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Inside NYC's Social Club for the Former Devout!
by truthsetsonefree 4 hours ago 6 Replies latest 33 minutes ago   jw experiences
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truthsetsonefree
truthsetsonefree 4 hours ago

I am very proud of this video and article. This marks the going public of a community that I co-founded with my friend Todd Kadish that is very important in New York City, indeed for everyone. Especially for those who have escaped from some very controlling organizations a chance to integrate into the real world while still feeling validated and avoiding bitterness. I hope you all enjoy, feel free to share with your Networks.
The link is: http://gothamist.com/2016/04/27/ex_religious_social_network.php

 
Dagney
Dagney 4 hours ago

That is a fabulous article. Congrats on organizing and providing this community. I hope it spreads to more cities.


 
Phizzy
Phizzy 3 hours ago
A terrific idea, we ex JW's are not the only ones who lose friends and family when leaving a religion, well done to all who started this !
 
steve2
steve2 3 hours ago

Sounds very interesting. I will follow up on this when I'm at home.
 
AndersonsInfo
AndersonsInfo 2 hours ago

Wonderful idea. We like the name of the group, Formerly Fundamentalist NYC. How about starting groups all over the US, Formerly Fundamentalist Nashville, or Formerly Fundamentalist LA, Formerly Fundamentalist AnyCity.
If interested, To get involved, email formerlyfundamentalistnyc@gmail.com.
Barbara  and Joe
 
Diogenesister
Diogenesister 2 hours ago

Fantastic...for SO many reasons, not least given the threat from fundamentalists at present in the world
Just wondering if Mr Issac Carmignani was one of the ones outed in the Facebook debacle that Cedars was so ambivalent about. Shocking. He was outed in 2006 apparently whilst an elder.
Would LOVE to start one in the UK...Cofty Katewild Jookbeard Loveuni Stanlivedeath  YOU UP FOR IT?
 
Diogenesister
Diogenesister 33 minutes ago
Love your Avatar truthsetsonefree , as a forty plus year old mum of twins I share the sentiment entirely!
 

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OK so what's this special meeting on Saturday about?
by purrpurr 14 hours ago 11 Replies latest an hour ago   jw friends
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purrpurr
purrpurr 14 hours ago
Anyone know?
 
sir82
sir82 14 hours ago
That's awfully vague. I doubt anyone knows what you are talking about.

 +1 / -0
freddo
freddo 14 hours ago


This is the UK Bethel visit by Flowdown and Kickout err ... Flodin and Kikot.
The great work is advancing, we're god's chosen ones so listen obey and be blessed. Oh and the borg needs your money.
Then the week after they will announce more being kicked to the field by London Bethel as printing is going to Germany.
That is my best hope ...

 +2 / -0
stillin
stillin 14 hours ago
Caleb and Sophia cartoon hour?
 +2 / -0
purrpurr
purrpurr 12 hours ago
Apparently there's a special meeting on Saturday which means the Sunday meeting is cancelled
 
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 12 hours ago
What is the first name of kikot?
 
punkofnice
punkofnice 11 hours ago

is this what you refer to?
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5681407590400000/special-talk-from-gb

 
BluesBrother
BluesBrother 8 hours ago

The one last year was three hours of nothing. I can't recall anything - it is a "service talk" to the London Bethelites now streamed to all congs in U K.
So far we have not had the like of the  "Spanx and Tight Pants " talk that Tony Morris gave the New Yorkers. I will be surprised if boring Flodin comes up with anything. He baffled everyone in the broadcast about "sin is garlic powder on a loaf of bead " a while back
 +2 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 8 hours ago

What else but more propaganda bullshit to go out in service to serve Jah by distributing the WTS literature to the public.
There is new information that has been discovered that shows that Armageddon will happen before the end of this year, so we should press on to appease Jehovah and show are steadfast loyalty and devotion.

 +1 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 6 hours ago


OK so what's this special meeting on Saturday about?
...........................http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/fictionalcrossover/images/2/2a/A_Pinky_and_the_Brain.png/revision/latest/window-crop/width/200/x-offset/46/y-offset/0/window-width/311/window-height/155?cb=20150422214110
.
...What's This Special Meeting............The Same Thing Special Meetings..

......On Saturday About Brain?............Are Always About Pinky.....NOTHING!..

.http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/tinytoons/images/5/58/Pinky%26theBrain.png/revision/latest?cb=20121107125411
 +1 / -0

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OK so what's this special meeting on Saturday about?
by purrpurr 14 hours ago 11 Replies latest an hour ago   jw friends
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Earnest
Earnest 3 hours ago

stuckinarut2 : What is the first name of kikot?
John Kikot

 
Finkelstein
Finkelstein an hour ago

The special talk will be how the organization has no connecting association to music stars and celebrities.
The main talk will given by the local Circuit Overseer titled .....

" They may join us, but that doesn't mean we join them "

 

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anyone know?



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I am pleased for the lucky bastards who have been spared my bible bashing.
by The Rebel 15 hours ago 7 Replies latest 6 hours ago   jw friends
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The Rebel
The Rebel 15 hours ago

I am seven months without bible bashing, without door-knocking, or standing by a trolley cart looking like a prat. And I feel the real winners are the " lucky bastards" who haven't had me telling them about Jehvover. Furthermore they are spared super pious me telling them what they can and can't do. Who am I to tell a perfect stranger he must shave his beard, study with me, not commit audultry, nor covet his neighbors wife?
Also in the last seven months I have been spared making a total prat of myself explaining to educated people, how Adam and Eve had all these children of different color skin, or trying to justify why a loving God allows so much suffering in the world.
Personally I have concluded there are millions of religions, so at best it's a big toss up what one if any is right. However it was certainly presumptuous of me to assume Jehovers Witnesses were the correct religion. Why cant buddisam be the right religion? I can imagine the shock if I was a perfectly good Witness only to die and Buddah laughing all over his face sends me back to earth as a worm.
Anyway I now believe in having a good time, and letting perfect strangers sin and convet their neighbors wife if they wish. It's really none of my business.
The Rebel.
 +5 / -0
Half banana
Half banana 15 hours ago
Well said Rebel!
 
The Rebel
The Rebel 13 hours ago

Seven months with out reading the bible or watchtower material, that's good isn't it?
Now let me tell you why it's good. Because the Watchtower is not about a message of good news, and thinking the destruction of 99.9% of the population is good news is ludicrous because it's not good news. Infact it's cruel and vicious.
My new message of the good news is Religion is a dicey subject at the best of times, it's all about getting in to arguments. It's a sad thing when humun beings with the capacity to smile and laugh can get so hung up on religion. Think about it, how often did you see genuine smiles and laughter at the Kingdom Hall?
The Rebel.
 +1 / -0
DJS
DJS 12 hours ago

The Rebel,
You are on a role; don't stop. Isn't that the best-est feeling EVER, not having to bother people with our arrogant nonsense. Plus we get to sleep in, go hiking, stay out all night . . . . . Saturday mornings rock.
 +2 / -0
MarkofCane
MarkofCane 11 hours ago

So true, Religion in my opinion has been to control and divide people throughout mans existence. I hated going to people homes uninvited to deliver a message not of hope but of doom. Ya we dressed it up as the "good News" but we understood destruction was upon them and their blood upon us, if we didn't boldly proclaim the message.
Fast forward to present and to realize its all a man made delusion.How presumptuous indeed to assume we only have the truth! Wasted so much of my life with this and I will never get those years back.........so time to start living like I'm dying.

 +2 / -0
Giordano
Giordano 10 hours ago

One day, many many years ago, I came to realize that Jehovah had already murdered a world and every living thing on it who wasn't in Noah's ArK, every animal, every child, even the unborn. All drowned because this so called God couldn't control those spirits in heaven, those half spirits on earth, nor could he keep mankind safe and secure.
Having failed the first time around He or She finds it necessary to do it again to the 8 Billion people on this planet. Or at least if your a believing JW.
This particular God is bi polar in the extreme. A Toxic God worshiped by a toxic religion. Thankfully He's as phony as his made up name.
 +2 / -0
baker
baker 10 hours ago
Don't sweat looking like a Prat, I'm sure as soon as they could get away from your "witness" they probably could not pick you out of a lineup. People just see a nice suit and tie and thats about it, most are preoccupied and busy with their own affairs to notice you, they just are looking for an out to get away.
 
dbq407
dbq407 6 hours ago

It's a sad thing when humun beings with the capacity to smile and laugh can get so hung up on religion. Think about it, how often did you see genuine smiles and laughter at the Kingdom Hall?

Thats what i was thinking about sitting there at the KH last night, and then i was like why on earth would anyone want to live forever with these yahoos?
 

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Here is what kind of person (Prince) a celebrity JW is
by Terry 21 hours ago 30 Replies latest 17 minutes ago   jw friends
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Terry
Terry 21 hours ago



 +4 / -0
justme
justme 21 hours ago
this is so funny, i am enjoying it, thanks for posting!
 +2 / -0
myelaine
myelaine 20 hours ago

Terry, you know there is the side friends "get" and the side people know, right?
I watched  the video you've posted again earlier this afternoon and had a few laughs and I've watched under the cherry moon quite a few times and it's clear the man had a sense of humour about himself.
Love his comment @ the beginning of this video. https://m.
I'm just gonna miss him in this world :(

https://m.


xo





 +3 / -0
Barrold Bonds
Barrold Bonds 20 hours ago
cool another prince thread
 +3 / -0
ZAPPA-ESQUE
ZAPPA-ESQUE 16 hours ago

Terry - I have dignified you by always reading your postings and literature with interest and respect - you come across as the sort of person I could easily have over to complement other "good" company at a barbecue for instance >
Your topic title makes no sense and ........is it necessary imho ?
What if [and you don't know this] he himself did not see himself as the Celebrity JW ? Maybe somewhere in his humanness he really was fighting his own demons? He too was just a victim of victims - maybe he desired an escape ?
You have let me down on this one !
N

 +3 / -1
myelaine
myelaine 16 hours ago

Terry believes there are grey areas, even talks about them...he just hasn't found it in himself to be cool with them cuz, well...
maybe he's scared?
 +3 / -1
myelaine
myelaine 15 hours ago

Nevermind that "grey" stuff I deleted.  ??
 
Terry
Terry 10 hours ago

What if [and you don't know this] he himself did not see himself as the Celebrity JW ?
___________
Two things we should be able to agree upon:
1. Prince was a Jehovah's Witness
2. Prince was a celebrity
If we are in agreement on those two things, does it really matter how Prince saw himself IF it was at odds with these two facts?
____________________
Maybe somewhere in his humanness he really was fighting his own demons?
_____________
The most obvious struggle Jehovah's Witnesses have is between their humanity and the control exerted by the Watchtower Society.
Prince was a creative, sexually liberated human straddling the judgmental oversight of fellow JW's and the expectations of his fans.
As we all know, cognitive dissonance allows people like Prince to hold two contradictory sets of ideas and pretend they can live with them.
___________________________
He too was just a victim of victims - maybe he desired an escape ?
__________________________
A rich man with a mind is a victim?
He is just as accountable as the rest of us, except he has money and privilege which makes life a lot easier if you ask me.
Prince pretty much got away with being a celebrity JW, didn't he?
He was untouchable because of the Governing Body's horror of bad publicity. If Prince desired "escape" all he had to do was publicly announce he wanted to leave and the GB would be powerless to stop him.
___________________
You have let me down on this one !
___________________
Why? Because you don't like the title of this topic? I don't understand your objection. I let the video speak for itself.
How did Michael Jackson get away with NOT being Disfellowshipped?
How did Prince?
The sort of people celebrity JW's turn out to be is not infrequently:
Nutty, eccentric, narcissist, and privileged. They are rich because their fans admire what they do and that is how Capitalism rewards them.
The GB doesn't hold them to the same standards as rank and file JW's and that makes them an Elite.
Why are you so eager to excuse celebrity JW's? They are not better and no worse than any of the rest of us. Hero worship seems to cause people to allow bad behavior with alarming regularity. Is that a good thing?
 +4 / -0
sir82
sir82 10 hours ago


How did Michael Jackson get away with NOT being Disfellowshipped?
MJ was DF'ed in the 80's. Or disassociated. Either way, he was (or should have been) shunned by JWs.

 +1 / -0
baker
baker 10 hours ago
Jw,s are love bombing and cutting and pasting any article positive for Prince on FB. Think I will cut and paste this one on Kevin Smith, just to balance out the obvious one sided posts...
 +4 / -0

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Here is what kind of person (Prince) a celebrity JW is
by Terry 21 hours ago 30 Replies latest 19 minutes ago   jw friends
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WingCommander
WingCommander 10 hours ago

I've seen that Kevin Smith experience with Prince before. It really proved to me just how out of touch with reality, and how much of an asshole Prince really is. Here on the last day, Kevin Smith worked long long hours and sacrificed time with his own son on Father's Day, and Prince couldn't even say "Thanks" at the end of it. I'd have been royally PISSED at such callous, disgusting treatment. But then again, this same level of hatefulness is pretty commonplace in Kingdom Halls all across the world. Goes with the territory. (Ha!)
Prince was a musical genius and an eccentric, self-centered asshole all wrapped up in one. I for one, can't understand the fascination or falling all over him over his death.

 +4 / -0
OnTheWayOut
OnTheWayOut 10 hours ago

It all makes perfect sense now.
With this video (repasted below) by myelaine, I have it all figured out.
Prince thinks he is an artist above all the pretenders and copiers.
Terry is the "Prince" of JWN with statements like this:

You don’t know shit! All you have is a strong opinion.
Now, I’ll give you my opinion.





 +4 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 8 hours ago

Prince was an over rated egotistical narcissist who loved and worshiped the self imposed image created around himself, influenced by being in the music business. An inherently insecure small man who needed that imposing image as a bigger than life celebrity to overcome his own perceived insecurities.

His noted behavior and social interactions with others is testament to that narcissistic personality.
I was in the music business back in the 80's when Prince started out and I could see a personality and character already being chartered and blueprinted into the future with this guy.
Too much ego and narcissism can destroy a person in the long run, Prince may have actually brought on his own destruction from being too much into himself, too deeply immersed into a highly elevated created image of being a " Gifted Artist."

Realistically Prince loved Prince more that anyone or anything, everything was accordingly lessen by the perceived imposed image that he himself created.

There was little down to earth humility in the man in other words, which may have been his most detrimental and compelling downfall.

 +4 / -0
Barrold Bonds
Barrold Bonds 8 hours ago
lol @ Prince being over-rated.
 
Witness 007
Witness 007 8 hours ago
Clearly he was high on opiates most of the time. He could talk for 5 hours jumping from weird idea to another and not sleeping for 4 days which is impossible without drugs. Totaly high.
 
ShirleyW
ShirleyW 8 hours ago

Prince sounds like the average two faced JW in this clip, preaching to this guy but when he asked for permission to use his song it was clear NO.
Then in front of a group of people he pulls out the bible from his pocket on another preaching tirade, but lives the double life in the entertainment industry,
 +1 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 8 hours ago

Prince's immersion into the JWS religion may have further extenuated that elevated perception as being unique and distinctly special, as JWs are indoctrinated to accept and believe. 

ie . We are the only true faithful worshipers to god on earth that's why god has exclusively chosen us.

 +1 / -0
Vidiot
Vidiot 7 hours ago
Weird attracts weird.
 +1 / -0
GrreatTeacher
GrreatTeacher 6 hours ago

Nah, witness007, perfectly possible with bipolar disorder, manic phase.
He could have lived at the intersection of genius and madness.
 +1 / -0
oppostate
oppostate 4 hours ago
Clinically speaking I think Prince's seizures as an infant left some damage. That may explain some behaviors in later life.
 

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lhcparuzpc



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Here is what kind of person (Prince) a celebrity JW is
by Terry 21 hours ago 30 Replies latest 37 minutes ago   jw friends
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Terry
Terry 3 hours ago
I found this concerning Michael Jackson and Jehovah's Witnesses:
His make up artist for 30 years Karen Faye wrote on her blog:
"When Michael arrived for his photo shoot for THRILLER, two men accompanied him impeccably dressed in suits, who sat over to the side on some cushy couches and watched his every move.
Since this was the first time I worked with him, it didn’t feel appropriate for me to ask who they could possibly be. I thought if he wanted us to know, he would have told us. I just felt their presence throughout the entire day. They left with him as mysteriously as they had entered with him. At the time I really did not give it another thought, because I had no idea of the adventure that was ahead of me.
The next shoot, there again…a mysterious gentleman, sitting in the background.
As our working relationship and friendship began to grow, I asked. He explained to me he was a Jehovah’s Witness. He was very active with the church, and these gentlemen were monitors. They watched over him. He also explained he went to bible study, and spent time going door-to-door teaching the word each week. I had to take pause for a minute and think about that one….
THRILLER had been released by the time he was explaining this to me. “You mean to tell me, that you ring someone’s doorbell, they come to answer it, and there stands Michael Jackson??????” He gave me one of his hi pitched belly laughs…and said, “yeah”. He further explained that he does it in disguise.
“Oh no you don’t.”
Still giggling, he paused and got amusingly serious. “Yeah, sure. After they let me in, they usually begin to look at me funny, so I end up admitting who I am.”
“Wow, I wish I could be a fly on the wall and watch that. I still can’t believe you do that.” I said.
“It is a big part of being a Jehovah’s Witness. We also do not celebrate holidays or birthdays. We believe that we should honor and celebrate these things daily, and not have just one day.”
So I asked “No birthdays. No Christmas?”
“No” he replied.
“Isn’t that difficult, when the world around you is decorating and singing carols?”.
“Yes, Turkle…it is always kind of sad, especially when I was a child, because it looked like so much fun. But it is okay; we have things like FAMILY DAY, where we all get together. There are hundreds of Jackson’s and we all try and be there.”
I could genuinely see the sadness in his eyes and the sense his feeling of loss, not celebrating Christmas with the other kids…so I changed the subject.
One August 29th, we ended up working. Everyone was wishing him Happy Birthday and giving him little presents. He smiled and graciously accepted them. Once we were in the privacy of the trailer, he put the gifts down on the seat, and looked down at them.
“I wish people wouldn’t do that. Please promise me, Turkle, don’t EVER say Happy Birthday to me.”
We were shooting SMOOTH CRIMINAL. I was accustomed to the monitors by now. The filming was going on longer than planned, as usual. We were preparing for a very big scene. Michael was surrounded by the alien battalion in a gully, built on stage 14.
The special weapons and ammunition team had briefed Michael on how to hold the machine gun and fire it. It was the last scene of the evening. Michael was having fun with it, like a little boy playing army. He took a strong stance, and fired as the cameras rolled.
That was a wrap for that evening, and we were given our call time for the next morning.
Michael was a little late arriving the next day. I was waiting in his trailer. He walked in so distraught. I didn’t understand, we were having so much fun the night before. He was silent as he sat in the makeup chair. I had to ask him please tell me. Please tell me what is wrong.
His eyes welled up with tears. “Mother called last night. The church called her, and told her that I held and fired a gun yesterday. They ordered that I have to make decision. I must leave the church, or leave the entertainment industry.” He was weeping as he uttered those words.
I was quite mortified. “What did your mother advise you to do?”
“She felt horrible. She told me it was up to me. She said she would stand by me with whatever I decided.”
“I see, you are here today”.
“Yes”
“Mother is supporting my choice”.
It took a while for Michael to adjust to his choice. He continued to feel uncomfortable with his birthday, but attended fan events in his honor, and truly enjoyed them.
When I was around him during Christmas, he would hide in his own closet to secretly wrap presents. He still held a tinge of guilt. I knew it was difficult for him, but I know he loved all the decorations that NEVER came down. He could freely give his children the birthdays that he never had. I knew deep down inside the Jehovah Witness teachings continued to hold a sacred place inside of him. That is why I was forever torn by not saying “Happy Birthday”. He never released me from my promise to not say it to him."

 +1 / -0
Terry
Terry 3 hours ago

sir827 hours ago

How did Michael Jackson get away with NOT being Disfellowshipped?
MJ was DF'ed in the 80's. Or disassociated. Either way, he was (or should have been) shunned by JWs.
_______________
I have tried to find some kind of citation for the DF claim and have come up short. Do you have anything you could share?
michael jackson letter to elders 1987
Here is a pretty complete article:
http://jwfacts.com/watchtower/experiences/michael-jackson-jehovah.php

 
redvip2000
redvip2000 3 hours ago

Prince pretty much got away with being a celebrity JW, didn't he?
Completely yes, and dare I say that he could have "pushed the envelope" much further than the average Jdub can. Here you see the hypocrisy of the organization where they are partial to money, fame, influence and the fact that they don't shy away from kissing a famous person's ass. No other Jdub could act that way, sing those songs, dress in those clothes, without being reprimanded (or worse). But the organization will gladly press its lips against Prince buttcheeks because he is famous, and makes them look a tad more relevant and hip, just like Michael Jackson did, another good(bad) example of this.

 +1 / -0
talesin
talesin 3 hours ago


As said by the original poster of this comment, it's either/or.  The 'or' has been proven true.  What's your point?
.
MJ was DF'ed in the 80's. Or disassociated.



Here is the preamble to a copy of the above letter on JWFacts. (I consider that is a trusted source ; ) It appears that Michael, according to JWFacts, disassociated himself, as stated in the conversation posted above, and the letter from the WTS.
http://jwfacts.com/watchtower/experiences/michael-jackson-jehovah.php

[bold is mine]

In 1987, Michael disassociated himself from the Watchtower Society.

Michael's decision to leave the church puzzled his mother, Katherine, and caused her great despair. Katherine wasn't sure she knew her own son any longer. However, there was no discussing the spiritual matter with him - literally. As it is strictly prohibited for a Witness to discuss matters of faith with ex-members, even if they are family, Katherine says that she has never asked Michael what happened, and she says that she never intends to ask such questions. 'I was not required to "shun" my son,' she claimed, referring to rumours of that nature. 'But we can't talk about matters of faith any longer, which is a shame.'" Michael Jackson: The Magic and the Madness p.363
The publicity surrounding Michael's disassociation promoted the Watchtower headquarters to send the following letter to the Body of elder's and Circuit Overseers explaining how to reply to questions.
"At this same time, the Jehovah's Witnesses' elders in Woodland Hills, California, began pressuring Michael again. They felt strongly that the recent publicity on the Witnesses was doing them great damage, and that it reflected poorly on the Witnesses, because Michael was so representative of the faith. Michael was becoming disenchanted with the church's elders by this time, mostly because he didn't wan to be told what to do. What's more he couldn't reconcile his lifestyle and career with the religion's strict tenets. In truth, it's almost impossible to be a Jehovah's Witness and be an entertainer. Therefore, in the spring of 1987, Michael withdrew from the Jehovah's Witnesses. A letter from the Jehovah's Witnesses headquarters in Brooklyn, New York, sent as a press release, stated that the organization 'no longer considers Michael Jackson to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses.' Gary Botting, author of The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses and a Witness himself, said that leaving the religion is 'worse than being disfellowshipped, or kicked out." He observed, 'if you wilfully reject God's holy organization on earth, that's the unforgivable sin, the sin against the Holy Spirit.'


 
3rdgen
3rdgen 3 hours ago

FWIW, I think a couple of things are at play here. It's true that Prince "apparently" got away with much more than the average J-dub. However, if an average male JW sporadically attends meetings because he works out of town, turns in some FS time each month (even if it is "informal"), has no desire to be in the ministry school, pioneer, carry mics or be "used" in any other capacity they can often avoid severe discipline.
The heat gets turned up IF and WHEN they are MS elder etc. who are expected to be EXemplary. It drives Watchtower NUTS if a man has absolutely NO desire to have any of their so called "privileges" (tm).
On the flip side I have close relatives who were in a band who played at weddings, parties, and local restaurants/bars. The CO came to town and gave them an ultimatum: Either quit or loose your MS and Elders positions. They were seriously hurt but the cult in them won and the band no longer played anywhere but at their homes. If they had picked their music they would simply have been treated like the sisters. LOL
 +1 / -0
sparky1
sparky1 2 hours ago



I'm ready for Saturday morning field service, brothers.  Who wants to be in my limousine, I mean car group?
 +2 / -0
talesin
talesin 2 hours ago

We also forget that Prince (a) knew Larry Graham at least for 40 years (since he was 17), (b) grew up in extreme dysfunction, (c) was a gifted musician, who played many insruments, (d) remembered by high school acquaintances as soft-spoken and gentle. He acted out sexually as an adult. It's likely that Graham was a father figure to him. Like many late-life converts, Prince knew bits and pieces of the JWS for most of his life.
It's well documented (in interviews) that when he changed his name back to Prince in 1999 (contract was done), that is the time he started studying 'for real' with Graham, who was (may still be) a JW elder. A father figure. In the early otts, Prince married a JW beauty, young, was baptized (probably dunked first). Several years later, he divorced. Was it scriptural? How important was it to this person, to keep Graham, a father-figure, in his life?
Also, he had the example of Graham, who is still revered as a pioneering funk artist for originating the slap-bass method he used when he played with Sly and the Family Stone (which many artists have used over the decades), and continues to be a successful, professional musician.


We are very kind to double-lifers who stay 'in' because of their family. In the very criticism of Prince's being treated 'special' by the WTS, you do the same thing. You hold him to a higher standard than you do elders and pubs who post on this DB. He was not an elder pioneer, or Bethelite. Why do you hold him to a higher standard?

It's part of the human condition, that we like to feel superior. It really shows when issues like this come up. I am reading a lot of jealousy and misplaced judgment, imo.
Edit and Postscript:
I have felt sorry for this gifted artist, ever since I 'heard the news' 15 years ago.  It saddened me that the cult finally had its claws in this person who was obviously damaged, and now seeking meaning in his life.  They took advantage of another needy soul, that's all.  He just happened to be famous.  xx
 +3 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein an hour ago

It would be perceivable that Prince may have faded from the JWS as of late.
He wasn't dropping the Jah innuendos while performing like he used to.
Who knows he may have come here and read some the information about the Borg sparking up some doubts.

 
sparrowdown
sparrowdown an hour ago

I love Prince's music and the guy was surely talented. I have no business judging his lifestyle choices, after all who really knows these megastars...I mean really knows.
I do have a huge problem, on the other hand with WT's double standards.
When dealing with a "big fish" they are tolerant and forgiving of personal matters and choices.
When dealing with regular r&f they are brutal, merciless, and intolerant of the slightest infraction. Happy to delete, disfellowship and "mark" people they have no use for as bad association and don't give a flying fig about the lives they destroy in the process.
The WT likely showed a very different side of themselves to "Brother " Prince than the one you and I are familiar with.
 +1 / -0
Terry
Terry 42 minutes ago

I said I would NOT post this until I saw it on DRUDGE REPORT.
Well, I just saw it.
Prince AIDS Death F

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/celebrity/prince-dead-aids-cause-of-death/

 

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Here is what kind of person (Prince) a celebrity JW is
by Terry 21 hours ago 31 Replies latest 11 minutes ago   jw friends
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Finkelstein
Finkelstein 38 minutes ago

The deep persuasive scrutinizing by this religion could been the reason why he eventually faded, too much control for a guy who wasn't easily receptive to being controlled.
I think the real compelling story here is why did a person who had to be rushed to a hospital under dire physical health distress, die abruptly only a few days later on ?

Was he misdiagnosed while he was being evaluated toward his overall physical condition ?

Didn't the doctors realize if he was taking opiate infused pain killers that they were causing some involving difficulties in their use ?  
 
talesin
talesin 11 minutes ago

I think the real compelling story here is why did a person who had to be rushed to a hospital under dire physical health distress, die abruptly only a few days later on ?
Perhaps, but certainly not unusual. Here's a list of celebs, most quite talented and extremely successful people, who died from prescription drug overdoses. Tragic? Yes. Surprising? Not so much.
Marilyn Monroe, Judy Garland, Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson, Chris Farley (morphine + cocaine = speedball), Corey Haim, Heath Ledger, Dana Plato, Anna Nichol Smith,
 

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Lets hear what your local needs was about this week
by dbq407 a day ago 21 Replies latest 3 hours ago   jw experiences
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dbq407
dbq407 a day ago

Ours started out with Matt. 25:23. He brought out that "good and faithful slave" was talking about the anointed but wait for it.........yes the principle can be applied to our cong. How you may ask? Well tonight it was about getting all the territories worked once a year. And our cong. hasn't done that.
Why is it important? Well as he stated 6 billion people will soon take their last breath, so we need to be going out whenever we can. He then used an illustration about fisherman fishing at night cause thats when the fish bite. Sure it's inconvenient for them but gotta fish when they are biting.
So we need to preach by phone, letter writing Monday nights, go out during the week, saturday mornings and afternoon, sunday afternoon blah blah blah. Never once commended the cong. but ended the talk with don't we want to be called "good and faithful slave"?
 +7 / -0
Darkknight757
Darkknight757 a day ago

Did he actually say 6 billion people will soon take their last breath? LOL



Oh ours was about Saturday meeting. Too bad we are leaving anyways.
 +2 / -0
dbq407
dbq407 a day ago

Did he actually say 6 billion people will soon take their last breath? LOL

Yes he was quoting a watchtower from a few years ago. But you know, witnesses aren't judging lol. He corrected it though and said that number is closer to 8 billion now.
 +4 / -0
Darkknight757
Darkknight757 a day ago
Glad I wasn't there dbq. I would have surely busted out laughing. 😂😂
 +2 / -0
breakfast of champions
breakfast of champions a day ago

Funny. . . .
So I haven't stepped foot in a hall in about a year and a half or so now, but I still get reports from my wife who still attends (drives her elderly mother -- very nice of her).
Anyway, tonight she comes home and says, "We had Local Needs tonight. What do you think it was about?"
So I put on my old Elder Hat, did a quick mental review of all my wife's observations over the past six months and said "Comments at meetings."
My wife said, "You're good!"
That's exactly what it was about. Some of the publishers have been using commenting as their own personal soapbox regarding what they feel are injustices in the congregation. Honestly, this congregation isn't half bad --- these people giving the comments are literally nuts.
But that's what you get when you're a cult.
 +8 / -0
talesin
talesin a day ago

don't we want to be called "good and faithful slave"?
No, we want to be called "free".
The whole concept is flawed, and they accept it. I just . don't. get it - and never did. Phew, thank the IPU!
 +8 / -0
hoser
hoser a day ago
I dunno. Our meeting is on right now. I'm still at work racking up the overtime and mrs hoser is taking some classes at the college
 +9 / -0
Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Billy the Ex-Bethelite 21 hours ago


He corrected it though and said that number is closer to 8 billion now.
Two billion extra children for the Bronze Age desert god to slaughter. God is love!


Well tonight it was about getting all the territories worked once a year. And our cong. hasn't done that.
There are territories in Muslim countries that have never been worked, ever. Time to pack up the litteratrash trolleys and head for the Middle East!

 +14 / -1
Lieu
Lieu 21 hours ago

So we need to preach by phone, letter writing Monday nights, go out during the week, saturday mornings and afternoon, sunday afternoon blah blah blah. Never once commended the cong. but ended the talk with don't we want to be called "good and faithful slave"?
Lol!!!!!! Someone should tell that fellow, no one can earn their way to salvation. With man, WTBTS, or the GB its not possible. Also, returning to places where it's evident no one is interested in being bothered with you is dumb. Vomit returners.

And fisherman don't go out at night. Early morning yes, but night, no.
 +5 / -0
Lieu
Lieu 21 hours ago
Muslims know of Christ. They believe he was the great prophet sent to the Jews (to whom the Jews didn't listen).
 +2 / -0

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Lets hear what your local needs was about this week
by dbq407 a day ago 21 Replies latest 4 hours ago   jw experiences
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berrygerry
berrygerry 20 hours ago


Yes he was quoting a watchtower from a few years ago
Could anyone provide a reference?

 +2 / -0
Late Bloomer
Late Bloomer 20 hours ago

He then used an illustration about fisherman fishing at night cause thats when the fish bite.
Ugh. That gives me flashbacks to the evening witnessing I was forced to do as a kid. Do they still do that? Screwed my whole day up. I preferred Saturday mornings where we got out and got it done and over with.
Has anyone ever been converted due to phone witnessing or letter writing? My mom searches the newspaper obits for addresses of the deceased to send JW junk mail and she's done this for years, maybe decades by now. To my knowledge she has never started a bible study this way. Why are preaching methods that are clearly ineffective still being encouraged? The cynical part of me thinks it's less about making converts and more about numbers and phone/letter witnessing are easy ways to rack up lots of time.
 +5 / -0
Lieu
Lieu 20 hours ago
Statistics
 +1 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 18 hours ago

Local Needs?
More Fear, Obligation, and Guilt!
 +2 / -0
smiddy
smiddy 18 hours ago

They only cover their territory once a year ? GEEEEzus , I`d be ashamed to admit that .
In a congregation I was in 25 years ago we covered our territory about once every 5 months ,admittedly it was saturated with publishers 20 miles north of Brisbane ,Aust.
I dreaded going back over the same territory with the current offer when only last week we covered it with the magazines.
No wonder my hours dropped off to about 5 or 6 a month.
smiddy
 +2 / -1
hillfy333
hillfy333 17 hours ago
To my knowledge she has never started a bible study this way. Why are preaching methods that are clearly ineffective still being encouraged? Personally i don't think conversion is the priority. I think the witness mind is obsessed with spreading the seed, and God will take care of the rest. So whether they are effective or not, the most important thing is to get the message out there. Sadly for them their message is false.

 +2 / -0
Driving Force
Driving Force 16 hours ago
Actually, keeping the publishers busy is the important thing for the leadership. If they are busy pursuing ineffective dumb tasks, there is less time for searching the internet and perhaps learning the ttatt. That is what cults do, it is all part of the mind control.

 +5 / -0
punkofnice
punkofnice 16 hours ago

when I was an elder, the directive of the BOE was to somehow crowbar 'ministry(tm)' into bl@@dy everything.
 +3 / -0
Juan Viejo2
Juan Viejo2 15 hours ago

Covering territories once a year? Something is just not right...
In the 1950s and 1960s, Southern California congregations were covering most populated areas at least once every 3-4 months. Our congregation had about 110 members, plus another 15-20 children under 15 who went door to door more or less by themselves.
Our total territory was fairly large, about 8-10 miles in each direction from our Kingdom Hall. My father was the Territory Servant for a few months - and like most things at the time - he delegated the actual clerical work of his position to me. I was still in my mid-teens.
I can't remember the exact way we managed everything (far too many years ago), but basically we would get three or four new maps from the Automobile Club that covered our city. We then outlined our Kingdom Hall territory boundaries. We used some kind of colored pens or crayons and marked all of the major streets with heavy lines and smaller thoroughfares with somewhat lighter lines.
Then the congregation servant, assistant congregation servant, the territory servant (my father), the Ministry School Servant, and each of the Tuesday night Book Study Conductors would have a meeting and reconsider the entire map and territories.
There were many considerations involved. First was locations of remote Tuesday Night Bookstudies. In those days, we often went out in service for 45 minutes before the 8:00 PM Book Study began (late spring <---> early autumn). So those territories around the remote meeting locations were selected and marked with thin colored pencil lines. Most were about six city blocks square, with an adjacent major street or boulevard. The idea was that we could walk or all hop in a single car and just go hit a few streets nearby for 30-40 minutes before the Book Study started. Doing that alone enabled some of us to get 2 to 4 service hours each month toward our goal of 10-15.
The next group of territories were the more remote and less populated areas best served by small groups or single publishers. We outlined them in one color of ink or crayon.
More populated areas were usually limited to about 6 city blocks in each direction, more or less square. We tried to avoid having to cross wide or heavily trafficked boulevards or feeder streets. Tuesday Book Study locations were marked and larger areas around them were blocked off. The Kingdom Hall area was divided into four or five medium segments so that multiple groups could meet at the Kingdom Hall on Saturday and Sunday mornings and be able to walk to assigned territories.
I can only remember about a half dozen regular pioneers serving in our congregation at any one time, but each of them would be given a small cutout map on a cardboard card and an assigned territory for a minimum of 30-days. They would exchange them each month for another territory - unless they admitted to having not covered the territory completely. An estimate of the number of residences was marked on the back of the card.
For a brief time our Territory Servant would make note of addresses reported as having vicious dogs or threatening residents. However, one of the Circuit Servants told us not to do that anymore "because situations change and we can not avoid delivering the good news" to anyone just because they had a mean dog or threatened to kill us.
When I "vacation pioneered" during my summer school break, I was given my own territory card to work. I was a dedicated VP so made sure to cover the territory completely. When I was done, I would go to the Territory Servant and ask for an exchange. Just working by myself and riding to the territory on my bicycle, I could usually cover a complete territory in less than two weeks. And I faithfully hit every living unit in the territory, even going back to "not at homes" and other "go-backs" several times to make sure that I had contacted everyone in the territory. I think one summer I must have covered 20-25% of the territories in one quadrant during my summer vacation - and that did not count Saturday and Sunday mornings when I went out with my family.
Why would I do such a thing? Very simply because I was a true believer. I was afraid that Jehovah would judge me harshly if I did not go to every door and put forth every effort to place magazines - or at least leave a public talk invitation - within my assigned territories.
I imagined being called before Jehovah on "Judgement Day" and being denied eternal life because "YOU FAILED TO KNOCK ON EVERY DOOR WHEN YOU WERE VACATION PIONEERING IN 1959 ON 4TH STREET. SOMEONE ON THAT STREET DIED OF NATURAL CAUSES BEFORE HE LEARNED OF GOD'S TRUTH AND YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE." I really believed that even though I knocked on 50 doors one day, but bypassed a few houses for whatever excuses I might have had might result in being incinerated during Armageddon. The risk was too great - so I hit every doorstep.
Now I look out my office window and see JWs working in our neighborhood bypass our house and others - often hitting only a few homes on each side of the street. One day a car pulled up in front of my house and a well-dressed couple got out. Both were carrying "book bags" when they finally got out of their car - after sitting there for nearly 20 minutes. Even though they were parked in front of my home, they did not knock on my door or the two across the street from me. But I did see them slowly walk up the street and hit about three or four others briefly before returning to their car and then driving away. I have no idea why they would park their car and then walka ways to visit other homes. I figured they were on my street a total of 45 minutes, with at least 15-20 being spent inside their car.
I would have had sleepless nights when I was a teenaged Pioneer - wondering how I would explain that type of half-hearted door-to-door service to Jesus - or god forbid - Jehovah!
I finally came to my senses when I turned 21. I figured I had better things to do with my time and would take my chances if Judgement Day ever came.
JV
 +11 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 4 hours ago

Current Population is :
7,418,536,274
There is this thing called GOOGLE not sure if anyone has heard of it:)
 +1 / -0

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ours started out with matt.
25:23. he brought out that "good and faithful slave" was talking about the anointed but wait for it.........yes the principle can be applied to our cong.
well tonight it was about getting all the territories worked once a year.



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Lets hear what your local needs was about this week
by dbq407 a day ago 21 Replies latest 4 hours ago   jw experiences
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Phizzy
Phizzy 4 hours ago

That figure is out of date already, too many births since you posted it, several thousand !
We have some friends who moved in just down the road last November, for certain reasons someone is always at home, they have yet to be called on.
 
nonjwspouse
nonjwspouse 4 hours ago
I can count on one hand, maaaaybe two, how many times my neighborhood has been called on, or at least how many times I have either seem them or actually had a knock at the door. I have lived in this same house for 25 years. This is not a remote neighborhood. Actually about two miles from a major highway.

 

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Topic Summary
ours started out with matt.
25:23. he brought out that "good and faithful slave" was talking about the anointed but wait for it.........yes the principle can be applied to our cong.
well tonight it was about getting all the territories worked once a year.



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Child safety in the UK
by usualusername1 a day ago 3 Replies latest 4 hours ago   jw friends
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usualusername1
usualusername1 a day ago
Heh
I was at a function this evening and was chatting to the assistant of the CEO of the biggest charity for child safety in the UK. I spoke about safeguarding and the huge investigation currently going on. The gentleman is a member of some heavy weight committees on child safety.
I have her bosses ear. Do I just send her a brief email? Do I send her links to other articles to ex JWs have written? It is an opportunity and not one I want to waste.
Any suggestions would be welcome.
Thanks
UUN
 +5 / -0
jwleaks
jwleaks a day ago
You could always keep it simple and ask them to make a submission to the Charity Commission re: Watchtower.
 +1 / -0
Phizzy
Phizzy 5 hours ago

I think you must direct them to the easiest to understand info. that needs no explanation. John Cedars, Lloyd Evans, (JW Survey) has produced a Video on this, plus articles. He is easily contacted by them if they require further info.
As you say , too good an opportunity to miss.
 +0 / -2
defender of truth
defender of truth 4 hours ago

I am not sure that Cedars would be the best person to refer this gentleman to..
I would quite strongly recommend asking him to contact either Barbara Anderson or Paul Grundy (jwfacts).
Barbara really knows her stuff, and also Paul Grundy worked with the ARC regarding this issue.
Here are their contact details:

http://watchtowerdocuments.org/contact-barbara/
http://jwfacts.mobi/contact-me/
In the meantime, maybe you could send him this link? (Jehovah's witnesses ARC case, evidence and findings).
www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.aspx
Please keep us updated, if you are able to.

 

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Jehovah's Witnesses
Discuss anything Jehovah Witness, JW.org or WatchTower society related
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dbq407
21
Lets hear what your local needs was about this week
by dbq407 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 a day ago
ours started out with matt.

25:23. he brought out that "good and faithful slave" was talking about the anointed but wait for it.........yes the principle can be applied to our cong.

well tonight it was about getting all the territories worked once a year.

ttdtt
Phizzy
nonjwspouse
4 hours ago
usualusername1
3
Child safety in the UK
by usualusername1 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
hehi was at a function this evening and was chatting to the assistant of the ceo of the biggest charity for child safety in the uk.

i spoke about safeguarding and the huge investigation currently going on.

the gentleman is a member of some heavy weight committees on child safety.

jwleaks
Phizzy
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4 hours ago
Terry
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