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The Effects Of Instant Information At Your Finger Tips How Will The Watchtower Ever Survive Very Long?
by Brokeback Watchtower 4 days ago 29 Replies latest a day ago   watchtower bible
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Brokeback Watchtower
Brokeback Watchtower 4 days ago

It is hard to teach that the Earth is flat these day do to a more informed society, and now that we have entered the information age I see a whole new ball game is before a rather ignorant bunch of old farts called the Governing Body. These guys are totally ignorant by choice and are trying desperately to keep their captive's ignorant for as long as possible. The GB's internet apperances are all laughable to any sane individual and a total embarasement. They can't let their light shine before men because they are really total idiot's who beleive in a fairy tale.
All this info is bound to trickle down to the average JW. I mean the Governing Body are total idiots on public display this has to get to many JWs.
 +12 / -0
Village Idiot
Village Idiot 4 days ago

When I went through my post-disfellowshipping crisis I thought that the advent of computers would signal the end of ignorance for JWs and the world. That was 35 years ago. I was wrong.
You need a combination of curiosity and integrity to find out TTATT. Most people don't have it.

 +18 / -0
jaydee
jaydee 4 days ago

I think there must be some 'truth' to that, (pardon the pun)
I wish I had the internet at my fingertips years ago.
I mean before the 'net', there was so much more mystque about the GB.
these mysterious faithful brothers that 'Jeh' uses.
Everybody knew of Freddy of course, but as to the rest, anonymity served them well.
Now that you can see and hear them though...( Steven Lett springs to mind )
they just don't have the same credibility

 +9 / -0
Magnum
Magnum 4 days ago

Village Idiot: You need a combination of curiosity and integrity to find out TTATT. Most people don't have it.
I agree. I used to believe something similar about one's becoming a JW. I believed that people had to have curiosity, integrity, strength, honesty, and a willingness to be different to hear and act on the "ring of truth", which I thought JWdom had. And I believed most people didn't have that.
And, to an extent, I still believe that. Well, let me qualify that; I would still believe it if JWdom was the way it was a few decades ago. I became a JW because I was curious and concerned and I was seeking. I was concerned about world conditions including suffering, injustice, ruining of the earth, etc., and JWdom offered what seemed at the time to be good answers. But a main reason I became a JW is that I didn't like what I saw in "churchdom". I saw phony, money-loving, glory-loving preachers. I saw churchgoers who knew nothing about the Bible or their own theology. I saw guys who went to church for the required one Sunday per month so they could play on the church basketball team. I saw a bunch of churches teaching many differing doctrines with no unity. JWdom seemed so different. I analyzed it, accepted it (although with some questions that were never answered), and had the strength to act on my acceptance.
I really believe that my doing that was an indication of curiosity, integrity, and other good qualities. I think it was kind of like reaching a first level of curiosity and integrity. I thought JWdom really was accomplishing a separating work. However, I continued to be curious; I continued to question and seek. I grew in honesty and strength. My curiosity, integrity, honesty, etc. led me to where I am today. I believe that I have now reached a 2nd level, a higher level of curiosity and integrity, and I think they many, if not most, JWs won't be able to do that.
 +9 / -0
joe134cd
joe134cd 4 days ago
I agree with village idiot. There has to be some sort of external trigger that leads you to the path. The free flow of information is simply the path you then walk down.
 +4 / -0
Magnum
Magnum 4 days ago

Brokeback Watchtower, I agree. However, unfortunately, I've seen a few anecdotal indications lately that some are lapping it all up. I can't wait to see what the trends are going to be in the next few years. Hopefully we will get some indications as to whether some JWs are seeing the light and, if so, how many.
How Will The Watchtower Ever Survive Very Long?
I wonder that often, but I guess it goes back to what Village Idiot said. Maybe a lot of JWs just don't have the curiosity, honesty, strength, etc. to recognize and act on the wrongs, the craziness, etc. of JWdom.
 +2 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 4 days ago

Most JWs need something to rock the boat before they can begin to awaken. The JW hampster wheel keeps them too busy to do any critical thinking. Until that happens, a person can shut the door on all those disturbing issues that keep popping up in the back of their mind. Cognitive dissonance is an amazing thing!
Doc

 +11 / -0
Island Man
Island Man 4 days ago

You know those programs for blocking out pornography, like Xstop? Well I wouldn't be surprised if Watchtower starts sending a special apostate-website-blocking program to all publishers to install on their computers and other internet-enabled devices. I believe that this is a very real possibility.
And to ensure compliance, they might make it so that when you install you must register your name and congregation and that information is sent to Watchtower VIA your internet connection. And if/when you uninstall a notification of this is also sent to Watchtower. That way the elders in each congregation can keep tabs on who in the congregation haven't installed the software so that they can provide them with "loving assistance" to make full use of this "loving provision" from Jehovah to safeguard their spirituality.

 +7 / -0
Skedaddle
Skedaddle 4 days ago

Hey, who's side are you on Island Man? Stop giving the enemy advice please!
 +8 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 4 days ago


The Effects Of Instant Information At Your Finger Tips How Will The Watchtower Ever Survive Very Long?
Watchtower will be here in some form or another,long after we`re all dead and gone..
It`s good to inform people about WatchTower..
Don`t waste your life trying to take it down..
Idiots have been lined up to keep it alive,for Generations..
Its been that way since before you were born..

 +8 / -0

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The Effects Of Instant Information At Your Finger Tips How Will The Watchtower Ever Survive Very Long?
by Brokeback Watchtower 4 days ago 29 Replies latest a day ago   watchtower bible
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Anders Andersen
Anders Andersen 4 days ago


Magnum: I believed that people had to have curiosity, integrity, strength, honesty, and a willingness to be different to hear and act on the "ring of truth".

However, I continued to be curious; I continued to question and seek. I grew in honesty and strength. My curiosity, integrity, honesty, etc. led me to where I am today. I believe that I have now reached a 2nd level, a higher level of curiosity and integrity, and I think they many, if not most, JWs won't be able to do that.
The way JW operate, they will most likely only find 'level 1' curious people.
You know, the type of people that might wonder about important questions, but are too lazy (or just not curious enough) to really investigate.
So, when a stranger knocks at their door (or when they are born-in) and delivers the apparent answers on a silver platter on their doorstep, they are curious enough to listen to what he has to say.
And when they hear that initial 'ring-of-truth' their other fine qualities (integrity, strength, honesty) help them to be sucked in to the cult.
Any 'level 2' curious person already did his own research, and if he encounters JW already is much better equipped with knowledge and opinions to see through their bullsh#t.
While writing this I suddenly realize that all those people I encountered in field 'service' that directly rejected me/Watchtower/Jehovah...they were not all ignorant, unwilling to learn or investigate, dishonest or less than integer. Many of them might have been, but a large portion had already investigated all kinds of topics, reached an honest conclusion, and knew up-front that whatever I was going to say wasn't worth their time.
Like I already know up-front that their is no value in letting a young-earth-creationist try to 'prove' to me that the earth is actually a little over 6k years old. I heard it all, he can bring nothing new, so no thanks.
In field service it was me - blindfolded by Watchtower - who wasn't curious, honest, integer and strong enough to really listen to what those people I met had to say, and then investigate that. It was me who was on level 1 or less for all these fine qualities.

 +3 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 4 days ago
Well said joe134cd!
 
freemindfade
freemindfade 4 days ago
Religion unfortunately is a very effective social technology. As Scientology and North Korea show it doesn't even have to be abrahamic bible based. I think the world has changed a lot, and I think it will take the next gen to really do without religion.
 +3 / -0
Vidiot
Vidiot 4 days ago


Outlaw - "Watchtower will be here in some form or another, long after we're all dead and gone."
Maybe so.
However, I'd be willing to bet that by 2050, it'll be just a half-million or so online-only members, with just the Warwick compound serving as a) the GB's retirement home, and b) incentive for the few loyalists to aspire to move to someday.
I could live with that.
 +2 / -0
Iown Mylife
Iown Mylife 4 days ago

The Internet is a wonderful thing! @Brokeback, this week I've been showing my granddaughter the you tube clips of the Australian court questioning the elders, and the great one of Kevin Bowditch struck speechless when asked "You don't care about children outside the congregation, do you?"
My granddaughter has been away from the jw for two years now, and has often commented about how great her life is now compared to the ridiculous stifling wt culture. Being able to see the hidden side of wt helps her understand a lot about how she was treated and what her family history involves.
A LOT of help available on the net!
Marina
 +3 / -0
jookbeard
jookbeard 4 days ago
social media has changed the goalposts in unprecedented ways never seen before, not just the interweb, the ARC was streamed on YouTube live that may not have been possible 15 years ago, false username/aliases can be used by the R&F, their growth and haemorrhaging of members has been unprecedented in most of their history, the 1960's-1970's had them trapped with the 1975 nonsense, the 1980's had them salivating with the end of the millennium and the completion of the preaching work and the creators promise to be fulfilled, yet in the 1990's we saw the OLG! LOL, KH's sold,D2D almost finished, Branches sold off, meetings reduced etc the list continues, the next 10 years will be pivotal not just to them but other cults as well.
 
flipper
flipper 4 days ago

I agree with Village Idiot and Magnum very much so on this subject. JW's are taught NOT to have curiosity about things outside the JW experience. They are NOT taught about REAL integrity- only " integrity " that follows or protects the WT organization. JW's are TAUGHT NOT to have ethics and are Taught NOT to question anything they are taught from the WT Society. If anything- they are trained , and indeed demanded of to BELIEVE everything coming out of the mouths of the GB, WT publications, and anything on their websites or at their meetings.
With the mind control and brain manipulation tactics flooding through the average JW's brain neurotransmitters in their nerve endings - unless something interrupts the false flow of WT information pouring into their minds - that information becomes their " world view " if they don't check the Internet or get access to other information that might free them ! As some of you mention - like Desirous of Change mentioned- something needs to rock their boat in order to awaken to TTATT . Either they have to suffer injustices personally from WT authority figures or see loved ones get the shaft from other JW's. Sometimes even THAT doesn't work due to the mind control.
It's like we are dealing with pre-programmed robots here people - almost like a scene out of the old Yul Brynner movie " Westworld " where these pre-programmed robots went crazy destroying everything . Until there is a disconnect within a typical JW - the destruction of families continues . The power of mind control cannot be underestimated. One reason I feel we Ex-JW's need to keep speaking out about this criminal organization the WT Society. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
 +3 / -0
cofty
cofty 4 days ago
The internet is making recruitment very difficult, especially if potential JWs investigate at an early stage.
 +4 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 4 days ago

One reason I feel we Ex-JW's need to keep speaking out about this criminal organization the WT Society.
I think the greatest witness we can give as an XJW is to live a happy and "good" life. JWs would like to think that everyone who leaves has done so because they want to pursue a life of debauchery or because they are guilty about something or because they have lost "Jehovah's Spirit" as a result of some secret sins.
It boggles their mind when they see that you are 1) still married; 2) not smoking; 3) not a drunk; 4) not in jail; 5) enjoying a happy life even though you have "left Jehovah's loving bOrganization".
Doc
The greatest revenge is living a happy & successful life!
 +3 / -0
just fine
just fine 4 days ago

From what I can see in my family, the curiosity isn't there, because if they allow the Watchtower to make all the decisions for them, they aren't responsible for the outcome. If they make their own decisions then the outcome is theirs, and they are reluctant to take on that responsibility.
 +2 / -0

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Topic Summary
it is hard to teach that the earth is flat these day do to a more informed society, and now that we have entered the information age i see a whole new ball game is before a rather ignorant bunch of old farts called the governing body.
these guys are totally ignorant by choice and are trying desperately to keep their captive's ignorant for as long as possible.
the gb's internet apperances are all laughable to any sane individual and a total embarasement.



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What's up with the HEBREWS translation?
by TTWSYF 4 months ago
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by Tenacious a month ago
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Is reasoning with a JW the answer?
by Saved_JW 3 days ago
Saintbertholdt
Why the Governing Body caught a frightful fright
by Saintbertholdt 3 months ago



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The Effects Of Instant Information At Your Finger Tips How Will The Watchtower Ever Survive Very Long?
by Brokeback Watchtower 4 days ago 29 Replies latest a day ago   watchtower bible
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LostGeneration
LostGeneration 4 days ago

I'll take it a step further beyond curiosity and state you have to have some COURAGE to look into things.
Courageous people will follow the information to its logical end, no matter the consequences. WT purposely sets it up so that within a few seconds of hearing or reading "apostate" information the JW has a choice to make.
One choice leads to everything staying the same. If they reject it out of hand, their little world remains intact with their hope, but also with their friends and family.
They other choice means the loss of their hope, and the very real possibility of losing all of their friends and family, depending on their level of involvement.
Its a very evil setup, designed to keep the machine running for a very long time. That is why they will never, ever stop shunning those who leave.
 +4 / -0
flipper
flipper 4 days ago

DESIROUS- I agree that living a happy, successful life is a great revenge indeed towards illuminating JW's to TTATT. However I feel that non-JW's we come across in daily life need to know about the dangers of the WT Society. I try to expose it so people will be aware. I can STILL do that- and have a happy life in other areas while I'm exposing the WT Society. It's not black & white. Either this or that.
I don't expose the WT to my JW relatives though as I'm careful not to trigger any of their JW defenses they might put up as a wall. But in my opinion non-JW's or " worldly " people DO need to be informed as to the dangers within the WT criminal organization. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
 +3 / -0
Pete Zahut
Pete Zahut 4 days ago

The GB's internet apperances are all laughable to any sane individual and a total embarasement. They can't let their light shine before men because they are really total idiot's who beleive in a fairy tale.
All this info is bound to trickle down to the average JW. I mean the Governing Body are total idiots on public display this has to get to many JWs.
Many have said similar things about Donald Trump but look how far his campaign has gone so far and how many are supporting him.
The WT will be around for a long time to come but the hold they have on people will be different. We were kept in darkness but soon, (except for the children) it will be the individual JW's own fault if he chooses not to acknowledge the information that's out there.

 +1 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 4 days ago

FLIPPER: However I feel that non-JW's we come across in daily life need to know about the dangers of the WT Society.
I'm with you there.
It's just that some of us don't have full "freedom of speech" if we want to maintain our ongoing "fade". A "warning" given to the wrong person can find its way back to the JW Gestapo resulting in a quick end to a successful fade.
A workmate said a JW was calling on their in-laws regularly and asked me for more info. I shared some things to caution them, which they relayed to their family, who then innocently asked the JW about it on the next visit. Of course the JW wanted to know where they heard such lies. No doubt from apostates. Fortunately, my name was never revealed as the source. I did learn who the JW was, and we are well acquainted.

Doc

 +2 / -0
Iown Mylife
Iown Mylife 4 days ago

HAH on them, DOC - they got put on the defensive and the best answer they have is to ask who is giving you info, oh and it's not true. I hope those people continue to think and ask questions!
Marina
 +1 / -0
Brokeback Watchtower
Brokeback Watchtower 3 days ago
If it survives to the year 2050 it will be a miracle and if it does it will be filled with all old people that are almost illiterate and very uneducated.
 +2 / -0
Brokeback Watchtower
Brokeback Watchtower 3 days ago
Just another thought on the year 2050. What kind of loonies will be on the Governing Body at that time? That's about 34 years from now and most if not all these idiots on the GB will be dead. It's gotta be a big problem to find people to make up the Governing Body. People dumb enough to rise to the top of the bullshit pile of believers and get noticed for a prospective member. That doesn't bode well picking somebody smart enough to run a corporation to guide it in any kind of useful direction.
 +2 / -0
Vidiot
Vidiot 3 days ago

@ Brokeback WT...
They're gonna make Glenn Beck look like a sane, reasonable individual, huh? :smirk:
 +0 / -1
Phizzy
Phizzy 3 days ago

"  it will be filled with all old people that are almost illiterate and very uneducated."
It has almost reached that stage, has it not ?
 +2 / -0
Vidiot
Vidiot a day ago

@ Phizzy...
Well, it sure as hell ain't busting at the seams with fresh-faced, scholarly mensa members. :smirk:
 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
it is hard to teach that the earth is flat these day do to a more informed society, and now that we have entered the information age i see a whole new ball game is before a rather ignorant bunch of old farts called the governing body.
these guys are totally ignorant by choice and are trying desperately to keep their captive's ignorant for as long as possible.
the gb's internet apperances are all laughable to any sane individual and a total embarasement.



Related Topics
TTWSYF
What's up with the HEBREWS translation?
by TTWSYF 4 months ago
Terry
TRUTH or OPINION--which is it when the Governing Body speaks?
by Terry 19 days ago
Tenacious
Jehovah's Witness Teens 13 and 10 Commit Suicide in Wisconsin
by Tenacious a month ago
Saved_JW
Is reasoning with a JW the answer?
by Saved_JW 3 days ago
Saintbertholdt
Why the Governing Body caught a frightful fright
by Saintbertholdt 3 months ago



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Bible Research & Study Articles
Critical analysis of the WatchTower Bible & Tract Society publications and the bible
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Island Man
2
Lurking JWs: Do people really need to know and use the word "Jehovah" or other language equivalents, to truly know God?
by Island Man in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 7 hours ago
watchtower puts forth the argument that you can't really know god unless you know and use the appellation "jehovah" or its equivalent in other languages.

is this really true?

i say it's not true and i will demonstrate to you why.. god's name is not a mere label that we have to use to communicate with him so that he knows we're talking to him.

dbq407
Island Man
6 hours ago
James Mixon
13
Would crime rate go up if we were 100% positive this is the only life???
by James Mixon in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 21 hours ago
no resurrection, no 70 virgins, no 7 millions jw's living for thousand of years, no coming.

back as dog or cat you are dead and done..

Hoffnung
WhatshallIcallmyself
James Mixon
11 hours ago
Atlantis
33
2016-4-4-BOE!--Scanning and Sending Medical Records through Emails!
by Atlantis in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 a day ago
i was always under the impression that only "licensed" persons had the authority to do this.. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.

2016-4-4-boe scanning and sending medical records through emails!.

.. this is the last paragraph of the main body of the boe without the top and bottom, which revealed the congregation and information which could expose our source.. .. "therefore, brothers, i appeal to you to make sure that a copy of the new add for every publisher is kept in alphabetical order, perhaps using an a-z filing system to expedite it's location and so that it can be kept neat, clean and legible for scanning and emailing for up to 4 years, after which a new copy should be completed.

GoneAwol
cofty
rebel8
7 hours ago
WhatshallIcallmyself
4
Skin of My Teeth
by WhatshallIcallmyself in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 a day ago
an evidence for divine origin that has often been used (at least to me) is where job describes "...escap[ing] with the skin of my teeth".

science is quoted as having discovered that teeth are covered in skin and therefore how would job have known something that modern science has only just discovered.

i was reminded of this at this weeks meeting when this verse was quoted but was surprised when a commenter said how it wasn't necessary to mention this in light of other "evidence" in the bible.

Finkelstein
Pubsinger
OneEyedJoe
a day ago
Atlantis
9
S-77 Form--Britain!
by Atlantis in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 2 days ago
say wifi, if we don't have this one in the archives would you throw it in there.

some kind folks sent it over and we may need it some day.

.. s-77 form britain (a lot of boxes to check on this one!)..

Diogenesister
Watchtower-Free
Anders Andersen
17 hours ago
James Mixon
6
Bethelities, GB field service?
by James Mixon in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 3 days ago
the time they actually spend knocking on doors and cart work??

?

Da.Furious
matt2414
fulano
10 hours ago
Loi_241
28
Christians Know Who God Is
by Loi_241 in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 3 days ago
many of us christians have a good question for you to ask, “who is god?” there are more than six scriptures to share with you.

you know the bible itself a true message for all the people on earth.

the bible explains ‘in the beginning god created everything: heaven, earth, animals, people and everything.’ thus, you notice god created humans, adam and eve.

Island Man
OnTheWayOut
redvip2000
13 hours ago
Slidin Fast
23
Generation Nonsense in today's WT
by Slidin Fast in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 4 days ago
abraham was part of the 9th generation as a descendent of shem.

yet, their lives overlapped by 150 years.

yep, they were of the same generation!

Finkelstein
SpiritualGal08
stuckinarut2
3 days ago
sherrie11
8
GSBN News
by sherrie11 in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 4 days ago
oh my they are televising the gilead school graduates(coff)!!!!.

http://tv.jw.org/#en/video/vodprogramsevents/pub-jwbgg_201603_2_videochad and krista lea heggs testimonial!

sorry guys i haven't been able to edit just their segment!if any one can edit it i would be very grateful!they are making the borg look like a current affairs type program.

stuckinarut2
Barrold Bonds
sherrie11
4 days ago
Brokeback Watchtower
29
The Effects Of Instant Information At Your Finger Tips How Will The Watchtower Ever Survive Very Long?
by Brokeback Watchtower in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 4 days ago
it is hard to teach that the earth is flat these day do to a more informed society, and now that we have entered the information age i see a whole new ball game is before a rather ignorant bunch of old farts called the governing body.

these guys are totally ignorant by choice and are trying desperately to keep their captive's ignorant for as long as possible.

the gb's internet apperances are all laughable to any sane individual and a total embarasement.

Vidiot
Phizzy
Vidiot
a day ago
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The "apostacy stigmatisation" of doing research!
by stuckinarut2 2 days ago 10 Replies latest a day ago   watchtower beliefs
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stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 2 days ago

A thought occurred that the way the society has stigmatised the doing of external research by witnesses, and labelling any such questioning as "apostate", is tragic.
No doubt, in EVERY other aspect of life, we research things before making decisions. eg, if making a purchase, we go online and check reviews etc to check the product out. We don't just trust the words of the marketing department. This is not a sceptical task, but a fact finding one.
Or, what if we hear about a product recall, for example a tinned food in a grocery store, do we take the precautionary step of checking our pantry, and getting rid of any possibly affected item we have bought? Or do we say "I have always bought this item, and I will not change now just because the Media has released a warning!"
Or if a vehicle manufacturer issues a recall to fix a problem, do we ignore it?
 +10 / -0
stillin
stillin 2 days ago

Good illustrations, stuck. Sure, you might still purchase something, even if it's in less-than-perfect condition, but that's an informed choice to make. The seller deceiving his customer is the heinous thing in this case.
I have always thought that at the very least, the "Watching the World" tidbits could contain some current affairs about the WTS. For example, some of the legal entities that they have established could have been explained to the r&f. Instead, all the common, everyday Witness gets is hearsay. Very clergy-like. "Don't you worry your heads about these things. WE will worry about that! YOU just be obedient!"
 +1 / -0
konceptual99
konceptual99 2 days ago
Silly siar82. Of course you can do research. You can research lots of things using the fantastic JW Research Guide. See, it's even called Research Guide. Only today I was reminded that the Bible is true because it says so in the Bible. I didn't even have to google anything to find that out. What a time saver. How happified I was.
 +9 / -0
ToesUp
ToesUp 2 days ago

You are 100% correct! The internet is having a major impact on WT. The internet age is here and is biting WT in the a**. Telling people not to do research on a subject is crazy. If one of my kids came home and wanted to join a church or all of a sudden became consumed with a cult like JW, you would bet I would be on the internet to do my research.
This is a good thing!
 +5 / -1
freemindfade
freemindfade 2 days ago
I had heard a disgusting public talk a few weeks ago where they were talking about "witnessing" (recruiting) and everything they were saying about getting people to question, criticize and eventually leave their "false" religion were things they forbid in their own religion. It turned my stomach I was literally shaking my head in disgust.
 +6 / -0
blondie
blondie 2 days ago
Before 1981, research was not frowned much upon. In fact the WTS still quotes from non-jw religious sources. But with the "great apostasy" at Bethel and the exit of many senior Bethelites because of research in "private" groups, using your own brain was considered apostasy.
 +8 / -0
Hadriel
Hadriel 2 days ago

Basically anything disparaging toward the organization is apostate. It matters not if it is fact.
Everything is double rainbows and unicorns. It's embarrassing that I bought into it all.
 +1 / -0
Giordano
Giordano 2 days ago

A functioning JW has to subscribe to the principle of 'Rational Ignorance' which means............"refraining from acquiring knowledge when the cost of educating oneself on an issue exceeds the potential benefit that the knowledge would provide".
There is no point in learning about any number of things, like the history of mankind, evolution, non christian history, politics, a serious study of other religions, the safety of blood transfusions, the mistakes of the WT society.
A believing JW does not have to waste time questioning anything that is in conflict with the Society.
Critical thinking and critical judgement of anything that has a JW copyright is totaly unnecessary if you want to remain a JW.






 +1 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 a day ago

Yes, even the expression "critical thinking skills" has been demonised by the society!
Many schools teach "critical thinking" in order to equip youths as they grow to be informed citizens. BUT the society has stigmatised that very expression, thus preventing genuine "critical thinking"....
 +1 / -0
Hadriel
Hadriel a day ago
@stuck no witness in their right minds would refrain from fact checking in pretty much anything else in their lives. That sort of says it all really.
 +1 / -0

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The "apostacy stigmatisation" of doing research!
by stuckinarut2 2 days ago 10 Replies latest a day ago   watchtower beliefs
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Vidiot
Vidiot a day ago

"Research" has been a dirty word to JWs for a looooooong time.
x
I still remember the first time my fellow fader wife used it in a non-derogatory way (with regards to learning the TTATT).
It was a very cool little moment. :sunglasses:
 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
a thought occurred that the way the society has stigmatised the doing of external research by witnesses, and labelling any such questioning as "apostate", is tragic.. no doubt, in every other aspect of life, we research things before making decisions.
eg, if making a purchase, we go online and check reviews etc to check the product out.
we don't just trust the words of the marketing department.



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/ Why calling Daesh/ ISIS a Mind Control Cult is of Strategic and Practical Importance -Steve Hassan  04/8/2016by Steven Hassan M.Ed, LMHC, NCC – 04/8/2016
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Why calling Daesh/ ISIS a Mind Control Cult is of Strategic and Practical Importance -Steve Hassan  04/8/2016by Steven Hassan M.Ed, LMHC, NCC – 04/8/2016
by Watchtower-Free 2 days ago 4 Replies latest 2 days ago   watchtower beliefs
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Watchtower-Free
Watchtower-Free 2 days ago

by Steven Hassan M.Ed, LMHC, NCC – 04/8/2016

http://freedomofmind.com/blog/2016/04/10/why-calling-daesh-isis-a-mind-control-cult-is-of-strategic-and-practical-importance-by-steven-hassan-m-ed-lmhc-ncc-0482016/
This morning, The New York Times published an article entitled “Radicalization of a Belgium Student Turned Bomb Maker Was Invisible.” This piece, written by Alissa J. Rubin, details the conversion of 24-year-old Najim Laachraoui, one of the suicide bombers responsible for the attack of the Belgium airport on March 22. Rubin cites associates and family members of Laachraoui, who all say that while he leaned toward a strict version of Islam, and they did notice changes in his ideology and behavior, they never suspected he would be capable of such violent acts. By all accounts, before his conversion Laachraoui was not a violent person, he was not unstable, and he was not sympathetic to those professing hate. It’s very likely that a young Laachraoui would have been appalled by the thought of becoming a suicide bomber. So, what happened?
This “invisible radicalization” among those who become members of the Islamic State and other high-control cults is not uncommon. Organizations like ISIS routinely use deceptive tactics to recruit intelligent young people into their ranks. Because there are a variety of front groups used, it’s very possible that Laachraoui was unaware that the people he made first contact with were even tied to ISIS. Khalid Zerkani, the street preacher who introduced Laachraoui to ISIS was likely trained in how to employ persuasive techniques like “love-bombing” on potential recruits. This article mentions that Laachraoui’s hometown of Schaerbeek was known to have problems with Islamophobia and segregation of minorities. When Laachraoui heard the message of the preacher and was invited to join a brotherhood of fellow Muslims, he likely thought he’d found acceptance.
I have spent 40 years researching cult recruitment tactics and mind control. Through my research, I have created the BITE model that outlines the four types of control that cults and other high-control groups use over their victims. These four types of control are: behavior control, information control, thought control, and emotional control. When a group has managed to assert power over these four areas, a recruit like Laachraoui becomes a member and that member can be used for any purpose the leadership demands. When it comes to terrorist groups, the same basic principles apply, but with much more dangerous outcomes. In response to this, I have developed a new, more detailed, BITE model that specifically applies to extremist cults like ISIS.
ISIS is, at its core a destructive cult. I have written and
about this very fact previously and it seems others are now coming to same conclusion. Just this week on Fareed Zakaria’s GPS, Philip Mudd, CNN’s Counter Terrorism expert and former CIA official used the term “cult” twice. These types of statements mark important progress in understanding terrorist groups like ISIS. Instead of seeing them as a mysterious and powerful group of fanatics, it is important we begin examining their practices and recruitment methods.
Looking back, there were subtle signs that Laachraoui was a victim of undue influence. I believe that early intervention by concerned family members could have stopped him from becoming an ISIS soldier. I have made it my goal to work towards the development of a program that trains others to recognize recruitment activity and the warning signs of undue influence in our communities. If shared on a widespread basis, this information could be extremely helpful in the fight against terrorism and help end the suffering caused by deceptive cults like ISIS.
—–
Steven Hassan is author of Combating Cult Mind Control: The #1 Best Selling Guide to Protection, Rescue, and Recovery from Destructive Cults and his web site is freedomofmind.com
 +4 / -0
freemindfade
freemindfade 2 days ago

I believe that early intervention by concerned family members could have stopped him from becoming an ISIS soldier
As with JWS this would likely be programmed into them that this is expected persecution and they would fall on the other side of the us vs them mentality.
 +2 / -0
flipper
flipper 2 days ago

WATCHTOWER FREE- Very interesting. Thanks for posting this. I've always felt that the same tactics used to recruit new JW members are similar tactics used to recruit terrorist members into groups as well. The similarities are shocking. Steve Hassan is definitely correct- these groups the Muslim extremist groups or whether they are non-violent cult groups like Scientology or Jehovah's Witnesses do the same things psychologically to people in a similar fashion - using behavior control, information control, thought control, and emotional control. And then like what happened to the young Belgium terrorist- he was " invited to join a brotherhood of fellow Muslims , he likely thought he had found acceptance. " And that is EXACTLY what Jehovah's Witnesses do- love bombing newer members making them feel that they are a " people for special possession " or " Jehovah's chosen people " - in which it empowers the illusion to rank & file JW's in their minds that they are MORE special than any other people on the planet.
It's an extremely dangerous coercion and manipulation of humans - even MORE dangerous when deadly terrorist groups use these methods to recruit. Most people in the ordinary public are totally oblivious to the dangers of mind control - whether it's used to recruit Muslims, JW's, Scientologists, or even " Christian " religions. People are extremely naïve in general - one reason so many people get fooled and taken in by all these groups. Thanks for this informative thread ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper
 +2 / -0
JWdaughter
JWdaughter 2 days ago

I agree. I have felt this for years, but could not articulate it. The problem with ISIS is that it ends in violent deaths, almost inevitably.
Calling every Muslim a terrorist does feed ISIS with new recruits, because human nature plays into cult tactics well.
 +1 / -0
freemindfade
freemindfade 2 days ago

The Muslim religion and its disgusting book should be criticized as much as any religion. The bible is full of despicable bronze age ideas and so is the Koran.
If you can convince people to believe absurdities you can convince them to commit atrocities.-Voltaire.
Fact: ISIS practices a plausible interpretation of Islam.
Not every Muslim is a terrorist, but they don't have to be to support ideas that undermine human rights.
Calling every Muslim a terrorist does feed ISIS with new recruits, because human nature plays into cult tactics well
If criticizing a religion causes more to become radical, there is something wrong with the religion not the critics...
 

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/ The Finished Mystery: 1917 Print
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The Finished Mystery: 1917 Print
by Hadriel 2 days ago 7 Replies latest a day ago   watchtower beliefs
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Hadriel
Hadriel 2 days ago

Anyone have a copy of this book? I'll pay hard cash :smile:.
I don't know if this is appropriate to post so if not feel free to can the post.
PM if you have a copy and would part with it.
 
oppostate
oppostate 2 days ago

It's available at archive.org in digital format:
https://archive.org/search.php?query=The%20Finished%20Mystery%3A%201917

 
Watchtower-Free
Watchtower-Free 2 days ago
For sale on Ebay now

 
Anders Andersen
Anders Andersen 2 days ago

Hadriel,
I have been looking for a hardcopy of that book as well.
Unfortunately the originals are a bit too expensive for my liking: http://www.ebay.com/bhp/the-finished-mystery
Be aware that the cheaper ones are actually reprints...
 
Hadriel
Hadriel 2 days ago

Right @Anders I've noticed that as well I want the real deal. I'd prolly pay 3 bills or so for it. I could go Ebay but I'd rather find a private party here or something. Where maybe someone could use the cash? Scratch each other's back type deal.
 +1 / -0
dropoffyourkeylee
dropoffyourkeylee a day ago
The original is definitely hard to find. I had a reprint at one time. Tried to read it; boring. It's awful.
 
Hadriel
Hadriel a day ago
@drop I don't want it for reading. I want it for evidence.
 +1 / -0
betterdaze
betterdaze a day ago

Have you tried WorldCat.org for a hardcopy in your area? You can search by zip code and your local reference librarian or university may be able to get their hands on it for you.
They list at least two versions:
Author: C T Russell
Publisher: Brooklyn [N.Y.] : International Bible Students Association, ©1917.
Author: C T Russell; Clayton J Woodworth; George H Fisher
Publisher: Brooklyn : International Bible Students Association, 1918.

You could also try a more generic search for “Studies in the Scriptures”. It was number 7 in the series.
Good luck!


 

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May 2016 CLAM videos
by wifibandit 2 days ago 10 Replies latest 14 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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wifibandit
wifibandit 2 days ago










 
ttdtt
ttdtt 2 days ago
The MOST WORTHLESS way to teach people to teach!
WOW could them make them more ROBOTIC and less REALISTIC?
 +2 / -0
steve2
steve2 2 days ago

Template for becoming a JW: Ask child-like questions about life and accept JWs scripted, simplistic answers.
The "reasoning" in Video 1 is an example. From the Biblical phrase, "Death will be no more", the JW argues it can't be referring to life in heaven because there's never been any death there, so it must refer to...earth!
But, if after your earthly life is finished you go to heaven, couldn't you now say, "Death will be no more"?
Why does a simple Biblical phrase preclude it being in heaven?
Oh, I don't believe in either view. I am just tsken by the simplistic reasoning - and the householder's compliant acceptance of the spoon-fed answer.
 +3 / -0
Darkknight757
Darkknight757 2 days ago
Sorry Steve. It must be referring to earth cause the shadow says so.....
 +2 / -0
Darkknight757
Darkknight757 2 days ago
Well at least in the first video they mixed it up a bit by standing opposite they normally stand.
 
neat blue dog
neat blue dog 2 days ago
Thanks. Are these on Google drive also (the un-recompressed original file with original file name and embedded thumbnail)?
 
wifibandit
wifibandit 2 days ago

The source posts them publicly to the exjw reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/4egifk/the_may_clamm_presentation_videos/

 +1 / -0
Atlantis
Atlantis 2 days ago

wifi:
Many thanks!
.
Atlantis!
 +1 / -0
sir82
sir82 a day ago

JWs use simplistic reasoning that would only appeal to simpletons.
The chronically stupid are their targets. They do not think and obey with docility, thus making them potentially perfect JWs.

 +1 / -0
punkofnice
punkofnice a day ago

A clam being videoed
Image result for photographing a clam

 +1 / -0

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May 2016 CLAM videos
by wifibandit 2 days ago 10 Replies latest 14 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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BluesBrother
BluesBrother 14 hours ago
Privately the dubs around here dismiss these videos as "too American, it would never work around here" . They politely listen, then just do their own thing.
 

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sample 1. sample 2. sample 3.



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Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
What Jehovah's Witnesses believe and why they do what they do
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wifibandit
5
2016-03-12-E US BOE Re: Literature Offer for July through December 2016
by wifibandit in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 11 hours ago
to all congregations in the united states branch territory re: literature offer for july through december 2016.

Magnum
nelim
freddo
2 hours ago
cofty
9
Evolution is a Fact #34 - Hiccups and Tadpoles
by cofty in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 12 hours ago
hiccups are a weird phenomena.

they are a combination of two involuntary actions - firstly a rapid inhalation of breath followed 35 milliseconds later by the glottis at the back of the throat suddenly closing off our airway.. our normal breathing is controlled by a "central pattern generator" in a small region of the brain stem close to the boundary with the spinal cord.

a signal is sent along the vagus and phrenic nerves resulting in a rhythmic contraction of muscles in chest, diaphragm and throat.. these nerves branch off right at the top of the spinal cord and follow a convoluted path through the chest cavity.

scary21
cofty
cofty
3 hours ago
raven
13
I need food for thought..
by raven in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 13 hours ago
hi friends,it has been 20 years that i've slaved for the wt and through out the past couple of years i could feel myself fighting an urge to accept that something was not right.

i fought it off for so long only for it to resurface frequently throughout my years of pioneering, assembly/convention parts, & speaking with people about the "truth", slaving and giving to try to be a "spiritual person" but in reality i was not spiritual because spirituality (according to the org) is doing all of the things they want you to do.

which then will label you as spiritual... no !!!

stuckinarut2
rebel8
berrygerry
7 hours ago
wifibandit
5
April 11, 2016 BOE Re: Literature Offers for September and October 2016
by wifibandit in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 14 hours ago
april 11, 2016 to all bodies of elders re: literature offers for september and october 2016. .

reminders for those assigned public talks s-141-e 4/16.

DesirousOfChange
humblepotato
Magwitch
13 hours ago
ttdtt
18
Update - Talk # 6 THE FLOOD OF NOAH’S DAY AND YOU
by ttdtt in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 a day ago
instead of scraping this talk they updated it.. so they still try and make this look like it happened, and that there is plenty of evidence.to do that they refer to the (w08 6/1 8) found at http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2008411the main evidence is that floods have happened in the past, including.... geologists studying the landscape of the northwestern united states believe that as many as 100 ancient catastrophic floods once washed over the area.

one such flood is said to have roared through the region with a wall of water 2,000 feet [600 m] high, traveling at 65 miles an hour [105 km/hr]—a flood of 500 cubic miles [2,000 cu km] of water, weighing more than two trillion tons.

similar findings have led other scientists to believe that a global flood is a distinct possibility.. i could not find such an event, except for remembering one of those "disaster" shows on discover about that.

OnTheWayOut
Finkelstein
Clearview
7 hours ago
defender of truth
4
Jehovah’s Witnesses’ lock down deal for $700M Brooklyn plot
by defender of truth in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 a day ago
the jehovah’s witnesses appear to have achieved a handshake with their bffs: jared kushner, aby rosen and lvwrk.. the pricing is roughly $700 million for the witnesses’ 733,000-square-foot world headquarters at 25-30 columbia heights and a 1.1-million-square-foot as-of-right development site at 85 jay st.. the same group purchased 1.2 million square feet in dumbo heights for $375 million in 2013 from the witnesses and are now leasing to such companies as wework and etsy.. tech outfits have been circling the brooklyn waterfront properties — and the large “watchtower” on the sign could someday be swapped for a name like “facebook.”.

bob knakal of cushman & wakefield has been running the sale for the witnesses, who are moving to warwick, ny.. multiple contracts were handed out for the properties and, so far, all are unsigned.. there has been interest globally, and local bidders have included l&l holding, east end capital, equity one and vornado realty trust.

when reached, the parties declined comment.. .

Finkelstein
LevelThePlayingField
blondie
15 hours ago
Hadriel
7
The Finished Mystery: 1917 Print
by Hadriel in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 2 days ago
anyone have a copy of this book?

i'll pay hard cash :).. i don't know if this is appropriate to post so if not feel free to can the post.. pm if you have a copy and would part with it..

dropoffyourkeylee
Hadriel
betterdaze
a day ago
wifibandit
10
May 2016 CLAM videos
by wifibandit in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 2 days ago
sample 1. sample 2. sample 3.

sir82
punkofnice
BluesBrother
14 hours ago
Watchtower-Free
4
Why calling Daesh/ ISIS a Mind Control Cult is of Strategic and Practical Importance -Steve Hassan  04/8/2016by Steven Hassan M.Ed, LMHC, NCC – 04/8/2016
by Watchtower-Free in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 2 days ago
by steven hassan m.ed, lmhc, ncc – 04/8/2016.

http://freedomofmind.com/blog/2016/04/10/why-calling-daesh-isis-a-mind-control-cult-is-of-strategic-and-practical-importance-by-steven-hassan-m-ed-lmhc-ncc-0482016/.

this morning, the new york times published an article entitled “radicalization of a belgium student turned bomb maker was invisible.” this piece, written by alissa j. rubin, details the conversion of 24-year-old najim laachraoui, one of the suicide bombers responsible for the attack of the belgium airport on march 22. rubin cites associates and family members of laachraoui, who all say that while he leaned toward a strict version of islam, and they did notice changes in his ideology and behavior, they never suspected he would be capable of such violent acts.

flipper
JWdaughter
freemindfade
2 days ago
stuckinarut2
10
The "apostacy stigmatisation" of doing research!
by stuckinarut2 in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 2 days ago
a thought occurred that the way the society has stigmatised the doing of external research by witnesses, and labelling any such questioning as "apostate", is tragic.. no doubt, in every other aspect of life, we research things before making decisions.

eg, if making a purchase, we go online and check reviews etc to check the product out.

we don't just trust the words of the marketing department.

stuckinarut2
Hadriel
Vidiot
a day ago
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Field service in Germany
by Ben131895 3 days ago 2 Replies latest 3 days ago   jw experiences
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Ben131895
Ben131895 3 days ago

I left the organization 34 years ago but are still interested how the developments are.
When I stopped working 13 years ago (I am Dutch) we moved to Germany, just across the border since houses were 50% cheaper than in Holland and the Germans are a more polite people. We live in a little town with 20.000 people.
In Holland we didn't see the witnesses too often, perhaps two times a year.
In Germany (at least in my little town) I have not seen the witnesses in all these 13 years. They are standing in the shopping center and most of the time also at the railway station with a trolly. Also, nothing in my post box.
Do the ex-JW's in Germany recognize, do they have the same experience?

 +1 / -0
prologos
prologos 3 days ago
Ben " "--the Germans are a more polite people, well, that is changing, many of the "new germans" are impolite, they do not ask ladies for permission any more.
 +0 / -1
TheOldHippie
TheOldHippie 3 days ago
I lived in Germany for a couple of years, and if the Germans are more polite than the Dutch, then I am very happy I have not lived in the Netherlands!

 

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Suppose I ought to introduce myself.....
by Andy Dufresne 3 days ago 21 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw friends
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Andy Dufresne
Andy Dufresne 3 days ago

Well: hello everybody. I've left a couple of semi-"humorous" remarks, but not yet said a proper hello....
But firstly THANK YOU, to all, for this site and all its comments.
I have been lurking on this site for 4-5 years, awake for 5-6 years and seriously fading for the last 4 years. I am now "out" and widely considered "out" by the congregation but due being very cautious and playing a very long game, (and having a wife who understand the repercussions of blowing the whistle on the few viewpoints I have discussed with her) I have not been DF'd of DA'd. This forum has been a crutch and guide as well as helping me wake - and the humour many on here use has been a welcome relief. (along with jwfacts and jwsurvey - like them or loath them they have helped me and that's the important thing.)
It has been a long and stressful journey, but one which was right for my circumstances. I am working through a long and on going depression which was made worse by realising TTATT as well as many other circumstances. However, it proved a good tool to get myself away from meetings and service....everything by degrees. So at least that illness had a bright side.
My departure has been gradual but definitive. I am never bothered by elders and get a rare "encouraging" call from a sweet old lady in the congregation. Old friends pass on "we miss you" messages via the wife, but they clearly don't miss so much that they've ever picked up a phone.
It's even been said when they learn I have objections but don't share them "well that's good / considerate as at least we can still talk to him in the street."
Just yesterday the PO gave 2 copies of the blood card to my wife, and when she said "Ok I'm pretty sure my Andy won't want one, but at least I'll have a spare",and the PO (she tells me) didn't even bat an eyelid. I am still cautious, but feel more free and more bold every day.
A little part of me wishes I'd had the courage to stand up and tell my former friends clearly TTATT, however the risk of losing my lovely (albeit blinded and stubborn!) wife & kids was too great. To counter this, I anti witness to non-JWs whenever appropriate, and using the "softly-softly" approach will often draw comparisons between JW & other cults when in conversation with friends & family I care for. I'm looking forward to anit-witnessing on a cart where they won't know me, some day.
While my wife is still very much in, and has told me that under no circumstances does she want to taste the "red pill", I have hope that my boy - who is a smart kid - will respond to the drips of TTATT I have been feeding him. The wife has agreed that if 13 is an appropriate age for kids to be encourage to be baptised, then it's an appropriate age for them to decide they DON'T want to be witnesses either, so in the next year or two I will be undertaking informal "anti-studies".
I don't worry too much about the propaganda my boy his getting until then, as I already know he thinks critically about it and doesn't believe lots of it. My other kid has special needs, so doesn't understand what he's taught anyway and could never make an adult decision or form a belief... I worry less about him in some ways.
I also count myself very fortunate in my long-game to not only have created a wide network of non-JW friends but also have reconnected with x-JW friends who were either DF'd or came to learn TTATT in their own right - including "John Free" on this site... our anonymity still preserved to everyone else, then! LOL.
And my forum name? Inspired by The Shawshank Redemption.... I'd like to think of myself like my namesake, taking the blows, biding my time, crawling through lots of 5h1t but hopefully leaving other inmates with a memory of someone who wasn't angry or mentally diseased.
At least I hope so.
That's it for now: be seeing you...
 +25 / -0
jhine
jhine 3 days ago

Hello Andy and welcome .
Jan
 
Je.suis.oisif
Je.suis.oisif 3 days ago
Hello Andy and welcome too. One of my top ten movies.
 +1 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 3 days ago
Welcome and is this the new blood card your wife was given ? If so can you post what it says on it thanks.
 +1 / -0
dothemath
dothemath 3 days ago

Hi and welcome! This site has been fascinating to me, and I think many on here study the bible more than most witnesses.
i personally think the "handwriting is on the wall" for the Borg but it will be a long decline.
congrats on the successful fade!
 +1 / -0
SpiritualGal08
SpiritualGal08 3 days ago
Welcome Andy. Patience is a virtue you have acquired. The best to you!
 +2 / -0
Mickey mouse
Mickey mouse 3 days ago
Hello and welcome. Get busy living!
 +2 / -0
JeffT
JeffT 3 days ago
Welcome, great screen name. I've always thought that movie is a good allegory for escaping the Watchtower.
 +1 / -0
OnTheWayOut
OnTheWayOut 3 days ago

Hello Andy.
We have much in common. I faded with no DA/DF actions taken and my wife is an active JW.
I used to get the "Sister Jones said hello, Brother Smith says he misses you" statements from my wife and I would say "They know my phone number hasn't changed, so they could have called." Heck, I waited outside the Kingdom Hall in the parking lot to pick my wife up a few times and the "friends" would see me and turn and pretend they didn't see me, then say at the next meeting to my wife, "Tell OTWO we miss him."
I have also wanted to say things to JW's about TTATT, but you are right- it's not worth risking the relationship you have. It's especially not worth it when those same JW's probably won't listen anyway.
So stick around if it helps. See you around the threads.
 +3 / -0
Phizzy
Phizzy 3 days ago

Welcome ! and thanks for sharing your encouraging story. I am sure you are going about things in absolutely the right way.
I can empathise with your story so much, I too was suffering from depression before I discovered TTATT. I too had a wife who was not only "in", but a born-in.
My depression was useful in getting the Hounds (Elders) to back off from this old Fox, as they actually virtually had me for Apostasy.
I am sure your bright 13 year old will soon pick up on reality, my youngest son did so at about the same age, deciding he could accept the Documentaries he watched on T.V that explained Evolution etc but could not swallow WT/JW Bull crap.
All the best for a great future, and I do hope your dear wife soon follows you and your son down the road to freedom !
 +1 / -0

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Suppose I ought to introduce myself.....
by Andy Dufresne 3 days ago 21 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw friends
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KiddingMe
KiddingMe 3 days ago
Welcome Andy! Congrats on your slow fade!
 +1 / -0
stephanie61092
stephanie61092 3 days ago
Love the username! Shawshank is one of my favorite movies ever!
 +2 / -0
JRK
JRK 3 days ago

Andy, welcome!
I will meet you in Mexico when I get out.
JK
 +6 / -0
Heaven
Heaven 3 days ago

Hey Andy, welcome. Love your username too. Many parallels in religion, jobs, life to the Shawshank Redemption. It is one of my all time fave movies.
Andy Dufresne: [in letter to Red] Remember Red, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies.
Red: I find I'm so excited, I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head. I think it's the excitement only a free man can feel, a free man at the start of a long journey whose conclusion is uncertain. I hope I can make it across the border. I hope to see my friend and shake his hand. I hope the Pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams. I hope.
Edited to add: Sorry, I meant to ask you, was there one thing that woke you up or a bunch of things and if so what are/were they?

 +2 / -0
freemindfade
freemindfade 3 days ago

Welcome, love your story
 
steve2
steve2 3 days ago

You have taken a nice, steady, respectful approach and it has "paid off" in your not being D/fd - but have you been "marked" as bad association? If not, it certainly shows the variations in elders' responses from congregation to congregation.
I've known Witnesses who have faded, not at all been questioning the organization, just lost interest and who have been marked as "bad associations".
I love your reference to giving an "anti-witness" to those who aren't witnesses. I've met a handful of people in recent months who either have Bible Studies with the Witnesses or who have them call regularly - and they have been very receptive to news media articles on the Australian Royal Commission of Inquiry that has included the jw organization.
It will be great to have your participation on the forum as and when you can.
 +2 / -0
naazira
naazira 2 days ago
Hi Andy! I'm Red! :grinning:
 +2 / -0
scary21
scary21 2 days ago

Welcome, great post!

 
Dagney
Dagney 2 days ago

Welcome Andy! You've done well so far. It's no easy journey but for some of us we do not have a choice no matter the difficulties.
It's great to have you here. Thank you for sharing your story. Many will read it and understand.
 +1 / -0
Diogenesister
Diogenesister 2 days ago

Hi Andy!!welcome!So hope your boy chooses life!oh, by the way..
Can ya do my tax returns for me?!
 +0 / -1

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Topic Summary
i've left a couple of semi-"humorous" remarks, but not yet said a proper hello....but firstly thank you, to all, for this site and all its comments.i have been lurking on this site for 4-5 years, awake for 5-6 years and seriously fading for the last 4 years.
i am now "out" and widely considered "out" by the congregation but due being very cautious and playing a very long game, (and having a wife who understand the repercussions of blowing the whistle on the few viewpoints i have discussed with her) i have not been df'd of da'd.
this forum has been a crutch and guide as well as helping me wake - and the humour many on here use has been a welcome relief.



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by FayeDunaway a month ago
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Suppose I ought to introduce myself.....
by Andy Dufresne 3 days ago 21 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw friends
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DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 2 days ago

Welcome.
It appears you've things handled well for your circumstances.
Don't give up hope on your wife. It took a bit longer for my wife to awaken, but we're fully on the same page now.
Good luck!
Doc

 +2 / -0
Andy Dufresne
Andy Dufresne 2 days ago

Thanks for the welcome everyone.
Diogenesister - I meant to LIKE your comment: accidently clicked dislike and now I can't change it. Can't promise to do you tax, but I will share a cold beer on a hot roof sometime. :wink:
In response:
Heaven - there wasn't 1 single thing that led
In the end it was a critical mass of several things... although my the "mouth hang open" moments were learning about (1) UN NGO status vs Malawi (2) the blatent quote mining about stauros in the reasoning book alongside (MAIN) critical reasoning about the whole flood myth. This was the nub, to be honest. The loose threads I pulled, after which everything started to unravel.
The irony was that in a shepherding call an elder actually commended me for doing independent research as I said I had found it reasonable that the size of the ark was comparable to some cargo containers today which bolstered the myth. He quoted the "keep on proving" scripture - so I did. Until I completely disproved it to myself... partly due to some threads on here and jwfacts. MOSTLY by doing general research/cross checking facts. It took a while for me to be convinced that you angry and mentally diseased types could be trusted. LOL
Steve2 - I am sure "unofficially" I've been marked, yes. With some Dubs, the conversation is more awkward & stilted than before. I had an elder who works in a neighbouring office but from a sister congregation react very strangely to my greeting recently - as if he didn't know whether to shun me or not. I took this as a win, since it appears if this is how I am considered it's making me less "accountable" to the congregation meaning I can be less secretive about associating with DF'd friends etc. For my wife's sake I don't rub her face in celebrating birthdays, xmas etc. The kids will get their gifts a days or two before or after with statements "so: this isn't for your birthday at all. In any way. What-so-ever. Nuh-uh. No way. At all. Not. For your birthday. Isn't." <WINK>
I don't get invited to "gatherings" any more, but would likely refuse anyway. I deliberately moved away from them, even removing JWs from my social media under the excuse of "it for business use". Took control.
I don't like crowds - I'm a "secret introvert" - and get drained by socialising. However, over the years I learned to "perform" and fake extroversion very well. I would endure conventions, meetings & parties as a means to fit in & conform.
I don't need to now: I live my social life on my terms now and am mentally healthier for it. I admin there are some friends I miss... but there comes a point where you have to look after yourself first.
I do hope to contribute to threads ad-hoc.... just expect random things here and there where I think I'm being funny. :wink:
See y'all round.


 

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Topic Summary
i've left a couple of semi-"humorous" remarks, but not yet said a proper hello....but firstly thank you, to all, for this site and all its comments.i have been lurking on this site for 4-5 years, awake for 5-6 years and seriously fading for the last 4 years.
i am now "out" and widely considered "out" by the congregation but due being very cautious and playing a very long game, (and having a wife who understand the repercussions of blowing the whistle on the few viewpoints i have discussed with her) i have not been df'd of da'd.
this forum has been a crutch and guide as well as helping me wake - and the humour many on here use has been a welcome relief.



Related Topics
A.proclaimer
1914, leap years, and sticky math situation
by A.proclaimer 4 months ago
Dunedain
Anybody remember those brothers that would harass, and hound the elders into making them, finally, appoint him as an elder himself?
by Dunedain a day ago
pale.emperor
Trying To Leave - Im Going Crazy
by pale.emperor 2 months ago
FayeDunaway
A Perfect World
by FayeDunaway a month ago
pale.emperor
The Curious Case Of Brother B
by pale.emperor 2 months ago



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msn.com: Losing my religion: life after extreme belief - EXPERIENCES OF 3 YOUNG PEOPLE
by AndersonsInfo 3 days ago 1 Replies latest 3 days ago   jw friends
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AndersonsInfo
AndersonsInfo 3 days ago

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/losing-my-religion-life-after-extreme-belief/ar-BBrzKJY?li=AAggNb9
Megan Phelps-Roper, 30, a former member of the Westboro Baptist Church
My first memories are of picketing ex-servicemen’s funerals and telling their families they were going to burn in hell. For us, it was a celebration. My gramps was the founder of the Westboro Baptist Church, so it wasn’t just our religion – it was our whole life. I don’t remember much before the picketing. I was allowed to mix with other kids early on, but over time my world shrank.
We believed it was a Good vs Evil situation: that the WBC was right and everybody else was wrong, so there was no questioning. It was a very public war we were waging against the “sinners”. I asked a lot of questions as I got older, but there’s a big difference in asking for clarification and actually questioning the beliefs you’re taught. READ MORE
Deborah Feldman, 29, ex-Satmar Hasidic Jew
Imad Iddine Habib, 26, ex-Salafi Muslim
READ MORE ABOUT THE EXPERIENCES OF ALL THREE OF THESE YOUNG PEOPLE:
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/losing-my-religion-life-after-extreme-belief/ar-BBrzKJY?li=AAggNb9
 +1 / -0
steve2
steve2 3 days ago

This is an excellent resource. It takes three different young people - a Christian, a Jew and a Muslim - who have each realized they do not believe the religion of their upbringing and have had to face being shunned by their respective religious communities, including their parents. It illustrates that the difficulties they face in adjusting to their post-religious life have more commonalities than differences. The theme of accepting that their upbringing would continue to impact on them came through very clearly.
It is an important point of discussion for those who leave jw organization to realize this type of shunning is used in other groups to control those who question and doubt.
 +1 / -0

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Help messy problem
by poopie 2 days ago 40 Replies latest a day ago   jw friends
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poopie
poopie 2 days ago
The problem is I have a baptized witness going out on service door to door giveing comments at kh who for the last 4 years has had sex with at least 10 prostitutes and regularly takes drugs ie speed the cong has no idea he's doing this he says he will never go to elders for fear his family will shun him if df so he continues I know because he tells me everything should I tell the elders or not.
 +1 / -1
cofty
cofty 2 days ago
No
 +8 / -0
OneEyedJoe
OneEyedJoe 2 days ago

Unless his behavior is directly hurting you, just leave him alone. Consenting adults and all that. Just my opinion
Edit: on second thought, even if his behavior is hurting you, there are better ways to handle it than going to cult elders. If you are being affected by his behavior, I'm sure many here (including myself) would be glad to help you find a solution.
 +6 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 2 days ago
The elders get to hide what they do why shouldn't he.
 +2 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 2 days ago

NO NO NO!! Its his life - elders have no rights to meddle into someone else's life.
If he is addicted and in trouble, try and get him help OUTSIDE the congregation which will do NOTHING to help.
 +7 / -0
Barrold Bonds
Barrold Bonds 2 days ago
i honestly have no idea if this is true or not. poopie is a little off his rocker.
 +4 / -0
dubstepped
dubstepped 2 days ago
Aren't you the guy that whines about shunning in every thread you start? Now you want to contribute to someone getting shunned? I'm starting to believe that poopie isn't for real, and my faith is shattered.
 +3 / -0
Joe Grundy
Joe Grundy 2 days ago

10 prostitutes - 'working girls' sounds better - in four years is fairly infrequent if it's on the basis of once each. Even if it's five times each, that's only about one jump a week. Quite normal, I would have thought and no problem if he can afford it. Probably better for him than going to KH once a week and may work out cheaper.
Drugs are a bigger problem and could cause harm - and be more expensive. That would cause me concern.
But not the business of anyone else, esp. JWs. What are they going to do, counsel him from their experience? Or find some Bronze Age writings which may apply?

 +4 / -0
Joe Grundy
Joe Grundy 2 days ago

PS: If it makes you feel better, think of the working girls as part-time 'concubines' and your associate as a would-be part-time 'Solomon'.
There, problem fixed.
His biggest problem is that he's a baptised dub. THAT'S what he should be working on.

 +5 / -0
Wild_Thing
Wild_Thing 2 days ago

Edited to erase my comment.
 +0 / -1

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Help messy problem
by poopie 2 days ago 40 Replies latest a day ago   jw friends
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James Mixon
James Mixon 2 days ago

Were there two witnesses present , let Jehovah handle it. But if it is true he will
fall in line with most JW's, a bunch hypocrites. If he keep that life style up don't
worry it will be obvious. What's done in the dark will come to light if you believe that...
 +1 / -0
Diogenesister
Diogenesister 2 days ago

Ha ha Joe...you sure you were never a dub??!!
Poopie...sure he's a hypocrite and all...but the old bills right..his real problem is speed. Talk to him privately and insist he speaks to his local addictions directorate, to be honest the girls are probably connected to the whole " self harm" thing he's got going on. He really needs PROFFESSIONAL HELP BIG TIME. BE A REAL MATE AND HELP HIM GET IT.
And forget the elders.
 
NeverKnew
NeverKnew 2 days ago

OMG...
poopie how old are you?
Is this Seriously a question?
Grow up. Mind your own business
 +4 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 2 days ago

.

Active JWs who know the WBT$ is about to rob Kingdom Hall bank accounts around the world..
Do Nothing to Warn their Fellow JWs......But..
Wonder if they should Report a Fellow JW,to the JW Elders/WBT$ Police..
For Drugs,Hookers..ECT..Ect..ect..

.
Image result for enquiring minds want to know....Image result for What is wrong with you people?.
 +3 / -0
poopie
poopie 2 days ago

True story I think there's more pros involved but I don't want to scare you.
He says he will never tell elders he wants to keep talking to his still in familey. So even if I tell the elders he said he will deny everything because of James 5:16 he confess to me.
 
poopie
poopie 2 days ago
Good advice
 
Joe Grundy
Joe Grundy 2 days ago

33 minutes ago

Diogenesister:

Ha ha Joe...you sure you were never a dub??!!
Poopie...sure he's a hypocrite and all...but the old bills right..his real problem is speed. Talk to him privately and insist he speaks to his local addictions directorate, to be honest the girls are probably connected to the whole " self harm" thing he's got going on. He really needs PROFFESSIONAL HELP BIG TIME. BE A REAL MATE AND HELP HIM GET IT.
And forget the elders
Yes, ma'am, I'm sure I never was a dub. Other things, and definitely was Old Bill. I may have a more liberal view towards working girls than many. I have lived in various places and known quite a few, not always professionally. (Both theirs and mine). I hate to see them disrespected = some conversations, pre-coital, post-coital and some with no coitus at all, have broken my heart (easily done).
Billy Whizz is no true friend to anybody. Trust me on this (though not from direct personal experience, just from dealing with many who took it too far).
If the OP is genuine, he'd do well to advise his 'friend' to save his money for working girls. A better high and you've got company..

 
just fine
just fine 2 days ago

Why would you tell the elders?
That makes no sense. It's his life to live however he chooses. It's not your secret to tell........
 +2 / -0
Joe Grundy
Joe Grundy 2 days ago

"a baptized witness going out on service door to door giveing comments at kh" (sic)
Is there an element of jealousy in OP's post?
(Re. the girls, not the speed).
I know what I'd rather be doing.

 
zeb
zeb 2 days ago

Have you seen him take the drugs? Have you seen him go to the prostitutes? or is he just saying this?
Anyone taking street drugs needs professional help which no elder on earth can provide.
 

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Topic Summary
the problem is i have a baptized witness going out on service door to door giveing comments at kh who for the last 4 years has had sex with at least 10 prostitutes and regularly takes drugs ie speed the cong has no idea he's doing this he says he will never go to elders for fear his family will shun him if df so he continues i know because he tells me everything should i tell the elders or not.



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Help messy problem
by poopie 2 days ago 40 Replies latest a day ago   jw friends
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poopie
poopie 2 days ago
Maybe he's just makeing it all up in his head the only thing that I actually saw was him drinking 60 beers in one night. And a bunch of used condoms does that count
 
Joe Grundy
Joe Grundy 2 days ago
If he's saving his used condoms for 4 years, that;s a bit OCD and would cause concern, and I see what you mean by 'messy problem'.

 
Barrold Bonds
Barrold Bonds 2 days ago
60 beers? assuming they are 12oz cans that's over 5.5 gallons. no fuckin way
 +1 / -0
poopie
poopie 2 days ago
Yes way his liver probably pickeled
 
poopie
poopie 2 days ago
8oz cans to be correct
 
poopie
poopie 2 days ago
This was all in his hotel room
 
poopie
poopie 2 days ago
Housekeeper cleans once every 2 days
 
poopie
poopie 2 days ago

Oh by the way he's been arrested 8 times 2duis.has never had a dl ever. Before baptism 2 cars taken by police after baptism 4 cars taken. Wait there's more.
 
Joe Grundy
Joe Grundy 2 days ago

He's obviously a busy man.
When does he get time for the working girls? Especially if he has to slot them in (so to speak) between drinking beer? Which as all men know causes brewer's droop?
Brewer's droop in itself is a good argument against Intelligent Design. Drink enough beer to overcome inhibitions and find a girl, then get the droop. What deity designed that? Not a benevolent one, that's for sure. But wait! What about Lot? Well, he obviously wasn't normal (quite apart from his grief over his salty wife -who would have guessed that would happen?) but he was able to incestuously copulate with his daughters over a couple of days while blotto.
Not quite sure what moral to take from that story. Be a good man and you don't get the droop? Be a good man and copulate with your daughters (the ones the townspeople didn't want)?
Maybe I need to go to a KH with these questions.

 
Lostwun
Lostwun 2 days ago

Looks like poopie made a Shipoopi!!!https://m.
 

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Topic Summary
the problem is i have a baptized witness going out on service door to door giveing comments at kh who for the last 4 years has had sex with at least 10 prostitutes and regularly takes drugs ie speed the cong has no idea he's doing this he says he will never go to elders for fear his family will shun him if df so he continues i know because he tells me everything should i tell the elders or not.



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by new boy 15 days ago
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by Lostandfound 3 months ago



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Help messy problem
by poopie 2 days ago 40 Replies latest a day ago   jw friends
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Daniel1555
Daniel1555 2 days ago

Poopie, you are already mentally out... you know that WT rules, especially shunning is cruel and against human rights.
So why would you want to solve this problem the WT way?
If you told the elders, you would be supporting WT provisions. Wouldn't that be a little hypocritical.
OK, you don't like and you don't find it OK for this man to go to prostitutes and taking drugs.
So talk to him in private about it and tell him why you find he should change his behaviour. Show him some ideas how he can stop with the drugs, maybe special therapy.
But don't hound the elders on him.
And 60 cans of beer in one night. This guy had to pee a lot that night. Maybe he had a party with the 10 prostitutes (did you count them). According to my math skills everyone would have been drinking a little less than 6 beers, which would sound more realistic :wink:
 +1 / -0
sherrie11
sherrie11 2 days ago


Is he having a laugh
 
punkofnice
punkofnice 2 days ago

Poopie. It sounds to me like you're still under the mind control of the JW cult and think the elders are important men in this world. I believe that a person's life is f*ck all to do with the elders in any cult, unless that person is hurting others.
Proper authorites need to be informed or help sought from them. Cults have NO authority in the real world.
 +1 / -0
babygirl30
babygirl30 2 days ago

This story sounds so utterly made up, that I am shocked at the serious responses...lol.
Call me a cynic or just a hardcore East Coast chick...but I call BS on this story. FOH!!!!!!
 +6 / -0
sherrie11
sherrie11 2 days ago
Poopie is having a laugh at us
 +3 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 2 days ago
60 beers in one night? Oh come on "poopie"... Are you an idiot?
 +2 / -0
TTWSYF
TTWSYF 2 days ago

YEAH, Family Guy
GO PATS!!!
As far as the OP? Yes, put your 2 cents in on other people's business. That's always a good path to take. Give'em hell and YOU make it right
 
Billzfan23
Billzfan23 2 days ago

Let him live....
 
JWdaughter
JWdaughter 2 days ago
The guys name is poopie. Seriously, people! I am notoriously gullible and even I dismiss what that guy says. His name is a clue, he's full of it!
 +1 / -0
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 2 days ago
Yes, poopie enjoys peeing in our pockets with non-sensical one word one sentence posts.
 

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Topic Summary
the problem is i have a baptized witness going out on service door to door giveing comments at kh who for the last 4 years has had sex with at least 10 prostitutes and regularly takes drugs ie speed the cong has no idea he's doing this he says he will never go to elders for fear his family will shun him if df so he continues i know because he tells me everything should i tell the elders or not.



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1914, leap years, and sticky math situation
by A.proclaimer 4 months ago
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Anybody remember those brothers that would harass, and hound the elders into making them, finally, appoint him as an elder himself?
by Dunedain a day ago
Leela1
Closer/death/Funerals
by Leela1 a month ago
new boy
Chapter 2 of the Novel "New Boy"
by new boy 15 days ago
Lostandfound
...and other Animals 2
by Lostandfound 3 months ago



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Help messy problem
by poopie 2 days ago 40 Replies latest a day ago   jw friends
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Wild_Thing
Wild_Thing a day ago

Does anyone else have a hard time carrying on a conversation with someone named "poopie"?
I don't mean to judge, but was your first choice for a username already taken, or what?
 +0 / -1

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Topic Summary
the problem is i have a baptized witness going out on service door to door giveing comments at kh who for the last 4 years has had sex with at least 10 prostitutes and regularly takes drugs ie speed the cong has no idea he's doing this he says he will never go to elders for fear his family will shun him if df so he continues i know because he tells me everything should i tell the elders or not.



Related Topics
A.proclaimer
1914, leap years, and sticky math situation
by A.proclaimer 4 months ago
Dunedain
Anybody remember those brothers that would harass, and hound the elders into making them, finally, appoint him as an elder himself?
by Dunedain a day ago
Leela1
Closer/death/Funerals
by Leela1 a month ago
new boy
Chapter 2 of the Novel "New Boy"
by new boy 15 days ago
Lostandfound
...and other Animals 2
by Lostandfound 3 months ago



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ARE THERE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN ITALIAN, GERMAN AND AMERICAN ( or Anglosaxon countries) JWS ?
by roberto avon 2 days ago 0 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw experiences
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roberto avon
roberto avon 2 days ago

Reading many of the posts on this and on other sites I came to this conclusion. My experiences living among Jws are;
- my brothers in law are and were entrepeneurs since 25 years working very hard and earning good money. So they are quite wealthy
- they bought nice houses and big cars and go on holiday around the world
- we had in our family two dfshipments but there was no shunning
- their children had the opportunity to study and for the moment not all became jdubs.
- they have an acceptable relationship with the part of non jw family
Is this tipically " Italian "? or is it just the part of Jws of which we never speak
 

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Australia Branch to end magazine printing
by no-zombie 2 days ago 44 Replies latest 10 hours ago   jw friends
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no-zombie
no-zombie 2 days ago
Just one week from the Zone Overseer's visit is the announcement that the magazine production by the Australia Branch will end in a few months. The task being transferred to the Japan Branch. While I'm not 100% certain, I understand that this effectively ends all major printing bar perhaps tracts, handbills and other loose items.

 +14 / -0
jookbeard
jookbeard 2 days ago
amazing if true and would surely be the end of the Australian branch, so Japan would feed all of South East Asia and Australasia ,Selters to feed all of Europe and that just leaves Africa where I dont know where the printing is done, is there a large branch in The Congo? Mexico feeds all of South America I suppose?
 +5 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 2 days ago
Maybe minimizing their footprint as a protection against any legal action in the future.
 +8 / -0
konceptual99
konceptual99 2 days ago
Downsize and sell assets now, move the money abroad and minimise funds available for any potential forced restitution as a result of the ARC.
 +14 / -0
freddo
freddo 2 days ago

TO ALL CONGREGATIONS
Dear Brothers,
Re: Wonderful adjustments in Australia Branch!
Due to continuing world wide expansion Jehovah's organization is recruiting bethelites in Australia. We particularly need lawyers and legal executives who specialise in "defending the good news" against "professed" victims of abuse and we have ready-made facilities to accommodate them.
How happifying that these accommodations are becoming available at just the right time due to dozens of full-time servants accepting assignments to the field as regular pioneers as the work speeds up deep in the time of the end!
One pair assigned to Oombawoomba in Northern Territory were overwhelmed! Brothers Toole and Tokley could not hold back tears of joy at their exciting new assignment.
Furthermore this self-sacrificing attitude means we are able to announce the building by the LDC of a brand new translation office to facilitate an aboriginal language translation office in Alice Springs! This will be headed by a very experienced brother who is so thrilled at his new assignment. Brother Terrence O'Brien said he was determined to help the aboriginal people learn of our grand creator and His promises about to be realised soon, very soon!
This office will have a traditional "outside dunny" and several rooms underneath an aboriginal hessian sheet and tin roof. We already have brothers to help build this facility and of course your donations will be used wisely.
You have been very generous; but did you know you can now donate via jwdotorgasm? Why not try out his new provision at your next family worship evening?
Please be assured of our warm Christian love and best wishes,
Your brothers,
CCoJW's
---
PS to Bodies of Elders
Please read this letter to the congregation at your next CLAM meeting.
If brothers request clarification do not engage in any negative talk about the Australian Royal Commission whatsoever. Rather encourage them to prayerfully consider what they can personally give to support kingdom interests (Acts 20:35) by way of a modest donation.
This postscript should neither be read to the congregation nor be posted on the noticeboard.
 +12 / -1
Lostandfound
Lostandfound 2 days ago

And more loyal bethelites to be"reassigned" or as it called in thecoldworld of reality, sacked, without any help or assistance, are any signe emerging in the world of discontented ex bethelites hitting the cold hard streets? Congregations rejoicing at the inflow of effective beggars who must be in shock at their changed circumstances.
Are the GB afraid to walk a factory floor, if there are many left, or do the "helpers" take the flack
Britain zone visit this month, obvious what is coming, any buyers for land at Chelmsford??
 +5 / -0
PaintedToeNail
PaintedToeNail 2 days ago

The postscript is amazing! Don't engage in negative talk about the ARC, just encourge them to donate more money. Typical.
 +2 / -0
PaintedToeNail
PaintedToeNail 2 days ago

duplicate post
 
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 2 days ago

Those poor people who don't have access to the inter-net or a computer, aren't gong to be able to read life saving information from his exclusively chosen earthly publishing house the WTS.

Maybe Jah doesn't want financially poor people into his soon to come earthly paradise ?

 +1 / -0
konceptual99
konceptual99 2 days ago
It is a spoof letter @ptn
 +2 / -0

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Australia Branch to end magazine printing
by no-zombie 2 days ago 44 Replies latest 10 hours ago   jw friends
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steve2
steve2 2 days ago

PaintedToeNail, the letter is an obvious spoof..
 +2 / -0
TheLiberator
TheLiberator 2 days ago

Someone made a comment about this in this article. Just scroll down in the comment section.
:pensive:/www.the-newshub.com/general/are-jehovahs-witness-a-religious-ponzi-scheme

 
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 2 days ago

I know its a spoof but it isn't in some countries.

 +0 / -1
TheOldHippie
TheOldHippie 2 days ago

"is there a large branch in The Congo? "
Ever heard of the Republic of South Africa?
 
wifibandit
wifibandit 2 days ago
Can anyone provide an Actual letter? PDF?
 
Vanderhoven7
Vanderhoven7 2 days ago
Yes, a PDF if possible
 
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 2 days ago

A its spoof guys, ie. fake satire .

 +1 / -0
wifibandit
wifibandit 2 days ago
I understand that freddo was kidding. I was requesting confirmation of OP's comments.
 +2 / -0
redpilltwice
redpilltwice 2 days ago

You can't loose what you no longer have.
 
Londo111
Londo111 2 days ago

If the Australian branch is closed before ARC is ready to revisit them, I wonder how the redress would be done. Who would pay?
 +3 / -0

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Topic Summary
just one week from the zone overseer's visit is the announcement that the magazine production by the australia branch will end in a few months.
the task being transferred to the japan branch.
while i'm not 100% certain, i understand that this effectively ends all major printing bar perhaps tracts, handbills and other loose items.



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Australia Branch to end magazine printing
by no-zombie 2 days ago 44 Replies latest 10 hours ago   jw friends
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respectful_observer
respectful_observer 2 days ago

Downsize and sell assets now, move the money abroad and minimise funds available for any potential forced restitution as a result of the ARC.
Good point. Isn't what they did in France years back during their tax case?
 +1 / -0
Pete Zahut
Pete Zahut 2 days ago

Quick....stop the presses and sell the Branch before the Australian Government seizes our assets over the pedophile scandal !!
 +3 / -0
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 2 days ago

Yeah, saw this coming.
The message from "Mother" would go something like
Dear Australia Branch
You naughty naughty boys down under, have royally screwed up and made us look stupid in the process so as a consequence we need a "head on a plate" to show the world we care about children.
We were planning on pulling the plug down there anyway but on consideration we decided it would look better to wait until after the ARC. That way the brothers and the aussie press will blame you for the problem and conclude it's your mishandling of child abuse cases rather than our policies that are the problem.
Suffer in your jocks, we all need discipline from Jehovah... bwahahahahaha
Your brothers
GB
 +2 / -0
defender of truth
defender of truth 2 days ago

This is not necessarily to do with the ARC.
Allegedly, a similar thing is happening in India.
www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6023413583839232/no-more-printing-wt-awake-my-country-shit-just-got-real

 
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 2 days ago
Yes, I'd say they were planning on pulling the plug down there any way.
 
freddo
freddo 2 days ago

Sorry if my "letter" deflected from the excellent informative first post.
@ defender of truth
Quite right. I also guess they are very nervous in London at the moment what with the gruesome twosome GB helpers of Kikot and Flodin to visit in a week or two ...
Printing going to Selters and even more layoffs is the worry ...
 +1 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 2 days ago

Apparently Jah just wants his life saving message spread about electronically through the very cheap and labuor reducing inter-net.

He's such a money scrooging Chesapeake

Why his chariot slowing down like this must be to the fact his chosen earthly publishing house has been lying for so long, it simply ran out of lies to create and propagate.

 +1 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 a day ago

In the past, the society blew trumpets of pride exclaiming that "all the expansion was proof of Jehovah's blessing" on the work etc!
Now what do they say when things wind down??
Oh, That is "ALSO proof of Jehovah's blessing"
Contradictory??
 +2 / -0
pepperheart
pepperheart a day ago
so even more reason for those that live in oz and uk to start taking teaching books and magazines etc from carts and trashing them having to pay extra transport costs of 100 and 1000s of miles will help to dry the borgs money chest up

 +4 / -1
fulltimestudent
fulltimestudent a day ago

I'm thinking back to the time when the branch office at Ingleburn was built. I think it was after 1975 and it probably distracted us from thinking too much (then) about Freddy's date fiasco.
It was built by witnesses with a lot of kerfuffle. John Wilson (a nice guy) wanted his room built a special way. As I recall it, he was told he couldn't do that. A friend who came from the commercial construction field went to work there, and ended up calling it 'the funny farm.' (a colloquialism for a mental hospital).
All that work, all that time, and they'll likely sell the place. Suburbia has crept around the area (havn't been out that way for years),
But here's what it looks like. so much land, because they also had a farm there..
Branch of Jehovah's Witnesses in Australia - City of Liverpool, Sydney, NSW

 

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Topic Summary
just one week from the zone overseer's visit is the announcement that the magazine production by the australia branch will end in a few months.
the task being transferred to the japan branch.
while i'm not 100% certain, i understand that this effectively ends all major printing bar perhaps tracts, handbills and other loose items.



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C0ntr013r
Letter from Watchtower Australia to Governing Body (Watchtower Pennsylvania) regarding disclosure of information to secular authorities.
by C0ntr013r 9 months ago



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Australia Branch to end magazine printing
by no-zombie 2 days ago 44 Replies latest 10 hours ago   jw friends
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steve2
steve2 a day ago

Um, where is it mentioned that the Australian branch will close?
 
shepherdless
shepherdless a day ago

This makes no sense. Japan is too far away from Australia, NZ etc. It will cost more to ship magazines than to print them. If Watchtower really wanted to save money, it could just outsource the printing in Australia to a commercial printer.



I don't believe it is to avoid payments related to ARC, either.



I suspect the explanation is one of the following:
(1) Some clown in Brooklyn thought it would be a good idea, without researching it, and given the Borg's inability to tolerate internal dissent, nobody pointed out it would cost more, not less.
(2) Watchtower wants to sell some of its better real estate in Sydney, and this is a preliminary step.
(3) It is not true.



I guess time will tell.
 +1 / -0
konceptual99
konceptual99 a day ago

So in the absence of any 100% confirmation I am still happy to accept this has the "ring of truth" about it. The model is being implemented elsewhere in the world with the SA and DE branches becoming the super branch for their continental regions.
Printing the mags in Japan maybe cheaper as I expect the number of mags needed in OZ/NZ has dropped considerably due to the use of online materials and the reduction in issue numbers. Don't forget as well that the Japan branch would be looking after the rest of the region so you get economies of scale.
Real estate in Australia, especially Sydney, has rocketed in value over the past 10 years and the opportunity to cash in on this has never been better. A smaller branch with less overheads again fits with the recent changes elsewhere. No where has anyone said the branch is actually closing.
I accept that the risk presented by the ARC is probably not the only reason this move might have been considered but I would not be so sure this is not an influencing factor. Australia has been the most high profile investigation into child abuse anywhere so far and the WTS did not look good. I think restitution for victims is a real possibility and although the WTS is a master in prolonging legal matters, I don't think they could afford to be seen to be highly resistive to this for a long time. There is also the impact on the local Witnesses to consider. Finally this could spark some serious questions about the tax status of the WTS in Australia.
Whilst all of this is a long time off in terms of legal requirements, the WTS were very quick to act when in dispute with the French authorities over tax. They shifted everything virtually overnight to the UK. We also see large amounts of money going between branches already. I spoke to a sister back in December who worked until the middle of last year in the accounts department in NY and she was quite open about the way the organisation moves funds between all sorts of organisations to reduce legal exposure.
Time will tell on the precise details but I see nothing in the premise of the OP that would be out of harmony with anything else that is going on in JW land.
 +1 / -0
ZAPPA-ESQUE
ZAPPA-ESQUE a day ago
All [most] of Sub-Saharan Africa is serviced from Johannesburg South Africa - its a huge Bethel .
 +1 / -0
no-zombie
no-zombie a day ago
If anyone doubts what I wrote from the outset, all they will have to do is go to their Christian Life and Ministry meeting for this week and hear the letter for themselves during the announcements.

 +1 / -0
freddo
freddo a day ago

This is simply another manifestation of a worldwide phenomenon.
Less magazines need printing. Very few donate to cover the literature taken anyway.
It is that simple. So the "printing branches" can be fewer and farther between. I mean a cheap tablet that can take jwonline library and be rolled out to the masses is now £100.
Think about Australia's geographical position. Who is going to take literature and donate for it? Little old jw ladies in Oz and NZ and that's it.
Indonesia is Muslim and poor, Philippines is poor and ripe for tablets over hard copy (and close enough to Japan). South East Asia make all the tablets anyway!
All they need now is a printing branch per continent.
My money is eventually on:
USA/CANADA for North America
MEXICO for everything south including South America (Maybe Brazil for a while?)
GERMANY for Europe, North Africa and the Middle East
JAPAN for Asia (India, China, Indo-China and the Pacific
SOUTH AFRICA for Africa below the Sahara


 +1 / -0
shepherdless
shepherdless a day ago

It has the "ring of truth" about it for me, as well. In fact, I want it to be true.
I want it to be true, because I see it as a mistake. konceptual and freddo make good points. And they probably reflect Watchtower thinking. However:
(1) Watchtower will have to keep printing its rags for its field work, etc. Printing half as much paper doesn't halve the costs. I just can't see JW's going door-to-door with a tablet in their hand, and even if they do, they will still have to leave something behind with the householder to make it worthwhile. Also, what are they going to stack their trolleys with? So JW's in Aust (and NZ) will still need lots of printed material.
(2) Yes, nobody will donate for their rags in this day and age (and that is why I said their business model is broken, in a thread some months ago), but they have to keep producing them for their style of preaching. There is no real halfway option.
(3) It is one thing to have one printing branch in, say, Europe or North America, where you could distribute by road or rail around the whole continent. Asia and Oceania combined is huge. For Australia, they would have to airfreight the printed material from Japan to Australia, over a distance much greater than between London and New York. If each Australian publisher were to need even just 20 Watchtowers/Awakes per month, my rough calculation is that would amount to 100 tonnes of airfreight per month. That is nearly a full Boeing 747 freighter per month, flying a third of the way around the world, just to supply Australia, alone.



So I am not disagreeing with anyone. I just think that it will prove to be a mistake by Watchtower.
 
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 a day ago

Well the fact is that the branch is already only half filled now, with several residence buildings not even being used!
The land is huge, and not used for farming or anything else, so it's sitting there wasting away.
The real estate developers are building all around that area, and it would be bought in a flash by a developer...
All they need is an administrative office nowadays....
 +2 / -0
steve2
steve2 15 hours ago
Air freight be damned. In a perfect world, the magazines would be printed in heaven and delivered to each congregation by angels.
 +1 / -0
freddo
freddo 13 hours ago

@steve2
What you describe is a kind of air freight isn't it?
 +2 / -0

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Topic Summary
just one week from the zone overseer's visit is the announcement that the magazine production by the australia branch will end in a few months.
the task being transferred to the japan branch.
while i'm not 100% certain, i understand that this effectively ends all major printing bar perhaps tracts, handbills and other loose items.



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Google.ca search bar 'royal commission'
by Esse quam videri 8 months ago
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"The Calendar of Jehovah God" - a historical tidbit
by OrphanCrow 5 months ago
maksutov
Watchtower Society Recalls Demon-infested Literature
by maksutov 10 months ago
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"Friends" are confused who and where they should be donating!
by thedepressedsoul 10 months ago
C0ntr013r
Letter from Watchtower Australia to Governing Body (Watchtower Pennsylvania) regarding disclosure of information to secular authorities.
by C0ntr013r 9 months ago



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Australia Branch to end magazine printing
by no-zombie 2 days ago 44 Replies latest 11 hours ago   jw friends
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Designer Stubble
Designer Stubble 13 hours ago
Perhaps for now they are consolidating printing into Japan...next step will be to bring printing back to an absolute minimum. Could be that magazines first go digital only and books can be sea freighted. Next these go digital only too. Time will tell....
 
jonahstourguide
jonahstourguide 12 hours ago

Yes NO ZOMBIE,,,,
It was confirmed to me by the co yesterday that the letter will be read out this week.
The line of reasoning given to me was that the Japanese presses are much more
modern and much more efficient than the old Aussie presses. He reminded me that
all books for Australia are currently being printed in Japan. And yes more bethelites will get the sack.
jtg
 
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 12 hours ago

Very soon there will be no one left there...except the branch committee and a handful of old ones in the medical area!
And yet they just spent millions over the last few years renovating and expanding the bethel!
 
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 12 hours ago

Going.......going........😂
 
pepperheart
pepperheart 11 hours ago
I think the trolleys will do just fine for magazines etc since jan this year they have been using undated magazines that could be used in 5 or 10 years time and on the trolleys i have contact with they are full with lots of 10 year old teaching books and they are really PUSHING the web so that you dont need to take any printed info and of course they could print loads of tracts these next few months.on lots of trolleys they even put the teaching books in little plastic sealed food bags to keep them dry etc

 

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Topic Summary
just one week from the zone overseer's visit is the announcement that the magazine production by the australia branch will end in a few months.
the task being transferred to the japan branch.
while i'm not 100% certain, i understand that this effectively ends all major printing bar perhaps tracts, handbills and other loose items.



Related Topics
Esse quam videri
Google.ca search bar 'royal commission'
by Esse quam videri 8 months ago
OrphanCrow
"The Calendar of Jehovah God" - a historical tidbit
by OrphanCrow 5 months ago
maksutov
Watchtower Society Recalls Demon-infested Literature
by maksutov 10 months ago
thedepressedsoul
"Friends" are confused who and where they should be donating!
by thedepressedsoul 10 months ago
C0ntr013r
Letter from Watchtower Australia to Governing Body (Watchtower Pennsylvania) regarding disclosure of information to secular authorities.
by C0ntr013r 9 months ago



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My 14-year-old niece is being disfellowshipped
by keyser soze 2 days ago 47 Replies latest 7 hours ago   jw friends
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keyser soze
keyser soze 2 days ago

I was contacted by my ex sister-in-law yesterday. She asked me if I wanted to spend some time with my niece, while she went to her sister's baby shower. It turns out my niece can't go because she's about to be disfellowshipped at the ripe old age of 14.
It just boggles my mind that they can treat someone who's still just a child in such a way. It was so cute, and precious, when she was an unbaptized publisher at 10, and baptized at 11. Then puberty and teen angst came along, and it wasn't so cute and precious anymore. The worst part is that she's acting out because her mom went out of her way to make sure her dad(my brother) couldn't have a relationship with her, and now she misses having her dad around.
I know it's been said many times on this forum, but I really hate this fucking cult!
 +63 / -0
wifibandit
wifibandit 2 days ago

Wow. Just at the age when social connection and peers mean the world to you.
 +18 / -0
freemindfade
freemindfade 2 days ago

So they remove the father from the equation, then eventually social "execute" her?
Sickening. I'm very sorry for her.
 +19 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 2 days ago

Sorry keyser - it really is just horrible.
Wait I got an idea! - let's practically force little kids to live by a set of rules they have no idea about, are not mentally ready to process or understand, and then lets punish them harshly when the act on normal feelings a few years later!
Oh darn, the WT beat me to it.
 +16 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 2 days ago

Have to agree on to the discriminatory way the WTS treats and exploits young vulnerable teens.

If they aren't instilling fear inducing lies to create their own public literature distributors they are telling them that the world is going to end soon and all their non-jws are going to die soon.

Morally sicken one might say.
 +5 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 2 days ago


It turns out my niece can't go because she's about to be disfellowshipped at the ripe old age of 14. It just boggles my mind that they can treat someone who's still just a child in such a way.
............................../.... Jehovah`s Witness Cult..

Image result for heartless bastards club
/////
 +16 / -0
NVR2L8
NVR2L8 2 days ago
Sorry to hear such sad news. The cult cuts off kids from the real world and now this child will be cut off from the cult! How can anyone survive such cruel isolation? This is psychological child abuse.
 +13 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 2 days ago

This is the end of the vast majority of those who are baptized young. Now all will turn their back thus causing major psychological damage.
As much as the WTBTS tries to decipher biblical facts, they sure have not understood that perhaps the reason why JC got baptized at such a mature age was to make absolutely sure he knew what he was getting into willfully.
Then he proceeded to instruct in the Bible to follow on his footsteps. Does the WTBTS follow his example in this regard?! Of course not, they only care about their membership numbers.
My heart aches for all our young disfellowshipped.
Shame on the WTBTS and all parents who allow this to happen.😔
DY
 +18 / -0
KiddingMe
KiddingMe 2 days ago

This really saddens me.
Hopefully your brother can use this as an opportunity to bond and support your neice. Maybe she will start to see this religion for what it really is.
 +7 / -0
helpmeout
helpmeout 2 days ago
This is one of the most despicable things about this cult. My 16 year old daughter was not baptized. The elders have been total assholes. They have tried to bully and cajole my wife and me. The have interfered with our family and caused much needless stress and anxiety. The good news is that my wife is slowly waking up to the truth about this destructive cult. My daughter has decided that she wants nothing to do with it. I can just imagine the pressure and bullying we would have to endure if these idiot men had the power to disfellowship my daughter. As it stands, they have only the power we allow them. They systematically use disfellowshipping to emotionally blackmail old and young alike. However, in the case of young people, this is especially reprehensible. I was a born in and am slowly trying to extricate myself from this harmful cult while trying to keep my family in tact. I applaud others in similar circumstances and wish you all the best.
 +20 / -0

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My 14-year-old niece is being disfellowshipped
by keyser soze 2 days ago 47 Replies latest 7 hours ago   jw friends
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faithnomore
faithnomore 2 days ago
Hopefully you can continue to support her buy showing love and kindness even if your still in. You will never regret it and as long as you don't advertise it you should be fine.
 +7 / -1
Village Idiot
Village Idiot 2 days ago
Pathetic. I hope she's no longer going to the meetings, it would only intensify the humiliation.

 +5 / -0
stan livedeath
stan livedeath 2 days ago
Hi KS--good to see you posting again--even though its a sore subject.
 +3 / -0
wannaexit
wannaexit 2 days ago
Oh how sad!

 +2 / -0
jookbeard
jookbeard 2 days ago
absolute heartless lunacy , hope she is supported and gets through it, no 14 year old should have to deal with such life changing issues like this
 +6 / -0
BluesBrother
BluesBrother 2 days ago

My heart goes out to your family at this time.......don't they know that boys will be boys and girls will be girls?....No, I guess they don't know .
It just goes to show the utter insanity of this present crop of G B members and their reforming policies. Back in the day, some time in the Seventies a parent approached our wise old P/Overseer saying that her early teen daughter wanted to be baptized. He commended her warmly but told the parent that any normal teenage shenanigans could lead to D/f... He told them to put it off .
They don't have overseers like that any more
 +11 / -1
keyser soze
keyser soze 2 days ago

Hopefully your brother can use this as an opportunity to bond and support your neice.
Unfortunately, he moved out of state after she took the kids half way across the country, and he lost his job. In fact, that was her initial reason for contacting me, to find out how to get a hold of him. They are in communication now, so we'll see what happens.
Hopefully you can continue to support her buy showing love and kindness even if your still in.
I've been out, myself, for over ten years. As much as I would like to be able to tell her it's all bs, I'm just happy to spend whatever time with her I can.
Hi KS--good to see you posting again--even though its a sore subject.
I still check in from time to time, but I'm trying to distance myself from anything JW related as much as possible. Occasionally, such as now, I need to come on here and vent.
 +9 / -1
keyser soze
keyser soze 2 days ago

Pathetic. I hope she's no longer going to the meetings, it would only intensify the humiliation.
They moved back home, with her uber-zealous parents. Her mom is in the process of getting a place, but even then my niece is stuck going to the meetings. It's going to get worse before it gets better.
 +3 / -1
JW GoneBad
JW GoneBad 2 days ago

14 years old and getting disfellowshipped, then being shunned!
If there is a God...if you're out there somewhere...do something...damn-it!
This is sad and sick behavior on the part of the WTBTS!
 +6 / -0
label licker
label licker 2 days ago
Keyser, this is so so sad. Be there for her. I have a niece that got df'd at sixteen and she is almost forty now. Her parents haven't spoken once to her in that time. She has a sister who just got df'd. She is pregnant and living with a guy and has just him for her friend. She can't even call her mother if she has questions concerning health issues that might run in the family. They are both really nice girls but really messed up when it comes to trusting anyone or having relationships. The one girl had broken down in the middle of Toronto with her car and she couldn't even call a family member for help. Had it not been for a kind taxi driver that paid for her motel room and got her to where she would be safe, this org would have been blood guilty had anything happened to her. She was terrified. Again, I say this, let her know you will always be there for her anytime of night or day.
 +9 / -0

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Topic Summary
i was contacted by my ex sister-in-law yesterday.
she asked me if i wanted to spend some time with my niece, while she went to her sister's baby shower.
it turns out my niece can't go because she's about to be disfellowshipped at the ripe old age of 14. .



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My 14-year-old niece is being disfellowshipped
by keyser soze 2 days ago 47 Replies latest 7 hours ago   jw friends
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Nathan Natas
Nathan Natas 2 days ago

Excellent, congratulations! The first step in becoming an XJW (and getting your life back) is baptism.
Let's hope her future is one of self-realization, fulfillment, achievement & joy.
 
contramundum
contramundum 2 days ago

How sad.
My daughter wanted to become a publisher and work towards baptism around age 9 or 10. I thought she was too young and not mature enough to realise the implications. I am so glad she didn't persevere. She too went through a tough time from age 14 and would have been df'd.
If that had happened, I would have felt severe pressure to abandon her when she needed me most. WT practice of shunning, especially regarding young people is very cruel




 +4 / -0
westiebilly11
westiebilly11 2 days ago
What is disgusting and wrong is that a 14 year old can enter into such an unfair contract without any impartial independent advice. She's virtually being bullied and emotionally hurt because she drifted into becoming a baptised witness. To be cut off from friends and family is verging on emotional abuse, child abuse....As for her parents, this just confirms prophecy...'having no natural affection'... Have they and others thought of the possible consequences of this on a young girl of 14? Are they willing to comply with this shunning nonsense and abandon her to misery and possible self harm (or worse..) etc etc? .This is wrong. Just plain wrong. Unacceptable.

 +6 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 2 days ago
reminds me of that artichle mentioned her on this forum that was fondled by an elder eventually couldn't take not being believed by her mom and told her she didn't want to go to meetings anymore. So the elders dfd her and her mom threw her away giving her up to the state. Its really sick how religion can have so much control over people.
 +3 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 2 days ago

And what is the worst a 14 can do?
Be "arrogant and unrepentant" when interrogated by three older men in a locked room??
Was she perhaps feeling threatened and intimidated by that experience, and overwhelmed with emotions that a 14 year old cant process?
Yep...seems fair ......
 +4 / -0
Absolutesbeginners
Absolutesbeginners a day ago

"Disfelow " at 14een
GOOD !!
She goes FAST ! i am jealous !!

Life is short !!
Clever girl !!
Run AWAY from them .
 +1 / -0
Lostandfound
Lostandfound a day ago

Isn't it child abuse for 3 men to interrogate a 14 year old on her own?
new lows every day
years ago as an elder such things were under authority of parents and not the congregation
 +4 / -0
Vidiot
Vidiot a day ago

Yes, by all means, cut off a hormone-happy, emotionally-roller-coastered minor from the only support system she's ever known.
That'll definitely set her straight.
Morons.


 +3 / -0
breakfast of champions
breakfast of champions a day ago

Baptism is such a protection . . . . . NOT!!!!
Horrible. So sad to hear this happened, but hopefully some good will come out of it.
 +1 / -0
out4good4
out4good4 a day ago

Baptism is such a protection
From absolutely nothing. In the real world, the very idea of being submersed in bleached tap water as a symbol of anything other than getting wet is absurd.
 +2 / -0

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Topic Summary
i was contacted by my ex sister-in-law yesterday.
she asked me if i wanted to spend some time with my niece, while she went to her sister's baby shower.
it turns out my niece can't go because she's about to be disfellowshipped at the ripe old age of 14. .



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by The Hermit 3 months ago



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My 14-year-old niece is being disfellowshipped
by keyser soze 2 days ago 47 Replies latest 7 hours ago   jw friends
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Absolutesbeginners
Absolutesbeginners a day ago

Of course it is "child abuse "
But GOD watch it !!!
and he is going to make troubles !!!!!
( i was joking ..)
Of course . God is on holidays with his ( only ) son....
BE BACK SOON ... ; ) ( on the door)

 +1 / -0
Truthexplorer
Truthexplorer a day ago
This example highlights WHY parents need to stop pushing their kids into baptism to show them of as trophies. Any parents reading this sad situation with this 14 year old child, need to realise that Watchtower has an extreme punishment policy toward all those disfellowshipped regardless of age or wrongdoing. Shunning will come into effect whether you are 14 or 90 years of age. Shunning will come into effect if you are disfellowshipped no matter what. It doesnt matter how big or small the offence is. Watchtowers Shunning policy doesn't discriminate. If disfellowshipped for robbing a bank, you are shunned. If disfellowshipped for trivialities such as simply not agreeing with a teaching eg 1914...you are shunned. Parents, please don't encourage your child to get baptised into the organisation until they are at least a grown adult and can make their own minds up. I feel very sorry for this 14 year old girl. Christian love does not abuse children in this way!

 +4 / -0
talesin
talesin a day ago

She will know that uncle will be there for her. I've had some recent contact - don't give up hope! Let her know she is good enough, and loved. So sorry to read this. Perhaps, in the end, it will mean she will escape the cult, though the next few years will be rough. She will have you. xx
 +4 / -0
pepperheart
pepperheart a day ago
then people wonder why i take as many teaching books and mags from the carts as possible and then trash them,if i can save just one person from having to go through this it will have been worth it.

 +4 / -0
zeb
zeb a day ago
Oh the bastards! So kick her out at 14 and what happens to her school work( not that the wt gives a fig) so her schooling suffers then any prospects for life are shipwrecked. This is child abuse. You guys need a royal commission!
 +4 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon a day ago

Someone posted a topic why are we so hard on JW's, not sure if the was the exact
wording but this is why.. It's a evil organization.
 +4 / -0
steve2
steve2 a day ago

Excellent, congratulations! The first step in becoming an XJW (and getting your life back) is baptism.
Let's hope her future is one of self-realization, fulfillment, achievement & joy.
I like that Nathan quotes me in the first line because I have long said on this forum that the first step to leaving the organization is getting baptized (because it is for many a big fat anticlimax).
Given that her disfellowshipping has happened - and that is is deplorable - let us hope this opens your niece's eyes.
We would honestly have a different type of problem if the organization suddenly became overtly concerned, supportive and loving towards young people. Sure, the young ones would find it strange but it would make decisions to leave and stay away even harder.
At least when you're kicked out you may be more inclined to start working out things for yourself (if you haven't already) and be prepared to taking a good, hard look at the plain harsh stupidity of jw organization. One thing's for sure: Once disfellowshipped, the individual is never the same again - even if later reinstated, they seldom ever (want to) return to their most zealous state.
 
berrygerry
berrygerry a day ago
Which country?

 
Nathan Natas
Nathan Natas a day ago

steve2 proudly claimed, "The first step in becoming an XJW (and getting your life back) is baptism. I like that Nathan quotes me..."
Steve2, you have said things I agree with, and things I do not agree with. I can't agree with the conclusioon you have leapt to here.
I was unaware that I was "quoting you." I myself have used the phrase many times, and I don't recall ever thinking to myself, "I'm going to steal that phrase..."
I've been here 4 years longer than you. When you use the word "THE" are you quoting me?
Want to engage in a contest for the dated easter-egg?



 
ZAPPA-ESQUE
ZAPPA-ESQUE a day ago

I am not a Shrink but we do have 3 adopted children in our family and one of the spinoffs is the anger and angst that comes with feelings of abandonment by a parent - In the case of one of the boys - his mom is around but he gets very angry and also does crazy things- Including setting things on fire [we may be over that phase ...???? et c etc .
My point being you have got to be dealing with the human being in her totality - Emotional/ Spiritual/ Intellectual / Sexual [especially does a girl need her "dad" going into teen years - I have a grown -up daughter - its vital for her development - Now this girl is being wrenched from that vital next step in her growth !
But its just so easy to press the BIG RED BUTTON of Df'ing isn't it !
Posts like this are not good for me - I get very very angry !
I am so sorry to hear of this keyser soze

 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
i was contacted by my ex sister-in-law yesterday.
she asked me if i wanted to spend some time with my niece, while she went to her sister's baby shower.
it turns out my niece can't go because she's about to be disfellowshipped at the ripe old age of 14. .



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I COLLECT QUOTES. . . Here are some of my favorites
by Terry 22 days ago
StarTrekAngel
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel 5 months ago
The Hermit
The Hermit's story PART 4
by The Hermit 3 months ago



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My 14-year-old niece is being disfellowshipped
by keyser soze 2 days ago 47 Replies latest 7 hours ago   jw friends
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jhine
jhine a day ago

Just awful ,
Jan
 
tiki
tiki a day ago
A little teenage kid...difficult time at best and they go and disfellow them.....and cut them off from the only support system they know....that is child abuse. That little girl should get into counseling with a real professional because the repercussions from this abusive treatment could produce some very bad outcomes for her. Do everything you can to help her.....please....
 +1 / -0
atomant
atomant a day ago
So baptized at 11 diso at 14. Could have just as easily been diso at 11. ELEVEN. For gods sake wake up you GB family exterminaters.

 +1 / -0
punkofnice
punkofnice a day ago

I am horrified to hear of this child abuse. On the other hand, I am not surprised. I wish there was some law that could take the WBT$ to court and rinse the money out of them.
It's times like these I think the death penalty is too kind for the governing body for crimes against humanity.
They need taking to task and destroying.
 +2 / -0
pbrow
pbrow 20 hours ago

I agree with nathan here. In the here and now her being shunned is tough. I think its great that you were asked to spend some time with her! The reality is she was raised as a dub. You have been given an opportunity!! Jump on that!
This is her life, accept it and move forward!
pbrow

 
steve2
steve2 16 hours ago

Nathan - I realize my sense of humor may have been too subtle. I should have made it more obvious that you were not quoting me and passing it off as your own. Who knows who came up with that line first?
I too have often expressed that view that baptism is not the end but more like the beginning of the end - the first step out of the organization
 
mana11
mana11 15 hours ago

This needs to be made public.
Can you extract her to give support?.
I know of this happening twice and both persons lives ended in suicide.
So Sad

 
No Apologies
No Apologies 7 hours ago

I would think this kind of situation could result in the Borg being liable in a civil lawsuit or even facing legal charges. I don't think a minor can enter a legal contract and consequently I don't see how they can be sanctioned for somehow not living up to that contract. And then there's the whole issue of the emotional, mental suffering this kind of policy inflicts on a young person. Heartless bastards.
No Apologies
 

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Topic Summary
i was contacted by my ex sister-in-law yesterday.
she asked me if i wanted to spend some time with my niece, while she went to her sister's baby shower.
it turns out my niece can't go because she's about to be disfellowshipped at the ripe old age of 14. .



Related Topics
Pattytheperfect1
First post after a year or two of lurking on this site-Sorry for the length!
by Pattytheperfect1 2 years ago
Leela1
Closer/death/Funerals
by Leela1 a month ago
Terry
I COLLECT QUOTES. . . Here are some of my favorites
by Terry 22 days ago
StarTrekAngel
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel 5 months ago
The Hermit
The Hermit's story PART 4
by The Hermit 3 months ago



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Another JW Literature Trolly Experience
by Athanasius a day ago 15 Replies latest 18 hours ago   jw experiences
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Athanasius
Athanasius a day ago

This morning I stopped at Dollar General to get a cheap container for waste paper. It was 11:30 AM and there were two JW literature trolleys parked near the store and manned by three JWs, on old man in a rolling chair, a 30 something man, and 30 something woman. As I walked by them I glanced at the their literature rack and proceeded into the store.
I was in the store for 20 minutes and made my purchase. As I left the store to return to my car, I noticed that the female JW had departed. Apparently she clocked out early. Anyway I stopped by the trolleys and looked at the JW propaganda leaflets and brochures. To my surprise the younger JW man said: "Everything is free, take what you want." From what others on the forum have related, I didn't think the trolley JWs were suppose to talk to the public. Perhaps this guy was the exception.
I didn't have a lot of time and I wasn't interested in any of the publications that they had on display. But I did want to get a copy of their new Bible. So I asked: "Do you have any Bibles?"
Again he surprised me. He handed me a copy of the Revised NWT. It was still in the clear plastic wrap, which I accepted. I told him I preferred the New Revised Standard Version Bible, but I'd look over the JW Bible. Again he surprised me by saying: "I have the NRSV at home. It's a good translation."
Unfortunately I didn't have time to engage in any un-witnessing. So I thanked him for the Bible. But as I was leaving he gave me a leaflet titled: "You Are Invited to Study the Bible With JWS." I found it interesting that the leaflet said it was printed in Canada. But this experience took place in Santa Rosa, California, USA. Is Canada doing the bulk of JW printing now?
The Revised NWT was printed at Wallkill, New York, USA. However, the quality of this new Bible is inferior to the JW publications that I remember during my time in JWism. Of course I departed from JW land in 1984 so I guess things change.
Regarding the RNWT, the gray cover seems to be good quality for synthetic material. The Watchtower is too cheap to use quality leather. The paper also seems to be good. However, the binding is greatly inferior to that used in the older JW publications. Where in the past even JW teaching books had signatures, where the pages and backing were sewn. The pages of the RNWT are simply glued to the back. Actually this RNWT has the same binding that you would find in a trade paperback, which is not designed for the frequent use that a devout JW would put it through. So I can see the spine cracking and the pages falling out of these new Bibles after a year or two of frequent use. Perhaps that is the Watchtower's intent, so the devout JWs will have to replace their Bibles every few years.
 +6 / -0
rebel8
rebel8 a day ago


to get a cheap container for waste paper
And then you got something to put in your container. How poetic.

 +14 / -0
Absolutesbeginners
Absolutesbeginners a day ago

So you found a cheap container ?
For waste paper .
Now you can fill it ; )

 +5 / -0
Pete Zahut
Pete Zahut a day ago


The pages of the RNWT are simply glued to the back. Actually this RNWT has the same binding that you would find in a trade paperback, which is not designed for the frequent use that a devout JW would put it through. So I can see the spine cracking and the pages falling out of these new Bibles after a year or two of frequent use.

Can't expect too much of a free Bible. I have to give them kudos for having Bibles that they can give away. Maybe they have a "base model" for giving away and save the upgraded ones for those who pick them up at the K.Hall. The guy you talked to sounds like he was on the ball, was pro-active and even had another translation of the Bible. Good for him, he might be a thinker and think himself right out of "the truth" one day.

 +4 / -0
pepperheart
pepperheart a day ago

Well done, that must cost a bit of money to transport stuff all the way from canada for you :smile: i am jelous though
i have never had a nwt bible to trash all well there is always the future :smile:

 +2 / -0
Stuck in the middle37
Stuck in the middle37 a day ago
I have yet to see a JW Literature Trolley. Maybe one day. I did talk to a friend last week that said his cong. was using them.
 
skin
skin a day ago
My copy of the RNWT Bible was made in Japan, Way better quality. Sounds like you need to ask for one that was made in Japan.

 
GoneAwol
GoneAwol a day ago
Maybe when you`re bibble was thrown together, the weather was awful and it was too humid, cos jeehobgoblin couldn't be arsed with doing weather miracles....
 
Watchtower-Free
Watchtower-Free a day ago




 +1 / -0
alanv
alanv a day ago

I didn't think the trolley JWs were suppose to talk to the public. Perhaps this guy was the exception.
They will talk to you, but I think they are told not to get into heavy discussions in the streets. Looks bad in front of the public if the public see them arguing with someone.
 +2 / -0

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Another JW Literature Trolly Experience
by Athanasius a day ago 15 Replies latest 18 hours ago   jw experiences
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cofty
cofty a day ago

I think they are told not to get into heavy discussions in the streets
WWJD?
 +3 / -0
Diogenesister
Diogenesister a day ago

" From what others on the forum have related, I didn't think the trolley JWs were suppose to talk to the public. Perhaps this guy was the exception.
What? Really? Is this true? I always suspected that the reason this trolley witnessing started was because they didn't want their people conversing with a public who will give them so much " anti witness" information. Like any cult I believe the move to Warwick is part of a policy of retreat from society in general...an informed and knowledgeable society that is a threat to the ignorance of any cult member. The bigwigs KNOW there is no Armageddon any time "soon".
 
WTWizard
WTWizard 21 hours ago
And I wonder what happens if it starts pouring rain abruptly on one of those apathy carts, or how much wind it would take to blow one down.

 
TheListener
TheListener 20 hours ago
If it rains - the cart and literature melts.
 
dbq407
dbq407 20 hours ago

So I can see the spine cracking and the pages falling out of these new Bibles after a year or two of frequent use
No worries where i live, no one opens a bible anymore at meetings. With all the tablets no one needs them. The GB likes it that way :smile:
 
Heaven
Heaven 18 hours ago


Athanasius said: I found it interesting that the leaflet said it was printed in Canada. But this experience took place in Santa Rosa, California, USA. Is Canada doing the bulk of JW printing now?
Yes, it was a few years back... some, if not all, of the U.S. printing moved to Canada.

 

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this morning i stopped at dollar general to get a cheap container for waste paper.
it was 11:30 am and there were two jw literature trolleys parked near the store and manned by three jws, on old man in a rolling chair, a 30 something man, and 30 something woman.
as i walked by them i glanced at the their literature rack and proceeded into the store.. i was in the store for 20 minutes and made my purchase.



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by Nicholaus Kopernicus 3 months ago



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Anybody remember those brothers that would harass, and hound the elders into making them, finally, appoint him as an elder himself?
by Dunedain a day ago 6 Replies latest 21 hours ago   jw experiences
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Dunedain
Dunedain a day ago

Lol, for some reason, I was thinking back to all the many "characters" that were often so prevalent in Kingdom halls back in the day. They are, I am sure, still there now, but fortunately I haven't been in a KH for like 20 years.
Anyway, I remembered this one brother, who was DYING to be made an Elder. He could not believe he wasn't an elder yet, after sooo many years. In his mind, he did, and was doing, everything right. It just did not make sense, lol.
I remember watching the "progression" of his trying to get appointed. At this time, I was only around 10 years old, but I remember observing, from a distance, and for years, his "desperate" attempt, and how it evolved into "lunacy" over time. I was even privy to some "private" conversation because my father was an elder at the time, and one of the ones being harassed.
I must admit, this "brother" was actually a nice dude, and never did anything wrong to me personally, but his "journey" to become an elder, was quite comical.
First, he made his wife become a pioneer. That's what she was, a complete and total pioneer, with the personality of a flea. She always looked so miserable, with a "puss" on her face, like she just smelled sour milk, BUT she pioneered. She was also, like 15 years younger than this brother, and the brother was often looked down upon, as a sort of "cradle robber", so this didn't help his "elder goal".
Then he would constantly be harassing the elder by telling them, whenever he saw them, that he was " ready for more privileges". He would always be saying things like, "whatever you brothers think", and "whatever I can do", and "whatever you guys decide", it was just ridiculous.
He would try so hard to kiss ass, that he was constantly introducing new "gadgets", and electronic equipment, to try and make the meetings "sound" better, and "clearer", and more "modern". What the brother didn't realize was that he was constantly buying the newest and most expensive, electronic gadgets, and that he looked "materialistic" to the Elders. Then, sometimes, the brothers would give in, and "adopt" his latest electronic, and change over the microphones, and they wouldn't work at the next meeting, and brother and sister "so and so's" comments would fade in and out, lol. That's 2 strikes, not only did brother "materialistic", make the elders spend money they didn't have to, but the stuff work like shit on top of it.
Then he would continue to harass them for more privileges, all with the goal of being an elder just out of reach, until they would give in, and give him some more "privileges". He was put in charge of the magazine counter, and running this thing or that thing. The problem was, this brother had the WORST lateness problem ever. He was constantly late for every meeting, talk, field service, and even the "privileges" he was put in charge of, he was late to run it. I remember he would show up to the meetings, in his work uniform, at least twice a month, cause he was sooo late all the time. One time the CO was visiting, and practically yelled at him from the stage, for strolling in during the prayer.
All this time, he still doesn't get why he still ONLY a "lowly" ministerial servant, and not an elder. The next "phase", was him and his wife had children. 2 cute little girls, and finally a boy. They would be dressed in all the best, and fanciest meeting clothes, and became "pawns" in his elder aspirations. He would concoct these long winded, and "wordy" answers for the kids to read for their Sunday Watchtower study comments. Everyone, would "oooh and aaah", how cute, and he would sit there with a proud look, waiting any day now to be "appointed elder", but the elders weren't biting.
You see, because, he LOVED to spend so much money on all the latest gadgets, and new car, and dressiest clothing for the kids, him and his wife, and 3 children, were stuck in a 1 bedroom apartment, above his in laws house, lol. Not "elder" material, if you asked them, but he still didn't get it. So finally, after all the years, and years of ass kissing, and pioneering wife, and perfect children, and constantly harassing the elders, his ass kissing turned to "anger".
He now started to talk to the CO, behind the elders backs, when the CO would come to visit. He would tell the CO that the body was "holding him back", and "snubbing" him. Well, of course, we all know how well that must have went over with the elders. It was the same old thing year after year, but now he was starting to "bully" the elders into appointing him.
After years of letters to the society, and backroom, private talks to the CO's, and "crying" to the elders in other congregations, he finally snapping one day, and literally after calling all the elders into the backroom, and asking "why haven't I been made an elder yet", he was FINALLY made an elder.
I remember, the night it happened, and as it was being announced, he sat there, knowing very well that everyone would be looking at him, and he was nodding his head up and down, in the "yes" motion, to say that "yes that's right I am finally getting what I deserve". Not humble, or quiet, or even happily smiling, nope just shaking his head up and down, in an I deserve this manner. Heck, it only took him 15 years, lol.
Anyway, he was an elder for a few years, but always in a "backseat", kinda way. More like a bottom of the ladder type of elder, not in the "trenches", with the other assholes. He lasted like that a few years, until he moved about 1500 miles away to a new congregation. Well, guess what, he now had to be made an elder in THIS new congregation. Yes, he was an elder currently, but for some reason, it doesn't always carry automatically when you move to a new congregation. He figured he would be an elder very quickly, or at least during the next CO's visit. Well, it didn't happen, now these elders, were NOT appointing him, and were "dragging" their feet, another "conspiracy" against him.
What he didn't, and never realized, was that he was not "elder material", and only got it by bullying himself into the position, and these elders saw thru his bullshit too. I heard that eventually, after so many years in his new congregation, of not being made an elder again, he made the old PO elder from my original congregation, write a letter to "help" these elders see that he should be an elder, lol. I don't know the status, as of now, though.
Its just so crazy, when you put all this in perspective, on how some men will literally OBSESS over this elder position. It consumes some people, and they want it for their own selfish, and personal reason. Its a position they covet, but for all the wrong reasons. Finally, when they all get it, what is it really, other than a bunch of men, appointing each other into a bullshit, hypocritical "club", where they can judge other people. Its all a bunch of nonsense.

 +4 / -0
sir82
sir82 a day ago

I've never seen anything quite that extreme, but I've seen it from more or less the other end.
Some guys are so wrapped in their "elder persona" that if for some reason they are removed, it is devastating beyond words, almost beyond comprehension. They go into a "death spiral" of depression & bitterness.
It's as if, if they are not an elder, they are nobody. It's almost literally the only thing that gives them any satisfaction in life.

 +1 / -0
freddo
freddo a day ago

I've seen similar. About ten years ago an MS. He even wrote letters to the body twice a year complaining.
He moved congregations to get appointed. Hours and hours were spent on this brother because he would suck up to a couple of the dominant elders but there was always a couple of elders who did not dominate but would not be pushed around.
Even a DO and CO spent their visit discussing him with one of the bodies of elders and as always in these cases there is a good side and a not so good side to these people.
He changed congregations three times and never got appointed and on the last move they did not even make him a MS! As far as I know he still can't grasp why he doesn't qualify even as an MS.
 +1 / -0
Iown Mylife
Iown Mylife a day ago

If you want it you can't have it, lol!
 
pale.emperor
pale.emperor a day ago

I've seen what you've described almost exactly in my hall. The guy's now moved to another hall because our elders "all have it in for him".
He is actually a nice guy... until you upset someone in his family, then they dont go to the hall for a few weeks, stop talking to you and talk about you behind your back.
So maybe he's not far off after all!

 +1 / -0
WingCommander
WingCommander 21 hours ago

This guy was obviously a dumbass. He would have been made an Elder in less than 2 years if he had been donating (by cheque with his name on it) in the contribution box, and giving out enough green handshakes come the CO's visit. I've seen some real low-life posuers become Elders super-fast using this very method. No Holy Spirit required, just green handshakes and all "who you knew".

 +1 / -0
Darkknight757
Darkknight757 21 hours ago

There is a guy at the hall that comes to mind. He sooo badly wants to become an elder. He tries so hard too it's actually kinda sad to see such gross desperation.
His problem? Scary. He is probably the scariest person you will ever meet. Misspell his name and he throws a fit. Don't turn in your territory on time and he will hound you like a rabid dog. He even went on a rant about humility and how he needs to display it on multiple meeting parts he did.
Now they use him even less cause he's such a head case. Funny thing is we had our CO visit recently and AGAIN he wasn't appointed. LOL!!!
 +2 / -0

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Any one from Colorado?
by raven 2 days ago 7 Replies latest 13 hours ago   jw friends
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raven
raven 2 days ago

Hi everyone,
Any one on the forum in the Colorado area?
I would love to get to know local ones who are out of the organization or who are currently DF'd DA'd faded. I am going through some tough times trying to endure the journey of fading out of the organization and would love to get to know all of your stories as well as those locally!
Much love

 
Absolutesbeginners
Absolutesbeginners 2 days ago

Raven I am not from Colorado .

But i wish you the best on your ( very )hard journey !
In my country they say : " they are tall only because you are on your knees "
i dont know if my translation is good?
as you can see , you'are not alone !
Different language / same story .....
Take care !
AbS Beg

 +1 / -0
wifibandit
wifibandit 2 days ago
I have some friends from https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/ who are in Colorado. Stop by and introduce yourself! Tell 'em wifibandit sent you :wink:
 +1 / -0
stephanie61092
stephanie61092 18 hours ago
I'm not from Colorado but it's my favorite state and I visit often! Maybe next time I'm out there, we can meet up! I love garden of the gods :smile:
 +2 / -0
raven
raven 17 hours ago
@stephanie61092
I would love to meet up!! I live relatively close to Garden of the Gods. Would be a lot of fun!!!
 +2 / -0
stephanie61092
stephanie61092 13 hours ago
Ok I sent you another PM! Lets chat and I'll try to plan my next vacation :smile:
 
BlackWolf
BlackWolf 13 hours ago
I used to live in Colorado, but now I live in Florida. Its a nice place I wish I could back. :frowning:
 
raven
raven 13 hours ago

@ BlackWolf
I used to live in Florida!! How crazy, we both switched states!

 

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Dunedain
6
Anybody remember those brothers that would harass, and hound the elders into making them, finally, appoint him as an elder himself?
by Dunedain in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 a day ago
lol, for some reason, i was thinking back to all the many "characters" that were often so prevalent in kingdom halls back in the day.

they are, i am sure, still there now, but fortunately i haven't been in a kh for like 20 years.. anyway, i remembered this one brother, who was dying to be made an elder.

he could not believe he wasn't an elder yet, after sooo many years.

pale.emperor
WingCommander
Darkknight757
21 hours ago
Athanasius
15
Another JW Literature Trolly Experience
by Athanasius in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 a day ago
this morning i stopped at dollar general to get a cheap container for waste paper.

it was 11:30 am and there were two jw literature trolleys parked near the store and manned by three jws, on old man in a rolling chair, a 30 something man, and 30 something woman.

as i walked by them i glanced at the their literature rack and proceeded into the store.. i was in the store for 20 minutes and made my purchase.

TheListener
dbq407
Heaven
19 hours ago
raven
7
Any one from Colorado?
by raven in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 2 days ago
any one on the forum in the colorado area?.

i would love to get to know local ones who are out of the organization or who are currently df'd da'd faded.

i am going through some tough times trying to endure the journey of fading out of the organization and would love to get to know all of your stories as well as those locally!.

stephanie61092
BlackWolf
raven
13 hours ago
keyser soze
47
My 14-year-old niece is being disfellowshipped
by keyser soze in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 2 days ago
i was contacted by my ex sister-in-law yesterday.

she asked me if i wanted to spend some time with my niece, while she went to her sister's baby shower.

it turns out my niece can't go because she's about to be disfellowshipped at the ripe old age of 14. .

steve2
mana11
No Apologies
7 hours ago
no-zombie
44
Australia Branch to end magazine printing
by no-zombie in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 2 days ago
just one week from the zone overseer's visit is the announcement that the magazine production by the australia branch will end in a few months.

the task being transferred to the japan branch.

while i'm not 100% certain, i understand that this effectively ends all major printing bar perhaps tracts, handbills and other loose items.

stuckinarut2
sparrowdown
pepperheart
11 hours ago
roberto avon
ARE THERE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN ITALIAN, GERMAN AND AMERICAN ( or Anglosaxon countries) JWS ?
by roberto avon in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 2 days ago
reading many of the posts on this and on other sites i came to this conclusion.

my experiences living among jws are;- my brothers in law are and were entrepeneurs since 25 years working very hard and earning good money.

so they are quite wealthy- they bought nice houses and big cars and go on holiday around the world- we had in our family two dfshipments but there was no shunning- their children had the opportunity to study and for the moment not all became jdubs.- they have an acceptable relationship with the part of non jw familyis this tipically " italian "?

poopie
40
Help messy problem
by poopie in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 3 days ago
the problem is i have a baptized witness going out on service door to door giveing comments at kh who for the last 4 years has had sex with at least 10 prostitutes and regularly takes drugs ie speed the cong has no idea he's doing this he says he will never go to elders for fear his family will shun him if df so he continues i know because he tells me everything should i tell the elders or not.

JWdaughter
sparrowdown
Wild_Thing
a day ago
AndersonsInfo
1
msn.com: Losing my religion: life after extreme belief - EXPERIENCES OF 3 YOUNG PEOPLE
by AndersonsInfo in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 3 days ago http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/losing-my-religion-life-after-extreme-belief/ar-bbrzkjy?li=aaggnb9.

megan phelps-roper, 30, a former member of the westboro baptist church.

my first memories are of picketing ex-servicemen’s funerals and telling their families they were going to burn in hell.

steve2
3 days ago
Andy Dufresne
21
Suppose I ought to introduce myself.....
by Andy Dufresne in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 3 days ago
i've left a couple of semi-"humorous" remarks, but not yet said a proper hello....but firstly thank you, to all, for this site and all its comments.i have been lurking on this site for 4-5 years, awake for 5-6 years and seriously fading for the last 4 years.

i am now "out" and widely considered "out" by the congregation but due being very cautious and playing a very long game, (and having a wife who understand the repercussions of blowing the whistle on the few viewpoints i have discussed with her) i have not been df'd of da'd.

this forum has been a crutch and guide as well as helping me wake - and the humour many on here use has been a welcome relief.

Diogenesister
DesirousOfChange
Andy Dufresne
2 days ago
Ben131895
2
Field service in Germany
by Ben131895 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 3 days ago
i left the organization 34 years ago but are still interested how the developments are.. when i stopped working 13 years ago (i am dutch) we moved to germany, just across the border since houses were 50% cheaper than in holland and the germans are a more polite people.

we live in a little town with 20.000 people.. in holland we didn't see the witnesses too often, perhaps two times a year.. in germany (at least in my little town) i have not seen the witnesses in all these 13 years.

they are standing in the shopping center and most of the time also at the railway station with a trolly.

prologos
TheOldHippie
3 days ago
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Sledracer
5
Cognitive Dissonance is the feeling of uncomfortable tension which comes from holding two conflicting thoughts in the mind at the same time.
by Sledracer in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 8 hours ago
cognitive dissonance is the feeling of uncomfortable tension which comes from holding two conflicting thoughts in the mind at the same time.

this is what is wrong with me, i have a love hate relationship with the jw's.

GoneAwol
stuckinarut2
GoneAwol
an hour ago
ShirleyW
2
JW Story on Dateline this Friday
by ShirleyW in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 9 hours ago
pam candelario, ralph candelario, dateline nbc: colorado man killed second wife, first wife still missing.

.

the title of an article in the inqusitr, i get the google alerts for the dubs, but this site for some reason i couldn't do a cut and paste, anyway, if you're interested to see why one of jehovahs loyal servants would kill his 1st and 2nd wives it's supposed to be broadcast this friday at 10pm est..

dazed but not confused
dazed but not confused
8 hours ago
time2keepmoving
13
My sister who is still in is going to Costa Rica as a missionary
by time2keepmoving in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 11 hours ago
i left the organization in 2011 and never look back.

i left behind my sister and her two daughters by mid 2015 both her daughters (both are in their early twenties) were disfellowshipped and left the organization.

she has decided to go to costa rica as a missionary (i guess that's what they are still calling them, unless that has changed, been gone so long i don't know if they came up with a new term for it).

fulano
time2keepmoving
sir82
3 hours ago
Onacruise2NephewBoogaloo
8
Friends of onacruise
by Onacruise2NephewBoogaloo in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 17 hours ago
i was born into the elastic fact, tract & knock knock club, as it is known to some, but most often you will hear them referred to as "the worst thing i've ever been through.

"i had the typical jw early life of forced compliance by sadistic joy killing narcissists.

i learned early on that 'new light' doesn't come from stifled children and there was no suggestion box at my house.. when i was 6 my parents divorced and my mom quickly remarried and we moved from portland to the oregon coast.

ZAPPA-ESQUE
talesin
talesin
2 hours ago
Drifting Away
18
Another Newbie
by Drifting Away in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 19 hours ago
hello, i have been lurking for a while, but discovered ttatt for about 8 months now.

i am trying to fade out, problem is i have a big family i would lose if i got df'ed or da,'ed myself.

my wife knows how i feel, and is not thrilled but i cant hide my feelings.

Billy the Ex-Bethelite
goingthruthemotions
Drifting Away
4 minutes ago
Michelle
6
Bible Visit
by Michelle in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
is anyone here from imus cavite?

i need someone come to our house.

i need someone to invite my father.

steve2
defender of truth
defender of truth
11 hours ago
pale.emperor
15
Drifting what i've feared has started already...
by pale.emperor in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 a day ago
im in the process of drifting out.

my entire family are jw's.

my wife and her family are too.

Jehalapeno
Drifting Away
Andy Dufresne
18 hours ago
purrpurr
5
Thinking of writing a book about jw's, what should I put in it?
by purrpurr in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
i've just finished reading alan miller's "fade from the truth", i enjoyed it and i love that it's freely available.

so i was thinking of writing a book of my own.

not an account of my life but more a simple step by step look at jw's and what they are really like?

JW_Rogue
atomant
punkofnice
3 hours ago
RocketQueen
17
I'm a Non-JW looking to ask a few questions re dfing
by RocketQueen in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
someone close to me has been brought up as a jw since a very early age.

he's now looking to exit.

he was baptised as a teen and is now early 20s.

pale.emperor
rawe
poopie
2 hours ago
Dunedain
6
Anybody remember those brothers that would harass, and hound the elders into making them, finally, appoint him as an elder himself?
by Dunedain in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 a day ago
lol, for some reason, i was thinking back to all the many "characters" that were often so prevalent in kingdom halls back in the day.

they are, i am sure, still there now, but fortunately i haven't been in a kh for like 20 years.. anyway, i remembered this one brother, who was dying to be made an elder.

he could not believe he wasn't an elder yet, after sooo many years.

pale.emperor
WingCommander
Darkknight757
21 hours ago
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Lost touch with old friends from your old congregation? Find them here!
 255,345 posts in  11,847 topics

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James Mixon
4
Kobe 60 points last game
by James Mixon in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 6 hours ago
the old guy went out with a bang..l.a lakers.

a great career

Bonsai
Bonsai
talesin
2 hours ago
Sledracer
5
Cognitive Dissonance is the feeling of uncomfortable tension which comes from holding two conflicting thoughts in the mind at the same time.
by Sledracer in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 8 hours ago
cognitive dissonance is the feeling of uncomfortable tension which comes from holding two conflicting thoughts in the mind at the same time.

this is what is wrong with me, i have a love hate relationship with the jw's.

GoneAwol
stuckinarut2
GoneAwol
an hour ago
ShirleyW
2
JW Story on Dateline this Friday
by ShirleyW in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 9 hours ago
pam candelario, ralph candelario, dateline nbc: colorado man killed second wife, first wife still missing.

.

the title of an article in the inqusitr, i get the google alerts for the dubs, but this site for some reason i couldn't do a cut and paste, anyway, if you're interested to see why one of jehovahs loyal servants would kill his 1st and 2nd wives it's supposed to be broadcast this friday at 10pm est..

dazed but not confused
dazed but not confused
8 hours ago
time2keepmoving
13
My sister who is still in is going to Costa Rica as a missionary
by time2keepmoving in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 11 hours ago
i left the organization in 2011 and never look back.

i left behind my sister and her two daughters by mid 2015 both her daughters (both are in their early twenties) were disfellowshipped and left the organization.

she has decided to go to costa rica as a missionary (i guess that's what they are still calling them, unless that has changed, been gone so long i don't know if they came up with a new term for it).

fulano
time2keepmoving
sir82
3 hours ago
Onacruise2NephewBoogaloo
8
Friends of onacruise
by Onacruise2NephewBoogaloo in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 17 hours ago
i was born into the elastic fact, tract & knock knock club, as it is known to some, but most often you will hear them referred to as "the worst thing i've ever been through.

"i had the typical jw early life of forced compliance by sadistic joy killing narcissists.

i learned early on that 'new light' doesn't come from stifled children and there was no suggestion box at my house.. when i was 6 my parents divorced and my mom quickly remarried and we moved from portland to the oregon coast.

ZAPPA-ESQUE
talesin
talesin
2 hours ago
Drifting Away
18
Another Newbie
by Drifting Away in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 19 hours ago
hello, i have been lurking for a while, but discovered ttatt for about 8 months now.

i am trying to fade out, problem is i have a big family i would lose if i got df'ed or da,'ed myself.

my wife knows how i feel, and is not thrilled but i cant hide my feelings.

Billy the Ex-Bethelite
goingthruthemotions
Drifting Away
5 minutes ago
Michelle
6
Bible Visit
by Michelle in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
is anyone here from imus cavite?

i need someone come to our house.

i need someone to invite my father.

steve2
defender of truth
defender of truth
11 hours ago
pale.emperor
15
Drifting what i've feared has started already...
by pale.emperor in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 a day ago
im in the process of drifting out.

my entire family are jw's.

my wife and her family are too.

Jehalapeno
Drifting Away
Andy Dufresne
18 hours ago
purrpurr
5
Thinking of writing a book about jw's, what should I put in it?
by purrpurr in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
i've just finished reading alan miller's "fade from the truth", i enjoyed it and i love that it's freely available.

so i was thinking of writing a book of my own.

not an account of my life but more a simple step by step look at jw's and what they are really like?

JW_Rogue
atomant
punkofnice
3 hours ago
RocketQueen
17
I'm a Non-JW looking to ask a few questions re dfing
by RocketQueen in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
someone close to me has been brought up as a jw since a very early age.

he's now looking to exit.

he was baptised as a teen and is now early 20s.

pale.emperor
rawe
poopie
2 hours ago
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Trustworthy JW Lawyers????
by Uzzah 2 days ago 6 Replies latest 2 days ago   watchtower scandals
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Uzzah
Uzzah 2 days ago

I will reserve comment but Mr. Pole has regularly represented the Canadian Branch of the JWs'. He is their go to lawyer when needing non-direct Society representation.
Disappointed at how slimy he has become. He and I used to be friends. I have no respect for him now. Fortunately his ex-wife and at least two daughters have seen the light and have enjoyed a real life
http://www.canadianlawyermag.com/legalfeeds/1439/judge-criticizes-lawyer-for-failing-to-disclose-connection-to-church.html
 
shepherdless
shepherdless 2 days ago
Looks like that happened around 3 years ago. I would hope that that lawyer was struck off or severely punished.
 
LevelThePlayingField
LevelThePlayingField 2 days ago

This guy's a real jerk. Purposely with holding information just to get the Watchtower their money quicker?! But I believe it. Nothing is sacred anymore.
 
freddo
freddo 2 days ago

Might be worth passing to the ARC and the UK commissions for information purposes as to "what lengths WT lawyers may go to to protect and help the WT" anywhere in the world?
 +2 / -0
Muddy Waters
Muddy Waters 2 days ago

Interesting that the lawyer knows how to set up investment accounts in the Cayman Islands....
And despicable that the lawyer wanted to take the parts of the estate that was meant for the children and give it to the WT too!!
 +1 / -2
zeb
zeb 2 days ago
Was he the counsel who defended the wt against a sr who had been violated? Leaving her and her mum with untold legal bills to pay for?
 
JWdaughter
JWdaughter 2 days ago
What a slimy turd of a person!
 

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Question about the new blood card
by Truthexplorer 3 days ago 9 Replies latest a day ago   watchtower medical
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Truthexplorer
Truthexplorer 3 days ago
OK......I really need to know the answer to the following question and scenario. Supposing a child at age 14 decides to get baptized. The child is then given the new blood card which has now tightened things up with respect to lawyers etc. Supposing that child is involved in a car accident, is unconscious, has the blood card on him/her. He or she is rushed to hospital, the parents are told that a blood transfusion needs to be administered due to so much loss of blood from the injuries sustained; the parents refuse to give in on the blood issue. Can he or she still me made ward of court? or does this new blood document now override ward of court? I really need to know the answer to this please!

 
Fisherman
Fisherman 2 days ago


Can he or she still me made ward of court?
No time for that while an unconcious minor is bleeding "to death". Seems to me that a judge has the power and authority to determine that a minor is mature enough OR NOT to make such a (BLOOD) decision if the minor or child is conscious. I cannot see a hospital not request for judicial intervention to give blood to an unconscious minor. Cannot see the hospital not giving blood to an unconcious minor based upon the medical directive. Seems to me that they will -just my guess though. I dont know how legal the directive is when it affects life and death of a minor.
I have seen judges order BT TO ADULTS (how much more a child) superseding the Directive based upon Non JW family such as spouse or sibling petition . I have also seen that the Court errs when doing so... but yes, it seems to me that as tight as the directive appears to be, it can be challenged.

 
Anony Mous
Anony Mous 2 days ago

That really depends on the attending, the risk and the necessity. For most jurisdictions, a medical directive by a non-emancipated minor (a minor that is not free of parental control by court order, marriage etc.) is legally null and void. The parents or minor (if lucid enough to substantiate their wishes) can indicate their wishes and most doctors will try to do their best to follow them but most risk management departments and lawyers of the hospital will say to do what they feel is in the best interest of the minor during an emergency.
This does not mean that doctors are free to do whatever, they still have to try to adhere to the wishes of the patient regardless whether or not they are minors but even the Supreme Court has established that parents do not have the right to let their children die.
 
the girl next door
the girl next door 2 days ago
No matter what the Watchtower draws up regarding their blood policies, minors will continue to be given life saving blood transfusions in emergency and non emergency situations. The courts are set up to resolve these issues 24/7.
 +4 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 2 days ago

What Girl*Next*Door said.
Doc

 
Fisherman
Fisherman 2 days ago


minors will continue to be given life saving blood transfusions in emergency and non emergency situations.
Nope, that depends. The "Youths who put God First" Awake proves you wrong. Also, in the USA when someone is bleeding to imminent death, do you think that the 24/7 set up Court has time to decide and rule? Please post more information about these 24/7 Courts. I would like to learn about them

 
Truthexplorer
Truthexplorer 2 days ago
I just wondered as am holding my own child back from baptism until over 18. I live in the UK and was concerned that this New document held more power legally on the blood issue when it comes to children.

 
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 2 days ago
14 year old boy was allowed by the state of Washington to refuse blood. One can not expect a judge to have any common sense.
 +1 / -0
the girl next door
the girl next door 2 days ago

The specific anomalies mentioned above are rare and nowhere near standard procedure in all but 3 of the United States where minors may be given authority over their own medical decisions.
In a life threatening situation where blood is required for emergent stabilization, which is particularly true in acute traumatic situations, the transfusion of a minor is performed 99.9% of the time regardless of the presence of a court order.
By Ex-Parte the following day those minors are made ward of the State to ensure the preemptive decision can not be challenged. It is a system designed to ensure the power of the Court 24/7.
 +1 / -0
Lee Elder
Lee Elder a day ago

This will vary depending on the location/existing laws, and the attending physician. We have seen cases where the physician speaks with the minor, and makes a decision to respect the minors wish to not accept a prohibited transfusion. However, in most the cases the physician has the legal authority to proceed with the transfusion of a minor in an emergency regardless of the parent or child's wishes.
The real danger to fourteen year olds (and other adolescent JWs) is having cancer or some blood disorder that eventually will require a prohibited transfusion to treat. In these cases, Watchtower has had success in getting courts to grant "mature minor" status, and prohibit their receiving medically necessary care. The 94 Awake has many examples.
 

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Atlantis
33
2016-4-4-BOE!--Scanning and Sending Medical Records through Emails!
by Atlantis in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 2 days ago
i was always under the impression that only "licensed" persons had the authority to do this.. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.

2016-4-4-boe scanning and sending medical records through emails!.

.. this is the last paragraph of the main body of the boe without the top and bottom, which revealed the congregation and information which could expose our source.. .. "therefore, brothers, i appeal to you to make sure that a copy of the new add for every publisher is kept in alphabetical order, perhaps using an a-z filing system to expedite it's location and so that it can be kept neat, clean and legible for scanning and emailing for up to 4 years, after which a new copy should be completed.

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rebel8
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WhatshallIcallmyself
4
Skin of My Teeth
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an evidence for divine origin that has often been used (at least to me) is where job describes "...escap[ing] with the skin of my teeth".

science is quoted as having discovered that teeth are covered in skin and therefore how would job have known something that modern science has only just discovered.

i was reminded of this at this weeks meeting when this verse was quoted but was surprised when a commenter said how it wasn't necessary to mention this in light of other "evidence" in the bible.

Finkelstein
Pubsinger
OneEyedJoe
a day ago
Atlantis
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say wifi, if we don't have this one in the archives would you throw it in there.

some kind folks sent it over and we may need it some day.

.. s-77 form britain (a lot of boxes to check on this one!)..

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anyone have a copy of this book?

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this morning, the new york times published an article entitled “radicalization of a belgium student turned bomb maker was invisible.” this piece, written by alissa j. rubin, details the conversion of 24-year-old najim laachraoui, one of the suicide bombers responsible for the attack of the belgium airport on march 22. rubin cites associates and family members of laachraoui, who all say that while he leaned toward a strict version of islam, and they did notice changes in his ideology and behavior, they never suspected he would be capable of such violent acts.

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The work goes on.
by zeb in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Child Abuse Issues
 2 days ago
royal commission holds its 5,000th private session.

the royal commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse has just completed its 5,000th private session.

fast facts about private sessions .

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stuckinarut2
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The "apostacy stigmatisation" of doing research!
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 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 2 days ago
a thought occurred that the way the society has stigmatised the doing of external research by witnesses, and labelling any such questioning as "apostate", is tragic.. no doubt, in every other aspect of life, we research things before making decisions.

eg, if making a purchase, we go online and check reviews etc to check the product out.

we don't just trust the words of the marketing department.

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Uzzah
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Trustworthy JW Lawyers????
by Uzzah in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Scandals & Coverups
 2 days ago
i will reserve comment but mr. pole has regularly represented the canadian branch of the jws'.

he is their go to lawyer when needing non-direct society representation.. disappointed at how slimy he has become.

he and i used to be friends.

Muddy Waters
zeb
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Truthexplorer
9
Question about the new blood card
by Truthexplorer in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Blood, Medical Treatment & Depression
 3 days ago
ok......i really need to know the answer to the following question and scenario.

supposing a child at age 14 decides to get baptized.

the child is then given the new blood card which has now tightened things up with respect to lawyers etc.

Crazyguy
the girl next door
Lee Elder
a day ago
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zeb
3
more from ARC
by zeb in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Child Abuse Issues
 4 hours ago
royal commission hosts criminal justice public roundtablesthe royal commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse is holding a series of public roundtables in april to discuss a range of criminal justice issues with invited participants.

the public roundtables follow march’s public hearing into criminal justice issues.

royal commission chief executive officer philip reed said the public roundtables will discuss adult sex offender treatment programs, director of public prosecution’s (dpp) oversight and complaint mechanisms and reporting offences.“these roundtables will invite comment and discussion from a range of participants, including police, public prosecutors, criminal justice policy officials, academic and practitioner experts and others,” mr reed said.“consultation through these public roundtables will help inform the royal commission’s criminal justice policy work,” mr reed said.

defender of truth
smiddy
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2 hours ago
Island Man
4
Lurking JWs: Do people really need to know and use the word "Jehovah" or other language equivalents, to truly know God?
by Island Man in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 8 hours ago
watchtower puts forth the argument that you can't really know god unless you know and use the appellation "jehovah" or its equivalent in other languages.

is this really true?

i say it's not true and i will demonstrate to you why.. god's name is not a mere label that we have to use to communicate with him so that he knows we're talking to him.

Island Man
defender of truth
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2 hours ago
wifibandit
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2016-03-12-E US BOE Re: Literature Offer for July through December 2016
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 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 12 hours ago
to all congregations in the united states branch territory re: literature offer for july through december 2016.

Magnum
nelim
freddo
3 hours ago
cofty
9
Evolution is a Fact #34 - Hiccups and Tadpoles
by cofty in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 13 hours ago
hiccups are a weird phenomena.

they are a combination of two involuntary actions - firstly a rapid inhalation of breath followed 35 milliseconds later by the glottis at the back of the throat suddenly closing off our airway.. our normal breathing is controlled by a "central pattern generator" in a small region of the brain stem close to the boundary with the spinal cord.

a signal is sent along the vagus and phrenic nerves resulting in a rhythmic contraction of muscles in chest, diaphragm and throat.. these nerves branch off right at the top of the spinal cord and follow a convoluted path through the chest cavity.

scary21
cofty
cofty
4 hours ago
raven
13
I need food for thought..
by raven in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 14 hours ago
hi friends,it has been 20 years that i've slaved for the wt and through out the past couple of years i could feel myself fighting an urge to accept that something was not right.

i fought it off for so long only for it to resurface frequently throughout my years of pioneering, assembly/convention parts, & speaking with people about the "truth", slaving and giving to try to be a "spiritual person" but in reality i was not spiritual because spirituality (according to the org) is doing all of the things they want you to do.

which then will label you as spiritual... no !!!

stuckinarut2
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8 hours ago
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April 11, 2016 BOE Re: Literature Offers for September and October 2016
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 15 hours ago
april 11, 2016 to all bodies of elders re: literature offers for september and october 2016. .

reminders for those assigned public talks s-141-e 4/16.

DesirousOfChange
humblepotato
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14 hours ago
James Mixon
13
Would crime rate go up if we were 100% positive this is the only life???
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 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 a day ago
no resurrection, no 70 virgins, no 7 millions jw's living for thousand of years, no coming.

back as dog or cat you are dead and done..

Hoffnung
WhatshallIcallmyself
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12 hours ago
ttdtt
18
Update - Talk # 6 THE FLOOD OF NOAH’S DAY AND YOU
by ttdtt in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 a day ago
instead of scraping this talk they updated it.. so they still try and make this look like it happened, and that there is plenty of evidence.to do that they refer to the (w08 6/1 8) found at http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2008411the main evidence is that floods have happened in the past, including.... geologists studying the landscape of the northwestern united states believe that as many as 100 ancient catastrophic floods once washed over the area.

one such flood is said to have roared through the region with a wall of water 2,000 feet [600 m] high, traveling at 65 miles an hour [105 km/hr]—a flood of 500 cubic miles [2,000 cu km] of water, weighing more than two trillion tons.

similar findings have led other scientists to believe that a global flood is a distinct possibility.. i could not find such an event, except for remembering one of those "disaster" shows on discover about that.

OnTheWayOut
Finkelstein
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8 hours ago
defender of truth
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 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 a day ago
the jehovah’s witnesses appear to have achieved a handshake with their bffs: jared kushner, aby rosen and lvwrk.. the pricing is roughly $700 million for the witnesses’ 733,000-square-foot world headquarters at 25-30 columbia heights and a 1.1-million-square-foot as-of-right development site at 85 jay st.. the same group purchased 1.2 million square feet in dumbo heights for $375 million in 2013 from the witnesses and are now leasing to such companies as wework and etsy.. tech outfits have been circling the brooklyn waterfront properties — and the large “watchtower” on the sign could someday be swapped for a name like “facebook.”.

bob knakal of cushman & wakefield has been running the sale for the witnesses, who are moving to warwick, ny.. multiple contracts were handed out for the properties and, so far, all are unsigned.. there has been interest globally, and local bidders have included l&l holding, east end capital, equity one and vornado realty trust.

when reached, the parties declined comment.. .

Finkelstein
LevelThePlayingField
blondie
16 hours ago
Atlantis
33
2016-4-4-BOE!--Scanning and Sending Medical Records through Emails!
by Atlantis in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 2 days ago
i was always under the impression that only "licensed" persons had the authority to do this.. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.

2016-4-4-boe scanning and sending medical records through emails!.

.. this is the last paragraph of the main body of the boe without the top and bottom, which revealed the congregation and information which could expose our source.. .. "therefore, brothers, i appeal to you to make sure that a copy of the new add for every publisher is kept in alphabetical order, perhaps using an a-z filing system to expedite it's location and so that it can be kept neat, clean and legible for scanning and emailing for up to 4 years, after which a new copy should be completed.

GoneAwol
cofty
rebel8
8 hours ago
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purrpurr
7
I went to see my Dr about the blood card issue
by purrpurr in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Blood, Medical Treatment & Depression
 an hour ago
i booked a double appointment so that she wouldn't be rushed.

i explained that i'd been brought up in the jw's and woken up to what a load of shite it was.

i explained that they have changed the blood card and that the elders in the cong are being told to effectively force people into signing it.

sir82
Room 215
purrpurr
3 minutes ago
zeb
3
more from ARC
by zeb in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Child Abuse Issues
 4 hours ago
royal commission hosts criminal justice public roundtablesthe royal commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse is holding a series of public roundtables in april to discuss a range of criminal justice issues with invited participants.

the public roundtables follow march’s public hearing into criminal justice issues.

royal commission chief executive officer philip reed said the public roundtables will discuss adult sex offender treatment programs, director of public prosecution’s (dpp) oversight and complaint mechanisms and reporting offences.“these roundtables will invite comment and discussion from a range of participants, including police, public prosecutors, criminal justice policy officials, academic and practitioner experts and others,” mr reed said.“consultation through these public roundtables will help inform the royal commission’s criminal justice policy work,” mr reed said.

defender of truth
smiddy
stuckinarut2
2 hours ago
Island Man
4
Lurking JWs: Do people really need to know and use the word "Jehovah" or other language equivalents, to truly know God?
by Island Man in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 8 hours ago
watchtower puts forth the argument that you can't really know god unless you know and use the appellation "jehovah" or its equivalent in other languages.

is this really true?

i say it's not true and i will demonstrate to you why.. god's name is not a mere label that we have to use to communicate with him so that he knows we're talking to him.

Island Man
defender of truth
Carol1111
2 hours ago
wifibandit
5
2016-03-12-E US BOE Re: Literature Offer for July through December 2016
by wifibandit in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 12 hours ago
to all congregations in the united states branch territory re: literature offer for july through december 2016.

Magnum
nelim
freddo
4 hours ago
cofty
9
Evolution is a Fact #34 - Hiccups and Tadpoles
by cofty in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 13 hours ago
hiccups are a weird phenomena.

they are a combination of two involuntary actions - firstly a rapid inhalation of breath followed 35 milliseconds later by the glottis at the back of the throat suddenly closing off our airway.. our normal breathing is controlled by a "central pattern generator" in a small region of the brain stem close to the boundary with the spinal cord.

a signal is sent along the vagus and phrenic nerves resulting in a rhythmic contraction of muscles in chest, diaphragm and throat.. these nerves branch off right at the top of the spinal cord and follow a convoluted path through the chest cavity.

scary21
cofty
cofty
4 hours ago
raven
13
I need food for thought..
by raven in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 14 hours ago
hi friends,it has been 20 years that i've slaved for the wt and through out the past couple of years i could feel myself fighting an urge to accept that something was not right.

i fought it off for so long only for it to resurface frequently throughout my years of pioneering, assembly/convention parts, & speaking with people about the "truth", slaving and giving to try to be a "spiritual person" but in reality i was not spiritual because spirituality (according to the org) is doing all of the things they want you to do.

which then will label you as spiritual... no !!!

stuckinarut2
rebel8
berrygerry
8 hours ago
wifibandit
5
April 11, 2016 BOE Re: Literature Offers for September and October 2016
by wifibandit in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 15 hours ago
april 11, 2016 to all bodies of elders re: literature offers for september and october 2016. .

reminders for those assigned public talks s-141-e 4/16.

DesirousOfChange
humblepotato
Magwitch
14 hours ago
James Mixon
13
Would crime rate go up if we were 100% positive this is the only life???
by James Mixon in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 a day ago
no resurrection, no 70 virgins, no 7 millions jw's living for thousand of years, no coming.

back as dog or cat you are dead and done..

Hoffnung
WhatshallIcallmyself
James Mixon
12 hours ago
ttdtt
18
Update - Talk # 6 THE FLOOD OF NOAH’S DAY AND YOU
by ttdtt in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 a day ago
instead of scraping this talk they updated it.. so they still try and make this look like it happened, and that there is plenty of evidence.to do that they refer to the (w08 6/1 8) found at http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2008411the main evidence is that floods have happened in the past, including.... geologists studying the landscape of the northwestern united states believe that as many as 100 ancient catastrophic floods once washed over the area.

one such flood is said to have roared through the region with a wall of water 2,000 feet [600 m] high, traveling at 65 miles an hour [105 km/hr]—a flood of 500 cubic miles [2,000 cu km] of water, weighing more than two trillion tons.

similar findings have led other scientists to believe that a global flood is a distinct possibility.. i could not find such an event, except for remembering one of those "disaster" shows on discover about that.

OnTheWayOut
Finkelstein
Clearview
8 hours ago
defender of truth
4
Jehovah’s Witnesses’ lock down deal for $700M Brooklyn plot
by defender of truth in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 a day ago
the jehovah’s witnesses appear to have achieved a handshake with their bffs: jared kushner, aby rosen and lvwrk.. the pricing is roughly $700 million for the witnesses’ 733,000-square-foot world headquarters at 25-30 columbia heights and a 1.1-million-square-foot as-of-right development site at 85 jay st.. the same group purchased 1.2 million square feet in dumbo heights for $375 million in 2013 from the witnesses and are now leasing to such companies as wework and etsy.. tech outfits have been circling the brooklyn waterfront properties — and the large “watchtower” on the sign could someday be swapped for a name like “facebook.”.

bob knakal of cushman & wakefield has been running the sale for the witnesses, who are moving to warwick, ny.. multiple contracts were handed out for the properties and, so far, all are unsigned.. there has been interest globally, and local bidders have included l&l holding, east end capital, equity one and vornado realty trust.

when reached, the parties declined comment.. .

Finkelstein
LevelThePlayingField
blondie
16 hours ago
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Investigations into the WatchTower organisations United Nations (UN) involvement etc...
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Child Molestation & Abuse Issues and other coverups
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I went to see my Dr about the blood card issue
by purrpurr an hour ago 7 Replies latest 7 minutes ago   watchtower medical
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purrpurr
purrpurr an hour ago

I booked a double appointment so that she wouldn't be rushed. I explained that I'd been brought up in the JW's and woken up to what a load of shite it was. I explained that they have changed the blood card and that the elders in the Cong are being told to effectively force people into signing it. That copies are to be taken and held by different people and that this card will give them the right to my medical records and to refuse blood in my behalf. I told her I didn't want this to happen and that I was trying to resist signing it but that I would be put under immense pressure to give in.
She already knew about disfellowshipping and how this has a stranglehold over the JW's. I asked her if I was forced to sign this card how could I overwrite it? I had already written her a letter refuting everything the blood card says and requesting that all this is kept confidential.
She thought it was pretty crap of the JW's to be forcing people to sign this thing against their own wishes. She also thought that there was a legal issue there as regards human rights but acknowledged that to fight with that issue would expose me. She suggested taking the angle of not allowing them access to my medical records would be best. The letter that I wrote will be scanned and put into my electronic notes. It will be filed in a secret file with an alert that in the event of a blood transfusion being needed there was a letter on file that must be read. I gave her permission to file this on EKIS - which is the electronic medical records system in the UK. This means that if I am taken into hospital anywhere the drs will be able to see this letter. She is also going to record in my notes the conversation we had about it.
I also gave her permission without using my personal details to tell her fellow drs and medical colleges about this issue. I said the more people in the medical profession that know about this the better and she agreed. She also suggested that possibly this could be a way to get dirt on members, if the JW's are allowed to look at people's medical records they could dig up stuff to punish them about? I agreed it was very possible.
All in all it went well. I've also notified a non JW relative whose in my confidence about this that should such a situation arise that they are to fight my corner and physically remove my parents, the JW's and the HLC from me so that the DR's can give me any treatment I need. I've written them an email outling all this, asked them to print it and to privately give it to the drs.
 +2 / -1
purrpurr
purrpurr 40 minutes ago
I forgot to add, she said that in her experience jw's were very racist. I agreed and added that they were also homophobic and sexist. I told her about the sisters when teaching having to wear a head covering when a penis in room. She thought it was ridiculous and said sarcastically "of course bow to the penis(!) It's like going back to the dark ages?!!"
 +1 / -0
tiki
tiki 39 minutes ago
Excellent! I think you handled this magnificently! I just really don't get how they can think they have a right to dictate personal medical choices. Its totally unethical.
 +1 / -0
purrpurr
purrpurr 29 minutes ago
I really think if every member on here went to their Dr and explained what the GB are doing then word amongst the medical community would get out there and would effectively void what the GB are trying to do.
 +1 / -0
TheOldHippie
TheOldHippie 23 minutes ago

"forcing people to sign this thing against their own wishes"
That is not exactly true, is it? I have not signed a card in my whole life, and nobody has objected or commented.
 +1 / -0
sir82
sir82 17 minutes ago



"forcing people to sign this thing against their own wishes"
That is not exactly true, is it? I have not signed a card in my whole life, and nobody has objected or commented.
"Coerced" is probably the better term.



TOH, you apparently have been lucky, er, fortunate, enough to be in a country and/or congregation with a far more liberal outlook.



Other JWs, unfortunately, belong to congregations with elders who are far more zealous in enforcing JW dogma. It is extraordinarily easy to imagine many elders placing extreme pressure on congregation members to sign and hand over such a document.

 +1 / -0
Room 215
Room 215 8 minutes ago

I say screw 'em; the only power they have over you is what you hand over to them.
If they df you, consider it a favor.
 
purrpurr
purrpurr 7 minutes ago
TOH, I explained that they force members by the extreme pressure they put members under and the constant threat of being disfellowshiped
 

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purrpurr
7
I went to see my Dr about the blood card issue
by purrpurr in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Blood, Medical Treatment & Depression
 an hour ago
i booked a double appointment so that she wouldn't be rushed.

i explained that i'd been brought up in the jw's and woken up to what a load of shite it was.

i explained that they have changed the blood card and that the elders in the cong are being told to effectively force people into signing it.

sir82
Room 215
purrpurr
7 minutes ago
zeb
3
more from ARC
by zeb in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Child Abuse Issues
 4 hours ago
royal commission hosts criminal justice public roundtablesthe royal commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse is holding a series of public roundtables in april to discuss a range of criminal justice issues with invited participants.

the public roundtables follow march’s public hearing into criminal justice issues.

royal commission chief executive officer philip reed said the public roundtables will discuss adult sex offender treatment programs, director of public prosecution’s (dpp) oversight and complaint mechanisms and reporting offences.“these roundtables will invite comment and discussion from a range of participants, including police, public prosecutors, criminal justice policy officials, academic and practitioner experts and others,” mr reed said.“consultation through these public roundtables will help inform the royal commission’s criminal justice policy work,” mr reed said.

defender of truth
smiddy
stuckinarut2
2 hours ago
Island Man
4
Lurking JWs: Do people really need to know and use the word "Jehovah" or other language equivalents, to truly know God?
by Island Man in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 8 hours ago
watchtower puts forth the argument that you can't really know god unless you know and use the appellation "jehovah" or its equivalent in other languages.

is this really true?

i say it's not true and i will demonstrate to you why.. god's name is not a mere label that we have to use to communicate with him so that he knows we're talking to him.

Island Man
defender of truth
Carol1111
2 hours ago
wifibandit
5
2016-03-12-E US BOE Re: Literature Offer for July through December 2016
by wifibandit in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 12 hours ago
to all congregations in the united states branch territory re: literature offer for july through december 2016.

Magnum
nelim
freddo
4 hours ago
cofty
9
Evolution is a Fact #34 - Hiccups and Tadpoles
by cofty in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 13 hours ago
hiccups are a weird phenomena.

they are a combination of two involuntary actions - firstly a rapid inhalation of breath followed 35 milliseconds later by the glottis at the back of the throat suddenly closing off our airway.. our normal breathing is controlled by a "central pattern generator" in a small region of the brain stem close to the boundary with the spinal cord.

a signal is sent along the vagus and phrenic nerves resulting in a rhythmic contraction of muscles in chest, diaphragm and throat.. these nerves branch off right at the top of the spinal cord and follow a convoluted path through the chest cavity.

scary21
cofty
cofty
4 hours ago
raven
13
I need food for thought..
by raven in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 14 hours ago
hi friends,it has been 20 years that i've slaved for the wt and through out the past couple of years i could feel myself fighting an urge to accept that something was not right.

i fought it off for so long only for it to resurface frequently throughout my years of pioneering, assembly/convention parts, & speaking with people about the "truth", slaving and giving to try to be a "spiritual person" but in reality i was not spiritual because spirituality (according to the org) is doing all of the things they want you to do.

which then will label you as spiritual... no !!!

stuckinarut2
rebel8
berrygerry
8 hours ago
wifibandit
5
April 11, 2016 BOE Re: Literature Offers for September and October 2016
by wifibandit in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 16 hours ago
april 11, 2016 to all bodies of elders re: literature offers for september and october 2016. .

reminders for those assigned public talks s-141-e 4/16.

DesirousOfChange
humblepotato
Magwitch
15 hours ago
James Mixon
13
Would crime rate go up if we were 100% positive this is the only life???
by James Mixon in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 a day ago
no resurrection, no 70 virgins, no 7 millions jw's living for thousand of years, no coming.

back as dog or cat you are dead and done..

Hoffnung
WhatshallIcallmyself
James Mixon
12 hours ago
ttdtt
18
Update - Talk # 6 THE FLOOD OF NOAH’S DAY AND YOU
by ttdtt in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 a day ago
instead of scraping this talk they updated it.. so they still try and make this look like it happened, and that there is plenty of evidence.to do that they refer to the (w08 6/1 8) found at http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2008411the main evidence is that floods have happened in the past, including.... geologists studying the landscape of the northwestern united states believe that as many as 100 ancient catastrophic floods once washed over the area.

one such flood is said to have roared through the region with a wall of water 2,000 feet [600 m] high, traveling at 65 miles an hour [105 km/hr]—a flood of 500 cubic miles [2,000 cu km] of water, weighing more than two trillion tons.

similar findings have led other scientists to believe that a global flood is a distinct possibility.. i could not find such an event, except for remembering one of those "disaster" shows on discover about that.

OnTheWayOut
Finkelstein
Clearview
8 hours ago
defender of truth
4
Jehovah’s Witnesses’ lock down deal for $700M Brooklyn plot
by defender of truth in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 a day ago
the jehovah’s witnesses appear to have achieved a handshake with their bffs: jared kushner, aby rosen and lvwrk.. the pricing is roughly $700 million for the witnesses’ 733,000-square-foot world headquarters at 25-30 columbia heights and a 1.1-million-square-foot as-of-right development site at 85 jay st.. the same group purchased 1.2 million square feet in dumbo heights for $375 million in 2013 from the witnesses and are now leasing to such companies as wework and etsy.. tech outfits have been circling the brooklyn waterfront properties — and the large “watchtower” on the sign could someday be swapped for a name like “facebook.”.

bob knakal of cushman & wakefield has been running the sale for the witnesses, who are moving to warwick, ny.. multiple contracts were handed out for the properties and, so far, all are unsigned.. there has been interest globally, and local bidders have included l&l holding, east end capital, equity one and vornado realty trust.

when reached, the parties declined comment.. .

Finkelstein
LevelThePlayingField
blondie
16 hours ago
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Critical analysis of the WatchTower Bible & Tract Society publications and the bible
 322,340 posts in  16,587 topics

Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
What Jehovah's Witnesses believe and why they do what they do
 808,196 posts in  29,948 topics

Scandals & Coverups
Investigations into the WatchTower organisations United Nations (UN) involvement etc...
 114,243 posts in  5,649 topics

Child Abuse Issues
Child Molestation & Abuse Issues and other coverups
 70,156 posts in  4,045 topics

Blood, Medical Treatment & Depression
Discuss Blood and other Medical Treatment including Mental Health within the WatchTower society
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Is this for real???
by RocketQueen 8 minutes ago 2 Replies latest a minute ago   jw friends
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RocketQueen
RocketQueen 8 minutes ago
Is this a real thing or has someone designed this as a joke?
http://wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/files/2016/03/JWMaze.jpg

 
sir82
sir82 4 minutes ago
Quite real, it is on their website here.

 
Darkknight757
Darkknight757 a minute ago
LOL!! Love this one. If any sane parent can't see how ridiculous this is they are much to be pitied.
 

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Australian zone visit today
by joe134cd 4 days ago 5 Replies latest 4 days ago   jw experiences
5
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joe134cd
joe134cd 4 days ago
I believe it's taking place as I type this. Just curious if anyone knows what's it's about. Just want to prepare myself for it in case my father should bring it up.
 
NeverKnew
NeverKnew 4 days ago

The persecution by the ARC?
 
freddo
freddo 4 days ago
Nah! The ARC will be the biggest elephant in the room that no-one dares talk about!
 
jookbeard
jookbeard 4 days ago
Joe, a poster called stuckinarut has already posted about it, it seems it took place yesterday?
 
skin
skin 4 days ago
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5897641292464128/zone-visit-australia?page=1&size=10
 
mana11
mana11 4 days ago
I heard a rumor that they are going to close the branch.

 

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Three reasons why I may have to back.
by Crazyguy 4 days ago 10 Replies latest 4 days ago   jw friends
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Crazyguy
Crazyguy 4 days ago

I look back over the last two years of my life with all the experiences I have read about here and other places and these are three experiences that stand out to me. Recently in another post a girl relates her experience of being in the borg and her mom literally threw her away by giving her over to the state after she accused an elder of groping her. Two; I met the man that wrote the insight books for the Borg and even though he was at the time the brians of the borgs doctines when he faded his family , brother and his kids are shunning him. Last but not least I ran into a co-worker a week ago and he was recruited in to another fundamentalist Christian church a few years ago from an eastern European country. He then was talked into moving to the U.S. . He then was lied to by the leader of the church and defrauded. Even though his kids know exactly what he went through and how hypocritical the church leader is they still decided to stay in the church and shun thier father and mother.
Its painfully clear that when people give over thier beliefs to a higher power thier ability to think rationally goes out the door. It doesn't seem to even matter how wacky the beliefs are or not. Just thinking about the girls experience of having her mother throw her away her only daughter and choosing the cult over her it's painfully obvious. I don't believe there's away to get my family out of the cult from the outside. In the outside you don't matter. I had one of my kids even say this to me. My wife and I don't have a relationship anymore so that's hopeless too. It seem to me that until a person feels victimised by the cult there no hope of waking them up.
I am thinking that the only Choice I have is to go back get in in thier good graces then start planting seeds , educate them about the bible through family worship night and try to push a more balanced aproach to life and the cult. I just don't know if I have any other option anymore.
 +6 / -3
AudeSapere
AudeSapere 4 days ago

Or... Live your life to the fullest degree that you choose. Find what makes you happy and do it.
If family is happy where they are, let them be happy.
Make sure they know they have your support. Then, when the contradictions and injustices of the organization hit each one personally, you may be the first to know.
Just a thought.
-Aude.

 +5 / -0
zeb
zeb 4 days ago
As many have said live a life full and contented as best you can. Its a good thing itself and the most useful way you can show them up for what they are; that they don't have any monopoly on happiness.
 +3 / -0
babygirl30
babygirl30 4 days ago
Why do you feel YOU have to make such a sacrifice in order to 'help' your family? It doesnt seem as if they are making any compromises on your behalf...
 
Vanderhoven7
Vanderhoven7 4 days ago
Why compromise your integrity for some imaginary potential to change them from within?
 
freemindfade
freemindfade 4 days ago
Im sorry crazy guy. I know its painful and shitty. I really feel for you. And don't let people criticize you top much. No two people are going to have a same exit. We all have to play the hand we are dealt. I'll always be here for support for you more matter what you choose. Of course we would all like to see everyone break away clean but its more complicated sometimes. I really wish it worked out better for you. Hang in there.
 +3 / -0
xjwsrock
xjwsrock 4 days ago

Do what you got to do man. I'm still stuck in. Still serving. It's been a long road so far and will be still ahead for many of us.
I've been thinking more and more about their child abuse policies. Since people are more motivated to take action by emotion, I think a well-thought out discussion about this subject may be the best way to open people's eyes.
Why doesnt the org alert the authorities about the child molesters in the congregation? If the priority was to do what is right in the eyes of God, what would be the right thing to do here? Isn't it obvious to anyone with a soul that the right thing to do would be to love your neighbor and protect the children. Shouldn't they care about all the potential victims of this perpetrator? Shouldn't that man be on a sex offender list so the community is protected?
It's for some business reason that they keep it hush hush. Business is thus put above the welfare of children - both inside and outside the congregation. Business is put above doing what is right. Would God ever direct an organization to to value business over babies? Hell no.
I wish that you could show your wife that the org values their religion business over her children.
Anyway, sorry for the rant. Hang in there. You can pm me anytime.
 +3 / -0
TheOldHippie
TheOldHippie 4 days ago

"I met the man that wrote the insight books for the Borg"
And who was that supposed to be?

 +2 / -0
oppostate
oppostate 4 days ago


"I met the man that wrote the insight books for the Borg"
And who was that supposed to be?
The Insight books (a two volume set) were a revision of the Aid book. Ray Franz, Ed Dunlap and others worked on that first WT encyclopedic book of the Bible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Franz#Watch_Tower_career

 
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 4 days ago
Riegnhart , probably didn't spell his name right but he was tasked to write the insight books as a replacement for the Aid book.
 

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Three reasons why I may have to back.
by Crazyguy 4 days ago 10 Replies latest 4 days ago   jw friends
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Skedaddle
Skedaddle 4 days ago

Crazyguy - I see you as a hero! I totally get it.
A few questions; You say your relationship is hopeless with your wife. Are you still married? Living together? Do you think going back will give you the chance to re-kindle your relationship with your wife so as to plant seeds and get her out? And the kids, how old are they?
 

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Topic Summary
i look back over the last two years of my life with all the experiences i have read about here and other places and these are three experiences that stand out to me.
recently in another post a girl relates her experience of being in the borg and her mom literally threw her away by giving her over to the state after she accused an elder of groping her.
two; i met the man that wrote the insight books for the borg and even though he was at the time the brians of the borgs doctines when he faded his family , brother and his kids are shunning him.



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by MicaSmith 22 days ago
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Argument at the bar !
by brandnew 5 days ago 10 Replies latest 4 days ago   jw friends
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brandnew
brandnew 5 days ago

IS A HOTDOG CONSIDERED A SANDWICH ????
 +1 / -0
Heaven
Heaven 5 days ago

No, it's a tube steak.

 +1 / -0
Skedaddle
Skedaddle 5 days ago

No, according to America’s National Hot Dog and Sausage Council (NHDSC)http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/america-decides-is-the-hot-dog-a-sandwich-or-not-a6726656.html
A sandwich consists of two pieces of bread with a filling. A hotdog is one piece of bread with a slit in it and filling.
You owe me 2 minutes of life!
 +5 / -0
brandnew
brandnew 5 days ago
😂😂😂😂😂 heaven that shiiiii wuz funnnny !!!!
 
brandnew
brandnew 5 days ago
Skeddadle......not groovy.....that means i lost the argument 😡
 
brandnew
brandnew 5 days ago
So ummmmm what is a hot dog considered???
 
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 4 days ago

So ummmmm what is a hot dog considered???
A Wrap?..
Nobody seems to agree on anything,except its not a sandwich..
It needs its own category..
.

I need to go get some Beer..
Important matters like this,are best figured out with Beer..
.
.....http://i.imgur.com/eVycy.gif
......................................

 +2 / -0
fulano
fulano 4 days ago
The only thing about Sandwich I know are the narrow streets, almost got stuck there last year.
 +1 / -0
Village Idiot
Village Idiot 4 days ago
I was hoping for a bar fight when I read that title.

 
millie210
millie210 4 days ago
ok great...now Im hungry...
 

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Argument at the bar !
by brandnew 5 days ago 10 Replies latest 4 days ago   jw friends
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brandnew
brandnew 4 days ago
Y'all are funny 😂😂😂😂
 

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Topic Summary
is a hotdog considered a sandwich ???
?.



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by bohm 3 years ago
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by Terry 4 years ago



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jws deny shunning, yet lie to not look bad
by Ghiagirl 4 days ago 18 Replies latest 3 days ago   jw experiences
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Ghiagirl
Ghiagirl 4 days ago
I recently decided to take matters into my own hands with my husbands family who have nothing to do with us. His mom has seen my son twice since he has been born and his dad has never met him. His family will pop in every few months, on top of that like in my last post ask for for money. what really pissed me off is my his family suddenly is best friends with his ex wife who is a jw. Even though his ex wife cheated on my husband with a ministerial servant, had an abortion, and continues to make my husband and I's life a living hell. But because she is a jw, all of a sudden They sit and tell me that SHE wants what's best for my family?! Excuse me. So basically I sent my husbands mother a text telling her I am disappointed you do not try to see our son, although we make it very easy if you wanted too. And I told her I do not appreciate her and her family telling my people my husband and I do not allow any of them to see our son. So on top of everything they are all lying to people. And we obviously know why....because these people are too ashamed and embarrassed to tell people they shun their son and grandson because of religion. Jehovahs people are supposed to be honest though aren't they? That brings me to mentioning shunning, his mother tries to flip things back on my saying, well you were raised a witness, I don't know where shunning came from. Wtf?! Are these people brain washed or just stupid. So in reply I said, well yes I was raised, I specifically remember sitting at an assembly one year, and the title of one talk was, Shun Your Loved Ones that are Disfellowshipped, if your family having nothing to do with mine isn't shunning, then I don't know what shunning is. And of course...no reply. Even on jw.org, they deny shunning! I don't even understand. Someone please explain. Also if any others deal with ex mates you share kids with that are jws. I just can't believe I have my husbands mother telling me his ex wants what's best for my family. You have that nasty woman and shove it. She makes my life a living hell, but suddenly because my family doesn't go to your meetings we are incapable of parenting and my husbands ex knows and wants what's best for us. Screw you people. Ignorant.
 +13 / -0
zeb
zeb 4 days ago

I recall an Awake with sorrowing parents on the cover with young person leaving through the front door behind them and the article saying what a great thing 'Shunning is".
What are they asking for money for? Why aret they going to their elders for money or the wts itself?
 +2 / -0
lurkernomore
lurkernomore 4 days ago

As a father of two and having exited the cult a couple years ago I say cut them loose. Life's short God dammit.
My wife and I have made it perfectly clear to my mother that if she decided to shun us if we ever got dfd that she'd be the one losing out, as shed be the one to cut her relationship with her grandchildren.
You don't deserve to be treated this way oh and I would tell your husbands ex to royally F@#k off!
Live your lives and be as happy as can be!
 +6 / -0
Black Sheep
Black Sheep 4 days ago
Don't tell them anything, even if they really need to know it. Just hammer them with questions until they have no option but to admit to the doctrine/history/statement they want to hide. If they are dishonest, use questions to corner them into having to admit it, then give them a guilt trip for trying to scam you.

 +3 / -0
carla
carla 4 days ago

Why on earth would you want grandparents like that to have anything whatsoever to do with your children? Surely you have seen the posts here and elsewhere how grandma/pa try to convert the grandchildren, tell the grandchildren that the parents (their own children) are filled with satan or will be destroyed at the big A or try to sneak them to the kh while in their care.
Protect your children from people like this, you all will be better off now and in the future.
Communities and nursing homes are filled with lonely older adults who would love to become surrogate grandparents.
If the jw grandparents are willing to visit in YOUR home and have normal non religious (no mention of jw's, jehovah, etc..) play games, eat with the ENTIRE family and so forth that would be one thing but if they cannot or will not then you have some hard decisions to make.

 +4 / -0
alcyone
alcyone 4 days ago

re shunning
there is kind of external / internal doctrine of shunning:
External: We shun murderers, thieves, ... according to the Bible principles. We do not break families, normal family relationship continues. see here: https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/shunning/

this is what they pretend toward the public.
Internal: see the paragraph 7 here: http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2016127

This is what the org teaches in the meetings, talk, conventions.

They can always try to trick somebody and pick the right version based on audience.
And I fully agree with Carla. Either they stop shunning or it is better not to allow grandchildren to spend time with them, They will try to instill Watchtower into the children' minds.

 +5 / -0
babygirl30
babygirl30 4 days ago

Im so sorry you are going through this, and believe me, I know all too well the pain of shunning. My parents shun me, and make NO attmepts to hide it in public, at family functions, etc. It was last summer at my family reunion that it all came out the LIES my father has been telling everyone as to why he and my mother do not acknowledge my existence!! That broke my heart...these 2 elderly adults vehemently deny that their shunning is religiously based, and instead say that it is ME and how I am pulling the wool over everyones eyes. Their ignoring me is not their choice but mine? That if people want to know why we dont speak, to ask ME?
The thing is, their delusion is so thin, that 99% of rational thinking human beings can see right through it - thankfully. And the lies they tell are ONLY believed by those in the org. Remember, thats what we were always taught...those the get DFd is because they werent repentant, not because 3 untrained men sealed their fate. And they will continue to point blame in your direction, as if their choice to shun was made by you. It is so sad and pathetic that they feel people are that dumb to believe it. Hugs to you and your husband. I would put s hault on any financial assistance to them...especially if they cannot even show respect enougj to you.
 +5 / -0
Vidiot
Vidiot 4 days ago

Once again, for the newbies, lurkers, and trolls...
x
...if you have to cheat to defend your beliefs, your beliefs don't deserve to be defended.
 +3 / -0
berrygerry
berrygerry 4 days ago

I agree with the other posts.
By the way, we all know WT specifies "to shun."
Get those toxics out of your life, and out of your children's lives.
Shun them.
Tell them until they decide to live like TRUE Christians, that you want nothing more to do with them.
March 15, 1955 WT
“Having a Form of Godly Devotion”
WHAT motive prompts our religion, our form of worship? Is it love for God, for what he is and what he has done for us? Is it done because we want to praise and honor him? Or is it based on what we hope to get out of it, because of some material benefits we hope to receive, such as being thought well of by others? Are we worshiping God with spirit and truth, or are we having only “a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power”?—2 Tim. 3:5, NW.

 
dubstepped
dubstepped 4 days ago
You can't get healthy interactions from toxic people. Don't expect it.
 +3 / -1

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jws deny shunning, yet lie to not look bad
by Ghiagirl 4 days ago 18 Replies latest 3 days ago   jw experiences
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Iown Mylife
Iown Mylife 4 days ago

They have given the living demonstration of what sort of people they are, which fits the sort of religion they cling to. Now you know how dumb they really are.
When we were still in there were lots of crap like that going on. If these asses attend all the meetings it didn't matter WHAT else they did!
It is really bad but at least they aren't fooling you anymore.
Marina
 +1 / -0
flipper
flipper 4 days ago

GHIAGIRL- I'm so sorry that you have to deal with your husbands toxic family and this shunning issue. This shunning issue hits many of us ex-JW's after awhile. I have an almost 6 month old grandson that my JW daughter and her husband won't let me meet in person - apparently until I start going back to JW meetings. That's NOT going to happen.
I'm not going to be manipulated by these smarmy, dishonest tactics in order to meet my grandchild . I'll meet him on MY terms at THEIR house or another location - not a goddamned Kingdom Hall.
Don't give in to your husbands JW families manipulation techniques. They are TAUGHT these techniques from the WT leaders and their indoctrination through their meetings and publications. At least you have more CONTROL in you and your husbands situation - you HAVE the child - I don't. My daughter controls the situation with my grandson. So I REALLY have to be careful and avoid setting my daughter off - or I'll NEVER see my grandson.
But it doesn't teach these cult members anything to give in to their unreasonable and unethical demands. It's best to stand your ground, stand up to them and protect your son. Just know that you aren't suffering alone dealing with these mind controlled people- many of us are experiencing this. We are here for you to sound off to. Take care. Hang in there, Peace out, Mr. Flipper
 +3 / -0
Iown Mylife
Iown Mylife 4 days ago

The convention coming up this year has a talk on the program titled Shun Unrepentant Wrongdoers. So looks like despite their protests denying the fact that they do shun, they will be bringing out a fresh look at the subject of when and why the jw shun. Their attempt to justify the cult mind control.
Marina
 +2 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 4 days ago


jws deny shunning, yet lie to not look bad
JW`s are trained to parrot WBT$ Canned Propaganda/WBT$ Responses..
They are also trained to be able to hold 2 conflicting points of view on any given subject..
I`ve had JW`s come to my door,tell me JW`s don`t lie..
Then admit to Theocratic Warfare Strategy/WBT$ Approved Lying..
Your never going to get the Truth from a JW..
They aren`t capable of it..
.
......................Image result for Watchtower logo blue
Image result for canned responses
 +3 / -0
TTWSYF
TTWSYF 4 days ago

Outlaw, I CANT believe that you didn;t have a cartoon for your point.
What give?
 +1 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 4 days ago

.
.....Image result for bwa-ha-ha-ha
 +2 / -0
TTWSYF
TTWSYF 3 days ago
I stand corrected
 
steve2
steve2 3 days ago

I feel for you. I really do. Just not a good move to text your husband's mother to make your point. It'll just feed into her prejudiced mentality.
I accept that it's terribly hard on your family - but texts are too easily misconstrued (at the best of times) and ignored (at the worst).
 
Juan Viejo2
Juan Viejo2 3 days ago

While my JW parents and family members were not as hardline as other JW families I knew, they still made it clear to me and one of my siblings that we could not participate in normal family relationships. They presented that to us in a way that made that choice OURS, not THEIRS. All we had to do to be a part of the family again was for us to decide to return to the family as Jehovah's Witnesses.
My parents were not totally hardline "shunners" - and if I did show up their home in the middle of the night unannounced after driving 2000 miles - they would not turn me away. They'd give me a pillow, a blanket, and offer me the couch. The next day they would feed me and even treat me well while I was there. They would not throw me out or force me to go to a hotel (unless I brought my girlfriend along with me). At the same time they seemed uncomfortable - you know - like Jehovah was looking down on them and frowning upon them as long as I was there in their home or we were socializing to some extent. But my father still enjoyed watching a football game on TV with us in his home.
The same way when my brother and I would attend their funerals. We were welcome to attend, but not invited to sit with the JW family during the session. We were welcome to come to the house to be fed, but were supposed to stand off by ourselves so that all the JWs who were there would know that we were "tainted" and could properly avoid us. Some didn't get the word before shaking our hands and getting our apostate cooties on them.
But I do give them credit for making it clear to us that they did not like all of the rules, nor did they even agree with most of them. But they still wanted to be "faithful to Jehovah." The day after my mother's funeral my father had a rather heated conversation with another elder. Essentially he told the elder to mind his own business when it came to our personal family matters. "Well Bro. X, the circuit servant who gave your mother's funeral talk (BFD), met your sons and shook their hands not knowing they were disfellowshipped. You should not have allowed them to come to your house for the reception."
"My house. My rules when it involves my family. My sons have every right to be here for their mother's funeral and I will not exclude them. If you were offended by their being here, then you should get over it - or do what you have to do. I will answer to Jehovah for what happens in my home and with my family."
I know for a fact that my parents did not agree with the JW shunning rules and my father made it known to us in his own sometimes awkward ways. At the same time, they had been faithful JWs for 30-40 years and felt that it was too late for them to give up the "truth" after all that time.
I know for a fact that my mother and father did not personally agree with the shunning doctrine. But they lived with it because they felt they had too much invested as JWs to fight the rules. One of the only times I ever heard my father cry on the phone was when he told me that he could no longer invite me to his home, nor would he visit me again (because I was disfellowshipped) sometime around 1972 as the "stay alive 'til '75!" frenzy was going on. The next time I remember him doing that was when the Watchtower once again reinstated and hardened the DF rules shortly after the Raymond Franz ouster in 1981. He was very upset knowing that he would have to tow the WT line even though he personally did not agree with shunning of family members.
JV
 +1 / -0

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i recently decided to take matters into my own hands with my husbands family who have nothing to do with us.
his mom has seen my son twice since he has been born and his dad has never met him.
his family will pop in every few months, on top of that like in my last post ask for for money.



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Article from Jamaica: Jehovah's Witnesses' properties for sale - Rising costs force religious group to go small
by AndersonsInfo 4 days ago 36 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw friends
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AndersonsInfo
AndersonsInfo 4 days ago
http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/news/20160410/jehovahs-witnesses-properties-sale-rising-costs-force-religious-group-go-small


 




Jehovah's Witnesses' properties for sale - Rising costs force religious group to go small











 


Sunday | April 10, 2016 | 12:00 AM by Erica Virtue
















Norman Grindley

The Jehovah’s Witnesses Kingdom Hall on Cowper Drive which is up for sale.










◦



A cash crunch is forcing the Jehovah's Witnesses Church in Jamaica to join its colleagues around the world in offloading some of its real estate as part of cost-saving measures.
The church is selling some of its larger temples and other buildings, as it tries to operate from smaller, less expensive, and easier to maintain facilities.
One large temple, located on Cowper Drive, close to Washington Boulevard in St Andrew, is among the properties on sale, and sources say the religious group is asking $45 million for the property.
Four other auditoriums, on Elletson Road and Giltress Street in east Kingston, one in Waterhouse, and one in August Town, St Andrew, are also up for sale.
A local Witness, who asked not to be named as he is not an official spokesperson for the religious group, told The Sunday Gleaner that some local properties have already been sold while others are on offer to the highest bidder.
HIGH OVERHEADS
According to the Witness, high overheads forced the religious body to take the action.
"Maintenance and electricity costs are killers. And the improvements in technology have made it easier for communication between individuals, and so staffing for the temples became redundant," said the Witness.
When our news team contacted the headquarters of the Jehovah's Witnesses in the United States, a representative said he was not an official spokesperson for the religious group and could not speak on the record.
"All the answers you are seeking can be found on our website. With respect to Jamaica, go to the website and use the search facility, enter yearbook, branch consolidation and you should get an answer," said the representative.
But no information specific to the sale of the properties in Jamaica was found.
The religious group had previously announced that as of September 2012, the oversight of more than 20 of its branch offices would be closed and transferred to larger branches.
"In recent years, improvements in communications and printing technology have reduced the need for personnel in some branches. With fewer people working at larger branches, room became available that could be used for housing some who were working in smaller branches in other countries," said the Witness who spoke with our news team.
According to the organisation's website, "Because of the mergers, qualified ministers who had been serving in small branches can now concentrate on preaching the good news."
The group, whose members are well known for their door-to-door preaching and distribution of the Watchtower and Awake magazines, has also seen a scaling down of this activity, particularly in the Corporate Area, in recent times.
Younger Witnesses are "studying and securing jobs for themselves and their families, so the large numbers are not there anymore. But we still have Witnesses," said one local member of the church.
At the last check, in 2011, Jamaica recorded 50,849 Jehovah's Witnesses, up from 44,203 10 years earlier.
 +18 / -0
ToesUp
ToesUp 4 days ago
Thank you for sharing. This is good news!
 +5 / -0
shepherdless
shepherdless 4 days ago

I assume that $45 million sale price quoted in the article is Jamaican dollars, which is equivalent to around US$370,000. (At least according to a currency converter on the net.)
 +6 / -0
dropoffyourkeylee
dropoffyourkeylee 4 days ago

It's curious that they Call them 'temples'. I don't recall hearing that before. Maybe the news writer chose the word.
So would this article be about the branch buildings or Kingdom or assembly Halls?
i don't know much about Jamaica, but 45 million seems like a lot. I see it must be in Jamaican currency.
 +1 / -0
alanv
alanv 4 days ago
Good point to make shepherdess. Looking at the picture of the hall, it must be Jamaican dollars I think
 +1 / -0
shepherdless
shepherdless 4 days ago

At the last check, in 2011, Jamaica recorded 50,849 Jehovah's Witnesses, up from 44,203 10 years earlier.
But according to the last Yearbook, there were 11,815 average publishers (down from 11,889) spread across 188 congregations, and 37,111 memorial attendees.
 +4 / -0
Vidiot
Vidiot 4 days ago


"At the last check, in 2011, Jamaica recorded 50,849 Jehovah's Witnesses, up from 44,203 10 years earlier."
Ah, but how many are there now, in 2016?
And if there's growth, does it simply match overall population growth?
And how many are Conscious-Classers, inactives, memorial-only attenders, or unbaptized teenagers planning to quit once they're grown up and moved out?
 +2 / -1
SafeAtHome
SafeAtHome 4 days ago
Love it that they are having a "cash crunch". Then they say "younger Witnesses are studying and securing jobs for themselves". GOOD FOR THEM!! (Worth shouting about). Which would maybe mean that the younger ones with better education, better jobs are NOT contributing to pick up any slack in the coffers. Wonderful.

 +3 / -0
ToesUp
ToesUp 4 days ago

When our news team contacted the headquarters of the Jehovah's Witnesses in the United States, a representative said he was not an official spokesperson for the religious group and could not speak on the record.



It always amazes me. When the story for WT is negative. They always seem to have a problem finding an official spokesperson? Hmmm!




 +7 / -1
James Jack
James Jack 4 days ago
Maybe it cost effective to sell the Assembly Halls and just rent facilities.
 

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Article from Jamaica: Jehovah's Witnesses' properties for sale - Rising costs force religious group to go small
by AndersonsInfo 4 days ago 36 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw friends
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TheOldHippie
TheOldHippie 4 days ago
Seems the journalist must have looked at the wrong country, the number of JWs do not make any sense.

 +3 / -1
dropoffyourkeylee
dropoffyourkeylee 4 days ago
Recent yearbooks show about 11000 to 12000 witnesses in Jamaica, so the writer must have made a mistake.
 +1 / -0
mana11
mana11 4 days ago
LOL

 
eyeuse2badub
eyeuse2badub 4 days ago

dropoffyourkeyleean hour ago
"Recent yearbooks show about 11000 to 12000 witnesses in Jamaica, so the writer must have made a mistake."
Just like it takes $5 million Jamaican dollar to equal $370,000 "real dollars", so it takes 44,000 to 50,000 Jamaican dubs to equal 11,000 to 12,000 "real dubs".
Or, maybe we just need to be "overlapping" the real numbers several times to get up to 50,000 dubs.
In any case, it's so refreshing to hear the good news of the tremendous decrease 'from a distant land'!
just saying!
eyeuse2badub
 +7 / -0
flipper
flipper 4 days ago

Same old rhetoric from JW spokesmen, " All the answers you are seeking can be found on our website. " Uh-huh. You mean the " answers " indicating the WT Society's financial fallout from overextending themselves in far too many construction costs and loans and how even Bank of America has refused to extend credit to the WT Society due to them defaulting on loans previously ? You mean the " answers " indicating WT Society's refusal to answer questions in court upon demands by judges concerning the 23,000 pedophiles in their organization they have a Database file on - AND that the WT Society is in financial stress due to possibly over a minimum of 100 + child abuse lawsuits against them in process worldwide right now ? You mean those kind of answers ? Interesting- I don't see that information on your website.
Also this quote is interesting, " Because of the mergers, qualified ministers who had been serving in small branches can now concentrate on preaching the good news. "
Translation : " We don't have enough financial capability to keep long time " well trained " workers at our Bethel facilities - so we have to send them back to their home congregations and let their friends and family try to put them to work. If they stay busy in the ministry- we are confident God Jehovah will drop any employment into these 65 year old faithful servants laps ! Be assured of our " warm Christian love ".
Anybody know how to vomit ? Peace out, Mr. Flipper
 +12 / -0
joe134cd
joe134cd 4 days ago
I'm guessing that they got the 50,000 membership mark by going off the Jamaican census.
 +1 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 4 days ago


Article from Jamaica: Jehovah's Witnesses' properties for sale - Rising costs force religious group to go small
WatchTower Real Estate Business Be Goin Down De Tubes Mon..
...................Best Ting Dey Leave De Island For Good..

.................Image result for jamaican man
 +6 / -0
ScenicViewer
ScenicViewer 4 days ago


"Maintenance and electricity costs are killers...." said the Witness.
Really?
Maintenance and electricity costs are the most basic costs of owning property. Since when can the "owner of all the gold and silver in the universe [Jehovah]," as Watchtower has previously claimed, and Who is supposed to be their backer, not afford such basic costs?
This suggests that Jehovah has nothing to do with the Watchtower organization and never has.

 +12 / -0
LV101
LV101 4 days ago

Outlaw -- LOL! If only they were going down the tubes in US. Unfortunately, there are too many desperate souls to be preyed upon ready to buy their magic.
All this wonderful, secular, education, out there and the majority of society does not have the opportunity to learn. Sad.
 +5 / -0
ScenicViewer
ScenicViewer 4 days ago


A local Witness, who asked not to be named as he is not an official spokesperson for the religious group, told The Sunday Gleaner that some local properties have already been sold while others are on offer to the highest bidder.
- And -

When our news team contacted the headquarters of the Jehovah's Witnesses in the United States, a representative said he was not an official spokesperson for the religious group and could not speak on the record.
It's funny how out of 8 million preachers who are 'boldly declaring the good news,' working on behalf of 'God's spirit directed organization' on earth today, nobody wants to be a spokesperson all of a sudden.

 +6 / -0

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http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/news/20160410/jehovahs-witnesses-properties-sale-rising-costs-force-religious-group-go-small jehovah's witnesses' properties for sale - rising costs force religious group to go small.
sunday | april 10, 2016 | 12:00 am by erica virtue.
norman grindley.



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Article from Jamaica: Jehovah's Witnesses' properties for sale - Rising costs force religious group to go small
by AndersonsInfo 4 days ago 36 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw friends
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steve2
steve2 4 days ago

Not much growth in publishers in Jamaica since at least 1998. In that year, there was a peak of 11,003 publishers, while last year there was a peak of 11,991 - which was a -1 decrease over 2014.
Memorial numbers showed greater growth: In 1998, 28,063 attended but in 2015, 37,111 did so.
 +2 / -0
Heaven
Heaven 4 days ago

We are continuing to witness Jehovah's chariot slamming into reverse.

 +6 / -0
Diogenesister
Diogenesister 4 days ago

y. Since when can the "owner of all the gold and silver in the universe [Jehovah]," as Watchtower has previously claimed, and Who is supposed to be their backer, not afford such basic costs?
Well, this is the same god who couldn't defeat a tribe due to their " chariots with IRON RIMMED WHEELS" Judges 1:19!!!!
 +1 / -0
blondie
blondie 3 days ago
Eventually the WTS won't have property to sell and the rank and file will be operating out of private homes.
 +8 / -0
steve2
steve2 3 days ago

It's doubtful the discrepancy between the number of JWs cited in the article and the actual "official" number is due to the former being based on census data. There is no land on earth in which census data would be four plus times the actual number of JWs (4 x 12,000).
In New Zealand, where peak publishers have hovered around 14,000 for years, the latest census data recorded just over 17,000 JWs - which obviously includes babies and inactive ones who still identify as JWs.
 
pepperheart
pepperheart 3 days ago
What are they doing with the money that they are saving not printing 50 million magazinnes around the world each month ??????

 +1 / -0
Magnum
Magnum 3 days ago

from the article:
The group, whose members are well known for their door-to-door preaching and distribution of the Watchtower and Awake magazines, has also seen a scaling down of this activity, particularly in the Corporate Area, in recent times.
I'd love more info on that.


 Younger Witnesses are "studying and securing jobs for themselves and their families, so the large numbers are not there anymore. But we still have Witnesses," said one local member of the church.
That is extremely interesting.
 
Vidiot
Vidiot 3 days ago


Blondie - "Eventually the WTS won't have property to sell and the rank and file will be operating out of private homes."
Ten bucks says if that happens, the Org'll then try and spin it as "growth" by listing each Witness household as an individual congregation. :smirk:
 +1 / -0
sparky1
sparky1 3 days ago



Anybody know how to vomit? - Flipper
 +1 / -0
steve2
steve2 3 days ago

Younger Witnesses are "studying and securing jobs for themselves and their families, so the large numbers are not there anymore. But we still have Witnesses," said one local member of the church.
Interesting disclosure - probably not from an officially assigned spokesperson! This could in part explain how the peak number of JWs in Jamaica has not grown much from 1998 until the present.
 

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http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/news/20160410/jehovahs-witnesses-properties-sale-rising-costs-force-religious-group-go-small jehovah's witnesses' properties for sale - rising costs force religious group to go small.
sunday | april 10, 2016 | 12:00 am by erica virtue.
norman grindley.



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Article from Jamaica: Jehovah's Witnesses' properties for sale - Rising costs force religious group to go small
by AndersonsInfo 4 days ago 36 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw friends
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wifibandit
wifibandit 3 days ago

Jamaica

Service Year
Peak Publishers

1988 8,545
1989 8,623
1990 9,166
1991 9,430
1992 9,477
1993 9,342
1994 9,890
1995 10,489
1996 10,699
1997 10,614
1998 11,003
1999 11,030
2000 11,312
2001 11,059
2002 11,233
2003 11,055
2004 11,078
2005 11,174
2006 11,240
2007 11,641
2008 11,941
2009 11,954
2010 12,227
2011 12,233
2012 12,088
2013 12,263
2014 12,126
2015
11,911
 



 
Vidiot
Vidiot 2 days ago


dropoffyourkeylee - "It's curious that they Call them 'temples'. I don't recall hearing that before. Maybe the news writer chose the word."
Or a translation thing.
 
shepherdless
shepherdless 2 days ago

Since this thread is still going...
The reference to "temples" in the news article was probably just the reporter not knowing the correct terminology.
After I first commented on the article, I did a brief bit of research. It appears that the result of the 2011 census was as follows (I could only find percentages on wikipedia, not actual numbers):
Protestant 64.8%, comprising : Seventh Day, Adventist 12.0%, Pentecostal 11.0%, Other Church of God 9.2%, New Testament Church of God 7.2%, Baptist 6.7%, Church of God in Jamaica 4.8%, Church of God of Prophecy 4.5%, Anglican 2.8%, United Church 2.1%, Methodist 1.6%, Revived 1.4%, Brethren 0.9%, Moravian 0.7%;
Roman Catholic 2.2%;
Jehovah's Witness 1.9%;
Rastafarian 1.1%;
other 6.5%;
none 21.3%;
unspecified 2.3%.



I did find the census form on the following website (bottom left corner):
http://statinja.gov.jm/Popcensus.aspx



I suspect that the reason the census suggested that 1.9% of the population were JW's (instead of around 0.6%) is a combination of the following:
(1) Jehovahs Witnesses are high on the list of religions to choose on the census form.
(2) Most people chose a religion on the census (nearly 80%) despite "no religion" being a clear option on the form, and I suspect there is a social tendency to associate with a religion, if only in name.
(3) The country has a literacy rate of 88%, which is one of the worst in the world outside of Africa.


I think a similar explanation applies to a number of other surprising percentages and absences in the list above. Every religion listed above, was specifically on the census form. The absence of Mormons (for example) is probably because they were not specifically listed as an option.
---------------------

Separately, I think the substance of the article indicates that Watchtower is still cost cutting and selling assets wherever possible, even after sending home all those bethelites and releasing those special pioneers. Watchtower must still be under some cashflow stress.


 
SonoftheTrinity
SonoftheTrinity 2 days ago
Jamaica is probably the poorest of Her Majesty's Realms within the commonwealth, so calling it a 'Temple' instead of a 'Kingdom Hall' might have actually been done out of courtesy to the Queen.
 
TheOldHippie
TheOldHippie 2 days ago
Do many Jamaicans emigrate to the US or elsewhere to find a job? In many East European countries and also in African ones there is little Growth in the YB numbers, but that is because many JWs have left for Western Europe to get a job. So there IS growth, but it surfaces as foreign-speaking congregations in other countries. Is it easy for Jamaicans to emigrate?
 +0 / -1
SonoftheTrinity
SonoftheTrinity 2 days ago

Maybe if they come up with a Jamaican Patois New World Translation they can drum up New Jamaican Congregations out of thin air and call it growth.
Puradvencha dem kom op wid a Jumiekan Patwa Nyuu Wurold Chranzlieshan dem ka jrom op a woliipa Nyuu Jumiekan Kangregieshan dem outa tin ier an chat seh a gruo dem a gruo.
 
JWdaughter
JWdaughter 2 days ago
I am sure that the property will be much more useful for a hotel or retail chain to own in the tropical paradise vacation spot of Jamaica than it would be for the local Jehovah's Witnesses. The. Can use the local church or school to meet in!
 

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http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/news/20160410/jehovahs-witnesses-properties-sale-rising-costs-force-religious-group-go-small jehovah's witnesses' properties for sale - rising costs force religious group to go small.
sunday | april 10, 2016 | 12:00 am by erica virtue.
norman grindley.



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/ Did Freddy Franz receive secret instructions from a Jewish aquaintance?
/  





 

Did Freddy Franz receive secret instructions from a Jewish aquaintance?
by truthseeker 4 days ago 14 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw friends
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truthseeker
truthseeker 4 days ago

I recently met a sister who told me she heard of a story that the late President of the Watchtower Society, Mr. Freddy Franz, received secret instructions on how to direct the organization from a Jewish acquaintance.
Is this a conspiracy theory or could there be some truth to it?
Truthseeker

 +1 / -0
nonjwspouse
nonjwspouse 4 days ago
How does this make sense? How can it be a theory when there is no information whatsoever.

 
truthseeker
truthseeker 4 days ago
That's why I posted the topic.

 +1 / -0
truthseeker
truthseeker 4 days ago
I know it seems outrageous, but look at all the changes that have happened recently. If I had advance knowledge of all the changes Watchtower made from 2005 onwards and posted it on the forum, I would have been labelled a conspiracy theorist. We seem to accept all the weird changes in stride now, because we're so used to them changing things.

 +2 / -0
truthseeker
truthseeker 4 days ago

OK, I found an old link..

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/207251/whats-going-on-100-henry-street?page=1



"Fred Franz played a big role as the "oracle" of the Society. " But he became a figure head to conceal that the real directing influence of the WT Society was outside of the Society. A big 6'2" Jewish man has gone everywhere with Fred Franz as his guide these last few decades. This man, Natheer Salih, was needed because Fred became blind. However, for many years people at Bethel found that Salih was more like a bodyguard. Indeed, he was more than a bodyguard, for any communication to Franz has been going through Salih, who then returns with the "answer" from Franz. This Jewish man with obvious rich tastes, big expensive rings and watches, has become the President's mouthpiece, and in effect a decision-maker although he isn't part of theGoverning Body.29 Salih was in a position to protect against an old man saying the wrong thing."



http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/243241/who-really-faithful-discreet-natheer-salih?page=1



 +2 / -0
nonjwspouse
nonjwspouse 4 days ago

Birdie, are you reading this?
Orphan Crow is one of the most dedicated researcher on the topic of the JW out there. Send her a PM asking this question. Maybe she can shed some light. I just know I have not hard of this one before, and I have been researching regularly for quite some time.

 +2 / -0
dropoffyourkeylee
dropoffyourkeylee 4 days ago
I always thought it a bit odd that there were frequent references to the Jewish calendar, and that the WT used CE and BCE, which are used in Jewish literature and modern Israel.
 +2 / -0
compound complex
compound complex 3 days ago

I met the Jewish man in question. He gave our Memorial talk years ago.
Unless there are two men by that name, the description above doesn't match, in the least, the brother I know. However, I cannot vouch for his past relationship with FF.
CC
 +2 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 3 days ago

No he was all corrupt on his own and self acknowledged himself as academically trained bible scholar , he wasn't .

 +2 / -0
Vidiot
Vidiot 3 days ago

Would that have made Franz a closet Zionist?
'Cause (according to Barb Anderson) he was definitely a closet Millerite.
 +2 / -0

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Did Freddy Franz receive secret instructions from a Jewish aquaintance?
by truthseeker 4 days ago 14 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw friends
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sparrowdown
sparrowdown 3 days ago
Possible I suppose. Wasn't FF the one the others referred to as "The Oracle" ? If so, I always thought it an odd nickname for a supposed man of God.
 
nonjwspouse
nonjwspouse 3 days ago
Russell was a zionest http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/zionism.php

 +1 / -0
compound complex
compound complex 2 days ago

correction:
I met the Jewish man in question. He gave our Memorial talk years ago.
The brother I met is not Jewish, but from another middle eastern country.
CC
 
alecholmesthedetective
alecholmesthedetective 2 days ago
I found this link about Franz being a Millerite at heart, from Freeminds:
http://www.freeminds.org/women/millerite_franz.htm
I had never read that before, very enlightening and explains a lot.
 
SonoftheTrinity
SonoftheTrinity 2 days ago
Natheer Salih sounds more like a Shiite name than a Jewish one. BTW Natheer Salih would translate from the Arabic as almost a pun 'Earnest Warner', particularly poignant in this situation.
 

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Topic Summary
i recently met a sister who told me she heard of a story that the late president of the watchtower society, mr. freddy franz, received secret instructions on how to direct the organization from a jewish acquaintance.. is this a conspiracy theory or could there be some truth to it?.
truthseeker.



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Former DO comments on Overlapping Generations
by James Jack 4 days ago 26 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw experiences
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James Jack
James Jack 4 days ago

Brother Richard (Dick) Morlan, a former CO & DO for many years, now lives in Gadsden Alabama, USA. He is 77 years old. I saw him at a recent Assembly in Dekalb County Alabama and ask him about the prospects of him dying in this "System of Things".
His reply was, "I am going to make it till Armageddon, but if I should die before then, then the Governing Body is going to have to add another Overlapping Generation to another Overlapping Generations"!
I laughed at first, be he wasn't laughing. Then I said: "I hate to think that could happen"!
 +19 / -0
James Jack
James Jack 4 days ago
He still does Sub CO work and he had a part on the Assembly Program.
 +1 / -0
nonjwspouse
nonjwspouse 4 days ago

oh the webs the mind will weave to protect the emotional beliefs...
I wonder if he ever met Ray while he was nearby?

My inlaws went to the one in Dalton..

 +2 / -0
joe134cd
joe134cd 4 days ago
Oh well at least he's got a sense of humour about the whole thing. Good for you Richard.
 +1 / -1
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 4 days ago

Sounds to me like he's accepted the fact that something is wrong with the Overlap Doctrine (or he wouldn't be joking about it), but at 77 years of age and having been a prominent JW for all of his life, what is he to do now? Question the GODs (Guardians of Doctrine) and get tossed out on his A$$ while losing all of his friends and life-long associates who give him respect and honor for his life's "work"? Never.
He has already accepted the fact that he will probably die without seeing the New World. He is "hoping" there really will be a resurrection. At this point in his life, that's the only "hope" he has on which to cling.
Sad story. There are millions of them.
Doc

 +12 / -0
blondie
blondie 3 days ago

wasn't Gadsden the congregation Ray and Cynthia went to after leaving Bethel and before Ray was da'd by the WTS. Gregerson was an elder there too.
Raymond and his wife relocated to Gadsden, Alabama, where they attempted to continue their lives as quietly as possible as ordinary Jehovah's Witnesses. Within a few months time, the local JW congregation even recommended to Bethel that Raymond be appointed as a local congregation Elder. However, Bethel denied the congregation's request, and sent in a new Circuit Overseer whose job apparently was to see to it that the Gadsden congregation disfellowshiped Raymond out of the organization -- something Raymond's Uncle Frederic and the other members of the Governing Body had not had the intestinal fortitude to do themselves. (Interestingly, the Governing Body had even sent Raymond an unsolicited "gift" of $10,000.00 after he had resigned and moved to Alabama.) Having no existing charge against Raymond, the GB changed JW organizational policy to make it a disfellowshiping offense for a JW to associate with a disassociated person. "Coincidentally", Raymond's employer, who was also his landlord, had just recently disassociated himself. Within a matter of weeks the Gadsden "good fellas" obeyed the orders of the Brooklyn "bosses" and "assassinated" (disfellowshiped) Raymond for the horrific crime of eating dinner at a local restaurant with his employer-landlord.
 +16 / -0
nonjwspouse
nonjwspouse 3 days ago
Blondie, it was Anniston, a smaller town very near Gadsden that was the location of Mr Gregreson's store. I have been to both towns many times myself.

 
blondie
blondie 3 days ago
But was Gadsden where the congregation was.......I was talking about that not Gregorson's store. I have met him and his wife many times over the years.
 +2 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 3 days ago

Wow Blondie! Never realised the manipulation used by the org in that case!
How disgusting.
 
steve2
steve2 3 days ago

 Oh well at least he's got a sense of humour about the whole thing. Good for you Richard.
It does sound funny, Joe, but I think the OP says he wasn't laughing.
 

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Former DO comments on Overlapping Generations
by James Jack 4 days ago 26 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw experiences
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Ignoranceisbliss
Ignoranceisbliss 3 days ago
I believed your earlier post!!! Damn it! You got me. We have another John Aquila on our hands. I'm calling BS!
 +0 / -1
Magnum
Magnum 3 days ago

Wow! It's a small world. I've been wondering about Morlan. I was at a dist conv in Tennessee in '84 or '85. It was the one during which the serious announcement was made at the end about 1986 being declared "The International Year of Peace" by the UN. Morlan had a part at that convention. I think back then he was a special pio.
He had a pretty daughter about my age. At that convention, she kept looking at me in a way as to indicate interest. It was not in a dirty or cheap way, but I could just tell she was interested. I was interested in her, too, but did not get to meet her at that convention. I found out shortly thereafter that she fell over dead while on the phone with a friend; she had a brain aneurysm. I remember being depressed because I had a crush on her.
Morlan seemed to be a hard worker. I heard stories about the sacrifices he made. I think he was one who really believed it and gave it his all.
I'd love to know what's really going on in his mind now.
His reply was, "I am going to make it till Armageddon, but if I should die before then, then the Governing Body is going to have to add another Overlapping Generation to another Overlapping Generations"!
I don't really follow that. Do you know what he meant?
 +1 / -0
Magnum
Magnum 3 days ago
Ignoranceisbliss, I'm 100% with you on John Aquila, but I think James Jack is for real. I like your skepticism, though. I think too many people defended John Aquila and never realized his stuff was BS. I fell for it at first, but finally saw the light.
 +2 / -0
Naoscillator
Naoscillator 3 days ago

I heard Morlan speak about ten years ago at my local KH. He packed the house. People came from neighboring congregations just to hear this talk he was known for giving on Revelation. It was just about the most urgent, convincing, and exciting "last days of the last days" talk I ever heard. Everyone hung on his every word, and he seemed so convicted of his material he could barely contain his own excitement. He really knew his stuff, could explain JW end times doctrine backwards and forwards and really sell it.
In light of this James Jack's story is very interesting indeed. I think some longtime DO's who are both heavily invested and knowledgable are among the most likely to have deconstructed the GB's doctrines over the years. Whether or not they can see that it's all BS I think depends more on their emotional state than on any lack of intellectual capability.
 +1 / -0
sir82
sir82 3 days ago

I remember the name, he was our DO a number of years ago, but like pretty much all DOs, I remember virtually nothing about him. Unless you were the elite of the elite, you only heard the guy talk from the stage a couple times a year, and they all pretty much gave the same talk.

It's funny that someone so brain-dead loyal would come up with the very same idea that has been discussed hundreds of times on this board (why stop at one overlap?). Maybe he sneaks a peak here? Or (more likely) some family member reads here and has been subtly dropping ideas in his head.

 
punkofnice
punkofnice 3 days ago

"I am going to make it till Armageddon, but if I should die before then..."
Well, is he or isn't he? He doesn't sound sure.
 +1 / -0
freddo
freddo 3 days ago

If his daughter dropped down dead he has double reason to hang on to the resurrection belief. He is emotionally in at age 77 because he looks down the twin barrels of his own coming demise and his daughter's previous one ...
He has been cast aside by the organizaton that used up every last drop of his energy and zeal and he enjoyed the ride and adulation. That's on one level.
On another level both he and their end time prophecies have simply run out of time.
 +1 / -0
James Jack
James Jack 3 days ago

blondie
Yes, was in Gadsden that Ray Franz was DF in. In a earlier post I mentioned that for years I had worked closely with 2 members of the Judicial Committee, (Dibble & French), on the Circuit and District, RBC level.
Richard Morlan is attending the same congregation(East), that all the parties attended. In fact, the house he is living in is a Cousin of Gregerson.
The CO/DO in the 80's that had moved to Gadsden to live and direct the JC was Willie Anderson. Willie, passed away about 15 years ago, his wife is still but, moved to Atlanta to be with their daughter 3 years ago. And boy did she have some stories to tell about the whole thing.
 
James Jack
James Jack 3 days ago

Ignoranceisbliss



What's wrong with you? I give names and real stories. Would giving phone numbers and addresses make my experiences more credible?
 +3 / -0
James Jack
James Jack 3 days ago

Magnum
Morlan is borderline on the genius/crazy stage when it comes to his humor. You have to listen to his every word, and sometimes you have to pause and say to yourself... what did he say? One time to told us a a Pioneer Meeting, he told us his best job was working on a Garbage Truck because he was able to "bring home good furniture, bicycles, etc.
I believe he was serious about adding another generation to the teaching. Almost like he would be pissed about it if they did.
 

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Topic Summary
brother richard (dick) morlan, a former co & do for many years, now lives in gadsden alabama, usa.
he is 77 years old.
i saw him at a recent assembly in dekalb county alabama and ask him about the prospects of him dying in this "system of things".. his reply was, "i am going to make it till armageddon, but if i should die before then, then the governing body is going to have to add another overlapping generation to another overlapping generations"!.



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by blondie 4 months ago



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Former DO comments on Overlapping Generations
by James Jack 4 days ago 26 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw experiences
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Ignoranceisbliss
Ignoranceisbliss 3 days ago

Fair enough. Perhaps sometimes I am too skeptical. I should of given u the benefit of my doubt.
Iggy
 +2 / -0
nonjwspouse
nonjwspouse 3 days ago

Ya iggy I'm gonna vouch for James too. never met him but he knows about our some of local stuff because he's around my neck of the woods.
Blondie, Yes Gadsden and Anniston are close to each other. I have family there and went to school there for a while. Kinda blows my mind that RF was there during the time I was spending time there. I was not even remotely involved with any JW at the time.

 +1 / -0
WingCommander
WingCommander 3 days ago
I remember so many beloved JW's of old while I was a child growing up in the 80's. They all basically said the same thing, that The End just HAS to come before they die. They were sure. Positive. It was imminent, because the WT Society said so. Guess what? They're all DEAD. ALL of them. My grandparents and parents too. They live now, only my memories.

 +2 / -0
Magnum
Magnum 3 days ago

WingCommander: I remember so many beloved JW's of old while I was a child growing up in the 80's. They all basically said the same thing, that The End just HAS to come before they die. They were sure. Positive. It was imminent, because the WT Society said so. Guess what? They're all DEAD. ALL of them.
I remember many like that, too. They really were sure. And the ones I knew were smart and well-read. Their influence is one of the main things that motivated me. One kept saying "The end is imminent; it's imminent." He and all the others are long dead.
The end was "imminent" to that particular JW 25 years ago. If there's going to be an end, it seems further away now than it did when he said it was imminent. That JW didn't live to see the current "generation" teaching. If he had, I'd love to know what he thought about it. He could be honest at times.
 +1 / -0
James Jack
James Jack 2 days ago
I think eventually the Organization will differentiate 1914 from the Last Days to make another adjustment to the Generation teaching.
 +1 / -0
Littleleslie
Littleleslie 2 days ago

James Jack,
You have a PM.
Thanks.
LL
 
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 2 days ago

The Watchtower Corporation evermore so is seen as a commercialized joke or a con job for the gullible, ignorant and naive.
Maybe that's why its leaders are curtailing much of the operations of this religious publishing house as a forwarding means to sustain itself from all those false anchoring and pretentious doctrines, which the leaders insisted that it was all approved and given by god's guiding holy spirit toward his earthly FDSL..

Hence " The Meat in Due Season " was tainted with corruptly devised self indulgent commercialism.

 

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Topic Summary
brother richard (dick) morlan, a former co & do for many years, now lives in gadsden alabama, usa.
he is 77 years old.
i saw him at a recent assembly in dekalb county alabama and ask him about the prospects of him dying in this "system of things".. his reply was, "i am going to make it till armageddon, but if i should die before then, then the governing body is going to have to add another overlapping generation to another overlapping generations"!.



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1914, leap years, and sticky math situation
by A.proclaimer 4 months ago
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Dunedain
Anybody remember those brothers that would harass, and hound the elders into making them, finally, appoint him as an elder himself?
by Dunedain a day ago
pale.emperor
The Curious Case Of Brother B
by pale.emperor 2 months ago
blondie
If a year is really 365 1/4 days why 360 days to calculate 1914
by blondie 4 months ago



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