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31 January 2010David kills the messenger
The first verse of Second Samuel is this:
Now it came to pass after the death of Saul, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Amalekites, and David had abode two days in Ziklag. 2 Samuel 1.1
That's right. Second Samuel begins with David returning "from the slaughter of the Amalekites." It's hard to see how David could have found any Amalekites to slaughter since Saul killed them all just a little while before (65), but maybe God created some more Amalekites just so David could slaughter them again. He might have. He's the type.
In any case, when David came back from slaughtering Amalekites, a messenger was waiting for him. And who do you think the messenger was? That's right, an Amalekite!
I am an Amalekite. 1.8
The Amalekite told David that when Saul was mortally wounded, he asked him to put him out of his misery. So he did. Then he removed Saul's bracelet and crown and brought them to David.
So I stood upon him, and slew him, because I was sure that he could not live after that he was fallen: and I took the crown that was upon his head, and the bracelet that was on his arm, and have brought them hither unto my lord. 1.10
When David heard this, he and all of his men "rent their clothes" (Bible folks are always doing that).
Then David took hold on his clothes, and rent them; and likewise all the men that were with him. 1.11
David then thanked the Amalekite for his kindness by having one of his "young men fall upon him."
David called one of the young men, and said, Go near, and fall upon him. And he smote him that he died. 1.15 (We know that God approved of this killing because God approved of all of David’s killings, with the single exception of the matter of Uriah. See 1 Kings 15.5.)
God's next killing: David killed Rechab and Baanah, cut off their hands and feet, and hung their bodies over the pool
Posted by Steve Wells at 1/31/2010 03:55:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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10 comments:
Laughing Boy said...
What's wrong with God taking life?
Sun Jan 31, 05:12:00 PM 2010
Robert said...
Hi Laughing Boy,
If we are not in a position to judge God, I suppose we should have no problem when he takes any life for any reason in any way he chooses.
But the truth is we are in a position to judge him ... as soon as he demands worship and allegiance.
Think about it: If we cannot judge God, we cannot judge him to be good, and if we cannot judge him to be good, what use is there saying that he actually is good (i.e. worship) when in fact we can't make that judgement?
Most people are willing to worship a god who takes life, but it must not contradict his goodness. And that is where we have to judge; otherwise, we might end up worshiping an evil (made-up?) god.
So I think judgment on Yahweh's many killings is an important step to genuinely worshiping him. If you (or I) cannot justify the slaughters and yet we worship him, we'd better have a darn good reason. Without a good reason, we might as well put the names of a few dozen gods and devils in the hat, close our eyes and pick one to follow.
My 2 cents.
Sun Jan 31, 10:09:00 PM 2010
matt311 said...
Really? You seriously have to ask that question?
Mon Feb 01, 12:01:00 AM 2010
twillight said...
@Laughing Boy, what's wrong with I taking Your life?
Mon Feb 01, 02:38:00 AM 2010
skanksta said...
Yeah !
Especially Amalekite "life"!
Mon Feb 01, 04:58:00 AM 2010
busterggi said...
What's wrong with god creating life then deciding he hates it & wants it destroyed?
If you can figure that out you'll have your answer.
Mon Feb 01, 05:31:00 AM 2010
Priit said...
1:8 And he said unto me, Who art thou? And I answered him, I am an Amalekite.
31:4 Then said Saul unto his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and thrust me through, and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. Therefore Saul took a sword, and fell upon it.
10:14 And enquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.
My powers of deduction provide one logical scenario whereby all this makes sense. Namely: God, who is an Amalekite, took the form of a sword and mentally influenced Saul to stab himself with it. Brilliant!
Mon Feb 01, 07:34:00 AM 2010
Abeille said...
I miss Brucker
Tue Feb 02, 06:27:00 PM 2010
skanksta said...
I miss Brucker too
Wed Feb 03, 10:28:00 AM 2010
Densol said...
i thought saul was dead when he fell on his own sword, and it says the armor-bearer saw saul is dead, and the statement in the end confirms that saul and his three sons were dead, so this amalekite tells another scenario, so either he lied or the statement on how saul were dead is false??
Sun Feb 28, 01:01:00 PM 2010
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29 January 2010God's Killings in 1 Samuel
Here's a summary of God's killings in 1 Samuel. Killing Event Verse Estimated number killed Cumulative total
1 God killed Eli's sons 4:11 2 2
2 God smote them with hemorrhoids in their secret parts 5:6 3000 3002
3 50,070 killed for looking into the ark of the Lord 6:19 50,070 53,072
4 The Lord thundered with great thunder upon the Philistines 7:10-11 1000 54,072
5 The Ammonite Massacre 11:11 1000 55,072
6 Jonathan's very first slaughter 14:14 20 55,092
7 God forces the Philistines to kill each other 14:20 1000 56,092
8 The Amalekite massacre 15:2-3 10,000 66,092
9 Samuel hacks Agag to pieces before the Lord 15:32-33 1 66,093
10 The Lord said unto David, go and smite the Philistines 23:2-5 1000 67,093
11 The Lord smote Nabal 25:38 1 67,094
12 David spends the day killing Amalekites 30:17 1000 68,094
13 Israelite soldiers killed (to punish Saul for not killing all the Amalekites -- or for not inquiring of the Lord) 31:1 100 68,194
14 Saul and his sons 31:2-4 4 68,198
There are other notable killings in 1 Samuel that involve God in one way or another. I didn't include them in God's killings since it wasn't entirely clear (to me at least) that God was directly involved. Here are a few posts about these killings.
Did God help David kill Goliath?
David bought his first wife with 200 Philistine foreskins
David joined the Philistines and committed random acts of genocide for them
Let me know if I missed any or if I got some of the numbers wrong.
Posted by Steve Wells at 1/29/2010 06:53:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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Where do evil spirits come from?
What does Jesus have written on his testicles?
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29 January 2010God kills Saul, his sons, and his men for not killing all the Amalekites (or was it for not inquiring of the Lord?)
Previously, Saul killed every Amalekite man, woman, child, infant, and baby – just like God told him to. Well, almost anyway. He kept one guy alive: King Agag. And God never forgave him for it.
Because Saul didn’t completely perform God’s commandment (to commit complete genocide on the Amalekites), God repented of making Saul king and gave his kingdom to David.
But that wasn’t the only punishment God had in mind. Now God just needed to find a way to tell Saul about it.
He did it through a dead man (Samuel) who was brought back to life by a witch.
Samuel’s ghost told Saul that tomorrow God would kill Saul and his sons by delivering the Israelite army into the hands of the Philistines.
Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore … the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me [i.e., you and your sons will be dead]: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines. 1 Samuel 28.18-19
Well, I don't know if it was the next day or not but the Philistines attacked and the Israelites "fell down slain in mount Gilboa."
Now the Philistines fought against Israel: and the men of Israel fled from before the Philistines, and fell down slain in mount Gilboa. 1 Samuel 31.1
So that left Saul and his sons. God took care of Saul's sons by having the Philistines kill them. (I know it sounds cruel, but they deserved it since their father saved one Amalekite alive and God told him to kill them all.)
The Philistines followed hard upon Saul and upon his sons; and the Philistines slew Jonathan, and Abinadab, and Melchishua, Saul's sons. 1 Samuel 31.2
Saul must have been especially hard for God to kill, though, because he had to do it four different ways.
Saul committed suicide.
Therefore Saul took a sword, and fell upon it. So Saul died. 1 Samuel 31.4
Then said Saul to his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. So Saul took a sword, and fell upon it. 1 Chronicles 10.4
An Amalekite killed him.
And he [Saul] said unto me, Who art thou? And I answered him, I am an Amalekite. He said unto me again, Stand, I pray thee, upon me, and slay me. So I stood upon him, and slew him. 2 Samuel 1.8-10
The Philistines killed him.
The Philistines had slain Saul. 2 Samuel 21.12
God killed him.
So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; And enquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse. 1 Chronicles 10.13-14
But one way or another, God got the job done, and Saul, his three sons, and who knows how many Israelite soldiers all died -- because God was pissed off at Saul for the incomplete genocide of the Amalekites. Or was it for not inquiring of the Lord? I guess it really doesn't matter, does it? God can kill anyone for any reason, or for no reason at all, and every believer will be OK with it.
(Saul and his three sons were killed along with the Israelite soldiers. Since the Bible doesn’t say anything about how many soldiers were killed, I guessed 100.)
God's next killing: David kills the messenger
Posted by Steve Wells at 1/29/2010 01:52:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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18 comments:
matt311 said...
Nice how you pointed out the many deaths of Saul, Steve, but that last mention of the Amalekites at the end has an extra "a"; might want to fix that...
Fri Jan 29, 04:43:00 PM 2010
Steve Wells said...
Thanks again matt. You're a spellchecker that I can't ignore!
Fri Jan 29, 04:52:00 PM 2010
matt311 said...
Really welcome; my spellchecking, however, pales to your work on this site.
Compared to you, I am but an emerod. :-P
Fri Jan 29, 09:51:00 PM 2010
twillight said...
Now I see what Léo Taxil ment when he said:
"If I'd tell all mistakes, bullshit and any way problematic parts of the Bible, this book - The Amusing Bible - I could never finish."
Sat Jan 30, 12:28:00 AM 2010
busterggi said...
I gotta tell ya it ain't easy.
My landlord has exterminators regularly do the building I'm in and yet we still have Amalekites.
An i'll bet Saul didn't really die, he just came back as Saul of Tarsus in the sequel.
Sat Jan 30, 06:05:00 AM 2010
Robert said...
I think this discrepancy about Saul's many deaths is weak since there are reasonable explanations for the different accounts. (Such as "The Amalekite talking to David could have been lying.") Which discrepancies do you find most disturbing and without a reasonable explanation?
Sat Jan 30, 07:15:00 PM 2010
busterggi said...
Robert: Considering there is no evidence to support any of the four deaths of Saul which do you find most convincing & why?
And does it really matter, at least three must be wrong for a minimum 75% error content.
Sun Jan 31, 08:27:00 AM 2010
Robert said...
Hi busterggi, I'm new here so first let me just clarify that I'm not an inerrantist. It's clear to me now that inerrancy is not a defendable position if one is intellectually honest about the Bible.
As for your question, I think these passages can be harmonized if the Amalekite in 2 Samuel 1 was lying to David about his role in the death of Saul. I won't rehash the lengthy arguments one can find on a number of apologetics web sites except to say that God and the Philistines could have also "killed Saul" even if he literally took his own life during the battle. That's a fair reading of the text in my estimation.
That issue aside, I'm really interested in something else. My bigger question is "Which discrepancies do you find most disturbing and without a reasonable explanation?" Put another way, if you could only present a few Biblical contradictions to a believer that will openly consider the facts, what would you choose?
I am that believer.
Sun Jan 31, 09:25:00 PM 2010
skanksta said...
"Which discrepancies do you find most disturbing..?"
Hmmm...ALL OF THEM !
How about you go back to the start of Steve's (amazing) blog, and read through all of The Brick Testament?
You WILL be disturbed!
"...and without a reasonable explanation?"
None of them.
One simple explanation suffices in all cases.
Anthropology confirms that almost all primitive human cultures have invented religious myths. The religions they invent reflect the limited concerns of the tribe/culture that created them at their particular epoch in history.
Therefore the Old Testament creates a brutal land grabbing warlord, obsessed with power, land, blood sacrifice and domination.
Think about it...
If it was any other way then Mohammed/Koresh/Smith/Jesus/Frum/Baldar/Vishnu (insert your god's right hand man here), would all have holy books that would understand - and even surpass - modern scientific and moral understanding.
Mon Feb 01, 04:53:00 AM 2010
busterggi said...
Check the main site for contradictions, there are hundreds (maybe thousands) to pick from.
Mon Feb 01, 05:33:00 AM 2010
Robert said...
Hi busterggi, I've seen the site and it is a good resource. But the question still remains: Which ones are most damning?
It seems obvious to me that some alleged contradictions are not. Even if you or I believe that the Good Book is full of problems, we have to recognize that not all are created equal. To even mention some of them in a circle of believers would make one look very ignorant about the Bible. But other allegations are bound to make a group of believers stop and think .. if they are willing to do that.
I'm willing to stop and think, but I don't want to waste time with alleged contractions that are easily harmonized. So which ones are most worth my time?
Thanks for your input.
Mon Feb 01, 08:18:00 AM 2010
skanksta said...
How about the contradiction between your model of a compassionate, loving god and the character of Yahweh as described in your holy book.
Pay attention ! Steve is on killing68 with a body count of millions of sufferers....
Mon Feb 01, 11:19:00 AM 2010
Marylynne said...
Hi, Robert,
I get the sense that you feel like you are asking a simple, reasonable question. I wonder if you are frustrated with the seemingly smart-alec replies. To us it isn't a reasonable question. Try to imagine the question "But WHICH argument for leprecauns do you find most unconvincing?"
Also, although this may not be your intent, many of us have been in these kinds of conversations. "Well, if I guess I had to pick one, argument 32 is the worst." "Aha! So you are saying argument 29 might be valid."
I really don't think it is ever a waste of time to stop and think. Look for yourself - now that you've started thinking about it, how can you justify believing any of it when so much of it is contradictory or downright wrong? If you can sort out one contradiction to your satisfaction, does that make the rest OK? I don't know of any Bible verses that say it is OK to pick and choose what you believe.
Fri Feb 05, 11:22:00 PM 2010
Robert said...
Marylynne,
Excellent comment! I was a bit frustrated with the other replies, but what you have said about their perspective makes sense. I'll keep digging.
Mon Feb 08, 03:06:00 PM 2010
skanksta said...
Keep digging, lol !
Robert - seriously - you "were frustrated by the other replies" ?!
HOW ABOUT THE CONTRADICTION BETWEEN YOUR MODEL OF A LOVING GOD AND THE ONE ACTUALLY DEPICTED IN YOUR HOLY BOOK ?
Go back to the start of yahweh's killings and try making an excuse for any of them. Steve is up to murder 75, millions have died, many in abject misery and suffering....
Mon Feb 08, 04:13:00 PM 2010
Souperman said...
How did you get the number of Saul's soldier as 100? That seems like a very small army considering he had thousands go look for David a few chapters earlier.
Sat Feb 05, 02:38:00 PM 2011
Steve Wells said...
Yeah, you're right, Souperman. 100 is probably too small a number. I should probably make it 1000, which is the number I use for typical slaughters. (I use 10,000 for great slaughters.)
Sat Feb 05, 02:53:00 PM 2011
Souperman said...
Yeah, in I Samuel 29:1 it says the Philistines gathered together all their armies to Aphek. Then in
29:2 the lords of the Philistines passed on by hundreds, and by thousands.
It would be a little hard to believe that Saul would attack such a huge force with his sons and only a hundred men. Especially since God has it out for him.
Mon Feb 07, 10:14:00 AM 2011
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A biased sample
A Challenge to Christians
How many has God killed? (Complete list and estimated total)
Islam: It's mostly about going to the bathroom
Blogging the Book of Mormon
50 reasons to be ashamed (and not a fan) of Jesus
Who has killed more, Satan or God?
God's Top 50 Killings in the Bible
Where do evil spirits come from?
David, a man after God's own heart (WWDD?)
The worth of a woman: The Bible vs. the Quran
208 ways to get yourself saved
Real men pee standing up
Everybody must get stoned
Where do evil spirits come from?
What does Jesus have written on his testicles?
Which is more violent, the Bible or the Quran?
Why Christian "Marriage" is Wrong
Is it wrong to burn people to death?
The Top 50 Bible Stories for kids
Which bits of the Bible are we still to believe?
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27 January 2010David spends the day killing Amalekites
While David was hanging out with the Philistines performing daily acts of genocide for them, disaster struck. The Philistines were attacked by the Amalekites.
That's right, the Amalekites. You know, the ones that God hates more than any other people, and that's saying something since God hates everyone except for the Israelites (and he hates them sometimes, too).
How much does God hate the Amalekites? Well, just listen to him.
The LORD hath sworn that the LORD will have war with Amalek from generation to generation. Exodus 17.16
Thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven; thou shalt not forget it. Deuteronomy 25.19
Thus saith the LORD of hosts ... go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. 1 Samuel 15.2-3
So we know for sure that God hates Amalekites. That's why he ordered the Israelites to kill them all. And the Israelites (with God's help, of course) did just that. Twice.
Yet here, just a few years after they were completely killed in two separate God-ordered genocides, they attack the Philistines. I guess sometimes you have to kill people several times to make sure they're not merely dead, but positively, absolutely, undeniably, reliably, and sincerely dead.
What I find especially interesting in this story, though, is that the Amalekites show some mercy to the Philistines. Rather than utterly destroying them, slaying "both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass" as God told the Israelites to do to them, they "slew not any, either great or small, but carried them away, and went on their way."
The Amalekites … slew not any, either great or small, but carried them away, and went on their way. 1 Samuel 30.1-2
Yet the most common excuse that believers give for God's genocidal commands on the Amalekites is that the Amalekites were so evil that they all had to be killed -- even their woman, children, infants, and babies.
When David and his merry men return to Ziklag (the Philistine city that the Amalekites destroyed), they wept until they couldn't weep any longer.
So David and his men came to the city, and, behold, it was burned with fire; and their wives, and their sons, and their daughters, were taken captives. Then David and the people that were with him lifted up their voice and wept, until they had no more power to weep. 1 Samuel 30.3-4
Then they got up and talked about stoning David to death.
David was greatly distressed; for the people spake of stoning him. 1 Samuel 30.6
Meanwhile, David asked a priest to use his ephod to ask God what he should do. (An ephod is sort of a biblical version of a magic eight ball or a coin toss. It only works on yes or no questions.)
David said to Abiathar the priest, Ahimelech's son, I pray thee, bring me hither the ephod. And Abiathar brought thither the ephod to David. And David enquired at the LORD, saying, Shall I pursue after this troop? shall I overtake them? 1 Samuel 30.7-8a
So God said "Heck Yeah. Go kill the Amalekites (one more time) and get back all your stuff."
He answered him, Pursue: for thou shalt surely overtake them, and without fail recover all. 1 Samuel 30.8b
So that's what they did. David and 400 of his men (he left 200 behind because they were just too tired to kill people) spent the day killing Amalekites. They killed them all, except for 400 guys who escaped on camels.
David smote them from the twilight even unto the evening of the next day: and there escaped not a man of them, save four hundred young men, which rode upon camels, and fled. 30.17
So David got back all of his stuff, including his two wives.
David recovered all that the Amalekites had carried away: and David rescued his two wives. 1 Samuel 30.18
And he shared the plunder will his men, even those that were too tired to kill.
David was such a nice guy. I think you can see why God liked him so much.
(The text doesn't say how many Amalekites were killed. I'll just say 1000.)
God's next killing: God kills Saul, his sons, and his men for not killing all the Amalekites
Posted by Steve Wells at 1/27/2010 11:15:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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11 comments:
busterggi said...
For Pets' sake how many times do ALL the Amalikites have to be killed?
They've supposedly been eliminated totally at least twice. Are they all related to Wolverine or something?
Wed Jan 27, 04:29:00 PM 2010
twillight said...
Maybe Amalekites are Highlanders. (And israelites didn't know about the head-thing).
By the way, isn't the "ephod" some kind of a T-shirt? How, and why do you ask a stupid T-shirt of priests?
I always wondered that...
Thu Jan 28, 12:08:00 AM 2010
Mushinronsha said...
Amalekite is Hebrew, but stems from the Latin 'amalgama' that in turn, through Middle French, is the origin of the English word amalgamate - the uniting of different elements; in this case, flesh and metal. The Amalekites were cybernetic organisms - Cyborgs.
So it's no wonder they were dang hard to kill (the original text uses 'terminate' rather than 'kill'). They were more machine than man.
As for their "women" - Fembots. Their "children" - an early form of iPod.
Also there's a missing line in 1 Samuel 30:17:
"And David smote them from the twilight even unto the evening of the next day: and there escaped not a man of them, save four hundred young men, which rode upon camels, and fled."
It then should say "And yea an Amelekite turned in his saddle and said I'll be back."
Just FYI.
Thu Jan 28, 02:56:00 AM 2010
matt311 said...
So... the Amalekites were all killed for being merciful?
Hell, if it's at all possible, I'd rather have them as my pantheon of deities than Mr. Yahweh, considering his idea of "mercy" is to punish people ten to fifteen generations down the line for a minor infraction one of their ancestors committed...
Fri Jan 29, 12:34:00 AM 2010
Tony said...
Is there diminishing returns from killing people for the second and third time?
Fri Jan 29, 05:48:00 AM 2010
Steve Wells said...
twillight,
Yeah, the ephod was some kind of apron or skirt that priests wore. Maybe the Urim and Thuumim were put in the ephod and pulled out to give the magic answer, like pulling a name out of a hat.
Fri Jan 29, 06:08:00 AM 2010
busterggi said...
"Maybe the Urim and Thuumim were put in the ephod and pulled out to give the magic answer, like pulling a name out of a hat."
Well Steve it worked for Joseph Smith
Fri Jan 29, 07:24:00 AM 2010
Not Ms. Fiedler said...
It's worth pointing out, in this connection, that in the Jewish tradition the writings other than the 5 books are not read in their entirety, or in order. (Some schools do teach them in order to the girls, but never to the boys, who aren't really exposed to them much at all.) In the shul, we read only small portions each week, and not at all in order. So we don't notice these things.
Tue Feb 02, 10:59:00 AM 2010
busterggi said...
NMF - consider yourself lucky.
Tue Feb 02, 04:32:00 PM 2010
Kenneth Neal said...
"estimated number killed - 1000"
Are you kidding me!!? This was David and his Mighty Men. To say they were lionlike men would not be an understatement! Even if the Amalekites were scattered so that David and his men would have to take several paces or minutes going from one to the next, they could reasonably be expected to dispatch 1 Amalekite every 5 minutes (this is a conservative estimate). Calculate 5 per minute = 12 per hour x 24 hours x 400 men doing the killing, and you have a more realistic number of over 100,000!
Tue Aug 07, 08:48:00 PM 2012
Steve Wells said...
Yeah, you're probably right, Kenneth. But since the Amalekites were recently completely wiped out, there might not have been that many left to kill.
So I just gave it the usual 1000 for a God-assisted slaughter.
Tue Aug 07, 09:43:00 PM 2012
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26 January 2010God spoke to Saul through a dead man brought back to life by a witch
After David won the trust of the Philistine king, Achish, by happily performing random acts of genocide on the surrounding people, Achish said it was time for him to start killing Israelites. David could hardly wait.
The Philistines gathered their armies together for warfare, to fight with Israel. And Achish said unto David, Know thou assuredly, that thou shalt go out with me to battle, thou and thy men. And David said to Achish, Surely thou shalt know what thy servant can do. 1 Samuel 28:1-2
When Saul saw that the Philistines (along with David) were preparing to attack, he was afraid. He asked God what to do, but God ignored him.
And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets. 1 Samuel 28:6
Since God wouldn't talk to him and Samuel was dead, Saul asked a witch to bring Samuel back from the dead to deliver a message from God.
And God went along with the whole witch-seance-necromancy thing. He repeated the same old stuff about how he took away Saul's kingdom and gave it to David because Saul didn't kill all the Amalekites like he told him to.
The LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David: Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day. 1 Samuel 28:17-18
God also said that he had other punishments planned for Saul. Tomorrow he was going to have the Philistines defeat the Israelites and kill him and his sons.
Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines. 1 Samuel 28:19
So God spoke to Saul through a dead man brought back to life by a witch. And the message was this: I'll have the Philistines kill you and your sons tomorrow because you left one Amalekite alive when I told you to kill them all.
Kind of makes you feel warm all over, doesn't it?
Posted by Steve Wells at 1/26/2010 05:26:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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7 comments:
Baconsbud said...
Ah so it is ok to have a witch use her powers as long as you plan on talking to god. I always thought witches were to be put to death my mistake. Yeah I always find your post fun and entertaining. You do have to admit that when it comes to action type books the OT puts many of the books written today to shame. I just wish people didn't think it was all real and good.
Wed Jan 27, 03:36:00 AM 2010
Brian_E said...
How did David know the woman was a witch? Did she weigh the same as a duck?
Wed Jan 27, 07:08:00 AM 2010
Brian_E said...
Oops, I mean Saul.
Wed Jan 27, 07:09:00 AM 2010
busterggi said...
Perhaps she was a licensed witch.
Wed Jan 27, 08:16:00 AM 2010
vp said...
OT but you may be interested in this news story:
"Bradley Byrne (R) said he believes that "every word is true" in the Bible and that his position was misrepresented in a recent Mobile Press-Register article when he stated "there are parts of the Bible that are meant to be literally true and parts that are not."
http://politicalwire.com/archives/2010/01/26/candidate_insists_bible_is_literally_true.html
Wed Jan 27, 10:01:00 AM 2010
PersonalFailure said...
The more I read the Bible, the more I realize that I should either be a Satanist or a witch, cause they're the ones with the real power!
Wed Jan 27, 11:51:00 AM 2010
matt311 said...
So, the Bible says the witch was from Endor; now, I'm imagining the whole seance shebang, but as performed by an Ewok with the voice of Zelda Rubinstein.
Fri Jan 29, 12:29:00 AM 2010
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25 January 2010Mr. Deity and the Promised Land (The Annotated Version)
A new episode of Mr. Deity is out. I don't want to spoil it for you, so watch it first before reading the rest of this post.
Did you notice all the biblical references? Me too. Here's just a few of the verses that Mr. Deity referred to in this episode.
Utterly destroy
And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them. Deuteronomy 7:2
But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth: But thou shalt utterly destroy them ... as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee. Deuteronomy 20:16-17
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.1 Samuel 15:3
Hailstorms and Sun
And the LORD discomfited them before Israel, and slew them with a great slaughter at Gibeon, and chased them along the way.... And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel ... the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them ...and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword. Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Joshua 10:10-13
War Rape
When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her. Deuteronomy 21:10-14
Posted by Steve Wells at 1/25/2010 01:35:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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5 comments:
Abeille said...
Steve, I like to imagine that you use this ringtone.
Tue Jan 26, 12:02:00 PM 2010
Steve Wells said...
You're right, Abeille. I'd love to use that as my ringtone. Is there a way to get it?
Tue Jan 26, 12:11:00 PM 2010
twillight said...
"...pretty much every god is on board with that..."
Stupid :)
Tue Jan 26, 12:58:00 PM 2010
matt311 said...
Is it just me, or does the guy playing "Mr. Deity" remind anyone of Ray Liotta...?
Fri Jan 29, 12:26:00 AM 2010
isaacwm80 said...
This series is so F'ing brilliant. And not just because it's some of the funniest satirical comedy I've ever watched... but because it's so damn smart and insightful. These guys KNOW what is actually written in the Bible... and they UNDERSTAND what it says about Yahweh. They are certainly atheists, and they know more about Christianity and theology than just about any Christian I've ever known... and I've known some very smart seminary type dudes. The difference is that mr. deity and larry are HONEST about the utterly ridiculous stuff that is recorded in that book, and they get how harmful it is to society. They don't overlook the genocidal, sadistic god that is presented in the Bible.
Every Christian should watch this series, starting from episode one.
Thu Feb 04, 01:03:00 AM 2010
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20 January 2010David commits random acts of genocide for the Philistines
In 1 Samuel 24, David snuck in and cut off Saul's skirt while he (Saul, that is) was defecating. And Saul didn't even notice.
Yeah, well, that worked out so well for David that he decided to try something like it again. This time, though, he snuck into Saul's camp and stole his sword and water jug while Saul was sleeping.
So David and Abishai came to the people by night: and, behold, Saul lay sleeping within the trench, and his spear stuck in the ground at his bolster: but Abner and the people lay round about him … So David took the spear and the cruse of water from Saul's bolster; and they gat them away, and no man saw it, nor knew it, neither awaked: for they were all asleep; because a deep sleep from the LORD was fallen upon them. 1 Samuel 26.7-12
Not nearly as impressive, I'd say. Especially when you consider that "a deep sleep from the LORD was fallen upon them." That sounds like cheating to me.
But Saul went gaga over it, just like he did for David's last trick. Here's what he said when David waved Saul's sword and water jug in front of him.
I have sinned: return, my son David: for I will no more do thee harm, because my soul was precious in thine eyes this day: behold, I have played the fool, and have erred exceedingly. ... Blessed be thou, my son David: thou shalt both do great things, and also shalt still prevail. 26.21- 25
But David still didn't trust Saul, so he decided to join up with the Philistines. And every day he and his men would go out and slaughter people. The Philistine king would ask him, "Hey David, who'd you slaughter today" and he'd say, "Oh the south of Judah, or the Jerahmeelites, or the Kenites, or the Geshurites, or the Gezrites, or the Amalekites, or the Egyptians."
And David and his men went up, and invaded the Geshurites, and the Gezrites, and the Amalekites ... even unto the land of Egypt. ... And Achish said, Whither have ye made a road to day? And David said, Against the south of Judah, and against the south of the Jerahmeelites, and against the south of the Kenites. 27.8-10
He was a killing machine. Every day he slaughtered thousands of people for the Philistines. And he killed everyone: women, children, babies, the aged, the sick, the poor. Everyone.
And David saved neither man nor woman alive. 27.11
So the Philistine king, Achish, loved David because David killed Israelites along with everybody else.
And Achish believed David, saying, He hath made his people Israel utterly to abhor him; therefore he shall be my servant for ever. 27.12
(David brags about at least six genocides in 1 Samuel 27.8-10. So I’ll add another 60,000 to the total, 10,000 for each genocide.)
God's next killing: David spends the day killing Amalekites
Posted by Steve Wells at 1/20/2010 09:33:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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twillight said...
Don't forget that jug wasn't just keeping water. It was a potty! And we all know what Elohim said about toileting in a war-camp. So that was prime evidence against Saul.
On the second part: it seems obvious. The biblegod doesn't care for "my poeple" and "other people". What "he" cares is genocide. Genocide is good. The more you commit the better. That's the message of the Bible.
Wed Jan 20, 10:52:00 AM 2010
Amelia said...
How do you come up with God believes Genocide is good. The ten commandments tell you not to kill, it's a sin and God hates anything sinful.
God cares about every single person on this earth. A single soul is worth more than everything in the world combined. "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"
I'm just curious, what do you believe happened to all the people in Haiti who passed away? Where are the going to spend eternity?
Wed Jan 20, 01:51:00 PM 2010
busterggi said...
Its all part of the mysterious plan Yahweh has.
Wed Jan 20, 03:15:00 PM 2010
Steve Wells said...
Amelia,
"How do you come up with God believes Genocide is good."
I don't believe that God believes that genocide is good. I don't believe that God believes anything at all. Imaginary beings have no beliefs; they are atheists.
"I'm just curious, what do you believe happened to all the people in Haiti who passed away?"
Nothing. They died, Amelia. Not a single one survived his or her death. Death is final; that's why life is so precious.
Wed Jan 20, 03:59:00 PM 2010
twillight said...
Amelia, there is no ten commandment. Or at least noone know what they are. In the part the Bible would tell "the" ten commandment are actually hundred+ "commandments".
Also you refer to something out of context. Right after the "ten commandment" are parts commanding genocide towards some 6 nations, killing raped women, killing homosexual men etc. etc. etc., and now these stories what Steve writes posts and so on.
About "caring": from what it seems Yahwe cares to murder each and every human by himself. YOU shall not kill - until he commands. If he do not commands, then he do it himself.
Now about the Haiti-earthquake: the biblegod DOESN'T EXIST, never did, never will. Earthquakes are natural things, and Haiti is famous built above a crack, so when you live there you take that risk volunteerly (more or less). Also Haiti is way overpopulated. And because it is overpopulated is poor. (Unfortunatelly things turn overpopulated when you're poor, but that's another question.)
So everything happened on Haiti was predictable, and not surprising at all for me. I even say: if they'd be less, less dead. Also if they'd be less, the more money to spend on more stable houses = even less dead.
About the question of "spending eternity": they are dead. See? Dead. They aren't "spending eternity" anywhere. They are dead. Decomposing. Dead. They are no longer living, so no longer coscious, so they aren't "they" anymore. They are dead.
BUT if you ask me what to do with Haiti, according to the Bible: their soul are in Sheol, where all dead are, except those who go to heavens. And the biblegod cared for them this way: "he" is almighty, so HE is responsible for everything. HE made them poor, HE made them starving, HE made them overpopulated, HE put them above a crack of the Earth, HE started the earthquake, HE MURDERED THEM.
That's how your god cares.
Wed Jan 20, 04:03:00 PM 2010
matt311 said...
Wow. I don't think I've ever heard of this story before, even before I left the Church.
David with the Philistines? The fuck? Let's see Handel try and make an oratorio out of that, suckas...
Wed Jan 20, 04:42:00 PM 2010
Robert Rand said...
"They are dead. Decomposing. Dead. They are no longer living, so no longer coscious, so they aren't "they" anymore. They are dead."
Isn't that a line from a Monty Python sketch?
He's kicked the bucket, he's shuffled off his mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin choir invisible! This is an ex-Haitian!
Thu Jan 21, 01:04:00 PM 2010
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Everybody must get stoned
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What does Jesus have written on his testicles?
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19 January 2010Some suggested verses for the U.S. Military's Jesus Guns
If you haven't already seen this ABC report on the Bible verses inscribed on U.S. Military rifle scopes, then be sure to take a look. (I'd embed the video here, if I could figure out how to do it.)
Here's what Rachel Maddow had to say about it.
Anyway, it turns out that a major military supplier, Trijicon, has been putting secret bible codes on their scopes for years, and no one (except all the soldiers who call them "Jesus guns" and batshit crazy gun nuts) ever seemed to notice.
I'm trying to find out all the verses that are put on the Trijicon sights, but so far I've only found two: 2 Corinthians 4:6 and John 8:12.
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 2 Corinthians 4:6
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. John 8:12
But the ABC report says there are other verses on the sights from Matthew and Revelation. If you find out what they are, let me know and I'll add them here and at the SAB.
In the meantime I'd like to suggest a few verses to inscribe on the scopes. They seem more fitting than the wussy quotes from 2 Corinthians and John.
For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies ... he hath delivered them to the slaughter. Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. Isaiah 34:2-3
And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung. Zephaniah 1:17
Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth. Ezekiel 39:18
The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked. Psalm 58:10
That thy foot may be dipped in the blood of thine enemies, and the tongue of thy dogs in the same. Psalm 68:23
And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine. Isaiah 49:26
Cursed be he that keepeth back his sword from blood. Jeremiah 48:12
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee. Ezekiel 25:17, Pulp Fiction version (Thanks Benita)
I bet sootch00 would just love to own a gun with Is49:26 on it. And all the non-Christians could well, you know, get over it..
Posted by Steve Wells at 1/19/2010 10:42:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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7 comments:
matt311 said...
Well...
This is... fucking stupid of them.
Tue Jan 19, 02:03:00 PM 2010
Abeille said...
Pulled directly from their website:
http://www.trijicon.com/about.cfm
*Morality
We believe that America is great when its people are good. This goodness has been based on biblical standards throughout our history and we will strive to follow those morals.
Tue Jan 19, 02:34:00 PM 2010
busterggi said...
Now what did Dubya say about Iraq being a crusade again?
Believers won;t be happy until they wipe out humanity.
Tue Jan 19, 04:21:00 PM 2010
Benita said...
What about Ezekial 25:17? The way Jules (Samuel L. Jackson) said it in Pulp Fiction? Those are some fightin' words!! :)
Wed Jan 20, 06:52:00 AM 2010
Steve Wells said...
Thanks Benita! I've added it to the list.
Wed Jan 20, 01:09:00 PM 2010
Albatross said...
Update!
The company has agreed to stop supplying the military with Bible verse inscribed equipment, and will provide kits to remove the inscriptions from the scopes already out there.
Of course, the damage has been done, and will cause internal strife between Christian and non-Christian soldiers.
Thu Jan 21, 03:24:00 PM 2010
Ginger Renee said...
well well, the king of peace must be soooo proud
Mon Jan 25, 10:54:00 AM 2010
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19 January 2010God killed Nabal (and David got his wife and other stuff)
After God's last killing, David tracked down Saul and snuck in while Saul was "covering his feet" (the biblical equivalent of "going to the bathroom") and cut off end of Saul's skirt.
This feat impressed Saul so much that he said:
Thou art more righteous than I ... And now, behold, I know well that thou shalt surely be king. 1 Samuel 24:17-20
And I suppose that I'd be pretty impressed too, if someone cut off my shirttail or something with a sword while I was doing my business without me even noticing.
After David's amazing bathroom caper, he hung out "in the wilderness" with a gang of outlaws. While there, he heard about a rich man named Nabal and decided to send ten of his "young men" to pay him a visit. So they went and introduced themselves to Nabal and told him to give them whatever he owned.
Give, I pray thee, whatsoever cometh to thine hand unto thy servants, and to thy son David.1 Samuel 25:8
But Nabal was on to their protection racket. He refused to give his belongs to people he didn't even know just to get them to go away and leave him alone.
And Nabal answered David's servants, and said, Who is David? and who is the son of Jesse? there be many servants now a days that break away every man from his master. Shall I then take my bread, and my water, and my flesh that I have killed for my shearers, and give it unto men, whom I know not whence they be? 1 Samuel 25:10-11
When David heard about it, he swore he'd kill Nabal and all of his men (everyone that pisses against a wall).
So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall. 1 Samuel 25:22
Meanwhile, Nabal's wife, Abigail, decided to go visit David and try to smooth things over a bit. She brought lots of food and wine.
Then Abigail made haste, and took two hundred loaves, and two bottles of wine, and five sheep ready dressed, and five measures of parched corn, and an hundred clusters of raisins, and two hundred cakes of figs, and laid them on asses. 1 Samuel 25:18
And the bribe worked. David said that he no longer planned to kill every last swinging dick (those that piss against the wall).
For in very deed, as the LORD God of Israel liveth, which hath kept me back from hurting thee, except thou hadst hasted and come to meet me, surely there had not been left unto Nabal by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall. 1 Samuel 25:34
Abigail returned home and found that Nabal was partying with his friends, celebrating his freedom from David's extortion. She waited until he woke up the next morning (since he was too drunk the night before) to tell him what had happened. (That she gave David a huge bribe to keep him from killing Nabal and his men.) Then Nabal had a stroke or heart attack and was paralyzed. About ten days later, God killed him.
And it came to pass about ten days after, that the LORD smote Nabal, that he died. 1 Samuel 25:38
When David heard that Nabal was dead,
He said, Blessed be the LORD ... And David sent and communed with Abigail, to take her to him to wife. 1 Samuel 25:39
So God killed Nabal and David got his wife along with all his other stuff.
(Actually he got two new wives, Abigail and Ahinoam, along with five other "damsels". But Saul gave away his first wife to some other guy. So, for those keeping score, I guess he gained seven wives and lost one. I don't know what happened to all the wall pissers.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God's next killing: David commits random acts of genocide
Posted by Steve Wells at 1/19/2010 09:32:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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matt311 said...
So... God kills Nabal just to score David some sweet women? WTF?
Also, does anyone else notice that "Nabal" spelled backwards is "Laban"? Coincidence?
Tue Jan 19, 02:00:00 PM 2010
busterggi said...
I love Judeo-Christian family values!
Tue Jan 19, 04:23:00 PM 2010
Steve Wells said...
I guess that right, matt. God killed Nabal so he could get him some more hot women and other cool stuff. But we should ask a believer, just to be sure. If there are any around anymore. (I really miss their explanations for the Bible stories.)
Tue Jan 19, 04:40:00 PM 2010
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18 January 2010Jon Stewart finds a few good Bible verses
I'm sure you've heard the latest crazy thing that Pat Robertson has said: that the earthquake in Haiti was a punishment from God for the slave revolt of 1791 in which the Haitian slaves made a pact with the devil.
You've probably also seen Jon Stewart's reaction.
After showing the Robertson video clip, Stewart got out a jumbo edition of the Bible and said:
Look how big your book is!
As if the Bible were filled with good, comforting verses for the devastated people of Haiti. He even found and quoted four verses from four different translations of the Bible.
The LORD is close to the brokenhearted; he rescues those who are crushed in spirit. Psalm 34:18
Fear thou not; for I [am] with thee: be not dismayed; for I [am] thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness. Isaiah 41:10
Thou who hast made me see many sore troubles wilt revive me again; from the depths of the earth thou wilt bring me up again. Psalm 71:20
Though the mountains be shaken and the hills be removed, yet my unfailing love for you will not be shaken nor my covenant of peace be removed," says the Lord, who has compassion on you. Isaiah 54:10
And in a way, Jon Stewart and his staff should be commended for this. Because although the Bible is indeed a very big book, it is not a very good one. So it's not easy to find good stuff in the Bible, no matter what translation you use.
It's much easier to find verses that support Pat Robertson's position. God killed millions of people in the Bible for all kinds of stupid reasons or for no reason at all. And he enjoyed every minute of it.
God sent a flood to drown people, smashed them with burning stones, burned them to death for complaining, sent fiery serpents to bite them, bears to rip up their children, forced family and friends to kill each other, and gave people hemorrhoids in their secret parts. And that's just a small sample of God's killings. He is proud of each and every one of them.
Here's what he has to say about them:
I kill ... I wound ... I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh. Deuteronomy 32:39-42
If God exists, he sent the earthquake on the people of Haiti. And he did it for a reason that is every bit as stupid as the one that Pat Robertson came up with. (Someone spilled his seed on the ground, had inter-racial sex, danced naked around a golden calf, picked up some sticks on the sabbath, complained about the lack of food and water, made fun of a bald-headed preacher, had a census of some kind, burned the wrong kind of incense, believed in the wrong god, had the wrong parents, was born in the wrong country, or made a pact with the devil.)
It's true, of course, that Pat Robertson is full of shit. But the shit that he's full of is the Bible, the whole Bible, and nothing but the Bible. It should be exposed for what it is instead of trying to cover it up with a few good verses and a swipe at Rachel Maddow.
Posted by Steve Wells at 1/18/2010 05:50:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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matt311 said...
Well, at least he was trying to show what Pat Robertson should have said...
...right?
Mon Jan 18, 08:10:00 PM 2010
S. Molina said...
I think you might of missed the point. Stewart wasn't trying to prove the bible is a good book.
Big fan of your blog, keep it up
Mon Jan 18, 10:42:00 PM 2010
Steve Wells said...
You might be right about that S. Molina. But it seems to me that Stewart was trying to show that the Bible is filled with good stuff, so how could Pat Robertson come up with such crazy, nasty stuff (like God was punishing the Haitians for making a pact with the devil)?
Mon Jan 18, 10:56:00 PM 2010
Baconsbud said...
I like the way Jon does this. Yes he should have shown that what Pat was saying could be justified then said the verses he did say. I figure it was done the way it was to protect the show from attack from other media outlets and select groups that doesn't want the population to know how evil the bible really is.
Tue Jan 19, 01:32:00 AM 2010
Fleegman said...
Ok, serious question. No, really.
See, I've always wondered (because - shocker - the Bible doesn't make it clear) if God was upset because Onan spilled his seed on the ground, or because he disobeyed God's commandment to impregnate his dead brother's wife.
Since this is such an important distinction (given how much they look down on masturbation), I'm surprised it's not a bit more clear cut than that.
I would submit that it doesn't say masturbation is bad, it says disobeying God is bad.
No?
Tue Jan 19, 05:15:00 AM 2010
Mike aka MonolithTMA said...
Personally, I got choked up when I saw Jon Stewart read those verses. Why is it that a comedian can show more compassion than a preacher who supposedly represents a religion of love?
Tue Jan 19, 05:20:00 AM 2010
Steve Wells said...
Fleegman,
I'm not sure what pissed off God so much when Onan spilled his seed on the ground. The Bible just says that God killed him; it doesn't say why. It's always hard to know why imaginary gods do the crazy things that they do.
Tue Jan 19, 06:57:00 AM 2010
busterggi said...
You're absolutely right Steve, if Yahweh wanted Onan's sister-in-law to get pregnant he should have done it himself.
Heck, at least she wasn't a 12 year old virgin (or is that why Yahweh wasn't interested in her?).
Tue Jan 19, 04:25:00 PM 2010
Not Ms. Fiedler said...
I have always thought that story seems to be more about messing around with inheritance laws than about masturbation. Religions have seized on it, of course, for social engineering purposes.
Wed Feb 03, 11:41:00 AM 2010
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16 January 2010The LORD said unto David, Go, and smite the Philistines
After David bought Saul's daughter (Michal) with 200 Philistine foreskins, Saul told his son Jonathan and all his servants to kill his new son-in-law.
Saul spake to Jonathan his son, and to all his servants, that they should kill David. 1 Samuel 19:1
But Jonathan "delighted much in David" and talked his dad out of it.
But Jonathan Saul's son delighted much in David … And Jonathan spake good of David unto Saul his father, and said unto him, Let not the king sin against his servant, against David. 19.2-4
So Saul swears he won't kill David.
Saul hearkened unto the voice of Jonathan: and Saul sware, As the LORD liveth, he shall not be slain. 19.6
Then David went out and slaughters some more Philistines.
David went out, and fought with the Philistines, and slew them with a great slaughter. 19:8
After David returned from the “great slaughter,” the evil spirit from the Lord came upon Saul again, while he sat in his house with his javelin and David played with his hand.
And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand. 19.9
Saul threw his javelin at David again, but shucks, he missed again!
Saul sought to smite David even to the wall with the javelin: but he slipped away out of Saul's presence, and he smote the javelin into the wall: and David fled, and escaped that night. 19.10
(I guessed that 10,000 Philistines died in this “great slaughter.”)
God's next killing: Nabal
Posted by Steve Wells at 1/16/2010 07:40:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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matt311 said...
How the hell can you rob a threshing floor? Were the Philistines stealing the chaff of the wheat? That's not a crime; they were probably starving!
What an asshole, this God.
Sat Jan 16, 10:10:00 PM 2010
busterggi said...
I hope he didn't smite the ones whose foreskins he had already cut off. I'd consider them already smitten.
Seriously, I expect his priests read goat entrails or some other traditional method to communicate with Yahweh. Much more dependable than tweeting.
Sun Jan 17, 07:03:00 AM 2010
Puny Human said...
I was going to say that it was probably more like how George W and Pat Robertson talk to god, then I remembered that King David probably didn't really exist.
word verification: immuse
how immusing
Sun Jan 17, 11:05:00 AM 2010
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15 January 2010Is Saul among the prophets?
I know, I'm getting bogged down in 1 Samuel, completely distracted from God's killings. But there's so much crazy shit in this book that I just can't pass it up. Sorry about that.
So back to the story.
After David bought Saul's daughter (Michal) with 200 Philistine foreskins, Saul told his son Jonathan and all his servants to kill David. But Jonathan "delighted much in David" and talked his dad out of it. So Saul swears he won't kill David.
Then David went out and slaughters some more Philistines.
David went out, and fought with the Philistines, and slew them with a great slaughter. 1 Samuel 19:8
Meanwhile, God sent another evil spirit to torment Saul as he sat in his house with his spear, while David played with his hand.
And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand. 1 Samuel 19:9
You can probably guess what happened next. Saul threw his spear at David, trying to pin him to the wall. (When God's evil spirit comes upon Saul he either throws a spear at David or prophesies.)
And Saul sought to smite David even to the wall with the javelin: but he slipped away out of Saul's presence, and he smote the javelin into the wall. 1 Samuel 19:10
But Saul missed again and David fled to his house. Saul told his servants to go to David's house and kill him, but Michal lowered him out the window in a basket, while putting an idol with a goat skin pillow in bed to fool Saul's servants.
After his escape, David went to Ramah to hang out with Samuel. But Saul found out where he went so he sent messengers to capture him.
When the messengers arrived, they found David, Samuel, and everyone else prophesying. Then the Spirit of God came upon the messengers, too, and they began to prophesy.
And Saul sent messengers to take David: and when they saw the company of the prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as appointed over them, the Spirit of God was upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied. 1 Samuel 19:20
When Saul heard about this, he sent more messengers, and when they arrived, they all began prophesying, too!
And when it was told Saul, he sent other messengers, and they prophesied likewise. 1 Samuel 19:21a
So Saul sent more messengers. Guess what happened to them.
And Saul sent messengers again the third time, and they prophesied also. 1 Samuel 19:21b
Finally Saul gets tired of this shit and goes himself. Here's how that turned out.
And he went thither to Naioth in Ramah: and the Spirit of God was upon him also, and he went on, and prophesied. 1 Samuel 19:23
Yeah, that's right. The Spirit of God came upon Saul and he prophesied too.
In fact, he not only prophesied, but he took off his clothes and laid around naked all night long in front of God and everybody.
And he stripped off his clothes also, and prophesied before Samuel in like manner, and lay down naked all that day and all that night. 1 Samuel 19:24a
And that is why you often hear people say, "Is Saul among the prophets?"
Wherefore they say, Is Saul also among the prophets? 1 Samuel 19:24b
So I just had to tell you this story. God wanted you to know. That's why he put it in the Bible.
But I still can't figure it out. Is Saul among the prophets?
Posted by Steve Wells at 1/15/2010 11:29:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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skanksta said...
Don't worry about getting 'bogged down' Steve, your blog is a joy whatever you're covering and you're helping to disseminate the word of yahweh after all!
Re: your second question, the other day...
I was watching a football (soccer), match in my local pub, when Liverpool got knocked out of the cup by a lower league team.
The question on everyone's lips was, "is Benitez (their coach) getting sacked in the morning?"
About half the replies were, "does a bear shit in the woods?" and the other half were heard to say, "Is the pope catholic?"
No one said, "is Saul also amongst the prophets!?"
I realise this is not truly a scientific survey, but it seems - at least where I am - that the bible is wrong ! People DON'T still use the expression 'is Saul also amongst the prophets?' to this day!
Are there any other inaccuracies in this book, d'ya think ?
Sat Jan 16, 03:04:00 AM 2010
twillight said...
Is Saul among the prophets?
Well, most certainly. Not. Yes. Definitly. See?
Sat Jan 16, 12:55:00 PM 2010
matt311 said...
Quick correction, Steve; "Then David wnet out and slaughters some more Philistines"? Looks like you transposed some of the letters, there...
Also, for some reason, I'm imagining David squeezing soap in his hands to make music when you say he "played with his hand"; rather a silly image, I'd warrant.
Sat Jan 16, 08:53:00 PM 2010
Steve Wells said...
Thanks, matt. I don't know how I miss stuff like that.
As for David playing with his hand, well, that's what the KJV always says. I don't know what it means, but I like the way it sounds.
Sat Jan 16, 09:32:00 PM 2010
matt311 said...
As do I, Steve; as do I. ;-)
Sun Jan 17, 06:33:00 PM 2010
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13 January 2010David buys a wife with 200 Philistine foreskins
After David killed Goliath, Saul's son, Jonathan, fell in love with him.
The soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. 1 Samuel 18.1
He loved him so much, in fact, that he stripped off all his clothes and gave them, along with his bow and sword, to David.
Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and to his bow, and to his girdle. 18.4
Of course, Jonathan wasn't alone in this. Everyone loved David because he behaved so wisely.
David ... behaved himself wisely: and Saul set him over the men of war, and he was accepted in the sight of all the people, and also in the sight of Saul's servants. 18.5
One day when David was returning from slaughtering Philistines, the young women from all the cities of Israel came to greet him. They danced and sang a song that went like this:
Saul hath slain his thousands, and David his ten thousands. 18.7
Saul didn't like the song, though, because he, like God, was proud of his killings. So it pissed him off when the dancing girls praised David for killing ten times more than him.
Saul was very wroth, and the saying displeased him; and he said, They have ascribed unto David ten thousands, and to me they have ascribed but thousand. 18.8
So Saul was after David from that day forward.
Saul eyed David from that day and forward. 18.9
Anyway, the next thing you know God's evil spirit is back and is all over Saul again. And guess what he did this time: he prophesied. (That's what happens when an evil spirit from God comes upon you.)
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied ... and David played with his hand. 18.10
While Saul prophesied under the influence of God's evil spirit, "David played with his hand" and Saul tried to kill him by throwing a spear at him. Twice. But he got away.
Saul cast the javelin; for he said, I will smite David even to the wall with it. And David avoided out of his presence twice. 18.11
Since Saul couldn't kill David with his spear, he figured the next best thing would be to give David his oldest daughter as a wife.
Saul said to David, Behold my elder daughter Merab, her will I give thee to wife. 18.17
But David refused to take her.
David said unto Saul, Who am I … that I should be son in law to the king? 18.18
So he tried another daughter, Michal, who like everyone else "loved David." But David refused her, too.
Michal Saul's daughter loved David: and they told Saul, and the thing pleased him. And Saul said, I will give him her … And Saul commanded his servants, saying, Commune with David secretly, and say … be the king's son in law … And David said, Seemeth it to you a light thing to be a king's son in law, seeing that I am a poor man, and lightly esteemed? 18.20-23
Finally Saul came up with a deal that David just couldn't refuse. He offered to sell Michal for 100 Philistine foreskins.
Saul said, Thus shall ye say to David, The king desireth not any dowry, but an hundred foreskins of the Philistines. 18.25
And this "pleased David well."
And when his servants told David these words, it pleased David well. 18.26
He was so pleased, in fact, that he got a bit carried away and paid twice the asking price.
Wherefore David arose and went … and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king's son in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife. 18.27
After David paid Saul the 200 foreskins, Saul knew for sure that "the Lord was with David." (How else could David get so many foreskins?)
And Saul saw and knew that the LORD was with David. 18.28
God's next killing: The LORD said unto David, Go, and smite the Philistines
Posted by Steve Wells at 1/13/2010 08:08:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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11 comments:
Clint Burky said...
haha, doing my daily read of my subscriptions through google reader, and as I cam to your post I had to just start laughing.
I think we need a foreskin to currency converter, we could be on an untapped gold mine here :-P
Wed Jan 13, 02:39:00 PM 2010
busterggi said...
So what did Saul want those foreskins for? A bathing cap?
Wed Jan 13, 04:35:00 PM 2010
matt311 said...
Maybe they were a delicacy in Biblical times...
...either that, or the writers were just high on horseshit; both are equally viable explanations for this craziness.
Thu Jan 14, 12:15:00 AM 2010
Robert Rand said...
One of my favorite Bible stories from Sunday School...
Thu Jan 14, 06:15:00 AM 2010
Andrew said...
"Now that's a cute song, isn't it? ... Maybe Tim Minchin could sing it for us. "
Handel beat him to it by about 270 years - here's a chorus from his oratorio "Saul":
Welcome, welcome, mighty king!
Welcome all who conquest bring!
Welcome David, warlike boy,
Author of our present joy!
Saul, who hast thy thousands slain,
Welcome to thy friends again!
David his ten thousands slew,
Ten thousand praises are his due!
Thu Jan 14, 08:44:00 AM 2010
Steve Wells said...
Thanks, Andrew. I didn't know that Handel wrote a an oratorio named Saul based on 1 Samuel. I'm going to have to read that!
Thu Jan 14, 09:36:00 AM 2010
twillight said...
Now this really got absurd.
"Since Saul couldn't kill David with his spear, he figured the next best thing would be to give David his oldest daughter as a wife."
"Finally Saul came up with a deal that David just couldn't refuse. He offered to sell Michal for 100 Philistine foreskins."
This is just ridiculous.
Thu Jan 14, 02:22:00 PM 2010
Leor said...
"And Saul saw and knew that the LORD was with David."
That probably means that god helped David both circumcise AND kill the philistines.
If I'm right, it ads 200 to Jehova's total.
Talk about a cruel god.
Fri Jan 15, 05:18:00 AM 2010
busterggi said...
By the way Steve, is selling one's daughter for a bag of foreskins one of those family values that the bible is supposed to teach us?
Cuz if it is i don't get it.
Fri Jan 15, 06:46:00 AM 2010
Steve Wells said...
Yeah, you're probably right, Leor. The Bible says that the Lord was with David when he killed the 200 Philistines (to get their foreskins to pay for Saul's daughter). But since it isn't explicit, I'll just call it a God-approved killing.
Fri Jan 15, 07:55:00 AM 2010
Antoine said...
Maybe Saul just wanted David to convert 100 people, and get their foreskin as proof, but David cheated and took the easy way.
Sat Jan 23, 05:04:00 AM 2010
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10 January 2010In the valley of Ellah: Goliath
After Samuel cried all night and tore his skirt over Saul's incomplete genocide, he finished the job the next day by hacking Agag to pieces before the Lord.
But God and Samuel were still upset by the whole thing. It broke their little hearts. After all, God told Saul to kill all the Amalekites, and Saul saved one guy alive, along with some animals he planned to sacrifice to God later on. (How would you feel if you told someone to commit genocide and then they went and left one person alive?)
Samuel never saw Saul again (not with his clothes on, anyway – See 1 Samuel 19.24), but "mourned" for him. And God repented of making Saul king.
Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel. 1 Samuel 15.35
So God and Samuel found another king, someone who would gladly kill anyone at any time for any reason, a man after God's own heart: David.
I'm going to skip the details about how God and Samuel selected David so I can get on with the story at hand. But since the same pair (God and Samuel) that conspired to produce the Amalekite massacre selected David as king, you know it was a good selection!
When Samuel anointed David as king, the Spirit of the Lord came on David and it was with him for the rest of his life. At the same time, of course, the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul and was replaced by an evil spirit from God, as required by the first law of spiritual thermodynamics.
Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him ... and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. ... But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. 16.13-14
This dastardly evil spirit from God caused Saul lots of problems. And only one thing seemed to help: David and his harp.
David came to Saul, and stood before him: and he loved him greatly ... And Saul sent to Jesse, saying, Let David, I pray thee, stand before me; for he hath found favour in my sight. And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him. 16.21-23
And now we finally get the the story I'm supposed to be telling. The one you already know. David and Goliath.
It begins with a Philistine named Goliath, who was a big guy, even by NBA standards. At 6 cubits and a span, he would have been about 3 meters (nearly 10 feet) tall.
There went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span. 17.4
Goliath had a plan to limit the smiting that was always going on between the Philistines and the Israelites -- a fair fight between two guys: him and whomever the Israelites chose.
He stood and cried unto the armies of Israel, and said unto them, Why are ye come out to set your battle in array? am not I a Philistine, and ye servants to Saul? choose you a man for you, and let him come down to me. If he be able to fight with me, and to kill me, then will we be your servants: but if I prevail against him, and kill him, then shall ye be our servants, and serve us. 17.8-9
David heard about it and volunteered for the job. It might have had something to do with the reward.
What shall be done to the man that killeth this Philistine, and taketh away the reproach from Israel? for who is this uncircumcised Philistine, that he should defy the armies of the living God? 17.26
And the men of Israel said … it shall be, that the man who killeth him, the king will enrich him with great riches, and will give him his daughter, and make his father's house free in Israel. 17.25
(OK, the verses are out of order, but hey, this is the Bible.)
Then Eliab, David's oldest brother, said that David was just doing it because he had a proud, naughty heart and wanted to get out of watching the sheep.
Eliab's anger was kindled against David, and he said, Why camest thou down hither? and with whom hast thou left those few sheep in the wilderness? I know thy pride, and the naughtiness of thine heart. 17.28
But David ignored Eliab and went to talk to King Saul.
David finds Saul and offers his services as giant killer but Saul is skeptical.
David said to Saul … thy servant will go and fight with this Philistine. And Saul said to David, Thou art not able to go against this Philistine to fight with him: for thou art but a youth, and he a man of war from his youth. 17.32-33
So David tells him a confusing story about how once, while tending sheep, he killed a lion (and a bear?) with his bare hands. God helped him kill the lion (and the bear?); he'll do the same with the 10 foot giant.
David said unto Saul, Thy servant kept his father's sheep, and there came a lion, and a bear, and took a lamb out of the flock: And I went out after him, and smote him, and delivered it out of his mouth: and when he arose against me, I caught him by his beard, and smote him, and slew him. Thy servant slew both the lion and the bear: and this uncircumcised Philistine shall be as one of them, seeing he hath defied the armies of the living God. David said moreover, The LORD that delivered me out of the paw of the lion, and out of the paw of the bear, he will deliver me out of the hand of this Philistine. 17.34-37a
So Saul gives David the job, putting his own sword, helmet, and coat of mail on him.
Saul said unto David, Go, and the LORD be with thee. And Saul armed David with his armour, and he put an helmet of brass upon his head; also he armed him with a coat of mail. 17.37b-38
But David wasn't used to it, so he decided to go with just his staff, a sling, and five stones instead.
David said unto Saul, I cannot go with these; for I have not proved them. And David put them off him. And he took his staff in his hand, and chose him five smooth stones out of the brook, and put them in a shepherd's bag which he had, even in a scrip; and his sling was in his hand: and he drew near to the Philistine. 17.39-40
As he was leaving, Saul said to his captain Abner, "Who's son is that boy?"
When Saul saw David go forth against the Philistine, he said unto Abner, the captain of the host, Abner, whose son is this youth? And Abner said, As thy soul liveth, O king, I cannot tell. And the king said, Enquire thou whose son the stripling is. 17.55-56
(In the previous chapter, Saul sent a messenger to tell Jesse to send his son David, David came and played his harp for Saul to get rid of God's evil spirit, and Saul "loved him greatly" for it. Yet now he doesn't even know who David is.)
So David goes off and confronts Goliath, after making a little speech.
Then said David to the Philistine, Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a shield: but I come to thee in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied. This day will the LORD deliver thee into mine hand; and I will smite thee, and take thine head from thee; and I will give the carcases of the host of the Philistines this day unto the fowls of the air, and to the wild beasts of the earth; that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel. And all this assembly shall know that the LORD saveth not with sword and spear: for the battle is the LORD's, and he will give you into our hands. 17.45-47
And you know the rest of the story: David killed Goliath, cut off his head and brought it to Jerusalem.
David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang it, and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead; and he fell upon his face to the earth. So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David. Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled … And David took the head of the Philistine, and brought it to Jerusalem. 17.49-54
(There is a completely different Bible story about Goliath's death, but I'm going to ignore that for now. 2 Samuel 21:19 says that Elhanan killed Goliath.)
Note: Although the Bible doesn’t explicitly say that God helped David kill Goliath, David claims that he did. (“This day will the Lord deliver thee into mine hand.” 1 Sam 17.46) But whatever God’s involvement may have been in this killing, he clearly approved of it. So I’m including it on the list.
God's next killing: David buys a wife with 200 Philistine foreskins
Posted by Steve Wells at 1/10/2010 07:24:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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09 January 2010In the Valley of Elah: Did God help David kill Goliath?
After Samuel cried all night and tore his skirt over Saul's incomplete genocide, he finished the job the next day by hacking Agag to pieces before the Lord.
But God and Samuel were still upset by the whole thing. It broke their little hearts. After all, God told Saul to kill all the Amalekites, and Saul saved one guy alive, along with some animals he planned to sacrifice to God later on. (How would you feel if you told someone to commit genocide and then they went and left one person alive?)
Samuel never saw Saul again (not with his clothes on anyway -- see 1 Samuel 19:24), but he "mourned" for him. And God repented of making Saul king.
And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel. 1 Samuel 15:35
So God and Saul found another king, someone who would gladly kill anyone at any time for any reason, a man after God's own heart: David.
I'm going to skip the details about how God and Samuel selected David so I can get on with the story at hand. (But be sure to read the Brick Testament story.) But since the same pair (God and Samuel) that conspired to produce the Amalekite massacre selected David as king, you know it was a good selection!
When Samuel anointed David as king, the Spirit of the Lord came on David and it was with him for the rest of his life. At the same time, of course, the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul and was replaced by an evil spirit from God, as required by the first law of spiritual thermodynamics.
Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him ... and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. ...
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. 1 Samuel 16:13-14
This dastardly evil spirit from God caused Saul lots of problems. And only one thing seemed to help: David and his harp.
I guess Saul was too busy with God's evil spirit to notice that David had replaced him as king. In any case he seems to have fallen in love with him.
David came to Saul, and stood before him: and he loved him greatly ... And Saul sent to Jesse, saying, Let David, I pray thee, stand before me; for he hath found favour in my sight. And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him. 1 Samuel 16:19-23
And now we finally get the the story I'm supposed to be telling. The one you already know. David and Goliath.
It begins with a Philistine named Goliath, who was a big guy, even by NBA standards. At 6 cubits and a span, he would have been about 3 meters (nearly 10 feet) tall. His armor weighed 5000 shekels (57.5 kg, 126 lb) and he threw a spear with at iron tip that weighed 600 shekels (6.9 kg, 15 lb).
Goliath had a plan to limit the smiting that was always going on between the Philistines and the Israelites -- a fair fight between two guys: him and whoever the Israelites chose.
David heard about it and volunteered for the job. It might have had something to do with the reward.
What shall be done to the man that killeth this Philistine, and taketh away the reproach from Israel? for who is this uncircumcised Philistine, that he should defy the armies of the living God? 1 Samuel 17:26
And the men of Israel said, Have ye seen this man that is come up? surely to defy Israel is he come up: and it shall be, that the man who killeth him, the king will enrich him with great riches, and will give him his daughter, and make his father's house free in Israel. 1 Samuel 17:25
(OK, the verses are out of order, but hey, this is the Bible.)
Then Eliab, David's oldest brother, said that David was just doing it because he had a proud, naughty heart and wanted to get out of watching the sheep.
And Eliab his eldest brother heard when he spake unto the men; and Eliab's anger was kindled against David, and he said, Why camest thou down hither? and with whom hast thou left those few sheep in the wilderness? I know thy pride, and the naughtiness of thine heart. 1 Samuel 17:28
But David ignored Eliab and went to talk to king Saul.
[It's getting a bit confusing, isn't it? In the last chapter David was anointed king by Samuel and then did a harp-playing gig to help get rid of Saul's evil spirit from God. But let's forget about all that (let the believers sort it all out) and get back to the story.]
David finds Saul and offers his services as giant killer but Saul is skeptical. So David tells him a confusing story about how once, while tending sheep, he killed a lion (and a bear?) with his bare hands. God helped him kill the lion (and the bear?); he'll do the same with the 10 foot giant.
And David said unto Saul, Thy servant kept his father's sheep, and there came a lion, and a bear, and took a lamb out of the flock: And I went out after him, and smote him, and delivered it out of his mouth: and when he arose against me, I caught him by his beard, and smote him, and slew him. Thy servant slew both the lion and the bear: and this uncircumcised Philistine shall be as one of them, seeing he hath defied the armies of the living God. David said moreover, The LORD that delivered me out of the paw of the lion, and out of the paw of the bear, he will deliver me out of the hand of this Philistine. And Saul said unto David, Go, and the LORD be with thee. 1 Samuel 17:34-37
So Saul gives David the job, putting his own sword, helmet, and coat of mail on him. But David wasn't used to it, so he decided to go with just his staff, a sling, and five stones instead.
As he was leaving, Saul said to his captain Abner, "Who's son is that boy?"
And when Saul saw David go forth against the Philistine, he said unto Abner, the captain of the host, Abner, whose son is this youth? And Abner said, As thy soul liveth, O king, I cannot tell. And the king said, Enquire thou whose son the stripling is. 1 Samuel 17:55-56
(In the previous chapter, Saul sent a messenger to tell Jesse to send his son David, David came and played his harp for Saul to get rid of God's evil spirit, and Saul "loved him greatly" for it. Yet now he doesn't even know who David is.)
So David goes off and confronts Goliath, after making a little speech.
Then said David to the Philistine, Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a shield: but I come to thee in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied. This day will the LORD deliver thee into mine hand; and I will smite thee, and take thine head from thee; and I will give the carcases of the host of the Philistines this day unto the fowls of the air, and to the wild beasts of the earth; that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel. And all this assembly shall know that the LORD saveth not with sword and spear: for the battle is the LORD's, and he will give you into our hands. 1 Samuel 17:45-47
And you know the rest of the story: David killed Goliath, cut off his head and brought it to Jerusalem.
(There is a completely different Bible story about Goliath's death, but I'm going to ignore that for now. 2 Samuel 21:19 says that Elhanan killed Goliath.)
The question I have is this: does God deserve credit for this killing?
David said that God would deliver Goliath into his hand, but maybe he was wrong about that. What do you think? Should I include this in God's killings?
Posted by Steve Wells at 1/09/2010 12:21:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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skanksta said...
I think you need to be clearer about what happened to the other Philistines, Steve.
Jonathan obviously believed he had some sort of god on his side, but all believers think that. Jonathan might have won the battle anyway and just attributed it to a god -as believers do. If all the philistines were 'delivered' as predicted, it would add weight of circumstantial evidence to the Yahweh helping theory.
If not, I say not enough evidence for Yahweh being involved...
Sat Jan 09, 01:30:00 PM 2010
Steve Wells said...
I agree, skanksta (although I'm not sure what you mean about the other Philistines). It isn't clear enough, to me anyway, that God was directly involved -- even though David claimed that he was. That's why I didn't include it in the original list.
But I think it is a close one and I'm interested in what others might think. That's why I'm asking.
Sat Jan 09, 02:19:00 PM 2010
busterggi said...
I think anyone that brings a sword to a gunfight is at a serious disadvantage & that's what Goliath supposedly did.
Of course another part of the bible says someone else killed Goliath so maybe he got better after David killed him.
Sat Jan 09, 02:42:00 PM 2010
skanksta said...
What I meant by 'what happened to the other Philistines?' is...
the (pleasant) bit where Samuel says,
"and I will give the carcases of the host of the Philistines this day unto the fowls of the air, and to the wild beasts of the earth; that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel. And all this assembly shall know that the LORD saveth not with sword and spear: for the battle is the LORD's, and he will give you into our hands." 1 Samuel 17:45-47
Where the hosts of the philistines REALLY given to the fowls of the air as carcasses ?
If so, then I think Yahweh get the nod for Goliath AND the other philistines (1,000?), because Sam's god did what he predicted exactly and it makes it too much of a coincidence.
If not, then it's just a believer attributing random events to the will of his god.
Sun Jan 10, 03:34:00 AM 2010
matt311 said...
"If not, then it's just a believer attributing random events to the will of his god."
...and we all know that's never happened before. ;-)
Also, Steve, I liked your "first law of spiritual thermodynamics"; it applies science to the absurdities of the Bible to show how ridiculous they are. Nice turn of phrase.
Sun Jan 10, 10:24:00 PM 2010
Steve Wells said...
I think I'll just call this a "God approved killing" and move on.
Mon Jan 11, 11:07:00 AM 2010
Ritchie Annand said...
Apologists say that 1 Chronicles 20:5 sorts out the Goliath/brother of Goliath thing.
It seems fair enough. Doesn't make the story any nicer, but it seems fair enough.
Mon Jan 11, 12:33:00 PM 2010
busterggi said...
Ritchie - the apologists are full of shit about the killing of Goliath as they are about everything else.
Mon Jan 11, 05:32:00 PM 2010
Ritchie Annand said...
Buster - No, the text is reasonable:
"And there was war again with the Philistines; and Elhanan the son of Jair slew Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, whose spear staff was like a weaver's beam."
What it DOES mean, though, from what I have read, is that the KJV corrected an error in the original text. That was also noted in one of the sites that I found the explanation.
Steve even has the note in the SAB (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2sam/21.html#19):
(The editors of the King James Version added the words "the brother of" to avoid the obvious contradiction. This is shown by the italics in the KJV.)
...but now I'm giving away parts of his future posts :)
Tue Jan 12, 07:44:00 AM 2010
busterggi said...
Yes, Ritchie, the KJV translators sure knew more than the folks that wrote the original versions!
I like the RKJV where David calls in an airstrike against the Philistines. The origianl writers left that out too.
Tue Jan 12, 08:39:00 AM 2010
skanksta said...
An error in the original text !?
Lol.
Hurry up with the 'moving on' Steve - I'm getting dwindlinginunbelief
withdrawal pretty bad...
Tue Jan 12, 11:29:00 AM 2010
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05 January 2010Samuel hacks Agag to pieces before the Lord
Saul ruined God's last killing by not killing all the Amalekites. God wanted a complete genocide, and Saul blew it by keeping one man alive (along with a few animals that he planned to kill later for God). Poor Samuel was so upset that he tore his skirt and cried all night.
It grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night. 1 Samuel 15.11
Samuel … laid hold upon the skirt of his mantle, and it rent. 15.27
But according to the story, it wasn't God that told Saul to commit genocide. It was Samuel. Samuel said "thus saith the Lord" and Saul was stupid enough to believe him. And believers have followed along ever since.
After the genocide, Samuel just kept making nasty shit up and blaming it on God.
Then came the word of the LORD unto Samuel, saying, It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. 15.10-11
The LORD sent thee on a journey, and said, Go and utterly destroy the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed. 15.18
The commandment of God that Saul broke was "Thou shalt kill everyone, man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."
Thus saith the Lord of hosts … Go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. 15.2-3
So Samuel had to finish the holy genocide by hacking Agag to pieces before the Lord.
Then said Samuel, Bring ye hither to me Agag the king of the Amalekites. And Agag came unto him delicately. And Agag said, Surely the bitterness of death is past. And Samuel said, As the sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the LORD in Gilgal. 15.32-33
Samuel was a monster. But he was a hero to God and still is to all Bible believers.
God's next killing: In the valley of Ellah -- Goliath
Posted by Steve Wells at 1/05/2010 08:36:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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2 comments:
busterggi said...
At his age Yahweh should be able to cut up his own food.
Wed Jan 06, 03:00:00 PM 2010
matt311 said...
Wow... so God shuns Saul for being merciful and actually taking time out to prepare a proper sacrifice?
Damn, another story they forgot to teach me in CCD, probably because it contained the wrong morals; fancy that!
Thu Jan 07, 09:21:00 PM 2010
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02 January 2010The Amalekite Genocide
Nothing much needs to be said about this one.
You only need to read the first three verses from 1 Samuel 15 to know for sure that the God of the Bible is evil. (Thank goodness he doesn't exist!)
Still, it is good idea to look at the story in context.
(Bible believers often tell us to look at the context. But context nearly always makes Bible stories worse, not better. This story is no exception.)
Samuel also said unto Saul ... Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. 1 Samuel 15.1-3
Notice that Samuel speaks here for God. Why would anyone believe that then or now? Was it because it sounded like something God would say?
And if the genocide was so important to God, why didn't he tell Saul directly?
But let's assume that the Bible is right and Samuel quoted God correctly. If so, then (unlike many of God's killings) we know why God wanted to Saul to kill all the Amalekites -- because God remembered what their ancestors did hundreds of years before they were born (they defended themselves when the Israelites tried to kill them and take their land).
And Saul pretty much did as God commanded. He sent 210,000 soldiers to kill everyone and everything among the Amalekites: men, women, children, babies, animals -- except for the king, Agag, and some of the more valuable sheep, oxen, and lambs.
Saul gathered the people together … two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah. … And Saul smote the Amalekites ... And he took Agag the king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword. But Saul and the people spared Agag, and the best of the sheep, and of the oxen, and of the fatlings, and the lambs, and all that was good, and would not utterly destroy them: but every thing that was vile and refuse, that they destroyed utterly. 15.4-9
Saul killed the old men, the pregnant women, the children and babies. But he spared the king and some of the more valuable animals, and God would never forgive him for it.
Samuel cried his little eyes out all night and God repented of making Saul king.
Then came the word of the LORD unto Samuel, saying, It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night. 15.10-11
It's good to know that God repented. When you order someone to commit genocide for stuff that happened centuries ago, you should be a bit sorry about it.
But that wasn't what God was sorry about. God wanted all of the Amalekites to be killed. In some sick way it made God happy every time an old Amalekite woman or a little baby was killed.
No, God repented of making Saul king because he didn't kill everyone, and God wanted everyone killed.
And if you believe in the Bible, you wanted them killed, too.
[If this Bible story is true (which it isn't, of course), how many Amalekites were killed at God's command? I originally gave it the usual 1000 for a standard massacre, but Saul sent 210,000 soldiers to do the killing. He wouldn't send that many soldiers to kill only 1000 civilians, would he? So I increased it to 10,000.]
God's next killing: Samuel hacks Agag to pieces before the Lord
Posted by Steve Wells at 1/02/2010 11:22:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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busterggi said...
Now if Yahweh didn't want any Amalekites why did he make them?
Bad fiction makes bad religion.
Sat Jan 02, 04:08:00 PM 2010
matt311 said...
True enough; it's not even consistent when it comes to town names and civilizations.
Any chance we'll get to see the witch of Endor covered on these pages, Steve?
Sat Jan 02, 06:41:00 PM 2010
Ian said...
Funny how this story never made it into the readings I heard while attending Catholic mass every Sunday growing up....
It's good to know that this story is fiction. Unfortunately, the believers in this story (like the Catholics in the SS, or the Orthodox Christians in the Army of the Republika Srpska, or the Catholics in the Hutu Interahamwe) committed similar acts that were all too real.
Sat Jan 02, 08:37:00 PM 2010
twillight said...
Add to what you said Saul WANNED to kill all the captured animals - as a sacrifice for his god, fully burnt, next morning.
But the god of the bible is impatient in that fairytale.
Mon Jan 04, 12:44:00 PM 2010
I Am said...
You've got to sympathize with God on this one. It's just so hard to find good help. You ask your servant to kill every Amalek and everything they own, and he spares one man and some choice animals. FAIL!
Seriously, does God have to do all the killing single-handedly? Can't he trust his followers to pull off total annihilation without hand-holding them? When will his followers figure out that the more dead, the merrier their God is??
God must be pretty bummed about his most recent generation of followers, most of which haven't killed even one person.
Unfortunately for the rest of us, there are still those who actually believe this crap and might kill an entire race of people if they thought God wanted it.
Tue Jan 05, 12:43:00 PM 2010
Abeille said...
Twilight, I thought you were going to be a fundamentalist.
Calling the bible a fairytale is blasphemy.
Leviticus 24:16
And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death , and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death .
Actually, it might not be blasphemy but its still an fundamentalist thing to do.
Wed Jan 06, 06:37:00 PM 2010
Abeille said...
***an unfundamentalist thing to do.
(Whoops)
Wed Jan 06, 06:39:00 PM 2010
twillight said...
Sry to disappoint you Abeille. I'm just good at mockery, but bad with humour.
Sun Jan 10, 01:40:00 AM 2010
Not Ms. Fiedler said...
Why do you believe it didn't happen? The text, if not divine, came from somewhere. Why would people write it? It seems most likely to me that something like the event did take place (although you would follow the minimalist principle to figure out exactly what happened) and the text exists to explain the event. If it didn't happen, why would it be there?
Tue Feb 02, 11:10:00 AM 2010
really said...
First, there are general reasons for the annihilation of peoples like the Canaanites. These are the peoples who possess the promised land which God gave to Israel. The primary reason stated above is that these peoples are exceedingly wicked. If they are not totally wiped out, they will teach the Israelites their sinful ways and thus bring them under divine condemnation. I read this today a commentary on this passage
"It is easy to see why all the fighting men of the enemy should be killed, but why the women, children, and cattle? The sin of the Canaanites involved had defiled and corrupted their animals, and God would not allow any to survive." How can any sensible thinking person believe this?
Sun Apr 18, 04:14:00 PM 2010
Matthew Millard said...
Does the name Haman have any thought on any of your minds?
Tue Jun 25, 07:53:00 PM 2013
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28 February 2010Jehu assembled the followers of Baal and then slaughtered them all
After Jehu finished killing Ahab's family in Samaria, he called an assembly to worship Baal.
Jehu gathered all the people together, and said unto them, Ahab served Baal a little; but Jehu shall serve him much. 2 Kings 10:18
Jehu would lead the sacrifice to Baal and any follower of Baal that did not come would be killed.
Now therefore call unto me all the prophets of Baal, all his servants, and all his priests; let none be wanting: for I have a great sacrifice to do to Baal; whosoever shall be wanting, he shall not live. 2 Kings 10:19a
But he was lying, of course. He assembled the followers of Baal, not to worship Baal with them as he said, but to kill them all.
But Jehu did it in subtilty ... that he might destroy the worshippers of Baal. 2 Kings 10:19b
So Jehu called the assembly.
Jehu said, Proclaim a solemn assembly for Baal. And they proclaimed it. And Jehu sent through all Israel: and all the worshippers of Baal came, so that there was not a man left that came not. And they came into the house of Baal; and the house of Baal was full from one end to another. 2 Kings 10:20-21
Then he told 80 of his men to kill of the worshipers of Baal, saying he'd kill whoever let any escape.
And when they went in to offer sacrifices and burnt offerings, Jehu appointed fourscore men without, and said, If any of the men whom I have brought into your hands escape, he that letteth him go, his life shall be for the life of him. 2 Kings 10:24
When Jehu finished his sacrifice to Baal, he ordered the sacrifice of all of the followers of Baal.
As soon as he had made an end of offering the burnt offering, that Jehu said to the guard and to the captains, Go in, and slay them; let none come forth. And they smote them with the edge of the sword. 2 Kings 10:25
God approved of this and all of Jehu's previous mass murders. He liked them so much, in fact, that Jehu's sons would be kings of Israel for the next four generations.
And the LORD said unto Jehu, Because thou hast done well in executing that which is right in mine eyes, and hast done unto the house of Ahab according to all that was in mine heart, thy children of the fourth generation shall sit on the throne of Israel. 2 Kings 10:25
God's next killing: The priest of Baal and Queen Athaliah
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/28/2010 04:05:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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2 comments:
I am the wise fool. said...
That is a gray area. Although according to Exodus 22:20, you could say that God told Jehu to kill them.
Thu Mar 04, 07:33:00 PM 2010
Matthew Blanchette said...
Wow...
I'd say more about Jehu being a sick and twisted fuck, but I think I've stated all I can in previous posts.
Sun Mar 28, 02:44:00 PM 2010
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26 February 2010Practical matters from Scripture: What should be done with Tilikum?
Bryan Fischer at RenewAmerica.com has a great idea. Let's apply scripture to everyday life.
Take the recent, tragic incident at SeaWorld in Olando, where a trainer was killed by an orca, for example. It wouldn't have happened if we paid attention to scripture.
Mr. Fischer says that God's instructions on such matters are clearly laid out in Exodus 21:28-29.
So let's take a look at these verses.
If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned, and his flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be quit. Exodus 21:28
Well, I'm not sure that this verse applies directly to orcas, but I like the way Bryan is thinking. So let's stay with him on this.
Exodus 21:28 says that if someone is killed by an ox, then we must stone the ox to death.
Which means, I guess, that we should stone Tilikum to death.
This brings up some practical problems, though, doesn't it? How can we can stone an orca to death? I guess Mr. Fischer thinks we should try.
But however we kill Tilikum, we can't eat him afterward. Oh, and the owner is to be considered blameless.
On to verse 29.
But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death. Exodus 21:29
This verse makes things much more interesting, especially since this was not the first time someone was "gored" by Tilikum.
If we follow the Bible on this, we not only have find a way to stone Tilikum, we also have to kill his owner (or owners), as well.
Yeah, the the folks at Sea World should have followed the Bible.
Or maybe we should just stop using large predators as entertainment.
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/26/2010 04:41:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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7 comments:
C Woods said...
Can you imagine what this world would be like if we really followed ALL of the Bible's rules, laws, and regulations? We'd be stoning people left and right. Almost no one would be safe.
I never understand why religious people choose one abomination from the Bible (homosexuality, for example) to pick on, but ignore other rules, like those against eating lobster or pork, women not speaking in church, stoning disobedient children. And I don't know even one "good Christian" who gives all his money to the poor as directed by the Bible. Oh, well, I guess Christians ---just like their god ---work in mysterious ways.
Sat Feb 27, 01:38:00 AM 2010
T said...
I just want to say thank you for your blog & for the Skeptic's Annotated Bible. Too many people want to take the Bible (or Qu'ran) literally, which doesn't make any sense. As the comment above states, why do such people then choose one abomination over another? I have started meeting Christians who cherry-pick verses from the Bible to support their belief/thought of the moment and are intolerant of anyone who chooses to disagree. Thank you again for your voice of clear-headed logic.
Sat Feb 27, 11:34:00 AM 2010
Interested said...
I second that notion. This site is a breath of fresh air.
Sat Feb 27, 01:03:00 PM 2010
skanksta said...
3rded !
Steve should get an honorary knighthood from The Queen imo.
Sun Feb 28, 12:59:00 AM 2010
McGuire said...
Looks like someone decided to take your advice ;)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1255453/SeaWorld-whale-killed-Dawn-Brancheau-stoned-death.html
The American Family Association said Biblical teachings dictate that the five-ton killer whale Tilikum should be executed for dragging to death trainer Dawn Brancheau.
Thu Mar 04, 10:02:00 AM 2010
Matthew Blanchette said...
Well, I don't think anyone's listening to them, and rightly so; stoning is a completely inhumane practice.
Sun Mar 28, 02:34:00 PM 2010
Gary T. Burnaska said...
C Woods, In Iran unfortunately that is what they do take ever part of the Quran literally.
This is why I am a Subgenius, "Bob" has never condoned stoning children or molesting them or incest. Just hating the normals who make normal the norm. PRAZE "BOB"!
Thu Feb 24, 07:28:00 PM 2011
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25 February 2010Jehu and his partner show their zeal for the Lord by killing the rest of Ahab's family
After meeting with Ahaziah's family (and killing them all), Jehu got into his chariot and drove away furiously toward Samaria. On his way he ran across an old friend, Jehonadab.
Jehu asked Jehonadab, "Is your heart as true to mine as mine is to yours?" And Jehonadb said, "It is." (I guess they were really good friends.)
When he was departed thence, he lighted on Jehonadab the son of Rechab coming to meet him: and he saluted him, and said to him, Is thine heart right, as my heart is with thy heart? And Jehonadab answered, It is. 2 Kings 10:15a
Then Jehu said, "If it is, give me your hand." (This is getting so romantic!)
If it be, give me thine hand. 2 Kings 10:15b
So Jehu reached out his hand and took Jehonadab into the chariot.
And he gave him his hand; and he took him up to him into the chariot. 2 Kings 10:15c
When Jehonadab and Jehu were finally together, Jehu said, "Come with me, and see my zeal for the Lord."
And he said, Come with me, and see my zeal for the LORD. 2 Kings 10:16
Then the two men, whose hearts were true to each other, rode off into the sunset toward Samaria.
When they arrived in Samaria, they slaughtered the rest of Ahab's family, "according to the saying of the LORD, which he spake to Elijah."
And when he came to Samaria, he slew all that remained unto Ahab in Samaria, till he had destroyed him, according to the saying of the LORD, which he spake to Elijah. 2 Kings 10:17
And by so doing, the true-hearted partners expressed their zeal for the Lord.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Bible doesn't say how many were killed, so I just guessed 100.
There really should be a Brick Testament story for this one!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God's next killing: Jehu assembles the followers of Baal and then slaughters them all
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/25/2010 11:21:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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5 comments:
twillight said...
Lol, another gay-episode?
Thu Feb 25, 11:40:00 AM 2010
Interested said...
I find it impossible to understand how anyone could worship such a cruel and violent creature; even if he existed.
Thu Feb 25, 12:25:00 PM 2010
Dan said...
Any idea when Ahab started his family? I am thinking that with 70 sons, his family had to be quite large. Like, huge. Therefore, you are probably being quite conservative with your estimates for this and rampage #95.
Thu Feb 25, 12:53:00 PM 2010
twillight said...
@Interested
Maybe its worshippers were equally cruel and violent?
Or they wanned to be cruel and violent? (This later seems to be the case the jews being constantly oppressed by civilised people. And ... well, you know what happens when you want to be a certain kind of man....)
Thu Feb 25, 02:19:00 PM 2010
Matthew Blanchette said...
Does this seem eerily similar to Elephant for anyone else?
Sun Mar 28, 02:32:00 PM 2010
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25 February 2010Jehu killed 42 of Ahaziah's family (and God approved of this killing)
After Jehu killed what remained of Ahab's family in Jezreel, he went to Samaria and met with the family of king Ahaziah of Judah.
And he arose and departed, and came to Samaria. And ... met with the brethren of Ahaziah king of Judah, and said, Who are ye? And they answered, We are the brethren of Ahaziah; and we go down to salute the children of the king and the children of the queen. 2 KIngs 10:12-13
It was a short, productive meeting. Jehu had only one action item: kill all the attendees.
And he said, Take them alive. And they took them alive, and slew them at the pit of the shearing house, even two and forty men; neither left he any of them. 2 KIngs 10:14
That's all that 2 Kings says about it. But the killing is also covered in 2 Chronicles.
The destruction of Ahaziah was of God by coming to Joram: for when he was come, he went out with Jehoram against Jehu the son of Nimshi, whom the LORD had anointed to cut off the house of Ahab. And it came to pass, that, when Jehu was executing judgment upon the house of Ahab, and found the princes of Judah, and the sons of the brethren of Ahaziah, that ministered to Ahaziah, he slew them. And he sought Ahaziah: and they caught him, (for he was hid in Samaria,) and brought him to Jehu: and when they had slain him. 2 Chronicles 22:7-9
So we know that the killing of Ahaziah's 42 relatives was "of God" -- which means that God approved of these killings.
But was it part of Jehu's hit list from God?
I guess God only knows that, and he's not telling.
(I guess even God has the right to remain silent.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God's next killing: Jehu and his partner show their zeal for the Lord by killing the rest of Ahab’s family
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/25/2010 08:56:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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4 comments:
twillight said...
The answer lies in the original start. Did biblegod sent Jehu on this killing-row, or he just started to fullfil his (or Elija's?) promise.
It's blurry now, but as far as I remember, this is only a "god approved killing", and not a direct "killing by god".
You know what my first thought was? Why not make a computer-game from it?
In the style of that ancient Robocop-game, or something seems a good way to introduce how caring this god is...
Thu Feb 25, 10:43:00 AM 2010
skanksta said...
The Lord killeth and the Lord haveth his killings taken away...
I agree with twilight - not clear enough to give to Yahweh, but Steve, WHEN are you gonna up killing no.90 (Moabites) to 5,000 from 1,000 ?
Thu Feb 25, 03:10:00 PM 2010
Steve Wells said...
Thanks twillight and skanksta.
I'll keep it as a God-approved killing.
And I haven't forgotten about the #90 total. I'll go over and take a look.
Thu Feb 25, 09:24:00 PM 2010
Matthew Blanchette said...
Why didn't anybody try to stop Jehu? Nobody lets crazed killers who say they're from God run amok today; where was that common sense in Bible times?
Sun Mar 28, 02:05:00 PM 2010
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24 February 2010Context: It almost always makes it worse
When it comes to God's killings in the Bible, context matters. And it almost always makes them less defensible.
Maybe that's why I can't find any believers to explain how context makes God's killings OK.
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/24/2010 09:35:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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psybermonkey said...
I just finished debating someone who claimed I was taking several passages out of context, such as 2 Kings 2:23-24 when god sends forth two bears to kill 42 children and Deuteronomy 22:28-29 where if a woman is an unengaged virgin and is raped, but the rape is caught in the act, the woman must marry her rapist.
The logic he presented to try and justify them and to show I was taking them out of context was simply astonishingly absurd. For example, with a woman having to marry her rapist he responded with the following:
"Ahh, this old hat. Once again, easily taken out of context. Here is how it is actually read:
Deut 22:28 - Then the man (rapist) that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
This law was meant as a punishment for the rapist, as well as a means of "compensation" for the victim. The rapist has to pay the father 50 shekels of silver, which by the way was a lot of money back then, and had to marry the virgin to support her for the rest of her life (notice no mention of further sexual relations). This was because, unlike today, a woman who wasn't a virgin could not land a husband anymore! Pretty practical law in favor of the victim if you ask me. See, God is cool! Not like today's PC "kiss the perpetrators ass" and dump on the victim rulings. Makes me want to vomit."
Yep...God is pretty cool alright.
You can read the whole debate here if interested: http://digg.com/comics_animation/Thor_speaks_on_the_topic_of_Jesus_Pic?t=31176292#c31176292
It wasn't even planned but ended up happening after a comment I made got his attention.
Thanks to info from the debate that occurred on the Dwindling in Unbelief website regarding the bear story, I was able to knock him into a corner in regards to showing that it really does say "little children" were mauled and not "young men." You just have to look at the other verses in which the Hebrew words are used sequentially.
At that point he had to change the topic and resort to atheist criticism, which I've come to learn is a regular with apologists who realize that they've lost.
Wed Feb 24, 10:32:00 PM 2010
skanksta said...
Looked quite interesting, but I couldn't find it from that link ?
Thu Feb 25, 03:04:00 PM 2010
psybermonkey said...
Sorry skanksta, I probably should have been clear on how to view it. If you go to the page you should be able to see my comment and right below that, a comment by BandX2 which doesn't automatically show. Just click "show" and then "21 replies" at the bottom of his comment to expand it all.
Thu Feb 25, 04:44:00 PM 2010
skanksta said...
I got it eventually, ta.
Tue Mar 02, 04:04:00 PM 2010
Mister K said...
I can see what god did there. You'd only rape a girl you wouldn't marry. Else, you'd just buy her.
It's the perfect punishment. And don't talk about how the girl feels, we all know women are souless animals and can't feel emotions or pain.
Mon Mar 08, 04:27:00 PM 2010
Matthew Blanchette said...
I can't see the posted video; could someone describe it to me? :-(
Sun Mar 28, 02:03:00 PM 2010
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24 February 2010Ahab's hometown family, friends, and priests
In God's last killing, the chicken-shit leaders of Jezreel sent Jehu the heads of Ahab's sons (all 70 of them).
But that didn't quite satisfy Jehu. He had his orders from God, given to him by Elisha when Jehu was made king.
Thus saith the LORD God ... thou shalt smite the house of Ahab thy master ... The whole house of Ahab shall perish: and I will cut off from Ahab him that pisseth against the wall ....And I will make the house of Ahab like the house of Jeroboam ... and Baasha ... And the dogs shall eat Jezebel in the portion of Jezreel, and there shall be none to bury her. 2 Kings 9:6-10
So although he was off to a good start, having killed Ahab's son, Jehoram, Ahab's wife, Jezebel, and 70 of Ahab's sons, there still might be a few wall-pissing family or friends of Ahab left to kill.
The first place that Jehu looked was Ahab's old hometown, Jezreel. He searched the town and found all of Ahab's family, friends, and priests -- whoever that was associated somehow with Ahab and might also have pissed against a wall at one time or another.
And then he killed them all.
So Jehu slew all that remained of the house of Ahab in Jezreel, and all his great men, and his kinsfolks, and his priests, until he left him none remaining. 2 Kings 10:11
Then he took his search elsewhere.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The text doesn't say how many of Ahab's family and friends were killed in Jezreel. I'll just say 100.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God's next killing: Ahaziah's family
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/24/2010 08:07:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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1 comment:
Matthew Blanchette said...
Wow; talk about killing 50 people for the sins of one...
Sun Mar 28, 02:01:00 PM 2010
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24 February 2010Ahab's sons: 70 heads in two heaps
Jehu was on a mission from God.
(Like Anton Chigurh in "No Country for Old Men," but without the coin tosses.)
First he killed one of Ahab's sons, Jehoram. Then he killed Ahab's wife, Jezebel. Now it was time to take care of the rest of Ahab's family.
He started by writing letters to the rulers of Jezreel challenging them fight for Ahab's sons. But they were intimidated by Jehu (they'd probably heard about his previous murders) and said that they would do whatever he wanted.
So Jehu wrote another letter telling them what he wanted: Bring him the heads of all 70 of Ahab's sons tomorrow.
Then he wrote a letter the second time to them, saying, If ye be mine, and if ye will hearken unto my voice, take ye the heads of the men your master's sons, and come to me to Jezreel by to morrow this time. Now the king's sons, being seventy persons, were with the great men of the city, which brought them up. 2 Kings 10:6
And that's what they did. They killed Ahab's 70 sons, put the heads in baskets, and brought them to Jehu.
And it came to pass, when the letter came to them, that they took the king's sons, and slew seventy persons, and put their heads in baskets, and sent him them to Jezreel. 2 Kings 10:7
When Jehu heard that the heads had arrived, he said to put them in two heaps at the city gate and let them stay there overnight.
And there came a messenger, and told him, saying, They have brought the heads of the king's sons. And he said, Lay ye them in two heaps at the entering in of the gate until the morning. 2 Kings 10:8
The next morning Jehu went out and told the people that "the LORD hath done that which he spake by his servant Elijah." (See 1 Kings 21:21)
But there were still others that God wanted Jehu to visit.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God' next killing: Ahab’s hometown family, friends, and priests
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/24/2010 04:18:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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2 comments:
Abeille said...
Remind me never to seek asylum with Christians. Thanks.
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=430273
Wed Feb 24, 07:56:00 PM 2010
Matthew Blanchette said...
Damn, Jehu looks like a sick SOB with all those heads piled up behind him...
Sun Mar 28, 02:00:00 PM 2010
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23 February 2010Jezebel
Next on God's hit list for Jehu was Jezebel. So he rode his chariot over to her house.
When she heard Jehu was coming, she put on her make-up and sat by the window. As he entered the gate, she said, "Is it peace, Zimri, murderer of your master?," referring to Zimri's murder of king Baasha and his family.
Jehu poked his head in the window and said to Jezebel's eunuchs, "Who is on my side?" And then said, "Throw her down."
So the eunuchs threw her out the window, where she was trampled by horses, her blood splattering everywhere.
Throw her down. So they threw her down: and some of her blood was sprinkled on the wall, and on the horses: and he trode her under foot. 2 Kings 9:33
Then Jehu went off to eat and drink, telling his people to go take a look the "cursed woman" and then bury her.
And when he was come in, he did eat and drink, and said, Go, see now this cursed woman, and bury her: for she is a king's daughter. 2 Kings 9:34
But when they went to bury her, but couldn't find her, at least not very much of her. Dogs had already eaten everything except her skull, feet, and the palms of her hands.
And they went to bury her: but they found no more of her than the skull, and the feet, and the palms of her hands. 2 Kings 9:35
Which, of course, is just like God said it would be. Jezebel would be eaten by dogs and her body would be treated like shit.
This is the word of the LORD, which he spake by his servant Elijah the Tishbite, saying, In the portion of Jezreel shall dogs eat the flesh of Jezebel: And the carcase of Jezebel shall be as dung upon the face of the field 2 Kings 9:36-37
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God's next killing: Seventy heads in two heaps
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/23/2010 06:20:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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3 comments:
Interested said...
I shall never refer to anyone as Jezebel again!
Wed Feb 24, 10:18:00 AM 2010
skanksta said...
Excuse my language but, it's justified.
This god is a 24-carat cunt.
Wed Feb 24, 04:41:00 PM 2010
Matthew Blanchette said...
Wow... talk about a serial killer. :-|
Sun Mar 28, 01:57:00 PM 2010
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23 February 2010Jehoram of Israel
Remember when God killed Ahab for not killing a captured king? You might have thought that that would be the end of it. But no. God still had Ahab's family to kill. It was sort of his way of paying it forward.
The story is a bit complicated, but it starts with Elisha, who called one of "the children of the prophets" and told him to "gird his loins," get some oil, and go anoint Jehu as king of Israel. (You know you're in for some big-time prophet action when Elisha tells you to grab some oil and gird your loins.)
Elisha the prophet called one of the children of the prophets, and said unto him, Gird up thy loins, and take this box of oil ... And when thou comest thither, look out there Jehu ... and ... take the box of oil, and pour it on his head, and say, Thus saith the LORD, I have anointed thee king over Israel. 2 Kings 9:1-3
So that's what that son of a prophet did. He girded his loins and made Jehu king.
Then he told the new king that God had a job for him.
Thus saith the LORD God ... thou shalt smite the house of Ahab thy master, that I may avenge the blood of my servants the prophets, and the blood of all the servants of the LORD, at the hand of Jezebel. 2 Kings 9:6-7
Just in case it wasn't clear, the son of the prophet elaborated a bit. God wanted Jehu to kill everyone in Ahab's family, especially those that had ever "pissed against a wall."
For the whole house of Ahab shall perish: and I will cut off from Ahab him that pisseth against the wall. 2 Kings 9:8
He reminded Jehu of the last two families that God had executed: Jeroboam's and Baasha's. He wanted Jehu to go and do likewise to Ahab's family.
I will make the house of Ahab like the house of Jeroboam ... and Baasha. 2 Kings 9:9
But there was one person that God wanted more than just dead. Ahab's wife, Jezebel, was to be not just killed, but fed to the dogs, so that there would be nothing left of her body to bury.
And the dogs shall eat Jezebel in the portion of Jezreel, and there shall be none to bury her. 2 Kings 9:10
And that was the end of the message from God.
(As you may have noticed by now, God has a one-track mind.)
So Jehu took off in his chariot to get started on God's killings. When people saw him coming, they'd say, "That must be Jehu because he's driving like crazy." (Jehu is the patron saint of reckless drivers.)
And the watchman told, saying, He came even unto them, and cometh not again: and the driving is like the driving of Jehu the son of Nimshi; for he driveth furiously. 2 Kings 9:20
It wasn't long before Jehu found God's first victim: Ahab's son, Jehoram -- a wall-pisser if there ever was one!
So Jehu did what God told him to do. He shot him right through the heart and threw his dead body in the field of Naboth, "according to the word of the Lord."
Jehu drew a bow with his full strength, and smote Jehoram between his arms, and the arrow went out at his heart ... Then said Jehu to Bidkar his captain ... cast him into the plat of ground, according to the word of the LORD. 2 Kings 9:24-26
And so died the first wall-pisser in Ahab's family.
Then Jehu got back in his chariot and drove off furiously to find the rest.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God's next killing: Jezebel
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/23/2010 03:28:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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1 comment:
Matthew Blanchette said...
It seems they've done an update for the Brick Testament; it's in the Epistles section, apparently...
Sun Mar 28, 01:55:00 PM 2010
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23 February 2010God calls for a seven year famine
Well, there's not much to say about this one. It all happens in a single verse.
Then spake Elisha unto the woman, whose son he had restored to life, saying, Arise, and go thou and thine household, and sojourn wheresoever thou canst sojourn: for the LORD hath called for a famine; and it shall also come upon the land seven years. 2 Kings 8.1
God called for a seven year famine. The Bible doesn't say why God did this.
But I guess God can starve people to death if he wants to, for any reason, or for no reason at all.
The Bible doesn't say how many God starved to death in the seven year famine, so I'll just guess 7000, 1000 per year.
God's next killing: Jehoram of Israel
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/23/2010 08:51:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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5 comments:
Marcus said...
Yessum sir, the Lawd chasteneth he whom he loves. If you was a parent with a rebellious child wouldn't you starve them into submission?
Tue Feb 23, 12:09:00 PM 2010
twillight said...
Marcus, what "rebellious child" you refer to? In this verse I see none.
Tue Feb 23, 03:07:00 PM 2010
busterggi said...
Why a famine?
Simple, Yahweh was bored with warfare - too fast, not enough long drawn-out suffering.
Every deity needs a little diversion sometimes.
Tue Feb 23, 07:46:00 PM 2010
Marcus said...
@twilight
I was just throwing it out there. If all else fails apologists can use the excuse that Israel was rebellious in some way at the time to somehow justify Yahweh's disgusting acts.
Wed Feb 24, 09:13:00 AM 2010
Matthew Blanchette said...
All the Israelites look up and shout, "Save us!" God whispers, "No..."
"...because I'm having too much fun starvin' y'all."
Sun Mar 28, 01:46:00 PM 2010
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22 February 2010A skeptic is trampled to death
There was a famine in Samaria that was so severe that a donkey's head and a cup of bird dung sold for 80 and 5 shekels of silver, respectively. (About 500 and 32 current U.S. dollars)
There was a great famine in Samaria: and, behold, they besieged it, until an ass's head was sold for fourscore pieces of silver, and the fourth part of a cab of dove's dung for five pieces of silver. 2 Kings 6.25
And women were busy negotiating a schedule for eating each other's sons.
This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son tomorrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him. 6.28
But Elisha and God said things were about to change. Tomorrow, 7.5 liters of flour and 15 liters of barley will sell for 1 shekel of silver. (About 6 current U.S. dollars)
Then Elisha said, Hear ye the word of the LORD; Thus saith the LORD, To morrow about this time shall a measure of fine flour be sold for a shekel, and two measures of barley for a shekel, in the gate of Samaria. 7.1
An officer overheard Elisha's forecast for the commodities market, and he didn't believe it would happen. He said that even if God made it rain, prices wouldn't fall so much in a single day.
Then a lord on whose hand the king leaned answered the man of God, and said, Behold, if the LORD would make windows in heaven, might this thing be? 7.2a
Elisha responded that the skeptical officer would see it happen, but wouldn't be able to take advantage of the low prices. (Because he'd be dead.)
Behold, thou shalt see it with thine eyes, but shalt not eat thereof. 7.2b
Later that day, God made the Syrians hear things. The whole Syrian army heard the noise of non-existent chariots, horses, and soldiers. It was one massive, God-induced, collective, auditory hallucination. It was like the entire army was on a bad acid trip, and it scared the hell out of them.
The LORD had made the host of the Syrians to hear a noise of chariots, and a noise of horses, even the noise of a great host: and they said one to another, Lo, the king of Israel hath hired against us the kings of the Hittites, and the kings of the Egyptians, to come upon us. 7.6
So the Syrian army left Samaria because of the noises that God put in their heads.
Wherefore they arose and fled in the twilight, and left their tents, and their horses, and their asses, even the camp as it was, and fled for their life. 7.7
And the price of commodities fell, just like God and Elisha predicted.
So a measure of fine flour was sold for a shekel, and two measures of barley for a shekel, according to the word of the LORD. 7.16
But what happened to the skeptical officer?
He was trampled to death.
And the king appointed the lord on whose hand he leaned to have the charge of the gate: and the people trode upon him in the gate, and he died, as the man of God had said ... And so it fell out unto him: for the people trode upon him in the gate, and he died. 7:17-20
(I don’t know if God caused this to happen or not. But it seems pretty clear that he approved of it.)
God's next killing: God's seven year famine
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/22/2010 09:05:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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8 comments:
skanksta said...
I vote 0 and it goes in your sub-folder of god-approved killings.
You can afford to be strict. It's not as if Yahweh is short for blood on his hands. Definitely >1,000 for the Moabites in G90K, though - sorry to go on, feel strongly about that one.
Tue Feb 23, 12:01:00 AM 2010
Junotheloon said...
While personally I think you should count it, in order for your count to be fair and accurate, I wouldn't. For situations like this, I would start a new count for killings God did not necessarily kill, but didn't stop (something along these lines). Basically, start a new column in your counting and add it there. That way, no one can say you were trying to embellish the already absurd number of deaths by God.
Tue Feb 23, 02:54:00 AM 2010
Richard said...
This is great work, Steve. Funny and true. Something which may amuse you: http://jesusfchrist.wordpress.com
Tue Feb 23, 04:09:00 AM 2010
joshua said...
This is like the killing of journalists in Russia - you can't prove who did it, but it sure sends a message.
Tue Feb 23, 06:14:00 AM 2010
twillight said...
I think it was a killing with G*d-allowed magic.
G*d is not at all blamed (except as source of that magic). The question is more like: did Elija just saw the future (unlikely), or changed it (seems so).
Tue Feb 23, 06:51:00 AM 2010
busterggi said...
Count it!
Never undercount a homicidal deity.
Tue Feb 23, 07:49:00 PM 2010
Nathan said...
Why would anyone want to buy bird poop, regardless of the economic conditions?
Thu Feb 25, 09:24:00 PM 2010
Matthew Blanchette said...
It's some tasty shit once you've feasted on nothing but donkey brains for a week...
Sun Mar 28, 01:43:00 PM 2010
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22 February 2010450 Religious Leaders Killed in a Prayer Contest
But who killed them? Elijah or God or both?
Here's the story.
Ahab, the king of Israel, was a follower of Baal, which, of course, Yahweh and Elijah didn't like very much. So Elijah suggested a prayer contest to determine which god was the real God.
Elijah told Ahab to get all the prophets of Baal to meet him on Mt. Carmel. When they arrived, he told them to get a bull, kill it, chop it into pieces, and put the whole bloody mess on some wood. But don't light it on fire. Then ask Baal to light it all on fire.
So the prophets of Baal did that. They prayed and prayed and cut themselves with knives, but nothing happened. Elijah taunted them, saying, "Pray harder! Maybe your god is on a trip or sleeping or something." But still there was no fire.
Elijah did the same thing. He even poured water over it all three times. Then he prayed to God and a fire fell down from heaven and consumed it all, even the surrounding stones.
Then Elijah told the spectators to slaughter the 450 prophets of Baal.
Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men. ....
And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there. 1 Kings 18:22, 40
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's ZJemptv's Mount Carmel Challenge.
Why doesn't anyone try this experiment today? (Skipping the slaughter of the losers.) We could start with believers vs. non-believers, Christians vs. Muslims, Catholics vs. Protestants, etc., until we zoomed in on the correct religious belief. It'd be so simple!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God's next killing: The first God-assisted slaughter of the Syrians
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/22/2010 02:29:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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9 comments:
skanksta said...
Steve !
You're like a blogging machine at the moment - great stuff, keeps me going through the boredom of working away from home in the shitehole that is Stoke-on-Trent, UK.
Mon Feb 22, 03:23:00 PM 2010
skanksta said...
I love the Mt. Carmel challenge !
I think God SHOULD get the 'credit' - omnipotent beings would surely know that frightened, superstitious people would want to be on the winning side and do whatever Elijah said after that display of power.
But then again...Elijah commands it and people do it. Hmmm, can you give us more details ?
I'll check it out in my bible - the SAB of course !
Mon Feb 22, 03:29:00 PM 2010
Abeille said...
Speaking of the Sab, when is going out to print?
I really want to purchase a nice hardcover version.
Mon Feb 22, 07:21:00 PM 2010
Steve Wells said...
I'm working on it, Abeille.
I hope to have a print version of the SAB done before the end of the year.
Mon Feb 22, 07:32:00 PM 2010
twillight said...
It was Elija's decision to go cleansing his country from the other cult, I don't remember Elohim sending him, so it's all to blame Elija.
And just for the fact, some people DO this challenge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3cubbQ7hrw
Tue Feb 23, 06:44:00 AM 2010
Steve Wells said...
That was fun to watch, twillight.
I wonder why believers don't give it a try.
Tue Feb 23, 06:58:00 AM 2010
busterggi said...
Try it today?
Its already going on every day - Jews pray to Yahweh, Christians to Jesus, Moslems to Allah, Hindus to a whole bunch of deities, etc.
But none of their gods seems to care enough to show up & demonstrate who is right (apparently none),
Tue Feb 23, 07:53:00 PM 2010
Matthew Blanchette said...
Yep; it's like one, great emptiness...
...hmmmm, I wonder why? ;-)
Sun Mar 28, 01:40:00 PM 2010
ozhamada said...
Here's ZJemptv's Mount Carmel Challenge: regarding re-enacting the Mount Carmel challenge so that atheists can be given proof of a God.......God has given everything you need already to know him (Bible, nature, a new born baby's cry etc). Science, which atheists hold in such great esteem is itself a gift from God so that we may know him. Ironically, community, including electronic communities are also a gift from God - thus you post against God on a vehicle provided by him! Projects like SAB http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ are actually assisting God's work, like really, you guys can only find that many contradictions? Like a book containing the works of so many authors is not going to contain some contradictions? You should instead be considering the question: "how many contradictions are reasonable?". Before you do that why not also question how many times you have read things too narrowly or out of context. Indeed, too much of the atheist argument is debased in that it is not based on solid academically recognised means of reasoning but instead on childish finger-pointing. Even the Atheist high priest Dawkins strays from principles of academic reasoning.
BTW: your video has the people saying "Jesus Christ"...if that was true then I'm glad they could see him as early as that time .... after all we are told in John 1:1: "In the beginning was the Word"
Wed Jul 20, 06:50:00 PM 2011
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22 February 2010Leprosy shall cleave unto thee and unto thy seed forever.
That's what Elisha said to his servant, Gehazi. And when Elisha speaks, he speaks for God.
So God gave Gehazi and all of his descendants leprosy. He had a reason, of course. He always has a reason. But it really doesn't matter what it was, does it? The punishment was unjustified no matter what the crime may have been.
But I suppose I should tell the story anyway.
It all starts out well enough, with Elisha curing a man named Naaman of leprosy by having him wash seven times in the Jordan River.
Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean. 2 Kings 5:14
Naaman offered to pay Elisha for the cure, but Elisha refused his offer. Gehazi, Elisha's servant, thought a payment was reasonable, though, so he went to talk to Naaman about it.
Gehazi told Naaman that Elisha wanted a talent of silver (about 35 kg) and two sets of clothing.
My master hath sent me, saying, Behold, even now there be come to me from mount Ephraim two young men of the sons of the prophets: give them, I pray thee, a talent of silver, and two changes of garments. 2 Kings 5:22
Naaman thought that was reasonable enough, so he gave him the silver and clothes.
When Gehazi returned, Elisha asked him where he went, and he said, "thy servant went no whither." ("I didn't go anywhere.")
But Elisha, like God, knows pretty much everything, so he knew Gehazi was lying about that. So Elisha cursed Gehazi and all of his descendants with leprosy.
The leprosy therefore of Naaman shall cleave unto thee, and unto thy seed for ever. And he went out from his presence a leper as white as snow. 2 Kings 5:27
The Bible doesn't say what became of Gehazi, whether he died because of the leprosy or not. (Although he does show up a few chapters later talking to a king, which would be unlikely for a person who was "unclean" because of leprosy.) But in those days, giving someone leprosy would be a death sentence.
Giving someone leprosy for lying is cruel and unjust; giving leprosy to the unborn future descendants of such a person is even more so. No reasonable person could think otherwise.
But did God kill anyone in this little Bible episode? Well, if God gave Gehazi and all his descendants leprosy, then some of them died because of it. But the Bible doesn't say whether Gehazi had any children, and it doesn't say what happened to Gehazi. And it is possible that "leprosy" in the Bible refers to some other type of skin disease.
So I'm not going to include this in God's killings, although it is a good story to remember. Bible believers believe that God gave Gehazi and all of his descendants some type of nasty skin disease.
Only a nasty God would do something like that.
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/22/2010 10:57:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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6 comments:
twillight said...
Uhm, the bible doesn't say what happened to Gehazi, right? So maybe his descendants exist even today? Can we check the lineage, please?
And just to mention Steve: in the Bible getting leprosy isn't fatal! You just have to make the cleansing ritual: sacrifising some animal, sprinkle some blood of it on yourself (do not wash it off!)...
Mon Feb 22, 12:02:00 PM 2010
Steve Wells said...
I guess there must be some of Gehazi's descendants alive today or Elisha's curse didn't happen. Elisha said, "The leprosy therefore of Naaman shall cleave unto thee, and unto thy seed for ever." So there must be some leprous seed of Gehazi alive today, and tomorrow, and forever.
Mon Feb 22, 12:47:00 PM 2010
busterggi said...
Bet you that Elisha kept the silver though.
Tue Feb 23, 07:57:00 PM 2010
Matthew Blanchette said...
Yep; that cheap, bald-headed bastard...
*waits to see if a she-bear will come down on his head, then continues on his way*
Sun Mar 28, 01:38:00 PM 2010
kaney said...
These men would be sorry sights. Their bodies were riddled with this horrible disease. They came as near as they might dare. Men with leprosy had to keep away from others, one hundred paces at least. Leprosy, like sin, is contagious. Crying out, they ask Jesus for mercy. This was no beautiful quiet whispered prayer. That doesn't happen when you are desperate. One of the ten, a Samaritan, saw that he was healed. The pain disappeared. The sores vanished. Jesus does not just want to deal with a specific problem or trouble. His desire is to make men whole.
Multigenics Intensive Care Fields of Flowers
Mon Feb 27, 01:24:00 AM 2012
DaughterOfZion said...
All who are posting about leprosy are ignorant about it. There is a such thing as a clean leper, which Naaman was. This is when the whole body turns completely white. Unclean leprosy is the partial sore puffy white skinned mixed with the original brown skin. You guys are so funny!
Wed Sep 25, 12:36:00 PM 2013
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22 February 2010The Lord delivered the Moabites
This is a boring one. But since the Bible gives God the credit for this killing, so will I.
Here's the story.
Elisha tells the Israelites that God will deliver the Moabites into their hand.
The LORD ... will deliver the Moabites ... into your hand. 2 Kings 3.18
And when he does, God wants the Israelites to chop down the trees, ruin the wells, and destroy the land.
Ye shall smite every fenced city, and every choice city, and shall fell every good tree, and stop all wells of water, and mar every good piece of land with stones. 3.19
So the Israelites kill the Moabites, their trees and crops, and ruin their cities and wells.
The Israelites rose up and smote the Moabites, so that they fled before them: but they went forward smiting the Moabites ... And they beat down the cities, and on every good piece of land cast every man his stone, and filled it; and they stopped all the wells of water, and felled all the good trees. 3.24-25
Finally, the Moabite king sacrificed his son as a burnt offering in a desperate attempt to stop the massacre. And it seemed to work, too, since the Israelites stopped killing after that.
Then he took his eldest son that should have reigned in his stead, and offered him for a burnt offering upon the wall. And there was great indignation against Israel: and they departed from him, and returned to their own land. 3.27
Since God helped the Israelites smite several Moabite cities, I'll guess 1000 Moabites were killed in five cities, for a total of 5000.
God's next killing: A skeptic is trampled to death
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/22/2010 08:09:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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6 comments:
Matthew Blanchette said...
Great indignation against Israel, huh? I guess somebody finally decided to stand up to their genocide...
Mon Feb 22, 09:56:00 AM 2010
skanksta said...
Yahweh won't be too happy with you if you only give him 1,000 for this one, Steve!
They were commanded to smite every fenced city and every choice city.
The (holy, inerrant), text says they "beat down their citieS" plural.
Furthermore, it's a certainty that more Moabites would have died from the deforestation and well-poisoning which were specifically instructed by Yahweh.
Judging by the apparent population of the ME at this time according to the bible, (what with armies larger than cold war Russia, more casualties in a day than on the Somme &c), you could make a case for it being millions.
I don't think it SHOULD be that high myself. I like your policy of only including the absurdly exaggerated numbers when they're given, but surely cities (pl.) suggests at least, I don't know, say, five x your usual 1,000 per city ?
Mon Feb 22, 11:02:00 AM 2010
twillight said...
Oh, Yahwe's wars back then!
How pure and smooth they went!
Look at 'em nowdays!
Iraq is a total failure. Maybe it's time to sacrifise one of the presiden't daughters?
Mon Feb 22, 11:55:00 AM 2010
skanksta said...
No!
The wars are going wrong because the US is not worshipping Yahweh properly.
I mean, how many times does he have to have his animal sacrifice instructions ignored ?!
Mon Feb 22, 01:13:00 PM 2010
Steve Wells said...
skansta: I've increased the count from 1000 to 3000 -- 1000 for 3 cities. Does that seem reasonable to you?
Thu Feb 25, 10:05:00 PM 2010
Steve Wells said...
OK, skanksta. I've upped it to 5000, but that's all I'm giving Yahweh credit for in this killing.
But check the numbers of the other killings and let me know if I should change any before they are set in stone, so to speak.
Mon Mar 29, 09:16:00 AM 2010
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21 February 2010God sent two bears to rip apart 42 boys for making fun of a prophet's bald head
After Elijah went up to heaven in a chariot of fire, his disciple Elisha put on Elijah's mantle and started to perform miracles of his own. First he parted the Jordan River by slapping it with Elijah's mantle, and then he healed some water by adding a bit of salt.
And then he decided to go to Bethel.
While he was walking along, a group of 42 young boys started to make fun of Elisha's bald head.
And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 2 Kings 2:23
So Elisha decided to try his new-found prophet powers by cursing the little buggers in the name of the Lord. Then he stood back and watched what happened.
And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. 2 Kings 2:24a
What happened must have been hard for him to watch. Two she bears came out of the woods and tore all 42 of the boys apart.
And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. 2 Kings 2:24b
The Bible doesn't say how Elisha reacted to the slaughter. It just says that he kept going on his journey to Bethel.
And he went from thence to mount Carmel, and from thence he returned to Samaria. 2 Kings 2:25
But I bet God got a kick out of the whole thing. He's the type.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See Brucker's guest post on this killing: The Bad-News Bears
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God's next killing: The Lord delivered the Moabites
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/21/2010 01:56:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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20 comments:
Matthew Blanchette said...
Glad you finally covered this Killing in your official list, Steve; wonder how the hell God managed to provoke the she-bears into only attacking the children, in the first place...
Sun Feb 21, 03:00:00 PM 2010
busterggi said...
Okay so two bears came out of the woods & attacked two of the forty-two boys and the other forty just stood there until it was their turn?
Sun Feb 21, 03:06:00 PM 2010
teavee said...
This is a minor point but maybe some of the children got away. It says some (more than 42?) children mocked him and 42 (not all 42) of them were killed. Still, you would think more would have gotten away.
Sun Feb 21, 04:09:00 PM 2010
joshua said...
I love the congruity of the last few posts: God kills 102 for suggesting to a prophet to "go down", and kills 42 for suggesting to prophet to "go up." You just can't win with these prophets.
Sun Feb 21, 04:10:00 PM 2010
twillight said...
teavee:
a holw kindergarten were there?
Even if it were, how come the bears killed 42 humans? Bears are not to good predators, but if they'd been magical bears, why stop at 42? (Well, maybe for the reason Steve pointed out: 42 is not god's favourite number). How come some adult help never arrived? Were the some "Children's of the Corn"?
Or maybe there some fence around the group of children arised what's not mentioned?
Sun Feb 21, 11:17:00 PM 2010
teavee said...
twlight:
Maybe I did not word it well but I just meant to point out that the text seems to suggest there were more than 42 suggesting that some children escaped. I actually have no idea what circumstances to assume for this story. It's too bizarre.
I have no idea how a group 42+ children from the city would end up near a forest containing bears (school field trip?). If they were young how did 42+ of them get together without adults being around and why would their mocking be taken so seriously? If they were older how did two bears get to 42 of them without an enclosure magically appearing (as you suggested) or the children being made unable to run? I would like to think all of the children at least had the freedom and could make the choice to run.
Mon Feb 22, 09:54:00 AM 2010
Abeille said...
Maybe God hardened their hearts.
My word verification is siesuar.
Is God revealing something grand to me?
Mon Feb 22, 01:33:00 PM 2010
really said...
I just read in the Scofield Bible that the she-bear only tore the youth not killed the youth. I mean they could have gone to a hospital and received medical care couldn't they???
Tue Apr 20, 06:12:00 PM 2010
Brian said...
hahahhahaha. Bears.
This website is awesome. And important. Keep it up.
Sun Jul 04, 11:22:00 PM 2010
Secular Response said...
There is a better explanation for this. Do a google search for "Roger Kovaciny" +"bald head" (not sure if a link will post here)
Fri Jul 09, 06:30:00 PM 2010
Decibel33 said...
I find something interesting, and this is probably just my brain looking for a pattern, but why 42 youths? (Emphasis on 42) Interesting how it took 42 attempts to assassinate Hitler. And the answer to the universe is, of course, 42.
Thu Aug 26, 02:03:00 PM 2010
No said...
Some day God will meet Chuck Norris and it will be payback time
Thu Mar 17, 11:06:00 AM 2011
... said...
someone please explain...to me this is evil...I personally would never wish ill will on anyone even if they made fun of me...this is just wrong...how can God do this? Just because you have the power doesn't mean you should use it. Also, there is a distinction between the developed mind of a child and an adult.
Fri Jan 27, 12:05:00 AM 2012
riffmage said...
So instead of making all the children s hair fall out for a month or so to teach them a lesson. He has the bear kill them and they learn nothing because they are DEAD. Your god fails again.
Wed Aug 01, 02:57:00 PM 2012
Chris Jones said...
This scripture actually disturbed me quite a bit. One day, however, I was watching a round table discussion of the Bible and this scripture came up. In the King James Version, it reads that "two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them." The Bible Scholars gave a very simple explanation for this story. They said that the word, "tare" was essentially an archaic form of the word, "scare." So literally, the bears came and "scared" forty two of the children.
Sun Sep 02, 01:57:00 PM 2012
Maria F said...
In the original language, the word for children or youths may refer to anyone under thirty. These were not just some little kids being disrespectful. They were likely adults who knew full well this was a prophet, and as idol-worshipers, they were mocking God.
Sun Sep 16, 10:53:00 PM 2012
Lt. Coldfire said...
We need these bears up in Congress right about now.
Fri Dec 28, 10:59:00 AM 2012
chuckchizzle said...
If there where a kind, moral, just person/god they would not kill kids. that is for sure.
Its only when you cherry pick the bible is when you find the morals..but people seem to pass all the murder and rap. god kils more people in the Bible than the most "evil thing" satin
Mon May 20, 12:15:00 PM 2013
Unknown said...
What we see here is the earliest documented case of a street gang. Samuel L Jackson will play Elisha in the movie adaptation.
Elisha was walking along minding his own business when a bunch of hoodlums came along and said "Hey baldy. Yeah you. I'm talking to you bald motherf**ker. Get the f**k outta here." Elisha looked up unto the sky and said unto the lord "I have had it up to here with these motherf**king punks on this motherf**king road". Just then two bears come out and as they are tearing the punks limb to limb he said unto them "That's PROPHET Bald Motherf**ker to you" and went along his merry way.
Fri Jul 05, 09:22:00 PM 2013
Teri 9 said...
- The original word incorrectly translated as "little children" meant "youth" - meaning anyone (in those days) under the age of 30. These were not children, they were men.
- Elisha was not the bald one. Elijah was. The young men were scoffing at God's prophet, taunting him to "go up" (into heaven" "bad head" (like Elijah did). God will not be mocked.
- Do you remember the exchange between Ahab and Elijah at the end of the three year drought? Ahab asked the prophet, “Art thou he that troubleth Israel?” And Elijah replied, “I have no troubled Israel; but thou, and they father’s house, in that ye have forsaken the commandments of the Lord. . . “ (1 Kings 18:17-18) By himself Elijah had no power to create a drought, call down fire from heaven, bring about the end of Ahab and his house, or punish or destroy Israel. It was the wickedness of Israel that created the chaos and calamity. In some cases the Lord intervened to punish directly. In others he simply let the laws he gave the world run their course. Elijah knew what he prophesied only because he was the one chosen to reveal it. Who would think that idolatry could lead people to break as many other laws as it did in Elijah’s day?
It is easy to look back and see how foolish Ahab, Jezebel, and the Israelites who halted between two opinions were. But what of today? Are men still inclined to vacillate between serving God and serving the devil? Do they still want to hear only good things about their evil choices? Do they still tend to place the blame for life’s reversals on someone else? Or will they learn the eternal fact that men reap precisely what they sow? “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting” (Galatians 6:8, “Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.”) Mockery is a sin, and such conduct is displeasing in the sight of God. That is one lesson that the story of Elisha and the scoffers of Bethel reinforces.
"Dwindling" you are. You might want to reconsider turning around and repenting.
We all might.
Sat Jul 06, 03:40:00 AM 2013
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21 February 2010God killed king Ahaziah (of Israel) for asking the wrong god
In his last killing , God burned 102 men to death (in two shifts of 51 each) for asking Elijah to come down from his hill. The problem, I guess, was not so much in what they asked, but in how they asked it. The first two times, the captain asked directly, and God burned them all to death. The third time the captain groveled first and asked later, and that worked out fine. There’s a lesson there somewhere.
There was a reason, though, that Ahaziah wanted Elijah to come down from his hill. He wanted to ask Elijah to ask God if he was going to recover from his illness. And now that the third group of 51 got Elijah to come down from his hill, Ahaziah could ask Elijah to ask God about it.
[But Elijah had already told Ahaziah (via messengers) back in 2 Kings 1.6 that God was going to kill him for asking the wrong god, so I don't know why he had to send the three sets of 51 to asked Elijah again. I guess he wanted Elijah to come down and give him the message directly.]
In any case, Elijah came down the mountain to talk to the king.
He arose, and went down with him unto the king. 2 Kings 1.15
Here's what Elijah told the king (again).
Thus saith the LORD, Forasmuch as thou hast sent messengers to enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron, is it not because there is no God in Israel to enquire of his word? therefore thou shalt not come down off that bed on which thou art gone up, but shalt surely die. 1.16
And in the next verse, king Ahaziah dies "according to the word of the Lord."
So he died according to the word of the LORD which Elijah had spoken. 1.17
God's next killing: two bears rip apart 42 boys for making fun of a prophet’s bald head
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/21/2010 12:10:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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4 comments:
Matthew Blanchette said...
So, God commits regicide; why is Elijah not jailed as an accomplice, again?
Sun Feb 21, 02:49:00 PM 2010
busterggi said...
I guess an apologise for Baalzebub would explain that king Ahaziah's prayer was answered but the answer was no because Baalzebub works in mysterious ways.
Sun Feb 21, 03:09:00 PM 2010
Daniel said...
I wonder how the apologetics deal with obvious passages like this that clearly indicate there are OTHER gods? Even though this is explicit in the first commandment, there's nothing like some actual stories that name names and show their godly rivalry.
Sun Feb 21, 05:25:00 PM 2010
skanksta said...
Agreed Daniel, I always thought it was funny even @ 10 years old, that when Moses and Aaron have a 'god-off' with the Pharaoh's priests, they can do quite a tidy bit of magic themselves !
Even Baal worshippers seem able to pull of the odd rain dance.
If only we had Brucker still - he said these were probably done by 'evil spirits'!
The logic of that vs. an (ahem) omnipotent god makes your brain ache, lol.
Mon Feb 22, 02:48:00 PM 2010
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21 February 2010God burned 102 men to death for asking Elijah to come down from his hill
King Ahaziah (of Israel) became ill after falling though a lattice floor. So he sent some messengers to ask Baalzebub if he would recover.
Ahaziah fell down through a lattice in his upper chamber that was in Samaria, and was sick: and he sent messengers, and said unto them, Go, enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron whether I shall recover of this disease. 2 Kings 1.2
Then an angel told Elijah to tell some messengers to tell Ahaziah that God would kill him for asking the wrong god.
The angel ... said to Elijah ... Arise, go up to meet the messengers ... and say unto them, Is it not because there is not a God in Israel, that ye go to enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron? Now therefore thus saith the LORD, Thou shalt not come down from that bed ... but shalt surely die. 1.3-4
So the messengers returned and delivered the message to king Ahaziah.
The messengers … said unto him, There came a man up to meet us, and said unto us, Go, turn again unto the king that sent you, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Is it not because there is not a God in Israel, that thou sendest to enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron? therefore thou shalt not come down from that bed on which thou art gone up, but shalt surely die. 1.5-6
Ahaziah asked them what the guy who gave them the message looked like. They said he was "a hairy man" with "leather about his loins."
What manner of man was he which came up to meet you, and told you these words? And they answered him, He was an hairy man, and girt with a girdle of leather about his loins. 1.7
When the king heard that, he knew it was Elijah. Nobody dresses like Elijah!
He said, It is Elijah. 1.8
So the king sent a captain and fifty men to go find Elijah. They found him sitting on top of a hill and said to him, "Come down."
Then the king sent unto him a captain of fifty with his fifty. And he went up to him: and, behold, he sat on the top of an hill. And he spake unto him, Thou man of God, the king hath said, Come down. 1.9
Which I guess was the wrong thing to say, judging from Elijah's response.
Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. 1.10a
And that's what happened. Fire came down from heaven and burned the 51 guys to death.
There came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty. 1.10b
I'm not sure how Ahaziah found out about all this, but he did, and he sent another captain and 50 men to try again.
Again also he sent unto him another captain of fifty with his fifty. 1.11a
They found Elijah sitting on top of the same hill and the captain told him the same thing: "Come down quickly." (I guess they added the quickly for emphasis.)
He … said unto him, O man of God, thus hath the king said, Come down quickly. 1.11b
Elijah responded in the usual way.
Elijah answered and said unto them, If I be a man of God, let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. 1.12a
You probably can guess what happened next.
The fire of God came down from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty. 1.12b
Once again the king found out what had happened. So he sent another captain with 50 men. (I guess he figured it worked out well the first two times.)
He sent again a captain of the third fifty with his fifty. 1.13a
But this time the captain didn't ask Elijah to come down. He got on his knees and groveled in front of Elijah, begging him not to burn him to death.
The third captain of fifty went up, and came and fell on his knees before Elijah … and said unto him, O man of God, I pray thee, let my life, and the life of these fifty thy servants, be precious in thy sight. Behold, there came fire down from heaven, and burnt up the two captains of the former fifties with their fifties: therefore let my life now be precious in thy sight. 1.13b-14
And that worked a lot better. Elijah came down the off his hill and went with them to see Ahaziah -- which I guess is what Ahaziah wanted him to do in the first place.
The angel of the LORD said unto Elijah, Go down with him: be not afraid of him. And he arose, and went down with him unto the king. 1.15
So the moral of the story is this: If you see a hairy man dressed in a leather loin cloth sitting on top of a hill, don't ask him to come down (unless you grovel first) or God will burn you to death.
God's next killing: God killed king Ahaziah for asking the wrong God
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/21/2010 09:51:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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8 comments:
twillight said...
Steve, this should be 2 killings: one for the first group, another for the second.
And just to mention, this story was that I found no reason in it at all. Why this cruelity? Why the test of god? Why not going down after the test reached success? Why repeat? Why sending troops three times? 50 soldier in that time was enough to conquer a city, dammit!
Sun Feb 21, 01:41:00 PM 2010
Steve Wells said...
Yeah, you're right, twillight. It should be two killings. But the two are so similar that I decided to treat them as one, because I didn't want to have to tell the story twice in two posts.
But I suppose I could call them God's 86th and 87th killings.
If any of you feel strongly about it, let me know.
Sun Feb 21, 01:55:00 PM 2010
Matthew Blanchette said...
So... I'm guessing Elijah, despite being a hairy and dirty old man who lives in the wilderness, is proud enough to have soldiers grovel before him before he can come down from his hill.
Whatever the hell happened to "pride goeth before a fall"?
Sun Feb 21, 02:47:00 PM 2010
busterggi said...
Just to let you know, if I'd been the third captain I'd have had my archers shoot that bastard prophet & saved myself & my king a lot of trouble.
Sun Feb 21, 03:12:00 PM 2010
skanksta said...
Hilarious.
Sorry to be a pain, but I think you really should at least label it god's 86th and 87th killing.
No need to do it another post tho', for sure.
Sun Feb 21, 05:14:00 PM 2010
Abeille said...
I'm with twilight on this one: this should be counted as two seperate killings.
Sun Feb 21, 07:59:00 PM 2010
Steve Wells said...
OK, I've made it two killings.
Damn, it's a tough job being God's scorekeeper!
Sun Feb 21, 09:22:00 PM 2010
skanksta said...
I bet it is, but humanity is grateful to you...
Once you've finished, done 'god approved' killings, get through the Koran, you can turn to...
Yahweh's animal killings !
That would truly be a lifetime's work.
Mon Feb 22, 02:51:00 PM 2010
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19 February 2010Josiah killed all the priests of the high places
Josiah was the king of religious intolerance. He “put down” the priests that burned incense to the sun, moon, planets, and stars.
He put down the idolatrous priests ... that burned incense unto Baal, to the sun, and to the moon, and to the planets, and to all the host of heaven. 2 Kings 23.5
He burned the Asherah pole (the “grove” in the KJV) and spread the ashes on the graves of the children.
And he brought out the grove …and burned it … and stamped it small to powder, and cast the powder thereof upon the graves of the children of the people. 2 Kings 23.6
He destroyed the houses of the temple homosexuals.
He brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove. 2 Kings 23.7
And he executed the priests and burned human bones upon their altars.
He slew all the priests of the high places that were there upon the altars, and burned men's bones upon them. 2 Kings 23.20
This was all in accordance with the prophecy of “the man of God from Judah.”
There came a man of God out of Judah by the word of the LORD ... and he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee. 1 Kings 13.1-2
God's next killing: Just another holy war
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/19/2010 04:37:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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19 February 2010God killed Ahab for not killing a captured king
In God's last killing, he sent a lion to kill a man for not smiting a prophet when the prophet asked him to. But the next guy that came along was willing to do it, so the prophet was able to put ashes on his face and have a proper disguise for his meeting with King Ahab.
When King Ahab passed by, the prophet (with his cool disguise) said to him:
Thy servant went out into the midst of the battle; and, behold, a man turned aside, and brought a man unto me, and said, Keep this man: if by any means he be missing, then shall thy life be for his life, or else thou shalt pay a talent of silver. And as thy servant was busy here and there, he was gone. 1 Kings 20.39-40a
Which, of course, was complete bullshit. God's prophet was not only crazy, but a liar, as well.
King Ahab played along, though, and said, "OK, whatever."
The king of Israel said unto him, So shall thy judgment be; thyself hast decided it. 20:40b
Then the prophet wiped off the ashes on his face and revealed his true identity. He was a prophet! (It's really hard to tell a prophet when he has ashes on his face.)
He … took the ashes away from his face; and the king of Israel discerned him that he was of the prophets. 20.41
And then the prophet told King Ahab the bad news. God was going to kill the king (and his family, of course) for letting king Benhadad live. (See 1 Kings 20.34)
Thus saith the LORD, Because thou hast let go out of thy hand a man whom I appointed to utter destruction, therefore thy life shall go for his life, and thy people for his people. 20.42
And that's what happened. God carefully arranged things so that King Ahab would die while fighting the Syrians.
The battle increased that day: and the king [Ahab] was stayed up in his chariot against the Syrians, and died at even: and the blood ran out of the wound into the midst of the chariot. 22.35
And that is God's last killing in 1 Kings 20. (Five in one chapter!)
God's next killing: 102 men burn to death for asking Elijah to come down from his hill
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/19/2010 12:43:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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5 comments:
twillight said...
All the latest killings could have been prevented if the man'd smitten the prophet with an axe right at the beggining...
Fri Feb 19, 03:19:00 PM 2010
liminalD said...
Now that is messed up :/
Fri Feb 19, 03:38:00 PM 2010
Matthew Blanchette said...
True, twilight, but what if he'd accidentally killed the prophet? What would God do, then?
Granted, the prophet, in real life, was probably a delusional nutcase who though God directed every course of his life (like a less-sympathetic Joan of Arc), but that still doesn't mean the Bible writers themselves had to write in a plot hole the size of freakin' Belgium.
Also, am I the only one here who, for the life of him, cannot make sense of what the prophet tells Ahab under his disguise? It's got so many references to so many different people who are never clarified that the whole thing's just one, big jumbled mess...
...kind of like the whole Bible, itself, in fact.
Fri Feb 19, 07:29:00 PM 2010
twillight said...
Well, Matthew: that god could not do anythings else, but trusting the case on another prophet of him. Then you smite that with the axe too and so on, until no more follower of that bastard remains, and that way you get rid of that god.
Things in the bible are already messed up enough with the god in it going around doing stuff, we don't need any other character going around doing things in his name.
Sat Feb 20, 02:43:00 AM 2010
Matthew Blanchette said...
Yeah; we've already got enough people doing that in today's world... ;-)
By the way, if there's anyone wondering who I am: I'm matt311 under a new name; hope you don't mind.
Sat Feb 20, 04:47:00 PM 2010
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19 February 2010God sent a lion to kill a man for not smiting a prophet
I don't completely understand God's thinking on this one. Maybe a believer can explain it.
It all happens fast, in just two verses. Here's a summary:
A "son of a prophet" asked a "neighbor in the word of the Lord" to smite him.
A certain man of the sons of the prophets said unto his neighbour in the word of the LORD, Smite me, I pray thee. 1 Kings 20.35a
The neighbor refused.
And the man refused to smite him. 20.35b
So God sent a lion to kill him.
Then said he unto him, Because thou hast not obeyed the voice of the LORD, behold, as soon as thou art departed from me, a lion shall slay thee. And as soon as he was departed from him, a lion found him, and slew him. 20.36
It turns out, though, that there was some reason to the prophet's madness. The prophet wanted a good disguise when he met King Ahab, and he figured a wound would help. So he wanted his neighbor to cut his face, so he could put a bandage on it, so King Ahab wouldn't recognize him when he saw him. Or something like that.
(I don't know why the prophet couldn't just put a bandage on his face or a bag over his head to disguise himself. And I'm not sure why the disguise was necessary anyway. But I guess it was all very important to God.)
Anyway, the bat-shit crazy prophet found another guy who was willing to smite him.
Then he found another man, and said, Smite me, I pray thee. And the man smote him, so that in smiting he wounded him. 20.37
And so the prophet got his costume ready for his meeting with King Ahab.
So the prophet departed, and waited for the king by the way, and disguised himself with ashes upon his face. 20.38
Which leads us to God's next killing.
God's next killing: God killed Ahab for not killing a captured king
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/19/2010 09:16:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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7 comments:
psybermonkey said...
This one I wasn't too sure of either, because of the lack of detail. However, it seems clear enough to label as unjust and just plain ridiculous. I suppose the moral of this story is to do whatever is commanded of you by god or his prophets.
Fri Feb 19, 09:57:00 AM 2010
Steve Wells said...
" I suppose the moral of this story is to do whatever is commanded of you by god or his prophets."
Yeah, I suppose that's it, but what if you obeyed and smote (smited?) the prophet? Would God send a lion to eat you for smiting his prophet? He send a couple of bears to rip up 42 little boys for making fun of a prophet's bald head. Maybe it's a lion for disobeying a prophet and bears for making fun of them.
It's probably best to just stay the hell away from God and his prophets.
Fri Feb 19, 10:16:00 AM 2010
Robert said...
The rest of the story ... This "son of the prophet" wanted to deceive King Ahab (and presumably YAHWEH wanted to deceive him as well). Why? To see if he would kill someone who let a captive free. The king does not kill the lying prophet (who says he let a captive free) so YAHWEH kills the king. 1 Kings 20:37-43
Apparently the first guy should have known that this son of a prophet had a master plan of deception - approved by God - and anyone who does not support the plan would be punished with immediate death. After all, God has a right to know if someone will kill someone who gave mercy to someone else who did not deserve mercy ... and if he wants you to deceive people to find out, well you better do it!
I tell you honestly. I don't see how this can be good.
Fri Feb 19, 10:29:00 AM 2010
Steve Wells said...
I agree, Robert.
I should probably add something about "the rest of the story" -- which leads to God's next killing: king Ahab.
Fri Feb 19, 10:39:00 AM 2010
skanksta said...
smited is wrong, but sounds better than smote !
Fri Feb 19, 04:04:00 PM 2010
Matthew Blanchette said...
Wow; that's a crazy-ass convoluted plan... neither rhyme nor reason to it.
Fri Feb 19, 07:22:00 PM 2010
4bd7d1b2-d11b-11e2-be49-000f20980440 said...
When the prophet (who was also recognized by the king) said to his neighbor (this man knew him and his office) "by the word of the LORD" he was telling him that this was "authorized" by God. This man chose to "disobey" God's command and was made an example of.
Sun Jun 09, 08:43:00 AM 2013
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19 February 2010God killed 27,000 Syrians with a falling wall
In his last killing, God killed the 100,000 Syrians for calling him a hill god. But some of the name-calling Syrians escaped. God took care of them by having a wall fall on them, killing 27,000.
But the rest fled to Aphek, into the city; and there a wall fell upon twenty and seven thousand of the men that were left. 1 Kings 20.30a
It was a really big wall.
Note: Benhadad (the king of Syria) somehow managed to escape the falling wall.
And Benhadad fled, and came into the city, into an inner chamber. 1 Kings 20.30b
He asked Ahab to let him live, offering to restore the cities that Syria had previously taken from Israel.
Thy servant Benhadad saith, I pray thee, let me live … And Ben-hadad said unto him, The cities, which my father took from thy father, I will restore; and thou shalt make streets for thee in Damascus, as my father made in Samaria. 1 Kings 20.32-34a
So Ahab made a treaty with Benhadad and let him live.
Then said Ahab, I will send thee away with this covenant. So he made a covenant with him, and sent him away. 1 Kings 20.34 b
God would later kill him and his family (see here, here, here, here, and here) for this act of mercy.
God's next killing: God sent a lion to kill a man for not smiting a prophet
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/19/2010 07:53:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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Matthew Blanchette said...
Somehow, I'm imagining that wall dropping down like a skyscraper on the Crimson Permanent Assurance building...
Fri Feb 19, 07:18:00 PM 2010
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19 February 2010The drought of Elijah
The story of Elijah begins with a drought.
Elijah … said unto Ahab, As the LORD God of Israel liveth, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, but according to my word. 1 Kings 17.1
And according to 1 Kings, the drought ended in its third year (so it lasted more than two but less than three years).
The LORD came to Elijah in the third year, saying, Go, shew thyself unto Ahab; and I will send rain upon the earth. 1 Kings 18.1
But if you believe the New Testament authors, the drought lasted for 3 years and six months, during which time there was no rain anywhere on earth.
In the days of Elias [Elijah]…the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land. Luke 4.25
Elias [Elijah]… prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit. James 5.17-18
The Bible doesn’t say why the drought occurred; apparently it was just to get Elijah’s prophecy career off to a good start. But if the book of James is right and it didn’t rain anywhere on earth for 3 and a half years, then many people must have died of starvation.
I’ll just guess that 3,000 people starved to death (1000 per year) in God’s promotional campaign for Ellijah.
God's next killing: 450 Religious Leaders Killed in a Prayer Contest
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/19/2010 05:03:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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19 February 2010Solomon carries out the deathbed wish of David by having Joab and Shimei murdered
You can tell a lot about a person by his or her last words. Take David’s last words, for example.
David asked his son Solomon to murder Joab for him.
Now the days of David drew nigh that he should die; and he charged Solomon his son, saying … thou knowest also what Joab the son of Zeruiah did to me … let not his hoar head go down to the grave in peace. 1 Kings 2.1-6
So Solomon sent Benaiah to murder Joab.
It was told king Solomon that Joab was fled unto the tabernacle of the LORD; and, behold, he is by the altar. Then Solomon sent Benaiah … saying, Go, fall upon him … So Benaiah … fell upon him, and slew him. 2 Kings 2.29-34
And another person that David asked his son to murder was Shimei.
Thou hast with thee Shimei … which cursed me with a grievous curse in the day when I went to Mahanaim: but he came down to meet me at Jordan, and I sware to him by the LORD, saying, I will not put thee to death with the sword. Now therefore hold him not guiltless: for thou art a wise man, and knowest what thou oughtest to do unto him; but his hoar head bring thou down to the grave with blood. 1 Kings 2.8-9
So Solomon sent Benaiah to “fall on” Shimei, too.
So the king commanded Benaiah ... which went out, and fell upon him, that he died. 1 Kings 2.44-46
God, of course, wanted these people murdered, too. God approved of everything David did, except for the matter of Uriah (1 Kings 15.5).
God's next killing: A tale of two prophets
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/19/2010 03:41:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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18 February 2010God killed 100,000 Syrians for calling him a God of the hills
Don't call God a God of the hills. He really doesn't like it.
The Syrians called him that.
The servants of the king of Syria said unto him, Their gods are gods of the hills; therefore they were stronger than we; but let us fight against them in the plain, and surely we shall be stronger than they. 1 Kings 20.23
Then an anonymous "man of God" told the king of Israel (Ahab) that God would slaughter the Syrians for calling him a hill god and, by so doing, show Ahab that he is the Lord.
There came a man of God, and spake unto the king of Israel, and said, Thus saith the LORD, Because the Syrians have said, The LORD is God of the hills, but he is not God of the valleys, therefore will I deliver all this great multitude into thine hand, and ye shall know that I am the LORD. 20.28
So God delivered the Syrians into Ahab's hand and the Israelites killed 100,000 in one day.
And the children of Israel slew of the Syrians an hundred thousand footmen in one day. 20.29
(That's about twice as many as were killed in the three-day Battle of Gettysburg. But then, God wasn't involved in that one. He couldn't make up his mind which side he was on.)
God's next killing: God killed 27,000 Syrians with a falling wall
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/18/2010 12:02:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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9 comments:
twillight said...
That wall-thing is one of my favourites :)
Would Adonai send a wall in e-mail nowdays? Then we could call him Wall-E. (I try to refer to that stupid cartoon if it's not obvious.)
Thu Feb 18, 12:30:00 PM 2010
skanksta said...
Just when you think he's come off his period, he gets stuck in to another 127,000 murders !
Thu Feb 18, 02:49:00 PM 2010
busterggi said...
Now is this the same Yahweh that is worshipped today in many churches named El Shaddai (god of the hills of Shaddai)?
If so, when did he change his mind?
Thu Feb 18, 04:58:00 PM 2010
Daniel said...
"It was a really big wall."
Egads, that is laugh out loud funny. I'm going to tell this one to my kids (17 and 14) and I am sure I will get their usual bible-story reaction: they'll be giggling and laughing and challenging me to prove it, because they'll think I am just making it up.
God. Yer ridiculous.
Thu Feb 18, 06:39:00 PM 2010
Abeille said...
Noticed some mistypes.
The first quote has a capital "I" in kings.
Two lines below that, God is going to show Ahab that He is the Lord?
(*that and *He?)
Then the link in the next quote, 1 Kings 20:28
Thu Feb 18, 07:05:00 PM 2010
Steve Wells said...
Thanks for the corrections, Abeille.
Thu Feb 18, 07:12:00 PM 2010
Matthew Blanchette said...
This is nearly the exact same story as the previous Killing... save for the fact that in this one, God doesn't like one of the many names that people in that time called him.
Ah, creativity.
Fri Feb 19, 07:17:00 PM 2010
skanksta said...
Atheist proof number 57.
Last night I concentrated hard as follows....
I concentrated all my mind on seeking out God. I said, "God, you have no power over me at all on the plains - why, you're just a god of the hills! - what do you think about that?" Finally, (and I wish I had one of those cool linky things - Steve?), I cursed the holy ghost.
Then, I slept in my dreadful corporate quarters - next to the edge of an abandoned factory, which is slowly being demolished - RIGHT NEXT TO A HUGE WALL THAT COULD EASILY FALL DOWN.
I'm still here - woo !
Sat Feb 20, 12:06:00 AM 2010
Matt S said...
That's a zinger re: Gettysburg
Tue Feb 23, 06:09:00 AM 2010
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18 February 2010The first God-assisted slaughter of the Syrians
This is a fairly simple story.
A nameless prophet tells King Ahab that God will deliver the "great multitude" of Syrians into his hand that very day, just to let Ahab know that "God is the Lord."
There came a prophet unto Ahab king of Israel, saying, Thus saith the LORD, Hast thou seen all this great multitude? behold, I will deliver it into thine hand this day; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD. 1 Kings 20.13
So Ahab rounded up 232 princes and 7000 "children of Israel" and went off to fight the "great multitude" of Syrians.
Then he numbered the young men of the princes of the provinces, and they were two hundred and thirty two: and after them he numbered all the people, even all the children of Israel, being seven thousand. 20.15
They went out at noon while the Syrian king Benhadad was busy "drinking himself drunk" with the help of 32 other kings.
They went out at noon. But Benhadad was drinking himself drunk in the pavilions, he and the kings, the thirty and two kings that helped him. 20.16
Benhadad must have taken his orders from a different God, though, because he told his soldiers not to kill any prisoners. (The God of the Bible would never allow that. In fact, Ahab will later be killed by God for not killing Benhadad when he takes him prisoner.)
He said, Whether they be come out for peace, take them alive; or whether they be come out for war, take them alive. 20.18
So the Israelites go out and kill lots of Syrians with a "great slaughter."
They slew every one his man: and the Syrians fled; and Israel pursued them ... And the king of Israel ... slew the Syrians with a great slaughter. 20.20-21
And now we all know for sure that God is the Lord.
(Who else would be so proud of killing so many people?) I guessed 10,000 for this one since it was a "great slaughter."
God's next killing: God killed 100,000 Syrians for calling him a God of the hills
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/18/2010 11:00:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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7 comments:
busterggi said...
If the death totals given in that book were true the region would have been completely unpopulated within a few years.
Not exactly a match to historical reality.
Thu Feb 18, 04:55:00 PM 2010
Abeille said...
The first quote is 1 Kings 20:13
The second quote is 1 Kings 20:15
The last quote is 1 Kings 20:20-21
Thu Feb 18, 07:19:00 PM 2010
Steve Wells said...
Thanks again, Abeille!
Thu Feb 18, 09:20:00 PM 2010
skanksta said...
I don't envy keeping your list in order Steve !
How amazing is it, that you've been documenting Yahweh's murders for, what, two years ? and you're STILL missing mass murders !?
How many do you give this ? Gotta be more than the 1,000 for a normal slaughter ? It's a "great multitude" and each one kills at least a man - I say 10,000....
Fri Feb 19, 01:37:00 AM 2010
Steve Wells said...
Actually, skanksta, it's lots of fun! I just wonder why no one has done this before. (Or maybe everyone has a list like this; they just don't talk about it.)
I think you're right about the "great multitude," though. If God can kill 27,000 with a falling wall, then a great multitude has to be at least 10,000. I'll change it.
Fri Feb 19, 07:09:00 AM 2010
skanksta said...
Glad you enjoy it, 'cos your blog is the only thing I have to look forward to at the end of a dull day's training cours in the frozen, miserable North of England.
You're like a murder list machine at the moment!
Fri Feb 19, 01:53:00 PM 2010
Matthew Blanchette said...
"Thus saith the LORD, Hast thou seen all this great multitude? behold, I will deliver it into thine hand this day; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD."
...when he lays his vengeance upon you?
Seriously; that was just asking for it.
Also, God killing rulers who don't kill prisoners makes me wonder how he'd have liked the Nazis...
Fri Feb 19, 06:57:00 PM 2010
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17 February 2010Baasha's family and friends
Remember how God made Jeroboam king and then killed his son and the rest of his family because he didn't like something that Jeroboam did? Yeah, well, he's at it again.
This time it's king Baasha that he's is pissed off about. Baasha became king by killing Jeroboam's son and then slaughtered the rest of Jeroboam's family, "according to the saying of the Lord."
Now you'd think that God would thank Baasha for doing his dirty work for him. But if so, you'd be wrong about that. God was angry at Baasha for killing Jeroboam's family, even though he apparently inspired him to do it. God works in really creepy ways.
God made his plans known in the usual way: he sent a prophet (Jehu) to tell Baasha the bad news.
Then the word of the LORD came to Jehu the son of Hanani against Baasha, saying, Forasmuch as I exalted thee out of the dust, and made thee prince over my people Israel; and thou hast walked in the way of Jeroboam, and hast made my people Israel to sin, to provoke me to anger with their sins; Behold, I will take away the posterity of Baasha, and the posterity of his house; and will make thy house like the house of Jeroboam the son of Nebat. Him that dieth of Baasha in the city shall the dogs eat; and him that dieth of his in the fields shall the fowls of the air eat. 1 Kings 16:1-4
Yep, that's right. God will kill everyone in Baasha's family and feed their bodies to the dogs and birds.
But God doesn't do anything to Baasha. He just waits for him to die and then has his family slaughtered to teach him a lesson. (The best way to teach a man a lesson is to kill his family after he dies.)
So Baasha slept with his fathers, and was buried in Tirzah: and Elah his son reigned in his stead. 1 Kings 16:6
After Baasha died, his son Elah was king for two years. Then God got to work on his next mass murder.
One of Elah's captains (Zimri) was selected by God to do the killing. First he killed Elah (while he was "drinking himself drunk") and then all of Baasha's family and friends -- all those that pissed against a wall, anyway.
His servant Zimri, captain of half his chariots, conspired against him, ... drinking himself drunk. ... And Zimri went in and smote him, and killed him ... and reigned in his stead. ...
And it came to pass, when he began to reign, as soon as he sat on his throne, that he slew all the house of Baasha: he left him not one that pisseth against a wall, neither of his kinsfolks, nor of his friends. Thus did Zimri destroy all the house of Baasha, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake against Baasha by Jehu the prophet. 1 Kings 16:9-12
So God had all of Baasha's wall-pissing friends and family killed. It doesn't say how many that was, so I'll just guess 20: 10 friends and 10 family members.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since I'm not having much luck getting apologists to defend God's killings, I thought I'd add a note from one of my favorite Bibles, the Quest Study Bible (QSB). Here's what they say about God's 80th killing. (p. 492)
Why did God punish Baasha? (16:7)
Baasha's violence accomplished God's purpose, but that one act did not make him a servant of God. God held him accountable for his evil intentions, not for inadvertently full fulling God's will. Baasha had wiped out Jeroboam's clan to increase his power base, not to honor God.
[Note that the editors of the QSB don't deny that God wanted Baasha to kill Jeroboam's family. In fact, they clearly believe that the slaughter was a good and noble act. The problem, they say, was Baasha's intention (which, by the way, the Bible says nothing about). If Baasha had of massacred Jeroboam's family to "honor God," it would have been (in their warped minds) a wonderful, virtuous act! You have to have the right intention when you slaughter a family for God.
But because Baasha didn't have the proper intention when performing the mass murder, God was forced to have someone else (Zimri) murder Baasha's family and friends. One holy mass murder leads to another.
But I guess Zimri didn't have the right intention either when he slaughtered Baasha's family and friends, so he burned himself to death because he did "evil in the sight of the LORD." But that's another story.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God's next killing: Zimri burns to death
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/17/2010 11:48:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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10 comments:
busterggi said...
Again the pissing against the wall thing.
Good thing we have trees where i live.
Wed Feb 17, 04:09:00 PM 2010
skanksta said...
Steve, can't you email Brucker and tell him how much everyone misses him?
I've been trying some apologetics, but it's just so damn hard to come up with anything convincing.
What about that Robert guy - "I am that believer" (lol) ? Brilliant tho' your blog undoubtedly is, it lacks a little spice without a few deluded nutjobs explaining that this is all in fact divine and holy.
Thu Feb 18, 01:49:00 AM 2010
twillight said...
I though pissing is only allowed against your own car's wheels on streets. (those are not walls either)
Thu Feb 18, 04:37:00 AM 2010
Steve Wells said...
You had me fooled for a while, skanksta. I thought maybe we had a new believer around here.
But I don't know what happened to the believers. I guess they don't like to think about things that they don't like to think about.
Thu Feb 18, 07:47:00 AM 2010
Robert said...
@skanksta
I'm still here ... reading every post. :-) I don't pretend to have answers for the mass genocides, rapes and killings, but I *am* searching and *if* I find a suitable reason for their existence in the Bible, I'll be your next Brucker! If I don't find a suitable reason, I'll be an ex-Christian.
Thu Feb 18, 12:45:00 PM 2010
Robert said...
One more thing skanksta, it wouldn't hurt to try to be polite. Name calling just makes you look bad.
Thu Feb 18, 12:49:00 PM 2010
skanksta said...
Robert,
I stand corrected !
Please excuse my abrasive style of discourse - it's easy to forget when you're online that real people with real feelings might be hurt by throwaway remarks. No offence intended by the "deluded nutjob" comment. I DO stand by it - that's how people talk round my way - but I'll try and tone it down in future.
You're a gentlemen for replying.
Thu Feb 18, 02:46:00 PM 2010
busterggi said...
Heck Shansta, you oughta read the stuff our sweet Davey used to post here.
Thu Feb 18, 05:00:00 PM 2010
skanksta said...
Yeah Buster, I saw some of that - I don't go in for all that "PSYCHOFUCKTARD" nonsense, lol !
The point is Robert, I have no frame of reference for anyone actually BELIEVING in this stuff. In Britain, religion is a bit like homosexuality in the 80s - probably a lot more of them about than you realise, but they're too embarrassed to 'come out' for fear of ridicule or discrimination. I read this blog ONLY because it's funny.
However, I realise that if you grew up
1- thinking god is good + loves you
2- thinking god really exists
3- having god exist 'for you' in a meaningful way
then REALLY READING the ACTUAL TEXT of the holy book this belief is based on must be very upsetting indeed.
The last thing Robert - or any other believer open-minded enough to engage this blog - needs is me glibly insulting him.
It must be horrible confronting this egomaniac wargod - so obviously invented by primitive men with primitive morals.
I imagine it must be akin to catching your dad screwing the neighbours wife or something !
Fri Feb 19, 01:28:00 AM 2010
Matthew Blanchette said...
I find it hilarious how the Quest Study Bible tries to justify Zimri's murder of Baasha's entire family, because, really, the whole account just stinks of historical revisionism; in a sense, Zimri saying, "Oh! I slaughtered Baasha and his family because God told me to! What? You ask why I waited so long until after Baasha's death to do so? Heh-heh; the LORD works in mysterious ways! DON'T QUESTION MY AUTHORITY!!! You, get that down..."
Fri Feb 19, 06:52:00 PM 2010
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15 February 2010Jeroboam's son: God kills another child
The story begins with a sick child, Abijah the son of king Jeroabom.
At that time Abijah the son of Jeroboam fell sick. 1 Kings 14:1
Jeroboam was worried about his son, so he told his wife to go ask the blind prophet Ahijah what will become of him.
And Jeroboam said to his wife, Arise, I pray thee, and disguise thyself ... and get thee to Shiloh: behold, there is Ahijah the prophet, which told me that I should be king over this people ... He shall tell thee what shall become of the child. 1 Kings 14:2-3
(Why did Jeroboam tell his wife to disguise herself? Would it matter much to a blind prophet?)
So she went to Ahijah's house.
And Jeroboam's wife did so, and arose, and went to Shiloh, and came to the house of Ahijah. 1 Kings 14:4a
Before her visit, God came to tell Ahijah that Jeroboam's wife would be coming to visit. God told him what he planned to do.
But Ahijah could not see; for his eyes were set by reason of his age. And the LORD said unto Ahijah, Behold, the wife of Jeroboam cometh to ask a thing of thee for her son; for he is sick: thus and thus shalt thou say unto her: for it shall be, when she cometh in, that she shall feign herself to be another woman.1 Kings 14:4b-5
So when Jeroboam's wife arrived, Ahijah told her he had some bad news.
And it was so, when Ahijah heard the sound of her feet, as she came in at the door, that he said, Come in, thou wife of Jeroboam; why feignest thou thyself to be another? for I am sent to thee with heavy tidings. 1 Kings 14:6
He said that God made Jeroboam king, but that Jeroboam wasn't perfect like God's servant David was. (See here for some of the perfect acts of David.) In fact, Jeroboam had acted worse than anyone who had ever lived up to that time. (God loves to exaggerate!)
Go, tell Jeroboam, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Forasmuch as I exalted thee from among the people, and made thee prince over my people Israel, And rent the kingdom away from the house of David, and gave it thee: and yet thou hast not been as my servant David, who kept my commandments, and who followed me with all his heart, to do that only which was right in mine eyes; But hast done evil above all that were before thee: for thou hast gone and made thee other gods. 1 Kings 14:7-9
So to punish Jeroboam, God would kill all of Jeroboam's sons (or, as God put it, all those "that pisseth against the wall").
Therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam, and will cut off from Jeroboam him that pisseth against the wall ... 1 Kings 14:10a
And dispose of Jeroboam's family as though they were pieces of shit.
... and will take away the remnant of the house of Jeroboam, as a man taketh away dung, till it be all gone. 1 Kings 14:10b
Then he'll feed whatever is left of them to the dogs, if they lived in the city, or to the birds, if they were country folk.
Him that dieth of Jeroboam in the city shall the dogs eat; and him that dieth in the field shall the fowls of the air eat: for the LORD hath spoken it. 1 Kings 14:11
And finally, God will kill Jeroboam's sick son. As soon as the mother of the sick boy returns home, her son will die.
Arise thou therefore, get thee to thine own house: and when thy feet enter into the city, the child shall die. 1 Kings 14:12
After hearing the words of God from his prophet Ahijah, Jeroboam's wife returned home. And God killed the sick boy the moment his mother entered his room.
And Jeroboam's wife arose, and departed, and came to Tirzah: and when she came to the threshold of the door, the child died; 1 Kings 14:17
Could anyone love the God of the Bible after reading this story?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God's next killing: Jeroboam's family
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/15/2010 08:48:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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Ray said...
This is why the Bible is not as good as other myths. If this were a Greek myth, the mother would have gone a-wandering in a bid to allow her son to have a full life and then she would have fallen ill and been brought to the city by someone who didn't recognise her. On meeting her son, he would drop dead. In the Bible, God just smites everyone - dull dull dull.
Tue Feb 16, 01:12:00 AM 2010
twillight said...
G*d loves. Loves to kill.
Tue Feb 16, 01:28:00 AM 2010
Il Censore said...
Despite the fact I own a Bible, I never read this passage. Thanks for your work.
Tue Feb 16, 01:59:00 AM 2010
busterggi said...
This is why one is better off calling a doctor who is an atheist than a god who is psychotic.
Tue Feb 16, 05:33:00 AM 2010
joshua said...
I'm beginning to think that the simplest form of birth control isn't condom use, abortion or abstinence, but angering Yahweh.
Tue Feb 16, 05:39:00 AM 2010
teavee said...
What was Jeroboam thinking or hoping for by sending his wife in disguise? Wouldn't he have expected the prophet to see through it?
(1 Kings 14:9,17) Shouldn't this be in the contradictions "Are we punished for the sins of others?" as well as 14:16?
What is 1 Kings 14:13-14 all about?
So Jeroboam can't take a hint (1 Kings 13:33)? Why doesn't God just have a "sit down" talk with Jeroboam?
Tue Feb 16, 09:25:00 AM 2010
teavee said...
I find it little humorous that cracknels (1 Kings 14:3, only occurence) is also defined as fried pork fat. Did it have that meaning during KJV translation?
Tue Feb 16, 09:40:00 AM 2010
skanksta said...
God moves in mysterious ways. Who are we to understand why he sometimes seems to be cruel ? It must be love that motivates God, so we have to try and understand his meaning - even when it is challenging.
We also have to understand the very different culture/time of the book of Kings.
Tue Feb 16, 10:41:00 AM 2010
Clint Burky said...
Debating with a fundamentalist nut the other day, he was just accepting that its a fact people deserved to die due to their fathers/grandfathers sins, as a 'law' I guess.
This is a good example of sin by associationg. The mere fact that you are in association, in any way, shape or form with a sinner, makes you a sinner that is apparently also punishable by death.
Such a loving and caring fellow our Yahweh is!
Wed Feb 17, 05:18:00 AM 2010
busterggi said...
Shanksta - we do understand god & that times were different.
Any improvement in culture is due to humanity moving out from under the domination of religion & its god.
Wed Feb 17, 05:33:00 AM 2010
Abeille said...
Busterggi,
Any evil in this culture of death is because we're moving away from the one true religion and the one true God.
Abortions, for example, wouldn't be nearly as safe (and thus, encouraged by the pro-abortion "choice" group) as they are now, if not for misguided doctors.
If not for the bible, how else would you get morals?
Wed Feb 17, 07:56:00 PM 2010
busterggi said...
Abeille - morals were around in all cultures before the bible was written.
Considering how Yahweh acts I'd say he's a damn poor example of good morality.
Thu Feb 18, 05:26:00 AM 2010
skanksta said...
Abeille said...
Busterggi,
Any evil in this culture of death is because we're moving away from the one true religion and the one true God.
Abortions, for example, wouldn't be nearly as safe (and thus, encouraged by the pro-abortion "choice" group) as they are now, if not for misguided doctors.
To be fair Abeille, I don't think pro-choice advocates actually ENCOURAGE abortion.
They merely (and foolishly) insist that mankind has the right to practice as many abortions as God does.
As for your first point - of course you are correct !
I don't really understand what you mean by "this culture of death", but it's SO OBVIOUS that it IS only since we moved away from the one true faith that humanity suffers.
Luckily you and I are devout Catholics, so we're lucky that WE KNOW the one true faith and are saved.
Thu Feb 18, 02:39:00 PM 2010
Matthew Blanchette said...
What is wrong with you, skanksta? Get off your high-horse, man; what Mr. Yahweh does in the Bible is indefensible. Even I know this, and I'm a former Catholic!
Also, Ray? Had the Bible writers had any real creativity, they'd have thought to cook up such a myth about Abijah's mother; alas, alas...
Fri Feb 19, 06:42:00 PM 2010
skanksta said...
@Blanchette
I was lucky enough to grow up in a country where believers stay in the closet for fear of ridicule and my mother took me to Dawkins lectures at a young age.
I just miss Brucker and think the blog lacks something without some unfortunate believer wrestling with their conscience trying to justify this appalling barbarism.
Filling in as an apologist, till a real one turns up, but as you can see, I'm not very good at it. Only seem to manage the bigoted fundie type defence :(
Sat Feb 20, 01:34:00 PM 2010
Caz said...
@Ray - You crack me up.
Tue Apr 22, 09:43:00 AM 2014
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11 February 2010A Tale of Two Prophets
The story begins with an old, nameless prophet from Bethel who found another nameless prophet, the "man of God" from Judah, sitting under an oak tree.
Now there dwelt an old prophet in Bethel ... And he ... went after the man of God, and found him sitting under an oak. 1 Kings 13.11-14
The old prophet invited the man of God to come over to his house to eat, but the man of God said that he couldn't, since God told him not to eat or drink anything.
Then he said unto him, Come home with me, and eat bread. And he said, I may not return with thee, nor go in with thee: neither will I eat bread nor drink water with thee in this place: For it was said to me by the word of the LORD, Thou shalt eat no bread nor drink water there. 13.15-17
But the old prophet told the man of God that he was also a prophet and that an angel told him to go find the man of God, bring him back to his house, and give him some food and water.
He said unto him, I am a prophet also as thou art; and an angel spake unto me by the word of the LORD, saying, Bring him back with thee into thine house, that he may eat bread and drink water. 13.18a
Too bad for the man of God, but the old prophet was lying. (If you can't trust an old prophet, who can you trust?)
But he lied unto him. 13.18b
So the man of God went to eat at the lying, old prophet's house.
So he went back with him, and did eat bread in his house, and drank water. 13.19
Then God told the man of God (through the mouth of his lying prophet) that God was pissed at him for...I don't know what. Eating and drinking when God told him not to (even though a prophet of God told him that God said that he should)? Believing a lying prophet of God? What?
I don't know. But here's what the God's lying prophet said:
The word of the LORD came unto the prophet ... saying, Thus saith the LORD, Forasmuch as thou hast disobeyed the mouth of the LORD ... But camest back, and hast eaten bread and drunk water ... thy carcase shall not come unto the sepulchre of thy fathers. 13.20-22
After the meal, the man of God went on his way. And then a lion met him on the road and killed him.
And it came to pass, after he had eaten bread, and after he had drunk, that he saddled for him the ass ... And when he was gone, a lion met him by the way, and slew him. 13.23-24a
The lion hung around the dead man of God for quite a while. Lots of people came to see the carcass and the ass and the lion by the side of the road.
And his carcase was cast in the way, and the ass stood by it, the lion also stood by the carcase. And, behold, men passed by, and saw the carcase cast in the way, and the lion standing by the carcase. 13.24b-25
God's next killing: Jeroboam’s son: God kills another child
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/11/2010 01:04:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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Daniel said...
God's message here is for prophets only (or for anyone who should happen to become a prophet in the future): Take your orders *only* from me, or I'll fuck you up.
However, I am sure there are other examples where orders are given to prophets through other prophets, and expected to be followed, in which case the message would be: If I'm in a bad mood, I just might fuck you up.
Thu Feb 11, 02:31:00 PM 2010
skanksta said...
You must only trust TRUE prophets of THE LORD of course !
This is a message from God showing what will happen to us if we disobey him and listen to false prophets.
Thu Feb 11, 03:07:00 PM 2010
Steve Wells said...
But the lying prophet was a TRUE prophet or THE LORD, skanksta -- even though he lied to the "man of God". So that can't be the message.
Thu Feb 11, 03:17:00 PM 2010
joshua said...
I think the moral is: never believe anything anyone else tells you about God. And if you don't hear anything directly from him, carry on whatever you're doing.
The Good News for skeptics!
Thu Feb 11, 04:10:00 PM 2010
teavee said...
It seems to be a test of faith, but unfair with the unrevealed consequences that maybe had not been determined yet. But then consequences should not matter when it comes to faith. "Do as I say in a completely arbitrary matter going against what you, and many other people, would normally do". It's odd how the man instantly caves in without considering the possibility the old prophet is a false prophet. Given the arbitrariness of the command, it seems it should be so obvious to the man that it is a test, or at least it seems it should be obvious to him that he can play it safe by not going back and eating, even if he sensed the old prophet was a true prophet. Going back and eating was not demanded of him. All he has to say is "No, thank you." It's almost as if God had said "Don't go back to or eat or drink in this particular place no matter what, and by the way, you might be tested specifically on that point".
This seems to be setup as a very easy test to pass. He was tested first by the king and passed. He was tested again by the old prophet (before his claim to be a prophet) and passed. Maybe he thought that was good enough. Why could he not share a meal with a fellow true prophet if he was hungry? But it could have been a very tricky test. Was the test to see if he would, not correctly, but properly assume the old prophet to be a false prophet if it was not revealed to him otherwise? (Don't take any prophet's word, even if they might be true, look for the signs first.) Maybe the real test was the third test and the first two were dummy tests. Psychologists like to play this type of game when they study human behavior. They set up a phony test and tell you about it, misleading you to what the real test is. The Milgram experiment is a classic example.
Perhaps the message to believers is "Don't blow an easy, obvious test of faith, even if it comes around multiple times. The first tests might be misleading or prepping pre-tests for the final real test."
This reminds me of a time when I was at college of a case where a prof said (maybe being too generous) "These next two math problems that I will work out for you in detail will be on the final exam exactly as I will state the problems now." Some disinterested students did not bother to take notes, and did poorly. Of course they knew the consequences did not include death.
Thu Feb 11, 11:56:00 PM 2010
2legcaco said...
My cousin's was right! This blog has a very useful information. Just like KimClement. Please visit KimClement.com because there's a lot information about prophecy, prophet, and etc.
Archie
Fri Feb 12, 01:11:00 AM 2010
busterggi said...
The moral of the story is don't walk around at night where there are lions.
Oh, and don't trust Yahweh - that sucker is a real mindfucker.
Fri Feb 12, 07:11:00 AM 2010
Steve Wells said...
teavee: Perhaps the message to believers is "Don't blow an easy, obvious test of faith, even if it comes around multiple times. The first tests might be misleading or prepping pre-tests for the final real test."
Don't blow an easy, obvious test of faith or God will send a lion to rip you apart (even though the test was neither easy or obvious).
Fri Feb 12, 07:58:00 AM 2010
teavee said...
Steve Wells: "even though the test was neither easy or obvious"
I agree the test might not have been obvious. I admit I probably over-analyzed the story. It's crazy that God is so harsh with the man but the old prophet considers the man worthy of being mourned and plans to share his grave with him.
I am guessing the lion was given a similar commandment. "Go kill this guy but don't eat any of him or of anyone or of any asses that come nearby."
Fri Feb 12, 09:09:00 AM 2010
busterggi said...
Heck teavee, the lion was Aslan.
Sun Feb 14, 06:24:00 AM 2010
Matthew Blanchette said...
I remember reading this and thinking, "Who the hell would write this shit? Prophet of Bethel? Jeez, were there entire crowds of prophets walking around Israel, like in Life of Brian?"
Hey, makes you wonder...
Fri Feb 19, 06:30:00 PM 2010
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08 February 2010God killed 70,000 because David did a census that God (or Satan) told him to do
This is not an easy one to explain, but I'll give it a try.
It all starts with God telling David to do a census, you know like the one the U.S. Constitution requires us to do every ten years.
And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. 2 Samuel 24:1
Or was it Satan that asked David to do the census, as it says in 1 Chronicles 21.1?
Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
Oh well, maybe it was both. They often work together. In any case, David sent Joab out to take the census, and after 9 months and 20 days, Joab came back with the results: there were 800,000 sword-yielding men in Israel and 500,000 in Judah.
So when they had gone through all the land, they came to Jerusalem at the end of nine months and twenty days. And Joab gave up the sum of the number of the people unto the king: and there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men that drew the sword; and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men. 2 Samuel 24.9
Or was it was 1,100,000 and 470,000 men in Israel and Judah, as it says in 1 Chronicles 21:5?
Joab gave the sum of the number of the people unto David. And all they of Israel were a thousand thousand and an hundred thousand men that drew sword: and Judah was four hundred threescore and ten thousand men that drew sword.
Whichever it may have been, either is comparable to the number of active duty soldiers in the U.S. military today. Not bad for small tribal kingdom in 1000 BCE!
After the census, David decided that he had done something wrong, which is weird since he had only taken a census that God told him to take.
David's heart smote him after that he had numbered the people. And David said unto the LORD, I have sinned greatly in that I have done. 2 Samuel 24.10
And God was angry, too, at least that's what the prophet Gad told him. Gad said God offered him three choices:
1. Seven years of famine (or three years if you believe the story in 1 Chronicles 21),
2. Three months of losing battles,
3. Or Three days of pestilence.
When David was up in the morning, the word of the LORD came unto the prophet Gad ... saying ... Thus saith the LORD, I offer thee three things; choose thee one of them, that I may do it unto thee. ... Shall seven years of famine come unto thee in thy land? or wilt thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue thee? or that there be three days' pestilence in thy land? 2 Samuel 24.11-13
David couldn't decide, so God decided for him. God chose the three days of pestilence, thereby killing 70,000 men, which would mean at least a couple hundred thousand people (since only men count to God).
So the LORD sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the time appointed: and there died of the people from Dan even to Beersheba seventy thousand men. 2 Samuel 24.15
But God was still pissed off, even after he finished killing a couple hundred thousand people in the pestilence. So he sent an angel to destroy the city of Jerusalem. But before the angel destroyed the city, God "repented him of the evil" that he intended to do and told him to stop.
When the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. 2 Samuel 24.16
When David saw the angel that was still killing people, he said, "I've sinned, but what have these people done?" A good question, that God, of course, completely ignores.
David spake unto the LORD when he saw the angel that smote the people, and said, Lo, I have sinned, and I have done wickedly: but these sheep, what have they done? 2 Samuel 24.17
Finally, Gad tells David to buy some land, make an altar, and kill some animals to make God quit killing people. So David buys some land for 50 shekels of silver (or 600 shekels of gold if you believe the story in 1 Chronicles 21), sets up an altar, and kills some animals for God.
And God finally stopped killing people.
Gad came that day to David, and said unto him, Go up, rear an altar unto the LORD in the threshingfloor of Araunah the Jebusite ... So David bought the threshingfloor and the oxen for fifty shekels of silver. And David built there an altar unto the LORD, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings. So the LORD was intreated for the land, and the plague was stayed from Israel. 2 Samuel 24.18-25
God's next killing: Solomon carries out the deathbed wish of David by having Joab and Shimei murdered
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/08/2010 10:00:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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matt311 said...
When your own chosen king, who's probably as violent as you, thinks you're going too far with the bloodlust... you know you've overreached, as a God.
Also, Steve; what the hell happened to the Brick Testament? There hasn't been any updates on that site since last year, at the latest...
Tue Feb 09, 12:36:00 AM 2010
Steve Wells said...
I'm not sure what's up with the Brick Testament. I suggested that he start on the Book of Mormon, since that has so many fun stories in it. But I doubt that he will.
Maybe he's gone on to other things. I'm hoping that I'll do that too someday, if I live long enough!
Tue Feb 09, 07:42:00 AM 2010
skanksta said...
Steve, I never want you to do other things !
Real shame about TBT...
Tue Feb 09, 03:46:00 PM 2010
Abeille said...
God is just. Therefore, whatever he does is just?
Tue Feb 09, 05:45:00 PM 2010
matt311 said...
Steve, how are you going to illustrate God's killings once you get to stories that aren't covered by The Brick Testament?
Tue Feb 09, 07:15:00 PM 2010
Steve Wells said...
Well, I don't think that will be much of a problem, matt, since there are Brick Testament stories for almost all of them. I think that's part of the reason why new stories haven't been added lately -- most of the fun ones have already been done.
Tue Feb 09, 08:28:00 PM 2010
Matt S said...
I think the solution seems to go get some lego and make it yourself/selves.
Wed Feb 10, 09:15:00 PM 2010
Fernando said...
"This worked out well. Killing 200,000 Israelites but not harming David will teach him not to take a census when I tell him to take a census."
LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL !!!!!!!!!!!!
I can't stop laughing here hahahahhahah !!!!
Sun Feb 14, 05:16:00 PM 2010
kate potts said...
This board shows a misunderstanding of Scripture. It was NOT David's census that caused the 70,000 deaths. It was Israel's. You will note that all of those who died were from Israel, and not from Judah. Why? Because way back in Exodus 30:12, God told the Israelites that any time a census was taken, an offering had to be made to God. This is the 3rd census that Israel took after leaving Egypt, and not one offering has been made. Note the wording in Exodus, Each man shall give an offering for himself... that there be no plague among them. Note the punishment from the census David took. A plague. But it wasn't because David took a census. He was simply the instrument that God used. The plague came because God's people refused to do things God's way.
Tue Oct 15, 08:05:00 AM 2013
Steve Wells said...
Gosh, thanks for explaining that Kate!
God killed 70,000 men (and probably another couple hundred thousand women and children) because David had a census (as God "moved" him to do) without killing an animal for him first. God wanted his ration of blood, guts, and gore or he would kill hundreds of thousands of people in a plague.
And you worship this imaginary monster, Kate?
Tue Oct 15, 09:27:00 AM 2013
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08 February 2010David's Mighty Men and their Amazing Killings
There is a list of crazy single-handed killings in 2 Samuel 23 and 1 Chronicles 11 that the God obviously approved of since the Bible brags about them so much. I’m including them all here.
These be the names of the mighty men whom David had: 2 Samuel 23:8a
These also are the chief of the mighty men whom David had ... to make him king, according to the word of the LORD concerning Israel. And this is the number of the mighty men whom David had: 1 Chronicles 11:10-11a
Adino and/or Jashobeam
There is some confusion about this one. Who was the chief of David’s captains (Adino or Jashobeam) and how many did he kill with his spear at one time (300 or 800)? Was it two different captains in two different slaughters? I'll give them both credit and call it 1100.
The Tachmonite that sat in the seat, chief among the captains; the same was Adino the Eznite: he lift up his spear against eight hundred, whom he slew at one time. 2 Samuel 23:8
Jashobeam, an Hachmonite, the chief of the captains: he lifted up his spear against three hundred slain by him at one time. 1 Chronicles 11:11b
The son of Dodo
Next we have the son of Dodo who smote Philistines until his hand stuck to his sword, "and the LORD wrought a great victory that day." It doesn’t say how many he killed; I’ll guess 1000.
Eleazar the son of Dodo ... smote the Philistines until his hand was weary, and his hand clave unto the sword: and the LORD wrought a great victory that day. 2 Samuel 23:9-10
Eleazar the son of Dodo ... one of the three mighties ... slew the Philistines; and the LORD saved them by a great deliverance. 1 Chronicles 11:12-14
Shammah
Shammah isn't mentioned in the 1 Chronicles account, but according to 2 Samuel, God was involved since "the Lord wrought a great victory." I’ll give God and Shammah credit for another 1000 for this “great victory.”
Shammah the son of Agee ... slew the Philistines: and the LORD wrought a great victory. 2 Samuel 23:11-12
Abishai
Abishai killed 300 Philistines with his spear.
Abishai ... lifted up his spear against three hundred, and slew them. 2 Samuel 23:18
Abishai the brother of Joab, he was chief of the three: for lifting up his spear against three hundred, he slew them. 1 Chronicles 11:20
Jehoiada
This one is my favorite. Jehoiada killed two lion-like men and then a lion in a snowy pit. After that he killed a good-looking, 7.5 foot tall Egyptian with the Egyptian's spear.
Benaiah the son of Jehoiada ... slew two lionlike men of Moab: he went down also and slew a lion in the midst of a pit in time of snow. And he slew an Egyptian, a goodly man: and the Egyptian had a spear in his hand. 2 Samuel 23:20-21
Benaiah the son of Jehoiada ... slew two lionlike men of Moab: also he went down and slew a lion in a pit in a snowy day. And he slew an Egyptian, a man of great stature, five cubits high; and in the Egyptian's hand was a spear like a weaver's beam; and he went down to him with a staff, and plucked the spear out of the Egyptian's hand, and slew him with his own spear. 1 Chronicles 11:22-23
God's next killing: God killed 70,000 because David had a census that God (or Satan) told him to do
Posted by Steve Wells at 2/08/2010 09:34:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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twillight said...
At the second point here Priit's comment at http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2010/01/david-killed-amalekite-messenger-and.html
came to my mind.
The Biblegod/the Lord (= Marduk?)/He/whatever really seem to transform him(?)self into a sword...
Also for 1, 4 and 5 I agree they shouldn't be on that list. Those people were superheroes as Superman, Catwoman and Wolverine are nowdays. Equally real all of them :)
For 3 it seems the killing is somehow separated from the goddidit.
2 is debatable, but seems we have more like another superheroe-act, Mr. Almighty Failure ensures / clears the area, then the "choosen nation" comes to steal (because stealing is good).
Mon Feb 08, 01:40:00 PM 2010
matt311 said...
I have no idea what the above comment means, in the slightest.
Also, Steve, you've got an extra "The" before "The Tachmonite"; just wanted to point that out, before a religious apologist happens upon this site and tries to undercut your argument with a spelling error.
Tue Feb 09, 12:29:00 AM 2010
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