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About JW Survey

A message from the founder of JWsurvey.org…
It is my pleasure to give you a warm welcome to JWsurvey.org. This website has been launched to give voice to millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world who would not normally have the opportunity to say what they really think about the Watch Tower Society, or the teachings and practices of the Governing Body.
The Governing Body has yet to express any interest in hearing the views of ordinary witnesses. Their mantra is: “We talk, you listen!”

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, or a former Witness, you will be aware that the opinions of rank and file publishers (and even elders) are rarely sought by the Society. The small number of men making up the Governing Body have declared themselves the “faithful and discreet slave” of Matthew 24:45, thus claiming sole control over the organization’s teachings and policies. These men are most certainly NOT interested in the opinions of the “silent majority” of Witnesses under their authority. If they are, they have a strange way of showing it!
This website seeks to redress that balance by means of an annual survey that is conducted anonymously throughout the world. The first survey was taken in 2011, and immediately attracted the opinions of 1,118 voters before closing at the end of the year. The results were posted to the Governing Body for their attention and review but, predictably, they never replied.
The following year, 2012, the survey received votes from 1,488 current and former Witnesses, most of whom expressed their concern at various Watchtower teachings. The remarkable events of that year (the Candace Conti case and the “new light” about the faithful slave) certainly seemed to get people talking. Subsequent surveys promise to attract even more attention as our website steadily grows in popularity.
A website for all
This site has been created and made available online so that anyone, whether they are a former or current Witness, or in some way associated with Witness friends or relatives, can give their honest opinions about the organization and its governance.
We adopt a strictly non-religious viewpoint, meaning that we refuse to promote any belief structure in particular. For this reason, we cannot be accused of trying to “draw off followers.” We are merely interested in garnering the views of ordinary Witnesses and reporting on the facts.
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses has not authorized or sponsored this survey, and it is run entirely without any influence or input from them. However, we genuinely feel that the brothers who serve on the Governing Body, having assumed such overwhelming responsibility, should take note of how ordinary Witnesses and the general public feel about their leadership, since millions of lives are affected by decisions they make at their private weekly meetings.
Who started this website?
I write under the name John Cedars. Until recently I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I left for conscientious reasons. You can read my story on this link.
I first had the idea to begin gathering the opinions of Jehovah’s Witnesses and their associates around the world because of a variety of issues that continue to be of real concern to me. I believe that ordinary Witnesses who devote their entire lives to loyally serving Jehovah, through what purports to be God’s spirit-directed organization, should have some say in the decisions that are made on their behalf.
It is my belief that not all is well within the organization, and many of the teachings and practices encouraged by the Governing Body are not formulated with the best interests of ordinary Witnesses at heart.
An unmerciful practice
For example, take the practice of shunning or “disfellowshipping.” The Apostle Paul’s words to the Corinthian congregation were as follows: “But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man… remove the wicked man from among yourselves.” (1 Cor 5:11,12)
Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians about the disfellowshipping arrangement never called for family members to be torn apart

Clearly the Apostle Paul was delivering this admonition for the purpose of keeping the congregation clean. But to what extent should these words be applied? By saying “not even eating with such a man,” Paul indicated that his words weren’t directed against family members (who would daily eat with one another), but against other brothers in the congregation with whom one might consider sharing a meal.
There is no reason to insist that the word “anyone” should be applied arbitrarily to “everyone,” irrespective of age or circumstances. Even Watchtower publications acknowledge that there should be some exceptions where family members are concerned. For example, a disfellowshipped husband is not to be shunned by his wife or children, and parents are not banned from speaking to their disfellowshipped children if they are not yet old enough to leave home. But why should it end there?
Many share my opinion that there is scope to extend even more mercy in applying this scripture than is currently encouraged by the teachings of the Governing Body. Jesus said the following to the unrighteous pharisees: “Go, then, and learn what this means: ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.” (Matthew 9:13, New World Translation)
Jesus identified mercy as playing a crucial role in the extent to which laws and principles should be enforced. Many do not think it is merciful that older teenagers, many of whom were baptized at an extremely young age, are forced out of their homes by their parents and then cruelly shunned, often for the rest of their lives, through a mistaken and abhorrent interpretation of the Apostle Paul’s advice.
The Society’s publications themselves warn that “no one should be forced to… choose between his beliefs and his family.” (July 2009 Awake!, p.9) However, they apply this reasoning to every religion but their own.
The scriptures clearly prescribe “shunning” purely as a measure for maintaining the spiritual cleanliness of the congregation, and not for the purpose of breaking up families. To go one step further and insist that shunning should also apply to families is both destructive and deeply unmerciful. It also violates the principle expressed by the Apostle Paul at 1 Timothy 5:8 where he said, “Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.”
These and other teachings of the Governing Body are increasingly becoming a cause of sincere distress for many Witnesses who wish that the organization could adopt a more merciful and loving stance. In particular, one can now be disfellowshipped as an “apostate” merely for disagreeing with the Governing Body over this or other issues.
Only human
It is my sincere desire that by means of this website, and its surveys, the Governing Body will humbly consider the pleas of both myself and like-minded ones around the world who long for the Watch Tower Society to be a more loving organization – one that is truly observant of the need for respect and tolerance toward other people’s beliefs.
The members of the Governing Body are only human, and no matter how much they may pray for wisdom and insight, they cannot possibly be fully aware of how their teachings and directives are impacting the lives of their fellow worshippers on a daily basis. That is what makes this survey website so important. It serves as a constant reminder for them to show greater kindness and mercy in undertaking the role that they have assumed as the faithful and discreet slave.
I would like to thank you in advance for your support for this site, and for getting involved in our important work.
Warmest regards,
 
new-cedars-signature2

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332 Responses to About JW Survey


Newer Comments →
 
 CARLOS FARINHA says:

 September 19, 2012 at 8:21 pm
 
Boa noite.
 Nunca desista do seu trabalho.
 Os cristãos primitivos eram humildes e sinceros.
 Continue e revele as mentiras do ” corpo governante ” .
Obrigado.
Reply
 
 
 Aonymous says:

 September 22, 2012 at 11:39 pm
 
WBTS are Criminals….
Reply
 
 
 A Happy Witness of Jehovah says:

 September 25, 2012 at 11:37 am
 
Some of the comments offered here are sounding like apostasy to me. I would not ever want to voice such opinions as the ones even by the founders of this website. I truly believe this is “Jehovah’s” organization and the fact He uses imperfect men does not make it any less His. When one speaks out against His earthly organization they are speaking out against His ability to make sure things are done properly. We must have faith that errors will be corrected and adjustments will be made. That does not make Jehovah’s teachings erroneous but merely a fact when men are used. We know His Holy Spirit is always prayed for and is a guiding force for all. Did you ask for His spirit when you decided to voice your opinion for all to see? Did you ask His guidance for the website you have created? You have given voice to apostates which we are never supposed to listen to. How does that make you feel? It makes me sick to even think about it. I am sure the “first” apostate is very happy. Thank you for the space but I really hope you will pray for Jehovah’s guidance and really think about what you are publishing. Some of it is shameful.
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 September 25, 2012 at 1:57 pm
 
I’m sorry you feel that way. Is there anything I’ve written on this website that is demonstrably false? If so, please draw it to my attention and I will gladly look into it.
Reply
 
 
 Emma says:

 January 21, 2013 at 12:20 am
 
Well said! I agree with you! :)
Reply
 
 
 Truestory says:

 March 7, 2013 at 7:10 pm
 
In Jonestown they believed in Jim Jones as the ultimate spokesman for god so much until they were willing to die with him… Will you drink the kool aid if they ask you to?
Reply
 
 
 
 a former witness says:

 September 26, 2012 at 5:42 am
 
A faithful Jehovah’s witness couple survive the battle of armaggedon.They notice that there is no survivors in the immidiate vicinity and are so happy to be alive in the new system that they start making love to each other. Just at that moment a faithful Jehovah’s witness who died is resurected.He hears some noise and a rustling behind the bushes and goes to investigate. “Thats not fair!” he shouts, “they make it through armaggedon alive and now they’re breeding like rabbits, and yet I died and was resurected and not only am I not supposed to have sex, I’m not even allowed to masturbate!”
Reply
 
 
 songofecho says:

 September 30, 2012 at 10:10 pm
 
I always thought that was unfair. Many JW’s are told to wait until the paradise to have children, and many who wait die before armaggedon and will never be able to marry and have children. The JW’s don’t believe resurrected ones will be allowed to have sex, but they teach that even if Abraham had sacrificed Isaac, Jehovah would have resurrected him to fullfill the prophecy of Isaac being the father of a great nation. How would that have been possible if he couldn’t have sex?
Reply
 
 
 An unhappy witness of Jehovah says:

 October 13, 2012 at 7:28 am
 
I have been raised in the truth [49 yrs old] and I was a faithful ‘Happy Witness of Jehovah also, for 35+ years until 2002 when I was chemically poisoned at the dry-cleaners I worked in and damaged the lining of my lungs. Because I now have severe chemical sensitivities and asthma [My throat & lungs close up during an attack]. I was now no longer able to walk into a Kingdom Hall, Assembly Hall, or go door-to-door without a severe attack. The elders of my congregation AND my own family members who were JW’s said I would be considered inactive and was told that if I couldn’t go to meetings or out in service that I would die at armeggeddon. I wrote the Governing Body at NY a letter and was told that there is nothing we can do, just do your best that you can. So now I get the phone tie-in from my local congregation. I can get my magazines thru the Society’s website. KM’s are a hit-and miss situation unless I stop at my bookstudy coordinator’s house and pick them up myself… But I get very limited contact with my brothers and sisters because of the stigma attached to a publisher who cannot go out in service or meetings. It’s been VERY diffcult emotionally because I know what the literature says about showing love for our brothers and sisters but I can see how my family & I have been treated for the past 10 yrs. So I know that most of the ‘Happy witnesses’ out there that would never say ANYTHING negative about the organization have NEVER had their faith tested to such extremes. So there may be some negative comments that sound like ‘apostasy’ but truth is truth!
Reply
 
 
 sharah says:

 October 14, 2012 at 7:53 am
 
In the time of ancient Israel the measure of keeping the nation clean of fornicators,adulterer of criminals,etc,etc. Under the Law, a wrongdoer deserving capital punishment usually was pelted to death with stones. (Le 20:2) This was to ‘clear out what was bad from their midst.’ All Israel would hear of the punishment, and fear of such wrongdoing would be instilled in their hearts. (De 13:5, 10, 11; 22:22-24) In stoning an evildoer, they showed that they were zealous for true worship, anxious to see that no reproach came upon God’s name, and desirous of maintaining a clean congregation.
 Before a wrongdoer could be stoned, AT LEAST TWO WITNESSES had to give harmonious testimony against him, and thereafter they cast the first stones. (Le 24:14; De 17:6, 7) The prospect of being the executioner made a person think searchingly in giving evidence and doubtless was a deterrent to false testimony, which, if discovered, would cost the lying witness his own life.—De 19:18-20.
Reply
 
 
 Mandalay says:

 October 14, 2012 at 3:44 pm
 
Unhappy witness. Unfortunately, your situation is no big surprise to me.There was an wheel-chair bound sister who had moved into a house less than 1/2 mile from our Kingdom Hall. Her husband was not a JW but would bring her to the meetings in a van. Our elders basically told her to scram, that she lived in territory assigned to another Kingdom Hall about 5 miles away and she needed to go there. She was devastated emotionally and cried. Imagine having to tell her unbelieving husband about the unwelcome the congregation gave her. There is not enough space here to get into specific quotes, but this kind of insensitivity is coming directly from content in the WT publications, as the publications are often held in higher esteem than the God’s Word itself. Keep up what you’re doing and remember, our ministry takes many forms. If you can, write a few letters to friends and relatives expressing your faith and report your time. Persons in your situation can report fractions of time. And keep writing the WT.
Reply
 
 
 Sarah Puffer says:

 October 20, 2012 at 10:25 am
 
I relate to Candace Conti in a major way. I have a story of truth that would blow your mind. My real paternal grandmother was a Witness, when my grandfather died she and my Aunt and Uncles moved in with our family. They were all grown and able to care for themselves. My grandmother was very active in the Organization (which they like to call themselves) until her death. She sat and did nothing while her son raped and tortured my two oldest sisters. This went on for so long that my sister finally got pregnant by my uncle and left. This started when my sisters were 10 or 11 years old. My grandmother, father and all of my aunts and uncles knew what was going on in our house, but no one cared. My grandmother and father moved us to Vidor, Tx. when I was 5 years old. Little did I know that my father had communications on paper showing that we girls were for SALE. Yes, for sale pictures were taken, so that people could see what they were bidding on. The bites came, but they were for every child but me. I was settled on and adoption came, along with depression. No one ever sat down and told me that I had a new mother and father. The new mother had a daughter by a previous marriage who was 13 and hated me. She told me to never touch her, and so I caught on real fast. My parents had left the house one day and two men came to our house and picked me up screaming and kicking all the way out to the car. I was put in the car and told to shut up. The neighbor remembered it 30 years later. He said it haunted him like a ghost. So I spent months on a swing in the front yard, waiting for my real mother and father to come and get me. My new father didn’t take long at all to start straightening me up. I would have to do stupid things like walk in high heels along the fence line all day so that (as he said) I could learn to walk straight. I was given a bible and assigned scriptures at the age of six so that I could learn to read (with no help) If I couldn’t do it, I got a horrible switching when he got home. When I started first grade I could read and write. Self taught, along with a lot of whippings. By the time I was 8 I wanted any other woman to be my mother, except the one I had. Little did I know that the arguments between the husband and wife stemmed from resentment that she had built up over him molesting her daughter. I learned this years later. Over the course of 13 years, I was mentally, physically and sexually abused. When I was 19 I left. I have suffered from a lot of abuse in my life because when you are raised with it, it is very hard to teach yourself how to change it. The mental damage was never corrected. I have been under the care of a psychiatrist for many years and I take medication. My nerves are so bad that even though I was a secretary for years, it is very hard for me to type and I have to correct a lot. I am 58 years old and I can hardly function. I cry all the time. Someone told me that I should try to see the happy side of life and my reply was:”I don’t know how to be happy, I was never taught happy. My Dr. informed me last week that, I was going to die because I take the largest dose of medication that my body can stand. I was molested by my new father from the ages of 10 to 12. I told his wife, she called the other elders in the Congregation (YES, he was an elder) and he was forgiven because he was repentant. He admitted doing it and he was forgiven. When I left home, they moved, after they told everyone that they had kicked me out because I was in love with him and I wanted him to divorce her and marry him. This was done to destroy my credibility, so that if I ever told anyone what went on in our house, I would not be believed. I was allowed one friend who was 10 years older than me and she was told that I lied a lot. After each visit with her my mother would ask her what we talked about and if I said anything out of line? I lost everyone I had ever known growing up when I chose to leave Jehovah’s Witnesses. When they moved they told everyone in their new congregation that they had no children. 35 years later when I come walking in to bury the man, people actually told me that they did not know that these people had any children. One woman said, they raised us children, and I want you to know that you were a very lucky child to have them as your parents. I was dumb-founded. Lost for words, I remained quiet. Another woman hugged me and thanked me for taking care of the funeral arrangements financially, because they could not afford to take care of it. Again I had no reply. Who thanks a child in their 50’s for taking care of their parents burial? Everything in the will was left to The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Brooklyn NY. I will look at the settlement for Candace as a success in the settlement of my parents estate. My daughter found my real family in 2010. It has proven to be very unsettling for me. I can honestly say that I LOVE unconditionally, my children and grandchildren, and God. If anyone ever lays a hand on them they will be answering to God personally. Like the saying goes: “Hell hath no wrath like a woman who has been scorned.” Or as I say: ” Life stinks and then we die.” Where is the justice?
Reply
 
 
 Phil says:

 October 21, 2012 at 1:15 pm
 
God Bless you Sir. I will pray for you. I hope your family form the Kingdom Hall realise they have a duty of care towards you. Draw close to Our Saviour he is right there near to you. Ask and you will receive.
 love your Brother in Christ
Phillip
Reply
 
 
 Graham Central says:

 October 21, 2012 at 7:51 pm
 
I stand with you in spirit, Cedars. One may leave a legitimate religion and not fear losing one’s family connections. When one leaves a cult, that cult does everything in its power to ruin the one leaving, even seperating one from one’s family. Having been raised as a JW, this much I have learned: Being raised in a cult is like being raised in a snake pit. In my opinion, the Watchtower Society has become a spiritual police state. I have learned that people only pay attention to what they discover for themselves. Nothing that I might do or say will change the outcome of things.
Reply
 
 
 KtotheRAD (Konrad) says:

 October 25, 2012 at 12:28 am
 
The Society itself says, “The Truth can never be Apostasy” but since when do they care much what they themselves write? And there are No Excuses or Allowances for Disabilities in that organization as you found out the hard way! If they can’t see it? It ain’t there!
Reply
 
 
 MATIN SARFAS says:

 November 17, 2012 at 4:24 am
 
Let hope the wt is on it way out over Candace
 Con> hope her lots money she is wins over wt let as now .martin I came out wt 2002
Reply
 
 
 Roger says:

 November 18, 2012 at 7:36 am
 
It really is a shame. I have been serving for some 35+ years, (I no longer associate)which included being an Elder and Congregation Secretary,and many other positions, as you would get these because of who you are, and have met some really decent and committed Christians in the organisation. And yet I found very little love among them. They seemed to be almost scared of the People around them in particular the Elders. And the various Cliques and innuendos, as well as the gossips that keep apart and destroy the very thing that should unite. “You will know them because there is Love among them”…
Well I found very little, to the point that due to my wife who was not a witness, I had not one call ever to my House in that time, other then to question certain actions that I took based on scripture, such as regularly “calling on the flock”.
What really upset me was the way that the governing Body demanded all sorts of behavior, while the Bible clearly said that Jehovah looks favorably on those contributions given freely of ones own accord. These would be acceptable in Gods sight.
 And yet it was amazing the amount of “you have to do…
The other point I would like to share is the one of dates.
 Now that I think about it, this format is possibly incorrect/insufficient, as I would need much more space, as there are so many inconsistencies which would show just how far they are removed from reality.
with christian Love
 Roger
Reply
 
 
 Anonymous says:

 November 18, 2012 at 7:45 am
 

An unhappy witness of Jehovah
 I have been raised in the truth [49 yrs old] and I was a faithful ‘Happy Witness of Jehovah also, for 35+ years until 2002 when I was chemically poisoned at the dry-cleaners I worked in and damaged the lining of my lungs. Because I now have severe chemical sensitivities and asthma [My throat & lungs close up during an attack]. I was now no longer able to walk into a Kingdom Hall, Assembly Hall, or go door-to-door without a severe attack. The elders of my congregation AND my own family members who were JW’s said I would be considered inactive and was told that if I couldn’t go to meetings or out in service that I would die at armeggeddon. I wrote the Governing Body at NY a letter and was told that there is nothing we can do, just do your best that you can. So now I get the phone tie-in from my local congregation. I can get my magazines thru the Society’s website. KM’s are a hit-and miss situation unless I stop at my bookstudy coordinator’s house and pick them up myself… But I get very limited contact with my brothers and sisters because of the stigma attached to a publisher who cannot go out in service or meetings. It’s been VERY diffcult emotionally because I know what the literature says about showing love for our brothers and sisters but I can see how my family & I have been treated for the past 10 yrs. So I know that most of the ‘Happy witnesses’ out there that would never say ANYTHING negative about the organization have NEVER had their faith tested to such extremes. So there may be some negative comments that sound like ‘apostasy’ but truth is truth!
Reply
 
 
 John Wolf says:

 November 18, 2012 at 8:08 am
 
Isn’t it wonderful the way truth will infiltrate even the most close minded and blind followers who really want to know truth.The Holy Spirit is in the world searching for those who will come to the True Light of the world,Jesus Christ.Without Him,all walk in darkness.He is worthy of our praise as witnesses of the true God.I do my best to follow the teachings of the Bible,especially where it instructs me on who to worship.For example: NWT of the Christian Greek Scriptures,1950 edition @ Hebrews 1:6,”But when he again brings his firstborn into the inhabited earth,he says:”And let all God’s angels worship him”.I thank God that he has allowed such a wonderfully accurate and perfect translation to be manufactured,aren’t you? I mean,after all,if it’s O.K. for the angels to worship Jesus,then we should be able too also,right?
 I was also struggling with the idea of the Holy Spirit being an impersonal “Active Force” rather than Him having the attributes of a person when I stumbled onto II Cor.3:17 in the NWT,where it plainly says,”Now Jehovah is the (Holy) Spirit”.I no longer struggle understanding that the Holy Spirit is indeed a person,He is God Almighty,because according to this verse,He is Jehovah! Praise His wonderful name! I certainly do not understand though how this verse could be referring to any other Spirit as Jehovah,Because Jehovah is Holy isn’t He? And if Jehovah is Spirit as Jesus said He was in John 4:24,what other Spirit could Jesus be referring to than the Holy Spirit? If Jehovah is Holy,and He is Spirit,then logically thinking,He must be the Holy Spirit,right? Of course,that the same conclusion I came to! I’m so glad there are others who see that the Watchtower has been in error about so many different things.It’s truly refreshing that there are others who have decided to think on their own when it comes to some of the Junk that the GB dishes out.Keep up the good fight of faith and continue to expose error for what it is!……….thank you,John.
Reply
 
 
 Apóstolo TDS says:

 November 19, 2012 at 5:04 pm
 
Um irmão anônimo, uma Testemunha de Jeová/TDS, indicou-me seu site hoje. vim ver e lê-lo. Adicionei-o aos meus favoritos e, de tempos em tempos, virei aqui ver o andamento do trabalho cristão do irmão.
Força e que o “espírito dos Deuses santos” continue a iluminar o irmão. – Daniel 4:8, 18.
amor cristão desde São Paulo/Brasil.
Apóstolo Testemunha dos Deuses Santos
Reply
 
 
 Stormy says:

 November 19, 2012 at 9:27 pm
 
I feel so bad for you. But I’m surprised it has taken this long for you to see how JW’s REALLY are. It’s all so fake and phony. Once you’re in, then you’re not the shiny new toy anymore and if you don’t find a click, well, you’re alone, even if you’re surrounded by 300 JW’s. Time to get out dude! Really, run for your life…or walk really slow, but just get out! Wish you the best from Cali USA
Reply
 
 
 William E Enoch Sr says:

 November 30, 2012 at 6:12 pm
 
Cedars, I don’t believe Happy Jehovah’s Witness can show anything false in what you state on this website. You have presented the ultimate “conversation stopper”. Happy Jehovah’s Witness undoubtedly has not and probably will never be taught by the GB how to deal with facts when presented in the field service.
Reply
 
 
 Random says:

 December 29, 2012 at 1:40 am
 
Hey. I would like to let you know that people like you dont make it any better for people like jw’s. They already have enougfh trouble as it is going out and getting yelled at, constantly offended by opposers and even picked on by people who were “friends”up until the moment they corner them with abusive talk about their own religion to their faces… Religion isnt about people who praise hallelujah to a god they dont even know let alone even read or know the bible… It is about being kind, reading and knowing the bible so well, you practically know most common verses, being friendly to all (including those who oppose you), and believeing and having faith in your religion. And from my view point thats exactly what Jw’s do, compared to most other people who claim to be apart of a religion, when all their money is just going into the so called “priests” etc and their lives and dedication to churches is toward some really fake religions… Not saying there is a right or wrong religion here of course. Just saying- religion is a delicate matter. And if Jw’s are a religion (which they are not a cult. They truly are a religion), they should not be abused by so many and constantly be singled out as a “cult” or a “sect”. They are indeed more a religion than any other ive seen… I guess thats up to you to make sure you guys make the right decision. And im guessing this website was set up because some jw offended you or was too over the top or broke your heart or even you may have been a jw once… But truly… If you think making a website picking on other people and their beliefs makes you any better a person… I would reconsider… And i hope you actually read this and think long and hard… This isnt a threat… Its a conversation from one ordinary person to another…
Thankyou sincerely,
 Random. (i would be obliged to tell you my name but i dont want any stalkers or anything following me cause frankly, thats an invasion of privacy).
:)
Reply
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 January 31, 2013 at 8:11 am
 
‘Picking on other religions’ eh Random? WHat do JWs do except declare that all other self declared CHristians are ensnared by the Devil and deserve an imminent divine murder at Armageddon? Most people I know who come across JWs only as door knockers, actually admire their earnest devotion. It is we ex JWs, who have experienced the horrors of your cult from the inside, that know the truth about JW TRUTH. Your posts, Random, are, of course, valuable in the global campaign to destroy the WBTS. Any curious reader will see the dreadful state of mind of one whose mind and life are totally dominated by JW indoctrination. Keep up the good work Random. In our separate ways we will help to rid the world of this JW scourge!
Reply
 
 
 
 James yehat says:

 January 5, 2013 at 12:25 pm
 
I came across this site a few weeks back and though about just ignoring it as the founder and sponsor seem to at least express things which are similar to other anti- Jehovah`s witness sites – but decided on my own initiative to express a few concerns.
 1 – I do question whether the owner of this site is in fact one of us?? due to the nature and manner of the disagreement expressed on this site.
 2 – The organisation is unique in that it is the only one that does ever thing that is only based on the bible – so it is not influenced my man or preference`s or personal choices based on back ground or culture for example; it only goes be the bible and the principles in the bible.
 3 – the governing body in making its final decision on matters do delegate and intrust a lot of responsibilities to branch committee`s – all the way down to the appointed elders in the congregation – that means that when a decision is made, lets say in the case for a miner to be diss fellowship; there are a few things straight away – depending on the age of the child its parents are informed and a discussion takes please with the judicial committee as to how best help that child to make its way back – please note these suggestions are done in consultation with the parents – in addition there are not strict guidance – a resent update on the process that elders much follow before reaching that stage if they decide to do so – in addition the child or teenage has the opportunity to appeal against the there decision that the elders locally make. The appeal committee makes an independent decision based on the truth in the case – & if they cannot make a decision then the branch in that country look into the case and a decision is then made – if at that stage the decision is to go for the serious discipline to diss-fellowship then a review on that decision much be done on a yearly based by the original judicial committee, if not sooner- the spirit and attitude is to all way help the erring one to come to there senses and yes this is the over riding point to show and give clear evidence that he / she is repentant & secondly to maintain cleanness in the congregation –
4 – if that child / teenager is at home what this all happens then the parents are with out question still responsible for the physical care of this child – it is so by the law of any land and it is also fully expected by the organisation – if for some reason the teenager decided to go leave by mutual consent be all concerned then that is not done by the influence or decision by the organisation & its governing body –
so what can I say in conclusion on this matter? its this – we must all be loyal to Jehovah & his organization at all times as Jehovah`s dedicated witnesses – remember Jehovah is over all in charge and he as delegated authority to his son Jesus Christ who in turn has the Elders in his right hand of authority who are refereed to has stars. must full trust and wait on him knowing that any errors and wrongs will be set straight by our loving and caring father Jehovah who does all things for the sake of his people – I suggest that this site just like many others will in time become a irrelevance, and gods people will only go from strength to strength.
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 Cedars says:

 January 5, 2013 at 12:31 pm
 
Thanks James for your honest if rather programmed reaction to our site.
Your prediction is: “I suggest that this site just like many others will in time become a irrelevance”
I have about as much confidence in that prophecy as I have in this one…
“[Jehovah’s Witnesses] believe that… some who saw the events of 1914 will also see the complete destruction of the present wicked world” – Reasoning book, page 200.
Cedars
Reply
 
 
 Ray says:

 January 20, 2013 at 2:11 pm
 
The Aborigines (and I love them for it) have been around over 80000 years: before a bunch of goat herders in a Middle Eastern GPS unavailable to them decided the world of humans must sit up and take note. It was not surprising therefore that it took until about 3 centuries ago for them to even hear about this. Maybe this had something to do with Jewish circumcision? Shrug! You see the Aborigines split the penis from behind the tip right down to the groin area and let it heal into some broccoli looking expression of genitalia that enabled them to use reeds to control conception. Even if the Jews had ventured there, such comparable macho practices would hardly stack up against these raw hard natives – best leave these alone and stick to our less conspicuous “Snick for Yaweh.”
You can, no doubt see the comparative appeal right there?
So why then, I ask you all, are we so vehemently credulous to fall for a smalltime goat herders philosophy, from a time before refrigerators and anaesthetics, as if it applied to the whole world and every human therein from before and beyond space time as we know it? How can we grant plausibility to an idea that an all powerful mind, for reasons undescribed and left to our suspicions, decided to give these snippets of rulings and regulations to certain humans in certain places in the hope that somehow others , down the millennia, would be equal in falling for its preposterous claims to have rights over all of us?
And why should we tolerate such a manifestly intolerant preposition upon all humanity???
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 February 3, 2013 at 12:43 pm
 
Books, Videos, Facebook pages, blogs and websites exposing the house of lies and horrors that is the WBTS are proliferating; ditto the number of impending court cases connected with JW pedophile protection. The WBTS, meanwhile (which you, James Yehat, with pathetic credulity describe as ‘God’s Organisation’) has stalled in its expansion and is likely soon to diminish. The internet, with its interactive, as opposed to top down, communication, is the enemy of dictatorships everywhere, and the JW bosses are incapable of handling it. They have labelled ‘apostates’ as mentally diseased. Having failed to steer their followers away from the internet and possible infection with heresy (i.e real facts about the JW cult), they are now making efforts to engage with the internet via an improved website. This will be ineffectual; no feedback will be admitted which does other than glorify the outfit that produces it. I suggest, James Yehat, you prepare yourself for the implosion of your poisonous cult, and for re – engagement with the world that you have pretended you are no part of. The ugly little corner of the world that has always pretended it is no part of the world, i.e the JW org. will, we hope, soon be merely a grubby little footnote in the history of Christendom.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 January 10, 2013 at 1:28 pm
 
James Yehat, and other believing JWs or sympathisers; have you ever stopped to consider why there are so many anti JW websites and Facebook pages? This does not happen with other sects, denominations or even with every cult. I was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness, and it was, by far, the worst aspect of my childhood. I actually believed JW TRUTH, as spouted by the Elders at my UK Kingdom Hall in the 1950s. Jehovah, back then according to the JWs, was set to murder the greater part of the human race before the end of the 20th century; and why? because the greater part of the human race did not attend the Kingdom Hall and spend their spare time and money on buying and distributing WBTS lit. door to door.
Can any of you believing JWs tell me what the WBTS has achieved beyond the following:
1. Inducing nightmares about a mythical Armageddon.
2. Making an unevidenced claim that its bosses, the Gov. Bod., are the ‘Faithful and Discreet Slave’ as mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 24.
3.Causing the deaths of thousands through their ever changing blood transfusion edicts.
4. Causing the splitting of families through their shunning directives.
5. Protecting paedophiles through their 2 witness rule.
6. Making a series of duff prophecies about the advent of Armageddon. (1925, 1941, 1975 and before the death of the 1914 generation are but a selection)
7. Furnishing Judge Rutherford with a luxury mansion (Beth Sarim) and a brace of Cadillacs.
8. Covering up the Masonic origins of the cult when Russell founded his Bible students.
9. Depriving millions of a decent education by declaring any skills beyond the ability to read JW lit., and spout JW doctrine door to door, to be ‘worldly’.
10. Amassing a vast property portfolio in Brooklyn and around the world.
I would be interested to hear of any other achievements, but having read the history of the cult by many authors (including the WBTS ‘Proclaimers’ book) I have never come across any others.
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 ceecee says:

 January 17, 2013 at 8:05 am
 
if you were in a congregation where I live this would not happen. You could learn sign language and participate more fully.
 Devon
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 Peter says:

 January 18, 2013 at 10:49 am
 
to:Rowland Nelken,
☻
I have been a witness all my life
 I want to serve God
 the correct way.
The only thing that JW’S have gotten wrong are DATES-☺
They are organized to preach the Good News
 i have learned that
 God is not a trinity
 God does not torment people for ever
 God has a name just like everyone else JEHOVAH
 The soul is not immortal
 JW’S don’t fight wars
The dates set are not PROPHECY FROM THE GOV BOD.
 JW’S believe that after the bible was written there is no need for prophecy
Those are the Pentecostals that hear words of knowledge and alike, but since they don’t publish a mag 42 million per mag, no one knows just the people in the church.
So when someone speaks of JW AND PROPHETIC DATES, not true.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 January 18, 2013 at 1:55 pm
 
So, Peter,, if Armageddon dates are the only thing that JWs have got wrong, then the JWs must be right about the following:
1. Armageddon can be calculated by taking measurements from the Great Pyramid.
2. The Crucifix is an appropriate Christian symbol.
3. The Crucifix is not a Christian symbol.
4. Jehovah has no opinion on blood transfusions.
5. Jehovah forbids blood transfusions.
6. Jehovah is OK with blood transfusions so long as the blood is delivered in fractions.
7. Jehovah approves of celebrating Christmas on 25 December.
8.Jehovah forbids celebrating Christmas on 25 December.
9. True Christians will be raptured at Armageddon.
10 True Christians will not be raptured at Armageddon.
11. Membership of the anointed is restricted to JWs baptised before 1914.
12. Membership of the anointed is restricted to JWs baptised before 1935.
13. There is no restriction, datewise, on membership of the annointed.
No doubt JWs can claim to have been right about many more things than the 13 foregoing. I wonder why not everybody accepts that JWs have THE TRUTH?
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 Ray says:

 January 20, 2013 at 1:51 pm
 
There is nothing malicious or weak about your life situation respecting any cosmic mind. No force or power has duty upon you to exert more than you happily are able to desire to do.
 I used to be a Jehovah’s Witness! The concept of apostasy is: an abuse upon the human mind: a degenerate subversion of thinking per se , and an exploitation of the individual to free think their own life course ( as many, throughout the history of humanity, have happily done for a lifetime; unhindered by any mention of scripture or deferral to some other persons claim to know of a cosmic mind looking on.)
Credulity is the enemy of happiness and the slayer of reason. It is a poison to the soul.
It’s why I’m aniti theist, not just atheist. And I state this, not against humans per se, but against ALL the philosophies that are permitted access to, and usually to poison beyond reform, the amygdala of unsuspecting humans in every generation.
Yes, I utterly detest that which dresses faith as a virtue when in truth it is the most carnal of all desires to have inflicted upon any virgin mind!
Best wishes to you, long sufferer of life on Earth!
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 Emma says:

 January 21, 2013 at 12:18 am
 
Are you CURRENTLY a Witness Cedars? Answer these questions for me: What is so BAD about the organization and what it teaches? what would you do differently? It really saddens me that God practically BEGS humans to obey his commandments and live by his standards and finally, this organization does just that and of COURSE, some one (in this case Cesars) finds fault in it and tries to nit pick and find imaginary grievances…. smh @ Cesar. Makes me wonder what has happened to make you feel this way? Were you counselled for misconduct? Did you not get a position that you felt entitled to? What happened? So OK. Lets say you succeed (which is HIGHLY unlikely) in bringing the Watchtower DOWN…. Then what? You will start a religious named the Cedarslites? What’s next? Just remember brother “Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.”
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 Cedars says:

 January 21, 2013 at 1:03 am
 
“Are you CURRENTLY a Witness Cedars?” Yes, I am neither disfellowshipped nor disassociated – I am merely inactive.
“What is so BAD about the organization and what it teaches?” In short, it is a cult. A cult is any organization, religious or otherwise, where the teachings or instructions are potentially damaging to those who join. In the case of JWs, you have shunning of disfellowshipped family members (unscripturally), protection of pedophiles (failure to observe their crime if there is no witness), and encouragement to decline medical treatment with blood (even though the bible has nothing to say about blood transfusions). You also have 8 men leading the organization claiming to be guided by God with no objective evidence to support this claim. If all of that doesn’t raise any “warning flags” with you, go right ahead and get baptized.
“what would you do differently?” I would disband the organization.
“Makes me wonder what has happened to make you feel this way? Were you counselled for misconduct?” I woke up, as simple as that. I decided that the reasons why this COULDN’T be God’s organization were simply too many to ignore, and I decided there was therefore nothing stopping me from disobeying the Society’s instructions by doing objective research. I read Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz, and it blew me away – the fact that this is just a human organization after all. I would recommend you read that book too.
“Did you not get a position that you felt entitled to? What happened?” Title or position had nothing to do with it. I was once an elder but stood down. Prior to my “awakening” it was made very clear to me that I could be an elder again if I put forth the slightest effort. I decided that I didn’t WANT to be an elder if I could see so many things wrong with the organization from the top down.
“You will start a religious named the Cedarslites? What’s next?” I have no interest in acquiring followers or starting any religion. I am only interested in helping people out of a damaging cult. If you really want to know my religious viewpoint, please read my article: http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/is-jwsurvey-org-an-apostate-website
I hope that answers your questions.
Cedars
Reply
 
 
 alun williams says:

 April 25, 2013 at 5:07 am
 
well said
Reply
 
 
 
 Peter says:

 January 21, 2013 at 8:37 am
 

Rowland Nelken
 So, Peter,, if Armageddon dates are the only thing that JWs have got wrong, then the JWs must be right about the following:
 1. Armageddon can be calculated by taking measurements from the Great Pyramid.
 2. The Crucifix is an appropriate Christian symbol.
 3. The Crucifix is not a Christian symbol.
 4. Jehovah has no opinion on blood transfusions.
 5. Jehovah forbids blood transfusions.
 6. Jehovah is OK with blood transfusions so long as the blood is delivered in fractions.
 7. Jehovah approves of celebrating Christmas on 25 December.
 8.Jehovah forbids celebrating Christmas on 25 December.
 9. True Christians will be raptured at Armageddon.
 10 True Christians will not be raptured at Armageddon.
 11. Membership of the anointed is restricted to JWs baptised before 1914.
 12. Membership of the anointed is restricted to JWs baptised before 1935.
 13. There is no restriction, datewise, on membership of the annointed.
 No doubt JWs can claim to have been right about many more things than the 13 foregoing. I wonder why not everybody accepts that JWs have THE TRUTH?
Rowland,
The pyramid? that was how long ago?
 dis JW teach about a pyramid?
do the research
Science also thought many things that have changed
 Do you say the same about science, the number of planets changed, are we going to dismiss science because it changes according to what it learns?
The mayoralty of what you have mentioned are dates,
 just like i said.
¿What have JW gotten wright?
 ¿any takers on that SUBJECT?
I wont list them here because i will be told i am issuing WT PROPAGANDA.
Reply
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 January 31, 2013 at 8:02 am
 
No Peter. You won’t list what JWs have got right because there is nothing to list. Unlike your attitude to me, I do not think you deserve an Armageddon death penalty for differing in your views and behaviour from me. You, however, have been drilled by your Brooklyn bosses to believe that I face an imminent and deserved divine murder for my failure to be unpaid mag. distributor for a global publishing and property corporation. I hope that one day you will escape the clutches of the cruel cult that dominates your existence. It may well be that the WBTS will face an avalanche of court cases in the coming years for its criminal protection of pedophiles in its ranks. It hides, as you may know, behind the Deuteronomy based 2 witness rule, in defiance of the law in every land where it operates. COurt cases will mean fines, enormous fines that your mag. purchases and unpaid labour, Peter, will not be able to meet. When property is sold, including, maybe, your own Kingdom Hall, what will you do? If you can’t generate cash for the WBTS, the WBTS will discard you. The ENd is nigh, Peter, for your misery making cult. I suggest you prepare yourself.
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 Ray Owen says:

 January 21, 2013 at 10:51 am
 
Apostasy is a misnomer! How can one know this? From the basic assertion that ones belief is unquestionable – else apostasy – amidst thousands of beliefs humans have posited such a claim about down the ages.
Hence the very concept of apostasy is clandestine tribalism snook in to appear more sophisticated as if some cosmic authority sanctioned this as claimed by who else but, you guessed it, long dead humans.
The fact that many virgin births and 12 disciples leaders, resurrection after 3 days… plus a raft of other similarities, predated Yeshua (Jesus) by thousands of years hardly disguises the fact that ALL of these were still only limited to a small fraction of the geographical Earth as we now know it. What it strikingly illustrates is the massive credulity any human mind is all too easily polluted by when limited to age old myth and fiction as if universal truth. The amygdala makes too soon an emotive bonding therein which becomes increasingly painful to contemplate the cessation of!
Hence “faith” : the misapplication of deep emotional bondings to fictional information supplied as universal knowledge.
In light of the above, apostasy becomes the liberation and disclaimer of the fiction by which one was initially deceived and deluded (emotionally hijacked).
Reply
 
 
 lost in space says:

 January 29, 2013 at 8:48 pm
 
I got baptise at 12…back in 1972. I stop going to the meetings because I did not see anything wroung with wearing a beard ,as long as it was neat and trim and clean. I was told by my brother the elder , that was not right to do. I needed to shave or suffer . because to properly represent Jehovah you must be clean shaved, or look like a worldly person. And not be look at as a productive wittness. Are you kidding me! I told him if Jehovah wanted me to shave ,why allow me to grow facial hair to begin with. Or any man . I dont think any man has that right to choose for you, even though some work places makes that policy for various reasons. Not sure why people thinks a clean face is honest and noble. I still have a problem with that. Along with beliving 1975 was dooms day. I elected to take my education for granted, since there was no need for it. After all thats what worldly people cared about not Jehovahs people. We got our education at the meetings, what really counts in life. I paid for that dearly to this day. I even recived several scolarships that my Mother turn down,cause we at that time was told not to go to college..to worldly and not needed,cause the new order was near. PLease!!! 1975 came and went,and so did I. There was also a relative of mine that was rape at the age of 12 by her stepfather .He was a ms . She got pregnant ,but was to young to carry the child. The elders never reported it, but her mother did devorce him. And he was disfellowship but reistated and remarried in the “truth” as its put. Never did a day in jail. Also shortly after that another brother in the same hall molested four girls ,ages13-15. when one of the girls told on him, He left town about 50 miles away with his wife, yes she stayed with him. he did the same thing in the new hall he went to with another lil girl. Not a day in jail, no prosecution even after repeating the samr crime. Today hes still giving public talks on Sundays. His wife still with him. He was never able to look me in the eyes after I found out. Nor did i forgive him. I wanted the family to prosecute him, and send him to jail. Of course they look at me as worldly, and that was not going to happen. the second time he got caught did not matter to them or the child he molested. WOW! And i call that my family. That family member is 40 now and still have nightmares, and no closure. Im 53 and now trying to find a true religion…There’s not any. So i depend of the bible and what it ask of me as a person to do to have favor with my creator and savior. I did go back to the hall I was raised in At 51. They treated me as if they hated that my life was good and my house was paid for…no probems living a worldly life, nice car, my own fitness club. Most of all they still was saying that same line….dont worry about having a good life here ..wait for the new order. I did confess my sins to the elders and was made an active member along with my kids joining the school for a year….but i made a mistake by reporting an elder that was selling predatory loans to the brothers, making up to 14000.00 dollars on prime lending per house as a brooker. All those who who went for the scam cause they had bad credit lost thier homes within 5 years. the elder was the presiding overseer. when they found out i was causeing a problem, they reopened my comfession case from a yeay ago ,stateing they did not form a judicial committe..they only meet with me with two elders , not three…i told them you said i was forgiven by Jehovah so you said,so whats the point of doing this again. they did it anyway and put me on restriction again. for the same sin i was forgiven for a year ago.whats the point? All seven elders knew the first decession and agreed all I had to do was to have a study with an elder in the what dose the bible teach and another book to catch up with the new light. I never return after that meeting to the hall. they came by house and said they saw a big inprovement in me after 30 days. Dispite not seeing me at the hall. and lifted the restriction. But they say they are being lead by holy spirt….yea ,and so Im I. I never went back. An elder call me and ask my problem…i said in a nut shell < that you dont need new light to report a serious crime as rape…you must and let police decide what to do. And you cant change a disipline so one that has not brought reproch on jehovah people. i never claim to be a jw my whole adult life , but have to pay to the congregation for what? He did not even have the details of all the rapes that has occured because the world want to presucute the wittnesses because of who they are..I said really..I guess PenN State is also a vitim, withholding info..A lot of people paid for that who knew …. the GB along with there followers knew too.. so welcome to the real world….Religion is a snare.. and you must be yourguide to Jesus not as a group. no one is judge or can be by a man…so they need to back off and just deliver the message. They think there elite because a man told them, he was a what..a prophet with money and a dream,and able to change the bible text and make false claims to dictate fear in people. Follow a fool, and you will bcome one. our bible is not accurate and need s a proper update by a real greek scholar. Not Barber&Russell.
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 Amazed at the sheer ignorance says:

 January 30, 2013 at 2:21 am
 
What just amazes me is how people can pass judgement on others, make vast sweeping statements and make out that they know best. This isn’t just based on this page, but other pages I’ve read on this website. While you’re at it why not just say all black people are criminals, all asians are rapists and all white people molest their children. If someone has a faith, no matter what it is, allow them to do so. Just like people put their faith in clearly corrupt governments, some people look to a god or gods to help them through. I am not promoting cults or religions that encourage things are clearly legally, morally and ethically wrong. But do you not see the world that we live in? Are you completely blind to the atrocities that go around the world and even in your own town? Are you one of these people that because of Al-Qaeda now look at any Asian wearing a turban and label them as a terrorist, not even knowing what religion they belong to? No doubt many Witnesses have done wrong, perhaps they don’t even believe in Jehovah and want to make others think all Witnesses are like that. Is that not what Al-Qaeda have managed to achieve on a vast scale? There is still a huge amount of racism and prejudice in this world and it is sickening. It disgusts me, not because I am a Jehovah’s Witness, but because I am human. People seem to find nothing better than to highlight the negatives of everything. All the news is just propaganda; newspapers don’t sell when they write about happiness and success. Failure, murderers, extremists, death, devastation among other negative things sells. Things that scare people and about other people. This only leads to more prejudice and discrimination. People are so narrow minded that they believe whatever they read and whatever they hear.
Why not think for yourselves? Why do you take everything on face value? Why not question what is being told to you? Why not be different rather than follow the crowd? From what I know JWs are told to question everything and not blindly believe what they are told. So if after they question it and they want to believe in a god called Jehovah, leave them to it. There are clearly many of you who don’t question, don’t look at both sides and just believe in any hype. You get on the hate bandwagon and ride it all the way along. Yes we have freedom of speech, but why use it to hate others? You think JWs have been brainwashed? You make me laugh. Have a good look in the mirror and consider yourselves. You are brainwashed by governments, by news, by media, by advertisements, by your family, by your peers. Everyone has an opinion and they all want you to believe it. But it is your choice what you want to believe. Get some compassion, get some humanity and stop believing in everything you hear/read. Some people do wrong, a lot of people do wrong, but I’m sure that you would not wanted to tarred with the same brush as other people, so don’t do it others. You should think about improving your own life, bettering yourself, rather than being petty and focusing on the flaws of others. Trust me, you have a heck of lot of flaws that people could write a bible about.
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 Cedars says:

 January 30, 2013 at 11:14 am
 
Hello “Amazed”
Since we are speaking candidly, you should know that there are a number of people who are “amazed” at your outlook. In fact, there is an entire discussion thread about your comment on this link: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/245433/1/Apostates-are-narrow-minded-victims-of-brainwashing-who-believe-everything-they-read Feel free to set up a forum account and get involved in answering people’s reactions to your statements on that website. I personally have no time to debate with you, not least because you don’t really seem interested in debate – only attack.
I would like to take this opportunity to apologise for deleting your comment and banning you from this website with such rapidity. On reflection, as others have reminded me, it is always better for people visiting this website to see for themselves how blinkered and accusatory Watchtower apologists can be. You provide a stunning example in this regard.
Thank you for contributing to this website, despite being told not to. I hope you wake up and smell the coffee at some point, but I won’t hold my breath.
Cedars
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 January 30, 2013 at 3:25 am
 
Several commentators on here have complained about the very idea of a website which criticizes, or even challenges, the beliefs and practices of Jehovah’s WItnesses. This is absurd. Jehovah’s Witnesses, by definition, believe that all of us outside their organisation, deserve an Armageddon death penalty for refusing to believe and act as they do. Jehovah’s WItnesses are the epitome of self righteous arrogance. Their bosses achievements, over the decades, have been uniformly destructive and negative, where they have not been criminal or even murderous. I refer to pedophile protection and the blood transfusion ban when I write of crimes. We who have known the organisation from within, have a moral duty to expose this foul cult, warn the curious who may be tempted to join it, and, ultimately, to bring about the cult’s destruction.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 January 30, 2013 at 3:53 am
 
No Peter- I did not mention dates. That a JW TRUTH is long ago does not alter the fact that, coming from a JW boss, it had to be accepted as God given TRUTH, or the doubter would face Armageddon destruction. What about the flip flops on blood, Christmas and the crucifix? The only reason that you, Peter, or anyone else can remain a Jehovah’s WItness is by burying your head in the sand and ignoring facts.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 January 30, 2013 at 1:15 pm
 
JWs presume that all who are not of their number deserve the death penalty. A cult which does nothing but slag off the rest of humanity and looks forward to the day when its mythical obscene Jehovah creation murders the greater part of humanity, deserves nothing but exposure. It invites a campaign for its destruction. Unlike JWs, who look forward to my murder, I do not wish a violent death on individual JWs. I simply wish them release from the control of a bunch of self righteous old farts in Brooklyn (The WBTS Gov. Bod.)who have captured their minds and lives.
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 Chris says:

 January 30, 2013 at 2:05 pm
 
It always amazes me that current JW’s can never accept the fact that anyone would leave the organization with their integrity intact. Whereas the opposite is true in many cases and this self-righteous attitude comes across as the height of arrogance. I feel sad for them as I did all my wasted years truly believing what I was doing was correct.
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 Ray Owen says:

 January 30, 2013 at 3:01 pm
 
I left decades before the cognitive dissonance relented and I finally stopped having sympathy and subservience to various residual forms of their intellectual and emotional garbage. I will not forget the ones who got me in who were several generations into this organisation , or the humungous lies they pedaled to me which, became apparent down the line. It became incredibly obvious many are in it and don’t believe it all, yet will back stab you at a word wrongly out of place that breaches their code of totalitarian passivity they insist everyone adheres to. I detest their doctrine, in full! I will not forgive those who misled me into it and knowingly exploited whatever they could to maintain their long line of effluent. This is the only nostalgia I have of them and theirs – a sewer with a lasting stench! Good riddance to your whole system and I state it plainly, you are a parasite on all good people everywhere, not least those you mislead into your ranks to masquerade your oppressive, repressive delusional as if representative of good people. This is your cunning – trick some good folks into line and they will do the rest of your dirty work. Scumovahs Witnesses is the residue you prevail upon the unsuspecting mind! You cannot fathom how detestable your thinking is to me. Humanity would do well to be free of it! To poison the free mind into your dross is anathema to the very existence of humanity!
Reply
 
 
 Strongisland34 says:

 January 30, 2013 at 3:06 pm
 
Emma;
 Where in the bible does it say that im supposed to follow after man or an organization??? God doesnt beg anyone to follow him…he stands at the door and knocks…and if you let him in than…no begging….Jesus Christ died on the cross for those that would believe….Jesus Christ is the WAY, THE TRUTH and THE LIFE…no man or organization….Unfortunately the religion that you follow has brainwashed you into thinking that Jesus came back to the earth invisibly and picked Jehovah Witnesses, who werent even called that back when he supposedly came back. Its funny the Bible only speaks of two comings of Jesus Christ…the one that already happened when he was born of a virgin and the one that is to come…no invisibly but every man will see Him…Its time to wake up and crack open that Bible and start to see what is really being taught….You dont need a man or an organization to interpret the Bible for you….Remember Jesus left His Holy Spirit to be our Helper…not a man or an organization….The day of Pentecost is when The Holy Spirit was given to the apostles who believed….and that same gift is given to all that believe….I pray that your eyes will be opened..
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 Ray Owen says:

 January 30, 2013 at 5:08 pm
 
This might be good if in the last 200 years humans had not realised that Aborigines had been isolated from most other land areas for over 70 thousand years before even the Jews arrived with their written codes etc and even the Egyptians were not quite cutting the stone yet. So its amazing to think humans lived for tens of thousands of years without a hint of any Abrahamic ideas running planet Earth. China is another unknown in all kinds of ways. We – over here in the western regions – have still got this idea our heritage has ruled Earth since some beginning or other when in fact most of the Earth never heard of it for most of Earths history. We won’t get into fossil records yet and how many millions of years ago that went the way of earthquakes and volcanos – just like Darwin in the Galapagos that were a relatively recently formed series of islands out of the sea that then evolved their own unique features due isolation from other species.
I too was brought up having it drilled into my amygdala that love is to be put in ideas of old that I had no way of checking out. It took me the next several decades to rid myself of emotional bondage to those early tricks of mind to amygdala shenanigans.
The humans brain has ways of doing this for life – as humans used to do with the idea everything went around the Earth due the sun across the sky by day. We are too easily swayed into thinking we see how it is. Worse however is to come when we are too easily swayed into loving such ideas. The amygdala does not easily give way to reasons in the same way a young child is reluctant to let go of Santa. It al seemed so magical after all….
Anyhow, I come not to bring bad news, or to cause you pain, though the Santa years do leave a bitter taste in the senses of many children: so worse still for adults when we start to see how very impossible it is that the whole of humanity down the ages were ever even aware of what we think everyone ought to think truth – as in many religious ideas.
It leaves us in a cheated barren phase wondering what on Earth to think or worse still to feel is the point of our life. This is no fun lesson for it is a deception put on the very core of our emotions. Realising most humans who ever lived never even had such beliefs as we are having is indeed a great shock to bear and worse still to rebuild a new world view out of. It took me a painful few years to do this and worse still the feeling I could never go back and relive life in the sensible ways I am now able to think apply to all humankind. No need for the religious ideas of men from an age long gone!!!
There is a guiltless place where it’s up to us to treat each other well and no one is looking on to see we do so. It’s just up to those of us who see it as the best way to live and no need to make up stories about why. Also to oppose those low life who couldn’t care a sausage about who suffers and who doesn’t. That’s about where it’s at. A good a place as I ever got to. It makes complete sense and no guilt, obligation and fear of some unknown someone else can browbeat me, or anyone else, with.
Keep a firm hold on your own mind for many will seek to take it from you – religion et al.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 January 31, 2013 at 3:36 am
 
Science does not proclaim its findings as God given Truth. It is based on the principle that new evidence may overturn current assumptions. The WBTS is not. Its litany of flip flops are all introduced as absolute, Jehovah delivered, once and for all Truths, and doubters will be administered the Armageddon death penalty. The WBTS is a mental dictatorship or it is nothing. The internet, fortunately, makes life difficult for dictators of every stripe, and an internet search by any any doubting JW will soon reveal that JW TRUTH is an ever changing pack of lies based on the say so of a bunch of self appointed, self righteous old geezers in Brooklyn who make a totally unevidenced claim that they are ‘The Faithful and Discreet Slave’ as mentioned by Jesus in Matt. 24. On this outrageous claim the entire authority of the WBTS bosses is based. Peter; I have asked countless JWs for evidence to back up the ‘F and D Slave’ claim of the JW bosses. None has supplied any. The reason is simple; there is none. Do you have any?
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 Ray Owen says:

 January 31, 2013 at 6:16 am
 
What is amazing is how we have now got incredible ways to survey the skies and see how the Earth is but a minor planet going around a minor star to an extent both are undetectable on any picture of the universe. This is all good and interesting stuff! However the trouble with amygdala based information is that it resists all new findings and perspectives. For example; when we learn that the Bible itself is only a set of books that grew over many centuries in a relatively minor region of a fully inhabited globe – that carried on in totally different ways regardless – it begs the question as to what “belief” has ever been a universal “truth”. It takes not very long to see, in pure reason terms, that NEVER is the answer to this. Humans have been growing in knowledge and perspective over the millennia and as such cannot know any mind of any unknown suspect: their god!
What we do have is the residue of minds of people from far less educated and enlightened times still subduing our amygdala emotions (usually from very young) and so brainwashing our emotions with ideas we are supposed to preserve till death. Hence belief becomes not a truth per se but a perversion of brain function to be subservient to an early emotional deception. Like a bear in a cage, the longer this goes on the more the human loses all sense of alternative till their fright and flight senses defer to the cage of their pains and oppression – the only place they know and feel as familiar; the belief system they inherited or adopted.
The trouble then of course is that it is far trickier to make a new mind and emotional basis for life per se – even when the guilt obligation and fear of this imaginary god subsides. The space one is now in is quite daunting and new, uncertain and confusing. Such feelings are a cruelty on the escapee from indoctrination who have already suffered greatly the traumas of religious domination.
Learning how to learn and how to take control of ones own mind – fully – is no easy journey, but nevertheless a far greater integrity than that of the demands of our long dead ancestors and the messages they were dominated by back in their day absent all the information humans have since discovered and communicated to each other.
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About JW Survey

A message from the founder of JWsurvey.org…
It is my pleasure to give you a warm welcome to JWsurvey.org. This website has been launched to give voice to millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world who would not normally have the opportunity to say what they really think about the Watch Tower Society, or the teachings and practices of the Governing Body.
The Governing Body has yet to express any interest in hearing the views of ordinary witnesses. Their mantra is: “We talk, you listen!”

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, or a former Witness, you will be aware that the opinions of rank and file publishers (and even elders) are rarely sought by the Society. The small number of men making up the Governing Body have declared themselves the “faithful and discreet slave” of Matthew 24:45, thus claiming sole control over the organization’s teachings and policies. These men are most certainly NOT interested in the opinions of the “silent majority” of Witnesses under their authority. If they are, they have a strange way of showing it!
This website seeks to redress that balance by means of an annual survey that is conducted anonymously throughout the world. The first survey was taken in 2011, and immediately attracted the opinions of 1,118 voters before closing at the end of the year. The results were posted to the Governing Body for their attention and review but, predictably, they never replied.
The following year, 2012, the survey received votes from 1,488 current and former Witnesses, most of whom expressed their concern at various Watchtower teachings. The remarkable events of that year (the Candace Conti case and the “new light” about the faithful slave) certainly seemed to get people talking. Subsequent surveys promise to attract even more attention as our website steadily grows in popularity.
A website for all
This site has been created and made available online so that anyone, whether they are a former or current Witness, or in some way associated with Witness friends or relatives, can give their honest opinions about the organization and its governance.
We adopt a strictly non-religious viewpoint, meaning that we refuse to promote any belief structure in particular. For this reason, we cannot be accused of trying to “draw off followers.” We are merely interested in garnering the views of ordinary Witnesses and reporting on the facts.
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses has not authorized or sponsored this survey, and it is run entirely without any influence or input from them. However, we genuinely feel that the brothers who serve on the Governing Body, having assumed such overwhelming responsibility, should take note of how ordinary Witnesses and the general public feel about their leadership, since millions of lives are affected by decisions they make at their private weekly meetings.
Who started this website?
I write under the name John Cedars. Until recently I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I left for conscientious reasons. You can read my story on this link.
I first had the idea to begin gathering the opinions of Jehovah’s Witnesses and their associates around the world because of a variety of issues that continue to be of real concern to me. I believe that ordinary Witnesses who devote their entire lives to loyally serving Jehovah, through what purports to be God’s spirit-directed organization, should have some say in the decisions that are made on their behalf.
It is my belief that not all is well within the organization, and many of the teachings and practices encouraged by the Governing Body are not formulated with the best interests of ordinary Witnesses at heart.
An unmerciful practice
For example, take the practice of shunning or “disfellowshipping.” The Apostle Paul’s words to the Corinthian congregation were as follows: “But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man… remove the wicked man from among yourselves.” (1 Cor 5:11,12)
Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians about the disfellowshipping arrangement never called for family members to be torn apart

Clearly the Apostle Paul was delivering this admonition for the purpose of keeping the congregation clean. But to what extent should these words be applied? By saying “not even eating with such a man,” Paul indicated that his words weren’t directed against family members (who would daily eat with one another), but against other brothers in the congregation with whom one might consider sharing a meal.
There is no reason to insist that the word “anyone” should be applied arbitrarily to “everyone,” irrespective of age or circumstances. Even Watchtower publications acknowledge that there should be some exceptions where family members are concerned. For example, a disfellowshipped husband is not to be shunned by his wife or children, and parents are not banned from speaking to their disfellowshipped children if they are not yet old enough to leave home. But why should it end there?
Many share my opinion that there is scope to extend even more mercy in applying this scripture than is currently encouraged by the teachings of the Governing Body. Jesus said the following to the unrighteous pharisees: “Go, then, and learn what this means: ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.” (Matthew 9:13, New World Translation)
Jesus identified mercy as playing a crucial role in the extent to which laws and principles should be enforced. Many do not think it is merciful that older teenagers, many of whom were baptized at an extremely young age, are forced out of their homes by their parents and then cruelly shunned, often for the rest of their lives, through a mistaken and abhorrent interpretation of the Apostle Paul’s advice.
The Society’s publications themselves warn that “no one should be forced to… choose between his beliefs and his family.” (July 2009 Awake!, p.9) However, they apply this reasoning to every religion but their own.
The scriptures clearly prescribe “shunning” purely as a measure for maintaining the spiritual cleanliness of the congregation, and not for the purpose of breaking up families. To go one step further and insist that shunning should also apply to families is both destructive and deeply unmerciful. It also violates the principle expressed by the Apostle Paul at 1 Timothy 5:8 where he said, “Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.”
These and other teachings of the Governing Body are increasingly becoming a cause of sincere distress for many Witnesses who wish that the organization could adopt a more merciful and loving stance. In particular, one can now be disfellowshipped as an “apostate” merely for disagreeing with the Governing Body over this or other issues.
Only human
It is my sincere desire that by means of this website, and its surveys, the Governing Body will humbly consider the pleas of both myself and like-minded ones around the world who long for the Watch Tower Society to be a more loving organization – one that is truly observant of the need for respect and tolerance toward other people’s beliefs.
The members of the Governing Body are only human, and no matter how much they may pray for wisdom and insight, they cannot possibly be fully aware of how their teachings and directives are impacting the lives of their fellow worshippers on a daily basis. That is what makes this survey website so important. It serves as a constant reminder for them to show greater kindness and mercy in undertaking the role that they have assumed as the faithful and discreet slave.
I would like to thank you in advance for your support for this site, and for getting involved in our important work.
Warmest regards,
 
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332 Responses to About JW Survey

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 Rowland Nelken says:

 January 31, 2013 at 7:50 am
 
Great and informative post, Ray Owen. It sent me straight to Wikipedia and this new term ‘amygdala’. This deep retention of early years fears, a property, it appears, of this part of the brain, explains in part why it took me so long to purge my mind of the JW poison pumped in during my early years (c. 5 -14) at the Kingdom Hall. Those whose entire family are JWs and under pressure to not only get baptised, but to pioneer, must suffer far more from that cruel cult than I ever did. Sites like these provide JW victims not only with the opportunity of enlightenment about their selfish captors, the JW bosses, but also an insight into the tragic state of mind illustrated by the posts of JW true believers. They can only serve as a warning, either to steer clear of JWs, or, if already captured, to make for the Kingdom Hall exit.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 January 31, 2013 at 9:06 am
 
Strength to strength eh? JW growth has stalled, and with a whole queue of victims of JW pedophiles, protected by the JW org. queueing up in the courts worldwide, it is likely that the coming years will see extensive draining of JW coffers and thus, Kingdom Hall closures. Who says that JWs are God’s organisation? WHere is the evidence that the old farts in Brooklyn, the WBTS Gov. Bod. are the ‘Faithful and Discreet Slave’ as mentioned in MAtt. 24? I have asked countless JWs to produce evidence of this connection, and none has been able to. There is no evidence. The JW Gov. Bod. are the ‘F and D Slave’ for no other reason than that they say they are. Without other ‘evidence’ their entire authority collapses. The ENd is Nigh, guys; the end of a corrupt and damaging Adventist splinter of a cult.
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 Ray Owen says:

 January 31, 2013 at 9:27 am
 
Thanks RN!
Yeah, its good to know part of our brains are extra responsive to emotionally generated memory input and that unlike say in a science class where each new learned fact supersedes previous ones with enthusiasm, in the case of emotionally generated inputs to the brain, new information is less welcome and most likely to be dismissed with hostility.
In a crude sense it can be seen how religious cults hyper focus on these contexts of brain information by generating holistic models ( Complete stories/ scripture about the whole world and the future and whom is running things unseen) that keep the brain going around in emotionally regenerated circles. Basically the information they conspire and cherry pick (as have all Biblical entrants down the ages) propagates servility to another’s mind/s, rather than relying on itself (ones own mind) to sieve out what it wants and does not want. Hence it then becomes a fear and guilt based function TO USE ONES OWN MIND whenever one takes in information that may be scientifically exciting but which ridicules religious precedents. For this reason the religious hierarchy seek their own preservation and power via such anti truths as bringing out the archenemy Satan as responsible for scientific findings or in fact any general good independent use of the human mind (they demand an emotive response/ defense to what really is a very interesting part of being human – the ability to discover and pass on new findings and information about us and our existence). SO religions and its network of thinking per se will only tolerate information it is able to include and adapt to as if it were all part of their “ideology” – otherwise Satan or apostacy.
Hold that idea for a moment!
The idea that if someone says something that insults a world view, no matter how true real and fact based.
We are now in the territory of the sincere individual being oppressed and rejected due having found out or learned something worth knowing simply due the other persons amygdala networked emotions being willing to die before it will accept such information and ostracising the other person for not submitting to their emotional construct. Personality disorders function this way; making constant and unquestionable emotional demands just because they feel it!
In a way it’s hardly any wonder we have so many personality disordered humans when we consider how prolific the religious mind is amongst us along with the plethora of emotionally generated power hungry delusions (scripture and their interpretation of what it demands of us) they propagate for the sakes of the hierarchy who enjoy a slave owners popularity or affluence or both – usually lifelong fringe benefits of some form or other and often multi generational for their offspring et al. If you find a long suffering hero or icon that contradicts this conclusion – it’s usually an exploitative tactic for someone who is in the ranks just below or thereabouts. Like the music industry – the one making most of the money isn’t necessarily the one standing center stage.
Like the maestro of public speaking, Christopher Hitchen’s would often confirm, skepticism is a far more honest state of the human mind – than credulity; where one takes in information unfiltered like a child in a candy store, so eagerly that the later pains of realisation further inflict the mind and emotions with a trauma that it cannot nearly so easily retreat into vomiting.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 February 3, 2013 at 8:03 am
 
Real believing JWs have yet to say anything meaningful in defence of their obscene little cult. Beyond protection of pedophiles, mastering the arts of cult mind control, amassing a vast property portfolio, making a false and utterly unevidenced claim about the JW bosses being the Faithful and Discreet Slave, causing unnecessary deaths through their murderous blood edicts, equipping their old boss, Rutherford with a mansion, Cadillacs and servants and steering millions away from a decent education, the WBTS has achieved nothing. Its record is a disgrace and an insult to humanity. And then there is its string of duff prophecies and countless unnecessary Armageddon nightmares and broken families through shunning. Well, JWs – what can you say in defence of your foul misery making little cult?
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 Ray Owen says:

 February 3, 2013 at 8:04 am
 
Your story is a fine collection of total confusion and mixed messages this religion screws around with your head about:
1) No law on Earth comes close to that of the JW org.
 2) Earth laws are to be kowtowed to under the umbrella of JW org advice.
 3) Never think for yourself – just try to work out an emotional and intellectual path through all the contradictory stuff you see going on – in other words act like a zombie and think like a zombie then get ready for some punishment when you get accused of being a zombie!
 4)Goto 1.
Now for your information: I can see how your head and heart has been screwed with and then you are told to go for another ride on the same carousel.
The alternative is peculiar: Leave all the people you got to know and deal with the impossible task of finding new friends who already usually have their lifelong regular associates ( can’t be done effectively); Kowtow to stuff you despise and curry favour when you can from the friend you half-have and take the joy if it exists amongst the few you know well – but remember you can never be yourself with them or relax the rules that stop you doing so else you will be back in the JW zombie courts with brown nosed elders et al ( They just love the brown; yummy to them); Do like I did and surf beliefs per se going through; pagan beliefs, eastern ideas; panentheism etc. You will find some have a great simple philosophy like do as you will but harm none, however in reality humans are full of bullshit and are full of double binds where they think they know what you think and so have the right to expect you to prove them wrong for what they suspect (kinda brown nose to their own ass kinda thinking); Then there is atheism where I got to with a hint of Robert Anton Wilsons “Who is the master who makes the grass green (because to other creatures eyes it isn’t green at all etc).” and I find there that you are on your own for the most part because often there are still loads of religious brown nose heads in your neighbourhood who think atheism is a satan incarnate (now I know who I am and what I think; which always was a pretty good mix for others since I rarely hate someone lest they keep rattling my bones on a regular habit they have – but you still can’t escape all these brown nosed regulars sticking their brains where the sun don’t shine and expecting you to do a few routines for them and their endless suspicions).
My bottom line? All the writings of man through history that pretend to know a superior mind is riding some clouds in a place nearby can go and do one; I reserve my rights to say that I know as well as anyone who ever existed whether this mind communicated to me alone and in my own solitude absent me having ever read or seen a word from another polluting my perspective on this: claiming it wants this or that from everyone as unquestionable. Hence ANY scripture is as useless to me as yesterdays weather and all those who keep on talking about it are in the same historic place. To my mind it is for humans to agree to their own humanitarian rules and to know this is what they are and these are things that might be changed from time to time and not under some putrid threat of everlasting torment which usually corrupts a human mind with very unhealthy sufferings and also often unhealthy reactions to said sufferings for all involved.
I enjoyed you sharing part of your journey with us – thank you so much! I was once in some similar difficulty. Where I am now is not necessarily a better place but it is a place more free from brown noses and my own brain collecting its share ipso facto ( I think the American Psychiatry Association refers to this as catching fleas as when a personality disordered individual gives you some of their behaviours and woes etc). I’m sure many in ALL religions are a little like the bankers who simply invest their deceptions there for fringe benefits and in reality hide the fact they don’t believe a word of it or anything like as much as you do. I grew up amongst groups who functioned like that per se; always acting friendly to outsiders and shafting them as the opportunity arose. In this respect religion is an ideal shafting vehicle, so it’s little wonder some who rise to the top are more exploitative than the sincere human can understand. If you have a mass of investors , how easy can it be to negotiate the ranks and get access to all the benefits one might desire? For those of us who spent years in the guilt and obligation mind frame it is unbelievable to learn than many never feel guilt and simply dish it out to control and manipulate others by rulings and double binds that they only kowtow to for the power it gives them. They are the ones who are judging personas and excuse all the stuff they indulge in by convincing themselves they atone for this by beating up on others – either unfairly or legitimate. PD individuals function in the same way and they really believe their own BS. This takes me back to what I said earlier: don’t quote scripture at me and not expect me to see brown all over your face!!!!!!!!!!! Some good advice the next time an elder brings out his New World Translation. I know you will be offended by this next point, though I intend none whatsoever; I NOW think and NOW feel in 100% of my psyche, of the Bible as of little value and predominantly as an outdated set of ideas of long dead men! I still hold the good treatment of each other as its only worthy message though that could be got from who we are per se. I once had no clue how I could ever lose the importance I held the Bible as – as if the only true book for all humanity. Here I am though as empirical world evidence taught me to first think differently and second to lose the painful emotional release/liberation from it all.
Best wishes to you my fellow human!
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 February 3, 2013 at 11:31 am
 
Several JWs have left their comments and, having failed utterly to defend their cult, have disappeared. This happens also on every Facebook page connected with JWs. What do they do when it must be clear to them that their cult and its pretensions are shown to be indefensible, and that they, (the Believing JWs) come to realise they are nothing more than pathetic dupes of a corrupt corporation which uses the threat of Armageddon annihilation in order to force yet more productivity from its unpaid labour force? Do they slink back to the Kingdom Hall and try to wipe out any doubts that their online encounters have generated? How do they square the lies and murderous inconsistencies of the organisation that has dominated their lives, with the notion that JWdom is the fount of Jehovah issued absolute TRUTH? Perhaps some JWs could explain this mystery, or maybe some recently emerged (or should I say ‘escaped’ or ‘released’ JWs) for whom the memory of this dilemma is sufficiently recent, could take us through how they dealt with the enlightenment and Kingdom Hall exit episode.
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 Ray Owen says:

 February 3, 2013 at 12:29 pm
 
Amazing that Marvel comics have an obsessive equivalence in the JW brain. Batman versus The Joker is how the whole universe ticks over. The idea there is a big goody and a big baddy! These two theatrical characters loom large in every emotion of the JW (and many a religious mind) as “Totalitarian thought submissive emotions” that will defy ALL reason and sensible discussion. The subverted mind exists and even depends upon itself now thus can only recycle the stuff it has already been hoodwinked by.
You see, any and all logic, discovery and whatever else you could think to educate a human about are totally blanked out; by the emotions of FEAR and the FOOLISHNESS of misplaced loyalty (fabricated, fiction taught love). These artificial brain constructs or imprinted emotions then form a lifetime barrier to a believer to ALL information; no matter how real, no matter how true. Like a sieve mounted on a heated mould, everything will be filtered out or squeezed to fit their universal fiction (scripture) else dumped as archenemy attacks.
In essence, the JW brain has had a historical set of monster memes (ideas that most humans down the ages have been proven to submit to) redesign their feelings and thoughts to fit its own clone production line for replication of same.
It’s practically impossible to see this if you are a fully hooked follower, still going along its conveyor belt. Ones emotions still overrides the clear thinking.
I recall a warning that I experienced at my first post baptism assembly when I went over to chat with some protestors and for the first time ever found that all this witnessing we were doing was NOT for these APOSTATES under pain of my own expulsion. Silly me having thought till then they were a bunch of freethinkers ! In fact , what a naive jerk I was and had no idea of this fact or sadly anyone around me who wasn’t full of the same.
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 Ray Owen says:

 March 8, 2013 at 2:13 am
 
Apostacy is that term used to subjugate the human mind with fear and insanity: that any ideas other than its own are evil or born of malicious intent, not only in the short term but as some universal and unquestionable rule lasting beyond ones lifetime and on down the centuries. The very idea of apostacy, as even a concept worth acknowledging, is bereft of intelligence per se. It cannot be a kindness to any human mind sincerely wanting to learn and thrive, to be told there are questions about things it must not only never ask but also subdue its sense and thoughts about due some long dead humans having already bullied this ruling into the local communities and used it down the ages to enslave people with – either by force , grooming, emotional seduction or general deviance.
So to you who shake inside with fear at the very idea an apostate mind is threatening you I say, ” Grow up, get a grip of your own mind and don’t bullshit me with all your FOG (Fear, Obligation & Guilt).
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 March 8, 2013 at 3:28 am
 
Excellent comment, Ray Owens. And boy, do the JWs exploit the power of that term. Dare to question Brooklyn issued JW TRUTH and it’s Armageddon annihilation for you. And when JW TRUTH changes, by order of the WBTS bosses, as it so often does, re. blood, shunning, Christmas celebrations, Jesus’s beard or whatever, are the JW bosses apostates? No, they are Jehovah’s exclusive channel of communication with earthlings. How do we know the JW Gov. Bod. are the Faithful and Discreet Slave? Because the JW bosses tell us they are. No questions; that’s apostacy and the Armageddon death penalty.
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 Ray Owen says:

 March 8, 2013 at 6:30 am
 
One of the weirdest states of mind JW’s , not to mention many people in general, have is one of superior moral standing – as if following their own code of regulation is more highly respectable in some way. It beggars belief as to how so many people use this snake oil tactic to transplant respectability onto what are essentially lies and worse still emotionally vapid lies. Those holding belief in their lists of rulings and whatever book of historical junk they demand is “holy” are in truth bullying the rest of us with superiority feelings: making us feel obliged to feel they deserve superior respect for making up/adopting historical lies and sounding them off as if from some perfect source of universal grace. WHAT TRASH TALK and I CONDEMN IT FOR WHAT IT IS: half baked guesses by humans of long ago about things they were bereft of any real understanding and about.
This is the landfill site of historic human thought garbage we are still living under the pollution of and it seems is set to long continue unchallenged and getting away with being given totally undeserved power and kudos.
Humans who believe it are most usually the victims of monster ideas that have grown into giants most unsuspecting humans struggle to see for what they are. These BIG sets of ideas most usually do like the multinationals and high finance – browbeat the blue collar worker into kowtowing to the production line of delusions they insist is for our own good and most certainly never to be questioned: under pain of being ignored , sidelined and generally bullied out of service. Such is very much the JW community I ever knew. Brown noses with Cherry Blossom – and the higher up the more chestnut their smiles. What a load of snake oil addicts!!!
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 eyes opened says:

 April 13, 2013 at 10:40 pm
 
Maybe the first question you should ask Jehovah God is to open your eyes to the truth. There is with out question a God who sent his Son to die for us. But what boggles my mind as a former witness is why the people in the JW organization dont do some simple research and see how and why this Organization was started. If God sent his son over 2000 yrs ago why would he need Charles T Russell to come a little over a 100 yrs ago and start or restart Christianity. Do yourself a favor. Pray, ask and let the Holy Spirit guide you to all truth , which is not found in the NWT. Have you ever asked yourself why the JW’s are not allowed to research the history of the organization? What do you know about the man that started it? What do you know about his wife? Have you ever read any of her books? or have you heard her version of Charles T Russell? If you really want to know the truth then I encourage you to remove the shackles of deception and in faith step out and search for the truth. My heart was broken when I realized that the JWS was not the Truth but God in his loving mercy began to open my eyes and set free from the pain and heart break of that deception.
 I was also abused as a child by this organization yet I never blamed God only the men involved. I Love God and I have spent my Life trusting and believing Him, despite the faults of man. Its not about weather or not God will ultimately take care of the injustice of the world ( Because he will ) The question we need to ask ourselves is ” Do we live a life that imitates Christ , are we a reflection of His Love and do we live lives that bring Glory to our Heavenly Father? Can you really look at the JW organization and answer yes? Pay attention to how anyone that is not a JW is treated and pay even closer attention to how many families have been divided/destroyed. My heart goes out to you because I know that you really love God as most JW’s do. Its not even your fault. There is a master deceiver that s really responsible for the lies. I pray that you find truth and that you will have the courage to ask God to show you.
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 Ray Owen says:

 April 14, 2013 at 2:39 am
 
No there was no son of divinity ever sent. Just NO! We already know humans were in Australasia 80000 years before this Middle Eastern myth even got spread around. Suppose it were true – what took it another 1800 years to get the story over there? Just nonsense. Even a child today can send a story worldwide in seconds. Some god your hoping on right there. “Erm sorry folks my mobile takes 1800 years to get around.”
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 Goldylocksnz says:

 May 10, 2013 at 4:54 am
 
Disfellowshipping is wrong, wrong, wrong…. what is just as bad, is allowing teenagers and young people to get baptized… Jesus is our perfect example. He was baptized past the bloom of youth, in his 30’s.
 I long for the day for the big “D” doctrine to be removed!!! They will be judged themselves.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 May 10, 2013 at 5:43 am
 
Do you, Peter, understand the word ‘dates’? Murderous flip flops on blood transfusion are nothing to do with dates. Protecting pedophiles has nothing to do with dates. Unless Abraham and Isaac are going to be resurrected in San Diego in some year other than 1925, then Rutherford’s idiot prophecy in ‘Millions Now Living Will Never Die’ is nothing to do with dates either. Jehovah either approves of Christmas celebrations or he does not, no matter the date. You, Peter, have been drilled by your Theocratic Ministry School only to prey on the lost, lonely and vulnerable in your mission to ensnare others into your cruel cult. When faced with those of us who know your cult from the inside, you have nothing to say. Your cult is indefensible and you must know it. Here’s to your escape!
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 KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:

 July 24, 2013 at 3:09 pm
 
Ray Owen January 30, 2013 at 3:01 pm said:
(And I appreciate the sentiment, empathize if not largely agree)
“I left decades before the cognitive dissonance relented and I finally stopped having sympathy and subservience to various residual forms of their intellectual and emotional garbage. I will not forget the ones who got me in who were several generations into this organisation , or the humungous lies they pedaled to me which, became apparent down the line. It became incredibly obvious many are in it and don’t believe it all, yet will back stab you at a word wrongly out of place that breaches their code of totalitarian passivity they insist everyone adheres to. I detest their doctrine, in full! I will not forgive those who misled me into it and knowingly exploited whatever they could to maintain their long line of effluent. This is the only nostalgia I have of them and theirs – a sewer with a lasting stench! Good riddance to your whole system and I state it plainly, you are a parasite on all good people everywhere, not least those you mislead into your ranks to masquerade your oppressive, repressive delusional as if representative of good people. This is your cunning – trick some good folks into line and they will do the rest of your dirty work. Scumovahs Witnesses is the residue you prevail upon the unsuspecting mind! You cannot fathom how detestable your thinking is to me. Humanity would do well to be free of it! To poison the free mind into your dross is anathema to the very existence of humanity!”
With regard however to the comments that Ray keeps coming back to regarding the Aborigines and “80,000 years being in Australia Pacifica, etc” I do recommend this link for consideration and not that I endorse everything in it or the source but the information seems solid enough that it is worth ruminating on…
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/cm/v15/n3/how-long-have-aborigines-lived-in-australia
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 Faithful Witness says:

 August 15, 2013 at 11:02 am
 
Thank you for your thoughtful response to this website. Your words give me insight into how devout JW’s are taught to think and reason. I have great respect and compassion for faithful JW’s. I almost became one myself, but have happily found myself drawn CLOSER to Jehovah and the Jesus, since recovering from the shock I felt when the true nature of this society was revealed to me. I have found peace that passes all understanding, and the abundance of the Holy Spirit in my life is evident every single day.
I have a hard time understanding why a baptized JW is more pleasing to Jehovah, than a baptized Christian like myself. What makes me an apostate, when I am serving Jehovah every day? My children have learned more BIBLE truths since we started going to a “nominal” Baptist church, than they ever did at a Kingdom Hall. Their love of Jesus comes out in spontaneous songs, the way they interact with each other and with friends, and the choices they make each day. Anyone who would take the time to speak to either of my children, would be hard-pressed to find any fault in their faith or love for Christ and the sacrifice made with His blood. Could we be better Christians? Of course! We have our own tract ministry, that is just getting started. We are not as organized as the JW’s, but our humanity and love is part of our servitude. Jesus loves us, and we know it! He is merciful and the grace we have in our lives, is proof of His divine power and existence.
As we were studying with the JW’s, they encouraged us to examine the origins of religious traditions, rituals and secular holidays, etc… I never had a problem with separating from these worldly “pagan” celebrations, if it was truly pleasing to Jehovah. When we began to examine the truth about the teachings, traditions and rituals of the JW religion, we were confronted with a shocking response from our Bible teacher.
As an honest, open-hearted servant of Christ, I simply could no longer lie to my beloved friends at the Kingdom Hall. I care too much for them, and my own relationship with Jehovah, to stumble anyone else or appear as if I am belittling their beliefs.
We (my husband, my 2 kids and I) are among the very few that I’ve come across, who walked away from the JW meetings, and have since joined another Christian congregation. We were so convinced that we were sentencing ourselves to death, that we stayed away from the “evil” church for over a year. It turns out, the pastor isn’t really a servant of satan after all… He’s not perfect like Christ, but neither is the WTBS… See any irony here? Should you Keep following them, even if they are repeatedly wrong and misleading you?
I am so grateful for the JW’s, and their knock on my door!! It is because of these wonderful people, that I found my way back to Jehovah. I have heard Jesus calling me a few times throughout my life, but it wasn’t until we started our home Bible study, that I really answered that call. Thank you, Jehovah, for a discerning and intelligent mind! Above all, thank you for helping me to see the true nature of Jesus Christ, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Host of Hosts! I will no longer deny Christ! Jesus is Lord!
Jesus paid the ransom sacrifice for the sins of all. You just have to accept this salvation, and allow Jesus to reside in your heart. You can find peace, when you acknowledge Him as your true savior. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, the life. No one gets to the father, but by me.” Jesus was not a liar, and he warned us about getting misdirected and deceived into following the false teachings of men. Nowhere in his instructions, will you find him telling you to go to an organization of men for your spiritual food. The Bible is for everyone to read… Jesus can deal directly with you on a personal level. He is that powerful! Believe in Him!
When you refuse to partake in communion or the Lord’s supper at the Memorial ceremony, you are denying Christ himself. Every person who passes that plate and refuses the partake of the bread and wine, is refusing the sacrifice Jehovah made for him. Satan is happy when the Memorial attendance numbers are reported… Look how many actively deny Christ, while pretending to serve Jehovah!
You are following the teachings, and doing your best to please Jehovah.
 Your faithfulness, and your willingness to contribute to this discussion, is commendable, and shows that you are still capable of using your own mind to make decisions.
Ask yourself: are you serving Jehovah’s will, or are you seeking Jehovah’s approval by your association with the Watchtower? The watchtower is not a god. Your instructions are in the Bible. Do not rely on books and magazines from a misguided publishing company to make decisions that concern your eternal life. We are talking about eternity here! You will have to answer for your mistakes, and unfortunately, that is going to include the number of people that you helped to mislead away from serving Christ.
If the WTBS is truly the sole channel for Jehovah, they will not fear examination. Jehovah does not make errors. He does not lie or give us false teachings (that allow people to die), and he would not direct his slave to protect men who harm children. If the WTBS refuses to answer for themselves, how are we to know if they are Jehovah’s true organization? Are they above reproach? No! They will answer to Jesus Christ, when he actually does visibly return. Everyone will see Him, and Every knee will bow and admit He is God. Will you stand in judgment for ignoring the signs that are being given to you today? Go directly to the words of Christ for your answers. He is mediator to all men who seek Him. Seek Him! Seek His counsel for yourself… You don’t need to refer to a book that reasons with you on what you’re supposed to think the Bible says.
The fact that you are reading these pages, is a sign that you are seeking the real truth about Jehovah, and how He wants your service to appear. Any true organization will be happy to have themselves examined. Beware of anyone who tries to withhold information from you, especially about themselves. There are many faithful servants of Christ, praying for you each day. I have a special compassion for JW’s, who have proven themselves to be worthy friends and associates. When the great tribulation is at hand, I hope you will find yourself on the side with Christ Jesus. Get away from the wicked one. He is lying to you through the governing body, whose conscious mission at this point, is to preserve their own positions of power by isolating JW people from the truths that are being revealed about the society itself.
Truth does not fear examination!
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 INFJ says:

 October 26, 2013 at 3:23 am
 
hear hear
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 hammar says:

 September 11, 2013 at 10:24 pm
 
To all who don’t know that the word “Jehovah” is actually a Catholic word name. From the 12th century created by a Spanish Catholic monk. It is not a Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic word that was used in the early Bibles or Testaments.
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 Mark says:

 September 21, 2013 at 8:50 am
 
My philosophy teacher told me that ‘truth is eternal…it doesn’t change’.
What always intrigued me at the KH was the excitement and anticipation when a ‘new truth’ was revealed, that automatically counteracted the existing truth. As the light was getting brighter, the new truths came thick and fast.
 My eyes were really opened when I asked an elder when the ‘new truths’ would be the ‘final truths’ and why we didn’t call it ‘current truth’. His reply that we should be grateful we aren’t taught Christendom’s lies still makes me smile today.
 Personally, I left it all behind ten years ago, having been blinded for over 25 years. And I am so so so much happier now than I have ever been.
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 KtotheRAD "Konrad" aka Kurt Hennig says:

 September 21, 2013 at 10:07 am
 
hammar says:
September 11, 2013 at 10:24 pm
“To all who don’t know that the word “Jehovah” is actually a Catholic word name. From the 12th century created by a Spanish Catholic monk. It is not a Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic word that was used in the early Bibles or Testaments”
Yes, most of us do know that the pronunciation according to the Tetragrammaton is far more likely to be something closer to Yehuwah or Yahuwah or Yeshuwah but those of us who believe, it will yet be revealed to us at the appropriate time as it is in fact that sacred…The Tetragrammaton was given as a “working name” for now…so that it could not be profaned by the likes of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society!
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 Kevin Kennedy says:

 October 8, 2013 at 10:10 am
 
This Is apace is for all who agree with the opinions expressed, say something favorable about the witnesses and get ready to be call a troll, trolling around watchtower propaganda.
Censorship is everywhere, here too.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 8, 2013 at 10:47 am
 
Kevin Kennedy. Feel free to say something favourable about the Witnesses. I do. I love the way they have redefined TRUTH. I used to imagine it was something that was immutable and eternal. Thanks to my Theocratic Ministry School training I now realise that it is anything announced by the JW bosses. It remains true even when one announcement contradicts a previous announcement. It is wonderful to know too, that those who died for want of blood transfusions, will, when they are resurrected on a Paradise Earth, learn that subsequent generations of Witnesses were permitted to receive blood fractions. It is also thrilling to know that Jehovah will murder all those who donated those same blood fractions. I am also impressed with the evidence for the Gov. Bod’s declaration that they are the Faithful and Discreet Slave. The Gov. Bod. say they are and God appointed them so they must be right. I don’t get upset about all these apostates saying horrid and untrue things about the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Kevin Kennedy. We both have faith that Jehovah will murder the lot of them when he gets around at last to doing his Armageddon. He will also slaughter you and me, Kevin Kennedy, for reading and contributing to apostate websites. But that’s TRUTH and Jehovah’s justice for you.
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 Kevin Kennedy says:

 October 8, 2013 at 11:16 am
 
Are you crazy , say something favorable about the witnesses here? Get my head ripped off..?
The truth is in the bible, that we cant quite see it is s different story
 I joined the group that has leadership. All groups have leadership and usually people look to them for guidance, in any group, why should it be different here with the witnesses, we take the doctors word for things then things advance new things are learned, you’re going to stop treatment because they were wrong?
I doubt it very much that any of us could be more loving and Just that God Jehovah.
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 Truth says:

 October 8, 2013 at 12:12 pm
 
What is being portrayed he is nothing but lies, only absurd lies. We Christians who believe in the God of Creation are not even supposed to make comments at these sites or demonstrate and kind of response but remarks made here about Jehovah God are nothing but lies. But, we are told about satan and we know how he works so we expect this kind of torment. At least WE know what side we are one. If anyone wants to kn ow the TRUTH, JW.ORG. Thank you, Jehovah, for the wonderful life you have given me and my loving family of brothers and sisters, the only true brothers and sisters on the planet of Creation, who refuse to take up arms against anyone. Nor do we denounce our heavenly Father, Jehovah. We praise HIM for all he does for us.
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 Truth says:

 October 8, 2013 at 12:30 pm
 
Luke 23: 34 – Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 8, 2013 at 2:48 pm
 
Please point out the lies, TRUTH. We need your Jehovah issued wisdom to enlighten and save us.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 8, 2013 at 2:57 pm
 
There is someone calling him/herself TRUTH writing that there are lies on this site. He/she has not, however, explained. I was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness and believed the Elders in my congregation when they declared that Armageddon, the great battle when Jehovah would murder all non Jehovah’s Witnesses, was due before the end of the 20th century. It did not happen. The 20th century Armageddon had, however, been presented to me as unquestionable and absolute TRUTH as it had been issued to us via Jehovah God’s exclusive earthly mouthpiece, Nathan Homer Knorr, the then President of the Watchtower Society, and thus the Faithful and Discreet Slave as referred to by Jesus in Matthew 24. This TRUTH turned out to be a lie. My subsequent studies have revealed that the Jehovah’s Witnesses have a track record of duff prophecy and doctrinal flip flops, all presented as if they were the TRUTH. Please, TRUTH, we would like to know where, on this site, are the lies.
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 Louise says:

 October 8, 2013 at 7:33 pm
 
Some of the kindest most thoughtful, non judgmental, warm, generous and humane people i have met in my life are not Jehovah witnesses. They will all die though according to Jehovahs witness beliefs. It doesn’t matter that they have tried their best to help those around them and are more deserving of entering a paradise through their daily altruistic deeds than most Jehovah witnesses. It even doesn’t matter that their sole purpose for doing what they did was because they cared and they wanted to see the other person happy, even without any hope, intent or thought of gaining everlasting life. They will die because they aren’t Jehovah witnesses. If that is the way that god thinks and operates i don’t want to be there.I dont believe for a second that he is that sadistic.
Fear makes people tolerate oppression, unkindness, unfairness. It makes a decent person watch on as bad things happen to basically good people.
 What Jehovah witnesses expect from their brothers and sisters is perfection they strive for it and they are afraid to make mistakes because they might die might loose out or be shunned by everyone else who are also afraid to make mistakes.
 What this religion promotes is fear. Love has no fear.
 I have read the bible myself. Not because i was being forced to in daily bible texts but because i wanted to. It talks a lot about love and what love is. Love is forgiving love does not take account of an injury etc. I do believe that when Jehovahs witnesses look at those words they pick and chose who they should love and who they should forgive and let others dictate that for them. Dis- fellowshiping for example is not showing love it is not loving your neighbor it is taking in to account an injury it is not forgiving. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone and judge not lest you be judged yourself are they not part of the bible?
 The fact is that we are all human none of us is perfect we all make mistakes. Mistakes are a huge part of learning not just what not to do but also how to feel compassion for others based on experience. Life is not black and white. We are not either good or bad. The watchtower Awake and any other literature only strive to promote segregation and fear of the very people that they are supposedly trying to reach.
 Jesus associated with thieves and murderers because he understood what i and many others do which is that sometimes the people who’ve been shown the least love are the ones who deserve and need it shown to them the most and to simply avoid and shun them will never help them.
 your actions are what will speak for you. The way you show compassion and care and love on a daily basis, not because you might have everlasting life but because your heart tells you. It isnt about indoctrinating people in to a system of rules and regulations, how many bible studies you have whether you gave a great talk whether you give loads of cash its about being who you naturally are and showing care and love and anything other than that is a misrepresentation of what the bible is about.
 The bible society can churn out new rules and new doctines and twist it all they like but their haughtiness in believing that they are the chosen ones and the most favorable in gods eyes is their very undoing. The bigoted and self righteous way they manipulate the bible to fit in with their own arrogance is to me sickening.
 I once asked my Jehovahs witness mother a question.We were talking about Jehovahs witnesses reluctance to help charities other than their own especially other religious charities. I asked If we had a tsunami and you had to help someone, who would you help? Would it be the people in your street or people in your congregation? Her answer was My brothers and sisters at the kingdom Hall. Yet god says to love your neighbor what about the good Samaritan i asked? My brothers and sisters are my neighbor i would help them first was her reply….And yet other religions do not pick and choose who they help nor base it on which religion they’re in? We are no part of this world we help one another as one family was her reply. I found her answer disturbing.
 I am not a Jehovahs Witness and for all you witnesses coldly waiting for the end to come and for me to die just know i am prepared to die for my beliefs because if god truly loves people he will not kill them for being imperfect because we were all born that way. It is not mine or anyone elses place as a fellow imperfect human to judge or reprimand anyone else. If Armageddon is coming then god is big enough himself to do his own work and who on earth do they think they are, special? For all They know the mere fact they are so ready and eager and willing to see me die whether it be on his behalf or not might be what makes him chose it to be them.
 Love is something that comes from choice it is not forced or taught it is shown in actions and being frank, i know people who are Atheists, Gay and Catholics who deserve saving more than most Jehovahs Witnesses do.
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 Kevin Kennedy says:

 October 10, 2013 at 12:26 am
 
I too was raised as a JW, i guess we as a whole had common sense, sense enough to know that humans don’t know , especially about Armageddon and when it comes.
Some people like attention, we were raised to look at the scriptures, and not to idolize people, when they said this and that we said what does the bible say, if Jesus does not not nobody knows the end of that story period.
So i or we as a whole family took that with a grain of salt, we knew what the bible said about that subject there. and when nothing happened we said there, you see. they have their mouths under their noses just like everyone else.
I learned very quickly when i was around 15 years old that they , i am talking the org, did not know all, I felt the heavenly calling started reading found out it was kinda closed, and to me at that age they were the MAX with a capital M. How can they be so wrong about this because i am not crazy, so that cause a lot of soul searching to see if i was just plain wrong or just crazy, i was neither,. they were wrong, and it was corrected, years later i will give you that but it was corrected and we all knew that that day wld come and it came. many years later i still have my hope it was no fluke. there was an article in a mag that asked DO YOU BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ? .. and we asked that question many many times, in order to keep us present and awake, Bottom line you can’t believe everything you are told by human beings just like yourself
So i know not to take it so seriously.
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 Kevin Kennedy says:

 October 10, 2013 at 1:06 am
 
It’s all very obvious i don’t want to get into that specially with you, resistance is futile.
Thanks anyway
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 10, 2013 at 1:25 am
 
What, exactly, is your point, Kevin Kennedy? Do you refuse to take the JWs seriously to the extent of binning the whole fraudulent cult? Are you simply defying them on the details and their presumption of omniscience? Your post does not make that clear. As a JW you have to believe the lot, no matter how absurd or contradictory or it’s an Armageddon zapping for you.
According to the Bible and Koran the End was due within the lifetime of the Disciples, St. Paul or Mahomet. Take your pick. It is as well not to take the Bible, Koran or any other man made book too seriously, especially if the writers pretend their book comes from God. Please try and explain your self with some clarity, Kevin Kennedy.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 10, 2013 at 11:12 am
 
We shall never know, it seems, what it was that ‘Truth’ and Kevin Kennedy thought they were on about. An unsubstantiated declaration and some meandering waffle convey nothing beyond the image of a muddle headed writer.
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 Kevin Kennedy says:

 October 11, 2013 at 12:04 am
 
Fraudulent cult, no i don’t think so, Defying them no.
 i have no need to defy them, i simply choose to have things make sense and usually what doesn’t make sense is not true.
And i don’t have to believe anything i don’t choose to, interesting that you don’t even believe in the bible, and like many here are trigger happy with the witnesses.
I like the group, enjoy being with them, love the teachings, the principles. i am not going to go on because of obvious reasons suffice to say that i am very happy.
It’s sorta like a woman, or a man, you break up.. as long as you have ill will or are overly concerned with that person they’ve GOT YOU!
 kinda the same thing happens with the organization, the fact that people dedicate entire pages to critique the WATCHTOWER ORG speaks volumes,
 Think you left the jw’s behind? think again, it is present with you always, as long as you are consumed with this subject you are a slave to the WATCHTOWER ORG.
You know when you are really over a gal? when you simple don’t care any more. the same applies here.
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 Truth says:

 October 11, 2013 at 4:21 am
 
The “blind” cannot see, the “deaf” cannot hear, the “heartless” cannot feel. How could you possibly be enlightened? Get behind me, satan.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 11, 2013 at 5:20 am
 
So, Kevin Kennedy. You are at ease with looking forward to Armageddon day when Jehovah murders the greater part of the human race for the refusal to believe and obey every diktat issued by the JW bosses. Where there is evil it should be exposed and brought to an end. That is why victims of Roman Catholic priestly pedophilia have worked for years to expose the crimes and bring the criminals to justice. That is why the hunt for Nazi war criminals continued for decades after WW2. It would be utterly irresponsible, knowing the misery and death caused by the repulsive JW cult, not to work towards its exposure and destruction. That you are seemingly content with hanging out in a disgusting and murderous outfit is utterly shocking. That you do not believe, even, every bit of ever changing doctrine spouted by your bosses means that they look forward to the day God murders you. To value an outfit that wishes you murdered suggests a very peculiar mindset indeed.
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 Faithful Witness says:

 October 11, 2013 at 7:24 am
 
Kevin, I agree with your advice about letting a past relationship keep hold on your life. I walked away from the JW’s and didn’t look back. I was not baptized, so it only hurt a little bit to break up with “friends” who only loved me when I went to meetings.
A problem arose, when my JW family started punishing me and my innocent children, simply because we had decided not to join the org with them. Our once big happy family, has become divided. This sad situation has sucked me back in!
I wish I could walk away and not look back, but God has forced me to make another u-turn and reach out for my parents, sister and most importantly, my niece and nephew, who are being forced into this. They have been ripped from our family and taught twisted things about their cousins. My nephew actually thinks we worship satan.
I agree that we should not let the WTS have any importance in our lives now. Until they release their grips on my family and the innocent children inside, I can not, as a believer in Christ, turn my back anymore. I love my JW family, despite what they are probably saying about me to their kids, after every meeting. The “us vs. them” doctrine is a scare tactic that they are using to control people. I hope your family is intact.
I’m glad you are happy as a JW. If it gives you peace and fulfillment, there is no reason for anyone to try to stop you from believing what you want. You were created with free will and the capability to make decisions for yourself. I wish you all the best, but try to be a little more compassionate. Jesus was. Are you familiar with the parable of the Good Samaritan?
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 11, 2013 at 8:03 am
 
‘I’m glad you are happy as a JW. If it gives you peace and fulfillment, there is no reason for anyone to try to stop you from believing what you want. ‘ said Faithful Witness of Kevon Jackson.
Are you serious? Jackson’s beliefs are the cause of your split family and heartache. Beliefs not acted upon may be harmless. But JW beliefs are acted upon, and are cruel in the case of shunning, and murderous in the case of blood transfusion. Those of us who know the evils of this cult have a duty to stop the spread of these poisonous and damaging beliefs.
If we followed the advice of Faithful Witness, however, we would write the following; ‘Well he belongs to Al Quaedr and the God issued command to engage in Jihad. If he wants to murder infidels, well that’s his belief’ or ‘ He likes to lynch negroes, but then he belongs to the Ku Klux Klan and those are his beliefs and that’s his business’. Or what about; ‘He’s a really dedicated Nazi and his beliefs demand that he work for the extermination of the Jews, Gays and Gypsies’.
No, Faithful Witness, where ‘beliefs’ as disgusting and damaging as those of the Ku Klux Klan, Al Quaedr, the JWs and Nazis are concerned, those of us who know about the evils of these organisations have a duty to expose them and campaign for their dissolution.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 11, 2013 at 8:13 am
 
‘You know when you are really over a gal? when you simple don’t care any more. the same applies here.’ wrote Kevin Jackson.
Do you really expect to be taken seriously? How many people have ex girlfriends who are responsible for thousands of deaths due to refusal of blood transfusion? How many ex girlfriends have left a global trail of split families through shunning in their wake? How many ex girlfriends have manipulated millions, through the dark arts of cult mind control, and convinced them that they are God’s appointed and that their every word must be obeyed on pain of death at Armageddon? How many ex girlfriends have caused millions of lives to be wasted through edicts about higher education, and left otherwise capable people to be exploited as unpaid mag. pushers for a global property corporation? My analogy with Nazi hunters is valid. Your analogy with ex girlfriends displays the mind rot needed to remain as a faithful member of a cruel mind control cult.
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 October 11, 2013 at 9:40 am
 
Rowland,
 Take a breath. This isn’t a war. I appreciate your thoughts, and I agree with some of what you said.
 I beg to differ. Kevin is a grown man, and actually is entitled to an opinion, and so are you, and me too. Everyone should be accountable for their own actions, whether they be shunning or accepting your family members, blindly following a false prophet because it feels good, or judging and using an anonymous forum to vent your frustrations on someone you don’t know anything about. Forgiveness goes a long way.
Judgment is not ours. Be compassionate. I think if he looks inside himself, Kevin will find he is missing something. There is no real peace for JW’s. But each has to make that decision for themselves. This is not a peaceful or loving religion, but if everyone around you is claiming to have peace, you believe it. He has never been out, and I commend him for looking at this website in the first place. He is examining the truth, whether he realizes it or not.
I find this website to be an expression of one man’s opinions, which I highly value. Cedars makes good observations. Are they complete and always in agreement with my personal beliefs? No. I am still willing to read and consider his viewpoint, since his life and exposure to this invasive group is much different than mine. We both have family we love, trapped inside the tower. This simple fact makes me keep tabs on what is happening with the JW’s.
As far as I know, there is not yet a member of the governing body posting comments here. We are all mere humans. I’m sorry if I offended you.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 11, 2013 at 9:51 am
 
Thanks for your thoughtful comment, Faithful Witness. Of course we are ‘entitled’ to an opinion. No law on earth, nor power of enforcement, can change what is inside our heads. If, however, those opinions are damaging and dangerous (like those of Nazis, Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Ku Klux Klan and Al Quaedr), those of us who are aware of the damage and danger have a duty to educate and, if possible, alter those opinions before they lead to lynchings, gassings, deaths through refusal of blood or car bombs. I am not happy that Kevin, or anyone else, is content through having been lulled into believing self righteous fantasies about surviving Armageddon to live on a Paradise Earth after God has murdered the rest of us. I too, hope that Kevin, and the 7 million other JWs, are released from the bondage of that malign cult. The campaign can work, both by informing rank and file JWs of their pitiable condition as unpaid mag. distributors for a global publishing and property corporation, as well as by chasing the bosses through the courts and hitting the organisation where it hurts, in the pocket.
Reply
 
 
 Gypsy Sam says:

 October 11, 2013 at 10:13 am
 
People have to awaken on their own and start having real questions that they want answered. Last year I had to answer where was the money coming from for Watchtower to pay out millions on the Candace Conti case…why was I constantly seeing JW’s act more uncaring about others, making comments on facebook to insult other religions, being excited about earthquakes and expressing no sorrow for lost lives at all…reconnecting with childhood JW friends that had left on their own accord because they discovered TTATT, yet being emotionally blackmailed by their families who will only love or accept them if they do it the WT way (not according to the actual Bible, or Jesus example of mercy)…why aren’t children abused by other JW’s and rape victims shown love in the congregation…
All this led me to this survey, which I am very grateful to Cedars for caring enough to make a difference.
 JW’s are awakening and it is beautiful to see some start to have a mind that is working and heart that is now unselfish and caring to all (not just those in their bubble of conformity).
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About JW Survey

A message from the founder of JWsurvey.org…
It is my pleasure to give you a warm welcome to JWsurvey.org. This website has been launched to give voice to millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world who would not normally have the opportunity to say what they really think about the Watch Tower Society, or the teachings and practices of the Governing Body.
The Governing Body has yet to express any interest in hearing the views of ordinary witnesses. Their mantra is: “We talk, you listen!”

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, or a former Witness, you will be aware that the opinions of rank and file publishers (and even elders) are rarely sought by the Society. The small number of men making up the Governing Body have declared themselves the “faithful and discreet slave” of Matthew 24:45, thus claiming sole control over the organization’s teachings and policies. These men are most certainly NOT interested in the opinions of the “silent majority” of Witnesses under their authority. If they are, they have a strange way of showing it!
This website seeks to redress that balance by means of an annual survey that is conducted anonymously throughout the world. The first survey was taken in 2011, and immediately attracted the opinions of 1,118 voters before closing at the end of the year. The results were posted to the Governing Body for their attention and review but, predictably, they never replied.
The following year, 2012, the survey received votes from 1,488 current and former Witnesses, most of whom expressed their concern at various Watchtower teachings. The remarkable events of that year (the Candace Conti case and the “new light” about the faithful slave) certainly seemed to get people talking. Subsequent surveys promise to attract even more attention as our website steadily grows in popularity.
A website for all
This site has been created and made available online so that anyone, whether they are a former or current Witness, or in some way associated with Witness friends or relatives, can give their honest opinions about the organization and its governance.
We adopt a strictly non-religious viewpoint, meaning that we refuse to promote any belief structure in particular. For this reason, we cannot be accused of trying to “draw off followers.” We are merely interested in garnering the views of ordinary Witnesses and reporting on the facts.
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses has not authorized or sponsored this survey, and it is run entirely without any influence or input from them. However, we genuinely feel that the brothers who serve on the Governing Body, having assumed such overwhelming responsibility, should take note of how ordinary Witnesses and the general public feel about their leadership, since millions of lives are affected by decisions they make at their private weekly meetings.
Who started this website?
I write under the name John Cedars. Until recently I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I left for conscientious reasons. You can read my story on this link.
I first had the idea to begin gathering the opinions of Jehovah’s Witnesses and their associates around the world because of a variety of issues that continue to be of real concern to me. I believe that ordinary Witnesses who devote their entire lives to loyally serving Jehovah, through what purports to be God’s spirit-directed organization, should have some say in the decisions that are made on their behalf.
It is my belief that not all is well within the organization, and many of the teachings and practices encouraged by the Governing Body are not formulated with the best interests of ordinary Witnesses at heart.
An unmerciful practice
For example, take the practice of shunning or “disfellowshipping.” The Apostle Paul’s words to the Corinthian congregation were as follows: “But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man… remove the wicked man from among yourselves.” (1 Cor 5:11,12)
Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians about the disfellowshipping arrangement never called for family members to be torn apart

Clearly the Apostle Paul was delivering this admonition for the purpose of keeping the congregation clean. But to what extent should these words be applied? By saying “not even eating with such a man,” Paul indicated that his words weren’t directed against family members (who would daily eat with one another), but against other brothers in the congregation with whom one might consider sharing a meal.
There is no reason to insist that the word “anyone” should be applied arbitrarily to “everyone,” irrespective of age or circumstances. Even Watchtower publications acknowledge that there should be some exceptions where family members are concerned. For example, a disfellowshipped husband is not to be shunned by his wife or children, and parents are not banned from speaking to their disfellowshipped children if they are not yet old enough to leave home. But why should it end there?
Many share my opinion that there is scope to extend even more mercy in applying this scripture than is currently encouraged by the teachings of the Governing Body. Jesus said the following to the unrighteous pharisees: “Go, then, and learn what this means: ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.” (Matthew 9:13, New World Translation)
Jesus identified mercy as playing a crucial role in the extent to which laws and principles should be enforced. Many do not think it is merciful that older teenagers, many of whom were baptized at an extremely young age, are forced out of their homes by their parents and then cruelly shunned, often for the rest of their lives, through a mistaken and abhorrent interpretation of the Apostle Paul’s advice.
The Society’s publications themselves warn that “no one should be forced to… choose between his beliefs and his family.” (July 2009 Awake!, p.9) However, they apply this reasoning to every religion but their own.
The scriptures clearly prescribe “shunning” purely as a measure for maintaining the spiritual cleanliness of the congregation, and not for the purpose of breaking up families. To go one step further and insist that shunning should also apply to families is both destructive and deeply unmerciful. It also violates the principle expressed by the Apostle Paul at 1 Timothy 5:8 where he said, “Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.”
These and other teachings of the Governing Body are increasingly becoming a cause of sincere distress for many Witnesses who wish that the organization could adopt a more merciful and loving stance. In particular, one can now be disfellowshipped as an “apostate” merely for disagreeing with the Governing Body over this or other issues.
Only human
It is my sincere desire that by means of this website, and its surveys, the Governing Body will humbly consider the pleas of both myself and like-minded ones around the world who long for the Watch Tower Society to be a more loving organization – one that is truly observant of the need for respect and tolerance toward other people’s beliefs.
The members of the Governing Body are only human, and no matter how much they may pray for wisdom and insight, they cannot possibly be fully aware of how their teachings and directives are impacting the lives of their fellow worshippers on a daily basis. That is what makes this survey website so important. It serves as a constant reminder for them to show greater kindness and mercy in undertaking the role that they have assumed as the faithful and discreet slave.
I would like to thank you in advance for your support for this site, and for getting involved in our important work.
Warmest regards,
 
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332 Responses to About JW Survey

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 Faithful Witness says:

 October 11, 2013 at 10:31 am
 
I agree with your mission of exposing and righting wrong, but the message has to be heard, if it is to make a difference. I find people are more likely to listen when you whisper, than when you yell.
 BTW, yelling at your computer screen itself, sometimes actually feels better than trying to put your passion for a cause in writing. Most people reading these comments will not hear you, either way. 😉
Kevin, keep examining the facts, and decide for yourself. The truth is out there.
Reply
 
 
 Kevin Kennedy says:

 October 11, 2013 at 6:25 pm
 
Rowland,
 When people become witnesses they know what they are getting into. not all family member are going to be happy specially when they start to see the changes people make.
Your comments are great for this site, very dramatic, i’ll get a tissue, wait….
Loose the drama, millions of families fave been happy serving for years, there is another side to this story, millions of other stories happy stories.
In my view it is my humble opinion that a person who lets an org a person control their mind is week, so maybe that’s the problem.
You just switch from one mind control to another, but they both are unhealthy relationships, these types of people need to jump on a cause. before they were for and now they are against.
Look at all the people that have a higher education today. local college of trade is much better than years of debt and no job to pay.
No one has been exploited. it’s called being on of Jehovah’s Witnesses. altruism.
No mind control here, I need my wonderful powerful mind to judge and evaluate, i don’t swallow everything i am told.
Do you believe everything you read and are told?
 I don’t, my family doesn’t, we don’t accept things just because of who said it /exception BIBLE.
Apparently you don’t need a mind either to be stuck in time, with all that negative energy complaining about people that are happily living their lives with no thought to you’re daily objections to them.
 Back to the significant other-☼As long as you care, yr hooked.
Reply
 
 
 Kevin Kennedy says:

 October 11, 2013 at 6:52 pm
 
I wish you and all who read me the best, from the bottom of my heart.
Parents are responsible for their children, a parent must have a grip on their children in order to protect them and shield them from harm.
People who are not Witnesses have a very different life, as you well know. Jw try to keep their children’s mind occupied with spiritual things, now you still believe in Christ Christendom style which is a theological topic which is not allowed here, but keep in mind that this God has 2 others just like him. that’s why the little nephew thinks that you worship you know who.
People look to associate with people who have similar interest, in order to bond but if you don’t have anything in common it’s kinda hard to work with that there.
But i do put myself in yr place/shoes and do understand.
 The children are being taken care of, they are being tough good things, so don’t worry about them.
Wish you all the best.
Reply
 
 
 Kevin Kennedy says:

 October 11, 2013 at 7:10 pm
 
Rowland
 I am at ease with looking forward to Armageddon day when Jehovah destroys the greater part of the human race for the refusal to believe.
I cant wait!
a wonderful loving organized group is warning people today before it happens so watch out, God ‘ll get cha for that as Maude Findley wld say.
Change is Good without change we wld still be without anesthesia.
 change in doctrine specially good, it means things are alive, anything that does not change is dead, look at the churches.
No body looks forward to the day when God murders me, are you crazy? That might be the thinking of the group you hang with, but my brothers admire me and love me because i am a wonderful beautiful person.
It’s like they take you into the back room of the hall and torture you until you tell them that you don’t believe every single word that comes from an imperfect human being. you may be right but i don’t think so, this is the real world, come outta that fantasy in ye head.
I’s mind control, look out!
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 11, 2013 at 7:20 pm
 
Wrong again, Kevin. I was 5 years old when first taken to the Kingdom Hall. I had no armoury of reason to combat JW murderous filth. It was not my decision to be subjected to JW horrors.
So, Kevin, if you imagine you choose to believe or disbelieve whatever the JW bosses spout, then, according to them you are dead meat. Jehovah will zap you at Armageddon. If, however, you are a content, happy and fulfilled true believer then you have to believe the lot, as issued by God’s exclusive earthly rep. since Day 1 in 1879.
So, Kevin – you, if you really are a true JW, believe this little lot:
Jehovah’s plan can be calculated by taking measurements from the Great Pyramid.
 Jehovah has no opinion on blood transfusion: Pre 1945.
 Jehovah will murder anyone who has a blood transfusion: post 1945.
 Jehovah is OK with blood fractions but will murder you if you donate any blood from which fractions are taken: 21st century.
 Jehovah approves of Christmas celebrations: pre 1925.
 Jehovah will murder you if you celebrate Christmas: post 1925.
 The Gov. Bod. are the Faithful and Discreet Slave as referred to by Jesus in Matt. 24.
 Armageddon will occur in 1914, 1925, 1941, 1975 and before the death of the 1914 generation.
If you are a JW you have to believe all the above, or Jehovah will murder you. Maybe you doubt some of them. If you do, Jehovah will murder you.
If you do believe all the above, presumably you are at ease and fulfilled with the idea that Jehovah will murder anyone who doubts.
You are a tragic victim of cult mind control; an unpaid mag. pusher for a global publishing and property corporation. So many nominal JWs write anonymously to JW Facebook pages to explain that they only keep up appearances of true belief in order not to lose their family through shunning.
Pre internet those of us who left the JWs were met with bewilderment when we explained our detestation of our erstwhile Alma Mater. JW PR was successful in presenting its image of polite and well dressed religious enthusiasts. Those days are over. Ex JWs are now organised. AAWA (go google) will not cease its campaign until your cult has abandoned its damaging practices of shunning, of its ban on blood transfusion, its protection of pedophiles and its terrorising of young minds with its Armageddon fantasies.
It should not be too much of a leap for JWdom to radically change its tune. Its grubby little history is a litany of doctrinal flip flops. If reform means curtains for your cult, so much the better. Get used, Kevin to the idea of life without a Kingdom Hall.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 11, 2013 at 7:26 pm
 
Change is, of course, good. Truth, however does not change. JW TRUTH is of a different order. It is anything and everything spouted by the JW bosses.
I note, Kevin, that you have swallowed the JW nonsense that your little late 19th century Adventist spinoff sect is no part of Christendom. JWs are part of Christendom, a singularly ugly little part. JWs are also part of the world, one of its worst aspects.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 11, 2013 at 11:05 pm
 
Dispute an edict or diktat issued by your New York bosses, Kevin, and you will be excommunicated from your little fringe church of Christendom and shunned by all those who now profess to love you. Why should anyone believe the stuff spouted by a bunch of old men in New York who claim, with zero evidence, that they are God’s exclusive earthly rep.? Do you, Kevin, have any evidence to connect the JW bosses with the ‘Faithful and Discreet Slave’ of Matthew 24? I have asked dozens of JWs for evidence. None has supplied any. The reason is simple. There is no evidence. And the track record of these would be spouters of TRUTH? Duff prophecy, doctrinal flip flops, deaths through refusal of blood, protection of pedophiles, lost educational opportunities and split families through shunning. And you, Kevin Kennedy, expect people to believe and follow your organisation. The skids are under your outfit now. Wait for the string of child abuse cover up cases to hit the headlines. The fraudulent nature of your grubby little fringe cult of Christendom will be common knowledge. The dropout rate of born in JWs is already, at c. 66%, the biggest in Christendom. This can only increase. The size and determination of the group determined to smash the Watchtower can only grow. Get used to the idea of a world where the JWs follow the Buchanites, the 5th Monarchy Men, the Millerites, Taborites and Joachimites into the graveyard of CHristendom’s apocalyptic loony groups.
Reply
 
 
 Kevin Kennedy says:

 October 12, 2013 at 1:17 am
 
I am not there to dispute or argue, when if that day ever comes I’m outta there that’s all, Try to take control of any group causing division and you most probably will be canned.
Shunned but loved, you punish yr children so then can feel the difference and take note. i don’t believe in the old men you are referring to. But what i have learned so far is right on!
You asked me what i believe and i will tell you, the faithful slave is connected to Jehovah’s witnesses, the truth about what the bible teaches jw have it down.
The thinking out loud and the conjectures of Humans to not negate the facts. i am not going to list the differences between the warring churches and the Christians
 about the churches and the command to not be part of the world
Can you tell a Christendom Cristian from a non believer, no you cant, but you can spot a jw a mile away.
You need some kind of evidence the JW teach the truth from the bible?
I am not going to suggest the obvious.
The difference is starring you in the face u just cant see it.
The biggest thing for me was the a political view of the witnesses bible based for sure.
The doctrinal flip flops have had to do with time periods. the same things happens in science and everywhere people keep learning and we can never know too much specially about Jehovah GOD
The deaths for refusing to disobey God specially when yr close to death, when yr dying that’s not the time to start ignoring God’s law and today blood transfusions are considered old school. who whats someone elses waist pulsing through yr cells. blood is special only made for that person don’t touch it, leave it alone.
Pedophiles are everywhere gotta watch the kids at all times don’t trust anyone period, and if anyone touches my kids they have a problem with me if find out about it first, that unfortunately is part of the degradation this wrld is going through before it is destroyed glory hallelujah! oh Glory!
Drop out rate you say, answer not true, how can you know that, unless yr the long island medium.
Don’t hate, congratulate.
And you tell me there is a big growing group who’s sole purpose in life is to destroy the wt? pretty sad don’t u think to be wasting all that energy on something so negative as destroying the wt, you thing they will succeed? i don’t think so.
Listen if Hitler and Fidel were not able to get rid of JW’S no mickey mouse group will either.
Listen mr, the witnesses have been without the WATCHTOWER decades in some countries and when the vail is lifted the amount of people that study and meet with the witnesses is impressive. so we need Jesus that’s all we need. it seems that the more people persecute these winners the better they get.
Reply
 
 
 Kevin Kennedy says:

 October 12, 2013 at 1:54 am
 
of course truth changes, we thought the world was flat for us that was the truth at that time.
We cant walk in space for us that was the truth at one time
 So the truth changes as we are prepared to assimilate it in time. that will be 50 dollars.
The truth is the information that we have about any given subject at that time.
I don’t swallow the nonsense repeated by you about the witnesses, and what ever names you wish to call them in a demeaning fashion. That is a desperate attempt to be mean spirited and hateful, good luck with that there.
Jw are very different and are no part of the churches of today that call themselves followers of Christ.
Gotta clean out the world to make way for the few the proud the worshipers of JEHOVAH! a small group but a rowdy one.
Life without kingdom hall is the way i grew up my friend.
We meet anywhere and everywhere even in the nazi concentration camps the witnesses that were there meet and had worship right there under the guards noses.
You Guys seem to think that Christians are wimps, were rough and were tough, and we are rugged. air conditioning ans actual seats to sit on please!
we meat in the swamp in the dark.
 Magazine WATCHTOWER
rarely seen, but many bible study and a lot of attendance at the clandestine meetings
What else, i am mind controlled, that is because i don’t agree if i were to agree then you wld be controlling my beautiful precious mind.
And Just because we worship God in peace and preach the good news to others you hate me, how could you hate me? nobody hates the big K,
Listed ROLND, chill, relax.
 The watchtower really did a number on you child!
There are great mental health providers that can help you with that watchtower issue that you have there.
Must be pretty uncomfortable having to write down and relive all that negativity but you seem to enjoy the emotional pain reliving it time after time, judging it, discussing it tarring it apart, turning it around in yr head day after day, after day, thinking of the next posting, because you got something you just gotta say and answer back. obsession is a perfume.
Go to sleep relax pay to JAH
 i’ll party i mean pray for you
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior, formerly known as George says:

 October 12, 2013 at 4:18 am
 
We are not out to get rid of witnesses. I don’t want to see any witness harmed or impeded in their worship.
I want to see healthy debate. I want to see a leadership that takes reasonable and morally helpful decisions.
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 October 12, 2013 at 5:43 am
 
I’m sure you have heard, “you will know them by their fruits…”
This has many applications and applies to everyone. One question for you, the same as I asked my mom:
 How many new baptized members do you have in your congregation, as a result of the house to house ministry? How many service hours does your congregation report each month?
 I would like to suggest that the field ministry work you are doing, is almost fruitless. It is busy work, behavior control. I know you are doing this at your own free will, but have you ever considered that there might be a better way to serve the master? If you are a follower of Christ, you should be his servant and serving the least of his brothers. He never said only serve JW’s… He instructed his sheep to feed the hungry and help the poor.
With that said, I want to express my appreciation for your heartfelt expressions here. You are clearly a devout JW. Your thoughts and opinions do matter.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 12, 2013 at 6:23 am
 
Kevin. Youyr state of mind is desperate. Yes, there are pedophiles in every walk of life. JWdom, however, is unique in that it uses the Bible, with its 2 Witness rule, to protect them.
You clearly do not understand the doctrine of JWdom. According to your bosses the only route to salvation is through the Faithful and Discreet Slave, the old geezers in New York. If you do not accept their authority as absolute then you are an apostate and, although I wish you health and happiness, your JW bosses look forward to the day God murders you at Armageddon.
 Yes, many scientific theories change. But JW TRUTHS are presented as immutable, God given and absolute. The JW TRUTHS you have to believe, on pain of Armageddon execution today, may be binned by your New York bosses tomorrow. Had you received blood fractions in the 1950s that would have merited an Armageddon zapping (at an Armageddon due before the end of last century incidentally!).
 You are also, Kevin, defying the JW bosses by engaging with apostates. You do not seem to realise that you have elected to belong to an absolute dictatorship of the mind. Loads of cults and sects have come and gone in Christendom. Your little Adventist spinoff’s days are numbered.
When there is a threat to human happiness, or indeed to human life, those who know of the threat have a duty to fight it. That threat may come from terrorists, disease, malign religious cults or criminals. The Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses mean business. The WTBTS has got loads of money, certainly and can buy expensive lawyers. Along with the dark arts of cult mind control have come the techniques for exploiting a gullible unpaid mag. distribution labour force. If the Candace Conti fine is exemplary, then a series of convictions could make a serious dent in JW finances. Recruitment outside Africa has stalled. When the cash dries up the WBTS will go into liquidation. Bring on that happy day!
It is interesting to note that you, Kevin, have given no evidence for any of the ever changing TRUTHS spouted by your bosses. I have listed a number of absurd pronouncements. You have listed no positive JW achievements or insights whatever. There is a simple reason for that. There are none.
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 October 12, 2013 at 5:39 pm
 
Excelsior: I agree! I would like JW’s to be able to express their opinions and speak their minds, like anyone else. They should be allowed to form their own opinions and maybe even their own beliefs! Independent thoughts from a JW, would be most refreshing. I hope that any thinking JW will take the few minutes to complete the anonymous survey, which is the purpose of this site… Giving the JW’s a voice! http://www.jwsurvey.org
 No one has to know you were here… Your thoughts do matter, even if you’re not allowed to doubt out loud.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 13, 2013 at 4:43 am
 
We at AAWA, the Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses owe a debt of gratitude to Kevin Kennedy. His posts are a ghastly illustration of the mental damage wrought by the behaviour of the Watchtower Society. He has confirmed, in his comment above, that he looks forward to the Day of Armageddon when his God will murder the greater part of the human race, for the refusal to follow, blindly and absolutely, every diktat issued by the Gov. Bod. of the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
These 8 self appointed, controlling, arrogant and money grabbing old men head an outfit which has the following ‘achievements’ to its credit (debit?):
1. It is responsible for thousands of unnecessary deaths, including those of children, for its ban on blood transfusion.
2. It has a Bible based policy for protecting pedophiles.
3. It has caused thousands of families to be irrevocably split due to its edicts on shunning.
4. It is the cause of countless Armageddon filled nightmares.
5. It has a issued a series of duff prophecies.
6. It associated with the United Nations, which it had condemned as the Whore of Babylon, before its cover was blown.
I have asked many JWs to list the positive achievements of their cult. There have been none forthcoming.
Kevin Kennedy genuinely believes that the majority of humanity deserve the death penalty for not following blindly every pronouncement of the leaders of this obscene and hideous outfit. Like other JWs, he can name no positive achievements of the misery making corporation to which he has sacrificed his life.
 Ultimately, Kevin Kennedy, I wish you well; I wish you freedom from the clutches of the criminal old geezers in New York. Rest assured, however, that your pronouncements in the meantime are of great service to the movement that looks forward to, and is working towards, your cult’s implosion.
Reply
 
 
 KEVIN KENNEDY says:

 October 13, 2013 at 10:09 am
 
Rowland,
You seem to be under the wrong impression.
 The watchtower was established disseminate Jehovah God’s message mainly in print.
We don’t obey every opinion emitted by our dear brothers of the governing body,
►they have their mouths right under their nose just like everybody else. they are not profits and we all know that, JW don’t believe in modern day prophecies
Due to this wonderful selfless work, directed by the angels of Jah many people have become literate.
They have been freed from the fear of the dead, the fear of burning in hell and now are free to worship Jah.
When the WATCHTOWER PRESSES, Go Bankrupt, and or are destroyed by Rowland’s group of people will the witnesses disappear
 -OH HAPPY DAY FOR ROWLAND!?
 not so fast.
Picture iT WALKILL 2099, The Watchtower edifice is Gone!
 The printing pressed are silent, a mouse urinating on a cotton ball can be heard. To witnesses meet secretly, one has a copy of the bible, the other ink for the home pressed now being used in local neighborhoods, the work of Jehovah’s witnesses have gone underground.
But danger lurks all around the people who used to write about a HAPPY DAY without the WITNESSES have actually organized into bands of armed men and women who are busy dragging witnesses family out of their homes and making an example of the in front of the public at large. The meetings are still held and the preaching still goes on, the memorial is still held every year.
Is this a fantasy? this would never happen in the good old us of a , ah but it has happened, it happened in here in the US OF A-.
And ROWLAND , my friend here you are proposing to exterminate the JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES once more just like it happened in the past.
We don’t depend on a governing Body or printing presses
 we depend on Christ.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 13, 2013 at 11:09 am
 
Thank you for confirming, Kevin Kennedy, the points I have been making. Your bosses repeat over the years that they and their organisation are the only route to salvation, the only channel to God. You clearly do not believe a fundamental tenet of your cult. You are desperate to imagine you are a free agent. Your bosses tell you the organisation is indispensable; you declare you can do without it.http://carm.org/religious-movements/jehovahs-witnesses/quotes-regarding-watchtower-organization-and-salvation
Either way, whichever is describing the real situation, you have given no reason why anyone should want anything to do with an outfit whose soul effects have been unnecessary deaths from refusal of blood, a string of duff prophecies, wasted lives through the disapproval of education and split families through shunning. You have, in your many and lengthy posts, not only failed to answer any criticisms, but have failed to offer any reason why anyone should want anything to do with an outfit whose record is disgraceful, negative, misery making and murderous.
Quite possibly, as you point out, the end of the JW org. may not be the end of the history of Christendom’s apocalyptic lunacy. Adventists, after all, regrouped after the Millerites dispersed, and the JWs and the David Koresh gang broke away from the Adventists. The 5th Monarchy Men were not the last group of English apocalyptic wackoes. We can only hope that, in time, the whole cruel nonsense will go the way of armed crusades, witch and heretic burning and the other monstrosities that litter the history of Christendom.
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 October 13, 2013 at 11:21 am
 
Kevin said, “We don’t obey every opinion emitted by our dear brothers of the governing body…”
Can you provide one example of an “opinion” you have disobeyed, aside from visiting and commenting on this website?
Reply
 
 
 KEVIN KENNEDY says:

 October 13, 2013 at 11:52 am
 
Rowland
Life isn’t black or white,
 You want to pigeonhole me into a box to accommodate you and yr distorted view of the witnesses.
The only way to salvation is doing Gods will and JW’S are doing it.
 so it is best to be with those.
You are desperate to discredit anything that is true, i declare we had done without the organization as you think as you see. but we are still with you.
One wants to be with this group specially for the things you point out.
they adhere to Gods written law of Blood.
 They don’t allow corruption to infiltrate the Cong.
 People who violate God’s law and refuse to correct this after many chances are expelled, again bible based. but we cant discuss that because number one you don’t care about that we do and secondly it’s against the rules of this site.
The prophecy’s you talk about era imagenery in yr head.
 yr just mindlessly repeating what you read.
►ROWLAND Just to let you in on something you probably do not know . They don’t believe in prophets today, and they have stated this in the literature.
so we got rid of one misunderstanding now, so now you know this that you dis not know before. lets see what else
I do not have to give reasons why should be with an outfit such as this as you say, the purpose here is to give reasons why you shouldn’t and i will dispel them and tell you the real truth about things.
Every time you say an untruth I’ll be there to correct you.
Reply
 
 
 KEVIN KENNEDY says:

 October 13, 2013 at 12:01 pm
 
Faithful Witness says:
 October 13, 2013 at 11:21 am
Kevin said, “We don’t obey every opinion emitted by our dear brothers of the governing body…”
Can you provide one example of an “opinion” you have disobeyed, aside from visiting and commenting on this website?
______________
Sure i dont know the level of knowledge that you have on the jw’s i will elaborate, since 1935 JW’S came to understand more clearly that not all go to heaven, so they thought or put out there in the mags and books that the number was complete and no more anointed were being chosen for heaven.
One of the GB when on to say in the WATCHTOWER,
“NO MORE INCORPORATION”
According to what you would have US believe, it would be unthinkable that one of Jehovah’s witnesses would do something the GB has said you dont need to do.
So now new memorial partakers!!!!
 is that what happened?
look at the statistics…
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 13, 2013 at 12:51 pm
 
Thank you, Kevin Kennedy for failing to address a single point I made and thus demonstrating yet again the tragic state of mind of a true believing JW.
You mentioned Jehovah’s Law of blood. Can you tell me why Jehovah keeps changing his mind on this law?
Why does a pure congregation take special care, using a verse from Deuteronomy, to protect pedophiles within its ranks?
I attended the Kingdom Hall regularly in the 1950s and was assured that the 1914 generation would not pass before the advent of Armageddon.
It is clear, that you not only choose to defy your New York bosses, but you have very little idea about what it is JWdom actually stands for. Presumably you just drift along there out of habit and enjoy the feeling of superiority.
I do not expect any answers with information or reasoned argument. You have demonstrated that of both you are incapable. Doorstep preaching is pretty ineffectual even when conducted by the articulate. It is some consolation that your rambling drivel is highly unlikely to ensnare anyone into your cult. My thanks to you once again for providing a public demonstration of the tragic state of mind of a JW true (or maybe untrue) believer.
Reply
 
 
 KEVIN KENNEDY says:

 October 13, 2013 at 1:27 pm
 
Rowland,
My boss is not in ny, they moved to walkill,.. no just kidding, he’s up in the sky above watching you so look out!
First let me correct you again because yr unbelievably confused. number one, our dear beloved brothers who compose our beloved and respected governing body, as holy as you might think they are, there not JEHOVAH.
And about pedophiles, let’s clear up one more thing so pay attention, If you were informed of, or if you caught some one in the act of molesting abusing yr child, you would calmly call the elders, have them set up a meeting with you and, are you kidding me? for real!!!
Hey Guys wake up!! the congregation has little to do with this, this is s legal matter. if later the matter is addressed by the elders i really dont care personally if i was in that case God help me.
Remember that the elders children are also at risk of molestation, and it’s not just one elder, in many cases there are 8 elders in a congregation, whole families are at risk from this predator so take that into account when you accuse them of protecting such and such.
If you believed that before any date in time the end wld come, yr mind is week and foolish this is not what you have learned from the boss upstairs in heaven, actually it is just the contrary, so look upon it as a test that you failed miserably.
I have constantly demonstrated that you are not acting in good faith in these discussions, get ready to be challenged by this humble servant of yours and Christ in the stamens that you make that are false.
Don’t Get mad because i showed you up- Rowland
 Yr idea of a discussion dis not go yr way because i speak the truth fairly, i recognize the things that have gone wrong as far as dates just like it has been recognized in print.
I recognize that the disfellowshiping is very heart breaking, any sin breaks families.
If you don’t agree with the teachings of this group leave it’s that simple, you dont even have to be disfelloowshiped do it yr self, stop doing what they do.
Go with some dignity that it.
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 October 13, 2013 at 5:47 pm
 
Kevin, you are being misled.
 You said, “The only way to salvation is doing Gods will and JW’S are doing it.
 so it is best to be with those.”
Who told you that?
Reply
 
 
 DJ says:

 October 13, 2013 at 7:08 pm
 
Do all Jehovah Witnesses Blackmale and Threaten young Children .That God will hate them
 My oldest grandson found a toy in Kitimat BC Kingdom Hall .That another parent brought along for their young child to play with .My Grandson found it played with it a bit . My Daughter Boyfriends adopted so called mother .Told my oldest grandson .Who is Autism .That GOD will HATE HIM ..It was my grandson who really wanted to go to Church .Now after this woman said this to him .He has never went back to this Kingdom Hall .Nor does he want anything to do with this woman .
 Please keep in mind I am a Christian Woman .Our Bodies are God’s Temples and Our Hearts should be God’s Church .Jesus tell us all To love one another .God gave us all the same 10 rules to OBEY HIM
 This women I tell you about .Has also tried hard to steel both my Daughters boys .and wants my Daughter to give her child to her adopted Daughter yet tell my Daughters youngest boy ..( quoting my grandson words here .This 1 is only 5 years old – He told his mom .You are not my real mom .Gramma is my real mom .And I only have to list to her and dad .) Yet this woman is Jehovah Witnesses .Claims she has never had SEX with her Husband .So how sick is this ? Huh is these the kicks of sick things you practice on little peoples heads and Brain washing them .GOD”S Wrath will give this woman night mares and others too if this is being done to young ones .For all children belong to God and come from God .For killing them and not helping them when needed .Now you are all warned
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 13, 2013 at 7:49 pm
 
Kevin Kennedy is a contradiction in terms. He pretends he is a Jehovah’s WItness, but ignores all that they teach him about the Faithful and Discreet Slave being the only route to salvation. He also claims to be unaware that the JW bosses have regularly come out with dates for Armageddon. OK, so this guy, and fellow loonies, may well continue with some self centred Armageddon fantasies in their heads after the WT Establishment goes belly up. Whether any will form a global publishing coy. and mind control cult on a similar scale is, though, open to question. JWs have already been found guilty, in the Candace Conti case, of neglecting their duty to children. Presumably Kevin Kennedy will pretend that this case and the others to follow are as fictional as he wants to imagine JW Armageddon date setting has been. The JW bosses, of course, will wish Kevin an Armageddon death for imagining he can bypass their authority and get straight to the Big Man in the Sky without their exclusive mediation. If the JW bosses knew of Kevin Kennedy’s apostacy he would be disfellowshipped.
Reply
 
 
 KEVIN KENNEDY says:

 October 14, 2013 at 7:31 am
 
To rowland:
Wrong one more Mr Ro.
 I have demonstrated time and again that yr accusations are desperate and baseless, you have entered into yr own world. awake!.
You expect people to act and behave according to that story in yr head, and when that does not happen you get frustrated. too bad for you.
According to the faithful and discrete slave of our lord Jesus, the only way to salvation is what Jesus said, read IT.
I am aware of the dates, they were not prophetic words like the evangelicals.
►JW dont believe in modern day prophets
 so there is another of yr baseless arguments down
lets continue:
The ignorance you display is daunting, Christians dont depend on a printing press to organize and worship God Jehovah. this has been demonstrated all around the world in places where the truth is banned.
ONE MORE FALLACY DOWN, LETS CONTINUE:
 There are many printing presses and witnesses around the worls that do the same as the central office at brooklyn.
As a matter of fact and just so you know. just a little bit of inside news you might not be aware of–
The printing of the mags and books, are being transferred to different zones, there is one in mexico to handle Latin America, another in Australia, and so on.
Decentralization of the org.
The case you keep referring to the legal case,
 If someone abuses yr child, you go to the police first supposedly, or you go find the pedophile first, but what kind of parents sit around waiting for the elders to do what?–JUST THINK ABOUT IT- this is all a smoke screen, a non existent issue, I’ll tell you why.
Any parent that finds out that there child has been abused and goes to the elders of the cong instead of calling the police is a, fill in the blank.
rowland you are so lost, how did you ever get so messed up?
 because of the witnesses .
 that just proves the point .
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 October 14, 2013 at 7:35 am
 
Kevin, I have a question for you.
You say “JW dont believe in modern day prophets”
Please could you tell me who are the “two prophets” spoken of in Revelation 11:10?
I look forward to your answer.
Cedars
Reply
 
 
 
 KEVIN KENNEDY says:

 October 14, 2013 at 7:47 am
 
Cedar, this question implies n answer that would violate the rules of the site if i understood them correctly.
The question you pose, does not pertain to my statement.
It is repeated time and time again mindlessly, with out reasoning about it that JW are prophets and that whatever they might say in the literature about any future happening is a prophecy from them. nothing can be further from the truth.
Jw teach that no human today is able to prophesy, reason for this:
 is all written already in the bible.
very simple one more lie down.
Now you can say that i am a troll and am trolling around that yr favorite excuse to kick people out just like you have done in the past.
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 October 14, 2013 at 8:17 am
 
Don’t be silly. The answer would not violate the rules of the site. I am asking you who Watchtower identifies as being the “two prophets” – not giving you license to indoctrinate people. I discuss Watchtower doctrine all the time but am clearly not indoctrinating anyone.
If you don’t answer the question you will prove yourself to be a troll.
Reply
 
 
 
 KEVIN KENNEDY says:

 October 14, 2013 at 7:50 am
 
Faithfullwitness
 Who told you that?
Reply
 
 
 KEVIN KENNEDY says:

 October 14, 2013 at 8:07 am
 
Faithful Witness says:
 October 13, 2013 at 11:21 am
Kevin said, “We don’t obey every opinion emitted by our dear brothers of the governing body…”
Can you provide one example of an “opinion” you have disobeyed, aside from visiting and commenting on this website?
——————————————
Sure, I’ll provide you with one big example, i dont know how familiar you are with JW teachings but from the looks of things here, i will elaborate.
In 1935 JW came to a clearer understanding about heaven, they understood that a small representative group of people wld go to heaven.
They thought that this calling was more or less coming to an end, closed, a member of the governing body went as far to say
 NO MORE IN CORPORATIONS!!-
So according to you guys here, it wld be unfathomable for a JW to go against the GB especially in this occasion especially in front of all when all eyes are upon you at that moment.
According to what you would have us believe all memorial participation stopped!! on a dime.
IS THAT WHAT HAPPENED?
 CHECK THE STATISTICS.
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 October 14, 2013 at 12:06 pm
 
Kevin: So, are you telling us that you are partaking of the memorial emblems? I think you misunderstood my question.
You said, “We don’t obey every opinion emitted by our dear brothers of the governing body…”
Can you provide one example of an “opinion” YOU have disobeyed, aside from visiting and commenting on this website?
Also still wondering about your statement: “The only way to salvation is doing Gods will and JW’S are doing it. so it is best to be with those.”
Who told you that was the way? Who said JWs are doing God’s will? Do you know what Jesus actually said about this? (John 14:6)
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 14, 2013 at 12:10 pm
 
The Watchtower outfit has been convicted and fined in the case of Candace Conti. Its Bible based 2 witness rule is illegal. JWs have made prophecies. That they say they do not believe in modern prophecy is simply another of their crazy contradictions.
You want to believe, Kevin, that as a JW, you have a direct line to Jesus. You do not. Your bosses demand that you approach JC through his earthly sole agent, the New York (or Warwick County) bosses.
I presume you have devoted so much of your life, your time and your energy as an unpaid mag. distributor for that corrupt cult that you have to try and convince yourself that JW TRUTH is true.
You are defying them anyway by interacting on this site with apostates so your bosses for whom you have contributed your time, money and energy, will consider you dead meat anyway. It is tragic, I realise, that you have nowhere else to go.
I hope that when the Watchtower falls, or you recover from your pathetic delusion, Kevin kennedy, that you find a meaningful and contented way of life. Millions of ex JWs have done just that and there will be plenty of support when you wake up.
Best wishes.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 14, 2013 at 1:04 pm
 
When I was a JW, back in the 1950s, a pre 1914 baptism was the cutoff date for admission to the 144000 and participation in the Memorial. In my Leigh on Sea congregation there were two old ladies and one old gent who qualified. That the ‘heavenly admission’ and Memorial partaking rules have changed is simply par for the crazy JW TRUTH course. Truth, as commonly understood is fixed and immutable. JW TRUTH is of a totally different order. It is anything and everything, no matter how wacky, spouted by the JW bosses. Where this Kevin Kennedy guy has picked up the notion that you can be both a freelance communicant with Jesus and a JW I have not a clue.
My mad mum was the only baptised JW in my family. I did not thus suffer the agonising traumas of escape suffered by some in the ex JW community. Like Kevin, and his delusion that you can be a JW and bypass the bosses, my mother had a similar delusion. She imagined that being an unwashed and unkempt scruff made her super Holy. She was defiantly blind to the JW dress code even when it cost her the ‘privilege’ of door knocking. She was proud to announce, however, that she was still permitted to distribute magazines to neighbours and acquaintances.
JWdom attracts a whole hot of the vulneable, biddable, depressed and downright deranged. Kevin Kennedy is simply one more tragic example.
Reply
 
 
 KEVIN KENNEDY says:

 October 14, 2013 at 8:55 pm
 
fAITHFULLWITNESS:
Yes that is what i am telling you and i dont think you grasped it, basically they said the number of the anointed was complete.
At the age of 15 the GB was a big deal to me, they were it. basically they did not know what they were saying on this issue.
I partook and everybody else who felt they needed to did, so that is a big example of something that cant get more important.
The JW did not go along with the program on that, people still partook whatever the GB SAID.
Reply
 
 
 KEVIN KENNEDY says:

 October 14, 2013 at 9:02 pm
 
Cedars commented on About JW Survey.
in response to KEVIN KENNEDY:
Cedar, this question implies n answer that would violate the rules of the site if i understood them correctly. The question you pose, does not pertain to my statement. It is repeated time and time again mindlessly, with out reasoning about it that JW are prophets and that whatever they might say in the literature […]
Don’t be silly. The answer would not violate the rules of the site. I am asking you who Watchtower identifies as being the “two prophets” – not giving you license to indoctrinate people. I discuss Watchtower doctrine all the time but am clearly not indoctrinating anyone.
If you don’t answer the question you will prove yourself to be a troll.
——-__________________________
I dont do well with threats, you just lost the answer i was prepared to give you, maybe yr just very young and don’t know how to speak with people, but that’s not the way to deal with me.
i expected no less, you did not disappoint
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 October 14, 2013 at 11:25 pm
 
You don’t get it, do you Kevin?
I have a duty to keep JWsurvey free from trolls so that it can be enjoyed by all.
I asked you a simple question, and you refused to answer it simply because you know full well the answer contradicts what you have said elsewhere on this page.
This proves to me that you are not interested in genuine debate but only in pursuing your own agenda.
Henceforth you are banned from commenting on JWsurvey.
Reply
 
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 October 14, 2013 at 9:41 pm
 
Kevin, are you of the anointed class?
 Do you believe that your works (“doing God’s will”) are the only way to get you into heaven?
 We are blessed to have someone of your standing, commenting on this blog! What are your thoughts on Jesus’ words at John 14:6?
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 October 14, 2013 at 10:21 pm
 
Kevin, If you were 15 in 1935, then you are now age 93. Is that correct?
 Also, what year was the GB formed?
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 15, 2013 at 12:30 am
 
Like the founder of JW Survey, I too support free speech. It is a pity that Kevin Kennedy was unable to appreciate this freedom and used this site to try and convince himself that free thought and being a Jehovah’s Witness were compatible. If nothing else, his failure to answer questions and his illogical and twisted state of mind were a useful example to any observers, of the tragic inner turbulence that must possess so many practising and indeed, inactive but believing, JWs.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 18, 2013 at 2:34 pm
 
No, Kevin Kennedy, you do not understand TRUTH. Truth is, by definition, unchanging. Scientific ideas about the nature of the universe are not presented as Truth, merely the most likely, bearing in mind current evidence.
JWdom’s lies have left a whole load of misery in their wake. Advocates for God’s laws, Biblical or otherwise, always claim that they represent the unchanging, immutable and eternal, unaffected by human discovery or fashion. That is the line taken by Christian anti women priest types and Christian gay bashers. It is also the line taken by that most grubby little corner of Christendom, that blight on the world, the Church of Jehovah’s Witnesses. The old geezers who run it, who would wish Kevin Kennedy a divine murder at Armageddon for defying their authority and interacting with apostates, present their bilge as unchanging, immutable God issued TRUTHS. God thus approves and disapproves of Christmas celebrations, approves and disapproves of blood transfusions, will and will not do his Armageddon before the end of the 20th century.
The old geezers who run the corrupt global publishing and property corporation known as the Watchtower Society, have claimed, with zero evidence, that they are the Faithful and Discreet Slave as mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 24. Their entire authority rest upon this ridiculous claim.
So don’t worry Kevin Kennedy. The fact that a bunch of self righteous, self appointed, self serving and controlling old farts in the US think you deserve the death penalty, means nothing whatever. If you really enjoy going to dreary little meeting halls, listening to boring talks and reading awful mags while wearing a boring suit, there need be no laws to prevent you; feel free and carry on. Rest assured, though, that AAWA will not cease its campaign until JWdom has binned its murderous blood policy, packed up shunning those who disagree with its bosses, stopped protecting pedophiles, and no longer terrifies kids and others with its Armageddon nonsense.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 18, 2013 at 9:54 pm
 
Sorry! 2 omissions from the above.
1. AAWA will continue to highlight, until binned, JW demonisation of higher education.
2. As well as the JW features mentioned, feel free to continue enjoying the most uninspiring and dull music in Christendom.
Reply
 
 
 Voice_of_Reason says:

 October 24, 2013 at 12:06 am
 
Some of the most wonderful people I have ever met were JWs when I used to go to meetings in the 70s/80s. Rowland Nelken presents some sound arguments and counter-arguments but his vitriol against all Witnesses is grossly unfair. We should remember Psalm 118.8 about ‘putting your trust in mortal man’ when thinking of the GB, for so long as they are alive on this Earth, they are unquestionably ‘mortal men.’ We should remember that one of Christ’s first actions when he went unto his ‘Father’s House’ in Jerusalem, was to throw out the traders and criticise the Scribes and Pharisees: those charged with the spiritual welfare of his ‘flock.’ I am not saying that GB members are of this class but, as a lovely, humble old JW (elder) once said to me: “There could be a few surprises come Judgement Day.” JWs or not, let all of us Christians put our trust in God and Christ. Amen
Reply
 
 
 Liam Smith says:

 October 25, 2013 at 5:40 am
 
Your comments in my opinion come across as rather judgmental.
 I agree with you in that this is the organisation God is using but the way you expressed this to the author of this website was somewhat over the top brother.
 God’s spirit is indeed asked for in directing matters but in some cases the elders with their eyes wide open choose a very unchristian way to express themselves to congregation members even though they are clearly aware of the spirits operation. These men will indeed bring in upon themselves the justice they deserve in treating God’s sheep with disdain and contempt especially when sheep that are stumbled walk away from God.
Reply
 
 
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A message from the founder of JWsurvey.org…
It is my pleasure to give you a warm welcome to JWsurvey.org. This website has been launched to give voice to millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world who would not normally have the opportunity to say what they really think about the Watch Tower Society, or the teachings and practices of the Governing Body.
The Governing Body has yet to express any interest in hearing the views of ordinary witnesses. Their mantra is: “We talk, you listen!”

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, or a former Witness, you will be aware that the opinions of rank and file publishers (and even elders) are rarely sought by the Society. The small number of men making up the Governing Body have declared themselves the “faithful and discreet slave” of Matthew 24:45, thus claiming sole control over the organization’s teachings and policies. These men are most certainly NOT interested in the opinions of the “silent majority” of Witnesses under their authority. If they are, they have a strange way of showing it!
This website seeks to redress that balance by means of an annual survey that is conducted anonymously throughout the world. The first survey was taken in 2011, and immediately attracted the opinions of 1,118 voters before closing at the end of the year. The results were posted to the Governing Body for their attention and review but, predictably, they never replied.
The following year, 2012, the survey received votes from 1,488 current and former Witnesses, most of whom expressed their concern at various Watchtower teachings. The remarkable events of that year (the Candace Conti case and the “new light” about the faithful slave) certainly seemed to get people talking. Subsequent surveys promise to attract even more attention as our website steadily grows in popularity.
A website for all
This site has been created and made available online so that anyone, whether they are a former or current Witness, or in some way associated with Witness friends or relatives, can give their honest opinions about the organization and its governance.
We adopt a strictly non-religious viewpoint, meaning that we refuse to promote any belief structure in particular. For this reason, we cannot be accused of trying to “draw off followers.” We are merely interested in garnering the views of ordinary Witnesses and reporting on the facts.
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses has not authorized or sponsored this survey, and it is run entirely without any influence or input from them. However, we genuinely feel that the brothers who serve on the Governing Body, having assumed such overwhelming responsibility, should take note of how ordinary Witnesses and the general public feel about their leadership, since millions of lives are affected by decisions they make at their private weekly meetings.
Who started this website?
I write under the name John Cedars. Until recently I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I left for conscientious reasons. You can read my story on this link.
I first had the idea to begin gathering the opinions of Jehovah’s Witnesses and their associates around the world because of a variety of issues that continue to be of real concern to me. I believe that ordinary Witnesses who devote their entire lives to loyally serving Jehovah, through what purports to be God’s spirit-directed organization, should have some say in the decisions that are made on their behalf.
It is my belief that not all is well within the organization, and many of the teachings and practices encouraged by the Governing Body are not formulated with the best interests of ordinary Witnesses at heart.
An unmerciful practice
For example, take the practice of shunning or “disfellowshipping.” The Apostle Paul’s words to the Corinthian congregation were as follows: “But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man… remove the wicked man from among yourselves.” (1 Cor 5:11,12)
Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians about the disfellowshipping arrangement never called for family members to be torn apart

Clearly the Apostle Paul was delivering this admonition for the purpose of keeping the congregation clean. But to what extent should these words be applied? By saying “not even eating with such a man,” Paul indicated that his words weren’t directed against family members (who would daily eat with one another), but against other brothers in the congregation with whom one might consider sharing a meal.
There is no reason to insist that the word “anyone” should be applied arbitrarily to “everyone,” irrespective of age or circumstances. Even Watchtower publications acknowledge that there should be some exceptions where family members are concerned. For example, a disfellowshipped husband is not to be shunned by his wife or children, and parents are not banned from speaking to their disfellowshipped children if they are not yet old enough to leave home. But why should it end there?
Many share my opinion that there is scope to extend even more mercy in applying this scripture than is currently encouraged by the teachings of the Governing Body. Jesus said the following to the unrighteous pharisees: “Go, then, and learn what this means: ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.” (Matthew 9:13, New World Translation)
Jesus identified mercy as playing a crucial role in the extent to which laws and principles should be enforced. Many do not think it is merciful that older teenagers, many of whom were baptized at an extremely young age, are forced out of their homes by their parents and then cruelly shunned, often for the rest of their lives, through a mistaken and abhorrent interpretation of the Apostle Paul’s advice.
The Society’s publications themselves warn that “no one should be forced to… choose between his beliefs and his family.” (July 2009 Awake!, p.9) However, they apply this reasoning to every religion but their own.
The scriptures clearly prescribe “shunning” purely as a measure for maintaining the spiritual cleanliness of the congregation, and not for the purpose of breaking up families. To go one step further and insist that shunning should also apply to families is both destructive and deeply unmerciful. It also violates the principle expressed by the Apostle Paul at 1 Timothy 5:8 where he said, “Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.”
These and other teachings of the Governing Body are increasingly becoming a cause of sincere distress for many Witnesses who wish that the organization could adopt a more merciful and loving stance. In particular, one can now be disfellowshipped as an “apostate” merely for disagreeing with the Governing Body over this or other issues.
Only human
It is my sincere desire that by means of this website, and its surveys, the Governing Body will humbly consider the pleas of both myself and like-minded ones around the world who long for the Watch Tower Society to be a more loving organization – one that is truly observant of the need for respect and tolerance toward other people’s beliefs.
The members of the Governing Body are only human, and no matter how much they may pray for wisdom and insight, they cannot possibly be fully aware of how their teachings and directives are impacting the lives of their fellow worshippers on a daily basis. That is what makes this survey website so important. It serves as a constant reminder for them to show greater kindness and mercy in undertaking the role that they have assumed as the faithful and discreet slave.
I would like to thank you in advance for your support for this site, and for getting involved in our important work.
Warmest regards,
 
new-cedars-signature2

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332 Responses to About JW Survey

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 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 25, 2013 at 6:42 am
 
You write, Liam Smith, that the Jehovah’s Witnesses are God’s organisation. This was the claim made when I was a Jehovah’s Witness. Neither then nor since, despite asking countless Jehovah’s Witnesses to provide evidence to back up this claim, I have never come across any evidence. What evidence can you give, Liam Smith? You realise that, without evidence, the entire authority of the Jehovah’s Witnesses bosses collapses, and they are exposed as nothing more than self appointed, self righteous controllers of a global publishing and property corporation. The JW bosses use this authority, based on an unevidenced claim, to exploit an unpaid labour force of magazine distributors who, for no reward, labour to increase the capital value of the WTBTS.
Reply
 
 
 Liam Smith says:

 October 25, 2013 at 7:36 am
 
When you ask for evidence mate, well all I can say is my own personal evidence which is personal to me and part of my faith.
 I wasn’t brought up as a witness and my time in the organisation has been frankly pretty tumultuous to the point I could easily walk away but for me what it comes down to is my relationship with God and appreciation for the sacrifice his son made.
 Hope this answers you question pal.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 25, 2013 at 10:33 pm
 
Of course it answers no questions at all. If I were to state that the Universe was created 150 years ago by a pink unicorn named Sidney, then you, Liam Smith would have every right to ask me for evidence to support such a bizarre statement of faith. If I were to reply merely that ‘it is my personal faith and I acknowledge that I owe my life and health to the efforts of Sidney the pink unicorn’, would you be satisfied with that answer?
It is gratifying, at least, that if this is the only justification you can have for your faith in the divine appointment of a bunch of controlling, exploitative old geezers in New York state, then your door knocking evangelising will be even less successful than the average of one new JW recruit every 40 years.
I sincerely hope, Liam Smith, that you do not fritter away the rest of your life as an unpaid mag. distributor for a corrupt property and publishing corporation.
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 Liam Smith says:

 October 25, 2013 at 11:07 pm
 
To correct you his name is pronounced Sydney or Syd as we affectionately refer to him and for your information he also can be seen in beige and not just pink!!!
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 26, 2013 at 6:36 am
 
Interesting that Faithful Witness has great respect for JWs. That respect is not reciprocated. JWs look forward, obsessively, to the day of Armageddon when their Jehovah is set to murder all non Jehovah’s Witnesses for the capital crime of non Kingdom Hall attendance and non distribution of WT mags.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 31, 2013 at 8:17 pm
 
I remember some very nice people at the Kingdom Hall of my childhood. It is tragic that they had been duped into wasting their lives as unpaid mag. distributors for a corrupt money grabbing cult.
Reply
 
 
 k.chambes says:

 November 2, 2013 at 6:44 am
 
Each and every day Watchtower elders send known pedophiles to offer unsuspecting families, bible studies. So some children will continue to be abused, some will commit suicide, some families will split. Whilst able to protect their own children, these religious leaders refuse to warn the congregation of the present danger of these “hidden in plain sight” predators, who will cause immense damage to some in the congregation in like manner.
 Delude yourself not: the Watchtower is pro pedophile and so are it’s activities!
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 What is your religion right now? says:

 November 14, 2013 at 4:23 pm
 
What is your religion right now, Mr. Cedar?
If these were the stories, the facts, and opinions about JWs, that Mr. Cedar was a former member of this organization, so what is the religion of Mr. Cedar right now? I just want to know the answer.
Thanks for posting my comments.
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 Cedars says:

 November 15, 2013 at 2:07 am
 
“What is your religion right now, Mr. Cedar?”
I don’t have one. I hope that answers your question.
Reply
 
 
 Darlene says:

 December 17, 2013 at 1:23 pm
 
Hi Peter did you know the name JEHOVAH means Lord of Mischief .Please do the research.The proof is out there.There were no Js until the 1600 or 1700s It was OVAH .The proof is in the STRONGS CONCORDANCE BIBLE DICTIONARY 1996 ON OR BEFORE.you will find it shocking.Iknow I did.BLESSINGS ON YOUR JOURNEY FOR THE TRUTH.
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 cecil scott says:

 January 5, 2014 at 8:29 am
 
How many men are on the governing body? Are they all white? Do they go into the field service? What is the latest prediction when the end of this system will happen? By the way, how old is this denomination? When did the name occur? Why did they celebrate Christmas at one time?
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior, formerly known as George says:

 January 5, 2014 at 8:43 am
 
Cecil, you have asked some really interesting questions. The one about the Governing Body is answered on this site.
As for the others, maybe a visit to jw facts would help. It’s a great site.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
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 Dr. Cecil Scott says:

 January 7, 2014 at 1:05 pm
 
TO: A Happy Witness of Jehovah…..
What light getting brighter are you talking about? Those whom you refer to as “false religions” have always preached that “the day and the hour, no one knows” referring to the end of the world. Yet you people have predicted the end of the world about 6 times, or a little over 6 times, and yet you claim to be God’s ‘faithful slave.’ You still keep on insinuating/predicting when the end will come. False prophets and a cult.
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 Dr. Cecil Scott says:

 January 7, 2014 at 1:08 pm
 
My questions were all rhetorical/sarcastic. I know the answers to all of them and the answers arent pretty.
Reply
 
 
 gheorghe says:

 January 27, 2014 at 12:18 pm
 
Unfortunately, this is the truth. The “organization” is merely a machine, a mammoth without kindness or love for the neighbor…. just words, empty words and contradictions….
Reply
 
 
 gheorghe says:

 January 27, 2014 at 12:41 pm
 
to: Mr. Cedar
Did you read what Pastor Russell wrote? (the six volumes, etc.) The JW’s pretend that Russell is their JW founder but the doctrine he taught is so different from JW’s. He was a truly Christian, I noticed from his writings; and he was appreciated in his days. Hundreds of leading papers published his articles…..In those days there was no higher authority over the ecclesia (congregation)….
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 January 27, 2014 at 12:51 pm
 
Hello gheorghe
Welcome to JWsurvey! I hope you find it informative.
I have read some of what Russell wrote. Frankly, I find his writings rather tiresome, and just as error-strewn as any Watchtower magazine (although arguably not quite as insidious). If I were to believe everything written by Russell I would be a believer that Christ came invisibly in 1878, that black people will (or should?) turn white during Christ’s millennial reign, and that the Pyramid of Giza is God’s “stone witness” because its internal measurements correspond inch-by-inch with bible chronology.
You are welcome to believe these things if it makes your life more fulfilling but I would rather decline the offer, thanks all the same.
Cedars
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 gheorghe (from Romania) says:

 January 30, 2014 at 12:36 pm
 
You may be a busy man but: I Like your comments, and thanks for reply. What I really appreciated in Russell writings is the principles the Bible laid down: i.e. redemption for ALL not matter what religion are you in – thru Jesus the Savior; election of a special class today (in the evil world of today); and after that ALL others to be resurrected and taught about God – and the joy ALL the people will have when they will understand God and be blessed by Him. The Bible is full of verses detailing these facts. About opinions: Russell had many opinions but he never insisted you believe all of them. You need to think for yourself. That’s the Bible’s way. And I see you are thinking… I would have so many things to discus with you, and people like you, because The Truth is there and we can find IT. Lord bless.
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 Holy Cannoli says:

 February 3, 2014 at 5:05 am
 
To unhappy witness? If you can see how they treat you and the the hypocrisy that exist and the fake love they proclaim why not just walk away. Is there any benefit they give by treating you and your family bad? Where is this Love they talk about? Maybe it is not the truth they proclaim?
Reply
 
 
 Holy Cannoli says:

 February 3, 2014 at 5:23 am
 
I have a question for Kevin in his scenario that he gave of the year 2099 and the JW’s being attacked by their neighbors? That is another 85 years into the future and the system is still existing? Doesn’t that totally contradict the 1914 end of gentiles teaching completely and even if you stretch the meaning of GENERATION another 5 times it goes against the number 1 teaching that the JW’s have “prophesied” over the last 75 plus years that the 1014 generation would see the end and the new world would be here? Was that just a joke you were saying Kevin about the year 2099 or has the WT changed their “understanding: again?
Reply
 
 
 gheorghe (from Romania) says:

 February 4, 2014 at 11:56 am
 
I would like to answer some questions, (I understand I may) and wish you think about it: first to Cedars and second to “holy cannoli”
1. Rev. 11:10. If you read the whole chapter you can see that the 2 witness and 2 prophets, 2 candlesticks, 2 olives are the same thing and they are the OLD and NEW Testament. These books were kept away from the people for a long time, time when the “Holy Roman Empire” was in charge but the truth they did proclaim (after) did hurt the bad system(s).
 2. It is true, the JW did some bad prophecies about time and they change it from time to time, proving they are wrong. Sometimes you just have to say, I DON’T KNOW, to some questions, and that is noting wrong. We find the answer later in time. The fact is that the gentile times did end in 1914 (you can calculate it from the Bible) but I think there is no other date given in the Scripture later than that. And as a proof is the events which followed: empires divided and even countries still divide. It Is the prophecy about the Image in Dan. (2:35 especially).
Reply
 
 
 gheorghe (from Romania) says:

 February 4, 2014 at 11:59 am
 
Oh, and a good link to a way to interpret the symbols of Revelation. And is consistent all the way with other Scriptures: [evangelical link removed]
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 February 4, 2014 at 12:21 pm
 
Hello gheorghe – it would be appreciated if you would refrain from disrespecting this site and its many visitors by posting evangelical links in direct violation of our posting guidelines. Please don’t do it again. Thanks.
Reply
 
 
 
 gheorghe (from Romania) says:

 February 4, 2014 at 12:05 pm
 
I see my first comment (before the one with the link) did not go through…..well, I can not reproduce the same words. will wait to see maybe will appear latter.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 February 5, 2014 at 2:20 am
 
Georghe – All these strange images from Daniel and Revelation, can be, and have been interpreted every which way.
Let us all remember that hose weird hallucinatory visions have absolutely no bearing on anything beyond the politics of the Middle East c. 2 millennia ago. They are definitely not any sort of guide to the future.
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 gheorghe (from Romania) says:

 February 5, 2014 at 12:36 pm
 
to Cedars:
 sorry, did not want to impose, maybe I misunderstood that I can put a link to a 3-rd party website…..And if I understand correctly: you do not believe anymore in God and in Jesus Christ, His Son? Jesus mentioned The Gospel (Evanghelia) and said to tell people about IT. I thought people writing here are Christians and we can exchange thoughts and believes….about what is wrong and right, true or false from the Bible, THE only Authority for us Christians. If that’s not true I will not any more.
to Rowland Nelken: I agree that these words can be interpreted one way or the other, but you have to accept that even Jesus refers to Daniel’s prophecies (Mat. 24:15) and precisely about the future, so they are coming from God. For me this is good enough proof that they are telling the future and you can follow it in the history. And if you find an interpretation which is in harmony with all other Scriptures then you did find the PLAN God has for MAN. Ephes. 1:9 and 3:11, Acts 20:27, Rom. 8:28. God has a PLAN and you (everyone) are in IT. Lord Bless.
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 February 5, 2014 at 4:01 pm
 
gheorghe, you assume an awful lot. The nature and tone of this website is obvious from reading our posting guidelines, which you are now required to familiarize yourself with before posting a comment. The guidelines unequivocally mention evangelical links, but I will accept your apology.
Reply
 
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 February 5, 2014 at 1:36 pm
 
It is Jesus’ references to Daniel and Noah which turn me off the guy. I appreciate that some of Jesus’ teachings are quite sound, and even worthy of repetition and observance 2000 years after they were allegedly spoken. As far as my own studies have shown, however, it seems tha Jesus was one of many freelance apocalyptic rabbis in what has come to be known as the first century. Once Paul had established a fringe Jewish sect in Jesus’ name, a whole load of stories grew up about the guy a generation and more after his death. That St. Paul’s sect collected more support amongst Gentiles than Jews, and the Gentiles were none too keen on the Torah, especially circumcision, led to Christianity’s final split with Judaism by the end of the first century. This could well be what much of Revelation is about. Yes, there are Christians of a range of types who contribute to this site, but there are many others too.
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 gheorghe (from Romania) says:

 February 6, 2014 at 12:19 pm
 
ok…. I see. I am a Christian and I believe the Bible is the Word of God. In the end All will be glad to believe, but now not every one can, like Jesus said. Peace be with you all. See you in the Kingdom of Jesus, not long from now, as the events in the world demonstrate that this systems, organizations, are falling apart. But the NECESITY of Man will be the OPORTUNITY of God to help him – in due time.
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 March 11, 2014 at 7:00 am
 
1000 IS a small number of voices, compared to the millions that are currently serving Jehovah’s organization. MILLIONS of people who are not allowed to express themselves. Millions of people who remain silent, out of fear of losing their families and everything they have ever known.
What is your point? There are millions of people in this organization, who remain voiceless.
Jesus cared about EVERY sheep. Perhaps someone can explain why those who have been appointed to shepherd the flock today, ignore the cries of the children who are being abused? They are more concerned with protecting the name of their religion (vindicating the name of Jehovah), than they are with caring for those in their charge.
EVERY voice matters. Do you agree with everything the JW’s are preaching and practicing today? Everything?
Reply
 
 
 John Nelson says:

 March 14, 2014 at 6:29 pm
 
Why do they lie so much?
 Is it the last days?
 Is it after Armageddon?
 Is it the thousand year reign?
 Are people being resurrected?
 Does Jehovah permit homosexuality?
 Why lie to any?
 If the wages for sin is death why resurrect any to judgements?
 Why torment anyone?
 Why not help all?
 Why lie?
Reply
 
 
 Holy Conolli says:

 April 1, 2014 at 1:40 am
 
Georghe from Romania;
 I just saw your explanation and response. Sorry for late reply.
 You say Gentile times REALLY did end in 1914? What is that Idea based on? If you use the 2520 years that the JWs teach as representing 2520 years and 99% of all scholars and even the WT knows Jerusalem was nor destroyed in 607bce but in 587 BCE it throws the entire Idea out the window! The fact that kingdoms were divided after 1914 does not prove anything in regard to Gentile times. Kingdoms have been divided ever since man was on the earth.
 I used to think that bc of all the deaths and wars in WW! and WW2 that it must be largest amount of death ever? No, it isn’t. Look up Largest deaths in war on Google or Wikipedia and you will see deaths in millions and millions of people over the years and with a much less earth population. You never hear the WT talk about those trouble times bc it doesn’t fit their agenda. The entire Idea that Jesus came “INVISBLY” in 1914 but you can’t see him is not scriptural nor is it reasonable and does not make sense if you read the rest of the scriptures about his coming and his revelation.
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 April 1, 2014 at 1:48 am
 
The history of Islam as well as of Christendom, of which JWdom is but a minor latterday fragment, a late 19th century American Adventist spinoff, is littered with End Times prophets.
They all suffer from the delusion that the Bible (or Koran) is the Word of God and is somehow a guide to the future.
Neither book is. They are both works of the human imagination and can tell us quite alot about the societies that gave rise to their production.
Both, however, are useless as moral guides or predictors of humanity’s future.
Their continued use as humanity’s ultimate guide is tiresome, painful and sometimes murderous. Time those old books were consigned to a museum
Reply
 
 
 Fynn says:

 April 14, 2014 at 7:44 am
 
Cedar, I worried about your intend for creating this site. If you think the Governing Body is doing something wrong why not seek help from the body of elders.
Do you think you are challenging the arrangement of Jehovah?
This I think is similar to that of Dathan and Korah of old. They rebeled against the appointed man of Jehovah. – Num. 16.
Why not turn to Jehovah again.
[link removed]
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 Rowland Nelken says:

 April 14, 2014 at 8:12 am
 
Fynn, are you real or a sendup?
How can an organisation like the Watchtower, whose only legacy in their 135 year existence is a string of duff prophecies, a trail of deaths through teir fli flopping edicts on blood transfusion, split families through the shunning diktats, stunted lives through the frowning on education and paedophile protection, courtesy of the 2 witness rule, have any connection to any god that might exist?
JWdom also depends on being able to kid its followers, in the face of all available statistics, that wars, earthquakes and epidemics are on the increase.
It is sites like this one, and they are growing in number, that are making it more difficult for ugly little cults like JWdom that depend on ignorance for their survival, to spread their poisonous message and wreck so many lives.
I hope Fynn, that your defence of the JWs was in jest and that you are joining us in laughing at your little post.
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior says:

 April 14, 2014 at 11:28 am
 
Fynn,
Cedars cannot seek help from a body of Elders. The Elders have been appointed by the very men he is concerned about.
If the Body of Elders found in favour of Cedars, what would happen next? Would they take Cedars’ concerns to the Governing Body? What would be the response of the GB? They would doubtlessly disfellowship the entire body, as they did at Menlo Park.
Aaron had a rod that budded. His sacrifice was accepted. Moses had a column of flame. What do the Governing Body have to PROVE that they are chosen by Christ?
Christ anticipated this conundrum. He asked us to look at the fruitage. Many will claim to follow him, but the proof is in the pudding.
The list of complaints against the GB are long and harrowing:
Cover up of child abuse
Cover up of domestic violence
Rape victims facing a judicial committee to check that they cried out and that they are not guilty of fornication.
If the GB are really God’s chosen people, then how can they allow these base crimes to perpetuate in their religion? What do you think Christ would think of these atrocities?
Mr Cedars is a good man. He writes balanced, well researched articles that have helped many, many people understand fully just what the WTBTS is and what it does. I personally think that Christ would be proud of his service to his fellow humans. He would see his self sacrifice as a noble and humane act, that glorified God. Why don’t you?
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 April 14, 2014 at 1:45 pm
 
Fynn,
 Can you please provide some biblical evidence that the governing body has been appointed by Christ? I have been unable to find any quotes from Jesus, or any of the prophets, of any divine leadership being appointed at some later time in the future.
I have found prophecies about an EVIL power, taking over the world and fooling many during the times of the end… but where is the evidence that God was going to have an organization or any mortal men in charge of his people who were still alive on earth today?
Please help. I really don’t understand this teaching, and no JW seems to have the answers I seek.
How do you know that the governing body is appointed by Jehovah?
Reply
 
 
 Paul Drake says:

 April 24, 2014 at 10:00 am
 
I know a woman who was forced by her husband, an elder in the 50’s, to have an illegal abortion “so as to be better able to serve Jehovah”. She never was mentally right after this. He divorced her under a pretext and married a younger woman. He died in good standing. She died as a disfellowshipped person.
 That’s a reunion I’d like to see.
Reply
 
 chatpal says:

 December 22, 2014 at 6:29 pm
 
if a paul drake is still on this site id like for him to tell us he is ok, otherwise, I believe the paul drake poster ,if he is who i think it was,
 has passed away last week . r.i.p
Reply
 
 
 
 Vincent law says:

 April 29, 2014 at 2:49 pm
 
I have been following your blog for a few years now.
 I have also left the JW organisation.
 It is very clear that the wtbts will say and do whatever it takes to keep group control they have there own agenda and that of there shareholders and partners this is the real problem its capitalistic its not a cooperative or foundation.
Reply
 
 
 trenton crump says:

 May 30, 2014 at 2:43 pm
 
good comeback
Reply
 
 
 hels bels says:

 June 12, 2014 at 11:22 am
 
I left the witness cult over 10 years ago. From time to time I googled ex jws, and found some interesting information. A few months ago I googled again – hadn’t done so for a while. I am delighted to see the work that you are doing. Thank you so much for all your hard work.. I have managed to move on with my life, but it never leaves you. I Enjoy your you tube blogs and this website is wonderful. There are many many more trying to leave and this support is invaluable. Well done. Xxx
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 June 12, 2014 at 12:52 pm
 
to hels bels
I to left the WT over 15 years ago. This is a great website for folks connected with the WT to express their feelings and concerns for current or former JW’s. One thing I have noticed is some former JW’s that express themselves here on a regular basis seem to get into many debates with some defending the WT and it turns into a verbal war amongst them both.
 I feel if they are coming here thery are coming for a reason and most likely they have had their own doubts and see the WRONGS committed in the WT and Gov body but are to scared to leave something they have been connected with for many years and/or fearful of being DF’d and having family and friends turn their backs on them. Like you said those that have been JW’s or other cults have said that the damage leaves you 100%. Scientologists, Armstrong World wide Church of God, Moonies all say the same thing. I think if we can be more understanding of their situation it would be helpful. If we remember how difficult and hard it was for us to leave and the process we went through to do it. For many of us it took years to break away. My point is debates and arguments don’t produce much positive energy. If we just keep pointing out the Failed teachings and failed prophecies, Flip flop teachings, Child molestation policy, Blood transfusions, generational teachings, and Dictator type control they LORD over the flock that should make the Majority rethink what they are going through everyday. Many people do not want to think on their own so let them be. Their is a huge struggle in the WT today and
 like Communism did 25 years ago fell from its own teachings and corruption.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 June 12, 2014 at 1:08 pm
 
To Hels Bels
I meant to say the damage never leaves you 100% That was a bad typo
 On my part. Sorry about that. Hope you are doing well and enjoying life.
Reply
 
 
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About JW Survey

A message from the founder of JWsurvey.org…
It is my pleasure to give you a warm welcome to JWsurvey.org. This website has been launched to give voice to millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world who would not normally have the opportunity to say what they really think about the Watch Tower Society, or the teachings and practices of the Governing Body.
The Governing Body has yet to express any interest in hearing the views of ordinary witnesses. Their mantra is: “We talk, you listen!”

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, or a former Witness, you will be aware that the opinions of rank and file publishers (and even elders) are rarely sought by the Society. The small number of men making up the Governing Body have declared themselves the “faithful and discreet slave” of Matthew 24:45, thus claiming sole control over the organization’s teachings and policies. These men are most certainly NOT interested in the opinions of the “silent majority” of Witnesses under their authority. If they are, they have a strange way of showing it!
This website seeks to redress that balance by means of an annual survey that is conducted anonymously throughout the world. The first survey was taken in 2011, and immediately attracted the opinions of 1,118 voters before closing at the end of the year. The results were posted to the Governing Body for their attention and review but, predictably, they never replied.
The following year, 2012, the survey received votes from 1,488 current and former Witnesses, most of whom expressed their concern at various Watchtower teachings. The remarkable events of that year (the Candace Conti case and the “new light” about the faithful slave) certainly seemed to get people talking. Subsequent surveys promise to attract even more attention as our website steadily grows in popularity.
A website for all
This site has been created and made available online so that anyone, whether they are a former or current Witness, or in some way associated with Witness friends or relatives, can give their honest opinions about the organization and its governance.
We adopt a strictly non-religious viewpoint, meaning that we refuse to promote any belief structure in particular. For this reason, we cannot be accused of trying to “draw off followers.” We are merely interested in garnering the views of ordinary Witnesses and reporting on the facts.
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses has not authorized or sponsored this survey, and it is run entirely without any influence or input from them. However, we genuinely feel that the brothers who serve on the Governing Body, having assumed such overwhelming responsibility, should take note of how ordinary Witnesses and the general public feel about their leadership, since millions of lives are affected by decisions they make at their private weekly meetings.
Who started this website?
I write under the name John Cedars. Until recently I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I left for conscientious reasons. You can read my story on this link.
I first had the idea to begin gathering the opinions of Jehovah’s Witnesses and their associates around the world because of a variety of issues that continue to be of real concern to me. I believe that ordinary Witnesses who devote their entire lives to loyally serving Jehovah, through what purports to be God’s spirit-directed organization, should have some say in the decisions that are made on their behalf.
It is my belief that not all is well within the organization, and many of the teachings and practices encouraged by the Governing Body are not formulated with the best interests of ordinary Witnesses at heart.
An unmerciful practice
For example, take the practice of shunning or “disfellowshipping.” The Apostle Paul’s words to the Corinthian congregation were as follows: “But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man… remove the wicked man from among yourselves.” (1 Cor 5:11,12)
Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians about the disfellowshipping arrangement never called for family members to be torn apart

Clearly the Apostle Paul was delivering this admonition for the purpose of keeping the congregation clean. But to what extent should these words be applied? By saying “not even eating with such a man,” Paul indicated that his words weren’t directed against family members (who would daily eat with one another), but against other brothers in the congregation with whom one might consider sharing a meal.
There is no reason to insist that the word “anyone” should be applied arbitrarily to “everyone,” irrespective of age or circumstances. Even Watchtower publications acknowledge that there should be some exceptions where family members are concerned. For example, a disfellowshipped husband is not to be shunned by his wife or children, and parents are not banned from speaking to their disfellowshipped children if they are not yet old enough to leave home. But why should it end there?
Many share my opinion that there is scope to extend even more mercy in applying this scripture than is currently encouraged by the teachings of the Governing Body. Jesus said the following to the unrighteous pharisees: “Go, then, and learn what this means: ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.” (Matthew 9:13, New World Translation)
Jesus identified mercy as playing a crucial role in the extent to which laws and principles should be enforced. Many do not think it is merciful that older teenagers, many of whom were baptized at an extremely young age, are forced out of their homes by their parents and then cruelly shunned, often for the rest of their lives, through a mistaken and abhorrent interpretation of the Apostle Paul’s advice.
The Society’s publications themselves warn that “no one should be forced to… choose between his beliefs and his family.” (July 2009 Awake!, p.9) However, they apply this reasoning to every religion but their own.
The scriptures clearly prescribe “shunning” purely as a measure for maintaining the spiritual cleanliness of the congregation, and not for the purpose of breaking up families. To go one step further and insist that shunning should also apply to families is both destructive and deeply unmerciful. It also violates the principle expressed by the Apostle Paul at 1 Timothy 5:8 where he said, “Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.”
These and other teachings of the Governing Body are increasingly becoming a cause of sincere distress for many Witnesses who wish that the organization could adopt a more merciful and loving stance. In particular, one can now be disfellowshipped as an “apostate” merely for disagreeing with the Governing Body over this or other issues.
Only human
It is my sincere desire that by means of this website, and its surveys, the Governing Body will humbly consider the pleas of both myself and like-minded ones around the world who long for the Watch Tower Society to be a more loving organization – one that is truly observant of the need for respect and tolerance toward other people’s beliefs.
The members of the Governing Body are only human, and no matter how much they may pray for wisdom and insight, they cannot possibly be fully aware of how their teachings and directives are impacting the lives of their fellow worshippers on a daily basis. That is what makes this survey website so important. It serves as a constant reminder for them to show greater kindness and mercy in undertaking the role that they have assumed as the faithful and discreet slave.
I would like to thank you in advance for your support for this site, and for getting involved in our important work.
Warmest regards,
 
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332 Responses to About JW Survey

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 steve cowton says:

 June 30, 2014 at 12:50 pm
 
is it true as a jw your wife isn’t allowed to give you a bj?
Reply
 
 
 Jalmar says:

 July 29, 2014 at 3:20 am
 
Thanks for your writings if the input I use often in debate with a very rabid “omniscient” JW
I was wondering if you could write a bit about the subject NWT – And GB’s claims: http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989250
 Definition: A translation of the Holy Scriptures made​​: directly from Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek into modern-day English
 by a committee of anointed witnesses of Jehovah.
Have you ever thought about the fact that GBs theology is not consistent with the “Christian Greek Scriptures” – despite GB’s:
“carefully in conjunction with the Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek basic text” –
On the title page of the 1984 NWT?
Moreover there isn’t any “basic texts” = Original Text of any of the languages​​.
You could maybe also write about “the anointed” – and Who anointed them?
Reply
 
 
 Judith Demaestri says:

 August 11, 2014 at 3:58 pm
 
I fully support this site because so far it has stated only the truth as I know it after 62 yrs. in this cult.
Reply
 
 
 Emilia Zayas says:

 October 6, 2014 at 10:28 am
 
GREAT,I LOVED
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 6, 2014 at 5:19 pm
 
When I read your postings, I noticed that you are very critical about the GB and other JW’s putting “spin” into their comments, opinions, positions and such. However, I also notice that your comments and postings, blogs, etc. are very slanted in a negative way, not a neutral one. Therefore, you can and do regularly put your own “spin” on these subjects, especially in a way so as to put a bad light on these people. Doesn’t that make you just as guilty as you say they are?
 You and I both know that anyone can take a bit of statistical information, letters, opinions and end up making them anything you want them to be. I find your website to be one that has a definite goal of putting the JW organization in a bad light and although not directly, drawing people away from the truth of the matter, indirectly, it is apparent that you do NOT want any of your readers to get ANY positive info about the group.
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 October 7, 2014 at 12:38 am
 
Hello RJ, welcome to JWsurvey and thank you for commenting. I’m sorry my articles don’t live up to your expectations. However, you must understand that, from my perspective, this is a natural and expected response from someone who has been indoctrinated to think of Watchtower as God’s sole channel of communication with mankind. ANY criticism of Watchtower, however justified, would grate on someone who is under this kind of influence.
With this in mind, allow me to “cut to the chase,” as it were.
Either Watchtower, or the religion it advocates for Jehovah’s Witnesses, is true – or it isn’t. If it is true, then you should be able to answer the “Cedars Challenge” in the video below, and collect your prize (taking this website offline) for doing so. If, however, the Jehovah’s Witness religion ISN’T true, then it is extremely damaging. Why? Because families are being needlessly broken up through shunning for a religion that isn’t true, and people are dying in hospitals through refusing medical treatment for a religion that isn’t true. That’s just two examples, I could give you others.
So, if I am wrong, I look forward to your response to the challenge below…



Reply
 
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 6, 2014 at 8:08 pm
 
Now is your opportunity RJ. Let us hear all the good things about the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
MAybe my personal experience and knowledge is warped and slanted. Being a JW was certainly the worst aspect of my childhood by far. The idea that before the end of the 20th century, God was due to execute, at Armageddon, all the world’s non JWs, a crowd that would include most of my firends and family, and me too, unless I became a good enough JW, gave me nightmares.
As an adult I have discovered more of the achievements of the organisation. They include split families through shunning, deaths through refusal of blood, a string of duff prophecies, doctrinal flip flops galore and protection of paedophiles.
Thus far, as you might gather, RS, I am not very impressed with the JW track record. Maybe you are right. Perhaps my view is warped and one sided. Please enlighten, me, Cedars and others and tell us all the good things that the Watchtower has done and is doing!
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 7, 2014 at 1:23 am
 
@RJ. I have been reading on this site for 9 months now and have never seen any comments from John Cedars that is critical of Jehovah’s Witnesses as a people. He is nothing but sympathetic. His comments and most of the rest of us who comment though are critical of the Governing Body because they are the ones responsible for the cover ups and lies and the enforced shunning for those who would like to get away from this religion in peace. That is the John Cedars that I see. If you can show me that I didn’t waste the 48 years of my 68 years on this earth defending a poisonous cult, I for one am anxious to hear it by you giving us some evidence that God is directing this uninspired, God-directed true prophet as they claim and chose it in 1919 as they claim.
If you are open minded enough, read Don Cameron’s Captives of a Concept or The Gentile Times Reconsidered by Carl Olof Jonsson and you will reach the same conclusions as most of us posting on this site. If you are banned from reading these books, ask yourself why????? If you really have the “truth”, the “truth” will stand up to lies……
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 October 7, 2014 at 3:52 am
 
@RJ. Not to get in a long debate bc WT Apologists have their own agenda.
 I as a former long time Elder who left over18 years ago feel that this site is not a derogatory JW site. This site is a way to look at the WT from an open perspective and asks he logical intelligent questions that we as JW’s or former JW’s or “Approved Associates” or extended family and friends of JW’s have always wanted to ask and always wondered about but were NOT ALLOWED to ask or question bc of the GASTAPO GB and the continual threat of Shunning and being DF’s and cut off from your family, friends and others for “THINKING” out loud. JR. BE honest with yourself. Like we al say and even the WT says, If it is the truth it should be able to hold up to any challenge or questions about their past, present and future right? The truth should have nothing to hide. The WT rewrites their own history. They change things anytime they want to. They flip flop on most teachings. they come up with the strangest bible interpretations of any religion and then change it 1,2,3- years later and no one is supposed to question it?
My wife is still a STAUNCH JW and a pioneer. We get into debates continually as she serves the men in Brooklyn. I continually ask her and even did today. If the Jw’s are right and have the Truth please tell me 1 prophecy that they have predicted out of he many hundreds over the last 100 plus years that have come true? Can you give me just 1? From the king of the North, to 1925, gog of magog, to 1925, 1975, 2000, to the F&D slave, where Jehovah dwells,( one time they believed he had his own private planet? ) Sounds mormonish to me?
Her answer tonight was yes, I can tell you! Ok What I asked. She said 1914!
 Oh man, that opened up a can of worms. She blurted out what she hears. She knows 1914 is not true bc he and I have discussed it before but this time she started saying how it was the first time in history that so many nations got together for a war? So what. Other ward have killed millions more than WW1 of course the WT never brings that historical point up. So this is the bottom line RJ. Thers is not one, I repeat not one clear prophecy or prediction the JW’s can prove they prophesied correctly in over 125 years. I ask you if that is true then
 how can they claim to have the “truth”? this doesn’t even consider their wacko teachings on many other things. Can you provide us with 1 prophecy that came true from the JW’s? Just 1 please.
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 October 7, 2014 at 3:58 am
 
RJ,
I would be delighted to read some “positive info on the group”. It does not make me jump for joy to have to return to this organisation after twenty years to highlight the immoral activities of this so called Christian organisation.
The trouble is, RJ, I can’t find any on JW.org or in the WTBTS’ publications! I find examples of spin, dishonest quoting, omission of pertinent facts and rules that are far from Christian.
I would be very interested in your viewpoint on three issues that I find very important.
 The first is the WTBTS’ child protection policy. I have carried out research on this topic and I have found no protection for children or young people whatsoever. What do you think is best about the WTBTS’s child protection policy?
The second is the non existent protection of women from domestic abuse. Have you read the WTBTS’s position on this? Do you think it is right to encourage a woman to stay in an abusive relationship and not to be able to divorce on this grounds and not be remarried “in the Lord”?
The third is the shunning of Ex JWs by their families. Do you think that this is right? Can you point me to a verse in the Bible where Jesus shunned someone?
Please, RJ, relate your opinion on these very important issues. I am genuinely interested in your point of view.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 7, 2014 at 7:49 am
 
RJ – please note the reaction you have caused. There are several of us waiting to hear something utterly novel. We have studied the history and doctrine of the Jehovah’s Witnesses and have failed to find anything positive therein.
It is your duty to help us, unless, of course you feel we deserve an imminent execution for failing to see any positive aspects of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. If you are a genine believing and practising Jehovah’s Witness you must believe that we genuinely deserve a soon to be delivered Armageddon death penalty at the hands of Jehovah for failure to devote our lives once again to following the edicts of the Governing Body.
Help us JR. It is your duty to us, to yourself, and, of course, to Jehovah.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 7, 2014 at 12:50 pm
 
Come on RJ! Let us hear all the good things about the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Enlighten us!
As Cedars says in his vid. no JW has risen to his challenge.
Be the first!
When all of us doubters are convinced that JWdom is true we will, of course, seek reinstatement and dedicate our lives to spreading the JW message in the short time that remains before Armageddon.
We will no longer try and expose the apparently murderous blood ban amd the shunning. We will realise that these are necessary to fulfil Jehovah’s will and to aid us and others in surviving Armageddon.
You have a golden opportunity to enhance your status at your local Kingdom Hall, to improve your image in the eyes of Jehovah and to save us lost sheep from Armageddon execution.
We know the reason for the delay could not possibly be that you lack the evidence for presenting JW TRUTH as true. If it were not true, of course you would not seek to either belong to or defend the Watchtower.
So, come on RJ. A hungry readership (and great rewards) await.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 8, 2014 at 12:39 pm
 
Well RJ, you can now join the long list of JW apologists and defenders who have come on this site, and, when challenged to present evidence for the Governing Body’s extraordinary claims of divine appointment, have disappeared.
Obviously you cannot provide any evidence to even suggest that JW TRUTH is true. It clearly is not. There is no evidence, of course, to connect the JW Governing Body with the Faithful and Discreet Slave of Matthew 24. That is the basis for the entire authority wielded by the JW bosses. The claim, and thus the Gov. Bod’s authority, is utterly bogus.
It would be interesting, however, RJ, to hear exactly what you JW defenders do when faced with the fact that you cannot justify your cruel and ridiculous beliefs. I am presuming, of course that you can understand why the JW central and ruling obsession, of looking forward to that mega orgy of destruction, Jehovah’s execution, at Armageddon, of nigh on 7 billion of your fellow humans, is perverse and obscene in the extreme.
Now you know, RJ, that you can find no evidence to support your horrible beliefs, can you please enlighten us as to what you are going to do? Will you creep back to the Kingdom Hall and desperately try and convince yourself that, despite the total absence of evidence, JW TRUTH is truly truthfully true? Will you shrink from the challenge of remodelling your life, and instead fritter it away as an unpaid mag pusher for a corrupt global publishing and property corporation?
As you must know, apart from making bogus claims, JWdom’s only other credits are the thousands of unnecessary deaths through its blood transfusion ban, its protection of paedophiles through its two witness rule, its split families through shunning, and the stunted lives through the ban on so many social occasions and its discouragement of education once the abilty to read JW mags and parrot their contents has been acquired.
Keep in touch, RJ. We are curious to know how you disappeared guys react, (or at least how you react, as, no doubt everyone behaves differently).
I hope you find a better way of life. You are worth more than to waste your life working as a slave for a bunch of geezers in New York who care nothing about you beyond your ability to enhance their organisation’s capital value.
Reply
 
 
 Pseudonym says:

 October 12, 2014 at 3:29 pm
 
They don’t really get involved too much in that anymore. But I think very recently yes. But I’ve not seen any specification like that anywhere of late. Only specifically speaks of sexual acts by name in relation to pre-marital acts that I’m aware of myself.
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 17, 2014 at 10:38 am
 
I have been away from my computer for a bit, so I did not see any of the replies to my comments until today. So, now I would like to comment again about what I was saying:
The blogs of this website’s owner is contrary to what he claims. He says he is not persuading anyone in any direction and the website is simply for information. He also allows such despicable comments such as the one in June by Steve Cowton to remain on his site. Very little was said in response to my statements, just people taking the opportunity to blast their biased voice about a matter that I did not even raise.
Now as to all of you who replied to my original comment. I never once said anything to defend my personal beliefs or to attempt to change anyone’s mind about anything other than to state that this web site appears to be nothing more than a bunch of JW haters spouting out about their personal opinions.
Review every one of the replies to my comment. People just waiting to pounce with their hate, sarcasm, innuendos, name calling and personal attacks on others including me.
I laugh at the notion that those who have a positive view of JW’s disappear and do not return to the blogs on this site because of their fear of being wrong and it being exposed. Read the hate speech directed at me and you will see why they would stay away.
You commenters have no idea who I am, anything about me and yet you gang up on someone whose views differ from yours. You are very quick to degrade and spew hatred, but where is your heart? Do you have anything positive to say that might enlighten a person toward what is true? Or are you simply, hate-filled disgruntled past members who have an axe to grind?
I nave no intention of trying to convince anyone of you whether JWs are right or wrong. That was not my intent when I made my initial comment. I was simply pointing out that the owner of this site appears to be somewhat deceptive in what he says is this site’s purpose.
It appears that this site is a place for the haters and people with strong negative views to spout out about their position. That’s all I was trying to point out. From the replies to my comment, you have all made it plainly evident that this site is effective in quashing opposing views using the silly, unkind and loveless dialog as can read here.
I do not feel it to be my responsibility to try to convince anyone of anything. I do not owe anything to any of you responders, except to extend the love demonstrated by Jesus. I get the strong impression that most of you have a great knowledge of or have preciously been a JW. It’s obvious you have made your choice of which I have no problem with.
I may choose to comment more and on the other hand I may not. It did not take much time to post my original comment and I am not sorry that I did it. However, I am not desiring to get into long debates. I have friends that are JWs who have treated me much better than any of you have here. Also, my time is valuable to me and I desire to spend it on happy, uplifting and fun activities instead of hate talk and bad vibes about people I do not even know.
Finally, I am not in fear of any of you or your views about my friends or about me for that matter. If I do not return it will simply be that I do not desire an extension of what has already appears to be a bunch of bullies ganging up on the new boy in town.
P.S. Have any of you, including the owner of this blog read the posted guidelines? Try, it, you will be enlightened.
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 17, 2014 at 11:05 am
 
By the way Mr Cedars,
 I read your response again and you certainly initiated the attacks on me and even accusing me of being “indoctrinated”. You do not know who I am, what I my religious beliefs are, nor what “influence” I am under. Keep with the guidelines of YOUR blog and stick to the point. Try answering the questions I brought up to you instead of violating YOUR guideline of “Religious Neutrality”.
You appear to be anything but neutral. Also, try to calm down Mr. Nelkin, he is obviously so excited to dominate this blog, me and probably others, you risk turning your “survey” and so-called religiously neutral blog into a mouth piece for this very biased and abusive man
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 17, 2014 at 2:53 pm
 
I can only speak for myself, but my childhood was overshadowed by unnecessary fears about Armageddon, due, according to the JWs back then, before the end of the 20th century, executing me, my non JW and friends as well as me if I did not perform as a good enough JW.
I do not want future generations of children to suffer such cruel nonsense and, apart from anything else, this blog serves as a warning to anyone who may be curious about the JWs, those nice polite Christian door knockers, and be beguiled by their tales of an imminent Paradise Earth.
As an adult I have learned more about the JWs. Even after leaving, in my late teens (though my mother stayed in for life) I was filled with doubts and fear, lest there was some truth in JW TRUTH. I spent much time studying both the Bible and the history of the Watchtower, and later, with the internet, discovered the stories of a range of ex JWs.
The more I learn, the worse the JW organisation appears. I had known about the blood deaths and the string of duff prophecies, but the protection of paedophiles and the shunning were news to me.
Practising and believing JWs do sometimes contribute to this and other ex JW sites. WHat is remarkable, RJ, is that not a single one can demonstrate that there is any truth in JW truth, nor can they point to any benefits of belonging. You, RJ, are no different from the others.
Of course, you are entitled to write negative things about me and John Cedars as well as about the blog itself. It would be interesting, however, if you could apprise us of some evidence which might suggest that JW TRUTH is true, or, indeed, that there have been any positive aspects of the Bible Students/ Jehovah’s Witnesses in their 135 year history.
You might also consider why, unlike, say, ex Methodists or ex Quakers, there are so many ex JWs, keen to warn the world about the dangers of getting ensnared by this cult, and campaigning to either get it to totally transform itself, or disappear.
If you feel we are ignorant about the benefits, or even the truth of JW TRUTH. Please enlghten us.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 October 17, 2014 at 3:09 pm
 
I AS A AFORMER LONG TIME ELDER AND assembly OVERSEER AT TIMES Coule see the religion is built on Fear. Fear of dying and/or being destroyed if not loyal to an origination.Fear of Armageddon, Fear of being DF’d. Fear pf losin g your friends and family, fear of not making it in to the new world. Fear, fear fear.
Have you noticed at assemblies/conventions et most of the talks are negative. Most are just depressing about how bad everything is and how bad you will be if you leave the WT? I was getting depressed listening to all the negatives day in and day out. Another note I was noticing that less and less Jesus Christ was being mentioned? It was all using the name Jehovah. In the Christian Scriptures the entire focus is on Jesus and his teachings and his sacrificial death. He being the Savior of mankind. However over time this was mentioned less and less almost to the point of ignoring him and his teachings.
Any religion that is based on Fear is not from God.Christianity is a simple faith but the WT has made it very complicated.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 17, 2014 at 3:12 pm
 
I realise I do not know you, RJ, but I did write, amongst other things, that you are worth more than to be an unpaid mag. pusher for an organisation that cares nothing about you beyond your ability to augment its capital value. That is not hate. Why interpret it as such?
Mine, Cedars’ and others’ posts have been directed not at the members trapped within JWdom, but at the organisation itself.
Thousands have suffered at the hands of the JW organisation. As you appear to be a supporter, RJ, of said org. it is disappointing that, while raging at others’ comments that are directed not at you, but at the organisation you seem to want to defend, you have nothing to say in its favour.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 17, 2014 at 3:36 pm
 
I have just read over the replies to you, RJ, and can see no hate speech, neither from me, Cedars or anyone elase. There is information, certainly, questions and opinions. For someone who dislikes negative diatribes I would have thought the Kingdom Hall is not a suitable place, nor does JW lit. make for suitable reading.
Unless the JWs have changed beyond recognition, both KH lectures and JW lit. is filled with derogatory remarks about all other branches of Christendom as well as other religions and, indeed, all aspects of the world beyond the control of the JW bosses.
ANd the hate is not purely verbal. There is this warning that the entire world not under the control of the Watchtower bosses is so foul that it it will soon meet, at the hands of Jehovah, a terminal blow to its existence in the form of Armageddon.
Although I learned long ago that the JW bosses are utterly phoney and their cliams mean nothing, for those who have been beguiled by their methods, the action which will accompany the hateful words seems real and terrifying. It did to me as a child at the Kingdom Hall.
I suggest you read both JW lit, as well as the comments here, in reply to yours RJ and then decide where lies the hate.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 17, 2014 at 11:58 pm
 
Please, RJ, you have accused me, Cedars and other people who have posted on here of directing hatred at you.
I do not see any. There are plenty of stories about the hateful way some commenters have been treated by the Jehovah’s Witnesses. That includes Cedars himself. For my own part I only suffered, due to my association with the JWs, nightmares and a constant feeling of guilt. That, however, is no reason to heap praise on an organisation. It is, however, a reason to warn others not to get involved.
As I mentioned before, the most glaring examples, in my own experience where JWdom and hatred come together are my memories of talks, Watchtower studies, home book studies and the Theocratic Ministry School; indeed everything associated with the JW experience.
We were warned off everything in the world that was not under the control of the Watchtower bosses. These were all Satanic; so wicked and expendable that they were due to be obliterated, before the end of the 20th century, by Jehovah in his mega orgy of destruction known as Armageddon.
Referring to the world and its billions of fellow humans which were not of that micro minority of baptised and active JWs as fodder for execution is, surely, hate. And this was not a few remarks, as might be found on a blog. This was constant. Three meetings a week at the Kingdom Hall, a home book study as well as in all the required preparatory reading and doorstep preaching.
Why, RJ, do you think it out of order to recount facts about a destructive organisation whose only ‘achievements’ in its 135 year history are a string of duff prophecies, thousands of deaths thriough flip flopping edicts on blood transfusion, split families through shunning, protection of paedophiles through the 2 witness rule and stunted lives through the frowning on education once the ability to read JW lit. and parrot its contents on the doorstep has been acquired?
We know you do not like this blog and you are no fan of Cedars or me. Thank you for making that clear. An answer to the following question, however, would be interesting:
Why do you consider information hate speech?
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 18, 2014 at 12:43 am
 
As I mentioned before, RJ, I see no hate directed against you. There is information in the replies which points out the hate filled speech from Kingdom Hall platforms (all non JWs deserve to be executed) and the hateful behaviour experienced by some commenters at the hands of the JW outfit.
There are also invitations to you, RJ, to enlighten us as to the good things coming from the Watchtower as well as some evidence that JW TRUTH is true.
You have responded to neither invitation. You have simply made unsubstantiated allegations of hate.
My invitation to you, RJ, to tell us some postive achievements of the Watchtower, achievements which most contributors here, including me, appear not to have noticed, still stands.
I cannot speak for Cedars, but I presume his challenge is still open to you. I can offer no prizes for telling us positive info. about the Watchtower, but Cedars’ prize must surely tempt you. If you can demonstrate that JW TRUTH is true, this website which seems to have caused you so much anguish, will disappear.
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 18, 2014 at 2:59 am
 
RJ, My challenge is still open to you to read “Captives of a Concept” and “Gentile Times Reconsidered”.
If you are not a Witness now, you should ask for a Bible study and make sure that every single statement that you see in the publication that the Society makes in that publication is backed up by the Bible. You will be amazed at all the blanket statements that the Watchtower makes without any Biblical backing. That is the mistake that all of us made when we studied, whether adult or as children. If you have a Bible study like that, it’s the Society that would be put on the offensive and the teacher will be amazed at how much they were also deceived into thinking that it was the “Truth” when all it was, was just made up “truths”, not substantiated in the Bible at all. You will have your eyes opened up by a “study” like that, believe me.
The bravest thing that I ever did (and all those in the same situation) was to walk away from the meetings and field service, knowing I was going to lose every so-called “friend” I had ever had at the Kingdom hall, both here and in many other congregations. It wasn’t lazy, like the Society would like you to think it was. It was not supporting lies anymore. Our consciences won’t allow for that and neither should yours.
Prove what the Society says is the “Truth”. That’s all we want for you. We don’t want to see you spend your life supporting lies. Nobody is attacking you. We are trying to help you. Read those comments again.
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 October 18, 2014 at 6:03 am
 
RJ,
How is my comment in any way “hate speech”? I have only written my opinion and asked specific questions of you in a polite manner.
Trying to enlighten the general public to the serious problems in the WTBTS is not hate speech, not is it inspired by hatred.
Trying to enlighten current. JWs about the specific points I raised in my comment is not hate speech either. Where is the hate in my comment, RJ?
I think it far more hateful to do the things I raised, don’t you? To cover up child abuse – hateful. To advise women to stay with an abuseive partner and deny the chance to remarry in the Lord if this is used as a reason to divorce – hateful. To shun family members for simply not believing in the teachings of the WTBTS – hateful.
Please explain how any of my comments are “hate speech”?
Why do you think we are hateful? Why do you think that trying to help people is hateful?
I look forward with great interest your reply and your apology to me for implying in your comment that I am a hateful person.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 18, 2014 at 1:10 pm
 
I wanted to look at the replies as soon as I could because I was accused of staying away out of a fear. Read the latest bunch and they are all still pushing their dislike, disgust, hatred or whatever you want to call it towards JWs. As I have stated, you have all assumed that I am in your words an “indoctrinated” fool of some sort and that I should wake up. Everyone of you keep saying that I am pushing the truthfulness or correctness of JWs. This could be any further away from the actual facts.
I saw this sight and thought that it was one devoted to surveying people on a certain subject. Surveys are designed to be NEUTRAL and simply collect and report on various subjects.
All you people want to do is debate theology with a person who you perceive as being something that I am not. Not one of you have addressed the comments I have made concerning this web site and its blog. All you have done is wanted to spout out about your personal position as it relates to JWs. That is not the topic of which I blogged about and I have no desire in discussing a subject that I am not well versed in.
However, my background does surround statistics and statistical data. This web site’s “survey” is extremely unprofessional, non-scientific and prejudiced, in my opinion. Any one can take a little bit of info and make it whatever they want it to be. Politicians make a living doing this. I have never said even one word defending the beliefs of JWs, either individually or as an organization.
So that people like me are not confused in the future, maybe the domain name should be changed so as to not be so misleading. Mr. Nelken seems to have a lot to say about his position, unfortunately it has been directed to a person who blogged with an entire different SUBJECT and concern.
I have seen many websites that promote a particular philosophy or idea. That’s fine, no problem. I merely suggest in a humble way that you present it in that way and try better to not mislead and/or prejudge the participants. Cedars goes off on some long explanation of what an apostate is and admits he does not even identify himself. What’s wrong with being direct, honest and fair? Especially when you claim to be what this web site claims to be. I suggest, Mr. Nelken that you ask Cedars for a spot on the site and perhaps could call it Nelkens Corner or something. You could have meaningful dialog with people that want to talk about the subjects you want to talk about. Dominating a blog presented on a different subject and filling it with you rhetoric about JWs, “truth” or how your childhood was so bad is the subject for another place, in my opinion.
I am convinced that at this point, no one desires to address the subject that I initiated and frankly I do not want to waste time working on something that I am not qualified to discuss nor have any desire to hear about. It’s that simple.
 No Fear, no worries about me at all. I have not asked my JW friends about this site, but I can only guess that they have heard it all already, so I won’t bother them.
So good bye to all and I can only hope that you have peace.
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 18, 2014 at 1:32 pm
 
I would like to reply to you comment by saying that I am not in any position to prove with statistical data that your claims about abuse are right or wrong. Also, I know as a I am an experienced statistician, you take your position based on limited information. It would be absolutely impossible to state your position as being actuarially dependable unless you have actually conducted an exhaustive detailed research on the matter and have gathered information in a scientifically based manner about the subject.
To make claims that you say are definitely factual and then push these poorly conducted surveys, decisions, or whatever you want to call them is in my opinion motivated at least in part by some sort of hatred.
If you got the idea from my comment that I am branding you as a hateful person, and I see where you could, then for that I do apologize. Sometimes people who do not intend to be hateful can say things that appear to be filled with hate, especially when it comes to very emotionally charged issues, such as abuse.
But I do not apologize for my position about this web site being one that is misleading. I am the first person to say that you have the right to your position and beliefs. You may even have had some terrible things happen to you or someone close to you. I get that. However, you say that JWs encourage abuse and have non-existent policies to protect women. You can’t say that with total accuracy. You did say that you cannot find any policy to protect children within the JWs. That does not mean a policy does not exist!!
Now, please do not challenge me to search for one and inform you when I get it. You see, I don’t care about this issue enough to spend my time researching it. Child abuse is a terrible thing, but I do not think that whether JWs have one or not will solve the problem. My expertise is not in this area and so I would bring little to the table in an effort to this worldwide tragedy.
 Let me end by saying that I have empathy for anyone who is a victim of any type of abuse and if this has been something in your personal life, then I can only hope that you can get whatever peace you can at this time.
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 18, 2014 at 1:38 pm
 
My last comment was directed specifically to Excelsior.
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 18, 2014 at 5:24 pm
 
RJ, you keep bringing up your initial comment and nobody is addressing it? The title of this web site is giving a voice to the silent majority. It isn’t just about a survey. Did you miss that by any chance? I think maybe if you read a bunch of the subjects on the right hand of this web site, you might have more of an idea why we all comment. Unlike you, the people who do comment on this site, do know what they are talking about because we all are either Witnesses now or were. If you notice, some were or are elders.
From what you say, you want us to think that you just happened on this web site and thought it was just a “survey?”
The fact that you don’t want to ask your JW friends about this web site, says a lot too. Why not? Why don’t you want to ask them? I am very curious why not????? You seem to think they know all about it and so what is the point, which is totally against all the rules if they really do.
We pity anybody who is a JW and welcome anybody to come on here and defend the Watchtower. We want to hear some good things if you can think of it but the reason people don’t come back after trying to defend the Watchtower isn’t because they are proved right like what you said but have nothing to defend their side of the story. If they had something to defend the Watchtower, they would come back and show it to us but they don’t come back. We have all the current as well as all the old literature and extensive concordances and indexes so we can prove anything to you and them. That’s why they don’t come back.. They got nothing.
You claim you aren’t a Watchtower apologist but you sure sound like a Watchtower apologist to me. If you don’t care about it, then why are you posting here?
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 18, 2014 at 6:55 pm
 
Well, RJ, that was a load of ‘sound and fury signifying nothing.’ So it seems you are not a JW, and therefore feel no need to defend their beliefs and practices.
You have complained at length about this site having a misleading title and introduction. Your introduction of yourself has certainly misled many of us.
OK, you have some JW friends that you like. You actually wrote that. I can assume, therefore, that that is a fact. If you are not a JW, however, and assuming your JW friends actually believe that JW TRUTH is true, they believe that you, together with all all the ‘apostates’on this site, indeed together with all the billions of the world’s inhabitants that are not believing and practising JWs, are deserving of an imminent Armageddon death penalty.
My life improved immeasurably once I realised that this particular JW TRUTH (never mind all the other ever changing unevidenced ‘TRUTHS’) was cruel controlling nonsense. My childhood fears and nightmares were unnecessary. I wish to warn the world about the horrors that lie behind those neatly dressed, earnest and polite JW door knockers with their bags of mags. This site is one of many where that is possible. That the statistical survey element may not measure up to some standards employed by statisticians is a minor element.
‘Giving a voice to the silent majority’, however, is an excellent mission. I do not know how much you know about JWs. You have complained that we are demanding you be the Watchtower’s defender as many of us assumed you were a JW. You complained about the misleading title of this blog. You seem to have misled many of us into assuming you were a JW. Well, whatever your position, it is a fact that, within the JWs, dialogue is impossible. All communication is top down. THE TRUTH is invented by the guys at the top, the seven ‘divinely appointed’ ‘Faithful and Discreet Slave’ Gov. Bod. chaps, and then disseminated globally via the network of Kingdom Halls. The entire JW world is literally ‘on the same page’ (of the Watchtower) in any one week.
Discussion, dissent, even questioning of these DIVINE TRUTHS, is prohibited. Parroting is the order of the day. Armageddon execution is the threat that prevents any deviation from the New York TRUTH line.
Whether or not, RJ, you approve of deaths through the blood transfusion ban, split families through shunning, unnecessary terror as a result of the string of JW duff prophecies, split families through shunning, protection of paedophiles through the two witness rule and stunted lives through the frowning on higher education, these are the fruits of the 135 year JW ministry.
I do not understand why you object so strongly to a blog where those either still in the JW mental prison and those of us who have escaped, can have an opportunity, denied us in the strictly censored Kingdom Hall environment, to express our feelings about, and exchange information about, the Jehovah’s Witness organisation.
You complained about this blog’s misleading title. Anonymous has enlightened you as to its central purpose. I am not the only one who is utterly mystified as to why you object so strongly to this blog’s existence and purpose. It drove you, as you acknowledge, to fling unsubstantiated allegations of hate directed at you.
I do not doubt that you have good hearted JW friends. I remember some decent folk at my childhood Kingdom Hall. It is tragic that they had been beguiled by the slick mind control marketing style of the Watchtower to fritter their lives away as unpaid mag pushers.
I am glad that you disapprove of child abuse. Protection of paedophiles, however, is institutionalised in the JW world. That is just one of the evils of the organisation.
An explanation as to why you object so strongly to a site where facts about JWs can be revealed would be interesting. I know of no good that has come of the organisation since its foundation. Beyond the fact that it has ensnared some of your friends, JR, you have told us nothing about JWdom.
I hope you no understand why you have been misunderstood, and why your anger at this site’s very existence is a continuing mystery. Perhaps you could enlighten us.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 18, 2014 at 8:29 pm
 
You write alot, RJ, but you explain very little. It appears that you object to a site where the exchange of information and views on a destructive cult is enabled.
And on what grounds are your objections based?
That lies are posted?
No. Your objections are based on your view that the title ‘JW Survey’ is misleading and that you are a very clever actuary/ statistician or something.
You know now that it is a forum which, unlike the stifling Kingdom Hall, where even questions, let alone contrary opinions, are taboo, allows exchange of information and opinions.
So, do you still object to this site’s existence and mission?
If you do object, please explain why.
Remember, that if you are not a Jehovah’s Witness, JWs are told to believe tht you deserve an imminent execution at Armageddon.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 18, 2014 at 10:27 pm
 
Thus site does not only discuss the position of vulnerable women and children in the JWs. It raises all the other issues, every one of them negative, about the JWs.
For all that you have written wordily about the inefficient evidence (as you see it, from the POV of a highly professional , skilled and clever statistician) for the protection of paedos in the JWs, you must have noticed all the other horrors connected with the JWs.
As Anonymous says, whether you wished it or not, you come across as a JW apologist.
This suggests that though you may be a highly qualified, wise and perceptive statistician (or whatever) you are a very lame communicator.
I hope you are satisfied that this blog will continue until such time as Cedars decides to close it, or until some evidence that there is any truth in JW TRUTH is produced.
Until then it provides a very useful forum for the exchange of information about the JWs, whether the evils, of which there is plenty of evidence, or even the benefits. As to the latter no contributor here, including RJ, has ever produced any evidence that there have ever been any benefits to be gained from associating with the JWs.
I hope that one day this forum, and dozens like it, will become redundant. That, however, requires the utter transformation of the JWs, or, better still, the organisation’s elimination.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 18, 2014 at 10:34 pm
 
Correction – This site……
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 18, 2014 at 10:50 pm
 
As an expert statistician, RJ, you may care to assist, with your undoubted expertise, the Watchtower Society in their appeal against the conviction for protecting a child molester. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ELBt4mA7sI
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 October 19, 2014 at 3:43 am
 
RJ,
Thank you for your partial apology.
I have plenty of evidence to satisfy you on the topics I raised.
I am not a hateful person for wanting to protect children, women and all people from the negative policies and practices of the WTBTS.
 I am motivated by love, not hate.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 October 19, 2014 at 5:39 am
 
RJ,
Further to my last comment.
I have re read your comments, and I have a statistical question, for which I would appreciate your expert opinion.
How large a study, and what questions should be asked, to provide statistically valid evidence of the points that I have raised?
Do I need statistical data if I can site Watchtower official policy that verifies my point? I appreciate that I would have to have data showing that the policy was actually enforced.
I have done a little research on statistics, but I am by no means an expert.
I want to effect positive change for the rank and file Jehovah’s Witnesses. I do not want to destroy anything or anyone. I want children, young people and women to be free from abuse, or as free from abuse as is reasonably possible. I want the policies about domestic and child abuse written and enforced by the WTBTS to be in line with best practice as determined by experts in the relevant fields, not a group of well meaning but uninformed religious leaders.
Please be assured, RJ, my motives are not hateful. On the contrary, my love for my neighbour impels me to do what little I can to help resolve these problems amicably and inclusively. This is in line with Jesus’ teachings and I am convinced that all Christians would agree.
I would sincerely like to benefit from your expertise in statistics to improve our effectiveness in resolving the profound issues that are raised on this site.
Please provide me with some advice on improving our statistics, and I am sure that it will prove to be very helpful.
Peace be with you,
Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 19, 2014 at 7:10 am
 
RJ, I was wondering the same thing as Excelsior was wondering. According to most “worldy” statistics, the divorce rate, separation rate, suicide rate and depression rates among Jehovah’s Witnesses are among the highest of any other religion in the U.S. so I am very curious if the Society has ever ran any real statistics on these issues, rather than just issuing blanket statements like the JW’s have the lowest suicide rates, depression rates and are the best religion of keeping families together etc? Does the Society have any real data on these issues or do you just take their word for these statistics that they are so good among JW’s? Also according to “worldly” authorities, JW’s have the 2nd lowest income of any other religion in the U.S. and a lot of times, the reason for divorce is the lack of money. Do you have any real data from the Society as to income levels among JW’s? You seem to know a lot about statistics so maybe you can help us out there.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 October 19, 2014 at 10:04 am
 
A JW friend of mine who was a long time Elder used to tell me he believed in the 100% rule? Which was that if you took 100 local people in your neighborhood and 100 local average JW’s and compared their life styles with Crime, statistics, divorce, infidelity, broken families, divorces, suicides, and all the other problems that fac Society he said he believed the Witness percentage would only be Slightly better than the local 100 people. As an Elder you get to see all these issues in a closer range and he experienced it. I myself as a for Elder for 12-13 years experienced it also. There was tons of infidelity, homosexuality, Thievery, fraud, Adultery,Illegal drug issues,Rape, Abortion, Alcoholism,Suicide and even MURDER more than once. One Sister KILLED her Non JW Husband with a gun during a domestic abuse. She was Df’d and one year later re-instated and everyone at the KH was giving her hugs and saying welcome back bla, bla , bla? One Local Elder in the SF Bay Area In a neighboring Congregation was a serial Rapist and Home invasion Robber and had raped and Robbed at least 10 times before he got caught and sent to jail. All the time while he was doing this he was the Presiding Overseer in the Cong!
I am not making this stuff up. I sat in many of these type of meetings and heard it all. The point here is the JW’s are not much different than the Non JW’s. I will admit they are taught NOT to do these things but in reality they do them maybe not at the rate of Non JW”S but like my Elder friend said the 100% rule does apply here.
 The reason they have the 2nd lowest income of USA religions is bc they are discouraged and even ostracized about getting and education that can make them a decent living. Doing Janitorial work and washing windows only pays so much and that is only of you own the company.
As we all know the JW retention rate is also very low. After a few years of being a JW people begin to see the real JW World and the dictatorship it has become.
Reply
 
 
 Name says:

 October 19, 2014 at 10:23 am
 
http://tv.jw.org/#video/VODIntExp/docid-502013390_E_1_VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/user/johncedars1929
Compare attitude
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 19, 2014 at 11:09 am
 
Well these JW apologists certainly come in a range of varieties. There is, however, one binding feature. Not one can provide any evidence to suggest that there is any truth in JW TRUTH.
They all. however, in their different ways, cast aspersions on this blog. The last one, calling himself, RJ, was a very queer fish indeed. Initially he raged against this blog and appeared to all who read him, to be a JW apologist, indeed a JW himself.
As is now his custom, Cedars presented him with the video challenge, and promised that were evidence produced to demonstrate that JW TRUTH is true, he would take the blog down. As is transparently obvious to anyone not ensnared in the destructive JW mind control machine, there is no such evidence, and none was, of course, produced by RJ.
Unlike nearly all the other apparent or declared JWs, RJ did reappear; not however, with any evidence of the truth of JW TRUTH. He did not even offer, despite having received several requests, to tell us anything of the good things delivered by JWdom in its 135 year history.
He simply wrote a long screed accusing all contributors of spreading hatred, and boasting of his great credentials as a statistician; which credentials, he declared, qualified him to dismiss the ‘Survey’ word in the blog’s title as misleading. He had nothing, of course to say, which called into question the declared function of the blog, namely to give a voice to the silent majority.
He was persuaded, fortunately, to realise that he had not been in receipt of hatred. Any hatred in this blog is directed at the murderous and deceitful JW bosses.
Surprisingly, however, he denied being a JW apologist. This is most puzzling. JWs are ordered, on pain of Armageddon execution, not only to apolgise for their faith, but to spend all their time and resources promoting its wondrous TRUTH.
He had mentioned having some good JW friends. He has now been reminded that, if he is not a JW, his JW friends, indeed the whole global community of JWs, are looking forward to the day of Armageddon when RJ is executed. His very existence, as a non JW, is an impediment to the establishment of the JWs’ fantasy Paradise Earth.
Whether we have heard the last of RJ on this blog I have not a clue. He has, however, whatever he is, whether, JW, non JW, apologist, non apologist, believer or no, done the Watchtower exposure movement sterling service. Any casual reader will note that nobody, despite a whole battery of requests, is able to furnish any evidence of any benefits ever delivered by JWdom and certainly has never provided any evidence for the truth of its ever changing, obscene and ridiculous TRUTHS.
Well done, RJ! Keep up the good work!
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 20, 2014 at 12:32 pm
 
I changed my mind and I decided to respond one more time to explain my comments and hopefully remove doubt as to my intentions. I wrote a long comment and it was evidently rejected because of length, I will break it up into parts.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 20, 2014 at 12:40 pm
 
I read a long comment of yours, RJ. That it was posted and read means it was not rejected.
Certainly your attitude to the JWs is not clear. No one seems to know whether you are or are not a JW or a JW apologist. That is nothing to do with length and everyhting to do with your ambiguity.
All you have made clear thus far, though subsequent comments may enlighten us on other matters, is that you do not like this blog and you rate yourself highly as a statistician.
Reply
 
 
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About JW Survey

A message from the founder of JWsurvey.org…
It is my pleasure to give you a warm welcome to JWsurvey.org. This website has been launched to give voice to millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world who would not normally have the opportunity to say what they really think about the Watch Tower Society, or the teachings and practices of the Governing Body.
The Governing Body has yet to express any interest in hearing the views of ordinary witnesses. Their mantra is: “We talk, you listen!”

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, or a former Witness, you will be aware that the opinions of rank and file publishers (and even elders) are rarely sought by the Society. The small number of men making up the Governing Body have declared themselves the “faithful and discreet slave” of Matthew 24:45, thus claiming sole control over the organization’s teachings and policies. These men are most certainly NOT interested in the opinions of the “silent majority” of Witnesses under their authority. If they are, they have a strange way of showing it!
This website seeks to redress that balance by means of an annual survey that is conducted anonymously throughout the world. The first survey was taken in 2011, and immediately attracted the opinions of 1,118 voters before closing at the end of the year. The results were posted to the Governing Body for their attention and review but, predictably, they never replied.
The following year, 2012, the survey received votes from 1,488 current and former Witnesses, most of whom expressed their concern at various Watchtower teachings. The remarkable events of that year (the Candace Conti case and the “new light” about the faithful slave) certainly seemed to get people talking. Subsequent surveys promise to attract even more attention as our website steadily grows in popularity.
A website for all
This site has been created and made available online so that anyone, whether they are a former or current Witness, or in some way associated with Witness friends or relatives, can give their honest opinions about the organization and its governance.
We adopt a strictly non-religious viewpoint, meaning that we refuse to promote any belief structure in particular. For this reason, we cannot be accused of trying to “draw off followers.” We are merely interested in garnering the views of ordinary Witnesses and reporting on the facts.
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses has not authorized or sponsored this survey, and it is run entirely without any influence or input from them. However, we genuinely feel that the brothers who serve on the Governing Body, having assumed such overwhelming responsibility, should take note of how ordinary Witnesses and the general public feel about their leadership, since millions of lives are affected by decisions they make at their private weekly meetings.
Who started this website?
I write under the name John Cedars. Until recently I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I left for conscientious reasons. You can read my story on this link.
I first had the idea to begin gathering the opinions of Jehovah’s Witnesses and their associates around the world because of a variety of issues that continue to be of real concern to me. I believe that ordinary Witnesses who devote their entire lives to loyally serving Jehovah, through what purports to be God’s spirit-directed organization, should have some say in the decisions that are made on their behalf.
It is my belief that not all is well within the organization, and many of the teachings and practices encouraged by the Governing Body are not formulated with the best interests of ordinary Witnesses at heart.
An unmerciful practice
For example, take the practice of shunning or “disfellowshipping.” The Apostle Paul’s words to the Corinthian congregation were as follows: “But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man… remove the wicked man from among yourselves.” (1 Cor 5:11,12)
Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians about the disfellowshipping arrangement never called for family members to be torn apart

Clearly the Apostle Paul was delivering this admonition for the purpose of keeping the congregation clean. But to what extent should these words be applied? By saying “not even eating with such a man,” Paul indicated that his words weren’t directed against family members (who would daily eat with one another), but against other brothers in the congregation with whom one might consider sharing a meal.
There is no reason to insist that the word “anyone” should be applied arbitrarily to “everyone,” irrespective of age or circumstances. Even Watchtower publications acknowledge that there should be some exceptions where family members are concerned. For example, a disfellowshipped husband is not to be shunned by his wife or children, and parents are not banned from speaking to their disfellowshipped children if they are not yet old enough to leave home. But why should it end there?
Many share my opinion that there is scope to extend even more mercy in applying this scripture than is currently encouraged by the teachings of the Governing Body. Jesus said the following to the unrighteous pharisees: “Go, then, and learn what this means: ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.” (Matthew 9:13, New World Translation)
Jesus identified mercy as playing a crucial role in the extent to which laws and principles should be enforced. Many do not think it is merciful that older teenagers, many of whom were baptized at an extremely young age, are forced out of their homes by their parents and then cruelly shunned, often for the rest of their lives, through a mistaken and abhorrent interpretation of the Apostle Paul’s advice.
The Society’s publications themselves warn that “no one should be forced to… choose between his beliefs and his family.” (July 2009 Awake!, p.9) However, they apply this reasoning to every religion but their own.
The scriptures clearly prescribe “shunning” purely as a measure for maintaining the spiritual cleanliness of the congregation, and not for the purpose of breaking up families. To go one step further and insist that shunning should also apply to families is both destructive and deeply unmerciful. It also violates the principle expressed by the Apostle Paul at 1 Timothy 5:8 where he said, “Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.”
These and other teachings of the Governing Body are increasingly becoming a cause of sincere distress for many Witnesses who wish that the organization could adopt a more merciful and loving stance. In particular, one can now be disfellowshipped as an “apostate” merely for disagreeing with the Governing Body over this or other issues.
Only human
It is my sincere desire that by means of this website, and its surveys, the Governing Body will humbly consider the pleas of both myself and like-minded ones around the world who long for the Watch Tower Society to be a more loving organization – one that is truly observant of the need for respect and tolerance toward other people’s beliefs.
The members of the Governing Body are only human, and no matter how much they may pray for wisdom and insight, they cannot possibly be fully aware of how their teachings and directives are impacting the lives of their fellow worshippers on a daily basis. That is what makes this survey website so important. It serves as a constant reminder for them to show greater kindness and mercy in undertaking the role that they have assumed as the faithful and discreet slave.
I would like to thank you in advance for your support for this site, and for getting involved in our important work.
Warmest regards,
 
new-cedars-signature2

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332 Responses to About JW Survey

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 RJ says:

 October 20, 2014 at 12:52 pm
 
I have an extensive background in the sciences of math, but directly in the application of data for use in making various predictions and assumptions, using various mathematical sciences, including the Law of Large Numbers.
Data gathered from various sources, such as official statistical records, surveys, polls, past events, etc. can be used to make some assumptions and be quite accurate, although not exact in a literal sense. This allows the weatherman to predict the future, insurance companies to predict death (mortality tables), pollsters to predicted the outcome of an election, etc. In order for the results of the collection of date to be reliable, there are definite requirements that must be met in order for the conclusions (predictions) to be accurate. The are:
 1. An adequate amount of absolute accurate must be used to give the findings credibility
 2. The integrity of the collected data must be verifiable. If the data used is not accurate, then the results are tainted and cannot be used
 3. The conclusions reached in regard to the project must come directly from the results of the information gathered.
I will address these individually.
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 20, 2014 at 1:05 pm
 
1. The Law of Large Numbers, a mathematical science requires an adequate sampling of data. In other words, the amount of data required in a sampling is in direct proportion to the size of the entire. The larger the entire group, the larger the sampling must be.
Now, lets look at the survey by Cedars that I took. As I understand it, approx. 3-4,000 responses have been measured. It make it a bit easier, let’s just say that it is actually 10,000. If the total pool is the entire earth( internet is almost everywhere) that’s one thing. Let’s assume that the pool is just one country, say the U.S.
Here are the numbers:
 if worldwide 0.000001428% responded
 if just U..S 0.00003125% responded
In either of the above cases, the sampling(homogeneous units) a such a minute amount in relation to the larger pool that the results cannot be relied upon from a scientific standpoint. Therefore, because the data is so small, the conclusions arrived at cannot be relied upon.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 20, 2014 at 1:18 pm
 
I am sure an essay on the predictive value of statistics will be very interesting. I have no idea, however, what on earth it has to do with this blog.
Has anyone here made any predictions based on a small and utterly random sample of data?
Has anyone here made claims for the value of statistics based on data of negligible volume and gathered with no regard to method or sampling?
If they have I have missed it. This appears to me simply to be a forum where those who, either by direct experience or other means of getting to know the Jehovah’s Witnesses, can share information and express their views.
I have never read any claims by anyone that the contributors are representatitve in age, country, rank or depth of involvement in the JW business.
To those who know anything at all about the JW organisation there are only 7 individuals out of 8 million members who have a voice. The title of this blog explains that it is a place where the majority can express their opinions.
That every opinion expressed here about the JW business is negative may well be coincidence. It does, however, seem remarkable, that even those contributors who claim to be active JW members have not, so far as I am aware, described any positive achievements of the Watchtower outfit in its 135 year history. Despite repeated invitations none has presented a jot of evidence to suggest that JW TRUTH might be true.
A series of essays on the predictive value of statistics and the validity of data may well be very interesting and enlightening. So, also, would an illustrated talk on sunspots, breeding Persian cats or making vegetable curry.
None, however, would bear much relevance to the exchange of information and experiences on the misery making JW cult.
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 20, 2014 at 1:19 pm
 
Next, the data must be accurate in the literal sense. If the data is not verifiable and from a varied source in a scientific way, then it is not reliable. For example, just because I say it, that doesn’t make it fact. Also, if I poll 100,000 people and ask them if Jesus Christ is our savior, and the mast majority respond negatively, it is of no value when we find out that the poll was conducted in a country where most people are Muslim.
When I apply this requirement to the survey on this website, here is the problem.
 Can the responses be verified? Did any people respond more that once, simply using a different email address? From what group of individuals was the survey taken? Did the responders answer honestly and in an accurate manner? The answers to these questions are not known in a definite way. Therefore, they cannot be relied upon from my viewpoint.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 20, 2014 at 1:23 pm
 
RJ. Has Cedars made any claims that this survey has scientific validity?
I have never read any such claim. If he has please enlighten us.
If he has not, your remarks are an irrelevance.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 20, 2014 at 1:36 pm
 
It may well be that the bulk of 8 million JWs worldwide actually believe that JW TRUTH, in all its mutations and flip flops is TRULY TRUTHFUL TRUE TRUTH.
They may well believe that the 7 Gov. Bod. members are God’s exclusive earthly reps. and that the bulk of the world’s population, who do not live their lives according to their every diktat, are indeed controlled by Satan and fully deserve an imminent execution.
If that is the case, then this site, along with the growing number of sites which tell the truth about JW TRUTH can only be a good thing.
Those of us who have left, and there is a growing number, feel strongly enough about the horrors of JWdom to campaign to expose the organisation, and hopefully, to get it transformed or eliminated.
The handful of believing JWs who have contributed here presumably believe this obscene nonsense. None, however, has supplied any evidence to support this bizarre and ghastly contention.
Of course, pro and anti, we who have written here are but a small and random sample, and nobody has made any claims to the contrary.
Do you imagine, RJ, that an essay on statistics is a substitute for your persistent failure to answer questions? Do you imagine, RJ, that an essay on statistics is a substitute for being utterly unclear in explaining your position regarding the Jehovah’s Witnesses?
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 20, 2014 at 1:43 pm
 
Finally, assumptions and conclusions must be directly as a result of the results of the study.
For example, let’s say I start my own church and I get 5 members in the first year. Then at the end of the second year I now have 100 members. That is a fantastic increase, perhaps making my new church the fastest growing church in the world! And that may be true in once sense. Now, as a result of my data, I conclude that my church has what you folks on this blog refer to as the “truth” and my church is the true church. You would say that I must be some kind of a nut to assert such conclusions.
Well, I have read conclusions and opinions from many on this blog that I think fit in this same category.
Read them. JW are the leaders in the US in divorce, separation, suicide, depression, etc. You say they are among the lowest in the US in income. Where’s the data?
Divorce and separation statistics do not include specific religion info.
 Suicide numbers are determined by death certificates, which do not list religious affiliation.
 Income reports are not based on religion
 Even census reports are vague when it comes to religious connections
 HIPPA laws are so restrictive, it would be impossible to link depression (a medical condition) to a specific religion.
Cedars gives me the impression that the board of directors of the JWs (GB as you refer to them) do not reply to his submitted results because of a fear of the truth or something. In the real world, there is not a statistics expert, mathematics scientist that would take value in Cedar’s survey from a scientific view let alone a logical one , so why would the JW’s hierarchy?
Also, financial stability, growth and/or any other financial data cannot be derived by the statistics presented on this web site concerning the number of magazines printed and the frequency or size of such. The first year student in a financial class in high school knows that a P&L and balance sheet over a period of time is the tool to determine financial strength.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 20, 2014 at 1:49 pm
 
Why areyou so keen to set up this straw man, RJ, of a rigourous and fool proof survey?
No such claim has been made.
All you are doing is writing the sort of stuff on stats that is common knowledge to us lay folk.
OK, we know you are proud of your pedigree in statistics. You have trumpeted it. Congratulations on getting to know the basics of this subject and sharing some basic principles on here. Do you grow roses? Breed goldfish? Race stock cars?
If you do we’d love to know.
What, however, would be even more interesting would be for you to explain your involvement, if any, with the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and, if you approve of the organisation, whether you can enlighten us as to any of its benefits.
Most contributors on here, and we do not claim to be a representative sample of anything; we are a random bunch; know only of horrible and negative things about the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Some of your earlier posts suggested you did not like reading negative things about the JWS.
You have been asked repeatedly to tell us of anything positive about the JWs, but you have declined.
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 20, 2014 at 1:50 pm
 
As I attempt to explain myself, here goes Rowland Nelken again, pushing the same old sarcasm, accusations, condescending talk about me as a person.
Don’t you get it Rowland? The tab I clicked on is labeled “About JWsurvey”. I responded to tell what I think about JW Survey. All you want it to be about is you, your bad life experiences and a debate about JWs.
You say you do not see the people here on this blog and the website itself voicing conclusions that are at this time opinions and not established fact?
You make all types of challenges to me, knowing that I have already told you I will not discuss things that are above my knowledge level.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 20, 2014 at 1:56 pm
 
What wonderful modesty, RJ!
You will not explain things that are above your knowledge level.
So you do not know whether you are or were a Jehovah’s Witness.
You do not know whether there are benefits that have resulted, for anyone anywhere, during the 135 year ministry of the JWs.
You do not know whether you are an apologist for the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
You do not know of any evidence which might suggest that JW TRUTH is true.
How very peculiar!
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 20, 2014 at 2:05 pm
 
R.J. I don’t know if you know much about our religion but none of us are allowed to converse with each other on any of the questions or doubts that we may have in this religion, that are in Cedar’s survey. If we were to start asking each other those questions, even within our own families, we’d be labeled apostates and will be disfellowshipped or shut up permanently from being able to talk to our friends in any of the congregations and even our own families. That is the point for this web site.
Lloyd set it up so that we could converse with each other so that we’d know that we are not the only ones who have certain doubts about the Organization. Until I found this website, I thought I was all alone in my pain and almost suicidal because of what this religion has done to me and I had absolutely nobody to talk to. This “survey” has literally saved my life.
If you delve more into the intent of Cedar’s website, you will see what it’s really all about. As a matter of fact, if the Society would send out surveys to see how the silent majority really feel about this religion, they’d have their eyes opened to the fact that what is keeping the “silent” majority of us entrapped in this religion is the fear of Armageddon and the guilt trip placed on all Witnesses that the whole world of mankind will die unless we get out there and preach. Maybe that’s why you will never see any surveys from the Society and in fact, you won’t ever see any of the Governing Body even answering any questions from the rank and file and especially of those who have disassociated themselves. Are they afraid of what they’d see in any surveys? I think so.
Also, what keeps Witnesses from using their brains to test that they really do have the truth, is that if they should test that they are in the “truth”, they are telling the Organization that they no longer have faith that they (Governing Body) are God’s chosen mouthpiece and anyone calling into question the Society’s claim, will be called before a committee for apostasy.
We are not allowed to “test” that we have the true religion. We just have to take the Society’s word for it. Nobody should ever be afraid to test that they have the right religion.
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 20, 2014 at 2:12 pm
 
When it comes to hate, simply read the posts from the bloggers here. Hate does not have to be toward individuals to be hate. It can be hatred for a group, an organization, even a thought. Hatred is commonly displayed via sarcasm, demeaning statements, condescending talk and the like. Rowland Nelken is a shining example of this, simply read Rowland’s comments. He/she is so wrapped up in trying to dominant me with his/her tongue, belittle me when I try to share info I DO know about and advance his/her opinion that he/she cannot allow him/herself to look at this site through the eyes of a person who is not marching in step with his/her ideology. I confidently say that if I was qualified to debate the merits of JWism with you, I would not. You are much too abusive of a person for me to deal with on an adult level.
You have accused me of being a JW, a JW apologist, arrogant, the list of personal attacks go on. When in reality, you do no know me from Adam. However, in your words old “geezers” should not be followed. I am proud to be what you call an old “geezer” in that I have been alive for quite a while. If you are a male, you too are either an old “geezer” or working every day to become one in time. By your abuses to me personally here, perhaps even a “bitter old geezer”. That is sad.
Show your true self more evident. Reply to this last message of mine and lay it on as thick as what makes you think enhances your image amongst your peers here on this blog. God forbid any of them disagree with you.
Reply
 
 
 RJ says:

 October 20, 2014 at 2:54 pm
 
P.S. I didn’t see the comment from anonymous until I posted the last comment. So this one IS definitely my last.
Anonymous, read your last post to me very closely. Your complaint about JWs is I am sure from your heart. Read what type of person Rowland, a major contributor since I first commented, is. I think you will see exactly what you claim about the JW organization. Rowland thinks there is no other viable view, Rowland attacks when something contrary to Rowland’s views are expressed, Rowland belittles, verbally bashes with sarcasm and apparently has no respect for a doubter. Rowland refuses to listen to the talk of someone else when it disagrees with him/her. This is not heresay or opinion, it comes from Rowland’s mouth directly.
Finally, Rowland, in my opinion would NOT be the source of relief from what you say is your current situation, because Rowland has shown me he/she to be exactly what you say has made you suicidal.
Read Rowland’s abusive comments and such and ask yourself if that is the type of person you would want as an advisor or mentor. If your answer is yes, then you have arrived. If not, stay away from that person and any who are similar.
Read Rowland’s response to this and he/she will prove once more what I say is true.
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 20, 2014 at 3:35 pm
 
Hi R.J. I too am old. I married a JW man who was an elder and used me as his personal punching bag for the first 15 years of our marriage until my oldest daughter was now old enough to be a “witness” to his abuse. When I finally did get up the courage to report his abuse it was when I was 8 months pregnant with my 2nd baby and he punched me in the stomach with his fist, I didn’t get a listening ear even then. The other elder told me that it was understood because of all the pressure “HE” was going through because of his job of being an elder.
I could write a book about the abuse that I have had to live through because of this religion. If you know anything about this religion, a woman is not free to go to the elders and get a listening ear if the husband is an elder or if you don’t have witnesses. It’s a man’s world in the religion and if a woman wants to get a divorce, she will be labeled and shunned. I am not alone. Men also suffer I am sure and I assume that Rowland has his own story to tell. When you are in this religion, you can have a drunkard for a husband, an adulterer for a husband, an abuser for a husband and nobody is allowed to tell the others in the congregation or even family members how you have suffered. You are not even allowed to tell the police about your abuse. You are not allowed to confide in family members if you are in this religion. That is the way it is set up.
To say that we all have our own stories is a given when we come onto Lloyd’s web site. It has been a life-saver for all of us, I am sure. We have all been led to believe when we became a Witness that it was a loving and Godly organization but when you become one, you will quickly see that it’s run by 8 men in New York and anything BUT Godly. Everyone who is a true believer equate the 8 men in New York as Jehovah God. They won’t admit it, but it’s true. You can try and talk to them that it’s not true that they equate the Organization as Jehovah, but they have been brainwashed and it’s like talking to a brick wall to get anybody to see that.
This web site helps us all who come on here to see that we aren’t alone and it’s therapy for us, since we are also not allowed to even seek professional help because as the elder’s secret book says, that if we seek professional help, we can’t divulge anything that is confidential, ie. abuse.
Do you understand why Rowland could be bitter and overly sensitive to a Watchtower apologist? I sure can. That is the situation you need to take into account when you might perceive a comment as against you. It isn’t against you as a person. It’s against anybody who will defend the indefensible (the lying organization known as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society). That is why we are always asking people if they want to defend the Society, please come forward with something that can make us feel that we didn’t waste our lives on it. We welcome that. We don’t hate anybody who can do that. We’d be eternally grateful if you could do that.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 October 20, 2014 at 4:28 pm
 
I have been following Rowland and RJ conversations with interest. IN my opinion it is time to let it go for both. The conversations are both going negative and have no purpose anymore between the 2 of you.. They have just turned into a spitting match now. However, Rowland asked some simple questions of RJ that he just doesn’t want to answer about his affiliation with the JW’s etc. RJ seemed to get away from the point here and go in the direction of a scientific survey etc. All this site does is take the surveys that come in an d most are from JW’s or former JW’s.Rj His his reasons for not wanting to disclose his affiliation with JW’s so just let it be. If he wants to or does not want to support the WT that is his choice. We who were or are JW’s had very good reasons for leaving when we did. I agree with Rowland on his life experiences in the WT Org and many are similar to my own and many other current and former JW’s. As an Elder for many years and an Assembly coordinator at times and popular guest speaker I know what Rowland is saying is true for many. RJ, one point you brought out in your comments about Hate and your explanation o fit is very true for the WT organization itself.
For example Hatred for a group is shown through Sarcasm, Demeaning Speech,
 demeaning statements, demeaning talks, hatred for a group etc. If we are honest with ourselves these are the very traits and speech the WT and GB teach and hold for all other religions, Calling them the Harlot, Babylon the great,
 All under the influence of Satan the devil. They also hold the same teachings and hatred towards ANY one who leaves the organization and decides through their own free will or on things they have experienced and learned AFTER becoming a JW that they no longer want to be a JW they call them “MENTALLY Diseased” or followers of Satan or other negative hurtful names and they attempt to turn entire families, parents, and friends against them for making a free will decision. Their teaching like this is a built in propaganda machine intended to have the flock be in fear of ever leaving. It isn’t based on any love they have for the flock. In all honesty RJ I am sure you have to agree that the what the WT does in these teachings qualifies to your definition of hate?
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 20, 2014 at 7:35 pm
 
Why is it that when JWs (and RJ too, for all that he/she will not answer a simple question about his or her relationship with the JWs) are faced with some basic information about the Watchtower and asked some simple questions they accuse the questioner and bringer of information of ‘hate’?
This seems to be typical. I find it ironic, that though, I wish JWs the world over a life of freedom from the negative and destructive control of the Watchtower, and thus the chance of a fulfilled life, believing JWs, on the other hand, wish me a violent death at Armageddon along with the bulk of the world’s population.
The WT’s lit. and talks are filled with hatred towards the entire world beyond the control of the Gov. Bod. Those who are successfully persuaded to believe and preach the JWs’ message of hate, seem also conditioned to accuse of hatred one who wishes them the joys of the fresh air of freedom.
This is very odd.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 21, 2014 at 12:34 am
 
I read no abuse in my comments, RJ. I read only unanswered questions. In the JW world asking questions of ‘God’s Organisation’ is considered abusive.
Is this, RJ, where your misunderstanding and misconceptions arise?
If you are a JW, RJ, I wish you freedom from the malign and destructive clutches of the Watchtower bosses.
What attitude you might take to life thereafter I have no idea. It is not my affair, and on this thread, contrary to your misconceptions, I have not advocated any theological view, still less belittled those of others. (Save, of course, those of self styled JW defenders, who, when asked to substantiate their defence, have never offered anything save unsubsatnatiated accusations of hate).
Best wishes, RJ, and, if you are a JW, here’s to your escape!
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 21, 2014 at 2:03 am
 
Hi Rowland. I think some have more cognitive dissonance and are harder to convince than others. Yesterday I was telling my husband (a born in) about how I don’t care if somebody from the Hall won’t listen to me and they want to believe in the Society, that’s their choice but what bothers me the most is, is the Society taking advantage of the brothers and sisters. I brought up how deceitful that was for the elders to read only the first page of that 4 page letter to the congregations on how the Society wasn’t making the congregations pay back their loans but then a few weeks later, the same elders were to tell (not ask) the congregation how they were going to send the Society the same amount of money every month anyway (not to read the next 3 pages that the elders had in that letter). I told my husband it was a scheme to defraud the congregations out of their money, especially if the loan had already been paid off (ours was). All he could say to me in his come back was “I know how much you care about money” and then he points to his belly and says back to me “I am not going hungry”. I accused him of being programmed and of course he’s not programmed and it’s not a cult. They can’t think. It’s as simple as that.
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 21, 2014 at 2:28 am
 
and Rowland to add to my last comment……Before I “woke” up, nobody could have reasoned with me either. I had to get to the bottom, to reach out for some help and that’s when I started looking at so-called “apostate” stuff on the internet. So, right now, I am glad it had to get that bad for me, or I’d still be in that depressing religion.
Last night I was watching a youtube video on how a Mormon Bishop woke up from that religion and it was when he finally thought about what Satan told Eve that she’d be like God if she ate the fruit. It was a simple little thing like that. I remember arguing with my husband and he said something like our religion is the only one that has sayings of everlasting life (quoting the Bible) and I said yes, but that’s what Satan told Eve, that she’d never die. He looked at me funny. It didn’t work on him like that guy from the Mormon religion but at least he stopped talking and thought about it for a moment.
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 October 21, 2014 at 4:01 am
 
RJ,
I thank you for attempting to answer my questions on statistics. Your replies were enlightening and I thank you for them.
However, you did not answer my second question, which is a pity, as it was the one I really wanted an answer to.
In the absence of your input, here is my opinion on this site and the survey element.
Candace Conti has been awarded $28 million for the abuse she suffered whilst a JW. You can look this case up, including all the court documents, RJ. We have all the letters to Elders, we have the entire Shepherding the Flock of God book, which is issued to elders only, and is not to be shown to rank and file members. This book has the child protection policy in it. It is plain as day that the child protection policy of the WTBTS is not fit for purpose. We also have numerous other cases that prove this point. Do we have statistics to prove that the child protection policy is not fit for purpose that match your criteria, RJ? No we don’t. In my opinion, we do not need statistics to prove this. Do you agree?
This site’s survey is for information only. It does not describe itself as anything but a chance for JWs and ex JWs to express their opinions on topics and questions set by Lloyd. This survey is then sent to the GB for their perusal.
 Lloyd does not have the infrastructure or the ability (he is viewed as an apostate and he would be shunned and is shunned by his family) to survey all JWs. I’m sure that he would be delighted to have that opportunity! So, his sample size is a small percentage of all JWs. This does not negate its usefulness. It can still aid the GB to understand the concerns of that particular sample group.
RJ, the three points I originally raised with you are facts. The child protection policy is not fit for purpose. Women are not given protection from domestic abuse and are advised to stay with their abusive partner. People who leave or are removed from the JW religion are shunned. These are statements of fact, RJ.
There is evidence to back up all three of the above statements, whether large statistical studies back these up or not.
I hope that you will undertake your own personal research on these topics, RJ. Your JW friends may not even realise that these things are going on in their church. How do you feel about that? Are you going to help your JW friends know what is going on in their church, RJ?
Please, RJ, do your research. There is evidence for all of the problems I raised in my initial response to your first comment.
Finally, I would like to answer your first point. I do not think that this site is biased. If it were, then it would not direct people to read the WT’s publications for themselves, would it? It would not provide the chance for sincere JWs to comment here, would it?
I hope that you will conduct your own research and that you will contribute your expertise to helping children, young people, women and all the rank and file of the JW religion to fully understand what is really going on.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 October 21, 2014 at 4:13 am
 
anonymous,
Dear lady, I am so sorry for the abuse you suffered from your “Christian husband”. It makes me sick to my stomach that any human being could be so cruel and violent, especially to a pregnant woman. I am humbled by your strength and I wish you peace and comfort from your pain and suffering at the hands of this terrible religion.
We are all trying, in our own ways, to bring an end to this disgusting abuse of women in the WTBTS. Your courageous story has made me even more determined to help end this domestic abuse in the WTBTS. Its advice to women suffering this unspeakable crime is disgusting! The bar on remarrying “in the Lord” if a divorce is obtained because of this disgusting abuse if the abuser has not confessed adultery is revolting! It is not in any way Christian.
You have my deep and sincere respect, anonymous. It takes real courage and compassion to leave a cult at your stage in life, and after all the sacrifices you have made for it. You are an excellent example to us all, dear lady.
Peace be with you
 Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 21, 2014 at 4:30 am
 
Thanks for all your comments, guys. The more I read of the comments of other people’s JW experience, and this site provides an excellent opportunity, the more I realise how I got off relatively lightly.
Only my mother was a committed JW, and with my sister, I ran away from her to our gran’s as mum was utterly neglectful. So fixated was she on the JW New World fantasy, that she thought it not worth while, in terms of home making or childcare, to ‘patch up the old world’. Was that her phrase or did she pick it up at the Kingdom Hall I wonder.
For all that it was a God delivered absolute TRUTH when I was achild, readers here may be surprised to learn that Armageddon did not occur before the end of the 20th century. With my mind rid of JW misery nonsense by my twenties I have been free to live a fairly fulfilled life.
My detestation of the JWs, if ever expressed to non JWs in pre internet days, met with bafflement. I had begun to wonder whether the problem was with me. It is this site, and dozens, if not hundreds like it, all over the internet, reassure me that I am not alone. It was not me, but something rotten at the heart of JWdom.
Is it merely coincidence that it is not merely this site where JWs and sympathisers have nothing positive to tell about the achievements of JWdom in its 135 year history? No JW, ever, anywhere, has provided such information, and certainly no JW has been able to furnish evidence that there might be any truth in JW TRUTH.
Would a statistically valid and wide ranging survey come up with any positives or any evidence?
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 October 21, 2014 at 4:35 am
 
RJ,
On re reading your comments I spotted an error. You compare the total who have taken the Survey on JW Survey WITH THE POPULATION OF THE ENTIRE USA.
The whole population of the USA are not JWs.
You should compare the sample size to the total number of JWs worldwide, which is around 7 to 8 million.
Would you like to re-run your numbers with this correction? I’m sure the figures will look a lot more like a decent sample size now.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 anonymous says:

 October 21, 2014 at 4:42 am
 
Thank you for that Excelsior. It has not been easy and I don’t wish that life on any other person. I want the Watchtower to come crashing down so as to save others from the pain that so many of us have had to go through and are still going through. It doesn’t deserve life. I hope to live long enough to see it.
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 October 21, 2014 at 5:23 am
 
What a great observation! “Many who are alive today, will never die!” I have heard those very words coming from the podium at the Kingdom Hall, and from my mother. I was never a JW.
The every day JW has very little hope to hang onto, so they must cling to this one belief, and somehow find comfort in the fact that the majority of their loved ones are going to be destroyed… Very soon.
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 October 21, 2014 at 5:59 am
 
I wanted to add that I have followed this conversation with great interest, although I admit that I find myself skimming over the lessons on statistics and accusations of hateful speech. It sounds like RJ is on a personal mission of some type. I hope you are able to find some peace.
If it is statistics about the Watchtower that you are looking for, I congratulate you for looking at other opinions and viewpoints. Any JW will tell you that you are NOT to listen to what anyone says about them. They will tell you to, “Go to the source!” (Do you think the JW is going to give you any negative opinion of the Society they have dedicated their lives to, even if they personally have doubts about the men they serve? Not without repercussions… Therefore this website has provided a way for these wounded and frightened people to have a small outlet to voice their concerns, even if it is only to one another.)
Kudos to you, RJ, for checking their references and visiting this site. There are several forums on the internet, filled with people who can tell you the truth about the “Truth.” I hope you will continue your research and evidence gathering.
There are many wounded people who visit here, and all deserve compassion.
Thank you all for sharing your experiences. As has been said many times, it helps to know that we are not alone. This religion has infiltrated our family, and has now ripped my family in half.
My feelings about this site (about jwsurvey) are of sheer gratitude. A lot of effort goes into managing a website like this one, and from my viewpoint, it seems that Cedars does a pretty good job at keeping the volume at a dull roar.
I have never been a JW, but sincerely considered it. I have read some recent articles from their magazines, and their proclamations and claims are very dynamic indeed. Their warnings and instructions to the JW people, are alarming to an intelligent reader who is standing outside the tower, simply trying to promote peace within their own family.
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 October 21, 2014 at 7:57 am
 
anonymous,
I hope that you get your wish, dear lady. I shall do all I can to make it so.
Peace be with you,
Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 October 21, 2014 at 8:18 am
 
The Pew Research Centre is staffed by professionals. Their JW survey confirmed the low level of education, the high level of dropouts and the relative instability of marriage within JWdom. http://freeminds.org/psych/pew_survey.htm
Reply
 
 
 Cedars says:

 October 31, 2014 at 12:17 am
 
RJ – “In the real world, there is not a statistics expert, mathematics scientist that would take value in Cedar’s survey from a scientific view let alone a logical one , so why would the JW’s hierarchy?”
If the simple opportunity for current and Ex JWs to voice their opinion in a survey format doesn’t thrill you, you will be pleased to know that this website has attracted the interests of a University that will be partnering with us to gather meaningful data on shunning. More information will soon follow. Will you be helping us spread the word, so that as many as possible can take part and firm conclusions can be drawn, whatever those may be?
Reply
 
 
 Rene Hader says:

 November 8, 2014 at 9:00 am
 
Thank you John for being a voice for us all. I found you while searching the internet yesterday for support and more information as I am about to turn yet another corner in my non-witness life journey. I appreciate your style of presentation as it is both kind as well as bold. It’s just what I’ve been waiting for. I look forward to being a part of this amazing circle of great people who simply want to live their lives in love and be happy. Good luck and all the best to you, I’m here to join in and help make a difference right along with you…
Reply
 
 
 William Draper says:

 November 16, 2014 at 9:20 pm
 
I have one of the very first books published, that claimed that made the claim that end would be many years ago , I was very impressed by it’s sincerity and depth of knowledge of scripture , but it very wrong about some things .
Reply
 
 
 Holy Conolli says:

 November 17, 2014 at 1:56 am
 
William. I also have many , many early books and writings and even current books all “CLAIMING” that the end was imminent. None of he things they have prophesied has come true. Not one.I have apologists to share with me 1 correct prophecy or prediction that the WT has uttered over the years that is accurate. No one has shared any with me. The reason is bc it doesn’t exist. Thousands of failed predictions and flip flopped teachings.
Reply
 
 
 Willow (formerly anonymous) says:

 November 17, 2014 at 4:55 am
 
@Holy Caolli, when two of the elders from my congregation came over to talk to me, I told them that and they came back with 1914. I told them that it was just a coincidence that WW1 broke out in 1914 because Russell had said that by 1914, Armageddon was going to be over etc. and I even told them that I have the early books to prove it and they refused to listen to me.
As long as WW1 broke out in 1914, they all believe that their predictions come true. Facts don’t phase them. They believe what they want to believe.
I am wanting them to talk to me again. I can’t wait. I want them to prove to me that they have a way of approach to God in prayer through Jesus Christ. I can prove to them in our literature that they can not approach God through prayer unless they are of the 144,000. I am chomping at the bits over that little piece of information.
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 November 17, 2014 at 6:32 am
 
Willow: GOOD LUCK! As you said yourself, facts do not phase them.
 Neither do quotes from their own current or extinct literature. They just “KNOW they have the Truth.”
There is no reasoning or proof that exists, that will wake up someone who has been convinced to follow their self-proclaimed “Faithful and Discreet Slave.”
I wish you well. Congratulations on your escape.
The Watchtower has succeeded in ripping my family apart, simply because I decided not to become a member. (I never joined, but am being punished now as an apostate by my parents and sister. My niece just got baptized at the age of 11.)
Reply
 
 
 Holy Conolli says:

 November 17, 2014 at 12:34 pm
 
Willow. The 1914 teaching is SOOOOOO fake that I don’t even think the WT really Believes it anymore. It has been proven to be a stretch of the imagination and even Russell’s words and teachings are taken out of Context to try to prove hey were correct. Besides that the WT are the only ones that I know of that teach that Jerusalem fell in 607 bce. Scholars agree on the year 588 bce so that would throw their entire teaching off course. Alos at the time Russell and the early WT taught that they came to the conclusion by counting the distance in the Pyramids to some focal point and concluded it was 2520 feet or something like that and applied it to the prophecy of Daniel. It is so Bizarre how they cam to that point? It is actually “NUMEROLOGY” which is a non-biblical teaching. Ask the Elders if they came to that conclusion by using a unscriptural teaching is it really from God? Also if the 1914 teaching was correct why hasn’t Armegeddon already arrived since for 60 plus years tthye emphatically Declared that , “This generation( 1914 ) will be know means pass away” before ALL these things occur. Remember this, Many Elders are caught up in the same mental struggle that other JW’s are but are just going through the motions and no doubt they are thinking the same thoughts about the WT and questioning the teachings. I know myself as a former long time Elder I was question many many things for years and after a while I just had a “Crisis of Conscience” and had to admit to myself that it just isn’t true and that it is a Cult.
Reply
 
 
 Willow (formerly anonymous) says:

 November 17, 2014 at 1:13 pm
 
Holy Conolli to add to your comment. I even told the elders to look in the back in the B1 index of the new grey Bible with the pictures and it says “ABOUT 1914 C.E. Jesus hurls the serpent, Satan, to the earth, confining him there for a short time” and that didn’t even phase them.
All these years, the Society has always insisted and still insists that in 1914, Satan for a FACT threw Satan out of heaven down to the earth and that is why WW1 broke out. Putting the word ABOUT 1914, couldn’t have been an accident, especially since Jehovah apparently blessed them in making the new Bible with all heat and such.
I also think that many elders must have unanswered questions in their minds too but it’s such a drastic step to walk away so they chose to not think about any questions.
That had to be so hard for you. I can’t even imagine how had it was for you.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Conolli says:

 November 17, 2014 at 1:53 pm
 
It was very difficult to walk away. The many years in the JW ‘s and all your friends are JW’s and as you know you cannot have a open discussion if you have different thoughts or disagree w anything. It is not allowed so that puts mental pressure on a thinking person. I was very torn in my decision. Especially bc my wife was a staunch fanatical believer and still is . I cannot have an open discussion with her at all. She likes to call all the changes they make as “progressive” Revelation? I kindly point out all the ridiculous points of view they have on everything from Education to medical and flip flop doctrinal changes and she just won’t discuss it. It took me a while to break away. I did it slowly as in my case it was the best thing for me to become a fader. I can’t believe now that I went along with that craziness for so long.
Reply
 
 
 Willow (formerly anonymous) says:

 November 17, 2014 at 4:09 pm
 
I can’t have a discussion with my husband either so I understand what you are going through. No friends from the hall to understand and not even your own family. I keep learning more and more from every book I read from former Witnesses and they make me wonder how in the world I could have been so blind all those years.
There is no way that I’d go back to the Kingdom hall now. It’s so clear to me now. Even all the young people who have been disfellowshipped are related to those who still go go the Kingdom hall so I am not even free to talk to them if I should run into them because I am afraid they will tell on me to their parents. It is amazing just how twisted this religion is and how I was fooled by it. The Watchtower is a master at manipulation. I pity all those who are wasting their lives in it.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Conolli says:

 November 17, 2014 at 4:26 pm
 
Since I have been gone for 20 years now if I see someone on the street who is DF’d I have no problem talking with them or having a discussion. The WT instills Fear in people to keep them in line. That fear left me a Long long time go. I have even had GB people spend the night at my house in recent years and I have no fear of them nor do I care what they think. They are just manipulators who I think believe their own lies. I think they have bought into their own weird interpretations of the F& D slave and believe they are spoke people for God. To think that they teach that you are not allowed to speak with your own Children. Father, Mother bc they may disagree with some teachings or decide being a JW is not for them is worse than a Dictatorship.
Reply
 
 
 Excelsior! says:

 November 22, 2014 at 6:50 am
 
Holy Connoli,
Did I read your comment correctly? You have had governing body members in your home? OMG! How on earth did that happen?
Peace be with you,
Excelsior!
Reply
 
 
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About JW Survey

A message from the founder of JWsurvey.org…
It is my pleasure to give you a warm welcome to JWsurvey.org. This website has been launched to give voice to millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world who would not normally have the opportunity to say what they really think about the Watch Tower Society, or the teachings and practices of the Governing Body.
The Governing Body has yet to express any interest in hearing the views of ordinary witnesses. Their mantra is: “We talk, you listen!”

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, or a former Witness, you will be aware that the opinions of rank and file publishers (and even elders) are rarely sought by the Society. The small number of men making up the Governing Body have declared themselves the “faithful and discreet slave” of Matthew 24:45, thus claiming sole control over the organization’s teachings and policies. These men are most certainly NOT interested in the opinions of the “silent majority” of Witnesses under their authority. If they are, they have a strange way of showing it!
This website seeks to redress that balance by means of an annual survey that is conducted anonymously throughout the world. The first survey was taken in 2011, and immediately attracted the opinions of 1,118 voters before closing at the end of the year. The results were posted to the Governing Body for their attention and review but, predictably, they never replied.
The following year, 2012, the survey received votes from 1,488 current and former Witnesses, most of whom expressed their concern at various Watchtower teachings. The remarkable events of that year (the Candace Conti case and the “new light” about the faithful slave) certainly seemed to get people talking. Subsequent surveys promise to attract even more attention as our website steadily grows in popularity.
A website for all
This site has been created and made available online so that anyone, whether they are a former or current Witness, or in some way associated with Witness friends or relatives, can give their honest opinions about the organization and its governance.
We adopt a strictly non-religious viewpoint, meaning that we refuse to promote any belief structure in particular. For this reason, we cannot be accused of trying to “draw off followers.” We are merely interested in garnering the views of ordinary Witnesses and reporting on the facts.
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses has not authorized or sponsored this survey, and it is run entirely without any influence or input from them. However, we genuinely feel that the brothers who serve on the Governing Body, having assumed such overwhelming responsibility, should take note of how ordinary Witnesses and the general public feel about their leadership, since millions of lives are affected by decisions they make at their private weekly meetings.
Who started this website?
I write under the name John Cedars. Until recently I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I left for conscientious reasons. You can read my story on this link.
I first had the idea to begin gathering the opinions of Jehovah’s Witnesses and their associates around the world because of a variety of issues that continue to be of real concern to me. I believe that ordinary Witnesses who devote their entire lives to loyally serving Jehovah, through what purports to be God’s spirit-directed organization, should have some say in the decisions that are made on their behalf.
It is my belief that not all is well within the organization, and many of the teachings and practices encouraged by the Governing Body are not formulated with the best interests of ordinary Witnesses at heart.
An unmerciful practice
For example, take the practice of shunning or “disfellowshipping.” The Apostle Paul’s words to the Corinthian congregation were as follows: “But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man… remove the wicked man from among yourselves.” (1 Cor 5:11,12)
Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians about the disfellowshipping arrangement never called for family members to be torn apart

Clearly the Apostle Paul was delivering this admonition for the purpose of keeping the congregation clean. But to what extent should these words be applied? By saying “not even eating with such a man,” Paul indicated that his words weren’t directed against family members (who would daily eat with one another), but against other brothers in the congregation with whom one might consider sharing a meal.
There is no reason to insist that the word “anyone” should be applied arbitrarily to “everyone,” irrespective of age or circumstances. Even Watchtower publications acknowledge that there should be some exceptions where family members are concerned. For example, a disfellowshipped husband is not to be shunned by his wife or children, and parents are not banned from speaking to their disfellowshipped children if they are not yet old enough to leave home. But why should it end there?
Many share my opinion that there is scope to extend even more mercy in applying this scripture than is currently encouraged by the teachings of the Governing Body. Jesus said the following to the unrighteous pharisees: “Go, then, and learn what this means: ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.” (Matthew 9:13, New World Translation)
Jesus identified mercy as playing a crucial role in the extent to which laws and principles should be enforced. Many do not think it is merciful that older teenagers, many of whom were baptized at an extremely young age, are forced out of their homes by their parents and then cruelly shunned, often for the rest of their lives, through a mistaken and abhorrent interpretation of the Apostle Paul’s advice.
The Society’s publications themselves warn that “no one should be forced to… choose between his beliefs and his family.” (July 2009 Awake!, p.9) However, they apply this reasoning to every religion but their own.
The scriptures clearly prescribe “shunning” purely as a measure for maintaining the spiritual cleanliness of the congregation, and not for the purpose of breaking up families. To go one step further and insist that shunning should also apply to families is both destructive and deeply unmerciful. It also violates the principle expressed by the Apostle Paul at 1 Timothy 5:8 where he said, “Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.”
These and other teachings of the Governing Body are increasingly becoming a cause of sincere distress for many Witnesses who wish that the organization could adopt a more merciful and loving stance. In particular, one can now be disfellowshipped as an “apostate” merely for disagreeing with the Governing Body over this or other issues.
Only human
It is my sincere desire that by means of this website, and its surveys, the Governing Body will humbly consider the pleas of both myself and like-minded ones around the world who long for the Watch Tower Society to be a more loving organization – one that is truly observant of the need for respect and tolerance toward other people’s beliefs.
The members of the Governing Body are only human, and no matter how much they may pray for wisdom and insight, they cannot possibly be fully aware of how their teachings and directives are impacting the lives of their fellow worshippers on a daily basis. That is what makes this survey website so important. It serves as a constant reminder for them to show greater kindness and mercy in undertaking the role that they have assumed as the faithful and discreet slave.
I would like to thank you in advance for your support for this site, and for getting involved in our important work.
Warmest regards,
 
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332 Responses to About JW Survey

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 Holy Conolli says:

 November 22, 2014 at 12:00 pm
 
Yes I have on more than 1 occasion. They have spent the night at my house and I had not been to meetings in years. My wife is a BIG time JW and she likes to Hob nob with the Big Shots and has some connections at Bethel so when they came out to give “SPECIAL” talks at the assemblies etc she goes to work on getting them to stay at the house. There were about 25 JW’s at the house to greet him and “LISTEN” to the wisdom he brought. I was polite and I am a good host so I was there as well. Of course I did not make an issue or anything I just observed the entire ordeal. I wasn’t there to cause a scene I just let them be. There wasn’t anything special what he said he pretty much would just quote the WT verbatim when they asked questions. The JW’s always talk negatively about Creature worship and say the reason they do not celebrate B-days is bc it draws attention to the person instead of God? Well, when a GB comes around there is nothing but attention drawn to that person bc they feel he is like Jesus Christ himself almost. It was an interesting experience. To be fair he was very pleasant and cordial and polite while he was here. Of course my wife wanted me to engage him in a conversation about the issues I have with the WT and their teachings and duff prophecies but I did not want to get into it with him bc I already know what he is going to say. He is going to say the same thing that the WT says about the light getting brighter and how they are the only ones that are doing the Preaching work and all the things we have heard for years. It wasn’t the time or the place for that conversation plus I am sure he did not want to go into it.He would probably label me an apostate if we had that discussion. Not that I care but I just did not want to do it. When I was on a visit to Bethel in the late 80’s I had dinner and a few beers with Fred Franz. He was kind of funny. Almost blind at the time. When he finished his beer he slammed it down and said, “Another Dead Soldier”.
Reply
 
 Jane Delane says:

 August 12, 2015 at 3:47 pm
 
I appreciate your comment but would like to say that, I have had only a few professors in my college experience that were great speakers. They all were very knowledgeable but some can get your attention like none others. Well, it is the same with the GB. They are very knowledgeable (not perfect). We all know they are not close to Jesus, but human like all others. However, we do feel it is a privilege to meet them, no different than meeting a great actor/actress, musician or writer. And yes, this would not be a time to be combative with questions. What I do is write to the society when I have questions. I have several times wanted answers regarding issues. I remember my dad would not let my brother play football because he felt this would hinder his worship. My brother and other young men were also not allowed to play sports. This led to all of them eventually as adults leave the organization. Yet, when I moved and went to another congregation, I noticed that three young men played sports and remained active in their worship. Today,many years later, I also have allowed my sons to play sports and they were raised in the organization. I always remind them that God comes first and they have to determine if they can do both. I have six children in which four are adults. Two are active and two are inactive. We as adults may learn the same but we may not apply the same way. This is why we can’t blame the brothers, congregation, or the organization for imperfections. The fact is who else is doing the things that JW’s are doing worldwide? Nobody. We are constantly reminded through instruction whether meetings, or conventions that we are imperfect and need to be corrected constantly through the bible, but the focus is doing what is required to save our life. Thats it! how complicated is it. I was inactive for 18 years and never felt better for coming back. Any questions I have or feelings about what I have learned, I pray. For example, the society now teaches that emphasis should be placed on a higher education. This is not to say that we tell our kids, don’t go to college. No, we encourage them that nothing is wrong with schooling and gaining more knowledge in order to assist with a job. We emphasize the need not to focus on higher education and lack in their worship. I am a holder of two degrees and my oldest daughters have degrees. One daughter was in college while she studied and got baptized. She now has a degree and the brothers did not look down on her. I attended meetings when I was finishing my degree and my son wants to be a professional baseball player. The one issue that I discuss is worship comes first and we should not sacrifice our worship for something else. I also point to actors, musicians, and athletes who are JW’s. Some have fallen away and some are doing both. Yet, some elders will discourage young ones for higher education altogether. However, they will certainly not be put out the congregation for choosing to go to college. In all religions, some take things to an extreme, and all religions are talked about in a negative way. I have friends from different religions who complain all the time, but they still go.
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 anonymous says:

 August 12, 2015 at 4:56 pm
 
Jane Delane, I got baptized in 1966 and I don’t remember anywhere in those 49 years where the Society has encouraged higher education. Right away when I was reading your post, I was wondering why you were commenting as you got to go to college. Most of the rest of us were shamed into not going to college but at the same time, seeing so many people coming into the “truth” AFTER HAVING A COLLEGE EDUCATION and because of that degree being able to have nice home and nice cars etc. but the rest of us who listened to the Society and didn’t go to college, having to scrape by with nothing to retire on. I don’t get where you have found in any of the publications where the Society has encouraged higher education. Can you tell us where you found that? Even the latest JWbroadcasting episodes are still discouraging going to college. Are you for real or are you pretending to be a Witness?
Reply
 
 steve Middleton says:

 August 15, 2015 at 11:11 am
 
I was born in 1965 and the society as I was brought up condemned higher education and careers outright, they likened any attempt at achievement or success as ‘polishing the brass on a sinking ship’.
Armageddon was to come no later than 1984, three score years and ten after Christ came back to the vicinity in the earth in 1914.
All non witnesses would die in a Revelation prophesied destruction where the blood would run as high as the ‘horses bridles’. Conveniently having got all of their predictions wrong they claim a clearer knowledge these days; of what!!
For Gods sake however intelligent you believe yourself to be you are mad to listen to the insanity of this organisation, it is a manipulative cult, I got out years ago.
Unfortunately elderly relatives still believe ‘the truth’ and I try to keep quiet for their sake, but the JWs obsessive, extreme behaviors need bringing under control with immediate effect, it ruins lives by the day.
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 Jeannie says:

 March 27, 2016 at 8:10 pm
 
You can go to community college and study for a job. Paralegal, dental assistant, nursing etc
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 holy Connoli says:

 August 13, 2015 at 11:48 am
 
to Jane Delane: You sound sincere Jane but what you are saying is JUST NOT TRUE. I was a active JW for over 20 years and an Elder for over 12 years and a MS for over 5 years. I gave talks at assemblies, conducted the school and had GB stay at my house several times. My wife has ben a pioneer for over 15 years and still is. The WT definitely opposes and talks very bad and is AGAINST college education ( unless they benefit from it ) Please google a you tube talk by Governing Body member Garrett Loesh that he gave a few years ago in Italy and he Blasts higher education. I was baptized in the 70’s and my entire JW years college education was more than just frowned on it was actually considered unchristian. We all know iot was taught that way so to say it is a conscience matter now in the JW world is not true. Sure you won’t be dfd for it but you will not be considered spiritually strong and you could even be labeled BAD ASSOCIATION! It is a RIDICULOUS position to take and it is also unchristian and it is what a CULT does to control its members. Look up recent WT articles about college education and see the Stupid archaic nonsense position they take. Also on Sports, As a former Elder the CO told me if My son played o the school sports team I would be removed as an elder bc I was setting a bad example? I regret it very much to this day that I caved into his stupid reasoning and the CULT pressure. and di dnot allow my son that great experience. I have apologized to him for that.That was coming direct from the WT Society . Read what they say in young people ask. They are adamantly against any JW’s playing sports n School. Of course a few professional athletes play that may be JW’s but the position and the Pressure to not play is very strong.Jane? You say who else is doing the things JW’s do Worldwide? Well, What are they doing? Standing on the corners or in high traffic areas with an applecart promoting their teachings? Also it is an ever changing teaching that has never had 1 THING or prophecy they say come true! NOT ONE JW PREDICTION has ever come true. ZERO ACCURACY but yet they claim to be sprit directed by Jehovah? What are the JW’s doing hat is so great. They certainly don’t feed the poor or help the poor outside of a few JW’s when a tragedy strikes or they may include a few “WORLDLY” people and give a few handouts to them for news publicity. They do not have a program to help NON JW’s. They do not take care of he sick. All they do is promote their own teachings and push magazines all the time claiming they are preaching the good news of the kingdom that supposedly came in 1914 and we all know that is nit true and they even almost now admit it. Other religions are much more humanly kind to people than JW’s are and they help anyone regardless of their faith. So what else do JW’s do? Well, they destroy families through shunning and DFing, thy cause mental torture on DFd people causing many to commit suicide, they cause death by teaching to refuse Blood transfusions, they stop people from making a decent living by discouraging college education, They control what you can do and how you can dress, what kind of hair and beards you can have, they offer NOTHING for the young JW’s except free labor at Bethel, No youth programs, no professional counseling and they PROMOTE child abuse by their position on NOT protecting sex abuse victims from pedophiles by their position on the ignorant 2 witness rule. They want to protect the ORG against lawsuits but do not care about the victim. Besides that they harm the environment by printing Millions and millions of books and magazines that just get thrown in the garbage. So I guess that is what the JW’s do.
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 isawthelight says:

 March 10, 2016 at 11:09 pm
 
And again, what has the watchtower and its followers ever done for mankind? What has it done but promote their cult activities. And I am getting sick and tired of them always saying that they are only human and make mistakes. Well that also applies to all other religions too. Why cant other religions also make mistakes? It seems the watchtower always applies these statements when they are caught doing something wrong..As far as helping people that’s just a flat out lie. They help no one but themselves. If Catholic charaties had not helped me with my heating bills the last 6 years then I would have froze to death.Gos bless the Catholic people. They are a blessing to mankind..They make the watchtower look sick.
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 anonymous says:

 November 22, 2014 at 3:19 pm
 
Hi Holy Canolli, your wife probably thinks if one of the Governing Body comes over, then that person will bring you back because they are just that much better than the others at convincing you or has she given up on you? I’d give my front teeth to be able to talk to them face to face. The first thing I’d ask is how can they prove 607, then 1914 and then 1919 and how many files do they have on child abusers in New York and why Did Garrett Losch say he didn’t have anything to do with the Watchtower. If you started on stuff like that when your wife had them over, that would be the last time and she’d never forgive you, would she? But what it would do is show them up for what they are too.
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 Holy Conolli says:

 November 23, 2014 at 6:12 am
 
Hi Anonymous
I have brought up those points SO MANY times to my wife but I t just goes in one ear and out of the other. 607 bce, 1914, 1919, organ transplants, Shunning, higher education, duff prophecies, flip flopping on Blood transfusion, the United Nations debacle, Child abuse, the 2 witness rule, Pyramology,House of Princes in San Diego, amd do may other things. She likes to use the Illustration that the T is progressive and compare it to Medical Science? She sais medical Science doesn’t believe or practice what they did 50, 100, 200 years ago do they? They used to NOT wash after delivering a baby but later found out disease and germs are passed on to others if they do not. It was bc they did not have the Knowledge at that time. When it was “REVEALED” to them they changed.Or with Penicillin…they did not have the knowledge until it was “revealed” or discovered to them. SO it is “progressive Revelation” to her thinking and they keep adjusting until they get it right like the sailor that is “TACKING: as he crosses the oceans waters to get to their ultimate destination. They may go off course for a while but ALWAYS get back on course.
That argument I say is not a comparison bc Medical Science never claimed to be a spokesperson for Almighty God and the WT even after having made their o called Adjustments have gone back and forth on the same doctrine many, many times. Also after all of these adjustments the WT cannot still show after 140 years as a religion ! THING OR PROPHECY that they predicted has come true. Medical science has proved it by the very fact of their success in stopping and eradicating some disease and healing people. I did not go in that direction with the GB when he was here. I di share the article with her about Garrett refusing o testify and she said well there are 2 sides to every story and this is probably Media Bias. In the near future I think the GB will be coming again.
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 anonymous says:

 November 23, 2014 at 6:23 am
 
Hi Holy Canolli. I feel your frustration. There is nothing I can say that my husband can absorb either. I have so much hatred for the Governing Body members right now, that I don’t know how I could hold it in if I was to meet them. I hope when they come next, that you can say something to them that will get your wife’s attention but more than likely, she’s looking at them like they are infallible like my husband does. I have to hand it to the Society (cult). They have crossed every T and dotted every i when it comes as to how to brainwash their idolator worshippers into following them, no matter how silly it is.
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 Holy Connoli says:

 October 7, 2015 at 11:03 pm
 
Anonymous: Wellit has been almost a year since wel ats communicated. Meanwhile My wife just came back from the annual meeting and hanging around certain GB memebrs and their wives and she thinks the meetings and “New Light” was “AWESOME” as she says and calls it progressive revelation!
I asked he if I was right in the things I told her would be announced and she said well, some of it we are nt ending the TS we are just “adjusting to a new platform”.? Wow. anything they tell them they will believe.
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 Holy Conolli says:

 December 3, 2014 at 5:39 am
 
Anonymous
I feel your pain but try not to hate. I think if we do that it hurts us more and gives them some satisfaction and they will always make the claim like ..SEE…How unhappy that person is now that they left the Organization? They say see, “there is no happiness outside the organization”. I am sure you have heard that over the years. Hating what they do and did is normal but I think we harm ourselves if we let personal hate eat at us. Be happy you awoke and are no longer under their control. Reach inside yourself and find your peace.
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 Wayne Bruce says:

 January 29, 2015 at 10:51 pm
 
Hi Cedars
This is a response not to yourself but to Paul Grundy (if you can please contact him, I failed). His article on beards in the JW movement possibly omitted an interesting comment I heard from a then elderly JW over 30 years ago about how the Russellites wore beards like CTR after his death, whereas those who followed Rutherford [JW forerunners] went clean-shaven.
 Maybe needs research/verification.
 Anyhow, All the best
 Wayne (ExJW)
 Australia
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 Sheila l says:

 March 12, 2015 at 2:44 pm
 
Bravo, spot on and more accurate then the others I’ve seen. This needs to be told with truth not made up backwards crap I have read so far. I have been kicked out 4 times now and this time was the charm. I didn’t even get a meeting at the Hall or letter just a surprise call saying you’re out. I didn’t even know I had been under investigation as this time wasn’t guilty. Now I am being called
 Apostate for talking and then r questioning jws after being born into it 54 yes to be exact Thank You
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 Gilbert says:

 April 24, 2015 at 5:47 pm
 
Keep up the work!
 I had a falling out with a loved one over the disfellowshiping issue.
 She misunderstood me as a JW but I respect why she did so.
 There is a difference between “Shaming” and “Shunning”. As one of JW I do not believe in Disfellowshiping. I DO believe in Shaming. BUT NOT ON A CONGREGATION LEVEL! I practiced shaming on a relative who was way off course. The result is now a happy marriage and a son. But is was a ONE on ONE dialoge and shaming. My father, a Catholic, did the same to me when I was 17. It changed my life. Shame is good when done appropriately.
 JW heirachy has done a dis-service to Jesus Christ in this regard. Imagine Jesus asking you to write a letter and review it in 6 months to see if you can be forgiven? My goodness
 I hope one day to make amends with her.
 People are more valuable than organizations. But not Watchtower. The “Organization” is more valuable than the people. John 3:16
Reply
 
 Jane Delane says:

 August 12, 2015 at 4:24 pm
 
I once had a problem with disfellowshipping but when I got older and became a parent, I then understood it. It is different today than many years ago in the organization. I remember when a scripture was read before someone was disfellowshipped and then we would pretty much know what they did wrong. That to me is shaming. However, I realize that this disfellowshipping has a good purpose. First of all, one only gets disfellowshipped if they are not repentant, or continue to believe a certain way that is against bible laws or principals. For example, You cannot admit to smoking, fornicating, being an alcoholic, and you are not sorry or do not want to change behavior. It would only be right to disfellowship this person. If I had an adult child living in my house and he got on drugs, in trouble with the law at times, cursed and disrespected me. I will no doubt put him out because this would be unhealthy and bad for the rest of my children to see. Doesn’t mean that I would stop loving or talking to him. It means that in order for him to come around he would have needed to take steps to be back. First, be sorry and then take actions to correct bad behavior. I would not want any of the other children to hang out with him either. A disfellowshipped person can still attend the meetings for spiritual food and he could only speak with the elders on certain matters. When our children do wrong, we discipline. What discipline we choose is our choice. Its too bad if the kids don’t like it. It is a form of correction. In the congregation, elders have to determine what discipline is needed. This is a difficult task because they are imperfect too and have to go by prayer to determine. Just as some jury’s, elders can get it wrong. But just as people unjustly put in prison and punished, they work on getting their name cleared or punishment corrected. We are taught forgiveness and even humans unjustly convicted have learned to forgive. However, for the ones who are just given a reproof in the congregation (Like me), I have learned from it. I willingly came before the elders to tell them of something I had did. This was difficult because it was embarrasing for me, but I was truly repentfull and acknowledged my error. No announcement was made but they prayed with me and gave instruction. I was truly grateful. The ones who never come back from being disfellowshipped are the ones who have allowed their pride stand in the way, or they decided not to change the wrong. I have sat next to a couple in the meeting who got married but had fornicated before getting married. They were able to speak with others but were not allowed to answer or go into field service for a period of time. The couple still went to meetings and hung in there until they got their full privileges back (no complaint)0. Nobody likes to be punished, whether jail, fines, or in Jehovah’s organization disfellowshipped or whatever. Parents punish out of love, the same with God.
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 apologist says:

 June 8, 2015 at 1:43 pm
 
you have already erased everything I have written
 you are a clown with a hidden agenda working for satan
Reply
 
 anonymous says:

 June 8, 2015 at 2:38 pm
 
Geez apologist, get a life!!
Reply
 
 
 Frank James says:

 June 16, 2015 at 1:21 am
 
‘Apologist’. Fortunately, Gilbert is right on the money. The idea of shunning is a mean, cruel way of ‘punishing’ a person for using the free will that is a gift from God anyway. By shunning ones own children, who are another gift from God, is certainly not honouring Jehovah, but in actuality, dishonouring Him. No where in the scriptures does it say to abandon your children, siblings or spouse because they have their own thoughts on religion. We are ALL different and that’s the way God made us.
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 isawthelight says:

 March 10, 2016 at 11:29 pm
 
I would not have any doubt that the watchtower and those 8 bent over old men might be getting food stamps and welfare if they could.They get charity from United Way..Yes they do. Anything free their hands are reaching. next time one knocks and I answer I will say “hows business today?”” did you pick up any new customers?” this morning?
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 Holy Connoli says:

 June 8, 2015 at 2:06 pm
 
@apologist. Typical JW answer. Anyone that disagrees w the WT is from Satan. Case closed. Ears Closed. Eyes Closed. Mind Closed. Heart Closed. Apologist, PLEASE show mw 1 prophecy the WT has predicted that has come true in their short 135 years of existence. I can show you 100’s of ones they uttered that did not come true. Just 1 Apologist.
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 Wanderer says:

 June 16, 2015 at 5:03 am
 
Here is some JW prophecy. The 1920 leaflet & talk millions now living will never die? Or the generation of 1914 being alive at Armageddon? Or constructing Beth Sarim? Or………No, I give up!
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 Holy Connoli says:

 June 16, 2015 at 11:44 am
 
@wanderer. Here are some more prophecies from the WT. The King of the North will prevail ( Russia ) they will gain control over the oil of the world ( Daniels prophecy book ) the year 1925 is more important in prophecy than 1925, Jehovah dwells on his own planet, Just a few more months before Armageddon ( 1942 )
 The last days began in early 1800’s when Napoleon was taking over Europe, Then it began in 1874,Mussolini plays a major part in Bible prophecy, The Princes like King David will be resurrected before Armageddon,and we can expect them at any minute! Judge Rutherford is so CONVINCED that King David will be resurrected he SIGNS OVER THE GRANT DEED to the home in Beth Sarim in San Diego California! ( A real Nut case ) The flip flop again on the what is a generation when it is evident that the prediction that this generation WILL NOT pass away is not coming true. The Flip flop again on the F&D Slave who it is and what they do? Remids me of David Koresh and the WACO TEXAS
 situation.
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 isawthelight says:

 March 10, 2016 at 11:31 pm
 
lol lol–they are indeed a joke. A cult is a cult is a cult- Oh well you get the picture.
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 Frank James says:

 June 16, 2015 at 1:28 am
 
Holy Connoli
 To be able to show 1 ‘prophesy’ that the JW organisation had shown to be true, one would need to be blind, deaf and have a very cold heart. Satan does not even come into the discussion
Reply
 
 
 Average Joe says:

 July 21, 2015 at 2:52 pm
 
I think an in-depth article about JWs & beards would be good for discussion.
 This is such an American JW man made rule and results in having privileges removed if you’re unfortunate enough to be in a congregation where the elders have decided you’re worldly if you have a beard!
 Interesting how very well respected individuals like surgeons, bank managers (hmmm maybe not so much now with their pay rises), doctors have beards but the WTS still infers they are bad. Note the absence of them in any of their publications when JWs are portrayed. I think the reason is because no American politician has a beard so the WTS being based there is influenced by such thinking. What’s bizarre is how they don’t have the spine to come out and directly say that they don’t like beards on JWs (although I’m not too keen on women with them!)
 I have had various discussions with self-righteous elders over the years and I quote Isaiah 5:20 ‘woe to those who say good is bad’. What’s more unnatural: shaving your beard off that God has given you or letting it grow? To judge someone’s spirituality by their facial hair is ridiculous. What makes the elders that are against beards even more like the Pharisees (apart from their laws of men over God’s principles) is the fact that they themselves allow (or even wear) moustaches. IT’S STILL FACIAL HAIR!
“Ah but in some cultures a man of God with a beard is not accepted” came the reply in one of their stock letters to me as a teenager so I wrote back politely asking them to tell me which cultures these were… still waiting for a response.
 Many town congregations in the North of the UK where I’m originally from accept beards, many reasonable elders actually sporting them, realising that it is not our place to enforce personal opinions on others as regards to modest dress & grooming. I just love the look on American JW faces when they come over to the UK and the first thing they say is “wow! You guys are allowed to have beards!”
Maybe TPT Morris thinks beards are designed by homosexuals too!
 OK rant over. Peace & I’m out of here…
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 holy Connoli says:

 July 22, 2015 at 2:11 am
 
Average Joe. I have had the same arguments you make about the position the WT has on Beards! Totally ridiculous and also totally un scriptural! They would try to make the argument that it could “Stumble” somebody? I would say really? How would it stumble somebody? Well, they might think you are a radical or a Hippy…yes they would say Hippy, lol. ( shows how out of time they are ) Then they would say that Ministers of Christendom wear beards on TV but we JW”S do not.We don’t want to imitate False religion! Then they would use comparisons to stumbling a brother or sister if they wore overly “suggestive” or low cut clothing to expose their breasts or other nonsense reasoning. SO I said you are comparing wearing a beard which Jehovah gave us to possible sexual immorality? It would turn into an argument every time but of course never could they use a scripture to support their stupid reasoning. I had a JW friend from Germany who would visit us every few years and he had a full beard and would go to the KH in California and everyone would be shocked. He said it was no Big deal In Germany although the official position in the WT and Magazines is NO BEARDS for Men he still did it.
When I was an Elder we would have Stupid meetings about a few brothers that were starting to grow beards and how we needed to have a special talk about it. One very Nice Brother who was a school teacher and had a education degree wore a beard and the Elders gave him a bad time even refused to work in Field Service with him. I would defend him in the meetings and say don’t we have better things to worry about in life and the cong then this guy wearing a beard?
Do you really think Jehovah the Grand Creator gives a Rats Arse about a JW wearing a beard! Leave him alone I said as he is a kind and loving person. They said if he insists on wearing a beard then we do not have to work with him in the Field service or we can take “privileges” away from him in the Congregation. At the same time their was this other publisher in our Cong that was over 300 1lbs and his belly would hang out over his pants ( a nice Fat Person ) and he was allowed to go door-door even though it was extremely embarrassing to anyone that would work with him in Field service. I mean this guy was SUPER OBESE and could barely walk upstairs.The point is he stumbled me and others was not a good example and drew attention to himself ( all the Dumb Arse arguments they use against beards and grooming ) yet nothing was ever said to him or done to him about his problem and their were many others that were EXTREMELY Over weight and looked abnormal but they preferred to pick on men with beards? They have nothing else positive to do except to think up BS issues that have no value. Personally , I think the reason for it is bc a few GB members are from the 30’s and 40’s and they are stuck in a stupid time warp and basically they are just Ignorant and unreasonable. They create rules and regualtions EXACTLY like the Pharisees and exalt themselves above God.
Reply
 
 
 Faithful Witness says:

 July 22, 2015 at 6:43 am
 
Thanks for the great observations, Joe!
 I find it interesting how they can use the origins of a tradition, phrase or holiday, as evidence that it is part of the world, and should be avoided… yet they require men to wear neckties. Neckties originated as part of a military uniform.
 They cling to rules & traditions they like, and are so judgmental of anyone who dares to question the authority given to them by (?? what is the current belief on this ?? I have fallen behind on TRUTH updates…)
I remember when we were studying with the JW’s, and they compared celebrating Christmas, to picking up a dirty lollipop out of the gutter… (“What Does The Bible REALLY Teach?” – read this book and find out!!)
Logic and reason have no significance. Avoid critical thinking! We have the TRUTH. “I just know we have the TRUTH.” (repeat…)
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 Faithful Witness says:

 July 22, 2015 at 12:29 pm
 
Joe, thank you for your comments. You make some very good points.
JW’s follow rules, that are made up by men, American men, who claim they speak for God himself. It seems that their organization prides itself on being absurd & different, so they can be recognized. I listened to them for years, before I finally just had to give up on having a logical conversation with any of the ones that came here to “teach” me about the Bible. They will never admit when they are wrong. Honestly, I’ve never seen a group of “loving” Christians, who are so completely self-absorbed, puffed up with pride and priest-like privilege. Anyone who doesn’t do things “our” way, is condemned to destruction.
(This is not to say that there aren’t many JW people who have been nothing but kind and loving to me, back when I was a potential recruit.)
I have never understood what they actually believe about Jesus, but most of their rules are based on assumptions & conclusions that do not actually come from the Bible. Your point about facial hair is a great example.
Another dress code rule that contradicts itself, is their insistence that men wear neckties. The necktie originated as part of the military uniform, and its history is well-documented. They are so hung up on avoiding anything that has pagan origins, but apparently this one is ignored, so they can be acceptable to the world? Celebrating Christmas is compared to eating a lollipop you found in the gutter, in their Bible Teach book, but they have no problem with ignoring the commands of Christ, to feed the poor, do your good deeds in secret (field service reports given to men: Matthew 6:1-6)
 The long list of their weird inconsistencies, just keeps growing, as the leaders become more desperate for power. The internet will end up destroying the Watchtower, but they will use it as evidence of Satan’s attack on the one true religion.
What a sad and confusing existence it must be for the innocent people who have dedicated their lives to this organization, just waiting and hoping the world will end…soon! (work work work! time is short!)
Reply
 
 
 Frankie Augusta says:

 August 15, 2015 at 10:11 am
 
I believe that shunning is non bi lical and that the scripture by the apostel paul was taking out of context.
Reply
 
 holy Connoli says:

 August 15, 2015 at 10:51 am
 
Frankie: So what do you think it means and how is it taken out of context?
 Other religions use the same scripture to shun. Of Course the JW’s use it to STOP any free thinking or any rational discussion about the scriptures and they use it to silence any different opinion.
Reply
 
 
 
 peter rogers says:

 August 19, 2015 at 1:23 pm
 
jehovahs witnesses are not a charity. they dont do anything practical for anyone.
all they do is take donations from there members, and give then nothing back in return.
children at them meetings find it verry stressfull due to there being nothing there for children, they have to sit quetly throughout there meetings and its even worse for them during all the big assemblies of theres were children have to sit quetly from around 8 am till 5pm.
that is not good for children.
some single moms sitting at the kingdom hall back room with there children have mental health issues going on in there heads, they get really agitated by some of the comments they are hearing from the elders on stage, and are really struggling to keep the children quet at the same time.
( nobody ) cares about how what they are hearing may be causing them psychological problems, and even some of them children are developing psychological problems, because they are picking up that there mom is not happy there.
its difficult for them moms to leave the jws since everything out in the world they ever had has been taken from them, all they know is the jws organisation.
you cannot aproach some of these moms and others members who have simular type of psychological problems, because the watchtower society is constantly warning them about so called outside apostates, hence they are in catch 22 situation, going round in circles developing mental health issues.
the simple answer to dealing with that situation is for these single moms and others etc to keep in mind every single person, including every religious organisation true or faulse, if such a thing really dose exist will all be answerable to jesus, jehovah, the vary allmighty himself.
no matter what any religous organisation may say, they ( cannot ) give you life, its not in there hands to do so in the first place, the only people who have the authority to give life is the vary allmighty himself and jesus the mediator.
jws vary own lifes will be thrown at the mercy of jesus himself.
any religion that stops bible study house groups world wide has to ve view’d with suspicioun, thats how much them governing body members in america have on its millions of members, and nobody questions it.
the word theocracy itself came from josephus the historian, which the jws applied to themselfs.
personally speaking, i really feal the governing body of jehovahs witnesses are a bunch of creeps, especially by the way they try to defend themselfs via broadcast about them child abuse cases.
peter. online name.
Reply
 
 
 Lorraine says:

 September 12, 2015 at 2:37 pm
 
Hi i have only recently found your website. I was one of jehovahs witnesses for over 35yrs but the past five years have not been active i would be here alnight if I was to tell my whole story needless to say I’ve been a full time pioneer elders wife been to pioneer school been involved with bethal projects etc etc etc
 I have been so pleased to find your website as everything I have read has only validated the feelings i had been struggling with for so long. I was feeling very alone but refused to be controlled by a In perfect man made organizion . So good to say how i feel. L
Reply
 
 Markw1509 says:

 September 30, 2015 at 5:13 am
 
Good to hear from you, Lorraine. You will find a lot of friends on Cedar’s site, people who have released themselves from the WT shackles and have survived, thrived, grown and developed outside of a controlling cult. Keep visiting and contribute if you feel the need to say what you feel. Welcome to the great crowd (of free-from-the WT-happy people!)! Lol!
Reply
 
 
 
 Ray says:

 September 12, 2015 at 5:22 pm
 
Extraordinary you were in for so many years and now are out of it. I feel I would like to chat. Maybe that is my isolation speaking? I was out sooner but the after effects are no less strange. If stranger were possible it would qualify. Anyhow I hope you feel you have some people of reassurance to relate with? That is the hard aspect. I hope things work out for you?
Reply
 
 
 Ray says:

 September 13, 2015 at 3:40 am
 
Just a mild point that may not even enter your situation, since it is often so well integrated into the social strata: in my case it has become overtly obvious beyond all reasonable doubt; that JW high level are Freemasons, or have their own networks which are allied to it, and as such the network one becomes aware of over time that imposes similar sanction and subversion is everywhere. I tried to locate people who I feel are not and I cannot. A shock really!!! In fact I hardly trust even this site to not have their spies posing as those who’ve left! Just worth noting; in my experience!
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 September 13, 2015 at 9:15 am
 
Ray
How and why do you say th e JW high lever ( GB ) is connected to the Freemasons? From history I know Russell had some connection although he personally denied it but I have read JW WT articles where they say Freemasons are pagan and devil worshipers etc. So what evidence do you have that they are connected with the Freemasons?
Reply
 
 
 Ray says:

 September 19, 2015 at 12:53 pm
 
The Jehovah’s Witnesses say: 1) The Royal Family are what? 2) Parliament is what? 3) Every religion except their belief is run by whom? 4) Financial markets are run by whom? 5) Military are under the power of whom?
Correction: Their elite group of males state your 5 replies to the above; whence all baptised followers, whether coaxed into thinking they got to that point by REASON, will be obliged for life to agree or thereafter be considered as in league with one or more of your answers and duly treated with perpetual suspicion.
Quite surprising considering the END ought have happened before “The generation of 1914” have passed away; update 1975; update blank; blank – I once had quite the extensive collection of bound mind-bending volumes going back to the 1930s but gave it to charity after being surprised my ex, who was still in, declined any interest on our separating, without so much as a word; which was years already of zero dialogue – less of a surprise!
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 September 19, 2015 at 7:54 pm
 
Ray: no disrespect intended but you are not answering my questions about the JW’s and the Freemasons as you claim.The JW’s beleive every organization except theirs is from Satan. There is God’s organization and everything outside of the Watchtower Society ( the World ) and all are from Satan not just freemasons.
Your answer is not clear and doesn’t stick to the subject. Personally I think you are way off the mark but thanks for trying to answer.
Reply
 
 
 Ray says:

 September 23, 2015 at 2:02 am
 
Mmmm? It’s potentially either/or/both ! Insider trading; double agency both ways; shared misinformation pummelling an undisclosed isolated target & due the disconnect surrounding that individual/family, utilising infrastructure to offer “degrees” and rewards for tasks that are essentially abusive whilst posing as moral agency; ongoing and part of clandestine “congregation building” for further utility in wider contexts and applications. Various. Or even incognito stalking replicating JW strategy around a target in a social context? Who would arrange such a fiasco? Network their family & fund repeat “love bombing” as a technique with an unknown agenda? “Secular preaching” splitting techniques as wider advantage to subversion and “indoctrination”. Please advise? Well concealed malevolence deliberating removals of all respectful trust or dialogue. A capitalist/fascist agenda as its evidence based motive with how the individual or target group realises they are being treated; any which way. Obviously zero lucidity (ostracisation); as if divine and morally superior – but posing “religious hack strategy” for hidden agendas. Telephone engineers will be just one “converted shadow JW” – ministerial servant to the elders commands and feedback to their governing body. Other “congregations” make a chain that stretches. Their “scripture” is interesting but it’s beyond the scope of this reply. Feel free to inform and educate me; life is so lonely its difficult to access reliable information.
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 Holy Connoli says:

 September 23, 2015 at 2:58 am
 
Ray: Now I know you are just playing around and that is fine, having fun with words and phrases and sounding “far out”. Ok, but I don’t have time for this at the moment but I must say your words can be entertaining and they were. You should be a song writer for Bob Dylan.
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 Ray says:

 September 26, 2015 at 4:04 pm
 
Maybe, like you, I ought try a pseudonym? It did cross my mind you were one of the aforementioned? Who would know?
I’m here too long already. Hardly worth my brief call – as they say. Lucidity is rare in any context!
Adios.
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 Holy Connoli says:

 September 26, 2015 at 6:15 pm
 
Ray: You never know? I might be part of the “Great Conspiracy” of the Free Masons like the WT is. As the WT slowly and insidiously tries to take over the world with it’s subliminal messages.Free Masons are great brick layers.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 October 7, 2015 at 9:41 am
 
@RAY. I thought RAY was a pseudonym?
 I mean it is such an original name. You might as well publish your last name, telephone number, email address also and address of your house
 so you can have the Elders and C.O.pay you a direct “HIT” I mean visit.
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 Rudy says:

 October 7, 2015 at 9:32 am
 
DEAR John
 Could you help me today? I need some advice. I recently disassociated. My wife is waking up and I need to help her before she tells the c.o. what she thinks and is dfd. Her whole family are in the cult so she has much to lose….. I need to protect her. Please call or email me if you cant afford long distance. Thanks in advance,
Reply
 
 
 Odus says:

 October 23, 2015 at 8:42 am
 
Will a ministerial servant be disfellowshipped if he allowed his kids to play football ?
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 October 23, 2015 at 11:57 am
 
No, he won’t be DF’s but he may be removed as a MS for not setting a good example according to the JW’s. I was an Elder and my son signed up to play
 baseball and they told me if he did I would be removed as a servant!
Stupid religion.
Reply
 
 
 
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Reply
 
 
 Defender says:

 March 1, 2016 at 8:28 am
 
To all opponents of JW’s:
If the JW’s are not God’s true people, then why are YOU not preaching “the real Bible-based teachings” about God’s kingdom and Jesus if you know it better? Instead of wasting all your energy, and only criticize the JW’s, YOU should give a good example how to live as true loving and peaceful Christians. YOU should go and preach the good news of God’s kingdom in all the inhabited earth (if YOU really know it better then the JW’s and also have the strength and love to do that?) since that is the command that Jesus gave! But YOU prefer to gossip about JW’s, have YOU ever thought about that?
God’s people in the past (the Jews) made a lot of mistakes. JW’s and their governing body also are not perfect and they make mistakes, but I believe they sincerely do their best to serve Jehovah God, they improve their understanding of Scripture in time, where necessary, and that is a good thing… 😉
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 March 1, 2016 at 8:55 am
 
Dear Defender, if you come to this site and read it more than the one time that it seems that you have been here and commenting, you will see that none of us every gossip about JW’s. We have been Witnesses and are telling about what happened to us and our families. We aren’t gossiping but telling true experiences.
I was a Witness for almost fifty years of my sixty nine years of my life and all during that time I was sincere and believed that I was preaching what I believed to be the truth and I believe that most JW’s also are sincere and preaching what the believe to be the truth as well.
People making mistakes is not the problem with the JW religion. It’s the deliberate preaching of lies if what is the problem and the cover up of child abusers.
If you can show us that the JW religion is directed by God’s holy spirit, I would believe that it’s the “truth” and I would go back. Do you have any proof that Jehovah and Jesus chose the JW religion in 1919 like the Society likes to claim? Do you know what the religion was teaching and preaching in those days that would have made it different and the one Jesus would have chosen as his one and only true religion?
It doesn’t do any good to be preaching any religious doctrine if you can’t prove it to be from God. Just turning out literature and going to meetings, doesn’t make it the “truth”. It can’t be lying to it’s followers. Anybody can take the Bible and make it into a religion but when that religion takes facts of history (Jerusalem being destroyed in 586/587 instead of 607 B.C.E.) and deliberately lies about it to twist and turn it into 1914 can’t be from God.
Why would I want to start my own religion? I don’t need to start my own religion and people don’t need to belong to a religion to be pleasing to God. All doomsday religions use the Bible to scare people into belonging to it. The Watchtower religion does the same as all the other ones that use hell fire. Watchtower just uses the threat of Armageddon instead.
People have been fooled into believing that they aren’t smart enough to understand the Bible and need the “clergy” to explain it to them. Why would God make a Bible that people can’t understand if he was going to kill them off for not following what it says if they can’t even understand it? That makes no sense.
You and all the rest of “Christian” religions have been fooled into thinking you need the clergy to explain the Bible to you but you are just a pawn or a tool for them to exploit.
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 Defender says:

 March 1, 2016 at 5:11 pm
 
Hello Caroline,
(My English is not so good, so it takes me a while to write this.)
People can study the Bible teachings and are convinced that it is the truth or not.
I am not born as JW and I can tell you that I have personal proof in my life (many times) that Gods holy spirit is active in the WT organisation, it is my personal experience and Jehovah gave me proof (because I had my doubts whether this is his organization), and if Gods spirit is active there, then that is the proof! I have seen Gods holy spirit in action (but not with spectacular wonders and signs), another might not believe what I have experienced, but for me there is no doubt of Gods guidance. One must use the spiritual eye to see Gods guidance! I believe God must have led you also in holy spirit in those 50 years, and obviously you have not seen it… 😉
But even without my experiences, I would think that there is only one organisation in this world that is zealously doing what Jesus said in Acts 1:8: “But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samaria, and to the most distant part of the earth.” This verse clearly states that the holy spirit would give power (love, joy, desire…) to preach the good news, it would not keep doing wonders and give proof to the people with spectacular signs (that is what Satan nowadays does disguised as an angel of light within other “Christian” groups)! I don’t believe anyone can be an active witness joyfully in all their life without Gods spirit, and that also is a proof of Gods holy spirit in action, because there are many examples of witnesses in the WT who have joyfully persevered throughout their lives till death (Galatians 5: 22-23 “…the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control…”).
About the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E., there are also scholars (and other Bible researchers) who absolutely agree with the WT that it is 607 and not 587, then the 2520 years from 607 until 1914 is correct. Secular scholars often present dates as facts when it really is not true, they have no interest in being overly accurate when it comes to the Biblical chronology! I have carefully studied the reliable Biblical chronology and am convinced that the difference of 20 years is well explained by the WT.
You wrote: “You and all the rest of “Christian” religions have been fooled into thinking you need the clergy to explain the Bible to you but you are just a pawn or a tool for them to exploit.”
I think you are right that other religions (also so-called “Christian”) have been fooled! But there must be the one true religion/organisation that is in Gods control, and as I wrote earlier, experience under the guidance of Gods spirit convinced me that it is the WT. There are many people who need a lot of explanation to understand the Bible, and there are people who understand it easier and also discover new things themselves. In the past, Jehovah always used his servants to explain his words to the people, and that is how Jehovah does it in these days too. There must be organization, otherwise it becomes a chaos! The WT uses the Biblical example from the first century to lead Gods organization at this time. In the first century the governing body had to make decisions themselves also in organizational issues etc. for that time, but as in the past, the organization consists of imperfect people and mistakes are made, that does not mean that the organization is no longer Gods, when things go wrong Jehovah and Jesus will intervene to revise misunderstandings in time!
Another proof that the WT/JW’s enjoys Gods blessing and guidance of His holy spirit: Especially in the large meetings, the love and joy among the witnesses is very clearly, just look in their eyes, mostly they will shine (if the person is sincere and pure)! Where does this blessing of love and joy come from, while there is a great lack of love in the world? Jesus said that this love would be the sign that he is with them! If the holy spirit works in the witnesses hearts than it will logically also work within the governing body because they are organizing the meetings. People must look with their spiritual eye and then they will see Gods guidance and spirit in action, but only if they are sincere and pure…
Because my English writing is not so good I can not go too much in detail and this will be my last comment and testimony here. Currently I am also not active in the WT but that is because of my own (health)problems and mistakes, but after all I have seen and experienced in person I can not doubt that the WT is Jehovah’s organization where his holy spirit operates! Bible knowledge in the WT is becoming more accurate over time by study, but only a sincere and pure heart can understands and accept the true Bible teachings. In Matthew 11:25 Jesus said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children.”
Finally, I wish you, me, and all who read this much happiness and renewed peace with Jehovah and his sincere true people, because not everyone in the organization is a sincere witness and those are usually the ones who were born in the truth and don’t understand it (yet) with their heart…
Sincerely Defender :-)
Reply
 
 Caroline says:

 March 1, 2016 at 6:50 pm
 
Hello Defender again.
Your English is excellent. I hope you keep commenting here. You have excellent points that most Jehovah’s Witnesses would come up with to defend the JW faith and it gives us opportunities to refute them, one by one, so thank you very much for coming here and trying to defend your faith even though you are going against the advice from the Society to keep you off of sites like this like Roland said.
Like you, I was also not brought up in the JW religion, so we have something in common. I also believed with all my heart that Jehovah was directing the Organization until I realized that the Society was lying about 607 B.C.E. and I began to study the history of the Organization to see whether or not it really was the “truth” or not the “truth” and I was shocked to see the real history of the Organization and how the Society deliberately covers it up.
 You need to not be afraid to find out the real history of the Organization around 1919 and beyond to see if God actually chose it as his spokesman at that time.
Last summer Geoffrey Jackson was asked that question at the Australian Royal Commission’s investigation into the rampant cover up of child abuse in the Organization over the last 65 years and Geoffrey Jackson said it would be presumptuous to say that Jehovah’s Witnesses are the only ones doing God’s will. You should take the time to see Geoffrey Jackson’s testimony and how he lied about not knowing about disfellowshipping too on Youtube.
We all know that we are not allowed to examine our own religion to see if it stands up to the Bible or not under the threat of disfellowshipping. If we understand a certain scripture and the Society is wrong about it, we are to keep quiet or we will be disfellowshipped for it. Does that sound right to you or scary?
Many years ago when I first became a Witness, a person could not get a scriptural divorce if their mate had sex with another person of the same sex or even an animal. Do you know what the reason for that thinking and teaching was? It was because having sex with the same sex or an animal could not produce a child.
I remember arguing with my husband at the time and he told me that I had to keep my thoughts to myself or else I’d be disfellowshipped for causing divisions and to wait on Jehovah. The Society eventually changed that teaching but at the time, I was very new in the “truth” and even then, I understood a lot more about what would be right and what would be wrong so those men in New York have no special insight at all.
They are just ordinary men with ordinary and sometimes ignorant understanding and yet over eight million people have to go along with every understanding those men have, no matter whether they are right or wrong and we are not allowed to even question it because they claim they get special insight from Jehovah but yet say they aren’t inspired. There is no reason we have to go along with everything they say because unless they can prove that they have been appointed by God, then they are being presumptuous just as Geoffrey Jackson admitted.
Just so you know, the Watchtower in the November 1, 2011 page 23 said this in a footnote on the topic of when was Jerusalem destroyed in 607 or 586/587 B.C.E.
“*Note: None of the secular experts quoted in this article hold that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E.”
In your comment you said: “there are also scholars (and other Bible researchers) who absolutely agree with the WT that it is 607 and not 587, then the 2520 years from 607 until 1914 is correct.”
Can you name even one of those scholars or Bible researchers? Then when it comes to coming up with the year 1914, what does that have to do with anything? The Watchtower taught that 1914 was going to be the end of Armageddon, not the time when Jesus would begin his invisible rule. The Society taught that Jesus began his invisible rule in 1874 until the year 1943. That fact is printed in the Proclaimers book on page 133.
The Society deliberately teaches untruths. No self-respecting God needs an organization that stoops to lies to teach people the Bible.
Reply
 
 Defender says:

 March 1, 2016 at 10:20 pm
 
I don’t know about individual witnesses and their mistakes. But I trust this, when members of the governing body make serious mistakes Jehovah and Jesus will intervene in time, and most of the problems you mentioned were clarified, all other problems will be fixed by Jesus on time! Nobody is without mistakes, we all (me, you, and Geoffrey Jackson also) are imperfect! The first 12 apostles had their flaws too…
Bible knowledge increases with time, which is the result of thorough study. In zeal and enthusiasm the WT have had wrong expectations of the time of the end and maid mistakes in the past. But the first century Christians had wrong expectations also and that did not mean they were not guided by Gods spirit, Acts 1:6-8 says: “So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction. 8 But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samaria, and to the most distant part of the earth.””. JW’s certainly have the power to witness zealously and joyfully with love about Gods kingdom! Would it not be possible that that is the proof that Gods spirit is with them?!
Dates are not supposed to be important to continue to serve the true God, that’s just study and refine our knowledge of the Biblical chronology, the intention must be to worship Jehovah forever with fellow believers and witness about Jesus and Gods Kingdom! Even if the end of this system of things would come after 10000 years from now…
But as I wrote, I have personally experienced Gods spirit working in the WT organisation and my personal life, and that’s the proof for me that it is Jehovah’s organisation and it stays His till the end (and beginning of the new world). Gods spirit is the proof that He is with you (and WT as organisation) or not.
For the year 1914 and the beginning of the 2520 years: Many scholars also agree on the date 537 B.C.E when the Jews returned after 70 years in exile, so 70 years before 537 B.C.E brings us in 607 B.C.E and de beginning of the exile, then the 2520 years ends in 1914 (the war in heaven and first world-war on earth?). The 2520 years began when the last Jewish king Zedekiah was removed from his throne and the future true King Jesus would get this throne in Gods Kingdom in heaven. But you must know all this if you were a JW for 50 years. Those scholars and Bible researchers who agree with JW’s 607 B.C.E you can find on google if you search, I can not find it back now but they are there, I have seen them! 😉
There is many other proof, which I myself discovered, that the dates are correct, and de Biblical chronology is right! People should examine themselves, but one must also trust and believe that the Bible is true, reliable, and inspired by God, and human sources have flaws…
One can investigate this all in private at home on http://www.jw.org/en and http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/h/r1/lp-e
This is my last comment here, I wish you all the best.
Sincerely :-)

 
 
 Caroline says:

 March 2, 2016 at 3:56 am
 
Dear Defender. I hope you keep coming back here and commenting. Your comments are clear and understandable and you don’t need to apologize for your English and it gives us the opportunity to respond to your reasons for wanting to defend the JW religion, of which I discovered to find out was a deceitful and dangerous cult.
When it comes to the blood doctrine, you are very wrong about saying that the Bible is clear about blood. The Bible only says to refrain from blood but when it came to the Israelites under Moses, the law from Jehovah was that if they came across a dead animal and ate it, that they were unclean until evening. Please read this article below and you will see how the Society skirts the problem of the problem with that scripture from the Mosaic Law from Deut. 14:21.
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVicHvtZW9r4A_o8nnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByOHZyb21tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg–/RV=2/RE=1456942727/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fajwrb.org%2fbible%2fquestions-from-readers/RK=0/RS=LwziI8cfUlKOTA88.ctVjQFoe3A-
Were you implying that Geoffrey Jackson made a serious mistake when he said that it was presumptuous to say that only the JW religion was God’s spokesman on earth today when you said “You are wrong when you said “when members of the governing body make serious mistakes”?
You must know, if you have been associated with the Witnesses for any length of time that the Governing Body is only the Governing Body when they meet on Wednesdays as a group. Otherwise, they are individual members as you said. If they are speaking as a group in the literature, they are supposedly getting their information straight from Jehovah and Jesus through Holy Spirit and so it wouldn’t make any sense to say “Jehovah and Jesus will intervene in time, and most of the problems you mentioned were clarified, all other problems will be fixed by Jesus on time!”
If Jehovah and Jesus are directing the Organization, why would Jesus and Jehovah have to intervene to fix any of the problems? Do you see any problem with this kind of thinking? Think about it. Why would Jehovah and Jesus have to fix the problems with understanding if Jesus and Jehovah are directing the Organization with Holy Spirit?
The Society is flying by the seat of their pants when it comes to understanding the Bible.
The Society is a man made religion that makes good use of Bible passages to promote it’s real estate empire and it uses gullible and innocent people who long for a peaceful new world where they will see their dead relatives again and where they won’t have to suffer and die.
It is the same promise that Satan offered to Eve if she ate of the fruit. It is no different than any other religion that uses the hope of an eternal afterlife in heaven to attract followers. There is no scripture in the Bible that says that God is going to restore the earth to a paradise where nobody is going to die. If you can find that scripture, I’d be curious where it is.
Every scripture that talks about people never dying again, is found in Revelation where those people are in heaven, including the great crowd who come through Armageddon. They aren’t called the great crowd until they come through Armageddon and they are in heaven.
The Society comes up with all kinds of explanations to make Witnesses think the earth is going to be turned into a paradise next week but it’s a ploy to get us interested and keep us in and every day that goes by, is one more day supporting an Organization that is out to make money to buy up more real estate and you are being exploited for your money and your free labor.

 
 
 Defender says:

 March 2, 2016 at 3:25 pm
 
Hello Caroline,
You wrote: “I discovered to find out was a deceitful and dangerous cult.”
For 50 years you were in de WT, but you did not think that way in that time I think, and other JW’s never experienced it that way till death, they had Jehovah blessing and they were happy most of the time. :-)
You wrote: “The Bible only says to refrain from blood but when it came to the Israelites under Moses, the law from Jehovah was that if they came across a dead animal and ate it, that they were unclean until evening.”
It’s much better to do your best not to get unclean and stay pure in Gods eyes. Acts 15:27-29 says: “For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from BLOOD, from what is STRANGLED, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”
You wrote: “If they are speaking as a group in the literature, they are supposedly getting their information straight from Jehovah and Jesus through Holy Spirit…”
There is a difference between inspiration of the Bible (which was infallibly guided by God), but the GB group seeks the help of Gods holy spirit to be guided by the inspired word of God as well as possible and necessary at that time. But as imperfect people they can interpret something wrong (the facts show however that the interpretation is only getting clearer and more refined in time). That’s what the apostles in the first century also did on issues such as circumcision, they looked in the Scriptures. Gods people in the past (Noah, Abraham Moses ec.) were also led by God but did not know everything right away. At His appointed time, God apparently helps to understand more and more about his plan and understanding it. The Jews had the Bible for centuries, and studying it with zeal, but did not understand everything about the Messiah. When Jesus came He explained what was needed at that time, still most people did not understand. Daniel wrote his Bible-book, but he also did not understand what it was exactly about etc.. The Bible shows that God has acted that way in the past. I can understand very well that this is not easy to understand, but those are the facts and in our time God also works that way. So, if GB/WT is guided by Gods spirit that not means God immediately reveals them everything, only what is needed at this time. Jesus clearly said that he would appoint a slave to organize the gospel and his disciples! It is true that the WT/GB have been overconfident in the past to explain things that they have not understood well enough, but that does not mean that God had rejected him therefore, individual members of the GB were however excluded in the past (if I remember correctly). I have already written that I have experienced the action of the holy spirit in the WT-society and my personal life, and that to me is clear proof that it is Jehovah’s organization and not the GB’s, they also have to be accountable to Jehovah for their acts if they do wrong!
You wrote: “There is no scripture in the Bible that says that God is going to restore the earth to a paradise where nobody is going to die.”
It’s very strange that you do not know the answers on that anymore after 50 years in the WT. Because that’s what the Bible is about, loss of eternal life in the Garden of Eden and the restoration of eternal life in the future earthly paradise through the sacrifice of Jesus and the heavenly government of God, the 144000 humans who go to heaven have the task to rule with Jesus to carry out Gods original purpose for the earth, as it was intended for Adam and Eve, all other people will live forever on earth and will make it a paradise! In Luke 23:42-43 Jesus said: “And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.” John 3:13-16 says: “Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man. 14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so the Son of man must be lifted up, 15 so that everyone believing in him may have everlasting life. 16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.” (on paradise earth just like Adam and Eve)
Dear Caroline, this is my last comment. The Biblical interpretation of the WT in this matters are true, if you are willing to examine it again to refresh your knowledge of biblical teachings, you can find it all on http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/h/r1/lp-e and a good book to help is http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-study/
I wish you, me, and everyone here (renewed) peace with Jehovah, and much happiness! Know that Jehovah is the only true God and Jesus is His son, and the WT are used by them as their organisation in this time, that’s all I can say about it, on http://www.jw.org/en one can find everything needed to come to a better understanding of the Bible! But we can only understand it with the help of Gods spirit and a sincere and pure heart. Jesus said in John 4:23-24 “Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.””
Sincerely :-)

 
 
 Defender says:

 March 2, 2016 at 8:10 pm
 
Hello Caroline,
You wrote: (“I discovered to find out was a deceitful and dangerous cult.”)
For 50 years you were in de WT, but you did not think that way in that time I think, and other JW’s never experienced it that way till death, they had Jehovah blessing and they were happy most of the time. :-)
(“The Bible only says to refrain from blood but when it came to the Israelites under Moses, the law from Jehovah was that if they came across a dead animal and ate it, that they were unclean until evening.”)
It’s much better to do your best not to get unclean and stay pure in Gods eyes. Acts 15:27-29 says: “For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from BLOOD, from what is STRANGLED, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”
(“If they are speaking as a group in the literature, they are supposedly getting their information straight from Jehovah and Jesus through Holy Spirit…”)
There is a difference between inspiration of the Bible – which was infallibly guided by God, but the GB group seeks the help of Gods holy spirit to be guided by the inspired word of God as well as possible and necessary at that time. But as imperfect people they can interpret something wrong – the facts show however that the interpretation is only getting clearer and more refined in time. That’s what the apostles in the first century also did on issues such as circumcision, they looked in the Scriptures. Gods people in the past – Noah, Abraham Moses ec. – were also led by God but did not know everything right away. At His appointed time, God apparently helps to understand more and more about his plan and understanding it. The Jews had the Bible for centuries, and studying it with zeal, but did not understand everything about the Messiah. When Jesus came He explained what was needed at that time, still most people did not understand. Daniel wrote his Bible-book, but he also did not understand what it was exactly about etc.. The Bible shows that God has acted that way in the past. I can understand very well that this is not easy to understand, but those are the facts and in our time God also works that way. So, if GB/WT is guided by Gods spirit that not means God immediately reveals them everything, only what is needed at this time. Jesus clearly said that he would appoint a slave to organize the gospel and his disciples! It is true that the WT/GB have been overconfident in the past to explain things that they have not understood well enough, but that does not mean that God had rejected them therefore, individual members of the GB were however excluded in the past – if I remember correctly. I have already written that I have experienced the action of the holy spirit in the WT-society and my personal life, and that to me is clear proof that it is Jehovah’s organization and not the GB’s, they also have to be accountable to Jehovah for their acts if they do wrong!
(“There is no scripture in the Bible that says that God is going to restore the earth to a paradise where nobody is going to die.”)
It’s very strange that you do not know the answers on that anymore after 50 years in the WT. Because that’s what the Bible is about, loss of eternal life in the Garden of Eden and the restoration of eternal life in the future earthly paradise through the sacrifice of Jesus and the heavenly government of God, the 144000 humans who go to heaven have the task to rule with Jesus to carry out Gods original purpose for the earth, as it was intended for Adam and Eve, all other people will live forever on earth and will make it a paradise! In Luke 23:42-43 Jesus said: “And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.” John 3:13-16 says: “Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man. 14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so the Son of man must be lifted up, 15 so that everyone believing in him may have everlasting life. 16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.”
Everlasting life on paradise earth just like Adam and Eve.
Caroline, this is my last comment here. The biblical interpretation of the WT in this matters are true, if you are willing to examine it again to refresh your knowledge of biblical teachings, you can find it all on http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/h/r1/lp-e and a good book to help is on http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-study/
I wish you, and everyone here (renewed) peace with Jehovah! Know that Jehovah is the only true God and Jesus is His son, on http://www.jw.org/en one can find everything needed to come to a better understanding of the Bible! But we can only understand it with the help of Gods spirit. Jesus said in John 4:23-24 “Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.””
Sincerely :-)

 
 
 Defender says:

 March 3, 2016 at 10:44 am
 
Hello Caroline,
I would like to answer the issues you posed in your last comment.
You wrote: (“I discovered to find out was a deceitful and dangerous cult.”)
I know many JW’s that never experienced it that way till death, they had Jehovah blessing and they were happy most of the time. :-)
(“The Bible only says to refrain from blood but when it came to the Israelites under Moses, the law from Jehovah was that if they came across a dead animal and ate it, that they were unclean until evening.”)
It’s much better to do your best not to get unclean and stay pure in Gods eyes. Acts 15:27-29 says: “For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from BLOOD, from what is STRANGLED, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”
(“If they are speaking as a group in the literature, they are supposedly getting their information straight from Jehovah and Jesus through Holy Spirit…”)
There is a difference between inspiration of the Bible – which was infallibly guided by God, but the GB group seeks the help of Gods holy spirit to be guided by the inspired word of God as well as possible and necessary at that time. But as imperfect people they can interpret something wrong – the facts show however that the interpretation is only getting clearer and more refined in time. That’s what the apostles in the first century also did on issues such as circumcision, they looked in the Scriptures. Gods people in the past – Noah, Abraham Moses ec. – were also led by God but did not know everything right away. At His appointed time, God apparently helps to understand more and more about his plan and understanding it. The Jews had the Bible for centuries, and studying it with zeal, but did not understand everything about the Messiah. When Jesus came He explained what was needed at that time, still most people did not understand. Daniel wrote his Bible-book, but he also did not understand what it was exactly about etc.. The Bible shows that God has acted that way in the past. I can understand very well that this is not easy to understand, but those are the facts and in our time God also works that way. So, if GB/WT is guided by Gods spirit that not means God immediately reveals them everything, only what is needed at this time. Jesus clearly said that he would appoint a slave to organize the gospel and his disciples! It is true that the WT/GB have been overconfident in the past to explain things that they have not understood well enough, but that does not mean that God had rejected them therefore, individual members of the GB were however excluded in the past, if I remember correctly. I have already written that I have experienced the action of the holy spirit in the WT-society and my personal life, and that to me is clear proof that it is Jehovah’s organization and not the GB’s, they also have to be accountable to Jehovah for their acts if they do wrong!
(“There is no scripture in the Bible that says that God is going to restore the earth to a paradise where nobody is going to die.”)
As a former JW you must know that the Bible is about loss of eternal life in the Garden of Eden and the restoration of eternal life in the future earthly paradise through the sacrifice of Jesus and the heavenly government of God, the 144000 humans who go to heaven have the task to rule with Jesus to carry out Gods original purpose for the earth, as it was intended for Adam and Eve, all other people will live forever on earth and will make it a paradise! In Luke 23:42-43 Jesus said: “And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.” John 3:13-16 says: “Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man. 14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so the Son of man must be lifted up, 15 so that everyone believing in him may have everlasting life. 16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.”
Everlasting life on paradise earth just like Adam and Eve.
If someone wants to examine it again to refresh knowledge of biblical teachings, then there is a good book to help on http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-study/ Look up the cited scriptures, then one will see that the statements are in line with de Bible.
We can only understand the Bilbe, and live by it, with the help of Gods spirit. Jesus said in John 4:23-24 “Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.””
Caroline, this is really my last comment, I wish you, and everyone here the best!
Sincerely :-)

 
 
 Caroline says:

 March 3, 2016 at 1:47 pm
 
Defender, again I ask you again to produce even on scripture in the Bible that says that the great crowd are on the earth after Armageddon.
That is what I preached from door to door and believed for fifty years until I actually tried to find it in the Bible. The Society likes to explain it away but in the book of Revelation, it clearly says that the great crowd are in heaven after the battle of Armageddon. When the Bible says that the tent of God is with mankind, it does not say they are on the earth but in heaven. I believed that and preached it for fifty years without even one scripture to back it up. I just believed everything the Watchtower said, thinking it was in the Bible and you are doing the same thing.
When you read any literature from the Watchtower, either on jw.org or printed, look to see how many times they will say something like: seems to be, evidently or anything like that if it’s not clear in the Bible. Jesus said he had other sheep. He didn’t say I have other sheep called the great crowd. When he said I have other sheep, he was referring to Gentiles.
I don’t know if you realize it or not, but you do not even have a mediator between Jehovah and yourself. The Governing Body has reserved that right to themselves in claiming to be the ones that Jehovah speaks to and Jesus is only their mediator between them and Jehovah. If you don’t believe me, then look it up in the Insight on The Scriptures volume two to see it for yourself.
You can’t even pray to God by yourself and expect to be heard. You are only “benefiting” from being in association with the anointed or the Governing Body when they claim the only right to approach God through Jesus Christ. God doesn’t listen to your prayers unless you are of the anointed, according to the Watchtower Society and you are present during a meeting when they are offering up a prayer.
When it comes to the Memorial and you pass the emblems and don’t partake, you are actually going against what the Bible Teach books says on page 206 where it says: “Christians are commanded to observe the Memorial of Christ’s death.”
Are you observing the Memorial or are you an observer? If you are an observer, then you are not a true Christian, even according to the Bible teach book. Think about it. When you claim to be a true Christian and you pass the emblems and don’t partake, you are grieving the Holy Spirit in that you are showing deliberate disrespect for Jesus’ death for you (John 6:53-58) and as Jesus says there, you have no life in yourself and you will not live forever.
Please make other comments here. I think you are counting time but it gives us opportunity to answer some of your apologetics defending your faith. You are probably doing more harm then good in defending the JW religion but there is no harm in trying, is there?
Please answer Cedars’ challenge and I will come back to the meetings.




 
 
 Defender says:

 March 3, 2016 at 3:53 pm
 
Caroline, you’ll find all the answers on http://www.jw.org/en if want to, that’s something you will have to do yourself and play to Jehovah to understand it again!
For me there is no doubt that what I (and other witnesses) believe is consistent with the Bible and true, but we continue to study the Bible and keep learning. Personally, I have experienced the irrefutable evidence of Jehovah’s holy spirit in my life many times, that’s the proof that Jehovah is my God and Jesus is my mediator ec..
God placed Adam and Eve on earth to live there forever, and they had to fill the earth with their children, that was and is Gods will. In Matthew 6:10 Jesus prayed: “Let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, ALSO ON EARTH.”
Gods will for the earth has not changed, people will live on earth and have eternal life on earth, that was and is God’s will!
I have described everything in my earlier comments.
If people seek the truth sincere with humility, then Jehovah can help them, and open their heart (again) to understand the truth…
I wish you the best, bye! :-)

 
 
 
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 March 1, 2016 at 9:12 am
 
Please explain, Defender, why you choose to defy your divinely appointed bosses in New York and visit and contribute to apostate websites. If your Jehovah really exists he will know that you have defied the orders of his one true earthly agent, and he will deal with you accordingly.
Fear not, though, Defender – JW doctrine is indefensible. If there is a god it would have nothing whatever to do with an organistaiton whose sum total of achievements in its 137 year existence amounts to the following:
1. A series of duff prophecies about the date for Armageddon.
2. Thousands of needless deaths, since 1945, from the ever changing blood transfusion edicts.
3. Split families through the orders to shun apostates.
4. Stunted lives through the frowning on education once the ability to read and parrot JW lit. has been acquired.
5. Protection of paedophiles through the 2 witness rule.
6. Nightmares about Armageddon.
7. Mastery of the dark arts of cult mind control.
8 No 7 above, has enabled the Watchtower, via its millions of unpaid mag pushers, to amass a global publishing and property empire.
Here’s to your escape from Watchtower’s clutches and subsequent recovery!
Reply
 
 Defender says:

 March 1, 2016 at 6:23 pm
 
Rowland, I came here because I googled JW and then I clicked on this site and I looked around here.
The points you are quoting are biblical refutable, the Bible is clear about the use of blood and exclusion of persistent sinners, the WT follows the biblical example given by God under His inspiration.
If one is obedient to God then there are no nightmares about Armageddon! 😉
As I wrote earlier, in zeal and enthusiasm the WT have had wrong expectations of the time of the end and maid mistakes. But the first century Christians had wrong expectations also and that did not mean they were not guided by God, Acts 1:6-8 says: “So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction. 8 But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samaria, and to the most distant part of the earth.””. JW’s certainly have the power to witness zealously and joyfully about Gods kingdom! Would it not be possible that that is the proof that Gods spirit is with them?!
If you like you can read more of my experience and testimony here: http://jwsurvey.org/about-jw-survey/comment-page-7#comment-55447
(This is my last comment here, my English writing is not so good/fast, sorry, but you can visit http://www.jw.org/en/ to find out more, and there you can also request a Bible study if you want…)
Best regards :-)
Reply
 
 
 
 lakshman says:

 April 1, 2016 at 7:58 am
 
”God’s people in the past (the Jews) made a lot of mistakes.” Precisely why the kingdom was not given to them (those in the flesh) and given to the gentiles.
Now again, if you wish to use the sincerity card, then that would certainly apply to any serious student of the bible in ANY christian denomination.
There was an awkward time when a sincere JW wasnt expected to login onto forums for unnecessary debate with fading JWs or ‘mentally diseased ‘people . So I understand you of all people should respect our stand, and let us share our experiences.
Reply
 
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 March 2, 2016 at 2:53 am
 
The JW Gov. Bod. cannot have it both ways. If, as you note, Defender, the JW Gov Bod are but imperfect men liable to make mistakes, then they should cease labelling every one of their pronouncements as ‘THE TRUTH’. They are, thus being dishonest.
Honest men would label their statements’ Some ideas that we are kicking around just now’.
I understand your reluctance to acknowledge that the JW religion may not be true. The organisation demands of you such commitment, such forsaking of other ‘worldly’ pursuits, that leaving the organisation would leave you bereft, not only of that delusory feeling of superiority and divine election, but also, due to the cruel edict to shun apostates, of your principal social contacts.
We have never met, Defender, but I am confidemt that your life is worth far more than to be merely an unpaid distributor of the magazines produced by a global publishing corporation which cares for you only as someone who can augment its capital value.
My feeling of relief, once I realised that JW TRUTH is not true, and that the organisation is a fraud, was one of immense relief. My experience is mirrored by that of countless thousands of ex JWs. Together, many of us now seek to warn the world of the dangers of association with this seedy little corner of Christendom (Yes, I know, I was a JW; the Watchtower likes to imagine it is not part of christendom, but as a late 19th century Adventist spinoff sect, how else can it be described? It operates, not on Mars but on Planet Earth, so it is also part of the world!)
I am glad you have defied your leaders and ventured on to an apostate website. On Facebook and other sites you will find reassuring information about the condition of countless other ex JWs and their testimonies.
Here’s to your freedom and fulfilment!
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 March 3, 2016 at 11:13 am
 
You acknowledge, Defender, that the GB make mistakes. It is therfore utterly dishonest of them, and cruelly deceptive, when they label their every pronouncement as ‘THE TRUTH’.
I doubt, Defender, that you are truly a callous man, but the JW version of the Bible God certainly is. Where on earth is the justice in condemning to an Armageddon death the bulk of the world’s population, simply because we choose not to live our lives according to, and have our thoughts controlled by, the diktats of a bunch of men in New York?
The entire authority of the JW Gov Bod rests on their claim to be the ‘Faithful and Discreet Slave’ as referred to by Jesus in Matthew 24. I have asked countless JWs to provide evidence to support that preposterous claim. None has provided any.
Could it be that there is no evidence?
Do you, Defender, have any evidence?
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 March 3, 2016 at 2:28 pm
 
As expected, Defender, no defence of the deceitful use of the word TRUTH by the Governing Body. If all they claim to offer is their current notions then they should be honest.
So, you are in thrall to seven dishonest men.
As expected, zero evidence to demonstrate that the JW Gov. Bod. are the Faithful and Discreet Slave as per Matthew 24. You can produce no evidence because there is none.
I note that you do not choose to reply to me, but to Caroline proceed with long and tortuous prose, peppered, JW style, with a fusillade of disconnected Bible quotes.
I do not expect you to address my points because I know you have nothing to say. It is abundantly clear that you, quite understandably, are desperate to maintain the illusion that JW TRUTH is true. Such is the efficiency of the WT mind control machine, that your entire identity is now bound up with imagining that you are ‘IN THE TRUTH’ and earmarked to be a privileged Armageddon survivor when your all loving Jehovah executes the bulk of humanity.
It may be diificult to believe, but countless thousands of JWs have woken up to the cruel deception inflicted on them over the years or even decades, and, no matter the sacrifice of family support and loss of social contacts, have invariably found life outside in this beautiful world, immeasurably more satisfying than being chained by the diktats of a bunch of guys in New York who care only about your ability to increase the capital value of their global publishing and property corporation.
Here’s wishing you freedom and peace of mind!
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 March 3, 2016 at 4:13 pm
 
@Defender. Hi Defender. You sound sincere and that is fine but just bc you say you have felt Jehovah’s spirit many times that proves it is right. Many other religious people say and feel the same thing. Just bc someone “FEELS” a certain way does not prove anything. I was taught as a New JW that people can be Sincerely wrong. The proof would be in if the things they said came true that would prove they had Jehovah’s spirit and being an inactive JW myself I have to admit that NOTHING the WT has ever said has come true. Not one thing in 135 years. You mentioned that Jehovah is your God and your mediator is Jesus Christ. In actuality the WT teaches quite different than that. They teach that Jesus is only the Mediator for the 144000. Please look it up you will see that is what they teach. How do you feel about the new teaching on the overlapping generation? Do you honestly believe that or do you think they are just trying to give an answer as to why the 1914 generation died out without the end coming?
 Do you NOW accept that the F&D slave is only the 7 men on the GB compared to all of the anointed at anytime on the earth? for decades they taught that it was all of the anointed so now a major change. Did Jesus and Jehovah give them wrong info? How about the change on Blood? Now you can take blood particles but not whole blood? Where does blood particles come from Defender? it comes from Whole blood and from people donating blood! How about the WT joining the UN about 15 yes ago very secretly and then when they got caught they abruptly resigned? If they were right about the UN why did they resign? Did Jehovah direct them to join the UN? Good questions for thinking persons.
 I would appreciate an answer.
Reply
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 March 3, 2016 at 9:40 pm
 
Do you not realise, Defender, that your messages are read by us folk who have already been through this ‘seeking truth with humility via diligent bible study directed by Jehovah’s appointed’ or whatever. We know the mind control methods of the Watchtower Society. Your very writing style betrays that you are the tragic dupe of their schemes.
JW.org is nothing more than the old printed stuff and dreary Kingdom Hall and Convention stuff delivered online. Your readership on here has done all you are urging and have seen the light.
There is no truth in JW TRUTH.
If it makes you feel better, no doubt, should you post again we will read a screed of JW recycled stuff with its blizzard of disconnected bible quotes.
What we will not get, judging by your past comments, is evidence for the Gov. Bod’s status as the Faithful and Discreet slave, justifications for the ever changing diktats on blood which are still sending victims to unnecessary deaths or answers to Holy Connoli’s query about the overlapping 1914 generation nonsense.
Please, Defender, for your own welfare, even if you care not to answer these difficult questions on here, address your mind to the queries of myself and Holy Connoli.
They will indeed help to free your mind and life of the poison infused by your long subjection to Watchtower indoctrination.
Best wishes!
Reply
 
 
 Caroline says:

 March 4, 2016 at 3:21 am
 
Defender, I would like to add something else to Roland’s and Holy Connoli’s comments. How does your conscience allow you to teach the Watchtower as the “truth” when you know that they are lying about when Jerusalem was destroyed?
How do you live with your conscience when you know that if anybody easily finds out by looking in any encyclopedia to prove that the Society is lying about Jerusalem’s being destroyed in 607 B.C.E. but 586/587 instead and they show that to somebody in any encyclopedia that they will be disfellowshipped for talking about it?
The Society has known the true facts about 607 for decades and refuse to admit they are wrong. Who is directing the organization? If you think that Jehovah is going to correct that little problem in his due time, just how long are you willing to wait until you finally figure it out that the Society is being run by men and not any god?
The longer you are in the religion, the harder it is to get out. If you are young, you have your whole life ahead of you. Please do some research on the Organization before you go one more day, blindly following something you know nothing about. You only get one chance at life and even one day spent chasing lies, is one day you will never get back.
Reply
 
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 March 27, 2016 at 9:01 pm
 
Jeanie. How nice of the the WT to “ALLOW” their followers to go tot community college? What business it is of theirs where the JW’s or anyone goes to college or school. None of their business unless the WT agrees to pay someone’s bills then shut up WT! The JW’s are one of the most undereducated region on earth. They are a Real Joke.
Reply
 
 
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An open offer to all workers at Brooklyn, Patterson and Wallkill
avatar 
Posted on August 19, 2013
 
JWsurvey seeks to build a mutually beneficial dialogue with those working inside the Watchtower organization

A few months ago, during my time working with AAWA, I wrote an “open offer” on behalf of that organization that still features on their official website.
The purpose of the offer was to let members of the Governing Body know that, if they chose to meet with us, they could expect a “calm and respectful tone” to any meeting.
Not long after AAWA was launched, I was reminded by one person of how unlikely it was that such an offer would ever be accepted. In reply, I told that person that there was nothing to be lost in trying, and it at least told the outside world that AAWA was willing to take the initiative in helping the organization resolve its issues rather than simply criticizing them.
Since then I have left AAWA and, to my knowledge, no response to the open offer has been forthcoming from the Governing Body. What’s more, even in that brief period, Watchtower’s situation has worsened. Lawyer Irwin Zalkin has launched his third child abuse lawsuit against the organization, and he has told reporters that he has at least ten cases at various stages. The Candace Conti appeal also remains in progress, and I am led to believe it isn’t looking good for Watchtower’s legal team.
Even the fiercest of rivals can find a truce if there is desire by both sides

Within a couple of years Watchtower could conceivably be in a position where they are hemorrhaging legal payouts at an unsustainable rate. Despite this potential cataclysm, there is no sign of any substantial changes to their child abuse policies that would genuinely protect children and silence their critics.
It would therefore make sense for Watchtower to be making tentative steps towards establishing a dialogue with those like myself and others who are willing to help guide the organization towards a state where it is no longer harming people in multiple ways and causing so much controversy.
For this reason I am once again extending the open offer I first made with AAWA. Only this time, there is a difference. I am not only interested in speaking with the Governing Body. I am interested in speaking with ANY brother or sister who works at Watchtower’s facilities in New York, whether at Patterson, Wallkill, Brooklyn, or (in future) at Warwick.
Before I go any further, I would just like to make it absolutely clear that my aim is not to conspire to cause any legal or financial harm to the organization, or to cause any criminal damage. If anything, my proposals would benefit Watchtower by working towards eliminating any justifiable criticism. They offer the potential of helping the organization survive the 21st Century in one piece – something which presently is looking increasingly unlikely.
My intentions are solely to help guide decision-makers into better understanding the concerns of many hundreds of Witnesses, as expressed through our global survey.
Ultimately it is in the interests of everyone, from so-called “apostates” to Governing Body members, for Watchtower to be in a position where it is doing only good, and no harm to anyone anymore. And yes, I believe that with just a few modifications in a few key but non-essential doctrinal and procedural areas, Watchtower can realistically achieve this objective.
Yes, I am an outspoken critic of the organization, and I will remain so for as long as nobody on the inside is making any effort to open a dialogue and listen to the concerns of others. Despite this, I am willing to make sacrifices and act as a go-between if I can see a readiness to listen. And it cannot be said of every Watchtower activist that they are willing to calmly correspond with bethel workers or those at senior levels in the organization without immediately trying to exploit the situation to their advantage.
I should point out that I am not trying or presuming to speak on behalf of the entire online JW community. Yes, I am in contact with a number of people who run other JW websites, but I am just one voice in a large crowd of people calling for change. There are many in the community (some running websites, some not) who have been doing this for much longer than me, and who are far more knowledgeable and experienced than I am. I realize this and I would be delighted if every JW website could extend the offer I am now making, or one similar to it.
I don’t believe it is overly important WHO opens a dialogue with the organization – merely that a dialogue is opened so that the harm being caused can be brought to an end sooner rather than later. This is my chief and overriding concern, and my motive for throwing my hat in the ring and reaching out to the organization in this rather unorthodox way.
The recent article about the JW.org store in France prompted a visit from Watchtower

If any bethel worker responds to my offer, I can assure him or her that I will not divulge any information or leak any details without their express agreement.
Any email correspondence will be carried out in the strictest confidence and with utmost concern for the person’s privacy and predicament.
True, it may take a while to establish a level of trust on both sides, but I am willing to take those first tentative steps if someone on the inside is similarly willing.
There are probably some reading this, barely containing their laughter, who are saying, “surely you don’t expect anyone at Watchtower to even read this offer, let alone respond to it.”
Well you might be surprised to know that bethel workers have visited JWsurvey as recently as June this year (which was the last time I checked). At that time I did a brief search of my web stats and discovered that I had been visited by the “Watchtower Bible And Tract Society Of New York.” Someone in Watchtower apparently took an interest in my article on the JW.org store.
It is therefore not unreasonable to suggest that bethel workers check up on JWsurvey from time to time. When they do, I want them to know that this offer exists and that I am ready and eager to open a line of communication with them without placing them at any risk. It certainly costs me nothing to offer the hand of friendship, and the potential gains could be unimaginable.
 




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33 Responses to An open offer to all workers at Brooklyn, Patterson and Wallkill

 Sabastious says:

 August 19, 2013 at 2:30 pm
 
I too believe that the organization CAN be reformed into a respectable 21st century religion. However, what you will find, my friend, is that the Watchtower isn’t interested in being respectable. They are here to wage theological war and they intend to win. The endgame is total control over the human mind, body and spirit. To them there are only two classes: us and them. I appreciate your optimism, Cedars, and I wish your offer all the best, but I don’t see it panning out.
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 August 19, 2013 at 2:35 pm
 
Thanks Sabastious. I understand your reasons for pessimism and share them to some degree. However, I have to go back to my original reasoning, which is “there’s no harm in trying.” As fun as it is to take pot shots at the Society week in, week out, I would much rather see an end to the harm. If the Society snubs my efforts, that’s up to them. At least I can look at myself and know I’ve tried everything.
Reply
 
 
 
 Sabastious says:

 August 19, 2013 at 3:18 pm
 
Cedars, there certainly isn’t any harm in trying. I grew up in a household where parents vehemently debated silly subjects such as whether or not there would be meat in the new system. Or whether or not we were all going to live in the nude like Adam and Eve. In my early adult life I fretted over the fate of my relationship with my wife should one of us die before Armageddon. I was very frightened and there were no answers. This all came at a shock to me because I was supposedly born into a religion that had all the answers. What luck! 😉
All throughout my Watchtower experience I wanted nothing but to change everything I saw. I wanted to tweak the system, but was met with strong negative reaction whenever I attempted. I always saw potential, but never the ability to change. Now I am on the outside looking in like so many others. On a life boat watching the ship sink to the bottom of the sea.
That’s why the Tower fell, because it wasn’t about change. It was about setting up a big latter and watching others climb, fall and sometimes succeed.
Reply
 
 
 kathleen Conti says:

 August 19, 2013 at 3:20 pm
 
I am ready and eager to open a line of communication with them without placing them at any risk. Sooner or later Jehovah’s Witnesses are going to start feeling the effects of there beloved Organization falling apart at the seams as the old adage goes! There is more risk to Jehovah’s Witnesses by not taking the first steps to right the wrongs that the Watchtower is finding it’s self up against, and these problems will only get worse in the near future. This invitation is coming from a person who genuinely wants to help make positive changes for all Jehovah’s Witnesses whether you are serving in a Congregation or at Bethel. You may not respond today but I can assure you that that one “critical event” that will make it impossible for you to ignore is coming sooner then you think, please remember that we just want to help because we have been exactly where you are now.
Reply
 
 
 john says:

 August 19, 2013 at 3:27 pm
 
Cedars i commend you for trying and i hope they do take up your offer, but if they don’t then we really know where they come from as they are unwilling to follow bible admonition by being open minded and not unduly reasonable. It has been said its hard to reason facts with facts when it comes to the JW mentality. In my opinion those of the Governing body should be held personally liable for their blatant disregard for secular law as regards reporting of such matters. They are just as much a accomplice to the abuser by allowing these individuals to remain among their ranks where the potential is great for them to repeat the offense again. Being isolated from the real world they really don’t understand the long term harm their causing these helpless trusting young victims. In a sense they are allowing further damage to the victim long term that causes them to suffer in many ways. We know the bible tells us “you will reap what you sow” and for the WTBS it is harvest time for their defiant stand of assuming the ultimate authority. They deserve whatever comes their way and i have no pity for them. I know all to well with my family tree and other relatives who are still JW’S the devastating effects of child abuse first hand and its long term effects upon the victims of child abuse. It outright disgusts me that they allow the non reporting of such offenses only for the reason of keeping face. After all what kind of apathy could we expect from the Governing body when most if not all have no Children. Jesus said to be like children, well wasn’t he saying how we should be innocent as they are? But yet they can’t follow bible counsel in many ways and end up not protecting the innocence of these children. They are a authority unto themselves in everything they do. They try to be unique because of their being the professed channel from God himself. I have one question for the whole Governing body and that’s DO YOU THINK GOD WOULD ALLOW YOU TO ALLOW SUCH INJUSTICES TOWARDS HIS CHILDREN IF YOU ARE HIS APPOINTED CHANNEL FOR MANKIND?
Reply
 
 
 john says:

 August 19, 2013 at 3:39 pm
 
On a personal note my heart goes out to you on behalf of Candice and your whole Family. Thank that young lady for me as i have a 26 yr old daughter myself and have always made her aware of what could happen to her from child abusers. I love her with my whole heart and don’t know what i would do if that was ever to occur to her while she was young. I feel for you as a parent and commend your efforts to expose such a flawed policy on reporting that will hopefully protect children in the future. Again Thank You
Reply
 
 
 Juan Viejo says:

 August 19, 2013 at 3:56 pm
 
Cedars – excellent article. As you are well aware, you would have scores of supporters that would contribute in any number of ways if setting up a meeting with the GB or their representatives was possible. The problem you and the rest of us face is that we are just tiny little voices crying out in the wilderness. The Watchtower doesn’t care who we are or even how many of us stand against them. The Watchtower is so tiny compared to the general population, that so far no government (except for possibly the Russians) has felt the need to act against them in spite of their gross crimes and misdemeanors. We – even those of us who have banded together and organized in some way – are even more insignificant in the grand scheme of things. The Watchtower will never come to the table until they are facing dozens of lawsuits for child abuse, wrongful death, theft of assets, and the breaking of contracts and realize that they will be paying out more money than can possibly be donated. We’ve got to make every civil authority aware of what they are up to and we have to encourage every JW to stop donating funds – not even a dollar. Only when their bank accounts are empty and the local sheriffs arrive to arrest them and sieze their assets will they realize they have been beaten. That’s when they will be willing to sit down with someone to work out a compromise. I doubt that I will live to see that ever happen, but am happy to work with you on laying the groundwork.
Reply
 
 
 Erik says:

 August 19, 2013 at 4:48 pm
 
I am happy you are making this offer again Cedars. Let’s “keep on knocking, keep on asking”…those of us who believe in a higher power know that he is watching and waiting to see what each of us do individually. The “cowards are to be thrown into the lake of fire”; showing that we need to be brave and stay brave.
 Kathleen Conti; You stand for every mother who tried to protect her child, and was assured that she was safe among Jehovah’s Witnesses, for every mother who has seen her child hurt!! “Do not despise the day of small things”; the acts and the words we each do and write today are preserved for future readers. Amen!
Reply
 
 
 JimmyG says:

 August 19, 2013 at 6:02 pm
 
Hi Cedars. You may not want to answer this question, but why did you leave AAWA?
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 August 21, 2013 at 1:22 am
 
You’re right, I’d rather not answer that! Sorry! :)
Reply
 
 
 
 gary says:

 August 19, 2013 at 7:32 pm
 
We shall see. I tend to be openminded. I came in from the outside. It was everything.some call it ellenore rigby:-) however somthing woke me up. So many sad and unhappy stories. What ever happens its beginning.
Reply
 
 
 gary says:

 August 19, 2013 at 7:33 pm
 
I could tell you quite few. nite.
Reply
 
 
 former elder says:

 August 20, 2013 at 3:27 am
 
I dont believe that a religious organization can find the favour of god. Already Rutherford in the book “Enemies” declared that organized religion stems from Satan. And so we see – they repeat all what Rutherford had condemned. at least they are “church” now, where I was told that a church accepted by CEsar pays gods things to Cesar
Reply
 
 
 JF0911 says:

 August 20, 2013 at 4:17 am
 
Ecclésiaste 1:15. There is no objective reason to allow WT to survive. She does not deserve it.
Reply
 
 David Martin says:

 March 21, 2015 at 5:34 pm
 
Yet…. it lives and thrives. wonder why that is? No, actually you wouldn’t, You’re just hard hearted cause you got the boot. It’s okay, we understand. It’s tough hating an organization, because you wish it were one person you could direct your hate to. It’s okay, again we understand.
Reply
 
 
 
 WT Critic says:

 August 20, 2013 at 4:58 am
 
Cedars, How many times did you see visits from Watchtower visitors?
Reply
 
 
 george says:

 August 20, 2013 at 5:03 am
 
A noble act, Cedars. Mrs. Conti, I would like to add my sincere sympathy to those of the other posters. I cannot imagine the horror you and your daughter have been through. I am hopeful that your brave stand will aid so many more to seek justice.
I cannot see Jehovah’s Witnesses surviving the end of the 21st century in its current form. They must see that. I hope that they will change their immoral attitude to reporting abuse to the authorities. I am telling everyone I know about this disgusting policy. Best wishes George
Reply
 
 
 george says:

 August 20, 2013 at 5:05 am
 
One further thing. At no time in the bible was wrong doing covered up by God to avoid shame and a bad witness to the nations. God always uncovered sin, in public and solutions were expressed unambiguously. The GB have no right to cover up horrific crimes, solely to keep a good name. It’s completely unscriptural
Reply
 
 
 70wksofyrs says:

 August 20, 2013 at 5:30 am
 
I agree with your motives Cedars, the olive branch approach is the most sensible and loving. If open dialogue is what you are seeking and the GB always recognise this if reading articles on your site, you are beyond reproach with hundreds of witnesses. If members of the GB are visiting your site with bad motives, to try and close you down or write articles about apostate websites, that is their problem….at least you are extending the olive branch and each visit you get from them…they will see. So keep on writing articles that offer open dialogue, well done.
Reply
 
 
 Alden says:

 August 20, 2013 at 11:26 pm
 
Hi Juan, a stunningly good contribution! We think along similar lines.
Reply
 
 
 Alden says:

 August 20, 2013 at 11:45 pm
 
Cedars, good showing! Your intentions are good and that’s what counts before God the most. It’s bigger than we are and takes someone “Bigger” to handle it. It’s good for us that we love our enemies, while hating the bad inside them. Cheers Mate!
Reply
 
 
 Thinking of leaving says:

 August 22, 2013 at 11:02 pm
 
The day they call you for a meeting will be same day I put my full name and address on here and ask them to disfellowship me, and we both know that there is more chance of pigs flying. I did however find your sincerity amusing.
Reply
 
 
 george says:

 August 24, 2013 at 2:35 am
 
This is not just an amusing sign of sincerity. It is part of a long term strategy. Eventually the GB will mess up spectacularly. They already have. By offering to talk, by providing the survey, Cedars is demonstrating that the GB WERE warned. They will not be able to say that they were unaware of the many problems. Well done, Cedars!
Reply
 
 David Martin says:

 March 21, 2015 at 6:01 pm
 
…what do you mean the Governing Body was warned? The GB as you call them, did what the “law” instructed them to do. Why is that only ONE case has been adjudged. Whereas the Catholic Church, the Protestant Church and several others have literally thousands of lawsuits on the books. Jehovahs Witnesses were and are still one of the strictest religions ever on earth. What makes you think they would EVER comply with, or be complicate with the rape or molestation, of CHILDREN? Every sect of human beings, has abhorrent people within it. There are, Criminal people everywhere. It’s called imperfection. And as strict a religion as everyone says they are, what makes you think they would knowingly protect some who take such gross advantage of children! You single them out, because you feel they singled you out. You were unjustly criticized, or even removed. But we all know, that was really your choice. So hate who you may, hate even me. But chances are, you’re hating in your own small world. It’s lonely place to be. Hate just scribbles your world up!
Reply
 
 Nancy says:

 March 23, 2015 at 9:24 am
 
There is no other organization on Earth which calls itself “The Truth” and whose leaders say everything they decide is by The Holy Spirit and say nobody but them are God approved. Are you not aware that if you disagree with any decisions of the governing body of Jehovah’s Witnesses, come the war of “the great day of God the Almighty” (Revelation 16:14), you will be executed by Jesus Christ The Prince of Peace, according to JW dogma? Is that not what they teach?
Is there nothing wrong with allowing elder or ministerial privileges to a man accused of child abuse? The Bible says a man with an accusation against him should not serve. (1 Timothy 3:7) But the governing body have said an accusation needs to come with proof. The Bible says nothing about proof.
I think they have let people go about their JW business even after testimony that they have been abusive. Testimony, true or false, should be enough for the taking away of sacred privileges which includes going door to door with good news. If someone is allowed in the ministry it must be assumed that he or she is irreprehensible.
Do you see the difference between JW treatment of the problem and other churches?
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Nancy says:

 August 25, 2013 at 9:40 am
 
I agree with JF0911. There are so many things wrong with their teachings, they cannot possibly be acquited. If they were to “become white like snow” (Isaiah 1:18) they wouldn’t be the Watchtower anymore. Can they deny themselves? I am sure it is possible, it is not likely though.
 I also agree with Sab. They will win this or die trying. What will they win? They want to win the Earth.
 They have been left to save face, but only according to their own opinion of themselves. It is very sad.
Reply
 
 
 Les Hoy says:

 September 24, 2013 at 6:12 pm
 
Cedars, your attempt is commendable !
…. however we are dealing with an antichrist here and it’s complete evil control and bad indoctrination.
 Pride is the face of it all but i pray that good will come even in it’s destruction.
Reply
 
 
 JW-4EVER!!! says:

 October 25, 2013 at 2:08 pm
 
You are unique Cedar. No other non-believers or apostates (harsher word) would offer such a deal. I for one who will be a JW-4EVER applaud your desire to help the organization salvage these difficult times. I am equally perplexed by the organizations rock hard stance concerning child abuse. They need to change that policy and throw the child molesters to the dogs (the police) before alerting the elders. I also applaud your desire to open a dialogue with the Governing Body on those terms.
I, as stated, will be a JW-4EVER because I was born into this and I like it. I feel good on the inside. I also like your desire for reform. I trust your honesty and feel that you have no ulterior motive. Hopefully, some on the inside will listen to you and begin some dialogue. The Governing Body means well. I truly believe this having met some many, many years ago. I love the structure of the organization, the simplicity with which we live our lives (no holidays, etc) and the assemblies where we sing and listen in brotherhood and fellowship. These things I love and will continue to do.
I am not pessimistic about your efforts. Given time and chance as Ecclesiastes states you may be rewarded in your attempts. Also as the parable that Jesus used about the old lady and her demands for justice, persistence pays off. So keep it up and there may be a turnaround. Here’s to you and your efforts. Keep up the good work.
By the way more articles on the financial structure of the organization will be appreciated. I am a Nosey Nellie and just like knowing. I love numbers and math so all this information is just like a juicy fruit to my palate.
Reply
 
 
 skally says:

 October 27, 2013 at 1:50 pm
 
Cedars,
Please do not tell me you are setting up a meeting with the gb, on your lil’ vacation. Just what are yiu doing and why have you deleted most of my posts from your site here? Surely, I do not pose any threat to you and your organization(s). Surely.
Just what are you up to? And is Vince your new sidekick these days?
Reply
 
 
 Peter Bartley says:

 April 11, 2015 at 8:49 am
 
Yes well good luck with any dialogue you may have with them. It’s not going to happen of course, they are way too arrogant to even consider talking to you. Good on you for trying though. Keep up the good work.
Reply
 
 
 Average Joe says:

 September 30, 2015 at 2:35 pm
 
Surely the subtitle to this article and its icon to the right of each page should be:
“Do you STILL work at Bethel…?!”
Given all the recent cutbacks ha ha
Reply
 
 Bart says:

 November 5, 2015 at 7:48 am
 
Hahaha, I’m sure there will be some new visitors in the near future! Welcome friends. :)
Reply
 
 
 
 Franko says:

 December 20, 2015 at 12:18 am
 
Dear Cedars, of all the misguided attepts at reconciliation, no one mentions the importance of spiritual guidance. You see, nothing can be achieved without the Divine intervention of the one and only true God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, through his son Yeshua( Jesus). If an organisation is built on a foundation of deceit and falsehood, what is there to ‘rebuild’ by man. You cannot have the answer for this organization, you are longingly reaching out, but if it is not The will of God, you can only pray for them. You will not be their saviour. Go back and research the foundation of this false religion and if it is not revealed to you , then I am afraid for you. Your longing to get back is a sign that you still believe in a false god whose name was created by the Roman Catholics.
Reply
 
 
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← Extra leak: Personal Qualifications Report (or snitching form) now available
 
The Friday Column: Governing Body Issues Apology to Abuse Victims, Announces Radical Policy Changes
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Posted on April 1, 2016
 
NOTE TO JW SURVEY READERS: THE FOLLOWING ARTICLE,  RELEASED ON APRIL 1ST, IS INTENDED TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THE POLICIES OF THE WATCHTOWER ORGANIZATION ARE HARMFUL AND IN MANY CASES DEADLY. IT IS OUR DESIRE THAT THE HEADLINES BELOW DEALING WITH ABUSE, INDOCTRINATION, AND BLOOD POLICY WILL ONE DAY BECOME A REALITY
April 1st 2016
Breaking News
In an unexpected turn of events, the Watchtower Organization has issued an apology to victims of child abuse who were denied justice over the past 50 years, and has authorized congregation elders, ministerial servants, and individual members to contact child protection authorities and law enforcement immediately upon learning of any accusations of abuse to a minor child.
In a letter to elders, the Governing Body has agreed to rescind  its infamous “Two Witness Rule”, but only for cases involving children who have come forward about abuse which took place while they were minors. The 7-member panel cited suggestions from the Australian Royal Commission and other child protection experts as the basis upon which the policy changes were made, stating that these alterations do not conflict with their Christian beliefs and principles.
In related policy changes, the organization has announced that it will no longer require minor children to submit to the extensive Jehovah’s Witness baptismal procedure, which includes a grueling 80-question vetting process performed by 3 different elders. Children will still be allowed to be baptized, but without  the 80 questions, and without being publicly required to answer yes to the following question:
“Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization?”
The net result will be that children may still follow the religion of their parents, but without the severe consequences of disfellowshipping and  shunning if  they become adults and choose to exercise their right to change their beliefs.
Attached to the new Governing Body directive is the revised blood transfusion policy, which states:

“The Governing Body has concluded that while we still believe blood to be the sacred embodiment of life, it will be up to each Christian to decide whether to accept a blood transfusion when deemed necessary. Significant advancements in science, along with the understanding that Jehovah’s command to the Israelites and early Christians applied to the original Law Covenant, has revealed to us  that transfusions are a personal medical decision. We trust that all of Jehovah’s people will respond positively to our increased understanding of the scriptures.”
In addition to these major changes, the Governing Body has announced that it has added one member to its executive leadership counsel, presidential candidate and New York billionaire Donald Trump.
 
governing body trump
Donald Trump joins the elite Jehovah’s Witness Governing Body
 
 
OK, by now you realize that it is April 1st, and none of the information above is true.
To the outside world, such changes in policy would seem to be a very reasonable compromise, particularly in light of increasing media scrutiny of the caustic practices of Jehovah’s Witness leadership. Throughout the world, tens of thousands have lost their lives in hospitals, where trained Witness elders swarm to the side of patients in need of blood, preventing doctors from doing the one thing they are trained to do: save lives.
Children are subjected to years of propaganda in the form of books, videos, and peer pressure from fellow Witness companions, who are themselves victims of this process. Before they reach puberty, they are dragged into the public eye every weekend and forced to knock on doors instead of going to soccer, football or baseball practice. Relentless conditioning batters their desire to excel in academics or sports, leaving no alternative path but the one which results in a water baptism. Once baptized, there is no turning back. A child who recognizes later that he or she has made a mistake has no recourse – if he chooses to leave, he will be abandoned by every friend he has ever known, and every family member including his parents.
For those young ones who were touched, abused, neglected, or beaten by adults inside the organization, there is no due process. Criminal offenses such as these are treated as “sin” first, and must be reported to elders, rather than legal authorities who are trained to intervene and protect such children. Only when forcibly compelled to contact police will Witness elders comply with the law, and only then after contacting the legal department of the Watch Tower Society.
 
What is the solution?
If you are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, perhaps even a member of the New York headquarters staff, give some thought to the opening paragraphs of this article and ask yourself whether such changes are unreasonable.
If God is the giver and preserver of life, would he really oppose the transfusion of blood? Would he allow a Witness to die, when membership and preaching is considered so critical in these turbulent times? God has apparently already given permission to Witnesses to accept blood fractions, which are derived from whole blood. Do you really believe the Almighty looks with favor on parents who fight the transfusion which would save a baby’s life?
On the matter of child baptism, do you truly believe it is just and righteous to place the heavy burden of baptism on a child, considering the fact that every teen or preteen is so easily influenced by his peers and parents? Why not permit a child to leave the organization, instead of holding his family and friends as hostages should he decide to take a different pathway? While you may believe that his course will result is his drift from God, do you really have the right to penalize him for his free will?
And finally, when it comes to justice for those abused, would it violate God’s law to report cases of abuse to the police and child protection authorities? Would this not benefit others, including non-Jehovah’s Witnesses who may have been victimized by the same perpetrator? Certainly there is nothing unscriptural about protecting children and allowing qualified secular authorities to handle the matter.
Consider this a sincere appeal to the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses to strike down the influential policies which have redirected and stolen the lives of millions over the past century, all in the name of loyalty to God and one organization. Remember, the JW religion claims to be a volunteer faith. By definition, this means one can enter and leave at will. But this is not the case. Joining comes at great cost, and leaving is even more expensive. Let these people go; release them from medical suicide, release them from child indoctrination, release them from abuse. As Moses said to Pharaoh:
Let my people go.
 
John Redwood
 
 
 
 
 


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← Extra leak: Personal Qualifications Report (or snitching form) now available
 
166 Responses to The Friday Column: Governing Body Issues Apology to Abuse Victims, Announces Radical Policy Changes


Newer Comments →
 
 Malachi Sawyer says:

 April 1, 2016 at 1:21 pm
 
Hahaha you totally got me. Good one but you make very valid points. I’m sure many wish it wasn’t a prank but WTS being what it is we can’t expect any better.
Reply
 
 
 Born 2 B Free says:

 April 1, 2016 at 1:23 pm
 
These are matters involving ruined, destroyed lives. I personally know several people that have committed suicide because of these issues.
Making light of such things is disrespectful to those that have suffered and to those that are still struggling to rebuild their lives. Sorry to be the curmudgeon here, but these matters are far too serious for such foolishness.
Reply
 
 ApostateShamostate says:

 April 1, 2016 at 1:32 pm
 
I do understand your feelings but please remember that sometimes it does us good to laugh as well as cry. As someone who was abused both as a child and an adult by the witnesses I can hand on heart say that sometimes it is nice when things are not taken too seriously and I don’t feel like a ‘sad person.’ I hope that makes sense, I do tend to ramble on!
These matters are serious and I think John Redwood was making a very serious matter in to something easily understandable. What he has written shouldn’t be an April fools and the fact that it is is ridiculous and this article highlights that point very well.
I am really sorry that you have lost people to suicide, please accept so much fellow exjw love.
 xxx
Reply
 
 
 
 Sonja says:

 April 1, 2016 at 1:31 pm
 
Soo reasonable I was about to throw a party!!! I kid you not. My son is being held hostage by this organization. So I am still, Silent Red Sonja
Reply
 
 Sval says:

 April 1, 2016 at 2:49 pm
 
I felt the exact same way. I too have a son being held hostage. I thought “oh my gosh maybe my son and his family will have a chance”. I have to keep quiet also.
Reply
 
 
 Ren says:

 April 1, 2016 at 5:18 pm
 
I almost started to cry when I read the child baptism part. I thought maybe my daughter wouldn’t hold my 13-year-old baptism over my head, and consent to let me see my grandchildren. But alas . . .
Reply
 
 
 
 Gary says:

 April 1, 2016 at 1:31 pm
 
I don’t mean to be rude but I found that article to be in very poor taste. People have died.
Reply
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 1, 2016 at 1:51 pm
 
Dear Gary
Thank you for your viewpoint. I agree with you that many people have died, and this is exactly why I am drawing attention to the fact that the Watchtower organization could easily revise its policies to save lives, while still maintaining beliefs which do not harm or influence people unjustly. As you know, at JW Survey we do not take death lightly, and we endeavor each day to seek out ways of ending the devastating influence of this organization. Please read the 2nd half of the article again; I am sure you will understand that we are very concerned with ending controlling influences which have done so much damage over the years.
JR
Reply
 
 Gary says:

 April 1, 2016 at 11:10 pm
 
I’ve lived the second part of the article.
 If your saying it’s my fault for not reading the whole aricle so be it but that’s not the point I’m making as my comment a few moments later reveal. Cheers.
Reply
 
 
 starlight says:

 April 2, 2016 at 12:05 am
 
Hi Redwood, can you please explain what JWs beliefs do not harm or influence people unjustly? Do you believe in God? If you don’t believe in him, why would you like that an organization teach such a lie? Thanks.
Reply
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 2, 2016 at 9:38 am
 
Dear Starlight – I am not sure I understand your question, can you re-phrase it?
 Thanks
 JR
Reply
 
 Starlight says:

 April 5, 2016 at 2:40 pm
 
@Redwood: You said “I am drawing attention to the fact that the Watchtower organization could easily revise its policies to save lives, while still maintaining beliefs which do not harm or influence people unjustly”. What are those beliefs you would like the society maintain once they revised their policies? Do you agree on any degree with the JWs teaching?

 
 
 
 
 
 
 Rowland Nelken says:

 April 1, 2016 at 1:34 pm
 
I was fooled right up to the Donald Trump announcment.
Reply
 
 
 Sharon444@sbcglobal.net says:

 April 1, 2016 at 1:44 pm
 
You had me going all the way up to the part about Donald Trump. Those things are so reasonable. It is not too much to ask.
Reply
 
 ronnyb says:

 April 3, 2016 at 4:45 am
 
For them it would be too much to ask indeed,for they would have to ackowledge a huge error on their part that caused the unnecesary deaths of many followers and they would lose credibility not only with new prospecting members but with old alike.
Reply
 
 
 
 Gary says:

 April 1, 2016 at 1:53 pm
 
My apologies. . I was so happy and thought we had achieved (all) a huge success. I was so disappointed to read Donald Trump:-(
 Such joy so short lived.
Reply
 
 
 Stan Jones says:

 April 1, 2016 at 1:56 pm
 
I joke of very poor taste!
Reply
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 1, 2016 at 3:03 pm
 
Dear Stan
Your comments are welcome here. Please let us know why you feel the article was in poor taste. If you read the entire article, you will understand that this is not a joke. We would like to see these headlines in the future, but so far Watchtower has failed to revise their policies in a way that does not cause harm. The final part of the article is a request to the Governing Body to think rationally of their rules and policies, and to change them. Certainly this is no joking matter
Sincerely
JR
Reply
 
 
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 April 1, 2016 at 2:04 pm
 
Good article. It shows how people are thirsty of seeing the justice for the oppressed…
(Matthew 5:6) . . .“Happy are those hungering and thirsting for righteousness, since they will be filled.
Let us keep “hungering and thirsting for righteousness”!!
Reply
 
 
 Chiafade says:

 April 1, 2016 at 2:20 pm
 
Even if the joke part of the article were true (not the Donald Trump part) it doesn’t absolve them. If they did change the blood policy to a conscience matter it would mean that yet another apology BETTER immediately follow. For those who went along with it.Too many have died because of the stupid blood policy.
Reply
 
 AnonymousL0pht says:

 April 1, 2016 at 4:52 pm
 
@Chia – as upsetting as it is when groups destroy lives–groups being corporations, governments, gangs, cults, or charities–it is also as disenchanting to realize that with a policy change comes realization that the cause of deaths, pain & suffering, and other issues and scars was moot and easily could have been made a non-issue. Just think of the lives that could have been saved if the knowledge being spread that blood components is an alternative to whole-blood transfusion was not a matter of conscience (leaving everyone confused as to what is “right”) or that the entire issue of medical treatment was NOT a matter for control and influence.
The offense could be taken at the perpetrators of this control and abuse not those who satirically highlight the absurdity–its sisyphean nature. Those who think nothing of the thousands if not millions lives they impact with a swipe of the pen and a whim of interpreting scripture, imposing their man-made views onto others with the threat of disavowing and shunning at the slightest hint of variance yet knowing with full conscience these matters of enforcement are subject to change and even a completely opposite viewpoint–whether it is Sodom and Gomorrah being resurrected into the Kingdom of God or the flag salute. Nothing is “core” truth, even if it has existed for 100+ years as such.
Reply
 
 
 
 Jeffreycanning says:

 April 1, 2016 at 2:30 pm
 
Grrr… It’s april 2 here in Oz. So wasn’t expecting a joke, and thought for one fleeting moment.I migjt reconnect with family who shun me. Not to be sadly. But it was written tongue in cheek so well done as it highlights how much this demonic cult has cost us… Mr Trump would be a fantastic addition to the. GB. He would slot in seamlessly.
Reply
 
 
 Fading Truth says:

 April 1, 2016 at 2:34 pm
 
The whole article could have been framed without the insensitive ‘April Fools’ joke premise. Misleading readers for the first half of a post on a topic relating to child abuse and death was neither witty or appreciated.
Reply
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 1, 2016 at 2:56 pm
 
Dear Fading Truth
We appreciate your comments, and we hope that you will look more deeply at the meaning behind the article. The intent is to show how Watchtower does indeed have the ability to change its own policies, but the lack of change has contributed to many abuses and deaths over the years. As you are aware, we are trying to effect change and raise awareness of serious issues which influence and damage lives. There are many paths leading to change, and sometimes humor can be a useful tool in making people think about serious issues and how we can address them
Sincerely
JR
Reply
 
 Ren says:

 April 1, 2016 at 5:35 pm
 
Yes, but John, I had my heart in my throat for the first few paragraphs. It was like someone telling me that I might get to see my daughter again, letting me hope as I’ve not hoped before, and then to read that you’re just kidding–no, I won’t get to see her or my grandchildren again. It’s been almost three years since I’ve seen them, and I miss them so much. Can you not begin to see how this might play with people’s broken hearts? I do understand that the last half makes a good point, and I really do appreciate all the articles on here, but it was a mean thing to do, even though the intention was good. Please reconsider in future.
Reply
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 1, 2016 at 5:53 pm
 
Ren
Your story is hearbreaking, and we are doing everything we can both behind the scenes and in public to end the corrupt policies which have led to your separation from your family. I was hoping that given this was released on April 1st, most people would realize right away that this was not real news. Also, I made sure that people understood why I ran this article in the 2nd half. I apologize for causing any grief, and know that we are doing everything we can to reconnect you with your family
JR
Reply
 
 Ren says:

 April 2, 2016 at 7:01 am
 
Thank you, JR. And thank you for adding the disclaimer at the beginning. This will give people a heads up. :)

 
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 2, 2016 at 9:52 am
 
Thanks Ren!
Unlike the Governing Body, we care about and respond to the feelings of our readers. Not everyone will agree with every article or viewpoint, and this is to be expected. But we write with integrity and honesty, hoping that uncovering truth and logic will awaken people to the undue influence of this religion.
Cheers
 JR

 
 
 
 ronnyb says:

 April 3, 2016 at 5:23 am
 
I also agree with you Ren on. Humor and satire can be used for certain things ,but in this case its in poor taste and uncalled for….I also was saying to myself as I read,” wow, this is major! Im calling mom as soon as i can and ask her opinion since my step dad had died by lack of blood” when I read the trump part and the thought, ” oh really!” and felt like a fool on april fools. Would anyone make a joke of the 3000 + dead in 9/11 just to add a funny note to aleve the sadness? Dont think so.
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 April 3, 2016 at 5:41 am
 
I’m simply amazed that people are invoking atrocities such as the holocaust and 9/11 in trying to validate their anger over a piece of satire about Watchtower failing to make straightforward changes to protect children. The levels of desperation people will sink to in order to service and add momentum to their hurt feelings is just astonishing.

 
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 3, 2016 at 9:07 am
 
Dear Ronnyb
You can’t use the comparison to 9/11 – this was a horrific and tragic event which occurred in the past and cannot be reversed. However the destructive policies of the JW organization are very much ongoing; they are playing out like a slowly executed terrorist plot, killing one victim at a time. Hence, the satire directed against this organization is very valid and is intended to STOP the madness and help victims.
I am deeply saddened that you lost your step-dad to the blood policy. This is exactly what we are trying to stop, and we take this very seriously. The Trump comment punctuated the satire, reminding us that this is not real. This should be a wake-up call for any who want to help us speed the process along and end the religious bullying and indoctrination which has affected so many lives. We don’t just want to preach to the choir – we want the choir to join us.
Sincerely,
JR

 
 
 
 
 GAMEISOVER says:

 April 3, 2016 at 1:17 am
 
John: You could have raised awareness in the exact same manner had you prefaced the article with something like “Could we imagine some day, in the near future, the governing body sending all congregations a letter like this?”:
If we have not been abused as a child we don’t know how it FEELS, or the worthlessness that lingers on and on.
I really believed it until you mentioned April 1st. That is because we have trusted you so much. Big let down.
Then you criticize those that were offended by it. Whatever happened to being respectful of everyones’ feelings and opinions?
We long so much for things to be the way you wrote. Making everyone think it had happened was not humorous. It was no joke. It was not funny.
I know you meant well. And you are a superb writer as is Cedar. The points you make are excellent.
 But all of us who have escaped that lager are burnt out. Emotions are not a game.
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 April 3, 2016 at 3:22 am
 
GAMEISOVER – “Then you criticize those that were offended by it. Whatever happened to being respectful of everyones’ feelings and opinions?”
Ah, yes. Expressing a different opinion = lack of respect, bullying, oppression, stifling free speech… etc, etc. If I had a dollar for every time I heard this kind of reasoning from exJWs…
If you don’t like something, you are free to express your opinion and move on. You don’t have to beat everyone into submission until they agree with you.
Reply
 
 GAMEISOVER says:

 April 3, 2016 at 12:07 pm
 
Do you have a ghost writer? This comment doesn’t sound like
 Your kind-natured self.
 Sorry if I offended you.

 
 
 
 
 
 ThePenthouseExperience says:

 April 3, 2016 at 6:32 pm
 
Observing some of the “I’m offended” replies, I note that the offense I initially held seems to stem from being “suckered” into believing the Watchtower was making a 180-degree turn and issuing apologies and acknowledging its misconduct in handling child abuse, and sexual assault cases. I had to ask myself where that “sting” comes from, and it is really misdirected anger, because deep down, I am angered at a corrupt enterprise from which I feel I’ll never get an apology I strongly desire.
And, by acknowledging that I’m clinging onto a system that continues to control and keeps me powerless, I’m acknowledging that I need to make a break and continue my journey which is daunting and intimidating but not an impossibility.
Also, this apology felt empty, where was the change needed to show repentance–am I right elders who’ve sat on reinstatement committees?–what policies and procedures have been adopted to check elder cover-ups of misbehavior? The above article’s information underwrites my fears and frustrations.
On the other hand, if the Watchtower has issued an apology–which I did desire, what is left? why am I still hurting? why do I continue to feel the victim? Maybe the apology doesn’t provide total healing, it did affirm that I was hurt and harmed, but why am I still needing external authorities to validate me or my feelings?
But, let’s call the apology a step forward on the healing journey–a call to action. The remainder of that journey is on me, and again, fear, intimidation and the daunting discomfort of leaving my comfort zone to seek out healing, gives me heartburn and leaves me feeling vulnerable and exposed similar to the feelings I had when I was abused.
Am I being mocked and ridiculed? Harassed? These feelings are the same as when I was assaulted, thus I am angry. Cedars’ website victimized me–again. Or, did it?
After realizing I was “suckered” I immediately linked to feelings I had when I realized the corrupt enterprise would not give me justice in the case of my sexual assault, or that certain teachings were flickering lights not guiding lights. I’m not in that place where I can look back and laugh about that dark place I was, so I am lashing out in defense mode.
Reply
 
 
 
 Amy says:

 April 1, 2016 at 2:41 pm
 
Omg you guys!!! I totally almost had a heart attack! I literally choked on the peanuts I was eating while reading this article! GOOD ONE! you really had me going…I was so excited…until the Donald Trump part…hahaha…then I had to laugh at myself for actually believing anything that great could ever happen in that sick cult! But I will continue to dream it could happen!
Reply
 
 
 John Jarrett says:

 April 1, 2016 at 3:35 pm
 
As soon as I read the title of the article…”Governing Body Apologizes…” I knew it was a joke. The GB has NEVER and will never apologize for anything. They are too proud and full of themselves.
Reply
 
 
 Big B says:

 April 1, 2016 at 3:55 pm
 
Good article as always John,
You had me going until the Donald Trump part. These “changes” were so reasonable it was almost a dream come true. Unfortunately, I don’t believe I will live long enough to see any of the above come to fruition.
These hard headed morons (read “faithful and discrete slave”) are blood guilty for the medical deaths of thousands of adherents due to not only the blood transfusion issue but the organ transplant procedure which at one time was considered “cannibalism”. That’s been changed now (New Light strikes again!) but it was strictly enforced during my childhood back in the late 50’s and 60’s.
Thank’s for the refreshing April Fool’s take and the informative article which brightened up my day. To those who found this article offensive I say for God’s sake “lighten up”! Nobody reading this article believes that the W.B.T.S. is not guilty of mind controlling, zombie producing, doomsday fanaticism, and religious intolerance. However, its good to wish that they would change. So I will continue to wish/pray for change in one hand and defecate in the other and see which hand gets filled up first. :)
Reply
 
 Amy says:

 April 1, 2016 at 6:52 pm
 
They will never change their policies because doing so means they are admitting they were wrong and acknowledging their bloodguilt…that would mean expensive litigation. Who cares about people’s lives?!?! So disgusting.
Reply
 
 
 
 Miker Tower says:

 April 1, 2016 at 4:02 pm
 
Class A article…as usual.
 Thank you so much.
Miker
Reply
 
 
 danisa says:

 April 1, 2016 at 4:04 pm
 
desde el primer perdón emitido por jw supe que iba dirijido a recrear la simple salida que estos personajes tienen y que obviamente JAMAS elegirian
 disfrutaron de cada comité morbosamente que me hicieron preguntándome intimidades comunes de la vida sexual 4 hombres. Para mi es caso cerrado los dirigentes de la jw buscan hombres con características de represores y violadores son los hijos de un dios macabro
Reply
 
 GAMEISOVER says:

 April 3, 2016 at 1:23 am
 
What’s this? An automatic translation?
Reply
 
 ThePenthouseExperience says:

 April 3, 2016 at 6:50 pm
 
@Gameisover–you’re being a contemptibly obnoxious person; copy and paste the comment into Google Translator, if you want to know what is being said.
Reply
 
 GAMEISOVER says:

 April 5, 2016 at 7:19 am
 
Actually more than obnoxious I am ignorant. Never used google translator.
 I’m closer to 80 than anything else.
 Not my generation. Sorry.
 But thanks for the compliments. You and Cedars have had a field day.
 My cup runneth over…..
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 Mama Joy says:

 April 1, 2016 at 4:28 pm
 
Not a good April Fools joke! I was elated and nearly brought to tears that they are finally going to help victims of child abuse……. No such luck.
They want it this way. They would rather harbor, thereby, encourage child abuse, than upset a child molester.
Welcome all child molesters and rapists- you will have free reign to terrorize children within the JW Org!
Reply
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 1, 2016 at 4:50 pm
 
Mama Joy
Thanks for your comments. Child abuse is no joking matter, and the purpose of this article is to draw attention to ways in which the JW organization could alter its stance on abuse handling as well as child indoctrination and the blood policy. Some who read this will feel strong emotions on these issues, as you did, and the fact that Watchtower has not resolved these problems should further inspire people to speak out against these policies. Each time we draw attention to these problems we are one step closer to solving them
Sincerely
JR
Reply
 
 Mama Joy says:

 April 1, 2016 at 9:21 pm
 
One day justice will be served. The JWs show their “fruits” by choosing who to support. The victims or the perpetrators.
They will always be a cursed people. That is why God allows the Org to take their children away from them (through disfellowshipping, no blood, etc) They distance themselves from Christ (not partaking the body/blood, having no part of Christendom (Christ’s Kingdom)). They make the Org. their God (calling the Org the Truth instead of Jesus). They are a cursed people and always will be. That is why they allow pedophilia- it IS THEIR FRUITS!
The children that leave or are kicked out are blessed with freedom from this satanic cult.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Kathleen Conti says:

 April 1, 2016 at 5:18 pm
 
This article needs to be removed before one more WT child abuse victim reads it. Not funny, very hurtful.
Reply
 
 Katie says:

 April 1, 2016 at 5:54 pm
 
I was very upset by this article as well. I don’t think it should be removed, but should be rewritten so as not to play with our emotions.
I don’t know think the writer knows what it feels like to have been abused, or has had a friend refuse a blood transfusion and die… If he had, he would realize humour doesn’t work in this case.
To the writer, please stop making excuses for why the article is fine. That’s what the Governing Body does. They don’t apologize either.
Reply
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 1, 2016 at 6:23 pm
 
Dear Katie
I will be happy to amend the article as you suggested so that readers are not led to believe that the opening paragraphs are in fact true. I apologize for any offense caused, and I believe your request is reasonable. And yes, I have been personally affected by all of these issues, which is why I am working with other activists to put an end to the harmful policies of Watchtower
Sincerely
JR
Reply
 
 Chris says:

 April 2, 2016 at 2:37 am
 
Well, thank you John
I was about to say the same thing as Katie
Plus, until you do ammend it, you’re undermining your and this sites’ credibility, and harming the cause
The headline got me, the initial stress on it being written on 1st April tipped me off, not everyone would have got that
What about them?
Even if everyone did, that initial, or forever long a person was believing it, is enough to trigger PTSD and/or give a lot of people a cruel emotional
 roller coaster
I’m glad you finally apologised for that, because you were starting to sound like the gb
Though actions speak louder than words
Personally, I would save it, take it down immediately, amend it, then repost it
Reply
 
 
 
 David says:

 April 1, 2016 at 8:17 pm
 
I was upset too. But this article should be removed.
Reply
 
 
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 1, 2016 at 6:08 pm
 
Kathleen
It was not my intention to make light of victims of child abuse. As you know, we are also working hard behind the scenes to end the harmful policies which have hurt so many children as well as adults. I made it very clear right away that Watchtower is not changing its policies at this time, and made a plea to the Governing Body to consider how reasonable my arguments are as stated in the opening paragraphs. We are attempting to lead them to the right decision,to do the right thing.
The article is a rather short article, and I trust that those reading will read all the way to the conclusion and agree with my viewpoint. If not, remember it is just an opinion.
Sincerely
JR
Reply
 
 
 
 Jon S says:

 April 1, 2016 at 5:19 pm
 
You had me right up until the Trump line. Well done. Sorry for anyone offended by this. I thought it was brilliantly done. Point well made.
Reply
 
 
 NoviceLocs14 says:

 April 1, 2016 at 6:30 pm
 
He’s making the Watchtower great again lol!
Reply
 
 
 Tara says:

 April 1, 2016 at 6:51 pm
 
I did know as soon as I saw it that it could not be real. Right now I am thanking the God I believe in that my son is df’d because his baby girl is in hospital and has already had one blood transfusion with many more to follow. If he had been in the ‘truth’ we would no doubt have lost her by now. I am truly blessed right now that the Dr’s and nurses are fighting to save our precious girls life. No doubt I will be asked if they let her be transfused and I will tell them (elders, minions) to mind their own business. No doubt I will be spoken to for spending time, above and beyond, with my df’d son, they can sit and swivel. Cry freedom and let slip the dogs of war.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 April 1, 2016 at 6:56 pm
 
p.s yes I know it’s Havoc but for me crying freedom is bliss.
Reply
 
 Holly Chu says:

 April 2, 2016 at 5:20 pm
 
You go, girl. Family is first.
Reply
 
 Tara says:

 April 2, 2016 at 5:25 pm
 
Thank you Holly :) I believe in a God that would put children before doctrine.
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 John Walsh says:

 April 1, 2016 at 7:14 pm
 
John Redwood, you need to temper your jovial mood sometimes in light of your chosen subject.
 In other words before you make light of a range of subjects of a very serious nature, which have impacted many others in a very negative way, you need to make a serious minded judgement as to weather it is appropriate.
 I other wise find your contributions very good, but that give you no rights to be thoughtless at other times.
Reply
 
 J Mitchell says:

 April 1, 2016 at 10:39 pm
 
I have to agree with everyone else here. I eagerly await new articles from this website, but this really rubbed me the wrong way. This column is harmful to say the least. If I need a laugh, I know where to find it. Just imagine this being the first thing read from this website as a newly disfellowshipped person. It would push them away. Next April fools, maybe be a little more flamboyant and ridiculous with the joke? At least that way I won’t be sending quotes to my sister, asking if she’s heard anything about it. The relationship is already strained enough as is.
Reply
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 2, 2016 at 9:35 am
 
J Mitchell
I appreciate your criticism, however we do not believe the article is hurtful. That being said I have added a disclaimer at the beginning of the article so that anyone reading will know that the headlines are wishful thinking and not reality (not yet).
At JW Survey, we are not trying to be flamboyant or funny. There are traces of humour at times, but this is the exception. The only item which I felt was humorous was my comment about Trump being added to the Governing Body. JW Survey is not a satire site, but the opening paragraphs of the article are written as satire to make a very strong point – that the Governing Body could and should make these changes, but they don’t.
I am sad that you sent quotes to your sister without reading the article. This was certainly not my intention. I did everything possible to make people aware that this was an April 1st satire. I specifically added the date April 1st to the beginning of the article, which was the first clue. Second, I added the photo of Trump on the Governing Body, which was the only photo inside the article. I knew that anyone seeing this would know that it was certainly not true. Lastly, I made the article very short so that you could read the opening paragraphs, see the Trump photo, then immediately get to the point of the article. There was no intention to mislead, only to make a point and get to it quickly. I apologize if this did not work for you, and I have added a disclaimer at the beginning of the article to assure readers that the headlines are not real.
I hope one day we can end these dreadful policies and restore your relationship with your sister
Sincerely
JR
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Rachel Feiler says:

 April 1, 2016 at 7:18 pm
 
Yup, how ridiculously sad that the first part of your new post is just an April Fool’s joke, when it is exactly what the borg needs to do NOW! When the only reasonable, humane, moral course of action will never be taken by them. Jeeeeeeez
Reply
 
 
 Lost life says:

 April 1, 2016 at 8:08 pm
 
Uncool, dude. You made jest what happened to me and thousands of others. This site was so instrumental in my learning TTATT and I am forever grateful, but it is sinking into quasi-literate opinion fetishes and ill-considered satire. Lloyd, please bring the quality back. This was appalling.
Reply
 
 
 David says:

 April 1, 2016 at 8:15 pm
 
In view of the serious issues raised, this April Fools joke was not funny. I have supported just about everything, but this one was uncalled for.
Reply
 
 
 Fooledmeonce says:

 April 1, 2016 at 9:38 pm
 
If Trump took the job he’d fire all of the GB for incompetence. Then he’d build a wall around Warwick and keep all the JWs in.
 Voilá, the world is a better place and the problem is solved!
Reply
 
 
 Gary says:

 April 1, 2016 at 11:31 pm
 
The article is a bit like,
 A child who has gone missing and a person saying “hey here’s little Johny walking up the path, April fools!”
Reply
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 2, 2016 at 9:22 am
 
Gary
I respectfully disagree, but I hope we can understand each other’s point of view. I have had multiple people message me, many of them writers who have been personally victimized by child abuse, shunning as well as death of family members due to blood transfusion policy. They all agreed that the article was beneficial and made a strong point. However there are a few who became upset with the opening paragraphs – perhaps the false hope for those brief seconds was just too much to bear.
The reality is that most people got it- and some did not. I can’t fault those who did not get the point, or who believed what they were reading immediately without finishing the piece. It is not for me to analyze how people process information, but I will say that I am surprised that anyone would believe what I wrote so quickly, then immediately get upset when they got to the middle of the article. I did not think anyone would believe this, especially JW Survey readers who are very educated on matters of the JW organization and the Governing Body. Trust me when I tell you that if any of that information were true, Lloyd Evans would have an article and video up quicker than you can say Donald Trump.
I absolutely respect your viewpoint, but I disagree with the comparison to announcing that a lost little boy was found. You know the article went much deeper than that, and it included a plea to the Governing Body. We want people to understand how easy it would be for the GB to make sweeping changes that would end these horrible policies – so I wrote those changes myself and released them on April 1st. No harm was intended to any victims, and I hope you understand my point just as I understand yours
Sincerely
JR
Reply
 
 Fading Truth says:

 April 2, 2016 at 10:44 am
 
“I did not think anyone would believe this, especially JW Survey readers who are very educated on matters of the JW organization and the Governing Body.”
Many readers of JW Survey come here because they find – correction, found the content honest and ethical. JW’s are used to being manipulated emotionally by WT publications, but JW Survey had been refuge from that.
Why wouldn’t you expect your readers to believe you? Lloyd Evans has spent years building this site as one that could be trusted and respected in all aspects.
Now, we’re treated to a clickbait title and a cruel April’s fools joke of an article.
Regardless of whether no harm was intended, you continue to harm many with your dogged refusal to change the way the article was presented.
No one is disputing that the article contains important content or that the message needs to get out.
It’s the horribly manipulative way it was presented that everyone is at odds with.
Thankfully, there are other writers who contribute to this site, and I sincerely hope none write anything as wreckless and insensitive in the future.
Reply
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 2, 2016 at 11:09 am
 
Fading Truth
Two matters of correction – first, everyone is not at odds with the article. There will always be those who disagree with an article or the way it was presented. But the positive feedback I have received here and privately has been very encouraging. Hence it is not even close to accurate to say that everyone is “at odds” with this piece. Generally speaking, negative comments reflect a tiny minority of those who object, whereas the thousands of readers who enjoyed the piece often see no need to comment since they were not upset in any way.
Either way, we will not silence the voices of those who object as long as they do so respectfully according to the guidelines for the site. Criticism is accepted. Feel free to appeal to Lloyd Evans. He understood and shared the article, as did many others.
Secondly, I apologized to any who were offended, knowing that a few just did not understand the nature and point of the article. Furthermore, I immediately changed the article to include a disclaimer at the very beginning which explains that the headlines are not a reality. Please read for yourself, and thank you for your comments
JR
Reply
 
 
 
 Gary says:

 April 2, 2016 at 11:02 am
 
If I had a £ for every time I put my foot in it I’d be richer Donald Trump!
 No problems John, we (all) will win this fight
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Alicja says:

 April 2, 2016 at 12:05 am
 
From all the reactions &comments so far it just goes to show how deep & hurtful & cruel the Watchtower organisation has emotionally & physically affected the lives past,present & future.
 We would all like to see the above article by John Redwood to become a reality.
 Sometimes satire will touch very deep emotions & can make people be even more determined to see justice done .
 I have been affected by the issues mentioned & when written like John Redwood has done makes me realise the stupidity & crassness & yes wickedness of these 7 men who at the stroke of a pen can make policies that wreck so many people’s lives & then quite easily revert those policies with another stroke of a pen go back to the original policy like with organ transplants .
 Madness to the extreme.
Reply
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 2, 2016 at 9:08 am
 
Thanks Alicja!
I appreciate that you really got the point of this article. As you say, with one stroke of the pen, the Governing Body can destroy lives, as it did for example in Malawi. Anyone reading the article should know that these are not joking matters, and that we are working daily to Make the April 1st headline a real headline year-round. Cheers
JR
Reply
 
 Alicja says:

 April 2, 2016 at 11:31 am
 
JR. Thank you for your comment. & you have a hard task being an author of a website especially one like this with so many logging on who have been damaged badly by the JW organisation . It’s not easy because so many hundreds of thousands , maybe millions have been separated from loving families But sometimes controversial subjects will provide the most hurt responses because of the tremendous pain suffered.
 I am sure we are all on the same side. Please let’s all stay united in our fight against this organisation which is the real cause of our unhappiness.
 Take care all of you .
Reply
 
 
 ronnyb says:

 April 3, 2016 at 6:13 am
 
John,way back in the 40’s there was a radio program that featured Orson Wells ,”War of the Worlds”. The program started like this, ” Flash,we interrupt this program for an emergency bulletin…Martians have landed on Earth and an invasion is imminent!!!” Well no one knew it was a new program and the histeria caused major panic in some cities. Not that your joke caused this kind of histeria, but people thought the WT had come to its senses after all these years, after all the hurt only to find out it wasnt true. You can say to people ” dont be offended” but you cannot say to people ,” do not feel hurt” emotional pain cannot be controlled, and thats what happened here, some people who relived their heartbreaks and felt some vindication,only to find out it was just a mirage in a vast desert. Please understand their point of view and their hurt. Thankyou.
Reply
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 3, 2016 at 8:37 am
 
Dear Ronnyb
I understand the hurt of those affected by all of the issues which I covered. In fact this is why I draw attention to them. For those offended, I apologized for causing any hurt feelings, and even added a disclaimer at the beginning of the article.
By the way, I am quite familiar with War of the Worlds; as a child I owned a cassette tape of this program and played it many times. I remember the limited hysteria which was caused. However, remember this – the hysteria was localized to those persons listening in to what nearly everyone knew was an entertainment broadcast. The hysteria was not caused by the program, but by the naive persons who over-reacted to that which was an obvious spoof on the news. Some of these people tuned in during the middle of the program and didn’t think twice about questioning whether the program was real or entertainment. These people could have easily dialed to a different station and realized that there was no news coverage of any Martian invasion whatsoever. The hysteria was completely blown out of proportion by individuals who seemed out of touch with the difference between real news and entertainment and satire.
The same thing happened with my article – several persons over-reacted when they read the title and the first few paragraphs, without understanding the point, and without comprehending that this type of news would have broken simultaneously around the web, around the world, if it had been true. Articles would have dominated the news headlines, not only on every ex-JW site, but even the major news outlets across the globe would have covered this story.
Just as with War of the Worlds, my headlines sounded almost believable. And that is my point- the Governing Body has the power to write these headlines and effect these changes, but they don’t. And if a few paragraphs of hope and inspiration were dashed to pieces by the harsh reality of the truth, this cold splash of water to the face might be enough to get someone off the couch and attempt to make a difference.
Think about this – apparently some of those offended are admitting that they believed the opening paragraphs, even if for but a few moments, but were bitterly disappointed when they found that this was satire. This may on the surface feel painful to these individuals, but they also need to understand that the changes they desire will NOT happen under present circumstances, and that they should direct their anger, not to JW Survey, but to the organization responsible for the atrocities. We encourage those victims to direct their efforts in support of activism, against the common cause of all of these issues, and to work with JW Survey to end the destructive policies which were the subject of this article. We will make the mirage a reality
JR
Reply
 
 
 
 
 
 GEM says:

 April 2, 2016 at 12:53 am
 
I have to say this article just opened the wound that many felt was healing.
Bad move. The Editorial team needs to start Triage immediately!
Reply
 
 
 Bad Penny says:

 April 2, 2016 at 3:13 am
 
John Redwood –
You had me there, I thought this was too good to be true. A big Aargh went out when I discovered it was not real! I too read it a day late!
 Donald Trump on the GB is not too far fetched when you consider the Freemasonry link. (Has anyone else noticed the hand gestures and poses of the GB? They are being more careful about their rings and tie pins lately, but I’m sure they are part of that other secret society and always have been from the days of Russell).
 Anyway John, I think the article was hard hitting as well as a little humorous. God knows we all need to lighten up a bit these days. Unfortunately, the Watchtower removed the chuckle muscle from most of us and it can be very hard to get it back when abuses have been carried out.
 Keep up the good work. We are little fishes in a very big pond trying to bring to book these wicked men.
Reply
 
 
 Twmack says:

 April 2, 2016 at 3:23 am
 
I even believed the Trump part, knowing that nothing is
 beneath them and most of the R & F will accept almost
 anything. They only have to pull the the “New Light”
nonsense and claim its in the interest of the ” World wide
 work” and the sheep will go cockadoodledoo.
Reply
 
 
 Twmack says:

 April 2, 2016 at 3:23 am
 
I even believed the Trump part, knowing that nothing is
 beneath them and most of the R & F will accept almost
 anything. They only have to pull the the “New Light”
nonsense and claim its in the interest of the ” World wide
 work” and the sheep will go cockadoodledoo.
Reply
 
 
 William Draper says:

 April 2, 2016 at 5:55 am
 
William Draper … Very interesting , insightful , but maybe not best on April 1st , that I personally would agree with some of the others , it was convincing because of its reason , so I can see how some that take this forum very seriously , may find this a little bit off key …….. for me I prefer to refrain from things like April Fools Joke Day , but I would suggest not to take the criticism to hard .
Reply
 
 
 ruthlee says:

 April 2, 2016 at 6:28 am
 
Dear Mr Redwood oh dear! a can of worms and a bit off colour. Its okay to make april fools of us in recovery. But what is sad was that split second when YOU gave us hope. That moment of wow could this really be true. When we got to Trumpy or as I call him the last Trump before that hair gets raptured, and started to laugh it did take me down another thoughtline. We know the gb’s minions read all these sites and make notes because they are nasty snitches and vindictive by nature. You Mr Redwood played right into their hands for several reasons. Firstly it has divided us, some hated the article and some loved it causing a squabble amongst us in recovery. (that will get the spies hand clapping in glee) The other point I want to make is such false hope gave some genuine pain as they were being duped which in turn would give the GB genuine pleasure as it feeds into to their sadistic and narcissistic natures, So I agree your sentiment was bona fida but the resulting reaction and response was not anticipated . I think you did not really think this through enough. It played into the nasty hands of witnesses who really like to see people in pain, so don’t do that again as you are helping their cause not ours. Thanks for listening and I hope you don’t mind me saying such things regards Ruthlee
Reply
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 2, 2016 at 10:54 am
 
Ruthlee
Thanks for your comments, which are always welcome here. The one thing which I did not think through was the idea that educated JW Survey readers would not immediately know satire when they see it, especially on April 1st. This surprised me. Perhaps the manner in which I wrote the article sounded very believable, as if the words might actually be coming from the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I was in the organization for many years, so I wrote from the perspective of how they might re-write their policies if by some miracle they ever did change them.
As for playing into their hands and dividing ex-jws, I honestly believe you are giving the organization more credit than they deserve. I think most of those in power in the organization are deluded and believe they are doing the right thing, and that most of them do not care what “apostates” have to say about them. I personally don’t believe that most Witnesses want to see people in pain, but I do agree that there are some who are “nasty” as you say and are sadistically attracted to the downfall of ex-jws and all other “worldly” people which the organization teaches will be destroyed at Armageddon. Not very compassionate is it? Thanks again
JR
Reply
 
 ruthlee says:

 April 4, 2016 at 12:11 pm
 
thanks John for your reply to my reaction and all the others. On reflection you actually have written probably the most thought provoking article up to date, because everyone has had a reaction to this. It really tapped into the psyche and elicited a response. Good , bad or indifferent. What is shows to me that once we wake up from cult thinking there is no going back. You actually shook some of us out of the dead zone. It is one thing fading but another thing standing up and being counted. To be hoodwinked even for a split second that the gb would humble themselves and retract the nonsense , would send some of us back straight into their loving arms and that vicelike grip. So to satire such subjects in the way you did actually had a good effect in that it gave me a reality check. In the future we may look at this particular article as a defining moment in the waking up process. Especially if they did have a huge policy change because we will accredit it to you and this article as you printed it first and they copied you! (no I know that won’t happen). So thank you for this article don’t remove it and keep up the good work cheers Ruthlee
Reply
 
 
 
 
 SIRIUS says:

 April 2, 2016 at 6:28 am
 
@John Redwood
Well crafted article, it read believable till it didn’t. John, you have a gift! Sometimes we all need to step back and smell the roses when life is rushing by. Being too focused can and does cloud one’s judgement. Humor can help relieve stress. I admire your sensitivity to others. Also, this forum provides an excellent group talk, much of it on target and in tolerance guided by a steady hand.
On a personal note I am not a JW or will I ever be one. More of an outsider watching the calamity brought on WT and GB. Why my interest? In short, I ran into a JW Elder while walking the dog. Some, year & half of home visits, exchanging literally 100s of texts and emails in trying to prove “the truth”. Simply an epic failure in salesmanship by the Elder or knowing what I know better? As a point of interest we spent time reviewing changes to the 2013 version versus the 1984 NWT. I’m still flabbergasted that an apostate had a derogatory label of “mentally diseased” then suddenly toned down to “obsessed” with a new and improved version. Since there are multiple versions of the NWT can a JW be just as true living only in the 1984 version? I had to jab the Elder if new light in the next multiple revision(s) of NWT would be conservative versus promoted as progressive currently. We had mutual respect for each other but seriously it was a clash of cultures, an unconvincing one at that! He tried to prove JWs are more happy lot than others till divorce rates where brought up. Those pesky stats! It all stopped now except for the occasional disaster headline with link from him. I had fun with the 1914 paranoia too. I’ve only skimmed over a tiny fraction of the highlights, don’t want to tip my cards to the Elder that might be watching!
Great site Cedar and looking forward to your book.
IMHO
dogstar
Reply
 
 
 Justin says:

 April 2, 2016 at 7:38 am
 
Great article, JR. Don’t listen to those spewing vitriol. In my opinion, your article has an outstanding “hook” and makes people want to read it. (1) It draws attention to these very real problems currently in this cult and that is, i think, the entire point. (2) I can imagine some active or passive JW’s being suckered into reading this post and then unknowingly coming away with the Truth about the Truth. These two points are valid enough to prove success in the writing and posting of this article.
I knew, and hopefully other folks with any past experience in the JW Cult knew as well, that the title was a joke. Considering the day it was posted and the fact that the GB has NEVER issued an apology of any kind and in any form during their past 125+ year history.
Again, good job and keep up the great work.
Reply
 
 GEM says:

 April 2, 2016 at 7:59 am
 
Justin: No vitriol here.
I just think, that given the now very wide audience, this article was a bit like feeding Port Pate to a recovering Alcoholic.
If you have ever met an AA fighter you will get the point!
The Satire is better placed after the Victory… not whilst so many are yearning for the Revolution.
Reply
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 2, 2016 at 10:09 am
 
Gem
Thanks for your comments. In your illustration, you suggest that the article was ” a bit like feeding Port Pate to a recovering Alcoholic”. I disagree with this comparison because in your analogy, Port Pate is the article, meaning that you feel a destructive substance is being fed to someone suffering from a disease. But this is not the case – I presented a solution to the disease, both in the opening headlines, and in the closing arguments. Both the opening and closing sections of the article present a SOLUTION to the disease, not the problem. The first solution is the one which the Governing Body SHOULD announce, but does not. The second solution contains the logic which the organization ought to use to end their invasive and dangerous policies.
Hence, we are not feeding “Port Pate” to an Alcoholic. If we were, we would be advocating dangerous life altering policies such as are promoted by the Governing Body. Our solutions are alcohol-free, as it were.
As for the satire being placed AFTER the victory – well if we obtain a victory, there will no longer be a need for the satire.
Sincerely
JR
Reply
 
 GEM says:

 April 2, 2016 at 10:16 am
 
I guess it is a matter of fortitude of mind… having lost a close member of the family in the early hours of this morning… and seen the effect of Port Pate on a recovering Alcoholic…perhaps it is not the best time for satire of this nature…for me.
I cede place to the more cynical minds amongst us.
Best wishes
Reply
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 2, 2016 at 11:30 am
 
Dear Gem
Please accept my deepest sympathies for your loss. This kind of tragedy trumps all other matters, and my thoughts are with you at this time.
Sincerely,
 JR

 
 
 Tara says:

 April 2, 2016 at 5:32 pm
 
Dear Gem, so sorry for your loss xxx

 
 
 
 
 
 
 Doc Obvious says:

 April 2, 2016 at 10:34 am
 
John made some real good points. Unfortunately, some people took it the wrong way. John did apologize to those affected adversely. This web site is a serious web site and visitors were caught off guard. John has created very insightful articles in the past and John made a mistake. At least John is open and apologizes for his indiscretion. You can’t say that for Watchtower. When was the last time they apologized? Let’s move on and continue to spread TTATT.
Reply
 
 
 Eyes opened says:

 April 2, 2016 at 11:08 am
 
Hi John,
This article is certainly a credit to your talent as a journalist. This is evident by the many and varied strong emotional responses you have elicited.
Your humility in addressing the need for a qualifying opening statement and offering the apology is commendable and appreciated.
As a writer your hands should not be tied. Words are too powerful. Used to the best advantage we the readers with feel encouraged, strengthened, even fired up in a good way. So many are hurting and in pain, may your talents be a part of the healing.
Looking forward to more of your articles.
Regards
Reply
 
 
 Cedars says:

 April 2, 2016 at 12:02 pm
 
I can’t help but feel saddened, not by this article, but by some of the comments it has elicited. Yes, we are all entitled to an opinion, and I think John has been very gracious in fielding opinions far more diplomatically than I would have. My only criticism is that a disclaimer was added that says what should be self-evident – that this article is satire having been published on April 1st.
I have read and re-read the article, and see no disrespect to survivors of child sex abuse. What I see is a brilliant piece of writing that skilfully uses humor to shame Watchtower by showing how easily they could rectify their damaging policies if they had the slightest concern for the welfare of children. The fact that they jump through hoops to avoid urgent reforms is indeed a joke, and this article highlights the joke in a dignified, poignant way.
If all this isn’t glaringly obvious to someone, I can only imagine it is because they are itching to find offence, or perhaps because they haven’t given the article sufficient thought before pulling the “I’m offended” trigger.
Cults like Watchtower deserve to be mocked and ridiculed, and comedy is an invaluable tool in laying bare how despicable Watchtower’s policies are. In fact, it is a tool that is not wielded enough in my opinion, and judging from some of these responses I am beginning to understand why this is. Perhaps a sense of humor is a rarer commodity among cult survivors than we might expect.
And one final point (and I will try to be civil as possible) – words of anger against this article carry far more weight when they come from those who have taken the opportunity to praise this website elsewhere, especially in its relentless efforts to raise awareness of child abuse in recent times. I cannot help but raise an eyebrow when I see scathing comments from people who have neither commented favorably about my recent 90-minute child abuse film, or lifted a finger to help promote it, despite being personally affected by the issues raised therein.
That’s just my two cents. You are all free to flame me for giving John the support he deserves, but given how much I’ve been flamed recently on the most trivial of issues you can imagine, I’m starting to lose any reticence over whether I offend people. Offending people seems inevitable whether I try or not.
Reply
 
 Franki Elliott says:

 April 2, 2016 at 4:54 pm
 
Well said.
Reply
 
 
 Holly Chu says:

 April 2, 2016 at 5:58 pm
 
And I am not angry Lloyd. It IS a brilliant piece of writing usual. And I so see your point of not supporting your article and video on child abuse, and then having words of anger against this article. I will absolutely spend time looking into that. But while the WT deserves mockery and ridicule, in my humble opinion, that doesn’t serve our collective cause as well as just pure information and fact collecting, and then revealing! You have done a most incredible feat in your investigative journalism and I thank you for all you have done
Reply
 
 
 Sval says:

 April 3, 2016 at 6:40 am
 
I agree,well said. I have to say I’m shocked at the response of some of the readers. I’m new to JWsurvey and I believe this article is in the top 2 of my favorites thus far. I’ll admit the writer had me at first, but after reading the entire article it did make you think how a couple of SIMPLE changes would positively effect the lives of millions. This is coming from an ex witness whose family has personally been effected by shunning, suicide and child abuse at the hands of the WT.
Reply
 
 
 

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← Extra leak: Personal Qualifications Report (or snitching form) now available
 
The Friday Column: Governing Body Issues Apology to Abuse Victims, Announces Radical Policy Changes
avatar 
Posted on April 1, 2016
 
NOTE TO JW SURVEY READERS: THE FOLLOWING ARTICLE,  RELEASED ON APRIL 1ST, IS INTENDED TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THE POLICIES OF THE WATCHTOWER ORGANIZATION ARE HARMFUL AND IN MANY CASES DEADLY. IT IS OUR DESIRE THAT THE HEADLINES BELOW DEALING WITH ABUSE, INDOCTRINATION, AND BLOOD POLICY WILL ONE DAY BECOME A REALITY
April 1st 2016
Breaking News
In an unexpected turn of events, the Watchtower Organization has issued an apology to victims of child abuse who were denied justice over the past 50 years, and has authorized congregation elders, ministerial servants, and individual members to contact child protection authorities and law enforcement immediately upon learning of any accusations of abuse to a minor child.
In a letter to elders, the Governing Body has agreed to rescind  its infamous “Two Witness Rule”, but only for cases involving children who have come forward about abuse which took place while they were minors. The 7-member panel cited suggestions from the Australian Royal Commission and other child protection experts as the basis upon which the policy changes were made, stating that these alterations do not conflict with their Christian beliefs and principles.
In related policy changes, the organization has announced that it will no longer require minor children to submit to the extensive Jehovah’s Witness baptismal procedure, which includes a grueling 80-question vetting process performed by 3 different elders. Children will still be allowed to be baptized, but without  the 80 questions, and without being publicly required to answer yes to the following question:
“Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization?”
The net result will be that children may still follow the religion of their parents, but without the severe consequences of disfellowshipping and  shunning if  they become adults and choose to exercise their right to change their beliefs.
Attached to the new Governing Body directive is the revised blood transfusion policy, which states:

“The Governing Body has concluded that while we still believe blood to be the sacred embodiment of life, it will be up to each Christian to decide whether to accept a blood transfusion when deemed necessary. Significant advancements in science, along with the understanding that Jehovah’s command to the Israelites and early Christians applied to the original Law Covenant, has revealed to us  that transfusions are a personal medical decision. We trust that all of Jehovah’s people will respond positively to our increased understanding of the scriptures.”
In addition to these major changes, the Governing Body has announced that it has added one member to its executive leadership counsel, presidential candidate and New York billionaire Donald Trump.
 
governing body trump
Donald Trump joins the elite Jehovah’s Witness Governing Body
 
 
OK, by now you realize that it is April 1st, and none of the information above is true.
To the outside world, such changes in policy would seem to be a very reasonable compromise, particularly in light of increasing media scrutiny of the caustic practices of Jehovah’s Witness leadership. Throughout the world, tens of thousands have lost their lives in hospitals, where trained Witness elders swarm to the side of patients in need of blood, preventing doctors from doing the one thing they are trained to do: save lives.
Children are subjected to years of propaganda in the form of books, videos, and peer pressure from fellow Witness companions, who are themselves victims of this process. Before they reach puberty, they are dragged into the public eye every weekend and forced to knock on doors instead of going to soccer, football or baseball practice. Relentless conditioning batters their desire to excel in academics or sports, leaving no alternative path but the one which results in a water baptism. Once baptized, there is no turning back. A child who recognizes later that he or she has made a mistake has no recourse – if he chooses to leave, he will be abandoned by every friend he has ever known, and every family member including his parents.
For those young ones who were touched, abused, neglected, or beaten by adults inside the organization, there is no due process. Criminal offenses such as these are treated as “sin” first, and must be reported to elders, rather than legal authorities who are trained to intervene and protect such children. Only when forcibly compelled to contact police will Witness elders comply with the law, and only then after contacting the legal department of the Watch Tower Society.
 
What is the solution?
If you are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, perhaps even a member of the New York headquarters staff, give some thought to the opening paragraphs of this article and ask yourself whether such changes are unreasonable.
If God is the giver and preserver of life, would he really oppose the transfusion of blood? Would he allow a Witness to die, when membership and preaching is considered so critical in these turbulent times? God has apparently already given permission to Witnesses to accept blood fractions, which are derived from whole blood. Do you really believe the Almighty looks with favor on parents who fight the transfusion which would save a baby’s life?
On the matter of child baptism, do you truly believe it is just and righteous to place the heavy burden of baptism on a child, considering the fact that every teen or preteen is so easily influenced by his peers and parents? Why not permit a child to leave the organization, instead of holding his family and friends as hostages should he decide to take a different pathway? While you may believe that his course will result is his drift from God, do you really have the right to penalize him for his free will?
And finally, when it comes to justice for those abused, would it violate God’s law to report cases of abuse to the police and child protection authorities? Would this not benefit others, including non-Jehovah’s Witnesses who may have been victimized by the same perpetrator? Certainly there is nothing unscriptural about protecting children and allowing qualified secular authorities to handle the matter.
Consider this a sincere appeal to the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses to strike down the influential policies which have redirected and stolen the lives of millions over the past century, all in the name of loyalty to God and one organization. Remember, the JW religion claims to be a volunteer faith. By definition, this means one can enter and leave at will. But this is not the case. Joining comes at great cost, and leaving is even more expensive. Let these people go; release them from medical suicide, release them from child indoctrination, release them from abuse. As Moses said to Pharaoh:
Let my people go.
 
John Redwood
 
 
 
 
 


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← Extra leak: Personal Qualifications Report (or snitching form) now available
 
166 Responses to The Friday Column: Governing Body Issues Apology to Abuse Victims, Announces Radical Policy Changes

← Older Comments
 
 Covert Fade says:

 April 2, 2016 at 12:49 pm
 
Hi guys, Covert Fade here.
As the editor, I fully support John’s article. Satire is a powerful tool, and humour can sometimes expose truths far more effectively than regular reporting can. Anyone familiar with the history of using art and humour to highlight injustice and drive social change will be aware of this.
I believe that this article follows this noble tradition of legitimate satire. I see nothing offensive in it. If some people have been offended, well, it was not our intent to do so, but were we to second and third-guess every article we write on the grounds that someone may take offence, we would never publish anything.
Additionally, the artwork of the article and the timing of the publication were a clear signal to all readers that this was intended to be taken from the start as a satirical piece.
I would also point out that we at JW Survey have been and continue to be affected by the harmful policies of Watchtower in ways that have not always been made public.
We choose to fight back with every legitimate and ethical tool at our disposal, including humour and satire.
To finish, I would like to say that we value all our readership, and do not set out to deliberately upset or offend. However, this article will stay on the site, and I would encourage any who were offended to consider this article in the larger context of addressing serious and painful societal problems through the use of humour and satire.
Reply
 
 Franki Elliott says:

 April 2, 2016 at 4:56 pm
 
Also well said.
Reply
 
 GEM says:

 April 3, 2016 at 2:33 am
 
Covert Fade: Satire is a matter of timing..I think that is what has taken the breath from some dedicated readers. Here is a joke for you and others. I would like make the point with black humour:
Why did Hitler commit suicide in ’45?…
because, he couldn’t pay the gas bill!
Is that appropriate?
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 April 3, 2016 at 3:18 am
 
GEM – Your Hitler joke suggests that the deaths of jews in gas chambers was an inconvenience due to the utility costs.
John Redwood’s joke was that Watchtower could easily bring an end to the suffering of countless children if it wanted to.
I would thank you not to exacerbate the situation with false comparisons. Please keep your contribution to this website meaningful and productive.
Reply
 
 GEM says:

 April 3, 2016 at 5:12 am
 
I am trying to be meaningful and productive, Cedars.
I deliberately offered the Hitler joke for the same reason. If anything the joke is cynical, for a selective audience. but totally inappropriate for the eyes and ears of those injured by such an horrific event.
Likewise my heart lifted when I read the first part of this article…before the disclaimer was added…and, I would hope that the content of John’s satire reaches the hearts of the WT leadership. If it gets through to them that they are showing a total lack of humanity, and a great number of their people are hurting.. then the Satire will work.
All the best. Thank you for the freedom of self expression.

 
 
 
 Covert Fade says:

 April 3, 2016 at 4:33 am
 
Humour is subjective, GEM.
Many people found this article effective and valuable.
 A few people did not think the humour worked.
 That’s life.
 Should the majority be deprived of the article because a few did not find it to their taste? Or should rather that minority understand that they can simply choose not to read an article that is not to their taste in humour?
Reply
 
 GEM says:

 April 3, 2016 at 5:19 am
 
Each person has his/her own opinion. When I first read the article my heart filled with hope…for the end of WT imposed suffering. Yes, as I explained to John earlier, it lifted me beyond the loss I have had over the past 24 hours.
I am not aware that I have objected to the article…just the timing of the spoof report and the freshness of the wounds many newcomers to this EXCELLENT site might feel.
All the very best.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 2, 2016 at 1:49 pm
 
John Redwood,
A suggestion:
 Maybe you should switch the article around – put the last part first and the first part last………the problem seems to be that that the last part of the article is not being read.
Reply
 
 Covert Fade says:

 April 2, 2016 at 2:19 pm
 
Hi dee2 :)
Thanks for the suggestion, we appreciate it but the problem is that if people cannot be bothered to read the whole article in context then that really isn’t something we can do much about. That’s an issue the reader has to address.
We have already added a disclaimer at the top of the piece that informs the reader that this article it is a piece of April Fool’s themed satire, which essentially performs the same function as swapping the paragraphs.
I feel that ultimately the problem is that some people feel that satirical humour is an inappropriate tool to use to address Watchtower’s failings. I disagree, especially given how satire has been used to pointedly and effectively address issues as dark and painful as genocide and racial apartheid, and provoke meaningful change by doing so.
Reply
 
 
 
 Michele says:

 April 2, 2016 at 3:08 pm
 
I truly enjoyed this article. It was cleverly written. When I started reading this, I tried to call my mom so I could read it to her, then I got to the April Fool’s Joke part and realized that I had been HAD! Too funny. Glad my mom ignored me as usual! She would have had me before her elders explaining myself! Too funny!
Reply
 
 
 Holly Chu says:

 April 2, 2016 at 5:28 pm
 
I was taken aback by the whole April Fool theme. Great writing , but such dashing of hopes in an instant of those so hurt by the horrid policies of the GB. To me, not something to joke about.
Reply
 
 
 AussieneedingComfort says:

 April 2, 2016 at 6:00 pm
 
Interesting read, all these comments about this article. I knew as soon as I read the words “Governing Body Apologizes” that this HAD to be an April Fools story. I feel saddened by all the upset ones here…I too have had multiple bad experiences thru my 45 years as a JW. But I must agree with Cedars and Cover Fade, that because of the harsh and unrelenting leadership we have all had to groan under, humor is severely lacking in all aspects of JW life. You are told you are “happy” and told you are “joyful” when in fact, you are NOT. Don’t attack Cedars or Covert Fade, just because reading this article brings home how depressed, miserable and unhappy you have been all those years inside the JW empire. Yes, all of us, myself included have family still in and it is extremely difficult, but it is the policies and dictations of the WT that caused this and you can direct your anger at them 100%. Personally, I enjoyed the satire immensely and had a great laugh at the idea of Trump getting a spot on the GB. Keep up the good writing and lets all have a good laugh together.
Reply
 
 
 Fooledmeonce says:

 April 2, 2016 at 6:08 pm
 
I was fooled by this article too but I was actually sad (before I realized it was a joke) because I thought, “Oh no, the Society is becoming logical and reasonable!!!”
It’s painful for EVERYONE who has ever been a Jehovah’s Witness. We all have suffered in different ways and we were all scammed out of our time and money. Those Governing Body-idiots took our choices and opportunities if not much more.
This organization is falling apart before our eyes. Don’t be easily offended when people make fun of it.
Reply
 
 
 Gary says:

 April 2, 2016 at 6:15 pm
 
John, there’s very few who can discipline me. You didn’t offend me. I offended me. Yeap I’ve had a couple of beers. It can be a morbid fear when you love a child. Man I love the Old Testament!, simple. . Death.
 Nethertheless thank you and I accept that as needed recovery and discipline. Don’t get mushy.
 Wow you’ve took some sh one t today.
Reply
 
 
 Enuffsenuff says:

 April 2, 2016 at 9:21 pm
 
Those in power who are oppressive always hate laughter directed at them. Since fear has become rampant in KH’s and elders are little kings then satire and jokes break that oppression eventually, take for example the following
Q: How does every JW joke start? A: By looking over your shoulder.
 Q: Whats the difference between a smart GB member and a unicorn? A: Nothing, they’re both fictional characters
 Q: What’s meant by an exchange opinions between JW rank and file and a Judicial committee? A: It’s when we come to a Judicial committee meeting with our own opinion, and leave with the committee’s.
 Q: What is a JW? A: The Catholic’s say it’s someone on the longest and most painful of the roads to nowhere.
 Q: What do you call a gassy Russian JW? A: Vladimir Tootin
 Q: Did you hear about the winner of the JW beauty contest? A: Me neither.
Little Boy: What will JW’s be like when perfected?
His Father: Everyone will have what he needs.
Little Boy: But what if there is a shortage of meat and people are hungry?
His Father: There will be an announcement on JW.Org.TV saying, “No one needs meat today.”
I don’t think that the “Friday Column” article is that offensive, it is what it is, mild satire like the jokes above. But does satire work?
Seemed to work very well in East Germany in 1989
I tweaked the jokes above, to make a point (read the real ones below), sometimes short one liners make a real point as does satire in all its forms.
 George Orwell is oft quoted in these pages. His book was a dystopian satire on totalitarianism e.g.
Short Russia Jokes Q: How does every Russian joke start? A: By looking over your shoulder. Q: Whats the difference between a smart Russian and a unicorn? A: Nothing, they’re both fictional characters Q: What’s meant by an exchange opinions in the Communist party of the Soviet Union? A: It’s when I come to a party meeting with my own opinion, and I leave with the party’s. Q: What do you call a Russian with Tourette’s Syndrome? A: Yukanol Fukov. Q: What is 150 yards long and eats potatoes? A: A Moscow queue waiting to buy meat. Q: What occupies the last 6 pages of the Lada User’s Manual? A: The bus and train timetables. Q: What is Communism? A: The Poles say it’s the longest and most painful of the roads to capitalism. Q: What do you call a gassy russian? A: Vladimir Tootin Q: What is the fastest country in the world? A: Russia
source: http://jokes4us.com/miscellaneousjokes/worldjokes/russiajokes.html
Short Russia Jokes
 Q: How does every Russian joke start? A: By looking over your shoulder.
 Q: Whats the difference between a smart Russian and a unicorn? A: Nothing, they’re both fictional characters
 Q: What’s meant by an exchange opinions in the Communist party of the Soviet Union? A: It’s when I come to a party meeting with my own opinion, and I leave with the party’s.
 Q: What do you call a Russian with Tourette’s Syndrome? A: Yukanol Fukov.
 Q: What is 150 yards long and eats potatoes?
 A: A Moscow queue waiting to buy meat.
 Q: What occupies the last 6 pages of the Lada User’s Manual?
 A: The bus and train timetables. Q: What is Communism?
 A: The Poles say it’s the longest and most painful of the roads to capitalism.
 Q: What do you call a gassy russian?
 A: Vladimir Tootin
 Q: What is the fastest country in the world? A: Russia
source: http://jokes4us.com/miscellaneousjokes/worldjokes/russiajokes.html
Reply
 
 
 Chris says:

 April 3, 2016 at 3:44 am
 
Still not listening to what people are saying to you…
The warning needed to go before the headline
I’ll never come back to this site ,or the YouTube channel
Reply
 
 Cedars says:

 April 3, 2016 at 3:57 am
 
Everyone must bow to your will, or there will be consequences. Where have I heard that rhetoric before?
Reply
 
 
 Covert Fade says:

 April 3, 2016 at 4:31 am
 
That’s your choice Chris, but I think you’ll find that issuing ultimatums to websites because they disagree with you over the writing of one specific article is not the most productive use of your time.
Reply
 
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 3, 2016 at 9:16 am
 
Chris – you are free to do as you wish, and we wish you well. The beauty of freedom is that you are allowed to view this site, or not view this site. Additionally we allow you to comment respectfully, and we do not block your comments. That said, feel free to be specific about your concerns instead of making the vague statement ” Still not listening to what people are saying to you…”
If you bothered to read all of the comments you will recognize that I added the disclaimer to the article the SAME DAY I ran the article. While it was not necessary, I did it out of respect for those who took offense to the satire or did not understand it.
Perhaps you did not know this. Either way, we wish you all the best
JR
Reply
 
 
 
 Eyes opened says:

 April 3, 2016 at 6:39 am
 
FYI Cedars your video on child abuse was incredibly well done. Professional, informative and undeniable. Thank you.
Regards
Reply
 
 
 home but hiding are my favorite people says:

 April 3, 2016 at 7:20 am
 
Being an awakened put still Practicing JW, I often forget about April Fools day, allowing myself to be “fooled” occasionally. When I read this article It didn’t even clicked that it was an April Fools joke. I let myself believe the words written , I was so excited, I was so sad when I finally realized I had been fooled. How I hope one day tho that this Article becomes the truth! I check this website daily for new articles. I hope that one day I can build up the courage to leave this crazy religion that I was born into, I force myself to stay because I love my wife very much and we have a very young family and I know she would want to leave me. So sad what this religion does to families
Keep up the good work jwsurvey!!
Reply
 
 Sval says:

 April 3, 2016 at 7:43 am
 
My heart breaks for you. I faded first then my husband finally saw the light, however my son and his family are in it, so we have to be very careful what we say or we’ll be labeled “apostate” and you know what that means. So be very careful. Hopefully your wife will come around.
Reply
 
 Anne Nonemouse says:

 April 3, 2016 at 11:49 am
 
!My family situation is much the same….one person holding the rest hostage, with us all bending to suit the one, to have access to the rest. We live in hope that one day, this one person will wake up, and realize how much they are truly loved by the ‘bad’ people they now hold at arms length, but tolerate if we remain non vocal. Until then, we love them and give more than we should, painting a contrast between the JW lifestyle and a real one!
Reply
 
 
 
 Anne Nonemouse says:

 April 3, 2016 at 11:46 am
 
My family situation is much the same….one person holding the rest hostage, with us all bending to suit the one, to have access to the rest. We live in hope that one day, this one person will wake up, and realize how much they are truly loved by the ‘bad’ people they now hold at arms length, but tolerate if we remain non vocal. Until then, we love them and give more than we should, painting a contrast between the JW lifestyle and a real one!
Reply
 
 
 FullyAwake says:

 April 4, 2016 at 11:03 am
 
I am exactly in the same situation as you are! I wonder how many are like this? I started going back to meetings after 3 months of not going just to appease my wife. Yesterday’s WT study highlighted scriptures that I am at odds with as to how they are interpreted by the org. and in the NWT Bible. They are Proverbs 8:22,23; Colossians 1:15-17 with the word [Other] being added; and John 1:1-3. Hang in there brother, I pray nightly fervently for an answer and I’m sure God and Christ will come through for me and you in time.
Reply
 
 
 Chiafade says:

 April 5, 2016 at 1:50 pm
 
I started off just like you. My wife was seemingly in the dark while I was wide awake. When the royal commission investigation started I made up my mind to leave. There was no way I could remain a JW in good conscience and I no longer believed that a just God would hold it against me for leaving a hypocritical unloving organization.
TERRIBLE child abuse policies along with lying about their UN involvement and a history of similar behavior made it impossible for me to stay. I had to pick a side. Justice? Especially for children or pretend to believe a lie? Everything came to a head with the elders (I was an elder at the time as well) and I finally confessed to my wife my true feelings.
I was ready for any eventuality. Ready for her to scream at me and leave, ask for a divorce or separation, ANYTHING. I knew that one thing I would not do is live a lie into my old age. It wouldn’t be fair to her or to me. Her response? She had hidden doubts for YEARS. Many of my concerns she had noticed long before I had.
To solidify my new found freedom I wrote a letter questioning the organizations decisions on a number of things. Things like “why did Geoffrey Jackson say it was presumptuous to believe they were God’s sole channel on earth when that is exactly what we teach?” ‘Why did Gerrit Losch say that he does not represent watchtower and that watchtower has no authority over him?”, why weren’t we told that this cost us 13million dollars? “. There were a few others but here’s my point. They responded, not to me, but to the body of elders. In it they said ” tell chiafade that we are not answering his questions and that he should look up these 1980 Watchtowers “.
When my wife saw these schoolyard tactics she was done with them. There’s always a 50/50 chance that your mate will go in either direction. Ultimately you have to decide What’s going to be the healthiest course of action. You do have to ask yourself whether you’ll be able to live with yourself. Will you be comfortable living a lie looking over your shoulder for possibly years? And how will this effect the way you treat your family? Sorry for the long post.
I do wish you well. It’s a hard road that no one should be forced to take. Our families are weaponized against us. Many of us have been through it. You have our support.
Reply
 
 
 
 WTF1914 says:

 April 3, 2016 at 7:25 am
 
I don’t know what’s the big f@&&$@ deal. It’s meant for April Fools people. I understand about your sensitivity issues since until now I am in this freaking cult. I know what it feels like to be trap and to finally know that you have been wasting your time, strength and money for nothing. John Cedars is the sole individual who helped me in researching the true facts. Provided to my indoctrinated brain some critical thinking it needs. Now sites as this provides solace to dubs like me who are sick and tired of the lies and deceits.
Good job on this article John. We need humor definitely in times likes this. The part that is true in your article is that DUMP (Donald Trump) is actually the leader of the GB
Reply
 
 
 Tara says:

 April 3, 2016 at 8:05 am
 
I seem to recall ISIS took great offence at the satirical Charlie Hebdo magazine and look what happened there. Did this stop stop the people from using humour to help the healing progress? no it did not. Humour heals. It is a coping mechanism. The date of 1st April was clearly posted on John’s article and most would have switched onto it’s meaning straight away. Lloyds tongue in cheek comments on his video’s often have me laughing into my coffee. A wise friend once told me ‘what ever happens, never loose your sense of humour’. Some times we can be too quick to take offence. The WT hates fun being poked at it because it smacks of truth and people remember the joke way after the point has been made. I’m sorry for all the hurt people have gone through because of the Borg. I am going through it now but humour helps me. John’s article was not aimed at those who are suffering it is aimed at those who cause the suffering. I also hope I haven’t cause offense by mentioning the Paris attack. That was not my intention, it just brought back memories.
Reply
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 3, 2016 at 8:52 am
 
Tara, I thought the same thing as you with reference to the Charlie Hebdo attacks. As a society, we need to dig deeper at times into what we read to understand the true intent behind behind the words. As you stated, I focused my attention on the Watchtower’s policies and did not disrespect the victims of the organization. As everyone should know, we are advocates for those victims.
The people who should be angry are Jehovah’s Witnesses and their leaders – where are their comments?
JR
Reply
 
 
 
 Minion says:

 April 3, 2016 at 9:49 am
 
Greetings to all:
I appreciate your disclaimer.
All Jehovah’s Witnesses, should come to realize The Watchtower Corporation IS NOT DIRECTED by HOLY SPIRIT.
JWs – consider this, if your automobile, home, apartment or mobile phone is functional, but you know something is wrong. What do you do?
 You correct it and now is 100% operable.
The Watchtower Corporation refuses to make adjustments or corrections to “non-biblical policies”.
For example, where do you find ‘word or type of material specific’ about sisters or brothers, Not to were spanex or spandex.
Or how about, brothers not to were ‘pink socks’.
Or how about, elders must shred all judicial committee notes – topic specific crimes against children known as child abuse.
Or how about, all the leaks from the District Overseers, Circuit Overseers, elders, and from The Watchtower Corporation or the bethelites.
* * update information: all District Overseers are no longer needed. You have been deleted. Where in the Bible did Jesus, deleted a DO?
All these leaks are arriving to ” out reach program web sites as JWSurvey.
 Why?……..because – enough is enough. Everyone is speaking out, not only with their wallets, purses, and home office leaks.
Now you have a better understanding on why these, “out reach program web sites exist such as JWSurvey.
JWSurvey = its true or its not! You decide.
They have awaken, and now realize Jehovah is not blessing or directing The Watchtower Corporation, however, the opposite is about to happen.
Jehovah is about to destroy The Watchtower Corporation.
Enough is enough.
Peace out,
Reply
 
 Ejecting to Sanity says:

 April 3, 2016 at 10:50 pm
 
Talk about the light getting brighter. ..thanks to sites like this we can research easier, faster and have a more comprehensive grasp on the worldwide situation of the borg.
Reply
 
 
 
 Fading Truth says:

 April 3, 2016 at 9:56 am
 
After a measure of reflection, I realize that my anger for the article was justified, but misplaced. With raw topics such as child abuse and the blood issue, it easily triggers emotions and in wanting justice, lash out.
This site was an easy and accessible outlet, but I needed to realize that we are all on the same side – to expose the policies of the Watchtower organization.
Feel free to delete my previous comments if you wish. Thank you for carrying the torch and for all your hard work.
Reply
 
 
 Twmack says:

 April 3, 2016 at 9:58 am
 
The article highlighted crucial areas where this organisation
 needs to make changes. I can understand the
 disappointment of some when it was revealed as an April 1st
 spoof.
But wasn’t this the point of it, to me it was a “Skit” against that
 org, demonstrating their entrenched and self righteous
 position and the unlikely prospect of such changes ever being
 made. Had it been revealed as satire upfront, it would have
 lost its impact.
This site has no peers when it comes to ridding the mind of
 cult rubbish. A saying comes to mind. “Don’t bite the hand that
 feeds you”. ( Just because an occasional meal is not to your taste)
Reply
 
 
 Daniel Roberts says:

 April 3, 2016 at 10:43 am
 
I like satire. I like dark/black comedy. I’m left feeling unsure over whether this article qualifies as satire. It doesn’t feel funny. It feels a bit cheap and unintelligent.
 The written equivalent of being called ‘jova! Jova!’ by the non witness bullies in the street.
 It’s not that I don’t value a sense of humour in difficult circumstances, but this feels a bit like petty ridicule rather than the educated and sensitive approach I’m used to from the great writers at JWSurvey.
 I get the joke. But it didn’t need to be told like this.
 I think a better April’s fools joke would have been a message from Cedars advising that he was shutting the website down due to being reinstated in his local congregation.
 That would have made me laugh.
 Or Covert Fade revealing himself to be Anthony Morris.. complete with tight fitting pants.
 Haha!
 Anyway. I’m not offended just a little let down for the many people who may be visiting this site for the first time this week – Only to find this article first… and the subsequent reactions to it.
 JWSURVEY is better than this in my sincere and well meaning opinion.
 Despite this I still congratulate those who run and contribute to this site for determination and effort.
Reply
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 3, 2016 at 12:10 pm
 
Daniel Roberts
Thank you for your comments. Disagreement is welcome, so long as you can engage respectfully and expect us to stand behind our work. So you have some alternative ideas for an April Fool’s joke – I can appreciate your concepts. Here is my viewpoint – I am actually not a fan of April Fools jokes. I am not a prankster, and I do not particularly like practical jokes. The are often taken too far and serve no purpose. When I wrote this article, I did not intent to be funny at all, with the exception of the Donald Trump comment and photo. That was strategically placed to let everyone know that the headlines preceding it were not actual news. Everything else was serious satire and not intended to be funny. Perhaps your expectations were too high, desiring JW Survey to take humour further and on a different topic, such as tight pants.
However I did not go that route, as JW Survey is not a humour site; it is a place where we stir the minds of thinking individuals and help free them from indoctrination. I made this very clear when I stated that the headlines were not real, followed by a plea to the Governing Body to recognize how reasonable those religious revisions really are.
It is unfortunate that you feel the article was “cheap” and “unintelligent” -but I am at a loss to find evidence that it was either. I have received commendation from several respected writers, which leads me to believe that the points made were delivered intelligently and without malice. Several persons commenting negatively wrote back later and revised their opinion after thinking more deeply on the subject. We respect your well-meaning opinion and hope that other articles will be more to your liking.
Also, our real target audience (at least our preferred audience) is people who are still Jehovah’s Witnesses, who may be helped by recognizing the contrast between reasonable doctrine and that which influences and damages lives.
JR
Reply
 
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 3, 2016 at 12:10 pm
 
Daniel Roberts
Thank you for your comments. Disagreement is welcome, so long as you can engage respectfully and expect us to stand behind our work. So you have some alternative ideas for an April Fool’s joke – I can appreciate your concepts. Here is my viewpoint – I am actually not a fan of April Fools jokes. I am not a prankster, and I do not particularly like practical jokes. The are often taken too far and serve no purpose. When I wrote this article, I did not intent to be funny at all, with the exception of the Donald Trump comment and photo. That was strategically placed to let everyone know that the headlines preceding it were not actual news. Everything else was serious satire and not intended to be funny. Perhaps your expectations were too high, desiring JW Survey to take humour further and on a different topic, such as tight pants.
However I did not go that route, as JW Survey is not a humour site; it is a place where we stir the minds of thinking individuals and help free them from indoctrination. I made this very clear when I stated that the headlines were not real, followed by a plea to the Governing Body to recognize how reasonable those religious revisions really are.
It is unfortunate that you feel the article was “cheap” and “unintelligent” -but I am at a loss to find evidence that it was either. I have received commendation from several respected writers, which leads me to believe that the points made were delivered intelligently and without malice. Several persons commenting negatively wrote back later and revised their opinion after thinking more deeply on the subject. We respect your well-meaning opinion and hope that other articles will be more to your liking.
Also, our real target audience (at least our preferred audience) is people who are still Jehovah’s Witnesses, who may be helped by recognizing the contrast between reasonable doctrine and that which influences and damages lives.
JR
Reply
 
 Grace says:

 April 3, 2016 at 3:00 pm
 
I’ve been struggling to find the right words to convey my thoughts & I think that Daniel Roberts has put it out there the best for me.
Daniel, I agree it would have been funnier if the joke was as you suggested with Cedars & Covert Fade, that would have had me in stitches but I simply just didn’t get it but that might just be my taste in humour.
I’m not offended by the article either, I just lost interest as soon as I saw the date 1 April! I knew then this is meant to be a joke & I stopped reading & lost interest. Then when I looked at the responses, I made myself read it through & I still didn’t get the joke & was left indifferent by it even a little confused.
I still love reading the articles here though & I appreciate your hard work.
Reply
 
 Grace says:

 April 3, 2016 at 3:05 pm
 
Also, I thought that satire was meant to be funny. I still don’t get it if it’s not meant to be funny then what is it? Please don’t take this the wrong way, I’m just not understanding whether it’s meant to be funny or not. Maybe I’m just black & white still with my thinking, I’m not sure how to take it.
Reply
 
 
 Daniel Roberts says:

 April 4, 2016 at 2:56 am
 
Hi Grace..yes I’m scratching my head on this. I can’t help but feel this article unintentionally trivialises such an important and emotional issue. For their target audience which JR says is practicing JWs, this article could serve to actually do the opposite of what JWSURVEY ‘s objective actually is. This article mocks . This can cause a defensive reaction in those still indoctrinated. They would then no longer trust this site and potential refugees from the watchtower cult would be further hard to reach.
 I feel a bit sorry for JR because his intention was good. .. but I do wish he’d display a less Governing Body-esquereaction to the criticism himself – and just say; ‘You know what… I’m sorry’.
Reply
 
 
 
 Daniel Roberts says:

 April 4, 2016 at 6:03 am
 
Hey John.. Thanks for the response.
 It’s a minefield certainly when it comes to any subject that involves peoples lives in a very real sense. Which is why I feel that your article might be perceived as mockery rather than a sincere voice for the silent majority.
 Your target/preferred demographic of practicing JW’s could see this as an attack rather than the logical persuading arguments that this site usually makes.
 The thing is, I’ve been disfellowshipped for 20 years, I still have immediate family very much indoctrinated and have been shunned by them for many years. I miss them terribly.
 I can’t help but imagine that if they were to have a crisis of conscience, and explore this site – which is arguably among the best – they would see your article – and their cognitive dissonance reaction would have them retreating further into the murky quagmire of cult indoctrination.
 As Stan Lee famously put it in his Comics, with great power comes great responsibility – And this website now has great power.
 Power to free people from enslavement. To reunite families.
 To literally save lives.
 So if an article has even a limited potential to undermine itself, it could be perhaps a misstep.
 I respect the fact that you stand by your work.
 I’ve noted it’s intent as being anything other than how I fear others would perceive it.
 I do hope I’m perhaps being overly fearful that it’s content might accidentally undermine the valiant efforts of all of you at JWSurvey.
With respect.
 DR
Reply
 
 dee2 says:

 April 4, 2016 at 7:45 am
 
Hi Daniel Roberts,
“This article mocks.”
 “Which is why I feel that your article might be perceived as mockery………”
Who is the article mocking?
Reply
 
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 4, 2016 at 8:35 am
 
Hi Daniel
I truly appreciate your comments, and I believe they are thoughtful and respectful. I personally believe only a tiny minority received this article differently than its intended purpose. To those offended I have apoligised, and added a disclaimer at the beginning of the article. In fact I added the disclaimer the same day I posted the article, April 1st.
That said, my fellow editor Covert Fade and our site owner Lloyd Evans reviewed the article several times and fully support it. Had they not offered such support or felt it was damaging in any way to JW Survey, the article would have been pulled.
Remember, most active JWs are conditioned to reject ANY apostate sites like Superman avoids Kryptonite. Nearly everything we write would be considered offensive to Jehovah’s Witnesses. But for those in the process of waking up, who are taking a chance by viewing an apostate site, I feel that the headlines which I wrote are extremely thought provoking and should make the thinking JW wonder “Why couldn’t the organization make these changes?”
I don’t believe my reactions are governing body-esque. First, we allow comments on our site, which the governing body would NEVER do. Can you imagine what would be posted on JW dot Org if comments were allowed? Second, we do not shun, disfellowship, block, or penalize anyone who disagrees with the content of this site (unless they are vulgar and disrespectful). We allow believers, atheists, and anyone else to view and comment on the site as much as they desire. That is what freedom is all about, and we learn from our exchanges.
We all come from differing backgrounds, have differing viewpoints, and what works for some will not work for others. This is just one article out of hundreds on this site. I don’t believe that a JW with doubts about the organization will be put off by the information presented, but time will tell. I hope one day, an active JW reads this and sends us a message telling us that they have woken up, and have left this religion. I hope that person is someone in your family.
Sincerely
JR
Reply
 
 Daniel Roberts says:

 April 4, 2016 at 9:57 am
 
Fair enough John.
 Thanks for the time and tact in your reply.
 Perhaps my Governing Body-esque jab was a bit mean and hasty if you have indeed made efforts to placate the offended few.
 Please accept my own apology.
 I do support this site and look forward to your next thought provoking article.
 Maybe one day your work will indeed help to reunite my family.
 Regards
 DR

 
 
 Meme says:

 April 5, 2016 at 9:50 am
 
I wasn’t put off, I was bored before I got too far into it and knew you were all enjoying the freedom to enjoy April Fools.
Sorry to see so much dissension amongst your ranks.
Yes, WT could make these changes, if they want to join the rest of main stream false religion….the easy road.
No doubts, just shaking my head. Enjoy your ‘freedom’.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 dee2 says:

 April 3, 2016 at 10:53 am
 
Perhaps the controversy surrounding this article and the angst directed at it by some clearly show just why the JW religion is a cult:
 Cults are well known to hide many of their more controversial practices from potential converts. A surreal picture is painted of the cult in order to attract converts; many persons do not know up front what they are getting themselves into when they sign up to become a JW.
Reply
 
 
 Alicja says:

 April 3, 2016 at 11:38 am
 
Everyone who was upset by this article I plead & yes beg to you don’t vent your anger on JR or this website.
 Please realise the greater enemy is the Watchtower organisation who has destroyed so so many families by their shunning & destructive policies.
 The Watchtower organisation never apologises & never offers disclaimers as shown by their attitude to child abuse by their use of donations to pay lawyers to be as obstructive as possible.
 Whereas this website has shown more humility & never has been blood guilty for the deaths of its members in regards to organ transplants & blood policies. Also this website has never broken up families or destroyed people’s lives & ambitions through neglected higher education .
 I understand people’s emotions are raw because we have all been damaged & hurt really badly by the policies of these deluded men of the GB.
 Let’s all support this website as it is doing a really important & valuable job in exposing the ongoing lies, corruption & manipulation of innocent people’s lives & families .
Reply
 
 
 Minion says:

 April 3, 2016 at 12:08 pm
 
Greetings to all:
It’s true or its not.
in the silver sword reads, “be fruitful and become many and fill the earth” (with gods blessing and direction)
 Catholicism membership: 1.2 billion = winner
 Protestantism: 400 million = 2 place bronze winnet
 Jehovah’s Witnesses: 7.5 million = the loser
 Reference membership numbers from Wikipedia.
Who of the three are in better position in membership to complish this task?
In the silver sword, Jehovah is known as the god of victory, guiding and directing, as in a movie production.
Did not the masses ‘hail David’ for killing thousand of thousands, however, acknowledge King Saul, ‘hail the king for killing a few’ then sought to kill David. Perhaps in envy.
Why would Jehovah pick a losing team – team JW.
 and not pick – team Catholic.?
“Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth, takes a different meaning. If the Bible is truly the word inspired of god.
It’s true or its not.
Peace out,
Reply
 
 
 Twmack says:

 April 3, 2016 at 1:24 pm
 
Satire often contains humour but it’s not essential for it to
 qualify as such. Irony, sarcasm, wit, are other elements
 that are often used. These I thought were there in J,Rs,
 article. (Just my opinion.)
,
Reply
 
 
 Bad Penny says:

 April 3, 2016 at 4:18 pm
 
JOHN R –
Boy, you’ve had some stick on this one!
 Re-reading the article I felt it showed just how easy it would be for Watchtower to change its policies and repent. I don’t think they ever will though, they never apologised for anything when I was a witness. Just covered over embarrassment with ‘New Light’.
I’m intrigued to know who is REALLY behind Donald Trump’s mask ….. could it be Mister Big???
Reply
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 3, 2016 at 4:35 pm
 
Bad Penny – thanks for your comments. I owe you a bad penny for your thoughts :-)
It seems you got the point very well. Not everyone did, and it opened up a lively discussion. This is a good thing, as it has provoked thought. If we released articles every week which were completely benign and repetitive, we would accomplish nothing. Preaching to the choir gets old, but calling attention to Watchtower policies by using satire and other means will ultimately be of greatest benefit to those affected.
Some of the knee-jerk reactions remind me of my own reactions to things I read when I was a young JW. I was ill-equipped to understand the deeper meaning behind various literary concepts, and reacted accordingly. I truly believe that a few months or even years down the road, some of the people with negative reactions will alter their position and understand exactly what I meant. Until then, they are welcome to argue their case, and do so respectfully on this site
JR
Reply
 
 Outandabout says:

 April 3, 2016 at 5:58 pm
 
I read your article before the disclaimer was added and I was totally sucked in at the start and to tell you the truth I was disappointed at the apparent U turn by the GB. In order for them to self destruct quickly, they need to keep on doing what they’re doing now. If they start getting a bit soft, there’s a chance people sitting on the fence will fall back in. We need them to continue to be unrepentant idiots in order for people to spot them more easily. I fully sympathise with people’s hurt feelings over this article but, sorry, there’s a war going on here. You can’t make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. It’s all for the greater good. Also, this article must stay! The comments expressed here are gold. Hopefully, anybody with more than one brain cell can see that this is not a site set up by satan for the sole purpose of deceiving JW’s.
Reply
 
 
 Bad Penny says:

 April 4, 2016 at 3:36 am
 
Cheers John –
If you owe me a bad penny, did you get the link on your ‘New Low’ article, (the very last comment). I thought it may hit the chuckle button, although deadly serious!
Reply
 
 
 
 
 Alice says:

 April 3, 2016 at 9:02 pm
 
I don’t have a sense of humor. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :) I’m joking.
Reply
 
 
 Alice says:

 April 3, 2016 at 9:04 pm
 
After reading the article and then reading the comments I have one thing I want to say; Oh my lord! um um :)
Reply
 
 
 Alice says:

 April 3, 2016 at 9:08 pm
 
The article and then the comments remind me of a picture I once saw. It was a cartoon of the English royal family in a fight. It’s one of the funniest cartoons I ever saw.
Reply
 
 
 Searcher says:

 April 4, 2016 at 8:55 am
 
Oh lighten up people!!! It was a joke on April Fools Day. You got fooled, I got fooled, we all got fooled and I laughed. I then reflected, “sure would be nice of the GB to relieve the burden they placed on their membership for so very long.” It did make you think and that was the point. I don’t believe this was an article made intentionally to offend anyone. One rule of humor is, that it needs a hint of a truthful or awkward situation to be funny.
No! Such a statement by the GB will never happen! Why? Because the governing body knows what the consequences of such moves would be for them. What consequences? Liable lawsuits and lots of them. Many more than they have now because that would be admission of error and guilt. The GB has to use the ‘new light’ excuse to cover their stupid sorry-a$$ leadership. That is the Modus Operandi (MO) since the days of the big blowhard Rutherford (who makes ‘The Donald’ look like amateur hour).
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 April 5, 2016 at 2:02 am
 
It was a great article. It fooled me for a minute. I was going to send it to my JW friends and family but I am glad I caught it before I sent it. I must admit I was “APRIL FOOLED” for a minute myself.Well written satirical. I did copy the Photo of Donald Trump with the GB and sent it to select ones in the JW world and had a good laugh.
 I did send it tone Pioneer who seemed upset with it and I told them to Relax it is a Joke. Like Donald Trump is Really going to become a JW? lol. The Wt can “Fool” us all the time any day of the year with the NEW LIGHT they project from NYC but a little laughter at them is nothing compared to what hey produce. By the Way my mothers Birth day is April 1st! May she RIP. I remember as a kid long before I became a JW it was April fools day and Mom’s Birthday she had a friend over the house and they were drinking coffee and they asked me to get them some sugar for the coffee. So I switched the salt into the Sugar holder and I said let me put the sugar in for you! So I eagerly waited and watched as they coughed and spit the Coffee out. lol Then My mom said , We can’t be mad at you son bc it is April fools day! lol
That was long before I was Banned as a JW to have any April fools fun. JW. The religion of No Fun.
Reply
 
 
 
 Twmack says:

 April 4, 2016 at 10:33 am
 
Lloyd, Enjoyed your comments on Sanderson’s visit
 to Spain, but I can categorically say I won’t be watching
 the whole video.
I wonder what the Spanish Bro’s, thought they were going
 to hear? A gov, bod, crossing the Atlantic to speak to them.
 What a let down ! Same old , same old, meetings and field
 service, these are the only things that will make you happy.
 I think Sanderson was taking his vacation there and the
 talk was part of the deal,
He mentioned a trip to Korea and his visit to 40 young Bro’s
 doing Jail time, ( no doubt for refusing military service).
 Were they incarcerated because of their faith? No,
 as you said, the the gov, body were entirely to blame.
Nowhere in the Bible is soldiering banned as a disreputable
 profession. Didn’t Israel have conscription to maintain a
 standing army, David said “JHVH is teaching my hands for
 fighting and my fingers for warfare” Ps, 144/1.
Jesus healed a centurions servant but didn’t make it
 conditional on his giving up military service. / So this
 is just one more area where their unrelenting dogma
 causes misery.
Reply
 
 
 Bret says:

 April 4, 2016 at 11:31 am
 
Wow.. Common everyone, it was April fools and it got me! I was like “No way”, and read on in complete disbelief and then there it was “April Fools” laughing so hard at myself i couldn’t stop and then sent it right away to a friend who is still active but not sold on it and he found it funny… Uptight men in suits… Reminds me of what it was like back when I was the serious Watchtower overseer..
Reply
 
 
 Candlestick says:

 April 4, 2016 at 12:50 pm
 
Ahh!! you got me. I was reading this at lunch and thought ‘OMG..are they for real?’ (I missed the disclaimer at the beginning.) Only till i got to the Donald picture did i get it.
With having a few family members still in the org, I thought maybe there was a glimmer of hope. But, I should have picked up on it. Well done… and i’m ok with having been HAD.
Cheers.
Reply
 
 
 Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

 April 4, 2016 at 1:01 pm
 
This article is wonderful. Compare it with the following piece of writing in the Watchtower magazine back in 1968. Enjoy!!
*** w68 12/15 p. 741 “Your Deliverance Is Getting Near” ***
“But as these things start to occur, raise yourselves erect and lift your heads up, because your deliverance is getting near.”—Luke 21:28.
 IMAGINE yourself reading the headlines in the newspaper:
 2 “Vatican City Has Been Destroyed! The Tremendous Crater Left in the Earth by the Blast of the Nuclear Bomb Has Left No Trace of the Reputed Tomb and Bones of St. Peter!.”
3 Would such headlines in the newspapers of the world mean anything to Roman Catholics, or, in fact, to all religious denominations of Christendom? Would such an event mark the end of a long epoch for them, with great uncertainty as to how to proceed in the future? Yes!
 4 Also: “Mecca Has Been Wiped Out by Missiles from the Air! The Sacred Shrine Incorporating the Revered Black Stone Has Vanished amid the Explosion!”
5 Would such headlines in the world press mean anything to the Islamic world? Would it signify the end of an era to them, leaving an unfillable blank in their outlook for the future? On top of that:
 6 “The Mosque ‘The Dome of the Rock,’ Second Most Holy Place in the Moslem Realm, Blasted Out of Existence! The Sacred Rock of the Prophet Mohammed Destroyed!”
7 Would such further news headlines add to Moslem convictions that an era had ended for them, leaving a big religious void? Yes!
Reply
 
 
 Mich says:

 April 4, 2016 at 4:44 pm
 
The April fool stuff being posted here is very very childish. I thought this site is for serious minds and thinker don’t know you even subscribe to April 1 and its foolings.
Reply
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 4, 2016 at 5:18 pm
 
Mich
Read the entire article to get the point. Nothing “childish” about the content. Cheers
JR
Reply
 
 
 
 MARS says:

 April 5, 2016 at 5:54 am
 
It had me fooled , I dont think that the GB will ever apologize . Did the Children of God cult ever apologize? No .
Reply
 
 
 Sarah says:

 April 5, 2016 at 7:54 am
 
I am a long time reader of this site and until now I’ve never felt the need to comment. I think its important, though, that you hear from those who appreciated this article along with those who didn’t.
It seems many are confusing satire with comedy. While comedy can be a component of some satire it is not a requirement. Webster’s dictionary defines satire as:
 1: a literary work holding up human vices and follies to ridicule or scorn
 2: trenchant wit, irony, or sarcasm used to expose and discredit vice or folly. This article fits that bill perfectly!
It also appears that many are still falling into the trap of accepting something immediately as truth and not using critical thinking. This is what we were conditioned by the JW organization to do with their teachings and is a very dangerous habit. One that all of us ex-JW’s should work to shed.
Thank you John Redwood for a very thought provoking article! You were able to shine a light on the atrocities of the JW organization and governing body in a creative way. The heated responses show how deeply hurt by the organization we all are. I hope in time those who initially directed their hurt towards you as the author of this piece see that its really the organization that should be on the receiving end of their anger.
Keep up the good work John Redwood and all of the JW Survey team!
Reply
 
 
 Bethany says:

 April 5, 2016 at 1:24 pm
 
The note part, does not show up in the email that came to my inbox. I trusted this site to be accurate, and when I read thru the fist half, I had to stop, catch my breath and wipe the tears from my eyes and slow my heaving chest. I didn’t even consider that I might possibly not be shunned by my entire family any longer, what was on my mind was my 12 year old daughter and the possibility that she might not be subjected to all that I was. And what this could mean for future generations.(She, my daughter is being raised JW by her father and the pressure for baptism is on) By the time I gathered myself and got through the rest of the article, I started to think it was too good to be true. Then came the Donald Trump bit and I knew I’d been fooled. But I had to pull up JW Survey the website to actually see the notation/disclaimer. This article broke my heart all over again. NOT FUNNY in any way. Unsubscribing now. Wow, (here’s some sarcasm for ya)… good job.
Reply
 
 
 SpecSavers says:

 April 5, 2016 at 4:29 pm
 
This is one of the most powerful articles I have read on this website… Yes, I realize that it’s a joke… But the comments about young children getting baptized and then being held accountable years later when they choose to take another path, got me thinking about the ‘legality’ of a decision which could have such devastating consequences, when the individual becomes an adult… Thought provoking!
Reply
 
 
 John says:

 April 5, 2016 at 5:27 pm
 
A notice that this is satirical should be indicated in the headlines. This is otherwise misleading to those who may not read the fine print. Does satire belong in a place previously devoid of satire? I’m beginning to not take this website seriously anymore.
Reply
 
 John Redwood says:

 April 5, 2016 at 5:49 pm
 
John
Check the site. I added a disclaimer on April 1st for the benefit of any who might fail to understand the opening satire.
As for reading the “fine print” – this is a rather bizarre way to describe an article, which by the way is an opinion piece clearly labeled “The Friday Column”.
This is not a contract, there is no “fine print”. Nothing to sign, no expectations. Just a Friday Column. If you prefer not to be surprised by the offerings of this column, you are free to ignore this weekly feature, or any other article that is not to your taste. Thanks for your input.
JR
Reply
 
 
 
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18 Responses to Videos

 KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:

 August 25, 2013 at 6:55 pm
 
With every word they reveal and “impart” far more than they ever intended…
Reply
 
 
 george says:

 August 27, 2013 at 4:45 am
 
Sorry Cedars, I can only access the first video on my I pad. There are a lot of over sized play icons and they won’t work.
Reply
 
 
 Luke says:

 October 27, 2013 at 5:27 pm
 
Continue the good work on this site that expose what Watchtower Organization really are — a fanatic end-time driven cult that only serve interests of its leaders. I left this
 cult three years ago for good. My only regret is that I had not left the Watchtower Cult earlier! On Easter Sunday this year, I was baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and received into Eastern Orthodox Church, apostolic Church that preserved the Faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
Cedar, you have my blessings of your work on this site that
 will yet help millions of JWs to see the truth of so-called ‘Truth’.
Reply
 
 
 Fred says:

 November 2, 2013 at 12:09 pm
 
Forget taking your numbers from a 1974 yearbook if you question the amount of those killed, interned, etc get the numbers from the Holocaust museum. You forgot to mention the ‘JEWS’ were and its quoted several times in the Watchtower publications as it is related in the bible, “ONCE GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE” but they did not remain that because of their actions. Your quotes from WT publications are based on the latter that they fell out of favour in God’s eyes. They therefor were NOT written in an anti-Semitic nature. Many Jews have become JW’s over the years are they lesser beings because they were of Jewish blood?…ABSOLUTELY NOT! All races are equal so this video in my opinion is twisted in its presentation. Not to mention the ridiculous claim of Rutherford’s so called love letter to Adolf Hitler. No blinders on here, I have checked the facts. Sorry but this video paints an untruthful twist of events and statements about the WT as regards the comments on the Nazi’s and Jews.
Reply
 
 
 Palma says:

 February 28, 2014 at 3:48 am
 
Hi everybody! Hi cedars!
 I found this article about a discovery in egypt that brings light to the origin of story of joseph in the bible.
 What do you think?http://www.davidovits.info/the-lost-fresco-and-the-bible-my-new-book-in-french/
Reply
 
 
 Idris says:

 March 27, 2014 at 8:12 am
 
Thank you for this page, it has been a great help to me, as I seek the truth of the word of God, however I noticed in the video ‘Does the Bible speak of ‘Paradise Earth’ the speaker quotes Luke 21v43 twice, regarding Jesus word on the cross, there should be a correction note as the verse he mentions is in Luke 23 v 43.
 Keep up the good work
Reply
 
 
 Julia Orwell says:

 July 17, 2014 at 3:47 am
 
Been to internationals before and this elaborate souvenir thing is entirely new. The last one I went to in 2009, the last ones they had, had nothing like this so it’s not a matter of you having not noticed it in the past, it’s a matter of it being a new phenomenon.
 I theorize that the wt motives for this involve keeping the masses busy and therefore obedient. Jws would volunteer to do this because there are no other legitimate outlets for creative expression. Armageddon being near has nothing to do with it: it’s about keeping the sheeple busy and happy. Making stupid trinkets is also a team building activity as it involves jws working together, thus reinforcing the herd mentality jws have.
Reply
 
 
 frankie fernandez says:

 February 27, 2015 at 4:44 pm
 
dear friends I was baptized in 1974. Thank God I am no longer a member of the WT. Free at last and oh what a relief it is. A member of my former congregation who I considerd my best friend molested a minor. There was a big argument amognst the elders on the judicial committee. One elder who was a maverick, wanted to notify the police. But, instead they followed the instuctions of the society. They kept this crime against the child, hush hush. So as not to tarnish the name of Jehovah. But in reality it was a coverup to protect the wt’s reputation. Meanwhile this poor child that was raped has to carry the heavy burden of a victim for the rest of thier lives without compensation and without justice. While the abuser has remaind a member in good standing. The congregation he is attending now has not been notified that he is a sexual preditor.
Reply
 
 Holy Connoli says:

 November 17, 2015 at 1:14 am
 
Frankie.If I were you I would turn him into the police now even though it may have been several years ago he committed this crime. Many sexual predators get turned in years later after the crime is reveled. At the very least he will be investigated and his Name will be mud for being a creep.
 He deserves it and so does the WT for its NON protection of the flock and not caring for the victim but only their phony reputation.
Reply
 
 
 Lesley HUmphreys-Jones says:

 February 15, 2016 at 10:10 am
 
Tell the police.
Reply
 
 
 
 Kirtley W. Burggraf says:

 March 11, 2015 at 11:16 am
 
Tell me, since governing body members are elected (replacing someone who dies) at what point do do they become “divinely inspired” or “spirit guided”? Were they always thus in the lower ranks or does this just “happen” the moment that they are appointed? What’s Watchtower’s take on this?
Reply
 
 
 Alone in MD says:

 March 31, 2015 at 6:00 pm
 
Regards your video on the Memorial Service. I am one of those “non believers” married to a baptized witness. I go to just keep the peace but I’ve made it known that I consider this service one of the worst religious ceremonies that I have ever been to. “Anointed What”. Also it was announced at last years meeting that “this may be the last memorial service”. They are at it again. Thanks for the great videos.
Reply
 
 
 frankie fernandez says:

 May 10, 2015 at 9:50 pm
 
IF CHRIST WAS ENTHRONGED IN 1914, WHY ARE THE WITNESES STILL CELEBRATING THE MEMORIAL? CHRIST SAID THAT AFTER HIS ARRIVAL NO ONE WAS TO CELEBRATE THE MEMORIAL .ALSO HE SAID THAT THE DAY OF HIS PRESENSE, IT WILL BE LIKE LIGHTNING FROM ONE POINT OF THE EARTH TO ANOTHER. LIGHTNING TRAVELS AT THE SPEED OF 3500 MILES PER SECOUND. SO IT WILL TRAVEL AROUND THE GLOBE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE. HE ALSO SAID THAT ALL EYES WILL SEE HIM. NOT LIKE THE WTS THAT SAYS WE ARE IN HIS INVISIBLE PRESENSE.
Reply
 
 
 pj wilcox says:

 July 31, 2015 at 3:21 am
 
I watched the latest video of the inept elder being questioned by the commission. Who prepared this man for testimony? You all are aware of the dentist who shot Cecil the lion in Kenya? Well his life is over. He is in hiding. What he did ,did not break laws in Kenya and his is in a world of trouble with public sentiment. But this elder being questioned is far worse. He covered deeds that drove people to think of killing themselves. Should he not go into hiding? Is his life over? Has he know conscience? Emotion, caring? You know the answer. Bet ya, damage control is working overtime on this.
Reply
 
 
 Adrian says:

 September 8, 2015 at 3:32 am
 
I think the Royal Commission videos demonstrate that fragility of the governance within the WT society. Yes, it’s an Australia branch issue but cross examination only points to the seat of control on which the governing body members sit. Everything starts and stops with the governing body, they set the policy but where are they? Sitting comfortably in NY watching from a distance ready to abdicate any responsibility whatsoever. A governing body governs and leads but I see no leadership I see the followers talking and being bashed around the head with questions, all too easy for the legal team.
However, it might just be me but does anyone else not see the lawyer’s gap in knowledge regarding the fundamental rationale for the WT society policies, they fall back in their comfort zone knowing that they can say ‘well we don’t have the authority to go beyond the bible.’
It’s this gap in knowledge of the legal representatives which the WT society exploit. I mean nobody is going to ask ‘ where actually did this translation come from anyway?’ What were the academic qualifications of the translators? Is there a possibility that you have interpreted things wrongly or even worse, translated things incorrectly? If there’s a possibility that your interpretation on how to deal with modern day child abuse cases in congregations may be flawed, then are you in agreement that your policies could result in lasting harm to victims of abuse? In my view that translation is the ‘elephant in the room’ every scholar knows it’s perverse but no one is holding this cult to account. So easy to say it’s all in the bible but should they really be saying it’s all in the NWT instead?
The WT society in the videos almost give of an innocence as if to say, ‘ but that’s what we understand from the scriptures’, and I think it works in their favor, but a savvy legal representative would do well to tease out the basis for the rendering of certain verses on which doctrine, policy and organisational decisions are based. So far the WT Society appears to be one step ahead because their authority is not a person but a book, which they are ‘only trying to understand and live by’. Expose the origin of the NWT and the basis for so many ridiculous uncaring decisions is called into question.
Reply
 
 
 Rick Viger says:

 November 10, 2015 at 3:26 pm
 
Thanks John for all you do with your videos.
 I’m an ex JW for 40 years now. I hope your videos reach some witnesses and make them think. For all of you that have left Watchtower remember you made the right decision.
Reply
 
 
 S.T. says:

 November 24, 2015 at 9:48 pm
 
I was wondering if anyone has heard that Jehovah’s witnesses are telling there congregations that the end of this system could have only hours left? My sister who is a Jehovah’s Witness said they are preaching this at the congregations. Has anyone else heard this?
Reply
 
 
 Paul says:

 April 3, 2016 at 10:24 pm
 
Indoctrination and mind control in its purest form. Will the BS never end, and is hard for me to understand why JW’S put up with this.
Reply
 
 
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