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What Christians Get Wrong About Hell
Started by  Burnedout , Yesterday, 08:35 AM

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 #1     Burnedout 


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Posted Yesterday, 08:35 AM

Quote

What Christians get wrong about hell

Jumping off from a handful of gospel passages in which Jesus Christ speaks about "eternal punishment" for sinners in the afterlife, these believers conjure visions of a cosmic torture chamber in which those who reject God or commit grave sins without repentance are subjected to endless torment as punishment for their transgressions. It is a ghastly analogue to equally crude and comical visions of heaven as a place where the righteous are rewarded with angels' wings and an eternity of harp lessons.
This is very bad theology — because it takes off from a deeply confused, though very commonly held, view of punishment. [Snipped]
http://theweek.com/a...rong-about-hell


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Pinochet did it right!


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 #2     LifeCycle 


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Posted Yesterday, 09:34 AM

Hey look, another denomination is about to spin off! Anything to keep the myth alive!!!!

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"Forgive those that trespass against you, love your enemies - and while you're doing that, I'll be over here torturing people for their beliefs."
-God
Free will is a rope God gives to everyone, even those he knows are incapable of handling it. "Now go hang yourself with it for all eternity, because I love you."
-God


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 #3     zuker12 


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Posted Yesterday, 02:55 PM

I really don't think this view will fit in a Biblical paradigm. I mean the Bible seems very harsh on sinners, almost... unloving. Maybe I'm mistaking it, or maybe our translations are wrong and the punishment of hell is really only "age-enduring" (which would make more sense altogether).

This is somewhat good on a purely philosophical basis, but taking a bible-perspective feels to me somewhat awkward. Maybe hellfire really is love?

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 #4     MerryG 


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Posted Yesterday, 07:21 PM
Wow. So it's just another, more fancied-up version of the old "you choose to send yourself to hell" business. Except this time is all intellectual and everything -- with Socrates as an authoritative christian theologian, to boot!

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Truth welcomes skeptical inquiry. Only lies fear honest examination.


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 #5     Fuego 


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Posted Yesterday, 08:09 PM

"Depart from me, you accursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels...Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." Matt 25:41-46 

"Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire." Rev 20:15


Did I miss anything? This guy is one of many that don't like the idea of damnation. The founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses created an entire sect based on the idea that hell was annihilation instead of eternal punishment. My first pastor was part of the positive Christianity spectrum that didn't talk about sin, but wanted everything to be all gooey and nice. But the Bible is replete with devastating harm done in the name of Yahweh, and Jesus agreed with burning alive those unfit to enter his kingdom. What a guy! I'm so much happier now that I see through the ooga-boogas.

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 #6     violetbutterfly 


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Posted Today, 02:23 AM
Yep, another interpretation of hell that goes against what's in the bible. But its kind of warm and fuzzy. I liked the comment about a new denomination spin off.
 Now if we can make it all about me for a minute here... one of my sore spots:

Quote

The immoral person foolishly thinks she will benefit from her immoral deed. But she is mistaken and suffers from having cut herself off from the good.

 The "good" way, and "God's way" would have been for me to stay in my shitty marriage to my neglectful husband and continue to kiss his ass until he drops dead. The "evil, sinful" way is to be with a person I love, who loves me back, and actually enjoy sex among other activities with him. Which one makes me happy? Which one do I deserve hell for? But I am simply "deceived" by satan and cutting myself off from the "good" (misery in the name of God). Seriously, STFU, FFS.
 [\petpeeve]
Edited by violetbutterfly, Today, 02:23 AM.
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Replying To Carm's View On God
Started by  Cianna200 , Apr 15 2014 01:10 PM

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 #1     Cianna200 


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Posted 15 April 2014 - 01:10 PM
http://carm.org/
 Is it really fair for god to love Jacob but hate Esau? Carm claims that the christian god is always right and is right to hate sinners (everybody).
Edited by Cianna200, 15 April 2014 - 01:18 PM.
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 #2     Ellinas 


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Posted 15 April 2014 - 03:26 PM

What's fairness got to do with it?

From a fundamentalist standpoint, god is sovereign and questioning his decision is like a pot saying to the potter "why did you give me a cheaper finish than the the pot you made after me?"  (I am thinking of the Pauline "vessels to honour and to dishonour" reasoning).

From any other standpoint, it's another myth.

Either way, the notion of "fairness" is irrelevant.

But to answer your question directly, "no".

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Δεν ελπίζω τίποτα. Δεν φοβούμαι τίποτα. Είμαι λεύθερος. (Νίκος Καζαντζάκης)


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 #3     xtify 


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Posted 15 April 2014 - 04:02 PM

Cianna200, on 15 Apr 2014 - 2:10 PM, said:


http://carm.org/
 Is it really fair for god to love Jacob but hate Esau? Carm claims that the christian god is always right and is right to hate sinners (everybody).

Why would a benevolent, all knowing, all powerful, perfect god create so many things that he hates, anyway?  What's in it for him?

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 “There is not enough love and goodness in the world to permit giving any of it away to imaginary beings.”   Friedrich Nietzsche


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 #4     Bluel0bster 


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Posted 15 April 2014 - 04:12 PM
As Ellinas stated, it doesn't matter. Our standards of "fair" don't apply to a being who is the literal definition of morality. Whatever God does is "fair" by the definition of his nature. God's moral code is not our man's code.

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 #5     Roz 


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Posted 15 April 2014 - 04:31 PM
1.I'm going to go ahead and agree for the sake of discussion that "our standards of "fair" doesn't apply to a being who is the literal definition of morality."
2.I'm going also agree for the sake of discussion that "whatever god does is "fair" by the definition of his nature.  God's moral code is not our moral code."
I would still stand by our subjective moral values, our continually evolving moral values.  We humans hammer out moral values every day through repeated discourse.  I prefer that morality, which is reasoned, thought out, and debated with examples.

If god's morality is not our morality, and when we humans are confronted with god's actions without god explaining to us why he did what he did (example: god's afterbirth abortions), then doesn't it become "might is right" in our human eyes?

Example:  You believe that your sister will murder your son.  You have clear and concise proof that she will murder your child.  You pre-emptively murder her in advance.  You don't explain to either your family or the authorities why she would murder your kid.  You might well be right, and if you were god, then your nature is always right and always loving.

But without explanation, would you (as god) now condemn your family and the authorities and anyone else who would not believe you?  No.  Unless you're the god of the bible.

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 #6     ficino 


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Posted 15 April 2014 - 04:52 PM
There's also the problem of language. If "fair" when applied to God has a totally different meaning from its meaning applied to humans, sentences like "God is/is not fair" don't convey anything. By the same token, if the property of God to which "fair" refers is totally different from the property to which it refers in our world, then Godtalk doesn't convey anything intelligible.
This is why theology classicly maintained that terms apply to God, not "univocally" (i.e. they don't have exactly the same sense as they do when applied to us), not "equivocally" (they don't have a totally different sense - cuz if they did, they wouldn't mean anything to us), but "analogically." God's love/hate/whatever is like ours in a significant way.
A lot of the time, I think Calvinism's Godtalk is equivocal. "God is Love" within Calvinism conveys nothing intelligible, as far as I can see, since the "love" of the Calvinist God is pretty hard to see as love.

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