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How Many Elders And Ministerial Servants Are There In Your Congregation?
by Village Idiot 2 days ago 22 Replies latest 8 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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Village Idiot
Village Idiot 2 days ago
I'm curious to see how much manpower a little congregation - a hundred? - requires to keep it running.
 +1 / -0
zophar
zophar 2 days ago
There are 3 elders and 6 MS in the local congregation.
 +1 / -0
LevelThePlayingField
LevelThePlayingField 2 days ago
There are roughly 95 pubs in my cong and have 4 ms and 5 elders.
 
humblepotato
humblepotato 2 days ago

60 Publishers
4 Elders
4 Ministerial Servants (only two are really used)
 
xjwsrock
xjwsrock 2 days ago

90+ publishers
10 elders
3 Servants
 
Dunedain
Dunedain 2 days ago

The last time I was at my KH/cong. of my youth, it was a little over 20 years ago. Back then in a congregation of about 120 publishers, there was 10 to 12 elders, and 12 - 15 MS's. I heard that NOW, 20 years later, there are only about 75 publishers, and 6 elders, and 6 MS's.
Understand, too, that this is a congregation that is in one of the boroughs of NYC, where they have access to bethelites, and others to "fill in the ranks". Looks like a huge decline, on all levels, if ya ask me.

 +1 / -0
karter
karter 2 days ago

In my old congro they kept lowering the bar to be an Elder or M.S so there were plenty but quality was at best questionable.
Karter.

 +1 / -1
sir82
sir82 2 days ago

12 elders & 6 MS
That ratio is becoming very common, and spells major trouble for the future of the WTS.
Elders are getting older and become limited in what they can do, or die off, or get deleted. And there aren't enough replacements.
For example, of that group of 6 MS, only one has the potential to be an elder one day. And of the 12 elders, only 4 are under age 63. I.e., within 10 years, the congregation will collapse (unless there is an influx of new elders moving in).

 +2 / -0
alanv
alanv 2 days ago
I think its true to say, that if a cong is a bit short of elders or mini servants, they just lower the bar a bit. Its not as if they need to use their brain a lot for the work they do, as the Watchtower lays out exactly what they should do.
 
TheOldHippie
TheOldHippie 2 days ago
60 JWs, 5 elders, 1 MS
 

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How Many Elders And Ministerial Servants Are There In Your Congregation?
by Village Idiot 2 days ago 22 Replies latest 8 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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Alligator Wisdom
Alligator Wisdom a day ago

Local foreign language congregation : 50 publishers / 9 elders / 2 MS
Local congregation : 100 publishers / 3 elders / 2 MS
Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously)
 +1 / -0
LevelThePlayingField
LevelThePlayingField 19 hours ago
Does anybody see a pattern here?
 
TheOldHippie
TheOldHippie 17 hours ago
Yes, there are remarkably fewer elders than publishers.
 
St George of England
St George of England 16 hours ago

100 publishers
15 elders
4 ministerial servants
How several of the elders got to be appointed I cannot imagine.
George
 
Diogenesister
Diogenesister 14 hours ago
The pattern is fewer ministerial servants than elders!!!!
 
konceptual99
konceptual99 14 hours ago

Approx 110 publishers. We had 11 elders but one was stabbed in the back and forcibly dumped last week after 40+ years on a pure technicality.
Dunno how many minis - must be around 5 or 6.
 
sir82
sir82 14 hours ago

Some might say, lots of anecdotes about elders outnumbering MS, and anecdotes <> evidence, but....
I recall an elders school some years ago where it was "officially" said that elders significantly outnumbered MS, at least in the US. I could probably find the numbers in my notes if I cared enough to look.

Kids are wising up and leaving, and of the few who remain, most have little interest in "reaching out".
And even those who do want to "reach out", many if not most head for greener pastures. They are bored with the same old congregation, and so move on foreign-language groups, or do "need-greater" assignments, etc.
I keep saying, and I think it will come true - there will be a leadership crisis in US/European congregations before many more years pass. Elders will keep dying off or stepping aside, and there aren't enough replacements.

 +2 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 13 hours ago
7 elders ( 2 who are very old and non functioning) and I think 2 servants - about 100 pubs
 
rebelfighter
rebelfighter  13 hours ago
I just have to ask. I am not a JW and have never been in a KH but what exactly does the Elders have to do? Based on this thread they are responsible for on average 100 members of the congregation. Based on other threads the meetings are completely outlined for them by HQ, everything they do is outlined for them for meetings which is 4 Sundays and 4 midweek meetings. Then of course I guess they have to do some "council" of wayward ones. Please help me understand why it takes so MANY men to Shepard so few flock. I really am trying.
 
konceptual99
konceptual99 12 hours ago

There are two aspects to it rebel.
Firstly there is a surprising amount of work because the org makes it so with copious paperwork, form filling, procedures etc. Really four or five elders is a minimum for a congregation above 80 or so people assuming those elders are healthy and have a reasonable amount of time. Many elders are older, are ill or have family circumstances that limit what they can do.
Secondly, having "privileges" in the congregation, especially being an elder, is aspirational and an outward sign you are "spiritual". It's a marker to everyone else that you can be trusted and are loyal. A man older than his late 30s who is not a ministerial servant, let alone an elder, is usually considered a little suspect even if everything else they do conforms to the norm.
Being an elder is a control mechanism, both of the flock the elder is in charge of and the individual holding the position.
 +1 / -0

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i'm curious to see how much manpower a little congregation - a hundred?
- requires to keep it running.



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How Many Elders And Ministerial Servants Are There In Your Congregation?
by Village Idiot 2 days ago 22 Replies latest 8 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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rebelfighter
rebelfighter  10 hours ago

The reason I asked the question was I am also involved in an International organization but one that is geared towards true charity works. We do not have a HQ that demands of us our every move just a basic guideline of meeting format. The meetings are set and run by the current Worthy Matron who is elected into office by the entire chapter membership and she serves a term of 1 year. Her journey to become Worthy Matron takes 5 years as she is elected into the line of officers. Once she reaches the position of Associate Matron she will invite a gentleman to sit next to her for the next two years. This is honestly really for show and sometimes advise. There are 5 line officers. The entire membership consist of both women and men but more women then men. The average chapter will normally have about 90 to 140 members. With on average at least 20 active commitees. The Worthy Matron must attend all committee meetings, see that at least one fund raiser is held each month, prepare for the visit of the Grand Visitation which is somewhat similar to your CO visit as it is an inspection along with all members from just about every chapter from the state will come to see you perform your meeting so the attendance will be around 400 to 500. Along with a huge reception for all these visitors. No pressure on the Worthy Matron haha. Once you have held the station of Worthy Matron, then every meeting they will ask you to stand and introduce you and honor you. Some of us lucky fools have no clue how to say NO and do this crazy WM thing twice or even more then twice. Twice was enough for me so far.
Oh and we do have a dress code long white formals for the ladies. Guys do not get off to easy either we cut them no slack at all, tuxes guys.
 
konceptual99
konceptual99 9 hours ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Eastern_Star
 +1 / -0
rebelfighter
rebelfighter  8 hours ago

Konceptual99,
Very good work I did not mention the organization.
I have been dedicated to the different Masonic organizations for well over 40 years, they are very dear to my heart.
 

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i'm curious to see how much manpower a little congregation - a hundred?
- requires to keep it running.



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What is the Modern Christian's Role, According to the Bible
by JACOB Meza 2 days ago 7 Replies latest 2 days ago   watchtower bible
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JACOB Meza
JACOB Meza 2 days ago

Hello all,
If any other Christians can answer this:
What is the role of the believer in this day of the church (the body of Christ, not the building)?
Is preaching a main goal?
Other duties?
 +1 / -0
jhine
jhine 2 days ago

Yes preaching , but not door to door like the Witnesses say should be done to the exclusion of feeding the hungry , housing the homeless ,looking after orphans and all other good works .
Jan
 +1 / -0
JACOB Meza
JACOB Meza 2 days ago

@jan:
thanks
 
David_Jay
David_Jay 2 days ago

I have to agree with Jan's great reply.
In my Roman Catholic tradition the role of the Body of Christ, the Church, is to make God's Kingdom a present and practical reality for people.
Being more than a mere static government, God's reign is expressed by Christians not by making doctrines into unfeeling stones to judgmentally throw at others, but by an active participation in God's love for humanity and the physical world around us. It is less about making new members or even demanding that people adopt our theology or religion, and more finding ways to meet the real needs facing individuals today.
People are often marginalized, suffering in systems that keep them poor and wanting, stripped of their dignity, or told that they would be loved by God only if they changed this or that about them. But God loves people whether they believe in God or not. All people deserve freedom from want, freedom to exercise their conscience as they see fit, and freedom from isolation. One cannot merely offer Bible education or demand that people convert as a requisite to your caring for them. And we often have to put our personal conflicts and doubts aside in order to genuinely love others in ways that move us beyond our personal conceptual boundaries. People are far more important than inner church doctrinal debates and political conflicts.
The modern world is composed of more than believers or those who are searching or even want to believe. All these people are, as Christianity teaches, children of God regardless. And as such all need to be treated with the love that the image of God in each person demands be given of us.
While it is vital to teach the Gospel through accurate instruction, it is far more import to live the Gospel by loving your neighbor as the image of God they truly, really are. Without that, there is no Gospel or Bible to teach.
 +3 / -0
jhine
jhine 2 days ago

Jacob , you are welcome .
David , amen to that .
Jan
 +2 / -0
Lieu
Lieu 2 days ago

1. Love God with all your heart.
2. Treat your neighbors as you want to be treated.
That's pretty much it. Just about everyone on Earth knows the Good News about Christ, believers and non, so constant "preaching" is redundant.
3. Help those you see in need if you can.
Luke 6:27-36 NET

"But I say to you who are listening: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, [28] bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. [29] To the person who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other as well, and from the person who takes away your coat, do not withhold your tunic either.
[30] Give to everyone who asks you, and do not ask for your possessions back from the person who takes them away. [31] Treat others in the same way that you would want them to treat you. [32] "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. [33] And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do the same. [34] And if you lend to those from whom you hope to be repaid, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, so that they may be repaid in full.
[35] But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to ungrateful and evil people. [36] Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
Luke 6:37-38 NET
"Do not judge, and you will not be judged; do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven. [38] Give, and it will be given to you: A good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be poured into your lap. For the measure you use will be the measure you receive."

 +1 / -0
FayeDunaway
FayeDunaway 2 days ago
I as a protestant completely confer with what David Jay said. In our church we are encouraged to do what we can to spread Gods kingdom on the earth now, trying to make the earth and our community better in everything that we do. And also to know Jesus so intimately that we become like him, and can be Jesus' hands on the earth, helping the old and the sick and the lonely wherever possible.
 +2 / -0
fukitol
fukitol 2 days ago

You don't need religion to achieve any of those objectives, ignoring the absurd bits about some 'kingdom' and being required to 'love' an invisible, aloof and totally unprovable cosmic sky parent that says he loves you so much and will answer your prayers but cannot lift a finger to prevent evil and suffering cuz that's messing with your free will. Go figure.
If you have to go to church to learn to be nice to people and help the needy then there's something wrong with you.
 +2 / -0

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Assimilation day: Imitate Jokeovah!
by Darkknight757 3 days ago 19 Replies latest 2 days ago   watchtower bible
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Darkknight757
Darkknight757 3 days ago

So today was the one day assembly or whatever it's called now. Fun times.😳



Use resources wisely:
1 Cor 16:1,2 Now about the collection for the Lord’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.



-Set aside something early in the week for the storm deity.
-Be content with food and clothing.
-Budget money so you can donate.
-What is our focus? More important things being Kingdumb interest.
Family demo for a new phone that will mean a new contract. (Not a free phone so you have to pay for it=less money for pedos)



Exerting Power Responsibly:
"Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." LOL Governing body anyone???



Loving Others Loyally:
Psalm 9:5 You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked;you have "blotted out" their name for ever and ever.
God forgives and forgets,until the eltards meet with you to tell you all the crap you've done wrong over the past 5 years or so.😕



Baptism: 19 suckers. One kid couldn't be older than 12. What a waste of life.
Matthew 3:16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him.

-Did this mean that Jesus pre human memories were restored or did the clouds just open up?



-Encourage pioneering after baptism. Man sells business to support family. Gonna be screwed come retirement.



Acct: $10,000 last donation
$22,000 cost for assimilation
$24,000 so far-surplus instead of deficit.



You Must be Holy:
-Tight pants/metrosexual clothing and no superhuman shows. (Super girl)



Romans 12:1,2 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.


-So basically don't do anything normal people do like watch cool movies and shows because they are a product of Satan. (Boogidy boogidy boo)














 +2 / -0
Athanasius
Athanasius 3 days ago

19 baptized? That seems more than usual. Were they all teens or younger?
 +1 / -0
Wild_Thing
Wild_Thing 3 days ago

My family went to their one day assembly, too. I wonder if you were at the same one.
A few questions for you ...
1. Was there any mention of shunning family members?
2. They really said to watch no superhuman shows???? My God! The JWs I know in this area go to Comicon every time it comes to town, including my sister's family. Her elder husband's favorite shirt is his Superman shirt.
3. Anything about education?
Thanks in advance!
 +2 / -0
Lieu
Lieu 3 days ago

It's not possible to imitate God.
I don't care what Paul needed to say to ancient Romans about their dress. I've seen the paintings ... had nothing to do with tight clothing.
Also, collections were taken to FEED and clothe the needy under siege, not so some could sit comfortably on their bums or to make books.
 +4 / -0
Darkknight757
Darkknight757 3 days ago

The 19 were a good mix of people of all ages. Nothing special really with the exception of the super young kid.
Nothing about shunning or education.
 And yes they mentioned shows with "humans with God-like qualities."
 +4 / -0
Lieu
Lieu 3 days ago

Humans with God like qualities .... ugh! Blasphemy!
If man, Biblically speaking, is a little lower than the angels ... then why not start off with Angelic like qualities?
Why not Christ like?
At least pretend to work your way up.
 +1 / -0
Xanthippe
Xanthippe 3 days ago

And yes they mentioned shows with "humans with God-like qualities."
Instead worship the ones whose 'brother' calms the storms and who hope to meet Jesus one day. Strange their big brother with all his power can't seem to give them money so little kids have to give up ice-cream in order to donate.
 +3 / -0
Witness My Fury
Witness My Fury 3 days ago




 +8 / -0
Witness My Fury
Witness My Fury 3 days ago
Not sure why that gets resized to unreadable size.... it's on imgur.
 
Darkknight757
Darkknight757 3 days ago
The money that they make at these conventions is absolutely ridiculous. After the last convention I was really thinking the people would be fed up with the elders giving all the money away to the society but this was one of only two times in 20 years that they donated enough before lunch to more than cover the cost of the convention. And to have already given $10,000 last time? Geez if they only knew where the money was going.
 +2 / -0

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Assimilation day: Imitate Jokeovah!
by Darkknight757 3 days ago 19 Replies latest 2 days ago   watchtower bible
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freddo
freddo 3 days ago

19 baptised is disappointingly high! Lol.
What was the attendance please?
Was this mainstream USA? Or something unusual about the area?
 +1 / -0
Diogenesister
Diogenesister 3 days ago
Witnessmyfury I could read it fine....its brilliant, I love it!!!
 
Darkknight757
Darkknight757 2 days ago

This is a USA convention, nothing special.
Attn: was 2350 roughly.
Any thoughts on my hidden question?
At Jesus baptism "the heavens were opened up." Was this the clouds parting as I think OR did Jesus remember his pre-human existence as J-dubs believe?
 +1 / -0
freddo
freddo 2 days ago

Thanks Darkknight, actually 2350 is "big" for a circuit assembly round my way. Ours are usually about 900. So your 19 equates to about 0.8%.
So size for size that would be like our circuit assembly day having 7 baptised which would be higher than usual but not exceptional.
As for your question - the parts of the bible I still believe are relevant I tend to go with literal rather than anything beyond.




 +1 / -0
Darkknight757
Darkknight757 2 days ago
I'm thinking literal as well Freddo. They add this belief to Jesus baptism possibly to help establish his being Gods son rather than God the son. Not that I'm a believer, I'm more agnostic that is leaning toward atheist these days anyways. The only talking animal I believe ever existed was the famous Mr. Ed.
 +1 / -0
Xanthippe
Xanthippe 2 days ago

Matthew 3:16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him.
-Did this mean that Jesus pre human memories were restored or did the clouds just open up?
Well it reads like a bloody great pigeon landed on Jesus' head.
 +2 / -0
hoser
hoser 2 days ago
I went to the assembly last weekend I noticed a lot of people there that I hadn't seen in a while. Fence sitters. Our crappy economy is bringing people back to the fold.
 +1 / -0
Lieu
Lieu 2 days ago

I would think Jesus knew of his previous human existence growing up. When he was 12 and his parents, after searching, found him back at the Temple; he definitely knew something then. I would think his parents would mention something so significant.
The baptism was when he received the holy spirit and with it the power to perform miracles and forgive sin. The clouds parting and such was simply confirmation from God for the onlookers. There were people constantly waiting there to see who John (the baptizer) kept talking about.
He already knew who he was. When fully, who knows.



 +1 / -0
Darkknight757
Darkknight757 2 days ago

The other significant thing about this assembly was the CO's almost constant use of the term "the true God". It was crazy how many times he made reference to Jokeovah being the only true God.
edit: perhaps it is his way to grind it into the minds of people, much like cults do.
 +1 / -0
WTWizard
WTWizard 2 days ago

Use resources wisely? Putting aside funds for the Worldwide Damnation Fund is NOT using resources wisely. First, your basic needs need to be financed. After that, practical necessities. This group includes things that may not have been needed in earlier times but today are practical necessities. Cars, the Internet, and cell phones are in this category.
After that, it is up to you. I do advocate sensible amounts of luxury. Gambling should be done below your means if at all--responsible gambling is no worse than going to that super-expensive sports game. I also encourage all that can afford to invest to at least have some physical silver and/or gold. This will protect the value of your wealth.
Now, if you think you can afford to donate or you have already decided to put aside funds for this, think again. I recommend holding onto that money, and at the end of the month, go to your favorite coin shop or bullion dealer. Put that money into silver coins, you get to choose which silver coins you want because you are going to keep them. Now, just imagine a whole year, or 20 years, of this and what a stack of silver you can accumulate if you quit donating to the Worldwide Damnation Fund.
Also, do NOT quit your job simply because you can't get off for the Grand Boasting Session. Doing that is stupidity, since joke-hova is not going to provide for you. You can go to another if you really must. Also, I have had little problem finding YouTube videos of whole programs. You want to waste three whole days watching this? Go ahead and play those videos, or stream them and even burn them to DVD discs (you will have to split them into segments that fit on the discs). You can do that at your leisure, no quitting your job needed. Or, you can simply close out the browser or spit out the DVD 10 minutes into the program if you can't stand it. And no worrying about donating anything that way.

 +4 / -0

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so today was the one day assembly or whatever it's called now.
fun times.😳.
use resources wisely:.



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Oh happy people
by zeb 3 days ago 25 Replies latest 2 days ago   watchtower beliefs
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zeb
zeb 3 days ago

What is it with meetings?. So often she comes home throws her bag down and stomps around the house. There are times it thoroughly gets me down.
+ supportive comment welcome.
 +7 / -0
Landy
Landy 3 days ago
"Nice meeting dear?"
 +10 / -0
jookbeard
jookbeard 3 days ago
looking from the outside thats how we all probably was like, 2 hours sat in an uncomfortable stuffy hall hearing the same old boring stuff week after week, year after year, the they call it a spiritual paradise!
 +7 / -0
oppostate
oppostate 3 days ago

With my wife, if I don't go to the meeting there'll first be this silent disapproval attitude, with loud actions announcing it's time for getting ready to go to the meeting, and also quiet staring before leaving for the KH.
Then once back at home there will be more unspoken tension, loud putting away of books, and meeting clothes, and side stares that linger. All this until time passes, she has a couple glasses of merlot, or can't stand it anymore and says some personal jab needing discussion and reassurance that I love her and I'm not avoiding meetings to "hurt" her.
Trying to be the adult in a situation where one of the mates is still under the claws of a "cult" makes family life "difficult".
 +12 / -0
Witness 007
Witness 007 3 days ago
Sister Franz was wearing the SAME dress!!!!
 +3 / -0
elbib
elbib 3 days ago

This has been my experience too. I just ignored it.
When you know each one has his/her preferred tendencies, you can leave it as their (not your) problem, and you always enjoy a space around you.
 +1 / -0
Heaven
Heaven 3 days ago

Hey zeb, you could ask her if something is wrong.
I remember being at my Dad's place about 6 years ago and he was unenthusiastically getting ready to go to the meeting. He looked like he actually didn't want to go. I asked him "Do the meetings make you feel good, bring you joy?" He said somewhat dejectedly "Sometimes."
I said to him "If they don't bring you joy then don't go."
He did eventually go.
Later that same year he told me "I have no idea what they are talking about anymore." I just nodded my head. Inside I was like "Yes!" I knew it was the beginning of the end for him as a JW.
Unfortunately, this was in part due to his dementia but also the rapid and nonsensical changes that were going on.
We all know they browbeat the flock. And they also bad mouth anyone who isn't a JW, including UBMs/UBF (Unbelieving Mates/Unbelieving Family). It has to wear on someone after a while.

 +7 / -0
sowhatnow
sowhatnow 3 days ago

oppostate, that used to be me, I apologize for her.
for me it was because I hated going alone, sitting alone, being in the car alone, having to put on a fake smile,feeling inferior because weren't the 'model family . [ not that i cared deep inside]

then, having to 'answer' to the few random passer bys that ask, 'oh where is hubby , not feeling well?'
then I had to lie and make up excuses,
[ which after a while became complaints because it was usually overtime that kept him away.]
put up with my mothers foolish comments about it all.
[ the gossip queen of the service group who pretty much ruined our reputations ]

all the while wishing I didn't have to keep up the act of being so spiritual, while wanting to know why people didnt practice what they preached because it seemed like I was the only one who gave a crap about people.

then slowly dying as a person inside watching my kids have no friends, being judged, and my marriage being split in two directions .

shes miserable, because she feels guilty for thinking what she does. its eating her alive inside, and shes afraid to become 'inactive'. and not fit the mold. fed the lie that god will not like her, if shes not in attendance or has one self centered thought.

shes mad, that her life isnt like those fake made up experiences she hears at conventions, or reads about in the year book.

shes not happy, other wise shed come home and say, so n so invited us to dinner, or to a cook out, or so n so got that great job, bla bla bla, and shed ignore you.
isnt the big bible logic that you can 'win' your mate without a word based on your actions? her actions show that you aren't missing a thing, lol why go if your going to be made to feel like crap.

idk, if you make a choice, you either loose family member's, or loose your identity.
but gee, she yearns to be woke up. poor dear.

 +9 / -0
ToesUp
ToesUp 3 days ago

"shes mad, that her life isnt like those fake made up experiences she hears at conventions, or reads about in the year book."
sowhatnow, you are spot on on this one. Her life is not matching up to what it SHOULD be. She is not happy. NOTHING is happening, no END in sight. I do believe some, for the very first time ever, are having to realize that they will die. It's a tough pill to swallow.
 +7 / -0
LoveUniHateExams
LoveUniHateExams 3 days ago

often she comes home throws her bag down and stomps around the house - something said during the public talk or WT study might have upset your wife. Or maybe it was a comment said by a brother or sister. Or maybe your dear wife has an issue with WT doctrine or policies.
You should ask your wife what's wrong.
There are times it thoroughly gets me down - this is understandable, but if any of the above speculations are near the truth, it might be reason for you to feel a bit more upbeat.
All the best Zeb. Please let us know how it goes.
LUHE
 +1 / -0

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Oh happy people
by zeb 3 days ago 25 Replies latest 2 days ago   watchtower beliefs
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DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 2 days ago

My wife went to the one day ASS-embly and said that she had to leave immediately after. No going out with friends, just crying all the way home. She said she didn't really know why she was crying.
Once she got home, made a cocktail and spent some time with the pets she was much better.
JW conventions = mandatory, mind-numbing, repetetive, soul-sucking boredom. They are an extra long meeting. The cult has nothing but empty promises to offer, along with guilt trips.
My wife is beginning to notice that everyone is dying. No "new world" has magically appeared. I have to believe that she's feeling the TTATT in her soul, even if she's trying to ignore it.
DD
 +12 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 2 days ago

Simply calmly and mildly ask, "is something wrong?, because you seem very tense every time you come back from the meetings"
Then don't engage in any arguments if she tries to blame it on you. Just repeat agin "you seem very tense and unhappy before and after every meeting"
Do that while remaining relaxed and calm...she will note the difference....
 +5 / -0
Iown Mylife
Iown Mylife 2 days ago

All of the above, plus my thought is maybe she wants but doesn't get recognition and attagirls for being so spiritual - giving all this effort and time to prepare for and attend meetings. Her sacrifices of leaving home for God all the time. Plus being mad about having to be humble in the congregation, never being good enough, etc. But it's not right to blame WT and God, so come home and take it out on her loved ones who won't reject her for acting like that.
Might not take a whole lot for her to wake up, but takes time. I hope the right circumstances gather for her to see the reality.
Marina
 +2 / -0
LostGeneration
LostGeneration 2 days ago

Is it a passive aggressive way to get back at you for not going?
I saw that sort of nonsense and felt the same way as you with my ex. It sounds like a way of sucking you down to her level, I fell for that for a while. Eventually I made the decision that I would be happy on my own, no matter how she felt. It short circuited the cycle when I simply went and did my own thing and was happy about it no matter her childish and petty mood swings surrounding the cult.
 +8 / -0
kairos
kairos 2 days ago
Looking back, now I know why after getting home from the meetings I would begin heavy drinking.
 +8 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 2 days ago


What is it with meetings?. So often she comes home throws her bag down and stomps around the house.
The meetings Definitely aren`t making her happy..
.
..............................................................Put Me Down..
..............................................You Don`t Have To Go Any More..
Image result for angry wife
 +2 / -0
FayeDunaway
FayeDunaway 2 days ago

Sowhatnow was the closest. I know this from personal experience. She is embarrassed that you don't go with her, and she feels lonely. She sees 'everyone else' supported by their husbands, sees complete families all together, but she sits there alone. She thinks about it on the lonely drive home and gets mad at you for doing this to her.
I would suggest planning something to do together after the meeting, maybe take her out to lunch Sundays when she gets home, like you probably used to do when you were both going.
 +10 / -0
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 2 days ago

I used to come home from meetings in a pissy funk aswell, I mean seriously, the meetings are awful, there is something wrong if you don't come home pissed off about something that was said or read.
The good news is it just meant I was waking up and didn't know it yet.
 +4 / -0
nonjwspouse
nonjwspouse 2 days ago
I like Fay's idea. Make plans for you two for after she gets home. Investigate interesting things and then ask her to go along with you. Don't get discouraged if she says no at first. You can talk about the interesting market you found, or restaurant, nice park to walk in, etc. and hopefully she will eventually begin to join you, and hopefully see a better side of life?

 +3 / -1
talesin
talesin 2 days ago

She's probably tired and discouraged. She knows 'something is not right', but has never considered anything BUT 'the truth'. She feels the same disorientation that many *here* feel, and doesn't know why she isn't happy. Coming home from the meetings is just horrible - she's bored and disillusioned, and comes home to what? Just another day in paradise. xx J
 +2 / -0

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Topic Summary
what is it with meetings?.
so often she comes home throws her bag down and stomps around the house.
there are times it thoroughly gets me down.. + supportive comment welcome.



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Chapter 2 of the Novel "New Boy"
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Oh happy people
by zeb 3 days ago 25 Replies latest 2 days ago   watchtower beliefs
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Billy the Ex-Bethelite 2 days ago


So often she comes home throws her bag down and stomps around the house. There are times it thoroughly gets me down.
There was probably counsel from the platform about how christian wives should have a "quiet and mild spirit" in order to "win their husbands over without a word."

 +1 / -0
goingthruthemotions
goingthruthemotions 2 days ago

i am in the same boat....i dread when she goes to the meetings. she always comes home pissed....regardless if we go or not.
this always causes a fight. i hate this cult.
Happiest people, huh.....i wonder what the unhappiest people look like?
 +4 / -0
sowhatnow
sowhatnow 2 days ago

thing is, when we sat at meeting seeing who is there and in our minds we like to think everyone else is doing ok, or better,
and guess what, everyone goes home and feels the same way, lol

I know this.
one day about a year before I left,I was in the ladies rest room, and there was a 'sister' in there who was sitting in one of the chairs they have for feeding babies, I asked her how she was, she looked tired, she said , 'i have no idea how much more I can take of this, Im so tired, I have the kids to get in their service hours, [both teens] help my son with his talk, and were pioneering this month, and we have home projects going on , and now we have to .....'
well,you get the message, she was burned out . I wish I could somehow tell her what I know now. her family was so nice, and they were just jumping through hoops. they were what we would say is the model JW family.
always at meetings, doing it all, hubby a mini servant, son giving excellent talks, daughter and mom pioneering, and mom home schooling. oh and on assembly parts, [you know, the ones we like to hate, lol.]

we imagine how it is 'supposed' to be in the JW world, which is impossible, and then we later find out that everyone has worse problems than we thought.

I stopped caring what people thought of me fifteen years ago... I did and said what I felt was right.

[gee maybe thats why no one harassed me about not going in service or missing a few meetings,lol]

 +1 / -0
zeb
zeb 2 days ago

Thankyou all for yourkind input.
I haven't set foot in the kh in some years and my wife gets picked up and brought home. Outside they are laughter, once back and in the door the switch gets flicked.
You are all quite and indeed entirely right. Thankyou again for your input and ideas.
Loves ya all
 +4 / -0
Alive!
Alive! 2 days ago

As a wife, I keenly felt the angst of 'not being a model family' if I went to the meetings on my own -I'd feel terrible sadness and...resentment... my husband was not appointed, no responsibilities assigned ......and in JW world it means you are spiritually 'shite'...
The sad thing is that my husband was a generous and humble type, before he let the JW 'male' culture rub off on him - the association of the cynical elders and hard nosed bullies messed with his character development - I'm sure of that.
We are having real quality discussions these days, we are unravelling the mess and finding peace. Reclaiming our identities, getting grounded in the good parts of our characters.
The culture of JW land is geared towards unnatural tension, blame and frustration.
Hugs to all spouses that are suffering and hurting from the crazy stuff.
 +3 / -0
stillin
stillin 2 days ago

Interesting. More often than not, if I say that I am not going to a meeting, my wife doesn't go either. What I really wanted was some down time or alone time or maybe smoke a cigar. Maybe she wants to guilt me for making her miss the meeting. Or maybe she really knows that it's mostly a waste of time anyhow. Or maybe she wants to keep me from enjoying the time not at a meeting..
yesterday was one of those days. We got some yard work done, sat on a bench and had a nice conversation, watched the world go by.
We should do that more. Our marriage isn't very good either.
 

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Topic Summary
what is it with meetings?.
so often she comes home throws her bag down and stomps around the house.
there are times it thoroughly gets me down.. + supportive comment welcome.



Related Topics
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Chapter 2 of the Novel "New Boy"
by new boy a month ago
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Manufacturing Consent
by StarTrekAngel 3 months ago
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by Cold Steel 2 months ago
TheOutSpoken1
Online Article About JW life from Ex-JW
by TheOutSpoken1 a month ago
silent
Didn't go to memorial this year
by silent a month ago



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A lucid dream last night...exposes JW thinking
by HowTheBibleWasCreated 2 days ago 4 Replies latest 2 days ago   watchtower beliefs
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HowTheBibleWasCreated
HowTheBibleWasCreated 2 days ago

For anyone who understands lucid dreaming this story will come to no surprise. If not lucid dreaming is defined as a dream where you know you are dreaming and have control of the dream.
Last night during a dream I was at my uncles place for some reason. My uncle is an elder, raised ia JW, pioneered in Quebec in the 60s and is often giving talks at conventions. Hes a good man. Just a JW elder. Being he is around 70 I would never expose or even try to expose the lies of God and the Bible to him.
However during this dream I became aware that it was a dream. (I lucid dream often)
I ran out to my uncle who was in front of shelves full of bibles. I screamed at him:
iTS A CULT! iTS A CULT! ALL RELIGIONS ARE CULTS!
He laughed at me as if I was joking.
Since this was a dream I was in control of I grew my arm longer and grabbed a bible off the shelf behind him. (An 1984 soft cover NWT)
THIS IS ALL FABRICATED ANCIENT PROPAGANDA! JEHOVAH IS NOT REAL!
Now he got mad at me and said Satan had me under control. Jehovah was real and so was the bible.
I raised the bible to the air and said:
MY JEHOVAH CAUSE THIS BIBLE TO VANISH.
Nothing happened. I nodded. My uncle however gave the most JW answer he could:
"Jehovah is punishing you for your lack of faith. Thats why a miracle didnt happen for you."
To which I (being in control of the dream) made the bible vanish.
Sadly I woke up at this point. Laughing.
As I reflect my uncle response was typical JW. Its a make believe answer to justify your belief in nothing.
As long as they have this mentality it is almost impossible to wake them
 +1 / -1
Xanthippe
Xanthippe 2 days ago
if you were really lucid you'd have realised it wasn't your uncle and tried to do something much more interesting. Try flying, walking on water or zooming to the top of the Himalayas. Or try and see numbers 😉
 +1 / -0
HowTheBibleWasCreated
HowTheBibleWasCreated 2 days ago
Xanthippe: Several year ago i would have. However I find excitement wake me up quickly. Today I prefer philosophic discussion,or practice for real life with people easier and enoyable.
 +1 / -0
fukitol
fukitol 2 days ago

Sorry but I don't believe in lucid dreaming. You cant be in control of a dream or it is not a real dream. Sounds like new age mumbo jumbo tbh.
 +0 / -1
WhatshallIcallmyself
WhatshallIcallmyself 2 days ago

fukitol - Whether it is correctly dreaming or not I can vouch for the fact that this phenomenon does exist. I normally experience it as I am falling asleep so I get all the images and whatnot you get with the usual dream state but I am still self aware and know I am "dreaming". The trick is not "waking" yourself up. I usually like to fly (although I lose control and crash if I go too high... - waking up sharpish) or walk through walls and whatnot.
One example I remember vividly from my childhood was walking around my then family home but despite wanting to could not find anyone; there was nothing to be seen outside the windows save a bright light. I started to feel extremely alone and as a result "woke" up. It still gives me the chills now when I think back on it.


 +1 / -0

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Armageddon comes and you have 5 minutes with Jesus
by pleaseresearch 2 days ago 24 Replies latest an hour ago   watchtower beliefs
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pleaseresearch
pleaseresearch 2 days ago
So the big A comes, your third in line to be judged by Jesus. He wants to know why you left the organisation. He also wants to know why JWs remained with the org. But what would your response be come judgment day. If you believe in that :smile:
 
zeb
zeb 2 days ago

Why? the org was opposed to education that had with all its troubles lifted humankind by degrees out of the muck of superstition and ignorance and the borg pretended that brutes and paedophiles dont exist.
The "apostate" stood at the pearly gates,
his face was worn and old.
He meekly asked the man of fate admission to the fold.
"What have you done?" he kindly said "to gain admission here.?"
"I was a 'witness; deceived and lied too for many, oh many a year."
With a flash of light the gates swung wide at Jesus touched the bell,
"Come in" he said, "and rest a while" You've seen enough of hell." ..anon.
 +14 / -0
sir82
sir82 2 days ago
"Seriously? Out of all the organizations on earth, you picked this one? What's wrong with you?"

 +7 / -0
mommyfirstandalways
mommyfirstandalways 2 days ago
Zeb that poem made me teary eyed. Thank u!!
 +3 / -0
punkofnice
punkofnice 2 days ago
If you think you're so bl**dy perfect, you should know. Anyway, you don't exist....get out of my head.
 +2 / -0
LoveUniHateExams
LoveUniHateExams 2 days ago

I'd ask him to turn water into wine again.
"Go on, do that magic trick ..."
 +3 / -0
notsurewheretogo
notsurewheretogo a day ago

JC...when you chose the WT back in 1919 to represent your father just what criteria did you use to choose them?
 +2 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein a day ago

My answer .... because I could see that they weren't being obedient to your word and instructions to preach your Kingdom to come.
Jesus in reply .... yes your right you stayed loyal to me and not those corrupt lying men who exploited my words to sell and self empower themselves as false prophets. because of this I grant you eternal life in Paradise.

 +3 / -0
Darkknight757
Darkknight757 a day ago

I would show him my big white ass and tell him to kiss it.
Then Id tell him to send me to hell so I can screw with TPTM3 for eternity.
 +2 / -0
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG a day ago

"Why did you create vampire bats if blood is so sacred? Also, do you hate spandex on girls, cause I dont."
DD
 +3 / -0

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Armageddon comes and you have 5 minutes with Jesus
by pleaseresearch 2 days ago 24 Replies latest an hour ago   watchtower beliefs
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NewYork44M
NewYork44M a day ago

I would ask him to explain the overlapping generation.
I would also ask why a religion is the "one true religion" when I was lied to my whole life. How can lies and truth be part of the same construct?
 +2 / -0
Village Idiot
Village Idiot a day ago
I would tell him that I have made many sins but his Father has made many more.
 +1 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon a day ago

Satan made me do it, and by the way who was the first man on earth?
You see Jesus things were very confusing here, Satan offered a life free of anxiety
your organization on the other hand, screw your fellow man and so many damn rules.
There's a thin line between being optimistic and delusion , so you see Jesus I was confused.
I didn't no if I should crap or go blind in your organization.
OK, send me to hell..
 
steve2
steve2 a day ago

I would ask him if he is a top or bottom and, depending on his answer, work the exchange into a date night.
 +4 / -1
LisaRose
LisaRose a day ago

I would say that they lied about their history, predicted the end of the world several times in error and covered up child sex abuse, therefore I could not in good conscience be a part of it.
 +2 / -0
pleaseresearch
pleaseresearch 17 hours ago

That is the same thing I would say LisaRose. What former brothers and sisters have discovered and made public about their past and failed well, everything. End of the world too many times, the flip flops, the disgusting covering up of Child sex abuse, how can anyone with a conscience be any part of it.
The scripture in Deuteronomy at chapter 18 and verse 22.
If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.



How on earth can we have anything to do with the organisation when this is contained in the bible. That's why for me if there is going to be Armageddon I really don't fear it, not one bit.
 
 +1 / -0
elbib
elbib 16 hours ago
When they began to "beat the fellow slaves" I know that you will come and cut them in to pieces. Hence I left.
 +1 / -0
Ucantnome
Ucantnome 16 hours ago
he already knows
 +1 / -0
Diogenesister
Diogenesister 14 hours ago

Love the poem Zeb!
I would say Jesus, I love you and I'm so relieved you exist and that there is a heaven for those who died too young, those who died in war or violence, those who died of horrific diseases, those who were raped or abused as kids and committed suicide because of the agony of living....I don't care what you do with me ...PS what happens to the other hominid species? Or the poor animals??
 
Bonsai
Bonsai 14 hours ago
I'd tell him I followed the evidence no matter where it led me. But if he was real, I'd humbly ask for assistant to keep learning what I have always strived to learn - the truth.

 

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Topic Summary
so the big a comes, your third in line to be judged by jesus.
he wants to know why you left the organisation.
he also wants to know why jws remained with the org.



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Armageddon comes and you have 5 minutes with Jesus
by pleaseresearch 2 days ago 24 Replies latest an hour ago   watchtower beliefs
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DJS
DJS 14 hours ago

Steve2,
You are turning into a wise-ass like me. I like it!!!
 
WTWizard
WTWizard 11 hours ago
I would want to know why I am being judged for trying to live a life that would have improved my own soul. Why is it a sin to attempt to work on that?

 +1 / -0
millie210
millie210 11 hours ago

I would ask him why part of "the plan" was to be so hard on humans.
 +1 / -0
Juan Viejo2
Juan Viejo2 3 hours ago

I would ask him why, if the Bible was really his words and inspired by him, that He decided to make it indecipherable?
Just before He zapped me for eternity, I'd ask why He didn't just have the Bible written like a really well-prepared junior high text book - so even a 12 year old could understand it. Why did He write three different versions of the Ten Commandments when He could have just used the two Commandments that were attributed to Jesus:
Love everyone as if they were you siblings (because they are!) and do what is right before God.
Why did He present himself as a master engineer with multiple personalities?
Why didn't he just let Adam and Eve get on with their lives and REMOVE evil and temptations from their lives? Why did he create so many different and wonderful animals, sea creatures, and plant life - and then let 90% of them go extinct before humans ever appeared in the Garden? Duh! What the hell?
Jehovah has some 'splainin' to do...
JV
 +1 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy an hour ago
Since Jesus was perfect yet didn't right anything down then he really can't hold anyone responsible for all the mistakes later made by anyone.
 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
so the big a comes, your third in line to be judged by jesus.
he wants to know why you left the organisation.
he also wants to know why jws remained with the org.



Related Topics
blondie
Blondie's Highlights from 11-15-2015 WT (FAITH)
by blondie 5 months ago
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How credible are NWT critiques? A look at Allin's evaluation of Jn 8:58.
by Wonderment 3 months ago
Wonderment
How credible are NWT's critiques?: Allin and John 8:58. (2)
by Wonderment 3 months ago
Saved_JW
Discussion with a Pioneer: CONCLUSION
by Saved_JW 6 months ago
Petraglyph
Watchtower Web Domains
by Petraglyph 4 months ago



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What was there before the Big Bang?
by Brokeback Watchtower 2 days ago 20 Replies latest 21 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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Brokeback Watchtower
Brokeback Watchtower 2 days ago










 
EndofMysteries
EndofMysteries 2 days ago

Didn't look at the videos, but besides absolute nothing then everything came into existence, 2 other ideas I've heard are.
1. The universe is always contracting and expanding, right now expanding but soon more and more mass, planets, galaxies, etc, will join. Each time creating a stronger gravity pull, and eventually everything compresses into one lump and explodes making another big bang with a never ending cycle.
2. Our universe is the result of a 4th dimensional star exploding and turning into a black hole. (If that's the case then just imagine one star in our entire universe spawning another universe. Means at least one other universe outside of ours.
 
prologos
prologos 2 days ago

well, listened to it, and it did not say anything about that "before" question, but it reiterated the findings, that no matter how much the universe expands, there is always more energy in the newly acquired space, implying and confirming that there is no such thing as nothingness, but that even the best vacuum is filled with energy, hence there was energy before there was space and matter. It said nothing how the laws emerged, and having multiverses just kicks the ball further down the road.
another note about the flat , "dark matter"-caused even velocity curves in galaxies. Have they thought about the fact that there is no gravity in the center of galaxies, the earth, stars? with no gravity in the center, and max in the periphery, why would it be surprising that in a matter-filled entity, like a galaxy, the outer velocity would be high? so, to quote the video" they invented dark matter ". nothing said about the nothing before the beginning, about time itself. but a reminder if you look at the real thing, much more impressive than the video visual, kerosine - burning big bang, how small we are. thank you is all i can say.
 +0 / -1
Simon
Simon 2 days ago

There was nothing before the big-bang. Not nothing as in "the vacuum of space" but really nothing, not even the space for the vacuum to be empty in.
Without gravity, there is no time, so no "before" because time also started when matter existed.
 +1 / -0
sir82
sir82 2 days ago

There was no "before". Time is an element of the universe, so it began at the big bang too.
The question is like asking "what is south of the south pole?". The question makes no sense because it is attempting to describe an impossible situation.

 
The Rebel
The Rebel 2 days ago

Before the " Big Bang" we had friends, Will and Grace, Frazier, and the Simpsons But in my opinion " The Big Bang Theory" was unique, it made being a nerd cool. and suddenly kids every where didn't have to be Rebels, in leather jackets to be hip with the girls.
Thanks to the big bank theory, a guy was no longer judged by the car he drove, nor the cigarettes he smoked, instead the " chicks" we're more interested if the guy could answer Einsteins special theory of relativity, with special reference to the constant 3x/c.
The Rebel, who actually was in all truth, and always will be more of a nerd than a rebel.
 +3 / -0
prologos
prologos 2 days ago
Simon: "--Without gravity, there is no time, why do you say that? The way I see it, in the equations of relativity, the more gravity there is , the less time you have, or to be more precise the slower you move through time, as seen by others. and regarding the supra-nothingness you seem to be mentioning , very well put by the way, it is just this that the video seem to refer to, when there is mention of the nothing being full of energy . If they are also contemplating the existence of other universes, like of course Penrose did, the idea of an absolute emptiness before, and still "outside" our realm becomes a possibility.
 +1 / -1
prologos
prologos 2 days ago

sir 82: "There was no "before". Time is an element of the universe, so it began at the big bang too. Time might not be as short lived as the universe. it is just that we got entangled with the elusive 4st dimension when we started to move through time in our beginning. While everything is linked to time in our expanding, moving world, why would that preclude that the imperceptible 4st dimension did predate the universe? (imperceptible in the sense that all we can do is measure our movement through it, or the movement of others.)
It is kind of nice to think that time will be still there, when we have stopped moving through it. ?
 +0 / -1
The Rebel
The Rebel 2 days ago

Being serious, having read the thread, I think trying to answer or understand this question is like to believe in our words, or somebody else's words. Yet think about it, there are no words, no living people, no self, or anything belonging to self, and nothing beyond self. And that is what was before the Big Bang, and what we have now. Which is the present moment, existing, and all thoughts and words are and will become illusion.
The Rebel.
 
sowhatnow
sowhatnow 2 days ago

simon, I cant accept that nothing is the nothing that we interpret it to be.
the only nothing we can envision in our head is a black or white space void of any activity.
you cant have something come from nothing. there is always something. even if its microscopic somethings.
and they have to come 'from' someplace. thats why dwelling on this can make us crazy, lol.
we are only humans speculating and learning and discovering amazing things every day. always fun, but frustrating, because were so curious.
its going to be a never ending search for where things came from because humans will never live long enough to find everything out in one lifetime. plus, being able to safely record information in order for the new generations of researchers to use however, is going to be a challenge.
all it takes is a major fire earthquake flood volcano energy crisis ect, and all our 'saved' research information is gone. were still discovering amazing things about our own planet.
our ' big bang' is one of many. so, if were here there are others, and some more advanced or more primitive. maybe its like watching the show sliders,lol , there are other earths and other humans or creatures, in different stages of evolution. did we not find a planet similar to earth? well thats evolving too,so maybe someday we will be able to go there if its not going away from us too fast. but since we observe galaxies moving away from each other as if a bomb going off, objects being forced outward, we might never have the answers, because there will come a day where our galaxy will collide again, and earth might be destryed or damaged greatly ; or earth and other planets will drift farther away [and become a cold dead planet] into the great void from which a big bang may have happened to begin with. were powerless to do a thing about it. but either way, by the time that happens, Id hope humans have enough knowlege and advancements that they can see thier possible demise and vacate and have another place to go. matters not though, we wont live long enough to know.
 

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What was there before the Big Bang?
by Brokeback Watchtower 2 days ago 20 Replies latest a day ago   watchtower beliefs
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LoveUniHateExams
LoveUniHateExams 2 days ago

What was there before the Big Bang?
Quiet.
 +2 / -0
Island Man
Island Man a day ago
There may have been a big crunch. Maybe the universe is eternal and oscillates between banging and crunching. Bang --> Expand --> Stop --> Recede --> Crunch --> (Repeat)

 
OUTLAW
OUTLAW a day ago


What was there before the Big Bang?
....This One Lonesome Planet..
.............Floating in Space..

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
 +1 / -0
Coded Logic
Coded Logic a day ago

you cant have something come from nothing.
-SWN
How do you know this? Have you ever observed a lack of space time and energy? How would you know how it behaves?
I'd recommend you do a little reading on entropy. It doesn't just imply that we can get something from nothing. Rather, it means that "nothing" is inherently unstable and will always produce something.
Our intuitions are useless here. We have no prior experience in the formation of universes that we can draw upon.  "That doesn't sound right to me" is not a valid objection.
 +1 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein a day ago



 
Heaven
Heaven a day ago



What was there before the Big Bang?
Quiet.
In Space, no one can hear you scream.

 +2 / -0
watson
watson a day ago




 
prologos
prologos a day ago
CL: "--it means that "nothing" is inherently unstable and will always produce something. and when you have instability it implies change, acceleration, and that means means a priori you have time, even times squared to move through.
 
sowhatnow
sowhatnow a day ago

coded, I never claimed to know.
[ i wish people would stop assuming and putting words in my mouth]
you said
'Rather, it means that "nothing" is inherently unstable and will always produce something'.
There you go. that scentence makes much more sense.
then you said
Our intuitions are useless here. We have no prior experience in the formation of universes that we can draw upon.

"That doesn't sound right to me" is not a valid objection.
But thats the same thing.lol
we have not enough exp. which is why it doesnt sound just right....yet
[ ill read about entropy]
 
Fisherman
Fisherman a day ago
What exploded? something or nothing? If something then what is its substance and how long did it exist before the the big bang and what caused it to explode. If nothing then how in the world can nothing explode into something and what caused nothing to become something.

 +1 / -0

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What was there before the Big Bang?
by Brokeback Watchtower 2 days ago 20 Replies latest a day ago   watchtower beliefs
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prologos
prologos a day ago

F; "--If nothing then how in the world can nothing explode into something and what caused nothing to become something.
The current thought is, that there never was a nothing as we define it; the nothing prior and "outside" is seething with virtual energy, and the theory is that positive and negative, or matter and antimatter pop into existence balanced , zero energy when combined, but 2 if separated. A slight imbalance resulted in the structure we have today. but to do all this there had to be time to do it in, and that time could well be eternal. Not many like that idea, because it opens the possibility, that an unfathomable  creator might be behind it all, and with all that energy and time on hand, do really great works.


 

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Break a promise okay with watchtower?
by punkofnice 2 days ago 6 Replies latest 8 hours ago   watchtower bible
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punkofnice
punkofnice 2 days ago


15:4. Unless we come to the realization that we have made an unscriptural promise, we should do all we can to fulfill our word, even if it is very difficult to do so.
◦w06 5/15 p. 17-p. 20 par. 16
◦Highlights From Book One of Psalms






What is an 'unscriptural promise'?
What do you think of this?
 +1 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 2 days ago

Keep loyal to us no matter if the information or teachings we present steps out of rational truthful adherence to the bible or any outside relative information.

In other words being loyal to us is being loyal to Jehovah because we present the most truthful interpretation of his word, no matter what.

We think we have been coerced by deceptive alluring false teachings but your not privileged enough to know how or why.

 
punkofnice
punkofnice a day ago

this is the propaganda in the May 'workbook' for the r&f.
It struck me that a 'promise' is expendable if it doesn't further the interests of the corporation. appeal to authority, using the bible in this way? I can't see the scripture actually says about an unscriptural promise.....this is the corporation saying this.
 
EyesOpenHeartBroken
EyesOpenHeartBroken a day ago
Nice catch, punk.
 +1 / -0
Dunedain
Dunedain a day ago

Its just MORE of the same, mind control garbage that the cult uses. In other words, you do NOT have to be a person of your word, if you can find some "scriptural loophole", you can get out of your promises. You can find almost ANY quirky, outdated, archaic, biblical story, somewhere in the bible, that you could "use" to get you out of a promise.
Well what ever happened to, "let your YES mean YES, and your NO mean NO". See, I just used a scripture to further MY point. This is what these JW's do, and it comes right from the top. They use MAN made interpretations to "swing" their horrible, shady actions, into the light of justification to do whatever they want.
They all have their "pet" scriptures that they use to justify that they just screwed you over, SCUMBAGS. This is what the GB does EVERDAY, and to EVERY member of the CULT. They use their interpretations, of the scriptures THEY only choose, to control what THEY want.

 
punkofnice
punkofnice 18 hours ago

Thanks, for you comments finkle, EOHB. Dunedain.
On the surface of it the watchtower comment seems innocuous and 'righteous'. However, imagine what the corporation can do with such a quote.
I think it's as significant as 'theocratic warfare(tm)'.
 +1 / -0
Lieu
Lieu 8 hours ago

An unscriptual promise is telling people if they hang out with only you following your crazy unscriptual rules, they can make it into a paradise earth.
Promise
 

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No Birthday cards
by Xanthippe 2 days ago 0 Replies latest 2 days ago   watchtower beliefs
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Xanthippe
Xanthippe 2 days ago

So no cards again yesterday from my daughter's uncle and aunts, my JW siblings, for her 21st Birthday. 😀 No I didn't expect any but I just wonder if they even know she's twenty-one now. Do her cousins, one of whom has a baby of his own now? She couldn't come home from uni because It's a long way and she has finals in two weeks so she celebrated with her friends and when she comes home in May we are going on holiday together.
She'll be getting her head back in her books today. I missed her yesterday but I'm okay with it, I'm glad she wants to get a good degree, she's worked hard enough. Anyway there's presents here from my friend and my cousin waiting for her and she took away gifts from her grandparents last time she was home. That's it really, thanks for listening. I don't feel sorry for myself by the way, I'm just sharing. I'm glad she can celebrate her Birthday AND go to university!
 +5 / -0

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A Watchtower double standard: Rejection and the silent treatment.
by ScenicViewer 2 days ago 16 Replies latest 12 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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ScenicViewer
ScenicViewer 2 days ago

A recent Watchtower study article shows how bad it is to be rejected over religious beliefs when Olga revealed that her husband was not speaking to her because she is a Jehovah's Witness.

9 In South America, Olga proved loyal to God by showing respect for her husband even under trying circumstances. For years, he expressed annoyance at her for being one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. He abused her emotionally, insulted her, refused to speak to her, and threatened to take the children and leave her. But Olga did not return evil for evil. - WT Study, February 2016, page 23
While this is meant to show how unfairly JWs are treated by others because of their beliefs, notice how Olga did exactly the same thing to others, rejecting them, including her husband, over nothing more than a religious view.

In the same paragraph of the same study article quoted above it says...


When possible, she accompanied him to gatherings of his family or colleagues. For example, when he wanted to go to another city for the funeral of his father, she got the children ready and prepared everything needed for the trip. She waited for her husband at the church door until the ceremony ended.
Wasn't Olga, who was being shunned by her non-Witness husband over religious beliefs, doing the same thing to everyone that didn't agree with her? The paragraph says "She waited for her husband at the church door until the ceremony ended."
What? She wouldn't go inside to be with her husband at his father's funeral? Why not? The article doesn't mention it, but no doubt it was over religious beliefs, she did not agree with what would be said in the church so she waited by the door.

The article claims that "Olga did not return evil for evil," but apparently she did. She gave her husband the same rejection that he was giving her, and both were doing it over nothing more than religious beliefs.
In addition, when a person leaves the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses he/she is completely cut off and rejected, again the same treatment that Olga received from her husband.
If Jehovah's Witnesses can't see the double standards promoted by the Watchtower organization it's because they have willfully chosen not to see it. Such obvious contradictions as this leave me shaking my head, wondering how long people can keep their eyes closed.
 +13 / -0
Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Billy the Ex-Bethelite 2 days ago


The paragraph says "She waited for her husband at the church door until the ceremony ended."
When it comes to being passive-aggressive, JWs top everyone. She could have just stayed home. Instead, she waited outside the church to make a public display of her contempt for his religion and police who he may talk to and where he may go before and afterward.

 +10 / -0
sowhatnow
sowhatnow 2 days ago
wow,thats screwed up thinking. i mean in the article, lol,

 +2 / -0
ignored_one
ignored_one 2 days ago


When it comes to being passive-aggressive, JWs top everyone. She could have just stayed home. Instead, she waited outside the church to make a public display of her contempt for his religion and police who he may talk to and where he may go before and afterward.
Surprised she didn't set out her magazine cart as well. Gotta get those hours in.
 +4 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 2 days ago

Wow!

Such arrogance they have by not seeing the irony in those statements!
Classic hypocrisy!
But, I guess when you think you are gods special channel, then such logic doesnt apply.
 +3 / -0
ToesUp
ToesUp 2 days ago
I think the most frustrating thing is, the JW's just can't see what is right in front of them. They are so brainwashed!
 +2 / -0
LongHairGal
LongHairGal a day ago

SCENICVIEWER:

She thought she was "loyal to God" because she did not go into the church!
She imagined she was taking a "stand" because she stood outside. Did she imagine all the non-Witnesses around were analyzing what she did?? The "world" are not interested in what Jehovah's Witnesses do or not do.
The decent thing would have been for her to be inside with all the other mourners.
Witnesses believe they can't set foot inside another religion's house of worship. I remember many years ago when in the religion, I was telling about my trip to Italy and mentioned that I had to use a bathroom when touring one of the cathedrals, etc...Well, a pious old Witness woman (one of the strident ones from the old days..) TELLS me in front of everybody that I should not have been in there because what if Armageddon came at that moment. I said I considered it like being in a museum....Of course, this gave the judgmental idiots in the hall yet another reason to give ME the silent treatment, LOL.
The moral of the story is this is why the woman in the story didn't go into the church and (hint hint) the message the religion wants to get across to the "faithful" readers of its literature.

 +2 / -0
ScenicViewer
ScenicViewer a day ago


She thought she was "loyal to God" because she did not go into the church!
She imagined she was taking a "stand" because she stood outside.
Yes I got that, it was actually my point. When Jehovah's Witnesses are the target of a negative behavior, such as being rejected or not spoken to, they portray that behavior as bad, unjust, worldly, etc, but when they engage in the exact same behavior they see it as being sanctioned by God. They don't see the contradiction of it due to being mind controlled.
As Compound complex pointed out in another thread ...

"No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family." -- AWAKE!, July 2009, page 29.
Yet JWs make people choose between family and religious beliefs all the time, shunning the family member if he/she chooses not to accept the religious beliefs of JWs.
Complaining of being shunned and rejected is always a one way street with Jehovah's Witnesses.

The decent thing would have been for her to be inside with all the other mourners.
Absolutely! 

 +1 / -0
Diogenesister
Diogenesister a day ago

I thought witnesses believe that a building is just four walls and a roof ( hence the term kingdom " Hall") ....emphasis placed on what is in a worshipers HEART not the building they pray in....hence touring a Cathedral or going into a church to support a spouce should be no problem as you don't veiw the building as sacred at all.
God wouldn't give a monkeys if he had any sense.
 +1 / -0
freddo
freddo a day ago

Question from Readers WT 1970 March 15th.
May dedicated Christians attend church funerals ...
2 Kings 5 v 17 - 19
About when someone views how his duty as a servant taking his master into a house of false worship will compromise his worship to Jehovah but that Jehovah will forgive him ...
 

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A Watchtower double standard: Rejection and the silent treatment.
by ScenicViewer 2 days ago 16 Replies latest 13 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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steve2
steve2 a day ago

Why did the Watchtower article depict her as standing at the church door? How discreet is that?
If her jw.org-shaped conscience would not allow her to enter the church - even for her father-in-law's funeral service - why didn't she "stand" somewhere more discreet - or wait in a vehicle out of sight? This public "stand" for her faith is religiously narcissistic (Yes, JWs like to think it is all about them).
Talk about the article feeding the JW penchant for attention-seeking.
 +4 / -0
sowhatnow
sowhatnow 14 hours ago

cant find that article on the orgs site, feb study edition? however I was appalled at the line of four photos where the woman rats on her friend and turns her into the elders for looking at something on her tablet.
the article entitled, learn from loyal servants of god.
really really sick. i like how the photos on another page show the mom taking the boys in sevice while the father goes golfing.
showing respect? lol,
um, why is the father not taking the boys golfing? hes the head of the household.
 +1 / -0
ScenicViewer
ScenicViewer 14 hours ago


i like how the photos on another page show the mom taking the boys in sevice while the father goes golfing.
Yes, it's the Feb 2016 study edition, p23, par9.
The story of Olga is in paragraph 9, below the picture of the father going golfing.
Edit: I am referring to the Regular edition, not the Large Print edition.  I'm not sure if they match each other page for page, so it might make a difference.

 +1 / -0
ToesUp
ToesUp 13 hours ago

Paragraph 9:
"After many years, his attitude began to soften because of Olga’s patience and respect."
So standing outside of the church during your Father in laws funeral is respectful? Really? Who writes this sh*t?
It's so funny how their experiences all end with a happily ever after theme. Made up stories!

 +2 / -0
ToesUp
ToesUp 13 hours ago

Paragraph 11:
" Later, Alice told members of her family that she would not be celebrating Christmas with them. She explained the reasons, but their mild concern gradually turned into bitter anger. They felt that she was turning her back on her family. Says Alice: “My mother finally said that she disowned me. I was shocked and deeply hurt because I really loved my family. "
So Alice was deeply hurt by her mother disowning her for not celebrating Christmas with the family? She was deeply shocked and hurt? So JW's can do this to those who choose to leave but heaven forbid they do it to you!
The hypocrisy is through the roof!!!


 +2 / -0
ScenicViewer
ScenicViewer 13 hours ago


So standing outside of the church during your Father in laws funeral is respectful? Really? Who writes this sh*t?
It's so funny how their experiences all end with a happily ever after theme. Made up stories!
I wondered the same thing. In the caption next to the photo it says,

"One way to prove loyal to Jehovah is by showing respect for an unbelieving mate (see paragraph 9)"
(Paragraph 9 has the Olga story) 
Exactly how is refusing to sit with your husband at his father's funeral showing him respect?



 +2 / -0
punkofnice
punkofnice 13 hours ago

That's funny, my family broke up once I left the watchtower corporation. They claim all sorts of fluffy stuff for their public image..............but the reality, oooh, the reality is so different. the watchtower corporation is a heartless machine that will throw you under the bus if it suits them.
Olga proved loyal to God by showing respect for her husband even under trying circumstances.
I laugh up my sleeve!


 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
a recent watchtower study article shows how bad it is to be rejected over religious beliefs when olga revealed that her husband was not speaking to her because she is a jehovah's witness.. 9 in south america, olga proved loyal to god by showing respect for her husband even under trying circumstances.
for years, he expressed annoyance at her for being one of jehovah’s witnesses.
he abused her emotionally, insulted her, refused to speak to her, and threatened to take the children and leave her.



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Leaving The Cult is Exactly Like This...
by cofty 4 days ago 21 Replies latest 2 days ago   watchtower beliefs
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cofty
cofty 4 days ago




 +42 / -0
Zoos
Zoos 4 days ago

Awesome graphic. I'm stealing this to post on facebook.
 +3 / -0
cofty
cofty 4 days ago

Ha, help yourself - I stole it from Facebook.
What goes around comes around...
 +4 / -0
kairos
kairos 4 days ago
thank you
 +1 / -0
Dagney
Dagney 4 days ago

Indeed it is. Thank you cofty.
 
freemindfade
freemindfade 4 days ago

Just sent this same pic to some friends this morning. Its precise and simple. Love it
 
DJS
DJS 4 days ago
If a picture is worth a thousand words, this one is worth a million. Thanks Cofty.
 +4 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 4 days ago
Nice.
 +1 / -0
elbib
elbib 4 days ago

Can't be simpler and truer than this--thanks for this great art.
That little word “truth” will not allow people to look deeper, thus they do not realize that many perceptions are possible out of a "fact." Thus the little ego finds security in becoming the part of a big ego called cult.
 +2 / -0
FayeDunaway
FayeDunaway 4 days ago

It's just missing one thing...a ray of sunshine on him.
I love that everyone else is in the rain under their own umbrellas. They think it's raining SO bad, they've got to keep the umbrella open to keep out the worst of it. They don't realize the umbrella itself is causing the rain and darkness. Sometimes you've just got to say wait a minute and take an honest look around yourself and see that it's not what you thought it was. The moment of realization can be scary, thinking you are going to expose yourself to the storm. But then you realize...no, it's just free out here and it feels good. And hey, I can finally breathe!
 +6 / -0

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Leaving The Cult is Exactly Like This...
by cofty 4 days ago 21 Replies latest 2 days ago   watchtower beliefs
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Darkknight757
Darkknight757 4 days ago
I agree with Faye about the ray of sunshine but this well illustrates how it is leaving the Borg. Great pic!!😊
 +1 / -0
dubstepped
dubstepped 4 days ago
Haha, that's great. I used to tell my wife that I had a little black cloud that followed me around. Somehow I managed to lose it just like your illustration as I started leaving the cult behind.
 
Island Man
Island Man 4 days ago
So true, Cofty. JWs are always talking about how the system of things is draining them and how the truth is like a protection for them. But little do they know that it is actually the Watchtower system that is draining them and that life is so much more stress-free and enjoyable without the Watchtower indoctrination influencing their thoughts, emotions and life decisions and creating unnecessary stress.

 +5 / -0
Coded Logic
Coded Logic 4 days ago
We didn't leave religion because we lost our faith. Rather, we found our curiosity. And what a beautiful world it is that we've since discovered.
 +3 / -0
Open mind
Open mind 4 days ago
Thank you Cofty.

 
KateWild
KateWild 4 days ago

Hahah funny pic......but you know I never really felt like that....I loved being a JW.
Kate xx
 
Heaven
Heaven 4 days ago

That picture illustrates exactly what I experienced once I left home to go to College and then get my job.
At work, everything is "How can we fix this problem? Let's get to work on it."
When I'd go home to visit, it was always "Everything is so bad and getting worse. Only Jehovah's new system will fix all this." And my Mom's depression deepened, her individuality vanished, and she became chronically ill (which was totally preventable). She died 11 years later.
Perhaps these types of groups which draw, imprison, and retain certain personality types are here to be a warning to all others.



 +4 / -0
Vidiot
Vidiot 4 days ago

@ Island Man...
Sparrowdown put it real well not too long ago...
..."it's not a few bad apples in the barrel... it's the barrel turning the apples bad..."
 +4 / -0
TheFadingAlbatros
TheFadingAlbatros 3 days ago

This image shows the way JW.ORG is continuously implanting in the heart of his followers a morbid fear to deter them to leave their organization :



 +1 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 3 days ago
http://www.unique-design.net/library/image/cartoon/you_are_not_paid_to_think.jpg
 +1 / -0

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Leaving The Cult is Exactly Like This...
by cofty 4 days ago 21 Replies latest 2 days ago   watchtower beliefs
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MarkofCane
MarkofCane 2 days ago

Great visual of the ttatt. The society drill into your head, heart and soul that you need them to be content and happy. Its not until your forced to examine your whole existence, every word expressed to you as a child, everything you took for granted that you realize, the very thing that was your faith your stronghold, was really your prison. The ideology that you believed in, would of died for......... was all an illusion. The instrument (faith, bible) that protected you from all the evils of the world, that subjugated your mind with fear, obligation and guilt was all a self imposed determent to living the one life........ we are all given.
When you have this one epiphany your life changes forever and you stand apart from what was once, all you knew. You realize your delusion, feared and labeled an outcast.
You breathe in new life, the world is at your feet.............you are free!

 +1 / -0
TheFadingAlbatros
TheFadingAlbatros 2 days ago

Leaving this North American Cult you will be "libre comme le vent" (engl.: "unrestrained as the wind")



 +1 / -0

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