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News Bulletin: Watchtower Faces Dilemma in Sex Abuse Ruling
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Posted on April 20, 2016
Lopez and Zalkin address the media at a press conference
Lopez and Zalkin address the media at a press conference
Regular readers of JW Survey may recall the 2014 landmark court case of Jose Lopez in the US.
The JW Survey coverage of the case can be found here, but to cut a long story short, Lopez had been repeatedly abused by Jehovah’s Witness Gonzalo Campos. Watchtower knew about it. Watchtower did nothing. Watchtower got sued.
Watchtower refused to produce key evidence during the trial, despite a court order demanding they do so, namely their internal records demonstrating that they’ve known about, and covered up, their sex abuse problem for decades. Furthermore, Watchtower’s oldest and longest serving member of the Governing Body, Gerrit Lösch, refused to comply with the court’s demand for his deposition. Lösch stated in court documents that “I do not answer to Watchtower,” and “Watchtower does not have, and never has had, any authority over me.” Details of this statement were covered in the November 8th 2014 news report from JW Survey.
For those who have been following this issue for some time, Watchtower’s reluctance to release this child abuse data should come as no surprise. When they were forced to release similar documents in Australia in 2015 (under the apparently more compelling threat of imprisonment rather than financial penalty,) these documents resulted in headlines around the world. The Religion had been covering up over 1000 alleged molesters in its ranks since 1950, many of whom went on to be repeat offenders.
So, Watchtower crossed its arms and point blank refused to comply with the US court order. As a result of this jaw dropping and blatant contempt of court, the judge threw out their entire defense, entered a default judgment for Lopez, and slapped Watchtower with punitive damages in excess of $13 million.
Incredibly, Watchtower then appealed this verdict, apparently believing that they should be able to flout the instructions of the US Legal system without penalty.
Appeal Court Rules: Watchtower must produce documents.
lopez-gonzalo-campos
Zalkin, Campos and Lösch
The San Diego Tribune has just reported on the outcome of this appeal, and the results are not great for either side.
Firstly, the appeal court removed the 13.5 million dollar judgement against Watchtower. But if you think that sounds like a victory for Watchtower, you need to keep reading the news report. The appeals court agreed with the original trial Judge that Watchtower absolutely has to produce this data. Their only point of contention is that, rather than simply terminate Watchtower’s defence and hit them with a $13.5 million judgement, the original trial judge should have tried a few less punitive measures first to try and get cooperation.
The other issue discussed was the hotly debated deposition of Governing Body member Gerrit Lösch, whose testimony was deemed relevant to the investigation. Court documents reveal that Watchtower attorneys went to great lengths to disconnect Gerrit Lösch from any responsibility for the actions of the Watchtower organization. In fact, Lösch was compared by Watchtower counsel to the Dalai Lama following a December 2013 hearing. The court stated:
“Watchtower requested permission to submit additional information regarding the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ organizational structure, and the role of the Governing Body within this structure, including that Lösch’s role is solely one of a spiritual leader (“akin to the Dalai Lama”) and not “a corporate managing agent.”
Watchtower fought so hard to insulate Gerrit Lösch, that the California Court of Appeals finally gave in and agreed that Lösch was not a “managing agent” for Watchtower and could not be compelled to testify in this case.
However, arriving at this decision was not an admission that Lösch does not manage Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Watchtower corporations. The appeals court declared:
“With these principles in mind, we turn to consider the three Waters factors: (1) does the person exercise judgment and discretion in dealing with the party’s matters; (2) can the person be expected to comply with the party’s directive to appear; and (3) can the person be anticipated to identify himself or herself with the party’s interests. (Waters, supra, 58 Cal.2d at p. 896.)
Lopez’s evidence satisfies the first and third factors.”
The court agreed that “Lösch is a long-standing member of the Governing Body, which approves operational guidelines for the United States Branch of the Jehovah’s Witnesses organization, including issuing directives for preventing and investigating child sexual abuse within the church.”
So why did the court dismiss the ruling to depose Lösch ? It all came down to the second “factor” – whether Lösch could be “expected to comply”. The documents state:
“However, Lopez failed to produce any evidence on the second Waters factor: whether the proposed deponent can be expected to comply with the party’s directive to appear. Although there was evidence indicating the Governing Body (and its members) asserted authority over Watchtower and could influence its conduct, there was no evidence showing the reverse was true. For example, Lopez proffered no facts to indicate that Lösch receives compensation or other tangible benefits from Watchtower or that Governing Body members had previously complied with such deposition directives”
In other words, the court agreed That Gerrit Lösch controls Watchtower, but the Watchtower does not control and compensate Gerrit Lösch, and insufficient evidence was presented demonstrating that Watchtower could and would compel Lösch to testify in this case, regardless of the fact that he is the senior Governing Body member of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (And that he receives lifetime accommodations, unlimited meals, spending money, travel around the world, and health care which would be the envy of the President of the United States).
You might say that Gerit Lösch is hiding in plain sight.
governing body members and committees 2014This stance by Watchtower legal counsel amounts to legalized perjury, if there were such a thing. Documents produced by the JW Organization place Lösch at the head of the “Personnel Committee” and second only to Samuel Herd on the “Service Committee” for Jehovah’s Witnesses as of September 2014. This same Service Committee includes subordinates such as Leon Weaver, Jr., a prominent member of the U.S. Branch Committee, whose name appears on multiple legal documents, tying Weaver and the Service Committee to the core administration for Jehovah’s Witnesses in the United States. In fact, Weaver is listed as the President of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York. Whether the Court of Appeals was made aware of this connection is not clear. One thing that is clear however is the fact that Watchtower’s decision to remove all Governing Body members from their legal corporations in the year 2000 has served to insulate their leaders from the judicial process. This is Watchtower’s version of diplomatic immunity.
It may be of interest to JW Survey readers (and the Governing Body) that the document shown above, along with the leaked Branch Organization manual, were crucial to the 2015 subpoena of Geoffrey Jackson during the Australian Royal Commission on Child Abuse in Sydney. The Australian government was informed of Jackson’s key role in establishing and approving JW policies and was not tricked by the legal tactics used in an attempt to shield Jackson.
Leon Weaver, Jr. Signature as President of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York
Leon Weaver, Jr. Signature as President of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York (2012 Sale of 165 Columbia Heights)
So, the case is now going back to the original trial judge, who will attempt to try and subpoena the child abuse case documents from Watchtower with a slightly smaller stick. However, the appeal acknowledges that should Watchtower refuse to comply when the lesser sanctions are imposed, then deploying the huge financial penalty is legitimately right back on the cards.
In other words, Watchtower is faced with the same choice as before: Reveal documents that are assuredly damning to them, or pay out huge sums of money.
The paper quotes Jose Lopez’ lawyer, Irwin Zalkin, as saying:
“From our perspective, this has always been about getting the documents,” he said. He added that Watchtower has produced some prior abuse documents in other lawsuits, but they have been heavily redacted and of little use.
“They don’t want the world to know what they’ve known about child sex abuse within their organization for decades and they’ve been trying desperately to keep that covered up,” Zalkin said.
Additionally, the extra publicity and internet traffic that will now be generated by the ongoing case will only serve to draw more attention to the issue, especially among the ranks of Jehovah’s Witnesses, whom it’s clear that Watchtower’s leaders are trying to keep in the dark as relates to this.
However, whilst this judgement essentially only serves to prolong and draw attention to Watchtower’s agony, it also serves to delay justice for Jose Lopez, who will need to endure yet more of the trial process before receiving recompense for the damage that the horrendously flawed policies of Watchtower have inflicted upon him.
For those who wish to read the detailed 55 page court ruling, click here.
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32 Responses to News Bulletin: Watchtower Faces Dilemma in Sex Abuse Ruling
M. Rhodes says:
April 20, 2016 at 1:18 pm
And what is to stop them from shedding the documents, so that there are only a few? Would they resort to damage control? Have they done this before?
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John Redwood says:
April 20, 2016 at 1:30 pm
Shredding documents would be a disastrous and risky move for Watchtower, since they would likely be held in contempt for destruction of vital documents, and could face extreme negative publicity in the press as well as court ordered penalties. They will need to tread very carefully in this area
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Stupid4Jesus says:
April 24, 2016 at 12:20 pm
When will the re-trail start, then we will know if it is the list of child molsters is what brings them down or the contempt of the court. Either way Watchtower is going to have a very long year. I sure hope law enforcement gets too look at those documents. This has been the most important news I have read on this site. Thanks
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Stupid4Jesus says:
April 24, 2016 at 12:26 pm
Maybe Watchtower can sell some of is stock in U.S. Defense company’s to pay Mr. Lopez and all the other victims. They have billions in this fund. Look and see what they own in Satan’s system. http://nccsweb.urban.org/communityplatform/nccs/organization/profile/id/386043103
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Dee says:
April 20, 2016 at 1:48 pm
There is already a directive in place to destroy documents and personal notes about molestation cases. The WTS might say, instead of setting a dangerous precedent by producing damning documents, we’ll just keep eating the $ penalties. But the internet does not allow for the Wizard of Oz curtains, smoke, and mirrors trick any more. The curtain has been irreparably rent, and the selfish frauds at the top…revealed like the cockroaches they are.
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ruthlee says:
April 20, 2016 at 2:33 pm
Where is Jesus in all of this? The gb should be on their knees praying day and night . Ah but then they will get holes in their expensive suits. This is a truly shameful situation they find themselves in and it has nothing to do with preaching the gospel. Funny that they of all self righteous, self appointed goons should be so sidetracked from their kingdom agenda.Such an unholy alliance with slick lawyers was always going to end in tears. Slow but sure with God’s mill grind. They cannot have it both ways, either the catholic church was mother and she got her comeuppance and justice was served or this organisation is mother and the smashing instrument is about due a smashing time soon. Either way if this org is from god or the devil one thing is sure there has been a hell of a lot of child sacrifice going on over the decades and that will not do. They are acting like there is something to hide. Obviously jesus is on vacation or guiding warwick. He is not giving them any divine revelations at the moment. It is all a mess and a muddle and certainly not clean and upstanding as they profess. ruthlee
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Claire Gorman says:
April 20, 2016 at 2:39 pm
Oh deary me! Home to roost eh? Yes the world is getting worse. That I don’t deny. Yes the second coming is approaching. Of that I am a firm believer. But not in the way these Shylocks are predicting. Gods organisation, if sprit directed, would not abuse individuals, nor would it try to cover up the charges. The tower is teetering on the brink. I have had testimony from witnesses I still have contact with that Memorial numbers were down. The tower is now asking a pound of flesh on “voluntary” donations and each court case it contests will only drain the coffers further. Good luck with that!! Excellent article, keep em coming!
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Big B says:
April 20, 2016 at 2:47 pm
It’s a pitiful shame and a miscarriage of justice if the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is allowed to continue playing this “hide and seek” game with evidence that the courts need.
Frankly, if this game of theirs continues the whole bunch of these low life, Bible thumping, pedophile protecting, rat bags should be found in contempt of court with all of their assets frozen and files seized by Federal Authorities.
Just wait until this election is over this November and see whether the politicians will devote more time investigating this sham religious Millerite throwback. I know I’ll be writing my congressman and senator about it (Federal and State) with inclusions to JWsurvery.org, by God.
Thanks once again for the updates “Covert Fade”. Keep up the good work.
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Big B says:
April 20, 2016 at 3:15 pm
Oh, and jail time for contempt of court. Plenty of jail time in a Federal Penitentiary just like that sot “Judge” ‘set up another round’ Rutherford and his gang. Don’t separate them from the general population either.
After being raped a few times in the showers with no one to help them maybe, just maybe, they will learn what being a victim is and have more empathy for what they have put these child molestation victims through. That would truly be Divine Justice.
Well one can still dream, can’t one?
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Outandabout says:
April 21, 2016 at 10:40 pm
I don’t know how the American justice system works, but maybe the courts are being careful of setting a precedent if they come down too hard on these Goons.
The First Amendment is in need of amendment in order to better serve the needs of a modern society.
It’s totally ironic how the Watchtower can only exist and expand in a Democracy, but as soon as a person is snared by them, they are put under the rule of a mini dictatorship and taught to despise democracy and not only that, taught to hate the armed forces which fought and died to protect the very democracy which allows Watchtower to exist in the first place.
One of the things which has helped Watchtower to expand in the last few decades is the spread of Democracy around the world. Democratic neighbours are far less likely to go to war with each other. War is becoming un- P.C. Last Days?
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Daniel Roberts says:
April 20, 2016 at 2:58 pm
Satan would be pretty damn impressed with how insidiously sly and devious the Watchtower and it’s legal team are.
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PamelaB says:
April 20, 2016 at 9:25 pm
Wonderful article! Thank you so much for sharing! I’m still puzzled as to why these maggots in the governing body are not jailed! For all we know there is still abuse taking place right now! We need to protect the children or anyone else who is being abused! Any other organization would be dismantled fined and there would be an imprisonment imposed! They need to be shut down!!!!….Yesterday!!!!!
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gary says:
April 20, 2016 at 11:55 pm
Interestingly James 5. 1-7 indicates this would take place before the presence while Paul (2thess2) shows there would be a false presence presided over by a man of lawlessness (1914)
How scripturally lawlessis it to hide documents relating to child abuse?
My comment is directed towards those who are JWs.
Nevertheless it is a shameful situation for those who claim to adhere to biblical standards.
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gary says:
April 21, 2016 at 12:39 am
If and I say if you can get a JW to reason, and whichever point or teaching it may be, and the light comes on then the process of free thought begins and the scales, as it were, fall off.
That’s the reason I post comments from a biblical point of view and not for subversive preaching though being having a belief.
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Andrea says:
April 21, 2016 at 12:40 am
That’s very disappointing to hear. They deserved the punitive damages against them. I cannot understand how it’s ok in the US to be in contempt of court, refuse to turn up or provide documents. Losch should’ve been jailed for that and WT fined. I don’t see the problem.
The appeals court for some strange reason felt that WT needs to be cuddled into providing these documents. Why?! Just because they’re a religious organisation is no reason for them to be treated in a more privileged way than any other defendant. Just awful.
Hope Jose is up for this battle and wins, again.
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Willows says:
April 21, 2016 at 12:51 am
The case of the good Samaritan, he came across a man, beaten by robbers and left half dead by the side of the road he was travelling. Other persons also saw the beaten man. What did they do? They crossed over to the other side of the road and left the beaten man. The Samaritan man travelling the same road saw the beaten man stopped and rendered aid. Taking him to an Inn, paying the Inn-keeper accommodation for the injured man, even saying to the Inn-keeper when I return if what I have paid you is not enough I will pay the balance on my return.
Now who proved to be neighbor to the injured man. The answer, the one who rendered aid.
Give credit where credit is due, and exposed others as hypocrites. Not worthy of credit because of their actions, walking away when others are in need.
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wifibandit says:
April 21, 2016 at 12:30 pm
Does anyone know how I can obtain a copy of the full deposition of Richard Ashe, Jr.?
I have only have seen the clip used by Trey Bundy where Ashe says “ours is a spiritual protection”
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AussieneedingComfort says:
April 21, 2016 at 3:15 pm
Personally, I hope that the game afoot is that the courts are closing all loop holes that may be used in the future. By going back and offering less severe options, when the WT refuses, again, to comply with the requested documents, and the courts are compelled to use the “heavy hammer” with them, there will be no place the WT can go to avoid providing all requested documents. I am watching this case very closely and expecting that the arrogance and pride of the 7 men will out weigh any sense of decency or justice for the victims and they will go to jail “for their faith” before conceding to the requests of Caesar. At that point the truth of why they have to go to jail will cause the entire org to collapse. May just be wishful thinking on my part…but I am going to watch and see.
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AussieneedingComfort says:
April 21, 2016 at 3:17 pm
Wifibandit: https://jwleaks.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/richard-ashe-14-3-31.pdf
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wifibandit says:
April 21, 2016 at 4:46 pm
Thank you. I should have been more clear. I want the video.
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Tara says:
April 21, 2016 at 4:40 pm
Well maybe Prince will leave them something in his will RIP Prince.
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Wip it says:
April 21, 2016 at 4:53 pm
That newspaper article is very damming indeed, the rank & file will just keep saying the same thing, satanic lies & propaganda, the ship is sinking
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Tara says:
April 21, 2016 at 5:12 pm
Exactly, Wip it. There is little point saying anything to R&F until they start to see it for themselves. I don’t see anyone now as I haven’t attended a meeting since before Xmas. The elders stopped calling for my report and those that wanted to talk to me – sorry those that wanted to shepherd me got an abrupt ‘no thanks’. So I am on the bad girls list. I’ll wait my times until someone asks the right question. I store up these news reports and like to keep track just in case they want proof. But alas, journalism is a tool of satan used to spread evil lies about the saintly WT and it’s GB. Bollocks I say….. did I say that…. tisk tisk…. bad influence.
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wifibandit says:
April 21, 2016 at 5:13 pm
In the ruling, pg 47. under “3. Insufficient Evidence Showing Lösch Is a Managing Agent” the court found that Lopez failed to satisfy the 2nd (of 3) Waters factors:
“(2) can the person be expected to comply with the party’s directive to appear;”
I believe I can.
Lösch, as an individual, is a member of the World Wide Order of Special Full-time Servants. He is a member of the US Bethel family.
As such, he receives his monthly reimbursement, PEA, Health Insurance (compliance with ACA), room and board provided by US Branch (Leon Weaver et al) which is operates under the direction of the GB – as evidenced by their literature.
Also, as a member of Bethel he has had to sign a form that declares that he follow the instructions of “The Order” (see Bethel application A-8-E):
“…This means that you view special full-time service as a rare privilege that calls for whole-souled devotion and strong faith and that you are willing to accept whatever assignment you are given by the Order. (Mark 10:28-30) Such assignments could include serving as a member of a Bethel family, as a construction servant, as a full-time commuter, or in another avenue of special full-time service. …”
The oversight nature of the Governing Body over “The Order” is established in these two paragraphs at the end of the same form (A-8-E):
“This application is an expression of my personal desire to be a member of the Worldwide Order of Special Full-Time Servants of Jehovah’s Witnesses (the “Order”). If accepted, I will give my assignment of service priority over all other activities. I will be diligent in taking full advantage of the provisions for study and discussion of God’s Word that are made for members of the Order. I will also share regularly in the field service and in the meetings of the congregation that I attend. I will at all times conduct myself in full harmony with all the regulations that apply to those in special full-time service—such as matters having to do with secular work and the high standards of dress and grooming—as well as the counsel of God’s Word that applies to all Christians. I will be content and satisfied with the modest support that I receive from the Order as long as I am privileged to continue in the Order. Should I choose to leave the Order or should the Order determine that I no longer qualify to serve in the Order, I will not expect any remuneration. (Matt. 6:30-33; 1 Tim. 6:6-8; Heb. 13:5) I recognize that the Order has the right to determine if and when my
membership should be terminated.
I hereby consent to the collection and processing of my personal data necessary for the evaluation of my application to serve as a member of the Order. I further consent to the branch office of Jehovah’s Witnesses that administers the activities of Jehovah’s Witnesses in my geographic area processing and retaining for its use the information found on this application and any additional information that may be submitted in connection with my application by individuals serving as elders of Jehovah’s Witnesses or by me. I understand that the transfer of my personal data to the branch office of Jehovah’s Witnesses and to the ecclesiastical Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses (the “Governing Body”) in the state of New York, U.S.A., may be necessary for the evaluation of my application to serve as a member of the Order. I authorize the transfer to the Governing Body of the information found on this application and any additional personal information that the Governing Body
deems necessary regarding my capacity to serve as a member of the Order.”
Reply
Ready 4 to Fade says:
April 24, 2016 at 5:56 am
Thank you WiFi for all of your work in behalf of the ex JW community!
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Caleb & $ophia says:
April 21, 2016 at 9:35 pm
What a bunch of slimey, deceitful, lying snakes!
They sure know how to play their cards. This upsets me.
Justice will catch up to them. Keep up the good work Cedars.
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Caleb & $ophia says:
April 21, 2016 at 9:44 pm
Once the media in Mexico & Brazil starts publicizing these lawsuits, the victims in those countries will start coming forward with lawsuits as well. Those countries have over 700k publishers each and it stands to reason that there are many silenced abuse victims there too. Once they realize that they don’t have to suffer in silence and keep their victimization private, more trouble will hit the Watchtower Corporation and the 7 members of the GB.
So far it seems that only the USA, UK and Australia has been exposing the policies protecting pedophiles of the WT.
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Ready 4 to Fade says:
April 22, 2016 at 10:40 pm
I just finished watching the movie “Spotlight” about the Boston globe’s work on exposing the Catholic Church. Maddening that Cardinal Law was actually promoted to a new diocese in Rome, Italy. All of the fanfare around the Pope, obviously he is an improvement in his level of tolerance etc. but how can he possibly clean house to the extent needed.
I digress, sorry, the point is that it was similar internal documents in the Catholic Church that led to their exposure and over $1billion in payouts. I’m not sure of the total tally of priests that were indicted world-wide. Somehow I doubt it is 24,000 like the documents will show in the Lopez case. This could be a huge tipping point.
I recognize that the Catholic Church did not crumble entirely. There are 1 billion worldwide though, and they are in a culture that emphasizes forgiveness, not holding itself up as the “only truth.”. I don’t see JW.org weathering a similar storm quite as well.
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Ready 4 to Fade says:
April 24, 2016 at 6:05 am
I’m surprised at the lack of comments on this article. As far as I can tell in my limited understanding of the court system, and journalism in general, the release of this list of 24,000 pedophiles is the watershed moment that we are all waiting for. We as a community in the U.S. need to do as much as possible to bring attention to this case and others like it, as well as encouraging victims to come forward and seek justice. It is a long process to bring about the changes needed, or perhaps the downfall of this organization altogether, but we must not lose patience with the courts, or lose heart in general.
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Grace says:
April 24, 2016 at 2:20 pm
Ready 4 to Fade,
I think you have hit the nail on the head. I would say that because WT are so good at dragging things out that they wear the victim down but also everyone else down and they have that never-ending funnel of money that seems to come from the naive & the crooked backing them. It’s just seems so overwhelming at times.
It’s people like the activists on this website and others that keep this thing alive that helps reinvigorate. I hope that they don’t tire out. I’m only spreading the word here in my little town from my doctor to all of my new found friends (just about anyone that will listen) & they apparently are spreading the word too. My (worldly) niece has come on board & has a friend that is doing a journalism piece about xjw’s in Melbourne. So the truth about this criminal organisation is getting out there, it’s just a slow turning big wheel.
Good on you Lloyd, you put up with so much crap from others that get jealous but you seem to keep focussed. Your writers put up with crap too but they seem fight on. Kudos to you all & thank you again for all of your hard work!!!
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Tara says:
April 24, 2016 at 6:12 pm
I would hope here in Canada a similar thing may happen as it is a Commonwealth country, but so far there isn’t even a ripple.
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Grace says:
April 24, 2016 at 7:55 pm
Good to see another case going ahead putting the pressure on the WT.
http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2016/apr/24/ticker-tough-build-jehovahs-witness-sex-abuse-case/#
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Superstar Prince Pronounced Dead: World in Shock Over Passing of Celebrity Jehovah’s Witness
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Posted on April 21, 2016
April 22nd, 2016
Seldom does the death of one individual captivate the news so completely as when a superbly talented, musically gifted, and internationally beloved icon such as Prince loses his life. What would be a routine day of reporting of the U.S. Presidential race, international conflicts, and earthquake relief work has become a media spectacle, cornering all of the major news outlets including CNN and BBC.
For Jehovah’s Witnesses, the death of Prince comes with a mixed bag of emotions due to the controversial and mysterious nature of the converted JW pop star. While many Witnesses embrace the fact that such a gifted individual would accept their fundamentalist faith, other Witnesses despise his behavior and view his entire body of work as evidence of Satan’s influence in the entertainment industry.
This polarization of attitudes towards the few Jehovah’s Witnesses who have achieved worldwide fame reveals that the Watchtower organization is not really quite sure what to make of these individuals. While Scientology openly embraces and heaps accolades on its well-known celebrities like Tom Cruise and John Travolta, Jehovah’s Witnesses take a more subdued approach to fame, preferring to name-drop B-rated scientists who support creationism.
larrygrahamawake
February 22nd 1989 Awake! Magazine
There are some exceptions to this, most notably Watchtower’s 1989 life story of Larry Graham, the
man responsible for Prince’s conversion to the JW religion. Larry Graham’s life journey in becoming one of Jehovah’s Witnesses was featured in the February 22nd 1989 issue of the Awake! magazine, published by the Watchtower organization.
While Witness publications almost never feature persons of fame, Larry Graham was an exception to this policy, primarily due to his extraordinary devotion to the faith, and the fact that he became a full-time “pioneer” minister for Jehovah’s Witnesses as well as an elder in the congregation. As a result of his evangelical nature, coupled with his connection to many prominent musicians, he was able to get the attention of Prince Rogers Nelson, or as we know him, Prince.
larrygrahamfamily
Larry Graham and Family at the Kingdom Hall
By the year 2001, Prince had accepted the faith of his close friend Graham, replacing his prior beliefs which included membership in the Seventh Day Adventist church. As Graham’s spiritual protegé, he publicly cast off the celebration of birthdays, voting, and embraced Jehovah’s Witnesses’ bizarre ban on life-saving blood transfusions. He even accompanied Graham in the public ministry, knocking on doors, counting his time. But make no mistake, Prince was not about to throw away the only thing which made Prince Prince, his explosive imagination, creativity and genius musical talent which could not be contained inside the stagnant four walls of a Kingdom Hall.
His career continued, mildly subdued by the religion, but never irreversibly stifled by the rigid rules of Watchtower’s invasive Governing Body. And this was in fact the reason Prince was such a controversial figure among Jehovah’s Witnesses. Just as with one-time Jehovah’s Witness Michael Jackson, the musical products of Prince divided Witnesses into two camps: one which admired his music and bragged about his affiliation with the organization, and the other which labeled him as a despicable hypocrite whose sexually permissive appearance and lyrics disgraced the holy and conservative beliefs of the JW organization.
By the time Prince had become a Witness, Michael Jackson had already left the religion, but not before being coerced into a public apology for his music video Thriller, which the Awake! magazine connected with spiritism. In the May 1984 Awake! publication, Jackson was quoted as saying:
“I would never do it again”.
While Jackson died in complete disgrace among Witnesses as a disassociated member, Prince somehow managed to avoid judicial punishment and ostracism for his questionable lifestyle, as his music, associates, and actions were the polar opposite of the ultra-conservative JW beliefs.
Prince died at a terribly young age. Speculations as to the cause of his death are spreading like gangrene, and are useless in the face of the reality that we have lost yet another entertainment genius, and we won’t get him back. The intersection of his life with that of the Jehovah’s Witness religion raises many questions which might not be answered for quite some time. Until then, we can only comment on what we know, and what Prince said.
For a brilliant and thoughtful review of the passing of Prince Rogers Nelson, please view the following video produced by Lloyd Evans, senior editor for JW Survey:
John Redwood
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154 Responses to Superstar Prince Pronounced Dead: World in Shock Over Passing of Celebrity Jehovah’s Witness
Newer Comments →
AARON says:
April 21, 2016 at 10:48 pm
I am wondering if there’ll a funeral talk for Prince.
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John Walsh says:
April 21, 2016 at 11:19 pm
I think the fact that Prince became a J-Dub shows that like the rest of us, he is vulnerable to indoctrination and propaganda when he was feeling somewhat lost in life, and who should come along, but a friend and fellow artist, so immediately his friendship strengthens, and to top it off a new way of life and direction and membership to a club, a religious club.
He was fortunate in that he was not indoctrinated from birth as many were/are, and that shows in his life, where he was never going to allow it to take over his life completely, to the contrary he somewhat kept it in it’s place and continued with his form of art, maintaining his mate-ship at the same time.
Outside of his art, I saw a vulnerable young man who lost his Dad and needing some direction and guidance from someone older.
RIP Prince.
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Hip hip hooray I'm an ex says:
April 22, 2016 at 5:02 am
I think a point people miss or gloss over is the fact he converted from Seventh Day Adventism to Jehovah’s Witnesses. Looking at the history of the Borg, Russell was heavily influenced by the Adventists, to put it mildly.
When I was researching things after leaving, it seems to me the writing committee is still looking to the Adventists for explaining certain doctrine, such as the Flood.
If that’s the case, I can see why Prince wouldn’t see a radical difference between the two, but would consider it a natural awakening.
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Chuck Baby says:
April 24, 2016 at 2:13 am
Hello, I’m always saddened but anybody’s death, so, it is with ‘prince’. I’m here in Australia. Your’e comments about ‘prince’ and Jehovah’s Witnesses, to me betray that you have a bitter, cold & different agenda & motive. You have babbled some nonsense, in accord with you’re lack of ‘ common sense’ and lack of real loving concern for others. But, that is your opinion, and this is mine.
Cheerio from Chuck Baby in Australia
(Jazz player/ 4 string electric Bass guitar).
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Jaak says:
April 21, 2016 at 11:51 pm
As a Mather of fact, blood kills people, I know many many persons who survived an operation without blood. And I know many persons who did get blood and they died under surgery!
Well that is the story all witnesses tell me.
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dee2 says:
April 22, 2016 at 6:44 am
“Well that is the story all witnesses tell me.”
Have you spoken to any medical professionals about this or done your own research?
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Holy Connoli says:
April 22, 2016 at 5:18 pm
Jaak. I know plenty of people who have survived without an operation that some doctors said was needed.I know some people who have died also from having operations. That doesn’t mean blood transfusions kill does it? It only means SOME peole got away without having one that is all. Look at how many have survived by having a needed blood transfusion. If you look at the odds so many more people will survive with a blood transfusion than without one.I knew a JW family who told me their uncle in the 1960’s refused a coranory transplant and went blind bc the WT said body transplants were equal to cannibalism. So he was blind the rest of his life. Then the WT changed their view and said ooops! We were wrong. Go ahead and get your transplants. He was left with extreme deprsiion and the only thing they could say is oh well, we tried to do the right thing and he will have perfect vision in the New World! Can you believe that?
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Charles Nketsiah says:
April 23, 2016 at 9:21 am
HAHAHAHA
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Mike B says:
April 22, 2016 at 7:39 pm
Well, the bulk of surgery is performed without the need for blood so it’s really not a surprise that ‘many, many’ people can tell you they had surgery without it.
When the medical profession deem the risk associated with blood is less than that of refusing, you have less anecdotes to hear since the surviving patients are far fewer.
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Peter van der Brink says:
April 21, 2016 at 11:57 pm
Prince was not indoctrinated and spoiled by youth as the most JWs and ex-JWs are. He was fortunate and did what he want.He died with an overdosis of drugs, according Dutch newsmagazines. Personally have no any feelings and emotions by this guy and his 50cm high “Antony Morris III”shoes….
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ruthlee says:
April 22, 2016 at 12:37 am
I never knew what to make of Prince’s conversion and I still don’t know what to make of it. It seems to me that this initial hook of this religion does genuinely tap into a need of some very talented folk. Prince included. I think it maybe that deep fear of death which this religion dangles the promise of never dying to its victims. The problem is that unless you get fully involved the promise of paradise eventually evaporates and people go back to doing what they are best at. So for Prince that would be his creative genius. Interestingly these uberrock stars with such influence on the minds of many generations span do not contribute to a mass conversion of their loyal fans in fact generally the fans forgive them their whacky beliefs and put it down to a quirky diversion. I think it is interesting he had his roots in 7Dadv yet another odd breakaway religion with similar doctrines to jws.The man will be missed and his music will inspire a new generation and spark the creative genius in others but his religion will not, that will be consigned to the bin of obscurity because his genius shone through in spite of his religion not because of it. Ruthlee
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Blushing ex elder says:
April 22, 2016 at 2:56 am
I too was always confused by the lifestyles of so called celebrity JW’s. What does god really demand of those who would be acceptable to him, according to the GB? Try wearing Prince style clothes to your next meeting and see how quickly you are hauled into the back room for a quiet little ‘tight pants’ chat. It seems that artists of the level of this man have great imagination, a willingness to mentally explore different propositions and ‘the truth’ can, on initial examination, capture the mind or provide a form of solace. No one knows for sure what he thought or why, but there appears little doubt that he was treated differently from how others would be viewed if they suddenly adopted his ‘acceptable’ lifestyle as a JW. A brilliant musician and performer and a great loss to the world of entertainment.
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ruthlee says:
April 22, 2016 at 12:40 am
P.S. My husband volunteers to do the funeral talk. Now that will be a talk I hope they televise on the monthly broadcast!!!! Ruthlee
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Emily says:
April 23, 2016 at 9:36 am
Really? Now Sister princess dad shouldn’t be any different than any other deaths that happened. It is sad that he is an artist but God’s people are equal We Are All God’s Children and we should be treated as equal. Just because he is famous and makes a lot of money makes you no different than anyone who is poor. As long as those who put Kingdom interest first will be honored by God.
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ruthlee says:
April 24, 2016 at 12:03 pm
Emily My comment was ironic as those who know me . ruthlee
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Freed Mason says:
April 22, 2016 at 2:16 am
A Legend that transcended the limiting world view of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society and other man made interventions, RIP Prince Rogers Nelson.
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Fooledmeonce says:
April 22, 2016 at 4:13 am
Prince described his learning ‘The Truth’ like the character Neo, in The Matrix. Neo takes a pill and wakes up to the fact that he was living inside of a computer program.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses spin a pretty good story too and it hooked all of us reading this website, at one time. Just like any religion or cult, there are answers given to some deep questions and it seems to make sense in some weird way.
The real ‘beauty’ to the Jehovah’s Witness-story is that it changes over time! The Watchtower will rewrite their history and cover over any embarrassing episodes.
Prince trusted his friend, Larry Graham, most of all. I’m sure that everyone who got sucked into our own ‘JW-Matrix’ had a trusted friend or relative that we followed blindly. Now with anyone being able to quickly search sites like this, and to talk with ex members, it is going to be very hard to suck anyone else into the Governing Body’s little Matrix of lies!
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Holy Connoli says:
April 22, 2016 at 6:31 pm
Foldmeonce. In the late 1980’s I was going to do some “missionary” work in the Bahamas with some local JW’s in the San Fransisco area. Larry Graham was part of the group. He came to my house and was a very nice guy. He was a real guy and we were all excited about our trip.Then the group leader approached us all and said the WT Society did not approve our trip and it was not an “AUTHORIZED” Wt approved group and squashed us! This was after we had all purchased our tickets and rental etc. Everyone was bummed and SO DISAPPOINTED. I did get my airfare $$ back. I am not sure If Larry GRaham is still a devoted JW or if he is having an awakening or not.
I am not a Big Prince fan but it seems a lot of people like his music.
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Garrett says:
April 22, 2016 at 8:37 pm
Larry is still a very active witness. He and Tina are wonderful people and are friends with my mother: I have nothing but good to say about this man.
What a sad thing it is that so many quality people are duped into this cult . That is precisely why it must fall.
Garrett
Minneapolis
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Will says:
April 23, 2016 at 6:09 am
I wonder how many witnesses were “stumbled” because he referenced a rate R movie? Also, I wonder if he was counseled about referring himself to that character instead of a biblical character.
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Nemorino says:
April 22, 2016 at 5:52 am
Truly sad; he wasa supremely talented yet was to all appearances genuinely kind, gentle soul.
I wonder what, if anything, JW Broadcast will make of this story.
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Tara says:
April 22, 2016 at 5:56 am
This am my fb page is full of tributes to Prince and then there are the witness ones – ‘See you in paradise brother Prince’, ‘Brother Prince makes it into paradise….’. Makes me want to puke.
Will the GB be rubbing their hands hoping for a hand out? Did brother Prince – whom we all respected and loved, leave us his dosh?
Sorry. I am sad at his death but the WT attitude makes me want to vomit. Amazing how many JW’s are suddenly ‘into’ his music.
RIP Prince
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Holy Connoli says:
April 22, 2016 at 6:42 pm
Tara. Look at this Site that says the WT may inherit Princes $300 Million dollars? Will they take money from someone who made it promoting sexual immorality, transgender life styles, Gay life style and
most all his songs were based on SEX , drugs and Rock and roll. We know the WT owns stock in Boeing and other companies that produce military weapons and other stocks that produce things they preach against. Look at this Article and see if they have their hand out?
yes, they will take the immoral money.http://dailym.ai/1VpGXOg
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Tara says:
April 22, 2016 at 8:38 pm
I have no doubt they will make it work for themselves. I am sure they are rubbing their hands together right now and getting their lawyers to work out how they can twist it so they come out on top. Shame on them. Someone posted, not too long back the shares they had bequeathed to them by a sister… I cannot remember her name. Made interesting reading. No they won’t think twice about excepting anything coming from the estate of Prince.
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Tara says:
April 22, 2016 at 8:52 pm
Henrietta Riley trust! that’s the one I was thinking of. Check out what the WT has used Bonds, Stocks and Shares for. They won’t think twice about money from Prince.
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Winston Smith says:
April 23, 2016 at 5:31 am
The article indicates that the Watchtower could inherit Prince’s music rights. I hadn’t thought of that. What a shame it would be if they just sat on all his “worldly” music and did not allow it to be made public. But of course if there is money to be made from it they probably won’t have a problem letting it be published.
WS
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Tara says:
April 23, 2016 at 6:04 am
Unless they decided that it was satanic and burnt the lot. I think
Prince would have thought of that. He knew the value of his work unless he was prepared to let it be destroyed, after all he would know the old adage, ‘you can’t take it with you’.
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Michele says:
April 24, 2016 at 12:18 pm
According to Kevin Smith’s YouTube video on Prince, he has 50 or so original music videos/songs unreleased in his vault. Maybe Watchtower will inherit and become a record label too. Hey why not. They already have their television studio.
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Emily says:
April 23, 2016 at 9:43 am
You sound like a very angry person I feel very sorry for you it doesn’t matter what someone chooses as their religion its what they do in life. Prince does not know you nor do you know any celebrity probably. But that being said you are allowed to live your life the way you want and so should other people just show some respect. When the day comes when it matters the truth will be known you will not be puking then you will be surprised beyond your wildest dream.
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Winston Smith says:
April 23, 2016 at 10:08 am
@Emily
Not sure who your comments were directed at. As far as being angry, I have found that I am able to have a much calmer and easy going disposition since leaving the JW cult. I don’t think anyone here in this chain of posts is voicing any kind of anger or hatefulness. From experience we all just know what the JW cult is capable of and we are speculating how they may use this man’s fame and fortune to their own ends and out of harmony with the type of person he was.
WS
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Tara says:
April 23, 2016 at 10:31 am
No Emily. If you mean me, I’m not angry and I am actually related to some very famous people. That being said I just find it very disturbing that so many witnesses are jumping on the bandwagon. My fb page has been inundated with brothers and sisters saying things like ‘dear brother prince has made it into the new system… he is in paradise’. No one knows who will be in the new system so no one has the right to say that. For all we know Lemmie will be there because he had a good heart. So again, no, I’m not angry in fact, I am less stressed and anxious since I stopped attending meetings.
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Tracey says:
April 23, 2016 at 12:23 pm
I agree. Who are u all to be judging Prince or even the faith of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. One day very soon the TRUTH will be revealed. I long for that day. And no one has made it to paradise yet as paradise is yet to come. All our loved ones are asleep in death awaiting a resurrection.
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Outandabout says:
April 23, 2016 at 9:48 pm
ah, yes, Tracey….the resurrection. Is that the one where you wake up in a theme park patting lions, cuddling panda’s, swimming with toothless sharks, seeing the snakes lying there with a bale of hay inside them and maybe a crocodile coming up on the river bank, flipping on it’s side, grabbing a blade of grass and giving it the death roll? You don’t age or marry anymore so there won’t be any babies, I guess. Isn’t having children and raising them to be decent people the absolute purpose of being us? Without that, what have we got?
We’re all disgusted when in the news we read of yet another estranged man murdering his wife or partner and no doubt it gets JW’s going “tsk tsk, another sign!” But what is that estranged man actually saying by committing such an act? He’s saying, “well if you don’t love me then I will kill you” Why is it that when a man does that once it’s soooooo terrible, but absolutely so correct and just when the Jehovah thug does it 7 billion times? See how the cult has disconnected you from your conscience? That’s how cults work and how they get you to accept as gospel anything they wish to. You’re under their spell. Good luck with your choice.
You do realise that the paradise won’t start to come about until the U.N. attacks the churches. The Queen is more likely to come out as being gay before that happens. Part of the U.N. charter is to protect human rights and that includes the right to worship whoever they wish. Not bad for a ‘worldly’ organisation, aye?
dee2 says:
April 24, 2016 at 9:38 am
@Tracey:
“All our loved ones are asleep in death awaiting a resurrection.”
Persons are taught to believe in a resurrection because Jesus Christ showed that this was possible when he died and was resurrected from the dead.
What historical proof do you have that Jesus Christ was in fact resurrected from the dead?
Tracey says:
April 23, 2016 at 12:20 pm
I agree. Who are u all to be judging Prince or even the faith of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. One day very soon the TRUTH will be revealed. I long for that day.
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Tracey says:
April 24, 2016 at 2:05 am
Let’s talk again when these things start taking place.
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Winston Smith says:
April 22, 2016 at 6:11 am
At this point there is no cause of death known. I am not suggesting anything of the kind, but if it did turn out that the cause was drug related or some other similar issue, I wonder if the Watchtower will try to distance themselves from Prince and say he wasn’t really an active member. This would be similar to what they said about Michael Jackson around the time of the Thriller Video.
WS
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Tara says:
April 22, 2016 at 7:09 am
Of course they will distance themselves. Unless there is a big wad of money in it for them. We won’t find out which way they will turn until after the will is read. The autopsy is set for today…. if next week they announce it was a tragic illness then they will except any handouts ASAP but if next week they say it was down to drugs or something else then they will have to be careful how they go about excepting donations. We will see the hypocrisy, don’t you worry about it.
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Free Thinker says:
April 22, 2016 at 7:55 am
We’ll take his cash, but him we bash – in other words: Pecunia non olet.
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Will says:
April 22, 2016 at 12:03 pm
The rumor is that he was addicted to pain killers. WT will distance themselves from this if it’s true. He was a true genius. His music was part of my teenage years and his death is devastating. Like someone mentioned before, Prince had daddy issues and that’s what attracted him to the religion. That was mine. Also, Prince lost a child and tragedy opens you up to cults. I’m sure the resurrection “hope” was dangled before him.
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Gameisover says:
April 23, 2016 at 8:25 pm
I lost a child. The promise I would see her,
In the flesh, very soon, because the end was imminent, the twisted scriptures proving this, is the only reason I embraced this cult. I truly believed it. For nearly 50 years.
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Erik says:
April 22, 2016 at 6:23 am
Prince’s only child died as a baby, how heart-breaking. Great tragedies can cause us to yearn for more satisfying answers.
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SDL says:
April 22, 2016 at 6:44 pm
Yes. And the lucrative business of religion ‘preys’ upon such vulnerabilities.
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nullandvoidboy says:
April 22, 2016 at 6:55 am
The sad thing….or good thing for Princes sake, is that he led a totally insulated life from the garbage that’e espoused at a kingdom hall….he had a mentor…and that was it….could you imagine going to the hall, dressed as he would….you think you’d get a way with that? So he never was marginalized, or felt disenfranchised….he did not really experience being a jw….totally insulated from the day to day crap
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idkwhattocallmyself says:
April 22, 2016 at 9:03 am
Actually he did go to the king-dumb hall, a bit toned down, but I remember him wearing a fancy white suit, with tight pants and he definitely wore platform shoes. He was famous so he definitely got special treatment. I’m sure they wanted his donations. He attended my old congregation back in the early 2000’s as well as Chanhassen, the closest one to Paisley Park. No elder in either of those halls would have the cajones to council Prince on his dress and grooming…
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Ready 4 to Fade says:
April 22, 2016 at 12:12 pm
There were multiple stories about him touring Brooklyn Bethel in the late 90’s early 2000’s as well.
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peggy says:
April 22, 2016 at 7:17 am
I am sorry to hear about Prince as I was a big fan of his music. As a kid raised by JW parents, I always got a lecture about Satan’s worldly debased music. Music that leads one away from high moral standards. I never listened to their rants and kept my music. And if I were a talented musician and wanted to be a rock star and make $$$ and have adoring fans, and wear sexy tight clothes, well, my parents and local elders would have kicked me to the curb. How did he manage it? He never seemed the picture of a Watchtower JW. He was an exception. I guess.
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Darlene says:
April 22, 2016 at 8:09 am
I’m sure he was an exception to the rules of the wt because of the monetary contributions he probably banked for them. Just like most of us, if that had been us in the norm, we would have been kicked out immediately.
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Michele says:
April 24, 2016 at 12:25 pm
I was thinking the same thing.
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Cherie says:
April 22, 2016 at 7:49 am
I remember the Larry Graham article in the Awake! well. The funny thing about our society today is that when someone dies, s/he is automatically elevated up. Everyone gets caught up in the emotion because of all the attention. The witnesses are no different. However, we have to be careful when it comes to public figures and celebrities. We do not know them personally. Like my late mother used to say, “I’m always careful to say, ‘I like him/her as an actor or a singer,’ because we don’t know what they are like in real life.” Of course, we feel sad when a life is suddenly cut short. I appreciated the approach Lloyd took in his video.
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Erik says:
April 22, 2016 at 7:54 am
we don’t see the video…?
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Erik says:
April 22, 2016 at 8:33 am
ohp! now I do, sorry…
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Darlene says:
April 22, 2016 at 8:06 am
I sure hope and pray that Prince didn’t have the wt org as his beneficiary!
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Roman Castañeda says:
April 22, 2016 at 8:35 pm
That’s my concern too. The idea even came to me, that the watchtower poisoned him after he sign a petition for them to keep a certain percentage of his property’s worth. That way they could use that money to pay off the child abuse cases in silence and bring less attention to themselves from the media. Even the righteous find reasons to justify murdering someone.
Then again, I tend to over think
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Stephen Godfrey says:
April 22, 2016 at 8:39 am
Anyone who was a JW from my generation (the birth of rock & roll) knows perfectly well that no “brother” could get away with dressing or presenting as Prince did. He would never have been accepted as a baptismal candidate. Any such “interested one” would be “marked” by the elders as someone the congregation needed to be wary of. Striving for a rock or pop music career would have triggered serious counseling. How Prince and the ridiculous Jackson clan got away with being quite literally beyond “worldly” are mind-boggling examples of Watchtower hypocrisy.
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Doc Obvious says:
April 22, 2016 at 11:17 am
They had millions of dollars and can sue the Watchtower for everything they have if Watchtower got out of hand. Much different situation, if you only make between 10 and 15 USD per hour. In addition, they were a celebrity and had a lot of pull from Presidents and other governmental authorities. Watchtower could not rock the boat on these types.
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Searcher says:
April 22, 2016 at 9:31 am
Prince was like Mozart. He was a genius of music. From what I gather, he seemed to be a very gentle and sensitive person. Yeah, he was different in many ways. Most true genius artists are cut of such a cloth and that’s a good thing. Being a radically different personality usually helps creativity and genius. I really liked his music and style. He’ll be missed by many.
Reply
Candlestick says:
April 22, 2016 at 9:33 am
I was talking to my JW mom on the phone last night. Of course, this came up. I’m like ‘mom, did you know that Prince was a JW?’ — and she quickly went ‘ahhh.. i don’t really know about that; not with his lifestyle. Only Jehovah really knows.’ — yeah, special treatment indeed. Noone else gets that ‘benefit of the doubt’. They accept you as a faithful sheep that does everything they say, or you’re out. RIP, Prince.
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Cherie says:
April 22, 2016 at 9:42 am
When I was in the org during the late ’80s, I remember a lot of witnesses tuning out his music because their “bible trained consciences” would not allow them to listen to sexy lyrics. They would change the radio channel if one of his songs came on. I also knew sisters who would not take aerobics classes at the community center because there was a chance they might play Prince or Michael Jackson’s songs.
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Will says:
April 23, 2016 at 5:55 am
I remember a “brother” changing the radio station when George Michael’s “Too Funky” came on and was thinking to my self, “Hey, I like that song. Oh well, I have the song and remixes at home. I’ll listen to it later.”
Reply
Twmack says:
April 22, 2016 at 10:27 am
I don’t know anything about his music. Not my generation.
But I do know about arthritis, it’s excruciatingly painful.
I understand Prince needed two hip replacements but was
having a problem getting the operation performed without
blood .
Just a few days ago he was taken to hospital and was given
an injection which was an antidote for opiate overdose.
Purely speculation on my part but the opiates could have
been taken to dull arthritis pain. Any one whose afflicted
by this disease knows there’s hardly anything you wouldn’t
take to get relief.
I feel sorry for him, as I do for anyone whose mind gets messed
up, by being drawn into the jw snake pit.
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Doc Obvious says:
April 22, 2016 at 11:10 am
Prince did wear tight fitting pants. Maybe Anthony Morris III sent out his SS guards to monitor the situation. Prince could not take much more of this and found himself in a catch-22. This could have been the last straw. We will wait and see when the autopsy report comes back.
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Pascal says:
April 22, 2016 at 12:05 pm
I just read from the daily mail. “Speculation suggests Prince’s money – and huge estate – could now be left to the Jehovah’s Witnesses church he attended for nearly 15 years.
Kingdom Hall in Chanhassen – hidden behind a line of trees less than half a mile from the Prince’s property – is said to be where the singer went to after converting to the faith in 2001.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3553720/Unmarried-no-children-Jehovah-s-Witnesses-church-Prince-s-family-inherit-300m-fortune-sprawling-Minnesota-mansion-unreleased-music-century.html#ixzz46aFX2TBB
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Pascal says:
April 22, 2016 at 12:09 pm
Most likely, Prince’s death is going to turn into a potential ‘windfall’ for the Watchtower. Please, does any one know if Prince did leave a will?
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ian york says:
April 22, 2016 at 2:04 pm
I recall a stalwart pioneer telling me how he threw out his Abba collection following a district convention talk on ‘worldly’ music. By non-JW standards Prince was risqué, so the seeming absence of condemnation when he was alive and performing his catalogue, and the posts of condolences by JWs is nauseating. If the GB have no qualms about putting millions of dollars in the financial cesspits that are hedge funds, I can’t see them turning their noses up at Prince’s will, if he has left any to them, and it’s not contested by family members.
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John Merriman says:
April 22, 2016 at 2:42 pm
Sorry folks if the truth be known….basically he was a hypocrite like a all mega star and run of the mill Jehovah’s Witnesses. Loved the “world” and all it had to offer. End of story!
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Darlene says:
April 23, 2016 at 8:19 pm
I agree!
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CaptainmyCaptain says:
April 22, 2016 at 3:37 pm
Surely if his estate is left to the Organization and his parents, it will have been a blessing from above. Just like sand from a hurricane. There has got to be a way they will spin it. It was meant to be.
And I have to agree with some of the first posts on this article about the similarities between the 7th Day Adventists and JW’s. I was in Savannah, Georgia, USA, and walking around a historic area, and there was a huge cathedral, and right out in front, under the words Seventh Day Adventist was the word JEHOVAH, engraved in the marble. So there are a lot of similarities between the two beliefs.
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H.K. Fauskanger says:
April 23, 2016 at 3:50 am
Ellen White, the great Seventh-Day Adventist prophetess, actually uses the name Jehovah quite frequently in her writings. Also, her magnum opus “The Great Controversy” is written from pretty much the same perspective as much of Watchtower literature: All of history is a grand experiment tolerated by God, Satan being allowed to rule for a while, so that it will become evident to all righteous people how detestable sin is. After Satan’s rule has been shown to be a failure, God will judge the world. The unsaved do not go to hell, but are simply annihilated.
Sounds familiar?
When I read “The Great Controversy”, it struck me that there were entire chapters that could — except for a few sentences — just as well come from a Watchtower book.
Nevertheless, Ellen White is sometimes condemned in Watchtower literature, mainly because her genitals had the wrong configuration for a leading religious figure. The ideological debt is rarely acknowledged, though Russell apparently did say that he learned much from the Adventists.
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dee2 says:
April 23, 2016 at 8:33 am
“The Great Controversy”………interesting magnum opus of Ellen G. White which has influenced WT doctrine.
According to the Bible Adam and Eve did not know right from wrong when they sinned, they did not know good from evil until AFTER they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It was only AFTER the two ate from the forbidden tree that they developed a moral sense yet in a huff God decided that he would let Satan rule in his stead for a while?
Why didn’t God allow Adam & Eve to die in the very day that they ate the forbidden fruit just like he promised so that they wouldn’t pass on sin to their descendants?
According to the bible God destroyed all the wicked persons during the flood of Noah’s day and left only the righteous. Couldn’t God have done similarly with Adam & Eve? Couldn’t he have put Adam & Eve to death and keep repeating the process until he found a human pair who would obey before allowing them to have children and sin to enter the world?
Couldn’t God have prevented evil from entering the earth in the first place in the case of Adam and Eve and still leave free will in tact? Sin entered the world because God chose to put the tree of the knowledge of good and bad where Adam and Eve, who at the time had no concept of good and evil, could access it. Had God chosen to put the tree out of Adam’s and Eve’s reach, no fruit eaten and thus sin does not enter, while leaving free will intact. God could also have chosen not to make that tree at all too. After all, being all-knowing, God would have known the choice Adam and Eve were going to make especially given the fact that they were lacking in moral sense and did not know how to distinguish between right and wrong, good and evil.
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dee2 says:
April 23, 2016 at 12:32 pm
So God had a few options from which he could choose in order to prevent sin from entering the world. Yet God chose to let sin in just so that there could be a “Great Controversy” so that Ellen G. White could write a magnum opus about it and the WT could derive it’s theology from White’s magnum opus. YAAY God!
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Michele says:
April 22, 2016 at 4:16 pm
Iam so happy he found Jehovah! Love & prayers to his family & Friends
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John Merriman says:
April 22, 2016 at 7:14 pm
Are you sure Jehovah did’nt find him? What a fine example of what a JW represents. Sets a standard for all witnesses who want to gain Jehovah’s approval. Sophie & Caleb take note.
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Emily says:
April 23, 2016 at 4:33 pm
Amen
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Daniel Roberts says:
April 22, 2016 at 4:19 pm
Prince and the new power ‘overlapping’ generation.
Other famous J-Dubs include:
Hank Marvin
George Benson
Michael Jackson ‘s mum
And….
Delroy Grant (Rapist and murderer of the elderly)
Rose West (child rapist, torturer and killer)
These last two are apparently more deserving of eternity as Gardeners, than anyone who reads and comments on this site.
RIP Prince. You were wicked. (In a totally righteous way)
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Kat says:
April 22, 2016 at 5:48 pm
Was Prince a baptised JW or an unbaptised publisher?
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Isawthelight says:
April 22, 2016 at 7:53 pm
You can bet your wife and home that the watchtower is waiting for the reading of Prince’s will.They are more concerned about what is in his will for them.They already have their legal department on alert. They are like a bunch of greedy vulchers when it comes to money. watch out.
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Bruce says:
April 22, 2016 at 8:23 pm
And you know this? How? may i ask
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Garrett says:
April 22, 2016 at 8:54 pm
Bruce
Pull yer head outa yer ass…. The governing body knowingly and willingly allow child molesters to run hidden amongst the congregations without announcement from the platform because what they really care about is image and making sure incidents of child molestation don’t wind up in the media or courts where they could lose millions.
Do your research!
G
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ian york says:
April 23, 2016 at 5:41 am
Bruce,
It’s all about previous form, which is very convincing: Sell your principles when it’s too hot, eg blood fractions, UN affiliation, lying on oath at the Australian royal commission, investing in hedge funds, begging for money, overlapping generations etc. How much evidence do you need before you see that this doomsday cult that’s been shouting the end of times is just around the corner – for over a hundred years! – is a man-made, man run racket.
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Tracey says:
April 24, 2016 at 1:56 am
Does not the bible itself says the end is near? You don’t have to be a JW to know we living in the last days. Many people I know believe this and they not witnesses. It is inevitable.
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dee2 says:
April 24, 2016 at 7:19 am
@Tracey:
“Does not the bible itself says the end is near?”
Where does the Bible state this?
“You don’t have to be a JW to know we living in the last days.”
What proof do you have that we are living in the last days?
“Many people I know believe this and they not witnesses. It is inevitable.”
There are also many people who believe that we are NOT living in the last days – this includes Christians who believe in Preterism.
dee2 says:
April 24, 2016 at 7:29 am
******………this includes Christians who believe in Preterism AND NO MILLENNIALISM.
Tracey says:
April 23, 2016 at 12:09 pm
Lloyd you clearly never paid attention when you attended the meetings of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Nothing is done for the Governing body. We are guided by the bible. So when Jehovah’s witnesses don’t take blood it’s not because the governing body says so but because the bible says so which is inspired by Jehovah God.
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ian york says:
April 23, 2016 at 2:40 pm
Tracey,
The bible is purportedly God’s word, so why can it be interpreted in so many, sometimes, conflicted, ways by so many scholars? The bible doesn’t really prohibit blood transfusions, but the first century christians upheld one of the 1500 BC commandments not to eat blood as a concession to first century Jews converting to Christianity, who, along with circumcision, could not let go of all the literal dos and don’ts that the hundreds of commandments which they slavishly lived by which Jesus made redundant. The GB wrote this ‘law’ for so called modern day christians as applied to medical treatment. And what about blood fractions? Where in your bible does it say blood products ARE allowed as medical treatment provided they are small parts of whole blood? And why was this ‘truth’ not seen until the mid 90s? This is not clarification of scripture, but changes to an interpretation invented by a group of men wanting ‘product differentiation ‘. The sacrifice is needless and totally unscriptural. I am a baptized JW, but I could not stomach the shift in system of faith from following Jesus and worshipping God, to following the GB and worshipping the organization. It happened so gradually that people like you either didn’t notice it, or inherited it. You need to think more and obey less.
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Grace says:
April 23, 2016 at 9:02 pm
Tracey,
If only we could all be so naive like you. If you took a blood transfusion & the Elders found out about it. What do you think would happen to you? Think about it.
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Tracey says:
April 23, 2016 at 10:29 pm
Firstly I would never take a blood transfusion. And it’s not about fearing the elders. At the end of the day we have to answer to God. The elders are there to Shepherd the flock. Grace the truth will be revealed.
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Grace says:
April 23, 2016 at 11:41 pm
Tracey,
Yes, the truth is being revealed. Every day in the newspapers the world is getting to know how dangerous this religion is to people & how tight a grip they have over people with personal medical decisions like blood.
Winston Smith says:
April 23, 2016 at 8:52 pm
Since you feel it is biblically wrong to use a blood transfusion to save someone’s life, I suppose it was also wrong for Jesus to heal on the sabbath. After all that’s the letter of the law. If that’s the way your read your bible then you have totally missed the point. Christ taught that life was more important than the letter of the law. He told the Pharisees ‘who would not rescue his son if he fell into a pit on the sabbath?’ Even the rabbis have a standard called picuah nephesh – translation ‘life overrides law.’
WS
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Tracey says:
April 24, 2016 at 1:49 am
Grace do you believe in the bible? Do you consider yourself a Christian? If you do then you know the Truth will be revealed.
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Grace says:
April 24, 2016 at 2:01 pm
Tracey,
Your version of the truth is different to so many others on this planet that believe in the Bible yet all believe that they have the “truth”. Each belief system picks what they want from the Bible to create their ideology.
This religion is bases its doctrine on many non-scriptual rules so whether I believe in the Bible or not has not a lot to do with this religion being the “truth”.
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Grace says:
April 24, 2016 at 2:04 pm
Sorry about that last paragraph its meant to make sense but it’s 5 am here in Australia;)
John Redwood says:
April 24, 2016 at 11:23 am
Tracey, LLoyd paid attention very well, and he thought deeply about what he was being taught, which is why he was ultimately able to break free of the indoctrination. The Governing Body was preceded by several key men in the JW organization, including Nathan Knorr and JF Rutherford. Are you aware of the history of the blood policy within the JW organization? It is likely not what you think, and it has taken many twists and turns over the years, to the point where today, you can accept a blood “fraction” without penalty. But let me ask you Tracey, where did the blood fraction come from?
Will you accept a blood fraction?
If so, will you donate blood, which is the source of these fractions?
Do you know what will happen to you if you donate blood?
The blood policy has nothing to do with God or Christ, it has everything to do with solidarity as an organization – being different, and having an interpretation of the Scriptures which makes Jehovah’s Witnesses stand out. Without the blood policy, disfellowshipping and shunning, and the publishing empire, Jehovah’s Witnesses would be un-newsworthy. They have adopted this blood policy which has nothing to do with pouring blood out upon the ground and making God happy. If you believe in the teachings of Jesus, you would not for one minute believe that he would allow a child to die because of a mandate from the Governing Body of JWs. These men meet every Wednesday and vote on your life – the vote on how you can dress, how you preach, what you can watch, and what kind of medical care is acceptable. This is not God, it is men.
We are happy you are here reading important articles, and I would recommend that you read Ray Franz book Crisis of Conscience – this will give you very deep insight into what goes on inside the Governing Body, and will show you how their decisions were rarely based on scripture, but on personal opinions, and a 2/3 vote was needed to confirm a decision. Your eyes will be opened widely I can assure you. This is your life – make sure you read everything you can to get all of the facts. It will make a difference, I promise
JR
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Caleb & $ophia says:
April 23, 2016 at 2:19 pm
The service department had instructed the local elders NOT to approve Prince to become a non baptized publisher without their permission. They did the same before approving him for baptism.
The GB through the service department stayed in close communication with Princes’ elders as to his progress and had to answer specific questions about how conduct and morality.
Both his becoming a publisher and baptism were directly approved by headquarters due to his celebrity status. The WT did not trust the local elders to make such decision.
My source is someone reliable with direct knowledge in Patterson where the service department was located at the time.
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Twmack says:
April 23, 2016 at 3:06 pm
@ Tracy, The problem was, we paid too much attention,
always accepting, never questioning. A sure way to
become a victim of any fraudster. Col,2:8.
Can you explain, Why you are allowed to accept fractions
from blood that has been donated specifically for use in
transfusions? And can you tell us if you yourself would
donate blood? And if not why not?
Also, as the blood prohibition is exclusively a dietary law
and every Bible reference to it bears this out. Can you
explain by whose authority you are adding things to the
Bible by extending it to medical use?
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dee2 says:
April 23, 2016 at 3:37 pm
I once heard a secular Jew say that the Jews’ dietary laws/food regulations were necessary given that they didn’t have refrigeration back in the day.
Interestingly, the Jews who were purportedly “inspired” by God to write the Bible containing the blood prohibition dietary law/food regulation, are not against blood transfusions and blood donations.
It should also be noted that meat can never be completely rid/cleaned of its blood. Meat purchased from the supermarket still has blood in it thus everybody who eats meat, eats some blood. JWs should be vegetarians since they shouldn’t consume blood.
I am sure the JWs, especially the females eat meat as a source of iron – meat is a good source of iron because it has blood in it, how ironic for the JWs.
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dee2 says:
April 23, 2016 at 11:48 pm
So JWs eat meat which still has some blood in it but they can’t get a blood transfusion.
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Tracey says:
April 23, 2016 at 10:16 pm
Well where I come from they encourage us to not just accept. We need to ask questions and to look to the Scriptures for the answers. I was brought up in the truth. And when I got to a certain age I also questioned my faith and compared other religions i wanted to make syre this is the truth and went searching for the answers and happy to be a part of the Christian Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses. You have to make the truth your own. You can’t just carry on because you were brought up in the faith. And besides…. Jesus said no one comes to me unless the father calls them. God is searching the hearts of people.
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Outandabout says:
April 23, 2016 at 11:30 pm
So, Tracey, what did you do to examine other religions? Did you go to Japan? Did you go to India or China? What about Eskimo’s? If you know so much, please tell me about these other ‘false’ beliefs and in the same depth as you know yours. No, girl, with respect, you know nothing. All you’ve done to research these other beliefs is to read the Watchtower version of them which adds up to nothing more than reading Watchtower cult propaganda designed with the sole purpose of keeping you believing their view on things. That’s not research. When you’re encouraged to examine scriptures at the meetings, watch out if you don’t come up with the scripted answer they want by using the NWT. You will be turned around to believe what they demand! Why was the normal version of the bible used by JW’s until during Rutherford’s reign? It’s because their beliefs became so far out of wack with the Bible and so easily dis-proved and so many questions were being asked that they were forced to print their own Bible and call it ‘new and improved’. To do that is one of the major signs of a cult. Now do now you see why they discourage ‘independent thinking’, a.k.a. ‘using your brains’?
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Tracey says:
April 24, 2016 at 9:11 am
You don’t need to go to another country to learn the truth or any other religion. And no I never got my info from the witnesses. If you search you will find answers. One has to be humble and have the right motives.
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rahab says:
April 24, 2016 at 8:05 pm
yes tracey,you don’t have to go to another country for you to know the truth about their religions.just keep lingering here around this blog and sooner or later you will know the truth about the truth and welcome to the world of wt apostates
Chiafade says:
April 23, 2016 at 7:56 pm
Oh my god, did anyone else read this in People magazine?
“The Jehovah’s Witness Church has released a statement following the untimely death of Prince, who officially converted to the religion in 2003.
“We are saddened to hear about the death of Prince Rogers Nelson, who was baptized as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in 2003,” a church spokesperson, David A. Semonian, said in a statement obtained by PEOPLE.
Semonian said that Prince “found fulfillment as a Witness and in sharing his faith with others.”
The statement added: “We do not have any details regarding his medical condition or the cause of his death. Our thoughts are with his family and friends, particularly his fellow worshippers in the Saint Louis Park congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Minnesota. We hope that all find comfort in the Bible’s promise of a future time when death, pain, and tears will be no more.—Revelation 21:3, 4.”
In true shameless witness fashion they have used the death of someone to promote their cult agenda.
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Stephan friz says:
April 23, 2016 at 8:50 pm
Mr lloyd… You seem to have it all figured out! Ask any person in any religion to stand up and say “i beleive in God, Jesus but not in the men at the head of the church” … They will probably throw you out… Jehovah’s witnesses will stop you from interfering with any meetings but they will definitely not stop you from beleiving what you want to beleive… The chouce is yours… If you don’t beleive the faithful and discreet slave is sent to us by Jehovah… Find another religion that’s all. Nobody forcing your hand.
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Winston Smith says:
April 23, 2016 at 9:00 pm
@Stephan
“but they will definitely not stop you from beleiving what you want to beleive”
Sorry, but I have to call BS on that. Oh sure you can believe whatever you want, but don’t you dare speak of it. Why don’t you try commenting at the meeting about how you don’t believe that Christ started ruling in 1914 or something similar and see how fast the elders have you in the back room and are talking about apostasy.
WS
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Tracey says:
April 23, 2016 at 10:23 pm
Think you missed his point. If you don’t believe in what they teach join another religion. You not forced to go to the kingdom hall and you have a choice to either accept or disagree but if you want to be a part of this organisation then we all have to be United in faith.
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Winston Smith says:
April 24, 2016 at 5:44 am
It’s nice that you have all the answers Tracey. What you fail to realize is that those answers have been programmed in you by a cult. I was the same way for my 30+ years in the sect. But then I woke up and found out the truth about the “truth.” To be part of this organization, you all have to believe the same. But that’s not according to scripture. Have you ever read Romans 14:1-12 where it says some Christians would keep a certain day as holy and yet others would not? Yet they were not to judge others for it. This unity at all costs that the JWs require is not in line with the scriptures.
WS
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John Redwood says:
April 24, 2016 at 11:07 am
Stephan
You are incorrect – the choice is not ours, as the indoctrination of young Jehovah’s Witnesses is so incredibly powerful and controlling, that baptisms take place at 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 years of age, and so forth. These children have no idea what life changing decision they are making, and have no idea that they can’t change their religion and choose to celebrate Christmas or Birthdays without being disfellowshipped and shunned by their immediate family for the rest of their lives.
The indoctrination of children the the subsequent demolition of thousands of families is absolutely devastating, and no child should be held accountable for such a life altering decision when they are still in a developmental stage.
So – when you say “nobody is forcing your hand” – this is utter nonsense and is completely insensitive to the fact that most people would NEVER EVER wish to be part of such a controlling fundamentalist religion if they were given the opportunity as an adult. Their hand is forced SEVERELY as minors, and they find out later that they made a huge mistake which is irreversible. Think about what you said. It’s not a choice, its a coercion.
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Tracey says:
April 25, 2016 at 1:02 pm
John that’s not entirely true. They actually don’t encourage baptism at such a young age. Dedicating your life to serve God is a very serious decision which should not be taken lightly.
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John Redwood says:
April 25, 2016 at 5:52 pm
Tracey – you stated that “that’s not entirely true” – which means you accept that in your mind it is at the very least partly true
Children are baptized at very young ages now. If 3 elders determine that they feel the child is old enough to make this decision, then they proceed with the baptism.
You need to understand that it is these elders which encourage and allow this, not the child. Naturally the child will want to be baptized – this is all he or she knows. Their whole life of just a few short years has been surrounded by Jehovah’s Witness parents, friends, elders, circuit overseers – all people who are telling them that this is the only choice -it is the “best way of life ever”. This is exactly what coercion and indoctrination is all about. These children do not have the maturity to make this decision, and they certainly have no idea what is in store for them when they decide to leave the religion, or have a relationship with another peer, or get an education in a proper university.
The doors are slammed shut on these children before they every have a chance to develop their minds. This is criminal, and should never be allowed. I was 16 when baptized, and I thought I knew everything – about religion, the world, the organization, so I made my dedication and was baptized, and it took me 30 years to wake up and realize I had lost my education and many other opportunities in life.
The organization knows that if a child is exposed to proper education and the entire outside world, most would never make the mistake of joining a high control religious cult which monitors every aspect of their lives, right down to the pants they wear.
Meditate on that, please, and know that we will not stop until children are protected from these dangers
Sincerely
JR
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Stephan friz says:
April 23, 2016 at 8:57 pm
Another thing that helps one find the true religion is Love. So who one here would trust a brother in the faith (that you never met) from North Korea (any country would do) to come live in their home, while your not there, leaving them your vehicle so they can get around. Ask any faith if they would do that? Your answer will tell you who truly loves and trust their brothers in the faith.
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Grace says:
April 23, 2016 at 9:01 pm
Stephen,
You obviously live in the jwbubble world. Have you read the child abuse scandal that is in the organisation. It’s horrendous because of the trusting nature of witnesses.
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Outandabout says:
April 23, 2016 at 10:12 pm
Stephan… if you want to know who has control over you, just identify who you are not allowed to criticise. But ask the Watchtower before you do that.
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Gameisover says:
April 24, 2016 at 3:07 am
It is apparent you have never done this.
I have done in, for many years, and I can tell you
the taking advantage, the abuses, are legion.
They include using our phone to call overseas and leaving us with tremendous bills (twice, different people) algo denying it when confronted. I could go on and on. If you wonder why we continued offering
our home to strangers during district assemblies, it is because when you are brainwashed you do that and more.
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Holy Connoli says:
April 24, 2016 at 10:47 am
Stephan Friz. I to trusted the Brothers from another country. I sponsored them into my home for 6 months as they were refugees. There were 5 of them
that I supported and gladly did so with only love in my heart. The grandfather of the bunch was caught trying to molest my young 9 year old daughter. He abruptly denied it and at that time the Brothers told me NOT to call the police. He tried touching her and kissing her. Thankfully she was able to get him out of her bedroom and lock the door when he tried to come back in. Another “brother” cheated me in a business transaction out of more than $50k and lied when he said he did not fake the amount of money on the business dealing. Another brother I deal with in business created FAKE invoices to write off fake business expenses to lower his tax debt.
I know not all JW’s are like this and I have done business with some very honest and good ones but my point is they are not much different that dealing with “WORLDLY” people. In fact I have dealt with Worldly people who are just as honest and more in many cases.
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Grace says:
April 25, 2016 at 5:06 pm
Here’s an example of a nice brother that you could have left the keys to your house & car to.
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Grace says:
April 23, 2016 at 8:59 pm
Stephen Friz,
I wish that you could leave those same comments on jw.org, but you can’t because they don’t allow free expression of thought.
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Outandabout says:
April 23, 2016 at 10:08 pm
Exactly, Grace. The owners of this site encourage visitors to correct him over any mistakes whatsoever. Like I said before, nothing like that exists on JW.Org and not only that, all JW’s know the unwritten statement of : If you notice anything wrong and don’t shut the hell up about it you’re dead at armaggedon. Nice cult!
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Tara says:
April 23, 2016 at 9:11 pm
I’m not sure where everyone is right now but the latest from here in North America is that Prince has been cremated and a private service held by his family and friends.
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Mark Thei says:
April 24, 2016 at 1:53 am
Jehovah’s witness may have played into the under-treatment and neglect of needed treatment that could have prevented the death of Prince. Faith is all good and well but when it supersedes medical care it’s questionable who really benefits.
Even stranger still is a Church releasing a statement regarding a members passing. There are multiple articles and cases where people have refused blood transfusions or other preventative medical procedures because of this religion.
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Mark Theo says:
April 24, 2016 at 2:02 am
Book review in JAMA (The Journal of the American Medical Association), 1997-FEB-5 Vol. 277, No.5, page 425
Awake! magazine for 1994-MAY-22, Page 2. The issue’s cover showed photographs of 26 Jehovah’s Witness children who refused a blood transfusion and subsequently died.
Michael Smith, “Jehovah’s Witness Bleeds To Death After Giving Birth”, The Daily Telegraph (London, UK), 1993-FEB-5. See:http://www.rickross.com/reference/Art64.html
Charnicia E. Huggins, “Childbirth Death Risk High in Jehovah’s Witnesses,” Reuters, at: http://news.excite.com/news/r/011108/17/health-childbirthBased on a report in American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology 2001;185:893-895.
M Khadra, “A criterion audit of women’s awareness of blood transfusion in pregnancy,” 1Women & Children’s Division, North Staffordshire Maternity Unit, Newcastle Road, Stoke on Trent, Staffs, ST4 6QG, UK, at: http://www.biomedcentral.com/ This is a PDF file. You may require software to read it. Software can be obtained free from:
Marvin Shilmer, “Deaths Due To Blood Refusal,” Jehovahs-Witness.com, 2007-JAN-08, at: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/
“Bethany Hughes: Dad given OK to sue over death,” Calgary Sun, 2006-FEB-27.
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← News Bulletin: Watchtower Faces Dilemma in Sex Abuse Ruling
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Superstar Prince Pronounced Dead: World in Shock Over Passing of Celebrity Jehovah’s Witness
avatar
Posted on April 21, 2016
April 22nd, 2016
Seldom does the death of one individual captivate the news so completely as when a superbly talented, musically gifted, and internationally beloved icon such as Prince loses his life. What would be a routine day of reporting of the U.S. Presidential race, international conflicts, and earthquake relief work has become a media spectacle, cornering all of the major news outlets including CNN and BBC.
For Jehovah’s Witnesses, the death of Prince comes with a mixed bag of emotions due to the controversial and mysterious nature of the converted JW pop star. While many Witnesses embrace the fact that such a gifted individual would accept their fundamentalist faith, other Witnesses despise his behavior and view his entire body of work as evidence of Satan’s influence in the entertainment industry.
This polarization of attitudes towards the few Jehovah’s Witnesses who have achieved worldwide fame reveals that the Watchtower organization is not really quite sure what to make of these individuals. While Scientology openly embraces and heaps accolades on its well-known celebrities like Tom Cruise and John Travolta, Jehovah’s Witnesses take a more subdued approach to fame, preferring to name-drop B-rated scientists who support creationism.
larrygrahamawake
February 22nd 1989 Awake! Magazine
There are some exceptions to this, most notably Watchtower’s 1989 life story of Larry Graham, the
man responsible for Prince’s conversion to the JW religion. Larry Graham’s life journey in becoming one of Jehovah’s Witnesses was featured in the February 22nd 1989 issue of the Awake! magazine, published by the Watchtower organization.
While Witness publications almost never feature persons of fame, Larry Graham was an exception to this policy, primarily due to his extraordinary devotion to the faith, and the fact that he became a full-time “pioneer” minister for Jehovah’s Witnesses as well as an elder in the congregation. As a result of his evangelical nature, coupled with his connection to many prominent musicians, he was able to get the attention of Prince Rogers Nelson, or as we know him, Prince.
larrygrahamfamily
Larry Graham and Family at the Kingdom Hall
By the year 2001, Prince had accepted the faith of his close friend Graham, replacing his prior beliefs which included membership in the Seventh Day Adventist church. As Graham’s spiritual protegé, he publicly cast off the celebration of birthdays, voting, and embraced Jehovah’s Witnesses’ bizarre ban on life-saving blood transfusions. He even accompanied Graham in the public ministry, knocking on doors, counting his time. But make no mistake, Prince was not about to throw away the only thing which made Prince Prince, his explosive imagination, creativity and genius musical talent which could not be contained inside the stagnant four walls of a Kingdom Hall.
His career continued, mildly subdued by the religion, but never irreversibly stifled by the rigid rules of Watchtower’s invasive Governing Body. And this was in fact the reason Prince was such a controversial figure among Jehovah’s Witnesses. Just as with one-time Jehovah’s Witness Michael Jackson, the musical products of Prince divided Witnesses into two camps: one which admired his music and bragged about his affiliation with the organization, and the other which labeled him as a despicable hypocrite whose sexually permissive appearance and lyrics disgraced the holy and conservative beliefs of the JW organization.
By the time Prince had become a Witness, Michael Jackson had already left the religion, but not before being coerced into a public apology for his music video Thriller, which the Awake! magazine connected with spiritism. In the May 1984 Awake! publication, Jackson was quoted as saying:
“I would never do it again”.
While Jackson died in complete disgrace among Witnesses as a disassociated member, Prince somehow managed to avoid judicial punishment and ostracism for his questionable lifestyle, as his music, associates, and actions were the polar opposite of the ultra-conservative JW beliefs.
Prince died at a terribly young age. Speculations as to the cause of his death are spreading like gangrene, and are useless in the face of the reality that we have lost yet another entertainment genius, and we won’t get him back. The intersection of his life with that of the Jehovah’s Witness religion raises many questions which might not be answered for quite some time. Until then, we can only comment on what we know, and what Prince said.
For a brilliant and thoughtful review of the passing of Prince Rogers Nelson, please view the following video produced by Lloyd Evans, senior editor for JW Survey:
John Redwood
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154 Responses to Superstar Prince Pronounced Dead: World in Shock Over Passing of Celebrity Jehovah’s Witness
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alain says:
April 24, 2016 at 4:40 am
Was Prince a baptized JW? Or was he just a sympathizer, sharing beliefs and faith with his old friend, Larry Graham?
Reply
Caroline says:
April 24, 2016 at 4:41 am
So far, suicide has been ruled out and it will take some time before the cause of Prince’s death will be learned but he had cancelled two concerts because of health reasons and just before his death, he made up at least one of those concerts and on his way home to Minnesota, the plane made an emergency stop in Chicago and he was taken to the hospital but released in a few hours and went back to his home in Minneapolis and then just a couple days later, he threw a big party and supposedly said something like “you don’t have to pray for me in two days” which people are trying to figure out what that meant but then two days later, he was found dead.
Since Prince was so famous, I always felt that, if he ever learned the truth about the truth, that that would have held a very high price for the Society to pay if he were ever let the cat out of the bag.
Is it possible that he could have been done away with by the Society to keep him quiet, since, if the truth about the Society’s lie, that would have literally destroyed the lives of eight million Jehovah’s Witnesses?
Probably the real truth is that he had a medical condition and he knew he was going to die soon and that is what he found out during his emergency stop in Chicago that night on his way back to Minneapolis after that last concert and why he threw that party on Monday night, but the thought did cross my mind.
Reply
Twmack says:
April 24, 2016 at 4:53 am
@Tracy, Your reasoning is very vague and inconsistent.
You talk about the need to “Be united in the faith”, but
by commenting here you have strayed from the flock,
your a rebel setting your own independent standards.
Why are you going against WT directions?—-
What is involved in avoiding false teachers? We do not receive them into our homes or greet them. We also refuse to read their literature, watch TV programs that feature them, examine their Web sites, or add our comments to their blogs. WT 11,7/15 p15
Also, why have you avoided answering my question regarding
accepting fractions from donated blood?
Reply
Winston Smith says:
April 24, 2016 at 6:13 am
Twmack
Think back to when we were first waking up. We still held certain teachings dear and still thought we had to defend Watchtower to some extent. The period of coming awake can be a tumultuous one with much back and forth. We are programmed to give certain answers, but we also know something is just not right. That could be Tracey’s case.
Or he/she could be a watchtower troll and counting their time when on this site. But let’s give the benefit of the doubt for now.
WS
Reply
Tara says:
April 24, 2016 at 6:28 am
I agree on this. We have a number of ‘new faces’ who have been brave enough to join us. I also went through a phase, when waking up, of still trying to justify the beliefs that had been indoctrinated into me. When I was baptised I stopped studying ‘worldly’ literature because only the WT had it right. It has been an illuminating and refreshing journey in the last couple of years to seek out independent thoughts on taboo subjects.
I hope those who have joined us glean something to think about as they sit at the meetings, read the literature, watch the broadcasting’s etc. Please also go look at JW Facts.
You must have questions if you are on this site. Know the truth and the truth will set you free :)
Reply
dee2 says:
April 24, 2016 at 7:23 am
@Tracey:
“Does not the bible itself says the end is near?”
– Where does the Bible state this?
“You don’t have to be a JW to know we living in the last days.”
– What proof do you have that we are living in the last days?
“Many people I know believe this and they not witnesses. It is inevitable.”
– There are also many people who believe that we are NOT living in the last days, this includes Christians who believe in Preterism.
Reply
dee2 says:
April 24, 2016 at 7:27 am
******………this includes Christians who believe in Preterism AND NO MILLENNIALISM.
Reply
Twmack says:
April 24, 2016 at 11:05 am
The last days are experienced by thousands every time
the Earth makes a full turn on its axis, some will be famous
but the majority will be obscure.
The apostle John in his old age was still expecting the end
1 Joh, 2:18. Not the end of the Jewish system, for
that had happened over a quarter of a century before the
writing of this particular letter.
like every other mortal, John came to his end, and sadly
without seeing his hopes fulfilled. What prospects are there
of the predictions of the self appointed F&DS being any more
successful than those of the apostle ? Zero !
I’ve accepted my own mortality, and enjoyed the life I’ve had.
And I’m glad I saw through the delusion and didn’t waste
“All” my life chasing the JW mirage, A mere illusion.
Reply
Michele says:
April 24, 2016 at 12:05 pm
I wonder if he left any of his fortune to the WTS. I bet he did.
Reply
JBob says:
April 24, 2016 at 10:12 pm
Now that the riffraff have all posted—
It is probably stunning to many JW’s and non-JW’s that Prince conducted multiple and numerous charitable activities throughout his lifetime, even after his conversion to JW [sidebar: long ago in an interview far, far back when, Prince noted that he pursued this conversion as a promise to his dying mother]. Thus, most probable that some of those fortunes are endowments to that activity.
(57 is young? Redwood must be as ancient as that tortoise in the Watchtower’s “evolution” literature…)
Like many “superstars” and local ‘icons’ the path laid out for his spiritual journey is different from the average r/f member. Envious much? Keep in mind that the physical toll on this young “fella” had nudged him toward using a cane–albeit stylish–to walk. But, what I admire most about his life is a living example of the “cup running over”. Blessings flowing to him were showered back into the world and community not only as musical gifts but in charitable and edifying methods we are yet to learn and discover.
But as Redwood and others note, the polarization among hardcore conservative JW’s and more moderate “live and let live” JW’s reflects conservative insecurities about being an “odd” duck in the pond of religious beliefs. A consuming obsession with being, or appearing, to be normal to the point of being bland and lukewarm as the myth goes so as not to detract from the ministry. Prince, Michael Jackson and other geniuses and savants take this “myth” and flip it upside down by placing their shiny bauble at hilltop. Further, it busts this myth from those who prescribe a one-size-fits-all ministry (service) to God. Even Watchtower HQ has given up on this myth, as it scrambles to record tv and videos of its “star” presenters while shoving aside attempts to shape pig ears into silky speakers and presenters of its message.
Reply
dee2 says:
April 25, 2016 at 7:11 am
“57 is young? Redwood must be as ancient as that tortoise in the Watchtower’s “evolution” literature…”
You’re considered a senior at age 55 and up in some societies, and a youth if you are in the 13 to 35 age group……… maybe Redwood has other ideas……….you’re as young as you feel?
Reply
TS says:
April 25, 2016 at 3:59 am
Colossians 2:8 A lier and dangerious man you are.Bible gives you an answer…”poor man”
Reply
Average Joe says:
April 25, 2016 at 4:47 am
I’m currently reading Ray Franz’s “Crisis Of Conscience” at long last. It’s heavy going at times and a lot of the letters and references I skim over (I realise they are there to prove what he is saying is true but I take him at his word anyway) but what he describes is amazing and totally different to the organisation I thought I belonged to.
The double standards of the Governing Body are shocking, especially when they more-or-less caused the needless atrocities in Malawi by not allowing the bothers there to possess a political party ID card (even though Malawi was a one-party state anyway) whilst allowing the brothers in Mexico to not only have an army allegiance card but even paying bribes to get fake ones. I’m all in favour of the brothers doing what’s humanely possible to live a trouble free life (especially from religious oppression) but having double standards and then washing your hands of those that do (like in Mexico) saying that they would not be helped by the WTS if they got into trouble because of their actions (although approved then condoned by the WTS) really beggars belief.
All of the 1914 teachings came from Adventists, as early Watchtower literature even admits. That’s the point I’ve just read in his book and am now at the stage where he is wanting to resign from the GB.
What a fascinating book and life story. Whilst I won’t be going the way Lloyd & many others have gone by denying existence in God, my faith in the JW org is crumbling quickly. Thanks to Lloyd for putting me on to this book (despite the childish controversy surrounding it on the part of over-zealous ex-JW evangelists) as it truly is a work of art and more honest than any life story that you’ll see in a WT.
Reply
dee2 says:
April 25, 2016 at 8:12 am
Hope you’ll also get around to reading ex-GB member Raymond Franz’s follow up book: IN SEARCH OF CHRISTIAN FREEDOM. It exposes key JW doctrines & pactrices regarding for eg.
– the faithful & discreet slave
– the origin & validity of shunning
– the misuse of disfellowshipping
– the use of the name Jehovah & Jehovah’s Witnesses
– the insistence on going from house to house
– the WT’s version of what constitutes the “good news”
– the ban on blood transfusions
– etc.
Reply
Average Joe says:
April 25, 2016 at 9:19 am
All in good time Dee! 😉
Thanks for the tip.
x
Reply
James Broughton says:
April 25, 2016 at 7:00 am
JBob makes some interesting points. The Society cannot really tolerate having superstars in their midst (unlike the Mormons) because individuality is squeezed out in favour of the corporate image (sorry about the jargon). As the GB are taking on celebrity status under the JW.org logo, the average Witness is being made to bow down before them rather like Daniel and his companions at the time of the Babylonian exile.
Reply
Eyes opened says:
April 25, 2016 at 9:40 am
Sounds spot on. Also the two Ray Franz books are must reads. Excellent information, well documented. The info contained in these books is absolutely need to know. I have great respect for the man.
Regards
Reply
David Fletcher says:
April 25, 2016 at 11:11 am
As someone who was bought up as a JW then disfellowshipped then looked at other religions and so called bible followers with a view of disproving the JW’s beyond doubt all I found was nothing but hypocrisy, or they kept saying give me some money. I went to one Church it was a very old building looking grand in all its glory and within the first 5 minutes the Vicar mentioned the collection plate at least 3 times. No mention of the bible in and way after 30 minutes I walked out in disgust. I went to another where I was sitting in a nice little Congregation listening to the speaker and getting engrossed in his good delivery when all of a sudden a big lady sat at the side of me stood up & shouted at the top of her voice “Hallelujah Praise the Lord” needless to say I about wet myself & didn’t go there again. I got involved in many things that were illegal and turned my back on all I had been taught. Needless to say that I suffered. After a few VERY near misses with death I decided I ought to get my life in order. So I stopped doing the illegal things etc, cut down the drinking etc, and thought right where do I go from here. During all the time that I was away from the witnesses I honestly believed they were to blame for all my problems along with Jehovah for allowing things to happen to me like cruelly being disfellowshipped. Little did I realise that it wasn’t what I had done wrong it was my attitude that got me disfellowshipped. Many times during the years I was away from them I would perhaps come across a witness who would ask if I’d ever thought of gong back. My reply was “I could never live up to the standards”. To cut a long story short I am now back as a witness I am very regretful I ever left, when I see others my age who have stayed in the truth and have successfull families and business and are Elders etc. You see I understand you people that have been JW’s & how you must justify your actions to yourselves because you don’t want to admit that your wrong and that is why you twist and manipulate things to make us look bad and you look big brave and clever for denying us and trying to make us look bad. Who are usually the first rescue team on the scene in natural disasters who don’t get paid who don’t solicit donations who don’t go round bragging they are usually the first who not only help our own but help others as well. Might I respectfully ask that you stop being so nastily dogmatic in your views, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but do you see jw people posting things on here about the lies and the low morals of many of today’s churches and naming and shaming them. The answer is NO. Try live and let live instead of trying to stir hatred.
Reply
Grace says:
April 25, 2016 at 2:26 pm
David,
You mustn’t read your Watchtowers because it’s full of criticism towards other religions. How dare you put all other religions down when you only visited a couple. Just because you didn’t make a good life for yourself outside of the organisation doesn’t mean that others haven’t. You obviously need the controlling element in the organisation in your life to behave. If so, then I’m not here to take that away from you. That’s your decision but please don’t paint the Watchtower with your fairytale version of it. Go back & read the literature.
One of my favourites sayings is: “I would rather be around people who are good & need God then people who need God to be good”.
I have many friends who are not involved with religion that have been the kindest & most understanding people. That are decent family orientated people.
As for being the first on scene for a natural disaster. You’re buying into the propaganda that is being fed to you that is total bs.
You don’t know me or anyone else here to accuse us of justifying our actions. My husband & I have not done anything to be shunned except to be shocked & outspoken over the utter madness of the child abuse policies. The Australian Royal Commission who simply started looking at the Catholic Church were bombarded by many JW victims here in Australia that came forward asking for help so the ARC looked into it. They were absolutely shocked by their findings. I can tell you this first hand as I have had contact with them.
Reply
Outandabout says:
April 25, 2016 at 2:32 pm
David….who are usually the first rescue team on the scene? Well, I’ve never heard of a self funding quick response JW rescue team who are always at the ready to turn up like the Thunderbirds and unselfishly be the heroes of the day. Any aid administered by the JW’s is no more special than all the other ‘haughty’ organisations. It’s only natural for human beings from all backgrounds to help out in a crisis. It’s called ‘being human’
Who don’t solicit funds? Are you kidding???????
Lets not waste any time on that one.
Who don’t brag? Again….you must be joking. Maybe they don’t brag openly to the outside world, but the message from the Awakes is loud and clear and that’s all about exaggerating reality in order to make JW’s feel special about themselves. In other words… lie to you. When did you last see a JW soup kitchen? Charity shop? The Watchtower is a self serving organisation with the unwritten motto: ‘Self Preservation at all Cost’.
JW’s posting lies about other religions? The Watchtower totally slanders other religions in it’s publications and particularly hates the Catholics and has been doing so for decades and decades.
I myself do not hate JW’s and have never met anyone who does. An elder came to my door a while back and he was one of the very few people I’ve ever met that I’ve taken an instant liking to. He could be my friend no worries. I did a job for a woman the other week and came away thinking how nice she was. I later found out she was a witness. I have JW family. The hatred you are experiencing is directed at the Watchtower itself and not the followers, but that message gets blurred by bad communication.
While you were out of the faith, it’s a shame you didn’t seek help from a professional therapist and explain to them that you’re coming out of a long term abusive relationship and need some help.
Reply
John Redwood says:
April 25, 2016 at 5:39 pm
David
We appreciate your comments and your viewpoint. I would like to point out that this is not a site intended to stir up any hate, not by any means
I would like to address a few things for your benefit -the first is your comment to “live and let live”. Personally, we all agree with this concept. However I must point out that there is a problem with this. Allowing an organization which violates core civil rights to continue its practices unobstructed is not an option for us. Someone must speak out against harmful policies of any organization, educating the public to the serious dangers of influential cults. To summarize key issues which violate a person’s right to a free and happy life, note the following
1) The Watchtower organization practices shunning and disfellowshipping, which tears families to pieces due to the requirement of strict obedience to the Governing Body’s rules
2) Jehovah’s Witnesses encourage baptism at very young ages, where the youths are still minors and really have no understanding of the consequences of leaving the organization should they change their minds and choose another path.
3) The organization practices a ban on blood transfusions, which has cost tens of thousands of lives, including many children who never had the chance to mature and make an informed decision about their life path
All of these 3 items are a serious violation of human rights, and we will not stop reporting on these issues until we have won the battle against undue influence.
So – if you want to live and let live – we are fine with however you wish to practice your faith. But if you wish to associate with Jehovah’s Witnesses, know that you are not part of any kind of humanitarian organization whatsoever.
As for your comment on JW being first on the scene in a disaster – this is not the case. I spent many years in RBC and relief work, and while I greatly enjoyed this, we were not doing the general public any service at all. Witnesses love to tell those stories, but they are exaggerations of the truth. The only times we ever helped any “wordly” people was when it served our own interests, such as when we repaired the home of an official in Antigua in exchange for the release of construction items held up in the local port. Individual Witnesses might help their non-JW neighbors, but the organization does absolutely nothing unless it benefits their own interests.
Now that I have left, I have seen how “worldly” persons with no agenda freely give to everyone, with no strings attached, regardless of their religious affiliation. There are good and bad people everywhere, and JWs are no exception. But as a whole, the organization does absolutely nothing to contribute money or aid to the world in general – the only help the “brotherhood”. And often they do it in exchange for money from various insurance companies. During hurricane Sandy on the East Coast, JWs received extensive help from the RBC, but ONLY with the understanding that when they received their insurance payout, the funds were to be handed over to Watchtower. And Watchtower paid for NONE of the labor – it was all volunteer JWs who did this work. I know this for a fact, as I was involved
Give some thought to these things, they are absolutely true, and they are based on factual information, not on “nasty” or “dogmatic” assertions.
Sincerely,
JR
Reply
Average Joe says:
April 25, 2016 at 11:55 am
@DAVID. Being an active JW myself and an elder, I must admit that on the whole I have not come against hatred against JWs, quite the opposite in fact. I’ve always been brought up to believe that apostates hate our guts and, quite frankly, this is what I experienced first hand as a kid in the 70s with the activists outside our hall. However, as a reasoning adult and a thirst for justice, I’ve asked many questions here, voiced my concerns and almost always been answered in a kind, frank, understanding way.
I doubt I will be convinced NOT to believe in God or to go over to the evolution camp like Lloyd, but the gaping flaws in the JW org just can’t be ignored, neither can the hypocrisy. Seeing very unchristian qualities manifested from fellow elders and what boils down to heartless disregard for anyone who doesn’t live up to WTS standards (or worse still, their own) makes me even more sure that God has removed his spirit from the WTS, if it was ever there at all. I’m at a stage in my life like Ray Franz was, as I’m coming to realise by reading his first book. I’m still active as an elder because I want to defend my friends against cretins who act like glorified policemen instead of loving shepherds. I have a very zealous wife who just brushes the inconsistencies away so there’s no reasoning with her and basically I don’t want to put my a strain on the marriage so that’s a sacrifice I make.
I think you’ve missed the who point of this site if you think it’s purpose is to stir hatred. Might I suggest you watch the video of a number of apostates confirming the exact opposite.
Reply
dee2 says:
April 25, 2016 at 12:28 pm
Average Joe,
Just a note – evolution does not equal atheism as some may think, they are not one and the same.
Reply
Tracey says:
April 25, 2016 at 12:48 pm
David I am intrigued how you can be an elder in the congregation but yet believe it does not have God’s spirit? That just does not sound right.
Reply
Tracey says:
April 25, 2016 at 12:50 pm
Sorry David I ment Joe
Reply
Outandabout says:
April 25, 2016 at 2:38 pm
I’m really impressed with your stickability, Tracey. Standing up and defending your view in such a controlled way. You’re going to make a fine Atheist. You go girl!!
Reply
Average Joe says:
April 25, 2016 at 3:18 pm
Believe me Tracey I have been in several where that fact has been evident. The one I am in now is a lot better but there are still self-righteous individuals who seek to impose a higher morality than God’s own standards.
I was referring to the org as a whole. Even Geoff Jackson admitted in the ARC hearings that he didn’t believe they were God’s only spokesmen on earth.
The more hypocrisy I see in the organisation makes it more difficult for me to reconcile my duties as an elder. The WTS GB refers to us as the rank & file, whilst they don’t put into practice anything they preach. Look at how the majority aren’t good speakers (yet ordinary individuals applying the counsel from the old TMS are much more accomplished speakers), they warn about showy display of ones means of life yet wear expensive jewellery and watches on the JW Broadcasts, they blatantly lie about winning awards when they themselves have PAID to enter a COMPETITION and PAID to engrave then receive the supposed awards (check the Telly Awards site for their T&C and you’ll see they class it as a competition), how’s that being no part of the world.
As I previously stated, when having to justify my position to other visitors on this site, awakening affects people in different ways and I like the social aspect of my congregation. You don’t like that? Sorry. At least I don’t hide child abusers or support the WTS and their horrendous policy on child abuse. They may well take away my privileges if they find out what I really think but that’s a small price to pay for being a decent human being and having a clean conscience. The GB can’t say the same!
Reply
John Redwood says:
April 25, 2016 at 4:54 pm
Tracey
There are quite a few readers of our site who are awakened Jehovah’s Witnesses, but who maintain their responsibilities as elders in the congregation. There are also Bethel brothers in the same position.
The reason for this has much to do with the fact that leaving the organization means walking away from your family, your friends, everything you have known your entire life. So while it might seem difficult to believe for you, it represents the lesser of two evils for these persons. They struggle with knowing this is not an organization sanctioned by God, but they follow a course which disrupts their lives and family the least.
In a perfect world, they could just walk away from the religion with no consequences and move on with their life – but as you know, rejection from family, friends and the organization is a stiff penalty, and is a severe violation of human rights. Jesus never sanctioned such behavior (of the organization) and certainly did not sanction the many transgressions of the organization, such as policies which cause harm to children when the police are not immediately notified in cases of child abuse. Jesus never sanctioned child baptism or indoctrination, and if you believe in the Bible, you know that he was not baptized until the age of 30, a fully mature adult.
Please give this some thought, and try to separate your personal feelings from fact and evidence. It took me 46 years to wake up – a lifetime inside this organization. Your thoughts and comments are welcome here, and I hope we can help you establish a better understanding of our viewpoint, while listening to yours.
Sincerely
JR
Reply
JWIntellect says:
April 25, 2016 at 12:23 pm
Prince will be greatly missed. I was a fan of his music and was thrilled that he accepted the faith of the JW religion when I was an indoctrinated member. I bought and listened to his album 3121 and was strengthened and fortified in my faith in the religion by his songs “The Word” and “Get On The Boat”. You could really see the affect the religion was having upon him through these two songs. I strongly encourage anyone to listen to this album if they haven’t already. On the other hand, there was also some questionable music (from a JW viewpoint) on the album like “Black Sweat” which he won an award for. The song “Planet Earth” from his album Planet Earth is also a faith inspired song by him. But it was great music nonetheless.
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News Bulletin: Secret Watchtower documents once again demanded in new US court case.
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Posted on April 25, 2016
campos-pedophile
Jehovah’s Witness and pedophile Gonzalo Campos
Only last week, we reported upon the latest development in the lawsuit that abuse survivor Jose Lopez is bringing against the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.
Lopez was abused by Jehovah’s Witness Elder Gonzalo Campos, and alleges that Watchtower’s controversial policies on dealing with accusations of child abuse (policies which were heavily criticised by the Australian Royal Commission last year) significant contributed towards Campos’ ability to abuse him with apparent impunity.
Lopez’ lawsuit is still underway, but another survivor of Campos’ abuse has also come forward, and put the same allegations to a court of law.
His name is Osbaldo Padron.
As journalist Dorian Hargrove reports in the San Diego Reader, Padron alleges that his abuse occurred in 1994, after the events documented in the Lopez lawsuit, by which point the Watchtower organisation was already aware that Campos was a serial child rapist. Nevertheless, Watchtower elders allegedly failed to involve law enforcement and allowed Campos to continue serving as an elder, thus granting him the opportunity to carry out his attacks on Padron.
As Hargrove reports:
Padron filed his lawsuit in September 2013. Since filing…church officials and their attorneys have stonewalled in turning over documents, despite a March 2015 court order requiring them to do so.
Those who have followed the long-running story of Watchtower’s deepening child abuse scandal will remember this ruling, which took place as part of the ongoing lawsuit from Jose Lopez. Part of Lopez lawsuit alleged that, not only were Watchtower fully aware of Campos’ abusive acts, and had done nothing about them, but crucially that this fit a far larger pattern of such behaviour from Watchtower: a systemic failure to confront child molestation accusations in an effective manner, and a deliberate policy of not bringing such accusations to the attention of the authorities.
It was alleged that documents held by Watchtower prove this accusation; documents that list tens of thousands of alleged Jehovah’s Witness child molesters that the religion has failed to report or act upon, but has instead simply filed away.
The existence of these documents is no longer in dispute. During the Lopez lawsuit, the Judge agreed that these records, should they exist, were vital to proving the degree of Watchtower’s awareness of the problem, and their culpability in ignoring it.
In response, Watchtower’s lawyers admitted that these records exist, but ultimately refused to produce them, even going so far as to refuse a direct order from the court to do so.
As reported last week, an appeal court has confirmed that Watchtower must produce these records in the Lopez case or face severe consequences.
Now, it appears that the Padron case will be walking the exact same legal path with one slight difference; in Padron’s case, it appears that Watchtower did actually release some documents, but had carefully redacted them so heavily that they were useless.
Reports Hargrove:
“…Watchtower produced documents that redacted the names of victims, elders, perpetrators, congregations (as well as the addresses and contact information of the congregation), towns where abuse occurred, law enforcement agencies that investigated claims, and other material,” reads a newly filed court document. “The redactions are so extreme that Plaintiff cannot make use of them. Plaintiff submitted a sampling of these redacted documents to the discovery referee and this Court, who each agreed that the redactions are so broad as to undermine Plaintiff’s ability to use them.
“This court determined the requested documents were relevant, unprivileged, and that production would not be overly burdensome. This court also specifically addressed third party privacy, stating: ‘all personal, identifying information pertaining to any third party/victim should be redacted from the documents to address any privacy concerns.’”
He also reports that Patron’s legal team will be going before the court on Friday 29th April to make the following motion (bold is mine:)
In a court motion, Padron’s attorney, Irwin Zalkin, says the court must get tough with the church and issue terminating sanctions compelling church leaders and their attorneys to follow orders. If granted, terminating sanctions would impose fines on the church for each day it fails to turn over the documents. If the documents are still not produced after a reasonable amount of time, the judge could order dismissal of the case and render judgment against the Watchtower, the Playa Pacific Spanish Congregation, and Campos.
So it looks as though Padron’s case is going to walk the same path as the Lopez lawsuit. Watchtower is going to be faced with a choice: Hand over documents that could be as explosively damaging as the documents released in Australia last year that proved the religion had been hiding over 1000 molesters in its Australian congregations…
…or face multiple millions of dollars in damaging court fines, at a time when the religion is showing all the signs of serious financial concerns.
Either decision is going to come with a flood of harmful negative publicity that will further the strain the credibility of Watchtower leaders like Steven Lett when they claim that such reports of negligence and cover-up are simply “apostate lies.”
One wonders if Watchtower’s Governing Body would be brave enough to repeat this sweeping dismissal under oath before a legal process.
Oh wait. That’s right. They are not.
covert-fade-signature
Further reading:
Original San Diego Reader article by Dorian Hargrove
Documentary “Jehovah’s Witnesses and Child Abuse: Is there a problem?” by Lloyd Evens
Emmy award winning news website Reveal News is conducting an extensive investigation into Watchtower’s child abuse scandal. Their articles can be viewed here.
The Australian Royal Commission Investigation into The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Official Government website with transcripts and evidence available to download and view, including the transcript of testimony given by Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson. Video footage of the above testimonies can be found here
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21 Responses to News Bulletin: Secret Watchtower documents once again demanded in new US court case.
Peter van der Brink says:
April 25, 2016 at 7:00 am
Any ‘world’organisation with a manager like Steven Lett, should be amazing to survive. So this ‘governing body’ runs a communistic system without any reality. It is like 1989 DDR times. All one way propaganda is not more helping. Close to bankrupt.
Reply
Tara says:
April 25, 2016 at 7:03 am
Slowly the victims are coming forward.
I’m a little confused. Can someone enlighten me.
It say’s : This court also specifically addressed third party privacy, stating: ‘all personal, identifying information pertaining to any third party/victim should be redacted from the documents to address any privacy concerns.’”
If the court said to do this then was the WT simply following orders or was it so extreme that they may as well of handed over a blank piece of paper? I’m confused as to where the legal line was to be drawn.
Reply
Doc Obvious says:
April 25, 2016 at 8:20 am
Watchtower is editing the documents so much that it is rendered useless in a court of law. In other words, a cover up inside a cover up. That is why these cults survive in the United States. There is so much cover ups that the United States judicial system causes more problems than it solves.
Reply
Tara says:
April 25, 2016 at 4:32 pm
Nice waste of tax payers money then.
Reply
James Broughton says:
April 25, 2016 at 7:08 am
The Goddard report in the UK is also going to make for interesting reading. The Society will no longer be able to hide behind the “apostate lies” excuse but will have to face up to its misdemeanors. Delving into its history will reveal more that it bargained for.
Reply
Tara says:
April 25, 2016 at 7:20 am
I mentioned these reports to a witness friend who hardly goes to meetings and she said ‘oh that’s journalism for you.’ I had to shake my head. They have no idea. They are in such a bubble and even the ones here who are fading still live in a bubble to some degree.
Reply
Chiafade says:
April 25, 2016 at 10:15 am
Yep that’s journalism alright. Aren’t the watchtower and awake called journals? Therefore the writers are considered journalists. They also write sensationalistic stuff like “this time of the end” and “the end is so close brothers”. They, like all sensationalistic journalists, do it for the reaction.
These are actual reports with court documents to back them up. The JWs will lump the true and false all together into one and reject everything wholesale. Doing exactly what they accused me of when I brought up these horrendous actions by watchtower. They said ” well these are things that Jehovah can clear up in HIS time not YOURS. Why throw out the baby with the bathwater? “…because the baby’s full of shit, nuff said.
Reply
Grace says:
April 25, 2016 at 2:46 pm
Chiafade,
What an excellent comment. I never really thought about the sensationalism of the WT & Awake mags like that before. Especially considering none of it can be proven & you’re left relying on the deluded grandiosity of the writers that come up with these so-called holy spirit guided interpretations of scripture.
My understanding is that the GB don’t write this stuff. Someone in the writing department comes up with it & they just approve it in their weekly GB meetings. So who is actually guided by the holy spirit?
Reply
Ready 4 to Fade says:
April 25, 2016 at 5:41 pm
Yet, when journalism brought the Catholic Church to its knees in 2002 for child abuse, Watchtower was more than happy to jump on the condemnation bandwagon.
Reply
Gary says:
April 25, 2016 at 7:53 am
There are documents held by Watchtower that relate to child sex abuse and their perpetrators & they refuse to hand them over . . . why?
The most senior member of the governing body distanced himself from involvement with the Watchtower, why?
Eventually, I am convinced, all will be revealed.
No one is condemning innocent JWs but nevertheless ” I was just following orders” just doesn’t cut it.
Reply
idkwhattocallmyself says:
April 25, 2016 at 10:18 am
You got it 100%, we should all confront our still in relatives and ask them if they are “OK” being accessories to this and supporting Watchtower’s legal obfuscation to protect molesters and rapists.
Reply
Ready 4 to Fade says:
April 25, 2016 at 5:44 pm
My favorite quote in Spotlight: “If it takes a village to raise a child, you could also say it takes a village to allow one to be abused.” There is complicity in silence, everyone should be mandated by their own moral sense to report such a travesty.
Reply
Gary says:
April 25, 2016 at 8:03 am
If you’re conscience is a God given gift then don’t let anyone else abuse it, because as you can see, they will not be able to recall.
Reply
wifibandit says:
April 25, 2016 at 10:04 am
San Diego Superior Court (Civil)
Case Number: 37-2013-00067529-CU-PO-CTL
Reply
Brent says:
April 25, 2016 at 4:34 pm
Thanks
Reply
ruthlee says:
April 25, 2016 at 1:31 pm
The whole Governing Body should be on their knees in a perpetual vigil of prayer for several reasons: They should pray Prince leaves them all his hard earned cash so they can complete Warwick ,pay off their lawsuits and cheap suits. They could pay off the kids with a tidy sum of hush money without ouching their own personal stash. They should pray that their god loves a paradise in Warwick just for them and pull the drawbridge up so the nasty amharets cannot get a peak. They could start their own paradise driving around in little red corvettes. And their final round of prayer should probably be that god does not actually exist or He will punish them ALL for their sordid games, lying under oath and allowing children to get raped. would not want their Warwick paradise for one day. One day there will be justice and it cannot come too soon. Ruthlee
Reply
Meredith J says:
April 25, 2016 at 3:57 pm
I was reading my Revised Standard Bible the other day and it was in Luke 21:8 where I realised this was referring to the Watchtower specifically. “And he said, “Take heed that you are not led astray: for many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he!’ and, “The time is at hand!’ Do not go after them. Why didn’t we see that? It was written there for us to see but our eyes were so blinded that we could not see it. When they were telling us that we were in the time of Christ’s Presence, which is pretty much the same as “I am he”, we were being set up just like Jesus warned. If anyone doubts and blames God, then they need to read this scripture again to really get the picture. In no way did Jesus want this to happen and he is not responsible for the damage that has been done. The warning was there. We just didn’t notice it.
We weren’t being guided by the Holy Spirit and neither were the elders. It was just a con. So don’t blame God for all of this. He did not do it. The real Holy Spirit still exists and so does God and Jesus Christ and they have not changed. And the Bible proves true even more and more than when we first got conned.
Reply
nullandvoidboy says:
April 25, 2016 at 4:10 pm
Sorry Meredith….you can believe as you would like, but I’m sure more that some here would disagree and lump everything in the bible, with the “reality” of Greek mythology…..same kooky stories….different cultures
Reply
Julien says:
April 25, 2016 at 4:14 pm
Hypocrisy. Years of condemning the vatican and they are no different. There where always whispers, gossip but I never saw an adult really do anything about it.
Reply
Kathryn says:
April 25, 2016 at 4:16 pm
Watchtower is a law unto themselves. They will have to be fined until they are on their knees before they will cooperate. I feel the reason Prince is in good standing with them is maybe because they hope to get a fortune from him. I guess.
Reply
Ready 4 to Fade says:
April 25, 2016 at 5:50 pm
My favorite quote in Spotlight: “If it takes a village to raise a child, you could also say it takes a village to allow one to be abused.” There is complicity in silence, everyone should be mandated by their own moral sense to report such a travesty.
Reply
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KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:
August 25, 2013 at 6:55 pm
With every word they reveal and “impart” far more than they ever intended…
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george says:
August 27, 2013 at 4:45 am
Sorry Cedars, I can only access the first video on my I pad. There are a lot of over sized play icons and they won’t work.
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Luke says:
October 27, 2013 at 5:27 pm
Continue the good work on this site that expose what Watchtower Organization really are — a fanatic end-time driven cult that only serve interests of its leaders. I left this
cult three years ago for good. My only regret is that I had not left the Watchtower Cult earlier! On Easter Sunday this year, I was baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and received into Eastern Orthodox Church, apostolic Church that preserved the Faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
Cedar, you have my blessings of your work on this site that
will yet help millions of JWs to see the truth of so-called ‘Truth’.
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Fred says:
November 2, 2013 at 12:09 pm
Forget taking your numbers from a 1974 yearbook if you question the amount of those killed, interned, etc get the numbers from the Holocaust museum. You forgot to mention the ‘JEWS’ were and its quoted several times in the Watchtower publications as it is related in the bible, “ONCE GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE” but they did not remain that because of their actions. Your quotes from WT publications are based on the latter that they fell out of favour in God’s eyes. They therefor were NOT written in an anti-Semitic nature. Many Jews have become JW’s over the years are they lesser beings because they were of Jewish blood?…ABSOLUTELY NOT! All races are equal so this video in my opinion is twisted in its presentation. Not to mention the ridiculous claim of Rutherford’s so called love letter to Adolf Hitler. No blinders on here, I have checked the facts. Sorry but this video paints an untruthful twist of events and statements about the WT as regards the comments on the Nazi’s and Jews.
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Palma says:
February 28, 2014 at 3:48 am
Hi everybody! Hi cedars!
I found this article about a discovery in egypt that brings light to the origin of story of joseph in the bible.
What do you think?http://www.davidovits.info/the-lost-fresco-and-the-bible-my-new-book-in-french/
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Idris says:
March 27, 2014 at 8:12 am
Thank you for this page, it has been a great help to me, as I seek the truth of the word of God, however I noticed in the video ‘Does the Bible speak of ‘Paradise Earth’ the speaker quotes Luke 21v43 twice, regarding Jesus word on the cross, there should be a correction note as the verse he mentions is in Luke 23 v 43.
Keep up the good work
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Julia Orwell says:
July 17, 2014 at 3:47 am
Been to internationals before and this elaborate souvenir thing is entirely new. The last one I went to in 2009, the last ones they had, had nothing like this so it’s not a matter of you having not noticed it in the past, it’s a matter of it being a new phenomenon.
I theorize that the wt motives for this involve keeping the masses busy and therefore obedient. Jws would volunteer to do this because there are no other legitimate outlets for creative expression. Armageddon being near has nothing to do with it: it’s about keeping the sheeple busy and happy. Making stupid trinkets is also a team building activity as it involves jws working together, thus reinforcing the herd mentality jws have.
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frankie fernandez says:
February 27, 2015 at 4:44 pm
dear friends I was baptized in 1974. Thank God I am no longer a member of the WT. Free at last and oh what a relief it is. A member of my former congregation who I considerd my best friend molested a minor. There was a big argument amognst the elders on the judicial committee. One elder who was a maverick, wanted to notify the police. But, instead they followed the instuctions of the society. They kept this crime against the child, hush hush. So as not to tarnish the name of Jehovah. But in reality it was a coverup to protect the wt’s reputation. Meanwhile this poor child that was raped has to carry the heavy burden of a victim for the rest of thier lives without compensation and without justice. While the abuser has remaind a member in good standing. The congregation he is attending now has not been notified that he is a sexual preditor.
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Holy Connoli says:
November 17, 2015 at 1:14 am
Frankie.If I were you I would turn him into the police now even though it may have been several years ago he committed this crime. Many sexual predators get turned in years later after the crime is reveled. At the very least he will be investigated and his Name will be mud for being a creep.
He deserves it and so does the WT for its NON protection of the flock and not caring for the victim but only their phony reputation.
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Lesley HUmphreys-Jones says:
February 15, 2016 at 10:10 am
Tell the police.
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Kirtley W. Burggraf says:
March 11, 2015 at 11:16 am
Tell me, since governing body members are elected (replacing someone who dies) at what point do do they become “divinely inspired” or “spirit guided”? Were they always thus in the lower ranks or does this just “happen” the moment that they are appointed? What’s Watchtower’s take on this?
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Alone in MD says:
March 31, 2015 at 6:00 pm
Regards your video on the Memorial Service. I am one of those “non believers” married to a baptized witness. I go to just keep the peace but I’ve made it known that I consider this service one of the worst religious ceremonies that I have ever been to. “Anointed What”. Also it was announced at last years meeting that “this may be the last memorial service”. They are at it again. Thanks for the great videos.
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frankie fernandez says:
May 10, 2015 at 9:50 pm
IF CHRIST WAS ENTHRONGED IN 1914, WHY ARE THE WITNESES STILL CELEBRATING THE MEMORIAL? CHRIST SAID THAT AFTER HIS ARRIVAL NO ONE WAS TO CELEBRATE THE MEMORIAL .ALSO HE SAID THAT THE DAY OF HIS PRESENSE, IT WILL BE LIKE LIGHTNING FROM ONE POINT OF THE EARTH TO ANOTHER. LIGHTNING TRAVELS AT THE SPEED OF 3500 MILES PER SECOUND. SO IT WILL TRAVEL AROUND THE GLOBE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE. HE ALSO SAID THAT ALL EYES WILL SEE HIM. NOT LIKE THE WTS THAT SAYS WE ARE IN HIS INVISIBLE PRESENSE.
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pj wilcox says:
July 31, 2015 at 3:21 am
I watched the latest video of the inept elder being questioned by the commission. Who prepared this man for testimony? You all are aware of the dentist who shot Cecil the lion in Kenya? Well his life is over. He is in hiding. What he did ,did not break laws in Kenya and his is in a world of trouble with public sentiment. But this elder being questioned is far worse. He covered deeds that drove people to think of killing themselves. Should he not go into hiding? Is his life over? Has he know conscience? Emotion, caring? You know the answer. Bet ya, damage control is working overtime on this.
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Adrian says:
September 8, 2015 at 3:32 am
I think the Royal Commission videos demonstrate that fragility of the governance within the WT society. Yes, it’s an Australia branch issue but cross examination only points to the seat of control on which the governing body members sit. Everything starts and stops with the governing body, they set the policy but where are they? Sitting comfortably in NY watching from a distance ready to abdicate any responsibility whatsoever. A governing body governs and leads but I see no leadership I see the followers talking and being bashed around the head with questions, all too easy for the legal team.
However, it might just be me but does anyone else not see the lawyer’s gap in knowledge regarding the fundamental rationale for the WT society policies, they fall back in their comfort zone knowing that they can say ‘well we don’t have the authority to go beyond the bible.’
It’s this gap in knowledge of the legal representatives which the WT society exploit. I mean nobody is going to ask ‘ where actually did this translation come from anyway?’ What were the academic qualifications of the translators? Is there a possibility that you have interpreted things wrongly or even worse, translated things incorrectly? If there’s a possibility that your interpretation on how to deal with modern day child abuse cases in congregations may be flawed, then are you in agreement that your policies could result in lasting harm to victims of abuse? In my view that translation is the ‘elephant in the room’ every scholar knows it’s perverse but no one is holding this cult to account. So easy to say it’s all in the bible but should they really be saying it’s all in the NWT instead?
The WT society in the videos almost give of an innocence as if to say, ‘ but that’s what we understand from the scriptures’, and I think it works in their favor, but a savvy legal representative would do well to tease out the basis for the rendering of certain verses on which doctrine, policy and organisational decisions are based. So far the WT Society appears to be one step ahead because their authority is not a person but a book, which they are ‘only trying to understand and live by’. Expose the origin of the NWT and the basis for so many ridiculous uncaring decisions is called into question.
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Rick Viger says:
November 10, 2015 at 3:26 pm
Thanks John for all you do with your videos.
I’m an ex JW for 40 years now. I hope your videos reach some witnesses and make them think. For all of you that have left Watchtower remember you made the right decision.
Reply
S.T. says:
November 24, 2015 at 9:48 pm
I was wondering if anyone has heard that Jehovah’s witnesses are telling there congregations that the end of this system could have only hours left? My sister who is a Jehovah’s Witness said they are preaching this at the congregations. Has anyone else heard this?
Reply
Paul says:
April 3, 2016 at 10:24 pm
Indoctrination and mind control in its purest form. Will the BS never end, and is hard for me to understand why JW’S put up with this.
Reply
ian York says:
April 13, 2016 at 4:15 pm
It is hard to fathom how anybody could believe in the legitimacy of Watchtower’s claim to be God’s only organization on earth today when considering it started with the likes if this oaf. One would have to have a belief in predestination, an unscriptural concept, in order to square the circle of the now regarded apostate beliefs if the founder members and today’s dogma.
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