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2015 Conference
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Financial Report for 2011 to Date

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Panama Papers  
Posted: 11 May 2016 01:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
Gatormann
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Has anyone taken note that two church business holdings were listed in the Panama Papers
as offshore corporations? Live in rural South so no news coverage. Had to find out on net. Any mention in the Wasatch Corridor?
Gatorman 
 


   


Posted: 11 May 2016 03:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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WinstonSmith
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Gatormann:
Has anyone taken note that two church business holdings were listed in the Panama Papers
as offshore corporations? Live in rural South so no news coverage. Had to find out on net. Any mention in the Wasatch Corridor?
Gatorman 
 
 
I haven't had a chance to pay much attention to the 'Panama Papers'. Can you be more specific on the names of the two offshore corps? How do you know (source) that these two holdings belong to the Church?
 Signature
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”  -Marcus Aurelius


   


Posted: 11 May 2016 04:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
Gatormann
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Rank
Joined  2016-05-09
 
  
 
Deseret Holdings and Boneville International registered in British Virgin Islands in 1998 and 2008 respectively. Read on MSN. Can google Offshoreleaks.org Gatorman 

   


Posted: 11 May 2016 04:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
Hank
Long Timer
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I checked that out the other day. I tried a few of the top dogs, but none of their names came up. I did see the ones mentioned by OP. I haven't seen a peep from the local (Salt Lake area) media about this. 

   


Posted: 11 May 2016 04:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
Gatormann
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I am going to get these links clearer but will have to get my ten yo granddaughter to do it. She is a wiz at this tech stuff Gatorman 

   


Posted: 11 May 2016 06:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
Avatar
Jon Marshall
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I typed in a few names that have a very high mormon investment.
 
Zions - had alot.
 
Bonneville - had 3. I am sure they are all related.
 
Could not find Deseret Holdings.
 
 
 Signature http://www.jonathankmarshall.blogspot.com


   


Posted: 11 May 2016 06:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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Tessa
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Gotta hide those "Deseret Hunting Lodge" assets...
 Signature
”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


            
 
 ‹‹ Top 13 Myths About Former Mormons        WHY SO SERIOUS!? ››  
 
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Thanks for the slaughter, God
by Strong Free & Thankful
Screaming in the Celestial Room
by Strong Free & Thankful
“The First Vision”- Today on Radio West 11 AM, Repeats at 7 PM
by NickB
FIRST INFO RE SPEAKERS FOR EXMORMON FOUNDATION 2016 CONFERENCE!
by Suzyq
Spare the Rod
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Jesus Scene illustration in Silent Subversion
by formormon
New Publication
by Strong Free & Thankful
Why do you think the Witnesses never recanted their testimonies?
by Utah Sasquatch
St. Judas the Traitor 1st Ward - Meetup - Sunday, May 15th, 10:00am at Harmons (Draper, UT) - ***New photo at bottom of thread***
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Soon to be ex-mormon Tyler Glenn (of Neon Trees) Trashes Church in New Video
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There was a knock at the other the last weekend...
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An interesting study on Porn
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WHY SO SERIOUS!?
by maynardg
Living in Spirit Prison?
by Celestial Wedgie
Top 13 Myths About Former Mormons
by DenverDude
Guilt and Fear ruin relationships
by Jon Marshall
Jeff Holland in Tempe "furious with people who leave"
by Smitty
The future of Mormonism?
by Quartersawn
"Empathy Is The Opposite of Utopia" a Possible Explanation for Mormon Empathy Deficit
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I never got an answer
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   http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/discussions/viewthread/42291/



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2015 Conference
"LEAVING A LEGACY"
October 16-18
Doubletree Suites
SLC, Utah










 


Financial Report for 2011 to Date

Financial Report for 2010 to Date

Financial Report for 2009

Twin Falls Newspaper Article

Twin Falls Billboard

Financial Report for 2009 to Date




The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
[Sound Thinking]

Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
[Peep Stone!]

Native American DNA
[Post-Mormon Mag.]



Summer Schedule
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/1)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
Coming up May 1’st 2016 - Kristyn Decker to lecture!
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (4/3)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
Imprompu get-together
[Dead Prophets Soc...] 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (3/6)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series- March 6th, 2016 Author Dave Nelson
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
Open House Meetup: 3/19/16
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
Train ride and picnic Meetup: 2/27/16
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series February 7th, 2016- Joe Rawlins
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
SF Bay Area Super Bowl Party (Feb 7)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
Jan 10th, 2016-Southern Utah PostMormons will present an outstanding lecture combo
[Southern Utah Pos...] 


Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by TheDogLady 
Book of Mormon Tories
by Chris Sexton 
Why I am a Better Mother
by antipsicótica 
Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by Barney 
Resignation Letter to My Family
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
former victim

The Book of Mormon Musical comes to South Carolina!
Swearing Elder

Resignation Letter to My Family
INRETROSPECT

Resignation Letter to My Family
oneanother

Utah County CALM meetup for November
BlackSheep2

FACEBOOK INFO
Crissy

FACEBOOK INFO
Barn

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
Starfleet

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
alvie

Why I am a Better Mother
by aworkinprogress 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
exmoinaz

SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
owned

The Mormon Mask
by Born Free 
Las Vegas Meetup--Jazz in the Park Saturday May 10 6:30PM
onendagus

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Resignation Letter to My Family
Hbush1987


            

Home Our Community
Discussion Forums
    · The Community Forum
 Post-Mormon Chapters

Chapters in Utah

Cache Valley Post-Mormons
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Forum Home  >  Member Forums  >  The Community Forum  >  Thread 
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The temple taught me the value of apostasy  
Posted: 29 April 2016 12:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
Avatar
LostInParadise
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I probably shouldn't share my thoughts this late at night, but I was thinking about Eve. [Side note, why is it that Lucifer helps out so much and teaches so many important ideas in the temple, if he's such a bad guy?]
 
When Lucifer offers Eve the "forbidden" fruit, she dares to consider a life that is different than the one she currently knows. She learns that she can have more truth and value and beauty than she ever knew in her seemingly perfect world (can't know joy without sorrow, etc). The newer films really depict this conscious decision to "transgress" as a means of progress -- not as a result of deceit, but of understanding.
 
Eve knows it will be painful and scary; she knows it will be hard. But with her new understanding, she knows it's really the only choice. So she bites the apple from the tree of knowledge! She doesn't even know if Adam will follow her, but she does it for herself, and then she begs him to follow.
 
They are forcibly cut off from their whole world, and have to forge a new life with pain, sorrow, ugliness, fear, and hard work -- but with more joy, beauty, peace, and satisfaction than they'd ever known in their previous state.
 
I'm slow, but I catch on eventually: I'm Eve! I'm being cast out of the supposedly perfect garden into a world of beauty and joy that can only be found by enduring the pain, sorrow, and loneliness that follows every apostate. I hope my wife will listen and follow me like Adam, but I have to choose for myself.
 
I can't believe how much the temple has taught me since going apostate.
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Once mormon, twice shy.


   


Posted: 29 April 2016 07:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized
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Interesting. My former stake prez insisted that the temple was all about Eve. Maybe he was on to something!
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You’re like the Gandhi of postmo. - Lloyd Dobler


   


Posted: 29 April 2016 08:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Swearing Elder
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Matter Unorganized:
Interesting. My former stake prez insisted that the temple was all about Eve. Maybe he was on to something!
 
I think he's got his movies mixed up!
 
 
 
 
 
 Signature
Palmetto PostMormons Chapter Page | Swearing Elders Blog


   


Posted: 29 April 2016 08:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized
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Swearing Elder:
Matter Unorganized:
Interesting. My former stake prez insisted that the temple was all about Eve. Maybe he was on to something!
 
I think he's got his movies mixed up!
 
 
 
 
 
 
I know, right? I was thinking the same thing! 
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You’re like the Gandhi of postmo. - Lloyd Dobler


   


Posted: 29 April 2016 08:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Morethanmo
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Swearing Elder:
Matter Unorganized:
Interesting. My former stake prez insisted that the temple was all about Eve. Maybe he was on to something!
 
I think he's got his movies mixed up!
 
 
 
 
 
 OMG!! I love that movie!!
 
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__________________________________________

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
~Epicurus
__________________________________________


   


Posted: 10 May 2016 09:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
CUtekittypUnk
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I have definitely contemplated that paradox. If I accept that this church is not true, I am like Eve going out into the lonesome dreaery world to discover for myself. If I dont make that leap, I never progress, I will be stuck here in "paradise" being told what to do to be happy. I wont know true joy until I move on from Mormonism.  
 
I guess that was the big mystery of temple worship I waited so long to learn. 


   


Posted: 10 May 2016 10:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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Silver Girl
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Temple movie plot twist...Satan is the one we should follow! 
 
I love this thread and the idea that we are like Eve.  Even though some things are harder...it's better and well worth it.
 
SG 


   


Posted: 10 May 2016 11:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
Avatar
Lloyd Dobler
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CUtekittypUnk:
I have definitely contemplated that paradox. If I accept that this church is not true, I am like Eve going out into the lonesome dreaery world to discover for myself. If I dont make that leap, I never progress, I will be stuck here in "paradise" being told what to do to be happy. I wont know true joy until I move on from Mormonism.  
 
I guess that was the big mystery of temple worship I waited so long to learn. 
 Yeah CU, we all just gotta make the leap.  I consider leaving the church to me maybe my greatest accomplishment in life.  There really should have been no way I would ever leave the church.  Ever.  And yet I did....and the whole thing was really hard but so worth it.
 
Life is not best enjoyed inside a bubble or a garden or somebody else's plan.
 
The freaking temple.  Holy moses I went so many times.  lol. I look back on doing that now and just can't believe how stupid it all was.  Don't be late switching your robe to the other shoulder! 
 
 Signature
Vindicated, I am selfish, I am wrong, I am right
I swear I’m right, swear I knew it all along
And I am flawed
but I am cleaning up so well
I am seeing in me now the things you swore, you saw yourself

Vindicated
Dashboard Confessionalhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDCED-qQExc


   


Posted: 11 May 2016 05:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
CUtekittypUnk
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Rank
Joined  2016-05-09
 
  
 
What I find interesting is that now that I have left and am techinically in "his power" : Satans... you think I would be compelled to do all sorts of naughty things...
 
Isn't it interesting that it was the prophets that were compelled by the Spirit to lop off heads, arms... all that killing for god reallly got to me. 
 
Those people always said they were led by the spirit to do this and that... not one ever said they were led by Satan to do it.
 
It really does make you wonder.... And it's no wonder they cast Satan out of their presence because they didn't want him to lead us to the truth! 


   


Posted: 11 May 2016 10:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
Fruit Fly
Jr. Member
RankRank
Joined  2016-03-29
 
  
 
I never understood the temple.
 
I was always looking for Blessings from attending but never found them. We saw others from the ward at the temple and we greeted each other warmly in the lobby, dressing room or chapel but soon after we would ride out the rest of the session in silence.
 
We watched the Movie made our vows of servitude and sacrifice to believe without question and pretty much give over anything that is unique to be used by the Church... not God but the Church! It's like being mutually abused.
 
When the abuse is over we all go out to dinner and enjoy each other's company. We don't discuss what happened in the Temple but we all know what happened to us and what it takes from us. It's the big family secret we are not allowed to talk about.


   


Posted: 11 May 2016 12:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
shinritowa
Newbie
Rank
Joined  2014-09-25
 
  
 
Fruit Fly:
 
Never heard it said better.  Thanks for posting.
 


   


            
 
 ‹‹ The big J in G’s        Soon to be ex-mormon Tyler Glenn (of Neon Trees) Trashes Church in New Video ››  
 
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Thanks for the slaughter, God
by Strong Free & Thankful
Screaming in the Celestial Room
by Strong Free & Thankful
“The First Vision”- Today on Radio West 11 AM, Repeats at 7 PM
by NickB
FIRST INFO RE SPEAKERS FOR EXMORMON FOUNDATION 2016 CONFERENCE!
by Suzyq
Spare the Rod
by Celestial Wedgie
Jesus Scene illustration in Silent Subversion
by formormon
New Publication
by Strong Free & Thankful
Why do you think the Witnesses never recanted their testimonies?
by Utah Sasquatch
St. Judas the Traitor 1st Ward - Meetup - Sunday, May 15th, 10:00am at Harmons (Draper, UT) - ***New photo at bottom of thread***
by BITE ME
Soon to be ex-mormon Tyler Glenn (of Neon Trees) Trashes Church in New Video
by left2008
There was a knock at the other the last weekend...
by guywithearrings50
An interesting study on Porn
by DenverDude
WHY SO SERIOUS!?
by maynardg
Living in Spirit Prison?
by Celestial Wedgie
Top 13 Myths About Former Mormons
by DenverDude
Guilt and Fear ruin relationships
by Jon Marshall
Jeff Holland in Tempe "furious with people who leave"
by Smitty
The future of Mormonism?
by Quartersawn
"Empathy Is The Opposite of Utopia" a Possible Explanation for Mormon Empathy Deficit
by Lloyd Dobler
I never got an answer
by Morethanmo 

   http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/discussions/viewthread/42268/



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2015 Conference
"LEAVING A LEGACY"
October 16-18
Doubletree Suites
SLC, Utah










 


Financial Report for 2011 to Date

Financial Report for 2010 to Date

Financial Report for 2009

Twin Falls Newspaper Article

Twin Falls Billboard

Financial Report for 2009 to Date




The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
[Sound Thinking]

Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
[Peep Stone!]

Native American DNA
[Post-Mormon Mag.]



Summer Schedule
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/1)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
Coming up May 1’st 2016 - Kristyn Decker to lecture!
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (4/3)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
Imprompu get-together
[Dead Prophets Soc...] 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (3/6)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series- March 6th, 2016 Author Dave Nelson
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
Open House Meetup: 3/19/16
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
Train ride and picnic Meetup: 2/27/16
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series February 7th, 2016- Joe Rawlins
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
SF Bay Area Super Bowl Party (Feb 7)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
Jan 10th, 2016-Southern Utah PostMormons will present an outstanding lecture combo
[Southern Utah Pos...] 


Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by TheDogLady 
Book of Mormon Tories
by Chris Sexton 
Why I am a Better Mother
by antipsicótica 
Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by Barney 
Resignation Letter to My Family
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
former victim

The Book of Mormon Musical comes to South Carolina!
Swearing Elder

Resignation Letter to My Family
INRETROSPECT

Resignation Letter to My Family
oneanother

Utah County CALM meetup for November
BlackSheep2

FACEBOOK INFO
Crissy

FACEBOOK INFO
Barn

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
Starfleet

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
alvie

Why I am a Better Mother
by aworkinprogress 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
exmoinaz

SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
owned

The Mormon Mask
by Born Free 
Las Vegas Meetup--Jazz in the Park Saturday May 10 6:30PM
onendagus

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Resignation Letter to My Family
Hbush1987


            

Home Our Community
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 Post-Mormon Chapters

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 Long Valley Post-Mormons
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I never got an answer  
Posted: 13 April 2016 08:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Morethanmo
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I never got an answer to my resignation letter. How long should it take?? It's been over 60 days. Ideas? I want proof and closure!!
 Signature
__________________________________________

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
~Epicurus
__________________________________________


   


Posted: 13 April 2016 08:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Winyan
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Did you send it to the membership records dept. in Salt Lake, or to your Bishop? 

   


Posted: 14 April 2016 09:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Morethanmo
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Winyan:
Did you send it to the membership records dept. in Salt Lake, or to your Bishop?
 
 Bishop. Only I never met him.
 Signature
__________________________________________

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
~Epicurus
__________________________________________


   


Posted: 14 April 2016 01:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
Strong Free & Thankful
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I think you should have received a letter right away acknowledging they received it and asking you to meet with the bishop?  Not sure how it goes if you send it to the bishop.  I suppose you could contact him asking if he received it.  Maybe that is what he wants.  I would give him more than his money's worth if he trys to make you meet with him--maybe a list of complaints, which he will not want to hear you ask about. 
 Signature
I laughed out loud and said “Thank you sir. And I hope every time you hear the name of JS you don’t think about him having sex with those girls and the women who were already married because if you’re going to start being honest with yourself then sooner or later you will also realize a real god would never do that, a real prophet would never do that, and it’s all just bull shit.”
Oh mercy, it just felt so damn good to say that.  —BOLD WISH


   


Posted: 14 April 2016 02:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Winyan
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Morethanmo:
Winyan:
Did you send it to the membership records dept. in Salt Lake, or to your Bishop?
 
 Bishop. Only I never met him.
 
 Sometimes bishops sit on it and don't send it in.
 
I would send a copy to the membership department at church offices in salt lake with a cover letter telling them how long you've been waiting to hear back, and you expect that they will expedite your resignation without a waiting period and without further contact from church leadership. That should get you a faster response.


   


Posted: 14 April 2016 06:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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Tessa
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Send the e-mail version to the church...you'll hear back.
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


Posted: 15 April 2016 04:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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Lazarus
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Tessa:
Send the e-mail version to the church...you'll hear back.
 
 I'm with Tessa on this one.  This is the route I went and everything was processed quickly and smoothly.


   


Posted: 15 April 2016 08:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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Winyan
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Tessa:
Send the e-mail version to the church...you'll hear back.
 
 Good idea.


   


Posted: 15 April 2016 09:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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Celestial Wedgie
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Hey Morethanmo, please let us know when it comes. I think there are many of us who will want to cheer with you on your graduation day! 

   


Posted: 19 April 2016 08:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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maynardg
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I gave my letter of resignation to my bishop on May 27, 2014 and he responded the same day saying that they had forwarded the paperwork to SLC.  I received my parole letter from the morg on July 31, 2014 stating that I was no longer a morgbot  --  YES!
Having said that I have heard of bishop's who have sat on the letter(like you'll change your mind) or sent it to the SP who then wants to visit with you to make sure you are sure you want to do this.  And just maybe there are enough resignations going on that that particulat unit is busier than a one-armed paper hanger!


   


Posted: 19 April 2016 08:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
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MishMagnet
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I've got a good one.
 
My bishop said he would sit on my letter until 1) I wrote him a personal letter admitting I knew what I was doing was wrong.  2) I agreed to accept a BOM from him that I would never destroy and within it a letter from him that would say I was going to live to regret this. 
 
I think there might have actually been a 3rd.  This was 8 years ago.  It was horrible at the time. 
 
I went over his head to SLC and they got things cleared up quickly.  They were very professional on the phone and there was no trauma whatsoever dealing with them.   
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I don’t want to ruin the ending for you ...... but it’s all going to be okay.


   


Posted: 19 April 2016 11:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]   

   
 
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maynardg
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M2  --  another form of control from an out of control over zealous penishood holder!  Many bypass these *#%holes by sending their letters directly to SLC themselves.  When I read stories like, it makes me wonder if we all belonged to the same organization and how some of these turkeys get to remain in their callings. 

   


Posted: 19 April 2016 06:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]   

   
 
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Elder OldDog
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Writing to SLC is the correct thing to do, and when you explain about the 60 days your inspired ward father wasted, use a few goddams and a couple of fuqs; spice up the day for the poor drone in the COB!
 Signature


   


Posted: 19 April 2016 06:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]   

   
 
Free2Live
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maynardg:
M2  --  another form of control from an out of control over zealous penishood holder!  Many bypass these *#%holes by sending their letters directly to SLC themselves.  When I read stories like, it makes me wonder if we all belonged to the same organization and how some of these turkeys get to remain in their callings.
 
 Well said maynardg! When I was the rubberband in the stretching machine between TBMism and knowing the local assholes were inappropriate, hypocritical bullies; I wanted to get some nice clean wholesome general authority to come into town and kick some stake president ass. The closure only came after I gave myself permission to take a look at mormon life from another perspective. Maybe it could be wrong. Hell what are all these facts that illuminate the falsehood? Followed by OMG!!! No wonder they get to remain in their callings. It is all a hoax. What I thought was a local issue opened up into being a massive landslide all the way back in church history and all the way up the chain of command. Then the PISSED OFF phase kicks in ...
 
... awe you all know the rest of the story. Congratulations to you all!
 
 
 
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One is as committed into testimony as much as they pay into the belief in dollars, time, talent and energy. Afterall, it has to be true once you have signed the lifetime subscription and you have a track record to defend.


   


Posted: 09 May 2016 06:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]   

   
 
CUtekittypUnk
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we used quitmormon.com to steamline the process. also, its a free service. 

   


Posted: 09 May 2016 06:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]   

   
 
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Elder OldDog
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CUtekittypUnk:
we used quitmormon.com to steamline the process. also, its a free service.
 
 Welcome aboard, CuteKittyPunk!
 
 
 Signature


   


Posted: 10 May 2016 07:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]   

   
 
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son of perdition
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I finally got an answer after 3 letters.  My wife and I have been apostate for over 30 years. I don't think we can be classified as inactive during this time because neither of us could stand being Mormon.  When we finally got a answer to our resignation letters there was no signature.  Does this mean that the leaders cannot truly act in God's name? or are they afraid to act in God's name? 
 
 It reminds me of praying to find out the truthfulness of the BOM and gospel.  I never got an answer on those matters either.  I guess according to "The Church" it isn't possible to resign due to the fact that the church is the only one true church with the only one true god. There is no escape from God.  I'm pretty sure the church plans on re-baptising me when I'm dead so they can keep me on the roles and feel better about themselves for being such good saints by making sure all the dead people are baptised.  Because after all we will all find out how true it is when we die.  
 
 If Jesus was truly resurrected and alive, why can't the prophet get Jesus to sign my letter himself? 


   


Posted: 11 May 2016 01:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]   

   
 
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Morethanmo
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CUtekittypUnk:
we used quitmormon.com to steamline the process. also, its a free service.
 
 Thanks CKP. I thought he was only doing tge letters for a short time so I was delighted to see I could still submit through that site. I will be SO relieved! 
 Signature
__________________________________________

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
~Epicurus
__________________________________________


   


            
 
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Forum Home  >  Member Forums  >  The Community Forum  >  Thread 
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“Empathy Is The Opposite of Utopia” a Possible Explanation for Mormon Empathy Deficit  
Posted: 10 May 2016 02:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Born Free
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Link to RSA presentation on The Empathic Civilisation, which presents an argument which potentially explains why fundamentalists are impaired in their empathic function.
It by extension offers an explanation of why former Mormons express a shift in their political and compassionate sensibilities.
Daryl
 Signature
‘Our life is the creation of our minds, and we do much of that creating in metaphor…. With the wrong metaphor we are deluded; with no metaphor we are blind. ’ Jonathan Haidt
‘and I am responsible for the metaphors that populate my mind.’ Daryl


   


Posted: 11 May 2016 07:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Lloyd Dobler
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I sure appreciate how you roll Born Free.  As you call it, the Mormon Empathy Deficit is very real.  For me, the lack of empathy was the single greatest thing that stood out to me when coming out to my wife and parents and sisters.  I just could not get over how these people who have shown empathy in the past, these people who I know for a fact love and care about me, were totally unable to extend empathy towards me, even when they could see that I was clearly in pain.
 
Over and over again I asked myself, why?.......and, how is this possible?  I think this presentation goes a long way in explaining the why and how tbms are unable to extend empathy to loved ones in a faith crisis.
 
"Empathy is the Oppossite of Utopia" does seem to strike at the heart of the matter.  While not heaven, the church IS Utopia and as the kingdom of God on earth, it is heaven on earth.  For tbms, they don't have to be in heaven yet to feel that they already are there.....as worthy temple recommend holders, they live their lives in a state of knowing that they are worthy to pass the angels and sentinels etc.
 
For tbms, the plan of happiness, the life of an active member, well, it is utopia.  As tbms say, the chuch is perfect even when though the people are not.  I've got to run into a meeting but I would love more thoughts on the matter......because I will never forget telling my wife about my loss of faith and her total lack of empathy towards me, even after the shock wore off......a lack of empathy for YEARS......
 
The Mormon Empahty Deficit is real. 
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Posted: 11 May 2016 10:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Celestial Wedgie
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Born Free, thanks for the link. I've now heard three different versions of the primates in the lab and the discovery of mirror neurons. (The version I liked best involved ice cream.) It's funny how that one irrelevant starting point held my attention at first, necessitating my scrolling back and watching the intro again.
 
Research that I've read suggests that mirror neurons also fire in response to witnessing another person having a positive experience, such as laughing or getting good news. The interesting thing is that the magnitude of response was less than that found when witnessing distressing experiences. For some reason evolution found it important to make us more sensitive to others' pain than to their pleasure.
 
I don't think that this mirror neuron hypothesis would explain Mormon Empathy Deficit. (And I agree with Lloyd; you came up with a great name for it.) The mirror neuron hypothesis is that our own suffering is an attenuated equivalent suffering witnessed in others. I don't think Mormonism has succeeded in generating any actual reduction in suffering. It might be effective at causing people to suffer in secret and silence, but the total quotient of misery doesn't seem (to me, at least) to be less for Mormons.
 
Instead, I think that some Mormons can reduce their compassion responses because of their belief that blessings are predicated upon obedience. "How can you be blessed if you won't do what God commands?"
 
I want to say it again: I really appreciate the stuff you bring to us here at PostMormon. When I see a post from you I read because chances are that I'll have to change how I see things!


   


Posted: 11 May 2016 02:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Born Free
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Celestial Wedgie:
Born Free, thanks for the link. I've now heard three different versions of the primates in the lab and the discovery of mirror neurons. (The version I liked best involved ice cream.) It's funny how that one irrelevant starting point held my attention at first, necessitating my scrolling back and watching the intro again.
 
Research that I've read suggests that mirror neurons also fire in response to witnessing another person having a positive experience, such as laughing or getting good news. The interesting thing is that the magnitude of response was less than that found when witnessing distressing experiences. For some reason evolution found it important to make us more sensitive to others' pain than to their pleasure.
 
I don't think that this mirror neuron hypothesis would explain Mormon Empathy Deficit. (And I agree with Lloyd; you came up with a great name for it.) The mirror neuron hypothesis is that our own suffering is an attenuated equivalent suffering witnessed in others. I don't think Mormonism has succeeded in generating any actual reduction in suffering. It might be effective at causing people to suffer in secret and silence, but the total quotient of misery doesn't seem (to me, at least) to be less for Mormons.
 
Instead, I think that some Mormons can reduce their compassion responses because of their belief that blessings are predicated upon obedience. "How can you be blessed if you won't do what God commands?"
 
I want to say it again: I really appreciate the stuff you bring to us here at PostMormon. When I see a post from you I read because chances are that I'll have to change how I see things!
 
CW,
One of my quirks is that I delight in having less than optimal ideas challenged, dislodged and replaced by better ones, even if that brings transitional discomfort.
And then closely following that, I love to share with others who will share my excitement. And you consistently are energised by similar things to me.
 
The latest research on Mirror Neurons says that the mechanism can be thwarted by powerful narratives. In one experiment people were shown footage of a large needle being jabbed into the fleshy web between thumb and forefinger on a hand, and their brain response recorded.
But then a series of single words were imposed onto that previously displayed image, words like: atheist, Jew, Muslim, Scientologist. And the mirror response was seen to drop off dramatically, suggesting that powerful narratives (represented in shorthand by the single word label), can massively negate the emapthic response.
Utopia is a narrative, and for religious folks, a pretty powerful one, which it could be argued not only disconnects them from 'others', but in various ways from themselves. Is not fundamentalist belief often a form of dissociative functioning, a way of not seeing what is right under your nose, to maintain belief?
But dissociation produces a living deadness, dullness. Does that explain why Utah consumption rates of AD meds is so high?
Daryl
Here is a great program exploring the latest research on human connection/disconnection. If rushed, start at about the 34 minute mark as Eagleman explores human capacity for genocide. If Mormonism was serious about what happened at MMM, it would be all over this research and the unpacking of its significance.
 Signature
‘Our life is the creation of our minds, and we do much of that creating in metaphor…. With the wrong metaphor we are deluded; with no metaphor we are blind. ’ Jonathan Haidt
‘and I am responsible for the metaphors that populate my mind.’ Daryl


   


Posted: 11 May 2016 03:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Born Free
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Lloyd Dobler:
I sure appreciate how you roll Born Free.  As you call it, the Mormon Empathy Deficit is very real.  For me, the lack of empathy was the single greatest thing that stood out to me when coming out to my wife and parents and sisters.  I just could not get over how these people who have shown empathy in the past, these people who I know for a fact love and care about me, were totally unable to extend empathy towards me, even when they could see that I was clearly in pain.
 
Over and over again I asked myself, why?.......and, how is this possible?  I think this presentation goes a long way in explaining the why and how tbms are unable to extend empathy to loved ones in a faith crisis.
 
"Empathy is the Oppossite of Utopia" does seem to strike at the heart of the matter.  While not heaven, the church IS Utopia and as the kingdom of God on earth, it is heaven on earth.  For tbms, they don't have to be in heaven yet to feel that they already are there.....as worthy temple recommend holders, they live their lives in a state of knowing that they are worthy to pass the angels and sentinels etc.
 
For tbms, the plan of happiness, the life of an active member, well, it is utopia.  As tbms say, the chuch is perfect even when though the people are not.  I've got to run into a meeting but I would love more thoughts on the matter......because I will never forget telling my wife about my loss of faith and her total lack of empathy towards me, even after the shock wore off......a lack of empathy for YEARS......
 
The Mormon Empahty Deficit is real. 
 
Lloyd,
 
Manifestly Mormonism is far from Utopia, but that does not stop members filling their head with that narrative. That is accompanied by putting their fingers in their ears, and repeating aloud 'La, la, la ...........' if anything challenges.
And once that narrative has contaminated their brain, any niggling doubts they experience will likely produce an inordinate overreaction to perceived threats from us 'anti-Mormons'. Such is the paranoid faith of fundamentalism.
But as that excellent paper in the library by Bill Gardner on the toxic impact on the capacity for intimacy reveals, Mormons lack connection with themselves more than anyone else. Capacity to 'empath' with another, can never be greater of healthier than connection with self, and shame damages that.
I come back to my theory that shame is the very treadmil that Mormonsim has members run on - endlessly.
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Posted: 11 May 2016 03:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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I coined this several years ago (wish I had trademarked it): 
 
Q: What do you call a Mormon with empathy?
 
A: A future ex-Mormon.
 
Every Mormon who has shown an ounce of empathy for me having left the church turns out to be on their way out too... 
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Posted: 11 May 2016 03:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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Swearing Elder:
I coined this several years ago (wish I had trademarked it): 
 
Q: What do you call a Mormon with empathy?
 
A: A future ex-Mormon.
 
Every Mormon who has shown an ounce of empathy for me having left the church turns out to be on their way out too... 
 
That's very consistent with what I expressed above.
 
It's the ones who've had an empathy bypass, that are the most welded on, and often the most cruel living anything but so called 'Christian values'.
Daryl
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‘and I am responsible for the metaphors that populate my mind.’ Daryl


   


Posted: 11 May 2016 04:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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Born Free:
Lloyd Dobler:
I sure appreciate how you roll Born Free.  As you call it, the Mormon Empathy Deficit is very real.  For me, the lack of empathy was the single greatest thing that stood out to me when coming out to my wife and parents and sisters.  I just could not get over how these people who have shown empathy in the past, these people who I know for a fact love and care about me, were totally unable to extend empathy towards me, even when they could see that I was clearly in pain.
 
Over and over again I asked myself, why?.......and, how is this possible?  I think this presentation goes a long way in explaining the why and how tbms are unable to extend empathy to loved ones in a faith crisis.
 
"Empathy is the Oppossite of Utopia" does seem to strike at the heart of the matter.  While not heaven, the church IS Utopia and as the kingdom of God on earth, it is heaven on earth.  For tbms, they don't have to be in heaven yet to feel that they already are there.....as worthy temple recommend holders, they live their lives in a state of knowing that they are worthy to pass the angels and sentinels etc.
 
For tbms, the plan of happiness, the life of an active member, well, it is utopia.  As tbms say, the chuch is perfect even when though the people are not.  I've got to run into a meeting but I would love more thoughts on the matter......because I will never forget telling my wife about my loss of faith and her total lack of empathy towards me, even after the shock wore off......a lack of empathy for YEARS......
 
The Mormon Empahty Deficit is real. 
 
Lloyd,
 
Manifestly Mormonism is far from Utopia, but that does not stop members filling their head with that narrative. That is accompanied by putting their fingers in their ears, and repeating aloud 'La, la, la ...........' if anything challenges.
And once that narrative has contaminated their brain, any niggling doubts they experience will likely produce an inordinate overreaction to perceived threats from us 'anti-Mormons'. Such is the paranoid faith of fundamentalism.
But as that excellent paper in the library by Bill Gardner on the toxic impact on the capacity for intimacy reveals, Mormons lack connection with themselves more than anyone else. Capacity to 'empath' with another, can never be greater of healthier than connection with self, and shame damages that.
I come back to my theory that shame is the very treadmil that Mormonsim has members run on - endlessly.
Daryl
 Shame certainly does.  I think the part I highlighted is a way better explanation than more commonly used, they are threatened explanation.  Certainly, my tbm loved ones were threatened....but it's got to be something deeper.  I totally agree with Mormons lacking a connection to themselves and that leads to an innability to empathetically connect with the ones they love.
 
Sure my parents a products of the paranoid faith of fundamentalism, but to not empathize AT ALL with their own son, who they completely love, seems to be a whole other basket of bananas entirely. 
 
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The future of Mormonism?  
Posted: 06 May 2016 06:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Check out Salon.com (sorry- I can't seem to paste in a link) regarding the Duggars and their Quiverful friends trying to arrange marriages for their barely-teenaged children. Is Mormonism due for the same fate? 

   


Posted: 12 May 2016 03:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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sl-skipper:
Check out Salon.com (sorry- I can't seem to paste in a link) regarding the Duggars and their Quiverful friends trying to arrange marriages for their barely-teenaged children. Is Mormonism due for the same fate?
 
 arranged marriages story on salon
 
 
Welcome to 2,000 BCE!!
 
 
 
 "There can be no real doubt that the intention of this event was arranged marriages for teenagers. On his website, Ohlman argues that “marriage (in order to be timely and to accomplish its purposes) ought to happen before the age of twenty for almost everyone.” While denying that he would marry girls of 12 off, he argues that once her breasts develop and her body is “physically mature enough to handle” childbirth “without damage”, it’s time for her to marry. 
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Jeff Holland in Tempe “furious with people who leave”  
Posted: 02 May 2016 01:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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  https://youtu.be/K4_LcENySzQ
 
"What kind of pattycake taffy pull experience is that?!? "
"I'm not gonna let you leave it." 
 
"That's the dumbest thing you can do, and the only thing dumber would be for someone else to follow you."
 
You can start at 31:00 for the thoughts on apostates, but the whole thing is good 1980's vintage moronism, and the Holland I know from my mission days. 
 
 


   


Posted: 02 May 2016 05:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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At the 19:30 mark mister Holland says "This is the church of the happy endings". 
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Posted: 02 May 2016 07:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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I found the parts I listened to kinda creepy.  It also caused me to reflect on the time when I would have listened to the same intonations and wild claims would have provoked a different emotional response in me.   How strange it is to have been on both sides of belief of this religion.  I prefer the green of the grass on this side. 

   


Posted: 02 May 2016 07:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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What an asshat. Compare with Dieter Uctdorf's comments in October 2013:
 
In this Church that honors personal agency so strongly, that was restored by a young man who asked questions and sought answers, we respect those who honestly search for truth. It may break our hearts when their journey takes them away from the Church we love and the truth we have found, but we honor their right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own conscience, just as we claim that privilege for ourselves. 
 
I have no use for Holland. I've gotten mileage out of Uchtdorf's comments, when someone was giving me the gears about leaving. I invoked the 11th Article of Faith, then Uchtdorf's comments. It worked like a charm and he hasn't harangued me since.
 
The only way in which Holland's comments could be to my benefit is if I were to hold them up to Uchtdorf's, ask which is more Christlike, and point out that even the apostles aren't on the same page.
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Posted: 02 May 2016 07:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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One of my favorite things to listen for in all of these GA talks are the subtle ways they try to instill fear in everyone in the audience.
 
He raises his voice to where its almost shouting and angry toned. You can hear the nervous laughter.  He is condeming them but at the same time sayings its okay to have doubts and questions, but listen to what we tell you before you do.   
 
I have asked many of the lds people i work with if they had heard of Jeremy Runnels, or the CES letter.  10 out of the 12 said NO.  Even with all that is out there on the web, they still won't learn or study anything but what the Church puts out.  
 
 
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Posted: 02 May 2016 08:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
peace out
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How dare you ask a special witness of JC to tell you specifically what he witnessed.
How dare you ask me to answer questions about the church.
Ok so what do you think your f-ing job is? 


   


Posted: 02 May 2016 08:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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What better way than to poke fun at the seriousness of TSCc's truth crisis? Laughter kills fear, and without fear there is no faith.
 
Holland was onto this concept but failed miserably in his approach to poke fun of the ones who contemplate bailing out of the sinking ship called a church. He sounded a lot like the late Hugh Nibley, in The Myth Makers, dispelling the seriousness of Brodie's work with lame humorous responses to the current bigger truth crisis now being faced.  


   


Posted: 02 May 2016 08:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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GA's ranting about people leaving, while church PR stridently insists that "everything is awesome!" makes me think of the old adage, "'Tis the hit bird that flutters."
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Posted: 02 May 2016 08:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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unintentional duplicate deleted
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Posted: 02 May 2016 08:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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Celestial Wedgie
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Matter Unorganized:
What an asshat. Compare with Dieter Uctdorf's comments in October 2013:
 
In this Church that honors personal agency so strongly, that was restored by a young man who asked questions and sought answers, we respect those who honestly search for truth. It may break our hearts when their journey takes them away from the Church we love and the truth we have found, but we honor their right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own conscience, just as we claim that privilege for ourselves. 
 
I have no use for Holland. I've gotten mileage out of Uchtdorf's comments, when someone was giving me the gears about leaving. I invoked the 11th Article of Faith, then Uchtdorf's comments. It worked like a charm and he hasn't harangued me since.
 
The only way in which Holland's comments could be to my benefit is if I were to hold them up to Uchtdorf's, ask which is more Christlike, and point out that even the apostles aren't on the same page.
 
 Oh my, thanks for that comic!


   


Posted: 02 May 2016 11:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
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Having Holland come "unglued" could be advantageous at some point in time.  And having Euckdorph say what he did  --  we can see the contradiction  --  but will it resonate with the TBMorgbots  --  that's the $64,000 question? 

   


Posted: 02 May 2016 11:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]   

   
 
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"The Pattycake Taffy Pull Experience" is the name of my new band. Thanks, Jeff!
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Posted: 02 May 2016 03:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]   

   
 
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Well, if anyone in the meeting was waffling about leaving, he just booted their butts out the door. Who's going to follow a crazed dictator? Oh wait....um...sheeple usually do. (Hitler, Saddam, Ben Laden, Isil....Loonie tunes, all.)
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


Posted: 02 May 2016 03:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]   

   
 
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LostInParadise
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owned:
https://youtu.be/K4_LcENySzQ
 
"What kind of pattycake taffy pull experience is that?!? "
"I'm not gonna let you leave it." 
 
"That's the dumbest thing you can do, and the only thing dumber would be for someone else to follow you."
 
You can start at 31:00 for the thoughts on apostates, but the whole thing is good 1980's vintage moronism, and the Holland I know from my mission days. 
 
 
 
This is such a red flag!
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Posted: 02 May 2016 04:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]   

   
 
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Smitty
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When they inserted the 11th Article of Faith it was probably a CYA thing that way they could say they were tolerant of all other religions/faiths.  I don't think they leaders at the time would have known that members would use this as a possible out mechanism.  Or may the profit  knew this already and that's why he did it.. it was divine revelation. 
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Posted: 02 May 2016 04:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]   

   
 
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That Will Do
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32:32 "this church means every thing to me, everything!" 
 
What about Jesus, Jeffrey H?  Does he mean anything to you?  
 
Im glad someone recorded this and put it online.  It makes Holland accountable for these rants.  


   


Posted: 02 May 2016 06:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]   

   
 
Strong Free & Thankful
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Matter Unorganized:
What an asshat. Compare with Dieter Uctdorf's comments in October 2013:
 
In this Church that honors personal agency so strongly, that was restored by a young man who asked questions and sought answers, we respect those who honestly search for truth. It may break our hearts when their journey takes them away from the Church we love and the truth we have found, but we honor their right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own conscience, just as we claim that privilege for ourselves. 
 
I have no use for Holland. I've gotten mileage out of Uchtdorf's comments, when someone was giving me the gears about leaving. I invoked the 11th Article of Faith, then Uchtdorf's comments. It worked like a charm and he hasn't harangued me since.
 
The only way in which Holland's comments could be to my benefit is if I were to hold them up to Uchtdorf's, ask which is more Christlike, and point out that even the apostles aren't on the same page.
 
 Bet he is furious with people who leave the church--there goes his paycheck! 
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I laughed out loud and said “Thank you sir. And I hope every time you hear the name of JS you don’t think about him having sex with those girls and the women who were already married because if you’re going to start being honest with yourself then sooner or later you will also realize a real god would never do that, a real prophet would never do that, and it’s all just bull shit.”
Oh mercy, it just felt so damn good to say that.  —BOLD WISH


   


Posted: 02 May 2016 10:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]   

   
 
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owned
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It looks like the actual intent of the talk has been made more clear : https://youtu.be/snAPU1JpssQ 

   


Posted: 03 May 2016 02:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]   

   
 
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incawhite
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LostInParadise:
owned:
https://youtu.be/K4_LcENySzQ
 
"What kind of pattycake taffy pull experience is that?!? "
"I'm not gonna let you leave it." 
 
"That's the dumbest thing you can do, and the only thing dumber would be for someone else to follow you."
 
You can start at 31:00 for the thoughts on apostates, but the whole thing is good 1980's vintage moronism, and the Holland I know from my mission days. 
 
 
 
This is such a red flag!
 
"I'm not gonna let you leave it."  
 
Yes, Red Flag, Red Flag   - no Free agency - 
Holland is losing patience, He feels the opositon very personal.  
This kind of behavior only happens when people feel threatened.
 
 
 
 
 


   


Posted: 03 May 2016 03:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]   

   
 
peace out
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owned:
It looks like the actual intent of the talk has been made more clear : https://youtu.be/snAPU1JpssQ
 
 Owned that was funny did you make that ?


   


Posted: 03 May 2016 04:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]   

   
 
former victim
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Me thinks he does feel threatened. Every time he speaks out, attempting to placate or diffuse the growing dissension, he's is being met with more and more controversial criticism that HE can't control no matter what he attempts, it's just not working like before.
 
When your whole life is tied directly to your membership and "apostolic" position, he's worried about shrinking benefits for him especially. Indeed, "tis the hit bird that flutters" rings true. And from what I could observe, he really did flap his jowls in Tempe once again.  


   


Posted: 03 May 2016 06:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]   

   
 
Free2Live
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former victim:
Me thinks he does feel threatened. Every time he speaks out, attempting to placate or diffuse the growing dissension, he's is being met with more and more controversial criticism that HE can't control no matter what he attempts, it's just not working like before.
 
When your whole life is tied directly to your membership and "apostolic" position, he's worried about shrinking benefits for him especially. Indeed, "tis the hit bird that flutters" rings true. And from what I could observe, he really did flap his jowls in Tempe once again.  
 
 Position title with benefits. People habitually dote on others that they think are in positions of grandeur. Shall we say a benefit of claiming to be an apostle is being worshipped? How dare the peasants speak evil of the lords anointed... One narcapostlisstic man, full of similar self worship, has said do not criticize them even if the criticism is true.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxyiHLg59ks
 
Awe, they are taking it personal. How rude of the leaders to have expectations of them to act like they talk on conference messages.  
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One is as committed into testimony as much as they pay into the belief in dollars, time, talent and energy. Afterall, it has to be true once you have signed the lifetime subscription and you have a track record to defend.


   


Posted: 03 May 2016 07:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]   

   
 
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Swearing Elder
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Imagine your young son or daughter acted this way on the playground. "Dad, Johnny doesn't want to play with me anymore. He's going home! Make him stop! Make him play with me!"
 
What would you do? You'd have a friendly but firm talk with the little one about how everyone gets to choose what they want to do and who they want to play with. You could tell him he could invite Johnny to play another day, but remind him it's Johnny's choice. And you could even tell him that it would be fine to wish Johnny well and just be fine with Johnny making his own choices.
 
Did I just compare Holland to a petulant child? I suppose I did, but what other comparison is more appropriate? 
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Palmetto PostMormons Chapter Page | Swearing Elders Blog


   


Posted: 03 May 2016 07:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]   

   
 
danboyle2
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"I am not going to let you leave..." 
 
Holland acts pretty brave and bold speaking to a bunch of young mormons...yet he was cowardly silent when asked a few questions by Tom Phillips, one of his "peers" in age and experience.
 
What a blowhard he is.
 
 
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“Truth Restored”....unless it becomes embarrassing, then we’ll change it.


   


Posted: 03 May 2016 07:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]   

   
 
Free2Live
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Swearing Elder:
Imagine your young son or daughter acted this way on the playground. "Dad, Johnny doesn't want to play with me anymore. He's going home! Make him stop! Make him play with me!"
 
What would you do? You'd have a friendly but firm talk with the little one about how everyone gets to choose what they want to do and who they want to play with. You could tell him he could invite Johnny to play another day, but remind him it's Johnny's choice. And you could even tell him that it would be fine to wish Johnny well and just be fine with Johnny making his own choices.
 
Did I just compare Holland to a petulant child? I suppose I did, but what other comparison is more appropriate? 
 
 Holland can be compared to many things, Petulant is appropriate.
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib_yQ7ESOB0  
 
Check out the 17:38 mark on this video.  
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One is as committed into testimony as much as they pay into the belief in dollars, time, talent and energy. Afterall, it has to be true once you have signed the lifetime subscription and you have a track record to defend.


   


Posted: 03 May 2016 07:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]   

   
 
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Swearing Elder
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FreeLive:
Swearing Elder:
Imagine your young son or daughter acted this way on the playground. "Dad, Johnny doesn't want to play with me anymore. He's going home! Make him stop! Make him play with me!"
 
What would you do? You'd have a friendly but firm talk with the little one about how everyone gets to choose what they want to do and who they want to play with. You could tell him he could invite Johnny to play another day, but remind him it's Johnny's choice. And you could even tell him that it would be fine to wish Johnny well and just be fine with Johnny making his own choices.
 
Did I just compare Holland to a petulant child? I suppose I did, but what other comparison is more appropriate? 
 
 Holland can be compared to many things, Petulant is appropriate.
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib_yQ7ESOB0  
 
Check out the 17:38 mark on this video.  
 
       
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Palmetto PostMormons Chapter Page | Swearing Elders Blog


   


Posted: 03 May 2016 07:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]   

   
 
Free2Live
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Swearing Elder:
FreeLive:
Swearing Elder:
Imagine your young son or daughter acted this way on the playground. "Dad, Johnny doesn't want to play with me anymore. He's going home! Make him stop! Make him play with me!"
 
What would you do? You'd have a friendly but firm talk with the little one about how everyone gets to choose what they want to do and who they want to play with. You could tell him he could invite Johnny to play another day, but remind him it's Johnny's choice. And you could even tell him that it would be fine to wish Johnny well and just be fine with Johnny making his own choices.
 
Did I just compare Holland to a petulant child? I suppose I did, but what other comparison is more appropriate? 
 
 Holland can be compared to many things, Petulant is appropriate.
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib_yQ7ESOB0  
 
Check out the 17:38 mark on this video.  
 
       
 
 yes and 
(P.S.) I am not selling what ever religion this video is indicitive toward. I Do not do any religion. I do accept Love as being real. 
(P.P.S.) I also do not sustain nor support a psuedo religion called mormonstories either!
 
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One is as committed into testimony as much as they pay into the belief in dollars, time, talent and energy. Afterall, it has to be true once you have signed the lifetime subscription and you have a track record to defend.


   


Posted: 03 May 2016 11:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]   

   
 
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dave (e_nomo)
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 Stay in the boat??  
But this boat (mormon church) is the Titanic 
 
  
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As Neo reaches for the red pill Morpheus warns Neo
“Remember, all I’m offering is the truth. Nothing more.”


   


Posted: 03 May 2016 12:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]   

   
 
peace out
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dave (e_nomo):
 Stay in the boat??  
But this boat (mormon church) is the Titanic 
 
  
 
 Lucky for us we are first to the life boats
 


   


Posted: 03 May 2016 06:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]   

   
 
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owned
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peace out:
owned:
It looks like the actual intent of the talk has been made more clear : https://youtu.be/snAPU1JpssQ
 
 Owned that was funny did you make that ?
 
 No, I just stumbled on it and found it funny! 


   


Posted: 04 May 2016 02:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]   

   
 
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guywithearrings50
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He's "furious" with us that left the church???
 
Well, Mr. Holland, I was (not any more) furious when I found out I had been lied to for so many years (18 yrs a temple going, temple marriage member).  
 
I was furious when I realized how much $$ I gave to the church so that I could go to the temple to take part is a creepy ritual with weird clothing and thought it was perfectly normal.
 I was furious when I found out JS was a fraud . I really admired him and was fascinated with him. He was one person in history that I wished I could have met in person. 
 
I was furious when I realized all the guilt I experienced as a member was all unnecessary.
 
I was furious when I realized the BoM is just fiction after having wasted my time reading it twice believing it was a true account.
 
 
Yeah, Mr. Holland. Be furious at me! I don't really care. You and your minions have no influence on me anymore. 
 
OK, rant over...I'm going to pull some taffy now... 


   


Posted: 04 May 2016 06:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]   

   
 
former victim
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Not just Tom Phillips, one should also include John Sweeney from the BBC documentary about "The Mormon Candidate" when his office "interview" with Holland went south, and he had to treat Holland like a hostile witness to pin his responses down to something credible. Holland's responses went so badly, that he claimed being blind sided even after Sweeney provided his intended questions prior to meeting with "El Dodo." 

   


Posted: 04 May 2016 08:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]   

   
 
David Jason
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I find it kind of strange that Mormons speak one way at church and completely differently when talking to people outside of the church. In the church they boldly proclaim wild and far-fetch claims as if they were doctrine, outside the church nothing is doctrine and open to interpretation. The leaders can't be this way anymore, they need to be consistent in their message as someone might be recording. It really put a damper on what they can say. Which I think we saw from last conference. Yay the age of information!
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Posted: 04 May 2016 06:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]   

   
 
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xtremewayz
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After i posted "one last strain of craze", i published my email in it, along with my name.
I recieved over 1300 emails from people leaving the church.  Some left alone, most left with at least one loved one (spouse, sibling etc.).  I had a guy email me that he and his 4 brothers collectively resigned the following day after reading my letter to the church.
 
I would guestimate between 2 and 3k people have left that were directly in contact with me the in the past few years.  Thank God they got out.
 
As to Holland, this is the same pathetically self absorbed, bloated (LDS - Lucifers Dedicated Servant) who refused to answer any of my questions.  Not a single one.  When questions are posed with specific requests, in the most childlike simplistic way....he folds.  He relies on his sophistry and subtle craftiness with words to shepherd you away from the truth....much the same way a wolf culls a young animal from the herd to ultimately kill it.  He is a master deciever, a wolf in sheeps clothing with zero real answers, zero truth, zero integrity and above all.......    HAS ZERO TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.  
I would meet with you anytime, anywhere Jeffrey Hollow-and to discuss real truth.  You bring your scholars, you bring your BS apologists and your BofM and lets have a real discussion on live TV to validate or disprove the truthfulness of you and the church you love sooooo much.  Make good on the promise you made to the BBC reporter that you would gladly meet with those who have questions.  Again.....spineless liar.  No substance to your character, no confidence in your BS testimony....because it cannot withstand the scrutiny of truth and honesty
 
Anytime.....you know where to find me and many others.  As a so called, self professed...."especial witness of Christ"  ........do your duty and meet with the lowly tithe paying serfs who actually know Christ and don't have to fake it.  IF...you are "especial"....then do your f**king job and meet with the people as Christ would do.  
 
Loser.  LIAR.  


   


Posted: 05 May 2016 03:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]   

   
 
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Quartersawn
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xtremewayz:
After i posted "one last strain of craze", i published my email in it, along with my name.
I recieved over 1300 emails from people leaving the church.  Some left alone, most left with at least one loved one (spouse, sibling etc.).  I had a guy email me that he and his 4 brothers collectively resigned the following day after reading my letter to the church.
 
I would guestimate between 2 and 3k people have left that were directly in contact with me the in the past few years.  Thank God they got out.
 
As to Holland, this is the same pathetically self absorbed, bloated (LDS - Lucifers Dedicated Servant) who refused to answer any of my questions.  Not a single one.  When questions are posed with specific requests, in the most childlike simplistic way....he folds.  He relies on his sophistry and subtle craftiness with words to shepherd you away from the truth....much the same way a wolf culls a young animal from the herd to ultimately kill it.  He is a master deciever, a wolf in sheeps clothing with zero real answers, zero truth, zero integrity and above all.......    HAS ZERO TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.  
I would meet with you anytime, anywhere Jeffrey Hollow-and to discuss real truth.  You bring your scholars, you bring your BS apologists and your BofM and lets have a real discussion on live TV to validate or disprove the truthfulness of you and the church you love sooooo much.  Make good on the promise you made to the BBC reporter that you would gladly meet with those who have questions.  Again.....spineless liar.  No substance to your character, no confidence in your BS testimony....because it cannot withstand the scrutiny of truth and honesty
 
Anytime.....you know where to find me and many others.  As a so called, self professed...."especial witness of Christ"  ........do your duty and meet with the lowly tithe paying serfs who actually know Christ and don't have to fake it.  IF...you are "especial"....then do your f**king job and meet with the people as Christ would do.  
 
Loser.  LIAR.  
 
 Where's that "Like" button when you really need it? 
 
 
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Why would you consider a man a prophet whose morals are worse than your own? Having claimed to commune with deity, be visited by angels and receive revelations, should he not be held to a higher standard? —me


   


Posted: 05 May 2016 06:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]   

   
 
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Ladyinthehat
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Actually....we can leave.
 
 
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(LessMon)


   


Posted: 05 May 2016 06:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]   

   
 
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incawhite
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Quartersawn:
xtremewayz:
After i posted "one last strain of craze", i published my email in it, along with my name.
I recieved over 1300 emails from people leaving the church.  Some left alone, most left with at least one loved one (spouse, sibling etc.).  I had a guy email me that he and his 4 brothers collectively resigned the following day after reading my letter to the church.
 
I would guestimate between 2 and 3k people have left that were directly in contact with me the in the past few years.  Thank God they got out.
 
As to Holland, this is the same pathetically self absorbed, bloated (LDS - Lucifers Dedicated Servant) who refused to answer any of my questions.  Not a single one.  When questions are posed with specific requests, in the most childlike simplistic way....he folds.  He relies on his sophistry and subtle craftiness with words to shepherd you away from the truth....much the same way a wolf culls a young animal from the herd to ultimately kill it.  He is a master deciever, a wolf in sheeps clothing with zero real answers, zero truth, zero integrity and above all.......    HAS ZERO TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.  
I would meet with you anytime, anywhere Jeffrey Hollow-and to discuss real truth.  You bring your scholars, you bring your BS apologists and your BofM and lets have a real discussion on live TV to validate or disprove the truthfulness of you and the church you love sooooo much.  Make good on the promise you made to the BBC reporter that you would gladly meet with those who have questions.  Again.....spineless liar.  No substance to your character, no confidence in your BS testimony....because it cannot withstand the scrutiny of truth and honesty
 
Anytime.....you know where to find me and many others.  As a so called, self professed...."especial witness of Christ"  ........do your duty and meet with the lowly tithe paying serfs who actually know Christ and don't have to fake it.  IF...you are "especial"....then do your f**king job and meet with the people as Christ would do.  
 
Loser.  LIAR.  
 
 Where's that "Like" button when you really need it? 
 
 
 
 , please add a like button!


   


Posted: 05 May 2016 06:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]   

   
 
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WinstonSmith
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xtremewayz:
<snip>
 
He relies on his sophistry and subtle craftiness with words to shepherd you away from the truth....
 
<snip>
 
because it cannot withstand the scrutiny of truth and honesty
 
<snip>
 
[   ] Didn't Jesus make reference to people like this is the New Testatment---"Pharisees" or "Sadducees"?
 
[   ]  Sounds like a great Meme---Picture of Holland during one of his rants that reads: "I cannot withstand the scrutiny of truth and honesty"
 
xtremewayz---Great Post!!! 
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“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”  -Marcus Aurelius


   


Posted: 06 May 2016 01:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]   

   
 
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Tessa
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I wonder if Holland is considering jumping ship, he's trying to bluster his way out of his own doubts? Man the lifeboats...??!!
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


Posted: 08 May 2016 01:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]   

   
 
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xtremewayz
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more double speak from an 'Apostle' of Christ.  He should take his own advice.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2azI9-6VSM
 
You'd think if he was following the spirit.....he'd know how full of sh*t he is.  This of course is the former President of BYU.  The left side of his mouth as no idea what the right side is saying.  As long as he defends himself with clever words like 'righteous indignation' or 'godly furry' he's safe.  
 
Holland you are so far from anything 'spirit led or spirit filled'.  What you are led by is Ego, Self Agrandisement, Self Importance, Selfishness, Psuedo Fame, Unrighteous Dominion to name just a few.  You crave the adulation of the uneducated hard working honest people who cannot articulate their concerns, nor do that have the courage to face you.  Very little separates you from Hitler in your presentation of your own ideaology. Though you are not killing people physically, you are killing their souls.  Those who escape realize how close to the second death they came. 
 
Jeff....you might consider what Elder Maxwell said......'beware of the spearlike pronoun.....I".  
 
Your picture should appear next to that definition Jeff. 
 
Matthew 12:37
 
....for by your words you shall be condemned.
 
 
 


   


Posted: 08 May 2016 03:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]   

   
 
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Quartersawn
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Wow... He is really loosing it!  I think HE is the one that is getting 'people tired' as he inferred on JC in the calming of the sea story. 
 
How is it that he is so fearful about people learning truth?
 
He keeps equating faith in christ with faith in the sinking ship known as the LDS church.
But they really don't believe in the work of Christ, otherwise they wouldn't do temple work, they wouldn't have checklist salvation. 
 
His apostolic blessing is nothing but a word salad of warm fuzzies, and he 'seals' it upon them, the empty promises through his impotent power.    I used to believe that shit. Disgusting.   
 
 
I've gotta get a beer to wash the taste of this out of my mouth.  
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Jeff Holland in Tempe “furious with people who leave”  
Posted: 08 May 2016 03:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]   

   
 
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I wonder if his imitation of an apostate saying "Answer every one of my questions... And maybe then I'll be a Latter Day Saint." is a petulant jab at Jeremy Runnels? 

   


Posted: 08 May 2016 04:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]   

   
 
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former victim:
Me thinks he does feel threatened. Every time he speaks out, attempting to placate or diffuse the growing dissension, he's is being met with more and more controversial criticism that HE can't control no matter what he attempts, it's just not working like before.
 
When your whole life is tied directly to your membership and "apostolic" position, he's worried about shrinking benefits for him especially. Indeed, "tis the hit bird that flutters" rings true. And from what I could observe, he really did flap his jowls in Tempe once again.  
 
 
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I laughed out loud and said “Thank you sir. And I hope every time you hear the name of JS you don’t think about him having sex with those girls and the women who were already married because if you’re going to start being honest with yourself then sooner or later you will also realize a real god would never do that, a real prophet would never do that, and it’s all just bull shit.”
Oh mercy, it just felt so damn good to say that.  —BOLD WISH


   


Posted: 09 May 2016 07:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]   

   
 
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owned:
I wonder if his imitation of an apostate saying "Answer every one of my questions... And maybe then I'll be a Latter Day Saint." is a petulant jab at Jeremy Runnels?
 
 I agree with you. I think it was a jab at Jeremy Runnels. 
 
Jeff Holland used his power and his tone to instill fear in most of those audience members.  
 
"He will not let me leave"  Well, guess what Jeff? You have no control over anything in my life, physical or spiritual!
 
Jeremy Runnels put them on their heels with his CES letter and they tried to put that fire out, but once it got online and shared it was over for them and now they are going to start dropping more rhetoric bombs about "not questioning" and "it will not be revealed" 
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Posted: 09 May 2016 08:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]   

   
 
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So, who's reporting this to the ACLU for threatening to force us to stay in the faith? Seems like a violation of basic human rights.
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Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
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Posted: 09 May 2016 08:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]   

   
 
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Jon Marshall:...
"He will not let me leave"  Well, guess what Jeff? You have no control over anything in my life, physical or spiritual!
 
 I'm really glad to live in a time and a country in which they really don't have much power at all. Sadly they still have my wife and they are trying their hardest to maintain power over my kids, but the power is quite little.
 
 I'm glad I don't live in a country or time where religion can destroy me for not believing.
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Posted: 09 May 2016 05:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]   

   
 
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Holland went to the Bill O'Reilly school of blowhard oratory.  Speak big, loud, and bold and give your audience hints about when to laugh. 

   


Posted: 10 May 2016 08:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]   

   
 
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"Stay on the boat", Really?  "I'm furious" and "stay on the boat".  I'm sure glad I didn't miss hearing this advice.  I might have drowned. Oh yeah,  "Watch out for all those evil patty cakers and their vile taffy pulling friends.  Heavenly Father would prefer you dead rather than having your cake patted or your taffy pulled."    

   


Posted: 10 May 2016 08:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]   

   
 
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son of perdition:
"Stay on the boat", Really?  "I'm furious" and "stay on the boat".  I'm sure glad I didn't miss hearing this advice.  I might have drowned. Oh yeah,  "Watch out for all those evil patty cakers and their vile taffy pulling friends.  Heavenly Father would prefer you dead rather than having your cake patted or your taffy pulled."   
 
           
 
[Wiping a tear from my eye!]   


   


Posted: 10 May 2016 10:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]   

   
 
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son of perdition
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Celestial Wedgie:
son of perdition:
"Stay on the boat", Really?  "I'm furious" and "stay on the boat".  I'm sure glad I didn't miss hearing this advice.  I might have drowned. Oh yeah,  "Watch out for all those evil patty cakers and their vile taffy pulling friends.  Heavenly Father would prefer you dead rather than having your cake patted or your taffy pulled."   
 
           
 
[Wiping a tear from my eye!]   
 
 I think it's pretty obvious that Jeffery isn't getting eough cake.  This thing looks more like a "cluster f-" than a taffy pull but I don't think he's free to speak his mind. 
Why speak in metaphors?  Is this a new Mormon metaphor like, "for heaven's sakes"?
 
http://mormonclusterfacts.blogspot.com/2016/04/elder-hollands-laffy-taffy-loss-of.html  
 


   


Posted: 10 May 2016 10:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]   

   
 
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Holland is one crazy bastard and he sure is pissed. 
 
You know the one thing he is not doing?  Talking about why and how it's so great and enjoyable to be Mormon.  Holland is so buy railing on people leaving or not pulling their weight etc that he is forgetting to actually sell his product.  Of course, that is not surprising because he has no product to sell......just fear.
 
If the church was so great and so true, then it wouldn't matter if some people left because so many more people would be joining because the product is so amazing and the church is just so damn true.
 
It's always all smoke and mirrors and hand tricks with Holland. 
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Posted: 10 May 2016 10:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]   

   
 
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Lloyd Dobler:
Holland is one crazy bastard and he sure is pissed. 
 
You know the one thing he is not doing?  Talking about why and how it's so great and enjoyable to be Mormon.  Holland is so buy railing on people leaving or not pulling their weight etc that he is forgetting to actually sell his product.  Of course, that is not surprising because he has no product to sell......just fear.
 
If the church was so great and so true, then it wouldn't matter if some people left because so many more people would be joining because the product is so amazing and the church is just so damn true.
 
It's always all smoke and mirrors and hand tricks with Holland. 
 
Holland is the great obfuscator. I remember the conference talk where he said the church had moved past issues like Ethan Smith and Solomon Spaulding. Except... He never explains HOW the church has moved on. He is the king of skirting the issues, of deflecting answers. Why? Because he's got nothing and he knows it.
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Posted: 10 May 2016 10:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized:
Lloyd Dobler:
Holland is one crazy bastard and he sure is pissed. 
 
You know the one thing he is not doing?  Talking about why and how it's so great and enjoyable to be Mormon.  Holland is so buy railing on people leaving or not pulling their weight etc that he is forgetting to actually sell his product.  Of course, that is not surprising because he has no product to sell......just fear.
 
If the church was so great and so true, then it wouldn't matter if some people left because so many more people would be joining because the product is so amazing and the church is just so damn true.
 
It's always all smoke and mirrors and hand tricks with Holland. 
 
Holland is the great obfuscator. I remember the conference talk where he said the church had moved past issues like Ethan Smith and Solomon Spaulding. Except... He never explains HOW the church has moved on. He is the king of skirting the issues, of deflecting answers. Why? Because he's got nothing and he knows it.
 
 Exactly bro.  When it comes down to it, Holland is bluffing.  He goes early and goes big and hopes to god nobody actually thinks about what he is saying.  
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Dashboard Confessionalhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDCED-qQExc


   


Posted: 11 May 2016 12:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]   

   
 
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If farting is in the alphabet Holland is nonstop talking. He piles on the shit that is for sure.
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Posted: 12 May 2016 03:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]   

   
 
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Free2Live, Holland may pile it on deep, and sell it metaphorically cheap, but eventually it breaks down into compost and sometimes the truth sprouts up regardless of how deep the accumulation.                         

   


Posted: 12 May 2016 04:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]   

   
 
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True that former victim. I know that in my former WTBM (want to believe mormon) self, I eventually stopped digging in the mountain looking for that elusive pony.
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Posted: 12 May 2016 04:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 56 ]   

   
 
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What Holland is doing is setting his position on a big "hot button" issue for most churches and also laying the groundwork for his possible acension into the first presidency and/or quorum president  when a new administration takes over at some point in the near future.
I think they know that Pres. Monson doesnt have long left and Nelson is getting up there too, so the "younger" members of the quorum smell blood in the water and are starting to circle like the sharks that they are. 
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Posted: 05-11-2016 12:58 PM
Author: shinritowa 


 Panama Papers
Author: Gatormann 6 251  
Posted: 05-11-2016 06:41 AM
Author: Tessa 


 My apology
Author: Kevin2 4 233  
Posted: 05-10-2016 10:08 AM
Author: Silver Girl 


 Why we have to be nice…
Author: Morethanmo 8 424  
Posted: 05-10-2016 08:13 AM
Author: Celestial Wedgie 


 Conspiracy theory time… Was JS murder a setup
Author: Smitty 4 318  
Posted: 05-09-2016 11:08 AM
Author: peace out 


 What might the Church look like in the future?
Author: TheDogLady 27 1189  
Posted: 05-09-2016 10:26 AM
Author: leftasteen 


 On Popes, Prophets and Natural Disasters
Author: Matter Unorganized 6 290  
Posted: 05-09-2016 09:43 AM
Author: leftasteen 


 LDS Church Announces Fifteen Big Changes In The Word Of Wisdom
Author: whitesalamander 4 360  
Posted: 05-09-2016 09:08 AM
Author: Celestial Wedgie 


 I’m Proposing a Direct Link Between Mormonism’s Misogyny, a Passive Aggressive Culture and High Porn Use
Author: Born Free 8 516  
Posted: 05-09-2016 07:49 AM
Author: CUtekittypUnk 


 Richard Turley of Swedish Rescue fame
Author: Quartersawn 8 716  
Posted: 05-06-2016 08:06 PM
Author: Elder OldDog 

 

  
   

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guywithearrings50
Hank
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(Joined in last 24 hours) 
Total members: 10270 


Thanks for the slaughter, God
by Strong Free & Thankful
Screaming in the Celestial Room
by Strong Free & Thankful
“The First Vision”- Today on Radio West 11 AM, Repeats at 7 PM
by NickB
FIRST INFO RE SPEAKERS FOR EXMORMON FOUNDATION 2016 CONFERENCE!
by Suzyq
Spare the Rod
by Celestial Wedgie
Jesus Scene illustration in Silent Subversion
by formormon
New Publication
by Strong Free & Thankful
Why do you think the Witnesses never recanted their testimonies?
by Utah Sasquatch
St. Judas the Traitor 1st Ward - Meetup - Sunday, May 15th, 10:00am at Harmons (Draper, UT) - ***New photo at bottom of thread***
by BITE ME
Soon to be ex-mormon Tyler Glenn (of Neon Trees) Trashes Church in New Video
by left2008
There was a knock at the other the last weekend...
by guywithearrings50
An interesting study on Porn
by DenverDude
WHY SO SERIOUS!?
by maynardg
Living in Spirit Prison?
by Celestial Wedgie
Top 13 Myths About Former Mormons
by DenverDude
Guilt and Fear ruin relationships
by Jon Marshall
Jeff Holland in Tempe "furious with people who leave"
by Smitty
The future of Mormonism?
by Quartersawn
"Empathy Is The Opposite of Utopia" a Possible Explanation for Mormon Empathy Deficit
by Lloyd Dobler
I never got an answer
by Morethanmo 

  


http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/discussions/viewforum/5/



 





2015 Conference
 "LEAVING A LEGACY"
 October 16-18
 Doubletree Suites
 SLC, Utah











 


 
Financial Report for 2011 to Date

 
Financial Report for 2010 to Date

 
Financial Report for 2009

 
Twin Falls Newspaper Article

 
Twin Falls Billboard

 
Financial Report for 2009 to Date





 
The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
 [Sound Thinking]
 
Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
 [Peep Stone!]
 
Native American DNA
 [Post-Mormon Mag.]



 
 Summer Schedule
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/1)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Coming up May 1’st 2016 - Kristyn Decker to lecture!
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (4/3)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Imprompu get-together
 [Dead Prophets Soc...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (3/6)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series- March 6th, 2016 Author Dave Nelson
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 Open House Meetup: 3/19/16
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 Train ride and picnic Meetup: 2/27/16
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series February 7th, 2016- Joe Rawlins
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Super Bowl Party (Feb 7)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Jan 10th, 2016-Southern Utah PostMormons will present an outstanding lecture combo
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 




 Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by TheDogLady 
Book of Mormon Tories
by Chris Sexton 
Why I am a Better Mother
by antipsicótica 
 Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by Barney 
Resignation Letter to My Family
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
former victim

The Book of Mormon Musical comes to South Carolina!
Swearing Elder

Resignation Letter to My Family
INRETROSPECT

Resignation Letter to My Family
oneanother

Utah County CALM meetup for November
BlackSheep2

FACEBOOK INFO
Crissy

FACEBOOK INFO
Barn

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
Starfleet

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
alvie

Why I am a Better Mother
by aworkinprogress 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
exmoinaz

SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
owned

The Mormon Mask
by Born Free 
Las Vegas Meetup--Jazz in the Park Saturday May 10 6:30PM
onendagus

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Resignation Letter to My Family
Hbush1987



 

       
   

  

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The Community Forum
## Of Mormons, Postmormons, and the Canyon Between
## The Cost of Liberty
## Spiritual Bedrock
## Leaving the Church, But Not Leaving It Alone
##Why Mormons Can’t Understand the Pain of Being Postmormon
## The Lamanite Issue is Not So Much a Matter of Doctrine as it is a Matter of Credibility
## PR Damage Control Team Responds to BoM changes
## Everything Happens for a Reason and Other Myths
## Understanding Homosexuality
## On the Outside Looking in: Surviving the Temple Marriage of a Loved One
## I'm an active Mormon. Is it OK to be here?
## Why People Leave the Church:The VIDEO
## A Recap of Post-Mormon History
## Resources for Those Investigating All Things LDS
Post-Mormon Magazine
##Native American DNA and it's Impact on Mormonism
## Changing Seasons 
##Why I'm a Better Mother, Now That I'm not a Mormon
Sound Thinking Magazine
##The Lost Book of Abraham
##Beyond Belief 2006
Peep Stone Magazine
## Relief Society President Released After Confession
## Nodding off on the Rise with 175th General Conference 
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Post-Mormon Scrapbook
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1Rose Dawson
David Jason
leftasteen
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(Joined in last 24 hours)
 
Total members: 10270 

   
 
 Screaming in the Celestial Room
by leftasteen
Thanks for the slaughter, God
by Strong Free & Thankful
“The First Vision”- Today on Radio West 11 AM, Repeats at 7 PM
by NickB
FIRST INFO RE SPEAKERS FOR EXMORMON FOUNDATION 2016 CONFERENCE!
by Suzyq
Spare the Rod
by Celestial Wedgie
Jesus Scene illustration in Silent Subversion
by formormon
New Publication
by Strong Free & Thankful
Why do you think the Witnesses never recanted their testimonies?
by Utah Sasquatch
St. Judas the Traitor 1st Ward - Meetup - Sunday, May 15th, 10:00am at Harmons (Draper, UT) - ***New photo at bottom of thread***
by BITE ME
Soon to be ex-mormon Tyler Glenn (of Neon Trees) Trashes Church in New Video
by left2008
There was a knock at the other the last weekend...
by guywithearrings50
An interesting study on Porn
by DenverDude
WHY SO SERIOUS!?
by maynardg
Living in Spirit Prison?
by Celestial Wedgie
Top 13 Myths About Former Mormons
by DenverDude
Guilt and Fear ruin relationships
by Jon Marshall
Jeff Holland in Tempe "furious with people who leave"
by Smitty
The future of Mormonism?
by Quartersawn
"Empathy Is The Opposite of Utopia" a Possible Explanation for Mormon Empathy Deficit
by Lloyd Dobler
I never got an answer
by Morethanmo

 http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/home



 





2015 Conference
 "LEAVING A LEGACY"
 October 16-18
 Doubletree Suites
 SLC, Utah











 


 
Financial Report for 2011 to Date

 
Financial Report for 2010 to Date

 
Financial Report for 2009

 
Twin Falls Newspaper Article

 
Twin Falls Billboard

 
Financial Report for 2009 to Date





 
The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
 [Sound Thinking]
 
Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
 [Peep Stone!]
 
Native American DNA
 [Post-Mormon Mag.]



 
 Summer Schedule
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/1)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Coming up May 1’st 2016 - Kristyn Decker to lecture!
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (4/3)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Imprompu get-together
 [Dead Prophets Soc...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (3/6)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series- March 6th, 2016 Author Dave Nelson
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 Open House Meetup: 3/19/16
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 Train ride and picnic Meetup: 2/27/16
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series February 7th, 2016- Joe Rawlins
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Super Bowl Party (Feb 7)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Jan 10th, 2016-Southern Utah PostMormons will present an outstanding lecture combo
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 




 Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by TheDogLady 
Book of Mormon Tories
by Chris Sexton 
Why I am a Better Mother
by antipsicótica 
 Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by Barney 
Resignation Letter to My Family
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
former victim

The Book of Mormon Musical comes to South Carolina!
Swearing Elder

Resignation Letter to My Family
INRETROSPECT

Resignation Letter to My Family
oneanother

Utah County CALM meetup for November
BlackSheep2

FACEBOOK INFO
Crissy

FACEBOOK INFO
Barn

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
Starfleet

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
alvie

Why I am a Better Mother
by aworkinprogress 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
exmoinaz

SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
owned

The Mormon Mask
by Born Free 
Las Vegas Meetup--Jazz in the Park Saturday May 10 6:30PM
onendagus

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Resignation Letter to My Family
Hbush1987



 

       
   

  

Home


Our Community















































































Our Library










Our Exit Stories
 

Member Options







     

    
 


  


 
 Introduction
 For New Visitors
 Mission Statement
 The Best of PostMormon.org
 












    
 

Click the above icon to go to The Community Discussion Forum, which is the most active area on this website. New members are encouraged to jump in and participate in the discussions. As you do, our House Rules ask that you remain courteous and respectful of others.
  
 
 
Click the above icon to visit our World Map where you can connect with other Post-Mormons in your area. If your part of the world doesn't have a map pin, please consider starting a chapter or becoming an official PostMo' contact person for your area. To find out how, click here and follow the instructions.
  
 
 
Clicking this icon will take you to a page in our Post-Mormon Scrapbook, that lists personal accounts of people who have left Mormonism. Many new members love reading these accounts because it helps them realize that there really are others out there who understand, and can relate to their experience.
  
 
 
The Post-Mormon Community relys on donations from people like you to continue its public awareness program. Whether you can contribute $5, $5,000, or more, you are helping us reach out to others like you, but who still think they are all alone. The Post-Mormon Community is a 501(c)(3) tax exempt organization.
  
  
  


























    
  
 


Our next project
will be announced soon.

Tax exempt status.
 




1Rose Dawson
David Jason
leftasteen
 Logged in: 3
 Not logged in: 61
 Logged in anonymous: 0




(Joined in last 24 hours)
 
Total members: 10270 

   
 
 Screaming in the Celestial Room
by leftasteen
Thanks for the slaughter, God
by Strong Free & Thankful
“The First Vision”- Today on Radio West 11 AM, Repeats at 7 PM
by NickB
FIRST INFO RE SPEAKERS FOR EXMORMON FOUNDATION 2016 CONFERENCE!
by Suzyq
Spare the Rod
by Celestial Wedgie
Jesus Scene illustration in Silent Subversion
by formormon
New Publication
by Strong Free & Thankful
Why do you think the Witnesses never recanted their testimonies?
by Utah Sasquatch
St. Judas the Traitor 1st Ward - Meetup - Sunday, May 15th, 10:00am at Harmons (Draper, UT) - ***New photo at bottom of thread***
by BITE ME
Soon to be ex-mormon Tyler Glenn (of Neon Trees) Trashes Church in New Video
by left2008
There was a knock at the other the last weekend...
by guywithearrings50
An interesting study on Porn
by DenverDude
WHY SO SERIOUS!?
by maynardg
Living in Spirit Prison?
by Celestial Wedgie
Top 13 Myths About Former Mormons
by DenverDude
Guilt and Fear ruin relationships
by Jon Marshall
Jeff Holland in Tempe "furious with people who leave"
by Smitty
The future of Mormonism?
by Quartersawn
"Empathy Is The Opposite of Utopia" a Possible Explanation for Mormon Empathy Deficit
by Lloyd Dobler
I never got an answer
by Morethanmo



 http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/home



 





2015 Conference
 "LEAVING A LEGACY"
 October 16-18
 Doubletree Suites
 SLC, Utah











 


 
Financial Report for 2011 to Date

 
Financial Report for 2010 to Date

 
Financial Report for 2009

 
Twin Falls Newspaper Article

 
Twin Falls Billboard

 
Financial Report for 2009 to Date





 
The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
 [Sound Thinking]
 
Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
 [Peep Stone!]
 
Native American DNA
 [Post-Mormon Mag.]



 
 Summer Schedule
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/1)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Coming up May 1’st 2016 - Kristyn Decker to lecture!
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (4/3)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Imprompu get-together
 [Dead Prophets Soc...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (3/6)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series- March 6th, 2016 Author Dave Nelson
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 Open House Meetup: 3/19/16
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 Train ride and picnic Meetup: 2/27/16
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series February 7th, 2016- Joe Rawlins
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Super Bowl Party (Feb 7)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Jan 10th, 2016-Southern Utah PostMormons will present an outstanding lecture combo
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 




 Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by TheDogLady 
Book of Mormon Tories
by Chris Sexton 
Why I am a Better Mother
by antipsicótica 
 Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by Barney 
Resignation Letter to My Family
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
former victim

The Book of Mormon Musical comes to South Carolina!
Swearing Elder

Resignation Letter to My Family
INRETROSPECT

Resignation Letter to My Family
oneanother

Utah County CALM meetup for November
BlackSheep2

FACEBOOK INFO
Crissy

FACEBOOK INFO
Barn

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
Starfleet

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
alvie

Why I am a Better Mother
by aworkinprogress 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
exmoinaz

SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
owned

The Mormon Mask
by Born Free 
Las Vegas Meetup--Jazz in the Park Saturday May 10 6:30PM
onendagus

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Resignation Letter to My Family
Hbush1987



 

       
   

  

Home


Our Community















































































Our Library










Our Exit Stories
 

Member Options







     

    
 


  


 
 Introduction
 For New Visitors
 Mission Statement
 The Best of PostMormon.org
 












  
 

 
 

 
 

 
 

 
 
 

The mission of PostMormon.org is to provide and maintain systems that facilitate the growth and development of a safe and supportive community for those who leave or are considering leaving the Mormon Church.

Welcome home!






















    
  
 


Our next project
will be announced soon.

Tax exempt status.
 




1Rose Dawson
David Jason
leftasteen
 Logged in: 3
 Not logged in: 61
 Logged in anonymous: 0




(Joined in last 24 hours)
 
Total members: 10270 

   
 
 Screaming in the Celestial Room
by leftasteen
Thanks for the slaughter, God
by Strong Free & Thankful
“The First Vision”- Today on Radio West 11 AM, Repeats at 7 PM
by NickB
FIRST INFO RE SPEAKERS FOR EXMORMON FOUNDATION 2016 CONFERENCE!
by Suzyq
Spare the Rod
by Celestial Wedgie
Jesus Scene illustration in Silent Subversion
by formormon
New Publication
by Strong Free & Thankful
Why do you think the Witnesses never recanted their testimonies?
by Utah Sasquatch
St. Judas the Traitor 1st Ward - Meetup - Sunday, May 15th, 10:00am at Harmons (Draper, UT) - ***New photo at bottom of thread***
by BITE ME
Soon to be ex-mormon Tyler Glenn (of Neon Trees) Trashes Church in New Video
by left2008
There was a knock at the other the last weekend...
by guywithearrings50
An interesting study on Porn
by DenverDude
WHY SO SERIOUS!?
by maynardg
Living in Spirit Prison?
by Celestial Wedgie
Top 13 Myths About Former Mormons
by DenverDude
Guilt and Fear ruin relationships
by Jon Marshall
Jeff Holland in Tempe "furious with people who leave"
by Smitty
The future of Mormonism?
by Quartersawn
"Empathy Is The Opposite of Utopia" a Possible Explanation for Mormon Empathy Deficit
by Lloyd Dobler
I never got an answer
by Morethanmo



 http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/home


 





2015 Conference
 "LEAVING A LEGACY"
 October 16-18
 Doubletree Suites
 SLC, Utah











 


 
Financial Report for 2011 to Date

 
Financial Report for 2010 to Date

 
Financial Report for 2009

 
Twin Falls Newspaper Article

 
Twin Falls Billboard

 
Financial Report for 2009 to Date





 
The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
 [Sound Thinking]
 
Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
 [Peep Stone!]
 
Native American DNA
 [Post-Mormon Mag.]



 
 Summer Schedule
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/1)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Coming up May 1’st 2016 - Kristyn Decker to lecture!
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (4/3)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Imprompu get-together
 [Dead Prophets Soc...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (3/6)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series- March 6th, 2016 Author Dave Nelson
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 Open House Meetup: 3/19/16
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 Train ride and picnic Meetup: 2/27/16
 [Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
 
 Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series February 7th, 2016- Joe Rawlins
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 
 
 SF Bay Area Super Bowl Party (Feb 7)
 [San Francisco Bay...] 
 
 Jan 10th, 2016-Southern Utah PostMormons will present an outstanding lecture combo
 [Southern Utah Pos...] 




 Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by TheDogLady 
Book of Mormon Tories
by Chris Sexton 
Why I am a Better Mother
by antipsicótica 
 Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by Barney 
Resignation Letter to My Family
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
sam2

Post-mormon Roles
former victim

The Book of Mormon Musical comes to South Carolina!
Swearing Elder

Resignation Letter to My Family
INRETROSPECT

Resignation Letter to My Family
oneanother

Utah County CALM meetup for November
BlackSheep2

FACEBOOK INFO
Crissy

FACEBOOK INFO
Barn

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
Starfleet

October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
alvie

Why I am a Better Mother
by aworkinprogress 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
exmoinaz

SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
owned

The Mormon Mask
by Born Free 
Las Vegas Meetup--Jazz in the Park Saturday May 10 6:30PM
onendagus

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage

Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Guru Busters
by Flora4 
Resignation Letter to My Family
Hbush1987



 

       
   

  

Home


Our Community















































































Our Library










Our Exit Stories
 

Member Options







     

    
 


  


 
 Introduction
 For New Visitors
 Mission Statement
 The Best of PostMormon.org
 

 Post-Mormons are members of a rapidly growing community of families and individuals who have voluntarily left Mormonism. We choose to no longer base our lives, and the lives of our children, on "truths" dictated by others. We believe that truth is freely available to any honest, diligent seeker regardless of creed, age, race or sexual orientation.

     
We have felt the butterfly’s metamorphosis. Forces that well up from within have compelled us to grow beyond the limits of Mormonism. And so we have become a loosely knit community of friends and support groups, and endeavor to help those like us who also feel the need to explore meaning, purpose and life beyond Mormonism. We celebrate the wonderful diversity of life as we experience as fully as we can our physical and cultural reality. We perceive ourselves as part of a human tapestry that is rich beyond our ability to comprehend, and wonder at this miracle. We have come to realize that there are more ways to do good, and be good, than we can number. What we once perceived as the “strait and narrow way” has broadened to include all ways that promote individual and collective well-being.
 We do not apologize for our inability to fully understand reality or the nature of our own existence. As Albert Einstein said:

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed."

 Some ask if we are anti-Mormon. Our answer is, no, we are not. We feel we are not because we acknowledge and want to keep all the good that came into our lives through Mormonism. We feel we are not because it's not our purpose to encourage people to leave the Church. We feel we are not because many of our family and friends are Mormons and we certainly are not anti-family and friends. But as an organization, we are open about the Church's misrepresentations and the way in which its dogmatism and authoritarianism have proven detrimental to many individuals, families, and communities. As Winston Churchill once said, "Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things."
 We do not advocate another form of Mormonism or any other religion and believe that loving one's neighbor begins with giving up the claim to have special access to truth. We feel that arrogance attends the illusion of “knowing the truth” and that such arrogance leads to a narrow-minded tribalism that impedes personal growth and fosters a divided community. Some of us choose to continue their spiritual journey through traditional religious means and others of us identify ourselves as atheistic or agnostic. We respect these choices as we do those of the well-informed among our family and friends who choose to remain traditional Mormons. We feel sad for those who choose ignorance of any kind and strongly disagree with the few within Mormonism who encourage ignorance and spread misinformation.
 Life is wonderful. We are overcome by feelings of gratitude for the glimpses we occasionally have of its majesty and mystery. And we revel in the opportunity to connect with each other and those of many other walks of life in ways more satisfying than anything we had previously experienced. We would welcome the opportunity to get to know you and invite you to join in the conversation in The Community Forum on this site.
 Sincerely,

  
 

 
 

 
 

 
 

 
 
 


























    
  
 


Our next project
will be announced soon.

Tax exempt status.
 




1Rose Dawson
David Jason
leftasteen
 Logged in: 3
 Not logged in: 61
 Logged in anonymous: 0




(Joined in last 24 hours)
 
Total members: 10270 

   
 
 Screaming in the Celestial Room
by leftasteen
Thanks for the slaughter, God
by Strong Free & Thankful
“The First Vision”- Today on Radio West 11 AM, Repeats at 7 PM
by NickB
FIRST INFO RE SPEAKERS FOR EXMORMON FOUNDATION 2016 CONFERENCE!
by Suzyq
Spare the Rod
by Celestial Wedgie
Jesus Scene illustration in Silent Subversion
by formormon
New Publication
by Strong Free & Thankful
Why do you think the Witnesses never recanted their testimonies?
by Utah Sasquatch
St. Judas the Traitor 1st Ward - Meetup - Sunday, May 15th, 10:00am at Harmons (Draper, UT) - ***New photo at bottom of thread***
by BITE ME
Soon to be ex-mormon Tyler Glenn (of Neon Trees) Trashes Church in New Video
by left2008
There was a knock at the other the last weekend...
by guywithearrings50
An interesting study on Porn
by DenverDude
WHY SO SERIOUS!?
by maynardg
Living in Spirit Prison?
by Celestial Wedgie
Top 13 Myths About Former Mormons
by DenverDude
Guilt and Fear ruin relationships
by Jon Marshall
Jeff Holland in Tempe "furious with people who leave"
by Smitty
The future of Mormonism?
by Quartersawn
"Empathy Is The Opposite of Utopia" a Possible Explanation for Mormon Empathy Deficit
by Lloyd Dobler
I never got an answer
by Morethanmo


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