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Where does WT get their money?
by Dreamerdude 20 hours ago 11 Replies latest 2 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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Dreamerdude
Dreamerdude 20 hours ago

I assume they get most of it from cash donations and assets left in wills. There may also be some income from invested assets. I guess they get a lot of money from old JWs who die childless or with only df'd kids.
Geographically I assume they get it mostly from a few countries that have many publishers and strong economies. They recently published their top 6 publisher countries:
1) US
2)Mexico
3) Brazil
4) Nigeria
5) Italy
6) Japan
I am sure the US makes up 50% of their income. Mexico, Brazil, and Nigeria are almost surely money losers, maybe even money pits. I don't think the Italians earn much profit, if any. I'll bet that Japan is number two in profits, with their super branch. I guess Germany is next with their super branch. I think the UK and and Canada turn sizable profits. Australia was profitable, even with their small population, at least until ARC.
Here is my guess about profits:
1) US 50%
2) Japan 18%
3) Germany 16%
4) UK (known to the stupid Borg as Britain) 10%
5) Canada 6%
6) Australia?
My impression is that the rest of the world either breaks even or loses money for the Borg. The case of India, which I read about here, is a funny case where the India branch has to beg Indian expats to donate from overseas, with copies of their passports.
What are your thoughts? I hope I have not exposed my poor accounting skills. Please take easy on me, since this is my first post of intended substance. I hope awake people in these rich countries can help dry up the funds to this lousy "charity".
 +5 / -0
Dreamerdude
Dreamerdude 20 hours ago
Sorry for the lousy formatting. Not sure what I did wrong.
 +2 / -0
Dreamerdude
Dreamerdude 20 hours ago
I guess they call them "lands", which baffles me as much as it did Angus Stewart.
 +3 / -0
LevelThePlayingField
LevelThePlayingField 14 hours ago

I like your post. Nice thoughts and I agree with the U.S being the cash cow for the org. And I think there are a lot of people who are no longer donating in the U.S. anymore either. That's why there well is drying up.
Too bad.
 +3 / -0
Dreamerdude
Dreamerdude 13 hours ago

Level, I hope you are right. I am trying to understand how the money men and lawyers who run the WT think. They must be considering their revenue streams closely, unless they are as foolish as Lett makes them seem, not really understanding what's flowing in and what's flowing out.
The US has a history of indulging cults, though, so Americans might be more generous, and for longer. This country has supported the likes of Puritans, Anabaptists, Quakers, Shakers, Mormons, Adventists, and Scientologists as well. It's the land of the free, in which some religions use their religious freedoms to take people captive. It's also the land of the brave, where people can stand up for their freedom.
 +3 / -0
smiddy
smiddy 12 hours ago

Doesn`t a lot of their money come straight from the sale of Real Estate that they own ?
Prime real Estate in NYC , Bethels , Branch Offices around the world , Kingdom halls that are built by volunteer labour and then sold off for profit , amalgamation of other KH,`s .
And let`s not forget the wiping of loan arrangements from the table that would have been paid off in a few years or more and then pledging that same amount of money to be paid to W.T. HQ for eternity or Armageddon , whichever comes first.
smiddy
 +3 / -0
Dreamerdude
Dreamerdude 11 hours ago
Yes, that's quite a racket. Get other people to build it, then sell it for 100% profit.
 +1 / -0
cookiemaster
cookiemaster 6 hours ago
I'm not entirely sure, but I think most Western countries they're present in, turn a profit. The US of course has over a million publishers, hundreds of thousands that probably donate and tens of billions in real estate. Other Western countries have much smaller JW populations, so they're probably only a fraction of the income brought by the US, but they're still profitable. Going by the reports, here in Romania they get quite a nice profit. All conventions seem to be making money. KHs have lots of money. They also seem to have tens of millions in real estate throughout the country. Just in this circuit they have all sorts of assembly halls and kingdom halls in cities where they can easily be sold for millions each to all sorts of corporate businesses. All build with free slave labor, of course.
 +1 / -0
WTWizard
WTWizard 4 hours ago

I know they are not getting anything from me. Nothing. Instead, I have the rule that if there is money for joke-hova, there is money for me to buy silver instead. I keep the silver.
Hopefully, that also goes for children not being allowed to have an ice cream cone.

 +1 / -0
Dreamerdude
Dreamerdude 2 hours ago

CooKiemaster, thanks for the information from Romania. I wonder how many countries are self sufficient like Romania. Maybe they reinvest the money within the country and send some of the profit to HQ to be used by poor countries where they have a deficit.
 +1 / -0

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Where does WT get their money?
by Dreamerdude 20 hours ago 11 Replies latest 2 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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Dreamerdude
Dreamerdude 2 hours ago
Wizard, I got wise like you and stopped donating too. I don't have much silver yet, by I do enjoy ice cream.
 
Driving Force
Driving Force 2 hours ago
Making money form donations is one thing. But something that really is disgusting is making money from shares in companies that manufacture and sell weapons, that is so hypocritical. And the dubs are not aware of that.

 

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Topic Summary
i assume they get most of it from cash donations and assets left in wills.
there may also be some income from invested assets.
i guess they get a lot of money from old jws who die childless or with only df'd kids.geographically i assume they get it mostly from a few countries that have many publishers and strong economies.



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RESPONSIBILITY vs. "moral" Responsibility (What is the distinction and what is the difference?)
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by Nicholaus Kopernicus 3 months ago
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Why did Jehovah want to kill Moses?
by Doug Mason 18 hours ago 13 Replies latest 3 hours ago   watchtower bible
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Doug Mason
Doug Mason 18 hours ago

On the way, at a place where they spent the night, the LORD met him and tried to kill him. But Zipporah took a flint and cut off her son's foreskin, and touched Moses' feet with it, and said, "Truly you are a bridegroom of blood to me!" So he let him alone. It was then she said, "A bridegroom of blood by circumcision." (Exodus 4:24-26, NRSV)
At a lodging place on the way, the Lord met Moses and was about to kill him. But Zipporah took a flint knife, cut off her son’s foreskin and touched Moses’ feet with it. “Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me,” she said. So the Lord let him alone. (At that time she said “bridegroom of blood,” referring to circumcision.) (NIV)
 As Moses and his family were traveling along and had stopped for the night, Jehovah appeared to Moses and threatened to kill him. Then Zipporah his wife took a flint knife and cut off the foreskin of her young son’s penis, and threw it against Moses’ feet, remarking disgustedly, “What a blood-smeared husband you’ve turned out to be!”
Then God left him alone. (TLB)
 +1 / -0
sowhatnow
sowhatnow 18 hours ago
lol, well, Im sure there's a lot missing in that story..... there has to be! [I wonder, has that been passed over in the weekly bible reading, lol ]

 
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 18 hours ago

OMG! This must be one of those scriptures the WTBTS ignored when I was growing up.
DD
 +1 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon 17 hours ago

It's so weird in the OT, what's the fascination with the foreskin?? Remember David
collected 200 of them.
 +3 / -0
Scully
Scully 17 hours ago

It was because Moses broke the Abrahamic covenant - the one that required males to be circumcised on the 8th day of life - by (1) marrying outside the tribes and (2) allowing his wife, Zipporah, to carry on with her family traditions, which did not, apparently, include circumcision of the male children.
PS - I inquired about this scripture to one of the Elders™ when I was 14 or 15. His answer? "Why don't you do some research and tell me what you find." I guess he didn't know how to say "I really don't know."




 +5 / -0
freemindfade
freemindfade 16 hours ago
The beat part is how moses wrote about his death (after he died) and said how he (himself) was the meekest man ever. Lol silly bible, go home you're drunk.
 +3 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon 15 hours ago

The true story: Damn't Moses you have been moping around for days crying
like a baby, my son is not circumcised God is going to kill me. Grow some balls man.
Zipporah threw something in Moses face. Moses jumps and ask , what the hell is this?
Zipporah: it's your son's little foreskin you jerk.
Moses: are you nuts can my son walk, can he wee wee?
Hell woman I will sleep with one eye open for now on, you are one crazy woman,
they told me not to marry your crazy ass.
Don't you think that makes a better read???
 +1 / -0
garyneal
garyneal 15 hours ago
https://youtu.be/ZyFM0_AhIYA?t=6m35s
 
Lieu
Lieu 15 hours ago

'Cause he was getting on God's last nerve.☺
The first part when he runs from the staff turned snake is hilarious.
I can just imagine it ...'What the???? Bye!' I'm out.
 
Daniel1555
Daniel1555 10 hours ago

There are a few bible verses that are too crazy to find normal explanations. They are even too crazy for Watchtower, so they ignore them. That's one of those.
In all the years growing up in JW land, this vers was never discussed.
Because it shows that biblical Jehovah is a psycho.
 +1 / -0

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Why did Jehovah want to kill Moses?
by Doug Mason 18 hours ago 13 Replies latest 3 hours ago   watchtower bible
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Half banana
Half banana 9 hours ago
Note the stone age knife being used betraying the story's stone age mentality.
 
TheOldHippie
TheOldHippie 7 hours ago

Not quite ignored, it is quoted in Insight, saying
Scholars have offered many interpretations of this passage, some of these being incorporated into modern Bible translations. (See CC, JB, Kx, La, NE, RS, as well as the German Zürcher Bibel, the Spanish Bover-Cantera and the French Crampon, Lienart, and Segond versions.) Such interpretations attempt to settle questions as to whether it was Moses’ or the child’s life that was threatened, whether Zipporah touched the feet of Moses or the feet of the child or the feet of the angel with the foreskin. They also venture opinions as to why Zipporah said (and to whom she said), “You are a bridegroom of blood to me.”
It seems that it was the child’s life that was in danger in view of what the law of circumcision states at Genesis 17:14; that Zipporah circumcised the child because she realized what was needed to set matters right; that she cast the foreskin at the feet of the angel who was threatening the child’s life to demonstrate her compliance with Jehovah’s law; that Zipporah addressed Jehovah through his representative angel when she exclaimed, “You are a bridegroom of blood to me,” doing so to show her acceptance of a wifely position in the circumcision covenant with Jehovah as the husband.—See Jer 31:32.
But there is no way of Scripturally settling such questions with certainty. The literal reading of the ancient Hebrew in this passage is veiled in the idioms used nearly 3,500 years ago. This is why literal translations (NW, Ro, Yg) and others (AS, KJ, Da, Dy, JP, Mo, Le), including the ancient Greek Septuagint, are not clear on these matters.
 
Room 215
Room 215 3 hours ago
Old Hippie, that's about as much as can be reasonably said about this very arcane passage.... 3,500 year-old Hebrew idioms indeed.
 
St George of England
St George of England 3 hours ago

Yet none of the children were circumcised during the 40 year trek in the wilderness without any problem.
This necessitated the mass circumcision when they reached the promised land.
Just fables.
George
 

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Topic Summary
on the way, at a place where they spent the night, the lord met him and tried to kill him.
but zipporah took a flint and cut off her son's foreskin, and touched moses' feet with it, and said, "truly you are a bridegroom of blood to me!
it was then she said, "a bridegroom of blood by circumcision.



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JWTV May Broadcast is up. hosted by an old burnt hot dog
by Dreamerdude 14 hours ago 9 Replies latest 2 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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Dreamerdude
Dreamerdude 14 hours ago
What's up with JW parents taking their minor children to such desolate places? Like the English family that took their little kids to the jungles of Ecuador, and the Australians that took their little ones to Norfolk Island where hardly anyone lives, and they are the only children in a congregation of 11 publishers? Is this a new form of child abuse?
 +6 / -2
Dreamerdude
Dreamerdude 13 hours ago
Tony has an interesting way of bragging about his two Bethelite sons, that he thinks make him look good. He can probably guarantee employment for them while he's alive, even with Bethel cutbacks. He can make them look good to their Bethel heavy bosses.
 +9 / -1
Daniel1555
Daniel1555 10 hours ago

I don't get it.
Why do you talk about desolate places?
Norfolk Island is not a desolate place. It's a beautiful and interesting island and anything but child abuse to live there when there are about 2300 inhabitants.
The same with the rain forest in Equador.
Or is it better to live in a crime infested mega city? Is that child abuse too?
 +7 / -0
TheOldHippie
TheOldHippie 10 hours ago
When other people take their children with them to spend a year sailing around the world, live for some years among highland people of the Andes, live in China to broaden their view - it is regarded an excellent thing and lots of other people sigh, thinking/saying "why didn't WE do that"? Why is it a bad thing in Your eyes? We often have planned or thought of setting off and living somewhere else for months/years, but never have gotten as far as really doing it. Wish it were me, wish it were my parents.
 +5 / -0
Daniel1555
Daniel1555 10 hours ago

Tony talks about Satans diabolical attacks to destroy families.
Who is destroying families?
Doesn't the last Watchtower Study article about shunning family members diabolically destroy families if it is applied?
 +8 / -0
WTWizard
WTWizard 4 hours ago

I wasted the electricity to watch that video, and it was terrible. Most of it was so forgettable that I would view it a total waste. So joke-hova cares about the blind--that is, enslaving them. Big deal. That thing wants us all enslaved.
And yes, that thing hogs massive amounts of computer resources. Even worse than regular YouTube.

 
SafeAtHome
SafeAtHome 3 hours ago
I think I can understand what dreamerdude means. A member of my extended family recently went to Ecuador with two young children to do whatever something free for the borg. This wasnt a comfortable vacation on a sailboat with sunshine and fishing all day. This was in a very poor area. These kids are isolated, home schooled, and exposed to illness and disease they wouldn't be at home. They were out of touch during the recent earthquake. I guess the "great" learning experience would be there's no place like home?
 +3 / -0
dubstepped
dubstepped 3 hours ago
I get what Dreamer is saying too. People rip their kids away from friends and family in congregations often to move to economically depressed rural areas to help where the need is great. Screw the kids, it's all about the adults. I knew a family that decided to learn Spanish and serve there. The kids had no choice and lost friends to go sit in meetings with people and talks they couldn't understand. That marriage broke up and the kids ended up in therapy. Maybe it isn't reflective of the particular place mentioned in the DubTV video this month, but it's definitely an abusive thing that goes on.
 +2 / -0
Dreamerdude
Dreamerdude 2 hours ago

Dan and Hippie, I definitely see some positive aspects to traveling with children. My family and I love traveling. Traveling to unassigned territory for a week at a time was nice too, enjoying the mountains, or beaches and the local foods and such. I would like to travel to Norfolk Island. The Norfolk Island Pine is one of my favorite trees, with their beautiful symmetry. The Ecuador rainforest seems like a fascinating place. Even camping and fishing at Lake Baikal in Siberia, featured in the May broadcast, would be fun for a week or two. And if I could afford it, extended travel for a few months or maybe a year might be good for the kids.
Safe and Dubstepped picked up on the abusive aspects that I was thinking about. They read my mind.
In the case of the trip to Lake Baikal, I am sure it was fun to enjoy nature and eat those delicious fish. But asking the boy to try to recruit the locals is abusive. There is more productive work they could have done, like perhaps building latrines, or picking up trash.
In the earlier example of the English family that moved to Ecuador, It appeared to me that the parents were uprooting the kids permanently. Maybe they were happy to leave dead end jobs to spend their savings or inheritance, but how will the kids socialize and get needed education?
in the magazine article about Norfolk Island I felt bad for the two little boys, because the only friends they would be allowed to have are the 11 JWs that live on the island. If I read the article right, checking the YB, they are the only two kids. And the parents knew that going it this. But I have the admit it, Swiss Family Robinson catches my imagination.
 +3 / -0
sir82
sir82 2 hours ago

Had a "friend of a friend" pick up and move his family to Panama.
They lived off savings. Neither parent worked over there.
Their days were built entirely around either field serve-us, preparing for meetings, or home-schooling their kids. Nothing else.

They attended an English congregation, where there were no other parents with children.
They refused to learn Spanish. Apparently had no interest in doing so.
So, basically, the kids (both pre-teens) had absolutely 0 social contact with anyone under the age of 30 or so. Week after week, month after month.
Fortunately, the parents, after a couple of years, finally realized the damage they ere doing to their kids and moved back to the USA.
It sounded like a perfectly atrocious lifestyle. Even their "preaching work" was a fiasco - they either wasted their time preaching to US & British ex-pats who had 0 interest, or to locals who quickly realized the "Bible study" was a free way to learn English, and so agreed to a "study" for that reason only.

 +3 / -0

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"How JWs differ from other Christians:" now on Google News
by Sugar Shane 6 hours ago 5 Replies latest 2 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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Sugar Shane
Sugar Shane 6 hours ago

PLEASE post some comments on this news-site! It's not a bad piece of journalism, but there are definitely some gaps that need to be filled.
The pro-JW apologists have already started posting on it! Here's the link: http://www.worldreligionnews.com/religion-news/christianity/the-jehovahs-witnessess-religion-and-how-they-differ-from-other-christians
 
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 6 hours ago

The article seems very unbiased. I'm satisfied with the info.
DY
 
carla
carla 5 hours ago

They believe Jesus Christ is the key to salvation? really? since when?
I remember some quotes from the wt's that state being a jw is the key to having any hope (no guarantee) of salvation.
I have heard of comment made by jw's that snear at the mere thought of Jesus. They might give lip service and say He is their 'king' but in the end they really don't give Him much thought. More reverence is given to the gb and the org at large.

 +2 / -0
carla
carla 5 hours ago

I forgot to add that the article completely left out the shunning, jc's, blood, pedophilia, no voting, no YMCA, etc....
Last Sunday's wt about shunning would be perfect to educate the public about the reality of jw's.

 +2 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 5 hours ago

Carla,
Other 'Christian' faiths, no all of course, do have these same issues you mentioned; so, it's not just a JW thing.
The piece is very neutral. Liked it.
DY
 +0 / -2
FayeDunaway
FayeDunaway 2 hours ago

I just want to hear any of you who are undercover but active JW's say 'Jesus is Lord' in a comment or a talk and see what happens.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

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Reference point
by Lostandfound 4 hours ago 1 Replies latest 4 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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Lostandfound
Lostandfound 4 hours ago
For decades I had a library of bound volumes to refer to. Is present method of publishing reference proof? Not easy to check some point by use of index, although Video material has no half life is it easier for WT to change tracks?
 
OneEyedJoe
OneEyedJoe 4 hours ago
Yeah, I think that's one thing they're really loving about the switch to everything being electronic. They can (and frequently do) change articles without providing any notice that a change was made. If you read much news online, you'll often note that at the top or bottom of the article it mentions some change that was made after its initial release, often something as minor as a single word altered. In the cult, they never do this even when completely removing sections or changing the meaning significantly. It's completely dishonest to omit noting when changes to the articles have been made.
 

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The Egyptian god Thoth smarter then Jehovah?
by Crazyguy 2 hours ago 0 Replies latest 2 hours ago   watchtower bible
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Crazyguy
Crazyguy 2 hours ago
We can tell by the old testament and other writings that the Jews and Israelites used a lunar calendar. Thier neighbor to the east eventually switched away from a lunar to a solar calendar. Experts don't know exactly when but the Egyptians watching the star Sirius were able to make the change as early as 2700 BC or possibly as late as about 1100 BC. They the Egyptians gave the credit to thier god of knowledge Thoth. Now on the other hand the Israelites which supposedly lived in Egypt for a few hundred year never found out about this calendar and Moses who was supposedly taught all the ways of Egypt also didn't seem to know. What about Jehovah, why would he not tell his people about this more accurate way of keeping time? Maybe he's not as smart as the god Thoth. What about the new testament, during the time of Jesus they still seem to be stuck on the lunar calendar even though the Romans had already switched? Jesus told the writer of revelations he would return very soon five times in the last chapter. Maybe why he hasn't shown is because he and his father have gotten thier calendars mixed up.
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Crazyguy
The Egyptian god Thoth smarter then Jehovah?
by Crazyguy in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 2 hours ago
we can tell by the old testament and other writings that the jews and israelites used a lunar calendar.

thier neighbor to the east eventually switched away from a lunar to a solar calendar.

experts don't know exactly when but the egyptians watching the star sirius were able to make the change as early as 2700 bc or possibly as late as about 1100 bc.

Lostandfound
1
Reference point
by Lostandfound in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 4 hours ago
for decades i had a library of bound volumes to refer to.

is present method of publishing reference proof?

not easy to check some point by use of index, although video material has no half life is it easier for wt to change tracks?

OneEyedJoe
4 hours ago
Sugar Shane
5
"How JWs differ from other Christians:" now on Google News
by Sugar Shane in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 6 hours ago
please post some comments on this news-site!

it's not a bad piece of journalism, but there are definitely some gaps that need to be filled.

the pro-jw apologists have already started posting on it!

carla
Doubtfully Yours
FayeDunaway
2 hours ago
Dreamerdude
9
JWTV May Broadcast is up. hosted by an old burnt hot dog
by Dreamerdude in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 14 hours ago
what's up with jw parents taking their minor children to such desolate places?

like the english family that took their little kids to the jungles of ecuador, and the australians that took their little ones to norfolk island where hardly anyone lives, and they are the only children in a congregation of 11 publishers?

is this a new form of child abuse?

dubstepped
Dreamerdude
sir82
2 hours ago
Doug Mason
13
Why did Jehovah want to kill Moses?
by Doug Mason in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 19 hours ago
on the way, at a place where they spent the night, the lord met him and tried to kill him.

but zipporah took a flint and cut off her son's foreskin, and touched moses' feet with it, and said, "truly you are a bridegroom of blood to me!

it was then she said, "a bridegroom of blood by circumcision.

TheOldHippie
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3 hours ago
GrreatTeacher
10
Share your home remedies for congestion and earache...please?
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the extraordinarily high pollen count has finally done me in.

i started with head congestion and coughing on friday and have steadily felt worse.

i now have an earache and a heavy feeling in my chest.. yes, i do have a doctor's appointment for tomorrow, as i'm sure the advice would be!

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doofdaddy
14 hours ago
Dreamerdude
11
Where does WT get their money?
by Dreamerdude in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 20 hours ago
i assume they get most of it from cash donations and assets left in wills.

there may also be some income from invested assets.

i guess they get a lot of money from old jws who die childless or with only df'd kids.geographically i assume they get it mostly from a few countries that have many publishers and strong economies.

Dreamerdude
Dreamerdude
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greenhornet
3
Found this on a Christian science info web site
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 a day ago
did i see this picture on old watchtower literature?

sparky1
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jaydee
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Terry
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JEHOVAH's Witnesses Historic BOONDOGGLE
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 » Scandals & Coverups
 a day ago
matthew 24:14 and this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.. ________________.

north americaninformal.

noun.

Vanderhoven7
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17 hours ago
dbq407
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After yesterdays shunning watchtower article
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matthew 6:15 are jesus' own words on how to deal with a sinner.

15 “if your brother or sister[b] sins,[c] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you.

if they listen to you, you have won them over.

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