Jehovah's-Witness . com forum discussions

Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Another 12 yr old df in cong 13 people df in 3 yrs
/  





 

Another 12 yr old df in cong 13 people df in 3 yrs
by poopie 2 days ago 33 Replies latest 12 hours ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20
poopie
poopie 2 days ago
Wow
 
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 2 days ago
What does a 12 year old do to get dfd?
 +1 / -0
zeb
zeb 2 days ago

who is running that cong? the SS ?
a 12 yo?
 +7 / -0
Divergent
Divergent a day ago

Well, I would say good for him! (unless his parents force him back in)
 +5 / -0
Landy
Landy a day ago
If that's true then it verges on child abuse.
 +21 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein a day ago

I would define that as child abuse.
Give social services a call, they might be willing to investigate once they what is going to happened to the lad.
Fucking pricks  sorry for the language

 +19 / -0
crazy_flickering_light
crazy_flickering_light a day ago

12yo? Crazy.
And 13 df? What a crazy cong. Looks like a group of lovely elders run the cong.
 +5 / -1
fukitol
fukitol a day ago

I don't believe it.
Poopie has been known to drop a few poopies on this forum then disappear.

 +5 / -0
Calebs Airplane
Calebs Airplane a day ago
If this is true, the emotional scars will probably never heal. Sick cult.
 +2 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 a day ago

Did the child stay up past his bedtime? Or did he refuse to obey his parents and eat his vegetables?
Wow!
The guilt that will now mould his personality growth is going to ruin him as he develops!
 +4 / -0
Slidin Fast
Slidin Fast a day ago
What's the story poople? It would be good to have some details. Hard to believe otherwise.
 +5 / -0
punkofnice
punkofnice a day ago
Let's find out some details, then we can hold this up as an example of child abuse (without naming names, where possible, for the child's sake).
 
James Jack
James Jack a day ago
Provide more information
 
hoser
hoser a day ago

I know of a couple of cases like this. One girl was baptized at 12 and dfed at 14. She is now successfully faded.
Another man baptised at 11 or so. Dfed at 15. I think he is back in.
 
dubstepped
dubstepped a day ago

I've known of similar stories. "What a protection baptism is for our dear young ones.".
 +1 / -0
flipper
flipper a day ago

A 12 yr.old Dfed ? 13 people Dfed in 3 years ? I see the Nazi WT regime is alive and well in the congregations you know. Disgusting. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
 
Village Idiot
Village Idiot a day ago


What does a 12 year old do to get dfd?
I've known of 12 year olds getting disfellowshipped in my cong along with his 14 year old brother. I think it may have been drug, most probably marijuana, related.
The more their numbers are deflated the better.
 
blondie
blondie a day ago



*** dx86-12 Disfellowshipping ***
grounds: w98 3/15 22; w92 7/1 19; w89 9/15 18; w88 4/15 26-27; it-1 788
drunkenness: it-1 656
fornication: w06 7/15 29-30; it-1 863
gross uncleanness: w12 3/15 31; lv 137; w06 7/15 30-31
loose conduct: w06 7/15 30-31
pornography in certain cases: w12 3/15 31; w06 7/15 31
use of tobacco: w06 7/15 30-31; w95 5/15 23
http://jwfacts.mobi/disfellowshipping-and-shunning/disfellowshipping-watchtower-offences/
Associating with disfellowshipped people including;
◦Friends – ks91-E p.103, w81 9/15 pp.25-6, w55 10/1 p.607
◦Family – ks91-E p.103
◦
◦I have known teenagers disfellowshipped for all of the above, my contemporaries and since.
Add drugs to that
 
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange a day ago

I know of a 16 year old guy getting dunked and being DFd within a year. As far as I know, he never returned.
Unfortunately, I do not know enough about him or his family to say whether he is living a good & happy life as a former-JW. I hope he is.
Doc

 
Village Idiot
Village Idiot a day ago
There is a disproportionate number of youths that are disfellowshipped compared to adults. We were told that the reason for that was that they were more sexually active and inexperienced in hiding it.
 

«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
Simon
Doing the Right Thing, Making a Choice (shunning)
by Simon 5 months ago
OrphanCrow
Deaf Aotearoa flooded with complaints about Jehovah's Witness church
by OrphanCrow 5 months ago
Introvert 2
Worldly People
by Introvert 2 7 months ago
The Searcher
A First Stepping-Stone For Bethelites & Lurkers?
by The Searcher 6 months ago
dubstepped
Life After Disassociation (or really leaving by any means)
by dubstepped 19 days ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5666064541155328/another-12-yr-old-df-cong-13-people-df-3-yrs







Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Another 12 yr old df in cong 13 people df in 3 yrs
/  





 

Another 12 yr old df in cong 13 people df in 3 yrs
by poopie 2 days ago 33 Replies latest 12 hours ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20
punkofnice
punkofnice a day ago

I know of a young lad, nicked a car (GTA in the USA I hear), nothing happened to him on the congregation. He was protected from shunning because 90% of the elders were his family. He ran away to live elsewhere in the end.
DFing et al is all down to the desicion of the biggest bully in the congregation, mostly.
Let's review, it's a.....................................
 +1 / -0
No Longer a JW Brother
No Longer a JW Brother a day ago
I don't see the problem. Peace.

 
Lee Elder
Lee Elder a day ago
My wife wad disassociated when she was ten years old - no joke. That's back when unbaptized ones (DA) were to be treated the same as disfellowshipped ones. Now try and reconcile that with Watchtower's argument to the European Commission on Human Rights that minors can't become JW's. If you are baptized, you can be DF'd period. I was baptized at nine, as was my brother. Is it child abuse? Depends on your definition, and the rules the Watchtower attaches to it, but in my view, the answer is yes.

 +2 / -0
brandnew
brandnew a day ago
Wow....what did the kid do?
 
Lee Elder
Lee Elder a day ago
Keep asking questions like that and you may have a future sitting on judicial committees. :smile:

 
Barrold Bonds
Barrold Bonds a day ago
Lee Elder: Where can I read about this European Commission thing?
 
Lost and adrift
Lost and adrift  17 hours ago
My neice was df at 16...the brothers would drive past her and my sisters in the rain and not even give a lift. ..such love. ...she never came back. ..no wonder
 
problemaddict 2
problemaddict 2 17 hours ago
I call BS here. Officially and whatnot.

 
Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Billy the Ex-Bethelite 17 hours ago


What does a 12 year old do to get dfd?
Children have been known to brazenly engage in misconduct like buy ice cream with money that should be donated to Watchtower Corp. and play with Sparlock the Warrior Wizard toys.
These kids must be dfd to understand how much Hojovah (and his anointed GB) loves them.

 +4 / -0
OrphanCrow
OrphanCrow 15 hours ago

What does a 12 year old do to get dfd?
Report an elder for diddling with them.
 +2 / -0
smiddy
smiddy 15 hours ago

My 13 year old niece was put on probation for smoking a cig. 2 years later she was still on probation , they had forgotten all about her and her situation. Loving shepherds eh?
Of course she is now married and way out of the religion and bringing her 2 children up away from the cult.
I agree that baptizing children and then expecting them to make mature adult decisions and when they don`t to D.F. them ,along with the shunning , is nothing short of child abuse.
And they should be taken to task for it.
smiddy
 +1 / -0
Dunedain
Dunedain 14 hours ago

I think we can all agree, if this is a true story, that the problem here is that a 12 yr old was even baptized in the first place.
Honestly, without details, I find this hard to believe, but if it is, this is a horrible example of the abuse that the WTBS is capable of. Yet, still, due to lack of members, they push younger ones to get baptized younger and younger.
Its really criminal, at the end of the day. Expecting a CHILD to understand the meaning of a DEDICATION of ones life, is ridiculous. It would almost be comical, if it didn't hurt peoples lives.
Hypocrites, all of them at the top of this CULT.

 +2 / -0
steve2
steve2 13 hours ago

Poopie's true to form: Dropped a big poop and popped away while we add our own poopettes to the OP.
 +1 / -0
smiddy
smiddy 12 hours ago

Whether Poopie`s OP is valid or not , the responses it has generated shows their is a real problem with young people , some pre teens being baptized and the consequences that follow when they fall foul of the obligations that are expected of them at such a young age.Disfellowshipping and shunning .
Let`s focus on those issues as they are real .
smiddy
 +1 / -0

«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
wow



Related Topics
Simon
Doing the Right Thing, Making a Choice (shunning)
by Simon 5 months ago
OrphanCrow
Deaf Aotearoa flooded with complaints about Jehovah's Witness church
by OrphanCrow 5 months ago
Introvert 2
Worldly People
by Introvert 2 7 months ago
The Searcher
A First Stepping-Stone For Bethelites & Lurkers?
by The Searcher 6 months ago
dubstepped
Life After Disassociation (or really leaving by any means)
by dubstepped 19 days ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5666064541155328/another-12-yr-old-df-cong-13-people-df-3-yrs?page=2&size=20






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ My life as a fundamentalist
/  





 

My life as a fundamentalist
by joey jojo 8 hours ago 7 Replies latest 5 hours ago   jw experiences
5
10
20
joey jojo
joey jojo 8 hours ago

As a born-in JW, I never considered myself to be a fundamentalist. I always thought we were enlightened, progressive and not 'stuck in darkness' like all the other religions.
I was totally wrong.
As far as fundamentalists go, JW's are probably right up there amongst the front-runners. No, they do not stone people to death or go on religion-fuelled violent rampages but that's not what I'm talking about.
A fundamentalist believes the book they consider sacred as fact, in its entirety. As we know, JW's believe the bible to be infallible. They believe everything that is written in it actually happened and look to the bible (combined with their own interpretation) as the final word in any argument, be it scientific, moral, prophetic, whatever.
Why is this so dangerous?
It negates logic and reason. A fundamentalist is by definition an unreasonable, dogmatic person. He does not care about peer reviewed scientific discoveries if they disprove what he believes in, he regards them as joke. I have heard JW's mock excellent, caring medical doctors because they advocate using blood when needed in life-saving surgeries. Others may have 'read an article or two' about bloodless surgery and now feel qualified to judge these medical staff that have devoted most of their lives so far learning to save lives. This all comes about because of an unclear scripture in the old testament. This is just one example.
As JW's, everything we do, say and think is governed by someone else, we don't get to think for ourselves. We choose life paths for ourselves and our children based on this information.
All a fundamentalist has to do is believe the bible. That's it, case closed, argument over. If you disagree then you are an apostate. A scientist however does not have that luxury. he cannot just proclaim something to be true and expect everyone else to agree. Anything a researcher does is peer reviewed, challenged, debated in a search for the truth. A scientist must go where the evidence leads them, this is rational and logical.
I haven't been to a meeting in about 10 yrs. As a baptised dub, I really thought I knew a lot about the bible but over the last 10 years I have learned the most interesting stuff and I guess that is the point I am coming to.
Fundamentalists, like JW's, base their whole lives and those of their children on the bible because they assume it to be true but how much do we know about the bible? Here's some fun stuff I really want to share. Some of this has no doubt been covered on this website but some people may not have come across it yet. This is not a comprehensive list but hopefully it will be of interest to anyone who has just started searching for truth.
Jesus was not born of a virgin. Isa 7:14,the scripture that 'foretells' his birth of a virgin has nothing to do with Jesus. The word 'virgin' in Hebrew was mistranslated into greek and originally meant 'the young woman of marriageable age'. It applied to a young woman that was standing in the presence of the King Ahaz when Isaiah spoke the prophecy. She would give birth to a child named Immanuel that will still be young when the threat from the enemy kings had passed.
There is no archaeological evidence for Moses, Abraham, Isaac outside the bible.
There is no evidence outside the bible that there was an exodus of the Jews from Egypt.
There is little to no archaeological or historical evidence for David or Solomon living in the 10th century BCE.
How long is a creative day? I don't know and neither do the governing body, although it didn't stop them from telling us to preach that it was 7000 years to the whole world for decades. This has implications for end times prophecy and its what led to the 1975 debacle.
I wasn't going to mention Noahs flood but needless to say there is absolutely no geological evidence it happened. There is no physical evidence it happened. The ark has never been found. This is a topic that has its own threads on this website.
This is the tip of the iceberg. The point I am trying to make is that as dub, I swallowed all this without thought and because I was a fundamentalist, I looked down on anyone that didn't agree with me.
 +10 / -0
Joe Grundy
Joe Grundy 7 hours ago
Excellent OP, IMO. And appertains to all fundies (of all religions), not just dubs.

 +1 / -0
Anders Andersen
Anders Andersen 6 hours ago

Amen!
And there he was this Joey, a stranger to my eyes,
Strumming my pain with his fingers (one time),
Singing my life with his words (two times),
Killing me softly with his song,
Killing me softly with his song,
Telling my whole life with his words,
Killing me softly with his song
 +2 / -0
jookbeard
jookbeard 6 hours ago
good points, you are correct with putting the WTS up there as the frontrunners, they are responsible for a Jonestown tragedy and the WACO siege many many times over with the needless pointless unscriptural adherence to their medical prohibitions, a truly dangerous group.
 +1 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 6 hours ago

Joey all 100% right. 
It's amazing when you have the wool removed from your eyes what you are able to see.
Yet - all religions are Cults, it's just our type is one of the really bad ones since self determination is not allowed.
 +3 / -0
Half banana
Half banana 5 hours ago

Joey, you make some very good points including the danger of believing Watchtower dogma such as not having blood transfusions.
It's a smug and deluded life you lead if you are a JW.
What I am thinking now is regarding the whole matter of Christian belief; that it should still exist at all! And with such respect by both people and politicians and go unchallenged in this age of instant internet information. A serious secular study on the origins of the Bible easily exposes its unholy fusion of pagan belief masquerading as divine light.
The premises on which religious belief is drawn are intellectually indefensible. Yet religious culture is proving to be a very large sea-going tanker which will take time and distance to turn around. Better if it sank!
By passive acceptance and respect for this childish mode of thinking and living we are also enshrining the right to religious fundamentalism and will reap a whirlwind from it.
It would be possible to recognize that the religious stories are just moralising folk tales and be done with them, existing as part of our collective heritage. Yet to do so ignores the existence of beliefs which radicalise religion by taking the text as sacred and inerrant and killing others as part of divine worship.
If governments were to sanction fundamentalists blind, emotive and socially pressured injunction to conform, it would make a for a formidable army of holy warriors to be waged against the unbelievers as is happening inside Islam notably in Iraq with ISIS. This political dimension of religious belief is a significant threat to all of us. It is religious idealism placed above the value of human life...as with JWs and blood transfusion.
Fortunately in the West, especially in western Europe, democracy has generally pushed religious imperatives into the background and religious "belief" as of the 21st century is statistically on the wane even in USA.
To be a Jehovah's Witness is to be radicalized.
Even though not overtly political, (from the GB's perspective it most certainly is political in the sense of controlling eight million followers) the JW permits his or her brain to be 'rewired' to conform to the cult mentality. It is a similar process for all fundamentalists; a blind hope in a supernatural resolution to human problems.
Belief in holy books and their interpreters is not only ignorant and naive but very dangerous.
 +3 / -0
Joe Grundy
Joe Grundy 5 hours ago

I never was a dub. I was brought up in the Open Brethren (as fundie as they come) and as I got older and more enquiring (pre-internet days) this was an issue which troubled me and has intrigued me ever since.
The question was: how can intelligent and enquiring minds blindly accept stuff for which there is no evidence, and stuff which the available evidence disproves?
I apply this to my own late father. He was a very senior Inland Revenue Inspector, whose work depended on evidence, law, etc. He had an extremely forensic mind and was well-respected in his field. And yet, he accepted (at least outwardly) so much stuff religiously that was increasingly unproved, unproveable and unlikely. I noticed as he got older (and in retrospect this feeling is strengthened) that he avoided discussion of religious stuff and I believe that he came to increasingly disbelieve stuff. I believe that he was able to separate his religious beliefs from his 'everyday' life - and I think that this caused him some pain as he got older.
The amount of information available to anyone with access to the internet and sources has increased exponentially. That's why some religions fight it. Fundies can no longer bask unchallenged in 'knowledge' confirmed by selected books.
I sometimes consider asking for a JW 'bible study' - starting from the origins of the OT. They wouldn't/couldn't do it, so I disabuse myself of that idea fairly quickly.

 +3 / -0
Sail Away
Sail Away 5 hours ago

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_s_ss_i_0_12?k=leaving+the+fold&sprefix=leaving+the+
I read the book entitled, Leaving the Fold after I walked away. It opened my eyes. Yes, JWs are absolutely fundamentalists.
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
stephanie61092
Finally posting and I'm FRUSTRATED!!!
by stephanie61092 2 months ago
Tenacious
Jehovah's Witness Teens 13 and 10 Commit Suicide in Wisconsin
by Tenacious 14 days ago
MarkofCane
New here
by MarkofCane 2 months ago
Freeandclear
My Story
by Freeandclear 2 months ago
The Hermit
The Hermit's story PART 2
by The Hermit 2 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5744219121516544/my-life-fundamentalist





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Do you know what Rahab looked like?
/  





 

Do you know what Rahab looked like?
by ttdtt 21 hours ago 20 Replies latest 6 hours ago   watchtower bible
«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20
ttdtt
ttdtt 21 hours ago

Hello Friends - here is a new area in the Kids section of the JW website - Learn how to draw Rahab.
1st - She was a prostitute of Jericho. Could there be other characters to talk about with our kids?
2nd - It says "learn how to draw Rahab". Excuse me, but do we have any photos of Rahab? Do we know what she looked like?
3rd - The drawing below looks like a Disney character. -- I don't think Rahab would have looked like that.
4th - Where did she get that hairstyle, and who is her stylist?






 +4 / -0
Londo111
Londo111 21 hours ago

I remembered during the book study and Watchtower study, adults would elaborate on drawings of Bible characters: "Looking at the picture, Festus was..."
Never mind these weren't photographs.
 +5 / -0
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 21 hours ago

Rahab, Jael, Jezebel, there are just sooooo many great female role model/stereotypes in the Bible to choose from where do you start.
 +8 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 21 hours ago

London111 - YES - it happens all the time, as if they were real photographs of real people!
And the stories people make up when talking about them - OMG! It is so saddening that so many treat them like more than just illustration.
AND!!! Why are all ancient people in JW media of all types ALWAYS SO WELL DRESSED AND GROOMED!
These are people who had NO scissors to cut hair, and almost NEVER bathed, and were in dust ALL THE TIME!
Today they would not allow Rahab in the Kingdom Hall!


 +6 / -1
ttdtt
ttdtt 21 hours ago
Sparrowdown - you would think with us playing up those "great female role models" we would be a Pro Sex organization, but we are not:)
 +4 / -0
Alive!
Alive! 21 hours ago

What idiotic stuff.
Why not draw Mary? Deborah the judge!!!
You know why they elevate Rahab ( she comes up a lot in various WT studies) ?
In the original story, she used subterfuge to protect certain Israelites - JW.org want to imprint on children's minds - that subterfuge is good, if it protects their people.
Ancient scriptures such as Rahab are accounts, not examples to follow of living.
 +6 / -0
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 21 hours ago
In next months issue learn how to drive a tent peg through a man's temple with the game Fun with Jael a woman of murderous rage.
 +8 / -1
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 20 hours ago

Then maybe we can draw Lot and his incestuous daughters?
Or play a game that teaches kids just how Abraham attempted to kill and burn his son.
Thats "wholesome family values" right there!
 +3 / -0
DJS
DJS 20 hours ago

What Rehab looks like



Ohhhh. You said Rahab.

Never mind.

 +15 / -0
Slidin Fast
Slidin Fast 18 hours ago

Rehab the Harlot. Come on lads, somebody must be able to draw a lady of the night. How about a nice artistic drawing of a suitably (un) dressed woman showing her wares. Then get the kids at the KH to copy it, tits and all.
 +3 / -0
ctrwtf
ctrwtf 17 hours ago

Hey Kids, let's draw a picture of a hooker!
That picture reminds me of the old gag, would you like to have roses on your piano? Or tulips on your organ?
 +1 / -0
Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Billy the Ex-Bethelite 17 hours ago



I think Rahab is the one on the right with the cigarette.

 +4 / -0
Island Man
Island Man 14 hours ago
Here's a fun fact: Rahab means "sit still". I guess she just sat still and let her clients do all the work.

 +2 / -0
MrsR-Awaken
MrsR-Awaken 13 hours ago

According to Google this is how she looked like lol

 +2 / -0
smiddy
smiddy 13 hours ago

sparrowdown
Don`t forget Delilah , she was a great female role model wasn`t she .?
smiddy
 +1 / -0
JRK
JRK 13 hours ago

Another version:



 +1 / -0
Muddy Waters
Muddy Waters 12 hours ago

Funny, she has a Wilma Flintstone necklace, and Judy Jetson garments (cute little lapel things on her shoulders), and a Jetson/Flintstone/Alladin style haircut ... a huge mouth with giant teeth.... and no body below her neck and shoulders.
....
And very good point, Alive!, about why the WT always uses Rahab as an example! Most interesting, as they always made such a big deal about her, and she was a prostitute and a liar! When I first started studying, I felt it was odd the way they used her and other characters in the bible .... but repetition and mind numbing meetings made it all right after all.
 +1 / -0
ZAPPA-ESQUE
ZAPPA-ESQUE 12 hours ago

DJS........the discussion is Rahab ...not Rehab ! [lol]

&feature=player_detailpage#t=25
 
OnTheWayOut
OnTheWayOut 12 hours ago

Don't forget to teach the kids how to draw Mohammed.


 +3 / -0
jhine
jhine 10 hours ago

I've noticed this when l sit in on my friend's study . The JW ladies go through the script and then say " look here's a picture of Moses with the Tablets " as if it is an actual picture of this . The pictures still unsettle me , something odd about them .
Jan
 +1 / -0

«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
Garrett
A friend
by Garrett a month ago
Mark Zyche
How many of you actually KNOW the bible OR God???
by Mark Zyche 2 months ago
darth frosty
SEVEN Types Of Women Pastors Should Watch Out For In Ministry!
by darth frosty 2 months ago
Gorbatchov
2002 radio interview with J.R. Brown, spokesman of WTBTS (The God Show)
by Gorbatchov 2 months ago
Diogenesister
Bill Bowens letter / circumstantial evidence hypocracy
by Diogenesister 3 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5655759975088128/do-you-know-what-rahab-looked-like






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Do you know what Rahab looked like?
/  





 

Do you know what Rahab looked like?
by ttdtt 21 hours ago 20 Replies latest 6 hours ago   watchtower bible
«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20
WingCommander
WingCommander 6 hours ago

I just clicked on this thread for Bitties, and from the photo above from Mrs R-Awaken, I was not disappointed!
Noice!

 

«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
hello friends - here is a new area in the kids section of the jw website - learn how to draw rahab.. 1st - she was a prostitute of jericho.
could there be other characters to talk about with our kids?.
2nd - it says "learn how to draw rahab".



Related Topics
Garrett
A friend
by Garrett a month ago
Mark Zyche
How many of you actually KNOW the bible OR God???
by Mark Zyche 2 months ago
darth frosty
SEVEN Types Of Women Pastors Should Watch Out For In Ministry!
by darth frosty 2 months ago
Gorbatchov
2002 radio interview with J.R. Brown, spokesman of WTBTS (The God Show)
by Gorbatchov 2 months ago
Diogenesister
Bill Bowens letter / circumstantial evidence hypocracy
by Diogenesister 3 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5655759975088128/do-you-know-what-rahab-looked-like?page=2&size=20






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ lf the paradise earth is real would you want to live there?
/  





 

lf the paradise earth is real would you want to live there?
by atomant 12 hours ago 14 Replies latest an hour ago   watchtower beliefs
5
10
20
atomant
atomant 12 hours ago
l know l would.Anyone that says no is kidding themselves.Just imagine going up to the hole of a cobra and patting it on the head like a pet.Or running like a deer through the woods.Who knows we might grows wings and be able to fly as well.Food for thought.

 +0 / -3
Wild_Thing
Wild_Thing 12 hours ago

No. Because if it's real, it must mean that only Jehovah's Witnesses will be here and I could never live on Earth with only those people.
Besides, it defies nature. Name one thing in the Universe that lives forever. Everything dies. It's how we were made (or created).
 +5 / -0
LostGeneration
LostGeneration 12 hours ago

And live with the constant threat of execution over your head 24/7? No thanks.
The problem with paradise earth as taught by JWs is that the second free will is exercised outside of the rules, you will be killed. Not really paradise in my opinion.
 +9 / -0
cofty
cofty 10 hours ago

It would be like living in North Korea.
I have too much respect for animals to want them to exist for my amusement.
 +3 / -0
atomant
atomant 9 hours ago
Not only that but any special relationships built with any animal will be short lived as the animal will die causing grief.sorrow and tears.

 
2+2=5
2+2=5 9 hours ago

Just imagine going up to the hole of a cobra and patting it on the head like a pet

Mmmmm imagine..... Yep you're right. A few trillion years would fly by with excitement like that.
Or running like a deer through the woods

I do that now, no need to wait for the paradise. To be honest, it gets boring quick.
Who knows we might grows wings and be able to fly as well.Food for thought

Who knows? Perhaps we will grow gills on our necks above our wings so we could swim with sharks in the deep ocean! Thanks for the mental stimulation.
 +1 / -0
Joe Grundy
Joe Grundy 9 hours ago
To be honest, living in a world where unatural relationships with animals are encouraged holds little attraction for me, but each to his own. I can foresee problems when someone wants to pet someone else's panda, though.

 +2 / -0
zeb
zeb 8 hours ago

a world without crime. where the environment takes a high priority, where deserts are replanted, where learning is for all. No fossil fuel based power grids but solar, wind or tidal. No cancer. Where kids run free and anyone can welcome them in to safety and the world abounds in fine music.
Thus is my dream.
 +1 / -0
stillin
stillin 8 hours ago

I can see how it could be nice. If Jehovah's Witnesses are there, maybe they will have toned it down several notches. Maybe the rigid organizational, institutionalized form of religion will be gone and, once that garbage is cleared out of my head, who knows? maybe people actually are capable of some sort of communion with a Higher Power!
I think I wouldn't mind seeing that. There is so much natural beauty in the world that, if there is to be a "God" defending "His" creation, it seems that "He" would be a friendly sort.
 +1 / -0
sir82
sir82 8 hours ago

It would be fine for a while, maybe a long while, but in the end, it would become tedium.
Eternity is a lo-o-o-o-o-o-ong time, and the earth is finite.
I think I'd enjoy it for a few millennia, then I'd want to explore something else.

 +1 / -0
Hadriel
Hadriel 8 hours ago

..only one problem "paradise on earth" "paradise of earth" etc doesn't exist in the bible. not one single scripture.
"paradise of heaven" yep that's that there speaking of the 3rd heaven or when Jesus tells the evil doing he'll be with him in heaven, but earth? No, that simply isn't in the bible.
Ask a witness to find paradise on earth in the bible and watch the lightbulb go off when they try to find it.
 +4 / -0
mrquik
mrquik 5 hours ago
Even as a Witness, I believed they were short sighted to assume we wouldn't populate the galaxy. Even today, we have that desire to explore. I'll be on that planet covered in warm ocean water with tropical islands. I'll have a bar there; "MRQUIKS". You're all welcome.....
 +2 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 5 hours ago
The very concept raises MORE questions and issues that it does answers or solutions....
 +1 / -0
TipsyMangoTea
TipsyMangoTea 3 hours ago

mrquik Make sure to be within lightyear-distance from the Restaurant at the End of the Universe, and I'll be a regular patron. :wink:*
I really, really, really want to be alive for intergalactic exploration. Between living forever on one planet vs having a limited lifespan but with the chance to go up in outer space, sign me up, space cowboy!
 +1 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW an hour ago


lf the paradise earth is real would you want to live there?..
We have to Remember the entire Watchtower Fable.....It`s a Watchtower Paradise..
The real WatchTower World is a Shit Hole..
WatchTower Paradise Would Be.......A WatchTower Shit Hole x Eternity..
.
.....................................Welcome To..
.........................WATCHTOWER PARADISE..

............Image result for Hell
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
Gorbatchov
2002 radio interview with J.R. Brown, spokesman of WTBTS (The God Show)
by Gorbatchov 2 months ago
Garrett
A friend
by Garrett a month ago
Dogpatch
"How Awful This Place Can Be!" Life at Bethel by Keith Casarona
by Dogpatch 5 years ago
darth frosty
SEVEN Types Of Women Pastors Should Watch Out For In Ministry!
by darth frosty 2 months ago
HB
Time Machine
by HB a month ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5685944199938048/lf-paradise-earth-real-would-you-want-live-there





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Jehovah`s Witnesses an Old Testament Religion
/  





 

Jehovah`s Witnesses an Old Testament Religion
by smiddy 10 hours ago 11 Replies latest 3 hours ago   watchtower bible
5
10
20
smiddy
smiddy 10 hours ago

Jehovah`s Witnesses claim to be a Christian Religion , however looking at their history , publications ,such as the Watchtower and Awake mags., their Conventions ,International ,regional ,Local ,etc.their books pamphlets ,brochures ,etc.etc. you are hard pressed to find references to the New Testament and references to Jesus and his ministry .
They seem to be more focused on the Old Testament , and the GOD of the old testament.Jehovah
Even in their Dramas at Conventions , international and local events they are pre-occupied with Old Testament accounts and experiences , and not Christian experiences , examples or ,lives to emulate .
They claim to be a Christian Religion and very seldom do they highlight the name of JESUS , or his teachings , they are fixed on the Old Testament name of Jehovah , and what he did in the Old Testament. Jehovah a name Christendom invented.around the thirteenth Century., and J.W.`s adopted for their religion.
The general feeling is the old testament GOD is a bloodthirsty God of war, an avenging God.
The general feeling in the New testament of Jesus is a God of love and forgiveness .
And Jehovah`s Witnesses choose to back the GOD of the Old Testament against JESUS
smiddy
 +7 / -0
Heartsafire
Heartsafire 9 hours ago

Smiddy, I too have always been baffled by the unyielding hyper-focus on OT especially when it comes to Jewish laws that somehow correspond with what WT wants people to do.
Years ago I began to wonder why we never talked about worshipping Christ if we claim to be Christians. I read in the now out of print reasoning book that it is okay to worship Christ, yet that point is never discussed from the KH platform in depth, but of course, Jesus is just an angel, remember? Ugh.
The org is neither Christian nor following Jewish law as it was intended to be followed. It's a weird conglomeration of a controlling business that poses as religion and interprets scripture however the GB wishes.
 +2 / -0
crazy_flickering_light
crazy_flickering_light 8 hours ago

The old testament based on fear, death and a leader on earth.
The new testament based on love, brotherhood and a leader in heaven who give you not much rules.
So, if you try to build up a hi-control pseudo-religion, based on fear, you have to use the old testament.
 +2 / -0
zeb
zeb 8 hours ago
I too have wondered this over the years. CFL you have it in one.
 
stillin
stillin 8 hours ago
Of course, the defense of this stance regarding "keeping Jehovah first" is grounded in the EXAMPLE of Jesus Christ. But they cherry-pick around Jeaus' life and ministry to the extent that he becomes a very distant second -placer, almost irrelevant.
 +1 / -0
Morning Warship
Morning Warship 8 hours ago
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the OT and the NT were written by two completely different groups of people. Either that or Jehovah and Jesus are psychopaths.

 
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 6 hours ago

The WTBTS doesn't even believe in using the terms "Old Testament" and "New Testament." They have written specific articles about why saying "New Testament" stems from "False Religion." ( The same Commentaries which provide the GB with much of their nu-light. )
They love the Tabernacle/Temple/Mosaic Law system so much, that they would go back in time if they could. When the Bible speaks of people who prefer the Law over God's Grace, ( not "undeserved kindness" ) it's speaking of religions like JWs. Organized, Legalistic, misogynist, vengeful, self-loathing, insular religions dream of the Old Testament every night, wondering how they can re-create the Communist State of ancient Israel.
DD
 +2 / -0
nowwhat?
nowwhat? 5 hours ago
That's why I was pleasently surprised they had the imitate Jesus convention last year. Now they are back to loyalty to Jehovah (GB) for this year.
 
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 5 hours ago

"Imitate Jesus" was just for show. They wanted say, "See? We're Xians! We made one Jesus movie, starring Jesus Van Der Beek, and it only took 100 years to produce it!"
Now it's time for the R&F to STFU, contribute and worship the SLAVE.
DD
 +1 / -0
LoveUniHateExams
LoveUniHateExams 5 hours ago

Members of the GB following Jesus?
Evidently, the GB is better than Jesus. 
 
tor1500
tor1500 3 hours ago

Hi All,
The general feeling is the old testament GOD is a bloodthirsty God of war, an avenging God.
The general feeling in the New testament of Jesus is a God of love and forgiveness
You know why? See these two points I've copied & pasted....This is who they are...they are bloodthirsty, and vengeful. They love to DF, to shun, all the ways in the OT, appeals to them...The NT is about love & they have to learn that, because it's not in them...I've spoken to a few folks that are not JW's & they say, They love the fact that they DF folks when they do something wrong & want to keep the congregation clean....BS. If you want to keep the congregation clean, you'd have to clean out the entire org. At the core of most witnesses is a mean spirit. Anyone who wants God to destroy folks because they won't listen to them, that tells you who they really are.
Many of them can't identify with love....they never came from a loving home, so that's why they really can't get the NT. They talk about love, but they don't have it. From what I observed, parents are good JW's, but not loving parents...they are about rules & regulation (again, that's why they love the OT). They make sure they feed them, clothe them, roof over their head but much rather their kids be servants of Jehovah then them actually nurturing them...I watch them at the hall. They stare at their kids, make sure they sit straight, don't fall asleep, & paying attention....& it looks could kill their kids would be dead. Oh yes, make sure they raise their hands to comment.
They don't a clue how to imitate Jesus....even though their are no more sacrifices, if God brought them back, the JW's would be the first to do it...they love to sacrifice when it is seen. They do nothing unless it's seen or counted.
They feel that they have to bring back the name of God...that's their main objective...good works, faith, all on the back burner.
It's funny someone brought up this topic, a sister that just got baptized a year ago, brought up this same point to me...she said, I think they dwell in the OT too much...Life is beautiful, nothing like the OT...she was too new for me to say anything..I just told her to pay attention...& remember, you don't serve man...
Witnesses are afraid to imitate Jesus, means they would have to come out of their comfort zone of a mean spirit, which is the core of most of them.
I know about it first hand...believe me...I see it all. I could go on...but won't.
Tor
 
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 3 hours ago

To the greater god comes the greater power .

Organized, Legalistic, misogynist, vengeful, self-loathing, insular religions dream of the Old Testament every night, wondering how they can re-create the Communist State of ancient Israel.
Well said Data Dog

I think some of this theological adherence goes right back to C T Russell's teachings as a Zionist who was supposedly decoding the greater god's will and purpose for all mankind.
Those other faiths in Christendom focus their worship onto Jesus. the lower god, or as "The God" incorrectly.

True worship should be directed to Jehovah and not his son.

 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
AndersonsInfo
Another Trey Bundy Article on Reveal: "Jehovah’s Witnesses leaders say they don’t protect sexual abusers"
by AndersonsInfo 3 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo a month ago
AndersonsInfo
Article: "Why God Won't Go Away" (Contains an example of a JW) An excellent read!
by AndersonsInfo a month ago
OrphanCrow
Two Jehovah's Witnesses congregations abolished by courts - Russia
by OrphanCrow a month ago
Watchtower-Free
Jehovah’s Witnesses Respond to How They’ve Failed Child Sex Abuse Victims With a Call For … Lawyers and Accountants
by Watchtower-Free 4 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5745807286337536/jehovah-witnesses-old-testament-religion





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ The Watch Tower's creation of 1914 CE
/  





 

The Watch Tower's creation of 1914 CE
by Doug Mason 20 hours ago 4 Replies latest 18 hours ago   watchtower bible
5
10
20
Doug Mason
Doug Mason 20 hours ago

Download this summary of the Watch Tower Society and its 607/1914 debacle and view it on a (16:9) computer screen.
http://www.jwstudies.com/The_Watch_Tower_s_creation_of_1914_CE.pdf
 
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 20 hours ago

The men who started and immersed themselves into this religious publishing house did so with self conniving deception, particularly when its realized when Jesus admonishing his true devoted faithful followers to not make a time on God's own sacred time.

From that point on the WTS were subjectively apostate and disobedient to Jesus Christ and to God.

Religious charlatanism is a freewheeling unregulated game to play in the United States, the men who were involved with the WTS were well aware of that fact. These opportunistic men played the game to their own liking and designed and built up their own imposing power around themselves by the literature they wrote and published.

 
Atlantis
Atlantis 20 hours ago

Doug Mason:
.
Thank you!
Atlantis!
 
Wild_Thing
Wild_Thing 19 hours ago
I never understood the whole Jesus started ruling in 1914 thing. I always thought ... you mean he is ruling and he is just LETTING Satan and the demons do horrible things to us? Wow! Be a king and do something! Can we impeach him or something? It just never made sense.
 
Magnum
Magnum 18 hours ago
Thanks, Doug. I really appreciate all your efforts and all the stuff you post here. Just saved a copy of the pdf.
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
glenster
Films from the last half century or so with 100% on Rotten Tomatoes and on YouTube
by glenster 2 months ago
MacHislopp
Scrutinizing the teaching of Jesus Christ year 1874 vs 1914
by MacHislopp 5 months ago
blondie
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 10-11-2015 WT Study (EXPECTATION)
by blondie 5 months ago
Dunedain
What were Satan and his demons "doing" up in heaven, before being "cast down" in 1914?
by Dunedain 4 months ago
glenster
Mvie night
by glenster 3 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5662952434696192/watch-towers-creation-1914-ce






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Comparison of Mormonism and JWism
/  





 

Comparison of Mormonism and JWism
by alex 15 years ago 32 Replies latest 13 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20
alex
alex 15 years ago


I'm thinking that the mind-control games are very very very very much the same between Mormonism and JWism. I've lurked here for a while and thought I'd introduce myself.
My name is Alex and I'm an unbelieving Mormon who lives in Utah. I used to be very active. I served a 2 year mission. I was a Bishop's counselor and I know the organization very well and several friends of mine have fathers who are in the Mormon equivalent of the "Governing Body". Then about 15 months ago I discovered that the Book of Mormon is fiction and that unraveled my faith. I then discovered many other issues which also didn't make any sense except to say that Mormonism is a manmade organization. Now I consider Mormonism to be a dangerous mind-controlling organization and I want to get out. But for the moment I'm a closet doubter until I have the courage to break free from the chains of Mormonism.
I would like to find out what you all think and how your organization is structured because you exJWs have such a similar story to us exMormons. How did we all get stuck in a mind-controlling organization? Fortunately I'm still young and able to break away. Its got to be hard on those who are much older.
If you ever have any questions about the real scoop on Mormonism but you don't want to offend Mormon friends, co-workers or the missionaries then please let me know. All of my family is still in the religion and its been very difficult for me. They believe that I have rejected God and that I'll be damned because I've given in to Satan. I still try to live a good life but they'll never accept this as long as I don't once again become a true believer in Mormonism.
I'm curious to know how the JW organization is organized. I see alot of abbreviations I don't understand. What is the Borg? Bethel? GB? CO? DC? DFed? etc.
I'm confident that I can pretty much get you answers to any questions you might have in Mormonism. I was just as much into it as all of you seem to have been in JWism so I hope you'd consider me a reliable source of information. But I wouldn't blame you if you don't trust me. I have a hard time trusting anybody now that I've gotten informed that my religious leaders were liars. I'm glad for the internet message board at exmormon.org because those people there really helped me get through this difficult journey. The Mormon church leadership is scared about the Internet because it allows for members to communicate with each other about their real questions since the Church makes it very uncomfortable for members to ask any questions.
 
Gopher
Gopher 15 years ago


Alex,
Hello and thanks for posting. My only exposure to Mormons was when I went to a Witness convention held in Salt Lake City in 1974. Our family took a tour of the Mormon tabernacle, I can't remember why. But I do remember how unusually friendly people were as we walked through the city.
I was, you could say, born into the JW organization, and left last year at age 39. I thought it was the "only true way" to God. Our exposure to other belief systems was always in a negative context.
To answer some of your questions: What is the Borg? Bethel? GB? CO? DC? DFed? etc.
The Borg is the nickname we "outsiders" give to the organization of the Watch Tower Society, headquartered in Brooklyn, New York. Borg = Brooklyn org.
Bethel = Any of the many branch offices around the world where volunteers live to support the printing work and the oversight of the work JW's do in various places around the world. There are slightly over 100 branch offices of the WTS worldwide.
GB = The Governing Body, the supreme decision-making council of Jehovah's Witnesses.
CO = Circuit Overseer, a travelling representative of the WTS whose area usually encompasses about 20 congregations. They visit each congregation about twice per year to share in the door to door ministry with the locals, to give talks, to help with congregational matters, and to make sure the local congregation is doing things the way the central WTS wants them to.
DC = District Convention. Held once per year in hundreds of locations around the globe, usually in the summertime, this 3-day congress of the Witnesses is a long set of talks, demonstrations, skits, singing. Through the convention, the organization tries to instruct and encourage the JW's.
DF = Disfellowshipping, the JW way of excommunication. If "serious" wrongdoing is reported to the elders, a committee of 3 elders will meet in secret with the individual to try to determine the wrongdoing and to try to set the sinner straight, or so they say. It can be for violating Bible law, or for having or discussing doubts about JW doctrine. The DF'ing penalty is very harsh, for every JW is expected to shun the disfellowshipped one. Even close family will treat the DF'd one quite differently. If a baptized JW no longer wants to be a Witness, they can disassociate (DA) themselves by writing a letter to the body of elders in their congregation.
Hope some of this helps. There is a lot to know about this group and their rules and regulations.
Feel free to post more, ask more questions. Welcome to our board.

GopherEven if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there.
 Will Rogers (1879-1935) 
 
Mulan
Mulan 15 years ago


(some of this is also posted on philo's thread)
Welcome, Alex.
The Borg: I always thought we said that because the dubs are so much like the Borg, on Star Trek the next generation.  You know, a continuem, of mindless robots, going through the motions of life. But, I see the connection with what Gopher said too. "Brooklyn Org."
About a year after I left the JW's, I went to work at a scrapbook store, owned and run by a Mormon family. Most of the employees were also Mormons, and about 8 months into my job, I quit, realizing I would never really be accepted there, and anything that went wrong had to be MY fault because it couldn't be one of their own. I just got sick of being blamed for things I hadn't done, and "kissing the owner's butt" everytime she walked into the store.
Anyway, shortly after I started there, they found out I was an ex JW, and were all very interested in what had happened. They were licking their chops, I'm sure, thinking I would now join them. I assured them I was NOT looking for another place to go, but they kept at me. I would stress things that I knew they believed too, as being reasons for my leaving, like "they are the only true religion" and other things.
I learned during that time, that they do drink caffeinated beverages, like Coke, and Mr. Pibb, and that coffee, the EVIL drink, has "many other bad things in it than just caffeine." I had to stifle a laugh. I asked about missionaries and why those 19 year old guys are called Elders. Not a satisfactory answer.
At this time, there are two Mormon missionaries living next door to my cousin, in an nice apartment building. I see them arriving home quite often, and they are really nice young boys. They drive a very nice car, with bicycles on the back. I about died laughing the first time I saw that. They are obviously fellows with rich family, but still have to give the impression of being poor, by using the bikes.
It's all nonsense. All religions are the same, with different weirdness in each. But all ultimately have the same ends, I think. The people can be good, and they can be crummy. It's the hearts that matter.
Marilyn (a.k.a. Mulan)
 
alex
alex 15 years ago


Thanks for the info.
OK so the BORG is headquartered in Brooklyn, NY. Who are the members of the Governing Board? How does someone become a member of the Governing Board? Elected? Chosen by the GB themselves? Who are the members? Where can I read their biographies?
How are the 100 Bethels organized? Can I find a list of them online?
How many circuit overseers? Are they paid full-time workers? part-time slaves? How are they chosen? What is their relation to the branch offices? Do you have branch office overseers?
What do you call your congregations? We call them Wards in Mormonism and they usually have 600-800 members and they are headed up by three men called the Bishopric (a bishop and his 2 counselors). Who presides over the congregations? A group of Elders? How are they chosen?
What does a person have to do to become an Elder, Pioneer, CO or member of the GB? Rank is so important in Mormonism. My family thought so much of me when I became a Bishop's counselor at age 27. They thought that surely I'd rise up in the ranks of Mormon leadership. But alas I learned the truth and really don't plan on living a lie my whole life.
Don't get me wrong. Mormons are good people generally. Don't take my word on my criticisms of their faith. Find out for yourself. I say this because there still is a little fear in me that I'll burn in hell for speaking bad things about the Mormon leaders since I used to firmly believe that they were God's official witnesses on earth. I still have this little fear in me that "Rejecting Mormonism"="Rejecting God" and its hard to describe how painful such an idea can be.
 
Gopher
Gopher 15 years ago


Alex,
Here's a link to biographical information about the Governing Body. There has been a reorganization in the last year, resulting in the Governing Body losing almost all their power. It's a little difficult for me to explain, maybe someone else can explain it better. Anyhow, here's the link: * http://geocities.com/osarsif/gb.htm
I don't have time right now to answer all your questions, but I'll take on your questions about the congregations. They are simply called congregations, and the buildings where JW's gather are Kingdom Halls. Each congregation has a body of elders. New elders are appointed after being recommended by the local body of elders in conjunction with the travelling (circuit) overseer. The organization tries to keep the congregations under 150 members in size. Of course there are many small-town congregations with as few as 20 members.
I believe what you say about Mormons being good people. I found my visit to Salt Lake City very pleasant. Some aspects of the Mormon doctrine have been scrutinized and criticized in Watchtower literature, so we have had some exposure to some aspects of LDS doctrine.
You expressed the idea that rejecting one's former faith leads to anxiety about whether God approves of you or not. This is something a lot of us have had to deal with upon leaving JW's as well. The indoctrination and fear-based approaches are similar between the two groups. After a while many of us have come to the realization that if there is a God, he would not be so unreasonable as to force us to believe a bunch of nonsense or else condemn us! It's better to remove oneself from the nonsense, and then sometimes one's relationship with God (if they choose to cultivate one) is even better than before.
GopherEven if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there.
 Will Rogers (1879-1935) 
 
ianao
ianao 15 years ago


Hello 'yall.
Check this out... http://www.exmormon.org/tract2.htm
 
seven006
seven006 15 years ago


Hi Alex,
I'm the exJW guy (Dave) who popped into the exMorman site yesterday and received a hearty welcome.
The people on that board are great. I posted there because I noticed from a little reading the similarities
in the psychological fallout resulting from leaving both religions. The ex-Jws have a higher price to pay
for leaving because of the shunning of all family members and friends that they had while in the religion.
I see by the few boards that I participate on that the ex-Jws also show a lot more anger in relation to
the position the religion puts them in because of the virtual kidnapping of family and friends. It is
like a reverse prison sentence, they view us as the religious criminals and they lock up our loved ones
to protect them from us.
In both religions the fuel that keeps the motor running is complete obedience by the way of total mind control.
The psychological damage resulting in one who opens their eyes and becomes honest with themselves thus rejecting a life long belief system
is similar in both religions. The teachings themselves are miles apart but the process in which each gain control of their
members hearts, minds, and souls are very similar. As long as you give any organization or group the power to control your
perception of happiness in relation to what is proper and improper behavior you will never have the self-reliance to question rules
that will open your eyes to the dangerous teachings.
The bible which is the main rule book for most cults is interpreted in as many ways as it is translated. Being a book that is
subject to individual interpretation it becomes the secret weapon to destroy any and all personal thought outside the religion that professes to
have the absolute correct interpretation of its content. I see this tactic being used in both religions. Because of this little trick, the outcome
in the way of seeing life after using your own brain to reject such teaching results in similar feelings and experiences.
exMormans and ex-Jws have a lot in common in relation to life after religion. I can see in may instances where both groups
could benefit from mutual discussions and exchange of feelings and experiences. I look at it as we have both jumped out of different
windows of the same sinking ship. I think the mindsets are pretty much the same, "we got duped". If we can help each other and make a few new friends along the way then it makes the decision we made a lot easier to deal with. Especially since we don't have to share our coke's and Pepsi's with you guys.
If you stick around this site I think you will find it a lot rowdier than the exMormans site. There are more cowboys and indians on this site
and a good portion of the time they don't play nice. It makes for some good "R" rated entertainment.
Nice to meet you Alex and I hope you get all your questions answered. I myself hate talking about the JW details, I come here for the laughs.
Dave
 
JUSTAMOM
JUSTAMOM 15 years ago


Hello and welcome
Yes I too was raised in the Wt all my life with my husband and siblings. I did a little research on the net after coming out cause I too saw such great similarities.
The mormon church was founded basically by a young man, Joseph Smith.
He was given a divine revelation by an angel who chose to speak to him and told him he was to be used persay to help with the gathering of the true church in the time of the end. Although he was not to start a religion and organize. Well that didn't work.
They use the book of Mormons with the bible but I've heard (may be wrong) that the book actually takes precedent over bible at times.
They believe in disfellowshipping (shunning/excommunicating) but only real bad stuff. ANd someone who leves that church after being raised in it usually becomes shunned and viewed as turning over to the dark side. lol
Exactly as the JWs.....
Charles Russell as 26 year old man was interested in pure bible truth. His intention was not to set up an earthly organization (HA)
Uses the WT as food at the proper time and banks on its teachings even over the bible. (even though they deny this)
If you have been raised a JW and leave the 'true' church you are an apostate and therefore, disfellowshipped and shunned. Given over to the dark side because you have left God by disagreeing with the men upstairs and the literature they produce.
Very mind controlling cult. On the outside they look as though they produce GOOD strong families and values. Honest citizens. A true brotherhood.
For some that their hearts are sincere, they are trying to live this way for God although the guilt of NEVER measuring up always stares you in the face.
Many others KNOW they are never going to be good enough so they look one way on the outside and practice deceit and hypocrisy in the dark. As long as the elders don't catch you at anything, it doesn't matter what God sees. Fear and guilt are the main ingredients to keeping these poor people enslaved.
AND IT WORKS!
30's enslaved in the WT. Set free 3 1/2 years ago by my lord. NOW I don't have to slave for two masters. The Wt and Jehovah...
My lord is my master. It is HIS work I want to accomplish.
Christian love
JUST A MOM (Kim)
 
claudia
claudia 15 years ago

Alex, I have mormons coming to vistit me tomorrow again, can you give me some questions to ask them? Is there a secret handshake? thanks in advance
 
alex
alex 15 years ago


You may not make sense on this whole suggestion list but I guarantee you that the following steps are a sure program for getting honest mormon missionaries to seriously reconsider their faith. Had somebody really done a good job like this I would have saved myself years and tens of thousands of dollars of tithes and not gotten into a marriage where I'd eventually be an unbeliever married to a believer.
(A) Ask them to read the following from their Gospel Principles manual chapter 31 on Honesty verbatim:
Complete honesty is necessary for our salvation. An Apostle of the Lord has said: "Honesty is a principle of salvation in the kingdom of God. … Just as no man or woman can be saved without baptism, so no one can be saved without honesty" (Mark E. Petersen, in Conference Report, Oct. 1971, p. 63; or Ensign, Dec. 1971, p. 72). God is honest and just in all things (see Alma 7:20). We too must be honest in all things to become like him. The brother of Jared testified, "Yea, Lord, I know that thou … art a God of truth, and canst not lie" (Ether 3:12). In contrast, the devil is a liar. In fact, he is the father of lies (see 2 Nephi 9:9). "Those who choose to cheat and lie and deceive and misrepresent become his slaves" (Mark E. Petersen, in Conference Report, Oct. 1971, p. 65; or Ensign, Dec. 1971, p. 73). Lying is intentionally deceiving others. Bearing false witness is one form of lying. The Lord gave this commandment to the children of Israel: "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour" (Exodus 20:16). Jesus also taught this when he was on earth (see Matthew 19:18). There are many other forms of lying. When we speak untruths, we are guilty of lying. We can also intentionally deceive others by a gesture or a look, by silence, or by telling only part of the truth. Whenever we lead people in any way to believe something that is not true, we are not being honest. The Lord is not pleased with such dishonesty, and we will have to account for our lies. Satan would have us believe it is all right to lie. He says, "Yea, lie a little; … there is no harm in this" (2 Nephi 28:8). Satan encourages us to justify our lies to ourselves. Honest people will recognize Satan’s temptations and will speak the whole truth, even if it seems to be to their disadvantage. People use many excuses for being dishonest. People lie to protect themselves and to have others think well of them. Some excuse themselves for stealing, thinking they deserve what they took, intend to return it, or need it more than the owner. Some cheat to get better grades in school or because "everyone else does it" or to get even. These excuses and many more are given as reasons for dishonesty. To the Lord, there are no acceptable reasons. President Kimball taught that when we excuse ourselves, we cheat ourselves and the Spirit of God ceases to be with us. We become more and more unrighteous. (See Faith Precedes the Miracle, p. 234.) To become completely honest, we must look carefully at our lives. If there are ways in which we are being even the least bit dishonest, we should repent of them immediately. When we are completely honest, we cannot be corrupted. We are true to every trust, duty, agreement, or covenant, even if it costs us money, friends, or our lives. Then we can face the Lord, ourselves, and others without shame. President Joseph F. Smith counseled, "Let every man’s life be so that his character will bear the closest inspection, and that it may be seen as an open book, so that we will have nothing to shrink from or be ashamed of" (Gospel Doctrine, p. 252). http://library.lds.org/library/lpext.dll/Curriculum/home%20and%20family.htm/gospel%20principles.htm/3-unit00050/honesty%20chapter%2031.htm?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0 (Gospel Principles, 1997, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Chapter 31)
B) Tell the missionaries that your research into the Book of Mormon has uncovered the following issues:
1) Latter-day prophets and scripture have clearly taught that the Book of Mormon is an actual historical record (in other words – its not fictional like the "Chronicles of Narnia" or "Star Wars") even though its primary purpose is supposed to be spiritual in nature.
2) Latter-day prophets and scripture have clearly taught that the Native Americans are predominantly Hebrew in origins and the literal descendants of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Father Lehi (an actual man who migrated to the Americas from the land of Jerusalem approximately 2600 years ago).
3) Latter-day prophets and scripture have clearly taught that the Book of Mormon Lamanite/Nephite people were a large group or civilization that covered a large portion of the Americas.
4) The Book of Mormon and Latter-day prophets have clearly taught that when Father Lehi arrived in the Americas that there were no other significant groups of people here except for perhaps the Jaredites who were soon extinct.
5) DNA studies have become very accepted in the scientific community for determining the historical migrations and origins of mankind. In fact scientists at BYU are now successfully using DNA evidence to help carry forward the Church’s mission to do genealogy work and redeem the dead.
6) The DNA evidence strongly suggests significant differences between the DNA markers of known Hebrew groups with those of primarily Mongolian/Siberian groups.
7) DNA studies have been used in very recent times to show that there are specific genetic markers (i.e. minor genetic mutations) that Hebrew people have which are not found in other groups of people and that DNA evidence has been used by groups in the reaches of Africa and Asia to prove that they are indeed of Hebrew origins. In these cases the leaders and experts in Israel have changed their opinions and welcomed these groups to immigrate into Israel as "blood brothers/sisters".
8) The DNA evidence strongly suggests that no significant (or even minor) group of Native Americans have been found who have the unique genetic markers found in the DNA of the known Hebrew groups.
9) The DNA evidence strongly suggests that the Native Americans and Mongolian/Siberian groups are closely related and supports the long-held theories in linguistics, anthropology, archaeology and other sciences that the Native Americans primarily descendants of migrants from the Mongolian/Siberian region of Asia.
10) Even though the evidence is very strong its important to remember that research in DNA and Genetics is still progressing and it may still be too soon to draw firm conclusions.
11) The predominantly accepted theory of LDS scholars and apologists is that the "Book of Mormon" people were only a very small group and were in a very small area geographically and that nobody seriously has ever taught that they were ever a large group or large civilization that covered a large portion of the Americas.
12) Another popular theory of many LDS scholars and apologists is that the group of Lehi who were of Hebrew descent arrived in the Americas approx. 600 BC and merged in with the natives who were of Mongolian descent and that’s how the principal ancestors of the Natives were of Hebrew origins even though the scientific evidence shows that they are Mongolian.
13) A much less popular theory of LDS scholars and apologists is that the scientists are actually wrong and that future research will show that the Natives are indeed descendants of Hebrews. Most of the scholars and apologists in the Church who know about the scientific evidences accept what the scientists are finding and ignore the theories that the Native Americans’ principal ancestors were a large civilization who were of Hebrew origins.
14) The Church claims that its true IF and ONLY IF the Book of Mormon is true.
If the missionaries ask how you compiled this list. Tell them you got it off of the Internet from a member of a Stake Presidency who is currently still in just for the sake of family but has read the Book of Mormon about 23 times. I can get you plenty of evidence to backup the following statements and tell the missionaries that they better.
(C) Remind the missionaries what their own Missionary Guide says:
There are many useful tools available to help missionaries (whether they are Full-Time, Stake, or Members) in their callings. One of the most important tools produced by the Church in recent times is the Missionary Guide, 1988 edition. Most Missions and all of the Missionary Training Centers require their full-time missionaries to study the Missionary Guide principles and skills on a daily basis so its safe to assume that the skills listed here from the Missionary Guide are in line with the thinking of the leaders of the Church. A few conclusions that are important to remember for this document are:
Testify of what you teach (rather than off on a tangent)
Maintain an equal relationship and don’t sound better than they are.
Be simple, clear, direct and use words that investigators will understand.
The Spirit testifies of truth so tell the truth in order to have the Spirit which matters the most.
Show those you teach that you are genuinely concerned and sincerely care.
Restate or summarize in your own words what they say to see if you understood them correctly.
Pause after you ask a question to let others gather their thoughts and express their feelings.
Be careful to not jump to conclusions.
Try to understand the thoughts and feelings of others.
Ask questions that help them share their feelings and beliefs to find out if they understand a principle.
Don’t ask ‘yes’/’no’ questions when finding out if someone understands a principle.
Don’t ask manipulative questions designed to make the investigator give the answer you want.
Ask questions that maintain an equal relationship between you and them.
Ask questions that show you respect what they have to say.
Sincerely try to find out their feelings and concerns.
Do not make them feel that you are interrogating them.
"Find Out" skills are important to help them discuss their feelings and prepare them to feel the Spirit.
Empathy is the ability to put yourself in another’s situation and share his thoughts and feelings.
Empathy is also looking at things from the other’s point of view rather than yours.
In showing empathy, you must mean what you say.
Expressing empathy that you do not really feel offends people and does more harm than good.
You are responsible to help others resolve their concerns.
People may hesitate to share their concerns.
Your attitude will often determine whether or not people will share their concerns.
one of your biggest challenges will be finding out what their concerns are.
Show that you care for others by listening to them and showing that you understand them.
Let them know that the concern has not damaged your relationship.
Missionaries often wrongly feel that they need to resolve concerns by bearing testimony or by sharing experiences, scriptures, and examples.
In many situations, however, the best way to resolve concerns is to simply help others discover their own solutions.
Tell them that you are confident he will make the right decisions.
Be able to explain unfamiliar ideas to others and help them discover what they need to do to resolve their concerns.
One of your most important responsibilities as a missionary is to help others identify and resolve their concerns.
D) Let the missionaries know there are several other issues that you have concerns about and that your concerns need to be resolved.
1) Translation of the Book of Abraham facsimiles
2) Plagiarism from Masonry in Endowment
3) Polygamy in Nauvoo, 1835 D&C 101, Breaking Illinois Polygamy Laws
4) Plagiarism from Shakespeare and Anglican Church in Book of Mormon
5) Kinderhook Plates
6) MMM
There are others but this is a good start. If you do a good job you may save 2 missionaries alot of heartache in life from devoting themselves to a false cause. Good luck and let me know if I can be of additional assistance.
 
rodnico
rodnico 15 years ago

Alex-
It is funny but I have never thought about the similarities between the two organizations. I was raised in Utah. I lived in Ogden, and was a regular pioneer all over northern Utah. Because I was one of the few non-Mormon kids at school it had a strange affect of strengthening a faith.
When my family first moved to Utah to serve where the need was great (there were few witnesses in the area) my mother began to read anti-Mormon apostate literature. She researched the church she used to say "I don't know how someone could believe this", and then she just stopped. I remember someone asking her why she stopped and she never really gave a decent answer. Now looking at this post I wonder if she saw the similarities and it shook her faith????
This is interesting to me now I think I will do more research.
Thanks for the post Alex.
Nicole
 
mommy
mommy 15 years ago


Alex,
Welcome! I really enjoyed your post. I had a few young men coming to my house for awhile. It was after I left the Jw "We are the chosen ones, everyone else will die" stage. After the pentacostal "God loves everyone and it is easy to get saved" stage. Somewhere between the "if there is a god, he would want us united" stage. But way after the I can worship god on my own stage. Of course now, I am in the "I can't believe it's not butter stage"
Gee, so many religions so little time Amazing how similar we all really are
Great to have you and thanks for the long thought out post. I love people who give of themselves to help others. I call this the "humanity" stage. I don't think I ever left that in all of my different stages. This seems to work the best for me.
wendy
In a controversy the instant we feel anger, we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.
 
philo
philo 15 years ago


Here's some of the church hierarchy, hopefully others with HQ experience can fill in the higher levels.
 Congregation
Elders are overseers of different departments. The presiding overseer or PO chairs every committee and is in overall responsibility. Generally, he is not a boss man, because decisions are made by committees, but a politically astute PO can more easily rule the roost than other elders. Elders are made by being voted (I think unanimously) by the other elders in a secret session. All elders meetings are secret.
Ministerial Servants are just sub-elders doing less spiritual matters, small speeches, perhaps shepherding the flock. Usually one handles literature accounts, another money collections…
Publishers are men and women, and kids (if active on door-door and approved of). This is 'drone' level. They report their preaching hours on form every month. This is compiled by congregation and sent to the Branch, then Brooklyn (supranational HQ)
 Circuit
City overseer is the travelling circuit overseer's mailman, he also helps co-ordinate assemblies for the circuit.
Circuit overseer (travelling). These men used to all be single, now they are virtually all married. They manage about 20 congs (that's maybe 800-2000+ people depending on area) . He gives pep talks, door-door demonstrations. Behind the scenes he handles the elders, rubber stamps their new appointments usually - not always. He will have contacts at the Bethel branch office (National HQ) and must report on all the congregations. Some COs are political lightweights, pussy cats, some are serious Rutherf…..rs
 District
The district overseer manages a few circuits (does anyone know the average number??). From a publisher's eye view, this man is a public performer who only appears at assemblies and addresses thousands, only to disappear until next year. I believe his responsibilities have as much to do with Branch HQ departments as with his district. When a tricky apostate matters comes up, a CO and DO are often despatched 'for a chat'. In my locality, two such men arrived unannounced at a congregation meeting once, just got onto the platform and announced that the congregation was dissolved, not the meeting - the congregation! So these guys are major ball crackers.
 Bethel Elder
(From here on it gets really hazy for me.)
This is not just a congregation elder who happens to work at Bethel. He is of a very much higher class. Help, Maximus! Or other Bethel insiders, can you fill in some detail.?
 
claudia
claudia 15 years ago

Alex, thanks a bunch for the info, and do you know anything about a secret handshake?
 
philo
philo 15 years ago


claudia, you're being a bit mischeivous I think. Good one! Susan[here] would probably not entirely approve.
philo
 
claudia
claudia 15 years ago

Philo, I really thought there was a secret handshake as mentioned in a thread a few weeks earlier
 
RedhorseWoman
RedhorseWoman 15 years ago


Alex, thank you for posting all of this information. I was slightly familiar with Mormonism because my nephew had joined the Mormons for a short time (about 2 years).
I was quite surprised, however, to realize exactly how close we all are as far as dealing with the control techniques, and coping with the fear after we've left.
Most ex-JWs go through the same process of worrying that they have somehow condemned, not only themselves, but also their minor children to death by leaving the JWs.
I can assure you that those feelings eventually subside. Gaining knowledge and discussing your feelings with others helps the process along.
Glad you could join us.
 
Erin
Erin 15 years ago

Alex--you said to ask, so I am asking.
What is the big secret about what goes on at a wedding in the Morman Temple? Something about re-enacting "original sin"?
What about babies which are conceived as a result of this? Are they considered especially holy babies because the father is a priest of high ranking?
Please forgive my ignorance, but there are lots of rumors circulating about Temple weddings!
Thanks in advance for your input!
 
alex
alex 15 years ago


Nothing really weird happens in temple weddings at all. The groom and bride dress up in the white temple robes (over the bride's wedding dress if her dress is modest) and everyone else is in sunday dress clothes. They all go into a sealing room which is usually a luxuriously furnished room where 30-80 people can sit and it has an altar (just a big huge piece of furniture about 3 feet tall and 4 feet wide shaped like an upside down "U" with cushions on each side to kneel. A temple worker called the SEALER performs the ceremony but usually first gives about 15-20 minutes of advice about marriage. The couple then holds hands over the altar during the 1-2 minute ceremony as the sealer bestows blessings on them that their marriage will last forever in the eyes of God if they are faithful and the Sealer also pronounces them as married according to the laws where the temple is physically located. After the ceremony is finished the newlywed couple is usually invited to do their rings exchange and then to stand near the exit door so they can greet their guests as they exit the room to go through the halls of the temple and out of the building to join the photographer and the rest of family and relatives who weren't worthy to enter the temple. Meanwhile once the sealing room is empty the newlyweds then go to the changing rooms to get out of their temple robes and get all spruced up to exit the temple doors as husband/wife and get all the family pictures at the temple done.
I think its the temple robes and the 60 second ceremony wordings/grip that are considered sacred and not to be discussed. Personally I think that the reason why temple grips are considered secret by members is not because of any divine reason but because of the fear of oaths the members take to not reveal them and thus the fact that these grips are plagiarism of Masonic grips is not discussed.
 
alex
alex 15 years ago


I still am fearful to discuss specifics of Mormon temples personally.
But I'd recommend that you lookup online to find out what the Masonic grips are for 3 levels - Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft, and Master Mason. Ask your LDS friends to goto http://www.telepath.com/believer/page-l.htm and learn about the Masons.
 

«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
KiddingMe
Police: Teen killed in N.Y. church assault wanted out
by KiddingMe 5 months ago
TTWSYF
What's up with the HEBREWS translation?
by TTWSYF 3 months ago
LAWHFol
Does God Exist? / Who is God? These are Questions which Lead nowhere. What is God Like, is the Correct Question.
by LAWHFol 6 months ago
Saved_JW
Watchtower Paralells Mormonism
by Saved_JW 4 months ago
Splash
Which current GB members are part of the "overlapping generation"?
by Splash 5 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/8603/comparison-mormonism-jwism





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Comparison of Mormonism and JWism
/  





 

Comparison of Mormonism and JWism
by alex 15 years ago 32 Replies latest 13 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20
julien
julien 15 years ago


Alex
wasn't there a deal where when the BoM was being translated chapter by chapter someone took one of the chapters and didn't give it back.. Later Joseph Smith was unable to reproduce the chapter (this was what the person who took it wanted to demonstrate) and it was paraphrased in the final BoM.
Also I heard that there were sections in the BoM that were taken verbatim from the KJV, including mistranslations or mistakes in the KJV..
any truth to these?
Julien
 
Marilyn
Marilyn 15 years ago


Hi I'm an exjw of many years. I have recently been in discussions with a Mormon lady from Utah, who's been trying to help me to know her God. In the end she asked me to meditate quietly for an hour each day and try to tune into God in order to get a response from him. She's been pretty careful to avoid commenting on Satan or other weird stuff (I spose there is plenty of time for that later) - but I was interested that she thinks I'll get divine inspiration by meditating and praying. I told her I couldn't do it as it represented surrender - and relinguishing control of my mind. I don't really know what happens when you do this, but I presume self delusion sets in and you start imagining all kinds of stuff.
I'm really interested to hear about the Mormons and what they believe. For some reason I always thought they were more harmless than JWs. Maybe not?
Marilyn
 
Preston
Preston 15 years ago

Hi Alex, I just saw your post and I wanted to point out that here in Arizona a LDS politician (State Rep. Jeff Flake) has been raising eybrows over proposing a law that would do away with standardized jail sentences in Arizona. His statements run parallel to his calling for the release of a 78 year-old child molester (Daniel F. Walsh) who was a friend in his LDS church. Many have called his defense sincere, misguided, and wrong. By speaking out against standardized jail sentances and by asking a judge to keep the molester out of prison Flake has garnered just enough bad publicity to put a dark cloud over the rest of his career. His actions are an insult to our system of justice.
 
Preston
Preston 15 years ago

BTW, Alex, you mentioned in your list of topics of concern to discuss with Mormon missionaries that MMM would be a good topic. Is this a refernce to the Mountain Medows Massacre? Id this really a topic that many Mormons know about. I've known about it for a long time.
 
alex
alex 15 years ago


This board of yours has an evil flaw. I answered all your questions with a very long response, lots of good quotes, etc. Then I hit "Reply to Topic" and your Jehovah God screwed everything up. I got some message that my password was bad and the message was sent to the Armaggedon of cyberspace and destroyed.
Actually I'd highly recommend the site www.lds-mormon.com for a critical view on Mormonism or www.mormons.org for an apologist view. The LDS church scriptures are also available online at scriptures.lds.org so that any of you can check out the various references that come up. Its suffice to say that the foundation of Mormonism rests on whether or not the Book of Mormon really is a record of the dealings of God with the ancestors of the American Indians and whether these Indians really are Israelite descendants. Any other issue just doesn't have that same impact on making/breaking the case on Mormonism.
 
philo
philo 15 years ago


alex,
I recommend you ctrl'a'+ctrl'c' prior to posting. Are you following the higher hierarchy thread?
philo
 
jelly
jelly 15 years ago


Hello Alex,
I am from a town in Northern California with a large Mormon population; the town’s population is about 5K and we have two large Mormon Temples. While I think the Mormon’s do have some similarities to the Witnesses in Organizational structure, really that’s where the similarities end.
For example:
Before I became a JW, I had dated several different Mormon girls, with their parent’s approval; a JW parent would never let that happen.
Mormons go to college. If any criticism can be made here it is that the Mormon religion is focused on personal achievement and money too much.
Most Mormons are normal people that you could have a conversation with that doesn’t revolve around religion.
Mormons are different. A Mormon from Utah tends to be much more strict than one from California and Texas. Witlesses have such a strong social pressure placed on them to conform that witness are the same all over.
I lived with a Mormon girl that had moved out of her parent’s home at 18 years of age. Her church elders called her in to chat with her and she told them that she no longer wanted to be a Mormon; she was actually rude to them. The Mormons were still very polite to her and did not shun her in any way; this is a complete opposite of what the JW clergy and congregation would have done.
So in conclusion, Mormons have some similarities to Witnesses; Mormons however do not attempt to control every aspect of their congregation’s life, from association to education. In my view Mormons are just a strict and somewhat irritating religion but it does not achieve the cult status that the WTBS has earned.
P.S. I realize however that there are differences between Utah Mormons and California Mormons. It is quite possible that Utah Mormons might approach a cult like organization, however since my only experience is with California Mormons I can only comment on their behavior.
Jelly (Used to be smooth with the mormon girls class)
 
SusanHere
SusanHere 13 years ago


Hi, Alex,
We've chatted a few times in Q and A, so I know your story and I was wondering how long it would be before you started posting here. Welcome!
Yes, you have a hard row to hoe since you've made up your own mind about the Church, want to leave, but have all those good LDS relatives you don't want to alienate yourself from, including your wife. Tough decisions are ahead of you. While we don't shun as the JWs do, there is no doubt how hurt your family will be if you pursue your present course. They will never stop loving you, but they also will never stop trying to pursuade you to return. I wonder and have asked this before...To whom have you gone with your doubts, to hear the other side (the Church's side) explained again in ways that now might make more sense to you?
It just slays me that you put so much emphasis on the DNA evidence. Please find the National Geographic that I have seen others suggest you read...the one with the world map of DNA tracking which showed one group of American Indians to have the exact DNA the BOM would require them to have. The National Geographic itself put a tiny comment under that one group that you would find most interesting. I don't remember the exact month, but it was within the past 6 months, and I may still have that issue and can be more specific later. At any rate, to put such an emphasis on one point of doctrine has the effect of making it a "gospel hobby" which tends to distort other, equally or even more important points of doctrine. Moderation in all things, Brother.
I appreciate your simple clarification of the Temple question. Amazing how many people (outsiders) want to turn the Temple experience into something perverted and sexual -- WHICH IT IS NOT!!!! It has always amazed me how some people can take the words "sacred ordinance" and somehow make it seem like it just must secretly mean "sexual activity". I guess that shows the condition of their own minds that they insist on thinking such thoughts, because it sure isn't a part of our Temple ceremonies!
I don't appreciate, however, your instructions to destroy the faith of the young missionaries. If people don't care to join, fine. Let them say so. Let the Elders move on and find those who are truly seeking and interested. But it is wrong to intentionally set out to destroy the faith of another person, no matter what their religion is. That is wrong. If they ask about your faith, tell them. But don't tear down their religion. That is between them and God. Your experiences are your own. Let them find their own way.
You said you were called to Bishopric and now Stake Presidency? Opportunities abound for you to discuss your concerns with those who are in position to know and are spiritually in tune enough to help you find your way, whatever that may be. It sure can't be easy living a double life. Good luck to you in your journey.
Susan
 
link
link 13 years ago


Susan,
Perhaps I am not the only one wondering what a fully fledged Mormon is doing with 111 posts on a discussion board used mainly by apostate Jehovahs Witnesses. Are you hoping to get leads for converts or are you just lurking on behalf of others?
I thought that JWs were bad enough but you have dished out enough emotional blackmail to Alex to give him a lifetimes guilt complex.
In that respect at least, you Mormons are not a lot different to the JWs are you?.
link
 
gumby
gumby 13 years ago


SIMILARITIES?
Joseph smith was 15 when God first impelled him
Charlie Russell was 18
Both of the idiots believed that the true message was lost shortly after the apostles died....that God HID the message untill the late 18th cetury when God decided it was DUE TIME to get the message out.....the TRUE MESSAGE.
If anyone is dumb enough to believe this shit.....more power to them. I was dumb enough. I believed it for 41 years. Now it all seems so simple...that being....it's all a bunch of horseshit.
I hope this helps.
 
SusanHere
SusanHere 13 years ago


Hi, Link,
Nice to meet you. No, I am neither lurking on behalf of others nor looking for converts. Read my past postings and you'll see that I do neither. Is it paranoia that makes people ask that so often?
Actually, I have JW family members I care about deeply. I come here to understand better where they are coming from in what they say and do with regards to my family, to me, and especially regarding our LDS beliefs and lifestyle. This board has been most helpful in clarifying matters for me as questions come up which I know from experience I'm better off not asking JW family members about.
As for "guilting" Alex...Where? Mormons aren't into guilt trips. Any guilting was unintentional, except perhaps for voicing my strong beliefs on the "let everyone find his own way" regarding setting out to unChurch the missionaries. That wasn't intended to be guilt-producing either, but just the facts of the matter. I apply that to my JW family members, too. They are happy as they are, so I leave them alone with their beliefs and won't try to convert them away. I WILL answer whatever they ask about my faith, but that's as far as it goes. Maybe I was just using my "Mom" voice with Alex!
Hope this helps!
Susan
 
link
link 13 years ago


Hi Susan,
Thanks for responding. I'm sorry that so many have asked you these same questions. I think that this just shows how unusual your actions are. I don't think that it shows paranoia on anybodys part.
You said:
Yes, you have a hard row to hoe since you've made up your own mind about the Church, want to leave, but have all those good LDS relatives you don't want to alienate yourself from, including your wife. Tough decisions are ahead of you. While we don't shun as the JWs do, there is no doubt how hurt your family will be if you pursue your present course.
I just wonder how many ex JWs have heard words to this effect and how many others here see this as an attempt to set up a guilt trip for someone in a very vulnerable position.
If you think that alienating your wife and upsetting your family don't qualify, I'd hate to really upset you!
link
 
gumby
gumby 13 years ago


Marylyn,
For some reason I always thought they were more harmless than JWs. Maybe not?
All cults are harmful in one way or another. The fact they are based on man should tell a person plenty. I hope you are interested for the right purpose and not because your LOOKING. Please don't make the same mistake twice. I trust you are above that.
 

«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
i'm thinking that the mind-control games are very very very very much the same between mormonism and jwism.
i've lurked here for a while and thought i'd introduce myself.
my name is alex and i'm an unbelieving mormon who lives in utah.



Related Topics
KiddingMe
Police: Teen killed in N.Y. church assault wanted out
by KiddingMe 5 months ago
TTWSYF
What's up with the HEBREWS translation?
by TTWSYF 3 months ago
LAWHFol
Does God Exist? / Who is God? These are Questions which Lead nowhere. What is God Like, is the Correct Question.
by LAWHFol 6 months ago
Saved_JW
Watchtower Paralells Mormonism
by Saved_JW 4 months ago
Splash
Which current GB members are part of the "overlapping generation"?
by Splash 5 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/8603/comparison-mormonism-jwism?page=2&size=20






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Touchstones of reason failed by Mormonism
/  





 

Touchstones of reason failed by Mormonism
by Qcmbr 3 years ago 10 Replies latest 3 years ago   watchtower scandals
5
10
20
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 3 years ago

Sorry , I said I'd post this last week but I played pc games with my bro instead. My bad.
Simple basic errors in the Mormon meme that are missed by active members.
◦History. Book of Mormon purports to describe actual historical events most notably two huge civilisations on the Americas , one of which is Israelite. Small , insignificant elements - such as a possible location for a campsite - aside, all the events described in the book are refuted by archaeology, genetics, linguistics and geography.
◦Fraud. The Book of Abraham purports to be a record written by Abraham using Egyptian. At least one fragment of the original exists and it, along with the printed facsimile are well known and translated standard funery texts. The words 'revealed' do not match the actual translation and the meanings ascribed are incorrect. The fabricated additional drawing shows an understandable lack of knowledge regarding Egyptian mythology.
◦Polygamy and Polyandry. Joseph secretly married women, some of whom he threatened / bribed in private meetings, including at least one 14 year old but perhaps worst of all some women already married. This is inexcusable.
◦Masonry. Masonry is nothing to do with any real workmen from Israelite temples. It is a relatively modern secret society with handshakes, aprons, initiations and blood oaths. Joseph became a mason. The temple ceremony he revealed is a shameless copy. This supposedly eternal ceremony has been radically altered multiple times within the last hundred years to fit with modern sensibilities ( removed blood oaths, nude bathing etc).
◦Money. Church leaders die wealthy. Church gives less than 1% revenue to charitable causes. All top church leaders have all expenses paid, have travel, holidays, cars, homes, education, jobs ( lucrative jobs on boards of church businesses) and interest free loans courtesy of church. Church has built shopping centre costing more than all charitable donations ever used. Church runs hunting lodges, financial institutions, communications businesses etc. It has no need of tithing to support itself. It requires tithing to access the highest degree of heaven.
◦Morality. Mormonism has been on the wrong side of major social immorality. Racism. Homophobia. Sexism. Mormonism supports immoral and irrational concepts such as killing your children / people if a voice in your tells you to. Genocidal war. Death for apostasy. Lying for the Lord ( being dishonest to Gentiles - in particular over polygamy but often used to avoid legal issues.) Electro shock aversion therapy.
◦Stupidity. Quaker style moon inhabitants. Never going to reach moon. Adams alter. Greek Psalter incident. Kinder hook plates. Egyptian grammar and alphabet. Lamanite warrior burial mound. Cumorah is impossibly located. Immortal 3 Nephites. Garments offer physical protection. Tithing as fire insurance. No coke ( caffeinated drinks.) No beards. White shirts. No women in pants. No contraception. Sex only for procreation. Masturbation leads to homosexuality. Earth is 6000 years old. No evolution. Seer stones and revelation via stone in a hat.
◦Reality. Mormonism purports to have actual revelation, visions, seers, prophecy, healing power, the gift of tongues etc. No one in the Mormon church heals anyone, ever ( a real healing would make national news) , no revelations are currently being received ( surely there are plenty of topics god would like to talk about), no one uses the gift of tongues , no prophecy occurs , so called prophets could not discern the Hoffman fraud and spent large sums to buy problematic forgeries, the members of the church are no different from everyone else ( they divorce, get ill, suffer bankruptcy just the same as everyone else.)
◦The tide has turned. Church growth has been falling long term but, wherever the Internet is ( anonymous access to information and the ability to question) the church demographic is radically altering as fewer converts join and more teens leave. The church is aging. Dominos are falling ( Sweden is a very visible crack in the wall.) 10 years and it will be a broken force with increasingly fundamentalist strongholds unless it does a CoC, renounces crazy and descends into mainstream Christian mediocrity.
If a real church of a real god existed it would be involved in a very different set of challenges than those listed above.
 
garyneal
garyneal 3 years ago

I watched the movie called "The God Makers" which you may or may not be familiar with. Some of the points you highlighted were also highlighted in the film. They also mentioned that there were multiple accounts of Joseph Smith's encounter in the woods with God. One had him seeing Jesus alone, another with a multitude of Angels, and another with God and Jesus alone (which I think is the official account). Is there truth to this?
 
cantleave
cantleave 3 years ago

So you are saying it is another bullshit cult? Shame I was starting to be convinced by Cold Steel.
 
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 3 years ago

I suspect we are seeing the moment before the implosion.
 
slimboyfat
slimboyfat 3 years ago

"Lying for The Lord" do they actually use that phrase? Is it like Theocratic warfare? Witnesses don't use that term much these days.
 
slimboyfat
slimboyfat 3 years ago

Why do you say Sweden is a weak point? Sounds interesting. I was under the impression that, aside from Britain, Mormon numbers in Europe are very low.
 
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 3 years ago

Hans Mattsson was a big defection that has the community buzzing. Apparently something bigger is due October.
 
adamah
adamah 3 years ago

Qcmbr said:
I suspect we are seeing the moment before the implosion.

Allow me to suggest that you're likely projecting your personal wishes and perspective onto others, and assuming that since YOU'VE personally seen enough evidence you're assuming that OTHERS can see it, too, and will come to the same conclusion as you did. That's a LONG series of assumptions to make, based on the bias of placing rationalism above all.
If I had a pence/pound every time someone predicted the triumph of reason over irrational emotions I'd be a rich man by now. :smile: Heck, Thomas Paine wrote a pamphlet in 1800 called the "Age of Reason", calling for the same thing, and that was over 300 yrs ago.
So why is religion bigger than ever in 2013, where a recent poll shows that 80% of Americans insist that God has to be involved in human evolution?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2375035/Only-1-5-Americans-believes-human-beings-evolved-guidance-God.html

The "reason" is that religion appeals to MANY OTHER non-rational factors, such as emotions; it's not all about rational thinking for MOST believers. Religions understand that, and that's exactly WHY they use social control measures like shunning, ex-communication, etc, to bolster the goofy thinking.
I know an LDS elder who is an intelligent and highly-educated professional (he's an optometist who prescribes glasses and other optical devices), yet he apparently sees no problem with believing that Joseph Smith used miraculous 'seer stones' to translate Egyptian into English and receive Divine inspirations. This guy deals with optics on a DAILY BASIS, but unless those seer stones were actually prototypes of Google Glasses with an internet connection, it's not a rational belief.
I doubt he actually believes in 'seer stones', but he's acutely aware that he's a member of a cultural sub-group where his patients believe in it and are committed to agreeing to certain beliefs, so he goes along to get along, where part of the price of admission is holding one's mental nose in order to swallow irrational beliefs.
And to think LDS is going to kill the goose that laid the golden egg and admit to being one of a long line of religions that have engaged in an ancient scam flies completely contrary to human nature. It's not IMPOSSIBLE, just that it seems extremely unlikely to me (eg the organizational structure of LDS and JWs with governing bodies is DESIGNED to prevent such an event from happening). Is there ANY major religion which has admitted to being a bunch of hog-wash, or where the person who admitted it wasn't quickly demonized and distanced as an outsider (eg Franz)?
Hence we'll likely see a continuation and/or growth in those religions that decide to modify their theologies to resolve conflicts between rational and non-rational factors, eg by incorporating evolution into their beliefs, while still holding onto belief in a God who kicked off the process. That's the whole goal of 'scientific creationism', easing the dissonance of the more rational and educated believers by insisting on forcing their God into the test-tubes of science in public education, while demanding it still be labeled as 'science'.
The practice of blending new beliefs into the old theology once popular opinion and knowledge of the natural World demands it is called 'syncretism', and it's a trend that's as old as the hills, following quite predictable steps.
Nowadays, it starts when science conclusively shows the sheer silliness of some theologically-based claim or belief (eg God said that men think with their hearts in Genesis, or the Earth was flat, or at the center of the Universe, or has a dome-shaped solid firmament, etc). Then when that position is shown as being silly and contradictory to scientific evidence (eg brain, not heart was shown in 400BC to be center of cognition by Hippocrates), the fallback position then becomes claiming it was only a metaphorical belief or poetic use, and not meant as literal truth. Jesus didn't LITERALLY mean that hand-washing before eating didn't have any benefits, etc.
The downgrading of claims of literal truths into metaphorical/spiritual truths/figures of speech will hopefully continue, until HOPEFULLY someday the entire Bible may be realized to be metaphorical (at which point a new religion is likely to have taken it's place, and filled that niche or void).
You'd think the process of reason triumphing over emotion and superstition would be complete by 2013, but as I said in another thread, the existence of groups like the Flat Earth Society seems to suggest there's still a long way to go.

Adam
 
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 3 years ago

 You may be right. I've just never seen the LDS church taking so many hits and losing so many core members. I have several open discussions both socially and on facebook with still active members and most express a sense of bewilderment and are simply falling back to testimony statements ('I feel the spirit', 'I know its true' etc.) The level of discussion (in the 'old' days you never discussed any doubts) , the amount of information and the number of highly committed individuals leaving is unprecedented.
 
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 3 years ago

If you feel like reading the transcript of the Swedish meeting that has shaken things up.
http://www.roadkilldelight.com/NOM/SFMJRT.pdf
 
adamah
adamah 3 years ago

Qcmbr, thanks for the link: I'll check it out.

Qcmbr said-
and are simply falling back to testimony statements ('I feel the spirit', 'I know its true' etc.)

Sure, using only internal validation (eg appeals to personal intuition) works for so adherents of other religions; I don't see why it wouldn't work for Mormons, too, at least until they realize it's a flawed premise for oh, so many reasons. :smile:
Ironic really, as on the one hand Christians are told not to trust their internal flawed moral compasses, hence why they need to rely on God's superior moral laws. But isn't an appeal to intuition basically the same, since it's claiming to trust one's instincts and feelings (eg "it just rings true or makes sense to me"), which are admittedly flawed, in the first place?
In the end, although education is not the complete answer (as discussed by my 'seer stones' comment), I'm leaning towards the power of education (Logic 101, Human Psychology 101, etc) to reduce dependence on fantastic thinking.
It's interesting to watch the process occur in others, with changes slowly taking place over time as people free themselves of false unproven (and unprovable) assumptions. Certainly any belief system that includes magic underwear, 'everyone gets their own Planet!', and seer stones is sorely in need of a dose of rationalism and skepticism since it's Achille's Heel is the same as Christianity: they both profess a belief in the Torah/Tanakh.

Adam
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
KiddingMe
Police: Teen killed in N.Y. church assault wanted out
by KiddingMe 5 months ago
JakeM2012
The extent that desperate cults will go to keep control of their youth
by JakeM2012 5 months ago
Defianttruth
Help to build a "Guide to Your New Faith"
by Defianttruth a month ago
OrphanCrow
The Jehovah's Witnesses, the Royal Commission and the Catholic Church
by OrphanCrow 8 months ago
Watchtower-Free
Latest Leaked BOE letter to Elders Oct. 4th
by Watchtower-Free 6 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/257674/touchstones-reason-failed-mormonism





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Mormon myth: The belief that the church is the fastest-growing faith in the
/  





 

Mormon myth: The belief that the church is the fastest-growing faith in the
by Dogpatch 11 years ago 14 Replies latest 11 years ago   jw friends
5
10
20
Dogpatch
Dogpatch 11 years ago


Very interesting article, shows how churches can "cook the books"
Randy

Keeping members a challenge for LDS church

Mormon myth: The belief that the church is the fastest-growing faith in the world doesn't hold up
By Peggy Fletcher Stack
The Salt Lake Tribune
Salt Lake Tribune 
 
The claim that Mormonism is the fastest-growing faith in the world has been repeated so routinely by sociologists, anthropologists, journalists and proud Latter-day Saints as to be perceived as unassailable fact.
 The trouble is, it isn't true.
 Today, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has more than 12 million members on its rolls, more than doubling its numbers in the past quarter-century. But since 1990, other faiths - Seventh-day Adventists, Assemblies of God and Pentecostal groups - have grown much faster and in more places around the globe.
 And most telling, the number of Latter-day Saints who are considered active churchgoers is only about a third of the total, or 4 million in the pews every Sunday, researchers say.
 For a church with such a large, dedicated missionary corps constantly seeking to spread its word, conversion numbers in recent years tell an unexpected story.
 According to LDS-published statistics, the annual number of LDS converts declined from a high of 321,385 in 1996 to 241,239 in 2004. In the 1990s, the church's growth rate went from 5 percent a year to 3 percent.
 By comparison, the Seventh-day Adventist Church reports it has added more than 900,000 adult converts each year since 2000 (an average growth of about 5 percent), bringing the total membership to 14.3 million. The Assemblies of God now claims more than 50 million members worldwide, adding 10,000 new members every day.
 Russia provides a dramatic example of different religious growth rates. After more than 15 years of proselyting there, LDS membership has risen to 17,000. During the same period, Jehovah's Witnesses membership has increased to more than 140,000, with some 300,000 individuals attending conferences.
 Graphing activity: When the Graduate Center of the City University of New York conducted an American Religious Identification Survey in 2001, it discovered that about the same number of people said they had joined the LDS Church as said they had left it. The CUNY survey reported the church's net growth was zero percent. By contrast, the study showed both Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh-Day Adventists with an increase of 11 percent.
 "Because membership statistics are prepared and reported differently by various religious groups, the LDS Church does not publish comparisons of total membership to other faiths," said LDS spokesman Dale Bills on Friday.
 On the question of how many Mormons are actively participating, Brigham Young University demographer Tim Heaton noted in the Encyclopedia of Mormonism that attendance at weekly sacrament meetings in the early 1990s was between 40 percent and 50 percent in Canada, the South Pacific, and the United States. In Europe and Africa, the average was 35 percent. Attendance in Asia and Latin America hovered around 25 percent.
 By multiplying the number of members in each area by these fractions, David G. Stewart Jr. estimates worldwide activity at about 35 percent - which would give the church about 4 million active members.
 Stewart, an active Mormon who served a mission to Russia in the early 1990s, has been conducting research on LDS missionary work in 20 countries for 13 years, examining census figures, and analyzing published data.
 Take Brazil. In its 2000 Census, 199,645 residents identified themselves as LDS, while the church listed 743,182 on its rolls.
 "There may be any number of reasons for the discrepancy," Bills said, "including personal preferences of some citizens regarding disclosure of their religious affiliation."
 Retaining members: Stewart says Mormons need to be aware of such statistics to be more effective missionaries. To that end, he is publishing his research, along with a description of what he calls "tested principles to improve growth and retention," in a forthcoming book, The Law of the Harvest: Practical Principles of Effective Missionary Work.
 "It is a matter of grave concern that the areas with the most rapid numerical membership increase, Latin America and the Philippines, are also the areas with extremely low convert retention," says Stewart, a California physician. "Many other groups, including the Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses, have consistently achieved excellent convert retention rates in those cultures and societies. Latter-day Saints lose 70 to 80 percent of their converts, while Adventists retain 70 to 80 percent of theirs."
 Perhaps the best measure of LDS Church growth is the rate of new church units, such as wards (congregations) and stakes (like a diocese). Because they are staffed by volunteers, such units cannot function without enough active members.
 In 1980, The Ensign, the LDS Church's official magazine, predicted that membership would grow from 4.6 million members at that time to 11.1 million members in 2000, and from 1,190 stakes to 3,600 in 2000. While the number of members came very close to the projected value, there were 2,602 stakes worldwide at the end of 2002.
 "You can use these trends to say that the percentage is slowing, the numbers have leveled off or they are dropping. They tell us what is happening right now," Heaton says. "But to try and tell us about the future is risky business. What if all of a sudden China or India lets us in and the [missionary] work takes off?"
 Predicting the future: In 1984, University of Washington sociologist Rodney Stark was astonished to discover that the LDS Church's growth rate from 1940 through 1980 was 53 percent. He estimated that if it continued to grow at a more modest 30 percent, there would be 60 million Mormons by the year 2080; if 50 percent, the figure would explode to 265 million.
 He famously predicted that the LDS Church "will soon achieve a worldwide following comparable to that of Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, and the other dominant world faiths."
 Latter-day Saints were on the threshold of becoming "the first major faith to appear on earth since the Prophet Mohammed rode out of the desert," Stark wrote.
 Many people, especially Mormons, eagerly embraced Stark's assessment. In recent years, though, some scholars have challenged his assumptions.
 For one thing, True Pure Land Buddhism, Sokka Gakkai, Baha'i and Sufism are all of comparable or greater size and have arisen since Islam in the 7th century, said Gerald McDermott, a religious studies professor at Virginia's Roanoke College who gave a paper at a Library of Congress symposium on Mormonism in April.
One key to Mormonism becoming a world religion, McDermott says, is how well it can transcend its founding culture to become universal. Catholicism, for example, began in Jerusalem but found a home in many other places, where it easily assimilated into local cultures.
 The LDS message has found a ready audience in Latin America and the South Pacific, where Mormon missionaries can tell people God did not neglect them. The Book of Mormon is the story of a Hebrew family that migrated from Jerusalem to the New World and tells of a visit to their descendants by Jesus Christ after his resurrection.
 Still, the church may not fare as well as other Christian religions in Africa and China, since it has no such reassurance for them, he says.
 American faith: Mormonism is "so thoroughly American," McDermott said in a recent phone interview. "God visited [Mormon founder] Joseph Smith in upstate New York. Eden began in Missouri and the millennium will end there. The new exodus took place in North America."
 None of these critiques bother Stark, who now teaches at Baylor University in Waco, Texas. He is amused by the reactions.
 "The church liked the results and people who are against the church are desperate to figure out why it won't happen," he said last week. "Everyone takes the thing too seriously. I've tried to make clear all along that I was just trying to bring a little discipline to a lot of crazy conversations."
 It was a game of "let's pretend," Stark says, when he applied the compound interest formula and saw huge numbers of Mormons.
 He says he never meant his projections to dictate the future of Mormonism. Others may have more complex models that challenge his findings.
 "They may be right," he says. "But again, if [Mormon growth] has slowed a little, it can always speed up again."
 Stark, whose work will be republished this fall in a new volume, The Rise of a New World Faith: Rodney Stark on Mormonism, doesn't see any reason to apologize for his claims.
 "Already there are more Mormons than Jews," he says, "and we want to consider Judaism a major world religion." pstack@sltrib.com
from: http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2890645
 
 
stillajwexelder
stillajwexelder 11 years ago

extremely interesting Randy - thankyou. At least witnesses do not use the figures of those attending meetings - only those active in the ministry
 
upside/down
upside/down 11 years ago


Mormons = JW's + $$ + more education...= Mormons
A simple equation...
u/d (of the theorem class)
 
Pole
Pole 11 years ago


By comparison, the Seventh-day Adventist Church reports it has added more than 900,000 adult converts each year since 2000 (an average growth of about 5 percent),


 Truly I say unto ye, Jehovah is speeding up the harvest work. Err, wait, did you say it was the SDAs who have a 5% growth? And not Jehovah's only true people? How come?
Pole
 
vitty
vitty 11 years ago


I hate picking out someones past posting but Qcmbr, who is a mormon said that in his 2 years of ministry he baptized .........wait for it..........74 ppl
Now he never answered when I said I found that hard to believe, but I just donot believe it
What witness has EVER brought 74ppl in in 2 years ?
 
Fe2O3Girl
Fe2O3Girl 11 years ago


What witness has EVER brought 74ppl in in 2 years ?

I think that might be comparing apples with oranges. I don't know what the "entry requirements" are for being baptized as a Mormon, but bear in mind that to get to baptism as a JW, you have to have gone through a publication, started attending meetings, probably joined the TMS, started door-to-door preaching, and commited to continuing to do all that, and doing more and more.

Interesting subject. Seems that "growth rate" means a lot to most denominations.
 
vitty
vitty 11 years ago


Fe girl
I agree the "entry requirement" is different, at the very least you have to be alive to become a witness,,,,,not so with the mormons LOL
 
M.J.
M.J. 11 years ago


Russia provides a dramatic example of different religious growth rates. After more than 15 years of proselyting there, LDS membership has risen to 17,000. During the same period, Jehovah's Witnesses membership has increased to more than 140,000, with some 300,000 individuals attending conferences.
I wonder how much this has to do with Russian JWs being displaced former subjects of a totalitarian regime.
 
GetBusyLiving
GetBusyLiving 11 years ago


I can't wait to hear that freaking morman Qcmbr's reply to this.
GBL (of the "just kidding Qcmbr, you are the good shit man!" class)
 
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 11 years ago

The LDS church growth is slipping badly. Amongst the rank and file we are suffering large scale burn out. The church isn't as exciting as before and when the individual enthusiasm of the members wanes then the growth struggles. In the UK I did baptise 74 ppl in two years and 'speaking dangerous apostate talk' I know how the LDS church could blitz all the other congregations into oblivion and grow like crazy however, I'm not in charge so we'll go with the current program and assume 'they' know what they are doing. Strangly enough we don't have half as much intellectual disatisfaction as we do boredom! This is one difference that I see in the UK lds and many people on this board.
The church has lost a chunk of its zeal by becoming more mainstream and being nice to other faiths in the hope that it'll get some back.
Still , if the bible is right we are in for a period of major miracles at some point (most of them bad ones) that will fire up the whole process. In the meantime the old guard will battle on.
Counting dead people baptised though we are comfortably in the lead :wink:
 
Quotes
Quotes 11 years ago

At the risk of causing Qcmbr to get "puffed up with pride", I would like to note the following caculation. You see, when I once noted to my mother that other religions do door-to-door peddling (and therefore, JWs are not unique) and mentioned the Mormons as the prime (and arguable, largest denomination) example, she said Yes, but they only do it for two years! (i.e. she felt the measure of their sacrifice was insufficient).
So....
Mormon: (assume 7.5 hour days, five days/week, and two weeks off for holidays)
(2 years) x (50 weeks) x (35 hours/wk) = 3500 hours

JW: (assume the average dub with 10 hours/month)
(3500 hours) / (10 hours/month) = 350 months = 29.16 years
IOW, it would take the average Dub almost 30 years to get in as many hours door-knocking as the average Mormon who does it for "only" two years.
Now, I think it is pointless to try and compare these apples and oranges, but if someone (like my mom) uses time as the yardstick, then turn it around and use that same yardstick back against them.
~Quotes, of the "Talking through my hat" class
P.S. I first saw this posted by someone else on this board, but forget who; credit to whoever you are!
 
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 11 years ago

The stats aren't as kind as that!
work was 9:30 till 9:30 with 2 hours for lunch and dinner - 10 hours - 6 days a week + 6 Hours on Sunday. 66 Hours. Minus about 6 in meetings we get 60 hours work a week. No holidays.
60 * 52 * 2years = 9360 hours (minus what ever time sick - I never was)
In my mission at the time we had an average of 180 missionaries and we baptised on average 200 a month so:
(180 * 4.2(weeks)*60hours)/200 = 226 hours per convert
To further very roughly split this up : in that 60 hours of work would be:
4 hour service project.
About 5 hours travelling.
About 5 hours visiting inactive members.
About 2 hours pastoral activities (running cottage meetings / administering to sick / preparing for lessons)
10 hours Teaching the people to be baptised.
So knocking doors / street contacting time would be roughly 60 - 26 = 34.
It cost therefore roughly (180 * 4.2 * 34)/200 = 128 hours to find a new convert - two weeks of solid door knocking / street contacting. Now since those hours are shared by a companionship if you divide that number by 2 it means on average we found a new convert every (128(total proselyting hours per convert)/2(missionary companions))/24(hours in a day) = 2.7 nothing but door knocking days (had we knocked doors 24 hours long!)
er .. I'm naff at maths so don't believe any hourly figures I give you.
 
vitty
vitty 11 years ago


Qcmbr
I wasnt trying to be horrid to you  So HOW did you baptize 74 ppl? I really, really want to know. What is the process you have to go through. From that first knock at the door to being dunked???
 
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 11 years ago

Hi Vitty, I could be glib and say God did it but that wouldn't satisfy I guess:)
OK how to baptise loads of people. Its fairly simple really - you have to believe you can do it. There isn't any greater 'worldy' secret than that. All these self help conferences / firewalking classes etc.. all work on one ultimate principle - if you believe you can do something then its possible.
To clarify its no good saying you can do something when really you don't believe it deep down (ie saying you'll be the best sprinter in the world when your 90 , have had a leg amputated and have a pacemaker isn't going to work!!)
OK so you have someone who is religious which if your really converted to something means you believe right down inside so that bit is solved. Now that's how I am - I hope Tetrapod and Terry etc.. can undertsand where I'm coming from. So now when you have one person feeling like that and then you pair them up with someone else who feels like that you get a sum greater than the parts.
So now you believe totally that God has prepared people to join the 'true' church, you sleep, pray, breathe, bath, discuss and work with that sole focus and belief.This gives you your authority to do what you do.
Now you add to the mix a belief that people actually want to be happy and want to be saved (the same principle as knowing a dam will burst and people will be happy to be woken from their sleep and persuaded to leave after the realise the predicament even if they don't understand and find it annoying right now. Non-believers are just sleepy heads who don't believe the dam even exists.)This gives you focus and urgency.
Now out in this wide world there most people (and here's the controversial bit) are following quite blindly routines, chores, habits, fashions, patterns of thinking etc.. laid down by their social surroundings. Very few people are really 'awake' and aware of what they are doing - most are like zombies - watch people going to work day after day! There are very few genuine moments of real clarity and thought in most of our lives. So when someone comes to the door and gives you a zen moment sometimes people will respond.
Therefore finding people to accept discussions is fairly easy - you just have to ask the right question to stop the automatic 'not interested' responses (let's face it most people are really interested in the purpose of life, supernatural stuff, chewing over philosophy, doctrine, belief etc.. most people want to know the answers even if to them God isn't it.)
That was one of my skills, asking questions that stopped people in their tracks and made them think a bit ( I was quite successful with direct questions such as, Would you like to be baptised? Which of all the churches do you think has the truth? Do you believe in evolution? etc etc..)
Now I guess the nub of your question what is the process - in my day it involved 6 discussions, two interviews, a vist to church and then any time after that baptism by full immersion and the laying on of hands to give the gift of the Holy Ghost. Teaching styles would vary depending on who you were teaching but we'd start with a discussion on God and the plan (why we are here and where we are going) and a challenge to pray to find out whether what we said was true (especially Book of Mormon), in the next lesson we would discuss Jesus and the atonement and then challenge for baptism. Third discussion was First Vision of Joseph Smith and restoration of the Church. Fourth was Word of Wisdom (health Law) and challenge to live it. Fifth was law of chastity (no sex outside marriage) and Tithing (10% income to church), Sixth was enduring to teh end, committment to live a Christlike life and be fully changed to a new way of living. We porabably got 10% of people go through from initial discussion to baptism. It was really fast and then we'd be onto the next family.
As a final bit - apols about preachy bit - we witnessed a lot of very spiritual things were we all felt the same thing so strongly we'd be in tears, we'd leave people a little bit blown away because the experience was so different to eveything they knew before - I'll blow the missionaries trumpet a bit here - no one teaches like a fired up and sincere lds elder. I certainly don't anymore! I'm more focused on earning a wage and looking after my family now than converting anyone!
Finally I actually loved what I did and you can't fake that - if you hate going door to door that is what shows (see point 1 about deceiving yourself and how that doesn't work.) I loved seeing people wake up and thinkspiritually, to question why, how and what they could do - even if the didn't get all religious about it. Most of all though I loved to see peoples lives change for the better - every thing I tried to do was to spread a smile, lift up and improve and that in itself is utterly rewarding - you don't even have to be religious to do it.
 
IronGland
IronGland 11 years ago

At what stage is a new mormon given their 1st pair of sacred underwear?
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
AndersonsInfo
Reveal article: 6 ways religious exemption laws are exploited - Excellent!
by AndersonsInfo 18 days ago
Divergent
Does growing up in a religious family make you MEAN?
by Divergent 4 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Excellent article: Inherited Religiosity: What it means for how nost 'Believers' believe
by AndersonsInfo 2 years ago
wifibandit
Polish BOE Re: Legal matters and revised charter for Poland
by wifibandit 4 months ago
Brother Jeramy
A difficult yet necessary decision
by Brother Jeramy 8 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/95347/mormon-myth-belief-that-church-fastest-growing-faith





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Mormons celebrate 200 years
/  





 

Mormons celebrate 200 years
by oldflame 10 years ago 31 Replies latest 10 years ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20
oldflame
oldflame 10 years ago

Joseph Smith founded the church in 1830, 10 years after he claimed to experience a vision of God and Jesus in a grove of trees near his family home in Palmyra, N.Y. He also said an angel named Moroni led him to a set of buried gold plates that contained the ancient records of Christ's dealings with the inhabitants of the Americas. Smith's translation of the plates became known as the Book of Mormon, the text on which Mormons base their religion.
Smith's original church had just six members, mostly his family, and only 5,000 copies of the Book of Mormon were published at first. He sent out a handful of missionaries.
Today Mormonism has more than 12 million members — half of them outside the United States. Some 130 million copies of the Book of Mormon are circulating in 77 languages.
"If (non-Mormons) care at all about the history of religion in their own country, they should certainly be interested in the influence of Joseph Smith," said Armand Mauss, a professor emeritus of sociology and religious studies at Washington State University, who is currently a visiting scholar at the Claremont Graduate University in California.
The growth of the church since the mid-20th century has helped change the perceptions non-Mormons have of the faith, for the better and for the worse, said Mauss, himself a lifelong church member and a past president of the Mormon History Association.
"The positives are those which see Mormonism as an increasingly legitimate religious tradition, entitled to a certain amount of admiration and appreciation for its unique teachings and lifestyle," he said. "This is also accompanied by more negative feelings as the political and economic influence of the church sometimes looms large."
Attention to the church could grow if Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, a Mormon, decides to seek the Republican presidential nomination in 2008. Some have speculated he could have a hard time winning over Christian conservatives, some of whom do not consider Mormonism to be a Christian religion.
Mormons are viewed largely as ultraconservative because the church has strict lifestyle standards, shunning the use of alcohol, for example, and favoring traditional family practices.
Faithful members also adhere to a standard of tithing 10 percent of their income to the church, which is said to be worth billions but never publicly reports its annual income or expenses.
Hinckley and others were expected to quote from Smith's own writings Friday and offer their personal testimonies of belief.
All I can say is WOW !!!!! what a bunch of dummies...
 
jst2laws
jst2laws 10 years ago

Oldflame-



Mormons-



Steve
 
TresHappy
TresHappy 10 years ago

Best looking Mormon ever...
And he recently became a GRANDFATHER!


 
greendawn
greendawn 10 years ago

This is another masonic inspired religion closely related in spirit to the JWs. Both contrary to what they claim are not Christian and never can be.
 
SomeGeek
SomeGeek 10 years ago

I went to Christmas lighting thing. Of corse we couldn't go in to the temple, rather we went into a visitor's center. Man....similar to JW is not the word! I don't know which one is more abstract?
 
oldflame
oldflame 10 years ago

Isn't that something ? Here is a man and actually a boy who sees God and Jesus Christ and not even a prophet like Moses could even see GOD. It makes me laugh it's so stupid.
 
oldflame
oldflame 10 years ago

Actually I would like to know what Joesph Smith was high on/////
 
ozziepost
ozziepost 10 years ago

I can't see 200 years is worth celebrating.....can you?
BTW christianity has about 2,000 years...kinda leaves it in the shade, doesn't it?
 
Robert K Stock
Robert K Stock 10 years ago

One of my favorite South Park episodes exposes how silly is Mormon history
They even had a little song with the chorus,
"Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb"
 
Wasanelder Once
Wasanelder Once 10 years ago

The Mormons teach that one day they will be Gods. Unfortunately most are not waiting till the afterlife to act like one. They are so self righteous they gag me.
W.Once
 
ozziepost
ozziepost 10 years ago

W.once;
That seems to me to be little different to the dubs' GB who claim they are going to rule all the earth and right now they apply laws that are above "man's laws".
 
oldflame
oldflame 10 years ago

I actually found it to be interesting that they are the fastest growing religion in the world. My question is why ?
 
greendawn
greendawn 10 years ago

That may be because though otherwise the mormons are strict on sexual morals, they allow polygamy and facilitate marriages between men in their 40's and 50's with teenage girls sometimes as young as 14.
http://www.skeptictank.org/utahpedo.htm
 
Dansk
Dansk 10 years ago

Oldflame:
All I can say is WOW !!!!! what a bunch of dummies...
Sadly, that applies to us, too! I look back and think "How on earth could I believe in all that Watchtower garbage?", but I did!
I think so many of the Mormons are as trapped as we were. So many are sincere in their beliefs and genuinely wish to be of help to their fellow man. So many are lied to and enmeshed in a cult. It's all terribly sad.
Ian
 
oldflame
oldflame 10 years ago

Ian,
Yeah man I called myself a dummy for a long time after I left the borg, I am always asking myself how could I be as dumb to believe all that crap. Afterall it is my own fault that I did not investigate the wbts until after I left the borg. But today it's all good and I have learned so much and very glad I did thanks to people like you............God Bless friend and I hope your doing well....
 
Wasanelder Once
Wasanelder Once 10 years ago

Ozzie,
I understand your point, though I believe that the GB only holds sway over morons here on earth who accept thier authority. For the LDS the R/F have that air about them. They really treat you as if you are lower in thier heavenly caste system now, not later. It is a self exalting religion at best. The R/F witness is so full of guilt that, on the whole, they dont feel superior. Tis the ones with such "wonderful" knowledge that seem to be snobs. The general witness just wants to get by till the big A.
Any religious nut is a jerk either way.
W.Once
 
oldflame
oldflame 10 years ago

wasanelder once,
Any religious nut is a jerk either way.
Hey all you fellow lovers of the Lord, I guess we are all just a bunch of jerks according to wasanelder once. I'll remember that one there pal..............
 
stillajwexelder
stillajwexelder 10 years ago

Hell I never knew Donny Osmond was a grandfather
 
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 10 years ago

Merry Christmas from a 'nut', 'dummy' etc..
Let's not fight today.
Just remember the core of Christianity (and hopefully humanity) is not division nor contention. Christians remember that Jesus came for everyone, religious or not - no one gets extra special favours because they believe a certain way - the rain still falls on us all and the sun wakes us all up.
 
oldflame
oldflame 10 years ago

Qcmbr,

AMEN..............
 

«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
Wonderment
John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2
by Wonderment 3 months ago
The Searcher
A First Stepping-Stone For Bethelites & Lurkers?
by The Searcher 6 months ago
Wonderment
How credible are NWT's critiques?: Allin and John 8:58. (2)
by Wonderment a month ago
Wonderment
How credible are NWT critiques? A look at Allin's evaluation of Jn 8:58.
by Wonderment a month ago
blondie
Blondie's Highlights from 11-15-2015 WT (FAITH)
by blondie 4 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/104266/mormons-celebrate-200-years





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Mormons celebrate 200 years
/  





 

Mormons celebrate 200 years
by oldflame 10 years ago 31 Replies latest 10 years ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20
gumby
gumby 10 years ago

"The positives are those which see Mormonism as an increasingly legitimate religious tradition, entitled to a certain amount of admiration and appreciation for its unique teachings and lifestyle," he said
So because they have a heretical unique teaching and lifestyle......they are to be admired? If that's true then the witnesses and moonies should also be admired.
Wasanelder Once,
I disagree with you that the witnesses are so full of guilt they do not act superior to their fellowman. They wholeheartedly believe all of their fellow man will be dead soon and they alone ( the witnesses ) will be alive to watch them all go down. Did you not feel "superior" or "above" every householder you talked to?
Gumby
 
Wasanelder Once
Wasanelder Once 10 years ago

Old Flame:
Any religious nut is a jerk either way.
Hey all you fellow lovers of the Lord, I guess we are all just a bunch of jerks according to wasanelder once. I'll remember that one there pal..............
First Old Flame,
A religious nut to me is someone so out of balance with reality that they force thier psychotic religious view on others without allowance for personal choice. This has been my experience in the Mormon "Missionary training" town I live in. So to me any religious nut is a jerk. Its a matter of terms. I'm sure you'd agree that those who inflict thier view on others are jerks. Sharing is fine when appropriate, but to treat others as if they were a part of your religious community when they are not, or to treat them as if your condemnation by your theology is legitimate and not waiting for God to execute it, is at best annoying. So, its your choice and mine if we want our faith to make us a jerk. 
Wasanelder Once , 
I disagree with you that the witnesses are so full of guilt they do not act superior to their fellowman. They wholeheartedly believe all of their fellow man will be dead soon and they alone ( the witnesses ) will be alive to watch them all go down. Did you not feel "superior" or "above" every householder you talked to? 
Gumby,
Blanket statements never fare well do they? Sorry for being so general about the guilt thing. I do believe that those witnesses I dealt with had great guilt and were'nt looking forward to the destruction of thier neighbor. They busted their ass to help others. Sure it was partly an ego thing to be of help to others on some level, but that's life isn't it? 
I did not feel superior to the householders that I spoke to. In fact I bought the whole Apostle Paul thingy about being a debtor to all men. My whole approach was from the standpoint of helping others, not because I was superior, but because I perceived thier being in danger. I had to warn them of the danger from this "System of things" (insert gagging sound) and the "fear inspiring day of Jehovah". (gulp at my own gullibility). I did not look forward to the death of anyone I spoke to. Hey, I was really doing this according to the heart that's why I was sucked in for so long. And yes, Oldflame, the same reason I was a religious nut to some degree. I didn't judge them. Sadly, I converted at least 10 people to Dubdum. I was an over acheiver due mostly to my sincerity and genuine concern for people. This was my life. Now I have come to have a real life where I don't go to people's houses to tell them to shape up or get shipped out! I help my friends on a one on one basis.
Peace brothers. To each his own, really, no condemnation.
W.Once

 
Seeker4
Seeker4 10 years ago

The Mormon leaders were here in Vermont all this past week, because this is where Joseph Smith is from and where it all began. Historically, it seems, he was a notorious con man who finally found a con that has worked for a long, long time!
For the last year I've worked with a 21 year old Mormon girl, who, like myself, was divorced this year and also left her religion. We had many a talk about the similarities in our religious backgrounds and the two churches. Her last day on the job was Friday. Going back to college.
Good girl! I wrote in the card we gave her - "from a divorced ex-JW to a divorced ex-LSD."
S4
 
fairchild
fairchild 10 years ago

I have an idea. Why don't a bunch of us get together.. we can make up a story about how we were walking in the woods and one of God's prohets appeared to us. He gave us the knowledge to write down the real truth (here we make up our own bible which will suit two purposes.. we will write according to OUR needs and we will tell people exactly what they want to hear. Then we get the book published and start our religion. We;ll get the show on the road within a year. Given the right kind of promotion and the right connections, we can be rich in about 10 years. To bypass the feelings of guilt which could develop in our minds, we make sure that the members of our church live the lives of good people, and we can include in the rules that they have to perform one good deed towards a stranger each month.
 
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 10 years ago

Of course Firchild you'd need to be willing to die for it as well.
 
fairchild
fairchild 10 years ago

Ouch, no, I wouldn't die for it, I'd just keep making things up and stay alive. I have an incredible imagination. Are you in?
 
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 10 years ago

I'm totally happy with the mad religion I'm in at the moment but if I ever get disenchanted I'll give you a buzz - but only if I get a cut of the profits:wink:
 
fairchild
fairchild 10 years ago

As soon as I get rich I will give you a cut of the profits, I don't mind sharing at all.
I just came up with an idea for my next book.. someone starts a religion with the sole idea of getting rich. Development of false doctrines and mind control.. then he/she gets rich indeed and starts to feel guilty.. wants to eliminate the religion, admits it was all made up.. *mental note* must find good ending.
 
hooberus
hooberus 10 years ago

I handed out christain literature to LDS people this summer at Nauvoo Illinois during their pageant celebration of the 200th year since the birth of Joseph Smith. I also attended a LDS reading of the King Follett Discourse by the actor playing Jeseph Smith in the pageant. I followed along with the copy of the discourse in the LDS Church's Joseph Smith History book. While the whole sermon was condensed somewhat the controversial parts of the sermon (ie: Smith's teaching that God the Father was not always God- but instead that He was once a man, etc.) were virtually all omitted. For the complete sermon see:
http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/sermons_talks_interviews/kingfolletsermon.htm
 
RevFrank
RevFrank 10 years ago

it's my opinion, but joe smith needed to have a reason to have sex with plenty of women, including married women, so he came up with this Mormon thing.
Back in the 60s, "Hippy era," I was looking to incorporate sexual play into a religion. Then someone came around and told me that Joe Smith..LDS (Mormons) already did that. That was a bad scene and bummer for a whole year. I went on a bad trip for awhile.....you know..way out and it wasn't grovy........
 
RubaDub
RubaDub 10 years ago

On a positive Note,

They are great people to talk to when you are planning to buy a new bike.
Rub a Dub
 
Check_Your_Premises
Check_Your_Premises 10 years ago

*mental note* must find good ending.
How about after he tries to end the religion when his conscience awakens, their is a group that refuses to believe it. A new leader arises calling him a "prophet turned apostate". The group goes on without him in a mindless rampage of deciet and lies. He is a destroyed man having lost his group and his soul.
The story needs redemption though. He could start off as a kid with some sort of decent religious upbringing through a grandmother maybe. It doesn't take for him. He is taken in by bad influences and is a natural hustler. He sees what his grandmother taught as a way to hustle.
Bookend it in the ending by having him somehow return to that original upbringing in a simple, true, and honest sense. Leave his group to go on to highlight the self-sustaining nature of these self-congratulating religions are, and to show the damage caused by one mans weakness. He thought he was in control, but he unleashed forces beyond his control.
CYP
 

«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
joseph smith founded the church in 1830, 10 years after he claimed to experience a vision of god and jesus in a grove of trees near his family home in palmyra, n.y. he also said an angel named moroni led him to a set of buried gold plates that contained the ancient records of christ's dealings with the inhabitants of the americas.
smith's translation of the plates became known as the book of mormon, the text on which mormons base their religion.. smith's original church had just six members, mostly his family, and only 5,000 copies of the book of mormon were published at first.
he sent out a handful of missionaries.. today mormonism has more than 12 million members half of them outside the united states.



Related Topics
Wonderment
John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2
by Wonderment 3 months ago
The Searcher
A First Stepping-Stone For Bethelites & Lurkers?
by The Searcher 6 months ago
Wonderment
How credible are NWT's critiques?: Allin and John 8:58. (2)
by Wonderment a month ago
Wonderment
How credible are NWT critiques? A look at Allin's evaluation of Jn 8:58.
by Wonderment a month ago
blondie
Blondie's Highlights from 11-15-2015 WT (FAITH)
by blondie 4 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/104266/mormons-celebrate-200-years?page=2&size=20






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Mormonism - a few points
/  





 

Mormonism - a few points
by Amazing 14 years ago 26 Replies latest 14 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20
Amazing
Amazing 14 years ago


Mormonism is an enigma. They extol higher education, then turn right around and insult education by their FARMs archeology site sponsored by BYU. Just how this religion ever got by as far as they did is beyond me. Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham was thoroughly discredited by experts in Egyptian writing and history ... it was published in a Dec 1912 full page article in the NY Times ... I have a full copy.
Study Mormonism: I have studied a measure of this religion on and off for 25 years. Then, after leaving the JWs, I was able to engage Mormon Missionaries more directly and attend their church for a time. I did not do so with the idea of joining ... the JWs burned that out of me ... but I wanted to know about them more, out of curiosity. So ... Some years ago, I had Mormon Missionaries visit me for 6 months, then again for another 6 months after I moved back to Oregon. (they are supposed to keep the study program to 6 weeks). Ha ha ... not with me ... though much of this is their problem because they change out missionaries every two to three weeks ... so that I often had to start over with the next set of missionaries.
The Book of Mormon (BOM): I argued with the Mormons that the foundation of their religion is based on the BOM, and we need to go through it ... I practically had to hog-tie them, because contrary to popular opinion, Mormons do not want to study the BOM, but they prefer their little 6 lesson plan and to prove that they can use the Bible. Still, I finally got these people into the BOM ... and with a little careful effort, you can unravel the lunacy, inconsistency, and fraud of the BOM ... it shoots itself in the foot ... the BOM is a very poor effort at fiction ... I would not be surprised if some budding writer wrote it, and when he tried to get it published, the publishing companies turned him down so much, they he gave up and tossed it in the trash ... then Joey Smith was rummaging around and found it. This might have been the case. Supposedly there was a belief at one time that Spalding was the author, and Smith stole the manuscript, but this has never been proven. Average Mormons have very little comprehension as to what the BOM really says.
Mormon Secret Ceremonies: The other night, when our ex-Mormon friends supplied the link to a live recording of a Mormon Endowment Ceremony, where young Mormon men and women are anointed into Priest and Priestess, I was able to listen to much of it ... it sounds like a scene from an Indiana Jones Temple of Doom animal sacrifice movie ... listening to these guys chant adulation to Jehovah's name sent chills up my apostate spine.  ... I would love to read what Farkel has to say about the ceremony! I know some of the words he would use. LOL It appears that Joey Smith and Chucky Russell both had love of Egyptology in common ... and it is almost as if these two religions were spawned by an underlying conspiracy ... but, I hate claims of conspiracy, so I guess it is just a coincidence.
Tithing and love of Money: Mormons are supposed to support at least two different funds, each costing them 10% of their income (although several Mormon Missionaries have touted 3 funds, each costing 10% to a Mormon ... so, after the Feds and State takes their 50%, and the Mormon Church takes its 20% to 30%, a Mormon is left with about 20% to live on ... LOL ... Just to get their "Temple Recommend" you must prove to your Bishop via pay stubs and bank statements that you have given a basic 10% ... so that one's full spiritual participation is based on filthy lucre. I confronted the Mormon Missionaries with this ... and they just acted embarassed.
Watchtower & Mormon Connection: What surprised me was a few years ago, maybe about 7 to 9 years, the WTS came out with an article in the Watchtower magazine praising Joseph Smith, after all the years the Watchtower badmouthed the Mormon beliefs, they started sounding really chummy ... and another interesting piece of information: In Richland, Washington, the Mormon church donated land to build the new Kingdom Hall there ... that took place somewhere in the early 1990s ... the land was part of the Mormon Church property ... so the Kingdom Hall sits right next to the Mormon Church ... two peas in a pod ... I will not be surprised if one day these two religions merge.
Interesting Evidence: Some years ago, I obtained a research paper written by a JW. He studied many Mormon beliefs, documented the source references, and then took his work to a Mormon Stake Patriarch, who not only verified the material but added two more pages to the paper. The names and addresses of these people are stated for the record ... in that work, the Mormon beliefs are exposed as utterly sickening ... this is where the sources show that Brigham Young believed that Adam was God, the "only God with whoim they have to do." ... other material I have quote Joey Smith as saying that he is greater than Jesus Christ ... so, if anyone wants, I will quote or copy and scan these and post them.
 
Sentinel
Sentinel 14 years ago


Amazing,
Thanks for your post. Aside from working with a lady who is Mormon, I really know very little. I had been wanting to get the book of Mormon just to research, and be somewhat knowledgeable about them for discussion purposes. Years ago, they came to our home when I was still in High School, and we had some interesting conversations.
We saw an ad on TV last night for a free copy of their book, so I called to get one sent to me. Then they wanted to arrange for a "visit", which I promptly turned down. The young lady who spoke to me had born into the Mormon beliefs, and she was Mormon borg, through and through. Very nice though, and I think I did get some major points across to her.
I suggested to her that she really needs to find her "own truth". That she should never take anything for granted. And to question everything and anything, because that is the only way she will figure life out for herself. (It seemed to please her that I was a former JW  The Mormons are growing in our area here, as well as JW's, who have building plans submitted for two new structures.
Sentinel
 
Salud
Salud 14 years ago


Amazing,
In the age of mega-mergers, airlines, banks etc, it would not surprise me to see a JW/LDS merger. But who would be president??
Anyway good points made esp. w/ the tithing. I knew Mormons who were members in GOOD standing not because they were regulars at their church but because they were regular with their tithings and they were of sizable amounts.
 
Kenneson
Kenneson 14 years ago


Amazing,
I am interested in your source and quote of what Joe Smith had to say about his greatness. Please post it. Thanks.
 
Amazing
Amazing 14 years ago

Hi Kenneson: Okay, I'll dig in my Mormon box later today and see what I drag up ... Joey Smith and Brigham Young said some really cool stuff in the JOD ... you would be amazed.
 
mr party
mr party 14 years ago

when talking to mormons, i would open to the last page, of the book of mormon, find where it says jehovah, to show them how much we had in common, thay were surprised most of the time.
 
Double Edge
Double Edge 14 years ago


I know the poster QUANTUM got a lot of people worked up with his in-your-face postings on Mormanism. I said it before, he opened himself up with the intelligent responses, however I still hate people bashing other peoples religions. I came on this board to learn why my JW friend is the they are...now I know. But never have I bashed them for their religious beliefs - I felt that I had no right to speak, never being a JW - I left that for those of you who left the religion and who had first hand experience.
Amazing: When I first came on this board, I read with 'amazement' (no pun intended) your serialized account of how you joined the JW's, the years you spent in it and the monumental task it took to finally rid yourself. I loved your writing and put your name on my short list of those whose posts I looked forward to reading.... I'm sorry to say this wasn't one of them.
I've looked into the LDS religion, and I must say it isn't the one that is so abundantly shrouded in the evil darkness as portrayed on this board. What I've read here, and what I've experienced is like night and day. It makes me wonder if a lot of the comments come from a deeply biased mindset of the hurt experienced as former JW members.
Your statement regarding Tithing is totally inacurate, and therefore brings into question the validity of all your assertions. This is one topic that I DO know about and double checked as to the facts. First of all, there are not 3 tithing categories, only one. Ten percent on your "increase". Some Mormans understand that to mean 10% on your gross, others on the net income. There is NO set policy, and from what I understand, even Mormans debate that amongs themselves.
Secondly, once a month, on a Sunday, Mormans fast for a couple of meals, and the money that is suppose to have been saved, goes into what is called a Fast Offering. There is no set amount, and certainly NOT 10%. I supposed if you saved two Taco Bell meals your offering would be about $4.00. That money goes into their Welfare System...which by the way, Mormans in financial trouble are suppose to go to their Church first, before the government. Last night, one of the morman bashers said that the church goes to their house once a month, and some elderly lady owed them $90,000. How guillible is anyone on this board to believe that sh*t!
Lastly, you mentioned a 3rd 10% that was owed. I've been told that up until a few years ago, some people in their congregations paid what was called a budget collection, for the local upkeep of their church facilities- that was discontinued. Now the MAJOR point I want to make in correcting this misinformation, is that as a Morman if you pay or don't pay into any of those funds, no one is going after you, or looking down at you as "spiritually weak" or "bad association" or not "mature". You can't be D/A'd, D/F'd or even discovered, because it isn't common knowledge among the congregation what you do or don't pay...they don't pass the plate around.
One last point, you mentioned something in the first paragraph or so, that you took their study lessons from their missonaries with no intention of ever joining..in fact, it sounds like you did it to 'nail' them on their 'different theology' ok, whatever...but in doing so, with that mindset, could anything they ever said or did would have been correct? It sounds like the upstopable force/immoveable object conundum...and what a waste of time.
 
Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ 14 years ago

Man, those people are a bunch of nuts. I can't even begin to describe what a laugh dad, the angels, and I get out of what they put out. Its amazing what some of you people will believe.
 
refiners fire
refiners fire 14 years ago


Amazing.
The situation with the mormon missionaries is very interesting.
I dont know that it is planned to work out as it does, but the effect of their method is to create psychic confusion.
Yes, they rotate around on you in their visits like crazy, so you are constantly dealing with new people. They spring surprises on you like inviting you to study with them somewhere and you roll up and there are 12 people there unexpectedly.They also jump you around. One get together with the missionaries they had me go to two seperate houses both of which had messages directing me to go else where for the meeting. it was like an Easter egg hunt.The effect of this is to create disorientation in the mind of the recruitee.
They also RUSHED me into baptism within a week of meeting me for the first time. Baptism is only a first step in a whole tier of "obedience" practises on the stairway to heavenly glory.The story of how I got baptized into the MoMos is a tale in itself. They applied intense psychological pressure onto me to commit to baptism. This was done in front of a group of eager smiling concerned Momos, all of whom "loved" me very dearly.
Harrassing phone calls, phone calls at 11pm. It all happened in Mormon recruitment technique.
Pretty interesting stuff.
 
Double Edge
Double Edge 14 years ago

J.C. ... I have real strong doubts that you are who you say you are...but if you are for real, don't expect a lot of respect from some here. Several posters here deny that you're devine and think that the religion that follows your teachings and the Bible's is as bogus as the book of Morman.
 
Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ 14 years ago

You can believe in me if you wish. I can tell that most people are good so that's all that's really needed. As for the bible, I'll be the first to admit its a load of crap. Dad wrote one night when we had been drinking heavily. We're amazed that so many people actually believe everything in it!
 
SusanHere
SusanHere 14 years ago


I must agree with Double Edge that I really hate people who bash other people's religions. If you want to bash your own, or the one you left, feel free. But to bash the religions of others just smacks of you having a "deeply biased mindset" (towards any and all religion).
I know many of you have been hurt by religion in the past, but to assume that because of your experience all religions must necessarily be equally destructive is really absurd. If I said I hate all (pick any minority) because I saw a drunk one once and they're everyone knows they're all like that, you'd jump all over me for such illogical thinking. Yet you do the same to other religions and people tend to just lap it up and beg for more.
Double Edge is right, too, that to say you've looking into a religion for x number of years means nothing if all you were trying to do was to "nail them on their different theology". No wonder God judges on the heart and not on externals. You can carry all the church membership cards you feel like toting around, but none of them mean zilch if all they are is evidence you are on somebody's list. What counts is what is in your heart, your mind, your soul, and how those things translate into action towards your fellow man (woman, child, animal, earth, etc.).
Amazing -- Interesting name. But not an amazing posting. BOM is not fiction. It is not "easily unraveled". And yes, the average Mormon has excellent comprehension as to what it has to say.
As for the recording of our temple ceremonies, we do not chant. There are no chants. We do not chant to Jehovah's name in the temple. The recording was false.
Double Edge covered your mistakes with the tithing doctrine. It is 10%. Period. And it is between you and the Bishop. Nobody else is involved. And nobody is forced to pay. And there is no "proving" with pay stubs. I've never yet shown a bishop a pay stub or a tax receipt. Many full-fledged members are not paying full or even part tithing for reasons I won't bother to list here.
My sister sent me a WT that supposedly was more positive towards Mormonism. She thought I'd be impressed at how unbiased it was. Took me a long time to respond to her. When I did, I was kinder than the article deserved. Though it started out pleasantly enough, it soon degenerated into the typical mudslinging expected from that publication whenever it "covers" anything about Mormonism. It was NOT a positive article.
Emperor Class -- you said when talking to mormons you would open to the last page of the BOM where it says Jehovah, and they were surprised most of the time. What would they supposedly be surprised about? Do you think we don't use the name of Jehovah? We do. Do we use it as JWs do? No.
As to the poster who said he was "rushed" into baptism in a week after a "disorienting" whirlwind of "Easter egg hunt" surprise meeting changes and intense psychological pressure...Sorry, but that's utter garbage. They don't have any desire to trick anyone into baptism, nor do they baptize anyone who doesn't pass several interviews with several different people indicating full understanding and willing intention to actually become a member. And how did you manage to get six lessons in one week? Plus the interviews? My missionary sons have refused to baptize people many times, because the people were not ready, or hadn't cleared up some matter, or the missionaries didn't feel the timing was right.
Harassing phone calls? No. Calls at 11 pm -- not from the missionaries. They are in bed before then. Mission rules. Church-wide. Obviously, you are one of those with an agenda that doesn't include attention to accuracy. I hope you are happier in whatever religion you went to next.
I really don't mind honest criticism, or people stating what they themselves experienced and so believe to be the truth for everyone involved in the religion. Not every religion is going to meet everyone's needs. That's why there are so many to choose from. Find the one you like, and leave the others alone. If you really need to rip one apart, at least be sure it is one you were a member of long enough to actually have the lowdown on that church. Is this really too much to expect?
Susan
 
Double Edge
Double Edge 14 years ago

Well said Susan, well said!. You sound like the Mormans I know - intelligent, articulate, very normal and "cool"....not the half-crazed, in-your-face recent poster who went by the name QUANTUM.
 
Matt_exmo
Matt_exmo 14 years ago


Susan, he did not -being fair- mention 11pm calls from Missionaries. Have you never had 11pm phone calls from fellow Mormons? Then count yourself lucky. You have not seen peopled rushed into baptism within a very short period of time? Again, count yourself lucky. I think it depends -in part- on the Mission President. Some of them are sensible, others gungho, "get them to commit to baptism as soon as you can and baptise 'e m by the dozen!" types.
BTW, I'd have to argue with you. I believe that the BOM is nothing but a work of fiction.
Edited by - Matt_exmo on 18 July 2002 21:26:10
 
joenobody
joenobody 14 years ago

I'd like to challenge your statements Susan - saying the BOM is not "easily unravelled" as Amazing says. Have you looked into the history behind the BOM? Do you know about it's connections to transcribed mistakes from early KJV versions of the Bible? Ask a Mormon just which of the many versions of Doctrines and Covenants is the correct one. Also, get back to me on the Book of Abraham... err Egyptian Book of the Dead! Finally, just where are those gold plates? Seems like an awful thing to have lost. Please tell me about the extent of your research.
 
zev
zev 14 years ago


you mean this article????

---

*** g95 11/8 17-18 A Young Man's Search for Answers *** A Young Mans Search for Answers
THE morning sun shone brightly, filtering down through the trees to a boy kneeling in fervent prayer. Fourteen-year-old Joseph was confused by the religious tumult of his time. Traditional churches were racked with division. New sects were everywhere. Which group should he join? On bended knee he asked: Who of all these parties are right; or, are they all wrong together? If any one of them be right, which is it, and how shall I know it?
Thus Joseph Smith described his early spiritual crisis. Little wonder he was confused. This was rural northeastern America in the early 19th century, a region ablaze with religious fervor. Hope was sorely needed. Many farmers struggled with a life as hard as the rocky soil they plowed. Yearning for something better, they were tantalized by tales of buried Indian treasure. So they combed the hills, armed with magic seer stones, incantations, and divining rods. Local legends told of a great Indian civilization that perished in a terrible battle somewhere in New York State.
Popular preachers of the day fanned the fires of speculation, saying that the American Indians were descended from the lost ten tribes of Israel. In 1823, for example, Ethan Smith wrote the book View of the Hebrews; or the Tribes of Israel in America.
Golden Plates and a Prophet
Raised in this fertile climate of folklore and religious ardor was young Joseph Smith. His family too was caught up in the excitement. Josephs mother wrote of their experiencing healings, miracles, and visions. But when she and some of the children joined a church, Joseph refused to follow. Later, in his life story, he wrote of his prayer for help and the answer he received.
Joseph told of a vision in which God forbade him to join any of the sects because they were all in error. Then, one autumn day in 1823, the 17-year-old Smith told his family that an angel named Moroni had shown him a set of ancient golden plates. Four years later he claimed he was given the plates and the exclusive divine power to translate them, which required using a special stone called a seer stone and a pair of magic silver spectaclestwo smooth three-cornered diamonds set in glass. It meant instant death for others to see the plates at that time, Smith warned.
Smith, who could read but not write well, dictated the translation of the plates to several scribes. Sitting behind a curtain, he related a story said to be compiled by a Hebrew man named Mormon. The plates were inscribed in reformed Egyptian writing, Smith explained, which was more compact than Hebrew. Mormon and his son Moroni were described as being among the last survivors of a people called the Nephite nation, fair-skinned descendants of Hebrews said to have migrated to America about 600 B.C.E. to escape Jerusalems destruction.
The account relates that Jesus had appeared to this nation in America after his death and resurrection and had chosen 12 Nephite apostles. The Lamanites, a people also of Hebrew descent, were rebellious and warlike and so were cursed by God with dark skin. Mormons account principally chronicled the ongoing battles between these two nations. The Nephites grew wicked and eventually were annihilated by the Lamanites, who were ancestors of the American Indians.
According to Smith, Mormons son, now the spirit Moroni, had given him the record on golden plates and the commission leading to the restoration of Christs church. Smith soon had a following. A prosperous believer financed the publishing of Smiths manuscript called The Book of Mormon. It appeared in print in the spring of 1830. Two weeks later, Joseph Smith announced his official title: Seer, a Translator, a Prophet, an Apostle of Jesus Christ. On April 6, 1830, the Mormon Church, or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, was born.
Smith had a commanding presence that won the devotion of many converts. But his unconventional religion also made enemies. The fledgling church was hounded; its members fled from New York to Ohio and then to Missouri in search of its New Jerusalem. As prophet, Smith uttered revelation after revelation, pronouncing Gods will on matters ranging from financial donations to a divine mandate to take multiple wives. This latter revelation particularly spawned much persecution. Faced with suspicion and antagonism at every turn, the Mormons took up arms to defend themselves.
The intrigue and turmoil that marked the early years of Joseph Smiths life never abated. Frontier towns, inundated with influxes of Smiths followers, put up stiff resistance. They had use neither for another sacred book nor for a self-proclaimed prophet. Then, in 1839, to the dismay of the local populace, the Mormons established a thriving colony, with its own mills, factory, university, and militia, in Nauvoo, Illinois. When hostilities erupted, Smith was arrested and jailed in Carthage, Illinois. There, on June 27, 1844, a mob raided the jail and shot and killed him.
The Church Survives Its Prophet
The story by no means ends with Joseph Smiths death. Brigham Young, president of the Council of the Twelve Apostles, quickly assumed command and led many believers on a perilous journey to the Great Salt Lake valley in Utah, where the Mormon headquarters are to this day.
The church founded by Joseph Smith continues to attract converts, with, according to LDS sources, some nine million members worldwide. It has spread far beyond its cradle in New York State to places as diverse as Italy, the Philippines, Uruguay, and Zaire. Despite continued antagonism, the remarkable Mormon Church has prospered. Is it, indeed, the restoration of true Christianity for which men of faith have waited?
[Footnotes]
Historians later dubbed this area in western New York State the burned-over district because of the waves of short-lived religious revivals that swept the region during the early 1800s.
Originally named The Church of Christ, on April 26, 1838, it became The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or LDS. Though LDS is the designation preferred by members, the name Mormon (derived from The Book of Mormon) is also used in this series of articles, since it is the more familiar term to many readers.
There are various groups that have broken away from the LDS, who also call themselves Mormons. Principal among them is the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, with headquarters in Independence, Missouri.
[Picture Credit Line on page 17]
Photo: Courtesy Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints/Dictionary of American Portraits/Dover

 
Double Edge
Double Edge 14 years ago


I believe that the BOM is nothing but a work of fiction.
Ok, maybe, but then again numerous people on this board agree the the Bible too is a work of fiction, so I guess it's in good company.
Finally, just where are those gold plates?
Could they be in the same place as the original scrolls from the Books of the Bible?
Edited by - Double Edge on 19 July 2002 18:6:34
 
julien
julien 14 years ago


SusanHere: Amazing wrote that pay stubs (or equivalent) were required to get "Temple Recommend". In effect you must prove you tithed 10% before getting this status or whatever it is. Are you saying that is not the case?
Also: SusanHere or Double Edge please explain why the BOM has the transcription mistakes from the KJV in it.
Also: I once heard that one of the BOM chapters was stolen, and Smith was unable to reproduce it, so he instead replaced it with a paraphase type thing. Is this true?
 
Crazy151drinker
Crazy151drinker 14 years ago


Double Edge + Susan
My best friend is Mormon. He and his Cousin bash other religions NON STOP!! Catholics this, Islam that, We are the only right ones.. blah blah blah
Talk about pressure! All they do is pressure confused people into joining. QUANTEM is not unique.
The issue of Mormon questionable/fake origins goes way beyond the plates that no one has ever seen. There is not one thread of Archeological proof that any kindom/people/city in the book fo Mormon ever existed. You can go to Isreal and see the cities and places that were mentioned in the Bible. Nothing that is mentioned in the book of Mormon has ever been found!! Why arnt the Mormons looking for these great cities???? The American Indians have never heard of these grand kingdoms or people and they have been here for thousands of years!
Even if you do not believe in Jesus as a mesiah, you can still go to his birthplace. The Pharohs, and Egypt, and Jerusilum, the red sea, the sea of galileah, etc. etc.. all are talked about in the bible and all have proven to exist and many still exist today! Where is Aroms kingdom in North America?? Why are there no people, no buildings, nothing????
The Mormon religion has more holes than swiss cheese :smile:
Lets not even get into how we were all angels, how we can be gods and create our own worlds.....
I find it funny that they use the same example as the JWs about the cross "would you wear a gun on your neck if your father was murded....blah blah blah"
 
Double Edge
Double Edge 14 years ago


Also: SusanHere or Double Edge please explain why the BOM has the transcription mistakes from the KJV in it.
Got me, but I'll ask around...I assume KJV is King James.
 

«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
KiddingMe
Police: Teen killed in N.Y. church assault wanted out
by KiddingMe 5 months ago
Defianttruth
Help to build a "Guide to Your New Faith"
by Defianttruth a month ago
OrphanCrow
Deaf Aotearoa flooded with complaints about Jehovah's Witness church
by OrphanCrow 5 months ago
JakeM2012
The extent that desperate cults will go to keep control of their youth
by JakeM2012 5 months ago
oppostate
Jehovah's Witnesses 'ordered destruction' of notes which could have been used during child sexual abuse inquiry
by oppostate a month ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/32031/mormonism-few-points






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Mormonism - a few points
/  





 

Mormonism - a few points
by Amazing 14 years ago 26 Replies latest 14 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20
Double Edge
Double Edge 14 years ago

Crazy: If your best friend is Morman, why don't you ask them the archeological questions? I'm sure they've been asked before...let us know what he/she says, because I'm interested in the answer. But you do bring up something I remember studying when I was a teenager. There was no proof that there ever existed the city of Jericho. Then about 10 or 15 years ago they found it - a site that they believe to be it. Also, I was watching the a cable show a few weeks ago (History Channel or Discovery) and up until very recently, there was no evidence that Joseph, the Pharoahs Overseer ever existed in Egypt. In fact, there was no proof that the Hebrews were ever in Egypt as slaves. This from a nation that kept fairly accurate records. What's that all about. But I am going to look on the internet for the other stuff you brought up
 
Crazy151drinker
Crazy151drinker 14 years ago


Double:
They gave me either : God destroyed them all or read the book of Mormon and you will understand. And this is from a Mormon who missioned for 2 years! QUANTEM posted that there was evidence that the Mayans were the great kingdom mentioned. Yeah right! Im not saying that 100% of everything in the bible is correct. Hey, were talking a couple of thousand years of history here! But there are MANY things in it that A: have proved to have happened B: Still exist!
Nothing in the Book of Mormon exists! Its Bull!
Also look into the Animals in the Book of Mormon. Somewhere it mentions animals that the Europeans brought over in the 1500's!
 
Double Edge
Double Edge 14 years ago


Mormans believe that Jesus visited the "new world" after his resurrection, or so their Book of Morman claims, to which numerous posters have said there is no 'shred' of any evidence as to it being real. I don't know if it's real or not, but I just spent the last hour on the internet researching "Aztecs belief in Christ"...several references came up, including one from the El Paso City College:
http://www.epcc.edu/ftp/Homes/monicaw/borderlands/17_aztec_beliefs.htm
Some interesting highlights:
"Gugumatz, Kukulcan, Viracocha, Votan, Quetzalcoatl - all are names for one god common to Mesoamerican peoples before the arrival of Columbus and other Europeans. The Toltecs, Mayans, Incas, Aztecs and other tribes worshipped many gods they believed directed various aspects of their lives, but archaeologists and historians have concluded that the figure called by these different names is probably one and the same.
According to legend, Quetzalcoatl, as he was known in Mexico, taught the natives their religion, art and science. Mesoamerican reverence for this god helped prepare the way for Hernn Corts and other European explorers to conquer the New World.
Quetzalcoatl, like some gods in other mythologies, was part human and part god. Some believe Quetzalcoatl's father was the god Mixcoatl, known as Sky Father of Cloud Serpent. Others see his father as a sun god. The Aztecs believed that his mother, a virgin named Chimalma, became pregnant by swallowing an emerald and them giving birth in the year 1-Reed. Being part human and part god made Quetzalcoatl grow to be very wise and cultured.
Legends say that Quetzalcoatl was tall and light-skinned, with blonde hair and a beard, in contrast to the natives who were short, dark skinned and dark haired. He is said to have worn a long, flowing robe. Quetzalcoatl was special because he was a god of creation. The Incas believed that he made the sun, moon, stars, and planets. The Mayans believed that with Tepeu, another god, he helped create the earth, mountains, streams and all animals. But his fines creation was man because other forms of life could not think about and worship their creator. ....
The Mesoamericans believed that Quetzalcoatl lived on earth with the people who worshiped him, teaching religion, moral, art and science. He brought good laws and sound doctrine, as well as prosperity to the people. One Aztec poem says, "Truly with him it began, truly from him it flowed out, from Quetzalcoatl all art and knowledge."
On earth, Quetzalcoatl was regarded as a saintly and good man, who taught the natives to avoid bad habits and sin. He introduced baptism to the Mesoamericans as a form of penance. Ixtlilxochitl, an Aztec poet, says that Quetzalcoatl reverenced the cross and taught that through fasting, humans could overcome their passions and dishonesty.
Quetzalcoatl bought beauty to the land and taught through art that beauty could be applied to all surroundings. Mexican scholar Angel Garibay says that all types of beautiful colored singing birds come to the land at the time of Quetzalcoatl's life on earth. He helped build new cities with beautiful houses of silver, green stones, white and colored shell, turquoise, and exquisite feathers.
As the god of sciences, Quetzalcoatl taught the Aztecs astronomy and gave them their calendar. He taught the natives how to work with metals and also gave them their writing. Thus the people prospered, never lacking for anything including gold, which was so available that it was worthless. Crops were huge and the harvests always prosperous. The people were happy.
Legends do not agree on why Quetzalcoatl left his people and the land, taking all prosperity with him. Poet Ixtlilxochitl wrote that he left because the people paid very little attention to his teachings.
He traveled to the east and told the people that he would return in the future. But before he did, the natives would suffer and would be persecuted. At the eastern coast, Quetzalcoatl sailed away on a raft of serpents and the people looked forward to his return.
It is no wonder, then, that the Indians were not surprised when Hernn Corts arrived in Mexico. When he entered the country in 1519, the Aztecs were living in a "ce catl" or 1-reed year, a potential time for their god Quetzalcoatl to return. Like him, Corts landed ashore on a raft o boat. And Corts was tall, bearded and light-skinned. With him were servants carrying crosses (priests).
Scholars say Corts began to pose as Quetzalcoatl when he learned about the god. The Spanish possessed powerful weapons, the like of which the Aztecs had never seen, helping the Europeans to appear omnipotent. Many similarities between references to Jesus and Christianity and the Mesoamerican Quetzalcoatl also existed.
The native belief in Quetzalcoatl became a thorn in the side of the Spanish priests as they attempted to spread their own beliefs among these civilizations. The Spanish admit to finding beautiful books but burned them because "The Devil has got here ahead of us and has shown false Christianity," as Diego de Landa, Bishop of the Yucatn wrote. Vernon W. Mattson in his work "The Dead Sea Scrolls and Other Important Discoveries" says, "In one place alone, they burned 100,000 Mayan books."
Quetzalcoatl has been called by some "the most influential person of the Americans." Stone engravings referring to him have been dated back to 300 BC, and legends date back over 2,000 years. Today, all Mesoamerican school children study about him and legends about him inspire scholars and archeologists to keep studying these ancient cultures."-end of quote-
-----------
Proof - no, but the similarities are incredible, and I just got this from the Yahoo search engine. One last thing...I found the reference to the gold was so abundant that it was worthless an interesting fact, considering that the original manuscripts were supposedly written on sheets of gold.
I wonder what Quantum would of thought of this.....nawwwww, never mind, who needs all that crazyness and grief.








Edited by - Double Edge on 19 July 2002 21:4:30
 
Double Edge
Double Edge 14 years ago


Crazy:
Also look into the Animals in the Book of Mormon. Somewhere it mentions animals that the Europeans brought over in the 1500's!
I assume that you mean Cortez and horses, correct?
 
Crazy151drinker
Crazy151drinker 14 years ago


I think somewhere in the Book of Mormon it talks about cows and horses- animals which didnt come over until the europeans arrived.
This weekend I got into it big time with my buddy and his missionary cousin. They preached to me for over 2 hours about the 'Truth'. Yadda Yadda Yadda. Finally I told him that I would listen to his points when they found the plates. HE GOT PISSED and claimed I was insulting his religious beliefs. I told him that A: He just preached to me for 2 hours. B: He slams christians and the cross all the time. How is he going to preach to me and then when I question his beliefs he gets pissed??? EXCUSE ME if I dont believe everything people tell me! HELLO! I think for myself!
His response to the plates was : "There were 21 people who signed sworn affidavids saying that they had seen the plates!" Wow, 21 people. I bet I could walk around town and find at least 21 people who thought they were Jesus! LOL.
And as far as the AZTECS, they practised HUMAN SACRAFICE! If Christ was there GOD, I dont think he would teach that!!!!!!
 
Crazy151drinker
Crazy151drinker 14 years ago

Oh and to top it all off, they were both drinking and smoking POT while they where lecturing me! Something that both would get DF'd for!!!!! PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH!!! YOUR RELIGION IS SO 'TRUE' AND YET HERE BOTH OF YOU ARE VIOLATING IT!!!!!
 
Double Edge
Double Edge 14 years ago


Oh and to top it all off, they were both drinking and smoking POT while they where lecturing me!
They don't seem like the "typical" Mormans to ask questions of ...so why invest 2-hours of your time with someone who apparantly doesn't live their religion.....it doesn't make sense.
And as far as the AZTECS, they practised HUMAN SACRAFICE! If Christ was there GOD, I dont think he would teach that!!!!!!
That's apples and oranges. The point is, I found from a non-biased source on the internet that the Aztecs had a belief that went back 2000 years in a 'god' who's similarities to Christ are striking. By the time the Spaniards had arrived, of course the 'legend' had changed somewhat and obviously they weren't practicing what that god taught.
This is the quote that got me:
The native belief in Quetzalcoatl became a thorn in the side of the Spanish priests as they attempted to spread their own beliefs among these civilizations. The Spanish admit to finding beautiful books but burned them because "The Devil has got here ahead of us and has shown false Christianity," as Diego de Landa, Bishop of the Yucatn wrote. Vernon W. Mattson in his work "The Dead Sea Scrolls and Other Important Discoveries" says, "In one place alone, they burned 100,000 Mayan books
Of course, your statement below got me curious again...I'm going to look on the internet about cows and horses before Columbus.
I think somewhere in the Book of Mormon it talks about cows and horses- animals which didnt come over until the europeans arrived.



 

«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
mormonism is an enigma.
they extol higher education, then turn right around and insult education by their farms archeology site sponsored by byu.
just how this religion ever got by as far as they did is beyond me.



Related Topics
KiddingMe
Police: Teen killed in N.Y. church assault wanted out
by KiddingMe 5 months ago
Defianttruth
Help to build a "Guide to Your New Faith"
by Defianttruth a month ago
OrphanCrow
Deaf Aotearoa flooded with complaints about Jehovah's Witness church
by OrphanCrow 5 months ago
JakeM2012
The extent that desperate cults will go to keep control of their youth
by JakeM2012 5 months ago
oppostate
Jehovah's Witnesses 'ordered destruction' of notes which could have been used during child sexual abuse inquiry
by oppostate a month ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/32031/mormonism-few-points?page=2&size=20






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ What gives us the right to question other's religion?
/  





 

What gives us the right to question other's religion?
by dawg 8 years ago 21 Replies latest 8 years ago   watchtower bible
«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20
dawg
dawg 8 years ago

I recently wrote an article about Mormonism for a local rag that got rejected, it was concerning Mitt Romney,and his belief in the Mormon faith. I wrote it because many people were saying that we have no right to question another's faith in our local newspaper... I said that we in fact do have that right whenever that person is running for President....
My article stated in so many words, that Mormonism has been totally refuted both by the scientific community (DNA, no ties with Istreal and the natives here in the states) and by many of Smith's previous actions in his early life... he used seeing stones once before and was arrested for fraud... I said that Romney was showing by his religious beliefs that he was illogical, and someone like that shouldn't be president... what got the story booted was when I started in on Christianity.
Now, don't get me wrong here, I love some of Christ's teachings, but if someone is a fundlementalist, then they shouldn't be President either in my mind...
so, where do you guys draw the line in your personal lives, when do you feel its appropiate to question someone elses religion?
 
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 8 years ago

You have a right to question,the minute they start the Sales Pitch..............Clint Eastwood...OUTLAW
 
journey-on
journey-on 8 years ago

I think you're right on this one, Dawg. You should be able to question what motivates and guides your leaders.
If religion is the number one motivating factor, then you have a RIGHT as a citizen of this country to know that
and factor that in in making your decision as to whether or not you want him leading you.
 
sooner7nc
sooner7nc 8 years ago

It would be foolish to fail to question a candidates position on religion in the name of PC. If they are willing to lead the country, they should be willing to have their views questioned, and no other person should take offense at this questioning. Of course, I live in a dream world apparently.
 
Mincan
Mincan 8 years ago

Only inasmuch as it challenges the right to our rights. Unfortunately religions like to tell people their rights, which often differs from the common sense rights of every human being.
 
dawg
dawg 8 years ago

well minican, it seems we agree on something... hell yes, I knew it would happen... I'm writing this post down, dating it for my memory... LOL... have a good day bro.
 
VoidEater
VoidEater 8 years ago

I think when someone speaks of their religion, they have invited discussion on the topic. This is especially true for someone in public life, doubly so for those in or seeking public office.
A tenet of our government is a separation between church and state, and while a religious person may serve in government, their responsibilities to the constitution and its principles must not be swayed by their personal religious convictions. They must demonstrate a little-found maturity, the ability to recognize and separate their perosnal lives from their public duties.
Huckabee stating his goal to change the consistution to match God's standards is a case in point.
The only way to ensure equality and freedom for all religious thought is to ensure the government maintains a secular, non-religious base.
Shame on the "local rag" that rejected the story.
Rabbi Brad Hirschfield, author of "You Don't Have to be Wrong For Me to be Right: Finding Faith Without Fanaticism", says some good things on the subject, I think. I hope he's right when he says the religiouis right has finally lost its near strangle-hold on American politics.
 
DT
DT 8 years ago

I believe it is entirely inappropriate for someone to say that a religion shouldn't be criticised. Is there any chance of posting the article here? It sounds interesting.
 
dawg
dawg 8 years ago

I can send it via e-mail if you want to PM me... i
 
Homerovah the Almighty
Homerovah the Almighty 8 years ago

If Romney would ever make it to the Presidency, would he then invite more of his follow Mormons to office ?
Personal I don't think an Republican will be voted in next year , but it's still an interesting thought !
 
moshe
moshe 8 years ago

Well a religion that does no harm to man is usually harmeless to the public at large- some actually help our fellow humans. JW's could get to that point by dropping some harmful parts of their dogma.
 
Scully
Scully 8 years ago

where do you guys draw the line in your personal lives, when do you feel its appropiate to question someone elses religion?
When they start trying to shove their beliefs down my throat - after I've politely told them that I do not wish to hear those beliefs - I start shoving back.
 
Gopher
Gopher 8 years ago

Dawg,
I think Mormonism is as fallacious as any religion can be. That being said, every president in my lifetime has had a religion -- one Catholic, all the others Protestant. These religions usually teach things that are unprovable and sometimes frustratingly illogical. The current president spoke in religious overtones when getting America involved in Iraq, and yet his religion wasn't questioned before he got into office.
I'm no Romney fan, and wouldn't vote for him. However, he was governor of Massachusetts. Did he ruin that state with his religious views? Did he turn it into some sort of Mormon theocracy? I don't think so.
So while Romney definitely needs to assure us that he wouldn't make Mormonism a factor in his policy-making (on the odd chance he were to become our president), I don't think his beliefs should disqualify him from office any more than GW Bush's beliefs did or JF Kennedy's beliefs, etc.
 
Homerovah the Almighty
Homerovah the Almighty 8 years ago

In the next election anyways it's my personal opinion that the general populace will be voting more to the left / Democratic
in a more liberal social direction rather than what has been presented by the Republicans for the past 8 years
It's a stupid fallacy though when people vote on a candidate simply on fact that he or she has a religious background
and therefore he or she will be an honest, forthright and efficient leader, good example of this is G. W.
Personal I rather see a highly regarded intellectual , with a strong educational background in a position of power rather than
the opposite as the case with the present president., unfortunately that rarely happens.
 
Mincan
Mincan 8 years ago

Dawg, lets also agree my nicky isn't minican, its mincan.
 
dawg
dawg 8 years ago

See, that's what zI'm talking about Mincan, you strain the nat and swallow a camel... I've never cared if someone posted something wrongly in any thread I've made....you just can't let even let a compliment be can you? So, did you even get the point I was making while being so obsessed with spelling? I doubt it.
As Pauly Harvey says, good day!
 
Mincan
Mincan 8 years ago

I know the opinion you hold of me, and yet you don't even spell my name correctly, shows how much time you took to "give a crap"
 
dawg
dawg 8 years ago

Mincan, Look at the thread started about neatness-see I'm not neat... and not only that, did you ever stop and think that some of us have disabilities (dyxlexia) and can't spell? If you take a poster's spelling mistakes personal, then how are you going to get through life?
Seriously dude, when and if you do rude things people will call you out for them. Here on this forum, I've been called out several times... its all on how you take it man. I don't get mad anymore on this forum, and you know why? People calling me out on here have made me a better person... live and learn Mincan... take what people here say and do to you with a grain of salt... but do learn from it.
 
Mincan
Mincan 8 years ago

I'm not mad... I really don't care what anyone thinks of me on this board anymore.
Sorry that you have dyslexia, my one uncle does too.
 
Xena
Xena 8 years ago

Only inasmuch as it challenges the right to our rights.
I agree with minican as well.
 

«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
EndofMysteries
DNA seen through the eyes of a programmer.
by EndofMysteries a year ago
Wild_Thing
Why is this scripture blank in some bibles and not in others? It is blank in the JW bible, too.
by Wild_Thing 10 months ago
Wonderment
John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2
by Wonderment 3 months ago
TerryWalstrom
Baiting Dubs for fun and amusement
by TerryWalstrom 8 months ago
Zone
The Local KH is really going to hate me for this (Verses included, LONG.)
by Zone 9 years ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/151466/what-gives-us-right-question-others-religion







Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ What gives us the right to question other's religion?
/  





 

What gives us the right to question other's religion?
by dawg 8 years ago 21 Replies latest 8 years ago   watchtower bible
«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20
dawg
dawg 8 years ago

You spelt his name wrong XENA... oh my god that's funny LOL! Did you do that on purpose?
 
FormerMormon
FormerMormon 8 years ago

Political prostitution is the oldest religion on the earth.
Both politicians and religious shamans seek to manipulate people to do what they want. They "sell" the problem and themselves as the solution. Political parties are simply aggregations of these prostitutes selling themselves and their political wares. ANYTIME groups gather to espouse ANY centralized form of coercion, it is time to question every facet of their organization. This is why I am a minarchist libertarian (go Ron Paul).
That being said, I agree with Gopher, Romney is deluded, but so is Bush, Kennedy or anyone else who subscribes to centralized authorized religion.
 

«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
i recently wrote an article about mormonism for a local rag that got rejected, it was concerning mitt romney,and his belief in the mormon faith.
i wrote it because many people were saying that we have no right to question another's faith in our local newspaper... i said that we in fact do have that right whenever that person is running for president..... my article stated in so many words, that mormonism has been totally refuted both by the scientific community (dna, no ties with istreal and the natives here in the states) and by many of smith's previous actions in his early life... he used seeing stones once before and was arrested for fraud... i said that romney was showing by his religious beliefs that he was illogical, and someone like that shouldn't be president... what got the story booted was when i started in on christianity.. now, don't get me wrong here, i love some of christ's teachings, but if someone is a fundlementalist, then they shouldn't be president either in my mind... .
so, where do you guys draw the line in your personal lives, when do you feel its appropiate to question someone elses religion?.



Related Topics
EndofMysteries
DNA seen through the eyes of a programmer.
by EndofMysteries a year ago
Wild_Thing
Why is this scripture blank in some bibles and not in others? It is blank in the JW bible, too.
by Wild_Thing 10 months ago
Wonderment
John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2
by Wonderment 3 months ago
TerryWalstrom
Baiting Dubs for fun and amusement
by TerryWalstrom 8 months ago
Zone
The Local KH is really going to hate me for this (Verses included, LONG.)
by Zone 9 years ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/151466/what-gives-us-right-question-others-religion?page=2&size=20






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ 15 Year Old Mormon Girl Tortured For Being Gay
/  





 

15 Year Old Mormon Girl Tortured For Being Gay
by cofty 2 days ago 7 Replies latest 2 days ago   social current
5
10
20
cofty
cofty 2 days ago

Alex Cooper, a former Mormon, offers a terrifying account of being held hostage for eight months in an unlicensed “residential treatment program” modeled on the many “therapeutic” boot camps scattered across Utah.
At the Mormon run “treatment center” Alex was physically and verbally abused. Many days she was forced to stand facing a wall wearing a heavy backpack full of rocks. She developed sores on her shoulders and cramps in her back. She eventually attempted suicide and repeatedly tried to escape, but when she was caught, the Mormons running the center beat her.... more
"Mormonism, because JWs need somebody to laugh at."

 +5 / -0
Village Idiot
Village Idiot 2 days ago
I'm sure a JW or two has made use of conversion therapy for their gay children.
 +0 / -1
Skedaddle
Skedaddle 2 days ago
Eeek! This is awful! Poor Girl.
 +1 / -0
fulltimestudent
fulltimestudent 2 days ago

If Jesus can murder you for not accepting him as 'Lord', and then 'feed you to the vultures' (Revelation19: 11-21) what's wrong with a bit of torture to 'knock some sense into your head'?
At its heart, Christianity is a violent religion.
The above incident is not uncommon.
October 16, 2015 - http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34553332

 +4 / -0
Island Man
Island Man 2 days ago

The OT recommended pelting gays to death with stones. This gay girl was only made to wear a backpack full of stones. That's a step up from the OT prescription, wouldn't you say?
The idiocy and atrocities of religion knows no bounds because once you can get people to accept extreme, outlandish ideas you can also get them to behave in extreme, outlandish ways.

 +2 / -0
zeb
zeb 2 days ago
Some of the nicest women I have known have been gay as some of the nastiest have not.
 
breakfast of champions
breakfast of champions 2 days ago
For some reason the link you provided is broken. . . . I'll try to google it.
 
James Mixon
James Mixon 2 days ago
It's mind boggling that people "Today" believe they can beat the gayness out of you..
 +1 / -0

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
Cold-Dodger
Hello from an exmormon
by Cold-Dodger 5 months ago
new boy
My Bethel Experience Part 13 "Love and Sex" at Bethel
by new boy 2 months ago
new boy
My Bethwl Experience Part 11
by new boy 2 months ago
Dogpatch
"How Awful This Place Can Be!" Life at Bethel by Keith Casarona
by Dogpatch 5 years ago
new boy
My Bethel Experience Part 18. The last Bethel Tread, Blood Guilt
by new boy 2 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5677399630938112/15-year-old-mormon-girl-tortured-being-gay