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Why did Jehovah want to kill Moses?
by Doug Mason a day ago 14 Replies latest 2 hours ago   watchtower bible
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Doug Mason
Doug Mason a day ago

On the way, at a place where they spent the night, the LORD met him and tried to kill him. But Zipporah took a flint and cut off her son's foreskin, and touched Moses' feet with it, and said, "Truly you are a bridegroom of blood to me!" So he let him alone. It was then she said, "A bridegroom of blood by circumcision." (Exodus 4:24-26, NRSV)
At a lodging place on the way, the Lord met Moses and was about to kill him. But Zipporah took a flint knife, cut off her son’s foreskin and touched Moses’ feet with it. “Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me,” she said. So the Lord let him alone. (At that time she said “bridegroom of blood,” referring to circumcision.) (NIV)
 As Moses and his family were traveling along and had stopped for the night, Jehovah appeared to Moses and threatened to kill him. Then Zipporah his wife took a flint knife and cut off the foreskin of her young son’s penis, and threw it against Moses’ feet, remarking disgustedly, “What a blood-smeared husband you’ve turned out to be!”
Then God left him alone. (TLB)
 +1 / -0
sowhatnow
sowhatnow a day ago
lol, well, Im sure there's a lot missing in that story..... there has to be! [I wonder, has that been passed over in the weekly bible reading, lol ]

 
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG a day ago

OMG! This must be one of those scriptures the WTBTS ignored when I was growing up.
DD
 +1 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon a day ago

It's so weird in the OT, what's the fascination with the foreskin?? Remember David
collected 200 of them.
 +4 / -0
Scully
Scully a day ago

It was because Moses broke the Abrahamic covenant - the one that required males to be circumcised on the 8th day of life - by (1) marrying outside the tribes and (2) allowing his wife, Zipporah, to carry on with her family traditions, which did not, apparently, include circumcision of the male children.
PS - I inquired about this scripture to one of the Elders™ when I was 14 or 15. His answer? "Why don't you do some research and tell me what you find." I guess he didn't know how to say "I really don't know."




 +6 / -0
freemindfade
freemindfade a day ago
The beat part is how moses wrote about his death (after he died) and said how he (himself) was the meekest man ever. Lol silly bible, go home you're drunk.
 +4 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon a day ago

The true story: Damn't Moses you have been moping around for days crying
like a baby, my son is not circumcised God is going to kill me. Grow some balls man.
Zipporah threw something in Moses face. Moses jumps and ask , what the hell is this?
Zipporah: it's your son's little foreskin you jerk.
Moses: are you nuts can my son walk, can he wee wee?
Hell woman I will sleep with one eye open for now on, you are one crazy woman,
they told me not to marry your crazy ass.
Don't you think that makes a better read???
 +1 / -0
garyneal
garyneal a day ago
https://youtu.be/ZyFM0_AhIYA?t=6m35s
 
Lieu
Lieu a day ago

'Cause he was getting on God's last nerve.☺
The first part when he runs from the staff turned snake is hilarious.
I can just imagine it ...'What the???? Bye!' I'm out.
 
Daniel1555
Daniel1555 a day ago

There are a few bible verses that are too crazy to find normal explanations. They are even too crazy for Watchtower, so they ignore them. That's one of those.
In all the years growing up in JW land, this vers was never discussed.
Because it shows that biblical Jehovah is a psycho.
 +1 / -0

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Why did Jehovah want to kill Moses?
by Doug Mason a day ago 14 Replies latest 2 hours ago   watchtower bible
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Half banana
Half banana a day ago
Note the stone age knife being used betraying the story's stone age mentality.
 
TheOldHippie
TheOldHippie a day ago

Not quite ignored, it is quoted in Insight, saying
Scholars have offered many interpretations of this passage, some of these being incorporated into modern Bible translations. (See CC, JB, Kx, La, NE, RS, as well as the German Zürcher Bibel, the Spanish Bover-Cantera and the French Crampon, Lienart, and Segond versions.) Such interpretations attempt to settle questions as to whether it was Moses’ or the child’s life that was threatened, whether Zipporah touched the feet of Moses or the feet of the child or the feet of the angel with the foreskin. They also venture opinions as to why Zipporah said (and to whom she said), “You are a bridegroom of blood to me.”
It seems that it was the child’s life that was in danger in view of what the law of circumcision states at Genesis 17:14; that Zipporah circumcised the child because she realized what was needed to set matters right; that she cast the foreskin at the feet of the angel who was threatening the child’s life to demonstrate her compliance with Jehovah’s law; that Zipporah addressed Jehovah through his representative angel when she exclaimed, “You are a bridegroom of blood to me,” doing so to show her acceptance of a wifely position in the circumcision covenant with Jehovah as the husband.—See Jer 31:32.
But there is no way of Scripturally settling such questions with certainty. The literal reading of the ancient Hebrew in this passage is veiled in the idioms used nearly 3,500 years ago. This is why literal translations (NW, Ro, Yg) and others (AS, KJ, Da, Dy, JP, Mo, Le), including the ancient Greek Septuagint, are not clear on these matters.
 
Room 215
Room 215 18 hours ago
Old Hippie, that's about as much as can be reasonably said about this very arcane passage.... 3,500 year-old Hebrew idioms indeed.
 
St George of England
St George of England 18 hours ago

Yet none of the children were circumcised during the 40 year trek in the wilderness without any problem.
This necessitated the mass circumcision when they reached the promised land.
Just fables.
George
 
Doug Mason
Doug Mason 2 hours ago

Thanks for the clarifications. I appreciate the collective scholarship.
I do have a question, though (no surprises there, I guess). The quotation by Old Hippe from the Insight book states:
"The literal reading of the ancient Hebrew in this passage is veiled in the idioms used nearly 3,500 years ago."
Am I correct in saying that one of the tenets of Higher Criticism is to take contemporary idioms into consideration when researching the Bible? If that were so, then the Watchtower here is employing Higher Criticism.
Doug

 

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Topic Summary
on the way, at a place where they spent the night, the lord met him and tried to kill him.
but zipporah took a flint and cut off her son's foreskin, and touched moses' feet with it, and said, "truly you are a bridegroom of blood to me!
it was then she said, "a bridegroom of blood by circumcision.



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The KEY WORD in Isaiah 44:25-26 is "Predictions" and the apostles NEVER made any predictions setting dates.
by Greybeard 5 months ago



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JWTV May Broadcast is up. hosted by an old burnt hot dog
by Dreamerdude a day ago 11 Replies latest 13 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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Dreamerdude
Dreamerdude a day ago
What's up with JW parents taking their minor children to such desolate places? Like the English family that took their little kids to the jungles of Ecuador, and the Australians that took their little ones to Norfolk Island where hardly anyone lives, and they are the only children in a congregation of 11 publishers? Is this a new form of child abuse?
 +8 / -3
Dreamerdude
Dreamerdude a day ago
Tony has an interesting way of bragging about his two Bethelite sons, that he thinks make him look good. He can probably guarantee employment for them while he's alive, even with Bethel cutbacks. He can make them look good to their Bethel heavy bosses.
 +13 / -1
Daniel1555
Daniel1555 a day ago

I don't get it.
Why do you talk about desolate places?
Norfolk Island is not a desolate place. It's a beautiful and interesting island and anything but child abuse to live there when there are about 2300 inhabitants.
The same with the rain forest in Equador.
Or is it better to live in a crime infested mega city? Is that child abuse too?
 +9 / -0
TheOldHippie
TheOldHippie a day ago
When other people take their children with them to spend a year sailing around the world, live for some years among highland people of the Andes, live in China to broaden their view - it is regarded an excellent thing and lots of other people sigh, thinking/saying "why didn't WE do that"? Why is it a bad thing in Your eyes? We often have planned or thought of setting off and living somewhere else for months/years, but never have gotten as far as really doing it. Wish it were me, wish it were my parents.
 +7 / -0
Daniel1555
Daniel1555 a day ago

Tony talks about Satans diabolical attacks to destroy families.
Who is destroying families?
Doesn't the last Watchtower Study article about shunning family members diabolically destroy families if it is applied?
 +12 / -0
WTWizard
WTWizard 20 hours ago

I wasted the electricity to watch that video, and it was terrible. Most of it was so forgettable that I would view it a total waste. So joke-hova cares about the blind--that is, enslaving them. Big deal. That thing wants us all enslaved.
And yes, that thing hogs massive amounts of computer resources. Even worse than regular YouTube.

 +2 / -0
SafeAtHome
SafeAtHome 19 hours ago
I think I can understand what dreamerdude means. A member of my extended family recently went to Ecuador with two young children to do whatever something free for the borg. This wasnt a comfortable vacation on a sailboat with sunshine and fishing all day. This was in a very poor area. These kids are isolated, home schooled, and exposed to illness and disease they wouldn't be at home. They were out of touch during the recent earthquake. I guess the "great" learning experience would be there's no place like home?
 +6 / -0
dubstepped
dubstepped 18 hours ago
I get what Dreamer is saying too. People rip their kids away from friends and family in congregations often to move to economically depressed rural areas to help where the need is great. Screw the kids, it's all about the adults. I knew a family that decided to learn Spanish and serve there. The kids had no choice and lost friends to go sit in meetings with people and talks they couldn't understand. That marriage broke up and the kids ended up in therapy. Maybe it isn't reflective of the particular place mentioned in the DubTV video this month, but it's definitely an abusive thing that goes on.
 +7 / -0
Dreamerdude
Dreamerdude 18 hours ago

Dan and Hippie, I definitely see some positive aspects to traveling with children. My family and I love traveling. Traveling to unassigned territory for a week at a time was nice too, enjoying the mountains, or beaches and the local foods and such. I would like to travel to Norfolk Island. The Norfolk Island Pine is one of my favorite trees, with their beautiful symmetry. The Ecuador rainforest seems like a fascinating place. Even camping and fishing at Lake Baikal in Siberia, featured in the May broadcast, would be fun for a week or two. And if I could afford it, extended travel for a few months or maybe a year might be good for the kids.
Safe and Dubstepped picked up on the abusive aspects that I was thinking about. They read my mind.
In the case of the trip to Lake Baikal, I am sure it was fun to enjoy nature and eat those delicious fish. But asking the boy to try to recruit the locals is abusive. There is more productive work they could have done, like perhaps building latrines, or picking up trash.
In the earlier example of the English family that moved to Ecuador, It appeared to me that the parents were uprooting the kids permanently. Maybe they were happy to leave dead end jobs to spend their savings or inheritance, but how will the kids socialize and get needed education?
in the magazine article about Norfolk Island I felt bad for the two little boys, because the only friends they would be allowed to have are the 11 JWs that live on the island. If I read the article right, checking the YB, they are the only two kids. And the parents knew that going it this. But I have the admit it, Swiss Family Robinson catches my imagination.
 +6 / -0
sir82
sir82 17 hours ago

Had a "friend of a friend" pick up and move his family to Panama.
They lived off savings. Neither parent worked over there.
Their days were built entirely around either field serve-us, preparing for meetings, or home-schooling their kids. Nothing else.

They attended an English congregation, where there were no other parents with children.
They refused to learn Spanish. Apparently had no interest in doing so.
So, basically, the kids (both pre-teens) had absolutely 0 social contact with anyone under the age of 30 or so. Week after week, month after month.
Fortunately, the parents, after a couple of years, finally realized the damage they ere doing to their kids and moved back to the USA.
It sounded like a perfectly atrocious lifestyle. Even their "preaching work" was a fiasco - they either wasted their time preaching to US & British ex-pats who had 0 interest, or to locals who quickly realized the "Bible study" was a free way to learn English, and so agreed to a "study" for that reason only.

 +6 / -0

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JWTV May Broadcast is up. hosted by an old burnt hot dog
by Dreamerdude a day ago 11 Replies latest 13 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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steve2
steve2 15 hours ago

Isn't this a good example of how a dream lifestyle for parents may be a nightmare for their children, regardless of religious affiliations?
Unfortunately, that's childhood for you.
What turns Mom and Dad on is a turn-off for the kids and vice versa - although children generally have to "play their cards right" because they are under their parents' supervision. Not a good idea to tell your JW parents that you want to further your education to become a journalist, as I found out a gazillion years ago. I'd have done anything to have travelled beyond my stifling local congregation.
Sounds like an interesting - and survivable! - variation on raising kids.
 
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 13 hours ago
They want to be like Jehovah he took his children the promise land filled with milk and honey. A high desert better known as Judea where much of nothing grows and they had to ranch animals and sell them for other foods to eat. Not much water either.
 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
what's up with jw parents taking their minor children to such desolate places?
like the english family that took their little kids to the jungles of ecuador, and the australians that took their little ones to norfolk island where hardly anyone lives, and they are the only children in a congregation of 11 publishers?
is this a new form of child abuse?



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Pattytheperfect1
First post after a year or two of lurking on this site-Sorry for the length!
by Pattytheperfect1 2 years ago



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"How JWs differ from other Christians:" now on Google News
by Sugar Shane 21 hours ago 6 Replies latest 43 minutes ago   watchtower beliefs
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Sugar Shane
Sugar Shane 21 hours ago

PLEASE post some comments on this news-site! It's not a bad piece of journalism, but there are definitely some gaps that need to be filled.
The pro-JW apologists have already started posting on it! Here's the link: http://www.worldreligionnews.com/religion-news/christianity/the-jehovahs-witnessess-religion-and-how-they-differ-from-other-christians
 
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 21 hours ago

The article seems very unbiased. I'm satisfied with the info.
DY
 
carla
carla 20 hours ago

They believe Jesus Christ is the key to salvation? really? since when?
I remember some quotes from the wt's that state being a jw is the key to having any hope (no guarantee) of salvation.
I have heard of comment made by jw's that snear at the mere thought of Jesus. They might give lip service and say He is their 'king' but in the end they really don't give Him much thought. More reverence is given to the gb and the org at large.

 +2 / -0
carla
carla 20 hours ago

I forgot to add that the article completely left out the shunning, jc's, blood, pedophilia, no voting, no YMCA, etc....
Last Sunday's wt about shunning would be perfect to educate the public about the reality of jw's.

 +3 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 20 hours ago

Carla,
Other 'Christian' faiths, no all of course, do have these same issues you mentioned; so, it's not just a JW thing.
The piece is very neutral. Liked it.
DY
 +0 / -2
FayeDunaway
FayeDunaway 17 hours ago

I just want to hear any of you who are undercover but active JW's say 'Jesus is Lord' in a comment or a talk and see what happens.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

 +2 / -0
Lieu
Lieu 43 minutes ago

Lol Faye,
Even the GB downplay Jesus by calling him their "big brother". Not their Lord, head, savior, husbandry owner, or King ... but "big brother". How's that for minimalization?
You know like I know, anyone acknowledging "Jesus is Lord" out loud in a KH meeting would get labeled "mental". Even if they added, "to the glory of God the Father". Whooooo hoooo, that would be fun times if a JW actually said such!
 

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The Egyptian god Thoth smarter then Jehovah?
by Crazyguy 17 hours ago 2 Replies latest 11 hours ago   watchtower bible
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Crazyguy
Crazyguy 17 hours ago
We can tell by the old testament and other writings that the Jews and Israelites used a lunar calendar. Thier neighbor to the east eventually switched away from a lunar to a solar calendar. Experts don't know exactly when but the Egyptians watching the star Sirius were able to make the change as early as 2700 BC or possibly as late as about 1100 BC. They the Egyptians gave the credit to thier god of knowledge Thoth. Now on the other hand the Israelites which supposedly lived in Egypt for a few hundred year never found out about this calendar and Moses who was supposedly taught all the ways of Egypt also didn't seem to know. What about Jehovah, why would he not tell his people about this more accurate way of keeping time? Maybe he's not as smart as the god Thoth. What about the new testament, during the time of Jesus they still seem to be stuck on the lunar calendar even though the Romans had already switched? Jesus told the writer of revelations he would return very soon five times in the last chapter. Maybe why he hasn't shown is because he and his father have gotten thier calendars mixed up.
 +3 / -0
Phizzy
Phizzy 13 hours ago

Jehoober is a bit of a dummy, he couldn't even tell his guys the value of Pi, the fact that the earth was an Oblate Spheroid, or that genetics do not work the way the writer of the Noah story, and the story of Jacob and his different coloured sheep would have us believe.
The chances of two of every mammal re-populating the Earth ? Big Fat Zero. I can't be arsed to debunk the other examples. But the followers of other gods knew the Earth was a sphere, worked out its circumference, knew the value of PI, and how to breed their livestock.
Yup, Jehoober is a Dummy.
Pick whatever "pagan" god you like, they certainly don't seem to be any thicker than Jehoober.
 
fulano
fulano 11 hours ago
Might be the same thing under different names. Like LANCIA and CHRYSLER  nowadays.
 

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Letter # 1 to the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses
by WITNESS-FOR-WATCHTOWER-REFORM 14 hours ago 24 Replies latest 31 minutes ago   watchtower beliefs
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WITNESS-FOR-WATCHTOWER-REFORM
WITNESS-FOR-WATCHTOWER-REFORM 14 hours ago

Hi Everyone
Here is my first letter I posted to the Governing Body. I also hope that brothers on the writing committee who may be lurking on this site (and have some clout) read my letter and bring in change to this very flawed policy around confession of sins.
Enjoy
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses
25 Columbia Heights
BROOKLYN NY 11201-2483
UNITED STATES
26/4/2016
Dear Brothers,
I wish to write to you to give some constructive feedback about your policies around the confession of sins. I would like to point out the flaws of your current policy when dealing with confessions and the impact this has on the ‘friends’ worldwide. I would firstly like to say that I whole heartedly agree that it is right for individuals to confess their sins to one another as they can be helped spiritually by the shepherds of the congregation – in line with scripture (James 5:16). However, whilst reading through your ‘Shepherd the flock of God’ elder’s hand book, I noticed some issues/flaws I wanted to draw your attention to.
One issue, undoubtedly the case, is that there are many who simply hold back from confessing their sins; or in that they simply cannot bring themselves to go to the elders of their congregation to discuss some sins they may currently be practicing, particularly embarrassing weaknesses. Why? Because of the impact that such a confession might have on an individual as a result of your policy.
There are many examples I could use such as problems with alcohol/drugs, addiction to gambling etc. But let us take for example an individual who is in very good standing within the congregation and also within the community due to the type of work he/she does. For argument sake, let’s say the brother is a lawyer and he has been struggling for a long time with viewing pornography. He has tried many times to give up, even putting locks on his computer etc, but every now and again he may have a relapse. He feels distraught over his weakness and relationship with God. He wants to confess openly to the elders so that he can receive spiritual help. However, he holds back because he thinks ahead to the ‘what if’; that is that his very good reputation could potentially end up in tatters if such information ever got out.
I am using this example due to the ‘fact’ that the viewing of pornography is often mentioned in your publications and talk outlines. But more importantly, under your current policies and guidelines ‘depending on the elder body’ (as they can vary in how things are dealt with), an individual may be reproved privately OR may be reproved publicly - even if they are genuinely repentant. It is the very real possibility that such an individual could be reproved publicly by means of an announcement. There lies the flaw. Knowing that this may possibly happen, prevents many brothers and sisters from approaching the elders to openly confess their sins. So in effect you could have congregations with a high numbers of member’s continually practicing various sins because they are too afraid of the consequences, such as humiliation.
If a person is reproved publicly, everyone would know exactly what he/she had done, because it is usually brought out in the next local needs. People quickly put two and two together. I personally know of one brother this actually happened to about 15 years ago. He apparently was watching pornographic videos. How did we know? Because he was publicly reproved and then 2 weeks later we had the local needs talk about the dangers of watching pornographic material etc. People knew exactly who was engaging in this conduct. It created quite a bit of gossip within our congregation at the time. Yet thinking back on it, how embarrassing and humiliating it was for that young man. That young brother had issues with his mental health by the way (bipolar depression). He had been attending our hall for about 5 years up till that point; two months later he disappeared never to return to another meeting. That example highlights very clearly why your policy in dealing with confession is wrong; a misinterpretation of Scripture.
In chapter 7 of the ‘Shepherd the flock of God’ book under the sub heading ‘if the decision is to reprove’. It says….




18. If the elders on the judicial committee determine
that the wrongdoer is genuinely repentant,
they should inform him of the decision, the judicial
restrictions, and whether the reproof will be announced………
…………….. In this way the accused is reproved "before all onlookers." (1 Tim. 5:20)


23. In some cases the elders may feel that it is
necessary to warn the congregation by means of
a Scriptural talk about the type of conduct practiced.
A member of the judicial committee should generally
give the talk. He should explain the wrongness of
the conduct and how to avoid it but without saying
anything that would connect the wrongdoer with
the type of sin under discussion. In the case of an announced
reproof, the elders should wait a few weeks
before giving such a talk; when the reproof is unannounced,
there is no need to wait.


The above looks plausibly written until the Scriptures are correctly read in context.
If you read the portion of Scripture at 1 Tim 5:19-21 in context…it clearly refers to someone who has been accused of wrongdoing in the sense they have been caught out and are in denial! However, the accusation can’t be admitted by the elders unless evidence of the wrongdoing is provided by two or three witnesses. Does that sound like someone wishing to humbly confess their sin and ask for spiritual help from the elders? It doesn’t read that way to me and many others.
Please could you read and meditate on what the Scripture is actually saying brothers…
1 Tim 5:19: Do not admit an accusation against an older man, except only on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 20 Reprove before all onlookers persons who practice sin, that the rest also may have fear. 21 I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus and the chosen angels to keep these things without prejudgment, doing nothing according to a biased leaning.


Obviously the above Scripture can be applied in many cases of wrong doing. For the more serious crimes such as child molestation, rape and murder etc, allegations/confessions should be reported to the authorities re safeguarding as I am sure you are now well aware!


So for example, a brother is committing adultery, and is accused by his wife of doing so. It can’t be proved, yet there is an accusation. The brother denies the accusation; but then two or three witnesses provide evidence that the man is truly committing adultery. Action can now be taken by the elders to warn the congregation.
Another scenario, a brother is accused of being a thief. Let’s say he is accused by another brother of stealing his wallet. The accused denies the accusation. Two or three more witnesses come forward and provide actual evidence/proof that the brother has been engaged in theft. Again, the congregation has to be warned against such a wilful practice of sin so that the rest may have fear.


In both cases above, the person was A/ denying the accusation, B/ continuing to blatantly practice such sin.


Now on the flip side, if you followed the scripture correctly in James 5:13-16, then individuals would be far more open about confessing their sins, knowing it would be kept confidential and that they would be provided with spiritual help to enable them to overcome their weaknesses. Their privacy, dignity and self worth would be kept in check.
James 5:13-16- Is there anyone suffering evil among YOU? Let him carry on prayer. Is there anyone in good spirits? Let him sing psalms. 14 Is there anyone sick among YOU? Let him call the older men of the congregation to [him], and let them pray over him, greasing [him] with oil in the name of Jehovah. 15 And the prayer of faith will make the indisposed one well, and Jehovah will raise him up. Also, if he has committed sins, it will be forgiven him.
16 Therefore openly confess YOUR sins to one another and pray for one another, that YOU may get healed. A righteous man’s supplication, when it is at work, has much force.


Under your current policies within the ‘Shepherd the flock of God’ elders book, thousand and thousands of brothers and sisters are quite frankly afraid to go to the elders knowing it will be a gamble as to whether their reproof will be announced or not! Many bottle things up to the point they can’t face going to the meetings anymore as a result of feeling they are no longer good enough. For such ones, too much water has gone under the bridge.
I hope this letter helps you to understand the impact your policies around confession has over individuals and their spirituality. What a difference it would make for individuals to go to the elders to openly confess their weaknesses freely knowing that their confession would remain private and confidential. They would continue to maintain their dignity and self worth whilst trying to overcome their weakness with help from their shepherds. That’s how it should be!
I really felt the need to highlight this issue and truly hope you take on board this ‘constructive feedback’ and make some amendments in this area. Could I also highlight (judging by what is being said all over the internet, that you’re ‘Shepherd the flock of God’ book AND branch correspondence guidelines are far too Talmudic! I would appeal to you to simply follow the ‘Christian’ guidelines of Gods word and bring about needed reform.
Thank you for reading my letter Brothers
Your brother in Christ
J M.....
Witness for Watchtower Reform
 +8 / -0
dubstepped
dubstepped 14 hours ago
I hate to be discouraging, but nobody will care. If you're doing this to get things off your chest, fire away. If you think the writing committee comes here for ideas, I'm not sure where you get that. If you send it to HQ it will never reach the GB.
 +10 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 14 hours ago


Letter # 1 to the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses
Expect a Visit from your Local JW Elders..
For a..
.
.........////..........................Image result for Watchtower logo
Image result for attitude adjustment
 +12 / -0
stan livedeath
stan livedeath 13 hours ago
I think the first sentence should be OK.
 +2 / -0
steve2
steve2 13 hours ago

Oh that is a terribly long letter which only a concerned or interested party would ever read. I got to paragraph 3 and frankly lost interest - not because the topic lacked interest but because I tried to put myself into the shoes of those who open letters at Bethel.
I have a question or two:
First, do you seriously believe that this letter would ever get even within a stone's throw of the GB? They must get all sorts of people writing about all sorts of topics.
Second, if your intention is to reach people and seek their views (which I take it you really want them to answer the questions you pose), it is definitely not a good idea to make it clear from your second sentence that you think they are wrong. Not a good opening strategy.
Three, watch the length - don't fall into the trap of thinking that people will read letter, long or short. But the likelihood of their reading letters increases when the letter is on the short side. Generally, even interested people find it hard to cope with long letters.
Think like a print media editor: Brief and concise gets read, long-winded gets binned.
 +1 / -0
Stealth
Stealth 13 hours ago

"Watchtower reform" is an oxymoron.
 +2 / -0
sparky1
sparky1 13 hours ago
No UNSOLICITED information or opinions are ever presented to the entire Governing Body(tm)...........EVER. Your letter is naïve at best. Sorry to be so blunt but you are 'pissing up a rope' if you think anyone at Watchtower headquarters would even give this letter a first glance.
 +2 / -0
SafeAtHome
SafeAtHome 12 hours ago

They won't care because you used step by step logical reasoning, something they are not used to. Also they will mark you as an apostate because of your use of the Shepherd the Flock book, which is supposed to be for elders eyes only. They probably get letters like this everday that go directly into the waste bin in the mail room.
 +1 / -0
StephaneLaliberte
StephaneLaliberte 12 hours ago

Two things: 1) replace "your policy" with "our policy". If you are an active elder, than, you should use the "us" approach. 2) You are basically suggesting the "secret of confession" as applied by the Catholics. Problem with that is that some keep confessing all the time to the same sins and nothing happens. On the other end, you have JWs who have almost no tolerance: You did something wrong two or three times? Your OUT! Both are wrong. If I get this right, A JC should be called only when the confessor has no obvious remorse for his actions. While right now, the remorse is to be evaluated by a JC. I believe if you state it clearly and in a shorter text, you might be able to get the idea across even if they choose not to do anything about it.



 +4 / -0
StephaneLaliberte
StephaneLaliberte 12 hours ago
Oh, and if your not an elder, don't ever use the "Shepard the flock book"! SafeAtHome is right, you will be marked as an apostate!
 +2 / -0

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Letter # 1 to the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses
by WITNESS-FOR-WATCHTOWER-REFORM 15 hours ago 25 Replies latest 17 minutes ago   watchtower beliefs
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FayeDunaway
FayeDunaway 12 hours ago
They won't listen to you, because they never listen. But I couldn't agree more with the points you made.
 +2 / -0
Bonsai
Bonsai 12 hours ago

Their policies and interpretation of the scriptures you mentioned in James and 1 Timothy have been thought out and set in stone for decades. There is no misinterpretation in their eyes. Their is no flaw in policy in their minds. Everything is set up in such a way so as to CONTROL the flock. They replace your conscience with theirs. They use gossip and rumors and peer pressure to keep the sheeples in line. A public reproof is exactly what they want you to be petrified of. Why would they remove one of their most effective weapons when it is so successful?
I appreciate you effort and concern, though.

 +3 / -0
poopie
poopie 12 hours ago

A walk of 1000 miles starts with one step keep trying I have written letters to gb make sure you send to all members of gb individualy then send same letter to all helpers individualy then send to to writing depth the send to all members of branch comitee
 +2 / -0
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 12 hours ago

People should be free to "confess" their "sins" to God, their issues to a therapist, and crimes to the police - period!
You'd have more of an effect if you sent a letter stating that to every newspaper in the country.
 +3 / -0
fulano
fulano 12 hours ago
I didn't even read the whole letter, imagine the ones that receive hundreds a day. Nice effort though.
 +2 / -0
wozza
wozza 8 hours ago

In my years as a JW the problem was that a persons private confession to elders was often leaked by the elders themselves .For instance a young brother I studied with went to the elders depressed about his habit of masturbation ,within a short time it was common knowlege who had a problem with what because an elder used his case as an example to others pointing to a certain young brother in the congo with this problem ,as there were few young single bros it did'nt take long for others to work out who the elder was talking about , and so the gossip mill began.
The other major source of revealing private matters were elders wives , it's not surprising people won't come forward to seek help.
 +3 / -0
NVR2L8
NVR2L8 8 hours ago

Anyone who believe they can sway the governing body of the Jehovahs witness by writing a letter can't be taken seriously! Either they have no idea how this cult works or they are not aware of their history. Even the killing of JWs in Malawi didn't get the JW to recognize they had made an error in judgement telling the brothers not to buy the government mandatory ID card...Meanwhile the WT had no problems with the brothers bribing Mexican officials to avoid military service. Your letter will be filed in folder 13...The WT can't be reformed but you can...just leave and live your life.
 +3 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 8 hours ago

Seriously?
You're confusing the GB with someone who gives a sh*t about what you think!
I didn't make it all the way through that epic post, but I made if further than anyone in the Service Dept will when they open the letter.
Image result for file 13
Doc

 +2 / -0
wannaexit
wannaexit 7 hours ago
I've thought of writing letters too, and I wrote some and then put them in a drawer and eventually shredded them. If its part of the healing process for you..go ahead and send it. But I don't think anybody up at bethel will get past the first paragraph.

 
steve2
steve2 5 hours ago

Here is an example of a letter they will read and possibly cite in their publications:
Dear Brothers on the Governing Body,
I am writing to express my gratitude for the loving work you carry out in providing us with meat in due season.
Life in this old system can be so hard with all sorts of worldly temptations. However, my family and I have found time and time again that by turning to your loving counsel based on Jehovah's word, we have become stronger and surer in our faith and commitment to Jehovah.
I cannot begin to fully express how much my heart goes out to each one of you as I realize how much you have dedicated your lives to ensuring we each receive timely direction.
My eyes fill with tears just thinking of all that you mean to me and my family.
Our heartfelt thanks! May we all continue obeying Jehovah's loving counsel provided for us by you - especially now that we are so very deep into the time of the end with the wonderful prospect of living into the wondrous new system of things.
With Christian love,
Steve Adoreuallsomuch.
 +4 / -0

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Topic Summary
here is my first letter i posted to the governing body.
i also hope that brothers on the writing committee who may be lurking on this site (and have some clout) read my letter and bring in change to this very flawed policy around confession of sins.. enjoy.
the governing body of jehovah’s witnesses.



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by cappytan 4 months ago



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Letter # 1 to the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses
by WITNESS-FOR-WATCHTOWER-REFORM 15 hours ago 25 Replies latest 18 minutes ago   watchtower beliefs
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Lieu
Lieu 3 hours ago

Lolz Steve .... Or one could just read the Bible and get the straight dope from Christ himself.



No false predictions or rants about socks and tight pants there.
 +1 / -0
sir82
sir82 3 hours ago

I posted this on your other thread....
I really sympathize with your cause, but you very clearly have no idea how the correspondence dept. in Bethel works.
A low-level lackey will open your letter, and after reading a paragraph or 2 will see it is (A) negative and (B) anonymous and throw it away immediately.
Your letter won't make it within a half-mile of any GB member.

 +1 / -0
joe134cd
joe134cd an hour ago
Do what I done. I was so pissed when I found out about the sex abuse thing. I sent copies of the same letter to both the prosecution and defense lawyers in the sex abuse cases. With the hope that old guy (I think his name was) Jim McNab would of had to seen it. I also sent a copy to both the Australian and U.S bethels. I also let them know that I had sent it by putting their addresses at the top of the letter. I'll tell you what it sure felt good even if it never got past the paper shredder.
 
Truthexplorer
Truthexplorer 44 minutes ago

.
 
Truthexplorer
Truthexplorer 37 minutes ago
Good letter. 
 
zeb
zeb 18 minutes ago
You have set out personally your deepest concerns. If you are very lucky you will get a short reply 'signed' with a rubber stamp.
 

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Topic Summary
here is my first letter i posted to the governing body.
i also hope that brothers on the writing committee who may be lurking on this site (and have some clout) read my letter and bring in change to this very flawed policy around confession of sins.. enjoy.
the governing body of jehovah’s witnesses.



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by Terry a month ago
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by AndersonsInfo 4 months ago
cappytan
Governing Body Letter details things that "have never been done before." - Really?
by cappytan 4 months ago



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Germany start a comission against child-abuse
by crazy_flickering_light 15 hours ago 6 Replies latest 4 hours ago   watchtower child-abuse
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crazy_flickering_light
crazy_flickering_light 15 hours ago

If you live in germany, please share your story. If not, please spread this link: https://www.aufarbeitungskommission.de/
I'm so sorry, this is my first topic. Not a happy one, not a personal one, only a sad topic about an evil thing. But I think I have to. Thanks to all people here, they done so much to raise awareness in Australia, UK and USA. Kudus to you all.

 +14 / -0
Giordano
Giordano 13 hours ago
Excellent! Thank you for sharing this CFL!
 
JHK
JHK 13 hours ago

Good news!
Bad news to Governing Body Bank...
 
Dagney
Dagney 11 hours ago

Fantastic!! Thank you for posting!
 
Mephis
Mephis 11 hours ago
Shared elsewhere. Thanks CFL.
 
LevelThePlayingField
LevelThePlayingField 8 hours ago
Is this like the Royal Commission that happened in Australia?
 
crazy_flickering_light
crazy_flickering_light 4 hours ago
Is it like the RC? I would say no and yes. Same topic, yes. But I think there will be no public hearing and we don't know, how much victims brave enough to go thru hell again. Australia have a "critical mass" going to court before the hearing starts, when I see it the right way. In germany I don't know about a big group like this. Nobody here know about the ARC. We spread it, but we have to be careful. I don't think it affect the tax-status, but a lot of brothers look for a good reason to step down with a bang. It could also raise the awareness of shunning. We got the big bethell here, so it's a fight at an importend place.
 

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God’s Kingdom Rules! to Be Considered at Congregation Bible Study
by wifibandit 11 hours ago 4 Replies latest 4 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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wifibandit
wifibandit 11 hours ago

April 26, 2016 TO ALL CONGREGATIONS Re: God’s Kingdom Rules! to Be Considered at Congregation Bible Study
 +1 / -0
Darkknight757
Darkknight757 10 hours ago
Never bothered to read that turd. Isn't the book basically a fabrication of truth?
 
Quarterback
Quarterback 10 hours ago
Thanks, Wifi
 
JW_Rogue
JW_Rogue 6 hours ago
It's like a cliff notes version of the old Proclaimers book with the idea that the org is "fulfilling prophecy" taken from the Revelation book. Many details are glossed over just in the introductory letter and the first chapter. Haven't read past that.
 
alcyone
alcyone 4 hours ago
I really like this WTS newspeak term "Bible study". They will study poor WT history book and will say "We study the Bible"

 

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April 26 2016 God’s Kingdom Rules! to Be Considered at Congregation Bible Study
by wifibandit 10 hours ago 8 Replies latest 3 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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wifibandit
wifibandit 10 hours ago

April 26, 2016 TO ALL CONGREGATIONS Re: God’s Kingdom Rules! to Be Considered at Congregation Bible Study
 +1 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 10 hours ago
Why in the world would they be highlighting that its been MORE than 100 years since the Generation that would see the Big A!
 
eyeuse2badub
eyeuse2badub 6 hours ago

Yipee! Can't wait. And the beat goes on!
just saying!
eyeuse2badub
 
Late Bloomer
Late Bloomer 6 hours ago
"Considered" sounds like they haven't made a final decision yet. Can't these people ever say anything plainly?
 +1 / -0
freddo
freddo 4 hours ago
Am I the only one in my KH to note that "God's Kingdom Rules!" can be read two ways?
 +1 / -0
Heartsafire
Heartsafire 4 hours ago
Shouldn't it be gods kingdom reigns instead of rules? This must be another rule book to be tossed out with old info in a year or two.
 +1 / -0
Lieu
Lieu 4 hours ago
Really? Then why does it still suck on Earth?
 +1 / -0
sir82
sir82 3 hours ago

"God's Kingdom Rules" is a heavily censored, sanitized, and condensed version of the "Proclaimers" book, which was also a heavily censored and sanitized (albeit not condensed) version of JW history.
Sheesh. It's like "Bud Light" isn't "light" enough, so they came out with "Bud Light....Light".

 
Damascus
Damascus 3 hours ago
I'm a little behind with development but I notice the address says it comes from Walkhill. . Is printing coming from there now?have they moved already?
 

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wifibandit
8
April 26 2016 God’s Kingdom Rules! to Be Considered at Congregation Bible Study
by wifibandit in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 10 hours ago
april 26, 2016 to all congregations re: god’s kingdom rules!

to be considered at congregation bible study.

Lieu
sir82
Damascus
3 hours ago
wifibandit
4
God’s Kingdom Rules! to Be Considered at Congregation Bible Study
by wifibandit in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 11 hours ago
april 26, 2016 to all congregations re: god’s kingdom rules!

to be considered at congregation bible study .

Quarterback
JW_Rogue
alcyone
4 hours ago
crazy_flickering_light
6
Germany start a comission against child-abuse
by crazy_flickering_light in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Child Abuse Issues
 15 hours ago
if you live in germany, please share your story.

if not, please spread this link.

i'm so sorry, this is my first topic.

Mephis
LevelThePlayingField
crazy_flickering_light
4 hours ago
WITNESS-FOR-WATCHTOWER-REFORM
24
Letter # 1 to the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses
by WITNESS-FOR-WATCHTOWER-REFORM in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 15 hours ago
here is my first letter i posted to the governing body.

i also hope that brothers on the writing committee who may be lurking on this site (and have some clout) read my letter and bring in change to this very flawed policy around confession of sins.. enjoy.

the governing body of jehovah’s witnesses.

joe134cd
Truthexplorer
Truthexplorer
an hour ago
Crazyguy
2
The Egyptian god Thoth smarter then Jehovah?
by Crazyguy in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 17 hours ago
we can tell by the old testament and other writings that the jews and israelites used a lunar calendar.

thier neighbor to the east eventually switched away from a lunar to a solar calendar.

experts don't know exactly when but the egyptians watching the star sirius were able to make the change as early as 2700 bc or possibly as late as about 1100 bc.

Phizzy
fulano
12 hours ago
Lostandfound
1
Reference point
by Lostandfound in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 19 hours ago
for decades i had a library of bound volumes to refer to.

is present method of publishing reference proof?

not easy to check some point by use of index, although video material has no half life is it easier for wt to change tracks?

OneEyedJoe
19 hours ago
Sugar Shane
6
"How JWs differ from other Christians:" now on Google News
by Sugar Shane in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 a day ago
please post some comments on this news-site!

it's not a bad piece of journalism, but there are definitely some gaps that need to be filled.

the pro-jw apologists have already started posting on it!

Doubtfully Yours
FayeDunaway
Lieu
an hour ago
Dreamerdude
11
JWTV May Broadcast is up. hosted by an old burnt hot dog
by Dreamerdude in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 a day ago
what's up with jw parents taking their minor children to such desolate places?

like the english family that took their little kids to the jungles of ecuador, and the australians that took their little ones to norfolk island where hardly anyone lives, and they are the only children in a congregation of 11 publishers?

is this a new form of child abuse?

sir82
steve2
Crazyguy
14 hours ago
Doug Mason
14
Why did Jehovah want to kill Moses?
by Doug Mason in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 a day ago
on the way, at a place where they spent the night, the lord met him and tried to kill him.

but zipporah took a flint and cut off her son's foreskin, and touched moses' feet with it, and said, "truly you are a bridegroom of blood to me!

it was then she said, "a bridegroom of blood by circumcision.

Room 215
St George of England
Doug Mason
2 hours ago
GrreatTeacher
18
Share your home remedies for congestion and earache...please?
by GrreatTeacher in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Blood, Medical Treatment & Depression
 a day ago
the extraordinarily high pollen count has finally done me in.

i started with head congestion and coughing on friday and have steadily felt worse.

i now have an earache and a heavy feeling in my chest.. yes, i do have a doctor's appointment for tomorrow, as i'm sure the advice would be!

GrreatTeacher
GrreatTeacher
kaik
4 hours ago
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