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23 November 2013
Go Ahead, Ask Me Anything
Today over on Reddit, starting at 11am pacific, I will be answering questions posed by Reddit users about The Brick Bible, my new Assassination! book, or whatever folks feel like querying me about! (Username: brendanpowellsmith) Come on over and get to know your favorite author / illustrator a little better.
Don't know what to ask? Here are some suggestions to get you started:
• "Why are you so awesome??"
• "How does it feel to be the best in the world at what you do?"
•"How do you manage to stay so humble?"
• "I want to give you lots and lots of money, where should I send it?"
• "Is there a Mrs. Brendan Powell Smith?"
22 November 2013
That Fateful Day in Dallas
On the 50th anniversary of the John F. Kennedy assassination, take a moment to remember the events of that fateful day in Dallas with this series of images excerpted from the new book Assassination! The Brick Chronicle of Attempts on the Lives of Twelve US Presidents.
Find out more about the fascinating events leading up to that day, and learn about how Kennedy survived a previous attempt on his life in 1960 by a 73-year-old man in my new book Assassination!
4 November 2013
Assassination! an "Amazing accomplishment"
Renowned LEGO blog The Brothers Brick has written up a review of my latest book Assassination! The Brick Chronicle of Attempts on the Lives of Twelve US Presidents.
Also! You are cordially invited to the book release party for Assassination! this Friday, November 8, at 5:30pm at Showplace Caffe at 715 Brannan St in San Francisco. If you happen to be in the area, do stop by to share a celebratory drink, and get your copy of Assassination! autographed in person. I'll also have plenty of copies of the brand new The Brick Bible: The Complete Set hardcover box set on hand. Fun times for all.
If you can't make it to the party, don't fret too much. You can crack open a can of your favorite beverage anywhere and still get an autographed copy of Assassination! the old fashioned way: by ordering it via the internet from www.AssassinationBook.com.
15 October 2013
New! The Brick Bible: The Complete Set
Announcement! Hardcover versions of The Brick Bible: The Old Testament and The Brick Bible: The New Testament have been collected in one beautiful box set which includes a bonus 2-sided poster! My publisher has really outdone themselves with this one, especially with it coming in at a retail price of only $29.95!
If you'd like to order a set with both books autographed by the author, head on over to The Brick Bible shop. Or check your local booksellers, Costco, Barnes & Noble, and Amazon.com!
8 August 2013
Official announcement: Assassination!
LEGO fans, behold!
Assassination! The Brick Chronicle of Attempts on the Lives of Twelve US Presidents will be released on November 1. Pre-orders are now being taken by Barnes & Noble and Amazon.com. Here's more info:
PRESIDENTIAL HISTORY LIKE YOU'VE NEVER SEEN IT BEFORE!
Creator of the bestselling The Brick Bible book series, author Brendan Powell Smith turns his acclaimed storytelling and illustrative talents to bring to life some of the most shocking, pivotal, and bizarre moments in the history of the United States.
From John Wilkes Booth's diabolical plot to kill the President, Vice-President, and Secretary of State in a single night to John Hinckley's deranged bid to impress actress Jodie Foster by shooting Ronald Reagan, Smith brings an eye for meticulous detail and a sense of both gravitas and whimsy toward his subject matter, retelling the fascinating and often tragic stories behind attempts on the lives of a dozen US presidents.
Relive the events leading up to John F. Kennedy's fatal ride through Dealey Plaza in Dallas including an earlier attempt on the president's life when a 73-year-old man strapped dynamite to his own body and followed Kennedy to church. Rediscover the stories of how Gerald Ford survived two assassination attempts by women just seventeen days apart. And how a failed businessman hijacked a plane and planned to crash it into the White House to take vengeance on Richard Nixon for the Watergate scandal.
With over four hundred highly detailed illustrations (including recreations of many famous photographs and historical scenes), Smith has created a book that will captivate even those who wouldn't normally think to pick up a history book. It's a new Brick Chronicle of our collective past.
It's history made fun!
6 August 2013
Two new books coming this fall!
I am pleased to announce that the next book in The Brick Bible for Kids series is set for release on September 1! The classic story of David and Goliath has been entirely re-illustrated for this fun and adorable children's picture book featuring big, bold images and retold in language simplified for young readers and true to the Bible's account. Pre-orders are available now through Barnes & Noble and Amazon.com.
It is also very exciting to officially reveal the title of my all-new and first ever non-Bible-based illustrated book:
More details to come soon! If you're lucky enough to be attending the Bricks By the Bay LEGO convention in the San Francisco Bay Area this weekend, I'll be giving a sneak preview of Assassination! with chapter readings, highlights, and a Q&A session at 5pm on Friday, Room 206. If you're not a convention attendee, you can still come and see a whole lot of amazing LEGO builds on the Public Exposition Day on Sunday. I'll be at a booth signing books, so stop by and say hi!
A splendid time is guaranteed for all!
2 April 2013
Die Bibel auf die Ihr gewartet habt!
Celebrate! The Brick Bible: The Old Testament has been transaletd into German by publisher Bastei Lübbe, and is available now! Head over to Amazon.de to order your copy today. Here's a sample page to get you excited:
Ihre Katzen werden es lieben!
28 October 2012
New picture book for kids released today!
Look what just arrived! The newest installment in The Brick Bible for Kids series is now shipping from Barnes & Noble and Amazon! And you can get an autographed copy directly from the artist at The Brick Bible shop!
The Christmas Story: The Brick Bible for Kids is a beautifully presented illustration of the story of the birth of Jesus Christ. It's all here: the visit of the angel Gabriel to Mary, the journey to Bethlehem, the birth in a manger, the visit of the shepherds and gifts of the magi, the madness of King Herod, the flight to Egypt and safe return to Nazareth. It's the perfect way to introduce young readers this cherished Bible story, and get the whole family in the Christmas spirit.
For longtimes fans, please note, this new Christmas book is 100% newly illustrated to take full advantage of the big 9-inch by 9-inch picture book format, and is wholly different than previous illustrations of the Christmas story found in previous books or on the Brick Testament website!
10 October 2012
Slideshow from new book on Huffington Post
Today The Huffington Post is featuring a slideshow of images from the new book, The Brick Bible: The New Testament. It is accompanied by a short introduction written by guest columnist and author/illustrator of the new book, Brendan Powell Smith.
If you're a Brick Bible fan, be sure to "like" the article and share it with others to help get the word out about the new book!
9 October 2012
Interview with TIME Magazine
TIME Magazine has just published an interview with me about the newly-released book The Brick Bible: The New Testament on their website. In it I discuss my motivation for illustrating the entire Bible in LEGO bricks, my dissatisfaction with other illustrated Bibles, how my approach is different, the creative challenges I've faced, and the various reactions my work has received.
Site content copyright 2001-2013 by Brendan Powell Smith. all rights reserved
This site is in no way sponsored, authorized or endorsed by the LEGO company.
Dwindling In Unbelief
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30 November 2006New Brick Testament Stories
If you haven't seen the Brick Testament before, you should.
It's just the Bible, plain and simple, illustrated with Legos. One of the latest additions is also one of my favorites. Here's a link.
God Commands Amalekite Genocide
And be sure to see the follow-up story. Saul Rejected for Incomplete Genocide
These Bible stories are a great opportunity for Pope Benedict and the Vatican, who encourage all "faiths to say 'no' to violence in the name of God."
Why not begin by removing 1 Samuel 15 from the Bible? Since that chapter claims that God ordered the genocide of the Amalekites, it couldn't have been inspired by God, right? Get it the hell out of the Bible, I say.
Just say no to violence in the name of God (and thereby reject the violence in the Bible, Quran, and Book of Mormon).
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/30/2006 03:09:00 PM 3 comments Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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28 November 2006Jesus will search your kidneys
I [Jesus] am he which searcheth the reins [kidneys] and hearts. Revelation 2:23
Yes, it's true. Jesus is going to search through your kidneys. And if he doesn't like what he finds there, he's going to send you to hell.
You see, according to the Bible, your conscience is in your kidneys (called "reins" in the King James Version). So by inspecting them, Jesus can tell if you've been naughty or nice.
Here are some other verses that give a God's eye view of kidneys.
Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins. Psalm 7:9
I will bless the LORD, who hath given me counsel: my reins also instruct me in the night seasons. Pslam 16:7
Examine me, O LORD, and prove me; try my reins and my heart. Psalm 26:2
Thus my heart was grieved, and I was pricked in my reins. Psalm 73:21
Yea, my reins shall rejoice, when thy lips speak right things. Proverbs 23:16
But, O LORD of hosts, that judgest righteously, that triest the reins and the heart. Jeremiah 11:20
I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. Jeremiah 17:10
But, O LORD of hosts, that triest the righteous, and seest the reins and the heart. Jeremiah 20:12
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/28/2006 09:46:00 AM 13 comments Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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27 November 2006The seven spirits of God (including the Holy Spirit?)
I beheld ... a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God. Revelation 5:6
The book of Revelation is obsessed with the number seven. God's magic number is used 52 times in 30 verses, with 19 things grouped into sevens.
But the most interesting grouping is the number of God's spirits. Who knew that he had seven of them?
Here's the whole crazy list, with links to the verses so you can read them in context (like that would help or something). 1 churches of asia 1:4, 1:11, 1:20(2)
2 spirits before God's throne 1:4
3 golden candlesticks 1:12, 1:13, 1:20(2), 2:1
4 stars in the Jesus' right hand 1:16, 1:20, 2:1, 3:1
5 angels 8:2, 8:6, 15:1, 15:6, 15:7, 15:8, 16:1, 17:1, 21:9
6 spirits of God 3:1, 4:5, 5:6
7 lamps 4:5
8 seals 5:1
9 horns 5:6
10 eyes 5:6
11 trumpets 8:2, 8:6
12 thunders 10:3, 10:4(2)
13 thousand people killed in an earthquake 11:13
14 heads 12:3, 13:1, 17:3, 17:7, 17:9
15 crowns 12:3
16 plagues 15:1, 15:6, 15:8, 21:9
17 golden vials filled with the wrath of God 15:7, 16:1, 17:1, 21:9
18 mountains 17:9
19 kings 17:10
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/27/2006 09:22:00 AM 2 comments Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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26 November 2006Carlton Pearson: No Hell below us
Carlton Pearson is an Evangelical preacher from Tulsa, Oklahoma. He had a large church and a huge following until a few years ago when he publicly renounced his belief in Hell.
The story of his changing views on Hell is the topic of an excellent episode of This American Life. Here's what Bishop Pearson had to say about Hell.
The God we've been preaching is a monster. He's worse than Saddam; he's worse than Osama ben Laden; he's worse than Hitler. Because Hitler just burned 6 million Jews, but God is going to burn at least 6 billion people. And burn them forever. He has this customized torture chamber called Hell were he's going to torment and torture people, not for a few minutes, hours, days, or weeks, but forever.
Here are two of the verses that he uses to justify his belief (or lack of belief) in Hell. (I've added them to Does Hell exist? at the SAB.)
We trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 1 Timothy 4:10
He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/26/2006 04:01:00 PM 0 comments Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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25 November 2006Where the worms never die
Where are immortal worms mentioned in the Bible?
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. Isaiah 66:24
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:43-44
And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:45-46
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:47-48
It's not clear (to me at least) what Jesus and Isaiah meant by these verses. Do worms live forever in hell? Is human hell worm heaven? Do nonbelievers suffer and die so that worms may live forever?
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/25/2006 04:24:00 PM 2 comments Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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22 November 2006Do moderate Muslims believe in hell?
Christians are divided on hell. Some believe in it, some don't. And those that do aren't sure what it's like or who goes there. That's not surprising since the Bible has no clear, consistent teaching about hell (or anything else).
But the Quran has no such problem. If you believe in the Quran, you believe in hell. You know what it's like and who is going there.
I counted 98 passages in the Quran that mention hell. Here's a summary.
Who is going to hell?
Those who deny the existence of hell
This is hell which the guilty deny. They go circling round between it and fierce, boiling water. 55:43-44
All non-muslims
They who disbelieve and deny Our revelations, such are rightful owners of hell. 5:10
But those who disbelieve and deny Our revelations, they are owners of hell-fire. 5:86
Those who disbelieve will be gathered unto hell. 8:36
Lo! hell verily is all around the disbelievers. 9:49
We have appointed hell a dungeon for the disbelievers. 17:8
Lo! We have prepared hell as a welcome for the disbelievers. 18:102
That is their reward: hell, because they disbelieved, and made a jest of Our revelations and Our messengers. 18:106
Hell verily will encompass the disbelievers 29:54
But as for those who disbelieve, for them is fire of hell; it taketh not complete effect upon them so that they can die, nor is its torment lightened for them. 35:36
This is hell which ye were promised (if ye followed him). Burn therein this day for that ye disbelieved. 36:63-64
Those who disbelieve are driven unto hell in troops. 39:71
Those who disbelieve and deny Our revelations, they are owners of hell-fire. 57:19
Anyone who kills a Muslim
Whoso slayeth a believer of set purpose, his reward is hell for ever. 4:93
Muslims that refuse to serve and fight for Allah
When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless manoeuvring for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end. 8:15-16
Those who scorn My service, they will enter hell, disgraced. 40:60
Muslims that oppose or disobey Allah, Muhammad, or the Quran
Whoso opposeth the messenger after the guidance (of Allah) hath been manifested unto him, and followeth other than the believer's way, We appoint for him that unto which he himself hath turned, and expose him unto hell - a hapless journey's end! 4:115
Know they not that whoso opposeth Allah and His messenger, his verily is fire of hell, to abide therein? 9:63
Whoso disobeyeth Allah and His messenger, lo! his is fire of hell, wherein such dwell for ever. 72:23
What's it like in hell?
On the day when it will (all) be heated in the fire of hell, and their foreheads and their flanks and their backs will be branded therewith. 9:35
Hell is before him, and he is made to drink a festering water, Which he sippeth but can hardly swallow, and death cometh unto him from every side while yet he cannot die, and before him is a harsh doom. 14:16-17
Hell, where they will burn, an evil resting-place. Here is a boiling and an ice-cold draught, so let them taste it. 38:56-57
Lo! the guilty are immortal in hell's torment. It is not relaxed for them, and they despair therein. 43:74-75
Take him and drag him to the midst of hell, Then pour upon his head the torment of boiling water. 44:47-48
On the day when they are dragged into the Fire upon their faces (it is said unto them): Feel the touch of hell. 54:48
Then the welcome will be boiling water And roasting at hell-fire. 56:92-94
But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there are some moderate Muslims (like Cat Stevens?) that don't believe in hell. If so, I'd love to hear about it.
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/22/2006 02:58:00 PM 6 comments Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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20 November 2006Muslim feminists to interpret the Quran
Muslim feminists from around the world vowed to create the first women’s council to interpret the holy Quran and overcome two stereotypes about their religion: Muslims are terrorists and Islam oppresses women.
...
"Two misconceptions about Islam are that it is associated with terrorism and that Islam is an oppressor of women. These are two myths that we seek to demolish."
Well, I wish them luck. The Quran is pretty consistent when it comes to terrorism and women's rights.
How will the Muslim Feminist Council interpret these verses, for example?
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. 4:34
We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. 3:151
I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger. 8:12
Behold them, staring wide (in terror), the eyes of those who disbelieve! 21:97
I suspect the council will treat these verses like liberal Christians treat similar verses in the Bible: either ignore them entirely or claim that they don't really mean what they very clearly say.
Link
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/20/2006 07:59:00 PM 8 comments Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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11 November 2006The Goon Bible Project - Book of Job
The Book of Job gets way more respect than it deserves.
It is, after all, Howard Dean's favorite New Testament book. (I don't know whether he just misspoke during the interview, or whether he really didn't know which testament Job is in. But it was probably the latter. If he's like most American politicians, he's never read the Bible, but he has to pretend that it's one of his favorite books.)
The Goon Bible Project gives the Book of Job a fair and balanced treatment.
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/11/2006 02:41:00 PM 11 comments Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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It is easy for Allah
We shall cast him into Fire, and that is ever easy for Allah. Quran 4:30
In a previous post, I mentioned the more than 200 times that the Quran threatens unbelievers (non-Muslims) with a painful (shameful, dreadful, etc.) doom. But that didn't count the Quran's references to "the Fire". So I thought I'd better look into that.
The Quran mentions "the Fire" 140 times. Here is just a sampling from the short list.
Lo! Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment. 4:56
And the dwellers of the Fire cry out unto the dwellers of the Garden: Pour on us some water or some wherewith Allah hath provided you. They say: Lo! Allah hath forbidden both to disbelievers (in His guidance). 7:50
We have prepared for disbelievers Fire. Its tent encloseth them. If they ask for showers, they will be showered with water like to molten lead which burneth the faces. 18:29
If those who disbelieved but knew the time when they will not be able to drive off the fire from their faces and from their backs, and they will not be helped! 21:39
But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads. 22:19
The fire burneth their faces, and they are glum therein. 23:104
Their retreat is the Fire. Whenever they desire to issue forth from thence, they are brought back thither. Unto them it is said: Taste the torment of the Fire which ye used to deny. 32:20
But as for those who disbelieve, for them is fire of hell; it taketh not complete effect upon them so that they can die, nor is its torment lightened for them. 35:36
Those who are immortal in the Fire and are given boiling water to drink so that it teareth their bowels. 47:15
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/11/2006 11:01:00 AM 2 comments Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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04 November 2006Ted Haggard: It's written in the Bible
Pastor Ted had this to say in the Jesus Camp movie:
We've decided the Bible is the Word of God. We don't have to have a general assembly about what we believe. It's written in the Bible. So we don't have to debate about what we should think about homosexual activity. It's written in the Bible.
And he's right about that, too. It is written in the Bible. It not only condemns homosexual activity, but it defines the punishment for it.
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:13
Since it is so clearly written in the Bible, Bible believers have only three choices: kill Pastor Ted (assuming he had sex with a male prostitute), remove Leviticus 20:13 from the Bible, or reject the Bible entirely.
I recommend the third option.
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/04/2006 11:33:00 AM 8 comments Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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01 November 2006Test your faith: Is it as great as Abraham's?
And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and ... offer him there for a burnt offering.... And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. Genesis 22:2, 10
Kill the Afterlife has a great test for believers of the Abrahamic faiths (Jews, Muslims, Christians -- heck, I suppose that'd even include Mormons). What would Abraham do? Would you, could you, should you do likewise?
Are you a Christian? Muslim? Jew? Good, because I want to ask you a question.
Remember the old story about Abraham being commanded by God to kill his son in the land of Moriah? Remember how Abraham was about to faithfully commit infanticide on his own offspring in the name of God, but then at the last second God stopped him?
...
This is a thought/faith experiment. First, we acknowledge that you are an Abrahamic theist (Christian, Muslim, or Jew). Second we assume that you have a child (if you don't have one in real life, let's pretend that you do for the sake of argument). Third, let's imagine that God came to you and told you to sacrifice your child on the peak of the nearest mountain, a la Abraham at Moriah.
Of course, in the story, God stopped Abraham at the last minute and allowed Abraham to kill a ram instead. But Abraham didn't know that God would stop him. And more importantly, Abraham was about to carry out the infanticidal act with total faith and conviction.
So the question to you, dear theist, is: Would you do it?
Seriously! Don't dodge the question. According to your faith, God did it before, so put yourself in Abraham's shoes. This is a test of your faith and conviction. This is a test to see if you put God first in your life!
If God asked you to kill your child, would you do it with total faith and conviction? Would you pass the test as Abraham did?
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/01/2006 04:23:00 PM 6 comments Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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27 November 2006The seven spirits of God (including the Holy Spirit?)
I beheld ... a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God. Revelation 5:6
The book of Revelation is obsessed with the number seven. God's magic number is used 52 times in 30 verses, with 19 things grouped into sevens.
But the most interesting grouping is the number of God's spirits. Who knew that he had seven of them?
Here's the whole crazy list, with links to the verses so you can read them in context (like that would help or something). 1 churches of asia 1:4, 1:11, 1:20(2)
2 spirits before God's throne 1:4
3 golden candlesticks 1:12, 1:13, 1:20(2), 2:1
4 stars in the Jesus' right hand 1:16, 1:20, 2:1, 3:1
5 angels 8:2, 8:6, 15:1, 15:6, 15:7, 15:8, 16:1, 17:1, 21:9
6 spirits of God 3:1, 4:5, 5:6
7 lamps 4:5
8 seals 5:1
9 horns 5:6
10 eyes 5:6
11 trumpets 8:2, 8:6
12 thunders 10:3, 10:4(2)
13 thousand people killed in an earthquake 11:13
14 heads 12:3, 13:1, 17:3, 17:7, 17:9
15 crowns 12:3
16 plagues 15:1, 15:6, 15:8, 21:9
17 golden vials filled with the wrath of God 15:7, 16:1, 17:1, 21:9
18 mountains 17:9
19 kings 17:10
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/27/2006 09:22:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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2 comments:
avila said...
your blog is kinda interesting. I read about the number 7 in someone's blog which was quite interesting too. you may want to have a look.
http://anonymuis.com/2006/11/27/777/
Wed Nov 29, 07:21:00 AM 2006
beepbeepitsme said...
7 thrones - what a greedy bugger.
Sat Jan 13, 11:30:00 PM 2007
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Drunk With Blood Audiobook:
Introduction
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powered by
A biased sample
A Challenge to Christians
How many has God killed? (Complete list and estimated total)
Islam: It's mostly about going to the bathroom
Blogging the Book of Mormon
50 reasons to be ashamed (and not a fan) of Jesus
Who has killed more, Satan or God?
God's Top 50 Killings in the Bible
Where do evil spirits come from?
David, a man after God's own heart (WWDD?)
The worth of a woman: The Bible vs. the Quran
208 ways to get yourself saved
Real men pee standing up
Everybody must get stoned
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25 November 2006Where the worms never die
Where are immortal worms mentioned in the Bible?
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. Isaiah 66:24
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:43-44
And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:45-46
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:47-48
It's not clear (to me at least) what Jesus and Isaiah meant by these verses. Do worms live forever in hell? Is human hell worm heaven? Do nonbelievers suffer and die so that worms may live forever?
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/25/2006 04:24:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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2 comments:
Anonymous said...
another wonderfull thougts from the bible
Thu Apr 26, 08:38:00 AM 2007
Peter said...
It is a possessive "their worm" - here's what one said:
1.) The reflections and reproaches of the sinner’s own conscience are the worm that dieth not; which will cleave to the damned soul as the worms do to the dead body, and prey upon it, and never leave it till it is quite devoured. Son, remember, will set this worm gnawing; and how terrible will it bite that word (Prov. 5:12, 23), How have I hated instruction! The soul that is food to this worm, dies not; and the worm is bred in it, and one with it, and therefore neither doth that die. Damned sinners will be to eternity accusing, condemning, and upbraiding, themselves with their own follies, which, how much soever they are now in love with them, will at the last bite like a serpent, and sting like an adder. (2.) The wrath of God fastening upon a guilty and polluted conscience, is the fire that is not quenched; for it is the wrath of the living God, the eternal God, into whose hands it is a fearful thing to fall. There are no operations of the Spirit of grace upon the souls of the damned sinners, and therefore there is nothing to alter the nature of the fuel, which must remain for ever combustible; nor is there any application of the merit of Christ to them, and therefore there is nothing to appease or quench the violence of the fire. Dr. Whitby shows that the eternity of the torments of hell was not only the constant faith of the Christian church, but had been so of the Jewish church. Josephus saith, The Pharisees held that the souls of the wicked were to be punished with perpetual punishment; and that there was appointed for them a perpetual prison. And Philo saith, The punishment of the wicked is to live for ever dying, and to be for ever in pains and griefs that never cease.
Wed Oct 15, 09:19:00 AM 2008
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22 November 2006Do moderate Muslims believe in hell?
Christians are divided on hell. Some believe in it, some don't. And those that do aren't sure what it's like or who goes there. That's not surprising since the Bible has no clear, consistent teaching about hell (or anything else).
But the Quran has no such problem. If you believe in the Quran, you believe in hell. You know what it's like and who is going there.
I counted 98 passages in the Quran that mention hell. Here's a summary.
Who is going to hell?
Those who deny the existence of hell
This is hell which the guilty deny. They go circling round between it and fierce, boiling water. 55:43-44
All non-muslims
They who disbelieve and deny Our revelations, such are rightful owners of hell. 5:10
But those who disbelieve and deny Our revelations, they are owners of hell-fire. 5:86
Those who disbelieve will be gathered unto hell. 8:36
Lo! hell verily is all around the disbelievers. 9:49
We have appointed hell a dungeon for the disbelievers. 17:8
Lo! We have prepared hell as a welcome for the disbelievers. 18:102
That is their reward: hell, because they disbelieved, and made a jest of Our revelations and Our messengers. 18:106
Hell verily will encompass the disbelievers 29:54
But as for those who disbelieve, for them is fire of hell; it taketh not complete effect upon them so that they can die, nor is its torment lightened for them. 35:36
This is hell which ye were promised (if ye followed him). Burn therein this day for that ye disbelieved. 36:63-64
Those who disbelieve are driven unto hell in troops. 39:71
Those who disbelieve and deny Our revelations, they are owners of hell-fire. 57:19
Anyone who kills a Muslim
Whoso slayeth a believer of set purpose, his reward is hell for ever. 4:93
Muslims that refuse to serve and fight for Allah
When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless manoeuvring for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end. 8:15-16
Those who scorn My service, they will enter hell, disgraced. 40:60
Muslims that oppose or disobey Allah, Muhammad, or the Quran
Whoso opposeth the messenger after the guidance (of Allah) hath been manifested unto him, and followeth other than the believer's way, We appoint for him that unto which he himself hath turned, and expose him unto hell - a hapless journey's end! 4:115
Know they not that whoso opposeth Allah and His messenger, his verily is fire of hell, to abide therein? 9:63
Whoso disobeyeth Allah and His messenger, lo! his is fire of hell, wherein such dwell for ever. 72:23
What's it like in hell?
On the day when it will (all) be heated in the fire of hell, and their foreheads and their flanks and their backs will be branded therewith. 9:35
Hell is before him, and he is made to drink a festering water, Which he sippeth but can hardly swallow, and death cometh unto him from every side while yet he cannot die, and before him is a harsh doom. 14:16-17
Hell, where they will burn, an evil resting-place. Here is a boiling and an ice-cold draught, so let them taste it. 38:56-57
Lo! the guilty are immortal in hell's torment. It is not relaxed for them, and they despair therein. 43:74-75
Take him and drag him to the midst of hell, Then pour upon his head the torment of boiling water. 44:47-48
On the day when they are dragged into the Fire upon their faces (it is said unto them): Feel the touch of hell. 54:48
Then the welcome will be boiling water And roasting at hell-fire. 56:92-94
But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there are some moderate Muslims (like Cat Stevens?) that don't believe in hell. If so, I'd love to hear about it.
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/22/2006 02:58:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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6 comments:
Sophie1 said...
What I find particularly despicable is this tendency to make fun of your victims. Allah repeatedly mocks hells inhabitants.
Thu Nov 23, 02:42:00 PM 2006
Anonymous said...
believing in heaven and hell are basic parts of the Islamic faith. According to the religion, if you deny the existence of hell, you can not be considered a muslim.
Thu Nov 30, 09:41:00 AM 2006
Anonymous said...
Islam does advocate belief in Hell. However, your schema for categorization is not exactly accurate. No human being has the authority or ability to designate who will go to Hell. "Disbelief" is not exactly explained in your list (and I would say this ambiguity is abused by Muslims and non-Muslims alike.)
Furthermore, there are so many levels at which all of these verses you have cited are understood, and I encourage you to do a more in-depth study, rather than a superficial compilation.
I think it's interesting, though, that you are equating "moderate" religion with an unattachment to disbelief in Hell. Why is this a marker of moderate practitioners of religion? It's definately coming at it from a particular bias (yes, we all come at everything with a particular bias...)
Sat Dec 30, 04:28:00 PM 2006
Jeremiah Ross said...
It should be noted that the Quran states that ultimately all but a very small number of people consigned to hell will be pulled out by God. Some Quranic scholars have referred to hell as a purification process. Because of the chronological ambiguity of some of the Surahs it is hard to tell whether this is was an early belief, whether this belief reverberated throughout the 30+ years of revelations, or if Mohammed used more harsh descriptions of hell bound peoples prior to battles.
Mon Jan 01, 12:26:00 AM 2007
lucy11 said...
This is wrong information. The only one who has the right to divine christianity is God. The God of the bible that is the God of Abraham, Isac and Jacob. If a Christian is following the bible that is called bible based Christianity and there is no other kind. There are many groups who espouse to be Christians, but that does not make them a Christian.The bible definately gives a clear cut view on hell and a clear cut view on who is going there. The bible does not however say that a man can decide who goes. The bible also says that God prepared hell for the devil and his fallen-angels.And that it is not God's will that any man should go there. Then the bible also says that all men are condemned to hell from inception as they have a sinful nature. The bible tells us what sin is and then the bible tells us the solution to sin is to be redeemed this is the result of grace which is what you recieve when you recieve Jesus Christ because of repentance. Every single human being on this earth including muslims are exspected to recieve Jesus not only so they can say they are saved in passing but to live for Jesus in this life. To obey and keep his commandments. The bible then says who ever does not will go to hell. I don't think it could have sent any clearer of a message!
Mon Mar 22, 04:58:00 PM 2010
God's Disciple said...
Hell is described pretty well in the Bible but for unbelievers it's hard to understand. It does require some studying. For instance, in the old testament, hell is a "outer darkness", an eternal separation from God. In the new testament, hell is described as an everlasting flame that is never quenched. The goats will have their inheritance here. It irritates me when atheists use such strong imagery, as you have, to convey the idea that Christians are stupid and don't know what they believe in. It shows your true character as a human, someone who just tries to say inflammatory things about harmless people just to make them upset. Just know that every Christian in the whole world would be ready to accept you as one of their own if you'd be so willing to part ways with your own "light" of understanding the world. Heaven is describe at some length, as better than anyone could imagine. My question for you though, "What do you think is the holding force behind every Christian's belief in the world?" And if you answer it's because of their stupidity or insecurities with the rest of the world, then you are wrong. Our God is not a God of nothingness. He is a God of power and strength. This Allah, however, is something else all together. I really believe the scripture in the Bible that refers to the false prophet inheriting the lake of fire pertains to Mohammed, the starter of Islam. I see that this was posted back in 2006. So I don't have high hopes that you'll even acknowledge my post. But I do thank you for compiling this list of scriptures. I was curious if they did or not.
Mon May 16, 10:45:00 PM 2011
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11 November 2006The Goon Bible Project - Book of Job
The Book of Job gets way more respect than it deserves.
It is, after all, Howard Dean's favorite New Testament book. (I don't know whether he just misspoke during the interview, or whether he really didn't know which testament Job is in. But it was probably the latter. If he's like most American politicians, he's never read the Bible, but he has to pretend that it's one of his favorite books.)
The Goon Bible Project gives the Book of Job a fair and balanced treatment.
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/11/2006 02:41:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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11 comments:
Ritchie Annand said...
I can't wait for a next installment by these folks.
The complaints of inaccuracy I've seen in some of the comments on the video are rather nitpicky, some of the "Satan came humbly, not just chumming around", which is a bit beside the point.
Anyhow, I'm glad it left out most of the book of Job.
Quite frankly, the way that most of the book of Job goes... if it were a faithful account, I think it would be proof of ancient e-mail, because nobody in their right mind would sit there and ask 41 questions before waiting for a reply ;)
(Yes, I know, literary devices and all that)
It's still a pretty horrible parable, to my mind. One can admire Job's countenance in the face of this, but it certainly doesn't leave the deity looking worthy of admiration, nor is it a resonant explanation of "bad things happen to good people"... in particular because you wouldn't think that God would keep making that same damned bet :)
Sat Nov 11, 08:18:00 PM 2006
Dave said...
I enjoyed the Goon Bible Project video, but it completely left out what I found to be one of the most repugnant aspects of the story of Job. Unlike what the video implied, god didn’t just leave Job’s 10 children dead. God replaced Job’s 10 kids, and his three new daughters were really hot! Imagine how pleased Job was to get rid of his first “normal” kids and have an even better set, with daughters fairer than any other in the land! (Job 42:15) Since the bible is clear that Job got back twice as much as was taken (Job 42:10), one can reasonably conclude that god thinks good looking children are worth twice as much as normal ones. Seriously, as a father of daughters, I find the story of Job one of the most morally corrupt in the entire Bible.
Mon Nov 13, 09:55:00 AM 2006
Steve Wells said...
I agree, Dave. That bothered me, too. Replacing Job's daughters with better, prettier ones is about as disgusting as it gets. I wish they'd have mentioned that in the video.
Mon Nov 13, 10:34:00 AM 2006
jake3988 said...
Hey. I'm your friend. That gives me sole permission to give you boils, kill your family, burn your house down, and make you sick as hell.
Why anyone would want to put themselves through this torture is just stupid. And it shows what a cruel inmane prick God is.
Thu Nov 16, 03:48:00 PM 2006
Anonymous said...
grossly inaccruate representation of the story of Job, not to mention quite disrespectful and particularly offensive. Mock God now...if you dare... I won't be seeing you later
Mon Nov 27, 08:34:00 PM 2006
Dave said...
Excellent and courageous post anonymous… I think I will change my mind and become a Christian again! Not! You are right about one thing; the story of Job is extremely disrespectful and particularly offensive! By the way, we are not mocking God; we are mocking the biblical god. Big difference. Perhaps you can worship a god that would murder a man’s family to prove an immoral point. I can’t.
Tue Jan 02, 03:05:00 PM 2007
lavoll said...
Job, the story so many christians think they so well that they have never bothered to read it. please, do read it, and stick to what it actually says and dont make any apologies for god, and it will reveleal itself in all its cruelty.
Sat Sep 29, 05:23:00 PM 2007
Robin said...
As a Christian and a pastor, I laughed (with, not at) the video and many of your comments.
Jung suggested that a significant value of Job is that it criticized God. When I read the book (which I have many times) I see in its pages the conflict between divine intervention, human suffering and free will. For example, God didn't kill Job's children, although he allowed it to happen. Should we assume when bad things happen that God is to blame, either through action or inaction?
Someone made a comment about not mocking any God only the god of the Bible. If (as I believe to be true) God is real, then does it matter what definition you use? The problem is the same...how do you reconcile God's ability to be, well, God with human suffering? Voltaire suggested it was impossible.
Perhaps that is the lesson of Job and why God doesn't explain himself to Job: bad stuff happens. It just does. What you choose to do about it determines your consequences.
Maybe not...just thinking out loud.
Sat Mar 29, 03:23:00 PM 2008
dmcmillon said...
I absolutely agree with Robin, and disagree the spirit of the earlier Anonymous's comment. One of the most beautiful things about the book of Job is the honesty that Job displays. Job himself echoes the common (complaint? observation? I'm not sure what word to use here) of many who read the book, that God, as sovereign, bears at least some responsibility for Job's suffering. The essence of Job's complaint is: "God, I know you have control over this situation, and this still sucks. I don't understand why you're allowing this to happen, and I even wish that I were dead because of how bad this is." Job sounds like he is angry with God because he is angry with God, and God affirms Job's perception of reality over that of his friends. If you read the narrative carefully, you will notice many similarities between what Job says and what Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar say. Notably, they all affirm that man is powerless and without standing before God. These men are all men of faith. The difference is that where Job speaks out of confusion and humility in his frustration, Job's friends speak as if they understand the system. They essentially say, "Job, you just don't get God like I do." Thus, even while Job speaks in so much frustration at God, and God himself speaks in a way that belittles Job, he does nothing to condemn Job's crying out to Him in his frustration. One thing that this teaches us today is that God desires that we bring our frustrations to Him, not cover them up with platitudes and try to will ourselves into being happy. God does not expect us to grin and bear anything that comes our way. I won't patronize you by trying to convince you that God is blessing Job throughout his story, not just at the end, but I will say this: Reading, understanding, and appreciating Job requires a position of humility. It requires of me that I acknowledge the fact that I may not know what is best for myself. I may want things that are not best for me. This is true of all mankind (as anyone who knows young children can attest), and recognizing this is the first step to understanding Job.
Fri Oct 03, 03:42:00 PM 2008
dragonspirit said...
Even if God doesn't explicitly absolve himself of all responsibility in this matter, the silence he accords himself does not make him any more worthy of respect. It's worrying to see how Christians can derive moral teachings out of an explicitly perverse and self-deprecating text; regardless of the good one sees out of this text(and the assumptions of optimism that goes with it), the concept that is being sold here is one of total subjection to the mood swings of divine entities who can come up to you anytime, rob you of everything you treasure and love and inflict disease and poverty upon you. All for the sake of a gamble. As if that wasn't repulsive enough, it further confirms its dehumanising representations of human beings as replaceable commodities by simply filling in the vacancies in Job's family with, to quote some of the earlier comments, prettier daughters. (Not to mention the condescending idea that physical beauty holds greater worth, or is in some way adequate compensation) Inherent in this book is also the notion that Job's wife is morally inferior because she tried to get him to curse God, which seems analogous to Eve telling Adam to eat apples. In other words, the degradation of women once again.
On an ending note, I would like to say that if any divine entity ever told me to sacrifice my son as a sign of reverence, I would unequivocally tell him (and why not her?) to fuck off.
Wed Apr 18, 04:52:00 AM 2012
Francis Gil de la Cruz said...
My cat Gary scratches the already poor looking sofa, jumps in front of the monitor when I'm working, arrives, eats and then leaves when he's satisfied.
He never praises me. He seldom communicates any form of appreciation.
I support him because I am stronger and smarter than him and I love him and would hate to see him suffer.
My relationship with my cat isn't perfect but compared to the story of Job, it's evidence that I'm better than some apparently all-power god that so many humans worship and am much better off having left such a ridiculous way of thinking.
Tue Jul 16, 06:40:00 PM 2013
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11 November 2006It is easy for Allah
We shall cast him into Fire, and that is ever easy for Allah. Quran 4:30
In a previous post, I mentioned the more than 200 times that the Quran threatens unbelievers (non-Muslims) with a painful (shameful, dreadful, etc.) doom. But that didn't count the Quran's references to "the Fire". So I thought I'd better look into that.
The Quran mentions "the Fire" 140 times. Here is just a sampling from the short list.
Lo! Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment. 4:56
And the dwellers of the Fire cry out unto the dwellers of the Garden: Pour on us some water or some wherewith Allah hath provided you. They say: Lo! Allah hath forbidden both to disbelievers (in His guidance). 7:50
We have prepared for disbelievers Fire. Its tent encloseth them. If they ask for showers, they will be showered with water like to molten lead which burneth the faces. 18:29
If those who disbelieved but knew the time when they will not be able to drive off the fire from their faces and from their backs, and they will not be helped! 21:39
But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads. 22:19
The fire burneth their faces, and they are glum therein. 23:104
Their retreat is the Fire. Whenever they desire to issue forth from thence, they are brought back thither. Unto them it is said: Taste the torment of the Fire which ye used to deny. 32:20
But as for those who disbelieve, for them is fire of hell; it taketh not complete effect upon them so that they can die, nor is its torment lightened for them. 35:36
Those who are immortal in the Fire and are given boiling water to drink so that it teareth their bowels. 47:15
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/11/2006 11:01:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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2 comments:
def said...
And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed(Quran) from time to time to Our servant(Muhammad (PBUH)), then produce a Sura(chapter) like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.(2:23)
But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.(2:24)
Here is also a challange for those who are doubtful aboout Quran Divine Revealation.Everyone is given chance to Make Chapter like it.and then warning if no one can make. i think its Justice not cruelity.
Sun Sep 14, 01:41:00 AM 2008
Steve Wells said...
The Quran sucks, def -- all of it. So it is easy to create a surah better than any in the Quran.
Here's one that is better than Surah 111, for example.
"In the name of Marvin, most-merciful, all-compassionate:
Damn both hands of my neighbor Sam; damn him!
His money and children will not save him!
He will be burnt in a blazing flame --
Sam and his dame, who is also to blame.
As she was carrying wood to her home,
She put some thorns in the path where I roam.
So she shall suffer a torment most dire,
Dangling in hell from a noose of palm-fibre."
Sun Sep 14, 08:01:00 AM 2008
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04 November 2006Ted Haggard: It's written in the Bible
Pastor Ted had this to say in the Jesus Camp movie:
We've decided the Bible is the Word of God. We don't have to have a general assembly about what we believe. It's written in the Bible. So we don't have to debate about what we should think about homosexual activity. It's written in the Bible.
And he's right about that, too. It is written in the Bible. It not only condemns homosexual activity, but it defines the punishment for it.
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:13
Since it is so clearly written in the Bible, Bible believers have only three choices: kill Pastor Ted (assuming he had sex with a male prostitute), remove Leviticus 20:13 from the Bible, or reject the Bible entirely.
I recommend the third option.
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/04/2006 11:33:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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8 comments:
Dirk_Star said...
What is the difference between michael Jackson and pastor Ted?
ANS: Michael can sing...
Sun Nov 05, 12:51:00 PM 2006
Anonymous said...
The flying spagetti monster says that pastor ted is the gay antichrist. We should stone him to be safe
Mon Nov 06, 10:39:00 AM 2006
Anonymous said...
I think it's fine time the Evangelicals demonstrated their belief in the perfect word of the Bible. It says kill him; let thine stoning begin.
Mon Nov 06, 01:07:00 PM 2006
Hesmari said...
i am very interested in knowing your believes and why the blatant disrespect for God and religion? please do a post on that i would love to read about it. o ja very interesting blog.
Wed Nov 08, 10:02:00 AM 2006
jake3988 said...
3rd option here.
Sat Nov 11, 08:56:00 AM 2006
Anonymous said...
3rd option: "Go and sin no more".
Thu Jan 25, 06:51:00 AM 2007
Ahren said...
4th option: realize that the Bible does not in fact condemn loving homosexual relationships, but only prostitution, pedarasty, slavery, and pagan sex worship.
I choose that one.
Sun Oct 14, 05:26:00 PM 2007
Asana Bodhitharta said...
You should know that marriage is a commitment of
continuous engagement. If a man and a woman desire
each other and commit they shall be considered
married. If they are not ready to be married then they
should refrain from entanglement. Never shall two men
be acceptable in marriage. However if a man has
committed to another man in the past and has since
refrained from the commitment out of repentance then
he shall be Forgiven, for God is the Acceptor of sincere
repentance.
Sun Dec 16, 11:24:00 AM 2007
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01 November 2006Test your faith: Is it as great as Abraham's?
And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and ... offer him there for a burnt offering.... And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. Genesis 22:2, 10
Kill the Afterlife has a great test for believers of the Abrahamic faiths (Jews, Muslims, Christians -- heck, I suppose that'd even include Mormons). What would Abraham do? Would you, could you, should you do likewise?
Are you a Christian? Muslim? Jew? Good, because I want to ask you a question.
Remember the old story about Abraham being commanded by God to kill his son in the land of Moriah? Remember how Abraham was about to faithfully commit infanticide on his own offspring in the name of God, but then at the last second God stopped him?
...
This is a thought/faith experiment. First, we acknowledge that you are an Abrahamic theist (Christian, Muslim, or Jew). Second we assume that you have a child (if you don't have one in real life, let's pretend that you do for the sake of argument). Third, let's imagine that God came to you and told you to sacrifice your child on the peak of the nearest mountain, a la Abraham at Moriah.
Of course, in the story, God stopped Abraham at the last minute and allowed Abraham to kill a ram instead. But Abraham didn't know that God would stop him. And more importantly, Abraham was about to carry out the infanticidal act with total faith and conviction.
So the question to you, dear theist, is: Would you do it?
Seriously! Don't dodge the question. According to your faith, God did it before, so put yourself in Abraham's shoes. This is a test of your faith and conviction. This is a test to see if you put God first in your life!
If God asked you to kill your child, would you do it with total faith and conviction? Would you pass the test as Abraham did?
Posted by Steve Wells at 11/01/2006 04:23:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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6 comments:
jake3988 said...
A lot of christians i know (and some as actors on tv) keep always telling me that 'God tests those whom he loves most'.
God: Hey, sure, I'll be your friend. But as a stipulation, every so often, I'm going to make your life a living hell just to see if you'll still love me.
Just look at what happened to Job and you'll see just how stupid that is. If my believing in a deity got me WORSE than I am now... what's the bloody point? NONE!
Wed Nov 01, 05:37:00 PM 2006
zooplah said...
Where did that picture come from? It's just that it seems like in all those pictures, angels always have really bad hair. Is there no Pantene in Heaven?
Fri Nov 03, 01:44:00 AM 2006
Steve Wells said...
No, zooplah, there is no Pantene in Heaven.
But I think the "bad hair" that you're seeing is angel's wing, not his hair.
The painting "The Sacrifice of Abraham" by Caravaggio. I've added a link so you can get a better look.
Fri Nov 03, 05:57:00 AM 2006
Anonymous said...
(See Romans 5 and 1 Peter 4 in the Bible for the Bible's views on suffering -- these things build faith, character, endurance, and so forth.)
As for Job, at the end of the story, he ended up with a lot more of everything than what he had before it was taken away (you can't just look at Job's suffering itself). Does this help?
Thu Dec 28, 07:43:00 AM 2006
zach said...
How do you know that Abraham didn't know God would stop him? God promised exactly *what* beforehand? Yes, if God said to do that, and if I was fully convinced that it was Him, but because I know about His character, I would be doing so knowing that God had some other plans. God knows you, so the "proving" is for your sake.
Sun Mar 11, 11:12:00 PM 2007
Simon said...
Good question.
Zach, you've just rationalized a reason why you would go along with God's request for you to murder. OK, put away your rational mind (as theists are always telling atheists) and imagine going through with the act. There's your child in your hands and you take out some murder implement, put it to your child's throat...
You can imagine the rest. Still comfortable with it?
Wed Apr 23, 09:09:00 AM 2008
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22 December 2006Absalom's hair was heavy upon him
But in all Israel there was none to be so much praised as Absalom for his beauty: from the sole of his foot even to the crown of his head there was no blemish in him. And when he polled his head [cut his hair], (for it was at every year's end that he polled it: because the hair was heavy on him, therefore he polled it:) he weighed the hair of his head at two hundred shekels after the king's weight. 2 Samuel 14:25-26
Absalom was the best looking guy in all of Israel -- with one hell of a head of hair. He'd let it grow all year and then cut it, which he had to do each year because it got so darned heavy. One year's growth weighed 200 skekels.
And how heavy is 200 shekels? Well, one shekel weighed about 11 grams. So Absalom's haircut trimmings weighed in at 2.2 kilograms.
How does this compare with normal human hair?
An average head hair has a diameter of about 0.007 cm (70 micrometers) and grows 15 cm per year. And an average head has about 100,000 hair follicles on it. Since human hair has a density of 1.32 g/cm3, we can estimate the weight of an average person's yearly hair production.
weight = pi * (.0035 cm)2 * 15 cm * 100,000 hairs * 1.32 g/cm3 = 76 g
So an average person produces about 0.076 kilogram of hair annually -- about than 1/30th that of Absalom.
Of course Absalom wasn't an average person. He was, after all, the best looking guy in Israel. So maybe his hair was 30 times as thick or 20 times as dense as normal human hair. Or maybe the Bible was just making stuff up.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source for human hair values: Robbins, C.R., Chemical and Physical Behavior of Human Hair, Fourth Edition, Springer (2002)
Posted by Steve Wells at 12/22/2006 01:30:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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4 comments:
Alxsteele said...
Hi,
Thank you for your (sometimes) thoughtful (sometimes not so much) interaction with religious texts. I confess a limited experience with the Qur'an and Book of Mormon, but more extensive experience with the Bible.
You challenge us all greatly, and I appreciate your honesty. May I challenge you in return? My "New Year's" challenge would be that you read the Gospel of John in either the NIV or ESV a few verses a day for the rest of January. Then, at the end, simply pray, "If there is a God out there who shows himself in this book, prove it."
I would love to see some posts on your experience on this.
Thank you again for taking the time to read this post.
Sincerely,
Alxsteele
Thu Jan 06, 09:04:00 AM 2011
dodge said...
Apparently the custom of royalty at this point in history was to use fragrant oils, gold dust and jewels in the hair, and pile the hair high on the head (even for males) to give the appearance of a crown by the way the hair was worn.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/395403/a_really_bad_hair_daythe_story_of_absalom_pg2.html?cat=38
Your thoughts?
Sat Feb 05, 11:22:00 AM 2011
Scotty said...
Simple combinatorics show that 16 times the average isn't unreasonable at all. Consider this: you have 4 variables, each of which you took (more or less) an average value for. If you double the value of these 4 variables, which is a reasonable possibility since they are all statistical measurements that fit a standard normal distribution (a "bell curve") then you will get a final number that is 32 times bigger than your average estimate. So a person with hair weight growth that is 16 times the average would certainly be noteworthy (that's how he got the mention in the Jewish historical records), but definetely not unreasonable; probably not even a world record. Do a bit more analysis before sneering at a perfectly reasonable historical record.
Fri Dec 16, 12:25:00 AM 2011
Steve Wells said...
Scotty,
Simple combinatorics show that 16 times the average isn't unreasonable at all.
Sure, that makes sense, Scotty. Thanks for sharing.
Does simple combinatorics also show that a guy that is 16 times the average (100 feet tall or so) isn't unreasonable at all?
Thu Dec 22, 01:27:00 PM 2011
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blasphemy challenge
THE CHALLENGE
View larger version on YouTube
THE DAMNED
See all responses
UPDATE: The Rational Response Squad has awarded all 1001 DVDs of The God Who Wasn't There to participants in the Blasphemy Challenge. If you want a copy of the movie, you'll have to buy it the old fashioned way at the official site. The following is provided for historical purposes:
The Rational Response Squad is giving away 1001 DVDs of The God Who Wasn't There, the hit documentary that the Los Angeles Times calls "provocative -- to put it mildly."
There's only one catch: We want your soul.
It's simple. You record a short message damning yourself to Hell, you upload it to YouTube, and then the Rational Response Squad will send you a free The God Who Wasn't There DVD. It's that easy.
INSTRUCTIONS:
You may damn yourself to Hell however you would like, but somewhere in your video you must say this phrase: "I deny the Holy Spirit."
Why? Because, according to Mark 3:29 in the Holy Bible, "Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." Jesus will forgive you for just about anything, but he won't forgive you for denying the existence of the Holy Spirit. Ever. This is a one-way road you're taking here.
Once you have shot your blasphemous video, just follow these two easy steps:
1. Go to this link on YouTube to upload your video as a "Video Response" to the Blasphemy Challenge. (You can log in or register on that page if necessary.) Please put the URL http://www.blasphemychallenge.com somewhere in the text description when you upload your video.
2. When the video appears on YouTube, send the URL to this email address: waronchristmas@hotmail.com. Also include a complete United States mailing address* so we can send your free copy of The God Who Wasn't There.
That's it. We're only giving away 1001 DVDs, so blaspheme now. More questions are answered in the FAQ. View the press release here. View television coverage here. The God Who Wasn't There review. The God Who Wasn't There rebuttal.
*Sorry, no free shipping outside the United States on DVDs. But international blasphemers will receive $35 worth of Rational Response Squad radio show downloads instead, or you can opt to pay the $8 shipping and handling for the DVD.
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22 December 2006Absalom's hair was heavy upon him
But in all Israel there was none to be so much praised as Absalom for his beauty: from the sole of his foot even to the crown of his head there was no blemish in him. And when he polled his head [cut his hair], (for it was at every year's end that he polled it: because the hair was heavy on him, therefore he polled it:) he weighed the hair of his head at two hundred shekels after the king's weight. 2 Samuel 14:25-26
Absalom was the best looking guy in all of Israel -- with one hell of a head of hair. He'd let it grow all year and then cut it, which he had to do each year because it got so darned heavy. One year's growth weighed 200 skekels.
And how heavy is 200 shekels? Well, one shekel weighed about 11 grams. So Absalom's haircut trimmings weighed in at 2.2 kilograms.
How does this compare with normal human hair?
An average head hair has a diameter of about 0.007 cm (70 micrometers) and grows 15 cm per year. And an average head has about 100,000 hair follicles on it. Since human hair has a density of 1.32 g/cm3, we can estimate the weight of an average person's yearly hair production.
weight = pi * (.0035 cm)2 * 15 cm * 100,000 hairs * 1.32 g/cm3 = 76 g
So an average person produces about 0.076 kilogram of hair annually -- about than 1/30th that of Absalom.
Of course Absalom wasn't an average person. He was, after all, the best looking guy in Israel. So maybe his hair was 30 times as thick or 20 times as dense as normal human hair. Or maybe the Bible was just making stuff up.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source for human hair values: Robbins, C.R., Chemical and Physical Behavior of Human Hair, Fourth Edition, Springer (2002)
Posted by Steve Wells at 12/22/2006 01:30:00 PM 4 comments Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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19 December 2006I deny the existence of the Holy Spirit
The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven. Matthew 12:31
He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation. Mark 3:29
Unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. Luke 12:10
Take the Blasphemy Challenge; deny the existence of the Holy Spirit. It's time for us all to stop believing (or pretending to believe) out of fear or politeness.
Posted by Steve Wells at 12/19/2006 03:44:00 PM 51 comments Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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42: It's not God's favorite number
(Although it is The Answer to The Ultimate Question Of Life, the Universe and Everything.)
One of my favorite Bible stories for children is the Story of Elisha and the bears.
He [Elisha] went up from there to Bethel; and while he was going up on the way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him, saying, "Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!" And he turned around, and when he saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. And two she-bears came out of the woods and tore forty-two of the boys. (New Revised Version) 2 Kings 2:23-24
So much action packed into two short verses!
But what's really important here is the moral of the story. What is God trying to teach us here?
Well some things are obvious.
Don't make fun of religious leaders (or God might kill you in a particularly gruesome way).
Children shouldn't make fun of bald men.
God doesn't much like the number 42.
Okay, maybe the third one isn't so obvious. But doesn't it seem strange to have 42 little boys running out of the city screaming "Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!" all at once? And then to have all 42 of them ripped apart by bears? Two or three, even a half dozen maybe, but not 42.
So maybe the number of boys was inflated a bit. But, still, why make it 42?
Because, you see, God really likes seven (that's why he has seven spirits) and he hates six (666 and all that). So since 7 is perfect and six is evil, 7 times 6 is perfectly evil.
So when the story of Elisha and the bears was made up (well, you didn't really believe it, did you?), 42 was selected for the number of boys. It showed how bad those boys must have been and how much they deserved being torn up by bears.
For other demonstrations of God's hatred of 42 see Judges 12:5-6; 2 Kings 10:14; Revelation 11:2, and 13:5.
Posted by Steve Wells at 12/19/2006 02:10:00 PM 11 comments Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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18 December 2006Where does evil come from?
Behold, this evil is of the Lord. 2 Kings 6:33
As I pointed out in my last post, evil spirits (according to the Bible, anyway) usually come from God (not Satan).
But what about evil itself? Where does it come from?
Here is the Bible's answer.
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7
The Bible tells us that God is the proud creator of everything evil. So whenever and wherever you find evil, you can be sure that God is its source.
Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? Amos 3:6
Posted by Steve Wells at 12/18/2006 10:05:00 AM 28 comments Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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05 December 2006Where do evil spirits come from?
Seems like silly question, doesn't it? At least it would to most Bible believers. Evil spirits come from Satan. But that's not what the Bible says.
The phrase "evil spirit(s)" occurs 14 times (in 13 verses) in the Bible, in 8 of which the evil spirits were sent directly and explicitly by God.
The first evil spirit was sent by God to kill people in war.
Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech. Judges 9:23
God sent the next evil spirit to cause Saul to have a mental breakdown. (But luckily, David plays his harp and makes Saul's "evil spirit from the Lord" go away.)
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well. 1 Samuel 16:14-16
And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him. 1 Samuel 16:23
Then God sent an evil spirit to cause Saul to prophesy and sit with a javelin in his hand.
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand. 1 Samuel 18:10
And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand. 1 Samuel 19:9
The other 6 "evil spirit" occurrences are in the New Testament. The Bible doesn't say where the evil spirits came from, but they are usually associated with some type of illness (Which come from God, right?).
And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight. Luke 7:21
And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, Luke 8:2
So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them. Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. ... And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. Acts 19:12-16
So the Bible is fairly clear on evil spirits: they are either sent directly by God or their origin is unknown. The Bible never attributes evil spirits to Satan.
(Thanks to Sternwallow at the Raving Atheists Forum for this one.)
Posted by Steve Wells at 12/05/2006 10:13:00 AM 22 comments Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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03 December 2006Swear not at all: Christians and the oath of office
A Christian who believes in the Bible shouldn't swear on one.
The Bible, of course, is worse than useless when it comes to consistent advice on morality. But the New Testament (to avoid confusion, ignore the Old Testament on this one) is pretty clear about one thing: Christians shouldn't swear. Not to God and not on the Bible or on anything else.
Here's what Jesus (supposedly) said about it:
But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven for it is God's throne; Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil. Matthew 5:34-37
And the Book of James condemns swearing "above all things." I guess that'd make it the worst possible sin.
But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation. James 5:12
But what about Muslims? Is there anything in the Quran that forbids them from swearing on it? Well, not that I know of, but let me know if there is and I'll note it in the SAQ.
Of course this shouldn't be an issue. The swearing-in ceremony doesn't require the use of the Bible, Quran, or any other religious book. So Representative Elect Keith Ellison shouldn't have a problem getting sworn-in, although he should leave his Quran at home.
But what about Christian representatives? Since the Bible forbids them ("above all else") to take any type of oath, they can't take the oath of office without renouncing their faith.
Oh well, that shouldn't be a problem for them. Most are just pretending to believe for political purposes, and the rest are mostly just hypocrites.
Posted by Steve Wells at 12/03/2006 10:41:00 AM 12 comments Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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19 December 200642: It's not God's favorite number
(Although it is The Answer to The Ultimate Question Of Life, the Universe and Everything.)
One of my favorite Bible stories for children is the Story of Elisha and the bears.
He [Elisha] went up from there to Bethel; and while he was going up on the way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him, saying, "Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!" And he turned around, and when he saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. And two she-bears came out of the woods and tore forty-two of the boys. (New Revised Version) 2 Kings 2:23-24
So much action packed into two short verses!
But what's really important here is the moral of the story. What is God trying to teach us here?
Well some things are obvious.
Don't make fun of religious leaders (or God might kill you in a particularly gruesome way).
Children shouldn't make fun of bald men.
God doesn't much like the number 42.
Okay, maybe the third one isn't so obvious. But doesn't it seem strange to have 42 little boys running out of the city screaming "Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!" all at once? And then to have all 42 of them ripped apart by bears? Two or three, even a half dozen maybe, but not 42.
So maybe the number of boys was inflated a bit. But, still, why make it 42?
Because, you see, God really likes seven (that's why he has seven spirits) and he hates six (666 and all that). So since 7 is perfect and six is evil, 7 times 6 is perfectly evil.
So when the story of Elisha and the bears was made up (well, you didn't really believe it, did you?), 42 was selected for the number of boys. It showed how bad those boys must have been and how much they deserved being torn up by bears.
For other demonstrations of God's hatred of 42 see Judges 12:5-6; 2 Kings 10:14; Revelation 11:2, and 13:5.
Posted by Steve Wells at 12/19/2006 02:10:00 PM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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11 comments:
Anonymous said...
A mathematical approach to the Bible- I like that!
Tue Dec 19, 03:09:00 PM 2006
Anonymous said...
Very interesting. That's a damn good number study. Keep up the good work, my Christian friend!!!
Although what kind of proof do you have that the story was made up?
Tue Dec 19, 06:21:00 PM 2006
jake3988 said...
There's plenty. But it would take books upon books explaining it, all you have to do is look.
Wed Dec 27, 08:18:00 AM 2006
Anonymous said...
Who cares whether or not it's made up? What's important is that the good lord saw fit to inspire someone to write it down so that we could learn valuable lessons from it today. Praise be.
Mon Jan 08, 12:49:00 AM 2007
Sunil Ramalingam said...
This is one of PG Wodehouse's favorite Biblical stories. His characters often referred to it on occasions when they were rude to old,or bald, or old bald men.
Wed Jan 24, 10:48:00 AM 2007
Ben Thomason said...
Why assume just 42 boys came out of the city? Yes, the text is clear that 42 boys (actually the word used in the earliest text we have means young men) got mauled. But it says "42 of the boys" indicating that just 42 of a larger group were injured. Earlier, verse 23 says that simply some boys came out of the city, leaving the number that actually came out to taunt Elisha up in the air, though it must have been at least 42. I'm also not sure it's appropriate to chalk these up as "kills" by God, once again looking to the meaning of the actual hebrew word used for "tore" or "mauled" or however it's translated in your version. Injured seriously, for sure, though.
I believe a critical reading of the text is highly important, and misunderstandings such as this can lead to a very skewed perception of biblical events and doctrine.
Tue Feb 12, 06:51:00 PM 2008
RiZeN said...
to the previous comment...
But Unless you know someone who speaks aramaic.. your pooched.
The bible has been tainted ever since King James kindly chose to rewrite it to his liking.
Also, I'm pretty sure god would refer to these types of "kills" as frags. This is all just a sick little game to him after all.
Sun Feb 24, 05:24:00 AM 2008
Bill Michtom said...
"So since 7 is perfect and six is evil, 7 times 6 is perfectly evil."
Why couldn't it be 6 times 7 and be evilly perfect?
Sun Nov 15, 01:48:00 AM 2009
rilu said...
I doubt "42" has a significant meaning here. It is well known that the number "40" was a regional number used as a metaphor for too many to count. Today we would say "a million" - it rarely means a literal million.
It seems more reasonable to assume the author of passage is just a lame brained as the passage indicates. It is unlikely he could do math or think creatively.
As a result, I would argue "42" is his way of saying "infinity + 1".
Thu Dec 10, 06:13:00 AM 2009
Daystar said...
[Sorry Steve, I didn't realize I had sent this response as a response to the SAB until now]
The people of Jericho were no friends to prophets of Jehovah. On his way to Bethel it isn't disclosed how far it took to gather this possibly hostile group of children, or whether or not Elisha may have felt his safety was threatened, but it is safe to say that God knew these children were opposed to his purpose set before Elisha and God wasn't going to tolerate it any further than he did. (Proverbs 17:12)
Since Elisha was wearing the official robe of the prophet, as the children in the area may have been aware, their taunting may have been directed at Jehovah himself. The question is were the children saying "Go on up" meaning to Jericho or as in the way Elijah had been transported elsewhere on earth at 2 Kings 2:11? It is very likely the case that the children were challenging God and blaspheming him.
The number 42 here has no specific meaning or purpose, it just happens to be the number of children in the event. Some scholars think that in this case the number has some significance, but I am not inclined to think so. This is brought up in Revelation 11:2 and 13:5, where the holy city is trampled for 42 months. That is three and a half years, the same length of time of Jesus' ministry. The case of 2 Kings 10:14 reminds me of the case of the children and the bears, it just happened to be how many of the men were killed. You can't place great significance on any number that is repeated in the 66 books of the Bible based entirely upon that number having been repeated.
Fri Feb 05, 08:37:00 PM 2010
mariolandblog said...
@daystar
"
Since Elisha was wearing the official robe of the prophet, as the children in the area may have been aware, their taunting may have been directed at Jehovah himself."
So, God is bald?
That would explain a lot...
Sun Feb 28, 02:04:00 PM 2010
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18 December 2006Where does evil come from?
Behold, this evil is of the Lord. 2 Kings 6:33
As I pointed out in my last post, evil spirits (according to the Bible, anyway) usually come from God (not Satan).
But what about evil itself? Where does it come from?
Here is the Bible's answer.
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7
The Bible tells us that God is the proud creator of everything evil. So whenever and wherever you find evil, you can be sure that God is its source.
Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? Amos 3:6
Posted by Steve Wells at 12/18/2006 10:05:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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28 comments:
Jason said...
For anything to exist, God must be at the source. Nothing can exist if He didn't create it. To say that God is the proud creator of evil as a means to make a point without also admitting He's the proud creator of everything good seems a bit skewed.
But being the creator of something doesn't mean every occurance of the created is the fault of the creator. For example, in Genesis 6:5, we're told that God saw that the hearts of man was only "evil continually". The Flood was a means to purge this evil. And then for the sake of Noah, He says in Genesis 8:21 that He knows the "imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth,,," Who's fault is it that man is evil? No one but man himself.
Paul speaks about this problem in Romans 7. The sin that proceeds out of his body is never once blamed on the Creator but instead on his own nature. Ths speaks volumes when we consider how evil spreads and multiplies:
Romans 7:2121 "...when I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God–through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin..."
It's difficult to argue Scripture. God is certainly the creator of evil but God is not the one at fault for the evil proceeding out of man's hearts and minds.
Ecc 7:14 "When times are good, be happy; but when times are bad, consider: God has made the one as well as the other..."
Tue Dec 19, 06:03:00 AM 2006
Umaga said...
interesting blog. I'll definitely visit again...
Tue Dec 19, 02:24:00 PM 2006
jake3988 said...
"But being the creator of something doesn't mean every occurance of the created is the fault of the creator"
True. But it IS the fault of God.
Why? Because according to Christians their god is omnipotent. Therefore, he KNEW what would happen before he made it.
Either he's not omnipotent or he's responsible for all the evil of mankind.
He could have simply created an evilless povertyless world. But did he? Nope. All his fault.
Wed Dec 27, 08:22:00 AM 2006
Jason said...
This is a classic misunderstanding of an all-knowing God. Just because God KNOWS something is going to happen doesn't mean He's the CAUSE of it. The two are vastly different. Genesis 8 and Romans 7 say as much.
If you KNOW your child is going to one day put his hand on the stove, when that time finally comes, you're not the one who CAUSED him to do it. This is all about freewill and accepting personal responsibility, something no one wants to do today (hence the creation of the devil).
God created evil but He's not the one who MAKES people do evil things. He absolutely could have created a perfect world with no chance of poverty, sickness, etc. but if He had done so, people would have no use for a God or for salvation.
It all comes back to figuring out who is truly at fault for the evil in the world: God or man. If God is to blame than we're all robots because we have no freewill. If you think man is to blame, then you're saying we have the freewill to do either good or bad and that the decision rests with us.
Thu Dec 28, 12:11:00 PM 2006
jake3988 said...
"If you KNOW your child is going to one day put his hand on the stove, when that time finally comes, you're not the one who CAUSED him to do it."
If I knew my child was going to burn his hand off, I'd do the smart thing and you know, STOP it?
Come on.
God is an all-powerful god at least, according to Christians. So, even if he didn't cause evil (Even though it says right there crystal clear he DID) he has the ABILITY to vanquish it. He has the ability to end poverty, the ability to vanquish evil, the ability to just accept everyone.
And yet... he chooses not to accept these things.
The whole hell argument is stupid.
Imagine Nebukenezzar(sp?) the king burning people alive in a fire.
Now suppose that King Neb told everyone they can avoid being thrown in a fire if they bow down and worship him.
Do we jump up and down and claim what an awesome guy King Neb is for preventing us from being burned in the fire for worshiping him? I'd surely hope not.
Neither should God.
Wed Jan 03, 08:24:00 PM 2007
jake3988 said...
"God created evil but He's not the one who MAKES people do evil things. He absolutely could have created a perfect world with no chance of poverty, sickness, etc. but if He had done so, people would have no use for a God or for salvation."
So being a screwed up demented jealous maniac makes you a GOOD person? When did that start happening?
Jealousy and Greed are both deadly sins for a reason. they're not a good traits to have.
God: "I could create a world free of poverty, free of sin, free of evil. But... no one would worship me or need me. So to fulfill my narcissistic self-loathing ways I'll create a world where hundreds of thousands of people die of starvation everyday. Then people will need me!"
Wed Jan 03, 08:29:00 PM 2007
Jason said...
You missed the point of my analogy. God knowing that something is going to happen doesn’t mean He’s the one causing it to happen. Us knowing something is going to happen to our child doesn’t mean we’re the cause of the accident.
Absolutely God could end poverty, etc. But once again, these things are caused by mankind. Mankind takes responsibility for the things he does. A company pumps tons of toxic chemicals into the environment. The ozone layer is affected and global warming ensues. Who’s fault is this: God or man? You decide to cheat on your wife. She finds out and leaves you, taking your kids and house. Who's fault: Yours or God? A government of an African country demolishes low-cost housing for the homeless, leaving them with no where to go. Who's fault: Government or God?
Your sense of “fairness” is rather skewed. Who forced Adam and Eve to sin? God? No. Adam and Eve had absolute freewill to do what they wanted. They CHOSE to disobey God. Punishment ensued. Tell me, do you think there’s any reason why poverty still exists in the world today? The US military budget for 2007 is $470 billion. The world’s military expenditures in 2006 were just under $1 trillion. Imagine what a fraction of this could do for the homeless situation in North America alone. Corrupt governments, power-hungry warlords, arms dealers, the ignorant and greedy general public, the list goes on and on and on. We’ve created our own problems in this world and even though we have the ability to correct our errors, we don’t and instead blame God for allowing us to continue to do these bad things. This isn’t just flawed logic, it’s a spoiled child mentality. I made a mistake but it’s your fault. How sad.
God accepts those who accept Him. We all have the power and freewill to do so but most choose not to. What then does God “owe” those people who deny His existence?
Why is the hell argument stupid? Provide verses showing where God sent people to hell or promises to send people to hell for not worshiping Him. Back your opinion up with something tangible.
Scripture makes it abundantly clear that the ‘punishment’ of the wicked is to die, never to be resurrected. This is the natural extension of “dust to dust” in Genesis 2:7. Life and death are simplistically laid out in Genesis. Does God include eternal suffering as a punishment for the wicked?
Fri Jan 05, 07:43:00 AM 2007
jake3988 said...
Your sense of “fairness” is rather skewed. Who forced Adam and Eve to sin? God? No. Adam and Eve had absolute freewill to do what they wanted. They CHOSE to disobey God. Punishment ensued.
If you're telling me that punishing all of mankind for picking an apple is justified, you need to seriously visit a mental institution.
You also just said that poverty is perfectly within the realm of possibility for god to cure. He doesn't.
Let's say there's a crime going to happen. I know about this crime and I choose to let it happen because I'm too lazy to stop it. In the United States this is a CRIME in and of itself.
This is no different with an all-powerful (as you say) god. He has the POWER to end poverty or hell, he HAD the power to create a world justifiably that never had poverty and never would have poverty. He chooses to sit back and do nothing. Therefore, he is responsible.
'Provide verses showing where God sent people to hell or promises to send people to hell for not worshiping Him'
HAHAHAHAHA. You need to open a bible my friend. Please. For the love of god, open a bible. Everyone who believes in him and worships goes to heaven. Everyone who doesn't, goes to hell. Hell, you said it yourself.
But that doesn't refute my argument either. You just detour into something else entirely.
Fri Jan 12, 08:21:00 PM 2007
Jason said...
First of all, how do you know it was an apple?
Second of all, it doesn’t matter if we think the punishment fits the crime. The simple fact of the matter is that Adam & Eve broke a direct commandment from God. Cause and effect, my friend.
You think God is responsible for the evil out there only because you don’t want to take responsibility for your own actions. Why do you think the devil was conjured up in the first place? People wanted a scapegoat for all the bad things in their life instead of taking responsibility themselves.
What is it we are really doing when we require God to remove suffering? Are we not asking that God should (a) suspend natural law, (b) divert the consequences of heredity, and (c) turn aside the effects of man's inhumanity to man? Have we the right to expect God to save men from the consequences of human acts? Would it be a moral universe if He did? How would you expect people to learn from the consequence of their actions if they were never permitted to fulfill the action? Underlying all the loose thinking on this subject is one basic assumption: suffering is evil in itself. It is this belief that suffering is the essential evil that lies at the root of Buddhism. The Bible view is radically different: suffering is not evil in itself, but a symptom of a deeper evil. Scripture portrays suffering as a consequence of sin: not necessarily the sin of the individual who suffers, but sin in the history of man and in human society. Whether or not we think this is “fair” is of no consequence. It is what it is. Whether God could have created another world where we were all robots who did nothing but good and nice things is also of no consequence. This is the world He’s created, this is the world we live in, and that’s about all there is to it.
I wonder, at what level do you actually blame mankind for bad stuff? Petty theft? Lying? Cheating? Speeding? Tax evasion? Maybe it’s only those big issues beyond your control (the which you aren’t doing anything to help stop) where you consider it’s God’s fault. When you do something wrong, do you blame God for not stopping you? When you do something good, who do you thank, yourself or God? If you were on the stand in a court of law for murdering someone, I wonder if the “God allowed me to do it” defense would hold up…?
I need to open a Bible? Okay. Hold on a sec……okay…done. Now, provide verses showing where God sent people to hell or promises to send people to hell for not worshiping Him. You give me verses, I’ll follow along. Everyone who believes in God goes to heaven? Hm, well, the Bible I’ve just opened says that no man has ascended to heaven (John 3:13) and no one has seen God (John 1:18) and no one has immortality except God, and then there all the dust to dust verses (Gen 2:7), the single judgment verses (Acts 17:31) and the dozens of “good” people who simply died at the end of their life instead of heading up to heavenly bliss (Acts 2:34). So...maybe we’re reading from different Bibles…? This damn confusing Bible!!!
And what argument wasn’t refuted? I’m don’t mean to detour so just repost your point.
Sat Jan 13, 11:28:00 AM 2007
Jason said...
You've detoured into silence :)
Sat Jan 20, 09:11:00 AM 2007
Anonymous said...
Jason:
It was fruit. When God created mankind he made mankind innocent and unknowing of evil. Mankind, although innocent and without evil, still committed an evil act. That alone is absurd.
If you are not evil, and you have know knowledge of good and evil, how can you do something evil?
But let's not stop here. there's much more we can cover on this subject.
After his innocent subjects eat from the fruit he curses them and the rest of mankind to suffer.
You say mankind brought this on themselves because God layed the ground rules and adam and eve broke them.
God didn't tell them they'd suffer, he just said they'd die. They didn't die, they survived. That alone doesnt sit well with me, never did. I was in denial when I was a "christian" though (much like you)
Anywho, the punishment was far worse then just "death" alone, and the snake tricked eve. God allowed a snake to trick Eve into eating the fruit. The snake was way smarter than eve, and eve being an innocent, curious, and niave creature committed a crime without even knowing right from wrong.
Get a couple of innocent naive humans, and tell them not to eat fruit from a tree, then mix in a snake with much more knowledge, extremely cunning and you can put the two and two together. You don't have to be ALL-KNOWING to see what's going to happen: Of course they'll eat the fruit!
Condemn everyone and offer salvation thousands of years later after causing much death and destruction. Say you're coming back "soon" or "quickly" (greek word says both) and not arrive for 2,000 years.. what the fuck do you expect?
This is rediculious, you are rediculious, and I dont hate you but I hate your sins against humanity. Your sin is that you choose to blindly believe in something without any validation, without any reason, and because your mommy and daddy told you to do so. People like you do not think for themselves and are not instructed to either (keep your thoughts captive, remember?)
You're not alone Jason, you have muslims and jews who can be equally if not even more fanatical about their own teachings. You could debate with them till the cows come home as well. All the while choosing to believe your doctrine because you were TOLD TO DO SO.. Congratulations...
Fri Jan 26, 09:37:00 AM 2007
Jason said...
That’s right, it was a fruit. Not an apple. This is the difference between reading the Bible for yourself vs. regurgitating public opinion.
Adam & Eve died. The length of time this took to happen is of no consequence. The punishment was fulfilled. You're looking for an argument that doesn't exist.
Explain how A & E’s punishment and suffering is worse then death. Working to get food out of the ground is worse then death?
Here’s this “God allowed” thing again… Maybe God should have stuffed cotton into Eve’s ears so she wouldn’t have to hear the snake. Maybe God shouldn’t have created women. Maybe God shouldn’t have created snakes. Maybe God should have avoided the whole situation by actually creating nothing at all. It’s not an argument that works with me. What’s done is done. Mankind takes full responsibility for breaking God’s commandments.
The snake was “way smarter” then Eve? In my Bible, it says the snake was more “subtle” (or ‘crafty’). What does yours say? I can’t find that “the snake was more knowledgeable then humans” bit… Creepy guys in cars offering candy to little kids are crafty people but the little kids also know that their parents warned them not to take the candy or there’ll be trouble. A child knows the difference between right and wrong but a child isn’t cursed with the awareness/knowledge that his nature and desires are often in conflict with his parent’s/God’s will. Consider also nakedness, something that holds no relevance or meaning to a child. But with age and understanding, nakedness takes on a whole new meaning. Adam & Eve’s transition from “child” to “adult” is clearly shown in Genesis.
You’ll be relieved to know that salvation was offered long before Jesus. Abraham, Moses, David, the list is a long one. With this in mind, what I think is ridiculous is you claim to know enough about the Bible to prove it wrong and yet you make statements suggesting quite the opposite is true. No references, no facts to back up your points, just the same old angry atheist rhetoric directed at someone who for some reason threatens his sense of security. Whatever I want to believe shouldn’t cause you grief. I’m entitled to defend my faith, you’re entitled to defend your lack of the same. It’s all good.
And if you want to discuss doctrine, I’d be more then happy to do so. The Bible does a great job of explaining itself. I’ll give you verses, offer my understanding of them in relation to other verses, you can read them and figure it out for yourself, and then come to same conclusions I have (even without mommy and daddy holding your hand!!).
“Sins against humanity”? Such drama ☺
Tue Jan 30, 07:05:00 AM 2007
rufusdire said...
Hi Jason,
I've just stumbled upon these boards, I hope you're still reading. I promise I won't insult, attack or engage in any internet drama. I'd like to pose a question to you, and of course anybody else reading along. There's been alot of talk about good and evil, right and wrong, sin and salvation, etc. So here's my question:
Is morality (that which is good, right, un-sinful, etc.) defined exclusively by the will of God or does it have intrinsic value regardless of whether or not there even is a god? In other words, does God DECIDE what is good or does he simply KNOW what is good?
Sean
Mon Jun 11, 03:16:00 PM 2007
veildarknight said...
The old DCT test? I was wondering if perhaps this is a better question than "is God is the root of evil?" question. What I wonder is this.
P1.God is onipotent: all powerfull; Omnipresient: knows everything ever.
P2. God has a devine plan for the Universe and all things opperate occording to this devine plan. In the end god will bring heaven to earth, and some believe he will ressurrect all the loyal dead who didn't make it to heaven, and the rest will burn in a lake of fire for all eternity with the devil and other evils, and there will be happyness and life forever after.
P3. God gives man free will, as in the ability to chose good action or evil action.
Q1. If God knows whats going to happen when he puts his plans into motion, can man really have a free will? Arent the sinners destined to be sinners? So that basicly destroys the Idea that Adam or Eve or anyone else in the Bible sinned against God, because wasn't it all in the script in the first place? Or is God's Devine plan more like "Devine Guidlines of what I want, by God"?
Tue Aug 21, 06:54:00 PM 2007
xlapus said...
How would you expect people to learn from the consequence of their actions if they were never permitted to fulfill the action?
This has probably been gone over, but I wanted to post on it before I go to bed and I didn't have time to read the entire page.
Did it ever occur to anyone that Adam and Eve would have had no chances to learn cause and effect? They had no clue what disobeying god's commands would bring about. They COULDN'T have even know what death was, so god's warning that eating of the tree would surely cause death was an empty warning.
Fri Dec 28, 11:30:00 PM 2007
Jeff said...
I think your image of the Christian God is too small, and far too limiting. This is a very brief explanation, and so, it encourages your own thought, but I hope you choose to read and consider it, and challenge you to poke as many holes as possible in it. Filling these holes is what solidifies the truth.
First, the nature of good and evil as equals or adversaries in the universe seems skewed. If I choose to murder someone out of spite, or randomness, surly you would say I was evil. But I would not make this decision if I did not experience some good, though extremly perverse or 'unnatural', from this action. It could have given me a rush of adrenaline, or perhaps is somehow tied to my sexual nature. As sadistic as my motivations are, I am still seeking some form of good unto myself. No matter what we do, we cannot help ourselves from seeking good, or the concept of good, though our choices and the way we pursue this good is bad. If this is true, the universe is not a balance of good and evil surly, but truly depends on good, and evil is simply in existence. Good is absolutely dominant. Evil is more or less the improper pursuit of good. We cannot be purely evil, or even theorize about this, no matter how much evil we participate in, we must seek a form of good. This certainly defends the Christian view in that all things God created are good. Evil, therefore, cannot exist without good, but it is not good itself. Good can clearly exist without evil, and so, in this place, we have God. His existence is a good of purity which we can not even begin to comprehend as a mere flawed creation, we are given a taste, and we cannot digest it. Choice was the creation of God, choice created for relationship to exist, choice to create true love. I think that we are all in agreement that love in the emotional sense of the word and not the erotic sense, cannot be forced or taken or bought. Love, or at least as much of love as we can experience, can only be given, out of choice, and even as we experience it, we are confused by it. This was God's gift to man, and perhaps part of what is meant by 'he created us in his image', but this gift had a consequence, and that consequence was choice. You must choose love. And so in giving us this choice, that opened the door for choosing adversely. We introduced the adverse choice, our own evil nature, when we chose against God. He did not create evil, and by his very nature could not create evil. He created choice. And from choice came a contrast, a contrast which existed in creation before humans experienced it when Lucifer fell. I don't find these things simple to understand, and I think that we were barely given enough capacity to comprehend it, but it seems that evil was simply an opportunity cost, not a product that He has chosen to manufacture. If God thinks that this cost is worth its return on investment, and he certainly does if you read the Christian bible, then how much more interesting is it that evil, even in its purest form still desires good.
Thu Jan 03, 06:30:00 PM 2008
andrew said...
I just found this blog and I'm glad I did. I'm 2 years into my faith in Jesus Christ. And I have a hunger for the knowledge of God. It can be very hard to satisfy with all of the disinformation buzzing around. Jeff -I appreciate your last comment on evil. I just read "The Language of God", by the geneticist Frances Collins. If you have any other recommendations, please let me know.
Mon Mar 03, 07:48:00 PM 2008
Jeff said...
Andrew -- Not sure of how else to contact you so I will just append to this post. Its hard for me to recommend a specific book without knowing exactly what your current struggles or interests are, and I am certainly not a well read Christian scholar by any means. I have found, however, that there is a consistent trend amongst modern Christians; that most people have a fear of knowledge in the church. We have somehow come to feel that questioning, researching, or confirming our faith is unacceptable. Fortunately, the truth is the exact opposite! God desires us to seek Him with all our heart, soul and MIND. That said, I think that one of the most beneficial books for any Christian to read that drives this point home is "Love Your God With All Your Mind" by J.P. Moreland. If you have not read it, I would really encourage you to, regardless of where exactly you are in your faith. It has been a fundamental resource for me in building a faith that I can stand on, without fear of being questioned. Hope this turns out to be worthwhile for you! --Jeff
Mon Mar 10, 10:25:00 PM 2008
daniel said...
I have read this discussion very intimately, and i cannot but see the err in the arguments against Christianity...
If you are arguing against God, you cannot win. if you are going to even engage such an argument, you must realize that you acknowledge the claims of the opposition, thereby knowing that you are arguing against a being that has claimed to have all knowledge and power, and has decided to give you the ability to argue against him. Now keep in mind i said GOD, not man.
It is not my desire to create a hostile environment, i will not argue with anyone. i will however have a conversational study of theology and ones interaction with it.
I will simply offer up my sincere faith open to question and testing for all who desire to do such, it is not my intent to convert or argue, simply to have a civilized conversation.
with that being said, I must say that a true key point for the defense of Christianity and the account of Adam and Eve has not been fully explored, it is this:
"Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him." By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.We love because he first loved us.
1 John 4:15-19 ESV
There is a lot here so please allow me to break down my understanding of what this tells us.
It starts by simply telling us that If we "willfully" accept/confess that Jesus is the son of God, that we have a relationship between us.
It provides proof that Jesus role was to restore the ideal relationship between man and the Father, as well as provide an example of the conduct we can execute within a restored relationship with a Holy God
from there, we grow in our knowledge of his character, and that His character is loving, for he is Love.
Keep in mind that when someone or something is defined as something, they are by definition not the antonym...i.e. if something is good, by definition, it cannot be bad.
In the case of God, if we hold this to be true then we have much to gain, and be hopeful for. If God is Loving in his nature, then all of His conduct will be for the expansion of that love. (His conduct, not all of mankind's)
for a definition of love let us look to 1 Corinthians 13:4-7
Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
Ok...im expecting arguments from that one, but we will continue...
If love is all of these things, and God is love, then surely God is all of these things...
It seems to me that the character of this God is something that I would personally want to interact with
so the key point in which i wanted to explain is this, God loves, he loves so much that he offers people a choice. He is sensitive to the fact that he is God, and we are not. Which is why we must not force our beliefs upon anyone, but let them come to the conclusions they will, and love them regardless with the same characteristics as the God in which we believe whose image we were created
but back to having a choice, can you really love someone selflessly if you do not give them a choice. understanding that they are fully aware of the consequences be they positive or negative.
Let us propose that one was to have 15 children, and they knew that the first 14 would hate them, curse their name and for all intensive purposes make their life unpleasant, but the 15th child, would love you, would honor you, and would live to have a beautiful relationship with you, the rule is that you could not get to the last unless you genuinely loved the first 14 with all that you are. Would it be an honorable thing for this one to endure the first 14 children in order to have the joy of the last, or would this one be better off not having children in the first place, and take away the children's choice to love and honor them, never giving them life, and never providing them with the option to choose how they would conduct themselves?
however you agree or find fault with this analogy is fine by me, but the point im tying to make is this, that we must always recognize the choices and opportunity we have, as well as the authority we have to conduct ourselves in either a positive or negative light.
Wed Jul 30, 10:10:00 PM 2008
Jake Kühler said...
Good grief,
God gave man free will, People are man in the image and likeness of God, but people are not perfect. We do stupid stuff. Also, evil is the absence of good. Think on that a bit then shoot me a reply.
Jake
Wed Mar 18, 03:19:00 PM 2009
paulat33 said...
Amos 9:4 And though they go into captivity before their enemies, thence will I command the sword, and it shall slay them: and I will set mine eyes upon them for evil, and not for good.
Mon Jul 27, 05:56:00 AM 2009
barry said...
Before the beginning there was a Cause. The only purpose of the cause was to create an effect.
In the beginning was a decision and the decision was to BE.
The first act odf beingness is to assume a point of view.
Presto ..now we have I AM and an infinite number of points of view (me's)
So you see how the purpose of I Am (GOD) has been carried out.
End of story
Tue Dec 15, 09:18:00 AM 2009
Joni said...
All of you speak as if there was a God. Where is this God of yours hiding?
Mon Jan 18, 07:30:00 AM 2010
Mike said...
Joni, Where have you looked?
I only say that because in order to say that he is hiding and doesn't exist it means that someone has looked everywhere possible in the universe to find him.
For example, I could make the statement that there are no spiders in this room. Unfortunately I have not crawled under everything and into all the cracks and crevices. Now i can with all assurity say that there are not any Gigantic spiders in the room. However, as I recall the universe is a pretty big place. Wether or not there are any spiders out there is something I haven't found out about currently.
On a side note, death does not only represent physical death you guys should understand.
I have come to the conclusion that if I have engaged in a relationship with another person i have effectively told that person everything that they need to do in order to maintain that status of love and appreciation with me for all intensive matters or at least for the point of this discussion. As if someone is in love with someone else they don't intentionally sabotage that, unfortunately this isn't a perfect world and our own comfort points typically interfere with this utopian ideology.
That person will break my heart I can say with all assurity even though I have never wanted them to do so. So i'll make a robot, or i'll get a dog. I believe that telling the dog everything that it has to do in order not to upset me will work right? Well chances are that isn't gonna happen either, the robot probably will, if it was programmed correctly and has no mechanical defects. I still know, that even though the dog has driven me (me = imperfect, please remember) to the point of wanting to get rid of it especially when i step in a big mess before i've had coffee in the morning, I will be much happier to see the dog looking at me in adoration with tail wagging frantically as I pet it than a similar case with the robot.
Fri Mar 30, 09:14:00 PM 2012
Mike said...
Oh a great book to read would be new evidence that demands a verdict by Josh Mcdowell. It's more of a reference book, not necessarily a good sit down and try to read through in a day.
Fri Mar 30, 09:16:00 PM 2012
isaac said...
Hello folks. My comment is in regard to the original post quoting from kings. The KJV was translated from minimal manuscripts and was done 400 years ago. It is not the best translation for the use of "evil" in many OT references. The accurate translation in many cases and in this case is "calamity". Which is to say god brings judgement upon folks. Philosophically you will have to study various ideas about whether god had to have created evil or just it's potential and so on. But regarding the scriptures there are no verses that say god created moral evil as the KJV seemed to suggest. Many blessings.
Fri Apr 13, 01:14:00 PM 2012
dcSaint said...
God has created a world without sin.
Read the last chapters of the Revelation.
He is testing our hearts now to see if we are suitable to dwell there. We all fail the test so He provided a way through His Holy Son Jesus for us to receivec His Holy nature and have our sinful nature removed.
We have to confess our sins (Agree with His Judgment) and receive His Mercy and Grace.
Then we are ready to come into the Father's House New Heaven and Earth)
I hope I see you there - God Bless You
Sun Dec 16, 08:40:00 AM 2012
Donald Baker said...
Let's also remember that God isn't under the same law as we are. If a parent tells their child not to cross the street but the parent crosses the street to get the mail, the child can't point it's finger at the parent and call them unjust, because that parent is not under the same law as the child.
Let's also remember that what is evil from our perspective is not evil by God solely because of His purpose behind it. Examples of this are Joseph being sold into the slavery. Evil from the brothers but righteous from God. Everything that God does is for His purpose, and if God chooses to use evil for His purpose, man (being the child) cannot point to the Creator and call Him unjust. I'm thankful for the evil that was done to Jesus on the cross because it saved my soul from my own sin.
If you're calling God evil and putting "fault" on Him, you need to consider your own salvation. And for those who may be reading this and are born again, trusting in God's righteousness and believing that He has a purpose in everything He does will take loads off your mind when you believe that all things work for your good.
I find much more comfort in believing that God can use Satan for His own purpose rather than letting Satan win some and work around it.
Mon Feb 18, 06:57:00 AM 2013
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05 December 2006Where do evil spirits come from?
Seems like silly question, doesn't it? At least it would to most Bible believers. Evil spirits come from Satan. But that's not what the Bible says.
The phrase "evil spirit(s)" occurs 14 times (in 13 verses) in the Bible, in 8 of which the evil spirits were sent directly and explicitly by God.
The first evil spirit was sent by God to kill people in war.
Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech. Judges 9:23
God sent the next evil spirit to cause Saul to have a mental breakdown. (But luckily, David plays his harp and makes Saul's "evil spirit from the Lord" go away.)
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well. 1 Samuel 16:14-16
And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him. 1 Samuel 16:23
Then God sent an evil spirit to cause Saul to prophesy and sit with a javelin in his hand.
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand. 1 Samuel 18:10
And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand. 1 Samuel 19:9
The other 6 "evil spirit" occurrences are in the New Testament. The Bible doesn't say where the evil spirits came from, but they are usually associated with some type of illness (Which come from God, right?).
And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight. Luke 7:21
And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, Luke 8:2
So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them. Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. ... And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. Acts 19:12-16
So the Bible is fairly clear on evil spirits: they are either sent directly by God or their origin is unknown. The Bible never attributes evil spirits to Satan.
(Thanks to Sternwallow at the Raving Atheists Forum for this one.)
Posted by Steve Wells at 12/05/2006 10:13:00 AM Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
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22 comments:
JudahGabriel said...
Yes, Scripture appears consistent again, as you mention. If God created all, then God created both good and evil.
Tue Dec 05, 12:21:00 PM 2006
Kilgore Trout said...
hehehe awsome, I just challenged my uber-conservative buddy to a book club style read and review of the bible. he thinks that the bible is the only truth, but admits hes never read it. its little gems like this that should keep this ammusing. Ive read bits of it but not much. Im a very liberal atheist so we have interesting conversations to say the least. We've known each other since first grade so we can really get under each others skin and let things slip that might normally get you punched by a theist and clink beers together and were cool again.
anyway thanks this was a good post and im about to read why god hates christmas trees which promises to lend me another smile.
Wed Dec 06, 01:38:00 PM 2006
tiny tim said...
There are many, many branches of Christianity who don't believe in the devil or satan or evil spirits as little ghost things that fly around and infect people with badness.
Your points are good. And along with juda's point, yes, it's abundantly clear that evil is often sent by God since God made good and evil. There isn't too much else you can take from Isaiah 45:7. In those instances where God isn't the one bringing evil, it's always the individual who is to blame (not some supernatural ethereal force).
Thu Dec 07, 04:37:00 PM 2006
jake3988 said...
JudahGabriel said...
Yes, Scripture appears consistent again, as you mention. If God created all, then God created both good and evil.
Yup. God allows extreme poverty to occur, ravaging diseases like AIDS and ebola in Africa, murderers, etc.
If he 'designs everyone from before they were born' as most christians say, he is thus directly responsible for every murderer on the planet.
He is responsible for designing kids to grow up orphans, in extreme povery, die of cancer. He is responible for all of it.
This is why, from a philosophical standpoint, God cannot exist. That doesn't even take into account his homocidal maniac ways in the old testament.
Fri Dec 08, 09:05:00 PM 2006
Anonymous said...
who said God can't destroy people any way he pleases??? Everyone is doomed to hell anyway.
Sat Dec 09, 05:38:00 PM 2006
Jason said...
How can you blame God when the cause of most ofof the things you mentioned is mankind? If a man and a woman have unprotected sex and their child is born with AIDs, is this not the parents' fault? If millions of people are dying from hunger every year, why are you blaming God when 99% of the world's population has never lifted a finger to help? If a man kills another man in rage, where's the logic in blaming anyone other then the man who committed the act?
You imply that suffering in human life is inconsistent either with the power or with the love of God: that as a God of love either He has not the power to prevent the suffering, or if He has the power then He has not the will, and is not a God of love. It is assumed that the prevention of suffering as it now affects the apparently innocent is something we should expect from a God of love who is also Almighty. Are these assumptions really justified?
It must be asked: What is it we are really doing when we demand that God remove suffering? Are we not asking that God should (a) suspend natural law, (b) divert the consequences of heredity, and (c) turn aside the effects of man's inhumanity to man? Have we the right to expect God to save men from the consequences of human acts?
These questions can only be asked of situations when the hand of man is involved. Earthquakes, tempests, famines and floods are called 'acts of God' because usually there is no other explanation for their occurrence. So if we look beyond human acts to natural disaster, we find that it falls upon all, innocent and guilty alike. As soon as we begin to question the suffering of innocent victims of these disasters another dilemma is raised. Are we saying that the calamities should be selective in their working, searching out only those who deserve to suffer'?
Underlying all the loose thinking on the subject is one basic assumption: it is that suffering is evil in itself. The Bible view is radically different: suffering is not evil in itself, but a symptom of a deeper evil. The Scriptures portray suffering as a consequence of sin: not necessarily the sin of the individual who suffers, but sin in the history of man and in human society
Sun Dec 10, 06:20:00 PM 2006
jake3988 said...
No no no no no.
Look. God could have created the world so that poverty,disease, etc would not have existed. He chose to create a world where it does not exist.
Thus he is NOT benevolent.
If God created us from the womb, he designed murders and purposefully designed people to go to hell.
Thus he is NOT benevolent. (And from that we have no freewill)
God created a hell and sends 90% of the world's population there when he could accept everyone.
Thus he is NOT benevolent.
Can I make it any more clear?
Tue Dec 12, 01:23:00 PM 2006
jason said...
In other words, you would have been much happier if an all loving God had created a world that was free of suffering and disease and pain and death and where its inhabitants had no need for a supreme deity or salvation?
God created us yes, but Scripture is abundantly clear that responsibility rests with the individual. Deut 30:19 "...I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life." The decisions we make are ours and ours alone. Deut 30:19 is the logical, opposing viewpoint to your statement that we possess no freewill. One of you is wrong.
We aren't robots. Everyone has freewill. Look around, how much of the evil in your life is caused by man? Murder, famine, war, disease, they all stem from sinful man choosing not to follow God. Is this not the fundamental teaching laid out in Genesis with Adam and Eve? Did God force Adam to sin? Absolutely not.
One more thing: where in the Bible are we told God sends people to hell? If you found out hell didn't exist, would you look at things differently...?
Tue Dec 12, 08:13:00 PM 2006
Judah Himango said...
I have to agree with Jason: humanity got itself into this mess of sickness and poverty by rejecting God in the first place. Now we're blaming God and questioning his existence because evil exists in the world.
I found this 20 year old BBC article pertinent to the topic here. It talks about the discovery of a virus Jake mentioned in passing, asking how God could allow such a thing. The article, in retrospect, shows how humans have allowed sickness and disease through living outside the way God outlined humanity to live. Purely a natural thing too -- it's not as if God miraculously and supernaturally intervened, but rather, setup a perfectly self-sustained cause-and-effect relationship of living a life opposing the way God outlined.
I also find it telling that nearly every anti-theist I've talked to or known of is almost entirely consumed with hatred and mocking. I suppose one has to be hateful if one's entire purpose in life is to disprove the existence of a loving God.
Mon Dec 18, 01:57:00 PM 2006
Anonymous said...
ahhhh it's like AIDS was created by Dog to infect monkeys alone, but it was man's sinful cross-species sex with monkeys what made AIDS infectious to humankind.
Thu Dec 28, 09:04:00 AM 2006
Berend de Boer said...
Please remove previous comment, bad link.
But see on where evil spirits came from.
Sun Jan 28, 02:41:00 PM 2007
nazani said...
"The Scriptures portray suffering as a consequence of sin: not necessarily the sin of the individual who suffers, but sin in the history of man and in human society "
And therefore, why should we raise a finger to help any suffering child, since they are simply paying the sin debt of their parents/culture/humanity in general? Suffering was God's plan for them; we shouldn't interfere.
"humans have allowed sickness and disease through living outside the way God outlined humanity to live."
Whoa, Mary Baker Eddy in da house!
"Murder, famine, war, disease, they all stem from sinful man choosing not to follow God."
Wrong, a whole lot of war, etc. was/is at the express command of God. You obviously have never read the Bible.
Sat Dec 18, 08:01:00 AM 2010
djl said...
Listen Judah, there is no questioning gods existence here because the maniac DOESNT exist! I was raised catholic and am now an athiest. since my conversion i have no desire to hurt or kill anyone. actally I feel more caring towards my fellow man since I no longer need to prove how catholicism is superior to all other religions and i can accept people for who they are. And how in the hell can you call him a loving god? this freak couldnt care less about you! He sits back and watches innocent children die horrible deaths from starvation, disease, war, etc... loving my ass! This loving being can take his shit somewhere else. So if you ever have a loved one dying a painful death, and i hope it never happens, make sure you pray good and hard and see what happens. God will probably be sitting up in heaven laughing at you because he has another soul to send to hell. Open your minds people! Im not ashamed to be an atheist, im proud of it.
Sat Feb 12, 08:59:00 PM 2011
Vivyan's Man said...
God does exist; I died and had an out of body experience but I believe God pushed me with immense force back into my body and held me there until I breathed again, which is why I'm still here today. Less than one week after that, someone came to me and spoke in my ear; it woke me up and in full consciousness the voice whispered and was clearly audible saying "One day I will need you, the promises of love..." I think he was just letting me know that it wasn't my time to go yet.
As for the bad things that happen in the world, it's the result of sin. If everyone did what is right, then even when bad things happen, we'll consider it a blessing.
Now, I wrote something with regard to bad spirits...
If you ever wonder why there are bad spirits around and by why I mean what their purpose is, they are there to spew lies into our hearts and minds in an attempt to influence and direct our paths to walks of unholiness; ultimately to separate us from God!
Jesus called the devil the father of all lies and by this, I believe he is indicating the devils greatest strength. If you think about it, there is nothing he can do to us but lie. Though his deceit can cause a great deal of confusion and hindrance in our walk with God, we must keep watch, as Lord Jesus said and we keep watch by identifying the lie and resisting the devil.
The lie could be something so simple. It could be your own voice in your own mind, saying things that are completely out of your character. It can be so subtle that even followers of Christ may not recognize the influence.
If I may, I will even go as far as to say that the influence of the devil can effect those around us, to cause a stumbling in our lives. Without realizing, our own loved ones may be subject to random thoughts and questions that can result in chaos in our lives (sparking arguments). You may be trying to get right with God and the devil may not see a way into your heart and so it is very possible that he will enter through someone close to you or even strangers and they may innocently and under the devils influence cause situations to come up and induce stress, anxiety, fear, anger and any of the sort to break down the very walls we build to keep him out. Once those walls are down again, he can begin to influence our hearts and minds once more.
Therefore, we must keep watch. Listen to your thoughts and understand that when unclean thoughts enter, then you must pray, read and focus with all your heart on God's love and mercy through our Lord Jesus Christ. A-men.
Fri Jul 29, 09:05:00 AM 2011
tozierpatriot said...
Vivyan, The bible says that God deceives; so then we cannot know if it is God or satan that is speaking to us, or leading us into "sin". It is also important to note that God causes us to suffer for the sins of others- that is the whole concept of sin anyways, that God punishes us all for the sin of Adam. As Nazani said, God intended for one to suffer so who are we to intervene? So, suffering is not evil, it is God's way. The point of the article was to show that this God not only causes suffering, but that he purposely withholds good from whomever he chooses and there is no recourse for us. Either we are chosen or we are damned, the choice was made before we even existed.
Wed May 02, 12:58:00 PM 2012
the static fanatic said...
Epicurus spelled it out for us thousands of years ago with his Trilemma concerning God:
1. if God is unable to prevent evil, he is not omnipotent
2. if God is not willing to prevent evil, he is not good
3. if God is willing and able to prevent evil, then why is there evil?
Thu Aug 30, 06:44:00 PM 2012
fouachaud said...
What can be said about "the idiom of permission"?
Mon Dec 24, 07:24:00 AM 2012
edensgardener said...
Kids, Kids!!
We digress. The topic, I remind you, is "Where do evil spirits come from?”
Here is the Biblical reference to what may be the sum explanation of the origin of evil spirits in the Earth, if one acknowledges that evil spirits are angels who left their first estate by following Lucifer, and paid the price for it.
"And another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.4And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven, and threw them to the earth . . . " (Rev. 12:3-4).
"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him," (Rev. 12:9).
It is also interesting to note that although this reference is in Revelation, the last book of the NT/Bible, the chronology of the event seems to predate the creation account in Genesis, since the influence of the devil-as-serpent was in the earth by that time.
Thu Feb 28, 07:21:00 AM 2013
Benny Hauk said...
God sent an evil spirit in the same sense that He sent evil armies to capture His chosen people (Israelites) on occasion. He occasionally uses evil to punish evil. He is, however, not the author of evil (Genesis 1:31, John 1:13, 1 John 1:5, 1 Corinthians 14:33).
As far as God being benevolent, that sounds like a strawman argument. Believers should never claim the universality of God's "benevolence" (aka, being kindly or charitable) because that's indeed not biblically accurate anyway. God is, however, universally "good". In that I mean he is always either just (in the final analysis people receive what they deserve) or gracious (people are shown favor they don't deserve). However God is never unjust. If someone sees God as not benevolent then the "fault" as it were lies with the person, not with God. God may be acting toward many different ends (refining the person through fire and punishing or judging the person's evil deeds or thoughts, are just two such examples).
Whether you believe you or people in general are good and God if exists is evil or whether you think it is mankind who chooses evil and God who's inherently good is a if not the fundamental question at the heart of whether you are a believer or not. Your posture to that question determines your trust in God (your faith) and not the other way around.
I'll just add one other thought: the fact that we can be agents of evil doesn't make God (who created us capable of being agents of evil) held morally responsible for our evil any more than it implies we were created "flawed". Our ability to chose to rebel against God, displeasing Him at every corner, doesn't mean we're flawed rather it merely gives evidence to the fact that we were created with the ability to love. Robots don't love because they simply do the only thing they are capable of (namely to obey their creator; their programming). The fact that we can disobey and create evil is only evidence that God desired to create us with the ability to love Him. Love that is forced or coerced simply isn't love. To love means to have the ability to not love. To always have a perfect world means no one has the ability to choose evil. I think there will be a perfect world one day and all wrongs will be made right but we're not there yet. The decision is ours to choose. Not whether to be good or to be bad but merely whether to have faith that God is good or to not have that faith. As for evidence of His goodness, well that's where we find the object of that faith: the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth (or as we Christians refer to him: Emmanuel: God with us). Properly understood, He is all the evidence we need. He's the smoking gun that points to the goodness of God.
Fri Aug 02, 03:42:00 AM 2013
Big Ray said...
The Apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 2:14-16 (KJV)
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."
Fri Sep 06, 04:59:00 AM 2013
James Heinz said...
Please forgive me for i feel i should be a voice of opposition. I am a firm believer in the book of enoch. A contraversial topic in itself. It is in my belief this book should have been in the bible and once upon a time it was. That being said in the book of Enoch fallen angels had sexual inconters with the woman of man kind and from there off spring the nephilim were born. When God flooded the Earth the nephilim being from a mortal mother and spiritual father both perished in the flood and spiritually as evil spirits continued to roam all the parts of Earth. So there for if Enochs words are correct God did not create evil spirits but instead came from the sin of the fallen angels
Thu Oct 31, 05:46:00 AM 2013
James Heinz said...
Oops that last part didnt make any sense. When the nephilim died from the flood there mortal bodies perished but they continued to remain on this Earth as evil spirits forever roaming the lands
Thu Oct 31, 05:54:00 AM 2013
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