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Feeling Jealous of True Believers
by Naoscillator 12 hours ago 5 Replies latest 10 hours ago   jw experiences
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Naoscillator
Naoscillator 12 hours ago

What a simple life it is to be a true believer. The cocksureness of people who never for a moment question their core beliefs is something I have come to envy. It's altogether foreign, but it sure looks nice over on the other side.
Why do some people step into the void of uncertainty while others do everything in their power never to even go near it? I've seen JW's go to extremes to keep themselves pure of any disconfirming influences, some actually boast about not knowing what's going on in their own country. Is it an unconscious drive towards self-preservation and wholeness that pushes away or dismisses every little idea that doesn't fit? Or an actual sense of duty and reverence for "truth" even while acknowledging that that "truth" does not stand up to questioning and must be protected at all costs?
Sometimes I say "If only I had kept myself pure." Then again, I don't think I ever was. I think some people are hardwired to question continually and never close the book on what's true in their world.
 +3 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 12 hours ago

This is the state of mind which inspired the coined phrase "Ignorance is bliss".
It is impossible to continue in ignorance if one is inquisitive, studious or even tech savvy these days.
DY
 +1 / -0
FayeDunaway
FayeDunaway 12 hours ago

I could never be jealous of ignorance, even if it is 'bliss' and gives you that self satisfied feeling of knowing everything and being right all the time.
An elder told me that he stopped his subscription to national geographic because there was too much coverage of evolution stories and it was better to not look at them. So that's fine, keep denying science, keep your head in the sand so you can feel good about yourself and your backwards cult. But not me, and I don't admire it or envy it. I'm sure most people here are as you say...they keep questioning, keep observing, keep reading. And that is the difference.
 +3 / -0
Naoscillator
Naoscillator 12 hours ago

Good responses. I should note that the jealous feeling is fleeting and only comes when it feels like the 'unorthodox' information I have helped myself to over the years has gotten me into some sort of trouble.
Faye, that's the exact sort of thing that actually drives me up the wall. The new JW Broadcasting video series "A _____ist Explains His Faith" does not help and only illustrates the need for intellectual dishonesty for these people to continue as they are. What part of Evolution theory comments on whether or not life originates with God? That's right, it doesn't but the implications are unwelcome for believers.
 +1 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 12 hours ago

The pursuit of happiness happens in many ways. Many are just as happy, if not even more, not knowing stuff.
Clearly understandable, and nothing to get upset/angry/bitter about with those who choose religious ignorance.
Live and let live.😉
DY

DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 10 hours ago

What a simple life it is to be a true believer.
Red Pill or Blue Pill?
You obviously chose the Red Pill. Bad decision? Yes, if you wanted the "simple life" of the true believer.
Our lives can be affected enormously by many decisions we make.
Doc



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WT Resurrection Hope Absolutely Ridiculous As Illustrated In Their Publications
by JW_Rogue a day ago 39 Replies latest an hour ago   jw experiences
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JW_Rogue
JW_Rogue a day ago

Saw this while browsing through the Good News brochure:



Is it any wonder people aren't listening to JWs anymore? What an absolutely delusional scene! A 17th century sailor comes into the truth, shaves his beard (apparently beards will still be bad in the new order), and befriends a mandarin speaking Chinese man. LOL This picture sums up the new WT style, nothing is too ridiculous to say or illustrate. They are targeting those with child like intellects ready to believe anything and everything.
 +18 / -0
OnTheWayOut
OnTheWayOut a day ago
The hidden subliminal message is that all people who died before the Great Tribulation can have an opportunity to be resurrected and learn "the truth." So you all better stay in "the truth" in case the Great Tribulation comes in your lifetime, and then you can see those loved ones who died already. This message takes on more and more importance as everyone dies "in this system of things" when the Great Tribulation continues to delay.



 +6 / -0
prologos
prologos a day ago
not only the body, limited mind, but also the regalia will be faithfully reproduced. I wonder about the voice, is it a bass-tenor or a soprano, like a eunuch would have? good learner though instantly speaking mandarin? and lots of sailboats. but where are the sailplanes? doing aerobatics?
 +1 / -0
Esse quam videri
Esse quam videri a day ago
Let's get one thang strait. Those resurected folks are all go'in to be 'buck nekad'.

 +9 / -0
Village Idiot
Village Idiot a day ago
I remember illustrations of happy parents coming to greet their resurrected child clutching clothes in their hands with which to dress him. So, I wonder, are these resurrected ones going to pop in already clothed or will there be tailors in the New Order (tm) with just the right information required to get the recent arrivals dressed up according to their custom?
 +3 / -0
OneEyedJoe
OneEyedJoe a day ago
They drew a picture of it so it must be true!
 +8 / -0
NVR2L8
NVR2L8 a day ago
These illustrations are conceived so the JWs can visualize their hope but they're meaningless and strange for those outside the cult. Without an explanation a normal person wouldn't be able to figure it out.
 +3 / -0
prologos
prologos a day ago
Prologos: "--eunuchs--but where are the sailplanes? doing aerobatics? It is biblical! : "- those hoping in Jehovah (resurrection) will regain power (to live) They will mount up with wings like eagles.--" hot air (thermals) rising from wt.
 +2 / -0
LevelThePlayingField
LevelThePlayingField a day ago
I can't believe that they actually took the beard of that guy. For what reason?! There's not one good reason at all. Wait, yes there is, it serves the Watchtowers purpose.
 +4 / -0
Alive!
Alive! a day ago

So.....
A JW friend at her non JWs father's funeral ( none of her family are JWs) followed her non-JW siblings' heart felt speeches about their love for their Dad, Mother and family life at the funeral by saying that she can't wait to meet her Father in the resurrection, and that she has kept his golf clubs in happy anticipation of seeing him again and playing golf with Dad in the resurrection she went onto give a full on 'witness' - this in the presence of a grieving non JW family and in opposition to the direct desire of her non- JW Father that his funeral should be entirely secular.
I felt she absolutely trespassed and trampled over decency....just my take.
Nothing spiritual going on there - just material cravings.....strangely her 'moment' of glory in terms of giving a witness at her non JW s father funeral somehow failed to grab the attention of 'truth seekers'.
By the way, she isn't a nut case but a very able, high money earning professional.
Believe me....so crazy.
 +8 / -0

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WT Resurrection Hope Absolutely Ridiculous As Illustrated In Their Publications
by JW_Rogue a day ago 40 Replies latest 2 minutes ago   jw experiences
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Virran
Virran a day ago
Ansolutley insane. The old corps is coming back with near as new pirate clothes?? And then he needs to convert into modern day clothes? Why? Would Jehovah kill him if he didn't? Their god must be so shallow. Heck, if I had been dead and buried for hundreds and hundreds of years and get resurrected the last thing on my mind would be dress code.
 +3 / -0
OUTLAW
OUTLAW a day ago

........................................Image result for Watchtower logo
..................................................Image result for twisted fairy tales logo
.

..........After I Die.....I`ll Become a JW..
.....Then Talk to a Strange Chinese Guy..................................We Just Make Shit Up..

Who Won`t Understand a Word I`m Saying..............JW`s Will Believe Anything!......LOL!!..

.......Image result for 17th century sailor.............Image result for JW.org broadcasting
 +3 / -0
compound complex
compound complex a day ago

The newly risen man is loyally directing other resurrected ones to Jehovah's organization.
Somehow, I was never taught this heartwarming truth as a little boy when attending Methodist Sunday School in the 1950s. Back then, it was all about Jesus . . .
CoCo
 +4 / -0
Listener
Listener a day ago
There's going to be an awful lot of manufacturing of razors and costumes in the New Order......oh, and golf sets.
 +2 / -0
bafh
bafh a day ago

Can I just say I don't understand their obsession with facial hair? Supposedly God created humans with hair, all over, including their face. So, what is the big effing deal?
Sigh.

BAFH
 +4 / -0
sir82
sir82 20 hours ago

Awfully nice of Jehovah to sew up an 18th century naval uniform for him.
I wonder if they gave him the same rank?
Would be nice of them to promote him to captain or admiral or something before he is forced to shave his beard. Give him one day of happiness before he submits to the drudgery of doing virtually nothing other than conducting "Bible studies" for the next 900 years.

 +5 / -0
punkofnice
punkofnice 20 hours ago

Truly weird. Are the watchtower writers and artists tripping on something?
 +2 / -0
Alive!
Alive! 20 hours ago

Guess Pirates are kind of hip for kids...there was yet another illustration in a publication showing a child teaching a resurrected pirate somewhere ....darn, can't remember where it was....
See, stuff like this raises my awareness regarding 'selling' a faith, seeking to appeal to a kid's world - suppose a real pirate is more exciting.....they've used this character more than once...someone in the writing department thinks 'Pirates' sell the goods, appeals to kids....and they would be right.
So, even if you don't believe in Christ - you can see how this sure isn't about appealing to the heart re Christ....it's about adventure, The cool fun of meeting a pirate in the 'new system' -
And they sneer at Christendom........
Man, I'm tired.....just glad I don't feel compelled to deliver their Disney hype anymore, they cheapen the glory.
 +1 / -0
jookbeard
jookbeard 20 hours ago
the insanity continues , I wonder if the jw's who survived into the new world will be teaching these newly resurrected ones about the life in the "old world" where they covered up child abuse,allowed many many thousands to die for not accepting blood in medical emergencies,the amount of familes they destroyed through shunning,United Nations membership, gambling on the Stock Markets etc? oh of course they will all have their memories erased by anti matter !
 +5 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 19 hours ago
WELL SAID jookbeard!!
 +2 / -0

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Topic Summary
saw this while browsing through the good news brochure:.
is it any wonder people aren't listening to jws anymore?
what an absolutely delusional scene!



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WT Resurrection Hope Absolutely Ridiculous As Illustrated In Their Publications
by JW_Rogue a day ago 40 Replies latest 3 minutes ago   jw experiences
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Diogenesister
Diogenesister 19 hours ago

and lots of sailboats. but where are the sailplanes? doing aerobatics?
Do you remember, pro logos, that other barmy illustration?they are going to arrive gracefully in white sailing boats! Presumably he's telling that crowd of n'er do wells about his resurrection experience!
forget clawing their way out of the cold, hard earth butt naked and smelly as in my over active childhood imagination!
 +1 / -0
Darkknight757
Darkknight757 18 hours ago
21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them.
Genesis 3:21 | NIV
According to the bible, God will make clothes for everyone when they come back in the ressurection. No tailors needed. Whats cool is apparently God will continue his hatred for animals in the "New World" considering he made clothes out of skin back in Adumbs time!!!! So watch out you stupid animals, even in paradise God will kill you!!
 +3 / -0
Darkknight757
Darkknight757 18 hours ago
That is unless he makes those clothes of the foreskin of those he slaughters at the big A.🤔
 +2 / -0
prologos
prologos 17 hours ago
LevelThePlayingField: "I can't believe that they actually took the beard of that guy. They did not, his beard fell out by itself (resurrection chemo). A beard is a result of male hormones , and since in the resurrection there will no male or female , no marriage, even if initially a man would appear similar to as he died, to authenticate his personality, like the sailor and his taylor, all New World Raisers will settle in quickly to the "children of the resurrection". mold. No beard, no pubic hair, resurrection = no erection.
 +2 / -0
punkofnice
punkofnice 15 hours ago
the subliminal 'no beard' rule is evident(tm) in this lairy illustration. also, are they intimating they're converting China to the cult too? Wow, such expansion now taking place(tm).
 +1 / -0
pixel
pixel 15 hours ago


shaves his beard (apparently beards will still be bad in the new order)
I don't get this WT obsession with beards.

 +2 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 15 hours ago
Yes, the very concept of living forever falls apart with just a little speck of logical thinking....
 +1 / -0
Lostandfound
Lostandfound 14 hours ago
Resurrection seems to be a bit like arriving at an airport where befOre you are free to go you have to see customs, "anything to declare ..?" "no beards beyond this point"
 +2 / -0
Naoscillator
Naoscillator 13 hours ago
This illustration is in the brochure released at the 2012 convention. A Bethelite sister (who actually has a "good" job at Bethel) remarked, "oh, look. They made him shave." Interesting choice of words I thought.
 +2 / -0
moomanchu
moomanchu 13 hours ago

What's he doing with the toy sailboat in the pic with the group of people.
Describing how he died?
At least the bros don't have to wear ties in the new system.
 +1 / -0

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Topic Summary
saw this while browsing through the good news brochure:.
is it any wonder people aren't listening to jws anymore?
what an absolutely delusional scene!



Related Topics
Simon
Doing the Right Thing, Making a Choice (shunning)
by Simon 6 months ago
dubstepped
Life After Disassociation (or really leaving by any means)
by dubstepped a month ago
Defianttruth
Help to build a "Guide to Your New Faith"
by Defianttruth 2 months ago
new boy
Chapter 2 of the Novel "New Boy"
by new boy 7 days ago
cognitivedizzy
Hilarious Whatsapp message received - FIRST day after Big D
by cognitivedizzy 5 months ago



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WT Resurrection Hope Absolutely Ridiculous As Illustrated In Their Publications
by JW_Rogue a day ago 40 Replies latest 6 minutes ago   jw experiences
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ttdtt
ttdtt 13 hours ago
I'm just glad the Resurrected one came to his senses and cut his LONG SIDEBURNS!


 +1 / -0
Naoscillator
Naoscillator 13 hours ago
Also dig the fact that his appearance has only been updated to about 1970.
 +2 / -0
Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 13 hours ago

Just a peaceful, beautiful delusion.... What a nice daydream.😎
DY

Vidiot
Vidiot 12 hours ago


pixel - "I don't get this WT obsession with beards."
The WT leadership doesn't want their male membership to look too attractive. :smirk:
 +1 / -0
sparky1
sparky1 11 hours ago



Dr. Stephen Maturin: The seas are rough Captain. I hope there isn't much loss of life!
Captain Jack Aubrey: Where is your faith, man? There's always the resurrection! 
 +1 / -0
WingCommander
WingCommander 11 hours ago

For some reason, this young "Sailor" reminds me more of young Joseph Smith, AKA: The founder of Mormonism.


Diogenesister
Diogenesister 10 hours ago
Russell crowe isn't half the man our sailor is with those puny sideboards!!!!
 +1 / -0
Diogenesister
Diogenesister 10 hours ago

Talking about separated at birth, does anyone notice the resemblance between Russell Crowe and a young Ray Franze...definitely from the same tribe.
 +2 / -0
Darryl
Darryl 3 hours ago

How many witnesses are there in China? How many of those are going to make it through? Of course we all know
everyone who's currently a witness is not going to make it. I mean one month of inactivity say you miss 3 weeks of
meetings in a row, the big A comes during that time you're a goner. Anyway how many people have died in that
country over the years? Hundreds of millions? Over a billion? It's going to be quite a task for the 50,000 or so (if
that...I really don't have any idea but I'm thinking it's not that many) to witness to all those people.
Maybe Jehovah will allow the internet to stay intact in order to reach and teach all the resurrected ones.
Perhaps there will still be electricity and televisions...not 70 inch plasmas of course don't want the "friends" to be
too materialistic but maybe small TV's for the sole purpose of explaining rules and regulations and setting up a
mandatory meeting scheddule
 +4 / -0
brandnew
brandnew an hour ago

Wow.....clothes that last forever....!!!!😨😨😨
Must be made by Levis or something 😂😂😂


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saw this while browsing through the good news brochure:.
is it any wonder people aren't listening to jws anymore?
what an absolutely delusional scene!



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Simon
Doing the Right Thing, Making a Choice (shunning)
by Simon 6 months ago
dubstepped
Life After Disassociation (or really leaving by any means)
by dubstepped a month ago
Defianttruth
Help to build a "Guide to Your New Faith"
by Defianttruth 2 months ago
new boy
Chapter 2 of the Novel "New Boy"
by new boy 7 days ago
cognitivedizzy
Hilarious Whatsapp message received - FIRST day after Big D
by cognitivedizzy 5 months ago



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WT Resurrection Hope Absolutely Ridiculous As Illustrated In Their Publications
by JW_Rogue a day ago 40 Replies latest 6 minutes ago   jw experiences
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stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 6 minutes ago
Darryl:
Perhaps there will still be electricity and televisions...not 70 inch plasmas of course don't want the "friends" to be too materialistic but maybe small TV's for the sole purpose of explaining rules and regulations and setting up a mandatory meeting schedule.
Haha, yes, that sounds just like the TV screens as portrayed in Orwell's 1984! Just so big-brother can keep an eye on everyone at every time....


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saw this while browsing through the good news brochure:.
is it any wonder people aren't listening to jws anymore?
what an absolutely delusional scene!



Related Topics
Simon
Doing the Right Thing, Making a Choice (shunning)
by Simon 6 months ago
dubstepped
Life After Disassociation (or really leaving by any means)
by dubstepped a month ago
Defianttruth
Help to build a "Guide to Your New Faith"
by Defianttruth 2 months ago
new boy
Chapter 2 of the Novel "New Boy"
by new boy 7 days ago
cognitivedizzy
Hilarious Whatsapp message received - FIRST day after Big D
by cognitivedizzy 5 months ago



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A blog post on my 65th birthday
by JeffT a day ago 15 Replies latest 9 hours ago   jw friends
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JeffT
JeffT a day ago

Putting this out there for everybody.
http://pathologicallyintellectual.blogspot.com/
 +3 / -0
Cangie
Cangie a day ago

Happy Birthday, Jeff. I'm 65, too, and one of the people you referenced when you say that they expected things to have changed by now, so they delayed education, a secure career, and are paying for it now in retirement.
While this is not the most fun I've ever had, I still say it beats the alternative!


Mephis
Mephis a day ago
Happy birthday Jeff.
 +1 / -0
Diogenesister
Diogenesister a day ago
Jeff you have a deceptively simple but utterly engaging style ...as one of your most eminent literary countryman, Hemingway, had....there's a nice ego stroke for your 65th birthday😀!
 +2 / -0
gma-tired2
gma-tired2 a day ago
Happy Birthday Jeff

the comet
the comet a day ago
Happy birthday Jeff! I really reading your blog, looking forward to your novel.

wannaexit
wannaexit a day ago
Happy Birthday Jeff. Nice blog entry. Please keep us posted when more blog posts become available.


LevelThePlayingField
LevelThePlayingField a day ago

Jeff, very good blog. What makes it especially good is the timing. You were 18 when the "face the facts" article came out and bam, now you're 65 and no new world. Yes, you proved them wrong 100%. You did face the facts and the facts proved them so wrong, you can laugh yourself to the bank everyday. And the Watchtower can't. They can't literally because they even shut down their own construction. They had no idea that this old system would go on this long. Not one of them did.
By the way, I think your posts are well written too.

Anders Andersen
Anders Andersen a day ago

Happy birthday Jeff!
I marked it in yellow because this is a very unique birthday wish: it's my first ever :smile:
(OK I practised with wishing Simon and this forum 'happy birthday' by that was technically an anniversary :wink:)
 +1 / -0
smiddy
smiddy 21 hours ago
Happy birthday Jeff,


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A blog post on my 65th birthday
by JeffT a day ago 15 Replies latest 9 hours ago   jw friends
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Xanthippe
Xanthippe 21 hours ago
Good blog Jeff. Happy Birthday 🎂🎉🎈

zeb
zeb 20 hours ago
Good on you Jeff.

Phizzy
Phizzy 20 hours ago
Happy Birthday ! 65 is the new 45 !
 +2 / -0
jookbeard
jookbeard 20 hours ago
Happy birthday Jeff

SecretSlaveClass
SecretSlaveClass 17 hours ago
Happy birthday Jeff! I enjoyed the read.

DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 9 hours ago

Happy Birthday ! 65 is the new 45 !~ Phizzy

See there, even ex-JWs can be delusional!
HAHA
Happy Birthday Jeff!
Doc



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Topic Summary
putting this out there for everybody.
.
http://pathologicallyintellectual.blogspot.com/.



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by AndersonsInfo 2 months ago
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by new boy 8 days ago
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Update on my current life
by umadevi a day ago 7 Replies latest 9 hours ago   jw friends
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umadevi
umadevi a day ago

Hi everyone :smile:! I'm visiting this site after few years here and it's feels like coming home! Just a recap on my past visits here ... I was a confused single JW mom with a 9 year old son in 2011. Some friends here sent me soft copies of COC and few other ebooks which gave me the courage and strength to exit from WT Society. Best ever decision I made! :smile:
Now my son is doing very well in his school. He is also active in school activites and has represented his school in numerous interschool/interstate competitions. I am glad that I instilled the importance of education in him.
When I disassociated from WTS in 2011, I left all my friends behind. I wrote them letters explaining my exit. Some I met and talked but all of them totally ignored me when I left. The only consolation was that none of my family or relatives were JW.
It was like starting a new life in a way ... making new friends and adjusting my view on 'worldly' people. It's been an interesting journey this past few years. I learn to accept, appreciate and trust people around me. I have fully regained my self confidence and independence now. I can proudly say now that I'm 100% free of JW cult.
P.S - Some of JW friends exited in later years and they came looking for me, even apologised for treating me as an outcast. We are currently rebuilding our relationships.
 +24 / -0
smiddy
smiddy a day ago

Welcome back umadevi ,that`s a good success story, good to hear tour son is doing o.k. also Take care
smiddy
 +1 / -0
Phizzy
Phizzy 21 hours ago

Thanks for the update, and it is really great to hear you and your son are doing so well !
Good luck as he goes through his teens ! I have two sons, now grown men, but they were pretty good during the growing-up period really, I am sure your boy will appreciate all his mom does for him.
 +1 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 19 hours ago

Hello!
Lovely post.
We are travelling a similar path as well. It is great to hear how well your life is "post-WT"
Many "friends" will abandon us, yet "real friends" will always make their way back to us. Or new, more loyal friends will be made that surpass anything we had before.
As is often said on this forum, "the best revenge is to live a happy and successful life"
 +2 / -0
stephanie61092
stephanie61092 14 hours ago

Congratulations on your successful life post WTB&TS!! :smile: I've only been on this forum a few months but I love reading success stories such as yours - they are so very encouraging for someone like me who is still going through the process.

TheListener
TheListener 12 hours ago
Awesome update Umadevi!!! Thanks for making my day. I am so happy for you and those others that have left too.

DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 10 hours ago

Thank you so very much for stopping in and sharing your "success story".
You were so fortunate to not have any or all of your family members "stuck in", so no fear of them rejecting you for your decision to bail out of the Borg. Most of us do not have those circumstances and thus hesitate to make the dramatic exit. I think that your letter of explanation was likely to have helped some of the others awaken.
It appears that you have gotten your "revenge".
Doc
The greatest revenge is living a happy & successful life!

Doubtfully Yours
Doubtfully Yours 9 hours ago

A lot of good news today. Thanks for sharing.
Continue to be well.🌺🌹💐
DY


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Feeling Betrayed?
by stuckinarut2 15 hours ago 10 Replies latest 4 minutes ago   jw experiences
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stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 15 hours ago

This is the way many of us feel no doubt: Feeling like we have been betrayed by a faith that has hidden so much from its believers, and covered up some serious past and present teachings and practices.
And yet, WE are the ones treated with disdain, contempt or suspicion due to fading from activity!
Simply amazing that we have had to make a conscious decision to stand up for what is right and not be a part of the organisation for genuine and sincere reasons. And yet they slander us, malign us and make us look like the ones with the problem!
 +5 / -0
Darkknight757
Darkknight757 15 hours ago
The army is growing daily and their day WILL come without fail. We just need to stay strong and never go back to that nightmare. Freedom always has a cost.
 +4 / -0
ToesUp
ToesUp 15 hours ago
Wow! Excellent points!
 +3 / -0
Introvert 2
Introvert 2 13 hours ago
You gotta fight for your right to party ! Good post OP thanks,
 +2 / -0
Londo111
Londo111 13 hours ago
It reminds me of the Allegory of the Cave. When the prisoner returns to free the others, he is ostracized.
 +2 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 12 hours ago

Since the JW religion was built up on so much contrived lying deceptions, through weakly devised core doctrines,
its not really surprising that it had built within itself a strongly indiscriminate watchful eye upon any open dissension ?

There has been many who did question those questionable doctrines and those were selectivity muzzled ( DFed ) and ostracized for doing so or even thinking contravening opposing thoughts.
The tactic of the WTS is to allure and then entrap people to be effectually exploited and manipulated for labor and money.

What a fine Publishing House Jah has chosen !

 +1 / -0
Vidiot
Vidiot 12 hours ago


stuckinarut2 - "...they slander us, malign us, and make us look like the ones with the problem!"
Once again, for the newbies, lurkers, and trolls...
x
...if you have to cheat to defend your beliefs, your beliefs don't deserve to be defended.
 +2 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 11 hours ago

And yet, WE are the ones treated with disdain, contempt or suspicion due to fading from activity!
The WTS was able to exploit people's ignorance, fears and insecurities by lying and creating biblicaly unsupported doctrines as their intentional means to allure people to their organization, if you were to realize that you'll be demonized and booted out.
Power corrupts , absolute power corrupts absolutely

 +1 / -0
Lostwun
Lostwun 10 hours ago

isn't it interesting how the organization always says that its outsiders who slander, criticize and attack them when it's actually jw's that slander and demonize individuals who for conscientious reasons no longer follow there teachings?
You can't even fade quietly without a jw trying to label you. So really, who's criticizing who here?
Nice post SIAR
 +1 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon 10 hours ago
stuckinaru2: Beautifully said.
 +1 / -0

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by stuckinarut2 15 hours ago 10 Replies latest 4 minutes ago   jw experiences
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stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 4 minutes ago

Thank you all for your comments and support.
I wish I could share the motivation behind this post, but can't do so at this time.


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Topic Summary
this is the way many of us feel no doubt: feeling like we have been betrayed by a faith that has hidden so much from its believers, and covered up some serious past and present teachings and practices.. and yet, we are the ones treated with disdain, contempt or suspicion due to fading from activity!.
simply amazing that we have had to make a conscious decision to stand up for what is right and not be a part of the organisation for genuine and sincere reasons.
and yet they slander us, malign us and make us look like the ones with the problem!.



Related Topics
Nicholaus Kopernicus
PAUCITY OF EMPATHY IN WTBTS / GB of JW
by Nicholaus Kopernicus 4 months ago
Killa
SOmething I wrote describing how I feel
by Killa 3 years ago
flipper
Have you regained your Self Esteem after being " Used " by the WT society ?
by flipper 4 years ago
sd-7
'A Remembering'--Batman #10 quote reminded me of my research into JWs
by sd-7 4 years ago
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bad manic episode-went to hospital
by love2Bworldly 2 years ago



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/ A Novel Featuring the Millerites, Charles Taze Russell, and Their End Time Prophecies
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A Novel Featuring the Millerites, Charles Taze Russell, and Their End Time Prophecies
by DT a day ago 4 Replies latest 6 hours ago   jw friends
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DT
DT a day ago
I wanted to let you know that I'm giving away the ebook version of The Great Apocalypse on Amazon until April 8th.


http://www.amazon.com/Great-Apocalypse-Sparlock-Multiverse-Book-ebook/dp/B011M755CC




This philosophical thriller deals with several themes that will be familiar to former Jehovah's Witnesses. Please feel free to download a copy if you have not yet done so.
 +1 / -0
neat blue dog
neat blue dog a day ago
Iread this last year, it was brilliant, like Indiana Jones, X files, Da Vinci code rolled into one. A lot of fun, excitement and mystery, but still poignant and food for thought. Look forward to the sequel.

DT
DT 14 hours ago
Neat blue dog, thank you for your comment. I'm glad you enjoyed the book. I'm working hard on the sequel, but it will take a while. The second book will examine the influence and teachings of Joseph Rutherford and will feature action scenes in a variety of exotic locations and dark deeds from the distant past.
 +1 / -0
neat blue dog
neat blue dog 7 hours ago
Intrigueing . . . BTW do you sell on the Google play store as well?

DT
DT 6 hours ago
For now, I'm distributing the book exclusively through Amazon. That allows me to run special promotions and have the book available in their lending library. However, I plan to eventually change my marketing plan and also sell the book on the other popular sites.


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The danger of thinking we know everything.
by stuckinarut2 2 hours ago 6 Replies latest 8 minutes ago   jw friends
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stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 2 hours ago

A thought occurred that there is a danger in thinking we know everything, or have it all figured out in life. Especially when it comes to matters of doctrine or faith.
Witnesses (or at least the society as a whole) are so self-confident, so proud to be the only ones who know "the truth" about everything to do with the universe, the earth, our past and our future, that pride kicks in. And pride is dangerous...(.and before a fall)
What happens then when teachings, understandings or doctrines are wrong?
The moment we think we know everything, we actually know nothing.
 +7 / -0
naazira
naazira 2 hours ago
I remember when I had learned the truth, I was filled with pride. I was so proud of Jehovah's organization, and the fact that millions of other people believed the EXACT same doctrine as me. I was proud that Jehovah's spirit had drawen me to the Truth™...little ol me, who was hand picked by Jehovah. I eventually began looking down on non-witnesses. One day it all came crashing down and I went from prideful to humble. I learned of the many doctrine changes in the past and I felt confused.
 +5 / -0
talesin
talesin 2 hours ago

May I add, that posters who are dogmatic, and choose to plague every thread that could be remotely connected to the topic about which they are dogmatic, can be disruptive, and purposely have derailed many a thread. It's akin to a dog, snapping at everyone who comes within reach of its leash. ('dog', get it?) OTOH, it can be like taking candy from a baby, if you choose to be easily amused. hehe.
Image result for foghorn leghorn beats up dog
Oh, the term dogma need not refer to religion.
dog·ma

ˈdôɡmə/
noun





1.a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.
"the Christian dogma of the Trinity"
synonyms: teaching, belief, tenet, principle, precept, maxim, article of faith, canon;More

 +2 / -0
dubstepped
dubstepped an hour ago
Run with those that search for truth, and run like hell from those who claim to have found it. - I don't remember where I heard that quote, but I love it. The more I know, the more I realize I don't know. I'd rather be humble and hungry than arrogant and satisfied like I used to be as a JW.
 +5 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 33 minutes ago

YES!
Halfway through my life I realise that I was a very conceited and arrogant person for thinking that I was one of the few people who knew the whole "truth"
To assume that I had the "truth" is so wrong. The reality is I know very little ...

OUTLAW
OUTLAW 33 minutes ago


May I add, that posters who are dogmatic, and choose to plague every thread that could be remotely connected to the topic about which they are dogmatic, can be disruptive, and purposely have derailed many a thread. It's akin to a dog, snapping at everyone who comes within reach of its leash.
Oh, the term dogma need not refer to religion......Talesin
................Image result for hallelujah squirrel gif

Twitch
Twitch 8 minutes ago


The more I know, the more I realize I don't know.
One of life's many paradoxes it would seem.



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stuckinarut2
5
The danger of thinking we know everything.
by stuckinarut2 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 2 hours ago
a thought occurred that there is a danger in thinking we know everything, or have it all figured out in life.

especially when it comes to matters of doctrine or faith.. witnesses (or at least the society as a whole) are so self-confident, so proud to be the only ones who know "the truth" about everything to do with the universe, the earth, our past and our future, that pride kicks in.

and pride is dangerous...(.and before a fall).

dubstepped
stuckinarut2
OUTLAW
33 minutes ago
Gorbatchov
2
Panama papers
by Gorbatchov in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 8 hours ago
is there a chance that watchtower is involved in offshore funds?.

i think there is, because of the business organisation model.. what do you think?.

how to find out?.

Londo111
Gorbatchov
7 hours ago
bradford
8
JW Tattoos
by bradford in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 8 hours ago
i'm sure there are countless opinions on whether you should get a tattoo or not.

my personal view is that if you were to get one it should mean something.. anyone get a tattoo to remember their jw roots?

i was thinking of getting a tetragrammaton somewhere.

jaydee
Finkelstein
bradford
3 hours ago
Naoscillator
5
Feeling Jealous of True Believers
by Naoscillator in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 12 hours ago
what a simple life it is to be a true believer.

the cocksureness of people who never for a moment question their core beliefs is something i have come to envy.

it's altogether foreign, but it sure looks nice over on the other side.. why do some people step into the void of uncertainty while others do everything in their power never to even go near it?

Naoscillator
Doubtfully Yours
DesirousOfChange
10 hours ago
stuckinarut2
9
Feeling Betrayed?
by stuckinarut2 in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 15 hours ago
this is the way many of us feel no doubt: feeling like we have been betrayed by a faith that has hidden so much from its believers, and covered up some serious past and present teachings and practices.. and yet, we are the ones treated with disdain, contempt or suspicion due to fading from activity!.

simply amazing that we have had to make a conscious decision to stand up for what is right and not be a part of the organisation for genuine and sincere reasons.

and yet they slander us, malign us and make us look like the ones with the problem!.

Finkelstein
Lostwun
James Mixon
10 hours ago
umadevi
7
Update on my current life
by umadevi in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
i'm visiting this site after few years here and it's feels like coming home!

just a recap on my past visits here ... i was a confused single jw mom with a 9 year old son in 2011. some friends here sent me soft copies of coc and few other ebooks which gave me the courage and strength to exit from wt society.

best ever decision i made!

TheListener
DesirousOfChange
Doubtfully Yours
10 hours ago
lenaga
4
Who was vice president of WT between 1997 and 2000?
by lenaga in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
1977-1992 milton henschel, 1992-1997 lloyd barry, in 2000 malefant and wallen.

JRK
lenaga
TheOldHippie
19 hours ago
JW_Rogue
39
WT Resurrection Hope Absolutely Ridiculous As Illustrated In Their Publications
by JW_Rogue in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Personal Experiences & Reunions
 a day ago
saw this while browsing through the good news brochure:.

is it any wonder people aren't listening to jws anymore?

what an absolutely delusional scene!

Diogenesister
Darryl
brandnew
2 hours ago
DT
4
A Novel Featuring the Millerites, Charles Taze Russell, and Their End Time Prophecies
by DT in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
i wanted to let you know that i'm giving away the ebook version of the great apocalypse on amazon until april 8th.

http://www.amazon.com/great-apocalypse-sparlock-multiverse-book-ebook/dp/b011m755cc.

this philosophical thriller deals with several themes that will be familiar to former jehovah's witnesses.

DT
neat blue dog
DT
6 hours ago
JeffT
15
A blog post on my 65th birthday
by JeffT in Jehovah's Witnesses
 » Friends
 a day ago
putting this out there for everybody.

.

http://pathologicallyintellectual.blogspot.com/.

jookbeard
SecretSlaveClass
DesirousOfChange
9 hours ago
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/ Wt "study" Participation, is it a "True Believer" Indication?-- or not?
/  







Wt "study" Participation, is it a "True Believer" Indication?-- or not?
by prologos 17 hours ago 23 Replies latest 5 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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prologos
prologos 17 hours ago
In our congregation, the Elders rarely comment. The majority rarely comment, 2 Sisters, vehemently, and often comment. Since in their case, it can not possibly be" teaching in the congregation", is participation in the wt "study"in general an affirmation of faith? an indication what the R&F really think? What is the situation in your hall, if you still go at all?

jookbeard
jookbeard 17 hours ago
most of the elders regularly commented, around 2 or 3 hardcore sisters also, our hall was particularly bad though there was a large group that never ever commented, the reason was the main body of elders were brought in from other congs as the old body of elders were all removed so they were a mixture of reg pioneers,and ex CO, elders used on CA's so were categorised as kind of "hot shot" elders, sadly one of those elders committed suicide.Towards the end of my time there I couldn't comment even if I wanted to as my hand would not be accepted, I was marked!
 +1 / -0
StephaneLaliberte
StephaneLaliberte 16 hours ago

As a group, yes. When the people do not have the freedom to truly express their minds, the only thing left is passive resistance. For instance, decreasing participation in the following areas: field service, comments at the hall, brothers reaching out for responsibilities, financial contributions, attendance at the meetings, construction projects, preparing (highlighting) the study articles, etc.
Personally, I decreased my participation in all these things EXCEPT for the comments! I truly enjoyed making “deep” comments while clearly being “a week one”. It was not the thought of helping others that drove me, it was the fact that I knew I was bothering many “spiritual” brothers who could not understand how I managed to do this while not doing anything else!
Heck, from time to time, I would even talk with brothers at the end of the meetings, explaining how their talk or comments were not always in line with current “new light”. Sure, there were some who were genuine and said thanks. These were not really fun as it was all “BS” to me anyway. My true pleasure and satisfaction was with the ones that would boil in anger while having to “take it” from a no body.
Boy, I’d go back just for those little moments. On second thoughts, naaaahh.
 +5 / -0
wozza
wozza 16 hours ago
In my congo years ago one of the pedophile ex elders there used to sing the melodies with a strong powerful voice - did'nt make him to be a better quality believer .
 +3 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 15 hours ago

At our elder and ministerial servant meetings we were often told in no uncertain terms that appointed men and pioneers were expected to answer several times per meeting!
Failing to do so would be unacceptable!
Seriously.
 +3 / -0
baker
baker 14 hours ago
there is one sister who holds her hand up all the time and sometimes waves. It seems they try not to call on her cause she talks forever. Also she stands at the beginning of the meeting till the song begins and then waves her arms likes she is conducting the song from the stage and is loud. Annoying...was there ever an article about limiting the amount of time to raise your hand?
 +2 / -0
sir82
sir82 14 hours ago

Commenting at meetings is one of the 2000 or so unwritten-yet-strictly-enforced requirements if you are "reaching out" for more "privileges".
However, at least in our congregation, content and frequency of comments are utterly irrelevant.
If you comment once per meeting, in something slightly resembling your own words, that's good enough.
Based on the content of comments at our meetings, we have a collection of simpletons and nitwits who have faith in the magnificent 7 and little else.

 +4 / -0
crazy_flickering_light
crazy_flickering_light 14 hours ago

You have to if you an elder or ms. The CO talk about it, when he meet them. If you don't answer some meetings it will be no problem, but normally one to three answers will be fine.
It's also a way to look spiritual and stay undercover.
Only option I think, to hear what they say and how the pray. How/if they pray for examble for the GB or the CO.

 +3 / -0
label licker
label licker 13 hours ago
One guy in the Fergus congregation finally made it to being an ms but was butt kissing so bad to be an elder. The body of elders told him that they wouldn't make him an elder because his teenage daughters don't comment. The guy was never liked and what do you expect from a bunch of elders who are all related and want their boys to be first in line for eldership even though bethel kicked their sons out once they found out their were naked pics of them on the internet sent in to bethel. Forget about commenting, to fit in you have to be a drinker and butt licker.
 +4 / -0
Vidiot
Vidiot 12 hours ago
I swear, this community uses "quotation marks" more than any other I've ever seen. :smirk:


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Wt "study" Participation, is it a "True Believer" Indication?-- or not?
by prologos 17 hours ago 23 Replies latest 5 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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sir82
sir82 12 hours ago
I don't see anything "out of the ordinary".

 +3 / -0
dbq407
dbq407 12 hours ago
Usually about every week or so a certain elder will make sure to remind everyone to limit their comments to 30 seconds or less. You can tell it is a pet peeve of his when someone goes over the 30 second mark. Its funny to watch him get so upset about it.
 +3 / -0
Londo111
Londo111 12 hours ago

It’s strange how “commenting” is treated as important as it is, a part of “true worship” that everyone is expected to do. “Expressions” was another synonym used that is a bit strange and spoken of in some reverence.
There are less sanctions for not commenting than not going door to door or regular meeting attendance. Perhaps it’s because it’s not something reported on a slip of paper. But over time, people observe and judge. And of course, one cannot be appointed or retain their appointment without “participating”.
In retrospect, what is most alarming is the adults, especially older ones, that would raise their hands and answer straight from the magazine, especially in a slow, stilted manner.
On the other hand, some commenting in their own words would say things that were even more extreme than the Watchtower’s position or were plain nutty. For instance, one elderette, the wife of the COBE, condemned women remarrying after the death of their spouse.
 +2 / -0
prologos
prologos 12 hours ago
how about those that do not comment, but could, ? is their reluctance a sign of misgivings? in the local case, most of the elders, most of the male members. The most enthusiastic commentators see glory coming from the microphone in front of them.
 +2 / -0
Vidiot
Vidiot 11 hours ago


dbq407 - "Usually about every week or so a certain elder will make sure to remind everyone to limit their comments to 30 seconds or less. You can tell it is a pet peeve of his when someone goes over the 30 second mark. Its funny to watch him get so upset about it."
I can actually sympathize.
I hated those "superfine" commenters who basically reread the entire f**king paragraph.
 +6 / -0
freddo
freddo 9 hours ago

Commenting in my corner of hundred acre wood goes thus.
Kids: Some say nothing or shyly lisp an answer that is whispered in their ears.
Teenagers: Generally stay shtum except the precocious pioneer at age 15 who answers three times per meeting.
Non-appointed brothers/ex appointed brothers who are not reaching out and sisters not pioneering and who are not elders' wives: Maybe one answer every couple of weeks.
As above but ex-elder in an almighty sulk but goes to meetings because Jehovah knows he is right: No answers ever!
Elders and MS's and brothers who pioneer: One answer per meeting.
Elder wishing to make a point: Three times per meeting.
Elder's wives: Two times per meeting
Pioneer sisters: Two/Three times per meeting.
Frustrated Single Pioneer sister: As many times as possible!
 +1 / -0
prologos
prologos 9 hours ago
freddo: "--As above (stumm) but ex-elder in an almighty sulk -- perhaps he is an ex-elder because of expressing himself too freely, and is now curbed, not allowed to comment, because of previously exposing wt fallacies?

BlackWolf
BlackWolf 8 hours ago
I refuse to answer most of the time, sometimes my parents will make me find an answer ahead of time and I will act like I'm going to do it but then I don't and just blame it on my anxiety. I don't want to participate in the stupidity.
 +2 / -0
Island Man
Island Man 6 hours ago

I don't think commenting necessarily indicates that someone is a true believer. Sometimes an awake JW might comment just to keep up appearances. Or maybe an awake JW might give comments that are geared at subtly hinting at TTATT or maybe to subtly counter extremist views shared in the literature or other comments.
So I think the nature of the comments have to also be taken into consideration. Do the comments bear the mark of extremist JW views, blindly towing the Watchtower line; or are they more reasonable, thoughtful and sober encouraging balance, compassion, lack of judgmentalism, etc?

 +1 / -0
xjwsrock
xjwsrock 5 hours ago

Island Man - I agree.
The dose-of-sanity comment is all I can muster anymore. If the paragraph happens to be encouraging normal ethical behavior or discouraging unethical behavior then i can comment.
If it's another we are right, the whole world is wrong, God is going to kill you if you are unfaithful, aren't the Governing Body amazing type paragraphs, then I can't do it. I have a visceral reaction to that BS propaganda now.
I have gone many watchtower studies without finding one comment I could stomach making. I am an elder btw.
To answer the OP - Is WT Commenting a True Believer Indicator? - Yes for those that are sincere. It is also a way to appear that you are a believer for those of us that are faking it for now.





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Topic Summary
in our congregation, the elders rarely comment.
the majority rarely comment, 2 sisters, vehemently, and often comment.
since in their case, it can not possibly be" teaching in the congregation", is participation in the wt "study"in general an affirmation of faith?



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/ Wt "study" Participation, is it a "True Believer" Indication?-- or not?
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Wt "study" Participation, is it a "True Believer" Indication?-- or not?
by prologos 17 hours ago 23 Replies latest 5 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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dbq407
dbq407 5 hours ago

Vidiot-I can actually sympathize.
I hated those "superfine" commenters who basically reread the entire f**king paragraph.
Ha, yea i was always annoyed at the super long commenters also, but it's worth it to see this elder squirm in his seat and make an announcement every week about it :smile:

xjwsrock
xjwsrock 5 hours ago

If you read books like Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion, you learn that people are influenced by having to say something out loud. Commenting in the congregation forces people to publicly commit to their faith. This reinforces the indoctrination in a big way. It's one thing for someone else to tell you from a stage, it's something altogether different to hear it coming out of your own mouth.
Field service has a strong reinforcing effect as well. I believe this is the main reason for field service. The recruiting aspect is secondary.

 +4 / -0
stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 5 hours ago
Good point xjwsrock!

prologos
prologos 5 hours ago
Good point xjwsrock! that is why the elders are perking their ears, to listen what the "spiritual" (indoctrination) stage the person is in, commenting is kind of aconfessional. what is your confession?


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Topic Summary
in our congregation, the elders rarely comment.
the majority rarely comment, 2 sisters, vehemently, and often comment.
since in their case, it can not possibly be" teaching in the congregation", is participation in the wt "study"in general an affirmation of faith?



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by Terry a month ago



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/ Richard C B, this ones for you.
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Richard C B, this ones for you.
by DATA-DOG a day ago 4 Replies latest 9 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG a day ago

This is not an attack, just answer the questions.
1) Are you an active JW?
2) http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/275576/active-jws-can-you-defend-truth?page=1
DD
 +1 / -0
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 9 hours ago

Nothing??? I'm not surprised. No JW can take DD's challenge.
DD

SecretSlaveClass
SecretSlaveClass 9 hours ago

Bro, seriously. Your trying to debate a child. Ignore him. He's an early teen troll. Didn't you see my posts about the PM's from him I shared with the forum?
I wish Simon would just ban this kid.
 +1 / -0
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 9 hours ago

Bro, I didn't read your posts until 2 minutes ago.
DD

DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 9 hours ago

Anyway, the gauntlet is thrown. I will immediately turn myself into the Elders if any active JW can defend their faith without violating their own "criteria of truth."
See ya next year!
DD


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/ IS DOUBT always an indication of moral failure---FAITH vs. DOUBT?
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IS DOUBT always an indication of moral failure---FAITH vs. DOUBT?
by Terry 15 hours ago 5 Replies latest 8 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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Terry
Terry 15 hours ago

Is doubt always an indication of moral failure-- Faith vs. Doubt?



Human survival depends upon a rigorous balance between perception and the means of testing first impressions.
Nature’s own test is that of Eater and eaten.
Inside the food chain, predators blend with their surrounding habitat. Avoidance of death isn’t easy. Survival depends on distinguishing the vine from the serpent, the nectar from the flytrap, the twig from the mantis, the dappled shadows from the leopard.
Self-correcting Human intelligence removed mankind from the Food Chain by a rigorous balance between perception and doubt, cognition, and skeptical inquiry.

That required:SELF_TESTING, which is DOUBT.
The result of this self-correction? Homo sapien dominates all other species.
Before there was Science to create a Technology for medicine and genetic knowledge, the only way out of the ultimate doom of a brief existence was Superstition.
Man’s intellect and imagination have conspired to create a means of escaping even Death itself.
Religion, superstition, and ritual were mankind's first-draft of the means of ‘escape.’
Mankind has created the idea of a super-powerful Being who can rescue him. The price is total fealty, obedience, and unwavering loyalty. These three things are only possible when there is no Doubt.
Why?
Mankind is intelligent enough to know (even hiding this knowledge from himself) the Great Rescuer is imaginary. To counter his fear of death and dying, doubt cannot be allowed to destroy the delicate illusion or his superimposed ‘meaning’ of life would vanish in a cynical and empty purposeless existence.
As history has demonstrated, again and again, religion produces priests, shaman, Witch Doctors, gurus, Spiritual advisors, Popes and Governing Body leaders. Each of these claims to have a unique connection to the mind of God. For a price or a service, they will dispense the Secrets of eternal life and offer protection from death.
These self-empowered religious leaders must rely on Total Obedience for their power and livelihood. If they allow their congregation to TEST them, the authority can vanish with the first failure.
Supreme Authority only is possible with Supreme Control, i.e. (no doubting is allowed.)
The irony is clear. By seeking to escape death, mankind has fallen victim to a Con game.
Trading away skepticism and doubt, they fall victim to eternal servitude. If you doubt this, ask yourself, what does the phrase “A slave of Christ Jesus” actually mean?
Yet, some men and women have resisted both the ‘Leap of Faith’ and the headlong plunge into self-deception. These are thinkers, doubters, and skeptics who put the grand claims of the priests and prophets to the test. When the report is given, the Man of Faith resorts with Denial, Anger and Fear. How can doubt be allowed?
Well, it isn’t!
Who is hated more than any other group but the Atheist?
What is an evangelist other than a desperate storm trooper for an imaginary cause seeking to create an exclusive world entirely free of doubts by eliminating skeptical inquiry?
If they convert the planet, no whistleblower will be left to destroy the illusion of everlasting life.

Which world do you live in? What price do you pay for it?
The believer must live inside a bubble of constantly re-affirmed nonsense and ritual servitude.
The non-believer must live in a coercive society which demeans and reviles him.
Both worlds come at a price.
The True Believer dies with a smile, self-convinced Paradise awaits on the other side.
The non-believer dies knowing his only monument is the life and legacy he has already lived.
A religious believer can do many foolish and harmful deeds and yet have the slate wiped clean.
The doubter must own his deeds down to his last breath. He makes restitution or he dies in infamy.
The test of each person’s character is this decision between FAITH and DOUBT.



Who you really are as a human being determines which choice you make.
Dreamer or Realist?
Is there room to be a doubting believer or a believing doubter?
Revelation 3: 16
Young's Literal Translation
"So -- because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I am about to vomit thee out of my mouth."
The Bible says, "NO."
Don't you dare doubt or you may discover the delusion is inferior as a solution.

Terry
Terry 14 hours ago

1 Corinthians 7:22
For he who is called by the Lord as a slave is the Lord’s freedman. Likewise, he who is called as a free man is Christ’s slave.
______
We are so accustomed to this sort of language, we never stop to QUESTION whether being a sheep or a slave is a terrible debasement of human intellect.
The realistic thing to point out is this: We actually become sheep and slaves of---NOT GOD--only those claiming they represent God.
That is a HUGE claim and requires doubt to hurdle the possibility we are being conned!
 +1 / -0
Terry
Terry 14 hours ago







The dividing line between humans and animals is the ABILITY to QUESTION or own impulses. Animals totally rely on instinct. Pets are easily trained because animals grant unquestioning submission to any more dominant influence.
For a human being to roll over and show their white underbelly is bestial. Submission is surrender.
http://muslimvoices.org/word-islam-meaning/
"In Arabic, the word “Islam” means submission or surrender – however, it was derived from the root word “salam”. From this root word, you can also derive the words peace and safety. Many people feel that Islam implies some sort of enslavement to Allah, but others find it more helpful to define the word “Islam” as surrender."


ttdtt
ttdtt 13 hours ago
It is if you are a JW - funny how Jesus didn't condemn Thomas, nor did the disciples shun him.

Finkelstein
Finkelstein 12 hours ago

Doubt and inquisitiveness might be a measure of human intelligence.
The ancient Hebrew High Priests had to watch out for any open dissension upon their laws which they created themselves within their socialized civilization.
The WTS. and its leaders have inherently tried to model itself upon the ancient Hebrew's approach toward apostasy more so than what your find in other bible based faiths.
This might have come about by some of the core doctrines to which this organization built itself upon such as Christ returning to establish a new earthly kingdom under his rule. (1914)


Terry
Terry 8 hours ago

2+2=4 does not require a huge philosophical argument to prove.
Religious arguments are very dusty, creaky, and long-winded. In fact, religious Doctrine is so ramshackle, the religious Authority must censor critics because they can't risk using silly rebuttals to convince intelligent people. Criticism exposes false things.
If JW's had THE TRUTH they'd be eager to reason, argue, debate till the cows come home. They'd never shut down discussion and makr you as an Apostate. Why?
Because having the TRUTH, their arguments would make critics look like idiots immediately.
Instead, it's the other way round.
To destroy the possibility of being foolish, religious authorities seek to destroy the moral authority of critics. They label them pejoratively.


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After death
by Willie647 14 hours ago 8 Replies latest 3 hours ago   watchtower beliefs
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Willie647
Willie647 14 hours ago
I'm not a born in but my parents became jws when I was about 3 years old. I left at 18 after I was accused of having sex with my future wife. Truth is we hadn't done anything remotely close. No kissing,no heavy petting or anything. The elders just didn't believe me even though they watched me grow up. So I got out. I believe I was dfd but never went back to find out. I haven't seen my family in over 30 years. I looked up my mother and step father yesterday and found out they are still alive and that made me wonder about where they think they are going after death. I think they would believe they go nowhere and will just be dead but will be resurrected later. I always thought as a kid that they had a real fear of dying and that's why they became jws. So to me it's ironic that they have no hope of going to heaven at death. Am I right about the jw doctrine here?
 +8 / -0
FayeDunaway
FayeDunaway 13 hours ago
Yes, that particular JW doctrine hasn't changed. Be glad you were falsely accused and got to live your life. I'm sorry you lost your family tho under these accusations. What a horrible religion, hurting its own for no reason. It's the opposite of Christlike.
 +5 / -0
LV101
LV101 12 hours ago

Willie647 - Welcome if this is your first post and how awful of them to make accusations - although it's what cults do to bully the innocent/good. To bad you couldn't sue the cult -- I don't know that you can't or couldn't back then in your case. America and it's protection of religious/ponsi schemes -- makes me sick! What's even more evil and amazing is how parents carry on with their loyalty witnessing the defamation of their child to save their own hide from death hype/fantasies and for a few so-called friends. Of course, they can make a name for themselves and be a big shot inside and that power is quite an aphrodisiac -- more than even money, so they say.
You are strong and knew best to flee from the evil to protect yourself/wife and are one of the fortunate survivors. A life of freedom and opportunity many are too afraid to risk -- you are to be commended. A delusional elder/elderette probably had you or your wife selected for their child or friend's child. They are malevolent losers.
Stay strong and hang onto your hair - lots of reality onboard re/religion/death - you name it.
Best!
 +2 / -0
Willie647
Willie647 12 hours ago
It was hard,Faye. At 17 I was running the sound system for the hall,quit school to pioneer full time and giving talks at circuit assemblies. I even gave the instruction talk,15 minutes at a circuit assembly. I believed it all. Our old man congregation overseer was a man I thought the world of and he sat in the meeting where I was accused by a young elder and didn't say a thing to help me. I was the leader in magazine placement and books at that hall. Had several bible studies and several people got baptized that I studied with. I helped fill seats. This was about the time the elder system was started up. I didn't even know that I was going to a judicial meeting. I was just 18 and six months old,having moved out of the house and supporting myself. I was dating a jw girl and was a virgin. We did hold hands however. The meeting was kind of a stalemate as I wouldn't admit wrongdoing as I had done nothing wrong so whoever accused me couldn't have proof. My impression at the time was the elders were a bunch of dirty old men wanting juicy info so they could do whatever to me. I denied everything,waited till the end of the meeting,stood up,didn't speak to them or shake hands,and just walked out the door never to return. Still married the jw girl but that was a bust after five years as we both grew up. So at 18 I lost my family and everyone I knew as friends. Hard but doable. I never felt a need to return. This site is really great as I don't feel so alone now. I realize I am not the only one.
 +13 / -0
FayeDunaway
FayeDunaway 11 hours ago

Willie you are not the only one! But your situation is still surprising, that they would accuse you of those things and not respect your word, since you had been given so many responsibilites and were obviously respected up to that point. I am surprised you never even kissed tho, these things are natural!! Yes there are a lot of repressed people in that religion, they probably would deny they were asking questions because of their own dirty minds but there's no doubt they are getting thrills from these inquiries.
You must have felt so alone. I hope you went on to making your own family and community after everyone shunned you. It's like it can't even be real, it's otherworldly...like something out if Salem Massachusetts in the Puritan era...but it's still happening today.
 +2 / -0
elbib
elbib 5 hours ago

Willie647,
"Be glad you were falsely accused" which gave you freedom from fanaticism.
Regarding your question: What happens after death?
It's a surprise--I would keep it as surprise to be experienced in its own time.

stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 5 hours ago

Sadly, FACTS have little influence on a judicial committee once the wheels are in motion.
It is mainly about "perceptions and innuendo"
Many wake up after events like this, as they see little point in trying to prove ones spirituality or innocence just to stay within a group that has been so quick to be judgemental. Why stay in an abusive relationship?
 +2 / -0
Crazyguy
Crazyguy 4 hours ago
I know a woman that went through a similar situation when she was a teen. New male study was hot after her. I believe he got baptised and when she would not respond to his advances he went to the elders claiming they messed around. She denied it and despite the fact she grew up in that hall they didn't believe her and publicly reproved her. She never went back.
 +5 / -0
Pete Zahut
Pete Zahut 3 hours ago

Unfortunately yours isn't an isolated incident. Such a loss of years of togetherness with your family....30 years gone...all for nothing. I can't help but wonder what is going through your parents minds now that they have grown old . If your parents are as afraid of dying as you say, I could see how they could write you off thinking they were doing the right thing for God and in turn saving their own hides in the process. I couldn't bear to cut my Sons out of my life, no matter what they may have done. Especially having done so because of a set of beliefs being enforced by a religion only to later see many of those beliefs fail or drastically change.
Did your first wife get DF'd too and did she loose here family? Is she a JW now? Did anything good come of all this?

 +3 / -0

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A fresh look at Shunning
by Giordano 13 hours ago 4 Replies latest an hour ago   watchtower beliefs
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Giordano
Giordano 13 hours ago

I have always been opposed to the practice of Shunning especially for simple mistakes, especially when someone questions the 'truth' or the GB. Or elects to speak to a shunned family member or close friend. Or violates the Blood ban.
Even as a practicing JW I was uncomfortable with shunning.
An article caught my attention today on ritual sacrifice.

In much of the pre-modern world, ritual sacrifice was framed as necessary for the good of the society at large — the only way to guarantee, say, a plentiful harvest or success in war.
But the priests and rulers who sanctioned such killings may have had another motive, a new study suggests........... In other words, ritual killings helped keep the powerful in power and everyone else in check................
This finding supports the “social control hypothesis” of human sacrifice, the researchers said. This idea suggests that ritual killings are a way to terrorize people into submission, allowing the religious and political leaders (and in many cultures, those were one and the same) who ordered the killings to consolidate power unopposed............
Watts, a psychologist at the University of Auckland, wrote on his website..........
"People often claim that religion underpins morality,” Watts told Science. But he says his study illustrates how religious rituals like human sacrifice are often designed to serve someone other than the gods: “It shows how religion can be exploited by social elites to their own benefit.”
We have called shunning torture.......... we have called it unloving....a punishment.
Is it also a human sacrifice? After all aDF or DA person is considered living under a death sentence in the JW world........ is this practice which is supposed to come from a loving god nothing more then a barbaric symbolic ritual killing to make sure an organization keeps total control over their followers?
The full article is here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/04/05/the-darker-link-between-ancient-human-sacrifice-and-our-modern-world/?hpid=hp_no-name_morning-mix-story-j%3Ahomepage%2Fstory






































 +3 / -0
DesirousOfChange
DesirousOfChange 10 hours ago

This idea suggests that ritual killings are a way to terrorize people into submission, allowing the religious and political leaders (and in many cultures, those were one and the same) who ordered the killings to consolidate power unopposed.......
This is exactly how JWs use the threat of disfellowshipping. However, you know it's true that the only reason they use disfellowshipping is because it's illegal for them to stone-to-death anyone they deem to be a "sinner".
Doc

 +1 / -0
Giordano
Giordano 8 hours ago

DOC I remember how earnest they sounded that because of man's law they could no longer stone.......... it was such a loss. What about Jesus flagging a crowd off with 'who can cast the first stone.'
They are out of their collective mind not to mention tone deaf in communicating their ideas.

berrygerry
berrygerry an hour ago

Posted on another forum.

Rutherford was the originator of the value of martyrs, with his vitriolic letter to Hitler.
The WTS has always kept the value of martyrs in mind.
Today, it is most commonly seen with the Blood deaths, and with the sacrifice of family via shunning.

stuckinarut2
stuckinarut2 an hour ago
The organisation has taken the concept of judging and sunning to a level far beyond anything that the Bible ever implied.Now people are shunned even if they are not formerly disfellowshiped or disassociated, but simply not up to a "spiritual standard" that the society outlines.
 Innuendo, slander and gossip create the perfect environment for witnesses to decide who they will accept...


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Sins that can burn your buns.
by James Mixon 11 hours ago 8 Replies latest 4 hours ago   watchtower bible
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James Mixon
James Mixon 11 hours ago

If you are a believer what sins can send you to Sheol, Hades, Gehenna, Lake of fire or
Second death??? In the OT there were many but what about the NT.
One web page listed 40 sins that can send you to hell.LOL

freemindfade
freemindfade 10 hours ago

I hope not, or I am in deep shit!
 +1 / -0
EyesOpenHeartBroken
EyesOpenHeartBroken 9 hours ago

A list of sins is a futile exercise. Jesus made it clear what is important:
1.Love God
2. Love your neighbor
Actions are merely a manifestation of the heart's motivation.
When I was a JW, I thought the above might be too simplistic. Now that I've given myself the time to ponder this without the background "noise" of JW interpretation, I see that it is simple, not simplistic. Not that it is always easy to live by the law if love, but when practiced it is transcendent. "Whoever does not love has not come to know God, because God is love." 1 John 4:8
To the OP--I'd wager there won't be burned buns. "God is love."

cofty
cofty 9 hours ago

"God is love." - EOHB
So why does the natural world shriek otherwise?
 +4 / -1
James Mixon
James Mixon 5 hours ago

EyesOpen: "God is Love". What about one that practice sin, lets say the guy is committing adultery
and have a massive heart attack and die, his last act on this earth a sin, or someone who robbed a bank
got shot in the process and killed. A guy having sex with a sheep and die. The point their last act
before returning to dust a sin..

EyesOpenHeartBroken
EyesOpenHeartBroken 5 hours ago

Cofty-not sure what you are asking.
James- I'm not the one to make the call on the folks you listed above. But I do believe a person who lives their life without a heart full of love departs from Gods love. And I don't believe in hellfire and damnation.
I have more thoughts, but I have a feeling you are not really interested. The OP was addressed to believers, but it seems I am the only non-atheist that wandered in.
Peace out.

cofty
cofty 4 hours ago

Cofty-not sure what you are asking.
I'm questioning your assumption that god is love in view of the evidence from the natural world.
Why did god invent viruses that can wipe out thousands of people in a few weeks?
Why did he invent parasites that eat a child's eye from the inside?
Why is it that almost every animal that has ever lived has died horribly from starvation, predation, cold, parasites or disease?
Why did he design a world that would inevitably kill millions of its inhabitants in natural disasters?

Jehalapeno
Jehalapeno 4 hours ago
The more you embrace the Lord Jehalapeño, the more your buns will burn. Fear not. It is but a side effect of my unconditional spice.
 +1 / -0
James Mixon
James Mixon 4 hours ago

EyesOpen: I'm very interested in your thoughts. I'm not an atheist, not yet. I have had so many
discussions with ministers, my family are full of them they all believe hellfire or damnation.
But when I ask them a question that they can not answer their response, lets not discuss the
bible or they will tell me I will get back with you later.
The bible is never discussed when I'am around my non-JW family members(family gathering), but when they have a question
about the Bible they call me to see what I think.
Do you believe it's a sin to question the Bible?


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/ More Ant-Evolution BS in this months JW Broadcast Program
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More Ant-Evolution BS in this months JW Broadcast Program
by ttdtt 7 hours ago 11 Replies latest 2 hours ago   watchtower bible
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ttdtt
ttdtt 7 hours ago

So at around the 46 min mark - the are talking to this guy from Ukraine who was a zoologist.
He talks about how he was a staunch evolutionist (who wasn't able to prove evolution to himself, by the way). Then when he studied nature through the lens of evolution - he found that nature contradicted evolution.
His BIG point came when he said - "imagine emptying a box of letter blocks on a table, and the Encyclopedia Britannica appears, or could a computer program come by chance. So who could DNA come by chance."
OK all - with this piercing analysis - I have to RECANT and go back to the Hall.
F the millions of pieces of evidence that science and museums hold!
F the new DNA proof that is there for everyone to look at.
How can you argue against letter blocks not turning into the Encyclopedia Britannica !!!
Ex Brothers and Sisters - please recant as well - here is all the simple minded and eroniouse fact free ingenuous info you need! http://tv.jw.org/#en/video/VODStudio/pub-jwb_201604_1_VIDEO
 +6 / -0
Island Man
Island Man 6 hours ago
The very illustrations he's using reveal that he never truly understood evolution to begin with. I believe that those who find evolution hard to believe are those who do not truly understand it. The kinds of questions and reasoning they use show that they don't understand it.

 +6 / -0
ttdtt
ttdtt 6 hours ago

Island Man - VERY TRUE!!
I remember friends using this line on people "Well have you ever read the Bible? if not how can you judge it?"
Guess that's only a 1 way street - Bet no JW say - let me read Origin of Species to see what its about....
 +2 / -1
cofty
cofty 6 hours ago

His BIG point came when he said - "imagine emptying a box of letter blocks on a table, and the Encyclopedia Britannica appears, or could a computer program come by chance. So who could DNA come by chance."
I suspect he was a zoo-keeper rather than a zoologist.



 +7 / -1
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 6 hours ago

How many books have GB men read on Biological evolution ? = 0
How many books have the GB men read on the Earth's own Geological evolution ? = 0
How many books have the GB men read on Astrophysics ? = 0
The conclusion is therefore human ignorance nourishes increased spirituality and therefore education is the work of the devil and his wicked evil forces.
There all cleared up and clarified

 +3 / -0
Coded Logic
Coded Logic 4 hours ago




.
Yes, because an encyclopedia and DNA are so much alike. Both are self replicating molecules that mutate and are subject to the pressures of natural selection . . . . . .
 +4 / -0
Finkelstein
Finkelstein 4 hours ago




 +5 / -0
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG 3 hours ago

What's the guy's name? Where did he get his Zoology degree? Is he even legit?
DD
 +2 / -0
JACOB Meza
JACOB Meza 3 hours ago

@ Finkelstein:
It is so sad to see you resort to that Jesus face palm meme. It makes me wonder if you were the type of JW who made fun of/were rude to "unbelievers" as well.
It is even more sad to see that type of expression allowed here. Whew, I remember the good ol' days of this forum. Sad that they are gone.
I consider that type of expression far below ones used by truly intellectual men & women.
 +1 / -3
Diogenesister
Diogenesister 3 hours ago

I suspect he was a zoo-keeper rather than a zoologist.
Even a zoo keeper wouldn't be that ignorant...they are damned liars..just making stuff up....Dr Andersen again?
 +1 / -0

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More Ant-Evolution BS in this months JW Broadcast Program
by ttdtt 7 hours ago 11 Replies latest 2 hours ago   watchtower bible
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Finkelstein
Finkelstein 3 hours ago

JACOB Meza Proportionate satire for illogical analogies seems balanced and appropriate.
imagine emptying a box of letter blocks on a table, and the Encyclopedia Britannica appears, or could a computer program come by chance. So who could DNA come by chance."
 +1 / -0
atomant
atomant 2 hours ago
ld like to know where the information in cells came from.lt appears they just magically appeared from thin air like magic.



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Topic Summary
so at around the 46 min mark - the are talking to this guy from ukraine who was a zoologist.. he talks about how he was a staunch evolutionist (who wasn't able to prove evolution to himself, by the way).
then when he studied nature through the lens of evolution - he found that nature contradicted evolution.. his big point came when he said - "imagine emptying a box of letter blocks on a table, and the encyclopedia britannica appears, or could a computer program come by chance.
so who could dna come by chance.".



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Big Prophecy vs. Big Profits ...See
by Perry 6 hours ago 3 Replies latest 4 hours ago   watchtower bible
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Perry
Perry 6 hours ago
During the 20th Century while we had our eyes fixated on our "one-time" idol the Watchtower and their false prophecies like the generation of 1914, King of the North & South flip flops, 1975, "the generation that wouldn't pass away", etc.; A number of actual prophecies were unfolding. We just weren't taught to look for them.
First, it is good to get an idea of what Israel (then called Palestine) looked like prior to the 20th century. Mark Twain provides a vivid biopic snapshot :

Screen Shot 2016-03-28 at 4.34.03 PM
Excerpts from The Innocents Abroad by Mark Twain, 1867:
Of all the lands there are for dismal scenery, I think Palestine must be the prince. The hills are barren, they are dull of color, they are unpicturesque in shape. The valleys are unsightly deserts fringed with a feeble vegetation that has an expression about it of being sorrowful and despondent. ... It is a hopeless, dreary, heart-broken land.
Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes. Over it broods the spell of a curse that has withered its fields and fettered its energies. ... Nazareth is forlorn; about that ford of Jordan where the hosts of Israel entered the Promised Land with songs of rejoicing, one finds only a squalid camp of fantastic Bedouins of the desert; ...
Bethlehem and Bethany, in their poverty and their humiliation, have nothing about them now to remind one that they once knew the high honor of the Saviour’s presence...Renowned Jerusalem itself, the stateliest name in history, has lost all its ancient grandeur, and is become a pauper village...
Below is a partial list of verses that predict the regathering of Israel. For more passages, see the endnote.[i]
The Regathering in Isaiah
Let’s look at this passage closely:
(Is. 11:11-12 NASB) Then it will happen on that day that the Lord will again recover the second time with His hand the remnant of His people, who will remain, from Assyria, Egypt, Pathros, Cush, Elam, Shinar, Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. 12 And He will lift up a standard for the nations, and will assemble the banished ones of Israel, and will gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
Today, we see that there has been an exodus from these specific countries that Isaiah had predicted:

Statistics on Regathering from the Nations

Nation
Jewish Population (1948)
Jewish Population (Today)

Egypt

66,000 Jews.

A few hundred.[3]

Assyria & Babylon
(modern day Iraq)

150,000 Jews

Fewer than 10![4]

Hamath
(modern day Syria)

15,000 Jews.

Fewer than 100.[5]

Elam
(modern day Persia, then Iran)

95,000 Jews.

20,000 to 25,000.[6]

 +0 / -1
cofty
cofty 5 hours ago

Same copy-paste four times in four days.
Totally ignores all responses.
Pathetic.
 +0 / -1
M*A*S*H
M*A*S*H 4 hours ago
Thread closed.

Jehalapeno
Jehalapeno 4 hours ago

The problem is, Perry, that Israel rejected their Lord Jehalapeño. They rejected the spice, so I wasn't nice.


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/ Science vs Religion - All in the brain? New study...
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Science vs Religion - All in the brain? New study...
by faithnomore 3 hours ago 2 Replies latest an hour ago   watchtower beliefs
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faithnomore
faithnomore 3 hours ago

Maybe they can't help it?
http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/20365/20160325/science-vs-religion-brain-neural-networks-faith-reason-religious-non-religious.htm
http://phys.org/news/2016-03-conflict-science-religion-lies-brains.html
Thoughts?

Skedaddle
Skedaddle 2 hours ago

They're pitching science vs religion. I don't disagree with the articles, it makes sense but it doesn't have anything ultimately to do with God vs no God does it? If we think in a balanced way we should be using both sides of the brain to come to conclusions. So far, science cannot say God does not exist and religion can't prove God does exist. Only the individual can say he/she knows or doesn't know. Determining what side of the brain someones using to make that claim they know or do not know is telling. My ears always perk up when I hear anyone debating God from both sides - there's the endless rabbit hole!

faithnomore
faithnomore an hour ago
I think its basically saying that believing in a god/religion is using one hemisphere of the brain which then suppresses cognitive thinking and vice versa. I think its super interesting because I think back to when I was a jw believer and there was nothing you could say that would make me believe there is no god (which I tie directly to religion) so I feel like my cognitive thinking was for sure suppressed.


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faithnomore
2
Science vs Religion - All in the brain? New study...
by faithnomore in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 3 hours ago
maybe they can't help it?.

http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/20365/20160325/science-vs-religion-brain-neural-networks-faith-reason-religious-non-religious.htm.

http://phys.org/news/2016-03-conflict-science-religion-lies-brains.html.

Skedaddle
faithnomore
an hour ago
Perry
3
Big Prophecy vs. Big Profits ...See
by Perry in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 6 hours ago
during the 20th century while we had our eyes fixated on our "one-time" idol the watchtower and their false prophecies like the generation of 1914, king of the north & south flip flops, 1975, "the generation that wouldn't pass away", etc.

; a number of actual prophecies were unfolding.

we just weren't taught to look for them.

cofty
M*A*S*H
Jehalapeno
4 hours ago
cofty
2
Evolution is a Fact #33 - A Tale about Tails
by cofty in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 6 hours ago
humans are classified as apes.. apes don't have tails.. except when they do.. we used to have tails.

i don't mean "we" as a species; i mean you and i as individuals.

we all had tails.. embryologists divide the development of a human embryo into 23 "carnegie stages" based on multiple physical features.

atomant
cofty
5 hours ago
ttdtt
11
More Ant-Evolution BS in this months JW Broadcast Program
by ttdtt in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 7 hours ago
so at around the 46 min mark - the are talking to this guy from ukraine who was a zoologist.. he talks about how he was a staunch evolutionist (who wasn't able to prove evolution to himself, by the way).

then when he studied nature through the lens of evolution - he found that nature contradicted evolution.. his big point came when he said - "imagine emptying a box of letter blocks on a table, and the encyclopedia britannica appears, or could a computer program come by chance.

so who could dna come by chance.".

Diogenesister
Finkelstein
atomant
2 hours ago
James Mixon
8
Sins that can burn your buns.
by James Mixon in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Bible Research & Study Articles
 11 hours ago
if you are a believer what sins can send you to sheol, hades, gehenna, lake of fire or.

second death???

in the ot there were many but what about the nt.. one web page listed 40 sins that can send you to hell.lol.

cofty
Jehalapeno
James Mixon
4 hours ago
Giordano
4
A fresh look at Shunning
by Giordano in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 13 hours ago
i have always been opposed to the practice of shunning especially for simple mistakes, especially when someone questions the 'truth' or the gb.

or elects to speak to a shunned family member or close friend.

or violates the blood ban.. even as a practicing jw i was uncomfortable with shunning.. an article caught my attention today on ritual sacrifice.

Giordano
berrygerry
stuckinarut2
an hour ago
Willie647
8
After death
by Willie647 in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 14 hours ago
i'm not a born in but my parents became jws when i was about 3 years old.

i left at 18 after i was accused of having sex with my future wife.

truth is we hadn't done anything remotely close.

stuckinarut2
Crazyguy
Pete Zahut
4 hours ago
Terry
5
IS DOUBT always an indication of moral failure---FAITH vs. DOUBT?
by Terry in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 15 hours ago
is doubt always an indication of moral failure-- faith vs. doubt?.

human survival depends upon a rigorous balance between perception and the means of testing first impressions.

nature’s own test is that of eater and eaten.. inside the food chain, predators blend with their surrounding habitat.

ttdtt
Finkelstein
Terry
8 hours ago
prologos
23
Wt "study" Participation, is it a "True Believer" Indication?-- or not?
by prologos in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 17 hours ago
in our congregation, the elders rarely comment.

the majority rarely comment, 2 sisters, vehemently, and often comment.

since in their case, it can not possibly be" teaching in the congregation", is participation in the wt "study"in general an affirmation of faith?

xjwsrock
stuckinarut2
prologos
5 hours ago
DATA-DOG
4
Richard C B, this ones for you.
by DATA-DOG in Watchtower Society / JW.org
 » Beliefs, Doctrine & Practices
 a day ago
this is not an attack, just answer the questions.

1) are you an active jw?

2) http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/275576/active-jws-can-you-defend-truth?page=1.

SecretSlaveClass
DATA-DOG
DATA-DOG
9 hours ago
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