JWsurvey . org recent article and comments posted in bold and italicized print - Part 1

Skip to content
JWsurvey 

Welcome

Cedars’ Blog

About JW Survey

Global Surveys
»










Videos

JW Broadcasting

Get Involved

Links

Contact Us
  


← The Friday Column: Leave no man behind
News Bulletin: Dutch reporter thrown out of District Convention →
 
The Friday Column: Why I don’t want to destroy Watchtower
avatar 
Posted on May 13, 2016
 
Kcj48ABcqI don’t want to bring down the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.
That might have a couple of you blinking in suprise. If you are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses reading this, you may have been told that so called “apostates” want nothing more than to destroy your organisation, and wipe your faith from the surface of the planet.
If you are an ExJW, you might think that someone who spends as much time as I do criticising Watchtower behaviour and policy must have the total destruction of the religion as an endgame.
Well, I don’t.
I believe that religious freedom is a fundamental human right, and that people should be free to believe whatever they want to believe. I disagree with virtually every doctrine held by Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I will defend utterly their right to believe them.
I draw the line, however, when religious doctrines directly call for behaviour that is actively harmful to others.
Thus we come to the point.
My goal is not to destroy the Watchtower organisation and convince every Jehovah’s Witness on the planet to leave the religion.
My goal is to force Watchtower to abandon specific practices that are causing significant harm to other human beings by bringing these practices to the attention of Governments, the media, the general public, and in some cases Jehovah’s Witnesses themselves.
What specific practices are these? I will outline them below, and state the specific conditions Watchtower must achieve in order for me to consider the matter resolved. I do not speak for JW Survey, or for my fellow activists in this matter. These are my personal opinions, and my person criteria for “Mission Accomplished” as regards my activism towards Watchtower.
Child abuse policies
Geoffrey Jackson appeared before the Australian royal commission to answer to concerns over child abuse mishandling
Geoffrey Jackson appeared before the Australian royal commission to answer to concerns over child abuse mishandling

I believe that no organisation can ever have a perfect record when it comes to handling child sexual abuse, and that it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
People are imperfect, systems break down, and sometimes, despite all best efforts from a religious community, a predator will enter the flock and attack a child.
But there is a big difference between a few bad apples slipping through robust safeguards despite the diligent best efforts of an organisation on the one hand, and a systemic failure from the top down to tackle an abuse problem that is a well known problem internally, but is carefully hidden from the outside world on the other.
As has been shown again and again, in open court, in government investigations, and in multiple documentaries, the policies that Jehovah’s Witnesses use to handle allegations of child sexual abuse are not only ineffectual, they are actively dangerous and harmful, both to the abuse survivor and the surrounding community.
The “two witness” rule. The policy of not reporting molesters to the police unless legally required to do so. The traumatising Judicial Committee process that sees a vulnerable victim forced to give harrowing details of their abuse to a star-chamber comprised of three untrained men.
All of these factors combine to create an environment that the Australian Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sex abuse found placed the children of Jehovah’s Witnesses at “significant risk of sexual abuse,” and extends to affect the children of non-Witness parents sharing a community with an unreported abuser.
What is even worse is that most Witnesses are in the dark as to the details of these policies, and also to the scathing criticism these policies have been subjected to. They only see the casual dismissals by the Governing Body, who then warn Witnesses to flee from any news report or comment that shows the organisation in a bad light, and have no idea how prevalent child abuse actually is within their religion, or how vulnerable their children really are.
This situation cannot be allowed to stand.
◾Watchtower needs to be forced (via legal and financial penalties if needs be) to bring their worldwide child protection policies into line with what legal professionals and child psychologists believe to be “Best Practice” to safeguard children and prosecute molesters.
◾Watchtower needs to admit past flaws in its policies, compensate and apologise to abuse survivors, and openly do the above in full view of its membership.
Blood Transfusions
I believe that an adult Jehovah’s Witness has the right to refuse a blood transfusion.
Surprised? You shouldn’t be. I believe that a mature adult has the right to decide what happens to their own body. A mature adult has the right to refuse any and all medical treatment they so wish, even if this results in their death. I may consider their reasons foolish and absurd, but I respect the right of a mature adult to make this decision for themselves.
However, at present, Jehovah’s Witnesses are not making this choice of their own free will. Every Jehovah’s Witness facing this choices knows that, should they choose to accept a transfusion and live, they may face a Judicial Committee. Should they be unable to convince three Elders that they are sufficiently repentant for taking blood and staying alive, they will be disfellowshipped.
It is hard to argue, therefore, that Jehovah’s Witnesses currently refusing blood are doing so without coercion. No one should be made to choose between death on the one hand, and life without their family and friends on the other.
◾Watchtower needs to make it clear that there will be no official or unofficial sanction should an adult Witness decide to accept a transfusion.
Additionally, every year, Jehovah’s Witness parents place the lives of their children at risk by refusing life saving medical treatment for their children on purely religious grounds.
The infamous issue of Awake that celebrated the deaths of Witness children who died due to Watchtower’s policy on blood.

This practice is actively encouraged by Watchtower, who once printed an article celebrating children who had died needlessly due their parents refusal of treatment. Additionally, any parent who disobeys Watchtower’s instructions may face discipline from the congregation, and possible shunning.
A child is not capable of giving rational, informed consent in this matter; especially not one who has been raised all their life subjected to the indoctrination of their parents, and who relies on their parents to make all other decisions in life for them.
◾Watchtower needs to teach that the refusal of blood is a personal decision for a mature adult, that a child is not capable of making the choice to refuse, and that parents cannot make it on their behalf. It should be made crystal clear that children are neither expected or encouraged to refuse blood.
Shunning
Shunning is rife among Jehovah's Witnesses - a practice that breaks up families
Shunning is rife among Jehovah’s Witnesses – a practice that breaks up families

I believe that Watchtower has the right to disfellowship and to disassociate people.
Yes, I will say that again.
I believe that Watchtower has the right to disfellowship and to disassociate people. Any private group or organisation has the right to decide who does and does not hold membership of their group. Sports clubs. Charities. Financial companies. Religions. Such groups have the right to remove membership from a member who is no longer considered to meet the requirements for membership.
What Watchtower does not have the right to do, however, is demand that those who have left their organisation be shunned by family and friends.
Of all the harmful practices currently employed by Watchtower, the practice of shunning is by far the most widespread.
Simply put, any who officially leave the religion, either involuntarily (by disfellowshipping) or voluntarily (disassociation) must expect to undergo the harrowing and cruel ordeal of shunning. Any family and friends who remain as Jehovah’s Witnesses are required to treat the leaver as if they were dead, to not even say a greeting to them.
Whilst there is an unofficial third option known as “fading” (to simply cease all Watchtower related activities and no longer attend religious meetings) this option is far from reliable, as Watchtower still considers such a person to be subject to their rules and regulations. Many examples exist of Witnesses who have “faded” for many years nonetheless being tracked down and disfellowshipped once they move in with an unmarried partner, criticise the religion, or celebrate Christmas. The testimony of Geoffrey Jackson during the Australian Royal Commission confirmed that this was possible.
Additionally, many faders find themselves effectively shunned regardless, with friends and family ceasing contact and treating them as dangerous association. This means that children who are baptised and then grow up to no longer believe the faith must choose between their beliefs and their friends and family. It means adults who wish to excersise their right to change their religion (or choose no religion at all) must make the same harrowing choice.
Shunning is essentially a particularly vile form of blackmail. “Believe what we tell you to believe, and do what we tell you to do, or you will never see your loved ones again.”
◾Watchtower must repeal the sanction of shunning as part of Disfellowshipping or Disassociation, and must take active steps to alter Witness culture so that Witnesses do not expect to shun or be shunned when a person leaves the religion of their own accord or is removed from it against their will.
There are many other aspects of Watchtower doctrine that I dislike or consider harmful; Watchtowers teachings on divorce laws, sexual morality, evolution and so forth. But if the sanction of shunning were removed, these doctrines cease to be harmful to others.
If a beaten wife were free to divorce her abusive husband and remarry without being shunned…
If a gay Jehovah’s Witness were free to leave the religion and live according to their true self without being shunned…
If a Jehovah’s Witness was free to state that he felt the creation account of Genesis to be pure metaphor for the evolutionary process God set in motion without being shunned…
See? Without the threat of shunning, Jehovah’s Witnesses are free to genuinely make their own choices and live the lives they honestly think to be correct, instead of towing the line and flinching every time an Elder looks their way and flexes the “Shunning Stick.” Even if their choice means that the religion no longer considers them to be a member, that choice no longer costs them their family and friends.
Granted, relationships might alter if the family and friends are not broad minded enough to accept the change, but these relationships are not arbitrarily severed. And once shunning becomes a thing of the past, one can quite see Witnesses culture evolving with it, becoming more accepting of association with past members. Indeed, it would probably be instrumental in starting to erode the poisonous “us and them” mentality that Watchtower currently enforces upon its flock. The “information control” that Watchtower enforces upon its congregations would likewise erode once those who left were free to discuss their reasons for doing so with those who remain in.
In the 21st century, religiously enforced shunning is inexcusable. It must go.
Mission Accomplished?
boxIf Watchtower were to enact the changes I have outlined, I would be content to cease my activism against them.
I would still consider their religion to be full of doctrines and beliefs that I consider to be utterly without merit, but they would no longer be a harmful cult; they would simply be another religion whose doctrines a person was free to research, accept, or discard of their own free will.
Granted, it may well be hard to envisage a situation where such reforms took place within the Organisation. It may will be that such harmful doctrines continue to feature front and centre of Watchtower policy until the Organisation crumbles under the weight of legal and financial sanctions, public notoriety and a burnt out membership. Scientology is already going this way; Watchtower should take note.
Nonetheless, this is not my goal.
Whether this ignominious ending comes to pass is entirely down to Watchtower. I remain hopeful that legal, financial, and public pressure can in time make the Organisation cede some of the required ground in order to survive. Recent events have shown that the current leadership’s taste for public humiliation and hardship is significantly decreased. Russell and Rutherford used to face their opposers in public debates and in the courts. Today’s Governing Body flee in panic from both, and when forced to appear in public court they put in a performance that bespeaks a distinct lack of capability and vigour for the fight. Their PR attempts are weak willed and desperate for public adoration, and when placed under pressure their representatives react in a fearful, confused way.
Watchtower is on the wrong side of history in this battle, and lacks the stomach and the tools required to fight it. One way or another, it will lose.
Until then, whilst these damaging practices remain in place, my fellow activists and I  are not going anywhere.
We have work to do.
covert-fade-signature
 
 
 
 
 

Share this:









in
Share
.

Print
.
Like this:


Bookmark the permalink.
 
← The Friday Column: Leave no man behind
News Bulletin: Dutch reporter thrown out of District Convention →
 
171 Responses to The Friday Column: Why I don’t want to destroy Watchtower

Newer Comments →
 
 Brother from Austria says:

 May 13, 2016 at 1:50 pm
 
Thank you for your activities!
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 May 13, 2016 at 1:52 pm
 
The pressure will continue. Watchtower’s policy of letting awkward stories die will not work. The tales of Watchtower abuses will continue to be aired via every medium available until Jehovah’s Witnesses are comprehensively reformed or disappear down history’s toilet.
Reply
 
 
 Markie says:

 May 13, 2016 at 1:52 pm
 
It seems to me you will be criticizing the Watchtower until you die or you get bored with it and move on with your life. They could careless what you or your fellow activists think or say. I am not saying this to cause an argument or inflame you have but you know that’s the truth.
Reply
 
 Nullandvoidboy says:

 May 13, 2016 at 2:14 pm
 
@ Markie….someone chooses the path of activism not for personal, emotional, satisfaction…. It’s to expose wrongs….that’s done with criticisms…. and the greater good that’s served is to bring out in the open, that which is hidden…. If intentions are correct, the activists do NOT get bored and “move on”…. So when you said, ” I didn’t say this to cause an argument or inflame”…..I need to ask you, are you really sure about that??… It seems that you don’t get what activism is about.
Reply
 
 Winston Smith says:

 May 13, 2016 at 3:20 pm
 
Valid points Nullandvoidboy. I live in the U.S.A. About 250 years ago my forefathers had an issue with the King of England. They were activists. The King could care less what they said. But their activism was valid and vital and sparked a new age of freedom.
150 years ago in my land, millions of people were enslaved based on the color of their skin. Some people thought this was wrong. They became activists and got things to change.
Markie, you seem to state that activism is pointless because the oppressors don’t care about the oppressed. But isn’t that always the case with oppressors? History shows that activism works.
I’ll leave this thread with two quotes that I especially appreciate that can be applied to this situation:
 1.) The only thing needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
2.) The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who claim neutrality in times of moral crisis.
WS
Reply
 
 Ethan says:

 May 14, 2016 at 8:55 am
 
@Winston Smith.
 Your well thought out comments and two points at the end have me slack jawed and shaking my head… I’ll be thinking about what you said all day. Thank you, sincerely.
 Oh and, umm (clearing throat and pulling on collar)..
 Covert Fade! As always, great article..
Reply
 
 
 
 Markie says:

 May 13, 2016 at 4:00 pm
 
When you have 8 million people trying to convert people all over the globe. Spending millions of hours it’s going to continue to grow despite all its failings. In my congregation all the newer ones are all special needs people, easy to sway. I actually agree with most of what he said but he is not going to change anything. And I do think some day he will get bored with his activism. Sorry.
Reply
 
 Covert Fade says:

 May 13, 2016 at 4:34 pm
 
If I can help one person, it will have been worth it. Anything else is gravy 🙂
Reply
 
 John ship says:

 May 14, 2016 at 4:10 am
 
Your comments help me to stay sane..after 50 years in the org.all i can say is yes you are doing the right thing .you are giving hope to many that are hanging in WTs cage .who are woken up but still have family in .if WT was like other religions were you can question or just walk away fine .but is not .

 
 
 
 Eric Arthur Blair says:

 May 13, 2016 at 9:08 pm
 
Markie, those 8 million are welcome to keep trying to convert people, the point is, what are they converting them to? That’s what needs to change, as the article eloquently explains.
Did you see the movie “spotlight” by any chance? Was that investigative team of four wasting their time? I don’t think so. They couldn’t solve the whole problem, but they did affect change and accomplish some good. Did it bring down the Catholic Church? No, but it contributed to wider recognition of abuse and the systemic failures of the church. It also empowered the community to demand change, and gave some acknowledgement and (hopefully) healing for victims. That’s the point. And hopefully it makes the church more accountable and transparent, and more importantly, removes the policies and practices that perpetuate abuse long term.
Reply
 
 
 Peter van der Brink says:

 May 13, 2016 at 9:38 pm
 
Am a JW still as member and critized very hard the policy of the GB. The elders gave me two times a so called “yellow card”without any Scriptural evidence that the GB are right. Bethel lawyers in Netherlands can not do nothing because when i am banned of given a free meaning in the Kingdom Hall( WT study) my lawyer shall bring them to court. Am baptized and never shall obey the GB today.Am even visit the Seventh Day Adventist, they are acting much more adult than the blockheaded and scared looking JWs. Free meaning is important so even faith and not fear…
Reply
 
 
 ronnyb says:

 May 15, 2016 at 1:45 am
 
@ markie, we no longer live in the dark ages, 1940- 1975. Nowadays people do research on automobiles, houses, schools ,hospitals and religions are no exception. In the old days,people were gullible and accept almost any preachings that would incite fear into them. No longer the case. People now research articles like this one and draw intelligent coclusions based on the foundations and history of certain religions, so this activist ,like you say, is giving people a perspective of the other side of the coin ,so he is not wasting his time and he is making sure people have a fair chance of making the best choice in their lives, unlike 70 years ago when people were coerced simply by fear.
Reply
 
 M Saurus says:

 May 16, 2016 at 9:14 am
 
Activism is not pointless, WS – agreed.
HOWEVER, these people are not slaves. They are not being held against their will. They have the free will and choice to GET OUT of this crazy org.
I know, they “can’t” because it’s too “painful” – they will lose their “friends”.
Seriously? Losing friends and so-called family is a reason to remain in a toxic, insane religion?
If all the people who claim they hate the WT but just “can’t” leave got out it would collapse.

 
 
 
 
 
 Fooledmeonce says:

 May 13, 2016 at 2:16 pm
 
The Watchtower and its followers DO VERY MUCH CARE what former members and activists have to say!!!
 They will even find and subpoena former members who aren’t too angry or opposed to their religion.
 This cult, like every other cult, relies on attracting new members. While I was in, it was well known among the elders and circuit Overseer’s that, “We bring them in the front door and push them out the back door.” The JWs constantly churn through new people but that is really slowing down with all of the bad publicity available to possible converts. This hurts them right where it counts.
 This cult has an expiry date built into them. As 1914 fades into the distant past, and the scare tactics become stale, the cult will collapse in on itself. It may remain as some kind of shadow of itself but it won’t be anywhere nearly as powerful as it once was. It already is 10 years past its zenith and a much smaller, weaker organization of what it was just a decade ago.
Reply
 
 Matias says:

 May 13, 2016 at 3:02 pm
 
Smaller and weaker? Where did you get that from? I mean, I wish that’s true, but as far as I know they are growing in members at around %1.5 annually, which is slightly above the growth in population. And that figure is decreasing, but still growing in absolute numbers.
Reply
 
 Eyes opened says:

 May 13, 2016 at 4:38 pm
 
Hi Matias,
 Not sure how long you’ve been with the organization. Myself over 40 yrs. before I recognized the truth about the truth. This is not the org it once was. Leadership has become increasingly weak. Their fear makes them threaten members and they make feeble attempts to spiritually bully the r & f. You now only need to push a button on a smart device to do your ministry. Might as well go back to the phonograph, you don’t need to know anything. Not that using our devices is bad, I love technology. But this simplified ministry doesn’t make us smarter. We still need to be able to defend our faith. I can’t do that with a button. We used to be considered weak if we didn’t get at least 10 hrs a month in the ministry. Notice they don’t publish that anymore. My guess is the average is probably below 7 or even less. You may see what seems like growth but the foundation holding things up is not so strong. The organization has gone back to needing milk and feeding us milk, no more solid food. Yes those of us who are pre-1975 have seen a lot of changes and I don’t think for the better.
 Regards
Reply
 
 Ian Howat says:

 May 14, 2016 at 4:19 am
 
Agree with you after 50 years in i can see the weaknesses the younger jws cant defend the faith any more unless the got jw .org at their fingertips .the leadership has no dignity any more.they are robots..knorr franz and Rutherford had drive that these guys lack .look at the things they come out with . The tight pants is an example of spiritual bancruptcy .the WT studies are shallow and lacking substance even boring. .unless the bcome more like the old WT the rush to digital jws will shrink the org . They only keep the numbers up by the children getting to be unbaptised publishers…

 
 
 
 
 dee2 says:

 May 13, 2016 at 6:43 pm
 
As long as there is the belief that this world we live in is inherently defective, unimportant and worthy of destruction, and that divine intervention is going to bring about its passing and replace it with something better, whether in this dimension or in a supernatural one, the JWs will find converts.
Ever since the emergence of Jewish Apocalypticsm which anticipated that divine intervention would have ended the world over 2000 years ago, there have been those among Christianity who believe that the world will end during their lifetime.
This end of the world by means of divine intervention belief, has become a traditional cultural outlook which has embedded/cemented itself in the psyche of the western world. And so every generation that comes along has persons who believe that the world is going to end during their lifetime. Interestingly, however, the world has persistently refused to end.
Until this mindset is replaced with the realization that the world is our responsibility, and thus, if it should come to an end, even an apocalyptic one, it will be our own fault (apart from the sun imploding) then people will continue to believe otherwise and the JWs will find converts.
Reply
 
 
 Markie says:

 May 13, 2016 at 7:26 pm
 
Smaller? Weaker? I would say just the opposite. Not sure what you have been reading. Perhaps wishful thinking on your part?
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 May 13, 2016 at 8:44 pm
 
Markie,
How do you know how many JWs there really worldwide?
 How can you be sure about this?
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 May 14, 2016 at 5:00 am
 
Three new kingdumb halls have been built where I live in the past 4 or 5 years. And they all have two to three congregations meeting in them. So I would have to say there has to be some growth.

 
 
 
 
 eeee says:

 May 14, 2016 at 2:02 am
 
Well, let’s see what will happen. I sincerely pray God keeps me alive to see what these self serving organisation will turn to in say 40 years time.
But currently, their tactics has change greatly, it’s almost like they employed some sort of rebranding expert to help them. Today, they use technology, videos and small animation to feed their fantasy on most of their members and that you can see them nodding their heads in amazement.
And currently, their much emphasis on preaching, reporting is getting to much and even makes many to resent it. To many, though they don’t know, it seems like the WT has much to gain from this preaching and disciple making more than God himself.
At some point, a sister hissed that this videos at meetings is too much and I laugh. Maybe, at some point in time, they will be showing videos at all meetings, I don’t know.
Reply
 
 Winston Smith says:

 May 14, 2016 at 3:46 pm
 
The org is definitely evolving. Many of their tactics today are reminiscent of the televangelists (700 club and similar). When I was growing up in the cult, such tactics would have been poo-pooed as being too closely related to “false religion.” Maybe the new tactics indicate that they are getting ready to go more mainstream. We can only hope that their teachings and rules get more mainstream too.
WS
Reply
 
 Big B says:

 May 18, 2016 at 6:56 am
 
@Winston Smith,
Who cares if they “go more mainstream”? Personally speaking, I don’t care where they go. Hopefully, to the Millerite “Great Disappointment” oblivion they rightly deserve. There will always be a core remnant of knuckleheads (Sheeple) but I predict that the WTBTS will implode in my lifetime. I am 64 now. They’ve reached their zenith and are finished, nowhere to go but downhill!
Besides, I wouldn’t go back to that hypocritical, doomsday, pedophile protecting, Amway-sales cult if Jesus Christ came down and said to me personally to return (which he will never do).
If Armageddon is real, and not symbolic like the rest of Revelation, the Kingdom Hall would be the last place of refuge I would run to!

 
 
 
 
 
 Gardian says:

 May 14, 2016 at 5:33 am
 
They really could care less what these people think say or put on the internet.. the GB has been very good at paying them no mind whatsoever.. the most effective way to irritate and infuriate people.. is to treat them as of no account at all.. and the GB is very skilled at this.. so they can keep coming with their pressure… We’re not going anywhere!
Reply
 
 
 Average Joe says:

 May 14, 2016 at 6:51 am
 
I’m sorry Markie but I have to agree with David Mitchell on this one. I can’t let your bad grammar slide. The correct phrase is “they COULD NOT care less about what…activists think.” If they COULD care less about it, that would imply that they DO care about what they say, even just a little bit.
 Also the word is “care less”, two words in fact, and not “careless”, which means something completely different.https://youtu.be/om7O0MFkmpw
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 May 14, 2016 at 10:35 am
 
Good for you! You must be so proud of yourself.
Reply
 
 Average Joe says:

 May 14, 2016 at 2:20 pm
 
😉
All in good humour mate.
Reply
 
 Eric Arthur Blair says:

 May 15, 2016 at 3:11 am
 
Haha, love it!

 
 
 Markie says:

 May 15, 2016 at 8:26 am
 
What a little prankster!

 
 
 
 Chiafade says:

 May 15, 2016 at 3:31 pm
 
Markie in response to your “they are growing comment” (which I find hilarious hahaha thanks for the laugh). 4 or 5 Kingdoms built in your area vs the 10 or so that have closed in my area with the congregations combining to fill up surrounding hall’s.
So using your stats and mine, which one seems the more likely? Unless you live in an impoverished country which is where the JW focus is right now. Growth in those countries is believable. But still not explosive which judging from your past comments is what you seem to imply. You may not like that but it’s true. Also, anything printed in the JW yearbook is HIGHLY suspect as it doesn’t take into account the VAST number of inactive. Plus it was written by watchtower. That equals lost credibility.
Now if you want an example of explosive growth look no further than the Protestant church in China. They are baptizing an average of 500,000 people a year. With a membership estimated to be up to 40 million.
The JW business model is a failure. They cannot sustain themselves indefinitely using their current system. Add to that annual lawsuits that seem to be growing and you can easily see a finite future.
Please don’t be silly. Of course Watchtower cares what the apostates say. I have several gb member talks. In one of them Tony Morris makes a quote from the silent lambs website almost word for word. He never states where he got it from but it was easy to find because he was speaking about silent lambs. He called them “an apostate organization that throws bloody Teddy bears at kingdom halls”. To quote Daniel Sydlik (former gb) when a bethelite found a very spiritistic book in the bethel library : ” you can’t write about it if you don’t read about it”. Indeed Mr. Sydlik.
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 May 16, 2016 at 8:50 am
 
Thanks for returning the favor. “Your status vs mine”? Really? If you want a real laugh reread what you wrote. I think you might wet yourself with laughter!
Lets go with your stats! Those JWs are nothing but liars and your stats are nothing but the truth.
Could you please indulge me and give me the addresses of the ten kingdom halls that have closed in your area? It would really help when I quote your “stats”. I would give you the addresses of the new kingdom halls in my area but what would that accomplish since we know your “stats” are the absolute truth.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 PeterB says:

 May 13, 2016 at 2:07 pm
 
@CovertFade Your arguments are totally valid. I totally agree with your article.
Reply
 
 
 Vox Populi says:

 May 13, 2016 at 2:17 pm
 
I want to congratulate you, Covert Fade, on another excellent article.
If the creator has given us a conscience, then why shouldn’t we as individuals have the freedom to live our lives according to our conscience and not be penalised for it.
I look forward to reading your future articles.
Reply
 
 
 Paul Small says:

 May 13, 2016 at 2:23 pm
 
Terrific Article @covertfade I whole heartedly concur
Reply
 
 
 JBob says:

 May 13, 2016 at 2:35 pm
 
Some matters are not open for debate; the blood issue did thaw somewhat but like many other Wt matters, the ultra-conservatives and hardliners seem to have slammed the door on being progressive. The gay thing–especially now with a spotlight on pedophilia, the gays are being used as a scapegoat, or “red herring”–if they’re anti-gay, the public will cease believing they’re possibly sheltering pedophiles. This is disgusting and bigotry as pedophilia is not the same as homosexuality.
Another point I’ve noticed in scanning the horizon of dissenters and those who are booted or rejected, some come from very hardline conservative denominations and would expect nothing less in terms of strict morality codes. Typically, persons in more progressive religions would listen to JW’s and express empathy for freedom of expression but wouldn’t be inclined to have this structure imposed on their lives.
So change from the top meets resistance (more rebellion in the ranks, even splintering) from below as the momentum of “what we have taught over the years” collides with “how we’d like to transform what we taught and believe”. The history in Raymond Franz’ memoirs is an example of this–the progressive changes he and others were guiding the Watchtower to make ran into the resistance of the ultra-conservatives and conservatives.
Reply
 
 
 Matias says:

 May 13, 2016 at 2:53 pm
 
I think you have omitted the worst thing they do: spreading ignorance and a distorted view of reality
Reply
 
 
 Jerry Lahjalahti says:

 May 13, 2016 at 2:59 pm
 
No, no I cant agree.
Without:
 Child abuse
 Blood Transfusions
 Shunning
What’s there left of the Watchtower???
False prophecies?
 Fear of Armageddon?
 Giving up your retirement plans for knocking on doors whole your life?
NO, besides the arguments. The Watchtower is a dangerous cult. And it must FALL.
Reply
 
 JBob says:

 May 16, 2016 at 4:47 pm
 
@Jerry I see where you may feel that the Watchtower as a dangerous group should lead everyone to evacuate or avoid joining, but since they hold families hostage, and have been dropping large hints regarding shunning being only way to be an “ideal JW” [so you too can have a Memorial/Funeral service as a JW in “good standing” at the KH (like Bro. Nelson and unlike former Bro. Jackson)], fact is they will always have a base population–smaller or larger, perhaps frustrated and gagged, but some followers.
If Pastor Russell can still garner a core of hardline followers, I see a future where the Watchtower perhaps at reduced and minimal existence has adherents. In the Burned Over District near to where JW’s evolved, there is an example in the Shakers which once were numerous, yet today are nearly extinct. Nearly extinct, because there are still some persons who gravitate toward this obscure group.
One issue JW’s have which was revealed in a mocking documentary is that JW dogma doesn’t foster settling down to create a family. I can hear the grumbling already–settle!–yes, JW’s do have families, and children, but pay close attention to the training material coming out. For instance, the previous year’s “What Is True Love?” video. Examine it closely, does it offer a guide to coping with any issues deriving from family life or is it laying out an ideal life pattern which few will be able to achieve and sustain? It’s the latter.
This is why when heavy-duty issues are taken in for counseling before the elders and MS bodies, you get light counseling: advise to study more, take the issue to Jehovah in prayer (pray for what?), etc. Rarely are individuals given practical advice on using coping skills to overcome difficult issues or dealing with individuals, or how to seek strong secular therapy, medical treatment or marital counseling. In the video released last year, once more psychology and marital counselors are portrayed with a deprecating view.
Resourceful videos for the skeptics among us:
“Selling God” and “Waiting for Armageddon” (seek and ye shall find, knock and the door will open..)
Mirror of JW videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC4LLNWctxg
Typical secular advice on finding lovehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH8pzfcgu3o
Interesting (yet rambling) interview with son of JW’s who escaped [take away: make a plan before you step away from home (& JW’s)]

Reply
 
 
 
 Sharon says:

 May 13, 2016 at 3:17 pm
 
I believe in religious freedom, but this is a cult. The WTBTS is a money making publishing company and the leaders are getting rich off the slave labor of the masses of cult members (publishers) who put money in the donation boxes so the literature will keep coming and they scurry around like a bunch of worker bees distributing that literature and trying their best to recruit new worker bees to do the same.
All the abuses are for the purpose of getting and keeping publishers and bringing in wealth for the leaders. You can’t get rid of these abuses and leave the cult. Even if you could get rid of the current abuses, new ones would crop up because they serve a purpose.
We’re not talking about a religion but a money making cult.
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 May 13, 2016 at 7:38 pm
 
Your comment is kind of ridiculous. A lot of people say it’s a publishing company designed to make its leaders rich. I don’t see where any of the leaders are accumulating wealth. They are just a bunch of uneducated guys thinking they are doing right. The only perk they get is to occasionally fly around the world like rock stars. Yes the have sold off Brooklyn but they just put the money back in the contaminated site at Warick. I don’t see them sport new cars, nice suits etc….They have to keep plugging away at bethel or they will get their arses kicked out with nothing like so many others.
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 May 13, 2016 at 8:46 pm
 
Markie,
How do you know what the true financial position of the WT is?
 Have you ever seen an audited financial statement from the WT?
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 May 14, 2016 at 5:03 am
 
I would have to say your guess is as good as mine.
Reply
 
 Big B says:

 May 14, 2016 at 7:44 am
 
Hi Markie;
Here is a site to show how J.W.’s account for some of their monies collected at circuit assembly’s. It’s entitled “Why is there always a Deficit at the Circuit Assembly of Jehovah’s Witnesses?”https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APb1RpfjCrA
 Very informative video as is this Friday Column. 🙂

 
 
 
 
 Winston Smith says:

 May 14, 2016 at 3:56 pm
 
You also have to keep in mind that’s it’s not all about money. It is also about POWER. Having power over others is like a drug and once you get a taste of it, you often want more.
Another fact to consider is that the organization has become an entity unto itself. It seeks to self perpetuate which necessitates the constant publishing. Since about 1/2 of all converts end up leaving, it constantly needs fresh blood to replenish itself.
WS
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Christopher says:

 May 13, 2016 at 3:19 pm
 
Great artical however until the current GB die off I don’t see any change forth coming maybe they will just implode from the pressure that would be just fine with me.
Reply
 
 
 Katydid says:

 May 13, 2016 at 3:22 pm
 
Very well put! Add in post-secondary education & include conscience-driven family celebrations, & I would be happy. It sounds so simple, and Christian, doesn’t it, without labeling people? The practices you described have all but destroyed my large & beautiful family in multiple ways, and has left me feeling friendless & abandoned. But the Watchtower has stated they will not change, so I don’t know if there is any hope. Keep on writing & speaking out, please, as truth is important.
Reply
 
 
 Winston Smith says:

 May 13, 2016 at 3:29 pm
 
Valid article Covert Fade. While I agree that these issues need to change, I think that they are symptoms of a larger problem. These issues stem from the GB’s belief that they are spirit-directed by God and have cornered the market on biblical truth. This sense of elitism, leads them to believe that there is nothing wrong with enforcing harmful policies on the rank and file members. What it comes down to is a matter of humility, which they entirely lack. Furthermore they have become accustomed to the power they wield and of course power corrupts.
As Ray Franz brought out, the GB are captives of their own concepts in regard to their organization. This is why I believe it is unlikely that they will change on their own. External political and financial pressures could potentially help force some changes to be made. But I don’t think that a full change will occur without some truly spectacular circumstances.
As I mention above, this does not invalidate your activism. Activism is both necessary and vital to bring about change. But I would look for change to be initiated from factors external to the organization rather than internal ones.
WS
Reply
 
 Eric Arthur Blair says:

 May 13, 2016 at 9:28 pm
 
I completely agree Winston.
Yes, fantastic article covert fade, outstanding reasoning and very balanced. But the top of the list for me is their claim to be the one true religion, appointed and directed by Holy Spirit. I think everything flows from there, especially the policies you outline which, ironically, also disprove that claim (along with their false predictions and false teachings.) I guess the distinction you make is between what people believe and what they do, and I agree that they can believe (and claim) what they want, but the harmful policies need to change, even if their bs doesn’t.
Reply
 
 
 
 Ren says:

 May 13, 2016 at 4:01 pm
 
Amen, Covert Fade
Reply
 
 
 Charles Huff says:

 May 13, 2016 at 4:05 pm
 
Very well said.
Why do you chose to “Covert Fade” yet call yourself an “activist”?
Do what you want, but activism means being front and center. If I’m wrong the ones you love have no idea you feel the way you do, is that “activism”?
Reply
 
 Covert Fade says:

 May 13, 2016 at 4:39 pm
 
Yep. Activism is about what you do, not about exactly who knows you’re doing it 🙂
(Besides, right now I can probably do more this way in some areas. Sometimes subtlety gets more done than a full frontal assault 😉 )
Reply
 
 
 
 Mama Joy says:

 May 13, 2016 at 4:12 pm
 
The problem is that everything they believe IS HARMFULL to others.
Afterlife- they believe in genocide for nearly all except them.
 Blood- no blood even to children to save their life.
 Disfellowshipping- shunning and abandoning family members which divides families.
 Holidays- no holidays to have fun and share in Christ’s birth.
 Memorial- is the same ritual in a Satanic Black Mass by passing the body and blood of Christ.
 God- their belief in an unforgiving fearful God that punishes and judges Jehovahs Witnesses.
 Control- elders need to be asked before a party or major decision outside of the hall.
 Abuse- children victims go to elders for help and protection but instead they are told to hide it.
 Door to door work- Jesus specifically says NOT to go from door to door, but rather go to a house where you are wanted and stay there awhile teaching that house the good news in exchange for room and board then when you are not wanted leave and shake the dust off.
 Prostlatizing- they do not spread the good news that Jesus death erased our sins, instead they peddle magazines for a publishing company.
 Slaves- they are made to work for free. I say made because if you don’t then you aren’t considered that spiritual.
 Brainwash- brainwashing happens when a group or individual says “it’s not me telling you to do this, it’s God telling you”. So if you don’t do it then you aren’t listening to God or “Gods Organization”.
Obey- you MUST obey, or risk losing family, friends, work acquaintances, etc who are JWs. You CANNOT question elders decision without risking disfellowshipping over questioning “Gods Authority”.
Reply
 
 Bad Penny says:

 May 14, 2016 at 3:35 am
 
Mama Joy – Well said.
 Sorry, Covert Fade, I want them GONE, not just reformed. The world without JWs or any religion would be a better place, I think, but “maybe I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one” …… Imagine, J. Lennon.
Reply
 
 
 
 Jeffreycanning says:

 May 13, 2016 at 4:17 pm
 
You might not want WT destroyed, but I am sure there are many like me who hate them like the plague… If you had your family torn assunder by shunning and felt the pain of your children treating you as though you never happened to be you too might want the orginisation destroyed…
Reply
 
 Covert Fade says:

 May 13, 2016 at 4:35 pm
 
Totally get the pain. Not suggesting for one moment that anyone who has been mauled by the Cult is wrong for wanting to see it gone. A world without Watchtower would indeed be a better world, but I don’t know what the chances of 8 million JW’s suddenly apostatising are. Much better chance of the leadership being forced to moderate some things to dodge a legal and financial kicking.
Sorry to hear you’ve had a rough time. Genuinely hope you’re doing okay.
Reply
 
 
 
 Eyes opened says:

 May 13, 2016 at 4:44 pm
 
This is an excellent article. You have expressed views my husband and I are totally on board with. Thanks for your thoughtful article.
 Regards
Reply
 
 
 Alice says:

 May 13, 2016 at 4:46 pm
 
Hate the religion but not the members. They are what Christ described, they are tossed about by wolves in sheep’s clothing. Something like that. I forgot how that saying goes. JW Disfellowshipping and disassociation is used as emotional blackmail.
Reply
 
 HaveATallOne says:

 May 13, 2016 at 5:27 pm
 
@Alice, The phrase originates in a sermon by Jesus recorded in the Christian New Testament: Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves (Gospel of Matthew 7:15, King James Version). The other verse you are thinking of may be at Ephesians 4:14, it reads, Then we will no longer be infants, tossed about by the waves and carried around by every wind of teaching and by the clever cunning of men in their deceitful scheming
Reply
 
 HaveATallOne says:

 May 13, 2016 at 5:31 pm
 
Thank you, HaveATallOne. I got the two mixed up.
Reply
 
 Eric Arthur Blair says:

 May 13, 2016 at 9:48 pm
 
You are right though Alice, I knew many beautiful people over the last 20 years. I fit into that third category – faded, but effectively shunned. I’ve lost all my friendships, which is disappointing. They won’t call me because they are frightened of what they will hear and they know they will never win a scriptural debate with me. I feel sorry for them because I know they are held captive, but it’s tough rebuilding your life and I wouldn’t wish what I’ve been through these last two years on anybody. That said, I know that they are all going to have to face their own mortality in this system and the realisation that everything they were promised was false. And I hope I can still be there for them.
In the meantime, I wish Watchtower would come clean and admit that they are not spirit inspired but just a bunch of men trying to fathom a, quite frankly, confusing and unfathomable book. That way at least people might have time to adjust; to think for themselves again and truly exercise their free will. And they would hopefully be there to support one another through the transition, agree to disagree where they do, and accept those who chose their own path without recrimination or disdain.
I live in hope, but like my old CO told me, a fish rots from the head down. He was more right than he knew, and it’s the own true thing he taught. A bit like Geoffrey Jackson at the ARC, he swore to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, but the only true word he spoke was when he admitted that it was presumptuous of them to claim to be gods spokesperson on Earth.
But it’s the sheep that suffer, like you say. My parting words to the body of elders I was serving on, which was mired in petty politics, backstabbing and nepotism, was to remind them that they were wolves in shepherds clothing.
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 May 14, 2016 at 5:09 am
 
I would love to ask old Geoffrey what he meant by his presumptuous remark.

 
 
 
 
 
 Peter van der Brink says:

 May 13, 2016 at 9:30 pm
 
Very good written !
Reply
 
 
 
 Maria F. says:

 May 13, 2016 at 4:49 pm
 
Great, Great, Article..
Reply
 
 
 Sharon Christensen says:

 May 13, 2016 at 6:55 pm
 
Excellent article! Unlike the heavy burden and control .. JW.org puts upon it’s believers….Jesus said His yoke kindly, load light…and all that is epected of us is to show love to one another… Love moves ones like you to care enough for people to continue on with the activist work against the Wt….it must be done out of love and care cuz it is no easy task…thankyou to you Covert, and all who make this a part of their life. Jw survey is a something to look forward to each week…thanx to you and all who make a difference in many of our lives who have suffered from the horrors of Jw.org. Keep up the good work…thankyou sooo much!
Reply
 
 
 Peter van der Brink says:

 May 13, 2016 at 9:28 pm
 
Watchtower = Jehovah. The Governing Body not need to explain the history, 1914,1919 and all failed claims or mistakes.Millions died with a given hope from Watchtower teachings. Deut. 18:22 shows that the Watchtower organisation shall be destroyd as Babylon .They claim the name of God, other religions do not. Further the arrogance of the GB is even a big problem, so there is nothing left. Maybe from inside a coup is coming to replace the 7 of Brooklyn and finish the North Korean Propaganda machine of http://www.jw.org
Reply
 
 
 Sarah says:

 May 13, 2016 at 11:41 pm
 
WT’s secret policies should be stopped. Members have the right to know which rules they are being judged by. The Scribes and Pharisees had a large list of their own rules. These were not secret but the practice of extra rules made the Pharisees come under the worst condemnation from Christ (Matt 23). It was worse than his comments on other sins. So, create extra rules and then keep them secret – that surely has to be the worst sin ever.
Reply
 
 
 Concorde says:

 May 14, 2016 at 4:51 am
 
The problem with the GB saying they are the faithful and discreet slave results in the r&f adhering to everything they say and when doctrine is changed, the excuse is that there is new light. Checking the internet is viewed as apostasy so, as the ARC said, JWs are a captive audience. God’s teachings are confused with the teachings of the GB but it is the GB that demands obedience even though “some things cannot be understood at the time”. How’s that for mind control?
Reply
 
 
 Jeffreycanning says:

 May 14, 2016 at 4:56 am
 
Getting too serious, time for a larf… Our overseer late 1974. “This is probably the last talk I will give in this system of things…” – Born in 16 yr old. “Where will we all live during the thousand year rain???. – Middle aged 20 yr dubs baby sitting for us one night… “No we weren’t bored, we watched a lovely bible movie on TV” Checked the TV guide when they left… ‘Ben Hur’. – M/S. “It will be good when those ancient ‘Christians’ like Moses and Noah get resurrected wont it..! And he had three bible studies going… Sorry couldn’t help it…
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 May 14, 2016 at 5:29 am
 
What makes me laugh is when people say that jehovah needs those new buildings in Warwick for the new system. In reply I always say “really with all the buildings all over the world, Jehovah needs those ones specifically? Enough to take people away from the preaching work to build them when we are deep in to the time of the end?” They usually don’t know how to respond.
Reply
 
 
 
 Twmack says:

 May 14, 2016 at 5:31 am
 
Some well reasoned points CF and I fully support freedom
 Of choice, But I cannot look at that Awake cover,
“Youths who put God first”, and not want this foul, sickening
 Quasi religion completely obliterated.
Reply
 
 
 David M. says:

 May 14, 2016 at 5:39 am
 
I just wanted to make a correction to one of your points. If a JW unrepentantly accepts a blood transfusion he is considered to have disassociated himself after an investigation is made by a committee (but not a judicial one). This change was made in 2000 so WT could claim there are no sanctions against JWs who take blood. Bulgaria was instrumental in forcing them to make this change.
Reply
 
 Tilli says:

 May 16, 2016 at 2:04 am
 
That’s right. They simply assign new terms to the same things. You get investigated and judged by a committee of three elders, yet this is not called a judicial committee. If they consider you unrepentant and they will tell your congregation that you’re no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Yet, you’re not disfellowshipped, but you have left the organization yourself. Fantastic. But one great difference is there: As you are considered to have disassociated yourself, you’re unable to appeal the decision. In the end, with this new treatment you’re in a worse position than before.
Reply
 
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 May 14, 2016 at 5:50 am
 
Well done Mr C this was so well written and the points you made I can only say Hear Hear!. Well as always i do have something to say. I’m not talking to athiests but those of us who have a belief in god are actually disappointed in our religion. We do not want to defect or apostasize or abandon our core. but we inevitably have to because despite the profession of being god’s spirit directed org and having the audacity to use god’s alleged name in their title They do not have any authenticity left. They do not adhere to the bible, the gospel of jesus or Christianity. They do not entitle them selves Christian either.It is only a matter of time before a genuine seeker of jesus or a bible reader will abandon jehovahs witnesses because it is fraudulent. The stupid policies you so eloquently wrote about are the politics of their confused ideas and nothing to do with god , jesus, or the bible. So my point is that even if they rescinded all the cultish behaviour and false doctrine they still wont represent god they will still be in error and still doomed to blindness and failure. Someone made the point that the only ones coming in are special needs or in my vocabulary, wierdos deadbeats and dropouts or children under a certain age. (sorry that’s a bit nasty). But it may grow but there is no success because it is only poor people and the dim who will be attracted to this way of life or the terminally bored who cannot think of anything better to do with their time. It is all a bit of a damp squib really and on my better days quite amusing to see the demise. That in no way to minimise the hurt and pain of victims but really this was a terrible cult to have been associated with and were we not so foolish? So I say keep up the activism it is a light shining on a dark place. Cheers Ruthlee.
Reply
 
 
 Eyes opened says:

 May 14, 2016 at 6:24 am
 
I would like to share a point to consider…several comments have to do with growth of the organization seen in membership numbers and construction of new halls and so on. My personal view is that this is not an educational/publishing organization…it is a real estate conglomerate. They own property throughout the globe. They have “forgiven” all Kingdom Hall debts, in other words thanks for the property. Oh now you owe us rent. The new halls etc., being built are built with free labor and designed to be attractive to potential commercial buyers. Don’t be fooled by all the building work. These buildings will be sold as needed to keep the numbers up, in their finances that is. Their investment in these beautiful halls is greatly reduced because of all the willing volunteers. Imagine the profit if a building is sold. How manipulative to take advantage of honest hearted ones who think they are doing this for God and fellow believers. Just some personal conclusions I’ve come to.
Regards
Reply
 
 Big B says:

 May 14, 2016 at 8:02 am
 
@Eyes opened;
Bingo! Check out new purchase in Florida!
http://gotoby.com/news/article/2245/Watchtower-Buys-Former-FAA-Training-Facility-in-Palm-Coast-for-$7025000
Reply
 
 Gary says:

 May 14, 2016 at 8:44 am
 
Terrible weather Florida has.
Reply
 
 
 JBob says:

 May 16, 2016 at 4:49 pm
 
Settles it, they are a bunch of “space cadets”…
Reply
 
 
 
 Sval says:

 May 14, 2016 at 8:55 am
 
Wow! That is a valid point. Never thought about that.
Reply
 
 
 John ship says:

 May 14, 2016 at 9:34 am
 
New light to come .go back to small groups in homes because the GT is almost upon us..dint neen many elders as all talks are videos from the .org. …now sell off ALL kingdom halls because we need money to help the needy during the GT…
Reply
 
 
 
 John Plummer says:

 May 14, 2016 at 6:24 am
 
The writer of this article makes some interesting points but the bottom line is that the Watchtower Society is an organization that counsels its members who have very sick children to deny permission for essential blood transfusions. To take your own life because of a religious belief is tragic (and stupid) but to effectively kill a child because of somebody else’s interpretation of something written in an ancient book… is pure wickedness.
The writer also ignores how there must now be many thousands of current and ex J.W’s now living in abject poverty because they trusted their leaders’ promises that they would be part of that 1914 generation that “will not pass away” and they therefore made no financial provision for their old age.
The Watchtower Society is surely one of the most despicable scams on this planet and the sooner it is put out of business… the better!
Reply
 
 Jeffreycanning says:

 May 14, 2016 at 3:07 pm
 
That’s what I like tp hear… bravo
Reply
 
 
 
 KAY GH says:

 May 14, 2016 at 7:43 am
 
Thank you. Am just drafting my resignation letter at the cafe, after a year of finding the truth behind the watch tower and it’s doctrine through your medium and jwfacts.com i have decided to leave. my last meeting as a JW was on 12/05/2016. Can’t continue in this cult anymore.
 Because of my association with the WT ORG, my sister who happens to be the only surviving sibling i have since our parents died before i turned Ten, has disowned me. Worse of all is i stop enrolling as a systems and network engineer because of WT ORG’s policy on higher education. Am out of work but still applying as an electrician because i have been trained as one and would be glad to use the knowledge i acquired while mixing and controlling cameras at regional conventions in broadcasting.
 Thank you for setting me free. Veritas Liberat!_John 8:32
Reply
 
 JBob says:

 May 16, 2016 at 4:54 pm
 
“Worse of all is i stop enrolling as a systems and network engineer because of WT ORG’s policy on higher education.”
Curious, who told you getting a network engineering training would be “higher education”?
Once more, a zone of confusion because Watchtower throws out edicts but doesn’t often crystallize or quantify what is considered “higher education”–high school graduation? vocational courses that aren’t available in high school? community college courses? a DIY course at a local hardware store?
In this fog of war, everyone is trembling in fear before the Watchtower–afraid to do and afraid not to do.
Reply
 
 
 
 Telescopium says:

 May 14, 2016 at 8:11 am
 
Fun fact:
 The February 2017 Watchtower (Study Edition) on apostasy is now being researched by the Writing Dept. They’re planning on using a quote from this article by Covert Fade as follows:
“My goal is… to destroy the Watchtower organisation and convince every Jehovah’s Witness on the planet to leave the religion.”
Just kidding…
Reply
 
 
 Big B says:

 May 14, 2016 at 10:43 am
 
Hello to all,
It is my firm belief/opinion that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society will morph into something else because of the bad branding the organization has received as of late.
If all properties, holdings, etc. are under a new name (say JW.org) and the WTBTS ceases to exist or disappears (as in bankruptcy) would not the child molestation cases against the WTBTS disappear as well?
I can also envision further reductions in printing with the “Awake!” and the “WatchTower” magazines being pulled from the public distribution or phased out altogether. Study lessons or information (Kingdom Ministry) to be available on-line to be printed out by you at your cost.
Just wondering out loud. I agree wholeheartedly with this article. WTBTS implosion is definitely immanent, it’s just a matter of time.
“You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.” –credited to Abraham Lincoln 16th President of the United States.
Reply
 
 
 Adam Heckathorn says:

 May 14, 2016 at 12:56 pm
 
I haven’t read all the comments but I think one point should be taken to heart. I have been surprised by how many have told me that although they attend meetings and even go out in the ministry they don’t believe it, any of it. The local Elders where I live in Moorhead MN have demonstrated by their actions that they don’t really believe it, at least not all of it. I think we would be surprised how many just go
 along with it to avoid consequences. I think the governing body is well aware of this hence the severe consequences to control the behavior of the masses.
Reply
 
 
 Frankie's Market says:

 May 14, 2016 at 2:25 pm
 
This article contains reasonable demands for the WT. But the shunning policy will never dropped. As the writer for the article states, many of the JW beliefs and scriptural interpretations are faulty, if not total nonsense. The practice of shunning is crucial for the GB to keep the rank-and-file in line. If active publishers were freely allowed to associate with so-called apostates, their minds will finally be exposed to ideas and lines of reasoning that was previously kept off limits by WT propaganda. Before you know it, you will have many of the rank-and-file questioning WT teachings to their elders. The elders, in turn, would have a heck of a time defending WT doctrine and predictions that have proven false over the years. Really, the only means of keeping the flock in line has been to get the rank-and-file to swallow and accept WT teachings on faith, not reasoning. And the tool for elders to rein in those who would have the audacity to question even a smidgen of doctrine would be to threaten DF’ing and shunning. That is why you are not likely to see the GB ease up on the shunning policy. For them to do so would be to take a step towards the disintegration of the JW organization where a small group of men in Brooklyn (the GB and their helpers) wield the power of God over 8 million followers. Who among here thinks that those men are going to voluntarily give up their exalted status? Not a chance of that happening, if you ask me. They are drunk with power and enjoying every minute of their ego trip.
Reply
 
 Bad Penny says:

 May 15, 2016 at 4:31 pm
 
Frankie’s Market –
Excellent points. I agree that the WT shunning policy has to remain to keep the rank and file in their place.
 After all, wouldn’t we all love a chance to discuss things freely with former associates without them feeling threatened.
 The brothers who continue to be blinded by the ‘light’ will inevitably remain in the dark.
Reply
 
 
 
 TeraG says:

 May 14, 2016 at 6:01 pm
 
Wow! Love this article. My thoughts exactly! Thank you covert fade, very well written
Reply
 
 
 Ready 4 to Fade says:

 May 14, 2016 at 7:34 pm
 
https://www.change.org/p/united-states-attorney-general-investigate-the-watchtower-society-of-jehovah-s-witnesses-re-child-sexual-abuse?recruiter=373488240
Reply
 
 Ready 4 to Fade says:

 May 14, 2016 at 7:38 pm
 
This is for anyone who missed the post in Cedar’s Twitter feed. It’s a great way to anonymously have your voice heard.
Reply
 
 
 
 enuffsenuff says:

 May 14, 2016 at 7:57 pm
 
I was reading your comments Winston Smith and I have to agree, POWER is the drug. In fact Jesus prophecy Math24;48-9 says “But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ 49 and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards”. I don’t believe he was talking about literal drunkards. Men in particular have the problem of being drunk with power, why else would billionaire Trump run for the US Presidency? The pay packet is not in his class of earnings.
 And Markie keep up the good work in saying what the current reality is with regards to WT thinking. They GB do indulge themselves a little when it comes to rings, watches and expensive well tailored suits- but then again don’t all televangelists?
 A dislike of the WT doesn’t mean others wont like them and support them (not me) but I like your comments.
Reply
 
 
 MamaJane says:

 May 14, 2016 at 8:08 pm
 
I ABSOLUTELY HATE THIS RELIGION! IDIOTS!
Reply
 
 
 Garrett says:

 May 14, 2016 at 8:54 pm
 
Please put my name down for those who wish to destroy this cult, genocide the members and cut the throats of all the Governing Body live on Pay Per View.
Reply
 
 Outandabout says:

 May 15, 2016 at 1:31 am
 
Now that’s a bit harsh, Garret, but I understand your sentiment.
 The words ‘Jehovah’ and ‘Watchtower’, to me, are now toxic and I loathe them. I would love to see the GB arrested for crimes against humanity, and if they’re are so keen for Armageddon to come about and be transported back to the bronze age, they should be granted that wish. The Watchtower building should be demolished, ring fenced, and then the GB put to work with hammers from dawn til dusk, breaking up the rubble while being pelted with stones by any of the abused who wish to do so. The GB are showing no quarter, so none should be shown. They have blood on their hands and must pay.
 I understand and agree with Covert on one level, and the rank and file are not to blame of course, but on another level…….
Reply
 
 Markie says:

 May 15, 2016 at 11:59 am
 
Gosh, it sounds like you have been shown some loving counsel by some spirit appointed elder in the past.
Reply
 
 
 
 

Newer Comments →
 
Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *
Comment

applications-education-miscellaneous.png
Comment posting guidelines:
Kindly observe the following requirements before posting any comments to our articles or pages:
◾ABUSIVE COMMENTS - Do not post comments that include swear words or may be considered abusive, lewd, blasphemous, obscene or threatening
◾ILLEGAL COMMENTS - Do not post comments that condone or propose illegal activity, or that breach copyright law
◾OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS - Do not post comments that are off-topic and bear no relation to the page or article
◾RELIGIOUS NEUTRALITY - Do not post comments that are evangelical in nature or may be construed as imposing one person's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) over those of another
◾LANGUAGE - Visitors from all countries and language groups are welcome. You may post comments in languages other than English, but we would appreciate if you could make any such comments brief. We would also be grateful if you could run any such comments through Google Translate and convert these to English, but this is not an absolute requirement.
◾LINKS - You may post links to third party websites, so long as (1) you limit these to 2 links per comment, and (2) the content on these links doesn't contravene ANY of the first four points. Specifically, you may not post URLs to websites that are evangelical in nature. Our links page has an extensive list of such sites for any who are curious about Christian beliefs in the context of Jehovah's Witnesses.
JWSurvey.org thanks all visitors in advance for respectfully observing these guidelines. Any who persistently fail to do so, despite warnings, may find themselves blocked from making further comments at the discretion of the site moderators, whose decision will be final and not open for debate.
 
Name *
Email *
Website
  


 Notify me of new posts by email.
  
 

 

Click on 
Visit JWfacts.com for more information on JW beliefs
Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses
JW Recovery forum
Barbara Anderson's Watchtower Documents resource
Visit JWstruggle.com for helpful information on exiting JW mind control Visit TAZE.co for discussion on Jehovah's Witness developments

 
 
Support JWsurvey
Help us make continued improvements to this website and its content.
 
       
 
Article Categories
◾Apostates (32)
◾Blood transfusions (14)
◾Books (6)
◾Cedars' Blog (232)
◾Cedars' Story (4)
◾Celebrity JWs (3)
◾Child Abuse (68)
◾Child Indoctrination (23)
◾Divine Direction (5)
◾Domestic Abuse (3)
◾Doomsday Predictions (4)
◾Downsizing (13)
◾Evolution and creation (7)
◾General Information (8)
◾Governing Body (44)
◾Higher education (3)
◾History and scandals (17)
◾Homophobia (2)
◾JW.org (10)
◾Life Stories (16)
◾Mental health (9)
◾Mind Control (2)
◾Mini-Surveys (5)
◾News (225)
◾Property sales (6)
◾Publications (11)
◾Science (1)
◾Shunning (20)
◾Support (7)
◾Survey (16)
◾The Friday Column (24)
◾Undue influence (23)
◾Warwick headquarters (5)

Search JWsurvey

  

Listen to JWpodcast

Check out the latest episode of JW podcast! 

Latest John Cedars video
 

Popular JW sites in other languages
Languages         
More languages...

Select... Croatian Czech Dutch Estonian Finnish 1 Finnish 2 French 1 French 2 French 3 German 1 German 2 Hungarian Italian 1 Italian 2 Italian 3 Japanese Polish 1 Polish 2 Polish 3 Portuguese 1 Portuguese 2 Romanian Russian 1 Russian 2 Russian 3 Serbian 1 Serbian 2 Serbian 3 Slovak Spanish 1 Spanish 2
 
 
 
Open Offer

Open Offer to all bethelites
 Do you work at Brooklyn, Patterson or Wallkill? If so, please click here.

Our Promise
Making corrections
 Is there something incorrect or unfactual on this website? If so, please let us know and we will correct it.

Cedars’ Twitter Feed
 

 
 
Who's Online
◾0 Members.
◾0 Guests.

Reader Comments
◾KimJones on The Friday Column: No Girls Allowed – Growing up as a Female Jehovah’s Witness
◾JWIntellect on The Friday Column: No Girls Allowed – Growing up as a Female Jehovah’s Witness
◾Ren on The Friday Column: No Girls Allowed – Growing up as a Female Jehovah’s Witness
◾Caroline on The Friday Column: No Girls Allowed – Growing up as a Female Jehovah’s Witness

Menu
◾About JW Survey
◾Contact Us
◾Experiences
◾Get Involved
◾Global Surveys ◾2011 Global Survey
◾2012 Global Survey
◾2013 Global Survey
◾2014 Global Survey
◾2015 Global Survey
◾JW Broadcasting
◾JWawake.com
◾Links
◾Videos
◾Welcome

Login
 ◾Login
 


Copyright © 2011-2013 JWsurvey.org. Site design and support by The Small Web Master.

    StatCounter - Free Web Tracker and Counter     



http://jwsurvey.org/shunning-2/the-friday-column-why-i-dont-want-to-destroy-watchtower/comment-page-1#comments








Skip to content
JWsurvey 

Welcome

Cedars’ Blog

About JW Survey

Global Surveys
»










Videos

JW Broadcasting

Get Involved

Links

Contact Us
  


← The Friday Column: Leave no man behind
News Bulletin: Dutch reporter thrown out of District Convention →
 
The Friday Column: Why I don’t want to destroy Watchtower
avatar 
Posted on May 13, 2016
 
Kcj48ABcqI don’t want to bring down the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.
That might have a couple of you blinking in suprise. If you are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses reading this, you may have been told that so called “apostates” want nothing more than to destroy your organisation, and wipe your faith from the surface of the planet.
If you are an ExJW, you might think that someone who spends as much time as I do criticising Watchtower behaviour and policy must have the total destruction of the religion as an endgame.
Well, I don’t.
I believe that religious freedom is a fundamental human right, and that people should be free to believe whatever they want to believe. I disagree with virtually every doctrine held by Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I will defend utterly their right to believe them.
I draw the line, however, when religious doctrines directly call for behaviour that is actively harmful to others.
Thus we come to the point.
My goal is not to destroy the Watchtower organisation and convince every Jehovah’s Witness on the planet to leave the religion.
My goal is to force Watchtower to abandon specific practices that are causing significant harm to other human beings by bringing these practices to the attention of Governments, the media, the general public, and in some cases Jehovah’s Witnesses themselves.
What specific practices are these? I will outline them below, and state the specific conditions Watchtower must achieve in order for me to consider the matter resolved. I do not speak for JW Survey, or for my fellow activists in this matter. These are my personal opinions, and my person criteria for “Mission Accomplished” as regards my activism towards Watchtower.
Child abuse policies
Geoffrey Jackson appeared before the Australian royal commission to answer to concerns over child abuse mishandling
Geoffrey Jackson appeared before the Australian royal commission to answer to concerns over child abuse mishandling

I believe that no organisation can ever have a perfect record when it comes to handling child sexual abuse, and that it is absurd to pretend otherwise.
People are imperfect, systems break down, and sometimes, despite all best efforts from a religious community, a predator will enter the flock and attack a child.
But there is a big difference between a few bad apples slipping through robust safeguards despite the diligent best efforts of an organisation on the one hand, and a systemic failure from the top down to tackle an abuse problem that is a well known problem internally, but is carefully hidden from the outside world on the other.
As has been shown again and again, in open court, in government investigations, and in multiple documentaries, the policies that Jehovah’s Witnesses use to handle allegations of child sexual abuse are not only ineffectual, they are actively dangerous and harmful, both to the abuse survivor and the surrounding community.
The “two witness” rule. The policy of not reporting molesters to the police unless legally required to do so. The traumatising Judicial Committee process that sees a vulnerable victim forced to give harrowing details of their abuse to a star-chamber comprised of three untrained men.
All of these factors combine to create an environment that the Australian Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sex abuse found placed the children of Jehovah’s Witnesses at “significant risk of sexual abuse,” and extends to affect the children of non-Witness parents sharing a community with an unreported abuser.
What is even worse is that most Witnesses are in the dark as to the details of these policies, and also to the scathing criticism these policies have been subjected to. They only see the casual dismissals by the Governing Body, who then warn Witnesses to flee from any news report or comment that shows the organisation in a bad light, and have no idea how prevalent child abuse actually is within their religion, or how vulnerable their children really are.
This situation cannot be allowed to stand.
◾Watchtower needs to be forced (via legal and financial penalties if needs be) to bring their worldwide child protection policies into line with what legal professionals and child psychologists believe to be “Best Practice” to safeguard children and prosecute molesters.
◾Watchtower needs to admit past flaws in its policies, compensate and apologise to abuse survivors, and openly do the above in full view of its membership.
Blood Transfusions
I believe that an adult Jehovah’s Witness has the right to refuse a blood transfusion.
Surprised? You shouldn’t be. I believe that a mature adult has the right to decide what happens to their own body. A mature adult has the right to refuse any and all medical treatment they so wish, even if this results in their death. I may consider their reasons foolish and absurd, but I respect the right of a mature adult to make this decision for themselves.
However, at present, Jehovah’s Witnesses are not making this choice of their own free will. Every Jehovah’s Witness facing this choices knows that, should they choose to accept a transfusion and live, they may face a Judicial Committee. Should they be unable to convince three Elders that they are sufficiently repentant for taking blood and staying alive, they will be disfellowshipped.
It is hard to argue, therefore, that Jehovah’s Witnesses currently refusing blood are doing so without coercion. No one should be made to choose between death on the one hand, and life without their family and friends on the other.
◾Watchtower needs to make it clear that there will be no official or unofficial sanction should an adult Witness decide to accept a transfusion.
Additionally, every year, Jehovah’s Witness parents place the lives of their children at risk by refusing life saving medical treatment for their children on purely religious grounds.
The infamous issue of Awake that celebrated the deaths of Witness children who died due to Watchtower’s policy on blood.

This practice is actively encouraged by Watchtower, who once printed an article celebrating children who had died needlessly due their parents refusal of treatment. Additionally, any parent who disobeys Watchtower’s instructions may face discipline from the congregation, and possible shunning.
A child is not capable of giving rational, informed consent in this matter; especially not one who has been raised all their life subjected to the indoctrination of their parents, and who relies on their parents to make all other decisions in life for them.
◾Watchtower needs to teach that the refusal of blood is a personal decision for a mature adult, that a child is not capable of making the choice to refuse, and that parents cannot make it on their behalf. It should be made crystal clear that children are neither expected or encouraged to refuse blood.
Shunning
Shunning is rife among Jehovah's Witnesses - a practice that breaks up families
Shunning is rife among Jehovah’s Witnesses – a practice that breaks up families

I believe that Watchtower has the right to disfellowship and to disassociate people.
Yes, I will say that again.
I believe that Watchtower has the right to disfellowship and to disassociate people. Any private group or organisation has the right to decide who does and does not hold membership of their group. Sports clubs. Charities. Financial companies. Religions. Such groups have the right to remove membership from a member who is no longer considered to meet the requirements for membership.
What Watchtower does not have the right to do, however, is demand that those who have left their organisation be shunned by family and friends.
Of all the harmful practices currently employed by Watchtower, the practice of shunning is by far the most widespread.
Simply put, any who officially leave the religion, either involuntarily (by disfellowshipping) or voluntarily (disassociation) must expect to undergo the harrowing and cruel ordeal of shunning. Any family and friends who remain as Jehovah’s Witnesses are required to treat the leaver as if they were dead, to not even say a greeting to them.
Whilst there is an unofficial third option known as “fading” (to simply cease all Watchtower related activities and no longer attend religious meetings) this option is far from reliable, as Watchtower still considers such a person to be subject to their rules and regulations. Many examples exist of Witnesses who have “faded” for many years nonetheless being tracked down and disfellowshipped once they move in with an unmarried partner, criticise the religion, or celebrate Christmas. The testimony of Geoffrey Jackson during the Australian Royal Commission confirmed that this was possible.
Additionally, many faders find themselves effectively shunned regardless, with friends and family ceasing contact and treating them as dangerous association. This means that children who are baptised and then grow up to no longer believe the faith must choose between their beliefs and their friends and family. It means adults who wish to excersise their right to change their religion (or choose no religion at all) must make the same harrowing choice.
Shunning is essentially a particularly vile form of blackmail. “Believe what we tell you to believe, and do what we tell you to do, or you will never see your loved ones again.”
◾Watchtower must repeal the sanction of shunning as part of Disfellowshipping or Disassociation, and must take active steps to alter Witness culture so that Witnesses do not expect to shun or be shunned when a person leaves the religion of their own accord or is removed from it against their will.
There are many other aspects of Watchtower doctrine that I dislike or consider harmful; Watchtowers teachings on divorce laws, sexual morality, evolution and so forth. But if the sanction of shunning were removed, these doctrines cease to be harmful to others.
If a beaten wife were free to divorce her abusive husband and remarry without being shunned…
If a gay Jehovah’s Witness were free to leave the religion and live according to their true self without being shunned…
If a Jehovah’s Witness was free to state that he felt the creation account of Genesis to be pure metaphor for the evolutionary process God set in motion without being shunned…
See? Without the threat of shunning, Jehovah’s Witnesses are free to genuinely make their own choices and live the lives they honestly think to be correct, instead of towing the line and flinching every time an Elder looks their way and flexes the “Shunning Stick.” Even if their choice means that the religion no longer considers them to be a member, that choice no longer costs them their family and friends.
Granted, relationships might alter if the family and friends are not broad minded enough to accept the change, but these relationships are not arbitrarily severed. And once shunning becomes a thing of the past, one can quite see Witnesses culture evolving with it, becoming more accepting of association with past members. Indeed, it would probably be instrumental in starting to erode the poisonous “us and them” mentality that Watchtower currently enforces upon its flock. The “information control” that Watchtower enforces upon its congregations would likewise erode once those who left were free to discuss their reasons for doing so with those who remain in.
In the 21st century, religiously enforced shunning is inexcusable. It must go.
Mission Accomplished?
boxIf Watchtower were to enact the changes I have outlined, I would be content to cease my activism against them.
I would still consider their religion to be full of doctrines and beliefs that I consider to be utterly without merit, but they would no longer be a harmful cult; they would simply be another religion whose doctrines a person was free to research, accept, or discard of their own free will.
Granted, it may well be hard to envisage a situation where such reforms took place within the Organisation. It may will be that such harmful doctrines continue to feature front and centre of Watchtower policy until the Organisation crumbles under the weight of legal and financial sanctions, public notoriety and a burnt out membership. Scientology is already going this way; Watchtower should take note.
Nonetheless, this is not my goal.
Whether this ignominious ending comes to pass is entirely down to Watchtower. I remain hopeful that legal, financial, and public pressure can in time make the Organisation cede some of the required ground in order to survive. Recent events have shown that the current leadership’s taste for public humiliation and hardship is significantly decreased. Russell and Rutherford used to face their opposers in public debates and in the courts. Today’s Governing Body flee in panic from both, and when forced to appear in public court they put in a performance that bespeaks a distinct lack of capability and vigour for the fight. Their PR attempts are weak willed and desperate for public adoration, and when placed under pressure their representatives react in a fearful, confused way.
Watchtower is on the wrong side of history in this battle, and lacks the stomach and the tools required to fight it. One way or another, it will lose.
Until then, whilst these damaging practices remain in place, my fellow activists and I  are not going anywhere.
We have work to do.
covert-fade-signature
 
 
 
 
 

Share this:









in
Share
.

Print
.
Like this:


Bookmark the permalink.
 
← The Friday Column: Leave no man behind
News Bulletin: Dutch reporter thrown out of District Convention →
 
171 Responses to The Friday Column: Why I don’t want to destroy Watchtower

← Older Comments
 
 It'sJustMe says:

 May 15, 2016 at 7:26 am
 
I do not want to destroy watchtower too. How could I ? But if some governments felt like to confiscate some JW.Org infrastructures for real humanitarian needs I would not be sad. On the contrary I would be delighted even so much delighted.
Reply
 
 
 Paranoid Android says:

 May 15, 2016 at 10:48 am
 
Nice article CF.
 However;
 The WT sets up it’s members to suffer and die as martyrs.
 There is nothing noble, inspiring,or respectable about suffering and dying for an American publishing company.
It is not holy sacrifice.
It is merely a waste.
 It is just tragedy.
The GB has the audacity to spread lies and inaccuracies worldwide, all the while demanding that it’s members give away their dignity, freedom and even their lives for it.
In the more tolerant countries of the West, this happens through doctrinal sanctions as mentioned in the above article.
 However, if you live in Russia, or Saudi Arabia, Iran, Nigeria, North Korea and many other less tolerant nations, WT will demand that in the name of –
False teachings
 False promises
 False prophecy
 and
 A false sense of righteousness
– it’s members oppose the Governments, the law of the land.
 This leads to persecution, suffering, imprisonment, torture and Death.
 All the while the GB sit in the safety of their American Throne room, dictating who should die for them.
There is nothing poetic about this.
 It is not honourable to suffer and die for a lie.
Rather, it is just dreadfully tragic.
How many have suffered ad died for the WT?
How many more will suffer and die for the WT?
The WT does not deserve a future.
Reply
 
 Outandabout says:

 May 15, 2016 at 1:11 pm
 
Bang on!! Tell it like it is. They deserve nothing!
Reply
 
 
 Bad Penny says:

 May 15, 2016 at 5:06 pm
 
The sacrificial altar of the Watchtower has claimed and destroyed so many lives.
 I found out this evening what an impact leaving the cult has had on our son. He was brought up as a witness from birth, he has known nothing else. Our leaving pulled the rug from under him. Everything he had believed in and worked hard to achieve within the org was now lost. He is trying to rebuild his life in a different world, a world where the future is not so certain, and he’s afraid.
 I agree with you Paranoid Android, the WT does not deserve a future.
Reply
 
 Paul says:

 May 15, 2016 at 10:35 pm
 
I agree with the general premise of the OP and with the comments above. There is so much obviously wrong with the JW view of the world and even more wrong with the GB view – that change is highly overdue. I doubt that the current leadership will change anything at all, anytime soon. That leaves the only option as more visible activism and exposure.
 I have been out for just 1 year, was born in and spent 62 years trapped in a cult that I did not see as such. A big waste!
Reply
 
 Big B says:

 May 18, 2016 at 10:53 am
 
@ Paul,
Glad you’ve have seen the light and found the courage to leave. Hope all goes well with you and your new found Christian freedom!
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 GEM says:

 May 15, 2016 at 12:35 pm
 
Bravo, Covert Fade.
This skil(l)full piece of writing is “en pointe”.
Can I add a point, please. If the early congregation could write “For the Holy Spirit and we ourselves add no further burden to you but these necessary things….” and bring a shed load of issues in line with the (then) modern world….why does the Governing Body hesitate to do so today?
The Bible according to JW song and lore was written “as a protection and GUIDE”…
so, many lives could have been saved by common sense and humanity.
Thank you CF
Reply
 
 
 way forward says:

 May 15, 2016 at 6:16 pm
 
Hmmm nice write up. Are you a free thinker? I mean do, you belong to any religion? Do you believe in the holy quaran, or in the bible? I’m asking because, its not just enough to give advise against, and not at least prescribe a way forward. Humans have this natural tendency to belong to a religion, at least in africa. So where is the way forward? Islam, Catholic, pentecostal, Buddhism, idol worship……..
Reply
 
 Matias says:

 May 15, 2016 at 10:09 pm
 
NONE. You don’t have to belong to a religion. That something is natural/common does not imply that it is the way it should be. Just get out of every religion and start thinking for yourself.
Reply
 
 
 
 way forward says:

 May 15, 2016 at 6:16 pm
 
Hmmm nice write up. Are you a free thinker? I mean do, you belong to any religion? Do you believe in the holy quaran, or in the bible? I’m asking because, its not just enough to give advise against, and not at least prescribe a way forward. Humans have this natural tendency to belong to a religion, at least in africa. So where is the way forward? Islam, Catholic, pentecostal, Buddhism, idol worship……..
Reply
 
 
 way forward says:

 May 15, 2016 at 6:16 pm
 
Hmmm nice write up. Are you a free thinker? I mean do, you belong to any religion? Do you believe in the holy quaran, or in the bible? I’m asking because, its not just enough to give advise against, and not at least prescribe a way forward. Humans have this natural tendency to belong to a religion, at least in africa. So where is the way forward? Islam, Catholic, pentecostal, Buddhism, idol worship……..
Reply
 
 
 way forward says:

 May 15, 2016 at 6:16 pm
 
Hmmm nice write up. Are you a free thinker? I mean do, you belong to any religion? Do you believe in the holy quaran, or in the bible? I’m asking because, its not just enough to give advise against, and not at least prescribe a way forward. Humans have this natural tendency to belong to a religion, at least in africa. So where is the way forward? Islam, Catholic, pentecostal, Buddhism, idol worship……..
Reply
 
 
 Vinitha says:

 May 15, 2016 at 6:53 pm
 
Rightful existence of watchtower as an organization would not be a debate if it stops proselytizing, especially to vulnerables kids through child indoctrination and targeting people of poor nation with little education. Ofcourse, it has the right to treat women has second class citizens if the women who join the organization are willing to submit themselves to it and agree to it. Just like this women have right to join the organization, the organization has its right to impose child abuse, shutting and mind controls or citizens who willingly submit themselves to the organization and vouch their loyalty to the GB puppets. How long would it take for them to twist the interpretation of the verse that Jesus has come to put sword between members of the family to become a literal translation of ringt to stab unbelieving family members. This cult and it’s indoctrination practices and teachings are dangers. Their right to exist and obtain charity status is a legal issue, lets us not confuse it and try to be magnanimous in justifying them for it vs human right abuse.
Reply
 
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 May 16, 2016 at 12:06 am
 
There is no need to destroy Watchtower, it still has some secrets to share…
*** g81 11/8 p. 21 Is the Bible a White Man’s Book? ***
 European nations, although claiming to be Christian, have quarreled and fought right through their turbulent history, this strife reaching a climax in this century in World Wars I and II, and now are making frantic preparations for World War III. And instead of proclaiming God’s kingdom, they look to a man-made political organization, the United Nations, as man’s only hope.
Reply
 
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 May 16, 2016 at 12:07 am
 
*** g82 8/2 p. 21 La Bible est-elle un livre des Blancs? ***
 les nations européennes, bien que se prétendant chrétiennes, n’ont cessé de se quereller et de se battre tout au long de leur tumultueuse histoire. Ces luttes ont atteint leur paroxysme en ce XXe siècle avec les deux guerres mondiales. À présent, ces pays préparent avec frénésie une troisième guerre mondiale. Au lieu de proclamer le Royaume de Dieu, ils se tournent vers un organisme politique établi par les hommes, les Nations unies, et le considèrent comme l’unique espoir de l’humanité.
Reply
 
 
 James Broughton says:

 May 16, 2016 at 1:13 am
 
Sometimes it is difficult to stand back from an organisation with which one has been involved and write with such clarity but I believe Covert Fade has done just that. This is not just freethinking which is more about being all things to all people. Being critical is not necessarily negative when one can support one’s views in a balanced way with evidence. If those currently studying with the Witnesses were shown the points mentioned in the article then maybe they would think twice about joining.
Reply
 
 
 Mr Negative says:

 May 16, 2016 at 2:14 am
 
To a large extent, I agree with this article. But I’m just not 100% sold on the idea that everybody should have a right to believe whatever they want. When it comes to things that are contrary to established fact (e.g. evolution, global flood), I do not think people should have a right to believe this nonsense, nor should they be allowed to attempt to spread it to others. They should be called out on it and prevented from divesting it to others. Now, when it comes to things that cannot be known for certain (e.g. the existence of god or an afterlife), then fair enough, people can believe what they want.
Reply
 
 Winston Smith says:

 May 16, 2016 at 3:19 am
 
@Mr Negative
 I understand your sentiment about people believing in and spreading flawed thinking, however to place any restriction on the freedom of thought and expression is a slippery slope that can easily lead to totalitarian control. After all, the restriction of free thought, is that not part of the issue with Watchtower?
WS
Reply
 
 Covert Fade says:

 May 16, 2016 at 2:56 pm
 
Winston Smith’s post pretty much sums up how I feel on this, with far greater eloquence. If you muzzle freedom of thought, speech and belief for JW’s, you have created a muzzle that can (and history sadly teaches, WILL) eventually be used on everyone.
Reply
 
 Cuthbert says:

 May 16, 2016 at 3:19 pm
 
Hmmm.. Covert, Winston, you are entering very shaky ethical territory when you say that people have a right to believe what they want and express themselves in consequence. A 12 year old may believe that he is ready to engage in a sexual relationship; that’s not to say as a society we are to accept his beliefs and let him carry on regardless. I’m all for freedom of speech and expression, however when the freedom of religious expression extends to coercing minors into refusing blood, even when they haven’t been dunked, we are duty bound to intervene.
Reply
 
 Covert Fade says:

 May 16, 2016 at 4:10 pm
 
Cuthbert.
I understand your point, but how do you propose outlawing belief?
If someone believes something, and refuses to relinquish that belief in the face of all argument and logic, the only way to stop them believing it is to shoot them in the head.
That doesn’t mean they are free to ACT however they want; if my actions are causing demonstrable and significant harm to others, then then my actions must be stopped or contained. Belief drives action, but belief cannot be regulated or contained like action.
There are grey areas and difficult scenarios as a result, sure, but my point stands; a person is free to believe whatever he wants to believe. Thoughtcrime is not a concept I support.

 
 
 Winston Smith says:

 May 18, 2016 at 11:31 am
 
Education is the most powerful tool in combatting dangerous thinking. Making information available on sites like this one as well as educating folks about cults and mind control are the best solutions. Trying to use force (or legislation with the threat of force) to change people’s thinking never works (and is ethically questionable). Just look at nations that tried to control the thoughts of their citizens – Nazi Germany, USSR, and others – freedom of thought always wins out.
WS

 
 
 
 
 
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 May 16, 2016 at 3:11 am
 
Keep it until Jehovah himself takes the courage to tell humanity why he created this religion! He needs to be assured that we will forgive and forget as we keep in mind that he regrets having created man (Genesis 6:6)!
How can you explain that the same religions has written this?
*** g93 10/8 p. 5 How Can We Protect Our Children? ***
 Tragically, adult society often unwittingly collaborates with child abusers. How so? By refusing to be aware of this danger, by fostering a hush-hush attitude about it, by believing oft-repeated myths. Ignorance, misinformation, and silence give safe haven to abusers, not their victims.
Reply
 
 
 ligniappe says:

 May 16, 2016 at 5:47 am
 
Covert Fade’s point on shunning is well illustrated by this experience and it has just happened in this last week in a Cong in the nearby hills of large capital city in Australia. An elderly woman of 86 years age, suffering early onset dementia, and being treated for mental illness and on medication, and being cared for by her family, suffered bouts of kleptomania due to the meds.
 This woman, a JW well enough, even though she, more often than not, cannot remember what she has talked about 2 hours beforehand knew that she had pilfered magazines and a vase from somewhere. I don’t know if the property was returned when the family became aware but I would think that that was what they did. There may have been other instances but all minor and silly, but this poor woman made the nearly fatal error of telling the elders what she had done and was so sorry about.
 What happened next was, the elders led by G off r, (name changed but persons who know will recognise) declared her to be unrepentant and that a judicial committee meeting was to be held, which it was and she was disfellowshipped. The announcement was to be made this coming Wednesday. The distraught family sought advice elsewhere from men who know what to do, advised the family to contact the Australian Branch Office for an appeal, since this elderly 86 year old has mental illness. In the meantime the family spoke to elder G r, and his reply that she came and saw the elders, and that she was lucid in ‘fessing up and that they saw no reason not to kick her out, and I might add, kick her while she was down as well.
 All of this fell on this elderly woman’s shoulders and she suffered a stroke from the pain of what they have done to her, and is in hospital as I type this. But what about the appeal to the Branch Office? Well, they are going to allow an appeal despite the 7 day time limit being well exceeded, because their concern was potential bad publicity if this gets out. Which they would deny if challenged. What a “great Organisation” makes you wonder why we haven’t joined sooner.
Reply
 
 
 Tara says:

 May 16, 2016 at 6:42 am
 
Terrible 🙁 that is so sad. You have to love the shepherds eh.
 A brother in my old hall… I haven’t been for half a year – yay me!…. has Bipolar. At times he was a real mess and would go off binge drinking. His wife is/was a shrew. Yelled at him, called him all the names under the sun, disrespected him, swore profanities at and about him…. yet he was the one who was df’d because he couldn’t bring his drinking under control. She was given support for having to live with him. I felt so sorry for him and most people did but the elders made the rules and out he went. I’m surprised it didn’t push him over the edge. He is reinstated now. I couldn’t tell you how he is doing as I have no contact.
 I hope the elderly sister gets support from genuine people.
Reply
 
 Eyes opened says:

 May 16, 2016 at 7:22 am
 
The experience you have related and the one prior are heart wrenching examples of the grotesque injustice that takes place within this organization. Some Elders who probably have no authority over others except within the org let it go to their heads and become heartless and abusive with this perceived authority. And it’s nothing less than tragic when their victims suffer. They make it perfectly obvious that holy Spirit and the love of Christ have no place in their minds and hearts.
Reply
 
 
 Winston Smith says:

 May 16, 2016 at 7:32 pm
 
In general, congregation elders are simply unqualified to lead, shepherd, or teach. Some of them are kind fellows and others real rats, but I’d dare say that 99% are completely unqualified to serve the rank and file. I served for just under a decade and I was admittedly unqualified. And those I served with were similarly inadaquate.
Without proper training (and not that acquired at KM school, I might add), elders are grossly ill-equipped to handle the issues faced by the congregation members. Couple that with the fact that the organization looks down on pursuit of an education in psychological studies, promotes ass-backwards reasonings, and only promotes organizational yes-men to the rank of elder and you have a recipe for disaster. Then add to the mix the handful of glory-seekers who want to play the prince and the problems really add up. No wonder cases like the ones above occur. Elders are inept at best and corrupt at worst.
WS
Reply
 
 Big B says:

 May 18, 2016 at 8:43 am
 
@Winston Smith
I totally agree with you. All members are coerced into thinking that higher education is “a tool of the Devil”. So the results of these policies logically follows in that what you have at the Hall are the most uneducated, unqualified elders (who wouldn’t make deacon in Christendom) teaching Sheeple who also don’t know any better. If brain power were explosives the combined knowledge of the so called “Elders” couldn’t blow their own noses.
A true case of “the blind leading the blind”.
Reply
 
 
 Telescopium says:

 May 19, 2016 at 10:27 pm
 
@WS & Big B
“The blind leading the blind” is so true. In reality, the most qualified leaders in any organization are the reasonable, level-headed individuals that can get things done. I believe there are plenty of men and women in each congregation that could fill this role. However, the written material from the WTB&TS indicates they are not interested in promoting two out of three of those traits. They want brothers (only) who will serve as a local mouthpiece for the Organization and can get things done without question.
I believe this is why we see so few elders that can be counted as qualified. For the ones that are “kind fellows” their genuine value to the congregation is stifled or watered down to the point that they just become cogs in the machine. It’s like witnessing the diminishment of the person as he relinquishes his mental faculties to someone else.
I served only briefly as an elder, but the experience was enough to convince me that I couldn’t be a cog – my conscience wouldn’t let me. Needless to say, the other brothers did not understand or agree when I tried to explain why I was stepping down.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Eyes opened says:

 May 16, 2016 at 7:05 am
 
@Matias, totally agree, we don’t need to be part of a religion. Being spiritual and being religious is are two different things. I do wholeheartedly agree with the watchtower statement that religion is a snare and a racket, including Watchtower. My spouse and I do strive to be spiritual people and we are liberated and much happier without Watchtower telling us what to think and how to believe and having the audacity to threaten our relationship with God if we don’t see it their way.
Regards
Reply
 
 
 Startrekangel says:

 May 16, 2016 at 8:22 am
 
I would agree with the general sentiment of this article, except that the sad true is that the WT has moved beyond the point of no return. Is like saying you would give Nazis another chance of existing. Where they can practice everything they believe, so long they do so without actually pressuring or practicing what they preach. Sooner or later it will happen. There is no place for intolerance in the 21st century. Of any kind. If you go to a restaurant without shoes, you are not banned forever. You will be welcomed as long as you were shoes. You don’t have to put on a show of repentance. To say that JW can continue DFing people so long family ties remain, is only a small step in the right direction. Membership, is strictly speaking of membership, should dictate that, as soon as the requirement is met, you are automatically back in. In other words, I agree to some degree, but the culture is so engrained in them that many thing will remain the same. WT needs to go, there is no other way.
Reply
 
 
 M Saurus says:

 May 16, 2016 at 8:56 am
 
I have not read all the comments yet so someone may have said this already. If so, I apologize.
My thoughts on reading this – you mention “free will” a lot in this article. Whoever uses their free will and CHOOSES to be/remain a member of this organization has to follow the rules. They cannot become a member then say “ok, I don’t like this rule or that rule – they need to change this or that”. No.
One rule is no blood transfusions. Want to have one? Don’t become /REMAIN a JW.
Another rule: when baptized members get disfellowshipped or disassociate, you shun them. Don’t like the rule? Don’t join the club.
The only exception is the child abuse thing. None of the things I mentioned above are against the law. Child molestation is. If they condone it, they should be held accountable, morally and legally.
HOWEVER – if the parents of an abused child CHOOSE to follow the elder’s advice and NOT notify the authorities… SHAME ON THEM. They have chosen this crazy religion and its crazy rules OVER THEIR OWN CHILD. They should also be held accountable, morally and legally.
OK, some crazy church elder tells you not to report the abuse of your own child – if you CHOOSE to obey them vs. protecting/helping your child – then it’s on YOU. Not on the WT.
Reply
 
 Eyes opened says:

 May 16, 2016 at 11:37 am
 
To a degree I agree with you. But how many adults who become members fully understand all the consequences when most of the negative side is tucked away and their exposure is to all the feel good things. Now with the extreme push for children to be baptized, how can they be expected to grasp the seriousness of such a decision. People are expected to be accountable for their decisions, but in witness culture no one is truly informed before making the decision. I know that people are told don’t worry if you don’t understand everything, it’s okay, nobody knows it all before baptism. That’s right. If people were better informed, how many do you think would continue to be baptized? When someone finally does begin to understand and perhaps disagree, now they are threatened with loss of family and friends. Yes I agree, don’t join if you don’t like the rules, but at least tell what the rules are.
 Regards
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 May 17, 2016 at 2:16 am
 
To Eyes Opened: I agree with your point. In todays world it is all about transparency.
 In Real estate you MUST disclose all known material facts about a property or you will be liable if a hidden fact comes out.You cannot hide things of importance. You will get sued. In all business it is the same. In legal matters also.In banking also. In medical field also. THE WT DOES NOT disclose and is not transparent when they study or convert someone. Do they tell someone when they study ” if you ever leave this Org” your life will be destroyed! Your family if they are JW’s will not be allowed to speak with you, your friends will not be allowed to speak with you. You must curtail freedom of thought and speech and if you EVER DARE to say anything against our teachings you will be DF’d. You must die if you need a blood transfusion, also all the other craziness about not allowing your children to part take in school sports/activities etc.
It should d all be transparent down to the minor details. The WT just sells you on the “new world” then adds tons of man made rules and restrictions after ur baptized but never explain the harshness to you until you are in the flytrap. One brother years ago likened being a JW to belonging to the “Mafia”! he told me once you join this org you just don’t leave whenever you want to. You just can’t leave without consequence happening to you! What a way to view your religion? Like Marlon Brando said in the Godfather,” I want to make you an offer you can’t refuse”. Welcome to the WatchTower. Now we own you.
Reply
 
 M Saurus says:

 May 17, 2016 at 8:45 am
 
Holy Connoli – agreed. Except:
(1) Real Estate, banking and other financial disclosures are business transactions that demand full disclosure (believe me, I know this first hand). WT is a religion. Not the same thing at all.
(2) Other than children who are born in, any adult or young person who is studying and being told all the rainbows and unicorns stuff SHOULD have enough sense to research the org before joining. Remember, these people are not already witnesses so cannot be worried about “objective” research.
If someone joins a religion (or anything else) blindly with no personal research, then they were not duped.
In all this discussion, I am failing to see where any personal responsibility is being brought in. There needs to be some.
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 May 17, 2016 at 5:44 pm
 
M Saurus,
“WT is a religion. Not the same thing at all.”
WT was a publishing company and now a real estate business, so Holy Connoli’s analogy is appropriate 🙂
WT is definitely not a religion but a cult. Cults are well known to hide many of their more controversial practices from potential converts. A surreal picture is painted of the cult up front in order to attract converts. Many persons do not know up front what they are getting themselves into when they sign up.

 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 May 17, 2016 at 7:19 pm
 
To M Saurus: True that the WT is a religion but full disclosure and transparency should be required if they are what they claim to be.
 My point was that in any relationship that involves your entire life there should be full disclosure by the ORG that claims to be the spokesperson for God. Perhaps today since the advent of the internet it is easier for many to make a wise decision based on their own research. In my case I was 19 years old and very impressionable and the internet did not exist. To go to libraries and book stores and do days of research was not practical at that point in most peoples lives. Also when you have undue influence by those around you that can also cloud things. In life also it sometimes takes time to see the entire picture and the false prophecies iver many years. Yes, we aLL HAVE SOME RESPONSIBILTY OF THE DECESIONS WE MADE TO BE PART OF THE WT BUT WE ALSO WERE DUPED INTO BELIEVING
 the WT teachings. I was never told that if I ever disagree with a teaching or play on a school sports team or have a beard or
 attend a wedding of a friend or relative in a church or do not agree with a change in the teachings that my entire friends and family would not talk to me?
 YEs, they are a religion but they are also a BIG BUSINESS also. Like getting a mortgage on a house you have to sign tons of disclosures or to invest in a bond or stick etc. You give more of your life to a religion than any bank so why should the WT NOT disclose any consequences to a possible convert of what happens if they leave the org? Now most people can do honest research on the internet yet the WT still converts some educated adults?
 In that case yes, they ae responsible but we have to remember that Religion and especially the WT preys on adults that have problems in their life and they pretend that they have the answers and that they care. I was coming to an airport a short time ago and the JW’s had their table out there with BIG letters and the heading What happens when a Loved on dies? There were 2 ladies sitting there and hoping someone would come over and talk with them. They acted like they cared. So they were preying on the emotions of others. I still say full disclosure from the WT should be the rule.

 
 
 dee2 says:

 May 17, 2016 at 9:24 pm
 
Most definitely Holy Connoli,
“Religion and especially the WT preys on adults that have problems in their life and they pretend that they have the answers and that they care.”
The JW recruitment strategy has always involved targeting persons who are at their lowest, most vulnerable moment in life.
An elder once said: we need to keep going from house to house as we never know when a person will lose a loved one in death or some other devastating thing happens in their life for which they seek answers which can spark their interest in “the truth”.

 
 
 dee2 says:

 May 17, 2016 at 9:47 pm
 
Holy C,
There’s a reason why cults don’t do full disclosure of their terms and conditions up front – if they did, it is very unlikely that they would gain recruits.
Interestingly, when you read or hear about the experiences of persons who were once members of a cult, almost always, without exception, they relate that they didn’t know what they were getting into up front – this is a common theme in the experiences of just about every person who was formerly a member of a cult.

 
 
 Bestium says:

 May 20, 2016 at 2:15 am
 
M Saurus you are
 so smart talking sitting in front of computer in America probably where you have internet since 1980’s and other benefits of civilization. But if you were living in another less developed country, where you don’t have access to info to research, and your life is a sh*t, you would agree to believe all rainbows and unicorns, because it would give you some hope for better life.

 
 
 
 
 Bestium says:

 May 20, 2016 at 2:01 am
 
100% agree, they don’t open all rules. You learn all that horrible stuff later when you have no choice but to comply
Reply
 
 M Saurus says:

 May 24, 2016 at 12:20 pm
 
@Bestium –
You ALWAYS have a choice. Always. The consequences of your choice may not be to your liking (i.e. shunned by so-called family and friends, or having to live in the real world like everyone else-minus the paradise fantasies) but the choice is up to you. No one is making you stay in this crazy cult against your will.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 dee2 says:

 May 16, 2016 at 5:18 pm
 
In the case of JW parents’ refusal of blood transfusions for their minor children, the law is involved to some extent since doctors have been known to obtain court orders in order to overturn the parents’ decision.
Reply
 
 
 
 Juli says:

 May 16, 2016 at 11:25 am
 
This cult needs to be destroyed completely. There is absolutely nothing about it worth salvaging.
Reply
 
 Gameisover says:

 May 17, 2016 at 3:10 am
 
Nazism needed to be destroyed. Isis needs to be destroyed. They are not recuperable.
 Neither is the Watchtower. If they would completely reverse their murderous evil doings, they would no longer be Nazis, Isis or Watchtower.
Reply
 
 
 
 Koos says:

 May 16, 2016 at 11:44 am
 
Covert Fade, great article not taking a hard stance against watchtower. JW’s might stay reading.
 But how to convince JW-parents that mentally abuse their children by allowing them to notice horrifying pictures in their publications?
 Armageddon Art – Jehovah Will Destroy You!http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk/armageddon_art.html
https://www.watchtowerlies.com/refusal_of_blood_transfusions_by_jehovah_s_witnesses.html
Well said M Saurus, thank you!
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 May 16, 2016 at 5:21 pm
 
“Armageddon Art – Jehovah Will Destroy You!”
It’s meant to terrify children into submission.
Some ex-JWs have relayed their experiences about the horrible nightmares about Armageddon which they had as a child; some relate how they always had dreams about dying at Armageddon and being in concentration camps.
I read about one case where the child is so scared that he is always afraid to leave his mother’s side because he thinks Armageddon will happen while he is at school or at a friend’s home.
Reply
 
 
 
 Twmack says:

 May 16, 2016 at 11:59 am
 
Allowing blood fractions which were formerly banned
 in the Fred Franz era, ( The instigator of this flawed doctrine )
 Suggests they would dearly love to ditch this mill stone he put
 around their neck.
It would very easy to produce scriptural reasons for abandoning
 the teaching. Most of the R & F I’m sure would welcome this as
“New Light” and even congratulate the gb for perceived
 scriptural integrity.
What though of the many, literally thousands, whose loved
 one’s were sacrificed to this man made law? would they not
 be extremely anguished ? over the senseless deaths of their
 precious children, wives, husbands,and others.
Would the 7 autocrats, even consider these ones? no doubt
 they would. But would it stop them going ahead? I think not,
 the advancement of their empire,would take precedence.
I know, at the present this scenario is merely speculation, but
 it could easily become a reality. An almost identical
 occurrence has already taken place. When the 13 year ban
 on organ transplants was quietly withdrawn. Said to be
 Cannibalism, then admitted “There was no Scriptural
 injunction against it”.
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 May 16, 2016 at 5:57 pm
 
Twmack,
The GB would perhaps love to abandon the flawed teaching banning blood transfusions but they are absolutely terrified of three words:……….wrongful death lawsuits.
I suspect the move to allow blood fractions, which were formerly banned, was done more out of a fear of a backlash – the GB needed to stem the tide of needless deaths so as to cover their behinds and ward off any wrongful death lawsuits.
Reply
 
 Winston Smith says:

 May 17, 2016 at 9:53 am
 
It is my understanding that blood fractions became allowable at or around the same time they were seeking legal recognition in certain Eastern European countries and getting blocked due to their blood sanctions. It was either in Bulgaria or Romania (can’t remember which) where the organization said that JWs could accept any medical treatment without fear of repercussions from the congregation. After gaining legal recognition, they quickly back pedaled on these statements.
WS
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 May 17, 2016 at 5:55 pm
 
Watchtower shenanigans at it’s best Winston!………….otherwise known as God’s holy spirit at work!
One thing is for sure, there is always some reason behind any changes which the Watchtower makes and it usually has nothing to do with being directed by God’s holy spirit.
Reply
 
 Grace says:

 May 17, 2016 at 6:53 pm
 
Also, they have a lot of investments in bloodless medicine so while they have influence over the members they are going to protect their investments by keeping the blood ban. While at the same time covering their butts from lawsuits by allowing fractions.
If you follow the money since ww2, you will see where the rabbit hole goes.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 Gary says:

 May 16, 2016 at 12:38 pm
 
‘Keep talking’, it’s that simple. Many thanks to the team for your efforts.https://youtu.be/-ithViBMF1k
 Oh look there’s a church between the statues.
Reply
 
 
 A.M says:

 May 16, 2016 at 10:22 pm
 
Thank you for giving a voice to my silent thoughts! I was baptized at 13 even though I didn’t really believe any of the words coming out of the elders mouths. I was terrified of disappointing my family, congregation, and friends.
 I used to have panic attacks before any meeting, thinking about the “paradise earth/living forever”
The idea of being disassociated / shunned was so unbearable I lead a very secretive alter life, I lied all the time.
 That put in many dangerous situations because I couldn’t call home for help.
 I still believe in, and love our creator. But I too wish religion, all organized religion, would stop using fear as a tactic to keep people in line. Stop the abuse of power, and turning a blind eye to those that use there power to prey on others!!!!
 Thanks again, A fellow X wittness
Reply
 
 
 Gary says:

 May 17, 2016 at 1:26 am
 
Everything considered, all differing points of views considered, it’s about heart. The Watchtower fails miserably, ‘please stand’.
Reply
 
 
 Gary says:

 May 17, 2016 at 1:38 am
 
Retribution?, thank you for your education Watchtower. Never, though I wish you would change, do I wish to be like you and for that I thank you for that.
Reply
 
 
 Gary says:

 May 17, 2016 at 1:41 am
 
Apologies for the missing words fudleded:-)
Reply
 
 
 Twmack says:

 May 17, 2016 at 6:49 am
 
The rescinding of the ban on organ transplants reveals
 a significant truth about the teachings of the WT ORG.
 Here is the verbatim announcement from the WT. —
“there is no “Biblical Command” pointedly forbidding the
 taking in of other human tissue” WT, 15 / 3 / 1980, p31.
Since there is no Biblical Command, from where did that
 command originate ? The answer is plain, and against
 which the Bible gives a very strong warning.—-
“Their worship is a farce, for they teach man made ideas
 as commands from God”. Matt, 15/9 , NLT.
Reply
 
 Average Joe says:

 May 17, 2016 at 7:56 am
 
That’s a brilliant observation and piece of research TWMACK!
Reply
 
 
 Outandabout says:

 May 17, 2016 at 7:43 pm
 
Well done! I’ve just had a quick look at google scholar and without thorough reading it looks as if blood is classified as either connective tissue or tissue. The Watchtower may have put there foot in it here and it’s a shame it’s taken so long for somebody to spot it.
Reply
 
 
 
 Outandabout says:

 May 17, 2016 at 5:25 pm
 
Jehovah Witnesses are a group of people who can silently enter your family and infect any of them with the notion that to commit suicide for them is a noble thing to do. If this weren’t a religious group, what do you think the authorities would have to say about that? What if this were a communicable disease running loose in the community? Something is very twisted here. Beware of the evil that is the Watchtower!
Reply
 
 
 Covert Fade says:

 May 18, 2016 at 2:45 am
 
Thanks for your comments everyone, both those who agree and those who disagree with me. 🙂 Discussion always illuminates things.
I have noted a lot of people here and in other comments sections online stating outright that they want Watchtower wiped off the face of the Earth and the religion gone forever.
Okay, fine, I get that impulse, but I have an honest question:
Can anyone who feels that way outline here a workable detailed, real world scenario in which that actually comes to pass, including a way of dealing with all the Witnesses who might never cease believing in their religion and will want to continue practicing it in some form?
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 May 18, 2016 at 4:07 am
 
Covert Fade: I don’t think there will be one size fits all if that ever happened. I think it could be like when Rutherford took hostile control over the WT back after the death of CT Russell. Many , many left and or stayed with Russell’s teachings. Some stared their own similar religions and no doubt many just stopped believing the entire thing or went back to nominal Christianity. As we know there are several groups even today that continue to teach Russells teachings, The international bile students still exist in different forms and groups.There was another similar group to the WT called the Worldwide Church of God led by Herbert Armstrong. It was an end times religion always making false predictions and having extreme control over the followers very much like the WT.When he died several other groups within that org began to form. May felt the existing org was not following his teachings and splintered off into several other groups. The actual religion that was the Worldwide Church of god ended up denouncing all of the original teachings and joined “Nominal Christianity” and took on their beliefs which they had for decades condemned as being false and “PAGAN”? Sound familiar? I can see that happening to the WT also.
Maybe right now we don’t see it but anything is now possible with the internet and people having an awakening. If perhaps another GB member awakens and comes out of the WT grip it could have a major effect on the entire WT teachings and religion. Also many may just not want to be part of an organized religion anymore after being “BURNED” by the teachings of the WT. Some will panic and we can understand that bc they have given their whole life to something and realize it is a scam and don’t want another religion. Some may also go back to other Churches or other beliefs, It will be a rough time for a lot of JW’s if that ever happens. For sure it will go in many different directions.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 May 18, 2016 at 7:03 am
 
That would be me HC. I will have no part in organised religion anymore, not after the Borg. I prefer to think of myself as Spiritual now, not religious though I do still pray. We had an experience last night when a piece of equipment broke down in our house. My son in law called a JW friend who would use his work related skills to help us…. he told my son in law to call up his work company and go through those lines. End game. Basically it was unsaid but, ‘they don’t go to meetings anymore so I will no longer help you.’
Conditional friendship. Who needs that. No more religion for me. as far as the WT I will be here for any JW that escapes. But I hope the organisation falls apart.
Reply
 
 
 
 Sunshineonarainyday says:

 May 18, 2016 at 6:21 am
 
Thank you for this article, I have never commented on here before although I have read all the articles and comments. I was raised a JW in a large, dysfunctional family. Even so 5 years ago when I left because of many doubts and a failed discussion with the elders and bethel on dress (tights under a long skirt or dress) my privileges were removed because I was labeled a “trouble maker” I then became disillusioned and left, met the love of my life who is an unbeliever married him and was subsequently shunned. A lady who knew my father told me whenever she saw him in the shops he would cry about me. I have since had a baby and he has not met him. Shunning is the worst! The organization is controlling and the elders feel they are the security team, with no training. The organization and magazine articles is their weapon that they wave around like bullies. Maybe WTS will eventually implode causing it to pop like a pimple that is festering … I can only but hope. Until then I will continue to read ur articles and enjoy my very happy life that I have found.
Reply
 
 M Saurus says:

 May 18, 2016 at 8:53 am
 
Sunshine –
I am so proud of you for having the personal fortitude and courage to leave – even though it meant losing family and friends.
That is so sad about your father. But remember – it is his choice – he chose the org over you and his grandchild. That is no reflection on you and not your fault. Hopefully you have some new family on your husband’s side now who will love you unconditionally, not only if you belong to the same religion.
Reply
 
 
 
 Twmack says:

 May 18, 2016 at 11:00 am
 
Maybe not a swift end to this cult, but a continual decline.
 Which in many ways seems to have already begun.
They’ve painted themselves into a corner with the now expired
 generation teaching, but clinging on desperately with the
 ludicrous “Overlapping” invention. Recently I asked my brother
 in law elder to show me, where in the Bible the overlapping gen,
 was indicated. He was flustered , and blustered and incoherent,
 I almost felt sorry for him. I don’t think he believed it himself.
 Time is not on their side !
Another nail in their coffin could be the removal of tax exemption
 resulting in more cuts and less growth. Already people’s attention
 is being focussed on these billionaire freeloading “Religions”.
there are calls right now for another investigation into Scientology,
 and if their exemption is removed, the dominoes could start falling.
Life after WT. Well life goes on, people are resilient, many may
 welcome a new found freedom, and like some on this site, others
 may formulate their own philosophy. many who have left WT,
 have already affiliated with other religions.
I totally agree with you CF that freedom of thought, freedom of
 religion must be protected. But when that religion and associated
 thought, not only support an ideology that has resulted in an
 estimated 50,000 deaths but actively preach and inculcate it.
 Should we then be overly concerned about such freedom?
Reply
 
 
 Average Joe says:

 May 18, 2016 at 12:38 pm
 
Just came upon this in a Tweet from someone I follow. Seems a very balanced approach to teaching children about religion. Not to everyone’s taste but the author makes some very poignant statements.http://honeyquill.com/2014/06/09/redefining-faith/
 I’m not sure if it is really relevant to the discussion at hand (please feel free to delete it if not CF) but I found it very interesting and thought I’d share.
 AJ
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 May 19, 2016 at 2:56 am
 
Hi AJ thanks for sharing this I found it very interesting. I am at the stage of the family splitting apart me and my little dude believe in god and heaven and read the bible and my husband and other child are ingrained jdubs who never pickup the bible and are expecting their panda prize at any moment now. For me and my heaven bound child, we have no affiliation as yet because I do not want to be bullied anymore. This is where the horns of dilemma lay because my little dude will have no jdub friends and it takes a while to establish new connections. The strangest thing is , is that i don’t grieve so much for my deadawake still in jdub family because even though they are believers they are not at peace or happy and now I’m through the fire I can say that I am at peace . It all takes time as many here have said and we all reach different conclusions. I actually would like to join a church but I do not want to get mired down in another set of ridiculous rules and nonsense and politics. One thing I will say is no matter how the jehovahs witnesses reform , regroup, change their mind, believe in all being born again etc, etc, I will never go back because they did too much damage and told lies and covered up their filth with more filth. That was never godlike or Christian.I still think that they should compensate all of us who were denied an education, or were victims of the 1975 scam, or were raped and not allowed justice, and that is just a start. If the society started giving it’s wealth away to us the faithful first and the victims of them then they may start storing up treasures in heaven. So putting their money where their mouth is would at least rub salve into a calloused collective conscience. Sorry ive gone on a bit cheers Ruthlee
Reply
 
 
 
 KaKaJones says:

 May 18, 2016 at 4:39 pm
 
The way the JWs in my family act, think and speak causes me to think they would stone people to death like they did in the old testament if they could. They probably would if it wasn’t for man made laws. They find ways to get around good reasoning. Religion doesn’t have to be banned for the law through doctors and child protection to help people. For example I called C.P.S. on my family member because she was giving her baby to much alcohol to drink. The case worker saved that baby’s life as far as I’m concerned. My family wouldn’t listen to me but they are intimidated by C.P.S. The elders said to me it wasn’t a congregational matter and it was up to the mother to raise the baby in the way she saw fit. That really happened to me. I feel sometimes people need to be protected from themselves weather they are in or out of a religion or a cult. Children need to be protected from stupid people. Teachers, doctors, nurses have laws they must follow to protect children. JWs, catholics, athiests, christians, muslims, budists, satan worshipers, and also the cult of Mary need laws to protect their children. That applies to Any cult
Reply
 
 KaKaJones says:

 May 18, 2016 at 4:40 pm
 
JWs, catholics, athiests, christians, muslims, budists, satan worshipers, and also the cult of Mary need laws to protect their children. That applies to Any cult.
Reply
 
 
 KaKaJones says:

 May 18, 2016 at 4:48 pm
 
Some of the things I saw on The Cult of Mary on National Geographic reminded me of my JW family.
Reply
 
 
 
 Robert67 says:

 May 19, 2016 at 5:15 am
 
No, it definitely has to close its doors. It’s not a ‘religion’ it’s a ‘for profit’ printing company that uses scripture to brain wash those seeking Christ to eternally push their product to earn salvation and forgiveness (a free gift from Christ according to scripture)
Reply
 
 
 Quendi says:

 May 25, 2016 at 11:01 pm
 
I haven’t read all the comments here, so what I say may have already been stated by others. There is a biblical adage that applies very well to the Watchtower: “As you sow, so shall you reap.” (Galatians 6:7) Should the Watchtower come to a disastrous but hardly untimely end, it will be well-deserved. While no impartial person would deny the organization has done good in the world, that has been outweighed by its evils–for evils they have been. The wreckage of broken families, sundered friendships and shattered lives speaks for itself. Any organization which is responsible for bringing these things about merits whatever end it reaches.
Reply
 
 
← Older Comments
 
Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *
Comment

applications-education-miscellaneous.png
Comment posting guidelines:
Kindly observe the following requirements before posting any comments to our articles or pages:
◾ABUSIVE COMMENTS - Do not post comments that include swear words or may be considered abusive, lewd, blasphemous, obscene or threatening
◾ILLEGAL COMMENTS - Do not post comments that condone or propose illegal activity, or that breach copyright law
◾OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS - Do not post comments that are off-topic and bear no relation to the page or article
◾RELIGIOUS NEUTRALITY - Do not post comments that are evangelical in nature or may be construed as imposing one person's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) over those of another
◾LANGUAGE - Visitors from all countries and language groups are welcome. You may post comments in languages other than English, but we would appreciate if you could make any such comments brief. We would also be grateful if you could run any such comments through Google Translate and convert these to English, but this is not an absolute requirement.
◾LINKS - You may post links to third party websites, so long as (1) you limit these to 2 links per comment, and (2) the content on these links doesn't contravene ANY of the first four points. Specifically, you may not post URLs to websites that are evangelical in nature. Our links page has an extensive list of such sites for any who are curious about Christian beliefs in the context of Jehovah's Witnesses.
JWSurvey.org thanks all visitors in advance for respectfully observing these guidelines. Any who persistently fail to do so, despite warnings, may find themselves blocked from making further comments at the discretion of the site moderators, whose decision will be final and not open for debate.
 
Name *
Email *
Website
  


 Notify me of new posts by email.
  
 

 

Click on 
Visit JWfacts.com for more information on JW beliefs
Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses
JW Recovery forum
Barbara Anderson's Watchtower Documents resource
Visit JWstruggle.com for helpful information on exiting JW mind control Visit TAZE.co for discussion on Jehovah's Witness developments

 
 
Support JWsurvey
Help us make continued improvements to this website and its content.
 
       
 
Article Categories
◾Apostates (32)
◾Blood transfusions (14)
◾Books (6)
◾Cedars' Blog (232)
◾Cedars' Story (4)
◾Celebrity JWs (3)
◾Child Abuse (68)
◾Child Indoctrination (23)
◾Divine Direction (5)
◾Domestic Abuse (3)
◾Doomsday Predictions (4)
◾Downsizing (13)
◾Evolution and creation (7)
◾General Information (8)
◾Governing Body (44)
◾Higher education (3)
◾History and scandals (17)
◾Homophobia (2)
◾JW.org (10)
◾Life Stories (16)
◾Mental health (9)
◾Mind Control (2)
◾Mini-Surveys (5)
◾News (225)
◾Property sales (6)
◾Publications (11)
◾Science (1)
◾Shunning (20)
◾Support (7)
◾Survey (16)
◾The Friday Column (24)
◾Undue influence (23)
◾Warwick headquarters (5)

Search JWsurvey

  

Listen to JWpodcast

Check out the latest episode of JW podcast! 

Latest John Cedars video
 

Popular JW sites in other languages
Languages         
More languages...

Select... Croatian Czech Dutch Estonian Finnish 1 Finnish 2 French 1 French 2 French 3 German 1 German 2 Hungarian Italian 1 Italian 2 Italian 3 Japanese Polish 1 Polish 2 Polish 3 Portuguese 1 Portuguese 2 Romanian Russian 1 Russian 2 Russian 3 Serbian 1 Serbian 2 Serbian 3 Slovak Spanish 1 Spanish 2
 
 
 
Open Offer

Open Offer to all bethelites
 Do you work at Brooklyn, Patterson or Wallkill? If so, please click here.

Our Promise
Making corrections
 Is there something incorrect or unfactual on this website? If so, please let us know and we will correct it.

Cedars’ Twitter Feed
 

 
 
Who's Online
◾0 Members.
◾0 Guests.

Reader Comments
◾KimJones on The Friday Column: No Girls Allowed – Growing up as a Female Jehovah’s Witness
◾JWIntellect on The Friday Column: No Girls Allowed – Growing up as a Female Jehovah’s Witness
◾Ren on The Friday Column: No Girls Allowed – Growing up as a Female Jehovah’s Witness
◾Caroline on The Friday Column: No Girls Allowed – Growing up as a Female Jehovah’s Witness

Menu
◾About JW Survey
◾Contact Us
◾Experiences
◾Get Involved
◾Global Surveys ◾2011 Global Survey
◾2012 Global Survey
◾2013 Global Survey
◾2014 Global Survey
◾2015 Global Survey
◾JW Broadcasting
◾JWawake.com
◾Links
◾Videos
◾Welcome

Login
 ◾Login
 


Copyright © 2011-2013 JWsurvey.org. Site design and support by The Small Web Master.

    StatCounter - Free Web Tracker and Counter     



http://jwsurvey.org/shunning-2/the-friday-column-why-i-dont-want-to-destroy-watchtower#comments








Skip to content
JWsurvey 

Welcome

Cedars’ Blog

About JW Survey

Global Surveys
»










Videos

JW Broadcasting

Get Involved

Links

Contact Us
  


← The Friday Column: Why I don’t want to destroy Watchtower
Update: JWsurvey editorial team meets in London to discuss future plans →
 
News Bulletin: Dutch reporter thrown out of District Convention
avatar 
Posted on May 19, 2016
 
Screenshot 2016-05-19 10.33.11Astonishing footage has recently emerged showing a Dutch reporter being thrown out of a convention of Jehovah’s Witnesses simply for asking basic questions about the Witnesses stance on homosexuality.
You can view the video below, with English subtitles and an introduction from JW Survey founder and Senior Editor Lloyd Evans


The reporter, who works for Pow News News approaches a number of Jehovah’s Witnesses at the District Convention, and asks them a number of simple questions about how their faith views members of the LBGTQ community.
The Witnesses respond pretty much as you would expect, and give fairly honest, straightforward answers to this question: They don’t approve of homosexuality, they believe the bible condemns it, they believe that homosexuals can change or, at the very least, deny their sexual nature and still be happy. They also show that at least some of them are aware of the controversy generated by the latest Caleb and Sofia video.
It’s actually pretty tame stuff. The reporter is pretty direct and a little cheeky, but certainly not hostile or aggressive. One older brother gives a somewhat awkward description of sexual penetration, but it’s clear that none of the Witnesses feel harassed, and they are simply giving straightforward responses to straightforward questions. They are giving a defence of their faith, just as they have been taught to do, and as they might do every day on the door to door work, with co-workers or their classmates.
Indeed, these are exactly the kind of answers they would give to an “interested one” who attended the convention and asked about the very same issue.
No harm, no foul, right?
Wrong.
What happens next is extremely bizarre. Two men, clearly senior Watchtower officials, approach the journalist and simply demand that he leave, telling him that his “implied invitation has been revoked.” They are clearly not interested in discussing the matter any further.
As requested, the reporter leaves, admittedly playing up his despondent walk through the exit a little to drive home the point of what has just happened.
I find this surprising on a number of levels.
Firstly, the sheer incompetence in handling the media on display here is worth noting.
The smart thing to do in this situation would be to invite the journalist for a full interview with a senior JW and try to give the full media friendly PR spin on what is clearly a controversial issue in the Netherlands right now. Throwing him out simply for asking basic questions seems like a total PR disaster. It sends the message that reporters are only welcome if they promise to the kind of mindless promotional puff piece that recently disgraced Gazettes.com.
If any members of the public, media, or Government were already worried that the Witnesses were a high control cult pretending to be a loving religion (as increasingly seems to be the case given the reaction to Caleb and Sofia), this hostility toward the media will not have done anything to change that opinion
It also shows that the Organisation is actually incredibly confused about which face to show to the public. On the one hand it makes publicly available videos like the recent Caleb and Sofia episode, which showcase a pretty blatant message about how homosexuality is a choice, and how practicing gay people will be killed by God at Armageddon, but then gets upset when a journalist asks regular JW’s for those very same opinions on camera.
It’s clear that the Caleb and Sofia video was in large part the driving factor for this journalist to visit. Did Watchtower not expect the kind of reaction, and if not, why not? If it did expect it, why does it appear to be so woefully unprepared to deal with it? The organisation might claim not to care what Satan’s world thinks about it, but then why does it panic and go into full shutdown mode to try and stop a news report that they feel might show them in a bad light?
It seems right now that Watchtower throws its options out to the world, loud and proud, but then scurries away and hides when people actually take notice.
As Hermant Mehta of The Friendly Atheist commented on his site.

Asking JW’s about being gay is apparently worse than being gay.
This will be a controversial Convention season, with a talk dedicated to shunning on the program and an overall feel of Orwellian control to the material.
This might not be the last time Jehovah’s Witnesses get asked awkward questions on camera. Perhaps next time they might handle it a little better?
covert-fade-signature
 
 
 
 
Raw Story coverage
The Friendly Atheist coverage
 

Share this:









in
Share
.

Print
.
Like this:


Bookmark the permalink.
 
← The Friday Column: Why I don’t want to destroy Watchtower
Update: JWsurvey editorial team meets in London to discuss future plans →
 
46 Responses to News Bulletin: Dutch reporter thrown out of District Convention

 Joop Brinkman says:

 May 19, 2016 at 3:09 am
 
The reporter need sensation stories and was not professional in authority. The Newscanal which is mention is a small local and not on national level. Am from the Netherlands and a baptized JW who disagree with Brooklyn teachings and claims.
Reply
 
 Covert Fade says:

 May 19, 2016 at 3:10 am
 
What was sensational about the questions he asked?
Reply
 
 nullandvoidboy says:

 May 19, 2016 at 3:41 am
 
@Covert…
Well I guess he acted “sensational” by asking questions on the same subject to all the “welcoming” people he met…..he sensationally gave them all a case of indigestion
Reply
 
 
 Joop Brinkman says:

 May 19, 2016 at 8:56 am
 
A schoolboy who give some questions, nothing more. Nobody of national TV are interested in JWs Congresses i know. In the first century it was hot news, today it is no news the JW topic.
Reply
 
 
 
 John Walsh says:

 May 19, 2016 at 3:42 am
 
Hey Joop Brinkman – if that’s your real name, your busted, as soon as the GB get on to check out the latest exposure.
Reply
 
 Covert Fade says:

 May 19, 2016 at 4:42 am
 
Hi John. Gentle reminder, Joop is fully entitled to state his opinion here as long as he does it respectfully, which he has.
Reply
 
 
 Joop Brinkman says:

 May 19, 2016 at 8:58 am
 
Am from the Netherlands and fear nobody. The GB are the problem , not the members.
Reply
 
 Covert Fade says:

 May 19, 2016 at 3:27 pm
 
I certainly agree that there are many, many wonderful people who are Jehovah’s Witnesses, including many friends and family I personally know. I consider these ones to be victims of Watchtower’s leadership and of harmful doctrines such as shunning, and the controlling of information.
Reply
 
 Imgonaburn says:

 May 20, 2016 at 3:27 am
 
I totally agree. It was the jw stance on homosexuality that ultimately caused me to leave around 5 years ago. Some of you may know that my own son is gay. After being led to believe by jw doctrine that homosexuality is a choice it was an awakening. I knew my son was gay and always had been. It was dreadful for him at that time. I was so sad because I thought he was going to die at Armageddon!! Then I realised he wasn’t making a choice! So I made a choice. I chose to ‘die’ with him so he wouldn’t be alone. Now after time has passed I realise that I actually chose ‘life’ . Thankfully, he was only 15 then and not baptised so couldn’t be disfellowshipped. His older siblings who remain jws are respectful towards him. They don’t hang out with him as they are too busy with their own lives but they still care about him and text him etc. My jw daughter has visited him at his Partners home. I know it could’ve been a lot worse for us.
 I watched video and noted that one older man said that some people are ‘born that way’ (wow!) but I did feel a bit sorry for them. Can you imagine how it must’ve sent them spinning? Lol rushing around trying to find the reporter so they could escort him off the premises.
 They are blinded by fear and are just trying to do what they think is ‘right in Jehovah’s eyes’. I think it’s hard for them. I know I struggled on a daily basis. They’re not horrible people- just misguided. Yes I know that the organisation has messed up a lot of lives. My own included for a while! I don’t want to come across as patronising or condescending but I feel sorry for them. Their struggle is real too and hopefully, if their life exerience teaches them to leave the religion, they will find themselves capable being happy on the outside.
 It used to be drummed into me as a jw that it was impossible to be truly happy if you leave the religion. Well, I prove to my family that that’s not the case. That’s the most powerful tool in my belt because if I say anything to undermine their beliefs or question the GB in any way re policies on paedophiles, finance or doctrine they always say the same thing. ‘Which (apostate) website did you read that on? Best to demonstrate to them that it’s possible to live a full, happy and fulfilled life whilst NOT belonging to the jws.

 
 
 
 
 
 george says:

 May 19, 2016 at 4:39 am
 
Powned is small, however it can be viewed on national television.
Reply
 
 
 
 John Walsh says:

 May 19, 2016 at 3:39 am
 
They are fearful of any circumstance where they find themselves unprepared for…….well someone or more turning up in their face with an `implied invite’ who is prepared with the hard questions, lol. Yet of course J-dubs turn up uninvited all the time asking people to put aside beliefs and answer their J-dub questions, and listen to their speil.
 Yes, do unto others as you would have done to yourself!
 I hope they don’t get their noses out of joint when they get the short shift out preaching.
Reply
 
 
 Chiafade says:

 May 19, 2016 at 5:46 am
 
JWs are all about appearances. As such they make quick judgements based on how you look. I’m sure one look at the young reporter in his skinny jeans caused the convention chairman to take notice. Of course this would have been after a JW complaint to an attendant who would have went to the administration office or the chairmans office.
The answers given by the witnesses were born of ignorance. They show a fundamental disregard for peoples nature. The attitudes on display would be at home in the 18th century. To say that they can “change” or that holy spirit can do that for you is utterly ridiculous.
I know many jws who simply could not hide their true nature. It’s not that they were overly effeminate nor overly masculine. It was their attraction to the same sex that made it obvious. It also made their lives miserable. There are also MANY of them at bethel.
The ignorance on display is also a clear sign that the witnesses are disconnected from reality. If they believe that a person can simply will their same sex feelings away. Then they also feel that a child molester can be changed in much the same way. “Jehovahs hand is never too short” they say with a glimmer in their eye. Their Jehovah genie is always there to grant the wish of those who ask and beg enough. If they don’t change its because of the individuals lack of faith.
The JWs get no sympathy from me for being asked these uncomfortable questions.
Reply
 
 Big B says:

 May 19, 2016 at 6:28 am
 
@Chiafade;
Firstly, great coverage Covert Fade.
Chiafade, I agree with you 100%. Bethel, like its monastic counterpart of the Middle Ages, attracts those who are attracted to the same sex. At least two Governing Body members (Ewart C. Chitty and Leo Greenless) were removed years ago for homosexual activities previously, then “outed” while serving as members. http://www.nairaland.com/1421303/two-gb-members-jehovah-witnesses
Makes you wonder where Jehovah’s Holy Spirit was during their appointment process? Maybe the Holy Spirit was asleep or blind or deaf or… 🙂
I known of at least one brother personally who went to Bethel after high school and stayed many years. He actually married while there and was, of course, asked to leave. As he is seventy years of age I can’t imagine what kind of living he and his wife managed to eek out before retiring. But they couldn’t have much of a retirement or Social Security. Sad, another life ruined by the WTBTS.
Let all JW’s be put on notice: if you think these questions and concerns being asked now are tough; they ain’t seen nothing yet!
Reply
 
 Tilli says:

 May 19, 2016 at 7:31 am
 
Is there any resilient evidence about these homosexually GB members?
Reply
 
 
 
 Winston Smith says:

 May 19, 2016 at 8:23 am
 
@Chiafade:
 I like this point you made: “if they don’t change its because of the individuals lack of faith”
It sounds on par with faith healing practiced by many fundamentalist / evangelical churches. If God doesn’t heal a person’s cancer, for example, despite fervent prayers and/or other nonsensical actions, it is because the person didn’t have enough faith, or the family was doubtful, or the congregation didn’t put forth enough effort, etc.
Point is that JWs are just like other fundamentalist groups, only the minor details vary (I have also heard of “straight camps” sponsored by certain fundamentalist groups).
WS
Reply
 
 
 Imgonaburn says:

 May 20, 2016 at 3:54 am
 
They used to say about my gay son…it’s ok for him to be homosexual…just as long as he doesn’t act upon those desires!! I would try to reason with them by saying what if it were heterosexual desires that were condemned in the bible ( I know it’s lame lol) and ask how they think they’d cope with that? How would they deal with a life without any intimacy or the physical comfort experienced when you share your life with a person that you love deeply? How can you believe that it’s ok to condemn someone to being ‘forever alone’ when you wouldn’t be able to accept that burden yourself. Holy Spirit! Pfft!
Reply
 
 
 
 Gary says:

 May 19, 2016 at 6:47 am
 
You may not believe the danger is real and Iam not advocating leave, however consideration of your circumstances is a necessity.http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=run+like+hell+the+wall+live&view=detail&mid=C8A8BCC23E2478689B94C8A8BCC23E2478689B94&FORM=VRRTAP
Reply
 
 
 Gary says:

 May 19, 2016 at 6:55 am
 
Well that encapsulates madness.
Reply
 
 
 Doc Obvious says:

 May 19, 2016 at 7:11 am
 
Here is a link to the news article on the POW web site: Jehova’s Reageren Op Anti-Homofilmpje
Reply
 
 
 WideAwake says:

 May 19, 2016 at 10:40 am
 
This is perhaps wishful thinking, but it would be so gratifying if the LBGTQ community could get a class action lawsuit filed against JW.ORG.
 Targeting children with their sickening video and poisoning young minds by teaching intolerance is reprehensible.
 The hypocrisy of this “religion” ie: CULT is boundless.
 The fact that the GB cannot tolerate any probing questions by a reporter showcases how fearful they are of criticism.
 Sadly, the Watchtower and GB can hide behind ‘religious freedom’.
However, cults by their nature, aren’t free and the people trapped in them are slaves.
 These conventions are all about power, control and MONEY….and all of it tax free.
Reply
 
 
 Sharon Christensen says:

 May 19, 2016 at 12:00 pm
 
A perfect opportunity to direct peoples attention to Jehovah and Jesus, and the extent of their love for humans. But no treat a person like this…sad. This reporter perhaps had too many things going against him…firstly…young, secondly…tight pants? By the way…was he sipping on a cup of Tim Hortons coffee? :)). My brother was asked to not bring his cup of …into convention! know, next thing…Coffee can only be…JW.org approved! Surprisingly they did not approve of my brother comming into the convention with his cup of “Timmys”..yet..when on noon break or after sessions over try and get to Tim Hortons here in Selkirk, Mb Canada,..Jws lined up down street! They are too presumptious…give them a bit of authority…man made not from God…eho you know not you what you know…and a pair of baggy poly slax drawed up and twisted…and they could give God orders! :))
Reply
 
 
 WideAwake says:

 May 19, 2016 at 1:52 pm
 
wow! I knew they were controlling, but the edict you can’t bring in your own coffee is ridiculous!
 Obviously their JW.ORG coffee must be a real money maker.
 You have to be very naïve, also blind, deaf and dumb to submit to this kind of control.
 Don’t you wish these passive, submissive ‘sheeple’ would “wake up and smell the coffee?”
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 May 23, 2016 at 7:20 am
 
I’m in Canada also and we cannot bring any food item or beverage into the convention if it comes in a Timmy’s or Starbucks cup or any item that advertises. The reason they gave us was that the convention sites usually have their own vendors and they are not required at the arena’s as JW’s bring their own food. Lunchtimes are a stampede of people going to outlets with their own ‘to go’ cups and having them filled. Lol it’s a bit like the old brown bag thing…. hide the bottle in a paper bag and no one knows.
I’m not going this year 🙂 I had an invite stuck in my door, as did my daughter. Both with the identical message asking for us to contact the brother as they would like to chat to us….. dream on.
Reply
 
 
 
 KaKaJones says:

 May 19, 2016 at 4:49 pm
 
WideAwake, we bring our own coffee. We’ve never been told not to. I never miss an assembly. I go to the Cow Palace and to Santa Clara for the assemblies. I used to be Free Will Baptist. They teach the same homophobic stuff. A lot of religions do. In other countries a homosexual gets killed along with someone who has a baby out of wedlock. I felt the reporter missed the point. A lot of religious people who go to church hate homosexuality. ‘Worldly’ people understand that. The point the reporter should have focused on is how shameful it is to brainwash children in order to stop them from being tolerant. Intolerance is taught from an early age no matter what the religion. That should have been the focus. Any religious church going person will say “The bible teaches gays wont make it.” Noone is shocked about that. The shocking part is how they encourage their kids to hate.
Reply
 
 Imgonaburn says:

 May 20, 2016 at 3:42 am
 
I agree. My question to you is this. If a person accepts the bible as the word of God where do you go from there? If the Bible condemns homosexuality how can I persuade someone who has faith in it to believe that homosexuals have an equal chance of finding favour with God? I personally think that unless they have someone close to them who is gay then you hit a brick wall. I love my gay son more than I love the bible and that’s how I broke free.
Reply
 
 
 
 Sharon Christensen says:

 May 19, 2016 at 4:59 pm
 
:)). No kiddin eh! …But sadly…no Jw.org coffee company in Canada as of yet…so the members can still hit Tim Hortons…just DO NOT enter the convention site sippin on one…swig it down …BEFORE you enter the convention site parking….cuz you know the attendants who assign your parking spot… may see you sucking down those last few drops, to help you stay awake thru the aft. session…and let the attendants know that meet and greet…:// at the doors.. before you know it,fingers are pointed…and you are being escorted to the back room…://. to recieve a chewin match…suspected of developing…”substance” abuse! There you sit…holding your head, thinkin you should have trusted your inner desire to be a rebel and go Value Village/ Thrift store shopping instead! :))).
Reply
 
 
 Sharon Christensen says:

 May 19, 2016 at 5:10 pm
 
You can bring your own coffee…just not in a cup promoting a certain Company here…in a thermos, unmarked. Who are we to judge…Jehovah knows the formation of us…even before we were born…we are all imperfect. Why judge others and their ways…only Jehovah knows….it truly is sad that people treat others badly or worse, without the God given right to do anything. Just because one practices a certain religion, makes them feel they are totally approved of God and can condemn another person. Not so.
Reply
 
 
 Pirlo says:

 May 19, 2016 at 11:26 pm
 
I would thrown him out too! If someone Come to my party asking everybody “do you accept incesters, why don’t you like incesters…etc.” I would call the police 🙂
Reply
 
 Winston Smith says:

 May 20, 2016 at 8:44 am
 
@Pirlo
 But I doubt any party you throw would be open to the general public. The convention is open to the public and typically they welcome news media coverage. However, they seem to only want positive coverage that conforms to their idealized PR image. Now if this reporter was causing a disturbance during the session or becoming overly aggressive with those he was interviewing, you could see just cause to throw him out. But this does not seem to be the case.
WS
Reply
 
 Pirlo says:

 May 20, 2016 at 11:50 am
 
Obviously, it’s open to public and the watchower don’t want to be exposed! But I think this reporter did a favour to watchtower because they show respect to him even if he deliberately came to disturb ( at least a little bit)! No one have to agree with homosexuality! Neither must we agree with incest or pedophilia, hopefully! Because there are already pedophiles saying that it’s not their fault if they like kids ( they are born like this!!!???) I agree and beleive that everybody fails but must fight against bad habits! And not just say “I born this way”! So for me this reporter did nothing that could lower watchtower’s credibility. Quite the inverse!
Reply
 
 Covert Fade says:

 May 20, 2016 at 11:53 am
 
You do understand that there is quite a difference between homosexuality (two consenting adults having sex) and pedophilia (a non consenting child being raped), right?
Reply
 
 Pirlo says:

 May 20, 2016 at 3:08 pm
 
Of course, I understand that! But even a 13 years old can consent having sex with 80 y.o. (Some say)! Or a daughter consent it with her father…

 
 
 Covert Fade says:

 May 20, 2016 at 3:25 pm
 
Actually, a child is not capable of giving informed consent under any circumstances. Even if she were to say “yes” neither the law nor child phycologists consider that to be meaningful consent.

 
 
 Pirlo says:

 May 20, 2016 at 11:55 pm
 
It’s just a matter of who make the rules! If pedophiles say that 10 or 14 years old Know what they do and that they should be allowed to make with who they want, then their opinion is equaly valid than the one who claims that incest is normal or zoophilia or homosexuality or anything else!

 
 
 Winston Smith says:

 May 21, 2016 at 9:05 am
 
What we have is an agreed upon set of ethics that society subscribes to. And society is constantly evolving. And I think it is evolving for the better. We are now looking at practices both with an open mind and with the critical eye of sociological and psychological science and determining the practices that result in the largest benefit to the human family. Years ago (e.g. in Bible times) a child bride was not unheard of. Young maidens were just that: young girls 12 or 14 years old. But as society has evolved we have come to understand that a person of that age is not benefited by such an arrangement. We have grown and continue to grow. 50 or 60 years ago homosexuality was considered a psychological disorder. Now we understand that it is a mostly inborn inclination and not harmful between two consenting adults.
WS

 
 
 dee2 says:

 May 21, 2016 at 8:43 pm
 
Pirlo,
“It’s just a matter of who make the rules!”
God impregnated Mary with his son Jesus, when she was 12/13 years old. This would be deemed pedophilia and child abuse according to the standards of most modern societies.
Incest is condemned in the Bible, but is nevertheless part of God’s plan for Adam and Eve’s and Noah’s families, and Abraham was rewarded for it.
 Abraham married his half-sister sister. He was one of the most holy men of the Old Testament. God rewarded them for it: “And God said unto Abraham, as for Sara thy wife…I bless her, and give thee a son also of her…” (Genesis 17:15-16, Genesis 20:11-12).
There were other instances of incest in Abraham’s family:
 Abraham’s brother Nahor married Milcah, the daughter of Haran, Abraham’s other brother.
 Isaac, Abraham’s son, married Rebekah, the granddaughter of his father’s brother Nahor and niece Milcah (i.e., his first cousin-once-removed). And their children Esau and Jacob continued to marry into their own family.
Lot fathered children with his own daughters after they took turns to seduce him while he was drunk. Lot is considered favourably by God, was saved by God’s angels (Genesis 19:11-13, 15-17,19) and is described as just and righteous in 2 Peter 2:6-8.
Most modern societies have laws banning incest since inbreeding causes countless genetic problems in families, which get worse per occurrence and leave detectable dents in the genetic makeup of species.
Societies try to develop laws which protect its citizens from harm. The question is what harm does pedophilia, incest, zoophilia or homosexuality do to members of the society. What considerations should be made when societies ban or do not ban sexual practices which some persons consider to be normal?

 
 
 Winston Smith says:

 May 22, 2016 at 6:53 am
 
Good points dee2. Often people who want to condemn homosexuals focus on the verses in the NT that disparage the practice. They argue that those who do not join them in condemning homosexuals are ‘picking and choosing’ what parts of scripture to accept. But they are forgetting all the references to incest and pedophilia in the OT which apparently were acceptable to God. Who’s ‘picking and choosing’ now?
WS

 
 
 
 Imgonaburn says:

 May 23, 2016 at 4:08 am
 
Are you for real??? That’s the most homophobic comment I’ve ever read on here!
Reply
 
 Imgonaburn says:

 May 23, 2016 at 4:15 am
 
That was meant for pirlo not winston or Dee whose comments were balanced and interesting.

 
 
 
 
 
 Imgonaburn says:

 May 23, 2016 at 4:10 am
 
Incest is NOT the same as homosexuality!!
Reply
 
 
 
 BEE CEE says:

 May 20, 2016 at 12:10 pm
 
This is utter rubbish piece of an article.
Reply
 
 Covert Fade says:

 May 20, 2016 at 12:36 pm
 
Specifically why?
Reply
 
 
 
 QuietObserver says:

 May 20, 2016 at 6:27 pm
 
Just as an observation, if the reporter had worn a suit and tie, I don’t think he would have gotten to talk to as many as he did. Security would have been immediately on him. My feeling as I watched was, that his body language said he didn’t appear really serious about what he was doing, but trying to get the sensationalism going. At the same time, I noticed he did not focus on the indoctrination of children and that is what keeps this org going now. 1.5% growth rate means they are really only baptizing their own children and not bringing in new converts. So they are indoctrinating their own children using fear and threats and shunning. I do hope that this “video” the org has put out gets them in trouble with the UNHRC. To me, the issue here is not homosexuality so much as the indoctrination of children. There are so many things that children of JDubs are told, many of which are false. My family started studying when I was 6 years old, so guess that qualifies me as a “born” in. I remember the horrible pictures and the constant threat of “don’t do that, it will make Jehovah unhappy”.
Reply
 
 
 John Merriman says:

 May 20, 2016 at 10:57 pm
 
Let’s face it….. Jesus at 33 and never married or had a girlfriend? Always hung around with 12 guys ? One even kissed him just to identify him.What would the Watchtower make of it today?
Reply
 
 
 PaxRomana says:

 May 22, 2016 at 3:27 pm
 
I remember as a Witness the thought of someone in the media trying to talk to us was very uncomfortable. But it’s deeper than that. JWs are programmed to control the conversation. We choose the time, place, and pace of the conversation. If someone walks away from us or slams the door, cool. But we are in control.
It’s a very different story when you are approached unexpectedly and asked difficult questions. That lack of control isn’t really what was in the theocratic ministry school training. And tough questions like LGBT, which always lead to a discussion about shunning, is a nightmare for most.
Just pointing out the irony here. They have no problem telling people they are wrong in their own way, but when challenged unexpectedly, they look afraid and startled. I have a sense of compassion here. Most want to do the right thing and fear looking like they are wavering in their faith. It’s all quite sad really.
Reply
 
 
 John says:

 May 26, 2016 at 10:44 am
 
I am out of the JW cult more that 30 years and never regretted that; however I still stick to values and I still firmly thina homosexuality is wrong and unnatural. So I would never fraternize with any gay “apostates” and still prefer to keep away from these people who want to marry and to adopt children !! What a shame.
Reply
 
 
Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *
Comment
Name *
Email *
Website
  


 Notify me of new posts by email.
  
 

 

Click on 
Visit JWfacts.com for more information on JW beliefs
Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses
JW Recovery forum
Barbara Anderson's Watchtower Documents resource
Visit JWstruggle.com for helpful information on exiting JW mind control Visit TAZE.co for discussion on Jehovah's Witness developments

 
 
Support JWsurvey
Help us make continued improvements to this website and its content.
 
       
 
Article Categories
◾Apostates (32)
◾Blood transfusions (14)
◾Books (6)
◾Cedars' Blog (232)
◾Cedars' Story (4)
◾Celebrity JWs (3)
◾Child Abuse (68)
◾Child Indoctrination (23)
◾Divine Direction (5)
◾Domestic Abuse (3)
◾Doomsday Predictions (4)
◾Downsizing (13)
◾Evolution and creation (7)
◾General Information (8)
◾Governing Body (44)
◾Higher education (3)
◾History and scandals (17)
◾Homophobia (2)
◾JW.org (10)
◾Life Stories (16)
◾Mental health (9)
◾Mind Control (2)
◾Mini-Surveys (5)
◾News (225)
◾Property sales (6)
◾Publications (11)
◾Science (1)
◾Shunning (20)
◾Support (7)
◾Survey (16)
◾The Friday Column (24)
◾Undue influence (23)
◾Warwick headquarters (5)

Search JWsurvey

  

Listen to JWpodcast

Check out the latest episode of JW podcast! 

Latest John Cedars video
 

Popular JW sites in other languages
Languages         
More languages...

Select... Croatian Czech Dutch Estonian Finnish 1 Finnish 2 French 1 French 2 French 3 German 1 German 2 Hungarian Italian 1 Italian 2 Italian 3 Japanese Polish 1 Polish 2 Polish 3 Portuguese 1 Portuguese 2 Romanian Russian 1 Russian 2 Russian 3 Serbian 1 Serbian 2 Serbian 3 Slovak Spanish 1 Spanish 2
 
 
 
Open Offer

Open Offer to all bethelites
 Do you work at Brooklyn, Patterson or Wallkill? If so, please click here.

Our Promise
Making corrections
 Is there something incorrect or unfactual on this website? If so, please let us know and we will correct it.

Cedars’ Twitter Feed
 

 
 
Who's Online
◾0 Members.
◾0 Guests.

Reader Comments
◾KimJones on The Friday Column: No Girls Allowed – Growing up as a Female Jehovah’s Witness
◾JWIntellect on The Friday Column: No Girls Allowed – Growing up as a Female Jehovah’s Witness
◾Ren on The Friday Column: No Girls Allowed – Growing up as a Female Jehovah’s Witness
◾Caroline on The Friday Column: No Girls Allowed – Growing up as a Female Jehovah’s Witness

Menu
◾About JW Survey
◾Contact Us
◾Experiences
◾Get Involved
◾Global Surveys ◾2011 Global Survey
◾2012 Global Survey
◾2013 Global Survey
◾2014 Global Survey
◾2015 Global Survey
◾JW Broadcasting
◾JWawake.com
◾Links
◾Videos
◾Welcome

Login
 ◾Login
 


Copyright © 2011-2013 JWsurvey.org. Site design and support by The Small Web Master.

    StatCounter - Free Web Tracker and Counter     




http://jwsurvey.org/news/news-bulletin-dutch-reporter-thrown-out-of-district-convention