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Embracing, Not Running From, My Repressive JW Heritage, Finding A Few Things Worth Salvaging
by TMS a day ago 22 Replies latest 11 hours ago   jw experiences
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TMS
TMS a day ago

Yes, we could have been born in an alley in Calcutta or with the physical deformities associated with thalidomide. Instead, we were born into or introduced to a repressive, American, religious cult, that shielded us from the warmongering game of chess, the militaristic boy scouts, fornication-inducing sock hops, the Twist, as well as the Hokey Pokey. We heeded the warnings, avoiding the greedy self-worship associated with masturbation, decadent rock 'n roll and anything preceded by the word "extra-curricular."
Without exaggeration, we, the 50's, 60's, boomer and pre-boomer, non-flag saluting Witness kids grew up with limited social skills, awkward even when politely asked about our strange beliefs. Teachers and school counselors, were, for the most part, puzzled, but respectful, concerned about why we were so obviously, willingly, sabotaging our future, eschewing anything associated with "higher education," little know-it-alls that smugly knew the future so precisely we spoke about it in months, not years.
When, I tried to use my religion as an excuse for not being normal, my sixth grade non-JW friend, Dennis Kuder, said: "We all have our own little holies."
Six years later, an exasperated school counselor asked: "Why doesn't a minister or even a missionary need an education?"
Ironically, many of us, still teenagers, uneducated, but "ministers" with a Selective Service 4D classification to prove it, found ourselves "teaching" in the congregation, especially as pioneers "where the need, not greed, was great." My first big job was that of Theocratic Ministry School Servant. Betwixt and between the "Qualified to Be Ministers" book and the non-yet-released TMS guidebook, we relied on a series of Kingdom Ministry inserts with the new "counseling" points for TMS gurus. Like many young men and women from that era, I actually studied and restudied that shit, memorizing all of it, assimilating all of it, and, admittedly, use the skills to this very day. All of us acquired an undeniable skill set we need not unlearn. I list below just a few.
CONDENSATION: Write out a six minute talk. Now, condense it to a single paragraph, retaining ALL of the main points. Now, try putting all of that into a single sentence. It can be done. A useful skill? Yes, if you're suddenly forced to share your belief or viewpoint or idea in a greatly reduced amount of time.
ESTABLISHING COMMON GROUND: You have SOMETHING in common with everyone else on planet earth, whether a Satanist, nudist, KKK Grand Dragon, pope or ax murderer. Can you figure out what that is?
AUDIENCE CONTACT, USE OF NOTES: We learned that it wasn't a rhythmic scanning of the audience, but speaking to one person for a moment or two, then moving on to another and another. Bill Clinton eventually mastered this "fireside chat" technique. It is the most effective(in my view) form of public speaking. I recently spoke to the University of Texas Board of Regents in this manner, shaming them, reasoning with them about this ultra-rich university system taking control of a much-needed public park in the poorest city in the United States.
This is a small sample of the tiny bit of, yes, "education," we did receive from the WTBS. No, reading the Watchtower and Awake! was no replacement for an actual education. That's total foolishness.
 +7 / -0
stillin
stillin a day ago

I use the skills that I learned from the TMS also. I also overcame my fear of speaking to a group because I felt that I had something worth sharing. It went from that to realizing that I am a worthwhile person, and I do bring something to the table. All I need to do is to think before I speak, work up something coherent and, BAM! I'm speaking to a group of people.
It's a dubious heritage, but it's mine.
 +2 / -0
Giordano
Giordano a day ago

In the late 50's early 60's absolutely no encouragement to graduate HS and get some higher learning. You pioneered or went to Bethel. Even getting a job was preferable to college.
i chose pioneering then went where the need was great. In the small NW PA congregation I became the Ministry School Servant, the Assn't Presiding Minister and for a short while the Bible Study Servant. I gave my one hour public talk all over our circuit and beyond.
However I educated myself by reading as there was no substance in anything related to the Watchtower publications. It was a mess back then and apparently even worse now.
But in all honesty....... I got nothing from being a JW. I was out by the age of 23.
 +3 / -0
Ucantnome
Ucantnome a day ago

 All of us acquired an undeniable skill set we need not unlearn
I didn't

 +1 / -0
baker
baker a day ago

reminds me of when our house burned down, we went thru it to salvage as much as we could, but as we looked at it all, it brought back good memories, but it was better to just bulldoze it all and start over...
 +1 / -0
TMS
TMS a day ago

Yes, stillin, a "dubious heritage." When I used the word "heritage" I was mindful of the 1967 black and white Watchtower aimed at young people. Circuit Overseers had the film for about a year and then it was sort of available to the congregations if you went through the hoops to get it. Longtime District Overseer Eugene Brandt's wife Blossom also used the word "heritage" in her life story published in the Watchtower. I recall at the time nearly gagging over her word choice.
Girodono, you got "nothing" from being a JW? I respect that viewpoint too. You had the good sense, "fortune" to get out at 23. How can I not envy you for that as I wasted a half century or more in the cult, then spent a dozen more years reliving my life in dreams.
My wife and I compounded, extended the misery, by exposing our now 44 year old son to the same limitations, hindrances and stifling of his potential.
 +4 / -0
TMS
TMS a day ago

Ucantnome, it was presumptuous of me to speak for "all of us."
baker, whenever I'm tempted to bulldoze things over, I realize that I'm an ex-JW. I was actually raised as one and can't change my history, early training and influences. What I've tried to consciously discard is the judgementalism, the silly beliefs, prophetic types and other bullshit, the concept of "Almighty God Jehovah," that Prince referred to at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ceremony.
 +2 / -0
Pete Zahut
Pete Zahut a day ago

As far as what it was like for JW kids in the past, you really summed it all up really well. I too often wonder if I did this well after growing up in a Cult-like religion, where would I'd be if I had spent as much time in activities that would have not only have given me more employment choices but also made me a more rounded person and would have enriched my life.
My twenty something son is almost done with his Degree but laments at how behind he is experience wise as well as socially compared to his contemporaries and my wife and I feel badly for not having awakened long before we did and possibly sparing him this problem.

Like any of the experiences we have in life we can extract good and bad aspects from them and make the best of things....play the had your dealt.  Even those in Nazi concentration camps must have come away from the experience with some skill that would give them an edge in the rest of their life. (strength, endurance, appreciation etc) . Even so, there are plenty of better and more pleasant ways for them to have acquired those particular skill and for us to have acquired the ones we may have gotten from being JW's.
As a former JW, you can choose to regret your past and lament the lost time or look for the positive aspects about your experience and play them up in your current life. With both of those choices, you are still a former JW but with one of them you get to feel a whole lot better about things.

 +4 / -0
millie210
millie210 a day ago

I loved your title and first post TMS.
One trap I think it is easy to fall in to is "if not for this, than I could have/would have______ " (fill in blank with an idealized situation).
The fact is, the world is full of people who never reach their potential, get that degree, make their first million, travel the world etc.
One of the things I have said to myself is who is to say that I would have done XYZ if only I was not a withess?
I have many worldly family members who are living the average life. Religion didnt stunt them, they just are where they are.
It really helps me not to feel bitter about the wasted years as a JW.
I also learned a solid skill set as to how to talk to anyone about anything and I know more about ancient Jewish history than I suspect I will ever need! LOL
So I embrace where I came from and what I can carry forward now that I have left the JWs behind (which is my end goal....leave them far and permanently behind) I have met many wonderful, sincere people and carry those memories with me also.
I remember reading a fascinating paper on the process of intuition that talked about how people who had grown up on the streets of Calcutta tested amazingly high in intuitive skills. The conclusion was that living in a state of adversity had helped them hone intuitive skills as a matter of successful survival.
Not everyones situation is that dire but it illustrates the fact that good (or shall we say useful?) can come from bad.
I am in a long slow fade in part because I have a business that employs some JWs and neither they nor I want to damage what we see as a good thing we have going employer/employee wise.
That gives me even more reason to adopt a philosophical mindset that embodies grace and gentle, humorous acceptance of all that has gone before.
I am not quite there but I will be, because that is my goal.

 +5 / -0
GrreatTeacher
GrreatTeacher a day ago

I learned to tolerate lots of boredom at the meetings.
I've since unlearned that skill.
 +3 / -0

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Embracing, Not Running From, My Repressive JW Heritage, Finding A Few Things Worth Salvaging
by TMS a day ago 22 Replies latest 11 hours ago   jw experiences
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TMS
TMS a day ago

enjoyed your points, millie210 and Pete Zahut. Yes, we get a unique lesson from our experiences, whatever they were, Nazi concentration camps or the streets of Calcutta or something in between.
Would I have learned more as a freshman at the University of Washington than being a 17 year old on the streets of Brownsville, Texas, with Spanish by far the predominant language? Imagine the cultural shock of being dropped off 8 AM on Saturday morning on the main business street, then picked up at noon in what could just have well been Mexico City, with loud music, business owner's who actually cared about religion in my face. Later that week, I was at the Port of Brownsville boarding ships from Norway, Liberia and England, talking "the truth."
Maybe, my eventual wife and I shouldn't have agreed to move to central Arkansas when I was 21 and she 25 where I replaced a pedophile Congregation Servant. Again, cultural shock, working for minimum wage at a chicken plant and wood product factory under unsafe conditions, meeting a wide variety of folk, unsavory and savory.
What about our ten years as basically the only whites at the last unsegregated black congregation in Little Rock, Arkansas? Do we not have some insight few have experienced?
None of this is meant to undersell the harm done by the high control, dumbass religious cult known as Jehovah's Witnesses. I can actually agree with the uneducated, illiterate woman I met in the cotton field of Carden Bottoms, Arkansas in 1970. She tried to prove to me that "Jehovah was the last church in the Bible." She was right as rain, but couldn't prove it flipping through her Bible upside down.
 +3 / -0
GrreatTeacher
GrreatTeacher a day ago

I was one of a very small group of white people attending a Historically Black University.
Yes, it was culture shock in many ways, and yes I learned a hell of a lot, as well as earning my degree.
I am way more conversant in differing points of view now.
 +2 / -0
Ucantnome
Ucantnome a day ago

I'm quite good at finding scriptures in the NWT and handing out leaflets

 +1 / -0
TMS
TMS a day ago

Ucantnome,"I'm quite good at finding scriptures in the NWT and handing out leaflets"
have you ever considered full-time service?
 +3 / -0
wannaexit
wannaexit a day ago

All those little skills are nothing compared to the damage this organization has done to many of us .
 +2 / -0
TMS
TMS a day ago

wannaexit, "All those little skills are nothing compared to the damage this organization has done to many of us"


touche'

 +1 / -0
prologos
prologos a day ago

As a potential loser, Beta-Omega male, without the wt conditioning [them] I would have never been considered by the tall, slim, educated females that considered me worthy company in my early wt years, and "jack-pot" (my worldly sister's evaluation) wives. So, it was good training, but resources draining. lessons learned for the future? what future? Freedom from false hopes. and embracing the embraceable.
 +2 / -0
dropoffyourkeylee
dropoffyourkeylee a day ago

Hmmm not a whole lot of value...
learned to give a speech without being nervous.
Learned to stand up for an unpopular viewpoint
learned to identify with the minority
read the bible thru numerous times
learned first hand what a cult mentality is
learned how to live on beans
Can't think of any more.
 +2 / -0
just fine
just fine a day ago

I won't say I have embraced my JW past but I have made peace with it. I don't get mad about the things I might have missed out on, and try to experience and accomplish as much as I can from this point forward. What a ride it's been! Mostly good, sometimes scary, but love being free to be me.
 +2 / -0
Ucantnome
Ucantnome 12 hours ago

have you ever considered full-time service?
yes.
the theocratic ministry school wasn't something i would ever have joined had i not felt threatened and i never saw any benefit to me or those i listened to in my opinion.
we had a discussion once with my parents as to weather it was them or the truth as to why we turned out fine. my father felt it was him.
i suppose im trying to think of a benefit. maybe i wouldn't have been a christian but maybe i would
 

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Embracing, Not Running From, My Repressive JW Heritage, Finding A Few Things Worth Salvaging
by TMS a day ago 22 Replies latest 11 hours ago   jw experiences
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rebel8
rebel8 11 hours ago

I did learn public speaking skills in the TMS, but nothing I could have learned by taking a class or joining Toastmasters. Those things would have resulted in better skill sets--how to speak properly without use of coercive mind control techniques.
Let's face the facts here. The only reason we had this learning experience is because it was a side effect of being in a dangerous evangelistic cult, not because we went into it seeking public speaking skills.
To use an illustration(TM), it isn't as though Jonestown survivors go around thinking, "Oh well, at least I learned how to make Kool Aid like a boss. For that I'm grateful."
Sometimes I feel like Debbie Downer on these "glass half full" threads, and maybe others think so too, but I can't help (edit) it, my jw experience was overwhelmingly negative--that's just a fact. I did not walk away from it with positives--and this is my perspective after being separated from it for 25 years.

It is what it is. Yes, we did learn public speaking skills, but it was not done properly or with a good motive.

 +1 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 11 hours ago

There are a few pet peeves I have with this 'religious' org; however, I also recognize there's much to be salvaged in living one's life in an orderly, wholesome manner.
Once some topics are reformed, such as the shunning, baptism of minors, monthly reporting of time/activities, frowning on higher education, I'd probably be okay with all other minor quirks around these WTBTS parts.
DY

 
Xanthippe
Xanthippe 11 hours ago

I learned that it wasn't a rhythmic scanning of the audience, but speaking to one person for a moment or two, then moving on to another and another.
This is a totally male perspective. I was not allowed to talk to the audience- ' I do not permit a woman to teach '.


You have SOMETHING in common with everyone else on planet earth
I agree with this. We all have more similarities than differences, but the WTS don't really believe this. Finding common ground is simply a strategy to lure people into the cult. They think the world is filled with evil, not ordinary humans just trying to live a happy life as best they can.
Yes I agree we could have been born physically disabled or terribly poor in a developing country. There are so many ways to have a very difficult start in life. Very true. Bellyaching about a cult upbringing instead of moving forward is pointless.

 +1 / -0

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Questions for JW's from Christians
by Perry a day ago 25 Replies latest 3 hours ago   jw friends
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Perry
Perry a day ago

I'm thinking of printing a tract with some simple but thought-provoking questions for people to use when JW's come to their doors.


Questions from Christians

Bible-believing Christians appreciate the moral values of Jehovah’s Witnesses in their communities but have several questions that somehow seem to escape us when we are caught unexpectedly at our doors. This pamphlet is designed to encourage Christians to ask Jehovah’s Witnesses questions about their beliefs so that a better understanding of the bible may emerge.

Question # 1: Bible-believing Christians believe in a “paradise earth”. However, since this term is not found in the bible, most people simply refer to this future condition of earth as the “Millennium Reign” of Jesus Christ. Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses still seek to witness to Christians about the Millennium Reign when it is already believed upon?

Question # 2:  In the New World Translation, Matthew 26: 27-27 reads: “And taking a cup, he offered thanks and gave it to them, saying: “Drink out of it, all of you, for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins.”
If the emblems of the Lords Supper are partaken of to represent the forgiveness of sins that is offered in a covenant with God as stated above, how do Jehovah’s Witness get their sins forgiven since they do not partake of the bread and wine at the Lord’s Supper and are largely not professing to be a member of the New Covenant?

Question # 3: Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that the New Covenant is for government positions instead of “for forgiveness of sins” as stated in the New World Translation?

Question # 4: Ephesians 1: 13 in the New World translation reads: “But you also hoped in him after you heard the word of truth, the good news about your salvation.”
Since the New Covenant was open to anyone who wanted their sins forgiven since the time of the apostles, how can this “good news about your salvation” offered by Jesus in the New Covenant now be closed to new believers without incurring the curse found in Galatians 1: 8 -  “However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed”? (NWT)
 +2 / -0
nowwhat?
nowwhat? a day ago

Can't argue with that reasoning
 
baker
baker a day ago

Add Matt 15:17 for an answer to the abstinence from blood. It pretty much states that nothing can defile a man that enters into his mouth.
 
Divergent
Divergent a day ago

"Explain your belief in 1914 to me using ONLY the Bible"
That should make them sweat!
 +1 / -0
Perry
Perry a day ago

Excellent suggestions. The topics could be numerous. But, since Christians are a special target of Witnesses, I thought that salvation would be good topic to limit it to.... from the very group they are seeking to convert.
If we are not saved, we are not going to be around to discover the answers to the peripheral questions. I wished more Christians had asked me questions like these when I was at their doors once upon a time.

 +2 / -0
Simon
Simon a day ago

Questions for JW's from Christians: "why are we all such annoying dumb fuckers?"
Seriously, your thinking is as arrogant and flawed as theirs - you have the truth and the right to decide right and wrong. Just like you thought you had their truth when you were a JW, now you think you have it when you're not. See a pattern here? An arrogant sense of self-importance.
JWs have as much claim to the label "christian" as anyone else does so the premise of your question is fundamentally flawed because of the assumptions it makes.
 +8 / -3
prologos
prologos a day ago

I gave it a "like", because JWs at the doors have to be confronted with ready ammunition against their bible twisting balled up, inbred teachings. After all, they go to the doors of mostly Christians proclaiming "we are right you are wrong", yet there is no scriptural support for their " salvation without partaking", work for a thousand years doctored doctrine. now, if snakes really talked we would need salvation.
 +1 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy a day ago

You're questions are to complex. Keep it simple  like posted above about blood and Jesus said nothing entering defiles a man can also be elaborated with Mathew 12 were he says 'we desire mercy not sacrifice'. It can also be brought out that in human breast milk there's roughly 1 million white blood cells per drop.
 +2 / -0
Simon
Simon a day ago

If christianity has proven anything it's that you can make a holy book justify whatever belief you want it to. There is no absolutely defined bible belief, let alone agreed on, it's ALL interpretation so every version is equally as valid.
Q2. Everything Jesus said to his disciples in those scriptures only applied to them. There you go. Off the top of my head I removed the basis for your argument. All you then have is "no, I think it didn't". Well, have a nice day then ...
Now, why do you need to convert anyone? Does ... does it say to do it in the bible? Where?
 +2 / -0
baker
baker 21 hours ago

give out 10 bibles to 10 unknowing goat herders and you'll get 10 different religion s
 +3 / -0

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Questions for JW's from Christians
by Perry a day ago 25 Replies latest 3 hours ago   jw friends
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smiddy
smiddy 20 hours ago

Isn`t their over 40,000 different Christian sects already ?
smiddy
 
Carol1111
Carol1111 18 hours ago

Thanks for this, Perry. I am always looking for questions to ask the JW's who come to my door.
I also have a question:
Jesus said that we were to take the bread and wine in memory of him until he returns.
If he returned in 1914, then why do some JW's still take the bread and wine now?
If he did not return, then when and how will he return to stop the need for remembering?

 +2 / -0
prologos
prologos 18 hours ago

Smiddy: "Isn`t their over 40,000 different Christian sects already ? I have not counted, but members of every one of them should be shown how wrong they are, with effective tools. particularly those cults that insist on being in a militant attack mode. I always had fun with mormon young elders.

 +1 / -0
Diogenesister
Diogenesister 17 hours ago

Carol1111 what an excellent point I had never thought of that.
Perry Good idea. There are already some web pages etc directed at JWs and written by Christians but something written by an exJW is going to understand their way of thinking that much better. I think a leaflet specifically dealing with the blood issue from a Christian perspective would be really beneficial too....its about saving lives after all.
 +1 / -0
Diogenesister
Diogenesister 16 hours ago

As to the question why convert a Christian from one form of Christianity to another, there are 3 answers.
1. Cults are damaging.
2. Deaths from the blood issue
3. Shunning loved ones
There are 3 good ones to be going on with...whether you are religious or not.
 +1 / -0
Sugar Shane
Sugar Shane 16 hours ago

As to the question why convert a Christian from one form of Christianity to another, there are 3 answers.
1. Cults are damaging.
2. Deaths from the blood issue
3. Shunning loved ones
True.
I feel much more at ease hanging out with my Methodist (vs JW) coworker because:
a) he's at ease with me as well (I'm not some 'worldly' barbarian).
b) the topic of conversation doesn't revolve around all things Methodist, and he's not pushing me into a 'Bible study.'
c) he probably doesn't shun his daughter for marrying a Baptist.
d) if there's a city-wide flood or other disaster, I know that his group (among others) will offer me food & shelter., Wish I could say the same thing about JWs.
JWs are a cult. Anything you can do to get the wheels turning in their individual minds is fine, as long as you don't stoop to their level and make it 'my way, or the high-way.' But, that's the problem. What you, I, or the Methodist fella might see as an open, two-way discussion about faith, a JW (in my experience) sees as a one-sided battle of the wills. They've always talked AT ME, not WITH ME. So frustrating.
 
OneGenTwoGroups
OneGenTwoGroups 16 hours ago

If you are Christian and feel the need to set a JW straight, start of with some common footing by establishing what all you agree on:
1.The Bible is God's Word
2.Homosexuality is an abomination
3.Women should know their place in the family and at church
4.Teens should feel guilty about masturbating
5.The human race is only 6,000 years old


After that you can start splitting hairs about how drinking fake human blood ought to be done.
 +1 / -0
TheLiberator
TheLiberator 15 hours ago
Another question: Can you show me from the scriptures, that baptism is dedication and involves making sure you are qualified through questioning?
 +1 / -0
Ding
Ding 15 hours ago

There's a 2007 booklet entitled Answering Jehovah's Witnesses with Questions by Philip DelRe which does something similar. You can find it on Amazon.
If you do one yourself, I suggest you include:
1. How to minimize the risk that this will come across as persecution and drive the JWs further into the borg
2. What to do if the JW says, "I'm glad you're interested in the Bible. Those are great questions. We'll be happy to come back and explain what we believe and why through a Bible study right in your own home. It's free!"

 
nowwhat?
nowwhat? 15 hours ago

Hey Perry keep it simple and focused on salvation. You can alway to a series of tracts. Just like the jws do
 

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Questions for JW's from Christians
by Perry a day ago 25 Replies latest 3 hours ago   jw friends
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stillin
stillin 15 hours ago

2. What to do if the JW says, "I'm glad you're interested in the Bible. Those are great questions. We'll be happy to come back and explain what we believe and why through a Bible study right in your own home. It's free!"
my answer to this is simply that my interest is mostly casual. If there is a God in Heaven, He wouldn't be expecting me to be responsible for sorting out which Organization is "truly" His own. In other words, I believe that God is compassionate and merciful. He wants us to enjoy life, be kind, be good neighbors. Jumping through hoops is not on the list of things that God would expect of us.

 
aboveusonlysky
aboveusonlysky 14 hours ago

3 questions about JW's damaging teachings.
1) Lev 11:39,40 Why did the mosaic law have a provision for eating blood?
2) Mark 2:16 Does Jesus eating with 'sinners' contradict Paul's counsel at 1 Cor 5:11?
3) Rom 13:1 Would you agree that obedience to the superior authorities must include reporting serious crimes (like child abuse)?
Then let them do the research.
 +1 / -0
Vanderhoven7
Vanderhoven7 11 hours ago

Questioning on salvation issues is wise. For starters:
Where does the Bible teach 2 classes of Christians? that the great crowd do not have a heavenly hope, began being called early in the 20th century, are not anointed or Spirit begotten, belong to an organization with headquarters in NY, subject to men appointed in 1919? Do John 10:16 or Rev.7 inform us of any of this?
BTW Jesus did not say "Gentiles" in John 10:16 because He knew the reaction He would get. Paul's testimony ended with that delightful word.
 
Perry
Perry 9 hours ago

That's what Ima thinkin Vanderhoven.
JW's come to Christians homes preaching a teaching that Christians already believe, dismissing a contract from God to get us there, ignoring the fact that the "great crowd" are wearing white robes signifying their righteous standing by means of the covenant they refuse.
(Rev. 7:14 - These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood [covenant] of the Lamb.)
Every Christian on this planet should be able to point out this nonsensicalness.
 
Greybeard
Greybeard 3 hours ago

I agree with Crazyguy. your questions are too complex. Keep it sweet short and simple. Say something like, "May your 1914 generation rest in peace and I pray God goes easy on you poor fooled false prophets who traverse land and sea closing the door to heaven in mens faces." and close the door in there face so they can not reply. This is the only way they will think because all of this is a game. They are programed to beat you at this game. They do not care what you say and they will not read what you write. But you say this and close the door in there face, they won't forget your words and they won't stop thinking about it. They are programed to reply, programed to win debates, don't let them.
Thats my 2 cents
My favorite scripture to share with a JW is Isaiah 44:25-26, "I am frustrating the signs of the empty talkers,*
And I am the One who makes diviners act like fools;+The One confounding the wise menAnd turning their knowledge into foolishness;+26  The One making the word of his servant come trueAnd completely fulfilling the predictions of his messengers;+ NWT
Now tell them to repeat after you 3 times
completely fulfilling the predictions of his messengers;
completely fulfilling the predictions of his messengers;
completely fulfilling the predictions of his messengers;
Whats wrong with this picture? Its 2016, breaker breaker, anybody got a copy? They are under a hypnotic spell. Hard to break



 
Perry
Perry 3 hours ago

Well said Greybeard!
About the only door I remember was when a lady pointed out to me that Christians believe in the paradise earth, they just call it the Millennium Reign.
I walked away wondering why I was out in field service that morning. Looking back, that was the first crack in the edifice for me.
I will work on simplification. Thanks for the rest in peace line on the 1914 generation. I think I will work that in somehow.
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Something you won't see on JW.org ... They discourage music education
by Greybeard a day ago 11 Replies latest 5 hours ago   jw friends
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Greybeard
Greybeard a day ago

 Is this not a Bible command too or only a suggestion?  Psalms 33:32, "Give thanks to Jehovah with the harp; Sing praises to him with a ten-stringed instrument. Sing to him a new song;  Play skillfully on the strings, along with shouts of joy.

&list=PLCD6F28C13A0A9AC2&index=4

 +3 / -0
Pete Zahut
Pete Zahut a day ago

Nope....this video doesn't feed into their belief that all non JW's are evil oriented.
I'm glad you posted this G.Beard, you've inspired me dust off my Ukulele and have a bit of a sing along with the family this evening. Going to have to do this more often... I'd gotten out of the habit of playing and had forgotten how much fun it is.
Thanks !
Pete

 +3 / -0
Greybeard
Greybeard a day ago

Right on Pete! So glad to hear that. It really inspired me too, I am looking for a ukulele now. It is a very happy sounding instrument. Remember when the assemblies had a live orchestra? They took all that away. Why?  Maybe Jehovah prefers recordings.
 +3 / -0
Pete Zahut
Pete Zahut 20 hours ago

My Mom played the Harp in the Orchestra and there was a lot of infighting among the musicians. Who should play what part, who was too loud, who should be asked to leave etc. I think they finally got fed up with the whole thing and went with recordings. Too bad because they weren't as good as the real deal....at least in our area anyway.

 +2 / -0
bats in the belfry
bats in the belfry 18 hours ago

Rather, it's like this:
In video CO16 E 16 No07 1 an obviously talented child is asked by the teacher to attend a program for young gifted musicians playing violin. See what happens . . .





 +1 / -1
hoser
hoser 16 hours ago

It is cruel to children to have them take music lessons for years and then when they get good enough say they can't make a career of it because they will be surrounded by worldly people.
No matter what job they do they will be surrounded by worldly people. Why not do something they enjoy.
 +7 / -0
zeb
zeb 16 hours ago

watch Mari Samuelsen play her Violin, play 4 seasons. If she was a jw we wouldn't have such a wonder to experience.

 +1 / -0
Room 215
Room 215 15 hours ago

Who's doing these? it doesn't seem to be JW.ORG?
 
Pete Zahut
Pete Zahut 12 hours ago

I'm so sickened and angered by that violin video.....I hardly even know what to say.

I hadn't seen this one before but I heard this same crap 40 years ago. "Wait till the New System Pete where you'll have all eternity to pursue your interests." Here I am about to welcome my first grandchild into the world !
◦Was asked to be on the H.S. Swim Team and wrestling team (didn't do it...what fun it would have been. Thankfully I let my Sons do it and it was amazing to see how much confidence it gave them)
◦Wanted to become a Pilot (didn't do it....regret it and may still give it a go)
◦Wanted to become a Dentist (didn't do it and wish I would have...to this day, my Dentist always is surprised by my knowledge of the field, Instead I was sent out into the world to make a living taking any job I could and having to be around some pretty lowlife uneducated people at times.)
◦Skiing (Naughty Pete did it anyway and its been a life long joy)
◦Guitar Lessons (Disobedient Pete took them anyway....another life long joy)
◦Art Lessons ( Spiritually weak Pete took them anyway...another life enriching ability)
◦Architecture (Nope....Good Boy Pete went to Bethel...now I work in the Engineering field and am asked by College educated co workers from foreign countries (Engineers) who barely speak English "Why you no go to College Pete ...you grew up in America....I am from India and I have 2 degrees? " I'm the one who reviews and approves their Engineered drawings yet they make more than me because I don't have a Degree.


What about Prince.....he continued pursuing his dream after becoming a JW and even wore make-up and women's clothes in the process and was considered to be in "Good Standing"???
It's a good thing I don't know what number to call because the phone lines would be on fire and somebody at Bethel would be getting their head bitten off right about now.


 +5 / -0
Greybeard
Greybeard 8 hours ago

I seen it before Pete, recently, if I am not mistaken, I think it was played at the recent convention... Sorry I'm not sure. This post is actually a response to that video after I watched it. Pissed me off too bro. I remember growing up and our big happy song we all would sing together was, "Where Jehovahs Witnesses." Of course we would sing it on the way to the meeting or over and over on a long trip to the convention. At lest we had some fun and joy but what a cult mind bender. "Ours is the God of true prophecy! What he foretells comes to be!" Is there any wonder why they took this hit song out? The "mouthpiece of Jehovah" and "a prophet like Ezekiel" said "The Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 pass away" is a man made lie. What Jehovah Witnesses foretell does NOT come to be! Thats the real history! See Isaiah 44:26 Governing Body. Yes I am talking to you Rabi's who are unquestionable men who claim to be appointed by God.
What we need are some "Real Theocratic Heros" Remember the jingles that went viral among JW's? Thats the power of music. Those are my boys and they are caught in this non-inspired man made mind control group. I taught them like I was taught myself singing, "Were Jehovah's Witnesses" over the mountains and through the woods to paradise we go... You know the story and they are repeating the story. However, I woke up from the dream and they are still singing, "Were Jehovahs Witnesses, what we foretell comes to be." I question my leader, win one appeal, yes I won one for my step son wrongly DFed by a Rabi because he had 4 beers! It was overturned and they disliked me very much to say the least. I start to question more after my mothers death. Now I am cast out as "apostate" and totally cut off from all my family and grand children and I am only 53 years old... Lost it all including a family business I was cut out of.
As many of you know, when you are raised this way, it is not easy to wake up to reality, it is a very strong delusion and a program that runs deep into our very soul. It is who we were. It is like a virus in the back of our heads we constantly fight. This was the "TRUTH" and if you didn't believe it you will be kicked out and die at Armageddon. Fear and guilt are used to control the mind. The fear is of everlasting death if you so much as even question the Devine appointment and direction of the governing body openly. They are totally unquestionable and demand to be called "Rabbi" meaning appointed by God so no questions allowed. The terms Governing Body and Rabi both represent men appointed by God who have unquestionable authority. (Matthew 23:8) Jesus said, "The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses." Has anything changed? They lift themselves up over the "brothers" as Jesus said we all are brothers and demand to be called our teacher because without them we cannot find the truth. The least quoted scripture and greatest warning of all is this one, "1 John 4:1, "Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired statement, but test the inspired statements to see whether they originate with God,  for many false prophets have gone out into the world." As a Jehovah Witness you are expected to except every statement, inspired or not, and obey without question as if it were directly from Moses or Jesus. Questioning and testing is called apostasy and if it were allowed, they would stone you to death. As it is, you are cut off from your family that they hold a strong grip on. I will do all I can with my music to bring the Watchtower walls down and free my family. Governing Body, I for one am looking forward to meeting you. Have some questions if you don't mind I want to ask you all face to face. I have absolutely no fear of you Rabi's. Here is who you got to fear, the one you claim to be the "mouthpiece" of... "However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. And in case you should say in your heart: "How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?" when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it." Deuteronomy 18:20-22
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/jehovahs-prophet.php

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Something you won't see on JW.org ... They discourage music education
by Greybeard a day ago 11 Replies latest 5 hours ago   jw friends
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Greybeard
Greybeard 6 hours ago

Sorry about my typos, "We're Jehovahs Witnesses" If I recall correctly it was taken out of the song book right? I can't keep up, God doesn't change but this religion is like shifting shadows. James 1:17: "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."  Did they put it back in? I know it was song 62, this youtube video shows it as song number 31 so they must have put it back in. What a mind job:

 
Slidin Fast
Slidin Fast 5 hours ago

This video should be circulated widely. Schools, universities the press should have this. The little boy looking longingly into the music room refused to him? Who in their right mind would refuse a kid that break in life.
If this gets into the wild it will be a viral outrage.
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Keeping your sanity while stuck as an active JW
by oldskool a day ago 8 Replies latest a day ago   jw friends
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oldskool
oldskool a day ago

I pass along this advice as a new topic, to get it past one off comments that may not get as much attention.
I exited the Jehovah's Witnesses about a decade ago. Like many, my personal situation felt too restrained to act on my impulse and get out quickly. I took about a year and a half to two years to leave via DA.
I empathize with anybody leaving the Watchtower who finds it difficult to falsify dedication, interest, and belief in both their personal and public life. After mentally migrating from conviction to non belief in the group's divine favor, it can feel extremely humiliating and defeating to publicly demonstrate faithfulness to the group.
That said, I think that the process of surviving "in between" belief and non belief in the group, especially while still remaining active within the community, can be easier navigated by following some of the following hard learned advice:
1. Each jw/ex-jw has their own journey. Don't take on the added burden of feeling the need to speed anybody else's up unless you've determined it to be an absolute last resort necessity (I think spouses fall into this category). This is because...
2. Your conduct probably will have the most lasting impact anyway. From speaking with many ex-jws over the years, a common theme I've always heard is that honest friendship and empathy are what people remember. If you get DF'd at some point down the road, it is harder for people to swallow if they liked you and you always demonstrated intelligence.
3. There are JWs that are descent people. They may believe some absurd stuff, but so did you. Yes, there are also some rather obnoxious JWs. But failing to remember the decent people you know means falling into the good/evil mindset trap. The good people will probably always been good people, and may also stay JW for the rest of their lives. I still see JWs 10 years later that say hi and act like I never left.
4. Do your guts turn into a pretzel every time you go to a meeting, feel like you have to give a comment, or lead a group prayer?  I'm here to let you in on a little secret. It's OK to lie through your teeth, and it's ok to be a hypocrite. The idea of remaining "true to your personal convictions" is a concept the WTS has rammed down your throat. This is their ideal, but it doesn't have to be yours. You are dealing with some extremely heavy psychological forces. Do yourself a favor and learn to lie.
Any by learn to lie, I mean learn to push the words out of your mouth without feeling guilt, shame, or humiliation. Recognize that language is powerful, and by communicating to JWs what they need (not want, need) to hear, you are the one in control. Start brining up 1914 or something else most JWs only casually understand anyway is of no help for you.
5. Don't worry about being right or proving a point. It will only come back to bite you. Instead...
6. Figure out and write down the ways you can lower your commitment without consequence. What you contribute to the group, including time, money, and energy, is what the group is taking from you. This is what you need to correct above all else. So start to figure out how you're go about getting your life back, one step at a time. Sometimes it can start by just acting like a lousy JW. Know those people that don't study for meetings or keep up with the materials? Well that can be you. Rather than reading through all this stuff and getting worked up about it, you have the ability to just say no! I think I read more Watchtower literature while I was leaving than when I was actually active. That wasn't necessary! Just start to figure out how you can win something back for yourself, especially your personal time.
6. Choose your path. Are you looking to fade? Then you definitely need to learn how to lie. Looking to DA or just get DF'd? Write all the consequences on a piece of paper, look them over, and accept them. Deciding to remain partially active, or even fully active? Again, figure out your rules and stick to them. At any point you can switch your goals. But if you decide to start smoking and claim your trying to fade your basically not taking your fade seriously, so why even fade? Now your jeopardizing the fade, something you claim to want, and will be stuck depressed for getting DF'd and loosing things you put off accepting could be taken away. You're in a serious situation and choices matter. You typically can't have it all, you need to pick and acknowledge what can go bad, because it just might.
What I'm saying is that you should step back and realize that just because the JW leadership layers everything as a battle between good and evil doesn't mean you need to accept those terms. I think that by accepting, you make the situation more complicated and difficult than it may need to be. I know personally, a good bit of stress during my exit was self induced because I got wrapped up in the either/or drama than I should have bothered with.
I say this all knowing that most JWs, including Elders (maybe even especially Elders), arn't as serious about the faith as you think they are. At my hall, I could list 20-30 people that floated in and out of regularity that most folks paid little attention to. Possibly gossip about how inactive they are, but that is par the course. You're trying to survive, not worry about gossip. In fact, the serious/nasty behavior typically only comes out when they feel threatened.
Focus on winning back for yourself, it's worth it.




 +11 / -0
Ding
Ding a day ago

What did you do about going out in service when you knew you didn't believe it anymore?

 +1 / -0
oldskool
oldskool a day ago

Fist I lied, and wrote whatever I needed to on those time sheets.
In service, I played to loose. Bad presentations, light knocking, and using the word "bible" as the first thing out of my mouth with a long pause to give the householder the window to shut me down. It worked 90% of the time.
In fact, there was a family guy joke a number of years ago where peter becomes a JW and does exactly that. Enjoy it, it's the instructions:



 +5 / -0
millie210
millie210 a day ago

This is AWESOME oldskool!
What does the Org say about that....they say you only have to tell the truth to those who are entitiled to it,

Well! By virtue of everything they do and say they are not entitled to My truth, That is how I get around any moral dilemma with them.
I also appreciate your point about not reading and getting worked up. Most JWs are tired and stuck and not up for the fight...better for everyone to use a light touch .
Thanks for taking the time to write this all out, you are going to help some who are struggling.
 +1 / -0
millie210
millie210 a day ago

Ding
What did you do about going out in service when you knew you didn't believe it anymore?
I dont know if this would help any for you but pack your car as full as you can with publishers so that no one gets much of a turn.
Check out your own territory and chose one where you know most people are at work everyday.
If you do have to talk to someone - pick a light easy scripture of encouragement and just say:
My purpose in calling today was to share an encouraging thought from the Bible - read the scripture and tell them to have a nice day and leave......
if the JW accompanying you questions what you did at the door, just say that you are trying something new that the C.O recommended......which was to use the Bible more at the door.
(C.O.s are always saying this....they also say to use discretion about leaving literature so you can use that line also if you wish)
 
oldskool
oldskool a day ago

Another important thing about field service:
Just about every JW hates it.
If you have the power to fill it up with a bunch of time wasting bs all of the "True believers" are going to be right there to support you.
 +2 / -0
zeb
zeb a day ago

A great guide thanks. I faded. Fortunately for me I was not born in. I came in as an adult and never abandoned my former (few) friends who were barely any different to jw anyway.It was only after coming here I learnt that term fade. I no longer answered up. Especially as the elder doing the wt would do a critique of your answer. I noticed very few others were answering too. Just the old folks with their standard quote the page answers. They brought in the 30 second answer time which was really bizarre. It never stopped the wt study going on and on.
Re the school: (the school that never was!) I only ever got a reading twice a year.
I found the best use of the long rambling talks was doing my pelvic floor exercises.
I avoided any convo with anyone. Entering it was "Hello, baby doing well? "That's nice", and sit. Same on leaving.

 +1 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt a day ago

oldskool - All good advice:smile:
 
honest
honest a day ago

You know I'm a inactive jw. But wanna be a public apostate but can't because of family. We have found our happy medium. We don't go to any meetings, assemblies and zilch field service. Family still associate with us. They don't ask we don't tell. We celebrate the holidays and birthdays quietly. if watchtower abandoned the shunning policies we would be completely open about our stance. Till then watchtower and neither do our brainwashed family need to know our true feelings. watchtower wants to play dirty we play dirtier. While inactive yet still part of the jw social group I have been able to pull out my best friend and a few others by carefully planting seeds. We have our gatherings of us inactive jws. We are torn between being honest or losing our families. Everyone has chosen different paths and our path is right for us. it's a big fuck you watchtower, my one finger salute. I will have my cake and eat it too. Watchtower does not deserve to take my family or happiness away. So I play... 😈
 +6 / -0

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JWs predatory letter writing in the news.
by Dark Knight a day ago 4 Replies latest 14 hours ago   jw friends
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Dark Knight
Dark Knight a day ago

The video is worth watching too.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/80454665/grieving-woman-turns-the-tables-by-doorknocking-jehovahs-witness

 +2 / -0
OneEyedJoe
OneEyedJoe a day ago

This was just a pioneer trying to kill time by wiring something out before moving to the next house. I buy their story that it was a coincidence - if the JW knew of the death, she would've just lead with that. Why would they intentionally do this 3 months after the death? It actually seems like a shame if this story gets much attention because to me it's just a case of unfortunate timing and I think it'll look that way to most people (at least those who aren't grieving and sensitive to the illusion of meaning in minor things). It's a shame because JWs actually DO scan obituaries and write predatory letters to those who have had a recent loss - THOSE are the stories that need exposure and crying wolf like this just makes those stories seem less reliable.
 +1 / -0
smiddy
smiddy 20 hours ago

The video`s don`t work
Jehovah`s Witnesses have always targeted the most  vulnerable,but then hasn`t every religion ? in one way or another ?
smiddy
 +1 / -0
Bw500
Bw500 16 hours ago

I too think that letter was probably a coincidence (leaving a letter and a tract to someone who you've visited before counts as a return visit), but the JW could have also been thinking "this person experienced a loss. This tract might help, but I don't want to be too obvious about" which ended up as an epic fail.
Some JWs do read obituaries and look up the addresses of the family members mentioned to write "condolence" letters filled with "hope" from the Bible. My mother used to do this often. I only did it as an emergency option when I needed to make my hours for the month. But it always felt wrong to me.
 +1 / -0
moomanchu
moomanchu 14 hours ago

I buy their story that it was a coincidence - if the JW knew of the death, she would've just lead with that.
Why would they intentionally do this 3 months after the death?
Could be a coincidence, but when people get called out for bad behavior the lying starts, oops I mean the theocratic warfare starts.
When my brother in law died JW's came to the house about a month later.

They told us they seen there was a death in the family and had a related tract they wanted to give me.
Waiting 3 months could be done to allow people to get their composure back?

JW's absolutely check the obits to gain vulnerable prospects for possible cult recruits.
 +1 / -0

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/ Lett facial ticks from a stroke/aneurysm?
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Lett facial ticks from a stroke/aneurysm?
by azor a day ago 10 Replies latest an hour ago   jw friends
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azor
azor a day ago

I was speaking to my mom the other day. She stays in the group to retain a relationship with the rest of our in family. She told me that she heard from one of my brothers that the reason Lett makes all those weird facial gestures has something to do with a stroke or aneurysm when he was a younger man.
I don't buy it. Has anyone here ever heard this tale? The lengths they will go to.
 +1 / -0
smiddy
smiddy 20 hours ago

I say keep Lett on JW.ORG TV .
The more people that see this clown , the more people will either leave , or the more ,people will give JW.ORGTV a big miss.
Keep him as a visual spokesperson for the Governing Body for Jehovah`s Witnesses., OK ?
smiddy
 +10 / -0
jambon1
jambon1 8 hours ago

No. It's because he's a fucking arsehole.
 +2 / -0
sparky1
sparky1 7 hours ago

Yeah, Lett probably had quite a few 'STROKES' when he was younger, when his parents weren't looking!

 +1 / -0
Calebs Airplane
Calebs Airplane 7 hours ago



 +1 / -0
Calebs Airplane
Calebs Airplane 7 hours ago


 +2 / -0
awake!watcher
awake!watcher 4 hours ago

I heard that it was because his mother was dead and read lips, so he got used to using exaggerated facial expressions so she could understand him.
 
awake!watcher
awake!watcher 4 hours ago

That should say deaf, not dead.
 +2 / -0
LisaRose
LisaRose 2 hours ago

A stroke causes paralysis, it doesn't give you "rubber face", his issue is too much movement, not lack of it. I diagnose a severe case off ass-hat.
 +5 / -0
Pete Zahut
Pete Zahut an hour ago

It seems he has no trouble animating his face as is often the case with a medical issue. The problem is that his facial expressions and gestures are above and beyond what is necessary and he comes off as condescending and annoying to most people.
If they are concerned about beards distracting people from the "message", it's not a kind thing to say but maybe Lett should grow one just to cover up his distracting facial expressions.

 +1 / -0

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Lett facial ticks from a stroke/aneurysm?
by azor a day ago 10 Replies latest an hour ago   jw friends
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Joyzabel
Joyzabel an hour ago

Stephen's mother was not deaf (but unfortunately is dead now). His daddy talked the same way. They are from Alabama. (Pioneered with the parents for 2 years in Illinois) 🤓
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/ Happy Memorial Day!
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Happy Memorial Day!
by Perry 10 hours ago 5 Replies latest 3 hours ago   jw friends
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Perry
Perry 10 hours ago

Cheers to all the fallen soldiers and the sacrifice their families have made so that we can be free!


When you look in your rear view mirror today, remember and be thankful that the freedom you enjoy today was paid for by someone you likely didn't even know yesterday.
God bless freedom!
 +2 / -0
Perry
Perry 5 hours ago


 
stillin
stillin 3 hours ago

It's true, Perry. It's an ugly truth that people paid with their lives in unwanted wars. People with their best, most noble beliefs and hopes for their fellow countrymen.
it's really a pathetic world. We should be much further along as a race.
 
Perry
Perry 3 hours ago

it's really a pathetic world. We should be much further along as a race.


True. But, freedom isn't free, and never will be. Sadly, many have no idea of this concept, much less what Memorial Day is even for.



 
LV101
LV101 3 hours ago

I agree, stillin - the progress is discouraging re/wars. It's an unimaginable sacrifice that's been paid for freedom.
 
zeb
zeb 3 hours ago

"They shall not grow weary as we who are left grow weary
they shall not grow old as we who are left grow old.
At the rising of the sun and the setting of the sun we shall remember them."
ANZAC Ode.

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/ RC Was Worse Than I thought...
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RC Was Worse Than I thought...
by JW_Rogue 6 hours ago 19 Replies latest 17 minutes ago   jw experiences
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JW_Rogue
JW_Rogue 6 hours ago

I was visiting with my family and it seems the RC was worse than I thought. Now they all seem to think that "We are so close to the end" and that the "Brothers are really preparing us for the GT". Some even saying that soon our message will change to a judgement message for mankind and talking about how we need to improve "everything we do". How does it not sound crazy to them? How do the videos not seem like manipulation? How can they say they we so encouraged by a convention that was basically a threat not to leave JWs or else.
 +16 / -0
Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Billy the Ex-Bethelite 6 hours ago

"We are so close to the end"

Armageddon--closer than the inside of your pants since 1914!

 +10 / -0
ScenicViewer
ScenicViewer 5 hours ago

...soon our message will change to a judgement message for mankind...
Yes, they recycle that claim every now and then. I remember being told that in the 1970s!

 +9 / -0
JW_Rogue
JW_Rogue 5 hours ago

Prepare now for the GT by making sure your personality completely matches that of any other WT drone. Plus make sure you donate more, go out in service, and most importantly shun anyone who points out how crazy we are.
 +7 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 5 hours ago

Yay! We are even closer to witnessing a mass-murder of billions of people...even little babies!
Joy of Joys!

 +6 / -0
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 5 hours ago

Hell yeah, dubs will be eating this GT prepping stuff up with a spoon.
#deja vu 1975.
 +6 / -0
Wait For It
Wait For It 5 hours ago

Some even saying that soon our message will change to a judgement message for mankind and talking about how we need to improve "everything we do".
I've been hearing rumors that the preaching campaign is going to go in this direction and be announced at the annual meeting later this year. In fact, that is the exact wording used: "Judgement"
 +3 / -0
Heaven
Heaven 4 hours ago

The other day the Mormons Morons were at my friends house. They told him that 'atonement is coming'. He didn't have time to get into with them so he told them to get lost.
 It would seem there is more than one fundamentalist group presently ratcheting up the crazy.

 +4 / -0
Room 215
Room 215 4 hours ago

Boy, they're setting themselves to be a laughingstock .... the GT is their trump card,; once they announce its beginning, they've crossed the Rubicon there's no turning back... they will expend whatever's left of their credibility on that one call,,, and what do they do for an encore? .
 +4 / -0
OrphanCrow
OrphanCrow 4 hours ago

Room215: and what do they do for an encore? .
Oh...Satan is always lurking around...he gets one last crack at it at the end of the GT.
The WTS can play around with that threat for the next 1000 years. It ain't over til the fat lady sings...
 +1 / -0

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RC Was Worse Than I thought...
by JW_Rogue 6 hours ago 19 Replies latest 18 minutes ago   jw experiences
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JW_Rogue
JW_Rogue 4 hours ago

 the GT is their trump card,; once they announce its beginning, they've crossed the Rubicon there's no turning back... they will expend whatever's left of their credibility on that one call,,, and what do they do for an encore? .
Invisible "spiritual" great tribulation anyone?


 +3 / -0
sparky1
sparky1 4 hours ago


Governing Body(tm) of Jehovah's Witnesses, 'fiddling around' with the mental, emotional and spiritual well being of their followers for over 100 years!

 +2 / -0
OnTheWayOut
OnTheWayOut 3 hours ago

I have to believe that their money situation is worse than many imagined. This sounds like a reason to abandon literature distribution.
It also sounds like a given reason to accept anything crazy from Watchtower like taking all the congregations' money and making individual congregations move out of their Kingdom Hall.
 +4 / -0
GrreatTeacher
GrreatTeacher 3 hours ago

Great, mom will be a paranoid basket case when she gets home from this convention.
At least I don't have to live with her, anymore.
 +2 / -0
JW GoneBad
JW GoneBad 3 hours ago

"RC Was Worse Than I Thought"....in more ways than one!
It's difficult to stomach 3 straight days, so entire families are splitting them up. I did the same. One RC had 8,500 in attendance with 45 baptized, mostly JW children. Another had 7,900 in attendance with 40 baptized...again many JW children.
8,500 in attendance at one is the equivalent of 85 congregations. 7,900 in attendance at the other RC is equivalent to 79 congregations. Between the two RCs there were 85 baptized. That is a .005 percent rate of baptized JWs. So basically it took 2 whole congregations, with all the pioneers and rank and file door to door witnessing + all the cart witnessing + visits to the JW website to add 1 JW between them to their ranks.
Talk about worsed RCs ever!
 +5 / -1
ShirleyW
ShirleyW 3 hours ago

It's just so amazing how some folks have been in da troof for decades and every year it's the same old thing.
The year before my mother got sick and passed she said "we're on the fringe of Armageddon now" and that was 2005, wish I could ask her what are we on now in 2016.
Don't they know the fable about the boy that cried wolf? They're doing the same thing and somehow don't see it that way, phonier than Fred Sanford and all his fake heart attacks !
 +5 / -0
TheListener
TheListener 3 hours ago

JwGoneBad, that's a .5% baptism rate. Still pretty low.
 +1 / -0
zeb
zeb 3 hours ago

"will change to a judgement message "
I heard this mooted years ago. As the law suits get more with heavier penalties; as more people leave and 'new' ones are less; as their finances become more strained they will see this as some sort of persecution and are likely to push the r & f to do some sort of condemnation message and bring the ire of the law onto them. But it will be the r & f who cop it with mob re-action not the gb in their ivory tower.
When the dust settles the gb will say then " condemning? ..that was your personal mission, you decided to do that".
I fear for all the kids and innocents who are of an age to understand attending this drone fest.
Anyone want to be an elder? You do? You will be on your own when the pie hits the fan.

 +3 / -0
LisaRose
LisaRose 3 hours ago

This is typical of people after attending the conventions. They have just expended a good deal of their time and money to attend, of course they are going to come back with their brains freshly washed, energized and lobotimized.
In two weeks they won't remember a thing that was said.
 +5 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 18 minutes ago

They all HAVE to say it was "the best convention ever" because that is the socially acceptable thing for witnesses to say to each other!
BUT, just ask them to name several key points, or talk titles without referring to the program, and the fact is hardly anyone will have really paid attention.
Come next year, and it all happens again....
 +1 / -0

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/ I went to my girlfriend church service last night
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I went to my girlfriend church service last night
by joe134cd an hour ago 0 Replies latest an hour ago   jw experiences
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joe134cd
joe134cd an hour ago

I went to my Girlfriends church service last night. Basically it's a pentecostal type church that was started about 2 years ago. For a church that had started just recently, there must of been a congregation of about 20 members. I made enquiries and it usually has an attendance of around 20-30. I thing that struck me was just how quickly it had grown. In all my years as a JW I never witnessed or heard of a congregation that had 20-30 new publishers come out of the territory in less than 24 months. In my 40 years of JWisim I could probably count on 2 hands those that come out of the territory. So my question is "why is this". Is it because JWisim has a tighter control on it members. Because I must admit although my gf goes to church her thoughts are very liberal. I kind of wonder how many go just to listen to the music and socialize, as very few had bibles and I would guess even fewer would know where the books of the bible are - even my gf admitted to me she can't find bible books. For someone who attends church her knowledge is relatively shallow to. I left JWisim about 3 years ago and I find myself explaining simple bible facts to her.
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joe134cd
I went to my girlfriend church service last night
by joe134cd in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 an hour ago
i went to my girlfriends church service last night.

basically it's a pentecostal type church that was started about 2 years ago.

for a church that had started just recently, there must of been a congregation of about 20 members.

JW_Rogue
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RC Was Worse Than I thought...
by JW_Rogue in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 6 hours ago
i was visiting with my family and it seems the rc was worse than i thought.

now they all seem to think that "we are so close to the end" and that the "brothers are really preparing us for the gt".

some even saying that soon our message will change to a judgement message for mankind and talking about how we need to improve "everything we do".

LisaRose
stuckinarut2
oldskool
a minute ago
Perry
5
Happy Memorial Day!
by Perry in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 10 hours ago
cheers to all the fallen soldiers and the sacrifice their families have made so that we can be free!.

when you look in your rear view mirror today, remember and be thankful that the freedom you enjoy today was paid for by someone you likely didn't even know yesterday.

god bless freedom!.

Perry
LV101
zeb
3 hours ago
azor
10
Lett facial ticks from a stroke/aneurysm?
by azor in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
i was speaking to my mom the other day.

she stays in the group to retain a relationship with the rest of our in family.

she told me that she heard from one of my brothers that the reason lett makes all those weird facial gestures has something to do with a stroke or aneurysm when he was a younger man.

LisaRose
Pete Zahut
Joyzabel
an hour ago
Dark Knight
4
JWs predatory letter writing in the news.
by Dark Knight in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
the video is worth watching too.. http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/80454665/grieving-woman-turns-the-tables-by-doorknocking-jehovahs-witness.

smiddy
Bw500
moomanchu
15 hours ago
Perry
25
Questions for JW's from Christians
by Perry in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
i'm thinking of printing a tract with some simple but thought-provoking questions for people to use when jw's come to their doors.

questions from christians.

bible-believing christians appreciate the moral values of jehovah’s witnesses in their communities but have several questions that somehow seem to escape us when we are caught unexpectedly at our doors.

Perry
Greybeard
Perry
3 hours ago
Greybeard
11
Something you won't see on JW.org ... They discourage music education
by Greybeard in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz4tfrt1nk0&list=plcd6f28c13a0a9ac2&index=4.

Greybeard
Greybeard
Slidin Fast
6 hours ago
oldskool
8
Keeping your sanity while stuck as an active JW
by oldskool in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
i pass along this advice as a new topic, to get it past one off comments that may not get as much attention.. i exited the jehovah's witnesses about a decade ago.

like many, my personal situation felt to restrained to act on my impulse and get out quickly.

i took about a year and a half to two years to leave via da.. i empathize with anybody leaving the watchtower who finds it difficult to falsify dedication, interest, and belief in both their personal and public life.

zeb
ttdtt
honest
a day ago
temoin_de_jehovah
1
hello i am search jewish jehovah witness origin turc and speak french help my please thanks
by temoin_de_jehovah in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
hello .

i am search jewish jehovah witness origin turc and speak french help my please thanks.

Hisclarkness
a day ago
TMS
22
Embracing, Not Running From, My Repressive JW Heritage, Finding A Few Things Worth Salvaging
by TMS in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 a day ago
yes, we could have been born in an alley in calcutta or with the physical deformities associated with thalidomide.

instead, we were born into or introduced to a repressive, american, religious cult, that shielded us from the warmongering game of chess, the militaristic boy scouts, fornication-inducing sock hops, the twist, as well as the hokey pokey.

we heeded the warnings, avoiding the greedy self-worship associated with masturbation, decadent rock 'n roll and anything preceded by the word "extra-curricular.".

rebel8
Doubtfully Yours
Xanthippe
11 hours ago
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