Jehovah's-Witness . com forum discussions

Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ My 1970s story on chronology
/  





 

My 1970s story on chronology
by Doug Mason 7 years ago 10 Replies latest 7 years ago   watchtower bible
«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20
Doug Mason
Doug Mason 7 years ago

This is a snapshot of activities I am personally aware of during the 1970s relative to the WTS’s neo-Babylonian chronology. It is not a discussion about the inaccuracy of their chronology.
I joined the Seventh-day Adventist Church in 1964. Later in the 1960s, we were regularly visited at the door by Jehovah's Witnesses. I wanted to know what was true and, as a new Adventist, I wanted to know how to answer them.
I was very fortunate to find a study written in the mid-1960s by Geoff Rogerson, an SDA living in the small country town of Western Australia called Denmark. A scan of his paper is available at http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=8377cf5fcf054a08af64ad4bede37ca4 I understand that a piece written in 1959 by SDA Arthur Patrick inspired Geoff to make his enquiries. It is very parochial, and is available at http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=2accf31ea3b3f00ae290678023b55c16 I then found another study on the subject, which was even more detailed. This was written by Max Hatton from Albany, near the town where Geoff lived. Max had been a JW for 5 years but had been affected by Geoff's work. Max became an SDA and now lives in retirement, following life as a Pastor in the SDA Church. Geoff died just a short time ago.
I thought that their works were too complex for the average person, so I started to write simpler studies on the subject. At least, I think they were simpler. A copy of my 1973 paper is available at http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=aa1f2618172d27c0f46e5972c2748b38 When the WTS released its "Aid" book, I discovered that the author of the article on “chronology” was misquoting and misrepresenting his sources.
So next time the JWs came to my door, I showed them what the Aid book's "chronology" article claimed the authorities were saying, and then I showed them what the original articles actually said. I was so pleased with myself!
But I was totally dumbfounded when the evidence meant nothing to them! I could not believe my eyes. I told them that this was not a question of interpretation but of deliberate deception. They just looked me straight in the face and said that the brothers were human and they made mistakes.
It took me a while to work out that JW's believed anything the WTS said because of whom the leaders claimed to be, regardless of what they said. So I wrote “What the Watchtower Does Not Tell You”. A scan of that paper is available at http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=995583d4e33314f782bf5568b7555ec6 .
When I moved to Melbourne, I was able to help Bruce Price a bit with his “Witness” magazine. He also wrote a book that has been translated into several languages, and he also wrote, “Our Friends the Jehovah’s Witnesses” (available by Googling).
An example of Bruce’s “Witness” magazine is available at http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=0944b2fd4f96f75bdc4b952f5f23500d I think that as a result of the magazines, we were contacted by COJ and RP in Sweden. Their advantage lay in being multi-lingual and having ready access to resources, such as museums in London and Berlin. Quite independently, they had come to the same conclusions as we had about the WTS’s chronology.
Tom Robinson in New Zealand gave me a letter by Philip Couture, in which Couture said he was a Jehovah’s Witness. A scan of that letter is available at http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=accbbf48f0b02f52d02c6299b16606a6 In the Preface to his book, “The Crime of Claudius Ptolemy”, Newton acknowledged Couture, so I was able to expose him.
William MacCarty released his study on chronology http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=a03735977851defc00ea95c475528477 Couture wrote his treatise ( http://www.filesend.net/download.php? f=0eab1b007369573fa234dd4f3bde7d3e ) in response to MacCarty. Although the author of the treatise does not disclose his name, it is known that Couture wrote it.
COJ responded to Couture’s treatise. ( http://www.filesend.net/download.php? f=3864ad92ef3b07baa95f043e58f35c2d ).
At the same time, COJ was involved in heavy correspondence with the WTS. ( http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=f4024c13e827169e3091f276419eedee ) The correspondence shows that the WTS were fully aware of the work being done by SDAs.
During this period, I would often say that my study into the WTS was trimming the fat from my own beliefs. It was a great help, since it made me know what I believed, along with the reasons. I left the SDA Church in 1980, and am no longer affiliated with any human religious organisation. Nevertheless, my interests in the WTS's activities that were kindled during the 1970s continue unabated.
I am pleased that I have been able to continue calling these great people my friends, although sadly, Geoff died recently and Max is now almost totally blind.
This brief account glances across the story about the chronology in the 1970s as I know it. Others produced excellent material during that period, and I would be interested to hear about them.
 
lilyflor
lilyflor 7 years ago

thanks for the downloads, looks like it well be an interesting read.
Lily
 
Doug Mason
Doug Mason 7 years ago

I have been asked for a scan of Max Hatton's material from the 1960s. I will have a look to see if this is feasible.
In the meantime you can read his more recent material (remembering that he spent probably about 30 years or more an an SDA pastor and also that it is not realistic to communicate with him by email, given that he is almost blind).
http://users.bigpond.net.au/mhattonSDA/JEHOVAH%27S%20WITNESSES%20AND%201914.htm
 
Doug Mason
Doug Mason 7 years ago

I found a good copy of the notes that Max Hatton wrote during the late 1960s. My only problem is that the pages are foolscap size, so I will need to reduce them to A4 so that I can scan them. Give me a couple of days, and when I have done it I will provide them in this thread, to keep them in this context.
During my search, I located a copy of Bruce Price's "Witness" magazine where I revealed that the person acknowledged by Newton in his book, "The Crime of Claudius Ptolemy" was a JW. I have uploaded the magazine (see page 14). http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=8fb712dd2361dd0541b5133a834104e7
 
cabasilas
cabasilas 7 years ago

Thanks, Doug, for this fascinating look at the development of the expose of the Watchtower's faulty chronology in the 70s. The work you and Bruce and others did back then was foundational for later research. And thanks for scanning these historical articles for all of us!
 
Black Sheep
Black Sheep 7 years ago

Thank you Doug
 
Bangalore
Bangalore 7 years ago

Thanks Doug.

Bangalore
 
Doug Mason
Doug Mason 7 years ago

I said I would provide Max Hatton's 1960s treatise on the WTS's chronology at this thread, but I have been urged to make it the subject of a separate thread:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/179673/1/Max-Hattons-1960s-study-into-the-WTS-chronology
The WTS was clearly very aware during the 1960s of the problems with their neo-Babylonian chronology.
As a final offering on this particular thread, I provide a certificate sent to me in 1972 by the WTS of Australia. It's available at:
http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=a8272fb1364fa8214bf353977b76675c
 
whereami
whereami 7 years ago

btt
 
jaydee
jaydee 7 years ago

Excellent Doug,....
thanks so much
 

«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
KiddingMe
Police: Teen killed in N.Y. church assault wanted out
by KiddingMe 6 months ago
OrphanCrow
Deaf Aotearoa flooded with complaints about Jehovah's Witness church
by OrphanCrow 6 months ago
Defianttruth
Help to build a "Guide to Your New Faith"
by Defianttruth 2 months ago
JakeM2012
The extent that desperate cults will go to keep control of their youth
by JakeM2012 5 months ago
Bangalore
Abuse redress depends on God: Jehovah's Witnesses
by Bangalore 7 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/179605/my-1970s-story-on-chronology







Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ My 1970s story on chronology
/  





 

My 1970s story on chronology
by Doug Mason 7 years ago 10 Replies latest 7 years ago   watchtower bible
«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20
PSacramento
PSacramento 7 years ago

I have all the info already from your website Doug, it was crucial in getting me to invest in COJ book the gentile times reconsidered.
It amazes me that JW's use secular evidence to justify, for example, the fall of Babylon or the return to their homeland, but that very same secualr evidence that goes against the 607BC date is refuted.
 

«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
this is a snapshot of activities i am personally aware of during the 1970s relative to the wtss neo-babylonian chronology.
it is not a discussion about the inaccuracy of their chronology.. .
i joined the seventh-day adventist church in 1964. later in the 1960s, we were regularly visited at the door by jehovah's witnesses.



Related Topics
KiddingMe
Police: Teen killed in N.Y. church assault wanted out
by KiddingMe 6 months ago
OrphanCrow
Deaf Aotearoa flooded with complaints about Jehovah's Witness church
by OrphanCrow 6 months ago
Defianttruth
Help to build a "Guide to Your New Faith"
by Defianttruth 2 months ago
JakeM2012
The extent that desperate cults will go to keep control of their youth
by JakeM2012 5 months ago
Bangalore
Abuse redress depends on God: Jehovah's Witnesses
by Bangalore 7 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/179605/my-1970s-story-on-chronology?page=2&size=10






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Netherlands Union Conference support gay members in defiance of world church
/  





 

Netherlands Union Conference support gay members in defiance of world church
by barry 2 years ago 4 Replies latest 2 years ago   jw friends
5
10
20
barry
barry 2 years ago

I'm not gay but I do support gay people against hard line christians that forget the principles our Lord demonstrated when he lived among us. Jesus had compassion for the outcasts women and tax collectors outside of society of that day. I find it hard to accept gay people haveing relationships and sexual relations but I find it even more devient of me not to show christian love and acceptance of these people.
I am encouraged by the response of the Netherlands Union conference of SDAs and as you know the SDAs are like a sister church to the JW religion and is just as conservative.
The world SDA church has adopted guidlines for the response to alternative sexual practices. On the 4th April 2014 that would deny practicing gay people from church membership. The general conference president Ted Wilson has said the recommendations are only guidlines not policy. That being said guidlines become policy and then become law.
In responce to this situation the Netherlands Union Conference has advised all churches in its union to fully commit themselves to ensuring that LGBTI individuals feel safe in the church. I addition NUC leadership says it would strongly advise against any steps to revoke the membership of LGBTI people given the unsafe environement this would create in churches .
spectrummagazine.org/blog/2014/04/24/church-netherlands-commits-itself-being-safe-place-lgbti-individuals
 
quellycatface
quellycatface 2 years ago

I agree. Not to show love is un-Christian and judgemental. A bit like the Jdubs!!!
 
barry
barry 2 years ago

Gday Quelly, Congratulations on your baptism and with it your vow to follow the Lord Jesus. Easter in the early church was a favorite time to be baptised
 
Vidiot
Vidiot 2 years ago

More and more people are figuring out that gays and lesbians - as a whole - aren't the frothing, demented freaks the Christian Right has portrayed them as.
Ironic, actually; the more the Christian Right hollered as gays came out of the closet, the more like frothing, demented freaks they themselves looked like.


 
quellycatface
quellycatface 2 years ago

Thanks Bazza.
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
The Searcher
A First Stepping-Stone For Bethelites & Lurkers?
by The Searcher 6 months ago
blondie
Blondie's Highlights from 11-15-2015 WT (FAITH)
by blondie 5 months ago
Wild_Thing
Why is this scripture blank in some bibles and not in others? It is blank in the JW bible, too.
by Wild_Thing a year ago
TerryWalstrom
On Bart Ehrman's Blog+John's use of an early 'Signs document'
by TerryWalstrom 10 months ago
The Searcher
Missionary Deceptively/Mistakenly Misquotes Scripture.........
by The Searcher 7 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/279350/netherlands-union-conference-support-gay-members-defiance-world-church





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ SDA Minister sacked for being more accepting of Gay couples in his church and video of his last sermon
/  





 

SDA Minister sacked for being more accepting of Gay couples in his church and video of his last sermon
by barry 3 years ago 1 Replies latest 3 years ago   jw friends
5
10
20
barry
barry 3 years ago

I'm no longer a SDA but still have an interest on how they are progressing many are wonderful people in serving the lord.
I have been following Ryan Bell at Hollywood Adventist church and how he has connected with the community their also there may be lessons that witnesses can use to effect change in their situations
Ryan has been very innovative in connecting with the community he has introduced Ash wednesday into the church which is unusual for an Adventists church somthing Ive never experianced. He has had Muslim imams from the local mosque take a number of sermons at his church. These may have made the conference a little edgy. Ryan has been actively involved with social justice and other community issues.
The incidents which led to Ryans sacking came when he accepted Gay couples into fellowship. he also was one of the first churches to film ' Seventh Gay Adventists ' a movie about two adventist couples who are SDA and one lesbian couple. Ryan was sacked by the conference not the church.
So if anyone is interested just look at the video it may have some helpful idears in dealing with the WT problems. If th evideo is a bit long for some just look at the second half.

&feature=player_embedded
 
jgnat
jgnat 3 years ago

Thanks for contributing. As I can read faster than listening, videos are hard for me to watch unless they are very short.
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
Balaamsass2
Sunday Washington Post: Gay Christians choosing celibacy emerge from the shadows.
by Balaamsass2 a year ago
truthwillsetyoufree
The hardship of being a gay Jehovahs witness.
by truthwillsetyoufree 2 years ago
Julia Orwell
Trying to overcome my homophobia.
by Julia Orwell 2 years ago
skeeter1
How many Muslim women martyrs do we need before Muslim leaders speak out
by skeeter1 3 years ago
fulltimestudent
What percentage of the population are gay?
by fulltimestudent 9 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/250151/sda-minister-sacked-being-more-accepting-gay-couples-his-church-video-his-last-sermon






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ How to be well treated after leaving JWs
/  





 

How to be well treated after leaving JWs
by barry 10 years ago 5 Replies latest 10 years ago   jw friends
5
10
20
barry
barry 10 years ago


 My Dad a lay preacher in the SDA church is staying here in Canberra and has some idears about how to be well treated by the Elders of the JWs. A member from the Nowra church and the pastor came to my Dads church for services and they went to my Dads house for lunch. It turned out the member from Nowra was a former JW member.
My father got talking to this member about his experiances with the JWs and he was disfellowshiped and had been treated badly as so many here have.
When the JW elders heard this ex JW was going to be Baptized in the SDA church and the JW elders heard about it their attitude began to change and they wanted him back in the Kingdom Hall, no shunning, no disiplinary action.
The ex JW then put the elders in their place and told them in no uncertain terms that there would be no possibility of him rejoining the JWs
When I heard the story I thought thats the answer because its only when JW ex members have no friends or relatives that will even talk to they feel they are in charge but when someone asserts themselves and joins a new community the JWs now their power is lost.
 
barry
barry 10 years ago

Am I on to something here? Would it have worked in youre situation?
 
fullofdoubtnow
fullofdoubtnow 10 years ago

I doubt it would work for me barry. About 20 years ago, a guy left our congregation and, eventually, joined the SDA's himself. He made sure we all knew what he was doing, and how happy he was about it, but he still got shunned, and still does, and he's still an SDA. Once you leave the jws around her, as far as most of them are conxerned, you're dead, and they don't speak to you.
 
LittleToe
LittleToe 10 years ago

I suspect it was only a temporary reprieve, while they tried to court him back. Anything longer would have been a localised abheration to the usual policy. It occurs, but is unusual.
 
kid-A
kid-A 10 years ago

When the JW elders heard this ex JW was going to be Baptized in the SDA church and the JW elders heard about it their attitude began to change and they wanted him back in the Kingdom Hall, no shunning, no disiplinary action.
Your chain is being pulled. There is no way this could have happened. Leaving the JWs is one thing, joining another church is considered the ultimate form of apostacy. No way these elders would have risked their own necks by even talking to ex-dub who was about to actively join another church. People have been DF'd for even talking with apostates or possessing apostate materials.
 
Wasanelder Once
Wasanelder Once 10 years ago

I agree with Kid-a, this is probably a misunderstanding. It's possible he was disfellowshipped for some other matter than Apostacy. If the elders see that a person is no longer practicing the sin they were DF'd for, they will approached and encouraged to return. Of course only the elders could do that legally though others who observe the change, (if its obvious) might join in the campaign of their own volition. This most likely is the situation. The fact that he was joining the SDA's shows he was practicing a form of devotion to God and they must have asssumed he had repented of whatever he was ousted for.
W.Once
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
KiddingMe
Police: Teen killed in N.Y. church assault wanted out
by KiddingMe 6 months ago
JakeM2012
The extent that desperate cults will go to keep control of their youth
by JakeM2012 5 months ago
TTWSYF
What's up with the HEBREWS translation?
by TTWSYF 4 months ago
Defianttruth
Help to build a "Guide to Your New Faith"
by Defianttruth 2 months ago
Saved_JW
Watchtower Paralells Mormonism
by Saved_JW 5 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/118834/how-well-treated-after-leaving-jws





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ SDA Church spawns a Cult
/  





 

SDA Church spawns a Cult
by barry 12 years ago 8 Replies latest 12 years ago   jw friends
5
10
20
barry
barry 12 years ago

Yes thats right folks lock up you re friends and relatives and daughters because this Cult makes the JWs look weak in the cult market.

The Lord our Righteousness Church and some of the teachings are.
Micheal Travesser has the soul of Jesus and other members can become gods.
Members cant die because all members have reached perfection and perfect men cant die.
Headship of the husband. It is easily to control one member of a family so the wife cant ask questions and has to be submissive.
New members must write a letter of disconnection to family and loved ones.
The SDA Church and all other Churches are Bablyon the great.

And here is a funny one. The doctrine of donimion. When Adam before sin had dominion over the animals that dominion has been restored to the faithfull. Michael Travesser or Michael the Archangel as he is sometimes called frequently tells how he has no gophers in his garden by drawing a line around his property and muttering a few incantations can control even nature.
Read here for youreself http://www.sdadefend.com/lor_4.htm
 
Satanus
Satanus 12 years ago

Sounds like another david koresh - waco, texas. Could somebody do a frontal lobotomy on this guy before more idiots follow him?
S
 
barry
barry 12 years ago

Satanus there are allways a few thats the problem.

I had to rush out and do a job two more things I wanted to say.
The recruiters have a way of talking in slow monotone way sort of hypnotic way to get recruits.

Free striptease shows. yea I couldnt beleive it they are asked to take all their cloths off in front of the congregation to show their loyalty to the group.
This bloke has his group on a ranch in New Mexico and his group has been going since 2000. He uses the prophesy in Revelation about the three and a half years to show his group is being taken care of by god in the wilderness. The same one JWs use for 1914 when the secretary and treasurer were put in jail and the churches celebrated their imprisonment. Barry
 
Amazing1914
Amazing1914 12 years ago

Barry,
Fascinating. Oddly enough, the SDA church is a cult itself. It is a from the same root stock as Jehovah's Witnesses. Their universal issue is the Sabbath and they teach a paradise earth, no hell fire, etc. It is no wonder that they spawn more cults. Jehoah's Witnesses spawned a few cults, such as Layman's Home Missionary movement (P.S.L.Johnson) ... a worse cult than the Watchtower. I met one of their ex-members at a BRCI conference. LHM is more screwed up than Jehoivah's Witnesses.
Jim W.
 
willy_think
willy_think 12 years ago

Now let me get this straight I get to hang with the big guy J.C. Himself, see naked chicks and be a god someday? There is obviously no down side to this one, maybe I'll sign me up for the god thing...
 
barry
barry 12 years ago

Gday Amazing 1914,
Being a third generation SDA myself the beleif of the SDA church is that all christians go to heaven after the millenium the paradise earth is established. The paradise earth is not talked about much.
As for no hell fire I have read even the Pope doesnt beleive that. Hell to many christians is the understanding of separation from God.
Youre half right about the SDAs being a non christian cult. A study of thousands of hours and extensive meetings with Adventist officials by Barnhouse and Martin in the 1950 established SDA was not a anti christian cult, but rather a somewhat heterodox [i.e,departing from accepted doctrine] christian denomination. http://web2.airmail.nett/billtod/crisda.txt
Of course the reason for so much confusion about SDA is there is a wide range of beleif from traditional to evangelical beleif and many varied ministries many not supported by the church but still accepted. Some SDAs are Arian like the JWs and have their literature with the church logo while at the same time most beleive the Trinity.
The traditional SDAs beleive the prophet Ellen White has scriptural authority and this is I beleive the big problem with these ongoing cults after all if you beleive Ellen White is a Prophet any tom Dick or Harry could be one all you have to do is plagerise the writings of other christians as Ellen White has done.

Jim when us Evangelical Adventists are finnished reforming the SDAs we are all joining the JWs. After all we will have the experiance it will be a piece of cake.
PS That link in my first post appears to be a traditional SDA site I would have little agreement with their doctrine but it was usefull to find information about the LOR church. Barry
 
avengers
avengers 12 years ago

see naked chicks and be a god someday? There is obviously no down side to this one, maybe I'll sign me up for the god thing...
I'll sign up too,,,,for the naked chicks thing.
lol.....Andy
ps. question. serious. Do more women or more men fall for this cult-thing,
because then I might have to reconsider.
 
barry
barry 12 years ago

you blokes have a serious cult problem.
 
Amazing1914
Amazing1914 12 years ago

Hi Barry,
I received your PM, thanks. Excellent and informative post about SDA. You are very correct about their teachings. And I liked your points about Ellen White. I still have her book, The Great Controversy.
Btw: I am most interested in how your group is reforming the SDA. Maybe you can write a text for ex-JWs so that they can build a plan to do something similar. Thanks again. - Jim W.
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
blondie
Blondie's Highlights from 11-15-2015 WT (FAITH)
by blondie 5 months ago
Wonderment
How credible are NWT critiques? A look at Allin's evaluation of Jn 8:58.
by Wonderment 2 months ago
Wonderment
How credible are NWT's critiques?: Allin and John 8:58. (2)
by Wonderment 2 months ago
Terry
A POP QUIZ about the origin of "NEW LIGHT"
by Terry 2 months ago
JW_Rogue
Your Answers vs. WT Propaganda
by JW_Rogue 2 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/77596/sda-church-spawns-cult






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ The mindset of another Religion. The SDA Church
/  





 

The mindset of another Religion. The SDA Church
by barry 15 years ago 5 Replies latest 15 years ago   jw friends
5
10
20
barry
barry 15 years ago

When a minister skied to church, his board of elders accused him of desecrating the Sabbath. ''Why mom,ye skied on the lord's holy day,'' said one of the elders. The minister protested; But that was the only way I could have come to services. The snow was too deep to drive. ''Thats not the p'int,'' The charman shot back at him. ''The p'int is this; Did ye enjoy it?'' Is this realy the mindset in the SDA Church or have I got it wrong. I think Mr Moe would like to know, Any how i'll be back with further postings on the subject.
 
MrMoe
MrMoe 15 years ago


That is so silly - sorta like asking a person if they enjoyed driving to thier place of worship or enjoyed taking a bath. Didn't they bother to read the gospel accounts? Of course - after a while they take the bible away from you, so what's the diff?
Barry - please share more on SDA - I find it very interesting. My inlaws are SDA and I want to speak with them from some "inside" knowledge.
Moe
 
Stealth
Stealth 15 years ago

Interesting, I recently moved next door to a SDA church. I noticed that they hold a service on Saturday mornings instead of Sunday. Why is this? Is the Sabbath on Saturday or Sunday for the SDA? or is this just a local thing in my area? What can/can't a SDA do on a Sabbath day?
 
jelly
jelly 15 years ago


What do the initials SDA stand for?
Jelly
 
lisaBObeesa
lisaBObeesa 15 years ago

Seventh Day Adventist
 
AMOS
AMOS 15 years ago

Stealth,
The original Jewish sabbath was from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. After Jesus died Christians got together on Sunday which was the resurrection day. Sunday, should never have been called the Sabbath, it was never introduced to replace the Sabbath. But.....over time it became a substitute sabbath for the general church population over the centuries. When the SDA's started in the 1840's, from which the JW's split from later, they took a view of the Law of Moses that was literalistic, and legalistic and kept their religious day on Saturday.
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
Defianttruth
Help to build a "Guide to Your New Faith"
by Defianttruth 2 months ago
the girl next door
700K+ views Ex-JW schoolgirl exposes organisation
by the girl next door 2 months ago
Lostandfound
...and other Animals 2
by Lostandfound 3 months ago
oppostate
Jehovah's Witnesses 'ordered destruction' of notes which could have been used during child sexual abuse inquiry
by oppostate 2 months ago
Coded Logic
State lawsuit against Jehovah's Witnesses
by Coded Logic 4 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/11358/mindset-another-religion-sda-church





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home





Search 'sda church'
First
 Next
  ozziepost
55
Elders raid a SDA church!
by ozziepost in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 11 years ago
. G'day all,. . Is it true what we're hearing? It's been reported to us that two elders burst in to a SDA church ...

villagegirl
prologos
Scott77
3 years ago
blondie
13
SDA Church Must Pay $2M To Abused Girl.
by blondie in Social
 » News & World Events
 13 years ago
An 11-year-old son of a church pastor molested a 5-year-old in 1997. . . CARA ROBERTS MUREZ . Statesman Journal .

UnDisfellowshipped
barry
Tanalyst
13 years ago
barry
12
SDA church general conference has voted NO on womens ordination and now there is a big fight.
by barry in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 9 months ago
last wednesday the question was put 'can unions ordain women as ministers in the sda church? the vote was defeated ...

barry
steve2
Vidiot
9 months ago
Kent
The Reason for "Love Africa" Campaign?
by Kent in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 15 years ago
"I want to let you know that Government is not a threat to you so the church too should not be a threat," Rev ...

barry
5
How to be well treated after leaving JWs.
by barry in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 10 years ago
My Dad a lay preacher in the SDA church is staying here in Canberra and has some idears about how to be well treated ...

LittleToe
kid-A
Wasanelder Once
10 years ago
barry
4
Netherlands Union Conference support gay members in defiance of world church.
by barry in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 2 years ago
The world SDA church has adopted guidlines for the response to alternative sexual practices.

barry
Vidiot
quellycatface
2 years ago
barry
1
SDA Minister sacked for being more accepting of Gay couples in his church and video of his last sermon.
by barry in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 3 years ago
I'm no longer a SDA but still have an interest on how they are progressing many are wonderful people in serving the ...

jgnat
3 years ago
barry
8
SDA Church spawns a Cult.
by barry in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 12 years ago
The SDA Church and all other Churches are Bablyon the great.. . . And here is a funny one. The doctrine of donimion.

avengers
barry
Amazing1914
12 years ago
barry
5
The mindset of another Religion. The SDA Church.
by barry in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 15 years ago
Is this realy the mindset in the SDA Church or have I got it wrong. I think Mr Moe would like to know, ...

jelly
lisaBObeesa
AMOS
15 years ago
Doug Mason
10
My 1970s story on chronology.
by Doug Mason in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 7 years ago
Max became an SDA and now lives in retirement, following life as a Pastor in the SDA Church.

whereami
jaydee
PSacramento
7 years ago
First
 Next
 
 
 


Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/search/?q=sda+church






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Seventh Gay Adventists, a movie you should see
/  





 

Seventh Gay Adventists, a movie you should see
by barry 3 years ago 7 Replies latest 3 years ago   jw friends
5
10
20
barry
barry 3 years ago

A film about faith on the margins. Directors Daneen Akers and Stephen Eyer and screenings listed at www.sgamovie.com
'WOW. What a beautiful film! Thanks to those featured in the film for being so vulnerable and real -it took great courage to tell your stories the way you did, and we were humbled and deeply toughed by your witness. I can,t imagine anyone seeing this and not being profoundly moved by it. and thanks to La Sierra university church for being brave enough to host this event. It was as awsome spirit filled experience. Lorelei Cress.
Of course this film is being shown not only in churches but at Melbourne Queer Film Festival , Seattle lesbian and Gay film festival.
For such a film as this to be accepted by many SDA is something of a miracle and is about two gay couples and one lesbian couple and their relationship with the church. The SDA church is allmost as conservative as the witnesses.
This from Roy Gane professor SDA theological seminary Andrews university, 'Whatever ones position regarding homosexuals and the church may be this film is worth seeing because it candidly probes issues with real human faces and stories'



 
barry
barry 3 years ago


 
barry
barry 3 years ago




 
Wilfried
Wilfried 3 years ago

How I would like to watch it in french
 
barry
barry 3 years ago

Gday wilfried , I looked if that movie is in another lingo but to no avail.
The guy who first talks on both videos had been in therapy for 5 years trying to change to being straight but he fell in love with a man anyway.
Its not easy being gay and religious and I believe they need our support. The suicide rate for gay religious people is 8 times the general population
 
jwfacts
jwfacts 3 years ago

Amazing to see gay people that love being a SDA so much that they continue to go to hear the sermons, despite how the Church and members are against them being gay.
 
barry
barry 3 years ago

jw facts not all the SDA members are against them many support them I have found out the lesbian couple in the video are office bearers in the church now but are unsure of a new minister appointed to their church. The SDAs are pluralistic in their beliefs my grandmother was a very devout SDA but wouldn't go to church in the last 20 years of her life because of the liberal members v the conservative members v the progressive members. Thats why our family is now Anglican
Many in the church do think for themselves look at sgamovie.com see the sda members that gave their approval of the movie and the movie was shown in some sda churches.
Many sda go to a church school and then go onto an sda university and are not exposed to the wider community. Unlike the witnesses they do promote education.
I don't have the same connection with many of my former sda friends I used to have non sda friends visit their churches when I was a kid so I don't have that same connection. Also I can't stand Ellen White
 
LisaRose
LisaRose 3 years ago

My grandson is SDA, he has gone to SDA school only, he is graduating high school in June and plans go to SDA college to major in theology or divinity. I don't know that much about the church, but I do think it has been good for him. He attends SDA due to his other grandmother, neither of his parents attend. He seems very well adjusted, lots of friends, just a really great kid. His long term goal is to have his own non denominational church someday, which tells me he is not that committed to the religion. At least he will get an education out of it, I am y happy about that.
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
Balaamsass
Washington Post article by Director of Jehovah's Witness PBS Documentary "Knocking". 3 years later.
by Balaamsass 4 years ago
betterdaze
When religion is the bully: Joel P. Engardio
by betterdaze 5 years ago
Balaamsass2
Sunday Washington Post: Gay Christians choosing celibacy emerge from the shadows.
by Balaamsass2 a year ago
truthwillsetyoufree
The hardship of being a gay Jehovahs witness.
by truthwillsetyoufree 2 years ago
whereami
Ugandan Gay Rights Activist Beaten to Death
by whereami 5 years ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/250575/seventh-gay-adventists-movie-you-should-see





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Disfellowshiping and Disassociation the SDA way
/  





 

Disfellowshiping and Disassociation the SDA way
by barry 12 years ago 4 Replies latest 12 years ago   jw friends
5
10
20
barry
barry 12 years ago

Actually they, the SDAs, dont do either what they do is to 'Drop Membership' as they now call it. It was beleived in the past Disfellowshiping had negative sentiment and so they changed the name, of course they have never shunned.
I sometimes have a look on a website called Former Adventist Fellowship and being an Adventist who is in the Gospel side of the church and opposed to traditional Cultic Adventism I agree with a lot of their material.
This thread is titled 'Request to drop membership'
Posted on Monday June 2004 My husband wrote a letter a few weeks ago to the SDA church he had his last membership at. He got a response letter today, so I thought I,d share it with you all.
Dear xxxxxxxx
At the xxxxxxx Church business meeting this past week, it was voted to drop youre name from membership at the xxxxxx Adventist Church, at youre request.
Though we regret that you have made this decision , we want to assure you that we respect your wishes and believe that our gracious God will lead you and bless you abundantly.We rejoice in the same gospel of grace, and look forward to meeting you in heaven one day, with warm christian greetings.
xxxxxxxxx
Senior Pastor.
I thought it was quite a decent letter as in my experiance with the SDAs and also the Baptists just ignore such requests to drop membership and the person doesnt know whether his or her wishes have been implemented.
You can read the whole thread on http://64.227.85.187/discus/messages/11/2074.html?1087939034
Barry
 
seattleniceguy
seattleniceguy 12 years ago

Wow. I can't even imagine the Witnesses being decent enough to give that kind of respectful reply. That's amazing.
SNG
 
seeitallclearlynow
seeitallclearlynow 12 years ago

Barry,
That's a wonderful policy they have there! They actually sound Christian.
 
ozziepost
ozziepost 12 years ago

They actually sound Christian
well that would be a change for the dubs, eh?!
 
barry
barry 12 years ago

There you are WT Society if you are reading this you are down 4-0. Surely you dont want to be upstaged by a church of babylon the great by the much more reasonable way they treat those who may dissagree with them.
We Christians have chosen to follow one who went out of his way to encourage, comfort and assist those whom others despised. Those who did the despising in the time of Jesus often felt ethically compelled to do so. They were mistaken. Let's walk is the footsteps of Jesus.
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
KiddingMe
Police: Teen killed in N.Y. church assault wanted out
by KiddingMe 6 months ago
TTWSYF
What's up with the HEBREWS translation?
by TTWSYF 4 months ago
LAWHFol
Does God Exist? / Who is God? These are Questions which Lead nowhere. What is God Like, is the Correct Question.
by LAWHFol 6 months ago
JakeM2012
The extent that desperate cults will go to keep control of their youth
by JakeM2012 5 months ago
OrphanCrow
The Jehovah's Witnesses, the Royal Commission and the Catholic Church
by OrphanCrow 8 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/76439/disfellowshiping-disassociation-sda-way






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ The SDA and Unity
/  





 

The SDA and Unity
by Defender 14 years ago 1 Replies latest 14 years ago   jw friends
5
10
20
Defender
Defender 14 years ago


Here is an interview with the President of the Seventh Day Adventist Church.http://presidential.gc.adventist.org/insidelook/data/2001/09/1002231786/index.html.en
I could not help but notice his emphasis on Unity and remembering something Ray Franz alluded to in one of his books as recurring repetitively throughout Christian churches history.

The second value is unity. God gave to this church a unique structure. We are one body around the world. But in a rapidly growing church, unity does not take care of itself. It needs very careful, disciplined, determined attention.
While I totally agree with the need of a Christian to watch out that his conduct is not stumbling the others, but I do not think Jesus or the Apostle Paul had this constrained view in mind.
Could I say something more about unity? I think if there is anything that comes naturally, it is our assertion of our own freedom, our own rights, our own "Don't tell me what to do." But in a community like the church there is another side to the rights and the health of the community. That is where you constantly recognize that you are part of a body that is much larger than yourself, that as an individual you need to defer to the rights of the larger body of the church as a whole. It is a wonderful biblical concept to be willing to forgo your rights in the interest of the love of the body or the larger community. I think it is profoundly Christian to do that.
And if you thought the WTS is obsessed with stats, check out this...You can even download it to Excel.http://www.adventiststatistics.org/view_Summary.asp?FieldAbr=GC
 
anewperson
anewperson 14 years ago

Colossians says LOVE not sameness of beliefs is the strongest bond of unity. Matthew 7 clearly shows the "narrow road" to walk is not sameness of views but LOVE in action.
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
blondie
Blondie's Highlights from 11-15-2015 WT (FAITH)
by blondie 5 months ago
Wonderment
How credible are NWT's critiques?: Allin and John 8:58. (2)
by Wonderment 2 months ago
Wonderment
How credible are NWT critiques? A look at Allin's evaluation of Jn 8:58.
by Wonderment 2 months ago
Saved_JW
Discussion with a Pioneer: CONCLUSION
by Saved_JW 5 months ago
TTWSYF
What's up with the HEBREWS translation?
by TTWSYF 4 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/21443/sda-unity





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Help: Been Disfellowshipped for 6 Days
/  





 

Help: Been Disfellowshipped for 6 Days
by weskerbouts 4 years ago 36 Replies latest 4 years ago   jw experiences
«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
 5
10
20
weskerbouts
weskerbouts 4 years ago

Six days ago, on the 24th, the announcement was made. The prior 3 weeks were an 'interesting' time after having come forward about my sin (problem). (I have an addiction to pornography.) Before the announcement, I spent time with close friends and family (all JWs) and told them what was to come. I was almost sure that I would kick this, and I intend to still, and work towards reinstatement. But I came across jwfacts.com. Long story short, things are as you would imagine--scary. To me this is a matter of importance, for despite what the WTO does, I believe in a God named Jehovah, in His Son, and His Holy Spirit.
I've prayed on the floor for direction, and there are times during the day when I still think of working towards reinstatment, forgetting what I read, just making a chouice. But this feeling of 'justice'(?) tells me I cannot given mostly the whole 1975 ordeal and the flip-flopping. Scripture indicates God does not work that way. What to do? I have wanted to get an education that I decided not to pursue due to strong influence from dear mentors and WTO's publications advocating trade schools instaed but I need first make things right. I know some here have had these experiences. I do not hate the GB of the WTO, but I do, at present, questions their claims to be 'God's spokesmen' and modern day 'Prophets'. I did have some doubt before baptism in 2005, but not enough to pull aside. I just dug in the literature and closed my ears to everything else and looked to the warmth, love, and encouragement of those around me.
My immediate family with who I live with are not JWs. But I have come to them with some of the material and they say, "I don't know what to tell you." I understand that, but I am waiting for something. My father is an SDA. Their take on things intrigues me. They have a similar teaching with a no Hellfire, no immortality of the soul, they have a belief that sincere followers of God, from any denomination, will be possibly saved. I had a Chief in Navy Bootcamp tell me this... Whenever he was lost in life he looked around at what he had, not what he didn't, said he would work hardest on those. I think, maybe, my father who did not raise me and who came later in my life as an SDA was brought here for a reason, but again, I'm not sure. I am waiting for a 'sign'. One that speaks to me so clearly. I wonder should I give SDA church a try. I know they are very smiliar to JWs. I read that on jwfacts.
What I need now is a miracle...
 
punkofnice
punkofnice 4 years ago

And the miracle is you!
Welcome to reality. We all have our stories and have all come to the conclusion that the watchtower is NOT the one true religion it's a high control group.
Nowhere in the Bible does it indicate that 3 men should make a desicion about you personal life. Nowher in the Bible is the disfellowshipping of the JWs described.
These men have no authority over you or your life. Cast them off your shoulders. Refuse to recognize their self given authority. Do not recognize the self agrandizing watchtower.
Take strength from your non JW family and live.
Research here. Take your time and you'll see how unchristian the watchtower is.
Keep strong we're all rooting for you. We do not judge you.
 
cofty
cofty 4 years ago

Welcome to JWN. Well done on finding JWfacts, you can't unknow what you have learned, there is no way back. Sorry, harsh but true.
SDA would be out of the frying pan into the fire. Slow down, take a break, its like ending a relationship, its no time to go looking for somebody else on the rebound.
I am waiting for a 'sign'. One that speaks to me so clearly.
Then you will read whatever suits you into whatever random stuff happens next. You are vulnerable right now, let go of all religion for now and rebuild your life.
I have wanted to get an education that I decided not to pursue due to strong influence from dear mentors and WTO's publications
There is your answer. Get an education, make friends plan for a long future that will NOT include divine intervention
As for you addiction to porn perhaps it will help once you form new relationships. Sex is like food, the only people who obsess about at gluttons and anoroxics.
Best wishes

Cofty
 
yknot
yknot 4 years ago



Glad you joined The SDA's are our distant cousins from Adventist Movement. So, you are a 'convert' Why and how did you come into the 'truth'? No, worries dear, you will kick your habit if you so desire (moderation) fastest way is by starting to date We all will happily dispel any beliefs in the GB as 'God's Channel' because it simply is a myth .... Huggles
 
losthobbit
losthobbit 4 years ago

Hi Weskerbouts
Your eyes are opening to reality... this is just the beginning. I was never a Jehovah's Witness, so what I say may not be as important as what other people will have to say, but I have two suggestions which I think are very important, based on my own experiences:
1. Study open mindedness... never stop learning by watching videos, and reading books.
Watch this video:



Read this book (Software for Your Brain - free download):
http://www.schoolofthinking.org/software.pdf
2. Regarding your addiction to porn... if you want to be free from your addiction, or just learn more about it, go to http://yourbrainonporn.com/ and watch the videos there. This is a non-religious, open minded / unbiased site, which doesn't actually have an opinion on whether porn is good or evil.
 
slimboyfat
slimboyfat 4 years ago

How did you manage to get disfellowshipped for that? Couldn't you just deny it?
Whatever you choose to do, I hope and trust you will not regret the day you found out the truth about the Watchtower organization. What you choose to do with that information is up to you, but at least you have been empowered to make an informed choice. But my opinion, for what it is worth, is that this wicked organization is not worthy of causing you such psychological distress.
Big thumbs up to JWfacts for providing the information.
 
LostGeneration
LostGeneration 4 years ago

The answer is to start from ground zero and read everything and anything that interests you. Test it all vigorously. Tell yourself you aren't going to believe anything for a period of time, you are just going to absorb it all without any preconceived judgements.
In the end, you will probably consider your DFing a blessing in disguise. They have set you free! DFing doesn't work anymore, because they cannot control information anymore. People like you can now can test their claims from the comfort of their living room.
Stories like this make me smile, less than a week away from a DFing announcement and a newly minted apostate starts to emerge. (aside from the pain you are suffering at this time, trust me, it passes quickly and I am sorry for anything you are going through right now).
 
Londo111
Londo111 4 years ago

Weskerbouts,
Welcome to JWN. I'm sorry to hear about your disfellowshipping. I myself confessed to the elders and was disfellowshipped. I realized that something was not right, that Christianity was not being practiced in the organization, and especially in regard to disfellowshipping. You still have value in the eyes of God and Christ, they have not disfellowshipped you.
My advice is to read Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom by Ray Franz. Also Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan. Read, read, read.
Whether to seek reinstatement or not is a personal decision, but as you know, you can't help your friends that are still in from the outside (most likely they won't talk to you). If you do get back, then you can work on carefully freeing them.
 
diamondiiz
diamondiiz 4 years ago

Hello,
SDA and WTS have same roots. Research and research some more. What you will discover will sadden you and probably make you angry but that's natural. I've been duped when I was young and naive, thinking that wts was the truth without knowing it's past and many hidden skeletons in its closet. 1975 was big but there are so many other dates that it's so sad that majority of witnesses don't have a clue about. Having no JW immediate family is a blessing, and getting DF probably is another one since it allowed you to look around more freely. Watchtower is hides what it is and you will do yourself a great benefit by researching what you've been taught, what wts use to teach and why they changed the teaching when they did. The amount of misinformation that their publication contain will make your jaw fall to the floor. WTS' entire past is out there in the open for everyone to see and that is why they discourage general witness population from looking outside of wts publications.
Once you start researching you will want more and more knowledge which surely will take you in direction of examining the validity of the bible itself, did noah's flood really take place, where Jews really in Egypt and cross the Red sea with Moses, did Joshua really destroy the Canaanite cities as claimed and where did the Jews originate from.
Take your time and search for knowledge as you get over the fear and guilt instilled in you by wts the publishing corporation.
 
jam
jam 4 years ago

Weaskerbouts: Here,s A suggestion. Set A goal, lets say
six months. Read all you can on the various topics about
JW,s here and I gaurantee you will be glad you were DF.
Then pursue your education. You will be as happy and free
as A turkey in A corn field. The DF was the best thing that
could ever happen to you.
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
TTWSYF
What's up with the HEBREWS translation?
by TTWSYF 4 months ago
blondie
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-22-2015 WT Study (God Loves us?)
by blondie 5 months ago
learnaway
The Original Sin - Emperor’s New Suit
by learnaway 17 days ago
Divergent
November 22 Study Article: God is a hypocrite & is NOT impartial!
by Divergent 5 months ago
Wonderment
John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2
by Wonderment 4 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/221295/help-been-disfellowshipped-6-days







Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Help: Been Disfellowshipped for 6 Days
/  





 

Help: Been Disfellowshipped for 6 Days
by weskerbouts 4 years ago 36 Replies latest 4 years ago   jw experiences
«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
 5
10
20
baltar447
baltar447 4 years ago

Recent guidelines for elders have and from platform indicate that if you are into "extreme" forms of porn then you CAN be DF'd. I'd find it very hard to believe that an elder body would DF for porn unless you were either into kiddie porn OR they don't like you and wanted you gone for some reason.
Extreme forms of porn according to recent ASSembly:
Bondage (this is "extreme" nowadays?)
Kiddie porn
Scat/snuff
 
ziddina
ziddina 4 years ago

Welcome, Weskerbouts...!!
I was gratified to read that your immediate family are NOT Jehovah's Witnesses. That means that you WON'T have to deal with the ugly effects of the Jehovah's Witnesses' requirement to SHUN DISFELLOWSHIPPED FAMILY MEMBERS...
I would suggest that you use the "search" function on this site and look up keywords regarding issues that concern you.
Zid - the board's She-Devil
 
ziddina
ziddina 4 years ago

Oh, about the porn...
Pornography is actually far, far older than the bible.
Many forms of worship of earth goddesses incorporated pornography - well, what the uptight worshippers of Middle-Eastern gods would call "pornography" - into their rites and symbols...
Some of the oldest representations of goddesses are over two hundred thousand years old - and are representations of the forms of well-rounded, naked women...
The bible, on the other hand, was only written within the last 3,500 years or so - and was written by Bronze-Age Middle-Eastern males...
Ask yourself, which is the OLDEST form of worship, between the two?
Zid
 
Black Sheep
Black Sheep 4 years ago

Welcome to the forum, weskerbouts.
Don't wait for miracles, just stop ignoring things that don't make sense. They don't make sense for a reason, the reason is usually that they simply don't make sense, not because you are stupid, or need someone who gets messages from invisible space creatures to guide you.
Forget religion for a while and go and get that education you have been putting off. While you are at it, grab some books from the library that teach critical thinking skills and unlearn the mental blocking techniques that the Watchtower taught you. This is an important step. Without good critical thinking skills you could end up joining the next cult that just happens to bump into you just after you have prayed for a miracle.

Cheers
Chris
 
NewChapter
NewChapter 4 years ago

Oh for goodness sakes. Look, I don't know that much about porn, and I know even less about porn addiction---but it sounds like you considered it a problem. So you reached out for help. And what did you get? Certainly not help. This should tell you everything you need to know about this cult. And as has been pointed out, JW's have deep roots with the Adventists----so why trade one for the other?
Look, like Slimboy said, unless this involves kiddie porn, or snuf (I don't know what scat is---like I said, don't know much) (which if so, get help immediately) this was really an overreaction and a group of assholes turning their back on you when you needed them most. Education---VERY good choice. It's good to have you here. You'll accumulate a lot of helpful information. JWfacts is excellent!
So while I don't know the specifics of your addiction, and I don't want to brush it off in case it is something violent, I am hesitant to say it's not as bad as it seems. However I can say this, it is never better to deal with things alone. Whatever it is, it's best to be able to talk about it. You will never get that with a bunch of window washers with a superior sense of their importance, because they have been told they are princes in the earth---and who have absolutely no relevant training. You've been given a huge gift. Take advantage of it. No one want's to have emotional issues treated by janitors. Find the help you need.
NC
 
leavingwt
leavingwt 4 years ago

Please read "Crisis of Conscience" by Ray Franz. (PDF available at www.commentarypress.com)

There is nothing to gain by speaking with the elders about any private matters.
 
applehippie
applehippie 4 years ago

First, let me say that I am not condemning you for your problem. I would advise you to get serious about adressing it. Why do I say that? Because my sister dealt with her husband for 28 years and his addiction to porn and then getting her to dress up and act it out for him. It damaged her emotionally, alcohol was the only way she could deal with it. He was an elder, and an elder's son. Both their sons are also addicted to porn. And I'm not talking about extreme types of porn. They just can't stop.
Porn separates you and desensitizes you and makes it difficult to connect to a significant other and see them as a real person. For that reason I would strongly encourage you to do something about it. The possibility of you ending up alone is very real. My sister divorced that man and is on the other side of the country. She is an acoholic, struggles with guilt and shame. She sought help and was told to be a better wife and then he would be a better husband. So she takes a lot of the blame on herself.
I'm sorry if this is not popular or what you would like to hear. I'm sorry you are going through a bad time. I wish my brother in law had gotten DF, I really do. But he will never get help because he has never really had to suffer the consequences of anything he's done.
After all that is said, welcome to the forum. I do think you can find a lot of support and good advice here. But the only one who can make things better for you is yourself. I wish you the best.
 
Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Billy the Ex-Bethelite 4 years ago

I'm not sure. I am waiting for a 'sign'.
How about this sign:
WELCOME!
And:
GO TO UNIVERSITY AND GET AN EDUCATION!
And:
Just because you'd rather look at pornography than read the latest Watchtower, it doesn't mean you're addicted to porn... IT MEANS YOU'RE NORMAL!
I hope these signs help... from a guy that's gotten out, is getting an education at university, and my interest in porn comes and goes
 
weskerbouts
weskerbouts 4 years ago

I will not discuss specifics of the level of deprivity of the things watched but I assure you it was not "scat" nor child pornography. There is new direction of the matter of pornography. This I am sure as it was previously unheard of, being disfellowshipped for such, until last year. (Probably something covered in Elder's School when they received their revised book for Congregation Elders.) I know a 2006 WT article discusses it--that disfellowshipping was possible disciplinary measure.
I came forward about it. I didn't want to continue this practice. I was a pioneer, on the RBC, an MS and had just about applied to BSSB in December but my conscience did not allow me to at that point. I do see it as harmful. I was asked 'how long?' I had viewed and 'how often'?. I think the fact that I had this problem before baptism, stopped before asking to be baptized, was okay for sometime afterward, but then again later and for the last 3-4 years... well, I imagine that was a major factor.
Other than that, I am considering, with a grain of salt, much of what the lot of you recommendeded. Many go back to the 'things of the past', but I did feel some teachings were right, though the hypocracy of the WTO lead me to [b]know[/b] that 'this' was not the way, but that Christ is the way, truth, and the life. I am still defining my beliefs, but I have just started. I have been reading and watching a lot of differing material. I do wish to pursue an education and move on--I have hope that I may.
A question that came up in my mind is say in the future I did decide to join, say, a non-denominational church... Would I have to write a letter of disassociation though I am already ''no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses''?
 
Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Billy the Ex-Bethelite 4 years ago

Would I have to write a letter of disassociation though I am already ''no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses''?
Nope. But it would make a nice addition to their file that you have decided to disfellowship them.
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
six days ago, on the 24th, the announcement was made.
the prior 3 weeks were an 'interesting' time after having come forward about my sin (problem).
(i have an addiction to pornography.



Related Topics
TTWSYF
What's up with the HEBREWS translation?
by TTWSYF 4 months ago
blondie
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-22-2015 WT Study (God Loves us?)
by blondie 5 months ago
learnaway
The Original Sin - Emperor’s New Suit
by learnaway 17 days ago
Divergent
November 22 Study Article: God is a hypocrite & is NOT impartial!
by Divergent 5 months ago
Wonderment
John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2
by Wonderment 4 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/221295/help-been-disfellowshipped-6-days?page=2&size=10






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Help: Been Disfellowshipped for 6 Days
/  





 

Help: Been Disfellowshipped for 6 Days
by weskerbouts 4 years ago 36 Replies latest 4 years ago   jw experiences
«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
 5
10
20
cofty
cofty 4 years ago


I am considering, with a grain of salt, much of what the lot of you recommendeded.
OK that's your perogative but there is a huge amount of combined experience here so don't dismiss the advice too quickly. Keep reading and questioning.

I do wish to pursue an education and move on--I have hope that I may.
I hope you achieve this goal. Make it your priority.
 
shepherd
shepherd 4 years ago

This is how i see it: You confessed because it was bothering you. You have an 'addiction' so of course you can't just stop doing it and of course you were hoping for help. Instead they disfellowshipped you.
John 13:35
" This is how everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another."
They will say disfellowshipping was an act of love. It was not. You were not caught, you confessed and sought help, and they 'killed' you spiritually (in the JW opinion) for it instead.
I would say one thing, if you think of porn as normal your addiction will probably weaken. One reason you are 'hooked' is probably because you think it is wrong, so wrong the more you try not to think about it, the more you are actually focussing your mind towards it. Once you rebalance your views you will crave it less.
And whatever elder was the most aggressive at your JC, is most probably fighting the same urges in secret :smile:
 
aquagirl
aquagirl 4 years ago

"You will be as happy and freeas A turkey in A corn field." I LOVE that image!!!!You are going thru the toughest part now,Lean,ok?On anyone,friends,someof us here in the forum{including me} and ask and talk.Its what will help you,as it has helped many others.It is delightful to hear that you want an education!Perfect! Eh,dont be so hard on yourself,anyone with any real mental reasoning powers eventually ends up getin gthe old 'heave ho' from the dubs.They want dummies.Followers.Folks who quetion nothing,like Jim Jones's vrew,You got out!Wah hoo!!!!You will start to appreciate your decision,Right now tho,you hav eto remove any doubts by talikng to some of us who have been thru it,{yeah it sux],but we are ll here,because we care and want to help.And some of us HAD help from others.Lean,baby,lean,k?Be strong,and Welcome to out group,lucky you!Oh,and watch out for the monkey,he is a little,um,grabby....lol
 
jam
jam 4 years ago

When I was A elder and young MS came to me, A problem
with masturbation. Fortunately for him I was on my way out.
The young man was in his late 20,s and single. I told him to pray on it
and get married. But he felt it was A big problem causing severe
depression. Guess what, he got married and the problem or the
problem he thought he had went away.
 
mind blown
mind blown 4 years ago

Ok.....here it goes...... I work in the industry so I hope I can help....

Ok.....here it goes...... I work in the industry so I hope I can help....
Before you start questioning your faith, you need to deal with your issue. If you don't you will carry it were ever you go. This is fact.

From what I gather it's more then a simple case of sexual frustration (you mentioned "how many times" and "scat", leads me to believe it's a heavy type of fetish/obsession).
If "anything" becomes an obsession there's an issue, even in the world.
I suggest you speak with a therapist, counsler or go to a program. Again, if it's not a simple case of sexual frustration, it will rule you and will overlap and or interfear with real life intimate relationships when you do have them. A professional can tell you what's normal or not. They deal with all types of situational experience...no worries....


 
jamiebowers
jamiebowers 4 years ago

Before you go jumping into another religion, please take some time to get to know yourself. First of all, consider your age, marital status, and type of pornography that you think you're addicted to. You may want to work this out with a therapist. Then consider what type of profession you would like to pursue. If it's not a trade, then get yourself enrolled in college. The reccommended reading list of books by Ray Franz and Steve Hassan is a good one to start. Most of all, just take your time to make good decisions. Now is NOT the time to panic.
The kind of porn you view and whether or not you're addicted to it is ot my business. But if you're like many other young men who have posted here, just watching human beings having vanilla sex drove them mad with guilt. The same goes for masturbation. The Watchtower turns young people against their own bodies. It is normal for people to express their sexuality. If one doesn't do so, then a substitute will always be found. Do some research on masturbation and the type of porn you prefer. Find out if science say it is perverted or unnatural, (ie with animals,children, rape, etc).
 
Azazel
Azazel 4 years ago

hi there weskerbouts im really glad for you that you have made it to this forum. Please dont rush into anything religious. I almost got sucked into the Mormons after being DF but thru luck didnt go.
If you have a religious need i sugest get a good reference bible ( "The Interlinear Bible" etc or free like E-Sword online) and start reading the NT and i promise freind without interjecting WTS doctrine you will be amazed and come to know that we have overlooked Jesus as JW.
listen to the good advice you will hear on the forum and im sure you will do well.
 Azazael
 
mind blown
mind blown 4 years ago

came back to ps.....JamieB has some great advice.
If you decide to stay in or out......suggestion still applies.....you need to change things up for yourself.....you cannot survive on scripture alone.....balance..
 
mind blown
mind blown 4 years ago

opps.....
....suggestion still applies re occupation and or college.....
 
Juan Viejo2
Juan Viejo2 4 years ago

I totally agree with everyone that suggests that you give yourself a breather from religion. Just give that part of your life a rest and use the time to expand your interests.
As to your addiction? A sociologist that I knew told me that 85% of all men admit that they masturbate whether they have porn available or not. Then he told me that the other 15% are lying. Unless you are dysfunctional or a castrato, if you are under 70 years old you'll probably look at porn or conjure up visions in your head. It's wired into your brain. If you are busy doing other things, then you can control your urges and reduce your need for visual stimulation.
The HBO TV series "Rome" had sets that showed porn drawn on the walls of buildings all over the city. Most graffiti was porn. Art and statues of gods, goddesses and even heroes were typically naked or show in suggestive poses. When they dug up Pompei a few years ago they discovered pornographic images all over the wall of the public bathhouses and wealthy homes. It was just part of their culture.
The Witness leaders have this mindset that is similar to that of my grandmother's. She and my grandfather were married for nearly 70 years, but she always dressed in a closet out of his view and always wore a beddress when they slept. She proudly announced on several occasions that Granddad had never seen her naked. Of course, she was my grandmother, and the idea of seeing her naked is a stomach-turner for me. But she just felt it was sinful to be naked in front of a man.
My guess is that there are quite a few serial porn viewers even among the Governing Body - it's so easy to get.
So if you really are confused and feel that your particular taste in porn is damaging to your mental health or that it may lead you to commit criminal acts, then go get some professional help from a medically degreed professional - not from a religious charlatan or a preacher that is a so-called expert.
JV
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
six days ago, on the 24th, the announcement was made.
the prior 3 weeks were an 'interesting' time after having come forward about my sin (problem).
(i have an addiction to pornography.



Related Topics
TTWSYF
What's up with the HEBREWS translation?
by TTWSYF 4 months ago
blondie
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-22-2015 WT Study (God Loves us?)
by blondie 5 months ago
learnaway
The Original Sin - Emperor’s New Suit
by learnaway 17 days ago
Divergent
November 22 Study Article: God is a hypocrite & is NOT impartial!
by Divergent 5 months ago
Wonderment
John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2
by Wonderment 4 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/221295/help-been-disfellowshipped-6-days?page=3&size=10






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Help: Been Disfellowshipped for 6 Days
/  





 

Help: Been Disfellowshipped for 6 Days
by weskerbouts 4 years ago 36 Replies latest 4 years ago   jw experiences
«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
5
10
20
Fernando
Fernando 4 years ago

Welcome weskerbouts!
Sorry to hear about the way this was handled. Many here have gone through this "freaking out" stage to a more calm and rational place. Actually though I think you are handling matters more calmly and rationally at this trying point than many of us may have at the time.
You have your miracle - a major (albeit painful) event that is setting you free from religion/ists!
And its great that the bad experience has not turned you away from God, faith, spirituality or the gospel ("good news")!
The fact is you have been disfellowshipped because you have a conscience, and they are ignorant and blind to how they should have responded and helped. This is no way to treat someone who is addicted and wants help! But it is a great way to open your eyes to some unpleasant truths and realities about religion/ists.
In time you may be delighted to discover that "the truth" is a person (John 14:6) who absolutely delights in helping us out with our addictions! He is observing closely your journey out of religion and would be delighted should you choose him over religion.
I was addicted to religion (the Watchtower's version) and it's definitely worse than pornography, since one is actively worshipping the "god of religion" and snubbing the "God of Abraham". How on earth can one beat any addiction like that?
I would highly recommend seeing a good Psychologist and coming to grips with CBT (Cognitive Behaviour Therapy). This is part of the secret to unravelling addiction (of any description). Our (addictive or aberrant) behaviour is underpinned by (addictive or aberrant) emotions and feelings, which are underpinned by (addictive or aberrant) thinking, which is underpinned by (addictive or aberrant) beliefs, which in turn is underpinned by a low SQ (Spiritual Quotient). Religion is not the answer! It is often the problem! Just read Matthew 23!
(CBT stops at beliefs and does not yet consider spirituality).
Oh and by the way religion is really anti-sex, whereas Jesus is pro-sex and anti-religion!
Fear, shame, guilt and embarrassment are not of God, they are from the enemy. Jesus loves setting us free from these demonic strongholds employed by religionists, so that we can journey with him whilst we are transformed from within, something supremacist window dressing religion can never accomplish.
Ray Franz' books are a MUST read! They are rather big and represent a journey in itself! He was the real deal mind you! For a summary of his book "In search of Christian freedom" you may want to read the Awake article condemning "legalism" and promoting its opposite. This brilliant article was most likely written by Ray (g79 6/8 pp. 27-28).
Since we humans may give conflicting or erroneous advice it is always best to go to the source - God himself - and on his generous terms namely those outlined in the generous, full and unabridged gospel message (the real "good news") as partly and powerfully described in Romans 3 and 4 where a right standing with God is IMPUTED to believers as an UNMERITED free gift, despite us still being sinners and making mistakes!!!
 
weskerbouts
weskerbouts 4 years ago

Guys, I don't know what to make of my life. I feel like I don't even know who I am. There are moments when I just feel like going back but I can't... not with knowing what I know now especially. Yesterday for the first time I went into a church. I tried to listen mostly and I even participated in discussions. I was there from 12:30pm to 6:45pm.
I was very surprised at the level of kindness and interest shown to me, esp. by the teenagers (teens are usually to themselves and very opinionated, judgmental)--some who later confessed to me things about themselves and then would remark, "I have no idea why I told you that, but I feel like I've known you for a long time!" Others told me I 'fit in so well with everyone'. The elderly women of that church even held my hands when they talked to me (I was told later that those particular women usually aren't that expressive or welcoming) and there seemed to be something of an overall buzz in the church. Only the Pastor was a little aloof, watching me. We spoke at times but he seemed to be more interested in observing me first. I honestly felt sick to my stomach on my way in. Plagued with this feeling like I was going to be struck with leprosy for stepping foot in there, but it was also kind of freeing.
I'm not sure what to do really, but I think I should take a break from religion at least for a while. Maybe I should look to start schooling soon. I don't know what though. I want it to be something involving helping people. Maybe a go for a BA in theology or even a medical doctor. When I knew I was going to be disfellowshipped it was something I constantly thought about and even mentioned to some of the congregational elders. Of course, you can guess what relatively were their replies. Since the announcement I have not been to a meeting, didn't even go today. Though I thought yesterday 'after having gone to a church, I might as well go to the Hall'. I guess that stemmed from a feeling of guilt but I realize that's probably indoctrintaion taking over, an emotional response.
I even told my younger brother who is not a JW just about ten minutes ago I went to a church yesterday, and he told me, "Rob, if you're not a Witness, even I don't know who you are. I don't know what to think..." It's been who I was for the past 7-8 years of my life and since we were small we were exposed to the teachings. I had wanted to be a Circuit Overseer. I put off marriage, school, and well, I gave most of all I could...
I'm very depressed... I don't show it maybe, but I can say it. I'm frustrated but I have no one to blame I feel. I blame the Devil, but he isn't infront of me to curse.
In time like this, what have some of you done?
 
Band on the Run
Band on the Run 4 years ago

Will someone please tell me what SDA is?
 
3dogs1husband
3dogs1husband 4 years ago

seventh day adventist @ band on the run
 
Hoffnung
Hoffnung 4 years ago

Hi Weskerbout,
Welcome, and sorry to read about your sorrow.
What you can do:
- Realize you just connected to a new set of friends. Keep on posting here how you feel and what you think. Some of us were once where you also are now. Many can relate to your feelings.
- Realize also that you mistook your elders for shepherds. You asked them for help, and they kicked you out in a cold dark world, sure you would be alone out there. They are no sheperds, they are powerfreaks, who got high on the ecstasy of ruining your personal life. (once you realize this, it easy enough to find out how you get reinstated, while hiding your true feelings for those hypocrites). I find it quite shocking they form a JC and disfellowship for viewing P, because many elders have problems with that themselves. I would imagine the could handle that without a JC. You were so honest to come for it, can't them bastards see that? Are you sure none of them had a kind of envy against you, and saw this as an excellent occasion to get rid of you? If you feel better in another church, why not. just do not replace one high-control religion with another one.
- Get enrolled in social activities, sports and alike, do not stay on your own. read the many experiences of others on this board, you will find indications for your way out. Now you took the big step to go search on the internet, do a lot of research.
- Do NOT write any letters in the next few months to the congregation. Please be aware you are emotionally unstable at the moment (absolutely normal), and you will regret any big decisions you take. If you want to be reinstated, you will have to play the most humble person in the universe for at least a year, going to most of the meetings with a colored study watchtower, being ignored by all.
- Enjoy your freedom, with moderation. Don't do shocking things, but go to concerts, theather, find a hobby, music instrument, drawing, etc...
Hang in there. You will make it.
Hoffnung
 
OnTheWayOut
OnTheWayOut 4 years ago

Let me discuss your opening post without reading further down the line to others and their excellent posts.
...having come forward about my sin (problem).
I am glad you put "problem" in afterward. To be clear, you need to stop letting some cult (or any religion) define the things you do as "sins." I can agree that most illegal things that WTS would define as "sins" are immoral- murder, rape, assault, etc. Otherwise, it is a shame that they are given this power over people.
You came forward, wishing help. They don't understand addictions. They just know you are a repeat violator of their rules. If you believe it's a problem, I hope you get some help, but don't feel you must lower your self-respect for doing what comes naturally to many people.

My immediate family with who I live with are not JWs.
I so hope that someone has helped you to think about just walking away. You will lose your JW friends no matter what and it sounds like you don't have really anything else to lose. Finish learning about WTS and the JW's and don't feel any pressure to hurry up.
I think, maybe, my father who did not raise me and who came later in my life as an SDA was brought here for a reason, but again, I'm not sure. I am waiting for a 'sign'.
No matter what I say, believers will skewer me for trying to make a statement from my current non-belief position. Please be careful what you view as "a sign." JW's come to doors because they are out there so much- but it appears to some as a sign. Some people are bound to be asking for a sign when JW's come by. Same with SDA relatives. There are coincidences out there. Do not be in a hurry to just jump right into something else. Slow down and remember to relax about life changes.
Good luck, whatever the case.
 
harleybear
harleybear 4 years ago

Dear help: been DF for 6 days.

First and formost understand that the body of elders and not trained, professional therapists. They are in no way qualified to counsel, guide, or mentor on mattesr of addition. Although I was raised JW and was "active" until my mid 20"s then became "inactive"I thought it was a good idea to "get back in" in my late 40"s. During my "out time" I married my husband, a globe head (that is a worldly person ) who by the was is the best thing that ever happen to me. Only one problem, I had developed a big drinking habit in recent years. Knowing I needed to stop I thought going back would help. Imagine my surprize when my husband were invited to a dinner party at an elders house with several other JW's who all got sloshed to the gills. It was a few weeks later after confiding in another elder about my concerns about my drinking the word got out (as it always does) and the same elder who held the party corned me in the KH and informed me that I would be looking at judicial disipline. For some strange reason I quessed he was doing a little CYA. I said bring it on, but informed him that I was going to be brutally honest about his little dinner party including the several incidents of "brothers" hitting on me. Now understand I was the one with the "problem" but did not drink that night because of my desire to stop drinking and respect his home. When I shared this with my husband he went postal and since then has made it eminently clear to all JW's who visit our home or attempt to shepard that he will not have any of it. Works for me !!!!!!!! by the way I have been sober for sometime with the help of support from friends and loved one , all none being JW's, and knowing God will grant me the serenity of accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. You hang in there and if the matter of porn is a concern to you, seek real help. Harleybear and...ridin free
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
six days ago, on the 24th, the announcement was made.
the prior 3 weeks were an 'interesting' time after having come forward about my sin (problem).
(i have an addiction to pornography.



Related Topics
TTWSYF
What's up with the HEBREWS translation?
by TTWSYF 4 months ago
blondie
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-22-2015 WT Study (God Loves us?)
by blondie 5 months ago
learnaway
The Original Sin - Emperor’s New Suit
by learnaway 17 days ago
Divergent
November 22 Study Article: God is a hypocrite & is NOT impartial!
by Divergent 5 months ago
Wonderment
John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2
by Wonderment 4 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/221295/help-been-disfellowshipped-6-days?page=4&size=10





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Angus Jones becomes a Seventh Day Adventist
/  





 

Angus Jones becomes a Seventh Day Adventist
by barry 3 years ago 26 Replies latest 3 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 3
 »
 5
10
20
barry
barry 3 years ago

Angus Jones has been baptised a SDA in a end times conspiracy theory SDA church and is telling people not to watch Two and a half men because its filth.
 
barry
barry 3 years ago

Link is spectrummagazine.org
 
cantleave
cantleave 3 years ago

I was just going post something about this....Although it is from the Daily Mail (Cofty is really going to think I am an avid reader :frowning: )
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2238825/Angus-T-Jones-brands-Two-Half-Men-filth-extraordinary-outburst-religious-video.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
 
trillaz
trillaz 3 years ago

This is proof that Jehovah... oh wait
 
finally awake
finally awake 3 years ago

I saw that - he sounds completely loony.
 
jwfacts
jwfacts 3 years ago

Hi Barry, interesting link. Sounds very much like a zealous new JW convert.
 
wha happened?
wha happened? 3 years ago

and yet he hasn't quit the show
 
Theocratic Sedition
Theocratic Sedition 3 years ago

He adds: 'If I am doing any harm, I don't want to be here. I don't want to be contributing to the enemy's plan.
'You cannot be a true God-fearing person and be on a television show like that. I know I can't.
'I'm not OK with what I'm learning, what the bible says and being on that television show.'
Jones gives his testimony sitting with a representative of The Forerunner Chronicles in his trailer on the Warner studio lot, where his series is filmed.

I respect that and can relate. It's difficult at times to justify certain entertainment that I like, all the while trying to do the Christian thing. On my way to the Kingdom Hall listening to Jadakiss, and then comment during the Bible Highlights about Jehovah's or Jesus' disapproval of immorality or violence, etc..

This part sounds like a typical confused kid trying to make sense of things. He what, 19? If only he knew how much confusion and soul searching he'll be doing for the 50 years. It never ends does it?
'I really started to get into reading the bible and I started to look for a church to go to. Every Sunday I was going to like three or four churches, I was just looking for the right church,' he said.
And he added: 'I was looking to go to a church with an all-black congregation,' explaining that he had imagined himself as a member of a gospel church.
'The first day I went there I went by myself and I walked in and sat down at the back... It was just like, that was my church.
'Then I started the bible work at the church. And I was like this is really awesome, it seems so much more appropriate and it was right from the bible.
'I just kept learning the basic messages of the Seventh-day Adventist Church and every single time I was learning all this new stuff and I was just loving it.'
Jones also explained that he had begun observing the Sabbath
 
Theocratic Sedition
Theocratic Sedition 3 years ago

and yet he hasn't quit the show

The 19-year-old - who makes $350,000 per episode playing Jake - is featured in a new video for the Forerunner Chronicles

I probably wouldn't quit either.
 
wha happened?
wha happened? 3 years ago

which makes him look like a bigger dork. Yea I whole heartedly disagree with the show and all it stands for. Don't watch it. Where's my ck?
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
Cold Steel
Jehovah or Jesus: Who Is To Come?
by Cold Steel 2 months ago
new boy
Chapter 2 of the Novel "New Boy"
by new boy 9 days ago
HB
When is a theory 'just a theory'?
by HB 2 months ago
OrphanCrow
"The Calendar of Jehovah God" - a historical tidbit
by OrphanCrow 5 months ago
Simon Templar
Too Much Discontent in the Congregation Part 3
by Simon Templar 5 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/242818/angus-jones-becomes-seventh-day-adventist




Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Angus Jones becomes a Seventh Day Adventist
/  





 

Angus Jones becomes a Seventh Day Adventist
by barry 3 years ago 26 Replies latest 3 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 3
 »
 5
10
20
barry
barry 3 years ago

My concern is that Angus has connected to the loony side of Adventism conspiracy theory end times and is learning the SDA santuary message.
None of the theologans in the church can agree with the santuary message for you people that aren't familliar with this theology it entails 1844 , 2300 days changed to years and it is a dotrine which perverts th echristian gospel. This doctrine is in disrepute even amoungst Adventists .
 
wha happened?
wha happened? 3 years ago

well it wouldn't be the 1st time an actor or musician ends up on the loony side of religion
 
undercover
undercover 3 years ago

Maybe him and Charlie were sharing needles and spoons
 
extractor
extractor 3 years ago

I heard this today & thought, "Yes, filth. That show is garbage from top to bottom. Good for him!" Then found out it's SDA & thought, "Oh crap... he joined just another stupid cult."
He says his family tried to tell him he's in a cult.
 
garyneal
garyneal 3 years ago

I remember being like this kid when I was in my early 20's and newly attending an IFB church. Very zealous. I guess we will see how he turns out in 20 years or so.
 
garyneal
garyneal 3 years ago

He says his family tried to tell him he's in a cult.
Bad move on the part of his family.
 
LisaRose
LisaRose 3 years ago

My grandson is baptized SDA. He even wants to go to a SDA college to study divinity and hopes to be a minister. He does have some problems with SDA doctrine, so his long term goal is to have his own non denominational church some day. I haven't seen any evidence of it hurting him any, he seems quite happy and normal. He has gone to SDA school his whole life. At least they have activities for the young ones, unlike the JWs. He has even gone to Mexico to build a church.
 
blondie
blondie 3 years ago

An apology?
http://www.tvguide.com/News/Angus-Jones-Apologizes-1056928.aspx?rss=breakingnews
Angus T. Jones Apologizes for Blasting Two and a Half Men
 Nov 27, 2012 09:04 PM ET
by Kate Stanhope
Follow katestanhope
◦Tweet
◦
◦
 Angus T Jones
One day after calling Two and a Half Men"filth" and urging viewers not to watch, Angus T. Jones issued lengthy apology to the show's creator, producers, cast and crew.
In the statement, obtained by Deadline, Jones doesn't retract his comments about the quality of the show, but apologizes if his comments conveyed "indifference" and/or "disrespect" against those involved with the show. "I grew up around them and know that the time they spent with me was in many instances more than with their own families," he said. "I learned life lessons from so many of them and will never forget how much positive impact they have had on my life."

Angus T. Jones calls Two and a Half Men "Filth," urges viewers to stop watching
Jones also said he regretted that his comments depicted a "lack of appreciation" for the "extraordinary opportunity" of Two and a Half Men. He also thanked creator Chuck Lorre, Warner Bros. head Peter Roth and all of Warner Bros. and CBS.
CBS and Warner Bros. have not issued a statement on Jones' comments, which went public in a YouTube video posted on Monday as part of a taped testimonial for the religious organization Forerunner Chronicles. "If you watch Two and a Half Men, please stop watching Two and a Half Men," Jones says in the clip. "I'm on Two and a Half Men and I don't want to be on it. Please stop watching it. Please stop filling your head with filth."
See other child stars gone bad
Read Jones' full statement below:
I have been the subject of much discussion, speculation and commentary over the past 24 hours. While I cannot address everything that has been said or right every misstatement or misunderstanding, there is one thing I want to make clear. Without qualification, I am grateful to and have the highest regard and respect for all of the wonderful people on Two and Half Men with whom I have worked over the past ten years and who have become an extension of my family.
Chuck Lorre, Peter Roth and many others at Warner Bros. and CBS are responsible for what has been one of the most significant experiences in my life to date. I thank them for the opportunity they have given and continue to give me and the help and guidance I have and expect to continue to receive from them. I also want all of the crew and cast on our show to know how much I personally care for them and appreciate their support, guidance and love over the years. I grew up around them and know that the time they spent with me was in many instances more than with their own families. I learned life lessons from so many of them and will never forget how much positive impact they have had on my life.
I apologize if my remarks reflect me showing indifference to and disrespect of my colleagues and a lack of appreciation of the extraordinary opportunity of which I have been blessed. I never intended that.
What do you think of Jones' apology?
 
mrsjones5
mrsjones5 3 years ago

Sounds like he got called in the carpet and was given a good dressing down.
 
ÁrbolesdeArabia
ÁrbolesdeArabia 3 years ago

We need to allow him to pursue his own conscience, who knows what this kid saw dealing with Sheen and Hollywood. Danny Bonnadecuci has said over and over "If you want to screw your kid up for life, force him to be a child actor!" other child actors echo his words too. Why are we no longer shocked when we hear the issues these kids turning adults are battling "drug abuse, depression, ect...."
If the SDA can prevent him from becoming the next Lindsay Lohan or Whitney Houston, Heath Ledger, what can't we wish the best for him? He's a kid for God's sake, give him a break!
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
angus jones has been baptised a sda in a end times conspiracy theory sda church and is telling people not to watch two and a half men because its filth..



Related Topics
Cold Steel
Jehovah or Jesus: Who Is To Come?
by Cold Steel 2 months ago
new boy
Chapter 2 of the Novel "New Boy"
by new boy 9 days ago
HB
When is a theory 'just a theory'?
by HB 2 months ago
OrphanCrow
"The Calendar of Jehovah God" - a historical tidbit
by OrphanCrow 5 months ago
Simon Templar
Too Much Discontent in the Congregation Part 3
by Simon Templar 5 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/242818/angus-jones-becomes-seventh-day-adventist?page=2&size=10





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Angus Jones becomes a Seventh Day Adventist
/  





 

Angus Jones becomes a Seventh Day Adventist
by barry 3 years ago 26 Replies latest 3 years ago   jw friends
«
 1
 2
 3
 »
5
10
20
kurtbethel
kurtbethel 3 years ago

Show is tanking. This is a desperate publicity stunt to get it back on the radar and attract more viewers. It was a good run, but the shark has been jumped and the well is dry.
Two and a Half Men Angus Jones
 
barry
barry 3 years ago

According to Spectrum magazine Angus Jones has apologised for his rant about 2 and a half men and has said the people on the set are like his own family. Spectrum Magazine is an independant Adventist magazine funded by any interested persons in the church and covers the full spectrum of Adventist thought from conservative to liberal. Barry
 
Broken Promises
Broken Promises 3 years ago

If the SDA can prevent him from becoming the next Lindsay Lohan or Whitney Houston, Heath Ledger, what can't we wish the best for him? He's a kid for God's sake, give him a break
I actually agree. He's young, he'll probably find another religion to join in 12 months' time.
 
Satanus
Satanus 3 years ago

Sda has a lot of dietary rules and so forth. Might teach him some structure, even if he doesn't stay w it.
S
 
Eustace
Eustace 3 years ago


Angus Jones has been baptised a SDA in a end times conspiracy theory SDA church and is telling people not to watch Two and a half men because its filth.
It's sad that it sometimes takes religion to see the obvious.
 
Eustace
Eustace 3 years ago


If the SDA can prevent him from becoming the next Lindsay Lohan or Whitney Houston, Heath Ledger, what can't we wish the best for him?
I wish him the best.
The SDA has too much of an old timey feel for my taste, but still it sure beats the pit of drugs and despair that Hollywood has become.
 
peacefulpete
peacefulpete 3 years ago

Plenty of Humanists and Atheists find the show to be low brow garbage that glamorizes self destructive and socially irresposible behavior.
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
angus jones has been baptised a sda in a end times conspiracy theory sda church and is telling people not to watch two and a half men because its filth..



Related Topics
Cold Steel
Jehovah or Jesus: Who Is To Come?
by Cold Steel 2 months ago
new boy
Chapter 2 of the Novel "New Boy"
by new boy 9 days ago
HB
When is a theory 'just a theory'?
by HB 2 months ago
OrphanCrow
"The Calendar of Jehovah God" - a historical tidbit
by OrphanCrow 5 months ago
Simon Templar
Too Much Discontent in the Congregation Part 3
by Simon Templar 5 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/242818/angus-jones-becomes-seventh-day-adventist?page=3&size=10




Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Questions by JWs in 1976
/  





 

Questions by JWs in 1976
by Doug Mason 8 years ago 33 Replies latest 3 years ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
 5
10
20
Doug Mason
Doug Mason 8 years ago

In 1976, my friend Bruce Price was in contact with Jehovah’s Witnesses who had become disillusioned through the debacle with 1975. Bruce was the leading voice among the SDA ministry in working for JWs. At the time, I was a member of the SDA Church. Although I left them about 25 years ago, to this day Bruce and I enjoy a strong and genuinely warm friendship.
So, in 1976 Bruce invited me to a meeting with one of the JWs who was leading the disquiet in his congregation in Dandenong (Victoria, Australia). Our JW contact was ultimately involved in helping 200 Witnesses leave the Dandenong congregation.
This JW – and I will never divulge his name – provided us with documents and newspaper clippings related to the great disquiet. I have scanned one of the documents this JW provided to us. It is available at:http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=ad617687741620437355bf7421af28eb
I do not know who wrote the material. I only know that it was a JW who provided it to us. The contents confirm the date it was written. The citation on page 13 is to the 1961 booklet “Blood, Medicine and the Law of God”, and the WTS released its next “Blood” booklet in 1977.
If I locate them, I will scan the subsequent documents that the JW provided to us. Hopefully I will soon scan the newspaper articles.
Doug
 
fresia
fresia 8 years ago

will download file later...but I do remember about Dandenong as I was living in Melbourne at the time, in fact baptised the same year and the talk was about an apostacy congregation in the Dandenongs
Actually my book study elder left the org only a few months after before my baptism and went to America to live.
 
DannyHaszard
DannyHaszard 8 years ago

Bump
 
BONEZZ
BONEZZ 8 years ago

A great document! Well worth downloading and saving.
-BONEZZ
 
JK666
JK666 8 years ago

Thanks, I downloaded it for later reading.
JK
 
dust
dust 8 years ago

bttt
 
brinjen
brinjen 8 years ago

bttt, good job!
 
BabaYaga
BabaYaga 8 years ago

I had never heard of that mass exodus... thank you so much for making this available.
Cheers,
Baba
 
BizzyBee
BizzyBee 8 years ago

Thank you for this fascinating read.
Apparently this 'campaign' was successful - it would be very interesting to know more about how it was executed, such as
◦who rec'd the letter and how was it determined who should receive it?
◦what kind of responses did they receive at the PO Box locations?
◦what was the backlash from the WTS?
It would be great to try this again - we've got 30 years more of failure, deception and oppression since 1976. And - we've got the internet!
 
Doug Mason
Doug Mason 8 years ago

Do not underestimate the significance of the present day in the history of the WTS. The power, spread and intrusiveness of the www is playing havoc. It is proving as great a watershed as 1975 did, probably even more, because it is becoming impossible for the WTS to hide the facts under the carpet. The growth of their membership has shrunk in those parts of the world where the www has influence.
In the seclusion of their own home, JWs can conduct their personal investigations. More than this, the www acts as a spiritual counselor, where the JW can communicate with others who have identical concerns. No longer need the JW ask, rhetorically, “to whom else can we go?” Now they can know. They are told that there is real life after the WTS.
Consider the 20 pages of questions that those concerned Witnesses wrote 30 years ago. Within 24 hours of it becoming available on this site, 89 people had downloaded it. Who knows where they are located in the world, whether they are JWs, and to how many people they will circulate that document.
I hope that some will notice that questions posed 30 years ago are the same questions JWs are asking today. This should tell them that the organization will never listen to their questions.
Doug
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
blondie
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-22-2015 WT Study (God Loves us?)
by blondie 5 months ago
TTWSYF
What's up with the HEBREWS translation?
by TTWSYF 4 months ago
Wonderment
John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2
by Wonderment 4 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo 2 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Another Trey Bundy Article on Reveal: "Jehovah’s Witnesses leaders say they don’t protect sexual abusers"
by AndersonsInfo 4 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/143886/questions-jws-1976




Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Questions by JWs in 1976
/  





 

Questions by JWs in 1976
by Doug Mason 8 years ago 33 Replies latest 3 years ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
 5
10
20
jacethespace
jacethespace 8 years ago

thanks for that download, its a very intresting read.Does anyone know if the society outright announced that 1975 would be the end because looking at the watchtower program most just sugest it could happen.Although a watchtower from 15 october 1966 titled-rejocing over gods sons of liberty says under the heading -thrilling discourses :it did not take the brothers long to find the chart on page 31 showing 6000 years mans experience end in 1975.Discussion of 1975 overshadowed everything else.The new book compels us to realize that armaggedon is very close indeed ,said a conventioner.Surely it was one of the outstanding blessings to be carried home. Blessings: seems like the watchtowers blessings turned into a curse when everyone left in droves.
 
BizzyBee
BizzyBee 8 years ago

I hope that some will notice that questions posed 30 years ago are the same questions JWs are asking today. This should tell them that the organization will never listen to their questions.
Yes, it struck me, too, that many questions are the same ones we would ask today. The wheels at Brooklyn grind at the speed of a melting glacier............and their responsiveness is zilch..
 
Listener
Listener 3 years ago

Does anyone have any further information? The link no longer works.
 
NeverKnew
NeverKnew 3 years ago

PM me your e-mail address. I'll mail you the pdf of this letter tomorrow morning!
 
smiddy
smiddy 3 years ago

How do I receive this info ? the link doesn`t seem to work
smiddy
 
goddidit
goddidit 3 years ago

Could someone post a new link please?
 
Pickler
Pickler 3 years ago

I want this link too!
 
wannaexit
wannaexit 3 years ago

How did I miss this five years ago. Yes please --the link
 
TJ Curioso
TJ Curioso 3 years ago

I want the link toooo…
Please, send me to: tj_curioso@hotmail.com
 
Roberta804
Roberta804 3 years ago

Link does not work. Opps the Borg is watching!
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
in 1976, my friend bruce price was in contact with jehovahs witnesses who had become disillusioned through the debacle with 1975. bruce was the leading voice among the sda ministry in working for jws.
at the time, i was a member of the sda church.
although i left them about 25 years ago, to this day bruce and i enjoy a strong and genuinely warm friendship.. so, in 1976 bruce invited me to a meeting with one of the jws who was leading the disquiet in his congregation in dandenong (victoria, australia).



Related Topics
blondie
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-22-2015 WT Study (God Loves us?)
by blondie 5 months ago
TTWSYF
What's up with the HEBREWS translation?
by TTWSYF 4 months ago
Wonderment
John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2
by Wonderment 4 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo 2 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Another Trey Bundy Article on Reveal: "Jehovah’s Witnesses leaders say they don’t protect sexual abusers"
by AndersonsInfo 4 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/143886/questions-jws-1976?page=2&size=10




Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Questions by JWs in 1976
/  





 

Questions by JWs in 1976
by Doug Mason 8 years ago 33 Replies latest 3 years ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
 5
10
20
Terry
Terry 3 years ago

I'll tell you by using a vivid analogy.
Have you had dinner with your whole family and the oldest person there farts accidentally?
EVERYBODY smells it--but--NOBODY says a word.
Later....out of earshot.....little groups whisper to each other about it.

That's is 99% of what the reaction was. The Governing Body farted, the whole world smelled it and an embarassing silence...whispering....followed.
 
sosoconfused
sosoconfused 3 years ago

can someone pleeeeease allow me to have a copy
 
smiddy
smiddy 3 years ago

Anybody ? please ?
smiddy
 
Aussie Oz
Aussie Oz 3 years ago

PLEASE!
somehow!
Curiosity is raised and we needs a feedin'
Oz
 
Steve_C
Steve_C 3 years ago

This has piqued my curiosity as well.
 
irondork
irondork 3 years ago

Also curious.
 
Splash
Splash 3 years ago

This related thread might still have some active links in it
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/143956/1/Newspaper-articles-on-JWs-devastated-by-the-1975-disappointment

It's here
http://www.jwstudies.com/jehovah_s_witnesses.html
Look down the right column until you see the 1975 section. Then you can d/l the pdf.
Splash
 
NeverKnew
NeverKnew 3 years ago

I have a 20 page letter written to the Watchtower in 1976. It's 20 pages long so obviously it wouldn't make sense for me to post the images.
If anyone would like to add it to a server and create a link, I'd be happy to e-mail the letter to them... or if you'd like a copy PM me your e-mail and I'll get it to you after work tonight.
I think those who haven't seen it would really appreciate it.
 
Splash
Splash 3 years ago

Bump for those who were looking for the documents.
 
steve2
steve2 3 years ago

BTT
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
in 1976, my friend bruce price was in contact with jehovahs witnesses who had become disillusioned through the debacle with 1975. bruce was the leading voice among the sda ministry in working for jws.
at the time, i was a member of the sda church.
although i left them about 25 years ago, to this day bruce and i enjoy a strong and genuinely warm friendship.. so, in 1976 bruce invited me to a meeting with one of the jws who was leading the disquiet in his congregation in dandenong (victoria, australia).



Related Topics
blondie
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-22-2015 WT Study (God Loves us?)
by blondie 5 months ago
TTWSYF
What's up with the HEBREWS translation?
by TTWSYF 4 months ago
Wonderment
John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2
by Wonderment 4 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo 2 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Another Trey Bundy Article on Reveal: "Jehovah’s Witnesses leaders say they don’t protect sexual abusers"
by AndersonsInfo 4 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/143886/questions-jws-1976?page=3&size=10





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Questions by JWs in 1976
/  





 

Questions by JWs in 1976
by Doug Mason 8 years ago 33 Replies latest 3 years ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
5
10
20
Aussie Oz
Aussie Oz 3 years ago

thankyou...downloaded those pdf's
would love to have that 20 page letter somehow! (my email addy will identify me and my company)
Oz
 
Steve_C
Steve_C 3 years ago

NeverKnew You have a PM
 
smiddy
smiddy 3 years ago

BTTT
 
transhuman68
transhuman68 3 years ago

Also available here: http://archive.org/details/QuestionsByJehovahsWitnesses


 

«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
in 1976, my friend bruce price was in contact with jehovahs witnesses who had become disillusioned through the debacle with 1975. bruce was the leading voice among the sda ministry in working for jws.
at the time, i was a member of the sda church.
although i left them about 25 years ago, to this day bruce and i enjoy a strong and genuinely warm friendship.. so, in 1976 bruce invited me to a meeting with one of the jws who was leading the disquiet in his congregation in dandenong (victoria, australia).



Related Topics
blondie
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-22-2015 WT Study (God Loves us?)
by blondie 5 months ago
TTWSYF
What's up with the HEBREWS translation?
by TTWSYF 4 months ago
Wonderment
John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2
by Wonderment 4 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo 2 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Another Trey Bundy Article on Reveal: "Jehovah’s Witnesses leaders say they don’t protect sexual abusers"
by AndersonsInfo 4 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/143886/questions-jws-1976?page=4&size=10





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home





Search 'sda church'
First
 Next
  barry
6
Lord save us from the Devil the Turk the Comet and the Fanatics 11.
by barry in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 12 years ago
Now in church , we see how worldly we have become. We have our sharply dressed preachers entering with their zoot ...

czarofmischief
barry
mouthy
12 years ago
barry
7
Seventh Gay Adventists, a movie you should see.
by barry in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 3 years ago
The SDA church is allmost as conservative as the witnesses.. This from Roy Gane professor SDA theological seminary ...

jwfacts
barry
LisaRose
3 years ago
barry
6
Is the WT a 501[c][3] incorporated non profit.
by barry in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 2 years ago
The reason I ask is because from what I have heard the SDA church is of this statis. Because of the 5013c in the ...

ABibleStudent
Chaserious
jgnat
2 years ago
barry
4
Disfellowshiping and Disassociation the SDA way.
by barry in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 12 years ago
Posted on Monday June 2004 My husband wrote a letter a few weeks ago to the SDA church he had his last membership at ...

seeitallclearlynow
ozziepost
barry
12 years ago
Defender
1
The SDA and Unity.
by Defender in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 14 years ago
God gave to this church a unique structure. We are one body around the world. But in a rapidly growing church, ...

anewperson
14 years ago
weskerbouts
36
Help: Been Disfellowshipped for 6 Days.
by weskerbouts in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 4 years ago
I wonder should I give SDA church a try. I know they are very smiliar to JWs. I read that on jwfacts.

Hoffnung
OnTheWayOut
harleybear
4 years ago
barry
26
Angus Jones becomes a Seventh Day Adventist.
by barry in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 3 years ago
Angus Jones has been baptised a SDA in a end times conspiracy theory SDA church and is telling people not to watch ...

Eustace
Eustace
peacefulpete
3 years ago
Doug Mason
33
Questions by JWs in 1976.
by Doug Mason in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 8 years ago
Bruce was the leading voice among the SDA ministry in working for JWs. At the time, I was a member of the SDA Church ...

Steve_C
smiddy
transhuman68
3 years ago
barry
Lord save us from the Devil the Turk the Comet and the Fanatics.
by barry in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 12 years ago
The group from what I have learnt beleives that the SDA Church leadership has been taken over by Jesuits and as a ...

candidlynuts
6
2000 years or so of end time predictions.. watchtower is not unique.
by candidlynuts in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 10 years ago
Meanwhile, some Christians had given their possessions to the Church in anticipation of the end.

candidlynuts
jayhawk1
betweenworlds
10 years ago
First
 Next
 
 
 


Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/search/?q=sda+church&cursor=False%3ACqMECp0BCoAB_7_p1mNAAAAA9w3v_kz_4-YhjIGWkYuajJCZi9KWkZzelZqXkImel4zSiJaLkZqMjNGckJL_AHRtoKCZi4ygoP8AXZ6Pj5qRmJaRmv8Ac3RtlpGbmof_AF2rkI-WnP8Ac3Rtm5CcoJab_wBdzsjGyc_K_wBzf87IxsnPyv8A__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







Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Disappointed by JW Visit
/  





 

Disappointed by JW Visit
by Cold Steel 5 years ago 32 Replies latest 5 years ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
 5
10
20
Cold Steel
Cold Steel 5 years ago

Okay, I wanted to know more about the JWs, so I went to the website and filled in my name and other info. I was finally contacted, set up an appointment and visited. The first two people came and they were nice, but one of the fellows looked uptight and avoided eye contact. The other came for all three visits and was genuinely nice and clearly a believer. During the third visit, they came with an elder who seemed to be more aggressive.
Back in the 70s, the JWs I spoke with seemed to be very knowledgable about their religion and about the Bible. But these guys kept writing down my scriptural references and telling me they'd get back to me on them. Specifically, I pointed out the "other" verses associated with Armageddon (the ones showing that it would be located at Jerusalem). In these cases, it wasn't a matter of them disagreeing with me as much as that these scriptures came as a complete surprise to them! The terms "Judah" and "Jerusalem" seemed to really throw them. I also asked about the validity of their religion and why it wasn't a manmade church, while all the others were. On the third visit, they assured me they would check the scriptures and get back to me. (The elder took quite a few notes, folded the papers and stuffed them in his pocket.)
They also assured me they'd be back in touch for another visit, but that's the last I heard from them. It's been two weeks and...nothing.
Did I offend them? Scare them off? What?
I was very surprised by all three visits and the fact that none of these guys seemed to know how to answer critical questions. In short, they seemed to know all the scriptures in that little book they gave me, but little else. It made me wonder what had happened to them. In short, they read the book with me, asking all the questions that had predetermined answers -- and they were ill prepared to handle any questions that weren't in the book. Then they stopped coming!
Back in the "day," they were much better versed than they are now. Their arguments weren't any better back then, but at least they knew how to handle a curve ball. Now all they'd say was, "That's an interesting point. I'll make a note of it here and we'll get back to you." (I think I could have debated their points better than they did, except for the ones questioning the church's verity. (In olden days, churches and church officers were established and appointed by prophets, apostles and others that weren't self-appointed. Now the JWs' claim to be the church and kingdom of Jehovah is based only on the process of elimination, and anyone can do that! And they do! Seventh Day Adventists, churches of Christ -- they're all established with their own claims to fame, though the SDA can point to the visions and revelations of Ellen White who, like Muhammed, didn't leave a successor.) The small book they gave me doesn't make much of a case, either, except to condemn other religions as being false. I guess that would make theirs true by contrast.
But all that aside, why didn't they come back? I can't believe they caved that easily. I was pulling my punches as it was because I really wanted to get the answers and wasn't interested in a debate.
 
OUTLAW
OUTLAW 5 years ago

 After 1975 Jehovah`s Witness`s are`nt sure what they believe..
 They boarded up the windows in Kingdom Halls and have been hiding out ever since..


 ....................... ...OUTLAW






 
seawolf
seawolf 5 years ago

They're going for the low-hanging fruit (people that don't question and gobble it all up like the dog returning to its vomit) and are easy. You're probably too much trouble/questions/time so they moved on.
 
garyneal
garyneal 5 years ago

Interesting. Makes me think of a conversation I had with an elder of my wife's congregation. I recall asking him how he came to believe that this religion was the truth. I was surprised that all it took was a few Bible studies but he said the witnesses who studied with him was able to answer all his questions from scripture.
Since he's been in the truth for 50+ years, I can assume that those witnesses who studied with him were indeed more knowledgeable of their doctrine.
 
daringhart13
daringhart13 5 years ago

That isn't surprising to me at all.
The vast majority.....like 95% or more couldn't tell you anything about the Bible or their own religion's history. Its shocking....and deeply disturbing. They get in that pool and get baptized knowing almost NOTHING.....
Those I love are still practicing....and admit to me they know 'nothing about the Bible'......
I just sit there with my jaw on the ground
 
caliber
caliber 5 years ago

According to a very close JW relative.. this is the current stance of JW's ..". present magazines , don't get into deep discussions or arguments !" ..invite then to the KH
I think they are aware of all the information out there that could "stumble " new publishers .
Even most Elder are shamefully unaware of WT history !
When I tried to talk to this relative about past histroy , even just that one question ... " Have you proved to yourself that
the WT was appointed by God in 1919...what do the facts show ?"
He simply answered I just keep looking straight ahead and never look back ! ( a former Elder now elderly )
 
yknot
yknot 5 years ago

Kinda makes you wonder how we manage to beat out the Mormons on conversion....... (sisterly giggles)
The great dumbing down........sigh.
Gone are the days of the 'truth can withstand any scrutinty'......
I think I am starting to get more about the 'revelation' thing .....(granted it is still pretty foreign but understanding the depth to you)
 
ssn587
ssn587 5 years ago

cold steel, you mention the following:
 I pointed out the "other" verses associated with Armageddon (the ones showing that it would be located at Jerusalem).
If you would be so kind as to site these scriptures or to send them to me via a pm I would be most appreciative. tks in advance.
 
seawolf
seawolf 5 years ago

ssn587,

I was wondering the same thing. Hope they're posted here so those not up on it can be in the know.
 
EmptyInside
EmptyInside 5 years ago

Actually, it is the focus to get householders in the "Bible Teach" book,and that , is probably what they are trying to do. They want to start a regular study with you.
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
Island Man
How the Bible disproves the JWs' 1914 invisible presence doctrine.
by Island Man 3 months ago
Wonderment
John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2
by Wonderment 4 months ago
pixel
JW Vs. Mormon program
by pixel 14 days ago
Terry
A POP QUIZ about the origin of "NEW LIGHT"
by Terry 2 months ago
JW_Rogue
Your Answers vs. WT Propaganda
by JW_Rogue 2 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/200207/disappointed-jw-visit





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Disappointed by JW Visit
/  





 

Disappointed by JW Visit
by Cold Steel 5 years ago 32 Replies latest 5 years ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
 5
10
20
Broken Promises
Broken Promises 5 years ago

They don't make JWs the way they used to be. Just dumbed-down versions of what they proclaim to be.
 
wobble
wobble 5 years ago

As a lad of sixteen I could go toe to toe with Vicars, Priests and Pastors with the scriptures. I grew up in the 1950/60's and was encouraged to get to know my Bible, all with a WT slant of course.
Over the years I observed a steady decline in people prepared to do any real study, then I saw an speeding up of the dumming down, until now even seasoned old believers have said to me that it is all so childish in the way it is presented.
One old boy I visited last week said he felt is was hardly worth his going to the mid-week meeting for that very reason !
(I wanted to say "but Sunday can't be much better" but I held my tongue. They are sweet old couple who need their faith now )
I find it increasingly frustrating that they will not turn any kind of spot light on their religion or beliefs, they turn tail and run, never keeping their promise to return.
 
Chalam
Chalam 5 years ago

But these guys kept writing down my scriptural references and telling me they'd get back to me on them.
On the third visit, they assured me they would check the scriptures and get back to me.
In short, they read the book with me, asking all the questions that had predetermined answers -- and they were ill prepared to handle any questions that weren't in the book.
That's an interesting point. I'll make a note of it here and we'll get back to you.

I have had similar experiences ranging from older JWs to younger ones. However, before too long they all come up with "I'll get back to you" which means reading the WT publications for 'answers'.

 I was pulling my punches as it was because I really wanted to get the answers and wasn't interested in a debate.
So what answers are you looking for? Answers to questions regarding the WT doctrine or biblical questions?
IMHO, the former can never be answered, the WT theology is a maze in which you will soon get lost in and you will soon end up following the FDS to "paradise earth".

If you are looking for biblical answers then firstly and foremost you need to ask the Holy Spirit John 14:26, John 15:26, 1 Corinthians 2:14 , 1 John 2:27
Secondly, you can ask those who have the Spirit living within them John 14:15-21, 1 Corinthians 2:10 , 1 Corinthians 2:16
So what questions do you have?

Blessings,
Stephen
 
designs
designs 5 years ago

Well for starters you never critiqued or answered your own statements on the obvious and apparent contradictions in the Trinity dogma.
Why did Trinitarians slaughter and subjugate humans on 6 continents, steal their land and force them by threat of death to accept your version of God.
Why do you pry on young children and brainwash their minds.


 
MrMonroe
MrMonroe 5 years ago

My guess is that they went and sat in their car for an hour or so with furrowed brows and eventually decided that you weren't really searching and weren't really deserving. They probably guessed you wouldn't be convinced easily and figured they'd just end up becoming frustrated by not winning you over. If you're raising questions they've never considered before, the problem for them is they have only one "research" source they're allowed to turn to. If the Watchtower has never addressed your points, it all becomes just too hard.
 
MMXIV
MMXIV 5 years ago

Sadly I was one of 95% of JW's who couldn't debate anything on the bible, but was considered a bright young prospect with lot's of hours on reports to prove I was spiritual.
Hope you find your answers, but despite 3 decades of training I count myself out of being able to help.
MMXIV
 
designs
designs 5 years ago

Let's talk about the diamonds that appeared at the Church, they were cut diamonds, now someone had to have cut them- humans or angels? Were they legal diamonds or blood diamonds, all legal diamonds have to be registered, was the great beyond dealing in legal diamonds or illegal blood diamonds.
Still 18,000 children starve to death every single day and then are sent to Burn in Hell by the famous Trinity Jesus/God of Hell Fire.
Oh the questions I had in Bible Study class that went unanswered..........
When you have over 100-million members are you still a Cult, yes.
 
designs
designs 5 years ago

I guess Stephen, self appointed leader of the Evangelical Cult of Jesus/God of Hell Fire, meant ask questions unless you are Grandpa designs
 
oldlightnewshite
oldlightnewshite 5 years ago

Up until about 8 years ago, I could maybe count on having about 2 conversations a year with people in the ministry where the subject went 'off topic' from whatever we were presenting that month. Nowadays, JWs just don't get to 'freestyle' with the bible and the general public. It's gotta be even worse now.
They were probably advised not to return as you had dangerous questions.
 
designs
designs 5 years ago

Well let's see how we're doing:
Questions about Jesus/God of Hell Fire............no answers
Questions about Evangelical Abuse of Minors..............no answers
Other assorted questions to the Evangelicals and their Cult Leaders.............no answers
Ok


 

«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
okay, i wanted to know more about the jws, so i went to the website and filled in my name and other info.
i was finally contacted, set up an appointment and visited.
the first two people came and they were nice, but one of the fellows looked uptight and avoided eye contact.



Related Topics
Island Man
How the Bible disproves the JWs' 1914 invisible presence doctrine.
by Island Man 3 months ago
Wonderment
John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2
by Wonderment 4 months ago
pixel
JW Vs. Mormon program
by pixel 14 days ago
Terry
A POP QUIZ about the origin of "NEW LIGHT"
by Terry 2 months ago
JW_Rogue
Your Answers vs. WT Propaganda
by JW_Rogue 2 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/200207/disappointed-jw-visit?page=2&size=10






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Disappointed by JW Visit
/  





 

Disappointed by JW Visit
by Cold Steel 5 years ago 32 Replies latest 5 years ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
 5
10
20
troubled mind
troubled mind 5 years ago

The ministry has been 'dumbed down' quite a bit in my lifetime . I remember as a kid I knew how to really use my Bible and debate scriptures (of course using WT logic)
Slowly around the 1980's things kept getting simplier until now a days most Witnesses that come to your door couldn't find an answer on their own if their life depended upon it .
They have become so dependant on stating exactly what the Society prints they no longer have any thinking ability left .The Reasoning Book is a good example of that ....no longer did you have to think on your own when a question of faith came up ..you just turned to the topic in question and read the canned response from the book .
I agree it is because so many in the field do have good Bible sense and have the internet .The Society does not want the inexperienced publishers becoming stumbled by thinking individuals . So leave a magazine and run .
 
caliber
caliber 5 years ago


Slowly around the 1980's things kept getting simpler until now a days most Witnesses that come to your door couldn't find an answer on their own if their life depended upon it .
The Society does not want the inexperienced publishers becoming stumbled by thinking individuals . So leave a magazine and run .
The ministry has been 'dumbed down' quite a bit in my lifetime
Only the dumbed down can stay with it... if you got deep into thinking over the years , you are most likely on boards like this one !!
In the 1990's many people had the Reasoning book sewn right into the bible... thus your easy caned answers at your finger tips
plus you could impressed the householder (many likely thought you were thumbing through your Bible)
They have no real communication skills. They don't know how to engage in honest debate because all they have been taught is to attack other belief systems.....Sabs
Here is a truth that is foreign to most JW's I'd rather be hurt by the truth, than protected by a lie
 
Ding
Ding 5 years ago

Cold Steel,
I'm not convinced that the JWs you talked to won't be back.
If they don't return, they probably have concluded amongst themselves that you want to argue with them rather than being open to converting.
 
BluesBrother
BluesBrother 5 years ago

Back in the "day," they were much better versed than they are now. Their arguments weren't any better back then, but at least they knew how to handle a curve ball
Yes, that about says it all. The Organisation has indeed dumbed down its study for J W's so, of course, they do not know as much. It depends who you get, of course. My Missus would lap up your questions and fire back with her answers..all baloneyif you think about it, but at least a sprited debate.
They don't make 'em like that any more....
 
Ding
Ding 5 years ago

Designs,
In many of your posts, you come across as an angry person who believes most of what the Watchtower teaches but not the Society's claims to be the FDS, God's organization, etc.
I'd appreciate it if you would start a separate thread in which you explain the basics of what you believe and tell us why you are angry so much of the time.
If you've already done this, please tell me where to find the post and I'll go read it.
 
Think About It
Think About It 5 years ago

How could someone have JW's come to their house, and then be dissappointed after they leave?

Think About It
 
sabastious
sabastious 5 years ago

The Reasoning Book is a good example of that ....no longer did you have to think on your own when a question of faith came up ..you just turned to the topic in question and read the canned response from the book .
Indeed. I think what has resulted is a bunch of drones. I never lived "back in the day" but I would wager that JWs were more fiery and zealous about their faith, because they had to get to their conclusions more on their own.
Now it's just "turn to page 92"
^ "Wasn't that great! Question. Answered!"
-Sab
 
Nickolas
Nickolas 5 years ago

Why did Trinitarians slaughter and subjugate humans on 6 continents, steal their land and force them by threat of death to accept your version of God.
It seems to me, designs, that you are disdainful of the trinity doctrine but nevertheless religious? I agree, the trinity doctrine is nonsense, but citing the atrocities of crusading trinitarians is like drawing attention to one particular wart on a toad. You don't have to look any farther than the old testament to find atrocities of the most heinous nature committed by non-trinitarians, like the genocidal slaughters wrought by Abraham, Joshua and Moses, if only to touch on a chosen few, all at the behest of a loving god. Fundamentalist Muslims (who don't believe in the trinity, either) flying planes into skyscrapers, undertaking "ethnic cleansing" or beheading women who have dared to expose an ankle, Tamil Hindus (multiple gods) blowing themselves up in the midst of market crowds, paganistic National Socialists (non trinitarians, all) incinerating millions.
Maybe this is just the pot and kettle conversation. All religions have the blood of innocents on their hands.
 
Cold Steel
Cold Steel 5 years ago

cold steel, you mention the following:
 I pointed out the "other" verses associated with Armageddon (the ones showing that it would be located at Jerusalem).
If you would be so kind as to site these scriptures or to send them to me via a pm I would be most appreciative. tks in advance.
The Jews and Christians both have similar views about Armegeddon. The way Armageddon is supposed to go down is with the coming of a vast army coming from the North and down on Jerusalem. Ezekiel 38 describes the force that will be brought to bear, and the Lord actually addresses Gog before destroying him. When the great sixth seal earthquake occurs, many people think it will result in the destruction of the Dome of the Rock and the mosque. It's then that they'll finally build their temple. This would cause many nations to descend on Jerusalem; but whatever the reason, the "beast" mentioned in Revelation will come down on the holy city with a vast army made up of all the nations of the earth. (See Ezek. 38 and Zechariah 12-14)
At that point the Lord will raise up two prophets who will use supernatural powers against the beast. They'll bring down fire from heaven and their ministry will last for three and a half years. After that, they'll be killed and the Jews will be overrun and much of the city will fall. After three and a half days, the two prophets will be resurrected and ascend into heaven to meet the coming Christ (see Rev. 11:2-7). An earthquake will rock the earth and the Mount of Olives will cleave in twain, and the Jews will run into the valley created by the quake. When Jesus/Jehovah descends into their midst, one of the Jews will ask, "What are these wounds in thy hands?" Ane He will reply, "Those are the wounds I received in the House of my friends." Then they'll know that their forefathers killed their Messiah, and the land shall go into mourning. Jesus will then enter the East Gate of the temple as prophecied.
Armageddon will not involve the Jehovah's Witnesses. The scriptures indicate that the nations "round about" Jerusalem that had taken part in the battle, like Egypt, will initially refuse to come up to Jerusalem to celebrate the Feast of the Tabernacles (probably because it will be difficult for them to give up Islam right away). But such nations will be visited with plague and famine until they comply (see Zechariah 14:16-17).
That's basically it. The Jews mistook the Romans as this great force, but they were mistaken. Judah, according to scriptures, first had to be dispersed, then gathered from the four corners of the earth (see Isaiah 11).
The JW rendition of Armageddon being a worldwide battle is absurd. No Christian or Jewish scholar sees it that way and that's where the guys who visited me choked. They recognized part of it, but left out Jerusalem entirely.



 
steve2
steve2 5 years ago

Back in the "day," they were much better versed than they are now. Their arguments weren't any better back then, but at least they knew how to handle a curve ball.

Yes, I agree. Modern-day Jehovah's witnesses don't even bother to give a show of appearing to know their Bible well. I attribute it to a relative lack of "interest" in open discussions but also appalling ignorance and lack of curiosity about how they are perceived by others.
Dull minds have no need to inquire.
When I was a kid in the 1950s, the older JWs really knew how to sell their beleifs and would go out of their way to demonstrate through Scripture why they believed what they believed. yes, they were just as misled as the current crop, but at least they fully owned their beliefs and did their best to defend them.
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
okay, i wanted to know more about the jws, so i went to the website and filled in my name and other info.
i was finally contacted, set up an appointment and visited.
the first two people came and they were nice, but one of the fellows looked uptight and avoided eye contact.



Related Topics
Island Man
How the Bible disproves the JWs' 1914 invisible presence doctrine.
by Island Man 3 months ago
Wonderment
John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2
by Wonderment 4 months ago
pixel
JW Vs. Mormon program
by pixel 14 days ago
Terry
A POP QUIZ about the origin of "NEW LIGHT"
by Terry 2 months ago
JW_Rogue
Your Answers vs. WT Propaganda
by JW_Rogue 2 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/200207/disappointed-jw-visit?page=3&size=10






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Disappointed by JW Visit
/  





 

Disappointed by JW Visit
by Cold Steel 5 years ago 32 Replies latest 5 years ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
5
10
20
Ding
Ding 5 years ago

The WTBTS spiritualizes everything in the Bible and applies it to them.
The Christian churches in Acts and the epistles becomes "God's organization" headquartered in Brooklyn.
Despite Romans 11, Israel becomes "Jehovah's Witnesses."
Jesus' prophecy about the destruction his generation would see becomes a prophecy about the Watchtower and what the generation of 1914 will see.
The 7 trumpets of Revelation become various meetings in Watchtower history.
The 'sabbath rest of God" becomes 1975.
The list goes on and on.
 
SuspiciousMinds
SuspiciousMinds 5 years ago

Your experience sounds about right - we're freshly "out", and I can assure you the average JW these days does not have a clue about current doctrine, nor do they care. All they know is they must do as the GB instructs them, and this makes them "spiritual" and worthy of everlasting life.
We wrote a very long letter outlining the doctrine and application of prophecy that we had issues with. After a couple of weeks we did get a visit from 2 elders, but their only concern was that we may not refuse blood - they didn't even address anything else!
 
kurtbethel
kurtbethel 5 years ago

Getting one of those spoors to answer a simple question with a direct answer is like pulling teeth.
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
okay, i wanted to know more about the jws, so i went to the website and filled in my name and other info.
i was finally contacted, set up an appointment and visited.
the first two people came and they were nice, but one of the fellows looked uptight and avoided eye contact.



Related Topics
Island Man
How the Bible disproves the JWs' 1914 invisible presence doctrine.
by Island Man 3 months ago
Wonderment
John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2
by Wonderment 4 months ago
pixel
JW Vs. Mormon program
by pixel 14 days ago
Terry
A POP QUIZ about the origin of "NEW LIGHT"
by Terry 2 months ago
JW_Rogue
Your Answers vs. WT Propaganda
by JW_Rogue 2 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/200207/disappointed-jw-visit?page=4&size=10





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ I dont agree with you but I will fight to the death for you to say it
/  





 

I dont agree with you but I will fight to the death for you to say it
by barry 3 years ago 4 Replies latest 3 years ago   jw friends
5
10
20
barry
barry 3 years ago


&feature=player_detailpage#t=3495s

Here is an SDA agonizing about his church in front a congregation. He would be regarded as very conservative and have some very much redundant teachings but would represent a large section of the church. eg his stand on righteousness by faith is now not held by the denomination.
At least If people are allowed to talk it serves the purpose of us all knowing about there nutty idears and so we can decide we want none of it. Barry
 
barry
barry 3 years ago

Thats a utube link and I am not able to get it to work so can anyone help?
 
darthweef
darthweef 3 years ago

This is over an hour long .. any chance you want to summarize for those of us that are done with public talks?
 
WTWizard
WTWizard 3 years ago

Freedom of speech does more than protecting people's right to speak things that are not true. It protects our right to speak things that are true, even though they can decimate those perpetrating the "official" lies.
Without freedom of speech, we are stuck with a tiny minority of parasites speaking what is to their advantage, and everyone else has to go along with them to their detriment. The truth never gets out, people are enslaved, and the minority in control maintain this. We get the people in charge stating that [group trying to enslave everyone] is innocent, and everyone else is scum, and anyone that accuses [group trying to enslave everyone] of trying to enslave everyone is going to be silenced. We see this on forums (usually other posters will spam the Official Lie when someone tries speaking the truth, someone will complain anti-[group trying to enslave everyone], or mods will censor, edit, and ban for such speech. Sometimes [group trying to enslave everyone] will force such forums to censor these posts and ban the posters or else face fines and jail time. Which is what we do not need.
True freedom of speech ultimately reveals the truth. You have the right to state that something cures cancer. If it does, the word spreads. If it doesn't, people also have the right to state that the substance doesn't work, and even causes dangerous side effects that are worse than the cancer. Ultimately, whoever has the stronger argument wins, and people are free to experiment on their own at their own risk (free speech doesn't guarantee accuracy). Suppression of a statement, even a bad one, simply means people are not as free to analyze both sides and experiment as well as they might have.
 
Phizzy
Phizzy 3 years ago

I am all for free speech, but all freedoms have to be relative, or my freedom becomes your prison.
In the U.K we have Laws against hate Speech, and Speech likely to cause Violence. I do not see those restrictions as being wrong, I think they are good laws.
What does worry me is the self imposed censorship by many so as not to offend Islamists in particular, but other groups too want not to be "offended" and the Media panders to them.
Nobody has the right not to be offended, you don't die because you are offended, those that take offense, like the benighted ignorant Taliban type Muslims may though become violent, so I see why in this country we don't publish much that is deemed to be offensive to them.
The problem is that we are then censoring what we produce because of Islamic sensibilities, somethingwe should not do.
We need more courageous, outspoken realists like the great Pat Condell.
It is a shame too that JW's can never speak their mind or say what they really believe unless in the company of those they really trust, no JW would include in a Public Talk his private differences with current WT teaching, unless he did it by mistake, which I have seen done, Bro Numbnuts was not up to date with the latest, he got on the platform after the WT study and revised what he had said, but still made a balls-up of his explanation, hilarious !
 

5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
Defianttruth
Help to build a "Guide to Your New Faith"
by Defianttruth 2 months ago
blondie
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-22-2015 WT Study (God Loves us?)
by blondie 5 months ago
AndersonsInfo
USA Today article: Majority of people in Scotland have no religion
by AndersonsInfo 2 days ago
Watchtower-Free
"The church is reeling after a Royal Commission in Australia made 77 adverse findings"
by Watchtower-Free 3 months ago
ilikecheese
Death of a loved one and faith
by ilikecheese 3 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/245080/dont-agree-you-but-will-fight-death-you-say





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ 19th century century Prophets could our Mormon friends comment
/  





 

19th century century Prophets could our Mormon friends comment
by barry 8 years ago 16 Replies latest 8 years ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20
barry
barry 8 years ago

Ive just been listening on utube to learn about Joseph Smith and Im wondering how our Mormon friends view Joseph. Qcmbr, Susanhere and others.
I saw on th emovie how Joseph had a vison of Moroni and Joseph was supprised Moroni was white and said he was a Jew. Jews happen to have dark skin like Greeks or lebonese people they are semetic while the American Indians are of the mongolian race.Two different races altogether.
I also saw on the movie how Joseph translated the plates by putting them in a hat with the two stones and waiting for the light to come so he could translate to the writer.
When the writer hid the orininal transcript God got very angry with Joseph and said he would not allow him to translate from Lehi anymore and future translations would be from Levi. How convenient both books were the same account just happen to be written slightly different wording.
I would like to know if you Mormons accually beleive this bull... and if as a church their are many dissenters?
Im an SDA [Seventh day Adventist ]and we have a Prophet Ellen White who has also some baggage such as plagerising materal from other writers including Joseph and contradicting the bible by supporting the early Adventists with their erronious doctrine of the investigative judgement and the events surrounding 1844. The doctrine flys in the face of the protestant gospel of righteousness by faith and so many Adventists teach just the same as the roman church on Justification. .
Ellen White beleive the black races were an amalgamation of humans breeding with animals.
Ellen White was no where as colourful as Joseph she spent most of her time telling other people where they were wrong and said it was from god and telling them not to play cricket and ride bicycles.
 
zeroday
zeroday 8 years ago

Joseph Smith is revered by Mormons as a Prophet of God. His first vision has changed a number of times as to who he actually saw. He did not put the plates in a hat he put a seer stone in the hat and put his face over the hat and the words would appear and he would read them and Oliver Crowdery would write them down. No one but Smith ever saw the gold plates. Oliver took the first 116 pages home to show his wife and she knew they were a fraud and stole them. Since the BOM was a product of Smith's imagination he could not retranslate them word for word so conviently God gave him a revelation not to retranslate them. Smith was charged and convicted some years before of "Glass Looking" he would put a seer stone in his hat and tell people where buried treasures were for a price...
 
Qcmbr
Qcmbr 8 years ago

I've met white skinned Jews but that's a whole different story. Your point about skin colour is a bit naff IMO.
Moroni appeared as an angel - we have no records as far as I'm aware of any angels who are considered white skinned due to race - it is because they are supposedly 'producing' light:
(New Testament | Revelation 1:14 - 15)
14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace
(Pearl of Great Price | JS-History 1:17)
17 ... When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description,
and of Moroni:
(Pearl of Great Price | JS-History 1:31 - 32)
31 He had on a loose robe of most exquisite whiteness. It was a whiteness beyond anything earthly I had ever seen; nor do I believe that any earthly thing could be made to appear so exceedingly white and brilliant. His hands were naked, and his arms also, a little above the wrist; so, also, were his feet naked, as were his legs, a little above the ankles. His head and neck were also bare. I could discover that he had no other clothing on but this robe, as it was open, so that I could see into his bosom.
32 Not only was his robe exceedingly white, but his whole person was glorious beyond description, and his countenance truly like lightning. The room was exceedingly light, but not so very bright as immediately around his person.
I doubt that such notions of Scandinavian white(pink!?) skin are really the issue here.
Joseph Smith's translation of the plates was indeed unusual not simply for how it was done but because of the speed and consistency of his output - if he did make it up it is remarkable - you need to put this in context - a person in their young twenties who is a farmer writes an epic religious story that no one has yet come close to replicating. It describes several different cultures in detail that is logical and agrees with cultures of the times described, it doesn't make any yet proven mistakes in placing of people, locations or technologies ( a mean feat considering that it was written so long ago.) It is arguably consistent with the bible (there will always be areas that can be shown to disagree since the bible is itself internally inconsistent and contextually framed.) It describes guerilla warfare and exactly how to defeat it, it contains tactical battleplans, records for governing people, laws, monetary systems, hebrew idioms, chiasmus, consistent hebrew names, cultural phrasing and so on.. if Jospeh didn't write it someone very, very clever did. If Jospeh made it up then he's a genius and an extremely lucky one at that.
(Pearl of Great Price | JS-History Note:1)
 Oliver Cowdery describes these events thus: "These were days never to be forgotten—to sit under the sound of a voice dictated by the inspiration of heaven, awakened the utmost gratitude of this bosom! Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, 'Interpreters,' the history or record called 'The Book of Mormon.'
Why didn't Joseph show them to more than the witnesses? (i.e. forget the lie about no one else seeing them.)
(Pearl of Great Price | JS-History 1:59 - 60)
59 At length the time arrived for obtaining the plates, the Urim and Thummim, and the breastplate. On the twenty-second day of September, one thousand eight hundred and twenty-seven, having gone as usual at the end of another year to the place where they were deposited, the same heavenly messenger delivered them up to me with this charge: that I should be responsible for them; that if I should let them go carelessly, or through any neglect of mine, I should be cut off; but that if I would use all my endeavors to preserve them, until he, the messenger, should call for them, they should be protected.
60 I soon found out the reason why I had received such strict charges to keep them safe, and why it was that the messenger had said that when I had done what was required at my hand, he would call for them. For no sooner was it known that I had them, than the most strenuous exertions were used to get them from me. Every stratagem that could be invented was resorted to for that purpose. The persecution became more bitter and severe than before, and multitudes were on the alert continually to get them from me if possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_116_pages explains this adequately - the pages where stolen - think about it - why would they be stolen? If Jospeh repeats the translation word for word what would the thief do? Is it possible nay probable that they would alter the original and then release it proving that Jospeh was a fraud. Jospeh was in an almost impossible position.Retranslate and be 'proven' false or wait for direction from God on what to do. Even if you think he was a fraud the 'solutio' was brilliant and unfortunately for doubters they were left unable to do more than whinge - nobody seems to focus on WHY someone would steal them in the first place.
Are there plenty of dissenters. Absolutely. Jesus had a similar problem.
(New Testament | John 6:66 - 68)
66 ¶ From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
As for do Mormons believe this bull - well er yes - why/or do you believe the 'bull' YOU listed about the SDAs? Me I don't know what the SDAs believe so I wouldn't suggest it is bull.
As for Jospeh Smith himself - you can throw as many verbal brick bats as you like but lets be honest he whips your sorry arse (and mine) for achievements, he built cities, ran for president, had a private army, produced several books of scripture that are believed by millions, created a cultural people who love education, country and family, he organised the first women's organisation, advocated many utterly novel religious ideas, was accepted by many as a prophet, has recorded instances of performing miracles, has more recorded fulfilled prophecies than ANY prophet, ran (unsuccessfully) a bank, wrote very moving words and finally died for his beliefs. Most frauds don't end up providing extremelly good fruits to their labours. On evidence of personal achievement alone JS whips any other self-procalimed religious leaders of the last two hundred years.

Do I believe? - some.
 
zeroday
zeroday 8 years ago

As for Jospeh Smith himself - you can throw as many verbal brick bats as you like but lets be honest he whips your sorry arse (and mine) for achievements, he built cities, ran for president, had a private army, produced several books of scripture that are believed by millions, created a cultural people who love education, country and family, he organised the first women's organisation
And he also had 30 plus wives some that were already married to other men what inspiration...
 
frankiespeakin
frankiespeakin 8 years ago

Zero,
And he also had 30 plus wives some that were already married to other men what inspiration
.

Well lets not fault him over that, the whole one husband one wife thingy, is very arbitrary and definately not written in stone(or should I say Gold tablets) morally speaking, while those who have been preprogrammed by culture or religion seem to think so.
But yes the seer stone thingy and not allowing any one to see the Gold tablets,, reeks with dishonesty that only a mind controlled person or very small child(easiest time to start indoctrinating is when young because they trust older people to be right) would beleive.
 
zeroday
zeroday 8 years ago

Well lets not fault him over that, the whole one husband one wife thingy, is very arbitrary and definately not written in stone
I just had a revelation your wife must lay with me as my wife, send her over or be smitten...
 
frankiespeakin
frankiespeakin 8 years ago

Zero,
What do you have to trade for one of my GFs, maybe one might be agreable.
 
zeroday
zeroday 8 years ago

I will give you the pick of someone elses wife the hot one...hey I only have 30 wives with none to spare...
 
frankiespeakin
frankiespeakin 8 years ago

Zero,
Well I hardly know you, maybe in the future we can work something out.
Anyway I was thinking of being a Morman and getting some of those cute mormon girls, about how many women I can take proper sexual care of I don't know? Maybe somewhere around 3-6 it all depends how young and horny they are, women when they hit thier 30's are the horniest so I should space it out age wise get 2 in thier 30's and maybe 2 in their 20's that's 4 total and I will alway have room for one more maybe a nice mature one to kinda keep things in order, and keep me post as to who's turn it is to be with me today or tonight if not I can always get a big giant calender that way I will alway make the rounds fairly.
 
barry
barry 8 years ago

Gday Qcmbr,
Hope you and youre family have a very merry xmas and thanks for the reply so soon.
The reason I brought up the issue on the white skin of Moroni is because Joseph Smith asked Moroni why he had white skin to which Moroni replyed that originally all the native peoples of north America had white skin but it was made red by God because they rebelled.
I would still like an answer to how can the American Indians be the offspring of the Jewish people when they are of different races one mongolian the other semetic?
I dont dought Joseph Smith was a smart bloke but there are many smart people around.
No I dont beleive SDA nonsense or bull about the SDA Prophet Ellen White and dont beleive her words should be used to interpret scripture as some SDAs use her writings. I beleive the only way someone claiming spiritual gifts should be tested in subjection the scripture or else we end up in a mental loop with no way of finding truth.
Barry
 

«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
Qcmbr
607 v 587 info
by Qcmbr 9 years ago
cantleave
Mormon's using the web to escape their cult.
by cantleave 3 years ago
Terry
TWIST ENDING: Who is the TRUE PROPHET?
by Terry 3 years ago
lambsbottom
Governing Body Of JW's Vs. Latter-day Saint's Prophets & Apostles
by lambsbottom 2 years ago
Wild_Thing
In the News: How being a teen mum, growing up as Jehovah’s Witness and my kids prepped me for Masterchef fame
by Wild_Thing 2 years ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/149378/19th-century-century-prophets-could-our-mormon-friends-comment





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ 19th century century Prophets could our Mormon friends comment
/  





 

19th century century Prophets could our Mormon friends comment
by barry 8 years ago 16 Replies latest 8 years ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20
frankiespeakin
frankiespeakin 8 years ago

I thought Susan would show up and give me some pointers about getting this thing together about getting some wives or gf or whatever. Maybe she might like to try out for wife #1, but I'm not studying no books and she can't keep talking to me about religion all the time she got to have a sense of humour too(money wouldn't hurt either).
 
SusanHere
SusanHere 8 years ago

LOL
Sorry Frankie, but I'm taken, now and forever. But thanks for the offer.
I'm afraid my criteria for husband material may have been too high for you. I required, first, a man of high intelligence. Second, a man of unquestionable character. Third, a man with deep spirituality that served as guide, motivation, and restraint in his life.
Also, he had to absolutely adore me and consider himself the luckiest man in the world to have me to love and adore him in return.
There were a few other requirements, but those hit the highlights.
What do you think -- would you have qualified?

SusanHere
 
SusanHere
SusanHere 8 years ago

Also, sorry to burst everyone's bubble about the sex with 30 wives scenerio that seems so popular around this board, mostly thanks to a certain poser who showed up lately.
But... the research makes it clear that Joseph Smith did not marry 30 women who were sexual partners to him. There is also no proof whatsoever that he had physical relations with any women who had living husbands.
He also did not have relations with 14-year old girls.
Sorry to be the bearer of such bubble-bursting news, but hey, fantasy is still an option, so feel free to imagine him -- or yourselves -- with scores of lovely, nubile, submissive females if it makes you happy.
I'll stick to the facts.

SusanHere
 
frankiespeakin
frankiespeakin 8 years ago

Sue,
Sorry Frankie, but I'm taken, now and forever. But thanks for the offer.
What is that supose to mean? Your not becoming a nun are you? Don't do that you will really miss out it's lots of fun.

I'm afraid my criteria for husband material may have been too high for you. I required, first, a man of high intelligence. Second, a man of unquestionable character. Third, a man with deep spirituality that served as guide, motivation, and restraint in his life.
Ah what a put down.
Alright requirement #1 I have a very "high" intelegence.
#2 I am an unquestionable character, but you can question me if you like I give you permision.
#3 I have a very deep deep deep spirituality, just because I don't beleive the same things you do, don't automatically conclude that I can not go very deep(spiritually speaking here not the other thingy).

Also, he had to absolutely adore me and consider himself the luckiest man in the world to have me to love and adore him in return.
O God anther impossible romantasist. Get real it takes time to build relationships and any body that feels that way in the begining about you is usually not going to keep it, especially if your a miss know-it-all or some other personality trait that will eventually cause some friction. It happens in all relationships, and honesty is need not fantasy to deal with it sensibly.

There were a few other requirements, but those hit the highlights. What do you think -- would you have qualified?
Well it seems like you are puposely stacking the cards against me, and I still got 3 out of 4 that adore thing takes time and there are no guarantees so I think you should throw that one out, way too imposible to be realistic.
 
SusanHere
SusanHere 8 years ago

Also, he had to absolutely adore me and consider himself the luckiest man in the world to have me to love and adore him in return.
O God anther impossible romantasist. Get real it takes time to build relationships and any body that feels that way in the begining about you is usually not going to keep it, especially if your a miss know-it-all or some other personality trait that will eventually cause some friction. It happens in all relationships, and honesty is need to fantasy to deal with it sensibly.

True, but that adoring part has to be there in the beginning, and then proven out over time. If the relationship is right, two people will overcome the challenges and difficulties, growing ever closer in the process. Marriage takes effort, work, a sense of humor, the ability to forgive, and the desire to give the health of the relationship a higher priority than anything else in life. If the love isn't strong enough in the beginning, there may not be enough water in the well to draw from during the tough times.
Why would anybody get married if they didn't truly love and adore the other? There are other reasons, I know, but could there be a better one?
By already taken now and forever, I mean married for time and all eternity, by choice. I caught a "keeper" on the first go-around. Not everyone's so lucky, unfortunately.
Congratulations on your score of 3 out of 4! (I guess I didn't word the "character" part quite clearly enough!)

SusanHere
P.S. Women love that romantic stuff. The payoff for the men is worth the extra effort!
 
frankiespeakin
frankiespeakin 8 years ago

Sue,
P.S. Women love that romantic stuff. The payoff for the men is worth the extra effort!
Yeah that's called bribery, in my book. Why is it we gentlemen have to be romantic to get alittle bumpty bump. Can't a guy just be his adorable self and not have to jump thru hoops, imposed by the opposite sexs idea of what is romantic. I not romantic persay and I feel just like a jerk when made respond that way, it is so phoney I destest it. I prefer to do more pratical things like help with bills or fix things and things like that.

BTW I only have one post left out of my 25 per day limit. So if anyone doesn't see my post it is because of a limit some moderater put on my posting and thread starting "priviledges"
 
barry
barry 8 years ago

I have a few more questions about th ebook of mormon.
Why is it there is no Archeological evidence for the book of mormon including no coins being found that were mentioned in the BOM, none of the 38 cities in the BOM have ever been found and not even one artifact been found?
The top Archeologist of BYU confirms this.
On the other hand we have coins used in bible times we have the cities mentioned in the bible being found and excavated .
The information I have also indicates various statements have been expounged in Joseph Smiths books. On the other hand the scholars of the bible are allways ready to find evaluate any small evidence found out about the bible even small fragements of texts.
There is also a book called the book of Abrahame that was translated by Joseph Smith even though he had no knowledge of the language. Scholars later found the manuscript to be nothing like Joseph Smith had written in his book.
 

«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
ive just been listening on utube to learn about joseph smith and im wondering how our mormon friends view joseph.
qcmbr, susanhere and others.. i saw on th emovie how joseph had a vison of moroni and joseph was supprised moroni was white and said he was a jew.
jews happen to have dark skin like greeks or lebonese people they are semetic while the american indians are of the mongolian race.two different races altogether.. i also saw on the movie how joseph translated the plates by putting them in a hat with the two stones and waiting for the light to come so he could translate to the writer.



Related Topics
Qcmbr
607 v 587 info
by Qcmbr 9 years ago
cantleave
Mormon's using the web to escape their cult.
by cantleave 3 years ago
Terry
TWIST ENDING: Who is the TRUE PROPHET?
by Terry 3 years ago
lambsbottom
Governing Body Of JW's Vs. Latter-day Saint's Prophets & Apostles
by lambsbottom 2 years ago
Wild_Thing
In the News: How being a teen mum, growing up as Jehovah’s Witness and my kids prepped me for Masterchef fame
by Wild_Thing 2 years ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/149378/19th-century-century-prophets-could-our-mormon-friends-comment?page=2&size=10





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home





Search 'sda church'
First
 Next
  Cold Steel
32
Disappointed by JW Visit.
by Cold Steel in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 5 years ago
I also asked about the validity of their religion and why it wasn't a manmade church, while all the others were.

Ding
SuspiciousMinds
kurtbethel
5 years ago
barry
Dr Desmond Ford a contemporary of Raymond Franz.
by barry in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 3 years ago
... had already been an apostate for about 28 years when this was recorded at a university SDA church in America .

jwfacts
9
Where Else Would I Go? The LONG Answer.
by jwfacts in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 10 years ago
... Seven Day Adventists and Worldwide Church of God echo this identical sentiment. (See sites such as ex-sda.com ...

peacefulpete
jwfacts
rebel8
10 years ago
badboy
14
EXTREME ACTIONS BY ELDERS!
by badboy in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 10 years ago
I understand from a previous that elders burst into a women's home in LAS VEGAS, and elders entered into a SDA church ...

wanda
Seeker4
badboy
10 years ago
badboy
20
DID ANY ELDER DO anything questionable?
by badboy in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 11 years ago
. I have read Ozziepost's post on those tasmanian elders who raided a SDA church .. Does anyone know of similiar ...

Nancy Drake
mkr32208
badboy
11 years ago
diamondblue1974
4
UK MINISTERS OF RELIGION ARE NOW CAPABLE OF BEING EMPLOYEES.
by diamondblue1974 in Social
 » News & World Events
 10 years ago
Ms Percy was an ordained Minister of the Church of Scotland. She claimed sex discrimination. The employment tribunal ...

diamondblue1974
diamondblue1974
MidwichCuckoo
10 years ago
barry
4
I dont agree with you but I will fight to the death for you to say it.
by barry in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 3 years ago
Here is an SDA agonizing about his church in front a congregation. He would be regarded as very conservative and ...

darthweef
WTWizard
Phizzy
3 years ago
barry
108
Are black people more emotional than white people.
by barry in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 4 years ago
... even in a church. Things which that wouldnt be acceptable in Australia.. The link below also shows black SDA ...

Diest
barry
sizemik
4 years ago
barry
16
19th century century Prophets could our Mormon friends comment.
by barry in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 8 years ago
... you Mormons accually beleive this bull... and if as a church their are many dissenters?. Im an SDA [Seventh day ...

SusanHere
frankiespeakin
barry
8 years ago
confusedandalone
24
Christmas trip to Jamaica: A story, Humanitarian Aid, Deja Vu and final release from Watchtower Chains(with pictures ...
by confusedandalone in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 2 years ago
Her grandmother has the most prominent tomb because she donaated tons of money to the church and was an all around ...

Kool Jo
Aunt Fancy
confusedandalone
2 years ago
First
 Next
 
 
 


Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/search/?q=sda+church&cursor=False%3ACqMECp0BCoAB_7_iZZBgAAAA9w3vihT_6OqNjIGWkYuajJCZi9KWkZzelZqXkImel4zSiJaLkZqMjNGckJL_AHRtoKCZi4ygoP8AXZ6Pj5qRmJaRmv8Ac3RtlpGbmof_AF2rkI-WnP8Ac3Rtm5CcoJab_wBdzs7Ix87I_wBzf87OyMfOyP8A__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





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Are Seventh-Day Adventists a better Church to belong to than being a JW
/  





 

Are Seventh-Day Adventists a better Church to belong to than being a JW
by jwfacts 8 years ago 57 Replies latest 2 years ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 »
 5
10
20
jwfacts
jwfacts 8 years ago

A lot of exJWs need an answer to "where else to go?" and some people seem to need to belong to an organization.
Doing some research on answers.yahoo.com I noticed that both JWs and Mormons come in for a lot of criticism for being manipulative cults. However, Seventh-day Adventists receive some great comments. They are very communal, provide great charities, education and schools.
Would it be a good recommendation to look into joining the SDA's next time i am asked "where else is better?"
 
prophecor
prophecor 8 years ago

I've ran into their community outreach program once while here in the city. Young people who were lovingly and willingly passing out sandwiches and hot soup to the homeless ( myself included ) last year. These young ones were not counting time, but were active participants in attempting to assist people amidst thier struggles, along with passing out thier literature, if that was what you wanted. I was totally moved by thier seemingly honest desire to serve the needs of the community. Socially as well as spiritually. I would offer that as a suggestion, at least as an alternative.
 
darth frosty
darth frosty 8 years ago

I could be over reading the situation. But, most of the profound and infamous cult leaders of the 20th century had either roots or ties to the seventh day adventist. Just something to think about.
 
jwfacts
jwfacts 8 years ago

most of the profound and infamous cult leaders of the 20th century had either roots or ties to the seventh day adventist
Ties at least to the Second Adventist Movement. There is a definite problem with the SDA's eschatology that puts them in a similar basket to the JWs. Apocalyptic, end-of-the-world religions cannot be that healthy as such a concept is perfect for breeding cult hysteria.
As prophecor mentions, they do genuinely good works. For me personally, nothing could be better than being freed from any sort of religious manipulation. I guess the SDAs are a step in the right direction, but maybe not quite far enough.
 
Vernon Williams
Vernon Williams 8 years ago

My wife's aunt and her kids are SDA....really great people....very kind....
Is the SDA "better" than the JW's?
Terminal jock itch is "better" than the JW's.....
V
 
ozziepost
ozziepost 8 years ago

jwfacts:
Good question and rather timely downunder. You see, it surprises me that downunder the christian 'mob' seem to be blind to seeing what is wrong with 'em! I'm speaking of th evangelicals here, who I would have thought would be holding firmly to their own code, yet they smile when the SDA's are mentioned and simply affirm that they are just another denomination.
That's so much BS and they know it! Yet they would rather vilify the Dubs and the Mormons. In my book, if it's wrong, it's wrong.
Typical of these blind responses is this one from Vernon Williams above,
My wife's aunt and her kids are SDA....really great people....very kind....
Don't people say that of the dubs? Yet their 'niceness' belies the evil they represent. Sorry, that argument doesn't wash.
BTW there were many people who thought Hitler was 'nice' too. That didn't make him good though.
 
Vernon Williams
Vernon Williams 8 years ago

Oz,
Blind response?
Hardly blind....it was an observation of one family group...the comment delt more with the cousins than the SDA...
The SDA as with the Witnessess and every other sect that deal with a "sola scriptura" foundation are, in my opinion, in error. They contain damaging ideas in regard to Salvation.
I would, based on my study and experience, not term the SDA a "cult" however, they are border line..the JWs are fully cult along with the Mormans.
With you in this Journey....despite the slightly "tart" comment of yours, above....
V
 
Hortensia
Hortensia 8 years ago

well, it's all religion, and religion is, as we've heard before, a snare and a racket. I'd advise someone looking for somewhere else to go try education which teaches critical thinking. Go get an education, learn to think, find out what's going on in the world. Quit asking other people to point out the path for you, you are just shifting from one kind of blindness to another because you aren't taking personal responsibility.
 
oldflame
oldflame 8 years ago

Listen SDA's are a cult too. Look it up ! you have internet. Top three on the list are JW, Mormon, & SDA's
They believe that their way into heaven souly depends on you worshiping the Sabbath on Saturdays. They also believe that eating pork is a sin.

I was married to one !
 
ozziepost
ozziepost 8 years ago

G'day V,
I don't think my comments were that the SDAs are a cult; I was addressing the question which is "are they no better than being a JW?" and on that basis I commented.
I repeat, mainstream christians seem to me (see, I observe too! ) to be just as blind to the error found in the SDAs as they are in the Dubs or the Mormons.
Part of that blind response is to be misled by their smiling faces or their conditional "love".
In the hell hole of Pol Pot's Cambodia, there were examples of peasants being seduced by his winsome smile. (See the book "The Pol Pot Regime" written by historian Ben Kiernan) We all know what happened later!
My point is that tyrants portray themselves as genial benefactors and our being aware of this should guide us in how we viewgroups or organisations.
So, it matters not one hoot how friendly and pleasant are the SDA relatives. Yes, Mrs Ozzie and I have had friendly relations with SDA people too, but it's quite irrelevant. It's whether the code of belief is valid is what matters.
My concern is that searching people may simply be jumping from "the frying pan into the fire" by leaving the dubs and then joining up with some other controlling and/or exclusive group.
Cheers, Ozzie
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
KiddingMe
Police: Teen killed in N.Y. church assault wanted out
by KiddingMe 6 months ago
OrphanCrow
The Jehovah's Witnesses, the Royal Commission and the Catholic Church
by OrphanCrow 8 months ago
Defianttruth
Help to build a "Guide to Your New Faith"
by Defianttruth 2 months ago
JakeM2012
The extent that desperate cults will go to keep control of their youth
by JakeM2012 5 months ago
mtwtf
Misleading The Australian Royal Commission
by mtwtf 8 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/150027/seventh-day-adventists-better-church-belong-being-jw






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Are Seventh-Day Adventists a better Church to belong to than being a JW
/  





 

Are Seventh-Day Adventists a better Church to belong to than being a JW
by jwfacts 8 years ago 57 Replies latest 2 years ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 »
 5
10
20
barry
barry 8 years ago

Barnhouse and Martin wrote a book called the kingdom of the cults. Barnhouse and Martin in the 1950s met with many theologins during this time and spent hundreds of hours studying SDA material to determine the truth obout doctrines of the SDA church.
As a result of all of this the SDA church wrote a book called 'Questions on Doctrine' following a format of a question by evangelicals and an answer as to what the Adventist position is. At the same time Barnhouse and Martin wrote a book called the truth about Seventh day Adventists. Both books were sold in Adventist book stores and evangelical book stores. The result of all of this study is Barnhouse and Martin put out a statement saying SDAs are are truly christians forming part of the body of Christ and orthodox on central doctrins and they are herodox on some lesser doctrins.
There is a large sector of the SDA church that beleive Questions on Doctrine is heracy that have a large following in the church led by a theologin in America Pastor Andreson and in Australia a lay preacher called Bob Brinsmead led the awakening movement.These people all still remained church members but fought what they beleived the church was apostate. These people and there beleifs still exist in the church today and are what ?I would say are in some ways cultic.
In one SDA church we did have some JW studies become members of the SDA church and the reason they did become members is because they beleived after visiting other churches in the area they felt more comfortable at our bible study than anywhere else because they felt they could speak very freely and there opinions wouldnt be offensive to anyone there.
This openess is a two way sword because when Barnhouse and Martin studied SDAisn they found both trinitarian doctrin and Arian doctrine both with the church logo on it comming out of the churches publishing houses . The official SDA teaching is the trinity doctrine. Barry
 
ozziepost
ozziepost 8 years ago

G'day barry,
How's it down there? warm up here.
Anyway, i think you've illustarted the danger of labels.
IMO if a person identifies as a label rather than a belief system i.e. christian, then we have cause to question.
Cheers, ozzie
 
Junction-Guy
Junction-Guy 8 years ago

I dont know much about the SDA's, but I highly doubt they are as controlling and manipulative as JW's.
How many things are forbidden in SDA vs. JW's?
Are the SDA children allowed to participate in school sports and other activities?
Are they allowed to celebrate holidays and birthdays?
Is college education discouraged?
 
barry
barry 8 years ago

Gday Aussie warm here too but the dams are now nearly 50% so we might be able to water our lawns soon.
Gday Junction -Guy, The SDAs do all the things a JW shouldnt, they would all just now be taking down there christmas trees, They encourage college and even have there own colleges for higher education. They celebrate birthdays participate in sports and salute the flag. Some dont vote or join the military while others do join the military and vote.

5marme
 
Junction-Guy
Junction-Guy 8 years ago

Well that answers my question. I guess they would be a good alternative to the JW's---hell, just about anything would be a better alternative to the JW's.

So how strict are the SDA's on shunning? Do they try to lie and cover up things like the Watchtower?
 
jgnat
jgnat 8 years ago

The SDA's are very strict about their doctrine interpretation. They have conventions over modifying small points of doctrine. For this quality, I rate them above the JW's in strict observance to bible interpretation. Not that this is always a good thing...
In our divorce recovery group was a former SDA pastor. His wife divorced him. Divorce means automatic removal from office. This poor man lost his marriage, lost his vocation, lost his religion in one fell swoop. Never have I met a man more devastated by his loss. He found love later, but it was outside the SDA.
The Seventh Day Adventists are one group who statistically live longer than the general population. They made the National Geographic issue on ageing. Most agree that their dietary restrictions are a major contributing factor. So eat like a SDA and you might live until you are a hundred. http://news.adventist.org/data/2001/0995375716/index.html.en
 
barry
barry 8 years ago

SDAs dont shun and dont dissfellowship or excommunicate. The most a local church can do is ask you to leave if you were to dissrupt there services.
I think the SDAs do ntry to cover things up about there early history.
I think you are right the JWs may be one of the worst.
 
Junction-Guy
Junction-Guy 8 years ago

Well from what it sounds like, they dont seem very cult like.
I doubt I could follow their dietary restrictions, but then again that would be a very small price to pay considering you have much more freedom as an SDA than a JW.
 
*summer*
*summer* 8 years ago

There is no "better" religion, as they are all man-made.
Some may appear shinier on the surface.
But start scratching, and you will soon find cracks in the foundations.
1Corinthians 7:23 You were bought with a price; stop becoming slaves of men.
 
barry
barry 8 years ago

jgnat,
A pastor does have to follow the churches teachings because the church pays his wages and retirement fund. When Barnhouse and Martin studied Adventist doctrine in the 50s they presented the Adventist theologins with a suitcase full of conflicting statements all with the church logo on them and they threatened to label the SDA a cult because of the diversity. The SDA theologins said they would clean things up and were supprised at there findings
A church member has no restrictions on how he may interpret the bible.
Both church members and ministers dont get disfellowshiped. They did dissfellowship before the year 2000 but didnt shun even then.
The SDA church does have reccomendations concerning diet which is followed by less than half of church membership.
When my father visited us for xmas the other week we had turkey for xmas dinner. My dad is mostly a vegetatian we arent vegetarian at all.
For me SDAism is another denomination no better or worse than another
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
a lot of exjws need an answer to "where else to go?
" and some people seem to need to belong to an organization.
doing some research on answers.yahoo.com i noticed that both jws and mormons come in for a lot of criticism for being manipulative cults.



Related Topics
KiddingMe
Police: Teen killed in N.Y. church assault wanted out
by KiddingMe 6 months ago
OrphanCrow
The Jehovah's Witnesses, the Royal Commission and the Catholic Church
by OrphanCrow 8 months ago
Defianttruth
Help to build a "Guide to Your New Faith"
by Defianttruth 2 months ago
JakeM2012
The extent that desperate cults will go to keep control of their youth
by JakeM2012 5 months ago
mtwtf
Misleading The Australian Royal Commission
by mtwtf 8 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/150027/seventh-day-adventists-better-church-belong-being-jw?page=2&size=10






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Are Seventh-Day Adventists a better Church to belong to than being a JW
/  





 

Are Seventh-Day Adventists a better Church to belong to than being a JW
by jwfacts 8 years ago 57 Replies latest 2 years ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 »
 5
10
20
Mulan
Mulan 8 years ago

Very funny question................my husband's family were 7th Day Adventists before becoming JW's. They found the similarities amazing, except Adventists really encourage higher education.
I think the main attraction to the witnesses for my mother in law, was that she could drink coffee again, and eat bacon.
They used to not celebrate holidays, but have gotten more mainstream the past 50 years and now do it openly.
But.............they are a high control religion..........maybe not a cult, but close to it. Mom had a young neighbor who was in the SDA and she felt horribly guilty for talking with Mom so much about religion, unless she was preaching her own religion. Hahhaa. They kept that young woman extremely busy.
 
barry
barry 8 years ago

Gday Mulan the SDAs have allways celebrated holidays from the 18oos one leader Ellen White reccomends placing a xmas tree inside the church over the holiday time. SDAs are strict about not drinking 99% would be t totalers.
 
jwfacts
jwfacts 8 years ago

Hi Barry, I haven't heard from you for a while, good to have an expert answering the thread.
99% would be t totalers
I guess that rules me out. No steak and beer, life hardly seems worth living.
I had a SDA preaching at my door last year. He was overlly strict and into all the SDA prophetic interpretation, seemed very much like a JW. However, he was young and new to the Church, and seemed to be an extremist. Just as with anything, there are the hardcore ones and the liberal ones.
Because SDA's do not disfellowship or shun, it allows more flexibility, and I think this is key to it not being a cult.
 
Chalam
Chalam 8 years ago

Hi,
I don't know much about the SDA but for sure the LDS/Mormons are another cult.
As most ex JWs are really hurt by the organization I would avoid seeking another too quickly.
Instead I would seek God. He is around, He is interested in you and He does want to talk.

So throw away the NWT (only the JWs use it), get any other copy of the Bible that takes your fancy and have a read.
You can even read online. I would start at John but take your choice. For sure don't start at Revelation of Leviticus :wink:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=1&version=31
Move right on to Acts and stuff or wherever takes your fancy.
Most of all ask God (He knows you are talking to Him and has many names so you don't need to use 'Jehovah') to send the Holy Spirit to enable you to understand the Bible.
1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Try reading and praying for a week or two and see if God doesn't respond.
Regards,
Stephen
 
Rabbit
Rabbit 8 years ago


Hi Barry, I haven't heard from you for a while, good to have an expert answering the thread.
99% would be t totalers
I guess that rules me out. No steak and beer, life hardly seems worth living
Well, my Texas county has one of their 'headquarters?' called a "conference" and a college and a hospital. They wield a tremendous amount of power and have been the main mover n' shaker that keeps this county DRY ! All the counties around enjoy the very good tax monies from those sales. There are a lot of good stores, restaurants, etc that won't move here, because of this.
They do 'good deeds' with their hospital. However, a very poor friend of ours broke their leg and was treated at the hospital. They were turned over to some real nasty bill collectors who harass them twice daily for several months, despite knowing their financial condition. Not very 'Christ-like', imo.
SDA are related to JW's with their 'end-of-the-world' doctrines which makes me 'throw-up-a-little-in-my-mouth' these days.
And...
I like beer, too And Jesus, reportedly liked -- wine. So, what's their problem ?
 
jwfacts
jwfacts 8 years ago

And Jesus, reportedly liked -- wine. So, what's their problem ?
It is quite obvious from the Bible that alcohol is acceptable. I can not understand the stance of SDA's, mormons, inglesi de Christi against it. It is a bit like JW's and gambling. The Bible discusses it and never condemns it, yet it is a d/f offense.
 
seven006
seven006 8 years ago


 
Chalam
Chalam 8 years ago

Hi,
The problem with all these false religions is that it turns into a set of rule following. This is clearly against Paul's teachings.
Maybe The Message will help.
Galatians 5 (The Message)
The Life of Freedom
 1 Christ has set us free to live a free life. So take your stand! Never again let anyone put a harness of slavery on you.
 2-3I am emphatic about this. The moment any one of you submits to circumcision or any other rule-keeping system, at that same moment Christ's hard-won gift of freedom is squandered. I repeat my warning: The person who accepts the ways of circumcision trades all the advantages of the free life in Christ for the obligations of the slave life of the law. 4-6I suspect you would never intend this, but this is what happens. When you attempt to live by your own religious plans and projects, you are cut off from Christ, you fall out of grace. Meanwhile we expectantly wait for a satisfying relationship with the Spirit. For in Christ, neither our most conscientious religion nor disregard of religion amounts to anything. What matters is something far more interior: faith expressed in love.
 13-15It is absolutely clear that God has called you to a free life. Just make sure that you don't use this freedom as an excuse to do whatever you want to do and destroy your freedom. Rather, use your freedom to serve one another in love; that's how freedom grows. For everything we know about God's Word is summed up in a single sentence: Love others as you love yourself. That's an act of true freedom. If you bite and ravage each other, watch out—in no time at all you will be annihilating each other, and where will your precious freedom be then?
 16-18My counsel is this: Live freely, animated and motivated by God's Spirit. Then you won't feed the compulsions of selfishness. For there is a root of sinful self-interest in us that is at odds with a free spirit, just as the free spirit is incompatible with selfishness. These two ways of life are antithetical, so that you cannot live at times one way and at times another way according to how you feel on any given day. Why don't you choose to be led by the Spirit and so escape the erratic compulsions of a law-dominated existence?
 19-21It is obvious what kind of life develops out of trying to get your own way all the time: repetitive, loveless, cheap sex; a stinking accumulation of mental and emotional garbage; frenzied and joyless grabs for happiness; trinket gods; magic-show religion; paranoid loneliness; cutthroat competition; all-consuming-yet-never-satisfied wants; a brutal temper; an impotence to love or be loved; divided homes and divided lives; small-minded and lopsided pursuits; the vicious habit of depersonalizing everyone into a rival; uncontrolled and uncontrollable addictions; ugly parodies of community. I could go on.
 This isn't the first time I have warned you, you know. If you use your freedom this way, you will not inherit God's kingdom.
 22-23But what happens when we live God's way? He brings gifts into our lives, much the same way that fruit appears in an orchard—things like affection for others, exuberance about life, serenity. We develop a willingness to stick with things, a sense of compassion in the heart, and a conviction that a basic holiness permeates things and people. We find ourselves involved in loyal commitments, not needing to force our way in life, able to marshal and direct our energies wisely.
 23-24Legalism is helpless in bringing this about; it only gets in the way. Among those who belong to Christ, everything connected with getting our own way and mindlessly responding to what everyone else calls necessities is killed off for good—crucified.
 25-26Since this is the kind of life we have chosen, the life of the Spirit, let us make sure that we do not just hold it as an idea in our heads or a sentiment in our hearts, but work out its implications in every detail of our lives. That means we will not compare ourselves with each other as if one of us were better and another worse. We have far more interesting things to do with our lives. Each of us is an original.
For more of The Message see here
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=2&version=65
Regards,
Stephen
 
Cautious Dove
Cautious Dove 8 years ago

I've not spoken with many SDAs but every one I have chatted with has been very polite and alot more reasonable than most of the JWs I have known over the years. What struck me was that they are quite open to acknowledge that others are good, spiritual people even if they are not SDAs. Having said that, they do feel that they are the only true religion and that any good people will ultimately join them (much like the JWs). They also get hung up on dates and chronology, although one I spoke to was quite a free thinker and admitted that there were ones among the SDAs that wanted to see certain things reformed. Ironically, of the 28 (?) principle teachings that SDAs hold, I believe pretty much all of them. But would I join their church ? No, because JWs have put me completely off the idea of "belonging" to any organisation other than the body of Christ.
 
jgnat
jgnat 8 years ago

Chalam, you are preaching too loud. I can't hear you.
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
a lot of exjws need an answer to "where else to go?
" and some people seem to need to belong to an organization.
doing some research on answers.yahoo.com i noticed that both jws and mormons come in for a lot of criticism for being manipulative cults.



Related Topics
KiddingMe
Police: Teen killed in N.Y. church assault wanted out
by KiddingMe 6 months ago
OrphanCrow
The Jehovah's Witnesses, the Royal Commission and the Catholic Church
by OrphanCrow 8 months ago
Defianttruth
Help to build a "Guide to Your New Faith"
by Defianttruth 2 months ago
JakeM2012
The extent that desperate cults will go to keep control of their youth
by JakeM2012 5 months ago
mtwtf
Misleading The Australian Royal Commission
by mtwtf 8 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/150027/seventh-day-adventists-better-church-belong-being-jw?page=3&size=10






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Are Seventh-Day Adventists a better Church to belong to than being a JW
/  





 

Are Seventh-Day Adventists a better Church to belong to than being a JW
by jwfacts 8 years ago 57 Replies latest 2 years ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 »
 5
10
20
bavman
bavman 8 years ago

I have seen ex-seventh day adventists discussion boards much like the one we are on that rail against their former religion. In that way it is much the same as mormons and witnesses. I don't have any desire to go to a sda church but I would say it is better than the jw religion in that they can vote, join the military, get involved in after school activities...however they are not supposed to drink alcohol. They still are too fundamentalist in there beliefs for my taste.

That being said, I do have seventh-day adventist relatives who have been very kind to me since I left the borg sort of a replacement family to some extent. They don't seem to mind what religion anyone comes from and don't like how pushy witnesses are. They don't seem to mind that I don't go to church or that I refuse to say a prayer when asked at their mealtimes either. See my experience at the below link:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/137526/1.ashx
 
RR
RR 8 years ago

The SDA church have had their share of problems like the Society. There have been numerous schisms in the groyup from its inception. The Church was originall a second adventist church, then were influence by the Seventh Day Baptist. After the death of Ellen White, a schism occurred. The Seventh Day Adventist Church and the Reform Seventh Day Adventist Church, both went trinitarian. There are smaller groups that are not.
They of course meet on Saturdays ALL day and observe the LAW as well as its diets. So unless you're willing to meet on Saturdays and eat kosher foods and dress a specific way. this may not be for you.
RR
 
Scully
Scully 8 years ago

As Jim Penton was wont to say, JWs and SDAs are "pups from the same bitch".
They have the commonality and shared history of being derived from the Adventist/Millerite movement.
jwfacts opened the thread with the following statement:
A lot of exJWs need an answer to "where else to go?" and some people seem to need to belong to an organization.
Just keep in mind that the question that Peter asked of Jesus was not "where else shall we go?" but "whom shall we go away to?" (John 6:68), which implies that belonging to an organization is not a requirement.
Ultimately, a person has to feel confident in their own choices and be responsible for the outcomes of those choices. Subjective opinions and objective comparisons are a good barometer for making informed choices, however, it's not always easy for an individual to wade through all that information and figure out what's what. I've offered what I thought was fairly tame information on JWs on other discussion boards, only to be accused of "having an axe to grind", simply because I told the whole story, rather than the Sanitized for Public Consumption™ version that JWs prefer.
Just my opinion, but going from one dysfunctional belief system to another is like jumping from the frying pan into the fire.
 
barry
barry 8 years ago

As a third generation Adventist I would like to some perspective into SDAism.
Within SDAism broardly speaking there a two groups the first being the traditional Adventistis. This group is cultic with there doctrins as they hold to older interpretations that came from the great dissapointement such as the 1844 investigative doctrine as well as other cultic doctrins. The reason I mention the 1844 doctrine is because of the heracy of perfectionism. Traditional Adventists beleive they will acheive absolute perfection before the second comming. So to a Traditional Adventist being saved is presumption because they would say only with absolute perfection they could claim such a state. This is the group that oposed Questions on doctrine since the 50s. This group also beleive that christ had a sinful human nature and that beleif also contributes to there perfectionism. Websites against SDAism are targeting the beleifs of this group.
The second group is what I would call the evangelicals and are supported by the scholars of the church. This group rejects the 1844 perfectionistic interpretations of the former group and accepts the protestant beleif od righteousness by faith.. This group is accepting of other christians as the body of christ.
So for anyone out there wanting to find a church home I could only reccommend an Adventist church that primarily is guided by people of the second group. The other alternative is to look for a group that does teach the protestant gospel. As Ive said Ive always been an Adventist but in may younger days I used to go with my friends to the Baptist church and went to school scripture lessons with the Anglicans and Prespetarians which I found OK to. I find it strange that people here sometimes favour non denominational groups. Some of these groups may be cultic also and sometimes they are groups that have broken away because of there fanaticism.
Buy cultic I mean a system of beleif that departs from traditioal christianity. I realise cult could also mean a high control group.
 
DaCheech
DaCheech 8 years ago

one of my customer was one:
he was a big talker, and he tried to recruit, he even tried to get me to donate $$$$.
after 1 year of dealing with him, he moved residence.......... he left $500 on his tab, unpaid!
 
barry
barry 8 years ago

Gday Da Cheech, Maybe youre friend wasnt a perfectionist. MAybe perfectionists have some good qualitys too.
 
DaCheech
DaCheech 8 years ago

maybe, I can give his old address, and you can have the elders look him up.
I do want the $ owed to me
 
*lost*
*lost* 2 years ago

bumped
 
Band on the Run
Band on the Run 2 years ago

I've found that religion is a matter of temperament and feeling comfortable than doctrinal questions. My denomination fits me. Sometimes I wonder if it all an accident that I found it. Other people will be drawn to other things. New York has many churches. In my quest for a good place, I attended plenty. My moon on a particular Sunday dictated where I attended. Walking two blocks can make a major difference in church personalities.
For some reason, I can't keep the SDA teachings in my head.
 
steve2
steve2 2 years ago

My best school friend was from a 7th-Day Adventist background, whilst I was raised a JW. We had a lot in common but also had some heated discussions over the Trinity (  ) and involvement in politics. Like a lot of young religious people, we really thought we knew everything and were out to prove the other wrong. Our paths parted as we got older, although we met again in our 20s and he disclosed he was no longer active in the Adventists and I was quietly in the process of extracting myself from the local kingdom hall. We no longer had much to argue over and the friendship fizzled.... but I think we had each done a hell of a lot of growing up and realizing the world was not as black and white as our respective religions had told us it was.
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
a lot of exjws need an answer to "where else to go?
" and some people seem to need to belong to an organization.
doing some research on answers.yahoo.com i noticed that both jws and mormons come in for a lot of criticism for being manipulative cults.



Related Topics
KiddingMe
Police: Teen killed in N.Y. church assault wanted out
by KiddingMe 6 months ago
OrphanCrow
The Jehovah's Witnesses, the Royal Commission and the Catholic Church
by OrphanCrow 8 months ago
Defianttruth
Help to build a "Guide to Your New Faith"
by Defianttruth 2 months ago
JakeM2012
The extent that desperate cults will go to keep control of their youth
by JakeM2012 5 months ago
mtwtf
Misleading The Australian Royal Commission
by mtwtf 8 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/150027/seventh-day-adventists-better-church-belong-being-jw?page=4&size=10






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Are Seventh-Day Adventists a better Church to belong to than being a JW
/  





 

Are Seventh-Day Adventists a better Church to belong to than being a JW
by jwfacts 8 years ago 57 Replies latest 2 years ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 »
 5
10
20
RubaDub
RubaDub 2 years ago

I wonder if SDA's turn gay if they masturbate like JW's do?
Rub a Dub
 
Calebs Airplane
Calebs Airplane 2 years ago



If this chart doesn't tickle your fancy, might I suggest this one in its stead? ...



or maybe this one suits your needs...




it's all delusional BS...



 
steve2
steve2 2 years ago

How to convince gullible "truth"-seekers you are knowledgeable and have divinely significant information to share:
◦Use detailed graphs and flowcharts and bolster your smooth commentary with confident interpretive statements derived from ambiguously symbolic ancient writings.
It works everytime!
 
LisaRose
LisaRose 2 years ago

My grandson is SDA. I don't know that much about them, but they don't seem as wacky as the JWs. He went to an SDA school all 12, they seem to have done well by him. Still I was sort of glad his plans to go to an SDA college fell through, it was way too expensive. Instead he is going into the air force.
 
steve2
steve2 2 years ago

Anyone who wants "inside" information on the "nice" SDA church is referred to the expose book par excellence, "The White Lie". I forget who authored it - a minister of the chruch who was defrocked I think and it was written around the mid 1980s - coincidentally about the time Ray Franz's book "Crisis of Conscience" created a few waves in the JW pond.
Just as people who do not much about JWs are inclined to view them as "lovely", so too those who do not know much about the SDAs can have a view of them as benign. Sure, the SDAs are not as overtly harsh and judgemental as JWs, but the "ruling system" within the SDA is fiercely protective of its doctrinal purity control and interpretation.
"The White Lie" is to the SDAs what "Crisis of Conscience" is to the JWs: An incredibly faith-disturbing but necessary read.
 
designs
designs 2 years ago

SDAs certainly push education unlike our former religion. I have many family members who are SDA, some like it others do not.
 
LisaRose
LisaRose 2 years ago

Yes, saying they are not as bad as the JWs is not really a recommendation, it's a pretty low bar to set.
I was a bit worried about my grandson, for a while he was looking at a theology degree. His long term goal was to have his own non denominational church someday, so it indicated to me he was not totally determined to be SDA, but still four years of college, then an advanced degree that's a lot of indictrination. Neither of his parents are practicing SDA, he was influenced by his other grandma. I am hoping the Air Force will give him exposure to people with other viewpoints. My daughter wonders where she went wrong, lol.
 
sarahsmile
sarahsmile 2 years ago

I joined the SDA years ago but walked away for the same reasons. Ellen White is no prophet just made up by a group of men.
Crazy writings EllenWhite Estate is on line.
Also many do not know they believe Jesus was Michael it in their book. Ekks! And they believe Jesus is Jehovah.
On a positive note, they are very nice and do more for their children. Nice group of people.
When I left over disagreement of doctrine they called and wanted me to come back any time! JW never treated me as nice.
 
barry
barry 2 years ago

Just to update about the church. The SDAs now have female ministers and is going well.
Recently the SDAs held a summit on sexuality in Cape Town in South Africa. 350 SDA church leaders attended including pastors academics and human services experts.
As a result there is a proposed guidelines to deny membership to its practicing LGBT members. However within the denomination decisions about church membership are made by the local congregation so it will be interestinghow this works out.
The LGBT community has hit back with a video.
www.wearesdas.com
 
barry
barry 2 years ago

My family and I are now Anglican but I still like to read spectrum magazine to keep updated on how the church SDA is progressing
 

«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
a lot of exjws need an answer to "where else to go?
" and some people seem to need to belong to an organization.
doing some research on answers.yahoo.com i noticed that both jws and mormons come in for a lot of criticism for being manipulative cults.



Related Topics
KiddingMe
Police: Teen killed in N.Y. church assault wanted out
by KiddingMe 6 months ago
OrphanCrow
The Jehovah's Witnesses, the Royal Commission and the Catholic Church
by OrphanCrow 8 months ago
Defianttruth
Help to build a "Guide to Your New Faith"
by Defianttruth 2 months ago
JakeM2012
The extent that desperate cults will go to keep control of their youth
by JakeM2012 5 months ago
mtwtf
Misleading The Australian Royal Commission
by mtwtf 8 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/150027/seventh-day-adventists-better-church-belong-being-jw?page=5&size=10






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Are Seventh-Day Adventists a better Church to belong to than being a JW
/  





 

Are Seventh-Day Adventists a better Church to belong to than being a JW
by jwfacts 8 years ago 57 Replies latest 2 years ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 »
5
10
20
villagegirl
villagegirl 2 years ago

I attended the Saturday Sabbath meeting of the Seventh Day Adventists
and found them to be very kind, non judgemental, and very pro-food.
They serve a potluck lunch, eat organic and are mostly vegetarian, but
they do not condemn meat eaters but they do avoid pork and follow some
Jewish dietary restrictions. They are very big on education, on their children
becoming doctors and nurses and any other profession and they run hospitals
and univerities and clinic and do overseas misiions to build housing , put in wells
and provide medical care. They also have a very touching custom of washing
each other's feet, its in imitation of what Jesus did, wash his disciples feet.
The family I knew, grew their own vegetables, made their own clothes and
went on long walks on the Sabbath. They were excellant parents and good friends.
Ex-Jehovah's witnesses will feel very at home with their doctrines and philosophy
without the mean parts of the WT beliefs and - women are very much respected
since their prophet is a woman !!! Yeah
 
LisaRose
LisaRose 2 years ago

My grandson went on missions to Mexico to build churches, that was a wonderful experience for him. He grew up to be a very well behaved and loving person and I think some if it was the religion. I do think he got a decent education, with only fifty in his graduating class, everyone knew everyone, many of the students were together from kindergarten as he was, it was very different from going to a large public school, much more personal, he was quite popular. The youth pastor did a lot of mentoring which sparked his interest in the ministry. I don't think his SDA experience hurt him in any way, I just don't know enough about the religion to recommend it. Possibly for someone who wants something similar tothe JWs without the more extreme beliefs, it could be a good fit. Every religion has some odd beliefs, that's for sure.


 
steve2
steve2 2 years ago

SDAs are "profood"?! Only if it's vegetarian.
 
barry
barry 2 years ago

Here is a movie that got to the higher ups. It was shown to many congregations throughout the world



 
steve2
steve2 2 years ago

Thanks Barry. Must watch this when I am home. BTTT
 
sd-7
sd-7 2 years ago


A lot of exJWs need an answer to "where else to go?" and some people seem to need to belong to an organization.
Then they need to check their premises. If they're still asking that question, then they probably still haven't shaken the indoctrination of the WT. It was never meant to be about belonging to some specific group--that's what the WT wanted people to buy into. It was supposed to be about the relationship with Jesus and his Father.
On the other hand, if one chooses to be involved with a group, well, best to learn about cults first and then do some research on any groups you're interested in. I can't see any good reason to go with Adventists, based on even a cursory perusal of their basic information. One can do good works without religion being involved, after all. And a religion that happens to do good works is not by definition necessarily honorable. Would the same people do the same works if there were no God involved? Important question, if you ask me.
But really, is it that hard to find a group better than JWs? Probably not. I wouldn't recommend the SDAs just based on the belief system, it just sounds suspect to me. Whether or not there is any destructive influence being used on its members, I wouldn't know about that.
--sd-7
 
LV101
LV101 2 years ago

SDA's believe in the trinity and are fast growing. They are not a scum religion like Watchtower. They are one of the "blue" zones on the earth as far as longevity. The Loma Linda community in southern California is rated #2 in the world for longevity. They have an incredible hospital called Loma Linda in the Redlands, Ca. area. Big on education - especially the medical field. Compared to the JW religion it's perfect.
I have friends that live in that area and think extremely highly of SDA members and have many good friendships. I told my friends they're closely related to JW's in their beliefs and they comment they don't care - they're the nicest, best, people. Have another friend working on her doctorate there and she's mainstream xtian and all she talks about now is the SDAs and their great mental/physical health. Probably that one day off a week to rest/regroup doesn't hurt. They are very conscientious about their exercise - many in that area are marathon runners. As far as I know they don't look down on people of other religion like the Watchtower cult.
 
barry
barry 2 years ago

Here is a video of a traditional SDA comments about the SDA doctrine of the investigative judgement which is sort of like the 1914 JW doctrine. He shows a video of Desmond Ford a contempory of Ray Franz. Please note Desmond Ford is speaking in a SDA church 28 years after his sacking. I believe it is a university church. Des is an evangelical as you might think and he has a good theology in my opinion. Des is also regarded as an apostate by some SDAs



 

«
 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
a lot of exjws need an answer to "where else to go?
" and some people seem to need to belong to an organization.
doing some research on answers.yahoo.com i noticed that both jws and mormons come in for a lot of criticism for being manipulative cults.



Related Topics
KiddingMe
Police: Teen killed in N.Y. church assault wanted out
by KiddingMe 6 months ago
OrphanCrow
The Jehovah's Witnesses, the Royal Commission and the Catholic Church
by OrphanCrow 8 months ago
Defianttruth
Help to build a "Guide to Your New Faith"
by Defianttruth 2 months ago
JakeM2012
The extent that desperate cults will go to keep control of their youth
by JakeM2012 5 months ago
mtwtf
Misleading The Australian Royal Commission
by mtwtf 8 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/150027/seventh-day-adventists-better-church-belong-being-jw?page=6&size=10





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Are Jehovah's Witnesses an Offshoot of the SDA?
/  





 

Are Jehovah's Witnesses an Offshoot of the SDA?
by Eugene Shubert 12 years ago 13 Replies latest 12 years ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20
Eugene Shubert
Eugene Shubert 12 years ago

It seems that many people believe that Jehovah's Witnesses are an offshoot of the Seventh-day Adventist church. I've read many claims of this and wonder what the actual relationship is, if any.
 
little witch
little witch 12 years ago


Yes, they are.
Begin your internet search with "Millerite Movement"
 
Mulan
Mulan 12 years ago


When I was first doing my research on whether it was really "the truth", I was at the library, in the religion section. A very large book on religion had a section on Adventism. Jehovah's witnesses were in that section. I was confused, until it was cleared up for me.
All it means is that they believe in the second Advent of Christ...............he is coming again, visible or invisible, according to the teachings of your church. I think their origins were about the same time, and maybe some of the people starting groups moved from one to the other. It is not an offshoot though.
There are lots of Adventist religions by the way.
 
Joyzabel
Joyzabel 12 years ago

Lloyd Barry said "we got our dates from the Adventist"
 
Euphemism
Euphemism 12 years ago


Russell was an adventist before he founded the Bible Students. His early influences (e.g. George Storrs and Nelson Barbour... you'll find info about them in the WT and the Proclaimers book) were also adventists. And a lot of his early teachings (the invisible advent of Christ, conditional immortality, and his chronological methods) were all current among Adventists at the time.
For some good background info on the influence of the Adventists on Russell, read the first chapter of C. O. Jonsson's Gentile Times Reconsidered, and also Jim Penton's Apocalypse Delayed.
 
Mulan
Mulan 12 years ago

Not necessarily Seventh Day Adventists though. As I said before, Adventism is a type of religion.
 
AlanF
AlanF 12 years ago

Jehovah's Witnesses are not an offshoot of the Seventh-Day Adventists, but are more of an amalgam of what C. T. Russell called "Second Adventists" and bits and pieces from other religions that Russell liked. The SDA's started around 1848 when some of William Miller's followers went off on their own and formed a new religion. Many others of Miller's followers drifted along and formed loose quasi-religions who called themselves "Adventists". It was from these -- not the SDA's -- that Russell got a lot of his information. Nelson Barbour was an Adventist and the biggest influencer of Russell, via "Bible chronology". Russell was even influenced by an Evangelical Lutheran preacher named Joseph Seiss. AlanF
 
fjtoth
fjtoth 12 years ago

Mulan is correct. [Edit: And so is AlanF.] JWs did not originate with the Seventh-Day Adventists. Charles Russell and his father were associated with a Second Adventist group. That is a movement that embraces not only the Seventh-Day Adventists and JWs, but also others such as the Church of God of Abrahamic Faith, the Christadelphians, the Advent Christian Church, the Free Bible Students, the Dawnites, the Worldwide Church of God, etc. While Russell can be identified as the founder of the Free Bible Students, Dawnites and JWs, the other groups did not necessarily spring from each other. Most of them descended independently from what was originally known as the Church of God movement that apparently started in England and came to America in the early 1800s and that blended with the Millerites in the 1830s and 1840s. While most were non-trinitarian when they began, some later accepted the Trinity. A major teaching among them is that Matthew 24 applies specifically to the time in which we are now living. Some of them started with an outstanding leader or spokesperson, such as Ellen White of the SDA, John Thomas of the Christadelphians, Charles Russell of the JWs, and Herbert Armstrong of the WWCOG.
 
jst2laws
jst2laws 12 years ago


Alan,
It is so nice not go digging the books out to respond to a thread like this. Hope you never get too tired of this.
And I'm glad your not the type that jumps in and says 'yeh, his was just an adventist' but you give a very balance view of Russell's many sources.
Steve
 
gumby
gumby 12 years ago


Heres a few tidbits to add to the 7th dayer's I copied and pasted cuz I'm a dumb bastard,
Doctrinally, Seventh-day Adventists are heirs of the interfaith Millerite movement of the 1840s. Although the name "Seventh-day Adventist" was chosen in 1860, the denomination was not officially organized until Ma y 21, 1863, when the movement included some 125 churches and 3,500 members.
Between 1831 and 1844, William Miller--a Baptist preacher and former army captain in the War of 1812--launched the "great second advent awakening" which eventually spread throughout most of the Christian world. Based on his study of the prophecy of Daniel 8:14, Miller calculated that Jesus would return to earth sometime between 1843 and 1844. Others within the movement calculated a specific date of October 22, 1844. When Jesus did not appear, Miller's followers experienced what became to be called "the great Disappointment."
Most of the thousands who had joined the movement, left it, in deep disillusionment. A few, however, went back to their Bibles to find why they had been disappointed. Soon they concluded that the October 22 date had indeed been correct. They became convinced that the Bible prophecy predicted not that Jesus would return to earth in 1844, but that He would begin at that time a special ministry in heaven for His followers. They still looked for Jesus to come soon, however, as do Seventh-day Adventists yet today.
Gumby
 

«
 1
 2
 »
 5
10
20




Share this topic






Related Topics
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo 2 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Another Trey Bundy Article on Reveal: "Jehovah’s Witnesses leaders say they don’t protect sexual abusers"
by AndersonsInfo 4 months ago
oppostate
Jehovah's Witnesses 'ordered destruction' of notes which could have been used during child sexual abuse inquiry
by oppostate 2 months ago
Watchtower-Free
Jehovah's Witnesses in Denmark targeting migrants
by Watchtower-Free 2 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Brownstoner: How the Jehovah’s Witnesses Acquired Some of Brooklyn’s Most Insanely Valuable Properties
by AndersonsInfo 2 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/62085/jehovahs-witnesses-offshoot-sda





Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home
/ Topics
/ Are Jehovah's Witnesses an Offshoot of the SDA?
/  





 

Are Jehovah's Witnesses an Offshoot of the SDA?
by Eugene Shubert 12 years ago 13 Replies latest 12 years ago   watchtower beliefs
«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20
Eugene Shubert
Eugene Shubert 12 years ago

Thanks everyone for clearing that up for me and for all those exceptional details.
 
mizpah
mizpah 12 years ago

I guess that it would be more correct to say they were "second cousins" once removed...LOL
 
A Paduan
A Paduan 12 years ago


Perhaps all these sects started in the 1800s as groupthink ways of alleviating the anglo guilt of occupying the new lands of those who were killed for it.
The "we're ok" necessity of the smartly dressed 'clean' godfearing (very much fearing now) anglo colonialist.
 
barry
barry 12 years ago

Being an SDA I just want to say gday to all my second cousins here. Barry
 

«
 1
 2
 »
5
10
20




Share this topic



Topic Summary
.
it seems that many people believe that jehovah's witnesses are an offshoot of the seventh-day adventist church.
i've read many claims of this and wonder what the actual relationship is, if any.



Related Topics
AndersonsInfo
Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!
by AndersonsInfo 2 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Another Trey Bundy Article on Reveal: "Jehovah’s Witnesses leaders say they don’t protect sexual abusers"
by AndersonsInfo 4 months ago
oppostate
Jehovah's Witnesses 'ordered destruction' of notes which could have been used during child sexual abuse inquiry
by oppostate 2 months ago
Watchtower-Free
Jehovah's Witnesses in Denmark targeting migrants
by Watchtower-Free 2 months ago
AndersonsInfo
Brownstoner: How the Jehovah’s Witnesses Acquired Some of Brooklyn’s Most Insanely Valuable Properties
by AndersonsInfo 2 months ago



Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/62085/jehovahs-witnesses-offshoot-sda?page=2&size=10






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home





Search 'sda church'
First
 Next
  changeling
4
Odd reaction...
by changeling in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 8 years ago
... the other day and she told me that our cousins who were raised SDA were no longer active in their church.

flipper
cluless
MissingLink
8 years ago
jwfacts
57
Are Seventh-Day Adventists a better Church to belong to than being a JW.
by jwfacts in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 8 years ago
A lot of exJWs need an answer to "where else to go?" and some people seem to need to belong to an organization.

sd-7
LV101
barry
2 years ago
WingCommander
5
4 JW families in my neighbourhood; no new tract delivered to anyone yet!
by WingCommander in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 9 years ago
They came off as cultish freaks, pushing fear inspiring literature under the guise of Jesus' church.

cruzanheart
joe_black
willyloman
9 years ago
Country Girl
6
How Many Great Disappointments Can There Be?
by Country Girl in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Scandals & Coverups
 10 years ago
Seventh-day Adventist Church historians writing about the morning of October 23 refer to a vision said to have been ...

Satanus
SirNose586
Gill
10 years ago
blondie
14
Comments You Will Not Hear at the 10-2-05 WT Study (Law of Love)
by blondie in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 11 years ago
Bunch is an SDA, Seventh Day Adventist.In the 1930s Taylor G. Bunch [1885-1969], an Adventist scholar, pastor, ...

stillajwexelder
Pistoff
Room 215
11 years ago
barry
4
Conscientious objection was it a factor in attracting you to the JWs.
by barry in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 11 years ago
In my own church many take a non combatancy or a concientious objector stand. Some go in as full combat though, ...

FairMind
upside/down
buffalosrfree
11 years ago
Eugene Shubert
13
Are Jehovah's Witnesses an Offshoot of the SDA?
by Eugene Shubert in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 12 years ago
It seems that many people believe that Jehovah's Witnesses are an offshoot of the Seventh-day Adventist church.

mizpah
A Paduan
barry
12 years ago
Dogpatch
13
Help? What Can I Do? - a response.
by Dogpatch in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 12 years ago
In the early days, his messages were a mix of orthodox Christianity, SDA teachings and then his own "new light" he ...

logansrun
Happythoughts
Dogpatch
12 years ago
expatbrit
20
William Miller & the long road to Apocalyps...
by expatbrit in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 14 years ago
One no longer had to belong to this state-church in order to exercise basic rights such as voting or ownership of ...

AlanF
Bangalore
barry
4 years ago
First
 Next
 
 
 


Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/search/?q=sda+church&cursor=False%3ACqMECp0BCoAB_7_gAAUgAAAA9w3wSUD_9tvHjIGWkYuajJCZi9KWkZzelZqXkImel4zSiJaLkZqMjNGckJL_AHRtoKCZi4ygoP8AXZ6Pj5qRmJaRmv8Ac3RtlpGbmof_AF2rkI-WnP8Ac3Rtm5CcoJab_wBdzcnGzsjI_wBzf83Jxs7IyP8A__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






Got it!
We use cookies to personalize content & ads, provide features and analyze traffic. We share data about site usage with social media, ad & analytics partners. More info





 src
Latest

Topics

Users
 
 


Welcome Visitor!
Sign up Sign in
Home







Welcome to the Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information
The biggest, busiest JW community & support discussion forum for Jehovah's Witnesses, those interested in JW.Org beliefs or the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society
×Close
Are you people 'The Watchtower'?
No - we're an independent community site offering support for both current and former Jehovah's Witnesses and anyone else who has been affected by the beliefs, doctrines and practices of the Jehovah's Witness religion as governed by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society (WTB&TS).
We are not affiliated with the WTB&TS in any way and we take your privacy and security very seriously doing our utmost to protect your identity and provide a friendly, tolerant and informative environment where you can ask questions, share information and make new friends. Membership is completely free and anonymous so why not join today!
Jehovah's Witnesses
Discuss anything Jehovah Witness, JW.org or WatchTower society related
Friends
Discuss anything Jehovahs Witness or WatchTower society related and meet new friends
 4,055,274 posts in  124,682 topics
Personal Experiences & Reunions
Lost touch with old friends from your old congregation? Find them here!
 255,060 posts in  11,833 topics
Best of Topics
Top 'best of' topics, articles and posts. First stop for new visitors.
 628 posts in  70 topics
Watchtower Society / JW.org
Watchtower or JW.org specific topics
Bible Research & Study Articles
Critical analysis of the WatchTower Bible & Tract Society publications and the bible
 322,122 posts in  16,574 topics
Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
What Jehovah's Witnesses believe and why they do what they do
 807,782 posts in  29,919 topics
Scandals & Coverups
Investigations into the WatchTower organisations United Nations (UN) involvement etc...
 114,170 posts in  5,645 topics
Child Abuse Issues
Child Molestation & Abuse Issues and other coverups
 70,144 posts in  4,043 topics
Blood, Medical Treatment & Depression
Discuss Blood and other Medical Treatment including Mental Health within the WatchTower society
 37,725 posts in  2,431 topics
Social
Social topics
Jokes & Humour
Share your funnies, jokes and humerous videos !
 58,016 posts in  5,988 topics
Entertainment
Entertainment: TV, Movies, Gaming, Art, Literature & Music
 85,329 posts in  5,943 topics
News & World Events
Current Affairs, current news and major world Events
 111,879 posts in  6,847 topics
Physical Activities
Sports, Exercise, Physical Activities and keeping fit
 15,999 posts in  1,037 topics
Family & Parenting
Discuss family issues: Kids, Teens, Parenting
 20,458 posts in  1,091 topics
Dating & Relationships
Dating, Relationships, Sex, Marriage
 47,258 posts in  1,845 topics
Forum Related
Forum related discussion
Forum News & Announcements
Important news or announcements about the Jehovahs Witness discussion forum
 8,476 posts in  293 topics
Suggestion Box
Tell us how we can improve things, share your ideas or just give us feedback on how we're doing
 1,725 posts in  122 topics
Technical Support
Get help here if you are having trouble using the forum
 2,820 posts in  318 topics
Links to related sites
Links to other Jehovah's Witness or WatchTower related sites
 130 posts in  29 topics


 
Share with others

103106


 


Community Guidelines

Posting Rules

Terms of Service

Privacy Policy

DMCA

Copyright © 2001-2015 Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum | JW.Org Community Information.
 


http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/