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> Why doesn't Jehovah use the Watchtower like he apparently used the ancient Bible writers?
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Why doesn't Jehovah use the Watchtower like he apparently used the ancient Bible writers?
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offlinenevermind
Why doesn't Jehovah use the Watchtower like he apparently used the ancient Bible writers?
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I've stolen this from reddit.com as I thought it was too good of a point to miss...
OP wrote:
The Governing Body says that the Watchtower is God's spirited-directed organization, but their publications are filled with pseudoscience, outright error and false expectations. They simply claim that the errors are the result of imperfect men being used by God. At the same time they also claim that the Bible, written by imperfect men, is an inspired and inerrant document. If Jehovah has the ability to inspire an inerrant document through imperfect men, why would he choose to allow errors in the publications produced by his earthly organization? Imagine if the Watchtower was flawless, wouldn't that serve as compelling evidence for the claim that Jehovah's Witnesses are God's chosen people on earth? Why not just use the same method with the Watchtower that was used to inspire the Bible? Why did God downgrade his methodology when he started working through Jehovah's Witnesses?
reply wrote:
That's the question right there, isn't it? It's a philosophical problem that all religions face, actually - you've just couched it in the trappings most familiar to you (and all of us). The WTBTS tries very hard to say that faith doesn't need to exist on its own. For instance, they say that the Bible has hard science in it that no one could have known when it was written. Or more close to the source, that the WTBTS predicted 1914 based on Bible chronology, and that WWI was a fulfillment of their predictions.
They do this to try and convince you (and others) that the hard light of reason or rationality is with them, and not just faith. When the hard light of reason (it's called hard on purpose!) actually shows these things to be untrue: the Bible is actually wildly scientifically inaccurate; the WTBTS' date predictions actually failed miserably and have been repeatedly retconned - then, they must fall back on faith and deride you for having a huge lack of it.
But it's not your fault you lack faith. A large part of their eschatology has historically been to assure you that faith is all good and well, but it isn't necessary, because Bible truths are so self-evident! Why, look at this science in the Bible! Look around you at the majesty of the universe! Look how we predicted 1914!
As soon as it all falls apart under scrutiny, they lay the blame on you, on us - rather than themselves.
This silly dance isn't exclusive to the WTBTS of course - it is the problem between faith and rationality and it's been going on a long time.
Thats a new line of reasoning for me, and thought it was just too good for people to miss!
1) Look at all our proof!
2) Proof fails under scrutiny
.......
3) You just don't have enough faith!
status offlineKefka6
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Oh I know nevermind, it's because.... Um.... Wait gimme a second... It's cause.... Oh I got it we should wait on Jehovah, I'm sure that with enough time the faithful and discreet octopope will give us an answer that we should never question ever, even if it sounds like they pulled it out of their ass
status offlinedivertido
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He doesn't answer the door on weekend mornings either.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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A really good find there Nevermind!
It's amazing how many religious people (excluding those in here of course) like to blame others for things going wrong ... or who put things down to 'imperfect men'!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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How the assembly effects some Dubbies...disgusting!
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status offlinewhytebyrd2
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girl jumping Oh, oh, oh!!! Am I on the 'notorious infamous apostate list?!'
Please, please.........put me on it too laughing devil
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot
status onlinepunkofnice
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JehovahsTrumpet wrote:
Punkoface, if that is your real name, we here at Jehovah's Trumpet would never use such disrespectful graphics. Jehovah will lovingly crush you soon. You are a notorious apostate, oh yes, infamous! I just pray that I will witness your destruction along with the rest of the vast apostate army that has come up against Jehovah. Those of us left on the earth will rejoice.
Yeah. That can be my real name if you like. roll.gif
Ooooh. I'm glad Jehovah(TM) will 'lovingly' murder me. So much better that being just murdered in cold blood.
How I praise Jehovah(TM) for his wonderful love. Even though he is imaginary, it's still nice to know.
I'm glad I give you reason to rejoice....at least I have some use.
Stand firm in the 'truth(TM)' JT I wouldn't want you being consigned to gehenna by that old misery in the sky laugh.gif
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
status offlineJehovahsTrumpet
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whytebyrd2 wrote:
image Oh, oh, oh!!! Am I on the 'notorious infamous apostate list?!' Please, please.........put me on it too image
Duly noted. You can find the list at ApostatesthatJehovahwilllovinglyslaughtersoonverysooninthisgenerationsoon.com
status offlineJehovahsTrumpet
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punkofnice wrote:
JehovahsTrumpet wrote:
Punkoface, if that is your real name, we here at Jehovah's Trumpet would never use such disrespectful graphics. Jehovah will lovingly crush you soon. You are a notorious apostate, oh yes, infamous! I just pray that I will witness your destruction along with the rest of the vast apostate army that has come up against Jehovah. Those of us left on the earth will rejoice.
Yeah. That can be my real name if you like. image
Ooooh. I'm glad Jehovah(TM) will 'lovingly' murder me. So much better that being just murdered in cold blood.
How I praise Jehovah(TM) for his wonderful love. Even though he is imaginary, it's still nice to know.
I'm glad I give you reason to rejoice....at least I have some use.
Stand firm in the 'truth(TM)' JT I wouldn't want you being consigned to gehenna by that old misery in the sky image
Yes. Jehovah is Love, and therefore he can do nothing unless motivated by love. When he slaughters 7 billion men, women, children and babies (and it's going to be soon now: this generation) he will do so to show us, his faithful followers, love so that we won't have to look at people that don't speak in agreement with us. This will show love to the birds too, because they will have a feast. This will show love to the animals, because they will finally have the injustice dealt to them in the Garden relieved since they had to suffer the fall out of Adam's sin through no fault of their own. You see, tigers want nothing more than to cuddle with us, but all that was ruined for them in Eden. Microbes desire to keep us healthy all the time, but they were infected with sin too, so right now some of them kill us. It's not their fault. In the New System, all microbes and humans will live in peace again. Parasites will live in harmony with humans and animals, and mosquitoes will go back to eating vegetation, just like the lion.
Then there are the meteorites. Right now, they are sometimes compelled to smash into the earth endangering human life, but when Jehovah restores the protective bubble of water around this planet, they will simply bounce away.
Finally nothing will impede us from attending every meeting and assembly to be refreshed by our brothers. What could be better? We will all gather, maybe daily, to consider the new scrolls Jehovah will give us. It will be delightful.
But you've given all this up for sex, drugs, parties, holidays, sports, sports, movies, books, education, beer, pornography, masturbation, yoga, music, science, and all other manner of evil things. And this makes me feel bad for you even though Jehovah says I shouldn't even feel compassion for you, I still struggle with.
So while you all are partying in a festering pool of sin and Smurfs, I will happily be at the meetings being refreshed by the constant reminders at the Kingdom Hall praying for your imminent slaughter.
status offlineSailAway
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JehovahsTrumpet wrote:
Punkoface, if that is your real name, we here at Jehovah's Trumpet would never use such disrespectful graphics. Jehovah will lovingly crush you soon. You are a notorious apostate, oh yes, infamous! I just pray that I will witness your destruction along with the rest of the vast apostate army that has come up against Jehovah. Those of us left on the earth will rejoice.
JT, I'm afraid I must ask you to turn yourself in to your elder body at once. Surely, you have crossed the bounds of all propriety by addressing our dear PunkofNice with such a term of endearment! It is shocking that you have called him Punkoface, when even his dearest apostafriends do not address him in such an intimate manner.
The 14th-century Persian poet Hafiz wrote:
Every child has known God,
Not the God of names,
Not the God of don'ts,
Not the God who ever does anything weird,
But the God who knows only four words,
And keeps repeating them, saying:
"Come Dance with Me."
Come Dance
status offlineSailAway
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JT, in addition to your sinful behavior noted above, I would like to point out to you that you need to be more truthful in your writing. If such a list were condoned by the only true god Jehovah, It certainly must now be found only at ApostatesthatJehovahwilllovinglyslaughtersoonverysooninthisOVERLAPPINGgenerationsoon.com It seems you are not keeping up in your studies of New Light found only in the WT study edition discussed weekly at your local Kingdom Hall.
The reason I say "if such a list were condoned" is that New Light from the FDS/GB now tells us that the separating of the sheep and goats is to take place at a yet future time. You are overstepping your place in the Christian congregation and running ahead of Jehovah's celestial chariot and judging others before the appointed time. I am truly concerned for your spiritual well-being.
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Jehovah's Trumpet is happified to report that Jehovah has blessed our efforts, and now our righteous news magazine works on mobiles. We believe that demons were impeding progress, but we continued to make it a matter of prayer, and now all is well.
Now our mobile brothers and sisters can come and read how our faithful sister shuns her mother! It's quite upbuilding.
http://jehovahstrumpet.com/faithful-daughter-shuns-aging-mother/
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image I guess JT is shunning me!
status offlineJehovahsTrumpet
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We shun because we can no longer stone. You should be grateful to Jehovah for that!
status offlineAndriaSyxx
... bring it on Jahs Trumpet ........................ #30 [-]
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JehovahsTrumpet wrote:
We shun because we can no longer stone. You should be grateful to Jehovah for that!... absolutely hilarious smiley: roll
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineBilly Sugger
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I only said Jehovah...........................................
Wait a minute....are there any men here?????
Well, I told the past to kiss my ass and turned and slammed the door.!!
Mike Estes 2012.
Free to be me.
Ian Gillan 1970
status offlineauth
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OK, I'm a sucker for dry humor lol
“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever
have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” - Howard Thurman
status offlinebelladiane
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Life of brian! I just watched that movie again sunday!!!
status offlineirishshane
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where's my whistle?
"To have it come around once is a dream, to have it come around twice is incredible. - Declan Kidney (Munster rugby coach) 24th May 2008
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This is the dark heart of the Heineken Cup - Stuart Barnes in Thomond Park January 2006
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http://youtu.be/BFJ65Og3A2o - Was at this match with an amazing finish. You will see Cian (red hat) behind the women in this clip 6:50-6:57. G'WAN MUNSTER !!!
status offlineJehovahsTrumpet
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Come read the heart warming story about how Johnny shuns his conjoined twin, Jimmy.
http://jehovahstrumpet.com/conjoined-twin-shuns-brother/
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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...... absolutely brilliant read JT ...... hilarious in that 'no we're being totally serious' kind of way you lot have in the blog! Just hilarious Bow down before you
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineCacky
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This is getting funny. And the fact is, it's true. If there were cojoined twins who were jws and one decided to leave, the other would be obligated to shun the sibling. And what Jah's trumpet said is true, that shun because they can no longer perform stoning. I've read articles where they even say things like, "While we don't practice stoning today...we shun those who leave Jehovah's organization." The articles came across to me as if they were sorry they couldn't stone those who leave.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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As Gav and I would say about any of the many MANY excuses conjured up by the WBTS ............................ 'ahh yes [insert Gav or Rhon here] ... but you just don't understand! It's different ....' haha
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlinepalmel1234
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I just read the latest story and it's hilarious!!
I count my time on Twitter, and if someone responds, I count it as a return visit. Once they have responded five times, I count it as a bible study. I tried phone witnessing, but Jimmy always yells apostate lies in the background.
smiley: rollsmiley: roll
I was wondering how JWs got their time in nowadays!!
http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/179443/working_mom.html
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Ta dah! Now you know!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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How the assembly effects some Dubbies...disgusting!
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offlineinspecterD
How the assembly effects some Dubbies...disgusting!
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Found this on FB and was appalled. http://jehovahstrumpet.com/faithful-daughter-shuns-aging-mother/
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Well that was a read and a half Dee!
Whether the aim was to be sarcastic or not .... it was cleverly written and no doubt a diehard jdub would be nodding in agreement that 'worldly' people don't understand the shunning thing at all. We DON'T!
The name of the site is Jehovah's Trumpet ........ but add another 's'and you get Jehovah's Strumpet. Has a nice ring to it.
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineGurgi
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I had a look at this last night before going off to count sheep (why does that sound even more silly for an ex dub to say?). I read some of the bits down at the bottom of the page and it looks like it might be a satirical sight. It had me laughing away whatever. There are some swear words in some of the text pieces so i get a real vibe that it is meant to be humerous.
Great find!
Edit: I've just been reading the 'About Us' section of the site and yes, the site is pure satire. Brilliantly done satire too i might add, pure comedy gold. Here's the link to the 'About Us' bit of the site. I literally fell about laughing.
http://jehovahstrumpet.com/about-us/
'Do a barrel roll!' - Peppy Hare, Lylat Wars - N64
'Andross wont have his way with me!' - Fox McCloud, Lylat Wars - N64
Last Edited By: Gurgi Nov 20 13 2:57 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Ahh yes ... counting sheep. It does sound rather odd doesn't it ..... but then we're officially classed as goats now aren't we Graham?
The sarcasm/satire drips off the first link though doesn't it! I'm guessing there would be jdubs who would be confused either way ... but oh so very cleverly written wasn't it!!!
An awesome 'About Us' opening isn't it? I was in stitches yesterday when reading it ...
Friends, we have been accused of satire, and we need to address this issue. Most of the accusations come from apostates, and of course we don’t read anything an apostate has to say so we ignore those. But when our dear brothers and sisters started questioning us, we knew we had to clarify some things.
... and I thought my husband was bad with his irreverent sense of humour!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineGurgi
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Other great bits, satire and Satan begin with sat. Way too funny.
Did you read any of the other bits on the site? I read a few of the articles. The youth topic was great with the little girl baptizing Skittles the kitten in the bath and then shunning it when its behaviour didn't meet Jehovahs standards.
This site is going on my faves list for sure.
'Do a barrel roll!' - Peppy Hare, Lylat Wars - N64
'Andross wont have his way with me!' - Fox McCloud, Lylat Wars - N64
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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It's hilarious isn't it Graham! I have it bookmarked.
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineinspecterD
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Wow! I checked it out and found it a great site too. I didn't realize that it was satire. LOL Guess I am slow on the uptake. I wonder if those still in would see it as satire or would buy it hook line and sinker? Humm.....
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Don't feel bad, inspecterD...until other folks started responding to your post and explaining that it was satire, I thought it was literal, too! smack head on desk All I could think was "what a horrible, ungrateful child, and what a job this religion does to people's humanity" Oh no
Last Edited By: cangie Dec 2 13 3:56 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlinewhytebyrd2
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the thing is............it's absolutely true. I'm sure my daughter would connect with that 'loving daughter'.
Yes. Disgusting and sad.
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot
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We hear at Jehovah's Trumpet are deeply distressed that apostates continue to accuse us of Satire. We don't understand why apostates are so drawn to our news magazine. Yet there is still time to repent. This is a heartfelt encouragement to bring you back into the fold. Oh, we know, the world has much to offer. Education, friends, lazy nights at home, holidays. This is all vanity! None of you can tell us that you don't know in your hearts where you really belong. When you are having fun with your friends, succeeding at your jobs, educating your children, and dating and fornicating, don't you secretly wish you were back at the Hall being refreshed by your brothers? Don't you miss the reminders at every meeting to watch your association, the encouragement to do more, and the admonishment to sleep with your hands above the blankets? Without these endless reminders, how can we hope to be happy? Don't you miss keeping a record of your not-at-homes, and the thrill of having someone actually open to your knock three or four times a year (more for pioneers)?
THINK about what you are giving up. When you are driving down the street and you see a beautiful house, you can no longer meditate on how that will be your starter house after the inhabitants are slaughtered. Such meditations always bring a smile. You no longer have 100 people watching out for you and reporting when there is concern---all for your own good. Don't you miss the true life experiences of blind brothers who walk twenty miles through the desert, then swim in shark infested waters for hours, only to dodge sniper bullets to get to the Hall, and yet, they never miss a meeting and their joy just radiates? You won't get stories like that in the world. And remember, when you must righteously shun your parent or child, Jehovah will provide you with more.
Agape.
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Again..........all so true and exactly how a true JW believer thinks.
But I must use this emoticon to show my true feelings for all you say Jehovah's Trumpet
Vomiting
(good work BTW)
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot
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LOL Trumpet do you ever break character? I love the site.
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Character? I have put on the new personality. That is my character.
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I remember all those stories in the yearbook about what all some jws go through to get to meetings. One was about a woman in Alaska who took her three kids to walk the four miles to the hall and got picked up by a jw family on the way. This was when I was a jw reading and thought, great, she makes one meeting, then she'll be home the next month nursing her kids sick with pneumonia for taking them out to walk in the cold like that. And one experience I remember reading and was quite stumbled, about a missionary couple on some poor isleand, they had nothing to eat but the bananas that grew on the island, and the woman became pregnant. I don't remember the end of that story, but it was a true story in a yearbook and I remember thinking how unhealthy that would have been for the growing baby for the mo to have only bananas to eat. It was about all the sacrifice they went through as missionaries, but it was so stumbling. I can't believe I didn't wake up then. It was an older yearbook, the lady I had studied with gave me a bunch of older yearbooks and I would read through them. True story.
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I'm sure there's still an extra 's' missing in your name Jehovah's Trumpet (you have to agree ... strumpet DOES have a certain je ne sais qoi about it!) ...................... hilarious site. I can't add more!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineSailAway
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JehovahsTrumpetCharacter? I have put on the new personality. That is my character.
JehovahsTrumpet, You are a sketch! I love satire-- keep it coming!
The 14th-century Persian poet Hafiz wrote:
Every child has known God,
Not the God of names,
Not the God of don'ts,
Not the God who ever does anything weird,
But the God who knows only four words,
And keeps repeating them, saying:
"Come Dance with Me."
Come Dance
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AndriaSyxx wrote:
I'm sure there's still an extra 's' missing in your name Jehovah's Trumpet (you have to agree ... strumpet DOES have a certain je ne sais qoi about it!) ...................... hilarious site. I can't add more!
We here at Jehovah's Trumpet never even thought of such a thing!
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86f1696479fafc6d6720cb041c34ead9c5ca7f96a3e269169272ef27f236146327b7740b73f47014b1916d6a7afff2636837fd9bc9fb5186a572e87f623269c65c74bf57fcb6d6633a5f0e5ee08d765c31116d667ff6f86c645eb94a2405537b0b7caff0JehovahsTrumpet wrote:
We hear at Jehovah's Trumpet are deeply distressed that apostates continue to accuse us of Satire.
Welcome to the forum JT.
Did you mean hear or here?
Seriously, you are the best. Hilarious website. Well done. Your satire surely will help many to escape the vile cult that protects paedophiles and exists solely for the Governing Body to gain power, money, a rock star lifestyle and maybe even children for them to sexually abuse.
WELL DONE!! hysterical laughing
Your part in toppling such a corrupt organization is very much appreciated. I thank you.
PS. I know your following comments will make me howl with your tongue in cheek pretend earnestness. rock on
All hail the grand poobah.
Feel free to add this to your site --------->
c4f260d655797f4ef496f56f687077b0ab4a65e94d41646572f0f16b6186722472aaf1fa2dc48319
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
Last Edited By: punkofnice Dec 2 13 4:01 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlineThe Villain
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LOL those are awesome Paul!
V
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Punkoface, if that is your real name, we here at Jehovah's Trumpet would never use such disrespectful graphics. Jehovah will lovingly crush you soon. You are a notorious apostate, oh yes, infamous! I just pray that I will witness your destruction along with the rest of the vast apostate army that has come up against Jehovah. Those of us left on the earth will rejoice.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
.... would make an excellent marketing tool JT!!!! #20 [-]
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JehovahsTrumpet wrote:
AndriaSyxx wrote:
I'm sure there's still an extra 's' missing in your name Jehovah's Trumpet (you have to agree ... strumpet DOES have a certain je ne sais qoi about it!) ...................... hilarious site. I can't add more!
We here at Jehovah's Trumpet never even thought of such a thing!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Good News: Debunking WT Doomsday Indoctrination
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offlineSailAway
Good News: Debunking WT Doomsday Indoctrination
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Good News: 14 Reasons 2014 May Be The Best Year Ever
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.” ― Marcus Aurelius
status offlineVancity
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great video. This is what I've been trying to say for years...we currently live in the greatest time of human history. Human life on earth has never been better than it is now and it is only getting better.
status offlineRaine
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I love the Vlog Brothers. And this video does highlight some great points.
Even while in the JWs I felt like history was unfairly romanticised. "Ah, simpler times." and "The world just keeps getting worse" are words I heard often. Even "Back in the days when you could leave your doors unlocked and walk home in the dark." I felt like that was a strange thing to say.
Sure a time existed when people may have left their doors open or felt secure enough to venture into the night. (Though from what I have read that isn't completely true.) They lived in times where communities were much smaller. Towns were sparse. It was easier to know every one and everything about everyone. Which was probably a deterrent. But crimes still happened. Add to that the lack of conveniences, medical care, medical advances. Sanitary systems or even decent plumbing. Women were property and people that happened to be born with dark skin meant that they could look forward to a life of being treated worse than property. And this is the "first world" countries. Poverty and lack of education was a major part of existence then. To eat you had to grow or kill your own stuff or make do with local produce.
Now we are a much more dense and compact community. and each community is connected. With roads, telecommunications. Radio, television. The internet. I just ordered a birthday present for a friend. present from America and I'm having it sent to her directly in New Zealand. If I told any one that only 30 years ago and they wouldn't be able to wrap their minds around that. Now it's common place. If your child gets a temp, just drive to a chemist anytime day or night, visit a hospital day or night. Go to or call in a doctor day or night. Hungry? go to the corner store, supermarket, fast food store or order online and have a meal or your groceries delivered. Want to go visit a friend or a place. Get in a car or a taxi, hop on a train, plane, bus or boat. We lock our doors because we have learnt that prevention is better than cure. It's just the smarter thing to do. We take precautions when going out at night because we have learnt it is better to be safe than sorry. We can flush our toilets, take hot showers or baths. And have access to )mostly) clean drinkable water. Just by turning a tap. Throw our clothes in a washing machine and press a button. Turn a dial or push a few buttons and cook our food.
The down side of being a world wide community where information is key. Is that everything that happens in the world gets fed to us straight into our homes. Everything that happens. Even the things that occurs even on the other side of the world from us can feel like it's right on our door step. It can feel claustrophobic. But the truth is what's happen isn't anything new. And we have developed a greater social conscience where we want the ills and wrongs of the world to be fixed. We are forced to think more globally than we ever have before and it can feel like a lot. But it has also proven to be affective. If I had to choose a time to exist in it would be now. Of course I don't know what the future will hold. But now is pretty awesome.
Of course for a doomsday cult. They can always fall of the false cry of peace and security for their dose of fear.
I Ctrl+Alt+Deleted My Religious Programming
"It is better to live one day as a lion, than a hundred years as sheep"
I would consider myself foolish if I listened to someone who refused to listen to me.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Which begs the question for why we are still bomb-barded with commercials for helping save the children...
Oh, it's for helping keep these particular organizations CEO rich! In some respects are are no different from the WTBTS that it's always about money; while preaching love.
Yeap, it's a wonderful time of life...because I'm still alive and have a voice.
Doomsday...nope, done with that one.
status offlineRaine
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While things are definitely changing. More children are being fed and educated. Funds are set up like Kiva.org so that people over there can borrow money and build there own businesses enabling them to begin to earn their own wage. (The idea is something akin to - Teach a man to fish. Instead of just giving them a fish.) And pay back their loan. Poverty in Africa is a very real and very complicated problem.
It's something that is going to take a long time. And 1st world countries can only help so much. We don't really want war to be an option. Mostly for political reason. Some would argue that ethically we can't either. But we are more socially aware. We are getting involved and trying to effect change. It's hard. Especially when I think of the little children being sold into prostitution. People being to weak to work. A huge lack of decent or even what passes for subpar housing. Let alone plumbing. No clean water. (although there is a charity that is doing great work to change that.) I wish there was a resolution and all things were fixed yesterday. That's unrealistic. I know.
But, ok - here is a sliver lining view point. It's speaks to the overall goodness of this world that we even care and want to help with the problems of another country. We don't personally know them and we don't owe them (besides general human decency). But I have yet to meet anyone that will argue that we should ignore the travesties and poverty of 3rd world countries. It's heartening to know that overall worldwide poverty is decreasing. Sometimes we just have to be in it for the long haul.
TL;DR: Poverty is complicated. But we are slowly improving things.
I Ctrl+Alt+Deleted My Religious Programming
"It is better to live one day as a lion, than a hundred years as sheep"
I would consider myself foolish if I listened to someone who refused to listen to me.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Good morning Raine,
This is an interesting conversation and I don't always express myself well.
Speaking only for myself, I'm simply tired of hearing how, as an American, it's save the world, when we have so many problems within the USA. I'm not opposed to helping others - I'm sick of hearing how other countries matter more than my own country that how many die trying to help when they really depend upon us for helping them...and yet my country is going without.
Sorry if this offends anyone...we all want show respect to whatever country we live and stop the political bullshit that continues making them richer while the masses continue suffering.
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Hi Lin
Oh, I totally understand. I particularly feel it when I'm walking through a shopping centre. On a mission to buy food for my family and I'm trying to figure out if I have enough money to pay a bill and get enough food for the week. And I have to walk past at least four strategically placed fold out tables with people holding clip boards. All trying to get my bank details in support of their particular worthy charity. And they step in front of me and ask to talk about animal cruelty, poverty, the homeless. The list is endless and overwhelming. I've been called a selfish bitch. Had my groceries pointed out and "can't afford it huh?" comments levelled at me. I get so angry at the manipulation and guilt trips. I'm at the point where I dread the days I have to go grocery shopping.
And you're right about the problems of our own country and the need of our own family. Personally I have charities I give to that have personal meaning to me. And give what I can when I can. Otherwise it's too much.
I Ctrl+Alt+Deleted My Religious Programming
"It is better to live one day as a lion, than a hundred years as sheep"
I would consider myself foolish if I listened to someone who refused to listen to me.
status offlinehalf banana
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Thank Man (which includes women)... the world is getting better!
status offlineRaine
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Another video related to this topic. Also by John Green
I Ctrl+Alt+Deleted My Religious Programming
"It is better to live one day as a lion, than a hundred years as sheep"
I would consider myself foolish if I listened to someone who refused to listen to me.
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"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure." -Marianne Williamson
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Original Purpose of Kingdom Halls enquiry
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offlineJon3 16
Original Purpose of Kingdom Halls enquiry
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Feb 26 14 8:24 AM
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Hi, All
I had 'an encounter' with 3 JWs in Norwich/UK, 250214.
I told them about the fact I've heard that
their ORIGINAL document of formation/constitution/etc
was (quote) that
"the kingdom halls are for
the worship of God and Jesus Christ".
Where can i download this (as a proof i can pass to them)?
Thanks Jon3_16
status offlinebirdwoman2
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Feb 26 14 9:02 AM
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I am not sure which document you are referring to, but here is a copy of the 1945 charter of Jehovah's Witnesses:
http://www.witnessesuntome.com/1945_Charter_of_WTBTS.pdf
Page 2, Article 7, section 2, states one of the purposes of the society is “worship of Almighty God and Christ Jesus.”
status offlineJon3 16
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Thanks, Birdwoman2.
I had a Quick scan thru that document
but it doesn't say what the
ORIGINAL purpose of the Kingdom Halls was......
namely, " for the worship of God
AND (my emphasis)
Jesus Christ...
Please can you research more, B-W2?
Thanks, Jon3 16.
----------------------------
status offlinebirdwoman2
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The term 'kingdom hall' was not put into use until 1935 by Judge Rutherford.
Up until then, any charter or document in place would not have used that term.
The 'new' charter was adopted by Nathan Knorr in 1945 - the one that I linked to.
And then, in 1969, I believe, the next 'new' charter - drawn up and adopted when Franz was head honcho - dropped "...and Christ Jesus" from the phrase “worship of Almighty God and Christ Jesus.”
It may not be the charter that you are looking for - maybe in a publication?
I don't think the term Kingdom Hall was used in the 'original' document/charter/constitution.
status offlineJon3 16
Thanks, B-W 2. #4 [-]
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Thanks, B-W 2.
status offlineLocutus
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For God so loveth the world that the gave his only begotten son, so that all who believeth in him might live forever/attain eternal life/live forever in heaven. (Just working from memory here….. am I right?)
Last Edited By: Locutus Mar 1 14 12:00 AM. Edited 2 times.
status offlineJon3 16
Jesus = God's only begotten son.... #6 [-]
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01.03.14 > You're Right, Locutus.
As a re-Born (Born-Again) Christian, I've had thousands of encounters on the streets of UK with those of all faiths & none & those involved in various degrees in the occult; and in that, hundreds of encounters with jehovah witnesses (JWs)... Themes develop. Positions show similarities. Objections become grouped. Issues are key --- some 'fundamentally'! As one who reaches out with The Gospel Of Jesus, I have found the 'Mission Field' is not only 'out there' in the world, but also, 'in there' in the religious Christian Churches (not in The Body of Christ, The True Church, where Christ is NOT divided). So.......... It all comes down to Jesus. Who was He? And is 'Was' right, if He is coming again? Good Man? Yes. Prophet? Yes. Teacher? Yes. Healer? Yes. Miracle Worker? Then? Now? Saviour? Lord? Sacrifice? Lamb? Creator? ..................God? The I AM? YHWH? Jehovah? JWs don't hold with 'Jesus IS God'....... even though their kingdom halls were constituted for: ".....the Worship of God and Jesus Christ......". The founding elders knew Jesus was/is God but their current leaders have taken the words: 'and Jesus Christ' out, replacing these words, =10pt'and Jesus Christ', with '...' (3 dots). Jesus said: "I AM The Way and The Truth and The Life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (The = not 'a' = ONLY). See:http://biblehub.com/john/14-6.htm andGoogle Search: https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?source=search_app&gws_rd=cr&ei=YcwRU9rzDMPQygPbooCACA#q=john+14+6 =smallIn this life we all have to decide: Was Christ a Liar? A Madman? Was & is Christ telling The Truth? =smallWhat do you say?
=smallDo Share this link further. Let's Talk!
http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/forum/topicreply/id/26634?page=1#.UxHI2B1g-So Every Blessing IN Christ Jesus, Jon 3 16.
status offlineJon3 16
Sorry about the block of text in previous Post!! #7 [-]
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01.03.14: From Jon3 16:
Sorry about the block of text in previous Post!!
I tried to space it out.....
.........any advice ?
Thanks, Jon3 16.
status offlineLocutus
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No, it makes perfect sense to me! . That scripture is very widely used in the evangelical christian community.
Last Edited By: Locutus Mar 4 14 4:59 PM. Edited 2 times.
status offlinepalmel1234
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Hi Jon,
JWs don't hold with 'Jesus IS God'....... even though their kingdom halls were constituted for: ".....the Worship of God and Jesus Christ......".
What are you trying to accomplish?
Even if you are able to prove this, it isn't going to matter to the rank and file current day JW.
You should know that the governing body (the guys that decide JW policy) has a long time ago come up with the concept of "new light".
Basically this means that even though JWs policies may change and even contradict previous policy,
that doesn't mean the new policy is incorrect, the new policy is simply "new light".
For example, at one time, going to college was a big no-no. But then "new light" came out and they said going to a technical or vocational two year school was okay. Then later on, they changed the policy again back to No college.
They've changed their policy on blood transfusions - used to be no blood products of any kind, now some blood products are okay.
I could go on and on about all the policies that have changed over the past 100 years.
To prove to a JW that at one time kingdom halls were constituted for "worship of God and Jesus Christ" is not going to change their minds about anything.
It's not going to make them now believe that Jesus is God.
And any attempt by you to prove something to a JW is really a waste of your time.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/179443/working_mom.html
status offlineJon3 16
What am i (are you) trying to accomplish? #10 [-]
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Good question, PalMel!
Just a conversation now...
I suppose I am angry at the way they (the enemy) deceives people
into this Cult, thus preventing them from seeing Who Jesus really is...!!!
For Those who believe in PreDestination (and say we don't have to do
anything, as God will save those He will save), there's nothing for us to do.....
BUT,
I move prophetically in and out of People's lives, IN Christ, IN The Holy Spirit....
And often,
when I am reaching the (human) spirit of the person, guess what?!
The enemy 'manifests' ....anger, ...unbelief, ...dark negative spirits,
...threatening violent spirit, ....anti-Christ spirit, ....Lying Spirits, ...etc....
Nevertheless, I press on.
I now don't go out of my way to reach those in Cults (as I must have
spoken to most of the well-known/largely unknown religious spirits
over the last 30 years...), but when our paths cross...
well...
we get into Spiritual Warfare.......
What are your beliefs about Jesus? Who is He to you, PalMel, All...
Jon3 16
------------
Last Edited By: Jon3 16 Mar 6 14 11:30 AM. Edited 1 times.
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You are correct that there really isn't much any of us can do for those who are
in a cult.
As for my beliefs regarding Jesus, I believe there probably was a man named Jesus.
I'm Buddhist, and there is a theory that Jesus went to India and learned from Buddha's teachings.
But do I believe Jesus performed miracles, healed the sick, and was brought back to life? No.
I also don't believe he was the son of God.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/179443/working_mom.html
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Jon ... I may be one of your 'anti-Christ spirit' types mate ... as I don't have a belief about Jesus. Or god. Or any god. I don't have a religious belief system at all and put religion in the category of control. As in one group of people controlling another ... using invisible higher powers to do so.
In saying that though ... I don't begrudge people their chosen belief system and have held many interesting (and at times highly animated ... not on my part) conversations about religion. Or lack thereof in my case. It's fine that people like to talk about their belief .... providing they don't go into preaching mode and start pushing their belief system or religion onto others.
I don't think of jdubs as being 'the enemy'. From my viewpoint ... the majority of jdubs have rote-learned their religion as other people from other religions have done. Sadly most jdubs actually believe the doctrines of their religion and actively promote their religion. They don't really know any better until they start to really analyse what they're involved with.
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineLocutus
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Jon3 16 wrote:
Good question, PalMel!
Just a conversation now...
I suppose I am angry at the way they (the enemy) deceives people
into this Cult, thus preventing them from seeing Who Jesus really is...!!!
For Those who believe in PreDestination (and say we don't have to do
anything, as God will save those He will save), there's nothing for us to do.....
BUT,
I move prophetically in and out of People's lives, IN Christ, IN The Holy Spirit....
And often,
when I am reaching the (human) spirit of the person, guess what?!
The enemy 'manifests' ....anger, ...unbelief, ...dark negative spirits,
...threatening violent spirit, ....anti-Christ spirit, ....Lying Spirits, ...etc....
Nevertheless, I press on.
I now don't go out of my way to reach those in Cults (as I must have
spoken to most of the well-known/largely unknown religious spirits
over the last 30 years...), but when our paths cross...
well...
we get into Spiritual Warfare.......
What are your beliefs about Jesus? Who is He to you, PalMel, All...
Jon3 16
------------So Jon 3-16,
Who gives you the right to tell others what to believe?
You hold just another sect/splinter group's interpretation of Protestant Christianity. This, in your mind, gives you the divine right to inquisit others as to their beliefs and to invade other's conversations?
How would you like it if I invaded your 'believer" forums and told your god is dead, or never existed? Freedom of religion automatically demands freedom FROM religion. Trolling forums like this won't win you many converts. Try the door to door ministry, or perhaps get yourself a Jesus sign truck, or a Jesus sign bicycle, and park it on the side of the road. Probably more effective in gaining converts.
Feeling confident in your faith? Come on down to the Debate and Controversy Forum. You think you know your theology? You are now formally invited… state your case there!
Cheers,
Timothy
Last Edited By: Locutus Mar 7 14 9:32 PM. Edited 1 times.
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2014 District CONvention programme...what is not important in life apparently!
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onlinepunkofnice
2014 District CONvention programme...what is not important in life apparently!
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Mar 18 14 12:46 AM
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The new prog for the DC is on the watchtower's(R) website.
There are plenty of propagandist field day titles.
I was particularly concerned to see this for friday.....
Friday
"2:00 Symposium: What Must Be Kept in Second Place?"
"Recreation"
"Eating and Drinking"
"Concerns about Health"
"Courtship and Weddings"
"Family Ties"
"Material Pursuits"
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Mar 18 14 5:02 AM
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Punkie,
It's too early for me but I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to express?smiley: nerd
Is it just some of the same rhetoric with how they should or should not do this or that...and for those that want remaining members, well, they will do the bidding as told?
Besides, we know I'm not very compute smart and have difficulty at times...smiley: embarassed
status offlineeewx2
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Mar 18 14 11:00 AM
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Sounds like they are still beating the same dead horse. I'm sure the keeping family ties second will be more warnings about those who have left. I'll never get my parents back cause they eat that crap up with a spoon and ask for more.
status offlinebelladiane
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Mar 18 14 11:37 AM
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Me either eewx2....who should be first??? THE MIGHTY POWERFUL GOVERNING BODY!!!
status offlinehalf banana
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The micro-management of every little bitty detail of the Witness life...Oh spare us! They treat the rank and file like brainless idiots who need to be told how to eat and how to breathe and how to think. Who can tolerate such infantile patronising drivel? Why isn’t there a mass walkout?
Well if anyone has brains left after exposure to all this Watchtower indoctrination........can I recommend a mass walkout in protest during the public talk at the district conventions this year...please...!rah rah sis boom bah
A long aquaintance with the literature of the Witnesses leads one to the conclusion that they live in the intellectual ‘twilight zone’.
Alan Rogerson, Millions now Living will NeverDie: A Study of Jehovah’s Witnesses, (p116 Constable, London 1969).
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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I did the single walkout myself when I finally had enough HB! Straight after the song and prayer ... up goes Rhonda "I can't do this anymore" and off I went! It was an intoxicating and exhilarating feeling of freedom ..... and all the more dramatic with the amount of heads that spun around and watched my graceful exit!!! Ahh ... those were the days!
But .................... back to Paul's contribution ............................. it could be the same program used for the last assembly I went to ... and that was back in 1980!!!!!!!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Recreation"
"Eating and Drinking"
"Concerns about Health"
"Courtship and Weddings"
"Family Ties"
"Material Pursuits
This is just so sad..............the same old dictates that ruin lives smiley: ohwell If you take a look at that list, its all the things that you should pay close attention to, all the things that make for a well-balanced and happy life!! How the hell can they tell their members to put 'health' in a secondary place??!!
For those of us raised in the org, we know only too well that what they are advocating is guaranteed to stunt our emotional growth, and thereby keep us tethered to the religion, whether we be emotional wrecks or not!! Plain and simple abuse of individuals mental health smiley: mad
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
status onlinepunkofnice
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It was the 'concerns about health' that disgusted me.
If you're dying then you should do more to give the GB money and power?
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Uncle Punkie -
Of course any of us should have health concerns when it involves the JW...This is, as you always discuss, they are a cult...at the same time, the doctors arent' any different. It's for believing everything they tell us. The more research anyone does, the more you learn and can disagree.
I'm going to bed and hope to sleep before the day calls forward. I'm tired!
status offlineBilly Sugger
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I'm healthier now than when I was with the witlesses, I feel good both in mind and body. I'm sure it was the pressure of being in the truth that brought on my problems.
Well, I told the past to kiss my ass and turned and slammed the door.!!
Mike Estes 2012.
Free to be me.
Ian Gillan 1970
status offlineCacky
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I'm surprised they didn't mention higher education. Maybe that will come on another day. Or maybe it's included in the materialism portion. Yes, they'll go on about putting family second to Jehovah and encourage more shunning.
status offlineeewx2
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I agree with the health thing too. When I was in, I could not care properly for my mental health. As a result I had untreated Bipolar disorder for many years.
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