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News Bulletin: Dutch reporter thrown out of District Convention
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Posted on May 19, 2016
Screenshot 2016-05-19 10.33.11Astonishing footage has recently emerged showing a Dutch reporter being thrown out of a convention of Jehovah’s Witnesses simply for asking basic questions about the Witnesses stance on homosexuality.
You can view the video below, with English subtitles and an introduction from JW Survey founder and Senior Editor Lloyd Evans
The reporter, who works for Pow News News approaches a number of Jehovah’s Witnesses at the District Convention, and asks them a number of simple questions about how their faith views members of the LBGTQ community.
The Witnesses respond pretty much as you would expect, and give fairly honest, straightforward answers to this question: They don’t approve of homosexuality, they believe the bible condemns it, they believe that homosexuals can change or, at the very least, deny their sexual nature and still be happy. They also show that at least some of them are aware of the controversy generated by the latest Caleb and Sofia video.
It’s actually pretty tame stuff. The reporter is pretty direct and a little cheeky, but certainly not hostile or aggressive. One older brother gives a somewhat awkward description of sexual penetration, but it’s clear that none of the Witnesses feel harassed, and they are simply giving straightforward responses to straightforward questions. They are giving a defence of their faith, just as they have been taught to do, and as they might do every day on the door to door work, with co-workers or their classmates.
Indeed, these are exactly the kind of answers they would give to an “interested one” who attended the convention and asked about the very same issue.
No harm, no foul, right?
Wrong.
What happens next is extremely bizarre. Two men, clearly senior Watchtower officials, approach the journalist and simply demand that he leave, telling him that his “implied invitation has been revoked.” They are clearly not interested in discussing the matter any further.
As requested, the reporter leaves, admittedly playing up his despondent walk through the exit a little to drive home the point of what has just happened.
I find this surprising on a number of levels.
Firstly, the sheer incompetence in handling the media on display here is worth noting.
The smart thing to do in this situation would be to invite the journalist for a full interview with a senior JW and try to give the full media friendly PR spin on what is clearly a controversial issue in the Netherlands right now. Throwing him out simply for asking basic questions seems like a total PR disaster. It sends the message that reporters are only welcome if they promise to the kind of mindless promotional puff piece that recently disgraced Gazettes.com.
If any members of the public, media, or Government were already worried that the Witnesses were a high control cult pretending to be a loving religion (as increasingly seems to be the case given the reaction to Caleb and Sofia), this hostility toward the media will not have done anything to change that opinion
It also shows that the Organisation is actually incredibly confused about which face to show to the public. On the one hand it makes publicly available videos like the recent Caleb and Sofia episode, which showcase a pretty blatant message about how homosexuality is a choice, and how practicing gay people will be killed by God at Armageddon, but then gets upset when a journalist asks regular JW’s for those very same opinions on camera.
It’s clear that the Caleb and Sofia video was in large part the driving factor for this journalist to visit. Did Watchtower not expect the kind of reaction, and if not, why not? If it did expect it, why does it appear to be so woefully unprepared to deal with it? The organisation might claim not to care what Satan’s world thinks about it, but then why does it panic and go into full shutdown mode to try and stop a news report that they feel might show them in a bad light?
It seems right now that Watchtower throws its options out to the world, loud and proud, but then scurries away and hides when people actually take notice.
As Hermant Mehta of The Friendly Atheist commented on his site.
Asking JW’s about being gay is apparently worse than being gay.
This will be a controversial Convention season, with a talk dedicated to shunning on the program and an overall feel of Orwellian control to the material.
This might not be the last time Jehovah’s Witnesses get asked awkward questions on camera. Perhaps next time they might handle it a little better?
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46 Responses to News Bulletin: Dutch reporter thrown out of District Convention
Joop Brinkman says:
May 19, 2016 at 3:09 am
The reporter need sensation stories and was not professional in authority. The Newscanal which is mention is a small local and not on national level. Am from the Netherlands and a baptized JW who disagree with Brooklyn teachings and claims.
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Covert Fade says:
May 19, 2016 at 3:10 am
What was sensational about the questions he asked?
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nullandvoidboy says:
May 19, 2016 at 3:41 am
@Covert…
Well I guess he acted “sensational” by asking questions on the same subject to all the “welcoming” people he met…..he sensationally gave them all a case of indigestion
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Joop Brinkman says:
May 19, 2016 at 8:56 am
A schoolboy who give some questions, nothing more. Nobody of national TV are interested in JWs Congresses i know. In the first century it was hot news, today it is no news the JW topic.
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John Walsh says:
May 19, 2016 at 3:42 am
Hey Joop Brinkman – if that’s your real name, your busted, as soon as the GB get on to check out the latest exposure.
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Covert Fade says:
May 19, 2016 at 4:42 am
Hi John. Gentle reminder, Joop is fully entitled to state his opinion here as long as he does it respectfully, which he has.
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Joop Brinkman says:
May 19, 2016 at 8:58 am
Am from the Netherlands and fear nobody. The GB are the problem , not the members.
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Covert Fade says:
May 19, 2016 at 3:27 pm
I certainly agree that there are many, many wonderful people who are Jehovah’s Witnesses, including many friends and family I personally know. I consider these ones to be victims of Watchtower’s leadership and of harmful doctrines such as shunning, and the controlling of information.
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Imgonaburn says:
May 20, 2016 at 3:27 am
I totally agree. It was the jw stance on homosexuality that ultimately caused me to leave around 5 years ago. Some of you may know that my own son is gay. After being led to believe by jw doctrine that homosexuality is a choice it was an awakening. I knew my son was gay and always had been. It was dreadful for him at that time. I was so sad because I thought he was going to die at Armageddon!! Then I realised he wasn’t making a choice! So I made a choice. I chose to ‘die’ with him so he wouldn’t be alone. Now after time has passed I realise that I actually chose ‘life’ . Thankfully, he was only 15 then and not baptised so couldn’t be disfellowshipped. His older siblings who remain jws are respectful towards him. They don’t hang out with him as they are too busy with their own lives but they still care about him and text him etc. My jw daughter has visited him at his Partners home. I know it could’ve been a lot worse for us.
I watched video and noted that one older man said that some people are ‘born that way’ (wow!) but I did feel a bit sorry for them. Can you imagine how it must’ve sent them spinning? Lol rushing around trying to find the reporter so they could escort him off the premises.
They are blinded by fear and are just trying to do what they think is ‘right in Jehovah’s eyes’. I think it’s hard for them. I know I struggled on a daily basis. They’re not horrible people- just misguided. Yes I know that the organisation has messed up a lot of lives. My own included for a while! I don’t want to come across as patronising or condescending but I feel sorry for them. Their struggle is real too and hopefully, if their life exerience teaches them to leave the religion, they will find themselves capable being happy on the outside.
It used to be drummed into me as a jw that it was impossible to be truly happy if you leave the religion. Well, I prove to my family that that’s not the case. That’s the most powerful tool in my belt because if I say anything to undermine their beliefs or question the GB in any way re policies on paedophiles, finance or doctrine they always say the same thing. ‘Which (apostate) website did you read that on? Best to demonstrate to them that it’s possible to live a full, happy and fulfilled life whilst NOT belonging to the jws.
george says:
May 19, 2016 at 4:39 am
Powned is small, however it can be viewed on national television.
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John Walsh says:
May 19, 2016 at 3:39 am
They are fearful of any circumstance where they find themselves unprepared for…….well someone or more turning up in their face with an `implied invite’ who is prepared with the hard questions, lol. Yet of course J-dubs turn up uninvited all the time asking people to put aside beliefs and answer their J-dub questions, and listen to their speil.
Yes, do unto others as you would have done to yourself!
I hope they don’t get their noses out of joint when they get the short shift out preaching.
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Chiafade says:
May 19, 2016 at 5:46 am
JWs are all about appearances. As such they make quick judgements based on how you look. I’m sure one look at the young reporter in his skinny jeans caused the convention chairman to take notice. Of course this would have been after a JW complaint to an attendant who would have went to the administration office or the chairmans office.
The answers given by the witnesses were born of ignorance. They show a fundamental disregard for peoples nature. The attitudes on display would be at home in the 18th century. To say that they can “change” or that holy spirit can do that for you is utterly ridiculous.
I know many jws who simply could not hide their true nature. It’s not that they were overly effeminate nor overly masculine. It was their attraction to the same sex that made it obvious. It also made their lives miserable. There are also MANY of them at bethel.
The ignorance on display is also a clear sign that the witnesses are disconnected from reality. If they believe that a person can simply will their same sex feelings away. Then they also feel that a child molester can be changed in much the same way. “Jehovahs hand is never too short” they say with a glimmer in their eye. Their Jehovah genie is always there to grant the wish of those who ask and beg enough. If they don’t change its because of the individuals lack of faith.
The JWs get no sympathy from me for being asked these uncomfortable questions.
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Big B says:
May 19, 2016 at 6:28 am
@Chiafade;
Firstly, great coverage Covert Fade.
Chiafade, I agree with you 100%. Bethel, like its monastic counterpart of the Middle Ages, attracts those who are attracted to the same sex. At least two Governing Body members (Ewart C. Chitty and Leo Greenless) were removed years ago for homosexual activities previously, then “outed” while serving as members. http://www.nairaland.com/1421303/two-gb-members-jehovah-witnesses
Makes you wonder where Jehovah’s Holy Spirit was during their appointment process? Maybe the Holy Spirit was asleep or blind or deaf or… 🙂
I known of at least one brother personally who went to Bethel after high school and stayed many years. He actually married while there and was, of course, asked to leave. As he is seventy years of age I can’t imagine what kind of living he and his wife managed to eek out before retiring. But they couldn’t have much of a retirement or Social Security. Sad, another life ruined by the WTBTS.
Let all JW’s be put on notice: if you think these questions and concerns being asked now are tough; they ain’t seen nothing yet!
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Tilli says:
May 19, 2016 at 7:31 am
Is there any resilient evidence about these homosexually GB members?
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Winston Smith says:
May 19, 2016 at 8:23 am
@Chiafade:
I like this point you made: “if they don’t change its because of the individuals lack of faith”
It sounds on par with faith healing practiced by many fundamentalist / evangelical churches. If God doesn’t heal a person’s cancer, for example, despite fervent prayers and/or other nonsensical actions, it is because the person didn’t have enough faith, or the family was doubtful, or the congregation didn’t put forth enough effort, etc.
Point is that JWs are just like other fundamentalist groups, only the minor details vary (I have also heard of “straight camps” sponsored by certain fundamentalist groups).
WS
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Imgonaburn says:
May 20, 2016 at 3:54 am
They used to say about my gay son…it’s ok for him to be homosexual…just as long as he doesn’t act upon those desires!! I would try to reason with them by saying what if it were heterosexual desires that were condemned in the bible ( I know it’s lame lol) and ask how they think they’d cope with that? How would they deal with a life without any intimacy or the physical comfort experienced when you share your life with a person that you love deeply? How can you believe that it’s ok to condemn someone to being ‘forever alone’ when you wouldn’t be able to accept that burden yourself. Holy Spirit! Pfft!
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Gary says:
May 19, 2016 at 6:47 am
You may not believe the danger is real and Iam not advocating leave, however consideration of your circumstances is a necessity.http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=run+like+hell+the+wall+live&view=detail&mid=C8A8BCC23E2478689B94C8A8BCC23E2478689B94&FORM=VRRTAP
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Gary says:
May 19, 2016 at 6:55 am
Well that encapsulates madness.
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Doc Obvious says:
May 19, 2016 at 7:11 am
Here is a link to the news article on the POW web site: Jehova’s Reageren Op Anti-Homofilmpje
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WideAwake says:
May 19, 2016 at 10:40 am
This is perhaps wishful thinking, but it would be so gratifying if the LBGTQ community could get a class action lawsuit filed against JW.ORG.
Targeting children with their sickening video and poisoning young minds by teaching intolerance is reprehensible.
The hypocrisy of this “religion” ie: CULT is boundless.
The fact that the GB cannot tolerate any probing questions by a reporter showcases how fearful they are of criticism.
Sadly, the Watchtower and GB can hide behind ‘religious freedom’.
However, cults by their nature, aren’t free and the people trapped in them are slaves.
These conventions are all about power, control and MONEY….and all of it tax free.
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Sharon Christensen says:
May 19, 2016 at 12:00 pm
A perfect opportunity to direct peoples attention to Jehovah and Jesus, and the extent of their love for humans. But no treat a person like this…sad. This reporter perhaps had too many things going against him…firstly…young, secondly…tight pants? By the way…was he sipping on a cup of Tim Hortons coffee? :)). My brother was asked to not bring his cup of …into convention! know, next thing…Coffee can only be…JW.org approved! Surprisingly they did not approve of my brother comming into the convention with his cup of “Timmys”..yet..when on noon break or after sessions over try and get to Tim Hortons here in Selkirk, Mb Canada,..Jws lined up down street! They are too presumptious…give them a bit of authority…man made not from God…eho you know not you what you know…and a pair of baggy poly slax drawed up and twisted…and they could give God orders! :))
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WideAwake says:
May 19, 2016 at 1:52 pm
wow! I knew they were controlling, but the edict you can’t bring in your own coffee is ridiculous!
Obviously their JW.ORG coffee must be a real money maker.
You have to be very naïve, also blind, deaf and dumb to submit to this kind of control.
Don’t you wish these passive, submissive ‘sheeple’ would “wake up and smell the coffee?”
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Tara says:
May 23, 2016 at 7:20 am
I’m in Canada also and we cannot bring any food item or beverage into the convention if it comes in a Timmy’s or Starbucks cup or any item that advertises. The reason they gave us was that the convention sites usually have their own vendors and they are not required at the arena’s as JW’s bring their own food. Lunchtimes are a stampede of people going to outlets with their own ‘to go’ cups and having them filled. Lol it’s a bit like the old brown bag thing…. hide the bottle in a paper bag and no one knows.
I’m not going this year 🙂 I had an invite stuck in my door, as did my daughter. Both with the identical message asking for us to contact the brother as they would like to chat to us….. dream on.
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KaKaJones says:
May 19, 2016 at 4:49 pm
WideAwake, we bring our own coffee. We’ve never been told not to. I never miss an assembly. I go to the Cow Palace and to Santa Clara for the assemblies. I used to be Free Will Baptist. They teach the same homophobic stuff. A lot of religions do. In other countries a homosexual gets killed along with someone who has a baby out of wedlock. I felt the reporter missed the point. A lot of religious people who go to church hate homosexuality. ‘Worldly’ people understand that. The point the reporter should have focused on is how shameful it is to brainwash children in order to stop them from being tolerant. Intolerance is taught from an early age no matter what the religion. That should have been the focus. Any religious church going person will say “The bible teaches gays wont make it.” Noone is shocked about that. The shocking part is how they encourage their kids to hate.
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Imgonaburn says:
May 20, 2016 at 3:42 am
I agree. My question to you is this. If a person accepts the bible as the word of God where do you go from there? If the Bible condemns homosexuality how can I persuade someone who has faith in it to believe that homosexuals have an equal chance of finding favour with God? I personally think that unless they have someone close to them who is gay then you hit a brick wall. I love my gay son more than I love the bible and that’s how I broke free.
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Sharon Christensen says:
May 19, 2016 at 4:59 pm
:)). No kiddin eh! …But sadly…no Jw.org coffee company in Canada as of yet…so the members can still hit Tim Hortons…just DO NOT enter the convention site sippin on one…swig it down …BEFORE you enter the convention site parking….cuz you know the attendants who assign your parking spot… may see you sucking down those last few drops, to help you stay awake thru the aft. session…and let the attendants know that meet and greet…:// at the doors.. before you know it,fingers are pointed…and you are being escorted to the back room…://. to recieve a chewin match…suspected of developing…”substance” abuse! There you sit…holding your head, thinkin you should have trusted your inner desire to be a rebel and go Value Village/ Thrift store shopping instead! :))).
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Sharon Christensen says:
May 19, 2016 at 5:10 pm
You can bring your own coffee…just not in a cup promoting a certain Company here…in a thermos, unmarked. Who are we to judge…Jehovah knows the formation of us…even before we were born…we are all imperfect. Why judge others and their ways…only Jehovah knows….it truly is sad that people treat others badly or worse, without the God given right to do anything. Just because one practices a certain religion, makes them feel they are totally approved of God and can condemn another person. Not so.
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Pirlo says:
May 19, 2016 at 11:26 pm
I would thrown him out too! If someone Come to my party asking everybody “do you accept incesters, why don’t you like incesters…etc.” I would call the police 🙂
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Winston Smith says:
May 20, 2016 at 8:44 am
@Pirlo
But I doubt any party you throw would be open to the general public. The convention is open to the public and typically they welcome news media coverage. However, they seem to only want positive coverage that conforms to their idealized PR image. Now if this reporter was causing a disturbance during the session or becoming overly aggressive with those he was interviewing, you could see just cause to throw him out. But this does not seem to be the case.
WS
Reply
Pirlo says:
May 20, 2016 at 11:50 am
Obviously, it’s open to public and the watchower don’t want to be exposed! But I think this reporter did a favour to watchtower because they show respect to him even if he deliberately came to disturb ( at least a little bit)! No one have to agree with homosexuality! Neither must we agree with incest or pedophilia, hopefully! Because there are already pedophiles saying that it’s not their fault if they like kids ( they are born like this!!!???) I agree and beleive that everybody fails but must fight against bad habits! And not just say “I born this way”! So for me this reporter did nothing that could lower watchtower’s credibility. Quite the inverse!
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Covert Fade says:
May 20, 2016 at 11:53 am
You do understand that there is quite a difference between homosexuality (two consenting adults having sex) and pedophilia (a non consenting child being raped), right?
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Pirlo says:
May 20, 2016 at 3:08 pm
Of course, I understand that! But even a 13 years old can consent having sex with 80 y.o. (Some say)! Or a daughter consent it with her father…
Covert Fade says:
May 20, 2016 at 3:25 pm
Actually, a child is not capable of giving informed consent under any circumstances. Even if she were to say “yes” neither the law nor child phycologists consider that to be meaningful consent.
Pirlo says:
May 20, 2016 at 11:55 pm
It’s just a matter of who make the rules! If pedophiles say that 10 or 14 years old Know what they do and that they should be allowed to make with who they want, then their opinion is equaly valid than the one who claims that incest is normal or zoophilia or homosexuality or anything else!
Winston Smith says:
May 21, 2016 at 9:05 am
What we have is an agreed upon set of ethics that society subscribes to. And society is constantly evolving. And I think it is evolving for the better. We are now looking at practices both with an open mind and with the critical eye of sociological and psychological science and determining the practices that result in the largest benefit to the human family. Years ago (e.g. in Bible times) a child bride was not unheard of. Young maidens were just that: young girls 12 or 14 years old. But as society has evolved we have come to understand that a person of that age is not benefited by such an arrangement. We have grown and continue to grow. 50 or 60 years ago homosexuality was considered a psychological disorder. Now we understand that it is a mostly inborn inclination and not harmful between two consenting adults.
WS
dee2 says:
May 21, 2016 at 8:43 pm
Pirlo,
“It’s just a matter of who make the rules!”
God impregnated Mary with his son Jesus, when she was 12/13 years old. This would be deemed pedophilia and child abuse according to the standards of most modern societies.
Incest is condemned in the Bible, but is nevertheless part of God’s plan for Adam and Eve’s and Noah’s families, and Abraham was rewarded for it.
Abraham married his half-sister sister. He was one of the most holy men of the Old Testament. God rewarded them for it: “And God said unto Abraham, as for Sara thy wife…I bless her, and give thee a son also of her…” (Genesis 17:15-16, Genesis 20:11-12).
There were other instances of incest in Abraham’s family:
Abraham’s brother Nahor married Milcah, the daughter of Haran, Abraham’s other brother.
Isaac, Abraham’s son, married Rebekah, the granddaughter of his father’s brother Nahor and niece Milcah (i.e., his first cousin-once-removed). And their children Esau and Jacob continued to marry into their own family.
Lot fathered children with his own daughters after they took turns to seduce him while he was drunk. Lot is considered favourably by God, was saved by God’s angels (Genesis 19:11-13, 15-17,19) and is described as just and righteous in 2 Peter 2:6-8.
Most modern societies have laws banning incest since inbreeding causes countless genetic problems in families, which get worse per occurrence and leave detectable dents in the genetic makeup of species.
Societies try to develop laws which protect its citizens from harm. The question is what harm does pedophilia, incest, zoophilia or homosexuality do to members of the society. What considerations should be made when societies ban or do not ban sexual practices which some persons consider to be normal?
Winston Smith says:
May 22, 2016 at 6:53 am
Good points dee2. Often people who want to condemn homosexuals focus on the verses in the NT that disparage the practice. They argue that those who do not join them in condemning homosexuals are ‘picking and choosing’ what parts of scripture to accept. But they are forgetting all the references to incest and pedophilia in the OT which apparently were acceptable to God. Who’s ‘picking and choosing’ now?
WS
Imgonaburn says:
May 23, 2016 at 4:08 am
Are you for real??? That’s the most homophobic comment I’ve ever read on here!
Reply
Imgonaburn says:
May 23, 2016 at 4:15 am
That was meant for pirlo not winston or Dee whose comments were balanced and interesting.
Imgonaburn says:
May 23, 2016 at 4:10 am
Incest is NOT the same as homosexuality!!
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BEE CEE says:
May 20, 2016 at 12:10 pm
This is utter rubbish piece of an article.
Reply
Covert Fade says:
May 20, 2016 at 12:36 pm
Specifically why?
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QuietObserver says:
May 20, 2016 at 6:27 pm
Just as an observation, if the reporter had worn a suit and tie, I don’t think he would have gotten to talk to as many as he did. Security would have been immediately on him. My feeling as I watched was, that his body language said he didn’t appear really serious about what he was doing, but trying to get the sensationalism going. At the same time, I noticed he did not focus on the indoctrination of children and that is what keeps this org going now. 1.5% growth rate means they are really only baptizing their own children and not bringing in new converts. So they are indoctrinating their own children using fear and threats and shunning. I do hope that this “video” the org has put out gets them in trouble with the UNHRC. To me, the issue here is not homosexuality so much as the indoctrination of children. There are so many things that children of JDubs are told, many of which are false. My family started studying when I was 6 years old, so guess that qualifies me as a “born” in. I remember the horrible pictures and the constant threat of “don’t do that, it will make Jehovah unhappy”.
Reply
John Merriman says:
May 20, 2016 at 10:57 pm
Let’s face it….. Jesus at 33 and never married or had a girlfriend? Always hung around with 12 guys ? One even kissed him just to identify him.What would the Watchtower make of it today?
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PaxRomana says:
May 22, 2016 at 3:27 pm
I remember as a Witness the thought of someone in the media trying to talk to us was very uncomfortable. But it’s deeper than that. JWs are programmed to control the conversation. We choose the time, place, and pace of the conversation. If someone walks away from us or slams the door, cool. But we are in control.
It’s a very different story when you are approached unexpectedly and asked difficult questions. That lack of control isn’t really what was in the theocratic ministry school training. And tough questions like LGBT, which always lead to a discussion about shunning, is a nightmare for most.
Just pointing out the irony here. They have no problem telling people they are wrong in their own way, but when challenged unexpectedly, they look afraid and startled. I have a sense of compassion here. Most want to do the right thing and fear looking like they are wavering in their faith. It’s all quite sad really.
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John says:
May 26, 2016 at 10:44 am
I am out of the JW cult more that 30 years and never regretted that; however I still stick to values and I still firmly thina homosexuality is wrong and unnatural. So I would never fraternize with any gay “apostates” and still prefer to keep away from these people who want to marry and to adopt children !! What a shame.
Reply
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Update: JWsurvey editorial team meets in London to discuss future plans
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Posted on May 19, 2016
Screen Shot 2016-05-19 at 18.54.01Earlier this month I had an opportunity to finally meet Covert Fade and John Redwood in person during a trip to London.
Shortly after shaking hands for the first time, John surprised me with my very own Telly Award in recognition of my recent film about child abuse.
As many of you will know, John put together a brilliant investigative article about Watchtower’s Telly Awards, explaining how they are essentially publicity tools that anyone can pay for – with multiple “winners” of each annual award.
To purchase my award, John only had to call the Telly Awards, ask for a particular code for Watchtower’s account, and use this code to customise a new award to his specifications. As a result, I now have a resplendent trophy adorning my desk, and a constant reminder of the lengths Watchtower will go to in congratulating itself.
Screen Shot 2016-05-19 at 18.54.24
After this initial meet-up, we were able to get down to business. Both Covert Fade and John Redwood have been doing brilliant work on JWsurvey as editor and assistant editor respectively, and finally being together was a great opportunity to revisit their contribution to the website.
When Covert and John initially agreed to get involved, the idea was to give me breathing space to finish my book – a project that continues to take much longer than I anticipated (I am aiming to publish it later this year). But, since both have been given time and space to stamp their individuality on JWsurvey, I have been deeply impressed with their skill and dedication.
Covert is a balanced, considerate, highly-driven activist and an eloquent, gifted writer. John shares those attributes, combining them with considerable experience of the organization and an encyclopedic knowledge of Watchtower history and dogma.
The three of us, together with Jane Redwood, decided to get together for a working lunch at the South Bank Centre by the River Thames to go over our ideas for the future of the website. I approached the meeting knowing that convincing the team to continue on a permanent basis would be a fantastic result. I was relieved to find that neither Covert nor John needed too much persuading!
I am therefore delighted to announce that Covert Fade will be continuing as Editor of JWsurvey on a permanent basis, with John Redwood supporting him as Assistant Editor. I remain Senior Editor and owner, and will chip in with the occasional article, but the day-to-day running of the website, comment moderation and editorial decisions are in Covert and John’s capable hands for the foreseeable future.
In addition to deciding on the above, we also discussed ideas for moving JWsurvey forward. It has not gone unnoticed that a considerable “community” has formed around our website, and we are appreciative of the trust people invest in us as a place to come and share extremely personal stories and experiences.
Our long-term plan is to expand the website to include some kind of forum where people can introduce themselves and find support. Unfortunately, apart from the technical considerations, the main issue is manpower. We need volunteers that are like-minded, fair and capable, but also trustworthy. In fact, trust is a key issue in any form of ex-cult collaborative effort. Everybody needs to be on the same page on a number of issues to make ambitious projects work.
If you feel you are a good fit for this particular aspect of activism, please let us know. I can’t make any promises, and it is unlikely there will be a forum going up any time soon, but if we can at least have people on our radar for when we’re ready to push the button, that would be extremely useful.
Another aspect in which there is a need for more hands to make light work is in the area of writing. But, rather than tread on Covert’s toes, I will leave him to explain in a future article precisely what it is we are looking for in terms of expanding our writing team.
As I’m sure many of you can appreciate, JWsurvey has a unique tone aimed at reaching out to believing Witnesses. We also try to set a high bar in terms of writing standards. Therefore, if you feel you have the requisite skills, please stay tuned for an article from Covert in the near future that will spell out exactly what we’re looking for, and how you can apply to join the JWsurvey family.
We also briefly discussed plans to update the site and give it a much needed facelift – something John Redwood will be giving particular attention to. If you turn on your browser at some point in the coming weeks and JWsurvey looks completely different, please don’t be too surprised!
Included on the agenda for discussion were ways of ironing out the problems we’ve had with the Global Survey. Due to the overwhelming response to the announcement of the 2016 survey earlier this year, we had to take it offline for a few weeks due to the limitations of our account.
The survey is back up now (please take it if you haven’t already done so!) and we will look to upgrade to an improved service with SurveyMonkey so that sudden voter surges can be accommodated and nobody is needlessly dissuaded from adding their voice.
Finally, I just want to take this opportunity to thank everyone, from the editorial team, to the writers, to the readers and commenters, for helping to make this website such a remarkable success. Currently we are getting 120,000 unique visits per month, and more comments than we can keep up with.
The dedication that goes into writing compelling, informative articles is one thing, but it would be meaningless if not for those of you who are relentlessly sharing links on social media, emailing links to friends and relatives, and generally spreading the word about JWsurvey in whatever way possible.
I think I speak for the whole team when I say the amount of views for the articles is a huge motivational factor in churning out more content. It is much easier to write when you know you have an audience. Just by opening up JWsurvey in your browser window to check for new posts, you are giving us all a great boost.
Your continued support is deeply appreciated, and as we move forward with some exciting future enhancements, it is fantastic to have you all along for the ride!
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27 Responses to Update: JWsurvey editorial team meets in London to discuss future plans
Joop Brinkman says:
May 19, 2016 at 10:23 am
Gratulations Mr. Lloyd. You can call your friend A. Morris III and tell him the good news of the Award : ). When there is a need for manpower we can assist from the Netherlands.
Reply
John ship says:
May 19, 2016 at 10:32 am
Thank youball at jw survey .it is a lifeline for many of us still trapped in because of family.a welcome experiance every week..
Reply
Doc Obvious says:
May 19, 2016 at 10:47 am
Thanks Lloyd for all the work you do. The topics written are very well written and cause people to think seriously about the JDubs.
Reply
At Peace says:
May 19, 2016 at 10:50 am
Hi,
I wonder if you have looked at google forms as a way to create a free survey that won’t have limits for submissions. Here is a youtube I found describing it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEuV9KDekyc
Thanks for your hard work!
Evelyn
Reply
Darlene Alexander says:
May 19, 2016 at 11:06 am
Thanks to all of your for your hard work and dedication! Looking forward to changes – and to more people leaving the watchtower prison.
Reply
Oubliette says:
May 19, 2016 at 11:33 am
Thanks for the update. It sounds like good things are ahead for JWSurvey.
Reply
Sharon Christensen says:
May 19, 2016 at 12:19 pm
From Canada…thanx Lloyd…You well deserve an award!!! :))). Actually all of your helpers do to! :)). This is an awesome site that keeps us informed and connected …it is far more valuable than you think…thanx sooo much! Perhaps more folks who are afraid to lose friends if the act on their feelings and suspicions etc., as to Jw.org…can actually feel that they still can have friends thru this site and others…and can enjoy freedom of thought, speech, actions, etc….and break the Jw.org addiction and control. Thanx again and all the best to you, your family, your friends and helpers…Lotsa love from us…:))
Reply
Dee says:
May 19, 2016 at 1:09 pm
Omg ! I spit out my tea laughing when I saw this! ROFL!
Reply
gerry says:
May 19, 2016 at 4:24 pm
Could you order a second trophy for the award, and then ask that it be displayed in Watch Tower’s award display case?
Reply
JWIntellect says:
May 19, 2016 at 4:33 pm
Congratulations to the entire JWsurvey team and anyone else who had a part in making this website a huge success!
Glad to hear you all had a chance to meet each other and plan for the future of the website. I look forward to all of the wonderful alterations and enhancements the site will take on, as well as being a continued reader and commentator of it.
I would love to help out in any way I can. I think anyone interested in the writing positions should, in applying for the position, submit a piece of their own writing that they deem to be worthy to have the JWsurvey editorial team review when deciding on who to select for these positions. Just an idea.
Anyway, thank you, CovertFade, John Redwood, Lloyd Evans, and everyone else on the JWsurvey team for all of your hard work and efforts in keeping us all up to date and informed about what is going on within the Watchtower organization. It is greatly appreciated.
Reply
Join-Stay25Yrs-Leave says:
May 19, 2016 at 5:52 pm
You f#%*ing ROCK, Mr. Evans!!!
That baby should sit right next to you in every JW video you make. I must now and forever more refer to you as “Award Winning Documentary Maker Lloyd Evans” as in…
“Have you seen the newest YouTube video by Award Winning Documentary Maker Lloyd Evans? Oh, it’s a must see!”
or
“You know, the WatchTower Society really doesn’t care for the way Award Winning Documentary Maker Lloyd Evans exposes some of their deceptive teachings.”
LOL
Reply
Don Leske says:
May 19, 2016 at 6:05 pm
I left 8 years ago now, but cannot bring myself to condemn even a cult. Acts 5:38 reads: “So under the present circumstances, I say to you, do not meddle with these men, let them alone. For if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown;
39 but if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them.+ Otherwise, you may even be found fighters against God himself.”
By definition, in Jesus day were not all followers of Jesus Christ not in a cult? hummm, really.
Reply
dee2 says:
May 19, 2016 at 10:33 pm
Don Leske,
“I left 8 years ago now, but cannot bring myself to condemn even a cult.”
Interesting. You have me wondering what your reason was for leaving the JWs.
You couldn’t have quoted a more appropriate scripture: “For if this scheme or this work is from (seven) men (in Brooklyn, New York) it will be overthrown”…………when the overlapping generations expire and the world has not come to an end.
Reply
Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
May 20, 2016 at 3:48 am
If it had not been under Roman Empire’s rule that time, a different story would have been written;
(Deuteronomy 13:6-11) . . .“If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or your cherished wife or your closest companion should try to entice you in secrecy, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ gods that neither you nor your forefathers have known, 7 from the gods of the peoples all around you, whether near you or those far away from you, from one end of the land to the other end of the land, 8 you must not give in to him or listen to him, nor should you show pity or feel compassion or protect him; 9 instead, you should kill him without fail. Your hand should be the first to come upon him to put him to death, and the hand of all the people afterward. 10 And you must stone him to death, because he has sought to turn you away from Jehovah your God, who has brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and become afraid, and they will never again do anything bad like this among you.
Reply
Minion says:
May 19, 2016 at 6:36 pm
Mr. Evans:
Congrats to you and JWsurvey team, on your success of your web site and your activism. And to your increasing web site awareness of visitors each month.
Your comment;
JWsurvey has a unique tone aimed at reaching out to believing Witnesses.
Then You must include the “Support The Worldwide Work” donation button on each article, this way you make us feel ‘at ease – and comfortable willing to reach for our credit cards’.
Since The Watchtower Corporation is a Corporation, this method would be called “conforming”. Recently added app feature to JW Library.
So, we All look forward to the up coming “facelift” on JWsurvey and added feature on each article, “Support The Worldwide Work”.
Congrats to all,
JWsurvey + Support The Worldwide Work
Peace out,
Reply
Jeffreycanning says:
May 19, 2016 at 6:39 pm
Good stuff as usual, more power to you; sorry i can’t be too much help I am a techno dud… But know your work is much appreciated in Aust…
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Pascal says:
May 19, 2016 at 8:29 pm
Congratulation Lloyd, Covert Fade and Jane Redwood. You the trio are doing an amazing great job and a life-saving one for all of us.I cannot wait to purchase your (Cedar’s book) when completed. Please, consider releasing an E-book version via Amazon.com. I will need to get one for my Amazon kind HD. Thanks.
Reply
ruthlee says:
May 20, 2016 at 1:42 am
OOOOh well done on your telly award I think I will inform the gb myself as they really should honour you!!!!(joking aside) This has been a great experience and to be part of a growing voice is very rewarding in itself. I would like to say thank you all very much for your bravery and sincerity and sometimes painful honesty. May this very needed public service continue for as long as we need it. Ireally am just a middle aged housewife with time to read and think about things but this site has been pivotal in my awakening. If at sometime I can contribute to helping others in just a small way then it was worth it. You team have done this in a large way and I am thankful. So ever forward with this valuable site and we are behind you all the way cheers Ruthlee
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soft serv says:
May 20, 2016 at 5:38 am
The light gets brighter!
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mimilove says:
May 20, 2016 at 6:21 am
Congratulations on the award! I agree this should be on display with every video that is done. No doubt there are folks at bethel that look at this site and will see it and know that praise can and will be purchased by the gb.
I’m not much of a wizard on web design but if you need mundane work done I would be happy to volunteer time to this effort. This site has saved me and so many others and I am very grateful.
One thing I would like to see is where (general location) of fellow ex-jw’s live. When I’m forced to attend meetings, which are fewer every week 🙂 I sit and wonder if there is anyone else that feels the way I do. But as you know we are terrified to inquire. Just a thought.
Thanks again from Texas to all the writers that contribute to this site!
Reply
Tara says:
May 20, 2016 at 6:42 am
Congratulations on the award Lloyd 🙂
I check in at least twice a day. As I have said before, I am more your ‘Penny’, type person but if there is anything I can try and do albeit, undercover, here in BC, please let me know. It’s wonderful that you guys got together. You have a ‘family’ out here.
Congrats, again….. to everyone.
Reply
Freed Mason says:
May 20, 2016 at 7:13 am
Congratulations Team JWSurvey!
Reply
Brother from Austria says:
May 20, 2016 at 2:10 pm
Thank you and your team for your great work!
Thank you so much!
Reply
James Broughton says:
May 21, 2016 at 8:06 am
Good to see the Telly Awards in such safe hands, Lloyd. I am also delighted that you have secured an excellent editorial team. Soon there will be enough supporters to have district conventions of our own. Now there’s a thought.
Reply
Jose Fidencio Reyes Perez says:
May 21, 2016 at 5:49 pm
Im follower, but some JWs say the prize is a fake. should you put link to Telly Prize where are you mentioned. Example https://www.tellyawards.com/winners/list/?l=jehovah%27s&event=16&category=3&award=B
Reply
Ejecting to Sanity says:
May 22, 2016 at 8:56 am
Love the Telly!! Hahaha!! Think I’m going to get a few myself.
Seriously, thanks so much for your dedication and truth! This site has been instrumental in building my strength and courage to face the facts and begin a new life.
One of many, many…..Yours truly, Ejecting (need a new handle soon..cause I’ve landed now).
PS..we enjoy the variety of columns and writers.
Reply
ActigallUr says:
May 25, 2016 at 11:49 am
If you ever need any help with anything at all, I’m here to help. I’ve got contacts on the inside and am currently “serving” in my congo.
Sending TRUE LOVE from NYC!
-ActigallUr
Reply
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← Update: JWsurvey editorial team meets in London to discuss future plans
Update: JW Survey needs YOU! →
The Friday Column: JW Survey needs YOU!
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Posted on May 20, 2016
12540717_1008463605843228_8931144894773544989_nWould you like to help make a difference?
We are looking to expand our voluntary writing team in order to keep pace with the increasing amount of Watchtower related news stories, and also to keep pace with our growing community of readers of both Witnesses and former Witnesses. We know from reading our comments section that many of you are skilled, eloquent and informed when discussing matters related to Watchtower. Your comments will already have helped many visitors to this site to evaluate their own beliefs, and given them the resolve to act on any changes they make to those beliefs.
You have already made a difference.
Would you like to make even more of a difference?
Would you like to write for JW Survey?
We are happy to consider articles for publication. Here are some suggestions for topics you might like to cover:
◾Life stories. How did you come to feel that the Watchtower’s teachings were not satisfying you? Do you have personal experiences from your time as a Witness that you feel might help others? Did you personally observe matters relating to current hot issues or historical events in the Watchtower world? Please let us know.
◾Articles that analyse and discuss a specific aspect of Watchtower history or doctrine. For example, are you a history buff who is able to lay out in a detailed but readable way the flaws behind Watchtower’s 607 BCE date for the fall of Jerusalem? Can you discuss medical inconsistencies in Watchtower’s blood transfusion and transplant policy? Do you understand the Mexico/Malawi scandal, or are you fully versed in the way that the New World Translation blurs the original Hebrew and Greek texts to falsely support Watchtower doctrine? We’d love to see an article from you.
◾News articles the report upon the latests developments in the world of Watchtower. Perhaps your have seen coverage of the Witnesses in the press that made your blood boil, or was spot on in its detail and tone? Perhaps there is a news event you are aware of that JW Survey has not yet had the time or ability to cover? Get writing!
◾Can you provide useful articles that may help those who have left the Watchtower, or who are considering leaving, to adapt and make the most of their new life? What strategies worked for you to re-start your career, re-enter education, make new friends, or free yourself from Watchtower indoctrination that you found to be harmful?
Please note that any submissions are on a voluntary basis. Much as we would love to pay for articles, the funds for this simply don’t exist, and all of our writers are currently working pro bono, myself included.
Here are some guidelines for any submitted articles:
◾Length of around 1500 words is preferred. A little less or more won’t hurt, but please contact us if your article might be significantly longer so that we can discuss possibly splitting it into smaller articles or reducing the article length.
◾Articles must not seek to evangelise. Our aim here at JW Survey is to give current and former Jehovah’s Witnesses the information they need to objectively and factually analyse their faith and come to an informed decision as to whether or not they want to leave. Our goal is not to promote a specific alternate faith, or a lack of one. We are happy to accept articles from writers of all faiths or none, but the goal of the article should be to encourage critical examination of The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, not to encourage conversation to another specific religious or secular viewpoint. (The two slight exceptions to this rule are if the subject under discussion cannot be discussed in a way that might not also impact wider religious beliefs, such as a discussion of Watchtower’s attitude towards evolution, or if a Friday Column writer is telling a life story that necessitates discussing how their changing religious or secular viewpoint enabled them to recognise shortcomings in Watchtower doctrine and practice. Editorial discretion will be exercised in such cases, and the editors decisions will be final.)
◾Cite your sources. As much as possible, please try and provide links and sources for any factual statements you make. You are discussing an online news article on the BBC? Please include a link to that report. You claim that Watchtower once banned the use of organ transplants for Witnesses? Please include the Watchtower reference. Backing up your claims with facts shows that your claims are true and that your arguments can be trusted, and will vastly increase the helpfulness of your article to those who read it.
◾Try to emulate the tone found in existing JW Survey articles. We do not seek to alienate those who might disagree with us, but rather to create a safe environment where a current or former Witness can consider the evidence and arguments and come to their own conclusions. Many of us have strong feelings about Watchtower and its leadership, and its perfectly fine to show a degree of emotion in an article, otherwise it might be quite dry and stale. Outright mockery or furious anger, however, will not be acceptable in an article. Ad Hominem is not a legitimate debating tactic. Calm, rational discussion and presentation of facts is the best way of convincing those who might otherwise disagree with you. Having said that, please do try to stamp your own unique voice on your articles; your own sense of humour and style is what will make your work stand out.
We cannot promise to use every article submitted to us, but we do promise to read every single submission you send. Please email your submission in MS Word format to contact@jwsurvey.org.
Please help us make a difference.
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119 Responses to The Friday Column: JW Survey needs YOU!
Newer Comments →
Markie says:
May 20, 2016 at 8:39 am
Just out of curiosity, would you accept articles that are not so censorious of the religion? Or do all the submissions need to be of the critical nature?
Reply
Cedars says:
May 20, 2016 at 9:23 am
I prefer “objective” and “sceptical” over “critical,” and we make no apologies for taking that approach. Heaven knows Watchtower devotes enough paper and man hours to putting a positive spin on its destructive teachings and policies. I think our readers appreciate hearing the other side of the story.
Reply
Covert Fade says:
May 20, 2016 at 10:05 am
Indeed. As Lloyd said, our role here is to portray the counterpoint to Watchtower’s point of view and give the side of the story that most Witnesses do not get to see. For us to publish articles that simply give unqualified support to the organisation is not our mission statement.
You welcome to submit an article Markie, as from what I gather from your previous comments you are a serving Witness who nonetheless has some problems with current Watchtower policy, if I understand correctly?
I think an article from you elaborating on where you diverge from Watchtower’s policy, and why, could certainly have a place here. I know of a number of Witnesses who consider themselves loyal to the faith overall but strongly disagree over specific policies such as higher education, child abuse or blood. They cannot voice these concerns in the congregation because of possible judicial action, but they are welcome to voice them here. They do not need to disown their faith in their article, I’m happy for them to state that they are Witnesses and intend to remain so.
Does this help?
Reply
H.K. Fauskanger says:
May 22, 2016 at 3:57 am
I hope and imagine that a sober and interesting ANALYSIS of some aspect of Watchtowerism, even if not overtly critical or disdainful, would also be acceptable? Of course it would not be apologetic either. The approach of a religious scholar would (ideally speaking) simply be to try to understand — to figure out what makes the Witnesses tick. The fact that there is no express “debunking” going on would not mean that the scholar shares the faith he is writing about, or even considers it wholesome; he just recognizes what the proper angle of scholarship is.
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Cedars says:
May 22, 2016 at 4:15 am
It’s difficult to know what “analysis” you have in mind without any examples to hand. My own position is that the religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses as a whole is not true, even if certain teachings are more inert than others. When you have a religion that is (1) not true, (2) teaches loyalty even at the cost of one’s life (blood), (3) splits apart families and (4) has a track record of endangering children, what you have is a cult that is utterly deserving of criticism, rebuttals, debunking, mockery, and so on. If someone is interested in learning more about courtroom victories for freedom of expression in the 50s, or teachings about abstaining from drugs and alcohol, or some other backwater of Witness theology, innumerable resources are available to them both in Witness literature and non-Watchtower sources. But just because we are a JW-based site doesn’t mean we are obligated to address all these avenues of study. The most urgent task we have set ourselves is to help free people from indoctrination to a harmful cult, and that is a task we unapologetically stick to.
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Covert Fade says:
May 20, 2016 at 9:42 am
Hi Markie. What sort of article were you thinking of writing? What would be the subject?
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Caleb & $ophia says:
May 22, 2016 at 12:12 am
How can write about Charles Manson or Adolf Hitler in an “not so censorous” manner?
The WT deceitful, hypocritical history makes it impossible to write favorable about this group.
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Steve McRoberts says:
May 20, 2016 at 8:51 am
Would we send submissions via email to contact@jwsurvey.org?
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Covert Fade says:
May 20, 2016 at 9:50 am
That’s correct 🙂
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Jennifer Barrera says:
May 20, 2016 at 9:12 am
I’ve never been jw but my husband is inactive. I’ve personally witnessed how destructive this organization is. If I submitted something from the point of view of outsider looking in, might it be published?
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Paul says:
May 20, 2016 at 1:31 pm
Personally I would love to see such articles, as they give a wider perspective and could be helpful to current JWs who may not see themselves or the Organization and teachings as others do.
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Covert Fade says:
May 21, 2016 at 1:13 am
Hi there Jennifer. Absolutely, please do. It would be fascinating get an article written from the viewpoint you described 🙂
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Beth says:
May 20, 2016 at 9:21 am
I can’t wait to submit an article. I’m a young mom, ex jw, married a non-jw with believing parents. It has definitely been a bumpy road leaving WT… But I would love to help someone see there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
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Covert Fade says:
May 20, 2016 at 9:50 am
Please do 🙂
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Jan Hoekstra says:
May 20, 2016 at 9:26 am
Can the redaction correct the English before publishing. Because English is not our native language.The point is to bring the text in perfact English in which we are not able.
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Covert Fade says:
May 20, 2016 at 10:06 am
We can certainly assist with correcting the article, as long as we can understand the original text. If it helps, I understood the english in your question perfectly so I’m sure I could assist you correcting any errors in what you submit 🙂
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Tim smith says:
May 20, 2016 at 10:19 am
Sounds good. I’ll work on something.
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Covert Fade says:
May 21, 2016 at 1:14 am
Thank you 🙂
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ruthlee says:
May 20, 2016 at 10:19 am
yep I’m in if you would like my contribution . One day I would like to tell my story because it really is amazing but would need quite a lot of help collating the details. Until I’m that brave if you would like an article I think my first foray would be into the emotion that comes from realising I was lied to that dawning moment has such an effect on (from my point of view) as a woman that I think it may help younger women who are starting their journey in life. cheers Ruthlee
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Covert Fade says:
May 21, 2016 at 1:15 am
Hi Ruthlee. Thank you, looking forward to reading your submission 🙂
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Joe Stealth [for now] says:
May 20, 2016 at 10:34 am
I was baptized as a young man who was raised Catholic in 1972. I have served as an Elder and am currently in the amazing awakened yet still observing from the inside the mind control phase with ,I’m sure, some stunning experiences in the future as well as the past to relate.The level of shock continues to amaze.It all started in Feb.2015 with Steven Lett and the “apostate driven lies” rant.I could and may write a book.
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Paul says:
May 20, 2016 at 1:34 pm
Would love to hear your story. Lett was the one who finally tipped me into the exjw community with his May 2015 JW Broadcasting begging. I found it sickening and insincere.
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Covert Fade says:
May 21, 2016 at 1:22 am
Joe, Paul, I think the Governing Body have personally managed to wake quite a few people up with their lunacy.
Looking forward to your submission Joe, I know how hard it is to be awake but still inside. Stay strong dude.
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Truth sets free says:
May 20, 2016 at 10:40 am
I also would like to write a article! But I would need someone to look it over and correct my punctuation. is that something you’d be willing to do?
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Melanie K says:
May 20, 2016 at 5:15 pm
I’m happy to volunteer as a proofreader. melemail2@gmail.com
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Covert Fade says:
May 21, 2016 at 1:23 am
Truth, fantastic, we look forward to reading your article. 🙂
Melanie K, that is very kind of you 🙂
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Sharon Christensen says:
May 20, 2016 at 11:07 am
Looking forward to sooo many interesting stories etc. :)) I would also be willing to write my life story as to Jw.org…From way back when,my family has always been looked down by the org. for being …poor, or what have you, never measuring ” up”, to the …polished, baggy pantz kinda witness, and the imagine that they wish to present to the world…Kinda like the “white washed graves” of Jesus’ illustration. ://. The more a person tried to do to please them…the more one was looked down upon…way back as a child, I seen how they treated my Father who was the real geniune kind of person, who truly cared for people and tried to immitate Jehovah and Jesus in mercy and kindness to all people. But my Father was not a fake…he also spoke up when he seen their hypocrisy, so they removed him…then they turned their attention to my brothers…and little by little crushed their spirit and inner self worth. To the point of their not feeling worthy of Jehovahs care. My one brother tried soo hard to measure up to their standards, he pushed himself to the point of physical limits…tired and sick, he still had to work to support himself and his wife, and to do his utmost to please the Dear Bros…at Jw .org, to no avail…he was killed in a logging accident. As for me, my whole life was affected to, and conts to this day…I know one should not hate them in chàrge and all who promote and listen to them….but from a small child til now…57 yrs old…I have to be honest…I hate them! They have affected too many lives and they must pay one day. My family suffered and conts to from their controlling ways etc., too many lives have been lost or ruined…thankyou to this site and the hard working people of, and the info and support it gives. I love the little cartoon illustration, simple….but made tears come to my eyes. ;//. Good tears….I like drawing cartoons to…even make myself laugh or cry at times! I know, may sound strange….but, heh…side affects of Jw.org!!!! :)))). Life is good…if we do not let that wicked orgy take away our happiness and life, and appreciate all there is to enjoy in life. If only those who have taken their own lives because of feelings of sadness, aloneness…of feelings of being unworthy of life and happiness…because of some group of themselves…imperfect men, full of sin themselves…claiming they are representatives of God on earth and have authority from Him to judge and give orders as to how and what…where and when…etc. Thankyou all once again…good work!!!!
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Covert Fade says:
May 21, 2016 at 1:31 am
Hi Sharon. Thanks so much for sharing your story. If you’d like to expand it a little, write it up as an article and send it in we’d be happy to consider it 😀
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ROBIN MILLER says:
May 24, 2016 at 11:21 am
oh my your situation is so similar to my own and my
parents (who have passed away).
abuse comes in all forms and this is not what Jehovah is all about. Shame on all those who made you and your family feel worse. its like going from the frying pan into the fire.
bless you!
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Karl says:
May 20, 2016 at 11:24 am
Hi,
This is my first comment,
Your cartoon made me cry. I was that man in the hole. I would still be there is someone hadn’t taken the time to stop and look inside. Thank you so much!!!
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Covert Fade says:
May 21, 2016 at 1:32 am
Hi Karl. I know what you mean, I was that man too. I think many of us were. So good to hear you’ve been able to escape 🙂
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Sharon Christensen says:
May 20, 2016 at 11:31 am
Forgot one thing…spoke with someone the other day….in regards to the upcomming convention programs…apparently much emphasis on how NEAR we are to…”the end”… sooo close! So we MUST make sure we are in “good standing”…. so as to be saved! The end is near…almost HERE!!! So instead of sitting and blinking…we should fear! ☺….Just a little tidbit of info…passed on to me by a Witness very distarught as to why child turned back on….”Jehovah” since …end near/here! Wolf?
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Jeffreycanning says:
May 20, 2016 at 6:45 pm
Soooo close, well back in 1974 I was out door to door when the visiting District Overseer confided in me just how close the end was… He told me that the brothers in Bethal had started compiling names of all the brothers who work in the essential areas such as power, gas, running trains atc. in Sydney (Australia) so that there would be a seamless transition when the end of this system came… WOW!! How close are we I was supposed to think. He told me as I had told our local overseer I was going to leave my wife and this was a ‘Hang in there’ speech due to Armageddon being just around the corner… Oh sooo close, but hang on that was over 40 years ago…
..
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Minion says:
May 20, 2016 at 9:43 pm
@J
I remember a list going around with names of brothers or sisters, who worked at utilities companies here in the states.
My question to The Watchtower Corporation, how many have died since there name was added to this list?
The Watchtower Corporation is not that dumb, however, they love to leverage at every opportunity and give the desert god – or say, “it must have been Jehovah’s hand” or holy spirit. Right?
I’m a fader (8 months) with LDC appointment – go figure.
The other day I received a phone call, from brother Browsers from Wisconsin, and he said, he was updating all the files, and he had a few questions to ask me.
Of the six questions he ask, one stands out like a sore thumb, he ask if I knew of any JW Attorneys?
I replied, I know and have retained the services of the best Attorneys in North Texas, however, they are Not one of JWs.
Brother Browser replied, thank you for the information, and thank you for your hard work.
My only question to him was, “‘wheres are the projects – I’m ready to invoice my tradesmen”, he replied, well, you know, there’s Not that much going on.
There you go folks, Brother Browser from Wisconsin ph. 715-878-4995, has confirmed several points.
The Watchtower Corporation – new kingdom Hall’s expansion was a scam.
The Watchtower Corporation – cash and crab, or get it and hit it, empty out the donations funds.
The Watchtower Corporation – new tithe implemented on all members.
The Watchtower Corporation – your new and improved – its true or its not.
Peace out,
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Sliced says:
May 23, 2016 at 9:33 am
Hi Minion,
Same situation here. Fading, and husband was approved for the “LDC” a good while back. I used to be on the RBC- but was not approved for revamped LDC… Ohhh what a loss… lol Have never heard a peep as to jobs or anything… its like they shut down every project that was on the books. Things are getting weirder and weirder when you know whats happening behind the curtain. I feel so sorry for my current JW friends who are just going along- giving every ounce of energy (and $$) to this blood sucking beast. ughhh
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Juan says:
May 20, 2016 at 12:10 pm
what about translators? im living in mexico and in this country there is no pages like this, o jwfacts. I´ll be very glad of the oportunity of translate the articles to the Cervantes lenguage.
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Covert Fade says:
May 21, 2016 at 1:43 am
Thank you very much for this offer, we will get back to you ASAP 🙂
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Brother from Austria says:
May 20, 2016 at 2:17 pm
Do you think it could make sense to translate articels into German language?
And to have further languages in future?
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Covert Fade says:
May 21, 2016 at 1:45 am
That’s a good question. Translation is a big time and effort but we do understand the need to have as much material out there as possible for Witnesses and former witnesses of all languages. If people would like to volunteer their services in this area, it’s something we might be able to consider.
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Grace says:
May 20, 2016 at 3:53 pm
This is really exciting, I love reading people life’s stories!
I especially love the life stories that tell how their progress went. From feeling trapped inside to finding their way out & successfully moving on with their lives.
One of the things I said to my Dr the other day was that I have struggled with feelings of grief when I left & have been stuck in an emotional rut. I hadn’t realised how much of a wall the cult made me build around myself. I’m only just letting people in now after 2 or so years.
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JWIntellect says:
May 20, 2016 at 4:18 pm
Thank you, JWsurvey, for this wonderful opportunity. I’ve been working on a piece of writing for the last few weeks that speaks of my initial involvement with the JW’s. I can’t wait to submit it.
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Covert Fade says:
May 21, 2016 at 4:29 am
Fantastic 🙂 Looking forward to reading it 🙂
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James Broughton says:
May 21, 2016 at 8:20 am
Lloyd, as you may know from previous correspondence, I am a committed Christian as well as having been involved with the JWs as a teenager. I write for Christian organisations which exist to help JWs see an alternative within the Church rather than being entirely critical, so to be honest it is difficult to remain ‘religiously neutral’. The reason I support JW Survey is that it does such brilliant work at exposing falsehood, which, for me, is a proper preliminary to the work that I do. It would not be fair to reveal the counterfeit without showing the genuine.
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Cedars says:
May 22, 2016 at 2:14 am
Thanks James. The good news, from your perspective, is that there has never been any shortage of “alternative” versions of religious belief available to exiting JWs. Ray Franz’s works were all written from a Christian perspective, and Christian exJW websites far outnumber their atheist/secular counterparts. Our approach is that exiting JWs should be free to choose what they believe or don’t believe, without any undue coercion from us.
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Balcácer says:
May 21, 2016 at 8:57 am
Hi Cedars (Lloyd Evans)
About a year ago, I did sent you all the lies, flaws and bad research inside the 2015 JW’s Yearbook, this time dedicate to the Dominican Republic.
Can you imagine what a bombshell? Do you want me to re-write it and send it to you?
Here is a small example of the really bad research they have, (Who ever runs that department):
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/2015-yearbook/history/overview/
“Islanders have a passion for baseball, music, and dancing, especially the merengue. The guitar is very popular, as are drums, flutes, and marimbas.”
Of course dominicans likes and loves merengues, but we do not use the marimbas to play it.
Huge mistake !
Here are some musical expresions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxyVROUgYO0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GycRXNQvj98
Newspaper clip talking about “National Day of Merengue”
No mention of the musical instrument “Marimbas”.
http://eldia.com.do/dia-nacional-del-folklore-dominicano/
(Spanish)
Baile
El ritmo del baile dominicano tiene tres instrumentos principales que distinguen la música de este país, los cuales invitan a el danza: Güira, la tambora y el acordeón.
I have more links to show.
There is more lies, included the presumptuous story that they were the first organization that was in Haiti with help, after the guru-guru, as haitians calls the earthquake of 2010.
Muchas gracias, thank you very much, Merci beaucoup
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MUGABE says:
May 21, 2016 at 1:12 pm
Rubbish
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Minion says:
May 22, 2016 at 11:03 am
@ M,
You mean The Watchtower Corporation is rubbish, compared to JWsurvey no spin zone – its true or its not.
You may have heard, there’s 3 types of society of humans, those that 1) make things happen,
2). those that watch things happen,
3). those that don’t know What Just Happen.
JWsurvey, has evolved into an ‘reach out program for knowledge and intelligent wisdom – without the Spin zone of The Watchtower Corporation’.
So, M, we understand the rubbish just fine.
Peace out,
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Kaytee says:
May 21, 2016 at 3:13 pm
I have much that I would like to say about my experience growing up and trying to raise children in the organization. Unfortunately, my family situation is unique enough that writing about it in any detail would almost certainly out us to our congregation. As long as my husband works for a brother, I have to be careful. However, he is already getting interviews, so things may change very soon.
My experiences touch on what it’s like to deal with mental health issues; raise special-needs children; lose a child in death (and more) inside an organization that is coldly indifferent to any problem that can’t be solved with prayer: an organization that will “mark” someone as faithless because they asked for help too many times.
I do not have any formal writing qualifications, and my punctuation is occasionally bizarre (though usually technically correct). This site has helped me immensely these past few weeks! I’d be happy to contribute as soon as my husband finds a job, if you think my writing could be useful.
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Kaytee says:
May 21, 2016 at 3:27 pm
I forgot to mention that I’d be happy to do proofreading as well. I have proofread at the community college level; working mostly with students for whom English is a second language. If that’s something you need, please let me know.
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fallingangel75 says:
May 22, 2016 at 8:48 am
Oh my goodness! I’m so glad for this invitation. I have not so much as commented until now, but I’ve been reading for just about a year. I’m a long-winded commenter, and I have never wanted to post an equivalent to an article in posts.
I’m a former pioneer, rbc volunteer, daughter of a pioneer elder father, pioneer mother, pioneer brother and sister, etc., etc. My entire family is all-in.
I gave my first talk at 5, was baptized at 11, started pioneering at 15, passed on college in spite of being Valedictorian and having near perfect SAT scores.
I did everything right. I was never reproved for sexual misconduct, drugs, alcohol, anything. And not because I never got caught. I really stayed out of trouble. And was proud of this fact, not in a haughty way like I was better than anyone.
Like it was a battle hard won.
Well, 6 months ago my young (37 year old) husband told me his hope has changed and he is going to heaven to rule with Christ. He no longer expects or desires to live with me on earth and have the family we planned.
Jehovah needs him more than I do and I should loyally and obediently accept the change in his destiny, and the resulting changes to our common future. I should trust it is all for the best.
I don’t want to tell all my business on the Internet, but knowing him intimately as a wife knows her husband, I am pretty sure that’s a load of crap.
However, separate from this, I was already beginning to address doubts I’d always had, and that was my final push.
I’ve read and reread many of the articles here and often thought I would like to elaborate on topics raised, but again, the length and details I had in mind seemed inappropriate for the comment section and you seemed to have a clear policy about unsolicited submissions.
I’m working a lot of hours at my job because I will probably be leaving my husband soon. He has said we have no future together if I will not abandon my apostate leanings and he will not let me jeopardize his eternal reward.
So I will not have anything to submit immediately, but definitely in the coming months. I’m very excited.
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Minion says:
May 22, 2016 at 11:47 am
@ F75,
Your actions speak louder than words. You are to be commended to have the conquest of fear – ‘Courage’.
Perhaps, your husband may need to be reminded of 1935, when the anointed class were sealed.
(Jehovah does not need me or anyone else in heaven).
Establish the “motive” or pureness of ‘having the calling’ to be with Jesus.
Since your family is All in, your journey in life is at a cross road – only You can decide what to do.
Be strong, stay strong, keep hope alive!
Peace out,
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fallingangel75 says:
May 22, 2016 at 1:54 pm
Thanks Minion. I am indeed at a cross roads. It’s a strange situation. It would be easy to assume that my husband wants out of our marriage. Or that he doesn’t love me.
We’ve been through a lot of trials in the last few years, some of which are because of choices we made in connection with being faithful witnesses. Choices that are not considered wrong in other circles. Choices that are considered perfectly acceptable in non-witness circles.
Like not taking six figure jobs with companies that have a division that has military contracts. Or companies that have interfaith religious affiliations.
As a result my husband was unemployed for 2 years and is still not working in his field as an engineer. A career he chose and went to college for.
We are told that if we put Jehovah first and don’t compromise in these ways, Jehovah may not provide a luxurious life, but sustenance and covering.
Well, instead, we slipped farther into poverty. My husband came to believe he was being persecuted and tested because he is one of Christ’s brothers, and Satan is trying to dangle temptations in front of him not unlike when Satan took Jesus to the mountain top.
Now, not to toot my own horn, but I am a loving and supportive wife. And when it seemed like my formerly loving and supportive husband was having a minor psychological breakdown, I was willing to stand by him.
Even through losing our home and struggling financially. Our marriage is forever, right?
But I drew the line at him saying that I am apostate for not believing he was called and maybe he should seek help to deal with the stress that was clearly causing a break with reality.
We went to the elders who were actually loving and kind. I find no fault with how I was treated by them on an emotional level.
However, on a practical level, they fell horribly short.
I felt like the sister in the video who was contemplating suicide. They are counseled not to tell anyone professing to be anointed that they might be delusional.
So, basically I was told to treat him with respect and love and pretend to go along, but accept in my heart that Jehovah will sort it out in the future.
And my husband was told to treat me with love and compassion until such time that I come around and accept that Jehovah will care for me and satisfy my desire for a new husband and children in the new world once he is gone to heaven.
Yes. That same common theme of playing both sides when there is an impossible logic conflict that cannot be resolved or explained by their interpretation of scripture.
Wait on Jehovah, eventually he will explain. All will be revealed. Be loyal. Be faithful. Trust. Obey.
Ignore that voice in your head telling you this is all wrong. Keep repeating the lies until they feel like the truth again.
Meanwhile we have to live every day in THIS world and make decisions that affect our lives now.
It is painful living with the man I love who has now shifted his focus to an eternity that he doesn’t even expect to share with me.
If he would wake up, we could fix every one of our problems now and not have to wait on Jehovah or the new world.
He is very smart and has marketable, enviable skills and degrees. But he is denying it all and becoming a living martyr.
I’m expected to go without everything I want and need now so that he/we can be rewarded with a future hope I don’t believe in at all anymore.
I still love him, and he hurts for me because he loves me too and he believes I’m on a path to apostasy and destruction at Armageddon.
He’s a very good man who wants to do the right things, but like so many others in the organization, he has been misled and is afraid to leave because it will mean shunning at best and perhaps his everlasting cutting off at worst.
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Winston Smith says:
May 22, 2016 at 2:07 pm
With the new overlapping generation teaching, I think you will see more and more professed annointed ones coming out. I forget the exact stats, but I don’t believe any of the current GB members were even baptized before 1935. I am looking ahead to the time when memorial partakers actually exceed 144,000. Then there will be new light to explain that, I am sure.
@F75,
My circumstances are very much like yours: Born in, whole family in, pioneered after HS, being male, an elder at a very young age. But I eventually saw through all the smoke and mirrors and realized we were all being manipulated. Leaving was hard, but you have to follow your conscience.
So welcome to our band of rebels. I look forward to seeing articles you submit In the future.
WS
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Big B says:
May 25, 2016 at 10:55 am
@ WS
You bet there will be “New Light”! The organization will finally fess up to the reality that the 144,000, like everything else in Revelation, is a symbolic number. Thus, 12 symbolic tribes x 12,000 symbolic members from each symbolic tribe = 144,000 symbolic members. There is nothing literal there .
Does anyone think that the early Christian church was not composed of millions of adherents by the beginning of the 2nd century? Why else would the Roman Empire be in such an uproar persecuting Christians during Domitian’s reign if the Christian church was just a few thousand members? Because its membership was in its millions! And where were those adherents promised their reward, “Paradise Earth” or rule with Christ in heaven.
If you look at the Memorial attendance vs. partakers the attendance is truly on the down slide while the partakers (for the last ten years) average over 500 world wide. In other words there are more than 5,000 partakers now than there were say 11 years ago.
Are all those people now partaking delusional? Are they just guests believing they are heaven bound? Or have the rank & file members taken matters in their own hands and decided that the “cut off” date of 1935 is just baloney? Interesting indeed.
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bible_truths says:
May 22, 2016 at 5:02 pm
I feel sorry for you to go through this, but if its any comfort and you still hold a faith, i urge you to carefully examine the bible, because the answers are all there.
Mankind has only ONE hope as Jehovah intended for Adam and Eve, and its clearly mentioned in the bible, having two hopes is complete nonsense and goes against everything the bible teaches.
Do you really think Jehovah would want to separate families and take some up in heaven with their sons, daughters and wives left here on earth?
As im still JW, i cant share this freely without being considered an apostate.
This is the first time ive commented on any such site, and i just cant sit here anymore and read comments like yours without saying something.
All the answers are in the bible, im trying to stay neutral here with in the rules, but there is alot more to the picture than you realize.
Ill leave it as that, and hope its some relief. 🙂
P.S
If anyone reading this can recommend any places that i can discuss JW teachings and share my views, i would like to know, i cant write an article here without it not sounding evangelical, since i want to share my personal christian views.
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Sliced says:
May 23, 2016 at 11:19 am
I am already very intrigued by your story- hope to read more soon. 🙂
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Grace says:
May 23, 2016 at 2:44 pm
bible_truths,
Try the Borean Pickets website.
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bible_truths says:
May 23, 2016 at 3:31 pm
Grace, thanks for that!
Their sites have lots of great resources!
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KimJones says:
May 22, 2016 at 10:15 am
It’s important for the articles being submitted to be truthful and not have lies in them. As a doubting JW, what attracted me to the ‘John Cedars’ you tube videos was the fact he used the society’s own publications to expose them. He does a great job. Three of my ‘worldly’ relatives and I watched his you tube videos together. We started to watch a girl’s video bur she was so sarcastic one of my cousins said “Oh, she’s just angry” and turned it off to a different video. People can tell when they’re being loaded up verses when someone is being honest. Let me give you an example, one time a coworker who hates mormons told me mormons teach they are all going to be Mr. and Mrs. Gods when they go to heaven. I believed him. I asked another coworker who is a practicing mormon if what I was told was true and he said NO they don’t teach that. The point I’m trying to make is witnesses who are waking up will know what the religion’s teachings are and they’re here because they want conformation regarding their doubts. ‘John Cedars’ really has helped a lot of people. I know he helped me.
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Winston Smith says:
May 22, 2016 at 2:13 pm
CF,
I started writing an article a couple months ago with the intent of sending it in to see if you would publish it. Other demands have prevented me from finishing it, but your latest request provides me with new incentive to get it done.
WS
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fallingangel75 says:
May 22, 2016 at 4:39 pm
Thanks Winston, I look forward to seeing what you have to say as well. Absolutely. I agree that more and more are claiming to be anointed.
I was surprised when I started to talk to my friends about my husband how many people younger than us and around our age were having the same experience.
Honestly, in my circle of friends, there wasn’t a single person who didn’t say, oh yeah, my brother-in-law, or my best friend, or my pioneer partner just started partaking.
And they are newlyweds and young couples just starting families.
Why would God do that? Why would he let young people just starting out in life fall in love and start a family and then immediately call one of them to heaven. One and not both, with no indication that they will ever get to be together again?
Oh, right. They are now using the phrase ‘extend an invitation’. But anyway, how is any of that an expression of God’s eternal love for us?
No one wants to address the fact that this is in direct opposition to what we were all taught and that all the publications still emphasize that it is supposedly a completely unnatural desire to go to heaven.
Except when it isn’t?
Jehovah will give you everything wholesome you ever wanted.
Except when it doesn’t fit in with his purpose?
Jehovah unites and blesses families.
Except when he decides to take husbands and fathers from their wives and children because: kings and priests forever? Wait? What? Why?
And absolutely every one of my friends is looking at me like I have two heads for asking those questions.
Everyone tells me that I should talk to the person they know. And find out what they did to make peace with it.
Ummm. No. I want this to stay uncomfortable. I want it to feel wrong and unacceptable because it is.
I want them to see that it’s wrong and doesn’t fit. It isn’t loving.
It doesn’t even make sense within the framework of their own mythology. The internal conflicts even within their own publications and teachings are so maddeningly convoluted and frustrating.
Ugh! I’m so glad to have found this group though. Otherwise I would be going out of my mind right about now.
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Bad Penny says:
May 23, 2016 at 6:20 am
Hi guys –
I’ve done some extensive research on ‘The Memorial’ and all it entails. The very fact that most JWs reject the bread and wine as they “are not one of the anointed” is a mockery of what Jesus instituted. He died for ALL, not just a few.
The whole JW concept is flawed. I’m trying to get it all down in writing so I can send it on to you – OK?
It will help ones like Fallingangel to come to terms with her husband’s ‘hope’.
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fallingangel75 says:
May 23, 2016 at 9:24 am
Thanks Bad Penny,
Yeah, about that.
Coming to terms with my husband’s ‘hope’….
I appreciate your concern for me and others who are in a similar situation.
I am interested to read what you have put together, but I have already completely rejected the teaching in my own mind and heart.
I attended the Memorial this year as I have done every year of my entire life. My husband told me about the change in his hope a few months beforehand to prepare me for the eventuality that he would partake.
I was still trying to allow for the fact that I might have been wrong. I’m not sure if you were a witness or not, BP, I’m sorry I don’t remember the details about you.
But we are taught that it is a terrible sin, an unforgiveable sin, to grieve or resist the holy spirit.
I was still praying to Jehovah for help, for comfort, for understanding, and for peace. If he was going to help me accept this change and preserve my marriage, I did not think I could hope to accomplish that by staying home on this ‘most important occasion, the only one that Jesus commanded his followers to celebrate.’
I wanted to be there to allow his holy spirit to comfort me or give me peace and new insight if such a thing were possible.
How could a loving God extend this invitation to my husband and wreck my world and shatter my faith without throwing me a lifeline of some sort?
I poured my heart out to him in prayer for weeks leading up to the Memorial and cried more tears than I ever did in my life.
Surely if he had caused this change, and he saw that I was earnestly seeking comfort and understanding from him and through his organization, he would answer me.
Guess what? Nada. Big surprise. :-/
Oh my God! I sat there with nothing more than extreme bitterness and resentment in my heart, for one.
But for another thing, I sat and I listened and all of the explanations and illustrations just made absolutely no logical sense to me.
I wondered if it was the same talk and teachings I’d been hearing all my life, how did it suddenly sound so ludicrous?
Even though I was raised in the truth, I’ve always had issues with the teaching of the two destinies, not the smallest of which was that it invariably separates families and marriage mates, potentially forever, and at the very least for the duration of Christ’s thousand year reign.
But I was always encouraged not to think too deeply on it, or ask too many questions.
Having the paradise hope instilled in me since childhood, I never had any personal desire to go to heaven, nor any fear of a burning hell.
My parents and siblings never expressed a heavenly hope, so even though it didn’t sit right with me, I was able to largely ignore my concerns since it didn’t directly affect me or my immediate family.
I can remember having conversations with my friends growing up about how tragic it would feel if our mate had a change in their hope, but we also took great comfort in the fact that everyone we knew who professed to be of the anointed was old. Really old.
Like, we were teenagers and they were in their late 70s and 80s. Even as younger ones in their 50s and 60s started to partake, we were still in our 20s.
So, it started to be an evident concern among more people we knew, but still it was our parents’ friends, and not us.
I always thought: I could not accept that. I could not accept that. Jehovah knows that I could not accept that.
He knows me and loves me as an individual. He would not test my faith in this way. He would not ask me to prove my loyalty in that scenario.
So, I still thought it was a painfully unfair arrangement, but I just imagined that there was something else that others knew, or that Jehovah knew about them that I didn’t.
Who is going to say: ‘Hey. I married this man when I was 19 and if I had been older, wiser, more experienced in the ways of the world, I would have chosen someone else. He is a good man, and he loves Jehovah, but I really don’t want to be married to him forever, so I’m ok with the fact that Jehovah is taking him and I get a do-over in the new system.’?
But I secretly believed that the only way marriage mates could not be completely devastated about losing their husband or wife to heaven was that they didn’t really love them as completely as I was going to love my husband, or that somehow their faith and trust and love for Jehovah was on a level mine would never reach and they had some divine insight and/or understanding and/or peace and ability to be self-sacrificing that I would never attain.
But still, ok, nothing I would ever have to deal with on a personal level. Because I’m just too young.
And I love my husband dearly, but of all the men and women that have EVER lived and died and with a finite number of people left for Jehovah to choose to take to heaven of his servants now living, he is more uniquely qualified? Umm, no….
Always with the questions that cannot be answered reasonably, the elders, and the organization come back to this: frequently they admit that the bible doesn’t support the doctrine and explanation that has been given by them.
But then they make it about your everlasting salvation and the strength of your faith and the level of your trust in Jehovah and they say, ‘We really don’t have a good answer for you, but do you want to die at Armageddon and miss out on your reward, just because you had unanswered questions? These questions are likely to be answered fully and to your satisfaction in the new world. Perhaps explained in the new scrolls. Just get there. Focus on getting there. You’ll be so glad you did and you’ll wonder why you were ever upset about any of it in the first place.’
And that God’s thoughts are higher than man’s thoughts.
This is what I was told even before it became so personal for me.
It didn’t ring true then, and it rang even less true when it was my husband and the love of my life, and our eternal future in question.
I know I mentioned we were having problems, but we actually had a very good marriage up until this. In spite of the financial difficulties and strains, we were really sticking together and supporting each other and not laying blame or pointing fingers. We were making the best of a bad situation.
I was really proud of us.
I am still not certain what I am going to do next in life. Or where I will go. Literally, physically, I am not sure where I will live or how I will replace the friends I will inevitably lose.
Spiritually, I am not sure if I will become affiliated with any other organized religion or if I will try to have a personal relationship with God, the real God, apart from organized religion.
Is there a ‘real’ God? I’m not sure.
Does he want us to worship him? How does he want us to worship him? Also, not sure.
But I am certainly never again going to spend my time and energy stripping other people, not even current witnesses, of their long-held and cherished beliefs.
As I said before, my entire immediate family, and most of my husband’s family are all Witnesses in good standing, and I have been one for all of my life.
However, I have been inactive in the ministry and I have not attended meetings since he made his change in hope known to me.
But because I have such a good track record of never having been in trouble, and everyone understands this to be a traumatic turn of events for me, I am currently getting a pass and have not been dealt with judicially in any way.
Only lovingly (yes, really) encouraged to return to Jehovah and his congregation and the brotherhood that loves me.
I’ve gotten greeting cards and phone calls and texts reminding me that they love me and Jehovah loves me too. I cannot say I was shown the door and rejected or abandoned, as many have expressed.
I am not sure how long that will last and I feel like it would certainly immediately be revoked if I were outed for commenting in this way on this site.
Needless to say there is a lot of uncertainty in my immediate future.
But sincere thanks to you, BP, and all of the kind strangers here who have offered words of encouragement and support!
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Sliced says:
May 23, 2016 at 11:41 am
Fallen- wow, again- your circumstances are so intriguing to me. Thanks for sharing and looking forward to hearing more from you soon! 😉
bible_truths says:
May 23, 2016 at 3:35 pm
FA, have you read my earlier comment?
Thanks 🙂
fallingangel75 says:
May 23, 2016 at 5:40 pm
Yes, bible_truths, I would like to try to speak with you further, but I am not sure how to reach out to anyone individually without outing myself completely. I’m not prepared for the consequences of that. I am too fragile emotionally, right now.
bible_truths says:
May 24, 2016 at 4:41 pm
FA, thats quite understandable.
You are indeed in a real sticky situation like alot of us right now.
Whatever you do on the internet, dont ever say anything that could personally identify you.
Register a free anon email at salusafe if you ever decide to engage with anyone. Its also useful to use as an email when commenting here or registering on any forums also.
Grace earlier mentioned the Borean Pickets website, and ive found the same reasoning as what ive believed for some time now.
As a child I was distressed by the heavenly hope after we studied the revelation book, I used to ask Jehovah in prayer that I was not one of the 144000 as I was frightened i would be taken up there if I was a “good” example.
Ive got the answers ive been looking for, and its a real relief to know the truth, it really does set you free.
We are told to study the bible, yet if we come to an understanding (from our personal study) that contradicts with what we are told, that its apostate. Hang in there, you will find the answers 🙂
Minion says:
May 24, 2016 at 7:12 pm
@BP, @FA, @S @WS,
Isn’t informative – a web site as JWsurvey, one can share life’s experience as extensive as FA is reporting. And report breaking news.
I’m a fader of 8 months, I did attend the memorial with my wife, and a few family members of which they are also becoming faders. We attended, no big thing – we had super and picked-a-part the lame memorial talk.
I don’t follow JW dot org, or read the over-lapping under-napping publications.
Based on the reference material sited, from The Watchtower Corporation, it seems to me they will be adding more men in addition to the 7 men – the governing body.
Also, its been rumoured The Watchtower Corporation will be appointing the first Latino to be part of the GB.
Why does he have to be Latino?
Why not from the north or south pole?
There you go folks, you heard it first from JWsurvey. The no spin zone.
Peace out,
zsazsa.exjw says:
May 23, 2016 at 12:16 am
Hi there,
I love this site, and it’s really drawn me in with its balanced coverage and reasonable criticisms.
Although never baptised, I basically grew up in this religion (mostly unhappily, but with a glazed-over cult-face, believing that death in armageddon was my fate). I would preach as little as possible, in the ghetto areas of Johannesburg, until I followed my brother and did my research (including Ray Franz’ book) and made my escape at age 23. Life suddenly improved drastically in terms of freedom of action and speech, and my brother and I eventually talked my mother into a mode of inactivity. But because she was baptised and much more indoctrinated, her life did not immediately get better. The elders gave her their own piece of hell.
I’d like to write more about my story and JW-related events here in South Africa. I’m still vaguely in touch with a few JWs. The force appears quite strong in them here :p but I’m sure there are many that would like to get out. Also, apparently 250 Bethelites were asked to leave recently? I would love to investigate the fallout from that.
My view of JWs in general is that they are mostly sincere, well-meaning people, brainwashed into holding onto false hope with all their might, while the GB is basically running a worldwide land-grabbing operation under their noses. I have no idea whether the GB believes their own drivel or not, but Stephen Lett’s bizarrely condescending beaming high-brow face is one of the creepiest things I’ve ever seen.
Thank you for providing this wonderful platform for JW survivors.
Nicky, Cape Town
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fallingangel75 says:
May 23, 2016 at 1:07 am
Nicky, I look forward to hearing your story also. I agree with you. Most JWs I know are sincere, caring people. I’ve moved quite a bit and been a part of many congregations.
I also traveled a lot when I was younger and single. I was welcomed into so many homes and fed and given shelter while working on construction projects.
My father visited congregations and gave talks, and we were often treated to meals in homes or local restaurants.
People I just met felt like old friends because we had ‘the truth’ in common. I always took that to be evidence that this is God’s representative organization on earth.
I would like to hear what is happening in South Africa. I thought of moving there once about 10 years ago. I was having expat (I’m American), exjw fantasies then.
It was before I got married and I thought long and hard about leaving my family and friends behind and reinventing myself in a place where no one knew me.
I agree with you as well that many more than we know surely want to leave, but the fear of dying at Armageddon and/or losing their loved ones now is what keeps them in.
If I believed Armageddon was real and really just around the corner, I’m still willing to take my chances. I know I’m a good person with a kind heart. I have a hard time believing that a just God would judge me worthy of death, simply for having questions and doubts.
And if there is a God who would punish me with death for such, I don’t want to serve that God for eternity. The price of admission to that new world is one I am unwilling to pay.
However, the thought of being without my extensive network of lifelong friends now, deeply grieves me – much more than the thought of missing out on eternal life.
I’m certain there are thousands, if not tens or hundreds of thousands still in who feel the same way, not even counting those who had the courage to leave already.
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Winston Smith says:
May 23, 2016 at 8:46 am
Thinking about the welcoming spirit you experienced when traveling, and yes many JWs are kind hearted people. However, would they extend that kindness to non-JWs who they were not ‘related to in the faith?’ Think about the ‘Good Samaritan’ of Jesus parable. He was not related to the Jewish man in faith and even despised by many Jews. JWs often treat worldly people like 2nd class citizens (except when they see them as potential converts). And if someone DF’d or even just inactive they often treat them as a non-person. My point being that the so-called love they show others is conditional and can quickly evaporate when circumstances change.
WS
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fallingangel75 says:
May 23, 2016 at 9:36 am
Preaching to the choir, now WS. I USED to think it was evidence that they were God’s one true organization. No more.
But there is still a lot of love and compassion extended and shared between those who are in good standing.
The conditional love is not unique to Witnesses, neither is the evaporation of so-called love and friendship when circumstances change.
Many people who were rich find they have no friends when they lose their money and can no longer pay their own way or pay for others to keep a certain lifestyle, for example.
So, that is not anything I judge them harshly for. In my opinion it is neither pro, nor con, it sort of cancels out.
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Holy Connoli says:
May 23, 2016 at 10:35 am
WS and Falling Angel. The Love the JW’s have is extremely conditional. More than most other people and religions I am aware of.For Example my wife whom I currently do not live with is a “PIONEER” and a WT corporate lady and thinks they can do no Wrong. Even though she readily admits some horrendous mistakes they have made she justifies it as “progressive revelation”.
She likes to proclaim to me that her organization and friends have “UNCONDITIONL LOVE” for her and the JW’s. I always point out that actually the very opposite is true bc if you dare question, leave or become inactive the love is pretty much over. If you get DF’d you are not spoken to and shunned on the streets and in your own home. Even if you have been a Faithful JW WT person for 35-50 years once you challenge or doubt or have an awakening your “Unconditional Love” id over forever! I have seen it happen many, many times to JW’s. One Super humble Brother got DF’ds for a bad “attitude”! He did nothing wrong just ws challenging some decisions made by the elders to a personal friend of his and wanted Justice. So they DF’d him? They have the power and abuse it,any times. I tolds her as long as you stay within the BOX of the WT you will be ok. But dare to step outside that box and think for yourself and even speak it out loud and you will be SHUNNED and all that “LOVE” is thrown out the door. “WORDLY” people do not throw their own family and friends under the Bus like the KW’s do. It is heartbreaking to see it happen. The reality is there really si s not the Love they speak of bc they have to answer to th WT Headquarters and they themselves will be DF’d if they show love to a DF person. There are many good JW’s who do show love bu t the WT org with all of its many made up pharisaical rules will not allow it. I have experienced in my years as a JW many great people that were good folks but also the many, many harsh folks of reality
and nonsense teachings that divided many people and destroyed family. Believe me, there is more love outside the org than inside the org.
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fallingangel75 says:
May 23, 2016 at 12:52 pm
@ Holy Connoli,
I’m pretty sure Winston and I were both in agreement with you that the JW love is conditional.
Part of why I am having such a mighty struggle now is the fact that I know the change in my own hope, as it were, and the change in my belief system will cost me all of my dearest relationships, including my husband.
Even if I do not get disfellowshipped as a result, I will become persona non grata at family functions, on vacations, even to public events like plays, concerts or movies.
I will not be invited to weddings or baby showers or housewarming parties. I will be unwelcome at events I used to attend alongside unbelieving mates and siblings and cousins who were never baptized and never served ‘shoulder to shoulder’ in the ministry or on construction projects.
It is a terrible fate to contemplate, and for some, I understand how it can seem a fate worse than death.
Shunning is a cruel practice.
But I also understand, from the inside, and the other side how completely reasonable it is made to sound.
It is explained as a loving arrangement and on the surface, and when it isn’t you or your loved ones, it does not seem as harmful as it truly is.
We are led to believe that most people who leave do so because they choose not to take the moral high ground or were not faithful under test.
They have done something that Jehovah and the bible says is wrong, and they have said they are not sorry and do not wish to abandon their wrong course.
Or, what they did was so wrong, they must be disciplined regardless of whether they were sorry.
We are told that it is to teach the unrepentant wrongdoer a lesson they would not have learned otherwise and that the goal is to bring them back to an approved state.
We are taught that people who leave and stay out do so because they are CHOOSING not to make things right by bringing their lives in line with Jehovah’s requirements.
They are actively choosing to separate themselves from Jehovah and their own loved ones. They are actively choosing a sinful course over the love and support of their family.
Non-JWs do cut off family members. They dislike job choices, or choice of marriage partners, or determine that an individual is a truly toxic influence due to drug addiction or sexual perversion. Non-JWs do have legitimate reasons and also selfish, petty ones for cutting off family members.
So when you are on the inside and you compare the noble reason of shunning a friend or a family member in the hopes that they will see the error of their ways and return to the fold, it does not seem as harsh and heartless.
I am not saying this to defend the practice. I am saying this to say that I understand how good and loving people go along with it, in spite of the fact that it should feel wrong to us all.
We are not told why people are df’d and are usually left to draw our own conclusions, which may or not be correct. Elders are not supposed to discuss the particulars. Unless a df’d person is a friend or family member, they may not ever tell you what happened. And we are led to believe that the vast majority leave because of fornication or adultery.
When it is framed as a choice that they made to leave Jehovah, and a choice that you are making to help them return, it really doesn’t seem so bad.
Granted, it is. It is terrible, and I have thought so for years, even before I was facing it myself.
But I fell back on the scripture that many of my friends have read to me of late: who will separate us from the love of Christ?
And I really thought we were applying it correctly. That no matter what had gone on, and even if things were mishandled, as individuals we should try to seek Jehovah’s forgiveness and try to realign ourselves with his organization.
It’s what I was taught. It’s what all of us were taught. And the people who believe differently are not around to offer a counterpoint. We are not allowed to discuss it with them.
I see how wrong all of that is, but I still understand how it continues, and my heart aches because I don’t know how it will end.
However, I still also feel that conditional love and exclusion takes many forms in this world we live in, and JWs are not the only ones who practice it.
There may not be many other groups who carry it out on such an institutional and organizational scale, or who dictate to members that they should separate themselves from friends and family as a result of rules and beliefs they may not even fully endorse.
That is wrong. I do not support or defend it.
But I also feel that it does not diminish the value of the love that one individual in the organization shows to another individual.
I think it is important to separate the ire and contempt we might feel for the organization and it’s harmful policies from what we feel for individuals who are misled and really believe they are doing the right thing to protect the congregation and work out the eternal salvation of their loved ones.
It is a harmful practice, to be sure, and it needs to go!
But it is as unfair to say that all JWs are mindless and heartless to follow the teaching, as it is to say anyone who is not a witness will be devoted to destruction.
Many people do go along with it because they have not thought about it deeply enough, and we keep hearing that it is the right thing to do.
We are even repeatedly told that it is an expression of our love and loyalty to Jehovah and our love and loyalty to the df’d individual, which does sound ludicrous to me now, but it didn’t always.
I don’t think JWs have a corner on the market for showing love, or for withholding it. There is a lot of kindness and generosity in the world at large, but also a lot of cruelty, abuse, and neglect both on a large and small scale.
Winston Smith says:
May 23, 2016 at 5:09 pm
@FA75,
Not sure if you have seen this before, but I recommend checking out this article on fear and mind control on jwfacts: http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/fear-cult-mind-control.php
It helps explain what is behind seemingly kind people being able to act so unkind towards others, even members of their own family, when told to do so by a religious authority.
WS
FadingJosie says:
May 23, 2016 at 11:31 pm
Ahhh…a fellow SAfrican! Now I am finally ready to post my first comment!!
So many times while reading the site over the past couple of years I had the idea that most who commented were foreigners and that very few in SA were even aware of what was “out there” concerning ttatt…I am the only JW in my family but my husband’s family were all in…likely drawn in by the insinuations made ahead of 1975. As the boys have grown older their views have changed and they no longer subscribe to it (much to their parents’ distress) but the underlying vibe that has resulted makes family get togethers unnecessarily stressful events. I wish for the sake of my own children that it didn’t have to be this way…who knows? Maybe writing an article about my own experience will be cathartic. Like many who have commented previously, I have mulled over it many times in my head wishing I could put the words to paper…the time for that may have arrived!
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Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:
May 23, 2016 at 2:02 am
Rejoicing Jehovah = Making Satan sad; Rejoicing Satan= Making Jehovah sad.
Let’s not be partial and rejoice both “Masters”! This will surely be a safe way for humans to deal with these powerful spiritual dictators…
*** w15 5/15 p. 12 par. 10 Be Watchful—Satan Wants to Devour You! ***
Satan no doubt rejoices when one of God’s servants becomes stained with serious sin. In fact, such victories may be among the things the Devil uses to taunt Jehovah
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Paranoid Android says:
May 23, 2016 at 12:17 pm
Bit off topic I’m afraid. .But does anyone know how I can get hold of two lapel cards for the UK district convention ?
I want to be there on the Friday to hear the talks on Shunning and the talk about loyalty being better than life.
My older bro is very much immersed in this hideous cult and I’m concerned about the new directives being spewed out by the GB.
I’d like to hear first hand what is being taught and also to get a feel for what the general reaction/atmosphere will be.
Anyone able to advise Please?
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Sarah says:
May 23, 2016 at 12:33 pm
Just go. No-one will stop you even if you don’t have a card. You can tell us what happens.
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Paranoid Android says:
May 23, 2016 at 12:44 pm
Ah.. thought I couldn’t get in without a lapel card.
Cool. I shall attend – Feel sick just thinking about going… its been 20 years….
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Tara says:
May 24, 2016 at 7:23 am
Just turn up and say you got an invitation through the door. They will be all over you, love bombing etc…. Man on the inside, I love it. I’m not going. The elders have already left an invite in my door with a little note attached…. they wrote exactly the same thing on the one they left in my daughters door lol. How very personal.
FA, my heart bleeds for you. It reminded me very much of a story I read about a woman who’s husband left her and her family to become a Monk. She was devastated obviously. I think I would feel betrayed as I am sure you must. When my husband left me, alone in a new country with two children, for another woman and a ‘new life’ I was numb. I couldn’t believe he would do that. I relied on the brothers to help me and for a while they did. When other things happened in my life, the kids being df’d etc I found their love was conditional. I haven’t been to a meeting now for 6 months. I went to the memorial but it meant nothing to me. The love bombing was fake. I am so glad you have had the courage to open up on here. The support is amazing.
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Sarah says:
May 23, 2016 at 12:26 pm
Winston, I’d like to read your story when it appears here. You might like to know that after the Supreme Court ruled that JW secret rules were unlawful, I sent a letter to several KHs to explain to elders that, should they continue to use these secret rules, they would be held responsible if someone committed suicide as a result.
I wrote letters to the coroners’ office to alert them to the danger too.
The secret rules state that elders must not inform an accused person of what they are accused! That accused person cannot defend himself because he doesn’t know what he is accused of. An appeal committee speaks to the original committee in secret before discussing an appeal case with the accused. Thus the appeal committee is prejudiced. There are lots more of course.
These secret rules are similar to those of the Inquisition.
Winston, as a former elder, can you add to this or comment on it? Thanks.
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Winston Smiths says:
May 23, 2016 at 5:31 pm
Sarah,
From my experience with the judicial process, elders have to tell the accused what they are being accused of and allow them two confront their accusers (while this process is not proper in a child abuse case, in does protect the accused in other types of cases). It is true that in some cases the elders do not fully disclose all the charges or provide a list of witnesses until the judicial hearing (providing the accused no opportunity to prepare a proper defense). Because the hearing takes place behind closed doors (witnesses are only allowed to offer testimony and then told to leave) it is not surprising that justice is often perverted. Quite a difference from cases in Bible times which were decided at the gates of the city.
The proper procedure from back when I served was to first form an investigative committee. In this committee often two (but sometimes 3) elders meet with the accused and/or witnesses to determine if their is sufficient evidence to hold a judicial committee. Often they may not meet with the accused, but only the witnesses. The primary purpose of the investigative committee is to determine guilt or at least evidence of guilt. The primary purpose of the judicial committee is not to determine guilt (since this has often already been determined by the investigative committee), but rather repentance and whether to disfellowship. So to your point often guilt is determined before the accused even knows that they are being investigated. If the elder body is large enough it is often recommended that the different elders serve on these two committees, although often this does not occur. Because the whole process takes place in secret, it is easy for those with hidden agendas and ulterior motives to take advantage of the situation and manipulate things to a certain outcome.
I never got much involved in the appeals process. What I recall from KM school was that there needed to be new evidence that was not available before or something has come out as grossly improper in the first case in order for the appeal to be granted.
WS
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Sarah says:
May 23, 2016 at 10:46 pm
Many thanks, Winston. In court WT’s barrister said that an accused person would be informed in general terms. I was accused of slander but not told what the slander was nor who I had slandered! As I hadn’t slandered anyone I was confused, to say the least. As you say the JH was only to see if I was repentant. How could I be repentant of something I didn’t know about? I told the committee I couldn’t lie and therefore I refused to attend. Thereafter I threatened to go to court but the branch office quickly arranged an appeal. If I had known the appeal committee speaks with the original committee first in secret I would not have agreed to one. I would have gone to court immediately.
I was exonerated but only after the most awful harassment. I had to face 7 elders on my own. I only got through by writing continually to the branch office.
However, after five years the matter was raised again by someone and the harassment started again. Elders lied about apologizing to me and so on.
The courts took the view I was statute barred, but told WT that their secret rules are unlawful due to breaching the laws of natural justice. The court hoped WT would take notice. They did not.
Many thanks for help.
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Winston Smith says:
May 24, 2016 at 8:21 am
Sarah,
In my opinion, someone had it in for you. The injustice you suffered is typical in what many have here referred to as the “JW Kangaroo Court”. You are supposed to be able to confront your accusers. Did they ever produce the person that said they had heard you slander and allow you to address those charges with them?
It’s a harrowing process dealing with this system which is set up to favor the organization / BOE. I had a friend in a similar situation where the elders were pursing him relentlessly over a past business dispute (and these guys have what legal training in such matters?). The only way it was resolved was when he contacted his attorney and the attorney sent a cease and desist letter directly to the branch. i can’t imagine the amount of time, effort, and resources the branch must spend based on botched judicial cases. All I can say is stupid is as stupid does.
WS
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Sarah says:
May 25, 2016 at 12:05 am
Thanks WS. The original committee made dreadful mistakes and
thereafter could not admit their wrong.
But the point is that because the J Hearing is only to see if you are repentant you do not have an opportunity to defend yourself. By that time the elders have already made up their minds as to the guilt of the accused person. This is against all principles of law.
If the first time an accused person is allowed to confront his accusers is at a meeting where the decision has already been made, then justice has already gone out the door.
The principles of natural justice are very interesting and one of which WT is very well aware. but they believe they do not have to conform to these, although these principles of law are ones Jehovah has set in place.
Irish law is based on scripture which is probably why the judges reached their rulings concerning the unlawfulness of WT’s secret rules.
The other thing is, the crazy things said against me came as such a surprise that I was not prepared to answer them.
Later 2 elders apologized to me in private but five years later in a secret elders meeting they claimed they had not apologized. When I found out about it, one of the elders got cross and stated that an elders’ meeting is confidential and I should not have found out what they had said.
I am so grateful to be able to expose this in public, so thanks WS.
dee2 says:
May 23, 2016 at 2:53 pm
Hi fallingangel75,
Your are indeed in an interesting situation. Just wondering,
How does your husband KNOW that he is uniquely qualified to go to heaven to be a part of the 144,000? For that matter, how does anyone KNOW this?
Have you ever been able to discuss the 144,000 doctrine with your husband, for example:
– How is it that God has has been able to find almost 8 million true Witness Christians to date yet he has not been able to find 144,000 true Christians over a period of almost 2000 years since Christianity’s beginning until now?
I suppose he will have an interesting rationalized answer to this question.
– If you can get him to read Revelation 20 about those who will be kings and priests with Christ for a thousand years, point out to him that Revelation 20 also states that these persons had not worshiped the beast nor its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. Ask him how will this be possible if the 144,000 (which are assumed to be the same persons in Revelation 20 according to WT theology) will not be on earth during the reign of the beast, according to WT theology (It seems their not being on earth during the reign of the beast is really how the 144,000 will avoid worshipping the beast or its image and receiving its mark on their foreheads or their hands).
– Does he think the description of the 144,000 given in Revelation 14 is literal or figurative?
– According to Revelation 20, those who granted the first resurrection, will reign with Christ for 1000 years.
According to WT theology, the heavenly resurrection began in 1918 after Jesus’ enthronement in 1914. (Revelation It’s Grand Climax At Hand 1988, pg. 103)
So given that, according to WT theology:
* Christ commenced reigning in 1914
* the heavenly resurrection of the 144,000 commenced in 1918 *BUT Christ’s 1000-year reign is yet future, then it is clear that the 144,000 will rule with Christ for more than 1000 years.
I suppose it can be said that those of the 144,000 who have been resurrected since 1918, won’t take up their duties until the millennium begins. In the meantime, they are just sitting around in heaven twiddling their thumbs. If that’s the case, why did the heavenly resurrection commence in 1918?
Best wishes.
Reply
fallingangel75 says:
May 23, 2016 at 5:34 pm
Believe me, dee2, we have been around and around about it! I’ve already made lots of long posts here about my feelings on the matter in the last 72 hours. You can be sure I have thoroughly discussed this with my husband and questioned him inside out and up and down!
Do I seem like the kind of person to let a subject go without exhaustively looking into it?
Therein lies our problem and probably the end of our marriage. My line of questioning for him on a personal level and about the doctrine as a whole is what led him to say that I was an apostate and should turn myself in to the elders and tell them how I really feel so that I can be disfellowshipped / disassociated.
He is thoroughly convinced. Anyone who is still attending meetings and/or keeping up with the magazines would have read the recent study article that addressed the invitation anointed ones receive.
January 2016 Study Edition, Week of March 14 -20. Title: The Spirit Bears Witness With Our Spirit. It was studied at the Sunday meeting around the time of the Memorial this year.
All my friends wanted to call me and text me and tell me what an amazing and encouraging article it was. Such evidence and proof that Jehovah and the faithful and discreet slave are looking out for us and giving us food at the proper time.
Proof that Jehovah knew that I would need this to shore up my faith.
*dramatic eye roll*
I felt like it was a lame attempt to explain why so many more have professed to be of the anointed in the last 10 or 15 years. And I suppose a lame attempt to comfort the divided, heartbroken families and spouses.
This was an actual subheading: How the anointing process works.
Paragraph 6 –
“So not all are anointed in exactly the same manner. Some may have had a rather sudden realization of their calling, while others experienced a more gradual realization. However, no matter how this anointing takes place, each one has what the apostle Paul described: ‘After you believed, you were sealed by means of him with the promised holy spirit, which is a token in advance of our inheritance.’ (Eph. 1:13,14) This special operation of holy spirit becomes like a down payment, a guarantee (or, a pledge) of what is to come. An anointed Christian gains an inner conviction because of this token that he or she has received. 2 Corinthians 1:21,22; 5:5”
Got that? Clear as mud, right?
I thought it was pretty vague. I kind of summarize it thus: one day you wake up and you feel like God called you, or maybe also, little by little over time.
Yeah. Okay. Sure.
Theme scripture Rom 8:16, “The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children.”
Lovely. Sounds legit.
Did I mention that the article says that whether it is our hope to make our home in heaven with Jesus or live forever on a paradise earth, our lives are deeply affected by the events of Pentecost 33 C.E.?
Damn, skippy!
In paragraphs 8, 9 the article gets even more specific (no, not really) as it goes on to elaborate (again, no, not usefully) under the subheading How Does Someone Know?
The writer admits that it is difficult for most people to understand what happens when someone is anointed, because, ‘It is not something they experience. God’s original purpose was for mankind to live forever here on earth.’ It also goes on to say, ‘this calling causes a profound change in the thinking, outlook, and hope of a person when he is anointed. – Eph 1:18’
This HAS happened for my husband, but I feel that it is the way of any self-fulfilling prophecy or major delusion. I do not see it as evidence of the holy spirit bearing witness with his.
But he says that I am just determined to tear him down because I find it too painful to believe that we won’t be together. My disbelief isn’t the result of lack of proof, it is because I have allowed my emotions to guide and mislead me. I am not seeing the situation through eyes of faith.
It isn’t possible that I am the rational one who is dealing with truth and reality. It isn’t possible that he has swallowed a pack of lies.
Again, back to the article, it states at the end of paragraph 9, “Simply put, by means of his holy spirit, God makes it clear to that person that he is invited to become a future heir in the Kingdom arrangement.”
Oh, okay. Yeah. I understand perfectly now. Thanks for the thorough explanation. Why did I have doubts?
We’re going to go with, ‘Because Jehovah said so’, as our logical linchpin.
Paragraph 10 goes on to say, “Jehovah leaves no doubt whatsoever in their minds and hearts.”
Again: doubting, questioning, hurting friends and family be damned. Feeling left out in the cold and abandoned? Remember Jehovah loves you and it’s all for the best.
Don’t question their conviction even if you don’t understand or agree, “the most powerful force in the universe has given them this conviction!”
Yes, the lead in is mine, but what appears inside the quotation marks is actually taken word for word from the last sentence of paragraph 10.
The article goes on to reiterate how impossible it is to fully explain this personal calling to those who have not experienced it.
It even talks about how at first these ones cherished an earthly hope, and wanted that future, but the change comes because of operation of God’s spirit, which changes their thinking and hope.
There is so much more I could say about my feelings on the matter. But, yes, yes, yes! I have questioned my husband, and these are the kind of unsatisfying answers he gave me as well.
It all boiled down to some version of: when you know, you know. I’m sorry this hurts you. I’m sorry you can’t understand. I’m sorry you can’t come with me.
I kept saying to him in the beginning: if it is only an invitation, say no. Don’t accept it. If you feel like God is calling you away from me and that does make you sad and you do hurt for me, and you do love me more than life, say no. Say you don’t want it and you want to stay with me forever.
‘I’m sorry, my love, that isn’t how it works’, he said. ‘The invitation was extended. I am compelled to accept it.’
And, so we remain at an impasse. And I still cry every day about it. None of you know the rest of our story, but I am going to say this: there are parts of it that read like a romance novel and before this I knew, KNEW, I married a man who would move heaven and earth to be with me. Who would love me and care for me through anything. I knew he would never leave me and only death could sever our bond, but still not diminish the love we had for each other.
That is why all of this is so painful. And I just can’t wrap my mind around it, but nonetheless, I do have to deal with it and move on with my life.
Reply
Sarah says:
May 23, 2016 at 11:00 pm
My dear, you are in a terrible place. Writing about it may hurt but it’s bringing all the hurt to the surface. This is a way of grieving and very necessary.
However, if you love your husband, why leave him? It’s your decision of course and people here will support you whatever you do. Remind your husband that if an unbelieving wife is agreeable to living with her husband then he cannot leave her.
Maybe your husband is wrong. If you left him and then he discovered he is not going to heaven you might be devastated.
However you know all the circumstances and are in the best place to decide. Whatever that is be assured we will be thinking of you and trying to help if we can.
Reply
Bad Penny says:
May 25, 2016 at 2:44 am
Falling Angel –
I was a JW for 30 years and came out in 2013 when I discovered the truth about the ‘truth’.
Your husband, it seems, has delusions of grandeur. He is obviously a ‘spiritual’ man and has let the WT doctrine go deep into his heart and mind. He is under their spell. To convince him otherwise at this stage would be cruel. I suggest if you truly love him, and he still loves you, that you just go along with it for the sake of your marriage.
His belief, I’m afraid, will not come to fruition. From my intensive research I can assure you that his destiny will not be any different from yours. You ain’t going to lose him to heaven anytime soon. The reality is that you will probably grow old together and then die a normal death. Then you will be parted. It will not be by some miraculous event such as being ‘caught away to heaven in a rapture’ and leaving you bereft.
On a personal basis, I was very close to a sister many years ago. Our kids were friends and we used to spend happy times together having coffee while they played together. Her marriage (to a ‘brother’) was unhappy. He was abusive to her and pushed her downstairs on one occasion. Needless to say, she fell into the supportive arms of another man and was disfellowshipped. I cried when I first heard at the loss of a dear friend as I knew I could not now talk to her. After many years of living with this man and having never married him, she finally left him and took the steps of returning to Jehovah. She was re-instated. She has now become very spiritual… She is convinced that she has been anointed, having experienced something like an electric shock all through her body on a couple of occasions. Nothing will now deter her from her course. She has become wide eyed and holy!
When I first heard about this I immediately asked if she was menopausal! It seemed highly unlikely to me that this former friend was now in spiritual company with the likes of Moses and Abraham!
I did not however, reject her claim. If it made her happy, who am I to destroy that?
So, FA, don’t say anything at the moment. As your awakening continues you will find out all about JW.org, where it all started and who really pulls the strings. Your husband may be won over eventually …. now is not the right time to destroy his belief.
Hang in there. Read the old JW Survey articles. They will help you.
Reply
Holy Connoli says:
May 25, 2016 at 6:26 am
to Fallen75. I also knew of a brother who after many years claimed to be anointed, He to had lost his job and was financially destroyed. This is my observance and I reserve the right to be wrong. I believe a man needs to be productive in his life. As men we need to feel we are accomplishing something. In my case I know when I was not working or got laid off from my job I became very depressed after a short while. I kept hoping Armageddon would come to relieve my insecurities etc. This Brother and I have known others similar to him had to much time on his hands. He became depressed and started saying and doing strange things. Over time he became more and more elusive but always a nice person. Over a few years the next thing he did was partake at the age of around 50 years old which was like 13 years ago for him. His wife thinks he is mental and that he is just emotional and thinks to much of himself. I have known a woman who did the same thing, She had an unhappy marriage to an unbeliever and left him to live on her own. She also was a very strange and very independent for a JW woman. She would go out in FS on her own. Seldom meet with the group and you would see her around town walking the streets offering the WT to people all on her own. She did attend meetings but was almost living in a separate world from the Cong yet claimed to be anointed etc. I have kon many that did the same thing and one thing they all had in common was they wanted to be “martyrs” or were very separate from the typical JW. My point is I believe they all had some mental issues and perhaps your husband does also. What I am reading is very similar to what I have experienced.
I think the good people on here have given you some great Ideas and suggestions. If you leave him does that mean your life will be easier or better? In many cases no it does not.
Sometimes it is better to try to let things calm down and work things out at the present situation. In a short time things will probably settle down an you can see things better. It is not always a good Idea to make decisions when there is high emotion involved, I believe your husband feels like a failure at the moment bc he as no job, no personal fulfillment
and is looking at his life as failed. HE has a degree he is not using,having marital problems,in his life, Probably sitting home alone quite often, you are working and bringing the income, few JW’s contact him and so his mind is going in many directions. So by becoming anointed it solves all his problems. He is important, he is somebody, His degree now is no longer important, probably going thru a mid life crisis of Identity also, he will go to heaven and leave a challenging wife, God has called him, So if God CHOSE him al his problems are solved and ARMEGGEDDON is Immediate so he won’t have to deal with his problems anymore.
Reply
dee2 says:
May 25, 2016 at 8:20 am
Awesome analysis Holy Connoli!……….you sound like a psychologist 🙂
dee2 says:
May 26, 2016 at 6:26 am
Bad Penny,
“She has now become very spiritual… She is convinced that she has been anointed, having experienced something like an electric shock all through her body on a couple of occasions. Nothing will now deter her from her course. She has become wide eyed and holy!”
The “electric shock” is a mind-body interaction and response within the central nervous system which psychologists and others have observed takes place when persons engage in intense spiritual practices such as intense prayer, intense meditation, intense fasting etc. When persons engage in these intense spiritual practices they can enter a non-ordinary state or altered state of consciousness or mystical state in which their bodies release energies that move through the body like the one which you have described.
Persons may also experience altered perceptions that can be frightening, and “false enlightenment” associated with delightful or terrifying visions. Dissociation, depersonalization or derealization have also been observed.
In the Hindu tradition this energy release is known as a kundalini awakening.
Persons may become inflated and grandiose as a result of intense spiritual experiences as in the case of your friend who felt that she was now of “the anointed” class.
A related experience is the religious conversion experience which some persons have whereby they feel as though “something” moved through their body from the crown of their head to their feet or vice versa at the time of their conversion.
Winston Smith says:
May 26, 2016 at 10:22 am
Good points dee2. The fact that so-called mystical phenomena occur in many varied religious frameworks is significant. Some will say, “I am certain this is the truth because [insert reference to the supposed mystical experience here].
The fact that there are scientific/biological reasons for such phenomena explain why it transcends nearly all paths of religious perspective. If someone is a baptist and had something similar occur, then it would strengthen their faith in the baptist church and so forth.
WS
dee2 says:
May 26, 2016 at 12:04 pm
That’s a very important conclusion which you have drawn WS.
Indeed, both Christians (of various denominations) and non-Christians have these types of mystical/spiritual experiences with associated energy releases, which should therefore make one wonder if this is just simply a physiological/biological response given that the response is universal and is not unique to or confined to persons of just one denomination of a given religion, or should they read more into the experience.
dee2 says:
May 26, 2016 at 4:15 pm
WS,
BTW, I should also add that the energy release response also occurs for persons who are not part of a religion but who also engage in intensive meditative or spiritual practices. So it’s not just persons who are a part of a religion (Christian or non-Christian) who have these experiences.
dee2 says:
May 23, 2016 at 11:43 pm
Hi fallingangel75,
I can clearly see that you have your wits about you and that you are able to critically and objectively analyze what is going on with your husband.
I asked about your discussion regarding the 144,000 doctrine with your husband in order to get a sense of how you have been dealing with his change of hope issue and where his thinking is.
I am not a psychologist and would like to suggest that you see one who deals with transpersonal/spiritual/religious issues in order to get the best support and advice regarding how to deal with your husband’s situation. I wish, however, to make some unprofessional observations about your situation, based on my personal opinion.
Your assessment of your husband suggests that he is having a psychological problem:
“………when it seemed like my formerly loving and supportive husband was having a minor psychological breakdown………”
“……..maybe he should seek help to deal with the stress that was clearly causing a break with reality.”
“……..he is denying it all and becoming a living martyr.”
” I feel that it is the way of any self-fulfilling prophecy or major delusion.”
Psychologists have come to realize that persons have experiences which they term spiritual/religious/transpersonal experiences/mystical experiences with psychotic features, which may or may not be pathological. Psychologists have come to the realization that the overlap of spiritual/religious experiences and psychosis can lead to mood-congruent delusions, such as being controlled by the devil or punished by God. Or persons in the manic phases of bipolar disorder or schizoaffective disorder may believe that they are Jesus Christ or that God has called them and they have divine missions to fulfill. Some person’s biology predisposes them to schizoaffective disorder. This psychotic state can be induced/precipitated by stress or trauma or PTSD or depression. I note that you mentioned the following stresses which seem to have impacted your husband:
“In spite of the financial difficulties and strains”
“As a result my husband was unemployed for 2 years and is still not working in his field as an engineer. A career he chose and went to college for.”
“Even through losing our home and struggling financially.”
I would like to encourage you to seek counseling from a psychologist who deals with spiritual/religious/transpersonal problems/issues, who can help you to develop the best approach to deal with your husband’s situation.
Best wishes.
Reply
Outandabout says:
May 24, 2016 at 3:06 pm
Dee 2, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I’m willing to be wrong here, but I think fallenangel’s husband is showing signs of psychosis and although each person will have their own set of symptoms according to their circumstances, there are four main symtoms;- hallucinations, delusions, confused and disturbed thoughts and lack of insight and self awareness.
Fallenangel…..you need professional advice on this. Confront it head-on and go for the best advice available and then you’ll at least know what you’re up against. Don’t waste time with any alternative therapists who are more than likely to be a waste of time, or even make things worse.
Good luck.
Reply
Holy Connoli says:
May 25, 2016 at 11:01 am
To Dee. Thanks. Not a Psychologist but I have seen many “strange ones”become anointed when their lives went haywire. there was another couple who in the 80’s repaired televisions and radios for a living. They were in the San Fransisco Bay are at the time in a cong with me. The husband and wife both started partaking and they felt that the “MAFIA” was controlling the industry that they were in and wanted them out of the TV repair business! They all started partaking when their business went down and they thought the MAFIA was driving them out of business.
So they packed up everything and moved to Hawaii to start their TV repair business over there. I actually visited them in Hawaii when I was on vacation and they still thought the Mafia was after them. One very strange thing about them was that about every 6 months – a year they would move and change areas. I mean they would move hundreds of miles away each time and across the OCEAN! it wasn’t just across town. JW’s have a very high percentage of mental illness. No doubt due to the mental damage the WT does to people and the EXTREME GUILT they make people feel.Any Cult will do mental damage but the WT passes it on from one generation to the next and he last few years the WT is making more people feel guilty bc they are losing members at a rapid pace. If you take away the young kids getting baptized they are actually decreasing in numbers. It is a sad situation for JW’s these days. The rug is being pulled out from under them.
The point is that many of those professing to be of the anointed have had bad lives and incomplete lives and feel depressed and guilty and unfulfilled so they”become anointed” problem solved in their minds.
Reply
Gary says:
May 24, 2016 at 3:07 am
I absolutely agree, keep talking. We were once alone, isolated. . We can never allow that to happen again. As the say went ‘united we stood and divided we fall’, never again.
Thank you JWSurvey X
Reply
Gary says:
May 24, 2016 at 3:12 am
The days of ‘divide and conquer’ are over 🙂
Reply
Gary says:
May 24, 2016 at 3:36 am
How is it that the heart can rule the head and the head refuses to see?
Reply
ruthlee says:
May 24, 2016 at 3:38 am
Hi falling angel (uncomfortable about your name but still love you for your bravery) You have written much and your grief is great . I hope we can all help you in small ways. Like you I married my friend and I thought we would go through to next life together and forever. This awakening process has been very painful and I do not know if my marriage will survive. I never thought my marriage could break over a spiritual division to me the only thing probable was the usual suspects ie he or me falling for someone else. This is what makes this cultish religion so damaging . We cannot leave graciously or without their malice. There is not a single jehovahs witness who is still indoctrinated , who would let bygones be bygones they will insist on punishing you and making themselves righteous. For me I am grieved that my husband and I who were so close have to agree to disagree on the most basic fundamental beliefs that we once held in common and that I now want to avoid like the plague. Don’t get me wrong I read the Bible every day and my prayers go further than two foot off the ground. I’m trying not to say too much as there are strict rules for posting. Angel 75 you are at the tender stage of your awakening and it takes time to adjust but we hope we can support you in some small way. I think when our life experiences are published you will find very interesting thoughts to help meanwhile just keep researching and stay with us on this bumpy ride of a journey cheers Ruthlee
Reply
Gary says:
May 24, 2016 at 3:59 am
Interesting song ‘pigs’.
1st the government, 2nd Margret Thatcher, 3rd Mary Wihitehouse, such is censorship.
Reply
Gary says:
May 24, 2016 at 4:19 am
Four legs bad, two legs good.
Reply
Startrekangel says:
May 25, 2016 at 4:00 pm
While I can certainly think of a few areas where I could write, my plead to JWsurvey is different. There is a great need for articles of these qualities in the Spanish language. Remember! Latin America is where their growth is happening. We can not ignore this fact because there is where it will make the greatest difference. I will be happy to help translate articles that others write. Lets get the hispanic world up to speed on what is going on with the org.
Reply
Brother says:
May 25, 2016 at 6:09 pm
Hi all, I was born in the org. I have been visiting jw survey for a while but this my first comment. I have a legal background and I would be happy to write legal articles and about the issue of higher education.
Reply
ruthlee says:
May 26, 2016 at 1:57 am
we need YOU bro cheers Ruthlee
Reply
Tara says:
May 26, 2016 at 7:08 am
Welcome Brother 🙂 happy and elated to have you on board 🙂
Reply
Brother says:
May 25, 2016 at 6:32 pm
Sarah, can I have the full reference of the Surpreme Court case that you mentioned please?
Reply
Sarah says:
May 26, 2016 at 12:16 am
Go to http://www.courts.ie then when you have the home page up write in Moram in the search line and click on judgments and determinations. The legal case is named Ruth Moram v Watch Tower etc.
Let me know if you have trouble finding it. The courts made the wrong decision when they ruled that nothing was hidden from me but that is because WT hid their true agenda from the courts.
All the best
Reply
Freed Mason says:
May 26, 2016 at 5:06 am
Direct Link:
http://www.courts.ie/Judgments.nsf/0/A115B9ADA983AE8380257ED1003D1C4A
Reply
Sarah says:
May 26, 2016 at 10:53 am
Great, thanks. I’m useless with the technology.
Reply
Garrett says:
May 25, 2016 at 6:48 pm
I think it is fantastic that everyone is offering what talents they have.
If everyone chips in the work load is light .
If we all pull together as a team we can bring this organization down.
Just think of what skills you have as an individual… What are they?
How can you apply them or make them useful to destroy this cult.?
Best wishes to all!
Garrett
Reply
Minion says:
May 25, 2016 at 9:06 pm
Greetings to all:
“Support The World Wide Work” – JWsurvey rocks!
Peace out,
Reply
Brother says:
May 26, 2016 at 4:28 am
Sarah thanks for your response, however, I can’t find the case on http://www.courts.ie. When was the case decided? Have you considered taking your case to the European Court of Human Rights? Actually, I have other skills as well. I speak different languagues.
Reply
Sarah says:
May 26, 2016 at 10:56 am
Did Freed Mason’s post help? Otherwise I’ll find another way. Thanks. It’s paragraph 21 I think which is of interest.
thanks to JWSurvey for the use of the website.
Reply
Brother says:
May 26, 2016 at 4:47 am
That’s good to know sister ruthlee. Thanks
Reply
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The Friday Column: JW Survey needs YOU!
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Posted on May 20, 2016
12540717_1008463605843228_8931144894773544989_nWould you like to help make a difference?
We are looking to expand our voluntary writing team in order to keep pace with the increasing amount of Watchtower related news stories, and also to keep pace with our growing community of readers of both Witnesses and former Witnesses. We know from reading our comments section that many of you are skilled, eloquent and informed when discussing matters related to Watchtower. Your comments will already have helped many visitors to this site to evaluate their own beliefs, and given them the resolve to act on any changes they make to those beliefs.
You have already made a difference.
Would you like to make even more of a difference?
Would you like to write for JW Survey?
We are happy to consider articles for publication. Here are some suggestions for topics you might like to cover:
◾Life stories. How did you come to feel that the Watchtower’s teachings were not satisfying you? Do you have personal experiences from your time as a Witness that you feel might help others? Did you personally observe matters relating to current hot issues or historical events in the Watchtower world? Please let us know.
◾Articles that analyse and discuss a specific aspect of Watchtower history or doctrine. For example, are you a history buff who is able to lay out in a detailed but readable way the flaws behind Watchtower’s 607 BCE date for the fall of Jerusalem? Can you discuss medical inconsistencies in Watchtower’s blood transfusion and transplant policy? Do you understand the Mexico/Malawi scandal, or are you fully versed in the way that the New World Translation blurs the original Hebrew and Greek texts to falsely support Watchtower doctrine? We’d love to see an article from you.
◾News articles the report upon the latests developments in the world of Watchtower. Perhaps your have seen coverage of the Witnesses in the press that made your blood boil, or was spot on in its detail and tone? Perhaps there is a news event you are aware of that JW Survey has not yet had the time or ability to cover? Get writing!
◾Can you provide useful articles that may help those who have left the Watchtower, or who are considering leaving, to adapt and make the most of their new life? What strategies worked for you to re-start your career, re-enter education, make new friends, or free yourself from Watchtower indoctrination that you found to be harmful?
Please note that any submissions are on a voluntary basis. Much as we would love to pay for articles, the funds for this simply don’t exist, and all of our writers are currently working pro bono, myself included.
Here are some guidelines for any submitted articles:
◾Length of around 1500 words is preferred. A little less or more won’t hurt, but please contact us if your article might be significantly longer so that we can discuss possibly splitting it into smaller articles or reducing the article length.
◾Articles must not seek to evangelise. Our aim here at JW Survey is to give current and former Jehovah’s Witnesses the information they need to objectively and factually analyse their faith and come to an informed decision as to whether or not they want to leave. Our goal is not to promote a specific alternate faith, or a lack of one. We are happy to accept articles from writers of all faiths or none, but the goal of the article should be to encourage critical examination of The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, not to encourage conversation to another specific religious or secular viewpoint. (The two slight exceptions to this rule are if the subject under discussion cannot be discussed in a way that might not also impact wider religious beliefs, such as a discussion of Watchtower’s attitude towards evolution, or if a Friday Column writer is telling a life story that necessitates discussing how their changing religious or secular viewpoint enabled them to recognise shortcomings in Watchtower doctrine and practice. Editorial discretion will be exercised in such cases, and the editors decisions will be final.)
◾Cite your sources. As much as possible, please try and provide links and sources for any factual statements you make. You are discussing an online news article on the BBC? Please include a link to that report. You claim that Watchtower once banned the use of organ transplants for Witnesses? Please include the Watchtower reference. Backing up your claims with facts shows that your claims are true and that your arguments can be trusted, and will vastly increase the helpfulness of your article to those who read it.
◾Try to emulate the tone found in existing JW Survey articles. We do not seek to alienate those who might disagree with us, but rather to create a safe environment where a current or former Witness can consider the evidence and arguments and come to their own conclusions. Many of us have strong feelings about Watchtower and its leadership, and its perfectly fine to show a degree of emotion in an article, otherwise it might be quite dry and stale. Outright mockery or furious anger, however, will not be acceptable in an article. Ad Hominem is not a legitimate debating tactic. Calm, rational discussion and presentation of facts is the best way of convincing those who might otherwise disagree with you. Having said that, please do try to stamp your own unique voice on your articles; your own sense of humour and style is what will make your work stand out.
We cannot promise to use every article submitted to us, but we do promise to read every single submission you send. Please email your submission in MS Word format to contact@jwsurvey.org.
Please help us make a difference.
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119 Responses to The Friday Column: JW Survey needs YOU!
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Brother says:
May 26, 2016 at 3:14 pm
I just saw the link. Thanks Freed. Sarah, you have been through alot. I have been through a similar experience as well. I know how it feels.
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← The Friday Column: JW Survey needs YOU!
Update: JW Survey needs YOU!
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Posted on May 26, 2016
bigstock-handsome-journalist-writing-wi-43410031-600x402Last Friday, we put up an article opening the doors to submissions from you, our readers.
We have had a number of excellent submissions since then, covering a wide variety of topics. On behalf of the entire JW Survey team, I’d like to extend a huge thank you to everyone who has donated so far and remind our readers that the doors are still open for anyone who is thinking of submitting material.
If you’ve not heard back from us yet don’t worry, you will. We are reading and discussing every submission emailed to us and this takes time, but rest assured we will read everything and respond to everyone who took the time and energy to submit work.
In the meantime, we are happy to confirm that the upcoming Friday Column this week will indeed feature one of our new guest writers who has submitted a fantastic article. Be sure to check it out!
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35 Responses to Update: JW Survey needs YOU!
Nan Restivo says:
May 26, 2016 at 6:19 am
After a lot of thought, I decided to submit this. I was a Jehovah’s Witness for 42 years (from age 16 to 62), married one who was raised in it, and proceeded to raise 3 children in it. We were the classic, devoted family of Witnesses – many years of pioneering, moved several times to serve “where the need was greater”, husband an elder for over 30 years, son in Bethel for over 8 years, son and his wife moved to China for 5 years, etc. etc. But I am not writing to complain about the wasted years. I thought I would write about the “after years”, which are so difficult for many of us ex-JWs. They certainly have been for all of us. Poverty, shame, embarrassment, and many other emotions crowded in. (Before I became a JW, I was awarded a full scholarship to Carnegie-Mellon University in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Of course I turned it down, being a brand-new, but faithful, JW.) Unlike some of my former friends, we have come to peace with life. Those years would have passed anyway. There were some good things for me – finding my husband, who is still my best friend, is a big one. EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique) helped us immensely. You can let go of all those feelings and move on. Life is still full and wonderful. Although we occasionally talk about our experiences as JWs, we are not bogged down in it. I take every opportunity I can to discourage anyone from getting involved with the religion, but aside from that, I am just too busy living the happy life I have made. I understand and appreciate your website, but sometimes find myself just wanting to say “Oh, just get on with it! Let the religion implode, or whatever it’s going to do, and take off. Live your life.”
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Tara says:
May 26, 2016 at 7:05 am
As much as I say bravo NR for your ability to move on I also have to say, that for many, it’s never going to be an easy option. Perhaps it’s a bit like an amputee being able to move on in life and adapt to his/her disability but some days they will look at the place their lost limb was and still feel the residual pain.
For most part I just get on with life now but I am still constantly looking over my shoulder, leaving the house on a Saturday morning… just in case, dreading the notes left in the door. The only reason I fade is because I still have a minor grandchild who is being indoctrinated by my ex daughter in law and her family. If and when the day comes we can win a court battle to get custody or to at least have it in an order that she cannot be baptised until an adult, then I will consider disassociating myself.
The ties are still there also regarding my daughter who is also fading for much the same reasons. Her in laws are witnesses, her husband is not…. yesterday she dropped off her daughter with his grandparents, she was grilled about her lack of meeting attendance and not going out in the tract work. When I picked the baby up I too was subjected to the same grilling. She has vowed never to have them sit for her again.
These little experiences show that you can never ‘just get on with it’. Once you have been a JW there will always be a cord, however fine, that ties you to the cult. I am bitter right now, I hope that will diminish over time but until that cord can be totally cut I will never be truly free.
I do applaud you and those who make the escape to be totally free.
Reply
fallingangel75 says:
May 26, 2016 at 8:54 am
I definitely agree with you Tara, that it is not only your own personal level of involvement you must take in to account, but family ties and friendships and how much of an alternate support system you have before you leave or can create when you leave.
I feel like I could separate myself *just myself* today and move on with my life without regret if not for the fact that my entire social circle consists of witnesses.
I have good relationships with my coworkers. I get along well with everyone, but we’re not close. We don’t visit each other’s homes or go on vacations.
I can remember feeling guilty for going out to lunch or dinner with them. We did nothing wrong. No wild parties or drunkenness.
Just regular meals exactly the same as the ones I have with JWs. Baby showers and the like, but you know. We’re constantly told we’re not supposed to develop friendships with non-witnesses.
It will be difficult for me to leave my JW friends and try to replace them. At the same time, I’m a very outgoing person who makes friends easily. I always get invited to parties, and meals and vacations with neighbors and friends from work.
That’s been a life long struggle for me as I’ve tried to be a model witness and avoid ‘bad association’.
It won’t be hard cultivating and deepening the friendships I have with non-witnesses. The hard part will be letting go of the guilt about it, and knowing that I will have to give up and let go of the JW friends. Many of whom I have been close to for 20 or 30 years and who have been with me through every major life event.
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Tara says:
May 26, 2016 at 12:38 pm
Sadly I found out that nearly all my ‘friends’ were conditional friends. I still come home from work and hang out with the cats. I’ve made not witness friends but not enough to go out and have fun with them. I am very lonely. I have PTSD so find it hard being around people. Loosing my spiritual friends made me distrust most people because these were meant to be my family… ROFLMAO…
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M Saurus says:
May 26, 2016 at 12:50 pm
Tara – I know that is hard for you.
Maybe you could take a class, or join a club, volunteer with a non-profit and volunteer at some of their social fund raisers.
You won’t have best friends immediately but if you are open to it, you will attract some friendly people that you can socialize with.
Best to you.
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Grace says:
May 26, 2016 at 5:34 pm
Real friendships grow naturally, they take time & are few.
We’ve been conditioned to believe that those instant friendships for so long were a necessity for true happiness & that’s where we will find true loyalty. The problem was when the chips were down, those so-called friendships weren’t always there.
I knew that I had a couple of great friendships before I became a Witness. I slowly pushed them away when I became a Witness.
Before I became a Witness, I didn’t have “8 million friends or brothers & sisters”. I didn’t need that. I had a couple of close friends & we occasionally went out together with other friends. But my trust, my secrets & my fun was shared with my closest 2 friends.
The Society makes you believe that you have to have all of these 100’s of people in your life to be happy. After I left, I realised how much hogwash that was. Having a couple of good buddies in your life is all that you need & if you need to have fun, shallow association, go & find a club or volunteer group where you can have other friendships. People you don’t see enough to get annoyed with. People who don’t know your life enough to start judging your every move. People who are sharing a moment with you. To me that’s healthy.
Anyway, I just think that when you leave be patient with finding yourself & your new friendships. People in the “world” aren’t going lather you with instant love, they have nothing to prove. They’re just being themselves. Sooner or later someone will come along that will just like your company. That’s when you can start building your friendship.
Winston Smith says:
May 26, 2016 at 3:18 pm
@FA75
Here’s what helped me: before I fully faded, I developed two close non-JW friendships with workmates, another with a former RV I was able to confide in, and finally, I reconnected with a family member who had faded before me (and I had been shunning).
You definitely need a base of support before you can really start fading. You may also consider professional counseling or therapy, but you should look for someone who has had experience in dealing with patients who have been influenced by cults.
Once I had my support group in place, I was able to fade without any strong feeling of loss for the old relationships. It was still hard and there were (and sometimes still are) many uncomfortable situations that come up being a fader. But I can tell you that it gets easier. And now that I am more or less fully faded for almost 2 yrs (started the fading process in 2012), I can tell you that I have so much less stress in my life. When I was a JW, I had a lot of anger issues. Now I am calm and collected most of the time.
WS
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Grace says:
May 26, 2016 at 5:44 pm
Also, one of the things I made myself do was find a weekend workshop. I chose an art class & a silver jewellery making class. I thought being just a weekend thing, I wasn’t committed after that if I didn’t feel comfortable with other people. Well it was the best thing that I ever did & now I want to keep doing it.
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M Saurus says:
May 26, 2016 at 9:26 am
I guess some people view the fading and subsequent shunning differently than others.
Rather than feeling pain and sadness over the “friends” you let go, I feel anger towards them. You did not let them go. They let YOU go, simply because you do not believe the things they believe.
You have been “close” to them for 20-30 years and they have been with you for every life event? And when you say you don’t want to be a JW anymore they can dump you like yesterday’s trash? That should make you angry! Sad maybe at first, then ANGRY that THEY are treating you that way.
By wallowing in all the sadness and guilt (why are you guilty, again?) you are letting the org WIN. You are a better person than that.
I refuse to write a letter to “disassociate” myself. I haven’t been to a meeting in over three years so I consider myself no longer associated. By writing a letter (THEIR RULE) you are still following their guidelines.
You will make new and better (and more loyal) friends. Don’t mourn these people who have made the decision to shun you.
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Big B says:
May 26, 2016 at 12:19 pm
@ M Saurus
Ditto, very well put and relevant.
To all who use this site for therapy, as I do after over 50 years in servitude to this cult, I can verify that although hard sometimes I feel totally liberated which outweighs (for me) any “family or friends” lost due to their shunning.
The WTBTS is a controlling, pedophile protecting, family destroying, lying cult made up of LOSERS, who failed in this system to make something of their lives and wait for Armageddon to straighten up the playing field for another chance at earthly life. Baloney!
To everyone, ex-JW’s, disfellowshiped ones, those fading and disassociated I have suggestions as to get on with your life. Yes, there is a life after JW’s.
1. Find something you enjoy or would like to learn and do it!
For example: Where I live Community Colleges offer free classes to those at least 60 years of age. You audit the class (no grade) with no papers, homework or attendance requirements. All the free education/instruction you want for free. What a deal! 🙂
2. Make new friends at those classes as they share the same interests as you (why not, it’s a natural fit).
3. Celebrate holidays, birthdays, etc. with your new friends! You need not worry about JW guidelines as they don’t apply to you anymore. I have celebrated all Holidays (including X-mas, Halloween, etc.) and enjoyed all of them immensely!
4. Keep busy don’t mope around. If time permits, get active in the community or volunteer for worthwhile causes.
For example: I registered to vote. Those who complain about their government and then don’t express their displeasure at the ballot box, shouldn’t gripe. You want change? VOTE! Waiting for Christ’s return will not bring about any change before you die a disappointed, discouraged, disillusioned death, like most JW’s.
5. Don’t give any JW a cause for thinking you’re miserable. Put on a Happy Face and mean it! 🙂 If they should ask you “how are things?” always answer in a positive way, “couldn’t be better, I’m great!” After all, you are the free one they, on the other hand, are still in servitude to their life sucking, non-paying, time bandit cult!
Again, I do not treat anyone’s life experiences leaving this cult lightly, it hurts. That’s what cults do, make it nearly impossible to leave unscathed. However, if you value your God given Christian freedom to make your own choices, then maybe some of my suggestions may help you as they have helped me.
Good Luck
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M Saurus says:
May 26, 2016 at 12:53 pm
Well said, Big B !
Reply
Winston Smith says:
May 26, 2016 at 3:31 pm
Good points Big B. I just registered to vote earlier this year. I attended my first company Christmas party back in 2012 – and I didn’t burst into flames. I can’t celebrate at home because my wife is still in, but outside the home, I can do anything I please. It’s so liberating being free of the Watchtower shackles! The best part is waking up on Sunday morning and realizing that you don’t have to go anywhere; the day is yours.
WS
Reply
Winston Smith says:
May 26, 2016 at 3:25 pm
I agree with you M Saurus, except on one point: I am not angry about the lost JW relationships. I am simply indifferent. If they think I am not good enough them then it’s their loss. I don’t need fair-weather friends or to waste a single moment on them either missing them or in anger. If putting me down makes them feel better about themselves and their sorry situation, so be it. Doesn’t effect me one way or the other.
WS
Reply
Arvjdy says:
May 26, 2016 at 10:28 am
Thank you for this site. It reminds me that I’m not alone. I lost all my family except my wife in the organization. Thank you to all who contributed their experiences.
Reply
Sarah says:
May 26, 2016 at 11:03 am
Thanks too from me. This site works well, so I appreciate the good technological skill involved.
Reply
ScotWm says:
May 26, 2016 at 10:41 am
Perhaps the Watchtower policy of shunning should be reexamined. My writing skills are not the greatest, but if this topic is of interest to anyone, I would be willing to try.
The Friday afternoon session of the REMAIN LOYAL TO JEHOVAH! 2016 Convention of Jehovah’s Witnesses features a symposium entitled “Shun Unrepentant Wrongdoers” which, oddly enough, is followed by another talk entitled “Be Forgiving.” I have recently started to think that some shunning may be needed in order to protect myself and others.
Just when I thought that I had come to terms with the Watchtower’s unscriptural shunning policies, I came across a troubling YouTube video. The video features an “apostate” who lights up a cigarette and continues to smoke as he complains about how Witnesses shunned him after he disassociated himself from the Watchtower organization.
A dictionary definition of shunning says that it is “to avoid deliberately and especially habitually.” Shunning may not be scriptural, but I would definitely want to deliberately and habitually avoid contact with someone who has so little respect for me that he would expect me to breathe deadly second hand smoke whenever I am around him.
It is obvious that not everyone views smoking as a bad habit. The illustration for “Update: JW Survey needs YOU!” shows a man smoking a pipe as he types out what are probably denunciations of false Watchtower doctrines. But what about shunning known pedophiles, for example? Would that be justified?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yI910M9Q-xo
Reply
Sarah says:
May 26, 2016 at 11:09 am
I really liked the illustration although don’t like smoking. It’s obviously a tongue-in-cheek picture of a journalist/writer. Quite appropriate.
Writing a letter to leave the organization protected me from harassment from some very unchristian people, so their shunning policy worked to my benefit. Not everyone will have the same circs.
My aim is to prevent harm to others so I continue to work to publicise the unlawful aspects of WT so as to prevent young ones from being pushed into suicide.
Reply
ScotWm says:
May 26, 2016 at 12:17 pm
Sarah says: “I really liked the illustration although don’t like smoking.”
Yes, but now I’m having second thoughts about smoking. I may have been too judgmental on the subject because some people like having cigarette smoke blown in their faces. This Chesterfield ad proves my point:
http://tinyurl.com/zghs2f3
Reply
dee2 says:
May 26, 2016 at 11:19 am
ScotWm,
Maybe the guy in the picture is smoking medical marijuana……… lol.
Reply
ScotWm says:
May 26, 2016 at 11:55 am
dee2 says: “Maybe the guy in the picture is smoking medical marijuana………”
Yeah, complete with a filter. Sipping Bud Light while smoking a cigarette really enhances his presentation.
Reply
dee2 says:
May 26, 2016 at 12:12 pm
?????? I’m referring to the picture in the above JWsurvey article, which doesn’t have any of the other things which you mentioned.
Reply
ScotWm says:
May 26, 2016 at 12:20 pm
Sorry, I thought you were referring to the video link I supplied in my original post. After all, you did say “picture” not “video.”
Eyes opened says:
May 26, 2016 at 12:29 pm
@ScotWm
The decision to shun or not should be our own as we choose the right associates for ourselves. There are people we are naturally drawn to and others we avoid for our own reasons. The problem is when others think they have the right to make those choices for us. I am on the hot seat for associating with an individual who no longer agrees with everything the wbts teaches. This person has completely faded. Yet this person is kind, generous, hospitable and displays Christ like qualities out of a good heart. This person’s gifts of mercy are genuine. Am I going to shun this person because there are those in the org who think I should??? Not a chance.
Kind of a sensitive subject, sorry.
Regards
Reply
ScotWm says:
May 26, 2016 at 1:10 pm
Eyes opened says: “The decision to shun or not should be our own as we choose the right associates for ourselves.”
That’s really what its all about. Being required to shun someone who speaks out against false Watchtower doctrines shouldn’t be mandated by cult leaders.
When Witnesses speak out against false Watchtower doctrines, they are called apostates. When Watchtower leaders change an old false teaching (often into a new false teaching) the process is called an “adjustment” to our understanding.
Adjustment of old truths, such as “millions now living will never die” and “the earthly resurrection of ancient worthies would occur in 1925” have been made by the Governing Body. The false teaching that “those who saw the events of 1914 will by no means pass away before the Great Tribulation” has now been replaced by the false overlapping generation teaching.
So who are the real apostates? Are they the spirit anointed Watchtower leaders who made the original false prophesies? Or are they the spirit anointed Watchtower leaders who exposed the original false doctrines and adjusted their understanding of these matters?
Reply
Holy Connoli says:
May 26, 2016 at 10:51 am
To Nan Restivo: You domake a good point. However not everyone can “MOVE ON” like you have. You are fortunate you and your husband are still together and love each other. In many JW cases when one partner awakens the other will not and will leave or use that as an excuse to divorce or separate and do economic harm and other things to the AWAKENED SPOUSE. In my case my wife is fanatic JW even worse than a “NORAML” JW. Everything in her life is WT. You cannot have a normal disxcussionw her on religion or errors of the WT or anything they do bc they are infallible to her. It creates tension for the entire family and she has moved out basically abandoning the family and she pioneers and lives in one of the family rental homes.it has caused great havoc to me and the adult children . Only 1 of the kids is still a JW and even that child think she is off the wall. My point is yu are fortunate for your situation but yours is unusual. I to, have made many friends outside the WT world and good ones also. I have another life that is not effected by the JW however the way they have hurt so many does not go away easily for most people.
Reply
rob says:
May 26, 2016 at 10:55 am
I too have moved on and feel no anger or resentment with respect to the time that I was a witness, but anyone who has family and former close friends who are still witnesses will never ever be free of the loose chains that still force us to look over our shoulder or that make us guarded in any communications or dealings with those who are still witnesses.
I really care for my family who are still witnesses and I enjoy their company and want to continue to spend time with them, but it is painful to not be able to speak freely and openly about religion and spirituality or other topics or to tell them how I feel about politics and how much i enjoy the holidays and how I view the witness religion or religion in general. I have learned to keep the conversations generic and so we talk about the weather and other bland topics.
It makes me sad to know that a religion has the power to trump family ties and strong friendships. It makes me sad to see that a religion can keep its far reaching tentacles on a person and the power it has to make people believe that it is more important than the love and affection of family.
Reply
fallingangel75 says:
May 26, 2016 at 4:45 pm
I haven’t moved on yet because I have just begun to fade (about 4 months) and absolutely all of my JW friends are still in the mode of trying to save me from myself and help me see the error of my ways.
They want me to return to Jehovah before I have gone too far afield. So, currently they are going out of their way to encourage and include me.
I know this will not last, but I cannot be angry with them for it. I cannot resent them or consider them losers.
They are not discarding me like yesterday’s garbage and they are not fair-weather friends. They are making extraordinary efforts to make sure I don’t lose out. I cannot be angry with them because I know that they think they are helping me.
And even once they do shun me, they will be thinking it’s for my own good.
And I know how much it pained and saddened me to know that friends had left the organization and according to my beliefs were no longer on the path to life.
I was not looking down on them. I was sad for them. I thought they were going to leave the safety of the organization and die! I thought they were going to ruin their lives now and forever.
I was genuinely concerned for their well-being. I can’t speak for everyone, but I know my friends care about me and believe they will be doing the right thing to help me and to remain loyal to Jehovah themselves.
I continue to be resentful about the institutional flaws and those at the top who are making and reinforcing the harmful policies, but I feel only sorrow for the individuals I know who are blindly following and being misled.
Reply
Sharon Christensen says:
May 26, 2016 at 11:25 am
Appreciate all the info here, soo much emotion etc. But voicing ones feelings and so on in a place like this, helps one deal with and file etc….to heal hurts and better cope…not an easy thing usually…there is lose of family, friends …one feels truly alone, at times. I always felt that Jehovah knows all, no matter how imperfect men treat a person…we have our reasons for how and why and what we do. Yet, being able to express ones thoughts and such, talk with people of similar experiences on Jw survey is an excellent way to come to peace to a certain extent …each one is travelling their own path, we are all unique individuals. Here we can have a voice…in the Jw.org…we have to do as we are told or we are marked, dfed and shunned. Funny how…the Jw.org solution to anything… Study lots..pray more, go in service more…Portray to the world…Jehovah’s “happy people”,meanwhile they are anything but …gossip, wine and antidepressants etc. help most cope and bury true feelings…and fit in to the norm life of being a JW…The govning body is not concerned with quality…just quantity…the ones who are staying are either controllers themselves and not worried about truth and justice…or what Jehovah and Jesus would want a person to do or how to treat a people. How many can say…the Elders were…a “craig” in a windstorm, in their case? Few and far between. After a life time of seeing and experienceing the heartless, cold reactions of many elders in many congs….I would sooner deal with the strong biting winds and pelting rain in the wilds, come out feeling stronger, empowered and refreshed than after a meeting with Jw.org directed elders…when done just feels like death is only way to relief. Been there done that…no more will they have control…everyone must heal, act and deal in their own way and time…but Never give up on life…Do Not allow Jw.org and their controlling ways take away happiness…beware of..”.The wolves in sheeps clothing!”… And for sure if you have money and material possessions, land etc., and are up in age….They will want more than just your hide!. Good day to all, keep your “whites”… wits about you cuz since end is near/here wolves get even more…snarly…grrr:))!
Reply
Paranoid Android says:
May 26, 2016 at 11:26 am
Cognitive Dissonance in action:
Just thought I’d share this quick.
Today, for the first time in literally years, I was called on by two JW’s.
Older ladies. Pleasant enough.
I guided the discussion towards the child abuse scandal in the Catholic Church, having watched the brilliant movie ‘Spotlight’ just the night before.
When the two JW’s expressed their outrage at the harm caused to so many, and the hypocrisy of the Catholic Church in it’s approach to the matter, I asked if they were aware that their own Religion was under scrutiny for the same problem.
They denied there was a problem, and went as far as saying that the JW organisation immediately reports matters of Child Abuse to the Police – and when I pressed further,
they insisted that the ‘Two witness’ rule did not apply to crime in the congregations.
One of the ladies actually said that if this was not the case, she would refuse to be one of Jehovahs Witnesses.
I asked them if they knew about the Australian Royal Commission enquiry into the matter and they said no.
One of the ladies said that any suggestions or criticism online regarding child abuse was ‘Just slander’.
I accepted a tract from them on the basis that they would allow me to show them that the ARC Enquiry was a huge legal affair, and not a piece of Tabloid sensationalism.
They agreed, and I brought up the first article that the internet provided on the ARC case.
Among the first few lines was;
“Since 1950 the church has received 1,066 allegations against its members and did not report any of them to police.”
I continued to read the article to them.
I finished and looked up at them.
They stared at me with empty eyes and one of them said…
‘We are not a church’.
Reply
Big B says:
May 26, 2016 at 12:45 pm
There are none so blind as those that REFUSE to see!
Poor disillusioned morons. Because they didn’t read it in their Kingdom Ministry or Watchtower journal then it must be a slanderous, apostate, Satanic inspired lie.
How pathetic for them and others just like them. They’re just a bunch of Watchtower apologist and ignorant, uneducated sheeple, being led on toward their own demise.
Truly Sad 🙁
Reply
Tara says:
May 26, 2016 at 12:49 pm
Well done you! I have gone over this scenario in my head dozens of times and think this is an awesome approach. after all, they will love the Catholic bashing but watch that turn to dismay as you show them, esp the ARC footage. Saying that, I actually had one sister say to me that it was fake and they were actors out to slander the witnesses. Yeesh.
Reply
Big B says:
May 26, 2016 at 1:39 pm
@ Tara;
Even with footage of Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson? Was he an actor as well, like an Elvis impersonator?
This truly is a new level of stupidity and absurdity!
LMAO! 🙂
Reply
Sharon Christensen says:
May 26, 2016 at 11:40 am
Awesome that you took the opp. to…”give a witness” as to the goings on of Jw.org, that most Wts are in the dark about…or refusing to believe cuz directed by the upper crustys to act as if….uh duh…deny deny…GOOD WORK!!! Plant the seed…watch it …grow and crawl!!!! :))). Getting “itchy”, at just the thought!
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Garrett says:
May 26, 2016 at 12:41 pm
Thank you Covert, John, Lloyd and crew. You are our captains. Lead us to victory .
Reply
Winston Smith says:
May 26, 2016 at 5:10 pm
I appreciate the hard work the JW Survey team does too, but I follow no man. Perhaps you only meant your comment in jest, Garrett, but blindly following men is one of ultimate problems with the entire JW movement. I am no longer a servant of men, although I do consider myself a servant of humanity. There’s a key difference there.
WS
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New videos are constantly being uploaded to the John Cedars YouTube channel.
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20 Responses to Videos
KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:
August 25, 2013 at 6:55 pm
With every word they reveal and “impart” far more than they ever intended…
Reply
george says:
August 27, 2013 at 4:45 am
Sorry Cedars, I can only access the first video on my I pad. There are a lot of over sized play icons and they won’t work.
Reply
Luke says:
October 27, 2013 at 5:27 pm
Continue the good work on this site that expose what Watchtower Organization really are — a fanatic end-time driven cult that only serve interests of its leaders. I left this
cult three years ago for good. My only regret is that I had not left the Watchtower Cult earlier! On Easter Sunday this year, I was baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and received into Eastern Orthodox Church, apostolic Church that preserved the Faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
Cedar, you have my blessings of your work on this site that
will yet help millions of JWs to see the truth of so-called ‘Truth’.
Reply
Fred says:
November 2, 2013 at 12:09 pm
Forget taking your numbers from a 1974 yearbook if you question the amount of those killed, interned, etc get the numbers from the Holocaust museum. You forgot to mention the ‘JEWS’ were and its quoted several times in the Watchtower publications as it is related in the bible, “ONCE GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE” but they did not remain that because of their actions. Your quotes from WT publications are based on the latter that they fell out of favour in God’s eyes. They therefor were NOT written in an anti-Semitic nature. Many Jews have become JW’s over the years are they lesser beings because they were of Jewish blood?…ABSOLUTELY NOT! All races are equal so this video in my opinion is twisted in its presentation. Not to mention the ridiculous claim of Rutherford’s so called love letter to Adolf Hitler. No blinders on here, I have checked the facts. Sorry but this video paints an untruthful twist of events and statements about the WT as regards the comments on the Nazi’s and Jews.
Reply
Palma says:
February 28, 2014 at 3:48 am
Hi everybody! Hi cedars!
I found this article about a discovery in egypt that brings light to the origin of story of joseph in the bible.
What do you think?http://www.davidovits.info/the-lost-fresco-and-the-bible-my-new-book-in-french/
Reply
Idris says:
March 27, 2014 at 8:12 am
Thank you for this page, it has been a great help to me, as I seek the truth of the word of God, however I noticed in the video ‘Does the Bible speak of ‘Paradise Earth’ the speaker quotes Luke 21v43 twice, regarding Jesus word on the cross, there should be a correction note as the verse he mentions is in Luke 23 v 43.
Keep up the good work
Reply
Julia Orwell says:
July 17, 2014 at 3:47 am
Been to internationals before and this elaborate souvenir thing is entirely new. The last one I went to in 2009, the last ones they had, had nothing like this so it’s not a matter of you having not noticed it in the past, it’s a matter of it being a new phenomenon.
I theorize that the wt motives for this involve keeping the masses busy and therefore obedient. Jws would volunteer to do this because there are no other legitimate outlets for creative expression. Armageddon being near has nothing to do with it: it’s about keeping the sheeple busy and happy. Making stupid trinkets is also a team building activity as it involves jws working together, thus reinforcing the herd mentality jws have.
Reply
frankie fernandez says:
February 27, 2015 at 4:44 pm
dear friends I was baptized in 1974. Thank God I am no longer a member of the WT. Free at last and oh what a relief it is. A member of my former congregation who I considerd my best friend molested a minor. There was a big argument amognst the elders on the judicial committee. One elder who was a maverick, wanted to notify the police. But, instead they followed the instuctions of the society. They kept this crime against the child, hush hush. So as not to tarnish the name of Jehovah. But in reality it was a coverup to protect the wt’s reputation. Meanwhile this poor child that was raped has to carry the heavy burden of a victim for the rest of thier lives without compensation and without justice. While the abuser has remaind a member in good standing. The congregation he is attending now has not been notified that he is a sexual preditor.
Reply
Holy Connoli says:
November 17, 2015 at 1:14 am
Frankie.If I were you I would turn him into the police now even though it may have been several years ago he committed this crime. Many sexual predators get turned in years later after the crime is reveled. At the very least he will be investigated and his Name will be mud for being a creep.
He deserves it and so does the WT for its NON protection of the flock and not caring for the victim but only their phony reputation.
Reply
Lesley HUmphreys-Jones says:
February 15, 2016 at 10:10 am
Tell the police.
Reply
Kirtley W. Burggraf says:
March 11, 2015 at 11:16 am
Tell me, since governing body members are elected (replacing someone who dies) at what point do do they become “divinely inspired” or “spirit guided”? Were they always thus in the lower ranks or does this just “happen” the moment that they are appointed? What’s Watchtower’s take on this?
Reply
Alone in MD says:
March 31, 2015 at 6:00 pm
Regards your video on the Memorial Service. I am one of those “non believers” married to a baptized witness. I go to just keep the peace but I’ve made it known that I consider this service one of the worst religious ceremonies that I have ever been to. “Anointed What”. Also it was announced at last years meeting that “this may be the last memorial service”. They are at it again. Thanks for the great videos.
Reply
frankie fernandez says:
May 10, 2015 at 9:50 pm
IF CHRIST WAS ENTHRONGED IN 1914, WHY ARE THE WITNESES STILL CELEBRATING THE MEMORIAL? CHRIST SAID THAT AFTER HIS ARRIVAL NO ONE WAS TO CELEBRATE THE MEMORIAL .ALSO HE SAID THAT THE DAY OF HIS PRESENSE, IT WILL BE LIKE LIGHTNING FROM ONE POINT OF THE EARTH TO ANOTHER. LIGHTNING TRAVELS AT THE SPEED OF 3500 MILES PER SECOUND. SO IT WILL TRAVEL AROUND THE GLOBE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE. HE ALSO SAID THAT ALL EYES WILL SEE HIM. NOT LIKE THE WTS THAT SAYS WE ARE IN HIS INVISIBLE PRESENSE.
Reply
pj wilcox says:
July 31, 2015 at 3:21 am
I watched the latest video of the inept elder being questioned by the commission. Who prepared this man for testimony? You all are aware of the dentist who shot Cecil the lion in Kenya? Well his life is over. He is in hiding. What he did ,did not break laws in Kenya and his is in a world of trouble with public sentiment. But this elder being questioned is far worse. He covered deeds that drove people to think of killing themselves. Should he not go into hiding? Is his life over? Has he know conscience? Emotion, caring? You know the answer. Bet ya, damage control is working overtime on this.
Reply
Adrian says:
September 8, 2015 at 3:32 am
I think the Royal Commission videos demonstrate that fragility of the governance within the WT society. Yes, it’s an Australia branch issue but cross examination only points to the seat of control on which the governing body members sit. Everything starts and stops with the governing body, they set the policy but where are they? Sitting comfortably in NY watching from a distance ready to abdicate any responsibility whatsoever. A governing body governs and leads but I see no leadership I see the followers talking and being bashed around the head with questions, all too easy for the legal team.
However, it might just be me but does anyone else not see the lawyer’s gap in knowledge regarding the fundamental rationale for the WT society policies, they fall back in their comfort zone knowing that they can say ‘well we don’t have the authority to go beyond the bible.’
It’s this gap in knowledge of the legal representatives which the WT society exploit. I mean nobody is going to ask ‘ where actually did this translation come from anyway?’ What were the academic qualifications of the translators? Is there a possibility that you have interpreted things wrongly or even worse, translated things incorrectly? If there’s a possibility that your interpretation on how to deal with modern day child abuse cases in congregations may be flawed, then are you in agreement that your policies could result in lasting harm to victims of abuse? In my view that translation is the ‘elephant in the room’ every scholar knows it’s perverse but no one is holding this cult to account. So easy to say it’s all in the bible but should they really be saying it’s all in the NWT instead?
The WT society in the videos almost give of an innocence as if to say, ‘ but that’s what we understand from the scriptures’, and I think it works in their favor, but a savvy legal representative would do well to tease out the basis for the rendering of certain verses on which doctrine, policy and organisational decisions are based. So far the WT Society appears to be one step ahead because their authority is not a person but a book, which they are ‘only trying to understand and live by’. Expose the origin of the NWT and the basis for so many ridiculous uncaring decisions is called into question.
Reply
Rick Viger says:
November 10, 2015 at 3:26 pm
Thanks John for all you do with your videos.
I’m an ex JW for 40 years now. I hope your videos reach some witnesses and make them think. For all of you that have left Watchtower remember you made the right decision.
Reply
S.T. says:
November 24, 2015 at 9:48 pm
I was wondering if anyone has heard that Jehovah’s witnesses are telling there congregations that the end of this system could have only hours left? My sister who is a Jehovah’s Witness said they are preaching this at the congregations. Has anyone else heard this?
Reply
Paul says:
April 3, 2016 at 10:24 pm
Indoctrination and mind control in its purest form. Will the BS never end, and is hard for me to understand why JW’S put up with this.
Reply
ian York says:
April 13, 2016 at 4:15 pm
It is hard to fathom how anybody could believe in the legitimacy of Watchtower’s claim to be God’s only organization on earth today when considering it started with the likes if this oaf. One would have to have a belief in predestination, an unscriptural concept, in order to square the circle of the now regarded apostate beliefs if the founder members and today’s dogma.
Reply
Abby says:
May 10, 2016 at 2:51 am
After pioneering for over a decade, I wondered where the GB got the 70 hours requirement. Did Jesus or the 12 Apostles count time? Honestly, I feel enslaved. Hmmm. I grateful to Yahowah for helping me discover this site. The stress is too burdensome for me. OMG We have been taught in the watchtower that when we revenge, we are being presumptuous is DF not presumptuousness? Let’s look at it this way. When you commit a grievous sin, who do you offend, God or elders? Is shunning not a way of doing Yahowah’s work for him. I just learnt that JW’s don’t bury dfd people. This is heart breaking. I call this rennaissance period for any one who wishes to wake up. Jephtah’s case is an eye opener, I had to confirm that from my book of bible stories, story 53. Hmmmm.
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Leslie Jones Was a Telemarketer for Scientology - it was easy, all she did was act crazy! #scientology http://usm.ag/1Wjmg73 via @UsWeekly
Photo published for Leslie Jones Reveals She Was a Telemarketer for Scientology
Leslie Jones Reveals She Was a Telemarketer for Scientology
Leslie Jones revealed she was once a telemarketer for Scientology before her big break on ‘SNL’ — see what she said!
usmagazine.com
25 May
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
8,000+ subscribers. Simply bonkers! No rest for the wicked though - today I need to film for JWB20.
18h
Lloyd Evans Retweeted
Covert Fade @CovertFade
Any EXJW's attending the @reasonrally this year? If so, would you be interested meeting and chatting with @imtishams of Faith To Faithless?
24 May
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Preparing my notes for the JWB20 (Tony Morris) rebuttal. At first glance there isn't much in there, but actually, there is.
24 May
Lloyd Evans Retweeted
Covert Fade @CovertFade
This. So much this. Bans make it harder to get cult members out. They solve nothing. https://twitter.com/cedarsjwsurvey/status/733940404656168960 …
21 May
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Precisely! "Ooh goodie, I'm being persecuted!" (Breaks into rendition of Chesney Hawkes song...) https://twitter.com/ApostateAwake/status/733941075145052160 …
21 May
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
You don't fight cults by banning them. You fight them with ridicule, reason, and withdrawal of financial incentives. https://twitter.com/fightcults/status/733775072931028997 …
21 May
Lloyd Evans Retweeted
ApostateChick @ApostateChick
"You'd better love me, or I will kill you." --God
Seems reasonable. 🤔
20 May
Lloyd Evans Retweeted
Covert Fade @CovertFade
The Friday Column: JW Survey needs YOU! http://jwsurvey.org/news/the-friday-column-jw-survey-needs-you … via @cedarsjwsurvey
Photo published for The Friday Column: JW Survey needs YOU!
The Friday Column: JW Survey needs YOU!
Would you like to help make a difference? We are looking to expand our writing team in order to keep pace with the increasing amount of Watchtower related news stories, and also to keep pace with o…
jwsurvey.org
20 May
Lloyd Evans Retweeted
The Thinking Atheist @ThinkingAtheist
View image on Twitter
View image on Twitter
19 May
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Thanks for the encouragement @avoidjw :) https://twitter.com/avoidjw/status/733348618955063296 …
19 May
Lloyd Evans Retweeted
JWR @JWRecovery
Dutch reporter thrown out of Jehovah's Witness convention for asking questions about homosexuality http://www.rawstory.com/2016/05/watch-jehovahs-witnesses-convention-boots-reporter-for-asking-simple-questions-about-homosexuality/ … #jworg #jw
18 May
Lloyd Evans Retweeted
Raw Story @RawStory
WATCH: Jehovah’s Witnesses convention boots reporter for asking about homosexuality http://ow.ly/izLa300imdz
View image on Twitter
View image on Twitter
17 May
Lloyd Evans Retweeted
PatheosAtheist @PatheosAtheist .@hemantmehta: Dutch Reporter Kicked Out of Jehovah’s Witnesses Convention After Asking About Homosexuality http://ow.ly/AlFF500nbBl
17 May
Lloyd Evans Retweeted
Hemant Mehta @hemantmehta
Dutch Reporter Kicked Out of Jehovah’s Witnesses Convention After Asking About Homosexuality http://bit.ly/1OBHFFO
17 May
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
Film crew visits #jehovahswitness convention asking about homosexuality. Hilarity ensues. https://youtu.be/9Xc8vNfy46o via @YouTube
YouTube @YouTube
17 May
Lloyd Evans @cedarsjwsurvey
What happens if you ask the wrong questions at a #jehovahswitness convention? #homophobia https://youtu.be/9Xc8vNfy46o via @YouTube
YouTube @YouTube
17 May
Lloyd Evans Retweeted
PatheosAtheist @PatheosAtheist .@hemantmehta: An Ex-Muslim and Ex-Jehovah’s Witness Discuss Their Journeys Out of Faith http://ow.ly/SvCp500fADZ
13 May
Lloyd Evans Retweeted
PatheosAtheist @PatheosAtheist .@hemantmehta: This Edited Version of the Jehovah’s Witnesses Anti-Gay Video Is So Much Better Than the Origina... http://ow.ly/uvMX500gI1j
14 May
Lloyd Evans Retweeted
The Freethinker Mag @FreethinkerMag
New post: Ex-Jehovah’s Witness ‘fixes’ the cult’s vile anti-gay video http://freethinker.co.uk/2016/05/13/ex-jehovahs-witness-fixes-the-cults-vile-anti-gay-video/ …
13 May
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Update: JW Survey needs YOU!
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Posted on May 26, 2016
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Last Friday, we put up an article opening the doors to submissions from you, our readers. We have had a number of excellent submissions since then, covering a wide variety of topics. On behalf of the entire JW Survey team, … Continue reading →
36 Comments
The Friday Column: JW Survey needs YOU!
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Posted on May 20, 2016
12540717_1008463605843228_8931144894773544989_n
Would you like to help make a difference? We are looking to expand our voluntary writing team in order to keep pace with the increasing amount of Watchtower related news stories, and also to keep pace with our growing community … Continue reading →
119 Comments
Update: JWsurvey editorial team meets in London to discuss future plans
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Posted on May 19, 2016
Screen Shot 2016-05-19 at 18.54.01
Earlier this month I had an opportunity to finally meet Covert Fade and John Redwood in person during a trip to London. Shortly after shaking hands for the first time, John surprised me with my very own Telly Award in … Continue reading →
27 Comments
News Bulletin: Dutch reporter thrown out of District Convention
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Posted on May 19, 2016
Screenshot 2016-05-19 10.33.11
Astonishing footage has recently emerged showing a Dutch reporter being thrown out of a convention of Jehovah’s Witnesses simply for asking basic questions about the Witnesses stance on homosexuality. You can view the video below, with English subtitles and an … Continue reading →
46 Comments
The Friday Column: Why I don’t want to destroy Watchtower
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Posted on May 13, 2016
Kcj48ABcq
I don’t want to bring down the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. That might have a couple of you blinking in suprise. If you are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses reading this, you may have been told that so called “apostates” … Continue reading →
171 Comments
The Friday Column: Leave no man behind
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Posted on May 6, 2016
tumblr_static_bobposter1
I had brothers when I was a Jehovah’s Witness. They were not related to me. We shared no blood. Neither did I use this term in the arbitrary “spiritual” sense, granting brotherhood simply because someone shared my religious beliefs irrespective … Continue reading →
114 Comments
Why Watchtower should be ashamed of its new homophobic child propaganda cartoon
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Posted on May 3, 2016
In the new cartoon, Sophia's mum teaches her how to be judgmental and bigoted
It was in the summer 2012 that Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world were first introduced to Caleb and Sophia, the Governing Body’s new animated poster kids. Their first cartoon adventures, which were distributed in DVDs at conventions and on the organization’s … Continue reading →
325 Comments
News Bulletin: Secret Watchtower documents once again demanded in new US court case.
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Posted on April 25, 2016
campos-pedophile
Only last week, we reported upon the latest development in the lawsuit that abuse survivor Jose Lopez is bringing against the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Lopez was abused by Jehovah’s Witness Elder Gonzalo Campos, and alleges that Watchtower’s controversial policies … Continue reading →
81 Comments
Superstar Prince Pronounced Dead: World in Shock Over Passing of Celebrity Jehovah’s Witness
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Posted on April 21, 2016
Prince
April 22nd, 2016 Seldom does the death of one individual captivate the news so completely as when a superbly talented, musically gifted, and internationally beloved icon such as Prince loses his life. What would be a routine day of reporting of the … Continue reading →
259 Comments
News Bulletin: Watchtower Faces Dilemma in Sex Abuse Ruling
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Posted on April 20, 2016
Lopez and Zalkin address the media at a press conference
Regular readers of JW Survey may recall the 2014 landmark court case of Jose Lopez in the US. The JW Survey coverage of the case can be found here, but to cut a long story short, Lopez had been repeatedly … Continue reading →
35 Comments
Science-denial to be a regular feature of Watchtower’s monthly JW Broadcasting episodes
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Posted on April 16, 2016
Yaroslav Dovhanych and Professor Raj Kalaria endorse Watchtower's anti-evolution stance
Watchtower has a long and ignominious history with its forays into the realm of science. Charles Taze Russell’s 1914 film The Photo-Drama of Creation advised cinema audiences that Earth was assembled in 49,000 years, that Noah’s Flood was caused by a Saturn-like orbital ring … Continue reading →
172 Comments
The Friday Column: The Annual Jehovah’s Witness Convention: a Pseudo-utopia
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Posted on April 15, 2016
Jehovah's Witness Assembly
Each year, lots of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world anticipate the convention season. It is a time of excitement as families set out to make plans for this annual gathering of like-minded people. For those who live far away from … Continue reading →
81 Comments
The Friday Column: Watchtower facing financial stormwaters?
Posted on April 8, 2016
JWMaze
I honestly thought it was a joke. When I first saw the image opposite being circulated online, I felt that it had to be a piece of satirical art, created by an Ex-JW. I mean, I knew Watchtower had been … Continue reading →
108 Comments
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