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Richard Turley of Swedish Rescue fame  
Posted: 26 April 2016 01:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Quartersawn
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Richard Eyring Turley, of Swedish Rescue obfuscation fame, is to lead the church's PR arm. 
 
http://www.sltrib.com/home/3821646-155/assistant-church-historian-to-oversee-mormon
 
Turley is a lawyer, turned historian. Perfect for more white-washing and CYA, lying for the Lord ahead.
 
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Posted: 26 April 2016 04:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Thanks for the link. It does look like more and more dishonesty still in the pipeline ahead. 
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Posted: 27 April 2016 04:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
former victim
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Apparently Mr. Turley is a well connected career company man who will no doubt earn his pay carrying more water to put out the future fires for TSCc (small c is intentional.) May he be blessed with ample buckets, as the Internet is relentless.
 
And like one commentator already mentioned, its a fancy name for a Myth Guardian.


   


Posted: 27 April 2016 02:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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former victim:
Apparently Mr. Turley is a well connected career company man who will no doubt earn his pay carrying more water to put out the future fires for TSCc (small c is intentional.) May he be blessed with ample buckets, as the Internet is relentless.
 
And like one commentator already mentioned, its a fancy name for a Myth Guardian.
 
 Thanks former victim! Myth Guardian is a fitting term! The history of this cult is chock full of ways and means that the lds enforce their fiction. Presently they are maintaining this posture as it indicates a future full of more of the same. 
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Posted: 28 April 2016 04:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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It is an extremely savvy move on the part of the Q15.  
 
When the real history of the Church is coming to light to the membership - at last through the Net and publications such as the essays in response - who better to deal with those questions than one totally familiar with the real history?  Who better to deal with the Church's involvement in politics than a laywer? Who better to defect and twist in the face of the crumbling of the YSA age's faith  - to the point of one of the Q15 actually acknowledging that a solid percentage of the YSAs and Young Marrieds found the Church's LGBT stance as based on hate and disciminatory - and the Church's political positions than a man who has both credentials?
 
No matter what we may feel about it and what he is defending, it is one of the better hires I have seen the Church make in some time. Now for Mr. Turley, as Star Trek's Q would say, "The hall is rented, the band engaged.  Now it's time to see if you can dance."
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Posted: 28 April 2016 04:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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Quartersawn
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bradspencer:
It is an extremely savvy move on the part of the Q15.  
 
When the real history of the Church is coming to light to the membership - at last through the Net and publications such as the essays in response - who better to deal with those questions than one totally familiar with the real history?  Who better to deal with the Church's involvement in politics than a laywer? Who better to defect and twist in the face of the crumbling of the YSA age's faith  - to the point of one of the Q15 actually acknowledging that a solid percentage of the YSAs and Young Marrieds found the Church's LGBT stance as based on hate and disciminatory - and the Church's political positions than a man who has both credentials?
 
No matter what we may feel about it and what he is defending, it is one of the better hires I have seen the Church make in some time. Now for Mr. Turley, as Star Trek's Q would say, "The hall is rented, the band engaged.  Now it's time to see if you can dance."
 
 And dance he will, around every non-faith promoting truth that comes back at him.
I totally agree with you, even though he knows the history, he also knows legal double-speak to get around the unsavory parts and still make "the gospel" look appealing.
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Why would you consider a man a prophet whose morals are worse than your own? Having claimed to commune with deity, be visited by angels and receive revelations, should he not be held to a higher standard? —me


   


Posted: 06 May 2016 08:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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MormonThink
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He sugarcoated the Swedish Rescue to the point that the Swedes were very dissatisifed with Turley (and jensen).  
 


   


Posted: 06 May 2016 10:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
peace out
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MormonThink:
He sugarcoated the Swedish Rescue to the point that the Swedes were very dissatisifed with Turley (and jensen).  
 
 
 No kidding I listened to that whole thing. He was stalling for 30 minutes then side stepped a few questions and them was lamenting that they didn't have enough time to answer questions in the depth they deserved but that their answers would be on their way. I may not be a Liar Historian , whoops lawyer Historian but I know when someone is blowing chaff. 
 
Now I shall preach to the choir   
There is sadly a huge difference between being committed to truth and being committed to a church. 
 
Can I get an Amen? 


   


Posted: 06 May 2016 08:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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peace out:
MormonThink:
He sugarcoated the Swedish Rescue to the point that the Swedes were very dissatisifed with Turley (and jensen).  
 
 
 No kidding I listened to that whole thing. He was stalling for 30 minutes then side stepped a few questions and them was lamenting that they didn't have enough time to answer questions in the depth they deserved but that their answers would be on their way. I may not be a Liar Historian , whoops lawyer Historian but I know when someone is blowing chaff. 
 
Now I shall preach to the choir   
There is sadly a huge difference between being committed to truth and being committed to a church. 
 
Can I get an Amen? 
 
 AMEN!
 
No mormon ever thought he lost a debate, as long as he still had something to say.  For mormons, it's not about facts or information, it's about listing possibilities and quoting feelings.  Also calling names... 
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2015 Conference
"LEAVING A LEGACY"
October 16-18
Doubletree Suites
SLC, Utah










 


Financial Report for 2011 to Date

Financial Report for 2010 to Date

Financial Report for 2009

Twin Falls Newspaper Article

Twin Falls Billboard

Financial Report for 2009 to Date




The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
[Sound Thinking]

Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
[Peep Stone!]

Native American DNA
[Post-Mormon Mag.]



Summer Schedule
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SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/1)
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I’m Proposing a Direct Link Between Mormonism’s Misogyny, a Passive Aggressive Culture and High Porn Use  
Posted: 21 April 2016 03:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Born Free
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I don't think anyone would dispute the misogyny of Mormon culture.
That leads to women feeling undervalued and disrespected, and humans have a tendency to fight back against such processes whenever and however they can.
And Mormon culture is also widely held to be extremely passive aggressive, with its emphasis on 'niceness' and discouraging assertiveness, passive aggressive behaviour flows easily.
So, I am proposing that when you add those together, the marital bed is a good candidate for women to express, either consciously or unconsciously. their displeasure at their 2nd class status, by refusing to actively participate in pleasure, even if they have any energy left after child bearing and caring.
The result - the marital bed can never be a place of real surrender, so a place where deep soul satisfaction remains elusive. For women, pleasure cannot be sought with the one place you have power.
Hence the appeal of porn for Mormon males.
That have any resonance with anyone??
Daryl
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‘Our life is the creation of our minds, and we do much of that creating in metaphor…. With the wrong metaphor we are deluded; with no metaphor we are blind. ’ Jonathan Haidt
‘and I am responsible for the metaphors that populate my mind.’ Daryl


   


Posted: 21 April 2016 07:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
Free2Live
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Sounds reasonable to me. How about adding the need for women to have more cosmetic surgery as well? The pressure to look perfect physically.
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One is as committed into testimony as much as they pay into the belief in dollars, time, talent and energy. Afterall, it has to be true once you have signed the lifetime subscription and you have a track record to defend.


   


Posted: 21 April 2016 07:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Born Free
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FreeLive:
Sounds reasonable to me. How about adding the need for women to have more cosmetic surgery as well? The pressure to look perfect physically.
 
 So, don't leave it there. Expand on where you see that fits.
Do you see them attempting to be more acceptable/lovable, but playing by the old rules?
Or if they increase their sexual appeal, do they get more power in their bedroom?
So if a great silicon rack increases power, does that help or hinder intimacy given the underlying dynamic which has not shifted one tittle?
Daryl
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‘Our life is the creation of our minds, and we do much of that creating in metaphor…. With the wrong metaphor we are deluded; with no metaphor we are blind. ’ Jonathan Haidt
‘and I am responsible for the metaphors that populate my mind.’ Daryl


   


Posted: 21 April 2016 07:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
Free2Live
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Born Free:
FreeLive:
Sounds reasonable to me. How about adding the need for women to have more cosmetic surgery as well? The pressure to look perfect physically.
 
 So, don't leave it there. Expand on where you see that fits.
Do you see them attempting to be more acceptable/lovable, but playing by the old rules?
Or if they increase their sexual appeal, do they get more power in their bedroom?
So if a great silicon rack increases power, does that help or hinder intimacy given the underlying dynamic which has not shifted one tittle?
Daryl
 
 A few thoughts came to mind. One being lds women I have chatted with very recently, used terminology about other women being cuter than her/them and can do or be what ever. Another is in that RMs do intensely look at their own acceptibility being based on getting the hottest babe they can upon return home. Many self rank them self with regard to beliefs based on appearance. Not only is $$ considered a paradigm of righteousness but the beauty of the possession (woman) weighs in on the delusion.
 
These along with other under tow traditional thinking motivate these things. IMHO 
 
As far as the power involved I am too outside the realm of marital experience to offer a fitting response. However, I would suspect that porn would be a huge competitor to race with for the female.  Have Plastic surgery in order to attract keep and maintain marriage may be in the subfiles of the delusional thinking.
.
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Posted: 22 April 2016 04:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
Hank
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When a woman reads a romance novel, the same part of her brain lights up as would a man's when he is looking at porn. Romance novels are women's porn; same effect, different visual. Romance novels are quite popular here in the Morridor.
 
IMO, most people like to get into a story that turns them on. Whether it's online or in a book. SOme don't need graphic detail, just the main story line gets 'em goin'. Mormon culture frowns on the viewing (but not on the reading) and stigmatizes it to a point where it becomes the forbidden fruit for men or boys with normal sex drives/hormones. People want forbidden fruit and the more you forbid it, the more enticing it becomes.
 
When I was TBM, talking/listening to other guys, I got the impression that many of their wives were not adventurous or willing to try things that the church deems as bad (which for some, bad=anything other than the missionary position). When intimacy gets boring, some guys look for an outlet.
 
When I still went to church and someone would bring up how porn was "wrecking marriages" I would bring up the fact that it takes two to tango and couples should dance as often and with as many new dance moves as they can. I don't mean to lay any blame, but the fact is that if a guy is satisfied with what he has, he won't go looking elsewhere. I imagine that goes for women as well.
 
This is not to defend porn, but it is not inherently "evil" (with a few exceptions like kids, etc). It all depends on what is watched, how one reacts to it, how one uses it, etc. Some make poor choices and get into things they shouldn't, etc.
 
 


   


Posted: 22 April 2016 04:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized
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Hank:
When a woman reads a romance novel, the same part of her brain lights up as would a man's when he is looking at porn. Romance novels are women's porn; same effect, different visual. Romance novels are quite popular here in the Morridor.
 
IMO, most people like to get into a story that turns them on. Whether it's online or in a book. SOme don't need graphic detail, just the main story line gets 'em goin'. Mormon culture frowns on the viewing (but not on the reading) and stigmatizes it to a point where it becomes the forbidden fruit for men or boys with normal sex drives/hormones. People want forbidden fruit and the more you forbid it, the more enticing it becomes.
 
When I was TBM, talking/listening to other guys, I got the impression that many of their wives were not adventurous or willing to try things that the church deems as bad (which for some, bad=anything other than the missionary position). When intimacy gets boring, some guys look for an outlet.
 
When I still went to church and someone would bring up how porn was "wrecking marriages" I would bring up the fact that it takes two to tango and couples should dance as often and with as many new dance moves as they can. I don't mean to lay any blame, but the fact is that if a guy is satisfied with what he has, he won't go looking elsewhere. I imagine that goes for women as well.
 
This is not to defend porn, but it is not inherently "evil" (with a few exceptions like kids, etc). It all depends on what is watched, how one reacts to it, how one uses it, etc. Some make poor choices and get into things they shouldn't, etc.
 
 
 
Therein lies the crux of the issue. A child screams loudest for candy when he/she can't have any. 
 
It doesn't really matter from whence the prohibition springs, just that the taboo exists. Be it a frigid partner, or a controlling organization saying "you can't do this," the mere forbidding makes it a mystery. I might also add that someone who has never been tempted to view porn might eventually become curious with all the harping done about it. Combine several prohibitive elements, and you're actually creating a real problem.
 
I'm thinking the only reason Utah's state legislators believe porn to be a public health issue is because every 6 months they are reminded how prevalent it is thanks to all the cautionary tales from the brethren. That type of influence does not exist in any other state. Forget pollution, hunger, child abuse, unemployment or homelessness. The brethren say porn is a problem and they don't say much about any other issue, so God must want us to focus on porn.
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Posted: 22 April 2016 04:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
finex
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Born Free:
I don't think anyone would dispute the misogyny of Mormon culture.
That leads to women feeling undervalued and disrespected, and humans have a tendency to fight back against such processes whenever and however they can.
And Mormon culture is also widely held to be extremely passive aggressive, with its emphasis on 'niceness' and discouraging assertiveness, passive aggressive behaviour flows easily.
So, I am proposing that when you add those together, the marital bed is a good candidate for women to express, either consciously or unconsciously. their displeasure at their 2nd class status, by refusing to actively participate in pleasure, even if they have any energy left after child bearing and caring.
The result - the marital bed can never be a place of real surrender, so a place where deep soul satisfaction remains elusive. For women, pleasure cannot be sought with the one place you have power.
Hence the appeal of porn for Mormon males.
That have any resonance with anyone??
Daryl
 
 I'd have to disagree with this reasoning, although mormonism cause all of the negative phenomenom you describe. My view on the reasons differ greatly.
 
Porn appeal for morgbots is the result of white bears syndrome. TSCC preaches endlessly about how one should continuously surpress ones sexuality thus causing obsessive behaviour towards everything relating to sex itself.
http://brainblogger.com/2009/12/09/white-bears-the-paradox-of-mental-suppression/
 
Misogyny is a result of patriachal organization. This inequality could actually date as far back as 500BCE when rabbinic Judaism and monotheism was conceived in Babylon. During this early Judaism the priests of the new religion erased all references to female deities from the holy texts and adopted the massculinity of the God of the armies called Yahweh from the Canaanite pantheon as the main characteristics of their new god whose name was so sacred that it couldn't even be spoken aloud.
Also Power in TSCC is exclusive to penishood, not even transgender can have it thus resulting naturally in a mindset how females cannot be leaders in any level. Equality is also regarded dangerous and recalling how top 15 have declared in the past how the feminists are among the greatest threats of modern age has... well there you go, very negative attitude towards the female sex.


   


Posted: 22 April 2016 12:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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I believe that there is a confluence of issues some American culture Some shall we say Mormon enhanced. What comes to mind is an unwillingness to condone people having sex. This is a Western cultural norm. Western culture really has not resolved that issue. You don’t want babies without daddies. So no sex before marriage, even petting is not condoned tradionally, there are fears around disease transmission.  Social stigma still exists around babies born outside of wedlock especially if the person is young. Being interested in sex openly has a social stigma it’s not polite to talk about in mixed company, you don’t want to be accused of being to free with your sexuality… Culturally men really don’t want to raise other men’s children. So there is a major practical consideration for woman if their partner is not going to be around. There is also the issue of education vs. reproduction that has not been resolved.  Needless to say our culture really needs some work in this area. All these traditional values become more strained with the introduction of advice from on high,  Not only is their culture baggage the normal people have to wade through but then the rules become inflexible with the addition of Big G, Big J, and Holy the Ghost.
There is virtually no condoned sexual behavior , No thinking about sex, no looking at sex- porn, no reading about sex(ladies), no petting, no self-pleasing, no sex outside of marriage. Birth control is discouraged. No talking about sex, no joking about sex don’t be to kinky when your married, no oral sex. There is also active enforcement of sexual standards bishop’s interviews. Snooping for the lord on roommates….I have even heard Mormons start changing the language around porn to mimic the language of drugs. “Using Porn”  
With systems like this in place sneaking anonymous porn in the privacy of your own house not much of a surprise. 
 
I think as our society has a lot of work aheard to resolve these issue and once again mormons are leading from behind. 
 


   


Posted: 09 May 2016 07:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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i am really curious as to which gender views "porn" more. it seems most the blame goes on the men. this may be true or not. growing up in the morg, i was always told it was all boys ever thought about, leading me to believe there was something wrong with me for being female and also constantly thinking about sex.
 
in college, i soon discovered that lots of girls view porn (i went to an all girls college, east coast)... 
 
in my marriage now, my husband does not look at porn, though he admits to seeing it before marriage. i didnt look before marriage but i do now. its not really hardcore, i would consider it more like eroticism, and it helps me get in the mood, so i dont really see anything wrong with it as it enhances our intimacy.
 
how could that be a bad thing if it enhances the mood, its equivalent to make up, a little bit enhances your looks, but yes, too much make up is a bad thing.
 
all things in moderation, right!  


   


            
 
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An interesting study on Porn  
Posted: 13 May 2016 07:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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  http://www.cnet.com/news/watching-porn-regularly-makes-you-more-religious-study-says/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link
 
favorite quote : "Another fascination was that those who view pornography once a day or more attend religious services at almost the same level as those who say they never, no never look at porn at all. "
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Posted: 13 May 2016 10:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Just goes to show... Porn and Religion go together like a horse and carriage.  


   


Posted: 13 May 2016 10:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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The shame religion puts around sexuality is actually making these people addicted. If they had a normal, naturally developing sexuality, and were allowed to masturbate and talk about it without ascribing judgement to it or believing they are "commiting sin second to murder in their hearts" every time they see an attractive woman, they wouldn't have the self-hatred compulsion cycle going on.  

   


            
 
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LDS Church Announces Fifteen Big Changes In The Word Of Wisdom  
Posted: 07 May 2016 05:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Salt Lake City, UT - Thomas S Monson proclaimed his first and only revelation during his tenure as prophet, seer and revelator of the world's fastest declining organized religion at a press conference in his office at 47 East South Temple.
Monson who never speaks directly to the media, using his powerful public relations director, Michael Prudy as the Lord's mouthpiece, on this special occasion addressed the Carthage like mob of reporters directly.
"The Lord has personally instructed me to re-invigorate The First Presidency and The Quorum of the Twelve Apostles because yea, even the Lord Himself has grown weary of the shallow and meaningless ramblings we've been spewing forth for decades of General Conferences."
"I bear testimony that the Savior has a sharp sense of humor", Monson gleefully added. "You, Henry and Dieter act more like The First Redundancy instead of the First Presidency!" quoting Jesus Christ directly while wiggling his ears.
Speaking in the typical Mormon metaphor style Monson continued, "We can't keep putting good wine into old vessels."
With a sparkle in his eye and more animated than ever before Monson confessed with a grin, "In fact I've had two glasses of chardonnay today to celebrate this new revelation about Apostolic Succession and The Word of Wisdom."
The stunned media minions were too stumped to ask a question so Monson continued.
"The Lord wants to clear out the old wood and let some new saplings have a go at Church Leadership. Currently we Brethren live too healthy a lifestyle and live way too long. No one will ever become prophet until their mid 80's or even into their 90's. Just look at my successor, Russell M Nelson who is actually older than I am." Monson noted.
So let it be known and the Lord sayeth, "The top fifteen apostles are hereby exempted from The Word of Wisdom and in fact encouraged to experiment freely with alcohol, tobacco, spiritual substances of the forests and the deserts, holy hemp weeds of all manner, coffee from Columbia or Kolob and walk with loud laughter and light mindedness from now until eternity."
Still dumfounded, the media had no immediate response so Monson, after allowing a full minute of silence to pass for effect, continued.
"In the Lord's wisdom, by commanding his Brethren to "break the Word of Wisdom" we will start dying off at a faster clip, get some desperately needed new blood in here and you all might actually have a prophet and president of the Church under the age of sixty for the first time in over a century. So how do you like them coffee beans!" Monson challenged.
Robert Kirby, from the Salt Lake Tribune was brave enough to ask, "Well, what about the rest of us regular pewsters?"
Monson retorted, "We can't have everyone on a telestial tear at the same time, so NO, you and the faithful will be held to current Temple Recommend standards. This is the Lord's way of lambasting the lethargic log jam at the top as we are suffering mightily from celestial constipation.
With his last sip of wine Monson chuckled, "Betcha attendance at the Next General Conference will be standing room only!"
Peggy Fletcher Stack, also of the Tribune pleaded, "Pretty please President Monson, can't we faithful ones at least have real red wine filling our sacrament cups each Sunday?"
Monson, considered, stared off into the heavens for a brief moment, then looked Sister Fletch Stack deeply into her fawnlike eyes and replied, "Why yes my dear, the Savior would have it so."


   


Posted: 07 May 2016 11:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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And sacramental sippy cups were immediatly replaced with 16 oz Solo cups, Elders and even High Priests volunteered to 'prepare' the sacrament on a weekly basis, and women pushed even harder to gain access to the priesthood. Meanwhile Sacrament Meeting attendance shot up beyond ward membership records.
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Posted: 09 May 2016 08:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Oh thanks so much for this! It just cracks me up to think of the prophet, seer, and revelator having something slightly prophetic to say, especially something fun.


   


Posted: 09 May 2016 08:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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UPDATE: Moral Code Changes Added to Clear Up General Authority Aging Problem
 
Via Press Release
 
The changes to the Word of Wisdom intended to speed the passage of the General Authorities has been deemed inadequate by the Savior.  It seems the old guys simply fall asleep before they can injest enough substances to be helpful.
 
So the Savior has revealed to the Prophet that Viagra and Unofficial Polygamy (also known as serial adultery) will be added to the list of forgiven offenses of these general Authorities.  
 
In order to insure the effictiveness of this eternal plan, the Church has acquired a certain Real Estate Asset from one Hugh Heffener.  The Mansion in question will undergo rushed renovations, fumigation, high speed internet, and built-in espresso machines, and a dedication ceremony. Then all future private conferences and vacations of the General Authorities will take place there.  The first such conference date is being scheduled now and will be announced as soon as special guest, Charlie Sheen, can be committed to a date. 
 
Again, these revelations come to you directly from the Lord through our Prophet for a holy purpose that is part of his eternal plan.  As always, the rest of you should stick to all the normal rules for the Saints, and try not to notice the 1% surcharge on your tithing to pay for these new revelations to be instituted.  This surchage may be avoided in lieu of sending your young daughters to serve in the afformentioned mansion. 
 
As always, the Lord reserves the right to send Angels with regulations to clarify the plan, or to repeal it altogether if it results in any litigation threatening our Tax Free Status. 


   


Posted: 09 May 2016 09:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Left, you are truly inspired!  I will gladly sustain you as Profiteer at the next General Conference! 

   


            
 
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Guilt and Fear ruin relationships
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Jeff Holland in Tempe "furious with people who leave"
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The future of Mormonism?
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"Empathy Is The Opposite of Utopia" a Possible Explanation for Mormon Empathy Deficit
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I never got an answer
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2015 Conference
"LEAVING A LEGACY"
October 16-18
Doubletree Suites
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Financial Report for 2011 to Date

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Twin Falls Billboard

Financial Report for 2009 to Date




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[Sound Thinking]

Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
[Peep Stone!]

Native American DNA
[Post-Mormon Mag.]



Summer Schedule
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[Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
Train ride and picnic Meetup: 2/27/16
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Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
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Resignation Letter to My Family
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Post-mormon Roles
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Post-mormon Roles
former victim

The Book of Mormon Musical comes to South Carolina!
Swearing Elder

Resignation Letter to My Family
INRETROSPECT

Resignation Letter to My Family
oneanother

Utah County CALM meetup for November
BlackSheep2

FACEBOOK INFO
Crissy

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October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
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On Popes, Prophets and Natural Disasters  
Posted: 07 May 2016 12:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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One of the top news stories around the world this week are the wildfires raging in Northern Alberta, Canada. Around 100,000 people have been evacuated. Entire communities have been burnt to the ground and people have lost everything except what they could put in their vehicles on short notice. Yesterday, it was the top story on both the CNN and the BBC web pages. Of course, in these parts (south central Alberta), it's all we hear about, with 24 x 7 news coverage. 
 
Last night, I saw on TV that even the Pope had issued a statement of prayer and support for the people in and around Fort McMurray, Alberta. So 5 minutes ago, out of curiosity, I went to the lds.org web page. You know what I found there? Nothing. Zip. Nada. Dick. Jack squat. Yep, the "mope" has remained silent. Monson is mute on the subject, as are his henchmen. 
 
Where is God's prophet? Why hasn't the church's PR department jumped all over this photo op ... er ... missionary opportunity? No doubt they'll soon be there in their helping hands t-shirts, but right now, when the world is responding, God's one true church is missing in action. 
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Posted: 07 May 2016 05:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Late to the party AGAIN...
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Once mormon, twice shy.


   


Posted: 07 May 2016 05:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Just like all the other things they find unimportant, they consider it a local matter. 
 
Sorry your community is in danger, and I hope you're safe.  
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Why would you consider a man a prophet whose morals are worse than your own? Having claimed to commune with deity, be visited by angels and receive revelations, should he not be held to a higher standard? —me


   


Posted: 07 May 2016 06:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
Strong Free & Thankful
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Matter Unorganized:
One of the top news stories around the world this week are the wildfires raging in Northern Alberta, Canada. Around 100,000 people have been evacuated. Entire communities have been burnt to the ground and people have lost everything except what they could put in their vehicles on short notice. Yesterday, it was the top story on both the CNN and the BBC web pages. Of course, in these parts (south central Alberta), it's all we hear about, with 24 x 7 news coverage. 
 
Last night, I saw on TV that even the Pope had issued a statement of prayer and support for the people in and around Fort McMurray, Alberta. So 5 minutes ago, out of curiosity, I went to the lds.org web page. You know what I found there? Nothing. Zip. Nada. Dick. Jack squat. Yep, the "mope" has remained silent. Monson is mute on the subject, as are his henchmen. 
 
Where is God's prophet? Why hasn't the church's PR department jumped all over this photo op ... er ... missionary opportunity? No doubt they'll soon be there in their helping hands t-shirts, but right now, when the world is responding, God's one true church is missing in action. 
 
 Sorry this is happening MU.  I have been seeing coverage on this.  I was heart touched that Syrian refugees who owe everything they have to the Canadians who took them in, got together on FB and decided to contribute $5 each.  The morg will get in the game as soon as the PR Dept decides to the church can best benefit from the situation.

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I laughed out loud and said “Thank you sir. And I hope every time you hear the name of JS you don’t think about him having sex with those girls and the women who were already married because if you’re going to start being honest with yourself then sooner or later you will also realize a real god would never do that, a real prophet would never do that, and it’s all just bull shit.”
Oh mercy, it just felt so damn good to say that.  —BOLD WISH


   


Posted: 08 May 2016 05:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
GrandmaNeverMo
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Matter Unorganized:
One of the top news stories around the world this week are the wildfires raging in Northern Alberta, Canada. Around 100,000 people have been evacuated. Entire communities have been burnt to the ground and people have lost everything except what they could put in their vehicles on short notice. Yesterday, it was the top story on both the CNN and the BBC web pages. Of course, in these parts (south central Alberta), it's all we hear about, with 24 x 7 news coverage. 
 
Last night, I saw on TV that even the Pope had issued a statement of prayer and support for the people in and around Fort McMurray, Alberta. So 5 minutes ago, out of curiosity, I went to the lds.org web page. You know what I found there? Nothing. Zip. Nada. Dick. Jack squat. Yep, the "mope" has remained silent. Monson is mute on the subject, as are his henchmen. 
 
Where is God's prophet? Why hasn't the church's PR department jumped all over this photo op ... er ... missionary opportunity? No doubt they'll soon be there in their helping hands t-shirts, but right now, when the world is responding, God's one true church is missing in action. 
 
 MU-
 
My heart goes out to Alberta. In recent years my part of the world has suffered some bad fires with tens of thousands evacuated, hundreds of homes burned and even people dead. Seeing the news from Alberta brings back the memories. My house, so far, has been away from any fires, but friends and acquaintances haven't been so fortunate. 
 
I predict that Alberta will receive kindness and generosity on a scale that you can't imagine, often from places thousands of miles away. The stories of loss, fear and anger from those displaced will break your heart; you will also hear of great heroism. The fire will be the primary topic of conversation for local residents for months, long after the fire is out.  The fire will affect life there in many and unpredictable ways, for many years. Time will be measured as "before the fire" and "after the fire." Good things will happen because of the fire, as hard as it is to believe.
 
Next spring, wildflowers will spring up in "the black" and the beauty will take your breath away.
 
Alberta will get through this horrific time but will be changed forever.
 
Here's a book recommendation: The Fire Outside My Window by Sandra Millers Younger. The author survived the Cedar Fire in San Diego a few years ago and she knows whereof she speaks. After that experience she came to appreciate the importance of resilience following disaster and she has become a motivational speaker on this topic.


   


Posted: 09 May 2016 08:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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Celestial Wedgie
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MU, it's interesting that you would look to LDS.org just to see. One of the ways that I've measured my departure from the church is reflecting after the fact of personal tragedies on how inclined I was to turn to the LDS church and its purported access to awesome God-loaned powers. I have my own version of prayer, but it's to a goddess I invented. Other than that I never even think of praying, much less turning to LDS leaders. In my view they have never been reliable at leading. On the other hand, the LDs church is pretty adept at spinning events to their PR advantage.
 
The tragedy of the wildfires in Alberta is another case in point: no warning in advance from the LDS leadership, no advice on how to deal with "temporal" challenges, no genuine solace of support during the crisis. If LDS, Inc., is true to form then I predict (along with others on this thread) that The [One True] Church will come around later, offer well-publicized help, and bear humble testimony of how much God loves us and wants the best for us all.
 
So what does the LDS church offer in reality?
 
It has some pretty good after-the-fact PR.  I'll give them that.


   


Posted: 09 May 2016 09:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
leftasteen
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Clearly the  were behind in their tithing, 'ey?
 
Didn't you learn anything when you were in Sunday School? Why would the church go bail out the Tithing Heathens?  Why would they mute the Lord's clear message? Eh?
 
How about the rest of you, up to date on those checks?  
 
You know there is a new tithing program where if you sign up for Automatic Electronic Funds Transfer, you get an extra warranty against small accidental kitchen and garage fires too!!   Just swipe your ATM card at the kiosk in the foyer, and you're protected!! Isn't the Gospel wonderful!!
 
 
 
 


   


            
 
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What might the Church look like in the future?  
Posted: 22 April 2016 01:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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What might The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints look like in the future?
 
If the Church survives at all, what might it look like?
First The Book of Mormon has to go. Or does it? Could it be truthfully brought out as fiction? Could it be used as faith inspiring if it is aknowledged as fiction. Will they still be called "Mormons"
Joseph Smith's failings will HAVE to be recognized.
The difference between the teachings of the "doctrine" and the Bible and Book of Mormon will have to be explored.
The Brethren will have to stop calling themselves "Prophets, seers and revelators" 
What will they be called then?
Could they turn their preaching to Jesus, the Bible and the humanitarian efforts they are so proud of.
They MUST be transparrent about how tithing is spent.
What else can you think of in a world where the Church survives?
 
Perhaps they will dig in and become even more cultish? 
 
 
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Posted: 22 April 2016 04:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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I hope they will be called leeches because of their true parasitic nature. 

   


Posted: 22 April 2016 04:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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I think as long as they can keep money coming in they'll just continue to try to be seen as more politically correct. Changing things whenever they can't get away with it any longer. Trying to market themselves as humanitarians and Christians. The rolling stone is really the big green mormon PR machine. 

   


Posted: 23 April 2016 07:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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If they tried they could slowly transfer into the Church of Jesus Christ. And leave the Latter Day Saint part out. They could start teaching from the Bible only and abandon the "doctrines" Like a said before they could probably retain the Book of Mormon as "faith inspiring" but fictional and stop trying to prove it's validity. The Book of Abraham and Moses would HAVE to go.
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Posted: 23 April 2016 08:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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They will never be able to slide away form the Mormon aspect.
 
The "Essays" are going to be the new Church History.  
 
Isn't great that an organization can totally rewrite its history right in front of us and its members and almost 95% of the members don't bat an eye because they aren't reading them and have been "mentally mechanized" for years to follow every little tidbit that whatever the Church does is to them God given. 
 
The Church will have to show where the money goes and explain it, through some lawsuits that will go all the way up to the Supreme Court.
 
 
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Posted: 23 April 2016 08:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
TheDogLady
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Jon Marshall:
They will never be able to slide away form the Mormon aspect.
 
The "Essays" are going to be the new Church History.  
 
Isn't great that an organization can totally rewrite its history right in front of us and its members and almost 95% of the members don't bat an eye because they aren't reading them and have been "mentally mechanized" for years to follow every little tidbit that whatever the Church does is to them God given. 
 
The Church will have to show where the money goes and explain it, through some lawsuits that will go all the way up to the Supreme Court.
 
 
 
 I absolutely believe that the Church will have to start showing where it's tithe paying members money is going.
That has to happen! 
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Posted: 23 April 2016 11:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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TheDogLady:
If they tried they could slowly transfer into the Church of Jesus Christ. And leave the Latter Day Saint part out. They could start teaching from the Bible only and abandon the "doctrines" Like a said before they could probably retain the Book of Mormon as "faith inspiring" but fictional and stop trying to prove it's validity. The Book of Abraham and Moses would HAVE to go.
 
 This would be a slow death to them and they know it.  It is difficult enough for other Christian churches to hold on right now.  Without its extra ordinary claims--which are all lies--it has nothing.  As more documentaries, more news articles, more people are knowing the truth--it is a sinking ship.  Ah--but not all is lost!  They are slowly becoming a huge Real Estate conglomerate.  Hopefully, they will make a lot of money so when the time is right and the class action suits come--they can pay us back our tithing.  I want my money back! 
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I laughed out loud and said “Thank you sir. And I hope every time you hear the name of JS you don’t think about him having sex with those girls and the women who were already married because if you’re going to start being honest with yourself then sooner or later you will also realize a real god would never do that, a real prophet would never do that, and it’s all just bull shit.”
Oh mercy, it just felt so damn good to say that.  —BOLD WISH


   


Posted: 23 April 2016 02:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
leftasteen
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Winyan has it right.
 
It's just a big corporation now.  Revenue streams, investments, influence, connections.  
 
We all now know that the Marlborough Man was a big lie, yet they are still sold, and the company goes on. 
 
The pack of lies around the church's foundation and first 150 years will just be de-emphasized and the shear momentum will carry the church for decades.    
 
Think about the scandals the Catholics have survived.
 
Ultimately the LDS church is just like all the other religions that are also hokem and yet have survived, some for centuries.  
 
Where there is cash flow, there is religion. 
 
 


   


Posted: 23 April 2016 04:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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The RLDS branch of the original LDS church has already transitioned from "one and only true church" to "Christian fellowship". Once unassailable teachings such as the first vision are now merely described as spiritual experiences of their founder. They even gave up rlds.org, as part of a complete re-brand decades in the making. http://www.cofchrist.org/ The larger Utah branch of the original LDS church is almost unrecognizable today versus 150 years ago. Gone are the core doctrines of polygamy, Adam-God, and the permanently-cursed seed of Cain. Brigham Young's Mormons would be appalled by the current teachings and might recognize more Mormonism in Hilldale than in Salt Lake City. Likewise, in another 50 years, Mormons may think of doctrines like "God was once a man" as funny things that their grandparents believed. Prejudice against gays will be an "old person bigot" thing. By the end of the century, Mormonism may be more a statement of clean living and brotherhood than a religion. Meanwhile, religiosity in the home market (USA) is steadily decreasing year-over-over and millions of registered Mormons are feeling a lot more comfortable in society as calling themselves more-spiritual-than-religious. The churn rate of people exiting Mormonism through disaffiliation or death continue to shrink the active membership base of the church. And with the exponential worldwide population growth, the percentage of active Mormons vs. world population declines even faster. Some ardent Mormons would say that all of this is evidence that we are approaching a time when the wheat and the chaff will be separated and a smaller number of true believers survive to meet the almighty. Many ardent Mormons believed the same thing about their present time 50 years ago. And 100 years ago. And 150 years ago. Beliefs live on. 

   


Posted: 23 April 2016 04:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
TheDogLady
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Clarity:
The RLDS branch of the original LDS church has already transitioned from "one and only true church" to "Christian fellowship". Once unassailable teachings such as the first vision are now merely described as spiritual experiences of their founder. They even gave up rlds.org, as part of a complete re-brand decades in the making. http://www.cofchrist.org/ The larger Utah branch of the original LDS church is almost unrecognizable today versus 150 years ago. Gone are the core doctrines of polygamy, Adam-God, and the permanently-cursed seed of Cain. Brigham Young's Mormons would be appalled by the current teachings and might recognize more Mormonism in Hilldale than in Salt Lake City. Likewise, in another 50 years, Mormons may think of doctrines like "God was once a man" as funny things that their grandparents believed. Prejudice against gays will be an "old person bigot" thing. By the end of the century, Mormonism may be more a statement of clean living and brotherhood than a religion. Meanwhile, religiosity in the home market (USA) is steadily decreasing year-over-over and millions of registered Mormons are feeling a lot more comfortable in society as calling themselves more-spiritual-than-religious. The churn rate of people exiting Mormonism through disaffiliation or death continue to shrink the active membership base of the church. And with the exponential worldwide population growth, the percentage of active Mormons vs. world population declines even faster. Some ardent Mormons would say that all of this is evidence that we are approaching a time when the wheat and the chaff will be separated and a smaller number of true believers survive to meet the almighty. Many ardent Mormons believed the same thing about their present time 50 years ago. And 100 years ago. And 150 years ago. Beliefs live on.
 
 I think/hope you are right. I am absolutely sure that in several years the musings of Boyd K. Packer and Dallin H. Oaks will be the "they were a product of their time" people. It will be interesting. My best friend who I told about this said, "all I keep thinking is how at the last days even the "very elect" will be deceived. I can only surmise she meant me. I don't think I am "very elect"
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Posted: 24 April 2016 08:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
finex
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I believe it is more likely that the membership material that will be left within the ranks of TSCC will be the hard core radical TBMs. While shrinking this will lead to radicalization of TSCC in the long run and I believe we are already seeing sings of this as people are being excommunicated for asking questions and discriminatory policies being enforced. So I think the future of TSCC will look more like that of JW cult, members actively shunning exmembers and isolating themselves from the "wordly". 

   


Posted: 25 April 2016 05:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]   

   
 
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Clarity:
The RLDS branch of the original LDS church has already transitioned from "one and only true church" to "Christian fellowship". Once unassailable teachings such as the first vision are now merely described as spiritual experiences of their founder. They even gave up rlds.org, as part of a complete re-brand decades in the making. http://www.cofchrist.org/ The larger Utah branch of the original LDS church is almost unrecognizable today versus 150 years ago. Gone are the core doctrines of polygamy, Adam-God, and the permanently-cursed seed of Cain. Brigham Young's Mormons would be appalled by the current teachings and might recognize more Mormonism in Hilldale than in Salt Lake City. Likewise, in another 50 years, Mormons may think of doctrines like "God was once a man" as funny things that their grandparents believed. Prejudice against gays will be an "old person bigot" thing. By the end of the century, Mormonism may be more a statement of clean living and brotherhood than a religion. Meanwhile, religiosity in the home market (USA) is steadily decreasing year-over-over and millions of registered Mormons are feeling a lot more comfortable in society as calling themselves more-spiritual-than-religious. The churn rate of people exiting Mormonism through disaffiliation or death continue to shrink the active membership base of the church. And with the exponential worldwide population growth, the percentage of active Mormons vs. world population declines even faster. Some ardent Mormons would say that all of this is evidence that we are approaching a time when the wheat and the chaff will be separated and a smaller number of true believers survive to meet the almighty. Many ardent Mormons believed the same thing about their present time 50 years ago. And 100 years ago. And 150 years ago. Beliefs live on.
 
I logged in to say something like this about the RLDS/CoC. The only thing I would add to this is that as the RLDS/CoC gradually distanced itself from practices similar to those in the Utah church, they lost a large percentage of their membership (I have heard as much as 50% but have been unable to substantiate this number). They now present themselves as a mainstream Christian church, and do not call themselves the only true church.
 
The Utah church would never do anything which could result in a large loss of membership. If they did, it would have to be so gradual that members would not notice unless they were paying attention. But how could the members not notice if the church dropped the claim that the BoM was true, or that the BoA was not true? What if the church dropped the endowment, or finally dropped the designation as God's one true church? These things would not bode well.
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You’re like the Gandhi of postmo. - Lloyd Dobler


   


Posted: 25 April 2016 06:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]   

   
 
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guywithearrings50
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leftasteen:
Winyan has it right.
 
It's just a big corporation now.  Revenue streams, investments, influence, connections.  
 
We all now know that the Marlborough Man was a big lie, yet they are still sold, and the company goes on. 
 
The pack of lies around the church's foundation and first 150 years will just be de-emphasized and the shear momentum will carry the church for decades.    
 
Think about the scandals the Catholics have survived.
 
Ultimately the LDS church is just like all the other religions that are also hokem and yet have survived, some for centuries.  
 
Where there is cash flow, there is religion. 
 
 
 
 I agree wholeheartedly! As long as the money is flowing the church will survive. 
 
It's just sad that a church this rich could help so many people both here in North America and elsewhere in the world, while true Christian organizations struggle for money to help the poor.  


   


Posted: 25 April 2016 06:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]   

   
 
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maynardg
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Every party needs a pooper that's why we invited you  --  party pooper!
You don't know how much I wish that the morg would self-destruct in front of all the TBMorgbots  --  but I don't think it's going to happen.  My reasoning:  Oaks, Holland and especially Bednar are going to take up the slack left by the death of those other penishood old farts!  IMVHO, Bednar is an *^$hole extraordinaire!  The morg has an advanced PR team lead by that PR guy who recently gave a piece in the SL Tribune that I'm sure had morgbots literally drooling spiritually!  Whenever something juicy comes along, I think  --  YES!  --  this is going to cause the HORSESHIT to hit the fan and it turns out like the IRS scandal or Bengazi  --  like some guys and sex  --  all talk and no action!  The TBMorgbots are so entrenched in their morgbot comas, it would take pinnochio joe  coming back and personally telling them that it is all a bunch of HORSESHIT!  And IMVHO, I believe that they wouldn't believe him.
But despite it all  --  I have hope  --  you gotta have hope. And I hope in what's left of my lifetime. I get to see something bring the morg and its profits, sears and roebucks to their collective knees  --  how happy will be my day  --  break out the champagne!


   


Posted: 25 April 2016 07:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]   

   
 
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Matter Unorganized
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maynardg:
Every party needs a pooper that's why we invited you  --  party pooper!
You don't know how much I wish that the morg would self-destruct in front of all the TBMorgbots  --  but I don't think it's going to happen.  My reasoning:  Oaks, Holland and especially Bednar are going to take up the slack left by the death of those other penishood old farts!  IMVHO, Bednar is an *^$hole extraordinaire!  The morg has an advanced PR team lead by that PR guy who recently gave a piece in the SL Tribune that I'm sure had morgbots literally drooling spiritually!  Whenever something juicy comes along, I think  --  YES!  --  this is going to cause the HORSESHIT to hit the fan and it turns out like the IRS scandal or Bengazi  --  like some guys and sex  --  all talk and no action!  The TBMorgbots are so entrenched in their morgbot comas, it would take pinnochio joe  coming back and personally telling them that it is all a bunch of HORSESHIT!  And IMVHO, I believe that they wouldn't believe him.
But despite it all  --  I have hope  --  you gotta have hope. And I hope in what's left of my lifetime. I get to see something bring the morg and its profits, sears and roebucks to their collective knees  --  how happy will be my day  --  break out the champagne!
 
Again, Brother Maynard G. Krebbs hits the proverbial nail on the head.
 
One of my biggest frustrations with DW is that she will take the word of 15 fossils in SLC, none of whom she has ever met, over anything I say. She has known me for over 20 years, but I can't hold a candle to them. My parents and most of my siblings would be the same way, and I imagine it's the same for most TBMs. The hero worship and rockstar status these guys get is appalling. It is totally cult-like. 
 
The church can face down any crisis by trotting out one of the apostles to say "This is the way it is" and the membership will lap it up and claim "Isn't this wonderful, that we get the words of a living prophet/apostle to guide us," completely oblivious to the big picture. Monson could get caught with his pants down, Viagra™ in hand, and a "revelation" would be forthcoming to make it all better.
 
Many of the things which led to my dissafection were dismissed as anti-mormon lies. When the essays came out I had a sense of vindication, but it was short lived. Now the reaction I get is "Read the essays, it's all explained." It has gone from lies and attacks to reasonably explained in just a couple of years. The church is made of teflon.
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You’re like the Gandhi of postmo. - Lloyd Dobler


   


Posted: 25 April 2016 08:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]   

   
 
David Jason
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I'm really pretty unsure how it will play out. I see a lot of older mormons getting even more strict, but younger mormons are more progressive. The only thing I think will surely happen is that it will get smaller. It will move more and more to look like Scientology where it has huge real estate investments a couple token members and a bunch of people bound up in a guilt ridden need for the organization to provide them the antidote. I only hope my wife leaves someday. I think my children will leave someday (since I provide them some space in a compromise with my wife) and generally if your parents don't force you to be Mormon, I think it's unlikely they'll retain belief through their teen years.
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Posted: 25 April 2016 08:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]   

   
 
Free2Live
Long Timer
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Joined  2012-09-01
 
  
 
Matter Unorganized:
maynardg:
Every party needs a pooper that's why we invited you  --  party pooper!
You don't know how much I wish that the morg would self-destruct in front of all the TBMorgbots  --  but I don't think it's going to happen.  My reasoning:  Oaks, Holland and especially Bednar are going to take up the slack left by the death of those other penishood old farts!  IMVHO, Bednar is an *^$hole extraordinaire!  The morg has an advanced PR team lead by that PR guy who recently gave a piece in the SL Tribune that I'm sure had morgbots literally drooling spiritually!  Whenever something juicy comes along, I think  --  YES!  --  this is going to cause the HORSESHIT to hit the fan and it turns out like the IRS scandal or Bengazi  --  like some guys and sex  --  all talk and no action!  The TBMorgbots are so entrenched in their morgbot comas, it would take pinnochio joe  coming back and personally telling them that it is all a bunch of HORSESHIT!  And IMVHO, I believe that they wouldn't believe him.
But despite it all  --  I have hope  --  you gotta have hope. And I hope in what's left of my lifetime. I get to see something bring the morg and its profits, sears and roebucks to their collective knees  --  how happy will be my day  --  break out the champagne!
 
Again, Brother Maynard G. Krebbs hits the proverbial nail on the head.
 
One of my biggest frustrations with DW is that she will take the word of 15 fossils in SLC, none of whom she has ever met, over anything I say. She has known me for over 20 years, but I can't hold a candle to them. My parents and most of my siblings would be the same way, and I imagine it's the same for most TBMs. The hero worship and rockstar status these guys get is appalling. It is totally cult-like. 
 
The church can face down any crisis by trotting out one of the apostles to say "This is the way it is" and the membership will lap it up and claim "Isn't this wonderful, that we get the words of a living prophet/apostle to guide us," completely oblivious to the big picture. Monson could get caught with his pants down, Viagra™ in hand, and a "revelation" would be forthcoming to make it all better.
 
Many of the things which led to my dissafection were dismissed as anti-mormon lies. When the essays came out I had a sense of vindication, but it was short lived. Now the reaction I get is "Read the essays, it's all explained." It has gone from lies and attacks to reasonably explained in just a couple of years. The church is made of teflon.
 
 Dear MU,
your response here to maynard addressed the brainwashed reality of the membership of the lds cult. I at this time I feel the need to 'trot' out a name that postmo folks have become accustomed for me to point out. ___ ____ __ ______. This particular internet business savvy man did many things in trying to help his cause including a study on why people leave the church.
http://www.whymormonsquestion.org/2012/05/21/understanding-mormon-disbelief-march-2012-results-and-analysis/  
This study was beneficial to both the active member that had questions about doctrine, mistreatment or doubt in general. This study was "useful" to the cult and in part this man should get some credit in helping shape the church into a more focussed cult with a better control manipulative game plan.
 
I am worthy to say that I never donated to his business. Especially I am glad to have not answered the inner feelings of guilt for not paying his business.  Really here I am offering another perspective of an opportunist that was used by the church until his value was spent...then the cult exxed him.  
 
The essays do reinforce the cults grip on individual minds.
 
A big tent is useful afterall. STAYlds.
 
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One is as committed into testimony as much as they pay into the belief in dollars, time, talent and energy. Afterall, it has to be true once you have signed the lifetime subscription and you have a track record to defend.


   


Posted: 25 April 2016 04:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]   

   
 
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bradspencer74
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Nothing will happen to the Church.  That is the sadistic beauty of "continual" revelation in a hierarchy.  They can change anything they want, whenever they want, and the VAST majority of the sheeple TBMs will eat it up, and the social mormons stay in for family reasons or ease of living in the morridor.  
 
Just consider the sheer volume of changes to LDS doctrines that have happened over the last 170 years.  Joseph Smith or Brigham Young would not recognize this thing - would probably condemn them all as apostate - because it has changed so much.  Yet, the membership stays.
 
Blacks with the priesthood after 150 years of saying it was impossible - No effect.
Polygamy changes when it is in LDS scripture and the pronouncement of "prophets" that to not practice it would condemn the people - Slightest effect.
Continual rewrites of the Book of Mormon - No effect. 
Changes to the unchangable temple ceremonies - No effect.
Deliberate de-emphasis of Joseph Smith - No effect. 
Blatent lies on television from GBH - No effect.
 
 I can go on and on, but Mormons believe because they WANT to believe it.  It makes them feel special.  It supplies basic human emotional needs to those who do not want to face facts.   Look at Roman Catholicism - at least 1700 years in existence with doctrinal changes that make Mormons look like zealot defenders of their religion.  Yet, there are over a billion of them.  They very nearly rewrote their entire religious practice with Vatican II, yet nothing changed.  Because Catholics WANT to believe or they are social Catholics.
 
 
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“Fitness is my religion and the gym is my temple” Fitness God 3:16
The Gym is my Church.  My sweat is my prayers.  My strength is my salvation.


   


Posted: 25 April 2016 07:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]   

   
 
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Yinyang
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duplicate post deleted
 
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Being philosophically and behaviorally consistent is hard work.
Examining the origins of your beliefs is even harder.

And it did not come to pass.


   


Posted: 25 April 2016 07:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]   

   
 
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Yinyang
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TheDogLady:
Clarity:
 I think/hope you are right. I am absolutely sure that in several years the musings of Boyd K. Packer and Dallin H. Oaks will be the "they were a product of their time" people. It will be interesting. My best friend who I told about this said, "all I keep thinking is how at the last days even the "very elect" will be deceived. I can only surmise she meant me. I don't think I am "very elect"
 
Hi DogLady,
 
The "very elect will be deceived" is a thought stopping technique AKA brainwashing.
 
Here's a response that you can keep in your back pocket:
 
You could reply with a question, "If the very elect are deceived then who will be left?"
 
You will probably see the smoke come out her ears from the mental exertion. 
 
    
 
 Signature
Being philosophically and behaviorally consistent is hard work.
Examining the origins of your beliefs is even harder.

And it did not come to pass.


   


Posted: 26 April 2016 03:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]   

   
 
former victim
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Apparently,  organized religions fill or provide for needs. When the needs are not fulfilled, provided for, or met, they wane or diminish in influence. People with acquired knowledge often learn to live without any in their life. 

   


Posted: 26 April 2016 04:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]   

   
 
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guywithearrings50
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bradspencer:
Nothing will happen to the Church.  That is the sadistic beauty of "continual" revelation in a hierarchy.  They can change anything they want, whenever they want, and the VAST majority of the sheeple TBMs will eat it up, and the social mormons stay in for family reasons or ease of living in the morridor.  
 
Just consider the sheer volume of changes to LDS doctrines that have happened over the last 170 years.  Joseph Smith or Brigham Young would not recognize this thing - would probably condemn them all as apostate - because it has changed so much.  Yet, the membership stays.
 
Blacks with the priesthood after 150 years of saying it was impossible - No effect.
Polygamy changes when it is in LDS scripture and the pronouncement of "prophets" that to not practice it would condemn the people - Slightest effect.
Continual rewrites of the Book of Mormon - No effect. 
Changes to the unchangable temple ceremonies - No effect.
Deliberate de-emphasis of Joseph Smith - No effect. 
Blatent lies on television from GBH - No effect.
 
 I can go on and on, but Mormons believe because they WANT to believe it.  It makes them feel special.  It supplies basic human emotional needs to those who do not want to face facts.   Look at Roman Catholicism - at least 1700 years in existence with doctrinal changes that make Mormons look like zealot defenders of their religion.  Yet, there are over a billion of them.  They very nearly rewrote their entire religious practice with Vatican II, yet nothing changed.  Because Catholics WANT to believe or they are social Catholics.
 
 
 this is so true, this is why it's so hard to convince them that the church is false. They want to believe and and NEED to believe it. That's true about feeling special as well. Mormon certainly feel special. I know I did when I attended. Like everyone who wasn't a member was just a little bit "thick" like 'why don't they get it?"
 


   


Posted: 26 April 2016 04:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]   

   
 
Clarity
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Matter Unorganized:
 
The Utah church would never do anything which could result in a large loss of membership. If they did, it would have to be so gradual that members would not notice unless they were paying attention. But how could the members not notice if the church dropped the claim that the BoM was true, or that the BoA was not true? What if the church dropped the endowment, or finally dropped the designation as God's one true church? These things would not bode well.
 
Good point, Matter.  bradspencer74 and other also made very good points.
 
In any scenario, the active membership of the LDS church is almost certainly going to continue to shrink.  The church may go the Scientology route, building more and more vast wealth while its active membership becomes even smaller and more "elect".  Or the church may continue to change its teachings like it has regularly done so in the past to become more and more mainstream.
 
Based on the last 185 years of then-unthinkable changes in Mormon belief, we should expect to see more unthinkable changes in the future.  Just look at the last few decades...  A few decades ago, the Book of Abraham was translated by Joseph Smith; now it is merely inspired.  A few decades ago, Native Americans were super-special Jewish people; now they merely may have inter-married with a few.  A few decades ago, blacks would absolutely never gain the priesthood; now they're featured in Mormon advertisements.  A few decades ago, the endowment was like a blood oath and blood atonement was a thing; now...not so much. 
 
Today it seems somewhat-unthinkable that the LDS church would give up its "homosexuality is a grievous sin" stance--but as more and more families accept their homosexual children and cousins this too may become a palatable and "inspired" doctrine change.  Other doctrines like "god was once a man; one day we may become gods" are already on their way out.
 
As Matter eloquently stated, the only three unassailable beliefs that will be "cause a civil war" hard to shake are the "one true church" tenets: that Joseph Smith was a prophet; that the Book of Mormon is scripture like the bible; and that the mainstream LDS Church is God's "one true church". 
 
In the end, the LDS church will decide to either follow in the footsteps of the Smiths' LDS branch (RLDS) and become mainstream...or maintain a more Scientology-like path.  Based on the last few decades of dropping core tenets to become more mainstream combined with the vast wealth-building which is reducing the church's dependence on tithing funds, shrinking and remaining the "one true church" is a very valid option.  But another more Mormony option is to drop more of the controversial and discriminatory beliefs, reduce expenses by combining churches and temples into single buildings (like was already done in New York City), and maintain only the minimal set of beliefs to inspire member acquisition (missionary work) and growth-revenue generation (tithing).


   


Posted: 26 April 2016 08:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]   

   
 
Free2Live
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Clarity:
Matter Unorganized:
 
The Utah church would never do anything which could result in a large loss of membership. ... snip ...
 
Good point, Matter.  bradspencer74 and other also made very good points.
  
In any scenario, the active membership of the LDS church is almost certainly going to continue to shrink.  The church may go the Scientology route, building more and more vast wealth while its active membership becomes even smaller and more "elect".  Or the church may continue to change its teachings like it has regularly done
 so in the past to become more and more mainstream.
... circumcised for space ... 
  But another more Mormony option is to drop more of the controversial and discriminatory beliefs, reduce expenses by combining churches and temples into single buildings (like was already done in New York City), and maintain only the minimal set of beliefs to inspire member acquisition (missionary work) and growth-revenue generation (tithing).
 
 I could buy into this propensity with regard to the older generations dieing off leaving behind younger ideas that would then need to be targetted for the donation base. As long as the 'cradle to grave' tithe paying TBM's are the majority there will be no change on a large scale.
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One is as committed into testimony as much as they pay into the belief in dollars, time, talent and energy. Afterall, it has to be true once you have signed the lifetime subscription and you have a track record to defend.


   


Posted: 28 April 2016 07:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]   

   
 
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Tessa
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Invisible would be good.
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin


   


Posted: 29 April 2016 10:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]   

   
 
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Smitty
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They need to open the financial records and show everyone where the money really goes.  Also, either totally dump the BoM or like was mentioned before admit that it is a work of fiction and let the people decide whether to believe it or not.  If they would accept the Bible as truth then they would have a better chance of survival, although this country seems to be slowly steering away from religion as the millennials get older.  One other thing they need to do is get some fresh blood in the leadership and quit making the next old guy the president.  They need to stop making it all based on senority and start actually electing the leadership like the RC church does.
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What does God need with a starship -Capt. James T. Kirk


   


Posted: 09 May 2016 07:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]   

   
 
CUtekittypUnk
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I know this has already been mentioned but I also think that eventually the brethren will cave to public pressure and reverse their stance on same sex marriage. i seem to recall reading that the earlier saints Joseph Smith had himself sealed to other men as friends. i think that is viable. why cant we be sealed to friends for eternity. some friends are better than biological family anyway. 
I also think that eventually women will have the priesthood or priestesshood or what have you.
It would be nice if they could start having actually nice sunday school classes where you can have a discussion without fear of being called apostate.
I would also like to see Priesthood and Relief Society actually being an organization comitted to community service projects voted on by individual wards and branches.
And lastly, missionary service should be totally voluntary, not expected from the young men, and it should again be more service oriented (habitat for humanity) kind of stuff, and you should be allowed to call your folks whenever you want to, after all,  you are there willingly paying your own way and no one should treat you like they do now
 
seeing its not likely to change for the better for quite a while , i am grateful that i wised up ahead of time and got out when i did.


   


Posted: 09 May 2016 10:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]   

   
 
leftasteen
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I believe the Church will change with the times.
 
 
They will automate tithing with a goal of 100% electronic funds Tranfers.
 
 
They will design buildings less for specific purpose, with more consideration to rental generation and/or re-sale. This will be encouraged by granting residual cash flow percentages to the Mormon Contractors that built them.
 
 
The Lord will reveal a two-year tithing credit for each baptized new member for which the applying member is deemed to be the "procurring cause" using a protocol similar to the National Realtors Association rules. If this does not improve recruitment sufficiently, an "Additional Wife Credit" will be considered for men, and a "Special Exception Priesthood Annointing" for women who reach certain Baptism and Subsequent Tithing acquisition milestones.
 
 
They will continue to build web-based assets, and revenue streams:
 
 They will seek on-line ad revenue from logical sources to better serve the Membership: Phyciatrists, drug counselors, porn-addiction treatment, adoption agencies, anxiety medications..... 
They will reveal a "salvation bit-coin" in which members receive public credit or score points for an online prayer or testimony posting on a members only subscription site
They will partner with Google maps and General Motors to steer more mobile web searches for "church" "synagogue" "mosque" "cathedral" or "chapel" to Mormon locations.
They will offer a fee based service for uploading your church records directly to Kolab, via secure Satellite.  
They will offer a subcription service where members can see their monthy salvation score, and a current projected estimate of ultimate Kindom attainment.  (Discounts for family subscriptions of course)  This will include an appeal process for changing/correcting attendance, sinning, and forgiveness records (with an administrative fee)
The One-true Church will be fine, with an improving Standard and Poors rating, more certified Celestial Kindom Candidates, and will be the first Church listed on the New York Stock Exchange.
 
 

 


   


            
 
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Conspiracy theory time… Was JS murder a setup  
Posted: 07 May 2016 08:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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OK, time for a little conspiracy theory.  I been thinking a little and I wonder if the JS assassination was a setup from the beginning. Perhaps the people were starting to waver and beginning to see him as the  he really was.  He could have conspired with the leaders of the "mob" to have them storm the jail and take him out.  Why else would he bring a gun.  He could show that he put up a fight but he did not succeed.  The brother getting killed could have been purely accidential (or maybe he was in on it too).  Maybe I'm crazy but I wonder if anyone else at some point thought that this could be a possibility.
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Posted: 07 May 2016 05:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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LostInParadise
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I find myself thinking that he knew there'd be trouble and that he thought they'd get out of it once again. But this time there were too many angry and scared people to escape, and his fellow masons didn't stick up for him. Heck, he might have thought he was fairly invincible by that point. 
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Posted: 08 May 2016 02:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
former victim
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Could have been a set up, but based on what I have learned, he underestimated public opinion greatly and that is what put the Great Charlatan down for the count.
 
However, Bring 'em Young, as cunning and ruthless as he appears to have been, should not be ruled out completely, as he did have a lot to gain after all.  


   


Posted: 09 May 2016 08:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Celestial Wedgie
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I have a hard time seeing it as a conspiracy. Joseph Smith was improvising all along, never following much of a script, at least not once he got the Book of Mormon published. Everything else was just happy accidents that he exploited with increasing aplomb. In my view he was more of a master opportunist.
 
As mentioned above, he also gained confidence in his own conniving, probably surprised at what he got away with. I mean, even some of the men who knew him best were willing to pass along their savings accounts, farms, wives, and daughters. Smith must have been half-intoxicated with his capacity to parlay it all to his advantage and aggrandizement.


   


Posted: 09 May 2016 11:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
peace out
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From what I have read I believe there is some indication that he may have been setup by Mormons. I believe “no man knows my history” said something about it.
JS had requested that the Nauvoo legion be called out to protect him but the commander didn’t send troops for some unknown reason. Considering that JS was the mayor, general of the legion, note to mention king of all the earth, the delay is suspicious.
Also the fact that Brigham Young made it back so fast after the death of the prophet causes me to question his involvement. BY also stalled the naming of a successor for some time and from what I remember set about removing his rivals from the running.  Including From what I remember JS brother who was likely poisoned (died of mysterious circumstances.) 


   


            
 
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Why we have to be nice…  
Posted: 05 May 2016 05:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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I think I've figured out why non-mormons put up with do much sh*t here in Utah. The mormons try to make crappy laws about alcohol every year.
 
To me, it's like getting a ransom letter. Damn right you're gonna act nice to the kidnappers till your beer is safely in hand. 
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Posted: 05 May 2016 06:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Mormons love to quote JS "Moderation in all things" but seldom observe it. Everything seems to be so black and white.
 
Alcohol: No, none, ever, even in medicine or cooked foods, avoid everything that may include an alcoholic beverage. 
 
Sex; No, none, ever, solo or partner sex, until you get married. And don't you dare consent to being raped, you're better off dead. 
 
Coffee or Tea; no, none, ever...those evil drinks will keep you out of heaven.  
 
Tithing: 100% or you'll burn at the second coming, and you won't be able to go to the clubhouse to shake other peoples hands.
 
Callings: You must always say yes, you should never turn down a calling from the Lord.
 
Critical Thinking: No, never, ever. No evil speaking of the Lord's annointed, and remember, you must always follow your leaders even if they are wrong.
 
Meeting attendance: Even if you're on vacation you should seek out a ward to attend. Cut your weekend outings in half and always come back for your meetings.
 
Scripture reading; every day, or even more often.
 
Prayers; every day, or more often.
 
Compliance is the only word they know.
 
But to your point, they do hold us hostage. They don't understand drinking because they don't want to see moderation. If you take one drink you're drunk, unable to make rational decisions.   Everyone has their limits, and the only way to find those limits to experiement and be honest with yourself, and hold yourself accountable; thing that mormons can't grasp.  
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Posted: 06 May 2016 04:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Quartersawn  --  SEX  --  after you are married make sure you follow the guidelines for appropriate/acceptable sexual behavior found in the MORMON HANDBOOK FOR APPROPRIATE AND ACCEPTABLE MARITAL SEXUAL BEHAVIOR. 

   


Posted: 06 May 2016 07:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Love the quote from Epicurus. It was that very idea that took me on a journey of discovery and freedom. 

   


Posted: 06 May 2016 08:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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"Fun" is the gateway drug to hell and outer darkness!
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Posted: 09 May 2016 08:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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maynardg:
Quartersawn  --  SEX  --  after you are married make sure you follow the guidelines for appropriate/acceptable sexual behavior found in the MORMON HANDBOOK FOR APPROPRIATE AND ACCEPTABLE MARITAL SEXUAL BEHAVIOR.
 
 
And here we witness the sacred origins of the phrase, "Every member a missionary [position]."
 


   


Posted: 09 May 2016 09:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
leftasteen
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"Beer is proof there is a God, and he loves us."
 
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Posted: 10 May 2016 07:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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Celestial Wedgie:
maynardg:
Quartersawn  --  SEX  --  after you are married make sure you follow the guidelines for appropriate/acceptable sexual behavior found in the MORMON HANDBOOK FOR APPROPRIATE AND ACCEPTABLE MARITAL SEXUAL BEHAVIOR.
 
 
And here we witness the sacred origins of the phrase, "Every member a missionary [position]."
 
Thank you, CW. I read PostMormon and get an example of David O. McKay's wry sense of humor. Who would have guessed?
 


   


Posted: 10 May 2016 08:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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Celestial Wedgie
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Brother of Jared:
Celestial Wedgie:
maynardg:
Quartersawn  --  SEX  --  after you are married make sure you follow the guidelines for appropriate/acceptable sexual behavior found in the MORMON HANDBOOK FOR APPROPRIATE AND ACCEPTABLE MARITAL SEXUAL BEHAVIOR.
 
 
And here we witness the sacred origins of the phrase, "Every member a missionary [position]."
 
Thank you, CW. I read PostMormon and get an example of David O. McKay's wry sense of humor. Who would have guessed?
 
  Thanks! Anything to promote the sacred words of the inspired Brethren! 
 


   


            
 
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Jeff Holland in Tempe "furious with people who leave"
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The future of Mormonism?
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"Empathy Is The Opposite of Utopia" a Possible Explanation for Mormon Empathy Deficit
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I never got an answer
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October 16-18
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Financial Report for 2011 to Date

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Twin Falls Billboard

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[Sound Thinking]

Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
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Native American DNA
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My apology  
Posted: 10 May 2016 06:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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In my last few months of my mission my brother was just leaving for his. He was coming to the same country, I was so proud. With just 1 month to go for me I found out that he went home. He had only completed the MTC and then decided to leave. I was "furious". Of course there were times I wanted to go home during my two years but I stuck it out. Why couldn't he. What could he have done that was so bad? When I went home I put a lot of pressure on him. Not once did I empathize or feel anything other than disdain. I would make little comments that would be a subtle dig. If we got in a fight I would always have the ace in the hole that would end it.
 
Now he is a TBM and I am the apostate.
 
It took me leaving the church before I felt actual compassion towards him. Over the last week I was asked what about my time in the church do I regret.
 
I don't regret my mission. (I learned so much there, including the first steps toward leaving)
 
I don't regret being married in the temple (my wife does but I never imagined my perfect wedding.)
 
I don't regret the people I converted (it was Brazil and mostly under 20 so I know that the likelihood of anyone still active is slim.)
 
The only thing I could come up with (other than the 10%) was the way I treated my little brother. I don't know why he came home still to this day but it doesn't matter. I never considered that he came home for psychological reasons but now I worry that is the reason. If that was why I can't imagine the extra trauma I heaped on him in that fragile state. How selfish and judgmental was I?
 
I took some time to apologize this morning. He came home in 2001 and it took me 14 years and leaving the MORG to finally feel remorse. I hope that in time he can forgive me.
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Posted: 10 May 2016 06:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
leftasteen
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You can't change history, and you are not in control of whether or not your brother forgives you.  
 
You are only in control of things you say and do.
 
I was struck that in your apology post, there was only one other "left the church" issue important enough for you to mention -  Your Temple Marriage.  Ironically, it may have echoed a bit the slight to your brother - your feelings counted, your wife's maybe not as much?
 
It's not to late to do that wedding over.  You can invite your brother.  It won't be perfect, but it could be pretty good. Just a thought. 


   


Posted: 10 May 2016 08:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Kevin2
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leftasteen:
You can't change history, and you are not in control of whether or not your brother forgives you.  
 
You are only in control of things you say and do.
 
I was struck that in your apology post, there was only one other "left the church" issue important enough for you to mention -  Your Temple Marriage.  Ironically, it may have echoed a bit the slight to your brother - your feelings counted, your wife's maybe not as much?
 
It's not to late to do that wedding over.  You can invite your brother.  It won't be perfect, but it could be pretty good. Just a thought. 
 
This post was made because of a conversation that my wife and I had for about 2 hours last night. I asked her if she regretted being baptized (she was 12) or anything else about being a member. I was raised in the church and was programmed to be married in the temple. I had been through the temple 30+ times before getting married. For me the temple ceremony was pretty much what I had expected and prepared for. She went through 1 time and then we were married her second time. We talked about how she grew up with a fantasy of her perfect wedding day. Walking down the isle. I never had those dreams. For me I had my perfect wedding (at the time). It was a really good conversation that we had never had. We've had a lot of those conversations lately as we have been on our way out.
 
It was because of that conversation that I felt the need to dive into regrets and try to make amends to my Brother.
 
I'm trying to be a better husband and father. I'm sure that there are a lot of times in my life where I only thought about myself and not how my wife feels. It is hard to recognize it when it happens. My role models were Joe, BY and modern day prophets. My dad treated my mom like a maid and I always knew I didn't want to see my wife that way. I appreciate your observation because its true and something I want to improve. 
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“And now that you don’t have to be perfect, you can be good.” -John Steinbeck


   


Posted: 10 May 2016 08:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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Celestial Wedgie
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leftasteen, I think you have a wonderful idea there. I often get lost in looking back, but your proposal is the opposite: let's do this right and do it now! It isn't based on showing anyone, not a way of defying a fraudulant church. Instead it's about giving his wife her dream. What a wonderful idea!
 
Kevin2, my wife and I had marriage therapy last night and the therapist did a good job of helping me see something big that I need to change. It's an old behavior left over from the slow death of my first marriage. As much as I'd like to be blameless, I realize that I'm not and I want to make amends when I can.  My insight yesterday was useful that way, something to change from here forward. A genuine apology is also a wonderful way of changing relationship dynamics from this point forward. Thanks for sharing your story and congratulations on having apologized. [The LDS church would do well to follow your example!] 


   


Posted: 10 May 2016 10:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Silver Girl
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That was really touching, thanks for sharing. 
 
SG 
 


   


            
 
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