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The Friday Column: Leave no man behind →
Why Watchtower should be ashamed of its new homophobic child propaganda cartoon
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Posted on May 3, 2016
In the new cartoon, Sophia's mum teaches her how to be judgmental and bigoted
In the new cartoon, Sophia’s mum teaches her how to be judgmental and bigoted
It was in the summer 2012 that Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world were first introduced to Caleb and Sophia, the Governing Body’s new animated poster kids.
Their first cartoon adventures, which were distributed in DVDs at conventions and on the organization’s JW.org website, caused outrage even among many non-JWs. Watchtower’s blatant attempts to indoctrinate children using fear and paranoia created a wave of dismay that will have gone largely unnoticed by most ordinary JWs.
Since they first burst on to our screens, Caleb and Sophia have been taught by their troubled parents that Jehovah is pedantic enough to hate certain kinds of plastic action figures, that he wants kids to give their ice cream money to Watchtower, and that failing to pay sufficient attention at kingdom hall meetings can carry the death penalty.
But Watchtower apparently isn’t done with stripping JW kids of all innocence and individuality. Now the Governing Body wants them to challenge any classmates with gay or lesbian parents, and remind them that if mommy and mommy (or daddy and daddy) don’t change their ways they will lose their tickets to paradise.
It’s hard to know where to start in verbalizing one’s revulsion at the proud ignorance and homophobia on open display in this CGI monstrosity, but I will do my best.
Firstly, Sophia’s bewilderingly-orange mother manipulates her daughter with a metaphor that entirely misrepresents both homosexuality and Watchtower’s views regarding it. Sophia is asked to picture a man traveling with a bag, the contents of which trigger the airport security systems because he is carrying a prohibited item.
Homosexuality is explained as being the forbidden item the man must surrender before being allowed to travel on to his desired destination: paradise earth.
The video presents a misleading metaphor that misrepresents both homosexuality and Watchtower's teachings about what awaits homosexuals
The video presents a misleading metaphor that misrepresents both homosexuality and Watchtower’s teachings about what awaits homosexuals
Anybody remotely in tune with reality understands that homosexuality is not a “choice,” as so often portrayed by Christian fundamentalists. Straight people are born straight, and gay people are born gay. Just as it would be outrageous to ask a straight person to start being gay, it is impossible to expect a gay person to live a lie and stop being who they are. And yet this is what fanatics like Watchtower demand of them.
Secondly, the metaphor implies that if the traveler chooses against surrendering the forbidden item, the worst that will happen is that his ticket will be cancelled and he will be forced to browse the duty free before hailing a cab and making his way back to the hotel. But that is not how it works according to Jehovah’s Witness teachings.
If the metaphor were accurately and fully followed through, we would see the traveller being bundled away by security and thrown into a 1940s cattle cart, along with all others deemed undesirable by the Governing Body, before being dispatched to the great extermination camp of Armageddon.
This is not a case of “follow us, or don’t fly,” this is a case of “follow us, or die.”
But this doomsday aspect of Jehovah’s Witness theology is so repugnant to most ordinary people that Watchtower must do its best to obfuscate it wherever possible.
Even most JWs you may encounter on the street, if pressed on the matter, will deny that literally billions of people, including children, are in line for mass slaughter if their hopes and expectations come to fruition. Their continued state of subservience to their religion depends on them not thinking things through to their fullest, most grisly conclusion.
All that deception and mischaracterization aside, arguably the most repugnant and disturbing aspect of this vile cartoon is that it sets out to recruit JW children to impose the organization’s homophobic bigotry on any classmates who happen to have gay or lesbian parents.
When I was growing up as a JW I recall being indoctrinated into believing that homosexuality was to be condemned. But I don’t remember once being told to actively seek out homosexuals, or children of homosexuals, to badger them with my beliefs. All that, apparently, has now changed. Watchtower has thrown its hat in with all the other sickly Christian evangelicals whose crusade is to stamp out homosexuality wherever it surfaces.
If you want to see what the end game is of preaching hate in this way, you need only watch the documentary “God Loves Uganda,” which is currently running on Netflix. It shows how U.S. evangelicals have taken a loathsome message that has zero credibility in their homeland, and cynically flooded Uganda with it – a country whose populace have limited access to education and are therefore easy pickings for those who spew ignorance and bigotry.
And before I am accused of trying to persuade people towards atheism by making this film recommendation, I should point out that two heroes of the film are Reverend Kaoma and Bishop Senyonjo. By the end of the film, I wanted to reach into my screen and hug them both.
Despite being Christians they could plainly see the real danger posed by evangelical homophobic fanaticism, and were doing their best in the face of unspeakable brutality to urge love, respect and tolerance.
Now it seems Watchtower, having already embraced televangelism, are also now quite happy to count themselves among the small-minded homophobic hate-mongers who stain our society. And rather than lead the hateful charge themselves, the likes of Tony Morris and his Governing Body cronies are content to hide behind a newly-formed army of school-age foot-soldiers who will take the heat for them.
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Further reading…
◾Metro article
◾Independent article
◾Inquisitr article
◾The Friendly Atheist article
◾Rawstory article
◾Complex article
◾Wetpaint article
◾Pink News article
◾Wonkette article
◾Gaystarnews article
◾SDGLN.com article
◾Same Same article
◾Newnownext article
◾The Daily Dot article
◾The Stranger article
◾The Gaily Grind article
◾Dangerous Minds article
◾TheNewCivilRightsMovement.com article
◾Progressive Secular Humanist article
◾JoeMyGod.com article
◾Watchtower’s New “Toy Story” – What Parents Need to Know
◾Sparlock a year later: Non-JWs in uproar on YouTube
◾Cough up kids! Watchtower needs your ice cream money
◾“Pay attention or die” – A disturbing glimpse of JW child indoctrination at work
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← News Bulletin: Secret Watchtower documents once again demanded in new US court case.
The Friday Column: Leave no man behind →
181 Responses to Why Watchtower should be ashamed of its new homophobic child propaganda cartoon
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MARS says:
May 3, 2016 at 10:47 am
The grapevine. They are also planning to do a Celeb story regarding former “associates” , how Celeb asks Dad why can’t he play with his friends anymore – its about children shunning children of ex members aka apostates. Its in the works.
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Covert Fade says:
May 3, 2016 at 10:53 am
I hope they bring that out soon.
Because that will be forwarded ASAP to all of the Government and legal investigations going on around the world into the JW’s.
I love it when Watchtower hands it’s foes a fully loaded Uzi…
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yawn says:
May 3, 2016 at 11:22 am
Are they just poking the bear here by making this, and the rumored one about shunning, so they can scream PERSECUTION when gov’t agencies and others call them out on their crap?
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yawn says:
May 3, 2016 at 10:48 am
In addition to the ridiculous message, how sick is it to implant in Sophia’s mind that she is now RESPONSIBLE to some degree for whether her friend and her family survive Armageddon.
That’s a lot of pressure to put on a kid, and will likely cause her much anguish for no good reason (as those of us raised JW likely know).
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karl says:
May 4, 2016 at 7:31 am
This is par for the course for the cult. I remember as a kid becoming a publisher in large part because I thought I’d be killed as punishment for failing to convert someone and “forcing” god to kill them too. Pretty messed up to be thinking things like that at 11.
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alanv says:
May 3, 2016 at 11:05 am
The more of these stupid children’s videos there are, the bigger the hole they are digging for themselves. Authorities the world over will see Watchtower for what it is.
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BC says:
May 3, 2016 at 11:16 am
Dear Lloyd, congratulations for yours fantastic posts!
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Dr Strabismus of Utrecht says:
May 3, 2016 at 11:31 am
“My mother made me a homosexual”.
“Really? If I get her the wool, will she make me one, too?”
Do the Governing Body and Sophia’s mother really think homosexuality is catching? 😉
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Kay says:
May 4, 2016 at 3:45 am
Yes. These are people who are attracted to the same gender, yet repress those feelings. They think everyone is secretly doing the same thing. So if homosexuality becomes more acceptable they think we will all ditch our opposite sex partners for new gay relationships.
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
May 4, 2016 at 8:27 am
*** w86 1/1 p. 13 par. 12 Days Like “the Days of Noah” ***
Shocking as it is, even some who have been prominent in Jehovah’s organization have succumbed to immoral practices, including homosexuality, wife swapping, and child molesting. It is to be noted, also, that during the past year, 36,638 individuals had to be disfellowshipped from the Christian congregation, the greater number of them for practicing immorality. Jehovah’s organization must be kept clean!
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Dr Strabismus of Utrecht says:
May 4, 2016 at 12:56 pm
Gosh! 😉
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Dr Strabismus of Utrecht says:
May 4, 2016 at 12:59 pm
Yet another example of “I’m not having any fun, so nobody else should” misery-guts syndrome…
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Riley says:
May 3, 2016 at 11:31 am
Great video Lloyd !
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WideAwake says:
May 3, 2016 at 11:33 am
Thank you Lloyd for the well written article.
The truly sad part is how intolerance and a lack of compassion and understanding is such an intrinsic part of this cruel and controlling religion.
To use cartoons to poison the minds of young, innocent vulnerable children is despicable.
As you have stated, homosexuality by and large is not a choice.
My JW cousin was a homosexual. Sadly he could not come to terms with the self-hatred and despair he lived with daily and committed suicide.
The Watchtower might as well have put the gun to his head.
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Doc Obvious says:
May 3, 2016 at 11:39 am
Anything that Jehovah does not approve of will not be able to go to paradise.
Let me think of different items that Jehovah does not approve of.
Well, here is a list:
1. A false tongue, lying.
2. Being deceitful.
3. Watchtower covering up pedophile cases.
4. Watchtower not obeying the superior authorities when being asked for Child Sexual Abuse files.
5. Child kidnapping.
6. 1,006 cases of child abuse in Australia.
7. Watchtower coveting people’s money.
8. Jehovah God does not want pedophiles in paradise.
9. Not taking care of items that are in their power to do so.
10. Not being truthful about their financial situation.
11. Threatening people into submission.
There is more. If anyone has more items please add.
Well, I guess Watchtower will not be able to go to paradise either.
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Sarah says:
May 4, 2016 at 3:00 am
Add to your list:
Writing secret rules in 90 secret letters to elders
Said rules breach human rights
Said rules breach Bible principles
Said rules contradict public rules in WT mags
Said rules make elders act against law.
Etc.
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Lester Kite says:
May 3, 2016 at 11:51 am
they’ve hit a new low, but will suffer the consequences of it like they have with all the other releases
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Will says:
May 3, 2016 at 12:20 pm
Can you imagine if Sophia actually witnesses to her classmate about the “wrongness” of homosexuality? Let’s see: Sophia tells her classmates that her moms need to break up, so now the moms will have decide who keeps the kid. A family will be shattered, but that’s OK, they’ll being in paradise. What’s really going happen— Sophia’s classmate will tell her mom all the awful things Sophia said, including how God’s going to kill them. The moms will be furious, storm the school and demand to speak with Sophia’s horrible parents. The moms will likely get loud and then Sophia’s family will be at a convention talking about being persecuted for Jehovah and the speaker will tell everyone what a great example they are. This will be followed by a thunderous applause.
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Markie says:
May 3, 2016 at 12:51 pm
I guess you didn’t notice but the mother encouraged her to mention paradise, the resurrection and the animals.
Wonder why they didn’t use to fathers.
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ThePenthouseExperience says:
May 3, 2016 at 8:26 pm
The fathers are on the “down-low” and probably “tricking” during the video storyboard and production.
That’s where all this “conversion” effort will lead–some kinky, kinky judicial meetings in the future.
So, the gay fellow had to leave behind his “Louis Vuitton” overnight bag to get into Paradise? I assume he got to keep the Rolex and the Armani suits?
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Searcher says:
May 4, 2016 at 9:18 am
Yeah! He had his ‘tight pants’ in the overnight bag!
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Doc Obvious says:
May 3, 2016 at 12:57 pm
So, Sophia calls into question the girl’s two mommies’ sexual orientation. The girl with the two mommies cries home and discusses the incident with the two mommies. The mommies tell the daughter to gang up on Sophia.
The next day Sophia gets in a fight with the girl with two mommies and gets sent to the principal’s office. The principal wants to know what is going on and finds that Sophia is not accepting of people for who they are. The Principal calls Sophia’s parents.
The Principal asks Sophia’s parents how Sophia became so opinionated. The Principal finds out that Sophia’s parents also discriminate based on sexual orientation. Weeks go by. The two mommies sue Sophia’s parents for discrimination and now appear in court.
The judge hears both sides and orders that Sophia and Sophia’s parents need sensitivity training and to do community service in the LGBT community. The judge states how flawed the Watchtower is and that their teachings are not good for the community.
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ThePenthouseExperience says:
May 3, 2016 at 8:41 pm
While lesbians are a bit testosterone-endowed, I doubt the violence will be pushed from their side. The lesbian couple will approach the Principal or Teacher at the local welcoming church meeting and discuss the issue. There will be a call to the JW parents who will respond with arrogance and presumptive indignation assuming their rightness; the Principal will explain that she has no choice but to suspend the student based on bullying policies since Sophia has created a hostile learning environment.
A similar incident happened when Sophia’s dad was fired for creating a hostile work environment by preaching toward a transgender and ignoring supervisor reprimand and preaching at an openly gay coworker.
Sophia’s mom has begun experiencing anxiety and panic attacks due to mounting financial concerns and now this incident with the daughter has her experiencing a “persecution complex” with her anxiety.
When Sophia mom approached the elders with her issues of anxiety, they recommended that she pray, focus more on ministry, and meditate more on the literature (electronic books). She’s finding herself needing more than the two pain pills prescribed for a back pain she has developed from scrubbing the floors on her knees. It seems to help with the anxiety as well–at least she can make it through the day, now.
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Markie says:
May 3, 2016 at 12:47 pm
I do think that video is ridiculous but I am not sure if it is scientifically proven if people are born gay or not. I think it maybe a confluence of many things.
A video like this makes me wonder what Sanderson thinks. I would venture a guess and say he is probably gay (not that there is anything wrong with it). I could just imagine all the hot pioneer sisters that threw themselves at him and he is still single.
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Winston Smith says:
May 3, 2016 at 1:12 pm
Based on my observations, being born gay or straight is not so black and white. It seems there is a range of sexual orientation between gay and straight and we are all born somewhere in that range. Then our life experiences help to determine which way we lean based on our born-in predisposition. Some people are born hardcore straight others hardcore gay. Some are in between.
So it’s not necessarily nature OR nurture. It’s nature AND nurture that determine our sexual orientation. It is still beyond our control and thus not something we should use as reason to hate others.
WS
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Imgonaburn says:
May 3, 2016 at 2:53 pm
My son is gay despite being ‘nurtured’ by his jw upbringing otherwise. He has Aspergers and we always (at the time) hoped as jw parents that his effeminate side was attributable to his Asd. I would often be at appointments with medical professionals where this side of his character would be discussed. I was prepared for the possibility that my son would be gay. I would say to Camhs that if he is gay or trans or whatever that I would support him regardless. Long story short. When I realised that he IS gay I quit the religion.
I personally don’t think nurture plays much of a role in determining a persons sexuality. It’s not a choice. You are what you are.
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Winston Smith says:
May 3, 2016 at 3:39 pm
I certainly never said or meant to imply that it was a choice. And let’s face it, jw “nurturing” is anything but that. When psychologists talk about nurture they are not necessarily talking about our upbringing, but the sum total of the experiences that influence our behavior. That’s the essence of the nature vs nurture debate that psychologists have been having for over 100 years.
When I talk about varying degrees of sexual orientation, imagine a gauge similar to a speedometer. On the far left you have totally homosexual and on the far right you have totally heterosexual. Most of us are probably born at one extreme or the other, but some fall in the middle. The closer you are to the middle the more your experiences may play a role in your final sexual orientation. At the extremes you are less likely to be influenced by your experiences. This model helps explain how some men or woman may have homosexual or heterosexual experiences at some point during youth, but then realize that the opposite orientation is a better fit. It doesn’t mean that it’s a choice. It’s simply a result of nature combined with nurture.
WS
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Imgonaburn says:
May 3, 2016 at 4:49 pm
I apologise if my post sounded like I was attacking you. I was thought nurturing was to do with how we raise our children. I do understand what you are saying winston. thank you for explaining more about the nurture slant. I’ve just had an interesting conversation with my son. Even though he is gay and I’m straight we both agree that we find the female form more attractive lol. So maybe that sort of adds weight to what you are saying.
I found the video very disturbing though and I’m glad I’m out of the jw mindset now. I’ve shared it on FB. I don’t have jw friends on FB and some of my ‘worldy’ friends have commented on the video saying how disgusting it is.
The society are getting it wrong on so many levels. If they think that this is acceptable then they are dillusional. It needs to be shared online and given enough rope they will surely hang themselves?
apostate shamostate says:
May 3, 2016 at 1:57 pm
I think the point Lloyd is making that being gay is not a choice. If it were then people who are gay in countries that stone gay people would probably choose to be straight. They don’t choose that, because being gay is not a choice.
I never decided to be straight, I was born straight, I have never thought anything different and luckily for me that is the socially acceptable norm in society. It is time gay, straight, transgender, asexual, pan-sexual etc etc were all considered socially acceptable norms and we just started minding our own business, stop being so interested in the sex lives of other people and were just nice to everyone.
Sorry, rant over. It’s been a long and stressful day!
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JBob says:
May 3, 2016 at 9:17 pm
I think we can get obsessed on whether it is innate or a preference and lose sight of the impact the Watchtower’s approach has on families. Noting that this video doesn’t bridge, or introduce, what happens when this lesbian couple (or one partner) decides to do things “Jehovah’s way” and creates an emotional mess of her life, her partner’s, her daughter’s, (assuming it is biological) and the father(s, if gay couple shared), then the stigma that will follow her as she strives to fit into JW community.
(And, here is where the imbalance comes, as an outsider probably has a better chance of being “welcomed” than a child of current JW parents. As we learned last year, androgynous boys and girls are not fully embraced and given full access to JW privileges and rites.)
Every move she mimics to become “straight” being scrutinized, then herself scrutinizing own mannerisms, speech and whether she’s being “submissive” instead of the relative egalitarian lesbian partnership she once had.
Oh, the potlucks will be held–maybe once every three months, but certainly no charitable fund-raisers, or community action events, unless we count crafting trinkets for the international convention delegates. Maybe if you land in the right congregation, you’ll see the unconditional love and caring showed by LGBT community during the HIV/AIDS crisis of the late 80’s and early 90’s, but if it’s an affliction that was caught while “unbecoming of a JW”–eh, reaping what you sow [puts covered dish and vacuum back in cupboard].
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Linda Cebrian says:
May 3, 2016 at 9:19 pm
@markie: The director of the Human Genome Project has stated that sexuality is NOT hardwired. No one is born with a “sexual orientation.” That term is artificial jargon- constructed by homoerotic activists as part of the gay “rights” lexicon.
We are all born with a biological sex according to our chromosomal makeup: XY=male; XX=female. Here is where science confirms the Bible
(cf. Gen 1:27; Mt 19:5; Gal 3:28).
Homosexuality is learned behavior and anything that is learned can be unlearned, which explains the reality of ex-gays who have been able to renounce/overcome their unwanted same-sex attractions. Unfortunately, cultural supports for this truth are lacking, since political correctness is the order of the day. The gay lobby (aka Big Sodomy) is well-funded and well-connected to the media, the judiciary, academe and politics.
For more on the ex-gay movement, please google NARTH, the Restored Hope Network and/or Transforming Congregations.
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apostate shamostate says:
May 4, 2016 at 12:47 am
You are joking??? Seriously this is very offensive. Hundreds of people have been killed because of their sexual identities and you are saying this is a choice!!!!!!
When did you choose to be straight?
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Chris says:
May 4, 2016 at 1:13 am
“We are all born with a biological sex according to our chromosomal makeup: XY=male; XX=female. Here is where science confirms the Bible
(cf. Gen 1:27; Mt 19:5; Gal 3:28).”
This is actually not true. There is much more to biological sex in humans and other mammals than male and female, and I am not talking about transgender people or gender identity. For your edification, please read the following:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XYY_syndrome
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Klinefelter_XXY
“Homosexuality is learned behavior and anything that is learned can be unlearned, which explains the reality of ex-gays who have been able to renounce/overcome their unwanted same-sex attractions.”
You are also incorrect about this. The scientific consensus is that the opposite is true, and that it is not a learned behavior, just as heterosexuality is not a learned behavior. And this isn’t because of the mythical power of “Big Sodomy” either, it is because this is where the evidence points.
In fact, the initial assumption of the first scientists who studied this was similar to your view now. The scientific consensus of the 1950s (when sexuality started to really be studied) and the 1960s was that homosexuality was a learned behavior too, and that it could be cured. Based on their initial assumptions, scientists set out to prove that this was the case. However, study after study has demonstrated just the opposite. Now, let me explain to you why scientists understand this to be the case.
The first clue that sexual orientation wasn’t a choice came from just talking to gay people. Early surveys of homosexual people found that the vast majority of them (90% and up) felt as if they had no control over their sexual orientation. However, I am sure you will reject this because these are the gay people themselves telling you how they feel. And of course, this alone isn’t enough evidence, but it marked the beginning of scientists considering and studying a non-illness model of homosexuality.
The real nail in the coffin for the hypothesis that homosexuality is a learned behavior, however, comes from the study of genetics. To date, countless studies have found a genetic link to homosexuality, and none have not. For example, in a 1991 twin study, one of the first twin studies to look at homosexuality, they found a high concordance rate (the rate that both twins have a given trait) for homosexuality among twins. From the abstract, “52% (29/56) of monozygotic cotwins [identical twins], 22% (12/54) of dizygotic cotwins [fraternal twins], and 11% (6/57) of adoptive brothers were homosexual. Heritabilities were substantial under a wide range of assumptions about the population base rate of homosexuality and ascertainment bias” (http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=495588%20). The sample size was small, but it showed a clear connection between genes and homosexuality. More study was definitely warranted, but, why should it be the case that men are much more likely to be gay if they have a gay identical twin, if not because male homosexuality is partly caused by genetics? And no, it is not true that if some trait has a genetic cause, then that trait should occur 100% of the time in identical twins. For example, the concordance rate of schizophrenia in identical twins is between 10% and 60% depending on if the twins shared the same placenta (http://schizophreniabulletin.oxfordjournals.org/content/21/3/357.short). Likewise, for left-handedness, the concordance rate in identical twins is around 75% to 80% (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3900763/#B11). And, I am certain you do not think people “choose” to be schizophrenic or left-handed, do you? You would rightly think that someone was rather ignorant if they said that schizophrenia is a learned behavior.
In a somewhat more recent twin study (2000), with a large, nationally representative sample, they found the same thing as the 1991 study, but with a slightly lower concordance rate of 31.6% for identical twins. From the study, “these results suggest that genetic factors may provide an important influence on sexual orientation” (pg. 1845, http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/pdf/10.1176/appi.ajp.157.11.1843). If your hypothesis was correct, we would expect that for identical twins, if one twin is gay, the other twin would only be gay at the same rate as the population (~3%), but this is not what we find. And you may rebut this by saying that perhaps the higher rate among twins is due to the gay twin influencing or “recruiting” the other one to be gay. But, if this was the case, then we would expect the higher concordance rate to be roughly the same for fraternal twins, who do not share the exact same DNA, and identical twins, who do, since we would expect a roughly equivalent number of gay fraternal twins to succeed in “recruiting” their “straight” sibling. Of course, we do not see that. In fact, we see that fraternal twins have a lower concordance rate than identical twins, 13.3% compared to 31.6%. Why should it be the case that the more DNA twins have in common, the higher the concordance rate if genetics played no role in determining sexual orientation?
In addition to twin studies, and genetics, it was been found that the more older brothers a boy has, the more likely it is that he will be gay. From the abstract of a study on fraternal birth order and its effect on male homosexuality, “In men, sexual orientation correlates with an individual’s number of older brothers, each additional older brother increasing the odds of homosexuality by approximately 33%” (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0018506X01916812). Why would having more older brothers increase the chances of a male being gay? According to you, I suppose, people with more older brothers just coincidentally learn to be gay more often. According to reality, however, it is hypothesized that each additional brother born, makes more changes to the mother’s womb. These changes effect the levels of certain hormones and chemicals that are exposed to the future developing fetuses. The result is that future male fetuses are more likely to develop a homosexual sexual orientation.
The fact of the matter is that nobody chooses to be gay, straight, or bisexual, and nobody has any significant ability to change their sexual orientation, whether through prayer or therapy. Of course, this post is long enough already, and I do not have the time to relay to you the scientific studies on ex-gay therapy, like I did for the causes of homosexuality in humans. But very briefly, the studies show that ex-gay “therapy” is ineffective, and can actually be extremely harmful. It is, in a great sense, torture to beat into a gay child’s mind that they are sick and need to be healed, especially since they have no way of changing their sexual feelings. You set them up for failure, and then shun them when they fail. It is despicable, and has directly caused suicide.
I hope that you use the information I just taught you, and don’t just ignore it. Of course you have the right to believe whatever you want, but you should really change your beliefs about homosexuality so that they match the best available evidence, particularly since the types of incorrect beliefs you hold about gay people often result in the poor treatment of those people. I am sure you would say that you “love” gay people, but when you believe demonstrably untrue things about how they become gay and if they can stop being gay, then you clearly don’t love them enough to take the time to understand them.
Regards! Hope you have a nice day.
Reply
MattH says:
May 4, 2016 at 2:21 am
Thanks, I did do some searching as a result of reading your comment and I found this quote from Francis Collins, the director of the Human Genome Project:
“…indicating that sexual orientation is genetically influenced but not hardwired by DNA, and that whatever genes are involved represent predispostions, not predeterminations.”
Not so black and white as you state is it?
Then there is a further quote from him:
“The words quoted by NARTH all come from the appendix to my book “The Language of God” (pp.260-263), but have been juxtaposed in a way that suggests a somewhat different conclusion that I intended. I would urge anyone who is concerned about the meaning to refer back to the original text.”
Google. It’s a powerful tool for exposing misinformation.
(I searched for: director of human genome project sexuality not hard wired.)
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Victor says:
May 4, 2016 at 5:26 am
chromosomes determine whether or not you have an excrescence between the legs, not your sexual orientation. it is sad to see so much bigotry in 2016.
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Kaytee says:
May 4, 2016 at 6:39 am
Wrong wrong wrong! I did a research paper my first year of college trying to prove to myself that JW teachings on LGBTQ were right; instead, my research proved that they are unambiguously dead wrong* (no wonder they don’t want believers getting an education). You obviously don’t know the science you claim to know: homosexuality has been mapped to certain genes and epigenetic variations—proof that it’s not a “learned behavior.” To believe otherwise is nothing less than bigotry!
*As just one example of what my research found: transgender girls as young as toddlerhood have been caught trying to remove their male genetalia. If they weren’t born transgender, they wouldn’t care what’s between their legs until puberty at the earliest.
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Kaytee says:
May 4, 2016 at 6:43 am
Oh, and another thing: gay repatriation therapy has been almost universally illegalized in the United States as well as in many other developed countries. Why? Because it is unethical and all too often leads to suicide. In my view, anyone who contributes to the vilification of LGBTQ people after knowing the facts has blood on their hands.
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Kaytee says:
May 4, 2016 at 6:53 am
Reading my above comment, I realize I misspoke: To clarify, gay conversion or *reparative* therapy (stupid malapropism) is not banned for adults in most places, but for children. Additionally, most psychologists will not perform such therapy even on adults, because it’s considered unethical.
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Hip hip hooray I'm an ex says:
May 4, 2016 at 6:49 am
Francis Collins, the head of the Human Genome project, is an evangelical Christian.
Do you think that might’ve slanted his viewpoint on homosexuality’s inheritedness?
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dee2 says:
May 4, 2016 at 6:57 am
@ Linda Cebrian,
Here’s a thought on Genesis 1:27:
GOD IS INVISIBLE but he made man in his “Image.” What does an invisible image look like?
Man was made from (depending on translation) dust, clay, or mud. Logically, the 1st human was mud in the invisible image of God.
All humans have 46 chromosomes but sex is determined by only 2 of them X and Y.
Males have one X and one Y. Females have 2 X’s.
Eve was constructed from Adam’s DNA (using his rib)
Eve had to be a clone of Adam. If God duplicated Adam’s X chromosome to make 2 X’s Even would be Female, but still related in every way to Adam. Why?
She would share the other 44 chromosomes with him. This would make her a Fraternal Twin.
ADAM married his sister!
OR
ADAM married his clone.
But wait!
Where in the Bible do we find the “wedding ceremony” of Adam and Eve?
Eve is called his “wife” but in what sense could a brother and sister marry and not produce idiots for children?
FUNDAMENTALISTS say: “God made Adam and Eve–not Adam and STEVE.”
However, we know that any sample of DNA from a person is specific to that person and does not change. That fact is helping to solve crimes, establish paternity and are getting people released from death row. Since the source material came from a dude, Adam, then the sample would be an exact genetic match for Adam.
Gulp!
That means that God did make Adam and STEVE after all!
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dee2 says:
May 4, 2016 at 1:42 pm
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5634582229549056/maybe-god-did-make-adam-steve-after-all
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dee2 says:
May 4, 2016 at 9:37 am
@Linda Cebrian,
“We are all born with a biological sex according to our chromosomal makeup: XY=male; XX=female. Here is where science confirms the Bible
(cf. Gen 1:27; Mt 19:5; Gal 3:28).”
The following article is of interest:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/think-gender-comes-down-to-x-and-y-chromosomes-think-again/article24811543/:
Think gender comes down to X and Y chromosomes? Think again
PETER MCKNIGHT
Special to The Globe and Mail
Thursday, Jun. 04, 2015
Peter McKnight is an adjunct professor in the School of Criminology at Simon Fraser University.
“So which washroom is Caitlyn Jenner supposed to use? If you haven’t been keeping up with the Kardashians, you probably haven’t heard that Caitlyn is the name former Olympian and Kardashian patriarch Bruce Jenner has given herself.
And if you haven’t been keeping up with transgender issues, you probably haven’t heard that these things always come down to washrooms. Those who oppose all matters transgender inevitably get their knickers in a knot about who belongs in which washroom.
Witness the Senate’s recent efforts to gut NDP MP Randall Garrison’s transgender rights bill by exempting washrooms from its purview. And witness Conservative Senator Donald Plett’s comments that “vulnerable women” need to be protected from “biological males” who might enter the women’s washroom.
For many people, biology defines sex, and sex is always a binary affair. Sure, postmodernists have been playing with the concept of gender for decades, but sex, well, sex is sacred, which means you’re either biologically male or female. But never both. Or neither.
But biology doesn’t work that way. Biological phenomena don’t necessarily fit into human-ordained binary categories. So while humans insist that you’re either male or female – that you have either XY or XX sex chromosomes – biology begs to differ.
For example, genetic men with Klinefelter syndrome possess an extra X chromosome (XXY) or more rarely, two or three extra Xs (XXXY, XXXXY); they typically produce low levels of testosterone, leading to less-developed masculine sexual characteristics and more-developed feminine characteristics than other men. In contrast, some men receive an extra Y chromosome (XYY) in the genetic lottery, and while they have been referred to as “supermales” that is more sensationalism than science.
Genetic women with Turner syndrome have only one X chromosome; they often display less-developed female sexual characteristics than other women. And people with a genetic mosaic possess XX chromosomes in some cells and XY in others. So how do we determine if they’re male or female? Hint: Don’t say that it depends on the chromosomal makeup of the majority of their cells, since women with more than 90 per cent XY genetic material have given birth.
Even if you get the “right” combination of sex chromosomes, it’s no guarantee that you’ll fit into the carefully circumscribed human definitions of male and female.
For example, genetic women (XX) with congenital adrenal hyperplasia produced unusually high levels of virilizing hormones in utero and develop stereotypically masculine sexual characteristics, including masculinized genitals.
Similarly, genetic men (XY) with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome don’t respond to male hormones and fail to develop masculine sexual characteristics. Most live their lives as women. Some historians suggest that Joan of Arc, Elizabeth I and Wallis Simpson all suffered from this syndrome.
So what’s the answer? There isn’t one, at least if we’re looking for the answer in biology. We must not fall back on biology. Rather, we must always remember that it is we, not biology, who decide who counts as male or female. And it is we who must take responsibility for our decisions.”
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Imgonaburn says:
May 5, 2016 at 10:18 am
How can a person who has been raised a jw ‘learn’ homosexuality.
Stop with all of your foolishness it’s most unbecoming.
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Outandabout says:
May 5, 2016 at 6:55 pm
Exactly! For anyone to say that homosexuality can be un-learned is to say that the likes of autism, bi-polar, schizophrenia etc, can also be un-learned. Imagine telling a paranoid schizophrenic to “snap the hell out of it”. To suggest that a person chooses to put themselves in a position of ridicule at best and death at worst is moronic. Any cases where somebody has renounced their gayness will have been for survival reasons only. I respect peoples views on this site, but people suggesting homosexuality is a learned thing are total and utter idiots who need to extract their heads from their butts!
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apostate shamostate says:
May 3, 2016 at 1:35 pm
Thank you for writing this Lloyd. This video made me so angry when I watched it this morning and I feel a little calmer reading your rational take on how evil this horrible cult is. I do think this video should be shared far and wide and sent to newspapers, politicians etc to make people aware of just how nasty and dangerous this sect is. I honestly believe they are one step away from killing their children with KoolAid or sending them to blow up cathedrals and instead of shouting ‘Allahu Akbar’ they will shout ‘JW.org!’
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DavidR says:
May 3, 2016 at 1:59 pm
Also Sophia, later Cain took his sister as his wife. So I hope you REALLY like your brother, cause you’re going to see a whole lot more of him.
Oh wait, we ignore that part? Oh okay.
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Will says:
May 3, 2016 at 2:33 pm
I just sent the Village Voice, here in NYC the link to the video from JW.org. This is awful and it needs to be put out there.
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Will says:
May 3, 2016 at 2:41 pm
And TV station WNBC. I said that with all the attention with Prince’s death and his embrace of the religion, it’s interesting how anti-gay witnesses and told them about the disturbing children’s video.
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Cherie says:
May 4, 2016 at 8:01 am
Yesss. I really hope the mainstream media picks up on this.
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Cherie says:
May 4, 2016 at 7:59 am
Good one, Will!
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Tara says:
May 3, 2016 at 2:53 pm
Already on fb. an ex witness posted it and it’s being shared. talk about nail in their own coffin shut. Good job WT 🙂
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jonathan says:
May 3, 2016 at 2:53 pm
Guys, as much as I do not condone JW doctrine, you do realize that any christian religion that takes the bible seriously will include homosexuality as a sinful practice, right? I dont understand why this is so surprising.
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yawn says:
May 3, 2016 at 3:16 pm
Right. And all of Lloyds rebuttals apply to them, too. He even brings this up in the video, when speaking of Uganda.
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Cobb says:
May 3, 2016 at 7:27 pm
I don’t think the point is that they don’t condone homosexuality. Even though there is nothing to approve or condone.. it simply is a fact of life. I think the point is that they are teaching little children to actively insult their peers and tell them that their parents are hated by god.
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markw says:
May 4, 2016 at 11:36 am
That’s the point, Cobb. Exactly!
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sally peterson says:
May 3, 2016 at 4:20 pm
Where does Jesus tell us to hate? I seem to recall Jesus telling us to love everyone, even our enemies and to pray for those persecuting us.”Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” Romans 13:10 Its a shame to see all this teaching of hatred.
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Caroline says:
May 3, 2016 at 4:53 pm
When I saw that cartoon I was repulsed by it too and I am so glad you did a video about it and an article. Thanks!!
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Tara says:
May 3, 2016 at 5:18 pm
can I please suggest that any parents out there contact your school and warn them of the video. For all the children’s sake, Jw or not. When my daughter was small she told her classmate in no uncertain term that Christmas was bad and evil…. you can imagine the fallout we had from that one. I was summoned by the head teacher etc etc. If one of the JW children tells a classmate about this video and elaborates, as they will, with help from mum and dad, there could be serious reprisals in the form of bullying. No child deserves that and most JW kids are little parrots. They will repeat word for word what they hear. Please, please contact your children’s teacher’s. Forewarned is forearmed.
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Jeffreycanning says:
May 3, 2016 at 5:26 pm
Homosexual people are born such, and therefore born in Gods image…Maybe God is gay…?
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Balcácer says:
May 3, 2016 at 6:11 pm
Can people do a sit in ? And tell that this organization that once again has failed-
!!
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Flying Gabriel says:
May 3, 2016 at 6:11 pm
They gave Sophia’s Mum nice perky breasts … to help the gay people.
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gary says:
May 3, 2016 at 11:50 pm
Has she?, I must have missed that
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Anonymous says:
May 3, 2016 at 6:37 pm
As a 23 year old closeted gay guy that’s still in the organization this infuriates me it shows how ignorant watchtower is. There is no way I can stop being gay. It’s so hard keeping a secret like this especially from Full Devouted JW parents and siblings. That little girl Sophia whatever her name is needs to shut the hell up and mind her own business. This video makes me sick portraying Homosexuality like its a
Freakin T Shirt like its something I can just take on and off. I don’t believe in the Bible anymore some of it may be historically accurate but more than half of it is made up bull. I’m trying really hard to keep my fake smile and greet at the Kingdom Hall, I love my parents very much and according to my parents they tell they love me unconditionally BUT telling them I’m gay would completely throw them off, they don’t even suspect asking me when I’m getting married constantly. Thank you Cedars for opening my eyes since 99% of JW don’t even know what’s going on inside the org and would deny it saying its Santans work. Sorry for my long Comment thanks to Watchtower I have no friends, no life and no career.
That is all
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Tara says:
May 3, 2016 at 6:48 pm
For what it’s worth, you have friends here. A brother in my ex hall is gay. He has never ‘come out’ and his mother will tell you that he is just a very ‘clean’ boy….. even elders and non witness people can see that he is gay but the poor lad just hides it. I don’t think you are in any way alone. I am glad you told us. It took extreme courage but I know you will not be judged here. You are among people who care about you, not what you are or what others define or perceive you to be. Heck, I’m nearly 50, shunned, divorced and have PTSD. But on here I feel I have found a group of people who except me for what I am and support me in my fading.
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Roman Castañeda says:
May 3, 2016 at 7:10 pm
Like many of us here, I wish my family would finally wake up from this indoctrination. But they cling on to the teachings much like we cling on to our beliefs.
I came out to my family recently and I understand where they are coming from, but I think it’s finally time I follow their advice and travel the world, or at least the American continent. It’s something I’ve always wanted to do.
Stepping away from them will take it’s toll, and I don’t feel right telling you to rush into anything. Just take your time, but don’t delay. This is your life you are talking about.
If you need someone to talk to, find me as ColorTheWindGreen on Kik. I’d be glad to be of service any way possible
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Cedars says:
May 4, 2016 at 12:20 am
I feel for your predicament. It sounds like you need to be extremely patient and figure out an exit strategy. I hope everything works out for you eventually, even though it will doubtless take lots of time and more than a few tears. The end result, being free from living a lie, will be worth it all.
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Will says:
May 4, 2016 at 6:55 am
I hope you someday find the courage to come out. You will need build a world outside the walls of the kingdom hall because you will be shunned if you intend to live how you feel. It’s very lonely for those who left, straight or gay. You seem to be a relatively young person, so you will need to do it before you get too old. You don’t want to feel you wasted your life away. Please do your research on how to minimize any emotional trauma. Best to you!!!
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Kaytee says:
May 4, 2016 at 7:19 am
It breaks my heart that you have to fear rejection from your parents, just over being who you are! It seems almost everyone here has either faced that reality, or will need to face it at some point. You’re not alone! Whatever you choose to do, I know I’m not the only one who would happily give an ex-JW young person a family to be part of.
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Markie says:
May 4, 2016 at 7:35 pm
Your only 23. Go to college and get a degree. Maybe your parents are more open minded then you think. If it ever comes down to a choice between my children and the organization, I would always choose my children. Your parents probably feel the same way.
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Claire Gorman says:
May 3, 2016 at 7:17 pm
My brother is gay. He tried to hide it but could deny his feelings no longer. He is not evil or insane. He would move the earth for anyone that needed help and wears his heart on his sleeve for his family. We love him and understand his orientation. The thought that this kind and loving man could be stripped of a reward in the next life due to a character trait that he did not choose does not sit well. I know we have a God of justice who would not take such action, despite what Watchtower propaganda would have you believe. We all know Caleb and Sophia are bull****. Just another Goebbels invention to keep the masses subserviant. High horse now vacated. Over and out. Peace to all readers.
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Winston Smith says:
May 3, 2016 at 7:58 pm
I am pretty certain that my brother in law is gay. He has never come out and denies it profusely, but he has been caught with gay porn enough times and the excuses he gives for it are pretty weak. He is now 50 and has never been able to live his own life. He has been trapped in this cult and victimized by their abuse. I feel sorry for him. He grew up in an extremely abusive household (his father was an elder and one of the most horrible abusers I have ever known).
WS
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Vincent Deporter says:
May 4, 2016 at 5:56 am
That is a horrible story. What a waste of life… My heart goes out to him. My fist goes out to his father.
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Sharon Christensen says:
May 3, 2016 at 9:00 pm
The other day, my husband and daughter were reading the Bible acct of where some were condemning a person for being adulterous…Jesus answer to them…if anyone of you is sinless…throw the first stone….appartly there was not a single one who was…so eventually they departed and left the person alone! Also, who does it say Jesus died for…what, if any stipulations? That ALL of you may be saved! Job said…before we were born, Jehovah knew our makeup…He is a Father of tender mercies, remembering …we are dust…We are all so fortunate to have Him to look out for us, He alone understands us, no religion has the right to pass judgement that would cause a person to feel unworthy of Gods love…to the point of taking ones own life. For with the judgement you are rendering….You will be judged….Jw.org…has two or more… sets of…weights…if you have $ for them, they approve of or turn a blind eye to all kinds if things….
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Average Joe says:
May 4, 2016 at 12:06 am
With regard your first Bible quote, the WTS have seen fit to remove that from their latest translation!!! Too much mercy being shown, more than likely!
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Winston Smith says:
May 4, 2016 at 12:56 pm
@AJ
I was likewise shocked when they eliminated that account from the “silver sword.” You’re probably right: too much mercy and not enough bigoted hatred along with self righteousness.
WS
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ClosetApostate says:
May 3, 2016 at 9:11 pm
Young children Caleb and Sophea’s age don’t have the comprehension adults have. My six year old nephew was asked if he knows what a demon is. He said, “A demon is a roller coaster ride at Great America Amusement Park.” And I laughed. Kid’s don’t fully understand things because they’re kids. Noone wanted to explain to him exactly what gays do. So he thinks the video is stupid. And he said so. Nobody wanted to explain it to him. Who on earth is so stupid that they made a video like that? HAHAHAHA. Oh my goodness they are getting dumber at the top. The shame is the harm they cause. That is terrible.
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
May 4, 2016 at 4:13 am
They know what they are doing…
*** g92 2/22 p. 5 When to Start and How Much to Say ***
Another time the child may ask: “How does the daddy’s seed get into the mommy?” You could say, respectfully: “You know how a boy is made. He has a penis. A mother has an opening in her body that the penis fits into, and the seed is planted.
Compare with…
*** fl chap. 9 p. 124 par. 19 Training Children from Infancy ***
Later the child may ask, ‘How does the father’s seed get into the mother?’ You may simply say: ‘You know how a boy is. He has a penis. The girl has an opening in her body that it fits into. The seed is planted
You just switch from “girl” to “mother”!
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
May 3, 2016 at 11:58 pm
Who thinks the Watchtower will never be ashamed of the homophobic child propaganda cartoon? I think the World does not understand the game and interests behind. The following is from the very publications of JWs…
*** w56 1/1 p. 6 Part 25—Expansion in Europe and Africa (1945-1955) ***
How have Jehovah’s witnesses coped with such a variety of European, Mohammedan and primitive pagan thinking?
We are all hit together… Europeans and “primitive pagans” in one basket, hit seriously! Empire rise and fall, time changes and people change! Yesterday’s allies are today’s enemies! I like to see how societies evolve!
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
May 3, 2016 at 11:59 pm
Sorry, the question is “Who thinks the Watchtower will be ashamed of the homophobic child propaganda cartoon?”
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ruthlee says:
May 4, 2016 at 12:30 am
This comment is for ironic purposes only. Can you not see that the only people that are going to populate jdub paradise is the clones of Sophia and Caleb. Anyone who deviates from that fitted profile will get dinged out of the ring before close of day. So out with all you apostates, critical thinkers, sexual deviants, educated ,fat, old, demented, special needs, annoying and generally anyone who does not fit the perfect template. Dare I include mud born, celtic cursed, and jonny foreigner , when their money and usefulness runs out. This is because Jesus only came for the smug saved hard working boasting number toting self appointed self anointed jw.orgers. Sorry jc (not the other one) But your blood is Not acceptable for such sinners, we in the 21thC call gay. You come short with these people because they are not welcome in the garden of earthly delights aka the spiritual paradise or any future one.If this cult survives then they will be left with their perfect clones of Caleb and Sophia and wont that be grand, nice little cardboard cutouts of a shadow of humanity that they can tweak at will. Ooooh no arguments , no diversity, no shunning, and eventually no conversation. Afterall when everyone looks acts and thinks the same there will be nothing to say . Maybe if that miracle happens before Armageddon , they might use their lazy eyes to read the Bible and actually get the point of what humans are and what they do and how we are here to help each other out, not into a box of conformity. Just my opinion. Ruthlee
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Daniel Roberts says:
May 4, 2016 at 1:30 am
Good comment. You forgot bald people. In the new order all will have nice thick luxurious hair. Only one style though. AND NO BEARDS ALLOWED.
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Holy Connoli says:
May 4, 2016 at 4:12 am
To Daniel Roberts: Don’t forget No sideburns below the ear lobe and No Goatees either. Only and “Elder Mustache” is approved, and of course No tight pants! lol
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Daniel Roberts says:
May 4, 2016 at 5:18 am
Too right. I believe all the above exclusions to paradise to be completely reasonable too…
Along with:
Women shalt not weareth two legged garments and shalt remember they are not giraffes.
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Idontknowhatodo says:
May 5, 2016 at 7:53 am
Nor will they be Princesses in the new world…..anybody catch that in the morning worship last month…..
dee2 says:
May 5, 2016 at 8:06 pm
“Nor will they be Princesses in the new world”
Apparently God has told the GB that the 144,000 will be only males.
Queen Elsa says:
May 4, 2016 at 1:39 am
Now I know why my daughter mentioned someone at school being gay!!! This really pisses me off…
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Daniel Roberts says:
May 4, 2016 at 1:53 am
Should an organisation that blatantly spreads hate and intolerance propaganda be legally able to call itself a charity?
I remember as a child how the JW indoctrination made me think being Gay was the same as pedophilia. After I escaped the cult it took me years to adjust my thinking.
I thought all gay people were predators who would rape me and ‘turn me gay’ given the chance.
Bizarre how in reality, the organisation is actually protective of its pedophiles… yet active in condemning sex between two consenting adults of the same gender.
This animated hate crime is fashioned specifically to insidiously corrupt young minds.
It’s no different to the westboro baptist church’s ‘God hates fags’ slogan and their respective ignorant bigoted inhumane attitude to what is just another facet of human nature.
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
May 4, 2016 at 2:45 am
*** w64 5/1 p. 261 The Bible—Is It a “White Man’s Book”? ***
Why do many feel the Bible is a “white man’s book”? Whose book is it? For whom is it?
“A RELIGION organized and backed by the devils for the purpose of making slaves of black mankind.” This is the way Christianity was described by the leader of a militant colored organization. The Bible? He called it a “poison book.”
While many in the realm of Christendom may consider this an extremist viewpoint, the hard fact remains that a large number of colored peoples throughout all of Africa and Asia, as well as colored peoples in other parts of the world, feel similarly. They consider Christianity a “white man’s religion” and the Bible a “white man’s book.”
Some would be quick to dismiss these conclusions of such colored peoples as prejudiced and without any basis. But are such viewpoints without basis? Why have many of the colored peoples of the world come to such a conclusion? And, of vital importance, is it true that the Bible, and hence Christianity, is for the white man principally?
Bible, whose book is that? The one who will answer that question will have opened a way to solving all these problems including indoctrination of young minds of all races.
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Sarah says:
May 4, 2016 at 3:09 am
Can someone tell me how old Sophia is? No child should be dealing with this sort of issue at such a young age. Children’s innocence should be protected. Let them grow up slowly.
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
May 4, 2016 at 4:01 am
I do not know how Old Sophia is but I know Mary was 13 years when she was impregnated by Jehovah to bear Jesus… It happened to be a teen pregnancy…
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Idontknowhatodo says:
May 4, 2016 at 4:34 am
I love Lloyds repeated statement….. ‘How people choose to live their lives is none of our business’ this seems to be forgotten…as long as you are harming no-one tell them to mind their own business!
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chatpal says:
May 4, 2016 at 4:45 am
this certainly is not how subjects like this would have been dealt with 50 years ago. then things were avoided when there was no clear answer. the televangelism is sickening. I cant help but get the feeling there is a undercover group at the wt undermining the whole thing. how on earth can every one of the gb at the wt or anyone up there, watch these videos and equally approve of them?
how does teaching children this make them a better person or live a better life? it doesn’t. if anything the wt should be producing videos on how to be helpful to mommy and daddy , how to not fight with your sister, how to keep your room clean, how to help elderly ones in the cong. things kids actually UNDERSTAND. this is a subject Id never approach with my kids until they were like 16,lol. the short answer to a child that asks why so n so has two mommy’s, or dads, is that they are the best of friends and decided to live together and have children. to explain to a child [if they ask] why a persons physical does not match their actions, Id try explaining a simple scientific explanation. that does exist . i remember when the answer to uncomfortable questions was, well ‘we dont know, but Jehovah will do what he sees is best , as for us we have to be nice everyone’ ,lol
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Sam says:
May 4, 2016 at 4:48 am
My parents are JW, very homophobic and have been extremely nasty about my sisters recent wedding to her girlfriend.
This specific sister works in child protection, protecting small children from the most horrific sexual and physical abuse, and rebuilding their lives after abuse. Something which Jehovah is content to let happen.
But Jehovah is going to kill her because of who she loves.
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
May 4, 2016 at 5:05 am
I am afraid the Watchtower is playing the game they know and are mocking us. For them, homosexuality is a result of quality of father-boy relationship…
*** g95 2/8 p. 16 Why Do I Have These Feelings? ***
A boy also needs acknowledgment, love, and approval from his father. (Compare Luke 3:22.) What can result when a father fails to give his child this needed attention? Emotional distress. Mental-health writer Joseph Nicolosi claims that male homosexuality is “almost always the result of problems in family relations, particularly between father and son.”
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Daniel Roberts says:
May 4, 2016 at 5:30 am
Yup. That’s exactly what makes someone choose to be gay. Not getting enough attention from their father.
Guess I should be gay then.
Hang on…
Maybe…..
I…..
Am….
….
Nope, still like boobs.
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Winston Smith says:
May 4, 2016 at 1:00 pm
Man-boobs? Sorry I couldn’t resist. LOL
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Daniel Roberts says:
May 5, 2016 at 2:28 am
Man boobs?
I suppose given that homosexuality is a choice… according to lesser educated people on this forum… I could LEARN to love man boobs. But only if they were particularly pert.
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Vincent Deporter says:
May 4, 2016 at 5:47 am
Well done! Hopefully, this video will keep blazing thru the internet to warn people of how despicable this cult is, and homophobia in general.
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Vincent Deporter says:
May 4, 2016 at 5:53 am
Just one more thing. I am amused at the likelihood that by the time Caleb & Sophia hit 18, they will have smartened up and left the cult… like most young ones today. Hehe!
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Covert Fade says:
May 4, 2016 at 4:17 pm
Very true! 🙂
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Gameisover says:
May 4, 2016 at 6:03 am
I don’t believe nurturing has anything to do with sexual orientation. Many children are brought up by only women in their household, and are not gay because of it.
Of the 7 things God hates , none have to do with sins of the flesh, but with lying, defaming, pride. (Watchtower!!)
Homosexuality is definitely not a choice. It just happens.
Society instead has a choice: To welcome and respect everyone they meet on this short trip that we call LIFE.
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Winston Smith says:
May 4, 2016 at 5:38 pm
Gameisover,
Not sure if this is response to my comment earlier, but my references to nurture are not in specific regard to child rearing, but rather to the overall sum of experiences that shape our lives and as is defined by the nature vs nurture psychological argument. See additional info above.
WS
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← News Bulletin: Secret Watchtower documents once again demanded in new US court case.
The Friday Column: Leave no man behind →
Why Watchtower should be ashamed of its new homophobic child propaganda cartoon
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Posted on May 3, 2016
In the new cartoon, Sophia's mum teaches her how to be judgmental and bigoted
In the new cartoon, Sophia’s mum teaches her how to be judgmental and bigoted
It was in the summer 2012 that Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world were first introduced to Caleb and Sophia, the Governing Body’s new animated poster kids.
Their first cartoon adventures, which were distributed in DVDs at conventions and on the organization’s JW.org website, caused outrage even among many non-JWs. Watchtower’s blatant attempts to indoctrinate children using fear and paranoia created a wave of dismay that will have gone largely unnoticed by most ordinary JWs.
Since they first burst on to our screens, Caleb and Sophia have been taught by their troubled parents that Jehovah is pedantic enough to hate certain kinds of plastic action figures, that he wants kids to give their ice cream money to Watchtower, and that failing to pay sufficient attention at kingdom hall meetings can carry the death penalty.
But Watchtower apparently isn’t done with stripping JW kids of all innocence and individuality. Now the Governing Body wants them to challenge any classmates with gay or lesbian parents, and remind them that if mommy and mommy (or daddy and daddy) don’t change their ways they will lose their tickets to paradise.
It’s hard to know where to start in verbalizing one’s revulsion at the proud ignorance and homophobia on open display in this CGI monstrosity, but I will do my best.
Firstly, Sophia’s bewilderingly-orange mother manipulates her daughter with a metaphor that entirely misrepresents both homosexuality and Watchtower’s views regarding it. Sophia is asked to picture a man traveling with a bag, the contents of which trigger the airport security systems because he is carrying a prohibited item.
Homosexuality is explained as being the forbidden item the man must surrender before being allowed to travel on to his desired destination: paradise earth.
The video presents a misleading metaphor that misrepresents both homosexuality and Watchtower's teachings about what awaits homosexuals
The video presents a misleading metaphor that misrepresents both homosexuality and Watchtower’s teachings about what awaits homosexuals
Anybody remotely in tune with reality understands that homosexuality is not a “choice,” as so often portrayed by Christian fundamentalists. Straight people are born straight, and gay people are born gay. Just as it would be outrageous to ask a straight person to start being gay, it is impossible to expect a gay person to live a lie and stop being who they are. And yet this is what fanatics like Watchtower demand of them.
Secondly, the metaphor implies that if the traveler chooses against surrendering the forbidden item, the worst that will happen is that his ticket will be cancelled and he will be forced to browse the duty free before hailing a cab and making his way back to the hotel. But that is not how it works according to Jehovah’s Witness teachings.
If the metaphor were accurately and fully followed through, we would see the traveller being bundled away by security and thrown into a 1940s cattle cart, along with all others deemed undesirable by the Governing Body, before being dispatched to the great extermination camp of Armageddon.
This is not a case of “follow us, or don’t fly,” this is a case of “follow us, or die.”
But this doomsday aspect of Jehovah’s Witness theology is so repugnant to most ordinary people that Watchtower must do its best to obfuscate it wherever possible.
Even most JWs you may encounter on the street, if pressed on the matter, will deny that literally billions of people, including children, are in line for mass slaughter if their hopes and expectations come to fruition. Their continued state of subservience to their religion depends on them not thinking things through to their fullest, most grisly conclusion.
All that deception and mischaracterization aside, arguably the most repugnant and disturbing aspect of this vile cartoon is that it sets out to recruit JW children to impose the organization’s homophobic bigotry on any classmates who happen to have gay or lesbian parents.
When I was growing up as a JW I recall being indoctrinated into believing that homosexuality was to be condemned. But I don’t remember once being told to actively seek out homosexuals, or children of homosexuals, to badger them with my beliefs. All that, apparently, has now changed. Watchtower has thrown its hat in with all the other sickly Christian evangelicals whose crusade is to stamp out homosexuality wherever it surfaces.
If you want to see what the end game is of preaching hate in this way, you need only watch the documentary “God Loves Uganda,” which is currently running on Netflix. It shows how U.S. evangelicals have taken a loathsome message that has zero credibility in their homeland, and cynically flooded Uganda with it – a country whose populace have limited access to education and are therefore easy pickings for those who spew ignorance and bigotry.
And before I am accused of trying to persuade people towards atheism by making this film recommendation, I should point out that two heroes of the film are Reverend Kaoma and Bishop Senyonjo. By the end of the film, I wanted to reach into my screen and hug them both.
Despite being Christians they could plainly see the real danger posed by evangelical homophobic fanaticism, and were doing their best in the face of unspeakable brutality to urge love, respect and tolerance.
Now it seems Watchtower, having already embraced televangelism, are also now quite happy to count themselves among the small-minded homophobic hate-mongers who stain our society. And rather than lead the hateful charge themselves, the likes of Tony Morris and his Governing Body cronies are content to hide behind a newly-formed army of school-age foot-soldiers who will take the heat for them.
new-cedars-signature3
Further reading…
◾Metro article
◾Independent article
◾Inquisitr article
◾The Friendly Atheist article
◾Rawstory article
◾Complex article
◾Wetpaint article
◾Pink News article
◾Wonkette article
◾Gaystarnews article
◾SDGLN.com article
◾Same Same article
◾Newnownext article
◾The Daily Dot article
◾The Stranger article
◾The Gaily Grind article
◾Dangerous Minds article
◾TheNewCivilRightsMovement.com article
◾Progressive Secular Humanist article
◾JoeMyGod.com article
◾Watchtower’s New “Toy Story” – What Parents Need to Know
◾Sparlock a year later: Non-JWs in uproar on YouTube
◾Cough up kids! Watchtower needs your ice cream money
◾“Pay attention or die” – A disturbing glimpse of JW child indoctrination at work
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← News Bulletin: Secret Watchtower documents once again demanded in new US court case.
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181 Responses to Why Watchtower should be ashamed of its new homophobic child propaganda cartoon
← Older Comments
Tara says:
May 4, 2016 at 6:27 am
I would actually be quite happy in marrying a gay guy because the ones I know are loving and kind. My ex was sexually abusive, mentally abusive and narcissistic. I would love the companionship of someone who didn’t see me as just something to screw.
I have G and L family members and they are lovely. I mentioned them a few times when I was ‘in’ and actually had jw’s say ‘oh I am so sorry, that must be awful for you….’
Now mt granddaughter, she’s 7, will be exposed to this. I have already passed the video on to my son and told him to pass it to his lawyer (who was married to a jw). Hopefully it can be used when they go to court, in some way.
Reply
Twmack says:
May 4, 2016 at 7:42 am
“Methinks they do protest too much”. Recent verbal
attacks on homosexuals ( Tight pants designers and
wearers), And now this thoughtless and humanity
hating video, directed at young undeveloped minds.
It makes one wonder if those who authorised this trashy
product. are not in the closet themselves.
As Lloyd has shown in his assessment of the video.
Citing the Bible as the absolute authority on lifestyle
leads into a minefield of contradictions.
Reply
Winston Smith says:
May 4, 2016 at 5:43 pm
Twmack
Wouldn’t surprise me if you are correct. I mean think about how hard they slam masturbation and I know based on the reports of numerous bethelites that it is very prevalent at the headquarters. I have also heard that they outlawed wrestling and play fighting at bethel because some of young men were becoming aroused by it.
WS
Reply
Chiafade says:
May 5, 2016 at 11:36 pm
“Don’t get involved with wrestling in your underwear brothers. One minute your wrestling on the floor the all of a sudden you’re a homo”. – George Couch deceased governing body member.
When I was a dub a bethelite in my hall told me about that one. It was in their Monday night lecture. My brother who’s also a bethelite confirmed that story for me.
Reply
Fooledmeonce says:
May 6, 2016 at 12:29 am
Yes, that is very true! I know the two Bethelites that were disfellowshipped for homosexuality after they were wrestling and it led to sex. Obviously it was the ‘wrestling in underwear’ that was the ‘problem’. But that’s what the small-minded morons thought.
Reply
Kaytee says:
May 4, 2016 at 7:48 am
My husband and I watched the above takedown of this horrible video without knowing our 7 y/o daughter was paying attention. We paused after it was over and asked her what she thought. She replied, “I wish I had two moms!” then, looking at my husband, “can I have two dads too?” We looked at each-other and cracked up! Homophobia is learned, it’s not something children do naturally.
Until just a few weeks ago, we mindlessly made our kids watch these videos. Thankfully, it now appears we suck at child indoctrination. I was so afraid for so long that my children wouldn’t decide to be JWs. The most wonderful part of waking up for me has been the peace of knowing I’ll never have to choose between them and Watchtower. I was always pretty sure Watchtower would lose that fight, which made me feel inadequate and sinful. Imagine that! I felt the fact that I wouldn’t be able to shun my children meant I could never please God! Such a messed-up world view.
If we hadn’t made our minds up before now, this video would have been the last straw anyway. Hopefully, there are many other Witnesses that feel the same way. I can’t wait until my husband finds a job with a non-JW company, so we can cut ties completely!
Reply
Cedars says:
May 4, 2016 at 8:03 am
That was an amazing comment. Thanks for sharing! 🙂
Reply
Kaytee says:
May 4, 2016 at 11:46 am
Thank you! I’ve spent the last 10 days here and on jwfacts. I feel like I’ve dived into ice water!
I watched the video you made for your lovely little girl twice with my husband and youngest (she insisted on an encore). It’s beautiful, and how we feel about our children.
How anybody could look at a little girl’s drawing of her parents hand-in-hand in a sunny meadow and see something wrong (as Sophia apparently did) has always been beyond me! What is the end-goal? Breaking up a happy family simply because the parents share a biological sex? No, that is the exact opposite of loving.
Reply
Cedars says:
May 4, 2016 at 12:41 pm
I can totally relate to how bracing it is to first start foraging online for decent info. I’m also glad you liked my video for Jessica. Well done for finding freedom, and immediately passing it on to your kids. It’s the best gift you can give them! 🙂
Reply
Idontknowhatodo says:
May 5, 2016 at 7:47 am
I relate to that amazing feeling that you have when you start on the path of freeing your mind…I devoured everything especially this site and jwfacts…then I watched all of the jw part of the Australian Royal Commission and I have never looked back… kind people on this site encouraged me to take it steady and fade because my husband and children are still deeply ‘in’ and the invaluable advice off Lloyd to have a strategy!… so important it is my mantra…I have a part time job now and am studying for a degree..Im still fading I havn’t reported for 6 months and fortunately though my husband is rver hopeful I will go back he doesnt pressure me…I will always be grateful to this site and Lloyd..at some points I was visiting it 4 to 5 times a day… it kept me sane!… we are all with you
Reply
Kaytee says:
May 5, 2016 at 1:23 pm
Thank you! Everyone here is so kind and supportive! Needless to say, this community is nothing like the hateful, bitter apostates they talk about.
I’m glad I’m not the only one obsessed with factual information at first! It feels like I have to counter every single bit of misinformation, no matter how small.
Cappytan says:
May 5, 2016 at 5:32 am
I loved your comment.
I wish you were my sister-in-law. I really miss my niece and nephews.
Reply
Kaytee says:
May 5, 2016 at 12:31 pm
I’m so sorry for the loss of your family! It’s agonizing having to choose between ones true self and family. Nobody should be forced into such a choice.
Reply
Kaytee says:
May 5, 2016 at 1:38 pm
I wanted to add: I wish I was your sister-in-law too! My family will be shunning us, I’m sure, as soon as they know. It’s an evil policy!
Reply
Queen Elsa says:
May 5, 2016 at 11:12 am
I sincerely wish my husband would see the madness. I envy you…
Reply
Kaytee says:
May 5, 2016 at 12:56 pm
Apparently my husband awoke a few years ago, and was hanging on because he didn’t want to “rock the boat.” I had no idea at the time, but I can see now how he was subtly trying to plant doubts.
The thing that finally got to me wasn’t “apostate” at all (or I would never have looked at it), but was an article about “shame-based systems.” It was a shocking read for me, because it describes almost perfectly what life as a JW is actually like! I thought it was describing problems with other religions, so I was okay with reading it.
The article is here: http://www.truthandgracecounseling.com/uploads/WHAT_IS_A_SHAME-BASED_SYSTEM.doc
It’s funny, but I guess I was kind of “won without a word.” I sincerely hope your husband has a similar epiphany soon!
Reply
Phil says:
May 7, 2016 at 5:58 am
Wonderful comment Kaytee.
Like your husband I had doubts most of my life but couldn’t bring myself to ‘rock the boat’ as you say. However it finally took a moral issue to do it!
Someone I cared about greatly did something that would get them dis-fellowshiped because of a bad situation they had found themselves in. I trawled through the literature looking for loop holes, but there weren’t any.
Basically the wtbts’s stance was simple, if I was an Israelite I would be expected to take this person outside the camp and stone them to death !!!
Well that was something I could not do!! I realized that I would rather take on Jehovah with bare fists than do that to someone I cared about.
So I had come to the conclusion that I had MUCH higher moral standards than ‘Jehovah’. With that realization it was easy to walk away from such evil nonsense!!
Reply
Twmack says:
May 4, 2016 at 8:09 am
Bible approved lifestyle.– Girls, if there’s no other
man around to get you in the family way “Get your
father to do the job,
It’s OK if he’s a righteous man like Lot. A man who
who was sick of the depraved things going off in
Sodom and Gomorrah. 2 Pet, 2:7.
Reply
Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
May 4, 2016 at 8:45 am
The Watchtower will never be ashamed… They still have a pen to write about the secrets of the Kingdom…
*** g81 11/8 p. 21 Is the Bible a White Man’s Book? ***
European nations, although claiming to be Christian, have quarreled and fought right through their turbulent history, this strife reaching a climax in this century in World Wars I and II, and now are making frantic preparations for World War III. And instead of proclaiming God’s kingdom, they look to a man-made political organization, the United Nations, as man’s only hope.
Reply
Bridgette says:
May 4, 2016 at 8:52 am
I have an infant and even though I am still trapped in the org, I resolved to never show her this crap while I was pregnant. I’m hoping this video wakes up others, including my husband. Ridiculous garbage!
Reply
Searcher says:
May 4, 2016 at 9:28 am
Whatever happened to the words of Christ, “He who is sinless cast the first stone.” Oh yeah, I forgot! They conveniently removed that from there newest ‘revision’ of the bible, because it hits this kind of propaganda right between the eyes.
As far a Sophia ‘witnessing’ to the child with two moms, I hope that Sophia’s mom teaches her how to duck a punch along with it. I see one kid who loves her family very much being very defensive about such a witness. Yep! Sophia might well learn what ‘persecution’ is all about when trying to push your views on someone else.
Reply
Freed Mason says:
May 5, 2016 at 3:07 am
Exactly – the freedom of speech in most lands that allows you to ‘preach’ from door to door, hold public conventions and gatherings also allows people of different sexual orientations the same freedom of speech, belief and actions. When you push your beliefs on other people – especially you own and other people’s children (who have no idea of what they are signing up to) expect a very strong push back.
Reply
Plopboy says:
May 4, 2016 at 9:34 am
Seems to me they are simply following what the bible says about homosexuality so your problem is more with the scriptures than JWs in this case.
Reply
Big B says:
May 4, 2016 at 12:19 pm
A question for you Plopboy; If medical science can prove that people are born with a propensity of being “gay” (a gay gene if you will) why should God punish them with destruction if they have no choice in the matter. Can a leopard change his spots or could he naturally eat grass like a bull?
I say, let a perfect God and the “Son of Man” judge people without our imperfect interpretation and renderings of the Hebrew Scriptures. Now that a loving God has removed the obligation of the Mosaic Law from Christians we can approach him with the ransom. God loves sinners (not their sinning) otherwise the sending of his Son would be for naught.
I think we can all agree that we live where the strict interpretation of the Torah, or even the Islamic Sir-ea Law, is not followed because there would be few individuals that could stand up to its strict standards.
As far as I’m concerned J.W.’s who are allowing shenanigans concerning their pedophile protection policy’s to continue (with their ridiculous two witness rule) poses more danger to not only those in the Kingdom Hall but places the entire community at risk. Why? Because the elders will not report the offender to local authorities. In my opinion, this poses more of a risk to society than what sexual acts consenting adults care to perform in the privacy of their homes.
A better, more instructional cartoon would have been to show the children telling their parents of “improper touching” while in field service by an elder. Then showing the parents contacting the Local Authorities after nothing is done by the congregational body of elders. (Let’s put this matter in Jehovah’s hands). This would be more believable than the “two mommies” scenario in my book. Yeah, fat chance that ever happens. 🙂
Reply
Covert Fade says:
May 4, 2016 at 1:51 pm
Watchtower: “Consensual gay sex is WRONG! Now come over here and help me not report all these pedophiles.”
Reply
Tilli says:
May 4, 2016 at 10:32 pm
I’m curious where the Bible says the stuff shown in this video.
Reply
Darth Fader says:
May 4, 2016 at 10:26 am
In the 1930’s and 40’s the Nazis used the same child indoctrination techniques to dehumanize their imagined opponents, the Jews in particular. The Nazis printed story books and made cartoons for their little ones to poison their minds and make it OK to kill these demonized ones. We all know what this type of child indoctrination leads to.
The unfortunate result of this will be that JW kids will become the ones that will be persecuted for this stance taken by the Governing Body. Expect to see Young ones trotted out at future conventions and assemblies to tell how heroically they took a beating at school while taking a stand for the CEO’s of a Billion Dollar Publishing Corporation.
Reply
SuzI Drums says:
May 4, 2016 at 12:25 pm
This, even more than their previous child-targeted videos, shows how they are usurping the parents’ rights to exercise their best judgment as to what, when and how to teach their children. The assumption that these videos are safe for children to watch on their own could leave parents with nasty surprises in the form of calls from schools, angry parents and even lawyers.
Reply
PeterB says:
May 4, 2016 at 12:38 pm
This comment will not go over well with this community Mr. Scott. I know what you are trying to express, I feel the same way. But this community is focused on one thing, and that is to expose JW as a hopelessly failing- evil cult. (This community takes advantage of “freedom of speech” but doesn’t realize that the USA government along with their elite buddies have been inching closer and closer to their plans of removing “free speech” and removing most of the constitution in order to bring in a “New World Order”. Hellooooo…9/11 was totally an inside job. This community still watches mainstream news outlets and believes that one day mankind will make beautiful changes…LOL Why the extensive parentheses you might ask…because knowing the facts about a shadow government will allow one question and investigate their current stance even deeper.) I have recently decided to take up studying with JWs again in spite of all I read on here. Let me tell you, I hate their policies regarding the handling of abuse cases. There is something dead wrong about that. But, I already knew this and still have a passion for studying the bible with them specifically. Here’s why. (The following are mainly for those who still believe on God) As I mentioned before, most of my spare time from the ages of 19 until now (37), have been studying religion. It has always intrigued me. It always made sense to me that “IF” there was a God, and “IF” there was an inspired book to lead people in a direction HE desired, and “IF” there was a “way”, and IF there all this that we see since man has fucked up in the Garden of Eden is just an alternate world that should have never taken place to begin with…and IF these are the “last days” (hell yea they are, I don’t need religion to tell me that)…”IF” all these are to be taken seriously…then (if you minus the top things that bother you about Watchtower/JWs), I come to the conclusion that this is THE ORGANIZATION that tried it’s best in these “days” (20&21st century) to round up as many people as possibly by way of a big ass preaching & teaching (door to door) campaign that this world will never see again. That one thing alone made me seek them out again. JW is an Org that is full of problems, full of sinful leaders, prideful and clueless sheeple, among other things that bring pain to thousands within it’s walls. But, after studying with other religions (including independent folks that just like to read in to the scriptures), I know there is corruption everywhere. But i believe God looks down and sees everything! He knows what is flawed. I’ll bet Moses was doing all kinds of things exactly like the JWs Governing Body. I’ll bet Korah in the bible had even more garbage to lay out there against Moses than we read in the Bible. But, still Moses was the one. The GB is one hell of a sinful group. But I believe the work of JWs is proof enough that they are special. Just simply teaching the “good news” in the unprecedented scale that we’ve scene is good enough. Everything that’s wrong with the ORG…God will deal with it. But according to what I read…this group had one job. One main job. They have done it. Now getting back to the government and the Gay movement…It’s all by design. Do you know what’s in your tap water? Food? Do you know what planes are leaving in the sky for us to breath? Listen to Alex Jones on infowars.com You’ll understand. So anyway, I am at work typing away…and now im rushing my thoughts but- well the bible is clear on the subject of homosexuality. That’s not to say we must treat them unkindly though.
Reply
PeterB says:
May 4, 2016 at 2:11 pm
*correction in my horrible grammar* It always made sense to me that “IF” there was a God, and “IF” there was an inspired book to lead people in a direction HE desired, and “IF” there was a “way”, and IF all this that we see since the beginning of time when man fucked up in the Garden of Eden is just an alternate world that should never have even taken place to begin with…and IF these are the “last days” (hell yea they are, I don’t need religion to tell me that)…
Reply
Grace says:
May 4, 2016 at 3:25 pm
So in your conspiracy, how do you know if the Watchtower wasn’t set up by these ‘shadow men’ as a way to draw people in & create a sheeplike attitude that would be easy to manoeuvre into the “new world order”. Is it coincidental that the Watchtower uses the same symbolic language that the Freemasons did?
Like the following:
“Jehovah”
“The Watchtower”
“Millenium Dawn”
“The Golden Age”
“New World”
“New System”
Elders
Anointed
Admonish
Brotherhood
Reply
Outandabout says:
May 6, 2016 at 2:35 am
And how do you know that Satan hasn’t taken over the Watchtower (seven headed beast and seven GB members) and is laughing his head off at the thought of taking another eight million unsuspecting souls on judgment day? Everything is a conspiracy if that’s the way you want it. I can recommend a good Therapist if you like. Can be reached on 0800 iamnuts.
Reply
Big B says:
May 4, 2016 at 5:05 pm
PeterB;
So glad to read your comments. My, my… so many “if’s and’s and but’s”. I have a question for you my friend, which also happens to be the same question I asked my Elders after 55 years of association before fading, namely; if Jehovah is infallible (the epitome of perfection), and the Holy Spirit emanating from Jehovah is also perfect, then it stands to reason that although written by imperfect men his word is also perfect. Yes?
However, his so called “spirit directed organization” (Watchtower) has been wrong so many times it staggers the imagination. Can the Holy Spirit be wrong? Not according to the Inspired Word! So if the Watchtower has it and we all agree the Holy Spirit emanates from God, I suggest to you that not only do they not have it, they have never had it.
For example; the three Cadillac driving, three home owing, drunken sot President of the Society, J.F Rutherford’s “Million’s now living will never die” speeches. This nonsense of his was pronounced back in the late 1920’s early 1930’s. Where are those millions now? Dead as a door nail.
Also his “Advertise, Advertise, Advertise the King and his Kingdom” oh, and while your cold calling the public from door to door, be sure to sell my books. He never went door to door once but had no problem sending others out dispensing his nonsense. And what Pulitzer prize, N.Y. Times best sellers they were to. Such winning titles such as: “Children”, “Enemies”, etc. You won’t find many of these ‘one word wonders’ around anymore.
Also, and I personally lived through this one, namely the mantra “Door to Door in ’74 to be alive in ’75”. If they had been telling the “Truth” we would be 41 years into the New System by this October. Well come to find out (New Light) we are not in the LAST DAYS but “the beginnings of the pangs of distress”.
Also with the July 15, 2013 Watchtower, C.T. Russell and followers have been proven not to be Gods instrument for dispensing spiritual food.
Don’t get me started on the fact that Jehovah’s Witnesses now have a “Rapture” as shown in the same Watchtower (see the chart).
This “New Light” can be interpreted to show that Armageddon is a long distance away, more so than anyone now living will see. In other words, the “Great Crowd” who are to survive are not even born yet! That assumes that Armageddon is not symbolic of something else in a book written in signs and symbols.
Because of their outing, by the Guardian newspaper, in reference to their membership as a NGO (Non Governmental Organization) in the United Nations, which they were members of for 10 years, they now suffer the extreme consequences of Jehovah’s displeasure.
This is because they (the Watchtower) themselves identified the Scarlet Colored Beast in 1942-43 by then President N.H. Knorr. This idea was carried over in the Society’s 1963 book “Babylon the Great has fallen; God’s Kingdom Rules”. How could God’s spirit directed organization involve themselves with Satan’s organization, you might ask? AS WELL YOU SHOULD!
I challenge you to pose these questions to your body of elders and see what happens to you. Especially since you are now corresponding on an “apostate site.”
As a closing thought, as spoken on the site exjw critical thinker on youtube, “better to have “questions” you cannot answer than “answers” you cannot question”. 🙂
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PeterB says:
May 4, 2016 at 5:57 pm
Gods people throughout the bible were never perfect like god is. Nowhere in the bible does it say that in the last days God would have a perfect Org. Nowhere!
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Big B says:
May 4, 2016 at 6:55 pm
PeterB: Nowhere does the Bible say that he would have an earthly Organization either or “a faithful and discrete slave that everyone will be accountable to” or one mention of a “Paradise Earth” either! Type that on your Watchtower CD. Rom Library, just as I have, and see how many times that expression comes up in the Sacred Scriptures. (Spoiler Alert!) Not ONCE. Surprised?
Both my parents, all of my aunts and uncles followed this cult since the 1950’s only to die discouraged, disappointed, unfulfilled, and disillusioned. But I’ll bet one thing “Paradise Earth” and “Armageddon” are pipe dreams. And what is at the end of a pipe? A whole lot of nothing (maybe excrement).
Again, do your research and see for yourself or you will waste many opportunities for personal fulfillment working for
a “doomsday cult” like I did for over 55 years. The final decision where to place your trust, my friend, is yours but my “ask your elders challenge still stands, if you’re up to it”.
Good Luck and keep searching. The real Truth is out there or not? 🙂
Ejecting to Sanity says:
May 6, 2016 at 10:14 pm
A Caution with Hood Intentions-
As you are around meetings more you are bound to hear the phrases ‘a little leaven spoils the whole loaf..’ and. ‘ If an apple had one drop if poison (or a cup of water had a drop) , would you drink it?’
Over and over and over , JWS are taught to automatically reject other religions as false due to lack of perfection. Satanic.
Therefore Members are drilled to agree with inevitable conclusion:
If the Borg is teaching the truth, if I have found true worship..then..
The Borg is not satanic.
The Borg is not false.
Therefore, lucky members, the Borg is perfect.
No, not the men…But their printed words, their policies, interpretations, their discipline, hierarchy, judgements, etc…perfect.
You must be in agreement with absolutely everything the GB and corporation does, says, prints, thinks..
Ridiculing and judging other faiths, ministers, and members privately, in comments and (amazingly enough) from the platform is common and accepted.
Very recent experience – straight from the platform. Within the last 6 mo. Brother Elder ridiculed a local church because they had an ad in the paper for a part time secretary. How shameful that they had to pay someone and not have a volunteer. Obviously, we ALL KNOW that this is an immediate sign of false worship, right?? The many faces of judgement…
As far as overlooking or ‘waiting on Jehovah’ to deal with the pedophile pestilence, the blackmail of shunning, the homophobia, the UN scandal, the Malawi/Mexico unjustice, the Idol worship of GB and JW.org, and the many other Secrets…you should remember that a good JW is taught that any connection to a sinner or sinful group is equally as guilty. And that silent observation and/or agreement is indeed a sin and unacceptable.
I understand that one wants to look for the good and let the bad settle, but as we’ve heard a 1000 times ‘Get out of her!!’
Ejecting to Sanity says:
May 6, 2016 at 10:26 pm
They definitely were not perfect people, agreed. It’s not the Bible that is demanding perfection. It’s the Borg, the JB, the WT that elevates the leaders, the policies. I’ve left not to leave God or the Bible but to leave this sad center of dubious character…
Gorbatchov says:
May 4, 2016 at 1:29 pm
The video is going viral in Netherlands nationsl media. The branch office gave an official reaction that the video is for JW children and interested and not for the general public. It’s not intended for offending people. If it does on large scale it could be concidered to take it offline. It is out freedom of speech was his final conclusion.
People reacted they will report the video to the local police.
So, bad imago media for jw.
Gorby
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Covert Fade says:
May 4, 2016 at 1:53 pm
Wow, they actually used the “it’s not for you, it’s for our children only” line?
Yeah, THAT doesn’t sound sketchy at ALL! 😀 😀 Sounds like perfectly reasonable non-cult behaviour. Heh heh. Oh well, I guess that’s what happens when your PR team didn’t get a higher education…
Can you share a link? I’d love to see it
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mitch67 says:
May 5, 2016 at 3:08 am
well do they not encourage people to get on their website and see those cartoons?
oddly it is not on the German website..
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mitch67 says:
May 5, 2016 at 3:10 am
but it is on their officilal english language site which they advertise for in public.
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Gorbatchov says:
May 4, 2016 at 2:18 pm
@Covert fade, here are some links of the national media in the Netherlands covering the news about the jw.org video:
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/editienl/jehovas-maken-kinderfilm-homos-niet-welkom-het-paradijs
http://www.trouw.nl/tr/nl/4492/Nederland/article/detail/4294749/2016/05/04/COC-boos-op-Jehova-s-om-kinderfilmpje.dhtml
http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/kritiek-op-jehovah-s-getuigen-om-anti-homo-kinderfimpje~a4294809/
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1012/Nederland/article/detail/4294662/2016/05/04/Commotie-om-video-Jehovah-s-over-homohuwelijk.dhtml
http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/25726326/__Jehova_s__LHTB_s_naar_de_hel__.html
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Covert Fade says:
May 4, 2016 at 2:50 pm
Wonderful! Thank you 😀
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Average Joe says:
May 5, 2016 at 12:06 am
Dank u wel Gorby!
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JWIntellect says:
May 4, 2016 at 6:24 pm
This is not a case of “follow us, or don’t fly,” this is a case of “follow us, or die.”
I loved this line!
Excellent article, as always, Mr. Evans.
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Markie says:
May 4, 2016 at 8:11 pm
For what it’s worth, there is a Reverend named Vernon Dozier that uses electroshock therapy and aversion technics to cure homosexuality. I remember he cured one fellow named Warren Benman right on the Phil Hendrie Show.
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
May 4, 2016 at 11:20 pm
Wonderfully said, This is not a case of “follow us, or don’t fly,” this is a case of “follow us, or die.”
Is history repeating itself?
*** w60 10/1 p. 598 The Church Started with the Holy Scriptures ***
“When the crusaders at last stormed Jerusalem, July 15, 1099, they drove all the Jews into one of the synagogues and there burned them alive. . . . The religious zeal fomented by the Crusades burned as fiercely against the Jews as enemies of Christ as against the Moslems. Thus both economically and socially the Crusades were disastrous for European Jews.”
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Freed Mason says:
May 5, 2016 at 12:03 am
This is a form of child abuse, these videos will only cause emotional upset and conflict for the witness children who watch them, their teachers and classmates. I cannot imagine how a loving parent would allow their child to watch this mental indoctrination at such a vulnerable and impressionable age. I sincerely hope that the UK Charity Commission is aware of this content and it is removed immediately. You can expect a huge backlash to this content from normal, law abiding, tax paying humans that have a freedom of choice in terms of their sexual orientation.
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Will says:
May 5, 2016 at 7:15 am
I agree @Freed Mason. This is child abuse. You are opening the doors to your child getting bullied for his or intolerance or getting the sh** beat of of him or her– self-imposed persecution.
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ruthlee says:
May 5, 2016 at 12:22 am
I always thought it interesting they named their cartoon boy Caleb. That means dog does it not, and what is the hire of a dog euphemistic for in Biblical terms? Some one somewhere on the writing team was having a little in joke going on. The witness leadership are sick puppies.Oh the day we see Sophia get baptised and then two years later d’fd for crimes against watchtower. I’m sure there are some jdumb kids who think these cartoons are real. I have a new suggestion for the gb spies on this site… How about a t shirt campaign with your two little darlings sweet eyed asking us and our kids for MORE money. guilt is not working , extortion did for a bit but I reckon the charm offensive will do nicely. yours everso cynically Ruthlee
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mitch67 says:
May 5, 2016 at 3:06 am
in German the boy is called Philipp…;-)
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
May 5, 2016 at 2:37 am
The Watchtower are crook. They say “Telephone sex is one of the means that Satan the Devil is using to corrupt young ones today.” (g04 2/22 p. 21) but keep feeding our children with “SEX IN THE BIBLE”!
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Doc Obvious says:
May 5, 2016 at 5:41 am
How interesting that Watchtower puts out a video against Same-Sex Couples, but gave them the right to marry based on a United States Supreme Court case from the 1960’s.
A USA today article titled, “How Jehovah’s Witnesses helped kill Prop 8”, shows how a court case involving the rights of Same-Sex Couple to Marry were upheld by a precedent set by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.
Here is the link to that very article, How Jehovah’s Witnesses helped kill Prop 8
It also has the whole case transcript as a link in the article.
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Tara says:
May 5, 2016 at 6:27 am
Has anyone heard any responses from JW’s or the GB etc? Netherlands, as I have read made a response but anything from anywhere else?.
What about the gay community? How are they viewing, no pun intended, this?
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Twmack says:
May 5, 2016 at 6:30 am
@ PeterB.
Gods people throughout the bible were never perfect like god is. Nowhere in the bible does it say that in the last days God would have a perfect Org. Nowhere!”.
Peter, It sounds like your study conductor is doing a good job on you.
Maybe the “Bible” doesn’t say God would have a perfect organisation,
but the “Watchtower” does and claims that position for its self.
Note the following.
1956 “Who controls the organization, who directs it? Who is at the head? A man? A group of men? A clergy class? A pope? A hierarchy? A council? No, none of these. How is that possible? In any organization is it not necessary that there be a directing head or policy-making part that controls or guides the organization? Yes. Is the living God, Jehovah, the Director of the theocratic Christian organization? Yes!” (Watchtower, November 1, 1956, p. 666).
Is God perfect or his he not? The Bible says he is, Deut,32:4, Ps, 18:30.
So claiming that an infallible source is controlling, guiding and policy
making can be interpreted no other way than saying this organisation
Is Perfect.
It’s only when they are forced into changing dates and flip flopping
on doctrine, they then adopt the fall back position. That we are only
fallible men. Peter I wish you well in your search for truth, but just
at present I think you’re looking entirely in the wrong place.
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PeterB says:
May 5, 2016 at 9:00 am
@Big B
Hmm, scriptures in Isiah and many others sure as hell sound like it’s hinting towards a restoration of a paradisiac situation. If not, then why the fuck is the earth here for? I totally prefer the idea that there would be some sort of “organization” for a people of God in our time to help understand a decent chunk of the Bible. To be organized.
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dee2 says:
May 5, 2016 at 10:49 am
Peter B:
“….scriptures in Isiah and many others sure as hell sound like it’s hinting towards a restoration of a paradisiac situation.”
– Which scriptures are these?
– How do these sctiptures “hint towards a restoration of a paradisiac situation”?
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rahab says:
May 6, 2016 at 2:28 am
it is good you hav indicated its your preference that there would be some sort of organization but certainly not the preference of God.you hav a right to prefer what you want but make sure you don’t go door to door peddling the lie that its a bible teaching
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PeterB says:
May 5, 2016 at 9:19 am
@Grace
I know all of the fact behind the shadow government- including all participating families, secret societies, government agencies, corporations and media. I know what their agenda has always been. I know all the terms and lingo within. If you knew, you all wouldn’t be so gleeful over Gay victories or Gun Control victories. If you only knew. If you put as much energy into investigating your government the way you do the WT, you would know that the WT is not and has never been connected…even if CT Russell was in some form to some degree of masonry. If you knew, then you would know the difference. If you only knew what you government is upto, you’d be protesting right now. If you only knew.
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dee2 says:
May 5, 2016 at 11:06 am
Peter B:
“If you only knew what you government is upto, you’d be protesting right now. If you only knew.”
So what is the government up to? Seems you are privy to some information which you need to share with us.
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Twmack says:
May 5, 2016 at 10:53 am
Is not religion the greatest conspiracy of all? The invention
of a God with awesome powers, someone we owe our life to
who loves us, but is capable of violent anger and terrible
retribution if offended.
Behind every religion is the “Hidden Elite” who use this
concept of of a schizophrenic monster, to keep the masses
subservient and compliant. His invisibility and no show is a
key factor in keeping the conspiracy or the illusion from
being Sussed out.
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PeterB says:
May 5, 2016 at 12:30 pm
@dee2
(KING JAMES)
Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isaiah 65:21-25 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent’s meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
http://biblehub.com/hcsb/psalms/37.htm
29The righteous will inherit the landar
and dwell in it permanently.
That doesn’t sound ANYTHING like a paradise earth right?
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dee2 says:
May 5, 2016 at 4:15 pm
PeterB,
“That doesn’t sound ANYTHING like a paradise earth right?”
– Paradise for whom? Who were these scriptures addressed to?
– Just my musings:
I’ve always wondered if wolves, leopards and lambs can actually dwell/lie down together?
Or if the calf and the young lion and the fatling can actually dwell/lie down together?
Can a little child safely lead wolves, leopards, and young lions?
Can wolves and lambs actually feed together, and lions eat straw like the bullock?
– Are you aware that persons will die in this Paradise?
Isaiah 65:22: “…….for as the days of a tree are the days of my people…….”
– Could you please explain how Isaiah 45:18 pertains to the Paradise?
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PeterB says:
May 5, 2016 at 12:49 pm
@dee2
As far as the Government. It’s so much for thrilling and sickeningly informative to do the research on your own. Go to the United Nations Website and look up Agenda 21. (then do research until the wee hours of the morning on that)
look up agenda 2030.
look up bohemian grove
look up Black Lives Matter (seriously)
look up the The Georgia Stones
Study the lay out, art and inscriptions of the White House and surrounding Gov buidlings
Research the origins of the Illuminati and the worship of the owl
look up Bill Clinton having sex with children
look up chemtrails and what they really are
look up plans for a NEW WORLD ORDER and what it means for you
watch Food Inc and see where all that connects
look up what fluoride in your water REALLY is
If you think that the twin towers fell at free fall speed in just under an hour of being hit by a plane…and that the impact of and fuel made them fall the way they did…LOL
Not to mention World Trade Center 7 (the 3rd building in NY to call that same day in the same fashion as the other 2…free fall speed like a controlled demo! In order to have those buildings fall perfectly it was going to take sophisticated top notch planning by top notch science. Not some fools in a cave in the East. Think.
Look up the real agenda behind gun control and the real planning behind all these mass shootings.
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ian york says:
May 5, 2016 at 1:40 pm
PeterB,
Perhaps you should be studying with Alex Jones, not JWs. Your conspiracy theories are most certainly NOT shared by them, and if your study conductor says they are then you are being humoured and drawn in, inch by inch. That’s how they do it. You’ll find they don’t contemplate anything beyond surface levels and always draw the most simplistic conclusions that fit their doomsday beliefs. You’re wasting your time. And actually I share some of your concerns: Agenda 21 etc.
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Daniel Roberts says:
May 6, 2016 at 1:36 am
Just because the government’s of this world are corrupt and deceitful, (Governments always have been) doesn’t mean that JW’S have the truth.
In fact, considering the deceit that the JW’S are guilty of, from revising their old literature to omit embarrassing false teachings and predictions, to even go so far as to revise THE BIBLE (no less) in order to better support their doctrines, to allow their members to stake and lose their lives on doctrinal demands based upon incorrect interpretation of scriptures – just to then recant on this ‘truth’ in favour of “new light’.
Truth doesn’t change.
Truth doesn’t need to be adjusted.
Truth doesn’t have to manipulated.
Truth either is, or isn’t.
If it isn’t…
Then it’s called Lies.
The JW organisation is built on lies.
It teaches lies.
You are being deceived by expert deceivers.
I think you already know this.
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dee2 says:
May 6, 2016 at 6:05 am
“Just because the government’s of this world are corrupt and deceitful, (Governments always have been) doesn’t mean that JW’S have the truth.”
Jim Jones People’s Temple cult leader:
“Will you tell me you believe in God out there? So what? What’s your sky God ever done? Two out of three nations in the world are hungry. Misery in every one of your homes. The only happiness you’ve found is when you’ve come to this earth God!
Your children were in difficulties. No one came to the jails. You prayed to your sky God and he never heard your prayers. You asked and begged and pleaded in your suffering … . He never provided a home, but I, your socialist God, have given you all these things. When your world has failed you, I’ll be standing because I am freedom. I am peace. I am Justice. I am God!”
(Source: Raven: The Untold Story of the Reverend Jim Jones and His People).
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Daniel Roberts says:
May 7, 2016 at 4:58 am
Jonestown. A symbol of just how deep and dark Christian fundamentalism can get.
The JW’S aren’t fair behind I fear.
Whilst not explicitly commanding it’s members to kill themselves in the name of their version of God – yet – They specifically instruct their members to die for JHVH in various ways.
I fear for my brother and his family, still completely entranced and mesmerised by the hypnotic power of this putrid cult.
Wish he’d get out before they give the Kool Aid command.
On another note that PeterB made regarding the ‘Worldwide preaching work’
Door to door.
Surely the least effective way to preach an urgent message?
Saving lives at the speed of………foot.
Slowly ambling around neighbourhoods, quietly confident that no one will be at home to hear the most lazily and incoherently delivered life saving message of all time.
At the very least the Mormons send out articulate people with a concise message into the field.
Not the witnesses. Children, mopey teenagers, the elderly, the uneducated.
Ambassadors for the kingdom, commissioned with the most important job in human history.
Saving humanity from imminent destruction… easily sent on their ambling way with a simple: ‘Not today thanks’.
I read a Wachtower article on JW.ORG this week which talks about the Rapture of the last remaining annointed ones during the great tribulation.
The article was so poorly written and so vague it was painful to read.
That 8 million people are wasting their lives and resources, hopes and future on this pack of lies is just so sad.
I hope my Bro finds the way out.
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Daniel Roberts says:
May 7, 2016 at 5:00 am
Jonestown. A symbol of just how deep and dark Christian fundamentalism can get.
The JW’S aren’t far behind I fear.
Whilst not explicitly commanding it’s members to kill themselves in the name of their version of God – yet – They specifically instruct their members to die for JHVH in various ways.
I fear for my brother and his family, still completely entranced and mesmerised by the hypnotic power of this putrid cult.
Wish he’d get out before they give the Kool Aid command.
On another note that PeterB made regarding the ‘Worldwide preaching work’
Door to door.
Surely the least effective way to preach an urgent message?
Saving lives at the speed of………foot.
Slowly ambling around neighbourhoods, quietly confident that no one will be at home to hear the most lazily and incoherently delivered life saving message of all time.
At the very least the Mormons send out articulate people with a concise message into the field.
Not the witnesses. Children, mopey teenagers, the elderly, the uneducated.
Ambassadors for the kingdom, commissioned with the most important job in human history.
Saving humanity from imminent destruction… easily sent on their ambling way with a simple: ‘Not today thanks’.
I read a Wachtower article on JW.ORG this week which talks about the Rapture of the last remaining annointed ones during the great tribulation.
The article was so poorly written and so vague it was painful to read.
That 8 million people are wasting their lives and resources, hopes and future on this pack of lies is just so sad.
I hope my Bro finds the way out.
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
May 5, 2016 at 1:17 pm
Hypocrites are not easy to deal with. The Watchtower are today’s Pharisees.
*** w11 11/1 p. 7 Ten Questions About Sex Answered ***
Even though they do not condone homosexual relations, true Christians show kindness to all people. (Matthew 7:12) God wants us to “honor men of all sorts.” Therefore, genuine Christians are not homophobic.—1 Peter 2:17.
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Alice says:
May 5, 2016 at 5:05 pm
I know this is going to be an off topic comment. I want to share my experience, it may help someone. I was shunned by my JW brother and sister for twentyone years. After my husband died I started attending meetings so I could have family in my life. Now that they see I don’t go out in service and I am rarely going to meetings my JW family are shunning me again. The funny thing about this is that this time I really, honestly don’t care. I feel it’s their problem and not mine. This is the second time around for me being shunned by my JW family. THEY ARE THE ONLY FAMILY I HAVE yet in my brain I cut all ties with them. It took me a long time to do that. I realize I don’t want to be around people who treat me the way they do even though they are family. The society for me is a dictatorship. They dictate what you say, they dictate what you feel, they dictate your sex life, they dictate how your kids treat a lesbian couple and their child, they dictate how you look, they dictate what comes out of your mouth. The society treats everyone like muppets by pulling their strings. I feel calmer and less stress letting go.
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Julien says:
May 5, 2016 at 8:21 pm
Hi Alice. I think a lot of us have gone through the mental and emotional warfare of being shunned by our families. I tried for a while to stay in contact but once I had children and I caught them preaching to them I had to sever all ties. I think people drawn to this cult have an already existing precept and the jw doctrines just validated what they already beleived or they dont want to think for themselves. People who shun their family members are not people who loves us nor really comprehend what love really is. It is brainwashing and indoctrination. All we can do is not repeat their mistakes. Good luck to you.
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ruthlee says:
May 6, 2016 at 1:00 am
Hi Alice I am in a similar position in that all my relatives who were jws are dead. I have no one from my history. My kids are at that vulnerable age and I do not encourage them to do the stuff I did but they have a vast family ie my inlaws. Like you I am at that point where I don’t give a hoot anymore with them. I honestly don’t need their sarcastic comments and I dont mind if I never uttered another word to any of them. Icannot believe I think like this but somehow we get a strength without these people and don’t need their tightlipped judgement or their trivial gossip. In a way we grow up when we realise this religion is very shallow. If you are a bible reader and a Christian just think about the last time you actually had a conversation about spiritual matters and I’m not talking about speculative whacky ideas from Brooklyn. I think you will find this site with all it’s diversity has given you more to think about with regards your faith, belief and direction than you ever got fed by the famished jdubs So in that way we are not alone . In fact it starts a great journey of discovery. I downed tools last year no more watchtower for me and that has been liberating. It is surprising what the bible says and it is not what they teach. If you have to meet up with jdubs the best advice I heard from Ms Gaskin wear shunglasses. cheers Ruthlee
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Twmack says:
May 6, 2016 at 11:11 am
The wolf and lamb lying down together, the predator and
prey system abolished. “They will not hurt or destroy in all
my holy mountain”
To be meaningful, that promise has got to extend to all living
things. The mind just focuses on the larger animals, but
the predator prey relationship goes right down to the insect
world.
The screams of a fly trapped in a spiders web have been
amplified, it feels it experiences fear and terror, just as much
as a wildebeest being dragged under by a crocodile or a
zebra suffocated by a lion.
The more you meditate on this topic the more you realise how
foolish it is to interpret it literally. I look back and wonder where
my mind was when I thought this stuff was real. I think I must
have regressed to kindergarten.
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dee2 says:
May 6, 2016 at 12:04 pm
Imagine the scenario if all the carnivores/predators are converted to herbivores and there is no more food chain: death would only be as a result of aging, assuming that the animals are not going to live forever like humans, too – but then according to Revelation 21:4 it seems the animals may very well be living forever too since
“There will be no more death………for the old order of things has passed away.”
So now, with no more food chain, there would now be a potential risk of an out-of-control animal population…………welcome to Paradise.
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John says:
May 7, 2016 at 2:36 pm
The term “homophobia” seems distinctly Orwellian to me. Perhaps Mr Cedars could explain the rationale behind the use of this word.
A homophobic person is supposed to have an irrational fear and hatred towards homosexuals, based on the belief that sex between people of the same sex is wrong. This is a moral claim, which is not refuted by argument, but by an attack on the person’s character i.e. he/she has an irrational hatred towards such people.
This is simply fallacious reasoning, and a clear instance of the ad hominem fallacy.
It’s also something of a non sequitor. You are saying that if a person contends that a certain action is wrong, then they have an irrational fear and hatred of those who engage in that action. There is a fairly broad consensus that theft is wrong, but it does not follow that those holding this view are inciting hatred towards thieves.
If that was the case, then the only way to avoid such hatred would be to have no moral guidelines, which would be nihilism not love.
Those who are reacting so vehemently against this video are themselves making moral judgments. They are condemning those who say homosexual conduct is wrong, and are contributing to a climate of intolerance against those who hold such views. Could it not be said that they are also inciting a certain hatred towards such people? There is an bitter irony here regarding the issue of tolerance.
Is it fair to denigrate someone’s character on the basis of little or no evidence? I would contend that the homophobic label is little more than a smear tactic, designed to deny any rational debate. It is irrational contempt disguised as fake moral outrage.
You are also saying-in this instance-that a moral viewpoint (Biblically justified) is irrational.
I also take issue with Mr Cedars contention regarding the inevitability of sexual preferences: “Anybody remotely in tune with reality understands that homosexuality is not a “choice,” as so often portrayed by Christian fundamentalists. Straight people are born straight, and gay people are born gay.”
I would direct readers to an article on this subject, suggesting that such a contention is deeply flawed: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/for-the-first-time-a-majority-of-americans-believe-homosexuals-are-born-tha
I look forward to any comments and will try to answer any reasonable objections.
Thank you for reading this.
Reply
PeterB says:
May 7, 2016 at 2:45 pm
@John Great comment
Reply
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← Why Watchtower should be ashamed of its new homophobic child propaganda cartoon
The Friday Column: Leave no man behind
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Posted on May 6, 2016
tumblr_static_bobposter1I had brothers when I was a Jehovah’s Witness.
They were not related to me. We shared no blood. Neither did I use this term in the arbitrary “spiritual” sense, granting brotherhood simply because someone shared my religious beliefs irrespective of the content of character or the quality of their friendship.
No, they were not physical brothers, nor brothers in faith. Yet they were my brothers in every way that truly mattered.
I grew up with them. From the explosion of discovery and imagination and growth that was childhood, to the energetic teenage and early twenties where life and energy seemed infinite and glittering with potential, to the growing maturity and stability of adulthood, we shared each others triumphs, felt each others pain. We adventured across the world together, built memories that will echo inside me forever. We had each other’s backs, and we’d take a bullet for each other if we had to.
Yet we postponed our lives.
Some of us put off getting married. Sure, there were lots of great girls in the congregations, but there would be time for that later. Right now, the faith needed our time and energy. So we lived single and alone, not knowing things like the fundamental joy of sleepily holding close the person you love in bed on a lazy Sunday morning.
Some of us put off doing what we loved, delayed becoming who we wanted to become. I knew musicians, artists, scientists, lawyers, activists and writers, none of whom were doing what they loved. Their talents lay slack, fallow, as they cleaned windows, and worked mundane low-pay jobs. In the New System, we thought, we can be what we truly are. For now, we can just put what we are on hold, and become something else, something lesser. Just for a little while. Just until the New World.
Some of us put off having children. Not in this system. Not in all this chaos. After Armageddon, when the children can grow up safe in a better world. One day we would be the parents they so desperately wanted to be, but not now. Not now.
I used to think this way.
Then I was set free.
Freedom to feel the ticking clock
set-free1Against a background of increasing cognitive dissonance and disquiet about what I was seeing and hearing from he organisation that ruled my life, I was finally given the information I need to make an informed choice about allegiance to the religion I had been born into.
This information came not from Watchtower publications, nor from “apostates” screaming abuse in my face. It came from JWfacts.com. JWsurvey.org. Google. Youtube. Raymond Franz. All of these online resources provided the counterpoints to the propaganda I’d been fed since birth.
For the first time in my life, I was able to weigh up the facts, and ask hard questions of my religion. For the first time in my life, I saw how dismally the Watchtower faith responded to the challenge.
And so, like so many others who finally see behind the curtain of the high control religion we were blindly born into, I chose to leave.
Shedding doctrine and belief was easier for me than many others have found. On some level, I think I’d always rejected most of the Watchtower’s more ludicrous teachings and harmful practices. The one exception to this was giving up my idea of eternal life on a paradise earth. This loss was bitterly painful, but the resulting energy that this loss brought to my life was spectacular.
Now that I know my life is finite, I have finally begun to live it with an energy and enthusiasm that my JW self never could have conceived. The seconds tick away, and I know that life has more to see and do than I can ever achieve.
No matter how hard I try, I know now that I will die with many items on my “to-do” list unfulfilled.
This knowledge has not crippled me: it has set me free to focus on what truly fulfils me. It has empowered me to cast away the dawdling, casual wastes of time I indulged in when I felt life was infinite. The things I was putting on hold are now the core of my life, and I have lived more since I left the cult than I ever did during my imprisonment.
Yet I left my brothers behind.
Brothers in chains
1226928328176I know the potential that is chained and suppressed in the brothers I left behind.
They are musicians and artists so talented and bursting with potential it would make you weep. They are scientists and philosophers who could contribute vastly to the human condition, saving lives and minds, who instead clean windows because they are waiting for a paradise that will never come. They are wonderful parents who will never have children because they are using their time to serve a lie for a phantom reward.
Time is bleeding them, and they do not even know it. Every year that goes by is another year of wasted opportunities, where choices narrow and options shrink. I cannot bare the thought that the brothers I love will look back one day, with fading eyes and struggling breath, on a life of wasted potential and disappointment, and wish that they could have gotten out of the cult whilst there was still time to live.
I yearn to give them the same chance I had: to obtain all of the information they have previously been denied, and make an informed choice.
Yet this is hard to do.
If I were to attempt to discuss this directly with them, I know they would simply refuse to engage, and that any lingering threads of friendship still existing between us would be severed. The cult that imprisons them has driven its hooks in deep, and any rising impulse to directly engage with me on this subject would be dragged back down on a razor-blade leash.
Yet I remember my own path. Growing evermore disquieted by increasingly extreme and illogical Watchtower teachings. Reaching out in secret to online activists. JWfacts.com. JWsurvey.org. Google. Youtube. Raymond Franz. Weighing the facts they presented against Watchtower’s claims.
And finally becoming free.
That is a path my brothers can walk. It is a path I am increasingly sure many of them will. The only question is; will they do it whilst there is still time to live a real life?
So this is why I do what I do.
To help pile legal and media pressure on Watchtower, forcing it to make increasingly extreme and damaging mistakes in public that reveal its deceitful and harmful core.
To raise public awareness of those mistakes, to make them so unavoidable and exposed that my brothers cannot help but become aware of them, rusting the chains and straining the leash that the cult has placed around their minds.
To help grow the online resources available to my brothers so that when they do make their choice to reach out for the facts, in secret and trembling from fear, they have every possible chance of choosing to free themselves from their chains as soon as possible and spend whatever time they have left genuinely living, rather than being told how to live.
I seek not to drag my brothers away from their faith against their will. If they choose to remain, so be it, but let it be an informed choice.
I seek no followers. Follow no man. Question everything, then follow only your own conscience and the conclusions you draw through your own powers of reason and critical thinking. Understand that truth fears no enquiry, but that falsehood is terrified of questioning.
Choose your life. Never allow another to choose it for you. Carve out your own destiny from the time you have with your own two hands. My Brothers deserve this chance just as much as I.
Leave no man behind
Tmaxresdefaulthere is a moment in the war film Black Hawk Down that captures with simple elegance why I feel compelled to do what I do in trying to hold Watchtower to account.
In the scene I refer to, a soldier (played by actor Eric Bana) is given an opportunity to stand down from the harrowing battle and recover in the safety of his base of operations. He refuses, and instead goes back into the danger of the war-zone to try and rescue his trapped fellow soldiers. When challenged on the apparent insanity of this act, he replies.
When I go home, and people ask me, “Hey Hoot, why do you do it, man? Why? You some kind of war junkie?” I won’t say a goddamn word. Why? They won’t understand. They won’t understand why we do it.
They won’t understand it’s about the men next to you… and that’s it.
That’s all it is.
Leave no man behind.
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← Why Watchtower should be ashamed of its new homophobic child propaganda cartoon
51 Responses to The Friday Column: Leave no man behind
Bill Thinker says:
May 6, 2016 at 7:18 am
Thank you for your thought-provoking article. We all have the responsibility to “leave no man behind”.
Reply
Ren says:
May 6, 2016 at 7:34 am
Hello Covert Fade
I really appreciate this article and it resonates with me profoundly. Do I understand from the last bit of text that you may be going back in? I ask because I have often thought about it myself. I have a daughter and two grandchildren still in. I haven’t seen them in two years. The only way I could talk with her is if I was “back in,” and I often wonder if I were there with her, in the trenches so to speak, if I could help her out, expose her to what I know, passively of course. The thought is beyond overwhelming, and I’m not sure it would even work, but if there’s a chance . . .
Reply
Covert Fade says:
May 6, 2016 at 9:27 am
Hey there.
I don’t think I’d be able to go back in, to be honest. I simply don’t have the kind of willpower that would be required to play along and pretend to believe in things I despise. I’m in awe of those who are able to stay in for the sake of family and friends, but they have a gift of willpower I that I don’t have.
Reply
chuck says:
May 6, 2016 at 8:00 am
that religion cost me the woman I love,
even tho, I didn’t get her,almost 50 years later.
I still love her, still as strong as all those years ago,
maybe some day, the big guy in the sky will send her to me
Reply
John ship says:
May 7, 2016 at 10:33 am
Same for me she was salvation army id just started study with jws.it was the blood issue
.she could not agree..i now have friended her on facbook.we both70 now…if it wasent for WT what might have been …thats life.
Reply
Jeffreycanning says:
May 6, 2016 at 8:05 am
Just now I was thinking back to when they threw me out, Coral and Mary drove round the corner almost crashed looking sideways so as not to have to make eye contact with me… They were on their way to Toorak to choose the mansions they were shortly to inherit… (Around 1974). Nothing to do with the great article you wrote, thought just popped into my head.
Reply
Anonymous says:
May 6, 2016 at 8:16 am
This is what I am dealing with and I appreciate you bringing it up. My brothers are people who have been there for me in ways that most wouldn’t even consider bothering themselves about. When people tell me dismissively “oh, these people aren’t your friends because they’ll leave you in the end, you should move on from them”; its insulting because it is simply not that simple or neatly-packaged as “they don’t really care and that’s that”. Yes, they are plugged in, but we care for each other because we understand each other’s true selves. Not many people you meet, really understand you, even if they care about you. If this something that we eventually have to walk away from, we will all be fighting it, and it will be the loss of a lifetime.
Reply
Brother from Austria says:
May 6, 2016 at 8:59 am
Thank you!
Reply
Big B says:
May 6, 2016 at 9:05 am
Covert Fade;
A wonderful, thought provoking piece. Truthful as well as poignant; well done.
Verily, this is a battle; a battle being fought worldwide for the hearts and souls of close to 8 million slaves held in bondage to a soul-sucking cult. “Yes”, they say, “serve Jehovah (the Watchtower) now. Wait for the real life to come in the New System.” The catch is after 100 years of false predictions and promises it hasn’t come and the New System is nowhere in sight. Maybe by the year 2033 A.D. after 2,000 years since the death and supposed Resurrection of Jesus, maybe then….maybe.
Poor deluded fools, blinded by FOG (Fear, Obligation and Guilt). They should not be hated but pitied. For at one time we were just like them but we finally were helped to break free. “Free at Last, Free at Last, thank God Almighty we’re Free at Last!” MLK,Jr.
Reply
Michel says:
May 6, 2016 at 9:27 am
Great column. Thank you!
Reply
MARS says:
May 6, 2016 at 9:30 am
I grew up during 1973 -1984 era . My old KH congregation was run by an old guard of brothers who were related to each other. They dominated every congregation that used the hall. The fact that some of us were told to put off marrige came from old men who were married themselves. My congo we had few girls to the ratio of boys . Girls and boys never socialized, or were seen talking to each other. We were all watched by these old men in tight pants . If a girl found a boy friend out side of the hall , shed be called in a JC meeting quickly if word got out. The fear mongering 80s was filled with doom and gloom talks . Most of all talks about Demons to frightened us into submission. Those were my memories.
Reply
Sval says:
May 6, 2016 at 6:12 pm
I grew up in the org around the same time. I remember my mother reading my younger brother and I experiences out of the yearbook about the horrible things the brothers were going through in Malawi because the society wouldn’t let then buy a political card. We were told that we would eventually have to face persecution to prove our loyalty. I was a child. I was terrified all the time for fear the authorities would raid our house and take me off to a concentration camp. I can’t tell you how I long to get my childhood back and be raised normally. That can’t happen so I just concentrate on my like now and the future that lies ahead without the influences of this awful organization.
Reply
if only says:
May 6, 2016 at 10:29 am
This has made me cry. So much time wasted. Yet there were many happy times, good times, fun times. But because of this organization I can no longer share them with my old friends. I wonder sometimes with my old friends when they are reminiscing, if they do say ”Do you remember when ******** did this or do you remember when ********* did that.” I hope they laugh at the memory, and not think bad thoughts about my choice to leave. I hope the ones that knew me well, and knew my dedication will one day ask me why I don’t return, and genuinely listen, and most of all hear my reply. You see I didn’t leave them behind either. But behind is where they are.
Reply
Fanned Fret says:
May 6, 2016 at 10:44 am
Decisions are the hardest thing to make especially when it is a choice between where you should be and where you WANT to be. It’s never too late to make the right choice.
Reply
ruthlee says:
May 6, 2016 at 11:40 am
Such a beautiful article, such poignant words. They made me feel quite tearful but not sad. It is like saying goodbye to that wicked lover who cheated and cheated and couldn’t stop themselves despite protestations of true love. The first time our lover org cheated on us we were blissfully unaware and when it dawned, boy did we hurt. Sorry my analogy is a bit off from MrC’s ie war and true brothers in arms.It is true some will have great loss when they leave the org for good but some of us never really fitted so we won’t be mourned or grieved over and that hurts on a different level because our opportunities of youth are long gone and we leave no lasting contribution to this life and we won’t be missed by even pseudo friends. So enough of this maudlin stuff ive got a life to live I’m off to see a rock band tonight and gonna rock on cheers Ruthlee.
Reply
Roman Castañeda says:
May 6, 2016 at 12:32 pm
Very powerful article here! This is truth at its simplest form. Great job Covert Fade!
Reply
Sharon Christensen says:
May 6, 2016 at 1:15 pm
I agree with all comments…wonderful article! Brought me to tears to…sad tears…but also happy freedom tears…tears of heartache, for all who have suffered and cont to suffer sooo much loss and sadness from such a horrible orgy, who falsely claims God’s backing. It is not easy to turn and go from family and friends, and even worse, if these are ripped from you forcefully, by heartless men,who dictate how one must feel and act. Tears of pride for those, who like yourself feel the need to…not leave a brother behind, and keep trying to get this evil and corrupt orgy to answer and suffer like they make others do…May there be a God of Justice in the end, and may He make them suffer as they have made and cont to make so many to suffer. Thanx soooo very much Covert, much” Brotherly Love.”… Keep up the good work!
Reply
Rowland Nelken says:
May 6, 2016 at 1:50 pm
Brilliant piece of writing! And encouraging in the most practical way. Mega exposure of JW cruelty and stupidity on the internet and other media is clearly having its effect.
A uniformly ghastly public image will make JWdom unsaleable. How many folk today would sing the praises of Hitler or Stalin? Back in the 1930s these deranged monsters had plenty of fans amongst folks who were not essentially gullible or simple minded; some of them, like Henry Williamson, a Hitler admirer, and George Bernard Shaw, a cheerleader for Stalin, were quite brilliant.
Even us oldies might yet live to see the collapse of the Watchtower.
Reply
Average Joe says:
May 6, 2016 at 2:48 pm
Lovely article mate. Still taking it all in. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.
Reply
Man from the lions pit says:
May 6, 2016 at 2:57 pm
Thanks CF!
Emotional ,honest and touching article with relevant analogy.However I have to say that I’m sadden that I did lost another brother in faith.The scarfs this org. leave are lasting,deep and painful.In every case where the affected one lost completely the hope and faith in better world “paradise” I do feel like I left brother behind ,I lost a brother.
Best wishes my bro & big hugs on your new journey!
Reply
1914 ha ha ha says:
May 6, 2016 at 3:35 pm
i feel so sorry for the older ones still caught in this cult, watching the flip flops, money grabs, overlapping bs. IE my mum and dad.
Reply
Twmack says:
May 6, 2016 at 5:24 pm
Great article CF got me reminiscing about my own
journey. I did the window cleaning stint 17 years,
always a struggle to make a living so much bad
weather in England.
I left a good job in engineering because I allowed
myself to be persuaded that working with worldly
people was a drain on ones spirituality and that they
were basically bad inside.
Nothing could be further from the truth. I worked
with some splendid men, men who were happy to pass
on valuable skills to me a younger man, no thought of
jealousy that I could become better than them and take
their job. There was some barrack room language and
good natured ribbing, but nothing evil or Satanic.
Started studying in 58, and like every other JW I felt
let down when after 8 years of intensive hype 1975
fizzled out like a damp squib. Many disappointed
people left. At a National Assembly shortly afterwards
one speaker referred to these ones. He said, let them go
we don’t want them, they were just opportunists.
I persevered with the org until 1982, when after the
witch hunt at headquarters they started to really turn the
screw. If we had even private thoughts that did not align
with the org, we were proud, independent, rebellious ,
just like Satan. That was the last straw for me
I’ve been out 34 years, In that time along with my wife I
qualified as a professional ballroom dancer and teacher,
It was something I was always interested in but shelved it
for the more urgent kingdom work not to mention
disapproving comments. Overjoyed that I woke up with
a good few years ahead of me.
Y life of uncertain span. Please. don’t waste it on a
proven failure, a mirage.
Reply
Holly Chu says:
May 6, 2016 at 8:41 pm
Lovely and so accurately presented comment. Exactly consistent with my general and personal experience with Watchtower. And I so love your inclusion of the Org’s favorite phrase “urgent work”
Reply
Velta Maes says:
May 7, 2016 at 4:26 pm
twmack, Looks like you left about the same time we did. We had been witnesses for over 45 years. Got married, against the advice of the Society and had 4 children. Although we did not sacrifice our life for the WT, we truly believed they had the truth until we started reading just the Bible without the literature and found out we could ask for Holy Spirit. We were out in a year. We left in 1983 and were disfellowshipped for “apostasy”. We left family and friends there. I am so glad that you and your wife got out and were able to follow your dreams with the gifts that God gave you. The true God gives us dreams and gifts to follow. He is not the “Jehovah” of the Watchtower who steals our desires and substitutes false hopes. God bless you and keep you in His Will! Hugs, Gramma Velta
Reply
Frederick says:
May 6, 2016 at 5:33 pm
Interesting article, my best friend is still indoctrinated. The last time I saw him I passively raised some questions but it didn’t really seem to be sinking in. I remember feeling so sad when we parted ways, the guy is in his 30’s and he’s throwing his life away. Its such a fine line in trying to awaken someone. I faded in my early 20’s, I can’t imagine how terrible I’d feel if I threw away my adulthood. I just hope my childhood friend can start connecting the dots
Reply
Twmack says:
May 6, 2016 at 5:34 pm
One life of uncertain span was the intended was the
Intended sentence.
Reply
Elmer Groom says:
May 6, 2016 at 7:52 pm
After I left I found strength in in this song….https://youtu.be/VzGAYNKDyIU
Reply
Winston Smith says:
May 6, 2016 at 8:00 pm
Nice article; a thought provoking message. When I finally left I lost all my jw friends. Fortunately, as I was fading, I came upon several non-jw friends who I found I could count on (truly discovering people like this outside of “God’s Organization” helped me realize that not all worldly people were evil as I had been raised to believe). Upon leaving, however, I was also able to reconnect with old friends who had left before me. We now had an even stronger bond than before.
I don’t miss the old friendships at all. I think it’s because I now know they were conditional friendships, built on something that wasn’t real.
WS
Reply
Darlene says:
May 6, 2016 at 9:19 pm
I think you speak for so many… The thought of the time I’ve lost truly living, believing in this cult, still angers me. However, I am free now from the brainwash!!! Hallelujah!!!
Reply
vivian says:
May 6, 2016 at 9:49 pm
I dont understand the people watching the broadcasts, watching the gb dudes and how average and really unusual they come across, awkward and non emotional and they continue to make these peoples delusions their own delusions. I think about all the stuff Jesus would be working on and doing if he were on Earth compared to the crap they are producing. For me, the best tactic is to give a quick sincere bold statement then back off. It will grow in their minds if its honest and true.
Reply
Freed Mason says:
May 7, 2016 at 1:35 am
Great article, thank you so much Convert Fade for the time and effort that you and your fellow team members have put in to this and other articles.
I have a feeling that we have only seen the tip of the iceberg in terms of our former brothers and sisters who have woken up to what is really going on in the organisation. Social engineering never worked in the past and all indications are that it will not work in the future, just look at what happened to Hitler, Stalin, Apartheid South Africa, Affirmative Action and countless other failed social experiments. Sorry to say to our brothers and sisters left behind – the WBTS experiment has failed as well.
For those that feel leaving this prison is not worth the effort and it would be better to leave things as is – the comforting fact is that it is never too late to change your life or world view. How much better to focus your mind and energy on positive living and working on those things that give you a spark and love for life as mentioned in this article.
My 81 year old mom still reads her bible every day and is still a member, she has always had the courage to speak out against abusive elders, shunning, hypocrisy of taking blood fractions, discouraged higher education, etc and I love her for it, she has however become conditioned over decades that this is the best that life gets. I feel very sad that she still has this daily fight at her age and has lived most of her life on pause – never pursuing her dreams.
Please don’t be another victim of this experiment.
Reply
Sarah says:
May 7, 2016 at 3:12 am
Why give up on eternal life? If WT is unfaithful by serving up their own ideas then the organization won’t survive. But there are many decent people who do not steal, lie or murder. The prophet Elijah once thought he was the only one in Israel faithful to God, but it turns out God knew of 7,000 faithful ones.
Living with death in view gives you a sort of anxiety which makes it hard to deal with periods of boredom or having to deal with situations you don’t want to be in. It could also make us selfish – not wanting to give time to others we could use for ourselves – not that I’m saying this is the case.
Just a thought.
Reply
Winston Smith says:
May 7, 2016 at 4:32 am
Sarah,
Not intending to open up a philosophical debate, but when we look at life on this planet, everything is finite. All things have a set time and then they are gone. This includes humans. It even appears that our sun and all the planets in our solar system may cease to exist one day.
This knowledge doesn’t cause me any anxiety. I live each day so as to make it the best it can be. If I find myself in an unpleasant situation, I take steps to change the situation or find ways to make it work for me. And I am never bored.
Dreaming that at some point there will be some magical change or that at some point in the future we will get a second chance at life is like taking a placebo. It may make us think we feel better, but it does not change reality. It may even do harm if it causes us to stop trying to be the very best in life, as it has done with so many JWs.
When we die, we may go to some wonderful place of bliss, heaven if you will, but no one can say for sure as none have ever returned from such a place. And some day a divine being may step in and fix all our problems. We cannot totally rule it out. However, based on experience it won’t be any time soon. Thus we need to take responsibility for our own lives and do all that we can to leave this planet a better place once we are gone.
That’s my thought on it.
WS
Reply
dee2 says:
May 7, 2016 at 7:07 am
“Living with death in view………could also make us selfish – not wanting to give time to others we could use for ourselves – not that I’m saying this is the case.”
But is it realistic to believe that you are going to live forever? Is it true that you are going to live forever?
Reply
dee2 says:
May 7, 2016 at 3:29 pm
Sarah,
“Why give up on eternal life?”
Isn’t it also selfish if one needs to have the promise of the reward of eternal life in order to be able “to give time to others we could use for ourselves”?
It seems to me that the real test of unselfishness is if one doesn’t have the promise of the reward of eternal life yet you are able “to give time to others we could use for ourselves”.
“Living with death in view gives you a sort of anxiety which makes it hard to deal with periods of boredom or having to deal with situations you don’t want to be in.”
The promise of the reward of eternal life can perhaps help in these situations but what if eternal life is not real, what if it is just a phantom reward?
Reply
Markie says:
May 7, 2016 at 4:50 am
The problem must JWs have is that they put their faith in men. That is the governing body, elders etc…. The bible tells ua not to put our faith in men. I did what I felt was right for me. I got an education. My kids all do. I just tell them to never mention it at the KH. It’s worked pretty well. One is in law school and another is getting a master’s and no one at the hall knows.
I would never listen to those stupid tapes, kingdom melodies etc. Years ago I had a led Zeppelin cassette on in the car and my wife changed it and put in a kingdom melody. She asked me if it was bothering me and I said it was and threw it out the window were it belonged. Never listened to one since.
My point is do what you want. Pursue what you want. Don’t let anyone tell you what is right for you. Never go to an elder, once they drive out of the kingdom hall parking their only place where they get some sort of valadation in life goes away. Truly sad.
The very fact that they sold Brooklyn and used all those people’s time to move to Warwick tells you to live your life to the fullest. Take care of yourself. They are taking care of themselves with other people’s money.
Reply
Caroline says:
May 7, 2016 at 7:03 am
I was baptized in 1966 at the age of 19. I wasn’t a born-in. I came in after I left home. I fell in love with a born-in and we got married. Since he was a born-in and I wasn’t, his mother was always suspicious of me but I really loved him and I thought it would be forever. I thought we would never get old and die because that is what the Society taught and I believed it.
He died two months ago after a year long battle in pain, fighting cancer and instead of looking back at fond memories, all I have is painful memories of both of our lives wasted.
I expected him to be perfect because the Society makes it look like if you marry a JW, that they will be the perfect husband and father. He expected me to be perfect as well because the Society makes people think that jw women are the perfect wife and mother. We went through our 49 years of marriage always being disappointed in each other.
Most of the time we got along okay but three years ago, I saw that he was doing porn on the internet and I turned him into the elders and he got publicly reproved. I thought he was sinning against Jehovah and so Jehovah was withholding his holy spirit from the congregation and I actually wanted him disfellowshipped but instead they “only” publicly reproved him and then shortly afterwards, they told him that if he went in service more and attended more meetings that he’d be able to answer again at the meetings and even that made me angry.
That was so upsetting to me that I went online for support and that’s when I came across jwsurvey and jwfacts etc. and Ray Franz’s books and I actually was glad that what happened to my husband was the thing that sent me searching and I found out that the Society is not and never has been appointed by Jehovah and Jehovah’s spirit was never on the organization in the first place and the elders had no business being in my husband’s and my business.
I told my husband that if I had it to do over again that I would never have involved the elders and reading Ray Franz’s books is why I would never have done that to him but it was too late and I do believe the public humiliation of being publicly reproved led to him being so depressed that he got cancer and I have to live with that for the rest of my life now.
My husband didn’t agree with me about Ray Franz but at least I tried to make him feel better, even though, right up until he died, he thought that it really was the Society was the “truth” and he died with the hope of being resurrected on a paradise earth.
When I knew he was going to die, I shut up about what I had learned about the “truth” because at least he had that to keep his mind off of being dead forever and I didn’t want to take that away from him then.
The point of my story is that the Society has never been appointed by God and no matter what they say, they don’t know any more about the Bible or life than any one of us. They are just egomaniacs who think they know it all and Witnesses (me included) believed that they were being talked to by God. They have no authority over us and they never did.
Please don’t get involved in that religion. It will ruin your life, your children’s life, your parent’s life, your husband’s life or your wife’s life, your grandparents life and anybody who works with you. It will ruin your personality and make you an egomaniac too, thinking that only you have a good relationship with God and you don’t. It’s all in Witnesses’ minds. They are all being led along like a bull with a ring in it’s nose and don’t even know it. They don’t know they are wasting such a precious thing called life.
It’s so sad.
Reply
Patrika says:
May 7, 2016 at 7:57 am
So sorry Caroline.
Reply
dee2 says:
May 7, 2016 at 8:37 am
Hi Caroline,
Sorry to hear about the death of your husband. Death, though a reality of this life is never pleasant to deal with.
Hope you will be able to find support during your time of grief as you say goodbye to what was, and get ready for that which is yet to come.
I have always enjoyed your comments in this forum.
Best regards.
Reply
Markie says:
May 7, 2016 at 8:43 am
I have always said, if you want to make your problem worse, go to the elders. I am sure the brothers on his committee all gazed at Internet porn themselves.
Reply
Winston Smith says:
May 7, 2016 at 9:48 am
My sincerest condolences on the loss of your husband, Caroline. Don’t blame yourself for his depression and subsequent cancer. His depression was a result of the egomaniacs in the Watchtower organization and their litany of rules and regulations.
And don’t feel that your life was wasted because of the JW influence. Sure, they had a harmful influence, but they never had total control over you. That you eventually woke up once you had the resources available to you is a key indicator of this. And I am sure if you look back with an honest assessment of your life you will see both triumphs and disappointments. That’s true for everyone whether they were in this cult or not.
When you have lost someone so close to you for so long, it’s hard to see that your life isn’t over. You still have a lot of potential for the future, and although it might be hard to see right now, there is a bright future ahead of you. When you are ready it will be waiting for you.
WS
Reply
Freed Mason says:
May 7, 2016 at 10:43 am
Sorry Caroline, you are a loving and caring person, please don’t blame yourself, you can be forced to do very irrational things when your mind is being played with, you have had the courage and strength to realize this, all the best to you for your future!
Reply
Tara says:
May 7, 2016 at 1:42 pm
Caroline I am so sorry to hear your husband has died. My thoughts and love are with you. xxx
Reply
Erik says:
May 7, 2016 at 5:57 pm
Hard to agree that the depression caused his cancer! Remember- “Time and unforeseen occurrence befall us all”!!!
Reply
Tara says:
May 7, 2016 at 7:04 am
I sat with my granddaughter this weekend and she asked me why I no longer go to the hall. I don’t often see her as she lives a long way a way with her mother. My ex daughter in law, who’s family are all in JW’s. He Uncle is an elder in my hall. I could have told my granddaughter all sorts of things but in the end I asked her some questions. I found out she had no idea that there was a hierarchy within the WT. She didn’t really understand who the CO was let alone there was a GB. I I asked her ‘if someone does something really, really naughty what should you do?’ She said go to the Police. At that point I was able to tell her, in a way a 7 year old could understand, that the GB, even when they knew something very naughty was going on, didn’t tell the Police. She saw straight away that, that was wrong. “The police are there to help us Grandma! How can they stop bad things happening if we don’t tell them?’ Out of the mouths of babes eh.
She asked about the fires in Alberta…. we are in Canada. She said that in the Paradise there would be no more fires… I think it was then that I started to sob inside. Yes, she is slowly being indoctrinated. I asked her if she understood Baptism. ‘No, not really’. So I said to her that it is something that I want her to promise me she won’t do until she is a grown up and until she has spoken to other people and not just JW’s. I asked her to ask questions of her own. Hopefully, she will see that her non witness family do fun stuff with other people who are not JW’s. That just because she is told it is bad and evil to ‘celebrate’ as she puts it, we are not bad people. She is the only one behind… I will not leave her there. I will hang on till the bitter end to bring her out. If I fail, then I can but only say ‘I tried’.
Reply
John ship says:
May 7, 2016 at 10:40 am
I brought up my two sons in the org .one baptised one not i made them wait till 16 before they decided ..ive got grandchildren in the jws .i worry they will be pushed into baptism…im out mentaly trying to fade as im hanging in for family. But its becoming harder and harder to sit thru the nonsense that is now being pumped out at especialy the mid week meeting .its a struggle
Reply
Winston Smith says:
May 7, 2016 at 11:35 am
John ship
I can relate to your feelings. I remember just trying to make it through the meetings and keep quiet about things I knew were just total BS. Eventually something has got to give. For me I just slowly stopped going until I was totally gone. It’s hard when you have family. But once you’ve woken up, it’s just too hard to keep listening to the rhetoric. I haven’t been to a meeting (other than a couple memorials that I gave in and went to in order to appease family) for almost 3 years and I am happier for it. When I was first fading, I confided in an old friend who had faded years before. She told me “at some point, you will wake up on a Sunday morning and realize you have no where you have to go, just your whole day to yourself; It will be great.” I am finally there and you know what? My friend was right.
WS
Reply
Twmack says:
May 7, 2016 at 12:06 pm
Caroline, Your comments have always been an
inspiration to me and I’m sure to many others.
I can tell you are a strong intelligent woman who is
more than capable of resolving any issues in your
life without any help from me.
What I can say though, is that we all screw up,
sometimes badly and it’s too painful to keep
scourging ourselves by replaying these things
over and over in the mind. I’m trying not to do it
anymore.
So sorry about the loss of your husband, my thoughts
are with you, as I’m sure are those of many others
on this site, who have been encouraged by your
comments.
Reply
Caroline says:
May 7, 2016 at 12:34 pm
Thank you all for your comments. It’s a certain kind of hell former Jehovah’s Witnesses or active Jehovah’s Witnesses go through when we lose someone close to us, especially if we feel responsible for either getting them disfellowshipped and they committed suicide or they get cancer and die from being publicly reproved or they die because of blood. There are no words to describe that kind of hell and you wonder if you will ever be happy again.
There is so much blood guilt on the head of the governing Body of the Watchtower Society of New York because of the millions of lives that they have destroyed.
Nobody can appreciate how horrible it is until we go through it ourselves and now I know how others like me have suffered in similar situations.
Reply
Bad Penny says:
May 7, 2016 at 1:55 pm
A thought provoking article Covert, and one that must touch the heart of every ex JW out there.
I was one of those from the ‘world’, who along with my partner, took hold of the JW carrot at the age of 29. I spent the next 30 years striving to do Watchtower bidding until the wake-up call in 2013. Reading Ray Franz book opened my eyes – his words were saying just how I felt. Further research confirmed that this one time love affair with Watchtower had been a waste of my time and my life. It was a lie!
I still feel bitterness towards the GB and have to stop myself from kicking over those dreaded trolleys, but as they say, time is a great healer. We can’t undo the past, we can only change our future. Unfortunately, the scars remain.
Reply
Alice says:
May 7, 2016 at 5:09 pm
This web site reminds me of a self help group I once attended called The Compassionate Friends. It’s a group that meets together to help parents who have lost their children to death. I went to this group for a year after my ten year old son died. The majority of the parents who attended had lost their children to drowning in swimming pool accidents. A doctor started the group when he realized that parents who had lost their children to death were the best for helping other parents going through the same experience. This sort of help is going on here. The people who come to this website are going through different stages in their own personal dealings with the JW religion. I’ve been through all of the stages. First denial. I thought I could bluff my family into thinking I was still a JW. Then came anger. I couldn’t hide my true feelings towards the JW religion from my family as I woke up more and more… Now I’m going through acceptance of my family situation. They are indoctrinated. I’m not. I understand they’re indoctrinated so I love them, I understand them, I forgive them, I’m ready to let go. And I have moved on. I no longer have to look over my shoulder. I tired of being a hypocrite but I wanted to be with my family at the time. My anxiety is gone. I’m very calm. I was ready to let go. Good for me. But I understand what people are going through. I went through it. Thank you
Reply
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19 Responses to Videos
KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:
August 25, 2013 at 6:55 pm
With every word they reveal and “impart” far more than they ever intended…
Reply
george says:
August 27, 2013 at 4:45 am
Sorry Cedars, I can only access the first video on my I pad. There are a lot of over sized play icons and they won’t work.
Reply
Luke says:
October 27, 2013 at 5:27 pm
Continue the good work on this site that expose what Watchtower Organization really are — a fanatic end-time driven cult that only serve interests of its leaders. I left this
cult three years ago for good. My only regret is that I had not left the Watchtower Cult earlier! On Easter Sunday this year, I was baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and received into Eastern Orthodox Church, apostolic Church that preserved the Faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
Cedar, you have my blessings of your work on this site that
will yet help millions of JWs to see the truth of so-called ‘Truth’.
Reply
Fred says:
November 2, 2013 at 12:09 pm
Forget taking your numbers from a 1974 yearbook if you question the amount of those killed, interned, etc get the numbers from the Holocaust museum. You forgot to mention the ‘JEWS’ were and its quoted several times in the Watchtower publications as it is related in the bible, “ONCE GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE” but they did not remain that because of their actions. Your quotes from WT publications are based on the latter that they fell out of favour in God’s eyes. They therefor were NOT written in an anti-Semitic nature. Many Jews have become JW’s over the years are they lesser beings because they were of Jewish blood?…ABSOLUTELY NOT! All races are equal so this video in my opinion is twisted in its presentation. Not to mention the ridiculous claim of Rutherford’s so called love letter to Adolf Hitler. No blinders on here, I have checked the facts. Sorry but this video paints an untruthful twist of events and statements about the WT as regards the comments on the Nazi’s and Jews.
Reply
Palma says:
February 28, 2014 at 3:48 am
Hi everybody! Hi cedars!
I found this article about a discovery in egypt that brings light to the origin of story of joseph in the bible.
What do you think?http://www.davidovits.info/the-lost-fresco-and-the-bible-my-new-book-in-french/
Reply
Idris says:
March 27, 2014 at 8:12 am
Thank you for this page, it has been a great help to me, as I seek the truth of the word of God, however I noticed in the video ‘Does the Bible speak of ‘Paradise Earth’ the speaker quotes Luke 21v43 twice, regarding Jesus word on the cross, there should be a correction note as the verse he mentions is in Luke 23 v 43.
Keep up the good work
Reply
Julia Orwell says:
July 17, 2014 at 3:47 am
Been to internationals before and this elaborate souvenir thing is entirely new. The last one I went to in 2009, the last ones they had, had nothing like this so it’s not a matter of you having not noticed it in the past, it’s a matter of it being a new phenomenon.
I theorize that the wt motives for this involve keeping the masses busy and therefore obedient. Jws would volunteer to do this because there are no other legitimate outlets for creative expression. Armageddon being near has nothing to do with it: it’s about keeping the sheeple busy and happy. Making stupid trinkets is also a team building activity as it involves jws working together, thus reinforcing the herd mentality jws have.
Reply
frankie fernandez says:
February 27, 2015 at 4:44 pm
dear friends I was baptized in 1974. Thank God I am no longer a member of the WT. Free at last and oh what a relief it is. A member of my former congregation who I considerd my best friend molested a minor. There was a big argument amognst the elders on the judicial committee. One elder who was a maverick, wanted to notify the police. But, instead they followed the instuctions of the society. They kept this crime against the child, hush hush. So as not to tarnish the name of Jehovah. But in reality it was a coverup to protect the wt’s reputation. Meanwhile this poor child that was raped has to carry the heavy burden of a victim for the rest of thier lives without compensation and without justice. While the abuser has remaind a member in good standing. The congregation he is attending now has not been notified that he is a sexual preditor.
Reply
Holy Connoli says:
November 17, 2015 at 1:14 am
Frankie.If I were you I would turn him into the police now even though it may have been several years ago he committed this crime. Many sexual predators get turned in years later after the crime is reveled. At the very least he will be investigated and his Name will be mud for being a creep.
He deserves it and so does the WT for its NON protection of the flock and not caring for the victim but only their phony reputation.
Reply
Lesley HUmphreys-Jones says:
February 15, 2016 at 10:10 am
Tell the police.
Reply
Kirtley W. Burggraf says:
March 11, 2015 at 11:16 am
Tell me, since governing body members are elected (replacing someone who dies) at what point do do they become “divinely inspired” or “spirit guided”? Were they always thus in the lower ranks or does this just “happen” the moment that they are appointed? What’s Watchtower’s take on this?
Reply
Alone in MD says:
March 31, 2015 at 6:00 pm
Regards your video on the Memorial Service. I am one of those “non believers” married to a baptized witness. I go to just keep the peace but I’ve made it known that I consider this service one of the worst religious ceremonies that I have ever been to. “Anointed What”. Also it was announced at last years meeting that “this may be the last memorial service”. They are at it again. Thanks for the great videos.
Reply
frankie fernandez says:
May 10, 2015 at 9:50 pm
IF CHRIST WAS ENTHRONGED IN 1914, WHY ARE THE WITNESES STILL CELEBRATING THE MEMORIAL? CHRIST SAID THAT AFTER HIS ARRIVAL NO ONE WAS TO CELEBRATE THE MEMORIAL .ALSO HE SAID THAT THE DAY OF HIS PRESENSE, IT WILL BE LIKE LIGHTNING FROM ONE POINT OF THE EARTH TO ANOTHER. LIGHTNING TRAVELS AT THE SPEED OF 3500 MILES PER SECOUND. SO IT WILL TRAVEL AROUND THE GLOBE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE. HE ALSO SAID THAT ALL EYES WILL SEE HIM. NOT LIKE THE WTS THAT SAYS WE ARE IN HIS INVISIBLE PRESENSE.
Reply
pj wilcox says:
July 31, 2015 at 3:21 am
I watched the latest video of the inept elder being questioned by the commission. Who prepared this man for testimony? You all are aware of the dentist who shot Cecil the lion in Kenya? Well his life is over. He is in hiding. What he did ,did not break laws in Kenya and his is in a world of trouble with public sentiment. But this elder being questioned is far worse. He covered deeds that drove people to think of killing themselves. Should he not go into hiding? Is his life over? Has he know conscience? Emotion, caring? You know the answer. Bet ya, damage control is working overtime on this.
Reply
Adrian says:
September 8, 2015 at 3:32 am
I think the Royal Commission videos demonstrate that fragility of the governance within the WT society. Yes, it’s an Australia branch issue but cross examination only points to the seat of control on which the governing body members sit. Everything starts and stops with the governing body, they set the policy but where are they? Sitting comfortably in NY watching from a distance ready to abdicate any responsibility whatsoever. A governing body governs and leads but I see no leadership I see the followers talking and being bashed around the head with questions, all too easy for the legal team.
However, it might just be me but does anyone else not see the lawyer’s gap in knowledge regarding the fundamental rationale for the WT society policies, they fall back in their comfort zone knowing that they can say ‘well we don’t have the authority to go beyond the bible.’
It’s this gap in knowledge of the legal representatives which the WT society exploit. I mean nobody is going to ask ‘ where actually did this translation come from anyway?’ What were the academic qualifications of the translators? Is there a possibility that you have interpreted things wrongly or even worse, translated things incorrectly? If there’s a possibility that your interpretation on how to deal with modern day child abuse cases in congregations may be flawed, then are you in agreement that your policies could result in lasting harm to victims of abuse? In my view that translation is the ‘elephant in the room’ every scholar knows it’s perverse but no one is holding this cult to account. So easy to say it’s all in the bible but should they really be saying it’s all in the NWT instead?
The WT society in the videos almost give of an innocence as if to say, ‘ but that’s what we understand from the scriptures’, and I think it works in their favor, but a savvy legal representative would do well to tease out the basis for the rendering of certain verses on which doctrine, policy and organisational decisions are based. So far the WT Society appears to be one step ahead because their authority is not a person but a book, which they are ‘only trying to understand and live by’. Expose the origin of the NWT and the basis for so many ridiculous uncaring decisions is called into question.
Reply
Rick Viger says:
November 10, 2015 at 3:26 pm
Thanks John for all you do with your videos.
I’m an ex JW for 40 years now. I hope your videos reach some witnesses and make them think. For all of you that have left Watchtower remember you made the right decision.
Reply
S.T. says:
November 24, 2015 at 9:48 pm
I was wondering if anyone has heard that Jehovah’s witnesses are telling there congregations that the end of this system could have only hours left? My sister who is a Jehovah’s Witness said they are preaching this at the congregations. Has anyone else heard this?
Reply
Paul says:
April 3, 2016 at 10:24 pm
Indoctrination and mind control in its purest form. Will the BS never end, and is hard for me to understand why JW’S put up with this.
Reply
ian York says:
April 13, 2016 at 4:15 pm
It is hard to fathom how anybody could believe in the legitimacy of Watchtower’s claim to be God’s only organization on earth today when considering it started with the likes if this oaf. One would have to have a belief in predestination, an unscriptural concept, in order to square the circle of the now regarded apostate beliefs if the founder members and today’s dogma.
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