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New ANTI-GAY video for Kids on jw.org
by ttdtt a day ago 161 Replies latest an hour ago   jw experiences
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ttdtt
ttdtt a day ago

Lesson 22: One Man, One Woman
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/one-man-one-woman-marriage/
Disgusting!

 
FayeDunaway
FayeDunaway a day ago
Sorry i dont watch witness videos because they make me physically ill, but this doesnt surprise me. Jehovahs witnesses: preaching intolerance from infancy.
 +5 / -0
freemindfade
freemindfade a day ago
That was awful, I hope this one bites them in the ass like the Noah one! Sick!
 +5 / -0
ToesUp
ToesUp a day ago
It will bite them!
 
JustVisting
JustVisting a day ago
Gotta love the trademark WT seal of approval at the end of these productions.
 +1 / -0
BlackWolf
BlackWolf a day ago

Man! My dads probably gonna make us watch this crap at our next family worship, and then my moms going to go on and on about how disgusting gay people are like usual. Little do they know I'm actually bisexual :frowning: This video makes me sad.
Edit: my mom just watched it and she thought it was risque!
 +7 / -0
Village Idiot
Village Idiot a day ago







 +10 / -0
steve2
steve2 a day ago
Given the sheer number of gay and lesbian individuals "produced" in JW marriages, this is indeed rich in irony. The equivalent of being made to reject the very individuals they have brought into the world.
 +8 / -0
dbq407
dbq407 a day ago

Could be bad PR for them if the right person sees it.
I like how paradise is gonna have a security check point like at the airport now. Good job WT.
 +10 / -0
dubstepped
dubstepped a day ago

Mom: "What can you tell Carrie at school?"
Sophia: "Well, I can tell Carrie about paradise and about how her mommies are going to die right on the cusp of it in a fiery Armageddon. Afterward Carrie and I can help bury their bodies once the birds pick them clean and we can live forever happy, because you know, Carrie won't even miss her mommies."
That's how it should have ended. Disgusting.
 +31 / -0

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New ANTI-GAY video for Kids on jw.org
by ttdtt a day ago 161 Replies latest an hour ago   jw experiences
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ToesUp
ToesUp a day ago
dubstepped said it all. That is HOW it should have been portrayed. The reality!
 +4 / -0
Gefangene
Gefangene a day ago
Dubstepped pls excuse the "dislike" on your posting. I wanted to hit "like" and I accidentally hit dislike by mistake. Great thoughts!
 +3 / -0
scotsman
scotsman a day ago
Is it saying gay people are like bombs? Or maybe we're just like a large can of shaving gel?
 +1 / -0
Pete Zahut
Pete Zahut a day ago


That was awful, I hope this one bites them in the ass like the Noah one! Sick!
What happened in regard to the Noah Video? I hadn't heard anything about that.



I think JW's would probably call this a "Pro Hetro Marriage video" rather than an "Anti-Gay Marriage Video".
I can't help but notice how the messages in these videos are way too obvious "on the nose".  Everything they support is portrayed in a hyper-idealistic way. The homes are as neat as a pin and nicely decorated, the Dad's are always handsome and strapping and the moms are always pretty and feminine and the kids are cute, chipper and easy to reason with.
Did you notice that in the idealistic "paradise scene", the boys jumping into the water were wearing shirts? Wouldn't want to anyone to get the wrong idea by showing boys swimming immodestly without their shirts on. Even the most subtle detail is covered by their calculated message.

 +8 / -0
fulltimestudent
fulltimestudent a day ago

steve2: Given the sheer number of gay and lesbian individuals "produced" in JW marriages, this is indeed rich in irony.
And, we should not forget that the witnesses say that same sex attracted people can 'change.' But the evidence is that they do not change, they merely live a life of deceit, attempting to be 'straight.' Ask the wives (or, former wives) of so many people who tried to 'change' in the watchtower way. These sad guys do not experience heterosexual sexual attraction. They are the victims of christian fraud (the JWs are not the only christian group who make this claim).
The second false claim in the above video, is that God created humans, "male and female." Simplistic thinkers like the witnesses think that having a penis or vagina, makes you male of female. But the reality is that sex and gender (two different things) is much more complex than that.
All humans born of women (and that includes the historical Jesus) started life in a form that can be described as gender neutral, or even female. Take a look at the following 2 videos to glimpse reality and not the fake social construction foisted on the poor bloody kids in the above JW video.



And, as for women (and the so-called womanly virtues in the fake 'christian' social construction) they too are very different to the image of women in the above video, as the following video will demonstrate.



The reality of human life, contrasted with the fake social construction taught by the witnesses, tells us something else. It tells us why the witnesses discourage tertiary (university) education. Never let the facts spoil a fictional story.
One last thing: There were many males in ancient Israel who were prepared to have sex with other men. Open your bibles children and turn to 1 Kings 14:24:
And there were also sodomites in the land. (KJV):
An interesting story, because a more accurate translation is that they were male temple prostitutes. So now we have a mental picture of many small temples across Israel, and inside you could find a man prepared to have sex with another man. Now prostitutes have customers, so we may imagine a number of visitors each day to each of these temples and inside an (unknown) number of 'male temple prostitutes' all offering an exalted spiritual experience through their sexual skills. Not quite what the WTS teaches about ancient Israel.
Viewed from that perspective, the description of David at 1 Samuel 18:1 take on a special poignancy:
1Now it came about when he had finished speaking to Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as himself.
Now jump across to 2 samuel 1: 26:
How I weep for you, my brother Jonathan! Oh, how much I loved you! And your love for me was deep, deeper than the love of women! (NLT)
or this version:
English Standard Version : I am distressed for you, my brother Jonathan; very pleasant have you been to me; your love to me was extraordinary, surpassing the love of women.
Faced with this information, how can anyone argue that the relationship between the younger David and the older Jonathon, did not have a sexual connection?



It may distress some whose minds refuse to accept the evidence to think of David ( a type of Jesus) kissing Jonathon, but however much conservative Christians may try to argue it away, the evidence stares us in the face, since in the ancient world the older usually penetrated the younger, we must imagine Jonathon penetrating David (likely not just once, but a number of times), and providing such a memorable experience that David never forgot how wonderful his love affair with Jonathon was.
Now lets skip through the centuries to the time of King James himself,


King James I

as I'm sure everyone knows, James set up a committee and personally presided at many of its meetings to produce a new translation o the Bible, a translation that had a marked affect on the English language, and is particularly liked by many modern Christians.
I find it also poignant that James (even though married with children) preferred to have sex with men. In a different world arrangement his Royal partner would have been a male.
Here's a quote from a web-site on the British Royal family:
He also sought solace with extravagant and unsavoury male favourites ( http://www.britroyals.com/kings.asp?id=james1 )
I'm not sure about the judgemental statements evident in the word unsavoury. The English nobility could likely be said to have been 'unsavoury.'



 +6 / -0
Captain Schmideo2
Captain Schmideo2 a day ago

"And after you tell her about the Paradise, be sure to tell her that if her mommies don't change, they'll die at Armageddon! Share the fear!"
 +7 / -0
Heaven
Heaven a day ago

Is this JW video available on YouTube? I don't like going to jw dot Borg.
And remember, Paul, Christianity's foundational figure, circumcised his adult male friend Timothy. We all know the ancient Jewish circumcision technique, right...right?

 +1 / -0
respectful_observer
respectful_observer a day ago

@1:55 "...people can change!" I'm sure LGBT would all agree with that statement.
And what would she tell her classmate? The paradise, the animals (everyone gets a pet panda), and the resurrection. Hmmmm....nothing about God killing her moms first? I wonder why not?
 +1 / -0
wifibandit
wifibandit a day ago



 
Wasanelder Once
Wasanelder Once a day ago
Carrie will obviously drop her moms like carry on luggage. So clear and clever. In this case carry on would become carrion. Ba Dum Tish!

 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/one-man-one-woman-marriage/.
disgusting!.



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New ANTI-GAY video for Kids on jw.org
by ttdtt a day ago 161 Replies latest an hour ago   jw experiences
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Heaven
Heaven a day ago

Thanks wifibandit.
Jehovah wants everyone to be in paradise?
Uh, no he doesn't. He doesn't want the Catholics, the Jews, the homosexuals, the transgenders, the bisexuals, the transvestites, the hemophiliacs, the apostates, people with turrets syndrome ... you know, anyone who isn't a healthy, young, able-bodied, able-minded heterosexual Jehovah's Witness.

 +18 / -0
jwjono
jwjono a day ago
I find this rather sad. Homosexuals don't hurt anyone. They are just two people who love each other. They didn't show what happens if the man does take the bag through the check portal. Will he get zapped by lightening? Or will the angels come and take him away?
 +2 / -0
breakfast of champions
breakfast of champions a day ago

Why are they even going here? Gay marriage and parenting is EXTREMELY rare. It is likely your school-age child will NEVER meet a classmate with two moms or dads.
So why do they produce this shit? Why is this issue so fucking important they have to make a cartoon?
Because they don't have an original thought of their own and are following right along with all of the religious Right propaganda bullshit.

What a bunch of assholes.
 +7 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 a day ago

Wow!
Perhaps this could be forwarded to some relevant anti discrimination organisations?
Is this to combat the influence of shows like "modern family"?
 +8 / -0
Jehalapeno
Jehalapeno a day ago
This video makes Jehalapeño sad.
 +9 / -0
just fine
just fine a day ago

This kind of crap is just them trying to judge others as less worthy of God. I have met some really wonderful people who happen to be gay. I was just visiting with a lesbian couple I know tonight and one of them has Mormon family that are giving her a really hard time right now. Why can't they just love other people the way they are. It's so sad.
 +8 / -0
kairos
kairos a day ago

What they don't show is the practice session to follow:
Tactics to fool the young school girl into having a secret bible study, joining the cult so she can shun the two women that raised her.
Real nice...
 +13 / -0
konceptual99
konceptual99 a day ago

The great thing about this video is that it shows that anyone who is doing anything that the Bible condemns can't get through the big A. It is a clear example of the reality of Armageddon as requiring the destruction of billions and the truth about what Witness doctrine really teaches despite the protestations that it's all up to God to judge and won't kill anyone deserving of life.
So the next time a Witness throws that wishy washy line at you just use their own kids video against them and ask them what it's really saying about who can get on the narrow road to life found by few as compared to the broad and spacious road full of billions of people trudging off to destruction
 
Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Billy the Ex-Bethelite a day ago

It would seem from this video that the only reason JWs get married is because it makes Hojovah happy. Mom made no statements about how much she enjoyed being married to her husband and how wonderful the "one man and one woman" marriage and "biblical" family arrangement was.
Nope. No personal testimony from Sophia's mom about the wonderfulness of heterosexuality. Rather, she made it sound like homosexuality was something that everyone had to give up in order to please god. You know, like birthday parties and Christmas presents and Halloween costumes and Easter candy and after-school sports and music and a university education and a hundred other fun and potentially beneficial activities.
So, it's not that people really want to be straight. It's just that they have to give up being gay or being "two moms" in order to please Hojovah.
I suspect that the parents of Caleb and Sophia may have a sham marriage.

 +15 / -0
kairos
kairos a day ago
I still can't get over the fact they promote a web site and watch cartoons in the KH...
 +10 / -0

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Topic Summary
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/one-man-one-woman-marriage/.
disgusting!.



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New ANTI-GAY video for Kids on jw.org
by ttdtt a day ago 161 Replies latest an hour ago   jw experiences
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wizzstick
wizzstick a day ago

This way well go viral.
I truly hope so.

 +5 / -0
atomant
atomant a day ago
Just imagine being married to the same partner for eternity. Just imagine.

 +2 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 a day ago

I wonder if witnesses will use THIS video out in service?
Hmmm....guess not!
Its a typical "in house" video!
 +4 / -0
poopsiecakes
poopsiecakes a day ago

I saw this video today. Made me feel horrible that I actually thought this way in my life. :frowning:
 +6 / -0
punkofnice
punkofnice a day ago
This video needs getting out there and exposing. The media needs to see this. Gay rights organisations need to see this too.............not sure who or how, but..hey...
 +5 / -0
sir82
sir82 a day ago

"people can change"
Lovely.
As if it were as simple as dropping a suitcase, or changing from purple socks to black ones.

The WTS has just reinforced their policy of driving gay JW kids (and adults, for that matter) to suicide because they can't just "change". And if they can't "change", well then they aren't "Jehovah's friend".
"Better to off myself on my own terms than wait for Jehovah to do it with a flaming hailstone at Armageddon."

WTS, you have blood on your hands....yet again.

 +6 / -0
Defianttruth
Defianttruth a day ago

Poor Children. Both of the children in the video have it tough. The girl with the two mom's has to live with being the "not normal" child, and the other child has to deal with being raised a Jehovah's Witness. Essentially, WTBS is encouraging a little girl to go to school and disrespect the beliefs of others constitutionally given rights. Can you imagine the damage that could be done to this sweet child with two momma's. Hey your mommas are going to roast like bbq on armageddon.
 +1 / -0
jookbeard
jookbeard a day ago
pretty sick vile stuff even by their standards ,force-feeding hate and homophobia to very young children. Their simplistic dumb answers to this issue leave me speechless, their stupidity seems to grow even deeper. I really do struggle to watch this utter evil persona of Caleb and Sophia's mother, this is the second vid I've watched after the Sparlock Wizard one, she comes across as deeply mentally disturbed , borderline or on the way to a full psychopath, with a narcissistic streak, probably asexual, and a victim of abuse herself, a dictator, even possibly bipolar,someone who would be classed as "wearing the trousers" in the household but strangely diametrically opposed to the meek,submissive,quiet archetypical jw housewife, a truly vile character.
 +2 / -0
steve2
steve2 a day ago

Even from a heterosexual perspective,Biblical marriage is depicted as between a man and a women, with citations from Genesis. Really? So thousands of men having more than one wife are wiped from the record in order to portray the idyllic one mother and one father and children.
Given the topic, I think the video played it very safe: Not one pejorative comment was made about "the two moms" beyond "people have their own ideas". It will be hard to classify any of it as hate speech.
 +2 / -0
sir82
sir82 a day ago


I think the video played it very safe: Not one pejorative comment was made about "the two moms" beyond "people have their own ideas". It will be hard to classify any of it as hate speech.
WTS lawyers were undoubtedly ALL OVER this, reviewing every syllable with excruciating detail.
The WTS is reprehensibly homophobic, but they retain their cleverness quotient.

 +3 / -0

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https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/one-man-one-woman-marriage/.
disgusting!.



Related Topics
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by AndersonsInfo 3 months ago
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by Terry 3 months ago
glenster
Mvie night
by glenster 5 months ago
AndersonsInfo
For your convenience, Trey Bundy sent a list of 16 links to all of CIR's coverage of JWs so far, including radio & TV
by AndersonsInfo 2 months ago



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New ANTI-GAY video for Kids on jw.org
by ttdtt a day ago 161 Replies latest an hour ago   jw experiences
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tiki
tiki a day ago
Well....I got as far as eve popping the flower behind her ear.....corny, lame....pathetic....and a total lack of anything meaningful....sick stuff to be brainwashing innocent kids with....they'll blindly accept it because its all they know or are subjected to....dystopia.
 +2 / -0
Darkknight757
Darkknight757 a day ago
Hopefully some of the smarter parents will preview this video before showing it to their kids. Teaching them to hate others at such an early ago is beyond disgusting.
 +4 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 21 hours ago

I guess when guys in ancient israel had Harems (i.e. David - Soloman..) the few hundred wives and concubines never ever had sex with each other?  They just took a turn every few years or so with their king.
And I'm sure the godly man David was never banging 2, 3, 4 or more of his wives and sex slaves (concubines) at the same time.
And I'm sure that never happened in the majority of polygamous marriages, especially since they all lived in big homes with separate rooms the other wives could go to when it wasn't their turn.
And didnt one of the old story books talk about the Male Temple prostitutes? I don't think they were there for the pleasure of women:smile:
 +6 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 21 hours ago

Good point ttdtt!
so many of the "examples" in the bible DID NOT live a "moral" life! They would be disfellowshipped nowadays.
And yet, they are held us as models to imitate.....
 +2 / -0
bohm
bohm 20 hours ago

I have long been trying to form an opinion on The Gay marrying. After seeing this totally-for-humans-with-a-brain video I finally realize gay marriage is like bringing a can of soda into the airport.
The Gays are literally trying to bring a too large bottle of shampoo into paradise. I for one appreciate Jehovah magnificent body scanner and strong hands and fingers that will grope and prod me to ensure I do not blow up the new system with any Gay.
Thank you, Jehovah, and the seven fuckwits. I hope future videos will explain to me how I brush my teeth.

 +5 / -0
punkofnice
punkofnice 20 hours ago

For what it's worth, I sent the link, via email to Stonewall and the Gay Times. Let's see if anything comes back.



Anyone else reported this anywhere?
Is it worth it?
 +8 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 20 hours ago

Well.....
It is a JW belief and, in this case, it's put in simple terms for a child to understand.
At the beginning of the video the mother mentioned that people have different ideas on what's right and wrong, then proceeded to explain very tactfully the JW belief.
JWs don't hate on others, but definitely the homosexual lifestyle is not at this time part of the culture; and the same way perhaps gun nuts or a radical right wingers or a racists indoctrinate their offspring, JWs do the very same on their ways.
Actually, for JW children, this needs to be emphasized more and more these days where the homosexual lifestyle has become the norm in so many places, so much so that the Law of the land is ruling in favor.
I feel so sorry for people whom I'm sure are born this way, but it's a JW belief and they must teach it to their young.
It is what it is.
DY
 +0 / -9
Darkknight757
Darkknight757 20 hours ago
I get what your saying DY but now instead of JW kids showing their classmates that Santa also spells Satan, they will show their classmates that it's wrong to have 2 moms or 2 dads. As if those poor kids don't have it bad enough...
 
StephaneLaliberte
StephaneLaliberte 20 hours ago

Raised as a JW, I was homophobic myself. Until I became friends with one in High School. I realized that he was just like everyone else, except that he liked boys; and to my surprise, I wasn't his type! Then one of my cousin came out of the closet. I had no issues with that either. Then she got married and adopted kids. Whoa… I felt it was wrong; just plain wrong! That is, until my wife pointed out that she was able to adopt kids simply because heterosexual parents could not, or would not, give the love these kids deserved. The years have since passed and I can tell you that these kids are just like any other kids. The only significant suffering they would encounter would not be from their loving mothers, it would be from kids at school telling them that their mothers are evil individuals deserving of God’s wrath as they are, according to the Apostle Paul, an abomination.
 +6 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 19 hours ago

I know, and trust that these JW kids will only speak up when questioned and not make it a campaign. Tough and sad all at the same time.
Things like this is what's making me understand why more and more JW parents decide to do homeschooling rather than mix up with the non-believers.
There is now JW oriented homeschooling online and it's very well structured, at least here in the States. I checked it out, and was so glad to know that it meets the USA standards for public school education; actually know a couple of kids that are now taking college courses towards a 2-year degree. In this model, the kids do not waste so much time as regular kids in public/private school do when the different holidays roll around, so it's possible to graduate much earlier than a regular high school; also, there's a lot of time wasting with vague subjects that are not needed to meet the Law requirements in public high school, plus, this homeschooling method I checked emphasizes the S.T.E.M. model. parents team up and create an actual classroom while obtaining the info online; sports, laboratory, music, etc., are covered up in association with some local school or library. It's fantastic!!!
I can honestly say that if all our kids would've had this neat tool while growing up, sure we would've used it rather than put them through the grief of not being accepted and being so different from all the non-JW school kids; much grief was endured, and so many absences to avoid the holiday celebrations at school because the JW way is such a different way of life.
It is what it is.
DY
 +0 / -6

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https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/one-man-one-woman-marriage/.
disgusting!.



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New ANTI-GAY video for Kids on jw.org
by ttdtt a day ago 161 Replies latest an hour ago   jw experiences
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StephaneLaliberte
StephaneLaliberte 19 hours ago

Doubtfully Yours: Young kids see things as black and white. They decided to cover just one aspect of their teachings on sexual conduct and focused on homosexuals. A mature JW would understand that homosexuals are just as wrong as any fornicators. This also includes heterosexual parents who are not married. However, looking at this video, how likely is the kid to ask his school mates: “Hey, are your parents married? No? Then, they won’t make it through the metal detector!” It is obvious that this video will generate discrimination based on sexual orientation rather than spiritual beliefs.
 +7 / -0
StephaneLaliberte
StephaneLaliberte 19 hours ago

Doubtfully Yours: Concerning home-school, I could not disagree more. I was raised a JW and attended school. One of the reasons I have a strong character today is precisely due to the fact that I learned to challenge the group’s thinking while standing up for my beliefs. It also allowed me to compare myself against the bests in various areas such as sport, mathematics, history, etc. and to push myself to excellence.
I have personally seen others be home-school and noticed that they were either behind expected results socially, emotionally or academically speaking. If they don’t learn how to deal with the world outside as kids, how will they face the world as adults?
 +8 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 19 hours ago

I believe the video was done tactfully and in good taste.
It's a very tough subject to cover with children in this "everything goes/everything is correct as long as you're not hurting anyone" world we live in.
The video does not incite hate/violence, just exposes how the JW God sees this lifestyle.
DY
 +0 / -8
Lisbet
Lisbet  19 hours ago
I loved how they used Adam and Eve as an example. After all, that marriage worked out so well for humanity.
 +16 / -0
Amelia Ashton
Amelia Ashton 19 hours ago

http://www.gaystarnews.com/
The video is here
I have been contacted by The Mirror and so have several other ex jws about this video.
 +8 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 19 hours ago

Yes, SL, I agree that there's a socialization disadvantage for homeschooled children. However, this type of online/real-life classroom style model of homeschooling does meet the education requirements for Public School here in the States.
Socialization, well, that's definitely an issue.
DY
 +0 / -1
StephaneLaliberte
StephaneLaliberte 19 hours ago
Doubtfully Yours: If they had to cover homosexuality, why didn't they cover single mothers who have kids outside of marriage? Sophia: "My friend only has ONE mother - NO father..." I don't question their right to have their own ideas on morality. What I have a problem with is that they focused an entire video on homosexuals alone.
 +5 / -0
StephaneLaliberte
StephaneLaliberte 19 hours ago

.... does meet the education requirements for Public School
Its not because its legal that I should agree with it :smile: By the way, I was bullied in school for two years. Largely because I was a JW: It was the worst period of my life. However, I lived through it and passed it. In the end, I believe I am much stronger today because of that experience. I can now both sympathise with victims and fearlessly face adversity.
 +1 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 19 hours ago

Called a JW mom that has her kids in this homeschool program and she answered that the kids interacted with non-JW kids when they covered gym/sports, lab, library work with the help with a local public school and library; that these programs are created for homeschooled kids and that it works very well for either religious schools as well.
So, the JW kids do interact with non-JW kids weekly, however, it's done in a 'supervised' manner.
Here's the thing: These devout JW parents want their kids to grow up JW and remain JW throughout their lives. They sincerely believe is the best way for their children to live their lives.
DY
 +0 / -3
Amelia Ashton
Amelia Ashton 19 hours ago


Can it really have had this many shares?
 +6 / -0

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https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/one-man-one-woman-marriage/.
disgusting!.



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New ANTI-GAY video for Kids on jw.org
by ttdtt a day ago 161 Replies latest an hour ago   jw experiences
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Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 19 hours ago

One subject at a time.
The fornication/pregnancy out of wedlock along with other 'JW-God does not approve' subjects are pretty well covered at the KH.
DY
 +0 / -2
StephaneLaliberte
StephaneLaliberte 18 hours ago

Doubtfully Yours: Objectively speaking, you are right in saying that home-school is not a bad thing. Statistically speaking, at least, in Quebec (Canada), they even get slightly better results than the public school system.
My fear in regards to JWs is that some parents want to shield their kids completely from the world until they end up learning about these things on their own. Than, things can get out of hands.

 +2 / -0
StephaneLaliberte
StephaneLaliberte 18 hours ago
Then why not cover the fornication/pregnancy in the video and the gays and lesbians at the hall? Keep in mind here that I have seen plenty of kids not listen to the program at all. Rather, they would listen to videos of sophia and caleb on their tablet.
 
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 18 hours ago

Actually, around here is becoming somewhat frowned upon to send JW kids to regular school; it's being viewed as putting their kids in danger, so somewhat like the parents not doing the 'spiritual' thing for their kids' interest.
So, when kids act up in school I've heard other parents comment that it wouldn't have happened if the child was in the homeschool set up.
So glad all the children in our immediate families are all grown up.
DY
 
StephaneLaliberte
StephaneLaliberte 18 hours ago

Actually, around here is becoming somewhat frowned upon to send JW kids to regular school;
Wow! I haven't seen this around my place... the home-schooled were rather the exception.
 +1 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 18 hours ago

I'm sure they'll sun this video at the KH sometime soon.
Sorry. The JW world is what it is. Rejoice though for it may evolve at some future time the way it has with other doctrines.
DY
 
Amelia Ashton
Amelia Ashton 18 hours ago

Pink News have it too
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/05/03/watch-jehovahs-witnesses-are-using-this-creepy-anti-gay-cartoon-to-indoctrinate-kids/?utm_source=PNT&utm_medium=SocialTwitter&utm_content=TwitterN&utm_campaign=PNTwitter
Ī
 +1 / -0
littlerockguy
littlerockguy 18 hours ago

Here's the thing: These devout JW parents want their kids to grow up JW and remain JW throughout their lives. They sincerely believe is the best way for their children to live their lives.
DY:
If these JW parents are as "devout" as they say, they wouldn't even have children to begin with "deep into the conclusion of the system of things" when "armageddon could come at any time".
LRG
 +1 / -0
Giordano
Giordano 18 hours ago

The video does not incite hate/violence, just exposes how the JW God sees this lifestyle.
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the JW God create the circumstances that lead to the type of gene's that incline a person to be Gay? Is this not a natural event? Did these babies ask to be gay?
What the JW's teach and demand along with other high control nut case religions is that a Gay person can not act on their sexual preference even if they join another person in a legal marriage.
The Mormon's are facing a huge problem because of their policy to not recognize that being Gay is as natural as being straight.
Instead you have this:
While there are conflicting reports regarding numerous suicides involving LGBT Mormon youth, there's no question that there's been an increase of suicidal teens and twenty-somethings following the Church's new anti gay policy.
Instituted in November, the new rules label any Mormon in a same-sex marriage as an "apostate," which could include excommunication from the church, and bars children of all same-sex couples from being baptized. Reaction to the new rules was swift, with thousands severing ties from the Church of Latter-Day Saints in response.
http://www.advocate.com/religion/2016/1/31/suicide-epidemic-ravaging-gay-mormon-youth

 +2 / -0
Cadellin
Cadellin 18 hours ago
I wouldn't describe this as inciting hate; I do agree with the poster that speculated that the WT lawyers vetted it very carefully. BUT it is disturbing in that it promotes the old fallacy that you can pray the gay away. "People can change!" Yikes.
 +2 / -0

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https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/one-man-one-woman-marriage/.
disgusting!.



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New ANTI-GAY video for Kids on jw.org
by ttdtt a day ago 161 Replies latest an hour ago   jw experiences
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someDUDEinAsmallCubicalSomewhereOverTheRAINBOX
someDUDEinAsmallCubicalSomewhereOverTheRAINBOX 18 hours ago

I bet they will play this in the KH soon. I forsee some of the bro's squirming in their seats. I suspect one of being gay, so I will keep an eye on him. Ex-bethelite sort, came home for "undisclosed" reasons...
Also, the ending is horrible...nothing is mentioned about the actual Bible. It's paradise, animals (gag), ect. What a load of crock to be teaching little kids so young and innocent :frowning:
 
LoveUniHateExams
LoveUniHateExams 18 hours ago

New ANTI-GAY video for Kids
It's not that bad.
Figure it this way: when gay/bisexual JWs get older, there are plenty of gay videos/DVDs that they can watch, or look at via the internet.
Interwebs 1, Watchtower nil ...
 
littlerockguy
littlerockguy 18 hours ago

"I wouldn't describe this as inciting hate"
It is inciting self-hate for the gay person watching the video. Anybody who identifies as gay in the organization and views this video just has their self hated reinforced, so it incites hate in that way.
LRG
 +7 / -0
Xanthippe
Xanthippe 18 hours ago

When the mother gives the reasons it has to be one man and one woman, it seems to be all about getting in to the paradise. So you have to be straight because Jehovah says so or he'll kill you. Is that what they've come down to, not even trying to think of a reason? What a tyrant they worship and profess to love.
Poor little girl being expected to tell her school friend that she shouldn't have gay parents, no pressure then. Poor JW kids. It was bad enough being a little girl being made to sit outside school assembly or refuse to make Xmas cards. Now these kids are being encouraged to take part in what could in the UK be interpreted as a hate incident.
 +6 / -0
dubstepped
dubstepped 17 hours ago

Hate doesn't have to be an act of aggression. It doesn't often start out that way. Hate can be looking down on someone else as different.  In fact, once you start labeling people as different and separating them out, they start to become less human and hate can fester later. As I pointed out earlier in what was really being said, that's a hateful message that will be put together bit by bit as those kids grow up.
And from my experience, JW homeschooling is an absolute joke. I watched my sister go through a program that was so simple in high school that I thought it was for grades K-5. How can uneducated people educate their children? Go somewhere like on JWtalk and peruse their forum on the subject. Those idiots can barely string together a coherent sentence and they're now teaching their kids. They use field service and theocratic activities as schooling. It is ridiculous. My own wife never graduated because her parents home schooled her and then discouraged her from spending time on it. The JW view of education is deplorable, and hiding their kids in a box only sets them up for failure.
 +13 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 17 hours ago

"I wouldn't describe this as inciting hate"
So I guess you have to view it as if you are a Same Sex couple. How do you think it would make you feel?
Feel like God just loves the crap out of you? And that JW are so loving?
I don't think so.
 +1 / -0
BeautifulMind
BeautifulMind 17 hours ago
Ugh...they are getting more and more ridiculous with these kids videos. Let ppl live their lives! I knew a few gay/lesbian kids in my home cong when coming up. They really struggled to conform to the jw way and eventually left the jws and good for them. No one should have to change their life for gb/j-god. You don't have to agree with ppls choices, but it would be nice to respect them. I have a lot of gay/lesbian relatives as well and I'm sure they would find this offensive on so many levels. They are so out of touch with reality it's sad. And I didn't even touch on the manipulation of Sophia going on in this video 😡
 +1 / -0
sir82
sir82 17 hours ago

In the south of the USA, JWs practiced official racial segregation in their congregations until the 1970's in some places.

The JWs are ending up on the wrong side of history yet again. They will change only when societal pressure forces them to, again.
Look for brilliant flashes of "new light" coming "very soon now".

 +1 / -0
NeverKnew
NeverKnew 16 hours ago

Here's another piece that I haven't seen talked about yet...
So this pre-pubescent kid goes back to school and advises the other kid (who is grateful to be adopted and loved) that God hates her family. Non-JW kid tells her friends and teacher. The classmates tell their parents and the teacher tells the administrators. Parents who understand and teach tolerance without judgement tell their kids to avoid the crazy JW kid who says everyone but JWs will be dead after Armageddon. JW kid gets thrown under the proverbial bus by peers, teachers and administrators.
JW kid now has no friends or sincere support from the school because of the ruckus caused and so mom and dad point at others and teach the JW kid that they're experiencing classic JW persecution. The behaviors of appalled non-JWs are then inaccurately perceived by the JW child for years afterwards.
This video can only serve to ruin potential friendships for JW kids who are already set apart.
To me, that is the sickest component of all.

 +2 / -0
cofty
cofty 16 hours ago
I watched the video. I didn't see any hate. What did I miss?
 +3 / -3

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disgusting!.



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glenster
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New ANTI-GAY video for Kids on jw.org
by ttdtt a day ago 161 Replies latest an hour ago   jw experiences
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Xanthippe
Xanthippe 16 hours ago
Cofty you missed that gay 'people can change'. They have to leave their gayness behind because God won't let them into paradise because he made normal people straight, one man, one woman. It's implicit because the whole discussion begins with a picture of a gay couple and everything that follows relates to that.
 
cofty
cofty 16 hours ago

I think the WT have acknowledged that being gay isn't entirely a matter of choice have they not?
They demand that a gay person stops having a gay sexual relationship. That is unreasonable and narrow-minded but I don't think it amounts to hatred of gay people.
It doesn't help to overstate our objections.
 +2 / -8
betterdaze
betterdaze 16 hours ago

I didn't see any hate. What did I miss?
The (implied) gay man who can’t get through Jehovah’s security gate is equated with being a terrorist. It’s as if he has a weapon of mass destruction in his carry-on bag.
Later, he reads the Bible, throws down his homosexual terrorist carry-on bag, and leaps through the security gate into Paradise. Beyond the gate two little boys are swimming.
Don’t you see? If gay people would just read the Bible, Witness children would finally be safe.

There’s a another disturbing aspect to this. Caleb has no face.
Sophia is so focused on herself and her model-perfect Witnoid parents that she left out a MALE.
What happens when little girls consider their personal happiness? What happens when we leave out the males?
A female-only world with bad gay mommies, that’s what!
So, little girls, focus on the MALES, obey the men in Jehovah’s Manly arrangement. He knows what's best for us.

What a mess.


 +5 / -0
Xanthippe
Xanthippe 16 hours ago

They demand that a gay person stops having a gay sexual relationship. That is unreasonable and narrow-minded but I don't think it amounts to hatred of gay people.
When the Brahma Kumaris cult wants to prevent married people having sex you think that's despicable, Cofty. Trying to prevent gay people having sex is just unreasonable and narrow minded is it, but not hateful? I am very surprised at this reaction.
 +3 / -0
Jehalapeno
Jehalapeno 16 hours ago
Cofty: it's carefully crafted so that people will go: "welllll, that wasn't really hateful." However, material like this feeds hatemongers. When I was in the org, I would have seen this and said, "hahahha! I bet the stupid f-gs are gonna be pissed now!" Videos like this justify hatred and bigotry.
 +5 / -1
Cadellin
Cadellin 15 hours ago

Little Rock Guy: By that standard, virtually anything that makes me feel bad about myself could be classified as inciting hate. I don't think it helps anyone's case to set the bar that low--and I'm NOT trivializing true hate speech or promoting homophobia by saying that. On the contrary. I do think, however, that we need to move past simplistic definitions of what constitutes hate speech.
ttdtt: How do you know I'm not? Something does not have to be necessarily classified as inciting hate to be disturbing, narrow-minded and simply erroneous, as that new JW video is.
 +1 / -0
sparky1
sparky1 15 hours ago



Now that Sophia has been carefully indoctrinated about Jehovah's views on homosexuality, it is now time for her to learn about Jehovah's views on incest!
 +7 / -0
cofty
cofty 15 hours ago

Don’t you see? If gay people would just read the Bible, Witness children would finally be safe. - betterdaze
I don't see that at all. There is no implied link between homosxuality and child abuse in the video. I have no idea what you mean by the "Caleb has no face" stuff. That just sounds bizarre.
Trying to prevent gay people having sex is just unreasonable and narrow minded is it, but not hateful? - Xant
Yes that is my point. They are intransigent in condemning homosexual conduct but I don't see how the video is hate speech against gay people. I have heard anti-gay hate-speech from the convention platform in the past.
The video is horrible and harmful for lots of reasons but I think it is a mistake to characterise it as hate speech.
When I was in the org, I would have seen this and said, "hahahha! I bet the stupid f-gs are gonna be pissed now!" - Jehal
I wouldn't have. Even as a JW twenty+ years ago I accepted that being gay was not entirely a matter of choice and I never hated gay people.
 +1 / -2
jambon1
jambon1 15 hours ago

Exactly the reason why I banned my children from this cult.
To have them raised with such beliefs would be absolutely against everything I stand for.
Vile cult.
 +5 / -0
steve2
steve2 14 hours ago

feel so sorry for people whom I'm sure are born this way, but it's a JW belief and they must teach it to their young.
It is what it is.
Congratulations Doubtfully Yours. Excellent to see your progress. Your pity is noted - reminds me of earlier decades when homosexuality went from being "bad" (criminalized) to "sad" (medicalized).
Hope one of your goals is to move beyond pity. Perhaps as time passes you will simply see those who have a non-heterosexual sexual orientations as fellow humans who deserve the same rights as all other humans living in your community - no speclal treatment, no need to feel sorry for them - no more than you'd (presumably) feel sorry for say, women, or children or people from different ethnic minorities.
I'm a third generation born-in JW whose grandparents on both sides and parents were JWs (both now deceased). I was surrounded by JWs all my life until my mid-20s, but I've been queer since before school. Naturally it was never the topic of conversation round the dinner table or anywhere else. However, listening to what my mother told me about other family members and relatives, I have no doubt that I was born with a homosexual sexual orientation. That said, I think the research also shows that relatively few humans are at either far end of the sexual orientation continuum and that a sizeable proportion of individuals identify as bi-sexual.
And we haven't even discussed transgendered individuals yet!
I can hardly wait for Mom (and Dad) to have a talk with Sophie and her brother about this complex issue!
 +7 / -0

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disgusting!.



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New ANTI-GAY video for Kids on jw.org
by ttdtt 2 days ago 161 Replies latest an hour ago   jw experiences
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wizzstick
wizzstick 14 hours ago





They demand that a gay person stops having a gay sexual relationship. That is unreasonable and narrow-minded but I don't think it amounts to hatred of gay people.
Really? Let's imagine this is a racial way:


They demand that a black person stop having a sexual relationship. That is unreasonable and narrow-minded but I don't think it amounts to hatred of black people.
Can a person of colour change their skin colour?
No.
So this would amount to hatred not in a direct way, but indirectly, by impacting on their sex life. Which is a basic human need.
Can a gay person change their sexuality?
No.

So again, this amounts to hatred not in a direct way, but indirectly, by impacting on their sex life. Which is a basic human need.



 +4 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 14 hours ago


New ANTI-GAY video for Kids on jw.org
A Thinly Veiled,Bigoted,Fear Mongering,WBT$ "Anti Gay Message"..
In a WBT$ Diseny-ish Childrens Cartoon.
.
....................Jehovah Will Kill..
...Both Your Mommies At Armageddon!..
Image result for Watchtower SophiaImage result for Sad cartoon child
.

............................ABSOLUTELY DESPICABLE..

 +8 / -0
cofty
cofty 13 hours ago

So again, this amounts to hatred not in a direct way, but indirectly, by impacting on their sex life. Which is a basic human need. - wizzstick
The JW position on gay sex is similar to their instructions to unmarried hetrosexuals.
A lot of JWs fail to find a mate in the cult and are condemned to a life of enforced celibacy.
We might as well say that they hate single people.
 +3 / -2
just fine
just fine 13 hours ago

Love people for who they are. It's so much easier to just love everyone.
As for homeschooling - I knew kids who were homeschooled and it was a joke. I had one as a roommate in my early twenties. Didn't know basic geography or other elementary level subjects. She was at such a huge disadvantage.
 +3 / -0
Jehalapeno
Jehalapeno 13 hours ago

Cofty: my point wasn't that you would have been hateful, it's that people, like I was previously, would have.
Again, videos like this aren't hateful on their own, but they feed the hateful and bigoted mentality many JWs already have. Perhaps it's a US thing, but many of my JW peers growing up (including myself, I'm ashamed to say) were very vile towards homosexuals in their everyday talk.
A video like this that comes from their ultimate authority, the governing body, gives them justification to perpetuate that vile hatred and indoctrinate their children with it.
 +3 / -0
gda
gda 13 hours ago

this will piss some people off
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change
 +1 / -0
blondie
blondie 13 hours ago
Very judgmental....and hypocritical. The same people who hide pedophiles in their organization, or make Lot a hero who offered his daughters to be raped, or the Levite and Israelite father who offered his concubine and daughter to be gang raped. or told the Israelite soldiers to kill everything breathing including children.
 +5 / -0
freemindfade
freemindfade 13 hours ago

I think the disgust is not as much about their outdated disapproval of homosexuality. But this delivery was especially vile.
This seems to take it 1 step further, teaching a young child to SHAME her classmate and their parents. I think you are downplaying the ugliness of this too much Cofty.
I have many times heard (first hand) witnesses say the most disrespectful and hateful things about homosexuals in everyday conversation. It is definitely not viewed the same as unmarried heterosexuals. This CARTOON dragging in not just the JW child, but the non-jw child and her loving family. I find that f-cking unacceptable.
 +3 / -0
steve2
steve2 13 hours ago

It's clearly NOT a hateful video. The adjective "hateful" has become an over-used word to describe anyone who dares disagree with you on a sensitive issue.
Yet, at the same time, the video feeds into the notion that certain people are excluded from Jehovah's approval. In that regard, the two mommies are in the very same company as the overwhelming majority of others on planet earth.
Note also that when Sophie's cartoonish mother answered Sophie's big-eyed question about what should she say to the girl with two mommies, her mother simply trotted out the "safe" line about talking to the other girl about the hope of living in the future paradise and playing with the animals.
Clearly, the producers of the video would have been courting trouble if they depicted her mother as suggesting Sophie point out how the other girl's mommies make Jehovah sad.
 +1 / -0
konceptual99
konceptual99 12 hours ago

Hateful or not the video does feed the notion that homosexuality is a greater "sin" than heterosexual relations outside of marriage. I note no video has been produced to suggest how to explain to a child why men and women living together outside of marriage is wrong. No other forms of sexual relationships unacceptable to Witnesses were brought up or used to provide a comparative equality of sin in Jehovah's eyes.
Worse still is giving a young kid the black and white message that gay people can change. Of course this means celibacy rather than some "cure" but that is not even hinted at nor is it even really within the comprehension of such a young child. To them, through this video, "gay" is a choice that an be changed.
I agree in principle with Cofty's argument regarding the risk of over egging the moral outrage however please also let's not accidentally mitigate the pernicious underlying message in this video that gays are not welcome in Jehovah's organisation or in his new world of cuddly lions. It is feeding stereotypes and forming a pattern of thought that will lead to predjuice and even outright hated.






 

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https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/one-man-one-woman-marriage/.
disgusting!.



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New ANTI-GAY video for Kids on jw.org
by ttdtt 2 days ago 161 Replies latest an hour ago   jw experiences
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freemindfade
freemindfade 12 hours ago

I just put myself in the place of the unbelieving child and her parents, here this little girl had the courage to draw a picture with a heart on it about her loving parents who happen to be two women. She was courageous and proud. Its a beautiful thing. Now shes gonna get shit on by little Sophia and made to feel ashamed about what she was once proud of. That pisses me off.
I'll be the last person to get offended by things, but the implication of dragging kids into this really makes me sick. i think it transcends the adult side of the issue we see day to day in the news. Maybe this kid was even picked on by other kids for having two moms, and in walks Sophia to add to it.
JWS don't hide the fact they disapprove of homosexuality. Its another thing making a kids cartoon about shaming another child and it makes me furious as a parent.
 +7 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 12 hours ago
Can't be gay but can have multiple sexual partners and wives.
 +3 / -0
konceptual99
konceptual99 12 hours ago

Or shag your Dad.
Or throw a servant girl to a mob to be raped to death.
 +5 / -0
freemindfade
freemindfade 12 hours ago
If someone went to my daughter and told her that her parents weren't acceptable because they were *insert whatever category you like* I am going to be kicking someones ass for making her even have to think about that. It could be any form of bigotry.
 +2 / -0
sparky1
sparky1 12 hours ago



SOPHIA, WHAT IS THE MOST CONFUSING HOLIDAY FOR LOT, HIS DAUGHTERS AND THEIR OFFSPRING? Answer: Fathers Day!
 +5 / -0
nonjwspouse
nonjwspouse 12 hours ago

dubstepped

And from my experience, JW homeschooling is an absolute joke. I watched my sister go through a program that was so simple in high school that I thought it was for grades K-5. How can uneducated people educate their children?
My husbands cousin's was educated herself, but her two children, she homeschooled (and I use that word VERY loosely). They were given materials and pretty much left on their own to educate themselves. needless to say neither one ( both 30 and 32 have never held down a job good enough to make a living, and both are dependent. The older son is married into a strong JW family after spending most of his 20's on a couch at home watching TV. Now he is dependent on the wife's family, and her small job, but I expect putting in FS hours to get away with it by presenting it as all "spiritual". ( I know how lazy his life has been) The daughter became a need greater in Central America after trying to get engaged and marry ( a disaster and he backed out pronto, before a wedding could be had) . She has tried to go to classes to get certificates, etc. Their Mother ( and father by allowing it) did a number on them by not placing importance on their education through high school. Now, they suffer for it.
The cousin's mother is a JW, but the cousin's father is not. His face turns beet red anytime school and education is brought up around him. He is VERY angry, and has been for his entire grandchildren's lives, at how his daughter depraved them of getting an adequate education.
I must plug correct homeschooling however, Done correctly, it IS superior to the traditional school setting. But that is for another thread.

 +2 / -0
cofty
cofty 12 hours ago

The worse part of the video is that the little girl is being taught how to go back to school and make judgemental comments about her school friend's parents.
The message of the video is the same as it has been for years...
1 - The "world" think that the only thing that matters if two consenting people love each other.
2 - Jehovah doesn't agree. If you want to play with pandas you have to follow the rules.
It isn't hateful it's just dumb. Compared to most American evangelicals it's pretty tame.
 +1 / -1
wizzstick
wizzstick 12 hours ago


A lot of JWs fail to find a mate in the cult and are condemned to a life of enforced celibacy.
That's not a relevant example.
Most heterosexual JW's find a mate.
Zero homosexual JW's can find a mate.

 +2 / -0
cofty
cofty 12 hours ago

That's not a relevant example. Most heterosexual JW's find a mate.
It is relevant, the ones that don't find a mate are expected to remain celibate.
The JW position is no sex outside marriage. It's ridiculous but it isn't hate.



 +1 / -0
wizzstick
wizzstick 12 hours ago


It isn't hateful it's just dumb.
It is hateful.
The message is, if you're gay you can change.
You can't.
It's like me saying, if you want to you can stop being straight. And because of that, if you don't you will have to be celibate until you die.
Hate doesn't need to be about about screaming at people. Foaming at the mouth Westboro style. It can be about placing someone into impossible situation and making them feel it's their fault.

 +3 / -0

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https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/one-man-one-woman-marriage/.
disgusting!.



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New ANTI-GAY video for Kids on jw.org
by ttdtt 2 days ago 161 Replies latest an hour ago   jw experiences
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cofty
cofty 12 hours ago

It's like me saying, if you want to you can stop being straight. And because of that, if you don't you will have to be celibate until you die. - wizzstick
It's more like saying if you are not in a hetrosexual marriage you will have to remain celibate until armageddon which is "just around the corner".
 +1 / -0
wizzstick
wizzstick 12 hours ago


It is relevant, the ones that don't find a mate are expected to remain celibate.
The JW position is no sex outside marriage. It's ridiculous but it isn't hate.
I wonder if gay JW's would agree with such a viewpoint?
I say again:
Most heterosexual JW's find a mate.
Zero homosexual JW's can find a mate.
 
wizzstick
wizzstick 11 hours ago


It's more like saying if you are not in a hetrosexual marriage you will have to remain celibate until armageddon which is "just around the corner".
Crofty - I'm genuinely stunned you're failing to see this.
Gay JW's will presumably change their nature into heterosexual once the big A has been and gone.

Straight JW's will not. They will stay straight.
But in the real world, gay people can't change. That is how they are. The WT is suggesting they can change - if they want to please God.

I suggest you speak to gay ex-JW's, as I have, and understand how utterly miserable this situtaion was for them. It wasn't about being unable to find a mate due to circumstances outside of their control, but being FORBIDDEN to find a mate.
With any heterosexual JW there is always a chance.
With gay JW's there is absolutely no chance.
So to suggest they could change is a hateful stance to take.
Take some time off line to reach out to gay ex-JW's and find out what it was like to be in that situation for decades (in some cases), with no hope of a way out.
Being gay in the JW organisation is VERY different to being straight.

 +1 / -0
cofty
cofty 11 hours ago
It just turned up on the Facebook page "Progressive Secular Humanist" which has 250,000 viewers...
 +1 / -0
cofty
cofty 11 hours ago

Wizzstick - I agree that a born-in JW who has same-sex attraction is in an impossible situation.
Serious question - Since the bible condemns homosexuality, what do you think the Watchtower should do about it?
 
ttdtt
ttdtt 11 hours ago

It is relevant, the ones that don't find a mate are expected to remain celibate.
The JW position is no sex outside marriage. It's ridiculous but it isn't hate.
COFTY the one problem with that - is that a Heterosexual person can at some point find a mate - even if it takes a while - and they can openly pursue that course - a Homosexual person can NEVER find a mate - or even be open about his or her feelings.
BIG BIG DIFFERENCE!
 +2 / -0
cofty
cofty 11 hours ago

The bible condemns homosexuality. If the WT compromised and agreed to approve homosexual relationships we would all be calling them hypocrites.
The problem is with using an Iron Age Book as a moral guide. Almost a hundred million American evangelicals would agree with them about this.
 +2 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 11 hours ago

COFTY
so the bible condones slavery
the bible says you should be killed for touching a pig skin
you should be killed for working on sunday.
....
Lots of things that the WT has acknowledged just don't fit into modern life.
Why not say - hey - the evidence is that Homosexuality is NORMAL - and that about 10% of all mammals exhibit homosexual or bisexual activity - so maybe its not for us to judge.
 +2 / -0
jookbeard
jookbeard 11 hours ago
social media is all over this, the fallout from it is bigger than the "mentally diseased" article, I wonder who the shit for brains authorised this to be released?
 +1 / -0
dubstepped
dubstepped 11 hours ago

Cofty: The worse part of the video is that the little girl is being taught how to go back to school and make judgemental comments about her school friend's parents.
That doesn't sound at least a little hateful to you? A quick definition of hateful would mean "very unpleasant" or "very bad or evil". I think you're reasonable enough to see that it at least ticks those boxes. Maybe it doesn't fit your definition of hatred which I could see one seeing as more intense than what was shown, but it certainly meets some definitions, maybe just not yours.
I looked it up and hate speech is speech that offends, insults, or threatens groups, based on things such as sexual orientation. I'm pretty sure that most gay people would be offended at that video.
I really wouldn't keep arguing that it isn't hateful. It is, even if not as intensely as some might view the word "hate".
 +2 / -0

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https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/one-man-one-woman-marriage/.
disgusting!.



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New ANTI-GAY video for Kids on jw.org
by ttdtt 2 days ago 161 Replies latest an hour ago   jw experiences
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cofty
cofty 11 hours ago

ttdtt - Are you serious?
The OT and the NT judge homosexuality. Paul says homosexuals won't inherit the kingdom. Are you seriously suggesting the WT could get away with permitting gay sex?
10% of all mammals exhibit homosexual or bisexual activity
Only humans and domestic sheep display lifelong homosexual preference even when hetrosexual sex is available.
 +0 / -2
freemindfade
freemindfade 11 hours ago

The message is not as shocking/suprising as the medium. Simple as that. A kids cartoon promoting your fundie ideals. We all know the score on religion and homosexuality. Playing it out in a cartoon they deserve severe scrutiny
Illustrating the taking of a child's natural tendency to accept someone and teaching them how to discriminate instead. They have played out the awfulness of religion in detail.


 +4 / -0
cofty
cofty 11 hours ago

dubstepped - Did you read Steve2's comments?
He self-identifies as a gay man.
"It's clearly NOT a hateful video. The adjective "hateful" has become an over-used word to describe anyone who dares disagree with you on a sensitive issue." - Steve2
I looked it up and hate speech is speech that offends, insults, or threatens groups, based on things such as sexual orientation. I'm pretty sure that most gay people would be offended at that video.
Taking offense doesn't count. It is a cowardly way to shut down conversation.
 +1 / -0
scotsman
scotsman 11 hours ago
When are you coming to Edinburgh for that pint Cofty?
 
freemindfade
freemindfade 11 hours ago

One more time. The message is not as shocking/suprising as the medium
This has gone off course the title of the op is not anti gay video its anti gay video for kids. FOR KIDS
 +1 / -1
wifibandit
wifibandit 11 hours ago




Adam & Steve
Thanks BeerMoneyB!
 +4 / -0
cofty
cofty 11 hours ago

When are you coming to Edinburgh for that pint Cofty? - Scotsman
I was in Edinburgh yesterday. Thought you had gone AWOL from the forum.
 
jookbeard
jookbeard 10 hours ago
Freemindfade, even though the message is aimed to children in our wonderfully tolerant society where great work is done for LGTD and for all members of minority groups young children should not be subjected to such judgemental condoning vitriol, I know radicalised groups from any belief system cant be seen to be condoning a homosexual lifestyle so why didn't they simply steer clear of the subject? It has caused far more damage than they could ever imagine.
 
scotsman
scotsman 10 hours ago

I was in Edinburgh yesterday. Thought you had gone AWOL from the forum.
I'm not the most frequent poster but the gay threads always warm my heart. Too bad this thread wasn't a day earlier, maybe another time.
 +1 / -0
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 10 hours ago
Yeah, great idea WT, pressure children into judging their classmate's sinful god-displeasing artwork, and then telling them so. I can see that working out for the JW kid.
 +4 / -0

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https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/one-man-one-woman-marriage/.
disgusting!.



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New ANTI-GAY video for Kids on jw.org
by ttdtt 2 days ago 161 Replies latest an hour ago   jw experiences
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freemindfade
freemindfade 10 hours ago

I'm not downplaying the message. I think its sick. But in true jwn fashion this discussion has turned into a pseudo armchair intellectual argument for the sake of arguing how its not hate. And in true jwn fashion nothing will be accomplished. Meanwhile it is turning heads on the internet but in this forum its downplayed as just watchtower being watchtower.
I'm merely trying to get to the heart of why this is not just doctrine but encouraging homophobia in kids. It shouldn't be downplayed like it is.
 
cofty
cofty 10 hours ago

I'm merely trying to get to the heart of why this is not just doctrine but encouraging homophobia in kids - fmf
Because kids comes home from school with the message that gay marriage is ok.
The WT want to challenge that view.
 
freemindfade
freemindfade 10 hours ago

Cofty just because little Sophia is smiling and talking about paradise doesn't make it not homophobia.
Mom is talking about how to engage her school mate and how they can change in order not be killed by god. Its not that complicated.
 +3 / -0
dubstepped
dubstepped 10 hours ago

Cofty: dubstepped - Did you read Steve2's comments?
He self-identifies as a gay man.
"It's clearly NOT a hateful video. The adjective "hateful" has become an over-used word to describe anyone who dares disagree with you on a sensitive issue." - Steve2
Taking offense doesn't count. It is a cowardly way to shut down conversation.
I looked it up and hate speech is speech that offends, insults, or threatens groups, based on things such as sexual orientation. I'm pretty sure that most gay people would be offended at that video.
So now Steve2 not only speaks for all gay humanity but also sets definitions of words. Gotcha. We're all wrong because 1. Cofty says so folks, end of thread. Or, just maybe you feel one way and we feel the other. It's cool with me. Clearly it never is with you.
 +3 / -0
fulltimestudent
fulltimestudent 10 hours ago
Cofty:
◦ttdtt - Are you serious?

The OT and the NT judge homosexuality. Paul says homosexuals won't inherit the kingdom. Are you seriously suggesting the WT could get away with permitting gay sex?
10% of all mammals exhibit homosexual or bisexual activity
Only humans and domestic sheep display lifelong homosexual preference even when hetrosexual sex is available.
--------------------------------------------
There are two propositions to be challenged in this part of the conversation.
First ttdtt's assertion, that: "10% of all mammals exhibit homosexual or bisexual activity"
A very high number of animal species (including, but not limited to mammals) can exhibit sexual behaviour with the same sex. Bruce Bagemihl's acclaimed analysis of zoological research on animal sexual behaviour discusses evidence of same sex, sexual behaviour in 450 different species of animals.
Because Bagemihl's work was essentially a meta study, analysing the work of many other zoologists, I do not think his conclusions have been seriously challenged.
It leaves a big hole in the Christian (including our former loving brothers and sisters) claim that the creation work of the YHWH/JESUS design team is always consistent with their moral laws.
The other assertion I wish to challenge is your (Cofty's) assertion that:
"Only humans and domestic sheep display lifelong homosexual preference even when heterosexual sex is available."
For example (just to cite two other species), Bagemihl, cites field work reports that some species of penguin's have been observed where some male bird's develop 'homosexual pair bonds' that last for the life span of the birds.
A sort of pair bonding also seems to develop with male elephants, and there are others.
However, the real problem with the remark is that it ignores the research that indicates that the 'natural' sexuality of most animal species is a sexual fluidity. This concept more easily explains the reality that can be observed in the natural world (human's included).
If non-one does any other research on the topic, have a look at the reviews of Bagemihl's book on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Biological-Exuberance-Homosexuality-Diversity-Stonewall/dp/031225377X
and maybe this page in Noel Castree's, "Making Sense of Nature." (p.85 of the google books site).
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=6UptAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA85&lpg=PA85&dq=challenging+Bruce+Bagemihl%27s,+Biological+Exuberance&source=bl&ots=Tcn6-hjloc&sig=XH1d1lz6iegu_8P3ewksRhH8Ak0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjBrJHU-r7MAhVGtpQKHY_GBYQQ6AEIMTAD#v=onepage&q=challenging%20Bruce%20Bagemihl's%2C%20Biological%20Exuberance&f=false





◦
 +1 / -0
cofty
cofty 10 hours ago

So now Steve2 not only speaks for all gay humanity but also sets definitions of words. Gotcha. - dubstepped
Steve2 is a gay man and a 3rd generation JW. His opinion is worth taking note of.
Cofty says so folks, end of thread.
That is a total distortion of the conversation.
I have made many comments and arguments on this thread and totally condemned the video a number of times. Some of the comments in this thread are exaggerated and unreasonable. Apparently saying so isn't popular. Welcome to the JWN echo chamber.
maybe you feel one way and we feel the other. It's cool with me. Clearly it never is with you.
It's cool with me but that doesn't mean I am not allowed to respond to questions and critical comments.




 
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 10 hours ago

Sophia the mini elderette is in training for when she marries an the elder-son of the COBE and then she can lord it over the whole congregation with her moral superiority.
The real message of the video should be Sophia's mother saying "How will you ever get to marry an elder dear if you don't learn how to meddle, judge and counsel others now"
 +3 / -0
cofty
cofty 10 hours ago

Fulltimestudent - Hundreds of animals engage in same-sex activity but there is no evidence that any animals apart from domestic sheep are exclusively homosexual when hetrosexual sex is available.
 
freemindfade
freemindfade 10 hours ago
So cofty question because I want to understand would you consider this video encouraging homophobia to kids or not?
 
cofty
cofty 10 hours ago

I want to understand would you consider this video encouraging homophobia to kids or not?
Since I am being judged on semantics please tell me how you are defining homophobia first.
 +0 / -1

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https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/one-man-one-woman-marriage/.
disgusting!.



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New ANTI-GAY video for Kids on jw.org
by ttdtt 2 days ago 161 Replies latest an hour ago   jw experiences
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M*A*S*H
M*A*S*H 10 hours ago

A better video would be the little girl coming home and saying she might be gay... I would like to see the reaction to that.
I wonder if any JW parent showing this video to their child has ever considered their child might already know (or suspect) they are gay? What kind of psychological damage that could cause is beyond contemplating.
 +4 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 10 hours ago


I'm merely trying to get to the heart of why this is not just doctrine but encouraging homophobia in kids. It shouldn't be downplayed like it is.
This has gone off course the title of the op is not anti gay video its anti gay video for kids.
 FOR KIDS.....................freemindfade
Which is Disgusting..
Regardless of how Apologists would Like to Spin It..
.
..............................Image result for thumb up through screen
 +2 / -1
dubstepped
dubstepped 10 hours ago

M*A*S*H - A better video would be the little girl coming home and saying she might be gay... I would like to see the reaction to that.
Great point. My wife and I had a family that we were close with from a rural area about an hour away. Their little girl said constantly since the time she was well, a little girl, that she wanted to be a boy. She always kept her hair short and wore boy clothes except at meetings and in service. We found out later in life that as a teen she was asking other girls if they would find her attractive if she was a boy. Her parents were hard core, very rigid in their dubdom. We lost contact once they moved away and now that we've disassociated I'm sure they'd never in a million years talk to us, but I wonder what happened to their daughter. She clearly had issues from early on, and her parents would NOT accept any alternative anything. I hope she found peace despite all of the hateful messages that she heard and what her family would say.
 +1 / -0
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 9 hours ago

I was in the FS group of an elder in our cong. They had a little boy who loved to wear his older sisters clothes and handbags from when he was a toddler, he would cry when they took them away from him and smacked him and told him Jehovah doesn't like boys to wear girls clothes. He was a baby, he didn't understand this, he only knew what he liked. My heart broke for him, he was the sweetest little boy. I wondered what this was doing his psyche.
 +2 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 9 hours ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
 
freemindfade
freemindfade 9 hours ago

Cofty
In this instance I would define it this way.
Little girl notices something different. She has no thought on it but curiosity.
Mom noticing the little girl hasn't formed a disgust for this practice is afraid now not that her child will just accept it but could now practice it.
She has teach her child this behavior is something to be feared. How? This will get you banned from paradise like someone with a bomb will get banned from the airport. Fear
Now the little girl will carry this fear with her and her own sexual development. But wait there is more! She is gonna let this other girl in on the fear using the punishment reward scenario.
Jw homophobia boils down to if we don't hate what Jehovah hates then we accept it. The child was a blank slate for discrimination in this case and mom demonstrated how to draw fear on that slate and bigotry.
That is how I define it here.
 +3 / -0
cofty
cofty 9 hours ago

JW children have always been taught that practising gay people will not be in paradise. I was taught that 40 years ago.
In fact they have always been taught that 9.99999% of humanity will not be in paradise.
This is nothing new. The cartoon is a PR disaster but to us the content is old hat. I understand non-JWs expressing shock but I am puzzled why the forum is behaving as if something has changed.
 +1 / -5
freemindfade
freemindfade 9 hours ago

Yes they've always taught it but putting a cartoon on jworg is new! This is making it more visible to the world how they brainwash their kids.
Tm3 was always am asshole but most didn't know it until the now famous tight pants talk. Its about their ugly side coming out from behind the love bombing and good press . more visible
 +2 / -0
Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Billy the Ex-Bethelite 9 hours ago


Zero homosexual JW's can find a mate.
There have been plenty of gay JWs that have married a JW of the opposite sex. As Sophia's mom explains, "...he (Jehovah) knows how we can be happiest. That's why he invented marriage the way he did.... And you know what? People can change!" Pretty straightforward here that marriage (one man and one woman marriage, that is) is supposed to guarantee happiness. And Sophia's mom says plainly that a person's sexual orientation can change. Makes it pretty clear that as far as she is concerned, whether she's with a man or a woman doesn't matter to her, but she married a dude because Jehovah said it would make her happy and get her into paradise. Maybe she had to dump a girlfriend in order to get through the Kingdumb Haul gaydar detector.

So now Sophia is supposed to start recruiting her little classmate so those two mommies will get gay divorced and marry a couple of fine JW brothers, perhaps also gay divorced. Homosexual JWs marrying a JW of the opposite sex in order to change their desires? Homer Simpson was more accurate when he explained, "I guess some people never change. Or, they quickly change, and then quickly change back."

 +1 / -0
cofty
cofty 9 hours ago

This is making it more visible to the world how they brainwash their kids.
I agree.
 +1 / -0

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https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/one-man-one-woman-marriage/.
disgusting!.



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New ANTI-GAY video for Kids on jw.org
by ttdtt 2 days ago 161 Replies latest an hour ago   jw experiences
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steve2
steve2 8 hours ago

I'd like to see a focus in this great thread on what Sophie's Mom actually says to Sophie - not what this Mom is alleged to have said.
This JW Mom advised Sophie to talk to the girl with two Moms about the hope of paradise and playing with animals.
This JW Mom did NOT advise Sophie to talk to the girl about her two Moms - especially about Jehovah's  view of their marriage.
Yet at least three posters have stated that Sophie will go back to school and make judgmental comments about the other girl's Moms.
Sure we can speculate beyond this scenario to all kinds of judgemental things Sophie is being taught and that she MIGHT say to the other girl. But that is very different from what her Mom told her she could say.


 +1 / -3
Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Billy the Ex-Bethelite 8 hours ago


This JW Mom advised Sophie to talk to the girl with two Moms about the hope of paradise and playing with animals.
This JW Mom did NOT advise Sophie to talk to the girl about her two Moms - especially about Jehovah's view of their marriage.
Maybe Sophia isn't like my niece. If you said anything in front of her, be prepared for everyone to hear all about it. She had no filter as a child, even now in her twenties we have to be prepared to shush her up and change the subject. Even if you swore her to secrecy, "oops, I forgot the party was supposed to be a surprise." I could easily have seen her in this case go back to school and tell Karrie all about the paradise, the animals, and the resurrection... and then continue the conversation with how she couldn't live there because she has two mommies who are trying to sneak bombs onto airplanes.
Makes me wonder how the conversation between Caleb and his friend that gave him the Sparlock toy was supposed to have gone down. "I threw it away because I didn't want to make Satan happy."

 +3 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 7 hours ago


Sophia`s Mom:..What would happen if someone tried to bring something on an airplane that wasn`t allowed?
Sophia:...They couldnt go on the trip..
Sophia`s Mom:...Right..It`s the same with Jehovah..
Translation..
.

.....................If Your Gay..
..Your not Flying on Jehovah Airlines......................As an Added Bonus..

.........Into The WBT$ "New System"............................You`ll Be Executed...
.Image result for airline.Image result for dead body chalk outline
.
That`s not a Healthy or Sane Message..
Especially in a Children`s Cartoon Video..
.

 +4 / -0
freemindfade
freemindfade 7 hours ago
Whatever guys and gals. Its not new light, it's bad press. I don't know where some of you think bigotry comes from but this is all i have to say. I won't excuse watchtower as easily. Sorry
 +2 / -0
compound complex
compound complex 7 hours ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy_Brown
Does anyone here recall the Murphy Brown and Dan Quayle "controversy" over family values?
CC
 
just fine
just fine 7 hours ago

I think the video is nuts but I am loving the bad press. Let's see how they spin this. The funny thing is I talked to my still in parents about gay marriage a while back and they were so proud of the witnesses because they don't make public statements to get involved in the LGBT issues. Lol - they're in the middle of it now!
Its nice when their own propaganda gets them.
 +5 / -0
Jehalapeno
Jehalapeno 6 hours ago
Steve2: just...ughhhhhh
 +2 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 6 hours ago

Well said billy!
Well said indeed....
We know that children do not understand the art of tact as an adult does. Their thinking is black and white.
If mum says that Jehovah doesn't approve of the two mummies, then she will treat the little girl at school like the evil worldly person she is....
 +1 / -0
betterdaze
betterdaze 5 hours ago
Hey, Sophia’s mommy was drawing too. Anyone notice?
Logos for “Orange Yarn Productions”.
Orange, as in Orange County, NY. Location of Warwick HQ.
Yarn, as in “a long or rambling story, especially one that is implausible.”
An inside joke?

 
Lieu
Lieu 5 hours ago

Judgmental much?
James 4:12 NET
But there is only one who is lawgiver and judge-the one who is able to save and destroy. On the other hand, who are you to judge your neighbor?
 

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https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/one-man-one-woman-marriage/.
disgusting!.



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glenster
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New ANTI-GAY video for Kids on jw.org
by ttdtt 2 days ago 161 Replies latest an hour ago   jw experiences
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RobertT18
RobertT18 4 hours ago
This is trending on social media and I saw this on a gaming forum board I visit. Also look at the dislikes on this YouTube vid

 
snugglebunny
snugglebunny an hour ago
Nothing has really changed, there are no surprises here. Witnesses have always been obsessed about sex one way or another. So the video is no surprise either. Notice how they lump everything on "it's what Jehovah wants" in an attempt to distance themselves from accusations of bigotry. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's hateful but it's certainly manipulative.

 

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disgusting!.



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Were you beaten as a child?
by purrpurr a day ago 47 Replies latest 15 minutes ago   jw experiences
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purrpurr
purrpurr a day ago

I've been confronting my mother with her dubious parenting skills (abuse) of me as a child. Particularly the beatings I would get with the wooden spoon. Not a light smack but hitting me as hard as she could for as long as she could. One time the spoon actually broke!
Now she sees it as she was only smacking me, because she was beaten herself by her father and with a cane, so in her mind that means that she didn't beat me... Because it wasn't the same. Odd reasoning I know. Then of course there's the bible and the GB actively encouraging parents to beat their children using that awful bronze age scripture.
In my adult life now whenever someone physically (surprises) me I jump out of my shoes and scream. I can't help it it's engrained reaction.
Did you get beaten? How do your parents justify themselves now?
 +4 / -0
OneEyedJoe
OneEyedJoe a day ago

My mother used a wooden spoon as well. Never broke it on me, but she did break it on my brother once when he tried to block the hit and the spoon connected with one of his knuckles. Spoon was normally on the butt. Sometimes she'd slap us across the face and leave a hand print.
Father's tool of choice was a 2" wide heavy leather belt. He'd whip us one hit per word while explaining what it was that we'd done wrong.
I'm not sure I hold it against them. They'd been indoctrinated to believe this was the best thing for us, and society at the time was pretty much in agreement. So while it's not something that I think is right to do, I can let it go. I'm hesitant to try to connect it to any lasting effect into adulthood too. Maybe it has had an effect on me, but I suspect that the effect is much smaller than having been raised in a cult overall. That's something I do sort of resent my parents for on some level.
 +2 / -0
Gefangene
Gefangene a day ago

My mom used to beat me. Slapping my face very hard that my ear felt deaf for a couple of hours. When she was angry at me she chased me through the flat and id throw myself on my bed curling myself up and she beat me with fists allover.. even on the head.
When I was a teen I got a glass shelf and I remember asking my mother to be careful not to break it during a rage episode directed at me...
 +1 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW a day ago


Were you beaten as a child?
Absolutely..I was told JW children enjoy being disciplined..
Especially for breaking WBT$ Rules..

Gawd help you if you disagreed..

How do your parents justify themselves now?
They were your typical obnoxious,pain in the ass,self righteous JW`s..
According to them,they never did anything wrong.....Ever..

Now they`re Good JW`s who no longer cause problems for anyone..
They`re dead..
.
......................http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys/waving.gif
 +7 / -0
Pete Zahut
Pete Zahut a day ago

I remember from about 4 or 5 years old regularly getting hauled out to the back seat of the car by my father during the meeting and having the living daylights beaten out of me with a belt.This happened to all the kids in the Hall. One Sister used to keep a length of black rubber hose from a washing machine in her purse and whip it out and whack her girls across their bare thighs right in the meeting. I remember how she'd brag that it stung but didn't leave a welt and recommended it to other Moms.

There was a tiny little girl named Tammy who they called the "NO MOMMY" girl. She's shriek in terror all the way up the aisle "NO MOMMY...NO MOMMY....I'LL BE GOOD" I remember purposely not looking at her so she wouldn't be embarrassed. (I'm getting teared up just thinking of all of this)

Later, when I had kids of my own, I said to my parents "What in the world could a 4 or 5 year old kid do during a meeting to warrant being beaten so severely? All I remember is that you thought I wasn't listening or was daydreaming and the terror of the pain and what was about to happen and the shame of being dragged up the aisle with everyone looking at me and then trying to control my whimpering and sniffles on the way back to my seat."
My parents, (who were actually lovely people), looked quite ashamed and said "Well....it's what we were admonished by the Society to do...looking back on it, you kids were really very well behaved and we'd do things a lot differently now, but that's what everyone expected you to do then"
I could see that they were ashamed so I dropped it but I said "A person really has to think for himself in these things....can't imagine beating my kids because someone expected me to."


 +9 / -0
GrreatTeacher
GrreatTeacher a day ago

Yes, I was dragged to the KH basement and spanked.
Due to my sceaming, some of the other children thought there was a monster down there, and, consequently they behaved.
 +1 / -0
Ucantnome
Ucantnome a day ago
I dont remember being beaten he kicked me out the door once for telling the truth
 
sparky1
sparky1 a day ago





"Were you beaten as a child?"-purrpurr
DOES A BEAR SHIT IN THE WOODS?
My mother was a pillar of our Circuit. One of the 'older women' that would always be pointed to as a model Christian and devout Jehovah's Witness. I watched her break a Melamine plate over my oldest sisters head and knock her out cold (She did this 2 times but I only saw it one time). On many occasions she would whip my two older sisters with an electrical extension cord on their bare legs. She was a very overweight woman and used this to her advantage. Once she caught one of my sisters skipping school.  When my sister got home, my mother knocked her to the floor, sat on her chest and then proceed to pound my sisters head into the floor. Once when she was mad at my brother, she knocked him over on his motorcycle. Good thing he wasn't moving! I was lucky enough to have her beat me about the head and shoulders with an old fashioned stacked heeled shoe once on the way to the meeting. I still have a scar behind my ear where she drew blood and never took me to a Doctor. Let me review: My mother hit or beat all of us with wooden spoons, extension cords, broom handles, plates, large carving knives, belts, small pieces of furniture, the metal hose from a vacuum cleaner, shoes, the bristle part of a hairbrush and just about anything that she could pick up and use. My mother sounds just like OUTLAW'S parents. She was a SAINT in her own eyes and her children were evil for 'making up stories about punishment that never happened'.
(If it were possible, OUTLAW, I would give your comment 100,000,000 likes for telling it like it REALLY was for many of us raised by unbalanced religious fanatics)
 +14 / -0
Dagney
Dagney a day ago

My mother would tell the story of me lining up my dolls to play meeting. She observed me angrily jerking them out of the seat and beating the heck out of them. She was taken aback as that was what I was copying from the meetings. She said it was sobering.
My heart goes out to all of those kids, who now are grown, but still bear the marks.
 +11 / -0
fulano
fulano a day ago

We (my brother and I) had it two or three times. I never even thought of touching my child now. It just is not the right thing to do.
 +2 / -0

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Were you beaten as a child?
by purrpurr a day ago 47 Replies latest 15 minutes ago   jw experiences
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Wasanelder Once
Wasanelder Once a day ago
I was pretty slow, so yes, jk. My parents were all about the threat. Seldom did we get whacked, a wooden spoon on the knuckles now and then when we sampled freshly baked cookies of course.

 +2 / -0
TheLiberator
TheLiberator a day ago

Of course.
Ages 1-4. Hand
Ages 5-6. Tupperware spoon
Ages 6-15. Leather belt, tree branches, forced to stand on knees in the middle of room for hour or more (otherwise you were beaten with leather belt until welts or blood appeared)
Attempted to throw you down a dark basement. Forced to do unusual chores like wax washers, dryers, etc. (otherwise, see above)
Screaming so loud you could hear him almost a block away. Hmm..anything else? Oh, one more thing. Bad= spilling tea on table at dinner.
Oh the joys of theocratic life! I did speak with elders due to beating my toddler sister and screaming at my 8 month old brother in the middle of the night. I was told that I needed to respect my dad.
 +2 / -0
stillin
stillin a day ago

You yup. Beaten pretty good. But ai remember what the beatings were for and I deserved it. No problem.
I didn't beat my kids much at all compared to what I got. Kids these days are such pussies. :wink:
 +1 / -4
Seeking agape
Seeking agape a day ago

yes I was beaten as a child, not as severely as most.
What got me was the pressure to beat my son at 9 mos old for making noise during the meeting. It was one of the reasons why I left. People would give me dirty looks for letting him play on the floor quietly during the meeting. I still feel bad for the beatings I doled out in the Kingdom Hall bathroom and at home.
I promised myself and I haven't spanked him since I left the Jw's when he was 6.
 +7 / -0
a watcher
a watcher a day ago

I was beaten black and blue by hand by my emotionally disturbed, alcoholic, violent, abusive masonic father.
Not a JW.

 +1 / -0
sowhatnow
sowhatnow a day ago

good gravy sparky, your mom [right?]  was a child abuser, lol.
I remember so many people who were pretty abusive to their kids.

for me, oh yes. my mom. [almost never my father. but he wasn't a jw. I cant remember my dad ever hitting me].

shed smack us with a bare hand, often wooden spoon, home made wood paddle. slap in the face, cant recall how young i was, but before going to the jw meetings we went to a Lutheran church, one hour services, and all us little ones were in the basement for sunday school. i was only a toddler then, but at age 5 is when she started gong to khall. and along with that, the beatings.lol because Id talk..... ask questions, whatever.

to go to go to k hall, and have to sit with adults and have with nothing to look at for two freaking hours, or more depending on if the meeting went OVERTIME was torture.
remember overtime? when they wouldn't get the watchtower paragraphs done on time? oh they would keep going till it was finished. half hour over sometimes. then long prayers. oh the long prayers. well it seemed long to a kid, lol

then comes along, when i was 8, my little brother was always getting the spoon, he was a challenge for my mom, in HER eyes. because then, we did not have any tablets or pencils to draw during the meeting. she expected a 3 yr old who just ate coco puffs before the Sunday meeting, to sit for two hours. usually hed fall asleep and snore,lol. hed be on the floor squirming he could not sit still. i felt bad for him, she was always dragging him in the basement bathroom and beating him, shed pull his pants down and give him the wooden spoon.and yes he had bruises, she never ever will admit it was child abuse.

these days, the young kids I can recall being at meetings, were in one of two groups, those whose parents were easy going, they'd bring a book bag with crayons coloring books, a blankie, cheerios in a Tupperware container. its like some event going on in the back row.lol.
babies looking all over the place and moms standing in the back with them.
or those whose parents drag them back every meeting to paddle, and tell them they are 'being watched' by jehoohoo, disappointing him, he doesn't like it when you misbehave, bla bla bla. poor kids.

 
rebel8
rebel8 a day ago

Yes, and she was deliberately brutal, choosing her weapons and targeting her blows to maximize their impact against my medical problems. She did it when she was frustrated with her own life, mad at me for not meeting her narcissistic needs, and for independent thinking. Granted, I was also a PIA kid with an attitude, but 95% of that was due to her being a sick individual in a sick cult.
She does not justify herself at all now. She does not believe it needs justifying. The borg said your kid would not die if you beat her, and I didn't die, so their truth is proven (in her warped mind). Not only was she told I wouldn't die, but she was commanded to beat me.
Yes, the talks from the platform characterized children as bulls that needed to be bridled and beaten into submission--there is no other way to teach children.
Once I tried reading her the scriptures about exasperating your children (can't remember the exact quote right now), and well, you can guess how she reacted.
There was some publication in the 80s that said parents needed to wean themselves off the beatings as a child aged and learned how to control herself. I read that to her as well, but she said I wasn't ready for that. On my high school graduation day, she was embarrassed to have refused to give me a gift or celebrate it, and tried taking that out on me (as she did with any of her personal frustrations). I held her arms back and informed her she would never hit me again. And she didn't.

 +4 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon a day ago
NO, I wasn't raised a JW. Thank God.
 +4 / -0
jwfacts
jwfacts a day ago

Yes, she broke a few wooden spoons on me, but it is ok because it was done "out of love."
There is an article at http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/child-discipline-corporal-punishment.php outlining the Watchtower stance on spanking children.
 
talesin
talesin a day ago

TheLiberator -- I'm so sorry that was your childhoood, and I understand. xo tal
 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
i've been confronting my mother with her dubious parenting skills (abuse) of me as a child.
particularly the beatings i would get with the wooden spoon.
not a light smack but hitting me as hard as she could for as long as she could.



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Were you beaten as a child?
by purrpurr a day ago 47 Replies latest 17 minutes ago   jw experiences
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Bonsai
Bonsai a day ago
Yup. Three parents took their turn finding all kinds of ways to inflict pain on me. But to be fair, I mostly deserved it. My step father knocked me silly and gave me a bloody nose in the KH parking lot. Great way to start a meeting. I remember once my mother spanked my liitle brother's diapered butt in the KH and got shit all over her hand. LOL

 +2 / -0
ShirleyW
ShirleyW a day ago

Spanking to the point that leaves welts and scars I don't believe in AT ALL , but I have to say though that it isn't just JWs who believe in spanking, if you watch a certain rerun of The Andy Griffith Show at the end he asks a dad if he wants to go to the shed in the back and teach his son a lesson. Raven Symone on THe VIew is just 30 and she has several times that since her folks or southeners as she is, if she even attempted to do certain things she knew she was "gonna get a whuppin".
I'm over 50 so of course most of the kids back then were spanked but nowadays not too many parents believe in spanking, which just might be the problem with some of the young folks today (yea, I said it) since some parents do the "friend thing" with their kids and/or just give up. I believe in spanking, have no kids, but believe in it. Just my opinion and probably not a popular one here on this forum.
 +3 / -1
Terry
Terry a day ago

I was:
1. Slapped in the face
2. Beaten with a belt on my butt and lower back (still have the scars.)
3. Given ice water enemas
4. Spanked with open hand on my butt
5. beaten with a fist
6. screamed at, cursed as well as given the "silent treatment" for over a year.
7. made to wash my mouth out with Lye soap.
8. Given two tablespoons of Cod Liver Oil
 
Pete Zahut
Pete Zahut a day ago

4 minutes ago

Yup. Three parents took their turn finding all kinds of ways to inflict pain on me. But to be fair, I mostly deserved it.
The fact that you think you "mostly deserved it " shows that the damage still lingers.



BIG PEOPLE DON'T HIT LITTLE PEOPLE....NO CHILD DESERVES TO BE GIVEN A BLOODY NOSE BY HIS FATHER !

 +4 / -0
Bonsai
Bonsai a day ago
I also believe kids need a good smack sometimes, but it should be done in when all efforts to reason with the child have failed. Children should always know what they are being punished for and it shouldn't be done while in a heated anger. My mother often gave me three strikes (warnings) and then busted out the wooden paddle. I don't do that with my children, but it was very effective in teaching me that doing stupid stuff would lead to serious consequences.

 +1 / -0
LisaRose
LisaRose a day ago

Children do not need to be spanked to be taught to behave, they just don't, it's not even really that effective. I spanked my kids, although not very much, but if I had it to do over again I wouldn't. Hitting, especially in anger, just shows your child that you can't control your temper and that physical violence is the way to solve things, why would you want to teach them that? It is so much better to model good behavior, be consistent, kind but firm. It may take more time and effort, but it's so much better for the child. There are other forms of discipline, time outs, taking away privileges, extra chores, whatever.
My grandson was a strong and determined child a real handful. I was concerned when my daughter said she was never going to use physical punishment, but she was right, he turned out to be a fine young man.
 +1 / -1
sparky1
sparky1 a day ago



This book should be required reading for all new parents.....religious or otherwise.
 +2 / -0
purrpurr
purrpurr a day ago

Wow this sounds like it's pretty common in the Borg. My mother was still hitting me in my early twenties. By then she had moved on to fists, slaps and big time physiological abuse. When I got a jw boy friend and started courting him I had to tell her that if I married him I'd be moving out. She thought he would move in to her house and that she would control us both(!) Her response was to go crazy hitting and slapping me! I told my boy friend via text and he was mad about it for a while but then he spoke to his parents who told him not to get involved. So he called me up and told me just that!!
Yep my boy friend wasn't going to support me or defend me against my mother! That was the beginning of the end for that relationship, I dumped him soon after.
My mother has now stopped her physical abuse of me but only after I resorted to blackmailing her with the loss of her career if she ever touched me again. It's incredible the lenghts i had to go to to stop it. But throughout my life growing up in the Borg most of the Cong knew exactly what my mother was doing to me but no one ever said or did a thing about it. Not even a sheparding call about screaming and abusive speech etc nothing. I remember once my mother telling the elderettes a "funny" story...
That she had had a plate fall on her foot in the kitchen and it hurt so much that she turned to me and started punching me! Hahahahaha! How funny said my mother, and proceeded to clarify "you know what it's like when you get a sudden pain you just have to hit someone you know?" The elderette just looked at her but said nothing! Nothing!
Later in life when I went to the elders myself about her abuse they would just say "all we can do is encourage you" like throwing the word encourage around was going to help. I felt like saying to them "encourage is a word that implys action!"
Oh the happy spiritual paradise that is the Borg!
 +1 / -0
neat blue dog
neat blue dog a day ago

Yes, with a belt, a fly swatter and by hand. Once I saw stars. 😜
 
Lieu
Lieu a day ago

Yeppers. I'm still alive.
It was a generational thing. JWs had no moratorium on spankings. School teachers could spank you in my day. Principal had a wooden  paddle with holes in it.
Betcha didn't act like a fool in the grocery store, curse at adults, or kill your peers just because.
 +3 / -0

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Topic Summary
i've been confronting my mother with her dubious parenting skills (abuse) of me as a child.
particularly the beatings i would get with the wooden spoon.
not a light smack but hitting me as hard as she could for as long as she could.



Related Topics
Divergent
Does growing up in a religious family make you MEAN?
by Divergent 6 months ago
Nicholaus Kopernicus
One Reason Why I Could Never Again be an Elder
by Nicholaus Kopernicus 6 months ago
Mephis
Australian Royal Commission Findings released
by Mephis 5 months ago
Wonderment
The mistranslation of John 14.10
by Wonderment 4 months ago
AndersonsInfo
New Article on Reveal by Trey Bundy: JW's shield child sex abusers from police, report says
by AndersonsInfo 5 months ago



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Were you beaten as a child?
by purrpurr a day ago 47 Replies latest 17 minutes ago   jw experiences
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LV101
LV101 a day ago

sparky1 - Alice Miller's books are the best. She doesn't sugarcoat the parent's abuse and calls it what it is -- hatred for the child. One of her great books is "Drama of the Gifted Child" -- excellent read.
 +1 / -0
Aprostate Exam
Aprostate Exam a day ago
Ohh yes, I got beaten more times in the Kingdom Hall restroom than at home. My mother did this more in demonstration to show all the brothers that her children were the cause of her disturbance. She pulled me down the isle many times as I screamed my ass off. All brothers would see me being taken to the back and it almost seemed like they had a stupid smile on their face. My mother enjoyed the self pity she brought upon herself after the meetings. I thank my creator if he exists, for my father that never gave himself completely to this cult. It all ended when my mother tried to slap the shit out me on schedule for me flipping pages with my bible. I got up and screamed at her, "This is the last time you do this to me"! I was 15 and big enough to block her hands. The brothers in the hall sided with her as always and she would cry telling the sisters that her children were evil. The brothers blamed the apparent happenings on our unbaptized father "Satan". Now, I admit to loving my dad more. I sat away from her from then forward.
 +3 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 a day ago

Yes, wooden spoons were commonly used.
Remember, this was SANCTIONED and PROMOTED by the society at the time.
During the Australian Royal Commission, G Jackson was extensively questioned re Corporal punishment, and he was backed into a corner and LIED by saying that "no, we do not condone corporal punishment"
 +1 / -0
joey jojo
joey jojo a day ago

My parents were pretty reasonable with corporal punishment. Definitely got the belt from dad and the feather duster and electrical cord from Mum but only once or twice. Never fists or slapped faces.
My cousins though- a different story. They were JW's (not anymore) and my Aunty would do anything to her daughters. Electric cords across the back of bare legs, purple bruises and broken skin. I saw her break a wooden spoon on my 10 yr old cousins arm and keep hitting her with the handle. Brushes, fists, bamboo canes. My wife got it almost the same from her parents growing up as JW's. Hardly any of the behaviour warranted the ridiculous punishments some kids got.
When I think about the real little bastards, the kids that always misbehaved, even though they got beaten regularly, they still acted out, that's why I doubt corporal punishment really works. Maybe in some cases but not all.
Ahh the 70's, the good old days.
 +1 / -0
GoneAwol
GoneAwol 17 hours ago

Me and my brother got the cricket bat, yes thats correct, the cricket bat. A silver coloured Sondico full size. Anything that riled our step dad, that was it. We used to have bunk beds made of angle iron, he would make us bend over under the top one, then wack! Sore arse and bonse at the same time.
I turned 13, my bro 18 months older. I smashed the kitchen window larking about, and my step dad came running after me with the bat. My bro grabbed it and beat the crap out of him. Never touched us after that
Oh yeah, hes 69 now. And he works for me. Happy days.
 +1 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 17 hours ago
No I never was.
 +1 / -0
LoveUniHateExams
LoveUniHateExams 17 hours ago

Did you get beaten?
No. I did get smacked a few times.
 +1 / -0
cofty
cofty 17 hours ago

One day we will all look back and wonder why we ever thought it was acceptable for adults to hit children.
There is no need - ever!
 +3 / -0
Londo111
Londo111 15 hours ago
By hand, switch, and belt. Once hit by a metal rod. Once my father pitched his shoe at me.
 
Defianttruth
Defianttruth 15 hours ago

I've tried to post on this for 2 days now. I will type and erase, and type and erase............................
Tortured is the only thing I can come up with. I don't like the details of it. It makes me sick. I never had a choice to be a JW. I was forced to become one. I was regularly whipped, not beaten. I stress this when I talk to people about it. There is a huge difference between a beating and a whipping. I would take a beating any day of the week. I was tortured by a father who was in good standing by his multinational, multimillion dollar religious organization when I was a kid. I was then forced to become a member only to be tortured again for the rest of my life by being cut off from my family. I remember talking to an elder about it. I had to tread carefully as to not attract the wrath of my father. When I told him about it, he laughed and remarked,"boys can be a tough lot to straighten out".
 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
i've been confronting my mother with her dubious parenting skills (abuse) of me as a child.
particularly the beatings i would get with the wooden spoon.
not a light smack but hitting me as hard as she could for as long as she could.



Related Topics
Divergent
Does growing up in a religious family make you MEAN?
by Divergent 6 months ago
Nicholaus Kopernicus
One Reason Why I Could Never Again be an Elder
by Nicholaus Kopernicus 6 months ago
Mephis
Australian Royal Commission Findings released
by Mephis 5 months ago
Wonderment
The mistranslation of John 14.10
by Wonderment 4 months ago
AndersonsInfo
New Article on Reveal by Trey Bundy: JW's shield child sex abusers from police, report says
by AndersonsInfo 5 months ago



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Were you beaten as a child?
by purrpurr a day ago 47 Replies latest 18 minutes ago   jw experiences
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newgirl
newgirl 12 hours ago
I'm stunned, I'm so sorry that happened to soo many. I was raised Catholic and Lutheran. ...I'm not Baptized JW...but I do attend the half hour meetings, not the watch tower portion. I feel it's too long for my 11 year old, no point if she's bored and gets nothing from it. We do have in home teaching twice a month. I had no idea how strict jw parents were and if I was in a meeting and saw any abuse I have to say....liked or not. I'd step in and stop it! Again. .I'm so sorry for all who suffered.
 
Magwitch
Magwitch 11 hours ago
Didn't Mr. Jackson tell the world last August that his special religion did not believe in "Corporal Punishment" for children?
 +1 / -0
jookbeard
jookbeard 11 hours ago
yes, a stick,belt/hand kick whatever
 
cofty
cofty 11 hours ago

HI newgirl, welcome to the forum.
Please keep reading and asking questions.
Whatever you do please, please keep your 11 year old daughter safe from this religion.
 +1 / -0
sparky1
sparky1 11 hours ago



Welcome newgirl. You can learn a lot from this forum.))))
 
Dunedain
Dunedain 3 hours ago

The problem, and why this was and, in many cases still is, so prevalent in the JW cult, is because the "religion" is mostly about show.
Its about showing you are "spiritual" by pioneering, being an Elder, a MS, going out in service like a robot, answering at meetings,attending every meeting, and so on, and so forth.
Part of the "show", is making everyone think you are a great parent, and that your children are obedient, little, spiritual clones of Mommy and Daddy. If you have a misbehaving, disobedient child, you could be thought of as being "unspiritual".
This is the worst possible outcome that could happen to someone in this cult, or at least that's what all these brainwashed assholes think. So it literally drives, spiritually striving parents to BEAT THEIR CHILDREN. It is sometimes in the most brutal, and abusive ways imaginable, and it is MOSTLY DONE IN THE "HOUSE OF GOD".
They should change the name of the Kingdom hall to the BEATING HALL. When you have the "pet" scriptures that JW's are so fond of using, and one is about "using the rod", being read from the podium, IT LITERALLY CREATES CHILD ABUSE.
Most of us have seen it. The "walks to the back", grabbing and pulling a 4 yr old childs arms, as they are screaming and crying, and being dragged to their doom in front of EVERYONE, and this is the NORM.
JW parents feel they have a "get out of jail free card", to beat the crap out of the children, and almost be silently praised and rewarded for it. It is almost like, the MORE you beat your child, the more you must be a spiritual parent, ITS SICK.
Yes, I WAS beaten. I was knocked unconscious by my father once, at 8 years old. I was beaten for soiling myself, BEFORE I was toilet trained. That's right, I REMEMBER the beatings from the age of 2 years old, because I couldn't use the toilet yet. I didn't understand why I was even being hit. Fortunately, I was a shy, little, quiet boy at the meetings, so I sat still, and didn't get THAT many beatings at the hall. Most happened at home.
It did eventually culminate AT the Kingdom Hall during my "rebellious" years, when at 15 years old me and my Elder Father got into a FIST FIGHT outside the Hall. It ended with him throwing me into the Kingdom hall front doors, that EVERYONE in the meeting heard it, and me running away, and spending the night like a homeless person in the street. My "crime", he found out I kissed a girl, and the elders told him before the meeting.
I have 2 daughters of my own now. They are the most beautiful, kind hearted, loving, thoughtful, children one could EVER ask for, and guess what I NEVER HIT either of them ONCE, and they both NEVER stepped a foot in the Kingdom Hall EVER.
I BROKE the cycle of abuse, and my life is wonderful for it.

 +1 / -0
purrpurr
purrpurr 2 hours ago

My mother would be more likely to beat me in the meeting if she saw other parents hauling their children out to the back. I would be minding my own business reading the meeting material etc then suddenly I'd be grabbed and yanked out of my seat. Mother would march me through the hall looking at the Cong with a triumphant smug grin on her face as if to say "look everybody I'm going to hit my child too! Aren't I great? Please accept me!"
Then of course I'd be in the foyer and she'd hit me in front of everyone there as hard as she could for as long as she could. Normally untill she had got me to cry, if I didn't cry then she couldn't prove that she had hit me enough.
Stupid thing was I really was a little goody two shoes, never naughty, never played up. Quite frankly I was always too scared to step a foot out of line. Even so no one ever stopped her or said anything to her about it.
 +1 / -0
Nathan Natas
Nathan Natas 18 minutes ago

Get her one of these wall decorations:



but don;t smack her with it.
 

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Topic Summary
i've been confronting my mother with her dubious parenting skills (abuse) of me as a child.
particularly the beatings i would get with the wooden spoon.
not a light smack but hitting me as hard as she could for as long as she could.



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Waking People Up With Well Thought Out Comments
by JW_Rogue a day ago 38 Replies latest 8 hours ago   jw experiences
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JW_Rogue
JW_Rogue a day ago
Is it possible to have an effect from the inside? With well thought comments that reveal more of the history of the organization? The next book we study will be "God's Kingdom Rules!" which sets itself up for extra research into the Proclaimers book.
 +3 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW a day ago


Waking People Up With Well Thought Out Comments
....Your In A Cult!..
Get The F*CK OUT!!..
....................................http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab110/GeneralWaco/thsmilie_happy_251.gif
 +5 / -5
JW_Rogue
JW_Rogue a day ago

Outlaw - That is really easy to say when you are already DF'd or DA'd let me give you a break down of my situation.
Immediate family: All JWs except one, includes an Elder and auxiliary pioneers. We've all been together in the same congregation since I was born.
Sister In Law and Nieces: All JWs
Wife: JW
Wife's Immediate family: All JWs
Childhood Friends: JWs
Social Circle: All JWs
So yeah I'd love to write a letter of disassociation and never go back. I could do that but that would not end things, that would only be the beginning of my troubles. If I have to put on a bit of act then I will do so. I have been doing it for a long time anyway.
 +13 / -0
JW_Rogue
JW_Rogue a day ago
Hell, I've barely even started fading and am catching some negativity. When they announce I'm no longer an MS my mom might have a mental breakdown. I know it's nonsense but for them it's the only thing that matters.
 +5 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW a day ago


Outlaw - That is really easy to say when you are already DF'd or DA'd.....JW_Rogue
I`m not Da`d or DF`d..
One day I had enough and walked out..
There`s no easy way out,you walk away or stay..
There`s consequences either way..
.

Your not going to change the WBT$ from the inside..
Your not going to Save JW`s who are happy where they are..
So you better figure out what you need to do,for you..

 +13 / -0
JW_Rogue
JW_Rogue a day ago

One day I had enough and walked out..
There`s no easy way out,you walk away or stay..
Don't think I can do it that way, too many people will push me until the truth comes out. Then it'll be off to a JC for me. Nope, gotta take it slow but steady.
 +1 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW a day ago


Don't think I can do it that way, too many people will push me until the truth comes out. Then it'll be off to a JC for me. Nope, gotta take it slow but steady.
Then stay..
There`s a price to pay either way..

 +6 / -0
JW_Rogue
JW_Rogue a day ago

Your not going to change the WBT$ from the inside..
Your not going to Save JW`s who are happy where they are..
I don't see a ton of happy people when I look around my family included. We are all pretty much glued in because of other family members. Not looking to save anyone but for all I know there are already others there with severe doubts just like I had.
 +5 / -0
NeverAllowestobeMyself
NeverAllowestobeMyself a day ago

I think you can. Over the last couple of years I have given well thought out comments that have resulted in people saying to me after the meeting "your comment really made me think."
The trick is to not say anything that can be used as a basis for an "investigation" conducted by two elders during a "shepherding call".
 +8 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW a day ago


I don't see a ton of happy people when I look around my family included.
Unhappy JWs will tell you how much they love being a JW..
They`ll fight to the death,to stay right where they are..
If you want to live a lie,that`s on you.
It will eat at you and you`ll die a little bit at a time..

It`s up to you,do what ever you want..

 +4 / -0

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Waking People Up With Well Thought Out Comments
by JW_Rogue a day ago 38 Replies latest 8 hours ago   jw experiences
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JW_Rogue
JW_Rogue a day ago

There`s a price to pay either way..
LOL Like I haven't thought about that, my situation doesn't exactly leave me with a ton of options. I have to distance myself from this org in a way that doesn't push away family or friends. Even non DF'd people can be marked and pretty much treated the same as DF'd. Nope, I have to seem like I slowly drifted away, that I'm "lazy" not that I'm an apostate.
 +5 / -0
Dreamerdude
Dreamerdude a day ago
Maybe I'm idealistic, but I thing some comments with a tinge of TTATT can add some CD to get people thinking, maybe in combination with other things going around. In my case I found the CD to be cumulative, until I reached the tipping point during a particularly ridiculous talk by a GB member.
 +1 / -0
Dreamerdude
Dreamerdude a day ago
Extremely cultish comments have the same effect. Like saying a guy that's 23 and still not a MS is not marriage material, or worthy of getting laid.
 +1 / -0
JW_Rogue
JW_Rogue a day ago

If you want to live a lie,that`s on you.
Been doing it for 35 years...a few more months for a better outcome isn't going to hurt anybody.
 +1 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW a day ago


I have to distance myself from this org in a way that doesn't push away family or friends.
DA`d..DF`d..or...A Weak JW..
Not exactly desirable company to Loyal WBT$ JWs..
You`ll be marked..

 
OUTLAW
OUTLAW a day ago


Been doing it for 35 years...
LOL!!..
35 years??!!..Wow..
You don`t have a lot of years left.....

 
smiddy
smiddy a day ago

JW_ Rogue
You have been doing it for 35 years ? , and what have you achieved in that time ?what makes you think a few more months is going to make any difference ?
Just asking
You have to ask yourself this question : Do I want my life to be manipulated by other people ? or am I going to live my life the way I want to live it.
smiddy
 +1 / -0
JW_Rogue
JW_Rogue a day ago

35 years??!!..Wow..
Yes, since the day I was born I was a JW. Was there really choice? No, might as well have been born with little suit and tie and tract to hand the householder. I don't think I ever really believed it though there was always part of me that knew it was all BS. That I was just acting, that believing was what I was "supposed" to do. That good people had faith or at least pretended like they did by doing and saying all the right things. Maybe some people feel differently but that's how I feel.
 +2 / -0
JW_Rogue
JW_Rogue a day ago

You have to ask yourself this question : Do I want my life to be manipulated by other people ? or am I going to live my life the way I want to live it.
I gave away the power I had to truly do things on my terms at 12 years of age. You can say don't play their games but right now they are holding all the cards. The only power I have is to lie or be completely silent. Leaving on my terms would mean speaking my mind and not giving a damn. I can't do that...too much at stake.
 +2 / -0
disposable hero of hypocrisy
disposable hero of hypocrisy a day ago

In answer to your original question, yes, you can.
But you must be careful, and in personal conversation frame things in questions. Just giving a fact here or a quotation there can get defenses up, and that can come back to bite you in the ass. I've had success in that way.
If you mean in the congregation, answering up, then I think possibly, but you have to be even more careful as the eldubs will be listening too and you don't want to get put on the radar.
If you have to be there (I share your pain bro) then good Christian answers can redirect the hate propaganda sometimes, and can show people that you know what you're talking about scripturally. This could come in handy in the future if word gets out about your doubts, 'brother rogue apparently has doubts? But he's such a knowledgeable brother. Maybe he's onto something...'




 +2 / -0

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Topic Summary
is it possible to have an effect from the inside?
with well thought comments that reveal more of the history of the organization?
the next book we study will be "god's kingdom rules!



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Waking People Up With Well Thought Out Comments
by JW_Rogue a day ago 38 Replies latest 8 hours ago   jw experiences
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JW_Rogue
JW_Rogue a day ago

Sometimes I get the impression that my wife wants me to come clean about what I'm thinking but then my brain says don't do it...



 
poopsiecakes
poopsiecakes a day ago

It's so hard to see situations like this. I absolutely understand the family and social pull and breaking away from all of that is the most difficult scenario to be a part of. I've seen people who have just blown everything up and walked away, some who have tried to quietly walk away and ultimately been blown apart and those who are still trying to 'fade' and feel forced into living a lie every day of their lives. Outlaw is absolutely right, every choice has its consequences and all of them mean that you won't have the same relationship with the people you're allowing to control you at this moment. Short term pain is worth more than long term deceit and the toll that takes on everyone, including you. (my two cents)
 +1 / -0
JW_Rogue
JW_Rogue a day ago

My wife: How do you feel about the truth?
Me: I don't want to talk about it
My wife: Actions speak louder than words and right now I don't see you doing much for the truth? Have you just gotten lazy?
Me: What do you think? Does that seem like me?
My wife: I guess not
END OF CONVERSATION
 +2 / -0
poopsiecakes
poopsiecakes a day ago

And that's great, Rogue. Small victory there, until you break down the actual conversation. You're using JW speak (the truth) when you talk to her. I get what you're doing, but you're not helping the situation in the long term. Instead of saying 'the truth', try 'the religion' or 'the corporation' and see how that goes. Cognitive dissonance manifests itself in many different ways and you may be suffering from it somewhat. Be true to YOU and what YOU believe and want for YOU. Otherwise, you'll always be on this treadmill and nobody wants that for you or anyone.
 +1 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy a day ago
I was able to wake up a friend but he was already going threw marriage problems and the elders weren't treating him well either. It seems to me that people need to go through something emotional first to start the proccess.
 +1 / -0
smiddy
smiddy a day ago

I don`t mean to sound cynical , do I get the impression there may be a financial loss in your walking away from your family and this religion ?
just asking
smiddy
 
Half banana
Half banana a day ago

JW rogue, sympathy bro! I know others in your situation. One thing you are probably driven to is to live inside your head as it were, to think about reality outside of the JW delusion and enjoy the real world that way. To physically leave suddenly of could make matters worse.
Perhaps in your casual comments you could stress the facts that the early Christian congregation seemed to think that welfare within the community was a priority (widows and orphans), The GB couldn't care a fig about the welfare of their followers even for the suffering of victims of sexual abuse. In fact the more they suffer the more dependent they become...
JWs I think, might be likened to a troupe of high-wire artists who have all fallen into the safety net...that is the KH community. from their viewpoint there is nothing underneath the net left to save them. It is this crippling vision of their place in life which holds them there in fear.
People who believe they are worthless will punish themselves and make bad choices.
The Watchtower of course encourages this since fear and worthlessness are the very factors they routinely exploit. The only people useful to the organisation are those who are guilt ridden, emotionally and educationally stifled and who therefore remain totally dependent on it to give them the imaginary fix of paradise .
Suggestion 1
Have you thought about building up your wife's self confidence as opposed to her abject religious dependency? A new job or new interest?
Suggestion 2
How about continuing to take it slowly, keep them on your side but sharing things you have learned which get the family to start thinking for themselves? Make some allies in your mild scepticism, preferably including your wife.
Suggestions 3
Expressing the oddness that if Big J was behind the JW org, surely, you would have thought he would get his dates right? The WT teaching for seventy odd years that the generation which saw 1914 would also see the end? JWs have never got a prophecy right...nor did Jesus get his generation prophecy right. Mark 9,1.
It's a trap all right!
 +3 / -0
User99
User99 a day ago
Thanks for your insightful comments, Half Banana. I had to read the italicized sentence and the following paragraph a few times, as they really hit home to me as to the truth in those words..
 +1 / -0
stillin
stillin a day ago

Then there's the fine line between making a comment that rattles people's cognitive dissonance and making a truly good comment. The latter actually adds to the quality of the meeting and as you fade, people will make conclusions about your absence. " a smart guy like Rogue is having less and less to do with being a Witness. Maybe he knows something..."
But in the end, people will do whatever it is they will do. You'd like to think that you are helping somebody to step out into the light, but they may just prefer the dark.
 +1 / -0
wannaexit
wannaexit a day ago
As others have said , you can make some comments that can have an impact on others. I've done it many times. Just be careful not too say something that is too controversial because they will yank you to the back room.

 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
is it possible to have an effect from the inside?
with well thought comments that reveal more of the history of the organization?
the next book we study will be "god's kingdom rules!



Related Topics
Island Man
Lurking JWs: Do people really need to know and use the word "Jehovah" or other language equivalents, to truly know God?
by Island Man 20 days ago
new boy
Chapter 2 of the Novel "New Boy"
by new boy a month ago
Gorbatchov
2002 radio interview with J.R. Brown, spokesman of WTBTS (The God Show)
by Gorbatchov 4 months ago
Noble Lion
According to the Bible, the Watchtower is *NOT* the Faithful and Discreet Slave
by Noble Lion 3 days ago
new boy
How Did My Book Come About?
by new boy 3 months ago



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Waking People Up With Well Thought Out Comments
by JW_Rogue a day ago 38 Replies latest 8 hours ago   jw experiences
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OneEyedJoe
OneEyedJoe 19 hours ago

It didn't take me long to give up on waking anyone else up. It wasn't worth the effort for me, and it's not my responsibility to force anyone to open their eyes. What I did do while I was still in, though, was try to give comments and talks that would get the JWs nodding in agreement, unknowingly condemning themselves.
◦Make mention of how we would want to avoid association with ANY organization that knowingly hides pedophiles to save face in the public eye, like the catholic church.
◦Talk about how religious organizations often join the UN (the scarlet colored beast from revelation!) and how we would want to avoid association with any organization that has (or ever had) a membership in the UN.
◦Tell the story of Harold Camping (or similar - there's lots to choose from) predicting armageddon then changing the date when it didn't happen on his schedule and liken him to a false prophet that in the days of isreal would've been given the death sentence.
◦When stories about isreal come up in which the people die because the king is misleading them or because he made some mistake, remind them that god holds us personally accountable for who we put our allegiance in. In the case of the isrealites they put their allegiance in what was "god's organization" at the time, but when men lead it astray they were punished for continuing to follow it - we must continue to examine what we put our allegiance in to ensure that we are not putting faith in men who are not following god.
I'm under no illusions that any of this would wake someone up (maybe if they're already really on the fence...) but it sure was fun to do stuff like this and get the clueless JWs unknowingly condemning themselves. I guess it was a bit of revenge for forcing me to give my tacit approval to the cult by forming a system that makes free speech and objection impossible.
 +2 / -0
Doubting Bro
Doubting Bro 15 hours ago
Yeah, I slip stuff into talks or the very rare comment but honestly it's just fun for me. No one pays attention to comments at the meeting anyway! Sometimes I think I could come out with the most "apostate" statement and people would smile and shake their heads.
 +1 / -0
Dagney
Dagney 14 hours ago

Everybody has been in your shoes, most all our families and social network are die hard JW's. We all know the costs of staying and leaving.
We all want our loved ones to see the TTATT. In the end, the only thing that matters is how we each choose to live our life, and believe me, seeing those years tick away leading a double life will not add comfort or satisfaction to a life lived.
Staying in and planting subversive comments has been considered by many, I'm not sure, but the success rate is probably really low. Some have successfully got their mates out, but the plan was carefully orchestrated. And from the ones I know personally, the believing mate was secure enough and respectful enough of their mate to not throw them under the bus. What is impressive about anybody is confidence, strength and courage to live your life fully. That is a huge statement to those who are in, even though they make take the hard line against you. You will be a curiousity as they become resentful as they trudge to the meetings and SA/RC/CA, and FS. Living well, keeping your wits about you, keeping them curious may keep the lines of communication open.
When I left I said "I have issues with the corporation." "It's between me and Jehovah." Nobody wanted to know, nobody asked more, except my elder/COBE brother...he was the only one.
My suggestion is to say very little. A well worded comment, (see On the Way Out's journey...he has really well thought out comments), can buy some peace. BTW, how you answered your wife was perfect... Take this time to be the best person you can be...have fun alone and with them.
The WT has convinced everybody they have no right to live an authentic life, and they are wrong. They don't care about anybody...their existence is to keep the corporation going at any expense. Every minute we give to them eats away at our true self...and the only way to help others see that is to claim your true self. Don't sacrifice it to the cult.
This journey is hard and it sucks. But the feeling of being true to yourself is glorious. I wish you strength for the journey.
 +3 / -0
WatchtowerReviewz
WatchtowerReviewz 14 hours ago

Since this is a lose-lose situation I personally composed a brief letter citing the very specific reasons as to why I was leaving the organization and I sent it to every single Jehovah's Witness I know. Everyone except my Elders, ONLY the rank and file JWs that I knew received my letter.
The entire disassociating process is a set up, you aren't meant to walk away clean no matter what.
 I personally wouldn't bother composing a letter to send to Bethel Headquarters or to your body of Elders. The best solution is to do the unexpected. Ignore Watchtower protocol and reach out to everyone on an individual level instead of submitting yourself to character assassination by way of rumors. Let there be no doubts as to why you left. The vast majority may ignore it but the one or 2 people that do read it will be grateful someday. This is all assuming you can afford to do something like this of course.
 
millie210
millie210 14 hours ago

Begin with the end in mind.
Then work back to where you are now.
I want to end up with the freedom to move laterally around in my family and social circle.
I am also completely done with the JWs as having ANY truth other than the common things everyone else possesses.
Ironically, that makes it easier to not feel so much.
I have been doing an ultra slow fade and allowing the train to stop at the station at times.
I determine the times. Strategically. Most bang for my buck times.
Recently a family here had a house fire. I was the thrid or fourth one to arrive after it became known. I brought an envelope of cash. Not a stupendous amount but what I thought would help. As the house where they were temporarily staying filled with JWs I quietly moved my way (through hellos and hugs etc) out to my car to leave.
One of the more mouthy of the corrupt 3 elders in our Hall was standing nearby. He said "you dont want to attend meetings but your always showing up to be "helpful".
I ignored that and opened my car...
then he pushed his luck to far and said " you think your some type of Robin Hood"
to which I replied, "then does that would make you the sheriff of Nottingham"?
And I drove off.
Gotta love those moments when they just fall in your lap like that.
My point is there is now one right way to do this. You determine your course and try your best not to make emotional decisions but strategic ones instead.
Be kind. Be smart. Do it your way.
 +4 / -0
stan livedeath
stan livedeath 14 hours ago

My wife " how do you feel about the truth ?"
Me " shut your gob. Where's my dinner ?"
 +1 / -0
LongHairGal
LongHairGal 13 hours ago

JWROGUE:
You mentioned there are many unhappy JWs and maybe some "hints" here and there are going to get them thinking. Well, personally, I doubt it.
Comments won't budge the JWs already there. The few I know wouldn't leave no matter how miserable they are, and I have no desire to drag them out since it brings them some comfort. They just know I'M OUT because I have issues and I leave it at that. Certain JWs give me the cold shoulder if I see them in a store. This is a joke, since I was shunned when I was an active JW. After fifteen years of "fading", who cares?
Any suspicious comments you make will only put YOU in the spotlight and will not make anyone else budge.
Hopefully, some posters here who are born-ins with similar circumstances as yourself can give you some advice.
I wish you luck finding a way through this!
 
JW_Rogue
JW_Rogue 8 hours ago

Small victory there, until you break down the actual conversation. You're using JW speak (the truth) when you talk to her. I get what you're doing, but you're not helping the situation in the long term. Instead of saying 'the truth', try 'the religion' or 'the corporation' and see how that goes.
She uses the term "the truth", I don't refer to it at all, I don't correct her because that would be a dead give away. I'm letting my actions speak for me as she said.
I don`t mean to sound cynical , do I get the impression there may be a financial loss in your walking away from your family and this religion ?
There is the very real possibility of divorce and selling our home. Which could result in a battle over who deserves what and why. We could both probably come out okay because our home has doubled in value since we bought it but it wouldn't be right. Don't think I could go through that.
Perhaps in your casual comments you could stress the facts that the early Christian congregation seemed to think that welfare within the community was a priority (widows and orphans), The GB couldn't care a fig about the welfare of their followers even for the suffering of victims of sexual abuse
Could be an issue that would reach her if she looked at it objectively. WT maintains that they do help people it just always happens to be "somewhere else" where the efforts are taking place.
How about continuing to take it slowly, keep them on your side but sharing things you have learned which get the family to start thinking for themselves? Make some allies in your mild scepticism, preferably including your wife.
This is my plan for now. My wife was watching the Scientology special on ABC and when it got to one part she said "Oh, that's kind of like us" all I did was give her an odd facial expression like I had never thought of that before.
 
JW_Rogue
JW_Rogue 8 hours ago
Long Hair Girl - Maybe it's just because I'm mentally out but lately I just see everyone going through the motions. There is no excitement or encouragement at the meetings people are just going through it for the social aspect. Everything in the new meeting format is scripted, the videos are manipulative, the new demos are dry and boring. I see people who know something is off but just don't want to admit it.
 

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Topic Summary
is it possible to have an effect from the inside?
with well thought comments that reveal more of the history of the organization?
the next book we study will be "god's kingdom rules!



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The new kids video is going viral, and it angered the Elf-Mom
by Captain Schmideo2 10 hours ago 5 Replies latest 8 hours ago   jw friends
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Captain Schmideo2
Captain Schmideo2 10 hours ago

Saw this in my FB feed today...



 +4 / -0
Captain Schmideo2
Captain Schmideo2 10 hours ago

FYI, Wendy Pini is the artist behind the incredible "Elf-Quest" series, and also created "Masque of the Red Death" which features gay characters.
 +2 / -0
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 10 hours ago

Well, JWs are known for being the paradise "nazis."
"You are gay? No paradise for you!"
 +6 / -0
zeb
zeb 8 hours ago
so the idea is to dump a crushing burden on little kids because of the way the adults in their lives live?
 +3 / -0
Barrold Bonds
Barrold Bonds 8 hours ago
gaystarnews.com is the best name ever for a website
 
LisaRose
LisaRose 8 hours ago

They really advised children to tell their classmates with gay parents they will die at Armageddon? OMG, that is wrong on so many levels. It's just cruel to tell a child their parents will be put to death by God, what is the child going to do with that information, even if it were true? It could even could be classified as hate speech and result in repercussions for the child from the school. It shows a complete lack of sensitivity to the beliefs and feelings of others. Would JW parents want their children's conservative Christian classmates to tell them they will go to hell for not being saved?
Unbelievable.
 +5 / -0

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Quotes JWs Don't Like...
by JW_Rogue 7 hours ago 5 Replies latest an hour ago   jw experiences
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JW_Rogue
JW_Rogue 7 hours ago

"You Miss 100% Of The Shots You Don't Take"
"You Always Regret The Things You Didn't Do More Than The Things You Did"
"Think For Yourself, Question Authority"
"Every Man Dies But Not Every Man Truly Lives"
"Not Everyone Who Wanders Is Lost"
 +1 / -0
LevelThePlayingField
LevelThePlayingField 6 hours ago

Go with your gut.
Trust your heart.
 +1 / -0
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 6 hours ago

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead."
Thomas Paine
 
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 6 hours ago

"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness."
Alejandro Jodorowski
 +3 / -0
eyeuse2badub
eyeuse2badub 6 hours ago

"I'd rather have questions that can't be answered-------than answers that can't be questioned"!
just saying!
eyeuse2badub
 +3 / -0
John Free
John Free an hour ago

'Stay Alive till 75'
'The bitterest truth is better than the sweetest lie' -men in black.
I live Feynman's quote above about answers too...
 

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Posting on this board is feeling like...
by Gorbatchov 3 hours ago 0 Replies latest 3 hours ago   jw friends
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Gorbatchov
Gorbatchov 3 hours ago

With the continuous stream of information about selling buildings in Brooklyn for hundreds of millions of dollars,
posting here on the board, is like cursing against a slot machine!!!
Gorby
 +1 / -0

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Jehovah's Witnesses
Discuss anything Jehovah Witness, JW.org or WatchTower society related
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Gorbatchov
Posting on this board is feeling like...
by Gorbatchov in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 3 hours ago
with the continuous stream of information about selling buildings in brooklyn for hundreds of millions of dollars, .

posting here on the board, is like cursing against a slot machine!!!.

gorby.

JW_Rogue
5
Quotes JWs Don't Like...
by JW_Rogue in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 7 hours ago
"you miss 100% of the shots you don't take".

"you always regret the things you didn't do more than the things you did".

"think for yourself, question authority".

sparrowdown
eyeuse2badub
John Free
an hour ago
Captain Schmideo2
5
The new kids video is going viral, and it angered the Elf-Mom
by Captain Schmideo2 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 10 hours ago
saw this in my fb feed today... .

zeb
Barrold Bonds
LisaRose
8 hours ago
Gorbatchov
8
Official Watchtower representative at Government / Religion meeting in Austria
by Gorbatchov in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
part 3 of maybe not so relevant information, but nice to know and opening my eyes during the past years, were this pictures of an official watchtower representative attending a meeting between the austrian government and the country's main religions.

i don't know who the representative is, no names, no face, i cut and past it from some website.

.

Room 215
NVR2L8
steve2
15 hours ago
JW_Rogue
38
Waking People Up With Well Thought Out Comments
by JW_Rogue in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 a day ago
is it possible to have an effect from the inside?

with well thought comments that reveal more of the history of the organization?

the next book we study will be "god's kingdom rules!

LongHairGal
JW_Rogue
JW_Rogue
8 hours ago
Captain Schmideo2
1
Cult Think-How to deflate good news
by Captain Schmideo2 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
me:"my son is going to south korea to teach english.

he'll get to live in another country, expand his horizons, and live comfortably while he is there!

"deeply devout jw brother-in-law:"oh, it's really bad in south korea.

WingCommander
20 hours ago
Gorbatchov
2
Watchtower delegation present at Austria government meeting with religion leaders
by Gorbatchov in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
maybe not relevant at all, another picture from my deep storage archive, with on it an official austria watchtower delegation meeting with government and religion leaders of that country.. .

wifibandit
wannaexit
a day ago
purrpurr
47
Were you beaten as a child?
by purrpurr in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 a day ago
i've been confronting my mother with her dubious parenting skills (abuse) of me as a child.

particularly the beatings i would get with the wooden spoon.

not a light smack but hitting me as hard as she could for as long as she could.

Dunedain
purrpurr
Nathan Natas
32 minutes ago
wasone
18
A flash from the past
by wasone in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
this is a photo of the bethel repair shop taken in 1976. anyone recognize any of these lads from 40 years ago.

i know it's a long shot, but was wondering how many were still in after all these years.

i remember a few of them.

wasone
berrygerry
WingCommander
19 hours ago
ttdtt
161
New ANTI-GAY video for Kids on jw.org
by ttdtt in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 2 days ago https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/one-man-one-woman-marriage/.

disgusting!.

Lieu
RobertT18
snugglebunny
an hour ago
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