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27 July 2013God's design for marriage
Focus on the Family has a set of web pages entitled God's design for marriage, which got me thinking.
According to the Bible, what was God's original plan for marriage and how did it changed over time? So I thought I'd try to figure that out. Here's what I came up with.
God's original plan was for Adam to select an animal for a "help meet" (spouse).
God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam. Genesis 2:18-19
God created several million species of animals for one purpose and one purpose only: to find a spouse for Adam. God hoped Adam would find one or more of these animals attractive enough to marry. But it didn't work out as planned.
But for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. 2:20
So God made a woman out of Adam's rib.
The LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 2:21-22
Very resourceful!
But this didn't work out too well either. Men liked women so much that they decided that if one was good, two would be even better. So God made rules for "taking" a second wife.
If he take him another wife.... Exodus 21:10
Often men liked one of their wives better than another, so God had to provide rules for men who had two wives, "one beloved, and another hated."
If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated.... Deuteronomy 21:15
And sometimes a man married a woman only to decide on his wedding night that he hated her. To deal with that situation, God came up with this plan:
The husband can claim she wasn't a virgin when they were married. Then if her father can't produce the "tokens of her virginity" (bloody sheets), God's plan called for the woman to be stoned to death at her father's doorstep.
If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her. And say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And ... say ... these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. But if ... the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel, Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die. Deuteronomy 22:13-21
And men sometimes forced women to have sex with them. So God had to make rules for that, too.
If you "entice" an "unmarried maid" to "lie" with you, then you must marry her, unless the father refuses to give her to you, in which case you must pay him the going price for virgins.
If a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins." Exodus 22:16-17
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife." Deuteronomy 22:28-29
And then God had to decide what to do with women during holy wars.
If you see a pretty woman among the captives and would like her for a wife, then just bring her home and "go in unto her." Later, if you decide you don't like her, you can "let her go."
When thou goest forth to war ... and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands ... And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house ... and ... thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go. Deuteronomy 21:10-13
Since these marriage rules are often confusing, God provided holy examples for men to follow. The best and surest example, of course, is David, a man after God's own heart.
From David we know that it is perfectly acceptable for a man to:
Buy a wife with 200 foreskins.
David arose and went ... and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king's son in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife. And Saul saw and knew that the LORD was with David. 1 Samuel 18:27-28
Get a wife by asking God to kill her husband.
The LORD smote Nabal, that he died. And when David heard that Nabal was dead, he said, Blessed be the LORD ... And David sent and communed with Abigail, to take her to him to wife ... And Abigail hasted ... and became his wife. 1 Samuel 25:38-42
If you're lucky, God may even give you another man's wives, as he gave David Saul's wives.
Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel ... and I gave thee ... thy master's wives. 2 Samuel 12:7-8
But you must be careful. If you are unfaithful to your wives, God may punish you by having your wives raped by your own son while everyone else watches.
Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house,and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. 2 Samuel 12:11
Ahithophel said unto Absalom, Go in unto thy father's concubines ... So they spread Absalom a tent upon the top of the house; and Absalom went in unto his father's concubines in the sight of all Israel." 2 Samuel 16: 21-22
Of course, some men will want to have more than two wives. God is okay with that.
Go ahead. Wax mighty and have 14 wives.
But Abijah waxed mighty, and married fourteen wives 2 Chronicles 13:21
Or, what the heck, have 700 wives and 300 concubines.
He [Solomon] had seven hundred wives ... and three hundred concubines. 1 Kings 11:3
Or marry a whore and have children of whoredom.
The LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD. So he went and took Gomer. Hosea 1:2-3
Or buy an adulterous wife with 15 pieces of silver and a homer and a half of barley.
Then said the LORD unto me, Go yet, love a woman beloved of her friend, yet an adulteress. So I bought her to me for fifteen pieces of silver, and for an homer of barley, and an half homer of barley. Hosea 3:1-2
Still, all things considered, it might be wise not to marry at all. Because if you do get married, God might give your wife to another man or force you to eat your children (and vice versa).
The word of the LORD came also unto me, saying, Thou shalt not take thee a wife, neither shalt thou have sons or daughters. Jeremiah 16:1-2
Therefore will I give their wives unto others. Jeremiah 8:10
I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend. Jeremiah 19:19
The fathers shall eat the sons ... and the sons shall eat their fathers. Ezekiel 5:10
But if and when God kills your wife, don't complain or mourn her death.
Son of man, behold, I take away from thee the desire of thine eyes with a stroke: yet neither shalt thou mourn nor weep, neither shall thy tears run down. Forbear to cry, make no mourning for the dead, bind the tire of thine head upon thee, and put on thy shoes upon thy feet, and cover not thy lips, and eat not the bread of men. So ... my wife died; and I did in the morning as I was commanded. Ezekiel 24:16-18
If you're confused by any of this, don't worry. It is all straightened out in the New Testament.
Jesus said that the people that make it to heaven don't marry.
Jesus answered ... in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. Matthew 22:29-30
And Paul said that it's best just not to touch women or get married.
It is good for a man not to touch a woman. -- 1 Corinthians 7:1-2
For I would that all men were even as I myself.... I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. -- 1 Corinthians 7:7-9
But if you do decide to get married, or if you already are married, don't have sex. There's no time for it since Jesus is coming soon.
But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none. -- 1 Corinthians 7:29
Or, better yet, if you are married, get a big reward by abandoning your wives and children for Jesus's name's sake.
And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. -- Matthew 19:29, Mark 10:29-30, Luke 18:29-30
So from God's point of view, the main thing is this: same-sex marriage is an abomination, everything else you can possibly imagine is OK.
Posted by Steve Wells at 7/27/2013 06:39:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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6 comments:
Stephen said...
I respectfully refer you to Betty Bowers, America's Best Christian:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFkeKKszXTw
Enjoy!
Steve Weeks
Sat Jul 27, 08:09:00 PM 2013
Sabio Lantz said...
Fantastic Steve !!
Damn, this should be required Bible reading for any Christian BEFORE engaging in a conversation women and religion.
Superbly put together !
Sun Jul 28, 04:50:00 AM 2013
Sabio Lantz said...
Actually, you inspired a post out of me -- give it a read to see my spin on things, if you are interested. I also put up a pic of your book and link to Amazon.
Again, nice job !
Sun Jul 28, 05:23:00 AM 2013
bob said...
The article does not take into account that God is dealing with sinners who are by nature going to go against what is right. In general, if He did not cut us sinners some slack we would all be doomed. So He is giving commands that will give the best possible overall outcome. Hence, "IF” you take another wife... (culturally, in that part of the world in that time it was common to take more than one wife)
Solomon wilfully/knowingly went against God's command...
Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. Genesis 2:24
...by taking many wives, and he paid the price for it (1Kings 11; Nehemiah 13:26).
Sat Aug 03, 06:33:00 PM 2013
skanksta said...
thanks logical bob !
Steve, whatever happened to 'things I've noticed recently' ?
I used to like that..
Sun Aug 11, 11:43:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
shanksta,
Yeah, I know. I used to like that ("Things I've noticed lately") too. But it was just too much work to maintain. I'm pretty much all twittered, blogged, websited, and booked out. I'm just glad I don't do facebook and I'm not very linked-in.
Mon Aug 12, 07:23:00 PM 2013
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19 July 2013Drunk With Blood - The revised 2nd Edition is now available
Since the First Edition of Drunk With Blood was published, I've found another 23 killings from the Apocrypha. They include some of the best killings in the entire Bible, so I decided to include them in the 2nd Edition, which is now available at Amazon. (For some examples, see killings 136 to 147.)
The 2nd Edition has a new design, with the killings now grouped into chapters. I think it's a vast improvement over the original book, and I hope you'll think so too.
(Buy it now or God will smite you with hemorrhoids in your secret parts!)
Posted by Steve Wells at 7/19/2013 10:03:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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3 comments:
Christian said...
This made me laugh so hard "hey include some of the best killings in the entire Bible". I really need to pick up a copy now.
Sun Jul 21, 07:27:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
Christian, if it were half as good as the first edition, it would be ten times better than you think it is!
And it's at least twice as good... you do the math!
Steve Weeks
Sun Jul 21, 08:07:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
I just received my copy. Thanks, Steve!
I can't wait to settle down and read it... especially the new section.
Steve Weeks
Thu Aug 01, 07:02:00 PM 2013
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208 ways to get yourself saved
Real men pee standing up
Everybody must get stoned
Where do evil spirits come from?
What does Jesus have written on his testicles?
Which is more violent, the Bible or the Quran?
Why Christian "Marriage" is Wrong
Is it wrong to burn people to death?
The Top 50 Bible Stories for kids
Which bits of the Bible are we still to believe?
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18 July 2013Elisha and the dead boy
I've been busy working on another project lately that involves this Bible story. So I thought I'd share it with you, since I haven't had time for posting lately.
It's about Elisha. You know, the prophet who sent two bears to kill 42 boys for making fun of his bald head.
The story begins when a woman from Shunem befriends Elisha. She immediately recognized him as a man of God, so she fed him and convinced her husband to give him a place to stay.
Elisha passed to Shunem, where was a great woman; and she constrained him to eat bread. And so it was, that as oft as he passed by, he turned in thither to eat bread. And she said unto her husband, Behold now, I perceive that this is an holy man of God, which passeth by us continually. Let us make a little chamber, I pray thee, on the wall; and let us set for him there a bed, and a table, and a stool, and a candlestick: and it shall be, when he cometh to us, that he shall turn in thither. 2 Kings 4:8-10
So Elisha stayed in the room they made for him.
And... he came thither, and he turned into the chamber, and lay there. 2 Kings 4:11
Elisha wanted to repay the woman and her husband. So he asked his servant, Gehazi, to look into it. Gehazi said, “Well, she has no children and her husband is old.”
He said to Gehazi his servant … What then is to be done for her? And Gehazi answered, Verily she hath no child, and her husband is old. 4:12-14
Which gave Elisha an idea. He'd make the old woman pregnant!
He said, Call her. And when he had called her, she stood in the door. And he said, About this season, according to the time of life, thou shalt embrace a son. 4:15
The woman thought that was a crazy idea. She and her husband were too old to have kids.
And she said, Nay, my lord, thou man of God, do not lie unto thine handmaid. 4:16
But Elisha made her pregnant anyway. And she had a baby boy. (Boys always result from miracle pregnancies in the Bible.)
And the woman conceived, and bare a son at that season that Elisha had said unto her, according to the time of life. 4:17
Years later, the boy was out helping his dad when he grabbed his head and cried out, “My head, My head.”
When the child was grown, it fell on a day, that he went out to his father to the reapers. And he said unto his father, My head, my head. 4:18-19
And by the time they got back to the house, the boy was dead.
And when he had taken him, and brought him to his mother, he sat on her knees till noon, and then died. 4:20
The woman put her dead son on Elisha’s bed and went to find Elisha on Mount Carmel.
And she went up, and laid him on the bed of the man of God, and shut the door upon him, and went out. So she went and came unto the man of God to mount Carmel. 4:21-25
When she found him, she said, “Why did you give me a son? I didn’t ask for one!”
Then she said, Did I desire a son of my lord? did I not say, Do not deceive me? 4:28
Elisha responded by telling Gehazi to gird his loins, go back to Shunem, and lay Elisha’s staff on the face of the child.
He said to Gehazi, Gird up thy loins, and take my staff in thine hand, and go thy way … and lay my staff upon the face of the child. 4:29
So Gehazi traveled to Shunem and laid Elisha’s staff on the dead boy’s face. (The body must have been getting a bit stinky by now since Shunem is 15 miles from Mount Carmel.)
And Gehazi ... laid the staff upon the face of the child. 4:31a
File:Gehasi.jpg
But Shucks! The magic trick didn’t work.
But there was neither voice, nor hearing. 4:31b
Gehazi went back to Mount Carmel to tell Elisha the bad news.
Wherefore he went again to meet him, and told him, saying, The child is not awaked. 4:31c
So Elisha returned to Shunem to take care of things himself. When he arrived, he went into the room, closed the door, and prayed to God.
And when Elisha was come into the house, behold, the child was dead, and laid upon his bed. He went in therefore, and shut the door upon them twain, and prayed unto the LORD. 4:32-33
Then he lay down on top of the dead boy's body, placing his mouth on the boy's mouth, his eyes on the boy’s eyes, and his hands on the boy’s hands.
And he went up, and lay upon the child, and put his mouth upon his mouth, and his eyes upon his eyes, and his hands upon his hands. 4:34a
While still in this position, he stretched himself upon the dead boy's body until the flesh began to warm.
And [he] stretched himself upon the child; and the flesh of the child waxed warm. 4:34b
But Elisha still wasn’t through. He got off of the boy and walked around a bit.
Then he returned, and walked in the house to and fro. 4:35a
Then he lay down on top of the warming body until the boy sneezed seven times.
And [he] went up, and stretched himself upon him: and the child sneezed seven times. 4:35b
And with that, the boy opened his eyes.
And the child opened his eyes. 2 Kings 4:35c
Posted by Steve Wells at 7/18/2013 10:55:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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20 comments:
liminalD said...
Um... weird...
Thu Jul 18, 11:56:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
Necrophilia?
Nothin' agin' it in the good book!
Steve Weeks
Fri Jul 19, 05:42:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
liminalD and Steve,
Yeah this story is weird and necraphilic. But there's even more to it than that.
I came across this story when I was looking into biblical justifications for homosexuality. Elisha's staff, apparently, represents Elisha's penis. And it didn't work because the miracle required the real thing. When Elisha supplied that, the boy's dead body became warm. And when the boy came to life for real, he ejaculated (sneezed) seven times. (You've got to be fully alive to do that!)
Anyway, the story shows how much God loves homosexuality. But then I guess that's kind of obvious, what with Leviticus 20:13 and all.
Fri Jul 19, 07:41:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
EEEEeeeewwwwwwwww!!!!!!
Now, seriously, where does the 'staff for penis' metaphor come from? The Devil's advocate position could be that someone's imagination is running a bit wild.
But it reminds me of the advice someone gave Bill Clinton which, sadly, he did not follow:
"Thou shalt not comfort your staff with your rod." <_<
Steve Weeks
Steve Weeks
Fri Jul 19, 08:16:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
I found the penis-staff idea in a book by Keith Sharpe called "The Gay Gospels". Here's a quote: "Obviously the staff ... is a symbol for Elisha's penis. However ... without the rest of his body being there to call down the full force of Yahweh's energy the penis substitute is impotent."
Sun Jul 21, 07:46:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
"... without the rest of his body being there to call down the full force of Yahweh's energy the penis substitute is impotent."
So... the Holy Spirit is just a bunch of jizz? :lol:
Steve Weeks
Sun Jul 21, 08:12:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
Well, I don't know about that, Steve. But there is another similar episode in 1 Kings 17:17-24. So maybe Sharpe is onto something.
Mon Jul 22, 10:22:00 AM 2013
Sabio Lantz said...
Interesting, this is a story I forgot -- even though I have read the OT twice, both times were as a believer -- amazing the stuff you overlook when you believe.
The Mahabharata is one of my favorite religious text but especially because I don't miss the weird stuff. Since I am not Hindu, and not raised with those stories, the odd things stand out. If I read the Bible systematically nowadays, I think they would stand out too. Instead, I am thankful for posts like this to illustrate such oddity. Thanx
But I must say, I wish we had folks versed in pointing out the similar patterns in many religious texts. This would help Atheists to realize that their anti-Christian fervor is fed more my a parochial dislike. For if they saw the same in other faiths, they may fall into despair over the enormousy of silliness!
Tue Jul 23, 03:21:00 AM 2013
Brucker said...
Yeah, this is probably in the top ten of "just plain weird" stories in the Bible. I'm not sure I'm buying the homosexual angle (nor staff as penis angle) but as weird as the story is, I suppose it's as good an angle as any.
Still, I guess I'd really take exception to reading too much into the Bible with respect to homosexuality. I think both the anti- and pro-LGBT factions tend see more about homosexuality in the Bible than is there. Personally I see a couple verses in Moses' writings (and the story of Sodom is not one of them) and a couple in Paul's epistles, all of which are awfully brief mentions.
Wed Jul 24, 01:51:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
These may be "awfully brief", but they're pretty clear, don't you agree?
Leviticus:
18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Steve Weeks
Wed Jul 24, 06:25:00 PM 2013
Ned said...
This comment thread shows just how mislead many lay people can be by what seems to be "convincing scholarship." The reading of Elisha's staff as his penis is REALLY hokey. The notion that this text is "necrophilic" is also ludicrous.
This is why people who don't know the ancient languages and the history should not publish on the Bible. You mislead people and you look completely uninformed. You have no apparatus with which to critique what you read.
Thu Jul 25, 07:36:00 PM 2013
Sabio Lantz said...
@Ned,,
Yeah, I agree. I don't read necrophilia here at all and the penis talk just sound like adolescent chatter from those who want to make fun of something. I don't think even ancient language study is needed to see through that.
Fri Jul 26, 02:48:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
OK, his staff isn't a penis metaphor. What we're seeing here is the first documented case of cardiopulmonary resuscitation.
Happy now? ;-)
@Ned: "This is why people who don't know the ancient languages and the history should not read or interpret the Bible. You delude yourself and you look completely foolish. You have no apparatus with which to critique what you read."
There. Fixed. Read some Bart Ehrman if you want biblical scholarship, though Steve Wells does quite well in my estimation.
@Sabio: What's not to make fun of? It's not as if there's any plausible evidence for most of the stories in the bible.
Steve Weeks
Fri Jul 26, 06:44:00 AM 2013
Steve Wells said...
Ned and Sabio,
I don't quite know what to make of this story either. That's why I didn't include the penis staff, Elisha's necrophilia, or the sneezing/ejaculation theories in my post. I just told the story that is in the Bible, along with the relevant quotes.
But, Ned, please tell us what the proper interpretation is. I know you've got the apparatus, what with all your knowledge of the ancient language, history and whatnot.
And you, too, Sabio. Tell us how to properly interpret this lovely Bible story. I'm sure there's an explanation for it that doesn't involve adolescent chatter.
Fri Jul 26, 09:02:00 AM 2013
ThinkingMom said...
Even as a Christian, this story stood out as creepy indeed. I would eventually over-look it because I felt in essence, I had to. After all, god's ways are not my ways and I could not possibly begin to understand his infinite wisdom. Oh, brother!!
Fri Jul 26, 09:38:00 PM 2013
ThinkingMom said...
I also remember the one about Elisha's bones raising someone from the dead. Just strange.
Fri Jul 26, 09:40:00 PM 2013
sp4mf15h said...
@Stephen "so....the holy spirit is just bunch of jizz? lol "
Funny you should say that, heres a story I got telling about a pastor who agrees with that very thing :)
http://spamfish23.wordpress.com/2013/07/13/religious-nutjob-of-the-week-holy-milk/
Sat Jul 27, 08:05:00 AM 2013
Sabio Lantz said...
I don't have time to spend on it just now, but I imagine its function was primarily to show the power of a prophet so as to strengthen their voice. A literary device.
Sat Jul 27, 09:23:00 AM 2013
Sabio Lantz said...
Taking the story literally, either as a religionist or an atheist is laughable -- but many do it!
Sat Jul 27, 09:24:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
@ sp4mf15h...
Howls of laughter!!
Steve Weeks
Sat Jul 27, 08:07:00 PM 2013
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09 July 2013Ramadan: Sleep all day, party all night
For those of you who don't know, it's Ramadan -- the month in which Muslims believe the Quran was revealed to Muhammad (pb&jbuh).
Here's how it's put in the Quran:
The month of Ramadan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for mankind, and clear proofs of the guidance, and the Criterion (of right and wrong). And whosoever of you is present, let him fast the month.... 2:185
So Muslims fast every day during the month of Ramadan from dawn to dusk. It's one of the five pillars of Islam.
And what does fasting entail? Here's a list of things that invalidate the fast.
1- Intercourse
2- Masturbation
3- Eating and drinking
4- Anything that is regarded as coming under the same heading as eating and drinking
5- Letting blood by means of cupping and the like
6- Vomiting deliberately
7- Menstruation and nifaas
Well, that's clear enough, I guess. No sexual intercourse, masturbating, eating, drinking, bleeding, vomiting, or menstruating. (That's right, ladies, menstruating. Because Allah, like the God of the Bible, hates menstruating women.)
You have to go without all that stuff all day long. What's a person to do?
There's really only one good answer to that: sleep. Sleep as much as you can as long as you can during the day. Fasting is much easier while you're asleep and sleeping all day doesn't invalidate the fast.
That works great if you're a man (unless you have to work, that is), but not so well if you're a woman. Because a woman must spend all day in the kitchen preparing the huge feast (iftar) that breaks each day's fast, as well as shop for the food, clean up after last night's party, and prepare the morning meal (suhoor) that begins the fast the following day.
(There is quite a competition among Muslim women to produce the most elaborate and extravagant iftar feast. Much more food is produced each night than can possibly be consumed, with the excess thrown away the next day, since leftovers are discouraged. And this goes on for the entire month of Ramadan.)
But for Muslim men there's only one plan for Ramadan: Sleep all day, party all night.
(I'm not making this Ramadan plan up. It is followed by most Muslim males, in so far as work, school, and other activities permit.)
Here's a song that expresses the idea exactly.
Posted by Steve Wells at 7/09/2013 07:00:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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24 comments:
Tiny Rajan said...
Who said God hated women with menses in the Bible? He just said they are unclean. He created it in the first place, so hw can He hate it.
N also Jesus came so that we maybe no more under law but under grace. So don't compare Bible and Quran God's.
Fri Aug 10, 09:59:00 AM 2012
Steve Wells said...
Oh, so God doesn't hate menstruating women, he's just disgusted by them. Thanks for clearing that up, Tiny!
Fri Aug 10, 10:56:00 AM 2012
No said...
There's really only one good answer to that: sleep. Sleep as much as you can as long as you can during the day. Fasting is much easier while you're asleep and sleeping doesn't invalidate the fast.
To be in a coma for Ramadam would also be an interesting option, as long as the medical staff gives you your intravenous when the sun is down.
Fri Aug 10, 12:26:00 PM 2012
Belle said...
It's actually fairly civilised to release women from the obligation to fast during periods of presumed disability or bleeding (the nifaas is post partum bleeding). It may not be scientific but you make it sounds as if God commands women to stop bleeding during Ramadhan so I just wanted to correct that impression. Apparently women just have to do the fast later.
Only the men who invented God dislike menstruation but they weren't all anti-woman (though many were, of course).
Fri Aug 10, 05:42:00 PM 2012
Stephen said...
2:31 And He taught Adam all the names, then showed them to the angels, saying: Inform Me of the names of these, if ye are truthful.
2:32 They said: Be glorified! We have no knowledge saving that which Thou hast taught us. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower, the Wise.
2:33 He said: O Adam! Inform them of their names, and when he had informed them of their names, He said: Did I not tell you that I know the secret of the heavens and the earth ? And I know that which ye disclose and which ye hide.
2:34 And when We said unto the angels: Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever.
-quoted from The Skeptic's Annotated Quran, though I'm sure it makes more sense in the original Arabic. Iblis was the only one with any sense.
Steve Weeks
Fri Aug 10, 05:53:00 PM 2012
No said...
the Merciful
It is always interesting to see this title given to a God, Allah in this case, when you think about the billions of people who were/are non muslims past/present, and who are being tortured in hell eternaly by this "Merciful" God of yours as per his prophet.
Read you book, not just the parts that uplifts you, but the parts that you conveniently turn a blind eye to and there are many.
Look at non muslim around you that you enjoy the presence on a daily basis, can't you see what Allah's got in store for them ? Or does it really matter as long as you got your salvation, the rest doesn't really count right ?
Fri Aug 10, 05:54:00 PM 2012
Steve Wells said...
Well, Belle, I'm not sure I agree with you there. Allah is completely grossed out by menstruating women; they can't pray or touch a Quran while they're menstruating, for the same reason that they're not allowed to fast during Ramadan. (And it's not because Allah is just being nice.)
Fri Aug 10, 06:04:00 PM 2012
No said...
Sleep all day and party all night
... and what can be better, once the believer is full like an egg, then to read a few lines from the book of mormons as Mark Twain suggested, to find deep replenishing sleep when the sun starts to rise ?
Sun Aug 12, 12:52:00 PM 2012
Julia - Finding My Way Softly said...
I had a Muslim friend in grade school and a fairly large group of us at least fasted lunch in solidarity. I never knew that we would be breaking God's law by fasting during our periods. Thank goodness I didn't start my period until after Ramadan in 6th grade. ;-)
I am not sure about God, but I certainly wish I didn't have periods. Maybe this is just in solidarity for the curse that makes us unclean, but also provides us the chance to bear sons who will grow up in righteousness and go out and kill the terrible Christians.
Julia
poetrysansonions.blogspot.com
Mon Aug 13, 02:52:00 AM 2012
nazani said...
Can women prepare food while on their period? Morbidly curious.
Sat Aug 18, 02:22:00 PM 2012
Steve Wells said...
Yes, nazani. Muslim women may prepare food for the nightly Ramadan feasts, as long as she doesn't fast, pray, touch a Quran, or have sex while doing so.
Sat Aug 18, 03:21:00 PM 2012
Stephen said...
Steve, I can't believe I actually read the entire page on "The Fiqh of Menstruation". Whoever wrote that (after making it up) must have cotton balls for brains. I feel sorry for those poor women who have to deal with that bullshit.
Steve Weeks
Sat Aug 18, 08:00:00 PM 2012
shahsawar mumtaz said...
um...i am a Muslim woman and this is not true, menstruation is a natural thing and we have no control over it you have to stop fasting during your periods, Allah doesn't disapprove of it...we don't touch the Quran,fast or pray during periods,however we can start praying after it,please dont write biased stuff :)
Tue Aug 21, 10:23:00 AM 2012
Steve Wells said...
shahsawar mumtaz,
And why can't you fast, pray, or touch a Quran during your periods? Is a woman's prayer of less value when she is menstruating? And if Allah isn't disgusted by menstruating women, why does he forbid them to touch a Quran?
Tue Aug 21, 10:30:00 AM 2012
lovebeingamuslimah said...
Yet another ignorant article.
1.) No one I knows sleeps all day during Ramadhaan. Not men or women. Part of the blessing of Ramadhaan is that it helps people who may have sort of gone off the path come back and strengthen the connection with God. So why would most people waste the day away when time can be much better spent gaining good deeds?
As for the night time, I'd hardly call it partying. We break our fast with a date, go pray, come back to eat, and shortly after go for prayers at the masjid where we will pray until about midnight (when it's Ramadhaan in the summer)
2.) It is not encouraged to stuff oneself. The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us to fill our stomachs 1/3 with food, 1/3 with water, and 1/3 with air (i.e. have a slightly empty stomach still).
3.) Who the hell told you that leftovers are not encouraged?! My family eats leftovers every morning before we start fasting (unless we're out of leftovers in which case we prepare something else).
4.) Allaah does not hate menstruating women, just as he does not hate those who just had intercourse. There are just rules to when a person can pray/fast/hold the Qur'aan (in the case of sexual impurity, even reciting it).
Thu Jan 03, 02:08:00 PM 2013
mark tag said...
My parents are currently performing or getting ready to perform the hajj rituals.
I know that everyone says its very dangerous and risky due to the large, stubborn crowds.
And, my mom did say that every hour or so, the speaker announces a death.
Should I be concerned?
Cheap Umrah packages 2013
Mon May 13, 09:49:00 PM 2013
Christian said...
I have always found it really strange that Muslim women are excluded from Ramadan. They are not allowed in the last week in temples and surely once a month they menstruate (unless they are to young or to old). Let me guess Islam is the religion of equality or so our Islamic friends like to tell us.
Tue Jul 09, 05:42:00 PM 2013
Ryan Jeanes said...
What happend to "Rock all Night, Sleep all day!"
Sat Jul 13, 01:48:00 PM 2013
Ryan Jeanes said...
You forgot this one, homie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Za0gWXJW1w
Sat Jul 13, 01:50:00 PM 2013
Sabio Lantz said...
If only Ramadan were 24 hours of fasting and lasted several months, Islam may have gone the way of the Shakers.
Sun Jul 14, 05:27:00 AM 2013
Cultural Muslim said...
Speaking as an ex-Muslim: I will say that the sleeping all day thing really depends on social status and culture. Poor people, obviously, have to work. Well-to-do people do tend to take it easy during Ramadan. I would not sleep the whole day, but I would get a couple hours in, especially at the end of fast because by then it becomes very difficult to do anything productive. Overeating and being wasteful of food are actually discouraged by Islam but happen anyway (wealthy people act like wealthy people, regardless of their religion). But you are correct about the stress that Ramadan puts on Muslim women. And there is definitely a party atmosphere during the nights of Ramadan in the Muslim world, as anyone who has lived there can tell you. This is especially true in the Gulf Countries.
Thu Jul 18, 11:48:00 AM 2013
Cultural Muslim said...
Speaking as an ex-Muslim: I will say that the sleeping all day thing really depends on social status and culture. Poor people, obviously, have to work. Well-to-do people do tend to take it easy during Ramadan. I would not sleep the whole day, but I would get a couple hours in, especially at the end of fast because by then it becomes very difficult to do anything productive. Overeating and being wasteful of food are actually discouraged by Islam but happen anyway (wealthy people act like wealthy people, regardless of their religion). But you are correct about the stress that Ramadan puts on Muslim women. And there is definitely a party atmosphere during the nights of Ramadan in the Muslim world, as anyone who has lived there can tell you. This is especially true in the Gulf Countries.
Thu Jul 18, 11:49:00 AM 2013
Cultural Muslim said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Thu Jul 18, 11:49:00 AM 2013
Brucker said...
Years back, I had a Muslim friend who told me that it's typical for Muslims to gain weight during Ramadan. That's some ironic fasting. Anyway, I got to go to a Ramadan feast at a Pakistani restaurant, and dang, it was a lot of food, no doubt.
Thu Jul 25, 11:04:00 AM 2013
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09 July 2013Bill Maher on religion
I thought I'd seen everything Bill Maher had done on religion, but it turns out I hadn't.
You probably haven't either. Take a look.
Posted by Steve Wells at 7/09/2013 07:40:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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2 comments:
Stephen said...
Classic! I put a plastic cover over my keyboard, so no damage was done by the coffee I snorted all over it. ;-)
Steve Weeks
Tue Jul 09, 03:31:00 PM 2013
Brucker said...
Gotta love Maher, even when I disagree with him, which I did almost never throughout that video. How did that Palin clip at the end not get shown endlessly during the 2008 election? I know a few people who would not have been shocked by it, but very few.
Thu Jul 25, 11:38:00 AM 2013
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08 July 2013Love Wins (Faith Loses)
It was hell that did me in as a Christian. I couldn't believe that my family and friends and billions of other nonbelievers (and religiously incorrect believers) would be tormented forever in hell for their honest disbelief (or their religiously incorrect beliefs).
It was also hell that was the beginning of the end of Jerry DeWitt's faith, as he explained in his book, Hope After Faith.
And it was the same for Charles Darwin. Here's what he said about it in his autobiography:
I can hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity to be true; for if so, the plain language of the text seems to show that the men who do not believe, and this would include my Father, Brother, and almost all my best friends, will be everlastingly punished. And this is a damnable doctrine.
But there are some Christians who can get around hell by ignoring "the plain language of the text."
Rob Bell is one of those.
In the first chapter of his book, Love Wins, Bell clearly expresses the problems that hell presents to a believer.
1. It's unfair and incredibly cruel.
2. The Bible is unclear about how it can be avoided.
The first problem is obvious to anyone who gives it a moment's thought. Here is just one of the many excellent rhetorical questions that Bell asks about hell.
Of all the billions of people who have ever lived, will only a select number "make it to a better place" and every single other person suffer in torment and punishment forever? ... Can God do this, or even allow this, and still be a loving God?"
The second problem is a bit less obvious. According to the Bible, how do you escape hell?
It was here that Rob Bell provided me with another half dozen ways to get saved. (I'm now up to 205. Some of these were already listed, but some I added to the list.)
Listen to a preacher and call on whomever he tells you to believe in. Romans 10:14
Beat your breast and say you're a sinner. Luke 18:13-14
Ask Jesus to remember you when he comes into his kingdom. Luke 23:42-43
Be born again. John 3:3
Be worthy. (Don't get married.) Luke 20:35
Forgive people. Matthew 6:14
Do the will of Jesus's father. Matthew 7:21
Endure to the end. Matthew 10:22
Give half your goods to the poor and restore fourfold whatever you have taken falsely. Luke 19:8-9
Get saved (or at least have your sins forgiven) by other people's faith. Mark 2:3-5
Get saved by your spouse. 1 Corinthians 7:16
Do whatever a voice in the sky tells you do do. Acts 22:6-10
Become an Israeli citizen. Romans 11:26
Love much. Luke 7:47
But besides pointing out new ways to get saved, he pointed out something even more interesting. And that is this: The way most evangelicals believe people are saved -- the only way they believe you can get saved -- is not found anywhere in the Bible.
And what is that way?
It is this: You've got to have a personal relationship with God through Jesus.
There are 205 ways to get saved that I have found in the Bible, but the one most believers believe in is not one of them. Because it's not in the Bible.
So the first chapter of "Love Wins" is great. Bell demolishes hell.
The rest of the book tries to salvage what remains of Christianity after removing the belief in hell.
What remains after removing hell from Christianity?
If there is no hell, there's no outer darkness, no place of torments, no everlasting fire, no everlasting punishment, no land of immortal worms, no weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.
If there is no hell, there's no way to get saved and no need for a savior. Jesus has nothing to say and nothing to do.
And faith loses.
Posted by Steve Wells at 7/08/2013 11:47:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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Stephen said...
Well, without a literal "Adam and Eve", there couldn't have been a "Fall" or "Original Sin", so there's another reason there's no need to be "saved".
Good to see things corroborate each other!
Steve Weeks
Mon Jul 08, 05:20:00 PM 2013
teavee said...
Update http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/salvation.html
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/salvation.html (list and link text at bottom)
Tue Jul 09, 12:28:00 PM 2013
Brucker said...
You know, your list on ways to get saved is another one I considered blogging about in specific as a topic rather than going through the way I'd been doing. I think the problem with your list is that you're categorizing things as different that are really just slightly different wordings of the same concepts.
But I have to agree that there is more than a little confusion with the Bible, and a lot of confusion with it's believers as to what it means. I, too have heard the "one way" arguments, and they're usually pretty shoddy, espcially since the "one way" mentioned is often something never mentioned (have a personal relationship with Jesus) or only mentioned once (be "born again" whatever that means) which seems a poor basis for an all-or-nothing doctrinal cutoff point for damnation.
If I ever feel motivated to restart blogging, that list would be a fine place to start, since it's supposedly so damned important.
Wed Jul 24, 02:03:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
Brucker,
If you decide to do a post on the ways to get saved, be sure to let me know. I'd like to link to it -- or maybe you'd like to do it as a guest post.
You're probably right about the similar ways. Some of them are very close to being the same and should be combined. And maybe I should eliminate the negative ones (Don't lust, etc.).
Wed Jul 24, 10:08:00 PM 2013
Brucker said...
Point me to the most up-to-date version of your list and I'll consider how to tackle it.
Thu Jul 25, 11:09:00 AM 2013
Brucker said...
I'm working on it right now, and assuming this is the best list. Also, note that #23 "Get to know God" might be arguably equivalent to having a personal relationship etc., but I'm not planning on pushing anything that iffy.
Thu Jul 25, 01:53:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
Yeah, that's the latest list. 206 ways to get yourself saved.
Fri Jul 26, 09:51:00 AM 2013
Wayne VanDeveer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sat Jul 27, 04:41:00 PM 2013
Robert Lambert said...
The Scripture labels it 'FOOLISHNESS'(1 Corinthians 1:21)
That's what Naaman thought too! (2 Kings 5:9-15)
Mon Aug 05, 09:10:00 PM 2013
Gary said...
No, God doesn't need your help to save you.
Baptists and evangelicals are correct: sinners MUST believe to be saved. But you will not find one passage of Scripture that states that the sinner must make a “decision” to believe. The sinner must believe, but it is God who makes the decision for him to believe.
Acts 13:48 (ESV)
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
This passage of Scripture points out the great fallacy of (Arminian/Free Will) Baptist and evangelical theology: The sinner does not assist or even cooperate in his salvation. The sinner is a passive participant in his salvation. Yes, he believes, but he believes because he was appointed before the world existed to believe, not because HE makes a free will decision to do so.
God chooses who will believe…the sinner chooses to reject Christ and send himself to hell. Christ died for all and desires all to be saved. God has predestined NO ONE to hell.
The Arminians and the Calvinists are both wrong.
http://www.lutherwasnotbornagain.com/2013/10/salvation-is-much-simpler-than.html
Mon Oct 14, 10:10:00 PM 2013
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08 July 2013Love Wins (Faith Loses)
It was hell that did me in as a Christian. I couldn't believe that my family and friends and billions of other nonbelievers (and religiously incorrect believers) would be tormented forever in hell for their honest disbelief (or their religiously incorrect beliefs).
It was also hell that was the beginning of the end of Jerry DeWitt's faith, as he explained in his book, Hope After Faith.
And it was the same for Charles Darwin. Here's what he said about it in his autobiography:
I can hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity to be true; for if so, the plain language of the text seems to show that the men who do not believe, and this would include my Father, Brother, and almost all my best friends, will be everlastingly punished. And this is a damnable doctrine.
But there are some Christians who can get around hell by ignoring "the plain language of the text."
Rob Bell is one of those.
In the first chapter of his book, Love Wins, Bell clearly expresses the problems that hell presents to a believer.
1. It's unfair and incredibly cruel.
2. The Bible is unclear about how it can be avoided.
The first problem is obvious to anyone who gives it a moment's thought. Here is just one of the many excellent rhetorical questions that Bell asks about hell.
Of all the billions of people who have ever lived, will only a select number "make it to a better place" and every single other person suffer in torment and punishment forever? ... Can God do this, or even allow this, and still be a loving God?"
The second problem is a bit less obvious. According to the Bible, how do you escape hell?
It was here that Rob Bell provided me with another half dozen ways to get saved. (I'm now up to 205. Some of these were already listed, but some I added to the list.)
Listen to a preacher and call on whomever he tells you to believe in. Romans 10:14
Beat your breast and say you're a sinner. Luke 18:13-14
Ask Jesus to remember you when he comes into his kingdom. Luke 23:42-43
Be born again. John 3:3
Be worthy. (Don't get married.) Luke 20:35
Forgive people. Matthew 6:14
Do the will of Jesus's father. Matthew 7:21
Endure to the end. Matthew 10:22
Give half your goods to the poor and restore fourfold whatever you have taken falsely. Luke 19:8-9
Get saved (or at least have your sins forgiven) by other people's faith. Mark 2:3-5
Get saved by your spouse. 1 Corinthians 7:16
Do whatever a voice in the sky tells you do do. Acts 22:6-10
Become an Israeli citizen. Romans 11:26
Love much. Luke 7:47
But besides pointing out new ways to get saved, he pointed out something even more interesting. And that is this: The way most evangelicals believe people are saved -- the only way they believe you can get saved -- is not found anywhere in the Bible.
And what is that way?
It is this: You've got to have a personal relationship with God through Jesus.
There are 205 ways to get saved that I have found in the Bible, but the one most believers believe in is not one of them. Because it's not in the Bible.
So the first chapter of "Love Wins" is great. Bell demolishes hell.
The rest of the book tries to salvage what remains of Christianity after removing the belief in hell.
What remains after removing hell from Christianity?
If there is no hell, there's no outer darkness, no place of torments, no everlasting fire, no everlasting punishment, no land of immortal worms, no weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.
If there is no hell, there's no way to get saved and no need for a savior. Jesus has nothing to say and nothing to do.
And faith loses.
Posted by Steve Wells at 7/08/2013 11:47:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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10 comments:
Stephen said...
Well, without a literal "Adam and Eve", there couldn't have been a "Fall" or "Original Sin", so there's another reason there's no need to be "saved".
Good to see things corroborate each other!
Steve Weeks
Mon Jul 08, 05:20:00 PM 2013
teavee said...
Update http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/salvation.html
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/salvation.html (list and link text at bottom)
Tue Jul 09, 12:28:00 PM 2013
Brucker said...
You know, your list on ways to get saved is another one I considered blogging about in specific as a topic rather than going through the way I'd been doing. I think the problem with your list is that you're categorizing things as different that are really just slightly different wordings of the same concepts.
But I have to agree that there is more than a little confusion with the Bible, and a lot of confusion with it's believers as to what it means. I, too have heard the "one way" arguments, and they're usually pretty shoddy, espcially since the "one way" mentioned is often something never mentioned (have a personal relationship with Jesus) or only mentioned once (be "born again" whatever that means) which seems a poor basis for an all-or-nothing doctrinal cutoff point for damnation.
If I ever feel motivated to restart blogging, that list would be a fine place to start, since it's supposedly so damned important.
Wed Jul 24, 02:03:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
Brucker,
If you decide to do a post on the ways to get saved, be sure to let me know. I'd like to link to it -- or maybe you'd like to do it as a guest post.
You're probably right about the similar ways. Some of them are very close to being the same and should be combined. And maybe I should eliminate the negative ones (Don't lust, etc.).
Wed Jul 24, 10:08:00 PM 2013
Brucker said...
Point me to the most up-to-date version of your list and I'll consider how to tackle it.
Thu Jul 25, 11:09:00 AM 2013
Brucker said...
I'm working on it right now, and assuming this is the best list. Also, note that #23 "Get to know God" might be arguably equivalent to having a personal relationship etc., but I'm not planning on pushing anything that iffy.
Thu Jul 25, 01:53:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
Yeah, that's the latest list. 206 ways to get yourself saved.
Fri Jul 26, 09:51:00 AM 2013
Wayne VanDeveer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sat Jul 27, 04:41:00 PM 2013
Robert Lambert said...
The Scripture labels it 'FOOLISHNESS'(1 Corinthians 1:21)
That's what Naaman thought too! (2 Kings 5:9-15)
Mon Aug 05, 09:10:00 PM 2013
Gary said...
No, God doesn't need your help to save you.
Baptists and evangelicals are correct: sinners MUST believe to be saved. But you will not find one passage of Scripture that states that the sinner must make a “decision” to believe. The sinner must believe, but it is God who makes the decision for him to believe.
Acts 13:48 (ESV)
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
This passage of Scripture points out the great fallacy of (Arminian/Free Will) Baptist and evangelical theology: The sinner does not assist or even cooperate in his salvation. The sinner is a passive participant in his salvation. Yes, he believes, but he believes because he was appointed before the world existed to believe, not because HE makes a free will decision to do so.
God chooses who will believe…the sinner chooses to reject Christ and send himself to hell. Christ died for all and desires all to be saved. God has predestined NO ONE to hell.
The Arminians and the Calvinists are both wrong.
http://www.lutherwasnotbornagain.com/2013/10/salvation-is-much-simpler-than.html
Mon Oct 14, 10:10:00 PM 2013
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03 July 2013Congratulations, It's a boy! Episode 2: The line of Cain
As you'll recall, the first thing Adam and Eve did after leaving the Garden of Eden was -- well, obey God's command to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth.
And they got off to a great start, too. They had two babies in the first two verses, both boys, named Cain and Abel. But then Cain killed Abel, and the world's population fell to 3.
It took the first couple a while to get back into the business of being fruitful, but eventually Adam knew Eve again. And when Adam was 130 years old they had another baby boy named Seth.
But this episode isn't about them. It's about Cain.
So what happened to Cain after he killed his brother Abel?
Well, God cursed him to be a fugitive and vagabond and put a mark on him so no one would kill him (I guess God thought Cain's parents might kill him since they were the only other people alive at the time).
The LORD said unto Cain ... now art thou cursed ... a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be. Genesis 4:9-12
And Cain said ... every one that findeth me shall slay me. 4:13-14
And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. 4:15
Then Cain went to the land of Nod on the east of Eden, got married (to an unnamed sister?), and founded a city (population 3), naming the city after his son, Enoch.
Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. 4:16
And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch. 4:17
In the next verse, there's a population explosion in the city of Enoch in the land of Nod.
And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech. 4:18
Four baby boys in a single verse! (No mention of wives or daughters. And every father had a single son. I guess the land of Nod had a one-son policy at the time.)
But Lamech broke the one (nameless) wife / one son rule. He had two wives (Adah and Zillah), and the three of them worked together to produce three sons and one daughter. (The daughter--Naamah--was the first daughter born in the Bible and the first named female, after Eve.)
Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. 4:19
And Adah bare Jabal ... And his brother's name was Jubal. 4:20-21
And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain ... and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah. 4:22
And that's all the Bible has to say about Cain and his descendants in the land of Nod. They were all destroyed in the flood.
OK, so it's time to count boys and girl babies.
There were five generations after Cain, each with one baby boy. (5)
Then there's Lamech's three sons and one daughter.
So the total for this episode is: 8 boys, 1 girl.
Cumulative total: 11 boys, 1 girl.
Next we get to count boys and girls in the Sethite line.
Posted by Steve Wells at 7/03/2013 04:08:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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2 comments:
teavee said...
It might be interesting to have a graph with the running total for boys and girls in book/chapter order.
Sat Jul 06, 12:26:00 PM 2013
Pecos B said...
Very interesting and informative
Sat Jul 06, 02:23:00 PM 2013
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01 July 2013Roy Zimmerman: I want a marriage like they had in the Bible
A few weeks ago, I attended Moscow's sixth (I think) annual Intolerista Wingding that featured Roy Zimmerman. Here's one of the songs that he sang (along with the lyrics and relevant Bible quotes).
I want a marriage like they had in the Bible, because the Bible tells me so.
Now, Abraham and Sarah had a marriage, but she could not bear him...a kid.
So Sarah gave Abraham a slave girl and pretty soon they did it and they did, Lord Lord. Pretty soon they did it and she did.
Now I know that slavery was banned. But a woman should be free to give a slave girl to her husband.
Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid ... And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai. And Sarai ... took Hagar her maid the Egyptian ... and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife. And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived. Genesis 16:1-4
I want a marriage like they had in the Bible, because the Bible tells me so.
Now Othniel and Achsah had a marriage, because she was a battle prize he won.
Yes, he fought to win Caleb's daughter. And he was Caleb's brother and his son-in-law.
Yeah, he was Caleb's brother and his son.
Now I know it sounds like incest, but a woman should be proud to be married off and princessed.
Caleb said, He that smiteth Kirjathsepher ... will I give Achsah my daughter to wife. And Othniel the son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother,. took it: and he gave him Achsah his daughter to wife. Judges 1:12-13
(There is some disagreement about whether Othniel was Caleb's brother or nephew, but either way "it sounds like incest.")
I want a marriage like they had in the Bible, because the Bible tells me so.
Now if two brothers live together and one dies, the other one must marry his brother's widow.
For this is pleasing in God's eyes. And if he should refuse, then she should steal his shoes and spit right in his face. It's right there in the Bible.
If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her ... And if the man like not to take his brother's wife ...Then shall his brother's wife ... loose his shoe from off his foot, and spit in his face. Deuteronomy 25:5-9
Now Jezebel and Ahab had a marriage. And she began usurping all his power.
She was wicked, of course, but he could not divorce her, so he had her thrown off a tower, Lord, Lord.
And sent the dogs her carcass to devour.
Now I know, it sounds excessive. But a woman should submit to her husband or be made a mess of.
Throw her down. So they threw her down: and some of her blood was sprinkled on the wall, and on the horses: and he trode her under foot ... And they went to bury her: but they found no more of her than the skull, and the feet, and the palms of her hands ... This is the word of the LORD, which he spake by his servant Elijah the Tishbite, saying, In the portion of Jezreel shall dogs eat the flesh of Jezebel. And the carcase of Jezebel shall be as dung upon the face of the field. 2 Kings 9:33-37
(Actually, though, in fairness to Ahab, he had nothing to do with his wife's death. Jehu, Elijah, and God were the co-conspirators of Jezebel's messy death.)
I want a marriage like they had in the Bible, because the Bible tells me so.
Now if a man should take a woman to be his, and it turns out he thinks she's not a virgin.
Well then her parents have a chance to prove she is. And if they let her down, then every man in town,
should stone her till she's dead. It's right there in the Bible. (Deuteronomy)
If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ... And say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And ... say ... these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity ... But if ... the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel, Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die. Deuteronomy 22:13-21
Now Solomon and Naamah had a marriage. And they were together all their lives.
Yes she was his. And he was pretty busy, cause she was one of seven hundred wives, Lord, Lord.
Yeah, Solomon had seven hundred wives. (And three hundred concubines.)
Now I know, that's illegal. But a woman should be one of as many wives as her husband can inveigle.
And Rehoboam the son of Solomon reigned in Judah ... And his mother's name was Naamah. 1 Kings 14:21
Solomon ... had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines. 1 Kings 11:2-3
I want a marriage like they had in the Bible, because the Bible tells me so.
Posted by Steve Wells at 7/01/2013 10:58:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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3 comments:
Christian said...
This is awesome. So often these theists tell us how marriage should be. Yet they have no idea what the Bible actually says about marriage.
Wed Jul 03, 05:34:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
This just in: Christian Polling Group Finds Atheists Divorce Less Than Christians.
Source:
http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/jun/29/al-westerfield-atheists-victims-of-hypocrisy-by/?print=1
Who knew? ^_^
Steve Weeks
Thu Jul 04, 08:19:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
Steve, I am in your debt for introducing me to this guy's work! He's like a cross between Tom Lehrer and Mark Russell.
Here's another great one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtIPqcD71nQ
("The wedding of church and state")
Steve Weeks
Fri Jul 05, 09:54:00 AM 2013
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01 July 2013Nicanor's army: The Almighty being their helper, they slew above nine thousand men
It’s hard to sort out God’s killings in First and Second Machabees. The same stories are often told, but the details are so different that it’s hard to believe they are the same story.
This is the account from 2 Machabees.
King Philip (Demetrius in 1 Machabees 7:4) sent Nicanor and Gorgias with 20,000 soldiers “to root out the whole race of the Jews.”
Philip … sent Nicanor ...giving him no fewer than twenty thousand armed men … to root out the whole race of the Jews, joining also with him Gorgias. 2 Machabees 8:9
When Judas found out about it, he gathered 7000 men “to fight manfully.”
Now when Judas found that Nicanor was coming, he imparted to the Jews that were with him, that the enemy was at hand. 8:12
But Machabeus calling together seven thousand … to fight manfully. 8:16
Telling them to trust in God who “at a beck” can destroy all of Nicanor’s army--along with “the whole world,” if he has a mind to.
Trust in the Almighty Lord, who at a beck can utterly destroy both them that come against us, and the whole world. 8:18
Like he did to Sennacherib’s 185,000 sleeping soldiers.
Moreover he put them in mind also of the helps their fathers had received from God: and how under Sennacherib a hundred and eighty-five thousand had been destroyed. 8:19
(“The angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.” 2 Kings 19.35, Isaiah 37.36)
And when 6,000 Jews and Macedonians slew 120,000 Galatians, “because of the help they had from heaven.”
And of the battle that they had fought against the Galatians in Babylonia, how they, being in all but six thousand, when it came to the point, and the Macedonians their companions were a stand, slew a hundred and twenty thousand, because of the help they had from heaven. 8:20a
For such a great slaughter, “they received many favors.”
And for this they received many favours. 8:20b
The speech had the desired effect, inspiring the troops to die for their country.
With these words they were greatly encouraged, and disposed even to die for the laws and their country. 8:21
After Judas concluded his speech by reading Esdras’s holy book and giving them the watchword “The help of God”, his soldiers went off to fight Nicanor.
And after the holy Book had been read to them by Esdras, and he had given them for a watchword, The help of God: himself leading the first band, he joined battle with Nicanor: 8:23
And with God as their helper, “they slew above nine thousand men” (“almost five thousand” in 1 Machabees 7:32).
The Almighty being their helper, they slew above nine thousand men ... of Nicanor's army. 8:24
Then they asked the “merciful God” to help them kill some more.
When this was done, and they had all made a common supplication, they besought the merciful Lord. 8:29
And with God’s help, they killed more than 20,000 in Timotheus and Bacchides’s army.
Moreover they slew above twenty thousand of them that were with Timotheus and Bacchides. 8:30
They killed Philarches (a wicked man).
They slew also Philarches ... a wicked man. 8:32
And they burned to death Callisthenes, as “a worthy reward for his impieties.”
They burnt Callisthenes, that had set fire to the holy gates, who had taken refuge in a certain house, rendering to him a worthy reward for his impieties: 8:33
------------------------------------------
Since the Galatian massacre that Judas referred to in 1 Machabees 8:20 isn’t recorded elsewhere in the Bible, I’ll give God credit for it here, and another 120,000 to his total.
And I’ll average the “almost five thousand” and “above nine thousand” in the two accounts and add another 7000 to God’s killings.
Then there was the 20,000 soldiers in 8:30, along with Philarches and Callisthenes.
So the total for this episode is 147,002.
Posted by Steve Wells at 7/01/2013 03:46:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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01 July 2013Genesis 1-3 and the definition of marriage
In the Bible's first creation story (Genesis 1:1-2:3), God created humans in his own image, male and female.
God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness … So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Genesis 1:26-27
Which seems a strange thing for a macho God to do.
Is God both male and female? Or were humans, as originally created by God, neither? Did sexuality come later, after the fall? (Notice that this story doesn’t say how many humans were created or what their names might be. There was no Adam, no Eve, or even Steve in this version.)
In the second creation account, God formed man from the dust of the ground.
God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7
And here too, the man is unnamed, and he remains unnamed until after God creates the animals in a misguided attempt to find a proper “help meet” for him, at which time God finally gives him a name (Adam).
God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam. Genesis 2:18-19
(You have to wonder what God was thinking here. Did he expect Adam to fall for a raccoon or a blue-footed booby perhaps? Did he create 350,000 species of beetles thinking they might make good matches for Adam? And if God was OK with that, could he object to Adam and Steve?)
After the newly-named Adam examined and rejected the millions of species of animals that God created to be his “help meet,” God tried again, this time creating something from Adam’s rib.
The LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. Genesis 2:21-22
This newly-formed rib-creature was much more to Adam’s liking. And he immediately named it “Woman” (not “Eve”--that name didn’t come until later).
And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Genesis 2:23
So what was this “woman” like, anyway? Was she a clone of Adam, since she was created (or cloned) from his rib? Did she have the same genitalia as Adam or did they both lack sexual organs, since there was no need for reproduction before the fall?
In any case, Adam goes on to explain the purpose of marriage in the next verse.
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Genesis 2:24
Now that may seem like a strange thing for a man with no father or mother to say, but there it is. The point Adam was making was this: the purpose of marriage is companionship, not procreation. And Jesus seemed to agree with this in Matthew 19:5.
For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh.
It wasn’t until after the fall that sex and procreation became a part of marriage, when God punished the (still nameless) woman with the pain of childbirth, and the desire for(?) and subjection to her husband.
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Genesis 3:16
Everything changed after the fall. Death entered the world, and along with it, the need for procreation. Adam recognized this and renamed “the woman” accordingly.
Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. Genesis 3:20
So according to the Genesis creation stories, heterosexual reproduction was an unintended consequence of the fall. Marriage, as originally created, was for love and companionship so that two “shall be one flesh.”
And that works for either Adam and Eve or Adam and Steve.
Posted by Steve Wells at 7/01/2013 01:35:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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6 comments:
John B (SiftingReality.com) said...
That's kind of a stretch. Pain in child bearing is a result of the fall, but you seem to be reading into the passages a bit.
Tue Jul 02, 05:21:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
Both of the Genesis creation stories are stretches, John B.
You say that pain in child bearing is a result of the fall, which is about all most believers know about the creation stories. But the other crazy stuff in my post is right there in Genesis. God created all the animals as potential mates for Adam. That's not a stretch, that's what it says in Genesis 2:18-19.
You say I'm reading into the passages a bit. But have you even read the passages?
Tue Jul 02, 08:16:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
@ John B.
Pain in childbearing is due to a number of factors, including our upright posture and the evolution of our large brains compared to other primates. Sadly, you seem to have failed to use your brain to its capacity to understand the world around you. "We are risen apes, not fallen angels."
Try reading another book.
A nice short one is Andy Thomson's "Why We Believe in Gods; a concise guide to the science of faith".
Steve Weeks
Fri Jul 05, 10:09:00 AM 2013
??????????????????? said...
Baruch Hashem. I really like this interpretation. Do you mind if I share at Torah Study when we start over in Genesis?
Wed Jul 17, 02:34:00 PM 2013
Errol Smythe said...
There are no contradictions in The Holy Bible. The Holy Scriptures are of no private interpretation. [ 2 Peter 1:20 ].
The Holy Scriptures are written in such a way that Scripture interprets Scriptures so that "..in the mouth of two or three witnesses, everything is established..". [ Deuteronomy 17:6 ; Deuteronomy 19:15; Matthew 18:16 ; 2 Corinthians 13:1 etc ].
No doctrine can be established by a single Scripture.Doctrines are established on two or more Scriptures in respect of the dispensational period.
For example , we have what Bible Scholars refer to as "..The Dispensation of Law .." and we also have what Bible Scholars refer to as the Dispensation of Grace.
In John 1:17 we read :
"... For The Law was given by Moses, but Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ...".
".. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith...". [ Galatians 3:24 ].
"... For by Grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of GOD :..". [ Ephesians 2:8 ].
Doctrines based on a single Scripture are private opinions which are private interpretations that result in confusion.
The Holy Bible Says That GOD is a Spirit. [ John 4:24].
In Romans 4:17 we read that GOD "...calls things that are not as though they already were...".
For example, when an inventor has an idea, he has a concept of what he wants to invent in his mind.
The invention exists in his mind as a thought, then he puts it on paper and the idea exists on paper either as sketches on a draft plan which he then uses as a draft blue print to bring his invention into manifestation.
Before children are born, dad and mum will make preparations for the manifestation of the children.
The children will exist in the genes of dad and mum ,that are brought together by the act of procreation.
We were once Thoughts of GOD, then we came into manifestation.
Human beings are created in the Image of GOD.
Human beings have a body , mind , soul and spirit.
Genesis Chapter One deals with The Creation of heaven and earth , in the beginning. [ Genesis 1:1 ].
In Genesis 1:1 we see that GOD is The Creator of heaven and earth.
Heaven refers to everything in the first heaven, and the second heaven and the third heaven.
We get to know in the rest of The Holy Bible that GOD dwells in the first heaven with The Host of Angels that didnot rebel with Lucifer and the rebellious angels.
The second heaven is where the fallen angels occupy, i.e. the prince of the power of the air a,k.a. the prince of darkness ... in other words "..spiritual wickedness in high places...".
The first heaven is what we see when we look up with tinted glasses during the day i.e. the sun..or a telescope at night..
In the third heaven ,we have the sun, we have the moon, we have the stars and the planets, the galaxies and the universe etc.
In Genesis 1:1. we see the Origin of Space, Matter and Time.
".. In the beginning [ TIME ] GOD created the heaven [ SPACE ] and the earth [ MATTER ].
Notice in Genesis 1:1, Time begins.
Before Genesis 1;1, there was Eternity . There is no Time in Eternity.
Time began when the heaven and the earth were created...when the sun, earth, moon and stars, planets, galaxies, universes were created...
Between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1.2 , we do not know what time period elapsed. We do not know how many AEONS elapsed. There is no record. It could have been billions of years in what we understand as time.
... Space on your blog limits the answer, but if you are interested you may read a more detailed "..commentary.." on Genesis 1:1-5 on this link :
http://www.scribd.com/doc/149228323/Genesis-1-1-5-Creation-of-heaven-and-earth
Fri Jul 19, 12:57:00 AM 2013
Tony said...
...or Madam and Eve.
Thu Jul 25, 10:05:00 AM 2013
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01 July 2013Congratulations, it's a boy! Episode 1: Adam and Eve
Evan Ringuette at StaticDespair.com posted this on twitter.
And it got me to thinking. What percentage of the bible's babies were boys?
So I started at the beginning of Genesis and went through the bible counting male and female babies.
It's going to take me a while to get through them all though, so I decided to do it in a series of posts.
Here's the first one.
Adam and Eve
It didn't take long for Adam and Eve to get down to business after leaving the garden of Eden. In the next two verses they had two kids, both boys, named Cain and Abel.
And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. And she again bare his brother Abel. Genesis 4:1-2
Six verses later, Cain killed Abel.
Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. Gen 4:8
130 years after that, Adam and Eve decided to make a replacement for Abel. God cooperated by giving them another boy, named Seth.
And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. Gen 4:25
Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth. Gen 5:3
So apparently, Adam and Eve disobeyed God's command to "be fruitful and multiply" (Gen 1:28) by having only three kids in 130 years. But after abstaining from sex (or practicing some killer form of birth control) they finally had some more kids in the next 800 years or so.
And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died. Genesis 5:4-5
Since the Bible didn't bother giving theses latter day babies names, sexes, or numbers, I won't either.
So the score for this episode is: boys 3, girls 0.
Posted by Steve Wells at 7/01/2013 08:56:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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3 comments:
teavee said...
Your Quiverfull post has quite a few boy/girl offspring counts listed:
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2010/09/who-wins-bibles-quiverfull-prize.html
This web page should help a lot (OT only it seems):
http://www.d.umn.edu/~jbelote/bible2.html
Add in the genealogy of Jesus and that should cover almost all of it.
Tue Jul 02, 10:28:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
Thanks teavee. I'll refer to all of them as I go along. And be sure to check my numbers and make sure I don't leave any out.
Any guess about what the total will come to?
Wed Jul 03, 04:55:00 PM 2013
teavee said...
I expect the boys will outnumber the girls but the 99% figure in the post seems quite skewed.
Sat Jul 06, 12:10:00 PM 2013
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22 August 2013The Dragons of God
There's a new book out about dragons called Dragons or Dinosaurs? by Derek Isaacs.
It turns out that the dragons that are so often mentioned in the Bible are real after all! Here's what Mr. Isaacs says about them:
The Old Testament scribes wrote that they saw creatures, prowling, hissing, swimming, and even breathing fire. ... I will shine a spotlight for all to see that the Bible speaks of dragons as real. ... Because what is harder to believe, that dragons are real, or that Jesus Christ is the author of life and the Savior of all humanity?
To help you with your decision about dragons (and Jesus), here's a list of all the verses in the King James Version that mention them. (Dragons, that is.)
But be careful. If you reject God's dragons, you'll probably also reject God's son. Because as Mr. Isaacs rightly points out, one is about as absurd as the other.
Their wine is the poison of dragons. Deuteronomy 32:33
And I went out by night by the gate of the valley, even before the dragon well. Nehemiah 2:13
I am a companion to dragons, and a companion to owls. Job 30:29
Thou hast sore broken us in the place of dragons. Psalm 44:19
Thou breakest the heads of dragons. Psalm 74:13
The dragon shalt thou trample under feet. Psalm 91:13
Praise the Lord from the earth, ye dragons. Psalm 148:7
Satyrs shall dance there ... and dragons in their pleasant palaces. Isaiah 13:22
The LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea. Isaiah 27:1
It shall be an habitation of dragons ... and the satyr shall cry to his fellow. Isaiah 34:13-14
In the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes. Isaiah 35:7
The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness. Isaiah 43:20
Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon? Isaiah 51:9
I will make Jerusalem heaps, and a den of dragons. Jeremiah 9:11
To make the cities of Judah desolate, and a den of dragons. Jeremiah 10:22
The wild asses ... snuffed up the wind like dragons. Jeremiah 14:6
Hazor shall be a dwelling for dragons. Jeremiah 49:33
Nebuchadrezzar ... hath swallowed me up like a dragon. Jeremiah 51:34
Babylon shall become heaps, a dwellingplace for dragons. Jeremiah 51:37
Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers. Ezekiel 29:3
I will wail and howl, I will go stripped and naked: I will make a wailing like the dragons. Micah 1:8
I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. Malachi 1:3
There appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. Revelation 12:3
The dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. Revelation 12:4
There was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels. Revelation 12:7
And the great dragon was cast out. Revelation 12:9
When the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. Revelation 12:13
The earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. Revelation 12:16
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed. Revelation 12:17
The beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power. Revelation 13:2
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast. Revelation 13:4
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. Revelation 13:11
I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. Revelation 16:13
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years. Revelation 20:2
Posted by Steve Wells at 8/22/2013 02:38:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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17 comments:
Christian said...
Creationists are my pet peev, actually let me clarify they are the bane of my life. I cannot believe intelligent people can believe this rubbi9sh, they are either all frauds or all idiots.
Thu Aug 22, 05:38:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
I think we're dragon this topic out a bit. ;-)
Steve Weeks
Fri Aug 23, 02:53:00 PM 2013
bob said...
A 'dragon' in Scripture is generally used to describe anything from a lizard to a dinosaur.
Fri Aug 23, 04:11:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
What? You think dragons are boring, Steve?
I will wail and howl, I will go stripped and naked: I will make a wailing like the dragons. Micah 1:8
The dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. Revelation 12:4
There was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon. Revelation 12:7
I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. Revelation 16:13
There's nothing boring about that stuff. (It's amazing how interesting "lizards" and "dinosaurs" can be.)
Fri Aug 23, 05:22:00 PM 2013
bob said...
The description of 'dragon' in Micah 1:8, Revelation 12:4, 7; 16:13 are obviously metaphorical.
Another good example of this is 1Peter 5:8 where 'lion' is used metaphorically.
"...because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour."
And 'lion' is also used to describe a ruler or king.
"Behold the Lion of the tribe of Judah [Christ]" Revelation 5:5
If you blokes did not spend all your energy running the Bible into the ground, you might have learnt something by now.
Sat Aug 24, 02:48:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
Bob said: "The description of 'dragon' in Micah 1:8, Revelation 12:4, 7; 16:13 are obviously metaphorical."
So... something in the bible is metaphorical. What standard do you use to decide what's metaphorical and what is literal? Try to be brief. ;-)
Steve Weeks
Sat Aug 24, 05:50:00 PM 2013
bob said...
Stephen, you said,
"So... something in the bible is metaphorical. What standard do you use to decide what's metaphorical and what is literal? Try to be brief. ;-)"
Let Scripture interpret Scripture.
In other words, whether something is metaphorical/symbolic/allegorical/poetic or literal is determined by the commentary of the surrounding scripture, as demonstrated by the two above examples.
Another example is when God questions Job (38:4-6) with terms that are commonly used in the construction of buildings.
"Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell me if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line [string line] upon it? To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone...?"
Mon Aug 26, 01:57:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
Bob, you said: "Another example is when God questions Job (38:4-6) with terms that are commonly used in the construction of buildings."
OK... so that's metaphor. Please explain the metaphor in 2 Kings 2:23-24. I'm interested in the context that would tell me it's not just another example of god's fondness for slaughter.
I've got my popcorn. :-)
Steve Weeks
Tue Aug 27, 07:13:00 AM 2013
bob said...
"Please explain the metaphor in 2 Kings 2:23-24. I'm interested in the context that would tell me it's not just another example of god's fondness for slaughter."
There is no metaphor, it is just a direct historical account.
A gang of louts was on the verge of physically assaulting a servant of God who was going about God’s business, so God passed judgement on them.
Tue Aug 27, 09:35:00 AM 2013
Bill Forward said...
bob, the Almighty could just as easily have teleported all those supposely dangerous kidlets into their beds without supper. And then followed it up with making *them* bald for a year. "See how you like it!"
Thu Aug 29, 09:57:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
Bill, that's what you would do if *you* were god. But our Boy loves a good bit of bloody carnage.
Come to think of it, I like you as god better than the Old Imaginary Guy himself... you have a sense of humor!
Steve Weeks
Thu Aug 29, 07:57:00 PM 2013
bob said...
Bill,
"the Almighty could just as easily have teleported all those supposely dangerous kidlets into their beds without supper.”
‘Little children’ can refer to emotional, mental, intellectual, capacity rather than just physical age. It can also be meant in the sense of spiritual development.
For example, when John says “little children” (1John 3:7, 18; 5:21) he means in a spiritual sense even though he is talking to adults.
“And then followed it up with making *them* bald for a year. "See how you like it!"
He could have, but he didn't. And “mauled 42 of the youths” does not indicate that anyone was killed. The word can refer to an injury as minor as a cut. That two bears were able to injure so many indicates that the youths were fighting the bears, and didn’t scatter.
So what’s not "See how you like it!" about that?
Fri Aug 30, 12:42:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
Bob: And “mauled 42 of the youths” does not indicate that anyone was killed. The word can refer to an injury as minor as a cut. That two bears were able to injure so many indicates that the youths were fighting the bears, and didn’t scatter.
OK, Bob, you win the prize for being able to make up explanations for *anything* in the bible so it suits your agenda. I stand in awe of your talent... you are an apologist's apologist!
Steve Weeks
Fri Aug 30, 04:15:00 AM 2013
Bill Forward said...
"Come to think of it, I like you as god better than the Old Imaginary Guy himself... you have a sense of humor!"
> Thank you. It's vital when you converse with Bible fans.
Fri Aug 30, 12:12:00 PM 2013
bob said...
Stephen,
"OK, Bob, you win the prize for being able to make up explanations for *anything* in the bible so it suits your agenda. I stand in awe of your talent... you are an apologist's apologist!"
Thanks, but I should point out that there is nothing made up, and that the agenda is to discover what the text is actually saying.
All we read in the text is “some youths came up from the city and mocked him,” meaning they went out of their way to cause trouble, and we also read that there were at LEAST 42 of them. Then we read that God decided on a little poetic justice in the form of a couple of bears to give them a well-deserved hiding. The trouble makers only copped a good dose of what they intended for another, i.e. “See how you like it!”
If anything, in some respects it may have been a rather comical sight, with the youths coming off second best.
Whereas your ‘agenda’ immediately jumps to the conclusion or ‘makes up the explanation’ that some small innocent children were savagely murdered for no good reason; oh the poor little children! Boo hoo.
But in reality, if you yourself were being threatened by a mob of delinquents you might also ask God to sort them out by means of a good hiding, which, in the long run, would only do them the world of good anyway by humbling them and teaching them to respect their elders.
Fri Aug 30, 12:35:00 PM 2013
Nathan said...
Just based on some quick Internet research, it appears that the Old Testament uses the word tannin, which can mean any kind of monster. And the mentions of a unicorn probably mean an aurochs. Kind of disappointing, really.
Sat Aug 31, 02:17:00 PM 2013
Smoderatore said...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLNUTKHXuEM
Mon Sep 02, 10:48:00 AM 2013
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20 August 2013Was Ishmael (pb&jbuh) gay?
Sarah (she was called “Sarai” back then) was the first of a long line of barren women who were desperate for children. (In the Bible, it is the women who are barren, never the men.) So she sent Abraham (“Abram”) “in unto” her slave, Hagar, so that she can "obtain children by her." Abraham does as he’s told and impregnates Hagar.
Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar. And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai. Sarai ... took Hagar her maid the Egyptian ... and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife. And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived. Genesis 16:1-4
Soon Sarah became jealous of Hagar and treated her so badly that Hagar ran away. Then an angel appeared and told Hagar to return to her mistress. So she did, and amid this messed up family life situation Ishmael was born.
When Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled from her face. And the angel of the LORD found her ... And he said ... Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands ... Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael. 16:6-11
Fourteen years later, God helped Sarah get pregnant, and Isaac was born. (I’ll skip Bible quotes here.) Then after Isaac was weaned, Sarah saw the 16-year-old Ishmael “mocking” his two-year-old brother.
The child [Isaac] grew, and was weaned ... And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking. 21:8-9
Some have suggested that Ishmael’s “mocking” of his younger brother Isaac was of a sexual nature, noting that the same word (metzahek) is used to describe the behaviour in this verse is used in Genesis 26:8 to describe Isaac's fondling of Rebekah.
Abimelech king of the Philistines looked out at a window, and saw, and, behold, Isaac was sporting [metzahek] with Rebekah his wife. 26:8
If so, that might explain Sarah’s hostility toward Ishmael, since in the very next verse she tells Abraham to abandon Ishmael and his mother Hagar. (Although Sarah was hostile to Ishmael while he was still in Hagar’s womb.)
Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son. 21:10
God, by the way, agreed with Sarah, telling Abraham to do what she said.
And God said unto Abraham ... hearken unto her voice. 21:12
Maybe God saw what Sarah saw.
Posted by Steve Wells at 8/20/2013 12:12:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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bob said...
"The child [Isaac] grew, and was weaned ... And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking. 21:8-9"
7048. qallâçâh kal-law-saw' Definition: ridicule. KJV Translation(s): mocking.
1701. ἐμπαιγμός empaigmós emp-aheeg-mos' Definition: derision. KJV Translation(s): mocking.
1702. ἐμπαίζω empaízō emp-aheed'-zo Definition: to jeer at, i.e. deride. KJV Translation(s): mock.
“Some have suggested that Ishmael’s “mocking” of his younger brother Isaac was of a sexual nature, noting that the same word (metzahek) is used to describe the behaviour in this verse is used in Genesis 26:8 to describe Isaac's fondling of Rebekah.”
Who is this “some” that have “suggested” and where can we find “metzahek”?
“Abimelech king of the Philistines looked out at a window, and saw, and, behold, Isaac was sporting [metzahek] with Rebekah his wife. 26:8”
6711. tsâchaq tsaw-khak' Definition: to laugh outright (in merriment or scorn); by implication, to sport. KJV Translation(s): laugh, mock, play, make sport.
7832. sâchaq saw-khak' Definition: to laugh (in pleasure or detraction); by implication, to play. KJV Translation(s): deride, have in derision, laugh, make merry, mock(-er), play, rejoice, (laugh to) scorn, be in (make) sport.
Strong's Dictionary of the Bible
(2011-08-26).
Wed Aug 21, 01:53:00 AM 2013
Steve Wells said...
Here are a few sources that suggest that Ishmael was sexually molesting his younger half-brother Isaac.
Gerald Larue, Sex and the Bible, 99
Jonathan Kirsch, The Harlot by the Side of the Road, 48-51
David J. Zucker, What Sarah Saw: Envisioning Genesis 21:9-10
See the article by Zucker for "metzahek".
Wed Aug 21, 12:50:00 PM 2013
bob said...
“Here are a few sources that suggest that Ishmael was sexually molesting his younger half-brother Isaac.”
It may also be worth considering the following.
“9. Ishmael's "'playing' with Isaac need mean no more than the older boy was trying to amuse his
little brother. There is nothing in the text to suggest he was abusing him." Speiser, p. 155. In
Genesis 19:14 the same verb "metzahek" has the sense of "jesting" or "kidding" someone. It is a very flexible verb.” (from the article: What Sarah Saw, by D. Zucker)
In other words, the true meaning of this verb is dependent on the commentary of the surrounding scripture.
There was already tension between Sarah and Hagar (Genesis 16:4-6), so when Sarah saw Hagar’s son scoffing (NKJV), laughing (ESV) making fun of (NLT) making sport (Torah, Tanakh), mocking (KJV, Amplified, NIV, NASB) Isaac, it was the last straw and she reacted angrily with, “Cast out this bondwoman and her son.” She was at the same time also aware that God would establish his covenant with Isaac rather than Ishmael (Genesis 17:21). Hence, “For the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, namely Isaac.”
“Some Bible critics have been bold enough to suggest that the biblical text is intended to reveal that Ishmael is engaged in some kind of sex-play with young Isaac, but the pious editors of the Masoretic Text sought to play down the disturbing sexuality of the scene by leaving out the key phrase “with her son Isaac.” The Septuagint and the Vulgate, it is suggested, preserve the original, complete and unexpurgated text—and these translations preserve, too, a hint of what Sarah sees.”
(Kirsch, Jonathan (2010-11-30). The Harlot By The Side Of The Road: Forbidden Tales of the Bible, p. 50)
Here Bible critics are “Suggesting” or ascribing meaning to the text without actual real textual proof of the incident happening. In other words, just an unsubstantiated “suggested” hypothesis/opinion.
continued...
Thu Aug 22, 01:54:00 AM 2013
bob said...
MOCK, MOCKER, MOCKING
A. Verbs.
1. empaizo (1702), a compound of paizo, “to play like a child” (pais), “to sport, jest,” prefixed by en, “in” or “at,” is used only in the Synoptists, and, in every instance, of the “mockery” of Christ, except in Matt. 2:16 (there in the sense of deluding, or deceiving, of Herod by the wise men) and in Luke 14:29, of ridicule cast upon the one who after laying a foundation of a tower is unable to finish it. The word is used (a) prophetically by the Lord, of His impending sufferings, Matt. 20:19; Mark 10:34; Luke 18:32; (b) of the actual insults inflicted upon Him by the men who had taken Him from Gethsemane, Luke 22:63; by Herod and his soldiers, Luke 23:11; by the soldiers of the governor, Matt. 27:29, 31; Mark 15:20; Luke 23:36; by the chief priests, Matt. 27:41; Mark 15:31.¶
2. mukterizo (3456), from mukter, “the nose,” hence, “to turn up the nose at, sneer at, treat with contempt,” is used in the passive voice in Gal. 6:7, where the statement “God is not mocked” does not mean that men do not mock Him (see Prov. 1:30, where the Sept. has the same verb); the apostle vividly contrasts the essential difference between God and man. It is impossible to impose upon Him who discerns the thoughts and intents of the heart.¶
Note: Ekmukterizo, a strengthened form of the above, “to scoff at,” is used in Luke 16:14 and 23:35 (RV, “scoffed at”; KJV, “derided”). See Deride, Scoff.¶
3. chleuazo (5512), “to jest, mock, jeer at” (from chleue, “a jest”), is said of the ridicule of some of the Athenian philosophers at the apostle’s testimony concerning the resurrection of the dead, Acts 17:32.¶
4. diachleuazo, an intensive form of No. 3, “to scoff at,” whether by gesture or word, is said of those who jeered at the testimony given on the Day of Pentecost, Acts 2:13 (some mss. have No. 3).¶
B. Nouns.
1. empaiktes (1703), “a mocker” (akin to A, No. 1), is used in 2 Pet. 3:3, RV, “mockers”. (KJV, “scoffers”); Jude 18, RV and KJV, “mockers.”¶ In the Sept., Isa. 3:4.¶
2. empaigmos (1701), the act of the empaiktes, “a mocking,” is used in Heb. 11:36, “mockings.”¶ In the Sept., Ps. 38:7; Ezek. 22:4.¶
3. empaigmone (1702d), an abstract noun, “mockery,” is used in 2 Pet. 3:3 (some mss. omit it, as in KJV): (see also No. 1, above).¶
Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words: (1996-08-28).
Thu Aug 22, 01:55:00 AM 2013
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19 August 2013Herman Cain doubts that anyone will want to relax on their vacation while reading The Skeptics Annotated Bible
I never thought I'd see the day when the SAB was mentioned by Herman Cain. But it happened today.
Mr. Cain wrote an article in The Canada Free Press about the Gideon vs. Skeptic's Annotated Bible competition that is now taking place in Georgia's state parks. In it, he explains that Governor Nathan Deal decided to allow atheists to place their literature alongside Gideon Bibles.
Nathan Deal, who said that the state could hardly be seen to be establishing an official religion just because it allowed one group to donate Bibles. Besides, Deal said, if atheists wanted to donate atheist books, no one would stop them either.
But Mr. Cain doubts that many people will want to read the SAB.
The atheists are going to do just that. I’m having a hard time thinking that many people will want to relax on their vacation while reading The Skeptics Annotated Bible, but this is America so the atheists can give it their best shot.
And he's probably right about that.
But I bet the SABs will get more reading time than the Gideon Bibles. Because as anyone who has ever picked up a Gideon Bible knows -- the Bible is boring.
Here's what Mr. Cain's competitor, Mitt Romney, said about it.
I find myself having to read for an hour or so before I can fall asleep. And thanks to the Gideons, I've got good material.
I doubt if the SAB will have the same effect.
Posted by Steve Wells at 8/19/2013 08:35:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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Urbane Gorilla said...
Cain thinks nobody will read or even peruse the Skeptic's Bible while on vacation....yet they will read the Gideon's Bible? He must think that Agnostics and Atheists have no interest in intellectual pursuit...or even curiosity about what the Skeptic's Bible has to offer. Seriously?
Mon Aug 19, 02:38:00 PM 2013
Sabio Lantz said...
I agree -- the Skeptic Bible will probably be a lot more fun -- I'll bet even Christians would more gladly sneak a peek at that text than the boring one they hear about all the time and ignore.
Good job
Tue Aug 20, 10:14:00 AM 2013
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18 August 2013An interactive view of the SAB
OK, this is pretty cool.
It's a website (http://www.bibviz.com/) that displays various categories at the SAB in an interactive form. It's hard to describe and screenshots can't capture the interactive part. You've just got to go there to see for yourself.
The first plot shows the 474 contradictions that are listed at the SAB. When you pass your mouse over the lines on the chart, individual contradictions are highlighted, showing the verses involved. If you click on the highlighted line, it'll take you to the contradiction at the SAB.
[The blue lines at the bottom of the chart represent the chapters in the Bible, with the length scaled by the length of the chapter. (I'm not sure if that's the number of verses, words, or characters.) Clicking on a line will take you to that chapter at the Bible Gateway (not the SAB).]
Here's the cruelty category graph.
It shows the number of cruel verses in each book of the Bible. The width of the bar is scaled by the length of the book, and the height by the number of cruel verses. It is similar to the my previous analysis, except this plot seems to use the number of verses instead of the number of passages listed at the SAB. (I'm not sure about this, though. If you figure that out, let us know in the comments.)
There are also graphs for the SAB categories of Science, Misogyny, and Homosexuality. Fun stuff.
Posted by Steve Wells at 8/18/2013 10:47:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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skanksta said...
beautiful :)
Mon Aug 19, 04:03:00 PM 2013
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14 August 2013Cage Match: The Holy Spirit vs. the Skeptic's Annotated Bible (Live in Georgia)
Here's what a visitor had to say:
"God gave us all free will, to make our own choice. If they leave their material in there, the holy spirit is the stronger spirit than theirs and people will read The Word over their words."
I'm not sure he's right about words and spirits and such, but I like the way he's thinking. Let's see what Governor Deal says. Will he allow the spirits to fight it out in the cage?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are the latest news reports:
August 16 - Atheists to include books of choice in Georgia state park cabins
August 19 - Herman Cain: I’m having a hard time thinking that many people will want to relax on their vacation while reading The Skeptics Annotated Bible
Posted by Philip Wells at 8/14/2013 07:06:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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Stephen said...
Hahaha... when I viewed the clip, it opened with a commercial for "Angel Soft" toilet paper!
Say, what's this "free weal" the guy is talking about? ;-)
Steve Weeks
Thu Aug 15, 07:31:00 AM 2013
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14 August 2013Skeptic's Annotated Bibles to be placed in Georgia State Parks today!
We have donated 100 copies of the Skeptic's Annotated Bible to be placed in the cabins in two Georgia State Parks this afternoon.
Ed Buckner (former president of the American Atheists) is placing them in Red Top Mountain State Park and A.H. Stephens State Park. Other books to be donated include Faith Fear Fact Fantasy by the late Dr. John Henderson and Why I am not a Muslim by Ibn Warraq. (These two titles were donated by the American Atheists.)
You can check out The Friendly Atheist's article here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1:05 pm update: Tyler Morning Telegraph - Atheist texts delivered to Georgia state park
Posted by Steve Wells at 8/14/2013 11:46:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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Stephen said...
Nice! I also saw this on Reddit/atheism.
The labels thanking the Governor are a priceless idea!
Steve Weeks
Wed Aug 14, 06:56:00 PM 2013
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14 August 2013Mr. Deity and the Hat
20 August 13 update: Since some of you may not have completely understood what Mr. Deity was referring to in the begging segment, I'm including his remarks about that below.
Posted by Steve Wells at 8/14/2013 07:52:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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bob said...
5:50 "They [Gospel writers] have him [Jesus] claiming to be God which would be a major blasphemy within Judaism at the time"
Which is why they had him crucified.
But in denying his divinity, it is Judaism that is committing the blasphemy, since Moses and all the prophets foretold that God would be manifested in the flesh, which Jesus clearly demonstrated that he was.
All the miracles that were performed by Jesus confirmed that he was indeed the Creator in the flesh, and he had no problem in demonstrating his creative power, which was witnessed by many, like feeding 5000 people, turning water into wine, restoring sight to the blind, healing the sick and raising the dead – all creative acts.
His human nature and body (the flesh), after dying on the cross, returned back to life after three days. Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up” John 2:19 (only his human nature was killed. His divine nature remained intact because it is impossible to kill God)
“…I lay down my life that I may take it again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.” John 10:17, 18. Only God has this power.
Jesus also accepted worship and forgave sins which only God has the authority to do since he is the one we have sinned against.
“That all should honour the Son just as they honour the Father. He who does not honour the Son does not honour the Father who sent him.” John 5:23
Satan himself was one of the best witness’s that Jesus was God the Creator, when, at the end of forty days of being tempted by the devil, during which time Jesus ate nothing and was hungry, the devil said to him,
“If [since] you are the Son of God, command this stone to become bread.” But Jesus answered him, saying, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.’” Luke 4:3, 4
This would have been a pointless temptation if Jesus was not the Creator but just an ordinary man who could not turn stones into bread.
In fact, all the devils/demons/evil spirits were subject to his authority and feared him greatly.
…there was a man who had a spirit of an unclean demon. And he cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Let us alone! What have we to do with you, Jesus of Nazareth? Did you come to destroy us? I know you, who you are – the Holy One of God!” But Jesus rebuked him, saying, “Be quiet, and come out of him!” Luke 4:33-35.
The argument that the Gospels are invalid because the writers were anonymous does not work, because the actual Author is the Holy Spirit.
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God” 2Timothy 3:16
“knowing this first, that no prophesy of Scripture is of any private interpretation; for prophesy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.” 2Peter 1:20-21
The whole Bible is the Gospel (the message of the good news of salvation), from beginning to end, related from the perspective of a succession of writers, in the style and language of the time, as they were moved and inspired by the Holy Spirit, the Bible’s one true Author.
Sat Aug 17, 01:45:00 AM 2013
skanksta said...
logical Bob strikes again !
Sat Aug 17, 05:45:00 PM 2013
bob said...
6:20 “As good atheists, sceptics and freethinkers…”
"Given their own presuppositions, materialists have not freely arrived at their conclusion that materialism is true, because their conclusion was predetermined by brain chemistry. ...So ...they can’t even help what they believe (including their belief in materialism!). Yet often call themselves ‘freethinkers’, overlooking the glaring irony!"
From an article entitled:
Presuppositions required for science, ‘Christian’ v atheist atrocities, defending the faith/ creation.com
Sun Aug 18, 03:57:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
"Jesus was temporarily inconvenienced for your sins."
^_^
Steve Weeks
Tue Aug 20, 03:33:00 AM 2013
Bill Forward said...
Ahhh... Presuppositional rhetoric. The usual combination of circular reasoning, Ad Hominem attacks, and "poisoning of the wells" so that anything anyone says to demolish these blathering blurtations of intellectual dishonesty actually "PROVES" fundamentalism to be true!
Oh my! How convenient!
-
Thought for the Day: "The Jews called. They want their religion back!"
-
HisGalHess@yahoo.com
Sat Oct 12, 10:52:00 AM 2013
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God's Top 50 Killings in the Bible
Where do evil spirits come from?
David, a man after God's own heart (WWDD?)
The worth of a woman: The Bible vs. the Quran
208 ways to get yourself saved
Real men pee standing up
Everybody must get stoned
Where do evil spirits come from?
What does Jesus have written on his testicles?
Which is more violent, the Bible or the Quran?
Why Christian "Marriage" is Wrong
Is it wrong to burn people to death?
The Top 50 Bible Stories for kids
Which bits of the Bible are we still to believe?
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09 August 2013The Spirit of God came upon him and he stripped off all his clothes
Sometimes, to really get God’s attention, a prophet just has to get naked. At least that’s the way it worked for Saul.
The story begins with Saul being plagued by an evil spirit from God.
And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul. 1 Samuel 19:9
Then Saul tries to kill David, but David’s wife, Michal, helped him escape.
So Saul sent messengers to find David, but they found Samuel and a group of prophesying prophets instead.
And Saul sent messengers to take David: and when they saw the company of the prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as appointed over them. 19:20a
When the messengers saw everyone prophesying, the Spirit of God came upon them and they started prophesying too.
The Spirit of God was upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied. 19:20b
When Saul found out that his messengers were prophesying, he sent more messengers--and when they got to the prophesying party, they started “prophesying likewise.”
When it was told Saul, he sent other messengers, and they prophesied likewise. 19:21a
And when Saul heard that his second set of messengers were prophesying, he sent a third group of messengers and “they prophesied also.”
And Saul sent messengers again the third time, and they prophesied also.19:21b
After sending the three groups of messengers who all began prophesying, Saul decided to go there himself. As soon as he arrived, the Spirit of God came upon Saul also, and he began prophesying.
And he [Saul] went thither to Naioth in Ramah: and the Spirit of God was upon him also, and he went on, and prophesied. 19:23
And not only did Saul prophesy, but he stripped off all of his clothes “also.” Apparently when the Spirit of the Lord comes upon you and you start prophesying, you’ve got to take off all your clothes. God likes to see what he’s dealing with.
And he stripped off his clothes also. 19:24a
Saul was naked in front of God and everybody all day and all night.
And lay down naked all that day and all that night. 19:24b
That’s why they say, “Is Saul also among the prophets?”
Wherefore they say, Is Saul also among the prophets? 19:20-24c
I know that’s why I always say it.
But how come nobody prophesies naked anymore?
Posted by Steve Wells at 8/09/2013 04:11:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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bob said...
"And not only did Saul prophesy, but he stripped off all of his clothes “also.” Apparently when the Spirit of the Lord comes upon you and you start prophesying, you’ve got to take off all your clothes. God likes to see what he’s dealing with."
"But how come nobody prophesies naked anymore?"
Verse 24 actually means that Saul was the only one without clothes. This was an additional action by Saul which was unrelated to the others who were prophesising. Everyone except for Saul still had their clothes on.
Fri Aug 09, 05:01:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
Oh, gosh, thanks bob. I don't know how you know these things, but maybe the Spirit of the Lord comes upon you when you're prophesying. Do you keep your clothes on or off when that happens?
If on, I think you should reconsider. God told Isaiah to go completely naked as a sign and a wonder for 3 years in Isaiah 20:2-4 and Micah (or God) went stripped and naked in Micah 1:8. And, of course, David danced nearly naked in front of God and everybody in 2 Samuel 6:14.
Just something to consider while you're prophesying.
Fri Aug 09, 07:47:00 PM 2013
bob said...
"I don't know how you know these things..."
Just read the verses in order instead of mixing them up to suit your own imagination.
"but maybe the Spirit of the Lord comes upon you when you're prophesying. Do you keep your clothes on or off when that happens? If on, I think you should reconsider."
We are talking about Saul, not me.
The actions of Saul, Isaiah and Micah were unique events. In Isaiah's case it was a warning against putting trust in the world rather than God.
Now look! You are trusting in the staff of this broken reed, Egypt, on which if a man leans, it will go into his hand and pierce it. So is Pharaoh king of Egypt to all who trust in him. 2Kings 18:21
And because the world is naked and weak before God it also cannot save us from his wrath, which in Isaiah’s time came through the Assyrians (Isaiah 20:4-6) who God used as an instrument of his wrath, and who were also subsequently punished themselves.
“Woe to Assyria, the rod of my anger and the staff in whose hand is my indignation. I will send him against an ungodly nation, and against the people of my wrath I will give him charge, to seize the prey and to tread them down like mire in the streets. However, this is not his intention (nor is the Assyrian aware that he is doing this at my bidding), neither does his mind so think and plan; but it is in his mind to destroy and cut off many nations.” Isaiah 10:5-7
The Assyrian himself says:
“By the strength of my hand I have done it, and by my wisdom, for I am prudent; also I have removed the boundaries of the people, and have robbed their treasuries; so I have put down the inhabitants like a valiant man. My hand has found like a nest the riches of the people, and as one gathers eggs that are left, I have gathered all the earth; and there was no one who moved his wing, nor opened his mouth with even a peep.” Isaiah 10:13, 14
But God says:
“Shall the axe boast itself against him who chops with it? Or shall the saw magnify itself against him who saws with it? As if a rod could wield itself against those who lift it up, or as if a staff could lift up, as if it were not wood!” Isaiah 10:15
“For yet a little while and my indignation against you [Israel] shall be accomplished, and my anger shall be directed to destruction [of the Assyrian].” Isaiah 10:25
The book of Micah is a prophesy by Christ, the Lord of hosts, through the prophet Micah about Himself (Micah 1:2-3) which includes his extreme grief (v.8) at the people’s sins/crimes and idolatry.
Fri Aug 09, 11:00:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
The book of Micah sounds to me like it was written by someone on drugs.
1:8 Therefore I will wail and howl, I will go stripped and naked: I will make a wailing like the dragons, and mourning as the owls.
There's that nakedness again. Was he prophesying while wailing like a dragon? No wonder no one took him seriously.
I'd better leave bible reading to the professionals! :lol:
Steve Weeks
Sat Aug 10, 07:09:00 AM 2013
bob said...
"The book of Micah sounds to me like it was written by someone on drugs."
That is understandable, for the following reason.
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1Corinthians 2:14
Sat Aug 10, 09:05:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
Well, I guess that makes me a natural man! :-)
Steve Weeks, NM
Sun Aug 11, 05:01:00 AM 2013
bob said...
If by 'natural man' you mean that part of a man which can only relate to worldly matters, or one who believes that the totality of life consists only of the physical/material universe, and that there is no spiritual component to life, then I would agree.
Sun Aug 11, 07:32:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
@Bob:
If by "spiritual component of life" you mean "that for which there is no evidence", then we are on the same wavelength. And, yes, come to think of it, the physical/material universe *is* all there is. It doesn't mean I don't have transcendent experiences such as joy, love, sadness... the whole range of emotions. But I accept that these are manifestations of highly evolved chemical reactions in my brain.
So I guess I'm a "natural man" any way you look at it. :-)
Cheers!
Steve Weeks
Sun Aug 11, 08:35:00 PM 2013
bob said...
No, I don't mean "that for which there is no evidence"
And what evidence do you have that,
"the physical/material universe *is* all there is" since there is no experiment that has ever spontaneously produced life from chemicals?
Sun Aug 11, 11:47:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
Simply because no experiment has ever created life from - as you put it - chemicals is *not* evidence for god. Abiogenesis is not understood at the present time, and it may never be understood since it happened billions of years ago. However, possible mechanisms by which it *could* have happened are being studied and may one day yield a plausible answer to the question.
Even if you think the existence of life is sufficient evidence for the existence of god, what makes you think it is the god of the bible? And what is your evidence that this god gives a rat's behind about you, me or anything else?
Here is my standard for evidence for these things: when an amputee has the missing limb restored to form and function by prayer *alone* under verifiable conditions.
According to Matthew 7:7 this should be possible.
Steve Weeks
Mon Aug 12, 08:32:00 AM 2013
bob said...
“Simply because no experiment has ever created life from - as you put it - chemicals is *not* evidence for god.”
There are only two options. Either life arose on its own spontaneously, or it was brought into existence by a higher intelligence/power.
continued...
“Abiogenesis is not understood at the present time, and it may never be understood, since it happened billions of years ago.”
At the present time it is understood that abiogenesis does not work. No one knows that it happened billions of years ago because no one was there to witness it.
“However, possible mechanisms by which it *could* have happened are being studied and may one day yield a plausible answer to the question.”
All the studies have increasingly shown that it is not even remotely possible, as can be shown by the following excerpts.
The DNA molecule is the most compact and efficient information storage system in the known universe. For example, the amount of information that could be stored in a single pinhead of DNA would be equivalent to a pile of paperback novels 240 times as high as the distance from the earth to the moon, or 100 million times more information than a 40 gigabyte hard drive could hold on your computer. Even if we could explain the creation of complex coded information by chance, there would be another problem. We would need at the same time to create a mechanism capable of reading and using this coded information; otherwise, the information alone is useless. A fully functional system for writing, reading, and using information is required. This is an example of “irreducible complexity.” That is, to be fully functional, the writing mechanism, the reading mechanism, and the mechanism for using the information must all be present at the very first instance it appears. If one of these components is missing, the system won’t work. Since life is built on a hierarchy of such “irreducibly complex” machines, the idea that natural processes could have made mere chemicals into living systems is untenable. [Gary Bates, Alien Intrusion – UFO’s and the Evolution Connection, page 119. An expose of the UFO phenomena]
“…Thousands of man-years of research as well as unprecedented technological developments were required to produce a Megabit chip, but we are expected to believe that the storage principles embodied in DNA, with their much higher degree of integration, developed spontaneously in matter which was left to itself. Such a “theory” is, to say the least, absurd in the highest degree.”
“There is no known law of nature, no known process, and no known sequence of events which can cause information to originate by itself in matter… Not even the physical building blocks required for the storage of information can construct themselves.” [From: In The Beginning Was Information by Dr Werner Gitt, pages 194, 106]
And information itself is not a living entity. In and of itself it can do nothing without a will to direct it, but for something to have a will it must be living.
Since it is not a living entity, then it must have originated from a living, intelligent information giver that has a will to direct it.
To our physical eye, another person’s mind and intellect are invisible, but we know they exist because they manifest themselves through the persons’ words and creativity. So God’s invisible mind is also manifested through his word and his creation.
For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse. Romans 1:20
Tue Aug 13, 01:52:00 AM 2013
bob said...
“Even if you think the existence of life is sufficient evidence for the existence of god, what makes you think it is the god of the bible?”
The God of the Bible (his word) is the only one that properly fits human history from the beginning to now, and accurately explains the human condition.
“And what is your evidence that this god gives a rat's behind about you, me or anything else?”
The whole Bible, from beginning to end speaks of salvation for a lost world through Jesus’ (God was manifested in the flesh. 1Timothy 3:16) work on the cross.
...of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Revelation 13:8
“Here is my standard for evidence for these things: when an amputee has the missing limb restored to form and function by prayer *alone* under verifiable conditions. According to Matthew 7:7 this should be possible.”
This means while serving God. It’s not a party trick. And witnessing miracles does not guarantee a change of heart either.
Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. Matthew 11:21
The whole of creation is a miracle, but it is at the same time under the curse of sin and death because of mans rebellion towards his Creator, that is, Christ (John 1:1-14).
Tue Aug 13, 01:56:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
Bob, I see you subscribe to the "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit" school of thought.
Just show me the amputee with the limb restored by prayer. I'm waiting.
But not holding my breath.
Here's another project for you that won't take hours of cutting and pasting. I realize that *I* can't ask this imaginary deity for a favor, because I don't believe it exists. But as a true believer, *you* can ask for anyting and it will be granted. So, here's my suggestion: YOU pray for ME to believe in your god and his son. This should be no challenge at all, and it would be a really spectacular coup for the man upstairs.
I'll let you know when it happens!
Steve Weeks
Tue Aug 13, 04:10:00 AM 2013
moyletbic said...
Forget the amputee, Bob needs a leg to stand on.
Tue Aug 13, 08:15:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
Bob said: "At the present time it is understood that abiogenesis does not work. No one knows that it happened billions of years ago because no one was there to witness it."
I just want to point out the flaw in this particular argument ("no one was there to see it...").
Police detective solve crimes all the time even though no one actually "saw" it, because of *evidence* and the use of their higher faculties.
Most likely, no one saw your great-grandparents having sex... but YOU are pretty good evidence that they did. :-)
Steve Weeks
Tue Aug 13, 12:55:00 PM 2013
bob said...
"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit"
That’s a bit rich coming from an evolutionist.
"Here's another project for you that won't take hours of cutting and pasting"
About 10 minutes actually.
"But as a true believer, *you* can ask for anyting and it will be granted. So, here's my suggestion: YOU pray for ME to believe in your god and his son."
Will do.
"Police detective solve crimes all the time even though no one actually "saw" it because of *evidence*...”
The police detective also exposes false claims by exposing the *lack* of evidence for them, which is precisely how we know that evolution is not possible, but rather, it is probably the greatest mass delusion ever perpetrated in all of human history. In other words, a crime.
“...and the use of their higher faculties."
As has been shown, “higher faculties” are not the exclusive domain of the evolutionist.
"Most likely, no one saw your great-grandparents having sex... but YOU are pretty good evidence that they did. :-)"
Which equally applies to evidence for a Creator.
Tue Aug 13, 05:48:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
@bob...
"...which is precisely how we know that evolution is not possible..."
OK, I see the brick wall here: your mind. This isn't an argument any more, it's abuse... in your case, of the "self" variety. ;-)
I recommend you read a little more widely. Jerry Coyne's "Why Evolution is True" would be a good start.
Virtually *all* scientists accept that evolution has occurred and continues to occur; the evidence is overwhelming except for those who refuse to consider it. The *mechanism* by which evolution takes place, "natural selection", is the theoretical part. I, and all those other scientists, would be wide open to an alternative proposal which accounts for the abundance of evidence for natural selection. The one who proposes an alternative other than simply "goddidit" would win the Nobel Prize for sure. I notice this hasn't happened.
I realize the brick wall isn't interested in this, so I'm going to leave you to your world-view.
Meanwhile, I'll be looking for that amputee with the restored limb, and I'll certainly report when I start believing. Oh, wait... I know god has the habit of hardening peoples' hearts so he can fry 'em for eternity. Such a loving fellow.
Steve Weeks
Wed Aug 14, 06:45:00 AM 2013
bob said...
"Virtually *all* scientists accept that evolution has occurred and continues to occur; the evidence is overwhelming except for those who refuse to consider it."
It has been considered and found wanting.
"The *mechanism* by which evolution takes place, "natural selection", is the theoretical part."
Natural selection is a description of an observable process. It was thought of by creationists such as Edward Blyth 25 years before Darwin.
Natural selection (a principle recognized by creationists) is acknowledged as a part of life, but gives no support to evolution (the naturalistic origin of life and its diversity) because it generates no new genetic information, which is required to turn a microbe into a monkey.
There should be hundreds of specific examples of mutations generating new genetic information, (which is then sorted by natural selection), which increase the information in the genome, which is what evolution requires. But there is not.
Natural selection is a culling force, not a creative one.
"I, and all those other scientists, would be wide open to an alternative proposal which accounts for the abundance of evidence for natural selection."
Again, natural selection is already acknowledged by creationists as a part of life.
"I recommend you read a little more widely. Jerry Coyne's "Why Evolution is True" would be a good start."
And I would recommend:
review coyne why evolution is true-creation.com
And some books:
The Greatest Hoax On Earth? and, By Design, by Jonathan Sarfati PH.D.
And also: No Excuse, by Werner Gitt
And for some theology:
What Luther Says, by Ewald M. Plass
"Oh, wait... I know god has the habit of hardening peoples' hearts so he can fry 'em for eternity. Such a loving fellow."
That is true, loving but at times also wrathful, and with good reason.
The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2Thessalonians 2:9-12.
The previous verse refers to the rejection of God’s offer of salvation. For example, you send your only son, who you love very much, off to war to rescue some people, who you also love, at great personal risk and cost to himself and his family, but then those same people make light of it and treat it as a joke or even disbelieve it and call you a liar. Eventually this kind of disrespect would make you boil with anger despite your longsuffering, kind and patient nature.
“...so I will choose their delusions, and bring their fears on them; because when I called no one answered, when I spoke they did not hear...” Isaiah 66:4
But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those that are perishing, whose minds the god of this age [Satan] has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 2Corinthians 4:4
If we reject God, we end up with the devil by default.
Thu Aug 15, 04:34:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
Well, Bob, it looks like you have answers for everything. Except maybe the amputee business. And so far your prayers haven't had any influence on me. But, otherwise...
Be well, enjoy life and try not to hold public office. ;-)
Steve Weeks
Thu Aug 15, 07:17:00 AM 2013
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27 September 2013Brucker's ASAB -- and was Jesus the (7th generation) son of a son of a bastard?
Some of you may recall Brucker's Bad News Bears post, which was a Christian response to God's 103rd killing. It is still the only response (after nearly four years) that I've had to my challenge to Christians, though I often get general excuses which can be summarized in this way: "God can kill whomever he wants, whenever he wants, anyway that he wants, for any reason he wants."
Brucker started the Annotated Skeptic's Annotated Bible back in 2005, beginning with Genesis 1, intending, I believe, to blog through the entire Bible. And he continued for for a few years until he finally got bogged down somewhere in Second Samuel. It was a valiant attempt, and I enjoyed reading his posts (though I seldom agreed with him) and I tried to put links to his posts at the bottom of the SAB's chapters.
Well, Brucker is back at it again, this time starting with Matthew. You can find his first post here.
Brucker's posts are especially interesting to me because he often points out things that I missed before. In his second paragraph of the Matthew 1 post, for example, Brucker brings up Jesus's questionable pedigree.
Jesus, according to Mathew 1:3-5, had a seventh great grandfather (Phares) that was (from the Bible's point of view, anyway) a bastard.
(See also Luke 3:31-33)
Judas begat Phares ...
[Phares was a "bastard" to God. See Genesis 38:13-30]
[1] Esrom ...
[2] Aram ...
[3] Aminadab ...
[4] Naasson ...
[5] Salmon ...
[6] Booz ...
[7] Obed ...
[8] Jesse ....
[9] David.
And God said this in Deuteronomy 23:1:
A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
So Jesus should never have entered the congregation of the Lord -- and yet God not only let him into the congregation, he made him king over it.
It looks like another contradiction to me.
Posted by Steve Wells at 9/27/2013 02:55:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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4 comments:
Nathan said...
See Genesis 38 <----404 - File or directory not found.
Sun Sep 29, 07:05:00 AM 2013
Yark Hutprancer said...
Jesus himself was a bastard. His mother was Mary, married to Joseph, and his father was, well, biblegod who was NOT married to Mary.
Sun Sep 29, 10:41:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
@Nathan: Try again. It's all there. And pretty amusing reading it is!
Steve Weeks
Mon Sep 30, 07:24:00 AM 2013
Brucker said...
Ah, how did I miss this post? I'm always out of the loop.
As I said, if you count Phares as #1, David works out to be #10, and he's clear, but yes, as you yourself point out, Jesus was a bastard. I once was involved in an online argument due to someone calling Jesus a bastard, and I recall defending the accusation, because really, Jesus' parents (whether his father was God or Joseph) weren't married, were they? (I think the pharisees hint at this fact somewhere in the book of John.)
Mon Sep 30, 12:21:00 PM 2013
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17 September 2013SAB iPhone App is now available, and here's your chance to win a free one
You may have already heard: the long-awaited SAB iPhone App is now available! We've been working on it for over a year, and it feels good to get it out in the world. Now punk kids in churches everywhere will be quoting from their phones, asking tough questions with the scripture to back them up. Or so we hope.
Here's what it looks like on the iPhone:
We are working on an Android version, but since the Apple version took so much longer than we initially thought, we don't want to give a date yet. We'll keep you posted as it develops. And if you want to be a beta tester for the Android version, send an email to skepticapps@gmail.com and we'll add you to the list.
Also, if you want to try your luck to win a free version, head over to Hemant Mehta's Friendly Atheist blog for a chance to win one of 10 free apps. All you have to do is post your favorite out-of-context Bible verse in the comments.
Posted by Steve Wells at 9/17/2013 04:35:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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2 comments:
Brucker said...
I just got an Android Phone, are you really having an open call looking for beta testers?
Wed Sep 18, 03:56:00 PM 2013
Jason Alfred said...
That's great news, don't know much about this app. That's why I'm running an analysis over it and seems like a real good app for iPhone. Glad to know Android version is under process!! I'm looking forward to use it on my Android device.
http://bit.ly/1aFsG6a
Thu Oct 03, 10:26:00 AM 2013
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208 ways to get yourself saved
Real men pee standing up
Everybody must get stoned
Where do evil spirits come from?
What does Jesus have written on his testicles?
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Why Christian "Marriage" is Wrong
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17 September 2013SAB iPhone App is now available, and here's your chance to win a free one
You may have already heard: the long-awaited SAB iPhone App is now available! We've been working on it for over a year, and it feels good to get it out in the world. Now punk kids in churches everywhere will be quoting from their phones, asking tough questions with the scripture to back them up. Or so we hope.
Here's what it looks like on the iPhone:
We are working on an Android version, but since the Apple version took so much longer than we initially thought, we don't want to give a date yet. We'll keep you posted as it develops. And if you want to be a beta tester for the Android version, send an email to skepticapps@gmail.com and we'll add you to the list.
Also, if you want to try your luck to win a free version, head over to Hemant Mehta's Friendly Atheist blog for a chance to win one of 10 free apps. All you have to do is post your favorite out-of-context Bible verse in the comments.
Posted by Steve Wells at 9/17/2013 04:35:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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2 comments:
Brucker said...
I just got an Android Phone, are you really having an open call looking for beta testers?
Wed Sep 18, 03:56:00 PM 2013
Jason Alfred said...
That's great news, don't know much about this app. That's why I'm running an analysis over it and seems like a real good app for iPhone. Glad to know Android version is under process!! I'm looking forward to use it on my Android device.
http://bit.ly/1aFsG6a
Thu Oct 03, 10:26:00 AM 2013
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Who has killed more, Satan or God?
God's Top 50 Killings in the Bible
Where do evil spirits come from?
David, a man after God's own heart (WWDD?)
The worth of a woman: The Bible vs. the Quran
208 ways to get yourself saved
Real men pee standing up
Everybody must get stoned
Where do evil spirits come from?
What does Jesus have written on his testicles?
Which is more violent, the Bible or the Quran?
Why Christian "Marriage" is Wrong
Is it wrong to burn people to death?
The Top 50 Bible Stories for kids
Which bits of the Bible are we still to believe?
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12 September 2013Isaiah 17 and the non-prophet Muhammad
I suppose many Christians are disappointed now that Isaiah 17 is just another failed prophecy. Kerry and Putin have ruined everything for them. Now they won't be able to watch while God burns to death everyone in Damascus, with God himself lighting the fire. Oh well, I'm sure they can find another prophecy to look forward to that involves the suffering and death of millions of people. The Bible is filled with stuff like that.
But Christians aren't the only ones that have prophecies about Damascus. Here's what Muhammad said about it.
The end of the world will start with the arrival of the Dajjal, which is the Muslim version of the Anti-Christ. Muhammad (I'll just call him "Mo" from now on) knew exactly what would happen, even if he didn't know when. (He thought he might live to see it.) If the Dajjal came while Mo was still living, Mo would take care of all the Muslims.
I harbour fear in regard to you in so many other things besides the Dajjal. If he comes forth while I am among on, I shall contend with him on your behalf, but if he comes forth while I am not amongst you, a man must contend on his own behalf and Allah would take care of every Muslim on my behalf (and safeguard him against his evil).
The Dajjal will be a young man with a blind eye and twisted hair.
He (Dajjal) would be a young man with twisted, contracted hair, and a blind eye.
Here's a forensic facial composite sketch of the Dajjal.
If you see this guy coming, drop what you're doing and recite Surah 18 (The Cave).
He who amongst you would survive to see him should recite over him the opening verses of Sura Kahf (xviii.).
That will stop him, especially when you get to the part where Allah gives unbelievers a shower of molten lead to burn their faces.
We have prepared for disbelievers Fire. Its tent encloseth them. If they ask for showers, they will be showered with water like to molten lead which burneth the faces. Quran 18:29
The Dajjal will appear somewhere between Syria and Iraq. And he'll hang around for 439 days.
He would appear on the way between Syria and Iraq and would spread mischief right and left. O servant of Allah! adhere (to the path of Truth). We said: Allah's Messenger, how long would he stay on the earth? He said: For forty days, one day like a year and one day like a month and one day like a week and the rest of the days would be like your days.
He will make it rain and do other cool tricks, until one day he cuts a nice young man into two pieces and separates the two pieces by the distance between an archer and his target.
He would then call a person brimming with youth and strike him with the sword and cut him into two pieces and (make these pieces lie at a distance which is generally) between the archer and his target.
Then the Dajjal will call to the young man that he split into two pieces, and the pieces will go back together again, and the re-united young man will laugh and gleam with happiness.
He would then call (that young man) and he will come forward laughing with his face gleaming (with happiness)...
Once the split boy is back in one piece, a sweaty Jesus will descend onto the top of a mosque on the east side of Damascus, wearing two saffron robes while placing his hands on the wings of two angels.
... and it would at this very time that Allah would send Christ, son of Mary, and he will descend at the white minaret in the eastern side of Damascus wearing two garments lightly dyed with saffron and placing his hands on the wings of two Angels. When he would lower his head, there would fall beads of perspiration from his head, and when he would raise it up, beads like pearls would scatter from it.
Every non-believer who smells Jesus will die, and they will smell his breath as far as they can see.
Every non-believer who would smell the odour of his self would die and his breath would reach as far as he would be able to see.
Jesus will find and kill the Dajjal at the gate of Ludd.
He would then search for him (Dajjal) until he would catch hold of him at the gate of Ludd and would kill him.
Then Jesus will wipe the faces of the Muslims, Allah will send God and Magog to swarm down from every slope and send insects to attack people's necks, and they'll all die like they were a single person.
Then a people whom Allah had protected would come to Jesus, son of Mary, and he would wipe their faces and would inform them of their ranks in Paradise ... and then Allah would send Gog and Magog and they would swarm down from every slope ... and Allah's Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would supplicate Allah, Who would send to them insects (which would attack their necks) and in the morning they would perish like one single person.
Jesus and his companions will come down to earth (I thought they were already down there), where they won't find a single place that isn't filled with rotting bodies and putrefying stench.
Allah's Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then come down to the earth and they would not find in the earth as much space as a single span which is not filled with their putrefaction and stench.
To clean up the mess, Jesus and his companions will ask Allah to send birds with camel-like necks to carry off the stinky dead bodies.
Allah's Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then again beseech Allah, Who would send birds whose necks would be like those of camels and they would carry them and throw them where God would will.
Once things are cleaned up a bit, Allah will send a pleasant wind that will soothe people -- even under their armpits! All the Muslims will be taken care of and the surviving wicked will commit adultery like asses while waiting for the last hour to come.
Allah would send a pleasant wind which would soothe (people) even under their armpits, and would take the life of every Muslim and only the wicked would survive who would commit adultery like asses and the Last Hour would come to them.
So at least there's that to look forward to.
Top that Christians!
Posted by Steve Wells at 9/12/2013 11:00:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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4 comments:
wolfofthewhitemt said...
The USA WILL invade Syria-just hold on.
The Dems and the Repubs are one party with two names.
Thu Sep 19, 09:43:00 PM 2013
bob said...
"the non-prophet Muhammad"
You finally got something right.
Tue Oct 08, 11:56:00 PM 2013
mkMuslim85 said...
Isaiah 42
Isa 42:11 Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit; let the inhabitants of Sela sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains.
The prophecy gives 2 special places, Kedar and Sela, Kedar is the second son of Ishmael (Genesis 25:13), Sela is a mountain in Medina, and it was mentioned in hadiths, you may say that the Bible’s dictionary tells that it is Petra, well there may be more than one Sela as Seir for example:
H8165
say-eer’
Formed like H8163; rough; Seir, a mountain of Idumaea and its aboriginal occupants, also one in Palestine: – Seir.(Strong’s dictionary)
Besides according to what I know nothing happened in Petra with Jesus (Peace be upon him), and even if it was Petra, Petra is in Jordan which is a Muslim country. You may say that this verse meant that all people will be happy with the coming of Jesus, I say: Christianity in Arabia was limited in Najran in Yemen, and in the borders with the Roman country which was mostly a political alliance not a real belief, but as for the overwhelming majority of Arabs, they were not Christians, and Christians were very few, but when Islam came, all of them became Muslims, if the prophecy really meant that it would have said Rome for example or any city which is well-known to be a citadel of Christianity.
Isa 42:13 Jehovah will go forth as a mighty man; he will stir up his zeal like a man of war: he will cry, yea, he will shout aloud; he will do mightily against his enemies.
Then the prophecy tells about fighting God’s enemy which is certainly what Muhammad (Peace be upon him) did, while Jesus(Peace be upon him) didn’t fight.
Isa 42:17 They shall be turned back, they shall be utterly put to shame, that trust in graven images, that say unto molten images, Ye are our gods.
Then it tells that those who worship the idols would come into shame, Muhammad(Peace be upon him) was sent to a pagan environment, while Jesus (Peace be upon him) was sent to the Jews.
Finally the prophecy says:
Isa 42:18 Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see. Isa 42:19 Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I send? who is blind as he that is at peace with me, and blind as Jehovah’s servant?
Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was seeking God before being a prophet, as God says in the Quran:
52. And thus have We revealed to thee the Word by Our command. Thou didst not know what the Book was, nor what the faith. But We have made the revelation a light, whereby We guide such of Our servants as WE please. And, truly, thou guidest mankind to the right path, (Holy Quran 42:52)
While Jesus (Peace be upon him) was in an Israelite environment who had God’s message, and he went to the temple since he was young, so this can’t be applied on him.
http://jesus-is-muslim.net/isaiah-42/
Fri Oct 18, 02:07:00 PM 2013
Anonymous said...
The question that most of us ask now, arose before during the time of Muhammad s.a.w; preaching the words of God onto Arabia. Was Muhammad mentioned? This was the question by inhabitants of Arabia towards Jews that embraced Islam. And if we refer to the claim by past Jewish converts, they had quote verses from Isaiah 42.
In passages of Isaiah. God address His chosen servants with their names, and in the prophesied verse we see God mention clearly the prophet’s name. **Some examples of God mentioning His servant by name.
(My Servant Isaiah, My Servant Eliakim, David My Servant, Jacob My Servant, My Servant Israel, and so in Isaiah 42:1 , God specifically mention My Servant Ahmad)
In Isaiah 42:1, it is deemed not a coincidence upon seeing the writing of both אתמך (Atmc) אחמד (Ahmd). And the word before אתמך (Atmc), is עבדי (Abdi~My Servant). For indeed, it is indicating Ahmad; Abdullah (Ahmad; Servant of God).
**Not to mention אתמך (Atmc) happen to be a special term foretelling the coming of a righteous man and is used only ONCE throughout the entire Book. [could this be a copying error or an intended error?]
~~
The prophecy Isaiah (42:1–17) tells about Ahmad; ‘Servant of God’ whom will war to correct the wrongs and bringing judgement based on the law of God. He will liberate act of worshiping molten images and thus Arabia (wilderness desert, villages and cities) will glorify God since then. **As can be seen today, Arabia are worshiping,praising God and singing words of God daily. Inhabitants from all around the world gather there and voice out loud their praise to God.
And we continue reading Isaiah (42:18–25); God remind the ‘blind and deaf’ about the wrath of God towards Children of Israel, whom neglect the message brought by past Servant of God.
And not to repeat; the same mistake upon the coming of the new Servant of God
Tue Nov 26, 07:10:00 PM 2013
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How many has God killed? (Complete list and estimated total)
Islam: It's mostly about going to the bathroom
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50 reasons to be ashamed (and not a fan) of Jesus
Who has killed more, Satan or God?
God's Top 50 Killings in the Bible
Where do evil spirits come from?
David, a man after God's own heart (WWDD?)
The worth of a woman: The Bible vs. the Quran
208 ways to get yourself saved
Real men pee standing up
Everybody must get stoned
Where do evil spirits come from?
What does Jesus have written on his testicles?
Which is more violent, the Bible or the Quran?
Why Christian "Marriage" is Wrong
Is it wrong to burn people to death?
The Top 50 Bible Stories for kids
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10 September 2013New stuff coming up
We're starting a group called the SAB Inner Circle, which will be a group of 20-30 people who receive free advance copies of our upcoming books, the first news about SAB developments, and goodies like free app downloads and audiobook files.
In exchange, we are looking for feedback on the pre-publication material (so that we can improve it), and honest amazon reviews once the books are published and available to the public.
Upcoming works include:
The SAB iPhone App
Strange Flesh: The Bible's Contribution to the Homosexuality Debate
Drunk With Blood, Audiobook
The Skeptic's Annotated Book of Mormon
If we get a lot of emails requesting to join the group, preference will go to those who are involved with atheist groups, or those who have a large social media presence. Everyone who's interested should write in, though, and make your case why you think you'd be a good addition to the group.
If you are interested, please send an email to philwellsSAB *at* gmail.com. Make sure to include your mailing address in your email.
Thanks!
Posted by Philip Wells at 9/10/2013 10:48:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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3 comments:
Daryl Cobranchi said...
I'm interested. Couldn't find an email address. dcobranchi@gmail.com
Tue Sep 10, 01:59:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
Daryl: philwellsSAB *at* gmail.com
HTH.
Steve Weeks
Wed Sep 11, 07:03:00 PM 2013
findingdoubt said...
I'm interested! My email is findingdoubt@yahoo.com and my new blog is www.findingdoubt.com.
Fri Sep 13, 04:34:00 AM 2013
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A biased sample
A Challenge to Christians
How many has God killed? (Complete list and estimated total)
Islam: It's mostly about going to the bathroom
Blogging the Book of Mormon
50 reasons to be ashamed (and not a fan) of Jesus
Who has killed more, Satan or God?
God's Top 50 Killings in the Bible
Where do evil spirits come from?
David, a man after God's own heart (WWDD?)
The worth of a woman: The Bible vs. the Quran
208 ways to get yourself saved
Real men pee standing up
Everybody must get stoned
Where do evil spirits come from?
What does Jesus have written on his testicles?
Which is more violent, the Bible or the Quran?
Why Christian "Marriage" is Wrong
Is it wrong to burn people to death?
The Top 50 Bible Stories for kids
Which bits of the Bible are we still to believe?
Blog Archive
Blog Archive April (8) March (5) February (12) January (13) December (7) November (11) October (6) September (6) August (12) July (11) June (4) May (11) April (4) March (6) February (6) January (10) December (9) November (13) October (14) September (10) August (5) July (9) June (7) May (10) April (12) March (12) February (5) January (3) December (2) November (6) October (5) September (13) August (6) July (4) June (6) May (7) April (13) March (10) February (4) January (8) December (8) November (8) October (11) September (6) August (12) July (8) June (21) May (8) April (13) March (28) February (36) January (17) December (11) November (11) October (29) September (14) August (9) July (17) June (9) May (6) April (7) March (9) February (5) January (11) December (2) November (3) October (5) September (8) August (6) July (4) June (8) May (8) April (11) March (8) February (3) January (3) December (4) November (3) October (5) September (1) August (1) July (2) June (2) May (1) April (2) March (2) February (4) January (6) December (6) November (11) October (9) September (8) August (12) July (15) June (16)
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05 September 2013The Burden of Damascus: God will burn the city of his joy so that Jesus can return (or something like that)
As you've probably noticed by now, Christians are excited about Isaiah 17:1. Prophecy is being fulfilled right before their very eyes!
Here's what all the excitement is about:
The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap. Isaiah 17:1
Not since the BP oil spill have Christians had such fun with a looming disaster. God has inspired Barack Obama to attack Syria, which (they hope and pray) will result in the complete destruction of Damascus.
Yes, God is using Obama to destroy Damascus -- the city of praise and the city of God's joy. (The city of God's joy is not Jerusalem, Mecca, Rome, or Salt Lake City. It's Damascus.)
Damascus ... the city of praise ... the city of my joy! Jeremiah 49:24-25
God will destroy his favorite city with fire, and he will light the fire himself.
... Her young men shall fall in her streets, and all the men of war shall be cut off in that day, saith the LORD of hosts. And I will kindle a fire in the wall of Damascus. Jeremiah 49:26-27
And why is God going to destroy Damascus? Well, partly, I guess, to fulfill the prophecy in the Bible. He's been embarrassed by failed prophecy ever since Jesus told his followers that he'd return while they were still alive. So it's worth it to God to burn to death 1.7 million people in order to get at least one prophecy properly fulfilled.
But there's another reason, too. It turns out that God can't let Jesus return until he destroys Damascus by fire. I'm not sure how he figures that, but believers say that it is so.
It's right there in the Bible somewhere.
Posted by Steve Wells at 9/05/2013 10:22:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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27 comments:
GMpilot said...
I think it's God planning revenge.
The Syrians once called him a hillbilly god (1 Kings 20:28), and he's held a grudge against them ever since.
Fri Sep 06, 09:54:00 AM 2013
bob said...
"since Jesus told his followers that he'd return while they were still alive."
When Jesus says "this generation" he means 'sinful generation' or sinful fallen mankind as a whole.
Fri Sep 06, 03:53:00 PM 2013
Sabio Lantz said...
Wow, thanks for the update -- I wasn't aware of this crap. Thanks for keeping your pulse on the stupidity and letting us know.
Fri Sep 06, 04:02:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
When Jesus says "this generation" he means 'sinful generation' or sinful fallen mankind as a whole.
Gosh, thanks, bob, for clarifying that for Jesus! What would he do without you?
Good thing he has you to clear up all the stupid shit he said. When he said "this generation" he didn't mean "this generation." He meant whatever bob says that he meant. Fallen mankind as a whole, a whole lot of of people that will live a couple thousand years later, whatever bob wants it to mean that's what Jesus meant.
Fri Sep 06, 04:59:00 PM 2013
bob said...
“Wow, thanks for the update -- I wasn't aware of this crap. Thanks for keeping your pulse on the stupidity and letting us know.”
“Gosh, thanks, bob, for clarifying that for Jesus! What would he do without you?”
“Good thing he has you to clear up all the stupid shit he said. When he said "this generation" he didn't mean "this generation." He meant whatever bob says that he meant. Fallen mankind as a whole, a whole lot of of people that will live a couple thousand years later, whatever bob wants it to mean that's what Jesus meant.”
It’s actually what the rest of Scripture says that it means.
The return of Christ (Matthew 25:31):
“Behold, I am coming quickly!” Revelation 22:7, 12, 20 [70 A.D.]
Many have pointed out that 2000 years is not ‘quickly’; but they have not taken into account that when we die our spirits merely fall asleep...
Now all wept and mourned for her; but he [Jesus] said, “Do not weep; she is not dead, but sleeping.” Luke 8:52-56
...until he returns to wake us up (there being some exceptions to this, e.g. Moses and Elijah, who are not sleeping [Mark 9:4])
“Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.” John 11:11
“Do not marvel at this: for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear his voice and come forth – those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of condemnation.” John 5:28, 29
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2
So it is the same as when we normally fall into a deep sleep and then wake up later only to realize that we have been asleep for hours with no awareness or memory of it. When we wake up, it seems as if we only just fell asleep moments before.
As far as we are concerned, whether we are still alive or have died and are ‘asleep’, the return of Christ is near. Even if it should take another 2000 years (…that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2Peter 3:8) it still makes no difference to us personally. All we need to do while we are alive is to believe (John 3:16) and stay faithful until we die, and then we are home and hosed (The Lord is not slack concerning his promise. 2Peter 3:9).
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep... For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout... and the dead in Christ will arise first. 1Thessalonians 4:13-18
Those who say that the Bible is false on account of the prophesy of Christ’s return being false, are in a prophesy of their own:
Knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, “Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 2Peter 3:1-9
Sat Sep 07, 01:19:00 AM 2013
Unknown said...
@Bob - You keep using the word "knowing" as if it's synonymous with "real life", "factual", or "even likely".
"Many have pointed out that" ...followed by your garbage just shows how, if you believe all the bullshit (that still hasn't come true) in the Bible, you'll believe anything.
Just before you die, remember all the time you've wasted studying bullshit, then go, leave this world with one less mystic, one less liar.
Sat Sep 07, 02:22:00 PM 2013
bob said...
Unknown,
What you do or don't believe is irrelevant. I believe it and you don't, we already know that. If you were paying attention you would see that the argument is not about who believes what, but rather it's about what the Bible is actually saying, that is, the actual intended meaning of Scripture.
You say,
"You keep using the word "knowing" as if it's synonymous with "real life", "factual", or "even likely".
The word 'knowing' was only used once and it was part of a quoted verse i.e. "Knowing this first:"
Sun Sep 08, 12:51:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
“Behold, I am coming quickly!”
I thought that was Onan having sex with his dead brother's wife.
"It’s actually what the rest of Scripture says that it means."
And yet we have to have this interpreted and explained to us. God may be omnipotent and omniscient, but he's a piss-poor communicator. He could have telepathically delivered his all-important message, in language understandable to everyone, which would have been much more fair and equitable than telling a bunch of illiterate camel herders and expecting everyone else to figure it out. I guess after the Babel incident, he couldn't do that without appearing capricious.
Steve Weeks
Mon Sep 09, 05:14:00 PM 2013
bob said...
“Behold, I am coming quickly!”
I thought that was Onan having sex with his dead brother's wife.
No, that just shows that you are not even trying.
“And yet we have to have this interpreted and explained to us.”
The overall basic message is that all of mankind is under the curse of sin and death.
The result of the first man’s capitulation to unbelief:
“…but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Genesis 2:17.
This death, inherited by all, is manifested as spiritual blindness; and physically, from the day we are born we shall surely die.
For all our days have passed away in your wrath; we finish our years as a sigh. The days of our lives are seventy years; and if by reason of strength they are eighty years, yet their boast is only labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away. Psalm 90:9, 10.
Death is a disease or plague which infected the whole creation. That’s the bad news. The good news is that God has defeated sin and death on our behalf and for the sake of his glory and name which we have defiled with our sins/crimes.
This is the simple foundation to understanding the whole story, the central thread, from Genesis to Revelation.
“God may be omnipotent and omniscient, but he's a piss-poor communicator.”
He communicates perfectly, but our rebellious, corrupted, damaged-by-sin, blinded natures make us very poor listeners and because we always think we know better.
It is very difficult even for God to communicate with us because of our stubborn, “stiff-necked” rebellious natures. What can he do if people do not want to listen?
But if we are genuine about understanding the message we will find the answers i.e. “Seek and you shall find.” Also, the fact that he sacrificed himself in our place on the cross is a simple enough message to understand so there is really no excuse for not ‘getting it’.
“He could have telepathically delivered his all-important message, in language understandable to everyone, which would have been much more fair and equitable than telling a bunch of illiterate camel herders and expecting everyone else to figure it out.”
If “illiterate camel herders” could understand the message, then why are you having such trouble?
“I guess after the Babel incident, he couldn't do that without appearing capricious.”
That’s the atheist bad interpretation/dodgy excuse. A God who is capricious would not lay down his life for the sins of the world.
Tue Sep 10, 01:25:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
"It is very difficult even for God to communicate with us because of our stubborn, “stiff-necked” rebellious natures. What can he do if people do not want to listen?"
Oh, the poor dear. I guess he's not all-powerful then. ;-)
"A God who is capricious would not lay down his life for the sins of the world."
Well, sure he could; that would fit the definition of "capricious" quite nicely. Especially since the results weren't what he imagined. Oops... guess he's not all-knowing either. ^_^
Steve Weeks
Wed Sep 11, 03:29:00 PM 2013
bob said...
“Oh, the poor dear. I guess he's not all-powerful then. ;-)”
If He made everything from nothing then He is all-powerful. But He won’t force people to listen.
“Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him and dine with him, and he with me.” Revelation 3:20
“If anyone hears my voice” meaning if they respond.
“Well, sure he could; that would fit the definition of "capricious" quite nicely. Especially since the results weren't what he imagined. Oops... guess he's not all-knowing either. ^_^”
And what results might they be?
Wed Sep 11, 11:11:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
"And what results might they be?"
Oh, I don't know... maybe the behavior of the people that led the creator to destroy almost all of his creation. "Tarring" the world with a rather broad brush; undoubtedly killing millions of innocent people (children and unborn babies, at least). That would be "capricious". But the god of the bible loves him a mess of violence. And so do the people who made him up.
Steve Weeks
Thu Sep 12, 11:55:00 AM 2013
bob said...
Oh, I don't know... maybe the behavior of the people that led the creator to destroy almost all of his creation. "Tarring" the world with a rather broad brush; undoubtedly killing millions of innocent people (children and unborn babies, at least).””
Why is the behaviour of the people God’s fault since he originally made them good?
Truly, this I have found: That God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes. Ecclesiastes 7:29
It was the people themselves who decided to behave in such a way that brought God’s judgement down on their own heads and after much warning. It is the same as any good father, who, after warning his children often enough eventually has to keep his promise and bring out the big stick in order to keep total chaos from getting the upper hand.
The events concerning Noah’s flood and Sodom and Gomorrah, the Canaanites and other events described in the Bible prompt many to accuse God of being a murderer and a hypocrite. But there is a vast difference between the murder of an innocent and the execution of a criminal.
The events relate to a Righteous Judge executing judgement on criminals for often extreme criminal behaviour and after much warning.
All the infants and children that were killed were spared the inevitable involvement in their parent’s sins and consequent eternal ruin. In this respect God’s judgment was also merciful.
The inherited sin that all children are born with (no one has to teach children to lie and steal; it comes naturally to them) being covered by Christ’s work on the cross, which covers all of human history.
...of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Revelation 13:8.
Another point that can be made for the reason for God’s judgement was to prevent more children being born into a society and a life that would end up destroying them.
For example, a God who did not judge Canaanite evil would not be a God of mercy, love and compassion (the Canaanites’ bag of sins/crimes being full, with, among many other things, frequent child sacrifice – idolatry at its worst).
“That would be "capricious".
That you consider him to be “capricious” is derived from your own blind, distorted, unintelligible view of Scripture.
“But the god of the bible loves him a mess of violence.”
Eventually, as a righteous holy Judge, he has no choice but to back up his threats of judgement against sin and crime.
But, as Luther puts it,
“God’s mercy is the more abundantly exercised because it is his very nature, while wrath is really foreign to him. Obliged to do so by the wickedness of men, God does exercise wrath, although it is against his nature to do so.”
...that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act. Isaiah 28:21
...but is longsuffering towards us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2Peter 3:9
Fri Sep 13, 02:38:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
Well, that is the best job of making up BS to defend your imaginary friend and his ghost-written book that I have ever seen.
I especially liked this bit:
"Another point that can be made for the reason for God’s judgement was to prevent more children being born into a society and a life that would end up destroying them."
If you have children, and you can say that it would be OK for them to be killed for this (or any "god-approved") reason, then you are a truly disturbed individual.
Steve Weeks
Fri Sep 13, 07:29:00 AM 2013
bob said...
"Well, that is the best job of making up BS to defend your imaginary friend and his ghost-written book that I have ever seen.
I especially liked this bit:"
'Another point that can be made for the reason for God’s judgement was to prevent more children being born into a society and a life that would end up destroying them.'
“If you have children, and you can say that it would be OK for them to be killed for this (or any "god-approved") reason, then you are a truly disturbed individual.”
My statement says “to prevent more children being born into a society...”
They cannot be killed if they haven’t been born.
And “end up destroying them” means the society itself would ultimately be the cause of their demise through the children growing up in an environment that would either kill them (child sacrifice) or corrupt them to the point where God would have to judge them.
“...then you are a truly disturbed individual.”
Relative to what, someone like yourself who would mangle and distort the message of salvation which is able to save people from eternal damnation?
And speaking of disturbed individuals, how about the leaders of atheistic, God hating, ‘survival of the fittest’ regimes who murdered and injured more people in the last century than anyone else in the rest of history?
E.g. 77 million in communist China, 62 million in the Soviet Gulag state, 21 million non-battle killings by the Nazis, 2million killed in the Khmer Rouge killing fields.
The number of deaths in the 20th century alone due to evolution-based philosophies such as Nazism and Communism far outweigh those caused by 'religion'. And any professing Christians who murdered others were acting inconsistently with their professed faith, while Hitler and Stalin were acting consistently with theirs.
As history shows, the greatest evil does not result from people zealous for the God of the Bible. It results when people are convinced there is no God to whom they must answer.
Sat Sep 14, 04:42:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
"They cannot be killed if they haven’t been born."
You, my friend, are completely out of touch with reality.
Steve Weeks
Sat Sep 14, 06:01:00 PM 2013
Reynold said...
bob
And speaking of disturbed individuals, how about the leaders of atheistic, God hating, ‘survival of the fittest’ regimes who murdered and injured more people in the last century than anyone else in the rest of history?
E.g. 77 million in communist China, 62 million in the Soviet Gulag state, 21 million non-battle killings by the Nazis, 2million killed in the Khmer Rouge killing fields.
You've forgotten something: Remember the religous 30 years war in the german states a few hundred years ago? One third of the people got killed. ONE THIRD. How much would those be in today's terms? You see, it wasn't any moral restraint that kept the religious dictatorships of the past from killing more people than the so-called "survival of the fittest" regimes today, it was:
1) less people
2) less effective weapons.
None of the countries you complain about even came close to killing off one third of the population. This deals with your b.s. remarks below as well.
The number of deaths in the 20th century alone due to evolution-based philosophies such as Nazism and Communism far outweigh those caused by 'religion'.
"Evolution-based"? You need to learn something about history.
And any professing Christians who murdered others were acting inconsistently with their professed faith, while Hitler and Stalin were acting consistently with theirs.
Oh? So "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" were NOT following the bible? It's actually a good thing that most xians don't follow the bible otherwise we'd still have slavery and people would still be executed for breaking OT laws.
Too bad that there are some who want that to come back:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2013/04/08/the-theocratic-ron-paul-curriculum/
Sat Sep 14, 07:20:00 PM 2013
bob said...
"You, my friend, are completely out of touch with reality."
Says the evolutionist.
Sun Sep 15, 03:08:00 AM 2013
bob said...
Reynold, hit a nerve have we? But I don’t see how anything you have put forward gets the atheistic philosophy employed by those regimes, or the regimes themselves, off the hook.
“You've forgotten something: Remember the religous 30 years war in the german states a few hundred years ago? One third of the people got killed. ONE THIRD. How much would those be in today's terms? You see, it wasn't any moral restraint that kept the religious dictatorships of the past from killing more people than the so-called "survival of the fittest" regimes today, it was:
1) less people
2) less effective weapons.
None of the countries you complain about even came close to killing off one third of the population. This deals with your b.s. remarks below as well.”
Over a third of the Khmers were killed, more like 3 million
“The worst genocide as a percentage of a nation’s total population happened in Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge. According to Guinness, ‘More than one third of the 8 million Khmers were killed between 17 Apr 1975 and January 1979.’”
"Evolution-based"? You need to ‘learn something’ about ‘history’.”
The arguments of both articles and others like it are dealt with in: Hitler And The Nazi Darwinian Worldview, by Jerry Bergman.
“Oh? So "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" were NOT following the bible?”
This is simply a warning. It does not say that any witches were killed.
“It's actually a good thing that most xians don't follow the bible otherwise we'd still have slavery and people would still be executed for breaking OT laws.”
More atheist ignorance.
The Bible is criticized for allowing slavery, and for not condemning it. At best, it’s seen to be a reflection of the morals of its time, at worst, actively evil. But it is a mistake to view the institution allowed in the Bible as equivalent to the slavery of Africans in American history. The slavery in the Bible is more like a form of indentured servitude. Such an arrangement would allow a poor man to survive. While not ideal, in an era before government welfare programs, slavery would be preferable to death, especially when some forms were more equivalent to modern-day employment than what we think of as slavery.
We also see the rank hypocrisy of atheistic attacks on the Bible. Slavery was an evil that occurred on all inhabited continents, and all races have practised it and been its victims (the word comes from a heavily enslaved “white” race, the Slavs). It was finally abolished only by evangelical Christians in the West using explicit biblical reasoning (see Anti-slavery activist William Wilberforce: Christian hero). Yet who do the antitheists single out for the evil of slavery? The Christian West!
Atrocity lists in the Bible are not so much a product of bad hermeneutical skills as a complete lack of knowledge about the social context of the passage, and even basic reading skills. While this article only covered a sampling of the most common “biblical atrocities”, this serves to show that the arguments of those who accuse God of moral depravity based on episodes from Scripture unravel upon closer examination. [from: Evil Bible fallacies/creation.com]
Sun Sep 15, 04:24:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
"Says the evolutionist."
Well, I accept evolution as the explanation for the world as we see it, at least in terms of biologic diversity. So do virtually *all* scientists, because the evidence is so strong. Evolution (the process) is a *fact*. The "theory" part is that natural selection is the mechanism by which evolution occurs. The person who comes up with an alternative will win the Nobel Prize for sure, and surpass Darwin and Wallace in fame.
Get to work, Bob! ;-)
Steve Weeks
Sun Sep 15, 06:59:00 AM 2013
bob said...
“Well, I accept evolution as the explanation for the world as we see it, at least in terms of biologic diversity.”
That depends on what you call ‘evolution.’ When the evolutionist says, “biological diversity” they are claiming something that creationists recognise as a function of nature, that is, the inbuilt ability to adapt to various environments using information that already exists within the organism. But no new information is being created that can change a microbe into a man.
“So do virtually *all* scientists, because the evidence is so strong. Evolution (the process) is a *fact*.”
This is an equivocation in the use of the word ‘evolution’ where in one part of the argument it is used to describe the process of adaptation through natural selection, which creationists already recognized before Darwin, and then in another part of the argument it is applied to the notion that it has the power to change a germ into a German.
“The "theory" part is that natural selection is the mechanism by which evolution occurs.”
I think you will find that the “theory” part is actually due to the fact that no scientist can explain how life got started from inert chemicals. And in particular they cannot explain the origin of the vast quantities of information required for even the simplest life forms. Information itself needs to be set within a program in order to be functional and of any use which requires an information source and a programmer to install it. Obviously Blind, undirected, mindless forces cannot be the origin of ANY information, much less that which is required for even basic forms of life.
Natural selection also needs something to select against. Without information natural selection does not exist either since it is itself information based with its own program set to perform its function within the multitude of all the other programs within a cell that go into making life possible.
“The person who comes up with an alternative will win the Nobel Prize for sure, and surpass Darwin and Wallace in fame.
Get to work, Bob! ;-)”
We cannot claim credit for something that someone else has already invented, so the prize goes to God.
Sun Sep 15, 10:37:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
"I think you will find that the 'theory' part is actually due to the fact that no scientist can explain how life got started from inert chemicals."
No scientist can explain this, true, but there are hypotheses which may be amenable to testing. Even if this is *never* known, it is not evidence for divine creation. Abiogenesis is not part of Darwin's theory.
"We cannot claim credit for something that someone else has already invented, so the prize goes to God."
Just let the Nobel Committee know where to send the check! :lol:
Steve Weeks
Mon Sep 16, 06:45:00 AM 2013
bob said...
"Abiogenesis is not part of Darwin's theory."
From an article about Darwin's theory:
In Origin of Species, Darwin concentrated on the origin of the diversity of life. In a letter to botanist Joseph Hooker in 1863, Darwin lamented having pandered to public opinion in writing in Origin, of the first life form, “into which life was first breathed” (Ref 1) (as if he believed in divine creation). Yet he conceded, “It is mere rubbish thinking at present of the origin of life; one might as well think of the origin of matter.” (Ref 2, 3)
However, eight years later, consistent with his drive to explain origins entirely materialistically, he speculated:
“...if (and Oh! what a big if!) we could conceive in some warm little pond, with all sorts of ammonia and phosphoric salts, light, heat, electricity, etc., present, that a protein compound was chemically formed ready to undergo still more complex changes...” (Ref 2)
At that time scientists knew that organisms such as insects did not form spontaneously, but they continued to speculate about microbes. These seemed fairly simple—blobs of jelly—and so, many thought that they might arise spontaneously. However, the creationist scientist Louis Pasteur, a contemporary of Darwin, showed that microbes did not form spontaneously either. (Ref 4)
Today, with so much more known about the complexity of even the simplest living things, the origin of life has become an intractable problem for those who refuse to believe in creation. Cells are not mere blobs of jelly; they are incredibly complex assemblages of nano-machines that Darwin could not have conceived in the slightest way. And they are full of programs (software) that specify how to construct and operate each living cell with its thousands of nano-machines that are essential to life. Professor Paul Davies admitted:
“How did stupid atoms spontaneously write their own software...? Nobody knows … there is no known law of physics able to create information from nothing.” (Ref 5)
Daily, new discoveries add to our knowledge of the breathtaking complexity of life, making the idea of the spontaneous origin of life more and more untenable.
Antony Flew, famous hard-nosed English atheistic philosopher, abandoned atheism because of the weight of evidence from these modern discoveries. He said, “It now seems to me that the findings of more than fifty years of DNA research have provided materials for a new and enormously powerful argument to design.” (Ref 6) This research, “has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce (life), that intelligence must have been involved”. (Ref 7)
Darwin was wrong, but then he had little idea of such things.
1. Darwin, C., On the Origin of Species, 1st ed., 1959; page 484.
2. Darwin, F., The Life and Letters of Charles Darwin, Vol. II, D. Appleton & Co., New York, 1911, pp. 202–203.
3. Or as he expressed it elsewhere “our ignorance is as profound on the origin of life as on the origin of force or matter.” Darwin, C., The doctrine of heterogeny and modification of species, Athenaeum 1852:554–555, 1863.
4. Lamont, A., Louis Pasteur (1822–1895)
5. Davies, P., Life force, New Scientist 163 (2204):26–30, 1999.
6. My pilgrimage from atheism to theism: an exclusive interview with former British atheist Professor Antony Flew by Gary Habermas, Philosophia Christi, Winter 2005; .
7. Famous atheist now believes in God: One of world’s leading atheists now believes in God, more or less, based on scientific evidence, 2004, Associated Press; . Flew is a theist/deist
Mon Sep 16, 10:13:00 PM 2013
bob said...
"Just let the Nobel Committee know where to send the check! :lol:"
He will probably come and collect it Himself.
Mon Sep 16, 10:25:00 PM 2013
Iconoclast said...
Another stupid creationist, Bob, came & tried to rationalize Christianity' irrationalities & atrocities. I'll address him laconially:
1. Some atheist regimes kill peoples but that never makes atheism as a whole murderous. Many atheists are pacifists & deplore murders.
2. Moreover, there is no religion called "atheism" which advocates the murder of believers, in contrast, Judeo-Christian ideology explicitly commands the murder of pagans: ""You shall not prostrate yourself before their gods, and you shall not worship them, and you shall not follow their practices, but you shall tear them down and you shall utterly shatter their monuments." Shemot 23:24"
2 Murder is murder. Because one Christian murderer (the Holy Roman Emperor) killed fewer people, that does NOT make him less evil than an atheist murderer (Stalin) who killed more. Are people mere statistics?
Tue Sep 17, 11:51:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
"He will probably come and collect it Himself."
So I guess we're back to "Behold, I am coming quickly."
>crickets<
Steve Weeks
Tue Sep 17, 08:26:00 PM 2013
bob said...
Iconoclast,
“1. Some atheist regimes kill peoples but that never makes atheism as a whole murderous.”
For those regimes, atheism was certainly a necessary condition for removing any inhibitions (there is no God to answer to) for carrying out their plans.
“Many atheists are pacifists & deplore murders.”
I do not doubt that. Being an atheist does not automatically make someone a murderer otherwise we would all be in trouble.
But in the case of Hitler, Stalin, Mau, Pol Pot and others, they took their atheistic, Darwinian based survival of the fittest philosophy to its logical conclusion i.e. they were staunch followers of this philosophy who took the whole thing very seriously, as history shows.
As the full title of Darwin’s book says,
‘On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life’ (1859)
The following excerpt is from one of his later works.
“At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace the savage races throughout the world. At the same time anthropomorphous apes... will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilized state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the Negro or Australian and the gorilla.” Charles Darwin: The Descent of Man, 2nd edition (New York: A.L. Burt Co., 1874) p. 178
Some of the colonial policies concerning indigenous people around the world a century ago and less were based on Darwin’s ‘scientific’ opinion.
“2. Moreover, there is no religion called "atheism" which advocates the murder of believers”
Except for the above mentioned regimes which enforced atheism as the state religion, with the atheistic, all-powerful leader taking on the role of ‘supreme’ or “God” with the power over life and death.
“in contrast, Judeo-Christian ideology explicitly commands the murder of pagans:”
More ignorance. These commands are not open ended commands for all time. They specifically related to the war between the tribe of Israel and the local pagan tribes in that area at a specific time in history. And as I have already stated in a previous comment above, there is no comparison between the murder of an innocent and the execution of a criminal or group of criminals by a righteous Creator and Judge.
"You shall not prostrate yourself before their gods, and you shall not worship them, and you shall not follow their practices, but you shall tear them down and you shall utterly shatter their monuments." Shemot 23:24"
This is saying to tear down their gods/idols and shatter their monuments so as not be drawn in or seduced by them.
“2 Murder is murder.”
That is correct, and it prohibited by God Himself. “You shall not murder” Exodus 20:13
“Because one Christian murderer (the Holy Roman Emperor) killed fewer people, that does NOT make him less evil than an atheist murderer (Stalin) who killed more.”
That is also correct. But if a self-professing Christian commits murder then he is acting contrary to Christ’s teachings and commands.
Whereas, if an atheist like Stalin commits murder he is acting in accordance with Darwin’s atheistic philosophy of the ‘survival of the fittest’ or the “Preservation of Favoured Races.” That is, it is a righteous and holy work to get rid of, by whatever means, the physically and mentally impaired and/or anyone that was, by their standards, considered ‘subhuman.’
“Are people mere statistics?”
They are part of the history of what happened.
Wed Sep 18, 03:31:00 AM 2013
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02 September 2013Call me Ishi
That's what God wants you to call him. He said so in the Bible.
It shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi. Hosea 2:16
If you call him "Ishi" (hubsand), he'll make a covenant with the beasts, fowls, and creeping things.
In that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground. 2:18
Then he'll marry and get to know you.
I will betroth thee unto me for ever ... and thou shalt know the LORD. 2:19-20
On his (and your) wedding day, he (Ishi) will hear the heavens and the heavens will hear the earth. The earth will hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil. And Ishi will sow his wife (you) on the earth. (Or something like that.)
In that day, I will hear, saith the LORD, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth. And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil ... And I will sow her unto me in the earth. 2:21-23
So give it some thought. It might be a lot of fun.
Make God happy; call him "Ishi" and marry him. He'll get to know you and sow you like a field.
He'll make a deal with the animals; he'll hear the heavens, the heavens will hear the earth, and the earth will hear the corn, wine, and oil.
A good time will be had by all.
And you and Ishi will live happily together forever.
Posted by Steve Wells at 9/02/2013 01:29:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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5 comments:
Stephen said...
So god "knows" everyone (wink) but each person only knows god. This is what in math is called a "many-to-one correspondence". Doesn't this make god a polygamist? 8-O
Steve Weeks
Mon Sep 02, 05:46:00 PM 2013
Hughes said...
It might be the inspired word of an omnipotent being but god the bible's stupid.
Wed Sep 04, 05:01:00 PM 2013
bob said...
Come on Stephen, surely you are educated enough to recognise poetic/metaphorical description when you see it.
Wed Sep 04, 09:52:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
Bob: "Come on Stephen, surely you are educated enough to recognise poetic/metaphorical description when you see it."
No, it's the Word of God. I take it literally.
:lol:
Steve Weeks
Thu Sep 05, 04:07:00 AM 2013
Nisnimnin said...
Oh, Ishi...thou art such a sweet talker. What do you mean you don't want my number?
Wed Oct 16, 12:30:00 PM 2013
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31 October 2013Drunk With Blood, kindle (2nd edition) is now available
The Kindle version of the 2nd Edition is now available at Amazon.
Posted by Steve Wells at 10/31/2013 08:52:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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tube said...
Will the 2nd edition also be published on paper? Or did I miss some news message earlier on...
Wed Nov 06, 01:21:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
Yes, it's available now at Amazon. Here's a link.
Wed Nov 06, 06:24:00 PM 2013
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31 October 2013On the road with the SAB: Arkansas to Alabama
After the Reason in the Rock convention was over, Philip and I headed east through Arkansas, Mississippi, and Alabama, passing what must be the highest density of Baptist and Pentecostal churches in the entire world. As we drove we listened to the radio -- Christian radio, that is, since there was nothing else except an occasional country music station. We even got a chance to hear Harold Camping's Family Radio show. You just can't get better entertainment than that.
The hotels all had Gideon Bibles, of course, but some also included a wide assortment of Christian tracts.The titles included: "A lost soul on judgment morning", "The coming of the Lord will be soon", and "Ye must be born again".
Along Interstate 40 we passed many interesting billboards. Here's one that that we saw east of Little Rock.
I especially like the top one, which is taken from Proverbs 23:13-14.
Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
It is, after all, one of one of the 208 ways to get saved. (#110: Ask your parents to beat you with a rod)
Posted by Steve Wells at 10/31/2013 04:38:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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Stephen said...
Steve, are you holding the stick you beat Philip with? ;-)
I recently travelled through Indiana and Ohio and saw lots of those bible quotes. Examples: "Jesus is REAL" and "Hell is REAL!"
Keep on truckin'!
Steve Weeks
Thu Oct 31, 07:37:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
Actually, those weren't bible quotes... just made-up shit.
Steve Weeks
Thu Oct 31, 07:39:00 PM 2013
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30 October 2013On the road with the SAB: Moscow to Little Rock
If you've been wondering why I haven't posted much lately, it's because I'm on a crazy road trip with my son, Philip. We packed our old Prius with SABs and DWBs and headed to Arkansas to attend the 2nd annual Reason in the Rock.
There were some great speakers and presentations, which will be online later. I'll post some links when they are available.
Meanwhile, here's an interview that I did at RITR for Rachel Johnson's Pink Atheist podcast. (The interview starts at about 97:30.)
Popular Atheism Internet Radio with The Pink Atheist on BlogTalkRadio
Posted by Steve Wells at 10/30/2013 08:46:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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Stephen said...
Some very impressive names there! And judging by David Silverman's picture, being an atheist must be the Fountain of Youth!
Too bad the conference couldn't have been in Mundelein... there's a great venue there right by a beautiful lake. ;-)
Steve Weeks
Thu Oct 31, 03:25:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
LOL! I was thinking of *Herb* Silverman!
Steve Weeks
Fri Nov 01, 07:26:00 PM 2013
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18 October 2013OMGWTFBible: A loose translation
I first heard about this from a recent article in the Tablet. Comedian David Tuchman is translating the Hebrew Bible and recording it live at various venues in New York City. He invites a guest on the show to read his translation while he makes fun of it. It's great so far.
David Tuchman is Jewish (as are many of his guests) so he knows Hebrew well, and is familiar with rabbinical interpretation of the Hebrew scriptures. There's always something in each episode that I missed at the SAB. So I'm adding stuff as I listen.
My only concern is the pace. He's been doing this for a year now and he's still not through Genesis. At that rate I won't live long enough to hear him do Malachi. (If he continues at the current rate, he'll finish in 2040.)
I'd like to hear him do Malachi 2:3, for example.
Behold, I will corrupt your seed and spread dung upon your faces.
And then finish with the happy ending of the Hebrew scriptures:
...lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. Malachi 4:6
So I suggest that he pick up the pace a bit. How about weekly, or even daily?
Here's his latest episode. Enjoy!
(I should also mention that the chapters in Tuchman's bible don't match the traditional ones. Which is OK, since the chapter numbers are arbitrary anyway. But it does make it a bit hard to follow.)
Posted by Steve Wells at 10/18/2013 04:38:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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2 comments:
Stephen said...
Steve, this is hysterical! Thanks!
Steve Weeks
Mon Oct 21, 08:02:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
O Crap!
Live in New York? Why not Mundelein???
Well, I'll just have to be content to listen. :-(
BTW, I have forwarded a link to OMGWTF Bible to all my Jewish friends, and they all think it's extremely funny.
Steve Weeks
Thu Oct 24, 10:38:00 AM 2013
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Dwindling In Unbelief
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15 October 2013Eid al-Adha
Today is Eid al-Adha. You know, the day where you're supposed to kill an animal for God in honor of Abraham's willingness to kill his son.
Hundreds of millions of animals throughout the world will have their throats slit today just to make Allah happy.
It is amazing how much evil can be caused by an imaginary God.
Posted by Steve Wells at 10/15/2013 08:00:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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79 comments:
Almost a Muslimah said...
this is truly disgusting :/
Sun Nov 06, 01:52:00 AM 2011
Jason Macker said...
They're going to eat them afterwards, so it isn't "for nothing". How is killing animals for sustenance an evil?
Sun Nov 06, 02:22:00 PM 2011
Rob said...
Great photo. What I like about the Islam people and their religion is they don't try to hide the reality of their religion, even if it involves a ritual killing of animals to help feed their poor or a public beheading to kill its enemy or cutting off the hand of a thief.
It has always bothered me to see how weak Christians are in terms of religious rituals and beliefs. Example: Deut 13:6-10 says Christians are to kill family members for trying to convert one of their own to another faith. We all know how zealous Christians are at trying to convert others to their faith...it happens all the time. Try telling the court system in America that you killed your brother, sister, or parent because they were trying to convert you to another faith and the Bible instructs you so.
At least in some Islam countries, their form of tribal government and court system are in sync with their religious beliefs. Not so in America where there is separation of Church and State leading to complete dysfunctionality of both.
There needs to be much more killing in America for the Bible Says So. Praise Jesus for Family Violence.
Or, the other option is to rid America of all these religions whose Bible based instructions call for killing family members. You can't have Religion saying one thing and Government saying the exact opposite without strife.
Countries whose Religion and Government jive will eventually rule over countries whose Religion and Government are in total conflict.
Whether you are a believer in Allah or not, Islam is on the march because it jives.
Sun Nov 06, 02:37:00 PM 2011
Steve Wells said...
Jason,
A God that would tell a father to kill his son, and then reward him for being willing to do so, is an evil God. A God who would ask millions of animals to be ritualistically killed for him in a bloody, public, and painful way is an evil God.
Animals are not just killed for food on Eid al-Adha, though they are eaten afterwards. They are killed and sacrificed to Allah in honor of Abraham's willingness to kill his son. Killing animals for food may be a necessary evil; killing animals for God is simply evil.
Sun Nov 06, 02:48:00 PM 2011
Rob said...
Science has proven that consuming animal products is unhealthy to humans, so the mass slaughter of animals for consumption, through religion based events, or through daily meat processing plant activities, is pure evil if you think killing is wrong.
Sun Nov 06, 02:57:00 PM 2011
Stephen said...
If you are a meat eater, you have to accept that animals will be killed for food. However, the manner of killing may or may not be humane. See the following, which indicates that halal killing *may* permit stunning the animal, while kosher killing does not.
http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/X6909E/x6909e09.htm#b5-Religious%20or%20ritual%20slaughter%20%28Halal%20and%20Kosher%29
I am a meat eater (in moderation), but I do not support inhumane killing methods.
@ Rob:
"Science has proven that consuming animal products is unhealthy to humans..."
Where do you find the proof of this rather broadly generalized statement?
Don't get me wrong; I think the kind of ritual slaughter depicted in this thread is disgusting. If the meat I eat were prepared in this way, I would be a complete vegetarian. Actually, with the "factory farms", feed lots with their attendant pollution problems, over-use of antibiotics and other aspects of the meat production industry, I sometimes think going meatless would be a good idea. But please don't make blanket BS statements like the one I quoted.
Steve Weeks
Sun Nov 06, 05:43:00 PM 2011
fenm said...
@Rob "Science has proven that consuming animal products is unhealthy to humans"
[citation needed]
Tue Nov 08, 02:49:00 PM 2011
fenm said...
Rob: "Science has proven that consuming animal products is unhealthy to humans"
Care to link to the study that shows this?
Tue Nov 08, 02:52:00 PM 2011
Stephen said...
Look what the Dutch are doing about halal and kosher killing methods:
http://richarddawkins.net/articles/643800-halal-and-kosher-hit-by-dutch-ban
Steve Weeks
Tue Nov 08, 03:04:00 PM 2011
Rob said...
Stephen - Read the over 250 scientific studies done on the Seventh Day Adventists and make your own conclusion. Read the book "The China Study." Read up on how doctors are reversing heart disease and diabetes with plant based diets. The college book Dietitian's Guide to Vegetarian Diets (ISBN 0-7637-3241-9 which has 587 pages and 2869 references) states, and I quote, "Vegetarians have an overall cancer rate that is lower than that of the general population." Recent studies on a population of Africans was done to find out why they suffer no colon cancer. Researchers though it was high fiber diet but concluded it was the "Lack of Animal Products," that made them healthier. I have plenty of proof. How much time to you have to read it all? The more animal products you consume, the more likely it is you will suffer ill effects.
@Stephen: "If you are a meat eater, you have to accept that animals will be killed for food."
I don't have to accept anything. Not all meat eaters "Have To Accept" that animals will be killed for food. That is your blanket statement. Please don't make BS blanket statements like the one I quoted above. An animal does not have to be killed to provide meat for a meat eater. A leg from a turkey could be amputated without "killing" the animal. An animal that died from natural causes could be used as food meaning it was not killed for food.
Wed Nov 09, 07:29:00 AM 2011
skanksta said...
" Not all meat eaters "Have To Accept" that animals will be killed for food. "
Yes they do.
Until we can clone and 'grow' meat on 'animals' without a nervous system - not THAT far away, incidentally - WE DO.
Wed Nov 09, 04:18:00 PM 2011
skanksta said...
" Not all meat eaters "Have To Accept" that animals will be killed for food. "
Yes they do.
Until we can clone and 'grow' meat on 'animals' without a nervous system - not THAT far away, incidentally - WE DO.
Wed Nov 09, 04:18:00 PM 2011
Stephen said...
@ Rob...
I don't have to accept anything. Not all meat eaters "Have To Accept" that animals will be killed for food. That is your blanket statement. Please don't make BS blanket statements like the one I quoted above. An animal does not have to be killed to provide meat for a meat eater. A leg from a turkey could be amputated without "killing" the animal. An animal that died from natural causes could be used as food meaning it was not killed for food.
I get it... you're using the style of my comment to seem to argue with me. Clever.
Your idea for turkey conservation is a good one, but Thanksgiving is coming up; how will you amputate the turkey breasts we all like to eat? Legs alone won't do. Do you really want to eat animals that died of natural causes? I'll bet you eat road kill: 1) not killed for food, and 2) fresh!
But this thread is supposed to be about needless suffering in the preparation of animal products for human consumption, not whether those products are haram or otherwise not good for us. I wonder how the turkeys would feel about their legs being amputated. <_<
Steve Weeks
Wed Nov 09, 06:58:00 PM 2011
Leonardo de la Paor said...
ALMOST A MUSLIMAH.
Hold that thought!
THE AMERICAN HOLOCAUST
What is the total number of legal abortions since 1973?
Since the legalization of abortion in 1973, there have been approximately 50 million abortions performed in the United States.
Source: Guttmacher Institute, 2011, August. Facts on Induced Abortion in the United States.
How many abortions are performed in the United States each year?
According to the Guttmacher Institute, there were 1.21 million abortions performed in the United States in 2008, the most recent year for which data is available. This amounts to 3,322 abortions per day.
Source: Jones, Rachel K. and Kathryn Kooistra. "Abortion Incidence and Access to Services in the United States, 2008." Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health 43, no. 1 (2011, March): 41-50
NOW THAT'S DISGUSTING!
Fri Nov 11, 11:29:00 AM 2011
Stephen said...
@Blogger Leonardo de la Paor...
Hey, Leo,
We're not talking about abortion here. LOTS of things are disgusting, but if you want to talk about abortion, how about the fact that most conceptions end in spontaneous abortions? That makes god the biggest abortionist in the world. If you don't hold god responsible for those, how many pregnant women do you think were killed in the Flood? Now, *THAT* is disgusting!
Steve Weeks
Fri Nov 11, 07:18:00 PM 2011
Richard said...
I attended an Eid al-Adha sacrifice as a non-Muslim many years ago, held at a farm in rural America. So a couple of points:
1) The meat is used as food, much of it donated to the poor. So it's not useless killing and there are good intentions surrounding it.
2) While the style of killing (slicing the throat from edge to edge) may have been more humane than other methods used in the seventh century, today's methods are far more humane and cause brain death nearly instantly. The people doing the killing tried to minimize each animal's suffering (by petting it, for example) but like most participants were not trained butchers. The animals shook violently as they died and were in obvious pain, and some took a few seconds longer to die than my comfort levels could take.
Mon Nov 14, 12:23:00 AM 2011
Sabio Lantz said...
Today is Thanksgiving in the US of A.
Turkeys have been slaughtered by the millions for this day of thanks. Sorry, I don't have pictures.
But we will enjoy our Turkey -- once the blood and guts are cleaned and she is made presentable for the alter we call the "family table".
Thu Nov 24, 12:29:00 AM 2011
Unknown said...
I don't see a problem here. In the evolutionary struggle between organisms, I root for the vegetable kingdom anyway.
Pun Intended
Wed Dec 28, 12:18:00 AM 2011
srizals said...
Animals are not humans, so please do not make any similitude of the ritual of cutting the neck of animals with cutting the neck of humans.
Anyway, if there is any sincerity in any of us, Islamic slaughter of animals have been scientifically proven to kill animals in the quickest and painless way as possible while ensuring the meat isn't polluted with blood. As we all know, blood are for vampires, not for human consumption.
But Muslims must consider the place of slaughter in order to avoid such bloody and messy picture being used to vilify Islam.
Thank you for reading.
Sun Jan 08, 06:11:00 AM 2012
Stephen said...
Blogger srizals said...
"Animals are not humans, so please do not make any similitude of the ritual of cutting the neck of animals with cutting the neck of humans."
Actually, some animals *are* human, because all humans are animals. There's a syllogism in there somewhere.
We generally don't go around killing humans, but I think there is a great deal of similarity between killing human animals and non-human animals by slitting hteir throats. One similarity is that the dying animal has a (hopefully) few seconds of consciousness during which it feels pain and, if sentient, probably suffers. If an animal, other than human, is to be killed in this way for food, there is no good reason why it can't be stunned first. We don't kill humans this way anymore, except for the occasional psychopath or religious extremist (same thing).
Eid mubarak! ;-)
Steve Weeks
Sun Oct 28, 04:46:00 PM 2012
lovebeingamuslimah said...
A couple of things
1.) Islaam has a bunch of stuff on treating animals kindly.
For instance, a woman will be sent to Hell because she starved a cat and tied it up so it couldn't even hunt its own food.
Another women, a prostitute, will be forgiven for her sins because she gave a thirsty dog some water.
These are both related in authentic hadeeth.
2.) We cannot kill animals without a purpose/good reason (allowable in Islaam). And here, the purpose is to eventually eat them. Yes, there is a lot of other significance behind 'Eid al-Adha (such as being willing to obey God no matter what because we don't know what God knows), but we don't just kill animals for no reason.
3.)
The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said,
“Allaah has decreed kindness (or proficiency) in all things. So when you kill, kill well, and when you slaughter, slaughter well. Let one of you sharpen his blade and spare suffering to the animal he slaughters.” [Saheeh Muslim]
4.) I read that stunning animals is more painful to them than being slaughtered with a sharp knife at the neck. I would be interested to see even more studies done.
http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=articles&id=161841
Thu Jan 03, 01:55:00 PM 2013
Giri Colnat said...
International - kill - a - harmless - animal day.
Gosh! What kind of demented "tradition" is that.
I Hate Muslims. They are so savage-like.
I'm a devout Hindu, so I believe in a Supreme Being, and what I believe in, or at least what is taught, is that He is pleased by compassion to ALL living entities; no exceptions made. How could anyone be pleased by the massacre of innocent sentient beings?
Hinduism may be eccentric, and seem odd to many, but at least I doesn't promote the killing of any creature, whether for sacrifice or for food. And if so called Hindus do such things you can know for sure that they have misinterpreted their own scriptures.
True Hinduism, pure Hinduism establishes vegetarianism as compulsory, and ultimately promotes: "Simple living & High thinking.
Sun Oct 13, 07:48:00 PM 2013
dattaswami said...
For eating flesh if you kill, then it is a sin
Non-vegetarian food by it self is not a sin since the analysis of it shows that its contents are the same as exist in vegetarian food. The sin comes by killing a co-living being, which does not harm you at all. If you stop taking non-vegetarian food, killing of living beings is proportionally controlled. Do not say that you are not getting sin since you have not killed the living being directly.
Killing is the highest sin, which gives highest pain to the living being. In the next birth, the killed living being will be born as human being, you will be born as the living being and you will be killed similarly by the human being so that your soul will realize the pain and get reformed.
www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
Tue Oct 15, 07:25:00 AM 2013
dattaswami said...
You must not kill any living being for the sake of your food.
The killing is the greatest sin
You must not kill any living being for the sake of your food. God has given enough vegetable food that contains all the ingredients present in the non-vegetarian food. After all, the source of ingredients of any flesh is only vegetable kingdom only. Eating the non-vegetarian food is not a sin because same ingredients exist in both vegetarian and non-vegetarian foods. But, you have to kill a living being for the sake of non-vegetarian food. The killing is the greatest sin.
You may argue that you have not killed the living being directly. Such argument cannot stand. Since you are eating the non-vegetarian food, the living being is killed. You are responsible for its killing. Therefore, you are the principle shareholder of the sin. There is nothing wrong if you eat a living being after its natural death. In Hinduism, there is a sect of people called ‘Kapalikas’, who eat the dead living beings. Therefore, they do not acquire sin. The tsunami is always due to anger of God since you are killing the living beings present in water for food. The earthquakes are due to killing of living beings that exist on the earth. God in the form of Buddha and Mahavir preached the non-violence and severely opposed the killing of living beings.
God in some other human forms might have followed the practice of non-vegetarian food in order to join with non-vegetarian people so that, certain other higher aspects to be preached might have been taken into consideration. That does not mean that God has encouraged the killing of living beings through non-vegetarian food. He might have kept silent on this issue in order to give importance to other serious issues. God follows the ignorance of the students in order to become friendly with them. To control a running bull, you have to run along with it for some distance before controlling it.
All these are the basic concepts of nivrutti, which are the core of pravrutti. By following the ethics of pravrutti, you will avoid God becoming furious with you. Then, through nivrutti, you can please God. On one hand, you are making God furious by not following the ethics of pravrutti and how can you please God through nivrutti simultaneously?
www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
Tue Oct 15, 07:25:00 AM 2013
dattaswami said...
Woe to the Hunters!
6. As Jesus went with some of His disciples, He met a man who trained dogs to hunt other animals. And He said to the man, “Why do you do this?” And the man answered, “Because I live from this. What sort of use have these animals? These animals are weak, but the dogs are strong.” And Jesus said to him, “You lack wisdom and love. Behold, every creature that God has created has its meaning and purpose. And who can say what good there is in it or what use it is to you or to mankind?
7. And for your living, behold the fields, how they grow and are fertile, and the fruit-bearing trees and the herbs. What more do you want than what the honest work of your hands will give you? Woe to the strong who misuse their strength. Woe to the crafty who hurt the creatures of God! Woe to the hunters! For they themselves shall be hunted.”
8. And the man was very astonished and stopped training the dogs to hunt; and he taught them to save life, not to destroy it. And he embraced the teachings of Jesus and became His disciple. (Chap. 14)
Tue Oct 15, 07:27:00 AM 2013
dattaswami said...
Frees the Animals
1. And it happened one day, after Jesus had finished His speaking, that, in a place near Tiberias where there are seven wells, a young man brought Him live rabbits and doves, that He might consume them with His disciples.
2. And Jesus looked at the young man lovingly and said to him, “You have a good heart and God will enlighten you; but do you not know that in the beginning God gave man the fruits of the earth for food and by this did not make him lower than the apes, or the oxen, or the horse or the sheep, that he may kill his fellow creatures and consume their flesh and blood?
3. You believe that Moses rightfully commanded such creatures to be offered in sacrifice and consumed and so you do this in the temple; but see, One greater than Moses is here and He comes to abolish the blood sacrifices of the law and the orgies and to restore the pure offering and the bloodless sacrifice as it was in the beginning, namely, the grains and the fruits of the earth.
5. Therefore, let the creatures go free, that they may rejoice in God and bring no guilt to man.” And the young man set them free and Jesus tore apart their cages and their fetters.
6. But see, they were afraid to be taken captive once more and did not want to leave Him. But He spoke to them and sent them away and they obeyed His words and departed full of joy. (Chap. 28)
Tue Oct 15, 07:29:00 AM 2013
dattaswami said...
Non-veg
You are killing the innocent birds and animals to eat their flesh for proteins. Buddha started the revolution by opposing the killing of animals and He is the embodiment of love and kindness to animals and birds. He left the home on seeing a bird wounded by arrow. Jesus is seen with love on a lamb in His hands and this indicates the love on animals.
Once, a devotee asked Mohammed for the way to please the God. The first thing mentioned by Mohammed (Sallam) to please God was not to kill any innocent living being like bird and animal. He told that if you kill one living being it is equal to killing the entire humanity. You cannot justify the killing of animals for the purpose of eating protein-flesh because God, the capable administrator who created this humanity, already served the purpose by creating protein rich oils.
Hence, your killing of animals is without cause and is not acceptable to the concept of Mohammed. In Hindu Manusmruti, lot of stress was given to avoid the non-vegetarian food. It imposes restrictions on place and time in killing the animals and finally recommends complete restriction called as the Mahavratam. It says that the greatest justice is not to kill any living being (Ahimsaa paramodharmah…). The Veda says to kill the animal nature present in yourself but not the actual animal in yajna (Manyuh pashuh…). The tsunami in the sea and the quakes in the earth are only the anger of God in killing the life in water and the life on the land respectively. Even the modern medical education recommends the natural proteins in vegetables to be better for health than the synthesized proteins in the animal flesh. Science is the principle of nature, which indicates the will of God because nature is creation of God only.
The highest justice (Dharma) is non-violence (Ahimsa). God has given life to all living beings. What right do you have to kill and eat other beings? Now you may kill a living being or even a human being if he disturbs the peace and justice of human society. The Lord Himself killed evil people since they harmed society. However killing a living being, which does not harm you in any way, is the highest sin. God has given sufficient vegetarian food to feed everyone. Infact science proves today that non-vegetarian food is not even good for health.
www.universal-spirituality.org
Tue Oct 15, 07:29:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
Plants are living things too and as other living things they die. Without pain, nothing dies. If you really want to respect every living things, eat mud and soil. Even then you're going to kill accidentally of course millions and billions of living bacteria. Cheers.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=do-plants-think-daniel-chamovitz
Thu Oct 17, 02:20:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
@srizals:
"Without pain, nothing dies."
Not sure what you mean here. Certainly it is possible to have death without pain; that's the basis of the principle behind euthanasia. And the absence of pain does not imply the absence of death, or animals without nervous systems would be immortal.
I hope we can agree that, since the consumption of meat by humans is part of our heritage and is not likely to be (completely) eliminated anytime soon, animals being used for food should be killed as humanely as possible, and preferably without pain.
Steve Weeks
Thu Oct 17, 07:57:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
@Stephen, living organism don't just die out of fun or because it is in the total state of calmness or bliss. It's the inability of withstanding the degree of pain that a body can endure as a result of extreme deprivement of its basic needs to survive or function resulted from physical or cell destruction or malfunction. Without air, we die. The degree of pain can only be countered with the degree of patient and endurance that we humans have, for some, especially the animals, it is a matter of time. So we all have a way of making the process of death to be as quickly as possible to lessen the pain, not by eliminating it totally since it is impossible, but by making the brain subconscious if not totally unconscious when the ultimate pain is felt which resulted death. In the case relevant to animal slaughter for human consumption, without oxygen and blood needed for the brain to function properly, the pain would be lessen most likely. And that's why islamic animal slaughter ritual is as such, what more in avoiding the blood being clot in the meat without proper drainage. If you're sincere enough, perhaps you can google for the most humane slaughter an animal can get. You'll be surprised.
Thu Oct 17, 03:35:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
All that has to happen is for the animal to be stunned before its throat is cut, or whatever is done to kill it. Some religious traditions do not allow this. Kosher preparation is one such, if I'm not mistaken. Halal preparation *may* permit the animal to be stunned, so it would be more humane in my book if it is done.
Steve Weeks
Thu Oct 17, 07:54:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
Stephen, stunning an animal before cutting its throat to kill it is like a double jeopardy to me. First, an animal has to experience the intense pain of electricity running through its body and brain and made its nerves totally aware of its surrounding and condition it's facing. In my opinion, it only heightens its senses and stress it out more likely. Only by severing its blood and oxygen supply to the brain while cutting its throat in a fast, practical and sure way, without severing its head, it is saved from unnecessary suffering and a quick, sudden death. Anyway, I think that's the way people used to kill hardcore criminals in the USA. I don't think we should treat our food to be like criminals by electrifying them. Why don't you see for yourself. Stunning is not perfect Stephen. The animal has to suffer twice in a prolonged agony and made it even more aware of the danger its facing. Make it quick and clean. It would suffer much lesser, as science has proved it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V2T9I0QrL8
http://www.mustaqim.co.uk/halalstudy.htm
An excerpt from above website,
"
1. Slaughter after captive bolt stunning
A. Calves
After captive bolt stunning most severe general disturbances (waves of 1-2 Hz) occurred in the EEG, which almost with certainty eliminates a sense of pain.
B. Sheep
Similar disturbances were also seen in sheep, but besides the somewhat higher frequency there are still clearly superimposed waves. For one animal waves could be recorded after pain stimuli until after the 200th second. Apparent cramps were registered for all sheep with the exception of one animal.
2. Slaughter in the form of ritual cut
A. Calves
After the bloodletting cut loss of reaction (loss of consciousness) occurred with high probability within 10 seconds. A clear reaction to the cut could not be detected in any animal. For 7 animals a zero EEG was recorded no later than after 23 seconds. Cramps occurred in the animals regularly only after the brain currents had stopped.
B. Sheep
After the bloodletting cut loss of reaction (loss of consciousness) occurred after 10 seconds the latest. A clear reaction to the cut could not be detected in any animal. The zero line was recorded no later than 14 seconds after the cut. Cramps only occurred after the zero line had been detected and were much shorter than after captive bolt stunning."
We must decide, either we stop consuming animals and risked our livelihood and health or keep on consuming animals and killing them as humanely as possible. Not all condition in the world is the same. Some regions don't even have electricity to electrocute their living stocks. Halal slaughter is the most efficient and practical way, regardless of economic or geography factors.
Fri Oct 18, 04:11:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
Captive-bolt stunning seems to be effective if it is properly performed:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16031846
Even if cutting the animal's throat is considered acceptably humane, a slaughter-fest like the one in the posted image is disgusting, and probably quite stressful for the animals.
Steve Weeks
Sat Oct 19, 03:06:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
That probability must be verified through factual science research. Think of the tens of millions human beings, many are impoverished in poverty, many can only consume meat during this festival where the wealthy or more able society members sacrifice their money to buy expensive cows just to feed almost total strangers in their community.
I never heard of such yearly massive feast for the poor being carried out by any other community or religion for their own less fortunate community members. This sacrifice is only being done by Muslims. A cow cost around 2k to 4k of real hard earned money. Some of course would share it with six others, but you can still guess the number.
Would you spend so much money for total strangers? That is the spirit of sacrifice that is embodied in this spirit of sacrifice. And the Prophet Ibrahim a.s. had made it crystal clear as a benchmark for humanity.
The willingness to sacrifice his most beloved one to attain God's mercy and favour. It was just a test as this sacrifice of money is. He never did kill his son. No man can profess human sacrifice as the act of religion. Some did and do you know. As history has revealed to us.
Sat Oct 19, 03:45:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
There are plenty of religious and secular (yes, even atheist) organizations that provide food for the poor on a year-around basis. A once-a-year meat-fest isn't going to do much for anyone's nutritional status.
Don't even suggest that Abraham's near-sacrifice of his son was anything but madness. Imagine the emotional trauma inflicted on Isaac during the events leading up to the (supposed) cancellation of the order to kill him. Do you think any sane person would expect him to say "Oh, it's OK, dad... I know you were just following orders"? The child would be emotionally scarred for life.
Abraham's imaginary boss wasn't so kind to Jephthah (Judges 11:30-39). If he were real, he'd be a real dick.
Steve Weeks
Sat Oct 19, 08:10:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
I'm not talking about regular events of daily or monthly charities or sacrifices done by Muslims, Stephen. We are talking about massive, worldwide sacrifice of animals to feed the poor and the community for four days, not just one day of Eid, Stephen. And the Muslims have been doing it since the days of Prophet Abraham's triumph in his ultimate test, to sacrifice his first beloved son, Ishmael, not Isaac, Stephen. It was God that gave him, his son, remember?
And it is continued by Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. about 1,400 years ago till this very day, and most likely to the end of time, sacrificing cows, goats and sheep as Abraham a.s. himself did, remember? He did not sacrifice his son, so don't miss the point.
Could you name me any similar events done by any community that has been doing it as a global event, in such magnitude and time since 1,400 years ago, consistently till today? Without corporate tax exemption?
Stephen, no sane man would like to be under the likes of Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot and Chin Peng. Those who survived them are lucky just to escape emotionally traumatised. As for Ishmael, he was not an average teenager that is easily traumatised like our kids of the age of fast food and tablet games.
He lived in the days of the Assyrian, conquering godly kings, swords and gladiators. I don't think we can compare apples with oranges, Stephen.
And you're still guessing, Stephen. You're trying to assume his emotional state without any knowledge or facts. As we Muslims do know about what he said in the Koran when his father asked him about the decree,
"And [then] he said, "Indeed, I will go to [where I am ordered by] my Lord; He will guide me. (99) My Lord, grant me [a child] from among the righteous." (100) So We gave him good tidings of a forbearing boy. (101) And when he reached with him [the age of] exertion, he said, "O my son, indeed I have seen in a dream that I [must] sacrifice you, so see what you think." He said, "O my father, do as you are commanded. You will find me, if Allah wills, of the steadfast." (102)
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/37:102
"And when they had both submitted and he put him down upon his forehead, (103) We called to him, "O Abraham, (104) You have fulfilled the vision." Indeed, We thus reward the doers of good. (105) Indeed, this was the clear trial. (106) And We ransomed him with a great sacrifice, (107) And We left for him [favorable mention] among later generations: (108) "Peace upon Abraham." (109) Indeed, We thus reward the doers of good. (110) Indeed, he was of Our believing servants."
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/37:103
Now, where is your basis of comparison in saying about what Ishmael had felt himself when you yourself, were not there?
Sun Oct 20, 12:41:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
The Bible is corrupted, that's why Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. was sent to the humankind. Everyone knows it, one of them would be this man. So why would anyone believe such an act did happened. The beastly man?
http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/
Sun Oct 20, 03:33:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
What we got here is a whole lot of missing evidence.
"God gave (fill in the blank) his son(s)" (I was wrong about the name; point taken)
Evidence? I have 2 children, and I know exactly where they came from.
OK... it's 4 days, not one. Don't make me laugh. If a poor person doesn't get food on a regular basis, four days of meat-fest won't make much difference. I grant you that one of the principles of Islam is to care for the needy, which is a good thing. It's good that it's a long-standing tradition. But taking care of the less-fortunate is not the sole province of Islam. You can find it in thos eof other religions, or even those (like me) with no religion. This is because compassion is an *evolved* characteristic of humans. Even some "lower" animals have this characteristic. There is evidence for this.
How about evidence that Ishmael was not an "average" teenager? Were you there? You seem to think this is important. Your book is not "evidence", any more than the bible is evidence for a talking snake, or the book of mormon is evidence for golden plates. These are all man-made, based largely either on primitive science (excusable) or delusional thinking (dismissable).
As for my basis in speculating what Ishmael thought as he was prepared for sacrifice (not knowing it was not actually going to be consummated), we know lots about how people feel and respond in stressful situations. There are whole branches of science that deal with this. So, no, I wasn't there.
You weren't there when your great-grandparents had sex, but you are pretty convincing evidence that they did!
BTW, do you believe Muhammad flew up to heaven on a winged horse?
Steve Weeks
Sun Oct 20, 06:41:00 AM 2013
Yark Hutprancer said...
The existence of necessary killing in general is one of the many things that convinces me that this universe was NOT designed by a civilized intelligence. A universe full of necessary killing and consumption of one life form by another could only have come about through an unintelligent process. OR the creator is one sick weirdo.
Sun Oct 20, 01:37:00 PM 2013
Yark Hutprancer said...
Oh, and whether or not the killed animals were eaten for survival afterward, whatever took place that resulted in that picture with dead animals all over the ground and blood everywhere is sick and deranged. Killing things to survive is a lot different than killing things for a religious ritual, no matter what is done with the resulting killed. These religions of death need to go away.
Sun Oct 20, 01:42:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
"How about evidence that Ishmael was not an "average" teenager?", said Stephen,
Well, here it is,
My Lord, grant me [a child] from among the righteous." (100) So We gave him good tidings of a forbearing boy. (101) And when he reached with him [the age of] exertion, he said, "O my son, indeed I have seen in a dream that I [must] sacrifice you, so see what you think." He said, "O my father, do as you are commanded. You will find me, if Allah wills, of the steadfast." (102)
Sun Oct 20, 02:44:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
I was not there, but I don't think any average teenager would say like what he said when he was told that he would be sacrificed by his own father.
Stephen, when you've found a book, that was written 1,400 years ago, telling the human race that there were seven layers of earth, the stages of embryo development, that the earth was dead before it was brought to life by iron and water, ants do talk and an abundance of truth only to be proven later on 1,400 years later after such revelations, you'll know that no matter how illogical our limited mind think of it, it must be the truth because all this while a lot of things that were written before in that book were proven to be the truth in this millenia. I mean can you imagine things like this, where were our great, great grandpas, Stephen? Were we there? How did we come to be? Any logical explanation?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPL4cAw8hv0
Sun Oct 20, 03:14:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
The religion of death is unbelief, abortions and killing those who are elderly and sick. In any decent community, the sick are taken care of, in other advanced "logical" community of those who don't believe in God, they were assisted to kill themselves, millions of unborn are aborted, killed after their" logical parents" had fun. Same sex relationship which resulted death and destruction to the beautiful human beings. That's the religion of death for you. Oh, and no one is going to eat the aborted babies too, Mr. Simpson smartie pants.
Sun Oct 20, 03:20:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
Yeah, I've heard that story about how advanced the Quran is. Christian apologists do the same thing with the bible. Lots of creative interpretation there... it's easy in hindsight.
How did we get here? Evolutionary theory is the only plausible explanation. I don't expect you to agree, but a great majority of scientists do.
Non-belief ("atheism", "unbelief", etc.) is not a religion any more than not collecting stamps is a hobby. And there's no more "death" involved than your average religion. When was the last time anyone was killed in the name of atheism? Please don't go to Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot; those were political ideologies. Hitler was a catholic and Stain was seminary-trained.
I haven't aborted any babies, but three of the babies my wife and I conceived were spontaneously aborted. If your god had anything to do with that, he's lower than a dog turd. The two we raised are successful, charitable, happy... and non-believers. Go figure. :-)
Same-sex relationships or marriage has no influence on me or my marriage (over 30 years to the same woman). I don't mind other people being happy, and what consenting adults do behind closed doors is no one's business. If your imaginary peeping Tom doesn't like it, let him do something about it himself.
By the way (and this applies to any and all gods), nothing says "my god is a powerless non-entity" like religious people feeling it necessary to punish others for their imaginary "sins". Anyone stoned, crucified, burned or beheaded for whatever "crime" is a testament to god's impotence.
You never answered my question about the flying horse. This same advanced-science book of yours has the story in Surah 17:1. Is it true?
Steve Weeks
Sun Oct 20, 05:09:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
Theory of Evolution? It's a theory of man trying to make sense of his existence. Have you seen with your eyes, anything evolving around you? I mean any monkeys you know that turned into a man? Why did the orang utans stop evolving? Or at least, something popping out of nowhere? Like we did after the dead earth? Can you answer it yourself, honestly, without relying on a theory?
The Science of man only discovered about the layers of earth just recently, to name a few. The Science of man created the atomic destruction upon mankind and still looms in the horizon. Why are you so obsessed with Science that is only a knowledge that cannot explain why we're going to die being nothing like an ant after so much knowledge and achievement we've made? Aren't we much better than the ants and the pigs to be just as dead as them when the time come?
Everything in the Koran is the truth. I did answer it, you're just not willing to accept. If a 1,400 year old book consist so much truth that were only verified with all the advancement we had only recently in this couple of centuries, how can it contain any falsity? Of course I can't prove it, just as much you can't prove evolution, which is only a "theory" remember? The difference is, the abundance of truth that made the Koran reliable. Science is still evolving with our progress, an evolution of thinking that I can see and measure for sure. What's the truth of the Bible are you talking about, care to share? Is it related with embryology?
"He makes you in the wombs of your mothers in stages, one after another, in three veils of darkness." (Quran 36:6)
"The three veils of darkness" may refer to: (1) the anterior abdominal wall; (2) the uterine wall; and (3) the amniochorionic membrane (Fig. 1). Although there are other interpretations of this statement, the one presented here seems the most logical from an embryological point of view.
http://www.quranandscience.com/human/135-dr-keith-moore-confirms-embryology-in-quran.html
How do you explain it, Stephen? A lucky 1,400 year old guess?
Sun Oct 20, 08:16:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
Why are you blaming God for bad things that happen to you? Are you sure you don't have anything to do with it? Cause and effect, remember? Things don't just happen like that. What we eat, drink, do and do not do, our thoughts and emotional health all depend on us. God permits all things to happen on this earth, good or bad, it's true, as a test for all of us, but it doesn't mean He bless it or done it. It's up to us. What we give, we get back, except if there's divine intervention, of course. If we failed to take a good care of ourselves, why are we blaming Him? Could you please explain how did God aborted your babies? Did you see Him doing it? What are the Scientific explanation given by your doctors? God did it?
What about the good things that happened to you? Do you still blame them on Him? We were given all that we need to survive, prosper and be in control in lots of things. Some bad things happen as do some good things. The culprit is us.
Sun Oct 20, 08:33:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
Why do atheists reject Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot and Chin Peng as one of them. When did I mention Hitler in the list? He's a Christian. Remember the black cross of the Nazi?
Of course, nowadays, atheists are no longer threatening the world with domination and destruction directly, like they did once, but they're still doing it indirectly by forcing other countries to permit abortion, same sex marriage and so on through world bodies. Isn't that what a cult of death would always do?
How can you justify same sex relationship that science itself has proven to be dangerous and unproductive to the well being of the human being? Do you have any scientific explanation or theory to back your conscience with? Have you heard of HIV or Aids or HPV? I mean is it okay for you that these "rational and scientific" people exposed themselves and others to such fate and blaming God instead?
Sun Oct 20, 08:56:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
Stephen, you seemed to resent comeuppance towards criminals, what do you think we should do to prevent crimes and setting up examples for those criminal minds? Are these imaginary sins too?
http://listverse.com/2010/06/05/10-people-who-give-atheism-a-bad-name/
Mon Oct 21, 03:41:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
Wow... I must have touched a nerve there.
You obviously don't, or won't, or can't understand evolution, so we're done with that discussion.
And, no, I don't blame god for anything bad that happens to me because there is no god. There is a certain amount of randomness in life, and I accept it.
Remember George Carlin's 11th Commandment... "Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself".
Enjoy your life, my friend; it's the only one you have.
Flying horse... Hee hee! :-D
Steve Weeks
Mon Oct 21, 04:07:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
Well, as they say, if an atheist has the power he'll kill you, if he doesn't, he'll insult you when you got him cornered. Flying horse? Hehe... Bye Stephen, hope you'll evolve before death reaches you. Be good.
Mon Oct 21, 05:26:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
Last but not least, there was no you before your mother and father met, where were you then? Perhaps a theory in the making?
Mon Oct 21, 05:29:00 AM 2013
Nathan said...
See pictures 6, 12, 15, 16, 24, 27, and 32 from TheAtlantic: http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2013/10/eid-al-adha-2013/100608/
Tue Oct 22, 12:48:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
Thanks, Nathan. That's the way the guy in the sky likes 'em... bloody. Well, actually that's how the celebrants *think* he likes them, because that's the only way they knew how to slaughter back in the day when some clever guy made up the idea.
Steve Weeks
Tue Oct 22, 05:57:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
Thanks Nathan, it's beautiful. Muslims all over the world, different colours, same faith and all those food for all the human beings. And not a single human lives and limbs being harmed. Feeling blessed. Nice link man. :)
Wed Oct 23, 01:28:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/abortionimages/
Sorry guys, but you really have to see this. The beastman, unrepenting and being so civilised as a beastman could be. Compare them with what Nathan has shared with us. Can you differentiate the beast from the man?
Wed Oct 23, 01:35:00 AM 2013
edward19 said...
Holy Horus: The Jesus Origin Exposed; The Real Truth About Religion and Its Origins, and Annuit Coeptis Novus Ordo Seclorum
On a separate note, for Stephen Hawking’s ‘conventional afterlife is a fairy tale’ followers, I remind them of the First Law of Thermodynamics – Energy Can Not Be Created Nor Destroyed, Merely Transformed. And submit that life or a ’soul’ is essentially energy and must conform to the Laws of Energy, at least on a scientific basis. Circumstantial and coincidental evidence of energy ‘surviving’, transferring, making itself known to some, seems to support the scientific evidence. http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/2013/09/18/the-real-truth-about-religion-and-its-origins/
Wed Oct 23, 11:05:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
@ Edward19:
That reminds me of the question as to whether Hell is exothermic or endothermic:
http://astro.berkeley.edu/~gmarcy/thermal/tpteacher/jokes/hell.html
But, seriously, what is the evidence that souls exist and represent a form of energy? Any citation of a peer-reviewed scientific journal is acceptable. ;-)
Steve Weeks
Wed Oct 23, 03:16:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
http://itsnobody.wordpress.com/2012/09/07/what-is-a-reliable-scientific-experiment/
Thu Oct 24, 02:04:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
Absolutism vs Human's error
"Even at the best journals, the process is only as good as the editors and reviewers, who are people who make mistakes.
A busy reviewer may give a cursory read through a paper that superficially looks good, but miss subtle mistakes. Or they may not take the time to chase down every reference, or check all the statistics.
The process generally works, and is certainly better than having no quality control filter, but it is also no guarantee of correctness, or even the avoidance of mistakes.
Peer-reviewers also have biases. They may be prejudiced against studies that contradict their own research or their preferred beliefs. They may therefore bias the published studies in their favored direction, and may be loath to give a pass to a submission that would directly contradict something they have published. For this reasons editors often allow authors to request or recommend reviewers, or to request that certain people not be asked to be reviewers. Each journal has their own policy. Sometimes an editor will specifically use a reviewer that the authors request not be used, thinking they may be trying to avoid legitimate criticism.
The process can be quite messy, and full of politics."
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-importance-and-limitations-of-peer-review/
Peer reviewed research? Important to knowledge growth, yes, but to base your conscience and risk your faith and fate, here and in the afterlife. Well, the risk is yours. What do you have to lose? Hmm, what should I do and think next, hmm, let's refer to a peer reviewed scientific journal! Voila! Whatever happened to intuition? Any peer reviewed journal research about the non existent of God out there? Hello?
Thu Oct 24, 05:05:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
A flying horse or a Buraq?
"What we normally think of as 'life' is based on chains of carbon atoms, with a few other atoms, such as nitrogen or phosphorous. One can speculate that one might have life with some other chemical basis, such as silicon, but carbon seems the most favourable case, because it has the richest chemistry."
http://www.hawking.org.uk/life-in-the-universe.html
"Reaching out to the stars with our messages of curiosity and peace may only make it easier for an advanced alien mining operation to stake a claim on Earth. First contact would be a much better proposition if we can wait until we are on more equal terms."
Hawking compares making contact with alien species with Native Americans' first contact with Christopher Columbus - which didn't turn out brilliantly for the Native Americans.
"I imagine they might exist in massive ships... having used up all the resources from the planet below," Professor Hawking says.
Read more at http://www.tgdaily.com/space-features/49508-beware-alien-invaders-says-stephen-hawking#Ihfjb0lpr5ZRg34P.99
Is Buraq a horse that flies? Hello, Dwindlers? Anyone home? Echo, echo..
Thu Oct 24, 05:27:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
"Well, the risk is yours. What do you have to lose?"
From my perspective, any time I waste praying to or worshiping a non-existent being is lost. I've got better things to do.
"Any peer reviewed journal research about the non existent (sic) of God out there?"
As we all know, it is impossible to prove a "negative". There is no more proof of the non-existence of god than there is of the non-existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (Pesto be upon him).
Steve Weeks
Thu Oct 24, 10:11:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
Ahh, the limitation of the human beings, "it is impossible to prove a "negative"". Well, let me give you a broader peer and non peer reviewed of written and unwritten journal, acknowledged by a majority of the human beings, since the dawn of man, by the scientists, philosophers, scholars, thinkers, the layman etc.
That is, every great or not so great masterpiece is a creation and has a creator. Your chair, the one you're sitting on, does not exist by itself. It is created. That's a simple chair, With no neurons and living cells, complex mixture of the right combination of chemistry and fragile inter-related, like clock work working system. Then, you would say, a chair is not a living thing. Well, a puny man is not the God either. What is so great in creating a chair compared to the universe or a fly for that matter. That is why God is God and a man is just a man, dependent and limited.
Most theists' problems are they can't decide and believe that the Supreme being that created all this cannot be a part of this worldly or universally creation itself. The Creator cannot be a part or resemble the creations. And thus, we have Christianity that believes Jesus, a man, was the son of god or a god born in a human flesh, the Buddhist that worship Buddha, also a man and the Hindus that worship almost everything. You may say why is the confusion, since we, the Theists, all have decided that there is God, the creator of this universe. The answer is they choose to believe in their corrupted holy books. Some choose to continue to believe even though they knew corruption has been done. Some don't even bother to know or learn about their holy books. For example, the Hindus, most or some, don't even know that their God is one and unseen. For some reason, pride maybe, they have refused to acknowledge their scriptures were without proof and were corrupted since there are no system guarding their authenticity, thousand of years ago until now. The confusion and the conflict in their belief system is the manifestation of their erroneous ways in their search for the One God, the God, which is Allah.
Well, so much for the "perfect" unbelief scientific system, Stephen. Oh well, how about the aliens? Any peer reviewed scientific journal to help us think, do and decide too? Well, Pesto be upon you too, Stephen. :)
Anyway, did you know that your science originated from Islamic civilisation, Stephen? Peer reviewed journal was done and inspired by a great Muslim scientist. Do you know him? Or did you think atheists created it?
Thu Oct 24, 03:29:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
"The first, and possibly greatest Islamic scholar, was Ibn al-Haytham, best known for his wonderful work on light and vision, called 'The Book of Optics.' He developed a scientific method very similar to our own:
State an explicit problem, based upon observation and experimentation.
Test or criticize a hypothesis through experimentation.
Interpret the data and come to a conclusion, ideally using mathematics.
Publish the findings
Ibn al-Haytham, brilliantly, understood that controlled and systematic experimentation and measurement were essential to discovering new knowledge, built upon existing knowledge.
His other additions were the idea that science is a quest for ultimate truth and that one of the only ways to reach that goal was through skepticism and questioning everything.
Other Muslim scholars further contributed to this scientific method, refining it and preserving it. Al-Biruni understood that measuring instruments and human observers were prone to error and bias, so proposed that experiments needed replication, many times, before a 'common sense' average was possible.
Al-Rahwi (851 - 934) was the first scholar to use a recognizable peer review process.
In his book, Ethics of the Physician, he developed peer review process to ensure that physicians documented their procedures and lay them open for scrutiny. Other physicians would review the processes and make a decision in cases of suspected malpractice.
Abu Jābir, known as Geber (721 - 815), an Islamic scientist often referred to as the father of chemistry, was the first scholar to introduce controlled experiments, and dragged alchemy away from the world of superstition into one of empirical measurement.
Ibn Sina (Avicenna), one of the titans in the history of science, proposed that there were two ways of arriving at the first principles of science, through induction and experimentation. Only through these methods could the first principles needed for deduction be discovered
Other Islamic scholars contributed the idea of consensus in science as a means of filtering out fringe science and allowing open reviews. These contributions to the scientific method, and to the tools required to follow them, made this into an Islamic Golden Age of science.
However, with the decline in the Islamic Houses of Knowledge, the history of the scientific method passed into Europe and the Renaissance."
Read more: History of the Scientific Method - How Science Became Important
http://explorable.com/history-of-the-scientific-method
What were the atheists doing at that time, Stephen? Thinking? Creating the Gulags or the Killing Fields?
Thu Oct 24, 04:05:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
How about numbers and algebra? Did the peer reviewed atheists created them? Anyway what have the atheists contribute to mankind actually? Beside mockery, oppression, genocide, abortion, assisted suicide and risky lifestyle? The atomic bomb or the abundance of unproven theories to help us out in our daily lives maybe?
Thu Oct 24, 04:13:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
"You never did answer about the flying horse" said Stephen. Has he answered any of mine?
Thu Oct 24, 04:42:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
Can an abundance of truth of 1,400 years ago proven in our advancement today has any falsity in it? Answer them in sequence order O Scientific Atheist. Or has your brain turned into spaghetti?
Thu Oct 24, 04:47:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
"...erroneous ways in their search for the One God, the God, which is Allah."
Here's an excellent essay by H.L. Mencken:
http://nowscape.com/atheism/dead_gods.htm
It's worth a read on its own merits, but I mention it here because it includes a long list of "other" gods that have been worshipped at various times and places.
Think about why you reject these gods, and you will possibly (though probably not) come to an understanding of why I reject yours.
Cheers,
Steve Weeks
Thu Oct 24, 05:59:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
Thank you for the link, but you still have not answered my questions. Perhaps it is true what they say about atheists. They can't think for themselves.
As for your rejection, I don't have any problem with that, it's your faith and fate, not mine. If you know the size of the universe, well, your unbelief matters not to the God who has no partners. My concern is those who may follow your ways if I haven't said anything in here.
Stephen, atheism offers nothing but short meaningless happiness and self indulgence. It lacks justice, endurance, responsibility and discipline. Everyone dies and that's that. The criminals die as their victims do. Man dies as dogs do. That is why it turned violent the minute it gained political powers.
Thu Oct 24, 08:47:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
"atheism offers nothing but short meaningless happiness and self indulgence. It lacks justice, endurance, responsibility and discipline."
No, it just means "not believing in (any) god". What you or others claim it means is irrelevant.
Steve Weeks
Sat Oct 26, 05:47:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
Well, good luck to you Stephen, since you don't want to waste your time worshipping God and instead, busy yourself making fun of theists in here. I guess I better let you have fun atheistically as you know how, since it's the only way you can find gratification in.
But let say, that you are right, then I don't have anything to lose. But what if I'm right?
Worshipping God is beneficial to the human beings. For example, only Muslims fast two days in a week, voluntarily on Mondays and Thursdays. The modern days of today, find 5:2 fasting principle is the best way to stay healthy, without having to spend much money or wasting time waiting for a peer reviewed scientific journal that would not be able to keep up with all aspects of life.
"I went into it quite skeptical because I’ve looked at diets over the years and I’ve always assumed they’re rubbish. Really seriously rubbish," Mosley went on. "But the people who study in this area are really top scientists -- world-class scientists who are hugely reputable in their areas. And they were all coming at it from their areas of expertise: cancer, dementia, diabetes -- they were approaching it from different angles, but coming to the same conclusion. I found that very convincing."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/29/michael-mosley-the-fast-diet-intermittent-fasting-uk-pbs_n_2977893.html
"Fasting can help protect against brain diseases, scientists say
Claim that giving up almost all food for one or two days a week can counteract impact of Alzheimer's and Parkinson's"
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/feb/18/fasting-protect-brain-diseases-scientists
Abu Hurairah Radiyallahu ta’ala ‘anhu reported: The Messenger of Allah sallalahu ‘alahi wasallam said, “Deeds of people are presented (to Allah) on Mondays and Thursdays. So I like that my actions be presented while I am fasting.”
(Tirmidhi)
See, we Muslims are not wasting any time or anything at all by worshipping God. All that we do benefit us, not God. For He has no needs of us or this world. He is the owner of everything. Another example, we Muslims abstain from free sex and that save us from sexual malice and sufferings. Mothers don't end up killing their own unborn, repeatedly. But hey, cutting animals' throats is disgusting right?
Sun Oct 27, 01:44:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
And as for this posting,
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2012/01/islam-its-mostly-about-going-to.html
the answer is this,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2476507/How-washing-hands-makes-HAPPIER-Cleaning-boosts-confidence-washes-away-feelings-failure.html?ico=health^headlines
Sun Oct 27, 02:54:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
A new study has found that the ritual of cleaning makes us more optimistic after failure.
Dr Kai Kaspar, from the University of Cologne, examined how physical cleansing affects us after a bad event.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2476507/How-washing-hands-makes-HAPPIER-Cleaning-boosts-confidence-washes-away-feelings-failure.html#ixzz2iumKGUf6
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Sun Oct 27, 02:55:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
The earth was not as lively as it is now as we know it. 1,400 years ago, it was told in the Koran to the human race. Only now, it is making sense.
"Know that Allah gives life to the earth after its lifelessness. We have made clear to you the signs; perhaps you will understand. (17)"
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/57:17
And watch this documentary. And you'll be surprised how dead was the earth then compared to the now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsn3wpVAcjk
Sun Oct 27, 08:00:00 AM 2013
edwardmd said...
Thanks for the article and your efforts. For more on government fascist gods: Holy Horus: The Jesus Origin Exposed; The Real Truth About Religion and Its Origins, and Annuit Coeptis Novus Ordo Seclorum http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/2013/09/18/the-real-truth-about-religion-and-its-origins/
“Manly P. Hall, a 33rd Degree Freemason and prolific author, described in his pamphlet “Masonic Orders of Fraternity” an “Invisible Empire” that has been silently working for centuries towards social change. It periodically became visible throughout History, through different organizations who bore different names. According to him, these groups have a great yet silent impact on society, even transforming the educational system to form future generations.” http://vigilantcitizen.com/hidden-knowledge/the-order-of-the-illuminati/
Thu Oct 31, 06:07:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
“Mohammad never assigned himself a status more than a common man and a messenger of God. People had faith in him when he was surrounded by poverty and adversity and trusted him while he was the ruler of a great Empire. He was a man of spotless
character who always had confidence in himself and in God's help. No aspect of his life remained hidden nor was his death
a mysterious event.”
― M.H. Hyndman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bO363h0qh8#t=255
Fri Nov 15, 01:35:00 AM 2013
Steve Wells said...
Yeah, srizals. Muhammad (pb&jbup) was the most modest man who ever lived, as these quotes from the Ash-Shifa clearly show.
"The Prophet … addressed the people, saying, 'O gathering of believers! Allah … has preferred me greatly over you, and He has preferred my wives greatly over yours.'" pp.102-3
"The Prophet … spoke of his honored position saying, 'I am the most honored of the children of Adam with my Lord, and this is no boast.'" p.96
"The Prophet … said, 'I am the noblest of the children of Adam before my Lord, and this is no boast.'" p.121
"All the prophets from the time of Adam will come under my banner, and I will be the first for whom the earth splits open, and this is no boast." p.121
Fri Nov 15, 06:56:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
He stated the fact, and emphasised "this is no boast". Can't you understand the simplest of language?
Now let see, why is the difference shall we, in order to understand the context,
Mālik ibn Dinār radi Allahu ‘anhu (may Allah bless Him) said: “The Prophet ﷺ never got full from bread or meat unless he was eating with people.”2
Al-Nuʿmān ibn Bashīr (ra) said: “Do you not have all the food and drink that you want? Verily I saw your prophet ﷺ and he could not even find enough low-quality dates to fill his stomach.”
ʿĀʾisha (ra) said: “Verily, we, the family of Muḥammad ﷺ, would go an entire month without lighting a fire. It was only dates and water.”
Anas (ra) said: “The Prophet ﷺ never had bread and meat together for lunch and dinner, unless he was eating with people.”
Anas (ra) said: “One time the Prophet ﷺ was brought dates and I saw him eating them while leaning on something because of the severity of his hunger.”3
http://www.suhaibwebb.com/personaldvlpt/character/the-prophet-and-food/
Now tell me, do you know of anyone that could do this while he has all the influence and power on his community and no enemies overpowering him? And I have not yet started with his other aspect of life.
Fri Nov 15, 10:07:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
Yeah srizals. And "when the Prophet ... relieved himself ... the earth would split open and swallow his discharge and there remained a fragrant aroma." Ash-shifa, p.47
Sat Nov 16, 06:43:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
Well, if you're hungry and fasting most of the time for your entire life, living purely on water and a few dates regularly, day and night, days and nights, perhaps you can shit like that too, Steve. But I bet, you stink. ;)
Sun Nov 17, 06:08:00 PM 2013
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05 October 2013A strategy for Christians who object to same-sex weddings
It's hard to be a Christian these days. Everyone makes fun of you and sometimes you're forced to do things that are contrary to your beliefs.
For example, say you have a business that caters to weddings. Since such a service is open to the public, civil rights legislation requires you to make that service available everyone, without discriminating on the basis of race, color, religion, or national origin. And as more states are recognize same-sex marriages and anti-discrimination laws are expanded to include LGBT people, Christians may be forced to provide services to marriages that they disapprove of.
So what's a Christian to do in such a situation?
Well, Tim Bayly has a strategy for you. Here's what he says at his blog.
Of course, I will provide my stuff for your wedding. I serve, and am required to serve, everyone, whether or not I approve of what he is doing. However, you do understand that if I am at your so-called 'wedding,' I will consider it my duty to call attention to God's view of what you are doing. I will consider it my obligation to warn the guests of the danger they are running and of the harm all of you are doing to your own lives as God observes them. So, I will be distributing literature that explains all this.
And I thank you for the opportunity to reach people who otherwise might never hear this message that I believe they desperately need to hear.
That's right. Mr. Bayly suggests that you agree to perform the service and then, when you arrive at the wedding, disrupt it by passing out anti-gay literature and making anti-gay sermons. Read the Bible to the wedding guests and display a "God Hates Fags" banner. Picture a same-sex wedding catered by Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church and then go and do likewise.
Which is an interesting idea. But it's not a very biblical one. Here's what I suggested in a comment to his post.
Why not agree to provide the service and then, when you arrive at the wedding, stone the happy couple to death in accordance with Leviticus 20:13? ("If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.")
To which Mr. Bayly replied:
Because, Mr. Wells, God has delegated the sword to the civil magistrate, and currently he's occupied using that sword to protect those paid to murder 1,350,000 little babies in our nation each year.
I responded with this comment, my last at his blog, apparently.
Sounds like an excuse to me, Tim.
God commands believers to kill non-celibate male homosexuals in Leviticus 20:13. No civil magistrate is mentioned or required.
But OK. I understand. You think God went just a bit too far in Leviticus 20:13. You're not willing to obey him here. Good for you.
You'd like someone else to do it for you. The civil magistrate, local police, your church governing body, whoever. Anyone but you. You'd like the blood of homosexuals to "be upon them," but you don't want the blood on your hands.
[NOTE FROM TB: From outside sources, I've learned Mr. Wells is a public mocker of the Triune God and His Word, so he won't be commenting here, again.]
It's hard to find a Christian who is willing to obey God's clear command in Leviticus 20:13. [Although there was one commenter (Bryan) who said this: "I certainly wouldn't mind stoning a homosexual to death...."]
Only Muslims (and Bryan) are willing to obey God on that one.
Posted by Steve Wells at 10/05/2013 10:24:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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18 comments:
GMpilot said...
In response to that same verse, I've been told that Jesus rescinded that order, yet no one has actually shown me the verse that says so.
One might also ask why such Christians aren't picketing Red Lobster© as well, as I understand God hasn't removed crustaceans from the prohibited list.
Sun Oct 06, 12:01:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
"[NOTE FROM TB: From outside sources, I've learned Mr. Wells is a public mocker of the Triune God and His Word, so he won't be commenting here, again.]"
Wow, Steve, you got ratted out by the Triune God ("TG") himself!
@GMpilot: Not only did Jesus *not* rescind the order, he confirmed it! See Mark 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Hat Tip to the Skeptic's Annotated Bible for making it so easy to find!
Steve Weeks
Sun Oct 06, 07:57:00 AM 2013
Steve Wells said...
Yeah, Steve. I'm a public mocker of the three-headed god. So I guess I deserve to be banned - or stoned, or burned to death. I'm not sure what the proper biblical punishment is for god mockers. I'd ask Tim, but he won't talk to me anymore.
Sun Oct 06, 09:07:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
Well, if TG (let's call him "Tiggy") doesn't have the balls to exact his own retribution, he deserves to be mocked.
Steve Weeks
Sun Oct 06, 10:58:00 AM 2013
Matt Cantrell said...
Doesn't this all come down to controlling others? I mean, getting hired to perform a function and then sabotaging that function? (if you break it down to its roots, that's all it is). Seems a little anti-business like. I would think that this "strategy" would invite litigation. The author talks about "free speech rights" and the courts not touching that, but, that all goes out the window when you're hired to perform a function by a private party. There are no free speech rights in private contracts usually, and if they tried to include it in the contract,e.g we're gonna hand out anti-whatever your wedding is about during your wedding, then it would lead right back to discrimination. Who would agree to that? Am I preaching to the choir? A little off the subject, but still relevant....
Mon Oct 07, 01:53:00 PM 2013
bob said...
Stephen, you say,
“Not only did Jesus *not* rescind the order, he confirmed it!...”
But Jesus said,
“He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” John 8:7
The conscience of all the woman’s accusers caused them to leave, but the conscience of the oldest prodded them into leaving first, because their tally of sins/crimes was higher since they had been alive for longer.
You say,
“...See [Matthew] 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.”
“Fulfil the law” means to be punished for our sins/crimes. But here Christ is saying that He Himself will fulfil the law by being punished in our place for our sins/crimes.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 1Corinthians 15:22
This is My blood of the new testament, which is shed for many. Mark 14:24
Without Jesus’ sacrifice not one person could be saved from hell.
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23
But we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousness’s are like filthy rags. Isaiah 64:6
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1John 1:8.
Tue Oct 08, 03:00:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
Well, Bob, we could spend a lot of time cherry-picking the good book for contradictions to throw at each other, but it would be a waste of time.
You may not accept it, but there was no "Adam" or "Eve" in the Genesis sense. Evolutionary science has come to the point where this is not subject to debate. Consequently, there was no "Fall" in the sense it was described in Genesis. Consequently, there was no "original sin" or a need to be forgiven.
As a human, I will readily own up to not being perfect, and if I have committed any "sins", I alone am responsible for them. The notion that someone died thousands of years ago to atone for *my* failings is risible.
I don't expect you to accept this, but unless you can provide evidence to refute it other than quoting the bible or other creationist literature, I'm sticking to my perspective.
BTW, your prayers for me to "believe" apparently haven't been answered. Must be god's mysterious ways again. ;-)
Steve Weeks
Tue Oct 08, 09:45:00 AM 2013
bob said...
“You may not accept it, but there was no "Adam" or "Eve" in the Genesis sense. Evolutionary science has come to the point where this is not subject to debate.”
Yet the debate continues with ‘evolution’ quite often coming off second best in spite of many of its claims, which means that evolutionary science is not nearly as bullet proof or as honest as its proponents would have us believe.
"Consequently, there was no "Fall" in the sense it was described in Genesis. Consequently, there was no "original sin" or a need to be forgiven. As a human, I will readily own up to not being perfect, and if I have committed any "sins", I alone am responsible for them. The notion that someone died thousands of years ago to atone for *my* failings is risible.”
That He died thousands of years ago is irrelevant since His death covers all of human history.
…of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Revelation 13:8
And why is it ridiculous that God should want to redeem His creation, which includes you, from sin and death, in order to restore His great name and His honour which have been defiled by our sins/crimes?
“I don't expect you to accept this, but unless you can provide evidence to refute it other than quoting the bible or other creationist literature...”
But you quote the Bible to support your own arguments. And you can’t expect your opponent to abandon the sources that support his position. It would be like a soldier allowing himself to be defeated by being conned into giving up his tactical position, armour and weapons (Ephesians 6:11-19).
“...I'm sticking to my perspective.”
Fair enough, but overall, I think your materialistic perspective is illogical, unsustainable and fatally flawed.
“BTW, your prayers for me to "believe" apparently haven't been answered. Must be god's mysterious ways again. ;-)”
It’s not over until it’ over.
Tue Oct 08, 11:29:00 PM 2013
Brucker said...
Joking aside, I wonder what you people think might be an acceptable response to the situation outlined. If I were a caterer who was homophobic for whatever reason (be it religious or not) and a same-sex couple wanted to enlist my services for their wedding reception, what should I do? It seems like there should be a solution that doesn't involve being a jerkass.
Wed Oct 09, 11:01:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
@ Brucker:
It's complicated. On the one hand, I'd think the simplest thing would be for the caterer to explain that his/her personal standards would be violated by providing the service, and for the person seeking the service to look elsewhere. This should only be a problem in an area served by a limited number of such service providers. It seems to me that if there is only one provider in the area, he/she is going to look like a jerk no matter what. Unless the law requires the service to be provided to anyone, that probably ends the matter.
I do not have the same "laissez faire" attitude to healthcare issues, however. Pharmacists and doctors should be required to provide their services regardless of their personal beliefs unless specifically permitted otherwise by law. If for any legal reason they don't have to do this, it would IMO be only common decency to provide an appropriate referral.
As a dentist (endodontist), I can't decline to treat a patient for reasons of race, religious belief (or lack of), creed, national origin, sexual orientation, HIV status, etc. Recently I performed a root canal treatment on one of my colleagues who is a young-earth creationist. I gave her by best effort and got a really nice result. I have also treated convicted murderers. My professional ethics does not permit otherwise. I don't judge, but not because the bible says not to (Matthew 7:1, Luke 6:37), and in spite of the bible saying that as an atheist I *do* judge (1 Corinthians 5:12-13).
Hope this helps.
Steve Weeks
Wed Oct 09, 12:48:00 PM 2013
Christian said...
Christians do not understand their Bible, that is the only fact I learn from them when debating. When an atheist has to show them what their holy book means then its really an ignorance problem.
Thu Oct 10, 01:40:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
@ Christian:
"Christians do not understand their Bible, that is the only fact I learn from them when debating."
Yes, but they have this marvelous ability to spin dross into gold, as seen a few posts up ^^. ;-)
Steve Weeks
Thu Oct 10, 06:41:00 AM 2013
bob said...
Christian,
"Christians do not understand their Bible, that is the only fact I learn from them when debating."
That is quite often true.
"When an atheist has to show them what their holy book means then its really an ignorance problem."
Not the athiests on this site, they have ignorance problems of their own (trying to turn gold into dross), but since you seem to be an authority on the Bible perhaps you could correct me on a few things.
Sat Oct 12, 12:29:00 PM 2013
Christian said...
Hi Bob
Never said I was an authority, but when something is written I read it for what it is. Check by my blog later today when I will have a post up explaining this point of view.
Sat Oct 12, 03:41:00 PM 2013
Matt Cantrell said...
And it begins....
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/10/couples-wedding-memories-tarnished-by-anti-semitic-rant-on-video/
Sat Oct 12, 03:52:00 PM 2013
Angelo Ventura said...
When Jesus talked of the law he came to fulfill, he was NOT talking of every bloody petty rule, but of the SPIRIT of the law- then spme interpolator put the "JOT OR TITTLE" bit
Tue Oct 22, 05:58:00 AM 2013
bushman0145 said...
I have to say it is a bit too naive to think that Christians should obey the Israelite laws, isn't it? Christ did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it which he did on the cross. The law being fulfilled, to follow it anymore would be to reject Christ's sacrifice. So for Wells to think Christians should follow the Law of Moses is a bit ignorant in my opinion. You obviously have been reading a bit too much SAB and not enough ESV (or whatever other version you may like).
What I want to know, Mr. Wells, is why you think that I as a Christian should obey the Law of Moses instead of the law of Christ, whose name I wear. I am at a bit of a loss as to why you think we should revert back to the law of Moses. I am pretty sure that the entire theme of the Old Testament was a looking forward to a final sacrifice that would do away with the need for the Law of Moses. So please enlighten me on what I am missing.
Wed Oct 30, 07:24:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
@ bushman 0145:
"So please enlighten me on what I am missing."
Well, for starters, how about that the whole thing is a bunch of made-up bronze age nonsense, for which there is exactly ZERO evidence?
Steve Weeks
Sun Nov 03, 12:29:00 PM 2013
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27 November 2013Thanksgivukkah: That's what Hanukkah is all about, Charlie Brown
Since Hanukkah (more of less) coincides with Thanksgiving this year, I thought I'd do a post in honor of Thanksgivukkah.
Everyone knows about Thanksgiving (more or less). But how many know about Hanukkah?
It's all about the Hanukkah killings (Killing 145 in Drunk With Blood: God's killings in the Bible).
Here's the story.
A year after God's slaughter of Georga's army, Lysias attacked Judas with army of 60,000.
The year following Lysias gathered together threescore thousand chosen men, and five thousand horsemen. 1 Machabees 4:28
Judas asked God to deliver the Syrians like he did the mighty and the strangers to David and Jonathan.
Judas met them with ten thousand men ... and he prayed, and said: Blessed art thou, O Saviour of Israel, who didst break the violence of the mighty by the hand of thy servant David, and didst deliver up the camp of the strangers into the hands of Jonathan the son of Saul and of his armourbearer. 4:29-30
He asked God to scare the hell out of them.
Strike them with fear ... and let them quake at their own destruction. 4:32
And kill them with the sword of those that love him.
Cast them down with the sword of them that love thee: and let all that know thy name, praise thee with hymns. 4:33
And it worked. God helped Judas kill another 5000.
And there fell of the army of Lysias five thousand men. 4:34
After God "discomfited" the Gentiles, Judas and his brethren went to clean up the Temple.
Then Judas, and his brethren said: Behold our enemies are discomfited: let us go up now to cleanse the holy places and to repair them. 4:36
They found the Temple to be a bit of a mess.
And they saw the sanctuary desolate, and the altar profaned, and the gates burnt, and shrubs growing up in the courts as in a forest, or on the mountains, and the chambers joining to the temple thrown down. 4:38
So they did the usual things that Jews do when they get upset: they rent their garments, put ashes on their heads, and fell on their faces.
They rent their garments ... and put ashes on their heads ...And they fell ... on their faces. 4:39-40
Then they cleaned things up at the Temple and killed some animals for God.
They made new holy vessels, and brought in the candlestick, and the altar of incense, and the table into the temple. And they put incense upon the altar, and lighted up the lamps ... And they offered sacrifice. 4:49-53
And everyone fell on their faces once again. (You just can't do that too many times.)
And all the people fell upon their faces . 4:55
When the Gentiles found out that the Jews had cleaned up the temple, they were exceedingly angry.
Now it came to pass, when the nations round about heard that the altar and the sanctuary were built up as before, that they were exceeding angry. 1 Machabees 5:1
And began to persecute and kill the Jews.
And they thought to destroy the generation of Jacob that were among them, and they began to kill some of the people, and to persecute them. 5:2
Which got Judas (and God) in a killing mood once again. He slaughtered the children of Esau.
Judas fought against the children of Esau in Idumea, and them that were in Acrabathane ... and he made a great slaughter of them. 5:3
Burned to death the children of Bean.
He remembered the malice of the children of Bean ... And they were shut up by him in towers, and he ... burnt their towers with fire, and all that were in them. 5:4-5
And smote the children of Ammon.
Then he passed over to the children of Ammon ... and they were discomfited in their sight, and he smote them. 5:6-7
God helped Judas kill the Gentiles because God likes the Jewish people more than other people, likes the Jewish religion more than other religions, and likes Jews to kill sacrifice animals to him in the Temple. After the slaughter of the Gentiles and the re-dedication of the Temple, the Jews established the annual eight-day festival, which we know today as Hanukkah.
Judas, and his brethren, and all the church of Israel decreed, that the day of the dedication of the altar should be kept in its season from year to year for eight days, from the five and twentieth day of the month of Casleu. 1 Machabees 4:59
And that's what Hanukkah is all about, Charlie Brown.
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/27/2013 12:43:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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1 comment:
Yark Hutprancer said...
what a joyous and uplifting story!!!
Wed Dec 11, 04:46:00 PM 2013
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27 November 2013Pope Francis: Islam and the Quran are opposed to every form of violence
In his first apostolic exhortation, Evangelii Gaudium ("The Joy of the Gospel"), Pope Francis pontificates about Islam.
Here's what he said in paragraph 253.
Faced with disconcerting episodes of violent fundamentalism, our respect for true followers of Islam should lead us to avoid hateful generalizations, for authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence.
So according to Pope Francis, we should replace "hateful generalizations" about Islam and the Quran with the hopeful (and obviously false) generalizations that Islam and the Quran "are opposed to every form of violence."
It is, of course, obvious to anyone who has read the Quran or today's newspaper that the pope's generalization is false. Islam is not opposed to every form of violence, and neither is the Quran.
Here are some verses from the Quran that the pope assures us are completely nonviolent.
Slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out ... If they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. Quran 2:191
Fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. 2:193
We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. 3:151
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other. ... So good women are the obedient. ... As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. 4:34
Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment. 4:56
Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil. 4:76
Choose not friends from them [unbelievers]. ... Take them and kill them wherever ye find them. 4:89
Take them [unbelievers] and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant. 4:91
The disbelievers are an open enemy to you. 4:101
Choose not disbelievers for (your) friends in place of believers. Would ye give Allah a clear warrant against you? 4:144
The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger ... will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom. 5:33
As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. ... An exemplary punishment from Allah. 5:38
Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. ... He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. 5:51
The Jews ... We have cast among them enmity and hatred till the Day of Resurrection. 5:64
I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger. 8:12
Fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. 8:39
It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. 8:67
Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. 9:5
Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers. 9:23
The Jews ... and the Christians ... Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they! 9:30
O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. 9:73
O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you. 9:123
But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. 22:19-21
Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves. 48:29
Those who take for friends a folk with whom Allah is wroth ... Allah hath prepared for them a dreadful doom. 58:14
Tell their brethren who disbelieve among the People of the Scripture ... that they verily are liars. 59:11
O ye who believe! Choose not My enemy and your enemy for allies. Do ye give them friendship when they disbelieve? 60:1
O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end. 66:9
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/27/2013 11:45:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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19 comments:
Yark Hutprancer said...
Popes are worthless.
Wed Dec 11, 04:49:00 PM 2013
paarsurrey said...
@ dwindlinginunbelief
Thanks for providing a list of some 30 places from Quran where you thing Quran teaches violence instead of peace.
I think you are an intelligent person; please select just ONE verse from it which you think is the most violent one among them.
We will discuss the verse here to find whether it is peaceful or violent one.?
Will you do it please?
Tue Feb 04, 01:52:00 PM 2014
paarsurrey said...
@ dwindlinginunbelief
Today is the fourth day that I requested you to choose from your list, One- most violent verse of Quran.
No response is forthcoming.
I think you might have not read the Quran yourself; and just copied/pasted the list from some other website in opposition of Quran/Islam/Muhammad.
If it would have naturally occurred to one while reading Quran ; one might not have prepared the list to start with; as there is no violent verse in Quran if understood correctly from the context verses.
I think you agree with me.
Do you? Please
Sat Feb 08, 12:18:00 PM 2014
Steve Wells said...
paarsurrey,
OK. How about 5:33?
"The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom."
But all 28 of these verses are violent, paarsurrey. If you dispute that, please select just ONE verse which you think is the least violent among them.
Sun Feb 09, 02:14:00 PM 2014
paarsurrey said...
@ Steve Wells : Sun Feb 09, 02:14:00 PM 2014
I now give below the verse 5:33 selected by you with the verses in the context from Quran:
[5:28] And relate to them truly the story of the two sons of Adam, when they each offered an offering, and it was accepted from one of them and was not accepted from the other. The latter said, ‘I will surely kill thee.’ The former replied, ‘Allah accepts only from the righteous.
[5:29] ‘If thou stretch out thy hand against me to kill me, I am not going to stretch out my hand against thee to kill thee. I do fear Allah, the Lord of the universe.
[5:30] ‘I wish that thou shouldst bear my sin as well as thy sin, and thus be among the inmates of the Fire, and that is the reward of those who do wrong.’
[5:31] But his mind induced him to kill his brother, so he killed him and became one of the losers.
[5:32] Then Allah sent a raven which scratched in the ground, that He might show him how to hide the corpse of his brother. He said, ‘Woe is me! Am I not able to be even like this raven so that I may hide the corpse of my brother?’ And then he became regretful.
[5:33] On account of this, We prescribed for the children of Israel that whosoever killed a person — unless it be for killing a person or for creating disorder in the land — it shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and whoso gave life to one, it shall be as if he had given life to all mankind. And Our Messengers came to them with clear Signs, yet even after that, many of them commit excesses in the land.
[5:34] The reward of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive to create disorder in the land is only this that they be slain or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on alternate sides, or they be expelled from the land. That shall be a disgrace for them in this world, and in the Hereafter they shall have a great punishment;
[5:35] Except those who repent before you have them in your power. So know that Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
[5:36] O ye who believe! fear Allah and seek the way of approach unto Him and strive in His way that you may prosper.
[5:37] Surely, if those who disbelieve had all that is in the earth and as much over again, to ransom themselves therewith from the punishment of the Day of Resurrection, it would not be accepted from them; and they shall have a painful punishment.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=5&verse=28
Now you have to prove that the teachings mentioned in the verses are against the norms of the society and are violent.
Please go through them and prove your viewpoint.
Thanks
Mon Feb 10, 09:01:00 AM 2014
Steve Wells said...
You're a funny guy, paarsurrey.
I have to "prove" that chopping off hands and feet on alternate sides or crucifying people is "against the norms of society."
Well, it depends on what society you're talking about. If it's a Muslim society, then it'd be in perfect accordance with their fucked up societal norms. Chopping off hands, feet, heads -- it's all a normal part of life for those who try to obey the Quran and Muhammad.
Do you think its cruel to cut off a person's hand, foot, or head, paarsurrey? Is it OK to crucify people who oppose Islam?
Please go through and prove your viewpoint.
Mon Feb 10, 09:29:00 AM 2014
paarsurrey said...
@Steve Wells said :Mon Feb 10, 09:29:00 AM 2014
Please don't mind a little question, Which country do you live in?
Sorry, it is a personal information; answer only if you don't mind; no compulsion, please.
Mon Feb 10, 03:32:00 PM 2014
Steve Wells said...
No problem, paarsurrey.
I live in the United States of America.
Mon Feb 10, 03:39:00 PM 2014
paarsurrey said...
@Steve Wells : Mon Feb 10, 03:39:00 PM 2014
Thank you for informing me that you live in the USA. It is a good state to live in; and many of my kith and kin live there and enjoy life there.
Please again peruse the verses of Quran I have quoted; you may read as many verses before them and after them as you like; you will realize that the verses don’t discuss anybody’s conversion to Islam by force; this is not all the subject matter of the verses.
Quran is for ethical, moral and spiritual up-lift of the human beings; it has got nothing to do with ruling any territory/ies and grabbing power.
The verses are general for everybody Muslim or non-Muslim. A Muslim who is cruel and jealous of others and persecutes others for the bounties others have got; he is as fit to receive the punishment and wrath of the One-True-God as those who don’t believe in Islam. This is exactly mentioned in the verses. In fact terrorism and its punishment is discussed in them, not literally but in so many words.
It is for this that I wrote you “to prove that the teachings mentioned in the verses are against the norms of the society and are violent”.
Thanks for joining the discussion; others could also join the discussion if they don’t agree with me.
After all it is a friendly discussion.
Tue Feb 11, 07:41:00 AM 2014
Steve Wells said...
@paarsurrey,
So you're not going to answer my question? Here it is again, in case you've forgotten.
Do you think its cruel to cut off a person's hand, foot, or head? Is it OK to crucify people who oppose Islam?
Quran 5:33 (or 34, depending on translations) says this:
"The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom."
Sounds cruel and violent to me. How about you, paarsurrey?
Tue Feb 11, 09:50:00 AM 2014
paarsurrey said...
@ Steve Wells : Tue Feb 11, 09:50:00 AM 2014
Regarding Cutting of leg Please read the following:
Leg Amputation
When you have a blockage or narrowing of the arteries supplying your legs, the circulation to your legs is reduced. You may have developed pain in your foot or feet waking you at night, ulceration, or black areas on your toes, feet or leg.
If severe arterial disease is left untreated, the lack of blood circulation will cause the pain to increase. Tissue in the leg will die due to lack of oxygen and nutrients, which leads to infection and gangrene. In some cases, gangrene can be very dangerous as the infection can spread through the body and become life-threatening.
Amputation is always a last resort and will only be recommended if your surgeon has decided it is not possible to improve the circulation in any other way.
The main sites of amputation are;
• Just below the knee
• Through the knee
• Through the thigh
The site of amputation will depend on how poor the blood supply to your leg is. If possible, below knee amputations are performed, as it is easier to walk with an artificial limb after the operation. However, many people do well after a thigh amputation. The following information will help to explain the procedure of leg amputation:
http://www.circulationfoundation.org.uk/help-advice/peripheral-arterial-disease/leg-amputation/
Do you think the Doctor who operates and cuts off a leg infected by gangrene; he does a cruel act?
Wed Feb 12, 01:26:00 PM 2014
Steve Wells said...
@paarsurrey,
Allah isn't talking about medical amputation in verse 5:33.
Here it is again: "Those who make war upon Allah and His messenger .... will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom."
Crucifixion is seldom an effective medical procedure.
Why not just admit that the Quran is cruel?
Wed Feb 12, 01:36:00 PM 2014
paarsurrey said...
@Steve Wells :Wed Feb 12, 01:36:00 PM 2014
I repeat my question? Please answer.
Do you think the Doctor who operates and cuts off a leg infected by gangrene; he does a cruel act?
Please answer
Tue Feb 18, 04:13:00 PM 2014
Steve Wells said...
@paarsurrey,
You asked: "Do you think the Doctor who operates and cuts off a leg infected by gangrene; he does a cruel act?"
No, of course not.
Is that what Quran 5:33 is about? When Allah says you should cut off a hand and a foot on alternate sides of the body, he's talking about a necessary medical procedure?
And how about crucifixion. Is that a necessary medical procedure too?
Is this really the best you can do, paarsurrey?
Tue Feb 18, 04:36:00 PM 2014
paarsurrey said...
@Steve Wells said:Tue Feb 18, 04:36:00 PM 2014
The verses mention that those who do acts of terrorism and spread chaos in the society; they deserve to be punished more severely than the normal killers; of course within the law of the land. In fact terrorism and its punishment are discussed here, not literally but in so many words.
This is but the norm of the worldwide international society; the terrorists are bombed.
The Quran does not allow to do any excesses on them, it is very clearly mentioned in the verses; that if they do such measures; then of course the society could punish them likewise, but no innocents should be killed with them and there should be no collateral damage. If the terrorists crucify or cut off the arms or legs of the public; they should be retaliated accordingly by the law.
It is for this that I wrote you to prove that the teachings mentioned in the verses are against the norms of the society.
Like a doctor cuts off the leg of a patient so that the infection may not spread to the whole body; similarly the society should punish the terrorists to save the humanity from their peril.
We can conclude, therefore, that the Quran verses [5:28] to [5:37] are nothing but peaceful.
Now, we can discuss another verse from your list.
http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/
Wed Feb 19, 03:51:00 PM 2014
Steve Wells said...
@paarsurrey,
Here is the verse that you say is "nothing but peaceful" and consistent with "the norm of the worldwide international society":
"Those who make war upon Allah and His messenger .... will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off." Quran 5:33
So you think that anyone who "makes war" on Allah or Muhammad should be crucified or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off? And this is perfectly peaceful? If so, you are insane.
Crucifixion and cutting off hands and feet are not acceptable punishments for anyone (certainly not for opposing the teachings of the Quran or Muhammad).
Wed Feb 19, 05:08:00 PM 2014
paarsurrey said...
@Steve Wells said :Wed Feb 19, 03:51:00 PM 2014
Now, we can discuss another verse from your list.
Please select another ONE verse from your long list.
Is there one? please
http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/
Thu Feb 20, 11:25:00 AM 2014
Steve Wells said...
@paarsurrey,
So you agree that Quran 5:33 is cruel and violent? If so, then there's no need to go on. We agree that the Quran contains at least one cruel and violent verse.
If not, then there's no need to go on, since crucifixion and chopping off hands and feet don't seem cruel or violent to you.
Is anything cruel or violent to you, paarsurrey?
Thu Feb 20, 11:56:00 AM 2014
paarsurrey said...
"So you agree that Quran 5:33 is cruel and violent?"
Did I say that?
The main post inform the pope that there are some 28 verses with violence.
@ steve wells
So you have a chance to discuss another verse, one by one, till all 28 verses are discussed; then we will discuss them in general and classify them.
Have a patience and do a little research in Quran by reading it yourself as I discussed vide my post of Sat Feb 08, 12:18:00 PM 2014.
Wed Mar 05, 04:38:00 PM 2014
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20 November 2013The Poverty and Justice Bible: Another exercise in dishonesty
20 Nov 13 Note: Back in January of 2009, after President Obama took the oath of office (without a Bible), the Evangelical Alliance sent him a copy of "the poverty and justice bible." Now the American Bible Society is sending copies of the same edition to all of the 535 members of Congress. So I thought I'd update my 2009 post one of the two most dishonest Bible editions (the other is "The Green Bible").
In previous posts I've mentioned the Green Bible, which highlights in green all the verses in the Bible that show God's loving concern for the environment. Of course, if they were being honest, there wouldn't be a single highlighted verse. Because the God of the Bible doesn't give a shit about the environment.
But they are not being honest, so they highlight verses like Numbers 21:6-7, where God sent snakes to bite and kill people for complaining about lack of food and water (God's 26th Killing).
I suppose this passage was highlighted because it had snakes in it (well, actually "fiery serpents"). So God must care about snakes (since he sent them to bite and kill people) or something.
A similar approach was taken by The Poverty and Justice Bible. It highlights in orange the verses that show God's attitude toward poverty and justice. In it they claim to have highlighted over 2000 verses. Among them is Joshua 7:25-26. I'll quote these verses using the translation that they use (the Contemporary English Version).
Joshua said, "Achan, you have caused us a lot of trouble. Now the Lord is paying you back with the same kind of trouble.
The people of Israel then stoned to death Achan and his family. They made a fire and burnt the bodies, together with what Achan had stolen, and all his possessions. They covered the remains with a big pile of rocks, which is still there. Then the Lord stopped being angry with Israel.
So this passage (God's 34th Killing) was highlighted in the PAJ Bible to show God's attitude towards justice -- which in this case is that anyone that steals stuff from God (after he had Israelites steal it from others after killing them all) should be stoned to death, along with his entire family.
In looking over the two (the Green and PAJ Bibles), I'm not sure which is more dishonest. If you get a chance, check them out at the library and let me know what you think. (Don't buy them, though. They're not worth it.)
The PAJ Bible, by the way, was sent to President Obama after his second oath of office by the Evangelical Alliance (the wording of his first oath was botched and had to be repeated). Since he didn't have a Bible for his second oath, they wanted to make sure he'd always have one around, one "that focuses on these issues that are so close to his, and God’s, heart.”
So now, thanks to the Evangelical Society, the American Bible Society, and the PAJ Bible, President Obama and Congress will know just what to do with someone that steals genocidal holy war booty from God: have everyone in the country stone him and his family to death and then burn them all for God. That way God won't be angry at us anymore.
(Maybe I should send the president and each member of Congress a copy of the Skeptic's Annotated Bible. But then, I know what they'd do with it -- the same thing they'll do with the Poverty and Justice Bible (throw it away).
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/20/2013 12:01:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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9 comments:
matt311 said...
Shit, that's ridiculous. That verse was cited as part of justice? Sounds more like a parody from The Chaser's War on Everything... but, then, I'm not one to believe the worst in people, so...
Sun Sep 13, 11:42:00 PM 2009
Ian G. said...
"genocidal holy war booty" is a lot harder to steal these days, because you can't just hijack a supertanker and expect no one to notice.
Mon Sep 14, 12:57:00 PM 2009
I am the wise fool. said...
I wonder if they highlighted all of the verses which suggest that wealth and health are a gift from God for obedience, much like the various prosperity preachers?
I'm guessing not, because that would imply poverty was a punishment from God for not obeying Him. I'm sure THAT is not the intent of this Bible version. ;-)
Mon Sep 14, 06:55:00 PM 2009
Cristiano SamZZ said...
Steve, that's why you should publish you own version of the Bible, the only one true intelectually honest, the SAB. That way we could counter these ridiculous versions.
Tue Sep 15, 04:05:00 PM 2009
Steve Wells said...
Cristiano,
I'm working on it. I hope to have an SAB book available in the next year or so.
Tue Sep 15, 04:19:00 PM 2009
Andrew Lawrence said...
God's heart cries when he sees poverty and injustice. It is a Christian's responsible to bring an end to poverty and ensure that there is justice for the oppressed.
Wed Feb 13, 01:14:00 AM 2013
Jonny Vincent said...
Andrew, I'm not a fancy theologian (I'm not even into sex with children) but it seems to me there are no Christians.
According to Christ, "Likewise, whosoever he be of you that hath not forsaken all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:33)
So according to Christ, you're an impostor. Gasp! Will this make your interest in children wrong?
It looks that way, Andrew. It sure does look that way.
Wed Nov 20, 12:31:00 PM 2013
Zarathustra said...
There are only two could use for the Bible.... Door stop, or toilet paper!
Tue Nov 26, 03:15:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
Thus Spake Zarathustra:
It doesn't make very good toilet paper, and using it as rolling paper might be toxic.
But surely you wouldn't use the Skeptic's Annotated Bible in such a way... it's much more valuable as a means of de-converting christians! ;-)
Steve Weeks
Tue Nov 26, 07:21:00 AM 2013
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19 November 2013God hates ornaments
Here's a fun little Bible story that I somehow forgot to include in the SAB. (I've added it this morning.)
It occurs in Exodus 33, just after God killed some of the Israelites in a plague (God's 15th Killing) because "of the calf, which Aaron made."
And the LORD plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made. Exodus 32:35
And before God shows Moses his back parts.
And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by. And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. 33:22-23
After the golden calf affair, God settled down a bit, and promised to lead Moses to a land flowing with milk and honey.
And the LORD said unto Moses, Depart ... Unto a land flowing with milk and honey. 33:1-3a
He said he'd send an angel to drive out (kill?) all the current inhabitants of the land. (Including the Canaanites and the Jebusites)
I will send an angel before thee; and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite. 33:2
(It turns out that God didn't keep his promise, but that's another story. See Joshua 15:63, 16:10, 17.12-13: Judges 1:21, 27, 3:1-5)
But God said he wouldn't be going with them, since if he did, he'd end up killing the lot of them for being so goddamned "stiffnecked."
I will not go up in the midst of thee; for thou art a stiffnecked people: lest I consume thee in the way. 33:3b
When the people heard God's promise/threat, they mourned and took off their ornaments.
And when the people heard these evil tidings, they mourned: and no man did put on him his ornaments ... And the children of Israel stripped themselves of their ornaments. 33:4, 6
Which was a good thing, too, since God said he'd kill them all on the spot if he saw any ornaments.
For the LORD had said unto Moses, Say unto the children of Israel, Ye are a stiffnecked people: I will come up into the midst of thee in a moment, and consume thee: therefore now put off thy ornaments from thee, that I may know what to do unto thee." 33.5
Because God hates ornaments.
(We already knew that God hates Christmas trees; now we know that he hates ornaments as well.)
(I'm not sure what the ornaments were exactly, but it couldn't have been the gold jewelry that the Israelites stole from the Egyptians, since they'd already given it to Aaron for his golden calf.)
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/19/2013 01:10:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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2 comments:
Erwin said...
? What's the point? I dont get it?
Tue Dec 03, 07:50:00 AM 2013
Steve Wells said...
What's not to get, Erwin?
God said he'd kill all the Israelites if they didn't get rid of their ornaments. The Israelites removed their ornaments and God decided not to kill them.
So if there is a point to the story, it is this: God hates ornaments.
Tue Dec 03, 11:47:00 AM 2013
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18 November 2013The Skeptic's Annotated "Noah" trailer
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/18/2013 07:05:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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Stephen said...
Looks like a must-see!
Steve Weeks
Tue Nov 19, 11:03:00 AM 2013
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18 November 2013Slide show of our SAB road trip
I made a slide show of our trip. Some of the photos aren't the best quality, so you might want to view it in full screen mode.
SAB road trip! by Slidely Slideshow
Posted by Philip Wells at 11/18/2013 01:29:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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Stephen said...
Great show, Steve! You look like the cat that just ate the canary in that image at the Chinese restaurant. I wish you could have seen my face after I tried your wife's raspberry preserves...Just delicious!
Cheers,
Steve Weeks
Mon Nov 18, 06:15:00 PM 2013
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18 November 2013Pat Condell: How gay is Islam?
0:28 - "Among UK Muslims disapproval is 100%."
"Muslims in Britain have zero tolerance towards homosexual acts. ... None of the 500 British Muslims interviewed believed that homosexual acts were morally acceptable."
Muslims in Britain have zero tolerance of homosexuality, says poll The Guardian, 7 May 2009
2:28 "In Iran, they've settled the matter by hanging them from cranes in public."
Gays should be tortured and hanged, says Iranian minister meeting British MPs Daily Mail, 14 Nov 2007
Execution in Iran
2:32 - "In Mauritania they use the more traditional method, stoning to death."
"Any adult Muslim man who commits an impudent act against nature with an individual of his sex will face the penalty of death by public stoning."
"Deciphering Motive: Establishing Sexual Orientation as the 'One Central Reason' for Persecution in Asylum Claims", Columbia Human Rights Law Review, authored by Ritu Ghai, 43.2:349 (2012), page 522, footnote #4
2:37 - "In Saudi Arabia they prefer beheading, as they do for many things in that country, including witchcraft."
In January 2002, Saudi Arabia executed three men for "sodomy, marriage among themselves, and inciting pedophilia" (Paris Le Monde 4 Jan. 2002). The three men were beheaded by sword in public.
Saudi Arabia: The situation of homosexuals, including treatment by authorities and legal penalties Refworld
2:45 - "In countries that don't include the death penalty for being gay, it's still punishable by flogging and imprisonment."
Maldives (100% Muslim) — House arrest for women; banishment or whippings for men.
Morocco (99.9% Muslim) — Fine and between six month and three years in jail.
Afghanistan (>99% Muslim) — Imprisonment.
Kuwait — (>99% Muslim) Up to seven years in jail.
Somalia (99% Muslim) — Possible death penalty by stoning in southern parts of the country; elsewhere, a jail sentence of up to three years.
Algeria (99% Muslim) — Fines and a jail sentence of up to three years.
Yemen (~99% Muslim) — Imprisonment up to seven years, whipping with 100 lashes, or death by stoning, depending on gender and circumstances.
Tunisia (~98%) — Up to three years in prison; same-sex activity between women is legal.
Sudan (>97% Muslim) — Five years in prison, life imprisonment, flogging, and/or death penalty.
Libya — (97% Muslim) Up to five years of jail time.
Pakistan (96.4%) — Between two and 10 years in prison.
Bangladesh (89% Muslim) — Fine and up to 10 years in prison.
Syria (~87% Muslim) — Up to three years in prison.
Qatar (81% Muslim) — Up to seven years in prison (and for Muslims, corporal punishment or death).
Oman (75% Muslim) — Imprisonment from six months to three years.
Malaysia (61.3% Muslim) — Up to 20 years in prison and possibly whipping.
BuzzFeed: 76 Countries Where Anti-Gay Laws Are As Bad As Or Worse Than Russia’s (% Muslim statistics from Wikipedia)
2:49 - "It was announced recently that several Islamic countries are trying to find a medical test to detect gay people and stop them at the border, so disgusted are they to homosexuality."
Gulf states to introduce medical testing on travelers to 'detect' gay people and stop them from entering the country Mail Online 8 October 2013
3:00 - "They even forced the United Nations to remove sexual orientation from a resolution condemning arbitrary executions, because Islamic countries want the right to arbitrarily execute gay people without being condemned for it."
UN cowardice is a betrayal of its gay citizens Patrick Strudwick: The Guardian, 23 Nov 2013
U.N. panel cuts gay reference from violence measure Reuters, Nov 17, 2010
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/18/2013 10:33:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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39 comments:
Yark Hutprancer said...
Thank you, religion.
Mon Nov 18, 01:01:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
You're welcome, atheists, well, it's a dirty job of putting some sense in gays, but someone got to do it.
Health Risks of the Homosexual Lifestyle
"The current media portrayal of gay and lesbian relationships is that they are as healthy, stable and loving as heterosexual marriages — or even more so.1 Medical associations are promoting somewhat similar messages.2 Sexual relationships between members of the same sex, however, expose gays, lesbians and bisexuals to extreme risks of Sexually Transmitted Diseases (STDs), physical injuries, mental disorders and even a shortened life span. "
http://factsaboutyouth.com/posts/health-risks-of-the-homosexual-lifestyle/
I thought atheists are scientific and logical thinkers or something and aren't sex obsessed. Guess I was wrong.
"Reports at a national conference about sexually transmitted diseases indicate that gay men are in the highest risk group for several of the most serious diseases. . . . Scientists believe that the increased number of sexually tranmitted diseases (STD) cases is the result of an increase in risky sexual practices by a growing number of gay men who believe HIV is no longer a life-threatening illness.[1]"
http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=Is01B1
CDC Data Shows Alarming 16,000% HIV Risk
Increase in the Homosexual Population
http://www.pewsitter.com/view_news_id_125129.php
Mon Nov 18, 04:14:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
"Physical injuries that can result from anal sex include: bleeding, lacerations, and perforations of the rectum and/or anal sphincter muscles. Once this damage occurs, open sores, hemorrhoids, and anal warts can result.[xxiii] Anal sex (as well as oral/anal contact) also exposes individuals to fecal matter, which can lead to a number of gastrointestinal infections, such as proctitis, enteritis, and proctocolitis.[xxiv]"
http://www.ncfamily.org/FNC/0707S3.html
"Cancer Risks. Certain cancers are more common among lesbians, specifically breast cancer and various gynecological cancers (uterine, cervical, endometrial and ovarian).[xlvi] According to the DHHS, factors that may increase the cancer risk among lesbians include: the fact that lesbians are generally less likely to bear children, and higher rates of alcohol use and obesity among lesbians.[xlvii]"
Ibid.
"The life expectancy for gay and bisexual men is 20 years less than the average Canadian man;
GLB people commit suicide at rates ranging from twice as often to almost 14 times more than the general population;
GLBs have smoking rates ranging from 1.3 to three times higher than average;
GLBs become alcoholics at a rate 1.4 to seven times higher than the general population;
GLBs use illicit drugs at a rate from 1.6 to 19 times higher than other Canadians;
GLBs experience depression at rates ranging from 1.8 to three times higher than average;
Homosexual men comprise 76% of AIDS cases and 45% of all new HIV infections;
GLB populations are at a higher risk of lung and liver cancer;
Homosexual and bisexual men suffer a higher rate of anal cancer than heterosexual men;
Lesbians report a higher rate of breast cancer;
GLBs experience verbal and physical abuse at a greater rate than most Canadians."
http://www.dakotavoice.com/2009/05/homosexual-group-admits-health-risks-of-homosexual-behavior/
Is this the reason for atheists to hate religion so much? Is this the reason why Steve resents so much husband and wife/wives relationship? Well, Stephen, Steve? Cat got your tongue?
Mon Nov 18, 04:42:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
So srizals, which form of Islamic punishment for homosexuals do you prefer? Hanging, beheading, or stoning? What would Muhammad (pb&jbup) do?
Mon Nov 18, 04:48:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
"Homosexual people tend to experience more mental health problems than heterosexual people, research indicates. Discrimination may contribute to the higher risk, believes lead researcher Dr. Apu Chakraborty of University College London, UK.
His team looked at rates of mental disorder among 7,403 adults living in the UK, whose details were obtained from the Adult Psychiatric Morbidity Survey 2007. Rates of depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, phobia, self-harm, suicidal thoughts, and alcohol and drug dependence were significantly higher in homosexual respondents."
http://psychcentral.com/lib/higher-risk-of-mental-health-problems-for-homosexuals/0006527
Tell me what you think first about homosexuality based on what I've presented up there and here, and I will answer your question? Does this sound fair to you?
Mon Nov 18, 05:49:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
Well, it's okay for Stephen that these human beings being self destructive and suffer severely alone in prolonged agony for all he cares. Stephen is what Stephen thinks. But what about you, Steve? Or are you going to copy and paste another part of "Ash Shifa" to make your point?
Mon Nov 18, 05:56:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
So, srizals, what you are saying is that we should kill homosexuals by hanging, beheading, or stoning in order to protect them from smoking, cancer, and sexually transmitted diseases?
Mon Nov 18, 06:07:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
We should educate them, empower them with courage to overpower their deviant cravings with wisdom to reach self actualization until they can see and understand their true natural being. We should provide surroundings that would stop such awkwardnesses from developing in the first place.
Opposite attracts and produces results; beautiful little babies, legacy of love. The future of mankind.
Sameness aren't meant to copulate. Even the magnet pole knows their field. I mean, where's the attraction when one is emotionally and physically the same with one's desire, if you get what I mean. Where's the fun in that? I have what you have? And that suppose to arouse me? Duhh!
STDs, mental and physical illnesses resulted from such behaviour is the scientific proof that one should not be homosexual.
In Islam, 4 pious witnesses are required for a death penalty. Have you seen any homosexual partners do it in public?
It is a preventative measure. And Muslims are not allowed to seek his brothers or sisters' shortcomings. In private, it is between them and God, not unless they made it a public thing by doing it openly, unashamedly to promote it. God covers their shame, why in the hell that they exposed it in public anyway?
But then again, they are on a death wish anyway, is it wrong if the law end their miseries without further ado? Or would you rather them suffer a slow and agonising, tormenting death?
But then again, do you have figures of the dead or persecuted homosexuals in Muslim nations, then and now? I mean Muslim nations that profess Prophet Muhammad is above them, including their clerics, Imams and Mullahs? Sharia is meant more as a preventative measure than punishment, it is stated in the requirements to execute sinners. If the law didn't get them, STDs and insanity will. Either way, they're in the path of destruction. Atheists such as you are promoting the poor souls' slow destruction, in a very deceitful "friendly and supportive" manner. Shame on you.
People can change if you stop pampering them in falsehood and support them to be true.
"Would they like me to keep quiet about my sexuality change, to “live a lie” and deny that anything happened? The answer seems to be yes! They wish to silence me, deny me the right to live my life as I choose, and would like to force me to lead a lifestyle that they think is right!
Not only am I not gay anymore, but I'm happier too. I will lead my life the way I choose to lead it - not the way anyone else tells me to. I chose to change my sexuality. And it worked.
To quote the gay rights protesters,
I’m here,
I’m no longer queer,
GET USED TO IT!
Signed,
Jake "
http://pfox.org/diary_exgay_man.html
"I felt I was finally "me". However, my drug addiction got worse to the point where I became a cocaine dealer just to support my habit - I lost my art business to drugs, as well as my dignity to a life based upon a perverse, sensual and decrepit lifestyle I couldn't break free from. It was at this point many of my friends and one night encounters were getting "sick" and dying, and no one knew why. This sickness was the beginning of the Aids epidemic."
http://www.iwasgay.com/
Stop deluding gays that they are living their dreams when in fact, they are living their worst nightmares.
Tue Nov 19, 08:00:00 AM 2013
sascha.humphrey said...
Even though he's right, I find Pat Condell a very racist person, who seems to be a Zionist supporter and as such condones racism, apartheid, crimes against humanity and warcrimes
Tue Nov 19, 08:16:00 AM 2013
Steve Wells said...
I've listened to most of Pat Condell's videos and I've never heard him say anything racist. But maybe I missed something. Could you provide a link or a quote of something he has said to justify your accusation of racism?
Tue Nov 19, 08:22:00 AM 2013
Steve Wells said...
Well, at least you gave a partial answer to my question.
You say, "they are on a death wish anyway, is it wrong if the law end their miseries without further ado?"
So you believe homosexuals should be executed (to put them out of their misery). But I asked you, "which form of Islamic punishment for homosexuals do you prefer? Hanging, beheading, or stoning?"
It'd be great to get an answer to that question.
Tue Nov 19, 08:34:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
"Almost half the mass murderers (serial killers) in U.S. history were homosexual or so called bi-sexual. And the vast majority of their victims practiced homosexuality. As it turns out homosexuals have more to fear from other homosexuals then from heterosexual hate crimes. The 8 famous homosexuals listed above have murdered over 350 people between them!"
http://thexavierjamesfiles.blogspot.com/2013/10/new-famous-homosexuals-in-history-list_11.html
"Although homosexual murderers of single victims are too numerous to list here, a number of particularly famous ones include: Nathan Leopold and Richard Loeb (the wealthy and academically bright gay Chicago couple who murdered a boy in 1924 just for fun; their story became one of the nation's most famous murder cases, and was the basis for many movies, including Hitchcock's film "Rope")"
http://www.adherents.com/misc/hsk.html
"A Canadian cannibal on trial for killing, dismembering and eating his murdered boyfriend fainted in court on Tuesday after lawyers showed him video evidence of the crime.
Luka Rocco Magnotta asked for a five-minute break during the preliminary hearing for the May 2012 murder of his former boyfriend, Chinese student Jun Lin."
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/suspected-canadian-cannibal-collapses-footage-lover-murder-shown-article-1.1293383#ixzz2lCm8CBPe
In my opinion, the gays killed each other more than Islam, Steve, not counting the others not so gay victimised by them. So don't even try to paint that Islam is a homophobic killer or something. Are you a gay, Steve?
In Islam, the human and his/her nature is considered sacred and protected by law, even if it means of protecting them from his/her own self. Come on Steve, why are you so afraid of giving your thoughts in here? Afraid that your books won't sell?
So what's your opinion? Should gays be cannibalized, sodomized and tortured slowly to death for gays' sexual gratification or executed swiftly by law WHEN they openly commit the crime publicly or confessed for no obvious reason?
Wed Nov 20, 08:50:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
By the way, do you know this clown, Steve?
"In 1978, 15-year-old Robert Piest went missing. It was reported to police that the boy had last been seen by his mother as he was headed to Gacy's in relation to a potential job. On December 21, a police search of Gacy's house in Des Plaines, Illinois, uncovered evidence of his involvement in numerous horrific acts, including murder. It would later be determined that Gacy had killed 33 boys and young men, the majority of whom had been buried under the house and garage, while others would be recovered from the nearby Des Plaines River.
Gacy lured his victims to his home with the promise of construction work, and then captured, sexually assaulted and eventually strangled most of them with rope. When he killed, he sometimes dressed as his alter ego "Pogo the Clown."
http://www.biography.com/people/john-wayne-gacy-10367544
How about this gayish person?
Jeffrey Dahmer admits his atheism was the reason for his horrific crime
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnPvb9HtSWw
Do they look like a victim of Islam to you, Steve? Do you honestly think that Islam is a threat to them? Should not there be a law to keep them in order? Should not there be a law to protect us and them from them? Answer them partially if you can, Steve.
Wed Nov 20, 09:24:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
When I say partially, I mean a little bit of honesty as well.
Statistics, statistics!
"Source, "over 43%": "Homosexual Rape and Murder of Children", published in Journal of the Family Research Institute, Vol. 18 No. 1, Feb 2003.
Technically, 69% of the serial killers in this study were homosexuals (i.e., people who were self-described homosexuals or people who had engaged in homosexual behavior immediately prior to, during, or after committing their murders). The lower statistic of 43% cited above is the proportion who were homosexual among people who molested or raped and then murdered children: 43% of these perpetrators were homosexuals. This lower figure, however, includes people who killed only a single person, and are thus not classified as serial killers. The lower figure is used in the article above (as "over 43%") because it comes from a larger sample size. Presumably, if the sample size were expanded to include a wider range of years, the proportion of serial killers who are homosexuals would remain between the proportion in this study who are serial killers (69% homosexuals versus 31% heterosexuals) and the proportion of all killers in this study (43% homosexual versus 57% heterosexual). Also note the approximately 50% of murders committed by homosexuals reported by Warren with regards to murders of adults. See also: Gemert, F. van, "Chicken kills hawk: gay murders during the eighties in Amsterdam", published in Journal of Homosexuality. 26(4), 149-174 (1994)."
http://www.adherents.com/misc/hsk.html
Wed Nov 20, 09:43:00 AM 2013
Steve Wells said...
Here's my answer to your question, srizals.
It is wrong always and everywhere for anyone to punish, harm or discriminate against homosexuals in any way whatsoever. (Let me know if this statement isn't clear enough for you.)
So when you ask, "Should gays be ... executed swiftly by law WHEN they openly commit the crime publicly or confessed for no obvious reason?" My answer is, No, of course not. It amazes me that anyone could ask such a question.
But you obviously think homosexuals should be "executed swiftly." My question to you is, once again, how should that execution be performed? By publicaly hanging them from a crane as in Iran, stoning as in Mauritania, or beheading as in Saudi Arabia?
Which is the most correct Islamic punishment? What Would Mo Do?
Wed Nov 20, 09:55:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
Mo? You mean Mao? He would have them starved to death as he did to the peasants of China? So many simple questions, and yet?
Well, how about this, should gays be eaten, raped and tortured by gays for sexual(gratification)rights, Steve? Should gays be killed by Aids? Should evolution do something about it?
Wed Nov 20, 04:17:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
By "Mo" I meant "Muhammad," srizals.
And you still haven't answered the question.
What Would Muhammad Do? How would he kill homosexuals? What is the proper way according to Islam? By publicly hanging them from a crane as in Iran, stoning as in Mauritania, or beheading as in Saudi Arabia?
Wed Nov 20, 04:29:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
What would he do? You tell me. You're the expert, aren't you? You're such a good guesser and overgenaraliser, if there is such a word.
Well, give us the statistics, Steve. How many homosexuals died in his hands and in Muslim countries. Compare them with homosexuals that died in heinous crime, such as having their genitals mutilated for fun, by other homosexuals.
Where's the statistics in Iran, Mauritania and Saudi Arabia? How about Malaysia? Do you have them? Do you want me to speculate based on speculation? Could you give me the instances I can verify so that I won't be speculating on rumours? We're scientific thinkers, right? How to make a conclusion based on rumours? Do you believe everything you read and see in the Internet? Have you ever heard of cross-referring? Give them and then I'll share my point of view. Sound fair to you?
"From among the teachings of Allah's Messenger (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam) is to keep sins a secret matter. If someone commits a sinful act which is against the Commandments of Allah, or is against the moral character, or is such an act that may cause harm to one's honor, then he should keep it a secret and seek forgiveness from Allah in the darkness of night. The Messenger of Allah (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam) said: "My entire nation is safe, except al-Mujahirin (those who boast of their sins). Among the Mujaharah is that a man commits an (evil) act, and wakes up in the morning while Allah has kept his (sin) a secret, he says: "O Fulan! Last night I did this and that." He goes to sleep while Allah has kept his (sin) a secret but he wakes up in the morning and uncovers what Allah has kept a secret!" [Saheeh al-Bukharee]
Zayd ibn Aslam narrated, 'At the time of the Messenger of Allah(salallahu alaihe wa-sallam), a man admitted that he had committed fornication, so the Messenger of Allah asked for a whip. He was brought a broken whip, so he said: "Better than this." Then he was brought a new whip…, he then said: "Lesser than this.' So, he was brought a whip that was used and had thus become soft, and the Messenger (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam) ordered that he be whipped with it (a hundred times). He then said: "O People! It is time for you to refrain from transgressing Allah's limits. He who commits some of these filthy acts (such as fornication), let him hide under Allah's cover, for whoever admits what he has committed, we will establish Allah's Book as regards him (by applying the warranted punishment for this sin)." [Musnad Ahmad]
http://www.ahya.org/amm/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=141
Does this answer your question of what Muhammad, the prophet would do? Sorry, in a hurry, am holidaying here okay.
Wed Nov 20, 06:33:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
That's great, srizals. You've changed your mind and no longer think homosexuals should be executed. I'm glad we agree on something!
Wed Nov 20, 07:00:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
"Well, give us the statistics, Steve. How many homosexuals died in his hands and in Muslim countries. Compare them with homosexuals that died in heinous crime, such as having their genitals mutilated for fun, by other homosexuals."
I don't know what you're smoking, but it is *powerful* stuff! :lol:
Steve Weeks
Thu Nov 21, 03:57:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
Stephen, Muslims don't smoke. Smoke this Stephen. You're dreaming. Wake up to the world of the real.
"One murderer, later to be identified as Randy Kraft, routinely picked up hitchhikers, gays, Marines, or whoever caught his fancy. He then drugged them, tortured them for hours and ended up by castrating them and shoving whatever was handy — broom handle, tree branch, pole, the victim's own genitals or underwear — into their rectums. He usually did this while the victim was still alive and screaming."
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/patrick_kearney/6.html
The former Mr Gay UK murdered boyfriend Damian Oldfield before cooking and eating his flesh.
Morley, who was 36 at the time, slashed Mr Oldfield’s throat before stabbing him multiple times in April 2008.
The chef then carved a piece of flesh from the 33-year-old’s thigh, seasoned it with fresh herbs and fried it in olive oil before eating it.
Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/miami-cannibal-the-worlds-most-infamous-852136#ixzz2lLfJSITJ
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook
Are you getting high yet, Stephen?
Thu Nov 21, 09:16:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
"In 1992 two Jeffersonville, Indiana lesbians, aged 17 and 16, abducted a 12-year-old girl whom they accused of trying to “steal a girlfriend.” The little girl was pushed into the trunk of a car, stabbed repeatedly, and beaten with a heavy metal bar. While still struggling, they poured gasoline on her and set her ablaze. Later that year a Fort Lauderdale, Florida 14-year-old was convicted of first-degree murder for helping to kill his 40-year-old father. The father “was stabbed 45 times and beaten so badly with an iron skillet that the skillet shattered.” The boy confessed that he helped his father’s former homosexual lover and roommate kill him so he and the 31-year-old “could live together.”
http://www.familyresearchinst.org/2009/02/violence-and-homosexuality/
Thu Nov 21, 10:22:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
"In 1992 three London STD clinics reported that almost half of their homosexual patients who knew they were infected with HIV had then gotten rectal gonorrhoea. (14) These gays were not permitting their deadly infection to spoil their sexual fun. By 1993 over 100,000 U.S. gays had died of AIDS and tens of thousands had died of hepatitis B. Most of these had been infected, many deliberately or carelessly, by other homosexuals."
Ibid.
Thu Nov 21, 10:32:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
What Pat the old boy forgot to remind the gays,
"THE GLOBAL HIV/AIDS CRISIS TODAY
HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, has become one of the world’s most serious health and development challenges:
33.4 million are currently living with HIV/AIDS.
More than 25 million people have died of AIDS worldwide since the first cases were reported in 1981.
In 2008, 2 million people died due to HIV/AIDS, and another 2.7 million were newly infected.
While cases have been reported in all regions of the world, almost all those living with HIV (97%) reside in low- and middle-income countries, particularly in sub-Saharan Africa.
According to the World Health Organization (WHO), most people living with HIV or at risk for HIV do not have access to prevention, care, and treatment, and there is still no cure.
The HIV epidemic not only affects the health of individuals, it impacts households, communities, and the development and economic growth of nations. Many of the countries hardest hit by HIV also suffer from other infectious diseases, food insecurity, and other serious problems."
http://aids.gov/hiv-aids-basics/hiv-aids-101/global-statistics/index.html
Thu Nov 21, 10:58:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
"Mr. Schalchlin no longer worries about dying of AIDS. But he has other health problems, more often seen in people 10 or 20 years older: kidney damage, diabetes, chronic fatigue, thyroid disease, partial paralysis in one eye and general weakness that limits him throughout the day.
He is, he has learned, host to a virus that never stops working, grinding away at him, and requiring sustained, complicated treatment, each medicine bringing its own side effects. At times, he said, it becomes too much. “Sometimes I just get so tired of the fight, it just becomes exhausting,” he said. “Do I have to go another day with this, and another day, and another day? I don’t think about the future because I’m too busy worrying about the next day and the next hour and the next meal and which pill I’m supposed to take.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/02/nyregion/spared-death-aging-people-with-hiv-struggle-to-live.html?_r=0
Thu Nov 21, 11:06:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
So friends and foes, should we be worrying more about Islam and gays or Gays and Aids and crimes? Should we let an opportunistic "having nothing else to do" zionist old man demonize Islam and Muslims so that the real issues, the threats and dire consequences in the real life for not abiding with God's rule, go unnoticed? Islam deals with difficult issues and difficult people and has both the punishment and the way out. It is neither too strict nor too soft. No one is trapped in the middle. No one is left to fend for themselves like Mr. Schalchlin. He was left to err by his community and suffer alone. No amount of liberalism, ideas or philosophy could have prevented this tragedy from happening to the human race. And it's a real disgrace.
Thu Nov 21, 11:24:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
Hey! Same-sex marriage is now legal in Illinois. The exorcism performed by a man in a dress apparently didn't have any influence.
Just checked my own marriage (to a woman, same one, 31 years) and it seems unaffected.
Looks like progress to me.
Don't like same-sex marriage? Don't be in one!
Steve Weeks
Mon Nov 25, 08:20:00 PM 2013
Yark Hutprancer said...
The argument against homosex, when it is not just plain "god said its bad," always seems to be one about health. Homosex is bad because homosexuals have a higher risk of illness (mental or otherwise), but why does this make it wrong? Coal miners have tremendous health problems, but I don't see any stupid religionists freaking out about it. Nascar drivers, mountain climbers, loggers, roofers, electricians, people who fly on planes, drive cars, go on boats, all increase their risk of death and dismemberment! Why don't the anti gay people complain about these activities? Cops, firemen, the military - all increase their chance of disease and death. Why do you consider behavior people choose to engage in that introduces risk to themselves to be wrong? Isn't it THEIR lives to do with as they wish?
And are you really saying that women not having kids is wrong because they have increased risk of breast cancer? Are you out of your mind?
Illness of all types is something to be combatted, not avoided by enslaving oneself to specific behaviors. What is life without risk anyway? Boring as hell.
Wed Dec 11, 05:17:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
Yark, tens of millions died or are dying of self-inflicted misery for short-lived fun while dragging countless innocents more with them. The innocents that did or do not find self-gratification as the sole purpose of life, what more of death.
You are being immature. How many millions died because they craved adrenaline rush? Are the risks and consequences the same? Everyone dies, it's the way, the reason and the how that make the difference.
"33.4 million are currently living with HIV/AIDS. More than 25 million people have died of AIDS worldwide since the first cases were reported in 1981. In 2008, 2 million people died due to HIV/AIDS, and another 2.7 million were newly infected."
http://aids.gov/federal-resources/around-the-world/global-aids-overview/
Want to have fun, with meaning that last a lifetime? Go travel, do things, play games, help the needy, be with friends and loved ones in a healthy environment with acceptable range of risks. Be with the true God. While the last one of the list may take some time but it's a journey one will never ever forget. How meaningful your life would be.
Sat Dec 14, 07:03:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
"Want to have fun, with meaning that last (sic) a lifetime? Go travel, do things, play games, help the needy, be with friends and loved ones in a healthy environment with acceptable range of risks."
I do all those things as an atheist, and lots (probably the majority, at least in civilized countries) of gays do as well. What's more, I have even *more* time to do worthwhile things because I'm not wasting it "worshipping" a non-existent delusion.
Steve Weeks
Sun Dec 15, 08:25:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
Stephen, that's the point. For atheists, being godless is having suicidal intent of pleasing oneself beside pleasing God and as a result, suffer in prolonged agony and emptiness for worthless short-lived fun. And that's sure is a meaningful way to live a godless life. And how destructive it is proved to be, being godless I mean.
How can you say being spiritually, physically, morally and healthily safe in an act of worship of the true God as a waste of time and energy? What about gays that wasted their lives suffering from unbearable pains they will never ever recover for their entire sorry life for the sake of self-worship? Is it not a waste? How irresponsible atheism is then. Being populist at the expense of the ill-informed!
Sun Dec 15, 05:16:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
Take a look at this definition of life, beside having endless repeated vicious cycle of fun and having to suffer after accomplishing it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d16CpWp-ok
You never answer me, Stephen. How can an abundance of truth be considered as a make-believe story? And how can an abundance of lies be perceived as the ultimate truth? Or are you going to switch to your clownish silent mode like whenever you're cornered by your conscience?
God is not a human, clothed in human skins, separated individuals or whatever interpretations of man-made religions that say God is or a part of His creations, live and die, have sex and bear children, inconsistent and vulnerable, bound by earthly or worldly weaknesses. He is the all-mighty God, the One and Only. And no so-called religious text fancied by mortals can ever degrade Him, by those who wrote them or those who mocked the made-up religious texts. It is only an eye-opener for those who seek Him instead of interpretation of God by corrupt and unintelligent men of the now and the past. Read and look for proof. You'll find the true God. He is not like us or things around us, seen or unseen. He is God, the Creator of all.
How can He be a part of this puny world when He is the Creator of the universe? And when I say puny, we are really, really puny, as in nano-puny if the term do exist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcz4vGvoxQA
Sun Dec 15, 05:45:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
Some of the proof of truth for Islam,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hToyGMGfFg
And below is why we shouldn't be too proud of our greatness, be it in terms of possession or desire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hToyGMGfFg
Sun Dec 15, 05:53:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
And if you're honest enough, may be this video would be of interest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cCEwshrG80&list=PLHKz7qTluGt2dT1Wk_RopZVEy3ltA7hqX
Sun Dec 15, 06:09:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
I think we have a completely irreconcilable difference of understanding of what constitutes evidence. For me, it does not suffice to quote scripture or cite testimonials of others based on scriptures.
Actually, I'm not sure what I would accept as evidence of the existence of any god. With christians I usually say I'd be convinced if they were successful in praying that I become a believer. According to the new testament, anyone who asks anything sincerely will have the request granted. Is your god so generous? If so, give it a try. If it is his will, then surely I won'r be able to resist. So far, no christian prayers have changed my mind. Knock yourself out. ;-)
Steve Weeks
Sun Dec 15, 07:29:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
I see, so God has to present Himself to you, the great human atheist so that He can and need to convince you that you were wrong, how "godly" would that be! Who do you think you are, anyway?
This life is a test and has consequences, a great journey of discovery, what a boring life would it be that God just popped up every now and then to convince His creations that He exist, as his creations exist. What absurdity! Who's who then? Have not we been equipped with sound mind and senses to seek Him?
It's our arrogance all along that veiled the truth from our hearts, by making up rules for others that we don't even abide. You asked the proof for God and yet you can't prove that He doesn't exist! If you want your dreams and needs fulfilled at your command, I think you would find it much better to have a slave or a servant than God. I think you have mixed up the concept of God with servitude.
Perhaps if you stop growing old or dictate the world to your whims, I would be a believing atheist that you are god himself! Perhaps then you can order the HIV to stop tormenting gays or even sperms and ovums to stop being babies and end the abortion menace. But you can't, can you?
God has dictate His rule, change it according to your whims and I'll be an atheist that would die into darkness of nothingness as all the criminals that escape worldly justice, the birds and the bees. We are all the same, right?
Stephen, I know you think you're special, you are, in your own particular way, but why would I want you to be a Muslim? What good will it do to me or the universe? And besides, it's not up to me, who becomes a Muslim or not. But I have prayed to have the girl of my dream, I got her for 17 years now. I have prayed for the abundance of health and wealth and children. I've been blessed with so much more. My prayers were answered after I've done my part if they are good for me. But the test of life goes on, of course.
"For each one are successive [angels] before and behind him who protect him by the decree of Allah. Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves. And when Allah intends for a people ill, there is no repelling it. And there is not for them besides Him any patron. (11)"
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/13:11
The truth is more special than any of us. Not everyone is entitled to it. It is awarded to those who humbled themselves in knowledge and understanding that they are limited and are not absolute but so special that they are not to end up like other non-humans. But I do have to admit, I do hope you'll see the truth for your own good, as to all that read our discussion here. But as they say, we have to let go and let God after we've done our part.
Last words from me, do not deny God as a reason to escape from your conscience of what is right and wrong. It would be a grave intellectual dishonesty on your part.
I wonder have you watched this video? It's not as funny and sarcastic as this blog is, but it involved science, evidence, theories and scientists. I think you will find it interesting, scientifically if not religiously. 1:26 is a golden moment, but you really have to watch it from the beginning to the end, to really appreciate it. Good luck!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ4DzspnHz4&list=PLHKz7qTluGt2dT1Wk_RopZVEy3ltA7hqX
Mon Dec 16, 06:55:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
"Do they await but that Allah should come to them in covers of clouds and the angels [as well] and the matter is [then] decided? And to Allah [all] matters are returned. (210)"
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/2:210
God has already addressed you and your atheistic question, 1,400 years ago.
Mon Dec 16, 07:24:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
So your god is worthless and powerless. Thought so.
Steve Weeks
Tue Dec 17, 04:04:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
"Last words from me, do not deny God as a reason to escape from your conscience of what is right and wrong. It would be a grave intellectual dishonesty on your part."
That's not the reason I "deny god". Actually, I deny the existence of god (*any* god)because there is no plausible evidence for it. There's nothing "intellectually dishonest" about expecting evidence; in fact, accepting things on faith alone is more properly described as intellectual dishonesty.
I watched as much of the long video as I could tolerate... all I can say is it misrepresents the science, especially of evolution.
The scriptural quotations... O_o
Steve Weeks
Tue Dec 17, 01:44:00 PM 2013
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18 November 2013Pat Condell: How gay is Islam?
0:28 - "Among UK Muslims disapproval is 100%."
"Muslims in Britain have zero tolerance towards homosexual acts. ... None of the 500 British Muslims interviewed believed that homosexual acts were morally acceptable."
Muslims in Britain have zero tolerance of homosexuality, says poll The Guardian, 7 May 2009
2:28 "In Iran, they've settled the matter by hanging them from cranes in public."
Gays should be tortured and hanged, says Iranian minister meeting British MPs Daily Mail, 14 Nov 2007
Execution in Iran
2:32 - "In Mauritania they use the more traditional method, stoning to death."
"Any adult Muslim man who commits an impudent act against nature with an individual of his sex will face the penalty of death by public stoning."
"Deciphering Motive: Establishing Sexual Orientation as the 'One Central Reason' for Persecution in Asylum Claims", Columbia Human Rights Law Review, authored by Ritu Ghai, 43.2:349 (2012), page 522, footnote #4
2:37 - "In Saudi Arabia they prefer beheading, as they do for many things in that country, including witchcraft."
In January 2002, Saudi Arabia executed three men for "sodomy, marriage among themselves, and inciting pedophilia" (Paris Le Monde 4 Jan. 2002). The three men were beheaded by sword in public.
Saudi Arabia: The situation of homosexuals, including treatment by authorities and legal penalties Refworld
2:45 - "In countries that don't include the death penalty for being gay, it's still punishable by flogging and imprisonment."
Maldives (100% Muslim) — House arrest for women; banishment or whippings for men.
Morocco (99.9% Muslim) — Fine and between six month and three years in jail.
Afghanistan (>99% Muslim) — Imprisonment.
Kuwait — (>99% Muslim) Up to seven years in jail.
Somalia (99% Muslim) — Possible death penalty by stoning in southern parts of the country; elsewhere, a jail sentence of up to three years.
Algeria (99% Muslim) — Fines and a jail sentence of up to three years.
Yemen (~99% Muslim) — Imprisonment up to seven years, whipping with 100 lashes, or death by stoning, depending on gender and circumstances.
Tunisia (~98%) — Up to three years in prison; same-sex activity between women is legal.
Sudan (>97% Muslim) — Five years in prison, life imprisonment, flogging, and/or death penalty.
Libya — (97% Muslim) Up to five years of jail time.
Pakistan (96.4%) — Between two and 10 years in prison.
Bangladesh (89% Muslim) — Fine and up to 10 years in prison.
Syria (~87% Muslim) — Up to three years in prison.
Qatar (81% Muslim) — Up to seven years in prison (and for Muslims, corporal punishment or death).
Oman (75% Muslim) — Imprisonment from six months to three years.
Malaysia (61.3% Muslim) — Up to 20 years in prison and possibly whipping.
BuzzFeed: 76 Countries Where Anti-Gay Laws Are As Bad As Or Worse Than Russia’s (% Muslim statistics from Wikipedia)
2:49 - "It was announced recently that several Islamic countries are trying to find a medical test to detect gay people and stop them at the border, so disgusted are they to homosexuality."
Gulf states to introduce medical testing on travelers to 'detect' gay people and stop them from entering the country Mail Online 8 October 2013
3:00 - "They even forced the United Nations to remove sexual orientation from a resolution condemning arbitrary executions, because Islamic countries want the right to arbitrarily execute gay people without being condemned for it."
UN cowardice is a betrayal of its gay citizens Patrick Strudwick: The Guardian, 23 Nov 2013
U.N. panel cuts gay reference from violence measure Reuters, Nov 17, 2010
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/18/2013 10:33:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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39 comments:
Yark Hutprancer said...
Thank you, religion.
Mon Nov 18, 01:01:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
You're welcome, atheists, well, it's a dirty job of putting some sense in gays, but someone got to do it.
Health Risks of the Homosexual Lifestyle
"The current media portrayal of gay and lesbian relationships is that they are as healthy, stable and loving as heterosexual marriages — or even more so.1 Medical associations are promoting somewhat similar messages.2 Sexual relationships between members of the same sex, however, expose gays, lesbians and bisexuals to extreme risks of Sexually Transmitted Diseases (STDs), physical injuries, mental disorders and even a shortened life span. "
http://factsaboutyouth.com/posts/health-risks-of-the-homosexual-lifestyle/
I thought atheists are scientific and logical thinkers or something and aren't sex obsessed. Guess I was wrong.
"Reports at a national conference about sexually transmitted diseases indicate that gay men are in the highest risk group for several of the most serious diseases. . . . Scientists believe that the increased number of sexually tranmitted diseases (STD) cases is the result of an increase in risky sexual practices by a growing number of gay men who believe HIV is no longer a life-threatening illness.[1]"
http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=Is01B1
CDC Data Shows Alarming 16,000% HIV Risk
Increase in the Homosexual Population
http://www.pewsitter.com/view_news_id_125129.php
Mon Nov 18, 04:14:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
"Physical injuries that can result from anal sex include: bleeding, lacerations, and perforations of the rectum and/or anal sphincter muscles. Once this damage occurs, open sores, hemorrhoids, and anal warts can result.[xxiii] Anal sex (as well as oral/anal contact) also exposes individuals to fecal matter, which can lead to a number of gastrointestinal infections, such as proctitis, enteritis, and proctocolitis.[xxiv]"
http://www.ncfamily.org/FNC/0707S3.html
"Cancer Risks. Certain cancers are more common among lesbians, specifically breast cancer and various gynecological cancers (uterine, cervical, endometrial and ovarian).[xlvi] According to the DHHS, factors that may increase the cancer risk among lesbians include: the fact that lesbians are generally less likely to bear children, and higher rates of alcohol use and obesity among lesbians.[xlvii]"
Ibid.
"The life expectancy for gay and bisexual men is 20 years less than the average Canadian man;
GLB people commit suicide at rates ranging from twice as often to almost 14 times more than the general population;
GLBs have smoking rates ranging from 1.3 to three times higher than average;
GLBs become alcoholics at a rate 1.4 to seven times higher than the general population;
GLBs use illicit drugs at a rate from 1.6 to 19 times higher than other Canadians;
GLBs experience depression at rates ranging from 1.8 to three times higher than average;
Homosexual men comprise 76% of AIDS cases and 45% of all new HIV infections;
GLB populations are at a higher risk of lung and liver cancer;
Homosexual and bisexual men suffer a higher rate of anal cancer than heterosexual men;
Lesbians report a higher rate of breast cancer;
GLBs experience verbal and physical abuse at a greater rate than most Canadians."
http://www.dakotavoice.com/2009/05/homosexual-group-admits-health-risks-of-homosexual-behavior/
Is this the reason for atheists to hate religion so much? Is this the reason why Steve resents so much husband and wife/wives relationship? Well, Stephen, Steve? Cat got your tongue?
Mon Nov 18, 04:42:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
So srizals, which form of Islamic punishment for homosexuals do you prefer? Hanging, beheading, or stoning? What would Muhammad (pb&jbup) do?
Mon Nov 18, 04:48:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
"Homosexual people tend to experience more mental health problems than heterosexual people, research indicates. Discrimination may contribute to the higher risk, believes lead researcher Dr. Apu Chakraborty of University College London, UK.
His team looked at rates of mental disorder among 7,403 adults living in the UK, whose details were obtained from the Adult Psychiatric Morbidity Survey 2007. Rates of depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, phobia, self-harm, suicidal thoughts, and alcohol and drug dependence were significantly higher in homosexual respondents."
http://psychcentral.com/lib/higher-risk-of-mental-health-problems-for-homosexuals/0006527
Tell me what you think first about homosexuality based on what I've presented up there and here, and I will answer your question? Does this sound fair to you?
Mon Nov 18, 05:49:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
Well, it's okay for Stephen that these human beings being self destructive and suffer severely alone in prolonged agony for all he cares. Stephen is what Stephen thinks. But what about you, Steve? Or are you going to copy and paste another part of "Ash Shifa" to make your point?
Mon Nov 18, 05:56:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
So, srizals, what you are saying is that we should kill homosexuals by hanging, beheading, or stoning in order to protect them from smoking, cancer, and sexually transmitted diseases?
Mon Nov 18, 06:07:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
We should educate them, empower them with courage to overpower their deviant cravings with wisdom to reach self actualization until they can see and understand their true natural being. We should provide surroundings that would stop such awkwardnesses from developing in the first place.
Opposite attracts and produces results; beautiful little babies, legacy of love. The future of mankind.
Sameness aren't meant to copulate. Even the magnet pole knows their field. I mean, where's the attraction when one is emotionally and physically the same with one's desire, if you get what I mean. Where's the fun in that? I have what you have? And that suppose to arouse me? Duhh!
STDs, mental and physical illnesses resulted from such behaviour is the scientific proof that one should not be homosexual.
In Islam, 4 pious witnesses are required for a death penalty. Have you seen any homosexual partners do it in public?
It is a preventative measure. And Muslims are not allowed to seek his brothers or sisters' shortcomings. In private, it is between them and God, not unless they made it a public thing by doing it openly, unashamedly to promote it. God covers their shame, why in the hell that they exposed it in public anyway?
But then again, they are on a death wish anyway, is it wrong if the law end their miseries without further ado? Or would you rather them suffer a slow and agonising, tormenting death?
But then again, do you have figures of the dead or persecuted homosexuals in Muslim nations, then and now? I mean Muslim nations that profess Prophet Muhammad is above them, including their clerics, Imams and Mullahs? Sharia is meant more as a preventative measure than punishment, it is stated in the requirements to execute sinners. If the law didn't get them, STDs and insanity will. Either way, they're in the path of destruction. Atheists such as you are promoting the poor souls' slow destruction, in a very deceitful "friendly and supportive" manner. Shame on you.
People can change if you stop pampering them in falsehood and support them to be true.
"Would they like me to keep quiet about my sexuality change, to “live a lie” and deny that anything happened? The answer seems to be yes! They wish to silence me, deny me the right to live my life as I choose, and would like to force me to lead a lifestyle that they think is right!
Not only am I not gay anymore, but I'm happier too. I will lead my life the way I choose to lead it - not the way anyone else tells me to. I chose to change my sexuality. And it worked.
To quote the gay rights protesters,
I’m here,
I’m no longer queer,
GET USED TO IT!
Signed,
Jake "
http://pfox.org/diary_exgay_man.html
"I felt I was finally "me". However, my drug addiction got worse to the point where I became a cocaine dealer just to support my habit - I lost my art business to drugs, as well as my dignity to a life based upon a perverse, sensual and decrepit lifestyle I couldn't break free from. It was at this point many of my friends and one night encounters were getting "sick" and dying, and no one knew why. This sickness was the beginning of the Aids epidemic."
http://www.iwasgay.com/
Stop deluding gays that they are living their dreams when in fact, they are living their worst nightmares.
Tue Nov 19, 08:00:00 AM 2013
sascha.humphrey said...
Even though he's right, I find Pat Condell a very racist person, who seems to be a Zionist supporter and as such condones racism, apartheid, crimes against humanity and warcrimes
Tue Nov 19, 08:16:00 AM 2013
Steve Wells said...
I've listened to most of Pat Condell's videos and I've never heard him say anything racist. But maybe I missed something. Could you provide a link or a quote of something he has said to justify your accusation of racism?
Tue Nov 19, 08:22:00 AM 2013
Steve Wells said...
Well, at least you gave a partial answer to my question.
You say, "they are on a death wish anyway, is it wrong if the law end their miseries without further ado?"
So you believe homosexuals should be executed (to put them out of their misery). But I asked you, "which form of Islamic punishment for homosexuals do you prefer? Hanging, beheading, or stoning?"
It'd be great to get an answer to that question.
Tue Nov 19, 08:34:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
"Almost half the mass murderers (serial killers) in U.S. history were homosexual or so called bi-sexual. And the vast majority of their victims practiced homosexuality. As it turns out homosexuals have more to fear from other homosexuals then from heterosexual hate crimes. The 8 famous homosexuals listed above have murdered over 350 people between them!"
http://thexavierjamesfiles.blogspot.com/2013/10/new-famous-homosexuals-in-history-list_11.html
"Although homosexual murderers of single victims are too numerous to list here, a number of particularly famous ones include: Nathan Leopold and Richard Loeb (the wealthy and academically bright gay Chicago couple who murdered a boy in 1924 just for fun; their story became one of the nation's most famous murder cases, and was the basis for many movies, including Hitchcock's film "Rope")"
http://www.adherents.com/misc/hsk.html
"A Canadian cannibal on trial for killing, dismembering and eating his murdered boyfriend fainted in court on Tuesday after lawyers showed him video evidence of the crime.
Luka Rocco Magnotta asked for a five-minute break during the preliminary hearing for the May 2012 murder of his former boyfriend, Chinese student Jun Lin."
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/suspected-canadian-cannibal-collapses-footage-lover-murder-shown-article-1.1293383#ixzz2lCm8CBPe
In my opinion, the gays killed each other more than Islam, Steve, not counting the others not so gay victimised by them. So don't even try to paint that Islam is a homophobic killer or something. Are you a gay, Steve?
In Islam, the human and his/her nature is considered sacred and protected by law, even if it means of protecting them from his/her own self. Come on Steve, why are you so afraid of giving your thoughts in here? Afraid that your books won't sell?
So what's your opinion? Should gays be cannibalized, sodomized and tortured slowly to death for gays' sexual gratification or executed swiftly by law WHEN they openly commit the crime publicly or confessed for no obvious reason?
Wed Nov 20, 08:50:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
By the way, do you know this clown, Steve?
"In 1978, 15-year-old Robert Piest went missing. It was reported to police that the boy had last been seen by his mother as he was headed to Gacy's in relation to a potential job. On December 21, a police search of Gacy's house in Des Plaines, Illinois, uncovered evidence of his involvement in numerous horrific acts, including murder. It would later be determined that Gacy had killed 33 boys and young men, the majority of whom had been buried under the house and garage, while others would be recovered from the nearby Des Plaines River.
Gacy lured his victims to his home with the promise of construction work, and then captured, sexually assaulted and eventually strangled most of them with rope. When he killed, he sometimes dressed as his alter ego "Pogo the Clown."
http://www.biography.com/people/john-wayne-gacy-10367544
How about this gayish person?
Jeffrey Dahmer admits his atheism was the reason for his horrific crime
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnPvb9HtSWw
Do they look like a victim of Islam to you, Steve? Do you honestly think that Islam is a threat to them? Should not there be a law to keep them in order? Should not there be a law to protect us and them from them? Answer them partially if you can, Steve.
Wed Nov 20, 09:24:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
When I say partially, I mean a little bit of honesty as well.
Statistics, statistics!
"Source, "over 43%": "Homosexual Rape and Murder of Children", published in Journal of the Family Research Institute, Vol. 18 No. 1, Feb 2003.
Technically, 69% of the serial killers in this study were homosexuals (i.e., people who were self-described homosexuals or people who had engaged in homosexual behavior immediately prior to, during, or after committing their murders). The lower statistic of 43% cited above is the proportion who were homosexual among people who molested or raped and then murdered children: 43% of these perpetrators were homosexuals. This lower figure, however, includes people who killed only a single person, and are thus not classified as serial killers. The lower figure is used in the article above (as "over 43%") because it comes from a larger sample size. Presumably, if the sample size were expanded to include a wider range of years, the proportion of serial killers who are homosexuals would remain between the proportion in this study who are serial killers (69% homosexuals versus 31% heterosexuals) and the proportion of all killers in this study (43% homosexual versus 57% heterosexual). Also note the approximately 50% of murders committed by homosexuals reported by Warren with regards to murders of adults. See also: Gemert, F. van, "Chicken kills hawk: gay murders during the eighties in Amsterdam", published in Journal of Homosexuality. 26(4), 149-174 (1994)."
http://www.adherents.com/misc/hsk.html
Wed Nov 20, 09:43:00 AM 2013
Steve Wells said...
Here's my answer to your question, srizals.
It is wrong always and everywhere for anyone to punish, harm or discriminate against homosexuals in any way whatsoever. (Let me know if this statement isn't clear enough for you.)
So when you ask, "Should gays be ... executed swiftly by law WHEN they openly commit the crime publicly or confessed for no obvious reason?" My answer is, No, of course not. It amazes me that anyone could ask such a question.
But you obviously think homosexuals should be "executed swiftly." My question to you is, once again, how should that execution be performed? By publicaly hanging them from a crane as in Iran, stoning as in Mauritania, or beheading as in Saudi Arabia?
Which is the most correct Islamic punishment? What Would Mo Do?
Wed Nov 20, 09:55:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
Mo? You mean Mao? He would have them starved to death as he did to the peasants of China? So many simple questions, and yet?
Well, how about this, should gays be eaten, raped and tortured by gays for sexual(gratification)rights, Steve? Should gays be killed by Aids? Should evolution do something about it?
Wed Nov 20, 04:17:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
By "Mo" I meant "Muhammad," srizals.
And you still haven't answered the question.
What Would Muhammad Do? How would he kill homosexuals? What is the proper way according to Islam? By publicly hanging them from a crane as in Iran, stoning as in Mauritania, or beheading as in Saudi Arabia?
Wed Nov 20, 04:29:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
What would he do? You tell me. You're the expert, aren't you? You're such a good guesser and overgenaraliser, if there is such a word.
Well, give us the statistics, Steve. How many homosexuals died in his hands and in Muslim countries. Compare them with homosexuals that died in heinous crime, such as having their genitals mutilated for fun, by other homosexuals.
Where's the statistics in Iran, Mauritania and Saudi Arabia? How about Malaysia? Do you have them? Do you want me to speculate based on speculation? Could you give me the instances I can verify so that I won't be speculating on rumours? We're scientific thinkers, right? How to make a conclusion based on rumours? Do you believe everything you read and see in the Internet? Have you ever heard of cross-referring? Give them and then I'll share my point of view. Sound fair to you?
"From among the teachings of Allah's Messenger (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam) is to keep sins a secret matter. If someone commits a sinful act which is against the Commandments of Allah, or is against the moral character, or is such an act that may cause harm to one's honor, then he should keep it a secret and seek forgiveness from Allah in the darkness of night. The Messenger of Allah (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam) said: "My entire nation is safe, except al-Mujahirin (those who boast of their sins). Among the Mujaharah is that a man commits an (evil) act, and wakes up in the morning while Allah has kept his (sin) a secret, he says: "O Fulan! Last night I did this and that." He goes to sleep while Allah has kept his (sin) a secret but he wakes up in the morning and uncovers what Allah has kept a secret!" [Saheeh al-Bukharee]
Zayd ibn Aslam narrated, 'At the time of the Messenger of Allah(salallahu alaihe wa-sallam), a man admitted that he had committed fornication, so the Messenger of Allah asked for a whip. He was brought a broken whip, so he said: "Better than this." Then he was brought a new whip…, he then said: "Lesser than this.' So, he was brought a whip that was used and had thus become soft, and the Messenger (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam) ordered that he be whipped with it (a hundred times). He then said: "O People! It is time for you to refrain from transgressing Allah's limits. He who commits some of these filthy acts (such as fornication), let him hide under Allah's cover, for whoever admits what he has committed, we will establish Allah's Book as regards him (by applying the warranted punishment for this sin)." [Musnad Ahmad]
http://www.ahya.org/amm/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=141
Does this answer your question of what Muhammad, the prophet would do? Sorry, in a hurry, am holidaying here okay.
Wed Nov 20, 06:33:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
That's great, srizals. You've changed your mind and no longer think homosexuals should be executed. I'm glad we agree on something!
Wed Nov 20, 07:00:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
"Well, give us the statistics, Steve. How many homosexuals died in his hands and in Muslim countries. Compare them with homosexuals that died in heinous crime, such as having their genitals mutilated for fun, by other homosexuals."
I don't know what you're smoking, but it is *powerful* stuff! :lol:
Steve Weeks
Thu Nov 21, 03:57:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
Stephen, Muslims don't smoke. Smoke this Stephen. You're dreaming. Wake up to the world of the real.
"One murderer, later to be identified as Randy Kraft, routinely picked up hitchhikers, gays, Marines, or whoever caught his fancy. He then drugged them, tortured them for hours and ended up by castrating them and shoving whatever was handy — broom handle, tree branch, pole, the victim's own genitals or underwear — into their rectums. He usually did this while the victim was still alive and screaming."
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/patrick_kearney/6.html
The former Mr Gay UK murdered boyfriend Damian Oldfield before cooking and eating his flesh.
Morley, who was 36 at the time, slashed Mr Oldfield’s throat before stabbing him multiple times in April 2008.
The chef then carved a piece of flesh from the 33-year-old’s thigh, seasoned it with fresh herbs and fried it in olive oil before eating it.
Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/miami-cannibal-the-worlds-most-infamous-852136#ixzz2lLfJSITJ
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook
Are you getting high yet, Stephen?
Thu Nov 21, 09:16:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
"In 1992 two Jeffersonville, Indiana lesbians, aged 17 and 16, abducted a 12-year-old girl whom they accused of trying to “steal a girlfriend.” The little girl was pushed into the trunk of a car, stabbed repeatedly, and beaten with a heavy metal bar. While still struggling, they poured gasoline on her and set her ablaze. Later that year a Fort Lauderdale, Florida 14-year-old was convicted of first-degree murder for helping to kill his 40-year-old father. The father “was stabbed 45 times and beaten so badly with an iron skillet that the skillet shattered.” The boy confessed that he helped his father’s former homosexual lover and roommate kill him so he and the 31-year-old “could live together.”
http://www.familyresearchinst.org/2009/02/violence-and-homosexuality/
Thu Nov 21, 10:22:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
"In 1992 three London STD clinics reported that almost half of their homosexual patients who knew they were infected with HIV had then gotten rectal gonorrhoea. (14) These gays were not permitting their deadly infection to spoil their sexual fun. By 1993 over 100,000 U.S. gays had died of AIDS and tens of thousands had died of hepatitis B. Most of these had been infected, many deliberately or carelessly, by other homosexuals."
Ibid.
Thu Nov 21, 10:32:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
What Pat the old boy forgot to remind the gays,
"THE GLOBAL HIV/AIDS CRISIS TODAY
HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, has become one of the world’s most serious health and development challenges:
33.4 million are currently living with HIV/AIDS.
More than 25 million people have died of AIDS worldwide since the first cases were reported in 1981.
In 2008, 2 million people died due to HIV/AIDS, and another 2.7 million were newly infected.
While cases have been reported in all regions of the world, almost all those living with HIV (97%) reside in low- and middle-income countries, particularly in sub-Saharan Africa.
According to the World Health Organization (WHO), most people living with HIV or at risk for HIV do not have access to prevention, care, and treatment, and there is still no cure.
The HIV epidemic not only affects the health of individuals, it impacts households, communities, and the development and economic growth of nations. Many of the countries hardest hit by HIV also suffer from other infectious diseases, food insecurity, and other serious problems."
http://aids.gov/hiv-aids-basics/hiv-aids-101/global-statistics/index.html
Thu Nov 21, 10:58:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
"Mr. Schalchlin no longer worries about dying of AIDS. But he has other health problems, more often seen in people 10 or 20 years older: kidney damage, diabetes, chronic fatigue, thyroid disease, partial paralysis in one eye and general weakness that limits him throughout the day.
He is, he has learned, host to a virus that never stops working, grinding away at him, and requiring sustained, complicated treatment, each medicine bringing its own side effects. At times, he said, it becomes too much. “Sometimes I just get so tired of the fight, it just becomes exhausting,” he said. “Do I have to go another day with this, and another day, and another day? I don’t think about the future because I’m too busy worrying about the next day and the next hour and the next meal and which pill I’m supposed to take.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/02/nyregion/spared-death-aging-people-with-hiv-struggle-to-live.html?_r=0
Thu Nov 21, 11:06:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
So friends and foes, should we be worrying more about Islam and gays or Gays and Aids and crimes? Should we let an opportunistic "having nothing else to do" zionist old man demonize Islam and Muslims so that the real issues, the threats and dire consequences in the real life for not abiding with God's rule, go unnoticed? Islam deals with difficult issues and difficult people and has both the punishment and the way out. It is neither too strict nor too soft. No one is trapped in the middle. No one is left to fend for themselves like Mr. Schalchlin. He was left to err by his community and suffer alone. No amount of liberalism, ideas or philosophy could have prevented this tragedy from happening to the human race. And it's a real disgrace.
Thu Nov 21, 11:24:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
Hey! Same-sex marriage is now legal in Illinois. The exorcism performed by a man in a dress apparently didn't have any influence.
Just checked my own marriage (to a woman, same one, 31 years) and it seems unaffected.
Looks like progress to me.
Don't like same-sex marriage? Don't be in one!
Steve Weeks
Mon Nov 25, 08:20:00 PM 2013
Yark Hutprancer said...
The argument against homosex, when it is not just plain "god said its bad," always seems to be one about health. Homosex is bad because homosexuals have a higher risk of illness (mental or otherwise), but why does this make it wrong? Coal miners have tremendous health problems, but I don't see any stupid religionists freaking out about it. Nascar drivers, mountain climbers, loggers, roofers, electricians, people who fly on planes, drive cars, go on boats, all increase their risk of death and dismemberment! Why don't the anti gay people complain about these activities? Cops, firemen, the military - all increase their chance of disease and death. Why do you consider behavior people choose to engage in that introduces risk to themselves to be wrong? Isn't it THEIR lives to do with as they wish?
And are you really saying that women not having kids is wrong because they have increased risk of breast cancer? Are you out of your mind?
Illness of all types is something to be combatted, not avoided by enslaving oneself to specific behaviors. What is life without risk anyway? Boring as hell.
Wed Dec 11, 05:17:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
Yark, tens of millions died or are dying of self-inflicted misery for short-lived fun while dragging countless innocents more with them. The innocents that did or do not find self-gratification as the sole purpose of life, what more of death.
You are being immature. How many millions died because they craved adrenaline rush? Are the risks and consequences the same? Everyone dies, it's the way, the reason and the how that make the difference.
"33.4 million are currently living with HIV/AIDS. More than 25 million people have died of AIDS worldwide since the first cases were reported in 1981. In 2008, 2 million people died due to HIV/AIDS, and another 2.7 million were newly infected."
http://aids.gov/federal-resources/around-the-world/global-aids-overview/
Want to have fun, with meaning that last a lifetime? Go travel, do things, play games, help the needy, be with friends and loved ones in a healthy environment with acceptable range of risks. Be with the true God. While the last one of the list may take some time but it's a journey one will never ever forget. How meaningful your life would be.
Sat Dec 14, 07:03:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
"Want to have fun, with meaning that last (sic) a lifetime? Go travel, do things, play games, help the needy, be with friends and loved ones in a healthy environment with acceptable range of risks."
I do all those things as an atheist, and lots (probably the majority, at least in civilized countries) of gays do as well. What's more, I have even *more* time to do worthwhile things because I'm not wasting it "worshipping" a non-existent delusion.
Steve Weeks
Sun Dec 15, 08:25:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
Stephen, that's the point. For atheists, being godless is having suicidal intent of pleasing oneself beside pleasing God and as a result, suffer in prolonged agony and emptiness for worthless short-lived fun. And that's sure is a meaningful way to live a godless life. And how destructive it is proved to be, being godless I mean.
How can you say being spiritually, physically, morally and healthily safe in an act of worship of the true God as a waste of time and energy? What about gays that wasted their lives suffering from unbearable pains they will never ever recover for their entire sorry life for the sake of self-worship? Is it not a waste? How irresponsible atheism is then. Being populist at the expense of the ill-informed!
Sun Dec 15, 05:16:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
Take a look at this definition of life, beside having endless repeated vicious cycle of fun and having to suffer after accomplishing it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d16CpWp-ok
You never answer me, Stephen. How can an abundance of truth be considered as a make-believe story? And how can an abundance of lies be perceived as the ultimate truth? Or are you going to switch to your clownish silent mode like whenever you're cornered by your conscience?
God is not a human, clothed in human skins, separated individuals or whatever interpretations of man-made religions that say God is or a part of His creations, live and die, have sex and bear children, inconsistent and vulnerable, bound by earthly or worldly weaknesses. He is the all-mighty God, the One and Only. And no so-called religious text fancied by mortals can ever degrade Him, by those who wrote them or those who mocked the made-up religious texts. It is only an eye-opener for those who seek Him instead of interpretation of God by corrupt and unintelligent men of the now and the past. Read and look for proof. You'll find the true God. He is not like us or things around us, seen or unseen. He is God, the Creator of all.
How can He be a part of this puny world when He is the Creator of the universe? And when I say puny, we are really, really puny, as in nano-puny if the term do exist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcz4vGvoxQA
Sun Dec 15, 05:45:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
Some of the proof of truth for Islam,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hToyGMGfFg
And below is why we shouldn't be too proud of our greatness, be it in terms of possession or desire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hToyGMGfFg
Sun Dec 15, 05:53:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
And if you're honest enough, may be this video would be of interest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cCEwshrG80&list=PLHKz7qTluGt2dT1Wk_RopZVEy3ltA7hqX
Sun Dec 15, 06:09:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
I think we have a completely irreconcilable difference of understanding of what constitutes evidence. For me, it does not suffice to quote scripture or cite testimonials of others based on scriptures.
Actually, I'm not sure what I would accept as evidence of the existence of any god. With christians I usually say I'd be convinced if they were successful in praying that I become a believer. According to the new testament, anyone who asks anything sincerely will have the request granted. Is your god so generous? If so, give it a try. If it is his will, then surely I won'r be able to resist. So far, no christian prayers have changed my mind. Knock yourself out. ;-)
Steve Weeks
Sun Dec 15, 07:29:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
I see, so God has to present Himself to you, the great human atheist so that He can and need to convince you that you were wrong, how "godly" would that be! Who do you think you are, anyway?
This life is a test and has consequences, a great journey of discovery, what a boring life would it be that God just popped up every now and then to convince His creations that He exist, as his creations exist. What absurdity! Who's who then? Have not we been equipped with sound mind and senses to seek Him?
It's our arrogance all along that veiled the truth from our hearts, by making up rules for others that we don't even abide. You asked the proof for God and yet you can't prove that He doesn't exist! If you want your dreams and needs fulfilled at your command, I think you would find it much better to have a slave or a servant than God. I think you have mixed up the concept of God with servitude.
Perhaps if you stop growing old or dictate the world to your whims, I would be a believing atheist that you are god himself! Perhaps then you can order the HIV to stop tormenting gays or even sperms and ovums to stop being babies and end the abortion menace. But you can't, can you?
God has dictate His rule, change it according to your whims and I'll be an atheist that would die into darkness of nothingness as all the criminals that escape worldly justice, the birds and the bees. We are all the same, right?
Stephen, I know you think you're special, you are, in your own particular way, but why would I want you to be a Muslim? What good will it do to me or the universe? And besides, it's not up to me, who becomes a Muslim or not. But I have prayed to have the girl of my dream, I got her for 17 years now. I have prayed for the abundance of health and wealth and children. I've been blessed with so much more. My prayers were answered after I've done my part if they are good for me. But the test of life goes on, of course.
"For each one are successive [angels] before and behind him who protect him by the decree of Allah. Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves. And when Allah intends for a people ill, there is no repelling it. And there is not for them besides Him any patron. (11)"
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/13:11
The truth is more special than any of us. Not everyone is entitled to it. It is awarded to those who humbled themselves in knowledge and understanding that they are limited and are not absolute but so special that they are not to end up like other non-humans. But I do have to admit, I do hope you'll see the truth for your own good, as to all that read our discussion here. But as they say, we have to let go and let God after we've done our part.
Last words from me, do not deny God as a reason to escape from your conscience of what is right and wrong. It would be a grave intellectual dishonesty on your part.
I wonder have you watched this video? It's not as funny and sarcastic as this blog is, but it involved science, evidence, theories and scientists. I think you will find it interesting, scientifically if not religiously. 1:26 is a golden moment, but you really have to watch it from the beginning to the end, to really appreciate it. Good luck!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ4DzspnHz4&list=PLHKz7qTluGt2dT1Wk_RopZVEy3ltA7hqX
Mon Dec 16, 06:55:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
"Do they await but that Allah should come to them in covers of clouds and the angels [as well] and the matter is [then] decided? And to Allah [all] matters are returned. (210)"
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/2:210
God has already addressed you and your atheistic question, 1,400 years ago.
Mon Dec 16, 07:24:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
So your god is worthless and powerless. Thought so.
Steve Weeks
Tue Dec 17, 04:04:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
"Last words from me, do not deny God as a reason to escape from your conscience of what is right and wrong. It would be a grave intellectual dishonesty on your part."
That's not the reason I "deny god". Actually, I deny the existence of god (*any* god)because there is no plausible evidence for it. There's nothing "intellectually dishonest" about expecting evidence; in fact, accepting things on faith alone is more properly described as intellectual dishonesty.
I watched as much of the long video as I could tolerate... all I can say is it misrepresents the science, especially of evolution.
The scriptural quotations... O_o
Steve Weeks
Tue Dec 17, 01:44:00 PM 2013
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16 November 2013Drunk With Blood: Audiobook preview
Well, we're finally back from our cross-country road trip. I'll put up a few more pictures (I'll even include one of Steve Weeks!) and tell you about our adventures in a later post. Until then, I thought I'd let you preview the first few chapters of the audiobook, which should be available next week at audible.com and iTunes.
Introduction
Genesis
Exodus
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/16/2013 01:38:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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Stephen said...
There's a more recent thread on this, but I bought the audiobook yesterday and put it on my iPod. Had an enjoyable 30-minute listen on the train to work this morning.
Nice work, Steve!
Steve Weeks
Mon Dec 23, 07:39:00 PM 2013
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06 November 2013On the road with the SAB: Palmyra, New York -- the birthplace of Mormonism
After Philip subbed for me at the Magnet Theater in New York City, we headed west toward Palmyra, New York -- the birthplace of Mormonism. We started with a guided tour of the Grandin Printing Shop, where the Book of Mormon was first printed in 1830. Then we toured the Smith family log home and visited the "sacred grove" where Jesus and his father first appeared to the 14-year old Joseph Smith. We finished up by climbing Hill Cumorah, where he dug up the golden plates.
Our tour guide was a nice young woman who tried her very best to convert us. She insisted that we give the Moroni challenge a try in the sacred grove. (This challenge is based on Moroni 10:4, which is the John 3:16 equivalent in Mormonism.) We agreed to do so if she would read Deuteronomy 13:6-10 and explain how a kind and loving God could inspire such a passage. She promised to read it and send us her explanation in an email. I'll let you how that turns out.
So Philip and I took the Moroni 10:4 challenge in the sacred grove.
And here's Philip at the Moroni monument on the top of Hill Cumorah.
Next stop: Mundelein, Illinois.
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/06/2013 07:42:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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Stephen said...
Looks like I may get the chance to meet and break bread with the Wells team!
As for the "challenge", I sometimes tell proselytizers that when I pray for something, I never get it. They always say that it's because I am not a believer. So my challenge for them is this: "Since you *are* a believer, and presumably in the good graces of the deity, why don't you pray for ME to become a believer?"
Since all things are possible if they are sincerely prayed for, this should be a win-win for god. However, if it doesn't happen, there are several possibilities:
1) I am more powerful than god since I can resist his influence,
2) god just really wants me to burn, in which case he's a real dick,
3) the bible lies,
4) god doesn't exist.
I'll go with #4, since it's the most likely. :-)
Steve Weeks
Thu Nov 07, 10:39:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
I often wonder if Joseph Smith was having a little joke on his followers with "Moroni"...
"Moron-I", sort of like Isaac Asimov's "Robot-I".
;-)
Steve Weeks
Thu Nov 07, 02:32:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
My wife and I just spent an enjoyable hour or so with Steve Wells and his sons Philip and Dominic. How good it was to finally meet and find our common ground. Safe travels, Guys!
Steve Weeks
Fri Nov 08, 07:56:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bO363h0qh8#t=255
“The word of Mohammad is a voice direct from nature's own heart - all else is wind in comparison.”
― Thomas Carlyle
Fri Nov 15, 01:23:00 AM 2013
Steve Wells said...
Thanks for the Muhammad (pb&jbuh) spam, srizals. Here's one for you:
"The Prophet ... said, 'I have been preferred over my nation in four things – generosity, courage, abundance of sexual intercourse and great power.' The Prophet, praise and peace be upon him, was a modest person."
From the Ash-Shifa, page 56.
Fri Nov 15, 06:17:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
Steve, I think you are doing a major dis-service to PB&J (may its good fat and tasty carbs ever prosper) here.
If the prophet was a modest person, then atheism is a religion! ;-)
Steve Weeks
Fri Nov 15, 11:46:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
Well, he is the messenger of God, Steve, how these, do you know about them too?
His forgiveness
Hadrat Anas (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that a Jewess came to Allah's Messenger (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) with poisoned mutton and he took of what had been brought to him. (When the effect of his poison were felt by him) he called for her and asked her about that, whereupon she said: I had determined to kill you. Thereupon he said: Allah will never give you the power to do it. He (the narrator) said that they (the Companions of the Holy Prophet) said: Should we not kill her? Thereupon he said: No. He (Anas) said: I felt (the effects of this poison) on the uvula of Allah's Messenger. (Muslim)
It has been narrated on the authority of Hadrat Anas bin Malik (may Allah be pleased with him) that eighty persons from the inhabitants of Makka swooped down upon Allah's Messenger (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) from the mountain of Tan'im. They were armed and wanted to attack the Holy Prophet (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) and his Companions unawares. He (the Holy Prophet) captured them but spared their lives. So, Allah (The Glorified and the Exalted) revealed the verse: "And It is He Who restrained your hands from them and their hands from you in the valley of Makkah after He had given you a victory over them." (48:24) (Muslim)
His trust in Allah (The Glorified and the Exalted)
It has been narrated on the authority of Hadrat Anas (may Allah be pleased with him) that, on the Day of Hunain, Umm Sulaim took out a dagger she had in her possession. Hadrat Abu Talha (may Allah be pleased with him) saw her and said: Messenger of Allah, this is Umm Sulaim. She is holding a dagger. Allah's Messenger (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) asked (her): What for are you holding that dagger? She said: I took it up so that I may tear open the belly of a polytheist who comes near me. Allah's Messenger (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) began to smile (at those words). She said: Messenger of Allah, kill all those people-other than us- whom thou hast declared to be free (on the day of the Conquest of Makka). (They embraced Islam because) they were defeated at your hands (and as such their Islam is not dependable). Allah's Messenger (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) said: Umm Sulaim, Allah is sufficient (against the mischief of the polytheists) and He will be kind to us (so you need not carry this dagger). (Muslim)
http://www.iqra.net/Hadith/sifat.php
Would you have done the same? I mean with all the power and influence that he had.
By the way, it's on page 57, Steve.
Fri Nov 15, 10:25:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
What's your opinion on this one, Steve, could you share with us?
"The first story is set in the immediate aftermath of the surrender of Mecca to Muslim forces in 630 C.E. The Prophet had been born in Mecca in 570 C.E. and had received his first revelations from the Angel Gabriel at the age of 40, calling the Arabs to reject polytheism and embrace the One God of Abraham. His critique of the profitable religious cult in Mecca won him many followers from the poor and oppressed classes, and especially among women, who saw him as a champion of their rights in a word where pre-Islamic Arabs often buried infant girls alive. But his teachings earned him the enmity of the ruling class of Mecca, who showered insults and abuse on his followers for over a decade. Finally, in 622 C.E., the Prophet escaped an assassination attempt and was forced to flee to the oasis of Medina, where his followers survived years of military attacks from Mecca meant to annihilate their community.
And yet Islam continued to grow and spread, as it offered a better, more egalitarian way of life than the Meccan cult that served only the wealthy. Eight years after the Prophet fled his home, the beleaguered Meccans surrendered the city to the Muslims who were now the most powerful group in Arabia. The Prophet returned home as absolute ruler, with no fear of reprisal from any of his enemies. The Meccans feared that he would take vengeance on them for 20 years of vicious attacks. The Prophet certainly could have taken revenge; in the cruel world of desert warfare recorded in the books of Old Testament, no one would have been surprised if he killed all of his opponents. And yet he did something that left his enemies flabbergasted.
He forgave them.
The Prophet declared a general amnesty and offered the leaders of Mecca who had fought him positions of honor in the new Muslim community. And most remarkable of all was how he treated Hind, the cruel queen of Mecca who had desecrated the corpse of the Prophet's beloved uncle Hamza (she had cannibalized Hamza's liver, an act considered barbaric even by her own people). The Prophet forgave Hind and let her go."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kamran-pasha/the-mercy-of-prophet-muhammad_b_1879601.html
Can you name any man you know, then and now with such character?
I know Marquis de Sade, and he was like you. Do you know him, Steve?
Fri Nov 15, 10:54:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
"The Prophet ... would visit all of his wives in the same hour. ... In the matter of sexual intercourse, the Prophet was given the power of forty men. ... Prophet Solomon and David were endowed with the same ability. ... In the loins of Solomon there was the semen of one hundred men." Ash-shifa p.56
Sat Nov 16, 06:33:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
It must be AWESOME to have such a stud as your fearless leader!
Steve Weeks
Sat Nov 16, 10:30:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
What are you getting at Steve? Is it deplorable and morally degrading to have sex with your wife? Is this the basis of morality of atheist? Are you a monk atheist priest wannabe or something? Don't you ever have sex with your wife? Do you have some inferiority regarding of manliness that you envied the duty of a successful man to his wife?
Then I have to wonder how did your parents brought you to this world. Were they not loving and morally upright husband and wife?
Stephen, it is not that awesome to have "half a man" to be anything. Ask the ladies, they know. As a matter a fact, ask your wife.
Sun Nov 17, 06:01:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
Atheists like to ask a lot don't they, but rarely answer. I wonder why? Lacking of peer reviewed research to help them think for themselves, I guess? Oh, well.
Sun Nov 17, 06:18:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
"Jeffrey Dahmer, an infamous serial killer and atheist sentenced to 900 years in prison, said “if a person doesn’t think that there is a God to be accountable to, then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?”. He brutally killed seventeen men and boys, dismembering them, storing their parts and indulging in cannibalism and necrophilia. In 1991, he was caught by the police after one of his would-be victims escaped. Despite pleading not guilty on the basis on insanity, the court found him sane and fully accountable. He later expressed remorse."
http://listverse.com/2010/06/05/10-people-who-give-atheism-a-bad-name/
Atheism is not the way, it lacks in responsibility, respect, love and wisdom. Pol Pot, Stalin, Luka Magnotta, Chin Peng, Mao, aborters of babies from 4 months onwards have something in common. They think they have the right to do anything and won't be accountable to God. Some said, it's political driven not because of atheism. Well, they can keep on fooling themselves. The little red book of Mao would shun anyone to be an atheist.
Or should atheists believed Richard Dawkins that theorised how the gay genes survived the caveman period by seducing their wives/women while the manly caveman went out hunting? Being not that manly, hey, Stephen?
Life is not a theory. It's made of dreams and hope, normal and the paranormal, seen and the unseen, honesty, courage, wisdom, sweat, sacrifices, humanity, practicality and wits, which Atheism is severely lacking.
Atheism is not going anywhere. It is full of baseless emotional "material logical" thinking and theories that cloud it's judgement. It is on a self destruct mode. It always have, it always does. The cult of death that tries to humour itself out of its true existence and meaning by vilifying others. Only those with eyes wide shut would choose to be a believer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHDCAllQgS0
Steve is constantly referring to the book, As Shifa that was published in 2006 to debate me, instead of the Koran and the hadith books, where referencing would be much easier and direct for all of us. I wonder why?
Sun Nov 17, 06:59:00 PM 2013
srizals said...
Another theory, Steve. What's your say? Can you express yourself outside of your writing, Steve? Is Science and theory perfect to be a belief system replacing God?
"Dr Ellis says that while the planet meets humans’ needs for the most part, it does not perhaps serve the species’ interests as well as the aliens who dropped us off imagined.
In his book, HUMANS ARE NOT FROM EARTH: A SCIENTIFIC EVALUATION OF THE EVIDENCE, the ecologist writes the human race has defects that mark it of being ‘not of this world’.
‘Mankind is supposedly the most highly developed species on the planet, yet is surprisingly unsuited and ill-equipped for Earth's environment: harmed by sunlight, a strong dislike for naturally occurring foods, ridiculously high rates of chronic disease, and more,’ he told Yahoo.
Dr Ellis says that humans might suffer from bad backs because they evolved on a world with lower gravity."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2507377/Humans-NOT-come-Earth--sunburn-bad-backs-pain-labour-prove-expert-claims.html#ixzz2kxtQA3lc
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Sun Nov 17, 07:41:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
@srizals- Haha...I asked my wife. She said even if I *were* half a man she'd prefer me to someone who'd be sticking it in multiple women in an hour's time. That's a good way to catch a disease. And not much enjoyment for the women, though you might not know so much about that.
I'd ask how *your* wife feels, but that would be reaching below the belt.
Steve Weeks
Mon Nov 18, 04:01:00 AM 2013
srizals said...
@Stephen -"That's a good way to catch a disease", correct if multiple partners, men and women, both are involved. I've never heard any faithful husbands or wives caught any HPV or HIV before. Unless they went astray out of wedlock. Well, have you?
""But do you mean to tell me that the man who in the full flush of youthful vigour, a young man of four and twenty (24), married a woman much his senior, and remained faithful to her for six and twenty years (26), at fifty years of age when the passions are dying married for lust and sexual passion? Not thus are men's lives to be judged. And you look at the women whom he married, you will find that by every one of them an alliance was made for his people, or something was gained for his followers, or the woman was in sore need of protection."
Annie Besant, The Life and Teachings of Muhammad, Madras 1932, p. 4
http://www.gainpeace.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=63:what-non-muslim-scholars-said-about-prop
Mon Nov 18, 05:08:00 AM 2013
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06 November 2013On the road with the SAB: The Magnet Theater in New York City
Steve was sick, so I filled in. The show will be up next week, but an audience member tagged me in this photo:
Here's the link.
Posted by Philip Wells at 11/06/2013 07:31:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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3 comments:
Stephen said...
Looking forward to listening to the podcast... should be out today IIRC.
Hey, it was great meeting you, your brother and your dad last Friday.
Cheers,
Steve Weeks
Mon Nov 11, 02:08:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
Just listened to the reading. Well done Philip!
Steve Weeks
Wed Nov 13, 03:29:00 PM 2013
Philip Wells said...
Thanks, Steve!
Mon Nov 18, 01:25:00 PM 2013
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01 November 2013On the road with the SAB: Red Top Mountain and A. H. Stephens State Parks
As I mentioned back in August, Skeptic's Annotated Bibles were placed in cottages rented by the Georgia state parks. So since Philip and I were on our way to New York, and since Georgia is (sort of) on the way, we decided to visit the parks that agreed to put SABs next to Gideon Bibles in their cottages.
The first park that we visited was Red Top Mountain. We asked the park ranger if we could view the rooms, and to our surprise, she said OK.
Here is what we found when we opened the drawer next to the bed.
Red Top Mountain state park has eight cottages with an SAB (and a Gideon Bible) in each of the two bedrooms. (We didn't check all of them, but the ranger assured us that there are two in each cottage.)
Our next stop was A. H. Stephens State Historical Park near Crawfordville, Georgia. There are four cottages at the park that were also supplied with SABs. So we stopped at the office and asked the park manager if we could see one of them. He said OK, and, once again, we found an SAB sitting next to a Gideon Bible in each of the two bedroom drawers.
The strangest thing about this very strange affair is that apparently no one has yet commented or complained. I'd have never thought such a thing could happen in Georgia.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The second park that we visited, by the way, is named after Alexander H. Stephens who was the Vice President of the Confederacy. Here's what he had to say about slavery:
Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. (Cornerstone Speech)
Here is his statue by his graveside at the park.
File:Stephens Monument.JPG
Alexander H. Stephens graveside memorial at A. H. Stephens State Park
Next stop: New York City.
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/01/2013 06:45:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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2 comments:
Stephen said...
I have a feeling that no one really looks at bibles in motel rooms except atheists. Bible "enthusiasts" probably have their own copies with them, all dog-eared and well-worn, so they have no interest in other copies.
Steve Weeks
Fri Nov 01, 07:23:00 PM 2013
Yark Hutprancer said...
I know that when I was a Christian, the last thing I wanted to do was crack open that book in the drawer. Law and Order was a thousand times more interesting.
Tue Nov 05, 11:51:00 PM 2013
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29 December 2013114 Bible-based New Year's Resolutions for 2014
The Christian Post has an article suggesting 10 Bible-based New Year's resolutions for 2014. And I think that's a wonderful idea. So wonderful, in fact, that I thought I'd try to help them out with that. Here is a list of 114 ways to apply the Bible to your daily life in 2014.
Get drunk and naked. If your kids happen to see you in that condition, curse their children (your grandchildren) and all of their descendants with slavery.
Noah ... drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent ... And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father ... Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. Genesis 9:20-25
Offer your virgin daughters to a sex-crazed mob of angel rapers.
I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes. Genesis 19:8
Get drunk and impregnate your virgin daughters.
Lot went up ... and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters. And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth: Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father. Genesis 19:30-37
Have sex with someone by mistake.
And Jacob served seven years for Rachel; and they seemed unto him but a few days, for the love he had to her. And Jacob said unto Laban, Give me my wife that I may go in unto her ... And it came to pass in the evening, that he took Leah his daughter, and brought her to him; and he went in unto her ... And it came to pass, that in the morning, behold, it was Leah. Genesis 29:20-25
Buy sex with mandrakes.
And Rachel said, Therefore he shall lie with thee to night for thy son's mandrakes. And Jacob came out of the field in the evening, and Leah went out to meet him, and said, Thou must come in unto me; for surely I have hired thee with my son's mandrakes. And he lay with her that night. Genesis 30:15-16
Have sex with your father's concubine.
Reuben went and lay with his father's concubine. Genesis 35:22
Have sex with your dead brother's wife. (But be sure not to spill it on the ground.)
And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife ... And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground ... And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also. Genesis 38:7-10
Have sex with your dead son's wife. (And then threaten to burn her to death.)
And it was told Tamar, saying, Behold thy father in law goeth up to Timnath to shear his sheep. And she put her widow's garments off from her, and covered her with a vail, and wrapped herself, and sat in an open place, which is by the way to Timnath; for she saw that Shelah was grown, and she was not given unto him to wife. When Judah saw her, he thought her to be an harlot; because she had covered her face. And he turned unto her by the way, and said, Go to, I pray thee, let me come in unto thee; (for he knew not that she was his daughter in law.) And she said, What wilt thou give me, that thou mayest come in unto me? ... And he gave it her, and came in unto her, and she conceived by him. ... And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt. Genesis 38:13-24
Burn to death any whore-like daughters of priests.
And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire. Leviticus 21:9
Eat the flesh of your sons and daughters.
Ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. Leviticus 26:29
And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters. Deuteronomy 28:53
Drink dead people's blood.
Rise up as a great lion ... and drink the blood of the slain. Numbers 23:24
Hang all the heads of the people up before the Lord.
Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away. Numbers 25:4
Thrust a spear through the bellies of an inter-faith couple while they're having sex. (It will stop God from killing people.)
Phinehas ... thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel. Numbers 25:6-9
Kill all the males and non-virgin females, but keep the women children alive for yourselves.
Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. Numbers 31:17-18
Kill your entire family if they believe the wrong things.
If thy brother ... or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods ... Thou shalt not consent unto him ... neither shall thine eye pity him ... But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. Deuteronomy 13:6-13
Have a conversation with your donkey.
And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times? And Balaam said unto the ass... Numbers 22:28-30
Circumcise the foreskin of your heart.
Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart. Deuteronomy 10:16
Rend your clothes. (Then fall on your face and put dust on your head.)
And Joshua rent his clothes, and fell to the earth upon his face before the ark of the LORD until the eventide, he and the elders of Israel, and put dust upon their heads. Joshua 7:6
Put your feet on the necks of kings. (Before killing them.)
Joshua called for all the men of Israel, and said unto the captains of the men of war which went with him, Come near, put your feet upon the necks of these kings. And they came near, and put their feet upon the necks of them. And Joshua said unto them, Fear not, nor be dismayed, be strong and of good courage: for thus shall the LORD do to all your enemies against whom ye fight. Joshua 10:24-25
Hang some dead bodies on trees until evening.
And afterward Joshua smote them, and slew them, and hanged them on five trees: and they were hanging upon the trees until the evening. Joshua 10:26
Deliver a message from God. (A knife blade thrust into a fat man's belly.)
And he brought the present unto Eglon king of Moab and Eglon was a very fat man. ... And Ehud said, I have a message from God unto thee ... And Ehud put forth his left hand, and took the dagger from his right thigh, and thrust it into his belly: And the haft also went in after the blade; and the fat closed upon the blade, so that he could not draw the dagger out of his belly; and the dirt came out. Judges 3:17-22
Kill 600 Philistines with an ox goad.
Shamgar ... slew of the Philistines six hundred men with an ox goad. Judges 3:31
Pound a tent stake through a sleeping man's head.
Then Jael Heber's wife took a nail of the tent, and took an hammer in her hand, and went softly unto him, and smote the nail into his temples, and fastened it into the ground: for he was fast asleep and weary. So he died. Judges 4:21
Put God to the test.
Behold, I will put a fleece of wool in the floor; and if the dew be on the fleece only, and it be dry upon all the earth beside, then shall I know that thou wilt save Israel by mine hand, as thou hast said. Judges 6:36-40
Offer your virgin daughter as a burnt sacrifice to God.
The Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he ... vowed a vow unto the Lord, and said, If thou shalt ... deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, Then ... whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return ... shall surely be the LORD's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering ... The LORD delivered them into his hands ... And he smote them ... even twenty cities ... with a very great slaughter ... His daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances ... Her father ... did with her according to his vow which he had vowed. Judges 11:29-39
Take the shibboleth test.
Then said they unto him, Say now Shibboleth: and he said Sibboleth: for he could not frame to pronounce it right. Then they took him, and slew him at the passages of Jordan: and there fell at that time of the Ephraimites forty and two thousand. Judges 12:6
Kill 30 men for their clothes.
And the Spirit of the LORD came upon him, and he went down to Ashkelon, and slew thirty men ... and gave change of garments unto them which expounded the riddle.Judges 14:19
Get 300 foxes, tie their tails together, and light them on fire.
Samson went and caught three hundred foxes, and took firebrands, and turned tail to tail, and put a firebrand in the midst between two tails. And when he had set the brands on fire, he let them go Judges 15:4-8
Kill 1000 men with the jawbone of an ass.
The spirit of the Lord came mightily upon him ... And he found a new jawbone of an ass and slew a thousand men therewith. Judges 15:14-15
Kill 3000 in a suicide terrorist attack.
Now the house was full of ... about three thousand men and women ... And Samson called unto the LORD, and said, O Lord God .. strengthen me ... that I may be at once avenged of the Philistines for my two eyes ... and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life. Judges 16:27-30
Send a concubine body part message.
And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel. Judges 19:29
Kill everyone in town except the virgin females. (Then give the virgins to the men that survived your previous genocide.)
What one is there of the tribes of Israel that came not up to Mizpeh to the LORD? And, behold, there came none to the camp from Jabeshgilead ... Destroy every male, and every woman that hath lain by man ... They found among the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead four hundred young virgins ... and they gave them [the Benjamites] wives. Judges 21:8-14
Steal 200 dancing virgins.
Then the elders of the congregation said, How shall we do for wives for them that remain, seeing the women are destroyed out of Benjamin? ... We may not give them wives of our daughters: for the children of Israel have sworn, saying, Cursed be he that giveth a wife to Benjamin ... If the daughters of Shiloh come out to dance in dances, then come ye out of the vineyards, and catch you every man his wife of the daughters of Shiloh ... And the children of Benjamin did so, and took them wives, according to their number, of them that danced, whom they caught. Judges 21:16-23
Ask God to smite your enemies with hemorrhoids in their secret parts.
The hand of the LORD was against the city with a very great destruction: and he smote the men of the city, both small and great, and they had emerods in their secret parts. 1 Samuel 5:9
Offer God five golden hemorrhoids (to get him to stop putting hemorrhoids in your secret parts).
What shall be the trespass offering which we shall return to him? They answered, Five golden emerods, and five golden mice. 1 Samuel 6:4-5
Chop up an ox and send the body parts as messages.
And the spirit of God came upon Saul ... and he took a yoke of oxen, and hewed them in pieces, and sent them throughout all the coast of Israel. 1 Samuel 11:6-7
Buy a wife with 200 foreskins.
And Saul said, Thus shall ye say to David, The king desireth not any dowry, but an hundred foreskins of the Philistines ... And when his servants told David these words, it pleased David well ... Wherefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king's son in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife. 1 Samuel 18:25-27
Get naked and prophesy.
And he stripped off his clothes also, and prophesied ... and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Wherefore they say, Is Saul also among the prophets? 1 Samuel 19:24
Sneak in the bathroom and cut off a man's shirt while he's peeing. (Without getting noticed.)
Saul went in to cover his feet ... Then David arose, and cut off the skirt of Saul's robe privily. 1 Samuel 24:3-4
Have a witch bring a dead person back to life.
Divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up ... ... hen said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel ... An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel ... And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? 1 Samuel 28:8-15
Dance naked in front of God and everybody.
And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod ... Michal ... said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself! 2 Samuel 6:14-20
Have public sex with your father's concubines.
Go in unto thy father's concubines, which he hath left to keep the house ... So they spread Absalom a tent upon the top of the house; and Absalom went in unto his father's concubines in the sight of all Israel. 2 Samuel 16:21-22
Take a God (or Satan)-inspired census. (And don't complain when God kills a couple hundred thousand people to punish you for it.)
And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
...
Thus saith the LORD, I offer thee three things; choose thee one of them, that I may do it unto thee. Shall seven years of famine come unto thee in thy land? or wilt thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue thee? or that there be three days' pestilence in thy land? ... So the LORD sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the time appointed: and there died of the people from Dan even to Beersheba seventy thousand men. 2 Samuel 24:1-15
Find a hot young virgin to get you some heat.
Now king David was old and stricken in years; and they covered him with clothes, but he gat no heat. Wherefore his servants said unto him, Let there be sought for my lord the king a young virgin: and let her stand before the king, and let her cherish him, and let her lie in thy bosom, that my lord the king may get heat. So they sought for a fair damsel throughout all the coasts of Israel, and found Abishag a Shunammite, and brought her to the king. And the damsel was very fair, and cherished the king, and ministered to him. 1 Kings 1:1-4
Ask your son to murder some of your enemies for you.
Now the days of David drew nigh that he should die; and he charged Solomon his son, saying ... Thou knowest ... what Joab ... did to me ... let not his hoar head go down to the grave in peace ... Shimei ... cursed me with a grievous curse ... Now therefore hold him not guiltless: for thou art a wise man, and knowest what thou oughtest to do unto him; but his hoar head bring thou down to the grave with blood. 1 Kings 2:1-9
Invite a prophet to dinner. Tell him God wants him to come. Then after he eats dinner with you, God will send a lion to kill him.
Now there dwelt an old prophet in Bethel ... And went after the man of God, and found him ... Then he said unto him, Come home with me, and eat bread ... So he went back with him, and did eat bread in his house, and drank water ... And it came to pass, after he had eaten bread, and after he had drunk, that ... a lion met him by the way, and slew him. 1 Kings 13:11-24
Cut off anyone that pisses against a wall.
(This is one of my wife's resolutions for 2011.)
Behold, I will ... cut off ... him that pisseth against the wall. 1 Kings 14:10
Have an old-fashioned prayer contest. (And kill all the losers.)
Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him ... Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the LORD; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men ... Give us two bullocks; and let them choose one bullock for themselves, and cut it in pieces, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under: and I will dress the other bullock, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under. And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the LORD: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God ... And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made. And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked. And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them ... And Elijah ... built an altar ... And he said ... Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the LORD ... Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench. And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God. And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there. 1 Kings 18:19-40
Gird up your loins.
And the hand of the LORD was on Elijah; and he girded up his loins. 1 Kings 18:46
Ask your neighbor to smite you. If he refuses, God will send a lion to eat him.
A certain man of the sons of the prophets said unto his neighbour in the word of the LORD, Smite me, I pray thee. And the man refused to smite him. Then said he unto him, Because thou hast not obeyed the voice of the LORD, behold, as soon as thou art departed from me, a lion shall slay thee. And as soon as he was departed from him, a lion found him, and slew him. 1 Kings 20:35-36
Prove you're a man of God by burning people to death.
Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty. 2 Kings 1:10
Curse any little children that make fun of you for whatever reason. (God will send bears to rip them to pieces.)
As he [Elisha] was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. 2 Kings 2:23-24
Give someone leprosy (along with all of his or her descendants forever).
And he [Elisha] said unto him ... Leprosy ... shall cleave unto thee, and unto thy seed for ever. And he went out from his presence a leper as white as snow. 2 Kings 5:26-27
Make someone blind.
Elisha prayed unto the LORD, and said, Smite this people, I pray thee, with blindness. And he smote them with blindness according to the word of Elisha.2 Kings 6:18
And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand. Acts 13:11
Ask for 70 sons to be killed, with their heads delivered in two baskets.
He [Jehu] wrote a letter the second time to them, saying ... take ye the heads of the men your master's sons, and come to me to Jezreel by to morrow this time ... They took the king's sons, and slew seventy persons, and put their heads in baskets ... They have brought the heads of the king's sons. And he said, Lay ye them in two heaps at the entering in of the gate until the morning. 2 Kings 10:6-10
Show your zeal for the Lord by murdering the family of a former king.
Come with me, and see my zeal for the LORD ... And when he came to Samaria, he slew all that remained unto Ahab in Samaria, till he had destroyed him, according to the saying of the LORD, which he spake to Elijah. 2 Kings 10:16-17
Ask God to send lions to eat people that don't fear him enough.
They feared not the LORD: thereforethe LORD sent lions among them, which slew some of them. 2 Kings 17:25-26
Wax mighty by marrying 14 wives.Abijah waxed mighty, and married fourteen wives. 2 Chronicles 13:21
Kill anyone who refuses to seek the Lord, whether man or woman, young or old.
Whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman ... and the LORD gave them rest round about. 2 Chronicles 15:13-15
Ask God to make someone's bowels fall out.
The LORD smote him in his bowels with an incurable disease. And ... after the end of two years, his bowels fell. 2 Chronicles 21:18-19
Throw 10,000 people off a cliff.
Amaziah ... did that which was right in the sight of the LORD. ... Ten thousand ... [he] brought ... unto the top of the rock, and cast them down from the top of the rock, that they all were broken in pieces. 2 Chronicles 24:1-12
If you hear about any mingling of holy seed, pluck off your hair and beard, and sit down astonished. Or curse them and pluck off their hair. Your choice.
For they have taken of their daughters for themselves, and for their sons: so that the holy seed have mingled themselves with the people of those lands ... And when I heard this thing, I rent my garment and my mantle, and plucked off the hair of my head and of my beard, and sat down astonished. Ezra 9:2-3
And I contended with them, and cursed them, and smote certain of them, and plucked off their hair, and made them swear by God, saying, Ye shall not give your daughters unto their sons, nor take their daughters unto your sons, or for yourselves. Nehemiah 13:225
Abandon any strange wives or children that you may have.
We have trespassed against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land: Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them ... Ezra the priest stood up, and said unto them, Ye have transgressed, and have taken strange wives ... Now therefore ... separate yourselves ... from the strange wives ... Then all the congregation answered and said with a loud voice, As thou hast said, so must we do. Ezra 10:2-3, 10-12
Wash your feet in the blood of the wicked.
The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked. Psalm 58:10
Hate God-haters with a perfect hatred.
Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? ... I hate them with perfect hatred. Psalm 139:21-22
Pray that God will burn people to death.
Let burning coals fall upon them: let them be cast into the fire; into deep pits, that they rise not up again. Psalm 140:102
Beat the hell out of your children.
He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. Proverbs 13:24
Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying. Proverbs 19:18
Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him. Proverbs 22:15
Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. Proverbs 23:13-14
Cast your bread upon the waters.
Cast thy bread upon the waters: for thou shalt find it after many days. Ecclesiastes 11:1
Make your bowels sound like a harp.
My bowels shall sound like an harp. Isaiah 16:11
Walk around naked and barefoot all year as a sign and a wonder.
At the same time spake the LORD by Isaiah ... saying, Go and loose the sackcloth from off thy loins, and put off thy shoe from thy foot. And he did so, walking naked and barefoot. And the LORD said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder.Isaiah 20:2-3
Suck the breasts of kings.
Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings. Isaiah 60:16
See God's loins (the glory of the Lord) and fall on your face.
And I saw ... the appearance of his loins.... This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face. Ezekiel 1:27-28
Fill your bowels with a roll.
And he said unto me, Son of man, cause thy belly to eat, and fill thy bowels with this roll that I give thee. Then did I eat it; and it was in my mouth as honey for sweetness.Ezekiel 3:3
Lie on your left side for 390 days and then on your right for 40 days.
Lie thou also upon thy left side ... for ... three hundred and ninety days ... And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side ... forty days. Ezekiel 4:4-6
Bake some Ezekiel 4:12 bread.
(It has a secret ingredient left out of Ezekiel 4:9 bread!)
Take thou also unto thee wheat, and barley, and beans, and lentiles, and millet, and fitches, and put them in one vessel, and make thee bread thereof ... And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man. Ezekiel 4:9-12
Shave your head and beard, divide the cut hair into thirds, burn one portion, smite the second about with a knife, and scatter the third in the wind.
And thou, son of man, take thee a sharp knife, take thee a barber's razor, and cause it to pass upon thine head and upon thy beard: then take thee balances to weigh, and divide the hair. Thou shalt burn with fire a third part in the midst of the city, when the days of the siege are fulfilled: and thou shalt take a third part, and smite about it with a knife: and a third part thou shalt scatter in the wind; and I will draw out a sword after them. Ezekiel 5:1-2
Pluck off your own breasts.
Thou shalt ... pluck off thine own breasts: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD. Ezekiel 23:34
Get drunk and uncover your foreskin.
Drink thou also and let thy foreskin be uncovered. Habakkuk 2:16
Spread dung on people's faces.
Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces. Malachi 2:3
Pluck out an eye, cut off a hand, foot, or other body part.
Whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out ... And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. Matthew 5:28-30
If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire. Matthew 18:8-9
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off ... And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off ... And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:43-48
Tell devils and unclean spirits what to do.
He gave them power against unclean spirits. Matthew 10:1
Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils. Luke 9:1
Cast out devils, speak in tongues, handle snakes, drink poison, do some faith-healing.
Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying ... cast out devils. Matthew 10:5-8
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Mark 16:17-18
Join the Tea Party. (Steal from the poor to give to the rich.)
Whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Matthew 13:12, Mark 4:25
Unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. Matthew 25:29
Cast a mountain or sycamore tree into the sea.
Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. Matthew 17:20
That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. Mark 11:23-24
If ye have faith, and doubt not ... if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive. Matthew 21:21-22
If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you. Luke 17:6
Become a eunuch for heaven's sake.
There are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. Matthew 19:12
Abandon your wife and family for Jesus.
Every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. Matthew 19:29
Curse a fig tree.
When he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away. Matthew 21:19
And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. Mark 11:13-14
Stick your fingers in people's ears, spit in their eyes, and touch their tongues.
And he ... put his fingers into his ears, and he spit, and touched his tongue. Mark 7:33
He took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. Mark 8:23
He spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay. John 9:6
Do some impossible things.
All things are possible to him that believeth. Mark 9:23
Walk on snakes and scorpions.
Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Luke 10:19
Hate your family.
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children,and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26
Make water flow out of your belly.
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. John 7:38
Hate your life.
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. John 12:25
Eat Jesus' flesh and drink his blood.
Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life ... For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him ... He that eateth me, even he shall live by me. John 6:53-57
Kill anyone that doesn't obey Jesus.
For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. Acts 3:22-23
Give all your possessions to the church. (Or God will kill you.)
Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost ... And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost. Acts 5:1-10
Kill some animals and eat them.
He [Peter] fell into a trance, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. Acts 10:10-13
In a trance I [Peter] saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me: Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat. Acts 11:5-7
Believe in magic handkerchiefs.
So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them. Acts 19:12
Burn some books.
Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver. Acts 19:19
Obey Obama. (Or go to hell.)
There is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. Romans 13:1-2
Eat everything, especially meat.
(Don't be a wimpy latter-day vegetarian.)
For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Romans 14:2
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils ... commanding to abstain from meats. 1 Timothy 4:1-3
Be persuaded in your own mind.
Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. Romans 14:5
Shun those that believe differently than you.
Mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Romans 16:17-18
Try to know nothing (except for Jesus).
I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. 1 Corinthians 2:2
If you're single, don't get married.
Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. 1 Corinthians 7:7
If you're married, don't have sex.
(Jesus is coming; there's no time for it.)
The time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none. 1 Corinthians 7:7
Shave the head of any women that you catch praying with an uncovered head.
Every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn. 1 Corinthians 11:5-6
If you're ignorant, stay ignorant.
If any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. 1 Corinthians 14:38
Smell good to God.
We are unto God a sweet savour. 2 Corinthians 2:15
Don't look where you're going.
Walk by faith, not by sight. 2 Corinthians 5:7
Greet everyone with a holy kiss.
Greet one another with an holy kiss. 2 Corinthians 13:12
Don't exercise.
Bodily exercise profiteth little. 1 Timothy 4:8
Stop drinking water. Drink wine instead.
Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake. 1 Timothy 5:23
Refresh your bowels in the Lord.
Refresh my bowels in the Lord. Philemon 1:20
Have a Happy New Year!
Posted by Steve Wells at 12/29/2013 09:10:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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24 comments:
polardan said...
Steve, Unlike the Book of Mormon these versus will not go away or be cleaned up. The best we can hope for is that they will be read and reread by believers and raise questions in their minds as to their origins. Overtime some of them like myself will become skeptical. It is a process.
Sat Jan 01, 12:28:00 PM 2011
The Wise Fool said...
Good post.
I think you made a typo on #1. You were thinking of Noah in Genesis 9.
Sat Jan 01, 01:07:00 PM 2011
11-year old Atheist said...
Honestly, I hope that the "Read the Whole Bible" campaigns I've seen will actually succeed. However, it WILL backfire, there will be WAAAAAY more atheists in the world or at least less Christians.
However, I don't think it will work. Believers are to lazy to read the Bible, so they just accept whatever there preachers say, it just as good. Right?
Also, I am sure that's not 39 Bible-based New Year's Resolutions.
--- Bye!
Sat Jan 01, 01:51:00 PM 2011
RsD said...
Well, yeah. Any book is stupid if you read it!
Also, typo at #13. They are. They're.
Sat Jan 01, 02:10:00 PM 2011
Fernando said...
Good ! I will start the new year with these holy resolutions ! Thats for the tips !
Sun Jan 02, 05:45:00 AM 2011
Lynn said...
Steve,
I love these! Thanks!
Mon Jan 03, 02:50:00 AM 2011
skanksta said...
awesome - I'd never even heard of Habukkuk !
A Happy New Year to all the lovers (and haters!) of Steve's blog..
Mon Jan 03, 08:46:00 AM 2011
Dave B said...
Great list! Steve, I just wanted to stop by and wish you a happy new year. Your blog was important to me when I was going through my deconversion from Christianity a few years back. I have calmed down, so I do not participate as much in my or other's blogs any more, but still appreciate the hard work that you continue to do. Thank you!!
Wed Jan 05, 12:19:00 PM 2011
Matthew Beck said...
Looking at these resolutions, I can't help noticing that the Bible sure has an obsession with poeple's bowels. Here's a full list of passages that I found:
And after all this the LORD smote him in his bowels with an incurable disease. And it came to pass, that in process of time, after the end of two years, his bowels fell out by reason of his sickness: so he died of sore diseases. 2 Chronicles 21:18-19
Wherefore my bowels shall sound like an harp for Moab, and mine inward parts for Kirharesh. Isaiah 16:11
And he said unto me, Son of man, cause thy belly to eat, and fill thy bowels with this scroll that I give thee. Then did I eat it; and it was in my mouth as honey for sweetness. Ezekiel 3:3
The bowels of the saints are refreshed by thee, brother. Philemon 1:7
Whom I have sent again: thou therefore receive him, that is, mine own bowels. Philemon 1:12
Refresh my bowels in the Lord. Philemon 1:20
My bowels boiled, and rested not: the days of affliction prevented me. Job 30:27
Maybe you could devote a blog page to bowel references in the Bible.
Thu Jan 06, 09:37:00 AM 2011
Steve Wells said...
Thanks for the bowel list, Matthew. It truly refreshed my bowels in the Lord.
I also added one for Ezekiel 3:3 -- Fill your bowels with a roll.
Thu Jan 06, 10:17:00 AM 2011
11-year old Atheist said...
@Steve Wells I have an idea.
Take a census that will end up killing a lot of people.
2 Samuel 24:1-15
Well, I guess it can't be a 2011 resolution. However, it can be used for 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 etc.
Well, unless the world ends this year.
--- Thanks for reading!
Sun Jan 09, 03:05:00 PM 2011
Steve Wells said...
Hey, that's a good one, 11-year old Atheist. I suppose I should add it to the list. But it is a bit complicated, isn't it? Take a census that God or Satan ask you to do, but then God kills tens of thousands of people because of the census. Does anyone really understand what was supposed to have happened there?
Sun Jan 09, 08:52:00 PM 2011
11-year old Atheist said...
@Steve Wells It was just an idea.
Tue Jan 11, 09:54:00 AM 2011
Steve Wells said...
And a good idea at that, 11YOA. I finally got around to adding it. Thanks!
We might as well keep going until we get to 2011 Bible-based resolutions!
Wed Jan 12, 04:00:00 PM 2011
Fatman said...
Haven't been around for a while, lots of great new things on the blog.
Although I am very unfamiliar with the Mormon religion, so the stupid stuff in the Book of Mormon is not as hilarious as the ridiculous prose in the Bible and Koran which were worshipped where I grew up.
Let us hope that more people see the light (of reason) in 2011.
Mon Jan 24, 12:00:00 PM 2011
11-year old Atheist-Libertarian said...
@Steve Wells I can't see my good idea on this blog post. I can only see 47/113 of the resolutions.
I'm sure it's just a technical error.
Wed Jan 26, 09:04:00 PM 2011
Steve Wells said...
Thanks for letting me know about that, 11yoal. I think it was caused by some stuff that I commented out, which messed up the display on some browsers (like Firefox). Let me know if you don't see 113 now.
Wed Jan 26, 09:40:00 PM 2011
JustJoeP said...
113 is visible. Steve, it is going to be a long night, with a 113 to get through!
@Matthew B - in a pre-medieval world, without any toilet paper, clean water, or refrigeration, one can understand why bathroom habits are a main focus. =P
Mon Dec 31, 04:50:00 PM 2012
JustJoeP said...
Oh - and I am using Apple Safari (Firefox gave me too many problems on a Mac) to be able to see all 113!
Mon Dec 31, 04:51:00 PM 2012
Kat Martin said...
Man it's gonna be a busy year.
Mon Dec 31, 09:12:00 PM 2012
Aquaria said...
Mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Romans 16:17-18
This is the inspiration for making the few remaining Cathars after the Albigensian Crusade wear yellow crosses.
Hilter was obsessed with the Albigensian Crusade, and borrowed the yellow crosses idea for an equally sinister purpose. Except he had undesirables wear their markings before he sent them off to death, not after most of them had been wiped out.
This is why we learn history,
Fri Jan 18, 03:45:00 PM 2013
Aquaria said...
Mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Romans 16:17-18
This is the inspiration for making the few remaining Cathars after the Albigensian Crusade wear yellow crosses.
Hilter was obsessed with the Albigensian Crusade, and borrowed the yellow crosses idea for an equally sinister purpose. Except he had undesirables wear their markings before he sent them off to death, not after most of them had been wiped out.
This is why we learn history,
Fri Jan 18, 03:45:00 PM 2013
discens said...
Dear Mr. Wells, pardon my off-topic, but I would like to know if you have considered to include the section "What the Bible says about..." in future editions of the SAB (of which I already own two copies). For example, it would be very useful to amaze some liberal (in the American sense of the word) Christian friends of mine by showing them that, if we assume that the Bible is the polestar of morality, conservatives are actually right in being homofobic (I am a (mischievous) liberal myself).
Have you also considered translations in other languages? (I am interested in the Italian one, because many fellow countrymen of mine aren't fluent in English, to say the least)
Congratulations for your work(s) and Happy New Year.
Wed Jan 01, 02:11:00 AM 2014
discens said...
Sorry, I have just reread the FAQ section, and I think that that too would be an excellent addition to the paper SAB (especially the part about the "Emperor's New Clothes").
Cheers.
Wed Jan 01, 03:03:00 AM 2014
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27 December 2013The Gospel According to Sarah Palin
I may have misunderstood Sarah Palin's comment in my previous post.
She wasn't confusing First Corinthians with the gospels; she was referring to this statement by Phil Robertson, the one Greta Van Susterennd asked her about:
It seems like, to me, a vagina—as a man—would be more desirable than a man’s anus.
Here is Van Susterend's question:
Do you have any problem about the manners of how he said it. I mean, we don't talk on television much, but if you actually read the article, there's some rather graphic and offensive description of it. ... Do you have any objection on the manners aspect, how he said it?
And here is Palin's answer:
I haven't read the article. I don't know exactly how he said it. But Greta, what he was doing in response to a question about a lifestyle that he disagrees with and yet he has said over and over again he doesn't hate the person engaging in a lifestyle he disagrees with, but he, um, in response was quoting the gospel.
So when Robertson was discussing the male desirability for anuses and vaginas, he was quoting the gospel--the Gospel According to Sarah Palin.
Here's the relevant part of the interview, in case you haven't seen it yet.
Posted by Steve Wells at 12/27/2013 11:00:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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Yark Hutprancer said...
Sarah Palin has one of those brains - like so many people - that is not careful. Someone is "quoting the gospel" if they are saying something that has its roots in the bible. Her brain simply doesn't know the difference between quoting something and agreeing with something. Her brain doesn't work carefully.
And that's why religion persists. Brains that are not careful - brains that loosely estimate, that think fuzzily - accept conclusions handed to them and cling to them without careful thought. And this careless thinking is passed on and on from gen to gen.
Sat Dec 28, 08:40:00 AM 2013
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26 December 2013Sarah Palin: Phil Robertson was quoting the gospel in his GQ interview
In her recent Fox News interview about Duck Dynasty's Phil Robertson, Sarah Palin admitted she hadn't actually read the GQ article (What the Duck) that got him in so much trouble and about which she was being interviewed. Her ignorance on the subject is, no doubt, what qualified her as an expert Fox News contributor.
And although she hadn't read the article, she confidently asserted that Phil Robertson "was quoting the gospel."
But Robertson didn't quote from any of the gospels in his GQ interview--which isn't surprising since there are no nasty anti-gay gospel quotes.
Here is the Bible quote that got Phil Robertson in so much trouble:
Don’t be deceived. Neither the adulterers, the idolaters, the male prostitutes, the homosexual offenders, the greedy, the drunkards, the slanderers, the swindlers—they won’t inherit the kingdom of God.
And here is its source:
Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate,nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners,shall inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Sarah Palin doesn't know the gospels from First Corinthians. Which isn't too surprising. She probably hasn't read them either.
Posted by Steve Wells at 12/26/2013 11:08:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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Stephen said...
I thought Sarah Palin said she read "all of them"... at least that's what she told Katie Couric.
Thanks for pointing out in bullet-proof documentary fashion how these nitwits are trying to (mis-)use scripture for their own purposes.
Steve Weeks
Fri Dec 27, 06:35:00 AM 2013
Jan Kafka said...
Steve Wells seems to have pissed off the Christ himself!
On his vanity forum, Brad Watson, Miami declares: "...I, the Christ, have returned. GOD and I have produced the "book/scroll" of The Revelation 5:1-10:10 and opened the "7 seals" which are explained here as 'beyond Einsten theories'. All our eternal souls pass through time by reincarnation and my soul's last incarnation was as Albert Einstein. 2,000 years ago, I was Y'shua ben Yosef (Jesus son of Joseph)."
http://7seals.yuku.com/forums/66/Public-Forum/Public-Forum#.Ur2fZaymKRN
Today he posted: " Steve Wells (http://DwindlingInUnbelief.blogspot.com ) ,
You're guilty of a really poor edit. Why? So as to use false information to promote your false belief that their is no GOD(7_4), that there was no appearance of God-incarnate (Jesus[74=J10+E5+S19+U21+S19] son of Joseph), and that the Christ doesn't return to "judge everyone according(74) to their actions". Atheists believe in randomness, although chaos theory states, "There is only an appearance of randomness, everything is connect(74)ed, and there are underlying patterns." Atheists believe that there is no afterlife although, science has now proven reincarnation. The law of karma is as real as the law of gravity. Therefore..." Etc.
http://7seals.yuku.com/topic/793/Steve-Wells-militant-atheist-receives-Judgment-Day-122#.Ur2eZ6ymKRM
Fri Dec 27, 07:43:00 AM 2013
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Which bits of the Bible are we still to believe?
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18 December 2013The Drunk With Blood audiobook is finally available on iTunes and Audible
I'm proud to announce that the audiobook version of Drunk With Blood is now for sale!
Audiobook on Audible.com
Audible.com link iTunes link
We've also put up portions of the book for free on Youtube. Here are a few link:
Introduction
Genesis
Exodus
Leviticus
Numbers
Deuteronomy
We'd love to hear what you think. We're planning on using the same narrator for our next book, "Strange Flesh: What the Bible Says about Homosexuality" but depending on the feedback we might go with someone else.
Posted by Philip Wells at 12/18/2013 02:02:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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6 comments:
Yark Hutprancer said...
These are GREAT! Gonna have to buy the audio book. I am addicted. :)
Sat Dec 21, 10:45:00 PM 2013
Philip Wells said...
Thanks, Yark! Glad you like it!
Sun Dec 22, 01:34:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
It's on my iPod now! Almost 10 hours of enjoyable and entertaining listening. Starting tomorrow on the train... I will be trying not to smile.
O Irony! I also have downloaded the Messiah (Chicago Symphony version)... one of my favorites. :-)
Happy Winter Solstice and Merry Christmas!
Steve Weeks
Sun Dec 22, 06:21:00 PM 2013
Sabio Lantz said...
I quoted your book today and referred to your blog -- hope it brings you sales. I was comparing the Killings sanctified in the Bible vs the Mahabharata.
Thu Dec 26, 04:57:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
Hi, Sabio,
I don't know if I'm happy or sad that *my* imaginary god hasn't killed as many as *your* imaginary god!
Cheers,
Steve Weeks
Thu Dec 26, 09:47:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
I'm up to Killing #25 and enjoying the book immensely. The reader is excellent; the only thing annoying about him is the content of the text he's reading... which I guess isn't his fault!
Steve Weeks
Fri Dec 27, 06:31:00 AM 2013
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10 December 2013The LDS church finally admits it was wrong about race. (So it now rejects its own scriptures.)
The LDS church has finally confessed. It admits that it was wrong about race from the church's beginning in 1830 until 1978 when God changed his mind about black people.
Here is what the new document "Race and the Priesthood" says about it:
Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse ... that mixed-race marriages are a sin; or that blacks or people of any other race or ethnicity are inferior in any way to anyone else.
If that is true, then the LDS church disavows the Book of Mormon, which says that God cursed people by blackening their skin, causing them to be "a dark, filthy, and loathsome people," and that any "white and delightsome" person who "mixes seed" with them will be "cursed with the same cursing."
Here are just a few passages in the Book of Mormon that the Mormon church now disavows:
After they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations. 1 Nephi 12:23
He had caused the cursing to come upon them ... wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them. And thus saith the Lord God: I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people ... Cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. 2 Nephi 5:21-23
And the skins of the Lamanites were dark ...which was a curse upon them because of their transgression against their brethren...therefore they were cursed; and the Lord God set a mark upon them. And this was done that their seed might be distinguished from the seed of their brethren, that thereby the Lord God might preserve his people. Alma 3:6-8
This people ... shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people ... because of their unbelief and idolatry ... They were once a delightsome people ... But now, behold, they are led about by Satan. Mormon 5:15-18
In the document, the LDS church tries to blame its racist past on the early 19th century American culture from which it arose. It claims, for example, that it was commonly believed in the early 1800s "that God’s 'curse' on Cain was the mark of a dark skin." And that "[a]ccording to one view, which had been promulgated in the United States from at least the 1730s, blacks descended from the same lineage as the biblical Cain, who slew his brother Abel."
Which is true enough (except for the fact that there was no United States in the 1730s). But what the document doesn't say is that this same view is clearly expressed in its own scripture (The book of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price).
And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them. Moses 7:22
The document also says that "[b]lack servitude was sometimes viewed as a second curse placed upon Noah’s grandson Canaan as a result of Ham’s indiscretion toward his father."
Which is true again. But it is also true that Mormon scripture says the same thing.
There was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people. Moses 7:8
Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth. ... from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land ... Pharaoh ... seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first patriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam, and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood. Abraham 1:21-26
So now the LDS church is no longer just embarrassed by its scriptures, it rejects them entirely.
Now it's time for all Mormons to do likewise.
Posted by Steve Wells at 12/10/2013 02:21:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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10 comments:
Yark Hutprancer said...
Buncha goobers.
Wed Dec 11, 04:09:00 PM 2013
Sabio Lantz said...
Nicely done.
Thanx for the update on the LDS.
Fri Dec 13, 04:50:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
You beat the Richard Dawkins site by 4 days, Steve. Kudos!
(http://www.richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2013/12/14/mormon-church-finally-says-dark-skin-is-not-a-sign-of-god-s-curse# )
Steve Weeks
Sat Dec 14, 04:08:00 PM 2013
Legion of the damned said...
Thanks for the info, just one observation though in the 1730s the United States of America did not exist.
Sun Dec 15, 02:53:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
@ Legion of the damned:
Well, yes, but even the Church of LDS doesn't think that the United States sprang into existence with fully-formed policies and "views" in 1776. That would be too much like... "creation"!
When the LDS document says
"...one view, which had been promulgated in the United States from at least the 1730s..."
they are referring to the geographical (populated) area which subsequently emerged as the United States.
Sun Dec 15, 08:06:00 AM 2013
Steve Wells said...
Thanks for the comment, Legion of the damned. I didn't notice the error in the LDS document until you pointed it out. I've added a note about it in the post.
Mon Dec 16, 10:58:00 AM 2013
Laura Osborne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Wed Dec 18, 05:25:00 AM 2013
Laura Osborne said...
Hey, great blog. I thought you might find this video about New Atheism interesting. Would love to hear your thoughts on the matter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mRPZ_O9bUU
Wed Dec 18, 05:27:00 AM 2013
Sam said...
You are absolutely right to point out this openly contradicts the Mormons' own scripture, which also promises a miraculous skin bleaching if dark skinned folks repent. So they must admit the Book or Mormon is in error on this (long taught) doctrine. So much for God's perfect book.
Sun Dec 22, 05:51:00 PM 2013
M. Carroll said...
The genius, if you will, of the Catholic Church in the past was that it incorporated some local beliefs into their church dogma and rituals. The genius of the LDS is their belief that new revelations can overturn previous ones. But institutions, to pick out just two out of many, are willing to contradict themselves to retain power and control.
Thu Dec 26, 08:21:00 PM 2013
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05 December 2013Smashing little ones against stones: Putting Psalm 137:9 in context
I'm often accused of taking things out of context. And sometimes, I suppose, I'm guilty of that. But generally if I fail to adequately consider the context of a biblical text, the context makes a seemingly bad passage even worse. Psalm 137:9 is a good example.
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. Psalm 137:9
Now, at first sight this verse seems bad enough. How could parents be happy while smashing their children against stones?
But that's not what this verse is about. It's about other "happy" people who will smash Babylonian children. The happy children smashers will be sent by God to "reward" the Babylonians for "serving" (enslaving) the Israelites during the Babylonian captivity, as is made clear by the preceding verse.
O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Psalm 137:8
This is more easily seen in other translations. Here, for example, is this passage in the English Standard Version:
O daughter of Babylon, doomed to be destroyed, blessed shall he be who repays you with what you have done to us! Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock! Psalm 137:8-9 (ESV)
The baby smashers are not only "happy" they are "blessed" -- blessed by God for doing his dirty work for him.
Here is how Matthew Henry explains it in his "Pulpit Commentary" on Psalm 137:9:
Happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us; i.e. happy shall he be that completes thy destruction, and the destruction of thy people. He will be the instrument for carrying out God's vengeance.
The happy and blessed children smashers are God's instruments for carrying out his vengeance.
Context almost always makes the Bible worse.
Posted by Steve Wells at 12/05/2013 03:01:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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3 comments:
NewAtheistNation said...
Thanks for the excellent commentary, Steve. When I need a passage that couldn't possibly have been written by an almighty, all-forgiving god, this is the ghastly passage I use.
Sun Dec 08, 08:45:00 PM 2013
Yark Hutprancer said...
The bible was written by people who hated others and themselves. Respecting it is respecting a product of mental illness.
Wed Dec 11, 04:13:00 PM 2013
Laura Osborne said...
Hi, great blog, I thought you might be interested in a video the Citizen TV Channel Worldbytes has recently made about New Atheism. We would love to hear your comments on this subject. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mRPZ_O9bUU
Wed Dec 18, 06:10:00 AM 2013
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Real men pee standing up
Everybody must get stoned
Where do evil spirits come from?
What does Jesus have written on his testicles?
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Why Christian "Marriage" is Wrong
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The Top 50 Bible Stories for kids
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04 December 2013The two wives of Yahweh: Aholah and Aholibah
There's a strange story in Ezekiel 23 about two sisters, Aholah and Aholibah. It is a story that is seldom told by Bible believers. And that's a shame, since it sheds so much light upon God's biblical plan for marriage.
Aholah and Aholibah were sisters, both of whom were married to Yahweh.
The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother: ... And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister. And they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Ezekiel 23:1-4
But the marriage between God and his two wives was a troubled one. The older sister, Aholah, was unfaithful to Yahweh, having sex with her Assyrian neighbors.
Aholah played the harlot when she was mine; and she doted on her lovers, on the Assyrians her neighbours, Which were clothed with blue, captains and rulers, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding upon horses. 23:5-6
She committed whoredoms with them and defiled herself with all of their idols.
She committed her whoredoms with them, with all them that were the chosen men of Assyria, and with all on whom she doted: with all their idols she defiled herself. 23:7
The Assyrians lay with her and bruised the breasts of her virginity, pouring all their whoredom upon her.
Neither left she her whoredoms brought from Egypt: for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her. 23:8
So Yahweh delivered her into the hands of her Assyrian lovers who discovered her nakedness, enslaved her children, and killed her with the sword.
Wherefore I have delivered her into the hand of her lovers, into the hand of the Assyrians, upon whom she doted. These discovered her nakedness: they took her sons and her daughters, and slew her with the sword. 23:9-10
God’s other wife, Aholibah, was even more corrupt in her whoredoms than her older sister. She also doted upon her desirable, young Assyrian neighbors.
Her sister Aholibah ... was more corrupt in her inordinate love than she, and in her whoredoms more than her sister in her whoredoms. She doted upon the Assyrians her neighbours, captains and rulers clothed most gorgeously, horsemen riding upon horses, all of them desirable young men. Then I saw that she was defiled, that they took both one way. 23:11-13
When she saw the images of Babylonian men on her wall, she invited them to come visit her.
And that she increased her whoredoms: for when she saw men pourtrayed upon the wall, the images of the Chaldeans pourtrayed with vermilion … And as soon as she saw them with her eyes, she doted upon them, and sent messengers unto them into Chaldea. 23:14-16
So the Babylonians came to her on her bed of love, discovered her nakedness and defiled her with their whoredoms.
And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, So she discovered her whoredoms, and discovered her nakedness. 23:17-18a
When God saw all this, his mind was alienated from her, like it was from her sister.
Then my mind was alienated from her, like as my mind was alienated from her sister. 23:18b
Aholibah multiplied her whoredoms like she did in her younger days as a harlot in Egypt.
Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt. 23:19
Where she doted upon men with donkey-sized penises and ejaculate as voluminous as horses.
For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses. 23:20
Which reminded God again of the lewdness of her youth, where the Egyptians fondled her youthful breasts.
Thus thou calledst to remembrance the lewdness of thy youth, in bruising thy teats by the Egyptians for the paps of thy youth. 23:21
To punish Aholibah, God brought lovers against her “on every side.”
Therefore, O Aholibah, thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will raise up thy lovers against thee, from whom thy mind is alienated, and I will bring them against thee on every side. 23:22
And set his jealousy against her, forcing her Egyptian “lovers” to cut off her nose and ears, enslave her children, and burn everyone else to death.
And I will set my jealousy against thee, and they shall deal furiously with thee: they shall take away thy nose and thine ears; and … they shall take thy sons and thy daughters; and thy residue shall be devoured by the fire. 23:25
He forced Ahobiah to drink from Aholah’s cup, to suck it out, and to pluck off her own breasts.
Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou shalt drink of thy sister's cup deep and large: Thou shalt be filled with drunkenness and sorrow ... Thou shalt even drink it and suck it out, and pluck off thine own breasts: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD. 23:34
Then God killed Ahobiah (as he did to Aholah) by stoning her to death and killing her with a sword. Then he killed her children (which are also his children) and burned their houses--to punish them for forgetting him.
Because thou hast forgotten me, and cast me behind thy back, therefore bear thou also thy lewdness and thy whoredoms. 23:35
For thus saith the Lord GOD ... stone them with stones, and dispatch them with their swords; they shall slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire. 23:46-47
In this way taught women a lesson. Don't behave like God's wayward wives (Aholah and Ahobiah) or God will do likewise to you.
Thus will I cause lewdness to cease out of the land, that all women may be taught not to do after your lewdness. 23:48
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, so what can we learn from Yahweh's marriage to Aholah and Ahobiah?
Well, plenty, I'd say. After all it's God's own example.
Here are just a few things that come to mind:
It's OK to have two wives. If it's good enough for God, it's good enough for anyone.
If either of your wives is unfaithful to you, invite everyone over to rape her in public, then cut off her nose and ears, force her to pluck off her breasts, and kill her by stoning or with a sword or (if at all possible) both.
After you kill your wife (or wives) kill any of her children. (Sure some of these kids may be your own sons and daughters, but since your wife was a whore, they might be some other guy's kids. You just can't be too careful.)
Posted by Steve Wells at 12/04/2013 12:40:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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13 comments:
sandchigger said...
Gordon Gano and The Ryan Brothers recorded a great song about this bible story "Oholah Oholibah".
Wed Dec 04, 04:21:00 PM 2013
Matt B said...
Lol. I love the "Five Biblical Purposes for your Marriage" link at the beginning. Rick Warren uses three quotes from the Bible, which are only loosely relevant to marriage imo, and is able to expand them to 1200 words of Biblical "advice". I wouldn't doubt a similar ratio could be found in the "Purpose Driven Life". Can't wait for his diet book!
Thu Dec 05, 05:29:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
Boy, Yahweh was a pretty poor judge of whom to select for his wives... considering he was omniscient!
Also, if he'd been better in the sack, the girls wouldn't have been as likely to look elsewhere. And I'd expect his "package" to be even more impressive than those of the guys they doted on... and how could Yahweh's "issue" be less than mere men?
Rick Warren: "Your ministry is to nobody and your mission is to believers — allowing you to use your marriage as a means for telling others that there's no need for 'His love' to have a good marriage."
There... fixed it for ya!
Steve Weeks
Thu Dec 05, 02:12:00 PM 2013
Peter Wacko said...
Do you know if " and they are mine" is biblical jargon for marriage?
Mon Dec 09, 06:31:00 PM 2013
doobay said...
nice work steve. GIVE THEM THE GOSPEL
Mon Dec 09, 06:53:00 PM 2013
nursemommy4 said...
I thought it was an allegorical tale relating the cities of Samaria and Judah on their nefarious ways.
Tue Dec 10, 07:49:00 AM 2013
Steve Wells said...
Peter and doobay,
Yes, of course, the story in Ezekiel 23 is an allegory. The author was crazy, but probably not crazy enough to believe that all the shit in that chapter actually happened. But it's still a nasty story, however allegorical it might also be.
As for the phrase "they were mine" here's what Howard Eilberg-Schwartz says about it in God's Phallus: "In ... God marrying two sisters (Israel and Judah) who had earlier whored in in Egypt, Ezekiel has God say, 'they became mine, and they bore sons and daughters' (23:4). The birth of children here makes explicit the idea that divine intercourse has occurred with the feminized nations of Israel and Judah."
Tue Dec 10, 10:32:00 AM 2013
Stephen said...
Well, it's pretty clear that god had fathered some children here:
"23:37 That they have committed adultery, and blood is in their hands, and with their idols have they committed adultery, and have also caused their sons, whom they bare unto me, to pass for them through the fire, to devour them."
Steve Weeks
Thu Dec 12, 08:07:00 AM 2013
Lance Williams said...
Don't you think it's a little intellectually dishonest to claim that this is a literal story when you admit yourself it's an allegory?
Thu Dec 19, 02:34:00 PM 2013
Steve Wells said...
Lance said: Don't you think it's a little intellectually dishonest to claim that this is a literal story when you admit yourself it's an allegory?
Hey, it's not my story, Lance, it's God's. And he's proud of it.
God told us a story about his two wives, how they were unfaithful to him (in disgustingly graphic detail), and what he thinks should be done about it (they should be raped, forced to pluck of their own breasts, and killed). Sure, he was trying to make some kind of a point (that everyone in Samaria and Judah should be viciously killed or whatever), but the story tells us a lot about the storyteller. (He's a sick fuck.)
Sun Dec 22, 12:13:00 PM 2013
Stephen said...
Lance, it's nice that you are giving Steve Wells the authority to say whether the bible is allegorical or literal. He's probably not comfortable with that authority, even though it's not yours to give.
Lots of people don't thing the bible is anything but literal truth. If you're one of them, I feel sorry for you. If you think this is allegory, what the heck is it supposed to mean? And why did the authors have tomake their point with such a messed-up (read "fucked-up") scenario?
Steve Weeks
Sun Dec 22, 06:42:00 PM 2013
Sir Artur said...
well written
Tue Dec 24, 03:59:00 AM 2013
Lance Williams said...
Steve, you ignored the point I was making. In your hate for God and your desire to mock him, you present a story as being literal when you yourself state that it wasn't literal. I just think that that is a little dishonest. Regardless of your beliefs and feelings toward religion, some decent intellectual honesty should still be shown, don't you think?
And Stephen, your smart aleck remark doesn't do anything to add to the conversation. It's just very childish. Your actual reply is valid, but the first sentence is useless and immature.
Mon Dec 30, 06:29:00 AM 2013
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30 January 2014Alma 2: Amlici seeks to become king, and Alma puts a stop to it
One of the new challengers to the church was named Amlici. He drew away many followers of the old church, and he even started to consider becoming king himself.
And it came to pass in the commencement of the fifth year of their reign there began to be a contention among the people; for a certain man, being called Amlici, he being a very cunning man, yea, a wise man as to the wisdom of the world, he being after the order of the man that slew Gideon by the sword, who was executed according to the law -- 2.1
Now this Amlici had, by his cunning, drawn away much people after him; even so much that they began to be very powerful; and they began to endeavor to establish Amlici to be king over the people. 2.2
This was concerning for members of the church, because they tended to decide things (somewhat) democratically, and if Amlici got too popular, the people might elect him as king. If he became king, he might destroy their church and do all kinds of bad stuff.
Now this was alarming to the people of the church, and also to all those who had not been drawn away after the persuasions of Amlici; for they knew that according to their law that such things must be established by the voice of the people. 2.3
Therefore, if it were possible that Amlici should gain the voice of the people, he, being a wicked man, would deprive them of their rights and privileges of the church; for it was his intent to destroy the church of God. 2.4
Everyone in town decided to get together and hold an election (their government worked a lot like Canada's--they could call an election at any time). They all told the judges what they thought and then the Judges decided whether or not Amlici should be king.
And it came to pass that the people assembled themselves together throughout all the land, every man according to his mind, whether it were for or against Amlici, in separate bodies, having much dispute and wonderful contentions one with another. 2.5
And thus they did assemble themselves together to cast in their voices concerning the matter; and they were laid before the judges. 2.6
Either Amlici didn't have popular support, or the judges decided that they would rather retain control over the kingdom. Amlici gathered his people together, and declared himself king anyways. Then the Amlicites declared war on the Nephites.
And it came to pass that the voice of the people came against Amlici, that he was not made king over the people. 2.7
And it came to pass that they gathered themselves together, and did consecrate Amlici to be their king. 2.9
Now when Amlici was made king over them he commanded them that they should take up arms against their brethren; and this he did that he might subject them to him. 2.10
The Nephites decided to get ready for battle. They armed themselves (with all kinds of weapons: swords, cimiters [scimitars], bows and arrows, slings, and every other type of weapon, of course. I wonder what else they had!) They appointed captains, and higher captains, and chief captains, and Alma himself led the Nephites into battle.
Therefore the people of the Nephites were aware of the intent of the Amlicites, and therefore they did prepare to meet them; yea, they did arm themselves with swords, and with cimeters, and with bows, and with arrows, and with stones, and with slings, and with all manner of weapons of war, of every kind. 2.12
And thus they were prepared to meet the Amlicites at the time of their coming. And there were appointed captains, and higher captains, and chief captains, according to their numbers. 2.13
And it came to pass that Amlici did arm his men with all manner of weapons of war of every kind; and he also appointed rulers and leaders over his people, to lead them to war against their brethren. 2.14
And it came to pass that the Amlicites came upon the hill Amnihu, which was east of the river Sidon, which ran by the land of Zarahemla, and there they began to make war with the Nephites. 2.15
It was a bloody battle, with lots of deaths on both sides. The Nephites fared much better, though, because God "strengthened their hand". 12,500 Amlicites died, while the Nephites lost only 6500.
Now Alma, being the chief judge and the governor of the people of Nephi, therefore he went up with his people, yea, with his captains, and chief captains, yea, at the head of his armies, against the Amlicites to battle. 2.16
And they began to slay the Amlicites upon the hill east of Sidon. And the Amlicites did contend with the Nephites with great strength, insomuch that many of the Nephites did fall before the Amlicites. 2.17
Nevertheless the Lord did strengthen the hand of the Nephites, that they slew the Amlicites with great slaughter, that they began to flee before them. 2.18
And it came to pass that the Nephites did pursue the Amlicites all that day, and did slay them with much slaughter, insomuch that there were slain of the Amlicites twelve thousand five hundred thirty and two souls; and there were slain of the Nephites six thousand five hundred sixty and two souls. 2.19
The Nephites chased the Amlicites until they couldn't chase them any farther. Then Alma sent a few spies to keep an eye on them, and everyone else pitched camp in the valley of Gideon.
And it came to pass that when Alma could pursue the Amlicites no longer he caused that his people should pitch their tents in the valley of Gideon, the valley being called after that Gideon who was slain by the hand of Nehor with the sword; and in this valley the Nephites did pitch their tents for the night. 2.20
And Alma sent spies to follow the remnant of the Amlicites, that he might know of their plans and their plots, whereby he might guard himself against them, that he might preserve his people from being destroyed. 2.21
Sending the spies to follow the Amlicites was a good idea. It turned out that the Lamanites had already teamed up with the Amlicite army, and they were attacking Nephites in the surrounding villages. The spies told Alma that the huge army was making their way toward their city.
Now those whom he had sent out to watch the camp of the Amlicites were called Zeram, and Amnor, and Manti, and Limher; these were they who went out with their men to watch the camp of the Amlicites. 2.22
And it came to pass that on the morrow they returned into the camp of the Nephites in great haste, being greatly astonished, and struck with much fear, saying: 2.23
Behold, we followed the camp of the Amlicites, and to our great astonishment, in the land of Minon, above the land of Zarahemla, in the course of the land of Nephi, we saw a numerous host of the Lamanites; and behold, the Amlicites have joined them; 2.24
And they are upon our brethren in that land; and they are fleeing before them with their flocks, and their wives, and their children, towards our city; and except we make haste they obtain possession of our city, and our fathers, and our wives, and our children be slain. 2.25
Alma told his people to pack up, and to meet the Amlicite/Lamanite army in battle. The Lamanites must have had a lot of soldiers, because now the army was impossibly large: "As numerous almost, as it were, as the sands of the sea". Almost.
And behold, as they were crossing the river Sidon, the Lamanites and the Amlicites, being as numerous almost, as it were, as the sands of the sea, came upon them to destroy them. 2.27
Still, the Nephites defeated them easily, because the Lord strengthened their hand again. Alma even killed Amlici himself on the battlefield. He almost got the king of the Lamanites, too, but his guards rushed in and saved him.
Nevertheless, the Nephites being strengthened by the hand of the Lord, having prayed mightily to him that he would deliver them out of the hands of their enemies, therefore the Lord did hear their cries, and did strengthen them, and the Lamanites and the Amlicites did fall before them. 2.28
And it came to pass that Alma fought with Amlici with the sword, face to face; and they did contend mightily, one with another. 2.29
And it came to pass that Alma, being a man of God, being exercised with much faith, cried, saying: O Lord, have mercy and spare my life, that I may be an instrument in thy hands to save and preserve this people. 2.30
Now when Alma had said these words he contended again with Amlici; and he was strengthened, insomuch that he slew Amlici with the sword. 2.31
And he also contended with the king of the Lamanites; but the king of the Lamanites fled back from before Alma and sent his guards to contend with Alma. 2.32
But Alma, with his guards, contended with the guards of the king of the Lamanites until he slew and drove them back. 2.33
Despite outnumbering the Nephites, the Lamanite/Amlicite army started retreating, and the Nephites chased them and killed as many of them as they could. They drove them into a land called Hermounts, which was infested with "wild and ravenous beasts".
And it came to pass that when they had all crossed the river Sidon that the Lamanites and the Amlicites began to flee before them, notwithstanding they were so numerous that they could not be numbered. 2.35
And they fled before the Nephites towards the wilderness which was west and north, away beyond the borders of the land; and the Nephites did pursue them with their might, and did slay them. 2.36
Yea, they were met on every hand, and slain and driven, until they were scattered on the west, and on the north, until they had reached the wilderness, which was called Hermounts; and it was that part of the wilderness which was infested by wild and ravenous beasts. 2.37
Apparently piles of bones have been found in the wilderness there. Someone should alert the anthropologists!
And it came to pass that many died in the wilderness of their wounds, and were devoured by those beasts and also the vultures of the air; and their bones have been found, and have been heaped up on the earth. 2.38
Posted by Philip Wells at 1/30/2014 11:49:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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3 comments:
Tim Eisele said...
When I read the Book of Mormon, I was struck by the number of events that lead to massive piles of bodies, that would have been obvious to casual observers centuries later, and I wondered what on earth Joseph Smith was going on about. And then I realized that he must have been trying to explain the structures left by the Mound Builders. Which clearly aren't the remains of battles where there was a massive slaughter, but could have looked that way to somebody who wasn't examining them too closely.
Fri Jan 31, 02:44:00 AM 2014
Stephen said...
Bearing in mind Joseph Smith's penchant for fraud, he might have been co-opting the mounds for his own purposes.
Stsve Weeks
Fri Jan 31, 10:44:00 AM 2014
Matthew Blanchette said...
I hope you've got a running tally of "And it came to pass"es, Steve... ;-)
Mon Feb 03, 08:50:00 PM 2014
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26 January 2014Alma 1: Priestcraft: Whoring and Babbling in the promised land
In Alma's first year as Chief Judge, he had an interesting murder case brought before him. There was a man named Nehor who had started a new church, and his church was getting pretty successful. Many people were believing his words, and some of them were even giving him money, and it sounds like he was buying lots of nice clothes and stuff with it.
Then one day, as he was heading somewhere to preach, he got into a religious fight with a member of the old church named Gideon (Remember him from Mosiah 19?). Nehor killed Gideon with his sword, and then he was brought to Alma for judgement.
And it came to pass that in the first year of the reign of Alma in the judgment-seat, there was a man brought before him to be judged, a man who was large, and was noted for his much strength. 1.2
And he had gone about among the people, preaching to them that which he termed to be the word of God, bearing down against the church; declaring unto the people that every priest and teacher ought to become popular; and they ought not to labor with their hands, but that they ought to be supported by the people. 1.3
And he also testified unto the people that all mankind should be saved at the last day, and that they need not fear nor tremble, but that they might lift up their heads and rejoice; for the Lord had created all men, and had also redeemed all men; and, in the end, all men should have eternal life. 1.4
And it came to pass that he did teach these things so much that many did believe on his words, even so many that they began to support him and give him money. 1.5
And he began to be lifted up in the pride of his heart, and to wear very costly apparel, yea, and even began to establish a church after the manner of his preaching. 1.6
And it came to pass as he was going, to preach to those who believed on his word, he met a man who belonged to the church of God, yea, even one of their teachers; and he began to contend with him sharply, that he might lead away the people of the church; but the man withstood him, admonishing him with the words of God. 1.7
Now the name of the man was Gideon; and it was he who was an instrument in the hands of God in delivering the people of Limhi out of bondage. 1.8
Now, because Gideon withstood him with the words of God he was wroth with Gideon, and drew his sword and began to smite him. Now Gideon being stricken with many years, therefore he was not able to withstand his blows, therefore he was slain by the sword. 1.9
Alma sentenced Nehor to death, because Gideon was a righteous man, and if he didn't, "his blood would come upon us for vengence". Whatever that means.
And thou hast shed the blood of a righteous man, yea, a man who has done much good among this people; and were we to spare thee his blood would come upon us for vengeance. 1.13
Therefore thou art condemned to die, according to the law which has been given us by Mosiah, our last king; and it has been acknowledged by this people; therefore this people must abide by the law. 1.14
They took him to teh top of the hill Manti, and there he confessed that his teachings were against the true God. It sounds a bit like a coerced confession, though, if you read the verse below:
And it came to pass that they took him; and his name was Nehor; and they carried him upon the top of the hill Manti, and there he was caused, or rather did acknowledge, between the heavens and the earth, that what he had taught to the people was contrary to the word of God; and there he suffered an ignominious death. 1.15
So Nehor was gone, but there were many more challengers to the church after him. Alma couldn't just kill them off, though, because they weren't comitting any crimes. They didn't rob, or murder, or even lie. Their doctrines were wrong, but they weren't technically liars, since they claimed to believe in their preaching, and the law couldn't punish a man for his beliefs.
Nevertheless, this did not put an end to the spreading of priestcraft through the land; for there were many who loved the vain things of the world, and they went forth preaching false doctrines; and this they did for the sake of riches and honor. 1.16
Nevertheless, they durst not lie, if it were known, for fear of the law, for liars were punished; therefore they pretended to preach according to their belief; and now the law could have no power on any man for his belief. 1.17
And they durst not steal, for fear of the law, for such were punished; neither durst they rob, nor murder, for he that murdered was punished unto death. 1.18
The new priestcraft order of people started to persecute the old church members. They were calling them names and stuff... It was getting pretty bad. Feelings were getting hurt and no one was apologizing.
Yea, they did persecute them, and afflict them with all manner of words, and this because of their humility; because they were not proud in their own eyes, and because they did impart the word of God, one with another, without money and without price. 1.20
Now this was in the second year of the reign of Alma, and it was a cause of much affliction to the church; yea, it was the cause of much trial with the church. 1.23
Now this was a great trial to those that did stand fast in the faith; nevertheless, they were steadfast and immovable in keeping the commandments of God, and they bore with patience the persecution which was heaped upon them. 1.25
But I guess they just dealt with it. Living well is the best revenge, right? They worked hard, shared with the poor, avoided idleness, and everyone made sure not to flaunt their wealth or wear expensive clothes. Members of the church grew very rich and prosperous, and it sounds like they even created a substantial social safety net-- taking care of both people in the church and out of the church. I hope all of Alma is like this!
And they did impart of their substance, every man according to that which he had, to the poor, and the needy, and the sick, and the afflicted; and they did not wear costly apparel, yet they were neat and comely. 1.27
And thus they did establish the affairs of the church; and thus they began to have continual peace again, notwithstanding all their persecutions. 1.28
And now, because of the steadiness of the church they began to be exceedingly rich, having abundance of all things whatsoever they stood in need -- an abundance of flocks and herds, and fatlings of every kind, and also abundance of grain, and of gold, and of silver, and of precious things, and abundance of silk and fine-twined linen, and all manner of good homely cloth. 1.29
And thus, in their prosperous circumstances, they did not send away any who were naked, or that were hungry, or that were athirst, or that were sick, or that had not been nourished; and they did not set their hearts upon riches; therefore they were liberal to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, whether out of the church or in the church, having no respect to persons as to those who stood in need. 1.30
And thus they did prosper and become far more wealthy than those who did not belong to their church. 1.31
Of course, everyone else in town was either a babbling, idle, thieving, murderer or an envying, lying, robbing sorceress-whore.
For those who did not belong to their church did indulge themselves in sorceries, and in idolatry or idleness, and in babblings, and in envyings and strife; wearing costly apparel; being lifted up in the pride of their own eyes; persecuting, lying, thieving, robbing, committing whoredoms, and murdering, and all manner of wickedness; nevertheless, the law was put in force upon all those who did transgress it, inasmuch as it was possible. 1.32
But all of those people could live on welfare, so it all worked out. At least until the fifth year of the reign of the Judges.
And it came to pass that by thus exercising the law upon them, every man suffering according to that which he had done, they became more still, and durst not commit any wickedness if it were known; therefore, there was much peace among the people of Nephi until the fifth year of the reign of the judges. 1.33
You'll just have to wait to see what happens after that.
Posted by Philip Wells at 1/26/2014 08:44:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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22 January 2014Mosiah 29: The End of Mosiah
Mosiah asked the people who they wanted to be king, and the people answer, "Your son, Aaron!"
Now when Mosiah had done this he sent out throughout all the land, among all the people, desiring to know their will concerning who should be their king. 29.1
And it came to pass that the voice of the people came, saying: We are desirous that Aaron thy son should be our king and our ruler. 29.2
Of course, Aaron couldn't be king because he had already left on his mission (with his three brothers) to convert the Lamanites. None of his sons were willing to accepted the throne, anyways.
Now Aaron had gone up to the land of Nephi, therefore the king could not confer the kingdom upon him; neither would Aaron take upon him the kingdom; neither were any of the sons of Mosiah willing to take upon them the kingdom. 29.3
So Mosiah sent another proclamation to the people. This time he even wrote it down! In it, he explained why they shouldn't have a king, and why they should elect judges instead. You see, a bad king is very hard to dethrone, and they can cause all kinds of trouble (remember king Noah?) Mosiah says that he prefers kings if you can be guaranteed a good one, like king Benjamin, but it's just not worth the risk if you might get a bad one.
Therefore king Mosiah sent again among the people; yea, even a written word sent he among the people. And these were the words that were written, saying: 29.4
Behold, O ye my people, or my brethren, for I esteem you as such, I desire that ye should consider the cause which ye are called to consider -- for ye are desirous to have a king. 29.5
Now I declare unto you that he to whom the kingdom doth rightly belong has declined, and will not take upon him the kingdom. 29.6
And now if there should be another appointed in his stead, behold I fear there would rise contentions among you. And who knoweth but what my son, to whom the kingdom doth belong, should turn to be angry and draw away a part of this people after him, which would cause wars and contentions among you, which would be the cause of shedding much blood and perverting the way of the Lord, yea, and destroy the souls of many people. 29.7
Now I say unto you let us be wise and consider these things, for we have no right to destroy my son, neither should we have any right to destroy another if he should be appointed in his stead. 29.8
And if my son should turn again to his pride and vain things he would recall the things which he had said, and claim his right to the kingdom, which would cause him and also this people to commit much sin. 29.9
And now let us be wise and look forward to these things, and do that which will make for the peace of this people. 29.10
Therefore I will be your king the remainder of my days; nevertheless, let us appoint judges, to judge this people according to our law; and we will newly arrange the affairs of this people, for we will appoint wise men to be judges, that will judge this people according to the commandments of God. 29.11
Now it is better that a man should be judged of God than of man, for the judgments of God are always just, but the judgments of man are not always just. 29.12
Therefore, if it were possible that you could have just men to be your kings, who would establish the laws of God, and judge this people according to his commandments, yea, if ye could have men for your kings who would do even as my father Benjamin did for this people -- I say unto you, if this could always be the case then it would be expedient that ye should always have kings to rule over you. 29.13
And even I myself have labored with all the power and faculties which I have possessed, to teach you the commandments of God, and to establish peace throughout the land, that there should be no wars nor contentions, no stealing, nor plundering, nor murdering, nor any manner of iniquity; 29.14
And whosoever has committed iniquity, him have I punished according to the crime which he has committed, according to the law which has been given to us by our fathers. 29.15
Now I say unto you, that because all men are not just it is not expedient that ye should have a king or kings to rule over you. 29.16
For behold, how much iniquity doth one wicked king cause to be committed, yea, and what great destruction! 29.17
Yea, remember king Noah, his wickedness and his abominations, and also the wickedness and abominations of his people. Behold what great destruction did come upon them; and also because of their iniquities they were brought into bondage. 29.18
And were it not for the interposition of their all-wise Creator, and this because of their sincere repentance, they must unavoidably remain in bondage until now. 29.19
But behold, he did deliver them because they did humble themselves before him; and because they cried mightily unto him he did deliver them out of bondage; and thus doth the Lord work with his power in all cases among the children of men, extending the arm of mercy towards them that put their trust in him. 29.20
And behold, now I say unto you, ye cannot dethrone an iniquitous king save it be through much contention, and the shedding of much blood. 29.21
For behold, he has his friends in iniquity, and he keepeth his guards about him; and he teareth up the laws of those who have reigned in righteousness before him; and he trampleth under his feet the commandments of God; 29.22
And he enacteth laws, and sendeth them forth among his people, yea, laws after the manner of his own wickedness; and whosoever doth not obey his laws he causeth to be destroyed; and whosoever doth rebel against him he will send his armies against them to war, and if he can he will destroy them; and thus an unrighteous king doth pervert the ways of all righteousness. 29.23
And now behold I say unto you, it is not expedient that such abominations should come upon you. 29.24
Therefore, choose you by the voice of this people, judges, that ye may be judged according to the laws which have been given you by our fathers, which are correct, and which were given them by the hand of the Lord. 29.25
Now it is not common that the voice of the people desireth anything contrary to that which is right; but it is common for the lesser part of the people to desire that which is not right; therefore this shall ye observe and make it your law -- to do your business by the voice of the people. 29.26
And if the time comes that the voice of the people doth choose iniquity, then is the time that the judgments of God will come upon you; yea, then is the time he will visit you with great destruction even as he has hitherto visited this land. 29.27
And now if ye have judges, and they do not judge you according to the law which has been given, ye can cause that they may be judged of a higher judge. 29.28
If your higher judges do not judge righteous judgments, ye shall cause that a small number of your lower judges should be gathered together, and they shall judge your higher judges, according to the voice of the people. 29.29
And I command you to do these things in the fear of the Lord; and I command you to do these things, and that ye have no king; that if these people commit sins and iniquities they shall be answered upon their own heads. 29.30
For behold I say unto you, the sins of many people have been caused by the iniquities of their kings; therefore their iniquities are answered upon the heads of their kings. 29.31
And now I desire that this inequality should be no more in this land, especially among this my people; but I desire that this land be a land of liberty, and every man may enjoy his rights and privileges alike, so long as the Lord sees fit that we may live and inherit the land, yea, even as long as any of our posterity remains upon the face of the land. 29.32
Apparently Mosiah actually said much more than is recorded in this chapter. I feel sorry for his scribe.
And many more things did king Mosiah write unto them, unfolding unto them all the trials and troubles of a righteous king, yea, all the travails of soul for their people, and also all the murmurings of the people to their king; and he explained it all unto them. 29.33
And he told them that these things ought not to be; but that the burden should come upon all the people, that every man might bear his part. 29.34
And he also unfolded unto them all the disadvantages they labored under, by having an unrighteous king to rule over them; 29.35
Yea, all his iniquities and abominations, and all the wars, and contentions, and bloodshed, and the stealing, and the plundering, and the committing of whoredoms, and all manner of iniquities which cannot be enumerated -- telling them that these things ought not to be, that they were expressly repugnant to the commandments of God. 29.36
After the people had considered his words, they gave up on the idea of a king. Or maybe his filibuster just wore them out. Either way, they voted for a chief judge "by the voice of the people".
And now it came to pass, after king Mosiah had sent these things forth among the people they were convinced of the truth of his words. 29.37
Therefore they relinquished their desires for a king, and became exceedingly anxious that every man should have an equal chance throughout all the land; yea, and every man expressed a willingness to answer for his own sins. 29.38
Therefore, it came to pass that they assembled themselves together in bodies throughout the land, to cast in their voices concerning who should be their judges, to judge them according to the law which had been given them; and they were exceedingly rejoiced because of the liberty which had been granted unto them. 29.39
They elected Alma as the first chief judge (which was convenient, since he already had all of the seer stones, brass plates and whatnot.)
And it came to pass that Alma was appointed to be the first chief judge, he being also the high priest, his father having conferred the office upon him, and having given him the charge concerning all the affairs of the church. 29.42
Alma was a good Judge.
And now it came to pass that Alma did walk in the ways of the Lord, and he did keep his commandments, and he did judge righteous judgments; and there was continual peace through the land. 29.43
Alma's father, and Mosiah died.
And now it came to pass that his father died, being eighty and two years old, having lived to fulfil the commandments of God. 29.45
And it came to pass that Mosiah died also, in the thirty and third year of his reign, being sixty and three years old; making in the whole, five hundred and nine years from the time Lehi left Jerusalem. 29.46
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And that's it! The end of Mosiah. Next I'll be blogging the book of Alma. I'm shooting for one chapter a day.
Posted by Philip Wells at 1/22/2014 04:57:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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5 comments:
Matthew Blanchette said...
Wow... how much further do you have to go in the ol' Pamphlet of Mormon?
(It's been a long while since I've been here; glad to see you're still truckin'. :-) )
Fri Jan 24, 12:04:00 AM 2014
Stephen said...
Matthew: it's only a pamphlet if you take out all the "And it came to pass..." (Mark Twain)
;-)
Steve Weeks
Fri Jan 24, 12:45:00 PM 2014
Matthew Blanchette said...
Oh, I knew that... ;-)
How much further dost thou have to slog in Joseph Smith's magnum opus?
Fri Jan 24, 02:02:00 PM 2014
Philip Wells said...
Steve and I each have about 60 chapters left to go. I'm trying to get a new chapter done each day, so 2 months at best until we're finished with the rough draft. I'm hoping we can have a book it our hands by December, but we'll see!
Sun Jan 26, 12:51:00 AM 2014
Stephen said...
Thus spake Moroni:
"And it came to pass that Steve and Philip did labor exceedingly and did produce a sequel to the SAB of surpassing excellence. And Lo the people did esteem it greatly save the stiff-necked followers of Joseph Smith who did protest mightily."
/channel Moroni
Steve Weeks
Sun Jan 26, 06:35:00 AM 2014
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21 January 2014Mosiah 28: Mosiah's sons go on a mission
After Mosiah's sons were done preaching to everyone in Zarahemla, they wanted a bigger challenge. They decided to ask the king if they could go to the land of Nephi and preach to the Lamanites.
Now it came to pass that after the sons of Mosiah had done all these things, they took a small number with them and returned to their father, the king, and desired of him that he would grant unto them that they might, with these whom they had selected, go up to the land of Nephi that they might preach the things which they had heard, and that they might impart the word of God to their brethren, the Lamanites -- 28.1
Mosiah's sons had good intentions. They wanted to improve relations with the Lamanites, and they thought that if they only bring the Lamanites knowledge of the Lord that they might all get along. They wanted everyone to be saved, and they were really scared at the idea of anyone being tormented forever in hell. (Who can blame them? If I really believed in hell, I'd quake and tremble too!)
That perhaps they might bring them to the knowledge of the Lord their God, and convince them of the iniquity of their fathers; and that perhaps they might cure them of their hatred towards the Nephites, that they might also be brought to rejoice in the Lord their God, that they might become friendly to one another, and that there should be no more contentions in all the land which the Lord their God had given them. 28.2
Now they were desirous that salvation should be declared to every creature, for they could not bear that any human soul should perish; yea, even the very thoughts that any soul should endure endless torment did cause them to quake and tremble. 28.3
Mosiah didn't know whether or not he should let his sons go on this mission... so he asked God. God gave him a surprisingly straightforward answer: Let them go. They'll do a good job, and I'll protect them.
And king Mosiah went and inquired of the Lord if he should let his sons go up among the Lamanites to preach the word. 28.6
And the Lord said unto Mosiah: Let them go up, for many shall believe on their words, and they shall have eternal life; and I will deliver thy sons out of the hands of the Lamanites. 28.7
So his sons left. Mosiah was reassured by God's words, but he was still nervous about one thing. If his sons were off on the mission, who would succeed him?
And it came to pass that Mosiah granted that they might go and do according to their request. 28.8
And they took their journey into the wilderness to go up to preach the word among the Lamanites; and I shall give an account of their proceedings hereafter. 28.9
Now king Mosiah had no one to confer the kingdom upon, for there was not any of his sons who would accept of the kingdom. 28.10
Now that his sons were gone, Mosiah decided to pick up an old project that he had put off for a while. He started translating the brass plates and the plates of Nephi. His people really wanted to know what had happened to their ancestors, and since his sons were off who knows where and he might be the last true seer in a while, he decided to get to work.
Therefore he took the records which were engraven on the plates of brass, and also the plates of Nephi, and all the things which he had kept and preserved according to the commandments of God, after having translated and caused to be written the records which were on the plates of gold which had been found by the people of Limhi, which were delivered to him by the hand of Limhi. 28.11
And this he did because of the great anxiety of his people; for they were desirous beyond measure to know concerning those people who had been destroyed. 28.12
He used the seer stones that were prepared from the very beginning, passed down from generation to generation and preserved by the hand of the Lord. The two stones were fastened into the two rims of a bow, but it's unclear whether or not he used the Joseph Smith Hat Method.
And now he translated them by the means of those two stones which were fastened into the two rims of a bow. 28.13
Now these things were prepared from the beginning, and were handed down from generation to generation, for the purpose of interpreting languages; 28.14
And they have been kept and preserved by the hand of the Lord, that he should discover to every creature who should possess the land the iniquities and abominations of his people; 28.15
So what did Mosiah learn from the long lost plates? Just about everything. They told the history of his people right back to the very beginning, all of the way to the tower of Babel and even to the creation of Adam. It doesn't get much better than that.
Now after Mosiah had finished translating these records, behold, it gave an account of the people who were destroyed, from the time that they were destroyed back to the building of the great tower, at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people and they were scattered abroad upon the face of all the earth, yea, and even from that time back until the creation of Adam. 28.17
The people, as usual, were both really happy and really sad to hear the story.
Now this account did cause the people of Mosiah to mourn exceedingly, yea, they were filled with sorrow; nevertheless it gave them much knowledge, in the which they did rejoice. 28.18
After Mosiah was done translating, he gave everything to Alma: The plates, the seer stones, all of the records, everything. It looks like we have our new king, ladies and gentlemen! (Although Mosiah didn't want to call him that, as we learn in the next chapter.)
And now, as I said unto you, that after king Mosiah had done these things, he took the plates of brass, and all the things which he had kept, and conferred them upon Alma, who was the son of Alma; yea, all the records, and also the interpreters, and conferred them upon him, and commanded him that he should keep and preserve them, and also keep a record of the people, handing them down from one generation to another, even as they had been handed down from the time that Lehi left Jerusalem. 28.20
Posted by Philip Wells at 1/21/2014 02:50:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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20 January 2014Some Bible Stories for kids
(to help the Bible Society with its new campaign)
The Bible Society announced a new campaign for Christian parents that encourages them to read Bible stories to their kids. And I think that's a great idea.
Here are a few Bible stories to get them started. (I've added links to the Brick Testament stories whenever possible.)
"The sons of God came in unto the daughters of men." Genesis 6:2-4
Angels had sex with women producing giant offspring.
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"All flesh died that moved upon the earth." Genesis 7:21-23
God drowned everything that breathes air. From newborn babies to koala bears -- all creatures great and small, the Lord God drowned them all.
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"Noah ... drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent." Genesis 9:20-25
Noah gets drunk and curses his grandson (and all his descendants) because his son saw him naked.
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"I pray thee, go in unto my maid ... And Abraham harkened unto the voice of Sarah." Genesis 16:2
Abraham impregnates his wife's slave girl.
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"Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes." Genesis 19:1-8
The just and righteous Lot offers his daughters to a sex-crazed mob of angel rapers.
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"Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father." Genesis 19:30-38
Lot gets drunk and impregnates his virgin daughters.
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"Sarah ... said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son ... And God said unto Abraham ... hearken unto her voice." Genesis 21:9-12
Abraham abandons his first son, Ishmael.
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"And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son." Genesis 22:2-13
Abraham shows his willingness to kill his second son, Isaac, for God.
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"Thou must come in unto me; for surely I have hired thee with my son's mandrakes."Genesis 30:16
Leah buy sex with her son's mandrakes.
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"When he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground." Genesis 38:8-10
God killed Onan for ejaculating outside of a vagina.
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"Bring her forth, and let her be burnt." Genesis 38:13-18
Judah has sex with his daughter-in-law and then orders her to be burned to death.
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"The LORD met him, and sought to kill him." Exodus 4:24
God tries to kill Moses. (It had something to do with foreskins.)
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"The LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt." Exodus 12:29-30
God kills all the firstborn Egyptian children. "There was not a house where there was not one dead."
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"Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and ... slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour." Exodus 32:27-28
God forces the people to kill each other for dancing naked around Aaron's golden calf.
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"And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts." Exodus 33:20-23
God shows Moses his backparts.
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"The sons of Aaron ... offered strange fire before the LORD... And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD... And Aaron held his peace." Leviticus 10:1-3
Aaron watched in silence as his sons were burned to death by God.
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"Bring forth him that had cursed out of the camp, and stone him with stones." Leviticus 24:10-23
Moses orders the people to stone to death a man who cursed. "And the children of Israel did as the LORD commanded Moses."
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"When the people complained, it displeased the LORD: and the LORD heard it; and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the LORD burnt among them." Numbers 11:1
God burned people alive for complaining.
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"And while the flesh was yet between their teeth ... the LORD smote the people with a very great plague." Numbers 11:4-33
God sent a great plague on the people for complaining about the food.
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"A man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day." Numbers 15:32-36
God commands the people to stone to death a man who gathered sticks on the Sabbath.
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"And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up." Numbers 16:20-35
Because of a dispute between Korah and Moses, God has the ground open up and swallow Korah, his companions, "and their wives, and their sons, and their little children."
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"And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died." Numbers 21:6
For complaining (again) about the lack of food and water, God sent fiery serpents to bite the people, and many of them died.
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"And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam..." Numbers 22:23-30
Balaam and his donkey have a nice little chat. Apparently, they do this often, since Balaam isn't the least bit surprised when his donkey starts talking to him.
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