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super heros
by Gratefullyunstuck a day ago 12 Replies latest 11 hours ago   jw friends
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Gratefullyunstuck
Gratefullyunstuck a day ago
after reading the content of the 1 day assembly on another post, PLEASE tell me WT are trying to suggest members cant follow super hero movies/characters etc. the whole of my ex family wouldnt have a life if this happened! surely a wake up call for them....... but doubt it
 
Barrold Bonds
Barrold Bonds a day ago

it's really nothing new. The WTS has already connected 'superheroes' to the nephilim.
According to them, Greek myths like Hercules came from stories of the nephilim. Superheroes are basically modern day myths, so there ya go.
Superman = Demon Child.
 
FayeDunaway
FayeDunaway a day ago

How about the utter disrespect we show to Jehovah every time we watch anything about aliens? Um, I can't remember the exact reason but something about disrespect for his creation.
And watching superhero movies is bad because they are basically gods with godlike powers and if you watch them you are glorifying, worshipping!, other gods.
They're just like the Taliban, really. Pick something extreme and run with it, enforce it on others.
 +1 / -0
Darkknight757
Darkknight757 a day ago
Couldn't Caleb and Sophia be regarded as superheroes? I mean the kids literally worship them. They have drawings and games and toys. They never get any older? Such a double standard.
 +1 / -0
compound complex
compound complex 21 hours ago

I recall a Society article years ago that decried superhero garb (specifically, that of Superman) as sexually provocative. Christians must avert eyes and thoughts away from any unclean thing. I've never seen any one of those dudes or dames fixed up in loose-fitting duds (well, in disguise; e.g., Clark Kent).
Did Anthony Morris III write that article?
CC
 +2 / -0
rebel8
rebel8 21 hours ago

Their powers come from demons.

 
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 21 hours ago

..

...........Image result for Watchtower logo brown
.........................A Place Where..

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRTyBUgRIH37SBgUE1Yr5h0HuYEp45vujBiRasQ92Wse-6KF6qIog
.....Image result for Watchtower stephen lett
 +3 / -0
Captain Schmideo2
Captain Schmideo2 20 hours ago

He has the super power of altering his face into a rubberized mask!
 
Dunedain
Dunedain 19 hours ago

Like Barrold Bonds said already, this is really nothing new. I remember a 28 year old elder, I was like 19 at the time, saying the same shit on how Superman was like a modern Hercules, and superheroes are "demonic". Its really ridiculous.
You see, this kind of "logic" is pervasive in a cult. Once its thought about, or touched upon, or mentioned at Bethel, it spreads to most congregations, like its gospel from the scriptures. Then a visiting brother will mention it in a Sunday talk, and it just further drives the crazy mindset home.
This is cultism at its worst. JW's are ignorant, of most things, and "demonize" anything they don't understand, or deem "worldly", right away, without ever truly learning about it. It is fear control, and mind control, at the same time. By them "demonizing" superheroes, by comparing them to Nephilim, the cult uses FEAR. Then they tell you what movies you cannot see, and what comics/books you cannot read, and what toys your kids cannot play with, and that's the mind control.
It is a fear based cult, controlled by ignorance.

 +2 / -0
Wild_Thing
Wild_Thing 19 hours ago

They're saying you shouldn't watch or read anything that portray's characters with superhuman qualities?? Well ... maybe they are right! These over the top superhero characters that do things like heal people just by touching them, or walk on water, or perform magic tricks, or predict the future, or appear as ghosts after they die ... those kind of books and shows are ridiculous! You read that stuff enough, you're liable to forget they're just stories and start to believe it!
 +1 / -0

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super heros
by Gratefullyunstuck a day ago 12 Replies latest 11 hours ago   jw friends
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talesin
talesin 19 hours ago

And just like fashion, 'what's old is new again'.
In the 60s/70s comic books were forbidden, except for Archie. That's why I never had any of the Batman (who, by the way, has no 'super powers').
Wonder Woman would be, I suppose, like 'nephilim', considering she is Amazon/Goddess. ; )
 
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 14 hours ago

Oh this is great...
The more this kind of stupidity is promoted, the more will wake up to the high controlling, cult like nature of the society....
 +2 / -0
punkofnice
punkofnice 11 hours ago

I remember back in the '80s, the corporation was critical of superhero comics, there was even a picture of Wolverine in the article.
It's simple. If you go to the cinema, you might be spending money that you could be putting into the contribution box. Worse still....you might buy an ice cream. We all know the watchtower steals ice cream money from children.
The Governing body have set themselves up to be worshipped as the only superheroes you need.



 +2 / -0

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Topic Summary
after reading the content of the 1 day assembly on another post, please tell me wt are trying to suggest members cant follow super hero movies/characters etc.
the whole of my ex family wouldnt have a life if this happened!
surely a wake up call for them....... but doubt it



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Pattytheperfect1
First post after a year or two of lurking on this site-Sorry for the length!
by Pattytheperfect1 2 years ago



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Prince was on the board of directors for the WTS
by Barrold Bonds a day ago 33 Replies latest 9 hours ago   jw friends
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Barrold Bonds
Barrold Bonds a day ago

I was talking with a friend of mine who knows a few people in the home department at bethel. Apparently, Prince was, as I noted in the title, on the board of directors. he apparently was sort of a silent partner or advisor in the whole thing. He'd give advice to the service and writing departments, and even to the GB itself.
I also heard that Prince personally designed the current facilities used for JW broadcasting and their other media production areas.
He's also converted a lot of other celebrities but they keep it quiet because they don't want to be outed by Hollywood. Pretty crazy. Hopefully we'll get a list soon.
 +4 / -9
Diogenesister
Diogenesister a day ago

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
That thought has given me the biggest laugh today! Thank you! If only.....
 +2 / -0
Barrold Bonds
Barrold Bonds a day ago
oh i'm totally serious. my sources confirmed. it all makes sense when you think about it.
 +1 / -5
Landy
Landy a day ago

Hmm - well I heard he was due to give the keynote talk at the next district assembly.
My mate's brother told me and he heard it from someone he knows down the pub so I can guarantee it's true.
 +7 / -0
oppostate
oppostate a day ago

Saaaayyyyy Whhhhhhaaaaaattttt!



Anything could be true, wasn't Samuel Herd Prince's Godfather?
 +4 / -0
Barrold Bonds
Barrold Bonds a day ago
Landy, that's a shame. Probably would have been the best keynote ever.
 +2 / -0
Pete Zahut
Pete Zahut a day ago
Prince was Tony Morris's go-to guy when he needed the low-down on Spanx and Tight Pants.
 +15 / -0
steve2
steve2 a day ago

When a royal dies, rumors fly.
 +5 / -0
stan livedeath
stan livedeath a day ago

not true.
prince was god.
 +2 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW a day ago


I was talking with a friend of mine who knows a few people in the home department at bethel. Apparently, Prince was, as I noted in the title, on the board of directors. he apparently was sort of a silent partner or advisor in the whole thing. He'd give advice to the service and writing departments, and even to the GB itself.
Well I was talking with a friend of mine who knows a few people in the home department at Bethel..
Evidently..
.

......Prince bought the WBT$ GB "Rock Star" Popes..
....................................A Submarine..
Image result for Private submarine
 +5 / -0

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Prince was on the board of directors for the WTS
by Barrold Bonds a day ago 33 Replies latest 9 hours ago   jw friends
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oppostate
oppostate a day ago

@OUTLAW
And isn't that the vehicle they're using now for island-to-island service in Alaska's Aleuts?
 +1 / -0
St George of England
St George of England a day ago

According to one newspaper today Prince had a secret dungeon where he locked away his lovers and made them call him God! Probably more believable than the op.
George
 +6 / -0
Hadriel
Hadriel a day ago
I find all this impossible to believe.
 +4 / -0
Barrold Bonds
Barrold Bonds a day ago
you don't say
 +0 / -1
OUTLAW
OUTLAW a day ago


@OUTLAW
And isn't that the vehicle they're using now for island-to-island service in Alaska's Aleuts?
Yes..
I also have it on Good Authority..
The WBT$ Submarine is used for transportation to WBT$/JW Assemblies..
.
..............................................................................................................WBT$ JW Alien Elder..

........................In Underwater Alien Cities..........................................Brother Blublubtictic..

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg7lCdmx1AVfu7Q1aCeupNbaFvOglER4uKsNQ-cXJDPL6gDtuOvoJ7lXennYM7RqJh_Lsb9ncFzVYAvMGwZoas1E2QV63PWNO78FXpIDtWUNumbyiErJaVD0AvWHt_eSeuBFj40wBXPJNp8/s1600/Future+Underwater+City.JPG..data:image/jpeg;base64,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
 +3 / -0
baker
baker a day ago
"a" god
 +4 / -0
joe134cd
joe134cd a day ago
Total utter nonsense.
 +3 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW a day ago


Total utter nonsense.....joe134cd
............This Message is Approved by..

Image result for communist word
 +2 / -0
notsurewheretogo
notsurewheretogo a day ago

What is it with this board and the recent spate of wind-up merchants?
This one is a cracker...
 
Landy
Landy a day ago
There's a bloke down the chip shop swears he's Elvis
 +3 / -0

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Topic Summary
i was talking with a friend of mine who knows a few people in the home department at bethel.
apparently, prince was, as i noted in the title, on the board of directors.
he apparently was sort of a silent partner or advisor in the whole thing.



Related Topics
Wild_Thing
To Continue the Theme of All Things Prince ... The Dirty Songs List
by Wild_Thing 18 hours ago
oppostate
George Cook former DO, now just an elder at Prince's home congregation KH
by oppostate 2 days ago
blondie
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-22-2015 WT Study (God Loves us?)
by blondie 5 months ago
silent
Didn't go to memorial this year
by silent a month ago
new boy
Chapter 2 of the Novel "New Boy"
by new boy a month ago



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Prince was on the board of directors for the WTS
by Barrold Bonds a day ago 33 Replies latest 9 hours ago   jw friends
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ttdtt
ttdtt a day ago
I have it from a good source that Armageddon is coming next Tuesday!
And Prince was anointed:)
 +1 / -0
berrygerry
berrygerry a day ago
Prince had actually been auditioning for the role of Austin Power's Mini-me, but got cut for not being tall enough without heels.

 +2 / -0
berrygerry
berrygerry a day ago
And, in other news, Barbara Anderson has been invited back to Bethel's Writing Department (with pay).

 +4 / -0
Wild_Thing
Wild_Thing a day ago

If it's on the internet, it has to be true, so I completely believe all of this!
I heard he paid a lot of money to the Watchtower so Anthony Morris would stop chastising him for his tight pants. I have my sources.
 +2 / -0
ShirleyW
ShirleyW a day ago
Yeah and Prince bought all the GB those huge Rolexes they wear since a Bethelite can't afford one on their own with that measly stipend they get every month, because Prince knew that JWs treat all their members the same, no matter what their rank in the Borg.
 +4 / -0
sparrowdown
sparrowdown a day ago

Plausible I suppose, there'd have to be some rich powerful "string-pullers" behind the WT's false front, why not Prince being one of them.
 +2 / -0
HappyDad
HappyDad a day ago

The GB has today given permission for that submarine is to be painted yellow. Seems they identified with some of the lyrics and thought Prince was the man who sailed the seas and told them of his life. And who was also a great source of the sea of green.
In the town where I was born  Lived a man who sailed the sea,                                                                                                                                                        And he told us of his life,   In the land of submarines                                                                                                                                   And our friends are all on board,                                                                                                                       Many more of them live next door                                                                                                                       As we live a life of ease                                                                                                                               Everyone of us has all we need                                                                                                                          Sky of blue and sea of green $$$$$$$$$                                                                                                             In our yellow submarine
HappyDad
 +1 / -0
HappyDad
HappyDad a day ago

Ok............
I edited that post 4 times and the lyrics still come out jumbled. What gives?
HappyDad
 +1 / -0
Robo Bobo
Robo Bobo 21 hours ago
Actually, Prince was one in a group that remixed the kingdom melodies. The gb was not impressed and asked that they destroy all the recordings. It was posted in this forum years ago.
 +1 / -0
violias
violias 21 hours ago

this is from CNN interesting article
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/25/entertainment/prince-religion-jehovahs-witness/index.html
 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
i was talking with a friend of mine who knows a few people in the home department at bethel.
apparently, prince was, as i noted in the title, on the board of directors.
he apparently was sort of a silent partner or advisor in the whole thing.



Related Topics
Wild_Thing
To Continue the Theme of All Things Prince ... The Dirty Songs List
by Wild_Thing 18 hours ago
oppostate
George Cook former DO, now just an elder at Prince's home congregation KH
by oppostate 2 days ago
blondie
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-22-2015 WT Study (God Loves us?)
by blondie 5 months ago
silent
Didn't go to memorial this year
by silent a month ago
new boy
Chapter 2 of the Novel "New Boy"
by new boy a month ago



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Prince was on the board of directors for the WTS
by Barrold Bonds a day ago 33 Replies latest 9 hours ago   jw friends
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violias
violias 19 hours ago

I found another really good link with some Prince interviews from the past. Note the video is not playing all that well , at least on face book.
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/2039209-prince-showed-off-his-funny-side-in-this-hilarious-appearance-on-george-lopez-show/
 
alcyone
alcyone 14 hours ago
In the next tv.jw.org broadcast Tony Morris will wear butt-less pants.

 
Half banana
Half banana 9 hours ago

I have it on good authority that Tony Morris 111, because of his poor showing on the JWTV ratings, was just about to be replaced by Prince as a new presenter.



 
MarkofCane
MarkofCane 9 hours ago
Not even the smell of truth.

 

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Topic Summary
i was talking with a friend of mine who knows a few people in the home department at bethel.
apparently, prince was, as i noted in the title, on the board of directors.
he apparently was sort of a silent partner or advisor in the whole thing.



Related Topics
Wild_Thing
To Continue the Theme of All Things Prince ... The Dirty Songs List
by Wild_Thing 18 hours ago
oppostate
George Cook former DO, now just an elder at Prince's home congregation KH
by oppostate 2 days ago
blondie
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-22-2015 WT Study (God Loves us?)
by blondie 5 months ago
silent
Didn't go to memorial this year
by silent a month ago
new boy
Chapter 2 of the Novel "New Boy"
by new boy a month ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

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DMCA

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converts from other faiths to JWs get blessings?
by TTWSYF a day ago 6 Replies latest 9 hours ago   jw experiences
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TTWSYF
TTWSYF a day ago
I don't know about YOUR experiences, but for my brother and his family, going from Catholic to Witness was [is] a disaster. He's an elder and wouldn't admit it, but his health and portfolio have drastically declined since his conversion to the JW faith. It is apparent to all who love him. Now, this may just be a coincidence, but I am wondering if any other converts lost blessings [money, health, family, etc]
 
wallsofjericho
wallsofjericho a day ago

Satan's attacking him so that's how you KNOW it's the truth
(If he was better off instead...)
Jehovah is blessing him so that's how you KNOW it's the truth
 +5 / -0
TTWSYF
TTWSYF a day ago

Satan attacking him for 25 years?
No fruits whatsoever. That just doesn't make any sense
 
sowhatnow
sowhatnow a day ago

Doesnt he see the obvious? hes worshiping men. God never expected such a sacrifice. they will tell him satan is inereferring and trying to get him to 'fall away' but in reality, hes ignoring the fact that hes been misled and has damaged his family. and who according to the bible is the first and formost important thing? your family.
so sad, I wonder what was the thing that he saw that was a benefit apart from what he was already getting before, what was the attaction?
some interesting videos here, might give you some ammo if you can even use it





 +1 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy a day ago
in my hall I quit going and have been busy with work making more money then ever. Health is ok too, knock on wood. In the mean time at the hall they have had 25 plus car accidents a bunch of people in serious health problems , people out of work loosing jobs etc. A friend I work with and refur work is also doing well since he left but the ones in his hall are also having finacial issues. So we're the ones that are blessed and the JW's are miserable.
 +1 / -0
steve2
steve2 a day ago
I'd guess that the average kingdom hall has more than its fair share of people on public out-of-work assistance/benefits and/or payouts for physical injuries. One of my JW uncles not known for his industriousness has spent most of his working life receiving accident compensation of one kind or another for sundry ailments. His JW family and friends simply accept this is the way he has to live - but its plain to those not in the religion that he's a clever free-rider. Thing is, he's typical of that "Poor me - we need Jehovah to fix it" mentality. In the meantime, these sorts in the organization avail themselves of taxpayer benefits.
 +1 / -0
WTWizard
WTWizard 9 hours ago

It was a big waste of my time. Prior to becoming a jokehovian, I had plenty of free time during the week. I worked quite a few hours during the weekend, and they were strict about exceeding 40 per week. Hence, work nights during mid-week were wimpy and I had plenty of time then. Once I became a jokehovian, I had to do field circus during those nice big blocks of open time, leaving the crumbs around the weekend as my sole free time. Blessing?
Money-wise, that year was the low point of my earnings. And I had to waste so much of that on field circus supplies and Grand Boasting Session preps. Life then was quite austere, and were it not for a major department store going out of business, I probably would have had virtually no new fun items. I got fewer new albums that year than any other during the 1980s or early 1990s, and that included the year I first started collecting back albums and had to focus on that.
As for fun, that was lame as well. Field circus ate into most of my fun time, so I rarely had time to do those weekly walks to play video games (about 12 km each way, that really helped maintain my weight). I was rarely able to enjoy my Commodore 64 computer for lack of time due to field circus. About all that was left was watching Double Dare or Fun House before going to the boasting session Thursday night.
This, for sure, is not a blessing. Due to reduced time to walk, I gained back weight I walked off in college (the Freshman 4X15 gained early, followed by walking it right back off). I rarely had time to do anything but field circus. I never had the money, because I had to throw away so much on rubbish and donations. And even then I envisioned joke-hova holding the tribulation for some 20 or more years, letting as many suffer as much as possible.

 

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Did Jesus really suffer? Really?
by purrpurr a day ago 42 Replies latest 12 hours ago   jw friends
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purrpurr
purrpurr a day ago

So over the course of three days he had a trial which doesn't seem to have bothered him much. He got whipped OK that would have been agony and then put on a torture stake/ cross/ whatever yes that would have been hell. But he was on it for a day and the whole thing lasted for three days. During the whole time he knew that it was for a noble cause (apparently) and that he would be resurrected once he died. He also knew his reward would be to rule over the universe too.
Now compare that to someone who spends years with cancer, getting weaker and weaker with the pain getting worse and worse, with their body packing up and living with the indignity of it all. Knowing all the while that once their dead no one will give them a second shot at life.
Does it really compare?
 +4 / -1
LoveUniHateExams
LoveUniHateExams a day ago

Does it really compare? - no, not with someone who's suffering from chronic illness/disease.
But, assuming there was a 1st century carpenter called Jesus and the gospel accounts of his arrest, torture and death are correct, then he would still have suffered. A lot. Death by crucifixion is inhumane. He might have been beaten by Roman guards, too. He might have been denied food and water.
Also, the Romans no doubt didn't recognize hate crimes against ethnic minorities. Jesus was a Jew, a member of an ethno-religious minority at the mercy of the Roman State. He might have been verbally and racially abused.
 +2 / -0
xjwsrock
xjwsrock a day ago

Yeah I see your point.
I have thought the same thing. On a scale from 1-10 of ways to die ,his death is up there - maybe an 8 but certainly not a 10. Many people have died worse deaths involving longer-lasting agony and more torture. Prisoners of war come to mind.
What bothers me more is the focus on how big a "sacrifice" it was. What was really sacrificed in the end? Maybe a human body? It was a body he didn't want long term anyway.
Everything was back to normal less than 3 days later. Jesus was kickin it in heaven. Jehovah had his favorite son back. Anybody that has lost a loved one has made a bigger sacrifice than this. His existence hit pause for a couple of days. The equivalent of a coma in our world.
When I hear speakers say Jehovah loved the world so much he gave his son, I just roll my eyes. He didnt lose his son. The whole story is overdramatized.
 +5 / -1
Pete Zahut
Pete Zahut a day ago

The thing that always threw me off and no one was able to answer satisfactorily,was the fact that Jesus HAD to die or be sacrificed in order to buy back the life Adam lost for mankind.
If everyone would have listened to him and accepted him how would he have paid the "ransom" ? If he was perfect and no one killed him, would he have just lived on forever?
 +4 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein a day ago

Jesus was just a character of ancient mythology, a figure of fiction credited by men for their own specific purpose and intent.
Did their endeavors create believers of their story ? yes and they were successful toward their original intent.
As a close study of ancient mythology shows that a returning earthly Messiah to help mankind of its enduring perils was not unique to the first Christians alone there were many other before the supposed life of Christ and from different civilizations.   

 +2 / -1
xjwsrock
xjwsrock a day ago

The fact that the story has survived this long despite holes in the plot, shows how desperate the average person is to be saved from this life by a superhero/father figure. I feel bad for people on the one hand and a loathing for those that have exploited this for personal gain.
 +1 / -0
Diogenesister
Diogenesister a day ago

IF there was a historical Jesus he was probably a deluded psychotic who suffered horribly and died young for no reason. Very sad.
IF IT WAS ALL JUST AS THE WITNESSES SAY THE ONLY REAL SACRIFICE ( PATSY) WAS POOR OLD JUDAS. As you say Jesus had a rotton death ( there are worse ) but after a day of suffering is living it large with his dad up in heaven...and as peteZahut correctly pointed out if we were all good and listened to Jesus where does they leave Jehovah's BIG PLAN? Someone HAD to do the betraying and as jah KNEW the result beforehand ( wheres the free will?)that someone is now condemned forever .... Now THATS what I call a sacrifice!
 +3 / -0
Diogenesister
Diogenesister a day ago
And I fail to see how Jehovah " gave" his son...three Earth days to God must be less than a millisecond to us...he knew he was getting him back anyways...any mother who waves her son off to fight for their country sacrifices a million times more for her compatriots.
 +1 / -0
LoveUniHateExams
LoveUniHateExams a day ago

three Earth days to God must be less than a millisecond to us...he knew he was getting him back anyways - this and other similar comments on this thread are absolutely correct, but can we just agree that possibly being verbally (even racially) abused, likely beaten by guards, possibly being denied adequate food and water, being nailed to a crucifix/stake and dying on it many hours later is an unpleasant way to die.
Anyone suffering the above would have seriously suffered.
 +4 / -0
purrpurr
purrpurr a day ago
I remember when I was mentally in, thinking to myself could I go through the same things that Jesus did? Well I'd been coming from his same perspective (alive since beginning of time) and if I'd known like he did that I'd be resurrected in three days and then glorified for the rest of my days then yeah. No matter what pain it involved I reckon I could suffer anything if I had that to cling on to.
 +3 / -0

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Did Jesus really suffer? Really?
by purrpurr a day ago 42 Replies latest 12 hours ago   jw friends
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prologos
prologos a day ago
would physical perfection not given perfect control over pain, copious amount of self-made morphine? perfect love kills pain too, perfectly. He certainly had perfect control over the procreation pleasure, never even a hint of temptation. wish he had lived past a thousand to prove his "second Adam" status. far worse agonies suffered by so many for so much longer. How about a real impalement, without the nails, from the bottom up?
 +3 / -0
David_Jay
David_Jay a day ago

I have to agree that the whole thing sounds silly when we use the Jehovah's Witness exegetical approach.
And before I say this, I want to make it clear I am not encouraging anyone to adopt religion, reject religion, or anything else by the following...
The non-JW view is very different when you consider that most Christians believe Jesus was the incarnation of YHWH. While it was a popular pagan and heathen concept that gods in their incarnate form would rule as kings, the idea that the incarnation of the Jewish God and King would end up experience excommunication, torture, and death as a criminal by the hand of Jewish enemies (they regularly called Gentiles "sinners") is an outstanding invention, if nothing else.
When the theology that Jesus was YHWH in human form is used as a key, the story takes on a different meaning. In it the God of all the universe deigns to be born into poverty, to a woman who conceives this incarnation in morally questionable circumstances.
The birth goes unnoticed except by those marginalized in Jewish society, such as shepherds, and by heathen astrologers. When the Jewish ruler of the time learns of the child, this incarnate God is hunted as a target for slaughter.
Eventually the incarnate God of the Jews gets rejected by his own people, his own leaders of those who worshipped him. He gets excommunicated as a blasphemer and handed over to "Gentiles sinners" to die in nudity, hung on a new type of torture device invented by the Romans, the cross, on the date of the most important anniversary of Judaism, the Passover.
When the story is read from this vantage point rejected by the Jehovah's Witnesses, it is the story of a God that chooses to live among and identify with even the most insignificant among humanity. He purposely chooses a course that would lead to his experiencing suffering that even the worst criminals of the time experienced. God choose to experience what it is like to be poor, to be disbelieved, hated, rejected, as well as loved, to be part of a group, to have friends, to experience hunger, good food, joy, and the fear of death, as well as death itself.
God becomes human in order to raise humanity. He undergoes rejection to stop rejection. He experiences mortality in order to end mortality. God shares the life of man that man may share in the life of God. It is no longer a story about a sacrifice to appease a God who demands a death to cover Adam's sin, as the Witnesses teach. It becomes a story of a God sacrificing his life in order to give it to all his children.
Again this is not a plea to turn people into Trinitarians or get atheists to accept Christian mythology, no. But I do want to show up how poor a story the Witness theology makes of the Christian tale. According to the JW reading, the story is about a blood thirsty Jehovah who demands life for life, blood for blood. The other story is about a God who gives over his life, chooses to suffer, in order that life can be given to people, to end suffering, to stop the demand for sacrifice.
At least one story seems remarkable. The other, the Watchtower version, is a poor cousin, no different from the bloodthirsty demands of the heathen deities.
 
cofty
cofty a day ago

That is a good piece of happy-clappy spin on the christian gospel DJ
The death of Jesus was about vicarious punishment.
The wrath of a capricious god was propitiated by the sight of the bloody corpse of Jesus.
 
David_Jay
David_Jay a day ago
The intention is to show how bankrupt the Watchtower Christology is, first and foremost.
While there is no intention to advocate that what I wrote somehow recommends that non-theists adopt something along the lines of my post, I cannot take credit for the "happy-clappy spin," as you put it.
Having thoroughly imbimbed and promoted the Kool-Aid of the Governing Body of the Jehovah's Witnesses for two decades, from the 1980s onward, I was totally of the opinion that the JWs had the correct and generally accepted view of the Jesus story, that as the JWs served it, this version of the Christian mythology was generally accepted as a ransom story, about providing a dead victim to set the scales of justice aright before the mighty God Jehovah who was doing this becuase someone ruffled his feathers by challenging his sovereignty.
Around ten years after disassociating from the Jehovah's Witnesses, I came across the annual Christmas prayer of the Catholic pope, who at that time was Pope John Paul II. I believe it used to be printed every year in newspapers, if memory serves me right.
Far more poetic than what I described above, the prayer mentioned these points I touched on and more. He said something along the lines of "God became man in order to sacrifice his life so that man can have the eternal life of God," or something along those lines.
I had never been a Trinitarian, not before becoming a Witness or after leaving. So I only knew what the Watchtower had taught us about the subject. But the prayer of the Pope had me curious. What was he talking about? That was nothing like the Incarnation I had learned from the Watchtower (I still held that some of the views of the Witnesses were true, so at that time I had not bothered to revise my education on what Trinitarians believe).
I wrote the above post because it is what the Trinitarian doctrine is about. I learned that the Witnesses were very off base and liars about even that. Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants don't believe that Jesus gave up his life as a sacrifice to cover Adam's sin, as a sacrifice to appease God, but as an act of redemption, as an offering to humanity.
The theology is very ancient, but it goes like this: Adam's life led to the death of humanity, but Jesus' death led to their life. Adam died by eating fruit from a living tree, humanity lives by "eating the flesh and blood" from the dead tree of the cross. Adam, in an attempt to be like God, gave death to his children, but God, in his attempt to become human, gave life to humanity. The sacrifice of the Jews were animals offered to God, but the sacrifice of God was the life of his Incarnate Son as an offering to humans.
Again, I am sure many of you believe it is nonsense, either way. And I would not argue with you nor claim your view wasn't right, I was merely pointing out that what the Witnesses believe is so backward and empty compared to actual Christianity, that their exegesis is more ignorant than the mythology. They can't even understand what many consider little more than a fairy tale right. They are like poor readers, unable to understand even the most rudimentary of simple children's tales.
Essentially they have turned what others see as a beautiful story into one of a bloodthirsty divinity who, becuase of his pride being hurt, has to have the most perfect of humans suffer and die. I came up with neither "spin" on the tale, but I am rather embarrassed that for almost 20 years I peddled the stupid version.
 +1 / -0
cofty
cofty a day ago
The Gospel Contrasted With the Watchtower Doctrine of the Ransom...
 
David_Jay
David_Jay a day ago

A well-written article, but my comments are based on the Gospel as explained in the Church Fathers, the pre-New Testament liturgical texts of Orthodoxy, theology and commentary of Catholics, Protestants, and that prayer of Pope John Paul II.
I here go on record that I am not advocating the views, claim that I believe in them at all or in part, nor reject any, nor that they are better or worse than Cofty's.
I am merely pointing out how ignorant I was of the exegesis Christianity was preaching for 2000 years when I was a JW, and how bankrupt their particular take on the story is.
 +1 / -0
cofty
cofty a day ago

the pre-New Testament liturgical texts of Orthodoxy
How would you know what christians taught about the significance of Jesus death before the NT was written?
The kergyma of Paul is about reconciliation with god through faith in Jesus' vicarious punishment.
 
David_Jay
David_Jay a day ago

You misread me. I stated not before the NT was "written," but before it existed, meaning before its canonization.
What has become known as the Liturgy pre-dates the canonization and perhaps even some of the later compositions of the New Testament. The oldest extant forms are from the Liturgy of St. James, considered the first bishop of Jerusalem, and these predate even the earliest formulations of the Trinity doctrine.
The various liturgical texts used antiphonal formulas, some of which appear in Pauline epistles (which is where Paul may have taken them from). They, along with other ancient non NT texts, contain some of the data I was referring to.
 
Witness My Fury
Witness My Fury a day ago
His dad was an absolute bastard, so good job it's all contrived in the minds of men...
 
David_Jay
David_Jay a day ago

By the way, the theological exegesis I am speaking about has a name: divinization. There is no equivalent to in Watchtower-ism, so as a faithful JW I was unaware of it.
The teaching is very ancient, namely that the atonement of Christ makes it possible for humanity to share in and be raised to the divine nature, sharing the very life of God by means of the sacrifice of Christ. There is even a Wikipedia article about it.
Since JWs don't believe Jesus is God, they offer the "God demands blood to satisfy his own thirst for justice" story. What Christianity has taught since its beginnings are different than what those blind guides known as the Governing Body ignorantly peddle.
 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
so over the course of three days he had a trial which doesn't seem to have bothered him much.
he got whipped ok that would have been agony and then put on a torture stake/ cross/ whatever yes that would have been hell.
but he was on it for a day and the whole thing lasted for three days.



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Did Jesus really suffer? Really?
by purrpurr a day ago 42 Replies latest 12 hours ago   jw friends
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cofty
cofty a day ago

“Truly our sicknesses were what he himself carried and as for our pains he bore them. But we ourselves accounted him as plagued, stricken by God and afflicted. But he made him sick If you will set his soul as a guilt offering he will see his offspring…the righteous one my servant will bring a righteous standing to many people, and their errors he himself will bear…it was with the transgressors that he was counted in, and he himself carried the very sin of many people and for the transgressors he proceeded to interpose.” - Isa.53
“Jesus put sins away through the sacrifice of himself…the Christ was offered once for all time to bear the sins of many” - Heb.9:26,28
“He committed no sin nor was deception found in his mouth…He himself bore our sin in his own body upon the stake that we may be done with sins and live to righteousness…And by his stripes you were healed.” - 1Pet.2:22,24
The one who did not know sin he made to be sin for us that we might become God’s righteousness by means of him.” - 2 Cor.5:20,21

“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and it is as a free gift that they are being declared righteous by his undeserved kindness through the release by ransom paid by Christ Jesus. God set him forth as an offering for propitiation through faith in his blood. This was in order to exhibit his own righteousness because he was forgiving the sins that occurred in the past while God was exercising forbearance, so as to exhibit his own righteousness in this present season, that he might be righteous even when declaring righteous the man who has faith in Jesus.” - Rom.3:23-26

“And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, and yet not for ours only but also for the whole worlds” - 1Jhn.2:2
“The love is in this respect not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent forth his Son as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins.” - 1 Jhn.4:10

 
David_Jay
David_Jay a day ago

All the Scriptures you quote are correct, but none of them, not one says that they are payment to God for sins, as if God is demanding shed blood or needs blood.
What the texts are talking about is that the shedding of blood, or offering of life (remember that blood represents life in the Bible) of Jesus is in order to heal people from the effects of sin.
Remember, all these things are to ransom us from the effects of sin, not from God. God was not holding us in exchange for ransom, sin was. It is written: "God bestowed on us the precious and very great promises, so that through them you may come to share in the divine nature."--2 Peter 1.4.
The Gospel is that people are saved from a mortal nature to share in a divine, incorruptible immortal nature.
Again, I am only stating that the Watchtower view of God demanding blood to release us from sin is not the same message Chrsitianity has taught since the beginning. The Gospel is about sharing in God's very eternal life, not about settling an argument between God and the Devil.
 +1 / -0
cofty
cofty a day ago

The JWs teach that Jesus death was about purchasing the value of the perfect life of Adam.
It is legalistic nonsense. I explained this at length in my article...
The NT clearly teaches that Jesus was a sin offering in the same style as OT sacrifices.
The wrath of an vengeful god was propitiated by the sight of Jesus' bloody corpse.
 
David_Jay
David_Jay a day ago

Again, even the idea that you present of the Old Testament is shared basically by the religious traditions that contributed to Watchtower-ism. It is the JW idea that I am saying is completely wrong.
They say God demanded sacrifices in the Temple to cover over sins, and they still have you convinced that this is so. Is it not written: "Do I eat the blood of bulls or drink the blood of he -goats?"--Psalm 50.13.
If the "wrath of a vengeful god" was satisfied by blood sacrifice, it was not the God of the Old or New Testament , as the JWs teach. Have you never read the Scriptire that says: "It is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats take away sins." And again the Scriptures say: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire."--Hebrews 10.1-7.
If Scripture teaches that God does not eat the blood of sacrifices nor even desires these, then why the sacrifice of Christ? Again the Scriptures answer, that "you may come to share in the divine life." (2 Peter 1.4) If God offers a life that grants "divine life," what other source can it have but God?
The death of a perfect man cannot offer a share in God's life. Only that of God can do so. And God does not need his own life. He offers it for humanity for humans "to share in the divine life." That is the Good News, not what the Witnesses have sadly taught you.
Besides, why would you defend the Watchtower view? And what is better news than being offered a "share in the divine life"? If the Gospel the JWs preach is less than that, how is that the Good News? It is not. It is another, accursed gospel.
 
cofty
cofty a day ago

Besides, why would you defend the Watchtower view?
I'm doing the exact opposite of that. Did you not read a single word I wrote?
The entire OT sacrificial system was about vicarious punishment -  The WT don't get that fact at all.
 +1 / -0
David_Jay
David_Jay a day ago

Yes, I did. And it is the Watchtower view, not Judaism's or Christianity's.
For instance, the Jewish view is described here at http://www.jewfaq.org/m/qorbanot.htm and other places on the Internet and in written Jewish sources.
Being a Sephardic Jew myself I can testify that Jews did not see the sacrifices according to what you wrote, but the JWs did, and they influenced your reading. You just don't realize it yet.
So yes, it is the Watchtower view, even what you wrote.
 
cofty
cofty a day ago

it is the Watchtower view
No it isn't. JWs do not understand vicarious sacrifice in regards to Jesus' death.
In case you didn't notice my article is called "The Gospel Contrasted With the Watchtower Doctrine of the Ransom".
“Jesus put sins away through the sacrifice of himself…the Christ was offered once for all time to bear the sins of many” - Heb.9:26,28
 God set him forth as an offering for propitiation through faith in his blood - Rom.3

He himself bore our sin in his own body upon the stake that we may be done with sins and live to righteousness…And by his stripes you were healed.” - 1Pet.2:22,24
These texts are a total mystery to JWs. Ask them about Jesus' death and they will go straight to Adam; perfect life; ransom; etc etc. Legalistic bullshit.

 
David_Jay
David_Jay a day ago
And as to the principle of vicarious punishment and atonement, it has been the touchstone of JWs since 1879 when Russell separated from those who published "Herald of the Morning" and began to publish the first editions of the Watchtower. It has been understood that way of the Old Testament sacrifices and applied to Christ in that fashion ever since. You can probably Google Russell's comments about it easily.
 
cofty
cofty a day ago

All the Scriptures you quote are correct, but none of them, not one says that they are payment to God for sins - DJ
For instance, the Jewish view is described here.... - DJ
Another important concept is the element of substitution. The idea is that the thing being offered is a substitute for the person making the offering, and the things that are done to the offering are things that should have been done to the person offering. The offering is in some sense "punished" in place of the offerer.

 
cofty
cofty a day ago

it has been the touchstone of JWs since 1879
I cover all of that in detail in my article which you obviously didn't read.
 

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so over the course of three days he had a trial which doesn't seem to have bothered him much.
he got whipped ok that would have been agony and then put on a torture stake/ cross/ whatever yes that would have been hell.
but he was on it for a day and the whole thing lasted for three days.



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Did Jesus really suffer? Really?
by purrpurr a day ago 42 Replies latest 12 hours ago   jw friends
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David_Jay
David_Jay a day ago

Memory fails me, but I believe Russell explained in this in a letter supplement in either the "Herald" or first "Watch Tower."
But though the JWs may not realize it, yes their theology is solidly based and founded on it.
Again, it isn't me you should be arguing with about this. I wasn't the one who invented this ignorant theology.
 
David_Jay
David_Jay a day ago

You are just arguing with me because you are proud. I thought you were atheist. Why would an atheist argue in favor of any type of theology or interpretation? If there is no God, then all the interpretations are wrong, including what you wrote.
And yes, I read it a while back, not recently however.
 
cofty
cofty a day ago

Barbour rightly ridiculed the ethics of vicarious sacrifice and it led to the split with Russell.
Russell paid lip-service to it but in reality it was all about Adam.
According to Russell Jesus died for one reason only and that was to redeem Adam. One perfect man for another. Rutherford eventually changed it to the value of Adam's perfect life rather than Adam who was redeemed.
None of this changes the facts that according to the NT Jesus death was about our sins being put on Jesus who was brutally punished in our place. This is the gospel that JWs don't understand.
He himself bore our sin in his own body upon the stake that we may be done with sins and live to righteousness…And by his stripes you were healed.” - 1Pet.2:22,24

 
cofty
cofty a day ago

You are just arguing with me because you are proud. - DJ
Straw man
I thought you were atheist. - DJ
I am. In fact I am an anti-theist.
Why would an atheist argue in favor of any type of theology or interpretation?
I'm not arguing "in favour" of anything. I have written a lot about JW theology. I am explaining the difference between JW version of the ransom and the christian gospel. One is legalistic nonsense and the other is ethically repugnant.
If there is no God, then all the interpretations are wrong, including what you wrote.
So? That doesn't stop me having an opinion about other's beliefs.
And yes, I read it a while back, not recently however.
Then you have a very bad memory.
 
cofty
cofty a day ago

Contrary to your assertions vicarious punishment is also the Jewish understanding of sacrifice...
Another important concept is the element of substitution. The idea is that the thing being offered is a substitute for the person making the offering, and the things that are done to the offering are things that should have been done to the person offering. The offering is in some sense "punished" in place of the offerer.

 
David_Jay
David_Jay a day ago

Yes, "healed." Ransoms don't heal people. They get paid to get those held captive free.
God didn't demand a ransom of any kind, becuase sin was holding humanity hostage. By healing people through what Christ sacrificed, people are offered a share in the divine life. That is the Gospel.
You are arguing with me to defend a view you reject. The you don't want to admit that the view you reject is wrong or that there is anything like divinization being a historical doctrine, because that will mean you rejected the wrong thing.
If you reject something that was never the belief in the first place, your current convictions might be wrong and need to be changed. And the thought of that moves you to keep arguing and debating.
If there is no God, then what you are defending is wrong anyway. Why are you defending something that is irrelevant? Is it not all nonsense anyway?
 +1 / -0
David_Jay
David_Jay a day ago
You just can't stand to be wrong, can you? Am I so powerful and my words so important that you have to keep fighting? Look at how I can control you! I can keep you going on and on, can't I?
 +0 / -1
cofty
cofty a day ago

You just can't stand to be wrong, can you? - DJ
I'm not wrong but now you are now ignoring the evidence and indulging in ad hominem rants.
Bye.
Another important concept is the element of substitution. The idea is that the thing being offered is a substitute for the person making the offering, and the things that are done to the offering are things that should have been done to the person offering. The offering is in some sense "punished" in place of the offerer.
He himself bore our sin in his own body upon the stake that we may be done with sins and live to righteousness…And by his stripes you were healed.” - 1Pet.2:22,24


 
rebel8
rebel8 21 hours ago

Psychologically speaking--in this scenario that didn't even happen IRL to a nonexistent son of a nonexistent god--Jesus' death experience would be much less damaging than it would have been to a normal human.
He knew the outcome was not only resurrection, but everlasting life ruling the universe. When I say "knew", I mean he really knew it--not in the sense most believers "know" Heaven is real. He really saw it with his own eyes.

He also knew at any moment he had the power to stop his own suffering.
 
purrpurr
purrpurr 15 hours ago
Great, so I get up this morning to discover that my thread has been hijacked. Can we get back to the original subject please?
 +1 / -0

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so over the course of three days he had a trial which doesn't seem to have bothered him much.
he got whipped ok that would have been agony and then put on a torture stake/ cross/ whatever yes that would have been hell.
but he was on it for a day and the whole thing lasted for three days.



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by Wonderment 3 months ago
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by Island Man a month ago
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JW husband prime suspect in wife's attempted murder
by WhatUserName 3 3 months ago



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Did Jesus really suffer? Really?
by purrpurr a day ago 42 Replies latest 12 hours ago   jw friends
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Ucantnome
Ucantnome 14 hours ago

I have a book The Passion (Photography from the Movie The Passion of the Christ) on page 69 it has a photograph of a beaten and bloodied man and quotes Isaiah 52:14. 'Many were amazed when they saw him-beaten and bloodied, so disfigured one would scarcely know he was a person'
I had never thought of it being so bad until I saw that.
 
Half banana
Half banana 13 hours ago

The ransom sacrifice is the elaboration of a perfectly dreadful story. It is based on the most primitive and yet dramatic means of restoring the equilibrium in a tribal society. It is the belief that for the sake of the unity of the tribe and for the appeasement of the gods; someone has to die.
The idea was formalised in early Egyptian Horus/Osiris myth and perpetuated by successive tribes and powers in the region. Over time each group and regional cult would add in their own local notions but the essence of the story remained.
Had it not been for Jewish dissidents looking for a god-man saviour of their own and labelling him Jesus, we would know this same myth as the death and redemption of the crucified saviour Dionysus.
Although Christianity and the JW org would  instantly die if it was understood... yet it is a fundamental matter of education to know when we are dealing with myth or with fact.
Hint: if the text contains accounts of people coming back from the dead or talking animals or invisible spirits; it is a story or myth.
 
punkofnice
punkofnice 12 hours ago

Given the lack of evidence outside the bible for the existance of Jesus.....How can a fictional character suffer?
I was sorry to hear about Bambi's mum.
 +1 / -0

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so over the course of three days he had a trial which doesn't seem to have bothered him much.
he got whipped ok that would have been agony and then put on a torture stake/ cross/ whatever yes that would have been hell.
but he was on it for a day and the whole thing lasted for three days.



Related Topics
Wonderment
How credible are NWT's critiques?: Allin and John 8:58. (2)
by Wonderment 3 months ago
Wonderment
How credible are NWT critiques? A look at Allin's evaluation of Jn 8:58.
by Wonderment 3 months ago
Island Man
From a christian perspective, would true love expect to be thanked? Would true love bemoan the absence of an expression of thanks?
by Island Man a month ago
zophar
Are Jehovah's Witnesses Saved by Grace...Undeserved Kindness?
by zophar 2 months ago
WhatUserName 3
JW husband prime suspect in wife's attempted murder
by WhatUserName 3 3 months ago



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A cording to today's wt not speaking to someone is evil
by poopie 2 days ago 20 Replies latest a day ago   jw friends
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poopie
poopie 2 days ago
Wow
 +1 / -5
ScenicViewer
ScenicViewer 2 days ago

Can you post the issue and page number you are referring to? Or give us a quote? Anything more at all?
The headline is great but "Wow" is not much of an OP.

 +4 / -0
Barrold Bonds
Barrold Bonds 2 days ago

thanks for sharing the relevant quote for us.
poopie is just living up to his name with the usual shit posting.
 +6 / -2
skin
skin 2 days ago
Yes, that was in this weeks WT. But used in reverse by jw.org. it was in reference to someone studying with a jw and then the family of that study not liking what was happening, so the family stopped associating with them.
 +2 / -0
Wild_Thing
Wild_Thing 2 days ago

Quote please!! Or link? Or anything? Sheesh!
 +4 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 2 days ago

maybe he is referring to this?
11 Loyalty to God helped an Australian sister named Alice to decide how much importance to give to other loyalties. When she began studying the Bible, she would tell her family about the good things she was learning. Later, Alice told members of her family that she would not be celebrating Christmas with them. She explained the reasons, but their mild concern gradually turned into bitter anger. They felt that she was turning her back on her family. Says Alice: “My mother finally said that she disowned me. I was shocked and deeply hurt because I really loved my family. Nevertheless, I resolved that Jehovah and his Son would be first in my heart, and I got baptized at the next assembly.”—Matt. 10:37. 12 If we a

 +1 / -0
Wild_Thing
Wild_Thing 2 days ago
Thanks, ttdtt. Hmmm ... that sound like anything too different from what I have seen before. :frowning:
 +1 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 2 days ago

How about this crazy paragraph.
15 In congregations of Jehovah’s people today, it is very unlikely that we would be treated unjustly (REALLY? I guess if you only consider getting murdered your standard for being treated unjustly). However, those taking the lead among us are imperfect men and could misinterpret our actions. (1 Sam. 1:13-17) If we are ever misjudged or misunderstood, let us remain loyal to Jehovah. (CODE FOR - SHUT UP AND SIT DOWN)
The WT makes it plain that NOTHING can happen to you where there would be reason to complain - question - or stop attending meetings. But it's not a cult - right.
 +10 / -0
StephaneLaliberte
StephaneLaliberte 2 days ago

9 In South America, Olga proved loyal to God by showing respect for her husband even under trying circumstances. For years, he expressed annoyance at her for being one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. He abused her emotionally, insulted her, refused to speak to her, and threatened to take the children and leave her. But Olga did not return evil for evil. - WT Study, February 2016, page 23
Isn't this exactly what is going on when a brother or sister leaves the JWs?
 +9 / -1
Listener
Listener 2 days ago
You cannot respect a husband that abuses you emotionally. It is not possible unless you are in a religion that abuses you emotionally by telling you to put up with such mistreatment.
 +10 / -0

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A cording to today's wt not speaking to someone is evil
by poopie 2 days ago 20 Replies latest a day ago   jw friends
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Wild_Thing
Wild_Thing 2 days ago

In congregations of Jehovah’s people today, it is very unlikely that we would be treated unjustly
Haha! I think they mistakenly put the "un" in front of likely!
 +8 / -0
ScenicViewer
ScenicViewer 2 days ago

Thank you StephaneLaliberte, who posted:

9 In South America, Olga proved loyal to God by showing respect for her husband even under trying circumstances. For years, he expressed annoyance at her for being one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. He abused her emotionally, insulted her, refused to speak to her, and threatened to take the children and leave her. But Olga did not return evil for evil. - WT Study, February 2016, page 23
This article points to how bad it is to cut someone off by giving them the silent treatment over nothing more than a religious view, but notice the double standard on the wife's part.
In the same paragraph quoted above it says...


When possible, she accompanied him to gatherings of his family or colleagues. For example, when he wanted to go to another city for the funeral of his father, she got the children ready and prepared everything needed for the trip. She waited for her husband at the church door until the ceremony ended.
Wasn't Olga, who was being shunned by her non-Witness husband over religious beliefs, doing the same thing to everyone that didn't agree with her? The paragraph says "She waited for her husband at the church door until the ceremony ended."
What? She wouldn't go inside to be with her husband at his father's funeral? Why not? The article doesn't mention it, but no doubt it was over religious beliefs, she did not agree with what would be said in the church so she waited by the door.

The article claims that "Olga did not return evil for evil," but apparently she did. She gave her husband the same rejection that he was giving her, and both were doing it over nothing more than religious beliefs.
If Jehovah's Witnesses can't see the double standards promoted by the Watchtower organization it's because they have willfully chosen not to see it. Such obvious contradictions as this leave me shaking my head, wondering how blind people can be.

 +18 / -0
compound complex
compound complex 2 days ago

"No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family." -- AWAKE!, July 2009, page 29.
Oft quoted but e'er relevant declaration from Jehovah's own channel . . .
CoCo
 +15 / -0
StephaneLaliberte
StephaneLaliberte 2 days ago

ScenicViewer
This is what I love about this forum, always someone who brings up something I missed. You're right. She didn't go to her father in-law's funeral !!! How low can you go. There is nothing in the WT that prevents someone to go to a non-witness funeral. Even an elder would not loose his privileges over this; the limit is simply not taking part in the ceremony. Still all that won't stop them from emphasising experiences of those who acted like monumental jerks. 
 +6 / -0
Dunedain
Dunedain 2 days ago

It actually is MORE disrespectful, and a slap in the face, to literally go to the place the funeral is being held, but NOT even have the decency to walk thru the door and pay your respect.
It is like you are saying to everyone, " hey notice ME, but YOU are worthless to me". Hippocrates at their worst, that's what the JWs are.

 +7 / -0
alcyone
alcyone a day ago

It is disgusting to see that double moral standard...
If "they" (i.e. worldly people, members of the harlot, mentally sick apostates, opposers, ...) do something it is bad.
When "we" (i.e. God's clean org.) do the same, it is a big difference, because we are THE TRUTH!
 +2 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 a day ago

Wow!
Such arrogance they have by not seeing the irony in those statements!
Classic hypocrisy!
But, I guess when you think you are gods special channel, then such logic doesnt apply.
 +1 / -0
ignored_one
ignored_one a day ago
I've hardly had much contact with my father's family over the years. He became a JW after his younger sister joined. I suspect his preaching to them every time he saw them probably became too much. They still came to the funeral / infomercial of my aunt's non-JW husband. Didn't come along to the house afterwards, but I realise now the likely reason why.
 +1 / -0
Room 215
Room 215 a day ago

"It actually is MORE disrespectful, and a slap in the face, to literally go to the place the funeral is being held, but NOT even have the decency to walk thru the door and pay your respect."
It's astonishing that this is held up as exemplary conduct, to be emulated rather than to be deplored as intolerance.
 +3 / -0
raven
raven a day ago
I am continuing to realize the real truth about all of this, I remember reading the experience of Olga- I didn't think twice about what kind of abuse she returned to the husband by not going in to attend her father in-laws funeral service buy standing outside.. This is because I was under mind control, and robotic thinking... Makes you think deeper when you come to your senses and realize the hypocrisy of the org.. Upsetting...

 +2 / -0

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wow



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A cording to today's wt not speaking to someone is evil
by poopie 2 days ago 20 Replies latest a day ago   jw friends
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BluesBrother
BluesBrother a day ago

This week's study says :
 Says Alice: “My mother finally said that she disowned me. I was shocked and deeply hurt because I really loved my family."
Next week's study says:
7) A conflict of loyalties may arise when a close relative is disfellowshipped. For example, a sister named Anne1]received a telephone call from her disfellowshipped mother. The mother wanted to visit Anne because she felt pained by her isolation from the family. Anne was deeply distressed by the plea and promised to reply by letter. Before writing, she reviewed Bible principles. (1 Cor. 5:11;2 John 9-11) Anne wrote and kindly reminded her mother that she had cut herself off from the family by her wrongdoing and unrepentant attitude. “The only way you can relieve your pain is by returning to Jehovah,” Anne wrote.
Spot the difference??
 

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wow



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The WT in 10 years time
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I COLLECT QUOTES. . . Here are some of my favorites
by Terry a month ago
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by new boy 7 hours ago
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My self control is failing
by kairos 2 days ago 4 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw friends
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kairos
kairos 2 days ago

I see JW posts on FB all the time.
They say crazy things based on ignorance.
For example:
Regarding the Prince article in People Magazine, they are saying "we aren't a church".
I want so badly to come in and mention that GB member Jackson referred to the JW org as a church over and over under sworn testimony at the ARC.
The JWs do not lock down their security settings and allow commenting on their 'public posts'. They need a taste of TTATT
https://www.facebook.com/charlene.francom?fref=ts
One of the comments was this:

How awesome. Can't wait to meet him
Seriously? He just died and you want to be in line to meet him after his Resurrection?
Disgusting!
Here in Napa, where these JWs live, many "loyal and faithful ones" have died in recent years.
No posts about them to be found.



 +4 / -0
kairos
kairos 2 days ago

I want to do activist work.


It's either that or move away from Napa.
I cannot go anywhere in this town without spotting JWs, their homes and businesses.
I have a tremendous amount of free time and I know where they all take their breaks, set up the lit carts and the routes to and from the assemblies and meetings. Wouldn't it be something if instead of me seeing them and feeling bad about how they treat their fellow man, they will have to run and hide to protect their brainwashed minds from the 'evil, mentally diseased apostate' that points out the quotes found in their own WT libraries...
I may need some 'back-up'.
 +3 / -0
joe134cd
joe134cd 2 days ago
Honestly I think you are far more effective and will reach more people by using the Internet.
 +1 / -0
joe134cd
joe134cd 2 days ago
You should not only tell them we are a church but also a hierarchical religion just like the catholic church.That will really blow their mind. Lol
 +1 / -0
Lieu
Lieu 2 days ago

Of course it's a "Church". Church, Congregation, etc all mean the same thing. Translated from the original Greek it means a group of people, not a building.
CHURCH (Gk. ekklēsia) #1577: The Greek term simply means “an assembly.” It was used in secular Greek to speak of any gathering of people to a political or festive assembly, and used by the NT writers to mean a local assembly of believers, or the whole body of believers. Within the local church in each city there were probably several “assemblies” or “meetings” of believers, held in various homes.

This is what happens when we don't pay attention in English class; we miss out on that whole synonyms thing. Using a synonym does not change what something is.
 +1 / -0

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Help Please ... finding a video experience leaving JW ...
by wannabefree 2 days ago 1 Replies latest 2 days ago   jw friends
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wannabefree
wannabefree 2 days ago

I saw it probably 5 or 6 years ago when first coming out.
It was done by a young man, I thought his name was something like Manny, but I haven't had any success with that.
It was his own personal experience leaving in a very drastic way. The video was well done. It may have been a school project he did. I believe the story was something like just walking away one day when his wife was in the shower. I may be way off, but I could use this for a friend.
Does anybody remember and/or have a link?
Thanks.
 
joe134cd
joe134cd 2 days ago
AnonDude2
 

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kairos
3
Get out of her MY people
by kairos in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
when we were in, it was 'the truth'.after being out and free to think and research as i please, what a disappointment to find out that this org is nothing but a publishing house of lies.they literally are in the business ( corporation ) of selling lies.don't believe me?review the publication that you 'studied the bible in' and discover for yourself that the very doctrine that attracted you, no longer exists.it was the "live forever" book for me.the generation that saw the events of 1914 has died and now after a few tweaks the massive lie of "overlapping generations" has been promoted as "truth".this takes us to galatians 1:8,9.read it carefully and repeatedly.

in multiple translations.however, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond what we declared to you as good news, let him be accursed.

9 as we have said above, i also now say again, whoever it is that is declaring to you as good news something beyond what you accepted, let him be accursed.. you cannot change the doctrines.

baker
My Name is of No Consequence
Athanasius
a day ago
purrpurr
42
Did Jesus really suffer? Really?
by purrpurr in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
so over the course of three days he had a trial which doesn't seem to have bothered him much.

he got whipped ok that would have been agony and then put on a torture stake/ cross/ whatever yes that would have been hell.

but he was on it for a day and the whole thing lasted for three days.

Ucantnome
Half banana
punkofnice
12 hours ago
TTWSYF
6
converts from other faiths to JWs get blessings?
by TTWSYF in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 a day ago
i don't know about your experiences, but for my brother and his family, going from catholic to witness was [is] a disaster.

he's an elder and wouldn't admit it, but his health and portfolio have drastically declined since his conversion to the jw faith.

it is apparent to all who love him.

Crazyguy
steve2
WTWizard
9 hours ago
The Rebel
20
Lennon and McCartney could so easily have been writing for the Watchtower...
by The Rebel in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 2 days ago
in fact just like the watchtower, i've no idea what they were writing about half the time.

all that rubbish about " i am the walrus" and eleanor rigby keeping her teeth in a jam jar or something, and what "lucy the in the sky with diamonds" means i do not know!

anyway, i mention the above because shortly after i quit meetings, beattle loving brother, ian x also, stopped attending meetings, and i watched him transform himself in to a, scruffy bearded, hippyish, beer drinking slob, ( translation a great guy) .

Barrold Bonds
Heaven
talesin
a day ago
poopie
20
A cording to today's wt not speaking to someone is evil
by poopie in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 2 days ago
wow

Room 215
raven
BluesBrother
a day ago
wannabefree
1
Help Please ... finding a video experience leaving JW ...
by wannabefree in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 2 days ago
i saw it probably 5 or 6 years ago when first coming out.. it was done by a young man, i thought his name was something like manny, but i haven't had any success with that.. it was his own personal experience leaving in a very drastic way.

the video was well done.

it may have been a school project he did.

joe134cd
2 days ago
kairos
4
My self control is failing
by kairos in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 2 days ago
i see jw posts on fb all the time.they say crazy things based on ignorance.. for example:.

regarding the prince article in people magazine, they are saying "we aren't a church".. i want so badly to come in and mention that gb member jackson referred to the jw org as a church over and over under sworn testimony at the arc.the jws do not lock down their security settings and allow commenting on their 'public posts'.

they need a taste of ttatt.

joe134cd
joe134cd
Lieu
2 days ago
ToesUp
29
If Prince had an addiction to prescriptions drugs, it's a personal matter but if I want to grow a beard or attend college, it's not.
by ToesUp in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 2 days ago
interesting article i found about prince and the jw religion.

i guess they are trying to get their 15 minutes of fame.

i find it disturbing that the elder stated if prince had an addiction to prescription drugs, that is a personal matter but the hundreds of intrusive jw rules like going to college (not scriptural) and growing a beard (also not scriptural) are not also considered a personal choice.

Vidiot
steve2
Hadriel
a day ago
freddo
20
Being Positive around family that are still in.
by freddo in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 2 days ago
if you are a fader or you have reduced activity markedly - say resigned as a pioneer or an elder or ms or gone inactive and still have some relationship with your immediate family or spouse - how do you stay positive around them when you feel like shaking them out of their stupor but believe deep down it would be counter productive?.

thoughts from all most welcome..

Magwitch
baker
truthseekeriam
a day ago
konceptual99
4
Prince Cremated In Private Ceremony
by konceptual99 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 3 days ago http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36122711.

attended by larry graham reportedly.

no big jw event thankfully .

Je.suis.oisif
Je.suis.oisif
Tazemanian-devil
2 days ago
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Everyone is Equal in God's Loving Organization
by new boy 7 hours ago 12 Replies latest 8 minutes ago   jw friends
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new boy
new boy 7 hours ago

They said we are all the same in god’s eyes. That everyone is equal. To prove this they call everyone “Brother and Sister.” Sadly, this really isn’t the case. There are those who are definitely thought better of then others. That being said, this is their list of rankings as a Jehovah’s Witnesses in every congregation around the world. This rank does make a difference in how people treat and respect you.
1. Unbaptized, irregular, publisher. Someone that is going out in Field service inconsistently and is not baptized yet. This rank is OK if you are a child, not if you were an adult.
2. Inactive Publisher. Someone is baptized and who has not gone out in field service for over six months. This person is “weak spiritually” and should be avoided.
3. Irregular Publisher. Someone is baptized who might miss a full month of field service every now and then. This person is also weak spiritually but not as bad as inactive publisher.
4. Publisher. Someone who never misses a month in field service. This person is in “good standing.”
5. Axillary Pioneer. Someone who is putting in a minimum of 60 hours (hours have been lowered over the years) in field service a month. This is a super charged publisher and is admired by others.
6. Pioneer. A person that puts in a minimum of 100 hours a month (hours have been lowered over the years) in field service a month. Except for being an Elder this is the highest rank in the congregation.
7. Special Pioneer. Someone who puts in a minimum of 150 hours (hours have been lowered over the years) in field service a month. There are very few of these around.
8. Ministerial servant. Any males who want to be made into an Elder someday must first be a ministerial servant. The do all the jobs in the Kingdom hall that the Elders don’t have time to do ( or want to do).
 9. Book study overseer. This position is held by a ministerial servant or Elder.
10. Elders. This is the most respected position a male can have in the congregation.
11. Elder’s wife. This position technically has no power, if you believe men never listen to their wives.
So you have ten or more different rankings in a congregation of less than 150 people.
There are other rankings outside the local congregation.
1. Circuit Overseer. He is in charge of 12 to 15 different congregations or one circuit.
2. District Overseer. He is charge of 12 to 15 circuits.
3. Zone Overseer. He is in charge of  all the District Overseers in a whole country.
4. Gilead Student. A pioneer missionary. 
5. Bethelite. A worker at one of the worldwide headquarters. At the worldwide headquarters there are too many subrankings to even mention here.
They purposely keep their congregations small, usually 100 to 140 people. This way they can keep better tabs on you and better tabs on each other.
If you missed more than a couple of meetings or too much field service, you might get a phone call or a visit from someone making sure you were “OK” and not spiritually sick.
It’s a tight nit group. With everyone “knowing” a lot of everyone else’s business. Part of the fun in going out in Field service is catching up on all the gossip. Even though this is discouraged, it has always been done.
Whether you are god’s chosen people or not, people just feel better knowing they are doing better than others. Plus it’s really fun to have some piece of information others don’t have, some little piece of dirt. It’s just human nature. Though most of it harmless, a lot of it can be real nasty stuff. Yes, the “Brothers and Sisters” know way too much about their “Brothers and Sisters.”
Yes, one big happy family.
 +3 / -0
Lieu
Lieu 7 hours ago

Yeah, we know. Its a big lie. Nothing new with organized religion, it's been that way since the originals died and Western nations got a hold of it; it was made in the form of their societies, hierarchical.
Try pulling a Paul with the JW GB ... It would be the fastest exit from a building in human history.
 +2 / -0
sir82
sir82 7 hours ago

This is a much more comprehensive list:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/281197/new-list-watchtower-classes-simplified-simple-minded

 +2 / -0
Peony
Peony 6 hours ago

Great list sir82.
I hated the whole, we're all the same when I knew how untrue that was! Hubby was an overseer at the DC, we were assigned to sit in the Royal Box, lots of seating, no queuing for the toilets.....huge if you're female! I voiced that I was uncomfortable about this as why should we get the cushy seats, I was told it was so it would be easier to find hubby (ridiculous considering he was so busy he'd only come there for his lunch)(have they not heard of phones) I sat in there and watched a poor sister with about 4 children struggling to find seats...she looked close to tears. Her face lit up when she saw all these empty rows in the Royal Box........Trouble is eagle eyed attendant saw her making a bee line and raced down to the opening to stop her getting in! (Too unworthy) She burst into tears, it was awful.........I refused to sit in there after that. Just one of the many hypocrital things I've witnessed through the years, I'm so glad I'm out of it x
 +4 / -0
Peony
Peony 6 hours ago
Oh and the P person that everyone's talking about.......he had his own attendant!!
 +1 / -0
Lieu
Lieu 6 hours ago
Lol, Peony, he did for a time. Then you read where, "they've all left me". Too needy in prison, I suppose. (Could someone leave home, travel 500 miles to bring me a pen and paper?) Particularly when everyone else's families were being killed or fed to lions at the time.
 +1 / -0
Peony
Peony 6 hours ago
Oh sorry lieu, I wasn't talking about Paul, I was talking about prince, lol x
 +2 / -0
talesin
talesin 5 hours ago

I sat in there and watched a poor sister with about 4 children struggling to find seats...she looked close to tears. Her face lit up when she saw all these empty rows in the Royal Box........Trouble is eagle eyed attendant saw her making a bee line and raced down to the opening to stop her getting in! (Too unworthy) She burst into tears, it was awful...
Wow, I bet she was happy when you rushed down to help her! Right?
 +1 / -2
Peony
Peony 5 hours ago
Uncalled for Talesin! I had ME at the time.
 +2 / -0
Londo111
Londo111 5 hours ago

Very true.
And it's made me aware of the changes that have occurred in the organization:
Auxiliary pioneer requirements are now 50 hour (expect for special months where it is 30).
Regular pioneer requirements are 70 hours.
Special pioneers for the most part of have given the boot.
District overseers have been eliminated.
Not sure if Zone overseers are still around???
The Gilead school no longer produces missionaries.
 +1 / -0

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Everyone is Equal in God's Loving Organization
by new boy 7 hours ago 12 Replies latest 10 minutes ago   jw friends
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Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 3 hours ago

New Boy,
Seems like you have been away for quite some time and not keeping up with the WTBTS evolution. Most of your info is wrong by today's standards.
Nevertheless, yes, we are most definitely NOT all the same inside the Org, and everyone seems to rotate around their 'kind'.
DY
 +1 / -0
talesin
talesin an hour ago

Peony,



You're right, I'm sorry.  I can't walk in your shoes, or know the pressure.  Can't imagine being a JW wife, let alone an elder's, having left at 18.  But this is not about me - once again, my sincere apology.  xx



 +2 / -0
Peony
Peony 10 minutes ago
No worries Talesin. We're all victims of JW's one way or another, we need to stick together xx
 

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Topic Summary
they said we are all the same in god’s eyes.
that everyone is equal.
to prove this they call everyone “brother and sister.” sadly, this really isn’t the case.



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Get out of her MY people
by kairos a day ago 3 Replies latest a day ago   jw friends
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kairos
kairos a day ago
When we were in, it was 'the truth'.After being out and free to think and research as I please, what a disappointment to find out that this org is nothing but a publishing house of lies.
They literally are in the business ( corporation ) of selling lies.

Don't believe me?Review the publication that you 'studied the bible in' and discover for yourself that the very doctrine that attracted you, no longer exists.
It was the "Live Forever" book for me.The generation that saw the events of 1914 has died and now after a few tweaks the MASSIVE lie of "Overlapping Generations" has been promoted as "truth".
This takes us to Galatians 1:8,9.Read it carefully and repeatedly. In multiple translations.
However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said above, I also now say again, Whoever it is that is declaring to YOU as good news something beyond what YOU accepted, let him be accursed.
You cannot change the doctrines. Especially if the Nu-Lite® is from a man or 'angel'.
There is no recovery from this reality.
Game. Set. Match.
---
Bonus points if you read the removed verses: john 8:1-11
---
Saddest of all is that countless JWs that have given their all without bad motive, unknowingly promoting the lies to cover failed prophecy/predictions of the GB throughout their entire lives, at their own expense with nothing to show for it.Meanwhile, the org has amassed a GIANT real estate/investment portfolio they can sell off as needed for quick cash to pay off the many victims of child sexual abuse from fellow members without their knowledge.
Page 200 and 201 of the "God's Kingdom Rules" book lays out the lies, by omission, of where "our" donations go.
Criminal liars.

Rev 18:4-8
4 And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. 6 Render to her even as she herself rendered, and do to her twice as much, yes, twice the number of the things she did; in the cup in which she put a mixture put twice as much of the mixture for her. 7 To the extent that she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury, to that extent give her torment and mourning. For in her heart she keeps saying, ‘I sit a queen, and I am no widow, and I shall never see mourning.’ 8 That is why in one day her plagues will come, death and mourning and famine, and she will be completely burned with fire, because Jehovah God, who judged her, is strong.
Sound like the modern day GB?
The child abuse and blood issue cannot be forgiven. They are facing worldwide investigation in the courts because of their gross injustice of "being permissive towards pedophiles".They shamelessly appear on JWTV/.org/conventions with expensive suits and jewelry/watches and live in five star accommodation and travel without regard for expense.
They call themselves the bride of Christ.If Christ is the king, that makes them the Queen, doesn't it?

 +3 / -0
baker
baker a day ago
They also boldly misquote anytime they feel like it because their followers get their ears tickled. One recent example I came across was in the Dec 15, 2015 WT Where they quote from the Preface of the Revised Standard Version..“4 Despite the clear evidence that the personal name of God belongs in the Bible, many translations completely omit the sacred name of God. In fact, just two years after the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures was released in 1950, the Revised Standard Version was published. That version omitted the name, reversing the policy of the editors of the American Standard Version of 1901. Why? The preface says: “The use of any proper name for the one and only God . . . is entirely inappropriate for the universal faith of the Christian Church.” That set a pattern for many subsequent translations, English and non-English”
Excerpt From: WATCHTOWER. “The Watchtower, December 15, 2015.” iBooks. The 3 dots can be easily looked up now and you can see what the WT clearly left out just to make it seem to support their position. The quote from the RSV is as follows...For two reasons the Committee has returned to the more familiar usage of the King James Version: (1) the word “Jehovah” does not accurately represent any form of the Name ever used in Hebrew; and (2) the use of any proper name for the one and only God, as though there were other gods from whom He had to be distinguished, was discontinued in Judaism before the Christian era and is entirely inappropriate for the universal faith of the Christian Church. The word jehovah was made up in the medieval period.
 +3 / -0
My Name is of No Consequence
My Name is of No Consequence a day ago

The word jehovah was made up in the medieval period.
Shhhh! Don't tell anybody that!
 +2 / -0
Athanasius
Athanasius a day ago

Hi Baker,
Another statement that is misleading in the 12/15/15 Watchtower is this: "In fact, just two years after the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures was released in 1950, the Revised Standard Version was published."
The Revised Standard New Testament was first published in 1946, four years before the NWT Greek Scriptures. While the RSV Old Testament was first published in 1952, the Watchtower gives its readers the impression that the NWT was published first. In fact the first volume of the NWT Old Testament wasn't published until 1953.
 +1 / -0

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new boy
12
Everyone is Equal in God's Loving Organization
by new boy in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 8 hours ago
they said we are all the same in god’s eyes.

that everyone is equal.

to prove this they call everyone “brother and sister.” sadly, this really isn’t the case.

Doubtfully Yours
talesin
Peony
an hour ago
Wild_Thing
6
To Continue the Theme of All Things Prince ... The Dirty Songs List
by Wild_Thing in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 20 hours ago
link is here.. line outapr 18, 2013. .

"an incomplete and disorderly catalog of prince's dirty songs".

by kelly o. .

Spectre
WTWizard
Wild_Thing
2 hours ago
AMNESIANO
Daily Mail: Prince-JW Tidbits & Gossip
by AMNESIANO in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3557897/pictured-prince-jehovah-s-witness-conference-guitar-star-brought-faith-sitting-side.html.

amnesian.

captive 7/1972 - 2/2001.

Gratefullyunstuck
12
super heros
by Gratefullyunstuck in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
after reading the content of the 1 day assembly on another post, please tell me wt are trying to suggest members cant follow super hero movies/characters etc.

the whole of my ex family wouldnt have a life if this happened!

surely a wake up call for them....... but doubt it

talesin
stuckinarut2
punkofnice
12 hours ago
stuckinthemiddle
13
a unique situation
by stuckinthemiddle in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
i think i have a unique involvement with jws.

i'm not a baptized member.

my mother has been devout for over 20 years.

WingCommander
stuckinthemiddle
Lieu
7 hours ago
Barrold Bonds
33
Prince was on the board of directors for the WTS
by Barrold Bonds in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
i was talking with a friend of mine who knows a few people in the home department at bethel.

apparently, prince was, as i noted in the title, on the board of directors.

he apparently was sort of a silent partner or advisor in the whole thing.

alcyone
Half banana
MarkofCane
10 hours ago
ShirleyW
32
Is Larry Graham an Elder?
by ShirleyW in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
i think he is, but i"m not too sure.

just wondering because looking at that purple pimp outfit with hat that he wore to prince's memorial, i wonder if he ever gave a talk wearing the same outfit, when i've read here that some brothers were talked to for wearing a pastel colored shirt while giving a talk..

Diogenesister
ZAPPA-ESQUE
konceptual99
13 hours ago
Terry
2
VETTING your source of information (or, how Conspiracy Theories are transmitted)
by Terry in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 a day ago
i'm not black but i grew up in a black neighborhood.. well--wait!

that's not exactly correct.

i grew up in what was called a "colored".

BluesBrother
Terry
3 hours ago
purrpurr
17
So apparently prince wrote most of the songs in the new song book...
by purrpurr in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
or so says the jw's around me who heard it from someone who apparently "knows".

i'm no expert in the music of prince so perhaps someone else can tell me, does the songs of the wt sound similar to princes work?.

ZAPPA-ESQUE
2+2=5
M*A*S*H
9 hours ago
kairos
3
Get out of her MY people
by kairos in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
when we were in, it was 'the truth'.after being out and free to think and research as i please, what a disappointment to find out that this org is nothing but a publishing house of lies.they literally are in the business ( corporation ) of selling lies.don't believe me?review the publication that you 'studied the bible in' and discover for yourself that the very doctrine that attracted you, no longer exists.it was the "live forever" book for me.the generation that saw the events of 1914 has died and now after a few tweaks the massive lie of "overlapping generations" has been promoted as "truth".this takes us to galatians 1:8,9.read it carefully and repeatedly.

in multiple translations.however, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond what we declared to you as good news, let him be accursed.

9 as we have said above, i also now say again, whoever it is that is declaring to you as good news something beyond what you accepted, let him be accursed.. you cannot change the doctrines.

baker
My Name is of No Consequence
Athanasius
a day ago
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Terry
1
PRINCE's Playlist (Only for the curious)
by Terry in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 3 hours ago
i'm so old, i can remember when these things were called mix tapes!https://drive.google.com/folderview?.

i've compiled the above into .mp3 below:.

id=0b6a8sp5_psf-mfrys0lxcvracwm&usp=sharing.

talesin
3 hours ago
new boy
13
Everyone is Equal in God's Loving Organization
by new boy in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 8 hours ago
they said we are all the same in god’s eyes.

that everyone is equal.

to prove this they call everyone “brother and sister.” sadly, this really isn’t the case.

talesin
Peony
talesin
44 minutes ago
Wild_Thing
6
To Continue the Theme of All Things Prince ... The Dirty Songs List
by Wild_Thing in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 20 hours ago
link is here.. line outapr 18, 2013. .

"an incomplete and disorderly catalog of prince's dirty songs".

by kelly o. .

Spectre
WTWizard
Wild_Thing
2 hours ago
AMNESIANO
Daily Mail: Prince-JW Tidbits & Gossip
by AMNESIANO in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3557897/pictured-prince-jehovah-s-witness-conference-guitar-star-brought-faith-sitting-side.html.

amnesian.

captive 7/1972 - 2/2001.

Gratefullyunstuck
12
super heros
by Gratefullyunstuck in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
after reading the content of the 1 day assembly on another post, please tell me wt are trying to suggest members cant follow super hero movies/characters etc.

the whole of my ex family wouldnt have a life if this happened!

surely a wake up call for them....... but doubt it

talesin
stuckinarut2
punkofnice
12 hours ago
stuckinthemiddle
13
a unique situation
by stuckinthemiddle in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
i think i have a unique involvement with jws.

i'm not a baptized member.

my mother has been devout for over 20 years.

WingCommander
stuckinthemiddle
Lieu
7 hours ago
Barrold Bonds
33
Prince was on the board of directors for the WTS
by Barrold Bonds in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
i was talking with a friend of mine who knows a few people in the home department at bethel.

apparently, prince was, as i noted in the title, on the board of directors.

he apparently was sort of a silent partner or advisor in the whole thing.

alcyone
Half banana
MarkofCane
10 hours ago
ShirleyW
32
Is Larry Graham an Elder?
by ShirleyW in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
i think he is, but i"m not too sure.

just wondering because looking at that purple pimp outfit with hat that he wore to prince's memorial, i wonder if he ever gave a talk wearing the same outfit, when i've read here that some brothers were talked to for wearing a pastel colored shirt while giving a talk..

Diogenesister
ZAPPA-ESQUE
konceptual99
13 hours ago
Terry
2
VETTING your source of information (or, how Conspiracy Theories are transmitted)
by Terry in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 a day ago
i'm not black but i grew up in a black neighborhood.. well--wait!

that's not exactly correct.

i grew up in what was called a "colored".

BluesBrother
Terry
3 hours ago
purrpurr
17
So apparently prince wrote most of the songs in the new song book...
by purrpurr in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
or so says the jw's around me who heard it from someone who apparently "knows".

i'm no expert in the music of prince so perhaps someone else can tell me, does the songs of the wt sound similar to princes work?.

ZAPPA-ESQUE
2+2=5
M*A*S*H
9 hours ago
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Adam buried at the foot of Christ's cross. Are you kidding me.
by James Mixon a day ago 11 Replies latest 8 hours ago   watchtower bible
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James Mixon
James Mixon a day ago

I heard this on "The story of God". His blood trickle down through the rocks into Adam giving
him life. I have never heard this before, just unbelievable. How in the hell was Adam buried there? LOL
 
OneEyedJoe
OneEyedJoe a day ago
Theists say the darnedest things.
 +4 / -0
David_Jay
David_Jay a day ago

While not official doctrine or theology by any means, the location of Golgotha got its name from a series of Jewish traditions.
First and foremost, as Scripture states, the name of the area means "Place of the Skull." This is due to the Jewish tradition that the skull of Adam, having been in the possession of Melchizadek (who is identified with Shem, son of Noah), was laid to rest there after the flood.
The area was the later location of where Abraham attempted to offer up Issac, and where the Temple was eventually built. The sacrifices of the Temple were considered by many Jews as a perpetuating of the sacrifice God provided Abraham in exchange for his son, and it ended up being the place, right outside the upper west wall of Jerusalem where the Romans executed criminals.
This is why in many ancient artist renditions of the Crucifixion you see a skull and crossbones at the bottom of the cross. This represents Adam's bones, and it is illustrative of the teaching on the redemption of humanity which Christians believe occurred on Good Friday.
However, though some Christians may misunderstand the details, their mistakes do not represent any actual doctrine or teaching in either Judaism or Christianity. It represents a historical legend, nothing more, and can be found in both Talmudic writings and those of the Church Fathers.
 +3 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon a day ago

Thanks David_Jay. It seems to me they are back tracking events in order to fit the scriptures.
In other words they are making up stuff.
 
David_Jay
David_Jay a day ago

It may seem that way, but the idea of Adam being buried there and everything else I explained is older than the New Testament, at least until you get to the part of Jesus being put to death at Skull Place.
The fact that it is post-Biblical even in Judaism shows that it is an independent view as well. Golgotha is a real location, and things just worked out that way as history unfolded (or allegedly did).
Remember, this stuff is discussed even in the Talmud and Church Fathers, often in passing. So it wasn't as if they were trying to make things fit the Bible as we know it today. The Church Fathers had yet to canonize the Christian Scriptures and the Jews did not even believe in Jesus as the Messiah, so no one (especially the Jews) was trying to agree with the Christian Scriptural record. Some parts of the Bible were not even written before this tradition began.
 
rebel8
rebel8 a day ago


His blood trickle down through the rocks into Adam giving him life.
Whaaa...??? Adam was resurrected because Jesus' blood dripped on his remains? What happened to Adam after that? Did he go on to form a punk band?



 
James Mixon
James Mixon a day ago
He's somewhere with the snake.
 
John_Mann
John_Mann a day ago
And there's a legend about the cross being made by the remainings from from the ark.
 
Captain Schmideo2
Captain Schmideo2 21 hours ago
http://www.ial.goldthread.com/twain_story.html

The Tomb of Adam
by Mark Twain
The Greek chapel is the most roomy, the richest and the showiest chapel in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Its altar, like that of all the Greek churches, is a lofty screen that extends clear across the chapel, and is gorgeous with gilding and pictures. The numerous lamps that hang before it are of gold and silver, and cost great sums.
But the feature of the place is a short column that rises from the middle of the marble pavement of the chapel, and marks the exact centre of the earth.
To satisfy himself that this spot was really the centre of the earth, a skeptic once paid well for the privilege of ascending to the dome of the church, to see if the sun gave him a shadow at noon. He came down perfectly convinced. The day was very cloudy, and the sun threw no shadows at all; but the man was satisfied that if the sun had come out and made shadows, it could not have made any for him. Proofs like these are not to be set aside by the idle tongues of cavilers. To such as are not bigoted, and are willing to be convinced, they carry a conviction that nothing can ever shake.
If even greater proofs than those I have mentioned are wanted, to satisfy the headstrong and foolish that this is the genuine centre of the earth, they are here. The greatest of them lies in the fact that from under this very column was taken the dust from which Adam was made. This can surely be regarded in the light of a settler. It is not likely that the original first man would have been made from an inferior quality of earth, when it was entirely convenient to get first quality from the world's centre. This will strike any reflecting mind forcibly. That Adam was formed of dirt procured in this very spot, is amply proven by the fact that in six thousand years no man has ever been able to prove that the dirt was not procured here whereof he was made.
It is a singular circumstance that right under the roof of this same great church, and not far away from that illustrious column, Adam himself, the father of the human race, lies buried. There is no question that he is actually buried in the grave which is pointed out as his--there can be none--because it has never yet been proven that that grave is not the grave in which he is buried.
The tomb of Adam! How touching it was, here in a land of strangers, far away from home and friends and all who cared for me, thus to discover the grave of a blood-relation! True, a distant one, but still a relation. The unerring instinct of nature thrilled its recognition. The foundation of my filial affection was stirred to its profoundest depths, and I gave way to tumultuous emotion.
I leaned upon a pillar and burst into tears. I deem it no shame to have wept over the grave of my poor dead relative. Let him who would sneer at my emotion close this volume here, for he will find little to his taste in my journeyings through Holy Land. Noble old man--he did not live to see me--he did not live to see his child. And I--I--alas, I did not live to see him. Weight down by sorrow and disappointment, he died before I was born--six thousand brief summers before I was born. But let us try to bear it with fortitude. Let us trust that he is better off where he is. Let us take comfort in the thought that his loss is our eternal gain.
From Mark Twain's Library of Humor, pp 33-35.
 
Captain Schmideo2
Captain Schmideo2 21 hours ago

https://youtu.be/fD2LV67stNE?t=1h6m35s
 

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Adam buried at the foot of Christ's cross. Are you kidding me.
by James Mixon a day ago 11 Replies latest 8 hours ago   watchtower bible
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Vidiot
Vidiot 9 hours ago
This sounds like the plot of a horror movie.
 
Lieu
Lieu 8 hours ago

Lol, why would anyone care about Adam's head first of all? And Shem was way too distant a progeny to have it or even know where likely Seth and Cain buried Adam.
Besides, the rest of his descendants, which is everyone alive, wouldn't let their ancestor be dug up just so one person could take his head.
 

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Topic Summary
i heard this on "the story of god".
his blood trickle down through the rocks into adam giving.
him life.



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John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2
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by TTWSYF 4 months ago
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by Jerryh 4 months ago
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by learnaway a month ago



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I think my Sunday speaker is awake
by Yondaime 5 hours ago 24 Replies latest an hour ago   watchtower beliefs
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Yondaime
Yondaime 5 hours ago

Hi guys and gals,
Its been a long time since I've posted here, I've been caught up with school and work so I've never had the time to post on the forum, but I've still been reading through some articles on here. Now that Finals are over I have some time to breath. But something happened last Sunday that I absolutely have to talk about. So here goes.
On Sunday a speaker from a congregation not far came to do the public talk.
This guy is a bethelite.
Basically he starts off the talk explaining how the WBTS came into existence. He went on to explain how Russell was first a minister in Pennsylvania, and eventually moved to Brooklyn in order to spread his sermon at a much higher frequency through a news paper article called the Watchtower.
He goes on to explain how the bible students were formed, etc...
Then he admitted on stage that Russell believed the Armageddon would come in 1914, and that he got it wrong. Armageddon didn't come. He then went on to explain how many of the bible students left the faith, and went on to form their own religions.
After he explained the Russell predicted Armageddon and that he got it wrong, I was stunned. I almost had a panic attack. I looked to my right to see the expression on my parent's faces; they had their normal expressions like nothing was wrong. I couldn't believe what was happening.
He continued with his talk and from the beginning to around 24 minutes in, he didn't read a single bible verse. He also talked about Rutherford's personality, and how he was a mean guy; along with all the differences and conflicts he had with Russell. He then brought a very old publication from the early 1900s with a quote from Rutherford criticizing patriotism, and explained how the government didn't like what he said and imprisoned him for 9 months.
At the end of his talk he encouraged all the young people in our hall to volunteer in bethel service, and to do more research on and cherish our (the organization's) "beautiful heritage". He then walked off the stage.
He didn't read a single bible verse during the entire talk. And he openly admitted the Jehovah's Witnesses predicted Armageddon.
I don't know what to think of this, but that man sowed many seeds of doubt that day.
 +15 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 5 hours ago

I don't think that 1914 is a secret man:smile:
So this was a special Bethel service talk - or the regular public talk?
 +2 / -0
Yondaime
Yondaime 5 hours ago

@ttdtt
it was a regular public talk.
I wasn't so about what he said, but the way he said it. lol
 +2 / -0
berrygerry
berrygerry 5 hours ago


it was a regular public talk.
That is not a regular public talk.
 +2 / -0
RichardHaley
RichardHaley 5 hours ago
Not an existing outline for Sunday public talk for sure!
 +3 / -0
steve2
steve2 4 hours ago

Sounds unusual that he should speak so directly about 1914 without explaining how the light gets brighter.
BTW, according to your outline, the speaker "brought a very old publication from the early 1900s with a quote from Rutherford criticizing patriotism". Rutherford did not write books until the 1920s - even the infamous book "The Finished Mystery", published in 191,7 did not carry Rutherford's authorship.
 
ttdtt
ttdtt 4 hours ago

There is NO outline even close to that topic.
Did they announce a talk title?
 +3 / -0
dugout
dugout 4 hours ago
you mean to tell me he didn't say anything about field service,the new world,paridise, the resurrection, meeting attendence? Yea!!!! hes gone
 +1 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 4 hours ago

That's all in the Proclaimers Book.
But active JWs never read the WT publications. Only "apostate" JWs read the publications.
Doc

 +5 / -0
Juan Viejo2
Juan Viejo2 4 hours ago

I agree with berrygerry. All public talks and all service talks are heavily scripted and none go into the history of the Watchtower or any of its early leaders and personalities.
Either this Bethelite was invited (much to their regret) to speak to the congregation by the elders, or he simply went off the reservation - much to the horror of the elders.
I have heard of this happening on a few rare occasions. A former elder, CO, DO or Bethelite who has awakened, decides to use his next speaking assignment to just let go and tell his story or expose the WT. These situations, while very rare and not usually reported, do happen from time to time. As long as the speech is given in a calm manner and is not completely over the top (as was the one reported by Yondaime), the elders will lay low while the talk is going on and won't take any actions until after the meeting is over.
Perhaps at the next meeting one of the elders will mention the talk briefly and indicate that Brother So N So was having a bad night or was not feeling well, so some of what he said might not agree with current teachings and everyone should just move on and concentrate on current publications.
Elders will usually do whatever they can to discourage any further communication or discussion about the event or the subject. They will figure (correctly, it seems) that most of the audience will not really have been paying attention or will have taken special note of what the brother actually said. The few that might come to the elders to ask questions can be easily brushed off and told to just forget about what happened and what they heard. To do otherwise would show "disobedience to Jehovah and His organization."

This will very likely happen more often in the future. The Watchtower knows this. That is why they have extra elders near the stage and a brother who reads the scripted talks as they are given. Speakers who go off the script - even a little bit - will be counseled not to let that happen again, especially during a convention - unless they are one of the Governing Body members (who seem to go over the hill every so often - just because they can).
There have been there have been rare reports of speakers actually being hustled off the stage and escorted out of the Kingdom Hall when something like this happens. Occasionally, someone who has learned TTATT will just stand up while sitting in the audience and start shouting out about the Watchtower's lies and failures (a la Derek OHare in GB). The meeting is put on a brief hold while a few brothers simply remove the person from the auditorium and take them outside.
Elders and ministerial servants are informed about how to handle disturbances and out-of-control guest speakers. More often than not, they will have to face a drunk or drugged person who wandered into the Kingdom Hall rather than a speaker who decided to go off the reservation one night.
JV

 +6 / -0

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I think my Sunday speaker is awake
by Yondaime 5 hours ago 24 Replies latest an hour ago   watchtower beliefs
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ttdtt
ttdtt 4 hours ago

Juan Viejo2
That is why they have extra elders near the stage and a brother who reads the scripted talks as they are given. Speakers who go off the script - even a little bit - will be counseled not to let that happen again, especially during a convention -
I am not sure where you get this info? I have given talks on every level - and have been the chairman at District Assemblies. The Chairman has all the outlines - and has to be ready to fill in if a brother is sick and can't finish.
There are NO manuscript talks anymore!
There are no extra elders?





 
out4good4
out4good4 4 hours ago
No insult intended or implied, but, this sounds like an awake but trapped in ex-jws wet dream to me.
 
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 4 hours ago

Thanks to the www many inside are fully awake. I see the religion becoming a social community and nothing else; the young are leaving, the old are indifferent to the dogma, just staying for the social value of it. Meeting absence is at an all time high, service at an all time low.
In the Spanish cong, we have lots of gatherings and it is all about eating, drinking, dancing and having fun. Parents are very concerned with getting their kids further educated.
We have become like the Catholic Church, whatever the dogma the parishioners do whatever they want or feel is right. Being awake is awesome!🌞
DY
 +4 / -0
Yondaime
Yondaime 4 hours ago

@ttdtt
Sadly I don't remember the title, I'll ask my dad for it.
@dugout
Yea lol I couldn't believe it myself.
@Juan Viejo2
Very interesting. I hope this happens more often!
 
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 4 hours ago

Most JWS even the long time ones, do not know that 1914 was first calculated to be the year of Armageddon leading up from 1874 as the first devised date of Christ's return.

Most JWS don't even know about the WTS's first leader C T Russell making up Christ return by using the ridiculously stupid theology of Pyramidology

 +2 / -0
Yondaime
Yondaime 4 hours ago

@out4good4
I know lol. I almost wet myself.
 
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 3 hours ago
I don't think it says inn The proclaimed book that Russel predicted Armageddon in 1914. They show the pyramid graph with all the dates missing. Them I think they just imply that they predicted the end of the gentile times and how Jesus took his thrown Russel getting it all right. He sounds awake to me.
 
Half banana
Half banana 3 hours ago

Brilliant Yondaime,  I agree, let's just hope it does happen more frequently in the future.
The speaker has a captive audience and a bethelite carries WT authority...more of this please!
 +1 / -0
Giordano
Giordano 3 hours ago

This is exactly why I recommend this site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses
for anyone interested in the real JW history. It is neutral in tone and documented. The schism chart is very interesting.
 
Diogenesister
Diogenesister 2 hours ago
Awake for sure....ask the elders the name of the talk and if he's coming back, how much u enjoyed it etc and see their reaction....that should tell you all you need to know!
 +2 / -0

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hi guys and gals,.
its been a long time since i've posted here, i've been caught up with school and work so i've never had the time to post on the forum, but i've still been reading through some articles on here.
now that finals are over i have some time to breath.



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I think my Sunday speaker is awake
by Yondaime 5 hours ago 24 Replies latest an hour ago   watchtower beliefs
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Listener
Listener 2 hours ago

They are taught this at the Gilead school, this could have been one of the brothers that does the teaching.
With so much ttatt available today they are prepared to discuss the past with the wheelies. They put their slant on the information. They are so happy to use the past to show how far they have come. They have no shame in spinning it any way they can.
They even say that God knew what his people needed at the time, that is why the charismatic Russell led the people initially and the tougher Rutherford took over.
 +1 / -0
Juan Viejo2
Juan Viejo2 2 hours ago

ttdtt -
Maybe something has changed recently. The use of script readers for conventions has been reported for several years. This was not the case when I was giving public talks back in the 1960s, but I've had several ex-elders and former relatively high ranking brothers who were actually assigned to be script readers at district and regional conventions.
I do believe that this is a relatively new development (since 2000, probably) - the script readers sitting off to the side or behind the curtains at assemblies. I have also heard that brothers assigned to give the 30-minute public talk during the weekend meetings are also cautioned not to go off script or face the loss of that privilege.
Much has changed since the era of 55-minute public talks developed and given by mature brothers who filled in the gaps and added some of their own experiences to the outlines that we were given.
I attended a recent convention near my home a few years back. It was the Saturday afternoon session when they first released the first cartoon DVD for children (2011?). There was a group of 15-minute presentations that were interviews with local full-time pioneers describing how they overcame their money and personal needs in order to put in 100 hours a month - or whatever it was at the time. I could tell that the those interviewed were either reading their notes or had memorized their presentations word for word. It all just seemed so rehearsed and unbelievable, but I thought that was my "inner apostate" talking.
Later I happened to meet a former elder who had left the JWs at a meetup. I mentioned my observation. He told me how the process worked and about the offstage script checkers. Later, I met another former elder who told me that the script-readers were real. He also mentioned that sometimes the presentation by the "pioneers" really does not represent their lives (often the same exact "pioneer talk" is given at several different convention locations). The local elders recommend JWs who are serving as pioneers or elders and then they are given the script to read and told that they are representing other exceptional pioneers - not themselves personally.
It's all very scripted. I still can not get over the sing-song style that most JW speakers use now - far too practiced and rehearsed - just like the JW.org videos and training sessions on disk.
JV
 +1 / -0
Diogenesister
Diogenesister 2 hours ago

Juan Viejo2 It's all very scripted. I still can not get over the sing-song style that most JW speakers use now - far too practiced and rehearsed
Hell yeah! It drives me mad, I don't know how the modern witnesses can stand it...talk about a witnesses being a culture...its almost become an actual JW " dialect"
 
Hecce
Hecce an hour ago
The speaker is out of the "reservation".
 
elbib
elbib an hour ago
Bethelites sometime do such blunter. In my congregation too it happened. A bethelite gave a public talk on the biblical incident of 10 lepers being cured by Jesus, yet only one of the returning to thank him. It was not an outline-talk. Later he was counselled by Bethel higher ups.
 

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Topic Summary
hi guys and gals,.
its been a long time since i've posted here, i've been caught up with school and work so i've never had the time to post on the forum, but i've still been reading through some articles on here.
now that finals are over i have some time to breath.



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HOW DO YOU LIKE ME NOW?
by eyeuse2badub 9 hours ago 6 Replies latest 2 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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eyeuse2badub
eyeuse2badub 9 hours ago

Report in the news today that Prince is leaving a large portion of his fortune to the watchtower. Bet the gb loves Prince now and his 'questionable' music!
just sayingeyeuse2badub
 +1 / -0
FayeDunaway
FayeDunaway 9 hours ago
How is that possible without a will?
 +1 / -0
sir82
sir82 9 hours ago


Report in the news today that Prince is leaving a large portion of his fortune to the watchtower.
Sure, if "report in the news" = "some brainless JW posted a rumor on their Facebook page"

 +1 / -0
Barrold Bonds
Barrold Bonds 2 hours ago

AP reported that according to his sister, he left no will.
Let's not let facts get in the way of the insane theories that have flooded this message board since his death.
 +2 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 2 hours ago

Bullshit unfound speculation


 
Dunedain
Dunedain 2 hours ago
He did NOT have a will, so unless he has been resurrected 3 days after his death, and personally called the GB, I call BS!
 
violias
violias 2 hours ago
his sister applied to court today to be executor of his estate. he has several half brothers and sisters also.
 +1 / -0

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Watchtower set for its biggest pay day, ever.
by pleaseresearch 16 hours ago 27 Replies latest 9 minutes ago   watchtower bible
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pleaseresearch
pleaseresearch 16 hours ago
If this is true, and we will have to wait and see. Prince could give everything to the Watchtower. So that's his $300 million fortune. But the main treasure chest is the unreleased music hes produced. Said to cover a century of money making years for the Watchtower. This is amazing if true. There will be no stopping them if this happens. They will have enough money to cover up anything and settle out of court with any future court case.
 +1 / -1
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 16 hours ago

Ah yes..."Jehovah provided" just like he did when the Egyptians gave the escaping Israelites all their wealth.....
Watch it get spun like that.
 +3 / -0
notsurewheretogo
notsurewheretogo 16 hours ago

Would it be right for the WT to accept the money since Prince made most of it from "music that is deemed not appropriate for a Christian"?
Especially if it stumbled others?
 +7 / -0
sir82
sir82 16 hours ago
Someone posted on here that Prince died intestate, so his estate would pass on to his next of kin.

 +13 / -1
joe134cd
joe134cd 16 hours ago
Yes I have also wondered a similar thing notsurewheretogo. Weather it would be a good idea for Wt to accept the money considering how it's been earned.
 +2 / -0
pleaseresearch
pleaseresearch 15 hours ago
Yeah I never thought of that before. About would they accept it knowing what were in some of the lyrics etc... Very interesting.
 +2 / -0
Diogenesister
Diogenesister 14 hours ago
Yes, I've read he hadn't made a will - if so it will all go to his sister YAY! Even if he had she could fight it. Personally I think 25 years on opiates and downers explains why an intelligent guy became a witness in his later years. That and the fact his moma was a seventh day adventist, which would have pre- disposed him to religious quakery.
 +6 / -0
punkofnice
punkofnice 14 hours ago
I hope his sister gets it all. Anyone, but not the paedophile paradise corporation.
 +6 / -0
sowhatnow
sowhatnow 13 hours ago

he died without a will?! why would he do that?, surely his close freinds would have advised him to have one, its common sense when you have what he had.
why would he give any to wt,  its not like he  'gave up a music career to become a pioneer' lol
if the wt were to get any, it be in my opinion in poor taste, becase they knew of his  WT disapproved  'lifestyle'.



 +4 / -0
joe134cd
joe134cd 12 hours ago
I think it could be a good thing if he did leave Wt the money, as it could very well undermine them. Such a hugh sum like that when you desperately need it can be very hard to refuse. On the flip side how do you explain accepting tainted money to the rank and file. Would it cause a mass walk out.
 +1 / -0

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Watchtower set for its biggest pay day, ever.
by pleaseresearch 16 hours ago 27 Replies latest 12 minutes ago   watchtower bible
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notsurewheretogo
notsurewheretogo 12 hours ago

The Daily Mail reported in a headline he had no will and that his next of kin, his crack addict sister inherits everything but if you read the article it said IF he had not made a will.
I'm pretty sure Prince's advisors made him have a will.
If you have not seen this clip about Prince from Kevin Smith watch it...it is brilliant.





 +3 / -0
oppostate
oppostate 12 hours ago

Would it be right for the WT to accept the money since Prince made most of it from "music that is deemed not appropriate for a Christian"?
Especially if it stumbled others?
To the WT hierarchs money is money, especially when it becomes theirs. The WT don't care where it comes from.
But if you are gainfully employed in an industry the WT deems unworthy, forget about it, you've got six months to find other employment or your rear is getting the boot.
 +3 / -0
millie210
millie210 12 hours ago

I am wondering if it is possibly a chance he didnt have a will?
The reason I wonder is because the Org seems to be circling this story like a shark in the water. LIke they smell potential.
Are they prepping his sister for a handout saying its "what Br Nelson would have wanted"?


If there was a will, everyone would know by now wouldnt they?
 +2 / -0
Virran
Virran 11 hours ago

It's very possible he didn't have a will. He was still pretty "young", at least at heart and I'm sure he didn't think he would die anytime soon. And that the worst that could happen to his money if he did is that it would be appointed to his next of kin.
To will all your fortune to a religion you don't follow 100% sounds extreme, unless of course he viewed it as an atonement for his "sinful" way of life. But I really, really hope he wasn't that confused, poor guy.
If the WT gets even a penny of this ridiculous amount of moolah it's a penny too much and I will be pissed.
 +2 / -0
notsurewheretogo
notsurewheretogo 11 hours ago

He was 57...I am 40 and I have a will...he is a massive celebrity with a fortune...he had PA's, accountants, advisors etc.
They all would say to him that a will is a must.
 +2 / -0
redpilltwice
redpilltwice 11 hours ago

According to this Dutch newspaper, Prince didn't have a will (at least not until 2014). Money would go to his 6 (half) brothers and sisters, not to the WT.
Time will tell...
http://www.telegraaf.nl/prive/25673646/___Geen_testament_Prince_gevonden___.html
 +1 / -0
ToesUp
ToesUp 11 hours ago

I don't think they will get a dime.
The important thing to us is, they will receive NONE OF OUR MONEY!
 +3 / -0
Virran
Virran 11 hours ago

Well, if he did get strongly advised to set up a will by his financial advisors I sure hope the same ones told him it's a bad, bad idea to make it out to a sect. Especially one that you're not totally devoted to.
Prince didn't have any kids so I don't see how he could have viewed a will as that important. But, only time will tell. They say the guy was a genius and that's often a fine line from being insane, so who knows. I'm pretty sure he forked over substantial amounts to the WT when still alive.



 +1 / -0
millie210
millie210 11 hours ago

I am thinking he did hand over plenty while alive.
What was strange though was did you see the local KH he "attended"? It looked like a set for a 60s movie.
The chairs and windows and colors look like there hasnt been a remodel in a "generation" (lol I am having fun with that term today) or so. So did his money immediately get funneled upward? Because you sure cant see that any of it was used in the local KH.
 +1 / -0
WTWizard
WTWizard 10 hours ago
They deserve nothing. I would like to see them taxed at more than 100% of everything they get on this. And, if the washtowel gets royalties on Prince's music, I hope LimeWire or similar programs deliver more of it than whatever the washtowel can make money off of. Hopefully, the washtowel gets nothing of Prince's older (and far superior) music--you know, the ones with the explicit content warnings.

 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
if this is true, and we will have to wait and see.
prince could give everything to the watchtower.
so that's his $300 million fortune.



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Watchtower set for its biggest pay day, ever.
by pleaseresearch 16 hours ago 27 Replies latest 14 minutes ago   watchtower bible
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pleaseresearch
pleaseresearch 10 hours ago
I would love it if  we found out that he did leave the WT a large chunk of his money but... part of the agreement with Watchtower is that, JWs had to sing all of his classics every meeting instead of what was in the song book they have now.
 
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 10 hours ago

This is amazing if true
Most likely not true.
Prince in his final years was a faded JWS not a strongly devout one.
Make assumptions on that

 
eyeuse2badub
eyeuse2badub 9 hours ago

Conversation among the GB today
"Hell with the Prince of Peace, we're getting a piece of Prince, $300 million!" Praise jah!
"Let us pray"
just saying!
eyeuse2badub
 +1 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 8 hours ago

On the flip side how do you explain accepting tainted money to the rank and file. Would it cause a mass walk out.
Are you delusional? WTS would take ice cream money from a kid. There is no such thing as "tainted" money.
Doc

 +2 / -0
steve2
steve2 5 hours ago

 About would they accept it knowing what were in some of the lyrics etc... Very interesting.
When has any individual, group or organization anywhere EVER declined money bequeathed to them - regardless of its source?
But that is not even an issue since he died intestate and according to state law, immediate relatives get it - provided they can read broad consensus on how it is distributed. I understand that none of his surviving siblings are JWs - although given they come from a 7th-Day Adventist background, perhaps that religion stands to benefit from Prince's death.
 
Gratefullyunstuck
Gratefullyunstuck an hour ago
they probably bumped him off! the need is greater in their pockets!
 
DNCall
DNCall an hour ago
His sister filed papers opening probate. You don't do that if there is a will.
 
Lee Elder
Lee Elder 14 minutes ago

With such a large estate, Probate would be required in Minnesota regardless of whether or not there is a will. If his compound or other real estate was owned in "Joint Tenancy" it could pass directly to the other named owners/owners or "Joint Tenants" on the deed thus bypassing probate. The same would be true of jointly held accounts, payable on death accounts or life insurance that names a beneficiary. If he had a total of $50,000 or less in personal property, then probate can be avoided. Obviously, that is not the case.
The term "probate" actually comes from the Latin "to prove", and refers to the legal process of proving that someone had a valid will. They had to "prove" their claim to the estate. My guess is that this will be a very complex probate process that could drag on for years.

 

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Topic Summary
if this is true, and we will have to wait and see.
prince could give everything to the watchtower.
so that's his $300 million fortune.



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Watchtower Paralells Mormonism
by Saved_JW 6 months ago
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by Saved_JW 15 days ago
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by Saved_JW 5 months ago



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Much todo about nothing
by Crazyguy a day ago 1 Replies latest a day ago   watchtower medical
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Crazyguy
Crazyguy a day ago

I was with a friend that had a surgery and of course they are witnesses and they went through all the blood documents before surgery. Then with another friend they prayed to the great bull god jah and thanked him for all the bloodless techniques now used by the hospital etc. The doctor made it clear that the chance of even needing blood was minimal and the surgery now is real easy. But man they have to make a big deal over nothing. Its all about them and the god that only cares for them.
One thing I did notice is that the hospital mention the use of bovine products more then once. I asked and they said Hemopure is not used in the USA. Wonder what company is now supplying bovine products?
 +1 / -0
freddo
freddo a day ago

McDonalds?
Sorry crazy guy I'm in a foolish mood today. I hope someone can answer your question sensibly.
 +2 / -0

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Why bring God when you can do it yourself?
by elbib a day ago 6 Replies latest a day ago   watchtower beliefs
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elbib
elbib a day ago

When under temptation, one can easily deflate it by simply changing his thoughts and choosing his associations wisely. (Philippians 4:8, 9; 1 Corinthians 15:33) Then why did Jesus teach us to pray to God: “Lead us not into temptation”? (Mathew 6:13)
In the same vein, there are things which complicated matters: “This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.” (Mathew 13:13) Classic example of this is the Parable of Faithful and Discreet Slave in Mathew 24:45. Nobody got it correctly!
It shows Jesus may not have spoken such words because of the fact that he did pray for unity among his disciples. (John 17:20, 21)
 
DJS
DJS a day ago

God is no different than drugs, alcohol, food or whatever else that weak minded and undisciplined humans have turned to in an attempt to rationalize/excuse or 'help' them when the real and only problems are:
A Lack of Personal Accountability and Personal Responsibility.
Until we accept that each of us does have the internal character and strength to make better decisions and overcome or mitigate our predispositions and/or desires, we will never reach the potential locked in our DNA.
The two most powerful forces in the universe are personal accountability and personal responsibility. The devil didn't make you do it. It is your fault. There are consequences for each decision you make, and there is no imaginary person in the sky who can help you.
If some of you would start repeating this as a mantra and then applying it in your lives you would be amazed at the changes and improvements.
 +1 / -0
David_Jay
David_Jay a day ago

While the way these texts you quote are precise formal-equivalent or word-for-word translations, these types of renditions can cause readers problems if they read them as if they were written using English idiom. This is all that is causing confusion.
For instance, if I were to say: "What is the count of years in your possession?" That is an accurate word-for-word translation of a Spanish phrase. But it might confuse English readers because it follows Spanish idiom. We don't say the phrase this way in English. Instead we say: "How old are you?" Note the vast difference?
Whereas word-for-word Bible translations lend to great study, they often lend little to comprehension for readers, especially those who know little about the idiomatic terms unique to the cultures, eras, and languages of the Scriptures.
In ancient Hebrew culture, prayerful speech attributes all things, good and evil, to God. It is not a literal means of expression, but meant to imply that divine providence can allow evil only for the eventuality that God will deal with it at the proper time. Idioms are forms of speech often hard to fully appreciate outside of understanding the original language, and even by the time Jesus uttered the words of the famous Lord's Prayer, this type of speech was somewhat archaic. Judaism had already begun to stop attributing evil to God in its theology during the Second Temple era, but the liturgical language of prayer still reflected Biblical speech of pre-Babylonian exile which still did that.
"Do not lead us to temptation," actually means "do not let us fall prey to our temptations" or "give us the strength to face our tests successfully." The expression could actually be rendered "spare us from the hour of test" in reference to what some in Judaism called the "Messianic woes," times of testing that would come from the evil one or persecutors expected by some Jews in the Messianic era.
A similar vein is understood in reference to the use of parables by Jesus. Some of the Hebrew Scripture accounts, while apparently based on historical figures, are actually parable-like morality stories that often take great liberties with dramatic license for teaching purposes. The first few chapters of Daniel are such an example as is the entire book of Jonah. When people read these as literal accounts they come to wrong conclusions in the end, like the Watchtower has for 100 years.
Jesus used the same type of teaching genre, offering stories which obviously could not be literal which were designed to make people ask questions of him. For a person to be a disciple in Judaism, they often had to approach a rabbi several times with a question before a direct answer was given them (some in Judaism do something similar today). The teaching technique demonstrates the student's seriousness of resolve to find an answer and the rabbi's desire to teach the disciple how to think for themselves to find right answers.
The parables are the same. If people were not serious about learning from Jesus, they would not inquire and follow him to ask for an explanation. Those that would, Jesus would often act like many rabbis still do, acting surprised that the student didn't understand. It's just a Hebrew teaching technique, like methods used at the college level in universities which are used by professors to weed out true students from those who are just warming seats, so to speak.
The expression about why Jesus speaks in parables that you quote is also a Semitic idiom. It can be rendered: "I teach in parables to teach them that they don't currently look deep enough into things, nor do they listen with deep enough intent, nor do they really use their brain to think." Jesus wanted unity, but not followers who had little more interest than "passing the class," to use a current modern idiom.
 +2 / -0
elbib
elbib a day ago

David Jay,
Nice to hear the details, and it make sense. However, result of such communications in the Bible served no purpose except creation of sects like JWs.
 
David_Jay
David_Jay a day ago

You are correct, elbib. Employed in the fashion employed by the Witnesses, the Scriptures are confusing.
The Witnesses, as you are likely aware, follow a popular principle that many of the other New Religious Movements of America's Secong Great Awakening adopted. Invented by the bishop-turned heretic Marcion of Sinope, they read the Bible as if it is God's ultimate, final, and exhaustive authority and form of revelation. This gnostic principle is opposite of Christinaity which in contrast views Jesus Christ as the basis for their religion, and the Scriptures as a product of this revelation.
Marcion taught that the Gnostics were correct that only a select minority was chosen by God to be saved from the evil world, but that the Gnostics were equally wrong in saying that no one else could gain salvation. The Gnostics claimed that "salvific knowledge" or "gnosis" was hidden in the holy writ of religions, and only the chosen minority could understand these secrets. Marcion believed the holy writ was limited to Paul's epistles and an edited form of Luke's Gospel, but that this select group could teach this "gnosis" to followers who would need to follow and hang on to every word of the chosen ones less they perish with this world.
Oddly, Marcion was reportedly "surprised" when he was excommunicated and stripped of his position for his teaching. But his ideas and followers never really died off. The Church Fathers eventually had to develop an official canon of liturgical and teaching texts in response to Marcion's challenge, but the idea kept rising up over the centuries.
The American era of the religious awakening revivals rejected traditional religious ideas, including those of the Reformation. Marcion's ideas became popular once again, with the Bible being used as if it was an exhaustive, all-encompassing revelation from God. The problem was that each new group saw themselves as "chosen" by God to bring the only truth that had been "hidden" in the holy writ of Judaism and Christianity...until their new "chosen" group appeared that is.
Read disconnected from the original relgious liturgy and traditions by which the texts were created, the Bible gives quite an incomplete picture. These groups took advantage of the resulting incomplete picture created by disconnecting them from traditional religion, claiming the traditions that shaped the text were all of human or evil origin, and that without following the select chosen leaders of these "Last Day restorationists," the hidden and saving knowledge of the Scriptures could never be discerned.
 
Diogenesister
Diogenesister a day ago
Thank you David_Jay for your in depth and informative posts - it drives me mad that the Witnesses base their whole theology on a book ( Daniel) that the Jews don't even consider a PROPHET! They are considered part of the " writings" in Judaism .
 
elbib
elbib a day ago

David_Jay,
Again thank you for your in-depth analysis of "Last Day restorationists."
The mammoth size of scriptures with their infinite possibilities of interpretations in any direction people like, and also the huge number of religions and sects show that this cannot be God's way of communicating with mankind. Besides, look at the level of intolerance religious leaders manifest when sincere disagreement expressed by a believer. They will go to any extent in human rights violations. This too shows that such agencies cannot be instruments of God
 

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MIL says she wants to donate home
by StarTrekAngel a day ago 9 Replies latest a day ago   watchtower beliefs
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StarTrekAngel
StarTrekAngel a day ago

So my wife and her sisters found out this weekend that their mother has contemplated donating her home to the WT. She did not tell them directly. I am afraid she knew they would not agree. Is there anyone here with experience on this? How do the elders proceed upon being approached with such offer? I understand that in some cases it is possible for someone to hand over the property but still live in it. How aggressive can we expected them to get? I can make my own speculations regarding how money hungry the org is but I am, in this case, trying to see if there are any real life experiences in this forum.
My wife openly admitted I had predicted this would happen. I clarified to her that this move from her doesn't surprise me but that the WT would not hesitate on facilitating her desire. In her case is like giving a gun to a suicidal person.
Thanks
 +1 / -0
freddo
freddo a day ago
Stupid cow. Sorry not much help am I?
 +3 / -1
wifibandit
wifibandit a day ago

Charitable Planning to Benefit Kingdom Service Worldwide (cp-E)
Supporting the Worldwide Work with Tax-Effective Giving (cp-E Bi) is the UK version

 +1 / -0
LoveUniHateExams
LoveUniHateExams a day ago

STA - try to reason with your mum on this. Try to talk her out of it.
The WTS doesn't deserve a penny of your mum's money. I know what I'm talking about - I've been muscled out of money intended for me by a money-grabbing skank, too ...
Best of luck.
 +1 / -1
StarTrekAngel
StarTrekAngel a day ago

LoveUniHateExams. Is actually my mother in law... but not much of a difference. Being the only male in the family that is trusted with these matters is almost like she was my mom too. Would you mind sharing more of your experience, even in a PM if you so desire.
No pressure. Thanks
 +1 / -0
StarTrekAngel
StarTrekAngel a day ago
Thanks wifi bandit.
 
BluesBrother
BluesBrother a day ago

The stuff from wifi bandit will have made this clear , but it is not the local elders that would deal with it. The donation and legal papers would all be arranged with your Bethel . I am damn sure that they would have it sown up legally.
Whether they could be persuaded to refuse it, if your wife and her sisters should contact them and plead with them, I don't know.. Perhaps pleading poverty , a real need for the legacy , and appealing to their Christian conscience????
I would have thought the best bet would be to work on their Mum as a combined family campaign....if they would do it.......
Good luck.
 
LoveUniHateExams
LoveUniHateExams a day ago

Hi STA.
Sent you a PM ...
 
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange a day ago

I think you could find an old WT or Awake! article that encourages people to store up something for their children.
I remember discussing this among several of us when it first came out. It was like, I thought we were supposed to be living like it was the Last Days.
Doc

 
Lostandfound
Lostandfound a day ago

In UK a change to the law on "Family Provisions" became operative a couple of years ago. A will needs to specify why a Close relative is excluded and courts open to contest seeming oversight or lack of inclusion in a Will.
An individual who has mental competence can, in their lifetime, assign ownership of property to someone else or an organisation. Creating a Trust for Sale allowing donor to retain title but it passes on death to whoever. If house was left to wife by late husband, but he specified that when wife died proceeds of house sale to be divided in a certain way then wife cannot alter that
UK land registry can provide details of current property owners, which can give reassurance
 

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The Law of Unintended Consequences
by Londo111 6 hours ago 8 Replies latest 2 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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Londo111
Londo111 6 hours ago

The Governing Body/Watchtower unduly influences millions into extreme beliefs and behaviors. And I suspect folks like Anthony Morris thinks his flock is not obedient or strict enough and there are many rules and teachings the Governing Body would love to enact but do not have the votes, or even they have the sense enough to know it would go too far.
However, I can’t help thinking how by the time their edicts filter down to the rank and file JW, it causes unintended consequences. The flock picks up the belief system and runs with it in directions or to a degree Watchtower never intended. It’s almost as if there is the JW official religion, found in the pages of Watchtower publications, and then there is an unofficial JW folk religion. The ‘peasants’ can easily get whipped into a hysteria.
For instance, while finally dropping the charade and declaring that only the Governing Body is the Faithful Slave, they increased their prestige. Now they have more crazed fans than ever. Likely, they did not intend to become rock stars.
What other things do you think are a result of unintended consequences?
 
Giordano
Giordano 3 hours ago

By discouraging higher learning the JW's are now listed as the least educated religion in the USA in the Pew Survey.
Because of jw,org the internet is now being used and probably abused by JW's in all manner of ways. Everything about them is now fair game.
 
Londo111
Londo111 3 hours ago
Very true. Less education=less donations.
 
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 2 hours ago

I would actually propose that there are four WT stories:
The Secret Official - only to be found or spoken of in hushed tones amongst a select few in a boardroom somewhere.
The Almost Official - found in the Elders manuals, the Letters to BOEs, Branch office directives etc etc.
The Public WT - found in the literature and the website.
The real WT - found in the small- minded, narcissististic, judgemental, intolerant, brainwashed, WT-spiel-quoting-zombies AKA the congregation, the brothers, the friends, etc etc.
An unintended consequence for WT would be oh I don't know, an abuse victim going to the police and taking them to court because they were discouraged from doing so by a cold BOE.
 +1 / -0
OnTheWayOut
OnTheWayOut 2 hours ago

Likely, they did not intend to become rock stars.
 
sparrowdown
sparrowdown 2 hours ago
"By their fruits you will recognize them" WT's "fruits" are rotten to the core.
 
Spiral
Spiral 2 hours ago

Keeping people in you really don't want in, because they can play the system and keep from being DF'd, or get reinstated shortly.
The worst part of that is they really don't even see it.
 
Spiral
Spiral 2 hours ago
oh, and smart people leaving, with their money. They'll do well "in the world" and won't give you a dime.
 
talesin
talesin 2 hours ago

DIsfellowshipping is a great anti-witness. All who have become close to me, hate the religion, and spread the word about the sexism, child abuse (including child martyrs) and shunning.
 

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