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I need the sample presentations for the Awake magazine April 2016
by nevaagain 6 days ago 2 Replies latest 3 days ago   jw friends
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nevaagain
nevaagain 6 days ago

Hello friends,
I need the sample presentations for the Awake magazine April 2016. Similar to the ones here:http://www.jw-archive.org/post/136716562488/february-2016-sample-presentation-videos
Those are for February, I need them for April. I cant seem to find them on jw.org.
A transcript would also help.
Thanks in advance!
 
Atlantis
Atlantis 5 days ago

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5769199221735424/2016-april-presentation-videos
.
Petra!
 
nevaagain
nevaagain 3 days ago
thank you! :smile:

 

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Any other teenagers on here?
by BlackWolf 6 days ago 21 Replies latest a day ago   jw friends
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BlackWolf
BlackWolf 6 days ago
I'm 16 and it seems like most the people on this forum are adults. I would think since most teenagers have tablets/smartphones there would be more on here but maybe not? It would be nice to meet some other young people. :smile:
 +3 / -0
stan livedeath
stan livedeath 6 days ago

i'm a teenager.
been one for over 50 years now.
 +13 / -0
gma-tired2
gma-tired2 6 days ago
Stan beat me too it. I am a teen at heart. I wish I knew some teens for you but the teens I know now were raised as ordinary teens without all the restrictions.
 
BlackWolf
BlackWolf 5 days ago
Well thanks anyway :smile: I'm just surprised that there aren't any others on here.
 
Skedaddle
Skedaddle 5 days ago
I'm sure there's loads of teenage JW's out there like yourself BlackWolf looking to socialize with others the same age - why not start something up and bring them to you - that could be really popular?! Maybe you can find some younger ones on exjw reddit?
 
Divergent
Divergent 5 days ago
I'm in my 20's, with the heart of a teen =)
 
berrygerry
berrygerry 5 days ago
the younger ones generally hang on www.reddit.com/r/exjw

 +2 / -1
zeb
zeb 5 days ago
Hi teen, another oldie here whats your fav subject at school? Mine was art.
 
Divergent
Divergent 5 days ago

She's homeschooled, Zeb...
 
MrsR-Awaken
MrsR-Awaken 5 days ago

I'm 25 but honestly feel like 18... teen at heart always
 

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Any other teenagers on here?
by BlackWolf 6 days ago 21 Replies latest a day ago   jw friends
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SpunkedTeen
SpunkedTeen 5 days ago

Im 18 ,I havent been on here in a while though.
 
BlackWolf
BlackWolf 5 days ago
Well thanks everybody. I was hoping to find somebody else who is awake, whose parents are still in to be my friend. That way we don't have to be fake with each other and our parents won't know anything about it :wink: I live in Florida so if you know anybody like that around here, let me know. I'll definitely check out the reddit though.
 +2 / -0
KateWild
KateWild 5 days ago

My son is 14 and he might be interested in getting an account.....he has similar circumstances to you and you both might be able to support one another
Kate xx
 +3 / -0
Old Goat
Old Goat 5 days ago
I'm 88, almost 89. My body is falling apart, but in my heart I'm still 17. Most JW teens find a home on social media and quietly fade or are "secret rebels". Being a teen and a Witness is a hard life.

 +4 / -0
Dis3
Dis3 5 days ago
Heyy, I'm 16 also. My mum told me about you and I would love to talk to you because we would obviously have many a thing to talk about what with being brought up as JW's. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: I will privately message you if you like? xxx
 +3 / -0
Skedaddle
Skedaddle 5 days ago

Hey Dis3 I see you've just joined up so a big welcome. You might want to mention what username your mum has to Blackwolf. Everyone needs to stay safe on here, ok honey. Have fun
 
Dis3
Dis3 5 days ago
Hey Skedaddle, thankyou! My mum's account is disillusioned2. I'm still getting used to this haha :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: xx
 +2 / -0
Skedaddle
Skedaddle 3 days ago

Ah, I see what you did there with your handle - Disillusioned2, Dis3. Cute!
We should bump this thread to catch more friends for you guys. When I remember I'll bump it for you. You guys should do the same.
Calling all teenagers - introduce yourselves!
 +1 / -0
raven
raven 2 days ago
I am no longer a "teen" but as the rest have stated, a teen at heart! I am 21. BUT I do know the struggles of being raised in the organization... It was a dark place (still is) in my life. If you ever want to chat we are all here for support.

 
Nathan Natas
Nathan Natas 2 days ago

I'm 66, is that close enough? I'm as hip as all getout!
Sinatra is THE GREATEST, isn't he?
CAN YOU DIG IT?
There aren't many teens on here because we're a bunch a' creepy old people.
YOU will be a creepy old person in just 50 years, and take it from me, time flies!
 

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Topic Summary
i'm 16 and it seems like most the people on this forum are adults.
i would think since most teenagers have tablets/smartphones there would be more on here but maybe not?
it would be nice to meet some other young people.



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Any other teenagers on here?
by BlackWolf 6 days ago 21 Replies latest a day ago   jw friends
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wifibandit
wifibandit 2 days ago

Hit us up over at https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw but not from your regular reddit. Make a throwaway so it doesn't get you busted.
 +1 / -0
Nathan Natas
Nathan Natas a day ago

Some day in the unforeseeable future, Black Wolf, you will possibly recall the wisdom that Old Goat offered you when he said, "I'm 88, almost 89. My body is falling apart, but in my heart I'm still 17."
It's true...unless you are looking in a mirror, in your mind you will forever be the "you" that you are in your late teens. Sometimes you will catch your reflection by surprise and be startled, perhaps thinking you are seeing your father in the mirror.
Life is funny, and strange.
 

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Topic Summary
i'm 16 and it seems like most the people on this forum are adults.
i would think since most teenagers have tablets/smartphones there would be more on here but maybe not?
it would be nice to meet some other young people.



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by Simon 6 months ago
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Russia threatens to shut down branch
by wannaexit 6 days ago 5 Replies latest 5 days ago   jw friends
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wannaexit
wannaexit 6 days ago
https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/russia/threaten-shutdown-jw-national-headquarters/
 +1 / -0
GrreatTeacher
GrreatTeacher 6 days ago

"Unprecedented move?"
Weren't they banned in Russia for years?
 +2 / -0
jwleaks
jwleaks 5 days ago

The picture that Watchtower is using to support their news [see screen shot below] is completely unrelated and inappropriate. Nothing more than sensationalist propaganda. Below is the official caption for the photo from Getty Images:
With the Kremlin (L) and St.Basil's Cathedral (R) in the background Interior Ministry troops cordon one of the entrances to the Red Square in Moscow, on December 10, 2011, during an authorized opposition protest against the alleging mass fraud in the December 4 parliamentary polls. Tens of thousands of election protesters turned out today in Moscow and other major cities across Russia in open defiance to strongman Vladimir Putin's 12-year rule.



 +2 / -0
Mephis
Mephis 5 days ago

Some background from HuffPost recently, echoing many of the other reports I've linked on similar threads about this not just being a JW issue:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/armine-sahakyan/hopes-of-religious-freedo_b_9509396.html

Many people expected a flowering of faith when the Soviet Union disintegrated in 1991.
But it hasn’t happened, largely because the countries that emerged from the ashes of the USSR have repressed most religions, the main exceptions being Russian Orthodox Christianity and certain brands of Islam.
The repressed have included denominations of Christianity that are widespread in other countries, such as Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans and Presbyterians.
As with other regrettable trends in the former Soviet Union, Russia has set the tone for the repression of religion.
 
zeb
zeb 5 days ago
Perhaps the Russians have been observing the goings on at the ARC and now the inquiry in the UK.
 +1 / -0
Barrold Bonds
Barrold Bonds 5 days ago
zeb: Nah. It's been well documented in the news and on this site. The Russian government is basically going after anyone who is not a white heterosexual member of the Russian Orthodox Church.
 

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Touching scene from angel-A
by sillygirlforgotpassword 6 days ago 4 Replies latest 5 days ago   jw experiences
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sillygirlforgotpassword
sillygirlforgotpassword 6 days ago

I was going through a pretty rough patch the last couple of weeks after a breakup, a "vacation" spent at my parents, some health scares and other random thoughts the realization I'm not 25 and as toned and consistently fresh faced anymore (feel free to call me shallow because that I am :wink:. I fully agree that we aren't to worry about aging, but aging gracefully!
2 weeks at home spent being harassed by my parents for not being up to the spiritual mark didn't help either. other bad memories were relived including some about being sent away to boarding school when barely 5 (I still have abandonment issues), being locked alone in an a dark tiny room while told there were rats on the floor etc. all of this sent me to a depressive state.
I met someone very recently who's helping me feel better through something called "healing technique". Too early to say if it's really helping yet but I'm liking it so far.
Anyway I was shown this video at a time when my self worth was at a pretty low point. Taken from a recent French Luc Besson movie. To those that haven't seen it it's really worth a watch :smile:

https://m.
 +3 / -0
nonjwspouse
nonjwspouse 5 days ago
wow, that was awesome!

 
xjwsrock
xjwsrock 5 days ago
That's powerful
 +1 / -0
scoobydont
scoobydont 5 days ago

This is quite moving. Makes the eyes steam up a bit recalling the days when one was in quite similar situation.
Grateful to have survived those days. And I hope you pull through your "dark tunnel" safely and soon enough.
Have a great day.

 +2 / -0
Witness My Fury
Witness My Fury 5 days ago

I need a 6 foot blonde. It has been decided!
I hope you are doing better sillygirl.
 +2 / -0

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NOW it's Important
by TheLiberator 6 days ago 25 Replies latest 5 days ago   jw experiences
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TheLiberator
TheLiberator 6 days ago
I have spent 45 years of my life sacrificing my soul to the Watchtower. Twenty-five of those years as a MS/Elder. I gave every moment to them. Even if no one was going to show up for service on New Year's day, I was there to take the lead. If one could not give that public talk, I gave it. I sacrificed fun and rest time to slave with blood, sweat, and tears, for the Watchtower. I "maxed out" on privileges. At the time, nothing else was more important. You get my point. Many of you know exactly what I mean.
Just recently I have been thinking about some in the organization that really irritate me. It really angered me when I had conversations with them recently. Perhaps you know the kind of people I will describe. I have a couple relatives that have been in the "truth" for years, but either did nothing in the organization or did not really do anything extra, such as ms or elder. Just did the basics like others. Two of these individuals were fire captains. Lived at the station for a couple of weeks each month. Of course, they missed meetings, service, and didn't qualify for privileges due to schedule. One even filled his time off at the station with truck driving. There wives did not need to work. One never worked a day in her life. They got all the benefits. Decent pay, medical, bonus packages, and retirement. I have another relative who is an unbelieving husband. He enjoyed the people at the meetings and assemblies. I believe he really thought he was a witness. I always tried to convince him of baptism. But of course, there was always a reason why he wasn't ready. He wanted to make sure he had an affection for Jehovah. (Whatever)You and I know that there is a HUGE difference between an unbeliever and a baptized witness.
Now with the unbeliever, he is getting older and is now thinking more of spirituality. So when he found out about how I have quickly abandoned the organization, he seemed upset with me. He would start to defend the Watchtower. He tried to question my motives about leaving. I explained to him that he has ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA of what it means to be a witness. I explained how he has spent decades being a free thinker, making his own decisions about how to use his time, and is clueless to our way of life. Oh, BUT NOW the organization is so important. Now it is important when YOU decide it is. Where were you when I was encouraging you and working like a dog for the Watchtower? I want relief from this Watchtower crap, and now you are telling me how important it is. The other two relatives finally retired and are now reaping the benefits. Oh, BUT NOW spirituality is important. Now you are a ms and now everyone should be sacrificing their very soul to the gb. You now look down on me for allowing my son to live on a college campus but you spent years living with those"worldly" workmates at the station.
It is those types that anger me. In fact I even get angry at young people who never did anything in the organization, but now they discovered TTATT. I see them crying now, simply because they viewed the Watchtower as an insurance policy, something they can go back to, when THEY needed it. Anyway, a long post but I just get irritated that I am the evil one now, NOW that THEY finally decide what is important to them.



 +38 / -5
Village Idiot
Village Idiot 6 days ago
Welcome to the club Liberator.

 +3 / -0
TheLiberator
TheLiberator 5 days ago
Just so people will know, I am not really new here. Just had sign in/sign out issues and so had to start from scratch. Same name. Just a different face.
 +3 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 5 days ago


So when he found out about how I have quickly abandoned the organization, he seemed upset with me. He would start to defend the Watchtower. He tried to question my motives about leaving. I explained to him that he has ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA of what it means to be a witness.
Some of the most Rabid Defenders of the Watchtower..
.

.................................Have Never..
...........GOTTEN OFF THEIR ASS TO BE A JW ..
..https://desertpeace.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/armchairgeneral.jpg
 +10 / -0
LongHairGal
LongHairGal 5 days ago

THELIBERATOR:
Reading your post I feel your pain about the hypocrisy and the frustration you must feel, but I was your opposite in a way.
I was the single woman with the full-time job who was CRITICIZED by those who already earned their secure living and THEN got active; OR...stupid women with worldly husbands who worked forty years to provide them with a comfortable life!! But, yet these bastards sat in car groups and criticized somebody like me!
Thankfully, I never quit my full-time job and am now retired. I would never give a dime to this religion and the people who criticized me can go to hell.
The Witness religion is filled with hypocrisy from top to bottom and clueless individuals who judge everybody.
These people you describe never did much in the religion but never learned TTATT..and now all of a sudden want to get involved in the religion now that they are financially secure and retired!! I can feel your anger at the irony of it. I always felt a similar frustration when talking to 40 yrs inactive JWs who STILL think the religion is the "truth"!
But, in your instance the anger and outrage would be more. But, that's how it is in this sick religion!
 +15 / -0
KiddingMe
KiddingMe 5 days ago

Welcome! I get where your coming from. My mom was the same way with me when I started studying with JW's. I was raised a Catholic but we were not regular, but once I started studying, she started trying to get me back to church. I went to a few services, but I could sense how unauthentic the gesture was. I think it helped pushed me deeper in with the witnesses.
We also caught also flak for allowing our child to move on campus this year. We have a family member that don't attend the meetings but pressures our children to get baptized because the end is so near and they want to see them in the new system. What kind of crap is that?
Anyway, hopefully you won't let them anger you too much. As I'm sure your aware, you came to the right place to vent.
 +3 / -0
life is to short
life is to short 5 days ago

I totally understand where you are coming from. My husband and I lived on nothing $3,000 a year when we were first married and that was in the US in 1987. My husband was gone all the time being an elder we never had a true marriage. We had all the crazy ones in the hall dumped on us. We were hit up for money and rides all the time.
We went to Bethel and were there for over two years which fact just seemed to make a lot of the JW's mad. I will never forget one elder laughing at my husband and myself saying that we were lying when we told him we lived on $200 a month. I got to ride around in the car listening to everyone having date nights with their husband and buying new cars, and homes etc while we crammed 5 to 6 people in our Honda Civic because no one else would use their cars.
I am bitter now looking back at all we gave up and for what, so I totally get where you are coming from.
LITS
 +14 / -0
wannaexit
wannaexit 5 days ago
Hi Liberator, I think those of us that went the extra mile for the organization feel as you. Let it all out here. We undertand.

 +3 / -0
kairos
kairos 5 days ago

This experience rings true and dear to me.
A very long time and close friend of mine is shunning me.
He is also a fire/EMT. He has always been a spiritual sloth.
Inactive, misses meetings for 'any reason'.
Now he's 'loyal'.
We really were like brothers. We went on fishing trips and we wouldn't shower or shave for a week. Spitting sunflower seed *everywhere*.
We'd open the truck door and seeds would fall out. Pretty gross, but we just didn't care. Tailgate lunches between fishing hole hopes. We'd drive 700 miles in search of fish. It was really because of our friendship. I miss him terribly and I know he is tormented.
His fire station is one mile from my house in a rural area, so I see him in passing from time to time as he attends to emergencies.
Last week he was literally 200 yards from my driveway directing traffic as they recovered a wrecked vehicle. I rode my bike over there and just looked at him. Didn't wave. Just sat and watched. Very sad.
Back over the years, I spent countless attempts to reactivate or encourage him to go in service with me. I was genuinely trying to help my friend.
I'm wicked now in his eyes...
 +10 / -0
Xanthippe
Xanthippe 5 days ago

Welcome TheLiberator. I understand how you feel. My husband was a MS from about 18 then an elder. Always busy, always another talk to prepare. There was never time for us. We regular pioneered after school, he for 15 years, me for ten. We thought people were going to die otherwise. We left exhausted and broken after reading Crisis of Conscience.
Anyway, a long post but I just get irritated that I am the evil one now, NOW that THEY finally decide what is important to them

I understand because when we left my dad, never a witness though he attended the odd meeting, started to criticise me for leaving even though my mum treated him as an unbelieving husband and her terrible problem all his married life. Now my sisters who have been doing very little for decades except being 'very ill' have nothing to do with me. My brother is too busy eldering to think about his widowed sister and my fatherless child. They specialise in hypocrisy, these people. We understand your anger.
Having said that, it was my sister's birthday yesterday but she didn't celebrate it I'm sure. Sixty-five and still in the cult. So at 45 you have done well and have half your life still ahead. Welcome to freedom🌹


 +5 / -0

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NOW it's Important
by TheLiberator 6 days ago 25 Replies latest 5 days ago   jw experiences
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jookbeard
jookbeard 5 days ago

"some things that irritated me" how long a list do you want? my last few years were spent dealing with irritations on a daily basis;
incompetence
favouritism
nepotism
hypocrisy
double standards
dishonesty
megalomania
abuse
mental torment
lies
arrogance
stupidity
pedantry
pig headedness
stubbornness
I could go on.
 +4 / -0
Je.suis.oisif
Je.suis.oisif 5 days ago

Welcome. That's a mighty long time to flog a dead horse. Now that you've discovered that's what you've been doing all that time.
I noticed that same attitude last week with my visiting sister-in-law. Neither of them are JW's, but she works with a few. They're all nice people. Not an issue. But I asked her what they thought about the ARC and how the WTBT$ dealt with child abuse worldwide. Her attitude to me was dismissive & patronising. I registered it but moved on.
I've just erased what I was going to add. But you've captured it in your OP. Ease up on the resentment though and channel your mental energy into living what's left of your life.
 +1 / -0
James Jack
James Jack 5 days ago

This couple in South Florida, who helped "raise my wife in the Truth", active Elder for 30 years, his wife and him both Pioneered and moved several times" to serve where the need is great" for another 20 years, with over 50 Years of "Faithful Service to the Organization", gave up going and are now inactive for the last 7 years!
I asked him what happened. He said "him and his wife lived a full Theocratic Life for Jehovah. Doing everything the Organization and the Traveling Brothers told them to do, like work Part Time, Regular Pioneer, Serve where the Need is Great. Armageddon is just ready to break out at any time. We heard that same line of Reasoning for many, many years. And those who could not do what we did were considered weaker than us!"
"They worked Full time, had Families, token Field Service, missed a lot of Meetings. They were able to retire with benefits, plenty of money, a home paid off and spend time with their Grand Children. They live a comfortable life now and their service to Jehovah is still the same."
"At 62, I tried to collect Social Security, but only qualified to receive $480 a month, not even enough to pay rent! We quick Pioneering, took on Full Time employment in our 60's, to try to increase our SSI benefits. My body gave out when I hit 67. We stopped going to the Kingdom Hall because we have been lied too all those years. That was 8 years ago. I am now 75, can't work, live in Government housing, get food stamps, and my wife is still about able to hold down a Part Time job answering phones so that we have a little change for necessities."
I said:"That is why 5 years ago, I quit Pioneering at 50,(The Overlapping Generations change woke me up), to focus on planning for retirement with whatever measure of time and health I have left."
 +6 / -0
flipper
flipper 5 days ago

LIBERATOR- I mean, I understand what you're saying- sure- I was born into the JW cult back in the late 1950's and my dad was a City Overseer, my brother long time at Bethel, and me a Ministerial Servant /Pioneer for about 6 years. I stopped doing that stuff when- like you- I felt I was being " used " by the WT Society quite literally in a negative way.
To me it seems you may have been deceived and hoodwinked into thinking by the WT Society that whether or not you were deemed " spiritual " depended on if you advanced in position in the organization. That WAS and still IS the WT Society's view . Being " spiritual " in JW terminology had nothing to do with how kind, compassionate, or loving a person was- it had everything to do with the amount of hours turned in, how many times they answered at meetings, or how regular they attended meetings. Being a good person in WT land has nothing to do with cultivating the alleged " fruitages of the spirit ". It's all about how well we did in WT functions, not actually BEING loveable people.
And THAT ideology my friend is what I have a big problem with the WT Society over. If you are going to get angry towards people- why not get angry at the idiots who RUN this organization the Governing Body and the other WT leaders who MADE these ridiculous guidelines in the first place that determine if a JW is considered " spiritual " or " progressing " ? The fellow JW's you spoke angrily about - who knows ? Maybe they didn't WANT to reach out because they had inner doubts themselves ? Or they just were wanting to stay in the JW cult because of family ?
If anything having been raised in a family by a self serving self righteous elder dad who thought getting position and praise from others was all he ever wanted in his own life - while he sneered at others who didn't " reach out " or " accomplish much " within the organization - reminds me that the " competition " that was stirred up among those we thought were good " brothers & sisters " - competing over who would get assembly parts, talks on the platform all the time, or who would grease up ( or jerk off ) the Circuit Overseer with green hand shakes to " progress and become more spiritual " ? I mean I hope you see my point. The whole WT system of allegedly " reaching out " was totally flawed. It fostered competition and animosity between people who " reached out " and those who did not. It had NOTHING to do with being a good person. Just had a lot to do with being a good Nazi, or WT soldier doing the bidding for the WT Society's purpose.
I see and understand your anger. I believe you need to redirect your anger more accurately at the WT leaders for the criminal policies they have regarding child abuse, and how thousands of innocent minor children have lost their lives due to not receiving life saving blood transfusions. This WT criminal organization needs to be taken down. THOSE are the important issues all of us as ex-JW's are facing - not whether Brother Joe Blow or Sister Mary Irregular never " reached out " and that angered you. Why not hope that these people will open their eyes about the WT Society's crimes and join you in leaving the organization as well ? We were ALL mind controlled by WT Society doctrines, even you one who thought he was " doing good ". Once we all exit the organization it doesn't matter WTF we did inside the org. Title of your thread should read NOW IS IMPORTANT not Now it's important. Just trying to give a different view here. You feel how you feel I respect that- but how about moving on into the now and the future and it may bring happier moments for you ? Take care, I'm glad you are here. Hang in there Peace out, Mr. Flipper
 +10 / -0
Iown Mylife
Iown Mylife 5 days ago

Liberator, I appreciate your post and wanted to click Like. Once again I clumsily clicked on Dislike when I didn't mean to, sorry for that.
We were friends with a pio sis and her husband who were a popular couple. He made friends with everyone but never made a move to become an approved associate or get baptized until he retired from his job. THEN suddenly he's doing the whole deal. Oh and her nephew is an elder.
Special things for special people.
Marina
 +2 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 5 days ago

Many of us can relate to your "best years of my life wasted" experience. I certainly can! By the time I truly woke up to TTATT, the best years of my life had passed me by, so I concentrated on rescuing our kids.

It's painful for me to look back and see how things "could have been". It makes me both angry and saddened. Fortunately none of our children were snared by the Cult. They are past college and pursuing careers that pay them well and they live fairly happy and successful lives, and most of all they are NOT on the JW Hampster wheel.

We now have young grandchildren who also will not be enslaved or have their lives wasted by chasing the false promises of the WT Bullsh*t. My goal is now to help ensure that they are able to pursue and achieve to their maximum potential in life (though I doubt I have enough years left to witness it to completion).
Image result for hamster wheel
Doc

 +7 / -0
babygirl30
babygirl30 5 days ago

The eternal judgement is what I never understood...everyone ELSE can make a choice on how they want to act or what they want to do - but when YOU make choices, they all of a sudden have so much to say. It is forever frustrating and can make you think you are losing your mind...their 'circular' reasoning.
There was a sister in my cong when I was in who had married a non JW and was Df. She came back, retired, and became a pioneer. Now she would bring her husband around to diff JW parties and all, and he would come to a few mts here and there, but never did more then that. But she was who they used in demos and assemblies to speak against marrying outside the org and she would talk about how hard it was, how she was still trying to get him to come into the 'truth'...blah blah blah. Her husband ends up getting really sick, and I guess that pushes his spirituality into overdrive, cause he starts studying. He eventually gets baptized and they become this 'sooo happy' couple in the cong. So, there is a young pioneer sister who is dating a non-JW in the hall during this time (who is close to the older retired sis) and this older sis and her now baptized hubby have the nerve to TELL the elders about it together. Mind you, they did the same damn thing, but because their situation changed I guess they felt they had the right to speak up since their situation turned over and became RIGHT when the husband got baptized.
 +5 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 5 days ago

The Watchtower Corporation has been messing with people's heads for over a century, using emotive tactics of coercion to not only draw up attentions to its published goods but allure people into this publishing house as its own public sales representatives.

The early founders of the WTS. were responsible for setting up this delusion that this is god's exclusively chosen earthly publishing house and that he was the chief executive director to all that was written.
Well its not, it was built upon human ignorance, fear, exploitation and tainted commercialism.

 +4 / -0
ToesUp
ToesUp 5 days ago

Great post.
Yes, I agree with flippers post above. WT should be held accountable for it's actions but WT has created "little monsters" out of some of it's members. You all know those....self righteous, arrogant, judgmental do gooders. These ones can tell you how YOU need to improve, yet their life is a train wreck. Most of these ones suffer from depression, yet we are told they are the "happiest people one earth."
HYPOCRITES TO THE CORE!
 +6 / -0
LettMorrisSplaneit
LettMorrisSplaneit 5 days ago

: ToesUp
How I detest those "little monsters"!
We've all been duped and that's the reality, the length and degree to which we gave our all to the 'org' ... the more difficult it is to come to terms with it.
 +2 / -0

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Topic Summary
i have spent 45 years of my life sacrificing my soul to the watchtower.
twenty-five of those years as a ms/elder.
i gave every moment to them.



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NOW it's Important
by TheLiberator 6 days ago 25 Replies latest 5 days ago   jw experiences
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Giordano
Giordano 5 days ago

I can't write as good a reply as Mr. Flipper did but I can echo his statement. Being " spiritual " in JW terminology had nothing to do with how kind, compassionate, or loving a person was- it had everything to do with the amount of hours turned in, how many times they answered at meetings, or how regular they attended meetings.
So it boils down to ego. That's your reward you get the respect but not the love. You serve and ultimately you wind up with nothing.
Liberator mentioned: I have spent 45 years of my life sacrificing my soul to the Watchtower. Twenty-five of those years as a MS/Elder. I gave every moment to them.
Why? I thought the objective was to serve the heavenly father and his son. Instead you served a faulty man made publishing house with grand pretensions.
 I have a couple relatives that have been in the "truth" for years, but either did nothing in the organization............... . Two of these individuals were fire captains. Lived at the station for a couple of weeks each month. Of course, they missed meetings, service, and didn't qualify for privileges due to schedule. There wives did not need to work. They got all the benefits. Decent pay, medical, bonus packages, and retirement.
Let me get this straight they spent their lives serving their community by saving lives and property. Being on call for weeks at a time. They were the ones who ran into the burning building looking for a kid hiding under the bed. You were the guy across the street trying to get someone to take a cheesy WT publication. Or as an Elder snooping around to get some dirt on a baptized JW?
And your pissed at them???



 +4 / -2
Pete Zahut
Pete Zahut 5 days ago

You are preaching to the choir LIBERATOR...we know and feel your pain. The thing that is most maddening is that after all we've done and been through, to current JW's, none of it matters and it's as if we don't even exist. It's much the same as how an older person feels when some members of the younger generation come along and treat them as if nothing existed before they came onto the scene.

At least with the Internet and these forums, we can air our grievances so to speak. Imagine how it was for the thousands upon thousands of former JW's in our position a decade or more ago. They had to fade into the woodwork or resort to becoming "loud crazy apostates" just to have a voice.
We were oblivious to the JW's that went before us who threw their lives away slaving for the Watchtower and there are many current JW's slaving away now who will be in the same position in the years to come. The organization is a revolving door of individuals just coming in.....individuals caught up in the spin of activity or who are just along for the ride.....and individuals being spit out the other side.
This "organization" is being run by "victims" of the "organization". They have slaved for the organization all of their lives, worked their way up through the ranks and must now keep it going in order to sustain themselves in their old age.

I think, in order to keep from becoming bitter, it's probably best to focus on the momentary benefits that were gained when we were involved in Watchtower activities. Even if it was only a feeling of satisfaction or purpose or time we enjoyed in the company of others involved in what we thought was an important mission. That was then....this is now...we know better now....so the only thing left to do is to do the best we can within our own personal circumstances and be grateful that it wasn't worse.

 +1 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 5 days ago

If an organization or business which certain people are living off from provides food, shelter, clothing. medical and dental care, cars to drive with insurance. lets you travel all around the world and greeted as a noted celebrity and there is an endless amount of money to which to can use. which this year will be in the hundreds of millions.

ummmm ??? It becomes obvious why these elderly men who probably don't have any other source of retirement income would strive to keep this organization going to what this organization is offering to them.
So yes the alluring coercion, the deceptive lying and corruption will continue because when these guys die off there's assumingly going to be men standing at the door who will gladly to over their privileged and secure positions.

 +2 / -0
Ucantnome
Ucantnome 5 days ago

I have spent 45 years of my life sacrificing my soul to the Watchtower. Twenty-five of those years as a MS/Elder. I gave every moment to them. Even if no one was going to show up for service on New Year's day, I was there to take the lead.
My wife and I went out many Saturday mornings on our own after meeting for field service with the group and no one was going out. I've gone in service on many Christmas and New year's days along with many evenings.
I never reached out for a position as an servant or elder. I did pioneer from school.
I have found that those who seemed to be the weaker ones when I was young and were pursuing more schooling better jobs fast cars or being reproved for immorality are still in and some serving as elders today.
I'm glad I am where I am.


 +1 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 5 days ago

Living upon an delusion of wanting desire alone is never going to be a good human sociological endeavor .

One of the poignantly self supporting corruption that came out of the WTS is that mankind was supposedly living in the last days and a new order created by god was soon to come to replace the old system of things here on earth.
Well that may of been an advantageous expressive ideology from a publishing house to make in its inherent agenda to proliferate its literature to the public but it was tritely in avoidance of reality., which unfortunately created many sociology and physiological problems for people who became allured and entrapped believers to this propagation. 

 +2 / -0
Introvert 2
Introvert 2 5 days ago

BEST POST EVER Liberator, sincere thanks for sharing. Please take care and make the rest of you life the best of your life. I'm trying to and have found my stress level and blood pressure to have improved immensely since DA'ing. I was in on and off a little under 10 years converted on my own and thought I was privy to true 'Bible Study' There were many red flags that came up along the way but the 7 trumpets blasts ( hot air ) of revelation pointing to seven assemblies over a 7 year period in the WT history was too much. I realized that I had been duped then and there. Tried to salvage what I could a little longer but gradually became disillusioned and faded, then DA'ed after years of floundering. thanks to the ARC and the BlueDot.org I'm a second generation owner of a small machine and tooling works, came close to loosing all due to the brainwashing. Good luck mate and take care love you buddy we're here for you.
 +2 / -0

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Topic Summary
i have spent 45 years of my life sacrificing my soul to the watchtower.
twenty-five of those years as a ms/elder.
i gave every moment to them.



Related Topics
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Jehovah's Witness Teens 13 and 10 Commit Suicide in Wisconsin
by Tenacious a month ago
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Chapter 2 of the Novel "New Boy"
by new boy 15 days ago
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2002 radio interview with J.R. Brown, spokesman of WTBTS (The God Show)
by Gorbatchov 3 months ago
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Reasons for NOT Returning
by Saved_JW 3 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Brownstoner: How the Jehovah’s Witnesses Acquired Some of Brooklyn’s Most Insanely Valuable Properties
by AndersonsInfo 2 months ago



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The Invitations to the Kingdom Hall is Starting Up Again
by Wild_Thing 5 days ago 4 Replies latest 5 days ago   jw friends
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Wild_Thing
Wild_Thing 5 days ago

After 15 years, I thought my mom finally accepted that I am never coming back to the Kingdom Hall for any reason. Well ... I guess not.
This weekend, my nieces are staying with her because my JW sister (who is not speaking to me) is out of town. She invited me to go to lunch on Sunday. I said "sure"! She said, "Why don't you just come to the Kingdom Hall with us and we can go to lunch afterwards. You will see so and so there."
I am sure this sounds familiar with most of you.
I said, "Just let me know where you guys want to eat and I'll meet you there after your meeting."
She persisted, " I really wish you would go. I would love for you to meet some of my friends there, and it won't give me any false hope that you're coming back. You've told me before that's why you didn't want to ever come, and I have accepted that, so don't worry about that."
I said, "As I've said before, there are a million places in the world that I can also meet them besides the Kingdom Hall. Why don't you invite them to lunch with us!"
"Well, they would more likely come if you came to the meeting," she said.
"Yeah, I know that's how it works there and that's sad."
She finally dropped it, but sheesh! It sure doesn't sound like she's given up all hope!
 +8 / -0
tiki
tiki 5 days ago
Ahh go for the entertainment value....its not going to break you...how about if you were an ex-catholic and your mom wanted you to go to mass and meet up some friends and go out for drinks after...same thing different building.
 +0 / -5
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 5 days ago

If you go, and they run up with their love-bombing saying: "Wasn't that a great public talk or WT Lesson?", then you'll have the opportunity to ask them: "Just what point was it specifically that you consider great?"
[Wait for deafening silence.]
Doc

 +4 / -0
GrreatTeacher
GrreatTeacher 5 days ago

"Yeah, I know that's how it works there, and that's sad."
Perfect response. And, oh so true. It really is sad.
 +5 / -0
Wild_Thing
Wild_Thing 5 days ago

Well ... there is no way I am going. I haven't stepped one foot in a Kingdom Hall in 15 years, and I'm not starting now.
And tiki .... it is absolutely NOT the same as if she were Catholic. And to be honest ... I don't even want to eat lunch with any of the JWs from her Kingdom Hall.
Every time any of them start going on and on about how they want me to come to the KH, that they miss me and would love to see, blah, blah, blah, I offer to meet them somewhere for lunch, coffee, whatever ... this gives them an opportunity to show their true colors and true motive. The minute they actually take me up on the offer, I will know things are starting to change inside the org. And it is never going to happen.
 +5 / -0

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not all JW's are asleep
by Damascus 5 days ago 30 Replies latest 3 days ago   jw friends
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Damascus
Damascus 5 days ago

I am an 'active' JW but I do not agree with most of the doctrines inc blood, baptism, the memorial etc etc.I took the emblems at the memorial because I think we all should recognise and accept Jesus' command to remember him. Not for one minute do I think this is only for the so called anointed. I know it is full of man made error and that my fellow brothers and sisters are in a state of mindless, spiritual unawareness. However, they are victims of this organisation and they are sincere in wanting to do what is right. They are not capable at this time of understanding what is going on in reality. We have 6 elders and only one is a decent human being. So why am I still attending? Because I love God and I believe in Jesus' message to tell others of his kingdom which is coming. I don't preach the JW message and falsehoods when calling on people.

Is there anyone out there who feels the same?

 +9 / -0
Heaven
Heaven 5 days ago


Hey Damascus, you said: I think we all should recognise and accept Jesus' command to remember him.
You do realize that if you had been born in the Middle East you'd probably be saying the same thing about Mohammed or Vishnu or some other non-Christian god, right?

Damascus said: I believe in Jesus' message to tell others of his kingdom which is coming.
No, it is not. Islam is the religion that is growing, not Christianity. Better practice up on your Arabic.

 +9 / -5
freemindfade
freemindfade 5 days ago
Just don't stop looking for more truth. As long as you keep honestly digging you will find out not just what's wrong with jws but religion as a whole.
 +12 / -0
NVR2L8
NVR2L8 5 days ago

I grew up next to this Italian cafe and ran errands for the owner and some of the patrons who in return were very generous and protective of me. I heard rumours that they all may be involved in organized crime...you know how people are with their stereotypes. They are respected in the neighbourhood...regardless I don't consider myself one of them. I focus only on the good they do...
 +8 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 5 days ago
Damascus, it's interesting that you choose that name . In both Jeremiah and Isaiah Damascus was to be destroyed never to be rebuilt. Since those writtings the city has never been destroyed. This is just one of many prophecies that didn't come true... But yeah the kingdom of God is right around the corner maybe in another 2000 years. Keep studying my friend.
 +6 / -0
tiki
tiki 5 days ago
How is it you say you are an active jw but don't preach the jw message? I thought in order to be a jw you had to preach the jw message.
 +3 / -0
Damascus
Damascus 5 days ago

well I don't know for how much longer they will wait til they disfellowship me. I have already had 2 elders come and accuse me of apostate thinking but they didn't have two witnesses so they are just waiting to pounce on me. I don't do much ministry but when I do I just use the bible and no publications. All I want is to know the real truth, whatever it is. Everyone has their own individual journey to find it if they are looking but it really is a solitary existence when no one around you can see even the simplest things although I am sure there are many people out there.
It is irrelevant to me when the kingdom of God comes. I don't know if it will be in 2000 years or not. to me it doesn't matter. I

 +9 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 5 days ago

All I want is to know the real truth, whatever it is.
Image result for can you handle the truthImage result for can you handle the truth
.
It is irrelevant to me when the kingdom of God comes.
But I agree 100% with your thoughts on that. I think it will prove irrelevant to us as we will all have been long dead before it happens, if ever.
"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billion of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it." ~ attributed to Mark Twain

Doc

 +5 / -0
FayeDunaway
FayeDunaway 5 days ago
Keep up the fight, Damascus. Do what you believe, not what others tell you to believe. You're a good person and that you can see with your own eyes is commendable.
 +7 / -0
Heaven
Heaven 5 days ago
Damascus, it is good that you've seen through the lies within the JW religion. Now you can start working on the lies in the Bible. Conduct a comparative analysis of the 4 Gospels and get back to us about exactly what it is you can actually know about Jesus.

 +4 / -0

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not all JW's are asleep
by Damascus 5 days ago 30 Replies latest 3 days ago   jw friends
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Pete Zahut
Pete Zahut 5 days ago


So why am I still attending? Because I love God and I believe in Jesus' message to tell others of his kingdom which is coming. I don't preach the JW message and falsehoods when calling on people.
I completely understand this line of thinking and in the past wondered about doing this myself. Then I thought, if I do find interest at the door, where would I take them...why would I bring them to the Kingdom Hall if I don't really agree with a lot of important beliefs....how would I explain this to them especially during the Memorial while I was munching away on unleavend bread when the speaker just said it was only for the annointed ones? And what happens when the interested one becomes a JW and dies due to the blood issue....something I don't believe is correct. Would I be sort of responsible?

 +9 / -0
nowwhat?
nowwhat? 5 days ago
I feel the same way. I know where you are coming from. Petezahut makes good point too. That's why I have been inactive for 3 years
 +6 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon 5 days ago

I am an active JW but??????
I am an active ISIS but.
 +1 / -1
joe134cd
joe134cd 5 days ago
From time to time when I read experiences like yours. I have to wonder how it dosnt do your head in. I honestly thought I could play the same game, accepting TTATT while been an active witness. 18 months later and I was gone.
 +8 / -0
Damascus
Damascus 5 days ago

I am still an active JW but I am in transition and going thru a stage of detaching. I'm there but not there. Difficult to explain really as it is all like a nightmare where I am trying to separate the truth from lies. I dread meetings because I cant stomach the rubbish spouted out as being scriptural when I know it isn't. makes me want to throw up or scream but I look around my congregation and I feel such pity for them. Not in a superior way at all but it shouldn't be like this. The org is sowing such paranoia and distrust among us all. The elders are like hunters watching for any who they can 'behead' and throw their authority to crush them. It is really ugly what is happening. People put heir trust in the C.O. visit to sort it all out but he is just part of the machine and can't/wont do anything.
When I go on doors I just try to get people to look for themselves in the bible to see if there is anything positive in there for them. I discuss what they believe and their opinion because they can teach me and explore together what is important for them. To me we are all equally God's creation and on the same level and I don't invite ppl to the hall and I don't bring up JW teachings on most topics. If anyone talks about the blood issue etc I would say that I don't see where it says that in the bible and I know that soon I will get chucked out for having a different interpretation. I have a choice; keep silent and live a lie or quietly say and do what I believe and be thrown away.

 +4 / -0
Introvert 2
Introvert 2 5 days ago

Greetings D, check out these links you may find something you like. I DA'ed a couple months ago and consider my self as simply a Biblical Christian. Easy and straightforward like Jesus said it should be. Enjoy and let me know :
http://wernerbiblecommentary.org/
http://meletivivlon.com/
http://www.churchofgodandchrist.com/the_first_pact.php
 +2 / -0
Introvert 2
Introvert 2 5 days ago
D, I left for the very same reasons you stated above. The March 15 2015 WT was pivotal for me, as the GB was pointed to ad nauseam in that issue right at the very moment I though I could go back and sift through things like you are trying to do. I can't handle it and at the last assembly promptly had a panic attack during the WT review. DONE and GONE
 +3 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon 5 days ago

Damascus:What if you knocked on our door with a JW member who still believe, how
would the conversation go? Lets say you are working that day with an pioneer and you come to my
door and I tell you JW.org is not Jehovahs organization, I know because I was a elder.
 +4 / -0
Alive!
Alive! 5 days ago

I feel for your torment - I do agree that the Jw.org's culture creates paranoia, lack of trust and all manner of unhealthy behaviours amongst JWs.
Once your ears tune into the 'manipulative' language used in the literature - you realise you are not hearing the voice of Christ, but a different voice....the illustrations, the 'real life' stories - it wasnt a cynical heart that started to feel ill at ease with the nature of their communication to us and the world - it was a heart that actually hurt because I knew it was wrong, something was terribly wrong.
It sounds to me, like you know in your heart where this is heading - keep building on your inner strength - and if at times you feel overwhelmed by fear of what comes next - keep firm and ask yourself, would I wish this burden of conflict on anyone? It will help you to straighten up and face the music.....
 +1 / -0
Village Idiot
Village Idiot 5 days ago


Damascus:
I don't do much ministry but when I do I just use the bible and no publications.
You're on your way out which is where you should be.
 +2 / -0

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Topic Summary
i am an 'active' jw but i do not agree with most of the doctrines inc blood, baptism, the memorial etc etc.i took the emblems at the memorial because i think we all should recognise and accept jesus' command to remember him.
not for one minute do i think this is only for the so called anointed.
i know it is full of man made error and that my fellow brothers and sisters are in a state of mindless, spiritual unawareness.



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not all JW's are asleep
by Damascus 5 days ago 30 Replies latest 3 days ago   jw friends
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oppostate
oppostate 5 days ago

I think I understand your situation, Damascus.I think there are quite a few here who find themselves now, or have been, in a similar situation to you when awakening from the JW.0rganization's pall.
I've been attending still, but my mouth gets me in trouble, every time. If I say anything that deviates from current JW doctrine it gets reported to the elders and it's just so draining to have to explain yourself to these hounders. Introvert2's claim to be a "Biblical Christian" sounds about right for my own views also.
I'm also partaking because I continue to believe in Jesus as Christ and want to do as he requested in regards to memorializing his sacrificial death and resurrection.
There are a lot of people who've given up on religion of any kind on this forum. If you can put up with that then, as I do, you might find it a place where you can express how you feel and know some can understand what you're going through.
Meleti Vivlon's website is very good. I used to love Channel C too.

 +5 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon 5 days ago
Doesn't it insult your intelligence sitting there in the meetings each week?
 +2 / -0
John Free
John Free 5 days ago

Hello Damascus! I can understand where you are. I didn't realize it at the time but when I was waking up to the truth about the JW organisation it was traumatic. I knew that I would not obey the orgs blood policies, I was tuning in to the mind control measures the org uses. Still, I was torn since I was holding on to some teachings. I was in limbo, I was getting headaches all the time but didn't connect them to this mental trauma. 6 months after leaving I woke up one morning and realized I hadn't had a headache in months- the mental freedom of separating from this control group is immense. It took a while to find the courage to change my life, but I got there and realizing that its the strong ones; not the weak ones, that leave this manipulative group helped. Once you have woken up to the things youve mentioned there is no going back. I don't envy you for where you are at this time but I'm sure you'll find your own personal path too. Best wishes to you friend.
 +6 / -0
FayeDunaway
FayeDunaway 5 days ago

Please tell us your family situation and if anyone else is sympathizing with you in your close circle. Are you completely alone? You have probably a rough couple of years ahead, maybe more, depending on how many relationships you have and want to keep.
I held on to my belief in God, and even strengthened it, by letting go of fundamentalism. I joined another church. Everyone will have their own path, tho, and personalities play a big role in which way people go. It's the way it's supposed to be. The JW life is for one particular type of person, but people are more varied than that in reality (thank goodness!)
 +3 / -0
Bonsai
Bonsai 5 days ago

I loved Jesus too. I really did. Sermon on the mount? Best speech ever. Jesus was like king of the hippies preaching brotherly love and peace. It's too bad that he represented a Hebrew deity that, through he/she/its actions in the old testament represented none of what Jesus was preaching. It's too bad that Jesus believed in a global flood which never happened (study glaciology, geology and bristlecone pine core samples). It's too bad that he believed that Adam and Eve were the first humans, yet modern day discoveries prove that we humans have been making tools, hunting, loving and burying our dead for at least 100,000 years.
It's hard to let go of our Jehovah and Jesus teddy bears. We took them to bed and snuggled up with them every night thinking they would ward off all evil. It's hard to realize that a teddy bear is just a stuffed animal that can do nothing. All we can do as adults is follow the evidence and leave sentiment, agenda and superstition at the door.

 +7 / -3
Heaven
Heaven 5 days ago

Once I realized God didn't exist, my nightmares vanished.
Edited to add: This took years to discover. It is definitely a process and can be a very long one for some (like me).

 +4 / -2
John Free
John Free 5 days ago
Yes Bonsai its hard to let go. But at least we get fry-ups on Sunday mornings :grinning:
 +1 / -0
daringhart13
daringhart13 4 days ago

Simply asked.....why do you stay? What are you getting out of it?
 
millie210
millie210 4 days ago

Damascus, welcme, its nice to meet you.
I am curious, other than the elders , how do the other congregation members treat you? Do you get support there?
 +1 / -0
tor1500
tor1500 3 days ago

Hi Damascus,
I agree with you 100%...I'm active but I don't swallow all the stuff they say....When I go out in field service, I too rarely have the literature....I use the bible. Most of the time I say to the friends...I had the lit, but some of the friends needed them so I gave them up.
What I'm realizing most of them in their need praise. Whatever they didn't get at home, it seems the org. is supplying it for them. Many of them feel they don't have any worth & the only worth they have is in the org. I like you feel pity for them. Most of them need a pat on the back. If they put in one extra hour for field service, they must mention it. If they come home later, they'll call you & say, I just got home from service. I know the CO & his wife, I know this person is one of the anointed & so on. Most of them can't even stay home, their thoughts drive them into the streets (Field service, carts, hopeless return visits).
Most of the friends are nice but have issues. Well, I guess you can say that about most of the world. It's sad, just look around your hall(s) & see the sad faces...look at the young generation...their eyes are dull.
I go, listen, take what I need & spit out the rest...The bible is telling us to love one another....not just folks who look like you, vote like you, worship like you.
I, like you, believe in God & Jesus...Man has no idea what the bible is saying...it's man's interpretation to fit how they want you to think....The bible in the wrong hands can be dangerous.
I keep asking God, if I'm not supposed to be here...get me out but don't make it hurt (DA'd or DF'd).
Tor
 +0 / -1

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Topic Summary
i am an 'active' jw but i do not agree with most of the doctrines inc blood, baptism, the memorial etc etc.i took the emblems at the memorial because i think we all should recognise and accept jesus' command to remember him.
not for one minute do i think this is only for the so called anointed.
i know it is full of man made error and that my fellow brothers and sisters are in a state of mindless, spiritual unawareness.



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by Wonderment 2 months ago
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by Wonderment 2 months ago
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What's up with the HEBREWS translation?
by TTWSYF 4 months ago
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John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2
by Wonderment 4 months ago
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Chapter 2 of the Novel "New Boy"
by new boy 15 days ago



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not all JW's are asleep
by Damascus 5 days ago 30 Replies latest 3 days ago   jw friends
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contramundum
contramundum 3 days ago

Hi Damascus
I also feel very similar to you - I am still dragging myself to meetings (admittedly only 2 or 3 a month now) and spend the whole time wishing I was not there.
I listen with growing disbelief to the paper thin reasonings being parroted by unquestioning and uneducated men who have lost the ability to think for themselves and feel so sad as I look around the hall and see people I care about lapping it up , blind to how shallow and manipulative the teachings really are.
I have stopped going on the ministry because I could not in good faith promote a religion that I now see as deluded at best, harmful and destructive often. But it does worry me at times that I am not active in making disciples . I try to compensate by being a better, more `Christian` person.
Why do some of us keep going? We all have different reasons. For me, even though I no longer believe it is The Truth, there is a tiny voice in my brain that whispers to me "but what if it IS right?". The indoctrination and fear culture of 40+ years is tough to shake off.
CM
 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
i am an 'active' jw but i do not agree with most of the doctrines inc blood, baptism, the memorial etc etc.i took the emblems at the memorial because i think we all should recognise and accept jesus' command to remember him.
not for one minute do i think this is only for the so called anointed.
i know it is full of man made error and that my fellow brothers and sisters are in a state of mindless, spiritual unawareness.



Related Topics
Wonderment
How credible are NWT's critiques?: Allin and John 8:58. (2)
by Wonderment 2 months ago
Wonderment
How credible are NWT critiques? A look at Allin's evaluation of Jn 8:58.
by Wonderment 2 months ago
TTWSYF
What's up with the HEBREWS translation?
by TTWSYF 4 months ago
Wonderment
John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2
by Wonderment 4 months ago
new boy
Chapter 2 of the Novel "New Boy"
by new boy 15 days ago



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After 50 years Zealous Service, My Elder Friends goes Inactive
by James Jack 5 days ago 32 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw experiences
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James Jack
James Jack 5 days ago

I asked him what happened. He said "him and his wife lived a full Theocratic Life for Jehovah. Doing everything the Organization and the Traveling Brothers told them to do, like work Part Time, Regular Pioneer, Serve where the Need is Great. Armageddon is just ready to break out at any time. We heard that same line of Reasoning for many, many years. And those who could not do what we did were considered weaker than us!"
"They worked Full time, had Families, token Field Service, missed a lot of Meetings. They were able to retire with benefits, plenty of money, a home paid off and spend time with their Grand Children. They live a comfortable life now and their service to Jehovah is still the same."
"At 62, I tried to collect Social Security, but only qualified to receive $480 a month, not even enough to pay rent! We quick Pioneering, took on Full Time employment in our 60's, to try to increase our SSI benefits. My body gave out when I hit 67. We stopped going to the Kingdom Hall because we have been lied too all those years. That was 8 years ago. I am now 75, can't work, live in Government housing, get food stamps, and my wife is still about able to hold down a Part Time job answering phones so that we have a little change for necessities."
I said:"That is why 5 years ago, I quit Pioneering at 50,(The Overlapping Generations change woke me up), to focus on planning for retirement with whatever measure of time and health I have left."
This couple in South Florida, who helped "raise my wife in the Truth", active Elder for 30 years, his wife and him both Pioneered and moved several times" to serve where the need is great" for another 20 years, with over 50 Years of "Faithful Service to the Organization", gave up going and are now inactive for the last 7 years!
 +42 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 5 days ago

We stopped going to the Kingdom Hall because we have been lied too all those years
Another wasted life.
Let's review: It's a cult!
Doc

 +11 / -0
prologos
prologos 5 days ago
Your story, or stories, are so typical of the truly devoted , at least you are already in retirement heaven, heaven's waiting room, Florida, not in Michigan Maine or Minnesota, Manitoba.
 +2 / -0
WTWizard
WTWizard 5 days ago

Seems they never let people do what is sustainable. They can do pious-sneer time, but at what expense? Unless joke-hova is going to pay them a living pension, there is no reason to work part time and serve joke-hova full time.
And there is no way to simply invest some of it, wait for that investment to pay off big, and then retire. Play a lottery ticket, you are gambling. Play the sweepstakes, and if you do manage to win big, they will expect you to throw away the prize into the Worldwide Damnation Fund. Play the stock market, and you are going to have to throw away the profits (if you are allowed to do it at all--the stock market is nothing to play with unless you can devote your full time to it). Buy silver in hopes that it will go from 15 or so toilet papers per ounce to 7,000 or more, you get hounded about it being "too worldly". Anyone that is smart would cut way back on field circus for the time, work as much as possible, invest as much as reasonably possible into silver (physical silver you hold) in realization of the huge shortage ahead, and wait until your currency becomes toilet paper and the shortage blows up. Then, retire and spend more time in field circus if you so please.
But no, they just have to have all your money now. There is a big problem with them accepting that someone might have a few dozen rolls of silver quarters, dimes, and halves, a few tubs of rounds, a couple dozen silver bars, a couple tubs of Eagles, a few tubs of Canadian Maple Leafs, a couple dozen Australian Kookaburras, and maybe even a few New Zealand Kiwis. That would be a diverse way to play silver, plus make it a hobby. It would also keep the money out of the Worldwide Damnation Fund.

 +3 / -0
LongHairGal
LongHairGal 5 days ago

JAMES JACK:
This is such a tragic story and I'm sure we are going to hear more like this as time goes on!
While I feel badly about the predicament of the couple you describe, sadly, back in the day they would have viewed me as "weak" and "not spiritual" because I had a full-time job....They probably would have ignored me. I'm sure they were probably invited to many gatherings that I was excluded from! I'm sure they were happy and floating on air!
I'm sure they got a lot of "association" and "love"....I wonder, however, if any of their so-called spiritual friends have offered them any assistance?
Peer pressure in the Witness religion was very powerful but I'm so grateful I resisted it. What the hell would all of this "love" mean NOW if a person is broke in their old age?? I agree with what WIZARD said above jokingly about Jehovah providing a living wage/pension... I guess he expected a single woman like me to work, and so I did. Maybe He gave me the strength!
 +9 / -0
Marcial
Marcial 5 days ago
Cela devrait nous faire souvenir de Ray Franz et de son épouse qui ont vécu ce drame de l'après sortie de cette organisation et se sont retrouvés avec peu d'argent pour survivre . Je loue de telles personnes qui malgré leur age font cette analyse et agissent en conséquence . Ne plus mentir malgré eux dans la contrainte que fait subir sur ses adeptes la watchtower et ceux qui la soutiennent aveuglément. Marcial
 +6 / -0
flipper
flipper 5 days ago
JAMES- Thanks for posting this story. What a sad situation. But please tell your friends that we are here for them and we are thinking about them. They are REALLY to be commended for exiting the JW cult so late in life. They must be really strong mentally. So many older folks can't face that they wasted their lives for years- so they stay in. It's still an extremely tough road to hoe at that age though. Good for them that they finally have their freedom. But the financial losses and price they had to pay was horrific. Take care, Peace out, Mr. Flipper
 +5 / -0
ToesUp
ToesUp 5 days ago
We are seeing the exact scenario play out in our family. Family members in the mid to late 60's having a hard time making a living, with no end in site and no money saved. Many have pioneered for years, gone where the need is great and served at Bethel. It is sad!
 +8 / -0
Gayle
Gayle 5 days ago

This should make us remember Ray Franz and his wife who lived this tragedy of the after release of this organization and found themselves with little money to survive. I commend such persons who, despite their age, do this analysis and act accordingly. No longer lie themselves in the constraint that subjected its followers on the watchtower and those who blindly support. Marcial
Marcial:I hope okay that I did a computer translator of your comments. I so respect Ray and Cynthia Franz courageous flight from the organization. They helped me to see so much of the WT reality of JW future. Thank you, Marcial!

 +8 / -0
fleshyheadedmutant
fleshyheadedmutant 5 days ago

Poor people.
They were the poster witness followers for so many years. Now that they can no longer serve the WTS they have found out the WTS has no use for them. They have been discarded.
So sad. At least they have each other.

 +3 / -0

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After 50 years Zealous Service, My Elder Friends goes Inactive
by James Jack 5 days ago 32 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw experiences
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LettMorrisSplaneit
LettMorrisSplaneit 5 days ago
This is so sad, I feel bad for them. The WT is a snare and a racket.
 +5 / -0
Heaven
Heaven 5 days ago

James, thank you for sharing this story. More of these need to be told to show how this religion is really not that good for it's members...not at all good.
My Father went inactive in 2011. He has dementia. He told me "I don't know what they are talking about anymore." Luckily he wasn't a JW in his youth and worked at a good company with a pension and health benefits. Now he is in a wheelchair in a nursing home. He will die from this awful brain disease.
And Armageddon will not have arrived.

 +5 / -0
James Jack
James Jack 5 days ago

LongHairGal
He told me recently a Brother whom he was Best Friends with before they went inactive, was working their Apartment building and came to their door. When he opened the door, the Brother just looked at him for a few seconds and said "Oh, I didn't know you lived here, I will see you at the meeting and walked away, no greetings, just turned his back and walked away."
That Brother and him were friends for some 40 years.
 +8 / -0
sparky1
sparky1 5 days ago

In the Spring of 1976 I took an older middle aged gentleman, his younger wife and his young daughter on tour at Watchtower Farms. He gave me some sage advice after the tour. He said: 'I was a Bethelite in the late '30's and early '40's and all we were told, every day, was that Armageddon was imminent. Sometimes all we had to eat was bread and sugar sandwiches. (I remember George Couch talking about this, so this man wasn't lying). Don't listen to everything these men have to say at headquarters. If you do, you will never have anything and you will wind up poor.' That Summer I left the Farm and started my 'new life'. I discussed what I wanted to do with a friend of mine from my Farm days that had recently become a Circuit Overseer. He told me 'DO NOT go into business. You are wasting your time. Armageddon is so close that it just would not be worth it' I will be 61 in a few months time. I semi-retired at 47 and now work 32 hours a week. I make a decent living still, I have full coverage health insurance paid for and a retirement plan plus paid vacation time. I'm glad I didn't pay attention to the 'Brains in Brooklyn'! However, I feel very, very sad for the thousands of 'faithful ones' that gave their life to this organization and now have nothing. What was done to them is CRIMINAL and yet there is no recourse against the BAD ADVICE that they got from 'Jehovah's loving organization'.
 +17 / -0
Giordano
Giordano 5 days ago

So the Society is tossing out their most important 'company men' the Circuit Overseers at age 70. I wonder how many are quitting the circuit to get at least 10 years of employment in to qualify for Social Security?
The Special Pioneers have been fired with a month or two months warning. No more special just unpaid pioneering or trolley watching.
The DO's are gone demoted to CO status.
Massive layoffs at the Branch and Bethels.
Let go, laid off............ going from the Elite to the Obsolete.
Ya think this is going to back fire on the WTBTS?
 +12 / -0
James Jack
James Jack 5 days ago

Everyone that they have known for all these years has nothing to do with them. All their many, many years of Faithful Service means nothing to the Rank and File.
No friends to assist them, barely getting by, an old car that keeps breaking down. The Golden Years, have been horrible for them.
I wish I was able to help, but I can't at this time.
 +6 / -0
Jehalapeno
Jehalapeno 5 days ago
John Aquila? Is that you?
 +3 / -0
Skedaddle
Skedaddle 5 days ago

I'm struggling to understand how this organization has been allowed and is still allowed to exist legally. It literally steals peoples lives and causes horrendous damage. It's the weirdest charitable organization I ever came across. It preys on people with good intentions like a cancer. It literally does not give a rat's ass about anyone other than to make sure everyone is enslaved to serve the so-called purpose of a loving organization.
Where are the retirement homes huh? With all your property you'd think you could manage to build some retirement homes for the elderly who are living on rations and stay cold in their beds because they can't afford heating as they have NOTHING to live on after a life of unpaid service... it never mentions it. Like this problem doesn't exist. But don't complain just wait on Jehovah. Yeah, don't embarrass us or we'll make you feel guilty for telling us you have no food! If someone had a brain in that Watchtower they'd realize they need to start playing the long game if they want to survive. Instead they remain as a seedy little pyramid, death cult, property scheme. 8.2 million members in 140 years is a total joke! A JOKE! You don't even offer your own members a hot meal! What kind of joke are these people???? arrrgh!
My heart weeps in my burning rage.
 +10 / -0
JW GoneBad
JW GoneBad 5 days ago

My hunch is there will soon be many, many more sad stories of senior JWs whose hopes of paradise are about to be shattered. The latest (2014) Pew Research Study shows that 52% of JWs are 50 years old and older and of those, 23% are 65 years and older.
If we do the math: 52% of 8.5 million JWs = 4.2 million over 52 years of age. 23% of 8.5 million JWs = 1.96 million over 65 years of age. So there are literally millions of senior JWs who are facing a future in this system with no money in the bank.
It's a no brainer...suicide among senior JWs will go up...how else will they cope?
 +6 / -0
JACOB Meza
JACOB Meza 5 days ago
Poor people. We know the ORG won't foot the bill for anything.
 +4 / -0

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Topic Summary
i asked him what happened.
he said "him and his wife lived a full theocratic life for jehovah.
doing everything the organization and the traveling brothers told them to do, like work part time, regular pioneer, serve where the need is great.



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After 50 years Zealous Service, My Elder Friends goes Inactive
by James Jack 5 days ago 32 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw experiences
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Watchtower-Free
Watchtower-Free 5 days ago




 +6 / -0
fulltimestudent
fulltimestudent 5 days ago
Wasted lives.
 +4 / -1
pepperheart
pepperheart 5 days ago
This is why i take and trash as many teaching books and magazines from the carts that i can if i can save just one person from having to go through this then it will be worth it

 +8 / -0
sowhatnow
sowhatnow 4 days ago

it always upset me that the WT expects 'satans' system to support elderly ones because they kept people from at least trying to being self sufficient and have some sort of retirement plan, and purchasing a home to live in.
first some would suggest, to avoid shopping at thrift stores that might be owned and run by any religious organization, or to hold down a job that is working for the government, or with a gun, or for a religious organization [ for ex. painting a church]
then some say, dont collect welfare benefits if you dont have to, then they make it impossible not to collect them, because your working part time, so you can pioneer, lol
Ive known people who didnt work full time, [ and sometimes not at all,] pioneered and then complained how broke they were.
and many still live at home and burden thier parents as well.
then they expecting people to turn down employment that has roating shifts, or night shifts, where one might would miss a meeting or two. so, Ive known people to turn down work, and run out of unemployment so they dont miss one or two meetings a month.
then people like my mom say,
'well god will reward people for thier sacrifice.' oh yea? prove it.
so many elderly jw's, live in [quite decent] public housing provided by the very government they condemn.
the scriptures clearly say, to make every effort to support yourselves, and your family. [1 tim 5 :8 is just one]
I have never seen scriptures to support the idea that the gov body and bethelites should work for free and live in new york and not have a job with pay. elders in the cong work a job, some i knew own thier own buisnesses. [ and hopefully can have some sort of better outcome.]
I wonder, does the 7 Gov, body members have an IRA? lol. ah, wait, they dont need it. they live in free resort housing provided by unemployed slaves.
 +10 / -0
steve2
steve2 4 days ago

Sentimentality shows many colours in the 21st century. This is just one of them.
It took a lifetime of dull-minded servitude for this man and his wife to finally put 2 and 2 together. I will lose no sleep and no outrage over their sad predicament - just as the Witnesses lost neither sleep nor outrage over my hapless escape - luckily whilst in my late 20s.
In fact, he and his wife would have been the very type of servile Witnesses back when I left who would have self-righteously crossed to the other side of the road to avoid me contaminating their precious breathing space.
My tears for my sad predicament dried up years ago. I had to toughen up to survive. I do not have even one single sad and salty tear for their predicament.
 +7 / -2
RichardHaley
RichardHaley 4 days ago

I see this all the time... except they don't wake up. The local hall is full of them, depending on welfare, disability payments (for imaginary ailments) and any other hand out while spending all their time as aux piosneers etc. Their personal ministry is supported by "satan's system" lol.
@WTWizard
someone might have a few dozen rolls of silver quarters, dimes, and halves, a few tubs of rounds, a couple dozen silver bars...
not yet but working on it!
 +5 / -0
James Jack
James Jack 4 days ago
I failed to mention that the has Cancer and goes to Tampa for treatments
 +1 / -0
nonjwspouse
nonjwspouse 4 days ago

I disagree with steve2. What happened to them was not just a personal choice they made. When a cult practices mind control, then it IS the fault of the cult when a persons life is destroyed due to following the cult directions. Mind control is extremely powerful, even more so if born into the mind control.
Those who wake up do so in spite of the mind control techniques. As shown on this message board, the varied reasons anyone "wakes up" are so vast, it is not a matter of "Oh they just need to do such ad so to wake up".
I for one believe the majority of those in have an emotional tether they are controlled by. One that is reinforced their entire lives depending on circumstances, life events, or many, many other factors.
It is the break through the mind control that is as individual as the person's mind is. Otherwise there would be a formula for waking people up, then the WTBTS would be gone quickly.
I do feel bad for the old couple. That is part of what makes humans, human. To feel the empathy. When you lose empathy, you become, well, like those that are mind controlled. I don't mean to shed tears, but definitely to feel sorry for their predicament, and hope they can be ok. I also feel anger at the WTBTS at the heartless, evil, mind control directions that ruin peoples lives like this.

 +7 / -1
steve2
steve2 4 days ago

 When a cult practices mind control, then it IS the fault of the cult when a persons life is destroyed due to following the cult directions. Mind control is extremely powerful, even more so if born into the mind control.
I acknowledge my response was harsh. I could tone it down. But beyond that, my response is pretty much the same.
Sure, the shunning policy is imposed on JWs. That said, we all know of JWs who enact it way beyond what is stated and do so with relish. Super-dedicated witnesses are the worst offenders. We hear of their shunning exploits in this forum - and the observation is often made: They go beyond even what the organization requires.
None of this let's the organization off the hook.
Besides, it is the oldest excuse in the book to blame an external source for one's actions. The story of the first couple has Eve blaming the talking snake and those tried during the Nuremberg trials protested they were only following orders. And of course terrorists cite Allah to justify their bloodshed. Everyone who does something bad falls back on "just" doing what they've been ordered to do.
At a personal level, I saw my four grandparents grow old and die, all faithfully serving the organization. My father's parents were softies - loyal but not hardline, whilst my mother's parents were hardline and would turn against so-called "weak" ones as quick as look at them. I have a lot of time for those who have been troubled by the organization's harsh policies, but find it hard to muster much feeling for hardliners who "suddenly" see the light.
 +2 / -0
James Jack
James Jack 4 days ago

Watchtower-Free



Nice picture. I met Joel Adams at the Elders KM School in 2008. I said "Hey your the guy who did the voice of Satan in the drama", he just did a fake smile and moved on. By the way, that whole week every day, his wife walked around Patterson in a Night Robe talking to her self , looking delusional.
 

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Topic Summary
i asked him what happened.
he said "him and his wife lived a full theocratic life for jehovah.
doing everything the organization and the traveling brothers told them to do, like work part time, regular pioneer, serve where the need is great.



Related Topics
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Anybody remember those brothers that would harass, and hound the elders into making them, finally, appoint him as an elder himself?
by Dunedain a day ago
A.proclaimer
1914, leap years, and sticky math situation
by A.proclaimer 4 months ago
pale.emperor
Trying To Leave - Im Going Crazy
by pale.emperor 2 months ago
scotoma
Authoritarian vs Open To Experience
by scotoma 3 months ago
adjusted knowledge
Have you ever experience suprise by an Elder that actually showed compassion and reasoning in a judicial committee?
by adjusted knowledge 16 days ago



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After 50 years Zealous Service, My Elder Friends goes Inactive
by James Jack 5 days ago 32 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw experiences
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steve2
steve2 3 days ago

 By the way, that whole week every day, his wife walked around Patterson in a Night Robe talking to her self , looking delusional.
This could be a metaphor for JWs in general.
 +4 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 3 days ago

What I love, by the example of the Spanish congs where I attend, is that young people are really concentrated on their education and you can palpate that they do not give a hoot about the crap shown from the platform. No more victims of the WTBTS failed 'end times' prophecies.
It's AWESOME!!!
DY
 +4 / -0
Absolutesbeginners
Absolutesbeginners 2 days ago

After 50 years !!!
The best is NOT to wake up ....
Anyways ....one day of freedom worth more than 50 years of slavery ...
Even with grey hair....
One life .
One shot .
Good luck to them .
 +2 / -0

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Topic Summary
i asked him what happened.
he said "him and his wife lived a full theocratic life for jehovah.
doing everything the organization and the traveling brothers told them to do, like work part time, regular pioneer, serve where the need is great.



Related Topics
Dunedain
Anybody remember those brothers that would harass, and hound the elders into making them, finally, appoint him as an elder himself?
by Dunedain a day ago
A.proclaimer
1914, leap years, and sticky math situation
by A.proclaimer 4 months ago
pale.emperor
Trying To Leave - Im Going Crazy
by pale.emperor 2 months ago
scotoma
Authoritarian vs Open To Experience
by scotoma 3 months ago
adjusted knowledge
Have you ever experience suprise by an Elder that actually showed compassion and reasoning in a judicial committee?
by adjusted knowledge 16 days ago



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Attention Governing Body, What does nature tell you about a male having long hair?
by Greybeard 5 days ago 10 Replies latest 3 days ago   jw friends
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Greybeard
Greybeard 5 days ago

I was raised my entire life to believe it is a shame for a man to have long hair because of this Bible scripture 1 Corinthians 11:14, “Does not nature itself teach you that long hair is a dishonor to a man?” NWT However the International Standard Version reads, “Nature itself teaches you neither that it is disgraceful for a man to have long hair.” So what does nature really teach us? Jesus was called, “The Lion of Judah” and the King of the Jungle has long hair. Thank you nature for clearing this twisted scripture up for me. (Acts 2:17)
Matthew 7:7-8, "It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’ You let go of the commandment of God and cling to the tradition of men.” NWT
 +2 / -0
blondie
blondie 5 days ago

(Acts 21:21-26) 21 But they have heard it rumored about you that you have been teaching all the Jews among the nations an apostasy from Moses, telling them neither to circumcise their children nor to walk in the [solemn] customs. 22 What, then, is to be done about it? In any case they are going to hear you have arrived. 23 Therefore do this which we tell you: We have four men with a vow upon themselves. 24 Take these men along and cleanse yourself ceremonially with them and take care of their expenses, that they may have their heads shaved. And so everybody will know that there is nothing to the rumors they were told about you, but that you are walking orderly, you yourself also keeping the Law. 25 As for the believers from among the nations, we have sent out, rendering our decision that they should keep themselves from what is sacrificed to idols as well as from blood and what is strangled and from fornication.” 26 Then Paul took the men along the next day and cleansed himself ceremonially with them and went into the temple, to give notice of the days to be fulfilled for the ceremonial cleansing, until the offering should be presented for each one of them.
*** w98 7/15 p. 23 A Christian View of Funeral Customs ***
A South African man named Benjamin was 29 years old when he heard about the sudden death of his father. At that time, Benjamin was the only Witness in his family. During the burial service, everyone was expected to file past the grave and throw a handful of soil onto the coffin. After the burial, all immediate family members had their heads shaved. Since Benjamin did not share in these rituals, neighbors and family members predicted that he would be punished by the spirit of his dead father.

 +4 / -0
Greybeard
Greybeard 5 days ago
"The bobbed hair craze is sure to lead to baldness, sooner or later. The reason for this is that human hair is like a tube sealed at the free end. When the hair is cut, the oils which are the life of the hair become dissipated. The reason why men grow bald so quickly is that they have their hair cut so frequently and, in addition, wear tightly fitting hats, which cut off the circulation of the scalp." Golden Age 1924 Nov 19 p.100
 +6 / -0
Barrold Bonds
Barrold Bonds 5 days ago
I love old Golden Age/Consolation/Awake articles.
 +5 / -0
Greybeard
Greybeard 5 days ago

All of the old articles are full of empty words and predictions. That is why the JW online library only goes back a few years. "But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken." Thank you internet for saving those words. Matthew 12:36 NIV "I am frustrating the signs of the empty talkers, And I am the One who makes diviners act like fools; The One confounding the wise men And turning their knowledge into foolishness; The One making the word of his servant come true And completely fulfilling the predictions of his messengers." NWT / Completely fulfilling the predictions of his messengers? What does completely mean? Governing Body your predictions have failed to come true, many empty words, isn't it about time to admit it? Take a vote.
 +2 / -0
fulltimestudent
fulltimestudent 5 days ago

In many ancient cultures men had long hair. Hair length is relative anyway.
Just more evidence that so-called 'sacred texts' are bullshit.
 +2 / -0
disposable hero of hypocrisy
disposable hero of hypocrisy 5 days ago
Samson. Dedicated to Yahweh. Long hair. Need I say more?
 +4 / -0
fulltimestudent
fulltimestudent 5 days ago

disposable hero of hypocrisy : Samson. Dedicated to Yahweh. Long hair. Need I say more?
Right! Good point.
1. He was a nazirite, and was only allowed a once-a-year haircut.
So YHWH/JESUS can make laws and then break their own laws.
Illogical buggers, arn't they?
2. The woman he spent the night with was a prostitute.
So I wonder if I could use that for an excuse with a judicial committee?
 +2 / -0
compound complex
compound complex 5 days ago

Although not on stage, I was still commenting at meetings while bearded and hair some 12 inches long . . .
Varying standards in JW land.
CC
 +3 / -0
Witness My Fury
Witness My Fury 4 days ago

My hair at this very moment is the longest it has ever been in my entire life. It's going longer....
 +1 / -0

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Attention Governing Body, What does nature tell you about a male having long hair?
by Greybeard 5 days ago 10 Replies latest 3 days ago   jw friends
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Vidiot
Vidiot 3 days ago

I suspect the WTS has traditionally been against long hair on a man for the same reason it's been against beards...
x
...'cause it looks good on some of us, and lots of women like it. :smirk:
 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
i was raised my entire life to believe it is a shame for a man to have long hair because of this bible scripture 1 corinthians 11:14, “does not nature itself teach you that long hair is a dishonor to a man?” nwt however the international standard version reads, “nature itself teaches you neither that it is disgraceful for a man to have long hair.” so what does nature really teach us?
jesus was called, “the lion of judah” and the king of the jungle has long hair.
thank you nature for clearing this twisted scripture up for me.



Related Topics
kepler
Mr. Geoffrey William Jackson = Humpty Dumpty
by kepler 8 months ago
Splash
Which current GB members are part of the "overlapping generation"?
by Splash 6 months ago
Terry
TRUTH or OPINION--which is it when the Governing Body speaks?
by Terry 19 days ago
Diogenesister
Bill Bowens letter / circumstantial evidence hypocracy
by Diogenesister 4 months ago
slimboyfat
Why does the Watchtower leadership slap its own defenders in the face?
by slimboyfat 5 months ago



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Fraud
by fulltimestudent 5 days ago 20 Replies latest 18 hours ago   jw friends
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fulltimestudent
fulltimestudent 5 days ago

If someone commits financial fraud, they commit a crime, and can be punished (jailed).
But if someone commits a religious fraud, western society does not see that as a crime.
On another thread, a poster pointed out that the JWs, "literally steals peoples lives and causes horrendous damage."
Of course, the JWs are not the only religion to practise religious fraud. All sorts of large and small religions make unverifiable promises and ask for financial support on the basis of their promises, which is precisely what financial defrauder does. The financial defrauder promises "give me your money and you will get x% back." The spiritual defrauder promises, support me financially and you will get enormous spiritual benefits (not to mention everlasting life).
Western societies are wrong to allow spiritual fraud under the guise of freedom of religion.
Everyone here would have been richer if religions were banned.
 +8 / -0
prologos
prologos 5 days ago
Everyone here would have been richer if religions were banned. except the religious fraudsters.
 +1 / -0
Heaven
Heaven 5 days ago
Religion is legalized fraud.

 +5 / -0
fulltimestudent
fulltimestudent 5 days ago

prologos : Everyone here would have been richer if religions were banned. except the religious fraudsters.
Ummm? Aha! Yeah, there are only ex-religious fraudsters here. (grin)
 +1 / -0
atomant
atomant 5 days ago
Jw's use emotional fraud more happiness in giving than receiving crap.Like when the little girl gives up her pocket money as a donation.JW's are right up there with the banksters.

 +4 / -0
pbrow
pbrow 5 days ago

At the end of the day, jdubs do not steal peoples lives. Individuals choose to follow a set of beliefs. Individuals choose to shun family members. Individuals choose to withhold blood related medical treatment. Very painful i know but this is where personal accountability comes in and why it is so important to either get out completely and/or actively work at helping others to get out.
Religeous freedome is extremely important. Even more important though is the ability to question and rebel against religion.
pbrow
 +1 / -0
fulltimestudent
fulltimestudent 5 days ago

pbrow : At the end of the day, jdubs do not steal peoples lives. Individuals choose to follow a set of beliefs. Individuals choose to shun family members. Individuals choose to withhold blood related medical treatment. Very painful i know but this is where personal accountability comes in...



Would you really argue that someone perpetrating a financial fraud is NOT guilty, because his victim voluntarily invested his money in the fraud? Does personal accountability become a factor in financial fraud?



pbrow: ... Religeous freedome is extremely important.
Why so?
And - If religions (organised religion) were banned, individual thought would not be banned. Only the organised propagating of religious dogma would vanish.
 +2 / -0
SAHS
SAHS 5 days ago

“fulltimestudent”: “Everyone here would have been richer if religions were banned.”
Well, I’m not so sure that outright banning of religions would be the best option because that might put a monkey wrench in our Western freedoms and separation of church and state, which ensures free belief for everyone; HOWEVER, the one thing which we should hold every religion to, which all commercial businesses have been held to all along, is: full disclosure up front.
If religions want to go around telling people their bizarre and fanciful ideas and stories, that’s one thing; BUT, they should be honest and up front about what is really involved down the line (i.e., shunning, blood transfusion ban, no holidays, etc., etc.).
Just like on the TV commercials advertising psychic hotlines when they display in the somewhat fine print something like: “For entertainment purposes only,” or “Individual results may vary.” Full disclosure.
So, if various religions want to exist and peddle their wares, as they will, then I suppose that could be tolerable under a truly free and democratic society – as long as they’re just honest and upfront about it from the beginning! And then, if some folks still want to go ahead and indulge themselves in the fantasies being preached and peddled, well, then I guess all the power to them. At the very least, they’ll know what they’re really getting themselves into – because they would have been properly forewarned, as they really should be.
 +1 / -0
pbrow
pbrow 4 days ago

In my mothers mind it is worth the choice to shun me because the end goal is that she will live in paradise. I can disagree, I can argue with her but she is choosing to believe despite all the evidence. How could you possibly think it ok to ban her beliefs? So unless her beliefs are the same as yours then you would say they should be banned? What part of totalitorian or "thought crime" do you not understand? What thoughful person or group would you propose being in charge of banning ideas? I personally can think of NO ONE that I would want in charge of my view on how the world works.
pbrow
 
nonjwspouse
nonjwspouse 4 days ago

What should be banned is the emotional blackmail practiced, and the ability to hide the financials.No " get out of jail free card" to hide behind claiming it is religious freedom. Murder, child abuse, emotional abuse, abuse towards any person., et al should be banned, and if a organization will not practice without that abuse, then that organization's ability to practice the illegal behaviors should be banned.

There should be full disclosure of all moneys of any non profit organization, religious or not.

 +2 / -0

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Fraud
by fulltimestudent 5 days ago 20 Replies latest 18 hours ago   jw friends
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Skedaddle
Skedaddle 4 days ago

At the end of the day, jdubs do not steal peoples lives. Individuals choose to follow a set of beliefs.
I was born-in and so are many others. My young brain was brainwashed before I knew of any other notion. Where was my choice?
 Individuals choose to shun family members. Individuals choose to withhold blood related medical treatment. Very painful i know but this is where personal accountability comes in and why it is so important to either get out completely and/or actively work at helping others to get out.
JW's shun people and refuse blood after they are brainwashed. I never heard of a new JW or a non-JW say oh, shunning is a very reasonable thing to do and the no-blood policy is no biggy, tell me where to sign. BRAINWASHING and emotional manipulation happens first.
Religeous freedome is extremely important. Even more important though is the ability to question and rebel against religion.
Religious freedom is a seperate issue to what defines a credible religion. A religion, who's members are not afforded said freedom to leave, who's brainwashing techniques and hushing about certain beliefs that get drip-fed in time are used in order to attract and retain followers, is not a credible religion, it's a fraud and as such should be challenged by the government to change before being banned. You think that's harsh? My government is paying the bill for the clean-up operation for each member that is damaged by said religion that's tricked them, with tax-payer money. A religion that is brainwashing members into not working, not getting a good education, asking for excessive and expensive medical proceedures, not partaking in society, not following certain laws, not letting it's members talk to non-believers, ostracisizing ex members etc. causes a huge burden on tax-payers and a damage to society cohesion - Tax-payers which the government represents. I have no problem with people believing whatever they want to but when damage is caused by misrepresentation and emotional blackmail and brainwashing, that is a threat and needs dealing with for the very country that is supposedly free, would be sustaining an environment for a suppressive regime with no limitations if not. While you may pussy-foot around your rights, leaders are dealing with religion being used as a weapon against the peacefulness of their country. It's not always about the individual. Sometimes it's about fighting for survival of the group. So leaders should have the right to question and rebel against a damaging religion that's a burden on society. I hope I've made sense.
 +3 / -0
pbrow
pbrow 4 days ago

I agree that financials should not be secret if they are getting tax exempt status. In fact, no religion should be tax exempt. I think it a plausible arguement that tax exemption for religions goes against the constitution (Im in the US)
Skedaddle... I too am a born in. My excuse of being brainwashed ended (legally) that is, when I turned 18. No doubt we were indoctrinated. I was so weak minded that it took me 12 more years to get out! That is on me. Who else was going to "do my thinking for me?" There is no other explanation for it... I was indocrinated yes, but only when I chose to think for myself was I able to get out. No one was going to change my mind until I did. It took raising two children in the church to wake me the fuck up! As much as I agree with you that dubs are indoctrinated, at the end of the day my mother, my brother, my aunts, uncles and grandparents are choosing to remain in, just as I chose to gtfo!
The members absolutely have the freedom to leave!! What those same people do not want though is to pay the cost for leaving. That is on them. That is life brother. I am not saying freedom of thought is easy or without pain but it is necessary pain. Some people actually do want someone else to do all their thinking for them. I hate the outcome as well so I fight it in the capacity I have.
Kid needs blood... absolutely the state should step in. Adult needs blood but refuses... that is on them. Hammer them on pedophilia, take away tax exempt status, ridicule them on doctrine (not the government but us) and try to enlighten as many as we can.
The last thing I am doing is pussy-footing around my rights! Again, who do you trust to be the thought police? We are on our own to think, for better or worse. It absolutely cannot be the government who censors our thoughts and beliefs. When the government becomes the censors in this context we are in deep trouble.
pbrow
 +3 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 4 days ago

You could correctly say that all religions are a devised fraud with their own inherent intent, that's going back all throughout human history.
Its just that some have a publishing house operating at their core and some of its professed doctrines are devised to assist the proliferation of the literature it produces.

 +2 / -0
Heaven
Heaven 4 days ago
If religion does not allow people to be free, why should religion be allowed any freedoms?

 +2 / -0
Muddy Waters
Muddy Waters 4 days ago

Pbrow, you keep saying people are on their own to be free or to be free thinkers (if I am understanding your post correctly),
because you said, among other things: "At the end of the day, jdubs do not steal peoples lives. Individuals choose to follow a set of beliefs. Individuals choose to shun family members. Individuals choose to withhold blood related medical treatment."
I believe that JWism DOES steal people's lives. It seems like you may be minimizing the effects of "mental indoctrination" (read: brain-washing) where to even question the WT leaders is a sin. And on top of that, you are constantly told NOT to rely on your own wisdom, that your heart is tricky, that doubts come from Satan, that "independent" or critical thinking is a sin....
And add this as well: the consequences of leaving the group can mean complete ostracization and losing your whole family and all your friends, perhaps your inheritance too.... This is not benign stuff.
Yes, it is more a psychological prison verses a literal, physical prison, but the effects are the same. It takes a great deal to wear down the mental barriers and levels of corresponding fears/guilts/shames, etc., to reach a point of allowing oneself to even question the authority.
I do not think many people are "born Free".... I think freedom and its concept is something one learns, and begins to appreciate and respect, both for oneself and others, the more time goes on. And that with freedom, comes responsibility and accountability. It is not always a gift unto itself. The more it is appreciated, the more it is valued. And in JW-land, freedom is not a concept one learns about in a personal way. Even the concept of freedom is defined by their terms and is always presented with their religious bias and agenda of the WT.
Apologies in advance if I misunderstood your post.
- Muddy



 +1 / -0
Simon
Simon 4 days ago

I was born-in and so are many others. My young brain was brainwashed before I knew of any other notion. Where was my choice?
Same here. Aren't parents are responsible for the choices they make for their children?
 +2 / -0
fulltimestudent
fulltimestudent 3 days ago

pbrow,
There is some distance between personal belief and organised religion. You illustrated your argument with your mother's decision to shun you because of her (somewhat selfish) hope of a reward in the paradise (an unverifiable and likely false hope). Your mother's allegiance is to an organisation that keeps encouraging her to continue to shun you. If there was no such organisation, your mother would have to work out a balance between her personal belief and her natural love for you, and her natural (innate) love would likely win out over an imagined reward of life in a paradise.
Why do you think the JW organisation (as did early Christianity and similar Jewish cults of the era, like the Essenes) try to isolate members from general society? Why do you imagine the WTS discourages people from seeking tertiary studies?
There is some evidence that the WTS uses this dogma (shunning) as a means to emotionally blackmail members who may be thinking of leaving. (Many years ago an exjw who had access to the leadership clique in Australia, was told when he said he discussed leaving (by someone close to the branch committee), "Don't forget we still have your children." (These children were in their early 20s).
There is no need to prosecute anyone for personal belief, unless that personal belief impinges on someone else's rights.
 +1 / -0
pbrow
pbrow 2 days ago


Hey muddy (think i messed up with the quotes feature...
"I believe that JWism DOES steal people's lives. It seems like you may be minimizing the effects of "mental indoctrination" (read: brain-washing) where to even question the WT leaders is a sin. And on top of that, you are constantly told NOT to rely on your own wisdom, that your heart is tricky, that doubts come from Satan, that "independent" or critical thinking is a sin....

I am not minimizing the point we both agree with... JWism does indeed steal peoples lives. But it does so by voluntary compliance by the individual dubs. You could not have said it better in the quote above. Free people.... Mothers, fathers, relatives and friends willingly subject themselves to this idiot indoctrination, do not question it and fall in line. Born ins are fucked from the beginning but here in 'Merica we have the right to believe some fucked up things and to teach our kids fucked up things. I also say this knowing that born ins (first hand experience) are at an extreme disadvantage, although the drop out rate of born ins is very high! The cost of having thought police is too high of a price to pay.
And add this as well: the consequences of leaving the group can mean complete ostracization and losing your whole family and all your friends, perhaps your inheritance too.... This is not benign stuff.
Not benign at all!!! I, like you and many others feel the pain of this every day! It is fucking riduculous! But again, as hard as it is to hear over and over again, MY/YOUR parents, MY/YOUR family and MY/YOUR friends are choosing to believe something that directly goes against the principles that they think they stand for. They are choosing to remain in ignorance. Are they being assisted, misdirected? Of course they are! But again, the price of personal freedom is so precious that I cannot stand by while it is proposed to be given to a governmental authority that would regulate who can think what.
It takes a great deal to wear down the mental barriers and levels of corresponding fears/guilts/shames, etc., to reach a point of allowing oneself to even question the authority.
Amen to that! That is why I think it ok when people disrupt meetings (peacefully), why I try to instill my skepticism in my children, why I do not allow family members to shun me. Breaking down my own mental barriers (although indoctrinated by my mother and congregation but still my own nonetheless) took me 30 years!! But I did it.
I do not think many people are "born Free".... I think freedom and its concept is something one learns, and begins to appreciate and respect, both for oneself and others, the more time goes on. And that with freedom, comes responsibility and accountability. It is not always a gift unto itself. The more it is appreciated, the more it is valued. And in JW-land, freedom is not a concept one learns about in a personal way. Even the concept of freedom is defined by their terms and is always presented with their religious bias and agenda of the WT.
Very direct. I could not agree more. Be awake, move forward and help as many people as you can. This life has many challenges and opportunities. Very few are easy. Life is difficult. This is why personal accountability is so important. No apologies needed Muddy... we are both fighting against this religion, an example of the horrible remnants of our ignorant past.
pbrow
 +1 / -0
fulltimestudent
fulltimestudent 2 days ago

pbrow: I am not minimizing the point we both agree with... JWism does indeed steal peoples lives. But it does so by voluntary compliance by the individual dubs.
and
Skedaddle... I too am a born in. My excuse of being brainwashed ended (legally) that is, when I turned 18. No doubt we were indoctrinated. I was so weak minded that it took me 12 more years to get out! That is on me. Who else was going to "do my thinking for me?"
I admire your determination to be personally responsible for your own actions, pbrow. But your thinking is very black and white.
Are all humans born with excellent reasoning abilities? My university study topic (this semester) has told me that humans are not good (naturally) at reasoning things out. So there's another opinion that is worth considering.
In the congregations of JWs, that you my have associated with, were all the people in those congregations equal in thinking ability? I doubt that they were. My personal assessment is that in most of the congregations with which I was associated, more that 60% did not fully understand the reasons for their basic beliefs. More, why are most witnesses drawn from the lower socio-economic groups? These are the precise groups that may have lower reasoning abilities? Its curious that this was also case in early Christianity, at least in the opinion of Paul. Recall the verses:
"...there were not many wise according to the flesh, ... 27but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise." (1 Corinthians 1:26,27)
Paul attempts to turn that into a virtue, but within about 100 years, the church had turned to platonic thinking (the very thing Paul was likely speaking of) to solve some of their doctrinal hassles.
Why does the GB insist that going to university, where you are more likely to be taught to question things, is likely to turn you away from faith? Come to that, why do fewer people with tertiary education become witnesses?
If we are all responsible entirely for our own actions, why is financial fraud a crime, and spiritual fraud is not?
I may be one of the few people who I could judge to be truly personally responsible for dropping my previous belief that there was no god, and becoming a witness. But, if we could sit and chat personally, you'd likely finish up agreeing that in my life at the time (and only 16/17 years of age), only basic education (very difficult for working class people to attend university when I was young) that emotional played an important role in my decision. Nonetheless, if there had been no churches peddling their fraudulent beliefs, especially a church that believed that all Christians were obligated to become footstep followers of Jesus, I may not have made the stupid mistake that I made.
You can extend my last thought. Try this. If there had been no Jewish religion, then Jesus may not have become deluded and died at a relatively young age. Luke 21:32 indicates his personal belief that he lived in the generation that would see the Divine Kingdom established. We've all been there, haven't we?
 +1 / -0
pbrow
pbrow a day ago

Fulltime,
Are all humans born with excellent reasoning abilities? My university study topic (this semester) has told me that humans are not good (naturally) at reasoning things out. So there's another opinion that is worth considering.
No definitely not but I would argue that they cannot be forced into getting excellent reasoning abilities. They have to be taught them and regretfully the fact is, if they are raised dubs they will not be taught reasoning abilities. Thats the stone cold reality that dubs, mormons and scientologist born ins are faced with.
In the congregations of JWs, that you my have associated with, were all the people in those congregations equal in thinking ability? I doubt that they were. My personal assessment is that in most of the congregations with which I was associated, more that 60% did not fully understand the reasons for their basic beliefs. More, why are most witnesses drawn from the lower socio-economic groups? These are the precise groups that may have lower reasoning abilities?
No they certainly are not. Here is where we seem to have the disagreement though. In a free society they have the right to be content in their ignorance. They do not want to fully understand, they are fully satisfied not having a basic understanding of their beliefs. I cant make them understand. You cant make them understand. That is where my mother, my brother and lifelong friends WANT to be. Personal freedom to them is not more important than belonging to their church. I am ok with that. I will never stop fighting it but when I go to sleep at night I can accept that they have made their bed and are sleeping in it also.
There have always been churches, most likely always will be, people want to give away their personal freedom. They want to follow. Yeah, your story is tough. I have thought long and hard about if I had not been raised a jdub maybe I would have joined and then forced my kids into the cult like my mother did to me. Thank Allah that didnt happen. I am human... I learned from my own experience and mistakes and am moving forward. At the end of the day, what other option do we have?
Excellent conversation
pbrow
 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
if someone commits financial fraud, they commit a crime, and can be punished (jailed).. but if someone commits a religious fraud, western society does not see that as a crime.. on another thread, a poster pointed out that the jws, "literally steals peoples lives and causes horrendous damage.
of course, the jws are not the only religion to practise religious fraud.
all sorts of large and small religions make unverifiable promises and ask for financial support on the basis of their promises, which is precisely what financial defrauder does.



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by LevelThePlayingField 3 days ago



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Fraud
by fulltimestudent 5 days ago 20 Replies latest 18 hours ago   jw friends
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SAHS
SAHS 18 hours ago

Full disclosure of what would be expected of those being presented with a religion/group/cult, especially a high-control, totalitarian outfit such as the Watchtower organization, is so important because, otherwise, people would, in effect, be subjected to a kind of “spiritual statutory rape.”
Our western governmental legal/judicial systems judge a person’s sexual exploits as being “statutory rape” if the sexual activity is perpetrated by an older person upon a minor, and even more so if it involves exploitation upon a prepubescent child. The reasoning? Minor children, especially young children, are deemed to be naturally and fundamentally incapable of rendering such consent as would be acceptable and required of a “mature” person, or legally considered an adult.
Now, in the context of proselytizing (or peddling) by a religious group, even upon “mature” adults, it is really tantamount to “spiritual statutory rape” if an honest full disclosure is withheld from the prospective new convert until after they have already been slyly and progressively indoctrinated and “sucked in” to the mental and emotional vortex of deceitful enslavement (i.e., emotional blackmail with the threat of eventually losing all their friends and family).
Governments require a person to be old enough to be considered capable of rendering valid consent for sexual activity (i.e., “consenting adult”). So, likewise, it just seems fair that there also be some sort of basic legal requirement for these aggressive religious prostelizers to at least provide some basic and truthful disclosure – especially concerning something which many people would end up believing to be an eternal life-and-death proposition!
 

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Topic Summary
if someone commits financial fraud, they commit a crime, and can be punished (jailed).. but if someone commits a religious fraud, western society does not see that as a crime.. on another thread, a poster pointed out that the jws, "literally steals peoples lives and causes horrendous damage.
of course, the jws are not the only religion to practise religious fraud.
all sorts of large and small religions make unverifiable promises and ask for financial support on the basis of their promises, which is precisely what financial defrauder does.



Related Topics
akromo
Watch Tower's ridiculous Defence in Otuo v Morley and Watch Tower
by akromo 3 days ago
akromo
Judgement in W
by akromo 2 days ago
akromo
Judgement in Watch Tower Appeal in Otuo v Morley and Watch Tower by Sir David Eady
by akromo 2 days ago
akromo
The Particulars of Claim in Otuo v Morley and Watch Tower
by akromo 3 days ago
LevelThePlayingField
slimboyfat & blondie made news on newshub.com
by LevelThePlayingField 3 days ago



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fulltimestudent
20
Fraud
by fulltimestudent in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 5 days ago
if someone commits financial fraud, they commit a crime, and can be punished (jailed).. but if someone commits a religious fraud, western society does not see that as a crime.. on another thread, a poster pointed out that the jws, "literally steals peoples lives and causes horrendous damage.

of course, the jws are not the only religion to practise religious fraud.

all sorts of large and small religions make unverifiable promises and ask for financial support on the basis of their promises, which is precisely what financial defrauder does.

fulltimestudent
pbrow
SAHS
18 hours ago
Greybeard
10
Attention Governing Body, What does nature tell you about a male having long hair?
by Greybeard in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 5 days ago
i was raised my entire life to believe it is a shame for a man to have long hair because of this bible scripture 1 corinthians 11:14, “does not nature itself teach you that long hair is a dishonor to a man?” nwt however the international standard version reads, “nature itself teaches you neither that it is disgraceful for a man to have long hair.” so what does nature really teach us?

jesus was called, “the lion of judah” and the king of the jungle has long hair.

thank you nature for clearing this twisted scripture up for me.

compound complex
Witness My Fury
Vidiot
3 days ago
James Jack
32
After 50 years Zealous Service, My Elder Friends goes Inactive
by James Jack in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 5 days ago
i asked him what happened.

he said "him and his wife lived a full theocratic life for jehovah.

doing everything the organization and the traveling brothers told them to do, like work part time, regular pioneer, serve where the need is great.

steve2
Doubtfully Yours
Absolutesbeginners
2 days ago
Damascus
30
not all JW's are asleep
by Damascus in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 5 days ago
i am an 'active' jw but i do not agree with most of the doctrines inc blood, baptism, the memorial etc etc.i took the emblems at the memorial because i think we all should recognise and accept jesus' command to remember him.

not for one minute do i think this is only for the so called anointed.

i know it is full of man made error and that my fellow brothers and sisters are in a state of mindless, spiritual unawareness.

millie210
tor1500
contramundum
3 days ago
Wild_Thing
4
The Invitations to the Kingdom Hall is Starting Up Again
by Wild_Thing in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 5 days ago
after 15 years, i thought my mom finally accepted that i am never coming back to the kingdom hall for any reason.

well ... i guess not.. this weekend, my nieces are staying with her because my jw sister (who is not speaking to me) is out of town.

she invited me to go to lunch on sunday.

DesirousOfChange
GrreatTeacher
Wild_Thing
5 days ago
TheLiberator
25
NOW it's Important
by TheLiberator in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 6 days ago
i have spent 45 years of my life sacrificing my soul to the watchtower.

twenty-five of those years as a ms/elder.

i gave every moment to them.

Ucantnome
Finkelstein
Introvert 2
5 days ago
sillygirlforgotpassword
4
Touching scene from angel-A
by sillygirlforgotpassword in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 6 days ago
i was going through a pretty rough patch the last couple of weeks after a breakup, a "vacation" spent at my parents, some health scares and other random thoughts the realization i'm not 25 and as toned and consistently fresh faced anymore (feel free to call me shallow because that i am ;).

i fully agree that we aren't to worry about aging, but aging gracefully!

2 weeks at home spent being harassed by my parents for not being up to the spiritual mark didn't help either.

xjwsrock
scoobydont
Witness My Fury
5 days ago
wannaexit
5
Russia threatens to shut down branch
by wannaexit in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 6 days ago https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/russia/threaten-shutdown-jw-national-headquarters/

Mephis
zeb
Barrold Bonds
5 days ago
BlackWolf
21
Any other teenagers on here?
by BlackWolf in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 6 days ago
i'm 16 and it seems like most the people on this forum are adults.

i would think since most teenagers have tablets/smartphones there would be more on here but maybe not?

it would be nice to meet some other young people.

Nathan Natas
wifibandit
Nathan Natas
a day ago
nevaagain
2
I need the sample presentations for the Awake magazine April 2016
by nevaagain in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 6 days ago
hello friends,.

i need the sample presentations for the awake magazine april 2016. similar to the ones here:http://www.jw-archive.org/post/136716562488/february-2016-sample-presentation-videos.

those are for february, i need them for april.

Atlantis
nevaagain
3 days ago
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stephanie61092
6
Feeling anxious, venting...
by stephanie61092 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 3 days ago
good morning all,.

this is just a rambling post.

at the meeting yesterday during the wt study, i started flipping through the magazine to try to pass the time.

stephanie61092
DesirousOfChange
TheListener
2 days ago
cofty
86
Excellent Conversation At Literature Trolley
by cofty in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 4 days ago
yesterday my wife and i enjoyed one of our regular days out at edinburgh - movie, lunch, walk, meal etc.. in the late afternoon while mrs cofty went shopping i had an hour at the excellent museum of scotland and arranged to meet up outside the national gallery on princes street.

on my way back i saw the jw trolley was at the usual spot on the royal mile.

there was an older man and a young woman standing well back trying hard to look inconspicuous.

cofty
Quarterback
defender of truth
13 hours ago
James Jack
26
Former DO comments on Overlapping Generations
by James Jack in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 4 days ago
brother richard (dick) morlan, a former co & do for many years, now lives in gadsden alabama, usa.

he is 77 years old.

i saw him at a recent assembly in dekalb county alabama and ask him about the prospects of him dying in this "system of things".. his reply was, "i am going to make it till armageddon, but if i should die before then, then the governing body is going to have to add another overlapping generation to another overlapping generations"!.

James Jack
Littleleslie
Finkelstein
2 days ago
truthseeker
14
Did Freddy Franz receive secret instructions from a Jewish aquaintance?
by truthseeker in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 4 days ago
i recently met a sister who told me she heard of a story that the late president of the watchtower society, mr. freddy franz, received secret instructions on how to direct the organization from a jewish acquaintance.. is this a conspiracy theory or could there be some truth to it?.

truthseeker.

compound complex
alecholmesthedetective
SonoftheTrinity
2 days ago
AndersonsInfo
36
Article from Jamaica: Jehovah's Witnesses' properties for sale - Rising costs force religious group to go small
by AndersonsInfo in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 4 days ago http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/news/20160410/jehovahs-witnesses-properties-sale-rising-costs-force-religious-group-go-small jehovah's witnesses' properties for sale - rising costs force religious group to go small.

sunday | april 10, 2016 | 12:00 am by erica virtue.

norman grindley.

TheOldHippie
SonoftheTrinity
JWdaughter
2 days ago
Ghiagirl
18
jws deny shunning, yet lie to not look bad
by Ghiagirl in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 4 days ago
i recently decided to take matters into my own hands with my husbands family who have nothing to do with us.

his mom has seen my son twice since he has been born and his dad has never met him.

his family will pop in every few months, on top of that like in my last post ask for for money.

TTWSYF
steve2
Juan Viejo2
3 days ago
Crazyguy
10
Three reasons why I may have to back.
by Crazyguy in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 5 days ago
i look back over the last two years of my life with all the experiences i have read about here and other places and these are three experiences that stand out to me.

recently in another post a girl relates her experience of being in the borg and her mom literally threw her away by giving her over to the state after she accused an elder of groping her.

two; i met the man that wrote the insight books for the borg and even though he was at the time the brians of the borgs doctines when he faded his family , brother and his kids are shunning him.

oppostate
Crazyguy
Skedaddle
4 days ago
joe134cd
5
Australian zone visit today
by joe134cd in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 5 days ago
i believe it's taking place as i type this.

just curious if anyone knows what's it's about.

just want to prepare myself for it in case my father should bring it up.

jookbeard
skin
mana11
4 days ago
brandnew
10
Argument at the bar !
by brandnew in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 5 days ago
is a hotdog considered a sandwich ???

?.

Village Idiot
millie210
brandnew
4 days ago
fulltimestudent
20
Fraud
by fulltimestudent in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 5 days ago
if someone commits financial fraud, they commit a crime, and can be punished (jailed).. but if someone commits a religious fraud, western society does not see that as a crime.. on another thread, a poster pointed out that the jws, "literally steals peoples lives and causes horrendous damage.

of course, the jws are not the only religion to practise religious fraud.

all sorts of large and small religions make unverifiable promises and ask for financial support on the basis of their promises, which is precisely what financial defrauder does.

fulltimestudent
pbrow
SAHS
18 hours ago
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Athanasius
15
Another JW Literature Trolly Experience
by Athanasius in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 a day ago
this morning i stopped at dollar general to get a cheap container for waste paper.

it was 11:30 am and there were two jw literature trolleys parked near the store and manned by three jws, on old man in a rolling chair, a 30 something man, and 30 something woman.

as i walked by them i glanced at the their literature rack and proceeded into the store.. i was in the store for 20 minutes and made my purchase.

TheListener
dbq407
Heaven
21 hours ago
raven
7
Any one from Colorado?
by raven in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 2 days ago
any one on the forum in the colorado area?.

i would love to get to know local ones who are out of the organization or who are currently df'd da'd faded.

i am going through some tough times trying to endure the journey of fading out of the organization and would love to get to know all of your stories as well as those locally!.

stephanie61092
BlackWolf
raven
15 hours ago
keyser soze
47
My 14-year-old niece is being disfellowshipped
by keyser soze in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 2 days ago
i was contacted by my ex sister-in-law yesterday.

she asked me if i wanted to spend some time with my niece, while she went to her sister's baby shower.

it turns out my niece can't go because she's about to be disfellowshipped at the ripe old age of 14. .

steve2
mana11
No Apologies
9 hours ago
no-zombie
44
Australia Branch to end magazine printing
by no-zombie in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 2 days ago
just one week from the zone overseer's visit is the announcement that the magazine production by the australia branch will end in a few months.

the task being transferred to the japan branch.

while i'm not 100% certain, i understand that this effectively ends all major printing bar perhaps tracts, handbills and other loose items.

stuckinarut2
sparrowdown
pepperheart
13 hours ago
roberto avon
ARE THERE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN ITALIAN, GERMAN AND AMERICAN ( or Anglosaxon countries) JWS ?
by roberto avon in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 2 days ago
reading many of the posts on this and on other sites i came to this conclusion.

my experiences living among jws are;- my brothers in law are and were entrepeneurs since 25 years working very hard and earning good money.

so they are quite wealthy- they bought nice houses and big cars and go on holiday around the world- we had in our family two dfshipments but there was no shunning- their children had the opportunity to study and for the moment not all became jdubs.- they have an acceptable relationship with the part of non jw familyis this tipically " italian "?

poopie
40
Help messy problem
by poopie in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 3 days ago
the problem is i have a baptized witness going out on service door to door giveing comments at kh who for the last 4 years has had sex with at least 10 prostitutes and regularly takes drugs ie speed the cong has no idea he's doing this he says he will never go to elders for fear his family will shun him if df so he continues i know because he tells me everything should i tell the elders or not.

JWdaughter
sparrowdown
Wild_Thing
a day ago
AndersonsInfo
1
msn.com: Losing my religion: life after extreme belief - EXPERIENCES OF 3 YOUNG PEOPLE
by AndersonsInfo in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 3 days ago http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/losing-my-religion-life-after-extreme-belief/ar-bbrzkjy?li=aaggnb9.

megan phelps-roper, 30, a former member of the westboro baptist church.

my first memories are of picketing ex-servicemen’s funerals and telling their families they were going to burn in hell.

steve2
3 days ago
Andy Dufresne
21
Suppose I ought to introduce myself.....
by Andy Dufresne in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 3 days ago
i've left a couple of semi-"humorous" remarks, but not yet said a proper hello....but firstly thank you, to all, for this site and all its comments.i have been lurking on this site for 4-5 years, awake for 5-6 years and seriously fading for the last 4 years.

i am now "out" and widely considered "out" by the congregation but due being very cautious and playing a very long game, (and having a wife who understand the repercussions of blowing the whistle on the few viewpoints i have discussed with her) i have not been df'd of da'd.

this forum has been a crutch and guide as well as helping me wake - and the humour many on here use has been a welcome relief.

Diogenesister
DesirousOfChange
Andy Dufresne
2 days ago
Ben131895
2
Field service in Germany
by Ben131895 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 3 days ago
i left the organization 34 years ago but are still interested how the developments are.. when i stopped working 13 years ago (i am dutch) we moved to germany, just across the border since houses were 50% cheaper than in holland and the germans are a more polite people.

we live in a little town with 20.000 people.. in holland we didn't see the witnesses too often, perhaps two times a year.. in germany (at least in my little town) i have not seen the witnesses in all these 13 years.

they are standing in the shopping center and most of the time also at the railway station with a trolly.

prologos
TheOldHippie
3 days ago
stephanie61092
6
Feeling anxious, venting...
by stephanie61092 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 3 days ago
good morning all,.

this is just a rambling post.

at the meeting yesterday during the wt study, i started flipping through the magazine to try to pass the time.

stephanie61092
DesirousOfChange
TheListener
2 days ago
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ShirleyW
2
JW Story on Dateline this Friday
by ShirleyW in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 11 hours ago
pam candelario, ralph candelario, dateline nbc: colorado man killed second wife, first wife still missing.

.

the title of an article in the inqusitr, i get the google alerts for the dubs, but this site for some reason i couldn't do a cut and paste, anyway, if you're interested to see why one of jehovahs loyal servants would kill his 1st and 2nd wives it's supposed to be broadcast this friday at 10pm est..

dazed but not confused
dazed but not confused
11 hours ago
time2keepmoving
15
My sister who is still in is going to Costa Rica as a missionary
by time2keepmoving in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 13 hours ago
i left the organization in 2011 and never look back.

i left behind my sister and her two daughters by mid 2015 both her daughters (both are in their early twenties) were disfellowshipped and left the organization.

she has decided to go to costa rica as a missionary (i guess that's what they are still calling them, unless that has changed, been gone so long i don't know if they came up with a new term for it).

sir82
ttdtt
WingCommander
12 minutes ago
Onacruise2NephewBoogaloo
8
Friends of onacruise
by Onacruise2NephewBoogaloo in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 19 hours ago
i was born into the elastic fact, tract & knock knock club, as it is known to some, but most often you will hear them referred to as "the worst thing i've ever been through.

"i had the typical jw early life of forced compliance by sadistic joy killing narcissists.

i learned early on that 'new light' doesn't come from stifled children and there was no suggestion box at my house.. when i was 6 my parents divorced and my mom quickly remarried and we moved from portland to the oregon coast.

ZAPPA-ESQUE
talesin
talesin
4 hours ago
Drifting Away
20
Another Newbie
by Drifting Away in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 21 hours ago
hello, i have been lurking for a while, but discovered ttatt for about 8 months now.

i am trying to fade out, problem is i have a big family i would lose if i got df'ed or da,'ed myself.

my wife knows how i feel, and is not thrilled but i cant hide my feelings.

Drifting Away
LoveUniHateExams
alanv
36 minutes ago
Michelle
6
Bible Visit
by Michelle in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
is anyone here from imus cavite?

i need someone come to our house.

i need someone to invite my father.

steve2
defender of truth
defender of truth
14 hours ago
pale.emperor
15
Drifting what i've feared has started already...
by pale.emperor in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 a day ago
im in the process of drifting out.

my entire family are jw's.

my wife and her family are too.

Jehalapeno
Drifting Away
Andy Dufresne
21 hours ago
purrpurr
5
Thinking of writing a book about jw's, what should I put in it?
by purrpurr in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
i've just finished reading alan miller's "fade from the truth", i enjoyed it and i love that it's freely available.

so i was thinking of writing a book of my own.

not an account of my life but more a simple step by step look at jw's and what they are really like?

JW_Rogue
atomant
punkofnice
6 hours ago
RocketQueen
17
I'm a Non-JW looking to ask a few questions re dfing
by RocketQueen in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
someone close to me has been brought up as a jw since a very early age.

he's now looking to exit.

he was baptised as a teen and is now early 20s.

pale.emperor
rawe
poopie
4 hours ago
Dunedain
6
Anybody remember those brothers that would harass, and hound the elders into making them, finally, appoint him as an elder himself?
by Dunedain in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 a day ago
lol, for some reason, i was thinking back to all the many "characters" that were often so prevalent in kingdom halls back in the day.

they are, i am sure, still there now, but fortunately i haven't been in a kh for like 20 years.. anyway, i remembered this one brother, who was dying to be made an elder.

he could not believe he wasn't an elder yet, after sooo many years.

pale.emperor
WingCommander
Darkknight757
a day ago
Athanasius
15
Another JW Literature Trolly Experience
by Athanasius in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 a day ago
this morning i stopped at dollar general to get a cheap container for waste paper.

it was 11:30 am and there were two jw literature trolleys parked near the store and manned by three jws, on old man in a rolling chair, a 30 something man, and 30 something woman.

as i walked by them i glanced at the their literature rack and proceeded into the store.. i was in the store for 20 minutes and made my purchase.

TheListener
dbq407
Heaven
21 hours ago
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RocketQueen
4
Is this for real???
by RocketQueen in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 2 hours ago
is this a real thing or has someone designed this as a joke?http://wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/files/2016/03/jwmaze.jpg

Darkknight757
TTWSYF
Darkknight757
8 minutes ago
James Mixon
8
Kobe 60 points last game
by James Mixon in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 8 hours ago
the old guy went out with a bang..l.a lakers.

a great career

freemindfade
WingCommander
freemindfade
14 minutes ago
Sledracer
8
Cognitive Dissonance is the feeling of uncomfortable tension which comes from holding two conflicting thoughts in the mind at the same time.
by Sledracer in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 11 hours ago
cognitive dissonance is the feeling of uncomfortable tension which comes from holding two conflicting thoughts in the mind at the same time.

this is what is wrong with me, i have a love hate relationship with the jw's.

disposable hero of hypocrisy
Diogenesister
freemindfade
an hour ago
ShirleyW
2
JW Story on Dateline this Friday
by ShirleyW in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 11 hours ago
pam candelario, ralph candelario, dateline nbc: colorado man killed second wife, first wife still missing.

.

the title of an article in the inqusitr, i get the google alerts for the dubs, but this site for some reason i couldn't do a cut and paste, anyway, if you're interested to see why one of jehovahs loyal servants would kill his 1st and 2nd wives it's supposed to be broadcast this friday at 10pm est..

dazed but not confused
dazed but not confused
11 hours ago
time2keepmoving
15
My sister who is still in is going to Costa Rica as a missionary
by time2keepmoving in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 13 hours ago
i left the organization in 2011 and never look back.

i left behind my sister and her two daughters by mid 2015 both her daughters (both are in their early twenties) were disfellowshipped and left the organization.

she has decided to go to costa rica as a missionary (i guess that's what they are still calling them, unless that has changed, been gone so long i don't know if they came up with a new term for it).

sir82
ttdtt
WingCommander
13 minutes ago
Onacruise2NephewBoogaloo
8
Friends of onacruise
by Onacruise2NephewBoogaloo in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 19 hours ago
i was born into the elastic fact, tract & knock knock club, as it is known to some, but most often you will hear them referred to as "the worst thing i've ever been through.

"i had the typical jw early life of forced compliance by sadistic joy killing narcissists.

i learned early on that 'new light' doesn't come from stifled children and there was no suggestion box at my house.. when i was 6 my parents divorced and my mom quickly remarried and we moved from portland to the oregon coast.

ZAPPA-ESQUE
talesin
talesin
4 hours ago
Drifting Away
20
Another Newbie
by Drifting Away in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 21 hours ago
hello, i have been lurking for a while, but discovered ttatt for about 8 months now.

i am trying to fade out, problem is i have a big family i would lose if i got df'ed or da,'ed myself.

my wife knows how i feel, and is not thrilled but i cant hide my feelings.

Drifting Away
LoveUniHateExams
alanv
36 minutes ago
Michelle
6
Bible Visit
by Michelle in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
is anyone here from imus cavite?

i need someone come to our house.

i need someone to invite my father.

steve2
defender of truth
defender of truth
14 hours ago
pale.emperor
15
Drifting what i've feared has started already...
by pale.emperor in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 a day ago
im in the process of drifting out.

my entire family are jw's.

my wife and her family are too.

Jehalapeno
Drifting Away
Andy Dufresne
21 hours ago
purrpurr
5
Thinking of writing a book about jw's, what should I put in it?
by purrpurr in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
i've just finished reading alan miller's "fade from the truth", i enjoyed it and i love that it's freely available.

so i was thinking of writing a book of my own.

not an account of my life but more a simple step by step look at jw's and what they are really like?

JW_Rogue
atomant
punkofnice
6 hours ago
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Lost touch with old friends from your old congregation? Find them here!
 255,350 posts in  11,847 topics

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