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Superstar Prince Pronounced Dead: World in Shock Over Passing of Celebrity Jehovah’s Witness
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Posted on April 21, 2016
 
April 22nd, 2016
Seldom does the death of one individual captivate the news so completely as when a superbly talented, musically gifted, and internationally beloved icon such as Prince loses his life. What would be a routine day of reporting of the U.S. Presidential race, international conflicts, and earthquake relief work has become a media spectacle, cornering all of the major news outlets including CNN and BBC.
For Jehovah’s Witnesses, the death of Prince comes with a mixed bag of emotions due to the controversial and mysterious nature of the converted JW pop star. While many Witnesses embrace the fact that such a gifted individual would accept their fundamentalist faith, other Witnesses despise his behavior and view his entire body of work as evidence of Satan’s influence in the entertainment industry.
This polarization of attitudes towards the few Jehovah’s Witnesses who have achieved worldwide fame reveals that the Watchtower organization is not really quite sure what to make of these individuals. While Scientology openly embraces and heaps accolades on its well-known celebrities like Tom Cruise and John Travolta, Jehovah’s Witnesses take a more subdued approach to fame, preferring to name-drop B-rated scientists who support creationism.
larrygrahamawake
February 22nd 1989 Awake! Magazine

There are some exceptions to this, most notably Watchtower’s 1989 life story of Larry Graham, the
 man responsible for Prince’s conversion to the JW religion. Larry Graham’s life journey in becoming one of Jehovah’s Witnesses was featured in the February 22nd 1989 issue of the Awake! magazine, published by the Watchtower organization.
While Witness publications almost never feature persons of fame, Larry Graham was an exception to this policy, primarily due to his extraordinary devotion to the faith, and the fact that he became a full-time “pioneer” minister for Jehovah’s Witnesses as well as an elder in the congregation. As a result of his evangelical nature, coupled with his connection to many prominent musicians, he was able to get the attention of Prince Rogers Nelson, or as we know him, Prince.
larrygrahamfamily
Larry Graham and Family at the Kingdom Hall

By the year 2001, Prince had accepted the faith of his close friend Graham, replacing his prior beliefs which included membership in the Seventh Day Adventist church. As Graham’s spiritual protegé, he publicly cast off the celebration of birthdays, voting, and embraced Jehovah’s Witnesses’ bizarre ban on life-saving blood transfusions. He even accompanied Graham in the public ministry, knocking on doors, counting his time. But make no mistake, Prince was not about to throw away the only thing which made Prince Prince, his explosive imagination, creativity and genius musical talent which could not be contained inside the stagnant four walls of a Kingdom Hall.
His career continued, mildly subdued by the religion, but never irreversibly stifled by the rigid rules of Watchtower’s invasive Governing Body. And this was in fact the reason Prince was such a controversial figure among Jehovah’s Witnesses. Just as with one-time Jehovah’s Witness Michael Jackson, the musical products of Prince divided Witnesses into two camps: one which admired his music and bragged about his affiliation with the organization, and the other which labeled him as a despicable hypocrite whose sexually permissive appearance and lyrics disgraced the holy and conservative beliefs of the JW organization.
By the time Prince had become a Witness, Michael Jackson had already left the religion, but not before being coerced into a public apology for his music video Thriller, which the Awake! magazine connected with spiritism. In the May 1984 Awake! publication, Jackson was quoted as saying:

“I would never do it again”.
While Jackson died in complete disgrace among Witnesses as a disassociated member, Prince somehow managed to avoid judicial punishment and ostracism for his questionable lifestyle, as his music, associates, and actions were the polar opposite of the ultra-conservative JW beliefs.
Prince died at a terribly young age. Speculations as to the cause of his death are spreading like gangrene, and are useless in the face of the reality that we have lost yet another entertainment genius, and we won’t get him back. The intersection of his life with that of the Jehovah’s Witness religion raises many questions which might not be answered for quite some time. Until then, we can only comment on what we know, and what Prince said.
For a brilliant and thoughtful review of the passing of Prince Rogers Nelson, please view the following video produced by Lloyd Evans, senior editor for JW Survey:



 
John Redwood


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News Bulletin: Secret Watchtower documents once again demanded in new US court case. →
 
255 Responses to Superstar Prince Pronounced Dead: World in Shock Over Passing of Celebrity Jehovah’s Witness


Newer Comments →
 
 AARON says:

 April 21, 2016 at 10:48 pm
 
I am wondering if there’ll a funeral talk for Prince.
Reply
 
 
 John Walsh says:

 April 21, 2016 at 11:19 pm
 
I think the fact that Prince became a J-Dub shows that like the rest of us, he is vulnerable to indoctrination and propaganda when he was feeling somewhat lost in life, and who should come along, but a friend and fellow artist, so immediately his friendship strengthens, and to top it off a new way of life and direction and membership to a club, a religious club.
 He was fortunate in that he was not indoctrinated from birth as many were/are, and that shows in his life, where he was never going to allow it to take over his life completely, to the contrary he somewhat kept it in it’s place and continued with his form of art, maintaining his mate-ship at the same time.
 Outside of his art, I saw a vulnerable young man who lost his Dad and needing some direction and guidance from someone older.
 RIP Prince.
Reply
 
 Hip hip hooray I'm an ex says:

 April 22, 2016 at 5:02 am
 
I think a point people miss or gloss over is the fact he converted from Seventh Day Adventism to Jehovah’s Witnesses. Looking at the history of the Borg, Russell was heavily influenced by the Adventists, to put it mildly.
 When I was researching things after leaving, it seems to me the writing committee is still looking to the Adventists for explaining certain doctrine, such as the Flood.
 If that’s the case, I can see why Prince wouldn’t see a radical difference between the two, but would consider it a natural awakening.
Reply
 
 Chuck Baby says:

 April 24, 2016 at 2:13 am
 
Hello, I’m always saddened but anybody’s death, so, it is with ‘prince’. I’m here in Australia. Your’e comments about ‘prince’ and Jehovah’s Witnesses, to me betray that you have a bitter, cold & different agenda & motive. You have babbled some nonsense, in accord with you’re lack of ‘ common sense’ and lack of real loving concern for others. But, that is your opinion, and this is mine.
Cheerio from Chuck Baby in Australia
 (Jazz player/ 4 string electric Bass guitar).
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Jaak says:

 April 21, 2016 at 11:51 pm
 
As a Mather of fact, blood kills people, I know many many persons who survived an operation without blood. And I know many persons who did get blood and they died under surgery!
Well that is the story all witnesses tell me.
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 April 22, 2016 at 6:44 am
 
“Well that is the story all witnesses tell me.”
Have you spoken to any medical professionals about this or done your own research?
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 April 22, 2016 at 5:18 pm
 
Jaak. I know plenty of people who have survived without an operation that some doctors said was needed.I know some people who have died also from having operations. That doesn’t mean blood transfusions kill does it? It only means SOME peole got away without having one that is all. Look at how many have survived by having a needed blood transfusion. If you look at the odds so many more people will survive with a blood transfusion than without one.I knew a JW family who told me their uncle in the 1960’s refused a coranory transplant and went blind bc the WT said body transplants were equal to cannibalism. So he was blind the rest of his life. Then the WT changed their view and said ooops! We were wrong. Go ahead and get your transplants. He was left with extreme deprsiion and the only thing they could say is oh well, we tried to do the right thing and he will have perfect vision in the New World! Can you believe that?
Reply
 
 Charles Nketsiah says:

 April 23, 2016 at 9:21 am
 
HAHAHAHA
Reply
 
 
 
 Mike B says:

 April 22, 2016 at 7:39 pm
 
Well, the bulk of surgery is performed without the need for blood so it’s really not a surprise that ‘many, many’ people can tell you they had surgery without it.
 When the medical profession deem the risk associated with blood is less than that of refusing, you have less anecdotes to hear since the surviving patients are far fewer.
Reply
 
 
 
 Peter van der Brink says:

 April 21, 2016 at 11:57 pm
 
Prince was not indoctrinated and spoiled by youth as the most JWs and ex-JWs are. He was fortunate and did what he want.He died with an overdosis of drugs, according Dutch newsmagazines. Personally have no any feelings and emotions by this guy and his 50cm high “Antony Morris III”shoes….
Reply
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 April 22, 2016 at 12:37 am
 
I never knew what to make of Prince’s conversion and I still don’t know what to make of it. It seems to me that this initial hook of this religion does genuinely tap into a need of some very talented folk. Prince included. I think it maybe that deep fear of death which this religion dangles the promise of never dying to its victims. The problem is that unless you get fully involved the promise of paradise eventually evaporates and people go back to doing what they are best at. So for Prince that would be his creative genius. Interestingly these uberrock stars with such influence on the minds of many generations span do not contribute to a mass conversion of their loyal fans in fact generally the fans forgive them their whacky beliefs and put it down to a quirky diversion. I think it is interesting he had his roots in 7Dadv yet another odd breakaway religion with similar doctrines to jws.The man will be missed and his music will inspire a new generation and spark the creative genius in others but his religion will not, that will be consigned to the bin of obscurity because his genius shone through in spite of his religion not because of it. Ruthlee
Reply
 
 Blushing ex elder says:

 April 22, 2016 at 2:56 am
 
I too was always confused by the lifestyles of so called celebrity JW’s. What does god really demand of those who would be acceptable to him, according to the GB? Try wearing Prince style clothes to your next meeting and see how quickly you are hauled into the back room for a quiet little ‘tight pants’ chat. It seems that artists of the level of this man have great imagination, a willingness to mentally explore different propositions and ‘the truth’ can, on initial examination, capture the mind or provide a form of solace. No one knows for sure what he thought or why, but there appears little doubt that he was treated differently from how others would be viewed if they suddenly adopted his ‘acceptable’ lifestyle as a JW. A brilliant musician and performer and a great loss to the world of entertainment.
Reply
 
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 April 22, 2016 at 12:40 am
 
P.S. My husband volunteers to do the funeral talk. Now that will be a talk I hope they televise on the monthly broadcast!!!! Ruthlee
Reply
 
 Emily says:

 April 23, 2016 at 9:36 am
 
Really? Now Sister princess dad shouldn’t be any different than any other deaths that happened. It is sad that he is an artist but God’s people are equal We Are All God’s Children and we should be treated as equal. Just because he is famous and makes a lot of money makes you no different than anyone who is poor. As long as those who put Kingdom interest first will be honored by God.
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 April 24, 2016 at 12:03 pm
 
Emily My comment was ironic as those who know me . ruthlee
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Freed Mason says:

 April 22, 2016 at 2:16 am
 
A Legend that transcended the limiting world view of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society and other man made interventions, RIP Prince Rogers Nelson.
Reply
 
 
 Fooledmeonce says:

 April 22, 2016 at 4:13 am
 
Prince described his learning ‘The Truth’ like the character Neo, in The Matrix. Neo takes a pill and wakes up to the fact that he was living inside of a computer program.
 The Jehovah’s Witnesses spin a pretty good story too and it hooked all of us reading this website, at one time. Just like any religion or cult, there are answers given to some deep questions and it seems to make sense in some weird way.
 The real ‘beauty’ to the Jehovah’s Witness-story is that it changes over time! The Watchtower will rewrite their history and cover over any embarrassing episodes.
 Prince trusted his friend, Larry Graham, most of all. I’m sure that everyone who got sucked into our own ‘JW-Matrix’ had a trusted friend or relative that we followed blindly. Now with anyone being able to quickly search sites like this, and to talk with ex members, it is going to be very hard to suck anyone else into the Governing Body’s little Matrix of lies!
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 April 22, 2016 at 6:31 pm
 
Foldmeonce. In the late 1980’s I was going to do some “missionary” work in the Bahamas with some local JW’s in the San Fransisco area. Larry Graham was part of the group. He came to my house and was a very nice guy. He was a real guy and we were all excited about our trip.Then the group leader approached us all and said the WT Society did not approve our trip and it was not an “AUTHORIZED” Wt approved group and squashed us! This was after we had all purchased our tickets and rental etc. Everyone was bummed and SO DISAPPOINTED. I did get my airfare $$ back. I am not sure If Larry GRaham is still a devoted JW or if he is having an awakening or not.
 I am not a Big Prince fan but it seems a lot of people like his music.
Reply
 
 Garrett says:

 April 22, 2016 at 8:37 pm
 
Larry is still a very active witness. He and Tina are wonderful people and are friends with my mother: I have nothing but good to say about this man.
 What a sad thing it is that so many quality people are duped into this cult . That is precisely why it must fall.
 Garrett
 Minneapolis
Reply
 
 
 
 Will says:

 April 23, 2016 at 6:09 am
 
I wonder how many witnesses were “stumbled” because he referenced a rate R movie? Also, I wonder if he was counseled about referring himself to that character instead of a biblical character.
Reply
 
 
 
 Nemorino says:

 April 22, 2016 at 5:52 am
 
Truly sad; he wasa supremely talented yet was to all appearances genuinely kind, gentle soul.
I wonder what, if anything, JW Broadcast will make of this story.
Reply
 
 
 Tara says:

 April 22, 2016 at 5:56 am
 
This am my fb page is full of tributes to Prince and then there are the witness ones – ‘See you in paradise brother Prince’, ‘Brother Prince makes it into paradise….’. Makes me want to puke.
Will the GB be rubbing their hands hoping for a hand out? Did brother Prince – whom we all respected and loved, leave us his dosh?
Sorry. I am sad at his death but the WT attitude makes me want to vomit. Amazing how many JW’s are suddenly ‘into’ his music.
RIP Prince
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 April 22, 2016 at 6:42 pm
 
Tara. Look at this Site that says the WT may inherit Princes $300 Million dollars? Will they take money from someone who made it promoting sexual immorality, transgender life styles, Gay life style and
 most all his songs were based on SEX , drugs and Rock and roll. We know the WT owns stock in Boeing and other companies that produce military weapons and other stocks that produce things they preach against. Look at this Article and see if they have their hand out?
 yes, they will take the immoral money.http://dailym.ai/1VpGXOg
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 April 22, 2016 at 8:38 pm
 
I have no doubt they will make it work for themselves. I am sure they are rubbing their hands together right now and getting their lawyers to work out how they can twist it so they come out on top. Shame on them. Someone posted, not too long back the shares they had bequeathed to them by a sister… I cannot remember her name. Made interesting reading. No they won’t think twice about excepting anything coming from the estate of Prince.
Reply
 
 
 Tara says:

 April 22, 2016 at 8:52 pm
 
Henrietta Riley trust! that’s the one I was thinking of. Check out what the WT has used Bonds, Stocks and Shares for. They won’t think twice about money from Prince.
Reply
 
 
 Winston Smith says:

 April 23, 2016 at 5:31 am
 
The article indicates that the Watchtower could inherit Prince’s music rights. I hadn’t thought of that. What a shame it would be if they just sat on all his “worldly” music and did not allow it to be made public. But of course if there is money to be made from it they probably won’t have a problem letting it be published.
WS
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 April 23, 2016 at 6:04 am
 
Unless they decided that it was satanic and burnt the lot. I think
 Prince would have thought of that. He knew the value of his work unless he was prepared to let it be destroyed, after all he would know the old adage, ‘you can’t take it with you’.
Reply
 
 
 Michele says:

 April 24, 2016 at 12:18 pm
 
According to Kevin Smith’s YouTube video on Prince, he has 50 or so original music videos/songs unreleased in his vault. Maybe Watchtower will inherit and become a record label too. Hey why not. They already have their television studio.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Emily says:

 April 23, 2016 at 9:43 am
 
You sound like a very angry person I feel very sorry for you it doesn’t matter what someone chooses as their religion its what they do in life. Prince does not know you nor do you know any celebrity probably. But that being said you are allowed to live your life the way you want and so should other people just show some respect. When the day comes when it matters the truth will be known you will not be puking then you will be surprised beyond your wildest dream.
Reply
 
 Winston Smith says:

 April 23, 2016 at 10:08 am
 
@Emily
 Not sure who your comments were directed at. As far as being angry, I have found that I am able to have a much calmer and easy going disposition since leaving the JW cult. I don’t think anyone here in this chain of posts is voicing any kind of anger or hatefulness. From experience we all just know what the JW cult is capable of and we are speculating how they may use this man’s fame and fortune to their own ends and out of harmony with the type of person he was.
WS
Reply
 
 Darnell says:

 April 27, 2016 at 6:43 am
 
JW haters are so petty and weak. Stop worrying about what they will or won’t accept from THEIR BROTHER who CHOSE THEM, and focus on your own bitter little lives!
Reply
 
 
 
 Tara says:

 April 23, 2016 at 10:31 am
 
No Emily. If you mean me, I’m not angry and I am actually related to some very famous people. That being said I just find it very disturbing that so many witnesses are jumping on the bandwagon. My fb page has been inundated with brothers and sisters saying things like ‘dear brother prince has made it into the new system… he is in paradise’. No one knows who will be in the new system so no one has the right to say that. For all we know Lemmie will be there because he had a good heart. So again, no, I’m not angry in fact, I am less stressed and anxious since I stopped attending meetings.
Reply
 
 Tracey says:

 April 23, 2016 at 12:23 pm
 
I agree. Who are u all to be judging Prince or even the faith of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. One day very soon the TRUTH will be revealed. I long for that day. And no one has made it to paradise yet as paradise is yet to come. All our loved ones are asleep in death awaiting a resurrection.
Reply
 
 Outandabout says:

 April 23, 2016 at 9:48 pm
 
ah, yes, Tracey….the resurrection. Is that the one where you wake up in a theme park patting lions, cuddling panda’s, swimming with toothless sharks, seeing the snakes lying there with a bale of hay inside them and maybe a crocodile coming up on the river bank, flipping on it’s side, grabbing a blade of grass and giving it the death roll? You don’t age or marry anymore so there won’t be any babies, I guess. Isn’t having children and raising them to be decent people the absolute purpose of being us? Without that, what have we got?
 We’re all disgusted when in the news we read of yet another estranged man murdering his wife or partner and no doubt it gets JW’s going “tsk tsk, another sign!” But what is that estranged man actually saying by committing such an act? He’s saying, “well if you don’t love me then I will kill you” Why is it that when a man does that once it’s soooooo terrible, but absolutely so correct and just when the Jehovah thug does it 7 billion times? See how the cult has disconnected you from your conscience? That’s how cults work and how they get you to accept as gospel anything they wish to. You’re under their spell. Good luck with your choice.
 You do realise that the paradise won’t start to come about until the U.N. attacks the churches. The Queen is more likely to come out as being gay before that happens. Part of the U.N. charter is to protect human rights and that includes the right to worship whoever they wish. Not bad for a ‘worldly’ organisation, aye?

 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 24, 2016 at 9:38 am
 
@Tracey:
“All our loved ones are asleep in death awaiting a resurrection.”
Persons are taught to believe in a resurrection because Jesus Christ showed that this was possible when he died and was resurrected from the dead.
 What historical proof do you have that Jesus Christ was in fact resurrected from the dead?

 
 
 
 
 Tracey says:

 April 23, 2016 at 12:20 pm
 
I agree. Who are u all to be judging Prince or even the faith of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. One day very soon the TRUTH will be revealed. I long for that day.
Reply
 
 Tracey says:

 April 24, 2016 at 2:05 am
 
Let’s talk again when these things start taking place.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Winston Smith says:

 April 22, 2016 at 6:11 am
 
At this point there is no cause of death known. I am not suggesting anything of the kind, but if it did turn out that the cause was drug related or some other similar issue, I wonder if the Watchtower will try to distance themselves from Prince and say he wasn’t really an active member. This would be similar to what they said about Michael Jackson around the time of the Thriller Video.
WS
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 April 22, 2016 at 7:09 am
 
Of course they will distance themselves. Unless there is a big wad of money in it for them. We won’t find out which way they will turn until after the will is read. The autopsy is set for today…. if next week they announce it was a tragic illness then they will except any handouts ASAP but if next week they say it was down to drugs or something else then they will have to be careful how they go about excepting donations. We will see the hypocrisy, don’t you worry about it.
Reply
 
 
 Free Thinker says:

 April 22, 2016 at 7:55 am
 
We’ll take his cash, but him we bash – in other words: Pecunia non olet.
Reply
 
 
 Will says:

 April 22, 2016 at 12:03 pm
 
The rumor is that he was addicted to pain killers. WT will distance themselves from this if it’s true. He was a true genius. His music was part of my teenage years and his death is devastating. Like someone mentioned before, Prince had daddy issues and that’s what attracted him to the religion. That was mine. Also, Prince lost a child and tragedy opens you up to cults. I’m sure the resurrection “hope” was dangled before him.
Reply
 
 Gameisover says:

 April 23, 2016 at 8:25 pm
 
I lost a child. The promise I would see her,
 In the flesh, very soon, because the end was imminent, the twisted scriptures proving this, is the only reason I embraced this cult. I truly believed it. For nearly 50 years.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Erik says:

 April 22, 2016 at 6:23 am
 
Prince’s only child died as a baby, how heart-breaking. Great tragedies can cause us to yearn for more satisfying answers.
Reply
 
 SDL says:

 April 22, 2016 at 6:44 pm
 
Yes. And the lucrative business of religion ‘preys’ upon such vulnerabilities.
Reply
 
 
 
 nullandvoidboy says:

 April 22, 2016 at 6:55 am
 
The sad thing….or good thing for Princes sake, is that he led a totally insulated life from the garbage that’e espoused at a kingdom hall….he had a mentor…and that was it….could you imagine going to the hall, dressed as he would….you think you’d get a way with that? So he never was marginalized, or felt disenfranchised….he did not really experience being a jw….totally insulated from the day to day crap
Reply
 
 idkwhattocallmyself says:

 April 22, 2016 at 9:03 am
 
Actually he did go to the king-dumb hall, a bit toned down, but I remember him wearing a fancy white suit, with tight pants and he definitely wore platform shoes. He was famous so he definitely got special treatment. I’m sure they wanted his donations. He attended my old congregation back in the early 2000’s as well as Chanhassen, the closest one to Paisley Park. No elder in either of those halls would have the cajones to council Prince on his dress and grooming…
Reply
 
 
 Ready 4 to Fade says:

 April 22, 2016 at 12:12 pm
 
There were multiple stories about him touring Brooklyn Bethel in the late 90’s early 2000’s as well.
Reply
 
 
 
 peggy says:

 April 22, 2016 at 7:17 am
 
I am sorry to hear about Prince as I was a big fan of his music. As a kid raised by JW parents, I always got a lecture about Satan’s worldly debased music. Music that leads one away from high moral standards. I never listened to their rants and kept my music. And if I were a talented musician and wanted to be a rock star and make $$$ and have adoring fans, and wear sexy tight clothes, well, my parents and local elders would have kicked me to the curb. How did he manage it? He never seemed the picture of a Watchtower JW. He was an exception. I guess.
Reply
 
 Darlene says:

 April 22, 2016 at 8:09 am
 
I’m sure he was an exception to the rules of the wt because of the monetary contributions he probably banked for them. Just like most of us, if that had been us in the norm, we would have been kicked out immediately.
Reply
 
 Michele says:

 April 24, 2016 at 12:25 pm
 
I was thinking the same thing.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Cherie says:

 April 22, 2016 at 7:49 am
 
I remember the Larry Graham article in the Awake! well. The funny thing about our society today is that when someone dies, s/he is automatically elevated up. Everyone gets caught up in the emotion because of all the attention. The witnesses are no different. However, we have to be careful when it comes to public figures and celebrities. We do not know them personally. Like my late mother used to say, “I’m always careful to say, ‘I like him/her as an actor or a singer,’ because we don’t know what they are like in real life.” Of course, we feel sad when a life is suddenly cut short. I appreciated the approach Lloyd took in his video.
Reply
 
 
 Erik says:

 April 22, 2016 at 7:54 am
 
we don’t see the video…?
Reply
 
 Erik says:

 April 22, 2016 at 8:33 am
 
ohp! now I do, sorry…
Reply
 
 
 
 Darlene says:

 April 22, 2016 at 8:06 am
 
I sure hope and pray that Prince didn’t have the wt org as his beneficiary!
Reply
 
 Roman Castañeda says:

 April 22, 2016 at 8:35 pm
 
That’s my concern too. The idea even came to me, that the watchtower poisoned him after he sign a petition for them to keep a certain percentage of his property’s worth. That way they could use that money to pay off the child abuse cases in silence and bring less attention to themselves from the media. Even the righteous find reasons to justify murdering someone.
Then again, I tend to over think
Reply
 
 
 
 Stephen Godfrey says:

 April 22, 2016 at 8:39 am
 
Anyone who was a JW from my generation (the birth of rock & roll) knows perfectly well that no “brother” could get away with dressing or presenting as Prince did. He would never have been accepted as a baptismal candidate. Any such “interested one” would be “marked” by the elders as someone the congregation needed to be wary of. Striving for a rock or pop music career would have triggered serious counseling. How Prince and the ridiculous Jackson clan got away with being quite literally beyond “worldly” are mind-boggling examples of Watchtower hypocrisy.
Reply
 
 Doc Obvious says:

 April 22, 2016 at 11:17 am
 
They had millions of dollars and can sue the Watchtower for everything they have if Watchtower got out of hand. Much different situation, if you only make between 10 and 15 USD per hour. In addition, they were a celebrity and had a lot of pull from Presidents and other governmental authorities. Watchtower could not rock the boat on these types.
Reply
 
 
 
 Searcher says:

 April 22, 2016 at 9:31 am
 
Prince was like Mozart. He was a genius of music. From what I gather, he seemed to be a very gentle and sensitive person. Yeah, he was different in many ways. Most true genius artists are cut of such a cloth and that’s a good thing. Being a radically different personality usually helps creativity and genius. I really liked his music and style. He’ll be missed by many.
Reply
 
 
 Candlestick says:

 April 22, 2016 at 9:33 am
 
I was talking to my JW mom on the phone last night. Of course, this came up. I’m like ‘mom, did you know that Prince was a JW?’ — and she quickly went ‘ahhh.. i don’t really know about that; not with his lifestyle. Only Jehovah really knows.’ — yeah, special treatment indeed. Noone else gets that ‘benefit of the doubt’. They accept you as a faithful sheep that does everything they say, or you’re out. RIP, Prince.
Reply
 
 
 Cherie says:

 April 22, 2016 at 9:42 am
 
When I was in the org during the late ’80s, I remember a lot of witnesses tuning out his music because their “bible trained consciences” would not allow them to listen to sexy lyrics. They would change the radio channel if one of his songs came on. I also knew sisters who would not take aerobics classes at the community center because there was a chance they might play Prince or Michael Jackson’s songs.
Reply
 
 Will says:

 April 23, 2016 at 5:55 am
 
I remember a “brother” changing the radio station when George Michael’s “Too Funky” came on and was thinking to my self, “Hey, I like that song. Oh well, I have the song and remixes at home. I’ll listen to it later.”
Reply
 
 
 
 Twmack says:

 April 22, 2016 at 10:27 am
 
I don’t know anything about his music. Not my generation.
 But I do know about arthritis, it’s excruciatingly painful.
I understand Prince needed two hip replacements but was
 having a problem getting the operation performed without
 blood .
Just a few days ago he was taken to hospital and was given
 an injection which was an antidote for opiate overdose.
Purely speculation on my part but the opiates could have
 been taken to dull arthritis pain. Any one whose afflicted
 by this disease knows there’s hardly anything you wouldn’t
 take to get relief.
I feel sorry for him, as I do for anyone whose mind gets messed
 up, by being drawn into the jw snake pit.
Reply
 
 
 Doc Obvious says:

 April 22, 2016 at 11:10 am
 
Prince did wear tight fitting pants. Maybe Anthony Morris III sent out his SS guards to monitor the situation. Prince could not take much more of this and found himself in a catch-22. This could have been the last straw. We will wait and see when the autopsy report comes back.
Reply
 
 
 Pascal says:

 April 22, 2016 at 12:05 pm
 
I just read from the daily mail. “Speculation suggests Prince’s money – and huge estate – could now be left to the Jehovah’s Witnesses church he attended for nearly 15 years.
 Kingdom Hall in Chanhassen – hidden behind a line of trees less than half a mile from the Prince’s property – is said to be where the singer went to after converting to the faith in 2001.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3553720/Unmarried-no-children-Jehovah-s-Witnesses-church-Prince-s-family-inherit-300m-fortune-sprawling-Minnesota-mansion-unreleased-music-century.html#ixzz46aFX2TBB
Reply
 
 Pascal says:

 April 22, 2016 at 12:09 pm
 
Most likely, Prince’s death is going to turn into a potential ‘windfall’ for the Watchtower. Please, does any one know if Prince did leave a will?
Reply
 
 
 Join-Stay25Yrs-Leave says:

 April 26, 2016 at 2:35 am
 
“Speculation” from the UK about Estate Law in the USA. How completely silly. Right on the level of the National Enquirer.
Minnesota Intesticy Laws are clear and specific. So far, no will has been produced and all sources say Prince had no will. If that is the case then his entire estate will go to his sister. There in no legal basis (other than a valid will) to challenge of this. By all accounts she is his only legal heir.
Even if someone else, like the WT or his ex-wife produce a will, it will have to go through probate court first. The validity of such a will could be challenged by his sister, depending on circumstances. It would certainly be worth her while to do so.
To all the foolish UK “reporters”: In the USA, churches do not inherit monies from the estates of members who die intestate.
Reply
 
 
 
 ian york says:

 April 22, 2016 at 2:04 pm
 
I recall a stalwart pioneer telling me how he threw out his Abba collection following a district convention talk on ‘worldly’ music. By non-JW standards Prince was risqué, so the seeming absence of condemnation when he was alive and performing his catalogue, and the posts of condolences by JWs is nauseating. If the GB have no qualms about putting millions of dollars in the financial cesspits that are hedge funds, I can’t see them turning their noses up at Prince’s will, if he has left any to them, and it’s not contested by family members.
Reply
 
 
 John Merriman says:

 April 22, 2016 at 2:42 pm
 
Sorry folks if the truth be known….basically he was a hypocrite like a all mega star and run of the mill Jehovah’s Witnesses. Loved the “world” and all it had to offer. End of story!
Reply
 
 Darlene says:

 April 23, 2016 at 8:19 pm
 
I agree!
Reply
 
 
 
 CaptainmyCaptain says:

 April 22, 2016 at 3:37 pm
 
Surely if his estate is left to the Organization and his parents, it will have been a blessing from above. Just like sand from a hurricane. There has got to be a way they will spin it. It was meant to be.
And I have to agree with some of the first posts on this article about the similarities between the 7th Day Adventists and JW’s. I was in Savannah, Georgia, USA, and walking around a historic area, and there was a huge cathedral, and right out in front, under the words Seventh Day Adventist was the word JEHOVAH, engraved in the marble. So there are a lot of similarities between the two beliefs.
Reply
 
 H.K. Fauskanger says:

 April 23, 2016 at 3:50 am
 
Ellen White, the great Seventh-Day Adventist prophetess, actually uses the name Jehovah quite frequently in her writings. Also, her magnum opus “The Great Controversy” is written from pretty much the same perspective as much of Watchtower literature: All of history is a grand experiment tolerated by God, Satan being allowed to rule for a while, so that it will become evident to all righteous people how detestable sin is. After Satan’s rule has been shown to be a failure, God will judge the world. The unsaved do not go to hell, but are simply annihilated.
Sounds familiar?
When I read “The Great Controversy”, it struck me that there were entire chapters that could — except for a few sentences — just as well come from a Watchtower book.
Nevertheless, Ellen White is sometimes condemned in Watchtower literature, mainly because her genitals had the wrong configuration for a leading religious figure. The ideological debt is rarely acknowledged, though Russell apparently did say that he learned much from the Adventists.
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 April 23, 2016 at 8:33 am
 
“The Great Controversy”………interesting magnum opus of Ellen G. White which has influenced WT doctrine.
According to the Bible Adam and Eve did not know right from wrong when they sinned, they did not know good from evil until AFTER they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It was only AFTER the two ate from the forbidden tree that they developed a moral sense yet in a huff God decided that he would let Satan rule in his stead for a while?
Why didn’t God allow Adam & Eve to die in the very day that they ate the forbidden fruit just like he promised so that they wouldn’t pass on sin to their descendants?
According to the bible God destroyed all the wicked persons during the flood of Noah’s day and left only the righteous. Couldn’t God have done similarly with Adam & Eve? Couldn’t he have put Adam & Eve to death and keep repeating the process until he found a human pair who would obey before allowing them to have children and sin to enter the world?
Couldn’t God have prevented evil from entering the earth in the first place in the case of Adam and Eve and still leave free will in tact? Sin entered the world because God chose to put the tree of the knowledge of good and bad where Adam and Eve, who at the time had no concept of good and evil, could access it. Had God chosen to put the tree out of Adam’s and Eve’s reach, no fruit eaten and thus sin does not enter, while leaving free will intact. God could also have chosen not to make that tree at all too. After all, being all-knowing, God would have known the choice Adam and Eve were going to make especially given the fact that they were lacking in moral sense and did not know how to distinguish between right and wrong, good and evil.
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 April 23, 2016 at 12:32 pm
 
So God had a few options from which he could choose in order to prevent sin from entering the world. Yet God chose to let sin in just so that there could be a “Great Controversy” so that Ellen G. White could write a magnum opus about it and the WT could derive it’s theology from White’s magnum opus. YAAY God!
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Michele says:

 April 22, 2016 at 4:16 pm
 
Iam so happy he found Jehovah! Love & prayers to his family & Friends
Reply
 
 John Merriman says:

 April 22, 2016 at 7:14 pm
 
Are you sure Jehovah did’nt find him? What a fine example of what a JW represents. Sets a standard for all witnesses who want to gain Jehovah’s approval. Sophie & Caleb take note.
Reply
 
 
 Emily says:

 April 23, 2016 at 4:33 pm
 
Amen
Reply
 
 
 
 Daniel Roberts says:

 April 22, 2016 at 4:19 pm
 
Prince and the new power ‘overlapping’ generation.
 Other famous J-Dubs include:
 Hank Marvin
 George Benson
 Michael Jackson ‘s mum
 And….
Delroy Grant (Rapist and murderer of the elderly)
 Rose West (child rapist, torturer and killer)
These last two are apparently more deserving of eternity as Gardeners, than anyone who reads and comments on this site.
RIP Prince. You were wicked. (In a totally righteous way)
Reply
 
 
 Kat says:

 April 22, 2016 at 5:48 pm
 
Was Prince a baptised JW or an unbaptised publisher?
Reply
 
 
 Isawthelight says:

 April 22, 2016 at 7:53 pm
 
You can bet your wife and home that the watchtower is waiting for the reading of Prince’s will.They are more concerned about what is in his will for them.They already have their legal department on alert. They are like a bunch of greedy vulchers when it comes to money. watch out.
Reply
 
 Bruce says:

 April 22, 2016 at 8:23 pm
 
And you know this? How? may i ask
Reply
 
 Garrett says:

 April 22, 2016 at 8:54 pm
 
Bruce
 Pull yer head outa yer ass…. The governing body knowingly and willingly allow child molesters to run hidden amongst the congregations without announcement from the platform because what they really care about is image and making sure incidents of child molestation don’t wind up in the media or courts where they could lose millions.
 Do your research!
 G
Reply
 
 
 ian york says:

 April 23, 2016 at 5:41 am
 
Bruce,
 It’s all about previous form, which is very convincing: Sell your principles when it’s too hot, eg blood fractions, UN affiliation, lying on oath at the Australian royal commission, investing in hedge funds, begging for money, overlapping generations etc. How much evidence do you need before you see that this doomsday cult that’s been shouting the end of times is just around the corner – for over a hundred years! – is a man-made, man run racket.
Reply
 
 Tracey says:

 April 24, 2016 at 1:56 am
 
Does not the bible itself says the end is near? You don’t have to be a JW to know we living in the last days. Many people I know believe this and they not witnesses. It is inevitable.
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 April 24, 2016 at 7:19 am
 
@Tracey:
“Does not the bible itself says the end is near?”
Where does the Bible state this?
“You don’t have to be a JW to know we living in the last days.”
What proof do you have that we are living in the last days?
“Many people I know believe this and they not witnesses. It is inevitable.”
There are also many people who believe that we are NOT living in the last days – this includes Christians who believe in Preterism.

 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 24, 2016 at 7:29 am
 
******………this includes Christians who believe in Preterism AND NO MILLENNIALISM.

 
 
 Searcher says:

 April 26, 2016 at 8:47 am
 
And there are a lot of people that claim to still see little green men and Sasquatch too!!! Very recently, a whole bunch of people were convinced that the Mayan calendar ends in 2012, so the world must end too. Problem is, there aren’t any Mayans around anymore, only those who made a bunch of money writing such crap. Much like the WTBTS.
I place any doomsayers in this same category. The sun will rise, the sun will set, and the wheels on the bus will go around and around. Count on that!

 
 
 
 
 
 
 Tracey says:

 April 23, 2016 at 12:09 pm
 
Lloyd you clearly never paid attention when you attended the meetings of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Nothing is done for the Governing body. We are guided by the bible. So when Jehovah’s witnesses don’t take blood it’s not because the governing body says so but because the bible says so which is inspired by Jehovah God.
Reply
 
 ian york says:

 April 23, 2016 at 2:40 pm
 
Tracey,
 The bible is purportedly God’s word, so why can it be interpreted in so many, sometimes, conflicted, ways by so many scholars? The bible doesn’t really prohibit blood transfusions, but the first century christians upheld one of the 1500 BC commandments not to eat blood as a concession to first century Jews converting to Christianity, who, along with circumcision, could not let go of all the literal dos and don’ts that the hundreds of commandments which they slavishly lived by which Jesus made redundant. The GB wrote this ‘law’ for so called modern day christians as applied to medical treatment. And what about blood fractions? Where in your bible does it say blood products ARE allowed as medical treatment provided they are small parts of whole blood? And why was this ‘truth’ not seen until the mid 90s? This is not clarification of scripture, but changes to an interpretation invented by a group of men wanting ‘product differentiation ‘. The sacrifice is needless and totally unscriptural. I am a baptized JW, but I could not stomach the shift in system of faith from following Jesus and worshipping God, to following the GB and worshipping the organization. It happened so gradually that people like you either didn’t notice it, or inherited it. You need to think more and obey less.
Reply
 
 Grace says:

 April 23, 2016 at 9:02 pm
 
Tracey,
If only we could all be so naive like you. If you took a blood transfusion & the Elders found out about it. What do you think would happen to you? Think about it.
Reply
 
 Tracey says:

 April 23, 2016 at 10:29 pm
 
Firstly I would never take a blood transfusion. And it’s not about fearing the elders. At the end of the day we have to answer to God. The elders are there to Shepherd the flock. Grace the truth will be revealed.
Reply
 
 Grace says:

 April 23, 2016 at 11:41 pm
 
Tracey,
Yes, the truth is being revealed. Every day in the newspapers the world is getting to know how dangerous this religion is to people & how tight a grip they have over people with personal medical decisions like blood.

 
 
 
 
 
 Winston Smith says:

 April 23, 2016 at 8:52 pm
 
Since you feel it is biblically wrong to use a blood transfusion to save someone’s life, I suppose it was also wrong for Jesus to heal on the sabbath. After all that’s the letter of the law. If that’s the way your read your bible then you have totally missed the point. Christ taught that life was more important than the letter of the law. He told the Pharisees ‘who would not rescue his son if he fell into a pit on the sabbath?’ Even the rabbis have a standard called picuah nephesh – translation ‘life overrides law.’
WS
Reply
 
 Tracey says:

 April 24, 2016 at 1:49 am
 
Grace do you believe in the bible? Do you consider yourself a Christian? If you do then you know the Truth will be revealed.
Reply
 
 Grace says:

 April 24, 2016 at 2:01 pm
 
Tracey,
Your version of the truth is different to so many others on this planet that believe in the Bible yet all believe that they have the “truth”. Each belief system picks what they want from the Bible to create their ideology.
This religion is bases its doctrine on many non-scriptual rules so whether I believe in the Bible or not has not a lot to do with this religion being the “truth”.
Reply
 
 Grace says:

 April 24, 2016 at 2:04 pm
 
Sorry about that last paragraph its meant to make sense but it’s 5 am here in Australia;)

 
 
 
 
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 24, 2016 at 11:23 am
 
Tracey, LLoyd paid attention very well, and he thought deeply about what he was being taught, which is why he was ultimately able to break free of the indoctrination. The Governing Body was preceded by several key men in the JW organization, including Nathan Knorr and JF Rutherford. Are you aware of the history of the blood policy within the JW organization? It is likely not what you think, and it has taken many twists and turns over the years, to the point where today, you can accept a blood “fraction” without penalty. But let me ask you Tracey, where did the blood fraction come from?
Will you accept a blood fraction?
If so, will you donate blood, which is the source of these fractions?
Do you know what will happen to you if you donate blood?
The blood policy has nothing to do with God or Christ, it has everything to do with solidarity as an organization – being different, and having an interpretation of the Scriptures which makes Jehovah’s Witnesses stand out. Without the blood policy, disfellowshipping and shunning, and the publishing empire, Jehovah’s Witnesses would be un-newsworthy. They have adopted this blood policy which has nothing to do with pouring blood out upon the ground and making God happy. If you believe in the teachings of Jesus, you would not for one minute believe that he would allow a child to die because of a mandate from the Governing Body of JWs. These men meet every Wednesday and vote on your life – the vote on how you can dress, how you preach, what you can watch, and what kind of medical care is acceptable. This is not God, it is men.
We are happy you are here reading important articles, and I would recommend that you read Ray Franz book Crisis of Conscience – this will give you very deep insight into what goes on inside the Governing Body, and will show you how their decisions were rarely based on scripture, but on personal opinions, and a 2/3 vote was needed to confirm a decision. Your eyes will be opened widely I can assure you. This is your life – make sure you read everything you can to get all of the facts. It will make a difference, I promise
JR
Reply
 
 
 
 Caleb & $ophia says:

 April 23, 2016 at 2:19 pm
 
The service department had instructed the local elders NOT to approve Prince to become a non baptized publisher without their permission. They did the same before approving him for baptism.
The GB through the service department stayed in close communication with Princes’ elders as to his progress and had to answer specific questions about how conduct and morality.
Both his becoming a publisher and baptism were directly approved by headquarters due to his celebrity status. The WT did not trust the local elders to make such decision.
My source is someone reliable with direct knowledge in Patterson where the service department was located at the time.
Reply
 
 
 Twmack says:

 April 23, 2016 at 3:06 pm
 
@ Tracy, The problem was, we paid too much attention,
 always accepting, never questioning. A sure way to
 become a victim of any fraudster. Col,2:8.
Can you explain, Why you are allowed to accept fractions
 from blood that has been donated specifically for use in
 transfusions? And can you tell us if you yourself would
 donate blood? And if not why not?
Also, as the blood prohibition is exclusively a dietary law
 and every Bible reference to it bears this out. Can you
 explain by whose authority you are adding things to the
 Bible by extending it to medical use?
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 April 23, 2016 at 3:37 pm
 
I once heard a secular Jew say that the Jews’ dietary laws/food regulations were necessary given that they didn’t have refrigeration back in the day.
Interestingly, the Jews who were purportedly “inspired” by God to write the Bible containing the blood prohibition dietary law/food regulation, are not against blood transfusions and blood donations.
It should also be noted that meat can never be completely rid/cleaned of its blood. Meat purchased from the supermarket still has blood in it thus everybody who eats meat, eats some blood. JWs should be vegetarians since they shouldn’t consume blood.
I am sure the JWs, especially the females eat meat as a source of iron – meat is a good source of iron because it has blood in it, how ironic for the JWs.
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 April 23, 2016 at 11:48 pm
 
So JWs eat meat which still has some blood in it but they can’t get a blood transfusion.
Reply
 
 
 
 Tracey says:

 April 23, 2016 at 10:16 pm
 
Well where I come from they encourage us to not just accept. We need to ask questions and to look to the Scriptures for the answers. I was brought up in the truth. And when I got to a certain age I also questioned my faith and compared other religions i wanted to make syre this is the truth and went searching for the answers and happy to be a part of the Christian Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses. You have to make the truth your own. You can’t just carry on because you were brought up in the faith. And besides…. Jesus said no one comes to me unless the father calls them. God is searching the hearts of people.
Reply
 
 Outandabout says:

 April 23, 2016 at 11:30 pm
 
So, Tracey, what did you do to examine other religions? Did you go to Japan? Did you go to India or China? What about Eskimo’s? If you know so much, please tell me about these other ‘false’ beliefs and in the same depth as you know yours. No, girl, with respect, you know nothing. All you’ve done to research these other beliefs is to read the Watchtower version of them which adds up to nothing more than reading Watchtower cult propaganda designed with the sole purpose of keeping you believing their view on things. That’s not research. When you’re encouraged to examine scriptures at the meetings, watch out if you don’t come up with the scripted answer they want by using the NWT. You will be turned around to believe what they demand! Why was the normal version of the bible used by JW’s until during Rutherford’s reign? It’s because their beliefs became so far out of wack with the Bible and so easily dis-proved and so many questions were being asked that they were forced to print their own Bible and call it ‘new and improved’. To do that is one of the major signs of a cult. Now do now you see why they discourage ‘independent thinking’, a.k.a. ‘using your brains’?
Reply
 
 Tracey says:

 April 24, 2016 at 9:11 am
 
You don’t need to go to another country to learn the truth or any other religion. And no I never got my info from the witnesses. If you search you will find answers. One has to be humble and have the right motives.
Reply
 
 rahab says:

 April 24, 2016 at 8:05 pm
 
yes tracey,you don’t have to go to another country for you to know the truth about their religions.just keep lingering here around this blog and sooner or later you will know the truth about the truth and welcome to the world of wt apostates

 
 
 
 
 
 
 Chiafade says:

 April 23, 2016 at 7:56 pm
 
Oh my god, did anyone else read this in People magazine?
“The Jehovah’s Witness Church has released a statement following the untimely death of Prince, who officially converted to the religion in 2003.
“We are saddened to hear about the death of Prince Rogers Nelson, who was baptized as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in 2003,” a church spokesperson, David A. Semonian, said in a statement obtained by PEOPLE.
Semonian said that Prince “found fulfillment as a Witness and in sharing his faith with others.”
The statement added: “We do not have any details regarding his medical condition or the cause of his death. Our thoughts are with his family and friends, particularly his fellow worshippers in the Saint Louis Park congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Minnesota. We hope that all find comfort in the Bible’s promise of a future time when death, pain, and tears will be no more.—Revelation 21:3, 4.”
In true shameless witness fashion they have used the death of someone to promote their cult agenda.
Reply
 
 
 Stephan friz says:

 April 23, 2016 at 8:50 pm
 
Mr lloyd… You seem to have it all figured out! Ask any person in any religion to stand up and say “i beleive in God, Jesus but not in the men at the head of the church” … They will probably throw you out… Jehovah’s witnesses will stop you from interfering with any meetings but they will definitely not stop you from beleiving what you want to beleive… The chouce is yours… If you don’t beleive the faithful and discreet slave is sent to us by Jehovah… Find another religion that’s all. Nobody forcing your hand.
Reply
 
 Winston Smith says:

 April 23, 2016 at 9:00 pm
 
@Stephan
“but they will definitely not stop you from beleiving what you want to beleive”
Sorry, but I have to call BS on that. Oh sure you can believe whatever you want, but don’t you dare speak of it. Why don’t you try commenting at the meeting about how you don’t believe that Christ started ruling in 1914 or something similar and see how fast the elders have you in the back room and are talking about apostasy.
WS
Reply
 
 Tracey says:

 April 23, 2016 at 10:23 pm
 
Think you missed his point. If you don’t believe in what they teach join another religion. You not forced to go to the kingdom hall and you have a choice to either accept or disagree but if you want to be a part of this organisation then we all have to be United in faith.
Reply
 
 Winston Smith says:

 April 24, 2016 at 5:44 am
 
It’s nice that you have all the answers Tracey. What you fail to realize is that those answers have been programmed in you by a cult. I was the same way for my 30+ years in the sect. But then I woke up and found out the truth about the “truth.” To be part of this organization, you all have to believe the same. But that’s not according to scripture. Have you ever read Romans 14:1-12 where it says some Christians would keep a certain day as holy and yet others would not? Yet they were not to judge others for it. This unity at all costs that the JWs require is not in line with the scriptures.
WS
Reply
 
 
 
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 24, 2016 at 11:07 am
 
Stephan
You are incorrect – the choice is not ours, as the indoctrination of young Jehovah’s Witnesses is so incredibly powerful and controlling, that baptisms take place at 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 years of age, and so forth. These children have no idea what life changing decision they are making, and have no idea that they can’t change their religion and choose to celebrate Christmas or Birthdays without being disfellowshipped and shunned by their immediate family for the rest of their lives.
The indoctrination of children the the subsequent demolition of thousands of families is absolutely devastating, and no child should be held accountable for such a life altering decision when they are still in a developmental stage.
So – when you say “nobody is forcing your hand” – this is utter nonsense and is completely insensitive to the fact that most people would NEVER EVER wish to be part of such a controlling fundamentalist religion if they were given the opportunity as an adult. Their hand is forced SEVERELY as minors, and they find out later that they made a huge mistake which is irreversible. Think about what you said. It’s not a choice, its a coercion.
Reply
 
 Tracey says:

 April 25, 2016 at 1:02 pm
 
John that’s not entirely true. They actually don’t encourage baptism at such a young age. Dedicating your life to serve God is a very serious decision which should not be taken lightly.
Reply
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 25, 2016 at 5:52 pm
 
Tracey – you stated that “that’s not entirely true” – which means you accept that in your mind it is at the very least partly true
Children are baptized at very young ages now. If 3 elders determine that they feel the child is old enough to make this decision, then they proceed with the baptism.
You need to understand that it is these elders which encourage and allow this, not the child. Naturally the child will want to be baptized – this is all he or she knows. Their whole life of just a few short years has been surrounded by Jehovah’s Witness parents, friends, elders, circuit overseers – all people who are telling them that this is the only choice -it is the “best way of life ever”. This is exactly what coercion and indoctrination is all about. These children do not have the maturity to make this decision, and they certainly have no idea what is in store for them when they decide to leave the religion, or have a relationship with another peer, or get an education in a proper university.
The doors are slammed shut on these children before they every have a chance to develop their minds. This is criminal, and should never be allowed. I was 16 when baptized, and I thought I knew everything – about religion, the world, the organization, so I made my dedication and was baptized, and it took me 30 years to wake up and realize I had lost my education and many other opportunities in life.
The organization knows that if a child is exposed to proper education and the entire outside world, most would never make the mistake of joining a high control religious cult which monitors every aspect of their lives, right down to the pants they wear.
Meditate on that, please, and know that we will not stop until children are protected from these dangers
Sincerely
JR
Reply
 
 Tracey says:

 April 25, 2016 at 10:22 pm
 
I am not saying young children don’t get baptised. I am saying to go out and make a statement that they are encouraging very young children to get baptised is not entirely true. Yes they encourage the youth to work towards baptism but it is also the parent responsibility to make sure the children are really ready to make such a big commitment and that they understand the severity of the decision. I have met some brothers who have been baptised at a very young age and I am touched by their loyalty and faith for being so dedicated and faithful to Jehovah. Just shows that it is possible. But most of the youth I know that are getting baptised are around 17 and 20. It depends also I guess on how mature one is. Having said this it is a decision that should not be taken lightly.

 
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 26, 2016 at 3:36 pm
 
Tracey
Please read the comments posted which refer to all of the JW publications as well as the Governing Body audio/video clips which demonstrate the pressure placed on youths in the organization
What is interesting is that you already admitted that baptism is a “big commitment” – so you and I are halfway to coming to an agreement. At this point, the only discussion is whether you can understand that such a “big commitment” should ever be placed on the shoulders of a minor.
The correct answer is a resounding NO. Never should a child be endowed with the pressure of giving away his or her rights to leave this fundamentalist religion without the benefit of knowing all available options.
You have handcuffed such a child and fed them with ONE doctrine and ONE doctrine only – that of the Jehovah’s Witness organization. Witness children are encouraged by Caleb and Sophia to use their “valuable things” including their ice cream money to further the interests of the Governing Body, who by the way do absolutely NO charitable works in the community. I know this for a fact after 46 years in the organization. Children are told that baptism is “for their protection” – but it is anything but that – it is a method to keep them as a captive audience, and shield them from a proper university education. I was baptized at 16, and I believed everything the organization taught. And why was that? Because I trusted my parents and all of my JW friends, who convinced me that the “end was near” and that I would not likely ever make it through high school, let alone college, before the world that saw the events of 1914 would end, ushering in “God’s Kingdom”.
In the end, children should be taught good morals and behavior, which are not exclusive to religion, but are common to both religious persons and atheists alike. Anything beyond that Tracey is indoctrination, which is exactly what Hitler youth and children of Muslim extremists are being taught. They are brainwashed into a dangerous belief system which teaches that everyone else is in the “world” and they are alienated from society. This is how a cult operates.
Witness children should be taught only good morals, and should never be forced into a baptism which seals their fate should they decide later that this is not the truth. They should not be allowed under any circumstances to be baptized as minors, considering the consequences of leaving the religion. The consequences must be eliminated, as this is a violation of human rights, and is child abuse. Hopefully you will recognize this soon.

 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 25, 2016 at 10:33 pm
 
Tracey:
According to the Bible, Jesus knew the scriptures at age 12 to the point where he was questioning the elders and teachers in the temple during Passover. Yet Jesus was not baptized until he was 30 years old.

 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 28, 2016 at 3:34 pm
 
There are youths who after getting baptized get disfellowshipped then shunning is used as emotional blackmail to lure disfellowshipped children back to the religion:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ-kzaIK_UA
The emotional blackmail works in the case of some youths who become reinstated, even though they don’t believe the “truth”, but simply because they desperately want their familial bonds. Some youths however, become very depressed to the point of committing suicide due to the loss of their family bond.
 Parents think that it is loving to shun their children, to cut their own child out of their lives, they have made the love for their children conditional, that is inhumane. God endorses broken families.

 
 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 25, 2016 at 7:16 pm
 
Tracey:
JWs practice child baptism some as young a six have been mentioned in their literature:
– WATCHTOWER 1992 3/1 p.27
– Year Book 2011 p.58
It seems you didn’t get a copy of the March 2016 WT with the following study articles regarding child baptism:
Young Ones—Are You Ready to Get Baptized?https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-march-2016/young-ones-ready-baptism/
Young Ones—How Can You Prepare for Baptism?https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-march-2016/young-ones-how-to-prepare-for-baptism/
Also, see the Australian Royal Commission (ARC) website –
the transcript of the testimony of GB member Geoffrey Jackson (GJ) in the child abuse investigation carried out by the ARC is of interest:
ARC: (in discussing the early baptism of members) as one of the governing body do you think, at that age, (as early as 8 or even younger) one is old enough and mature enough to make a decision affecting the rest of their lives?
GJ: Yes I do, in some cases. I have worked with people who were baptized when they were 11, and they have stuck by that determination their entire lives.
ARC: Well that may be because they cannot leave the organization without leaving behind everyone they may know.
GJ: Anything is possible.
Reply
 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 25, 2016 at 7:21 pm
 
Tracey:
In the last talk on Sunday of the 2015 JW Convention, GB member Anthony Morris III encouraged child baptism:https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=MreJ8tLYIso
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=29QTFoDfJec discusses the practice of child baptism among JWs – Watchtower article references have been provided.
Reply
 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 25, 2016 at 7:23 pm
 
Tracey:
GB member Anthony Morris III speaks about teenage baptism in the following video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKVMFGfh0uc
According to the person in the video at:https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=CES0o2qh8FQ
“I was baptized in my early teens because I was told it was the right thing to do. At that stage of my young life, I had no idea that the decision to get baptized would ultimately be the worse decision of my life. I left the organization in my early 20’s and because I was baptised, I have been shunned by my parents for most of my life. I made a call to the Watchtower headquarters to demonstrate their warped views on children dedicating their lives to this organization through baptism. I asked what the process would be to annul my baptism. I am not surprised by this elder’s response and out of principle, I want to share it to prevent other families from being destroyed by this cult. The use of shunning is the most effective fear tactic the Watchtower is notorious for… Annuling baptisms would defeat the purpose.”
Reply
 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 25, 2016 at 9:21 pm
 
Tracey:
Video of child baptisms at the 2014 International Convention of Jehovah’s Witnesses:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wbgIEd2Vgbk&feature=youtu.be
Reply
 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 25, 2016 at 10:35 pm
 
Tracey:
According to the Bible, Jesus knew the scriptures at age 12 to the point where he was questioning the elders and teachers in the temple during Passover. Yet Jesus was not baptized until he was 30 years old.
Reply
 
 
 Tara says:

 April 27, 2016 at 7:21 am
 
My granddaughter is 7 years old. 7! She is already being groomed for baptism. He uncle, an elder, has already told me that once she is baptised she will be told she will no longer be able to freely associate with her df’d father. She is 7 years old! She can no longer play with her friends from school. She can only play with witness kids. She is no longer allowed to have free speech. She is a little automaton. Her mother and father split up when her mother got pregnant to a worldly guy. Both got df’d because of the lies told against my son to justify her screwing around. We had no one on our side but she had a huge family of witnesses including Elders, MS and such like. They gathered the wagons and she was reinstated as soon as she married the father of her kids… who left his wife and two other children to do that. My son eventually moved in with and married a wonderful non witness girl and they have just had a baby. She was born at 24 wks and weighing 1Lb 5. She had to have a bloodtransfusion to save her life and I am glad her father was df’d so my grandbaby could live. She is still fighting. If the WT had, had it’s way she would be dead now… oh but wait, she would have the resurrection hope….. I say BS. WT destroys families and lives. You want the truth. Open your eyes. It’s there, right in front of you and I am glad you have the courage to come here and comment. Because, hun it shows you are searching. One does not peer into the mouth of the dragon unless there is a reason. I suspect deep down you have a reason. Kudo’s to you. But please don’t ever try to tell me how wonderful the society is. I am re finding the truth after years of being indoctrinated…. It is like a breath of fresh air. I still pray…. I am now spiritual, NOT religious. I will never go back to organised religion which is ‘a racket and a snare’.
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 April 27, 2016 at 3:25 pm
 
Hi Tara , This comment scares me aged 7 and being groomed for baptism. It really is yet another form of child abuse. I am trying to stay the days of execution of my own offspring. There are only so many feeble excuses one can come up with. I think you know what I mean. Ironically a close relative has recently been dfd not even out of teens yet and the gparents have shut up badgering my kids. I actually shudder to think of my own attempts to indoctrinate my kids when I believed all this nonsense. They know my stance but there is always the interfering ninnies and elderettes who have their mission from god. I need an apostate miracle! Ruthlee

 
 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 28, 2016 at 3:38 pm
 
“……it is also the parent responsibility to make sure the children are really ready to make such a big commitment and that they understand the severity of the decision.”
What about the elders who approve the child for baptism?
Reply
 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 28, 2016 at 3:40 pm
 
There are youths who after getting baptized get disfellowshipped then shunning is used as emotional blackmail to lure disfellowshipped children back to the religion:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ-kzaIK_UA
The emotional blackmail works in the case of some youths who become reinstated, even though they don’t believe the “truth”, but simply because they desperately want their familial bonds. Some youths however, become very depressed to the point of committing suicide due to the loss of their family bond.
 Parents think that it is loving to shun their children, to cut their own child out of their lives, they have made the love for their children conditional, they are inhumane. God endorses broken families.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Stephan friz says:

 April 23, 2016 at 8:57 pm
 
Another thing that helps one find the true religion is Love. So who one here would trust a brother in the faith (that you never met) from North Korea (any country would do) to come live in their home, while your not there, leaving them your vehicle so they can get around. Ask any faith if they would do that? Your answer will tell you who truly loves and trust their brothers in the faith.
Reply
 
 Grace says:

 April 23, 2016 at 9:01 pm
 
Stephen,
You obviously live in the jwbubble world. Have you read the child abuse scandal that is in the organisation. It’s horrendous because of the trusting nature of witnesses.
Reply
 
 Outandabout says:

 April 23, 2016 at 10:12 pm
 
Stephan… if you want to know who has control over you, just identify who you are not allowed to criticise. But ask the Watchtower before you do that.
Reply
 
 
 
 Gameisover says:

 April 24, 2016 at 3:07 am
 
It is apparent you have never done this.
 I have done in, for many years, and I can tell you
 the taking advantage, the abuses, are legion.
 They include using our phone to call overseas and leaving us with tremendous bills (twice, different people) algo denying it when confronted. I could go on and on. If you wonder why we continued offering
 our home to strangers during district assemblies, it is because when you are brainwashed you do that and more.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 April 24, 2016 at 10:47 am
 
Stephan Friz. I to trusted the Brothers from another country. I sponsored them into my home for 6 months as they were refugees. There were 5 of them
 that I supported and gladly did so with only love in my heart. The grandfather of the bunch was caught trying to molest my young 9 year old daughter. He abruptly denied it and at that time the Brothers told me NOT to call the police. He tried touching her and kissing her. Thankfully she was able to get him out of her bedroom and lock the door when he tried to come back in. Another “brother” cheated me in a business transaction out of more than $50k and lied when he said he did not fake the amount of money on the business dealing. Another brother I deal with in business created FAKE invoices to write off fake business expenses to lower his tax debt.
I know not all JW’s are like this and I have done business with some very honest and good ones but my point is they are not much different that dealing with “WORLDLY” people. In fact I have dealt with Worldly people who are just as honest and more in many cases.
Reply
 
 
 Grace says:

 April 25, 2016 at 5:06 pm
 
Here’s an example of a nice brother that you could have left the keys to your house & car to.



Reply
 
 
 
 Grace says:

 April 23, 2016 at 8:59 pm
 
Stephen Friz,
I wish that you could leave those same comments on jw.org, but you can’t because they don’t allow free expression of thought.
Reply
 
 Outandabout says:

 April 23, 2016 at 10:08 pm
 
Exactly, Grace. The owners of this site encourage visitors to correct him over any mistakes whatsoever. Like I said before, nothing like that exists on JW.Org and not only that, all JW’s know the unwritten statement of : If you notice anything wrong and don’t shut the hell up about it you’re dead at armaggedon. Nice cult!
Reply
 
 
 
 Tara says:

 April 23, 2016 at 9:11 pm
 
I’m not sure where everyone is right now but the latest from here in North America is that Prince has been cremated and a private service held by his family and friends.
Reply
 
 
 Mark Thei says:

 April 24, 2016 at 1:53 am
 
Jehovah’s witness may have played into the under-treatment and neglect of needed treatment that could have prevented the death of Prince. Faith is all good and well but when it supersedes medical care it’s questionable who really benefits.
Even stranger still is a Church releasing a statement regarding a members passing. There are multiple articles and cases where people have refused blood transfusions or other preventative medical procedures because of this religion.
Reply
 
 Mark Theo says:

 April 24, 2016 at 2:02 am
 
Book review in JAMA (The Journal of the American Medical Association), 1997-FEB-5 Vol. 277, No.5, page 425
 Awake! magazine for 1994-MAY-22, Page 2. The issue’s cover showed photographs of 26 Jehovah’s Witness children who refused a blood transfusion and subsequently died.
 Michael Smith, “Jehovah’s Witness Bleeds To Death After Giving Birth”, The Daily Telegraph (London, UK), 1993-FEB-5. See:http://www.rickross.com/reference/Art64.html
 Charnicia E. Huggins, “Childbirth Death Risk High in Jehovah’s Witnesses,” Reuters, at: http://news.excite.com/news/r/011108/17/health-childbirthBased on a report in American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology 2001;185:893-895.
 M Khadra, “A criterion audit of women’s awareness of blood transfusion in pregnancy,” 1Women & Children’s Division, North Staffordshire Maternity Unit, Newcastle Road, Stoke on Trent, Staffs, ST4 6QG, UK, at: http://www.biomedcentral.com/ This is a PDF file. You may require software to read it. Software can be obtained free from:
 Marvin Shilmer, “Deaths Due To Blood Refusal,” Jehovahs-Witness.com, 2007-JAN-08, at: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/
“Bethany Hughes: Dad given OK to sue over death,” Calgary Sun, 2006-FEB-27.
Reply
 
 
 

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Superstar Prince Pronounced Dead: World in Shock Over Passing of Celebrity Jehovah’s Witness
avatar 
Posted on April 21, 2016
 
April 22nd, 2016
Seldom does the death of one individual captivate the news so completely as when a superbly talented, musically gifted, and internationally beloved icon such as Prince loses his life. What would be a routine day of reporting of the U.S. Presidential race, international conflicts, and earthquake relief work has become a media spectacle, cornering all of the major news outlets including CNN and BBC.
For Jehovah’s Witnesses, the death of Prince comes with a mixed bag of emotions due to the controversial and mysterious nature of the converted JW pop star. While many Witnesses embrace the fact that such a gifted individual would accept their fundamentalist faith, other Witnesses despise his behavior and view his entire body of work as evidence of Satan’s influence in the entertainment industry.
This polarization of attitudes towards the few Jehovah’s Witnesses who have achieved worldwide fame reveals that the Watchtower organization is not really quite sure what to make of these individuals. While Scientology openly embraces and heaps accolades on its well-known celebrities like Tom Cruise and John Travolta, Jehovah’s Witnesses take a more subdued approach to fame, preferring to name-drop B-rated scientists who support creationism.
larrygrahamawake
February 22nd 1989 Awake! Magazine

There are some exceptions to this, most notably Watchtower’s 1989 life story of Larry Graham, the
 man responsible for Prince’s conversion to the JW religion. Larry Graham’s life journey in becoming one of Jehovah’s Witnesses was featured in the February 22nd 1989 issue of the Awake! magazine, published by the Watchtower organization.
While Witness publications almost never feature persons of fame, Larry Graham was an exception to this policy, primarily due to his extraordinary devotion to the faith, and the fact that he became a full-time “pioneer” minister for Jehovah’s Witnesses as well as an elder in the congregation. As a result of his evangelical nature, coupled with his connection to many prominent musicians, he was able to get the attention of Prince Rogers Nelson, or as we know him, Prince.
larrygrahamfamily
Larry Graham and Family at the Kingdom Hall

By the year 2001, Prince had accepted the faith of his close friend Graham, replacing his prior beliefs which included membership in the Seventh Day Adventist church. As Graham’s spiritual protegé, he publicly cast off the celebration of birthdays, voting, and embraced Jehovah’s Witnesses’ bizarre ban on life-saving blood transfusions. He even accompanied Graham in the public ministry, knocking on doors, counting his time. But make no mistake, Prince was not about to throw away the only thing which made Prince Prince, his explosive imagination, creativity and genius musical talent which could not be contained inside the stagnant four walls of a Kingdom Hall.
His career continued, mildly subdued by the religion, but never irreversibly stifled by the rigid rules of Watchtower’s invasive Governing Body. And this was in fact the reason Prince was such a controversial figure among Jehovah’s Witnesses. Just as with one-time Jehovah’s Witness Michael Jackson, the musical products of Prince divided Witnesses into two camps: one which admired his music and bragged about his affiliation with the organization, and the other which labeled him as a despicable hypocrite whose sexually permissive appearance and lyrics disgraced the holy and conservative beliefs of the JW organization.
By the time Prince had become a Witness, Michael Jackson had already left the religion, but not before being coerced into a public apology for his music video Thriller, which the Awake! magazine connected with spiritism. In the May 1984 Awake! publication, Jackson was quoted as saying:

“I would never do it again”.
While Jackson died in complete disgrace among Witnesses as a disassociated member, Prince somehow managed to avoid judicial punishment and ostracism for his questionable lifestyle, as his music, associates, and actions were the polar opposite of the ultra-conservative JW beliefs.
Prince died at a terribly young age. Speculations as to the cause of his death are spreading like gangrene, and are useless in the face of the reality that we have lost yet another entertainment genius, and we won’t get him back. The intersection of his life with that of the Jehovah’s Witness religion raises many questions which might not be answered for quite some time. Until then, we can only comment on what we know, and what Prince said.
For a brilliant and thoughtful review of the passing of Prince Rogers Nelson, please view the following video produced by Lloyd Evans, senior editor for JW Survey:



 
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255 Responses to Superstar Prince Pronounced Dead: World in Shock Over Passing of Celebrity Jehovah’s Witness

← Older Comments
 
 alain says:

 April 24, 2016 at 4:40 am
 
Was Prince a baptized JW? Or was he just a sympathizer, sharing beliefs and faith with his old friend, Larry Graham?
Reply
 
 Alice says:

 April 25, 2016 at 3:51 pm
 
Here is your answer:
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-prince-jehovah-20160424-story.html
At a Jehovah’s Witness hall, congregants remember Prince as ‘Brother Nelson’
This may have been the plainest room Prince spent time in as an adult.
 Auditorium A in the Kingdom Hall of the St. Louis Park Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses doesn’t have a dance club or a recording studio. The Jehovah’s Witnesses who meet in this small complex outside Minneapolis don’t even have any musical instruments except for a piano hidden in a closet that no one uses. The walls are various shades of beige. Nothing shines, and nothing is purple. Nothing about it says “Prince.”
That’s because in Auditorium A, Prince Rogers Nelson was not known as Prince, the music megastar, but as Brother Nelson, the Jehovah’s Witness. Here, one of America’s greatest sex symbols didn’t arrive in spandex and stilettos but in conservative suits and ties. He was often hard to spot among the congregation of dozens unless you were looking right at him. And that wasn’t the only way he blended in.
 Over the final decade of his life, Prince worshiped here because he was a fellow believer in the Jehovah’s Witness tenets: that Jesus was a savior but was lesser to God, that these are the final days of civilization, that the dead will be resurrected, and that the world will live under a global government lead by Jehovah, a Hebrew name for God. Among the St. Louis Park congregation, Prince wasn’t a celebrity but an equal in faith.
“He was accepted as our brother,” said congregant Josephine Parker, 74, on Sunday as the congregation gathered for its first meeting since Prince’s death. “He wasn’t treated as maybe the world would treat him.”
Hundreds of students, participating in the 27th annual High School Choir Festival at Disney Concert Hall in downtown Los Angeles, honor Prince with a rendition of “Purple Rain.”
Parker fondly remembered Prince as a gentle soul and a “mild spirit,” and his death last week at age 57 broke her heart. But, Parker said, “I look forward to the time we can welcome him back on the Earth.”
Prince was one of America’s most notoriously private celebrities, and few facts about his life were more beguiling than his conversion in 2001 to Jehovah’s Witnesses, a faith not recognized as Christian by Catholics and Protestants largely because Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe in the Holy Trinity.
 Jehovah’s Witnesses call themselves Christians, and they admire Jesus, but they don’t venerate the cross and don’t celebrate Christmas or Easter — or birthdays. They don’t gather in churches but in Kingdom Halls. They avoid political involvement and refuse to fight in wars.
 Over the last week, some fans and acquaintances have wondered whether Prince’s religious beliefs may have even contributed to his death, because Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe in taking blood transfusions for scriptural reasons. They do accept other medical treatments, however, and officials and people close to Prince have not released enough information about the singer’s health to substantiate any of those suspicions.
 Prince, who was raised as a Seventh-day Adventist, was converted — or at least helped along — by Larry Graham, the former bass player for Sly and the Family Stone.
“I don’t see it really as a conversion,” Prince told the New Yorker magazine in 2008. “More, you know, it’s a realization. It’s like Morpheus and Neo in ‘The Matrix.’”
Prince embraced the faith and even proselytized his neighbors around his Paisley Park estate in the Minneapolis suburbs, who were sometimes shocked to find the star on their doorsteps.
In Minneapolis, everyone has a story about Prince
 On the afternoon of Yom Kippur in 2003, a Jewish couple in Eden Prairie opened their door to discover the 5-foot-2 singer standing in front of them. Even though a Vikings football game was on, they invited him in.
“My first thought is, ‘Cool, cool, cool. He wants to use my house as a set. I’m glad! Demolish the whole thing! Start over!’” a woman who only gave her name as Rochelle told the Minneapolis Star Tribune.
 But Prince was there to proselytize them to become Jehovah’s Witnesses. “I said, ‘You know what? You’ve walked into a Jewish household, and this is not something I’m interested in,’” Rochelle told the newspaper.
 Prince reportedly replied to her, “Can I finish?” He stayed for 25 minutes and left a pamphlet.
 Prince’s adherence to the particularly conservative faith — which opposes same-sex marriage and premarital sex — also seemed paradoxical given his history as a gender-bending sex icon.
 When asked about his views on same-sex marriage and abortion in 2008, Prince tapped his Bible and told the New Yorker, “God came to earth and saw people sticking it wherever and doing it with whatever, and he just cleared it all out. He was, like, ‘Enough.’”
No contradiction seemed to exist for the Jehovah’s Witnesses at the Kingdom Hall in Minnetonka on Sunday. Steve Smedberg, 63, said in an interview, “He believed the same thing the rest of us believed. I guess he was willing to let the Bible be his authority.”
And in Auditorium A, Prince also seemed to have found a space in America where he might not be treated as some kind of deity. He arrived and left without fanfare at the group’s gatherings, which are called “meetings.” He contributed to discussion but never put himself at the center of attention. He never performed for the congregation, but he sang along with the prerecorded religious hymns like everyone else.
“Jehovah’s Witnesses want to be average, normal people. That’s my goal in life, to be normal,” Smedberg said. “He seemed to want to be a normal person.”
Anna Barry, who holds the title of “regular pioneer” in the congregation, remembered when Prince began arriving for worship meetings in the 2000s and participating in the study sessions where congregants discuss Scripture together.
 When discussing the importance of spiritual harmony during one of his early meetings, Prince remarked to the congregation that “if you were in a band and one of the instruments was out of tune, you’d stick out like a sore thumb,” Barry recalled.
 When Barry complimented Prince for his contribution after the meeting, Prince responded, “Thank you, Sister Barry,” and she was impressed he had learned her name.
“He felt like it was a safe place here,” Barry said.
Here are the artists Prince brought into the spotlight
 Prince often vanished from the congregation for long periods, apparently while he was traveling, and his fellow congregants didn’t seem to begrudge him, acknowledging the effect his musical gifts had on the broader world. They also said he apparently visited other Kingdom Halls when he was on the road.
 The last time Prince was seen in Auditorium A was on the evening of March 23 for an annual memorial held to mark Jesus’ death. Prince was wearing a suit and tie and had his Bible and songbook like everyone else, but he looked “pale and tired,” said Brian Steffen, a 69-year-old ministerial servant, the title given to selected men who undertake various operational duties in a Kingdom Hall.
 Eighty-two congregants, plus a few journalists, attended Sunday’s meeting after Prince’s death, where the primary topic of discussion was forgiveness and love. The group sang prerecorded songs with titles including “Loyally Submitting to Theocratic Order.” They also took turns reading from and discussing “The Watchtower,” the faith’s official magazine.
 Although Prince’s death had sent shock waves around the world, he was only briefly mentioned once at a gathering of people who actually knew him.
 See the most-read stories this hour >>
“Our brother, Prince Rogers Nelson, fell asleep in death last Thursday,” said an elder, Sean Barry. And that was it.
 He was just another faithful congregant, said Karla Mack, 54. “If he was here, he would be talking to you about the Bible and talking about Jehovah.”
But after the gathering broke up, Steffen, the ministerial servant, acknowledged the loss.
“I knew he was a genius at what he did,” Steffen said. “One time somebody came up to me after a meeting and said, ‘Brian, now you can say you sang with Prince.’”
Follow @mattdpearce for the latest national news.
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Reply
 
 
 
 Caroline says:

 April 24, 2016 at 4:41 am
 
So far, suicide has been ruled out and it will take some time before the cause of Prince’s death will be learned but he had cancelled two concerts because of health reasons and just before his death, he made up at least one of those concerts and on his way home to Minnesota, the plane made an emergency stop in Chicago and he was taken to the hospital but released in a few hours and went back to his home in Minneapolis and then just a couple days later, he threw a big party and supposedly said something like “you don’t have to pray for me in two days” which people are trying to figure out what that meant but then two days later, he was found dead.
Since Prince was so famous, I always felt that, if he ever learned the truth about the truth, that that would have held a very high price for the Society to pay if he were ever let the cat out of the bag.
Is it possible that he could have been done away with by the Society to keep him quiet, since, if the truth about the Society’s lie, that would have literally destroyed the lives of eight million Jehovah’s Witnesses?
Probably the real truth is that he had a medical condition and he knew he was going to die soon and that is what he found out during his emergency stop in Chicago that night on his way back to Minneapolis after that last concert and why he threw that party on Monday night, but the thought did cross my mind.
Reply
 
 Kamil says:

 April 25, 2016 at 10:16 pm
 
You are all just a bunch of loser’s without religion and god. Prince was a baptized Jehovah’s Witness in2003 and people respect that or at least tolerate his believes.Cheap internet haters,medieval way of thinking,a’la kkk.Big mouth,small brain.
Reply
 
 Latinpatty says:

 April 26, 2016 at 3:02 pm
 
ohh it is evidently you are a Jehova witness but hello what aggressive you are and the language that you use..
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Twmack says:

 April 24, 2016 at 4:53 am
 
@Tracy, Your reasoning is very vague and inconsistent.
 You talk about the need to “Be united in the faith”, but
 by commenting here you have strayed from the flock,
 your a rebel setting your own independent standards.
 Why are you going against WT directions?—-
What is involved in avoiding false teachers? We do not receive them into our homes or greet them. We also refuse to read their literature, watch TV programs that feature them, examine their Web sites, or add our comments to their blogs. WT 11,7/15 p15
Also, why have you avoided answering my question regarding
 accepting fractions from donated blood?
Reply
 
 Winston Smith says:

 April 24, 2016 at 6:13 am
 
Twmack
 Think back to when we were first waking up. We still held certain teachings dear and still thought we had to defend Watchtower to some extent. The period of coming awake can be a tumultuous one with much back and forth. We are programmed to give certain answers, but we also know something is just not right. That could be Tracey’s case.
Or he/she could be a watchtower troll and counting their time when on this site. But let’s give the benefit of the doubt for now.
WS
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 April 24, 2016 at 6:28 am
 
I agree on this. We have a number of ‘new faces’ who have been brave enough to join us. I also went through a phase, when waking up, of still trying to justify the beliefs that had been indoctrinated into me. When I was baptised I stopped studying ‘worldly’ literature because only the WT had it right. It has been an illuminating and refreshing journey in the last couple of years to seek out independent thoughts on taboo subjects.
I hope those who have joined us glean something to think about as they sit at the meetings, read the literature, watch the broadcasting’s etc. Please also go look at JW Facts.
You must have questions if you are on this site. Know the truth and the truth will set you free 🙂
Reply
 
 
 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 24, 2016 at 7:23 am
 
@Tracey:
“Does not the bible itself says the end is near?”
 – Where does the Bible state this?
“You don’t have to be a JW to know we living in the last days.”
 – What proof do you have that we are living in the last days?
“Many people I know believe this and they not witnesses. It is inevitable.”
 – There are also many people who believe that we are NOT living in the last days, this includes Christians who believe in Preterism.
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 April 24, 2016 at 7:27 am
 
******………this includes Christians who believe in Preterism AND NO MILLENNIALISM.
Reply
 
 
 
 Twmack says:

 April 24, 2016 at 11:05 am
 
The last days are experienced by thousands every time
 the Earth makes a full turn on its axis, some will be famous
 but the majority will be obscure.
The apostle John in his old age was still expecting the end
 1 Joh, 2:18. Not the end of the Jewish system, for
 that had happened over a quarter of a century before the
 writing of this particular letter.
like every other mortal, John came to his end, and sadly
 without seeing his hopes fulfilled. What prospects are there
 of the predictions of the self appointed F&DS being any more
 successful than those of the apostle ? Zero !
I’ve accepted my own mortality, and enjoyed the life I’ve had.
 And I’m glad I saw through the delusion and didn’t waste
“All” my life chasing the JW mirage, A mere illusion.
Reply
 
 
 Michele says:

 April 24, 2016 at 12:05 pm
 
I wonder if he left any of his fortune to the WTS. I bet he did.
Reply
 
 
 JBob says:

 April 24, 2016 at 10:12 pm
 
Now that the riffraff have all posted—
It is probably stunning to many JW’s and non-JW’s that Prince conducted multiple and numerous charitable activities throughout his lifetime, even after his conversion to JW [sidebar: long ago in an interview far, far back when, Prince noted that he pursued this conversion as a promise to his dying mother]. Thus, most probable that some of those fortunes are endowments to that activity.
(57 is young? Redwood must be as ancient as that tortoise in the Watchtower’s “evolution” literature…)
Like many “superstars” and local ‘icons’ the path laid out for his spiritual journey is different from the average r/f member. Envious much? Keep in mind that the physical toll on this young “fella” had nudged him toward using a cane–albeit stylish–to walk. But, what I admire most about his life is a living example of the “cup running over”. Blessings flowing to him were showered back into the world and community not only as musical gifts but in charitable and edifying methods we are yet to learn and discover.
But as Redwood and others note, the polarization among hardcore conservative JW’s and more moderate “live and let live” JW’s reflects conservative insecurities about being an “odd” duck in the pond of religious beliefs. A consuming obsession with being, or appearing, to be normal to the point of being bland and lukewarm as the myth goes so as not to detract from the ministry. Prince, Michael Jackson and other geniuses and savants take this “myth” and flip it upside down by placing their shiny bauble at hilltop. Further, it busts this myth from those who prescribe a one-size-fits-all ministry (service) to God. Even Watchtower HQ has given up on this myth, as it scrambles to record tv and videos of its “star” presenters while shoving aside attempts to shape pig ears into silky speakers and presenters of its message.
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 April 25, 2016 at 7:11 am
 
“57 is young? Redwood must be as ancient as that tortoise in the Watchtower’s “evolution” literature…”
You’re considered a senior at age 55 and up in some societies, and a youth if you are in the 13 to 35 age group……… maybe Redwood has other ideas……….you’re as young as you feel?
Reply
 
 
 Join-Stay25Yrs-Leave says:

 April 26, 2016 at 2:19 am
 
And who are these “more moderate ‘live and let live’ JW’s” of whom you speak? 😀
Reply
 
 JBob says:

 April 26, 2016 at 5:55 pm
 
😀 – yes, moderate–or progressives–maybe not throwing all rules out but loosening the collars and leashes a tad.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 TS says:

 April 25, 2016 at 3:59 am
 
Colossians 2:8 A lier and dangerious man you are.Bible gives you an answer…”poor man”
Reply
 
 
 Average Joe says:

 April 25, 2016 at 4:47 am
 
I’m currently reading Ray Franz’s “Crisis Of Conscience” at long last. It’s heavy going at times and a lot of the letters and references I skim over (I realise they are there to prove what he is saying is true but I take him at his word anyway) but what he describes is amazing and totally different to the organisation I thought I belonged to.
 The double standards of the Governing Body are shocking, especially when they more-or-less caused the needless atrocities in Malawi by not allowing the bothers there to possess a political party ID card (even though Malawi was a one-party state anyway) whilst allowing the brothers in Mexico to not only have an army allegiance card but even paying bribes to get fake ones. I’m all in favour of the brothers doing what’s humanely possible to live a trouble free life (especially from religious oppression) but having double standards and then washing your hands of those that do (like in Mexico) saying that they would not be helped by the WTS if they got into trouble because of their actions (although approved then condoned by the WTS) really beggars belief.
 All of the 1914 teachings came from Adventists, as early Watchtower literature even admits. That’s the point I’ve just read in his book and am now at the stage where he is wanting to resign from the GB.
 What a fascinating book and life story. Whilst I won’t be going the way Lloyd & many others have gone by denying existence in God, my faith in the JW org is crumbling quickly. Thanks to Lloyd for putting me on to this book (despite the childish controversy surrounding it on the part of over-zealous ex-JW evangelists) as it truly is a work of art and more honest than any life story that you’ll see in a WT.
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 April 25, 2016 at 8:12 am
 
Hope you’ll also get around to reading ex-GB member Raymond Franz’s follow up book: IN SEARCH OF CHRISTIAN FREEDOM. It exposes key JW doctrines & pactrices regarding for eg.
– the faithful & discreet slave
– the origin & validity of shunning
– the misuse of disfellowshipping
– the use of the name Jehovah & Jehovah’s Witnesses
– the insistence on going from house to house
– the WT’s version of what constitutes the “good news”
 – the ban on blood transfusions
– etc.
Reply
 
 Average Joe says:

 April 25, 2016 at 9:19 am
 
All in good time Dee! 😉
Thanks for the tip.
 x
Reply
 
 
 
 
 James Broughton says:

 April 25, 2016 at 7:00 am
 
JBob makes some interesting points. The Society cannot really tolerate having superstars in their midst (unlike the Mormons) because individuality is squeezed out in favour of the corporate image (sorry about the jargon). As the GB are taking on celebrity status under the JW.org logo, the average Witness is being made to bow down before them rather like Daniel and his companions at the time of the Babylonian exile.
Reply
 
 Eyes opened says:

 April 25, 2016 at 9:40 am
 
Sounds spot on. Also the two Ray Franz books are must reads. Excellent information, well documented. The info contained in these books is absolutely need to know. I have great respect for the man.
Regards
Reply
 
 
 
 David Fletcher says:

 April 25, 2016 at 11:11 am
 
As someone who was bought up as a JW then disfellowshipped then looked at other religions and so called bible followers with a view of disproving the JW’s beyond doubt all I found was nothing but hypocrisy, or they kept saying give me some money. I went to one Church it was a very old building looking grand in all its glory and within the first 5 minutes the Vicar mentioned the collection plate at least 3 times. No mention of the bible in and way after 30 minutes I walked out in disgust. I went to another where I was sitting in a nice little Congregation listening to the speaker and getting engrossed in his good delivery when all of a sudden a big lady sat at the side of me stood up & shouted at the top of her voice “Hallelujah Praise the Lord” needless to say I about wet myself & didn’t go there again. I got involved in many things that were illegal and turned my back on all I had been taught. Needless to say that I suffered. After a few VERY near misses with death I decided I ought to get my life in order. So I stopped doing the illegal things etc, cut down the drinking etc, and thought right where do I go from here. During all the time that I was away from the witnesses I honestly believed they were to blame for all my problems along with Jehovah for allowing things to happen to me like cruelly being disfellowshipped. Little did I realise that it wasn’t what I had done wrong it was my attitude that got me disfellowshipped. Many times during the years I was away from them I would perhaps come across a witness who would ask if I’d ever thought of gong back. My reply was “I could never live up to the standards”. To cut a long story short I am now back as a witness I am very regretful I ever left, when I see others my age who have stayed in the truth and have successfull families and business and are Elders etc. You see I understand you people that have been JW’s & how you must justify your actions to yourselves because you don’t want to admit that your wrong and that is why you twist and manipulate things to make us look bad and you look big brave and clever for denying us and trying to make us look bad. Who are usually the first rescue team on the scene in natural disasters who don’t get paid who don’t solicit donations who don’t go round bragging they are usually the first who not only help our own but help others as well. Might I respectfully ask that you stop being so nastily dogmatic in your views, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but do you see jw people posting things on here about the lies and the low morals of many of today’s churches and naming and shaming them. The answer is NO. Try live and let live instead of trying to stir hatred.
Reply
 
 Grace says:

 April 25, 2016 at 2:26 pm
 
David,
You mustn’t read your Watchtowers because it’s full of criticism towards other religions. How dare you put all other religions down when you only visited a couple. Just because you didn’t make a good life for yourself outside of the organisation doesn’t mean that others haven’t. You obviously need the controlling element in the organisation in your life to behave. If so, then I’m not here to take that away from you. That’s your decision but please don’t paint the Watchtower with your fairytale version of it. Go back & read the literature.
One of my favourites sayings is: “I would rather be around people who are good & need God then people who need God to be good”.
I have many friends who are not involved with religion that have been the kindest & most understanding people. That are decent family orientated people.
As for being the first on scene for a natural disaster. You’re buying into the propaganda that is being fed to you that is total bs.
You don’t know me or anyone else here to accuse us of justifying our actions. My husband & I have not done anything to be shunned except to be shocked & outspoken over the utter madness of the child abuse policies. The Australian Royal Commission who simply started looking at the Catholic Church were bombarded by many JW victims here in Australia that came forward asking for help so the ARC looked into it. They were absolutely shocked by their findings. I can tell you this first hand as I have had contact with them.
Reply
 
 
 Outandabout says:

 April 25, 2016 at 2:32 pm
 
David….who are usually the first rescue team on the scene? Well, I’ve never heard of a self funding quick response JW rescue team who are always at the ready to turn up like the Thunderbirds and unselfishly be the heroes of the day. Any aid administered by the JW’s is no more special than all the other ‘haughty’ organisations. It’s only natural for human beings from all backgrounds to help out in a crisis. It’s called ‘being human’
Who don’t solicit funds? Are you kidding???????
 Lets not waste any time on that one.
 Who don’t brag? Again….you must be joking. Maybe they don’t brag openly to the outside world, but the message from the Awakes is loud and clear and that’s all about exaggerating reality in order to make JW’s feel special about themselves. In other words… lie to you. When did you last see a JW soup kitchen? Charity shop? The Watchtower is a self serving organisation with the unwritten motto: ‘Self Preservation at all Cost’.
JW’s posting lies about other religions? The Watchtower totally slanders other religions in it’s publications and particularly hates the Catholics and has been doing so for decades and decades.
 I myself do not hate JW’s and have never met anyone who does. An elder came to my door a while back and he was one of the very few people I’ve ever met that I’ve taken an instant liking to. He could be my friend no worries. I did a job for a woman the other week and came away thinking how nice she was. I later found out she was a witness. I have JW family. The hatred you are experiencing is directed at the Watchtower itself and not the followers, but that message gets blurred by bad communication.
 While you were out of the faith, it’s a shame you didn’t seek help from a professional therapist and explain to them that you’re coming out of a long term abusive relationship and need some help.
Reply
 
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 25, 2016 at 5:39 pm
 
David
We appreciate your comments and your viewpoint. I would like to point out that this is not a site intended to stir up any hate, not by any means
I would like to address a few things for your benefit -the first is your comment to “live and let live”. Personally, we all agree with this concept. However I must point out that there is a problem with this. Allowing an organization which violates core civil rights to continue its practices unobstructed is not an option for us. Someone must speak out against harmful policies of any organization, educating the public to the serious dangers of influential cults. To summarize key issues which violate a person’s right to a free and happy life, note the following
1) The Watchtower organization practices shunning and disfellowshipping, which tears families to pieces due to the requirement of strict obedience to the Governing Body’s rules
 2) Jehovah’s Witnesses encourage baptism at very young ages, where the youths are still minors and really have no understanding of the consequences of leaving the organization should they change their minds and choose another path.
 3) The organization practices a ban on blood transfusions, which has cost tens of thousands of lives, including many children who never had the chance to mature and make an informed decision about their life path
All of these 3 items are a serious violation of human rights, and we will not stop reporting on these issues until we have won the battle against undue influence.
So – if you want to live and let live – we are fine with however you wish to practice your faith. But if you wish to associate with Jehovah’s Witnesses, know that you are not part of any kind of humanitarian organization whatsoever.
As for your comment on JW being first on the scene in a disaster – this is not the case. I spent many years in RBC and relief work, and while I greatly enjoyed this, we were not doing the general public any service at all. Witnesses love to tell those stories, but they are exaggerations of the truth. The only times we ever helped any “wordly” people was when it served our own interests, such as when we repaired the home of an official in Antigua in exchange for the release of construction items held up in the local port. Individual Witnesses might help their non-JW neighbors, but the organization does absolutely nothing unless it benefits their own interests.
Now that I have left, I have seen how “worldly” persons with no agenda freely give to everyone, with no strings attached, regardless of their religious affiliation. There are good and bad people everywhere, and JWs are no exception. But as a whole, the organization does absolutely nothing to contribute money or aid to the world in general – the only help the “brotherhood”. And often they do it in exchange for money from various insurance companies. During hurricane Sandy on the East Coast, JWs received extensive help from the RBC, but ONLY with the understanding that when they received their insurance payout, the funds were to be handed over to Watchtower. And Watchtower paid for NONE of the labor – it was all volunteer JWs who did this work. I know this for a fact, as I was involved
Give some thought to these things, they are absolutely true, and they are based on factual information, not on “nasty” or “dogmatic” assertions.
Sincerely,
JR
Reply
 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 25, 2016 at 9:07 pm
 
David:
“…… looked at other religions and so called bible followers with a view of disproving the JW’s beyond doubt all I found was nothing but hypocrisy, or they kept saying give me some money.”
The WT is also saying give me some money:
Stephen Lett admits income/expenditure shortfall as he reminds Witnesses to donate “valuable things”:http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/stephen-lett-admits-incomeexpenditure-shortfall-as-he-reminds-witnesses-to-donate-valuable-things
Watchtower has created a child’s game where the whole object of the game is to donate money to them:http://jwsurvey.org/child-abuse-2/the-friday-column-watchtower-facing-financial-stormwaters
In every monthly internet broadcast from jw dot org, at least one part of the program involves a request for financial assistance, and this is from an organization that has a history of denigrating other religious entities for passing a collection plate during church services.
Reply
 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 25, 2016 at 9:11 pm
 
David:
The aging JWs are asked to hand over their estates, their valuables, their life insurance and investments. The young among the JWs are encouraged to demonstrate their love for Jehovah by depositing their ice cream money in the contribution boxes at the Kingdom Halls:http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/cough-up-kids-watchtower-needs-your-ice-cream-money
There are ATM machines at conventions and assemblies in various locations and credit cards are accepted as well. Letters have been sent by the GB to the congregations asking JWs to commit to donating a set contribution every month. Any funds in excess of what is required to maintain a Kingdom Hall are to be sent to the WT.
Perhaps you are not aware of these things. If you have been led to believe that by not passing a collection plate JWs are identified as the true religion……….think again.
“Try live and let live instead of trying to stir hatred.”
It is interesting that you should state this when the WT’s famous strategy to attract new converts is by denouncing other religions.
Reply
 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 25, 2016 at 9:43 pm
 
David:
Watchtower is at it again: Inheritances and Assets:http://ex-jw.com/watchtower-is-at-it-again-inheritances-and-assets
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 April 25, 2016 at 9:48 pm
 
Watchtower’s attempts to redirect the assets of elderly and infirm members to the Society’s coffers to the detriment of biological heirs.
Reply
 
 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 25, 2016 at 10:23 pm
 
David:
Some more about the WT and money:
– Why is there always a Deficit at the Circuit Assembly of Jehovah’s Witnesses:https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=APb1RpfjCrA
– Circuit Accounts Servant Confesses how the SCAM WORKS:http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/62001/circuit-accounts-servants-confesses-how-scam-works?page=1&size=20
Reply
 
 
 JBob says:

 April 26, 2016 at 6:12 pm
 
YMMV, David. I found your posting intriguing as it is a contradictory posting–here you post a diatribe about the failings found within a small sampling of church groups you visited and explored yet a few sentences later it states JW’s don’t post negative views and comments about churches.
Also, when I have sat listening to d/f notices being read, rarely do I recall hearing, “Brother Nomore is disfellowshipped for attitude unbecoming of a good JW” it usually reads “for conduct unbecoming”. Perhaps I had too many Jack Daniels or Jim Beam’s that night, but I think that’s what I heard?
And, regarding the missing solicitation of donations…I suppose the power of suggesting one donate their entire estate or pitiful life insurance proceeds to the Watchtower (not the local congregation, even), sell sentimental jewelry items, etc and donate the proceeds is not solicitation?
You can take the whore out of Babylon, but you can’t get Babylon out of the whore, meaning, the Watchtower practices are at the cutting edge, the bleeding edge, of getting blood from turnips.
Reply
 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 28, 2016 at 7:04 pm
 
David:
It seems you didn’t get a copy of the November 2015 Watchtower:https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20151115/donations-worldwide-work/:
“It is also possible for you to send donations directly to a legal entity that is used by Jehovah’s Witnesses in your country. To learn the name of the primary legal entity used by Jehovah’s Witnesses in your country, please contact the branch office. The address can be found on http://www.jw.org. The types of donations that you can send directly are the following:
OUTRIGHT DONATIONS
Donations via electronic bank transfer, debit card, or credit card. In some branches this is also possible using jw.org or another designated website.
Donations of cash, jewelry, or other valuable personal property. Include a letter indicating that the cash or the item is an outright donation.
CONDITIONAL DONATION ARRANGEMENT
Donations of cash with the condition that it can be returned if needed by the donor.
Include a letter stating that the donation is conditional.
CHARITABLE PLANNING
In addition to gifts of money and valuable personal property, there are other methods of giving to benefit Kingdom service worldwide. These are listed below. Regardless of the method or methods you would like to use, please first contact the branch officethat serves your country to see which methods are available. Since legal requirements and tax laws vary, it is important to consult qualified tax and legal advisers before choosing the best way to donate.
Insurance: A donation made by specifying an entity used by Jehovah’s Witnesses as the beneficiary of a life insurance policy or a retirement/pension plan.
Bank Accounts: Bank accounts, certificates of deposit, or individual retirement accounts set up as a trust or made payable on death to an entity used by Jehovah’s Witnesses in accord with local bank requirements.
Stocks and Bonds: Stocks and bonds donated to an entity used by Jehovah’s Witnesses as an outright gift or by means of a written agreement to transfer on death.
Real Estate: Salable real estate donated to an entity used by Jehovah’s Witnesses, either by making an outright gift or, in the case of residential property, by reserving a life estate to the donor, who can continue to live in the residence during his or her lifetime.
Gift Annuity: Money or securities donated to an entity used by Jehovah’s Witnesses under an arrangement where the donor receives a specified annuity payment every year for life. The donor may receive an income-tax deduction for the year in which the gift annuity is established.
Wills and Trusts: Property or money may be bequeathed to an entity used by Jehovah’s Witnesses by means of a legally executed will or by specifying the entity as the beneficiary of a trust agreement. This arrangement may provide certain tax advantages.
As the term “charitable planning” implies, these types of donations typically require some planning on the part of the donor. To assist individuals desiring to benefit the worldwide work of Jehovah’s Witnesses through some form of charitable giving, a brochure entitled Charitable Planning to Benefit Kingdom Service Worldwide has been prepared in English and Spanish. The brochure was written to provide information on a variety of ways that gifts may be made now or later, such as through a bequest at death. The information covered in this brochure may not apply fully to your situation because of tax laws or other laws in your country. Hence, after reading the brochure, you should confer with your own legal or tax adviser. By using such methods of charitable giving, many have helped to support our religious and humanitarian activities worldwide and maximize tax benefits. If available in your country, the brochure may be obtained by requesting a copy from the secretary of the local congregation.
For more information, you may contact the branch office.”
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/3f9mte/once_again_jehovahs_witnesses_are_asked_to_donate/?
Reply
 
 
 Big B says:

 April 29, 2016 at 8:22 am
 
David,
While appreciating that religion is a firm anchor in today’s turbulent seas of troubles, does the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society truly provide that stabilizing influence?
All of the Watchtower’s woes come from their flawed doctrines and practices namely:
1. the 144,000 are a literal number and only those that are of this class can partake of the Memorial emblems;
 2. the doctrine or mention of “Paradise Earth” is no where mentioned in either the Hebrew or Greek Scriptures;
 3. the monthly counting of time on a publishers record card is absolutely indefensible and no where mentioned in the Bible;
 4. J.W.’s as a whole have absolutely no secular education and as a result have to take many underpaying jobs in order to make ends meet;
 5. although begging poverty the Watchtower just purchased property in Florida worth millions of dollars http://gotoby.com/news/article/2245/Watchtower-Buys-Former-FAA-Training-Facility-in-Palm-Coast-for-$7025000;
 6. the Watchtower has so many child molestation cases ruled against it world wide, for its flawed two witness policy, that they run into the 10’s of millions of dollars. Although the Australian Royal Commission vs Jehovah’s Witnesses (ARC on YouTube) prosecutor used Deut. 22:26,27 concerning the rape of a woman without witness was brought up in court, the elders and Brother Jackson (one of the Governing Body members) were made to look stupid in the eyes of the whole world for their pig-headed refusal to apply common sense to child molestation, and because of their stupidity not only are the congregations not informed of the child molester in their midst but the molester goes unreported to authorities as well thus placing the entire community at risk;
 7. and what finally did it for me, (after 55 years of involvement with Jehovah’s Witnesses) was their membership for over 10 years as part of the United Nations as a Non-Governmental Organization (NGO) as reported by the Guardian Newspaper (Oct. 8, 2001 & Oct. 15, 2001). As soon as the Watchtower found out that this article was being released they tendered they resignation from the U.N.! Just like a child with their hand caught in the cookie jar.
That should be more than enough proof that God is not backing this cult and has never backed it. Their throwing their founder Charles Taze Russell and his followers under the bus in the July 15, 2003 Watchtower study issue proves as much. The Watchtower is an AMWAY religion and a throwback to the Millerite Movement and the ‘Great Disappointment’ in the mid-19th century. The constant changing of “Truth” (the light keeps getting brighter and brighter) shows me that they are not supported by the infallible Holy Spirit emanating from the infallible God Jehovah.
David, following a delusional, doomsday cult that calls all religious organizations that support the U.N. a harlot (Babylon the Great) as far back as 1963, then joining it themselves for over 10 years; what does that make them? What does that make the rank and file that continues to support this “organization”? Does this show faith in Jehovah’s Kingdom and prove this is His spirit directed organization that the Governing Body claim at every opportunity?
Because of all of this, my friend, they are suffering the consequences of their bad judgement and lack of Jehovah’s favor, namely: lack of baptismal candidates, lack of money, an unexplained increase in partakers at the Memorial coupled with a lack of attendance at the same event, reduction of production in magazines as well as other literature and child abuse judgments world wide running into millions of dollars.
David please use your reasoning powers. Do your research and as Revelation 18:4,5 says:
” I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues; for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.…
David, you are not attached to an anchor of stability in a safe harbor but a millstone in a raging sea. The Watchtower is going down, faster than the Titanic, in an floundering that I would have never believed possible twenty years ago.
Remember, finding true Christian freedom truly makes you free; not serving some cult that has interposed itself between you and your FREE gift in Christ’s ransom sacrifice.
Continue to check us out, those in search of Truth are always welcome. 🙂
Reply
 
 Big B says:

 May 1, 2016 at 8:40 am
 
OOPS my bad: The article that shows Charles Taze Russell and his followers not having or being the instrument Jehovah used as a channel of spiritual food is in the July 15, 2013 Watchtower.
This also disseminated “New Light” in the form of a ‘time line’ showing what Christendom calls the “Rapture” where those who will rule with Christ will be taken to heaven before Armageddon starts. There will be NO members of the “little flock” around to help the “Great Crowd” survivors clean up the mess as they will be in heaven to complete the number of “144,000” ‘viceroys’ to help govern with Christ.
Because of their insistence of marking the correct answers in the study lesson, many of the friends, including the elders, missed the time line and the ‘New Light’ altogether. Why? The study article questions did not reference the time line once. I call that hiding the “Truth” in plain sight. A very Neat Trick, indeed! 🙂
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 May 1, 2016 at 10:59 am
 
“Rapture”? What rapture?
 JWs vehemently deny that they believe in the rapture theology expounded by Christendom yet according to the July 2013 Watchtower which you cited:
“The gathering will be complete when the anointed who are alive at the end of this system of things receive their final sealing and then are taken to heaven.”
Rapture? What rapture?
Reply
 
 Big B says:

 May 1, 2016 at 3:30 pm
 
Hi Dee2:
I always look forward to reading your comments. That silly time line definitely shows the final sealing and “removal” of the Anointed ones before Armageddon strikes. Then there is a ‘pregnant pause’ of unlimited duration before the separation of the sheep and goats. Then the big show (Armageddon)!
We used to make fun of those in Christendom who believed in people leaving the earth to go to heaven (they called it the Rapture).
Now, it occurs to me, that it looks like J.W.’s are now invested in the same sort of doctrine that they once vehemently renounced. Interesting, very interesting. 🙂

 
 
 
 
 
 
 Average Joe says:

 April 25, 2016 at 11:55 am
 
@DAVID. Being an active JW myself and an elder, I must admit that on the whole I have not come against hatred against JWs, quite the opposite in fact. I’ve always been brought up to believe that apostates hate our guts and, quite frankly, this is what I experienced first hand as a kid in the 70s with the activists outside our hall. However, as a reasoning adult and a thirst for justice, I’ve asked many questions here, voiced my concerns and almost always been answered in a kind, frank, understanding way.
 I doubt I will be convinced NOT to believe in God or to go over to the evolution camp like Lloyd, but the gaping flaws in the JW org just can’t be ignored, neither can the hypocrisy. Seeing very unchristian qualities manifested from fellow elders and what boils down to heartless disregard for anyone who doesn’t live up to WTS standards (or worse still, their own) makes me even more sure that God has removed his spirit from the WTS, if it was ever there at all. I’m at a stage in my life like Ray Franz was, as I’m coming to realise by reading his first book. I’m still active as an elder because I want to defend my friends against cretins who act like glorified policemen instead of loving shepherds. I have a very zealous wife who just brushes the inconsistencies away so there’s no reasoning with her and basically I don’t want to put my a strain on the marriage so that’s a sacrifice I make.
 I think you’ve missed the who point of this site if you think it’s purpose is to stir hatred. Might I suggest you watch the video of a number of apostates confirming the exact opposite.
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 April 25, 2016 at 12:28 pm
 
Average Joe,
 Just a note – evolution does not equal atheism as some may think, they are not one and the same.
Reply
 
 JBob says:

 April 26, 2016 at 6:16 pm
 
Thanks, dee2–I concur.
Reply
 
 
 
 Tracey says:

 April 25, 2016 at 12:48 pm
 
David I am intrigued how you can be an elder in the congregation but yet believe it does not have God’s spirit? That just does not sound right.
Reply
 
 Tracey says:

 April 25, 2016 at 12:50 pm
 
Sorry David I ment Joe
Reply
 
 Outandabout says:

 April 25, 2016 at 2:38 pm
 
I’m really impressed with your stickability, Tracey. Standing up and defending your view in such a controlled way. You’re going to make a fine Atheist. You go girl!!
Reply
 
 
 
 Average Joe says:

 April 25, 2016 at 3:18 pm
 
Believe me Tracey I have been in several where that fact has been evident. The one I am in now is a lot better but there are still self-righteous individuals who seek to impose a higher morality than God’s own standards.
 I was referring to the org as a whole. Even Geoff Jackson admitted in the ARC hearings that he didn’t believe they were God’s only spokesmen on earth.
 The more hypocrisy I see in the organisation makes it more difficult for me to reconcile my duties as an elder. The WTS GB refers to us as the rank & file, whilst they don’t put into practice anything they preach. Look at how the majority aren’t good speakers (yet ordinary individuals applying the counsel from the old TMS are much more accomplished speakers), they warn about showy display of ones means of life yet wear expensive jewellery and watches on the JW Broadcasts, they blatantly lie about winning awards when they themselves have PAID to enter a COMPETITION and PAID to engrave then receive the supposed awards (check the Telly Awards site for their T&C and you’ll see they class it as a competition), how’s that being no part of the world.
 As I previously stated, when having to justify my position to other visitors on this site, awakening affects people in different ways and I like the social aspect of my congregation. You don’t like that? Sorry. At least I don’t hide child abusers or support the WTS and their horrendous policy on child abuse. They may well take away my privileges if they find out what I really think but that’s a small price to pay for being a decent human being and having a clean conscience. The GB can’t say the same!
Reply
 
 Tracey says:

 April 25, 2016 at 10:06 pm
 
Perhaps it’s time for you to step down as an elder. It sounds too hypocritical for you to be doing what you doing. Surely doing what u doing will not have God’s favour either way. You need to then go be true to yourself some where else. I have been exactly where David was and it will take a lot more than these texts to actually bring our reasoning across. You have to start with yourself, what are your motives, what is in your heart? Are we doing things for the right reasons? No organisation is perfect. No one on earth is perfect. Even in Jesus day the disciples had to be corrected. We living in a disfunctionall world. As for the shunning of a brother the Scriptures says one should not even eat at the same table as someone who calls themselves a brother….. read the Scripture 1 Corinthians 5:11 it goes as far as to say remove the wicked person among yourself. It is specifically talking about a person who calls himself a brother. I agree it does sound harsh and un loving but are we to ignore this council because it upsets people. Remember the Scriptures are there to reprove to set matters straight.
Reply
 
 Victor says:

 April 26, 2016 at 2:42 am
 
1 Cor 5:11 states: “But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a FORNICATOR or a GREEDY person or an IDOLATER or a REVILER or a DRUNKARD or an EXTORTIONER, not even eating with such a man”
so…. one becomes wicked simply for not believing the changing interpretations of the bible of the governing body?
do not you realize that is the indoctrination that takes you to equate those who do not believe in the Governing Body to bad people?

 
 
 Average Joe says:

 April 26, 2016 at 12:00 pm
 
@TRACEY. Sorry but I draw the line at you becoming my judge and jury saying that I lack God’s favour. Maybe you should call the GB and let them know he is communicating with you too. Oh I forgot, you’re a woman, so they wouldn’t let you on the body! 🙂
Seeing as you brought that wonderful scriptural gem up, tell me what you think it means “anyone calling himself a brother”. In what context was this? The congregation or in the family circle? If one is then removed from the congregation, how is he still called a brother, especially if that one has disassociated himself from the organisation first?
 I suggest you have a look at the Watchtower 1st August 1974, pages 466-473 “Maintaining a balanced view of disfellowshipped ones”. It points out that an individual who was once disfellowshipped for immorality, then gets marries and raises a family with the woman so how can he still be considered disfellowshipped if he no longer is committing the sin he was disfellowshipped for?
 If you were referring to me, then once again I ask you to get down from your self-appointed seat at God’s right hand and stop judging me as wicked. You don’t know what’s in my heart. I can assure you that if I didn’t care deeply for my friends and family in the organisation then I would have left a long time ago. Plus as John said, I don’t really fancy all the hassle it would put my family through if I did leave. So which do you think is the more loving course for me to take?
 There have been numerous occasions where Jehovah removed his spirit from his people (Acan’s light fingers spring to mind) which resulted in many dying so are you surprised that this can happen to day in JW congregations? If you’re in denial, I can remember two entire congregations being disbanded in my lifetime for corruption. Plus the Italian Bethel Branch Overseer was stripped of his position last year and sent home packing with no privileges for much the same thing. Many Irish COs have been removed from their positions and brothers from the mainland and overseas brought in to replace them.
 And if you’re excuse is that these are isolated incidents and that such a thing would happen in Bethel, especially not within the GB, then we have nothing more to say. Oh and I have very good friends who used to be in NY Bethel who are now travelling servants and they told me about numerous cases of homosexuality within just NY Bethel and that’s supposedly the house of God that children are supposed to visit instead of Disneyland according to HRH Tony Morris III 😉
Awakening is not a nice position to be in, especially if you are a genuine Christian with a desire to help others but my dedication was to God and not the WTS and I promised to read his word the Bible, not the Watchtower publications with ever changing doctrines and procedures.
 I can understand I may have hit a nerve but that doesn’t give you the right to judge. I can quote Jesus’ words at you here if you doubt I’m right!

 
 
 
 Markie says:

 April 26, 2016 at 12:14 pm
 
I would love to ask old tight pants boy Geoffrey Jackson if he felt like he compromised when he said it would be presumptuous to assume they were the sole spokesmen of God on earth today. I would assume I would be branded the apostate just for asking that question.
Reply
 
 Tracey says:

 April 26, 2016 at 11:08 pm
 
Joe
 I was not judging you. I was simply making a statement. We should be serving God not fellow man. It comes across that you doing things to please your family and friends instead of taking a stand for what you believe. I know that a congregation can lose God’s spirit. But if I knew a congregation did not have Jehovah’s spirit I would not want to be there.

 
 
 Freed Mason says:

 April 28, 2016 at 9:31 am
 
You probably would, I think Anthony Morris III was the tight-panter, pinky ringer.
 Good old Geoffroid would never squeeze into a pair.

 
 
 
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 25, 2016 at 4:54 pm
 
Tracey
There are quite a few readers of our site who are awakened Jehovah’s Witnesses, but who maintain their responsibilities as elders in the congregation. There are also Bethel brothers in the same position.
The reason for this has much to do with the fact that leaving the organization means walking away from your family, your friends, everything you have known your entire life. So while it might seem difficult to believe for you, it represents the lesser of two evils for these persons. They struggle with knowing this is not an organization sanctioned by God, but they follow a course which disrupts their lives and family the least.
In a perfect world, they could just walk away from the religion with no consequences and move on with their life – but as you know, rejection from family, friends and the organization is a stiff penalty, and is a severe violation of human rights. Jesus never sanctioned such behavior (of the organization) and certainly did not sanction the many transgressions of the organization, such as policies which cause harm to children when the police are not immediately notified in cases of child abuse. Jesus never sanctioned child baptism or indoctrination, and if you believe in the Bible, you know that he was not baptized until the age of 30, a fully mature adult.
Please give this some thought, and try to separate your personal feelings from fact and evidence. It took me 46 years to wake up – a lifetime inside this organization. Your thoughts and comments are welcome here, and I hope we can help you establish a better understanding of our viewpoint, while listening to yours.
Sincerely
JR
Reply
 
 JBob says:

 April 26, 2016 at 6:46 pm
 
@JR – there are always effects, if not consequences, for any actions. Specifically, if the Watchtower lifted the consequence, or possible penalty, of family isolation, more persons would feel the freedom that is afforded by most governments to freely choose your spiritual beliefs.
Prior to the many “exit” support groups arising, many mental health treatment providers did not understand why leaving JW’s or other high-control groups was such a stress factor. In their view, persons were free to join a church, walk in on a Sunday, have a fat lady jump up and shout enough to scare the demon out of them, run to another church the next week and no severe consequences of shunning.
I’ve heard JW’s suggest try another congregation if one doesn’t “fit”–but that option is non-existent because the elder body ensures a paper-trail of recommendation letters and responses to inquiries of status goes answered with all the vindictive mess or “perceived flaws”.
I experienced a very jealous and vindictive set of elders send letters and statements resulting in staining my reputation although there was no evidence, no private/public discipline proceedings, and no public knowledge misconduct on my part. The sinister part is these elders never approached me to ask, or investigate, the validity of the charges.
It increasingly became like the man who suspects his wife is having an affair because he can smell the familiar scent of cologne of the other man on her, yet he can’t quite understand why the scent is familiar until he discovers it is his best friend with whom the wife has been trysting. In this case, diligent study of the Watchtower literature, meditation, prayer, field service, etc meant nothing, because the new congregation leadership would consistently snub me and never answered why or were available to be asked why. [as someone else posted, usually, the leadership would take me into empty territory when I did field service/ministry]
For the sake of my sanity, I stepped away and I shall remain away. It was/is a colossal waste of time and energy–resulting in frustration and stress.
And, frankly, every time I encounter JW’s I become disgustingly aware of deceptive practices and manipulation–emotional or facts. A prime example would be the statements of the leader in front of the ARC.
Do they think they’re the prime spokesperson for God–in print, yes; in lectures, yes; in court, no. And, this lie–this perjuring–falls under the “it’s okay” heading “theological warfare”. It’s okay to lie for the Watchtower, Inc, but don’t you kids dare lie to parents or elders.
This is definitely NOT the moral foundation I want for my household.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 JWIntellect says:

 April 25, 2016 at 12:23 pm
 
Prince will be greatly missed. I was a fan of his music and was thrilled that he accepted the faith of the JW religion when I was an indoctrinated member. I bought and listened to his album 3121 and was strengthened and fortified in my faith in the religion by his songs “The Word” and “Get On The Boat”. You could really see the affect the religion was having upon him through these two songs. I strongly encourage anyone to listen to this album if they haven’t already. On the other hand, there was also some questionable music (from a JW viewpoint) on the album like “Black Sweat” which he won an award for. The song “Planet Earth” from his album Planet Earth is also a faith inspired song by him. But it was great music nonetheless.
Reply
 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 25, 2016 at 9:44 pm
 
Wonder why Prince didn’t marry a JW?
Reply
 
 Darnell says:

 April 27, 2016 at 5:44 am
 
The host is a mamby pamby bioch.
Reply
 
 
 
 Julien says:

 April 26, 2016 at 10:19 am
 
Prince was an amazing talented man. I questioned very early in my youthful jw days how if men wrote the bible could it be considered divine. I was told that Jehovah inspired them if this is the case and Jehovah (a god who cannot create hands for itself) did not write anything down then is inspiration not from god/divine? If yes then prince was very blessed with divinity and the spirit of god. But im sure you’ll argue its satan’s. Whats wrong with jehovah that it cant accept responsibility for anything?
Reply
 
 Lara West says:

 April 26, 2016 at 1:01 pm
 
In the end of all of this does it really matter? He was a very talented man and the qualities he had as an individual shined. Whatever he learned from the Jehovah’s witness faith was his own business. Why waste all this emotional energy on the subject ? He has passed away, show some respect and dignity and stop wasting your time and energy arguing about all of this. I myself was raised as a JW but I’m not “indoctrinated” or “controlled” we are all born with a free will according to the scriptures. I have struggled through the years to make the truth my “own” and it hasn’t been easy. I myself have seen alot of hypocrisy but in the end all will have to answer for their actions. Things do get exposed and come to light eventually. I do despise people who profess to be ” Christians ” but there are alot out there who do, love is proved rightoues by its works and from that aspect we can draw our conclusions from there. Spiritually and religion are two separate things and that is what I myself have cultivated throughout the years and that has helped me keep a balance in my life but that was because of the scriptures if it was men I was serving forget it! Yes there are flaws even huge ones but yet the scriptures do say not to put your trust in ” men” or nobles to whom no salvation belongs. That is very plain and simple and Jehovahs Witness will tell you the same. I’ve observed alot througout my lifetime but I have to say that as a whole this brotherhood or association if you will is very candid, open and transparent. These are imperfect people who try the best to follow the scriptures closey, those who do not then goodbye. I really see valid points from both sides but overall because I’ve made the truth my own I’m not stumbled by the actions of this “Organization” that is the beauty of it all. Jeses said do not be overrightouess in much he condoned that type of attitude. So all Jehovah’s Witnesses need to reexamine their faith and what motivates them as professed Christians and hopefully their conduct as individuals will show that they have. I just stick close to the scriptures and that proves to be a safeguard and it has gone pretty well for me personally regardless of others. If it was men that I serve then I wouldnt be able to express myself in this manner, thank God because that has removed a huge burden for me and others who strive to imitate Jesus’s faith. Jehovah’s Witness or not be respectful and let the subject rest in peace as Prince is now.
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 April 26, 2016 at 1:33 pm
 
Hi Lara:
“….. I’ve made the truth my own….”
What is this “truth” which you have made your own? Please tell us so that we can understand what you mean.
Thanks.
Reply
 
 Grace says:

 April 26, 2016 at 2:27 pm
 
Lara,
I don’t think anyone here has disrespected Prince like you are accusing everyone of & yes you are right, his faith was his own business. Have you thought of that when you go out Witnessing? That you are interfering with someone else’s business when it comes to their faith?
Reply
 
 
 
 Tracey says:

 April 26, 2016 at 11:23 pm
 
Thank you Lara. You couldn’t have put that any better.
Reply
 
 
 Tracey says:

 April 26, 2016 at 11:23 pm
 
Thank you Lara. You couldn’t have put that any better.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Lara West says:

 April 26, 2016 at 1:57 pm
 
A thorough and systematic study of the scriptures and striving to apply all of the Bible principles I’ve come to know. I’ve come to see how the Bible is vindicated through many decades and associate with people who do the same.
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 April 26, 2016 at 2:14 pm
 
Hi Lara,
“I’ve come to see how the Bible is vindicated through many decades…..”
Could you please give us some specific examples of this?
Thanks.
Reply
 
 
 
 Lara West says:

 April 26, 2016 at 3:43 pm
 
Wow so much to say my experiences are varied I wouldn’t know where to start. I’m not shy to share my story and it would take some time to reply.
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 April 26, 2016 at 4:19 pm
 
Hi Lara,
“……it would take some time to reply.”
I hope this won’t be a deterrent for you to share your experiences as doing so will help us understand what the “truth” is which you have made your own and how/why you have come to see how the Bible is vindicated through many decades.
Reply
 
 
 
 Lara West says:

 April 26, 2016 at 5:06 pm
 
I respect people’s boundaries and find it mortifying when people are intrusive and pushy and I don’t believe in forcing my beliefs on others. I’m very careful an sensitive to others viewpoints and religious backgrounds. I just simply share very tactfully when appropriate how I have benefited in my study ot the scriptures. l truly care about people. I have battled with bouts of severe anxiety and depression myself so Im very sympathetic to others. I’ve been in the depths of despair and have experienced many tragedies in my life time so if I see an opportunity to comfort someone by just talking without bringing religion into the picture fine, If the situation is appropriate then I introduce scriptures that have helped me in times of crisis. We all need to keep in mind that religion is a very sensitive topic to alot people and that is where discetion is a must. I have no interest in one upping anyone I talk to, I truly care about others and if I can help them somehow with a word or an act of kindness then I’m very happy at the end of the day. i guess I consider myself a person who just loves people and what I saw in Prince was his generosity and true love for others as well. He really helped many people throughout his life and that is what made him truly shine. It is about humanity and the common struggle we all experience together. I’m sorry grammar is not my best subject but I hope you can understand what I’m trying to say.
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 April 26, 2016 at 6:12 pm
 
Good for you Lara, that your acts of kindness are motivated by love for people and not by your wanting to convert them to the JW religion despite your referring to it as “the truth”.
Reply
 
 Outandabout says:

 April 26, 2016 at 7:00 pm
 
I too would just LOVE to see where the Bible has been vindicated through many decades. It’s oh so easy to say it has, but nobody can show anybody where. Is it too much to ask? I’ve counted 135 end of the world predictions so far and among the first was made in 375CE when it was stated that their was “no doubt the Antichrist has already been born”. The people making these predictions no doubt when out on a limb and were TOTALY convinced. All this coming from the Bible, so……please tell me and in language we can all understand and then, hey presto!, everyone’s a believer.
Reply
 
 
 
 Tara says:

 April 26, 2016 at 6:40 pm
 
Hi Lara,
 Didn’t Jesus talk to people out of love. He had fellow feeling for others. I hope you can keep doing that. It is a wonderful thing to care for people and thats what Christ wanted.
Reply
 
 
 
 Enuffsenuff says:

 April 26, 2016 at 7:05 pm
 
I’ve come in a bit late to the response by average Joe to Tracey. Top stuff in your reply. Every has their own reasons for doing things and you have the right approach, different to mine, but yours alone and good for you. Your experiences are priceless as are all the contributors for the most part. This site is to express views on a common problem the behaviour of the Corporation Watchtower and its effect on so many people albeit far too many that are horrific. It is a common problem that we often get here, shoot the messenger, rather than look at the message and understand what is being said. Reading motives of others from what are emails, is very very hard. So keep contributing Average Joe I like what you are saying.
Reply
 
 Average Joe says:

 April 27, 2016 at 11:28 am
 
Why thank you kind sir! Glad somebody got something from my comment.
 Take care.
 AJ
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 April 27, 2016 at 3:40 pm
 
Hi AJ I do wish you were an elder in my cong or even my circuit. The problem is that we don’t know awakened ones who stay to do us good. Actually it gives people like me, hope that there are bros in positions of care who stay and may help in the longrun.best wishes Mrs Doyle aka Ruthlee
Reply
 
 Average Joe says:

 April 28, 2016 at 12:12 am
 
Thanks so much Ruthlee. If you make make some cookies like Mrs Doyle with regular cups of tea, I might just have to change circuit! 🙂
I’m sure there are plenty of chaps like me, scattered amongst the congregations. It’s hard work, swimming against the tide but the solid friendships you make and knowing that you can help defend others makes it worthwhile.
 It’s the easiest thing in the world God asks us: to show love to one another. It might sound corny but it’s true. It doesn’t cost anything and it makes you feel better. Some people just seem focused on criticising others or making sure they live up to what THEY think God’s standards are. They can’t be really happy with themselves.
 Although we only know each other via this site Ruthlee, please accept a big virtual hug and know that you ARE appreciated and valued as a person and for your contributions on here too.
 AJ
 PS. Do those cookies have cociane in them? I mean chocolate! (That’s a reference to “Father Ted” in case anyone doesn’t know and starts freaking out!)
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 April 28, 2016 at 3:15 am
 
go on go on go on! ruthlee

 
 
 
 
 
 
 Enuffsenuff says:

 April 26, 2016 at 7:38 pm
 
Dear Outandabout, the Bible comments “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father”. So there is your answer- no one, no one except Jehovah knows the time not even Christ. So if you have seen claims or read alleged endings, then you have have been seeing claims that come from sometimes sincere, often smart arsed men/ women who don’t know what they are talking about. But no such claim from the Bible. All it does is give features to look for (let the reader use discernment) meaning, if you don’t think it’s coming good for you. You’re about as right as everybody else who think they know a date. I had a friend who wanted to know why God made mosquito’s. He wouldn’t accept that a God would do that so he just drifted off with illicit affairs and heavy drinking and life went downhill. My brain boggles at it all I just keeping killing the sods and hoping for the best.
Reply
 
 Outandabout says:

 April 26, 2016 at 10:41 pm
 
Hi enuffsenuf…yyeeah…..this day and hour stuff….pretty vague and ‘get out of jail free’ type of statement, isn’t it. Right up there with “the lord moves in mysterious way’s” and “you have to have faith”. If the Bible is such truth…well, try presenting any of it in a court of law as evidence.
 But anyway, no matter. If that’s what you believe, then that’s ok. Y’know, even when I become boss of the world I won’t outlaw religion as long as it’s the harmless variety. Who would want to take it away from that dear little old lady who has lost everyone she ever had and turns up to church every sunday and is greeted warmly by the vicar who takes her hand and is genuinely interested in how she’s doing. The highlight of her week. Not me.
Reply
 
 Enuffsenuff says:

 April 28, 2016 at 7:47 am
 
Dear Outandabout, you wanted an answer I gave you one, you didn’t offer any refutation, just a bit of grumble that it was all get out of gaol stuff. Reminds me of the experience of students one time in a university lecture room while waiting for the professor of philosophy to rock up and give his lecture. The student/s wrote on the the blackboard “question authority”. Just a fun little joke. The students all sat there very quietly and looked on when the old Prof walked in and he stood there for 3 minutes or so, staring at the words. They wondered what he would do or say. He said nothing, but wrote underneath: When authority answers will you listen?
 The truth seems to be that some folk like to ask all the questions but never really want an answer. Kinda reminds me of the dog that chases cars, he always hopes to hell he never catches one. If he does what will he do with it?
Reply
 
 Outandabout says:

 April 29, 2016 at 1:29 am
 
Hi enuffisenuf. My original question was ‘how has the bible been vindicated in the last few decades’? I wanted to be told exactly where in the bible that is, but I doubt whether anybody can do that.
 Well, here’s something to ponder on…given that the distance of a light year is 10 trillion km’s and we can currently view the universe for a distance of 13 billion light years (phew!) why has god placed all that infrastructure out their in order to support what would amount to a microscopic speck ( the earth) in the scheme of all that? We eventually found out the earth is not flat, then that it wasn’t at the centre of our galaxy, and now are we on our way to finding out the earth and us mean naf all? It kinda looks that way, but hey…all I’m asking for is a simple crack of thunder and a hand pointing down from the sky.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Searcher says:

 April 27, 2016 at 9:55 am
 
I responded to Tracy in an earlier post on this thread concerning doomsdayers, but I just feel like saying it again. It needs to be said, so here goes.
There are a lot of people out there that believe they see little green men, Sasquatch, and the end of the world. Bless their little heart. I hope it makes them feel OK. Just don’t include me in on that party. I’ve got a life to live and enjoy.
Me? I go by a this: The sun will rise in the east, it will set in the west, and the wheels on the bus will keep going around and around. Count on that as a fact! The world/earth will end sometime, but I don’t think it will be anytime soon. IF (big IF) the world comes to an end anytime during my life, then there’s basically nothing I can do about it, so I don’t let it worry me to a point of aching obsession. I’ll deal with it, if it happens. Otherwise, I will live and enjoy the remainder of my life’s ups and downs, not letting some crazy organization like the Watchtower take over what little was blessed to me.
Reply
 
 M Saurus says:

 April 29, 2016 at 1:06 pm
 
Beautiful sentiments, Searcher. Well put. I agree. That’s why I can’t understand so many here who are fed up with the WT org but still stay in.
Family? Anyone who would shun you for leaving is not your family. You will make new friends on the outside who are loyal even if you have different beliefs!
Life is too short to stay bound in an organization you can’t stand. Too short to pretend to be someone you are not.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 RetroFusion456 says:

 April 27, 2016 at 1:47 am
 
BAD NEWS. Looks like frickin’ Governing Body’s gonna get a handful of Prince’s money and later pretend that nothing ever happened with the begging of donations. Darnit!
http://www.ibtimes.com/who-gets-princes-money-jehovahs-witnesses-could-stand-gain-singers-estate-2359228
Reply
 
 Stirring Awake says:

 April 27, 2016 at 4:51 am
 
For the GB to take ANY money bestowed upon the organisation would be a stellar personification of their money-hungry hypocrisy. He made his fortune through ways that would never be condoned by the GB. They would abhor his lyrics, his sexual overtness and his “tight pants” amongst many other worldly traits. His entire career is soaked to the core with the ways of those deemed “worldly” – so if they took any of his money, no matter what their reasoning or way of explaining it is….I would be absolutely lost for words. I mean the child abuse cases are one thing, but this would be blatant, in your face and completely open hypocrisy that would stumble many. They couldn’t possibly accept any of it without a legitimate explanation and even then, it would be a major stumbling block for many. That’s not faithful OR discreet. That’s just hypocrisy to the tenth degree and there’s no possible way to dissect that into something palatable or acceptable for the R and F.
Reply
 
 Searcher says:

 April 27, 2016 at 9:31 am
 
You said it! Praise Jehovah and give us the money! Don’t ask any questions.
Reply
 
 
 
 Outandabout says:

 April 27, 2016 at 1:33 pm
 
Relax, Retro. They won’t get anything. Prince left no will and so by the laws of the state, the money goes to nearest blood relatives.
Reply
 
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 27, 2016 at 2:54 pm
 
RetroFusion
This is nothing more than unfounded speculation. The website offers this statement:
“While it is unclear whether he arranged a will, Prince has few living family members, leaving many to speculate that he may have left some of his estate to the Jehovah’s Witnesses.”
Obviously this site knows absolutely nothing about Prince’s finances or will, and has no documentation to back up the admitted speculation. Let’s find the facts, not the fiction
JR
Reply
 
 
 
 Stirring Awake says:

 April 27, 2016 at 4:38 am
 
Completley OT comment incoming, but I had to put it out there to get it off my chest:
The week starting Sept 19 the new congregation study book will be “God’s Kingdom Rules! “where we will all be able to gain a deeper appreciation for our spiritual heritage.”
The fact that the book is misleading through the smoke and mirror changes to JW history is bad enough but to hear that being read, knowing all other congregations would get the same line made my stomach churn.
Sorry for going OT…
Reply
 
 Searcher says:

 April 28, 2016 at 8:46 am
 
The GB and WTS writers are masters of revisionist history. They control the documents and presses, as well as, what the rank and file can and cannot read through threat and fear. Doesn’t surprise me in the least. And they call it “The Truth”? My big butt on fire!
Reply
 
 Stirring Awake says:

 April 30, 2016 at 8:40 am
 
That they are Searcher! Unfortunately, it will take a lot more diligence and scrutiny to ascertain what subtle changes are being made from now on. With everyone being coerced into electronic mediums and using the JW Library app, they can make updates and changes at any time and no one is any wiser to the changes made. They just update their app or download their electronic copies and go on their merry way. The JW Library app is constantly being updated – not just major version updates in the app stores, but in the app itself it has a cloud symbol which is an indication to users to download the latest minor version update to that publication.
 It’s such a sly way to get changes pushed out without anyone truly knowing what the updates are.
 Back in the day, with hard copies, you could do a reprint, but that was a costly exercise. Now, it is easier, cheaper, simpler and much more inconspicuous to the R and F just what ‘changes’ are being made. The GKR “history book” has had multiple updates in the app since its release. The only way I’d know for sure what changes were made would be to compare word for word the hard copy version from the convention release against the electronic app/ebook versions.
 I don’t have the time or inclination to be bothered with that and I highly doubt someone deep in the org would bother either as they would simply take it at face value.
 GB = Velociraptor claws
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Julien says:

 April 27, 2016 at 9:29 am
 
Read IBT article. It doesnt say anything about WT taking money. If he didnt leave a will including the WT I don’t see how they’ll stand to benefit from any of Prince’s money. Prince has extensive blood relations. There’s no way WT is going to see a penny of that money without their name in a will.
Reply
 
 
 Eric Arthur Blair says:

 April 27, 2016 at 10:24 pm
 
Here in Australia they are reporting that prince left no will and his entire estate will go to his sister.
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-27/prince-sister-says-pop-icon-died-without-a-will/7361568
I believe she is a “devout Christian” but not JW, so I hope she feels about the watchtower the same as we do and they don’t sweet talk her into handing some money over.
Of course they would find a way to justify taking his dosh – making “wise use of unrighteous riches” or some other twisted scriptural reasoning. They wouldn’t hesitate. And of course the R and F would be oblivious (like their membership to the UN) or think that prince’s timely death is spirit directed – bailing out the Borg from the “apostate lies” of child abuse victims, whilst simultaneously proclaiming that the same governments are eating the flesh of Babylon the Great and stripping her of her material wealth in fulfilment of bible prophecy! If prince was a regular contributor this actually might be one revenue stream which suddenly dries up for them (no pun intended.)
When it’s JWs in the dock it’s a satanic attack, when everybody else is in the dock it’s Jehovah’s divine judgement. I hope they don’t get a cent.
Reply
 
 
 Enuffsenuff says:

 April 28, 2016 at 7:50 am
 
Dear Outandabout, you wanted an answer I gave you one, you didn’t offer any refutation, just a bit of grumble that it was all get out of gaol stuff. Reminds me of the experience of students one time in a university lecture room while waiting for the professor of philosophy to rock up and give his lecture. The student/s wrote on the the blackboard “question authority”. Just a fun little joke. The students all sat there very quietly and looked on when the old Prof walked in and he stood there for 3 minutes or so, staring at the words. They wondered what he would do or say. He said nothing, but wrote underneath: When authority answers will you listen?
 The truth seems to be that some folk like to ask all the questions but never really want an answer. Kinda reminds me of the dog that chases cars, he always hopes to hell he never catches one. If he does what will he do with it?
Reply
 
 
 Ream says:

 April 28, 2016 at 8:30 pm
 
@ab
Reply
 
 
 Ream says:

 April 28, 2016 at 8:52 pm
 
@Average Joe
I know How hard it is to keep serving while awakening. I also serve in the congregation and it’s hard and I wished I could step down but it would be hard on my family. Fortunately my wife sees through and is aware of the none sense that our organization has reached. The good think about having a “position” in the congregation is that it gives you a credibility and allows you to raise questions for reflection without shocking anyone. Questions that the brothers would never consider if there were coming from someone who was a “simple” publisher or an “apostate”. When I have parts at meetings, I always turn everything around compassion, mercy, empathy and the message of Christ. I Never talk about loyalty, obedience and threat of destruction at Armageddon and certainly not stimulate the friends sense of guilt for never doing enough. Some of my friends could not take it anymore and decided to step down. I begged them not to as so many brothers and sisters are silently suffering and they could be a comfort to them…..especially intellectually considering our last understanding on the term generation which is an insult to our intelligence. Stay strong and let’s keep helping our friends within our congregations. I feel sorry for what will happen in 30 years from now when the vast majority will have no choice but to come to the realization of how wrong we were.
Reply
 
 Average Joe says:

 April 29, 2016 at 12:05 am
 
@Ream
 I concur. Very good points. After all, Jesus’ message was about love and compassion. He didn’t go guilt tripping his followers that they weren’t doing enough.
 In 30 years? There will be “new light” on the generation to say that it applies to people who lived 100 years after the Kingdom was established in 1914 or something along those lines I bet!
 Thanks for your comment.
 AJ
Reply
 
 
 M Saurus says:

 April 29, 2016 at 1:02 pm
 
If you and your wife both see through the nonsense, why don’t you stop the charade and leave?
Reply
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 29, 2016 at 1:21 pm
 
M Saurus
I think Ream explained why he is still there fairly precisely. While it is not ideal, the alternative is extremely painful and likely something they are not ready to tackle. Sort of the lesser of two evils.
I completely understand his viewpoint. There are many more who are faders, which is the next step down, or away from the organization, as it were. This is also a very difficult situation, as you are not disfellowshipped, but you have still lost your entire friendship network.
No matter how you slice it, it’s a bad position to be in, and is one of the reasons why we write about such things, to raise awareness of the dangers of high-control organizations like Watchtower
JR
Reply
 
 
 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 29, 2016 at 1:07 am
 
@Enuffsenuff:
“I had a friend who wanted to know why God made mosquito’s. He wouldn’t accept that a God would do that so he just drifted off with illicit affairs and heavy drinking and life went downhill.”
Aren’t there also persons who believe in god who also “drift off with illicit affairs and heavy drinking”? Aren’t there JWs who believe in god who get disfellowshipped for these very things?
“So there is your answer- no one, no one except Jehovah knows the time not even Christ.”
Which is why Jesus made the following false predictions:
Mark 14:53-62:
“And they led Jesus away to the high priest; and with him were assembled all the chief priests, the elders, and the scribes…………. Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” Jesus said, “I am. AND YOU WILL SEE THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE POWER, AND COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.” (emphasis mine).
Who was Jesus speaking to when he spoke these words?
 The high priest, (chief priests, elders and scribes) did not see this happen as Jesus said they would.
Jesus promised that those “standing here” listening to him would not taste death:
 Mark 8:34 to 9:1:
“And He summoned the crowd with His disciples, and said to them…………For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels. And Jesus was saying to them,“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are STANDING HERE WHO WILL NOT TASTE DEATH UNTIL THEY SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD AFTER IT HAS COME WITH POWER.” ”
Who was Jesus speaking to when he spoke these words?
 Jesus was referring to the “adulterous and sinful generation” who were alive in the early 1st century CE when these words were spoken. Jesus expected that some of his audience would be alive when the “kingdom of God” came with power.
Matthew 24:3,4, 34:
“As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately……….And Jesus answered and said to them……. Truly I SAY TO YOU, THIS GENERATION will not pass away until all these things take place.”
Who was Jesus speaking to when he spoke these words?
 Jesus was referring to persons who were alive at the time he spoke those words. He is recorded as referring to specific individuals who were alive and listening to his words.
Reply
 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 29, 2016 at 1:10 am
 
If Jesus words and deeds are taken at face value in their correct historical perspective rather than in the light of what some people choose to believe about him it is clear that Jesus was expecting the world to end during his generation.
Almost 2000 years ago Jesus came with an urgent message at the beginning of his ministry because he believed the world was going to end during his generation:
Mark 1:14 – 15:
“Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.” ”
Jesus was urging people in his day to accept the message of the gospel that now, very soon, God was going to intervene in history and bring in his Kingdom.
Jesus was not the only one expecting the imminent end of his age. There were teachers, prophets, and just regular ole folk who thought similarly. Among these persons was John the Baptist who baptized Jesus. Mark portrays John as a prophet in the wilderness, proclaiming the fulfilment of the prophecy of Isaiah that God would again bring his people from the wilderness into the Promised Land (Mark 1:2-8). When this happened the first time, according to the Hebrew Scriptures, it meant destruction for the nations already inhabiting the land. In preparation for this imminent event, John baptized those who repented of their sins, that is, those who were ready to enter into this coming Kingdom. According to Luke 3:1-20 and Matthew 3:1-12, almost 2000 years ago, John preached a clear message of apocalyptic judgment to the crowds that came out to see him.
All of this apocalyptic/end of the world preaching by Jesus and other Jews had to do with the Jews’ history. The destruction of Jerusalem and the Exile meant the disruption of life and the breaking up of institutions whose original form was never fully restored. Much of post-biblical Jewish theology and literature was influenced and sometimes governed by a hope for such a restoration: a return of the dispersed; the appearance of a Davidic heir to throw off the shackles of foreign domination and restore Israel’s sovereignty; the gathering of one people around a new and glorified Temple.
In 539 B.C., Cyrus the Persian, the new ruler of the world, permitted the Jews to return to their land. Many thought the long-awaited restoration had arrived, but such a hope was soon dashed. … Foreign nations continued to run roughshod over the land ofIsrael: Greece, Egypt, Syria and Rome. A strange and foreboding reality therefore set in. Israel, though now returned to the Promised Land, was still in exile.
Jews in Palestine had been under direct foreign domination for most of the eight centuries prior to the time it is said Jesus was born. The Promised Land was conquered in succession by the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Persians, the Greeks, the Syrians, and the Romans. Jews resented the idea that they were answerable to a foreign power. They were, after all, the chosen people of the one true God of Israel, the God who had agreed to protect and defend them in exchange for their devotion. This was the land that he had promised them, and for many of them it must have been more than a little distressing, both politically and religiously, to know that ultimately someone else was in charge.
There was the belief that there would be an imminent intervention of God on behalf of his people, an intervention to be modelled on earlier acts of salvation as recorded in the Hebrew Scriptures. Quite soon, God would reassert himself and bring this world back to himself, destroying the forces of evil and establishing his people as rulers over the earth. When this new Kingdom came, God would fulfil his promises to his people. This point of view, commonly called “apocalypticism”, was an ideology that tried to make sense of the oppression of the people of God. Jewish apocalyptic thought was evident in a number of writings both in the Hebrew Bible (e.g. book of Daniel) and from other sources (e.g. Dead Sea Scrolls).
This has been a long off-topic post, there is certainly more which I could state. I encourage you to research the history of the Jews, in particular, how Jewish apocalyptic thinking influenced the end of the world prophecies in the Bible – you may find the following resources to be useful:
https://ad1914.com/2015/10/27/the-babylonian-exile-shaped-the-future-of-prophetic-speculation-doug-mason/
http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/pdf/1999_ehrman_jesus-apocalyptic-prophet.pdf
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 April 29, 2016 at 1:11 am
 
http://virtualreligion.net/iho/
Reply
 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 29, 2016 at 6:45 am
 
Some more resources:
INTRODUCTION TO THE OLD TESTAMENT (HEBREW BIBLE):
– https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh9mgdi4rNeyuvTEbD-Ei0JdMUujXfyWi
– http://oyc.yale.edu/religious-studies/rlst-145
Reply
 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 29, 2016 at 6:46 am
 
INTRODUCTION TO THE NEW TESTAMENT HISTORY AND LITERATURE:
– https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL279CFA55C51E75E0
– http://oyc.yale.edu/religious-studies/rlst-152#overview
Reply
 
 
 
 M Saurus says:

 April 29, 2016 at 8:25 am
 
@Tracey – if you are so gung-ho for the “truth” then please explain to all of us what you are doing on a website such as this one, not only reading but commenting as well. You know very well that even though your comments are positive and are defending the Witnesses, you are in complete violation of the rules for being here.
What congregation are you in? Do your elders know you are frequenting a well known “apostate” website and are participating in a discussion with disfellowshipped and disassociated people? You are not even supposed to speak to us.
You have a lot of nerve coming here to “defend” the “truth” – you are a total hypocrite for being on this site – if you are still a “devout” witness.
Reply
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 29, 2016 at 9:10 am
 
M Saurus
While I agree with you that Tracey is breaking the JW rules, isn’t that what we really want? Of course, we are not interested in trolls, but I believe (so far) that Tracey is sincere, and this might be the first step in the waking up process. Many of us have been there, trying to defend the indefensible. My hope is that something will click one day and she will begin to understand the control she is under, and she can make a decision to make her way from the indoctrinating influence which have affected so many. It is not easy, with so many family and friends to consider, and this is indeed the real glue that keeps so many attached to the organization.
We continue to welcome Tracey and many others who are still inside the organization, and will keep an open dialogue with such persons.
Cheers
 JR
Reply
 
 Winston Smith says:

 April 29, 2016 at 10:51 am
 
Excellent point John Redwood. “Trying to defend the indefensible.” That’s almost a necessary requirement in order to wake up. Once we realize it cannot be done (unless you completely ignore reason and logic) then we are ready to start looking at the truth about the “truth” with an open mind.
WS
Reply
 
 M Saurus says:

 April 29, 2016 at 11:02 am
 
JR – yes, if she is having doubts, looking for kindred spirits, etc here then of course she is welcome. Even if she is not, she’s still welcome, I’m sure.
She is defending it, though – and in not such a nice way in some of her posts. Maybe she is defending it to herself subconsciously.
I am just asking her to explain why, if she is really still a devout JW, she thinks it’s ok to come here. Most others here who are still “in” are in for their own reasons but still agree that it’s BS. Tracey seems to still really be in and is still drinking the Kool Aid.
No offense to anyone. Just would like her justification.
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 April 29, 2016 at 11:55 am
 
M Saurus,
Waking up from JW indoctrination (and we know just how brutal JW indoctrination can be) is a process with a time span that varies from person to person – for some persons it takes years for them to deprogram themselves, for others it takes months.
The first step in the process is
 trying to defend the indefensible a.k.a. Cognitive Dissonance:
People try to defend the indefensible when they are cornered and the fear of being proved wrong starts to well up inside them. People get confused with facts, as it unsettles them and creates extreme cognitive dissonance. This cognitive dissonance then needs to be settled. Most people end up using confirmation bias to reaffirm their original view. We hold onto our cherished beliefs for dear life, because the thought that we might have been wrong can be too much to bear.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 M Saurus says:

 April 29, 2016 at 11:16 am
 
@Lara West – you said “If it was men that I serve then I wouldnt be able to express myself in this manner…”
You do know, don’t you, that you are NOT free to express yourself? That you would be in real trouble in your congregation if your beloved spirit-inspired elders knew you were on this site? Do you know how quickly they would turn on you if they heard you express the views you have here – never mind that it’s a site they absolutely forbid you to be on?
Reply
 
 
 Stirring Awake says:

 April 30, 2016 at 9:13 pm
 
This article from Examiner appears heavily skewed, almost to the point where I’d easily believe (based on the way it’s written) that someone from the Writing Committee in Bethel had a hand in composing it. How many writers/journos use scriptures to defend their article? Almost every major news site has been hyperlinked to show the “false rumours, lies, heated debates” argument.
http://www.examiner.com/article/prince-s-religious-beliefs-false-rumors-lies-heated-debates
Does anyone know if Ruth Houston is a witness, or is associated with them in some way?
Reply
 
 
 ClosetApostate says:

 May 1, 2016 at 4:14 pm
 
Each time I see the words ‘why don’t you be true to yourself’ I roll my eyes and I cringe. What one person calls being true to oneself isn’t the way another person will call being true to oneself. Some times I get the feeling the person saying ‘why don’t you be true to yourself’ is very selfish and might as well say, “oh, why don’t you just go and get a divorce and seperate from family and friends?” “Be true to yourself.” That can be the reasoning of a me monster.
Reply
 
 M Saurus says:

 May 2, 2016 at 9:06 am
 
Sometimes you are better off in the long run without the so-called “family and friends” – what type of family and friends are they that are only family and friends if you are a JW? They would never speak to you again if you express any doubts about the truth or decide to leave the org. Again, not worth keeping.
Reply
 
 ClosetApostate says:

 May 3, 2016 at 9:56 am
 
The only family I have.
Reply
 
 ClosetApostate says:

 May 3, 2016 at 10:14 am
 
I meant to say, – what kind of family are they? You ask. My answer – The only family I have and I accept them for the way they are. I’m not willing to lose them over a stupid religion. I can agree to disagree. I understand I don’t need to be upset. I understand they have their limitations because they aren’t awake. I don’t hate them. I understand them. I’m on this web site because it makes me feel better. It feels good to be normal. I really don’t have any complaints and I’m not mad. I’m really not. People on this web site are AWESOME. I have received much help by being here. I don’t feel hate but it is an interesting experience for me now that I am awake. I feel relieved. I’m so glad, thankful, happy I’m not alone. This is an interesting, fulfilling journey for me now. I feel like we have become adults and they are children because they are indoctrinated. I love them I don’t resent them or hate them. I am sorry I didn’t mean to be so negative in my first post. It felt good to express myself but I meant so much more than what I wrote. I find insightful people on this site. I enjoy it so much I felt like making a comment. That’s awesome.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Searcher says:

 May 2, 2016 at 10:13 am
 
You are correct ClosetApostate. The expression, “why don’t you be true to yourself” seems to be a little flippant considering what could happen to you. Breaking from this religion is like a divorce from family if a person were brought up in this religion. I truly feel for those who are in that situation. It must be like not waking up from a nightmare. I wasn’t raised in this religion, but it cost me a great deal of pain in the form of divorce from my ex-wife.
However, in America we say, “Freedom isn’t free!” Freedom may cost someone life itself. Just read up on what happened to the heretics of the middle ages. They spoke their mind and got burned at the stake for breaking from the central church dogma of that time. Freedom of religion (and maybe from a mind-control cult in this case) may cost someone a great deal of pain. It’s what you are willing to bear to have that freedom. It takes a lot of bravery to stand up against tyranny like the GB and local Kingdom Hall leaders.
Reply
 
 
 
 Elmer Groom says:

 May 1, 2016 at 8:09 pm
 
Prince was baptized in 2003. Could you see any of us not being disfellowshipped for a proformance like this? At least taken to the spiritual woodshed…(Purple Rain)Superbowl Halftime Performance – Prince – Veohhttp://www.veoh.com/…XGYhx25k?h1=(Purple+Rain)Superbowl
Reply
 
 
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News Bulletin: Secret Watchtower documents once again demanded in new US court case.
avatar 
Posted on April 25, 2016

campos-pedophile
Jehovah’s Witness and pedophile Gonzalo Campos

Only last week, we reported upon the latest development in the lawsuit that abuse survivor Jose Lopez is bringing against the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.
Lopez was abused by Jehovah’s Witness Elder Gonzalo Campos, and alleges that Watchtower’s controversial policies on dealing with accusations of child abuse (policies which were heavily criticised by the Australian Royal Commission last year) significant contributed towards Campos’ ability to abuse him with apparent impunity.
Lopez’ lawsuit is still underway, but another survivor of Campos’ abuse has also come forward, and put the same allegations to a court of law.
His name is Osbaldo Padron.
As journalist Dorian Hargrove reports in the San Diego Reader, Padron alleges that his abuse occurred in 1994, after the events documented in the Lopez lawsuit, by which point the Watchtower organisation was already aware that Campos was a serial child rapist. Nevertheless, Watchtower elders allegedly failed to involve law enforcement and allowed Campos to continue serving as an elder, thus granting him the opportunity to carry out his attacks on Padron.
As Hargrove reports:

Padron filed his lawsuit in September 2013. Since filing…church officials and their attorneys have stonewalled in turning over documents, despite a March 2015 court order requiring them to do so.
Those who have followed the long-running story of Watchtower’s deepening child abuse scandal will remember this ruling, which took place as part of the ongoing lawsuit from Jose Lopez. Part of Lopez lawsuit alleged that, not only were Watchtower fully aware of Campos’ abusive acts, and had done nothing about them, but crucially that this fit a far larger pattern of such behaviour from Watchtower: a systemic failure to confront child molestation accusations in an effective manner, and a deliberate policy of not bringing such accusations to the attention of the authorities.
It was alleged that documents held by Watchtower prove this accusation; documents that list tens of thousands of alleged Jehovah’s Witness child molesters that the religion has failed to report or act upon, but has instead simply filed away.
The existence of these documents is no longer in dispute. During the Lopez lawsuit, the Judge agreed that these records, should they exist, were vital to proving the degree of Watchtower’s awareness of the problem, and their culpability in ignoring it.
In response, Watchtower’s lawyers admitted that these records exist, but ultimately refused to produce them, even going so far as to refuse a direct order from the court to do so.
As reported last week, an appeal court has confirmed that Watchtower must produce these records in the Lopez case or face severe consequences.
Now, it appears that the Padron case will be walking the exact same legal path with one slight difference; in Padron’s case, it appears that Watchtower did actually release some documents, but had carefully redacted them so heavily that they were useless.
Reports Hargrove:

“…Watchtower produced documents that redacted the names of victims, elders, perpetrators, congregations (as well as the addresses and contact information of the congregation), towns where abuse occurred, law enforcement agencies that investigated claims, and other material,” reads a newly filed court document. “The redactions are so extreme that Plaintiff cannot make use of them. Plaintiff submitted a sampling of these redacted documents to the discovery referee and this Court, who each agreed that the redactions are so broad as to undermine Plaintiff’s ability to use them.
“This court determined the requested documents were relevant, unprivileged, and that production would not be overly burdensome. This court also specifically addressed third party privacy, stating: ‘all personal, identifying information pertaining to any third party/victim should be redacted from the documents to address any privacy concerns.’”
He also reports that Patron’s legal team will be going before the court on Friday 29th April to make the following motion (bold is mine:)

In a court motion, Padron’s attorney, Irwin Zalkin, says the court must get tough with the church and issue terminating sanctions compelling church leaders and their attorneys to follow orders. If granted, terminating sanctions would impose fines on the church for each day it fails to turn over the documents. If the documents are still not produced after a reasonable amount of time, the judge could order dismissal of the case and render judgment against the Watchtower, the Playa Pacific Spanish Congregation, and Campos.
So it looks as though Padron’s case is going to walk the same path as the Lopez lawsuit. Watchtower is going to be faced with a choice: Hand over documents that could be as explosively damaging as the documents released in Australia last year that proved the religion had been hiding over 1000 molesters in its Australian congregations…
…or face multiple millions of dollars in damaging court fines, at a time when the religion is showing all the signs of serious financial concerns.
Either decision is going to come with a flood of harmful negative publicity that will further the strain the credibility of Watchtower leaders like Steven Lett when they claim that such reports of negligence and cover-up are simply “apostate lies.”
One wonders if Watchtower’s Governing Body would be brave enough to repeat this sweeping dismissal under oath before a legal process.
Oh wait. That’s right. They are not.
 
covert-fade-signature
 
 
 
 
Further reading:
Original San Diego Reader article by Dorian Hargrove
Documentary “Jehovah’s Witnesses and Child Abuse: Is there a problem?” by Lloyd Evens
Emmy award winning news website Reveal News is conducting an extensive investigation into Watchtower’s child abuse scandal. Their articles can be viewed here.
The Australian Royal Commission Investigation into The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Official Government website with transcripts and evidence available to download and view, including the transcript of testimony given by Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson. Video footage of the above testimonies can be found here


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← Superstar Prince Pronounced Dead: World in Shock Over Passing of Celebrity Jehovah’s Witness
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81 Responses to News Bulletin: Secret Watchtower documents once again demanded in new US court case.

 Peter van der Brink says:

 April 25, 2016 at 7:00 am
 
Any ‘world’organisation with a manager like Steven Lett, should be amazing to survive. So this ‘governing body’ runs a communistic system without any reality. It is like 1989 DDR times. All one way propaganda is not more helping. Close to bankrupt.
Reply
 
 Join-Stay25Yrs-Leave says:

 April 26, 2016 at 1:43 am
 
Communism is a socioeconomic order structured upon the common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money, and the state.
WT system has nothing to do with communism. There must be a different word you’re looking for.
Reply
 
 
 
 Tara says:

 April 25, 2016 at 7:03 am
 
Slowly the victims are coming forward.
I’m a little confused. Can someone enlighten me.
 It say’s : This court also specifically addressed third party privacy, stating: ‘all personal, identifying information pertaining to any third party/victim should be redacted from the documents to address any privacy concerns.’”
If the court said to do this then was the WT simply following orders or was it so extreme that they may as well of handed over a blank piece of paper? I’m confused as to where the legal line was to be drawn.
Reply
 
 Doc Obvious says:

 April 25, 2016 at 8:20 am
 
Watchtower is editing the documents so much that it is rendered useless in a court of law. In other words, a cover up inside a cover up. That is why these cults survive in the United States. There is so much cover ups that the United States judicial system causes more problems than it solves.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 April 25, 2016 at 4:32 pm
 
Nice waste of tax payers money then.
Reply
 
 
 
 Mike B says:

 April 28, 2016 at 2:04 pm
 
They can remove 3rd party information to allow others to remain anonymous. So, they can redact that Fred was spoken to. All good.
But the WT society has removed:
 Congregation (not a 3rd party requiring anonymity)
 contact details for the congregation
 the names of police officers involved (official duty and does not require anonymity… in fact, the opposite)
 etc
The WT society is effectively pretending to cooperate – Theocratic Warfare! – while making the content so unusable to the plaintiff that it’s effectively worthless.
Reply
 
 
 
 James Broughton says:

 April 25, 2016 at 7:08 am
 
The Goddard report in the UK is also going to make for interesting reading. The Society will no longer be able to hide behind the “apostate lies” excuse but will have to face up to its misdemeanors. Delving into its history will reveal more that it bargained for.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 April 25, 2016 at 7:20 am
 
I mentioned these reports to a witness friend who hardly goes to meetings and she said ‘oh that’s journalism for you.’ I had to shake my head. They have no idea. They are in such a bubble and even the ones here who are fading still live in a bubble to some degree.
Reply
 
 Chiafade says:

 April 25, 2016 at 10:15 am
 
Yep that’s journalism alright. Aren’t the watchtower and awake called journals? Therefore the writers are considered journalists. They also write sensationalistic stuff like “this time of the end” and “the end is so close brothers”. They, like all sensationalistic journalists, do it for the reaction.
These are actual reports with court documents to back them up. The JWs will lump the true and false all together into one and reject everything wholesale. Doing exactly what they accused me of when I brought up these horrendous actions by watchtower. They said ” well these are things that Jehovah can clear up in HIS time not YOURS. Why throw out the baby with the bathwater? “…because the baby’s full of shit, nuff said.
Reply
 
 Grace says:

 April 25, 2016 at 2:46 pm
 
Chiafade,
What an excellent comment. I never really thought about the sensationalism of the WT & Awake mags like that before. Especially considering none of it can be proven & you’re left relying on the deluded grandiosity of the writers that come up with these so-called holy spirit guided interpretations of scripture.
My understanding is that the GB don’t write this stuff. Someone in the writing department comes up with it & they just approve it in their weekly GB meetings. So who is actually guided by the holy spirit?
Reply
 
 Chiafade says:

 April 27, 2016 at 1:45 pm
 
” So who is actually guided by the holy spirit?”
The answer to that is the legal department and the accounting department.
You know, like when the tax laws changed in the late 80’s early 90’s. They couldn’t legally charge for their literature anymore so holy spirit inspired them to switch to a donation arrangement.
Or more recently, many countries require that any school teacher (in Watchtowers case conductor or overseer) has to have a background check done. Low and behold the JWs had a theocratic ministry school and governments would now require that elders get a background check. How did holy spirit respond? By “inspiring” a change of the meeting name from “school” to “our Christian life and ministry” while maintaining a similar format.
Holy spirit usually doesn’t inspire a change until human governments set a legal precedent. Legal precedents are like a door for holy spirit. It can’t and won’t act without them.

 
 
 
 
 Ready 4 to Fade says:

 April 25, 2016 at 5:41 pm
 
Yet, when journalism brought the Catholic Church to its knees in 2002 for child abuse, Watchtower was more than happy to jump on the condemnation bandwagon.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Gary says:

 April 25, 2016 at 7:53 am
 
There are documents held by Watchtower that relate to child sex abuse and their perpetrators & they refuse to hand them over . . . why?
 The most senior member of the governing body distanced himself from involvement with the Watchtower, why?
 Eventually, I am convinced, all will be revealed.
 No one is condemning innocent JWs but nevertheless ” I was just following orders” just doesn’t cut it.
Reply
 
 idkwhattocallmyself says:

 April 25, 2016 at 10:18 am
 
You got it 100%, we should all confront our still in relatives and ask them if they are “OK” being accessories to this and supporting Watchtower’s legal obfuscation to protect molesters and rapists.
Reply
 
 
 Ready 4 to Fade says:

 April 25, 2016 at 5:44 pm
 
My favorite quote in Spotlight: “If it takes a village to raise a child, you could also say it takes a village to allow one to be abused.” There is complicity in silence, everyone should be mandated by their own moral sense to report such a travesty.
Reply
 
 
 
 Gary says:

 April 25, 2016 at 8:03 am
 
If you’re conscience is a God given gift then don’t let anyone else abuse it, because as you can see, they will not be able to recall.
Reply
 
 Chiafade says:

 April 27, 2016 at 1:46 pm
 
” So who is actually guided by the holy spirit?”
The answer to that is the legal department and the accounting department.
You know, like when the tax laws changed in the late 80’s early 90’s. They couldn’t legally charge for their literature anymore so holy spirit inspired them to switch to a donation arrangement.
Or more recently, many countries require that any school teacher (in Watchtowers case conductor or overseer) has to have a background check done. Low and behold the JWs had a theocratic ministry school and governments would now require that elders get a background check. How did holy spirit respond? By “inspiring” a change of the meeting name from “school” to “our Christian life and ministry” while maintaining a similar format.
Holy spirit usually doesn’t inspire a change until human governments set a legal precedent. Legal precedents are like a door for holy spirit. It can’t and won’t act without them.
Reply
 
 Johnship says:

 May 2, 2016 at 9:10 am
 
I still take wife to meetings and can confirm they still refer to it as school.when they split into two schools.also i do nothing now but was asked if i would like to rejoin the “school” ..
Reply
 
 
 Johnship says:

 May 2, 2016 at 9:10 am
 
I still take wife to meetings and can confirm they still refer to it as school.when they split into two schools.also i do nothing now but was asked if i would like to rejoin the “school” ..
Reply
 
 Chiafade says:

 May 2, 2016 at 10:26 am
 
I have no doubt that they still refer to it that way in many halls. Old habits die hard. But you’ll notice that the kingdom Hall signs have been completely revamped and no mention is made of ANY school being conducted in that building. This is by design.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 wifibandit says:

 April 25, 2016 at 10:04 am
 
San Diego Superior Court (Civil)
Case Number: 37-2013-00067529-CU-PO-CTL
Reply
 
 Brent says:

 April 25, 2016 at 4:34 pm
 
Thanks
Reply
 
 
 Average Joe says:

 April 27, 2016 at 3:45 am
 
For Register Of Actions (ROA) visit:http://www.sdcourt.ca.gov/portal/page?_pageid=55,1641155&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL
Then: VIEW A CASE FILE
 (accept terms and pass test to prove that you’re a human!)
CASE NUMBER SEARCH
 COURT: 37
 YEAR: 2013
 CASE NUMBER: 00067529
To see a general overview of the case visit:http://courtindex.sdcourt.ca.gov/CISPublic/casesearch
CASE TYPE: Civil
 CASE LOCATION: San Diego
 CASE NUMBER: 37-2013-00067529-CU-PO-CTL
Reply
 
 Doc Obvious says:

 April 28, 2016 at 10:02 am
 
The ROA also has the ability to save a pdf file so that you can print it out. In that way, you can add it to your collection of JW CSA documentation.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 April 25, 2016 at 1:31 pm
 
The whole Governing Body should be on their knees in a perpetual vigil of prayer for several reasons: They should pray Prince leaves them all his hard earned cash so they can complete Warwick ,pay off their lawsuits and cheap suits. They could pay off the kids with a tidy sum of hush money without ouching their own personal stash. They should pray that their god loves a paradise in Warwick just for them and pull the drawbridge up so the nasty amharets cannot get a peak. They could start their own paradise driving around in little red corvettes. And their final round of prayer should probably be that god does not actually exist or He will punish them ALL for their sordid games, lying under oath and allowing children to get raped. would not want their Warwick paradise for one day. One day there will be justice and it cannot come too soon. Ruthlee
Reply
 
 RetroFusion456 says:

 April 27, 2016 at 1:46 am
 
BAD NEWS. Looks like frickin’ Governing Body’s gonna get a handful and later pretend that nothing ever happened with the begging of money.
http://www.ibtimes.com/who-gets-princes-money-jehovahs-witnesses-could-stand-gain-singers-estate-2359228
Reply
 
 Chiafade says:

 April 27, 2016 at 2:01 pm
 
So far there’s no will and no trust presented. Which means that under Minnesota state law his estate would default to his closest surviving family members. In his case his sister and other half siblings.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 April 25, 2016 at 3:57 pm
 
I was reading my Revised Standard Bible the other day and it was in Luke 21:8 where I realised this was referring to the Watchtower specifically. “And he said, “Take heed that you are not led astray: for many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he!’ and, “The time is at hand!’ Do not go after them. Why didn’t we see that? It was written there for us to see but our eyes were so blinded that we could not see it. When they were telling us that we were in the time of Christ’s Presence, which is pretty much the same as “I am he”, we were being set up just like Jesus warned. If anyone doubts and blames God, then they need to read this scripture again to really get the picture. In no way did Jesus want this to happen and he is not responsible for the damage that has been done. The warning was there. We just didn’t notice it.
We weren’t being guided by the Holy Spirit and neither were the elders. It was just a con. So don’t blame God for all of this. He did not do it. The real Holy Spirit still exists and so does God and Jesus Christ and they have not changed. And the Bible proves true even more and more than when we first got conned.
Reply
 
 Gary says:

 April 26, 2016 at 12:19 am
 
Many will come on the basis of my name saying Iam the Christ (Greek translation. . .anointed) food for thought indeed.
Reply
 
 
 BeenMislead says:

 April 26, 2016 at 9:07 am
 
Yes, Russell also actually published a volume of the “Studies In The Scriptures” containing date predictions and which was entitled: “The Time is at Hand!”.
But notice Jesus own words at Luke 21:8
“And he said, “See that you are not led astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he!’ and, ‘The time is at hand!’ Do not go after them.” – (Luke 21:8, English Standard Version)
This is what Jesus would have found Charles Taze Russell teaching when he did his inspection in 1919!
Would Jesus choose them to be his organization when they were essentially preaching “The Time is At Hand” when he himself specifically told his followers not to go after men making such claims?
Reply
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 April 26, 2016 at 2:56 pm
 
Yes, the caption seemed like nearly every Watchtower magazine cover to me. I could not believe the prophecy. My Bible was translated around 1890. It was spot on. Also their translation is crap. One needs to look into the history of the researchers of Westcott and Hort to find them as atheists and worse, and I mean worse (just do your research), who deleted passages from it. The blind leading the blind. Nothing more than a set up and a trap but none other than you know who. We were pawns of an evil force.
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 April 26, 2016 at 3:10 pm
 
My comment which is awaiting moderation could be because I made a comment about atheists. I have nothing against atheists, but I do have something against them when they try to re-write the Bible with no accountablility to the force behind it and that Bible is driven hard to be the best translation for good but gullible people.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Alice says:

 April 25, 2016 at 4:01 pm
 
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-prince-jehovah-20160424-story.html
At a Jehovah’s Witness hall, congregants remember Prince as ‘Brother Nelson’
This may have been the plainest room Prince spent time in as an adult.
 Auditorium A in the Kingdom Hall of the St. Louis Park Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses doesn’t have a dance club or a recording studio. The Jehovah’s Witnesses who meet in this small complex outside Minneapolis don’t even have any musical instruments except for a piano hidden in a closet that no one uses. The walls are various shades of beige. Nothing shines, and nothing is purple. Nothing about it says “Prince.”
That’s because in Auditorium A, Prince Rogers Nelson was not known as Prince, the music megastar, but as Brother Nelson, the Jehovah’s Witness. Here, one of America’s greatest sex symbols didn’t arrive in spandex and stilettos but in conservative suits and ties. He was often hard to spot among the congregation of dozens unless you were looking right at him. And that wasn’t the only way he blended in.
 Over the final decade of his life, Prince worshiped here because he was a fellow believer in the Jehovah’s Witness tenets: that Jesus was a savior but was lesser to God, that these are the final days of civilization, that the dead will be resurrected, and that the world will live under a global government lead by Jehovah, a Hebrew name for God. Among the St. Louis Park congregation, Prince wasn’t a celebrity but an equal in faith.
“He was accepted as our brother,” said congregant Josephine Parker, 74, on Sunday as the congregation gathered for its first meeting since Prince’s death. “He wasn’t treated as maybe the world would treat him.”
Hundreds of students, participating in the 27th annual High School Choir Festival at Disney Concert Hall in downtown Los Angeles, honor Prince with a rendition of “Purple Rain.”
Parker fondly remembered Prince as a gentle soul and a “mild spirit,” and his death last week at age 57 broke her heart. But, Parker said, “I look forward to the time we can welcome him back on the Earth.”
Prince was one of America’s most notoriously private celebrities, and few facts about his life were more beguiling than his conversion in 2001 to Jehovah’s Witnesses, a faith not recognized as Christian by Catholics and Protestants largely because Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe in the Holy Trinity.
 Jehovah’s Witnesses call themselves Christians, and they admire Jesus, but they don’t venerate the cross and don’t celebrate Christmas or Easter — or birthdays. They don’t gather in churches but in Kingdom Halls. They avoid political involvement and refuse to fight in wars.
 Over the last week, some fans and acquaintances have wondered whether Prince’s religious beliefs may have even contributed to his death, because Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe in taking blood transfusions for scriptural reasons. They do accept other medical treatments, however, and officials and people close to Prince have not released enough information about the singer’s health to substantiate any of those suspicions.
 Prince, who was raised as a Seventh-day Adventist, was converted — or at least helped along — by Larry Graham, the former bass player for Sly and the Family Stone.
“I don’t see it really as a conversion,” Prince told the New Yorker magazine in 2008. “More, you know, it’s a realization. It’s like Morpheus and Neo in ‘The Matrix.’”
Prince embraced the faith and even proselytized his neighbors around his Paisley Park estate in the Minneapolis suburbs, who were sometimes shocked to find the star on their doorsteps.
In Minneapolis, everyone has a story about Prince
 On the afternoon of Yom Kippur in 2003, a Jewish couple in Eden Prairie opened their door to discover the 5-foot-2 singer standing in front of them. Even though a Vikings football game was on, they invited him in.
“My first thought is, ‘Cool, cool, cool. He wants to use my house as a set. I’m glad! Demolish the whole thing! Start over!’” a woman who only gave her name as Rochelle told the Minneapolis Star Tribune.
 But Prince was there to proselytize them to become Jehovah’s Witnesses. “I said, ‘You know what? You’ve walked into a Jewish household, and this is not something I’m interested in,’” Rochelle told the newspaper.
 Prince reportedly replied to her, “Can I finish?” He stayed for 25 minutes and left a pamphlet.
 Prince’s adherence to the particularly conservative faith — which opposes same-sex marriage and premarital sex — also seemed paradoxical given his history as a gender-bending sex icon.
 When asked about his views on same-sex marriage and abortion in 2008, Prince tapped his Bible and told the New Yorker, “God came to earth and saw people sticking it wherever and doing it with whatever, and he just cleared it all out. He was, like, ‘Enough.’”
No contradiction seemed to exist for the Jehovah’s Witnesses at the Kingdom Hall in Minnetonka on Sunday. Steve Smedberg, 63, said in an interview, “He believed the same thing the rest of us believed. I guess he was willing to let the Bible be his authority.”
And in Auditorium A, Prince also seemed to have found a space in America where he might not be treated as some kind of deity. He arrived and left without fanfare at the group’s gatherings, which are called “meetings.” He contributed to discussion but never put himself at the center of attention. He never performed for the congregation, but he sang along with the prerecorded religious hymns like everyone else.
“Jehovah’s Witnesses want to be average, normal people. That’s my goal in life, to be normal,” Smedberg said. “He seemed to want to be a normal person.”
Anna Barry, who holds the title of “regular pioneer” in the congregation, remembered when Prince began arriving for worship meetings in the 2000s and participating in the study sessions where congregants discuss Scripture together.
 When discussing the importance of spiritual harmony during one of his early meetings, Prince remarked to the congregation that “if you were in a band and one of the instruments was out of tune, you’d stick out like a sore thumb,” Barry recalled.
 When Barry complimented Prince for his contribution after the meeting, Prince responded, “Thank you, Sister Barry,” and she was impressed he had learned her name.
“He felt like it was a safe place here,” Barry said.
Here are the artists Prince brought into the spotlight
 Prince often vanished from the congregation for long periods, apparently while he was traveling, and his fellow congregants didn’t seem to begrudge him, acknowledging the effect his musical gifts had on the broader world. They also said he apparently visited other Kingdom Halls when he was on the road.
 The last time Prince was seen in Auditorium A was on the evening of March 23 for an annual memorial held to mark Jesus’ death. Prince was wearing a suit and tie and had his Bible and songbook like everyone else, but he looked “pale and tired,” said Brian Steffen, a 69-year-old ministerial servant, the title given to selected men who undertake various operational duties in a Kingdom Hall.
 Eighty-two congregants, plus a few journalists, attended Sunday’s meeting after Prince’s death, where the primary topic of discussion was forgiveness and love. The group sang prerecorded songs with titles including “Loyally Submitting to Theocratic Order.” They also took turns reading from and discussing “The Watchtower,” the faith’s official magazine.
 Although Prince’s death had sent shock waves around the world, he was only briefly mentioned once at a gathering of people who actually knew him.
 See the most-read stories this hour >>
“Our brother, Prince Rogers Nelson, fell asleep in death last Thursday,” said an elder, Sean Barry. And that was it.
 He was just another faithful congregant, said Karla Mack, 54. “If he was here, he would be talking to you about the Bible and talking about Jehovah.”
But after the gathering broke up, Steffen, the ministerial servant, acknowledged the loss.
“I knew he was a genius at what he did,” Steffen said. “One time somebody came up to me after a meeting and said, ‘Brian, now you can say you sang with Prince.’”
Follow @mattdpearce for the latest national news.
 ALSO
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 How Coachella pulled off the Guns N’ Roses reunion
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Reply
 
 
 nullandvoidboy says:

 April 25, 2016 at 4:10 pm
 
Sorry Meredith….you can believe as you would like, but I’m sure more that some here would disagree and lump everything in the bible, with the “reality” of Greek mythology…..same kooky stories….different cultures
Reply
 
 Meredith J says:

 April 25, 2016 at 8:16 pm
 
Yes, I know nullandvoidboy, what I believe is in stark contrast to what others believe. Although once upon a time we all believed in the same thing. They can believe in their kooky stories about Greek mythology but reality is crazier than fiction in this case. I know I was off topic a little, but with so many being so disillusioned, especially on this topic, I wanted to share my thoughts as I felt it was important.
Reply
 
 Susannah says:

 April 27, 2016 at 6:15 am
 
I am not sure we all believed the same thing. I think we were told that we should believe the same thing. A choice was not an option, especially if you were born in.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Julien says:

 April 25, 2016 at 4:14 pm
 
Hypocrisy. Years of condemning the vatican and they are no different. There where always whispers, gossip but I never saw an adult really do anything about it.
Reply
 
 Gameisover says:

 April 25, 2016 at 8:41 pm
 
No,they are infinitely worse. Have they ever helped the poor? Orphanages, leprosariums, schools, hospitals, missions? This is what the Catholic Church has done consistently through the centuries.
 While 10% of their religious may have been corrupted, usually at the top, the other 90% were busy spreading the doctrine of Christ and bringing comfort and help to untold millions.
 And regarding child abuse, percentage wise, they are also infinitely worse.
Reply
 
 Alice says:

 April 26, 2016 at 11:08 am
 
Gamesisover, You’re right. I have a coworker. He and his grown son and daughter use their vacation time to go to orphanages and help out. He brings pictures of the visits to work after each trip. There are nice people out there. On one visit he was escorted by a guarilla police force who protects the orphanage.
Reply
 
 
 Julien says:

 April 26, 2016 at 7:05 pm
 
True jw’s dont amount to a hill of beans but as far as rationalizing goes that 10percent is still unexcusable. The catholics main goal was always conversion and gainning numbers. It was always about strategy and domination. Maybe 90 percent did right but it doesnt change the inquisitions, the destruction of natives nor any other actions thereof rationalized by bringing gods kingdom to earth. Even now these days nothing excuses them from forbidding women (extremely poor women) from taking birth control (just to name one issue). Jw’s catholics etc to me they are all the same controlling, mysinogistic, destructive and oppressive forces that need to be kept in check. I dont mean to offend you but i dont think they are any better or worse than any other religion.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Kathryn says:

 April 25, 2016 at 4:16 pm
 
Watchtower is a law unto themselves. They will have to be fined until they are on their knees before they will cooperate. I feel the reason Prince is in good standing with them is maybe because they hope to get a fortune from him. I guess.
Reply
 
 
 Ready 4 to Fade says:

 April 25, 2016 at 5:50 pm
 
My favorite quote in Spotlight: “If it takes a village to raise a child, you could also say it takes a village to allow one to be abused.” There is complicity in silence, everyone should be mandated by their own moral sense to report such a travesty.
Reply
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 April 25, 2016 at 8:23 pm
 
They didn’t count on being given an unforgiving time frame to produce the information. Thank you for the article Covert, I think this is big news.
Reply
 
 Ready 4 to Fade says:

 April 25, 2016 at 10:35 pm
 
They’ve had 3 years from what I can tell!!
Reply
 
 
 
 Wip it says:

 April 25, 2016 at 9:17 pm
 
We had a news item that said that prince was worth 800 million & didn’t have a will, i don’t believe the will bit, but it also speculated that the church (WT) could receive some money, i believe he has a sister, start fighting honey, WT will be salivating over that,
Reply
 
 Join-Stay25Yrs-Leave says:

 April 26, 2016 at 2:10 am
 
“The news” knows nothing. Minnesota Intesticy Laws are clear and very specific. If Prince had no will, his entire estate will go to his sister. There in no basis for a legal challenge of this. By all accounts she is his only legal heir.
If someone else, like the WT or his ex-wife produce a will, it will have to go through probate first. This scenario could be challenged by his sister.
In the USA, churches do inheret monies from the estates of members who die.
Reply
 
 Stupid4Jesus says:

 May 2, 2016 at 6:57 pm
 
Yes, Money from death is how much of their money is made. Nothing lack that last bribe for the generation that would not pass away to ensure life everlasting. This game has been played before there was religion.
Reply
 
 
 
 mimilove says:

 April 26, 2016 at 6:32 am
 
i kinda hope he didn’t have a will because he would have been convinced to leave it to WT.
Reply
 
 
 
 Willows says:

 April 26, 2016 at 1:48 am
 
What would happen in a congregational committee hearing, if the accused submitted evidence in writing that he redacted for his benefit?
They would say is this guy repentant? “No way Hosea.”
Same applies on the world stage as an organization.
People hearing this and the courts are not stupid.
The actions of an organisation can be read by all looking on.
They are their own worst enemy to keeping disciples.
Their actions cause disciples to leave the organization.
“Then they shun them.” Actions speak volumes.
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 April 26, 2016 at 4:19 am
 
superb points willow! ruthlee
Reply
 
 
 
 mimilove says:

 April 26, 2016 at 6:45 am
 
good news! I have been having serious discussions with my husband for over a year now and he has now weakened enough to actually just read the bible instead of WT version of it. He has come to some pretty good conclusions and admitted that WT has it all wrong in several areas! I asked how he was still going in service and he said he just uses the bible. I told him well you can do that until you get caught! We also discussed the recent child abuse with WT having to turn over documents. He said “WT is going to fight it because they have to in order to prove their innocence” I said well then why are they settling out of court whenever they can.
Does anyone know how to search for lawsuits that were settled out of court? I just need an approximate number not the details.
Reply
 
 Doc Obvious says:

 April 26, 2016 at 7:10 am
 
Lawyers have a subscription to all court documents on their computers. They can look up any case within the United States for a particular company.
Reply
 
 
 Average Joe says:

 April 26, 2016 at 12:12 pm
 
@MIMILOVE. Good for your husband! I find myself in the same boat. I encourage people to read the Bible. Not placed magazines in years and always use the excuse “the society want us to go through a whole presentation using the Bible before we offer literature to make sure they are interested and the people I meet aren’t.” But it’s been over a year since one of the elders talked about my field service report. That’s the truth, even though I don’t offer literature anyway after a good Bible discussion. I just love hearing other people’s viewpoints on the ministry and I use them to enrich my own understanding on scriptural subjects and life.
Reply
 
 
 Susannah says:

 April 27, 2016 at 3:04 am
 
There is often a gagging order so the details are not easily found. Barbara Anderson has a fair amount of info about child abuse decisions on http://watchtowerdocuments.org
Reply
 
 
 Sarah says:

 April 27, 2016 at 3:55 am
 
Does your husband know there are secret rules which elders use when they arrange a judicial hearing? Does he know elders will not tell the accused person what he is accused of? Does he know the accused cannot defend himself? Does he know that if he asks for an appeal committee that committee will discuss the case in secret with the original committee?
 These secret rules are unlawful according to the Irish Supreme Court.
Reply
 
 
 
 Jakob says:

 April 26, 2016 at 1:27 pm
 
Turn please from Russian into English if you can. Video reveals the mystery of the Babylonian whore. This video should see everything. The information does not contradict the Bible. Sorry for my English.



Reply
 
 
 Meredith J says:

 April 26, 2016 at 3:28 pm
 
Well, well, well. Now all my comments are being moderated. East is east and west is west and never the twain shall meet. Atheists versus Christians. You are driving your viewers away in their droves with this ruling of not allowing Christian comments. If you only allow atheists on here you have denied freedom for yourself and your viewers. Atheist rants are unreadable to us as they mock God which we refuse to read. No point in tuning in if that is the case as the site has been taken over by those who do not want to see it succeed. What is the percentage of those who are Christian do you think are tuning in to this site? Let’s say a great proportion of them are. You may lose a large portion of your audience.
Reply
 
 Winston Smith says:

 April 26, 2016 at 5:18 pm
 
Meredith,
 From time to time all of our comments get moderated, so don’t take it so personally. The moderation may be using a program that looks for certain buzzwords in order to prevent proselyltizing on the site. Also if you use an abnormal IP address (like at a coffee shop or an Internet cafe) you may also get moderated. It’s the sites way of blocking JW trolls. Your comments are getting through. It’s good to have all sides of a the ex-JW community: atheist, deist, and Christian. Just respect the atheist’s right to draw the conclusion that there is no God as you’d like them to respect your right to believe there is one (Matthew 7:12)
WS
Reply
 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 26, 2016 at 5:47 pm
 
Meredith,
I think the site’s ruling is that comments, whether theist or non-theist, are allowed as long as they are relevant to the topic at hand and are not just evangelizing for evangelizing sake – comments (theist or non-theist) must expose/refute/debunk/counter WT teachings and practices.
Some of my comments have been blocked in the past when I for e.g. included more than 2 websites in my comment or I included a website address which the moderating program was suspicious of, perhaps deeming it to be spam.
Reply
 
 
 Susannah says:

 April 27, 2016 at 2:51 am
 
Hi Meridith,
 It has nothing to do with Athiest or Theist views. The site uses an automatic moderation and things go into the moderation filter for all sorts of reasons. I would guess this site is hit with a huge amount of spam and needs the moderation filter to be set fairly high. I get moderated a lot. No idea why. I do not take it personally as I understand its a program that is putting me in the box. LOL
 I would also guess that this site’s visitors is growing not decreasing. Since I have been visiting so many have come out, comment and leave because of a recovery process. It is normal. New people come. Its a wonderful freedom to come and go.
Reply
 
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 27, 2016 at 3:04 pm
 
Meredith
We are not blocking any Christian comments. As long as you are respectful and are on topic, you will not be blocked. Some comments are automatically moderated by our software, and we have to manually approve them. If you feel that any comment was mistakenly un-approved, email us at our contact email address and we will handle your request
Thanks
JR
Reply
 
 
 Ian Howat says:

 May 2, 2016 at 9:24 am
 
I still take wife to meetings and can confirm they still refer to it as school.when they split into two schools.also i do nothing now but was asked if i would like to rejoin the “school” ..
Reply
 
 
 
 Julien says:

 April 26, 2016 at 7:15 pm
 
Can god exist without religion? If you answer yes then why does anyone need the bible or a religion to be closer to god? Why do you need intermediaries? Why do you need a group of people telling you what to reveal, what to hide, what to say, what to read, who to love, how to dress, how to act?
Reply
 
 Freed Mason says:

 April 27, 2016 at 3:29 am
 
Well said – totally agree!
The Amplified Bible Ecc 8:9 – All this have I seen while applying my mind to every work that is done under the sun. There is a time in which one man has power over another to his own hurt or to the other man’s.
Most Religion insults man’s and God’s intelligence ad therefore is an irrelevant interposer between God and Creation.
Reply
 
 
 
 Sharon Christensen says:

 April 26, 2016 at 7:58 pm
 
God does not make religion, man makes religion as a means of controlling people. Awesome if they can not get any of Princes fortune! :)). But I am sure the scoundrels will try their best to as they do with any of their members who pass. Thanx Covert for this info.
Reply
 
 
 Alice says:

 April 27, 2016 at 12:22 am
 
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2016/04/26/prince-death-investigation-reportedly-focusing-on-pain-pills.html
Prince death investigation reportedly focusing on pain pills Authorities investigating the sudden death of pop star Prince are focusing on the role painkillers may have played in his premature demise, according to a published report.
Michael Padden, a longtime attorney for two of Prince’s siblings, told the Star-Tribune that Prince’s sister Lorna Nelson and brother Duane Nelson told him that Prince particularly abused the painkiller Percocet, as well as cocaine. According to Lorna Nelson Prince didn’t leave a will.
Reply
 
 
 Kathryn says:

 April 27, 2016 at 12:26 am
 
This makes me wonder if maybe Prince’s sister is claiming no will was left? So the society wont get his money? I don’t know. I’m guessing.
Reply
 
 
 Zua says:

 April 27, 2016 at 4:09 am
 
On the guidelines of how to handle child abuse cases, what I find more disgusting in the WT rules is the following statement found in “Circuit Overseer guidelines”: “communications related to child abuse matters should be handled over the telephone”. It has been said that he who has done no wrong has nothing to fear and to hide. Jesus himself said: “there is nothing hidden that won’t be revealed, and there is nothing secret that won’t become known and come to light”-Luke 8:17. It means that the WT is afraid on this issue.
Reply
 
 
 Stirring Awake says:

 April 27, 2016 at 4:36 am
 
Completley OT comment incoming, but I had to put it out there to get it off my chest:
The week starting Sept 19 the new congregation study book will be “God’s Kingdom Rules! “where we will all be able to gain a deeper appreciation for our spiritual heritage.”
The fact that the book is misleading through the smoke and mirror changes to JW history is bad enough but to hear that being read, knowing all other congregations would get the same line made my stomach churn.
Sorry for going OT…
Reply
 
 
 Eric Arthur Blair says:

 April 27, 2016 at 11:51 pm
 
Wowsers, this is a turn up for the books:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3562640/Prince-diagnosed-AIDs-six-months-died-refused-treatment-believed-God-heal-him.html
If it’s true, I wonder if watchtower would still touch his money? Surely they couldn’t do it without making international headlines. Hopefully that would put the spotlight on them and their child abuse record too. Even the r and f might wonder about this one. At least they’ll get to hear about it. Could be a wake up moment for some.
Reply
 
 
 Ready 4 to Fade says:

 April 28, 2016 at 9:12 pm
 
Just brainstorming here, out if sheet frustration at not being able to hurry things along with the documents from WT that may be released tomorrow, hopefully! What if the ex-JW community started it’s own database of known pedophiles associated with WT? I know that there are many logistical challenges in doing so and the credibility of such a list would be highly scrutinized, but I think it would be worth a try. In many countries, as here in the U.S. there are public databases of offenders. In the org. many of us have known of cases where it was suspected and if that could be verified by a registry, it may be damning evidence of systemic worldwide failure of WT policy. Just a thought.
Reply
 
 Ready 4 to Fade says:

 April 28, 2016 at 9:13 pm
 
Sheer frustration rather 🙂
Reply
 
 
 
 Idontknowhatodo says:

 May 1, 2016 at 6:10 am
 
Is there a problem with this site?….
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 May 1, 2016 at 6:49 am
 
In what way? It’s been quiet for a few days, hasn’t it. Saying that I’ve noticed a few are catching up on older posts.
Reply
 
 Idontknowhatodo says:

 May 1, 2016 at 5:52 pm
 
It is quiet….I think when Lloyd was looking after it we always had a Friday Column about some little gem…it wasnt always new info but always interesting… I really depended on it then… it is needed by new readers whatever stage of in or out they are.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 May 1, 2016 at 6:48 pm
 
These guys may have other ‘stuff’ going on in their lives. Lets face it, they have given us a feast of information in the previous weeks and months. I think this breather gives us all chance to look back on past posts or even go and check out JWFacts.
 I noticed that when new posts came hot on the tail of the previous one many jumped to the new post without really appreciating the past one. It’s a bit like putting all the courses on the table at once. Me, I’m a desert sort of girl so I would go for the dessert before the main… it’s easy to overlook some very relevant comments when we do that. That’s just my take on it.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Doc Obvious says:

 May 1, 2016 at 6:06 pm
 
The new John Cedar’s YouTube video on the United Nations and the Watchtower was a great video. The Cover-ups just keep coming in the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. I believe Jehovah will reveal more secrets about the Watchtower as time goes on. The documentation is superb. The Watchtower leadership always view themselves as superior than the rest of the publishers and have found themselves in deep do-do.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 May 1, 2016 at 6:49 pm
 
I really wanted to post it on my fb page but the fall out would be hard to handle for me right now – other stress going on in my life. I have passed it on to others though. Very informative video Lloyd..
Reply
 
 
 ScotWm says:

 May 2, 2016 at 7:21 pm
 
For more on Watchtower leaders swearing allegiance to worldly governments, scroll down to the end of the page sited below and look at the passports of Joe Rutherford and Nate Knorr: http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/malawi-mexico-oath-allegiance.php
Reply
 
 gary says:

 May 2, 2016 at 11:27 pm
 
Thank you, that was well worth reading.
Reply
 
 ScotWm says:

 May 3, 2016 at 9:32 pm
 
It appears that the hypocrisy of Watchtower leadership has no boundaries. Saluting a flag is idolatry, but signing an oath of alligence to a government is OK.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
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← News Bulletin: Secret Watchtower documents once again demanded in new US court case.
 
Why Watchtower should be ashamed of its new homophobic child propaganda cartoon
avatar 
Posted on May 3, 2016

In the new cartoon, Sophia's mum teaches her how to be judgmental and bigoted
In the new cartoon, Sophia’s mum teaches her how to be judgmental and bigoted

It was in the summer 2012 that Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world were first introduced to Caleb and Sophia, the Governing Body’s new animated poster kids.
Their first cartoon adventures, which were distributed in DVDs at conventions and on the organization’s JW.org website, caused outrage even among many non-JWs. Watchtower’s blatant attempts to indoctrinate children using fear and paranoia created a wave of dismay that will have gone largely unnoticed by most ordinary JWs.
Since they first burst on to our screens, Caleb and Sophia have been taught by their troubled parents that Jehovah is pedantic enough to hate certain kinds of plastic action figures, that he wants kids to give their ice cream money to Watchtower, and that failing to pay sufficient attention at kingdom hall meetings can carry the death penalty.
But Watchtower apparently isn’t done with stripping JW kids of all innocence and individuality. Now the Governing Body wants them to challenge any classmates with gay or lesbian parents, and remind them that if mommy and mommy (or daddy and daddy) don’t change their ways they will lose their tickets to paradise.


It’s hard to know where to start in verbalizing one’s revulsion at the proud ignorance and homophobia on open display in this CGI monstrosity, but I will do my best.
Firstly, Sophia’s bewilderingly-orange mother manipulates her daughter with a metaphor that entirely misrepresents both homosexuality and Watchtower’s views regarding it. Sophia is asked to picture a man traveling with a bag, the contents of which trigger the airport security systems because he is carrying a prohibited item.
Homosexuality is explained as being the forbidden item the man must surrender before being allowed to travel on to his desired destination: paradise earth.
The video presents a misleading metaphor that misrepresents both homosexuality and Watchtower's teachings about what awaits homosexuals
The video presents a misleading metaphor that misrepresents both homosexuality and Watchtower’s teachings about what awaits homosexuals
 
Anybody remotely in tune with reality understands that homosexuality is not a “choice,” as so often portrayed by Christian fundamentalists. Straight people are born straight, and gay people are born gay. Just as it would be outrageous to ask a straight person to start being gay, it is impossible to expect a gay person to live a lie and stop being who they are. And yet this is what fanatics like Watchtower demand of them.
Secondly, the metaphor implies that if the traveler chooses against surrendering the forbidden item, the worst that will happen is that his ticket will be cancelled and he will be forced to browse the duty free before hailing a cab and making his way back to the hotel. But that is not how it works according to Jehovah’s Witness teachings.
If the metaphor were accurately and fully followed through, we would see the traveller being bundled away by security and thrown into a 1940s cattle cart, along with all others deemed undesirable by the Governing Body, before being dispatched to the great extermination camp of Armageddon.
This is not a case of “follow us, or don’t fly,” this is a case of “follow us, or die.”
But this doomsday aspect of Jehovah’s Witness theology is so repugnant to most ordinary people that Watchtower must do its best to obfuscate it wherever possible.
Even most JWs you may encounter on the street, if pressed on the matter, will deny that literally billions of people, including children, are in line for mass slaughter if their hopes and expectations come to fruition. Their continued state of subservience to their religion depends on them not thinking things through to their fullest, most grisly conclusion.
All that deception and mischaracterization aside, arguably the most repugnant and disturbing aspect of this vile cartoon is that it sets out to recruit JW children to impose the organization’s homophobic bigotry on any classmates who happen to have gay or lesbian parents.
When I was growing up as a JW I recall being indoctrinated into believing that homosexuality was to be condemned. But I don’t remember once being told to actively seek out homosexuals, or children of homosexuals, to badger them with my beliefs. All that, apparently, has now changed. Watchtower has thrown its hat in with all the other sickly Christian evangelicals whose crusade is to stamp out homosexuality wherever it surfaces.
If you want to see what the end game is of preaching hate in this way, you need only watch the documentary “God Loves Uganda,” which is currently running on Netflix. It shows how U.S. evangelicals have taken a loathsome message that has zero credibility in their homeland, and cynically flooded Uganda with it – a country whose populace have limited access to education and are therefore easy pickings for those who spew ignorance and bigotry.


And before I am accused of trying to persuade people towards atheism by making this film recommendation, I should point out that two heroes of the film are Reverend Kaoma and Bishop Senyonjo. By the end of the film, I wanted to reach into my screen and hug them both.
Despite being Christians they could plainly see the real danger posed by evangelical homophobic fanaticism, and were doing their best in the face of unspeakable brutality to urge love, respect and tolerance.
Now it seems Watchtower, having already embraced televangelism, are also now quite happy to count themselves among the small-minded homophobic hate-mongers who stain our society. And rather than lead the hateful charge themselves, the likes of Tony Morris and his Governing Body cronies are content to hide behind a newly-formed army of school-age foot-soldiers who will take the heat for them.
 
new-cedars-signature3
 
 
 
 
 
 
Further reading…
◾Metro article
◾Inquisitr article
◾The Friendly Atheist article
◾Rawstory article
◾Complex article
◾Pink News article
◾Wonkette article
◾Gaystarnews article
◾SDGLN.com article
◾Same Same article
◾Newnownext article
◾The Daily Dot article
◾The Stranger article
◾The Gaily Grind article
◾Dangerous Minds article
◾TheNewCivilRightsMovement.com article
◾Progressive Secular Humanist article
◾JoeMyGod.com article
◾Watchtower’s New “Toy Story” – What Parents Need to Know
◾Sparlock a year later: Non-JWs in uproar on YouTube
◾Cough up kids! Watchtower needs your ice cream money
◾“Pay attention or die” – A disturbing glimpse of JW child indoctrination at work
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123 Responses to Why Watchtower should be ashamed of its new homophobic child propaganda cartoon


Newer Comments →
 
 MARS says:

 May 3, 2016 at 10:47 am
 
The grapevine. They are also planning to do a Celeb story regarding former “associates” , how Celeb asks Dad why can’t he play with his friends anymore – its about children shunning children of ex members aka apostates. Its in the works.
Reply
 
 Covert Fade says:

 May 3, 2016 at 10:53 am
 
I hope they bring that out soon.
Because that will be forwarded ASAP to all of the Government and legal investigations going on around the world into the JW’s.
I love it when Watchtower hands it’s foes a fully loaded Uzi…
Reply
 
 yawn says:

 May 3, 2016 at 11:22 am
 
Are they just poking the bear here by making this, and the rumored one about shunning, so they can scream PERSECUTION when gov’t agencies and others call them out on their crap?
Reply
 
 
 
 
 yawn says:

 May 3, 2016 at 10:48 am
 
In addition to the ridiculous message, how sick is it to implant in Sophia’s mind that she is now RESPONSIBLE to some degree for whether her friend and her family survive Armageddon.
 That’s a lot of pressure to put on a kid, and will likely cause her much anguish for no good reason (as those of us raised JW likely know).
Reply
 
 karl says:

 May 4, 2016 at 7:31 am
 
This is par for the course for the cult. I remember as a kid becoming a publisher in large part because I thought I’d be killed as punishment for failing to convert someone and “forcing” god to kill them too. Pretty messed up to be thinking things like that at 11.
Reply
 
 
 
 alanv says:

 May 3, 2016 at 11:05 am
 
The more of these stupid children’s videos there are, the bigger the hole they are digging for themselves. Authorities the world over will see Watchtower for what it is.
Reply
 
 
 BC says:

 May 3, 2016 at 11:16 am
 
Dear Lloyd, congratulations for yours fantastic posts!
Reply
 
 
 Dr Strabismus of Utrecht says:

 May 3, 2016 at 11:31 am
 
“My mother made me a homosexual”.
“Really? If I get her the wool, will she make me one, too?”
Do the Governing Body and Sophia’s mother really think homosexuality is catching? 😉
Reply
 
 Kay says:

 May 4, 2016 at 3:45 am
 
Yes. These are people who are attracted to the same gender, yet repress those feelings. They think everyone is secretly doing the same thing. So if homosexuality becomes more acceptable they think we will all ditch our opposite sex partners for new gay relationships.
Reply
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 May 4, 2016 at 8:27 am
 
*** w86 1/1 p. 13 par. 12 Days Like “the Days of Noah” ***
Shocking as it is, even some who have been prominent in Jehovah’s organization have succumbed to immoral practices, including homosexuality, wife swapping, and child molesting. It is to be noted, also, that during the past year, 36,638 individuals had to be disfellowshipped from the Christian congregation, the greater number of them for practicing immorality. Jehovah’s organization must be kept clean!
Reply
 
 Dr Strabismus of Utrecht says:

 May 4, 2016 at 12:56 pm
 
Gosh! 😉
Reply
 
 
 
 Dr Strabismus of Utrecht says:

 May 4, 2016 at 12:59 pm
 
Yet another example of “I’m not having any fun, so nobody else should” misery-guts syndrome…
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Riley says:

 May 3, 2016 at 11:31 am
 
Great video Lloyd !
Reply
 
 
 WideAwake says:

 May 3, 2016 at 11:33 am
 
Thank you Lloyd for the well written article.
 The truly sad part is how intolerance and a lack of compassion and understanding is such an intrinsic part of this cruel and controlling religion.
 To use cartoons to poison the minds of young, innocent vulnerable children is despicable.
 As you have stated, homosexuality by and large is not a choice.
 My JW cousin was a homosexual. Sadly he could not come to terms with the self-hatred and despair he lived with daily and committed suicide.
 The Watchtower might as well have put the gun to his head.
Reply
 
 
 Doc Obvious says:

 May 3, 2016 at 11:39 am
 
Anything that Jehovah does not approve of will not be able to go to paradise.
Let me think of different items that Jehovah does not approve of.
Well, here is a list:
1. A false tongue, lying.
 2. Being deceitful.
 3. Watchtower covering up pedophile cases.
 4. Watchtower not obeying the superior authorities when being asked for Child Sexual Abuse files.
 5. Child kidnapping.
 6. 1,006 cases of child abuse in Australia.
 7. Watchtower coveting people’s money.
 8. Jehovah God does not want pedophiles in paradise.
 9. Not taking care of items that are in their power to do so.
 10. Not being truthful about their financial situation.
 11. Threatening people into submission.
There is more. If anyone has more items please add.
Well, I guess Watchtower will not be able to go to paradise either.
Reply
 
 Sarah says:

 May 4, 2016 at 3:00 am
 
Add to your list:
 Writing secret rules in 90 secret letters to elders
 Said rules breach human rights
 Said rules breach Bible principles
 Said rules contradict public rules in WT mags
 Said rules make elders act against law.
 Etc.
Reply
 
 
 
 Lester Kite says:

 May 3, 2016 at 11:51 am
 
they’ve hit a new low, but will suffer the consequences of it like they have with all the other releases
Reply
 
 
 Will says:

 May 3, 2016 at 12:20 pm
 
Can you imagine if Sophia actually witnesses to her classmate about the “wrongness” of homosexuality? Let’s see: Sophia tells her classmates that her moms need to break up, so now the moms will have decide who keeps the kid. A family will be shattered, but that’s OK, they’ll being in paradise. What’s really going happen— Sophia’s classmate will tell her mom all the awful things Sophia said, including how God’s going to kill them. The moms will be furious, storm the school and demand to speak with Sophia’s horrible parents. The moms will likely get loud and then Sophia’s family will be at a convention talking about being persecuted for Jehovah and the speaker will tell everyone what a great example they are. This will be followed by a thunderous applause.
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 May 3, 2016 at 12:51 pm
 
I guess you didn’t notice but the mother encouraged her to mention paradise, the resurrection and the animals.
 Wonder why they didn’t use to fathers.
Reply
 
 ThePenthouseExperience says:

 May 3, 2016 at 8:26 pm
 
The fathers are on the “down-low” and probably “tricking” during the video storyboard and production.
That’s where all this “conversion” effort will lead–some kinky, kinky judicial meetings in the future.
So, the gay fellow had to leave behind his “Louis Vuitton” overnight bag to get into Paradise? I assume he got to keep the Rolex and the Armani suits?
Reply
 
 Searcher says:

 May 4, 2016 at 9:18 am
 
Yeah! He had his ‘tight pants’ in the overnight bag!
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Doc Obvious says:

 May 3, 2016 at 12:57 pm
 
So, Sophia calls into question the girl’s two mommies’ sexual orientation. The girl with the two mommies cries home and discusses the incident with the two mommies. The mommies tell the daughter to gang up on Sophia.
The next day Sophia gets in a fight with the girl with two mommies and gets sent to the principal’s office. The principal wants to know what is going on and finds that Sophia is not accepting of people for who they are. The Principal calls Sophia’s parents.
The Principal asks Sophia’s parents how Sophia became so opinionated. The Principal finds out that Sophia’s parents also discriminate based on sexual orientation. Weeks go by. The two mommies sue Sophia’s parents for discrimination and now appear in court.
The judge hears both sides and orders that Sophia and Sophia’s parents need sensitivity training and to do community service in the LGBT community. The judge states how flawed the Watchtower is and that their teachings are not good for the community.
Reply
 
 ThePenthouseExperience says:

 May 3, 2016 at 8:41 pm
 
While lesbians are a bit testosterone-endowed, I doubt the violence will be pushed from their side. The lesbian couple will approach the Principal or Teacher at the local welcoming church meeting and discuss the issue. There will be a call to the JW parents who will respond with arrogance and presumptive indignation assuming their rightness; the Principal will explain that she has no choice but to suspend the student based on bullying policies since Sophia has created a hostile learning environment.
A similar incident happened when Sophia’s dad was fired for creating a hostile work environment by preaching toward a transgender and ignoring supervisor reprimand and preaching at an openly gay coworker.
Sophia’s mom has begun experiencing anxiety and panic attacks due to mounting financial concerns and now this incident with the daughter has her experiencing a “persecution complex” with her anxiety.
When Sophia mom approached the elders with her issues of anxiety, they recommended that she pray, focus more on ministry, and meditate more on the literature (electronic books). She’s finding herself needing more than the two pain pills prescribed for a back pain she has developed from scrubbing the floors on her knees. It seems to help with the anxiety as well–at least she can make it through the day, now.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Markie says:

 May 3, 2016 at 12:47 pm
 
I do think that video is ridiculous but I am not sure if it is scientifically proven if people are born gay or not. I think it maybe a confluence of many things.
 A video like this makes me wonder what Sanderson thinks. I would venture a guess and say he is probably gay (not that there is anything wrong with it). I could just imagine all the hot pioneer sisters that threw themselves at him and he is still single.
Reply
 
 Winston Smith says:

 May 3, 2016 at 1:12 pm
 
Based on my observations, being born gay or straight is not so black and white. It seems there is a range of sexual orientation between gay and straight and we are all born somewhere in that range. Then our life experiences help to determine which way we lean based on our born-in predisposition. Some people are born hardcore straight others hardcore gay. Some are in between.
So it’s not necessarily nature OR nurture. It’s nature AND nurture that determine our sexual orientation. It is still beyond our control and thus not something we should use as reason to hate others.
WS
Reply
 
 Imgonaburn says:

 May 3, 2016 at 2:53 pm
 
My son is gay despite being ‘nurtured’ by his jw upbringing otherwise. He has Aspergers and we always (at the time) hoped as jw parents that his effeminate side was attributable to his Asd. I would often be at appointments with medical professionals where this side of his character would be discussed. I was prepared for the possibility that my son would be gay. I would say to Camhs that if he is gay or trans or whatever that I would support him regardless. Long story short. When I realised that he IS gay I quit the religion.
 I personally don’t think nurture plays much of a role in determining a persons sexuality. It’s not a choice. You are what you are.
Reply
 
 Winston Smith says:

 May 3, 2016 at 3:39 pm
 
I certainly never said or meant to imply that it was a choice. And let’s face it, jw “nurturing” is anything but that. When psychologists talk about nurture they are not necessarily talking about our upbringing, but the sum total of the experiences that influence our behavior. That’s the essence of the nature vs nurture debate that psychologists have been having for over 100 years.
When I talk about varying degrees of sexual orientation, imagine a gauge similar to a speedometer. On the far left you have totally homosexual and on the far right you have totally heterosexual. Most of us are probably born at one extreme or the other, but some fall in the middle. The closer you are to the middle the more your experiences may play a role in your final sexual orientation. At the extremes you are less likely to be influenced by your experiences. This model helps explain how some men or woman may have homosexual or heterosexual experiences at some point during youth, but then realize that the opposite orientation is a better fit. It doesn’t mean that it’s a choice. It’s simply a result of nature combined with nurture.
WS
Reply
 
 Imgonaburn says:

 May 3, 2016 at 4:49 pm
 
I apologise if my post sounded like I was attacking you. I was thought nurturing was to do with how we raise our children. I do understand what you are saying winston. thank you for explaining more about the nurture slant. I’ve just had an interesting conversation with my son. Even though he is gay and I’m straight we both agree that we find the female form more attractive lol. So maybe that sort of adds weight to what you are saying.
 I found the video very disturbing though and I’m glad I’m out of the jw mindset now. I’ve shared it on FB. I don’t have jw friends on FB and some of my ‘worldy’ friends have commented on the video saying how disgusting it is.
 The society are getting it wrong on so many levels. If they think that this is acceptable then they are dillusional. It needs to be shared online and given enough rope they will surely hang themselves?

 
 
 
 
 
 apostate shamostate says:

 May 3, 2016 at 1:57 pm
 
I think the point Lloyd is making that being gay is not a choice. If it were then people who are gay in countries that stone gay people would probably choose to be straight. They don’t choose that, because being gay is not a choice.
 I never decided to be straight, I was born straight, I have never thought anything different and luckily for me that is the socially acceptable norm in society. It is time gay, straight, transgender, asexual, pan-sexual etc etc were all considered socially acceptable norms and we just started minding our own business, stop being so interested in the sex lives of other people and were just nice to everyone.
 Sorry, rant over. It’s been a long and stressful day!
Reply
 
 JBob says:

 May 3, 2016 at 9:17 pm
 
I think we can get obsessed on whether it is innate or a preference and lose sight of the impact the Watchtower’s approach has on families. Noting that this video doesn’t bridge, or introduce, what happens when this lesbian couple (or one partner) decides to do things “Jehovah’s way” and creates an emotional mess of her life, her partner’s, her daughter’s, (assuming it is biological) and the father(s, if gay couple shared), then the stigma that will follow her as she strives to fit into JW community.
(And, here is where the imbalance comes, as an outsider probably has a better chance of being “welcomed” than a child of current JW parents. As we learned last year, androgynous boys and girls are not fully embraced and given full access to JW privileges and rites.)
Every move she mimics to become “straight” being scrutinized, then herself scrutinizing own mannerisms, speech and whether she’s being “submissive” instead of the relative egalitarian lesbian partnership she once had.
Oh, the potlucks will be held–maybe once every three months, but certainly no charitable fund-raisers, or community action events, unless we count crafting trinkets for the international convention delegates. Maybe if you land in the right congregation, you’ll see the unconditional love and caring showed by LGBT community during the HIV/AIDS crisis of the late 80’s and early 90’s, but if it’s an affliction that was caught while “unbecoming of a JW”–eh, reaping what you sow [puts covered dish and vacuum back in cupboard].
Reply
 
 
 
 Linda Cebrian says:

 May 3, 2016 at 9:19 pm
 
@markie: The director of the Human Genome Project has stated that sexuality is NOT hardwired. No one is born with a “sexual orientation.” That term is artificial jargon- constructed by homoerotic activists as part of the gay “rights” lexicon.
 We are all born with a biological sex according to our chromosomal makeup: XY=male; XX=female. Here is where science confirms the Bible
 (cf. Gen 1:27; Mt 19:5; Gal 3:28).
 Homosexuality is learned behavior and anything that is learned can be unlearned, which explains the reality of ex-gays who have been able to renounce/overcome their unwanted same-sex attractions. Unfortunately, cultural supports for this truth are lacking, since political correctness is the order of the day. The gay lobby (aka Big Sodomy) is well-funded and well-connected to the media, the judiciary, academe and politics.
 For more on the ex-gay movement, please google NARTH, the Restored Hope Network and/or Transforming Congregations.
Reply
 
 apostate shamostate says:

 May 4, 2016 at 12:47 am
 
You are joking??? Seriously this is very offensive. Hundreds of people have been killed because of their sexual identities and you are saying this is a choice!!!!!!
 When did you choose to be straight?
Reply
 
 
 Chris says:

 May 4, 2016 at 1:13 am
 
“We are all born with a biological sex according to our chromosomal makeup: XY=male; XX=female. Here is where science confirms the Bible
 (cf. Gen 1:27; Mt 19:5; Gal 3:28).”
This is actually not true. There is much more to biological sex in humans and other mammals than male and female, and I am not talking about transgender people or gender identity. For your edification, please read the following:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XYY_syndrome
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Klinefelter_XXY
“Homosexuality is learned behavior and anything that is learned can be unlearned, which explains the reality of ex-gays who have been able to renounce/overcome their unwanted same-sex attractions.”
You are also incorrect about this. The scientific consensus is that the opposite is true, and that it is not a learned behavior, just as heterosexuality is not a learned behavior. And this isn’t because of the mythical power of “Big Sodomy” either, it is because this is where the evidence points.
In fact, the initial assumption of the first scientists who studied this was similar to your view now. The scientific consensus of the 1950s (when sexuality started to really be studied) and the 1960s was that homosexuality was a learned behavior too, and that it could be cured. Based on their initial assumptions, scientists set out to prove that this was the case. However, study after study has demonstrated just the opposite. Now, let me explain to you why scientists understand this to be the case.
The first clue that sexual orientation wasn’t a choice came from just talking to gay people. Early surveys of homosexual people found that the vast majority of them (90% and up) felt as if they had no control over their sexual orientation. However, I am sure you will reject this because these are the gay people themselves telling you how they feel. And of course, this alone isn’t enough evidence, but it marked the beginning of scientists considering and studying a non-illness model of homosexuality.
The real nail in the coffin for the hypothesis that homosexuality is a learned behavior, however, comes from the study of genetics. To date, countless studies have found a genetic link to homosexuality, and none have not. For example, in a 1991 twin study, one of the first twin studies to look at homosexuality, they found a high concordance rate (the rate that both twins have a given trait) for homosexuality among twins. From the abstract, “52% (29/56) of monozygotic cotwins [identical twins], 22% (12/54) of dizygotic cotwins [fraternal twins], and 11% (6/57) of adoptive brothers were homosexual. Heritabilities were substantial under a wide range of assumptions about the population base rate of homosexuality and ascertainment bias” (http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=495588%20). The sample size was small, but it showed a clear connection between genes and homosexuality. More study was definitely warranted, but, why should it be the case that men are much more likely to be gay if they have a gay identical twin, if not because male homosexuality is partly caused by genetics? And no, it is not true that if some trait has a genetic cause, then that trait should occur 100% of the time in identical twins. For example, the concordance rate of schizophrenia in identical twins is between 10% and 60% depending on if the twins shared the same placenta (http://schizophreniabulletin.oxfordjournals.org/content/21/3/357.short). Likewise, for left-handedness, the concordance rate in identical twins is around 75% to 80% (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3900763/#B11). And, I am certain you do not think people “choose” to be schizophrenic or left-handed, do you? You would rightly think that someone was rather ignorant if they said that schizophrenia is a learned behavior.
In a somewhat more recent twin study (2000), with a large, nationally representative sample, they found the same thing as the 1991 study, but with a slightly lower concordance rate of 31.6% for identical twins. From the study, “these results suggest that genetic factors may provide an important influence on sexual orientation” (pg. 1845, http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/pdf/10.1176/appi.ajp.157.11.1843). If your hypothesis was correct, we would expect that for identical twins, if one twin is gay, the other twin would only be gay at the same rate as the population (~3%), but this is not what we find. And you may rebut this by saying that perhaps the higher rate among twins is due to the gay twin influencing or “recruiting” the other one to be gay. But, if this was the case, then we would expect the higher concordance rate to be roughly the same for fraternal twins, who do not share the exact same DNA, and identical twins, who do, since we would expect a roughly equivalent number of gay fraternal twins to succeed in “recruiting” their “straight” sibling. Of course, we do not see that. In fact, we see that fraternal twins have a lower concordance rate than identical twins, 13.3% compared to 31.6%. Why should it be the case that the more DNA twins have in common, the higher the concordance rate if genetics played no role in determining sexual orientation?
In addition to twin studies, and genetics, it was been found that the more older brothers a boy has, the more likely it is that he will be gay. From the abstract of a study on fraternal birth order and its effect on male homosexuality, “In men, sexual orientation correlates with an individual’s number of older brothers, each additional older brother increasing the odds of homosexuality by approximately 33%” (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0018506X01916812). Why would having more older brothers increase the chances of a male being gay? According to you, I suppose, people with more older brothers just coincidentally learn to be gay more often. According to reality, however, it is hypothesized that each additional brother born, makes more changes to the mother’s womb. These changes effect the levels of certain hormones and chemicals that are exposed to the future developing fetuses. The result is that future male fetuses are more likely to develop a homosexual sexual orientation.
The fact of the matter is that nobody chooses to be gay, straight, or bisexual, and nobody has any significant ability to change their sexual orientation, whether through prayer or therapy. Of course, this post is long enough already, and I do not have the time to relay to you the scientific studies on ex-gay therapy, like I did for the causes of homosexuality in humans. But very briefly, the studies show that ex-gay “therapy” is ineffective, and can actually be extremely harmful. It is, in a great sense, torture to beat into a gay child’s mind that they are sick and need to be healed, especially since they have no way of changing their sexual feelings. You set them up for failure, and then shun them when they fail. It is despicable, and has directly caused suicide.
I hope that you use the information I just taught you, and don’t just ignore it. Of course you have the right to believe whatever you want, but you should really change your beliefs about homosexuality so that they match the best available evidence, particularly since the types of incorrect beliefs you hold about gay people often result in the poor treatment of those people. I am sure you would say that you “love” gay people, but when you believe demonstrably untrue things about how they become gay and if they can stop being gay, then you clearly don’t love them enough to take the time to understand them.
Regards! Hope you have a nice day.
Reply
 
 
 MattH says:

 May 4, 2016 at 2:21 am
 
Thanks, I did do some searching as a result of reading your comment and I found this quote from Francis Collins, the director of the Human Genome Project:
“…indicating that sexual orientation is genetically influenced but not hardwired by DNA, and that whatever genes are involved represent predispostions, not predeterminations.”
Not so black and white as you state is it?
Then there is a further quote from him:
“The words quoted by NARTH all come from the appendix to my book “The Language of God” (pp.260-263), but have been juxtaposed in a way that suggests a somewhat different conclusion that I intended. I would urge anyone who is concerned about the meaning to refer back to the original text.”
Google. It’s a powerful tool for exposing misinformation.
(I searched for: director of human genome project sexuality not hard wired.)
Reply
 
 
 Victor says:

 May 4, 2016 at 5:26 am
 
chromosomes determine whether or not you have an excrescence between the legs, not your sexual orientation. it is sad to see so much bigotry in 2016.
Reply
 
 
 Kaytee says:

 May 4, 2016 at 6:39 am
 
Wrong wrong wrong! I did a research paper my first year of college trying to prove to myself that JW teachings on LGBTQ were right; instead, my research proved that they are unambiguously dead wrong* (no wonder they don’t want believers getting an education). You obviously don’t know the science you claim to know: homosexuality has been mapped to certain genes and epigenetic variations—proof that it’s not a “learned behavior.” To believe otherwise is nothing less than bigotry!
*As just one example of what my research found: transgender girls as young as toddlerhood have been caught trying to remove their male genetalia. If they weren’t born transgender, they wouldn’t care what’s between their legs until puberty at the earliest.
Reply
 
 
 Kaytee says:

 May 4, 2016 at 6:43 am
 
Oh, and another thing: gay repatriation therapy has been almost universally illegalized in the United States as well as in many other developed countries. Why? Because it is unethical and all too often leads to suicide. In my view, anyone who contributes to the vilification of LGBTQ people after knowing the facts has blood on their hands.
Reply
 
 Kaytee says:

 May 4, 2016 at 6:53 am
 
Reading my above comment, I realize I misspoke: To clarify, gay conversion or *reparative* therapy (stupid malapropism) is not banned for adults in most places, but for children. Additionally, most psychologists will not perform such therapy even on adults, because it’s considered unethical.
Reply
 
 
 
 Hip hip hooray I'm an ex says:

 May 4, 2016 at 6:49 am
 
Francis Collins, the head of the Human Genome project, is an evangelical Christian.
 Do you think that might’ve slanted his viewpoint on homosexuality’s inheritedness?
Reply
 
 
 dee2 says:

 May 4, 2016 at 6:57 am
 
@ Linda Cebrian,
Here’s a thought on Genesis 1:27:
GOD IS INVISIBLE but he made man in his “Image.” What does an invisible image look like?
Man was made from (depending on translation) dust, clay, or mud. Logically, the 1st human was mud in the invisible image of God.
All humans have 46 chromosomes but sex is determined by only 2 of them X and Y.
Males have one X and one Y. Females have 2 X’s.
Eve was constructed from Adam’s DNA (using his rib)
Eve had to be a clone of Adam. If God duplicated Adam’s X chromosome to make 2 X’s Even would be Female, but still related in every way to Adam. Why?
She would share the other 44 chromosomes with him. This would make her a Fraternal Twin.
ADAM married his sister!
OR
ADAM married his clone.
But wait!
Where in the Bible do we find the “wedding ceremony” of Adam and Eve?
Eve is called his “wife” but in what sense could a brother and sister marry and not produce idiots for children?
FUNDAMENTALISTS say: “God made Adam and Eve–not Adam and STEVE.”
However, we know that any sample of DNA from a person is specific to that person and does not change. That fact is helping to solve crimes, establish paternity and are getting people released from death row. Since the source material came from a dude, Adam, then the sample would be an exact genetic match for Adam.
Gulp!
That means that God did make Adam and STEVE after all!
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 May 4, 2016 at 1:42 pm
 
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5634582229549056/maybe-god-did-make-adam-steve-after-all
Reply
 
 
 
 dee2 says:

 May 4, 2016 at 9:37 am
 
@Linda Cebrian,
“We are all born with a biological sex according to our chromosomal makeup: XY=male; XX=female. Here is where science confirms the Bible
 (cf. Gen 1:27; Mt 19:5; Gal 3:28).”
The following article is of interest:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/think-gender-comes-down-to-x-and-y-chromosomes-think-again/article24811543/:
Think gender comes down to X and Y chromosomes? Think again
PETER MCKNIGHT
 Special to The Globe and Mail
 Thursday, Jun. 04, 2015
 Peter McKnight is an adjunct professor in the School of Criminology at Simon Fraser University.
“So which washroom is Caitlyn Jenner supposed to use? If you haven’t been keeping up with the Kardashians, you probably haven’t heard that Caitlyn is the name former Olympian and Kardashian patriarch Bruce Jenner has given herself.
And if you haven’t been keeping up with transgender issues, you probably haven’t heard that these things always come down to washrooms. Those who oppose all matters transgender inevitably get their knickers in a knot about who belongs in which washroom.
Witness the Senate’s recent efforts to gut NDP MP Randall Garrison’s transgender rights bill by exempting washrooms from its purview. And witness Conservative Senator Donald Plett’s comments that “vulnerable women” need to be protected from “biological males” who might enter the women’s washroom.
For many people, biology defines sex, and sex is always a binary affair. Sure, postmodernists have been playing with the concept of gender for decades, but sex, well, sex is sacred, which means you’re either biologically male or female. But never both. Or neither.
But biology doesn’t work that way. Biological phenomena don’t necessarily fit into human-ordained binary categories. So while humans insist that you’re either male or female – that you have either XY or XX sex chromosomes – biology begs to differ.
For example, genetic men with Klinefelter syndrome possess an extra X chromosome (XXY) or more rarely, two or three extra Xs (XXXY, XXXXY); they typically produce low levels of testosterone, leading to less-developed masculine sexual characteristics and more-developed feminine characteristics than other men. In contrast, some men receive an extra Y chromosome (XYY) in the genetic lottery, and while they have been referred to as “supermales” that is more sensationalism than science.
Genetic women with Turner syndrome have only one X chromosome; they often display less-developed female sexual characteristics than other women. And people with a genetic mosaic possess XX chromosomes in some cells and XY in others. So how do we determine if they’re male or female? Hint: Don’t say that it depends on the chromosomal makeup of the majority of their cells, since women with more than 90 per cent XY genetic material have given birth.
Even if you get the “right” combination of sex chromosomes, it’s no guarantee that you’ll fit into the carefully circumscribed human definitions of male and female.
For example, genetic women (XX) with congenital adrenal hyperplasia produced unusually high levels of virilizing hormones in utero and develop stereotypically masculine sexual characteristics, including masculinized genitals.
Similarly, genetic men (XY) with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome don’t respond to male hormones and fail to develop masculine sexual characteristics. Most live their lives as women. Some historians suggest that Joan of Arc, Elizabeth I and Wallis Simpson all suffered from this syndrome.
So what’s the answer? There isn’t one, at least if we’re looking for the answer in biology. We must not fall back on biology. Rather, we must always remember that it is we, not biology, who decide who counts as male or female. And it is we who must take responsibility for our decisions.”
Reply
 
 
 
 
 apostate shamostate says:

 May 3, 2016 at 1:35 pm
 
Thank you for writing this Lloyd. This video made me so angry when I watched it this morning and I feel a little calmer reading your rational take on how evil this horrible cult is. I do think this video should be shared far and wide and sent to newspapers, politicians etc to make people aware of just how nasty and dangerous this sect is. I honestly believe they are one step away from killing their children with KoolAid or sending them to blow up cathedrals and instead of shouting ‘Allahu Akbar’ they will shout ‘JW.org!’
Reply
 
 
 DavidR says:

 May 3, 2016 at 1:59 pm
 
Also Sophia, later Cain took his sister as his wife. So I hope you REALLY like your brother, cause you’re going to see a whole lot more of him.
Oh wait, we ignore that part? Oh okay.
Reply
 
 
 Will says:

 May 3, 2016 at 2:33 pm
 
I just sent the Village Voice, here in NYC the link to the video from JW.org. This is awful and it needs to be put out there.
Reply
 
 Will says:

 May 3, 2016 at 2:41 pm
 
And TV station WNBC. I said that with all the attention with Prince’s death and his embrace of the religion, it’s interesting how anti-gay witnesses and told them about the disturbing children’s video.
Reply
 
 Cherie says:

 May 4, 2016 at 8:01 am
 
Yesss. I really hope the mainstream media picks up on this.
Reply
 
 
 
 Cherie says:

 May 4, 2016 at 7:59 am
 
Good one, Will!
Reply
 
 
 
 Tara says:

 May 3, 2016 at 2:53 pm
 
Already on fb. an ex witness posted it and it’s being shared. talk about nail in their own coffin shut. Good job WT 🙂
Reply
 
 
 jonathan says:

 May 3, 2016 at 2:53 pm
 
Guys, as much as I do not condone JW doctrine, you do realize that any christian religion that takes the bible seriously will include homosexuality as a sinful practice, right? I dont understand why this is so surprising.
Reply
 
 yawn says:

 May 3, 2016 at 3:16 pm
 
Right. And all of Lloyds rebuttals apply to them, too. He even brings this up in the video, when speaking of Uganda.
Reply
 
 
 Cobb says:

 May 3, 2016 at 7:27 pm
 
I don’t think the point is that they don’t condone homosexuality. Even though there is nothing to approve or condone.. it simply is a fact of life. I think the point is that they are teaching little children to actively insult their peers and tell them that their parents are hated by god.
Reply
 
 markw says:

 May 4, 2016 at 11:36 am
 
That’s the point, Cobb. Exactly!
Reply
 
 
 
 
 sally peterson says:

 May 3, 2016 at 4:20 pm
 
Where does Jesus tell us to hate? I seem to recall Jesus telling us to love everyone, even our enemies and to pray for those persecuting us.”Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” Romans 13:10 Its a shame to see all this teaching of hatred.
Reply
 
 
 Caroline says:

 May 3, 2016 at 4:53 pm
 
When I saw that cartoon I was repulsed by it too and I am so glad you did a video about it and an article. Thanks!!
Reply
 
 
 Tara says:

 May 3, 2016 at 5:18 pm
 
can I please suggest that any parents out there contact your school and warn them of the video. For all the children’s sake, Jw or not. When my daughter was small she told her classmate in no uncertain term that Christmas was bad and evil…. you can imagine the fallout we had from that one. I was summoned by the head teacher etc etc. If one of the JW children tells a classmate about this video and elaborates, as they will, with help from mum and dad, there could be serious reprisals in the form of bullying. No child deserves that and most JW kids are little parrots. They will repeat word for word what they hear. Please, please contact your children’s teacher’s. Forewarned is forearmed.
Reply
 
 
 Jeffreycanning says:

 May 3, 2016 at 5:26 pm
 
Homosexual people are born such, and therefore born in Gods image…Maybe God is gay…?
Reply
 
 
 Balcácer says:

 May 3, 2016 at 6:11 pm
 
Can people do a sit in ? And tell that this organization that once again has failed-
 !!
Reply
 
 
 Flying Gabriel says:

 May 3, 2016 at 6:11 pm
 
They gave Sophia’s Mum nice perky breasts … to help the gay people.
Reply
 
 gary says:

 May 3, 2016 at 11:50 pm
 
Has she?, I must have missed that
Reply
 
 
 
 Anonymous says:

 May 3, 2016 at 6:37 pm
 
As a 23 year old closeted gay guy that’s still in the organization this infuriates me it shows how ignorant watchtower is. There is no way I can stop being gay. It’s so hard keeping a secret like this especially from Full Devouted JW parents and siblings. That little girl Sophia whatever her name is needs to shut the hell up and mind her own business. This video makes me sick portraying Homosexuality like its a
 Freakin T Shirt like its something I can just take on and off. I don’t believe in the Bible anymore some of it may be historically accurate but more than half of it is made up bull. I’m trying really hard to keep my fake smile and greet at the Kingdom Hall, I love my parents very much and according to my parents they tell they love me unconditionally BUT telling them I’m gay would completely throw them off, they don’t even suspect asking me when I’m getting married constantly. Thank you Cedars for opening my eyes since 99% of JW don’t even know what’s going on inside the org and would deny it saying its Santans work. Sorry for my long Comment thanks to Watchtower I have no friends, no life and no career.
 That is all
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 May 3, 2016 at 6:48 pm
 
For what it’s worth, you have friends here. A brother in my ex hall is gay. He has never ‘come out’ and his mother will tell you that he is just a very ‘clean’ boy….. even elders and non witness people can see that he is gay but the poor lad just hides it. I don’t think you are in any way alone. I am glad you told us. It took extreme courage but I know you will not be judged here. You are among people who care about you, not what you are or what others define or perceive you to be. Heck, I’m nearly 50, shunned, divorced and have PTSD. But on here I feel I have found a group of people who except me for what I am and support me in my fading.
Reply
 
 
 Roman Castañeda says:

 May 3, 2016 at 7:10 pm
 
Like many of us here, I wish my family would finally wake up from this indoctrination. But they cling on to the teachings much like we cling on to our beliefs.
I came out to my family recently and I understand where they are coming from, but I think it’s finally time I follow their advice and travel the world, or at least the American continent. It’s something I’ve always wanted to do.
Stepping away from them will take it’s toll, and I don’t feel right telling you to rush into anything. Just take your time, but don’t delay. This is your life you are talking about.
If you need someone to talk to, find me as ColorTheWindGreen on Kik. I’d be glad to be of service any way possible
Reply
 
 
 Cedars says:

 May 4, 2016 at 12:20 am
 
I feel for your predicament. It sounds like you need to be extremely patient and figure out an exit strategy. I hope everything works out for you eventually, even though it will doubtless take lots of time and more than a few tears. The end result, being free from living a lie, will be worth it all.
Reply
 
 
 Will says:

 May 4, 2016 at 6:55 am
 
I hope you someday find the courage to come out. You will need build a world outside the walls of the kingdom hall because you will be shunned if you intend to live how you feel. It’s very lonely for those who left, straight or gay. You seem to be a relatively young person, so you will need to do it before you get too old. You don’t want to feel you wasted your life away. Please do your research on how to minimize any emotional trauma. Best to you!!!
Reply
 
 
 Kaytee says:

 May 4, 2016 at 7:19 am
 
It breaks my heart that you have to fear rejection from your parents, just over being who you are! It seems almost everyone here has either faced that reality, or will need to face it at some point. You’re not alone! Whatever you choose to do, I know I’m not the only one who would happily give an ex-JW young person a family to be part of.
Reply
 
 
 
 Claire Gorman says:

 May 3, 2016 at 7:17 pm
 
My brother is gay. He tried to hide it but could deny his feelings no longer. He is not evil or insane. He would move the earth for anyone that needed help and wears his heart on his sleeve for his family. We love him and understand his orientation. The thought that this kind and loving man could be stripped of a reward in the next life due to a character trait that he did not choose does not sit well. I know we have a God of justice who would not take such action, despite what Watchtower propaganda would have you believe. We all know Caleb and Sophia are bull****. Just another Goebbels invention to keep the masses subserviant. High horse now vacated. Over and out. Peace to all readers.
Reply
 
 
 Winston Smith says:

 May 3, 2016 at 7:58 pm
 
I am pretty certain that my brother in law is gay. He has never come out and denies it profusely, but he has been caught with gay porn enough times and the excuses he gives for it are pretty weak. He is now 50 and has never been able to live his own life. He has been trapped in this cult and victimized by their abuse. I feel sorry for him. He grew up in an extremely abusive household (his father was an elder and one of the most horrible abusers I have ever known).
WS
Reply
 
 Vincent Deporter says:

 May 4, 2016 at 5:56 am
 
That is a horrible story. What a waste of life… My heart goes out to him. My fist goes out to his father.
Reply
 
 
 
 Sharon Christensen says:

 May 3, 2016 at 9:00 pm
 
The other day, my husband and daughter were reading the Bible acct of where some were condemning a person for being adulterous…Jesus answer to them…if anyone of you is sinless…throw the first stone….appartly there was not a single one who was…so eventually they departed and left the person alone! Also, who does it say Jesus died for…what, if any stipulations? That ALL of you may be saved! Job said…before we were born, Jehovah knew our makeup…He is a Father of tender mercies, remembering …we are dust…We are all so fortunate to have Him to look out for us, He alone understands us, no religion has the right to pass judgement that would cause a person to feel unworthy of Gods love…to the point of taking ones own life. For with the judgement you are rendering….You will be judged….Jw.org…has two or more… sets of…weights…if you have $ for them, they approve of or turn a blind eye to all kinds if things….
Reply
 
 Average Joe says:

 May 4, 2016 at 12:06 am
 
With regard your first Bible quote, the WTS have seen fit to remove that from their latest translation!!! Too much mercy being shown, more than likely!
Reply
 
 Winston Smith says:

 May 4, 2016 at 12:56 pm
 
@AJ
 I was likewise shocked when they eliminated that account from the “silver sword.” You’re probably right: too much mercy and not enough bigoted hatred along with self righteousness.
WS
Reply
 
 
 
 
 ClosetApostate says:

 May 3, 2016 at 9:11 pm
 
Young children Caleb and Sophea’s age don’t have the comprehension adults have. My six year old nephew was asked if he knows what a demon is. He said, “A demon is a roller coaster ride at Great America Amusement Park.” And I laughed. Kid’s don’t fully understand things because they’re kids. Noone wanted to explain to him exactly what gays do. So he thinks the video is stupid. And he said so. Nobody wanted to explain it to him. Who on earth is so stupid that they made a video like that? HAHAHAHA. Oh my goodness they are getting dumber at the top. The shame is the harm they cause. That is terrible.
Reply
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 May 4, 2016 at 4:13 am
 
They know what they are doing…
*** g92 2/22 p. 5 When to Start and How Much to Say ***
 Another time the child may ask: “How does the daddy’s seed get into the mommy?” You could say, respectfully: “You know how a boy is made. He has a penis. A mother has an opening in her body that the penis fits into, and the seed is planted.
Compare with…
*** fl chap. 9 p. 124 par. 19 Training Children from Infancy ***
 Later the child may ask, ‘How does the father’s seed get into the mother?’ You may simply say: ‘You know how a boy is. He has a penis. The girl has an opening in her body that it fits into. The seed is planted
You just switch from “girl” to “mother”!
Reply
 
 
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 May 3, 2016 at 11:58 pm
 
Who thinks the Watchtower will never be ashamed of the homophobic child propaganda cartoon? I think the World does not understand the game and interests behind. The following is from the very publications of JWs…
*** w56 1/1 p. 6 Part 25—Expansion in Europe and Africa (1945-1955) ***
 How have Jehovah’s witnesses coped with such a variety of European, Mohammedan and primitive pagan thinking?
We are all hit together… Europeans and “primitive pagans” in one basket, hit seriously! Empire rise and fall, time changes and people change! Yesterday’s allies are today’s enemies! I like to see how societies evolve!
Reply
 
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 May 3, 2016 at 11:59 pm
 
Sorry, the question is “Who thinks the Watchtower will be ashamed of the homophobic child propaganda cartoon?”
Reply
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 May 4, 2016 at 12:30 am
 
This comment is for ironic purposes only. Can you not see that the only people that are going to populate jdub paradise is the clones of Sophia and Caleb. Anyone who deviates from that fitted profile will get dinged out of the ring before close of day. So out with all you apostates, critical thinkers, sexual deviants, educated ,fat, old, demented, special needs, annoying and generally anyone who does not fit the perfect template. Dare I include mud born, celtic cursed, and jonny foreigner , when their money and usefulness runs out. This is because Jesus only came for the smug saved hard working boasting number toting self appointed self anointed jw.orgers. Sorry jc (not the other one) But your blood is Not acceptable for such sinners, we in the 21thC call gay. You come short with these people because they are not welcome in the garden of earthly delights aka the spiritual paradise or any future one.If this cult survives then they will be left with their perfect clones of Caleb and Sophia and wont that be grand, nice little cardboard cutouts of a shadow of humanity that they can tweak at will. Ooooh no arguments , no diversity, no shunning, and eventually no conversation. Afterall when everyone looks acts and thinks the same there will be nothing to say . Maybe if that miracle happens before Armageddon , they might use their lazy eyes to read the Bible and actually get the point of what humans are and what they do and how we are here to help each other out, not into a box of conformity. Just my opinion. Ruthlee
Reply
 
 Daniel Roberts says:

 May 4, 2016 at 1:30 am
 
Good comment. You forgot bald people. In the new order all will have nice thick luxurious hair. Only one style though. AND NO BEARDS ALLOWED.
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 May 4, 2016 at 4:12 am
 
To Daniel Roberts: Don’t forget No sideburns below the ear lobe and No Goatees either. Only and “Elder Mustache” is approved, and of course No tight pants! lol
Reply
 
 Daniel Roberts says:

 May 4, 2016 at 5:18 am
 
Too right. I believe all the above exclusions to paradise to be completely reasonable too…
Along with:
 Women shalt not weareth two legged garments and shalt remember they are not giraffes.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Queen Elsa says:

 May 4, 2016 at 1:39 am
 
Now I know why my daughter mentioned someone at school being gay!!! This really pisses me off…
Reply
 
 
 Daniel Roberts says:

 May 4, 2016 at 1:53 am
 
Should an organisation that blatantly spreads hate and intolerance propaganda be legally able to call itself a charity?
 I remember as a child how the JW indoctrination made me think being Gay was the same as pedophilia. After I escaped the cult it took me years to adjust my thinking.
 I thought all gay people were predators who would rape me and ‘turn me gay’ given the chance.
Bizarre how in reality, the organisation is actually protective of its pedophiles… yet active in condemning sex between two consenting adults of the same gender.
This animated hate crime is fashioned specifically to insidiously corrupt young minds.
It’s no different to the westboro baptist church’s ‘God hates fags’ slogan and their respective ignorant bigoted inhumane attitude to what is just another facet of human nature.
Reply
 
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 May 4, 2016 at 2:45 am
 
*** w64 5/1 p. 261 The Bible—Is It a “White Man’s Book”? ***
Why do many feel the Bible is a “white man’s book”? Whose book is it? For whom is it?
“A RELIGION organized and backed by the devils for the purpose of making slaves of black mankind.” This is the way Christianity was described by the leader of a militant colored organization. The Bible? He called it a “poison book.”
While many in the realm of Christendom may consider this an extremist viewpoint, the hard fact remains that a large number of colored peoples throughout all of Africa and Asia, as well as colored peoples in other parts of the world, feel similarly. They consider Christianity a “white man’s religion” and the Bible a “white man’s book.”
Some would be quick to dismiss these conclusions of such colored peoples as prejudiced and without any basis. But are such viewpoints without basis? Why have many of the colored peoples of the world come to such a conclusion? And, of vital importance, is it true that the Bible, and hence Christianity, is for the white man principally?
Bible, whose book is that? The one who will answer that question will have opened a way to solving all these problems including indoctrination of young minds of all races.
Reply
 
 
 Sarah says:

 May 4, 2016 at 3:09 am
 
Can someone tell me how old Sophia is? No child should be dealing with this sort of issue at such a young age. Children’s innocence should be protected. Let them grow up slowly.
Reply
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 May 4, 2016 at 4:01 am
 
I do not know how Old Sophia is but I know Mary was 13 years when she was impregnated by Jehovah to bear Jesus… It happened to be a teen pregnancy…
Reply
 
 Idontknowhatodo says:

 May 4, 2016 at 4:34 am
 
I love Lloyds repeated statement….. ‘How people choose to live their lives is none of our business’ this seems to be forgotten…as long as you are harming no-one tell them to mind their own business!
Reply
 
 
 
 
 chatpal says:

 May 4, 2016 at 4:45 am
 
this certainly is not how subjects like this would have been dealt with 50 years ago. then things were avoided when there was no clear answer. the televangelism is sickening. I cant help but get the feeling there is a undercover group at the wt undermining the whole thing. how on earth can every one of the gb at the wt or anyone up there, watch these videos and equally approve of them?
 how does teaching children this make them a better person or live a better life? it doesn’t. if anything the wt should be producing videos on how to be helpful to mommy and daddy , how to not fight with your sister, how to keep your room clean, how to help elderly ones in the cong. things kids actually UNDERSTAND. this is a subject Id never approach with my kids until they were like 16,lol. the short answer to a child that asks why so n so has two mommy’s, or dads, is that they are the best of friends and decided to live together and have children. to explain to a child [if they ask] why a persons physical does not match their actions, Id try explaining a simple scientific explanation. that does exist . i remember when the answer to uncomfortable questions was, well ‘we dont know, but Jehovah will do what he sees is best , as for us we have to be nice everyone’ ,lol
Reply
 
 
 Sam says:

 May 4, 2016 at 4:48 am
 
My parents are JW, very homophobic and have been extremely nasty about my sisters recent wedding to her girlfriend.
This specific sister works in child protection, protecting small children from the most horrific sexual and physical abuse, and rebuilding their lives after abuse. Something which Jehovah is content to let happen.
But Jehovah is going to kill her because of who she loves.
Reply
 
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 May 4, 2016 at 5:05 am
 
I am afraid the Watchtower is playing the game they know and are mocking us. For them, homosexuality is a result of quality of father-boy relationship…
*** g95 2/8 p. 16 Why Do I Have These Feelings? ***
 A boy also needs acknowledgment, love, and approval from his father. (Compare Luke 3:22.) What can result when a father fails to give his child this needed attention? Emotional distress. Mental-health writer Joseph Nicolosi claims that male homosexuality is “almost always the result of problems in family relations, particularly between father and son.”
Reply
 
 Daniel Roberts says:

 May 4, 2016 at 5:30 am
 
Yup. That’s exactly what makes someone choose to be gay. Not getting enough attention from their father.
Guess I should be gay then.
Hang on…
Maybe…..
I…..
Am….
….
Nope, still like boobs.
Reply
 
 Winston Smith says:

 May 4, 2016 at 1:00 pm
 
Man-boobs? Sorry I couldn’t resist. LOL
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Vincent Deporter says:

 May 4, 2016 at 5:47 am
 
Well done! Hopefully, this video will keep blazing thru the internet to warn people of how despicable this cult is, and homophobia in general.
Reply
 
 
 Vincent Deporter says:

 May 4, 2016 at 5:53 am
 
Just one more thing. I am amused at the likelihood that by the time Caleb & Sophia hit 18, they will have smartened up and left the cult… like most young ones today. Hehe!
Reply
 
 Covert Fade says:

 May 4, 2016 at 4:17 pm
 
Very true! 🙂
Reply
 
 
 
 Gameisover says:

 May 4, 2016 at 6:03 am
 
I don’t believe nurturing has anything to do with sexual orientation. Many children are brought up by only women in their household, and are not gay because of it.
 Of the 7 things God hates , none have to do with sins of the flesh, but with lying, defaming, pride. (Watchtower!!)
 Homosexuality is definitely not a choice. It just happens.
 Society instead has a choice: To welcome and respect everyone they meet on this short trip that we call LIFE.
Reply
 
 Winston Smith says:

 May 4, 2016 at 5:38 pm
 
Gameisover,
Not sure if this is response to my comment earlier, but my references to nurture are not in specific regard to child rearing, but rather to the overall sum of experiences that shape our lives and as is defined by the nature vs nurture psychological argument. See additional info above.
WS
Reply
 
 
 

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← News Bulletin: Secret Watchtower documents once again demanded in new US court case.
 
Why Watchtower should be ashamed of its new homophobic child propaganda cartoon
avatar 
Posted on May 3, 2016

In the new cartoon, Sophia's mum teaches her how to be judgmental and bigoted
In the new cartoon, Sophia’s mum teaches her how to be judgmental and bigoted

It was in the summer 2012 that Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world were first introduced to Caleb and Sophia, the Governing Body’s new animated poster kids.
Their first cartoon adventures, which were distributed in DVDs at conventions and on the organization’s JW.org website, caused outrage even among many non-JWs. Watchtower’s blatant attempts to indoctrinate children using fear and paranoia created a wave of dismay that will have gone largely unnoticed by most ordinary JWs.
Since they first burst on to our screens, Caleb and Sophia have been taught by their troubled parents that Jehovah is pedantic enough to hate certain kinds of plastic action figures, that he wants kids to give their ice cream money to Watchtower, and that failing to pay sufficient attention at kingdom hall meetings can carry the death penalty.
But Watchtower apparently isn’t done with stripping JW kids of all innocence and individuality. Now the Governing Body wants them to challenge any classmates with gay or lesbian parents, and remind them that if mommy and mommy (or daddy and daddy) don’t change their ways they will lose their tickets to paradise.


It’s hard to know where to start in verbalizing one’s revulsion at the proud ignorance and homophobia on open display in this CGI monstrosity, but I will do my best.
Firstly, Sophia’s bewilderingly-orange mother manipulates her daughter with a metaphor that entirely misrepresents both homosexuality and Watchtower’s views regarding it. Sophia is asked to picture a man traveling with a bag, the contents of which trigger the airport security systems because he is carrying a prohibited item.
Homosexuality is explained as being the forbidden item the man must surrender before being allowed to travel on to his desired destination: paradise earth.
The video presents a misleading metaphor that misrepresents both homosexuality and Watchtower's teachings about what awaits homosexuals
The video presents a misleading metaphor that misrepresents both homosexuality and Watchtower’s teachings about what awaits homosexuals
 
Anybody remotely in tune with reality understands that homosexuality is not a “choice,” as so often portrayed by Christian fundamentalists. Straight people are born straight, and gay people are born gay. Just as it would be outrageous to ask a straight person to start being gay, it is impossible to expect a gay person to live a lie and stop being who they are. And yet this is what fanatics like Watchtower demand of them.
Secondly, the metaphor implies that if the traveler chooses against surrendering the forbidden item, the worst that will happen is that his ticket will be cancelled and he will be forced to browse the duty free before hailing a cab and making his way back to the hotel. But that is not how it works according to Jehovah’s Witness teachings.
If the metaphor were accurately and fully followed through, we would see the traveller being bundled away by security and thrown into a 1940s cattle cart, along with all others deemed undesirable by the Governing Body, before being dispatched to the great extermination camp of Armageddon.
This is not a case of “follow us, or don’t fly,” this is a case of “follow us, or die.”
But this doomsday aspect of Jehovah’s Witness theology is so repugnant to most ordinary people that Watchtower must do its best to obfuscate it wherever possible.
Even most JWs you may encounter on the street, if pressed on the matter, will deny that literally billions of people, including children, are in line for mass slaughter if their hopes and expectations come to fruition. Their continued state of subservience to their religion depends on them not thinking things through to their fullest, most grisly conclusion.
All that deception and mischaracterization aside, arguably the most repugnant and disturbing aspect of this vile cartoon is that it sets out to recruit JW children to impose the organization’s homophobic bigotry on any classmates who happen to have gay or lesbian parents.
When I was growing up as a JW I recall being indoctrinated into believing that homosexuality was to be condemned. But I don’t remember once being told to actively seek out homosexuals, or children of homosexuals, to badger them with my beliefs. All that, apparently, has now changed. Watchtower has thrown its hat in with all the other sickly Christian evangelicals whose crusade is to stamp out homosexuality wherever it surfaces.
If you want to see what the end game is of preaching hate in this way, you need only watch the documentary “God Loves Uganda,” which is currently running on Netflix. It shows how U.S. evangelicals have taken a loathsome message that has zero credibility in their homeland, and cynically flooded Uganda with it – a country whose populace have limited access to education and are therefore easy pickings for those who spew ignorance and bigotry.


And before I am accused of trying to persuade people towards atheism by making this film recommendation, I should point out that two heroes of the film are Reverend Kaoma and Bishop Senyonjo. By the end of the film, I wanted to reach into my screen and hug them both.
Despite being Christians they could plainly see the real danger posed by evangelical homophobic fanaticism, and were doing their best in the face of unspeakable brutality to urge love, respect and tolerance.
Now it seems Watchtower, having already embraced televangelism, are also now quite happy to count themselves among the small-minded homophobic hate-mongers who stain our society. And rather than lead the hateful charge themselves, the likes of Tony Morris and his Governing Body cronies are content to hide behind a newly-formed army of school-age foot-soldiers who will take the heat for them.
 
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Further reading…
◾Metro article
◾Inquisitr article
◾The Friendly Atheist article
◾Rawstory article
◾Complex article
◾Pink News article
◾Wonkette article
◾Gaystarnews article
◾SDGLN.com article
◾Same Same article
◾Newnownext article
◾The Daily Dot article
◾The Stranger article
◾The Gaily Grind article
◾Dangerous Minds article
◾TheNewCivilRightsMovement.com article
◾Progressive Secular Humanist article
◾JoeMyGod.com article
◾Watchtower’s New “Toy Story” – What Parents Need to Know
◾Sparlock a year later: Non-JWs in uproar on YouTube
◾Cough up kids! Watchtower needs your ice cream money
◾“Pay attention or die” – A disturbing glimpse of JW child indoctrination at work
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← News Bulletin: Secret Watchtower documents once again demanded in new US court case.
 
123 Responses to Why Watchtower should be ashamed of its new homophobic child propaganda cartoon

← Older Comments
 
 Tara says:

 May 4, 2016 at 6:27 am
 
I would actually be quite happy in marrying a gay guy because the ones I know are loving and kind. My ex was sexually abusive, mentally abusive and narcissistic. I would love the companionship of someone who didn’t see me as just something to screw.
 I have G and L family members and they are lovely. I mentioned them a few times when I was ‘in’ and actually had jw’s say ‘oh I am so sorry, that must be awful for you….’
Now mt granddaughter, she’s 7, will be exposed to this. I have already passed the video on to my son and told him to pass it to his lawyer (who was married to a jw). Hopefully it can be used when they go to court, in some way.
Reply
 
 
 Twmack says:

 May 4, 2016 at 7:42 am
 
“Methinks they do protest too much”. Recent verbal
 attacks on homosexuals ( Tight pants designers and
 wearers), And now this thoughtless and humanity
 hating video, directed at young undeveloped minds.
It makes one wonder if those who authorised this trashy
 product. are not in the closet themselves.
As Lloyd has shown in his assessment of the video.
 Citing the Bible as the absolute authority on lifestyle
 leads into a minefield of contradictions.
Reply
 
 Winston Smith says:

 May 4, 2016 at 5:43 pm
 
Twmack
 Wouldn’t surprise me if you are correct. I mean think about how hard they slam masturbation and I know based on the reports of numerous bethelites that it is very prevalent at the headquarters. I have also heard that they outlawed wrestling and play fighting at bethel because some of young men were becoming aroused by it.
WS
Reply
 
 
 
 Kaytee says:

 May 4, 2016 at 7:48 am
 
My husband and I watched the above takedown of this horrible video without knowing our 7 y/o daughter was paying attention. We paused after it was over and asked her what she thought. She replied, “I wish I had two moms!” then, looking at my husband, “can I have two dads too?” We looked at each-other and cracked up! Homophobia is learned, it’s not something children do naturally.
Until just a few weeks ago, we mindlessly made our kids watch these videos. Thankfully, it now appears we suck at child indoctrination. I was so afraid for so long that my children wouldn’t decide to be JWs. The most wonderful part of waking up for me has been the peace of knowing I’ll never have to choose between them and Watchtower. I was always pretty sure Watchtower would lose that fight, which made me feel inadequate and sinful. Imagine that! I felt the fact that I wouldn’t be able to shun my children meant I could never please God! Such a messed-up world view.
If we hadn’t made our minds up before now, this video would have been the last straw anyway. Hopefully, there are many other Witnesses that feel the same way. I can’t wait until my husband finds a job with a non-JW company, so we can cut ties completely!
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 May 4, 2016 at 8:03 am
 
That was an amazing comment. Thanks for sharing! 🙂
Reply
 
 Kaytee says:

 May 4, 2016 at 11:46 am
 
Thank you! I’ve spent the last 10 days here and on jwfacts. I feel like I’ve dived into ice water!
I watched the video you made for your lovely little girl twice with my husband and youngest (she insisted on an encore). It’s beautiful, and how we feel about our children.
How anybody could look at a little girl’s drawing of her parents hand-in-hand in a sunny meadow and see something wrong (as Sophia apparently did) has always been beyond me! What is the end-goal? Breaking up a happy family simply because the parents share a biological sex? No, that is the exact opposite of loving.
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 May 4, 2016 at 12:41 pm
 
I can totally relate to how bracing it is to first start foraging online for decent info. I’m also glad you liked my video for Jessica. Well done for finding freedom, and immediately passing it on to your kids. It’s the best gift you can give them! 🙂
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Twmack says:

 May 4, 2016 at 8:09 am
 
Bible approved lifestyle.– Girls, if there’s no other
 man around to get you in the family way “Get your
 father to do the job,
It’s OK if he’s a righteous man like Lot. A man who
 who was sick of the depraved things going off in
 Sodom and Gomorrah. 2 Pet, 2:7.
Reply
 
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 May 4, 2016 at 8:45 am
 
The Watchtower will never be ashamed… They still have a pen to write about the secrets of the Kingdom…
*** g81 11/8 p. 21 Is the Bible a White Man’s Book? ***
 European nations, although claiming to be Christian, have quarreled and fought right through their turbulent history, this strife reaching a climax in this century in World Wars I and II, and now are making frantic preparations for World War III. And instead of proclaiming God’s kingdom, they look to a man-made political organization, the United Nations, as man’s only hope.
Reply
 
 
 Bridgette says:

 May 4, 2016 at 8:52 am
 
I have an infant and even though I am still trapped in the org, I resolved to never show her this crap while I was pregnant. I’m hoping this video wakes up others, including my husband. Ridiculous garbage!
Reply
 
 
 Searcher says:

 May 4, 2016 at 9:28 am
 
Whatever happened to the words of Christ, “He who is sinless cast the first stone.” Oh yeah, I forgot! They conveniently removed that from there newest ‘revision’ of the bible, because it hits this kind of propaganda right between the eyes.
As far a Sophia ‘witnessing’ to the child with two moms, I hope that Sophia’s mom teaches her how to duck a punch along with it. I see one kid who loves her family very much being very defensive about such a witness. Yep! Sophia might well learn what ‘persecution’ is all about when trying to push your views on someone else.
Reply
 
 
 Plopboy says:

 May 4, 2016 at 9:34 am
 
Seems to me they are simply following what the bible says about homosexuality so your problem is more with the scriptures than JWs in this case.
Reply
 
 Big B says:

 May 4, 2016 at 12:19 pm
 
A question for you Plopboy; If medical science can prove that people are born with a propensity of being “gay” (a gay gene if you will) why should God punish them with destruction if they have no choice in the matter. Can a leopard change his spots or could he naturally eat grass like a bull?
I say, let a perfect God and the “Son of Man” judge people without our imperfect interpretation and renderings of the Hebrew Scriptures. Now that a loving God has removed the obligation of the Mosaic Law from Christians we can approach him with the ransom. God loves sinners (not their sinning) otherwise the sending of his Son would be for naught.
I think we can all agree that we live where the strict interpretation of the Torah, or even the Islamic Sir-ea Law, is not followed because there would be few individuals that could stand up to its strict standards.
As far as I’m concerned J.W.’s who are allowing shenanigans concerning their pedophile protection policy’s to continue (with their ridiculous two witness rule) poses more danger to not only those in the Kingdom Hall but places the entire community at risk. Why? Because the elders will not report the offender to local authorities. In my opinion, this poses more of a risk to society than what sexual acts consenting adults care to perform in the privacy of their homes.
A better, more instructional cartoon would have been to show the children telling their parents of “improper touching” while in field service by an elder. Then showing the parents contacting the Local Authorities after nothing is done by the congregational body of elders. (Let’s put this matter in Jehovah’s hands). This would be more believable than the “two mommies” scenario in my book. Yeah, fat chance that ever happens. 🙂
Reply
 
 
 Covert Fade says:

 May 4, 2016 at 1:51 pm
 
Watchtower: “Consensual gay sex is WRONG! Now come over here and help me not report all these pedophiles.”
Reply
 
 
 
 Darth Fader says:

 May 4, 2016 at 10:26 am
 
In the 1930’s and 40’s the Nazis used the same child indoctrination techniques to dehumanize their imagined opponents, the Jews in particular. The Nazis printed story books and made cartoons for their little ones to poison their minds and make it OK to kill these demonized ones. We all know what this type of child indoctrination leads to.
 The unfortunate result of this will be that JW kids will become the ones that will be persecuted for this stance taken by the Governing Body. Expect to see Young ones trotted out at future conventions and assemblies to tell how heroically they took a beating at school while taking a stand for the CEO’s of a Billion Dollar Publishing Corporation.
Reply
 
 
 SuzI Drums says:

 May 4, 2016 at 12:25 pm
 
This, even more than their previous child-targeted videos, shows how they are usurping the parents’ rights to exercise their best judgment as to what, when and how to teach their children. The assumption that these videos are safe for children to watch on their own could leave parents with nasty surprises in the form of calls from schools, angry parents and even lawyers.
Reply
 
 
 PeterB says:

 May 4, 2016 at 12:38 pm
 
This comment will not go over well with this community Mr. Scott. I know what you are trying to express, I feel the same way. But this community is focused on one thing, and that is to expose JW as a hopelessly failing- evil cult. (This community takes advantage of “freedom of speech” but doesn’t realize that the USA government along with their elite buddies have been inching closer and closer to their plans of removing “free speech” and removing most of the constitution in order to bring in a “New World Order”. Hellooooo…9/11 was totally an inside job. This community still watches mainstream news outlets and believes that one day mankind will make beautiful changes…LOL Why the extensive parentheses you might ask…because knowing the facts about a shadow government will allow one question and investigate their current stance even deeper.) I have recently decided to take up studying with JWs again in spite of all I read on here. Let me tell you, I hate their policies regarding the handling of abuse cases. There is something dead wrong about that. But, I already knew this and still have a passion for studying the bible with them specifically. Here’s why. (The following are mainly for those who still believe on God) As I mentioned before, most of my spare time from the ages of 19 until now (37), have been studying religion. It has always intrigued me. It always made sense to me that “IF” there was a God, and “IF” there was an inspired book to lead people in a direction HE desired, and “IF” there was a “way”, and IF there all this that we see since man has fucked up in the Garden of Eden is just an alternate world that should have never taken place to begin with…and IF these are the “last days” (hell yea they are, I don’t need religion to tell me that)…”IF” all these are to be taken seriously…then (if you minus the top things that bother you about Watchtower/JWs), I come to the conclusion that this is THE ORGANIZATION that tried it’s best in these “days” (20&21st century) to round up as many people as possibly by way of a big ass preaching & teaching (door to door) campaign that this world will never see again. That one thing alone made me seek them out again. JW is an Org that is full of problems, full of sinful leaders, prideful and clueless sheeple, among other things that bring pain to thousands within it’s walls. But, after studying with other religions (including independent folks that just like to read in to the scriptures), I know there is corruption everywhere. But i believe God looks down and sees everything! He knows what is flawed. I’ll bet Moses was doing all kinds of things exactly like the JWs Governing Body. I’ll bet Korah in the bible had even more garbage to lay out there against Moses than we read in the Bible. But, still Moses was the one. The GB is one hell of a sinful group. But I believe the work of JWs is proof enough that they are special. Just simply teaching the “good news” in the unprecedented scale that we’ve scene is good enough. Everything that’s wrong with the ORG…God will deal with it. But according to what I read…this group had one job. One main job. They have done it. Now getting back to the government and the Gay movement…It’s all by design. Do you know what’s in your tap water? Food? Do you know what planes are leaving in the sky for us to breath? Listen to Alex Jones on infowars.com You’ll understand. So anyway, I am at work typing away…and now im rushing my thoughts but- well the bible is clear on the subject of homosexuality. That’s not to say we must treat them unkindly though.
Reply
 
 PeterB says:

 May 4, 2016 at 2:11 pm
 
*correction in my horrible grammar* It always made sense to me that “IF” there was a God, and “IF” there was an inspired book to lead people in a direction HE desired, and “IF” there was a “way”, and IF all this that we see since the beginning of time when man fucked up in the Garden of Eden is just an alternate world that should never have even taken place to begin with…and IF these are the “last days” (hell yea they are, I don’t need religion to tell me that)…
Reply
 
 Grace says:

 May 4, 2016 at 3:25 pm
 
So in your conspiracy, how do you know if the Watchtower wasn’t set up by these ‘shadow men’ as a way to draw people in & create a sheeplike attitude that would be easy to manoeuvre into the “new world order”. Is it coincidental that the Watchtower uses the same symbolic language that the Freemasons did?
Like the following:
“Jehovah”
 “The Watchtower”
 “Millenium Dawn”
 “The Golden Age”
 “New World”
 “New System”
Elders
 Anointed
 Admonish
 Brotherhood
Reply
 
 
 Big B says:

 May 4, 2016 at 5:05 pm
 
PeterB;
So glad to read your comments. My, my… so many “if’s and’s and but’s”. I have a question for you my friend, which also happens to be the same question I asked my Elders after 55 years of association before fading, namely; if Jehovah is infallible (the epitome of perfection), and the Holy Spirit emanating from Jehovah is also perfect, then it stands to reason that although written by imperfect men his word is also perfect. Yes?
However, his so called “spirit directed organization” (Watchtower) has been wrong so many times it staggers the imagination. Can the Holy Spirit be wrong? Not according to the Inspired Word! So if the Watchtower has it and we all agree the Holy Spirit emanates from God, I suggest to you that not only do they not have it, they have never had it.
For example; the three Cadillac driving, three home owing, drunken sot President of the Society, J.F Rutherford’s “Million’s now living will never die” speeches. This nonsense of his was pronounced back in the late 1920’s early 1930’s. Where are those millions now? Dead as a door nail.
Also his “Advertise, Advertise, Advertise the King and his Kingdom” oh, and while your cold calling the public from door to door, be sure to sell my books. He never went door to door once but had no problem sending others out dispensing his nonsense. And what Pulitzer prize, N.Y. Times best sellers they were to. Such winning titles such as: “Children”, “Enemies”, etc. You won’t find many of these ‘one word wonders’ around anymore.
Also, and I personally lived through this one, namely the mantra “Door to Door in ’74 to be alive in ’75”. If they had been telling the “Truth” we would be 41 years into the New System by this October. Well come to find out (New Light) we are not in the LAST DAYS but “the beginnings of the pangs of distress”.
Also with the July 15, 2013 Watchtower, C.T. Russell and followers have been proven not to be Gods instrument for dispensing spiritual food.
Don’t get me started on the fact that Jehovah’s Witnesses now have a “Rapture” as shown in the same Watchtower (see the chart).
This “New Light” can be interpreted to show that Armageddon is a long distance away, more so than anyone now living will see. In other words, the “Great Crowd” who are to survive are not even born yet! That assumes that Armageddon is not symbolic of something else in a book written in signs and symbols.
Because of their outing, by the Guardian newspaper, in reference to their membership as a NGO (Non Governmental Organization) in the United Nations, which they were members of for 10 years, they now suffer the extreme consequences of Jehovah’s displeasure.
 This is because they (the Watchtower) themselves identified the Scarlet Colored Beast in 1942-43 by then President N.H. Knorr. This idea was carried over in the Society’s 1963 book “Babylon the Great has fallen; God’s Kingdom Rules”. How could God’s spirit directed organization involve themselves with Satan’s organization, you might ask? AS WELL YOU SHOULD!
I challenge you to pose these questions to your body of elders and see what happens to you. Especially since you are now corresponding on an “apostate site.”
As a closing thought, as spoken on the site exjw critical thinker on youtube, “better to have “questions” you cannot answer than “answers” you cannot question”. 🙂
Reply
 
 PeterB says:

 May 4, 2016 at 5:57 pm
 
Gods people throughout the bible were never perfect like god is. Nowhere in the bible does it say that in the last days God would have a perfect Org. Nowhere!
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Gorbatchov says:

 May 4, 2016 at 1:29 pm
 
The video is going viral in Netherlands nationsl media. The branch office gave an official reaction that the video is for JW children and interested and not for the general public. It’s not intended for offending people. If it does on large scale it could be concidered to take it offline. It is out freedom of speech was his final conclusion.
 People reacted they will report the video to the local police.
 So, bad imago media for jw.
 Gorby
Reply
 
 Covert Fade says:

 May 4, 2016 at 1:53 pm
 
Wow, they actually used the “it’s not for you, it’s for our children only” line?
Yeah, THAT doesn’t sound sketchy at ALL! 😀 😀 Sounds like perfectly reasonable non-cult behaviour. Heh heh. Oh well, I guess that’s what happens when your PR team didn’t get a higher education…
Can you share a link? I’d love to see it
Reply
 
 
 
 Gorbatchov says:

 May 4, 2016 at 2:18 pm
 
@Covert fade, here are some links of the national media in the Netherlands covering the news about the jw.org video:
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/editienl/jehovas-maken-kinderfilm-homos-niet-welkom-het-paradijs
http://www.trouw.nl/tr/nl/4492/Nederland/article/detail/4294749/2016/05/04/COC-boos-op-Jehova-s-om-kinderfilmpje.dhtml
http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/kritiek-op-jehovah-s-getuigen-om-anti-homo-kinderfimpje~a4294809/
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1012/Nederland/article/detail/4294662/2016/05/04/Commotie-om-video-Jehovah-s-over-homohuwelijk.dhtml
http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/25726326/__Jehova_s__LHTB_s_naar_de_hel__.html
Reply
 
 Covert Fade says:

 May 4, 2016 at 2:50 pm
 
Wonderful! Thank you 😀
Reply
 
 
 
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19 Responses to Videos

 KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:

 August 25, 2013 at 6:55 pm
 
With every word they reveal and “impart” far more than they ever intended…
Reply
 
 
 george says:

 August 27, 2013 at 4:45 am
 
Sorry Cedars, I can only access the first video on my I pad. There are a lot of over sized play icons and they won’t work.
Reply
 
 
 Luke says:

 October 27, 2013 at 5:27 pm
 
Continue the good work on this site that expose what Watchtower Organization really are — a fanatic end-time driven cult that only serve interests of its leaders. I left this
 cult three years ago for good. My only regret is that I had not left the Watchtower Cult earlier! On Easter Sunday this year, I was baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and received into Eastern Orthodox Church, apostolic Church that preserved the Faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
Cedar, you have my blessings of your work on this site that
 will yet help millions of JWs to see the truth of so-called ‘Truth’.
Reply
 
 
 Fred says:

 November 2, 2013 at 12:09 pm
 
Forget taking your numbers from a 1974 yearbook if you question the amount of those killed, interned, etc get the numbers from the Holocaust museum. You forgot to mention the ‘JEWS’ were and its quoted several times in the Watchtower publications as it is related in the bible, “ONCE GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE” but they did not remain that because of their actions. Your quotes from WT publications are based on the latter that they fell out of favour in God’s eyes. They therefor were NOT written in an anti-Semitic nature. Many Jews have become JW’s over the years are they lesser beings because they were of Jewish blood?…ABSOLUTELY NOT! All races are equal so this video in my opinion is twisted in its presentation. Not to mention the ridiculous claim of Rutherford’s so called love letter to Adolf Hitler. No blinders on here, I have checked the facts. Sorry but this video paints an untruthful twist of events and statements about the WT as regards the comments on the Nazi’s and Jews.
Reply
 
 
 Palma says:

 February 28, 2014 at 3:48 am
 
Hi everybody! Hi cedars!
 I found this article about a discovery in egypt that brings light to the origin of story of joseph in the bible.
 What do you think?http://www.davidovits.info/the-lost-fresco-and-the-bible-my-new-book-in-french/
Reply
 
 
 Idris says:

 March 27, 2014 at 8:12 am
 
Thank you for this page, it has been a great help to me, as I seek the truth of the word of God, however I noticed in the video ‘Does the Bible speak of ‘Paradise Earth’ the speaker quotes Luke 21v43 twice, regarding Jesus word on the cross, there should be a correction note as the verse he mentions is in Luke 23 v 43.
 Keep up the good work
Reply
 
 
 Julia Orwell says:

 July 17, 2014 at 3:47 am
 
Been to internationals before and this elaborate souvenir thing is entirely new. The last one I went to in 2009, the last ones they had, had nothing like this so it’s not a matter of you having not noticed it in the past, it’s a matter of it being a new phenomenon.
 I theorize that the wt motives for this involve keeping the masses busy and therefore obedient. Jws would volunteer to do this because there are no other legitimate outlets for creative expression. Armageddon being near has nothing to do with it: it’s about keeping the sheeple busy and happy. Making stupid trinkets is also a team building activity as it involves jws working together, thus reinforcing the herd mentality jws have.
Reply
 
 
 frankie fernandez says:

 February 27, 2015 at 4:44 pm
 
dear friends I was baptized in 1974. Thank God I am no longer a member of the WT. Free at last and oh what a relief it is. A member of my former congregation who I considerd my best friend molested a minor. There was a big argument amognst the elders on the judicial committee. One elder who was a maverick, wanted to notify the police. But, instead they followed the instuctions of the society. They kept this crime against the child, hush hush. So as not to tarnish the name of Jehovah. But in reality it was a coverup to protect the wt’s reputation. Meanwhile this poor child that was raped has to carry the heavy burden of a victim for the rest of thier lives without compensation and without justice. While the abuser has remaind a member in good standing. The congregation he is attending now has not been notified that he is a sexual preditor.
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 November 17, 2015 at 1:14 am
 
Frankie.If I were you I would turn him into the police now even though it may have been several years ago he committed this crime. Many sexual predators get turned in years later after the crime is reveled. At the very least he will be investigated and his Name will be mud for being a creep.
 He deserves it and so does the WT for its NON protection of the flock and not caring for the victim but only their phony reputation.
Reply
 
 
 Lesley HUmphreys-Jones says:

 February 15, 2016 at 10:10 am
 
Tell the police.
Reply
 
 
 
 Kirtley W. Burggraf says:

 March 11, 2015 at 11:16 am
 
Tell me, since governing body members are elected (replacing someone who dies) at what point do do they become “divinely inspired” or “spirit guided”? Were they always thus in the lower ranks or does this just “happen” the moment that they are appointed? What’s Watchtower’s take on this?
Reply
 
 
 Alone in MD says:

 March 31, 2015 at 6:00 pm
 
Regards your video on the Memorial Service. I am one of those “non believers” married to a baptized witness. I go to just keep the peace but I’ve made it known that I consider this service one of the worst religious ceremonies that I have ever been to. “Anointed What”. Also it was announced at last years meeting that “this may be the last memorial service”. They are at it again. Thanks for the great videos.
Reply
 
 
 frankie fernandez says:

 May 10, 2015 at 9:50 pm
 
IF CHRIST WAS ENTHRONGED IN 1914, WHY ARE THE WITNESES STILL CELEBRATING THE MEMORIAL? CHRIST SAID THAT AFTER HIS ARRIVAL NO ONE WAS TO CELEBRATE THE MEMORIAL .ALSO HE SAID THAT THE DAY OF HIS PRESENSE, IT WILL BE LIKE LIGHTNING FROM ONE POINT OF THE EARTH TO ANOTHER. LIGHTNING TRAVELS AT THE SPEED OF 3500 MILES PER SECOUND. SO IT WILL TRAVEL AROUND THE GLOBE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE. HE ALSO SAID THAT ALL EYES WILL SEE HIM. NOT LIKE THE WTS THAT SAYS WE ARE IN HIS INVISIBLE PRESENSE.
Reply
 
 
 pj wilcox says:

 July 31, 2015 at 3:21 am
 
I watched the latest video of the inept elder being questioned by the commission. Who prepared this man for testimony? You all are aware of the dentist who shot Cecil the lion in Kenya? Well his life is over. He is in hiding. What he did ,did not break laws in Kenya and his is in a world of trouble with public sentiment. But this elder being questioned is far worse. He covered deeds that drove people to think of killing themselves. Should he not go into hiding? Is his life over? Has he know conscience? Emotion, caring? You know the answer. Bet ya, damage control is working overtime on this.
Reply
 
 
 Adrian says:

 September 8, 2015 at 3:32 am
 
I think the Royal Commission videos demonstrate that fragility of the governance within the WT society. Yes, it’s an Australia branch issue but cross examination only points to the seat of control on which the governing body members sit. Everything starts and stops with the governing body, they set the policy but where are they? Sitting comfortably in NY watching from a distance ready to abdicate any responsibility whatsoever. A governing body governs and leads but I see no leadership I see the followers talking and being bashed around the head with questions, all too easy for the legal team.
However, it might just be me but does anyone else not see the lawyer’s gap in knowledge regarding the fundamental rationale for the WT society policies, they fall back in their comfort zone knowing that they can say ‘well we don’t have the authority to go beyond the bible.’
It’s this gap in knowledge of the legal representatives which the WT society exploit. I mean nobody is going to ask ‘ where actually did this translation come from anyway?’ What were the academic qualifications of the translators? Is there a possibility that you have interpreted things wrongly or even worse, translated things incorrectly? If there’s a possibility that your interpretation on how to deal with modern day child abuse cases in congregations may be flawed, then are you in agreement that your policies could result in lasting harm to victims of abuse? In my view that translation is the ‘elephant in the room’ every scholar knows it’s perverse but no one is holding this cult to account. So easy to say it’s all in the bible but should they really be saying it’s all in the NWT instead?
The WT society in the videos almost give of an innocence as if to say, ‘ but that’s what we understand from the scriptures’, and I think it works in their favor, but a savvy legal representative would do well to tease out the basis for the rendering of certain verses on which doctrine, policy and organisational decisions are based. So far the WT Society appears to be one step ahead because their authority is not a person but a book, which they are ‘only trying to understand and live by’. Expose the origin of the NWT and the basis for so many ridiculous uncaring decisions is called into question.
Reply
 
 
 Rick Viger says:

 November 10, 2015 at 3:26 pm
 
Thanks John for all you do with your videos.
 I’m an ex JW for 40 years now. I hope your videos reach some witnesses and make them think. For all of you that have left Watchtower remember you made the right decision.
Reply
 
 
 S.T. says:

 November 24, 2015 at 9:48 pm
 
I was wondering if anyone has heard that Jehovah’s witnesses are telling there congregations that the end of this system could have only hours left? My sister who is a Jehovah’s Witness said they are preaching this at the congregations. Has anyone else heard this?
Reply
 
 
 Paul says:

 April 3, 2016 at 10:24 pm
 
Indoctrination and mind control in its purest form. Will the BS never end, and is hard for me to understand why JW’S put up with this.
Reply
 
 
 ian York says:

 April 13, 2016 at 4:15 pm
 
It is hard to fathom how anybody could believe in the legitimacy of Watchtower’s claim to be God’s only organization on earth today when considering it started with the likes if this oaf. One would have to have a belief in predestination, an unscriptural concept, in order to square the circle of the now regarded apostate beliefs if the founder members and today’s dogma.
Reply
 
 
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Jehovah’s Witness Cartoon Teaches Kids How To Cruelly Bully The Children Of Gay Parents [VIDEO] http://www.joemygod.com/2016/05/03/jehovahs-witness-cartoon-teaches-kids-how-to-cruelly-bully-the-children-of-gay-parents-video/ …



 



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Creepy Jehovah’s Witnesses cartoon brainwashes kids into trying to ‘change’ same-sex parents http://ow.ly/4nnRaQ 



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How about a little anti-gay propaganda for the kids? The Jehova's Witnesses sure know how to mess up their children. http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/why-watchtower-should-be-ashamed-of-its-new-homophobic-child-propaganda-cartoon …



 



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Why Watchtower should be ashamed of its new homophobic child propaganda cartoon
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My take on #watchtower's new cartoon that teaches kids to be #homophobic and judgmental https://youtu.be/qP2VffLez9k  via @YouTube








 
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Watch: Jehovah's Witnesses are using this creepy anti-gay cartoon to indoctrinate kids http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/05/03/watch-jehovahs-witnesses-are-using-this-creepy-anti-gay-cartoon-to-indoctrinate-kids/?utm_source=MOBT&utm_medium=Twittermob&Twittermob&utm_campaign=PNMOBT …



 



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The Jehovah's Witnesses have poured money into funding a cartoon that teaches kids to oppose gay parenting and try to "change" homosexuals.
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Calling all ExJWs and #JehovahsWitnesses!
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This quote perfectly encapsulates the process many Ex Jehovah's witnesses must go through. https://twitter.com/_four_horsemen/status/726731816141475840 …

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