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Coming out of the gay( and atheist) closet
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offlineKefka6
Coming out of the gay( and atheist) closet
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Dec 28 13 9:17 AM
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How funimage
So I was raised a jw, my entire extended family are all jw's and I think I'm the only one who actually plans to leave. Anyway I'm currently 20 yrs old and just waiting for the right moment to Dissasociate myself because I don't think I can take going to the meetings for long.
Anyway me wanting to leave the jw's started when I was 14 that's when I realized that I was more into guys than girls. This was actually really difficult I was so depressed I thought I had the bad luck to be the only gay jw out there.sometimes I'd think about dating girls but I couldn't live with myself knowing I was lying to them. So then the only choice was to be single and lonely for the rest of my life, but that wasn't going to happen. So at 15 I had the idea that I was going to leave.
Unfortunately I got baptized at 17 a few months after my grandpa died because of grief and the small hope that I might see him again. It wasn't till a few months after that I realized what a stupid mistake I made. Now if I left my family would have to shun me and I don't think I could deal with that especially since they won't approve of anyone I may want to date.
This was also the time that I started looking at other religions but none of them really satisfied me, they all seemed like mythology instead of the truth. Then I started looking up atheism and things that had to do with science and evolution and it made more sense than religion so it was there that I became an atheist
And it's really hard to be an atheist and still go to the meetings there are times where I just want to stand up and scream that they're wrong, whether they're saying that violent video games cause school shootings or when the brother on the platform gets condescending when topics that contradict the watchtower come up. It just baffles me that with all of the information out there that contradicts their beliefs almost none of the jw's. That I know question what is being thought I just don't get it anymore
There are small mercies though mom who I currently live with works on Sunday and since we only have one car I can miss that meeting every week with a good excuse.
So this is my condensed story I think I'll reveal more about myself the more I post here.
status offlineVancity
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Dec 28 13 2:26 PM
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Hey Kefka6,
Firstly, it's great that you've figured this much out at such a young age, it takes courage to not simply accept what you are told by authority figures and learn on your own. Secondly, I couldn't imagine going to meetings while knowing that religion is bullshit, that would be so frustrating it would make me sick. Most people cannot figure out what you have because they don't bother to do they kind of research you have, which in this time of the information age is really a shame. I firmly believe all religion will be a relic of the past in the not so distant future because, unlike past generations, information is so readily available to anyone who wants it.
Good luck in the next chapter of your life.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Dec 28 13 6:43 PM
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Kefka-
So good seeing you continue posting.
I'm not for supporting the gay/lesbion society that wants my money... I am however for not having the hate of old. I'm also out spoken for how religion protects Pedophiles. And the WTBTS does that too.
We have gay friends that are old...yes, they are old. One was broken in by his uncle at the age of 6...that's a pedophile. The other was engaged to be married the traditional way and finally decided that wasn't for him.
The one thing we can appreciate and after 20 years, love each other, they would never harm a child. We would trust those men around our grandchildren more then we would the religious idiots that hide their deed while preaching hatred towards those that live differently.
It's been an adventure learning from those that spoke out [JW's] and will always appreciate what they did for helping others.
Being gay and atheist, you have so much opportunity for educating others...don't piss away your youth. Love, Lin and John
status offlineKBG
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Dec 29 13 7:11 AM
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Kefka6,
I always admire people who know themselves. Its easy to get trapped in what you are expected to be, and not be who you are. Good for you. I know your road will not be easy, true integrity never is. Cultivate support networks outside of JWs. No man is an island.
status offlinetnt386
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Dec 29 13 4:34 PM
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Thanks for posting your story Kefka6. I am 19 and can relate to figuring out that the JW's are all blinded by false teachings of cult leaders. I figured it all out for myself when I was about 14-15. Although I cannot relate to the other parts of your story, just know that all of us are here for you and are ready to listen to whatever you wanna say! :)
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Hello again Kefka ...... and thanks for adding a little more about yourself.
Walking out of the closet is a wondrous and very courageous thing to do ... even if you've not told your family and others yet. It's great you've worked out how you really feel now ... rather than go along with what everyone else thinks is right for you ....... good for you mate!!! Stand tall ... be proud!
As for the meeting thing ... you will know when the time is right to leave. In the meantime ... to quell the sickness that surely must rise to your throat during those 'lovely' (said very firmly with tongue in cheek) meetings ........ take notes of the anomalies. If nothing else ... the writing of notes will stop you from being sick. Or falling asleep. Or both!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlinedivertido
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As one who left an extended family of JW's I believe understand your situation. Trust in yourself, trust is what you hold to be true. "Damn the torpedo's, full speed ahead" when they and others launch them at you. You are young, full of energy and can do it.
I was tossed out with half a weeks paycheck in 1970 and a couple of good friends where I could live for awhile. Taught me alot and made me stronger. Hopefully you can leave under better circumstances.
The world is a big beautiful place, go explore it and have fun learning from the good and the bad.
Hope you can click on my picture and read it, it is one of life's truths.
status offlineCacky
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Jan 18 14 7:20 AM
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Hello and welcome to the board. It's nice to meet you. I wish you well. You are young and have your whole life ahead of you. You'll make it!
status offlineSailAway
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Welcome Kefka, Tnt and Divertido! I look forward to getting to know each one of you! It is Awesome to see new ones on the forum.
Coming out of the JW closet, whether gay or atheist or neither, is a tremendous accomplishment! Celebrate your life of freedom from mind control!
What is needed for dramatic change is an accumulation of acts, adding, adding to, adding more, continuing. We know that it does not take everyone on Earth to bring justice and peace, but only a small, determined group who will not give up during the first, second, or hundredth gale.
One of the most calming and powerful actions you can do to intervene in a stormy world is to stand up and show your soul. Soul on deck shines like gold in dark times. The light of the soul throws sparks, can send up flares, builds signal fires, causes proper matters to catch fire. To display the lantern of soul in shadowy times like these – to be fierce and to show mercy toward others; both are acts of immense bravery and greatest necessity.
Struggling souls catch light from other souls who are fully lit and willing to show it. If you would help to calm the tumult, this is one of the strongest things you can do.
Excerpts from, You Were Made for This, by Clarissa Pinkola Estes, Ph.D
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Hi there Divertido .......................... I left home for similar reasons and didn't have much to go with either. It's makes us more resilient when we have to plan more carefully doesn't it!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Jan 30 14 8:45 PM
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I was tossed out for smoking and not going to meetings and mmmmm other things.
Best thing that happened to me.
Good luck
status offlinepunkofnice
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Good on ya Kefka for being honest with all...including yourself.
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
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I'm a Closet Atheist, but still an active JW
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status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Aug 11 13 9:50 PM
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TO20 wrote:
My issue is, my 2 closest friends are all JW's and it would really suck to lose them, one is an MS another will likely become and MS soon. I have friends outside the organization but none that I am as close to as my JW friends. My family are all JW's (although my parents are fairweather JW's I don't want to risk alienating them since I depend heavily on them while I'm in university). My sister knows I'm an atheist because she promised me she wouldn't tell anyone, and even she did, I could easily deny it.
My plan is to finally come out and tell everyone I'm an atheist once I reach financial independence and I move out of my parent's house, but that's years away from happening. And my JW friends are pushing me to be more spiritually involved which will take more time from my already loaded schedule, I just roll out with a different excuse everytime, they no I'm a study freak so I just use that excuse during the semester.
Hopefully this came out as coherently as possible, I had to proofread several times to make sure I was as clear as possible.
Hi there TO20 and welcome .......
I noticed that one of your issues is your jdub friends and that you don't want to lose them. Sadly it's quite common for our jdub friends to drop us like hot coals when they find out we're no longer as dedicated as they perhaps may be (or CLAIM to be in many cases) ..... but what you have to remember is that if this happens ... THEY are the ones shutting you out not the other way around. You are still the same you that you've always been ... minus a little more of the religious side of things as each day passes by ... but essentially you're still the same you.
If your jdub friends or family members for that matter .... decide that you're no longer worthy of associating with because you've come out as an atheist or that you're fading away slowly but surely ...... then THEY are the ones who are making the decision to walk away from you. Family will use emotional black far more effectively than friends (specially if they've been led to believe it will work) but TRUE friends won't shut you out just because you've had a change of religious status. If they do ... then they're not true friends.
If it means you have to bide your time until you're financially viable ... then do the bare minimum in order to keep everyone off your back or toss them an enigmatic "I have a few things to sort out with Jehovah ... I'll let you know if I need some help ...' and leave them to imagine what they will. It may buy you some valuable breathing space if nothing else. If you can't wait for however many years .. then start looking at alternatives. Part-time job/s ... shared housing ... grants or scholarships ... there'll be a way around this.
What you do with regards to the inevitable emotional blackmail and 'you're going to die' crap ... is entirely up to you. The world isn't ending any time soon. Our beloved Cee Cee was told that 60 odd years ago ... Sam, myself and a few others have been out for over 30 years or so ... and the world is STILL ticking along as it always has!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlinethehappygoat
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Aug 13 13 10:06 AM
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Welcome!
To add a little to what Rhonda/Andria said - my closest friends in the org. were the number one reason I stayed in as long as I did. I couldn't bear the thought of how they react if they heard I had quit. I would go down the list of them all in my mind and just cringe at what I knew would be their reactions. Plus, I really loved them and knew how much I would miss them.
Well, I lost all but one of them. I got a few emails and cards, all saying the same thing "Valerie, we love you. You are so important to us and we will always be here for you. Unless, of course, you stop serving Jehovah entirely."
Well, then, they weren't "always" there for me, were they? It took me a while to realize how conditional their friendships all were. But I mentioned I lost all but one of them. My oldest and dearest friend wrote to me "Valerie, I love you. You will always be my friend and nothing will come between us. Unless, of course, you turn into Jeffrey Dahmer and start eating people. Then I will still be your friend, but from a distance!" Dahmer was an infamous cannibalistic serial killer. Well, she stayed my friend because she herself left the org. and we have become closer than we ever were. She, and she alone, proved to be a true friend.
Yes, it was hard to lose the others. I missed them for a long time. But knowing now that our friendships ended simply because I could no longer worship the way they all thought I should has gone a long way in helping me get over them.
You have an awesome future and you will make many friends. It's hard to see the whole picture right now, but take it from someone who hung in there til I was 45, there is life after being a JW!
Valerie
status offlineThe Villain
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Sep 13 13 5:03 PM
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I too grew up a Witness. I too went to college for a science degreeand it slayed Jehovah outright for me.
Once you understand the building blocks of the universe are rooted in physics, chemistry and math, belief in a magic father figure who lives in the sky and peeks thru your roof with x ray vision so he can keep a tally of how many times you masterbate, belief in a god seams sort of retarded.
I lost everyone: my family, my friends, everything!
It hurts at first, but once youve been alone in the world for a few years, it gets easier.
I put myself thru school. It was hard, I worked alot, and when it was over my degree was mostly worthless, but at least I got out into the world and discovered what normalcy was.
Dont be scared dude. Leaving is the most rewarding thing, and the hardest thing you will ever have to do.
Its worth it.
All the tears, struggles and pain are 100% worth it.
Ill die with my eyes open, on my feet like a man.
V
status offlineTO20
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Sep 14 13 2:29 PM
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I have thought about my spirituality for 4 years now, at first i was trying to reject it, I was sacred. The thought of no god in my life helping me out was very scary at the time.
Last 2 years is when I came to accept the reality of the situation, I eventually realized it wasn't scary, but rather enlightening. It's nice re-evaluate my belief system and find out what I actually stand for and believe in.
But gradually I've come to accept it.
The only hard part is living this lie until I can live on my own, and admit my atheism to everyone. It's very annoying having to agree with my JW 'friends' and issues I couldn't be more against.
But until then, I'll just go through the motions when I'm at the meetings. And while I'm at it try and discreetly plant seeds in peoples heads.
I'm just happy I became enlightened early in my life, that my future hasn't been affected much. Although I wish I realized it earlier, as I would have probably taken and more science/engineering route in my post-secondary career if I did. Since in those 2 years I realized I am an atheist, I developed a huge interest in theoretical and quantum physics, but I don't have much time to dedicate to it.
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Sep 14 13 6:01 PM
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Hi TO20,
Welcome to the forum. I too am an atheist and like you attempted to live within the organization while being a closet atheist. When I fully accepted the theory of evolution in 2005, I did resign as an elder. In my letter I did express that I was having doubts about the existence of God and had a more favourable view of evolution than was taught in our publications. From that point forward I was able to hang on for another 2 years.
Eventually though the dichotomy between who I really was on the inside and what I presented at the Kingdom Hall came to a breaking point.
I now believe that regardless of how one leaves the faith, you will experience a degree of burn. This is nothing we would wish for, but the leaders of the faith set out a loyalty test for members that inevitably leads to divisions between members and non-members.
I hope you don't mind a shift in focus at this point... I'm reading the book Quantum Physics for Dummies. I'm 48 and fairly set in my life and career. If you have an interest in this subject, I would say, pursue it! The irony is Jehovah's Witnesses call their faith "the truth", which of course it absolutely is not -- but seeing on paper actual equations that speak to the fundamental nature of our material existence is truly getting a handle on "the truth" -- it computes!
My very best wishes in your journey. I really have come to hate how religious leaders can influence our family and friends!
Take care,
-Randy
Last Edited By: rawe Sep 14 13 6:06 PM. Edited 1 times.
status offlineAndriaSyxx
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TO20 ... rather than think of your current situation as 'living a lie' ....... instead why don't you think of it like I did ... 'biding my time until I can leave under my own steam'! Far less stressful on your heart and mind that way!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineTO20
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Dec 14 13 5:49 PM
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Finally done my grueling exam schedule, and a long awaited break is finally here.
Now that I have plenty of time available, I figure I would come here and say a friendly 'Hello'.
status offlineMystla
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Dec 14 13 6:52 PM
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wave
Hello. smiley: happy
How did your exams go and when will you know the results?
"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago; the second best time is now"
-old Chinese proverb
status offlineTO20
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Dec 14 13 7:28 PM
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I feel like it went well, I'll find out soon enough. Should get my marks just before Christmas, thanks for asking.
status offlinesolitaire
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Fingers crossed for your results!! I think its a great idea for you to kill some time in here...........whilst you are still 'under the radar' at least you can pop in here and let off steam after those interminable meetings!!! Plus we will have another 'spy' who can keep us up to date and provida us with our 'food at the appropriate time' smiley: wink
Sam x
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
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Dec 15 13 6:25 AM
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image Welcome to the forum TO20!
I’m sorry I missed your intro post back in the summer—must have been off sailing somewhere. Congrats on re-evaluating your belief system at such a young age. As born-ins and raised-ins, often every decision we have made has been based on a lie. Just know that there is no rush to figure out what you believe and no need to replace one belief system with another. We won’t always have the answers like we were told we did when we were in the organization. That’s OK.
Finishing your education is key to your future. If you have an interest in Physics, please consider pursuing that-- If it is your passion, all the more so. The market is flooded with IT and Business Management graduates. My husband left for the same reasons your started your exit— bored to tears at the vapid meetings and a love for science.
Even if you think your parents won’t shun you, and your sister won’t rat you out, be prepared. They are Captives of a Concept. http://captivesofaconcept.com/index_for_site_all.html That is why your father still defends his beliefs. My husband was out 30 years before I left. He just went on with his life believing they “basically had it right and were pretty much benign.” I would suggest that you do your own thorough research into WT history, doctrine and false prophesies while you are on bread from Uni. Jwfacts.com is a good place to start. Prove to yourself The Truth about the Truth (TTATT).
As far as friends in the WT, they are conditional friends. You need to build a community of support for when you break ties. After 42 years in I have one friend standing, and I’m only “inactive”. If you don’t call them, they won’t call you. I love this friend dearly, but we live different lives now. I know she can’t let go of the hope of a paradise earth and seeing her brother who committed suicide decades ago in his early twenties. I know she would shun me if told to. I would love her no less and miss her terribly and be sad that she missed living a truly fulfilling life.
It is hard to build and maintain friendships that withstand the test of time. Friendships often revolve around a mutual interest. When we move on to something different, whether a new interest or a new job, most friendships fall by the wayside. Only a few become part of our “heart family” as one of our posters calls it. Family doesn’t have to be based on blood ties.
Wishing you freedom and family!
What is needed for dramatic change is an accumulation of acts, adding, adding to, adding more, continuing. We know that it does not take everyone on Earth to bring justice and peace, but only a small, determined group who will not give up during the first, second, or hundredth gale.
One of the most calming and powerful actions you can do to intervene in a stormy world is to stand up and show your soul. Soul on deck shines like gold in dark times. The light of the soul throws sparks, can send up flares, builds signal fires, causes proper matters to catch fire. To display the lantern of soul in shadowy times like these – to be fierce and to show mercy toward others; both are acts of immense bravery and greatest necessity.
Struggling souls catch light from other souls who are fully lit and willing to show it. If you would help to calm the tumult, this is one of the strongest things you can do.
Excerpts from, You Were Made for This, by Clarissa Pinkola Estes, Ph.D
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Dec 15 13 6:56 AM
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Hi TO20,
Finally done my grueling exam schedule, and a long awaited break is finally here. Now that I have plenty of time available, I figure I would come here and say a friendly 'Hello'.
Hopefully you're down time during the holiday season will be nice break. Your post reminded me how fast time goes by. I mentioned that I was reading Quantum Physics for Dummies in the post several months back. Since then I've sent it back to the library and check it out again, but haven't started to re-read it yet.
I hope you've been able to continue the "slow... fade" from the faith in a way that works best. So frustrating to hear this! Most parents would be delighted to have a child pursuing higher education such as yourself and they would be happy to talk with their friends about it. Alas, even being 'fairweather' Witnesses means a need to be guarded on the subject. Hopefully your sister who knows your feelings continues to be supportive.
Cheers,
-Randy
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Dec 15 13 1:11 PM
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Solitaire, don't think I'd be much use in being a spy, lol, in the last 4 months, I've probably only went to 2 meetings plus the convention. So literally have no idea about the details they're teaching now, I'm kind of familiar with the 'new light'. I'm pretty sure I'm considered inactive at this point. Since I haven't handed in a service report in probably 5 months. Not having to commit 4+ hours a week to them is so liberating, except when I had to go to the convention, that was torture, luckily it was a one day convention. And even when I did go I just zone out, my attention span is probably 10 mins, when I'm not interested in something.
Sailaway, since I came on this forum back in august, I spent so much time reading jwfacts and jwsurvey. I never realized how wrong they were, it confirmed my stance in regards to my opinions of the organization. I initially had similar beliefs as your husband, where JW's had the correct interpretation of the bible, the problem was I just didn't believe in the bible. I've done a complete 180 on that belief, and now firmly believe they are a poisonous influence to people.
As for pursuing physics, I'm seriously considering going for a second degree in a science/engineering field. I still got a year and a half left in my current program, so still plenty of time to decide. I feel like if I don't at least try I will end up regretting it later in my life, but I'll see how things go until then.
Rawe, my slow fade has been unintentionally sudden (as I mentioned above) because of time constraints from school, since there's no way I'm gonna compromise my grades to go to the hall. It made my last convention interesting when I saw the people from my hall. And yes time really does go by fast, feels like it was only yesterday I first posted here, and I was about to begin my third year. It's comforting to know all this is probably go by quickly, and I can finally live the life I want. Until then I'll keep biding my time.
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Dec 15 13 3:31 PM
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TO20 wrote:
And even when I did go I just zone out, my attention span is probably 10 mins, when I'm not interested in something.
Sailaway, since I came on this forum back in august, I spent so much time reading jwfacts and jwsurvey. I never realized how wrong they were, it confirmed my stance in regards to my opinions of the organization. I initially had similar beliefs as your husband, where JW's had the correct interpretation of the bible, the problem was I just didn't believe in the bible. I've done a complete 180 on that belief, and now firmly believe they are a poisonous influence to people.
As for pursuing physics, I'm seriously considering going for a second degree in a science/engineering field. I still got a year and a half left in my current program, so still plenty of time to decide. I feel like if I don't at least try I will end up regretting it later in my life, but I'll see how things go until then.
TO20, Glad to hear you have educated and inoculated yourself against the WT by learning TTATT!
Yeah, my eyes glaze over after abut 10 seconds of a post about doctrine! I don't even go on the Debate Forum!
Go for it with your education-- no regrets! I got swindled out of my college education (on full scholarship) because of the WT 1975 lies and propaganda.
More great reading: Combating Cult Mind Control and other books by Steven Hassan can help you wake up your family.
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.” ― Marcus Aurelius
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I'm a Closet Atheist, but still an active JW
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offlineTO20
I'm a Closet Atheist, but still an active JW
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Jul 28 13 5:17 PM
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I decided to finally tell my story to see what kind of advice I can get to help me in my situation.
I was born in the truth, and I got baptized at 14. I am now 22.
For the last 4 years of my life I have found myself slowly moving away from being a JW and I find myself firmly believing in science.
I am currently considered an active JW, although I only go to the occasional meeting and lie about my monthly service hours, just enough to keep the elders from not being overly concerned about my spiritual well being. My brother (a year older than me) is a faithful JW and my sister (a decade younger than me) is also a faithful JW, aiming to get baptized next year. My parents don't go to meetings but only because they don't feel like committing the necessary time required to be a JW, but they were regular attendees 5 years back, and my dad still defends his JW beliefs to anyone who challenges him.
I currently go to university and I am entering my third year in sept. Each time I attend a meeting or convention or whatever else, I grow frustrated that I'm wasting hours a week on something I find to be hypocritical that I don't even believe in. During the semester it's worse because of the time I have to commit to university (although time consuming, I enjoy university a lot), I really don't want to be going to a meeting (and sit through the same mundane crap every week) when I could better spend that time studying.
There are times I wish I could just renounce my faith in front of the elders and go on my merry way and focus on my future.
My issue is, my 2 closest friends are all JW's and it would really suck to lose them, one is an MS another will likely become and MS soon. I have friends outside the organization but none that I am as close to as my JW friends. My family are all JW's (although my parents are fairweather JW's I don't want to risk alienating them since I depend heavily on them while I'm in university). My sister knows I'm an atheist because she promised me she wouldn't tell anyone, and even she did, I could easily deny it.
My plan is to finally come out and tell everyone I'm an atheist once I reach financial independence and I move out of my parent's house, but that's years away from happening. And my JW friends are pushing me to be more spiritually involved which will take more time from my already loaded schedule, I just roll out with a different excuse everytime, they no I'm a study freak so I just use that excuse during the semester.
Hopefully this came out as coherently as possible, I had to proofread several times to make sure I was as clear as possible.
Last Edited By: TO20 Jul 28 13 7:11 PM. Edited 3 times.
status offlinehalf banana
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Jul 28 13 6:36 PM
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Welcome to the forum To20. It’s good to have you here and happy for you that you have realised "the truth about the truth" whilst you're still young. Many of us poor sods here have wasted decades of our lives in the Watchtower cult. It's also great that unlike the average Joe publisher, you are getting an education.
At the risk of jumping into the deep end; once you start analysing situations sceptically and critically (as you have to at uni) it is apparent there is no rational basis for much of religious belief. But do people want pure reason? No!--- It is an extremely difficult thing, in my experience, to ‘sell’ this state of mind since it does not stimulate the neurological reward system in the brain.
Belief in a supreme deity on the other hand comes with bells, whistles and euphoria.
Glad you’re here--- do let us know how you are handling the fade, your experience will be of interest to others--- And what are you studying?
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Jul 28 13 7:05 PM
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I'm studying business/information technology management,and minoring in economics.
I look forward to telling my story, it will likely take years for it to unfold but I look forward to the end result.
Last Edited By: TO20 Jul 28 13 7:46 PM. Edited 1 times.
status offlinepunkofnice
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Jul 28 13 11:54 PM
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Welcome TO20.
An education. Well done!
As for 'emboridering' your report to keep the hounders off your back I think you'll likely find that's what 99% of the JWs do anyway.
My issue is, my 2 closest friends are all JW's and it would really suck to lose them, one is an MS another will likely become and MS soon.
I'm going to be brutal here please forgive my lack of tact. If they base their friendship on whether you're a JW or not then they are clearly not REAL friends. It's called ''conditional love'' and that's all JWs are allowed to feel by their overlords the Governing paedophile protecting Body. A true friend is there for you no matter what you believe and as long as it's not harmful to others they are there for you no matter what life choices you make.
Yes it sucks me old matey!
Mind you if you are really bored at meetings you could note or record in some way the latest whacky stuff they say like all the hilarious cobblers that JW drones are spouting and report back here with it. If that's a way to lighten your burden.
....or you could hide ''the God Delusion'' or something of your choice in a NWT cover, sit at the far rear of the kingdumb hell where you can't be caught, and have a good read!
Anyway let us know how it all goes.
Regards Paul (MDA - Mentally diseased apostate)!
Just remember. Neither The Watchtower(TM) nor the elders(TM) nor anyone in the 'truth'(TM) have any authority over you. Once you accept this you're well on your way to living!
Paint jobs on some familiar magazines and 'dublications' of the washtowel are kept here >> http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/17962/Some-Familiar-Publications-given-the-paint-job
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Jul 29 13 2:31 AM
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Welcome to the forum. You have taken a very brave first step towards your freedom in joining us here. Reaching your financial independence and leaving (if and when you are truly ready to do so, with the understanding that you will be giving up those two friends and probably your family) may be closer than you think, quite possibly right under your nose, so to speak. The fact that you call your schooling "university", (while in the USA we refer to it as "going to college"), tells me that you might not live in the US. If so, I don't know what financial resources are available to you, but I would suggest that you speak to an adviser and the financial services office, and explain your circumstances to them. If I am correct, I believe that (at least in NY, where I live) full-time students who are in financial need can apply for funds through Social Services, and qualify for money, food, housing and medical care, and have their schooling paid for, as well. Those things may be available to you also. It's worth a try to find out, and if so, at least you will have a position of strength from which to make a decision, instead of feeling stuck.
Take the time to do your research. I would think your school would do whatever they can to assure that you continue to be able to complete your degree, and good luck with your studies and reaching your goal.
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Jul 29 13 2:34 AM
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You aren't the only one who has to pretend. There are others on here. One is going back for reinstatement so she can have her family back. It's terrible that people have to outright lie about what they believe just to keep their family relationships, but that's how it is in that cult. So try to not let it get to you too much. It should help to know you aren't the only one having to lie/pretend to believe something you don't believe. The cult makes that necessary, not you. It sounds like you are fairly successful at it, so that's good. Just keep it up for as long as you have to. And as Punk said, you can always let us know of any outrageous things you hear of from the meetings. We like to get a peek inside as to what new drivel they are delivering.
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Jul 29 13 4:11 AM
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Welcome...let me find an iconBalloonsThrow heart kisses
I'll check in later when I've not been up all night because I think this is another interesting topic. Take care, Lin
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Jul 29 13 4:29 AM
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Congratulations on the education!
Not so good on the friends part, sorry. I had 3 or 4 friends who I spent all my time with. Once I was labelled bad association, that was it, they all disappeared
Such is life living in a religion that dictates even what family members you are meant to speak to for a different opinion than yours.
You maybe even able to speak frankly with your friends and they may agree about many things, in private. Unfortunately in public, peer pressure and the need for public conformity and fear of shunning on themselves, they will quickly leave.
All you can do is plant a seed and hope it grows and sprouts. Maybe one day they will walk up to you and say "Wow, you won't believe this but what you said really stuck with me".
We can but hope. :-(
But the good news is, that there are many good people out in the world who are good not because they fear Armageddon, but do it because they want to and out of their own motivations. Make friends with them :-)
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Jul 29 13 4:56 AM
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Thanks everyone, nice to be welcomed.
cangie wrote:
The fact that you call your schooling "university", (while in the USA we refer to it as "going to college"), tells me that you might not live in the US.
Correct, I live in Toronto, Canada.
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Jul 29 13 5:39 AM
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Welcome to the board, fellow Canadian! smiley: smile
Congrats on undertaking a university education. Good choice.
Entering third year? Do you plan on doing grad school? If not, two years of uni shouldn't cost all that much (of course 'not that much' is relative...). Canadian student loans are there for people who don't have other resources and two years of loans wouldn't be that difficult to deal with. Especially as you are taking a degree that should assure you employment when you are finished.
TO20 (is that a bit like 420? smiley: wink)...Punky brought up something that I thought of when I read your story. And that is the conditional nature of friendship within the JWs. As close as you feel to the friends you have inside the organization, that friendship is in jeopardy the moment that you step outside the confines of the JWs and decide to become the person you really are. It is unfortunate and it sucks. It is a terrible price that a person has to pay just in order to be fully present and who you are.
Good luck, TO20 and I am glad that you have stopped by to tell us your story. I hope you stick around.
smiley: happy
“I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.”
- Susan B. Anthony
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Jul 29 13 8:08 AM
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birdwoman2 wrote:
Entering third year? Do you plan on doing grad school?
TO20 (is that a bit like 420? image)...
Lol, no that wasn't my intention. I wanted my user name to remain somewhat obscure since I'm currently active and I don't want to risk getting caught by a nosy elder on this site. So i chose TO as an abbreviation of Toronto. The '20' was because it was the first number in my head.
I have never smoked or done drugs because Im scared shitless of getting cancer.
Yes, I plan on getting my masters, and eventually my PhD.
Last Edited By: TO20 Jul 29 13 8:17 AM. Edited 2 times.
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Hmmm. Well, then, A Masters and a PhD will require substantially more money. Mind you, by that time, you should have a source of income. Either scholarships, bursaries, or...if you lucky and good at what you do - a teaching position that will help pay the bills while you work on those extra letters behind your name. :)
Keep pursuing your education goals - put them first and the rest will fall into place. (always first)
*using marijuana does not increase a person's risk of cancer. In fact, it is prescribed quite often for cancer patients. For pain. And some people even claim that using marijuana shrunk their tumor. Jus' sayin'.
smiley: smokin
“I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.”
- Susan B. Anthony
status offlineTO20
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Jul 29 13 8:52 AM
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birdwoman2 wrote:
Hmmm. Well, then, A Masters and a PhD will require substantially more money. Mind you, by that time, you should have a source of income. Either scholarships, bursaries, or...if you lucky and good at what you do - a teaching position that will help pay the bills while you work on those extra letters behind your name. :)
Keep pursuing your education goals - put them first and the rest will fall into place. (always first)
*using marijuana does not increase a person's risk of cancer. In fact, it is prescribed quite often for cancer patients. For pain. And some people even claim that using marijuana shrunk their tumor. Jus' sayin'.
image
Fair enough.
And as for my education, I plan on working a few years before I go back and get my masters.
Last Edited By: TO20 Jul 29 13 9:11 AM. Edited 1 times.
status offlinealexia
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Jul 29 13 5:37 PM
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Welcome to the forum!
I've been away for over 10 years but my mother still doesn't know. I left when I divorced my ex-husband for domestic violence (he was/is a JW). Since I lived in the next city over from my mother (she is in Oakland, I was in Berkeley) it was easy to "fake the funk". I haven't stepped foot in a KH in about 8 years and though I don't believe in a Christian god, creation, etc I know there is something higher than us out there. I also believe in the spirit world, astrology, life after death, and so on.
I did lose many friend only because I don't go to meetings anymore. Those were not my real friends. If they knew what I believe they would not have any problems throwing me under the bus.
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Jul 30 13 9:03 AM
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Welcome to the board TO20 :-)
Well done for seeing through the farce that is the organisation!! The sad part is that unfortunately we do lose all the people who made up our lives whilst we were 'in'...........but great part is that we take back control of our lives and gain the freedom to think for ourselves......
I wouldn't worry too much about the details of 'coming out'.......you are already mentally free, and the rest you must do when it suits you........there are a few here who are still living under the parents roof, and it would be detrimental to their future plans to say anything too soon!!
Its great to have you here, and I look forward to following your story, and your progress in the 'real world' smiley: smile
Sam
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
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Aug 1 13 10:20 AM
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As many of us do...keep coming back because we do understand.
Keep at getting the education that will help you when older. You don't have to "clean window" the rest of your life" while others have figured out for getting a good retirement.
America is so hyprcrical...and it's my Country that I love. I just don't love the politicans or the religious.
I just spoke with a young girl that has goals because of how she was raised. It wasn't about how someone should support her, it was about how she could help herself....not having the happiest of life either.
It seems many of us do whatever for having a sense of family and then the day comes when it doesnt' matter because they will never change whereas we want making positive changes.
I'm with most here in that I'm don't give a shit about Jehovah or any god. I do however try finding peace within myself and not think I'm so ignorant and hateful that I cannot find love. LIN
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Aug 9 13 5:17 AM
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Hey T020. Sorry to hear about your situation.
Nothing much to add other than what's already been said.
I too come from a family of practicing JWs. My successful drift out of the borg was down to being able to move congregations and 'forget' to have my record cards forwarded.
It sounds like you're set on making the big announcement which will almost certainly result in you being DFd/DAd. You're just compromised by the amount of time it will take to reach financial independence.
You said you do have some friends outside the borg, although not as close. Is there any way you can become close enough to move in with someone or house share?
This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. And grow up. And move on. Reasonable people don't write letters because... A: They have lives and B, they understand it's just TV. C: If they see something they don't like, something they do like might be on later. I've seen many comics I've hated. I've seen many shows that have offended me. I've never written a letter. I just go about my life.
Bill Hicks 1993
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Aug 10 13 9:20 AM
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Thanks for the welcome.
I don't really mind getting DF'd or DA'd. I could easily leave these people from the borg and not really care. Family might be a concern but I doubt they'll completely shun me.
I also plan on bringing as many people with me by planting seeds in their heads, just before I make the big announcement. If I'm lucky some of my friends will leave the borg as well.
My friends outside the truth became friends recently ( a year or two ago), I'll probably become closer to them but it will happen over time.
I'm patient so time isn't really an issue, since right now I'm doing well in school, keeping the elders at bay and I help my kingdom hall friends when they need spiritual advice (I might as well play the part so they don't suspect anything).
The tiresome thing is just having to drag my butt to the meetings, get my weekly dose of brainwash, and go back home, every week for the next few years.
My dilemma right now is deciding how to make the announcement in a few years. I want to go out with a bang. I thinking facebook post with all the flaws in the organization/bible, so any of my JW friends that read it will join me or at least I can make them question their faith. Then go to the following meeting where elders want to have a meeting with me, say my last few words and walk into the sunset.
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I'm raising my glass to you TO20.
Here's to 'going out with a bang' - Best of British luck to ya mate.
This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. And grow up. And move on. Reasonable people don't write letters because... A: They have lives and B, they understand it's just TV. C: If they see something they don't like, something they do like might be on later. I've seen many comics I've hated. I've seen many shows that have offended me. I've never written a letter. I just go about my life.
Bill Hicks 1993
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You might want to check this out:
http://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/wiki/index#wiki_exit_guide
"Which to you, is more awe inspiring; that you were created for the sole purpose of worshiping a dictator in the sky who forbids the joys of life? Or that you and I are the product of billions of years of evolution through natural selection, with each molecule making up the human body having once been a part of a distant star through the process of stellar fusion, having erupted from a supernova to one day allow each of us to sit and ponder our own existence. We are the universe becoming self aware. You can keep your gods, i belong to something greater."- Levi Herbert
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@tbd:
Awesome link. Thanks!
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Attending the Unitarian Universalist Congregation
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offlinerawe
Attending the Unitarian Universalist Congregation
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Dec 12 13 9:51 PM
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Hi Everyone,
Several months back I began feeling a need to find some form of formal religious connection. The big problem with that of course is I am an atheist and for the most part Wendy (my wife) would identify as such too. My oldest daughter sometimes says she believes in God, but probably is more in the agnostic category. My second two would definitely call themselves unbelievers and my youngest is just 10.
My family has been wonderfully supportive of my somewhat odd connection to things related to faith. Nonetheless, I don't want to do something that would cause any to be uncomfortable. So... we've now gone a few times to VUU here in Chandler. The advantage of UU for folks like me is they embrace all forms of belief or non-belief. The majority identify as humanists, 13% as theists and in this particular group nearly 1/2 as atheists.
So far it has just been myself, Wendy and our youngest who have attended. We've gone to about 4 services so far. Last Sunday my youngest was not feeling well so I went alone. I was able to stay for a bit afterwards and chat with a member of the choir who had been a JW for 50 years! He was so funny. He said, "as a JW I was promised life in paradise, so I was good. At UU I was not promised anything, so now I'm good for nothing!" :)
Compared to the Kingdom Hall, a few things stand out. First is no Bibles and very little direct mention of God. Second is the amount of singing, both by the choir and the congregation. If feels like about 60% of the 1:15 service is dedicated to song. A collection plate was passed around. It was large gold coloured plate/bowl -- whoops, forgot about that! But no one seemed to mind that we just passed it on, without putting something in.
After about 15 minutes of service, they invited all the children up front. Then they gave them a 8-10 minute lesson while we listened in, much like a classroom setting with the children being asked questions and answering back. This was followed by the "bridge of love", wherein the congregation members from opposite aisles raise and hold holds that then allow the children to run down under. Apparently from there the children go to Sunday school, however we so far have kept our 10 year old with us. It felt a bit odd and uncomfortable to do this bit at first, but I think it is an interesting idea. I have often reflected on the fact that the Kingdom Hall experience is not very engaging even for adults, let alone children -- but they are expected to love it, and say so -- so wind up being forced into a sort of dishonesty from young age. Yet at other churches, programs are actually designed for children -- imagine that!
Both as you enter and leave the service, you walk past a number of volunteer tables that have been setup. Wendy stopped and picked up a couple items from the "giving tree", so now we'll need to buy two Christmas gifts for children who would otherwise not get such things.
Both Wendy and I have googled for information critical of the UU faith. Mostly what we've found and it makes sense, is the faith winds up being so widely embracing of people and ideas it winds up being quite vague. That the only unity seems to tied to a group of people that don't fit in elsewhere. Theological objections are what one would expect too -- the group are not Christians, even though they talk about Jesus. By rejecting the idea of original sin, the focus shifts to internal worth and goodness of individuals. While that may be preferred it could be little more than creating an idol of self. So far... this last objection, seems tempered by a message of building self-worth by helping others. That is okay by me.
In any regards, my plan is to take is slowly, hang out for at least one year doing nothing more the observing how things go. Keeping an eye open for anything that smells cultist or money-grubbing.
Cheers,
-Randy
Last Edited By: rawe Dec 12 13 10:24 PM. Edited 3 times.
status onlineLocutus
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Hi Randy,
i'm processing this...
Will report my opinions upon review. My first inclination is to view the UU as a tax haven/holding property business. Of course I'm just a cynical atheist.
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It sounds nice to me, a place for people to connect to each other, regardless of belief or non belief.
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Hi Locutus,
Your post promoted me to look up cynic on Wikipedia. I knew it was a school of Greek philosophy, that today has become associated with a sort of automatic distrust. And that is it, right? We know motives are not always so good or what people claim they are. Yet, having been burned by JWs we need to be careful not to become too cynical.
I will say, it is interesting to sit in a religious service and have the preacher give a sermon wherein I am say, yeah, I agree with that, or I see his point, even though I feel not exactly the same way. But so far, none of the this-is-just-crazy. Reverend (yes, that the term they use) Andy talked to Wendy and me briefly after the service. He was trained in a traditional Christian seminary and was either a Baptist or Pentecostal Preacher. However, he himself started to have doubts about God's existence and said reading Richard Dawkin's The God Delusion was a turning point for him. After that he found his way into the UU group.
Cheers,
-Randy
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Hi Randy, I was glad to see your post. I checked out the UU church about a year after I left the JWs. I found the climate to be highly political, with members vying to get me to side with them on various topics regarding running the church, and this was at a welcoming picnic! It wasn't a good fit for me, but I hope you are finding that community of faith you have been searching for. They do seem to be very transparent about finances and how they support their paid clergy and other initiatives. One is required to pledge a contribution in order to become a voting member. The UU church in my town has an informative website with an on-line newsletter and calendar of activities.
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Hi SailAway,
I live in Arizona, where conservatives & Republicans tend to be in the majority. In contrast it appears the UU folks are more on the Liberal Progressive side politically. And politically I'm all over the map. I'm with Libertarians in terms of foreign policy and tend to think the USA should not involve themselves in conflicts in other countries. I'm with Democrats in terms of many social issues like gay marriage and abortion rights. Yet, I don't think government in general should spend more money than it takes in in revenue and that well-regulated free market capitalism is generally a good thing, even when some businesses over time are no longer viable and must scale down or come to an end. And of course I strongly believe in rights to free speech, having a free press, freedom of religion (inclusive of freedom from religion), the right to vote, etc -- i.e. the sorts of things one finds in the constitutions of Canada and the USA.
But... while I don't mind saying what my political views are, I generally shy away from intense arguments about them. Light banter, no problem, but convince me of this, ask me to defend that, I am not looking for that. Mostly, because I feel fairly uninformed and ignorant on these issues most of the time. What I think I know reasonable well (JW stuff, software engineering and some science) absorbs most of my mental energy. So... yes, I'm worried about. So far, not too much has come up in that regard. They did mention that after the service they were going to have a presentation on how to sign up for health insurance at healthcare.gov for those that were interested.
Cheers,
-Randy
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Hi again Randy, I guess I wasn't clear enough that church politics was an issue for me. In JW Land the rank and file have no say or even knowledge about decision making within the congregation. Not so in the UU church it seems!
Last Edited By: SailAway Dec 14 13 7:17 AM. Edited 1 times.
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Hi SailAway,
Oh, internal politics... hmm.. nothing so far, but of course I'm very new to it. I don't think I would be that interested in that bit either, so hopefully won't run into to much lobbying by members.
Cheers,
-Randy
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Just a head's up from my experience, and wishing you the best!
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I LOVE your attitude Randy....you always 'boldly go' lol!! I found this interesting.....
That the only unity seems to tied to a group of people that don't fit in elsewhere
That is imo a very astute observation......seems to me that there will always be someone looking to 'fill' an empty slot.........not that that is of itself negative, but I would still wonder if the organisers of the 'one fits all' approach have truly altruistic intentions....so I would like to know who instigated this 'congregation' and what is their story??
Love to you and Wendy
Sam xxx
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
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Hi Randy,
I found UUs 3 about years after leaving JWs. For me, the key to difference with UUs is what you believe or don't believe about the supernatural is of secondary importance. How you treat other and the world around you is primary. I like that.
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Randy, It's always good hearing from youBeating heart
I'll do my research too as to this group you speak of.
Ya' know my mantra: "There is no separation of Church and State." "Sooner or later when you lay with the Devil, you will fuck."
Enjoy the adventure and remember to just sometimes take a break from the studies and just have fun with those beautiful children that don't need a lot of stress from the adults.
Chat later, Lin
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Perhaps it's not religion you're seeking Randy .... but the association with people who have a similar outlook in life. Not sure if you get what my Aussie brain is trying to say ... but ...
You've come from a very authoritarian 'do as you're told or you'll die' type of religious lifestyle. A religious lifestyle where the family unit is held tightly together by even tighter constraints ... with people looking over your shoulder and under your armpits 24/7. Your latest church adventure ... is totally and utterly different to what you're used to. It seems to be charismatic ... friendly ... and non-judgmental. Given you're a rather astute kind of fella .... I dare say this is more like an experiment of experience ... rather than a search for a new religion to follow.
It's not my cup of tea at all ... not even remotely ... but you do like this 'where angels fear to tread ... there goes Randy' type of journey! Have fun ...
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
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Hey Randy, just saw this and thought I'd pipe in. I haven't gone to a Unitarian service but thought about it many times. I might still go one of these days.
I have met Unitarians and the things your described are pretty much what I got from talking to these folks.
I think I told you but if not, I decided in the end not to move down to Phoenix. Not getting to be there and spend some time with you and Wendy and your kids is certainly a part of that decision I will miss. I would have attended the Unitarian church with you!
I have a wonderful little 90+ year old aunt up in Prescott Valley who almost convinced me to check into the Unity church (and I may still.........). She is the only one of my dad's family who never bought into the JW's. From what I've read about Unity it is yet another 19th/20th century religion but it is much more aligned with my thoughts on things although belief in god has definitely taken a serious beating lately. Ha! Actually it would probably be my belief in MYSELF that has taken the beating because that is pretty much where I finally figured out that god resided. I'm going to have to kick my own ass a bit more if I want 'god' to get busy doing good things I guess LOL!
Next time I get down there I will call you and hopefully we can all get together.
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
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Hi Randy, I'm glad you posted this. I myself have had a bit of a desire to hang out/talk with people who have the same viewpoint as I do. I tried the westside UU church out here a few years ago. They hold a logic/reason morality of atheism class before the service and the one I attended I was in a room with a bunch of old men and arrogance stifled the air. Then the service; they had some visiting folk singers and from there the entire service was centered around bashing god and bashing Christianity.
So I get the feeling that like any other religion different congregations will have their own social clique and congregants will form a gathering of like minds and beliefs. This one just happens to possibly be made up of people who express hatred for others beliefs, and me being a deist, I don't think I will fit in.
But that was several years ago, maybe I didn't give it enough visits, and I think you just encouraged me to give it another go, never hurts to make more friends.
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I'll be going to a meeting held at the library for people to come in and talk about current events, Jan. 31. That sounds like something I'd like. It's not spiritual at all, of course, but sounds like it's up my alley. Will let you all know how that goes. A chance to meet new people and socialize a bit.
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Cacky wrote:
I'll be going to a meeting held at the library for people to come in and talk about current events, Jan. 31. That sounds like something I'd like. It's not spiritual at all, of course, but sounds like it's up my alley. Will let you all know how that goes. A chance to meet new people and socialize a bit.Let me know if they are able to keep politics out of it:)
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I expect we will discuss politics. Especially Chris Christy! lol
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Study shows jws prone to mental illness
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Study shows jws prone to mental illness
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http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/126/6/556.abstract
I didn't know if I should put this here or in the health board. Thought it would get more views here.
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I believe I've seen this article, although, I've never read it; so, thank you for posting this.
I'm reading an article on religious affiliation, and the disposition to forgive, and it seems to say that the more mature one is with regard to spirituality, the better they are at forgiving. Honestly, I do not know why, considering that people high in religion tended to be pretty judgmental.
I can understand that they are four times more likely to be diagnosed as suffering from paranoid schizophrenia. I do not know much about this illness, but considering how the WTBTS teaches it's members to be afraid of everything because of Satan's influence, I can understand. With regard to paranoia, this mentality made us all a little paranoid; some more than others.
I do wonder who sponsored this study, and if there have been any followup studies done.
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This is a very old study looking at a small sample from one geographic location. It would be difficult to extrapolate these results in a scientifically valid way to the entire religion. The definitions for schizophrenia and paranoid schizophrenia have changed dramatically since this was done in 1975, too. Which is not to say I doubt there is excessive mental illness in JWs. I 100% believe that mental illness is strongly associated with extreme religion, including JWs, but this article probably would not be compelling to most modern clinicians because of its age and methodological flaws. After three decades as a JW, I can't say I witnessed anything close to these levels of schizophrenia or paranoid schizophrenia. These are both very serious organic disorders and paranoid schizophrenics can be quite dangerous as the result of their delusions. Plenty of depression, paranoid thinking, personality disorders and other mental health issues, though. I think personality disorders (borderline personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder, etc.) are a more common problem for JWs than true schizophrenia.
It's hard to say which comes first--does the religion attract people who already have mental health issues and are looking for control and for someone to tell them what to do or does the religion make otherwise reasonably health people mentally ill? I tend to think it is a little of both, but probably more of the first. People with existing problems are drawn to a religion that promises that if they follow all the rules they will be special and chosen and earn everlasting life. With judging and 'marking' actively encouraged, it also gives people with very low self-esteem a chance to be openly superior to others for the first time in their lives. A perfectly functional person would be unlikely to be 'receptive' to the message of the JWs. So you start a family line with someone who is less than mentally sound and then perpetuate both the mental illness and the believe system through the family line.
When you think about it, this is a faith system where everything you do, say and even think is controlled and watched. You are also told that other people who don't believe like you do are essentially under the control of the devil. If you truly believed this, as you are told true Christians do, you'd have to be crazy not to be a little paranoid! You can never measure up to the excessive demands of perfection (according to WBTS standards), so of course life gets a little depressing. It would be great to do an updated study looking at this with a larger, possibly even international, group and with modern mental disease classifications.
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With judging and 'marking' actively encouraged, it also gives people with very low self-esteem a chance to be openly superior to others for the first time in their lives.
Yes. A hugely and often underlooked factor of what it is that keeps the disfellowshipping machine in place.
It would be great to do an updated study looking at this with a larger, possibly even international, group and with modern mental disease classifications.
I do not think that a scientifically valid study could ever be possible. The JWs are a closed society that embeds dishonesty into their followers to such a degree that a valid measurement and an accurate sample representation would be almost impossible.
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Casting call for ex-jw reality show.
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offlineMystla
Casting call for ex-jw reality show.
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Aug 22 13 5:10 PM
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http://www.realitywanted.com/call/26136-casting-for-former-jehovahs-witnesses-for-new-docu-series#.Uha1y5LOkjG
Sounds like they are looking for ex-jw's gone wild. smiley: happy
"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago; the second best time is now"
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status offlineJames the brain
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Aug 23 13 2:06 AM
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I signed up but I think I'm too old (37) even though I somehow still look like I'm about 25...
status offlineinspecterD
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After the "Breaking Amish" reality show aired I kinda figured that they would do one on JW's. Unfortunately, they only deal with the behaviors and not the doctrines of the schism that they are hitting on. In some ways I wonder if they do more damage than good in exposing cults. The shock value is what sells and trying to discuss or show the consistences or out an out lies probably won't be discussed in length. Sure their behaviors that will be exposed will probably be enlightening but then I also know that it won't help hard and fast Dubbies since they can always say that is an oddity and not something that happens all that often. Also unfortunately, some of those that leave don't have a firm grasp on exactly the cult teaches so will probably blurt out something that is obviously questionable and will nullify whatever good can come out of it. A thoughtful documentary is probably much more useful in combating the cult.
status offlinethehappygoat
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Well I think it's a great idea. Breaking Amish might not delve into doctrinal issues, but it sure as hell shows the horrible power of shunning. I think outsiders clearly can see the anguish this shunning has had on so many young adult escapees. Their sometimes extremely self-destructive behavior can be clearly connected to the religion. A "reality" show on ex-JW's might at the very least help some teetering witnesses see that there can be life beyond.
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Raised JW
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offlineDrac
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Apr 8 14 10:50 AM
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I was raised in the organization until I was disfellowshipped at 18 for having a sexual relationship with another jw. I am still friends with him. What he went thru in front of the elders and what I did was night and day. I was asked about specific sexual acts in detail. I stuck around to get reinstated cause my dad was an elder, which he eventually step down. Last time I was in the hall was for my fathers funeral. This is a personal question so I understand if no one replies. I'm under psychiatric care. I suffer from PTSD, and borderline personality disorder. I have another friend that is an "X" that has the same diagnosis. I'm glad I found this group. My friend and I were thinking of putting an ad in city paper looking for other "X" to socialize with. Even relationships r difficult, in the back of my head I hear how I'm sinning.
I am am really far out of the organization. And have read about other religions.... Mostly Buddhism, and I'm interested in the Druids.
status offlineKBG
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Hi Drac,
Glad to meet you. Is your friend still a JW, or is he out too?
The elders are funny. Does knowing about the specific sex acts really change anything? I think they ask for their own perverted jollies.
Best to you, K
status offlineYammerHammer
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Welcome Drac! Yep, being raised as a Witness really does a number on your head. I too have had problems with depression, panic attacks, and I spent about a week-and-a-half in a psychiatric hospital many years ago. That was not long after I realized I could no longer be a Witness. Everyone is here for support... to receive and to give. We--you--are not alone. There are probably millions of people who have had to leave the religion because they "figured it out" for themselves.
Pull up a chair and stay awhile, read some of the personal stories, you will find you you have a lot more company than you ever thought.
“The first problem for all of us, men and women, is not to learn but to unlearn.” ~ Gloria Steinem
status offlinewhytebyrd2
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Hello Drac and welcome! I have to say, being a Sci-Fi fan as I am, your user name makes me think of Enemy Mine. I always liked that little known film because it championed tolerance for differences. Anyway, your experiences with intimate questionings by elders is not just your experience. It is all part of the elders procedure and yes, it is perverted and unnecessary. That is especially so when applied to young ones who are not of legal age. I expressed my opinion of this back when I was still very much a witness thinking it was an isolated occurrence. Later I found out it was 'procedure'. Later, when my turn came it seems they remembered because they held back a bit on the questions. I hope I caused at least one of then to think long and hard on their 'procedure'. I used to suffer from panic attacks as well. So many of my problems abated when I was able to fully let go of the brain washing/programming/inculcating regiment. When you live your life looking at every person, not as a fellow human being but as someone who is going to be destroyed unless you bring them into your religion (the 'truth') it has a profound damaging effect on the psyche. It is an unnatural state of being for any human with love and compassion at their core. The Watchtower is creating a legion of robots (Borg) who have surrendered themselves completely to this organization and have surrendered their natural affection for loyalty to the governing body. Good for you for your fight and struggle to get out of the mind control. I myself don't adhere to any religious belief but I respect many aspects of Budhism. I really think that that was the background for at least some of the sermon on the mount. The teachings of the East were definitely penetrating the Middle East during the first century. Stick around and get to know us! We're a pretty nice bunch of peeps!
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
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status offlineAndriaSyxx
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Hi Drac and welcome .....
It is not easy to shake off the habits of old ....... as many of us in here will tell you (and already have!) ....................... but what you could do to help yourself, is to stop and think about what it is that makes you feel like you're sinning or guilty or fearful. My guess is ... that most of the things you're feeling odd about ... are things that you've been raised and indoctrinated to think odd about. You have inherited the fear and guilt from a religion that doesn't think twice about asking highly personal questions of its young ones. That is not a religion ... that is a high control cult. You were not in a court of law and the elders of your time had no right to be so invasive. Don't let them hold you back anymore .......... you're in the right spot to vent, ask questions or just read!
"Life is too short to spend with people who suck the happiness out of you!"
status offlineMarked for life
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Hey Drac and welcome!
You found a group of people alot like yourself and I can tell you this site has been awesome for most of us! I hope it can be for you too!
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status offlineCacky
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Hi and welcome Drac. It's nice to meet you. Yes, many elders are perverts and get their jollies by asking details of the young women. What jerks.
status offlinesolitaire
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Hello there and welcome :-)
Yep - extricating ourselves from the nightmare that is jw's can only really be understood by those who have experienced it!! You have found a whole international group here who do understand the legacy that the religion leaves.........I hope you stick around and get to know some of us......talking things through can be so helpful in your difficulties smiley: smile
Good to have you here
Sam x
"Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow"
status offlineceej
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Welcome to the board Drac, I hope you get some better understanding of yourself on here. This board helped many a time when I first came out.
'many elders are perverts and get their jollies by asking details of the young women.'
I'm a male and I was asked the intricate details as well. I'm not sure it's particularly to do with them being perverts, as it is finding out the extent of what you've done. I know anal sex would obviously be deemed worse than say a hand job. Not that i'm defending them, I just don't think it's sensible coming to conclusions. Should I say all three elder's were homosexual perverts praying on the details I gave them? Not really.
status offline1moxjdub
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Apr 10 14 11:26 PM
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My experience was quite different. I lived with so much guilt and shame fear and trepidation about what I was doing. I had been in a number of Judicial committee meetings
even going back to my teen years and lied in all of them. I wasn't always believed but nothing could ever be proven. Long story short the last meeting I was in I just fessed up to
everthing I was sick of the lies. The elders left the room for a while and came back with their decision. Disfellowshipped- the word itself was a shocker threw me for a loop for
the rest of the evening. I was with my first wife went home told her, she of course wasn't shocked called my mother she just said to just do what you have to do to come back
I said Ok. Went to bed and woke up the next morning feeling like a tremendous weight had been lifted off of me. I felt like I could go anywhere do anything I damn well pleased
it didn't matter. As far as trying to come back I made a real concerted effort to come back I went to one meeting and said the hell with it. No more field service, book study,
talks, watchtower studies, assemblies nothing. After that first meeting I never looked back.
status offlineCee Cee
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Apr 12 14 11:48 AM
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Nice to meet you Drac! Welcome to our corner of the world.
I can identify with your history and your feelings. I too, like so many here, was raised by JDubs to be a JDub.
Filled with constantly repeated tales of the "coming soon" Armageddon, I was terrified enough to be baptized at 9 years old as a way to save my life because, as I understood it, "If you've heard about Jehovah and don't get baptized he will kill you in some horrific way." Remember the drawings of desperate people screaming for help as they were swallowed up by the earth or running from buried under the rubble of buildings falling on them? You know this message is reinforced regularly at talks and in the WTBTS' literature.
As young as I was, and with no information coming from any source other than its perpetrator, the Watchtower, it never occurred to me that those things served to control the thinking of the WT's membership. All the signs of this would be obvious to mature, independent thinking people, but kids don't have the skills or judgement to recognize such a nefarious purpose. We were just knew something wasn't right, but couldn't identify what that was.
Did you know that six out of every 10 children raised "in the truth" will leave the Organization when they are able to make adult decisions? [Google Pew Religious Landscape Survey for more info.] So you are not alone. The confusion you're experiencing isn't alien either. When the smoke clears, soon hopefully, you'll recognize that you weren't nuts--the people trying to keep you in the box with lies, coercion, guilt and threats are.
Did you know that the Watchtower's own Public Information Office claimed that they disfellowship "between 50,000 and 70,000 people EVERY YEAR? What's that mean? It means (1) you are not alone. And (2) it's evidence that something's seriously wrong with THEM--not you. [Hint, it's nothing like Jesus said his followers would be like.]
I've said this many times before, but I especially want you to know this:
Being disfellowshipped by the Witnesses was one of my life's greatest blessings. It set me free from their lies and tyranny;
Free to become the woman I was meant to be, not some 'Stepford Wife'.
Free to ask questions, not merely give the printed response to there misleading questions.
Free to use the free will I was given at birth and to get the education I so desperately wanted but had been denied "because the world is going out of business since "Armageddon is coming soon".
Free to marry a really good man who was not one of them and live a happy life without their interference.
Free to build a life meaningful to me and others.
If I could give you a gift, it would be that you come to see what has happened to you as a a stepping stone, an road to reach the best of your life.
Hugs, Grandma Cee Cee
I'm looking forward to hearing more from you.
status offlinedivertido
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Welcome Drac. You don't say how long you have been out. The voice in the back of your head saying you are sinning will GO AWAY. I too was raised JW, father a leader and elder etc... blah blah blah.
From life experience and reading other posts here it is obvious they don't have a lock on what is right or wrong. Relax, take things slowly and work on defining who you really are and what you really want without being shackled with prior indoctrinations.
Take care.
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New AAWA Petition To Sign
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offlineirishshane
New AAWA Petition To Sign
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https://www.causes.com/campaigns/74017-mandate-child-molestation-reporting-by-clergy-in-all-states?new_post_id=899593
Please sign it even if you aren't a US resident. If we can effect change in the US then that should trickle down to the rest of the organisation.
"The highs never match the lows......" - Ronan O'Gara (ex Munster rugby and Ireland player. Racing Metro coach)
status offlineKBG
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Feb 23 14 8:13 AM
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Thanks Shane, Done! Posted to FB! Posted to my church page! I'm hoping I get some support from my pals. We'll see.
Shane, are you involved with the actual survey or are you just passing the info along? There is a typo I wanted to share if the owners want to fix it. ("and" should be "in" on one of the photo texts)
status offlineirishshane
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I'm in the AAWA FB group so can pass the info on.
"The highs never match the lows......" - Ronan O'Gara (ex Munster rugby and Ireland player. Racing Metro coach)
status offlineKBG
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WooHoo, 3 of my non-JW pals have signed in just an hour. Those of you who can share this with non-JW friends/groups, please do.
status offlineKBG
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What happens if you get 5000 signatures? What is the next step?
status offlineirishshane
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i presume they forward it to the relevant departments.
"The highs never match the lows......" - Ronan O'Gara (ex Munster rugby and Ireland player. Racing Metro coach)
status offlinewalkaway
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Thanks irishshane, signed and posted to facebook.
status offlineCacky
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Thanks, Shane. I read and signed it. I didn't post it to my facebook because my jw daughters are friends of mine of fb, so I'm cautious about what I post there.
status offlineLinda.cavymadness76263
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Irish, I think it's great that things move forward. I had tried signing in but that's when the computer ads went stupid...and I just left.
I want supporting AAWA; I just don't want deal with the internet/ face book or do personal messages through this site. I want just being able to post my address and someone could write a letter, giving me information.
status offlineTTATTUSA
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It gets forwarded to the governmental agencies from Causes together with all the signatures and comments showing moral support for the cause. We still separately file claims with these agencies in duplicate.
status offlineTTATTUSA
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If you forward your email to me, I can mail you a paper copy attachment, and you can sign it. Or I can send you a more direct link for the petition.
Mod note ..... if you wish to contact TTATTUSA ... please PM her directly ... thanks smiley: smile
[personal email address removed for your safety ...... ]
Last Edited By: AndriaSyxx Mar 17 14 9:41 PM. Edited 1 times.
status offlineelsinore777.4womaninthewild...
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Done,....great cause. This one touches very close to home.
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