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My jw friend keeps preaching to me in e-mails
by Queenme 7 hours ago 8 Replies latest 4 hours ago   jw friends
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Queenme
Queenme 7 hours ago

Dear Friends This is my first time posting. I am not a jw and have never been one but I have a friend who married a jw and converted. In spite of the bunk barometer going off in my brain over the years and never responding to her efforts to convert me, she just cannot stop preaching. We now live in different parts of the world so it's done via e-mail. I have tried to let her know her efforts are futile but she keeps plugging away and it annoys me intensely.
A little background detail - we have been friends since we were 8 years old and have many memories in common before marriage, careers, different cities and countries, etc. As she's the one that keeps in touch, I keep trying to find the real person behind the mask and weaken every time I've avoided writing, been sarcastic or haven't replied and then write volumes about my very different life style. She replies with all sorts of wow and wonderful before the paragraphs of jw stuff.
I hope this community can help me to suggest a suitably friendly but crushing written response to stop her writing any more unwanted jw nonsense. I realise her whole life is jw related but that is not my problem.
I read with interest and learn from this forum. Thank you.
 +7 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 7 hours ago

Send her links to this board and others and ask her to first check those out prior to continuing the JW recruiting efforts.
DY
 +4 / -0
Hadriel
Hadriel 6 hours ago

Tell her you'd like to study if she can answer a few things that are troubling you. Tell her that the reason you've not engage much with her is that these things are tough to understand.
1. JW's taught for years that the United Nations was the scarlet colored wild beast mentioned in Revelation. Yet for 10 years they were a member of said organization. Only when a news story was uncovered did they retract from their membership.
2. JW's teach that they are the only true religion and God's only channel, yet Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson at the Australian Royal Commission investigating Jehovah's Witnesses and their 1000 plus child rape cases never reported, said that witnesses were not God's only channel.
3. JW's teach that the eating of blood is improper, I would agree in speaking of eating animals they should absolutely be bled properly however when incorporating life saving blood transfusions in this ban seems to put this law above the sanctity of life. Additionally in Leviticus 17:15,16 the penalty for eating blood was to essentially bathe and be unclean until the end of the day yet if a witness willfully takes blood to save their lives they're disfellowshipped. How is this consistent with the punishment laid out by God?
4. JW's have taught that they were chosen in 1919 by Jesus as stewards for his people. Yet most of the teachings at the time of choosing have been abandoned and worse yet been proven blatantly false. For example in the Finished Mystery it was taught that the last days started in 1799 NOT 1914, That the Alpha and the Omega was Jesus. that the one riding the white horse was the Pope, that the Leviathan was the locomotive and many many other things that have been completely abandoned. Not to mention would be likely considered apostasy today. Just because it is old doesn't mean it is invalid for if it is than the 2600 old bible should be considered invalid as well.
5. JW's teach that only they will survive. God will essentially kill 7 billion plus and only save Jehovah's Witnesses. This despite the fact that there are thousands of religions, 100's of bible translations and it is the luck of the draw if a person chooses the correct one. If God gives us freewill then the person must choose among millions of combinations hoping they get it right or they are destined to die.
In the above questions they are impossible to answer. Many of these were posed to me by a study I had no way of answering them which caused me to come to my senses. However there is no guarantee as some are actually attracted to the idea of the truth rather than the actual truth.
All the best...
 +5 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 6 hours ago

Why don't you be direct and say that her constant preaching is really annoying you in spite of you respecting her beliefs, suggesting to respect your non beliefs.
There is a world for both personal ideologies to exist without the anguish or prejudice.

 +1 / -0
Hadriel
Hadriel 6 hours ago

@Finkelstein although I totally agree with you unfortunately dealing with JW's is a one way conversation. They're allowed to preach to you but you not them.
So if you want to maintain the relationship the best way I've found is to at a minimum take them down a notch with some facts that can't be disputed. At least then they can justify why you feel as you do in their own minds. If you're really fortunately they'll be shaken to reality but don't hold your breath.
 +2 / -1
BluesBrother
BluesBrother 6 hours ago

Well...she can count her time spent preaching to you on the 'net. It is all part of her "Record of faithful service" and is reported monthly as is time spent standing next to a trolley cart or door knocking. If she sends unsolicited literature in an attachment that is a "placement" and further credit . So, it is in her best interests to keep going.
I like Hadriel's questions actually, that might put her off , but will probably kill the friendship
 +2 / -0
tornapart
tornapart 4 hours ago
Give her a link to jwfacts.com :smile:
 +1 / -0
NVR2L8
NVR2L8 4 hours ago

Preaching to you is her only way to stay in touch because JWs usually do not entertain friendships with "wordly" people. You can be friends but only on her terms...
 +2 / -0
sowhatnow
sowhatnow 4 hours ago

tell her the bible says not to
cast pearls before a swine, lol
i do believe that years ago the counsel at meetings was to not continue to preach to persons who are not responding to that message, for it is a waste of time . then of course it changed.

my own mom cant stop dragging me into a conversation every time i see her.[ though i was a jw slave for 30 years...... but she knows by now im a lost cause but she will not give up because in her mind im as good as dead if i dont turn around...]

and so your friend now is using the advice later given, keep trying.

that if they keep dropping little tidbits of info, that some day, something might spark your interest... and then all the work will have been worth it. because you cant give up on people.
only people who don't agree after they do agree.... change their minds... whatever.

lol contradictory? um yea..

 

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I would rather be in the JW cult than the ex-jw cult
by questioningmyfaith 13 hours ago 45 Replies latest an hour ago   jw friends
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questioningmyfaith
questioningmyfaith 13 hours ago

I have posted one other time on this website. Just for the mere fact that I wasn't anger and bitter and ready to declare the GB the sociopathic criminals that so many here ascribe to, my initial question digressed to bickering over ad hominem attacks against the GB and not my beliefs that I'm questioning. Some did give me some help on my questions. If you notice though, I get a lot of down votes. Mainly because I am just not bitter or angry against the WT. I pretty much do not believe in god. This gives me a peace of mind concerning the false things I have been taught since I was a boy. I sometimes wish that I wasn't raised a witness but I know that I learned a number of great lessons as one. And maybe witnesses are a cult by definition. But really, ALL religions are cults. Jesus was a cult leader. IMO, ex-jw's have become their own cult. You all have THE TRUTH.... about the truth. If anyone came on here and dissents then they are obliterated by the community. My first post simply asked that the acrimony be left out, I just wanted facts, and that was enough to set off a firestorm on my thread. My favorite is the people who post quotes like oneeyedjoe from Socrates The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Actually, Socrates never even said that.
I also have found one poster on here that I know. And reading their posts *gasp* they lie a lot! Now, I am not making a blanket statement that all ex-jws are liars. But I am pretty damn skeptical when I read stories that I'll never be able to corroborate. I am happy and at peace with my JW past. I am still attempting to find a general belief in god, but I doubt I'll come to that conclusion. But I have come to this one, I am not interested this ex-jw cult. Having people to get your back when you're down is a good thing but commiserating on end over pedantic dribble is a waste of time. I am going to use the extra time I have from not being a witness learning a language or maybe even just watching tv. Because I know this endless cycle of trying to preach to the choir is a waste of time.
Sorry if my post is offensive. I honestly just don't like it here
 +14 / -6
bohm
bohm 13 hours ago

Hello and welcome. You seem very smart and I agree with everything you write but I disagree that we ex-jw's are a cult, we are simply a humble organization who works for the betterment of humanity. You seem very stressed. As a member of the ex-jw community I would like to say we offer free anti-stress training. Please pay-pal me 50$ to get free material on our free ex-jw anti-stress courses.
Can I get your contact information we will not contact you?
 +14 / -0
WingCommander
WingCommander 13 hours ago

Tell ya what, Pal: You like the JW cult so much? You think their behinds smell like roses after they crap Tiffany cuff-links? Well then, you can have it! In fact, you can take it and SHOVE IT!
I was never so happier in my life, than when I realized what for a mind-job CULT I had been raised in, and that I was finally free from these abusive, manipulative, uncaring - psychos! Good Riddance.

 +7 / -3
dubstepped
dubstepped 13 hours ago
You have to weed through a tremendous amount of attitude on here. If you care to do so you can find interesting points to consider that will be presented as fervently as "the truth" as what we were taught as JWs. Don't you dare disagree because you'll be buried under attitude or word vomit. With that said, this place helps teach me just to move on and ignore those that insist on their version of life and their interpretation of evidence that currently exists. I like to come for the current JW events and personal experiences, many that I realize are just as embellished as the parts on the conventions were. But that's people. As you move away from a cult it is hard to deal with lots of differences because they never existed before in your life.
 +7 / -0
jookbeard
jookbeard 13 hours ago
I seem to be hearing this term "exjw cult" or a particular exjw has created a cult of exjw's which really is nonsense, there are vast subgroups where people are welcome to believe what they want, weather they be atheist, christian, groups for gay exjw's bible student groups and they are free to support whatever group they like, there is no "membership" of any of these groups, I would like to know about all these so called lies though, a world wide child abuse cover up policy?, ,membership of the UN?, holding investment stock in companies what produce military hardware? former GB members who were predatory abusing homosexuals? please respond.
 +5 / -0
Pistoff
Pistoff 13 hours ago

Questioningmyfaith:
Have you been in a mind controlled group so long you can't see a difference between the KH and this forum?

Here you can express your opinion, we can agree or disagree, and move on.
Try that in a kingdom hall, or with family or friends, and see what happens.
Here are markers for a cult: (from CARM; note that I am not in any religion or religious group, I just think this is a pretty good list)
1.Submission:
1.Complete, almost unquestioned trust in the leadership.
2.Leaders are often seen as prophets, apostles, or special individuals with unusual connections to God. This helps a person give themselves over psychologically to trusting someone else for their spiritual welfare.
3.Increased submission to the leadership is rewarded with additional responsibilities and/or roles, and/or praises, increasing the importance of the person within the group.
2.Exclusivity
1.Their group is the only true religious system, or one of the few true remnants of God's people.
3.Persecution complex
1.Us against them mentality. Therefore, when someone (inside or outside of the group) corrects the group in doctrine and/or behavior, it is interpreted as persecution, which then is interpreted as validation.
4.Control
1.Control of members' actions and thinking through repeated indoctrination and/or threats of loss of salvation, or a place to live, or receiving curses from God, etc.
5.Isolation
1.Minimizing contact of church members with those outside the group. This facilitates a further control over the thinking and practices of the members by the leadership.
6.Love Bombing
1.Showing great attention and love to a person in the group by others in the group, to help transfer emotional dependence to the group.
7.Special Knowledge
1.Instructions and/or knowledge are sometimes said to be received by a leader(s) from God. This leader then informs the members.
2.The Special Knowledge can be received through visions, dreams, or new interpretations of sacred scriptures such as the Bible.
8.Indoctrination
1.The teachings of the group are repeatedly drilled into the members, but the indoctrination usually occurs around Special Knowledge.
9.Salvation
1.Salvation from the judgment of God is maintained through association and/or submission with the group, its authority, and/or its Special Knowledge.
10.Group Think
1.The group's coherence is maintained by the observance to policies handed down from those in authority.
2.There is an internal enforcement of policies by members who reward "proper" behavior, and those who perform properly are rewarded with further inclusion and acceptance by the group.
11.Cognitive Dissonance
1.Avoidance of critical thinking and/or maintaining logically impossible beliefs and/or beliefs that are inconsistent with other beliefs held by the group.
2.Avoidance of and/or denial of any facts that might contradict the group's belief system.
12.Shunning
1.Those who do not keep in step with group policies are shunned and/or expelled.
13.Gender Roles
1.Control of gender roles and definitions.
2.Severe control of gender roles sometimes leads to sexual exploitation.
14.Appearance Standards
1.Often a common appearance is required and maintained. For instance, women might wear prairie dresses, and/or their hair in buns, and/or no makeup, and/or the men might all wear white short-sleeved shirts, and/or without beards, or all wear beards

Or this list, from the Atlantic:

1. Opposing critical thinking
2. Isolating members and penalizing them for leaving
3. Emphasizing special doctrines outside scripture
4. Seeking inappropriate loyalty to their leaders
5. Dishonoring the family unit
6. Crossing Biblical boundaries of behavior (versus sexual purity and personal ownership)
7. Separation from the Church
None of those traits are found here; if someone doesn't agree, they will say so.
If you want to stay, you can stay.
The forum does have rules, like any forum.
Do I agree with everyone here? No, and sometimes I (and others) have clashed with Simon, who owns the forum.
But this is no cult, just a place where BS arguments are going to get called out.

 +13 / -0
TTWSYF
TTWSYF 13 hours ago

So is this something that the WTS teaches now? That they're the best cult around? A better cult than the educated TTATT cult?
Whatever...Good luck
 +2 / -0
LoveUniHateExams
LoveUniHateExams 12 hours ago

Just for the mere fact that I wasn't anger and bitter and ready to declare the GB the sociopathic criminals that so many here ascribe to - but the GB has some very serious questions that they must answer in court(s) of law. I'm thinking of deaths of minors from refusal of blood, the paedophile 'issue' ...
Not everybody here at JWN is 'bitter'. In fact, most are victims of WT policy.
Here's the good thing: the WT organisation will have to answer for its misdeeds in courts of law, one way or the other, in the end.
If you don't like this, if this ruffles your feathers and hurts your precious feelings, then you can ...
Don't let the door hit you on the way out ...
 
Heartsafire
Heartsafire 12 hours ago

Questioning,
Sorry to hear you're feeling down about the site. There are days when I get the dreaded down votes too. I'm pretty sure everyone has. When I browse the website I try to take the helpful stuff and scrap the rest. This is the Internet after all, and it is full of all types.
 +1 / -0
breakfast of champions
breakfast of champions 12 hours ago

Has someone been forcing people to join this forum and hold them here against their will lately?
Strange.
 +14 / -0

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I would rather be in the JW cult than the ex-jw cult
by questioningmyfaith 13 hours ago 45 Replies latest 2 hours ago   jw friends
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freemindfade
freemindfade 12 hours ago

You can only play the hand you were dealt. I try not to have regrets about my mom raising me in the religion. There are a lot of good people in it that I still call friends. And definitely some good things can come from a systematic life with boundaries. It's best not to be bitter, I try to only look back to see how far I have come.
And when it comes to labeling EXJW that label can mean anything, really the only thing all these people have in common is they were once JW, beyond that there are all types. You say exjw cult? Well honestly I don't think there could ever be that much unity in this community. And I am not saying that as good or bad, just the way it is. Once people leave they go a million different directions. I am forever fascinated by this "thing" that had so much influence in my life, how it worked, what's happening to it and so on. I had my bitter moments and lived through them.
For the record any group with as much influence as watchtower is not good. The Jones town crew wasn't drinking Koolaid all along, and radical Islamists were at one time not so radical.
Religion is a social technology of bygone era, it just happens to still work.
f-ck "god" and f-ck religion. Time to evolve.
 +4 / -0
OnTheWayOut
OnTheWayOut 12 hours ago

If I read your post right, questioningmyfaith, you have (or will have) reached a point where you will just go do your own thing. Instead of learning the religion or learning what's wrong with the religion, you will learn a language (and/or other things).
That's great. The most personally successful former JW's are not here. They are not at meetups. They are not protesting outside of Kingdom Halls, nor are they sitting through meetings inside the Kingdom Hall. They are living their lives, wherever that may take them.
Good luck.
 +10 / -0
punkofnice
punkofnice 12 hours ago
Each to their own. In my garden I grow weeds. I respect the views of others providing they hurt no one.
 +3 / -0
JWdaughter
JWdaughter 11 hours ago

Go watch tv. I see your point, even if I disagree in some ways. I think learning another language is a great idea! I'm learning Urdu, Arabic and Spanish. Trying to learn Arabic, the other two are spoken a lot around me so there is an osmosis effect.
Salaam
 
Giordano
Giordano 11 hours ago

Ex JW Cults. Hummmm. I don't throw the Cult bomb at the WTBTS. To my way of thinking they are a high control religion founded on 19th century nonsense. Sort of like the Mormons.
Both groups make up shit and present their teachings as if they come from a higher authority.
I also think that this place can be a shock to a number of new arrivals. Especially people who have been complacent about the evil that is a part of the JW construct.
Be it the pedophile issue...... shunning until death, reckless rules about medical treatments, anti higher education. Anti gay. The propensity to jump on their followers back and weigh them down with ridiculous rules and demands or to slip between their legs and dictate what a married couple can do or not do in the marriage bed.
When my wife and I exited the JW's decades ago I held no bitterness.
After Jonestown my attitude changed about a religion like the JW's when I recognized how dangerous it was to embrace teachings that called for blind obedience......... teachings that called on a believing parent to refuse having their child receive a life saving blood transfusion. Who were willing to allow them to die and keep the favor of their fellow believers. A religion like the JW's expects their followers to go about their business with a suicide note in one's pocket that spelled out NO Blood.
The criticism you experienced in your first post was more about staking out a position that was inconsistent with the reality of what it meant to be a believing and then exiting ex-JW. You still want to label us as an Ex-JW Cult.
There are many stories to tell about life as a JW very little has to be made up. But if this place is more like a village with everyone having shared experiences and a common language along with the village one also get's the occasional village idiot. Best to just ignore them. There are people I avoid debating or befriending though on rare occasion I will take exception with a point of view but usually I note how much growth is involved in becoming surer about what not to believe.
The opposite has been true for all of us or as Eric Hoffer said “It is startling to realize how much unbelief is necessary to make belief possible.” As a believing JW.







 +2 / -0
Diogenesister
Diogenesister 11 hours ago

I agree with OTWO. It seems you have reached a place where you can move on...that's great!
But really..without exjws posting fantastic, informative stuff about the watchtower and its history, how many of us would have learnt the ttatt on our own??I for one admit I wouldn't have been smart enough to work it all out.
 +6 / -0
Diogenesister
Diogenesister 11 hours ago

Giordano After Jonestown my attitude changed about a religion like the JW's when I recognized how dangerous it was to embrace teachings that called for blind obedience......... teachings that called on a believing parent to refuse having their child receive a life saving blood transfusion. Who were willing to allow them to die and keep the favor of their fellow believers. A religion like the JW's expects their followers to go about their business with a suicide note in one's pocket that spelled out NO Blood.
Listening to the Jones town recordings terrifies me...you are so right. For me, I always think when I hear it there but for the grace of JW facts and JW.net go I....
 +2 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 11 hours ago
So on one side of the coin your like hey it's no big deal and on the other side your like man you guys suck. Really your bitching about us but give a mudering cult a free pass, WTF is wrong with you?
 
RubaDub
RubaDub 11 hours ago

questioning my faith ...
Welcome.
In the event that we meet and shake hands, may we ask which hand you use for personal hygiene cleaning ???
Rub a Dub
 
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 11 hours ago

Describing ex-jws has being in a cult itself is nonsensical for a descriptive point of view.
People who have been involved in the JW religion come out with varying perspectives on religious faith and adherence from their experience within this religion. Criticism are free flowing and unregulated by individuals , some are wrong and some are right but they are nevertheless openly discussed.

Sure there are some who are vindictive upon the organization for their own various reasons and that's perhaps why this religion looses so many adherents because its just too intervening into people's lives , such as telling its members to abandon their own family for an example.
There are certainly many egregiously harmful things this cult does to people besides the corruptly devised doctrines that were created toward the proliferation of distributing its publications.
In other words its an organization that creates its own vindictiveness and accusations of foul play and corruption. 

 +4 / -0

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Topic Summary
i have posted one other time on this website.
just for the mere fact that i wasn't anger and bitter and ready to declare the gb the sociopathic criminals that so many here ascribe to, my initial question digressed to bickering over ad hominem attacks against the gb and not my beliefs that i'm questioning.
some did give me some help on my questions.



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I would rather be in the JW cult than the ex-jw cult
by questioningmyfaith 14 hours ago 45 Replies latest 2 hours ago   jw friends
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Simon
Simon 11 hours ago

Sorry if my post is offensive. I honestly just don't like it here
I don't like Yahoo's home page. The simple trick I found was to not go to it. Ta-da !!
The difference between us an the WTS is that we won't harass you for leaving or tell anyone else they shouldn't talk to you. Enjoy wherever you go.
 +11 / -0
Wasanelder Once
Wasanelder Once 11 hours ago
I like turtles.

 +3 / -0
freemindfade
freemindfade 11 hours ago

I hate it here, let me continuously stop by to say why



 +6 / -0
Hadriel
Hadriel 10 hours ago

Well said @Simon
Perfect @freemindfade
My experience here has been nothing but supportive and positive. I've gone in spurts and am trying to find my stride in life.
In particular I'm not the needy type. Like not at all. Self made type that just plugs along but I've needed help. Really for the first time. Left home at very very early age never looked back. First home just couple into my 20's the whole nine.
The point is even as confident as I generally am I'm not embarrassed to say I'd been screwed without help of a handful of genuine folks I've met.
Yes some are very angry but can you blame them. Usually they were dealt with abusively. In my case it was on my own terms. I've noticed that it can really depend on how you've come out.
Regardless at least in my mind the worst thing you can do is go around making PSA's like this. If you're not interested and find no value....move along.
 +3 / -0
MarkofCane
MarkofCane 10 hours ago

Every religion is a cult, Jesus was ( to some as they would believe, still is) the leader of the largest cult the world has ever seen. Muhammad more successful. When you have these organizations use malicious lies to control and subjugate there adherents, you then must fight fire with fire. You see strong words used to describe what people have gone through and you perhaps confuse that with a ttatt hate cult. But you are wrong, as extreme as the witness are we have no choice but to, say it like it is.
Look at what extreme cults are capable of, Belgium terrorist attacks an extreme veneration of an ideology. You think the witness aren't capable of such atrocities? Look at the blood mandate how many do you presume die each year? How about the Malawi registration cards little rule? Might not seem as extreme as a religious bomber ready to kill and die for his belief, but non the less people die because of a mandate demanded buy a cult. I think your rant is directed at the wrong group. Good luck to you Sir
 +2 / -0
Pete Zahut
Pete Zahut 10 hours ago

 I pretty much do not believe in god. This gives me a peace of mind concerning the false things I have been taught since I was a boy. I sometimes wish that I wasn't raised a witness but I know that I learned a number of great lessons as one.
I understand what your are saying and I have identified quite a few positive aspects of having grown up as a JW myself. Having said that, I also realize that even children who came from abusive homes or who lived during extremely difficult times in history, are able to glean fond memories and positive aspects of their childhoods. However fond memories, plentiful social contacts and positive experiences, do not mean a religion is teaching the truth.
I understand your feelings about the sometimes negative tone of some of the discussions here. I have felt this way at times but I remind myself that having grown up in the JW environment where people weren't free to express their true feelings about the world around them, may have left me a bit more sensitive than I need to be and it may have made myself and others former JW's here a bit unskilled at expressing ourselves in an appropriate manner, at times. For many of us here, this is the first time we have been part of a discussion group and we are in the process of learning how to share in an online discussion and how to sand the rough corners off the words that we'd otherwise get away with using in person because our tone of voice and facial expressions help convey our intent.
For me there is always something interesting to learn here but one does have to learn how to filter things out, learn not to take things personally and or skip over topics or posts that appear to be negative just for the sake of being negative. I also know that if one is on the lookout for offenses committed by others (very popular nowadays) they are sure to find them. That's why when navigating our way through the rough aspects of life, It's often better to put on a pair of slippers, rather than to try and carpet the whole world.
 +4 / -0
LisaRose
LisaRose 10 hours ago

There is no ex JW cult. This is just a discussion board of mostly ex and some current JWs. As with any board on the internet there are some great people and some not so great people, honest people and not so honest people. As with any internet group you should not believe everything you read, people can and do lie. There are some people that have posted here for many years that are open and honest and I trust them to a certain extent, but all others I take with a grain of salt. There are people that come here and tell stories that don't ring true, and those people I avoid. Usually they leave when they realise people don't fall for their b.s.
If you like the JWs and want to stay then no one is stopping you, but don't pretend you are choosing between two cults, that is absurd. Do yourself a favor and educate yourself on what a cult is and how they work. As a start you should check out howcultswork.com.
Cults have several methods they use to maintain control, such as claiming to be the sole source of truth. The Governing Body claims that, ex JWs do not. Cults do not allow you to disagree with leadership, if you are a JW you know you are not allowed to disagree with the Governing Body or even the elders. Ex JWs say what they want, here or anywhere else. Cults tell you who you should associate with, they control how you spend your time. As a JW you are discouraged from associating with those "in the world" and forbidden to talk to disfellowship persons, you have to attend meetings and engage in the preaching work. Nobody tells ex JWs who to associate with, and we don't fill out time sheets or have meetings to attend.
After learning about cults and how they manipulate people I could never go back to the Jehovah's Witnesses. It would be too hard to sit through a meeting knowing how they are manipulating people. I am 100% happier now than when I was a JW, I would never go back to a life filled with fear, obligation and guilt.
Lisa 🌹
.
 +3 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon 10 hours ago

I received a picture of my long lost daughter and filmily yesterday, my sister who is not a JW received the
picture and a card wishing her well on her recent surgery. My sister told me she sent the picture to me
so I can see my grand daughters. If they passed me on the street I would have no idea who they were.
It's a ugly religion, full of hate all about control. If they stop the shunning today my daughter would
call me tonight.
My wife ask me while I was looking at the photo how do I feel? It's been so long since I have seen her
or talk to her, I hope she is happy.
How can any reasonable person especially after your eyes have been opened to the ugliness of that
organization decide to go back.
 +8 / -0
Vidiot
Vidiot 10 hours ago


Simon - "The difference between us an the WTS is that we won't harass you for leaving or tell anyone else they shouldn't talk to you...."
You can even change your mind and come back without having to be "reinstated".
(Unless you forgot your password :wink:)
 +4 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 10 hours ago

If open unregretted inquiry upon knowledge and information is a cult, please let me in .
 +3 / -0

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Topic Summary
i have posted one other time on this website.
just for the mere fact that i wasn't anger and bitter and ready to declare the gb the sociopathic criminals that so many here ascribe to, my initial question digressed to bickering over ad hominem attacks against the gb and not my beliefs that i'm questioning.
some did give me some help on my questions.



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I would rather be in the JW cult than the ex-jw cult
by questioningmyfaith 14 hours ago 45 Replies latest 2 hours ago   jw friends
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Vidiot
Vidiot 10 hours ago


Giordano - "I don't throw the Cult bomb at the WTBTS. To my way of thinking they are a high control religion founded on 19th century nonsense. Sort of like the Mormons. Both groups make up shit and present their teachings as if they come from a higher authority..."
That's actually how most people define cults, these days. :smirk:
x
That being said, I tend to agree.
I prefer the term "authoritarian high control group". A bit wordy, but more precise, IMO.
In fact, break each (word) component down to their individual definitions, and I think even a staunch dyed-in-the-wool WT loyalist would be hard-pressed to deny the label.
(And then he'd just say that that's the way it's supposed to be. )
 +1 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 10 hours ago


I would rather be in the JW cult than the ex-jw cult
...............Image result for well good for you
 +6 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 9 hours ago

You have to weed through a tremendous amount of attitude on here.
There are many people here who have had their lives seriously disrupted or even damaged by the WT Cult. Kicked to the curb. Their friends &/or family ripped away from them. Their lives wasted pursuing a fantasy.
Yes, they are angry and I think they have the right to be so. I was extremely angry. Now I'm just very angry. Slow progress. Surely someone, somewhere at "the top" knows this is all bullshit yet they continue their charade for greedy, selfish reasons while continuing to harm another (overlapping) generation of innocent victims.
Doc
[Edited to add: There are a couple comments above suggesting the "cult" word not be used in reference to JWs. I would have agreed until after reading "Combatting Cult Mind Control" by Steven Hassan. It absolutely cannot be coincidence that the JW religion fits the definition so perfectly. They are the "poster child" for a cult!]

 +6 / -0
Miss Behaving
Miss Behaving 9 hours ago

It's shocking when you find out that your entire mental/spiritual world is fabricated. When you discover that the friends and family whose opinions you've respected for years, are actually the victims of a mind control cult. After something like that it's understandable to become a little paranoid, and see 'cult' in everything. Not much of a stretch, especially when we've been taught that everyone outside the org is Satan controlled.
When I was leaving, I caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror, one of those glimpses where you see what you actually are. I saw someone so arrogant, so self-righteous, so ready to judge and condemn everyone else. I didn't like it, but I looked around and saw that this belief system makes people become that.
Reading your post, it reminds me of what I saw in myself. There is no one right and proper way to be. There's more than one right answer. There aren't 'evil-doers' here, just some angry hurting people, people angry because they are hurting.
Anyways, that's my 2 cents.
 +1 / -0
John Free
John Free 8 hours ago
I'm also learning a new language and have traveled more and taken up hiking since leaving the JW cult. Its good to fill your time with happiness and make the most out of life. If this place doesn't appeal to you its probably better to leave, you will not be pressured to stay on this forum. Wishing you the very best.
 +1 / -0
redvip2000
redvip2000 8 hours ago

Just for the mere fact that I wasn't anger and bitter and ready to declare the GB the sociopathic criminals that so many here ascribe to, my initial question digressed to bickering over ad hominem attacks against the GB and not my beliefs that I'm questioning.
So what? Isn't it silly that you giving this forum more importance that what it deserves? This is just an extract of society, you'll find people who are smart, and others who are dumb; some that agree with you, and others who think you are a tool; you know..... just like in real life!
Instead of walking home with your ball and saying you don't want to play anymore, why not be at peace with the fact that you don't get to have your ego stroked every minute of the day? If you go to the supermarket, and happen to talk to someone who disagrees with you, you'll stop going too? If you want conformity, then I know a religion that will suit you well..

 +3 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 8 hours ago

Relax. This is a nice forum for opinion and venting. Nothing else. All kinds here. Take a deep breath, then exhale.
Feel better now.
DY🌞
 +2 / -0
talesin
talesin 8 hours ago
This OP reminds me of the guys who commit lesser crimes in the fall, so they can spend winter in the joint, and avoid the harsh weather. In many ways, you appear to have a prison mentality.
 +2 / -0
wannaexit
wannaexit 8 hours ago
I for one like this board. I read and take what I want from it. No one is making you stay. You are free to do as you choose. It's a big world out there.

 +1 / -0
undercover
undercover 8 hours ago




 +5 / -0

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Topic Summary
i have posted one other time on this website.
just for the mere fact that i wasn't anger and bitter and ready to declare the gb the sociopathic criminals that so many here ascribe to, my initial question digressed to bickering over ad hominem attacks against the gb and not my beliefs that i'm questioning.
some did give me some help on my questions.



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Leaving the JWs
by Hurting 19 days ago
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by stephanie61092 2 months ago
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Chronic relapse - what do I do?
by wayoutthere 18 days ago
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How Did My Book Come About?
by new boy 2 months ago



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I would rather be in the JW cult than the ex-jw cult
by questioningmyfaith 14 hours ago 45 Replies latest 2 hours ago   jw friends
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sparrowdown
sparrowdown 4 hours ago

Gee thanks, yeah, now you mention it, I spose we are a rag-tag bunch of WT misfits and escapees here.
Funny that, it being an apostate website and all.
 +2 / -0
mrquik
mrquik 2 hours ago
We're a cult now? Do we get cookies? How about Kool Aid? Just the fact that we disagree openly about everything should have been your first clue.
 +1 / -0
Hecce
Hecce 2 hours ago

My two cents worth, this board and the WT are as different as night and day.
I come here post when I feel like, read what I like and have the choice of participating or not, as long as I don't break the rules I don't have to answer to no one and generally speaking I am free.
Compare that with the constant surveillance and suspicion in a congregation, try to open yourself even your most closest friends and you will see what happens.
 +1 / -0
JRK
JRK 2 hours ago

I am more an ex-JW anarchist or apatheist. I am a no cult zone.
JK
 +1 / -0
Wild_Thing
Wild_Thing 2 hours ago

It sounds like you didn't suffer from hurtful or abusive things growing up as a witness. That is quite rare, and I am happy for you. I am also quite jealous. I would love to not have the baggage that growing up a JW created for me, and I would have loved to simply walk away because I didn't believe. But the fact is, most people leaving the witnesses did not have the positive experiences that you seem to have had. If people on here sound angry, it is with good reason, and talking about it with people online is one way to deal with it and try to get past it.
It also sounds like you suffer from black and white thinking, which is very much a JW trait that is instilled from birth, so I think growing up a JW adversely affected you more than you think. Just because you had a great experience in the org doesn't mean most people have, and it is OKAY to have different thoughts and opinions about the JWs and anything else. I don't agree with everything I read on here, either. But this place isn't like the Kingdom Hall where everybody has to believe the same thing about everything. If you think the GB are uber upstanding guys ... you are allowed to think that. And people here are allowed to try to change your mind. And the best part is ...we can have an open and frank conversation about it nobody will be pulled into the backroom.
For your sake, I hope you are able to find a like-minded group of people that had a great experience with the witnesses, but just wants to leave. All four of you can support each other.
 
JRK
JRK 2 hours ago

Sparrowdown,
I am actually wearing a Misfits t-shirt.
JK
 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
i have posted one other time on this website.
just for the mere fact that i wasn't anger and bitter and ready to declare the gb the sociopathic criminals that so many here ascribe to, my initial question digressed to bickering over ad hominem attacks against the gb and not my beliefs that i'm questioning.
some did give me some help on my questions.



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Hurting
Leaving the JWs
by Hurting 19 days ago
stephanie61092
Finally posting and I'm FRUSTRATED!!!
by stephanie61092 2 months ago
Freeandclear
My Story
by Freeandclear 2 months ago
wayoutthere
Chronic relapse - what do I do?
by wayoutthere 18 days ago
new boy
How Did My Book Come About?
by new boy 2 months ago



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Facing mortality after leaving the witnesses
by truthseeker 8 hours ago 21 Replies latest 3 hours ago   jw friends
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truthseeker
truthseeker 8 hours ago

Tell me I'm not overly thinking this.
i'm 39 years old...still youngish...but I worry about getting old. I look in the mirror and it depresses me. I suppose I still cling to Watchtower Utopia when no one would age over 25.
I used to look forward to Paradise Earth because it meant all the evil in the world, nuclear warfare, terrorist attacks and sickos would be no more, but we are deep in the 21st century with no end in sight.
appreciate your comments
Truthseeker
 +4 / -0
freddo
freddo 8 hours ago

39 ?!!
I've got mayonnaise in my fridge older than that!
If there's nothing you can do about it then why worry?
 +6 / -0
FinchAndWeston
FinchAndWeston 8 hours ago

Bro, hang in there. Your hurting because you have never been allowed to hurt or worry before.
This journey away from the JWs is not an easy one, and it will be rough. But, we here have been down the same road and I think if you read some experiences of those who left here on this forum, you might find solace.
You are not alone and you are not the only one feeling this way.

 +1 / -0
truthseeker
truthseeker 8 hours ago
I've been out about six years. I had to relearn everything develop social skills. Occasionally I find myself wanting the comfort of a hope I know to be false.
 +1 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 8 hours ago

39 is still young enough to start all over again. You're still golden for doing whatever you need to do in life.
Best of luck to you.
DY
 +1 / -0
FinchAndWeston
FinchAndWeston 7 hours ago

"Occasionally I find myself wanting the comfort of a hope I know to be false." - Religion is a lot like alcohol - it's doesn't solve any of your problems but you do feel good for a while!
But seriously, all I can tell you is, don't replace one comfort for another.
That feeling you have: it's call fear. And you need to feel it, accept it and embrace it.
Otherwise it will paralyze you ... so confront it, then you can look your fears in the eye and say "you're not in control anymore".
Go back and reread some of the JW material and see how it played on your fears....
 +2 / -0
FadeToBlack
FadeToBlack 7 hours ago

WIsh I was in your shoes. I've got 20 years on you. I think about the 'dying thing' a lot but have come to accept it will happen. Actually, looking back at some of the stupid stuff I did in my life, I'm pretty happy to still be around. SO I just try to take it a day at a time.
What would you like to do with your life now?

 +3 / -0
Alive!
Alive! 7 hours ago

Hi
I'm a convert, so the thought of growing old and accepting that is how I was raised....but still, after a couple of decades of systematically repeating 'Armageddon' will come before the generation of 1914 dies away, being systematically fed illustrations of youth and paradise - it is difficult for our minds to 'swap' the hope that paradise will get here before long and we won't have to deal with age and death.
Thats how we talked - we laughed and joked about our joy of knowing we'd never get old in this system - and now we have to live with something that is grittier and challenges us to grow in a real way.
I still believe in God and that Christ's coming into our dimension was 'light'.
To me, the Watchtower created a kind of 'spiritual materialism' ( I heard that expression elsewhere and it applies!)
We were always chatting amongst ourselves about 'the new system' - where we would live, how we would look and the improvements we'd like on our physical selves....
And now, the youth of JWs are having babies and families without a blink - whilst many of 'my generation' deliberately chose not to, as we showed our faith putting off the distraction of raising families.
Now, at 60 years old - I have no children with my husband .....I especially feel for him, as his siblings (non JWs) have big extended families of children, grandchildren family friends acquired through a life of 'doing life together' and old age is almost a rich pleasure to his siblings.
This 'spiritual materialism' which the WT created is not, I believe, the spirituality that strengthens in a true sense.....
You are young and you have the opportunity to make a difference to others, every day !!! focus on that, and the wrinkles will become your friend...
Well, that's how I see it - it's working for me :smile:
 
truthseeker
truthseeker 7 hours ago

Thank you for your comments.
They are really appreciated and needed right now. I'm sort of going through a crisis and it's not what I'd call a midlife crisis it's a series of decisions, events, choices I made when I was in "the truth" and so on.
undoing some choices could cause more problems than just dealing with them.
 +1 / -0
FinchAndWeston
FinchAndWeston 7 hours ago
First, there is no rush. Take your time. You are not on a timeline crunch so take some time to pause. Seriously. Go for walks. Read. Spend time with family. A lot of the decisions will come naturally and give yourself time to process the existential crisis.
 +1 / -0

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Facing mortality after leaving the witnesses
by truthseeker 8 hours ago 21 Replies latest 3 hours ago   jw friends
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ttdtt
ttdtt 7 hours ago
truthseeker - you are going through what most of have or as still battling with. Worst bait and switch ever!
 
dubstepped
dubstepped 7 hours ago
I feel the same way. I'm 38 and just left last year. It's a total mindf*ck to go from never having to die to knowing you will. I'm a naturally anxious person with obsessive thoughts at time and it messes with me regardless of what others have said here. I'm trying to focus more on living a life I can be proud of when looking back on my death bed instead of focusing on the big dirt nap.
 +1 / -0
Hadriel
Hadriel 6 hours ago

I genuinely look at it this way. While fully indoctrinated I couldn't do a think about it. I mean I had no control. Be a decent person, do right by folks and hope that Jah wrote me in the book of life.
What's changed? Nothing really. I'm still the same person. Generally kind, generous etc. I have no control over things I have no control over.
Hence I worry about the time I have and let the chips fall as they may.
Seriously to me I'm in the same boat I've always been in only I don't believe in unicorns now. :smile:
 +3 / -1
FadeToBlack
FadeToBlack 6 hours ago

This is the toughest part for me:

Now, at 60 years old - I have no children with my husband .....I especially feel for him, as his siblings (non JWs) have big extended families of children, grandchildren family friends acquired through a life of 'doing life together' and old age is almost a rich pleasure to his siblings.
 
truthseeker
truthseeker 6 hours ago

Dub stepped,
I agree I am also that way.
 
BluesBrother
BluesBrother 6 hours ago

It was an absolute thump with reality to stop believing that I was going to live forever in youthful vigour , and realize that life was in fact three quarters over and I had wasted most of it.
Now even more has passed, I see old friends dying and I know that my own is in the foreseeable future....
That's life mate , just got to accept it for what it is.
 +1 / -0
Freeandclear
Freeandclear 6 hours ago

I'm 44. I was a convert at the young age of about 17. I didn't really wake up to the TTATT until about a year ago. It is very hard to let go of "the dream" as I call it. Eternal youth, etc.... Very hard to think about just being gone. I've come to the conclusion that there is one of two realities awaiting us at the end. Either 1. death just as JW's believe. Eternal nonexistence. Or 2. Something else happens. What that something else is is anyone's guess.
All I can do NOW is to live in the moment. Enjoy each day to the fullest. I continue to be a good person. I dont' harm others, I try to be good and fair to everyone even those I don't like. I know that if there is a God at the end I will be able to look him in the eye and say "I did my best" and he will know I'm not lying.
Humans have dealt with this "existential crisis" from the time we became self aware, and through all of it no one has any real answers. We find ourselves in this very real situation where we live and KNOW we will one day die. It's no wonder "religion" was created by the human mind to deal with it. Much easier to believe in some fantasy at the end than to deal with the reality that death is the end for real.
Best of luck to you OP. We're all in the same sinking boat so let's have a party while it's going down!
 
Mickey mouse
Mickey mouse 4 hours ago
I understand. I'm the same age and this year is giving me cause for reflection.
 
AnneB
AnneB 4 hours ago
Growing old and dying is a heck of a lot better than seeing the whole human race annihilated in front of me and wondering if I'm good enough to live through...

 +1 / -0
truthseeker
truthseeker 3 hours ago

Mickey mouse
i agree. I'm older than the elders were when I was a kid in the 1980s and 1990s. And the elders are mor or less retired. And so the cycle goes except I broke the cycle and left.
Freeandclear, let's have that party.
I miss the certainty that my hope was based on, and knowing even if I died I could get a resurrection.
 

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Topic Summary
tell me i'm not overly thinking this.. i'm 39 years old...still youngish...but i worry about getting old.
i look in the mirror and it depresses me.
i suppose i still cling to watchtower utopia when no one would age over 25.. i used to look forward to paradise earth because it meant all the evil in the world, nuclear warfare, terrorist attacks and sickos would be no more, but we are deep in the 21st century with no end in sight.. appreciate your comments.



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Facing mortality after leaving the witnesses
by truthseeker 8 hours ago 21 Replies latest 3 hours ago   jw friends
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JWdaughter
JWdaughter 3 hours ago

I left the Borg when young, but I still get a little freaked out realising I will one day die. I don't blame the Borg for that much, I think mortality hits everyone in their 30s if they haven't had a brush with it earlier.
My mid 40s, menopause, becoming a grandparent. All together now!!! Ouch
 
Xanthippe
Xanthippe 3 hours ago
I hear you. I hate the thought of getting really old. My friend says if she gets to eighty she's going to Switzerland and she doesn't mean to ski. I try to think what it used to be like to get old and I try to be grateful for dental care, hair dye, makeup, moisturiser, health care and spectacles.
 

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Topic Summary
tell me i'm not overly thinking this.. i'm 39 years old...still youngish...but i worry about getting old.
i look in the mirror and it depresses me.
i suppose i still cling to watchtower utopia when no one would age over 25.. i used to look forward to paradise earth because it meant all the evil in the world, nuclear warfare, terrorist attacks and sickos would be no more, but we are deep in the 21st century with no end in sight.. appreciate your comments.



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Status update and hello.
by Darkknight757 16 hours ago 15 Replies latest 9 hours ago   jw experiences
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Darkknight757
Darkknight757 16 hours ago

I haven't posted here in a few months and to be honest I haven't been lurking either. I hope everyone is doing well.😊 I wanted to take a minute to let you know how things have been the last few months.
Recently the brothers decided to FINALLY consider my letter of resignation. They met with me alone and I let them know why I have become inactive as a publisher and why I no longer wish to serve as an elder in the congregation. Overall the conversation with the body went well. I told them that I no longer trust God because of the loss of our children. I also told them that due to depression especially as the anniversary of the loss of our daughter Rose approaches, my depression has only gotten worse. They were actually ok with the wife and I going to grief support meetings which was kinda surprising. They still want me to serve but I told them I cannot and they accepted that. They also offered us a bible study which is a joke since I have no faith in God. My wife doesn't want a study either considering what she knows about the organization.
So things are progressing as good as they can at this point. We still attend some meetings but we are slowly fading away from them. Hopefully soon we can wash our hands of this filthy organization once and for all.
As for the depression, not sure how to deal with that. We talk openly about it but just getting up in the morning is a chore. I hate work, We plan to go away on vacation to commemorate our daughter as well as our sons loss. Hopefully we can find some healing in time?? Not really sure that'll ever happen.
 +14 / -0
stillin
stillin 15 hours ago
Every so often the brothers come across as human. I'm sorry for your depression but, of course, trying to continue with the congregation will only make things worse.Faking stuff never helps. I hope you find some joy, or contentment with other things that are actual gifts of creation. Good to hear your voice again.
 +1 / -0
zeb
zeb 15 hours ago
My condolences on the loss of your daughter. Time passing in the company of positive people and kindness to each other will be a balm to your sorrow.
 +2 / -0
The Rebel
The Rebel 15 hours ago

Darkknight, hello and I am doing great thanks. Also appreciate the update. I couldn't help but note in your second paragraph you wrote " Recently the brothers" " They met" " Overall the conversation with the body went well" " They were actually ok..." " They still want me..." " They also offered us a bible study..."
Anyway my point is, I don't believe you wrote that and thought about hiding identities, rather you wrote it about people who should be your friends, and have names like " Tom" " John" and " Jim" instead you repeatedly gave them titles as " brother" " the body" and " they"
In my opinion this says a lot about how you perceive the " organisation?" If so may I suggest you consider the fact that an " organisation" does not have feelings, it's individuals that have feelings. To clarify my point you wrote " The brothers decided to FINALLY consider my letter of resignation?" I mean come on, that's your decision, which can be discuseed with friends,that care about you, not those guided by an " Elders book Manuel"
I wish I could understand depression, I know it's a terrible illness because I have friends that suffer from it, actually maybe I should say I am glad I can't understand depression, but I hope I can empathize with it, and I hope you find the " healing in time" that you seek. Also I could never imagine, the pain you have gone through, please take care Mike in hyperspace.
The Rebel.( Mike)
 +3 / -0
Darkknight757
Darkknight757 14 hours ago

I see what your saying Rebel. I suppose the terminology I used is the cult speak that has been ingrained in me for the past 20 years. If they really cared they would have let me go when I originally wrote the letter since there was more than enough reason to. They wanted to wait for the next c.o. visit which was months away to see how things would work out.
This organization makes you feel as though you do not have ownership over your own soul.
 +7 / -0
NeverKnew
NeverKnew 14 hours ago

My heart sincerely goes out to you and your wife.
Im glad things are working out with your fade.
 +1 / -0
brandnew
brandnew 14 hours ago
Darkknight.....im so sorry for what you have been through. I cannot fathom losing a child, and to lose two is just heartbreaking. Please do not let the cult dictate what you do to grieve, and go at your own pace, and do what you feel best. My heart goes out to your wife too. The only happy ending to this is waking up , and walking out. Stay strong friend.
 +1 / -0
Daniel1555
Daniel1555 14 hours ago

Dear darknight
You did very well how you handled your resignation and inactivity.
From your words I sense that your wife also sees the flaws in this organisation.
I read your older threads and feel with you about the loss of your babies. This is a very sad and traumatic situation for you and your wife. You are going to grieve support meetings? Continue to do that.
Me and my wife lost a baby very early in the pregnancy, just a few days after we knew about the pregnancy. Because it was so early, the trauma wasn't as bad as if it happened later. Sadly this happens to many pregnancies. We later had a healthy and wonderful boy. However we are divorced now because of this cult indoctrination, but thats another story.
Concerning God I still believe there is a 'God' of love, however completely different to the biblical description of God. But I understand if you have lost your belief in a God. This is a very personal matter.
I was also an elder and had to go through this resignation process. How I did that and my experiences you can see in my older threads. Now I am df'd for apostasy and I am happy to be free to live a moral life according to my conscience.
I wish you and your wife all the best from my heart, that you can stick together and be free of this cults indoctrination and that you can go joyful through life despite every burden you are carrying.
Love Dani
 
Irish Dame
Irish Dame 14 hours ago

Please accept my condolences on the loss of your babies. It's good you are reaching out to others on this forum. Your depression must be taken seriously. Hopefully you'll find supportive people and if you choose, a competent and sympathetic doctor. I wish you and your wife continued success in your fade out of this dangerous cult and ultimately happiness.
 
mrquik
mrquik 13 hours ago

Hi DK; I too, was an elder. I've been out long enough to look back at what I was taught with a critical eye. Still, I believe some things taught made sense then & make sense now. I still believe that indeed there would be a period of time before God would intervene & correct mankinds' attempt at ruling himself. Until that time, it would be unjust for him extend loving kindness to some & not to others. I've seen my fair share of personal suffering, but I believe everyone comes back. (Other than those that have pissed off God directly.) I still pray. I thank God for life itself but I have quit asking for anything else. It's not time. We will all grow old & die. I'm confident many generations after us will do the same. In time, yes, I expect to be back. I expect to see all who have gone before me. I know it's not much to hang on to; but it has helped me immensely to carry on with life. I hope it helps you as well.
 

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Status update and hello.
by Darkknight757 16 hours ago 15 Replies latest 9 hours ago   jw experiences
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Doubting Bro
Doubting Bro 13 hours ago

Darknight,
So sorry for you and your wife's losses. It's always struck me as crazy that you have to get permission to resign a volunteer position but such is life inside the WTS.
I think going to grief counseling is a wise move. Please keep us updated.
 
punkofnice
punkofnice 13 hours ago

Hello, DK. I'm so sorry for the stuff you're going through. I would imagine you would be depressed with what you've been through too.
I don't know a way around that stuff, really. I'm the worst person to ask. What I do remember is, Churchill was quoted as saying: "If you're going through hell, keep going."
 +1 / -0
Giordano
Giordano 13 hours ago

This organization makes you feel as though you do not have ownership over your own soul.
This is true. It is why everyone marches in the same direction even if you are ordered to march off a cliff.
The WTBTS is consistently reckless with the health,welfare and education of their followers and has been that way from day one.
 +1 / -0
Darkknight757
Darkknight757 12 hours ago

I appreciate all the kind thoughts.
The organization would like us to forget those that we lose and just move on. Like brandnew said, they try to dictate our grief. Everyone is different and I personally think it's unhealthy to hide those feelings. That's why I love the grief support meetings. People of all backgrounds who come together to support each other. Many will tell us our babies are in heaven but I just don't find that comforting, but I also don't see a problem believing that if it helps a person to heal. That's a personal matter.
Mrquik, you mentioned prayer. I haven't gotten to that yet on a personal level because I don't know what to say. Honestly I don't know how to pray to God at this point considering the witnesses do it all wrong. Using the name "Jehovah" isn't proper according to my current understanding. But I really have no interest at this time trying to build a relationship with someone who I am unsure exists.
Daniel, sorry for your loss. I think it's hard for people to really understand pregnancy loss and stillbirth unless you experience it. People look at the wife and I like there is something mentally wrong with us. They often ask why we haven't gotten over it yet. 😕 I don't think it is something you just "get over."
 +4 / -0
tornapart
tornapart 9 hours ago
So sorry for your loss Darknight. I've been through that myself too, many years ago and you're right, it's not something you ever 'get over'. The pain of losing a child is unlike any other kind of pain and the grieving process takes a long time. I suffered with depression two years later and was told it was 'delayed' grief as I'd seemed to cope quite well at the time, went on and had another child and then 'Bam!' it hit me like a brick. Other people can't fully understand unless they've been through it. Especially as they may never have even seen your child as a baby. I really hope you and your wife find some way of coping with your grief. My heart truly goes out to you both.
 +1 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 9 hours ago

I cannot even begin to imagine what you are going through with the loss of two children. Parents are NEVER supposed to bury their children. I simply cannot find the words to express my sympathy for you.
I often suffer bouts of depression and I think that the only thing that "keeps me going" are my children and the goals that I want to help them attain before I leave the scene. I awakened to TTATT at an age much too late in life to turn "my ship" around and work toward the kind of goals and accomplishments that I could have and should have and would have had if only the majority of my life had not been snatched away by chasing false promises/prophecies.
I hope you and your wife find peace.
Doc

 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
i haven't posted here in a few months and to be honest i haven't been lurking either.
i hope everyone is doing well.😊 i wanted to take a minute to let you know how things have been the last few months.. recently the brothers decided to finally consider my letter of resignation.
they met with me alone and i let them know why i have become inactive as a publisher and why i no longer wish to serve as an elder in the congregation.



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StarTrekAngel
6
I am a bit screwed ... need some advice - non-JW issue
by StarTrekAngel in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 6 hours ago
so i am having a bit of an issue at work and has been bothering me for a while.

first, you may need to know a bit about the organizational structure that i am dealing with.

there is our coo (chief op officer).

talesin
AnneB
Simon
3 hours ago
fulltimestudent
2
Thanks to the process of digitising you can closely examine a 3000 year old Chinese oracle bone
by fulltimestudent in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 6 hours ago
quote: "cambridge university library, which is celebrating its 600th anniversary this year, holds 614 chinese inscribed oracle bones in its collection.

they are the oldest extant documents written in the chinese language, dating from 1339-1112 bce.

inscribed on ox shoulder blades and the flat under-part of turtle shells, they record questions to which answers were sought by divination at the court of the royal house of shang, which ruled north central china at that time.. the inscriptions on the bones provide much insight into many aspects of early chinese society, such as warfare, agriculture, hunting, medical problems, meteorology and astronomy.. among the latter is a record of a lunar eclipse dated to 1192 bce, one of the earliest such accounts in any civilisation.".

fulltimestudent
Earnest
5 hours ago
Queenme
8
My jw friend keeps preaching to me in e-mails
by Queenme in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 8 hours ago
dear friends this is my first time posting.

i am not a jw and have never been one but i have a friend who married a jw and converted.

in spite of the bunk barometer going off in my brain over the years and never responding to her efforts to convert me, she just cannot stop preaching.

tornapart
NVR2L8
sowhatnow
4 hours ago
truthseeker
21
Facing mortality after leaving the witnesses
by truthseeker in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 8 hours ago
tell me i'm not overly thinking this.. i'm 39 years old...still youngish...but i worry about getting old.

i look in the mirror and it depresses me.

i suppose i still cling to watchtower utopia when no one would age over 25.. i used to look forward to paradise earth because it meant all the evil in the world, nuclear warfare, terrorist attacks and sickos would be no more, but we are deep in the 21st century with no end in sight.. appreciate your comments.

truthseeker
JWdaughter
Xanthippe
3 hours ago
questioningmyfaith
45
I would rather be in the JW cult than the ex-jw cult
by questioningmyfaith in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 14 hours ago
i have posted one other time on this website.

just for the mere fact that i wasn't anger and bitter and ready to declare the gb the sociopathic criminals that so many here ascribe to, my initial question digressed to bickering over ad hominem attacks against the gb and not my beliefs that i'm questioning.

some did give me some help on my questions.

JRK
Wild_Thing
JRK
2 hours ago
Darkknight757
15
Status update and hello.
by Darkknight757 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 16 hours ago
i haven't posted here in a few months and to be honest i haven't been lurking either.

i hope everyone is doing well.😊 i wanted to take a minute to let you know how things have been the last few months.. recently the brothers decided to finally consider my letter of resignation.

they met with me alone and i let them know why i have become inactive as a publisher and why i no longer wish to serve as an elder in the congregation.

Darkknight757
tornapart
DesirousOfChange
9 hours ago
Crazyguy
25
To those who attended, attendance up or down at your memorial?
by Crazyguy in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 18 hours ago
interesting to see if there's a noticeable trend in memorial attendance.

also did they talk more then usual about ones not to partake?

disillusioned 2
JAGOfficer
millie210
2 hours ago
Ruby456
12
Easter, the memorial ... is there any worthwhile message for secularists?
by Ruby456 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 18 hours ago
an innocent man killed in the most awful manner replayed countless time all over the world has desire for justice writ large all it.

is this something that secularists can take from a religious event.

i think so.

Ruby456
OneEyedJoe
JWdaughter
11 hours ago
Labate
17
Evolution vs Creationism.
by Labate in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 19 hours ago
perhaps this has been discussed in the past, but i can't help noticing that on many posts creation vs evolution seems to equal theist vs atheist.

granted, a creationist by defination would have to believe in a creator.

on the other hand, believing in evolution doesn't automatically make one an atheist, a small point perhaps, but i think it would be more accurate to say believer vs nonbeliever.. just sayin'..

cofty
cofty
slimboyfat
7 hours ago
ILoveTTATT2
2011 Drama Clip - "We are not a cult"!
by ILoveTTATT2 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywtgbd1db9y&feature=youtu.be.

it is interesting to me to see how even back in 2011 the witnesses knew about the "mind control" and "cult" concepts.

it is very likely that relatives or loved ones of jw's stumble upon hassan and read "mind control" and go and warn their loved ones.


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Why all the hate...
by Dystopia 3 hours ago 15 Replies latest 8 minutes ago   watchtower beliefs
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Dystopia
Dystopia 3 hours ago
...toward Jehovah's Witnesses?
 
ttdtt
ttdtt 3 hours ago
Really?
 +2 / -0
SecretSlaveClass
SecretSlaveClass 3 hours ago
I have no time for Jehovah's Witnesses but certainly don't hate them - after all even children are Jehovah's Witnesses and no rational person would hate a child. I do however hate everything they teach and represent.
 +3 / -0
nonjwspouse
nonjwspouse 2 hours ago

...toward Jehovah's Witnesses?
Huh? It is hate towards being deceived , lied to, threatened with mental abuse etc ad nasueum by this organization that controls the JW. The individuals are both good and bad. Some really wonderful people, some assh8les. But all are misguided and tricked into submitting their lives, most of their time to enrich the hierarchy in Brooklyn, and the power hungry people within that strive for that powers by using religion as a means to gain it.
Just my Humble opinion
 +4 / -0
FayeDunaway
FayeDunaway 2 hours ago

I agree 100 percent with njws.
Also, if witnesses didn't have so much hatred towards other people and wish for the eternal destruction of most of humanity, they would be easier to like! Their own intolerance makes them 'hateable.' Even so, my ire is with those at the very top, mainly. Truly and dearly love MANY witnesses I've known, and I always will.
 +3 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon 2 hours ago

Have you ever talk to a JW? They will tell you, Jehovah tell us to hate the world, we are
no part of it our hope that all of you go down in destruction. Forget about loving your neighbor,
we hope they will be wiped from the face of the earth. We call it tough love, we hate we can't
beat our kids anymore like the good old days.
 +2 / -0
Village Idiot
Village Idiot 2 hours ago

Dystopia, they are the hatemongers. We simply respond to their hatred with or without hatred ourselves. Do you know what they've done to us?
◦Stolen our future by telling us not to go to college or university.
◦Stolen our present by having us go door to door.
◦Molested some of us while the molesters are protected.
◦Isolating us from what would be good friends outside the religion.
 +4 / -0
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 2 hours ago

No-blood policy.
Shunning policy.
Anti higher education stance.
Their "two-witness rule" applied to child abuse.
Not reporting child abuse.
Retraumatising victims of child abuse by subjecting them to interogation by men unqualified and untrained to deal with child abuse, let alone investigate and pass judgement.
Labelling any members who disagree with their teachings and policies as "mentally diseased appstates."
Labelling non-members who disagree with their teachings and policies as "opposers."
Teaching women should be "in subjection" to men.
Oh and they are judgemental, narissistic, close-minded pains in the arse.
What's not to hate?




 +7 / -0
Listener
Listener 2 hours ago
Could you please provide some examples Dystopia?
 +1 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon 2 hours ago

What kind of people that hate E.T. Harry Potter, Wizard of Oz, Star wars and Snow White just
to name a few children stories, but teach them about a talking snake, talking ass and a man
inside of a large fish. Most of us here are hated ( and I mean hated) because we refuse to go back
by our family members. It use to be showing love toward those that left but that love has turn
to hate these days, now they call us derogatory names.
 +1 / -0

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Why all the hate...
by Dystopia 3 hours ago 16 Replies latest 2 minutes ago   watchtower beliefs
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Virran
Virran an hour ago

Try to live with my mom for even a week and then tell me how much you love her. Seriously...
When someone tells me my ruler is the devil and that I will get slaughtered any day now (for 30+ years already) and have my eyes picked out and eaten by crows yea, I'll get a little defensive. That, and the fact that I like to expose the true nature of their seven evil leaders.
 +4 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon an hour ago

Virran: That sounds like all the old timers..."my ruler is the devil". I was told I was the
son of Satan.
 
Island Man
Island Man 30 minutes ago

Dystopia, what is the significance behind that choice of name? Are you a troll? I mean, your name seems to be vaguely alluding to reason why the JW religion and culture is hated.
The "spiritual paradise" that JWs live in is a dystopia.
A sick dystopia where the fanaticism of suicidally refusing medical treatment is lauded.
A sick dystopia where the pursuit of higher education is frowned upon.
A sick dystopia where persons are discouraged from using their own brain by the condemning of "independent thinking".
A sick dystopia where a domestic abuse victim is told to show more love and christian qualities to the abuser who may very soon kill her.
A sick dystopia where elders are trained to use scripture to counsel someone with suicidal thoughts but aren't told of the importance of directing such a person to receive professional counseling from experts trained in helping persons with suicidal thoughts.
A sick dystopia where all non-JWs are prejudicially labelled as "worldly" and "bad association" based solely on the fact that they're non-JWs and before and without even getting to know the individual's character.
A sick dystopia where pedophilia and other crimes by the members is kept secret from the police and other congregation members in the name "not bringing reproach on Jehovah's name"; and thus making it possible for pedophiles to abuse additional victims.
A sick dsytopia where a mother will shun her own daughter and a daughter her own mother for absolutely no other reason than the fact that one of them no longer agrees with a particular teaching of the Watchtower organization.
A sick dystopia where the organization that instituted the policy of shunning family; and the people who engage in shunning, turn around and blame the victim for the shunning.
A sick dystopia where people are literally afraid of finding out truthful information that would disprove their religion.
A sick dystopia where the meanings of words are changed for the sake of supporting an organization's agenda.
A sick dystopia where independent study of the bible is discouraged while blind trust in an organization with a history of embarrassing errors is encouraged and lauded.
Who loves a dsytopia? Who does not hate a dystopia? The brainwashed and deluded members of a dystopia who have come to be pass all practical and moral sense. They love a dystopia. But normal thinking people hate a dystopia.

 +3 / -0
brandnew
brandnew 21 minutes ago
Umm its not nice being called mentally diseased.😡
 +2 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 13 minutes ago

It isn't about hating JWS individually but rather exposing how this organization is both destructive and.damaging and how it badly sociologically and psychologically effects people.
 
sparky1
sparky1 9 minutes ago

.......just trying to follow Jehovah's advice: "Hate what is bad" - Amos 5:15 NWTRevised 2013
 
Dystopia
Dystopia 2 minutes ago

"Dystopia, what is the significance behind that choice of name? Are you a troll? I mean, your name seems to be vaguely alluding to reason why the JW religion and culture is hated."
My forum name has no relevance other than a fictional avatar. You do indeed derive a lot of hate from something that has little next to no relevance.
 

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...toward jehovah's witnesses?



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