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Rumours

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offlineirishshane
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Apr 7 14 2:00 PM
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Taken from FB


JUST GOT THIS EMAIL IN. Needs to be Verified.
(quote)
Subject: Latest News
Just thought I’d update you on what I just heard. Someone had talked to a person from Bethel and there are some huge changes coming up. there is no more Gilead school. This might be the last year of the Memorial, The number of partakers keep going up so they are thinking of stopping the emblems and just say it’s a rememberance of Jesus’ death, The 144,000 will now be considered a “ symbolic “ number instead of literal. This may upset many. Also, they want to increase the number of the Governing Body to 12 instead of 8 to represent the 12 apostles or the 12 tribes of Israel. They will be thought of as a group of Popes, just an example. the term “ anointed “ is going to be replaced by the term “ appointed “ , they will be appointed ones by Jehovah’s Holy Spirit. This will be coming out in a magazine soon. Bethel is continuing to lay off people because Obama Care says they must furnish health care for these workers. As of now only the Governing Body receives health care and benefits. The salary’s of the Gov. Body have increased and one of the members drives a Bentley car now. I don’t know much about cars but I hear the Bentley is over $100,000.
(end quote)






Personally without verification I have my doubts but will be interesting to see if these changes happen.


"The highs never match the lows......" - Ronan O'Gara (ex Munster rugby and Ireland player. Racing Metro coach)


  
status offlinewhytebyrd2
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I'm beginning to suspect that misinformation is purposefully being slipped out. It could help the GB know who in bethel is not loyal (and it seems as if there's a fair few) and it would be embarrassing if things not true went viral in the exjw community.
 The above report just seems too much.




Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
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status offlineMystla
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I agree that it sounds like a bit much to believe until we see proof.  I'd like to believe it's true, simply because it would mean a lot of new members for our board. smiley: happy



"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago; the second best time is now"
 -old Chinese proverb




status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Well ... well ... and well!
 Intriguing. We shall have to keep our eyes fixed to the various sites and our ears near our jdub rellies and see what pops up about this!



"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"


status offlineSwingLifeAway
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I have a hard time believing this. A relative of mine had cancer for years while she was working for the WTBTS in Brooklyn and I believe they covered all her care. The infirmary on campus is reasonably advanced and actually most medical needs are handled there.


-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
 - John Lennon


status offlineCacky
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I had heard that rumour about this possibly being the last memorial. I thought it meant they were hinting the end would come this year.


status offlinePauley4
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Memorial Partakers increasing!
 In 1999, the number of partakers is: 8,755.
 In 2013, the number of partakers is: 13,204.
 A difference of: 4,449; this is more than a 50% increase.
 Even the percentage of memorial partakers to memorial attendees has increased from: .062% in 1999 to .068% in 2013.
 When I first studied, we thought it was pretty amazing that the number of the great crowd was increasing, while the number of the anointed remnant (memorial partakers) was decreasing.
 What does the society have to say about this?
 "Does this total represent the number of anointed ones on earth? Not necessarily. A number of factors—including past religious beliefs or even mental or emotional imbalance—might cause some to assume mistakenly that they have the heavenly calling. We thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know. The Governing Body does not keep a list of all partakers, for it does not maintain a global network of anointed ones." w11 8/15 p.22.
 The funny thing is, it was drilled into about taken the emblems "unworthily." So, I would pass that plate by me pretty quickly. However, now it seems that they're making of light of people who partake mistakenly. I think people are partaking because they seriously believe that they are of the anointed. After all, if you're of the anointed, you get treated better in the congregation
 "The other sheep should never forget that to be saved, they need to support Christ’s anointed brothers who are still on earth." w12 3/15 p.19.


status offlineMarked for life
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Those matsos are good with butter.


status offlineinspecterD
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I agree that this is just too good to be true. If all were to be done as stated we probably would see an exodus. It is just too much at one time. Now if they spaced it over a few years I could see all of these things being done. New light is gradual. LOL Still pretty interesting stuff.

   




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Just how does Jehovah communicate through the Governing body?

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offlinehalf banana
Just how does Jehovah communicate through the Governing body?
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Just how does Jehovah communicate through the Governing body?
This is a serious subject and not to be taken lightly as my article will show. So how the heck God does god actually communicate with his people? The inside story can now be revealed!
Naturally this involves a lot of praying... an awful lot of prayer is to be found at the meetings of the governing body. An awful, awful lot. But I’m sure it will come as a big surprise to many of you as to how in fact they go about it.
You might think that after a special prayer one of them hears something in his head which tells them the answer?............. Nope, try again.
 They pray and a disembodied voice emerges from the ether and gives them the low down on what to do. Well no, that of course would be too Biblical so they are not keen on that method.
 Perhaps the wife of Brother Hugbottom has had a dream and they interpret it? Answer no, again far too Biblical. God it seems has other ways to communicate his divine truth to mortals on Earth nowadays.  (I have to interject here to ask an important aside... are the Governing Body really mortals anyway... when actually they are demigods? Makes you think doesn’t it?)
What really happens at “new truth” meetings is this: after an extra long and special prayer, they pull up their shirt fronts and expose their navels to each other. It’s quite amazing isn’t it! (It is a secret and little known Masonic rite called omphalodrosomancy) Of course this is done behind closed doors and is known only to those on the inner circle. I have it on the most trustworthy authority that this is what occurs but I‘m sorry, I cannot reveal my sources as yet. The next step is for each member to find sufficient fluff (or lint as Americans prefer) from their navels of the man on their right hand side and each contributes to a small clump in the middle of the table around which they are sitting. It is of course so small that a magnifying glass is used to examine the results.
Once when Brother Rutherford was doing it on his own, he came up with what looked like a chariot wheel so he thought that’s it! Jehu, the mad charioteer and his chum Jonadab. You see it’s not literal; it’s what is suggested by the little heap.  Low and behold the idea stuck and immediately it solved the problem of having to deal with more than 144,000 JWs all hell-bent on going to heaven. ”Let’s have a bunch of second-raters who don’t do heaven and call them Jonadabs,” Rutherford said; and it came to be.
This almost miraculous navel-crud examination also explains how the “generation of 1914” failure was completely turned around into the raging doctrinal success that we know and love today.
 One GB member who was personally anxious about the 1914 doctrine and whose wife had recently gone off the boil, had been playing a lot with his navel. It must have got infected. The result was that at the next “new truth” meeting he had an unusual amount of pus and scabby bits to contribute to the pile. What followed was a striking example of divine providence; for even without the magnifying glass, the answer immediately became clear to the entire GB round the table. They saw that the little pile of fluff and crud was overlapping! It was a sign from Jehovah! When the Bible said “the generation”, what it really meant to say was “overlapping generations”...obvious really!
So now at last we have the inside knowledge and the brothers do know deep in their hearts, that sometimes the Churches get things right, as they say there: God works in mysterious ways!
And by the way, every last word of this statement I can guarantee is as true as the very Watchtower itself.



  
status offlineKefka6
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Well it makes as much sense as anything else the gb have pulled out of their asses..... Oops I meant navelsimage


status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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...Which reminds me why there is so much mental illness amoungest the JW religion!  The WTBTS keep preying on the weak and yet we are the damned for speaking out.


To answer your question...it's because people continue believing the bullshit that they are allowed to get away with.



Don't know how involved you are- it takes a lot of effort from others that hope seeing a change.



I have absolutely no respect for the WTBTS...None!  They are hateful and controlling because they get away with it  - and it's a constant struggle dealing with the legal.














status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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They can have their god Jehovah, they can have their govering body...they can have all the insanity of religion they want.  And although I go through times with my JW family - they can never have me back!


Thinking about this topic further; good topic - for many talking about such would land them in the psych ward.


status offlinepunkofnice
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Because the WBT$ invented Jehovah(TM), he communicates to the GB the same way 'Action Man' communicates to Pailitoy.....the same way Mickey Mouse communicates to Disney.
 The GB are communicated to by the lawyers who are Jehovah's(TM) real channel.




Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job


      

status offlinehalf banana
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The fact of the matter is that Big J obviously does not communicate at all with the GB, if he did he would get his predictions right and they would not have to lamely resort to "new truth" every few years.
 Yes punky, if, as a religion, you think your myth is better than other people’s myth--- you need an army of lawyers to defend that position. I would add that as well as lawyers, accountants are also needed to communicate the doctrines of the corporation whose motto is "Money First". (But don't tell the 8 million punters!)


status offlineKBG
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Serious question- What documentary, if any, covers the workings of the governing body, the politics of the organization?


status offlinenevermind
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KBG wrote:
Serious question- What documentary, if any, covers the workings of the governing body, the politics of the organization?



 I think the only source is from crisis of conscience, where they just voted and need a 2/3's majority to change decisions. They looked at the Bible, then chose individually and that became doctrine.
 It appears that several members are more alpha or strongarm the others into their way of thinking, just like any other human panel/jury.
 Jehovah does not communicate at all through them or they'd have proof of a exemplary record. Instead they say "they are but imperfect men" and "the light gets brighter".
 JW's have most angles covered to stop you thinking too hard about it.


status offlinedivertido
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They are a corporation. Having been in business my entire life I know a little about the way corporations work. It is not nice. The alphas eat the betas. They change rules (beliefs) with the times and what is going on outside. They try to second guess (tell the future).
 The GB cannot be any different. They are imperfect men with their own agendas trying to influence for power or money or prestige while playing a game within a set but slowly changing system of rules.
 Two easy examples are, the blood issue and treatment of DF'd members.
 It is a power play nothing else by a limited elitist group of so called leaders.


status offlinehalf banana
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Yes it is all about power play and rank. As I suggested having ditched the traditional JW little flock “old truth” they are heading for self appointed demigod status! How transparently vain...
The most sacred of all religious cows is the Cash–cow. This animal provides for its owners a privileged life style. Where there is money there is power, this means they possess the power to alter people’s values and world viewpoint and thereby to control their lives. The Watchtower like most religions; is a belief which gives existential comfort for the needy. They do a good job of filling millions of ordinary people with hope and like all spiritual things it is an ever unprovable hope of heaven or paradise.
The cash-cow is the corporation itself, built out of vulnerable people’s religious sentiment.  The WTBTS think; why kill this beautiful beast when it both enriches us the owners and yields something positive for our customers?
 Are there any replies to this problem?


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About the religious cash cow..
 Somehow I think even the Pope believes he is the real appointed of God. I actually quite like this Pope.. so far.
 The 8 men in the GB probably also believe they're appointed of God. Sheltered from the real world, no debts, no credit worries, no rent worries, no food/ heating bill worries- no "oh fuck its Monday" worries, they even live where they work so no "shit I'm late for work/stuck in traffic/my boss is a wanker" worries.
 They have a nice insulated blanket shielding them from the outside world, and they probably believe its all from God and really do thank him everyday.
 There is only 1 on there with a family. Just one! They don't know how to raise kids or even probably talk to them. What would happen to your brain if you just got surrounded by yes men all day?
 If they goto any meeting they are guaranteed applause and lots of podium time. I used to love being on the podium, its a real head rush. Rock star lifestyle but the drugs are applause and constant adulation free food and easy life.
 I think they really believe in Jehovah. They really believe in the Org is the rightful channel.


status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Dive - It's good too see you continue posting and helping.


I'm thinking your can add to how I learn - knowing it's not easy for you either.



There are days when I wish for never having started my recovery.  Although it's been an interesting journey - it does get stressful at times...and I've gained so much respect for those that continue the work; and thus I continue too.







status offlinehalf banana
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Nevermind, if I were a rock star I would think drugs and rock and roll were the greatest things since sliced bread (and possibly better). Likewise the GB, individually and collectively, adores being believed as God’s channel. They love Jehovah as a requirement of office.
There are two possibilities here. One is that the appointment to a position of command gives the individual high status and applause if they carry out the tasks expected for their role. It is not necessary to be a believer to do this, all that is required from any functionary, including the rock star; is to perform.
The second possibility is that one could simply go through the motions, get results and cynically not believe.
With GB members they are chosen by their outstanding loyalty to the WTBTS which would indicate that they are actually believers. Nevertheless, as Ray Franz fatally found, there are many discrepancies between the ideals and the realities of being in the governing body. Not the least being the absurdity of saying that god directs them and not being able to show any evidence whatsoever that it is the case. They may pray but they vote according to the demands of the success of the corporation above all else. This is the first and last consideration.
 All they can offer to the flock is that they have ‘fed’ them. They regurgitate some re-cycled garbage in the Watchtower study article and then remind the reader “who is it who has brought you these good things?”  They seek applause. They cultivate and demand loyalty, they use fear and indoctrination and it works. Nearly eight million of them! As we know it does not benefit the human spirit of progress, science, self-reliance and compassion. It does however benefit the glory takers; the members of the GB.
I do have a sneaking suspicion that with Masonic roots, it is possible that something beyond faith lurks in this organisation but on the evidence available at present, I have to agree that the GB are ‘true believers’...... on a roll....... but delusional.


status offlineCee Cee
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My most recent dose of Watchtower palabra came earlier today. Seems a daily text sometime this week included information on the WT's 'old' teaching about 1914 once being the date that Jesus would come and the anointed would 'go to heaven' and admitting that they 'got that wrong'. [This was always presented as the year that Jesus sneaked back to earth, chose a Christmas-celebrating-pyramid-following-religious-group-that-claimed-Pastor-Russel-was-the-faithful-and-discreet-slave as the only one having the truth.] That text was presented to me as "See the Society apologized."
 Huh? Does that sound like an apology to you. [Well, it it's better than the nonexistent WTBTS apology to the families whose children were sexually molested by the Elders which it protects.] I wondered out loud why it didn't include a "we got it wrong" statement about 1975, which elicited a denial. I reached for my copy of "Life Everlasting in Freedom on the Sons of God". (Suddenly there was static on the phone line--which I could not hear but which prevented further conversation on that topic.) Then I was told of their experience parting forever from some Aussie Witnesses they'd shared a cruise with back in 1966 with a hearty wave and "See you in 1975".
 While they were so talkative, I asked what happened in 1919. That apparently was when the anointed who died immediately went to heaven. As for the anointed who were already dead, they could have been resurrected too. For where that is in the bible, well "its all in Revelations 8 - 12", or something. Then I got the obligatory "light grows brighter" lecture with the importance of "sticking close to the Organization". I suggested that these changes in doctrine were bringing the WT closer to Christendom. (More static. This time I could hear. It sounded like crinkling foil.)
 When the conversation continued it was about the March edition of Our Kingdom Ministry which I was told with some pride is "only for baptized Jehovah's Witnesses" which states
 '2014 could be the last year there is a Memorial since the end is so near'
 or words to that effect. Could we having another Here-We-Go-Again moment?
 Other tidbits from other sources:
 The growth of Witnesses in France and Germany is coming mostly from English (foreign language) groups, not natives. The growth in the USA and presumably the UK is coming from foreign language speakers. Your thoughts?
 Oh yeah, the point: It's always the "light grows brighter" even when that verse has nothing at all to do with changing doctrines. Usually that is followed with a line or two about "even the apostles didn't get it right--they thought the end was in THEIR day". *eyes roll* How would you handle that?
 Cee Cee


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The Watchtower  was based on a lie (that the paradise would be complete on Earth by 1914) which was based on a deception (the book of Daniel was prophecy written after the event!) The Greek scriptures also got the arrival of the king and kingdom wrong in the first century, a total failure. Why does no Christian seem to note this? So the whole of evangelical Christianity engages in the trance like fixation that “It is near!” That well known cry of the doomsday cultist.
It’s as plain as the nose on my face: ---if he hasn’t come by now---he ain’t comin’ at all.
I blame the RC church which collected the Bible texts and made them sacred for the purpose of furthering Roman influence. One third of humanity fell for this extravagant con-trick. The Bible is not holy, only in peoples mind is it so.
Fundamentally it is a collection of exotic ancient texts, many from the Bronze age, from Babylon, Egypt, and the Greek classical world,  addressing the politico-religious needs of those in power in the land of the Canaanites. They are just texts written by mere mortals.


status offlinehalf banana
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Cee Cee wrote:
'2014 could be the last year there is a Memorial since the end is so near'

          Also 2014 could be the last year that pigs don't fly





.


status offlineJoe Magarac
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The GB make shit up and say it's from Jehovah.
 There is also the possibility of self deception by some of them. I think the evidence points to Fred Franz really believing the 1975 thing.
 But considered as a group, it really is that simple.
 I speculate they go through the formality of praying first.


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Joe Magarac wrote:
The GB make shit up and say it's from Jehovah.

I’m certain That Fred Franz believed whole-heartedly. That’s the best you can do with faith since it’s not a matter of actually knowing something...all you can do is believe and then try and convince others of your spiritual fixations. And Fred was fixed like a limpet. His language was high blown rhetoric which some religious punters loved to hear, “From our understanding of the Holy Scriptures we are led to the inevitable conclusion that 1975.....”
I felt that he thought his announcement of the end of the old world was to have been his swan song, his moment of glory in the role of being God’s spokesman for the outworking of Divine purpose.      
I think he was amazed and bewildered that God didn't listen to him!
“Bible prophecy” never does  translate into real world events and like all JW imaginings: nothing happened---except Franz and his followers looked even more stupid than they did before.
My thought is how on earth do they imagine Big J speaks to Watchtower HQ? The evidence from their perpetual mistakes shows clearly he doesn’t! What supernatural process could they point to say that God is revealing information to them? I’m sure a JW would be at a loss as well... but come on; if God is giving them vital truths how are they claiming he does it?



A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
 Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s  Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).


status offlineKBG
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Faithfully and shh....discretely, so discretely that even the Governing Body doesn't pick up on it when he's communicating.  


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The majority of Christian (and other money-making) faiths make money because they can. If you want to make money and not have to pay tax on it ... start a religion. If you want to make money and have a group of faithful followers behind you ... start a religion and make it 'different'. If you want to make money, not pay tax and have a group of faithful followers behind you ... start a religion, make it 'different' and remember to toss in an invisible all-seeing all-knowing higher power. Add the word 'god' (with or without a capital G) ... say that you can interpret what 'he' (again with or without a capital H) has to say .................. and hey presto. One custom made ... ever evolving ... money making venture ... under the seemingly spotless label called 'religion'.
 Ta dah!



"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"

   




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Decline of the WTBTS

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offlineSwingLifeAway
Decline of the WTBTS
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Mar 24 14 4:06 AM
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We've had a couple threads on here about the end of the DO's. I think that it is another indicator of the end of the WTBTS. Some people seem to feel that this is about 'maximizing profits,' but simply put I don't think there's any profit left here.
We've all been watching this. Personally I've kinda been keeping a tally in my head as to how many of these consolidations have occurred and this latest one to me, really cements the trend of shrinkage. This organization has peaked. We are witnessing the decline. The question is not if, it's when. Momentum will only continue to grow for collapse.
The first article is a pretty good summary of what I've read to date.
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/branch-closures-and-fire-sales-a-growing-trend-for-the-society
This is a pretty good picture of the real estate sales that have happened. I have heard first hand that the moving of the printing presses to Wallkill had to do with efficiency (and by extension consolidation). "It just took too long with different phases of assembly on different floors" is pretty much a direct quote from a reliable source at Wallkill. 
http://www.brooklyneagle.com/articles/show-me-money-tally-watchtowers-brooklyn-property-sales-2013-11-20-213000
This might sound like a lot of money but the cost of supporting tens of thousands of volunteers in astronomical. You might think donations cover this. But the Witnesses have stopped growing in the developed world, even as their overhead costs in the underdeveloped world continue to grow. This is not sustainable financially. Neither are huge lawsuit settlements to people like Candice Conti. That is a legal precedent and it will happen over and over. Unlike the Catholic Church they won't be able to absorb these hits financially forever. They are burning through property to stay afloat. Once those reserves run out they'll be looking at other properties, but this cannot go on indefinitely. At first, you could kinda write these changes off as normal business practices.... I think we're passed that point.  The ship is sinking folks.








-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
 - John Lennon
Last Edited By: SwingLifeAway Mar 24 14 4:37 AM. Edited 5 times.


  
status offlinewhytebyrd2
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Fascinating write up by John Cedars as always. He must be the biggest baddest bur in the butt to the society since Barbara Anderson and Ray Franz! Of course we ALL are and you just as surely Dave. Nice post BTW! The financial finagling that WT has always done cutting this thing and that always raised an eyebrow from me back in the day but the stakes are much bigger now than cutting food services at assemblies and hopefully more than a few raised eyebrows will be happening among the rank and file in coming months. The Bethel homes and branch offices in other countries were once the pride and joy of those JW's who believed they were part of God's true religion.....now it seems it really was just an 'American' region(corporation)




Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot
Last Edited By: whytebyrd2 Mar 24 14 5:36 AM. Edited 1 times.


status offlinepalmel1234
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Thanks for posting those links.
Credit card machines in assembly hall?  SMH.  smiley: eyes
We are seeing the decline.  I like how the one article mentioned that by encouraging interested ones to research JW beliefs online, they also run the risk of people coming across other sites about JWs that expose their flawed doctrine and policies.
The internet contains a lot of stupidity, but in this case it's actually doing some good.






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status offlineinspecterD
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As far as I'm concerned it can't happen fast enough. I don't how they are gonna go out with a Bang or a Wimper. Either way I hope it is soon.
 I don't know if you all remember the International Bible Students (the ones that the JW's separated from) but when I was a Dubbie I would run into them from time to time. As far as I know, they kinda dwindled to a trickle and all but disappeared. The WTBTS could go the same way and have some adherents which some of us with families still in would have to deal with but I hope that the hardness of the religion would be thinned so that at least we could get our families back. I hope this is not wishful thinking on my part.


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Yeah inspectorD - this is an important distinction - the beliefs WILL live on after the WTBTS goes bankrupt. I forsee some new light that basically says the UN is not the one that is going to destroy religion, but capitalism, or technology, or whatever they want to blame, is the real culprit and fulfiller of that prophecy where religion has to be outlawed and then Armageddon comes. They will say that the end of the WTBTS is just another sign that Armageddon is at hand and that their collapse had always been expected. JW's will be greviously shocked and eat it up as consolation. The WTBTS will close out by saying that Jehovah's eyeball has been touched, and now, they need to only wait a little while longer. The wheels for A-Day will be seen as being in motion, and then the Society will never be heard from again.
 The Bible Students are FASCINATING I would love to meet one. Talk about delusional. THey believe their dwindling numbers prove they're right. I expect a similar self fulfilling prophecy from JW's in due time.
Mel/whytebyrd - My pleasure! Some of you know how intertwined my family is with the WTBTS so this is exciting, and personally relevant, news to me. I amn also very interested in business/politics so I've been trying to figure out the state of the WT's assets for a couple years now. I think I've got a decent picture painted. We have all awaited this moment, I think both of you for longer than me. We will have to keep waiting but, seriously, "just a little while longer and the wicked one will be no more."





-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
 - John Lennon
Last Edited By: SwingLifeAway Mar 24 14 11:23 AM. Edited 2 times.


status offlineeewx2
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I would love to see them go down. But my realistic side can see my parents still clinging to their beliefs long after the society is gone. It's really a no win situation for me, but I still hope to some day get my family back. I guess I'm the delusional one in this situation.


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eewx2 - I can't see my family leaving because of it either. Breaking free of those mental bonds is another issue entirely. BUT we can all take solace in knowing the world of good this will do humanity. It is still something we can celebrate! Our community has helped do this!


-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
 - John Lennon


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I do believe all the little bits we all do is helping but seriously Dave

We will have to keep waiting but, seriously, "just a little while longer and the wicked one will be no more."
Puleeeeze!
(good one Thumbs up!)










Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot


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I think its pretty funny, kind of a backfire effect on the 'don't pursue material things, higher education, better jobs' Well lookie now, where is the money going to come from now that JWs decided to spend all their time preaching and knocking when they might have pursued a better education to make more money to donate. No more funds....tooo funny... a domino effect for their wallet!


status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Well now Brother Dave ... you do make some ponderous topics to ponder over!
 I always wondered why the money from the Aussie halls never came from the hierarchy ... it was always a case of 'well Brothers and Sisters ... we are going to have to take a vote on such and such a bank loan for our new hall .................'.



"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"


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I also think they are fading. I just counted on my fingers those who have left (that I could think up within a few minutes) from the time I came in 35 years ago and I stopped counting at 30. Some of them were just kids when I came in. And I was just counting ones who were in the one congregation when I came in. That's a lot to lose when you consider the size of congregations! Oh, and I didn't count myself and my husband, one daughter and two sons!


status offlineFiguringitout20
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I kind of feel like the demise of the WTBS is too good to be true, at least not anytime in the near future. If they were having enough financial trouble to the point of going under, then I would think they would send out letters to the congregations with pleas for money, explaining the gravity of the situation. Dedicated JWs would bequeath their life savings to the org, instead of to their children, make great personal sacrifice etc. to help keep it afloat. With all the JWs doing the most they could to help, I think it would take a while for them to go under. Then even if it did go under, I think individuals would continue preaching and meeting somewhere together because it's all they know. I must be skeptical because I've heard a bit too much of 'the end is coming!" from the JWs. I hope I'm proven wrong.


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 If they were having enough financial trouble to the point of going under, then I would think they would send out letters to the congregations with pleas for money, explaining the gravity of the situation. Dedicated JWs would bequeath their life savings to the org, instead of to their children, make great personal sacrifice etc. to help keep it afloat. With all the JWs doing the most they could to help, I think it would take a while for them to go under.
I definitely agree with both of these statements. I think these days are still coming, but I don't think we're going to see efforts this forthright until they are in a free fall and again, this is only buying time. They probably only have a million or so publishers devout enough to bequeath such large sums of money to the organization, and of these people, they need to maintain the illusion of being a religious organization. As they fall apart more and more are going to leave because they will no longer be able to hide that it's actually a business. There has been an unprecedented frequency of new clues recently.
Granted, I am not talking about the organization dissolving right away. This is a large organization and it will take time for them to fully rot out form the core and collapse upon themselves. But it is happening.



-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
 - John Lennon
Last Edited By: SwingLifeAway Apr 2 14 3:31 AM. Edited 1 times.


status offlineCacky
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I just really think that with the Internet, it's end is coming. Think of all the curious young ones who will take a peek at the sites they know they aren't supposed to be on, and they'll learn something. Those of my generation had a dismal rate of keeping their kids in once they were grown, and that was before the Internet.


status offlineFiguringitout20
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Cacky, that is true about the Internet! It's a great place to learn TTATT. I left before JW's had their own website and I think before the Internet, social media, etc really took off. I imagine they must give a ton of warnings in the literature about the Internet because every website about JWs, except their own of course, is strongly opposed.


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SLA, it is so heart-warming to read the words “decline of the WTBTS!”
 Most of us here have been hurt by this cult and would love to see it meet the end it deserves by public exposure, bankruptcy and mass desertion.
The fact of the matter is actually that for all our wishful prognostications of failure, numerically it continues to be well supported.  It has a membership approaching eight million. The rate of increase may be proportionately slower nowadays but in real terms a million new members is millions of new Dollars each year nevertheless.
 Eight million financial contributors can feed the egos of the GB and keep alive the most absurd doctrines within an inward looking cult.
 This means that in recent years millions of hopeless individuals and families have been given a religious hope---a futile hope--- but at least something to look forward to. They have determined that their lives were so bad that they are even prepared to swallow the Watchtower bait of paradise at the expense of personal freedom and slave for the interests of the cult.
The organisation has reached a platform of wealth which will sustain it for a while whatever happens.  I wonder where the property money will go when a majority inside the religion realise that the WTBTS is just a business peddling in religious dogma?



A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
 Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s  Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).


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"The organisation has reached a platform of wealth which will sustain it for a while whatever happens. I wonder where the property money will go when a majority inside the religion realise that the WTBTS is just a business peddling in religious dogma?"

 Property $$ will go to pay lawsuits!
 And it won't be enough.




Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot


status offlineSwingLifeAway
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half banana - I disagree with you on the importance of those new members. I touched on this earlier but most of the growth now happens in the third world. First world growth has almost completely leveled so they are not raking in "fresh meat" in the way you are thinking. The contributions are by and large coming from wealthy developed countries, the same ones where membership is leveling. Most of those third world members end up being an added expense. You don't have to look much father than the Yearbook to see this is the case. 


-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
 - John Lennon


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SLA Dave, the point is taken about the growth only taking place in the third world. magazine income must have declined enormously yet the books and mags are still a compulsory purchase. How much does each Jdub spend at the literature counter and multiply that by 8 million?
They are ramping up the demands for more and measurable contributions (Jehovah needs the money). They own countless Kingdom Hells and assembly halls throughout the world and factories and other valuable properties in NY City and state. They have vast investments and participate each year at the most prestigious London business investment conferences. It is greatly encouraged by the GB that faithful Jdubs should bequeath them all their worldy wealth upon death. With eight million willing participants in this racket, I can’t see total failure--- only a significant downturn. This is  of course just a mere opinion.
What might tip the balance are two things;
 1/ As Sharon has mentioned: lawsuits. The irony is that in their worldly greed to own all the KH’s; they are now legally considered to be an organised, hierarchical religion, (i.e.”snare and a racket!!) which means that those in charge are held responsible for the misconduct of their members actions and because of the corporate wealth there is an assumption of being able to sustain heavy financial penalties as seen in the Conti case.
 2/Should the world wake up to the fact that certain religions parade as charities, they might realise that certain religions do not actually contribute to their country’s welfare. This could be demonstrated by withdrawing the tax- free status of such organisations.
 I think the WTBTS would probably not be able to sustain paying tax along with the big lawsuits.
I reckon that it is now time to inform the governments in each country that it would make sense to give tax exemption only to genuine charities not all religions. Why promote harmful cults?
What do you think?



A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
 Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s  Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).


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I doubt they're generating enough revenue in donations from new literature in the developing world. We're talking about people who make dollars a day here. It's really hard to see them being able to maintain a first-world quality of life at their facilities with this membership demographic. I'm not saying that they generate $0 of income but when you begin to consider the astronomical overhead of maintaining 100 worldwide facilities, whether they house printing presses or not, I don't see those numbers cutting it.
 Just think about how much the electricity and heating costs them annually alone. Wallkill now has solar panels but I doubt that's a global standard just yet. You also have water and food to consider. And then there's just the cost of keeping up the front, moving their people around the globe on planes or in cars is expensive as well. Plus they have their infirmaries where they pay for the sick and elderly who have managed to work their way in there for life. Then you add the millions from the Conti case. Then you think about the legal precedent that's been set. And how disgusted the jury was by the actions of the WTBTS.
 When you really look at what they're pulling in right now in a given year realistically I don't see how they're turning a profit.
 As far as taxing religion - I am a huge proponent of it. Even as a child I could see that the Catholic Church should be taxed. When I said that to my Father he said "careful what you wish for." I'm still wishing for it.


-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
 - John Lennon


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I have read of at least 20 or more world wide branch closings recently. Coonsolodating or reciving the ( I believe money laundering ) from HQ then a eternal stream of payback that never goes away per a recent letter. Donations/payback pledges for building or improving now continues beyond the payback period. Plus the local congregations do now own the property, the HQ maintains the title.
I believe wallkill is supposed to have a farm to provide for the food.
It's been stated more than once that the WT either sometimes pays for the education for Dr or lawyer etc, for use at Bethel, or they acquire a new member with these skills. This is not going to cost them much since it is "service" for Bethel.
Moving people around.... well I am seeing the massive number of halls with telescreens now. Not so much travel is needed when you can stream it live from the Warwick resort?
The USA R&F are encouraged now to printout the study WT from jw.org. This will likely continue. JW.org is becoming the new "literature" with tablets now even being used in field service., and brought to the KH. The savings in reducing the printing, aside from outsourcing printing to other countries where it is much cheaper to produce, that I believe is being done even now is big.
The sales of the buildings in Brooklyn is now in the billions. ( this does not count the sales of Bethel branches all over the world)
Yes the Conti case has them scared, but the many lawyers made sure the assets are spread out all over the place. That WT will not be sued out of existence. The money is protected over a laundry list of corporations. The new donation pledge arrangement is also going to bring in $$$$.
Also, reducing the regional conventions to one a year and assembly days down to one day will save $$$$ as well. The legal department in HQ is very savvy ( what do you expect from a religion re-created by a lawyer!).
The literature donations might seem piddly, but when spread out over millions it adds up!
The WT will only be taken town when the potential recruitment has been pre-educated that the WT is a cult and knows the truth about "the truth". Only then will they really suffer. The defectors are the highest of any organized religion according to the PEW report.
My opinions as an outsider, never been a JW,  but studying the reality of this organization to death for years.


 



   




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I Needed This

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offlineThoughtless
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Apr 16 14 10:28 AM
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Let me start from the beginning, my father and his family (a family of 10 siblings) all are witness, my mother side isn't but up until my mother divorced my father when I was 5 she was working on becoming a witness. Those 5 years didn't work out to well for her nonetheless I was incouraged to attend meetings with my fathers family. When I was young the incouragment I received to go further and push for more was overwhelming (give talks, speak at doors, get baptised), but I embraced it doing all except baptism because to me that was something I wanted to be sure about.
 Growing older I did more and more things that was frowned upon by my family and congregation it seemed the more I tried the more my personality was not falling along the lines that they set forward. So slowly I fell away I think the last straw was when one of my cousins was DFed and my father would tell me u can't be around him unless unavoidable that pissed me off, as far as I was concerned thats my family and I never turn my back on family I was about 15 then (they said I'm just being rebellious and tried to study with me with young people ask book). There was so many things I wanted to do that my father wouldn't let me because of Witnessing no boyscouts or sports for me....
 When I left and I knew I wasn't coming back I joined the football team (all American DB for 2 years) I recieved a track scholarship went to college then joined the Air Force (all things my family and elders in the congregation frowned upon).
 Now I'm 32 seen the world lived in Germany and Japan met wonderful people who guess what weren't witnesses. It just bothers me that I can't speak to my father without him bringing up me going to the hall find one where I am all I ever wanted was just a regular conversation.
 If my story went to long I apologize just had alot built up over 17years smh and still alot more unfortunately thats why the title is I Needed This. Those who have been through what I have and share the same emotional ties that I do. I thank you all for that.


  
status offlineKBG
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Thought,
 Sounds like you needed to do what you needed to do for you, and you can feel good about that.
 It would be nice if family could just see you as the person you are and accept you for that. I don't know if it would work for you, but, with my G'ma, I would just say: "Gramma, we are not going there" and she would stop her JW lecture about what I needed to be.
 Germany and Japan, sounds like a great view of the world,
 K


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Currently in Kuwait, taking on as much of this world I can turns out it isn't as bad as some would want u to think it is. I do hold some values that I recieved as a witness with because I believe its the right way to be but guess what those same beliefs are instilled in people around the world different religions races and ethnicities, so I guess it wasn't values of the but values of the world the people they don't accept.


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 You are in the living room of a great little group who really do understand. About so called 'worldly' people... That was a big realization for me too. The good values that WT corp. spouts are not exclusive to them! I was born in so bought the lie for the better part of my life because I wasn't supposed to associate with people outside of the religion. What an aha moment when I got out and met people of better character than some of the JW's I'd known.
 You watch your back over there in Kuwait and keep posting. Being exposed to such a multicultural life is a wonderful opportunity for you.




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Hello there and welcome :-)
It is great to read stories of others who totally understand the legacy the religion leaves isn't it??!  Anyone who has been made to feel a 'failure' or a 'disappointment' by those who should be proud of them for being an individual, knows exactly how you felt!!  Sadly, all of us here have felt those feelings at some time........and many are still being shunned because of what they believe (or don't), rather than for what sort of person they are....
It's only once we are brave enough to open our eyes and ears, regardless of the backlash from those still under the mind control of the organisation, that we realise we ARE a part of this world, and for good and bad, it's a great place to be .............and all of those 'scary' worldly people, are simply people lucky enough to have escaped the mind control smiley: smile
Good to have you here
Sam



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Hi Thoughtless and welcome to the forum. Glad to see another deflector join the ranks of the "apostates". I really appreciated the fact that you could see the fallacy in shunning family at a young age is to your credit.
 Whythebird, I too have noticed that there were things I just believed because I was born in also. The things about "worldly people" was eye opening and made for a better transition for me. To be able to associate with people who were truly caring and helpful was wonderful.

   




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Keeping the congregation CLEAN

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offlinephototrue.jwstrugglehelpf...
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My husband was ticked when he got home tonight!  He came in, said he was going to say a prayer and then we were going to have a family discussion.  My daughter and I look at each other and I think, uh oh, I bet this is about the religion....   Well I was right.
 My still in husband has been doing some work for a older sister in our congregation.  This is an amazing woman and I love her dearly.  She's been better to me than my mother (that isn't hard though, most strangers are).  Anyway this woman has been taking care of her extremely sick wheelchair bound husband for 20 years and he died a few weeks ago.  Well this sister has missed most of the meetings in the last year but most people chocked it up to her husband suffering a couple strokes and her workload increasing, etc.  She told my husband the real reason.  About a year ago a brother in our cong was helping her around the house, being very attentive, texting her, etc.  She welcomed the help because mostly the brothers just ignore her even though she has been incredibly faithful her whole life.  So one day while in her home this guy comes up behind her, grabs her arm and tries to kiss her, forcing himself on her.  Says he's developed feelings for her and feels she's done the same with him.  She freaked out and told him to get out.  She went to the elders and turns out this guy was in prison for 10 years for sexual assault! !
 Sidenote:  About 18 months age I was in service with this brother and he invited me to go to a return visit with him that was a woman.  When she opened the door and saw him she started screaming at us to get off her property, that he was a sexual pervert and JW let sexual predators go to strangers doors, etc.  We left and I felt so bad for this brother because it was like a personal attack on him and I thought the lady was just blaming him in general as a man in the organization.  So I told him I'm sorry that happened, that probably makes you feel bad, don't let it get you down. 
 Back to the elders.  This is why my husband was so ticked off - they didn't do anything to this guy.  Just blew it off as not 2 witnesses.  He was in JAIL for 10 years, that's another witness as far as the Shepherding the Flock book says!  The elders had the gull to ask her if she kissed him back or gave him any reason to think she was interested in him.  She was furious.  Her husband is sitting there in his wheelchair, in the meeting with the elders with her and tears are streaming down his face.  He can't talk anymore but the guy is really upset this happened to his wife of over 40 years!  Can you imaging?  This ass tries kissing her in her home when her stoke victim husband is in the other room!  The meeting ended when the elders told her to go make peace with this brothers wife.  Go up to her and make peace.  WTF??  She said, "Me???  How is that my place? And since he is denying it what's the sister to think of her??  So those were the elders final words and they did nothing to the brother and made no effort to warn the congregation.  So much for caring to keep the congregation clean and safe, huh?
 So for the last 2 months (god, I can't believe that's all its been) I've been showing my husband all the things I'm learning.  You have to remember we are both still in and in good standing in the congregation and I'm just mentally out 2 months or so.  He's been listening to everything and agreeing that the organization is corrupt but it's still the truth, etc. etc.  Well now he is seeing our dear friend go through the same treatment as all these child sexual assault victims have been claiming.  It's hit home to him now and he's pissed!
 Also interesting that he had this frank discussion in front of our 13 year old because he's been adamant that I keep quiet with her about how I'm feeling.  Well he was talking openly to her tonight about my not wanting anything to do with the religion any longer.  My daughter took the opportunity to tell him that she doesn't want to be a JW, that to her it is clearly not the truth and she's felt that way for some time.
 So all that and this older sister and my husband still express their faith that Jehovah will take care of it in the end and these elders carry a heavy judgment in how they're handling this.   That is so disappointing.  I'm trying to find a way to look at this.  I guess the main thing is that he's no longer going to be controlled by this cult and listen to whatever they say anymore but he's also not going to give up on God like I have.  I guess I need to be ok with that.
 Wow, this turned out long, sorry.  Thoughts?

Last Edited By: phototrue Mar 4 14 8:15 AM. Edited 1 time.


  
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While I am really sorry for your friend having to go through that experience, I'm glad it's been so eye opening for your husband to hear about it.  These sorts of things happen so frequently, it's really ridiculous!  "Spirit directed" indeed!  smiley: eyes


That is also fantastic that your daughter was able to speak openly about not wanting to be a jw any more.  You guys are all on your way out!  I predict that a year from now you will all be eating brunch on Sundays and laughing about how lovely it is to sleep in on the weekends. smiley: smile



"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago; the second best time is now"
 -old Chinese proverb




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Oh wow ... that poor lady! I cannot imagine someone trying to invade my personal space IN my personal space! She should have reported him to the Police and not bothered with the patriarchal WBTS sideshow she endured. I dare say her husband was more than just upset ... he would have felt dreadful not being able to keep her safe.
 Unfortunately there are many sexual deviates floating about the WBTS and in other religions too. For whatever reason ... religious leaders seem to think that an overt show of remorse, a splash of tears here and there plus a quick 'I won't do it again' absolves someone from wrongdoing. How precious some religions can be when it comes to protecting killers, sex offenders, child abusers, thieves and liars. They're not protecting their flock by not saying anything or warning others about people like that in their midst ... they are simply creating more victims!
 I admire your daughter in speaking her mind ... good for her! She is fortunate in having you by her side and hopefully her dad too. Be your usual happy self PT ....... and your hubby may just see the REAL world without those WBTS inspired rose-coloured glasses he's currently wearing. Give your daughter a hug from me .... and make sure she gives you one back. It's not easy negotiating a fade away from that lot!



"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"


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What blows me away is how vigilant the Elders are in looking for any spiritual weakness in their flock--always hunting apostates--people who dare to question or change their mind about what they believe. But something like this, ah well, the WOMAN must have done something to bring this on herself. Besides, they need another witness to take any action. They want to be spiritual cops with their elder's badges, but when there is real crime in the congregation, they don't do a damned thing.
Your husband has now seen things the way they really are. Hopefully he will continue to look behind the illusion and realize the whole thing is a sham. Hang in there... in a way, I see this as a real "opportunity" to open his eyes all the way. I'm wondering about your friend... how this will affect her in the long run. I think she should still call the real cops and turn this guy in.



“The first problem for all of us, men and women, is not to learn but to unlearn.” ~ Gloria Steinem


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It's funny how a outwardly 'remorseful - I'll never do it again' sexual offender ... is more welcome to sit at the family dinner table than an apostate!



"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"


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YammerHammer, good to see you keep posting.  I'm just behind with reading through the forums...my bad.


Rhonda, my love - I'd agree about not invading my private space. I've struggled for years hoping to find recovery and when reading these stories, I just get pissed off again...



I try not hating the people but it's another story when it comes to their filthy religion that protects the guilty.  I was once the same way...and today, I'd call the cops too.  I know having a relationship with them [local governertnt] and we all want peace of mind, so, we continue helping them as they help us.



And so they want being seen as, "Clean"....that's a joke!



They are filthy liars that hide behind religion.  We all know that game; and find recovery with sites such as this.










































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Wow what a terrible situation! Poor lady. I'm glad she had enough confidence to tell your husband. Hopefully his outrage bolstered her up a little.


This might be a huge generalization, but it seems to me that men and women who leave the org. do it for very different reasons. Women tend to leave more for emotional and "people" reasons. You know, seeing all the injustices and hypocrisy and dishonesty, etc. Men tend to leave more for doctrinal reasons. It's not always that way of course. It wasn't for me. But I do think men take these situations and try to find a logic behind it. So as outraged as your husband was by this, it sounds like he is still trying to find a scriptural or shall I say organizational explanation for it all that he can get behind.



But it could also be the tipping point for him. You should tell him about the example (It's in Ray Franz's 2nd book I think) of the sister who divorced her husband because he was having sex with an animal on their farm. She eventually got remarried, and they disfellowshipped her because while he had been having sex outside of the marriage, it could not have resulted in a baby and so therefore was not technically considered adultery. But her getting remarried did. Even when the society changed it's position on this, they refused to rescind her d.f.'ing. No circular reasoning can make sense of so much that the org. does!



Keep us up to date on what happens!



Valerie


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It's so sad that this is such a typical case. This isn't something that "rarely" happens. Just disgusting how they think they are so above any responsibility for how badly they handle situations. Hopefully your husband will eventually get sick of putting up with it all.


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I hope things go well for you and your family in getting out of the cult.

   




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Hello again, and hello to the new

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image some may remember me, some may not- I used to be on here years back- I had poured my soul, my heart, and my and confusion out all over many many posts and threads within this forum- and ended up leaving for the sake of finding myself. I cannot recall how to navigate this sight very well, nor do I remember my past login info so I had to create a new profile. I hope this is okay. image
 Anyway, I'm Trish- Cacky's daughter. Mom keeps encouraging me to come back to the forum. I guess I do need the support-  at least the kinship- with those who understand the deep threads being raised a JW leaves within us, even after our mental departure...
 I hope all is well with everyone here. I think about those I met here often! I have an odd way about ,myself, I know- and I've learned a few things that put some pieces of my puzzle together that I hope I can share...
  


  
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Hi Trish,
 Its good to have families visiting us. Welcome back.
 You can hope all is well with us, but, probably not. We all have past grief, recent grief, or past grief that sneaks up on us and bites us in the butt as current grief. Being raised JW does leave things imbedded deep within us.
 Hopefully I/we can be a good support to you, I do look forward to hearing more of your story and experience.


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TRISH!!!  So glad to see you again, and happy that you decided to come back.  You were very active when I first came here over 2 years ago, and your posts and support were part of the regular input that was so helpful to me.  I hope things have been going well with you and the family.........Hug



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Hi Trish, nice to see you again! wave



"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago; the second best time is now"
 -old Chinese proverb




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I'm glad you're back, Trish. This is such a supportive board and I know many of them have missed you. Irish Shane, a couple of times, has told me to say hello to you in the past. So I know they have been thinking of you.


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Oh! Hi Trish! WB!


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............ StormyGirl?    Nup ... doesn't ring a bell.
Trish?   As in Trish, Cathy's daughter?     Nup ... nothing.   Nada.   Not even a tinkle of the old door bell.
No ... wait ... it's coming back now ................................



























oh YES ... it's TRISH!    As in OUR Trish!    The lovely Trish.   Trish ... as in 'hi I'm Trish ... Cathy's daughter' Trish.     I'm right aren't I?   I DO know you!   Don't I? OMG

Yep ... just kidding!     It's GREAT to have you back.    And it's about time young lady ... I was beginning to think I'd have to invest in a truck load of BO spray for the members, in case our pits smelled and that's what was keeping you away!!!!  CrazyChuckle
Welcome HOME!




"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"


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Hey Trish - Welcome home wave
I did see a couple of your posts on other threads and thought "I must welcome that newbie" lol!!  Luckily I saw this before I did smiley: smile
Of course we remember you, and its great to see you back!!
Big HUGS
Sam xx|



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Oh wow! You all do remember me!!! Thank you for the warm welcome back! I've missed you all here.... Just bear with me as I am horrible with remembering names lol its been a crazy few years but I've discovered so much about myself. I can't wait to share it all <3


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I remember you Trish and am glad you're back
Welcome Back!
 Got any new sewing projects to post on the Creativity board?




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status offlineirishshane
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Welcome back Trish.
 Good to hear you are well.


"The highs never match the lows......" - Ronan O'Gara (ex Munster rugby and Ireland player. Racing Metro coach)


status offlineStormyGirl
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Thank you, thank you!


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Hey Trish! It's good to see you back.
 Looking forward to reading about your journey.


I Ctrl+Alt+Deleted My Religious Programming  

"It is better to live one day as a lion, than a hundred years as sheep"

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Disowned and abandoned by my entire JW family

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offlineEldersSon
Disowned and abandoned by my entire JW family
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Dec 24 13 8:50 AM
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I was brought up a JW, my father was a well known elder he knew Knorr, I met him before, he did many conventions back in the day when JW's would rent out huge stadiums. I hated it, I always knew something was wrong with it; Eph 1:4  "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love." When my father died in 2009, I dropped everything in my life to care for my aging mother ( also a JW). during those years my 3 brothers, all JW's hated me for this even more than before, they foolishly thought I was going to convert my Mother. I say foolish because no one converts anyone as stated in Eph. 4:1, she was never one of Gods from the beginning. And my brothers were always lying to me...remember JW's are told it's ok to lie to people they feel not worthy of truth:
 ( QUALIFIED TO BE MINISTERS (1967 edition), p. 197. ) The Society actually teaches Jehovah's Witnesses to cover-up or lie about certain facts. They call this tactic -- Theocratic War Strategy. The Watchtower instructs Jehovah's Witnesses that, "As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interest of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies." ( WATCHTOWER, June 1, 1960, p. 352.)We find the Watch Tower Society practising their belief that it is proper to deceive people. But they say this really isn’t lying. Why? Because the Society has a different Definition of lying than most of us. In their book “AID TO BIBLE UNDERSTANDING” under the word “LIE” we read:“Lying generally involves saying something false to a person who is ENTITLED to know the truth ...”. “While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it”.
My oldest brother who is an elder has told me in front of people,"don't use Bible scriptures on me" when I have confronted him with Bible quotes on his actions when I catch him acting very un-Christain like! Imagine someone who claims to teach the Bible not wanting the Bible being used!!! lol...funny and scary at the same time..very creepy. Him the one who followed in my fathers footsteps knows nothing of the Bible, only what the organization has told him to know... I out-scripture him every time! Of all the cult religions..catholic, LDS, 7th Day Adventist//etc. JW's are the least knowledgeable! One day I had to go out of town, and while I was away my elder brother drove up from Florida and took mom away...when I returned she was gone...June 3rd 2013. I haven't seen her since. Since then it's been my brothers attacking me and making my life miserable, they have all disowned me they want nothing to do with me, I basically have no family now, since everyone in my family is a JW. So now I am alone... no family...knowing I am hated by them last text from my brother said he is hoping I will be on the street living in the gutter or under some bridge dying...it does get me down every now and then to think my own flesh and blood can say such horrible things to me. Having never had holidays growing up, I never really celebrated Christmas etc. And even though I know Christmas is un-scriptural (Jesus wasn't even born in December!) it does sometimes get me down knowing I have no one to turn to. my wife who is from the Czech Republic is in contact with her mother all the time, and they have accepted me as their own son. But I still get lonely most of my friends have moved away, and during that time of caring for my mother I lost touch with many of them and didn't have time to make new friends..so I am alone in this world it seems. I am a Reformed Christian, and there are no Reformed Churches around that I can find..I reject today's evangelical false teaching of the rapture and the phony heretical "seed" teachings...and all the seeker friendly churches with all their false doctrines. I study all religions ( the only way to fight evil is to know evil). So anyways it did help to get this off my shoulders.


  
status onlinecangie
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Welcome    Son, to your new home and your new family, if you wish to join us.  Most of us here have lost family to the WBTS, and we have discovered that family are now those people in your life who truly love and care for you, even if they are not related to you.  You get to choose your new family based on shared values, and not just on the fact that you show up several times a week in the same place, and mindlessly repeat the same nonsense together.
There is always room in this forum for new ones, and they join us every day.  So many are leaving the organization because like you, they see the hypocrisy  in the JW's behavior and teachings, and that they don't even follow the rules that they claim are so holy from the bible.  Please feel free to stick around and post, ask questions, jump in wherever you like...and make new friends.  We already consider you one of us.    Pals       Group hug  Oh, and   "Merry Christmas"        Rudolf lights


Last Edited By: cangie Dec 24 13 10:21 AM. Edited 1 times.


status offlineEldersSon
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Thanks...I just needed to get it off my mind, ya know...as for information on JW's.. i am probably one of the best for answers. I study all religions from Bahi to Zoroastrianism, lol all cults of course...anyways it's the holidays and I was feeling down, I am very logical and yet I am still amazed my family would just drop me like that. The pure hatred that comes from them is again astonishing to me...before my mother left we had always been close regardless, even my dad before he passed in 2009 had rekindled our relationship, to the point I took him and my mother to Florida for 2 great vacations, just well like I stated when my dad passed...it's been downhill ever since, to have those closest to me turn away in a blink is still hard to accept. I like people, I like to talk to anyone I meet...indeed I am that guy who says "Hi" to people I see walking down the street, I open doors for complete strangers, I hold them for women, I open the car door for my wife and close it for her, and when we get to our destination, I get out first, and walk to her side to open her door...if I see someone with a flat tire I stop and introduce myself ( I used to not have to do that, but todays world is rather scary for most and I understand this) and ask if they need help! When I walk down the street or walking into the grocery store, if I see some trash on the ground I pick it up and throw it away...I dunno maybe I care too much.. or maybe others care too little. The other day a girl was walking down the stairs where I was visiting, she was carrying a vacuum I offered to carry it to her car, she was very grateful and somewhat shocked someone would actually help her ( I get those looks all the time).. lol I do prattle on...anyways MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and everyone else! (Yes I insist on greeting everyone with a Merry Christmas, not "holidays"..that goes for all holidays!


status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Dec 24 13 4:17 PM
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helloRudolf lights


While I would doubt you have all the answers to any religion...I'm so happy you found us on one of those days when life seems so lonely...as many can experience



Despite the lonliness any of us might experience at times - I'm grateful you shared your story with us at this time because it helps many others too.



If  you've done research prior to posting, you already know that many others have gone the route before and they share here too.  It's a wonderful community for sharing.



As the expression goes,  " Keep coming back."  LIN

















status offlineEldersSon
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Linda wrote:
imageimage
 While I would doubt you have all the answers to any religion...I'm so happy you found us on one of those days when life seems so lonely...as many can experience

 Despite the lonliness any of us might experience at times - I'm grateful you shared your story with us at this time because it helps many others too.

 If  you've done research prior to posting, you already know that many others have gone the route before and they share here too.  It's a wonderful community for sharing.

 As the expression goes,  " Keep coming back."  LIN
 thank you, I don't know all the answers, I do understand much of every religion I study, (because when boiled down to their very core...lies have not changed, just their delivery) for a reason, does truth need defending?...indeed it does. I believe I have a very keen perspective of especially the JW organization, my father was a higher up in their "'eschelon" as I stated I met Knorr when I was young their president in the early 60's, my fathers library I have now is huge and almost every book ever published by them from the early "Herald of the Morning" to the latter "Awake" and "Watchtower" publications. I knew several other higher ups who's kids went to work at Bethel (their printing organization in Brooklyn) through my father, I have had to correct many a so-called ex JW's when their doctrines didn't match up with JW doctrine I know and study. No harm I l0ike to understand all, and if I am wrong on certain things.. well as I always say, "I would rather be proven wrong so I may know the truth, as opposed to thinking I am right all the time" Knowledge is a journey... My journey through religion to find truth has been long and arduous indeed...I'm not sure if I am even finished... what I thought as true Christianity is not true just a mere 10 years ago!

 


Last Edited By: EldersSon Dec 25 13 8:31 PM. Edited 2 times.


status offlineCacky
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I'm sorry your brothers have turned on you so badly. Not very Christlike, is it? It never ceases to amaze me the things I hear jws saying and doing to others. And they say they have the truth! anyway, welcome to the board, it's nice to meet you.


status offlinebelladiane
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Welcome! Im glad you made it here. I and most all of us here know what your going through. I was dfed this past may. It was and the most tramatic event that i had ever and ontinue to deal with. But when it gets too bad, i come here. You are a wonderful person and you dont need anyone to confi.rm that....always do the right thing . My best friend i have now has never been in the borg...but she was the one who was there for me when my world came crashing down. Go out and meet people...volunteer and you will see that you are never alone
 Diane


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Good Morning, Elder SonG'day Crazy I love all these icons that are so cute.


My gosh, I couldn't image being around those crazy fucks in the days of Knorr...apparently you aren't that youngCrazy so that's why it's Crikey! that you are posting, helping others find freedom from religious abuse.



I'd agree that the lies never change -  it's just a different spin on the same old rhetoric.



Because many of us study different belief systems for research...and yes, we do understand that "Knowledge is a Journey", I'd still question as to why you think "Truth" needs defending if it cannot stand on it's own meritsmiley: pimp



At any rate I'm going to defend my own belief system and to hell  with the others that just want control. 



 I do hope however  you  keep coming back and sharing your story. Rockstarhave a great weekend
































status offlineAndriaSyxx
... it's rote learned and inherited hatred ES ...   #8  [-]

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EldersSon wrote:
Thanks...I just needed to get it off my mind, ya know...as for information on JW's.. i am probably one of the best for answers. I study all religions from Bahi to Zoroastrianism, lol all cults of course...anyways it's the holidays and I was feeling down, I am very logical and yet I am still amazed my family would just drop me like that. The pure hatred that comes from them is again astonishing to me...before my mother left we had always been close regardless, even my dad before he passed in 2009 had rekindled our relationship, to the point I took him and my mother to Florida for 2 great vacations, just well like I stated when my dad passed...it's been downhill ever since, to have those closest to me turn away in a blink is still hard to accept. I like people, I like to talk to anyone I meet...indeed I am that guy who says "Hi" to people I see walking down the street, I open doors for complete strangers, I hold them for women, I open the car door for my wife and close it for her, and when we get to our destination, I get out first, and walk to her side to open her door...if I see someone with a flat tire I stop and introduce myself ( I used to not have to do that, but todays world is rather scary for most and I understand this) and ask if they need help! When I walk down the street or walking into the grocery store, if I see some trash on the ground I pick it up and throw it away...I dunno maybe I care too much.. or maybe others care too little. The other day a girl was walking down the stairs where I was visiting, she was carrying a vacuum I offered to carry it to her car, she was very grateful and somewhat shocked someone would actually help her ( I get those looks all the time).. lol I do prattle on...anyways MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and everyone else! (Yes I insist on greeting everyone with a Merry Christmas, not "holidays"..that goes for all holidays!
... the hatred your family has pointed your way, is (as I put in the title line above) a simple case of rote learned and inherited hatred.    It's something the average jdub is so well versed in and so 'inculcated' with ... that they don't see it as hatred.   They see it as love!    Perverse love to normal people like the rest of us in here ... but to the average jdub family, they are taught and sadly seem to believe that shutting out and shunning 'stray' loved ones ... will have the 'stray' loved ones going back to the fold with their tails firmly clenched between their own legs.
NOT always the case ... as is evident by the amount of free spirited freedom lovers in here ....... but perhaps knowing others feel the same way as you, will help ease the sadness that being shunned by loved ones invariably makes us feel.     You are doing what's right for you.   You are not intentionally or unintentionally harming anyone.   You are good to your wife and to strangers .... you are YOU!     Your family are the lost souls ... not you.    So stand tall ... walk tall ... and don't let the negative nellies of that religion hold you back!



"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"


status offlinepunkofnice
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Welcome Elder's son. My father was an Elder too....then I was...then the bubble burst....I saw the WBT$ for the vile cult it actually is.
 Long story short, religion and god are no longer my thing. Leaving the clutches of the manipulative WBT$ has made me suspicious of all faith and faiths.
 A friend of mine once told me something that to this day resonates with me.
 ''A real friend loves you unconditionally through thick and thin. Those friends that leave you because you leave a cult were never real friends in the first place and are not worth it.''
 Enjoy the forum ES.




Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job


      

status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Punkie, Guess I'm following you around this morning smiley: embarassedsmiley: frown before I have to write a letter to my fence-rider's daughter that they really don't understand how their mother has been negatively impacted from that filth of her youth.


A hearty Throw heart kissesto all the posters, new and old..





status offlinemorgana
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Hello elders son
 You are not alone here, welcome to our boarwe all understand where your coming from,


status offlineKBG
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EldersSon wrote:
 My oldest brother who is an elder has told me in front of people,"don't use Bible scriptures on me"
Don't you love this, God gave THEM the bible to use on other people. 

ES,
I wish life could  be easier for you.   I am very active with my church now and its a good fit for me and has given me a large circle of friends.  I've also become quite a gym rat and after 3 years have some friends there too.   Do pursue your beliefs and passions and find those people working toward similar goals.  Keep your chin up pal,  Kevin




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Hello there EldersSon and welcome :-)
Fortunately we have quite a few elders here....and also quite a few elders children.............unfortunately, they are not necessarily related to each other smiley: wink
I salute you for being brave enough to stand up and claim your right to your own life.......it is hard enough when we have been brainwashed from birth, but it must be that much harder when those parents -were so uber-zealous and looked up to by the cong!! 
I'm glad you found us, and I hope that being able to share, and relate to others will be cathartic to you!!
Sam



"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"


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Thanks all....it was getting near the holidays, and even though I am not a big holiday person.. lol i guess growing up JW instills that no holiday thing in ya...I never remember holidays, well except for the famous ones.. I remember what day Christmas is,I remember that Thanksgiving is the 4th thursday,, ( i could never understand why they didn't celebrate Thanksgiving!), and of course Halloween..but the rest I can never remember, anyways I still like the feeling I get with people being nicer so I was feeling down cause being abandoned by my family. I got to say though I always knew there was something wrong with the JW cult. I came up with several funny names for the JW's.. like the plural for jW's is witni lol, and ya know how JW's have "memorials" instead of funerals.. well I always remembered how I was told that some how God wipes the memory of a non witness from their minds so they wouldn't have bad memories of ones who didn't make it after God kills off all witni.. so I thought up this idea that JW's use memory-oil instead of memorial. the elder rub memory oil on witni thus wiping out their memories lol. My cousin and I made up all kinds of funny stuff for them. I  hope I can add some humor to this place for this cult and we can all have a good laugh!
Happy New Year Friends!!
image
 

Last Edited By: EldersSon Jan 3 14 8:28 PM. Edited 1 times.


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Group hug You are among friends here, Elders Son, and I don't mean the kind with plastic, smiling faces like at the KH! Keeping your sense of humor about all things JW is great! I can never remember my 7 non-JW siblings birthdays-- I think I'm JW birthday impaired for life. I have been struggling with the whole extended family holiday thing this year. I love being with my hubby and children for Thanksgiving and Christmas, but after over two years of trying to re-integrate with my extended non-JW family, I have decided that I've had enough. I have disengaged. I'm learning to do what feels right for me. It sounds selfish, but why would anyone want to exchange a lifetime of enslavement for another form of the same?
My older sister text messaged me saying, "I didn't know you weren't going to be here for Christmas." I was out of the country taking a break from 24/7 caregiving for our mom. Well, she didn't ask, so of course, she wouldn't know what is going on in my life or in her own mother's for that matter. I responded, "Merry Christmas!" Enough said.
We celebrated New Year's Eve with my nephew and his fiancé. It was lovely. Since my sister lives out of state, I'm considered the "honorary mom", and I love all of it-- being in on the planning for my nephew's 30th birthday surprise visit from my sister, their engagement party and wedding plans. I'm rebuilding a family where I feel loved, included and wanted. No pressure. No guilt. No drama.



The 14th-century Persian poet Hafiz wrote:
Every child has known God,
Not the God of names,
Not the God of don'ts,
Not the God who ever does anything weird,
But the God who knows only four words,
And keeps repeating them, saying:
"Come Dance with Me."
Come Dance
Last Edited By: SailAway Jan 7 14 10:21 AM. Edited 1 times.


status offline3d808
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We are all friends here ! As far as the crap your brother texted to you, success is the best revenge. Don't forget that ! They want to see you fail so they can say," I told you so". Come here when you need assistance.


status offlinehalf banana
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A warm welcome to the forum ES! We do understand you here and sympathise in a way outsiders cannot imagine.
I agree with 3d's post that success (and I would add happiness as well) outside the org, is one of the best replies to the doomesday cult.
What is amazing about the brainwashing is that the mental pathways formed as a JW are so deep that it takes a long time to eradicate them and be able to think and act freely again.
Things must be tough for you now... but take courage, you have a partner and a mother in law it seems on your side, you can  make good friends who are not JW zombies and you have us as well!
So looking forward to hearing more from you, your extensive knowledge of the workings of the WTBTS will be a great contribution to our site.
hb


status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Hi Elder...glad you posted again but wait, are you surfing around and I've missed a new post?smiley: pimp

   




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New Member...Ex Elder

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offlineDarrin Hart
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Oct 28 13 12:04 PM
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Hello gang,
 Nice to see a great collection of people that have broken free of Jehovah's Witnesses.
 I left the 'organization' about 5 years ago. After over 10 years as an elder, and being used (read abused) at the Circuit and District level, as well as KM School, Pioneer, etc......I realized I needed to proved this was the 'truth' to myself. After jumping on airplanes, visiting grave sites, examining public records in several states, visiting Brooklyn Bethel...... I was left shell shocked and deeply upset. It was obvious, from must a little effort, that I was part of something I now consider a cult.
 Over the past 5 years I've really been focusing on the positive and how I can help others break free from this insidious organization. My goal wasn't just to complain or be bitter, but help others get their thinking straight as to WHY they should leave and also BE HAPPY! It's still a work in progress, but I'm very happy to be focusing on the positive.
 I'm new to the site and hope to contribute and learn from all the other great people here!
 DH
 leavingjehovahswitnesses.org 


  
status offlinebelladiane
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Oct 28 13 2:40 PM
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Well welcome Darrin....nice to have you here and especially nice since you have so much information and we have so many questions that only someone like you....really on the inside would have the ability to answer.
 But I will have to make a list and them post it for you....but nice to meet you and hope to see you here often!


status offlineSailAway
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Oct 28 13 4:05 PM
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image to the forum, Darrin! I checked out your website, it sounds like you were in for about 40 years, as was I. I have been out just over 2 years now, and yes, it is wonderful to be happy and free from cult mind control. No need to be bitter, that doesn't get any of us anywhere!
 I'm always interested to find out what another ex-JW's tipping point was. For me, I was sitting at a Service Meeting, and I just couldn't bear to hear them say one more time that my kids were going to die at Armageddon. I know they didn't say that specifically, but that is what my brain heard when they were droning on about doing more in the ministry, because so many people were going to die. My son is DF'd and my daughter DA'd by her actions. My husband faded over 30 years ago, but he didn't learn TTATT until I did.
 It sounds like you did some real-time detective work before you left! I didn't start my research until months after I decided I was no longer going to be a witness. We all have our own path and story to tell! Did you lose any family  members to the cult? If so, I'm so sorry. I was the last in my immediate family to leave, so I am so lucky! Only my aged JW in-laws remain on the inside.
 Looking forward to getting to know you better, hearing some of your stories and some of your insight from your years inside and outside the organization. This is a cozy corner of the ex-JW Internet community. Stick around, you will soon feel at home here!
  



What is needed for dramatic change is an accumulation of acts, adding, adding to, adding more, continuing. We know that it does not take everyone on Earth to bring justice and peace, but only a small, determined group who will not give up during the first, second, or hundredth gale.
One of the most calming and powerful actions you can do to intervene in a stormy world is to stand up and show your soul. Soul on deck shines like gold in dark times. The light of the soul throws sparks, can send up flares, builds signal fires, causes proper matters to catch fire. To display the lantern of soul in shadowy times like these – to be fierce and to show mercy toward others; both are acts of immense bravery and greatest necessity.
Struggling souls catch light from other souls who are fully lit and willing to show it. If you would help to calm the tumult, this is one of the strongest things you can do.
Excerpts from, You Were Made for This, by Clarissa Pinkola Estes, Ph.D


status offlinealexia
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Oct 28 13 7:02 PM
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Welcome!


status offlineJames the brain
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Oct 29 13 1:35 AM
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Welcome, Mister Hart! Glad to have you aboard! 


status offlinepunkofnice
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Welcome Darrin.
 I too am an ex elder 3years+ out of the WBT$.
 I am now living my life and the WBT$ can take a running jump.
 Glad to have you on board.
 To damage the WBT$'s reputation and thereby hurt them financially, I think the best road is to get information about the truth about them out there. Unwitnessing.




Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job


      

status offlinecalminthestorm
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Oct 29 13 5:56 AM
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hello
 It's great to have you on the board. I look forward to your posts. The fact that you researched so much before leaving is awesome. People would save a lot of heartache is they did that before joining if they are adults. Those of us who were born in just were really unlucky!

Last Edited By: calminthestorm Oct 29 13 5:59 AM. Edited 2 times.


status offlineThe Villain
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Sup.
 Welcome to the board.
 When I first got out of the JWs I actually hopped a plane and went and saw Russell's Pyramid myself. (thats not me in the video)


 Then I went on a research binge and investigated Judge Rutherford:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Franklin_Rutherford
 Once I learned that I went out and researched Beth Sharim.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_Sarim
 Thats when I realized: This is a business. A business that cost me my family, every friend Id ever grown up with, and any social roots. This business cost me my entire life, my inheritance, my future.
 I never regretted leaving. Not even for a second.
 V


status offlinechas
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Oct 29 13 8:45 AM
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Welcome DH, glad to have you on the board. Looking forward to hearing more from you in the future. I too share your goal of helping others stuck in the WTS and find in it some consolation for the time and energy wasted with JWs in the past.


status offlineSailAway
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Oct 29 13 8:48 AM
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Love the video, Villain. It's sincere and from your heart!  image



What is needed for dramatic change is an accumulation of acts, adding, adding to, adding more, continuing. We know that it does not take everyone on Earth to bring justice and peace, but only a small, determined group who will not give up during the first, second, or hundredth gale.
One of the most calming and powerful actions you can do to intervene in a stormy world is to stand up and show your soul. Soul on deck shines like gold in dark times. The light of the soul throws sparks, can send up flares, builds signal fires, causes proper matters to catch fire. To display the lantern of soul in shadowy times like these – to be fierce and to show mercy toward others; both are acts of immense bravery and greatest necessity.
Struggling souls catch light from other souls who are fully lit and willing to show it. If you would help to calm the tumult, this is one of the strongest things you can do.
Excerpts from, You Were Made for This, by Clarissa Pinkola Estes, Ph.D


status offlineDarrin Hart
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Oct 29 13 5:10 PM
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Thank you to everyone!! What a great bunch of people......I hope to learn and share as much as possible!!
 DH
 leavingjehovahswitnesses.org


status offlinewhytebyrd2
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Hi Darrin!
    Welcome
I commented on another thread that you also commented on and want you to know that I'm glad you're here.
 I left the religion after 40 years in (born in) and my reasons initially were that I finally saw the governing body as a bunch of men.  There was of course more but I didn't get on an exJW website for another 3 years.  That just validated what I'd already come to believe about the Watchtower corporation(s). 
Glad you're here.  It's members like you that saw so much and can validate what the rank and file JW experienced and or suspected from watching others and their experiences. 




Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot


status offlineCacky
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Oct 30 13 7:18 AM
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Hello and welcome to the board, Darrin. We like having ex-elders and pioneers and the like on the board. We get more inside information. Do you want to explain if the rest of your family, if you're married, came out with you? Some on here have really lost a lot after discovering the TATT (the truth about "the truth"). It's nice to meet you and nice to have a new member.


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Hi Darrin and welcome to the land of the survivors smiley: smile
We have a few elders here (ex), so I know you won't feel alone, and you may even feel the need to get together and work out a shepherding rota for us lowly ex's smiley: tongue
I always feel a great euphoria when I meet those who I once considered the 'creme de la creme' of the society...........cos if those who had staked their whole life on the religion, and who gave so much,  can be honest enough to face up to the real truth about 'the truth' - there is hope for all those still brainwashed!!
Good to have you here, and look forward to hearing more from you!!
Sam x



"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"


status offlinerawe
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Oct 30 13 6:58 PM
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Hi Darrin,
 Welcome to the forum. There are several forums for Ex-Witnesses around the internet. Some like jehovahs-witness.net (JWN) get a fair bit of daily traffic. Although I'm a bit of a sporadic poster depending on what else is going on in my life, I often find myself back here. It is populated by a great group of people who are truly focused on recovery from the faith, regardless of where that may lead in terms of specific new beliefs.
 For whatever good aspects there may have been in our lives as Witnesses the one basic truth remains and an awful truth it was -- namely, that what Jehovah's Witnesses teach as absolute doctrine is simply not true and on many different fronts, from basics of Christianity, to science, to archaeology, to end-time pronouncements and even their own history.
 Cheers,
 -Randy

Last Edited By: rawe Oct 30 13 7:01 PM. Edited 2 times.


status offlineAndriaSyxx
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G'day Darrin and welcome to our humble abode ............................ it's always great fun to have new people to play with! You'll have heaps of reading to do now you're in here ... so grab yourself a cuppa and off you go!!!
 Feel free to ask as many questions as you want or to contribute ................... there's no obligation and there's no rush.



"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"

   




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Over Two Years....

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offlineImHavingABadDay
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Apr 10 14 12:52 PM
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     It's been over two years since I've stepped foot in a Kingdom Hall...and on Monday I'll be attending the memorial.
                     In 2012 my life took a turn. I, a female baptized publisher in the congregation, got a girl friend. Why? Because at the time I loved her, I lusted after her even. I was a junior in a high school, and raised as one of Jehovah's Witnesses since birth. But as I reached my teen's, I couldn't help but disagree with their views on the LGBTQ community. Even before my baptism a pioneer sister would come once a week to give me a bible study. Since I was brought up in the religion, why would I have to be some pioneer's pet project? But I could never get out of it. But there was one lesson where she spoke of "Homosexuals" as being "perverse, and disgusting." Even then I had some gay or lesbian friends, and they seemed no different to me than anyone else. Eventually I got baptized a year after some class mates. It moved me, and so I went along. Everyone was so proud of me....it was such a mistake. Thinking now, I can't even remember what year I was baptized in. I believe it was January 2012, but I'm not sure.
                   Anyway, back to 2012. I had gotten a girl friend. She lived states away, so it was online. I had a lot of online friends, and it took years to convince my family they were real and not some pedophile. But the fact is that most people outside the congregation don't want to kill you, or sleep with you. My mother didn't know about the relationship, but my younger sister found out through an art site her and I used. I don't know if she told my mother or what, but one day my mother drove me home from school, parked by our house, and sobbed, telling me she knew about Rene(not her real name) and I. That led to a Sheparding call not long after. They seemed surprised when they counseled me on lusting after men, and my reaction was blank faced, that is was a girl I showed my affections to. My uncle was an elder at the time, and still is to this day. It wasn't long before the news reached him. I remember one day we were playing the board-game "Life" and when it came time to get married I gave my little pink player a blue one to ride along with. My uncle looked at me and said something along the lines of "What, you're not choosing a wife?" in angry tone. It was then my paranoia set in. I felt like everyone knew, like everyone judged. My mother spoke me to differently, the parents of other teen my age looked at me with scorn. It was then I stopped attending meetings. My mother insisted that wasn't the case. But to this day I do not believe her.
                
                The only solace I had was in my friends, my "wordly" friends. But due to the fact that one of them was a girl my age and her bisexual boyfriend, she cut my ties with them. Limited my phone, my internet. I had no ties with anyone outside the congregation. No one to talk to but judging eyes. It was then the cutting began. It wasn't really cutting, not that you would traditionally think of any way. I disassembled a clothespin and scratched raw red lines on my arm. One for every day I had no one to turn to. One for every day I was supposed to "pray to feel better." Then one day I left. I walked down the street to my brothers workplace. I have two older ones. The eldest is a witness. The second hasn't been for years. (We will name the eldest Dan and the younger Cole.) Once at Cole's work I told him all that had happened. It was then that I moved into his place. I lived with him for maybe a few weeks, spending my birthday there, being able to talk to my friends, and finally getting in contact with Rene, who was worried sick over me. But in early June, near the end of the school year, Cole had to go on a trip. He had planned it long before anything had happened, and I had to stay with my mother once again. I dreaded it. He was only gone for four days or so. Dan lived in the house across from us, and I was sure he noticed my absence. Before I had left he cam into my room on evening and began spitting scripture at me. Speaking about Sodom and Gomorrah. Asking if I "really didn't think he'd find out." I cried, out of fear, though I'm he took it as guilt and left. Now that I had returned he came into my room in the morning. He tried to pull me out of my room he "just wanted to talk". I was screaming, crying, all out of fear. I tried to use my phone, to call 911, to call Cole, but Dan took it. I had seen him mad before. He had thrown lawnmowers, thrown our dog across the living room, and now I was his target. My mother got in the way, protecting me, but Dan grabbed her arm, the one she had recently broken and just had surgery on. She yelled out in pain, he didn't stop. I ran out of the house and climbed a tree, like I had done so many times before to get away. By this time my younger sister had gotten the phone and given back to me. I called Cole, in tears. He said I had to go to the hospital. I argued, but was in no mental or physical state to properly object. He called his ex wife, a woman who remained a close family friend, and she drove me to the hospital, mom following us in another car. I was submitted into the psych ward at around 6 pm on a Saturday. In the middle of the night I talked with a social worker, and at around 12pm on Sunday, I was moved to a rehab center. It was full of "troubled teens". Kids who cut, kids who fought, kids who drank. And it helped, the hospital helped me. I had few visitors, mostly only my mother. Once my Aunt and Uncle did visit for an hour or two, my Uncle's only words to me were "When are you coming back to the hall?"
             When I finally got out school was over for the year and my mother had given me back my friends, though I still couldn't go to the meetings. The very thought of it gave me panic attacks. But I attended gatherings and parties, and no one treated me differently. Then Dan got engaged. For me to be in the wedding I had to attend all the meetings. So I went to all the Sunday meetings I could, crying through the songs, and gripping onto the chair for dear life otherwise. Running to the car when the last prayer concluded. Dan didn't care if I was in pain, he was saving face. He had always cared about image after all. So eventually he got married and I cried at the reception. Though now I know it wasn't him who necessarily cared if I went to those meetings. It was my our Uncle. Uncle had not wanted me in the wedding, but Dan did, so they compromised, again, not caring for my mental health. Then I graduated High School, and I would have loved to have it with my school friends. And by now those friends I had longed to be with before, I was dating the boy, the girl and I grew apart, since he was her ex-boyfriend and all that. But my mother didn't approve so I had a graduation party with witnesses. The only teenage girl my age did not attend, since her parents did not think I was a good example. And yet earlier that year I was practically required to go to hers. The last function I attended was a housewarming party for Dan and his new wife. I haven't been around a group of Witnesses since. In late July of that year my mother kicked me out and I again moved in with Cole. Two months later, Cole moved in with his girlfriend and I moved in with my boyfriend and his parents. During that time my mother and her long time boyfriend had gotten disfellowshipped. Last July my boyfriend and I moved into an apartment. And another witness I had been close to, and one who never abandoned me, got dissfellowshipped with his girl friend. And currently we are moving again and my younger sister lives with Dan. I cannot express how scared I am because of this. Dan and his wife have never wanted children, so why they would take in a Teenager is beyond me. I also cannot see why my mother agreed to such a thing. My sister is forbidden to speak with me, though she often does anyway and got in trouble for it, and is hardly aloud to speak with our mother. The only kids her age in the hall are boys, so she gets in trouble for talking with them. And since Dan and his wife taker her electronics away because she speaks with me, she cannot talk to other young sisters her age in different halls. And she was only recently baptized. She is the same age I was when everything happened. I can see Dan and his wife pushing her where he helped push me. And there is no one there to protect her. It pains me to sit idly by while they take way her freedom and her uniqueness. In fact, the last time I felt this helpless is when I began my self harm.
          Only last year did the elder's announce my dissassociation. I hadn't ever given them a letter, even though I said I would. But it was clear I wasn't coming back. Now after all that time and after all that pain I am attending the memorial. Why? Because it is something I believe in. I may not agree with some of the teachings, or the rules the Witnesses have. And I am convinced that many do what they do blindly or to save face. but after all that I have come to terms with who I am, and what I believe. If anything now, I am curious to see what people will say to me. I work in a local grocery store so many witnesses see me. Some, even elders wives, speak with me as if nothing's changed. Others ignore me even when I'm scanning their groceries.

          And if you are wondering where my father is through all this, he was disfellowshipped when I was very young. But that is a different story all together. Now he and I are close. I apologize for such a long story, but everything in it is true.


  
status offlineKBG
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Apr 10 14 6:04 PM
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Hi Having,
 Welcome I hope I can be a sounding board for you, and others here will want to be here for you too!
 As for your story.... Wow....wow... Did I say Wow yet??? You've had some really rough times to go thru with no strong allies in your corner. I'm glad you at least had Cole to help you when you needed it most. My mother had to help raise her younger siblings when her own mother bailed on them. It didn't work out well, she feels bad about not being able to do enough for them, but she was practically a kid herself.
 You don't really speak to how you see the contradictions resolving. If you think the way the Watchtower portrays LGBTQ is unkind and misleading, why are you going back? Is it for family? What are the real reason you are going back? What do you believe that is taking you back if you also disagree with many of their beliefs.
 I ask the above question to help you think it through. Not to pressure you and say you ought to leave or you should go back. There were many years that I stayed in it for family, even though I didn't believe the Watchtower BTS was THE TRUE RELIGION anymore.
 Whatever you decide, I do wish you a happy life. And I can give you ear to talk/type thru what you are thinking.
 Hugs, K


status offlineImHavingABadDay
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Apr 10 14 6:41 PM
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I'm not going back. Just going to the memorial this year. Since my mothers been DF'd she has been so much more supporting. My boyfriend and I are actually moving into her house since she will be moving in with her boy friend. Even though I left, and I love that I left, there are still some things I believe in, or things I value what I was taught. And though if any one asks I would tell them I'm Christian, but I my boyfriend and I have some Native American roots, so we are trying to find our way back to them. But the memorial is something I believe in, honoring Jesus death. Just because his death led to a bunch of crazy elders and brainwashed kids shouldn't stop me from that. Since I was raised as a JW for so long some things are hard to let go, but I'm slowly finding my own religious self. But the memorial is something I still think I should still respect, because I don't personally think Jesus is myth. Do I think that he was truly the son of God or that his death payed for all of our sins, I don't really know. But I believe he lived a hellish life and I respect that fact by going to the memorial.

 I am so proud I've found this community because there isn't anyone to talk to about this stuff. I talk to my boyfriend about it, since his mom was a crazy christian too, but not a JW, so he get's some of it but not all of it. My sister is recently baptized and only wants me back. And my mother doesn't know what she wants religiously. So I finally found a place to open up! WOO HOO! Thanks guys!


status offlineRaine
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Apr 10 14 11:08 PM
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Welcome
I'm so glad you came here to share your story. It's brave and will help others as they relate to you.
It's been 17 years since I left. But I keenly remember what it was like to be the target of JW gossip (slander). All of them would rather believe what was said behind my back. And judge me. Not one of them came to me to ask what the truth is. It was completely isolating and damaging. I can relate to your experience in that way.
Honestly though, it is so reflective of how JW's believe and behave overall. They are told by the Watchtower that they are the truth, the way and the light. Everything in all the publications from the awake to the bible is absolute truth. Never question, never seek the actual truth. What if I told you the memorial isn't what we thought it was. All it takes is a little research and.. Well it shook me up when I went down the research path. And I mean that in a good way. Please don't get me wrong. I don't want to dissuade you. You have every right to go and every right to believe in what you want. I will always support a persons right to choose and do what makes them fulfilled and happy within themselves and about themselves.
But I do want to say that to ask questions and seek answers and then research those answers to corroborate. Is one of the greatest gifts we have as humans. Knowledge truly is power. We can only go on that journey when we are ready. And just know that we'll be here for you.
You've been through a lot so (((Hugs))) and I truly hope your life has peace and happiness now and in the future. Looking forward to reading more of your posts.
All the best






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I would consider myself foolish if I listened to someone who refused to listen to me. 

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Hey Having and welcome!
 Being young and going through what we have is completely unique in this world and thank goodness it is! I'm very happy to see you getting these things off your chest. This is a beginning of a very important healing process for you. You should definately embrace life for what you feel is right for yourself. Many people will feel shame for something they shouldn't because of dogma that has been shoved down their throats for a lifetime. If you believe in God as I do, you should know that he/she created you to be exactly what you are. You are perfect to him/her. Everything else is a lie.
 You can hold onto core values that you learned without having to conform to another groups standards. I read a great quote once:
 "Sitting in a church(or Kingdom Hall) doesn't make you a christian any more than sitting in a barn makes you a cow."
 In other words, These places are full of hipocrites like your brother Dan. Christians ought not to be abusive. That's evil. Not from God.
 I don't usually say this because I feel like people should find their path in their own way, But I would stay away from the Memorial if I were you, esp. given the anxiety you feel. You can hold your own memorial in your heart everyday. And that's infinately more important than sitting in a room full of sinners who refuse to agknowledge that that's what they are.
 Anyway I'm glad you found us!
 Love ya
 Marked


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Hello there and welcome :-)
Hope that your days just got better for finding us lot smiley: smile

I talk to my boyfriend about it, since his mom was a crazy christian too, but not a JW, so he get's some of it but not all of it
I totally get that.......it was just how I felt when I first found this place!!  My 'worldly' hubby has had to listen to my rants about my upbringing  for many years and, although he sympathised and tried to understand the anomalies of the religion, he never totally 'got' it....
So to find a whole community of people from all over the world who did get it, who spoke the same 'language' was an amazing feeling!
I understand your wanting to attend the memorial and see the reactions, but I just hope that their narrow-minded views and attitudes don't cause you even more discomfort!!  D/a'd...D/f'd....however they label us, they have to stay within their 'safety' zones, which mean treating us how they are told, as 'mentally diseased' smiley: sick   To allow interaction between active jw's and anyone who is finally thinking for themselves is way too dangerous for them to contemplate ....
The organisation try so hard to isolate us when we dare to question, but thanks to the internet and sites like this, that is no longer the way it has to be.....finally we have no need to feel alone in the real world......and I am pleased that you have been brave enough to take back control of your life and also to tell some of your story.......
Good to have you here, and I hope you enjoy 'letting of steam' smiley: smile
Sam x


"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"


status offlineImHavingABadDay
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It was actually pretty boring....
 I went through with it and attended the Memorial on Monday night. I don't know what I was expecting, but I felt virtually nothing. I think the most awkward part was when the young brother my sister likes kept looking over at me and then to her. I just wanted to go over and say to him "Yes, she is my little sister. Yes, I am that disfellowshipped girl you've probably heard about. But if you don't stop staring at her I'm going to sink my high heels into your face." Other wise I just kept making sarcastic remarks to my mother, who is also DF'ed. When they were praying over the wine the brother said something along the lines of "And we all have decided to turn away from a life of sin..." And I leaned over to my mom and whispered, "Well...not ALL of us made that decisions." It was all she could do to not interrupt the prayer. My aunt saw me though and got really happy. I'm just hoping that she doesn't take it as a sign of me coming back. Because I never want to be in there or around those people again.
 Oh right...one other funny thing was that on the wall it had this year's quote "Let your kingdom come". It really sounds like they are just begging for it to happen at this point, but maybe that's just me.
 And thank's for all the welcome's, I really appreciate it :)


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Hi ImHavingABadDay and welcome to the forum. I guess I haven't seen your first post and haven't properly welcomed you. I am glad that you found this forum since it is a safe and comfortable place to land after being in the Borg. I give you kudo's to be able to attend the memorial since I myself have decided that I probably would embarrass myself if I were to attempt it. I am also very happy that you have your Mom to support you in your choices in life. Even though mine didn't support my choices they at least didn't shun me which made a big difference to me.
 Keep on posting here we love to hear from new ones.


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Hi and welcome to the board. I hope you enjoy your visits around here.

   




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TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilouge)

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status offlineAllTimeJeff
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #21  [-]

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One day, I will do a post on the monster the GB created by forming bodies of elders in each congregation. Ray Franz, in his book Crisis of Conscience, talked about the power struggle that resulted in 1975 when the GB, (the most powerful body of elders in the borg) finally exercised authority and stripped Knorr of his one man authority. That happened frequently in the early 70's when switching from a single elder to a group of elders..... Since that time, the power within the borg has become increasingly de-centralized. To compensate, greater authority has been given to CO's and DO's.......
In your case Liezel, the elder who let that "slip" illustrates the difficulty the GB has in keeping everyone in line. Technically, how many magazines a person places should have nothing to do with a judicial proceeding. However, elders are to take into account an individuals past service, their previous level of spirituality. There isn't much of an interpretation beyond that. While it stretches credibility to think elders would look at magazine placements as a way to gauge spirituality, there is no doubt that once appointed, an elder has great latitude to use his judgement in such areas. If for him, one evidence of spirituality is what someone places as far as magazines, then the other elders might argue (or agree) with him. But he is allowed. Judicial proceedings are closed door, and it is near impossible to change anything, even the GB can't. Too many elders in too many congregations handling too many judicial cases. The only thing that the GB can do is keep it ultra silent and secretive.
Jeff
The good old days weren't always good
And tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems
-Billy Joel


status offlineMrMig
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #22  [-]

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How pitiful it all sounds.


status offlineAllTimeJeff
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #23  [-]

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I just want to say that I feel really free! Mentally, knowing that they didn't announce my resignation until this week was getting to me just a little.
In any case, I will forever call it me resigning, because I did it on my terms, not theirs. If they want to call it "disassociation" (another phrase not in the bible) then FU*K them! I left because they are freaking loons.
It's time to embrace my inner apostate! :coffees
Jeff
The good old days weren't always good
And tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems
-Billy Joel


status offlineLiezel RD
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #24  [-]

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Dec 14 06 7:54 PM
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Jeff, I hope you keep posting even when things get busier for you with study. You have so many insights. I hope you do take the opportunity to study. My lack of much education is a regret to me and I don't think it can be outweighed by a promotion in the long term. In the long term nothing can replace a good education. When I was your age I was still in "the Truth" still thinking that Armageddon was drawing ever closer - I didn't see the point but boy do I see it now!!
One thought came to me as I was puddling through my chores today ( It's my day off - I only get one day a week off) There is a real trap stepping up from a small buget to what seems like a enoronous amount of money from a weekly or monthly wage. Suddenly it seems as if we can pay off any amount of credit card debt, and if the job doesn't last - oops! Hope you don't step into that one. Comapny cars are wonderful aren't they - especially when they are fully maintained! I wish I had one again.
I asked about magazine placements for a specific reason. Maybe you an guess where I was going with that one - but that's for another time.
When I was in my "death throws" in "the Truth" I was still naively thinking that I could sort out maters by clarifying the events as they really were. I kept on calling for meetings with the Elders and kept on giving them more and more information. Information they did nothing with.They did not seem to understand that I was wanting them to actually do something with the information. Finally I informed them of my intentions to go higher up and that I would be needing to see the CO in order to proceed. The Elder I was talking to on the phone at the time really surprised me. He was the model of virtue and patience but it ran out at that moment. He cautioned me that I was now stepping into a very dangerous area for my spiituallity and on top of that came a torrent of his personal disappointments he had over judicial cases, and his disgust in their outcome. He almost "vomited" the words out. He kept saying over and over again "I'm so sick of it _ I'm so sick of it"
That was the last time I ever spoke with an Elder. I sometimes wonder if he was on the brink of leaving himself. Your story gives me hope that he has.
I must say I never wrote "the letter" What could I possibly owe them. No-one even noticed me leaving i - in your case it is different.
Congratulations Congratulations Congratulations and just for something different -Congratulations on your new found freedom.
Liezel


status offlinekenyadiget
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #25  [-]

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Dec 14 06 8:54 PM
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Quote:
I left because they are freaking loons.
:rollin
I love it! And yes they are.
Rachel


Be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.


status offlineAtjeff
   #26  [-]

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Holy Cow! I forgot, I thought this was a month after I put in my letter. November sucked that year.
 This is partly why I came back, to check on the bread crumbs I left behind. They are all on this board. :)


status offlineRaine
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Welcome back. :D
 Looking back can be an interesting experience. Especially when it's sort of documented. Instead of vague memories that are tied up into strong emotion.
 How are you now?


I Ctrl+Alt+Deleted My Religious Programming  

"It is better to live one day as a lion, than a hundred years as sheep"

I would consider myself foolish if I listened to someone who refused to listen to me. 

status offlinesolitaire
   #28  [-]

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It can be weird to read our older threads and feel again the mindset we were in when we wrote them originally!!  I remember a few years back accidentally resurrecting my first ever post (I had tried to edit it for posterity, cos it was all in one paragraph) and 'hearing' the excitement and relief I had felt at finding so many other people who understood my past......
I do think that it can be a good thing for us though, cos its so easy to forget just how far we have travelled along this long road out of the mind-numbing organisation............and besides, I really enjoyed reading this thread cos it was the year before I found this site....but thankfully you were around for a while after, and I got to appreciate your story and how deeply it affected me...((Hugs)  Sam xx 



"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"


status offlineAtjeff
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Sam, I love that I have a hard copy of hose experiences. My posts are like journal entries to me.
 Raine, overall, I am well. :)


status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Atjeff wrote:
Holy Cow! I forgot, I thought this was a month after I put in my letter. November sucked that year.
 This is partly why I came back, to check on the bread crumbs I left behind. They are all on this board. :)
.............. it's a great way to track your progress Jeff!     



"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"


status offlineinspecterD
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My bad. I started reading page 1 and was intrigued and then discovered it was a post started in 06. LOL Still a good post. I appreciated your comment Andria "it's a great way to track your progress Jeff". So...I went back and reviewed mine. Cool. It is kinda neat to see your own mindset during a difficult and emotional time period. Progress!!! 


status offlineCacky
   #32  [-]

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Nice to see you about again, Jeff. Did you get to go to school?


status offlineAtjeff
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No, didn't go back to school. But I did get a real good job that I enjoy. Online schooling is definitely on the menu though. :)


status offlineAndreaIsFree
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Glad to hear you are doing well Jeff. Always enjoyed your posts and logic! Feel free to share more of what has been happening the past 7 years --- wow, can't believe it was that long ago.


status offlineCacky
   #35  [-]

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I remember reading a whole lot of Jeff's posts when I first left. That's back when I was in kind of a mania after learning TTAT and was reading everything I could get my hands on, and he had a lot of posts that I read.


status offlinesolitaire
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Me too Cathy!!
Infact some of them I printed off and kept in my 'ex-jw file' lol!!  When I first came to this site I couldn't get over the fact that what I used to think of as the 'hierarchy' of the org could also leave!!  After always being told that only the 'weak' and the 'hangers-on' left the religion, it did me no end of good to see that no matter how high up the tree of the org you were, once your eyes are opened to the real truth that is irrelevant............
So when I first discovered that Jeff was one of those who went to Gilead, and had been dedicating his life to 'serving where the need was greater', it gave me such a boost to hear how he came to escape!! smiley: smile



"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"


status offlinesolitaire
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With regard to my above post, I have found one of the older posts that Jeff made that touched me so much.........I know he won't mind me putting it out here again, it is just as relevant as when he first posted it, and some of these older posts are of course missed by the ones who have joined since.......so thanks Jeff xxx  smiley: smile
  
Every now and then when I visit this forum, I feel an obligation to tell what I can and be supportive. Of course, my JW experience, esp the last 3 years of it leading up to Gilead, going to Africa, coming back and resigning from the group, has absolutely drained me to the point that I contribute when I can, but it isn't very much. It is very tiring for me, but also cathartic at the same time to come here and share what I can.
It is in that spirit that I write this now, a desire to demystify JW's, those who leave, and the current doctrine that this group teaches, esp for those who are newly investigating this group for their own reasons.
I was in the 119th class of Gilead in 2005. From the time I graduated, it was another year or so before I resigned. In that time, all the pieces came together.
JW's are taught and conditioned to respect their visible leaders, even though they pay lip service to Jesus as their leader. I got to see the 'pecking' order, and after I graduated, briefly joined it. My status shot up to an all time high. I was respected, even loved, because I went to Gilead and went to Africa. I thought that would be nice, although when I actually went through it, it really offended me.
Sorry for the above rambling/prelude. The whole point of this is how JW's use and understand the bible. You see, on a very fundamental, foundational level, the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses (GB) don't use the bible the way JW's teach it at the door. I learned at Gilead that for the "mature" ones who "dine on solid spiritual food" (i.e. the highly indoctrinated zealots), the bible is all about "Christs brothers". Please note that when the Watchtower says "Christs brothers" they mean the GB. They mean the leadership. They mean, be obediant to us, or you will be diobediant to Jehovah... and his son, whats his name?? Jesus!
It is little wonder that this is the last thing one learns as they start studying with JW's. It starts with paradise, living forever, Jehovah, Jesus, living a moral life, loving the congregation, replacing your family with the congregation, THEN, after you have developed some level of infatuation with this group and have undergone a sufficient amount of love bombing, you are introduced to the highly doubtable concepts of congregation authority, how Jehovah mysteriously rules through Jesus and this group of men Jesus inspected in 1918 and found them superior to every other Christian group on the planet.
If you buy it, you want in, you get baptized. But remember, you are still new, still a babe, still "immature". All of this is code for: One who is not ready to really study and accept how the leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses use the bible to their own self serving means.
It means you are still a babe to the fact that JW's really teach that practically ALL "faithful" OT charecters from Noah and Abraham through Elijah and Elishah and David to Hezekiah are prophetic of the Presidents of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. The one I refer to the most is as an answer to one of the questions on a Gilead test, Elijah prophetically pointed to Judge Rutherford, Elisha pointed to N H Knorr. That is my favorite, that is when I realized I was mislead. But to be fair, JW's teach that most all of these characters refer to the leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses, the Governing Body. (GB)
"Mature" JW's is a misnomer. It has nothing to do with maturity. That is code for "willingness to believe whatever you are taught, and to follow whatever the GB says, even if they change back and forth on doctrine in a god-dishonering fasion." Mature ones are impatient with the immature for questioning what they are taught. Mature ones become elders, ministerial servants and pioneers more quickly because they blindly obey. To question, esp after any period of time elapsing after baptism, means you are "immature".
Of course, this is all so self serving within the group. Another layer of indoctrination and peer pressure to keep everyone in line. Gilead "taught" me this. I learned that within the GB world view, it is scriptural to be nutty about anything the WT says, but to leave your brother cold and miserable and naked if they disagree with a teaching or doctrine.
I know that there are some who don't and won't believe what I just said. That is their right. There will always be some people who are susceptible to high control groups and cults. But to those who were raised as JW's, to those who for some reason accepted and bought a bill of goods that they found wasn't real, they should know the truth about "the truth". They should know how cynically the bible is used by the leadership of this group to their own ends.
They should know that to the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, the bible isn't about you. It isn't about Jehovah. It isn't about Jesus. Its all about them, the Governing Body, "Christs brothers", the Faithful and Discreet Slave. It's all about them, for them, and it is a sham. They are as prophetic as dead skin. THAT is what I learned at Gilead. THAT is what the bible is all about to the leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses.
I welcome all who come on this forum, those in pain, those trying to improve after leaving, whether that be voluntarily or involuntarily. I don't comment much when you first come on, but my thoughts and best wishes are with you all.



"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
Last Edited By: solitaire Apr 3 14 12:59 AM. Edited 1 times.


status offlineCacky
   #38  [-]

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I'm glad you reposted this, Sam. This is something those just getting out would do good to learn.


status offlineSwingLifeAway
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Wow I miss Jeff. What a fantastic post.


-Dave
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy.' They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
 - John Lennon


status offlineMarked for life
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Fantastic insight! more proof that they are just a bunch of egocentric self serving old men! I look forward to trampling on the ashes of the WBTS one day!!

   




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TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilouge)

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offlineAllTimeJeff
TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilouge)
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Dec 12 06 5:38 PM
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It has been over 2 months since I first handed in my letter of resignation, and have had to deal with an unbelievable amount of crap, mostly because my ex-wife and the elders didn't recognize my letter, so I had to write another one. The elder who I mailed the letter to called me wanting to record my saying that I wanted to leave.. (can you believe that shit? I bet he feels bad now in letting me know that he recorded conversations like that in the past. He was so obvious, you could even hear the "ding" from his recorder... :rolleyes )
It is 7:35 Eastern time in the USA as I write, and in one hour, they will anounce that I am no longer one of JW! AT LAST!!!
God/Satan/Whoever has really "blessed" me since all this began. I walked into a great job, and after one month, my manager came up to me today and said the company is interested in training me for management! (I still want to go to college, so I probably won't take it) Just think, to have the freedom to work hard and do something instead of waiting for the mysterious YHWH to bless your little one horse janitorial business. Yay!!
Here is to the rest of my life! :partyone
Jeff
The good old days weren't always good
And tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems
-Billy Joel


  
status offlineKingsmeg
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #1  [-]

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Quote:
instead of waiting for the mysterious YHWH to bless your little one horse janitorial business.
:rollin :rollin :rollin
Jody
de La Rochefoucauld - There is nothing more horrible than the murder of a beautiful theory by a brutal gang of facts.


status offlineUnregistered(d)
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #2  [-]

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Dec 12 06 5:58 PM
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Congratulations on your official df'ing Jeff! :drumming
I have a feeling there are TONS more things to look forward to in your future.. like a million more things.. no! a billion more things! No! A Brazillian more things!
Yay for you, and good job on a proposed promotion after just one month at your new job. You are a star!
:bunny
Oh, you know when the world ends
Im going to take you aside and say
Lets watch it fade away, fade away. And the worlds done
Ours just begun
Its done
Ours just begun -DMB


status offlineNakedJim
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #3  [-]

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Congrats Jeff! As I can tell you are already well aware, it all gets better from here. BTW... I don't think I've told you this yet, but your story is fascinating. Thank you for the inside look that many of us never saw. It's a real eye opener.
Jim


status offlinehoochi mama
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #4  [-]

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:partyone :party :partyone :party :partyone :kisses
- Janet
Human beings alone possess a fundamental moral grasp of the difference between right and wrong, without which they might proceed through life indiscriminately doing right. - Thorax
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status offlineIntruderND
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #5  [-]

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Dec 12 06 8:34 PM
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Good show! Jolly good show!

__________________________

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status offlineRelieved
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #6  [-]

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I'm happy for you:fireworks
Dorothy
"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."
 - Richard Bach


status offlineGrainne Uaile
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #7  [-]

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Dec 13 06 5:17 AM
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:partyone :party one:partyone :party one:partyone :party one:waves :waves :waves :clap :clap :clap


status offlineLiezel RD
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #8  [-]

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Dec 13 06 7:29 AM
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Hi Jeff. thank you so much for your welcome."Naked Jim" said that your story was very intersting with many insights that many of us had never seen. Can I strill click on to your story?
Liezel


status offlinenewoman
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #9  [-]

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:congrats Jeff!:partyone
You've come so far and I'm so glad you're happy and doing so well! Good luck in your future! (We can say that now!;) )


status offlinepaleamethyst
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #10  [-]

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Dec 13 06 3:34 PM
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Liezel, you can read Jeff's story here
Jeff's story
Now you can breathe Jeff.
Welcome to the other side.
:friends2


status offlinejoshcolio
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #11  [-]

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I'm proud of you, my brother. And kudos on your arising job opportunities. As I said on the phone, it speaks of your good work ethic. Best of luck, my friend, and an official welcome to the real world!
Peace and much love,
Josh
"Think as I think,' said a man, 'or you are abominably wicked; You are a toad.' And after I had thought of it, said,'I will, then, be a toad." - Stephen Crane


status offlineleahbadia
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #12  [-]

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Dec 13 06 5:22 PM
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:birthday4
Well it is a birthday of sorts! Congratulations and I hope satan keeps blessing your efforts! ;) lol


status offlineTranquility Moon
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #13  [-]

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Congratulations and welcome to your new future!
:bigghug


status offlineYammerHammer
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #14  [-]

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Dec 13 06 7:32 PM
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Praise RALPH you people, for one more is saved!
They can take nothing from you now!
Yamms.


status offlineOhLordie
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #15  [-]

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Congrats Jeff:party How does it feel breathing truly free air?
Laurie


status offlineAllTimeJeff
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #16  [-]

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Thanks to all! I am happy and relieved....
TODAY: An old friend (I still like her anyway) calls and leaves the nastiest message on my voice mail. Asking me how she was going to explain this to her 2 kids, (thats right, I am going to stay in a cult and a horrible marriage so that you can continue to keep your kids brainwashed. Oh and let me guess, if they leave, it will all be my fault... actually, that would be nice)
This family is the breathing definition of "stressed out borg family". Family study once a week, both kids baptized (way too young, I have a feeling the son won't stick with it, the daughter might) weekend service, dad an oppresive elder/father. So I leave and wreck their illusion. (I WAS a missionary, and they sooo pointed that out to their kids, telling them how happy I was... lol)
But I digress. About halfway through the message, I deleted it. She already sinned talking to a disfellowshipped person, it was her way of getting the last word in. I sure hope she enjoyed talking to my voice mail. I hope it didn't talk back to her. Ciao! And thanks again for all the good wishes. My heartfelt wishes for all of you tonight are for your happiness too. We all deserve it! :friends2
Jeff
The good old days weren't always good
And tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems
-Billy Joel


status offlineariker
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #17  [-]

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Hahahah, you should have saved the massage for the other elders, congrats. Sorry, I'm replying to two posts at once, hahahaha.


status offlineMrMig
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #18  [-]

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Hahaha, Ariker you're pure evil! I love it. Jeff, so proud of you, and so happy to hear you're planning on going to college. I'm in my last year in Biology and Psychology, I'm 35 and can't wait for grad school!!


status offlinepaleamethyst
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #19  [-]

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Jeff- thank God for delete buttons hey?!
And thank goodness you had the sense to press it.
Yay for Jeff!



status offlineLiezel RD
Re: TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilo   #20  [-]

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Thank you Pale Amethyst for the link to Jeff's story. I needed to read that. I am blown away just like I am with each one of these stories I read.
Jeff, I am thinking that your new career will be most enjoyable - it is ideal for people like us, we may not have had much of an education but we have well honed people skills - like you have said - you are "taking the good, and leaving the rest" as far as your "theocratic training" is concerned. Dare I call it training? You know what I mean. I am so happy that you still are young enough to educate yourself now and sinse you no longer have to cater to the demands of an emotionally unhinged woman, this will make it easier to concentrate on "where you are going" I'm sure wherever that is , your life is going to fill up with positive things.
I have a question for you. When Elders are called to "look at a matter" are they instructed to check how many magazines publishers are placing before they decide how to "disipline" or "deal with" the publishers situation? One Elder let something slip one time and I put it aside at the time, but I'm remembering it now. For me it opens up a whole other can of worms, that I would slowly like to get to the bottom of.
Liezel

   




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TONIGHT: They are annoucing my dissasociation (The epilouge)

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status offlinehalf banana
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Apr 10 14 8:20 AM
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Thank you Sam for re-posting this. It only confirms our understanding of their paranoid conceit in imagining that the Bible is only about them...ugh, the insanity of it all!
 ATJeff; we would all love to hear how your Gilead experience led you to see the folly of the religion. How did you manage in Africa when you realised you could not preach their message? What was the breaking point? What did you do?



A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
 Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s  Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).


status offlineCacky
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I believe he has a post on here from some time ago where he describes that. From what I remember, it was when he was being taught those things about how OT bible characters represented the gb that he really began to question, or rather, he realized it was a bunch of bull, but he was already in gilead school and committed, so he went to his assignment with those doubts. Then he got mugged twice while on assignment, because he was white. His wife was biracial, so she didn't have such problems with acceptance. Anyway, that's what I remember from reading his posts. Just thought I'd throw it out there since I don't know if he visits us much these days.

   




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News...

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offlineDana
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May 13 12 9:24 AM
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Sooooo....here I came with updates for my story:


    I told my parents everything! Every single thing! And it all went better than expected. Firstly I told my father, then he told my mom and then we all talked. I told them that I don't Like it and I never did, that I don't believe many of the JW's believes and that I definitely don't believe in the Organisation. I told them why ( my three big "?"). I assured them that it has nothing to do with them and that it's all just about the ideas and the principles I don't agree with. Of course, there were tears&co. And then we talked what should we do. They don't want to lose me ( neither do I ) so they would do anything so we can keep in touch no matter what. My dad said he would resign from his privilege as an elder just to keep the family united ( I was pretty impressed). They asked me if i want to get disassociated and I just couldn't say YES. I just couldn't look them in the eyes and say "yes!". So I said that I haven't make up my mind and it is pretty much the same for me, as long as I can have a perfectly normal relationship with my family and have the complete control on my own life in the same time. I don't care what it is my status in the borg. So we decided that it would be best for everyone if I would just became inactive. Oh, and I also told them about my plan (with the deadline in august and leaving home and the rest of it ) so we decided to all make a compromise: until august, we are going to pretend that everything is the same ( I have my exams for graduating school and getting to university until the end of July, so I should focus on that right now).



   There for, this is how it all looks like for me now:  I still go to meetings and conventions (today we had a 'special talk' in the entire country), maybe preaching once a month, keeping in touch with my JW friends (2) and in the same time having a prefect and normal relationship with mu "worldly" friends. And by the end of the summer we will discus again about me being inactive. And in the meantime, I will told them more detalied what I disagree with.



          But now it feels so akward.....


  
status offlinepcangel
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May 13 12 9:57 AM
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Wow. I am sure it is awkward. But I am sure a huge weight has been lifted off of your shoulders as well. I hope things are able to go the way you have it worked out and you can be free in the end. Your parents seem extremely reasonable given the situation!


status offline2true
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May 13 12 10:11 AM
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Wow! Dana I totally admire you for being so courageous and bold. That's real gutsy what you did. Hopefully some of it will rub off on me via this forum, I'm gonna need some this year. I must be a real load off.
 I'm with pcangel on your parents. They seem to be very reasonable people. Your Dad's gonna resign his eldership - that says he is a very humble man. He reminds me of my Dad (He resigned after getting his third speeding ticket. In the UK you have to go to court after three speeding fines. The summons never came through so he enjoyed his time with reduced responsibilities!)
 It is going to be awkward for you - but at least you have 'come clean' and you have some form of closure to look forward to.
 Keep posting



"The more I advance into older age and the more imminent the end of life becomes, the more convinced I am that the most valuable thing any of us can leave behind is a moral legacy, and that the worth of that moral legacy will be determined by the principles for which we have stood, principles that can never be sacrificed or rationalized away in the interests of expediency. Those principles are . . . . . , integrity to truth, and compassionate concern for others, not as part of a favored system, but as individuals."
Raymond Franz 2004
 

status offlinemidori
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May 13 12 8:51 PM
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Wow, how wonderful that your parents are willing to work with you! Sounds like you have a really reasonable family. I know if I were to approach my parents with the intention of leaving, it would go VERY badly. I'm surprised that your dad is planning to step down as an elder. That is not a small gesture. The next months are going to be awkward, but at least everything is out in the open!


status offlineCacky
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May 13 12 9:10 PM
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I'm so glad your parents are handling it so well. May I ask, were they born in the religion? They sound to me like maybe they came in as adults, who I think are the kind who can understand this kind of thing a little better. But good for you for being brave enough to talk to them, and good for them for continuing to support you! If all jws handled their families who want to leave like that, think how much better it would be. There would be no need for these boards. If they carried on with the idea that continueing to love and support them might bring them back, then it might actually bring some back who otherwise wouldn't, so it would work out better for all. But of course, they (the higher ups) jsut don't get it.
 I don't think any of them have any idea of what family love is really about!
 Cathy


status offlineAndriaSyxx
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May 13 12 10:54 PM

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Dana ... how lovely that your parents are putting your feelings first! It's very good of your dad to want to keep you close ... but sad that he feels he has to resign from his elder post ... which of course he'd be asked to do that anyway no doubt. That though ... is his choice and he knows what he's doing. It's wise not to officially disassociate yourself ... as that will then give the rest of your dad's elder group written 'proof' of how you feel, which of course you don't need to provide to anyone if you don't wish to. Leaving things as they are ... is a good move to make for now.
 Just take each day as it comes and be as super calm as you can be. There may be questions you're asked that you're not sure how to answer ... so stay true to yourself and let your instincts kick in 



"You can only be yourself ...
don't try to be someone else"
Blue_butterflyBlue_butterflyBlue_butterfly
 



status offlinehalf banana
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May 14 12 12:05 AM
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Dana, how do you say ‘Wow! in Romanian? You can consider your family as being among the best. They really put your interests above their religious beliefs -----not the normal witness thinking. I think you can recognise that for success in life; a key ingredient is to have a secure loving family.



 Many people become JWs for the very reason that they were poorly parented and they saw that Witnesses would served as a surrogate family. Of course it doesn’t work, it’s a delusion -----people remain infantilised in this dumb religion.------------- You are a lucky woman!





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I'm really happy for you Dana! smiley: roll
That went as well as could be imagined.
All the best!



status offlinepunkofnice
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May 14 12 1:08 AM
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Your parents sound great and not the brain dead watchtower slaves that many have become.
 Is this of help? http://www.wikihow.com/Leave-Jehovah%27s-Witnesses




Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job


      

status offlinesolitaire
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((Dana))
while I applaud you for being brave enough to front up to your parents, I do wonder if you may have given too much...........I worry that you say the following........

I still go to meetings and conventions (today we had a 'special talk' in the entire country), maybe preaching once a month, keeping in touch with my JW friends

it just seems a big burden that you are expected to still attend meetings or conventions, and the thing I find hardest to equate is that you are considering still going out in field service??!!  How do you think this will work, trying to convert others, whilst knowing that what you are preaching is a crock of crap??!!
I really don't want to 'rain on your parade'.........and I think it is wonderful that your parents say they will let nothing alter their relationship with you, but to me it still smacks of what is 'right' for them and their standing...........how can they want you to carry on living a sham when they know that you no longer believe in the wbts??.........
I truly hope that this path works for you all, but I have to be honest when I say that I doubt it in the long term...........call me cynical, but I still feel that your parents may be clutching at straws, and hoping that by appearing reasonable  towards your 'outing yourself'..........and that by you keeping up the usual routine of the jw's, you may in time decide that your 'outburst' was wrong, and that you will inevitably decide to stick with the 'truth'
I truly hope for the best outcome for you and your family, but I just wanted to air my concerns smiley: smile
This is in no way meant to detract from your bravery in being honest, its just to remind you of others agendas!!
 
Hugs
Sam x    


"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"


status offlineDana
   #10  [-]

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May 15 12 8:46 AM
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   Well, the part about going to meetings and stuff it is just a compromise until august. That only applies the next three months. Then we will talk again and I will point my wants, that time with no possibility of change.



    I was afraid being so drastic from the beginning (especially that my father recently find out that he has some medical heart problems). This way they will have time to accommodate with the idea. And because we decided to keep the appearance this months like nothing happened, I still have to go there and there. 



    And about preaching, that I don't know yet, we haven't talked about that. I have no further intention in converting anybody EVER in this cult. Until last month, I "was" a pioneer and I had enough preaching for the rest of my life. But because we keep the appearance, transition from 70 hours to 0 could be a motive for some to start asking questions before the proper time.But anyway, if I will still have to go in the field service, I know some "brothers" whom I can go with and technically do nothing, just walking around for a couple of hours(and being associated with JW, that comes as a bonussmiley: sick).



   And yes, of course they are hoping that I will return. I mean they REALLY BELIEVE that it's the best way, I can't blame them for hoping.



     I don't know how it's gonna be, not easy for sure, I just know that I will stick to my opinions no matter what....smiley: smile And I do feel somehow easier now that my parents knowsmiley: happy.


status offlineAndriaSyxx
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It's always a relief to get your feelings out and in the open Dana ... so I imagine telling your folks has been a huge relief, specially given you've had these feelings for ages and hadn't (until recently) acted on them.
 Compromise for the sake of a few months is fine but keep in mind your parents will do whatever they can to gently lead you back into the jdub fold. It's what they've been led to believe is 'the' only lifestyle to have for themselves and they would believe too it's 'the' only lifestsyle for you. So be patient, stick to your guns ... and trust your instincts.



"You can only be yourself ...
don't try to be someone else"
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status offlineclunker1
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Uhhh... I dunno Dana.
 I can't help but think your parents have "plans". If I had to bet on it, I'd say they are treading carefully right now to avoid alienating you while hoping to coax you back between now and the fall.
 The complete conviction of the "truth" of Armageddon etc. justifies any tactic necessary, just as you would have no qualms about lying to a child to lure it out of the path of an oncoming bus.
 My father has been an elder for decades, and is principled to a fault, yet I've seen him employ manipulative tactics when trying to divert my... er.... "escape from salvation" that he would never consider in other walks of life.
 You definitely did the first step well, standing up and asserting yourself... I guess I'm just saying "be on your guard", there are probably some hard times ahead.
 I doubt if they'll let you leave without a fight.


status offlinepositivePoop
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Dana, I am so very happy that your parents were very considerate to you, I would trad carefully though and expect anything.. I though I was immune being in the same cong from birth granddaughter of the PO and pioneer grandma and daughter of elder , but they seem to notice and pick at things I would not have believed it until they started picking at me (Im kind of scared to go to a meeting now for fear of a JC, I know I shouldnt care, but Im still intimidated). I am sorry you have to sit through the same bull at the meetings until Aug.. that's my deadline .. or life line too I am moving in Aug and I have no intention of attending when I move. I am also going to school when I move and my dad is having serious health problems.. I hope that your dads heart problems improve, I wish you well in your journey.


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Sadly Clunker is right .... your parents may have plans to keep at least one of your feet firmly planted in jdub soil, but so long as you're aware of that and are strong enough to keep your other foot firmly out ...... then you'll do fine.



"You can only be yourself ...
don't try to be someone else"
Blue_butterflyBlue_butterflyBlue_butterfly
 



status offlinewhytebyrd2
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With all said here I have to agree on the one hand that your parents have not fully 'reacted' to your decision...........there could be some rough times ahead.........but still, I think you did well. YOU are being honest AND considerate with them (your dad's health for instance).
 I also have hopes (always) that the tide could turn drastically in the near future for the WT society and have all sorts of different effects on the rank and file witness. The last years vendetta against 'apostates' has caused many JW's to feel they have to act completely contrary to all human feelings of love..............the rank and file have mostly complied............but this can only last for so long before it HAS to turn the other way. Good people, and there ARE good people in the JW's, can't continue this kind of mindset for long. If it doesn't change, this religion is on the fast tract to complete fragmentation and their end. Armegeddon is going to happen to THEM I'm afraid.




Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot


status offlineredheadsquaddie
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I have been a soldier yet daily I witness so much courage and bravery on this site that I am humbled both you and your folks are an absolute inspiration and I would be proud to shake the hand of a "man" such as your father a real man in an organisation of mindless zombies.
And a hug for you and your Mum in admiration of your decency and courage
                                                                                                                         Red xxx


status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Hi Dana ... just popping in to see how things are going 



"You can only be yourself ...
don't try to be someone else"
Blue_butterflyBlue_butterflyBlue_butterfly
 



status offlinenevermind
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Good luck with your attempt to get out, I missed this thread but hope it goes well!


status offlineDana
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    Hello there. Sorry guys for the long absence. But so far I have nothing new to add. Everything seems to work pretty well, until now at least.


      I don't attend meeting during the week because of my exams (sometimes true, sometimes just an excuse), only Sunday. And my parents know and "have my back"(like giving some good explanations why am I not there). Also, I don't get to go in the field service anymore; not at all.(my dad has some "good explanations" for this too, to give to the other 'brothers').



      I don't  know how it is going to be next(like in the next 2, 3 months) but I just want to take a pause from thinking and planning, because I had enough in the last 9 monthssmiley: smile. Right now, everything is perfect and I just enjoy the momentsmiley: pimp(maybe it won't last for long, but it is here now). And there will be some hard time, I'm sure, but I don't think it will be as dark as I thought because my parents are more understanding than I thought. And they know(at least, I made it pretty clear) that there is NO chance I will ever change my mind.
    
     I will keep you up with the news, especially if something important happens, because you have been there for me when I needed the most and I want you to know how things evolve, and be with me when 'the sky is bright' as well as in the 'stormy times'.

    And that would be all by now.........smiley: happy (I'm happy. I'm poetical).










status offlineNoMonkeyBusiness
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Hi Dana. Its great that you told your parents how you feel. Its similar to what I went through. My dad was an elder for over 20 years and my parents were highly respected. When I told my mum I didnt want to be a witness anymore she was an emotional wreck. I told her first because I was scared of telling my dad and what his reaction would be. But when I told him I was surprised at how calm he was. He thanked me for telling him and said I am an adult and able to make my own decisions. He said their door was always open for me etc.
This went on for a while and I was so happy that it all went well and they respected my decision. But when it sank into their heads they changed. They were hostile, horrible, harrassed me constantly, emotionally blackmailed me etc.
All I am trying to say Dana is that while your parents reaction is ok for now, and you feel like they have accepted your decision, just beware. When what you have told them truly sinks into their heads they may change how they act towards you, and you need to be careful about that and be strong. They may play on your emotions and other bros and sis may too. Be strong and dont give in to their demands. You do whats right for you.

   




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status offlinetinybluedot
   #21  [-]

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Jun 21 12 2:14 AM
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Hi Dana, great to hear your story so far.
 It's pretty close to how things went with my daughter. When she let us know she didn't believe, it was a big shock; I was still in, although with the benefit of hindsight I now see that I had been unconsciously planning my exit for a long time, partially because of the questions my daughter had been asking me (and that I had been unable to answer!). I too made sure that she was able to fade, so that family relationships could be maintained. She had thought that we would make her leave home, poor thing; I let her know that I would never allow anyone to kick her out if she wished to stay, and that I wanted her to finish her education.
 3 years later, she has graduated and left home. Her siblings, while at times unkind and judgmental, will at least talk to her, and allow her to spend time with her little nieces and nephews. She is happier than ever. I haven't been to a meeting for 2 1/2 years now, and am eternally grateful that she made her stand, since it caused me to examine carefully why I believed what I did, which led to my freedom from the cult. (Sadly, her mother is still enslaved.)
 Some here have warned you that things might get rough. That's fair enough, they might. They may, however, turn out exceedingly well. You never know. 


"Which to you, is more awe inspiring; that you were created for the sole purpose of worshiping a dictator in the sky who forbids the joys of life? Or that you and I are the product of billions of years of evolution through natural selection, with each molecule making up the human body having once been a part of a distant star through the process of stellar fusion, having erupted from a supernova to one day allow each of us to sit and ponder our own existence. We are the universe becoming self aware. You can keep your gods, i belong to something greater."- Levi Herbert


status offlinecobaltcupcake
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Jun 21 12 10:12 AM
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Dana - I've just read your story for the first time.  Reading through the comments, I agree with those who advise caution.  Your parents are to be commended for not freaking out.  However, asking you to "fake it" for 3 months sounds suspiciously like they're hoping you'll change your mind.
I remember hearing an "experience" where a daughter told her mother she wanted to leave "the truth," and her mother asked her for one month of full participation in all congregation activities before she made a final decision.  Unhappily, the girl was completely indoctrinated by the end of the month, changed her mind and, I think, became a pioneer instead. 
Take care, honey.











Cats seem to go on the principle that it never does any harm
 to ask for what you want.
Joseph Wood Krutch  
         

status offlineDana
   #23  [-]

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Mar 19 14 4:08 AM
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Sooo...I came with updates...after 2 yearssmiley: embarassed. If you remember (or you could just scroll up an read...) I was planning to leave (stop attending meetings, not DA myself) in August 2012. Which I did! My parents kept their word, didn't try to push me back in or anything like that in those 3 months required to still pretend. Even more, my dad "train" me in what to say and what not to say to the elders when they call or came to a "shepherding visit".
Here's what happened exactly: In September 2012, after the CO's visit passed, I said to my dad "No more. That was the deal" and he said "Yes, I know. No more". In the mean time, I did A LOT of research about the Borg and put it all and an 30 pages "article" for my parents (I had to translate everything I read and found out, since they don't know english). I found it easier to explain my point of view through writing (always did), clearly and with no emotions involved. I don't know if my mom read it (I supposed so. she never said anything), but my dad did for sure, and  I had an even bigger surprise when he told me that he knew about many of the things I researched; maybe not in detail, but he had heard about them ( UN, military weapons, pedophilia scandals + the hypocrisy he had seen for himself). He said that when we will both we a bit older, he has to tell me something regarding this things( I keep on guessing, but I have no clue what). He asked me to translate everything I find about any scandals involving WTBTS and if I can provide him with some more details about the UN thing, which I did (Thank you, JWfacts!!). He told me he was always suspecting there were a lot of money involved in WTBTS's business, and it's not just about religion. I never asked him why is he still playing their game, because I believe I know the answer (I'm his daughter, after allsmiley: laugh): for my grandparents. They are very devout and sacrificed a lot for the org. and to take away their entire life, and believe and hope, now, at 80, would be cruel. My dad is a single child and my grandparents depend heavily on him so...I guess he is still in for them (and maybe because he has no other achievements and friends outside the borg, since he was denied everything else when he was young).
Anyway, after I explained my point of view entirely, and I sort of received his blessing(that's how it felt), we, my dad and I, made I plan on how should I exit (talk about surprise-surprise!!). Because nobody knew of my "apostate thoughts" and because I did nothing else wrong (from JW's standards), nobody had anything on me, or on my dad. So he remained and elder, the coordinator, and I just became inactive. Of course, for everything to be kept peacefully, I had to accept a shepherding visit. My dad told me what to say and what not to say so I would pass their "apostasy test"(I lied, obviously, and I said I still believe WTBTS to be god's org...), and when they called for a second visit, following my dads advice, I just said "I don't feel like I need another one. We talked everything that was to be talked about last time. If I feel like I want to talk, I will contact you". I had to say this 2-3 times, but in the end the stopped calling. And because they had nothing on me, I was left alone.
Also, my dad said he won't let my brother (15 years old) get baptised (not that he has such intentionssmiley: laugh), nor let anyone coerce him to.
I have a boyfriend now (worldly, obviouslysmiley: laugh), we intend to get marry, and my parents accept him and like him very much, and want to make him(and me) feel like he is family. They also have a good relationship with my future parents-in-law(worldly, also). We are in touch with my two worldly aunts(mom's sisters)and my cousins, and are very close again. We even went to my cousin's birthday (and brought a gift!! my mom did). Twice!! My parents spent the New Years Eve with them this year. They bought me a birthday present this year! Sooo...I guess I started a revolution in my family. I really think my dad is secretly thankful that I had the guts to do what he couldn't: live the life as I want, because now he gets to live his life as he wants, through me. (He is still an elder, but ....).
So, this is my updated story. Quite a happy end, given the situation... Of course, not everything is pink. I did lost all my friends(some of them pretend they don't know on the street), including my best friend. We still talk, and we meet (once at 2 months), but I lost her. I just can't reason with her about the Borg, so we never speak about it, because we only end up arguing. But we have different lives now, and she doesn't want to part of my new one..so... we are drifting apart. And of course, I'm still deprogramming and it's so damn hard and I get so angry some times and just don't know what I think and what I believe and...grrr!! I don't trust anyone anymore, and I don't trust anything that has to do with religion or god, but I try to believe in god (I'm not an atheist, never was, never will be!), but I can't seem to escape the JW thinking pattern... But, overall, I got to keep my family, which is the BEST THING EVER (never imagined!) and I realise, reading others story, that is a very rare thing, so I try to value it at it's true valor.
P.S. Sorry for the long post, I had to resume 2 years of my life.
P.P.S. I didn't mean to brag, or anything, with my "successful escape from the Borg". I just thought that sharing my story would rekindle the hope that some JWs are not completely lost to the org. and that good things still happen.



status offlinebelladiane
   #24  [-]

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Mar 19 14 6:11 AM
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Well, kudos to your parents but I agree with Sam. Being inactive means inactive, no meetings, no service and certainly not hanging out with your JW friends. You will be disfellowshipped.....so if you want to be viewed as inactive you need to stop all interactions with ones associated with the organization except your immediate family. Im telling you this because my entire family went through this....brothers, sisters , I know what you are doing and if you keep the kind of contact you have described, you will be brought before 3 power mongers.
 Just be aware. I used to be a BELIEVE, TOTALLY BELIEVE kind of person. Until I went to them with a small indiscretion and they disfellowshipped me, it was a personal ax with one of the elders there who I think, felt that I needed to be put in my place because I question a lot.


status offlineDana
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Mar 19 14 7:13 AM
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I know what you mean, belladiane. I am very careful with what I do and what I say when I know that there are JWs ears listening or reading what I say/post (like on facebook. I restricted their, JWs, access to the minimum, anyway. I thought if I would unfriend them would be to obvious). Well, except for my very close family(parents, brother, grandparents), I only kept contact with this one old friend.
The only grounds they could disfellowship me on would be apostasy, but they need some sort of evidence for that, and, unless they hack my computer, they have none of that. Not even to this one friend have I told anything that would be to worrying for her, never contradicted the org, or their ideas (out front). I never had common interests with any of my JW  ex-"friends", so except for a casual, unexpected meeting on the street, I never see them (I live in a big city, so..it's easy to avoid them. and, besides, I don't live in the same neighbourhood as my ex-congr. territory, because my family "served where the need was"=another congr than the one we lived in, in the opposite side of the city. So, I don't actually see many JWs I know, not even unexpected). I faded and so far it's ok. In a couple of years, I intend to move to another country(for my master degree), but I would like, and I try to remain inactive(not DF) until then. After that, I don't care. After my grandparents will be dead, I intend to DA myself anyway.



status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Thanks for the update Dana ..... I'm so glad that you have the backup of your folks and that your dad helped you through those little shepherding calls.
 In time you may not even think twice about that whole disfellowshipping thing. The elders from your former hall can hardly disfellowship you in the true sense of the word ... if you're already not going to meetings! That would be like shutting the gate to the paddock after the horse has already bolted! But ... we all know how pedantic and 'scary' the Mafioso-like elders are compelled to behave like don't we.
 It is sad that you have lost your friends ... however true friends don't shut us out just because we are no longer practicing the same religion. True friends stick by us no matter what and they don't judge us for living life a different way. You will make new friends and they'll appreciate you for just BEING you!
 If you are approached for another meeting ... keep with your 'if I need to ask for more advice or help, I'll get in touch' and firmly decline their request. You're old enough to make up your own mind about life and don't have to conform to what they want, regardless of your current status as a former publisher. The hierarchy of the religion can no longer control you life ... unless you let them. Trust your instincts!!!



"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"


status offlineMystla
   #27  [-]

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Mar 19 14 10:07 PM
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I didn't mean to brag, or anything, with my "successful escape from the Borg".



No, please do!  The more happy endings we get to hear the better!  Just knowing that some can escape with their families intact is very encouraging for those who are still trying to escape. But not encouraging in the creepy jw use of the word. smiley: wink  I am so glad you returned and updated us!



"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago; the second best time is now"
 -old Chinese proverb




status offlineDana
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Mar 20 14 1:36 AM
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Thank you for your response and kind feedback. Even though I wasn't very active on this forum, ever since I found it, I have been here and it helped me so much, so thank you all for just being here and keep on posting and sharing your thoughts, and stories and advices. I'm sure there are a lot more like me, passive members, just reading, and it helps a lot. Like I said in another post, coming here feels like home now. smiley: smile
That is exactly what I do, Andria, whenever the elders call. "If I need you, I'll contact you". But they no longer call (just before the memorial and the special talk. I think it's on their 'to do' list). I was lucky enough to have reasonabel human beings as elders in my former congr., they're nice people with a nasty job/duty(in their head). I've stopped attending meetings in sept. 2012, never been to one since (except for the memorial, I've been to that; just for my grandparents. I thought it never ends...smiley: sick I'll go this year too...same reason...). Anyway, I have absolutely no intention, ever!!, of going back (or joining any other religion, in its organized form, for that matter)! I don't care what my status in that religion is, honestly (be it inactive, disfellowshiped, disassociated or whatever), member/not member. I know where my allegiance is : with my own sanity and well being, I am my own boss and I make the decisions. But for my grandparents it matters, so I make an effort for them to just keep a low profile and remain inactive. I honestly believe they would still keep in touch even if I were DF, but they both have serious heart condition, and this would affect them hard, so...it costs me nothing to prevent them from a heart attack or something similar.





status offlineCacky
   #29  [-]

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It's so good to hear of a positive outcome as far as your parents are concerned. It sounds like your dad isn't really in, like he's just going along with things for now. I'm happy for you.


status offlineGoingForth
   #30  [-]

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Mar 22 14 2:04 PM
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 Good to hear, Dana, of all the hurdles you so elegantly overcame. You took your life into your own hands, got an education, remained loving towards your family and now--congratulations of your upcoming future with your soul mate!



“The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen nor even touched—
They must be felt with the heart.”
Helen Keller


status offlineAndreaIsFree
   #31  [-]

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Mar 28 14 5:49 PM
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So happy that everything has worked out so well for you Dana.  I suspect your father will leave after his parents die.  And especially with all the information coming out.


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Apr 1 14 2:31 AM
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AndreaIsFree, I suspect the same thing. And I hope I'm right. And my mother will just follow him, as she always does. Keep my (and your) fingers crossed... Anyway, so far, so good (very good). Everything is wonderful now, but I fear sometimes that something will happened and it will all just crumble before me (always expecting the worst, as I was taught...) Nasty thoughts...
Thank you for your help all this time, and for sharing your stories. Just knowing that you're not alone helps A LOT smiley: smile



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Dana,
 I wasn't here when you started your fade but I want to say that it sounds great. I'm so happy for you!
 A word of caution: Be very careful what you let people find out about as you go forward as far as the rules go if you have ever been baptized. they can get you DFed on all sorts of crazy things!
 Love ya!
 Marked

   




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Assembly hall scam

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offlinehalf banana
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I gasped at the shameless attitude that the GB are now exhibiting regarding money.  A Spanish language sister site; extj.com, is paraphrased on JW net revealing an appalling scandal in the handling of the donations from the flock for the building of an assembly hall. http://www.extj.com/showthread.php?24740-Denuncia
A site in Mexico was DONATED for this purpose and the GB said that it could go ahead IF THE BROTHERS FUNDED THE WHOLE PROJECT themselves.  Five years later and millions of Dollars banked in good faith by the poor brothers into the coffers of the WTBTS...and still no assembly hall.
Worse still this is not an isolated case, there are more to come to light in Central America.
Their reply to those wondering where their money went is that they are “analysing the needs of the congregations to see whether or not to build” (words to that effect).
In the mean time would they like to continue to contribute more funds and/ or would they like to donate the money received for Kingdom use?!  No provision is made for respectfully returning the money to those who donated for a specific purpose.
What does it feel like if you have money taken from you and your thief then asks would you like to call it a donation? This sounds like a Mafioso proposition to me.



A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
 Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s  Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).


  
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Any chance of seeing these cases being introduced to the legal system and the WBTS being shown as the money making scam it is? If so, how much chance of law change to stamp out vile, parasitic, predatory, vermin for good?



 'Do a barrel roll!' - Peppy Hare, Lylat Wars - N64
'Andross wont have his way with me!' - Fox McCloud, Lylat Wars - N64

Last Edited By: Gurgi Apr 18 14 3:18 AM. Edited 1 times.


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I'm not surprised.

   




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getting there.....let go of the Jw,s

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offlineseth69
getting there.....let go of the Jw,s
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Jan 12 14 12:02 PM
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Hi guys hope things are well,iam back on the straight and narrow and pushed  the old Jw ,out the window..things are good..but had the elders round droping the Revised Bible of and asking if i would think about coming back lol.i said hang on your the ones who DF me ..any way i have a better lifestyle now and feel pity on you ,since leaving the jw i see how destructive they were,and what pathetic feeble people they are,its sad really as i did have many freinds but see them fear indoctrinated now, by the way my wife still goes to the meetings and i respect that,but shit man how much was i involved in a cult goes by me,but i am on Guard very much for my wife,but still and meet her after meetings to take her home as i do not trust those in that hell hole ..we just come back from portugal after a long holiday out there and loved it,i also cut of from those who said we will still talk to me "after your DF" as i see this as another avenue for those to still presure and report back to the mighty "elders" as the last contact i had i was told i was on apostate sites lol..so if your out there like the NSA and GCSQ hi to all lol George Orwell was right lol.....but just geting on with life and going back to Portugal soon with work and my wife soon..take care people and i will say we are all human no living soul has the right to control if we don,t  want to....Cults are Dangerous and toxic ...get out there and question as you have a right to and no man can indoctrinate   fear unless you let them i repeat that unless you let them..but a big thank you for listening and supporting me on hear sorry about the spelling lol....
 Peace and kind Regards
 Deano xx


  
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Ah Deano isn't it wonderful to look back at what we left and realize exactly what a close call we had while we were in? Even after spending most of my adult life in the Borg I feel so happy that I made it out alive. While in it ya just can't see it for the trees. From the sound of it you are a person who is no longer a joiner either. I also hear ya when you say you feel you are being stalked. As the years go by I realize that those who were interested in my comings and goings are probably too busy (or bored) to watch any longer. LOL Hooray for me. :)


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Hi Seth, Nice to hear from you again. Glad things seem to be going well.

   




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Search Results For: homosexual


Showing Results 1 to 20 of 20 (0.025 secs)
Last Indexed: 04/25/14 19:29:38
Last Post: 04/25/14 19:29:20










Topic Title
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Author

 Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 05-05-2013 WT Study (STUMBLING) (topic)
 Comments You Will Not Hear at the 05-05-2013 WT Study (MARCH 15, 2013, pages 3-7)(STUMBLING)     Review comments will be headed by COMMENTS WT material from today's WT will be in black w = Watchtower g = Awake jv = Proclaimers...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
blondie
05/05/13 21:36:08 
Blondie's Comments You Wont Hear at the 2-10-13 WT Study (TRUSTED STEWARDS) (topic)
 Comments You Will Not Hear at the 02-10-2013 WT Study (DECEMBER 15, 2012, pages 9-13)(TRUSTED STEWARDS)   http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/?contentLanguageFilter=en&pubFilter=w&yearFilter=2012   Review...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
blondie
02/10/13 17:15:16 
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 10-7-12 WT Study (CITIZENS) (topic)
 Comments You Will Not Hear at the 10-07-2012 WT Study (AUGUST 15, 2012, pages 11-15)(KINGDOM CITIZENS)   Review comments will be headed by COMMENTS WT material from today's WT will be before COMMENTS Quotes from other sources...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
blondie
10/12/12 15:21:46 
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 09-23-2012 WT Study (FAMILY) (topic)
 Comments You Will Not Hear at the 09-23-2012 WT Study (JULY 15, 2012, pages 27-31)(GATHERS FAMILY)   Review comments will be headed by COMMENTS WT material from today's WT will be before COMMENTS Quotes from other sources will...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
blondie
09/27/12 14:25:58 
Re: sex before marriage (reply)
 That's my view of marriage too: a tool for raising a family. In certain parts of the world it can be a somewhat risky undertaking due to the prevalence of divorce and the financial and emotional toll that can take (alimony, child...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
auth
09/24/12 10:11:53 
Re: Let's post things that keep people from getting into Bethel! (reply)
 - Any homosexual thoughts? Yeah: Charles Taze Russell was hot --------------------------------------- Would they see the humour let me in? Or would any question about humour be irrelevant?  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Palkab
09/19/12 10:09:25 
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 09-02-2012 WT Study (TRUE FREEDOM) (topic)
 Comments You Will Not Hear at the 09-02-2012 WT Study (JULY 15, 2012, pages 7-11)(TRUE FREEDOM)   Review comments will be headed by COMMENTS WT material from today's WT will be in black w = Watchtower g = Awake jv =...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
blondie
09/03/12 23:43:58 
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 08-26-2012 WT Review (HOLY SPIRIT0 (topic)
 Comments You Will Not Hear at the 08-26-2012 WT Study (JUNE 15, 2012, pages 25-29)(BORNE BY HOLY SPIRIT)   Review comments will be headed by COMMENTS WT material from today's WT will be in black w = Watchtower g = Awake jv =...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
blondie
08/28/12 04:12:36 
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-08-2012 WT Study (MARRIAGE) (topic)
 Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-08-12 WT Study (MAY 15, 2012, pages 3-7)(GIFT MARRIAGE)   Review comments will be headed by COMMENTS WT material from today's WT will be in black w = Watchtower g = Awake jv = Proclaimers...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
blondie
07/09/12 00:18:51 
A true story for the governing body (topic)
 I want to tell you about a house owned by a man called William Beckford. At the tail end of the eighteenth century he was thought to be the richest man in England. The son of the Lord Mayor of London, he had at the age of ten inherited...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
half banana
04/30/12 15:42:59 
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 03-04-2012 WT Study (GOD'S WORD) (topic)
 Comments You Will Not Hear at the 03-04-2012 WT Study (JANUARY 15, 2012, pages 4-(GOD’S WORD)   Review comments will be headed by COMMENTS WT material from today's WT will be in black w = Watchtower g = Awake jv = Proclaimers...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
blondie
03/06/12 02:52:44 
Re: Is being gay outlawed in the Bible? (reply)
 Hi Everyone, This thread deserves a thoughtful and researched post. But... it is late and my energy is low... so this is mostly off-the-cuff. I do think the Bible should be read with care and in context. I also think it is...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
rawe
10/11/11 03:35:05 
Re: Is being gay outlawed in the Bible? (reply)
 The scripture at Leviticus 20:13 is dealing with ritual sin not moral. National Gay Pentecostal Alliance (NGPA) interpretation: They state that a word-for-word translation of this verse from the original Hebrew is:...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
nevermind
10/10/11 07:14:36 
Re: Is being gay outlawed in the Bible? (reply)
 I kinda have to agree with Vancity on the explanation about Jesus' "silence" on certain issues. True, Jesus didn't speak about homosexuality, but he also didn't speak about fornication, or bestiality or incest or a lot of other subjects....  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
ThanxButNo
10/10/11 00:29:52 
Is being gay outlawed in the Bible? (topic)
 Is being gay outlawed in the Bible? Of course it is, Leviticus 18:22 Pauls writings at 1 Corinthians 6:9 and Romans 1:28 So why are the greek words for Homosexual, not explicity used? arrenomanes - meaning mad after men...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
nevermind
10/09/11 13:36:05 
Apostle Paul, the first Apostate?? (topic)
 This is something I have been thinking about for the last few days, not completely researched so please correct me if I'm wrong in places. Learning process involves more than 1 person sometimes. Just wondering why Jesus never talked...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
nevermind
08/24/11 08:23:29 
Re: sex (reply)
 Like many cults they try to impose "scriptural" rules on things that are not even mentioned in scripture. Its just another means of controlling the people. Also the WT has this thing in their head that oral/anal sex are homosexual...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
aniron
07/03/11 12:42:54 
Re: sex (reply)
 Hoooo boy you just got me started on my favorite topic. Oral/Anal sex is of course nowhere mentioned in the bible. As such, the JWs have a rule about it. Well, kind of. See back in the day the first article to talk about this...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
exjwinperu
06/24/11 21:07:09 
Re: sex (reply)
 rawe wrote:Hi Wyzard66, In regards to oral and anal sex within marriage I said, it was viewed as a conscience matter. However, upon some more research I don't think I expressed it correctly. In real life it is very likely many...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Grisette
06/24/11 06:28:04 
Re: sex (reply)
 wyzard66 wrote:Is oral sex acceptable? anal sex? mutual masturbation?Is sex accepted as pleasurable for its own sake or is it to be used for procreation only?Oral, anal, and mutual masturbation lead to homosexual thoughts. I kid you not,...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Danmera
06/18/11 02:32:35 







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Search Results For: homosexuals


Showing Results 1 to 19 of 19 (0.020 secs)
Last Indexed: 04/25/14 19:29:38
Last Post: 04/25/14 19:29:20










Topic Title
Forum
Author

 Re: Are you atheist, religious, etc. (reply)
 When I first got out I didn't want to be bothered by religon at all. Then I checked out some Eastern religons like Buddhism and Ishkon. After some time I decided that I didn't believe in God and there was nothing out there, only chaos....  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Marked for life
04/14/14 12:47:05 
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 09-23-2012 WT Study (FAMILY) (topic)
 Comments You Will Not Hear at the 09-23-2012 WT Study (JULY 15, 2012, pages 27-31)(GATHERS FAMILY)   Review comments will be headed by COMMENTS WT material from today's WT will be before COMMENTS Quotes from other sources will...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
blondie
09/27/12 14:25:58 
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-08-2012 WT Study (MARRIAGE) (topic)
 Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-08-12 WT Study (MAY 15, 2012, pages 3-7)(GIFT MARRIAGE)   Review comments will be headed by COMMENTS WT material from today's WT will be in black w = Watchtower g = Awake jv = Proclaimers...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
blondie
07/09/12 00:18:51 
Re: Is being gay outlawed in the Bible? (reply)
 Hi Everyone, This thread deserves a thoughtful and researched post. But... it is late and my energy is low... so this is mostly off-the-cuff. I do think the Bible should be read with care and in context. I also think it is...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
rawe
10/11/11 03:35:05 
Re: Is being gay outlawed in the Bible? (reply)
 The jdubs have often used that scripture (can't remember which one to be honest ... it's been a while for me since leaving ) ..... that 'men will be lovers of men ....' etc etc. I remember that one having a few airings in my...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
AndriaSyxx
10/10/11 07:47:22 
Re: Apostle Paul, the first Apostate?? (reply)
 Paul certainly was the first Apostate for he misinterpreted Jesus' message of love and made it a message of hatred (against women, homosexuals, etc.). All this is well-known nowadays: Jesus did not create the Christian Church, Paul did...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Nietzscheling
10/08/11 18:09:11 
Re: How does one "just know?" (reply)
 I never could figure out that teaching.  We had an anointed sister.  Although weird as hell she was actually pretty nice.  But it always rubbed me the wrong way that here we believe this women was going to be co ruler with...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Heliaphora
09/30/11 20:20:52 
Re: How does one "just know?" (reply)
 If the GB gave people details, it would be too easy for more people to fake it. In my congregation, we had an anointed sister. She was probably one of the most despicable and hateful people I've ever known. I was too young and...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
pomegranate
09/30/11 16:13:28 
Re: sex (reply)
 rawe wrote:Hi Wyzard66, In regards to oral and anal sex within marriage I said, it was viewed as a conscience matter. However, upon some more research I don't think I expressed it correctly. In real life it is very likely many...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Grisette
06/24/11 06:28:04 
Re: sex (reply)
 Hi Wyzard66, What is the JW teaching towards sex?Jehovah's Witnesses teach that sexual relations should only occur within marriage. Obviously sex is to be within mariage but in what context?Modern Jehovah's Witnesses basically have a...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
rawe
06/19/11 14:53:26 
"Better than God" (topic)
 Sorry, but I just would like to rant a little bit, excuse me, I dont want to attack anyone of You. I know, I am "arrogant" and "lack humility", I am in a "state of rebellion against God". Why? Because I am not a huge fan of Jah. Because...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Skanderbeg
06/07/11 23:30:04 
Re: Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 03-13-2011 WT Study (MARRIAGE) (reply)
 Yeah I don't get what all the harping on Adam and Eve is about. I was thinking about this just last week: Adam and Eve lived to 800 or 900 years or whatever. They were completely surrounded by children, grandchildren, probably a few...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
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03/16/11 15:55:29 
Re: Ministry: Christian Point-Of-View (reply)
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10/19/10 09:14:48 
Re: Ministry: Christian Point-Of-View (reply)
 By "showing someone the love of God through your actions", would that mean we should murder men, women and children who don't believe in him, murder our neighbors for working on the sabbath, murder homosexuals, or allow our daughters to...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Vancity
10/12/10 00:49:57 
Re: OMBob, this made me smile! (reply)
 Hi Everyone, I've made a few comments on the blog in response to Dan and Matt, who identify themselves as Jehovah's Witnesses.One of the things that occurred to me is the widespread rejection of Leviticus "moral code". If one really...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
rawe
08/12/10 04:18:06 
Re: OMBob, this made me smile! (reply)
 Talk about spin doctors! There is a JW on Craigslist Religion Forum bragging about this as if it shows how tolerant they are of others who are different. oh and futhermoreagain.Here is her post: "Proposition 8 and Jehovah's...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Papillon1960
08/08/10 18:09:35 
Re: OMBob, this made me smile! (reply)
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08/08/10 03:47:52 
Oral sex and Witnesses (topic)
 Did or do you guys do it?? Because my JW hubby does...even though his mom told me that that is filthy and for homosexuals/Sodom and Ghomorahh. She assured me that the Witneses didn't practice such things because it's unnatural....  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
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09/17/09 03:26:41 
Re: The 4 Horse Men...oh noes... (reply)
 It's always funny having that conversation with JWS. My aunt and I were talking about it the other day. She said that the end must be coming soon as the world is just getting worse and worse. "In the 'good old days',...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
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07/24/09 15:22:33 







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Evidence needed that any j.ws receive government welfare/handouts etc.?

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offlinecomposer2005
Evidence needed that any j.ws receive government welfare/handouts etc.?
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Apr 17 14 8:27 PM
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I have been  told that NO j.w receives any form of government welfare/handouts etc.?
Can any please provide credible supported evidence otherwise?
Thanks





  
status offlineFiguringitout20
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That's not true. Plenty of JWs rely on welfare. My family went through a period of being on food stamps when I was a kid after my dad lost his job. The org never said a word about not relying on government welfare, etc. That's what is so unreasonable about the mandate to not vote. JWs cannot vote on how govt programs are set up, but can take advantage of them. Makes no sense.


status offlinecomposer2005
Evidence needed that any j.ws receive government welfare/handouts etc.?   #2  [-]

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Can I use your Post as part of my evidence against this idiot?
I also hope others will also come forward to discredit this idiot!
Cheers!





status offlineFiguringitout20
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Go ahead. I hope it helps!


status offlineRaine
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Hi Composer I don't know if I have welcomed you to the forum yet. If Not - Welcome!
 Just wondering if you could let us know the evidence you are after.
 If anecdotal is sufficient. Are you looking for instances of welfare use, that could be deemed unwarranted.
 For example. A JW collecting welfare but could otherwise fully support themselves if they were not prejudice to door knock over earn a living.
 While I was in over 17 years ago. I knew a heck of a lot of full time pioneers that lived on unemployment and the generosity of others. Rather than actually accept a job and earn their own way.
 The thing is the laws have changed and in this country since then. It is so much harder to collect unemployment and remain unemployed if a person is capable of working. So I can't say for certain that they are still working the system. - The way they did back then.
 I have heard that a person that I used to consider a friend back then. Who collected unemployment to full time pioneer now collects a carers pension. Even though she doesn't actually live with the person she claimed to be caring for. But like I said. I have heard that and it's not something I know first hand.
 Or are all instances a viable example for you?
 Like disability. Or aged pension.
 Example my Father is an Elder and collects a disability pension and my mother collects a carers pension.
 My parents are getting on in years and my father. While intelligent. Forgets a lot a which leads to him getting angry, irritated or has panic attacks.
 Often suffers from crippling depression. And my mother looks after him but also she herself suffers from crushing anxiety. They have both worked hard for many many years.
 In this case I believe the collection of welfare is warranted. And I would hardly call it living. They get very little money to survive on.
 (Or at least that was their status when we talked 2 years ago).
 But I have seen many people collecting government payments. While I was in. We often lived in the poorer areas.
 I know my aunty would go around to others in the congregation to tell them what she thought they would be entitled to and how to work the system to get the most money they could out of the government. (She thought of her self as the master of the con. Her husband, my uncle was also an elder and they both fulltime pioneered while paying off a house and building another.) As I grew up I met many more people with the same mentality. "This wicked system is not long for this world. Use it to get Jehovah's message out."
 If you are looking for hard evidence. Well that's private information and (at least in this country) religion isn't relevant to the information to collect welfare. I doubt actual Correlating statistics
 could be found. As far as evidence goes it comes down to hearsay. (as far as I am aware.) And may hold no weight at all, for your purposes.


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I remember an article, back in the 80's or 90's that asked the question if it was ok for a brother to work only part time in order to pioneer and receive welfare and the answer was yes, that he was doing good to society by pioneering so it was ok to receive welfare in order to be able to pioneer.


status offlineeewx2
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We used to get medicaid and WIC when I was in. My husband was working, but didn't make much money or have insurance. I chose to stay at home with the kids, because I felt that was what the Society wanted me to do. I'm ashamed of it now, but yeah, I was encouraged to get on it, especially by my mother.


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eewx2 wrote:
We used to get medicaid and WIC when I was in. My husband was working, but didn't make much money or have insurance. I chose to stay at home with the kids, because I felt that was what the Society wanted me to do. I'm ashamed of it now, but yeah, I was encouraged to get on it, especially by my mother.eewx2...I firmly believe that any able-bodied adult who can hold a job, but wont (such as JW's who "pioneer"---totally useless activity--- and collect government benefits while ignoring their own scriptures that speaks against "a man who does not take care of his own")...is completely wrong.  But in your case, your husband was working and, no doubt, doing the best he could.  What you received was services to supplement your income, because it did not provide everything needed to take care of your family.  Under those circumstances, and especially because children were involved, you deserved healthcare and extra for food for your kids.  In fact, your husband was paying taxes, which entitled you to it.  Please stop feeling badly about it, honey...you did what you had to do at the time to take care of your family.       Hug
edit:  I have taken early retirement, and collect the pitiful pittance that is Social Security. I need to accept Medicaid and "food stamps", and yesterday, for the first time in my life, I stood on line at a food bank to get free groceries.  I never imagined it coming to this, but I have worked for many years and paid a lot in taxes....so we do what we have to do to get by....smiley: ohwell    

Last Edited By: cangie 5 days ago. Edited 2 times.


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Hello all!
Many thanks for your contributions!
Cacky, is it possible to locate & provide me with that article?
I may as well mention that this a_hole of a supposed j.w is claiming that they are a perfect organisation, No drug users, no divorces, no welfare, no crime, no paedophiles, no homosexuals, no war mongers etc. etc. you no doubt get the picture  he portrays?
I also make it known that this a_hole claims to be a preacher for them, demands everyone else strictly obey the bible but -
Drum roll -
He himself openly admits he is in violation of e.g. Matt. 7:1 i.e. STOP Judging! . . . . however his occupation is a literal Judge!
Thanks again

Last Edited By: composer2005 5 days ago. Edited 1 times.


status offlinecangie
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Composer2005...I remembered that there was a post about the JW's attitude towards accepting welfare so I looked it up. Check the first category..."Helping and Discussion Board," and on page 3 is the topic "No part of the world yet living on the dole". A lot of people told the stories of their families, or other witnesses they knew being on welfare, so apparently it wasn't as rare as "The Judge" would have you believe. Plus I have never heard of a JW achieving the status of judge. Don't judges have to run for office (as in, be involved in politics) and be voted into office? As we all know, voting is a BIG no-no for JW's


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This j.w Judge's real name afaik is Wilson Cole.
He posts at isgodimaginary.com
http://isgodimaginary.com/forum/index.php/topic,53062.msg648355.html#msg648355





status offlineCacky
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I wouldn't be able to find the article, I just remember reading it in the '90's and remember an older sister saying she was rather shocked at it.


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Thanks anyhow, everyone who contributed I am extremely grateful.
This Wilson Cole scum is still trying to deny it, unless we start naming specific names?




Last Edited By: composer2005 2 days ago. Edited 1 times.


status offlineFiguringitout20
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For something that is not just anecdotal info, go to www.wol.jw.org. This is the JW's official online Watchtower database. Type in "government aid" in the search box and within those results is a link to a 2009 Watchtower article "Aid from Government", which contains the following blurb:
 "Many countries offer social programs or services to help those in need of material support. There is nothing wrong with a Christian’s receiving such assistance—provided that he qualifies. Speaking truth with our neighbor would rule out giving false or misleading information to governmental authorities in order to receive public assistance."
 Whether or not every member follows the latter part will just lead to more anecdotal evidence, but at least the first part officially confirms the JW org supports members receiving welfare.

Last Edited By: Figuringitout20 A day ago. Edited 1 times.


status offlineSwingLifeAway
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How about how the WTBTS and all of religion has lived on the "corporate dole" for centuries? They pay no taxes and yet they have lobbied in courts for their preferences. This is true of Catholicism as well as the JW's. In the 40's and 50's the JW's were happy to take part in legal process to absolve their members from saluting the flag, yet they do not pay into the system that gave them the ability to challenge such a mandate in the court of law.


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Search Results For: homosexuals


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 Cnt'd (reply)
 Hello all!Many thanks for your contributions!Cacky, is it possible to locate & provide me with that article?I may as well mention that this a_hole of a supposed j.w is claiming that they are a perfect organisation, No drug users, no...  Scandals, Coverups, and JW Controversy
composer2005
04/21/14 00:01:33 
Re: Are you atheist, religious, etc. (reply)
 When I first got out I didn't want to be bothered by religon at all. Then I checked out some Eastern religons like Buddhism and Ishkon. After some time I decided that I didn't believe in God and there was nothing out there, only chaos....  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Marked for life
04/14/14 12:47:05 
Over Two Years.... (topic)
      It's been over two years since I've stepped foot in a Kingdom Hall...and on Monday I'll be attending the memorial.                     In 2012 my life took a turn. I, a female baptized publisher in the congregation, got a girl...  Tell Your JW Story Board
ImHavingABadDay
04/10/14 20:52:05 
Re: The Planck telescope results have got rid of God forever for me (reply)
 SwingLifeAway wrote:I note that you quote parts of the Bible that are in the same books as the Mosaic Laws and I wonder how you have come to know what parts are correct. Jim why do you get to cherry pick the Old Testament and tell us...  Debate and Controversy
JimFit
01/18/14 14:13:46 
Re: The Planck telescope results have got rid of God forever for me (reply)
 I note that you quote parts of the Bible that are in the same books as the Mosaic Laws and I wonder how you have come to know what parts are correct.Jim why do you get to cherry pick the Old Testament and tell us which parts are divine...  Debate and Controversy
SwingLifeAway
01/17/14 13:46:46 
Re: Militant apostates. (reply)
 I am a militant Apostate and a militant Atheist and I wear this badge with pride. Like Paul, when I left I was wracked with guilt and shame. I spent years on my knees going from religion to religion until I decided they where all full of...  Helping and Discussion Board for Ex-JWs
The Villain
12/02/13 16:56:12 
Re: Right and Wrong (reply)
 Good points Locutus I would also say that the overwhelming majority of Christians also follow your guidelines for good/bad and not the bible. If a person were to follow the bible to the word as the guideline for what is good and what...  Debate and Controversy
Vancity
11/23/13 23:11:07 
Re: Your Path from Believer to Athiest (reply)
 raweHi V, My daughter is attending St. John's College. It is a 'great books' college, wherein they study the 100 greatest books of humanity starting in the classical Greek period. If I had the energy and time I would do something similar...  Helping and Discussion Board for Ex-JWs
The Villain
11/16/13 15:31:04 
Re: Your Path from Believer to Athiest (reply)
 Hi V, I may not get enough time to answer all the points in your post. One of the things I enjoy about posting and this thread in particular is the opportunity it gives me to think through some of these items. You know how we were as...  Helping and Discussion Board for Ex-JWs
rawe
11/16/13 03:35:53 
Re: "Worldly" Speakers (reply)
 When I used to give public talks, I had trouble sticking to the outline because the train of thought didn't always follow very well.  They provided so much actual wording that it was tough to make it sound natural.  Toward the end I had...  Helping and Discussion Board for Ex-JWs
badgnus57
11/10/13 00:52:51 
New Revised Bible (topic)
 Check 1 Corinthians ch 6 v9 in the normaL NWT and it goes on about men who lie with men ect now in the New revised version(which are due to be deliverd to congregations soon and is also available on pdf download via JW leikes)  it...  Scandals, Coverups, and JW Controversy
seth69
10/10/13 09:16:01 
Re: If you were me, would you just drop the TRUTH bomb and be done with it? (reply)
 PCNH, I'm also a member of a multigenerational jw family,vand this is how it would happen for me, if I was in your shoes. "What, youre a homosexual? Jehovah God hates homosexuals. You are an abomination. You are cut out of my will....  Helping and Discussion Board for Ex-JWs
Locutus
09/17/13 02:21:39 
Re: Curious about Jehovah's Witnesses (reply)
 Oh yeah, and my ex is gay.  Jw's are not allowed to be homosexuals, so he was advised to find a nice jw girl and settle down.  The theory being that this would somehow cure him of his gayness.  I didn't know he was gay until after we...  Helping and Discussion Board for Ex-JWs
Mystla
08/30/13 20:06:11 
Re: If God was proved real would you worship him? (reply)
 Would I worship a God who commands his people to murder innocent men, women and children because they are occupying land that was promised to me? Would I worship a God who endorses slavery, even to the point of commanding slaves to...  Debate and Controversy
Vancity
05/31/13 14:36:27 
Re: Need Advice for Meeting With Elder (reply)
 rawe, Hey. Thanks for your welcome. The 'little question' in the Jewish bible wrongly 'condemns' male homosexual sense in my eyes. The author's had no real good reason to. Here is what I would say to their little quote: IF a man lies...  Helping and Discussion Board for Ex-JWs
HuJewQueen
04/23/13 04:14:57 
Re: Need Advice for Meeting With Elder (reply)
 Hi Brandi, Welcome to the forum.Two men should be able to and have the right to have sex with each other. It is not an 'abomination' nor 'lustful, nor 'unnatural' nor have they commited an 'error' and they do not deserve to be 'put to...  Helping and Discussion Board for Ex-JWs
rawe
04/23/13 01:27:37 
Re: Need Advice for Meeting With Elder (reply)
 Peanut, You are gay but not currently not in a relationship but I hope you will start a relationship with a man someday soon. If they decide to charge you with apostasy or homosexuality then fine they can go ahead and DF me - you don't...  Helping and Discussion Board for Ex-JWs
HuJewQueen
04/22/13 16:39:25 
Shun Run 2013 - pic 7 of 8 - Curtis (topic)
 Hi Everyone,Here Curtis our ex-Mormon speaks.  This was one of the most moving and emotional presentations we had.  As I explained to one co-worker I know there religious group of people who in general don't like folks like me, but that...  Picture Forum
rawe
03/26/13 02:16:23 
Re: Need Advice for Meeting With Elder (reply)
 Hi Peanut,Thanks for the kind helpful responses. I am going ahead with the meeting (assuming they actually bother to set one up - they have not bothered me with a 'sheparding' call for years probably as I was never a zealous JW and field...  Helping and Discussion Board for Ex-JWs
rawe
03/16/13 02:23:36 
Re: Shun Run 2013 - Show Love, Don't Shun (part 3 MAIN) (reply)
 Hi Everyone, Just dropping by for a quick update. Of the 25 letters I sent out I have received my first reply. It was from the Westboro Baptist Church. For those that don't know, this is a small group who have gained notoriety for...  Helping and Discussion Board for Ex-JWs
rawe
12/06/12 00:51:11 







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Search Results For: homosexuals


Showing Results 1 to 19 of 19 (0.016 secs)
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 Re: Are you atheist, religious, etc. (reply)
 When I first got out I didn't want to be bothered by religon at all. Then I checked out some Eastern religons like Buddhism and Ishkon. After some time I decided that I didn't believe in God and there was nothing out there, only chaos....  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Marked for life
04/14/14 12:47:05 
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 09-23-2012 WT Study (FAMILY) (topic)
 Comments You Will Not Hear at the 09-23-2012 WT Study (JULY 15, 2012, pages 27-31)(GATHERS FAMILY)   Review comments will be headed by COMMENTS WT material from today's WT will be before COMMENTS Quotes from other sources will...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
blondie
09/27/12 14:25:58 
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-08-2012 WT Study (MARRIAGE) (topic)
 Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-08-12 WT Study (MAY 15, 2012, pages 3-7)(GIFT MARRIAGE)   Review comments will be headed by COMMENTS WT material from today's WT will be in black w = Watchtower g = Awake jv = Proclaimers...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
blondie
07/09/12 00:18:51 
Re: Is being gay outlawed in the Bible? (reply)
 Hi Everyone, This thread deserves a thoughtful and researched post. But... it is late and my energy is low... so this is mostly off-the-cuff. I do think the Bible should be read with care and in context. I also think it is...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
rawe
10/11/11 03:35:05 
Re: Is being gay outlawed in the Bible? (reply)
 The jdubs have often used that scripture (can't remember which one to be honest ... it's been a while for me since leaving ) ..... that 'men will be lovers of men ....' etc etc. I remember that one having a few airings in my...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
AndriaSyxx
10/10/11 07:47:22 
Re: Apostle Paul, the first Apostate?? (reply)
 Paul certainly was the first Apostate for he misinterpreted Jesus' message of love and made it a message of hatred (against women, homosexuals, etc.). All this is well-known nowadays: Jesus did not create the Christian Church, Paul did...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Nietzscheling
10/08/11 18:09:11 
Re: How does one "just know?" (reply)
 I never could figure out that teaching.  We had an anointed sister.  Although weird as hell she was actually pretty nice.  But it always rubbed me the wrong way that here we believe this women was going to be co ruler with...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Heliaphora
09/30/11 20:20:52 
Re: How does one "just know?" (reply)
 If the GB gave people details, it would be too easy for more people to fake it. In my congregation, we had an anointed sister. She was probably one of the most despicable and hateful people I've ever known. I was too young and...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
pomegranate
09/30/11 16:13:28 
Re: sex (reply)
 rawe wrote:Hi Wyzard66, In regards to oral and anal sex within marriage I said, it was viewed as a conscience matter. However, upon some more research I don't think I expressed it correctly. In real life it is very likely many...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Grisette
06/24/11 06:28:04 
Re: sex (reply)
 Hi Wyzard66, What is the JW teaching towards sex?Jehovah's Witnesses teach that sexual relations should only occur within marriage. Obviously sex is to be within mariage but in what context?Modern Jehovah's Witnesses basically have a...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
rawe
06/19/11 14:53:26 
"Better than God" (topic)
 Sorry, but I just would like to rant a little bit, excuse me, I dont want to attack anyone of You. I know, I am "arrogant" and "lack humility", I am in a "state of rebellion against God". Why? Because I am not a huge fan of Jah. Because...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Skanderbeg
06/07/11 23:30:04 
Re: Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 03-13-2011 WT Study (MARRIAGE) (reply)
 Yeah I don't get what all the harping on Adam and Eve is about. I was thinking about this just last week: Adam and Eve lived to 800 or 900 years or whatever. They were completely surrounded by children, grandchildren, probably a few...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Droplet
03/16/11 15:55:29 
Re: Ministry: Christian Point-Of-View (reply)
 Vancity wrote:By "showing someone the love of God through your actions", would that mean we should murder men, women and children who don't believe in him, murder our neighbors for working on the sabbath, murder homosexuals, or allow our...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
IchthysGuy
10/19/10 09:14:48 
Re: Ministry: Christian Point-Of-View (reply)
 By "showing someone the love of God through your actions", would that mean we should murder men, women and children who don't believe in him, murder our neighbors for working on the sabbath, murder homosexuals, or allow our daughters to...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Vancity
10/12/10 00:49:57 
Re: OMBob, this made me smile! (reply)
 Hi Everyone, I've made a few comments on the blog in response to Dan and Matt, who identify themselves as Jehovah's Witnesses.One of the things that occurred to me is the widespread rejection of Leviticus "moral code". If one really...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
rawe
08/12/10 04:18:06 
Re: OMBob, this made me smile! (reply)
 Talk about spin doctors! There is a JW on Craigslist Religion Forum bragging about this as if it shows how tolerant they are of others who are different. oh and futhermoreagain.Here is her post: "Proposition 8 and Jehovah's...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Papillon1960
08/08/10 18:09:35 
Re: OMBob, this made me smile! (reply)
 Ironic for sure! I'm with Randy and add my kudos to anyone in California who voted against Prop 8 and for the many JWs who have supported homosexuals and their right to be married ... without even realising it's what they've done!...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
AndriaSyxx
08/08/10 03:47:52 
Oral sex and Witnesses (topic)
 Did or do you guys do it?? Because my JW hubby does...even though his mom told me that that is filthy and for homosexuals/Sodom and Ghomorahh. She assured me that the Witneses didn't practice such things because it's unnatural....  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
marriedtoajdubya
09/17/09 03:26:41 
Re: The 4 Horse Men...oh noes... (reply)
 It's always funny having that conversation with JWS. My aunt and I were talking about it the other day. She said that the end must be coming soon as the world is just getting worse and worse. "In the 'good old days',...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
lovebeachgirl
07/24/09 15:22:33 







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Search Results For: homosexual


Showing Results 1 to 20 of 20 (0.014 secs)
Last Indexed: 04/25/14 19:29:38
Last Post: 04/25/14 19:29:20










Topic Title
Forum
Author

 Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 05-05-2013 WT Study (STUMBLING) (topic)
 Comments You Will Not Hear at the 05-05-2013 WT Study (MARCH 15, 2013, pages 3-7)(STUMBLING)     Review comments will be headed by COMMENTS WT material from today's WT will be in black w = Watchtower g = Awake jv = Proclaimers...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
blondie
05/05/13 21:36:08 
Blondie's Comments You Wont Hear at the 2-10-13 WT Study (TRUSTED STEWARDS) (topic)
 Comments You Will Not Hear at the 02-10-2013 WT Study (DECEMBER 15, 2012, pages 9-13)(TRUSTED STEWARDS)   http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/?contentLanguageFilter=en&pubFilter=w&yearFilter=2012   Review...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
blondie
02/10/13 17:15:16 
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 10-7-12 WT Study (CITIZENS) (topic)
 Comments You Will Not Hear at the 10-07-2012 WT Study (AUGUST 15, 2012, pages 11-15)(KINGDOM CITIZENS)   Review comments will be headed by COMMENTS WT material from today's WT will be before COMMENTS Quotes from other sources...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
blondie
10/12/12 15:21:46 
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 09-23-2012 WT Study (FAMILY) (topic)
 Comments You Will Not Hear at the 09-23-2012 WT Study (JULY 15, 2012, pages 27-31)(GATHERS FAMILY)   Review comments will be headed by COMMENTS WT material from today's WT will be before COMMENTS Quotes from other sources will...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
blondie
09/27/12 14:25:58 
Re: sex before marriage (reply)
 That's my view of marriage too: a tool for raising a family. In certain parts of the world it can be a somewhat risky undertaking due to the prevalence of divorce and the financial and emotional toll that can take (alimony, child...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
auth
09/24/12 10:11:53 
Re: Let's post things that keep people from getting into Bethel! (reply)
 - Any homosexual thoughts? Yeah: Charles Taze Russell was hot --------------------------------------- Would they see the humour let me in? Or would any question about humour be irrelevant?  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Palkab
09/19/12 10:09:25 
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 09-02-2012 WT Study (TRUE FREEDOM) (topic)
 Comments You Will Not Hear at the 09-02-2012 WT Study (JULY 15, 2012, pages 7-11)(TRUE FREEDOM)   Review comments will be headed by COMMENTS WT material from today's WT will be in black w = Watchtower g = Awake jv =...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
blondie
09/03/12 23:43:58 
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 08-26-2012 WT Review (HOLY SPIRIT0 (topic)
 Comments You Will Not Hear at the 08-26-2012 WT Study (JUNE 15, 2012, pages 25-29)(BORNE BY HOLY SPIRIT)   Review comments will be headed by COMMENTS WT material from today's WT will be in black w = Watchtower g = Awake jv =...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
blondie
08/28/12 04:12:36 
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-08-2012 WT Study (MARRIAGE) (topic)
 Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-08-12 WT Study (MAY 15, 2012, pages 3-7)(GIFT MARRIAGE)   Review comments will be headed by COMMENTS WT material from today's WT will be in black w = Watchtower g = Awake jv = Proclaimers...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
blondie
07/09/12 00:18:51 
A true story for the governing body (topic)
 I want to tell you about a house owned by a man called William Beckford. At the tail end of the eighteenth century he was thought to be the richest man in England. The son of the Lord Mayor of London, he had at the age of ten inherited...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
half banana
04/30/12 15:42:59 
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 03-04-2012 WT Study (GOD'S WORD) (topic)
 Comments You Will Not Hear at the 03-04-2012 WT Study (JANUARY 15, 2012, pages 4-(GOD’S WORD)   Review comments will be headed by COMMENTS WT material from today's WT will be in black w = Watchtower g = Awake jv = Proclaimers...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
blondie
03/06/12 02:52:44 
Re: Is being gay outlawed in the Bible? (reply)
 Hi Everyone, This thread deserves a thoughtful and researched post. But... it is late and my energy is low... so this is mostly off-the-cuff. I do think the Bible should be read with care and in context. I also think it is...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
rawe
10/11/11 03:35:05 
Re: Is being gay outlawed in the Bible? (reply)
 The scripture at Leviticus 20:13 is dealing with ritual sin not moral. National Gay Pentecostal Alliance (NGPA) interpretation: They state that a word-for-word translation of this verse from the original Hebrew is:...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
nevermind
10/10/11 07:14:36 
Re: Is being gay outlawed in the Bible? (reply)
 I kinda have to agree with Vancity on the explanation about Jesus' "silence" on certain issues. True, Jesus didn't speak about homosexuality, but he also didn't speak about fornication, or bestiality or incest or a lot of other subjects....  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
ThanxButNo
10/10/11 00:29:52 
Is being gay outlawed in the Bible? (topic)
 Is being gay outlawed in the Bible? Of course it is, Leviticus 18:22 Pauls writings at 1 Corinthians 6:9 and Romans 1:28 So why are the greek words for Homosexual, not explicity used? arrenomanes - meaning mad after men...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
nevermind
10/09/11 13:36:05 
Apostle Paul, the first Apostate?? (topic)
 This is something I have been thinking about for the last few days, not completely researched so please correct me if I'm wrong in places. Learning process involves more than 1 person sometimes. Just wondering why Jesus never talked...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
nevermind
08/24/11 08:23:29 
Re: sex (reply)
 Like many cults they try to impose "scriptural" rules on things that are not even mentioned in scripture. Its just another means of controlling the people. Also the WT has this thing in their head that oral/anal sex are homosexual...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
aniron
07/03/11 12:42:54 
Re: sex (reply)
 Hoooo boy you just got me started on my favorite topic. Oral/Anal sex is of course nowhere mentioned in the bible. As such, the JWs have a rule about it. Well, kind of. See back in the day the first article to talk about this...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
exjwinperu
06/24/11 21:07:09 
Re: sex (reply)
 rawe wrote:Hi Wyzard66, In regards to oral and anal sex within marriage I said, it was viewed as a conscience matter. However, upon some more research I don't think I expressed it correctly. In real life it is very likely many...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Grisette
06/24/11 06:28:04 
Re: sex (reply)
 wyzard66 wrote:Is oral sex acceptable? anal sex? mutual masturbation?Is sex accepted as pleasurable for its own sake or is it to be used for procreation only?Oral, anal, and mutual masturbation lead to homosexual thoughts. I kid you not,...  JW Beliefs, Theology, and Teachings
Danmera
06/18/11 02:32:35 







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Madison, Wisconsin, United States: 2:41:14 pm
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Perth, Western Australia: 4:41:14 am
Québec, Quebec, Canada: 3:41:14 pm
Directory One of the most trusted directories of sites in Internet. Trusted Directory is a high quality human edited directory of the best web resources cataloged in an intuitive and easy way to find.     
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