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Coming out of the gay( and atheist) closet
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offlineKefka6
Coming out of the gay( and atheist) closet
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Dec 28 13 9:17 AM
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How funimage
So I was raised a jw, my entire extended family are all jw's and I think I'm the only one who actually plans to leave. Anyway I'm currently 20 yrs old and just waiting for the right moment to Dissasociate myself because I don't think I can take going to the meetings for long.
Anyway me wanting to leave the jw's started when I was 14 that's when I realized that I was more into guys than girls. This was actually really difficult I was so depressed I thought I had the bad luck to be the only gay jw out there.sometimes I'd think about dating girls but I couldn't live with myself knowing I was lying to them. So then the only choice was to be single and lonely for the rest of my life, but that wasn't going to happen. So at 15 I had the idea that I was going to leave.
Unfortunately I got baptized at 17 a few months after my grandpa died because of grief and the small hope that I might see him again. It wasn't till a few months after that I realized what a stupid mistake I made. Now if I left my family would have to shun me and I don't think I could deal with that especially since they won't approve of anyone I may want to date.
This was also the time that I started looking at other religions but none of them really satisfied me, they all seemed like mythology instead of the truth. Then I started looking up atheism and things that had to do with science and evolution and it made more sense than religion so it was there that I became an atheist
And it's really hard to be an atheist and still go to the meetings there are times where I just want to stand up and scream that they're wrong, whether they're saying that violent video games cause school shootings or when the brother on the platform gets condescending when topics that contradict the watchtower come up. It just baffles me that with all of the information out there that contradicts their beliefs almost none of the jw's. That I know question what is being thought I just don't get it anymore
There are small mercies though mom who I currently live with works on Sunday and since we only have one car I can miss that meeting every week with a good excuse.
So this is my condensed story I think I'll reveal more about myself the more I post here.
status offlineVancity
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Dec 28 13 2:26 PM
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Hey Kefka6,
Firstly, it's great that you've figured this much out at such a young age, it takes courage to not simply accept what you are told by authority figures and learn on your own. Secondly, I couldn't imagine going to meetings while knowing that religion is bullshit, that would be so frustrating it would make me sick. Most people cannot figure out what you have because they don't bother to do they kind of research you have, which in this time of the information age is really a shame. I firmly believe all religion will be a relic of the past in the not so distant future because, unlike past generations, information is so readily available to anyone who wants it.
Good luck in the next chapter of your life.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Dec 28 13 6:43 PM
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Kefka-
So good seeing you continue posting.
I'm not for supporting the gay/lesbion society that wants my money... I am however for not having the hate of old. I'm also out spoken for how religion protects Pedophiles. And the WTBTS does that too.
We have gay friends that are old...yes, they are old. One was broken in by his uncle at the age of 6...that's a pedophile. The other was engaged to be married the traditional way and finally decided that wasn't for him.
The one thing we can appreciate and after 20 years, love each other, they would never harm a child. We would trust those men around our grandchildren more then we would the religious idiots that hide their deed while preaching hatred towards those that live differently.
It's been an adventure learning from those that spoke out [JW's] and will always appreciate what they did for helping others.
Being gay and atheist, you have so much opportunity for educating others...don't piss away your youth. Love, Lin and John
status offlineKBG
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Dec 29 13 7:11 AM
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Kefka6,
I always admire people who know themselves. Its easy to get trapped in what you are expected to be, and not be who you are. Good for you. I know your road will not be easy, true integrity never is. Cultivate support networks outside of JWs. No man is an island.
status offlinetnt386
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Dec 29 13 4:34 PM
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Thanks for posting your story Kefka6. I am 19 and can relate to figuring out that the JW's are all blinded by false teachings of cult leaders. I figured it all out for myself when I was about 14-15. Although I cannot relate to the other parts of your story, just know that all of us are here for you and are ready to listen to whatever you wanna say! :)
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Hello again Kefka ...... and thanks for adding a little more about yourself.
Walking out of the closet is a wondrous and very courageous thing to do ... even if you've not told your family and others yet. It's great you've worked out how you really feel now ... rather than go along with what everyone else thinks is right for you ....... good for you mate!!! Stand tall ... be proud!
As for the meeting thing ... you will know when the time is right to leave. In the meantime ... to quell the sickness that surely must rise to your throat during those 'lovely' (said very firmly with tongue in cheek) meetings ........ take notes of the anomalies. If nothing else ... the writing of notes will stop you from being sick. Or falling asleep. Or both!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlinedivertido
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As one who left an extended family of JW's I believe understand your situation. Trust in yourself, trust is what you hold to be true. "Damn the torpedo's, full speed ahead" when they and others launch them at you. You are young, full of energy and can do it.
I was tossed out with half a weeks paycheck in 1970 and a couple of good friends where I could live for awhile. Taught me alot and made me stronger. Hopefully you can leave under better circumstances.
The world is a big beautiful place, go explore it and have fun learning from the good and the bad.
Hope you can click on my picture and read it, it is one of life's truths.
status offlineCacky
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Jan 18 14 7:20 AM
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Hello and welcome to the board. It's nice to meet you. I wish you well. You are young and have your whole life ahead of you. You'll make it!
status offlineSailAway
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Welcome Kefka, Tnt and Divertido! I look forward to getting to know each one of you! It is Awesome to see new ones on the forum.
Coming out of the JW closet, whether gay or atheist or neither, is a tremendous accomplishment! Celebrate your life of freedom from mind control!
What is needed for dramatic change is an accumulation of acts, adding, adding to, adding more, continuing. We know that it does not take everyone on Earth to bring justice and peace, but only a small, determined group who will not give up during the first, second, or hundredth gale.
One of the most calming and powerful actions you can do to intervene in a stormy world is to stand up and show your soul. Soul on deck shines like gold in dark times. The light of the soul throws sparks, can send up flares, builds signal fires, causes proper matters to catch fire. To display the lantern of soul in shadowy times like these – to be fierce and to show mercy toward others; both are acts of immense bravery and greatest necessity.
Struggling souls catch light from other souls who are fully lit and willing to show it. If you would help to calm the tumult, this is one of the strongest things you can do.
Excerpts from, You Were Made for This, by Clarissa Pinkola Estes, Ph.D
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Jan 18 14 10:43 PM
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Hi there Divertido .......................... I left home for similar reasons and didn't have much to go with either. It's makes us more resilient when we have to plan more carefully doesn't it!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Jan 30 14 8:45 PM
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I was tossed out for smoking and not going to meetings and mmmmm other things.
Best thing that happened to me.
Good luck
status offlinepunkofnice
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Good on ya Kefka for being honest with all...including yourself.
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
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Attending the Unitarian Universalist Congregation
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offlinerawe
Attending the Unitarian Universalist Congregation
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Dec 12 13 9:51 PM
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Hi Everyone,
Several months back I began feeling a need to find some form of formal religious connection. The big problem with that of course is I am an atheist and for the most part Wendy (my wife) would identify as such too. My oldest daughter sometimes says she believes in God, but probably is more in the agnostic category. My second two would definitely call themselves unbelievers and my youngest is just 10.
My family has been wonderfully supportive of my somewhat odd connection to things related to faith. Nonetheless, I don't want to do something that would cause any to be uncomfortable. So... we've now gone a few times to VUU here in Chandler. The advantage of UU for folks like me is they embrace all forms of belief or non-belief. The majority identify as humanists, 13% as theists and in this particular group nearly 1/2 as atheists.
So far it has just been myself, Wendy and our youngest who have attended. We've gone to about 4 services so far. Last Sunday my youngest was not feeling well so I went alone. I was able to stay for a bit afterwards and chat with a member of the choir who had been a JW for 50 years! He was so funny. He said, "as a JW I was promised life in paradise, so I was good. At UU I was not promised anything, so now I'm good for nothing!" :)
Compared to the Kingdom Hall, a few things stand out. First is no Bibles and very little direct mention of God. Second is the amount of singing, both by the choir and the congregation. If feels like about 60% of the 1:15 service is dedicated to song. A collection plate was passed around. It was large gold coloured plate/bowl -- whoops, forgot about that! But no one seemed to mind that we just passed it on, without putting something in.
After about 15 minutes of service, they invited all the children up front. Then they gave them a 8-10 minute lesson while we listened in, much like a classroom setting with the children being asked questions and answering back. This was followed by the "bridge of love", wherein the congregation members from opposite aisles raise and hold holds that then allow the children to run down under. Apparently from there the children go to Sunday school, however we so far have kept our 10 year old with us. It felt a bit odd and uncomfortable to do this bit at first, but I think it is an interesting idea. I have often reflected on the fact that the Kingdom Hall experience is not very engaging even for adults, let alone children -- but they are expected to love it, and say so -- so wind up being forced into a sort of dishonesty from young age. Yet at other churches, programs are actually designed for children -- imagine that!
Both as you enter and leave the service, you walk past a number of volunteer tables that have been setup. Wendy stopped and picked up a couple items from the "giving tree", so now we'll need to buy two Christmas gifts for children who would otherwise not get such things.
Both Wendy and I have googled for information critical of the UU faith. Mostly what we've found and it makes sense, is the faith winds up being so widely embracing of people and ideas it winds up being quite vague. That the only unity seems to tied to a group of people that don't fit in elsewhere. Theological objections are what one would expect too -- the group are not Christians, even though they talk about Jesus. By rejecting the idea of original sin, the focus shifts to internal worth and goodness of individuals. While that may be preferred it could be little more than creating an idol of self. So far... this last objection, seems tempered by a message of building self-worth by helping others. That is okay by me.
In any regards, my plan is to take is slowly, hang out for at least one year doing nothing more the observing how things go. Keeping an eye open for anything that smells cultist or money-grubbing.
Cheers,
-Randy
Last Edited By: rawe Dec 12 13 10:24 PM. Edited 3 times.
status offlineLocutus
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Hi Randy,
i'm processing this...
Will report my opinions upon review. My first inclination is to view the UU as a tax haven/holding property business. Of course I'm just a cynical atheist.
status offlineCacky
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It sounds nice to me, a place for people to connect to each other, regardless of belief or non belief.
status offlinerawe
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Hi Locutus,
Your post promoted me to look up cynic on Wikipedia. I knew it was a school of Greek philosophy, that today has become associated with a sort of automatic distrust. And that is it, right? We know motives are not always so good or what people claim they are. Yet, having been burned by JWs we need to be careful not to become too cynical.
I will say, it is interesting to sit in a religious service and have the preacher give a sermon wherein I am say, yeah, I agree with that, or I see his point, even though I feel not exactly the same way. But so far, none of the this-is-just-crazy. Reverend (yes, that the term they use) Andy talked to Wendy and me briefly after the service. He was trained in a traditional Christian seminary and was either a Baptist or Pentecostal Preacher. However, he himself started to have doubts about God's existence and said reading Richard Dawkin's The God Delusion was a turning point for him. After that he found his way into the UU group.
Cheers,
-Randy
status offlineSailAway
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Hi Randy, I was glad to see your post. I checked out the UU church about a year after I left the JWs. I found the climate to be highly political, with members vying to get me to side with them on various topics regarding running the church, and this was at a welcoming picnic! It wasn't a good fit for me, but I hope you are finding that community of faith you have been searching for. They do seem to be very transparent about finances and how they support their paid clergy and other initiatives. One is required to pledge a contribution in order to become a voting member. The UU church in my town has an informative website with an on-line newsletter and calendar of activities.
status offlinerawe
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Hi SailAway,
I live in Arizona, where conservatives & Republicans tend to be in the majority. In contrast it appears the UU folks are more on the Liberal Progressive side politically. And politically I'm all over the map. I'm with Libertarians in terms of foreign policy and tend to think the USA should not involve themselves in conflicts in other countries. I'm with Democrats in terms of many social issues like gay marriage and abortion rights. Yet, I don't think government in general should spend more money than it takes in in revenue and that well-regulated free market capitalism is generally a good thing, even when some businesses over time are no longer viable and must scale down or come to an end. And of course I strongly believe in rights to free speech, having a free press, freedom of religion (inclusive of freedom from religion), the right to vote, etc -- i.e. the sorts of things one finds in the constitutions of Canada and the USA.
But... while I don't mind saying what my political views are, I generally shy away from intense arguments about them. Light banter, no problem, but convince me of this, ask me to defend that, I am not looking for that. Mostly, because I feel fairly uninformed and ignorant on these issues most of the time. What I think I know reasonable well (JW stuff, software engineering and some science) absorbs most of my mental energy. So... yes, I'm worried about. So far, not too much has come up in that regard. They did mention that after the service they were going to have a presentation on how to sign up for health insurance at healthcare.gov for those that were interested.
Cheers,
-Randy
status offlineSailAway
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Hi again Randy, I guess I wasn't clear enough that church politics was an issue for me. In JW Land the rank and file have no say or even knowledge about decision making within the congregation. Not so in the UU church it seems!
Last Edited By: SailAway Dec 14 13 7:17 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlinerawe
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Hi SailAway,
Oh, internal politics... hmm.. nothing so far, but of course I'm very new to it. I don't think I would be that interested in that bit either, so hopefully won't run into to much lobbying by members.
Cheers,
-Randy
status offlineSailAway
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Just a head's up from my experience, and wishing you the best!
status offlinesolitaire
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I LOVE your attitude Randy....you always 'boldly go' lol!! I found this interesting.....
That the only unity seems to tied to a group of people that don't fit in elsewhere
That is imo a very astute observation......seems to me that there will always be someone looking to 'fill' an empty slot.........not that that is of itself negative, but I would still wonder if the organisers of the 'one fits all' approach have truly altruistic intentions....so I would like to know who instigated this 'congregation' and what is their story??
Love to you and Wendy
Sam xxx
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
status offlineKBG
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Hi Randy,
I found UUs 3 about years after leaving JWs. For me, the key to difference with UUs is what you believe or don't believe about the supernatural is of secondary importance. How you treat other and the world around you is primary. I like that.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Randy, It's always good hearing from youBeating heart
I'll do my research too as to this group you speak of.
Ya' know my mantra: "There is no separation of Church and State." "Sooner or later when you lay with the Devil, you will fuck."
Enjoy the adventure and remember to just sometimes take a break from the studies and just have fun with those beautiful children that don't need a lot of stress from the adults.
Chat later, Lin
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Perhaps it's not religion you're seeking Randy .... but the association with people who have a similar outlook in life. Not sure if you get what my Aussie brain is trying to say ... but ...
You've come from a very authoritarian 'do as you're told or you'll die' type of religious lifestyle. A religious lifestyle where the family unit is held tightly together by even tighter constraints ... with people looking over your shoulder and under your armpits 24/7. Your latest church adventure ... is totally and utterly different to what you're used to. It seems to be charismatic ... friendly ... and non-judgmental. Given you're a rather astute kind of fella .... I dare say this is more like an experiment of experience ... rather than a search for a new religion to follow.
It's not my cup of tea at all ... not even remotely ... but you do like this 'where angels fear to tread ... there goes Randy' type of journey! Have fun ...
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlinewhytebyrd2
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Hey Randy, just saw this and thought I'd pipe in. I haven't gone to a Unitarian service but thought about it many times. I might still go one of these days.
I have met Unitarians and the things your described are pretty much what I got from talking to these folks.
I think I told you but if not, I decided in the end not to move down to Phoenix. Not getting to be there and spend some time with you and Wendy and your kids is certainly a part of that decision I will miss. I would have attended the Unitarian church with you!
I have a wonderful little 90+ year old aunt up in Prescott Valley who almost convinced me to check into the Unity church (and I may still.........). She is the only one of my dad's family who never bought into the JW's. From what I've read about Unity it is yet another 19th/20th century religion but it is much more aligned with my thoughts on things although belief in god has definitely taken a serious beating lately. Ha! Actually it would probably be my belief in MYSELF that has taken the beating because that is pretty much where I finally figured out that god resided. I'm going to have to kick my own ass a bit more if I want 'god' to get busy doing good things I guess LOL!
Next time I get down there I will call you and hopefully we can all get together.
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot
status offlinematitalica
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Jan 14 14 4:21 AM
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Hi Randy, I'm glad you posted this. I myself have had a bit of a desire to hang out/talk with people who have the same viewpoint as I do. I tried the westside UU church out here a few years ago. They hold a logic/reason morality of atheism class before the service and the one I attended I was in a room with a bunch of old men and arrogance stifled the air. Then the service; they had some visiting folk singers and from there the entire service was centered around bashing god and bashing Christianity.
So I get the feeling that like any other religion different congregations will have their own social clique and congregants will form a gathering of like minds and beliefs. This one just happens to possibly be made up of people who express hatred for others beliefs, and me being a deist, I don't think I will fit in.
But that was several years ago, maybe I didn't give it enough visits, and I think you just encouraged me to give it another go, never hurts to make more friends.
status offlineCacky
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I'll be going to a meeting held at the library for people to come in and talk about current events, Jan. 31. That sounds like something I'd like. It's not spiritual at all, of course, but sounds like it's up my alley. Will let you all know how that goes. A chance to meet new people and socialize a bit.
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Cacky wrote:
I'll be going to a meeting held at the library for people to come in and talk about current events, Jan. 31. That sounds like something I'd like. It's not spiritual at all, of course, but sounds like it's up my alley. Will let you all know how that goes. A chance to meet new people and socialize a bit.Let me know if they are able to keep politics out of it:)
status offlineCacky
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I expect we will discuss politics. Especially Chris Christy! lol
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TRUTH BE TOLD DEBUTS IN SAN FRANCISCO 9/5/2013
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Truth Be Told debuts in Brooklyn, NY 3/27/2013
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TRUTH BE TOLD IN GOTHAMIST.COM
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INTERVIEW WITH GREGORIO SMITH
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Producing an independent film is expensive. From the drawing-board to the big-screen there are a host of creative and administrative expenses incurred. These costs are considerable but ultimately necessary to ensure the creative and editorial freedom that is characteristic of independent films yet rare for movies produced by major studios.
TRUTH BE TOLD is the first feature-length documentary from Smithkraft Productions, LLC – an independent multimedia company. Resources are needed to defray various production costs including (but not limited to) marketing, rights clearances, legal fees and insurance.Truth Be Told will also be submitted to a number of national/international film festivals. Funds are required to cover festival fees, formatting content to specific exhibition formats and other co-op fees (i.e. theater/projection equipment rental, paid advertising, and general publicity and promotion).
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If you cannot contribute financially, we hope to enlist your help to promote awareness of the documentary. Join our TRUTH BE TOLD page on Facebook (http://facebook.com/hereliesthetruth). Forward our url (www.hereliesthetruth.com) to family, friends, coworkers, and colleagues who are current or former Jehovah’s Witnesses. You can also forward our donation link to those with the means to contribute financially. We thank you in advance for your support!
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The story of being raised a Jehovah’s Witness is an interesting paradox. As one former Witness puts it, “It’s crazy how different & yet the same many Jehovah’s Witnesses & ex JW’s lives are…’.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses religion has had an impact on tens of millions. And the conversation of being raised a Jehovah’s Witness is exponentially larger than time permits in our feature-length documentary.
Real truth requires a diversity of opinions. To that end, we invite any and all to share their story on the official Truth Be Told Facebook page. Select stories will be published here on the official Truth Be Told movie site.
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Coming out of the gay( and atheist) closet
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offlineKefka6
Coming out of the gay( and atheist) closet
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Dec 28 13 9:17 AM
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How funimage
So I was raised a jw, my entire extended family are all jw's and I think I'm the only one who actually plans to leave. Anyway I'm currently 20 yrs old and just waiting for the right moment to Dissasociate myself because I don't think I can take going to the meetings for long.
Anyway me wanting to leave the jw's started when I was 14 that's when I realized that I was more into guys than girls. This was actually really difficult I was so depressed I thought I had the bad luck to be the only gay jw out there.sometimes I'd think about dating girls but I couldn't live with myself knowing I was lying to them. So then the only choice was to be single and lonely for the rest of my life, but that wasn't going to happen. So at 15 I had the idea that I was going to leave.
Unfortunately I got baptized at 17 a few months after my grandpa died because of grief and the small hope that I might see him again. It wasn't till a few months after that I realized what a stupid mistake I made. Now if I left my family would have to shun me and I don't think I could deal with that especially since they won't approve of anyone I may want to date.
This was also the time that I started looking at other religions but none of them really satisfied me, they all seemed like mythology instead of the truth. Then I started looking up atheism and things that had to do with science and evolution and it made more sense than religion so it was there that I became an atheist
And it's really hard to be an atheist and still go to the meetings there are times where I just want to stand up and scream that they're wrong, whether they're saying that violent video games cause school shootings or when the brother on the platform gets condescending when topics that contradict the watchtower come up. It just baffles me that with all of the information out there that contradicts their beliefs almost none of the jw's. That I know question what is being thought I just don't get it anymore
There are small mercies though mom who I currently live with works on Sunday and since we only have one car I can miss that meeting every week with a good excuse.
So this is my condensed story I think I'll reveal more about myself the more I post here.
status offlineVancity
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Dec 28 13 2:26 PM
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Hey Kefka6,
Firstly, it's great that you've figured this much out at such a young age, it takes courage to not simply accept what you are told by authority figures and learn on your own. Secondly, I couldn't imagine going to meetings while knowing that religion is bullshit, that would be so frustrating it would make me sick. Most people cannot figure out what you have because they don't bother to do they kind of research you have, which in this time of the information age is really a shame. I firmly believe all religion will be a relic of the past in the not so distant future because, unlike past generations, information is so readily available to anyone who wants it.
Good luck in the next chapter of your life.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Dec 28 13 6:43 PM
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Kefka-
So good seeing you continue posting.
I'm not for supporting the gay/lesbion society that wants my money... I am however for not having the hate of old. I'm also out spoken for how religion protects Pedophiles. And the WTBTS does that too.
We have gay friends that are old...yes, they are old. One was broken in by his uncle at the age of 6...that's a pedophile. The other was engaged to be married the traditional way and finally decided that wasn't for him.
The one thing we can appreciate and after 20 years, love each other, they would never harm a child. We would trust those men around our grandchildren more then we would the religious idiots that hide their deed while preaching hatred towards those that live differently.
It's been an adventure learning from those that spoke out [JW's] and will always appreciate what they did for helping others.
Being gay and atheist, you have so much opportunity for educating others...don't piss away your youth. Love, Lin and John
status offlineKBG
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Dec 29 13 7:11 AM
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Kefka6,
I always admire people who know themselves. Its easy to get trapped in what you are expected to be, and not be who you are. Good for you. I know your road will not be easy, true integrity never is. Cultivate support networks outside of JWs. No man is an island.
status offlinetnt386
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Thanks for posting your story Kefka6. I am 19 and can relate to figuring out that the JW's are all blinded by false teachings of cult leaders. I figured it all out for myself when I was about 14-15. Although I cannot relate to the other parts of your story, just know that all of us are here for you and are ready to listen to whatever you wanna say! :)
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Hello again Kefka ...... and thanks for adding a little more about yourself.
Walking out of the closet is a wondrous and very courageous thing to do ... even if you've not told your family and others yet. It's great you've worked out how you really feel now ... rather than go along with what everyone else thinks is right for you ....... good for you mate!!! Stand tall ... be proud!
As for the meeting thing ... you will know when the time is right to leave. In the meantime ... to quell the sickness that surely must rise to your throat during those 'lovely' (said very firmly with tongue in cheek) meetings ........ take notes of the anomalies. If nothing else ... the writing of notes will stop you from being sick. Or falling asleep. Or both!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlinedivertido
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As one who left an extended family of JW's I believe understand your situation. Trust in yourself, trust is what you hold to be true. "Damn the torpedo's, full speed ahead" when they and others launch them at you. You are young, full of energy and can do it.
I was tossed out with half a weeks paycheck in 1970 and a couple of good friends where I could live for awhile. Taught me alot and made me stronger. Hopefully you can leave under better circumstances.
The world is a big beautiful place, go explore it and have fun learning from the good and the bad.
Hope you can click on my picture and read it, it is one of life's truths.
status offlineCacky
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Jan 18 14 7:20 AM
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Hello and welcome to the board. It's nice to meet you. I wish you well. You are young and have your whole life ahead of you. You'll make it!
status offlineSailAway
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Welcome Kefka, Tnt and Divertido! I look forward to getting to know each one of you! It is Awesome to see new ones on the forum.
Coming out of the JW closet, whether gay or atheist or neither, is a tremendous accomplishment! Celebrate your life of freedom from mind control!
What is needed for dramatic change is an accumulation of acts, adding, adding to, adding more, continuing. We know that it does not take everyone on Earth to bring justice and peace, but only a small, determined group who will not give up during the first, second, or hundredth gale.
One of the most calming and powerful actions you can do to intervene in a stormy world is to stand up and show your soul. Soul on deck shines like gold in dark times. The light of the soul throws sparks, can send up flares, builds signal fires, causes proper matters to catch fire. To display the lantern of soul in shadowy times like these – to be fierce and to show mercy toward others; both are acts of immense bravery and greatest necessity.
Struggling souls catch light from other souls who are fully lit and willing to show it. If you would help to calm the tumult, this is one of the strongest things you can do.
Excerpts from, You Were Made for This, by Clarissa Pinkola Estes, Ph.D
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Hi there Divertido .......................... I left home for similar reasons and didn't have much to go with either. It's makes us more resilient when we have to plan more carefully doesn't it!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlinedivertido
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Jan 30 14 8:45 PM
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I was tossed out for smoking and not going to meetings and mmmmm other things.
Best thing that happened to me.
Good luck
status offlinepunkofnice
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Good on ya Kefka for being honest with all...including yourself.
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
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Attending the Unitarian Universalist Congregation
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offlinerawe
Attending the Unitarian Universalist Congregation
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Dec 12 13 9:51 PM
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Hi Everyone,
Several months back I began feeling a need to find some form of formal religious connection. The big problem with that of course is I am an atheist and for the most part Wendy (my wife) would identify as such too. My oldest daughter sometimes says she believes in God, but probably is more in the agnostic category. My second two would definitely call themselves unbelievers and my youngest is just 10.
My family has been wonderfully supportive of my somewhat odd connection to things related to faith. Nonetheless, I don't want to do something that would cause any to be uncomfortable. So... we've now gone a few times to VUU here in Chandler. The advantage of UU for folks like me is they embrace all forms of belief or non-belief. The majority identify as humanists, 13% as theists and in this particular group nearly 1/2 as atheists.
So far it has just been myself, Wendy and our youngest who have attended. We've gone to about 4 services so far. Last Sunday my youngest was not feeling well so I went alone. I was able to stay for a bit afterwards and chat with a member of the choir who had been a JW for 50 years! He was so funny. He said, "as a JW I was promised life in paradise, so I was good. At UU I was not promised anything, so now I'm good for nothing!" :)
Compared to the Kingdom Hall, a few things stand out. First is no Bibles and very little direct mention of God. Second is the amount of singing, both by the choir and the congregation. If feels like about 60% of the 1:15 service is dedicated to song. A collection plate was passed around. It was large gold coloured plate/bowl -- whoops, forgot about that! But no one seemed to mind that we just passed it on, without putting something in.
After about 15 minutes of service, they invited all the children up front. Then they gave them a 8-10 minute lesson while we listened in, much like a classroom setting with the children being asked questions and answering back. This was followed by the "bridge of love", wherein the congregation members from opposite aisles raise and hold holds that then allow the children to run down under. Apparently from there the children go to Sunday school, however we so far have kept our 10 year old with us. It felt a bit odd and uncomfortable to do this bit at first, but I think it is an interesting idea. I have often reflected on the fact that the Kingdom Hall experience is not very engaging even for adults, let alone children -- but they are expected to love it, and say so -- so wind up being forced into a sort of dishonesty from young age. Yet at other churches, programs are actually designed for children -- imagine that!
Both as you enter and leave the service, you walk past a number of volunteer tables that have been setup. Wendy stopped and picked up a couple items from the "giving tree", so now we'll need to buy two Christmas gifts for children who would otherwise not get such things.
Both Wendy and I have googled for information critical of the UU faith. Mostly what we've found and it makes sense, is the faith winds up being so widely embracing of people and ideas it winds up being quite vague. That the only unity seems to tied to a group of people that don't fit in elsewhere. Theological objections are what one would expect too -- the group are not Christians, even though they talk about Jesus. By rejecting the idea of original sin, the focus shifts to internal worth and goodness of individuals. While that may be preferred it could be little more than creating an idol of self. So far... this last objection, seems tempered by a message of building self-worth by helping others. That is okay by me.
In any regards, my plan is to take is slowly, hang out for at least one year doing nothing more the observing how things go. Keeping an eye open for anything that smells cultist or money-grubbing.
Cheers,
-Randy
Last Edited By: rawe Dec 12 13 10:24 PM. Edited 3 times.
status offlineLocutus
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Hi Randy,
i'm processing this...
Will report my opinions upon review. My first inclination is to view the UU as a tax haven/holding property business. Of course I'm just a cynical atheist.
status offlineCacky
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It sounds nice to me, a place for people to connect to each other, regardless of belief or non belief.
status offlinerawe
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Hi Locutus,
Your post promoted me to look up cynic on Wikipedia. I knew it was a school of Greek philosophy, that today has become associated with a sort of automatic distrust. And that is it, right? We know motives are not always so good or what people claim they are. Yet, having been burned by JWs we need to be careful not to become too cynical.
I will say, it is interesting to sit in a religious service and have the preacher give a sermon wherein I am say, yeah, I agree with that, or I see his point, even though I feel not exactly the same way. But so far, none of the this-is-just-crazy. Reverend (yes, that the term they use) Andy talked to Wendy and me briefly after the service. He was trained in a traditional Christian seminary and was either a Baptist or Pentecostal Preacher. However, he himself started to have doubts about God's existence and said reading Richard Dawkin's The God Delusion was a turning point for him. After that he found his way into the UU group.
Cheers,
-Randy
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Hi Randy, I was glad to see your post. I checked out the UU church about a year after I left the JWs. I found the climate to be highly political, with members vying to get me to side with them on various topics regarding running the church, and this was at a welcoming picnic! It wasn't a good fit for me, but I hope you are finding that community of faith you have been searching for. They do seem to be very transparent about finances and how they support their paid clergy and other initiatives. One is required to pledge a contribution in order to become a voting member. The UU church in my town has an informative website with an on-line newsletter and calendar of activities.
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Hi SailAway,
I live in Arizona, where conservatives & Republicans tend to be in the majority. In contrast it appears the UU folks are more on the Liberal Progressive side politically. And politically I'm all over the map. I'm with Libertarians in terms of foreign policy and tend to think the USA should not involve themselves in conflicts in other countries. I'm with Democrats in terms of many social issues like gay marriage and abortion rights. Yet, I don't think government in general should spend more money than it takes in in revenue and that well-regulated free market capitalism is generally a good thing, even when some businesses over time are no longer viable and must scale down or come to an end. And of course I strongly believe in rights to free speech, having a free press, freedom of religion (inclusive of freedom from religion), the right to vote, etc -- i.e. the sorts of things one finds in the constitutions of Canada and the USA.
But... while I don't mind saying what my political views are, I generally shy away from intense arguments about them. Light banter, no problem, but convince me of this, ask me to defend that, I am not looking for that. Mostly, because I feel fairly uninformed and ignorant on these issues most of the time. What I think I know reasonable well (JW stuff, software engineering and some science) absorbs most of my mental energy. So... yes, I'm worried about. So far, not too much has come up in that regard. They did mention that after the service they were going to have a presentation on how to sign up for health insurance at healthcare.gov for those that were interested.
Cheers,
-Randy
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Hi again Randy, I guess I wasn't clear enough that church politics was an issue for me. In JW Land the rank and file have no say or even knowledge about decision making within the congregation. Not so in the UU church it seems!
Last Edited By: SailAway Dec 14 13 7:17 AM. Edited 1 times.
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Hi SailAway,
Oh, internal politics... hmm.. nothing so far, but of course I'm very new to it. I don't think I would be that interested in that bit either, so hopefully won't run into to much lobbying by members.
Cheers,
-Randy
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Just a head's up from my experience, and wishing you the best!
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I LOVE your attitude Randy....you always 'boldly go' lol!! I found this interesting.....
That the only unity seems to tied to a group of people that don't fit in elsewhere
That is imo a very astute observation......seems to me that there will always be someone looking to 'fill' an empty slot.........not that that is of itself negative, but I would still wonder if the organisers of the 'one fits all' approach have truly altruistic intentions....so I would like to know who instigated this 'congregation' and what is their story??
Love to you and Wendy
Sam xxx
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
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Hi Randy,
I found UUs 3 about years after leaving JWs. For me, the key to difference with UUs is what you believe or don't believe about the supernatural is of secondary importance. How you treat other and the world around you is primary. I like that.
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Randy, It's always good hearing from youBeating heart
I'll do my research too as to this group you speak of.
Ya' know my mantra: "There is no separation of Church and State." "Sooner or later when you lay with the Devil, you will fuck."
Enjoy the adventure and remember to just sometimes take a break from the studies and just have fun with those beautiful children that don't need a lot of stress from the adults.
Chat later, Lin
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Perhaps it's not religion you're seeking Randy .... but the association with people who have a similar outlook in life. Not sure if you get what my Aussie brain is trying to say ... but ...
You've come from a very authoritarian 'do as you're told or you'll die' type of religious lifestyle. A religious lifestyle where the family unit is held tightly together by even tighter constraints ... with people looking over your shoulder and under your armpits 24/7. Your latest church adventure ... is totally and utterly different to what you're used to. It seems to be charismatic ... friendly ... and non-judgmental. Given you're a rather astute kind of fella .... I dare say this is more like an experiment of experience ... rather than a search for a new religion to follow.
It's not my cup of tea at all ... not even remotely ... but you do like this 'where angels fear to tread ... there goes Randy' type of journey! Have fun ...
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Hey Randy, just saw this and thought I'd pipe in. I haven't gone to a Unitarian service but thought about it many times. I might still go one of these days.
I have met Unitarians and the things your described are pretty much what I got from talking to these folks.
I think I told you but if not, I decided in the end not to move down to Phoenix. Not getting to be there and spend some time with you and Wendy and your kids is certainly a part of that decision I will miss. I would have attended the Unitarian church with you!
I have a wonderful little 90+ year old aunt up in Prescott Valley who almost convinced me to check into the Unity church (and I may still.........). She is the only one of my dad's family who never bought into the JW's. From what I've read about Unity it is yet another 19th/20th century religion but it is much more aligned with my thoughts on things although belief in god has definitely taken a serious beating lately. Ha! Actually it would probably be my belief in MYSELF that has taken the beating because that is pretty much where I finally figured out that god resided. I'm going to have to kick my own ass a bit more if I want 'god' to get busy doing good things I guess LOL!
Next time I get down there I will call you and hopefully we can all get together.
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
t.s.eliot
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Hi Randy, I'm glad you posted this. I myself have had a bit of a desire to hang out/talk with people who have the same viewpoint as I do. I tried the westside UU church out here a few years ago. They hold a logic/reason morality of atheism class before the service and the one I attended I was in a room with a bunch of old men and arrogance stifled the air. Then the service; they had some visiting folk singers and from there the entire service was centered around bashing god and bashing Christianity.
So I get the feeling that like any other religion different congregations will have their own social clique and congregants will form a gathering of like minds and beliefs. This one just happens to possibly be made up of people who express hatred for others beliefs, and me being a deist, I don't think I will fit in.
But that was several years ago, maybe I didn't give it enough visits, and I think you just encouraged me to give it another go, never hurts to make more friends.
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I'll be going to a meeting held at the library for people to come in and talk about current events, Jan. 31. That sounds like something I'd like. It's not spiritual at all, of course, but sounds like it's up my alley. Will let you all know how that goes. A chance to meet new people and socialize a bit.
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Cacky wrote:
I'll be going to a meeting held at the library for people to come in and talk about current events, Jan. 31. That sounds like something I'd like. It's not spiritual at all, of course, but sounds like it's up my alley. Will let you all know how that goes. A chance to meet new people and socialize a bit.Let me know if they are able to keep politics out of it:)
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I expect we will discuss politics. Especially Chris Christy! lol
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Truth Be Told
Theatrical, 2013, 86min., Documentary, Faith
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ABOUT FILM
LAUREL-largeTRUTH BE TOLD – a new feature-length documentary – lifts the veil on the seemingly benign Jehovah’s Witnesses religion to expose a profit-driven, isolationist culture characterized by fear, totalitarian corporate leadership, intellectual & spiritual intimidation, suspension of critical thinking, failed prophecies, doctrinal inconsistency and improper handling of physical and sexual abuse allegations within the church.
See former Jehovah’s Witnesses candidly discuss growing up inside the religion. They reveal experiences including the effects of proselytizing door-to-door, shunning non- observant family and friends, suffering the discouragement of pursuing dreams like gaining a higher education, missing other societal holidays and customs. And more…
Ultimately the film reveals why Jehovah’s Witnesses have the lowest retention rate of any religion with only 37% of those raised as Jehovah’s Witnesses continuing their affiliation with the religion.
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ABOUT THE FILMMAKER
Gsmith2bwGregorio Smith is an independent filmmaker and writer. His work has been featured in Staten Island Film Festival, Anthology Film Archive, Dallas Video and Film Festival, Denver Underground Film Festival, Bowery Poetry Club and other forums. His work has also appeared in the New York Times.
He is a graduate of Baruch College and a member of the International Documentary Association.
Gregorio Smith was born and raised a Jehovah’s Witness. In a recent interview he describes TRUTH BE TOLD as ‘immersive, informational, expository and controversial…an honest glimpse into the culture of growing up in the Jehovah’s Witness religion.”
TRUTH BE TOLD is the director’s sixth film and first feature.
SMITHKRAFT PRODUCTIONS, LLC, an independent multimedia production company, was founded in 2009 and is headquartered in Brooklyn, New York. The company creates independent films, commercial digital media, and original web-based content.
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Director GREGORIO SMITH speaks to audience. Photo by Kyria Lydia Abrahams.
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Director GREGORIO SMITH at Cobble Hill Cinemas. Photo by Kyria Lydia Abrahams.
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From Brooklyn, NY screening of TRUTH BE TOLD. Photo by Kyria Lydia Abrahams.
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TRUTH BE TOLD Q&A. Photo by Kyria Lydia Abrahams.
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Oriental Theater owner SCOTT LABARBERA and GREGORIO SMITH.
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Director GREGORIO SMITH with CANDACE CONTI at private NYC screening of TRUTH BE TOLD.
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DIANNE LIPSON, MARY ANN SIWEK in TRUTH BE TOLD. Photo by Trevaughn Williams.
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DIANNE LIPSON, MARY ANN SIWEK and Director GREGORIO SMITH. Photo by Trevaughn Williams.
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TRUTH BE TOLD DEBUTS IN SAN FRANCISCO 9/5/2013
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Producing an independent film is expensive. From the drawing-board to the big-screen there are a host of creative and administrative expenses incurred. These costs are considerable but ultimately necessary to ensure the creative and editorial freedom that is characteristic of independent films yet rare for movies produced by major studios.
TRUTH BE TOLD is the first feature-length documentary from Smithkraft Productions, LLC – an independent multimedia company. Resources are needed to defray various production costs including (but not limited to) marketing, rights clearances, legal fees and insurance.Truth Be Told will also be submitted to a number of national/international film festivals. Funds are required to cover festival fees, formatting content to specific exhibition formats and other co-op fees (i.e. theater/projection equipment rental, paid advertising, and general publicity and promotion).
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If you cannot contribute financially, we hope to enlist your help to promote awareness of the documentary. Join our TRUTH BE TOLD page on Facebook (http://facebook.com/hereliesthetruth). Forward our url (www.hereliesthetruth.com) to family, friends, coworkers, and colleagues who are current or former Jehovah’s Witnesses. You can also forward our donation link to those with the means to contribute financially. We thank you in advance for your support!
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The story of being raised a Jehovah’s Witness is an interesting paradox. As one former Witness puts it, “It’s crazy how different & yet the same many Jehovah’s Witnesses & ex JW’s lives are…’.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses religion has had an impact on tens of millions. And the conversation of being raised a Jehovah’s Witness is exponentially larger than time permits in our feature-length documentary.
Real truth requires a diversity of opinions. To that end, we invite any and all to share their story on the official Truth Be Told Facebook page. Select stories will be published here on the official Truth Be Told movie site.
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