you can take the man out of the WTBS, but you can't take the WTBS out of the man. The arrogance in your assertions is amazing.
 
steve2
steve2 4 years ago

Wow, ProdigalSon. Your comments show that you can take the man out of the WTBS, but you can't take the WTBS out of the man. The arrogance in your assertions is amazing.
I'm sure ProdigalSon can answer for himself - unless he's moved on to newer threads - but I found his description and conclsuions about the "god"of the Bible to be very perceptive and compelling.
The Old Testament - or if you want to be pedantic, the Hebrew Scriptures - portrays the god of scripture as a vengeful, jealous, petty being who revels in ordering "his people" to commit genocide against selected peoples, including their babies and old people. It is a ghastly mosogynistic and slave-loving book, relieved by the occasional cry of "Holy, Holy, Holy" of unimaginative angels, dizzy from millenia of encircling the true god's"throne.
One has to perform contortions prized by advanced gymnasts to attempt to reconcile the Old Testament account with a supposedly morally righteous and superior god. But then, like tyrants throughout history, why should god have to justify his methods and commands to humans preoccupied with the sanctity of life? Might may not be moral but it is almost always "right". We live in a world in which the bigger monster almost wins over lesser monsters.
 
Knowsnothing
Knowsnothing 4 years ago

KEY POINT: All Christian Religions, all of them, including the Jehovah's Witnesses failed ... failed Jehovah God and Jesus Christ, as True Bible Scholars and Teachers of God's Word.
That's like you accusing someone of failing Santa and then saying, "But we don't!"
 

«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
from the grat wikipedia (long may it live).
in 1993, mathematician gordon ritchie requested baptism by jehovah's witnesses and almost immediately began advocating disagreements with their teachings.
he claims he was expelled for apostasy in march 1996.



Related Topics
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo 25 days ago
AndersonsInfo
Brownstoner: How the Jehovah’s Witnesses Acquired Some of Brooklyn’s Most Insanely Valuable Properties
by AndersonsInfo a month ago
Watchtower-Free
Jehovah's Witnesses in Denmark targeting migrants
by Watchtower-Free 18 days ago
JW_Rogue
Your Answers vs. WT Propaganda
by JW_Rogue a month ago
oppostate
Jehovah's Witnesses 'ordered destruction' of notes which could have been used during child sexual abuse inquiry
by oppostate a month ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/220973/more-jw-splinter-groups-poke-sticks-yes-burney-you?page=2&size=20





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ A Short History of the Watchtower Organization
/  





 

A Short History of the Watchtower Organization
by plmkrzy 14 years ago 9 Replies latest 14 years ago   watchtower beliefs
5
10
20
plmkrzy
plmkrzy 14 years ago


I wasnt going to bother surfing around in this link, after I clicked on it, because I figured it was just another one of those sites full of rhetoric and crap. But I thought I would just glance. I was surprised to read this. It is actually pretty interesting. I dont know how completely accurate everything in this article is but it seems to be one of the better-written articles I have read.
BTW, I got the link from Bhagavads thread Why Are Most JW's Former R. Catholics?But I didnt read about the Catholics I was distracted. Sorry bhag  don't be mad...ok? I just didn't think you would appreciate me filling up your thread with stuff off the original subject.
If anyone reads all this, I know it is a lot, I'd like to hear from anyone who can either substantiate or refute anything in this article.

plum

A Short History of the Watchtower Organization
Jehovah's Witnesses trace their origins to the nineteenth century Adventist movement in America. That movement began with William Miller, a Baptist lay preacher who, in the year 1816, began proclaiming that Christ would return in 1843. His predictions of the Second Coming or Second Advent captured the imagination of thousands in Baptist and other mainline churches. Perhaps as many as 50,000 followers put their trust in Miller's chronological calculations and prepared to welcome the Lord, while, as the appointed time approached, others watched nervously from a distance. Recalculations moved the promised second advent from March, 1843 to March, 1844, and then to October of that year. Alas, that date too passed uneventfully.
After the "Disappointment of 1844" Miller's following fell apart, with most of those who had looked to him returning to their respective churches before his death in 1849. But other disappointed followers kept the movement alive, although in fragmented form. Their activities eventually led to the formation of several sects under the broad heading of "Adventism" including the Advent Christian Church, the Life and Advent Union, the Seventh-Day Adventists, and various Second Adventist groups.
An interesting side-note: The Branch Davidians who died at Waco, Texas, under the leadership of David Koresh also trace their roots to the same Millerite source through a different line of descent. In 1935 the Seventh Day Adventist Church expelled a Bulgarian immigrant named Victor Houteff, who had begun teaching his own views on certain passages of the Revelation or Apocalypse, the last book of the Bible. Houteff set up shop on the property at Waco. After first referring to his tiny new sect as The Shepherd's Rod, Houteff and his people in 1942 incorporated and renamed themselves Davidian Seventh Day Adventists. Houteff died in 1955, and in 1961 his wife Florence officially disbanded the sect, but a few followers under the leadership of west Texas businessman Benjamin Roden took over the real estate. Roden died in 1978, leaving behind his wife Lois and his son George to lead the group. Then, in 1987, David Koresh took over the leadership position, and the tragedy that followed is public knowledge.
Jehovah's Witnesses, likewise, trace their roots back to the Adventists. But they do not often admit this to outsiders; nor do many Witnesses know the details themselves. JWs are accustomed to defending themselves against the charge that they are a new religious cult. They will often respond that theirs is the most ancient religious group, older than Catholic and Protestant churches. In fact, their book Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose asserts that "Jehovah's witnesses have a history almost 6,000 years long, beginning while the first man, Adam, was still alive," that Adam's son Abel was "the first of an unbroken line of Witnesses," and that "Jesus' disciples were all Jehovah's witnesses [sic] too." (pp. 8-9)
An outsider listening to such claims quickly realizes, of course, that the sect has simply appropriated unto itself all the characters named in the Bible as faithful witnesses of God. By such extrapolation the denomination is able to stretch its history back to the beginnings of the human family-at least in the eyes of adherents who are willing to accept such arguments. But outside observers generally dismiss this sort of rhetoric and instead reckon the Witnesses as dating back only to Charles Taze Russell, who was born on February 16, 1852, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
Originally raised a Presbyterian, Russell was 16 years old and a member of the Congregational church in the year 1868, when he found himself losing faith. He had begun to doubt not only church creeds and doctrines, but also God and the Bible itself. At this critical juncture a chance encounter restored his faith and placed him under the influence of Second Adventist preacher Jonas Wendell.
For some years after that Russell continued to study Scripture with and under the influence of various Adventist laymen and clergy, notably Advent Christian Church minister George Stetson and the Bible Examiner's publisher George Storrs. He met locally on a regular basis with a small circle of friends to discuss the Bible, and this informal study group came to regard him as their leader or pastor.
In January, 1876, when he was 23 years old, Russell received a copy of The Herald of the Morning, an Adventist magazine published by Nelson H. Barbour of Rochester, New York. One of the distinguishing features of Barbour's group at that time was their belief that Christ returned invisibly in 1874, and this concept presented in The Herald captured Russell's attention. It meant that this Adventist splinter group had not remained defeated, as others had, when Christ failed to appear in 1874 as Adventist leaders had predicted; somehow this small group had managed to hold onto the date by affirming that the Lord had indeed returned at the appointed time, only invisibly.
Was this mere wishful thinking, coupled with a stubborn refusal to admit the error of failed chronological calculations? Perhaps, but Barbour had some arguments to offer in support of his assertions. In particular, he came up with a basis for reinterpreting the Second Coming as an invisible event: In Benjamin Wilson's Emphatic Diaglott translation of the New Testament the word rendered coming in the King James Version at Matthew 24:27, 37, 39 is translated presence instead. This served as the basis for Barbour's group to advocate, in addition to their time calculations, an invisible presence of Christ.
Although the idea appealed to young Charles Taze Russell, the reading public apparently refused to 'buy' the story of an invisible Second Coming, with the result that N. H. Barbour's publication The Herald of the Morning was failing financially. In the summer of 1876 wealthy Russell paid Barbour's way to Philadelphia and met with him to discuss both beliefs and finances. The upshot was that Russell became the magazine's financial backer and was added to the masthead as an Assistant Editor. He contributed articles for publication as well as monetary gifts, and Russell's small study group similarly became affiliated with Barbour's.
Russell and Barbour believed and taught that Christ's invisible return in 1874 would be followed soon afterward, in the spring of 1878 to be exact, by the Rapture-the bodily snatching away of believers to heaven. When this expected Rapture failed to occur on time in 1878, The Herald's editor, Mr. Barbour, came up with "new light" on this and other doctrines. Russell, however, rejected some of the new ideas and persuaded other members to oppose them. Finally, Russell quit the staff of the Adventist magazine and started his own. He called it Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence and published its first issue with the date July, 1879. In the beginning it had the same mailing list as The Herald of the Morning and considerable space was devoted to refuting the latter on points of disagreement, Russell having taken with him a copy of that magazine's mailing list when he resigned as assistant editor.
At this point Charles Russell no longer wanted to consider himself an Adventist, nor a Millerite. But, he continued to view Miller and Barbour as instruments chosen by God to lead His people in the past. The formation of a distinct denomination around Russell was a gradual development. His immediate break was, not with Adventism, but with the person and policies of N. H. Barbour.
Nor were barriers immediately erected with respect to Protestantism in general. New readers obtaining subscriptions to Zion's Watch Tower were often church members who saw the magazine as a para-church ministry, not as an anti-church alternative. Russell traveled about speaking from the pulpits of Protestant churches as well as to gatherings of his own followers. In 1879, the year of his marriage to Maria Frances Ackley and also the year he began publishing Zion's Watch Tower, Russell organized some thirty study groups or congregations scattered from Ohio to the New England coast. Each local "class" or ecclesia came to recognize him as "Pastor," although geography and Russell's writing and publishing activities prevented more than an occasional pastoral visit in person.
Inevitably, Russell's increasingly divergent teachings forced his followers to separate from other church bodies and to create a denomination of their own. Beginning, as he did, in a small branch of Adventism that went to the extreme of setting specific dates for the return of Christ and the Rapture, Russell went farther out on a limb in 1882 by openly rejecting the doctrine of the Trinity. His earlier mentor Nelson H. Barbour was a Trinitarian, as was The Herald of the Morning's other assistant editor John H. Paton who joined Russell in leaving Barbour to start Zion's Watch Tower. The writings of Barbour and Paton that Russell had helped publish or distribute were Trinitarian in their theology. And the Watch Tower itself was at first vague and noncommittal on the subject. It was only after Paton broke with him in 1882, and ceased to be listed on the masthead, that Russell began writing against the doctrine of the Trinity.
By the time of his death , Charles Taze Russell had traveled more than a million miles and preached more than 30,000 sermons. He had authored works totaling some 50,000 printed pages, and nearly 20,000,000 copies of his books and booklets had been sold.
Followers had been taught that Russell himself was the "faithful and wise servant" of Matthew 24:45 and "the Laodicean Messenger," God's seventh and final spokesman to the Christian church. But he lived to see the failure of various dates he had predicted for the Rapture, and finally died on October 31, 1916, more than two years after the world was supposed to have ended, according to his calculations, in early October, 1914..
His disciples, however, saw the World War then raging as reason to believe "the end" was still imminent. They buried Russell beneath a headstone identifying him as "the Laodicean Messenger," and erected next to his grave a massive stone pyramid emblazoned with the cross and crown symbol he was fond of and the name "Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society." (The pyramid still stands off Cemetery Lane in Ross, a northern Pittsburgh suburb, where it reportedly serves as the focal point of an eerie scene each Halloween as modern-day Russellites encircle it, holding hands, in a vigil commemorating the day of his death.)
According to instructions Russell left behind, his successor to the presidency would share power with an editorial committee and with the Watch Tower corporation's board of directors, whom Russell had appointed "for life." But vice president Joseph Franklin ("Judge") Rutherford soon set about concentrating all organizational authority in his own hands. A skilled lawyer who had served as Russell's chief legal advisor, he combined legal prowess with what opponents undoubtedly saw as a Machiavellian approach to internal corporate politics. Thus he used a loophole in their appointment to unseat the majority of the Watch Tower directors without calling a membership vote. And he even had a subordinate summon the police into the Society's Brooklyn headquarters offices to break up their board meeting and evict them from the premises. (Faith on the March by A. H. Macmillan, pp. 78-80)
After securing the headquarters complex and the sect's corporate entities, Rutherford turned his attention to the rest of the organization. By gradually replacing locally elected elders with his own appointees, he managed to transform a loose collection of semi-autonomous democratically-run congregations into a tight-knit organizational machine run from his office. Some local congregations broke away, forming such Russellite splinter groups as the Chicago Bible Students, the Dawn Bible Students, and the Laymen's Home Missionary Movement, all of which continue to this day. But most Bible Students remained under his control, and Rutherford renamed them "Jehovah's Witnesses" in 1931, to distinguish them from these other groups.
Meanwhile, he shifted the sect's emphasis from the individual "character development" Russell had stressed to vigorous public witnessing work, distributing the Society's literature from house to house. By 1927 this door-to-door literature distribution had become an essential activity required of all members. The literature consisted primarily of Rutherford's unremitting series of attacks against government, against Prohibition, against "big business," and against the Roman Catholic Church. He also forged a huge radio network and took to the air waves, exploiting populist and anti-Catholic sentiment to draw thousands of additional converts. His vitriolic attacks, blaring from portable phonographs carried to people's doors and from the loudspeakers of sound cars parked across from churches, also drew down upon the Witnesses mob violence and government persecution in many parts of the world.
Like Russell, Rutherford tried his hand at prophecy and predicted that biblical patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would be resurrected in 1925 to rule as princes over the earth. (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920, pp. 89-90) They failed to show up, of course, and Rutherford quit predicting dates. In fact, referring to that prophetic failure he later admitted, "I made an ass of myself." (The Watchtower, October 1, 1984, p. 24)
Vice President Nathan Homer Knorr inherited the presidency upon Rutherford's death in 1942 but left doctrinal matters largely in the hands of Frederick W. Franz, who joined the sect under Russell and had been serving at Brooklyn headquarters since 1920. Lacking the personal magnetism and charisma of Russell and Rutherford, Knorr focused followers' devotion on the 'Mother' organization rather than on himself.
After decades of publishing books and booklets authored by its presidents Russell and Rutherford, the Watchtower Society began producing literature that was written anonymously. But it was not impersonal, since the organization itself was virtually personified, and readers were directed to "show our respect for Jehovah's organization, for she is our mother and the beloved wife of our heavenly Father, Jehovah God." (The Watchtower, May 1, 1957, p. 285)
A superb administrator, Knorr shifted the sect's focus from dynamic leadership to dynamic membership. He initiated training programs to transform members into effective recruiters. Instead of carrying a portable phonograph from house to house, playing recordings of "Judge" Rutherford's lectures at people's doorsteps, the average Jehovah's Witness began receiving instruction on how to speak persuasively. Men, women, and children learned to give sermons at the doors on a variety of subjects.
Meanwhile Fred Franz worked behind the scenes to restore faith in the sect's chronological calculations, a subject largely ignored following Rutherford's prophetic failure in 1925. The revised chronology established Christ's invisible return as having taken place in 1914 rather than 1874, and, during the 1960's, the Society's publications began pointing to the year 1975 as the likely time for Armageddon and the end of the world.
The prevailing belief among Jehovah's Witnesses today is that the Society never predicted "the end" for 1975, but that some over-zealous members mistakenly read this into the message. However, the official prediction is well documented. See, for example, the article titled "Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?" in The Watchtower of August 15, 1968, pp. 494-501. Allowing for a small margin of error, it concludes a lengthy discussion with this thought: "Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man's existence coincides with the sabbathlike thousand-year reign of Christ. . . . It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years." (p. 499) For several other quotes pointing specifically to 1975, see the book Index of Watchtower
Errors (by David A. Reed, Baker Book House, 1990) pages 106-110.
Knorr's training programs for proselytizing, plus Franz' apocalyptic projections for 1975, combined to produce rapid growth in membership, the annual rate of increase peaking at 13.5 percent in 1974. All of this pushed meeting attendance at JW Kingdom Halls from around 100,000 in 1941 to just under 5 million in 1975. Growth since then has been slower, but fairly steady in most years, with the result that nearly 11.5 million gathered at Kingdom Halls in the spring of 1992 for the Witnesses' annual communion or "Memorial" service commemorating Christ's death with unleavened bread and red wine.
During the 1970's changes took place at Watchtower headquarters in regard to presidential power. First it became accepted in theory that the Christian Church (which Jehovah's Witnesses see their organization as encompassing) should not be under one-man rule, but rather should be governed by a body similar to the twelve apostles. The 7-member board of directors of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania had previously been portrayed as fulfilling this role, but in 1971 an expanded Governing Body was created with a total of eleven members, including the seven Directors. The aim was to demonstrate that the leadership derived authority from an apostolic source, rather than from Pennsylvania corporate law.
This new Governing Body was displayed as further evidence of the sect's being the one true church, but in actuality Nathan Knorr continued to rule Jehovah's Witnesses much as Russell and Rutherford had done before him. That is, until 1975, when Governing Body members began insisting on exercising the powers granted to them in theory but that had never really been theirs in practice. Over the objections of Fred Franz the Body that he had been instrumental in creating actually began governing, so that when Nathan Knorr passed away in 1977 Franz inherited an emasculated presidency.
Franz also inherited an organization troubled by discontent over the obvious failure of his prophecies of the world's end in the autumn of 1975. Even at Brooklyn headquarters little groups meeting privately for Bible study were beginning to question not only the 1914-based chronology that produced the 1975 deadline, but also the related teaching that the "heavenly calling" of believers ended in 1935, with new converts after that date consigned to an earthly paradise for their eternal reward.
The hitherto fast-growing sect actually began losing members for the first time in decades, as people who had expected Armageddon in 1975 became disillusioned. When membership loss grew into the hundreds of thousands-a fact masked by new conversions in figures released by the Society, but reported in an investigative article in the Los Angeles Times of January 30, 1982 (pp. 4-5)-president Franz and the conservative majority on the Governing Body took action. In the spring of 1980 they initiated a crack-down on dissidents, breaking up the independent Bible study groups at headquarters, and forming "judicial committees" to have those seen as ringleaders put on trial for "disloyalty" and "apostasy."
By the time this purge culminated in the forced resignation and subsequent excommunication of the president's nephew and fellow Governing Body member Raymond V. Franz (a development Time magazine found worthy of a full-page article, Feb. 22, 1982, p. 66) a siege mentality took hold on the world-wide organization. Even Witnesses who left quietly and voluntarily for personal reasons were denounced as disloyal and were ordered shunned, former friends forbidden to say as much as "a simple 'Hello'" to them.
Thus, although Frederick W. Franz served as the sect's chief theologian for some fifty years-from the start of Knorr's presidency in 1942 until his own death on December 22, 1992-the fact that he outlived his failed prophecies by more than fifteen years required him to impose a mini-Inquisition on the membership in order to keep his doctrinal and chronological framework in force for the remainder of his lifetime.
Milton G. Henschel's selection as fifth Watchtower president on December 30, 1992, is truly significant for the 13 million now attending Kingdom Halls. At first glance the choice of a staunch conservative for the post may seem to guarantee a continuation of the status quo, with little change in the offing for Jehovah's Witnesses. But a closer look reveals this appointment as the conservative old guard's last stand-an indication that radical change in the sect's leadership and doctrines is imminent.
At age 72 Henschel became the second-youngest member of the Governing Body, and he was selected to lead by men several years older than he is. (Both the average age and the median age at the time of Henschel's appointment calculated out to about 82 years.) With members in their eighties known to sleep through meetings and to vote on matters upon being awakened (See eyewitness Raymond Franz's account in his book Crisis of Conscience, p. 40.) the Body is losing its ability to provide purposeful and decisive leadership. Henschel was no doubt chosen in part due to his having vitality others lacked. Obviously, these aging leaders will not be able to hold the reigns of power much longer. The men who shared in building the Watchtower into what it is today will soon leave it behind for others to run.
In the decades following the death of founder Charles Taze Russell, his successor J. F. Rutherford found himself forced to re-write many of the sect's major doctrines. Much the same can be expected when JWs of a new generation inherit the positions currently occupied by Milton Henschel and his fellow elderly Governing Body members. When new leaders eventually take over, will they drop the ban on blood transfusions? Only time will tell. But, even if they do, it will make no difference for those who have already died, nor for those Witnesses continuing to die while the teaching remains in place.
Adapted by Jehovah's Christian Witness, from the book "Worse Than Waco: Jehovah's Witnesses Hide a Tragedy" copyright 1993 by David A. Reed, P.O. Box 819, Assonet, MA 02702. For a more detailed account of Watchtower history see the book "BLOOD ON THE ALTAR" by David A. Reed (Amherst, NY: Prometheus Publishers, 1996).
http://www.bible.ca/jw-history.htm
 
plmkrzy
plmkrzy 14 years ago


PS
Sorry it is SOOOo long. I just couldn't decide on what to cut out so I left all of it.
 
borgfree
borgfree 14 years ago


Plmkrzy,
It sounds accurate. It agrees with everything I have researched in the past several years.
Borgfree
 
teenyuck
teenyuck 14 years ago


The history, through Franz becoming President, sounds like it came directly from James Penton's book. Penton provided much more proof of these claims. He provided references to all the publications and his history of Russell in the early years seems legit.
It reads properly to me. I just finished reading CoC and Apocalypse Delayed.
 
minimus
minimus 14 years ago


Channel C has this report : THE BRANCH COORDINATOR OF JAPAN HAS BEEN DISFELLOWSHIPPED!!!
add this to the short history of the watchtower organization!
 
plmkrzy
plmkrzy 14 years ago


Thanks all for the reply. I thought it sounded fairly accurate from all the research I've done which would be considered limited to some of those who really dug into his background.
I'm curious now about this web site. If all of the information on this site were at least as accurate as this, then it would be a web site worth book marking for future reference on other literature. I'm always looking for web sites that I can count on for accuracy.
Thanks guys..(and puff)

plum
 
crawdad2
crawdad2 14 years ago

thanks, plmkrzy.......... i enjoyed the refresher course........... especially all the stuff about russel's early days, and the 1874 1878 dates and predictions............ and his association with the second aventist movements.
 
Nathan Natas
Nathan Natas 14 years ago



For a brief overview, the summary of WTS history is pretty accurate.
I would only add that Fred Franz was involved in "Rutherford's" 1925 resurrection prophecy, using it as a blatant cover story for Rutherford's re-location to San Diego California, where he lived at Beth Sarim, "The House of Princes" (built 1929, sold 1948) which he was simply maintaining until King David, Moses, Solomon, Enoch et al returned in 1925. Near the Beth Sarim was the WTS property aptly named Beth Shan ( House of Security) which was a bomb shelter (built in 1939, transferred to WTS in 1940, sold in 1945) to protect Rutherford in the event the war or major shortages came the West Coast of the USA. It was a survivalist's dream-come-true. Rutherford died in January 1942 and the properties had served their purpose; the "princes" never appeared, and nobody in the leadership of the WTS had ever expected them to. [See Farkel's excellent reportage on the Franz/Rutherford San Diego conspiracy.]
I would also add an up-to-date list of the Presidents of the WTS:
Charles Taze Russell (anointed) 1879 - 1916
Joseph Franklin Rutherford (anointed) 1917 - 1942
Nathan Homer Knorr (anointed) 1942 - 1977
Frederick William Franz (anointed) 1977 - 1992
Milton George Henschel (anointed) 1993 - 2000
Don Adams (not anointed) 2000 - present
Note that Don Adams is not "anointed." After the legal re-structuring of the WTS prior to his selection as President, the requirement that the President of the WTS be an anointed member of the governing body was dropped.

Edited by - Nathan Natas on 11 July 2002 21:42:50
 
plmkrzy
plmkrzy 14 years ago


I would only add that Fred Franz was involved in "Rutherford's" 1925 resurrection prophecy, using it as a blatant cover story for Rutherford's re-location to San Diego California
[See Farkel's excellent reportage on the Franz/Rutherford San Diego conspiracy.]
Thank's Nathan for the reference.
plum
 
SYN
SYN 14 years ago


TO ALL JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES WITH CHILDREN LURKING ON THIS SITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With members in their eighties known to sleep through meetings and to vote on matters upon being awakened (See eyewitness Raymond Franz's account in his book Crisis of Conscience, p. 40.)
THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DECIDING WHETHER YOUR CHILDREN LIVE OR DIE THROUGH THEIR BLOOD POLICY!
<screaming is neccessary in the face of such an evil>
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
TerryWalstrom
IMPORTANT TOOLS for parents who are Ex-J-Dubs
by TerryWalstrom 8 months ago
defender of truth
Matthew 24 - "This Generation": If you are a Jehovahs Witness that dares to study the Bible itself...
by defender of truth 6 months ago
BluesBrother
How did Matthew Use the Word "Generation"?
by BluesBrother 6 months ago
FusionTheism
Abraham, Isaac, Jacob are IN the Kingdom of Heaven?
by FusionTheism 9 months ago
Divergent
Does growing up in a religious family make you MEAN?
by Divergent 4 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/31802/short-history-watchtower-organization






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Re: Russell's connection to Masons and Secret Societies
/  





 

Re: Russell's connection to Masons and Secret Societies
by Enlightened1 10 years ago 17 Replies latest 10 years ago   watchtower scandals
5
10
20
Enlightened1
Enlightened1 10 years ago

I'm going to attempt to copy and paste a very compelling and detailed article dealing with CT Russells pyramidology, WT symbols and their occult origins. FYI Fritz Springmeier revealed in an interview with an ex-member of the secret illuminati that Russell was in fact murdered on Halloween day in a secret society ritual sacrifice. I will post this interview later. The dead give away concerning his secret society connection is of course the fixation with the great pyramid at Giza, his use of patent secret society terms, i.e. Golden dawn, and even the WT corporate seal, all having origins in Egyptian mysticism. Here it goes:
The following information is excerpts from reliable sources throughout the web. Most of these articles quote from the Watchtowers own printed material, which at one time the Watchtower ordered to be turned in by its members. To fully understand these excerpts one must read the material from which they came. It has been proven that The Watchtower Society has been involved in Enochian magick since its founding by Charles Taze Russell. Russell himself has been linked to a Satanic bloodline and was operating with key figures whose agenda has been a The Satanic Bloodlines
To bring about a new world order one would need to infiltrate all matters of government, religion, school systems, police enforcement, etc., etc. The following list is only a partial list. Groups Promoting A Globalist, Anti-American Agenda
You would then need a strong-arm force such as the United Nations to enforce this agenda worldwide.
"No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a LUCIFERIAN Initiation." (David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations)
I hate to say this more than you can imagine, but through research and direction of the Holy Spirit, I have come to the conclusion that it is the United States who will help bring about this new world order. Our history is not what we have been taught. Our true history has been hidden by these key figures of power, the Satanic Elite. Satan's right hand men. Rewriting U.S. History Even the late American Professor Revilo P. Oliver, a confirmed atheist, was forced to conclude: "The question of precisely what fires the will of the wealthy supranational elites seeking to manipulate and control world events, has not escaped the attention of serious students of conspiracies and cover-ups. A theory that a conspiracy has been working consciously for many centuries is not very plausible unless one attributes to them a religious unity. That is tantamount to regarding them as Satanists engaged in the worship and service of supernatural evil. The directors of the conspiracy must see or otherwise directly perceive manifestations, which convince them of the existence and power of Lucifer. And since subtle conspirators must be very shrewd men, not likely to be deceived by auto-suggestion, hypnosis, or drugs, we should have to conclude that they probably are in contact with a force of pure evil." Prof. Revilo P. Oliver, (Conspiracy or Degeneracy? )
You may be familiar with the term of the Illuminati. The enlightened ones. Some of these are the people who founded this country. The . A large portion of men who wrote our constitution. Almost every one of the Presidents have been involved with this group at some level, or have been lead by the power behind them. The group mostly responsible for the part of the New World Order has infiltrated the Freemasons. Yes they hide it very well through good deeds and much secrecy. But it is a large portion of the Freemasons who are responsible under the direction of Satan himself for the state of affairs here in the As I said earlier, almost every President has been involved in Freemasonry. Start here. U.S. Presidents and The Masonic Power Structure
Now we come to Russell's part. Russell was a freemason. It has been recorded in his own material, his admittance to being a Freemason." I am very glad to have this particular opportunity of saying a word about some of the things in which we agree with our Masonic friends, because we are speaking in a building dedicated to Masonry, and we also are Masons. I am a Freemason." Charles Taze Russell. (The page 120)
The Rothschild's had long had a plan to create a personal fiefdom for themselves and the Illuminati in Palestine and that plan involved manipulating Jewish people to settle the area as their "homeland." Charles Taze Russell, of the Illuminati-reptilian Russell bloodline, was the man who founded the Watchtower Society, better known as the Jehovah's Witnesses. He was a Satanist, a pedophile according to his wife, and most certainly Illuminati. His new "religion (mind-control cult) was funded by the Rothschild's and he was a friend of theirs, just like the founders of the Mormons who were also Rothschild-funded through Kuhn, Loeb, and Co. Russell and the Mormon founders were all Freemasons. In 1880, Charles Taze Russell, this friend of the Rothschild's, predicted that the Jews would return to their homeland. It was about the only prediction Russell ever got right. Why? Because he knew that was the plan. He wrote to the Rothschild's praising their efforts to establish a Jewish homeland in . WAS HITLER A ROTHSCHILD?
No Jesus was the foundation stone; there were no stones chiseled out before he came; none could be accepted before that. He did the great work of founding this great order to which we belong, the order of free and Accepted Masonry. (The page 121)
You know that in these orders of Masonry, as they progress from one step to another; they learn more and more, and there are Masons in the thirty-second degree that know a great many things that Masons on the fourteenth or sixteenth plane that would not know. (The page 123)
Albert Pike addressing the 23 Supreme Councils of the world on July 14, 1889:- "To you, Sovereign Grand Instructors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees: 'the Masonic Religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the LUCIFERIAN Doctrine. . ."
Mat 21:42] Jesus said to them, "Did you never read in the scriptures: 'The stone that the builders (aka Freemasons) rejected has become the cornerstone; by the Lord has this been done, and it is wonderful in our eyes'?
[Mat 21:43] Therefore, I say to you, the will be taken away from you and given to a people that will produce its fruit.
A thousand years during which these Knights Templars are to scatter blessings to all the families of the Earth. We may not wear our white feathers now but we will all have white raiment by and by. "They shall walk with Him in white for they are worthy." Now the question arises, How can we become members of this order? Would you like to become one of these Knights Templar on a heavenly plane. (The page 122) see also: SATANIC SOURCES CLAIM KNIGHTS TEMPLAR TO BE SATANIC! THIS IS MORE PROOF THAT FREEMASONRY IS ALSO SATANIC
All our historians, at least nearly all of them, agree that Freemasonry owes very much to certain occult societies or groups that flourished -- often in secrecy -- during the late Middle Ages, and even into the after-Reformation times. Chief among these were the Rosicrucian's and the Knights Templar. (H. L. Haywood, The Great Teachings of the Lodge (Richmond, Virginia: Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Company, 1971), page 94.) C.T. Russell's View of Masonry and Symbolism External Link| mason1.gif
Many articles have proved that Freemasonry is involved with Satanism. Start here. FREEMASONRY PROVEN TO WORSHIP SATAN * FORMER ILLUMINIST WITCH REVEALS WITCHCRAFT TIE TO FREEMASONRY * THE MASONIC NEW WORLD ORDER * Freemasonry Exposed * Communion With the Gods The Pagan Altar of Freemasonry
Who controls the Freemasons? The Jesuits!! Who Controls the Jesuits? Lucifer!! The Black Pope
The Jesuits have met and enforced their Protocols. The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion
Russell was buried with a pyramid site marker or headstone if you will, with Masonic symbols engraved on it.

The above picture was taken from a Masons site in . They have since removed the picture after this article.

The above crown with the cross is very much a Masonic symbol. A close up of the plaque below reads "Watchtower Bible and Tract Society".

Russell's Instructions for his funeral
I desire to be buried in the plot of ground owned by our Society, in the Rosemont United Cemetery, and all the details of arrangements respecting the funeral service I leave in the care of my sister, Mrs. M. M. Land, and her daughters, Alice and May, or such of them as may survive me, with the assistance and advice and cooperation of the brethren, as they may request the same. Instead of an ordinary funeral discourse, I request that they arrange to have a number of the brethren, accustomed to public speaking, make a few remarks each, that the service be very simple and inexpensive and that it be conducted in the Bible House Chapel or any other place that may be considered equally appropriate or more so. (from Watchtower Reprints, 12/1/16) for those wishing to visit the gravesite: The area is the North Hills area of . It is in the "Rosemont United Cemeteries at Allegheny, in the Family plot, according to his request." (Jehovah's Witnesses In The Divine Purpose, 1959, p. 62) Charles T. Russell Gravesite External Link
Owned by our society, in the Bethel Family plot. Look at picture #2 for the society who owns this family plot. External Links


1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9
 
So I ask you to entertain a question. If Russell wasn't a Mason then why would the Watchtower allow a Masonic erected pyramid to remain at his grave site. It wouldn't be the fact that Russell is buried next to the Greater Pittsburgh Masonic Center would it?
Update: The above crown and cross is the Masons York Rite Knights Templar emblem. See below.

The Crown and cross emblem on the left from this Masonic Drawing clearly indicates the emblem is the York Rite of Masonry Knights Templar. To see the full picture click here.
Some might mistake it for a Christian symbol, but Masonic author Ray Denslow reveals its true meaning:

"The Cross and Crown may be said to be confined almost exclusively to the historical degrees in Masonry as exemplified in the various orders of knighthood of York and Scottish rites. In Gaul we find the cross to have been a solar symbol when it had equal arms and angles; to the Phoenicians it was an instrument of sacrifice to their God, Baal; and to the Egyptians, the crux ansata was his symbol of eternal life." (Ray V. Denslow, Masonic Portraits, Transactions of this Missouri Lodge of Research, vol. #29, p.7---emphasis in the original)  http://poweredbychrist.homestead.com/files/dallas1/seminary1.htm External Link
Now that we have established that Russell was a York Rite Knights Templar, same as 32 or 33rd degree Freemason. Lets look at Enochian Magic. What is Enochian Magic? Have you ever heard of Aleister Crowley? He was one of the most evil men besides Hitler to walk this Earth. In his book "Confessions." claimed that he had been initiated as a 33-Degree Mason in the Ancient and Accepted Rite of Masonry (A&AR). He probably did this in , where he went after the break-up with the Golden Dawn. To learn a bit more about start here. Aleister Crowley. See also illuminati_faq.htm The Order Of The Golden Dawn Golden Dawn - Ubermen von der Golden Dawn - Hitler
There are books on the subject available to anyone who wants to learn this Enochian magic. Learn the laws of Enochian Magick, how to use the Watchtowers and the six forces of Magick, learn Enochian Yoga and travel in the Body of Light.


The Enochian Magick of Dr. John Dee: The Most Powerful System of Magick in its Original, Unexpurgated Form Geoffrey James


Order# K367 ISBN# 1-56718-367-0
6'x9", illus., appendices Price: 14.95
 
 
You may have heard people speak of it in hushed tones: Enochian magick! Some say it is dangerous. Others say it is the most powerful magick known. Now you can find out the truth when you read The Enochian Magick of Dr. John Dee by Geoffrey James (previously published as The Enochian Evocation of Dr. John Dee).
This system was received by Dr. John Dee, astrologer to Queen Elizabeth I of , and his assistant, Edward Kelly. Together, through a series of evocations, they discovered a system of magick so potent that some people fear to use it. Now you can learn the entire Enochian system as never before.
Previously, people went to secondary sources such as the Golden Dawn or Aleister Crowley for information on the Enochian system. Here, for the first time, are the diaries of Dr. Dee, which reveal the entire system so you can use it for a wide variety of magical purposes.
Presented here is the definitive version of the forty-eight angelic keys according to Dee himself. Revealed are the names of the sixteen good angels who are most skilled and powerful in medicine and in the curing of diseases, as well as the sixteen angels of the four elements. Every step of the method by which Dee and Kelly worked their evocations is fully explained so you can recreate their experiments and tap into some of the most powerful magick available.
 
The Watchtowers . It was believed that angels ruled a certain compass direction and they lived in the ends of the earth (more like the ends of the universe). These angels are to record every event that occurs in the world.
WATCHTOWERS, GUARDIANS OF: 1) A term used to describe the Elementals who are Energy Forms, Raiths or Spirits of the 4 Elements. 2) Originally used in the Enochian Tradition of Ceremonial Magick but whose usage is now widespread. 3) Those Entities connected to the Elements & Directions & certain attributes as follows:
North Air thought & intellect Male yellow
East Earth stable, solid, dependable Female green...
South Fire change, passion, willpower Male red.....
West Water emotions & purification Female blue....
Center Spirit intuitiveness unisexed soul
They are both visible & physical and invisible & spiritual. They are invoked during ritual as protectors of our Circle of Power & sometimes as advisors. Some 'set' these Guardians, during rituals in a more complex exercise than simply invoking the Elements. http://www.ancientpathway.com/reference/glossary.html External Link
See also : The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn ® / Golden Dawn Enochian Magic External Link
Now lets look at a bit of history of Enochian Magic. The Golden Dawn history. This secret society made great impact on the European magic of the XX century with the publishing of its secret material by its former members. According to a story that circulated among the members of the society, it is based on a coded manuscript that Win Westcot, one of the founders, freemason and occultist found in an antique store. Then Westcot contacted Samuel Lidel McGregor Mathers, who was a respectable magician and Egyptologist in that time, and they together decoded the manuscript which consisted of four complicated rituals. In the manuscript they found an address of a certain person called Mrs. Spriengel from who was responsible for a secret magic order, supposedly from the tradition of the Rosicrucian's. From Mrs. Spriengel they received a letter of approval for founding the secret magic order Golden Dawn with the first lodge Isis-Urania in . The founders and the heads of the society were Mathers, Westcot, and Woodman, another English occultist and freemason. Early Medieval magic
Learn Aumism: the doctrines of the Golden Age. Its Modern day founder is a freemason, Rosicrucian, Martinist Lodges, Knights of the Holy Grail, occultist and so on. Aumism - Universal Religion - The Doctrine of the Golden Age
OK we have proved that Enochian magick is a reality. We see that Russell was involved with Freemasonry and used Freemasonry symbols on his earlier magazines. We also learn that the Freemasons were involved in the occult and The Golden Dawn order, which used Enochian Magic. The Freemason is heavy into the Pyramids and the worship of Isis and Osiris. The ancient Egyptians, for example, constantly refer to a remote Golden Age they called Zep Tepi, 'The First Time' of Osiris, (Both of these terms are older terms for NEW WORLD ORDER) which they believed had long predated the Pyramid Age. The Sphinx: Guardian of the Treasure of the gods External link
We have also learned those three phrases of terminology that are popular with Enochian Magic, and the Freemasons are "Millennial Dawn", "Golden Age" and "Watchtower." Russell named his organization Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. His earlier magazine was called The Golden Age. Before the name of Jehovah's Witnesses was established the followers of Russell's teachings were known as Russellites and Millennial Dawnist. Not a chance this is coincidence.
It is the restoration of that corrupt "Golden Age" of incarnate demons which the Egyptian mystery religion represented and continues to represent. It is an ancient violent and immoral world which developed before the Flood which New Age spirit guides are seeking to re-establish, but which will be swept away by the War of Armageddon. The term "Golden Age" is a very misleading one, as is the term "spirituality" when used in conjunction with Adam Weishaupt whose "spirituality" was referred to as "horrifying." The Illuminati's fundamental principles pervert the noble meaning of spirituality, and are working for the establishment of a "horrifying" "Golden Age." New Age Army Expose, Psychic Warrior Subversion Exposed
Now keep all of this in mind when reading the Watchtowers false predictions, and their constant change of doctrines. Oh yes and a little FYI. (For Your Information). The WT Society performs a secret ritual every year, which is their primary ritual. This ritual is actually the ancient Gnostic (Satanic) ritual of saying no to the body of Christ. Of course the lower rank and files JW's do not know this. This ancient Satanic ritual is now secretly practiced under the disguise of the Memorial Supper - where the elements of communion are passed and no one partakes of the elements. (When I say "no one" I mean that in a qualified sense-only a small group is allowed to partake. The actual figures of how many partake of the elements is a totally fictitious figure according to my sources, which is created at headquarters in . The_Russell_Bloodline
In their main textbooks for indoctrinating new converts, "You Can Live Forever in on Earth," and "Knowledge that Leads to Everlasting Life", the Watchtower Society subtly presents circular reasoning and cleverly formulated arguments garnished with half-truths to begin the process of thought control on unsuspecting individuals sincerely interested in learning about the Bible.
Here is a bit of Watchtower History. At the end of each excerpt will be the link from which it came.
Biblical Test for a Prophet
The test for a prophet is found in Deuteronomy 18:20-22. This scripture teaches that a prophet must be tested by checking his prophecies. Also. Jesus said, "Beware of false prophets which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. "This is not telling us to examine a prophet's good works. Many false prophets have led moral lives. The fruit of a fig tree is its figs. The fruit of a prophet is his prophecies. One false prophecy (even if some true prophecies are given) and that person is a false prophet. It does not matter how sincere he or his followers are. It does not matter how often his followers pray or what feelings they seem to receive in answer to their prayers. He is a false prophet.
Yes their prediction's unknown to most starts back this far.
1776 "And this long persecution, in which many were purified and made white and tried,' and in which the Mother of Harlots was 'drunk with the blood of the saints and the martyrs of Jesus' (Rev. 17:6) ended as we have already shown, practically in 1776." {BATT 584} [Also see 1799]
1816 Jehovah's Witnesses trace their origins to the nineteenth century Adventist movement in . That movement began with William Miller, a Baptist lay preacher whom, in the year 1816, began proclaiming that Christ would return in 1843. His predictions of the Second Coming or Second Advent captured the imagination of thousands in Baptist and other mainline churches. Perhaps as many as 50,000 followers put their trust in Miller's chronological calculations and prepared to welcome the Lord, while, as the appointed time approached, others watched nervously from a distance. Recalculations moved the promised second advent from March 1843 to March, 1844, and then to October of that year. Alas, that date too passed uneventfully. The Branch Davidians who died at , under the leadership of David Koresh also trace their roots to the same Millerite source through a different line of descent. A Short History of the Watchtower Organization
1872 Charles Taze Russell (One of The Satanic_bloodlines who founded the International Bible Students Association. Forerunner to the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Before they became known as the Jehovah's Witnesses, they were called Russellites, Millennial Dawnists, and International Bible Students. Russell was a Knights Templar Mason of York Rite, in Allegheny Pa. Confirmed Mason. Also Russell had a secret Rosicrucian membership with the Quakertown, PA group of Rosicrucian's, as revealed by the pyramid he ordered erected over his grave site. His use of the Winged-Sun-Disk. Russell owned a cemetery in . Leading Satanists try to own cemeteries for several reasons. First, it facilitates the disposal of human sacrifices, which are buried in pieces below the fresh holes dug for someone else's burial. When the casket is placed in the hole, it would be rare for anyone to dig below the casket level ever again. Second, magic power is associated with cemeteries. The spiritual power of the dead is pulled up by making a circle of light over them, and then within the circle a naked Satanist lays. Third, specific bones are sought such as the skulls and left hands. Left hands are preserved in order to hold candles for certain ceremonies. Confirmed Mason. The_Russell_Bloodline

Full view of Watchtower assembly hall used for years in , still in use.

Winged sun god Ra on outside of Assembly Hall

Chrysler uses this symbol to.

What is this winged disk? One explanation is: ( Holy Order of The Winged Disk, an old magickal organization dedicated to hermetic, qabalistic, gnostic, rosicrucian, and alchemical practices. The Winged Disk recognizes that there is a seed of truth in every tradition. The International Academy of Hermetic Knowledge is an independent home study program offering the techniques of western magick, spiritual practice, and special guidance not available in any books. Phaedron is named as its director. He implements the Order's philosophy of approaching the subject in a thorough, safe, and realistic manner. As an Adept, he receives sincere seekers, teaches privately, counsels spiritually, and holds small group classes in ritual magick and related esoteric methods. ( "Teachings of the Winged Disk" by Phaedron Info/Order book )
John Russell - Pastor C. T. Russell's stepmother was executor of his will. His mother was the one chosen to dance with famous Mason and Illuminatus Lafayette when he was in . 1. (Nevin, Mellier. The Social Mirror A Character Sketch of the Women of ) 2. (Vicinity during the first Century of the County’s existence. Society of today. : T.A. Nevin Publisher, 1888, p. 19. b. The Directory) 3. (1878-79 showing the widow of John, and c. John Russell in the 1850 Census, and John Russell’s Will.)
Things Russell Would Currently be Disfellowshipped (excommunicated) For: Anti-organizational teachings, celebrating birthdays, Christmas and holiday observance, military involvement tolerated, not draining blood from food, considering self to be the "faithful and discreet slave," selling "Miracle Wheat," dabbling in the occult and signing his own books. Watchtower Presidential Era Summaries External Link
Charles Taze Russell died Halloween night, or was he silenced? River died Halloween night also. Or was he Satanically ritually murdered? "Who Killed River Phoenix?" | Halloween Deaths: Satanic Ritual Murders or Natural Causes?
1874 The Lord became present in October, 1874" {TKIC 1923 Ed 235} [many other references in HOTW, TIAH 170, OLOR 27, HIS2 133]
1874-8 "Our Lord's presence as Bridegroom and Reaper was recognized during the first three and a half years, from A.D. 1874 to A.D. 1878." {TIAH 1913 Ed 239}
1876 January when he was 23 years old, Russell received a copy of The Herald of the Morning, an Adventist magazine published by Nelson H. Barbour of . One of the distinguishing features of Barbour's group at that time was their belief that Christ returned invisibly in 1874, and this concept presented in The Herald captured Russell's attention. It meant that this Adventist splinter group had not remained defeated, as others had, when Christ failed to appear in 1874 as Adventist leaders had predicted; somehow this small group had managed to hold onto the date by affirming that the Lord had indeed returned at the appointed time, only invisibly. Wealthy Russell paid Barbour's way to and met with him to discuss both beliefs and finances. The upshot was that Russell became the magazine's financial backer and was added to the masthead as an Assistant Editor. He contributed articles for publication as well as monetary gifts, and Russell's small study group similarly became affiliated with Barbour's. Russell and Barbour believed and taught that Christ's invisible return in 1874 would be followed soon afterward, in the spring of 1878 to be exact, by the Rapture-the bodily snatching away of believers to heaven. The Witnesses do not believe in rapture in modern day doctrines, but that only a 144.000 will go to heaven. A Short History of the Watchtower Organization External Link
1878 When this expected Rapture failed to occur on time in 1878, The Herald's editor, Mr. Barbour, came up with "new light" on this and other doctrines. (Sound familiar) Russell, however, rejected some of the new ideas and persuaded other members to oppose them. Finally, Russell quit the staff of the Adventist magazine and started his own. He called it 's watchtower and Herald of Christ's Presence and published its first issue with the date July 1879. In the beginning it had the same mailing list as The Herald of the Morning and considerable space was devoted to refuting the latter on points of disagreement, Russell having taken with him a copy of that magazine's mailing list when he resigned as assistant editor. At this point Charles Russell no longer wanted to consider himself an Adventist, nor a Millerite. But, he continued to view Miller and Barbour as instruments chosen by God to lead His people in the past. The formation of a distinct denomination around Russell was a gradual development. His immediate break was, not with Adventism, but with the person and policies of N. H. Barbour. A Short History of the Watchtower Organization External Link
1891 For 62 years, 1891 to 1953, the WTS taught that God resided on the star Alcyone in the Pleiades constellation and that from this star he governed the universe! This belief was taught in 1891 in Volume 3 of Studies in the Scriptures and was based on passages in the Bible. The WTS also taught that the Great Pyramid of Egypt provided additional proof of God's throne in the Pleiades! (The Golden Age 1924 September 10 pp. 793-794) Astrology and the Watchtower Society * Jehovah: Ancient Astronaut?
1902 July 15, While it is true that the white race exhibits some qualities of superiority over any other, we are to remember that there are wide differences in the same Caucasian (Semitic and Aryan) family; and also we should remember that some of the qualities which have given this branch of the human family its preeminence in the world are not such as can be pointed to as in all respects admirable....The secret of the greater intelligence and aptitude of the Caucasian undoubtedly in great measure is to be attributed to the commingling of blood amongst its various branches; and this was evidently forced in large measure by circumstances under divine control. (Zion's Watch Tower, July 15, 1902, p.215-216) Blacks and the Watchtower * The Population Control Agenda
1904 8th of April. Aleister Crowley claimed that, in Cairo at 12 noon exactly and for the following two days at the exact same time—he actually heard a voice in his ear, dictating the words of the text (as if through some transmitter in his brain), and that he transcribed them faithfully. It was not "inspired," then, so much as received. The voice itself claimed to be that of Aiwass, or Aiwaz, "the minister of Hoor-paar-kraat," or otherwise, Horus, the god of force and fire, child of Isis and Osiris, and self-appointed conquering lord of the New Aeon, officially announced through his chosen scribe, "the prince-priest the Beast." This much of ’s controversial life and claims is more or less confirmed. It is, as promised, to be found, there in the writings themselves—the proof as it were is in the pudding. Anyone who has read the work, and suffered the resulting conflictive feelings of admiration and disgust, will not doubt that there is something about the "little red book" that puts it in a class all its own. The whole apparatus of ceremonial magick (as conceived and adapted by the Golden Dawn and its offshoots, many of which were directly influenced by ) that formed the true inner protocol of Nazism (originally spawned by the Thule Society) is dedicated—in theory—to the one single end and purpose of: contact with preterhuman or extraterrestrial forces.
1906 This testimony was given by Mrs. Russell on direct examination on Thursday, April 26, 1906 from a suit for a separation brought by Martha (sic) F. Russell against Charles Taze Russell, her husband, popularly known as Pastor Russell Then he said, "I am like a jellyfish. I float around here and there. I touch this one and that one, and if she responds I take her to me, and if not, I float on to others"; and she wrote that out so that I could remember it for sure when I would speak to him about it. And he confessed that he said those things. Founder of Jehovah's witnesses: CHARLES TAZE RUSSELL- CHILD MOLESTER!
1906 Two of the key early Watchtower Society leaders were Bundy's. These were Walter H. Bundy, who went with Charles Taze Russell to on his May 29-31, 1909 trip, and Edwin Bundy who worked at the Bethel Headquarters at the turn of the century and traveled around the for the Watchtower Society from 1906 to 1910. The_Bundy_bloodline
1914 The supposed end of the "Gentile Times", Jesus would come to judge the earth and annihilate the wicked. A Short History of Jehovah's Witnesses
1914 Russell's prediction for Armageddon fails.
1914 The Watchtower Society started transferring all of the doctrines about 1874 to 1914. They explained that Christ's kingdom had been set up invisibly in 1914, and that although secular governments were still in place, their rule was no longer valid. Based on the Society's writings, Jehovah's Witnesses looked forward to momentous events in the year 1918.
1915 Russell's prediction for Armageddon fails.
1916 Joseph Franklin Rutherford, assumes control of the Watchtower and Bible Tract Society. (Jehovah's Witnesses) In Rutherford's (The Finished Mystery), published in 1917, they said that Armageddon would really break loose in 1918 with the destruction of "Christendom" and all the church members and by 1920 all kingdoms of the earth would pass away. In 1918 the "little flock" would pass beyond the veil and 1921 would be the last year to make it to heaven and would see the death of all in the "great multitude" class. The Finished Mystery claimed, as did other Watchtower material in 1917, that they were directed and supervised by the spirit of the dead "Pastor" Russell and others of the deceased "anointed" class. This is necromancy, or communicating with the dead, which the modern day Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has called spiritism and demonism. (But yet they still use and teach his doctrines, and their Bible inspired by demons) Was Rutherford a Spirit Medium? In relating to friends he could be despotic; in dealing with enemies, ruthless. He was moody and sometimes blunt to the point of rudeness with an explosive temper that could occasionally excite him to physical violence. He also had a streak of self-righteousness, which caused him to regard anyone who opposed him as of the Devil. But most curious was the fact that while in some ways he was a Puritan of Puritans, in others he was thoroughly dissolute. He used vulgar language, suffered from alcoholism, and was once publicly accused by one of his closest associates of attending a nude burlesque show with two fellow elders." (Apocalypse Delayed, University of Toronto Press, 1985, p. 47-48) Jehovah's Organization or Joe's Organization?
“Even though a teetotaler, Moyle can hardly be charged with being overly critical of the drinking habits of his brethren at , and he was quite accurate in his assessment of the judge’s self-righteous, choleric actions and breakfast-table tirades. Furthermore, he was simply eager to correct what to him were serious examples of unchristian conduct and to stress that had an immediate responsibility to remedy the conditions which had caused his resignation and protest. But Rutherford, who sometimes had difficulty in distinguishing his own position from that of Jehovah or Christ Jesus, regarded Moyle’s letter as nothing short of apostasy itself.” (Apocalypse Delayed, page 81 (soft-cover)
was cited for contempt of court on at least three occasions. Proof of this is found in Morgan County Book 13, page 251 for August 8, 1894 and Cooper County Book 2, page 376 on May 15,1895. His worst known impropriety in law during the years was recorded in Permanent File #5113 of the Cooper County Circuit Court dated February 4, 1896 and involved a case heard by Judge Dorsey W. Shackleford. was representing the National Cash Register Company against David Nicholson of Boonville.
After Nicholson had levied a writ of attachment on a cash register machine that had been used at the saloon of Charley Merstetter, a deputy constable named Wright went to seize the machine but Rutherford met him at the saloon, held papers before Wright and told him that if Wright would go to see William Muir Williams the attorney representing Nicholson and who later became a state supreme court judge, then Williams would confirm that Rutherford held possession of the machine. Wright left the machine to speak with attorney Williams and upon returning found that machine gone. Rutherford then lied that the machine had been sent on to Sedalia, Missouri, for deputy Wright found it "concealed" in a second office of Rutherford beneath some papers.
The Best is Yet to Come. See pt2

The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (WTBTS) has inserted numerous changes into a proper translation of the Bible in an effort to validate the non-Christian doctrines of the Jehovah's Witnesses (JW's). Consequently, they claim that their New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (NWT) is superior to all others.
Example: Exodus 3:14
"I am" changed to "I shall prove to be."
The revision clouds the connection between God's self-proclaimed title and Jesus' proclamation of being the same in John 8:58, as the JW rejects the deity of Jesus. Misleading Revisions in the New World Translation
They have added words to Scripture, which changes the meaning of the texts to agree with their theology. Notice the Watchtower’s rendering of Colossians 1:16,17, where the word "other" has been added four times to the text, completely changing its meaning. When Paul wrote those passages that the Son created all things, it is obvious that the Son was not himself created. The Watchtower, however, believes that the Son is also a created being and has therefore added "other" - not found in the Greek Biblical text at all - to make it appear that the Son is also a creature. As mentioned before, the Translation Committee has added the word "a" to John 1:1 to make the Son a creature rather than God Himself. Take note also of the same deceitfulness displayed in Philippians 2:9 where the word "other" is again added, when it is not found or even suggested in the original Greek. The Worlds Most Dangerous Book!!
Dr. Charles L. Feinberg of : "I can assure you that the rendering which the Jehovah's Witnesses give John 1:1 is not held by any reputable Greek scholar."
Letter by Dr. Julius Mantey - Misquoted by the Watchtower Society
Letter by Dr. Barclay - Misquoted by the Watchtower Society
Board of Directors after Russell's Death J.A. Bohnet, R.J. Martin, Giovanni DeCecca, F.H. Robinson, C.J. Woodworth, A.H.MacMillan, J.F.Rutherford, WE. VanAmburg. To see a photo follow the link. http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2919/thejudge.html
1918 * Note: the term "evil slave" was foisted upon the Dawn and kindred groups by that most evil of evil slaves "Judge" Joseph F. Rutherford in his jealous rampage to hold back the mass defections that were taking place when he barged his way into the Watch Tower Society boardroom and seized power in 1918. Meet the \Evil\ Slave The Watchtower Society in general and 'Judge' Rutherford in particular) would love for you to believe that these groups are dead, nothing could be further from the truth. Some of the founders of the Dawn Bible Students (and other groups) were originally on the board of directors of the original Watchtower Society and were actually named by Charles Taze Russell as his successors before "Judge" strong-armed them out. They have an active website here. Dawn Bible Students Association. Publishers of The Dawn Magazine, A Herald of Christ's Presence. Note: I wouldn't listen to anything this group has to say either.
1918 's Armageddon prediction fails.
1918 According to Thelemic legend, in 1918 Aleister Crowley came into contact with a interdimensional entity named Lam, who by the way is a dead ringer for the popular conception of the 'alien grey ' depicted on the cover of Whitley Strieber's Communion. From this purported encounter, some have inferred that the industrious Mr. Crowley intentionally opened a portal of entry--through the practice of a magick ritual, The Amalantrah Working--which allowed the likes of Lam and other 'alien greys' a passageway onto the Earth plane. Furthermore, this portal may have been further enlarged by Parsons and Hubbard in 1946 with the commencement of the Babalon Working, thus facilitating a monumental paradigm shift in human consciousness. Sex and Rockets: The Occult World of Jack Parsons
1919 C. J. Woodworth was a major individual during the period of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. He wrote the commentary on Revelation in the 1917 book The Finished Mystery. made him editor of The Golden Age magazine (later called Consolation) from its inaugural edition in 1919 to 1946. "I came directly under the influence of evil spirits, so much so that for three days I was as completely under demonical control as was Mrs. Eddy when she wrote "Science and Health." (Thirteenth Souvenir Convention Report, p. 274. C. J. Woodworth:The Demon Possessed Editor of The Golden Age
1921 Feb. 2, The Golden Age even pointed out that apparently "honest" demons, speaking through mediums or Ouija Boards, were saying that in discovering Radium, mankind was getting close to the "secret" of life. The fact that "lying spirits" as they called them said this didn’t raise any red flags because, they said, "even liars will sometimes tell the truth." (C.J. Woodworth, "Radium–Earths Most Valuable Substance", The Golden Age, Feb. 2, 1921, p. 260.) The Watchtower Society and Medical Quackery
1922 This was proved in a court of law. The founders of both "faiths", the Mormons and JW's were of the Illuminati bloodline. Charles Taze Russell, who founded the Watchtower Society (JW's), was of the Illuminati Russell bloodline, which also founded the infamous Skull and Bones Society at Yale University. Charles Taze Russell was a Satanist, a pedophile according to his wife, and a friend of the Rothschild's. Indeed it was the Rothschild's who funded the Jehovah's Witness operation into being, along with other Illuminati bankers, through "contributions" by organizations like the Rothschild-controlled B'nai B'rith. One of the key people involved in this was Frank Goldman who later became President of B'nai B'rith. Why would an organization set up (in theory) to help Jewish people and promote the Jewish faith, be funding into existence the Jehovah's Witnesses? I think the name Rothschild answers the question. Russell was also a high degree Freemason and Knights Templar. He promoted Zionism, another Rothschild creation, on behalf of his friends and backers. WAS HITLER A ROTHSCHILD?
1923 Johannes Greber. In 1923, Greber, a Roman Catholic priest, became interested in communication with spirit beings. These spirits often spoke through his wife, a spirit medium, and told him the Bible was full of errors. The Bible clearly forbids all contact with demons professing to bring messages from God. Knowing this, the Society has even attempted to hinder research about Greber by informing inquirers writing them in 1981, that they do not know where his new Testament can be obtained.3 Yet, we have a copy of an official Watchtower letter sent to the Greber Foundation dated December 20, 1980 thanking them for sending their New Testament and a book entitled COMMUNICATION WITH THE SPIRIT WORLD OF GOD. The Watchtower Society first began quoting Greber's translation on John 1:1 in 1962. To show the depths of their deception and that they knew what they were doing, we find that six years earlier, in the 1956 Watchtower, page 111, the Society mentions Greber and warns readers against his demon-inspired translation! WHO IS JOHANNES GREBER?
1924 July 30. Russell recommended his followers read the book, Angels and Women. He personally supervised its editing and said it was beneficial because it throws light on certain Biblical subjects. The problem with Angels and Women is it was dictated by a "fallen angel" (demon) to a woman spirit medium. (Angels and Women. A revision of the unique novel Seola. By Mrs. J.G.Smith. Pub. By A.B.ABAC Company New York) angels2.gif Second Watchtower president Joseph Rutherford concurred with Russell's advise, because he advertised it in his magazine, Golden Age (Enochian Magick term) recommending it and offering a discount to Golden Age readers. angels1.gif
1925 Rutherford's Armageddon prediction fails.
1925 When nothing supernatural happened in 1925, the Watchtower Society lost three quarters of its members. A Short History of Jehovah's Witnesses
1929 July 24, It is generally believed that the curse which Noah pronounced upon Canaan was the origin of the black race. Certain it is that when Noah said, "Cursed be Canaan, a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren," he pictured the future of the Colored race. They have been and are a race of servants, but now in the dawn of the twentieth century, we are all coming to see this matter of service in its true light and to find that the only real joy in life is in serving others; not bossing them. There is no servant in the world as good as a good Colored servant, and the joy that he gets from rendering faithful service is one of the purest joys there is in the world. (The Golden Age, July 24, 1929, p. 702) Blacks and the Watchtower
1929 The Society built a mansion ("Beth Sarim") to house the resurrected prophets, who were expected to arrive soon. The new definition of "generation" promised momentous events during the 1940's.
1930 The Watchtower Society, which claimed to be creationists at this time, and taught that all humans descended from Adam and Eve; making all races brothers; would seem to eschew any eugenics thinking. Creationists in general were then openly opposed to eugenics, and many atheistic evolutionists were generally supportive. Yet, the fact that the Watchtower delved into eugenics and at one time evidently supported the movement is a striking commentary on both their scientific and scriptural naiveté. For example, an article published in The Golden Age authored by a Mr. MacArthur, the secretary of The American Eugenics Society, was written at the Watchtower's request. The Watchtower expected that this article would meet "with hearty approval by many of our readers." It begins by noting that many social problems exist; and in spite of laudatory efforts to alleviate these, "we do not seem to be making very marked progress." The solution, the author concludes, is not because we are at the end of the system of things, an answer one might expect from a Watchtower publication, but because "modern science has put into our hands [the] means of preventing much of this suffering. The study of human heredity reveals the possibility of... eugenics, the science which deals with the conscious direction of human existence" The author concludes that we can take a lesson from domestic animals and the fact that "blood tells." All we have to do is identify the "families cursed with a hereditary of shiftlessness, lack of foresight, and indifference to the rights of others" and then do something (such as forced sterilization) to prevent these families from producing a "horde of inferior human beings" (Anonymous. 1930. "Sterilization of the Unfit." The Golden Age, November 12, p. 116) The Watchtower, Quack Science and Homicide * The Population Control Agenda
1930 False Prophet: The Society again explains how "...to know whether one is a true or a false prophet.... If he is a true prophet, his message will come to pass exactly as prophesied. If he is a false prophet, his prophecy will fail to come to pass" (Watch Tower, May 15, 1930, p. 154). http://www.watchman.org/jw/1404-2.htm External Link
1931 Feb. 4, In addition to diseases, vaccinations were responsible for the spread of "demonism" and sexual immorality! (The Golden Age, Feb. 4, 1931, p. 293.) The Watchtower Society and Medical Quackery
1934 September 26. The Journal of the American Medical Association is the vilest sheet that passes the United States mail.... Nothing new and useful in therapeutics escapes its unqualified condemnation. Its attacks are generally ad homonym. Its editorial columns are largely devoted to character assassination.... Its editor [Morris Fishbein] is of the type of Jew that crucified Jesus Christ. (The Golden Age, September 26, 1934, p. 807)
1935 The Seventh Day Adventist Church expelled a Bulgarian immigrant named Victor Houteff, who had begun teaching his own views on certain passages of the Revelation or Apocalypse, the last book of the Bible. Houteff set up shop on the property at Waco. After first referring to his tiny new sect as The Shepherd's Rod, Houteff and his people in 1942 incorporated and renamed themselves Davidian Seventh Day Adventists. Houteff died in 1955, and in 1961 his wife Florence officially disbanded the sect, but a few followers under the leadership of west Texas businessman Benjamin Roden took over the real estate. Roden died in 1978, leaving behind his wife Lois and his son George to lead the group. Then, in 1987, David Koresh took over the leadership position, and the tragedy that followed is public knowledge. A Short History of the Watchtower Organization
1939 - 1945 The present government of Germany has declared emphatically against Big Business oppressors and in opposition to the wrongful religious influence in the political affairs of the nation. Such is exactly our position: Instead of being against the principles advocated by the government of Germany, we stand squarely for such principles and point out that Jehovah God through Christ Jesus will bring about the full realization of these principles. Joseph Franklin Rutherford (Watchtower and Bible Tract Society) Sleeping with the Enemy: Watchtower Style
Furthermore, the "Erklärung" clearly states that Jehovah's Witnesses supported the aims of the Third Reich.
1939 - 1945 I had the privilege of traveling with Brother Albert Wandres from Wiesbaden to Berlin...But we were shocked when we arrived at the Tennis Hall (the Watchtower's Magdeburg Headquarters) the next morning...When we entered, we found the Hall bedecked with Swastika flags! When the meeting started, it was preluded by a song which we had not sung for years...the notes were (taken from) the melody of 'Deutschland, Deutschland, uber alles'! These notes were the melody for the German National Anthem! Ibid. [Konrad Franke's Testimony] p. 50 (Penton reported that Franke died as a Witness in good standing. See the Watchtower, 11/1/83, p.31) Sleeping with the Enemy: Watchtower Style
1939-1962 Felix Frankfurter, Associate Justice Supreme Court of the U.S. Unknown Mason Status. Nominated by Mason President Franklin D. Roosevelt. Felix Franfurter was a well-known friend of Joseph Kennedy, (John F. Kennedy's father), and Charles Taze Russell, founder of the Watchtower and Bible Tract Society, known as the Jehovah's Witnesses. A well known case for Felix was West Virginia State Board of Education vs. Barnette (1943), (Joseph Rutherford is in charge of the Witnesses at this time) which the court declared unconstitutional a state requirement that school children, including Jehovah's Witnesses, salute the U.S. flag.
Things Rutherford would currently be Disfellowshipped for: Signing his own books, beer parties at Bethel, aggravating everyone in sight. Watchtower Presidential Era Summaries External Link
1942 Nathan Knorr assumes control of The Watchtower And Bible Tract Society. "I was just one of many "new-boys" who had arrived to work. I soon learned that the only reason Knorr would know anyone by name was if they were in trouble. Knorr was a cold businessman with little personality and little regard for other people's problems. He had little patience and ruled with an iron fist. Most Bethel staff members were terrified of him." FREDERICK WILLIAM FRANZ
1942 The Watchtower completely reverse's their stand on Eugenics. Partly because it became clear that, determining who should be sterilized or prevented from interbreeding was very difficult (Consolation, Oct. 28, 1942:12). They even admitted that the Nazi techniques were "very much like the breeding and raising of livestock" (p. 12) and likely were appalled at this degradation of humans. When the Nazis began to sterilize women who had every imaginable problem; even color blindness. The Watchtower finally realized how anti-Biblical the philosophy advocated by many eugenicists was. They then realized that "demons, not men," pursued policies that they themselves once approved of! (Consolation, Oct. 28, 1942:13). The Watchtower, Quack Science and Homicide
1945 When nothing supernatural had happened by 1945, the Society extended the meaning of "generation" to 80 years (the maximum lifespan of a typical man, as explained in Psalms 90:10). "Beth Sarim" was eventually sold.
1952 November 15, How do Watchtower leaders feel about ex-members who expose the Society? "We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of our fleshly family relationship could be exterminated for apostasy from God and his theocratic organization . . . "Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God's law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates . . ." The Watchtower November 15, 1952 page 703
1953-1961 Dwight D. Eisenhower, 34th. President of the United States (R) Unknown Mason Status. Was also a member of the Anti-American organization known as the Council of Foreign Relations (CFR) Was also a member of the all-male ultra-exclusive Bohemian Club to which every Republican President since Herbert Hoover has belonged. Secret Societies Bohemian Club Also grew up as a Jehovah's Witness. Vice President Richard M. Nixon 1953-1961. Unknown Mason status. 1953-1961 President Eisenhower’s Special Advisor for Cold War Strategy was Nelson Rockefeller. Confirmed Illuminati. * (The Old Boys- The American Elite & The Origins of the CIA by Burton Hersh. On page 41) U.S. Presidents And the Masonic Power Structure
1953 The doctrine about God residing on the star Alcyone and Pleiades was discarded. Astrology and the Watchtower Society
1954 January 15, The Watchtower (page 38). In an article entitled "Do You Respect Plagiarists?" The Watchtower accuses a New York minister of the Churches of Christ named Antonio Ochoa of plagiarizing articles in The Watchtower and Awake! And published them in the Churches of Christ paper Gospel Broadcast. "WHAT do you think of a man that lifts articles from one magazine and has them published in another magazine? What do you think when he attaches his name as author of the stolen articles? What do you think of him when he continues to do it after he has been caught and has promised to quit? And does the fact that he claims to be a minister of religion shock you still more? (January 15, 1954 The Watchtower (page 38). Are they guilty of this crime also? Similar Styles? External Link
1965 N. H. Knorr, the third President of the Watchtower, had wanted to print a Bible dictionary, later known and published as the Aid To Bible Understanding. Originally Raymond Franz, the nephew of Fred Franz (fourth WT president) was assigned to accumulate data for this work. Later, it was necessary to add four more men to this project, making a committee of five. Two of these, Ray Franz and Lyman Swingle, later became members of the Governing Body. Edward Dunlap, registrar for the Gilead School, also researched material for this project. In his book Crisis of Conscience (p. 20-27) Raymond Franz tells of the research he undertook regarding the dating system, which is based upon the cornerstone of 1914 as being the end of the "Gentiles Times," a period supposedly running for 2520 years since 607 BC. Franz tells of how he sent his personal secretary (Charles Ploeger) to visit the New York City libraries to try and substantiate this date for the destruction of Jerusalem. No such evidence was forthcoming. Instead, the date 587-586 BC was reinforced. Later, in 1977, a Swedish Witness elder sent a great deal of documentation based upon the cuneiform tablets (over 10,000) found in the Mesopotamian area that dated back to the time of ancient Babylon, which tablets substantiated, not 607 BC, but 20 years later as the destruction of Jerusalem. As Mr. Franz states in his book, "Much of the time and space (under the Aid book heading of `Chronology') was spent in trying to weaken the credibility of the archeological and historical evidence that would make erroneous our 607 BC date and give a different starting point for our calculations and therefore an ending date different from 1914." Franz and his secretary even took a trip to Brown University in Rhode Island to interview Prof. Abraham Sachs, a specialist in ancient cuneiform texts, in an attempt to find a weakness or flaw in the historical evidence. Not one possibility existed of such evidence being erroneous. Yet, Franz felt obligated to write the article in the Aid book without revealing all of the facts, as the rest of the Governing Body refused to reconsider the matter. Watchtower: The Critical Years
1966 Although 1914 plus 80 equals 1994, in 1966 the Watchtower Society decided that the year 1975 was "significant", because they had calculated that it marked the end of six thousand years since the creation of Adam and Eve. Watchtower publications strongly hinted that "the end" would come in 1975.
1975 Armageddon prediction fails.
1975 When nothing supernatural happened in 1975, the Watchtower Society lost many members. It explained that the time between Adam's creation and Eve's creation was not known, so the 1975 date was only speculative.
Mid-70's, Some members of the Watchtower began to question their dating system, notably their "Gentile Times" calculations. The trouble began when a handful of men were commissioned to write the book Aid To Bible Understanding, a dictionary of Bible terms for the Witnesses. In researching their chronological dating system for the "last days," historical research proved without a doubt that their foundational date of 1914 (supposedly the invisible return of Christ) was nothing more than the start of World War I. This date had been arrived at through a series of unrelated calculations, counting 2520 years from the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 BC to the year AD 1914. But the clock-stopper was this: According to all historical records, Jerusalem was destroyed in 587-586 BC, a full 20 years later than the Witness date. Neither was there found any basis in the Bible for a 2520-year "Gentile Times." Russell's dates and concepts had been relied upon with inaccurate history as a foundation. A shock wave within the organization was inevitable. No matter how tight the security, sooner or later it would leak out. The-'trickle' began in the '70s, and the "dam" broke in 1980. Watchtower: The Critical Years
1975 "Jehovah's Witnesses have nothing in common with other religious groups and can never seek any affiliation with them." {AWAKE Nov 22 1975} [In 1980, the State of California informed Jimmy Swaggart Ministries that tax was due for religious books and tapes sold in the state since 1974. The case was appealed to the United States Supreme Court. On June 22, 1989, the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society filed an 'amicus curiae' (friend of the court) brief on behalf of Jimmy Swaggart Ministries (No. 88-1374 in the Supreme Court of the United States, October Term, 1988). Comprehensive List of False Dates Set by the Watchtower * Jehovah's Witnesses and Jimmy Swaggart
1977 Fred Franz, assumes control of The Watchtower and Bible Tract Society. (Jehovah's Witnesses) who later perjured himself under oath in Scotland in a court trial, by saying he could read Hebrew, and then failing a simple Hebrew test. What New Converts don't know about their own Organization
Later, I became a part of a group that met with Franz on Wednesday nights, listening to him pontificate. We would discuss the "daily text," a scripture passage. I will never forget his voice as he stretched out the syllables, "Brooother Blizaaaaard, what comment do you have on this text." I would try my best to interpret it. Once, I asked the wrong question and drew a violent response. Jehovah's Witnesses are taught that Jehovah God himself deals directly only with a group known as "the remnant" and that other Jehovah's Witnesses must deal with Him through the Watchtower Society. The arrangement puzzled me. I asked: "Brother Franz, since the Watchtower Society in Brooklyn is the only outlet for God to speak through, by way of the printed materials and so forth, how would someone of the 'remnant' get information from God to other Witnesses? I mean ... how would an older sister, say, way out in the country, for example, give Spiritual food from Jehovah to others?" Franz's face turned red and he replied: "How? ... How? ... By supporting what is printed in the Watchtower, that's how!" With that, he went to his room. End of discussion. I believe Franz's reaction was demonic.
Note: Natheer Salih was supposedly Fred Franz's bodyguard and helper, but all communications to WT President Fred Franz had to go through 6'2" Natheer Salih, who would supposedly ask Franz and then would come back with an answer. Apparently Salih may be from an Iraqi Jewish bloodline. He wears big rings and has expensive tastes. Salih was the channel through whom the Illuminati could pass their decisions for the WT onto the Governing Body and Bethel staff. Illuminati control the Jehovah's Witnesses. The Russell Bloodline
Cecil Rhodes set up the Rhodes Scholarships to recruit and bring top men from several nations to Oxford to be initiated into the Illuminati and to learn about how to bring in a One-World-Government, So the initial selection into the Rhodes program--1st degree of the Illuminati.- is equivalent to the initiation into the Skull & Bones. the astor bloodline Fred Franz was was in line for the Rhodes Scholarship.
Things Franz would currently be Disfellowshipped for: Listening to secret motivational cassette tapes that he never let out of his sight. Otherwise, he was too smart to be dis-fellowshipped. Besides, he invented dis-fellowshipping. Watchtower Presidential Era Summaries External Link
What you can get Disfellowshipped for:
1.No longer claiming to be called a brother/sister.
2. Independent study and discussion of the Bible that brings Watchtower doctrine into question.
3. Possession of literature written by former members.
4. Having lunch with a former member, even if the former member professes to be a Christian and was not Disfellowshipped for fornication, greed, idolatry, reviling, drunkenness, or extortion.
5. Attending a service of any other church or religious organization.
6. Authorizing a blood transfusion, even to save the life of a child.
7. Numerous other actions not mentioned in scripture, but deemed by the congregation elders to be "unclean conduct," or "conduct unbecoming" of a Jehovah's Witness. "Conduct" in this case covers a broad range of actions not clearly defined by the Society, leaving discernment about what is not acceptable to the discretion of the congregation's elders. As a result, standards by which people may be Disfellowshipped are inconsistent throughout this religion which claims "unity" to be one of their identifying characteristics. SHUNNING
What they haven't Disfellowshipped for:
1. Promiscuity became a problem once women were admitted to Bethel. But "heterosexual offenses have never been the serious problem that homosexual ones have been," Penton states. "In fact, [former Watch Tower leader Nathan Knorr], who seems to have had a fixation on sexual sins, kept the matter of homosexuality and masturbation so constantly before workers at the Watch Tower headquarters that one is forced to wonder if he did not have homosexual tendencies himself." If so, it might explain why he seemed to protect Percy Chapman, the alleged one-time lover of GB member Leo Greenlees. In 1959, under hint of homosexual scandal, Knorr went to Canada to replace Chapman, who was the Canadian Branch overseer.
2. According to Larry D., a gay Toronto former JW, "Percy ... was totally anti-marriage and he made sure that none of the "Bethel boys" even contemplated the subject ...." Larry described the Bethel boys of the 1950s. "They were all young and handsome, hand-picked by Percy Chapman; there was even an elite group known as 'Percy's boys' who would accompany him to expensive restaurants and bars ... at the time, Bethel was on Irwin Avenue in the center of the gay district of Toronto. There was even a Kingdom Hall above 'The Parkside,' one of Toronto's few gay bars in the fifties and sixties."
3. Regardless of his dubious relationship with Chapman, Greenlees became Treasurer of WTB&TS and one of the Governing Body. According to Larry, "He managed to escape the witch hunt at Brooklyn Bethel in the early seventies when dozens of Bethel boys were Disfellowshipped after learning of their midnight trysts in the sauna in Brooklyn Bethel." Jehovah's Witnesses speak out: Part 2
1979 [Of those living at the time of Armageddon, only Jehovah's Witnesses will be saved] {WT Feb 15 1979 30} Comprehensive List of False Dates Set by the Watchtower
1980 The Society suggested that the Witnesses and the publishing staff had been overly enthusiastic about the "possibility" of Armageddon in 1975. This failed to lure back thousands who had left, but regular door-to-door preaching restored the rapid growth the Witnesses had enjoyed since the "significance" of 1975 had been announced.
1983 Feb. 1st. Pg. 17 of a Watchtower magazine, The Society is caught using subliminal pictures in its artwork portraying the Egyptian god Zeus. JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES AND THE TOWER OF DARKNESS
Here is a demon hidden in Christ's hair. You can live forever on paradise on Earth. Pg. 17. JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES AND THE TOWER OF DARKNESS
Demonic image at democratic debate
Parents would be surprised what is slipped into cartoons. In Disney’s "The Little Mermaid" the castles are male sexual organs. In one cartoon Mighty Mouse is shown without comment clearly snorting cocaine. (Since Russell and Disney are connected through The Disney_bloodline and both were Freemasons. I thought it appropriate to mention The Watchtower and Disney's connections at an attempt of mind manipulation through hidden images.) Walt Disney Studios Chairman Joe Roth is in charge of Walt Disney as well as subsidiaries Touchtone, Miramax, and Hollywood Pictures, which were all created to camouflage the Disney production of adult films. Roth oversaw Disney’s subsidiary Hollywood Pictures’ Evita film. Evita has as its main start "Material Girl" Madonna. Madonna is in reality a mind-controlled slave who has appeared in numerous underground porn/& ritual porn movies. This author (of the Disney Bloodline) has an underground catalog from a porn business that has recently changed its location of business. The catalog offered a film of Madonna performing an actual blood sacrifice.
Found on a French Christian web site dedicated to Jehovah's Witnesses a new subliminal picture in their new book about the 'Prophetie of Isaia' on page 34 in the French version.
http://www.freeminds.org/aftrhour/subliminal_image.htm


See the eagle and the skull?
1988 The constellations of the Zodiac are presently considered by the The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, known as the Jehovah's Witnesses as being of pagan origin. (Insight on the Scriptures Volume 2 (1988) p. 1240) The same was regarded in 1914 as of Divine origin with each of the 12 Zodiacal signs having numerous correspondences with the Bible. Astrology and the Watchtower Society.
1989 June 22, the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society filed an 'amicus curiae' (friend of the court) brief on behalf of Jimmy Swaggart Ministries (No. 88-1374 in the Supreme Court of the United States, October Term, 1988). Comprehensive List of False Dates Set by the Watchtower // Jehovah's Witnesses and Jimmy Swaggart
1992 Milton G. Henschel assumes control of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. (Upgraded from vice to President at the death of Fred Franz.)
1994 Arrives (1914 plus 80 years), nothing supernatural happened. The Society had not ascribed any special significance to 1994, but the "generation" issue was becoming awkward. The ranks of the Society's special members (the 144,000 who were "anointed", based on an interpretation of Revelation) were dying out. The claim that Jesus had appointed the Watchtower Society special status in 1918 was becoming hard to defend.
1995 The Watchtower Society decided that "generation" did not mean a physical generation (i.e. 80 years) but meant, "age", as in "era". This extended the "end times" indefinitely, although when the last of the 144,000 special members die out, the Society will have to be run by regular members.
1996 Friday, 30th August . Religion, censorship and the Internet form a potent combination that is at the heart of a David and Goliath struggle which broke out this week. In the Goliath corner is the huge multi-national corporation, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, Inc with sales of over a billion dollars a year through their vast door-to-door distribution system by gullible Jehovah's Witnesses, and on the other side, the Watchtower Observer, a Website run as a personal crusade by Norwegian small business-man, Kent Steinhaug. The content of Kent's site contains similar information listed at this site. Last year, a campaign by Internet-enabled Jehovah's Witnesses, attempted to close down the site. Nano, the Norwegian Internet provider, stood by its crusader; and likewise unmoved was the other focus of the campaign, the famous anon.penet.fi anonymous electronic mail site in Finland. This year, it is corporate lawyers sending paper threats, rather than sect members making email strikes. The focus of this attack is a secret book, "Pay Attention to Yourselves and the Needs of the Flock" published by the Watchtower Society, and distributed only amongst the sect's senior ministers ("elders"), with strict instructions not to reveal its contents to ordinary members. "Pay Attention to Yourselves and the Needs of the Flock"
1997 "Of course a Christian's first priorities are spiritual matters, such as reading the Bible daily and getting well acquainted with priceless Scriptural truths discussed in the Watchtower and Awake! magazines and other publications of the The Watchtower Society. Everlasting benefits come, not from surfing the Internet, but from using your time to take in knowledge of the only true God and of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to apply it zealously" (July 22, 1997, p. 13). Page 13 of course. http://www.watchman.org/jw/1404-2.htm
E.W. Bullinger writes:
"As to the significance of thirteen, all are aware that it has come down to us as a number of ill-omen. Many superstitions cluster around it, and various explanations are current concerning them.
"Unfortunately, those who go backwards to find a reason seldom go back far enough. The popular explanations do not, so far as we are aware, go further back than the Apostles. But we must go back to the first occurrence of the number thirteen in order to discover the key to its significance. It occurs first in Gen. xiv. 4, where we read 'Twelve years they served Chedorlaomer, and the thirteenth year they REBELLED.'
"Hence every occurrence of the number thirteen, and likewise of every multiple of it, stamps that with which it stands in connection with rebellion, apostasy, defection, corruption, disintegration, revolution, or some kindred idea." (Bullinger, E.W. Number in Scripture , Kregel Publications, (c)1967, p. 205).
1997 In a bold move aimed at suppressing dissident Jehovah's Witnesses; the Watchtower Society's New York headquarters has filed charges with the police against ex-members Kent Steinhaug and Jan Haugland of Norway. Steinhaug reported for questioning to the police station in Skien, his home town, on the morning of March 4, 1997 Watchtower Takes Legal Action Against Ex-Members
1998 March. Representatives of the Jehovah's Witness organization made a formal legal agreement with the government of Bulgaria that the JW's would be able to choose their own stance on the blood issue without any disfellowshipping from the Watchtower and then reneges on Human rights blood agreement. January-March 1999 - pages 2-3
1998 May. The French government hit the Watchtower Society's branch with a bill for 300 million francs back taxes, penalties and interest (roughly $50 million). This was followed in June by a lien on the Society's properties in France. Why? Because the French government classifies the organization as a "dangerous cult" rather than a recognized religion. As a punitive measure, officials imposed a 60% tax on moneys received. October-December 1998 - page 2
1998 September 10-12, Official Watchtower representatives share the speaker's platform with Moonies, New Agers, occult groups, vampire sects, and others at the CESNUR conference (the Center for Studies on New Religions) in Torino, Italy. October-December 1998 - page 5
Another part of a puzzle that was solved was how by way of common genealogy the Watchtower Organization and David Koresh have a lot more in common than most would care to think. Both groups have the same parent and that "parent" was William Miller. Unfortunately the Watchtower in an attempt to distance itself from William Miller only mentions him in its Proclaimers book only a scant 3 times. KORESH AND THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY


"The men of Sodom WILL be resurrected" -- WT, p. 8, July, 1879.
"The men of Sodom will NOT be resurrected" -- WT, p. 338, June 1, 1952.
"The men of Sodom WILL be resurrected" -- WT, p. 479, August 1, 1965.
"The men of Sodom will NOT be resurrected" -- WT, p. 31, June 1, 1988.
If this isn't enough to make you run, what will?


Jehovah Witnesses Watchtower Symbols
From Bruno - France. From David Icke's symbols archive. http://www.davidicke.net/symbolism/menu.html


Jehovah Witnesses Watchtower Symbols
From Bruno - France. From David Icke's symbols archive. http://www.davidicke.net/symbolism/menu.html


Jehovah Witnesses Watchtower Symbols
From Bruno - France. From David Icke's symbols archive. http://www.davidicke.net/symbolism/menu.html


Jehovah Witnesses Watchtower Symbols
From Bruno - France. From David Icke's symbolism archives http://www.davidicke.net/symbolism/menu.html
The Below seals are from Seals of The Watchtower
Let's take a look on the official seals of the Company Watchtower. We have a representation of it to the right. That to the left was created by Charles Taze Russell in 1884. That of right-hand side was adopted in 1956 with president Nathan Knorr ruling the Watchtower Society, and replaced the precedent definitively.


Original Seals (above)
Replaced Masonic Seals Below
 Click on Masonic seals for larger view.


The above seals are 100% Masonic. All one needs to do is research the Masons and you will see this symbolism on everything they touch.

In Conclusion.
Let's apply the Watchtower history to Moses, or Noah, and . If Moses told his people every year that God was going to deliver them from bondage and Moses got them all the way to the only to have Pharaoh slaughter them. How many of Gods people would listen to Moses each and every time God didn't come through with his promise. None. How about Noah. What if Noah built an ark every time God told him he was going to flood the Earth and then God didn't deliver? Let's apply the Watchtower history to . What if Lot told and Gomorra every year that God was going to destroy them and it didn't come about year after year. These men would have told God to take a hike. I will not be your fool anymore, as each JW should tell WTBS to do. But God did deliver each and every time he gave these men his word. The bible is full of God coming through to his promise. So what does all this mean? Simple. God has nothing to do with the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. He has not come through for them one time in over 200 years of false predictions. This means God didn't tell the Watchtower that the battle of Armageddon was going to happen each and every wrong forecast foretold by WTBS. The WTBS instead, have made fools out of the JW's. God does not make fools, or false prophets out of his followers. He didn't Moses, or Noah, or , did he. Nor does God appreciate the WTBS trying to make a fool out of him, which is exactly what the WTBS has tried to do. The WTBS is not Gods chosen organization. The WTBS instead have made any and all teachings out of the JW's mouth's false doctrines and invalid. Dead and void.
 If it doesn't come true as it was predicted, then it wasn't from God . Its that simple.
 to know whether one is a true or a false prophet.... If he is a true prophet, his message will come to pass exactly as prophesied. If he is a false prophet, his prophecy will fail to come to pass" (Watch Tower, May 15, 1930, p. 154).
The W Files: Over 800 links exposing the Watchtower world wide.
Back To Pt: 1
Copyright © 1999-2001 by Robert Howard. All rights reserved.
see also: JW Secret Book
 
LDH
LDH 10 years ago

"No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a LUCIFERIAN Initiation." (David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations)

Let's start at the top.
There is no "Planetary Inititiave" of the United Nations.
The only place this quote can be contributed to David Spangler is on Conspiracy Theory websites.
Please cite me a credible source for this quote.
Lisa
 
greendawn
greendawn 10 years ago

So enlightened 1, to help us out what do you think are the most convincing evidences that Russell was a free mason? To me it's pretty obvious that he was one.
 
Lady Lee
Lady Lee 10 years ago

I have removed your duplicate thread
 
stevenyc
stevenyc 10 years ago

Without doubt, he was involved in 'the great conspirisy'. Even his name was changed to Charles Taze Russell, and his orginal birth certificate altered.
Proof can be seen in his 'given' name. For it is an anagram of: 'A RECTAL SELLERS SHUZ'
A conisidence? I think not! As these other anagrams prove; A RECTAL RESELLS SHUZ, A RECTAL SELLS RE SHUZ, A SCARLET SELL RE SHUZ, A CARTEL SELLERS SHUZ, A CARTEL RESELLS SHUZ, and A CARTEL SELLS RE SHUZ.
Also, it prophisied Rutherfords takeover with the anagrams; A CLARET SELLERS SHUZ,
A CLARET RESELLS SHUZ, and A CLARET SELLS RE SHUZ.
How much more proof do we need!
steve
 
Leolaia
Leolaia 10 years ago

LDH....Looks like Spangler's group is an NGO. Here is the group's website:
"The Findhorn Foundation is the educational and organisational cornerstone of the Findhorn Community, and its work is based on the values of planetary service, co-creation with nature and attunement to the divinity within all beings. We believe that humanity is engaged in an evolutionary expansion of consciousness, and seek to develop new ways of living infused with spiritual values. We have no formal creed or doctrine. We recognise and honour all the world's major religions as the many paths to knowing our own inner divinity..... In 1970 a young American spiritual teacher named David Spangler arrived in the community and with his partner Myrtle Glines helped to define and organise the spiritual education processes that have been a central pillar of the Findhorn Community ever since. A curriculum was established and the work of the ‘University of Light’ began. David and Myrtle lived in the community for three years, during which Findhorn Press published many of David's visionary writings.... In 1997 the Foundation was recognised as an official United Nations Non-Governmental Organisation and has since participated in UN events such as Earth Summit and Habitat 2..."
http://www.findhorn.org/about_us/display_new.php
 
sinamongurl
sinamongurl 10 years ago

Russell himself has been linked to a Satanic bloodline and was operating with key figures whose agenda has been a The Satanic Bloodlines That would explain a thread a read about a year ago about a brother who visited the societys headquarters in the 80s sometime who was taken to a secret room that was heavily secured and was shown many books that had satanic symbols on them and so forth....he was given the explanation that the society has come along way...in essence, "the light has gotten brighter" since these books....i, myself have always wondered about that stuff....if anyone knows anything more about this particular thread, let me know....
 
JW_Researcher
JW_Researcher 10 years ago

Enlightened1,
 You wrote:

from the Watchtowers own printed material, which at one time the Watchtower ordered to be turned in by its members.
Do you have the citation for that?
 Please and thank you.
 JWR
 
LittleToe
LittleToe 10 years ago

I'm going to take a different tack, this thread:
Since it's clear that the JWs have nothing to do with the Freemasons today, what is the relevance?
 
Kenneson
Kenneson 10 years ago

LT,
I think they call it "beating a dead horse."
 
LDH
LDH 10 years ago

Leo,
I had seen that site when I googled his name yesterday. However, it promotes respect of ALL religions, and I didn't see any shred of this Lucifarian quote. Also, searching the UN website doesn't tell me of Planetary Initiative.
Of course, it's a Top Secret Project, that's prol'ly why it wasn't mentioned.
LDH
 
james_woods
james_woods 10 years ago

Is there such a thing as a website like the JWD except for ex-and-fading Masons where people who have an abiding interest in Masonic Criticism could go? Betcha the masons would be absolutely horrified to know if the JWs were tied to them, too!
Seems like since hardly any of us here could care less about FreeMasonry today - these threads are getting lost on us. And for use in reasoning with the JW trolls or actives, how are they going to read through and reason on this kind of stuff?
They can't even get the UN connection. In short, I agree with LittleToe; I don't want to read any more conspiricy from Russel's day -
But I will listen to solid and consice proof if they still have ties today; just as with the NGO thing.
And IMHO - it works for me better if I can see it all in one or two scrolled panes - not 50 or so.
James - 33rd degree. I now use my apron out by the barbeque.
 
Leolaia
Leolaia 10 years ago

LDH....I agree that such webpages do a lousy job of documenting their quotes, and anyone citing them as "evidence" must do a "better job" and show that they are legit. Last year Ianone posted some anti-Semitic material on the Talmud with purported quotes of passages from it, and I similarly queried him about it since some of the quoted tractates do not apparently exist and only appear on the web in versions of the very same post he posted here.
As for David Spangler, there is a fairly balanced page on him in Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Spangler) with a bibliography, and it appears that his mystical philosophy is indeed a branch of Luciferianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luciferianism), which construes Lucifer in a quasi-Promethean and neo-Gnostic sense as the "light-bearer", i.e. the source of knowledge and light for man. The following is supposed to be a quote from one of Spangler's books, in which Spangler seems to espouse a similar view:
"When man entered upon the pathway of self, he entered into a great creative adventure in which he took on the responsibility of a microcosmic world unto whom he is god. The being that helps man to reach this point is Lucifer. That is his role. He is the angel of man’s evolution. He is the angel of man’s inner light. Lucifer is the spirit of light in the microcosmic world. Lucifer is the embodiment of that energy. He is the embodiment of all those qualities which builds up the self: pride, selfishness, awareness of identity, love of self. Lucifer was just what his name implies - the bringer of light. It is important to see that Lucifer, as I am using this term, describes an angel, a being, a great and mighty planetary consciousness" (David Spangler, Reflections on the Christ, 1977, pp. 37-38; cited [here])
He also says: "Christ is the same force as Lucifer but moving in seemingly the opposite direction. Lucifer moves in to create the light within through the pressure of experience. Christ moves out to release the light, that wisdom" (p. 40). Of course, these quotes have to verified with the original book, but they seem to be pretty representative of Luciferian philosophy. So it does look like Spangler does talk about Lucifer, but in an abstract positivist sense. On p. 45, Spangler supposedly writes: "Lucifer comes to give us the final gift of wholeness. If we accept it then he is free and we are free. That is the Luciferic initiation. It is the one that many people now, and in the days ahead, will be facing, for it is an initiation into the New Age". This comes very close to the purported quote:
"No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a LUCIFERIAN Initiation." (David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations)
Perhaps the purported quote comes from the same book, but there are a few important differences that cast some doubt. Spangler wrote of a "Luciferic initiation" rather than "Luciferian initiation" on p. 45, so it is not clear if he used both expressions. I'm not also clear if Spangler speaks in terms of "worshipping Lucifer". So the quote may have been "massaged" and it is suspicious that in its many appearances on the web, I have not seen one proper citation.
 
Boxed elder bugs
Boxed elder bugs 10 years ago

Well for many on this board the devil is in the details. If you accept the Bible translation of Lucifer as not the Devil Satan but as an Angel that brings light, then Spangler is stating that we accept this light, a far cry from worshipping the Devil. But if he is saying that we should worship Lucifer even if he is just an Angel of light why would we worship such an Angel? At least not in any Christian belief system that I am aware of, and there are alot that I am not.
 
mustang
mustang 10 years ago

I'm going to take a different tack, this thread:


Since it's clear that the JWs have nothing to do with the Freemasons today, what is the relevance?


 Ditto: TO WHAT END?


I run into these assertions all the time. It floored me at first, having "grown up in the truth".
It didn't help that a local businessman that my father studied with went on to become a Deacon in one of the local Baptist churches and then the local grand high poobah of the Masons. He was always arguing with my father and pointing out that our eLDER So & So drove around with the bed of his pickup truck practically filled with his empty beer cans.
Ironically, it turned out that this Masonic church Deacon treated me like one of his sons and was more of a listening ear to my problems than my own JW father.
Well, I digress; but the point is, if the Masons pulled off this great coup, nobody seems to have noticed and I reiterate:
TO WHAT END?
Mustang
 
heathen
heathen 10 years ago

Just earmarking the thread. Very interesting Ianone .....oops I mean Enlightened one LOL
 
LDH
LDH 10 years ago

Leo,
I'm not disagreeing that the man is a Lucifarian. He has a right to his religion or lack thereof as long as it does not harm others.
Anyone can google or wikipedia ~~
So it does look like Spangler does talk about Lucifer, but in an abstract positivist sense
What my question was, please attribute the quote to him that I highlighted in my original post!
The entire treatise falls apart when the first 'point' that's made can't be proven.
That's what I was saying.
It's like if someone said," LDH is a married female with two kids who believes cat shit makes for a tasty dinner! "
One part of the statement may ring true but that doesn't mean that the entire statement is accurate.....
Lisa
 
catbert
catbert 10 years ago

http://www.cephasministry.com/jw_was_russell_a_mason.html

 A quote from Russell:
 "Although I have never been a Mason, I have heard that in Masonry they have something which very closely illustrates all of this".

 and:

 "Our Masonic friends have it down very fine. I do not know where they got it so well. I have often wondered where they found out so many of the secrets of our High and Accepted Order of Masonry. From the time you come in to be a member of the Royal Priesthood, a living stone, a member of the craft of Masonry, from the Lord's standpoint,.. if any man will be a living stone in the Temple, if any man will be a member of his High, Free and Accepted Masonry - let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me."

 Not sure of the credentials of www.cephasministry.com, but reading this article, I would say Russell felt above the Masons as far as "Enlightenment" was concerned.
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
slimboyfat
Why does the Watchtower leadership slap its own defenders in the face?
by slimboyfat 4 months ago
yadda yadda 2
Newly released New World Translation still full of numerous errors and abuses
by yadda yadda 2 2 years ago
StopTheTears
How to stump the atheists
by StopTheTears 4 years ago
sabastious
Prometheus Breakdown (WARNING movie spoiled)
by sabastious 4 years ago
Rabbit
500 Hundred Alien Planets -- Wow !
by Rabbit 5 years ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/114156/re-russells-connection-masons-secret-societies





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Watchtower deception regarding the TRINITY
/  





 

Watchtower deception regarding the TRINITY
by jwfacts 8 years ago 33 Replies latest a year ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20
jwfacts
jwfacts 8 years ago

I have finally finished an article outlining the deceptive way in which the Watchtower presents its anti-trinitarian information. Any constructive criticism such as regarding errors that may have crept in is welcome. Since I cannot embed a page I hope entering the html code works, otherwise it can be read at http://jwfacts.com/index_files/trinity.htm

Trinity
This section does not propose to solve a 2000-year debate on the nature of God, but rather show the inaccurate and misleading methods the Watchtower uses to support its teaching.
 Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe that God is a Trinity and use this as indication that they alone worship truth. The Watchtower presents that there is the Witnesses correct understanding of God, and Christendom's pagan view.
"Christendom's unchristian doctrine of a Trinity of "God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Ghost" will be rejected by all enlightened mankind as being a blasphemous pagan lie." Paradise restored to Mankind - By Theocracy p.388 This us-and-then attitude fails to recognise the number of groups that share the Watchtower's Arian concept of God. Furthermore, a large portion of Christendom is not Trinitarian, but Modalist.
When claiming other Christians believe in a Trinity, the Watchtower fails to acknowledge that a large number of Christians believe in Modalism. The Watchtower CD 2006, containing 56 years of Watchtower publications, does not contain a single discussion on Modalism. It mentions the word only once in passing, yet Modalism is accepted by hundreds of millions of Christians, such as Pentecostals.
When presenting the Trinity doctrine, the Watchtower melds Trinitarian and Modal concepts, creating an inconsistent and confusing teaching that does not accurately define any formal position. A "straw man" argument defines person's point of view inaccurately, and then attacks the misrepresentation. The Watchtower does this by defining the Trinity inaccurately and inadequately. By failing to recognise these different teachings and mixing doctrines, the Watchtower misrepresents the Trinity, making it difficult for a Witness to form an informed opinion.
Inaccurate Trinity Statements
At times, the Watchtower defines that the Trinity as three gods in one. This is not the Trinity; Trinitarians do not believe that there are three Gods in one, accepting the statement at Deuteronomy 6:4, "Jehovah our God is one Jehovah." There is one true God by nature. That true God exists as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The Watchtower attempts to prove that Jesus is not equal to the Father, without explanation of what equal means. As early as the Apostolic Fathers, distinction was made between the positional and essential relationships of the Godhead - the Ontological and Economic deity of Christ. Jesus is second in manner of existence, in position, but not in nature. Ontologically the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the same essential nature - economically they are not.
To illustrate, a king holds a higher economic position than his subjects do, however, this does not make his essential worth as a human greater, so ontologically a king and his subjects are the same. The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1912, Vol. 15, p 47-49 explains:
"In point of fact the doctrine of the Incarnation involves that, in regard of His Human Nature, the Son should be less than the Father." Accurate discussion of the Trinity cannot occur without separation of the Ontological and Economic elements, yet the Watchtower never mentions these concepts.



Trinity
The Trinity doctrine maintains:
1.There is only one God - Jehovah or Yahweh.
2.The Father is God
3.Jesus the Son is God
4.The Holy Spirit is God
5.The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct Persons
It is by proving each of the above 5 statements from the Bible that a Trinitarian comes to their understanding of the nature of God. This is the belief taught by most Catholic and Protestant religions.
Modalism
More accurately termed Modalistic Monarchianism, this is the notion that there is one unique God that manifests Himself in three different modes or stages. God appeared initially as the Father in the Old Testament and the Son in the four Gospels. Whilst appearing as the Son he ceased to exist as the Father. At Pentecost God began to move as the Spirit, and is therefore no longer either the Father or the Son.
Arianism
The Watchtower description of God most closely aligns to Arianism, after Arius (c. AD 250-336) who famously promoted this view during the fourth century. This denies the eternality and the absolute Deity of Jesus. Jesus is described as a creation and as such temporal. Some Arianists, such as Jehovah's Witnesses believe in Jesus as an inferior deity. As such, until 1954 the Watchtower taught that Jesus was to be prayed to and worshipped.
Sources Misquoted
When quoting, the meaning of the original quote should be apparent, even when using ellipses (…). A classic source of misquotes is the Watchtower publication Should You Believe in the Trinity? (ti), using ellipses to hide words like "but", "however", "therefore" to present a completely different point from that being made by the source. Furthermore, provision of only partial references to the source of quotes make it difficult and time consuming to locate the original quote. Examples of misquotes follow.
Source of quote Trinity Brochure Full Quote
Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethic, James Hastings, Trinity, p.461 "At first the Christian faith was not Trinitarian . . . It was not so in the apostolic and sub-apostolic ages, as reflected in the N[ew] T[estament] and other early Christian writings."-Encyclopædia of Religion and Ethics. (ti pp. 6-7) "At first the Christian faith was not Trinitarian in the strictly ontological reference." 
The Triune God, Edward Fortman "Jesuit Fortman states: "The New Testament writers . . . give us no formal or formulated doctrine of the Trinity, no explicit teaching that in one God there are three co-equal divine persons. . . . Nowhere do we find any trinitarian doctrine of three distinct subjects of divine life and activity in the same Godhead."" (ti p.6) "They give us no formal or formulated doctrine of the Trinity, no explicit teaching that in one God there are three co-equal divine persons. But they do give us an elemental trinitarianism, the data from which such a formal doctrine of the Triune God may be formulated." 
The Encyclopedia Americana "The Encyclopedia Americana notes that the doctrine of the Trinity is considered to be 'beyond the grasp of human reason." (ti p.4) "It is held that although the doctrine is beyond the grasp of human reason, it is, like many of the formulations of physical science, not contrary to reason, and may be apprehended (though it may not be comprehended) by the human mind". 
The Catholic Encyclopedia (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm 21/12/2006) "The Catholic Encyclopedia also comments: "In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together. The word ????? [tri´as] (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A. D. 180. . . . Shortly afterwards it appears in its Latin form of trinitas in Tertullian."" (ti p.5) "The word [tri'as] (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A. D. 180. He speaks of "the Trinity of God [the Father], His Word and His Wisdom" ("Ad. Autol.", 11, 15, P. G., VI, 1078). The term may, of course, have been in use before his time. Shortly afterwards it appears in its Latin form of trinitas in Tertullian." 
Encyclopedia of the Holy Trinity The Catholic work Trinitas-A Theological Encyclopedia of the Holy Trinity, for example, notes that some of Tertullian's words were later used by others to describe the Trinity. Then it cautions: "But hasty conclusions cannot be drawn from usage, for he does not apply the words to Trinitarian theology." (ti pp.5-6)  "The great African fashioned the Latin language of the Trinity, and many of his words and phrases remained permanently in use: the words Trinitas and persona, the formulas 'one substance in three persons,' 'God from God, light from Light.' He uses the word substantia 400 times, as he uses consubstantialis and consubstantivus, but hasty conclusions cannot be drawn from usage, for he does not apply the words to Trinitarian theology"
New Catholic Encyclopedia - p.306  "And the New Catholic Encyclopedia also says: "And the doctrine of the Holy Trinity is not taught in the O[ld] T[estament]."" (ti p.6) "The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is not taught in the OT. … In many places of the OT however, expressions are used in which some of the Fathers of the Church saw references or foreshadowings of the Trinity." 
Origin and Evolution of Religion  "Yale University professor E. Washburn Hopkins affirmed: "To Jesus and Paul the doctrine of the trinity was apparently unknown; . . . they say nothing about it."-Origin and Evolution of Religion." (ti p.6) "The beginning of the doctrine of the Trinity appears already in John (c.100 AD.") To Jesus and Paul the doctrine of the trinity was apparently unknown; at any rate they say nothing about it." 

 A favourite quote in regular use in Watchtower publications is:
""The formulation 'one God in three Persons' was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the fourth century. . . . Among the apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective." -New Catholic Encyclopedia." Should You Believe in the Trinity? p.7 This quote is from New Catholic Encyclopedia p.299 (1967, Volume XIV). The inaccuracy of the context can be seen when continuing to read on page 300:
"If it is clear on the one side that the dogma of the Trinity in the stricter sense of the word was a late arrival, product of three centuries' reflection and debate, it is just as clear on the opposite side that confession of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - and hence an elemental Trinitarianism - went back to the period of Christian origins"
History of the Trinity
The Watchtower misconstrue development of the Trinity when giving the impression it was not believed by early Christians, but introduced centuries later by Constantine.
"Another fabrication, concocted centuries later, is the doctrine of the so-called holy Trinity…" Watchtower 2006 Dec 1 p.6
"Also, whereas several Eastern churches were inclined to follow Arius, who denied the Trinity doctrine, Rome quickly adopted this pagan idea of a triune god. On both of these matters, Emperor Constantine came out in favor of Rome. This he did by making a Sunday observance law in 321 C.E. and by imposing the Trinity at the Council of Nicaea in 325 C.E. He fused apostate Christianity with the pagan Roman cult and made this "universal" or "catholic" form of worship the state religion." Watchtower 1983 Sep 15 pp.7-8 The Trinity brochure inaccurately presents the ante-Nicene Fathers as somehow in agreement with the Watchtower belief on the deity of Christ.
"THE ante-Nicene Fathers were acknowledged to have been leading religious teachers in the early centuries after Christ's birth. What they taught is of interest.
Justin Martyr, who died about 165 C.E., called the prehuman Jesus a created angel who is "other than the God who made all things." He said that Jesus was inferior to God and "never did anything except what the Creator . . . willed him to do and say."
Irenaeus, who died about 200 C.E., said that the prehuman Jesus had a separate existence from God and was inferior to him. He showed that Jesus is not equal to the "One true and only God," who is "supreme over all, and besides whom there is no other."
Clement of Alexandria, who died about 215 C.E., called God "the uncreated and imperishable and only true God." He said that the Son "is next to the only omnipotent Father" but not equal to him.
Tertullian, who died about 230 C.E., taught the supremacy of God. He observed: "The Father is different from the Son (another), as he is greater; as he who begets is different from him who is begotten; he who sends, different from him who is sent." He also said: "There was a time when the Son was not. . . . Before all things, God was alone."
Hippolytus, who died about 235 C.E., said that God is "the one God, the first and the only One, the Maker and Lord of all," who "had nothing co-eval [of equal age] with him . . . But he was One, alone by himself; who, willing it, called into being what had no being before," such as the created prehuman Jesus.
Origen, who died about 250 C.E., said that "the Father and Son are two substances . . . two things as to their essence," and that "compared with the Father, [the Son] is a very small light."
… Thus, the testimony of the Bible and of history makes clear that the Trinity was unknown throughout Biblical times and for several centuries thereafter." Should You Believe in the Trinity? p.7 This passage is strongly misleading. After reading the following quotes from the Ante-Nicene Fathers, it is quite clear early Christians taught Jesus was everlasting and God. The word Trinity and its formulation was in development at least from the 2nd century, not the 4th century under Constantine.



Quotes from the Ante Nicene Fathers [1]
Mathetes - 130 AD  "the holy and incomprehensible Word … the very Creator and Fashioner of all things. … As a king sends his son, who is also a king, so sent He Him; as God He sent Him; as to men He sent Him; as a Savior He sent Him… the immortal One for them that are mortal" Epistle of Mathetes to Diognetus,ANTE Vol.1 pp.63,65 
Polycarp of Smyrna, a student of the Apostle John - 150 AD  "Wherefore also I praise Thee [the ever-truthful God] for all things, I bless Thee, I glorify Thee, along with the everlasting and heavenly Jesus Christ, Thy beloved Son, with whom, to Thee, and the Holy Ghost, be glory both now and to all coming ages. Amen" - Epistle of the church at Smyrna Ch.14 ANTE Vol 1 p.92 
Justin Martyr - 150 AD  "… we reasonably worship Him, having learned that He is the Son of the true God Himself, and holding Him in the second place, and the prophetic Spirit in the third, we will prove. For they proclaim our madness to consist in this, that we give to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all; for they do not discern the mystery that is herein, to which, as we make it plain to you, we pray you to give heed." First Apology Ch. 13 ANTE Vol 1 p.309
"… nor to know that the Father of the universe has a Son, who also, being the first-begotten Word of God, is even God. And of old He appeared in the shape of fire and in the likeness of an angel to Moses and to the other prophets; but now in the times of your reign, having, as we before said, become Man by a virgin, according to the counsel of the Father, for the salvation of those who believe on Him, He endured both to be set at nought and to suffer, that by dying and rising again He might conquer death. And that which was said out of the bush to Moses, "I am that I am, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, and the God of your fathers," this signified that they, even though dead, are let in existence, and are men belonging to Christ Himself." - First Apology ch. 63 ANTE Vol 1 p.352 
Tatian the Syrian - 170 AD  "We do not act as fools, O Greeks, nor utter idle tales, when we announce that God was born in the form of a man." - Address to the Greeks, ch. 21 ANTE Vol 2 p.149 
Melito of Sardis - 160 - 177 AD  "The activities of Christ after his baptism, and especially his miracles, gave indication and assurance to the world of the deity hidden in his flesh. Being God and likewise perfect man, he gave positive indications of his two natures: of his deity, by the miracles during the three years following after his baptism, of his humanity, in the thirty years which came before his baptism, during which, by reason of his condition according to the flesh, he concealed the signs of his deity, although he was the true God existing before the ages." Anastasius of Sinai's The Guide 13 
Irenaeus, student of Polycarp - 180 AD  "The connection of Father and Son, of Son and the Paraclete [Holy Spirit] makes three who cohere in a dependent series. And these three are one thing; not one person." - Against Praxeas ch.25
"The Son of God is identical with God. The Spirit of God is God." - Against Praxeas ch.26
"For the one and the same Spirit of God, who proclaimed by the prophets what and of what sort the advent of the Lord should be, did by these elders give a just interpretation of what had been truly prophesied; and He did Himself, by the apostles, announce that the fullness of the times of the adoption had arrived, that the kingdom of heaven had drawn nigh, and that He was dwelling within those that believe on Him who was born Emmanuel of the Virgin." Against Heresies ch.21 ANTE Vol.1 p.933 
Clement of Alexandria - 190 AD  "I understand nothing else than the Holy Trinity to be meant; for the third is the Holy Spirit, and the Son is the second, by whom all things were made according to the will of the Father." - Stromata, Book V ch. 14 ANTE Vol.2 p.970 

The following contradictory quotes give a good indication of the quality of Watchtower information on this subject.
"However, this is no proof in itself that Tertullian taught the Trinity." Should You Believe in the Trinity? p.5
"As Tertullian erroneously sought to prove the divinity of Jesus by means of another theory, he coined the formula "one substance in three persons." Using this concept, he attempted to show that God, his Son, and the holy spirit were three distinct persons existing in one divine substance. Tertullian thus became the first to apply the Latin form of the word "trinity" to the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit." Watchtower 2002 May 15 p.31
Support for Trinity
Exodus 20:2-3 commands:
"I am Jehovah your God, who have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slaves. You must not have any other gods against my face." Development of the Trinity arose due to a concept that the Watchtower has struggled with: that Jesus is described in the New Testament as God. Until 1954, Jehovah's Witnesses worshipped Jehovah and worshipped Jesus; as such, were Polytheistic.
Early Christians grappled with this concept because the Bible describes Jesus as a god worthy of prayer and worship, our everlasting creator. Rather than take the polytheistic approach of individually worshipping Father and Son, early Christians described these two entities as being of the same Nature as part of a single God. The Scriptural support for this is:

Jesus is referred to as God
John 20:28-29 "In answer Thomas said to him: "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him: "Because you have seen me have you believed? Happy are those who do not see and yet believe.""
Isaiah 9:6 - "For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace."
John 1:1 "In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."
Jesus is our creator
Isaiah 42:5 "This is what the [true] God, Jehovah, has said, the Creator of the heavens and the Grand One stretching them out; the One laying out the earth and its produce, the One giving breath to the people on it, and spirit to those walking in it:"
John 1:2-4 "This one was in [the] beginning with God. All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. What has come into existence by means of him was life, and the life was the light of men.
Jesus is to be worshipped
Hebrews 1:6 "And let all God's angels do obeisance to (proskune? worship) him (Jesus)."
Most Bibles translate the Greek word proskune? as worshipped. Despite the New World Translation translating this word as worship when in reference to angels, humans or Jehovah, it inconsistently changes to obeisance when referring to Jesus.
Jesus was prayed to
Acts 7:59 "And they went on casting stones at Stephen as he made appeal and said: "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."
Unlike most translations, the New World Translation uses the word "appeal" instead of "prayer". However, the footnote to New World Translation, 1950 edition, states "footnote b: "invocation; prayer"", and by context Stephen was praying to Jesus.
Jesus is everlasting
Micah 5:2 "And you, O Beth´le·hem Eph´ra·thah, the one too little to get to be among the thousands of Judah, from you there will come out to me the one who is to become ruler in Israel, whose origin is from early times, from the days of time indefinite."
1 John 1:2 "yes, the life was made manifest, and we have seen and are bearing witness and reporting to YOU the everlasting life which was with the Father and was made manifest to us,…"
Jesus is worthy of the same honor as the Father
John 5:23 "In order that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He that does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him."
John 5:23 is considered one of the strongest statements that Jesus is God by commentaries such as Burton, Coughman's and John Calvin, because of the implication that honor should be to the same degree. This corresponds to the preceeding verse in John 5:18 that "On this account, indeed, the Jews began seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath but he was also calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God."
Old Testament Scriptures referring to the Father are quoted as referring to Jesus
The Stone of stumbling
Isaiah 8:13, 14. "The LORD Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy, he is the one you are to fear, he is the one you are to dread, and he will be a sanctuary; but for both houses of Israel he will be a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall."
1 Peter 2:6-8. "For in Scripture it says: 'See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.' Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, 'The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone,' and 'A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.'"
(See also Isaiah 45:22-24 - Philippians 2:9-11 "every knee should bend" and Isaiah 40:3 - Matthew 3:1-3 "Prepare the way")
Old Testament Scriptures identify Jehovah as the only Savior, a role the New Testament bestows upon Jesus
Isaiah 43:11 "I-I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior."
Titus 2:13-3:6 "…manifestation of the great God and of [the] Savior of us, Christ Jesus, … However, when the kindness and the love for man on the part of our Savior, God, was manifested, … This [spirit] he poured out richly upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior…." (Note the New World Translation inclusion of [the] to change the meaning of this passage.) The above passages indicate Jesus' followers worshiped Jesus as God, believing him to be the same as Jehovah of the Old Testament. On the other hand, there is clear distinction between the role of Father and Son in the New Testament. The way to resolve this Mono/Polytheistic quandary was for Ante Nicene Fathers to say that God was represented by the differing roles of Father and Son.
The third person of God is not as clear as the duality of the Father and Son. This is based on Scripture that:
Identify the Holy Spirit as a person
Group the three persons together
The Personality of the Holy Spirit is determined because "he" does things that only a person can do. The Holy Spirit:
◦speaks Acts 13:2
◦has an "Ego" - I Acts 10:19-20
◦thinks Acts 15:28
◦shows emotions such as love Romans 15:30
◦has intellect and teaches Hebrews 9:8, John 14:26, 1 Corinthians 2:13, Nehemiah 9:20
◦has a will 1 Corinthians 12:11
The Watchtower Society identifies Satan as a person by showing he does things that only a person can do: speak and think. (Awake! 1973 Dec 8 p.27 "Satan the Devil-Personification or a Person?"). Most Christian religions determine the Holy Spirit to be a person by using this same methodology. For this reason, religions that do not accept the Trinity or the personhood of the Holy Spirit, such as Christadelphians and Christian Scientists, commonly also do not believe that Satan is a person. The Watchtower takes an unusual stance of believing Satan is literal, but that the Holy Spirit is not.
Grouping of the Father, Son and Spirit is at Matthew 3:16-17, Mark 1:10-11, Luke 1:35, Luke 3:22, Romans 15:30, Hebrews 9:14, Titus 3:4-7, 1 John 5:5-6. An example of this grouping is 2 Corinthians 13:14:
"The undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the sharing in the holy spirit be with all of You." A key Trinitarian text is Matthew 28:19 as it groups the three, indicates the Holy Spirit is a person with a name and uses the singular 'name' rather than plural 'names', indicating the three share the same name Jehovah.
Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit," Paul does not separate pneumatology from Christology and uses the Spirit of God interchangeably with the Spirit of the Son.
Galatians 4:6 "Now because YOU are sons, God has sent forth the spirit of his Son into our hearts and it cries out: "Abba, Father!""
Watchtower History
In early Christian history Adoptionists, Ebionites, Gnostics, Marcionites and Arians rejected the Trinity. It was the third century dispute with Arius that particularly led to doctrinal clarification of the Trinity through the Nicene and Athanasian Creeds. In the 1200's, several religions started promoting Arianism and then faded out of existence, most prominently the Cathars. Since the seventeenth century, several Protestant groups reignited the issue and the following are some of the groups that in current times do not accept Modalism or the Trinity:
◦Bible Students
◦Christadelphians
◦Christian Science
◦Iglesia ni Cristo
◦Jehovah's Witnesses
◦Mormons
◦Russelites
◦Some Seventh Day Adventist groups
◦United Church of Christ
◦United Church of God
◦Denominations that split from Worldwide Church of God
Russell's Adventist influences had mixed views about the Trinity. At first, Russell's associates and early influential Watch Tower contributors were primarily Trinitarian, including Nelson Barbour and John Paton. George Storrs believed that Jesus was God, but believed that the relationship of the Father and the Son was a mystery, and would not characterize his belief as either Arian or Trinitarian.
In Three Worlds, and the Harvest of this World, p.58, published 1877 by N. H. Barbour and C. T. Russell, Christadelphians were criticised for not accepting the Holy Spirit as a person.
"I will give a sample of their way of reasoning: The words Satan, and Devil, says the above book, means accuser, or adversary; and are only Bible synonyms for sin.… And if they really set about it, as the Christadelphians do, they can explain away the Holy Spirit." The first assistant editor of Zion's Watch Tower was J. H. Paton, a Trinitarian. He wrote the 1880 Watchtower book The Day Dawn. Page 225 personifies the Holy Spirit, capitalising the word [2] and referring to the Holy Spirit as He, Him, or a Person and interchanges the Holy Spirit with the Spirit of Christ.
"The work of the Holy Spirit is one of the most important elements in the plan of revelation and salvation. He is always spoken of by the Saviour as a Person, and is called the "Spirit of truth."…
He inspired men to write or speak the truth; and second, He enables men to understand it. …
By comparing this with 1 Pet. 1:11, it will be seen that the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ are used interchangeably." Russell did not start printing articles disputing the Trinity until after Paton left the magazine's staff.
Influential anti-trinitarians include former Baptist Minister Henry Grew from the 1820's and George Stetson, pastor of the Allegheny Advent Christian Church, from whom it appears Russell based his eventual stance. The Watchtower first promoted its Arian viewpoint in the Watchtower 1882 Jun p.369-377. Proclaimers p.123 seems to refer to this article when writing:
"As Brother Russell and his associates studied the Scriptures, it did not take them long to see that the God portrayed in the Bible is not the god of Christendom." The Nature of God was further discussed in the 5th volume of Studies in the Scriptures from 1899. However, Russell's views were at odds with current Watchtower viewpoint, as he taught that Jesus should be worshipped and prayed to.
During the 20th century the Seventh-day Adventists, Adventist Christian Church and the Worldwide Church of God have all changed their official stance on the Nature of God and started to accept the Trinity. In each case, splinter groups broke off remaining against the Trinity.
The Nature of God is not the black-and-white case that the Watchtower attempts to present. From the first century, Church leaders grappled to understand the relationship between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. There has been a 2,000-year debate over the details of the nature of God because the Bible does not present a clear explanation of the Son's relationship with the Father, and there are inherent difficulties with both Arianism and Trinitarianism.
The Watchtower's lack of honesty and transperancy regarding the Nature of God should be of concern to Jehovah's Witnesses. Indication of an issue with Watchtower theology is highlighted by the:
◦changes and cover up of the worship of Jesus
◦manipulation to the New World Translation to falsely include the word Jehovah in the New Testament
◦inaccurate and deceptive discussion of the Trinity within Watchtower publications.
A human cannot hope to understand the reality of the Nature of God; spiritual beings are beyond the comprehension of physical beings. The closest a fleshly being can come to understanding the spiritual realm, a realm unknown to daily reality or scientific understanding, is through the approximations of antropomorphological statements. For this reason, any description of God is merely a vague humanised likeness. As the reality of God is an unsolvable mystery, incomprehensible until we see him "face to face", it is foolish to judge others with marginally different points of view.


Footnotes
1. Ante Nicene quotes in this section are from The Ante-Nicene Fathers Edited by A. Roberts and J Donaldson as appears on SAGE Software CD, Albany, Oregon © 1996
2. Whereas Holy Spirit is commonly spelt with capitals to indicate a person, the Watchotwer no longer use capitals for holy spirit.

•megsmomma
megsmomma

Wow....very good information. I just want you to know that I personally LOVE your web-site and it has helped me so much in realizing what I was told to believe (in many cases I didn't even know what "we" as JW's believed and were taught) and what the Bible actually says. Thank you so much for all your hard work.
Megsmom

PS As far as the trinity is concerned, it was the moment I realized I MAY believe in it and the Bible does speak of that whole concept that I felt totally free from the watchtower hold...it was amazing to feel that...like a switch went off.
 
•jwfacts
jwfacts

Thanks Megsmom.
I had a similar experience. When I first left, the Trinity was the one doctrine I thought I would never be able to accept. I used to pride myself on being an expert at proving Trinitarians wrong. So it came as a huge shock to start to research outside of Watchtower magazines and learn that I did not even understand what the Trinity doctrine was. Next I stumbled across the deceptive way the Watchtower quotes and then found out that the word Jehovah never appears in the New Testament. It was when I found out that 50 years ago Witnesses used to worship Jesus that it just clicked for me.
Other religions have thought long, hard and sincerely about the subject and have a legitimate reason for what they believe.
 
•Satanus
Satanus

Very good. You could say that the wt is the master of straw man arguing.
S
 
•Leolaia
Leolaia

Good sketch of the misuse of sources by the Society. This was for me the foremost issue that led me to leave the JWs -- the dishonesty. I remember well when the Trinity brochure came out in 1989. I started going to college in 1988 and the first thing I did was immerse myself in the religious section of the library and read all the different books of the church fathers, Bible commentaries (Bultmann was one of the first I read), the great work by JND Kelly on early Christian christological and theological debates, and related literature, and realized that the matter was far more complex than presented by the Society. For instance, some regarded by the Society as heroes fighting against the "great apostasy" (e.g. opponents of gnosticism) referred to Jesus as God even though they did not have a systematic doctrine of the Trinity yet, and that prior to the Nicene Trinity there were earlier notions of a trinity that responded to other christological controversies (such as modalism). And I realized that many of the arguments cited by the Society seem to misunderstand aspects of the doctrine (e.g. believing that Jesus is God does not entail a belief in a specific doctrine of the Trinity, believing in almost any Trinity belief other than modalism necessarily recognizes that the Son is separate from the Father). When I received the brochure, I saw immediately that it was dishonest and felt incensed. I then proceeded to prepare a document that presented relevant quotes from the church fathers on many different aspects of their theology to show how they really differed from each other, in case I ever had to explain why I refused to use that publication. I felt really put on the spot when the time came for it to be used in the book study, especially the night in which the misrepresentations of the church fathers would be discussed. I knew I could not just sit there and say nothing, and hear people regurgitate these distortions (wanting to say something like, "But didn't you know that Tertullian fully believed that Jesus was God, and that he had an early version of a trinity doctrine?"), so I stayed home that night. Anyway, that was a big step for me to realize that the Society was not scholarly as I had thought, and later reading (such as the excellent earthquake chapter of "Sign of the Last Days -- When?", or my research on the cross) only found many other examples of this.
 
•JosephMalik
JosephMalik

JW facts,
It makes no difference if the WTS has been deceptive or not on the subject of the Trinity. It only matters if the Trinity is taught in scripture. It does matter the way words like Lord, God, Spirit are used and their real meaning or application which when studied do not support a Trinity. It is the kingdom message and not Trinitarianism that disciples are admonished to preach anyway. Lu 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God. See Beyond Trinitarianism at http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/
Joseph
 
•XJW4EVR
XJW4EVR

JWFacts,
Great post! It was this very issue, the deceptiveness of the WT, and their deliberate misrepresentations of the Trinity that prompted me to begin questioning everything else that they taught as Scriptural.
 
•cabasilas
cabasilas

Very informative information, JWFacts! Thanks for posting this.
As for me, this was a subject that greatly impacted me when I was leaving the JWs. I found the booklet entitled "Jesus of Nazareth--Who is He?" very helpful. It's written with JWs in mind, but does not mention them by name. For those interested, it can be downloaded from this filesharing site:
http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=c0e9150ef050a4ecb28705e3578c3a7e
 
•Pahpa
Pahpa

I just wonder how important doctrine is when it comes to Christian belief. We are told clearly in Scriptures that we will be judged by our "deeds" not doctrine. Trinitarians and unitarians can line up various Bible verses and quote from the "Church Fathers" to promote their views. In the past, trinitartians and unitarians (Arians) killed each other over this one particular doctrine. In doing so, they violated the basic Christian teaching about love.
Jesus used the best parable: The Good Samaritan. In it, he illustrated how those who had "the truth" of that time (the priest and Levite) lacked the human compassion to help one in great need. It was the Samaritan who responded even though he was despised by the Jews for his apostate beliefs and his false religious practices. Yet, Jesus clearly illustrated who the "good neighbor" was....not those possessing "the truth" but the one who showed compassion and mercy. It's a great lesson for everyone today.
 
•reniaa
reniaa

you talk of modalist but their belief on God, son and holy ghost just doesn't make sense as it says that none of them exists at the same time, so jesus is just miming to himself in conversation to God.
It looks more they have generalised to much but since catholism form of trinitarian teaching is still the major form belief it's understandable.
you talk to any average person on the street and ask what trinity or god is and they will just say 3 in 1, not many people go into the depths of belief and all its variables as us, for a basic reader of everage understanding it puts a very simple statement of trinity.
 
•reniaa
reniaa

also you put this discussion is on trinity but include there use of jehovahs name, technically they just copied kingjames official bible which was one of first to put jehovahs name back after jews removed it.
Is something right because at some time in the past men decided a name shouldn't be spoken? i guess we are lucky christians didn't decide jesus's name was to sacred to say ^^ or we might be having scripture saying 'lord says to lord i am your lord and my name is lord and you should love lord your lord with your whole lord.
sometimes is isn't just a matter of over analising but also of common sense on what to believe.
 
•Jringe01
Jringe01

John 5:23 is considered one of the strongest statements that Jesus is God by commentaries such as Burton, Coughman's and John Calvin, because of the implication that honor should be to the same degree. This corresponds to the preceeding verse in John 5:18 that "On this account, indeed, the Jews began seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath but he was also calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God."
This only proves that is what the Jews thought he was doing, not that he was actually doing it.
If There is a Trinity then answer these questions:
God told Moses that "No man may see me and yet live" yet how many thousands saw Jesus and DID live??? If Jesus was God of the OT then that would imply he transformed himself into a lesser being in order to walk the earth for how else could you contain all that power, energy, knowledge and greatness that is God? No being who has power, knowledge, education and stature is willingly going to make him or her self into a person with less power, knowledge, education and stature
So Jesus was praying to himself in the garden?
The bible also says that no structure of man could contain God...yet Jesus was contained within many many man made structures in his time. How could something as small and puny as a house be expected to contain the greatness of God? It cannot
Jesus died and went to hell for 3 days...no human has the ability to kill God or any god unless we ourselves have created them. If Jesus is God then you are saying that humans killed their creator. If that's the case then how can he be a true god?
I don't for one minute believe that there is a Trinity. Certainly the Jews (and Muslims for that matter) don't believe in it, and didn't at the time either. I accept the arguement that if the early Christians were refering to a trinity type arrangement that it would have been a lot harder to attract Jews to it because it's not an obvious extention of their religion which is what Chirstianity is supposed to be...the final result of the Jewish religion, the end of the path.
 
•Dogpatch
Dogpatch

I'm impressed!
Randy
 
•JosephMalik
JosephMalik

I just wonder how important doctrine is when it comes to Christian belief.
Pahpa,
Good question. We were not instructed to teach it anywhere were we? It is not a central theme for our ministry. And you are correct in saying that our deeds matter. This is a truth for everyone to take seriously, Christian or not, it is the basis for entry into the Kingdom we preach. Yet there are some very hard verses more general like the ones in Jude that frankly scare the pants off me if they should every be applied. The doctrine is therefore important as all doctrine intended for our enlightenment is. But it is also a distraction since preaching the Kingdom is our primary task and few even know what this Kingdom is, how it will function, where it will be, how anyone gains entry into it and what they will do in it.
Joseph
 
•yknot
yknot

Paul your presentation of the textual dishonesty is well presented.
I even learn a new word!
 
•Doug Mason
Doug Mason

The best way to defend a poor position is to attack, which is exactly what the WTS does. The WTS does not explain its own "theology" (used in its proper sense) but they attack others.
What are their essential attributes of deity? What is their description of Jesus' preincarnate "nature"? Did he lose that nature when he became human? Did he revert to his prior nature following his resurrection? In what way are the attributes of Jesus' "a god" nature less than that of the father's? How can a son's nature be different from that of his father's? (A human father has a human child.)
Jesus Christ self-possesses eternal life, meaning the essential life of the Eternal One. The only way we can share in eternal life is to be "in the Son", because that Life is in the Son, who is true God.
God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. … W e are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. 1 John 5:9-12, 20, NIV)
The WTS appears to define their theology in terms of power and position, whereas the Trinitarian defines "god" in terms of quality and in the essential attributes of nature (divine, angelic, human and animal).
Doug
 
•insearchoftruth
insearchoftruth

That is such a true statement about the WT trying to defend himself by attacking others.....if the only way one tries to make oneself look good is by making negative statements about others, how good are they really.
 
•jwfacts
jwfacts

Some interesting comments.
I had doubts for a long time, but as with Leo, it was the dishonesty I found when researching the Trinity and Earthquakes that made me finally make the stand that I just cannot bear to enter a Kingdom Hall again and appear to support such beliefs.
Pahpa, I have come to think that doctrine is not important. Nowhere does the Bible contain clear outlines of doctrine. The most destructive religions are those where the leaders attempt to claim they have some special ability to decode the hidden doctrine of the Bible and so must be followed without question.
Reniaa, I have found that most people do not know the intricacies of the Trinity, nor do they care. I was explaining the Witness stance once to my boss and he said, but they (father/son/spirit) are different, and they are the same. That is the great wonder of God. That is why I no longer think it matters how people understand God. The Bible is certainly not clear about the relationship of Father and Son, and we as humans have no logical ability to understand the spirit dimension at any rate. So to me tolerance of others understanding is more important.
Regarding the word Jehovah - you seem to have missed the point. The word Jehovah appears in the Old Testament, but never appeared in the New Testament. By dishonesly inserting the word Jehovah into the New Testament the NWT makes it very difficult to grasp the meaning the writers were attempting to convey.
Jringe01, I was quite upfront at the beginning of the document that my intention was not to support one teaching over the other, but rather to highlight Watchtower tactics. There are difficult questions for each point of view - that is why there is ongoing debate on the subject. Maybe you could answer the question on how the Apostles could regard Jesus as G(g)od and not be breaking the law to have no other god other than Jehovah.
If you are uncomfortable with the Trinity doctrine that is your right and I respect that. But either way, I won't be promoting an organisation that uses underhanded methods to deceive its followers.
 
•Mary
Mary

While I do not believe in the doctrine of the Trinity, I found the material presented above very well researched and presented. It, unfortunately, is yet another example of the WTS taking things out of context to fit whatever doctrine they're trying to promote. I just finished reading: Jehovah's Witnesses, Blood and the Tort of Misrepresentation and they did the same damn thing there.
 
•smiddy
smiddy

Very interesting,....just another example of wtb&ts deception of what trinitarians ( and others) actually beleive....Yet this subject and comments raised ,highlights to me the complexity of the bible itself. I was taught that the bible was meant for the "average" person,it was not that hard to understand..,and it interpreted itself, Nothing is more further from the truth.Does not the bible say "Do not put your trust in earthling man whom no salvation belongs?"Ps.146:3 Yet to understand the bible`s intricasies,ambiguities,double-tripple-whammie-meanings,we have to rely on "man" to explain to us what the God of the bible,who is the supreme intelligence of the universe and creator of all ,couldn`t dictate (to a man) in plain english(hebrew-aramaic or Koine) what he simply meant.I`ll gaurantee that the average jw would not have a clue about the differences in trinitararian beleifs.
smiddy
 

«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20


 
Share this topic






Related Topics




Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/164343/watchtower-deception-regarding-trinity




Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Watchtower deception regarding the TRINITY
/  





 

Watchtower deception regarding the TRINITY
by jwfacts 8 years ago 33 Replies latest a year ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20
Doug Mason
Doug Mason 8 years ago

It DOES matter if the WTS/GB is dishonest! If dishonesty does not matter, then how may the WTS point a finger at any other belief system?
If they are so blatantly dishonest when they cite others, such as on the nature of God, Blood, Chronology, etc., etc., then how do they behave when they are operating in areas that are subjective and exegetical?
My understanding of the nature of God can be downloaded at: http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=5f4ded73fd6f5748dfc1b0526faa6c1b
(When you go to that site, you have to wait for about 25 seconds before the "download now" button appearsa at the bottom of the page.)
Doug
 
Pahpa
Pahpa 8 years ago

JM/JWFACTS
The Bible wasn't written as a definitive text book on doctrine. Therefore, people can pick and choose various texts out of the Bible to "prove" their own personal preferences. Each person is left with his own opinion of what is right and wrong. As you noted, the one clear message a Christian is encouraged to promulgate is God's Kingdom. And the Bible is quite precise in defining the Christian way of life. Someone once said that the most important teaching in the Bible is love. And all else is only commentary.
Pahpa
 
Jringe01
Jringe01 8 years ago




Jringe01, I was quite upfront at the beginning of the document that my intention was not to support one teaching over the other, but rather to highlight Watchtower tactics. There are difficult questions for each point of view - that is why there is ongoing debate on the subject. Maybe you could answer the question on how the Apostles could regard Jesus as G(g)od and not be breaking the law to have no other god other than Jehovah.
If you are uncomfortable with the Trinity doctrine that is your right and I respect that. But either way, I won't be promoting an organisation that uses underhanded methods to deceive its followers.

How do we honestly know that the early Chrtistians viewed Jesus as God? How do we know that it wasn't the early Church (post apostles) that didn't make the mistake of thinking Jesus was God. Truth be told since we can't ask them we really don't know for certain exactly what their views were. All that we have to go on are writings that are so old and so copied that I don't believe we can reasonably expect a definitive statement from them.
I'm not suggesting anyone promote an organization that would use underhanded tactics to decieve people but the fact is, all arguing about wording aside, I did raise some very important issues that anyone (JW or not, religious or not) considering the Trinity would do well to consider. In fact I think that in the debate over the Trinity people get caught up in the wording of various scripturtes to the point where it becomes a big complicated debate and forget there are bigger questions to be answered, questions that are more relevant to the topic that whether or not a certain word should be here, there or anywhere.
Debates over wording are useless, been there, done that and it solves nothing.
 
Roddy
Roddy 8 years ago

Thanks for the info, JWFacts.
I've done my own research on the Trinity and I do find the Trinity to be an unscriptural doctrine. However, having said that, I've also found the approach that the WTS takes to formulate its claims and rebuttals on the Trinity to be quite substandard to accepted practice. In other words, they are guilty of taking statements out of context. But they don't have to use deceptive practices in order to debunk the Trinity unless deceptive practices are the norm in their journalism. (That's another topic.)
Anyway. I would have excused this somewhat if this was a the work of a junior high school student. I would expect higher standards from an organization who dispises college but not college graduates.
My gut feeling is that what college graduates they do get are placed in their legal department rather than their writing department. The legal department is where the "brains" of the organization really reside - if you get my meaning.
 
Roddy
Roddy 8 years ago


John 5:23 is considered one of the strongest statements that Jesus is God by commentaries such as Burton, Coughman's and John Calvin, because of the implication that honor should be to the same degree. This corresponds to the preceeding verse in John 5:18 that "On this account, indeed, the Jews began seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath but he was also calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God."
This only proves that is what the Jews thought he was doing, not that he was actually doing it.
If There is a Trinity then answer these questions:
God told Moses that "No man may see me and yet live" yet how many thousands saw Jesus and DID live??? If Jesus was God of the OT then that would imply he transformed himself into a lesser being in order to walk the earth for how else could you contain all that power, energy, knowledge and greatness that is God? No being who has power, knowledge, education and stature is willingly going to make him or her self into a person with less power, knowledge, education and stature
So Jesus was praying to himself in the garden?
The bible also says that no structure of man could contain God...yet Jesus was contained within many many man made structures in his time. How could something as small and puny as a house be expected to contain the greatness of God? It cannot
Jesus died and went to hell for 3 days...no human has the ability to kill God or any god unless we ourselves have created them. If Jesus is God then you are saying that humans killed their creator. If that's the case then how can he be a true god?
I don't for one minute believe that there is a Trinity. Certainly the Jews (and Muslims for that matter) don't believe in it, and didn't at the time either. I accept the arguement that if the early Christians were refering to a trinity type arrangement that it would have been a lot harder to attract Jews to it because it's not an obvious extention of their religion which is what Chirstianity is supposed to be...the final result of the Jewish religion, the end of the path.
Agreed.
I think it is another topic regarding the WTS standards, or lack of, when it comes to truth and accuracy in journalism. How the WTS tries to debunk the Trinity is amaturish at best. Surprizing for an organization that has been publishing for over a hundred years.
The Trinity falls flat on its face when Biblical facts are brought to bear.
 
Awakened at Gilead
Awakened at Gilead 8 years ago

Thanks for the information JWFacts...
I realize that you are not promulgating the doctrine, as some are crticizing for just that. But like Leo, I was incensed when I first read Signs of the Last Days and discovered how the WTS has misquoted everything to suit their agenda. This is just one more example of WTS selective cherry-pickin...
Your site was instrumental in my deprogramming. For that I am eternally grateful (although I don't believe in eternal life, lol).
Lance
 
serendipity
serendipity 8 years ago

Hi JWfacts, Very thorough - thanks for your work on this! I hope the book "Jesus and Yahweh" by Harold Bloom will shed light on this topic. It's in my stack to read.
 
passwordprotected
passwordprotected 8 years ago

I think it's safe to say that the notion of the trinity is one that JWs and exJWs alike find difficult to reconcile with their studies in the scriptures, both within and certainly during the early days outside the Org. I'm doing my best to come to terms with the WTS dishonesty of doctrine.
What I've quickly realised is that it's easier to find texts 'proving' the trinity than it is to find texts proving the 144,000 is a literal number of kings and priests in heaven.
Paul, as usual, deserves commendation for his research and thoroughness in exposing the WTS's on-going intellectual and spiritual dishonesty.
Thanks, Paul.
 
runningonfaith
runningonfaith 8 years ago

Great stuff jwfacts,i've just added your web site to my favored,thanks for taking the time to reserch and post all this info.
 
2112
2112 8 years ago

Very nice job JWFacts, presented extreemely well - Thanks
Jringe01 - As has been said this was a presentation/discussion of the WT deception in presenting their material, and the Trinity was just the example JWFacts used to illustrate it. However your first post quoted some scriptures, yet your second post in responce to someone said we don't know what the writers were really thinking so we can't really determine what they meant. How do the two posts follow each other?
Not trying to argue but just want to understand.

Thanks
 
Pahpa
Pahpa 8 years ago

It must be noted that the trinity doctrine was introduced after the death of the apostles and early Christians. Even then, it took centuries to define and to refine this teaching. It caused not only the rift between the trinitarians and arians in the 4th century, but the specifics of it became a controversy between the Catholic and Orthodox branches of Christendom. And all through this historical period it was rejected by various religious groups.
What bothers me most is that some Christians insist that it is the "central doctrine of Christianity." They believe without this teaching one can not be a Christian. To me this seems to be the same mentality of the Watchtower Society who insists that only its way is "the truth."
Trinitarians are not beyond deception either. One only has to consider the insertion of l John 5:7 in the older versions of the Bible or the treatment of John 1:18 in the newer ones. I certainly don't defend the Watchtower's notorious mishandling of quotes in its publications. But there is enough blame to spread around to include others.
 
reniaa
reniaa 8 years ago


Reniaa , I have found that most people do not know the intricacies of the Trinity, nor do they care. I was explaining the Witness stance once to my boss and he said, but they (father/son/spirit) are different, and they are the same. That is the great wonder of God. That is why I no longer think it matters how people understand God. The Bible is certainly not clear about the relationship of Father and Son, and we as humans have no logical ability to understand the spirit dimension at any rate. So to me tolerance of others understanding is more important.
I did see a trinity discussion on here showing how cs lewis managed to persuade himself towards the trinity and ended up basically saying the same as you...that its a wonderful mystery, But it's not a mystery how it came about... even the smallest investigation of the internet shows the trinity is just not a bible teaching at all!, no scripture absolutely defines the trinity not even using the word trinity or saying 3 in one, it's ironic then that you cite "jehovah" as a example against the Jws because it at least does appear in the OT bible and so has more legal right than the trinity. If you took both to a court battle I know which would win.
 
jwfacts
jwfacts 8 years ago

Reniaa,
Your argumentation is completely incorrect. The word Jehovah did not appear in the NT, so to add it in and pretend it was there is absolute dishonesty. The result is that it changes the word of God and affects the meaning of key passages.
On the otherhand, the word Trinity is not falsely added to the bible, it is a term to distinguish a doctrine. In similar fashion the WTS uses many terms not used in the Bible to assist in identifying their doctrine. For example, disfellowship and Governing Body. The word disfellowship does not appear, but is used to simply identify a doctrine. Similarly, the word Trinity does not appear, but is used to distinguish a doctrine from many competing theories regarding the Nature of God, included the WTS's Arian based concept and Modalism.
The relevant question is not whether the word Trinity appears, but whether the Trinity doctrine is a fair representation regarding the Nature of God, as found in the Bible. There are many detailed works outlining why the Trinity is the most accurate concept regarding the Nature of God, which arose due to the New Testament describing Jesus as Jehovah. (ie, OT Scriptures regarding Jehovah being quoted as applying to Jesus, and Jesus being referred to as God in the New Testament)
 
goingthruthemotions
goingthruthemotions a year ago

marked
 

«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
i have finally finished an article outlining the deceptive way in which the watchtower presents its anti-trinitarian information.
any constructive criticism such as regarding errors that may have crept in is welcome.
since i cannot embed a page i hope entering the html code works, otherwise it can be read at http://jwfacts.com/index_files/trinity.htm.



Related Topics
tjwTimothy
HELP ME PLZ
by tjwTimothy 4 years ago
tjwTimothy
Sorry, I hate to do this
by tjwTimothy 4 years ago
Christ Alone
Why did the Early Church Accept the Four NT Gospels and Reject the Gnostic Gospels?
by Christ Alone 3 years ago
opusdei1972
"Tatian—JW Apologist or a Heretic Witness?"
by opusdei1972 2 years ago
Gorbatchov
The curious case of the 2012 year text foundation watchtower article
by Gorbatchov 4 years ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/164343/watchtower-deception-regarding-trinity?page=2&size=20





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ My JW MARKET RESEARCH
/  





 

My JW MARKET RESEARCH
by DannyHaszard 9 years ago 10 Replies latest 9 years ago   watchtower scandals
5
10
20
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

My market research~Danny Haszard The internet is like the telephone if you don't have it you will.When i first sat down at a PC in late 1999 and googled Jehovah Witness i was astonished at the search results. NOW December 2006 A comparison of the negative pages of Jehovah's Witnesses with other groups. When you load the search bar yourselves also view their respective news and images http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&lr=&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=jehovah+witness&btnG=Search Results 1 - 50 of about 1,140,000 for jehovahwitness.  http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&lr=&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=Mormon&btnG=Search Results 1 - 50 of about 9,750,000 forMormon  http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&q=Scientology&sa=N&oe=UTF-8&tab=iw Results 1 - 50 of about 7,080,000 for Scientology  What could the Watchtower leadership do to 'almost overnight' improve it's image and become a more benign religion? (1) Repeal their draconian shunning protocol of dissident members (suggested by Gary B.) (2) Stop ineffective door to door cold call intrusion to recruit members,I have found this the be the #1 complaint among the general population (3) Allow their members to proselyte on the Internet and utilize modern telecommunications electronic media to advertise (4) Get rid of the embarassing blood transfusion thingy Any other suggestions? BTW-Much of the Mormon bad PR is from the splinter fundy polygamy cults which the Mainline church has renounced but is the legacy they just have to live with for now.
 
purplesofa
purplesofa 9 years ago

My first thought was Tom Cruise is bigger than Prince.
I do agree with everything you say. Interesting comparison
purps
 
jayhawk1
jayhawk1 9 years ago

In addition to what you said...
Ease back on the Suit/Tie requirement for meetings and allow sisters to wear slacks.
Allow their children to play sports and do other after school activities.
Put windows in their quick build Kingdom Halls.
QUIT REVISING YOUR LAME HISTORY AND ADMIT YOU HAD IT WRONG!
 
jwfacts
jwfacts 9 years ago

JW's always try to claim that the negative comments about them on the Internet are proof of persecution, and therefore their being the truth. I always point to the fact that other similar groups get just as much if not more negative comments. Are the Mormons the truth, since they are more persecuted than JWs?
 
fokyc
fokyc 9 years ago

What could the Watchtower leadership do to 'almost overnight' improve it's image and become a more benign religion? Any other suggestions?


Start being more
honest in their dealings with everybody and STOP lying about so many things, this particularly relates to Elders.
fokyc
 
MadTiger
MadTiger 9 years ago

Start being more honest in their dealings with everybody and STOP lying about so many things, this particularly relates to Elders.
fokyc




 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

JW's always try to claim that the negative comments about them on the Internet are proof of persecution, and therefore their being the truth. I always point to the fact that other similar groups get just as much if not more negative comments. Are the Mormons the truth, since they are more persecuted than JWs?
Although NOT part of this group Jews are the most persecuted of all,nobody gets beat on like the Jews.
JW's are 'persecuted' because of watchtower corporate cult practices especially 'touching' one's family with the unscritural application of treating dissidents like the anti-Christ.
Not just formerly fooled ex-members but this is a big complaint with non believers whose family members go MIA and no longer home for the holidays.
Even in underworld gangs mafia family is off limits this is hitting below the belt
 
bernadette
bernadette 9 years ago

reduce the meetings to one meeting a week for 1 hour on sundays.
bernadette
 
Honesty
Honesty 9 years ago

They could begin setting things right by allowing sisters to pray for the congregation on Sunday morning.... without being forced to wear a skanky hanky on top of their heads.
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 9 years ago

Another suggestion would be to change the Two Witness requirement for child molesters and encourage JW's to report child abuse cases to the police.
 
martinjw7
martinjw7 9 years ago

Reform goals
1. Jehovahs witnesses must terminate completely (especially financial) dependence on WTS and all of associate corporations.
2.Jehovahs witnesses must terminate dependence on publications of WTS, especially formed by theirs “regular worldwide unified” reading.

3. Do not spread WTS publications already. Advertise Bible only.

4. Break of three weeks congregations. Substitute by one prayer.

5. Terminate of blood transfusion ban.

6. Terminate of secret and laic judicial committees. Obvious and relevant biblical sins negotiate openly and publicly.

7. Terminate a sign of apostate connected with draconic punishments.

8. Terminate dividing to two classes of Christians with two different hopes, especially on Memorial.

9. Disengage all elderly members of Governing Body from a function.

10. Return Lord Jesus Christ to his position. For example in some verses in NWT.

Of course, it is greatest utopia, but “I have a dream…”

(Author is leader of dissident pages in Czech and Slovak languages. www.straznavez.cz and www.krev.info)
straznavez = watchtower, krev = blood
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo 25 days ago
Faithful Witness
Scientology Expose: Katie Holmes & Leah Remini are each the cover story for celebrity mags (People & in Touch)
by Faithful Witness 4 months ago
Terry
A POP QUIZ about the origin of "NEW LIGHT"
by Terry a month ago
AndersonsInfo
Brownstoner: How the Jehovah’s Witnesses Acquired Some of Brooklyn’s Most Insanely Valuable Properties
by AndersonsInfo a month ago
Tenacious
Has anyone noticed how in the October JW Broadcast, Losch encourages good works towards ALL people?
by Tenacious 5 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/125452/my-jw-market-research







Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ JW's History - A Real Cast of Characters!
/  





 

JW's History - A Real Cast of Characters!
by Richie 12 years ago 8 Replies latest 12 years ago   watchtower scandals
5
10
20
Richie
Richie 12 years ago

This is what I found while cruising the internet this afternoon: Interesting indeed!
 






In the beginning God created Charles!


Charles
Who taught his bible students that without His Counsel, they couldn't possibly understand the bible. And that the spiritual "Rapture" of those who had already died, began in 1878.
Born into a "well to do" Pittsburgh Presbyterian family in 1852. By age sixteen, Charles had learned the salesman's trade from his father and changed his religious affiliation to Congregationalist. He soon became dissatisfied with the doctrines of "Salvation by Faith," and "Eternal Punishment" but found more appealing doctrine within the "Adventist" movement. By the time he turned twenty three, he discovered the sales persistence of printed pamphlets, magazines and hand bills. It wasn't long before he had his own publishing house and was well on his way to becoming a self styled non-ordained preacher.

Matthew 24:45-47
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46 Blessed [is] that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
That's how it started. A religiously dissatisfied and supposedly, well intentioned young man, known as Charles Taz Russell, along with his printing press, led a group of "Bible Students" who legally became "Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society" in 1884 and eventually came to be known as "The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society (WTBTS,)" The "Russellites" as they were known back then, did not adopt the name Jehovah's Witnesses until 1931. The "Russellites" were a loosely organized, and quite independent bunch. They were even independent of each other, they relied of the Russell's printed word for their direction and doctrine. They tried to copy and apply the lack of organization that was so prevalent in the early Christian Church. They became so dependent on Russell's rhetoric that they began to refer to him as "Pastor" and "The Faithful and Wise Servant" looking to him as if he were God's appointed representative on earth, honors that Russell never publically denied and would privately substantiate. This gave Charles a great deal of power. "Power corrupts" and Charles was no exception. His wife divorced him claiming, lack of sex, monetary problems, extra marital affairs on his part and she even accused him of fondling children! If you are a JW, or have been researching the JW's on your own.
What she has to say, takes on a familiar sound!
alt
Would you buy a religion or a bushel of wheat from this man?
Charlie, portrayed himself as being basically naive. In reality he was a "Flimflam Man," who in addition to generating his own peculiar interpretations of the "Bible" was also heavily involved in the pseudo sciences that were making the rounds of his time. Sciences such as Astrology, Pyramidology, Phrenology and various Medical Quackery were definitely on his list. All of this made him look, to the outside world, to be very much a "Charlatan." His public image did not improve when he became convinced he was doing something special for the farmers of the world. Charles undertook to market for a price of $65.00 a bushell a sub-standard grade of wheat as "Miracle Wheat" which he purported "would perform better than all other varieties." When the sham was discovered he was ordered by the courts to make proper restitution to all his customers. Because of his "sincerity," Charles shone best when it came to flogging biblical nonsense. A friend named George Stores introduced Charles to the doctrines of "Conditionalism, Soul Sleep and Paradise Earth." His wife, Maria, invented the doctrine of "The Faithful and Wise Servant."
With very few original ideas of his own, Charles found it easier to borrow bits of doctrine and dogma from various "Christian" writers, people and religions, then mould them into his own version of;

" T h e T r u t h ! " 

Along with his Second Adventist mentor, Nelson H. Barbour, Charles believed that Bible verses containing numbers were encrypted messages from God, about the scheduling of future events such as Armageddon. Russell originally claimed that the second coming of Christ had already ocured in 1874 but later re-scheduled the start of Armageddon to 1914 when he found new ways of anticipating what God was going to do. Charles based his 1914 prediction for the start of Armageddon, on his interpretation of numerical bible passages and backed his arguments with measurements derived from the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt. If a measurement didn't quite fit his theory, Chuck had no problem "adjusting" his calculations to make the measurement fit (go ahead and chuckle, this is meant to be a fair presentation, not one biased in any particular direction.) He referred to the pyramid as;
"God's Great Stone Witness."
"Once a Con Man always a Con Man." Charlie got to be so good at his con, he even coned himself. Besides being the founder of the Russellites / Jehovah's Witnesses, Charlie's biggest claim to fame was, Believing His Own Rhetoric to the point of spending the entire night, of October 4/5, 1914 on the roof of the sects Brooklyn headquarters waiting to view the arrival of "Gods Heavenly Forces." He believed that the outbreak of "World War I" in August of 1914 to be the start of Armageddon. By now Charles had also become an accomplished obscurantist. He was disappointed with the failure of God's army (led by Christ,) to arrive on schedule, so he published a series of "Dance Steps" designed to get him around the responsibility of being viewed as a "false prophet." Charles borrowed and incorporated some unused doctrine that he had picked up from a former friend and business partner N. H. Barbour, that "Christ had returned invisablly," he declared that Christ indeed did arrive on time, but that the return was invisible and that Christ would become visible at a later though unspecificed date.
Ah! The marvels of the "Lateral Shuffle."

"Furthermore, Science declares that there is a far mightier Center, around which these countless millions of suns revolve, accompanied by their planets and satellites. This great Center seems to be associated with the Pleiades, particularly with Alcyone, the central star of this renowned group. For this reason the suggestion has been made that the Pleiades may represent the Residence of Jehovah, the place from which He governs the Universe." 
ZWT Jun 15 1915 p.185
God's obviously differing time table, did not deter "Dear Old Charlie," from fabricating newer and wilder doctrine. Claiming that Science backs him was common (we will get more into that later.) Precisely which science backed him up..... Well, Chuck just never gets around to mentioning. Also note that the exerpt shown on the right, leaves just enough ambiguity so that there is room for denial. For what ever reason, Charles decided that God lived on the star Alcyone in the Pleiades Group. When you get done laughing, realize that this was an "Article of Faith" until 1953. If you were a JW between 1915 and 1953, you believed with all your heart that God really did live on Alcyone.
And if you didn't, you hid your disbelief, and hoped you were wrong.
Two years after the "Armageddon Fiasco," while riding a train from California to Kansas City and wearing a toga, sixty two year old Charles was "called to meet his maker," on; October 31, 1916 (Halloween.)
Who said God doesn't have a sense of humor?



Here Comes The Judge!
In every organization of five or more people, there is always one person who is really in charge, there is always one person favoured by the one in charge to take over and there is always one person who thinks he should be in charge. Charlie's little band of zealots, was no different. In his last will and testement, Charles named a committee of men to take over from him, to form a "Governing Body." They were all "friends" of Charles and were willing to substitute for him. The presidency was to be perodically rotated by democratic voting. However there was one person in that crowd who believed that he should be in charge, who hated the idea of democracy and was prepared to act.....
Charlie's legal advisor Jehovahs or Joes Organization?
by Randall Watters','wheat')" onmouseout=kill() href="http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2919/thejudge.html" target=main ;>Joseph Franklin Rutherford!

alt
Joseph Franklin Rutherford
Rutherford was a "Great Pharasiee," Judge, Meglomaniac, Drunk, Smoker and all round "Devil of a Guy." He did more to shape the modern edition of the witnesses than any other president since. Using quasi legal tatics that would get him disbarred or maybe even some Jail time today. Rutherford overturned the Governing Body, deposed those who were appointed by Russell and seated himself as the president. "The Judge" had no use for the loose organization that Russell favored and instituted an "Iron Hand" policy in dealing with the various study groups now under his control. One of the great thorns in Joe's side was the congregational level, democratically elected, elders and Deacons. He viewed democracy with suspicion, and in 1932 began deposing locally elected officials and replacing them with his own appointees. By 1938 all congregations world wide were under Joseph's "Theocratic Dictatorship." He made ample use of intimidation and disfellowshipping, to get his way. Most of his policies and practices used in dealing with those who would oppose him, are still in use today.
"Booz Rutherford," as his contemporaries knew him, was hard drinking, hard smoking and vain. He did a little Jail time during World War 1 having been convicted along with several other "Russellities" of Sedition. Like his predecessor Charlie Russell, Joe used the Watch Tower magazine as an outlet for his own personal agendas. Because of his drinking, the Watch Tower magazine published many articles against prohibition. Joe was big on international evangelism, he set up printing plants in Switzerland and Palistine. He established the field service reporting system, and made evangelism a mandatory duty of all witnesses. He was also anti vaccination, anti aluminum, anti Catholic and viewed "The League of Nations" as "The Great Beast 666."
Matthew 24:46-47
46 Blessed [is] that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
 47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
The 1914 fiasco continued to provide some credibility problems for the "Russelites" so Joseph invented the doctrine that Christ's first act upon his return to earth had been a 4 year "Inspection Tour" of all the earth's religions, after which only the Russelites were found to be carying out the duties of "The Faithful and Wise Servent." And that in 1919 the sect had been selected by Christ as Jehovah's sole means of communication with mankind and given dominion over all of Christ's assets on earth. Rutherford established many of the sects more bizarre beliefs, such as the secular state being "Demonic" in origin and that all holidays both religious and public were of pagan extraction and not to be celebrated. At the urging of his friend Clayton Woodworth, he even considered the establishment of a "Theocratic Calendar" which was to begin with the Crucifixion, have months of 29 or 30 days, have new names for all days and months, and have it's New Year in the Spring. He was also responsible for the "Witness War of Hate" against the Roman Catholic Church, branding the church as
"The Great Harlot."
Isaiah 43:10
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] HE: before me there was no ùGod formed, neither shall there be after me. 
In 1931 after reading Isaiah 43:10, Joey, decided that the "Russelites" should be called "The Witnesses of Jehovah." He instituted an audio campaign against the Catholics, by employing loud speaker trucks to broadcast his message loud and clear throughout many cities in North America. The trucks frequently parked outside Roman Catholic Churches and blasted their message while Catholics were attending Holy Mass. At the same time, those in field service (missionaries) were given portable wind up phonographs and recordings of his speaches, to play for any hapless householder who invited the publishers inside. These poisionous tactics did little to endear the Witnesses to the population in general and Catholics in particular (my mother being one.) It did much to back up the claim that the Witnesses were the most hated, and persecuted religious sect on earth (after all they brought it upon themselves.) Witnesses still make this claim and use it to reafirm their belief that they are "God's only true organization on earth!"
"We must be 'God's Organization,' see how 'Satan's Henchmen' persecute us!"
Joe was a prolific writer, averaging a book a year and wasn't deterred in the slightest by previously failed prophesies, he worked up another and in September of 1920, published a book titled "Millions Now Living Will Never Die." This of course meant anyone who was a "Russellite." Because of this prophesy the Watch Tower Organization garnered many new converts. The "Judge" didn't like living in Brooklyn and figured California was more to his liking.

alt
Beth Sarim
So Joseph played the "prophsey game" again. He predicted that the ancient prophets, such as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, were scheduled to be resurrected in 1925. He used the opportunity to convince the sect to build a mansion in San Diego, where the prophets were expected to be gracious, accept the gift and take up residence. The prophets, of course, were not informed of Rutherfords schedule and failed to materialize as expected. Beth Sarim, as the sect called the mansion, was subsequently occupied by Rutherford until January 8, 1942.
God's sense of humor kicked in, and proved that Joe wasn't one of the "Millions who would never die."


Nathan The Bland!
Nathan H. Knorr, "Brownie" (referring to the condition of his nose,) as he was called in his absence, operated as vice president under Rutherford and replaced Rutherford by inheriting the presidency once it had been vacated.

alt
"Bland Nate," had very little personal appeal and prefered to focus Witness attention on the mother organization rather than the presidency. Nate didn't like to stand out, and preferred to work quietly in the back ground. He was strong on organization, and left the theological/prophetical side of the presidency to his chief obscurantist and theologian, Vice President Fred Franz. Like Rutherford he had no use for anyone who opposed him, and like his mentor, ruled with an Ïron Hand." He was responsible in part for a period of great growth in the organization and was directly responsible for the modern "witnessing techniques" and pioneer training methods now in common use. Nathan established the Gilead Ministrey School, where the sects missionaries and "special pioneers" are trained. Nathan's anonymity policy and organization promoting, led to the acceptance amoung witnesses of the Organizations words and publications, as infalable and coming directly from "Jehovah God."
"the Scriptures justify the 'war strategy' of hiding true facts from the enemy."
THE WATCHTOWER
May 15, 1960, page 295
"As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies..."THE WATCHTOWER
June 1, 1960, page 352The unofficial policy of lying became official, and that opened the door to all kinds of abuses. Witnesses automatically assume that as a Witnesses they are entitled to the truth. However that has never been officially stated and Witnesses could no longer rely on the Watch Tower to hand them the truth. During the 1960's the Watch Tower and Awake Magazines began promoting the idea that Armageddon was definitely going to happen, this time in the fall of 1975. Ordinary Witnesses, Men, Women and Children began receiving lessons in effective salesmanship, at the Kingdom Halls. Known as Theocratic Ministry School, the techniques that were taught, replaced the windup phonographs, and Rutherford's speaches, as means of persuading new people to join. Faceless anonymity, became a Watch Tower standard, articles were no longer signed, authors are never identified, and the names of those translating the bible into the two witness bibles, The New World Translation and The Kingdom Interlinear, have never been published. This is of great value to the organization, because it leaves open the issue of responsibility. Because nobody takes responsibility when things go wrong, the organization can claim "We never said that!" When there is no particular individual to identify, it also leaves open the ability of the organization to change it's own official history, as frequently as pleases it. Leaving the blame for things that go wrong to be applied either to miraculous persecution by "Satan" or to "misunderstanding" on the part of the rank and file witness. Nathan finally turned over to the "Governing Body" the majority of power that Russell originally declared should be theirs.Taken out by Cancer at the age of 72 and like his predecessor Charlie Russell, Nathan Homer (Brownie) Knorr died, two years after the failure of "Armageddon 1975" on June 7, 1977.
God's sense of humor again?


Freddy Theology!
Once again the vice president took over when the president died. Fred Franz, another scallywag in the list, took over the emancipated presidency left behind by Knorr.

alt
He was also the sect's Theologian, and spent much of his time behind the scenes conjuring up new and innovative biblical interpertations. Working first under Rutherford, then Knorr, Freddy, although not exiled to Patmos, could be called "Johnny Theology" as was St. John.
Gensis 2, 4-6
4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5 before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; 6 but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground 
Unlike St. John, Fred was publically proven to be a liar. In 1954 he testified in a Scottish court that he could read and write Hebrew. When the court presented him with a simple translation problem, that any first year Hebrew student would be able to do. (Genesis 2:4-6) Fred refused to attempt the translation. He also claimed to be a Rhodes Scholar in Greek and Roman languages. The closest he ever came to being a Rhodes Scholar was to write the entrance exam in 1913. Fred was directly involved with many if not all the publications of the WTBTS from 1916 until his death on Dec. 22, 1992 at the age of 99. Fred is suspected to have been one of the "great pushes" behind the 1975 Armageddon failure, and along with Nathan Knorr, Albert Schroeder, George Gangas and Milton Henschell, none of whom were qualified Greek or Hebrew schollars, to have had a major part in the publication of the New World Translation and the Kingdom Interlinear bibles. Fred made ample use of the sect's official policy of "lying to those not entitled to the truth," he may have even invented it. Looking for someone to blame for the decline in membership after the failure of Armageddon 75. Fred put on the "Iron Paw" and with tatics so vile that only the likes of Torr Kamada could appreciate, he initated an internal "Witch Hunt" and mini-Inquisition which resulted in the disfellowshipping of many of the Bethel staff and even the framing and subsequent disfellowshipping of Fred's own nephew and Governing Body member Raymond Franz. Thus all the old policies and Freddie's doctrines remained undiluted. So when Freddy Theology, the sect's fourth president, their theological and doctrinal innovator left the scene, both seats became vacant.


Future History, Armageddon of A Different Sort!
Milton Henschel now fills the presidential seat and if the pattern of history, remains intact this man will promote Armageddon once again and die two years after it doesn't happen.
alt
Born in 1919, Milton is the second youngest member of the Governing body and was selected primairly for his health and vitality. He is the last of the Governing Body members considered to be one of the 144,000 anointed. This produces for him and the Governing Body some real problems. Only Men baptized before 1935 can be appointed to the Governing Body, women are second class citizens, and cannot rule. To allow younger men to acceed to the governing body, requires a fundamental change in Witness doctrine, from which the sect claims it's authority, that of the "faithful and discreet slave class." The sect claims that "Christ appointed them overseers of "all the spiritual assets on earth" during Christs invisible inspection tour in 1919. (If you are a Witness, this is serious, if not, chuckling is permitted.) There is provision for younger men to be considered "faithful and discreet slaves," this is a claim that must be initiated by the individual in question, however anyone making such a claim is looked upon with severe skepticism. JW doctrine does not provide for a change of leadership before Armageddon actually happens. So Milton is in a miserable situation, he must either produce a working Armageddon or make severe doctrinal changes. Either way the Organization will change and the severity of that change and it's effects is difficult to estimate. He also needs to deal with the organizations immense wealth, for when he dies, the real struggle in the power vacuum, will be for control of that wealth. Since it is quite likely that Milton will survive the remaining Governing Body Members, there will be no one to assume the presidency.
The Organization will be left without, it's president, governing body and visible head.
With new doctrine, new leadership and control of the wealth up for grabs, An Unfolding Crisis for Jehovahs Witnesses
by David A. Reed','wheat')" onmouseout=kill() href="http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/web/crj0157a.html" target=main ;>Jehovah's Witnesses will face the equivalent of civil war. Moral corruption fostered by the lying policy combined with the effects of the self appointed anointed and driven by greed (desire to control the wealth,) will quickly eat out the remaining internal structure (nobody will trust anybody) and organizational collapse will be imminent. Watch Tower and Awake magazines will publish new and conflicting doctrines on a per issue basis, they may even cease publication. It is conceivable that there will be two or more strong contenders for the top job. In that case there is the possibility of a schism, resulting in two or maybe three splinter groups. Just look at the history of the Catholic Church for some real good examples and don't forget, the Jehovah's Witnesses are more like the Catholics than either would ever care to admit.
Either way Witnesses world wide, will loose "Jehovah God's guiding Voice" and the authority structure on which they are dependent (with it changing so much what can you believe and trust?) Regardless of what happens in Brooklyn, the rank and file witnesses will be the most affected and they will stand to benefit the least from either the changes or the collapse. The organization is also under legal and moral challenges from it's failure to effectively deal with child sexual abuse problems within the body of Elders. Much like the Catholic Church and the Mount Cassel crisis, Witness Eldership has condoned, glossed over and "swept under the rug" many child sexual abuse cases, with the idea of protecting the organization's image. Those policies in that direction are now bearing their fruit, very bitter fruit. There is a great desire amoungst the rank and file witnesses to give up much of the hatred that seperates them from the rest of Christanity. Very many witnesses desire to be accepted as equals by the general Christian community. Milton is also under severe pressure from the rank and file, to radically change their blood transfusion policy. There have been recent rumblings in that direction, with statements from Bethel, saying that it is a matter of personal conscience for the individual but at the same time, the individual faces autodisassociation, if he/she does.
I really don't envy Milton. He is "between a rock and a hard place." He will be chastised by one or more factions, if he does absolutely anything or nothing at all. Milt, is a "Stats Quo" man, which means he abhors change, and would rather sit tight and wait for it all to go away. Wether he likes it or not the WTBTS is in for radical change, rapidly blinking new light, doctrinal and policy flipflops almost on a daily basis, and an internal civil war like struggle for control of the financial assets. Many witnesses will be disheartned, disappointed and disillusioned, some won't know what to believe, some will embrace other, possibly more deadly cults and some will become mainstream Christians, or even Agnostics.. I don't envy Milton or any individual witness.
The time for the end, their end, is at hand.

Richie :kissing_heart:)
 
Richie
Richie 12 years ago

I found this site just by accident and it explains exactly the way how the Borg came to be: through intimidation and manipulation! You can clearly see that power corrupts and because of this corruption a full-fledged cult has emerged.
Richie :kissing_heart:)
 
Gopher
Gopher 12 years ago

This site wonders what new things Uncle Miltie would bring to the table. Not much. Now he's gone. Actually there hasn't been much new since that noted Bible prophet Freddie Franz passed on. The WTS is stuck recycling its old material.
The power hunger of the men involved, particularly starting with Rutherford, is not atypical of any large organization. These 'presidents of the Society' were presented to us (when we were JW's) as saints.
Now it's easy to see they were just really good at maneuvering their way to the top of the scrap heap that is the WT Society.
 
franklin J
franklin J 12 years ago

the moonies have a far more fascinating history
the JWs are very middle tier.....
(spoken by one who grew up---hopeless)
 
got my forty homey?
got my forty homey? 12 years ago

Here's a unknown president of the Society who lasted only a week because of his differences in belief about prayer. He thought you can only talk to Jehovah via a morsecode machine! Then came Franz!
 
gitasatsangha
gitasatsangha 12 years ago

Morse Code Lord's Prayer in International Morse Code, especially for 40.(hope I got it right..i'm rusty)
--- ..- .-. ..--. .- - .... . .-. .. .- .... . .- ...- . -.
.-.. . - -.-- --- ..- .-. .... --- ..-. -.-- -. .- --. . -... . -.- -. --- .-- -.
.-.. . - -.-- --- ..- .-. -.- .. -. --. -.. --- --. -.-. --- --. .
.- -. -.. -.-- --- ..- .-. .-- .. .-.. -... . -.. --- -. .
--- -. . .- .-. - .... .- ... .. -. .... . .- ...- . -. .-.-.-
--. .. ...- ..- ... - --- -.. .- -.-- - .... . -... .-. . .- -.. - .... .- - .-- . -.. . . -..
.- -. -.. ..-. --- .-. --. .. ...- . ..- ... --- ..- .-. .-- .-. --- -. --. ...
.-. ... .-- . ..-. --- .-. --. .. ...- . - .... --- ...
.-- .... --- .... .- ....- . --. --- -. . .-- .-. --- -. --. - --- ..- ... .-.-.-
--. --- -. --- - .-.. . .- -.. ..- ... .. -. - --- - .-. .. .- ..-.
-... ..- - ... .- ...- . ..- ... ..-. .-. --- -. . ...- .. ..-. .-.-.-
(in audial form)
dahdahdah ditditdah ditdahdit ditditdahdahdit ditdah dah ditditditdit dit ditdahdit ditdit ditdah ditditditdit dit ditdah ditditditdah dit dahdit
ditdahditdit dit dah dahditdahdah dahdahdah ditditdah ditdahdit ditditditdit dahdahdah ditditdahdit dahditdahdah dahdit ditdah dahdahdit dit dahditditdit dit dahditdah dahdit dahdahdah ditdahdah dahdit
ditdahditdit dit dah dahditdahdah dahdahdah ditditdah ditdahdit dahditdah ditdit dahdit dahdahdit dahditdit dahdahdah dahdahdit dahditdahdit dahdahdah dahdahdit dit
ditdah dahdit dahditdit dahditdahdah dahdahdah ditditdah ditdahdit ditdahdah ditdit ditdahditdit dahditditdit dit dahditdit dahdahdah dahdit dit
dahdahdah dahdit dit ditdah ditdahdit dah ditditditdit ditdah ditditdit ditdit dahdit ditditditdit dit ditdah ditditditdah dit dahdit ditdahditdahditdah
dahdahdit ditdit ditditditdah ditditdah ditditdit dah dahdahdah dahditdit ditdah dahditdahdah dah ditditditdit dit dahditditdit ditdahdit dit ditdah dahditdit dah ditditditdit ditdah dah ditdahdah dit dahditdit dit dit dahditdit
ditdah dahdit dahditdit ditditdahdit dahdahdah ditdahdit dahdahdit ditdit ditditditdah dit ditditdah ditditdit dahdahdah ditditdah ditdahdit ditdahdah ditdahdit dahdahdah dahdit dahdahdit ditditdit
ditdahdit ditditdit ditdahdah dit ditditdahdit dahdahdah ditdahdit dahdahdit ditdit ditditditdah dit dah ditditditdit dahdahdah ditditdit
ditdahdah ditditditdit dahdahdah ditditditdit ditdah ditditditditdah dit dahdahdit dahdahdah dahdit dit ditdahdah ditdahdit dahdahdah dahdit dahdahdit dah dahdahdah ditditdah ditditdit ditdahditdahditdah
dahdahdit dahdahdah dahdit dahdahdah dah ditdahditdit dit ditdah dahditdit ditditdah ditditdit ditdit dahdit dah dahdahdah dah ditdahdit ditdit ditdah ditditdahdit
dahditditdit ditditdah dah ditditdit ditdah ditditditdah dit ditditdah ditditdit ditditdahdit ditdahdit dahdahdah dahdit dit ditditditdah ditdit ditditdahdit ditdahditdahditdah

73, Gita
 
CeriseRose
CeriseRose 12 years ago

My browser doesn't seem to like this posting...any chance you can save my eyes and post the link? :smile:
 
Richie
Richie 12 years ago

What's the problem Cerise? Need any help?

Richie :kissing_heart:)
 
CeriseRose
CeriseRose 12 years ago

When this particular page loads it comes out HUGE. The pictures are covering some of the text as well. Nothing else on the site or others does it...it's just something weird on this page.
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
TerryWalstrom
Exactly what is the HISTORIC view of the DIVINE or of what being GOD meant long ago?
by TerryWalstrom a year ago
AnnOMaly
AN ALTERNATIVE CONVERSATION WITH A NEIGHBOR - Watchtower, October 2014
by AnnOMaly 2 years ago
LogCon
Translation from Japanese site, part 2
by LogCon 2 years ago
blondie
Blondie's Highlights You Did Not Hear at the 8-23-2015 WT Study (PRAYER 1)
by blondie 6 months ago
Crazyguy
Proof that the lingiusts are lying about words used in the bible IE: Shaddai, Angels, Elohim, Yhwh?
by Crazyguy 5 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/69743/jws-history-real-cast-characters





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Purple triangle monopoly
/  





 

Purple triangle monopoly
by 5go 8 years ago 18 Replies latest 8 years ago   watchtower scandals
5
10
20
5go
5go 8 years ago

This is one I would love to see busted.
JW were not the only ones to get a purple triangle in the Nazi camps. I bet they were not even the majority of the ones to receive them.

The purple triangle was a Nazi concentration camp badge used by the Nazis to identify several un-orthodox religious groups known as "Bibelforscher". [1] Among these were Jehovah's Witnesses, a few members of Witness splinter groups, and members of the Adventist, Baptist, and New Apostolic movements. [2]
This fact is lost on a lot of people because of the JW lying about how much the nazies hated them for not serving in the army.
 
shopaholic
shopaholic 8 years ago

I did a tour of a concentration camp in Germany about a year ago. The bethelite that was supposed to give the tour was running late, so a staff person started the tour. About 45 minutes later the bethelite showed up and took over. While the staff person gave the tour, I got the distinct impression that JWs were not the only folks with the purple triangle. Also the staff person spoke about ALL of the various groups terrorized at that time but the bethelite made it seem like only JWs were affected.
 
blondie
blondie 8 years ago

source

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_triangle#_note-1
 
5go
5go 8 years ago

Another group (sorry to offend any) that needs to stop bringing it up before it back fires on them, is the Jews.

The Gypsies had it way worse from the Nazies, and you rarely hear about it from them. Also, you never hear how we have to give the gypsies a place to live. Despite the fact that the Gypsies are really being persecuted world wide even now!
 
JK666
JK666 8 years ago

5go,
Wow! Another "strong and wrong" comment. What band of Gypsies are you running with?
JK
 
kerj2leev
kerj2leev 8 years ago

Another group (sorry to offend any) that needs to stop bringing it up before it back fires on them, is the Jews
5go you are [edit] insane! You pile of [edit], you are one of the most ignorant [edit] on this site!
 
ninja
ninja 8 years ago

Image and video hosting by TinyPic ......to be fair.....I think heavens gate tried valiantly to break the purple triangle monopoly........
 
5go
5go 8 years ago

I am sorry but from what I have been hearing in my town from my towns people it is true they are tired of hearing about what happened sixty years ago no matter how awful it was. It is becoming a sticking point inthe southern USA.
 
kerj2leev
kerj2leev 8 years ago


I am sorry but from what I have been hearing in my town from my towns people it is true they are tired of hearing about what happened sixty years ago no matter how awful it was. It is becoming a sticking point inthe southern USA.
Who actually talks like this? My towns people, god you are that dumb! Have you ever been to the southern USA, or is that what you hear from your "towns people"?
 
llbh
llbh 8 years ago

5go I liked your first post about the purple triangle but you did ruin it by downplaying the holocaust. My dad was in the British Army and saw a concentration camp shortly after it was liberated, it was all that was said and worse. If my family were jewish it would be indelibly imprinted in thier minds

Agree about Gypsies they get little recognition. As do the Armenians of WW1.
It sounds llike you need to move town

regards llbh
 
5go
5go 8 years ago

Again I am sorry just lock this thread.
 
ronin1
ronin1 8 years ago

5go
Have you read Mein Kampt and also the book on the Neurenberg Trials?
If so, you would never downplay what happened during the Holocaust.
It needs to be talked about for generations to come because so many variations of the Holocaust have played out in other countries, world wide.
Ronin1
 
JK666
JK666 8 years ago

When is Gypsie Pride Week anyway?
JK
 
5go
5go 8 years ago

It needs to be talked about for generations to come because so many variations of the Holocaust have played out in other countries, world wide
Just the Jewish and Jehovah's Witness ones the Nazies perpatrated.
Not the Native American holocaust by the American Settlers and later the USA , from which Hitler got the idea to do what he did to all parties in the camps, not the Armenians killed by Turks during WW1, Not the Yugoslavian holocaust in my lifetime just that one that happen 60 years ago, not Rwandans. If I were to say any of those parties should get over it to a degree you would probaly say not a thing about it.

Most of those parties have either reconciled it our have atleast found forgiveness, but any dare say the Jews or JW's should try to forgive and forget past sins to a degree is perverted. Well then I am a perverted. I am not saying the Nazies were right they were wrong. Though so to is the nation formed by Jews fleeing europe they are doing almost the very same thing right now to the Palestinians. For ruffly the same reasons the german did it to them. They said they want to never let this happen to them or anyone else again but then turn around and do it to their neihbors when they get the chance.



By the way correction the Gyspies they suffered nearly the same percentage of loss as the Jews in the camps they by no means came close in numbers. Also aiding them is the fact they were considered outcasts and nomadic before Nazism started so they were able just leave and hide.
 
beginnersmind
beginnersmind 8 years ago

I kinda agree with your comments more specifically your final ones. Although your reasoning seems to be and correct me if im wrong that because the other victims of massacres have 'gotten on with their lifes' so should the Jewish people. I dont think we can compare and say they should all behave the same way. I think they should all equally be remembered but the Jewish Holocaust is the biggest and most well known so maybe thats why its the most prominent. Dont forget they also have a long history of horrendous persecution.
I dont know wether this was what you were trying to say in some indirect way but some people do have a persecution complex and harp on about how they are being treated and link it back to events that happened years ago not in their lifetime when its nothing to do with it. I know a person like this. However theres probably people like that in lots of races, religions etc.
I know for one i'll be teaching my children about the wrongs of all these Holocausts not just what happened in the nazi one. The saying that most are probably familiar with that 'those who dont remember history are condemned to repeat it' is I think the most important reason for all of us to never forget and make sure others dont as well.
 
5go
5go 8 years ago

During the same war 6,000,000 chinese were killed for the same reason some in camps if they made it, things like the rape of naking is a good reason why they didn't. The Japanese just raped and killed you on the spot for not being Japanese.
Want to know why we don't bring it up, because right after the war they became our very close allies against the Soviets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes
 
monophonic
monophonic 8 years ago

and, to be fair, jehovah's witnesses were in concentration camps and did suffer needlessly along with other groups...the problem is the wtbts and their lovely information spins, conveniently forgetting they were in support of anti-semitism themselves, the mid-30's "oops".
i feel bad for everyone that had to go through that, but the wtbts hasn't been discreet about using it as a promotional tool, and scare tactic that this will happen again any second when the great trib comes, so everyone needs to stay close to the borg.
my jewish friends have told me that when they were young they were shielded from knowing too much about it until they were age appropo to know the horrific things that happened, yet, the congregations would discuss experiences in explicit detail even when kids were in the kingdom halls. i remember being very smart at 5 and 6 years old and scared to death of the imminent torture that was going to come at any moment......30 years ago.....a five year old kid scared he was going to prison.....if parents were found out to be filling their kids heads with such horror, today the kids would probably be taken away..
"daddy tells me i'm going to be tarred and feathered"...that would go over real well with a social worker or cop.
 
DocBob
DocBob 8 years ago

"In Sachsenhausen, the purple triangle was also worn by Seventh Day Adventists, Baptists, pacifists, and possible also by supporters of the New Apostolic community, who however, were rarely committed to a camp" - Persecution and Resistance of Jehovah's Witnesses During the Nazi Regime by Hans Hesse, page 72
 
glenster
glenster 8 years ago

The various kinds of prejudice deserve disapproval, though not all the examples
given above have as long a history, or have a substantial percent of the U.S.
public still concerned to not encourage it. Just some info on anti-semitism:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_antisemitism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitic_canards
It's also contemporary in that some in the U.S. have concerns about the Mid-
East at times, and "Mein Kampf" is popular in some of the Arabic countries in
recent years.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf#Current_availability
The JWs leaders' anti-semitism wasn't just a pre- and early WWII thing, but
appeared again after WWII:http://gtw6437.tripod.com/id20.html
1946 A year after WW II, the late Rutherford's book "Let God Be True," used
for the next eight years to make converts, blamed the Jews for much of the Jews
own suffering:
"Much of their suffering has been brought upon themselves by their com-
 mercial, rebellious course of action. They will ever be a target of assault
 by Satan and his agents until Armageddon cleanses the earth of all opposers
 of Messiah-Christ. Therefore, their only hope is to accept Jehovah's Mes-
 siah, Christ Jesus, and come under the protection of his kingdom."
 ("Let God Be True," J.A. Rutherford, 1946 edition, p.209--omitted in the re-
 vised 1952 edition)
The JWs leaders may have meant to pander to the bigotted cliche of the greedy
Jwish person in the next example:
1956 "The persecutions the Jews suffered bear grim testimony to the accuracy
of the Biblical warning as to what the Jews could expect if they went contrary
to their maker, Jehovah God. (Leviticus 26:14-33) At the same time it should
impress them with the need of putting their trust, not in silver and gold, nor
in men and human agencies, but solely in Jehovah God." ("Awake!" Dec.,22, 1956,
p.20)
1963 The persecution of JWs in WWII was "...a horrible Nazi persecution of
'Jehovah’s Witnesses', worse than that of the Jews." ("Babylon the Great Has
Fallen! God’s Kingdom Rules!" 1963, pp.549-550)http://www.yadleachim.org/Index.asp?CategoryID=131&ArticleID=207
It's also contemporary as a concern about the JWs leaders since they've mis-
characterized some of the earlier things in more recent years:
1968 "During World War I God's people expected it to lead directly into Arma-
geddon, but Jehovah prevented such a climax at that time. We didn't succumb to
such an expectation during World War II." ("Kingdom Ministry," Jan.,1968, p.5)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWII
1975 "The blame for the mass murder of Jews, however, does not rest with
Christianity. It rests with Christendom and her churches. The reason for the
holocaust is plain: Christendom's clergy and their flocks abandoned the teach-
ings of the Bible and of Christ Jesus in favor of supporting the political
state. Centuries of history show that this is by no means the first time they
have done so.
"By contrast, thousands of European Jews can testify that one religious group
in Germany underwent persecution equal to that heaped upon the Jews: Jehovah's
witnesses. Hundreds of these died in concentration camps. They suffered be-
cause of insisting on holding to and practicing true Christianity rather than
worship of the State." ("The Watchtower," May 15th, 1975, p.294)
There's a lot you can correct there, but for the moment I'll leave it at that
proper generalizations refer to what's mostly true, and most Christians fought
against the Nazis and most JWs were in the U.S. and talked any potential con-
vert out of doing it.
1989 In a JWs leaders' "Awake!" under the heading "The Holocaust--victims or
martyrs?": "all those who suffered as a result of the Holocaust were victims,
but only a minority were truly martyrs." The Jews, Poles, Russians and Ukrain-
ians were victims, "But the case of 'Jehovah’s Witnesses' in Europe was differ-
ent." The tract claims that the JWs were the only true martyrs of the Holo-
caust. ("Awake!" April 8, 1989)http://www.yadleachim.org/Index.asp?CategoryID=131&ArticleID=207
The Jewish people were targeted for genocide for being Jews, whereas Hitler
just wanted the JWs to not spread tracts with bad PR about him around Germany.
The main thing that happened before JWs started appearing in Nazi prison camps
is that Rutherford had letters sent to Hitler that amounted to threatening Hit-
ler that if he didn't stop having the JWs harassed, Rutherford would send un-
armed JWs into the German streets with tracts so critical of Hitler that God
would destroy him soon.
1934 On Oct.7, all congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Germany assembled
to hear a letter read that was being sent to the officials of Hitler's govern-
ment. It said: "There is a direct conflict between your law and God's law....
Therefore this is to advise you that at any cost we will obey God's command-
ments, will meet together for the study of His Word, and will worship and serve
Him as He has commanded."
On the same day, Jehovah's Witnesses in 49 other countries met in special as-
sembly and sent the following telegram to Hitler: "Your ill-treatment of Jeho-
vah's witnesses shocks all good people of earth and dishonors God's name. Re-
frain from further persecuting Jehovah's witnesses; otherwise God will destroy
you and your national party." ("Awake!" Aug.22, 1995) (Actually, the Allies did
that to the Nazis while Rutherford damned the Allies and other people for not
agreeing with his idea of important things, like what year to put his invisible
Jesus in, from his mansion.)http://www.docbob.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=26
1935 On Jan.9, The first documented case of a JW incarcerated in Moringen
concentration camp was Anna Seifert.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moringen
http://www.gedenkstaette-moringen.de/
http://www.edition-temmen.com/timetable/
The current JWs leaders don't hold Rutherford tresponsible for getting fol-
lowers killed with his blundering prophet-playing, expanded ideas about worldli-
ness, etc.--they make out that they did something honorable by protecting their
followers from political involvement back then:
1996 "In 1929, at a time when laws of various governments were beginning to
forbid things that God commands or demand things that God's laws forbid, it was
felt that the higher powers must be Jehovah God and Jesus Christ. This was the
understanding Jehovah's servants had during the crucial period before and dur-
ing World War II and on into the Cold War, with its balance of terror and its
military preparedness. Looking back, it must be said that this view of things,
exalting as it did the supremacy of Jehovah and his Christ, helped God's people
to maintain an uncompromisingly neutral stand throughout this difficult period."
("The Watchtower," May 1, 1996, p.13-14)
1999 "First, Jesus Christ said of his followers: 'They are no part of the
world, just as I am no part of the world.' (John 17:14) Jehovah's Witnesses
take this principle seriously. Being 'no part of the world,' they are neutral
in the political affairs of the world.—John 18:36.
I don't think sending a threatening letter to Hitler and courting disaster for
followers is to take no part in the political affairs of the world.
2007 (date of authorship?) "Thus, the Witnesses never expressed support for
the Nazi Party. Moreover, in the exercise of religious freedom, they did not
intend to stop their public preaching.—Matthew 24:14; 28:19, 20."http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/1998/7/8/article_01.htm
There are lot of examples to the contrary about JWs leaders' support for the
Nazis and their outlooks, "positive Christianity," etc., on my web page of re-
search about it:http://gtw6437.tripod.com/id20.html
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo 25 days ago
AndersonsInfo
Brownstoner: How the Jehovah’s Witnesses Acquired Some of Brooklyn’s Most Insanely Valuable Properties
by AndersonsInfo a month ago
Terry
A POP QUIZ about the origin of "NEW LIGHT"
by Terry a month ago
Watchtower-Free
Jehovah's Witnesses in Denmark targeting migrants
by Watchtower-Free 18 days ago
oppostate
Jehovah's Witnesses 'ordered destruction' of notes which could have been used during child sexual abuse inquiry
by oppostate a month ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/143943/purple-triangle-monopoly





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ JWs look like "off-duty prozac-popping bank tellers"...
/  





 

JWs look like "off-duty prozac-popping bank tellers"...
by Jankyn 10 years ago 4 Replies latest 10 years ago   jw friends
5
10
20
Jankyn
Jankyn 10 years ago

Hi, guys. Found this one on the Alternet blog site, and had to share:
From "But what if I think 'people of faith' are a little crazy?" by Jan Frel. http://www.alternet.org/blogs/themix/38280/
I have two people in my close family who are long-time members of some very weird Christian splinter groups. One of them, who I won't identify, is a Jehovah's Witness. This relative -- an adherent for more than 20 years -- walks around, knocks on doors, passes out literature with some of the most laughable illustrations I've ever seen in my life. The most common pastiche is one composed of what look like off-duty prozac-popping bank tellers walking around in mocked-up nature scenes that most resemble a Hawaiian golf course in the adoring company of fuzzy mammals -- such as smiling tigers and koala bears. In the Jehovah Witness' world, this is supposed to be a depiction of paradise on Earth, when in fact it's litmus proof that 9th-rate minds are cooking up a weak broth of religious fantasy that makes the Left Behind series look as real as the pile of parking tickets in my glove compartment. Luckily for them, poor suckers like this relative of mine are satisfied with this Motel 6 version of Christianity.
And check out this pic and caption:

No, no, that tiger won't bite. This is paradise on earth.
I love it: "the Motel 6 version of Christianity."
Hope you enjoy.
Jankyn
 
Inquisitor
Inquisitor 10 years ago

prozac-popping bank tellers
"I'll check... computer says 'Nooooooooooo....' <cough+spit>"
My apologies to those who've never seen Little Britain. If you haven't yet seen Little Britain, you should!!
To those of you who have, have you ever met a JW who looked like that bank teller?
INQ
 
LDH
LDH 10 years ago

hilarious.
 
Inquisitor
Inquisitor 10 years ago



 
Virgochik
Virgochik 10 years ago

I'm sure they would be amazed if they read this! The Dubs are very proud of their art, and think it's a marvelous, inspired depiction of what Jehoopla's new system will look like. They swallow every picture, hook line and sinker. They expect people at the door to believe without question, too, and have no inkling that most people think the pictures are too wierd for words!
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
AndersonsInfo
Brownstoner: How the Jehovah’s Witnesses Acquired Some of Brooklyn’s Most Insanely Valuable Properties
by AndersonsInfo a month ago
The Searcher
Missionary Deceptively/Mistakenly Misquotes Scripture.........
by The Searcher 6 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo 25 days ago
blondie
Blondie's Highlights You Did Not Hear at the 8-23-2015 WT Study (PRAYER 1)
by blondie 6 months ago
The Searcher
A First Stepping-Stone For Bethelites & Lurkers?
by The Searcher 5 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/116248/jws-look-like-off-duty-prozac-popping-bank-tellers