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Fade Fail: Not as Easy as I'd Like
by Hadriel a day ago 22 Replies latest 2 hours ago   jw experiences
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Hadriel
Hadriel a day ago

This has been tough. At least for me. Very tough actually. Because I'm so integrated into things including certain tasks which I can't say as it would be a dead giveaway I find myself constantly bombarded by things.
I'm literally a lying every day. Even though they might shun me I know these people and if you could get some of them to just examine the evidence they'd wake too. They're blinded just like I was is all. Not bad folks.
So I really hate lying to them when they ask questions or make points about things that I know have been spun, mislead or flat out lied about.
I can't tell you how incredibly tough it is sometimes.
I just want to be done with it all and can't due to the weaponization of family and friends. This religion truly is evil in this respect.
It makes me want to be very evil back at times.
 +14 / -0
GrreatTeacher
GrreatTeacher a day ago

"the weaponization of family and friends"
That phrase is so appropriate. And so true. It's what they do.
I'm sorry, I know it's tough.
 +7 / -0
Hadriel
Hadriel a day ago
Really really got to me today. The fact that I can't be honest with a single soul I know, I never expected it to be the torment it is.
 +5 / -0
dubstepped
dubstepped a day ago

Sorry man, it's tough. I couldn't keep my mouth shut forever and tipped my hand several times as to my feelings on things. It became a fire in my bones, or whatever Jeremiah said, and it burned me up. I couldn't hold it in anymore. That's just how I'm wired though, but for a long time it was so tough to keep things pent up inside. It honestly wasn't healthy for me. Still, I was able to bide time until I was ready to leave for sure along with my wife.
You're right in that they aren't bad at their core. However, many people that do really horrible things to other human beings may not be bad at their core. They still hurt others though, and at a point it isn't a matter of good or bad but rather healthy or toxic. I was so happy to leave the toxic environments and the toxic people behind when I DA'd. It was so freeing. We all take our own time for moving on however we choose, whether fading or DA'ing or whatever. In the end though, really good people can be really toxic for us. It hurts a lot, and I can see you hurting. I'm sorry. It is so hard to be inauthentic, and I couldn't keep it up for long. I've never been good at acting.
 +4 / -0
Sabin
Sabin a day ago

"It make's want to be evil back at times."
You couldn't have worded it better, they push & push & push until in the end you are left with no choice but to be rude in order to protect yourself. Then they turn it around on you. Hang on in there I bet your doing a lot better than you think. 
The Bastards.
 +3 / -0
Lostwun
Lostwun a day ago
Sabin you accurately describe exactly everything they do. they constantly push push push then find some way to turn it back around on you and make it your fault when you blow a gasket from all their harrasment. bastards indeed!!
 +2 / -0
RichardHaley
RichardHaley a day ago
I don't know your circumstances and can only give my personal experience at fading, maybe some of it can help you... or not. I was an elder when I made the decision. I resigned immediately and put it in writing to the boe and the co. I used a legitimate reason, turned in my book and necessary papers at the very beginning of the e meeting and excused myself and left while they were still in shock. After that I didn't hang around with any servants before or after the mtngs. I then stopped commenting at meetings and reduced field service activity. After about 6 months I told the school servant I needed a vacation from the school for a while. Started being irregular in fs and eventually stopped reporting all together. I now occasionally go to a Sunday mtng and that is it. I haven't had much pressure from anyone. All my family is still in and just thinks I am weak. My wife knows the whole scoop and is also waking up. I don't engage in any conversation about jw stuff with anyone, and I am pretty good at changing the subject when necessary. I even work with jws and it has been np. It is amazing how fast they can forget about you. When I feel the urge to say something I don't. Right now my moto is "If you don't promote it you don't have to defend it." Hope things smooth out for you.
 +9 / -0
Lieu
Lieu a day ago
This is why they promote giving up all your non JW friendships; so you have no one if you decide to leave or simply want to openly express doubts to someone.
 +5 / -0
zeb
zeb a day ago
One little thing you can do that no one seems to think of. When you go into the kh sit in a totally different seat than you normally would do. then do it again etc.
 +1 / -0
crazy_flickering_light
crazy_flickering_light a day ago

I feel with you. I'm looking for a way to fade, but at the moment: no chance. I can't step down, this will make to much noise. I have make them to kick me for a stupid reason (not enough hours or so). But until today, nothing works. It's so bad.
You lie, you cheat only to survive all these trash. It's tough.I'm very happy at the moment, I could wake up a friend, or I think so. But only one in a crowd.
 +2 / -0
Anders Andersen
Anders Andersen a day ago

I couldn't fake it for more than 2 weeks even. It's very hard indeed. Not that I wanted to even.
Make sure you take care of yourself first Hadriel. While the probably best way to wake up others is when still posing as a true believer (no anti-apostate guard up) your first responsibility is your own (mental) health, and your family.
Others who can be woken up, will wake up eventually even without our help. So keep it up as long as you can, but please don't destroy yourself in the process.



Take care!
 +3 / -0
Hadriel
Hadriel 21 hours ago

Thanks everyone appreciate the comments. I wish there was this book you buy and you follow these 10 steps and you're out no harm no foul. But of course no they hose you on the way out too!
Not sure why I can't just keep it in and ignore it all but it drives me crazy to lie at every turn it seems.
 +3 / -0
talesin
talesin 21 hours ago

Not sure why I can't just keep it in and ignore it all but it drives me crazy to lie at every turn it seems.
It would make me crazy, and that's why i gave it up at age 18. All I have to do is hear that phrase "would you consider" or "have you changed your mind" and I freeze. It's a very hard row to hoe. Stay strong! xx
 +2 / -0
Hadriel
Hadriel 8 hours ago
Yep it's making me crazy for sure. Kinda surprised to be honest but it's bugging me.
 +1 / -0
Sabin
Sabin 7 hours ago
Hadriel have read the book by Bonnie Zieman, Exiting the JW Cult?. well worth taking a look at. Helped me tremendously & many others on the forum.
 +1 / -0
Hadriel
Hadriel 7 hours ago
No I haven't actually.
 
EyesOpenHeartBroken
EyesOpenHeartBroken 7 hours ago

Hi Hadriel-
I get it. I have been working on my unsuccessful fade for almost 2 years now..ugh! I am a very upfront and genuine person, so this piece of my life currently feels very inauthentic. Mentally I know fading is just a game, but it feels like I am losing pieces of the core of who I am by putting on this charade. So though I haven't any advice for you, I commiserate.
It sucks!
 +3 / -0
Hadriel
Hadriel 7 hours ago
Boy @Eyes I couldn't have said that better. Exactly how I feel.
 +1 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 7 hours ago

Hey there Hadriel!
I totally get what you mean! Eventually something busts though if you tread the line while pretending...... Your emotional and mental health is vital, so battling the cognitive dissonance is difficult!
Dont allow yourself to get to a point where you snap a comment that can't be undone.
Keep your dignity, keep your poise, and remember no one has the right to affect how you feel except yourself!
On a lighter note, you mentioned this above: " I wish there was this book you buy and you follow these 10 steps and you're out no harm no foul. "
Ok here you go:

https://m.


 +2 / -0
rebel8
rebel8 7 hours ago

Well there is a 10-step book actually, but no truthful book says there's something simple or painless.
You could get jumped out of the gang, slowly fade out of their view and still take some lashes, or flee and cut off contact so they can't punish you to your face.

I wonder if there are some retorts you could memorize for the moments when they spit back the twisted old claptrap. Something that sounds like old school loyalty but takes it one step too far--for example--like how jehulahoop's organization has always had Thee Truth, even when the Golden Age wrote that germs didn't exist and the cure for the common cold was to jump up and down naked.
For your enjoyment: Golden Age Goodies

 

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Fade Fail: Not as Easy as I'd Like
by Hadriel a day ago 22 Replies latest 2 hours ago   jw experiences
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Hadriel
Hadriel 7 hours ago

LOL what "jump up and down naked" wait where is that I have to know.
 
rebel8
rebel8 6 hours ago
Check out that other thread I linked to. It gives many interesting quotes. wts was completely wackadoodle back then. Sure, they don't believe that stuff now, but they claim they have always been jehoho's super special people. If that's true, why did they believe that nonsense? Was jehoho smoking crack back then or something?

 +1 / -0
LongHairGal
LongHairGal 2 hours ago

LIEU:
You are spot on about why they want a new JW to give up their non-JW friends and relatives! They want to isolate and separate in order to control you.
If you are isolated you are trapped and it is very difficult to leave.
I PLANNED my "fade" in advance and knew what I had to do in preparation: I rekindled old contacts. Since I had very few JW friends it was no problem and no real loss for me, anyway. Others might have it harder depending on how popular, involved they are. It would certainly be harder but not impossible for somebody with a "position" there.
Fading is hard but it can be more successful if a JW carefully plans in advance. Nobody said fading was perfect but it works for many ex-JWs!
 

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Topic Summary
this has been tough.
very tough actually.
because i'm so integrated into things including certain tasks which i can't say as it would be a dead giveaway i find myself constantly bombarded by things.. i'm literally a lying every day.



Related Topics
AndersonsInfo
Article: "Why God Won't Go Away" (Contains an example of a JW) An excellent read!
by AndersonsInfo a month ago
What Now?
Our Letter to Our Family
by What Now? 2 months ago
David_Jay
Your Jehovah’s Witness Is Showing
by David_Jay 2 months ago
new boy
How Did My Book Come About?
by new boy a month ago
cappytan
Governing Body Letter details things that "have never been done before." - Really?
by cappytan 2 months ago



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Brooklyn Eagle November 12, 1911: Shows that this cult has been breaking up families at least for 105 years
by ILoveTTATT2 2 days ago 6 Replies latest 9 hours ago   jw friends
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ILoveTTATT2
ILoveTTATT2 2 days ago


I am doing investigation on the early history of the Bible Students / Jehovah's Witnesses. One resource that is turning out to be extremely useful is the Brooklyn Eagle.





The Brooklyn Eagle was a newspaper that had a lot of animosity against the Watchtower Society. Who knows? Maybe there was an ex-Bible Student there...





This appeared in the Brooklyn Eagle of November 12, 1911. It is so sad that even 105 years ago people could see that this cult destroys families (see after the "one more" paragraph)









EACH RELIGIOUS EDITOR ANSWERS RUSSELL ATTACK





Franklin P. Sellers Tells How He Presumably Incurred the Dislike of the "Pastor."




DIDN'T PRINT SERMONS FREE.





Tells of Call From Man Whose Tale of Sorrow Was Inspired by Russellism.





Editor The Brooklyn Daily Eagle:





At the risk of being still further slandered, I must set down two or three things which I know about the "Pastor" Russell outfit. I have been quiet long enough. The first thing I know is that this borough has been literally strewn with a certain copy of the Brooklyn Tabernacle People's Pulpit, in an article in which several slurring references are made to the religious editor of The Eagle by leaving off the last letter of his name and boldly charging that this paper has been sold by him. The writer of the article is well known, but I have no desire to answer such a ridiculous charge in face of the standing which I am proud of having among the clergy of Brooklyn and, in fact, of the United States, who are not purchasing newspaper mention any more than I am receiving pay, except in the way of recognition by my honorable employers. I do possess a watch, highly prized, which was given to me as a testimonial by five ministers of the gospel, whose names are held in high esteem throughout this country and the world.





On the other hand, the religious editor of The Eagle has been approached not once, but many times, by agents of "Pastor" Russell, and his time taken up, hours together, in an endeavor to prove to him that the publication of "Pastor" Russell's sermons would add to the circulation of The Eagle at least 10,000 copies a week. I was told that I could have two columns a week at 25 cents a column. I had the temerity to say that that was too cheap, and this I suppose, increased his animus. It is not generally known, as acknowledged by Russell's agent, but it is true, that the only way In which the papers of New York City will print Pastor Russell's sermons, and this has been true for a year or more, is by his syndicate manager paying regular display advertisement rates, even if said sermons are dated Brooklyn, "On the Sea," London or elsewhere. The Eagle has charged for them, too, and probably made a sore spot in the Tabernacle outfit by so doing.





Another thing I know. For very good reasons I never attended held by "Pastor" Russell in the Brooklyn Academy of Music, never wrote a [???] about any of his meetings, nor about "Miracle Wheat," and therefore have never written any "snicker" about "Pastor" Russell or any of his followers. I have boldly said to his agents that I did not believe in his doctrines and that I knew his "Millennial Dawn" book had caused many a domestic entanglement. I am a private citizen and have a right to criticise [sic] any public teacher, but I have no right to defame anybody in print, and have never done so, and would be ashamed to pen the "Billingsgate" which "Pastor" Russell's editor has written under the heading "An Eagle Transformed." I am quite sure, also that "'Pastor' Russell Interviewed" was never written by the "pastor" for he was on the sea, I ant given to understand, when it was dictated.





Once more. Nearly two years ago a man of education came to see me one Sunday morning. He was from Chicago. His face bore marks of great trouble. He desired me to give him the names of some ministers who had previously held pastorates in Pittsburg, which city was the headquarters of the "Pastor" Russell outfit before finding it probably more comfortable to come to Brooklyn.





My visitor, a true gentleman, had no harsh words for any one, but he was greatly distressed and was looking for a way out of it. He said that his married life had been supremely happy up to a year or two previously. There were two sons and two daughters. He had money in his own right; his wife had money in hers, they being about equally rich. It had been the custom, he said, for him to maintain in the household, as he was in a provision business, and, it was agreed that neither was to use the other's surplus, about $45,000 each, but that his should go to the boys and hers to the girls. But the wife through constant visits from one of the Russell agents, became enamored of the doctrines and told him her money would be given to "Pastor" Russell. This distressed him, and he tried to dissaude [sic] her on account of the agreement between them. Several conferences over the matter were held, but to no avail, and finally the wife said that if the husband did not stop talking about it she would give her money to Russell before she died.





The man was anxious to know what could be done. The sequel I never learned. I made bold to ask a Russell agent If the "pastor" would take money under such circumstances, and received the evasive answer that it would depend upon how the money was given. This was another way, probably, in which I got myself disliked and for which I am made subject to slanderous attacks. But the whole outfit is welcome. My standing is secure because I try to behave myself, and am succeeding very well and have never been in the courts.
 +6 / -0
ILoveTTATT2
ILoveTTATT2 2 days ago
By the way, $45,000 in 1911 comes out to $1,110,608.23 in 2016 dollars. So the Russellites managed to swindle at least $1M from this woman. This shows a man worried that his wife was going into a cult!!
 +3 / -0
jaydee
jaydee 17 hours ago
fascinating.......Image result for newspaper emoji....thanks
 +1 / -0
Tenacious
Tenacious 12 hours ago
The Brooklyn Eagle has many excellent articles on the early days of this maggot movement.

 +2 / -0
Tenacious
Tenacious 12 hours ago
The Brooklyn Eagle has many excellent articles on the early days of this maggot movement.
 
Dagney
Dagney 12 hours ago
Interesting.
 +1 / -0
LongHairGal
LongHairGal 9 hours ago

It is like a sneaky serpent shape-shifter that entices people in with sweet phony promises and then they feel stuck!
Too bad there was no internet or any way I could have known this about the JW religion...I could have saved myself time and aggravation!
Live and learn!
 +2 / -0

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by ILoveTTATT2 18 days ago



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am i overreacting?
by freeandcontent 2 days ago 37 Replies latest 14 hours ago   jw experiences
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freeandcontent
freeandcontent 2 days ago
Hi, New here but have been lurking for a while. Some background first, I am from the UK, 3rd gen born in, dad, grandad elders etc. 17 years ago I left, no df or da just left, 18 years old and alone but I did it and have had no regrets. Fast forward to last year and I saw a story online about two people from my old congregation, one an elder, that had been convicted of child sex offences. The story had links to this site, silentlambs and many others. This started a journey for me as I had never really dealt with my jw upbringing. It had always been at the back of my mind but only my mother had kept in contact with me during my time out. Anyway today my mum came to visit as I have a 3 year old daughter, I had been making littlest one dinner and when I came back through they were watching Caleb and Sophia videos. My reaction was not good as I do not want my daughter exposed anything jw. As an adult I can handle the things my mum drops into conversations and change the subject. My question really is am I overreacting? Should I let my lo hear her grandmas point of view and as she gets older I can provide others views. My gut feeling is no and this will probably mean no more contact as they are a sneaky bunch and she will probably try to tell my lo stuff when I'm not there. Any thoughts appreciated.
 +13 / -0
stan livedeath
stan livedeath 2 days ago

hello F & C--i'm UK too. heres a link to lots more
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/197364/ex-jw-uk?page=1&size=20
 
flipper
flipper 2 days ago

Welcome!
I don't think you are overreacting. Indoctrinated jws have some twisted ideas about what is good for children.
Perhaps this is an opportunity for your child to learn tolerance - in that there are people we care for that have nutty ideas. It's probably never a good idea to leave a small child alone with jw's for too long.
Wish you the best. Mrs. Flipper
 +6 / -0
freddo
freddo 2 days ago

Tough call. Welcome to the forum.
Firstly as you describe yourself as "freeandcontent" is there any reason why you cannot tell your mum what you found wrong with the jw's? (As if two convicted paedo's in your old hall isn't enough!)
Secondly once you have expressed yourself politely, kindly but firmly you can tell her that is why you don't want your 3 year old's head filled with ""die at Armageddon if she doesn't "love" Jehovah enough to get into paradise.""
Your mother will deny that is what she will tell her but that is the fact of it isn't it?
 +3 / -0
steve2
steve2 2 days ago

freeandcontent, you've hit the nail on the head! 
If your mother desires an honest, upfront relationship with you, it is reasonable for you to expect her to be honest with you.
Would she like it if the scenario were reversed - that is, if you visited her and she was looking after minor children of JWs such as grandchildren and behind her back, you started sharing your nonJW beliefs with those children?
No she wouldn't. She would find a way to communicate her strong disapproval. In fact, it could even be grounds for her severing contact with you unless you repented.
So, you are not overreacting.
Of course, the question is, how do you address this sort of thing with your mother?
Why not think about the following, either in whole or part:
1) thank her for her concern/interest
2) express how much you appreciate she has kept in contact with you
3) state you want her to first ask you before sharing her beliefs with your child
4) and ask her to respect your views just like you are respecting hers.
Express this to your mother in an optimstic, non-argumentative way.
If your mother takes you to task and/or guilts you (as JW parents are inclined to do), become a gentle "stuck record":
"I don't want to argue with you Mum, I am simply asking that you respect my wishes for my daughter".
If your relationship with your mother is not based on mutual love and respect, I don't see your mother choosing to listen to you.
However, if your relationship with her is based on mutual love and respect, your mother will listen.
 +13 / -0
freemindfade
freemindfade 2 days ago
Welcome
 
Wasanelder Once
Wasanelder Once 2 days ago
After 17 years they must be convinced you are not returning. The fact that YOU have not begun to teach your baby the JW garbage should be evidence enough of that. I can't see it being problematic to stress to her that YOU will teach her about Jehovah and not her grandmother or anyone else. Tell her honestly you don't approve of those hokey videos and not to show them to her. Keep it honest. Welcome by the way!

 +2 / -0
konceptual99
konceptual99 2 days ago

Welcome. Another UK member!
+1 to all the points above btw.
 +1 / -0
Je.suis.oisif
Je.suis.oisif 2 days ago
Welcome. You would be justified in voicing how you want your child to be brought up. These Caleb & Sophia cultoons are sinister.
 +5 / -0
freeandcontent
freeandcontent 2 days ago
Thanks for your replies everyone. Over the years my mum has always left literature or dropped things into conversations but I have always been polite and just changed subjects. I guess the time has come to actually tell her what I think, in a calm way, then see where that goes. I have always kept the talk away from Jehovah's stuff as I guess I just wanted some small contact with my family. It's a shame as they are missing out on a seeing imo a lovely little girl growing up. It's a common story on here isn't it. Will let you all know how it goes. Thanks and I wish you all well.
 +9 / -0
ToesUp
ToesUp 2 days ago

Welcome.
When it is YOUR child, you are in control. Do not give them the control.
If they are a sneaky bunch, then you need to be aware of what they are doing. Tell your mother how you feel. I know it's painful if she stops contact. Like someone on here mentioned the other day, who does that? That is conditional love. Not the kind of love a genuine family/friend gives.
 +3 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 2 days ago

Hi, and welcome to this forum.
I would respectfully ask my parents to show you first the video to see if you approve of your child viewing it. A lot of the videos are very good lessons about how to get along with others and behavioral stuff.
Also be prepared to counter the indoctrination with reasoning a child can understand, like how fun certain celebrations are, etc.
If parents do not heed your words, there is always strictly supervised or minimum visitations.
DY
 
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 2 days ago

My question really is am I overreacting?
Hell no, your mother did not respect your own inherent beliefs and disregarded them and tried to allure attention to her cult by using cartoons onto your own child.

If my mother did that to my daughter I would tear a strip off of her big time.
....... but my mother wouldn't do that she knows my personal position on the JW faith and respects that at is.

 +2 / -0
mamacita29
mamacita29 2 days ago

Sometimes I want to just ring the neck of some of my stupid JW family but I know from experience that will only harden their conviction that they have "the truth."
You need to drop truth bombs on them. In general conversation ask them if they saw Geoffy Jackson and what they think about the overlapping generation theory. I bet you they can't exSPLANE it. lololololol

 
Giordano
Giordano 2 days ago

No overreaction. I take it she brought the video's and waited for you to be out of the room and played them? If so........ she wants to start corrupting your child.
My wife and I left the JW's before out child was born we left over the blood issue and the sense that there was a deep corruption in the dogma and the organization itself.
We did not allow any witnessing to our son. We would not allow him to stay over at my Mom's while on business trips mainly because we had no way of knowing how she would respond blood wise if he was in an accident and rushed to the hospital. She believed all the reckless teachings of the JW's and I doubted if she would have put my son's health first should it come to that.
When my son was older..... 10 or so.... my Uber sister sent him a box filled with the new publications. He opened it and I asked him if he was interested in reading some of them. He said no then went into his room and played an 8 track of his favorite band......... Kiss. That concerned me.
It took two more years but I finally got him to listen to the Rolling Stones and he especially loved Sympathy for the Devil......
 +6 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 2 days ago

I would respectfully ask my parents to show you first the video to see if you approve of your child viewing it. A lot of the videos are very good lessons about how to get along with others and behavioral stuff. ~ Doubtfully Yours
I assume you're trying to walk on eggshells and keep communication open with your Mum. I would be careful to over-react and say anything toooooo negative against JWs. But, I think the recommendation quoted above is reasonable and you can give reasons to Mum that are not too offensive, for example, I really do not think children should be exposed to violent pictures of people being killed such as are in the Bible Story Book. And, I do not want her to think that all people except JWs are "bad" and going to be killed by God, because YOU do not believe that. (Pin your mother down as to if she REALLY believes that. Most JWs will avoid the issue by saying "Only Jehovah is judge of that". Then you can counter that you agree and really don't think Jah will destroy "good people" such as . . . . [non-JW family members who are clearly "good people"].
Your daughter will be exposed to lots of ideas as she goes to school, plays with friends, etc. You'll need to explain to her that many people believe many different things when it comes to religion. Even Grandma's crazy religion.
Doc
The greatest revenge is living a happy & successful life!
 +1 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 2 days ago

I would respectfully ask my parents to show you first the video to see if you approve of your child viewing it. A lot of the videos are very good lessons about how to get along with others and behavioral stuff. ~ Doubtfully Yours
I assume you're trying to walk on eggshells and keep communication open with your Mum. I would be careful to over-react and say anything toooooo negative against JWs. But, I think the recommendation quoted above is reasonable and you can give reasons to Mum that are not too offensive, for example, I really do not think children should be exposed to violent pictures of people being killed such as are in the Bible Story Book. And, I do not want her to think that all people except JWs are "bad" and going to be killed by God, because YOU do not believe that. (Pin your mother down as to if she REALLY believes that. Most JWs will avoid the issue by saying "Only Jehovah is judge of that". Then you can counter that you agree and really don't think Jah will destroy "good people" such as . . . . [non-JW family members who are clearly "good people"].
Your daughter will be exposed to lots of ideas as she goes to school, plays with friends, etc. You'll need to explain to her that many people believe many different things when it comes to religion. Even Grandma's crazy religion.
Doc
The greatest revenge is living a happy & successful life!
 
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 2 days ago

Welcome.
i echo the comments steve2 said above.
 +2 / -0
Beth Sarim
Beth Sarim 2 days ago
yeah, what steve said!!
 +2 / -0
JWdaughter
JWdaughter 2 days ago

Welcome.
Ensure that you have guardians lined up and a will in place in case you pass before your parents/siblings or beautiful baby daughter will be raised JW.
Nothing wrong with setting boundaries, gently now but less so if they are abusing your gentle kindness. If you lose her over this, then you'd lose her in any case. Best wishes.
 +2 / -0

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by A.proclaimer 2 months ago
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am i overreacting?
by freeandcontent 2 days ago 37 Replies latest 14 hours ago   jw experiences
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Leela1
Leela1 2 days ago

Hi and welcome I am new here on the site as well. I think you need to be very careful you are not overreacting. I have 4 kids and have been DA since I was 15 I am now 35. I have pretty much no contact with my family for about the last 10 years the only time they reach out to me is if it is some family emergency they want me to be aware of. I did at one time have pretty regular contact with one of my sister’s right after I had my oldest daughter. I contacted her often for support as she was the only family member who would talk to me. I had asked my sister not to talk to my kids regarding JW beliefs and for the most part she did respect my wishes. However, my sister had a son 2 years older than my daughter and when he was 7 he told my 5 year old daughter that she was bad for celebrating her bday and that she and myself and my other children were going to die at Armageddon. He showed her pictures of Armageddon and scared the crap out of her. I was downstairs doing laundry with my sister when this happened and when I came up saw him and heard him telling my 5 year old how horrible she was. This was the last time any of my kids saw my sister or her family. My sister defended her son (and to be fair he was just a child and brainwashed) and defended the JWS. Sadly I think that when you are dealing with members of the JW even your family members you can assume that they will try to indoctrinate your daughter as witnessing is central to the faith.
 +4 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 2 days ago


My question really is am I overreacting? Should I let my lo hear her grandmas point of view and as she gets older I can provide others views. My gut feeling is no and this will probably mean no more contact as they are a sneaky bunch and she will probably try to tell my lo stuff when I'm not there. Any thoughts appreciated.
No.....Your not over reacting..
JW Grandma will try to "RECRUIT" Grandbaby by Any Means Possible..
JWs know No Boundaries..
.

.................You`ll Make a Good Little JW..
..........Your Mommy and Daddy Love Satan..
........................WE LOVE JEHOVAH!..

..........Image result for Grandma stealing child
 +7 / -0
Sabin
Sabin a day ago

Hello F&C, it's good to have you join us. You don't need any-one to advise you what to do, your own instincts already let you know didn't they. Go with your gut.
 +2 / -0
GrreatTeacher
GrreatTeacher a day ago

No, you're not overreacting. My parents tried to indoctrinate my son and when he was about 8 years old he came home from an overnight visit, visibly distressed and crying.
He was already seeing a doctor for anxiety (generalized anxiety disorder) and when she heard about this, she forcefully told us not to allow it anymore at all. It was obviously very bad for him.
I had to have a talk with her and didn't allow him to stay overnight again for a long, long time.
I found out she was sneaking behind my back, bought him a suit and took him to the meetings with her! That got stomped on, too, with a request she look into the pedophilia scandal.
The point is, the JWs, even our parents, have no respect for parental authority. They will sneak and lie and think they are doing good.
Please put your foot down now.
 +4 / -0
Heartsafire
Heartsafire a day ago

Welcome! No, you are not overreacting to those yucky Caleb and Sophia videos! It is complete propaganda, and they teach children "lessons" that make them feel responsible for God's actions. An elder in my hall straight up said he dislikes Caleb and Sophia, so it's not just ex-JWs who feel repulsed by that crap.
If you ever want to be totally freaked out by the propaganda of JW's then I suggest googling "North Korean Propaganda Art" and browsing the images. Tons of those pictures look so similar to the illustrations in the WT books...particularly the multiple fruit pics and children romping happily in fields.
 +1 / -0
freeandcontent
freeandcontent a day ago
Thanks everyone. We had a chat last night and she said she will not show her them again. I directly said I don't want you mentioning anything jw and she said she will not. Hoping she sticks to it.
 +3 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW a day ago


We had a chat last night and she said she will not show her them again. I directly said I don't want you mentioning anything jw and she said she will not. Hoping she sticks to it.
Uhhh Ya.......Good Luck with that..
Think..
"Theocratic Warfare Strategy"
.
...........................I Lied For Jehovah..

....................SUCKAAAA!!.............LOL!!..
..........Image result for smiling Old woman
 +3 / -0
Sabin
Sabin a day ago

Outlaw, funny, a wee bit insensitive.
F&C if you had the chat see how it goes from there. However, keep in mind what OutLaw has said.
 +1 / -0
freeandcontent
freeandcontent a day ago
Outlaw - your post is spot on. I know that she may still try to sneak things in which is why she will never have her granddaughter on her own or for overnight stays etc. Contact will always be in my presence. Have to give her the chance though to just be grandma with no jw stuff brought up. I am not soft so if it comes to the crunch and she does try bringing anything jw into it then she will no longer be welcome.
 +1 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW a day ago


Outlaw, funny, a wee bit insensitive.....Sabin
LOL!!......Insensitive?.....No..
That`s my personal experience..
JW Grandparents will agree to anything,to have the freedom to indoctrinate your children..
Next time they`ll be more sneaky about it..

The game never ends,you can never trust them...EVER!!..
If its in their best interests,Jehovah`s Witnesses (JW Grandparents Included) "WILL LIE"

 +1 / -0
punkofnice
punkofnice a day ago

My question really is am I overreacting?
No. Your daughter needs your protection. Especially from a weirdo cult like I was raised in.
The balance is being respectful to your poor ol' Mum who thinks she's doing right because she is under mind control from the corporation.
Keep us posted, fellow UK person....oh, and...welcome to el forumo
 
OUTLAW
OUTLAW a day ago


Outlaw - your post is spot on. I know that she may still try to sneak things in which is why she will never have her granddaughter on her own or for overnight stays etc. Contact will always be in my presence. Have to give her the chance though to just be grandma with no jw stuff brought up......freeandcontent
I absolutely understand trying to be a good and decent person,trying to give JW Grandparents a Fair Chance..
The unfortunate truth is.....They`ll use it against you..
They will betray you at every opportunity.....It`s Normal Behavior for Jehovah`s Witnesses..
All I can do is offer my advice,based on my personal experience..
Many parents have had the same experience..
 +2 / -0
KateWild
KateWild a day ago

Welcome freeandcontent.....very difficult to find a balance.
Thanks for your experience Leela1 it's very apt for this thread. I am sorry this happened to your family
Kate xx
 +1 / -0
Calebs Airplane
Calebs Airplane a day ago
Let your children watch the Caleb & Sophia videos. Then point out all the ridiculous aspects of these and let them form their own opinions. You'd be surprised how smart children can be, especially when you help them develop their critical thinking skills.
 +1 / -1
Hadriel
Hadriel 21 hours ago

@freeandcontent first off welcome.
secondly at least for me I wouldn't permit this. The indoctrination is significant getting our children to see the reality has actually been difficult. Add to that we've never been overbearing self-righteous types and rather liberal compared to most yet here were are.
The point is the indoctrination is dangerous. We're kind of scrambling to undo what we've done. It stinks.
 +1 / -0
KateWild
KateWild 20 hours ago

Calebs Airplane,
You make a good point, that's what I used to do with my kids when waking up. It worked a treat. Perhaps then the young children will wake up Grandma and Grandpa with their logic.
Out of the mouths of babes
Kate xx
 +2 / -0
Heaven
Heaven 15 hours ago

Welcome FAC! You are not overreacting. As "littlest one's" (I love this btw) parent you are the one responsible for the well-being and upbringing of your child. Indoctrinating a child into a cult is harmful. You are perfectly within your right to stop this.

At some point in our lives, and it seems it's usually our adult lives, we have to establish boundaries with our JW families. It seems you have reached this juncture.

 
Iown Mylife
Iown Mylife 14 hours ago

My daughter and granddaughter have had extremely difficult times trying to get over the dread and fear of imminent Armageddon destruction.
Knowing what I know now, i would not take a chance on leaving any child alone with any JW. Especially a grandparent who probably thinks she is the only way her grandchild will learn about Jehovah and be saved through Armageddon.
Keep kids safe from the JW cult!!!
Marina
 

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Topic Summary
hi, new here but have been lurking for a while.
some background first, i am from the uk, 3rd gen born in, dad, grandad elders etc.
17 years ago i left, no df or da just left, 18 years old and alone but i did it and have had no regrets.



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by blondie 2 months ago
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by snare&racket 8 days ago



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smiddy
8
Jehovah / Yahweh must be blessing the Seventh Day Adventist movement and not the Jehovah`s Witnesses.
by smiddy in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
if you look at the facts and history of both of these religions , you do see a similarity , not only in belief , but also the timing of their origins.

end times ., paradise earth ( similar to the christadephians , baptists ,and other end times religions ) etc.. the jehovah`s witnesses s put a lot of weight on everybody doing door to door work in the ministry .and counting the time spent doing so.. the seventh day adventists do a fraction of the time doing door to door ministry by everybody in their religion , if they even require every body to go d2d and count their time.

i do not know.. what i do know is that the s.d.a.`s have more than twice the number of active believers than the j.w.`s do , over a similar time of history .. so does that not indicate conclusively that the god of the bible is blessing the s.d.a.`s over the j.w.`s ?

jaydee
WingCommander
Anders Andersen
15 hours ago
Hadriel
22
Fade Fail: Not as Easy as I'd Like
by Hadriel in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 a day ago
this has been tough.

very tough actually.

because i'm so integrated into things including certain tasks which i can't say as it would be a dead giveaway i find myself constantly bombarded by things.. i'm literally a lying every day.

Hadriel
rebel8
LongHairGal
2 hours ago
BlackWolf
19
I dont know how i can leave my family!
by BlackWolf in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
my mom and i were talking today about how next summer i will be 18 and she said that just thinking about it might make her cry.

that made me think about how much more it would hurt her if i quit being a jw.

i really do love my parents, i know they are just being cruelly manipulated by a cult and that they really think they are doing what is best for me.

stan livedeath
DesirousOfChange
Doubtfully Yours
18 hours ago
Wild_Thing
11
JW History in Pictures #1
by Wild_Thing in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 2 days ago
the death of a cult leader.

the gaudy and ostentatiousness of the proceedings following the death of charles taze russell is really interesting to look at.

i can't decide if it is further proof of how much of a cult they were, even back then, or how much they are just like other religions, like the catholics.

Wild_Thing
jaydee
Wild_Thing
6 hours ago
freeandcontent
37
am i overreacting?
by freeandcontent in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 2 days ago
hi, new here but have been lurking for a while.

some background first, i am from the uk, 3rd gen born in, dad, grandad elders etc.

17 years ago i left, no df or da just left, 18 years old and alone but i did it and have had no regrets.

KateWild
Heaven
Iown Mylife
14 hours ago
stephanie61092
8
Help with reinstatement letter!!!
by stephanie61092 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 2 days ago
good morning everyone,.

first, i know some of you may feel very obligated to tell me "why would you want to get back in?!

i hate that i have to do this but i have to play their game.

TheFadingAlbatros
Crazyguy
Landy
a day ago
olongapo joe
To Jrk, ( not jw related) general interest.
by olongapo joe in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 2 days ago
as you were the only one to ask for the continuation of my story, this is for jrk.

sorry this took so long.

while i genuinely love to read others experiences and thoughts on jw matters.

sloppyjoe2
11
Partaking of emblems
by sloppyjoe2 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 2 days ago
this year will be my first for by going to the memorial.

i will get asked by my parents how i can deny jesus even if i don't believe the end is close.

my thoughts on this are as follows, bear in mind saying it's all make believe is not an option.. i think that jesus intended for everyone to eat the bread and drink the wine.

under the radar
Beth Sarim
Heartsafire
a day ago
StephaneLaliberte
11
The reward of being a nice guy!
by StephaneLaliberte in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 2 days ago
today, an old jw friend came to visit a member of my family who is still active.

i saw them leave together to run errands.

when they left, she didn't say hi and barely looked at me.. after taking care of my cores around the house, i noticed that the sister had forgot to turn off the head lights of her car.

stuckinarut2
Witness 007
Conanthebeliever
2 days ago
ILoveTTATT2
6
Brooklyn Eagle November 12, 1911: Shows that this cult has been breaking up families at least for 105 years
by ILoveTTATT2 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 2 days ago
i am doing investigation on the early history of the bible students / jehovah's witnesses.

one resource that is turning out to be extremely useful is the brooklyn eagle.. .

the brooklyn eagle was a newspaper that had a lot of animosity against the watchtower society.

Tenacious
Dagney
LongHairGal
10 hours ago
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Hi your df but your invited to the memorial but we will not welcome you or talk to you .
by poopie 4 days ago 17 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw friends
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poopie
poopie 4 days ago
But your welcome to come as guest we just will not talk to you stupid idiot
 +11 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 4 days ago

But there are many DFd people who have not discovered TTATT. They still think JWs are God's chosen Organization, but they also realize that they fall short of living by [God's] the rules.
Doc

 +8 / -0
kairos
kairos 4 days ago

I get very upset when JWs do anything in their minds that they think might 'win us over without a word'.
My wife's sister sends over food for me now and then.
Her brother in law texted her to give me a message for a construction project.
Then the invites...
I hear:
"Hey, look at me! I care about you.
If you sit in the back of the KH and pretend you are obeying the GB until the eldurz are ready to judge you , then we will talk to you again..."
---
Never going to happen. NEVER.
{ That is, me going back to the KH or getting the invitation to do so )
 +5 / -0
Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Billy the Ex-Bethelite 4 days ago

They're passive-aggressive to the degree that they need to regularly remind you that they're not talking to you.
Jesus did that all the time.

 +14 / -0
Vanderhoven7
Vanderhoven7 4 days ago

Two JWs stopped by my place this afternoon. Their names were Frank (who I had 3 Bible Studies with previously) and John (whose brother is a deacon in the Orthodox church).
They showed me a two minute video about Jesus' death, asked a question about immortality of the soul, and invited me and my family to their bogus memorial. I asked John how he had become a Christian and then I shared my testimony. They left me with a reduced WT and a "You will be with me in Paradise" pamphlet.
I just may attend the memorial and record the proceedings if possible.
 +4 / -0
FayeDunaway
FayeDunaway 3 days ago
They'll invite you to the feast and won't speak to you, make you sit under the table and hope for crumbs. (Oh, but don't eat those crumbs, you aren't 'ANOINTED'!)
 +5 / -0
Beth Sarim
Beth Sarim 3 days ago
It seems like what the JW's do with their pre-emptive shunning and policies on ignoring people prove positive to how Jesus actually was.
 +1 / -0
smiddy
smiddy 3 days ago

Do J.W.`s ever invite known apostates to the memorial ? would they ever do so ? or is that a complete no,no.?
Or is one who is classed as an apostate , one that has committed the unforgivable sin .?
If they should invite you to the memorial in their D2D work and then discover you are an apostate , do they take back that invitation ? and say you are not welcome to attend ?
Just wondering
smiddy
 +1 / -0
Divergent
Divergent 3 days ago
I recommend attending the memorial Judas style. Attend, then leave halfway with the contribution box =)
 +9 / -0
Fisherman
Fisherman 3 days ago
Memorial is a public meeting open to everyone that is not disruptive. Relating to DF and apostates, maybe the information will straighten out some of their thinking and move them to repentance? That is what the invitation is about. Seems that many DF are still believers. An apostate has become an enemy of Jehovah and Jehovah will deal with him but JW don't go around retaliating against apostates. How would you feel if your own brother turned Judas on you, it would hurt. King David did not hate Absalom and JW do not hate apostates.
 +0 / -7
Vidiot
Vidiot 3 days ago

"You're not giving us enough opportunities to ostracize you, but
coming to the memorial will give everyone a chance to get caught up.
Won't that be spiritually uplifting?"


 +5 / -0
Sabin
Sabin 2 days ago
AAAAHHHHHH! feel the love.
 +1 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 2 days ago

I think JWS like Dfed people around so they can pose their own self righteous judgmental viewpoint over them.
Kind of like... ha ha your ass is grass, I'm going to live in paradise, you wont !

 +1 / -0
zeb
zeb 2 days ago
I have not entered the kh in some years. I feel inclined to go just to meet and greet some dfd ones if there is any.
 +1 / -0
Iown Mylife
Iown Mylife 2 days ago

I'm d'asso! I could wear jeans!!!
Marina
 +1 / -0
steve2
steve2 2 days ago

This is truly a unique experience:
Where else will you receive a "warm"invitation to attend a special meeting and be snubbed by your hosts should you accept it?
 +2 / -0
Half banana
Half banana 2 days ago
Ritual humiliation=slavish dependancy
 +1 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 2 days ago


Hi your df but your invited to the memorial but we will not welcome you or talk to you .
.Image result for Watchtower logoWBT$ INVITATION TO HUMILIATIONImage result for Watchtower logo
........................You Showed Up?!.....*gag*
................................Sit At The Back..
........................TRY NOT TO BE NOTICED..

.............Image result for humiliation
 +1 / -0

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Inviting disfellowshipped to the memorial
by wannaexit 4 days ago 25 Replies latest 3 days ago   jw friends
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wannaexit
wannaexit 4 days ago

I read in a European ex jw forum that this year they are making a special effort to invite not only the inactive but also a special effort is made to invite all disfellowshipped.

I don't know if this as always been a common practice, or something started anew so they can boast about the numbers of attendees.

 +2 / -0
Skedaddle
Skedaddle 4 days ago
They're scared of their figures going down! It's always about the org. Nothing else. My guess is a lot woke up this year and that would include the sympathetics who normally attend the annual memorial. I'm sure the new africans will make up the loss...
 +3 / -0
tiki
tiki 4 days ago
Are they going to rope off a section of seats so the rest of the attendees don't get sullied by their presence?
 +3 / -0
sieborg
sieborg 4 days ago
No Hell-der has been in touch with me, as yet. although my dad asked my wife to give me an invitation. Needless to say if any Hell-der from my old cong comes a calling with an invite they will get told to go forth and multiply.
 +1 / -0
Anders Andersen
Anders Andersen 4 days ago

@Wanneexit,
Care to share what forum that was?


Not that I will ever even think about visiting other forums, that apostatize from our apostate ways.
Noooo, because then Simon would disfellowship probably me here.
Oh wait....



j/k
 +2 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 4 days ago
I think they say it but don't actually do it. No ones contacted me, the ones I've seen come that we're dfd or inactive came because family asked them to not the elders.
 +1 / -0
Landy
Landy 4 days ago
Always been the case - at least at my old cong 20 years ago - the elders used to try to contact them if possible.
 
Poztate
Poztate 4 days ago

A letter was sent out to the BOE's almost two months ago. The elders were instructed to contact all Da's Df'ed and Faders to invite them to Memorial and also leave with them a copy of the Return to Jehovah magazine.
They naturally would still be shunned at the meeting if they take the Elders up on their "kind offer"
If the numbers go up at Memorial this year I am sure next year we will see much of the same.
 
mercedes_29
mercedes_29 4 days ago
I was called by two elders from my old hall. I've been out since 2007 and this was the first time they've ever called me to invite me to the memorial.
 
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 4 days ago

Aright you filthy DFers, you can come to the Memorial but sit in the back and shut up, we'll be watching that you don't talk anyone, if you do your ass is grass.



 +2 / -0
brandnew
brandnew 4 days ago

That would like mean ....like...talkin to us n stufffff..ya know....n stuff😂😂😂
Mad Puppy
 +2 / -0
redpilltwice
redpilltwice 4 days ago

Poztate wrote: The elders were instructed to contact all Da's Df'ed and Faders to invite them to Memorial
Well, then I guess it's official now...I'm a fader in the eyes of my cong. Good for them, even better for me
Last week an elder came to explain that the cong don't get it anymore (I'm close to six months of fading). Yesterday two elders stood at my door but I was on the toilet and my wife didn't want to invite them inside because of all our children being at home, not telling where I was  I waited 'til they were gone and my wife showed me two invitations they gave us for the memorial...no way!
 +3 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 4 days ago


Inviting disfellowshipped to the memorial
...........This is Our Special Invitation...................................oh it`s you.....*GAG*

....To a Special Watchtower Celebration!....................Just Sit in The Back And Try..

...........TO TREAT YOU LIKE A LEPER..............................NOT TO BE NOTICED!..

Image result for JW>Org Broadcasting............Image result for snobby
 +6 / -0
StephaneLaliberte
StephaneLaliberte 4 days ago

If I was disfellowshipped, I would have a lot of fun with this. I can imagine the conversation:
- Why should I go?
- Jesus said: "Keep doing this".
- Who was he talking to? Me or the anointed?
- The anointed, but, by extension, the great crowd, us, you.
- So, you want to invite me, and the general public, to a memorial celebration to which I am not part of. It doesn't sound right.
Could you imagine verses in the bible that would explain how Jesus invited the public to a certain place, had them seated in a large room and asked them to wait patiently while he shared wine and bread with his 12 disciples, no one else? Then, how he went to a podium and explained to them that though they were not part of that ceremony, they were welcome to have witnessed it; They too, would benefit from that arrangement. Can you imagine how that would be written in the bible? How it would actually have happened? What would it say about Jesus' personality?
I'm puzzled by what you're doing with this. The Jewish Passover was a "sacred" meal shared with the family and close friends; Jesus made it his own by adding the wine and the bread at the very end. Why would that not be sufficient?

Why not keep it simple?
 +7 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon 4 days ago

I'm not a glutton for punishment, kiss my rear. Oh I wish someone would invite me.
I guess you have DF ones and A hole Apostates, I will never receive invitation the word is out.
My family believe I'm the son of Beeizebub.
 +2 / -0
Beth Sarim
Beth Sarim 4 days ago
I just don't think this is anything new, inviting df'd ones to Memorial.
 
kairos
kairos 4 days ago

If any DARE to come to my house and offer me an invitation...
I will invite them right in, offer a coffee or something and start in on a full throttle TTATT presentation! Why the hell not?
I am DF'd for ADMITTED APOSTASY!!
 Come on over friends!
Any JW that comes to me at this point is already up to there neck in doubt and has no other outlet. I'm not holding my breath.
( this comment also fits the JW fantasy topic, I think )
 +4 / -0
problemaddict 2
problemaddict 2 4 days ago
I'm not disfellowshipped, but I have faded pretty decently. I really hope this doesn't get them thinking about contacting me. If they did, I am not sure it would go well.

 
BeautifulMind
BeautifulMind 4 days ago
I'm not dissed, but I hope they don't come knocking. Not interested
 +1 / -0
Daniel1555
Daniel1555 3 days ago

If my family or any others invite me, i'll tell them: "Don't worry, I will commemorate Jesus death but in my way. Do you really think I will go there and be stared at but shunned by anyone?"
Then I would open a good bottle of wine and think how happy I am that I left this organisation.
 +3 / -0

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Inviting disfellowshipped to the memorial
by wannaexit 4 days ago 25 Replies latest 3 days ago   jw friends
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SAHS
SAHS 3 days ago

In a way, that would be somewhat dumb to have a membership reclamation drive targeted at the disfellowshipped “ones” because there may be a few of them who have learned TTATT, at least in the meantime, and would want to be partaking of the emblems just to make a public statement – thus inflating this year’s number of partakers all the more, and, in the process, showing the whole WT Memorial thing to be the farce which it really is.
But, I mean, when you really think of it, . . . . just passing the emblems which supposedly represent the body and blood of the “Lord and Saviour” without partaking, unless you’re of a little supposed elite “class” of folks now only to be found within WT land and supposedly comprising a literal number which is representing symbolic numbers (i.e., 144,000 = literal, but the 12 tribes of Israel = symbolic), . . . . I mean, really now! The whole premise of their own take on things just smacks of contrived delusion pulled out of a black hat by its fanciful long ears. Ta-daaaa!
 
John Free
John Free 3 days ago
They don't count everyone that partakes of the emblems anymore. Only the ones 'they' think are 'really' anointed.
 +1 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon 3 days ago

"The ones 'they' think are 'really' anointed. That's funny, Jehovah don't decide anymore...
If a person is nuts and believe he or she is anointed let Jehovah tell them when they reach
heaven gates.
 
bradford
bradford 3 days ago
Do elders have specific direction to only count those that are "exemplary" good standing ones?
 
zeb
zeb 3 days ago
After how some have been treated by elders in the matter of dfd it is just amazing that the society should be so stupid to think the dfd ones would even consider going back.
 +3 / -0
James Jack
James Jack 3 days ago

A Watchtower article in 1991 came out inviting all DF and DA to come back. A letter to the BOE, said every September the BOE should have a meeting and discuss any of those known that are in the Territory, who are Inactive, DF or DA, should be contacted. But if they are known Apostates, or living a scandalous lifestyle, leave them alone.
Every year when the CO came around he would make sure we have followed through on this directive and wanted a list those Elders who were assigned these calls.
 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
i read in a european ex jw forum that this year they are making a special effort to invite not only the inactive but also a special effort is made to invite all disfellowshipped.
.
i don't know if this as always been a common practice, or something started anew so they can boast about the numbers of attendees..



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JWs win 2015 Bronze Telly Award in the “Online Video News Feature”
by OrphanCrow 19 hours ago 25 Replies latest 4 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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OrphanCrow
OrphanCrow 19 hours ago

JWorg is carrying a "news" article concerning their recent win of a Telly Award.
I don't need to add to the JWorg website hits, so here is the award listed on the Telly Award website:
https://www.tellyawards.com/winners/list/?l=jehovah%27s&event=16&category=3&award=B
2015 Online Video Bronze Winners

Jehovah's Witnesses Office of Public Information

JW.ORG NewsroomNews Update: Jehovah's Witnesses Moving ForwardOnline Video - News/News FeatureBrooklyn, NY Jehovah's Witnesses Office of Public Information

JW.ORG NewsroomStanley Theater RenovationOnline Video - News/News FeatureBrooklyn, NY
Winners for the Telly Awards are selected from entries that are submitted by the producers themselves - for a fee, of course.
https://www.tellyawards.com/how_to_enter/fees/
 +2 / -0
sir82
sir82 19 hours ago

What da hey?
Who'd they beat out, ISIS recruiting videos?

 +13 / -0
baker
baker 18 hours ago
They beat out the Pope,s apology tour.
 +3 / -0
konceptual99
konceptual99 18 hours ago

Getting an award you have paid for is a bit like saying the Bible is true because it says so itself.
https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/45/866929
 +7 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 18 hours ago

Alright!!!😎
DY
 +0 / -1
OrphanCrow
OrphanCrow 18 hours ago

konceptual: Getting an award you have paid for is a bit like saying the Bible is true because it says so itself.
It appears like the Telly Awards are set up to promote and publicize the producers of the work. This award that JWorg "won" as a result of entering the competition, is actually an advertising scheme.
https://www.tellyawards.com/winners/publicity_tools/


This section is to help Telly Award Winners publicize their award winning work.
You have been selected as a Telly Award Winner out of nearly 12,000 entries from all 50 states and 5 continents and now's your chance to share this outstanding accomplishment with the rest of the world. This also gives you a chance to salute your team and recognize the time and effort they put in to create award winning work.
To help out, you'll find links below to several tools to help you promote and publicize your win.
Being selected as a Telly Award Winner presents a great opportunity to create buzz in the media and throughout your industry, bringing you front and center among potential clients and partners.
Check out our suggestions below and start spreading the word!
This is humorous. The statuettes that JWorg is displaying on their website along with the amazing win article, would have been purchased by the Watchtower. Lol!https://www.tellyawards.com/awards/awards/

Designed by the same firm that makes the Oscar® and Emmy®, the Telly statuette is nearly 12 inches tall and weighs more than 4 1/2 pounds. Winners that wish to commemorate their achievement will have the opportunity to purchase a winner's package, which includes one statuette and one commemorative certificate. If you wish to honor other members of your team, your client, or anyone else involved in your award-winning entry, additional statuettes and certificates are available.
 +5 / -0
Londo111
Londo111 18 hours ago

“Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven. So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.”—Matthew 6:1-2
Of course, this passage doesn't apply to the Watchtower because they don't give to the poor. When they blow their trumpet, it's about something inconsequential.
 +8 / -0
brandnew
brandnew 18 hours ago
Wow.....buying your own trophys???? How desperate is that??? Just wow.!!!
 +4 / -0
sir82
sir82 18 hours ago

Aha, so it's like one of those "Who's Who" gigs.
Back when I was a lad, and getting pretty good grades, I'd get weekly or so mail offers (pre-internet) asking me to purchase a copy of "Who's Who in American High Schools" or some such bosh.
And who was in this "Who's Who", you might ask?
Why, all the nitwits who parted with the $60 or $70 dollars to purchase the book, of course!

 +3 / -0
JRK
JRK 17 hours ago

Bragging about an award you have paid for is like bragging about getting laid by a hooker.
JK
 +9 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 17 hours ago

Can the hating stop already?!
Que sera, sera, people!!!
Live and let live!!!
DY
 +0 / -6
OrphanCrow
OrphanCrow 17 hours ago

Doubtfully Yours: Can the hating stop already?!
Don't be ridiculous. Since when is being honest and exposing hypocrisy considered "hate"?
 +6 / -0
juandefiero
juandefiero 17 hours ago

This award is such BS. It's a PR/Marketing scam.
Worthless on a resume, unless the hiring manager has no idea what a Telly is.
 +5 / -0
OrphanCrow
OrphanCrow 17 hours ago

Juan: Worthless on a resume, unless the hiring manager has no idea what a Telly is.
Or...as in the case of JWorg, it is worthless unless the people reading the JWorg website have no idea what a Telly is. For the Watchtower, those purchased statuettes are pure gold to be used as propaganda tools.
 +5 / -0
Phizzy
Phizzy 17 hours ago
They should have been given a Bronze Age Award, that is the time frame they are stuck in.
 +3 / -0
jaydee
jaydee 17 hours ago
seriously......???.......Image result for golden poop emoji
 +8 / -0
betterdaze
betterdaze 16 hours ago

What CAN’T those brilliant Bethel boys accomplish with Sophia’s ice cream money and Satan’s worldly technology?
Actually, their cult competitors beat them to it:
Scientology wins a major award! Mind power vindicated!
Scientology wins a major award again! Galaxy Press vindicated!

 +3 / -0
Heaven
Heaven 15 hours ago

Just when you think they can't sink any lower...

 +3 / -1
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 14 hours ago


JWs win 2015 Bronze Telly Award in the “Online Video News Feature”
Winners for the Telly Awards are selected from entries
that are submitted by the producers themselves - for a fee, of course.
..............................................................We Nominated Ourselves and WON!..
..................................I Wonder How Many Other Journalistic Awards the Watchtower Can Buy..

...............................................................WE CAN BUY THEM ALL!!....LOL!!..

Image result for Telly Award......Image result for JW.Org Broadcasting
 +5 / -0
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 14 hours ago

The GB could win a Belly Award aswell.
The writing department a Smelly Award.
Hmmm this could be the start of a whole swathe of crappy awards for WT.
 +2 / -0

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JWs win 2015 Bronze Telly Award in the “Online Video News Feature”
by OrphanCrow 19 hours ago 25 Replies latest 5 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 13 hours ago
"they are having their reward in full" - Jesus
 +5 / -0
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 9 hours ago


http://blog.pelland.com/2011/06/11/an-award-is-an-award-or-is-it/
DD
 +1 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 9 hours ago

Good Catch DD..

 We also received a similar direct mail piece from the Telly Awards. According to their website, they received 14,000 entries last year from small agencies that were hoping to promote their businesses, each paying a minimum entry fee of $85.00. Do the math. That means that this questionable award generated at least $1,190,000.00 for its promoters! Want to, once again, add insult to injury? If you “win” one of these dubious awards, you will be automatically charged an additional $170.00 for your award statuette (probably plastic) and your certificate. I guess this is a bargain compared to the Davey Awards, since the minimum entry fee is slightly less, and you will pay $5.00 less for your statuette if you “win”.
 +4 / -0
breakfast of champions
breakfast of champions 8 hours ago

Ok . . .
So I glanced at this thread briefly this afternoon. . .
WTF?
So, really now:
What would be the response if I shared News Update: Jehovah's Witnesses Moving Forward on my FB account with the caption "Watch this Telly-Award-winning piece featuring Donald Trump's son-in-law"?
Oh the cognitive dissonance . . . .. .
 +1 / -0
OrphanCrow
OrphanCrow 7 hours ago

boc: What would be the response if I shared News Update: Jehovah's Witnesses Moving Forwardon my FB account with the caption "Watch this Telly-Award-winning piece featuring Donald Trump's son-in-law"?
Oh geez...I didn't know that.
Now that is funny.
*snicker*
 
brandnew
brandnew 5 hours ago
So ummm how many childrens ice creams did this award cost ? Wow😡
 

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Topic Summary
jworg is carrying a "news" article concerning their recent win of a telly award.. i don't need to add to the jworg website hits, so here is the award listed on the telly award website:.
https://www.tellyawards.com/winners/list/?l=jehovah%27s&event=16&category=3&award=b.
2015 online video bronze winners.



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by blondie 3 months ago



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JWs win 2015 Bronze Telly Award in the “Online Video News Feature”
by OrphanCrow in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 19 hours ago
jworg is carrying a "news" article concerning their recent win of a telly award.. i don't need to add to the jworg website hits, so here is the award listed on the telly award website:.

https://www.tellyawards.com/winners/list/?l=jehovah%27s&event=16&category=3&award=b.

2015 online video bronze winners.

breakfast of champions
OrphanCrow
brandnew
5 hours ago
pleaseresearch
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 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
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growing up the internet was starting out and it became big just as something between my legs became much bigger.. porn for me was used to learn about sex and the different positions and places it can be had.

although how porn movies starts never happens in real life.. just wondering if you had an issue with porn before or now.

i know it's a touchy subject but i have the biggest respect for terry crews who came out and admitted he had a massive problem with it.. i think most jws have had to fight back, because being told constantly to be good, we can only do that for so long.. .

Finkelstein
Finkelstein
Finkelstein
14 hours ago
Bangalore
12
Jury Awards $100K To Family Of Jehovah's Witness Who Died After Refusing Blood Transfusion
by Bangalore in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Blood, Medical Treatment & Depression
 20 hours ago
jury awards $100k to family of jehovah's witness who died after refusing blood transfusion.. http://www.dailyreportonline.com/id=1202750028414/jury-awards-100k-to-family-of-jehovahs-witness-who-died-after-refusing-blood-transfusion?mcode=0&curindex=0&curpage=all.

bangalore.

OrphanCrow
TheListener
OrphanCrow
15 hours ago
atomant
20
Had a operation today and was asked about blood transfusions.
by atomant in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Blood, Medical Treatment & Depression
 a day ago
operation was successful only minor but some interesting information was revealed to me from the surgeon.l requested that they treat me as if l was a jehovahs witness with regards to blood transfusions.the doctor said well that varies from jw to jw and l asked what do you mean?his response was that in his dealings with jw's was that approx half of witnesses will accept a blood transfusion in life threatening circumstances and sign a form saying so.l was blown away when he told me this.l was curious if others in here have heard similar storys.lt seems to me that many witnesses have weakened their stance on this controversial subject.

Vanderhoven7
Lee Elder
GrreatTeacher
7 hours ago
cofty
7
Evolution is a Fact #28 - Something Darwin Didn't Say
by cofty in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 a day ago
one of my friends posted an inspirational picture on facebook this morning.

even before i checked i knew that it was a fictional quote.

it was written by somebody who has not grasped a basic fact about evolution.. darwin did not say this.... it is a common misunderstanding that evolution favours individuals who are able to adapt to their environment.

Clearview
slimboyfat
Ruby456
15 minutes ago
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JWs at Rolling Stones Concert!
by Atlantis 2 days ago 30 Replies latest 20 hours ago   watchtower bible
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Atlantis
Atlantis 2 days ago

Was this done for an advertising stunt?
Received this in an email.
------------------------------------------------
.

A few days ago in Porto Alegre there was a Rolling Stones concert. 49,000 were in attendance and the brothers set up 39 carts in the area for everyone to see.



.
.
Atlantis!
 +1 / -0
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 2 days ago

They are pathetic.
Edit: If it shows up in a monthly broadcast, then we will know it's pure propaganda, and not just some local J-Dumbs.
DD
 
Atlantis
Atlantis 2 days ago

Well it doesn't look like the picture is going to show up, but the JWs had 39 literature carts all lined up like a wall of literature.
None of my pictures will show up on the board and I can't figure out why.
Thanks anyway!
Atlantis!
 +3 / -0
punkofnice
punkofnice 2 days ago

Wow. 49,000 people to totally ignore them. I hope the JWs sang along to the chorus of 'Star Star'
 +1 / -0
ToesUp
ToesUp 2 days ago

"Wow. 49,000 people to totally ignore them."
Yup Punk, my thoughts as well. Just what I would want to do if at a Stones concert, stop and get some litter trash.
 +2 / -0
Atlantis
Atlantis 2 days ago
Here you go!
.
http://we.tl/3fy0F7OWSg
.
.
Atlantis!
 
sir82
sir82 2 days ago

 "Pleased to meet you, won't you take my tract"

 +8 / -0
Atlantis
Atlantis 2 days ago
Try this!
.
http://postimg.org/image/3mklq9gef/
.
.
Atlantis!
 
talesin
talesin 2 days ago


 +1 / -0
AFRIKANMAN
AFRIKANMAN 2 days ago

Obviously they "can get no satisfaction" doing it any other way !
Galling !
 +3 / -0
redpilltwice
redpilltwice 2 days ago

What the hell are the JDubs doing there? Haven't they heard of the song "Sympathy for the devil"?
(2 Corinthians 6:14) . . .. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness?

 +1 / -0
TheListener
TheListener 2 days ago
Nothing screams mass indoctrination and cult like a wall of literature carts at a Rolling Stones concert.
 +5 / -0
Je.suis.oisif
Je.suis.oisif 2 days ago

I was gobsmacked when I first saw this. Totally smacks of desperation.
If it rains, do you think theyll be singing Gimme Shelter
 +2 / -0
punkofnice
punkofnice 2 days ago
I'd like to see them at a Casting Crowns concert
 
Atlantis
Atlantis 2 days ago

They try pulling that at a "Rammstein" concert and they will get their ass kicked!
Atlantis!
 +1 / -0
MrsR-Awaken
MrsR-Awaken 2 days ago

This shows me How Desperate these people are. It makes me sick.

It's true it's here
 +1 / -0
NVR2L8
NVR2L8 2 days ago
Pathetic
 +1 / -0
neat blue dog
neat blue dog 2 days ago
The branch office charges the congregations $40 a piece for the carts, (and they're only available in 2's), so 39 carts cost them around $1,500 dollars. Just saying.
 
neat blue dog
neat blue dog 2 days ago
Double Post
 
neat blue dog
neat blue dog 2 days ago
DP
 +1 / -0

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JWs at Rolling Stones Concert!
by Atlantis 2 days ago 30 Replies latest 20 hours ago   watchtower bible
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Gayle
Gayle 2 days ago
"Watchtower barricades itself against the world with their crosses, er I mean, carts!!"
 
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 2 days ago

JWs Never Miss an Opportunity to be Laughed at..
49,000 "Rolling Stones" Fans x 39 JW.ORG WatchTower Literature Carts.....EQUALS
.
...............1,911,000 Opportunities..

...To Laugh at JW`s and The WatchTower..
.....Image result for laughing and pointing at youImage result for Porto Alegre Rolling Stones concert.jehovahs witnessesImage result for laughing and pointing at you
 +4 / -0
MrsR-Awaken
MrsR-Awaken 2 days ago

I posted this in reddit and there are people that don't belive this is true they say that JWs aren't that daft (stupid) well to me concert or no concert this is Hella daft, they' also state that this isn't enough evidence to proof the pictures were actually taken in that concert.... we'll one thing I can say is the pictures sure proof this religion needs help and is desperate to make people join. Just look at all those carts all together it gives me goosebumps
 +1 / -0
Sabin
Sabin a day ago
You don't understand, they were protecting the rolling stones from their adoring fans. Get back people, we are the Religious Riot Police.
 +1 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein a day ago

If it is true, but I highly suspect it to be bullshit, probably one or two carts were put up.
Really what a bad ineffective place to sell religion at a rock and roll concert full of rebellious adolescents.

But then again some Dimwit JWS which there are many probably took the opportunely of the volume of attendees to sell and promote the WTS.
Just think of the placements we can make ! .
I'll be the cherished and praised hero at the Kingdom Hall for sometime to come !

The persevering adage of Armageddon coming soon influences people to do many adverse unpractical things.

 
SafeAtHome
SafeAtHome a day ago
Is this for real? If it is, all this older lady has to say is Holy F'n Sh##! And if you knew me, you would know I reserve the F word for Cleveland Indians baseball season! 😱
 +1 / -0
John_Mann
John_Mann a day ago
I live in a city nearby Porto Alegre. They did a similar thing last year at Rock in Rio show.
 +1 / -0
John_Mann
John_Mann a day ago

(in portuguese)
http://ultimosegundo.ig.com.br/cultura/musica/2013-09-22/grupo-distribui-mensagens-biblicas-na-fila-para-o-ultimo-dia-de-rock-in-rio.html
"Group share Bible messages in the queue for the last day of Rock in Rio"
 
talesin
talesin a day ago

John Mann, I never thought I would see the day ....... JWS set up at an Iron Maiden concert! hahaha, tks for sharing.
 
bobld
bobld a day ago

Let's see 39 carts and 6 jw per cart smiling with glee at an opportunity to enjoy
great music and not bring reproach upon the org.No jw police to tell them that
going to such a entertainment is worshipping satan and a waste of time.Oh
I said 6jw per cart but their were 10 or more as a back up.

 
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 20 hours ago

Next time anyone learns of the dubs planning something similar, organize a flash-mob through Twitter or something. Imagine, instead of being ignored, a huge mob accepts all the litterature in 30 seconds!
It would probably make it into the Yearbook! LOL!!!
DD
 

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Topic Summary
was this done for an advertising stunt?
received this in an email.. ------------------------------------------------.
.. a few days ago in porto alegre there was a rolling stones concert.



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punkofnice
JW terminology
by punkofnice 9 months ago
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BIBLE QUESTIONS ANSWERED - Luke 14:28
by Esse quam videri 10 months ago
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Misleading The Australian Royal Commission
by mtwtf 7 months ago
blondie
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 09-20-2015 WT Study (LOYALTY)
by blondie 6 months ago
Cadellin
Interesting Pew Stats on JWs--Alarming Trends for the Borg
by Cadellin 10 months ago



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Old Nick
by Carol1111 2 days ago 2 Replies latest 2 days ago   watchtower beliefs
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Carol1111
Carol1111 2 days ago
A friend had some JW's knock at his door and satan was discussed. My friend kept referring to satan as 'Old Nick'. The JW's seemed rather upset by this. Is the JW regard for satan a form of worship?
 
punkofnice
punkofnice 2 days ago
Sounds like they're just being prescious about 'correct' titles and names. My Dad was a JW and referred to the Debbil as Old Nick from stilton
 
Phizzy
Phizzy 2 days ago

It annoys JW's if you do not seem to be going along with their view that the debbil is a real entity.
They also get annoyed if you refer to their god as jehoober and them as jehubbadubbs.
 +3 / -0

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umbertoecho
22
umbertoecho re the ARC
by umbertoecho in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Scandals & Coverups
 a day ago
hello to everyone.. i hope you are all well and sorting things out between yourselves.

i have temporary internet access which is probably a good thing for now.

i have been contacted by the arc in a respectful and loving manner today.

millie210
LisaRose
JWdaughter
4 hours ago
Old Goat
If the Watchtower Society Had done this
by Old Goat in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 a day ago
we've had a few threads about schulz and de vienne's books and historical research.

if the watchtower had done done something similar and as honestly, i might still be a witness.

shame on them for hiding history.. a rough draft of part of schulz and de vienne's next book is here:.

Atlantis
4
2016 April 4-25 Answer Sheet!
by Atlantis in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 a day ago
2016 april 4-25 answer sheet..http://postimg.org/image/680x1d9ul/..atlantis!

Atlantis
Bangalore
Atlantis
17 hours ago
mamacita29
4
Bible prophecy coming true! Mark 4:22
by mamacita29 in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 2 days ago
mark 4:22. for there is nothing hidden that will not be exposed; nothing is carefully concealed that will not come out in the open.. to bad the watchtower bible and cult society of pa doesn't realize this prophecy applies to them along with a hundred other prophecies that point to the evil slave, forked tongue, making failed predictions and being proven false.

so many come to mind.

we need to share this with everyone and turn the bible on them.

mamacita29
Finkelstein
Crazyguy
a day ago
Terry
12
PAROUSIA: The Watchtower's IRON BALLOON
by Terry in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 2 days ago
the iron balloon: parousia.

“up, up and away in my beautiful.

.balloon,” is the lyric of a popular song from the 60’s.. it captures an emotional exhilaration lifting us from everyday life way up into the sky away from all our cares and woe.. .

Island Man
Island Man
Terry
14 hours ago
pleaseresearch
6
Undercover meeting.
by pleaseresearch in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 2 days ago
i think this is by far the best way to reach jws and wake them up.

to go to a kh where nobody knows you and seem interested but raise questions either before or after the meeting.

if it only helps one person, it's worth it.. some may say it's sneaky etc... but no way can you talk to a brother on the ministry in a negative way.

Beth Sarim
NewYork44M
stuckinarut2
2 days ago
Atlantis
25
To Scully--A Tribute!
by Atlantis in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 2 days ago
if you are a new person to the board you might want to send scully a pm thanking her for her hard work and dedication.

the boe project owes her for helping it to get started.. example:.

several years ago there was a website called (dirtclod.com) who had the courage to display the boes right out in front of everybody.

Bangalore
jookbeard
Stirred
19 hours ago
Da.Furious
8
JW TV Monthly Broadcast - 3rd unofficial Meeting!
by Da.Furious in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 2 days ago
did any one notice that the monthly broadcast on jw tv is being treated like a meeting similar to the old book study arrangement?.

at our kh, in uk, all congregations meeting at the hall have a monthly arrangement for this.

some have a group arrangement and alternate between family homes to watch the broadcast and some use the kh on weekends.. this arrangement in our congregation, at least, is being treated as a meeting for each of the groups.

darkspilver
Da.Furious
darkspilver
12 hours ago
Atlantis
30
JWs at Rolling Stones Concert!
by Atlantis in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 2 days ago
was this done for an advertising stunt?

received this in an email.. ------------------------------------------------.

.. a few days ago in porto alegre there was a rolling stones concert.

talesin
bobld
DATA-DOG
20 hours ago
Carol1111
2
Old Nick
by Carol1111 in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 2 days ago
a friend had some jw's knock at his door and satan was discussed.

my friend kept referring to satan as 'old nick'.

the jw's seemed rather upset by this.

punkofnice
Phizzy
2 days ago
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What Jehovah's Witnesses believe and why they do what they do
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Investigations into the WatchTower organisations United Nations (UN) involvement etc...
 113,679 posts in  5,622 topics

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Child Molestation & Abuse Issues and other coverups
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Is the WT’s Paradise Earth doctrine a delusion?
by deegee 2 days ago 44 Replies latest 7 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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deegee
deegee 2 days ago

The WT’s teaching that humans will live forever on a paradise earth will necessitate that given that there will be no more death, then immortal humans will have to be relocated to other planets in order to prevent the earth from becoming overpopulated.

So how many habitable, earth-like planets are there?
More and more habitable, earth-like planets would have to become available on a continuous, never-ending basis ad infinitum as mankind’s population grows given that there will be no more death.
The longevity/sustainability of life on these planets will be limited by the fact that the sun serving these planets will eventually die:https://shar.es/1Cko6N
http://www.space.com/22437-main-sequence-stars.html#sthash.EjBT1xRZ.dpuf
So immortal humans will have to keep moving from planet to planet. Will other habitable, earth-like planets become available to facilitate this movement from planet to planet on a continuous basis ad infinitum?
Not to mention the fact that the time for interstellar travel between planets would have to be reduced from the current hundreds or thousands of years - but I suppose if man will be living forever it won't matter that immortal humans may need to spend hundreds or thousands of years travelling from one planet to the next; hopefully sthe fopod will last for the entire journey (some scientists claim that interstellar travel at warp speed is theoretically possible - perhaps this limitation is why Paradise has been delayed).
http://www.sciencealert.com/warp-speed-travel-is-theoretically-possible-according-to-top-astrophysicist
Things could get quite busy in space with the number of space craft and trips required to move billions of humans from planet to planet. Hopefully the JWs will have the necessary skills/expertise to set up such a space program given their stance against higher education, but I suppose it goes without saying: their God will help them set up their space program, so no need to worry about their lack of skills/expertise.
With no death, planets could quickly fill up within hundreds or thousands of years depending on their size.
If there was no death on planet earth since man’s beginning, for example, the earth’s population would be over 108 billion today (the earth's population density would be 5 times that of China):http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2002/HowManyPeopleHaveEverLivedonEarth.aspx
So how many habitable, earth-like planets are there?
Will enough habitable, earth-like planets become available on a continuous, never-ending basis ad infinitum in order to accommodate immortal human beings whose population would be growing continuously since there will be no death? and since the sun serving the already populated planets will eventually die?
It seems to me that the universe would have to be in continuous expansion mode so as to keep on producing more and more habitable, earth-like planets to accommodate this continuous, never-ending population growth of immortal humans OR, are all of the existing planets going to be converted into habitable, earth-like planets to accommodate:
– the continuous, never-ending population growth of immortal human beings ad infinitum?
– as well as the movement of immortal humans from planet to planet when the sun dies?
Perhaps this is why Armageddon and Paradise has not yet come?
or,
Maybe the simpler, uncomplicated option is just to create human beings as mortals so that they go through a life cycle just like everything else?
 +2 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 2 days ago


Is the WT’s Paradise Earth doctrine a delusion?
.........Does a Lion...At a Party...With a Beach Ball..
........................SOUND DELUSIONAL??!!..

...................Image result for Small arrow pointing down
............Image result for Watchtower paradise
 +16 / -0
smiddy
smiddy 2 days ago

Where in the New Testament / the Christian Greek Scriptures , does it say in so many words that " Christians " a designation by Divine Providence , and not "Jehovah`s Witnesses" , would inherit a Paradise Earth ?
smiddy
 +3 / -0
Anders Andersen
Anders Andersen 2 days ago

Well isn't that what's bound to happen anytime someone tries to construct a logical sound explanation of the collected (and probably mistranslated) superstitions and delusions of ancient folk?
If the foundation is rotten...
 +2 / -0
Anders Andersen
Anders Andersen 2 days ago

@outlaw,
Lol. Can't believe that half a year ago I REALLY BELIEVED THAT SHIT :scream:
While everyone knows there will be no beach balls in Paradise (they could lead to rivalry amongst brother playing a game with it)
 +6 / -0
LostGeneration
LostGeneration 2 days ago

Well, God's magik skillz will prevent what you are talking about, just like he had skillz back in the day with Noah and his awesome ark.
The real question is whether people will have free will in da new earth. Because if they do, they will eventually get fucking tired of petting panda and koala bears. Which means they will start fukkin each other outside of marriage (assuming they still have dicks and vaginas, questionable based on WT doctrine) or they may start smokin weed, snorting coke, or just going ape shit crazy on each other because they are stuck in a so called paradise being ruled by WT dickhead elders. Anyway, paradise earth under JW rules and regulations is nothin' I want to endure...
 +1 / -0
Daniel1555
Daniel1555 2 days ago

You forgot. Jehovah will make a miracle.
Trust in him, you silly one with no faith :wink:
 +2 / -0
Half banana
Half banana 2 days ago
Yes, the WT paradise is a childish delusion.
 +2 / -0
jookbeard
jookbeard 2 days ago
I read an estimate some time back that the total amount of people that have lived on the Earth cound be more than 500 billion , maybe more, whose to know, what was the Earths population 10,000 years ago?,50,000 years ago?
 
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 2 days ago

Of course its born out effected emotions, rather factual rationalized logic.
Religion is a scam. A miracle that results in making men powerful and rich.
Ancient mythology is fiction but can influence people to do empathetic things to one and another.

 +1 / -0
Half banana
Half banana 2 days ago

I agree with you Finky baby.
Jook, I remember reading in the dreaded Awake magazine back in the early 80's that it was thought that approximately one third of people who had ever lived were alive at the present. This typical Awake factoid fed into the idea that a resurrection would not overburden the Earth.
Recent more researched statistics as I understand, puts the total number of Homo sapiens lives ever lived at around 105 billion i.e. about twelve or thirteen times times the present population.
As you say, who can really know but this was a serious statistical attempt.
The more bizarre aspect is to talk blandly about a resurrection of billions of people when not one person ever in all of human history has literally been resurrected.
Let alone having a refugee crisis of astronomical proportions...
Waring a sane non-religious hat...To imagine billions coming back to life is absolutely and unconditionally preposterous!
 +2 / -0
jookbeard
jookbeard 2 days ago
HB, I dont remember that Awake magazine , clearly the authors didn't do their homework!
 +1 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 2 days ago

You could say the WTS is a Multi level marketing scam where people are firstly allured and then designed to be its marketeers.
You are to look a certain predesignated way (wholesome, truthful and honest) and say exactly what the WTS instructs without deviation.
 +1 / -0
dozy
dozy 2 days ago

The WTBTS , although a bit vague on the details , have speculated that there would be no more babies born after a certain time period so that those who have stayed childless for "the truth" ( ie the Society ) can have their children so when the earth was "full" then childbearing would cease.
The waters are muddied somewhat by the "new thought" that perhaps even miscarriages and stillborn babies will be resurrected. The total number of resurrected ones stands at least 30 billion and counting and increasing by 55 million a year ( approx the population of the UK ) - yet apparently everyone gets their own large lakeside luxury villa with several acres of land and superb views ( albeit with no roads - maybe travelling is done by helicopter and everything is delivered by drone - Amazon at last having rolled it out ). The whole doctrine hasn't been thought through and is a real mess and has virtually no biblical support , which is why no other religion has taken it on. But the pictures of children petting pandas and elephants happily trooping along alpine valleys look good.
 +4 / -0
Diogenesister
Diogenesister 2 days ago
OUTLAW! LOL! THANK YOU! MY HSBAND AND I LAUGHED FOR 10 MINUITES STRAIGHT AT YOUR POST!!!!
 
tiki
tiki 2 days ago
Lion with a beach ball... that is too much! Love your inputs always outlawed one.....but as the topic at hand.....perhaps the earth will bloat and enlarge to accomodate all those peeps....or planets will be prepared with atmospheres conducive to human life as we know it. Or perhaps humans will morph into creatures that can survive in atmospheric conditions now not possible. The universe is so vast....the possibilities are endless. Just imagine....or perhaps eventually the earth will fall into a black hole and that will be the end of it as we know it. The scripture does say time indefinite which leaves wiggle room for the demise of the third rock from the sun.
 
Diogenesister
Diogenesister 2 days ago

....So when the laughs died down we continued our conversation...he wasn't aware of the veggie animals and the Noah edict ( has never been a JW, naturally) and I further explained the thread topic and other puzzling stuff like how dinosaurs fit in to witness ideas ....so he has this puzzled look on his face and says " but what are these people and animals going to eat?" [Thinks...] " ah...maybe they WONT EAT...in the paradise!"
😉 And there, sez I, you get a perfect demonstration of how the witnesses get their theology...if there's a hole in your theory...get out of it by digging yourself another one!!
 
dropoffyourkeylee
dropoffyourkeylee 2 days ago
They used to teach that at some point in the millennium there would be no more children born. Going further back to the Russell days, they taught that the humans on earth would be sexless.
 
deegee
deegee 2 days ago

TYPO: ......hopefully sthe fopod will last for the entire journey......
SHOULD READ: .......hopefully the food will last for the entire journey.......
 
ttdtt
ttdtt 2 days ago

That thought bothered me a long time ago.
EVERYTHING in the universe has an expiration date. Planets, stars, galaxies, even it turns out that protons may decay.
But man does not? We can't even be outside to long before we die, but we will live forever?
It's a wonderful dream, but that's all it is.
 

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Is the WT’s Paradise Earth doctrine a delusion?
by deegee 2 days ago 44 Replies latest 7 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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eyeuse2badub
eyeuse2badub 2 days ago

Are there any jw doctrines that are not delusional?
just saying!
eyeuse2badub
 
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 2 days ago
The idea of living in a paradise comes from the Egyptians, they called it the field of reeds. Going to heaven also their idea and so was having a spirit. Getting baptized, circumcision all theirs. Christanity is mostly a copy of this ancient religion.
 +2 / -0
Conanthebeliever
Conanthebeliever 2 days ago

I am pretty new here, and I only know what I have been taught at my studies, so this is what I feel if it is indeed an earthly paradise that will occur.
Not everyone is going to be righteous, or good at heart. We only have to look at the world to see that many, many people do not care for others, but themselves, and themselves alone.
Now-I DO NOT know if these people will be good people, without influence of evil. If they are bad, they would cease to exist as I understand?
So, maybe the world will be big enough, just not enough people will actually make it in the afterlife?
Remember, I am pretty new, so I may be completely wrong, and everyone will be saved. If this is true-then, there definitely will be an overpopulation issue. I am not sure how that would pan out if I am honest, but I believe with God, anything is possible-maybe a lot more land mass would be available, or maybe even the earth would appear bigger?
 +1 / -0
compound complex
compound complex 2 days ago

As to interstellar travel and our dependence upon material goods and support systems, there is no problem. We will transform into Krell ("Forbidden Planet"), who have no need of physical instrumentality. Mere thought becomes a creative force.
Well, for good or for evil.
With the Krell, all things are possible.
CC
 +1 / -0
neverendingjourney
neverendingjourney 2 days ago

The waters are muddied somewhat by the "new thought" that perhaps even miscarriages and stillborn babies will be resurrected.
Jesus, I must have missed this! What an utterly absurd thought!
Roughly half of all pregnancies end in miscarriage, most before the woman even realizes she's pregnant. That means half or more of all people receiving resurrections would be setting foot on the planet for the first time.

 +2 / -0
cyberjesus
cyberjesus 2 days ago

If jebova can take 144,000 in interstellar travel from Earth to the Pleiades constellation in a second he can take the humans to any place he wants. He is very practical and imaginative.
Beside Fred Franz is already with him and he also has some crazy ideas. So don't worry.
 +1 / -0
deegee
deegee 2 days ago

@Conanthebeliever,
According to WT theology, all of the dead are to be resurrected on earth.
How many people have ever lived on earth? 108 billion as at mid-2011 according to Population Reference Bureau estimates:
http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2002/HowManyPeopleHaveEverLivedonEarth.aspx
So the resurrected would contribute approximately 1.8 billion persons to the Paradise earth population - the earth's population density just based on the estimated number of persons to be resurrected would be 5 times that of China.
 
slimboyfat
slimboyfat 2 days ago

I wrote a thread about this but I can't find it. If the Venus Project and the Methuselah Foundation join forces maybe they'll create JW style paradise between them.
https://www.thevenusproject.com
https://www.mfoundation.org

 +2 / -0
stan livedeath
stan livedeath 2 days ago
and to think there are some 7 ? million people on this planet that actually believe this nonsense ? ok--the silly thickos have an excuse---but what about those who appear to be almost intelligent. ?
 
steve2
steve2 2 days ago

Forget the science - or lack - of it all.
I actually am flexible enough to live alongside lions playing with beach balls at parties. Anything to relieve the tedium.
But I refuse to live in a world full of drongoes each sporting their own distinctive nationalistic dress and headwear.
This is Jehovah's fresh new order. We're neutral. So hopefully there will be at long last a worldwide ban on national dress and headwear. Besides, if we are rendered perfect, why the need for any dress or headwear at all?
 
steve2
steve2 2 days ago

and to think there are some 7 ? million people on this planet that actually believe this nonsense ? ok--the silly thickos have an excuse---but what about those who appear to be almost intelligent. ?
Seventh-Day Adventists and Christadelphians also believe in a paradise earth - although their time lines/interpretations etc differ from the JWs. So add at least 20 million more to your number (there are roughly 17 million 7th-Day Adventists and allowing for a generous 2 to 3 million Christadelphians).
 
sloppyjoe2
sloppyjoe2 2 days ago
A lion at a party with a beach ball would trump any party I have ever been to, bring it on!

 +1 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 2 days ago

These original mythical expressions by the ancients were delusional by virtue of their own imagination and ignorance of the world in which they lived, as an expressive need to allure people around this specific faith /worship. Although as it is noted by ancient historians, a Messianic savior god was not exclusively unique to the Jews and following Christians.
There was a ongoing competition between ancient civilizations to create the most powerful reverential god and appealing god and to strengthen and garner support around these belief systems.

To also solidify the power around the spiritually connected Seers ( High Priests) to these god(s).

For example .... That's why Jesus is said that this generation will not pass away and many will not experience death , when he was supposedly talking to his listening followers.

Pretty appealing don't you think ?

As for cultivating followers under this appealing belief worked and continues to work 2000 years further on to this day.
Various men have used these ancient mythological expressions to build a following around themselves as to circumvent a stature of self empowerment as well to the procurement of money.
For example J Rutherford who was the individual who created the JWS name and identity, was a lawyer /businessmen, amateur bible theologian, had this personal intent himself which one could say he successfully achieved.

 +2 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 2 days ago

Just a wonderful, harmless day dream.😎
DY
 
yalbmert99
yalbmert99 2 days ago
https://www.watchtowerlies.com/everlasting_life_on_a_paradise_earth_unlikely.html
 
WTWizard
WTWizard 19 hours ago

From what I saw, the jokehovians believe their god joke-hova can and will sustain the sun and the earth forever. That thing would not allow the sun to go out. Also, once the earth is full to capacity, joke-hova would simply pull the sex rug out from under us forever. That means nothing more than celibacy.
And they want your ice cream money for that?

 +1 / -0
steve2
steve2 18 hours ago

Probably the sun has an extra power source should it ever begin to die out: The billions of humans destryoed at Armageddkn, and the untold numbers at the end of the 1,000-yesr reign of Christ who fall in with Satan.
There will be no shortage of fuel for the sun.
 
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 18 hours ago

Maybe sex will be only for pleasure. That would be the best blessing ever !!! It is the most pleasurable experience there is once the pregnancy fear is out of the way. Speaking from experience only.😉
DY
 +1 / -0
patkim
patkim 18 hours ago

Since learning TTATT I have become a man on a mission to learn everything I can about everything. I've become a man of science in many ways and arming myself for the inevitable day of my resignation. So far I have postponed that.
But the biggest piece of evidence that the WT is selling delusion is the fact that our sun has less than 5 Billion years left before it goes all nova on us. But long before that, say in about just 10 million years the earth will no longer be inhabitable as the atmosphere gets withered away. Carl Sagan famously said that we humans have about 100 years to figure out how to get off this rock. That was 30 years ago.

 +1 / -0
JRK
JRK 18 hours ago

Yes.
JK
 

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Topic Summary
the wt’s teaching that humans will live forever on a paradise earth will necessitate that given that there will be no more death, then immortal humans will have to be relocated to other planets in order to prevent the earth from becoming overpopulated.. so how many habitable, earth-like planets are there?more and more habitable, earth-like planets would have to become available on a continuous, never-ending basis ad infinitum as mankind’s population grows given that there will be no more death.. the longevity/sustainability of life on these planets will be limited by the fact that the sun serving these planets will eventually die:https://shar.es/1cko6n.
http://www.space.com/22437-main-sequence-stars.html#sthash.ejbt1xrz.dpuf.
so immortal humans will have to keep moving from planet to planet.



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Is the WT’s Paradise Earth doctrine a delusion?
by deegee 2 days ago 44 Replies latest 7 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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LongHairGal
LongHairGal 18 hours ago

The Witnesses' "paradise earth" teaching seemed to have too many holes as far as I was concerned.
I must have not really believed it because it didn't stick around in my mind after I "faded" and made peace with the idea of death.
I think it is nothing more than a "hereafter" teaching like Christendom has - only in the Witnesses case the hereafter is literally supposed to be on the earth.
I also was never entirely comfortable with the idea of that supposed final "test" after the thousand years. Sounds like mayhem all over again.
Also, the idea that after the resurrection some "would" and some "would not" would make for a divided society right there...Also, what happens if somebody "who does" wants somebody "who doesn't" (or can't).
Sounds like the makings of a mess to me!
 
steve2
steve2 16 hours ago

For me, the most depressing part of living on Paradise earth was the belief that after the 1,000 year reign of Christ, Satan would be once again let loose into the world once again for yet another test of humans and unknown numbers would fall under his influence and have to be destroyed. What kind of madness is this? Humans exist to pass tests?
I don't know about you guys, but that belief always put a real dampner on any "joy" I would feel in looking forward to life on a transformed planet.
 +1 / -0
JW_Rogue
JW_Rogue 8 hours ago
How many times is Paradise actually mentioned in the bible anyway? It's been shown that the book of revelation could be talking figuratively about a heavenly hope. The other scriptures JWs quote the most are from the book of Psalms. It could easily be argued that those refer to the nation of Israel, not to us thousands of years later. Then really this whole teaching relies on one scripture in the gospels where Jesus tells the criminal being executed "You will be with me in Paradise". If this is the hope of most of mankind then why is it not mentioned else where in the NT?
 
Fisherman
Fisherman 8 hours ago

For me, the most depressing part of living on Paradise earth was the belief that after the 1,000 year reign of Christ, Satan would be once again let loose into the world once again for yet another test of humans and unknown numbers would fall under his influence and have to be destroyed. What kind of madness is this? Humans exist to pass tests?
(-First you got to make it into the 1k as if that wasn't hard enough.)
 I feel the same way but I also feel that some people are just plain mean and selfish and should get what is coming to them.
 
Lieu
Lieu 7 hours ago
Delusional is wanting to hang out with lions; they smell. Some think litter boxes are bad now .... I want to hang out with Noah. The first thing he did after a worldwide destruction of mankind was make some good drink and get naked. Now there's some fun times in paradise.
 

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Topic Summary
the wt’s teaching that humans will live forever on a paradise earth will necessitate that given that there will be no more death, then immortal humans will have to be relocated to other planets in order to prevent the earth from becoming overpopulated.. so how many habitable, earth-like planets are there?more and more habitable, earth-like planets would have to become available on a continuous, never-ending basis ad infinitum as mankind’s population grows given that there will be no more death.. the longevity/sustainability of life on these planets will be limited by the fact that the sun serving these planets will eventually die:https://shar.es/1cko6n.
http://www.space.com/22437-main-sequence-stars.html#sthash.ejbt1xrz.dpuf.
so immortal humans will have to keep moving from planet to planet.



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Astronomers Discover New Planet That Really Makes Earth Look Like Shit
by hardtobeme 8 months ago
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What were Satan and his demons "doing" up in heaven, before being "cast down" in 1914?
by Dunedain 3 months ago
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New NWT deception at Genesis 8:22 to indicate earth remains forever.
by jwfacts 3 months ago
punkofnice
JW terminology
by punkofnice 9 months ago
Jerryh
Romans 6:7
by Jerryh 2 months ago



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2009 Awake Bound Volume Needed!
by Atlantis 2 days ago 4 Replies latest 2 days ago   watchtower bible
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Atlantis
Atlantis 2 days ago

We are in need of a 2009 Awake Bound Volume to complete the magazine project for avoidjw. I have been able to scan 2 issues which are October and December, but we are in need of the other 10 issues for that year. Or, if someone has some PDFs of the Awake's for that year we can bundle them together and send them over to avoidjw.



If someone has a 2009 Awake Bound Volume they could let me borrow so I could scan those other 10 issues it would be greatly appreciated. I have searched high and low and all over the net for one and nothing has turned up.
I will pay for all shipping so there is no cost to the owner. Please send me a pm if you can assist.
Atlantis!
.
 
Village Idiot
Village Idiot 2 days ago
Could you use a dvd version of the Watchtower library?
 
Atlantis
Atlantis 2 days ago

Village Idiot:
No, I am afraid not. We are wanting to scan the actual volumes or magazines so that we can check for changes the Watchtower has made from the actual magazines to the WT Library CD.
Appreciate your interest though!
Atlantis!
 
Tenacious
Tenacious 2 days ago
Don't have it, sorry Atlantis.

 
Atlantis
Atlantis 2 days ago

That's ok Tenacious, hopefully we will be able to pull several resources together and finally complete the project. At least you showed concern.
.
Many thanks!
.
Atlantis!
 

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1989 Live Forever Book-PDF!
by Atlantis 3 days ago 6 Replies latest 2 days ago   watchtower bible
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Atlantis
Atlantis 3 days ago

Just in case anyone else wants the book.
1989 You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth.
.
http://we.tl/ADCsYH7R2v
.
.
Atlantis!
 +1 / -0
jwleaks
jwleaks 2 days ago

Thanks Atlantis.



 
Magnum
Magnum 2 days ago
I have the '82 edition and have been wanting this one. Just downloaded. Thanks a whole bunch!
 
Beth Sarim
Beth Sarim 2 days ago
I never knew they had a 'revised' one come out.
 
Atlantis
Atlantis 2 days ago

Magnum:
Did you get that email from Petra giving you the links for several Archives so that you won't need to purchase a USB? This way everything is free and you don't have to buy a thing. Just sit and download all day and night.
If not, I'll ask her to send them to you again.
Atlantis!
 
Gorbatchov
Gorbatchov 2 days ago
They promissed us a paradise that never came. This book was a good marketing choice after the 1975 debacle. So they presented us this candy box. And now it is even not in jw library anymore.
 
Atlantis
Atlantis 2 days ago

I know Gorby, the book represents another lie compiled with all the other lies and false promises.
Atlantis
 

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Marcial
2
Recherche documents en langue française French language materials research
by Marcial in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 2 days ago
french language materials researchbonjour à tous,je cherche des volumes watchtower wayback en langue française wake up (awake français 1955 et 1956) des années 1955 et 1956 - peut-être les volumes numérisés en format pdf serait la bienvenue finalement, les publications françaises dans les années avant 1950 - consolation et golden age - même watchtower 1918 à 1.948 en français.

merci beaucoup pour votre aide et votre participation à cette collection unique de documents pour les groupes francophones.marcialbonjour à tous,je recherche verser watchtower wayback les volumes en langue française de réveillez vous (awake français 1955 et 1956) des années 1955 et 1956 - les volumes eventuellement scannés en format pdf seraient les bienvenus eventuellement les publications en français des années avant 1950 - age consolation et d'or - idem tour de garde de 1918 à 1948 en français.

merci beaucoup de votre aide et la participation de votre collection à this de documents uniques verser les groupes francophones.

dropoffyourkeylee
wannaexit
2 days ago
oppostate
63
Heil Trump. Sieg Heil.
by oppostate in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 2 days ago
crowd looking like they're doing the heil hitler salute to trump when he asks for a pledge and swear their support while calling for broadening torture laws.

trump asks backers to swear their support, vows to broaden torture laws.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/05/politics/donald-trump-florida-pledge-torture/.

sammielee24
littlerockguy
Village Idiot
10 hours ago
Labate
12
Geoffrey Jackson quote
by Labate in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 2 days ago
many posters quote geoffrey jackson as saying " it would be presumptuous" to say that the gb is jehovah's sole spokesperson on earth.. what he actually said was that "it would seem to be quite presumptuous".

this is actually very clever, as adding "seem" to the sentence leaves the possibility that it isn't presumptuous to call themselves "jehovah's sole channel".

(at least in their eyes).

Gilbeath Haaraloth
DATA-DOG
eyeuse2badub
2 days ago
olongapo joe
3
been their, done that
by olongapo joe in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Scandals & Coverups
 2 days ago
ok, i was never baptized, raised jw from one yr old till 15 yr old, never really believed, joined u.s. navy at 20 yr old.

i used to think(still do) how much the jw organization was like the military!

to advance, you have to hit certain marks, ( for the military you need high marks in physical fitness) (( could that be field service for jw's?

FayeDunaway
LisaRose
Beth Sarim
2 days ago
deegee
44
Is the WT’s Paradise Earth doctrine a delusion?
by deegee in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 2 days ago
the wt’s teaching that humans will live forever on a paradise earth will necessitate that given that there will be no more death, then immortal humans will have to be relocated to other planets in order to prevent the earth from becoming overpopulated.. so how many habitable, earth-like planets are there?more and more habitable, earth-like planets would have to become available on a continuous, never-ending basis ad infinitum as mankind’s population grows given that there will be no more death.. the longevity/sustainability of life on these planets will be limited by the fact that the sun serving these planets will eventually die:https://shar.es/1cko6n.

http://www.space.com/22437-main-sequence-stars.html#sthash.ejbt1xrz.dpuf.

so immortal humans will have to keep moving from planet to planet.

JW_Rogue
Fisherman
Lieu
7 hours ago
Doug Mason
3
Disconfirmed expectations
by Doug Mason in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 2 days ago
the person may have prepared himself psychologically for an event that never eventuates, and, worse still, may have even made public his predictions about the event.

what happens when an important prophecy fails and dissonance is aroused between what was predicted and what actually occurred is described in the classic field study carried out by festinger, riecken and schachter (1956).

in the mid-1950s mrs marion keech, a suburban housewife, began to receive messages from outer space.

Phizzy
Witness 007
Half banana
13 hours ago
Atlantis
4
2009 Awake Bound Volume Needed!
by Atlantis in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 2 days ago
we are in need of a 2009 awake bound volume to complete the magazine project for avoidjw.

i have been able to scan 2 issues which are october and december, but we are in need of the other 10 issues for that year.

or, if someone has some pdfs of the awake's for that year we can bundle them together and send them over to avoidjw.. .

Atlantis
Tenacious
Atlantis
2 days ago
Sabin
2
Actions speak louder than words
by Sabin in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 2 days ago
gday to you all.

i have had a thought i would like to share with you.

i cannot remember who it was, but i believe it has been mentioned (maybe paul grundy) that if you wish to null & void your baptism because you were so young when it took place that the wtbts will not allow it if you have been participating in the believes & practises of the religion when you were older & able to make a decision of your own free will.

TTWSYF
zophar
2 days ago
sparrowdown
22
Faith and Lies.
by sparrowdown in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 3 days ago
if you were hooked up to a polygraph machine when you were still an asleep, kool-aid drinking dub and asked if you agree 100% with every single wt teaching (asked as individual questions and collectively), would you have "passed" with no signs of deception?.

i know, i definitely would not have "passed" such an interegation.

i would have tripped up on questions about blood, dfing and non jws being marked for destruction just to name a few.

sparrowdown
stuckinarut2
OUTLAW
a day ago
Atlantis
6
1989 Live Forever Book-PDF!
by Atlantis in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 3 days ago
just in case anyone else wants the book.. 1989 you can live forever in paradise on earth.. .. http://we.tl/adcsyh7r2v.

.. .. atlantis!.

Atlantis
Gorbatchov
Atlantis
2 days ago
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