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Exmos Start The Fired - Video Tribute To Those Who Survived Five Decades of Mormonism
Posted: 11 March 2014 03:42 AM [ Ignore ]
whitesalamander
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Most exmos forty years of age or older may get a big bang from watching a fast paced image intensive blast through the past of Mormonism. There is a lot of subtle insider joke context to the images as well. Hope some of you enjoy this:
http://www.salamandersociety.com/exmofire/
Posted: 11 March 2014 05:04 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 1 ]
former victim
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Thoroughly enjoyed it along with my wake up cup of coffee this morning. Great way to start the day.
Posted: 11 March 2014 06:06 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 2 ]
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WinstonSmith
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AWESOME!!! I once tried to re-write the lyrics to this Billy Joel song about TSCC history, but I have no talent in writting. I am glad to see someone accomplished it---When is the music video comming out??? LOL
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“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.” -Marcus Aurelius
Posted: 11 March 2014 11:08 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 3 ]
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Matter Unorganized
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WinstonSmith:
AWESOME!!! I once tried to re-write the lyrics to this Billy Joel song about TSCC history, but I have no talent in writting. I am glad to see someone accomplished it---When is the music video comming out??? LOL
Click on the link that says Exmos Start The Fire. It's that easy!
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We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
You’re like the Gandhi of postmo. - Lloyd Dobler
‹‹ Check it out-Cracked.com I have a new desire to go to SM with my family...... ››
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OCTOBER CONFERENCE
"Past, Present, and Possibilities"
Oct. 18-20, 2013
Financial Report for 2011 to Date
Financial Report for 2010 to Date
Financial Report for 2009
Twin Falls Newspaper Article
Twin Falls Billboard
Financial Report for 2009 to Date
The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
[Sound Thinking]
Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
[Peep Stone!]
Native American DNA
[Post-Mormon Mag.]
Portland Oregon meetup
[Portland Post-Mor...]
Las Vegas March Meetup! Sunday 16th 1pm
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...]
General Non-Conference: Palmetto State Session
[Palmetto Post-Mor...]
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (3/2)
[San Francisco Bay...]
March Get Together
[Idaho Falls Post-...]
San Diego lunch this Sunday at noon!
[San Diego Post-Mo...]
March 2nd 2014-Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series
[Southern Utah Pos...]
FEB 22 - First ever Boston Meeting!
[Boston, MA Post-M...]
Every Sunday in Utah
[Salt Lake City Po...]
February Meetup Sunday the 16th 2:00pm Grand Cafe at Sunset Station
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...]
Secret FB group and dinner social
[East Tennessee Po...]
Feb 2nd Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series
[Southern Utah Pos...]
General Non-Conference: Palmetto State Session
Swearing Elder
General Non-Conference: Palmetto State Session
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February Meetup Sunday the 16th 2:00pm Grand Cafe at Sunset Station
onendagus
Visitors welcome !
priorvej12
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onendagus
January 5th- Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series
gypsyrose
Book of Mormon Tories
by Tom Donofrio
Book of Mormon Tories
by Nogginus Skepticalus
Native American DNA
by GTM
Ongoing Monthly Gatherings!
Reuben
Ongoing Monthly Gatherings!
Virginia Steve
CALM meet up for June
4bagel
Revised NW Women's Retreat Announcement
lunaverse
Austin Fall Party
lightrider702
Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
by Timo
Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by ExMoNemo
Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by Mikki B
Resignation Letter to My Family
Mikki B
Resignation Letter to My Family
Waveoftruth
Resignation Letter to My Family
In search of Truth
Carolina PostMo Night: “The Master"
Swearing Elder
Washington D.C. Post-Mormon Lunch - August 28
freckles
Resignation Letter to My Family
INRETROSPECT
Financial Report for 2011 to Date
by Jeff Ricks
Resignation Letter to My Family
pennw
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Church-going atheists
Posted: 10 March 2014 05:59 AM [ Ignore ]
Curious NeverMo
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I wonder if this survey of casual atheistis who choose church as part of their lives would be useful to anyone here.
I must say that it took me a very long time to get over my angry-at-churches phase and I took it as a genuine indicator of sucess when I, one day, noticed it didn't bother me to go to church events like weddings and funerals. It's also possible that remaining part of some fellowship community may help some while they're vulnerable in their effort to transition away.
Posted: 10 March 2014 07:58 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 1 ]
finex
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Not me. I can't imagine that happening any time soon either. I wouldn't feel honest about myself giving silent consent to all those believers with their faith in the magic father figure in the sky. Sure I'll let them believe in anything they like, but they shouldn't accept me to join in nor giving acceptance for anything of the sort.
Posted: 10 March 2014 08:13 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 2 ]
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Elder OldDog
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I could see a non-theist belonging to a social group that called itself a church... All those PTA/PTO meetings I went to when the kids were elementary and middle school started out with the pledge of allegiance and it didn't disturb me in the least to utter the "..., under ghawd, ..." portion. I remember once thinking that if you bent your mind just so, those two words were a reference to Hugh Hefner... "...one nation, udder ghawd, indivisible..." "Undeg ghawd" was just as silly as "...with liberty and justice for all..."
Although I will admit that an atheist hanging out in church is right up there with a non-drinker hanging out with Norm and the gang at Cheers.
Posted: 10 March 2014 10:40 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 3 ]
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Matter Unorganized
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This is all well and good for a community church, but it would never work in the mormon church. If you are there, you are assumed to be "all in" and even if you don't want to go home teaching/visiting teaching, they'll assign a route to you and your own monthly assigned teachers. If you don't want a teaching calling, they'll put you in charge of cub scouts. And if they see a flash of compliance out of you, the missionaries will be sent to your door. Someone will be assigned to offer your kids a ride to the next activity. Then someone will call you up on Friday night and remind you that the next morning you are assigned to scrape other peoples' shit off the toilets.
No thank you!
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We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
You’re like the Gandhi of postmo. - Lloyd Dobler
Posted: 10 March 2014 11:45 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 4 ]
apostate (FKA) strangite
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Lots of atheists in the Unitarian-Universalist church. It is a fellowship built on social welfare and service. No one cares if you believe in a god, wasting time is the biggest sin :+).
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“I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be”
Posted: 10 March 2014 11:56 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 5 ]
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WinstonSmith
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Matter Unorganized:
This is all well and good for a community church, but it would never work in the mormon church. If you are there, you are assumed to be "all in" and even if you don't want to go home teaching/visiting teaching, they'll assign a route to you and your own monthly assigned teachers. If you don't want a teaching calling, they'll put you in charge of cub scouts. And if they see a flash of compliance out of you, the missionaries will be sent to your door. Someone will be assigned to offer your kids a ride to the next activity. Then someone will call you up on Friday night and remind you that the next morning you are assigned to scrape other peoples' shit off the toilets.
No thank you!
A few weeks back I started contemplating that no matter what my beliefs are, I will never escape Mormonism. To even make an attempt would require for me to leave everyone and everything behind, change my identity and start over a completely new life.
I have spent a lot of time listening to pod casts of "Mormon Stories" trying to understand the concept of a "New Order Mormon"---whether I like it or not I suppose I could be labled an "New Order Mormon". My name remains on the records of TSCC, I attend many of the social events (so I can be with my family). I am attending SM about once per month (I do not participate in the sacrament or sustainings---which embarrases DW), I have been to 1 or 2 GD or PHM in about two years now.
From a religious context, I consider myself "Atheist", but the reality is, this is a major over simplification. I believe religion created god in man's image. My beliefs in a higher power are probably more in line with the "Tao". It seems for most theists, their definition for an atheist is, "Someone who does not belive God is required to have a penis". So in that context I am an "Atheist".
I made an effort these last couple of weeks to try the NOM thing, and I learned a one thing: It cannot be done for very long.
[ ] MU, I believe you are correct in this statement, but I would expand "all in" to also mean there is no diversity in thought, action, dress or deed.
I was at a ward social event this past week, and I tried to engage in conversation with a TBM who is the DH of my DW's good friend. The only conversation that he could engage, is the we are better then them (anyone outside TSCC), sterotypes of other people and culture. What really made me crack a smile, was his stereo type that every inactive member drinks alcohol.
Could this be true, we have lived in this ward for over a year. His DW and my DW are very good friends, his kids and my kids are great friends, our paths cross several times a week, and he does not realize that I am an "inactive (less) member"
LOL
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“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.” -Marcus Aurelius
Posted: 10 March 2014 12:54 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 6 ]
Curious NeverMo
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apostate (FKA) strangite:
Lots of atheists in the Unitarian-Universalist church. It is a fellowship built on social welfare and service. No one cares if you believe in God, wasting time is the biggest sin :+).
Quaker congregations welcome athestist too.
The idea isn't to encourage people to stay in Mormon wards if they don't want to or to remain "churched" if they don't want to but to feel like there are ways to cope or avoid feeling like you're jumping over a cliff.
Posted: 10 March 2014 02:33 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 7 ]
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Bold Wish
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The only church I'll ever attend . . . and if I ever see one of yooz guyz in there, I'll buy ya a beer or two!
http://www.sisterlouisaschurch.com/
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When I discovered the truth and realized the organization was lying to me, that they had always been lying to me, I felt a sting of betrayal, the humiliation from an organization who profits abundantly by violating trust. I knew that no matter what would come of it, I could no longer remain associated with the organization in any way. Since leaving, I’ve enjoyed thinking on my own, guilt is almost a foreign concept, and being in control of my life is incredibly satisfying.
Posted: 10 March 2014 05:35 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 8 ]
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Mayerbabe
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This thread is of interest to me because I'm trying to navigate my "new world" (temple pun) now that my family and I resigned last month. Of all the luck, I live in a suburb in Utah and my city is 83% LDS. I know because I just looked it up.
I'm smack-dab in the middle of raising 6 kids. To what extent do I allow them to participate in the "secular" activities the church provides? Of course, my kids are on the church's radar because they've been involved in primary and young men's/young women's up until our rather sudden resignation (no period of inactivity) last month. Just today, 8 year old son went with the scouts to visit the fire station. If any activities involve the doctrine/rituals/brainwashing of the church however, I'm not allowing my kids anywhere near there.
For me and my kids, I don't know how realistic it is to cut ties 100%. Or am I just too scared to say we're COMPLETELY out? I do have some fear going on there, unsure of myself and my ability to raise decent and ethical kids without the church. I realize this fear is coming from my 30 years of indoctrination, especially the last 14 years of being a Mormon mother. The entire sentiment, "We're so very blessed to be raising our children in the one true church and without it we would be lost as parents" is an ingrained teaching that does not completely dissipate overnight, even after learning the church is false.
Thanks for listening.
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“The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.”
― Gloria Steinem
Posted: 11 March 2014 03:44 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 9 ]
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Hitchen's Razor
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Mayerbabe:
"For me and my kids, I don't know how realistic it is to cut ties 100%. Or am I just too scared to say we're COMPLETELY out? I do have some fear going on there, unsure of myself and my ability to raise decent and ethical kids without the church."
This is certainly a fear that the church tries to instill. The "world" is painted as a place full of evil and temptation, one step outside of the comfortable arms of the church and the next thing you know, you'll be in a ditch with a needle full of heroin in your arms in their picture.
They have a harder time painting that picture outside of the Utah corridor though, where parents and kids can rub shoulders with normal parents and normal kids who are in other churches or non-religious and who live good, ethical lives. In our area, there were few young couples with new children when ours were born and someone at work recommended a mothers group for my wife. She joined and met a wonderful group of women who had children the same age. Two years later most had a second and we had this group of moms, dads and kids going through about the same things in life. We went to parties where alcohol was served, no one got crazy drunk, kids were cared for and people had fun. All of the kids are growing up learning right and wrong and surprising, or not so surprising, out of all of those families (8 I think), there have been no divorces over the past 14 years, no kids on drugs, etc.
What we've learned, and what the church doesn't want you to learn, is that you don't need religion/church to be a good person or to raise good kids. You just have to have a desire to be a good person and teach your kids to be good people. You do that by setting an example of how you treat others, by doing things as a family, by supporting each other, laughing together, etc. If you surround yourself with other families trying to do the same and actively work on conveying morals to your kids you're not going to have any lower success rate than people going to church.
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I am not that photo, on my father’s mantle. I won’t let the dust fall on my life.
-Dala, Good as Gold
Posted: 11 March 2014 05:58 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 10 ]
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Matter Unorganized
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Mayerbabe:
This thread is of interest to me because I'm trying to navigate my "new world" (temple pun) now that my family and I resigned last month. Of all the luck, I live in a suburb in Utah and my city is 83% LDS. I know because I just looked it up.
I'm smack-dab in the middle of raising 6 kids. To what extent do I allow them to participate in the "secular" activities the church provides? Of course, my kids are on the church's radar because they've been involved in primary and young men's/young women's up until our rather sudden resignation (no period of inactivity) last month. Just today, 8 year old son went with the scouts to visit the fire station. If any activities involve the doctrine/rituals/brainwashing of the church however, I'm not allowing my kids anywhere near there.
For me and my kids, I don't know how realistic it is to cut ties 100%. Or am I just too scared to say we're COMPLETELY out? I do have some fear going on there, unsure of myself and my ability to raise decent and ethical kids without the church. I realize this fear is coming from my 30 years of indoctrination, especially the last 14 years of being a Mormon mother. The entire sentiment, "We're so very blessed to be raising our children in the one true church and without it we would be lost as parents" is an ingrained teaching that does not completely dissipate overnight, even after learning the church is false.
Thanks for listening.
First, I speak with ZERO experience, having lived all my days outside the morridor. However, I've seen other threads here over the years in which people find non-LDS scout groups, non-LDS activities for their kids, non-LDS groups for parents, etc. Even in the thickest of mormon populations, do a bit of searching and you could well be surprised at what you find. Check with the BSA for a non-LDS scout troop in your area. Find a non-member teacher at the school or maybe the parent of a non-LDS child and ask them what's available. Your area may be 83% LDS, but that means it's 17% non-LDS. That's almost 2 out of every 10 people you will meet.
(And may I say, Mayerbabe, that I LOVE your tagline!)
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We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
You’re like the Gandhi of postmo. - Lloyd Dobler
‹‹ Gave a Letter to my Seminary Teacher (Did i just make a huge mistake?) Send my resignation? ››
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Total members: 9410
Wine was different in Jesus time
by dave (e_nomo)
Anyone following what is going on in London???
by priorvej12
Just when things start to go well.......
by WanderingGeek
"Katie Finds a Better Way": A Story for the "Friend" and Musicalkate (New Link)
by DrW
UPDATE on Seminary Problems
by Edmond Dantès
Depression After Resignation
by finex
Church asks activist group to reconsider plans to protest GC
by Brad (ZeeZrom)
Spin off Post "Cleaning House" - Genealogy
by quietlydifferent
Cleaning House
by blueazure
I finally bumped into some Mormon missionaries!
by Matter Unorganized
Scientology Ripped Family Apart-- Doubting (Could have an article like this on the news every night about Mormonism)
by Strong Free & Thankful
Big Bang Theory Proven--Validation for this Scientist's Life's Work--Beautiful!
by blueazure
Knock on the Door and Bad Memory
by WinstonSmith
I could use some help!
by son of perdition
Looking for fellow lost souls
by Ninon de Lenclos
Mormon Church sending people DNA test kits but refusing to comment on results?
by OldSoul
Couldn't a real prophet find that plane?
by Bold Wish
I need help more than LDS corp.
by victim
Mormon kitsch
by huehuetenango
A Daring Statement by an 8-year-old
by haylee
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OCTOBER CONFERENCE
"Past, Present, and Possibilities"
Oct. 18-20, 2013
Financial Report for 2011 to Date
Financial Report for 2010 to Date
Financial Report for 2009
Twin Falls Newspaper Article
Twin Falls Billboard
Financial Report for 2009 to Date
The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
[Sound Thinking]
Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
[Peep Stone!]
Native American DNA
[Post-Mormon Mag.]
Portland Oregon meetup
[Portland Post-Mor...]
Las Vegas March Meetup! Sunday 16th 1pm
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...]
General Non-Conference: Palmetto State Session
[Palmetto Post-Mor...]
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (3/2)
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March Get Together
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Church-going atheists
Posted: 10 March 2014 05:59 AM [ Ignore ]
Curious NeverMo
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I wonder if this survey of casual atheistis who choose church as part of their lives would be useful to anyone here.
I must say that it took me a very long time to get over my angry-at-churches phase and I took it as a genuine indicator of sucess when I, one day, noticed it didn't bother me to go to church events like weddings and funerals. It's also possible that remaining part of some fellowship community may help some while they're vulnerable in their effort to transition away.
Posted: 10 March 2014 07:58 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 1 ]
finex
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Not me. I can't imagine that happening any time soon either. I wouldn't feel honest about myself giving silent consent to all those believers with their faith in the magic father figure in the sky. Sure I'll let them believe in anything they like, but they shouldn't accept me to join in nor giving acceptance for anything of the sort.
Posted: 10 March 2014 08:13 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 2 ]
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Elder OldDog
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I could see a non-theist belonging to a social group that called itself a church... All those PTA/PTO meetings I went to when the kids were elementary and middle school started out with the pledge of allegiance and it didn't disturb me in the least to utter the "..., under ghawd, ..." portion. I remember once thinking that if you bent your mind just so, those two words were a reference to Hugh Hefner... "...one nation, udder ghawd, indivisible..." "Undeg ghawd" was just as silly as "...with liberty and justice for all..."
Although I will admit that an atheist hanging out in church is right up there with a non-drinker hanging out with Norm and the gang at Cheers.
Posted: 10 March 2014 10:40 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 3 ]
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This is all well and good for a community church, but it would never work in the mormon church. If you are there, you are assumed to be "all in" and even if you don't want to go home teaching/visiting teaching, they'll assign a route to you and your own monthly assigned teachers. If you don't want a teaching calling, they'll put you in charge of cub scouts. And if they see a flash of compliance out of you, the missionaries will be sent to your door. Someone will be assigned to offer your kids a ride to the next activity. Then someone will call you up on Friday night and remind you that the next morning you are assigned to scrape other peoples' shit off the toilets.
No thank you!
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Posted: 10 March 2014 11:45 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 4 ]
apostate (FKA) strangite
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Lots of atheists in the Unitarian-Universalist church. It is a fellowship built on social welfare and service. No one cares if you believe in a god, wasting time is the biggest sin :+).
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“I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be”
Posted: 10 March 2014 11:56 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 5 ]
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WinstonSmith
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Matter Unorganized:
This is all well and good for a community church, but it would never work in the mormon church. If you are there, you are assumed to be "all in" and even if you don't want to go home teaching/visiting teaching, they'll assign a route to you and your own monthly assigned teachers. If you don't want a teaching calling, they'll put you in charge of cub scouts. And if they see a flash of compliance out of you, the missionaries will be sent to your door. Someone will be assigned to offer your kids a ride to the next activity. Then someone will call you up on Friday night and remind you that the next morning you are assigned to scrape other peoples' shit off the toilets.
No thank you!
A few weeks back I started contemplating that no matter what my beliefs are, I will never escape Mormonism. To even make an attempt would require for me to leave everyone and everything behind, change my identity and start over a completely new life.
I have spent a lot of time listening to pod casts of "Mormon Stories" trying to understand the concept of a "New Order Mormon"---whether I like it or not I suppose I could be labled an "New Order Mormon". My name remains on the records of TSCC, I attend many of the social events (so I can be with my family). I am attending SM about once per month (I do not participate in the sacrament or sustainings---which embarrases DW), I have been to 1 or 2 GD or PHM in about two years now.
From a religious context, I consider myself "Atheist", but the reality is, this is a major over simplification. I believe religion created god in man's image. My beliefs in a higher power are probably more in line with the "Tao". It seems for most theists, their definition for an atheist is, "Someone who does not belive God is required to have a penis". So in that context I am an "Atheist".
I made an effort these last couple of weeks to try the NOM thing, and I learned a one thing: It cannot be done for very long.
[ ] MU, I believe you are correct in this statement, but I would expand "all in" to also mean there is no diversity in thought, action, dress or deed.
I was at a ward social event this past week, and I tried to engage in conversation with a TBM who is the DH of my DW's good friend. The only conversation that he could engage, is the we are better then them (anyone outside TSCC), sterotypes of other people and culture. What really made me crack a smile, was his stereo type that every inactive member drinks alcohol.
Could this be true, we have lived in this ward for over a year. His DW and my DW are very good friends, his kids and my kids are great friends, our paths cross several times a week, and he does not realize that I am an "inactive (less) member"
LOL
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Posted: 10 March 2014 12:54 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 6 ]
Curious NeverMo
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apostate (FKA) strangite:
Lots of atheists in the Unitarian-Universalist church. It is a fellowship built on social welfare and service. No one cares if you believe in God, wasting time is the biggest sin :+).
Quaker congregations welcome athestist too.
The idea isn't to encourage people to stay in Mormon wards if they don't want to or to remain "churched" if they don't want to but to feel like there are ways to cope or avoid feeling like you're jumping over a cliff.
Posted: 10 March 2014 02:33 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 7 ]
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Bold Wish
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The only church I'll ever attend . . . and if I ever see one of yooz guyz in there, I'll buy ya a beer or two!
http://www.sisterlouisaschurch.com/
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When I discovered the truth and realized the organization was lying to me, that they had always been lying to me, I felt a sting of betrayal, the humiliation from an organization who profits abundantly by violating trust. I knew that no matter what would come of it, I could no longer remain associated with the organization in any way. Since leaving, I’ve enjoyed thinking on my own, guilt is almost a foreign concept, and being in control of my life is incredibly satisfying.
Posted: 10 March 2014 05:35 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 8 ]
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This thread is of interest to me because I'm trying to navigate my "new world" (temple pun) now that my family and I resigned last month. Of all the luck, I live in a suburb in Utah and my city is 83% LDS. I know because I just looked it up.
I'm smack-dab in the middle of raising 6 kids. To what extent do I allow them to participate in the "secular" activities the church provides? Of course, my kids are on the church's radar because they've been involved in primary and young men's/young women's up until our rather sudden resignation (no period of inactivity) last month. Just today, 8 year old son went with the scouts to visit the fire station. If any activities involve the doctrine/rituals/brainwashing of the church however, I'm not allowing my kids anywhere near there.
For me and my kids, I don't know how realistic it is to cut ties 100%. Or am I just too scared to say we're COMPLETELY out? I do have some fear going on there, unsure of myself and my ability to raise decent and ethical kids without the church. I realize this fear is coming from my 30 years of indoctrination, especially the last 14 years of being a Mormon mother. The entire sentiment, "We're so very blessed to be raising our children in the one true church and without it we would be lost as parents" is an ingrained teaching that does not completely dissipate overnight, even after learning the church is false.
Thanks for listening.
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Posted: 11 March 2014 03:44 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 9 ]
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Hitchen's Razor
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Mayerbabe:
"For me and my kids, I don't know how realistic it is to cut ties 100%. Or am I just too scared to say we're COMPLETELY out? I do have some fear going on there, unsure of myself and my ability to raise decent and ethical kids without the church."
This is certainly a fear that the church tries to instill. The "world" is painted as a place full of evil and temptation, one step outside of the comfortable arms of the church and the next thing you know, you'll be in a ditch with a needle full of heroin in your arms in their picture.
They have a harder time painting that picture outside of the Utah corridor though, where parents and kids can rub shoulders with normal parents and normal kids who are in other churches or non-religious and who live good, ethical lives. In our area, there were few young couples with new children when ours were born and someone at work recommended a mothers group for my wife. She joined and met a wonderful group of women who had children the same age. Two years later most had a second and we had this group of moms, dads and kids going through about the same things in life. We went to parties where alcohol was served, no one got crazy drunk, kids were cared for and people had fun. All of the kids are growing up learning right and wrong and surprising, or not so surprising, out of all of those families (8 I think), there have been no divorces over the past 14 years, no kids on drugs, etc.
What we've learned, and what the church doesn't want you to learn, is that you don't need religion/church to be a good person or to raise good kids. You just have to have a desire to be a good person and teach your kids to be good people. You do that by setting an example of how you treat others, by doing things as a family, by supporting each other, laughing together, etc. If you surround yourself with other families trying to do the same and actively work on conveying morals to your kids you're not going to have any lower success rate than people going to church.
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Posted: 11 March 2014 05:58 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 10 ]
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Matter Unorganized
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Mayerbabe:
This thread is of interest to me because I'm trying to navigate my "new world" (temple pun) now that my family and I resigned last month. Of all the luck, I live in a suburb in Utah and my city is 83% LDS. I know because I just looked it up.
I'm smack-dab in the middle of raising 6 kids. To what extent do I allow them to participate in the "secular" activities the church provides? Of course, my kids are on the church's radar because they've been involved in primary and young men's/young women's up until our rather sudden resignation (no period of inactivity) last month. Just today, 8 year old son went with the scouts to visit the fire station. If any activities involve the doctrine/rituals/brainwashing of the church however, I'm not allowing my kids anywhere near there.
For me and my kids, I don't know how realistic it is to cut ties 100%. Or am I just too scared to say we're COMPLETELY out? I do have some fear going on there, unsure of myself and my ability to raise decent and ethical kids without the church. I realize this fear is coming from my 30 years of indoctrination, especially the last 14 years of being a Mormon mother. The entire sentiment, "We're so very blessed to be raising our children in the one true church and without it we would be lost as parents" is an ingrained teaching that does not completely dissipate overnight, even after learning the church is false.
Thanks for listening.
First, I speak with ZERO experience, having lived all my days outside the morridor. However, I've seen other threads here over the years in which people find non-LDS scout groups, non-LDS activities for their kids, non-LDS groups for parents, etc. Even in the thickest of mormon populations, do a bit of searching and you could well be surprised at what you find. Check with the BSA for a non-LDS scout troop in your area. Find a non-member teacher at the school or maybe the parent of a non-LDS child and ask them what's available. Your area may be 83% LDS, but that means it's 17% non-LDS. That's almost 2 out of every 10 people you will meet.
(And may I say, Mayerbabe, that I LOVE your tagline!)
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Church Buildings Vandalized in Idaho…..(news link)
Posted: 26 February 2014 04:47 PM [ Ignore ]
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http://www.localnews8.com/news/fbi-offers-reward-in-church-vandalism-case/-/308662/24694478/-/82puvlz/-/index.html
And I'm being indirectly (albiet very indirectly) blamed. This story was emailed to me by a (now ex) friend that said..
"I have noticed you becoming more outspoken against the church lately. This is the kind of thing that happens when people critize the church and incite anger. You need to stop."
There was more to the email, asking me to stop posting things on facebook and the such that is "anti" mormon, and calling me to repentance because as a conerned friend she just wants to see me back in the church and happy. Barf.
Anyways, the building was vandalized with the phrase "you will pay for what you've done" and "Burn mormons", and the crime is being investigated as a hate crime by the FBI. I was absoutely floored when I got this email saying that it's people (including myself specifically) speaking out against the church and inciting anger that is responsible for things like this. Absoutely no responsibility put on the actual person that did this. Nope, it's my fault. But "you will pay for what you've done" sounds like someone who has been harmed in some way acting out. And before anyone says that sounds like I'm condong this, I'm not. I do not believe in causing damage to get a point across. After having a good cry about being treated so horribly by someone I thought was a friend, I just felt the need to vent. Thanks for being a soft place to land.
Edited to add: It was more than one building, with several other things also painted on, such as genatalia and the such.
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Posted: 26 February 2014 05:06 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 1 ]
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That's quite the "friend" you have there! Is the friendship worth saving? If so, don't reply with snark.
Here are my suggestions, for what they're worth. You know her better than I do, so you may have better insight as to what will work with her and what won't.
Ask her if she believes in the Articles of Faith. Most surely she will answer yes.
Then remind her that men will be punished for THEIR OWN sins, not for Adam's transgression. She CANNOT pin the acts of others upon you!
Also, JUDGE NOT, as it says in the Bible. She CANNOT judge you for what you put on facebook and the cause-effect it may have on others. That is un-christlike and morally irresponsible.
You might ask her to read this talk by President Uchtdorf from last conference, specifically this part:
-
The search for truth has led millions of people to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. However, there are some who leave the Church they once loved.
One might ask, “If the gospel is so wonderful, why would anyone leave?”
Sometimes we assume it is because they have been offended or lazy or sinful. Actually, it is not that simple. In fact, there is not just one reason that applies to the variety of situations.
Some of our dear members struggle for years with the question whether they should separate themselves from the Church.
In this Church that honors personal agency so strongly, that was restored by a young man who asked questions and sought answers, we respect those who honestly search for truth. It may break our hearts when their journey takes them away from the Church we love and the truth we have found, but we honor their right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own conscience, just as we claim that privilege for ourselves.
You may also wish to tell her that it is not right or fair of her to judge you or call you out on your beliefs until she gives you the opportunity to explain why you now believe the way you do. (Of course, she probably won't take you up on that!)
Finally, remind her that Facebook was not developed as a soapbox for religionists. She is just as welcome to post her own views as you are. If she doesn't like it, she can block your comments or unfriend you. You are 100% within your rights to say what you want on facebook, as is she.
Your mileage may vary.
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You’re like the Gandhi of postmo. - Lloyd Dobler
Posted: 26 February 2014 07:48 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 2 ]
Free2Live
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AprilT:
http://www.localnews8.com/news/fbi-offers-reward-in-church-vandalism-case/-/308662/24694478/-/82puvlz/-/index.html
And I'm being indirectly (albiet very indirectly) blamed. This story was emailed to me by a (now ex) friend that said..
"I have noticed you becoming more outspoken against the church lately. This is the kind of thing that happens when people critize the church and incite anger. You need to stop."
There was more to the email, asking me to stop posting things on facebook and the such that is "anti" mormon, and calling me to repentance because as a conerned friend she just wants to see me back in the church and happy. Barf.
Anyways, the building was vandalized with the phrase "you will pay for what you've done" and "Burn mormons", and the crime is being investigated as a hate crime by the FBI. I was absoutely floored when I got this email saying that it's people (including myself specifically) speaking out against the church and inciting anger that is responsible for things like this. Absoutely no responsibility put on the actual person that did this. Nope, it's my fault. But "you will pay for what you've done" sounds like someone who has been harmed in some way acting out. And before anyone says that sounds like I'm condong this, I'm not. I do not believe in causing damage to get a point across. After having a good cry about being treated so horribly by someone I thought was a friend, I just felt the need to vent. Thanks for being a soft place to land.
Edited to add: It was more than one building, with several other things also painted on, such as genatalia and the such.
I think this harassment email to you needs looked at with a lawyer with the possibility of legal action toward this imbecile of a so called friend. It in itself deserves newspaper and television airtime.
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Posted: 26 February 2014 08:28 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 3 ]
Strong Free & Thankful
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FreeLive:
AprilT:
http://www.localnews8.com/news/fbi-offers-reward-in-church-vandalism-case/-/308662/24694478/-/82puvlz/-/index.html
And I'm being indirectly (albiet very indirectly) blamed. This story was emailed to me by a (now ex) friend that said..
"I have noticed you becoming more outspoken against the church lately. This is the kind of thing that happens when people critize the church and incite anger. You need to stop."
There was more to the email, asking me to stop posting things on facebook and the such that is "anti" mormon, and calling me to repentance because as a conerned friend she just wants to see me back in the church and happy. Barf.
Anyways, the building was vandalized with the phrase "you will pay for what you've done" and "Burn mormons", and the crime is being investigated as a hate crime by the FBI. I was absoutely floored when I got this email saying that it's people (including myself specifically) speaking out against the church and inciting anger that is responsible for things like this. Absoutely no responsibility put on the actual person that did this. Nope, it's my fault. But "you will pay for what you've done" sounds like someone who has been harmed in some way acting out. And before anyone says that sounds like I'm condong this, I'm not. I do not believe in causing damage to get a point across. After having a good cry about being treated so horribly by someone I thought was a friend, I just felt the need to vent. Thanks for being a soft place to land.
Edited to add: It was more than one building, with several other things also painted on, such as genatalia and the such.
I think this harassment email to you needs looked at with a lawyer with the possibility of legal action toward this imbecile of a so called friend. It in itself deserves newspaper and television airtime.
If obtaining an attorney sounds too expensive, you might check into Legal Shield. The company has been around since 1972 and is very legit. For $17 a month, you have unlimited access to advice from an attorney--every business day, unlimited questions. They will also make a free phone call or write a free letter--say to your ex-friend. There is a one time enrollment fee of $10 and that is it. No long term contract. Cancel anytime. They are out of Ada, OK. If you end up with a local LDS attorney and he/she does not treat you right, you can complain to the home office and get a new attorney. I have had it for years and sell it but am not in your state. You can sign up on the web. LegalShield.com. They will defend you if someone trys to sue you for free up to so many hours that grow every year. Great product for the price. Sorry about your jerk friend. You don't need that false friend. You have us and we rock!
Posted: 26 February 2014 09:10 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 4 ]
Curious NeverMo
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It may help to consider how very real rejection of churches and organized religion is becoming. Of course, you are in NO WAY responsible for what an out of control person does and you're in NO WAY responsible to someone who is, basically, panicking and lashing out. Who knows? She may even be a person beginning to wrestle with her own doubts or someone who resents that you've been brave enough to chart your own course.
Posted: 26 February 2014 10:13 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 5 ]
sak_pase
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I'm a free-speech absolutist. People are entitled to say what they want.
It's when voices aren't heard or are suppressed that people find other ways of making their feelings known. Put another way, putting your thoughts into words means you generally don't have to put your feelings into violence.
The people who did this should be found and punished. Whatever one's feelings about an institution are, the proper course to redress bad speech (whether it be anti-gay or something) is more speech.
It's unfortunate your friend is blaming you for this.
Corollary to this, we should all realize that people are usually satisfied to express themselves with speech. All too often various groups and individuals get labeled unjustly as violent because we disagree with what they've said. A few examples -- like equating Mormons to the Taliban (they're not), the Tea Party with violent insurrectionists, Democrats with Communists (and by extension, N. Korea / Cuba) have even been expressed on this board. Just as we all should realize our own speech doesn't legitimize any kind of violence, violence is not the intent of those we disagree with either.
Posted: 27 February 2014 12:17 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 6 ]
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Hitchen's Razor
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FreeLive:
AprilT:
http://www.localnews8.com/news/fbi-offers-reward-in-church-vandalism-case/-/308662/24694478/-/82puvlz/-/index.html
And I'm being indirectly (albiet very indirectly) blamed. This story was emailed to me by a (now ex) friend that said..
"I have noticed you becoming more outspoken against the church lately. This is the kind of thing that happens when people critize the church and incite anger. You need to stop."
There was more to the email, asking me to stop posting things on facebook and the such that is "anti" mormon, and calling me to repentance because as a conerned friend she just wants to see me back in the church and happy. Barf.
Anyways, the building was vandalized with the phrase "you will pay for what you've done" and "Burn mormons", and the crime is being investigated as a hate crime by the FBI. I was absoutely floored when I got this email saying that it's people (including myself specifically) speaking out against the church and inciting anger that is responsible for things like this. Absoutely no responsibility put on the actual person that did this. Nope, it's my fault. But "you will pay for what you've done" sounds like someone who has been harmed in some way acting out. And before anyone says that sounds like I'm condong this, I'm not. I do not believe in causing damage to get a point across. After having a good cry about being treated so horribly by someone I thought was a friend, I just felt the need to vent. Thanks for being a soft place to land.
Edited to add: It was more than one building, with several other things also painted on, such as genatalia and the such.
I think this harassment email to you needs looked at with a lawyer with the possibility of legal action toward this imbecile of a so called friend. It in itself deserves newspaper and television airtime.
Certainly in poor taste and par for course with TBMs "defending the faith, but likely not something for which you'd have a cause of action. Had your "friend" taken out a flier blaming you, or started talking about you and blaming you publicly (and especially if this happened in your community and you'd suffered reputational harm), you might have a claim for libel or slander (libel = written/literature, slander = spoken...that's the easy way to remember which applies in each case). Just a personal email, that's much more of a stretch unless there's a larger pattern of harassment or bullying.*
*Disclaimer - the foregoing does not constitute legal advice, nor does it form an attorney client relationship between us. If you feel you need advice of counsel, please contact your own legal counsel.
As another aside, we're far to litigious as a society. generally, I think suing someone should be the very last course of action after all attempts at handling things civilly break down.
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Posted: 27 February 2014 12:22 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 7 ]
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sak_pase:
I'm a free-speech absolutist.
I like the great points that you have made however I do not agree that false allegation innuendo or the start of a snotty rumor is legal or moral. Therefore I think they may say what they wish but they must be ready for repercussions for provably false statements. I do believe that there is a fraud case now being processed in the UK over untruths that can be proved false.
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Posted: 27 February 2014 06:05 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 8 ]
sak_pase
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FreeLive:
sak_pase:
I'm a free-speech absolutist.
I like the great points that you have made however I do not agree that false allegation innuendo or the start of a snotty rumor is legal or moral. Therefore I think they may say what they wish but they must be ready for repercussions for provably false statements. I do believe that there is a fraud case now being processed in the UK over untruths that can be proved false.
My point was intended to be in your favor. Namely, that what you say -- unless it's a direct incitement to violence or damage -- in no way makes you responsible for what others do.
It's a two-edged sword. You're free to say bad things about the church. Its members are free to say bad things about you. Unless they've made false claims about your responsibility (ie, accused you directly over the pulpit) in the crime, it doesn't make what they're saying illegal. We can see for ourselves whose speech is winning out.
Many European democracies still have anti-blasphemy laws on the books. Here's one such example from Greece:
http://www.volokh.com/2014/01/19/prison-blasphemy/
Imagine how much harder it would be to operate sites like this in a country where blasphemy is still a crime
The LDS church is a uniquely American church. I believe it'll go away in a uniquely American fashion -- destroyed not by government fiat or by men with torches, but by the words of its departed members.
Posted: 27 February 2014 06:18 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 9 ]
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Jeff Ricks
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AprilT:
http://www.localnews8.com/news/fbi-offers-reward-in-church-vandalism-case/-/308662/24694478/-/82puvlz/-/index.html
And I'm being indirectly (albiet very indirectly) blamed. This story was emailed to me by a (now ex) friend that said..
"I have noticed you becoming more outspoken against the church lately. This is the kind of thing that happens when people critize the church and incite anger. You need to stop."
There was more to the email, asking me to stop posting things on facebook and the such that is "anti" mormon, and calling me to repentance because as a conerned friend she just wants to see me back in the church and happy. Barf.
Anyways, the building was vandalized with the phrase "you will pay for what you've done" and "Burn mormons", and the crime is being investigated as a hate crime by the FBI. I was absoutely floored when I got this email saying that it's people (including myself specifically) speaking out against the church and inciting anger that is responsible for things like this. Absoutely no responsibility put on the actual person that did this. Nope, it's my fault. But "you will pay for what you've done" sounds like someone who has been harmed in some way acting out. And before anyone says that sounds like I'm condong this, I'm not. I do not believe in causing damage to get a point across. After having a good cry about being treated so horribly by someone I thought was a friend, I just felt the need to vent. Thanks for being a soft place to land.
Edited to add: It was more than one building, with several other things also painted on, such as genatalia and the such.
Keep in mind that you're (we're) just the messenger. The root cause of the criticism lies with the liars that lead the church.
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Posted: 27 February 2014 07:03 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 10 ]
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MauEvig
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I think as angry as I was with TSCC at the time I'd left, I wouldn't go as far as to write graffiti on the walls of the church building.
I don't think it's fair that your friend is making these false accusations against you, but I would definitely try the peaceful approach first and use her "gospal" against her so to speak, just as people pointed out earlier in this thread.
I think before seeking legal action, you have to remember that this "friend" has been brain washed in the church, and therefore is more likely to blame such actions on their nearest target, someone who has left the church, than to actually blame the real person. I actually think that may be human nature. Obviously someone was butt hurt by the church and lashed out at it, and so they assume that you're associated with this nonsense because you left. We all know that isn't true, but that's probably how your "friend" sees it. I would try to reconcile your friendship first, and get to the legal actions later. A good friendship should remain a friendship even if you leave a church. I have a friend who is still a BAC and while we do get into some political and religious arguments, I still view him as a brother after 18 years. I think there is hope, but a friendship is something you both need to work at. I'd also encourage your friend that you're not going to force her to leave the church either, and that you're welcome to respect her beliefs, but ask that she respects yours in return.
Posted: 27 February 2014 07:31 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 11 ]
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Tessa
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Making a guess here, but would be willing to bet one Idaho Lottery ticket, that the "vandals" are members of the buildings' wards. Disgruntled teenagers.
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Posted: 27 February 2014 08:31 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 12 ]
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kinderhooker
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Tessa:
Making a guess here, but would be willing to bet one Idaho Lottery ticket, that the "vandals" are members of the buildings' wards. Disgruntled teenagers.
Based on the non-textual content of the graffiti (i.e. genital iconography) I think you're probably right!
I wonder whether they're upset about them and their friends being coerced to have conversations of a sexual nature with creepy bishops, or whether they're upset more generally about the whole clusterfunk that is Mormonism. While violence and vandalism are inappropriate, we know the church doesn't respond to direct communication from the people it coerces. In the case of teens, that coercion usually takes place under the endorsement of parental authority.
What avenue of expression is left for the unbelieving LDS teenager? Non-confidential therapy sessions with LDS Social Services? Arguments with authoritarian parents or bishops with whom said parents will force them to have private interviews every six months? Graffiti is what you get for sexually harassing teens who figure out the con but are powerless to escape.
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Posted: 27 February 2014 08:51 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 13 ]
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Silver Girl
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kinderhooker:
Tessa:
Making a guess here, but would be willing to bet one Idaho Lottery ticket, that the "vandals" are members of the buildings' wards. Disgruntled teenagers.
Based on the non-textual content of the graffiti (i.e. genital iconography) I think you're probably right!
I wonder whether they're upset about them and their friends being coerced to have conversations of a sexual nature with creepy bishops, or whether they're upset more generally about the whole clusterfunk that is Mormonism. While violence and vandalism are inappropriate, we know the church doesn't respond to direct communication from the people it coerces. In the case of teens, that coercion usually takes place under the endorsement of parental authority.
What avenue of expression is left for the unbelieving LDS teenager? Non-confidential therapy sessions with LDS Social Services? Arguments with authoritarian parents or bishops with whom said parents will force them to have private interviews every six months? Graffiti is what you get for sexually harassing teens who figure out the con but are powerless to escape.
Great observations!!
I, like the rest here, can only guess as to who might have been behind the graffiti and what motivated them....but kinderhooker's description of the situation many Mormon teens find themselves in is accurate and striking.
Sexually harassed and powerless to escape
I can certainly see how this could lead to acting out.
SG
Posted: 27 February 2014 09:02 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 14 ]
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Silver Girl
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AprilT:
http://www.localnews8.com/news/fbi-offers-reward-in-church-vandalism-case/-/308662/24694478/-/82puvlz/-/index.html
And I'm being indirectly (albiet very indirectly) blamed. This story was emailed to me by a (now ex) friend that said..
"I have noticed you becoming more outspoken against the church lately. This is the kind of thing that happens when people critize the church and incite anger. You need to stop."
There was more to the email, asking me to stop posting things on facebook and the such that is "anti" mormon, and calling me to repentance because as a conerned friend she just wants to see me back in the church and happy. Barf.
Anyways, the building was vandalized with the phrase "you will pay for what you've done" and "Burn mormons", and the crime is being investigated as a hate crime by the FBI. I was absoutely floored when I got this email saying that it's people (including myself specifically) speaking out against the church and inciting anger that is responsible for things like this. Absoutely no responsibility put on the actual person that did this. Nope, it's my fault. But "you will pay for what you've done" sounds like someone who has been harmed in some way acting out. And before anyone says that sounds like I'm condong this, I'm not. I do not believe in causing damage to get a point across. After having a good cry about being treated so horribly by someone I thought was a friend, I just felt the need to vent. Thanks for being a soft place to land.
Edited to add: It was more than one building, with several other things also painted on, such as genatalia and the such.
I'm so sorry you experienced this from your "friend." Her comments are, frankly, appalling.
As you can see, you have lot's of support here, I too am glad you had this soft place to land.
SG
Posted: 27 February 2014 10:12 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 15 ]
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AprilT
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Now that I've had a day to let this marinate, I'm inclined to believe that my friend was upset about the vandalism (she lives close, though not in the same town) and lashed out at the first person she could think of. I haven't replied at this point, I don't know if I ever will. I think I'm more inclined to just let it be and walk myself out of her life. The funny thing is, I don't use facebook for anything besides sharing family news, and things of that nature. I did post one picture of me wearing a tank top (gasp!) and a comment on the recent ensign article that has been talked about on other threads. The only place I talk about my experience leaving is here, and on my personal blog, which I think has 5 readers now. LOL!
Judging by the vandalism itself, I'm inclined to agree that it looks like teenagers. I'm keeping an open mind because of the phrase "you'll pay for what you've done". I just hope and pray that whatever was done was not something like child rape or physical abuse, and was more just being uncomfortable being asked about masturbation. I always think there are better ways of seeking restitution for some wrong against you besides criminal acts. How sad it would be if it is someone who has been harmed and felt like this was the only way to be heard.
Thank you all for the advice, and for helping me bring it back into perspective. I tend to be sensitive sometimes and take things more personally than I probably should. It's pretty great having somewhere I feel safe while working through these things.
And thank you for the information on legal aid. I have saved that information for future use on some other things that I thought I had run out of options for. Forever grateful!
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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. ~Edmund Burke
Posted: 27 February 2014 12:01 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 16 ]
Free2Live
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Thank you both sak_pase and Hitchen's Razor for following up on the legal review for the possibilities of litigation on this breach of friendship of AprilT's nomorefriend. I for one would not stand still and roll over like a good TBM and let it slide. I would start looking into the news story outlets on this fear mongering religionists "(albeit very indirectly blamed)" message statements. This next level of harassment is news worthy. Blind retaliatory blasts out into cyber-space with no facts are no better than the original graffiti and in my opinion may be worse where an innocent known 'friend' is targeted to be hit by the HATE arrow. I especially did like the follow up commentaries that fleshed out possible motivations that most likely a youth involved in the "trespassing and vandalism" is the story in the first place. People do have to talk and deal with frustrations especially when the so called church only adds to the dung heap of moral infringement. I too add my supporting vote that some youth most likely is hurting and there most likely is an ugly story of abuse by the monster of the church corporation in adding to that pain. As I wrote originally but has been not talked about, "It in itself deserves newspaper and television airtime." This internet attack is a news worthy story. Thank you for divulging this experience AprilT!
With our absolute free speech I can wonder out loud if maybe that ex friend has a few other friends in the news lately... One may have went and bought up all the t-shirts in a store. Another one may have started a blog about a movie Frozen. Many others , so many others.
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Posted: 27 February 2014 02:39 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 17 ]
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Hitchen's Razor
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FreeLive:
"Thank you both sak_pase and Hitchen's Razor for following up on the legal review for the possibilities of litigation on this breach of friendship of AprilT's nomorefriend. I for one would not stand still and roll over like a good TBM and let it slide."
I'm not an advocate for rolling over and letting things slide, just a fan of jumping to "sue them" as the first solution for anything, ever. If you haven't seen it yet, I posted a long back and forth I had with a long ago ex/super TBM where my last words ended up being "F$%& off" I don't back down when prodded enough. Given that I am an attorney by training, I can be tenacious and potentially obnoxious in a verbal or written back and forth if the other side decides to continue prodding me, but unless something was actionable AND I thought that something would actually be gained in exchange for my giving more than two F&%4s, I'd find another way to add friction/pain to the other person at the lowest investment of my time/resources.
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Posted: 27 February 2014 04:14 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 18 ]
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Born Free
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Re: "I have noticed you becoming more outspoken against the church lately. This is the kind of thing that happens when people critize the church and incite anger. You need to stop."
I love how in the siege mentality Mormon mind, criticism = incite anger.
This is first cousin to the Mormon 'dissention confusion'.
Sorry former friend, in the real world people can explore difference in an attempt to better approach a sound understanding of issues. In MormonLaLaLand leaders are too fragile to accomodate critique, and the only history acceptable has been thorougherly laundered.
And regularly re-laundered.
In addition to learning how to spell as part of a broader familiaristion with the concept of of healthy criticism, this person suffers from the common Mormon boundary ailment - blindness. They feel anger about the criticism (as conditioned), they confuse their anger with 'attackers anger', and therefore you should be contrained.
Who knew so much sloppy thinking skills could be exposed in just three sentences.
Daryl
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Posted: 27 February 2014 04:58 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 19 ]
sak_pase
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Hitchen&#;s Razor:
FreeLive:
"Thank you both sak_pase and Hitchen's Razor for following up on the legal review for the possibilities of litigation on this breach of friendship of AprilT's nomorefriend. I for one would not stand still and roll over like a good TBM and let it slide."
I'm not an advocate for rolling over and letting things slide, just a fan of jumping to "sue them" as the first solution for anything, ever. If you haven't seen it yet, I posted a long back and forth I had with a long ago ex/super TBM where my last words ended up being "F$%& off" I don't back down when prodded enough. Given that I am an attorney by training, I can be tenacious and potentially obnoxious in a verbal or written back and forth if the other side decides to continue prodding me, but unless something was actionable AND I thought that something would actually be gained in exchange for my giving more than two F&%4s, I'd find another way to add friction/pain to the other person at the lowest investment of my time/resources.
People whose first instinct is to say "Sue them!" have probably never been on either the receiving or delivering end of a lawsuit. And in the US, people can spread rumor and innuendo all they want. The First Amendment doesn't exist to protect nice people saying polite things to each other. It exists so that people may say ugly things -- the Westboro Baptist Church's anti-homosexual screeds, the OWS's intimidation of bankers, the Tea Party's vehement anti-Obama stance.
I'm not an attorney, but I usually end up having to do one or two pro se cases a year regarding rental collections. I don't care for it, even though I've never lost.
As you said, there are much, much better ways to get problems addressed than threatening lawsuits.
Posted: 27 February 2014 05:42 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 20 ]
Free2Live
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sak_pase:
Hitchen's Razor:
Both of you keep typing about lawsuits when you already said that is not a possibility. (of which I thanked you) I reiterated the use of newspaper television or other media to get this next level of harassment story that AprilT is the recipient of out there. That internet bullshit of a threat and lie in itself is news worthy. That is what I thought I wrote. What is it that you two are getting worked up about? Being worked up ought to be about how idiot lds exfriend accuses a good woman with ultra false accusations. So it isn't a practical and lawyer profitable case. It is a moral disgrace and it is newsworthy..."In My Opinion!".
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Posted: 27 February 2014 09:29 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 21 ]
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Hitchen's Razor
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FreeLive:
sak_pase:
Hitchen's Razor:
Both of you keep typing about lawsuits when you already said that is not a possibility. (of which I thanked you) I reiterated the use of newspaper television or other media to get this next level of harassment story that AprilT is the recipient of out there. That internet bullshit of a threat and lie in itself is news worthy. That is what I thought I wrote. What is it that you two are getting worked up about? Being worked up ought to be about how idiot lds exfriend accuses a good woman with ultra false accusations. So it isn't a practical and lawyer profitable case. It is a moral disgrace and it is newsworthy..."In My Opinion!".
In my case I was responding to your post, where you seemed to imply that a failure to trounce on an opportunity to focus public discussion on a private email equated to rolling over. Again, I'm an advocate of making a strong response to idiots out there who disparage you. However, I think in this case it's a battle best fought privately (and if AprilT wants, repeated to the crowd here, who would probably enjoy seeing the back and forth with an irrational TBM, or share it anonymously on Quora as a cautionary tale about TBM obsession with ex-mormons).
I think your suggestion of calling the press is not the greatest use of anyone's time. It is not really newsworthy. To call the press about it would end up looking petty in comparison to the crime of painting graffiti that could be considered hate speech in some jurisdictions (though I agree with the consensus opinion that the person adding the graffiti is likely someone who was part of the church and wronged in some way, rather than an outsider, which can play into whether the crime would be prosecuted as a hate crime).
Then again, I could have been reading too much into your original response. At some point someone asked what an attorney would think. I'm an attorney, so I responded with what most rational attorneys would say. My follow on response included what most rational people would add if their friend said....I'm so mad about that private email, I think ill call the newspaper and see if they'll write a story about this person trying to blame me privately for creating an environment that they think led someone to think committing this crime was ok. Most friends would say, "you'll end up being the one who looks crazy for bringing that up to the press."
Stepping away from the mike on this one now.
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Posted: 28 February 2014 05:39 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 22 ]
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GraciesDaddy
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Methinks that anyone who would take the effort to do this has a much deeper affectation toward TSCC than the ex-mormons here and other places online would have. This has become personal ["you will pay for what you have done"] for them and the retaliation and condemnation and threats to the "eternal life" of members, i.e., "burn mormans" [sic] does bring this into the realm of a hate crime. Someone, likely even a never-mo, has a problem with the mo'org and was willing to display their hostility openly... Even under the cover of darkness.
But this did take a concerted effort... Buying/stealing a can [or cans] of paint, waiting until they knew the building would be unoccupied, taking the time to spray more than one wall and that L-O-N-G phrase all the while running the risk of getting caught, all these aspects, taken together, compile an anger... No, a HATRED of the COJCOLDS. I'm willing to bank on some post-pubescent male whose girlfriend dumped him because he isn't a member!
Meanwhile, AprilT... Send your "friend" to MY FaceBook page... S/He will get their fill of marriage equality, pro-choice and anti-religion that their hair'll catch fire and they'll run off into the hills.
"Problem" solved.
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The above post is merely the experience, observation and perspective of a NeverMo, offered in support of the members of PostMormon.org
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Posted: 05 March 2014 01:22 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 23 ]
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AprilT
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So I have been away from the interwebz for a few days (which can actually be a relief sometimes), so I just now caught up on this thread today. Thanks again for being such a soft place to land, and a great place for discussion! I love that we can have discussions and be respectful at the same time. That's something that I'm not seeing much anymore.
Anyways, a quick update on my "friend". She emailed me again this morning. She said that she had wondered why I hadn't responded so she re-read what she had sent to me. She (with lots of little frowny faces) said she realized what she had said, and fully understood why I had not responded, then procedded to apologize profusely and try to assure me that she in no way menat that I was responsible for the damage to the buildings. That she was just concerned about my dissaffection and wanted to point out what "anti's" were doing. I have not responded yet, but being the person I am, I'll probably just let it go and slowly walk myself out of her life, which won't be hard since most of my mormon friends refuse to speak with me anymore. At least she recoganized that what she said to me was very inappropriate.
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Posted: 05 March 2014 04:22 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 24 ]
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Tessa
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Sometimes just "letting it go" is the best. Congratz.
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin
Posted: 05 March 2014 11:00 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 25 ]
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Zman
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I don't condone vandalizing someone's property mind that was done to the Nauvoo Expositor. What's worse than this is vandalizing people's lives with false promises. Breaking up families. Causing some to take their own lives because they don't fit the mold. Telling them they wont go to heaven if they don't obey every word. That others are 'unrighteous' who don't follow their way. That they must be like robots and dress alike. What is worse than the graffiti is not telling the truth and leading people to waste their entire lives. To think and speak for yourself is rebellion. Like in the matrix movie some would rather be part of the illusion. Ignorance is bliss as it is said.
‹‹ Reference to Mormon leaders saying it is OK to question Has TSCC made it known where they stand on ... ››
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Removing name from Church records
Posted: 04 March 2014 09:25 AM [ Ignore ]
HeatherMFT
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Joined 2014-03-03
Hi Everyone,
This is acutally my first post...Im new
I was raised in the Church, a RM, and even worked in the temple. At age 28 I started to feel nothing when I would attend church. I have been inactive and disfellowshiped for 4 years now...and couldnt be happier! I left because when I questioned myself and my own inner divinity, it just didnt allign with the Church. I am just now learning about how much the Church is lying to its members and how false it actually is!!!
I never thought I would be that person who would request to remove my name from the Church records..but I know that I will never return to the Church, and just wanted some insight from those who have done it or have thought about it.
Posted: 04 March 2014 09:33 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 1 ]
Ninon de Lenclos
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HeatherMFT:
Hi Everyone,
This is acutally my first post...Im new
I was raised in the Church, a RM, and even worked in the temple. At age 28 I started to feel nothing when I would attend church. I have been inactive and disfellowshiped for 4 years now...and couldnt be happier! I left because when I questioned myself and my own inner divinity, it just didnt allign with the Church. I am just now learning about how much the Church is lying to its members and how false it actually is!!!
I never thought I would be that person who would request to remove my name from the Church records..but I know that I will never return to the Church, and just wanted some insight from those who have done it or have thought about it.
Hi, Heather...
Welcome to postmo!!!
We're very happy you joined us!!!
Posted: 04 March 2014 09:49 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 2 ]
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The Bishop's Son
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Hello!
We're glad you're here! I am glad you posted this topic because I've been wondering the same thing. I have a resignation letter prepped but I'm just waiting for the right time to send it out.
I've done a little research online and I have found these sites to be helpful
http://www.mormonresignation.com
http://www.exmormon.org/remove.htm
http://www.mormonnomore.com
But I would also love to hear from people who have gone through the process. My dad is a bishop and all of my family and extended family are very deeply rooted TBM southern Utah royalty. I want out so bad but sending in that letter quietly and just leaving and staying under the radar is virtually impossible for me. But I've reached a point where I don't really care about how they feel. I was miserable in the church ever since I was a kid and I need to break those chains regardless of the consequenses.
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Posted: 04 March 2014 12:17 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 3 ]
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Aleut
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Welcome to PostMo, Heather.
My resignation from the church became legally effective on March 1, 2009. I can't believe it's been five years already. I used snail mail with tracking so that I'd know when my letter was received by the membership office. I've read about several people resigning via email. For the most part, email resignations seem to speed up the process.
I'm very glad I went to the trouble to write my letter and get my name removed. (I don't believe for one-second that TSCC really erased my membership record. I'm sure they just moved my information into a different pile. The shit pile! LOL) My integrity wouldn't allow me to keep my name attached to the lie that is the mormon church. Many say they don't want to jump through “mormon" hoops to have their name removed. I respect their choice. However I don't see the resignation process the same way. I believe I made the church jump to my tune; expending resources to comply to my demand of name removal.
My resignation letter timeline was:
--Resignation letter mailed to the church membership office on 27 Feb. 2009.
--Postal tracking said it was delivered 1 March.
--I received a reply, dated 26 Mar. 2009, from the membership office saying my resignation was received, needed to be handled by my bishop, and had been forwarded to my bishop.
--A few days later my bishop called me and I confirmed to him my desire to immediately resign from the church. I also informed him that since my original resignation letter was received by the membership office on 1 March, I legally was no longer a member of the church on that date. He said he still needed to go through the church's red tape to complete my resignation request. This conversation was cordial and less uncomfortable than I expected when I first answered the phone.
--I received a letter dated 31 March from my bishop confirming he received my written resignation from the membership office. He acknowledged I had waived my 30-day waiting period as per our telephone conversation and had forwarded my resignation request to the first presidency of the church. (I don't believe my resignation was actually sent to the first presidency.)
--On 16 April 2009, I received my letter from the church member and statistical records division notifying me that my name had been removed from the membership records of the church.
That was my timeline. However, as they say in the television commercials, "Your results may vary."
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Posted: 04 March 2014 12:35 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 4 ]
mariejo
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Joined 2013-06-18
Welcome Heather! I'd like this info too, so hopefully someone has the magic bullet. We've never been visited by any member with any "authority" at church and I'd like to keep it that way. Don't need to have those feelings resurface again.
I've heard about emailing as a way to get it done. If I figure it out I'll let you know.
Posted: 04 March 2014 12:53 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 5 ]
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WanderingGeek
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Mariejo
I was just thinking that myself...I'd rather email it. If found this:
http://www.exmormon.org/remove.htm
Email method for resignation (updated Feb. 2012)
"Many people have reported that they have been able to resign via e-mail directly to Membership Records. If so, this greatly simplifies the resignation process. Your e-mail should include identifying information and a mailing address for the confirmation letter. The following is a suggested form (omit the bracketed material if you do not have it available):
To: Confidential Records: msr-confrec@ldschurch.org
Subject: Resignation of membership in LDS church
My full name is ______; my date of birth is ____________ . [I was baptized on ___(date). My membership number is ______.]
My residence address is _______ [in the ________ ward/branch].
I hereby resign my membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, effective immediately, and request you to remove my name permanently from your membership records. I wish no further contact from representatives of your church except to confirm that my name has been removed from your records. I expect to receive that confirmation within a reasonably short time.
Not sure how well that works...but I don't want to have to spend a postage stamp lol :)
I really really need to do this myself...been thinking a lot about it lately....
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Posted: 04 March 2014 02:31 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 6 ]
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Matter Unorganized
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Something to remember: If you are in the United States, under US law your resignation is effective IMMEDIATLY upon receipt at the church office building. Any hoops they want you to jump through are simply hubris; they still believe that they hold authority "over" you. THEY DO NOT.
I have heard of people specifying in their letters that they do not wish to be contacted by anyone from the church, and some even go to the extent of threatening legal action if that request is not honored. Some bishops still feel that they are above the law and will visit the person anyway.
The church will tell you it is an ecclesiastical matter. IT IS NOT. It is an administrative matter. When one is baptized, that is an ecclesiastical matter. It requires an interview and an ordinance. When one resigns, there is no interview and no ordinance. It's just a rubber stamp. For the church to tell you otherwise is one final LIE to you.
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Posted: 04 March 2014 04:29 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 7 ]
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MauEvig
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Welcome to Post Mormon.org! This is a great group with a lot of resources.
Since we're on the topic, I actually have a question. What if you can't remember your Baptism date? I certainly can't, and if my "video response" that I asked my dad to send doesn't work, I wouldn't mind trying the e-mail route.
Posted: 04 March 2014 07:38 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 8 ]
Destroyingangl
Jr. Member
RankRank
Joined 2014-01-12
My family and I are in the process of having our names removed at the moment. I guess we are technically off the records already since we have submitted our letter demanding removal of our names. It isn't hard but can be annoying. Even when the local ward doesn't know you from any other person on the street, suddenly you get more unwanted visits than anything. But, having your name removed is a good way of moving on with life in my opinion.
For those that have commented above about emailing your resignation, that works but only if you are emailing for yourself only. My wife emailed the Church our family's membership information and said we wanted our names removed. The local bishop came out a couple of weeks later to say he had received a letter from Church Headquarters that my wife wanted her name removed. He mentioned nothing about me or our five kids. After looking around online, this is apparently a common experience amongst families that email their resignations. So, we ended up needing to write a formal letter and give it to the Bishop so we could get this over with. So you can save a stamp if it is only you that is resigning.
Good luck.
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Destroyingangl
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Posted: 04 March 2014 08:24 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 9 ]
HeatherMFT
Newbie
Rank
Joined 2014-03-03
Thanks everyone!!
Is there a way for me to find out my baptism date and record # without contacting the bishop?
Posted: 04 March 2014 09:22 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 10 ]
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Tessa
Long Timer
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Joined 2008-08-12
Check with your parents, it would be stored in a "book of remembrance" or "treasures of truth" album(for the baptism sheet.)
Usually, if you were dunked at age 8, it was in the month close to your birth date, anyway.
Your membership number isn't really necessary, if you give them your address, and you've attended your local ward.
Let them jump through hoops for a change.
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”I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin
Posted: 04 March 2014 09:28 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 11 ]
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Elder OldDog
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I certainly understand how resigning can be a sort of crossing of the Rubicon, for those who think that way. I always enjoin a hearty "fcuk you!" and certainly the Big 15 do inspire that in me.
But...resigning means nothing legally. Maybe if they had an online "resignation clock", like the online debt clock, then at least you could see an effect of your resignation. The likelihood of them actually deducting "1" for each resignation from the membership total is not good. We're still in the computer. We'll always be in the computer. If no one does it for us, we'll all be baptised again when we turn 111.
I know there are those who, like me, feel that not only is it pointless to resign (remember, it's a personal feeling) but then it opens some of us to simply being baptized a year after we die, by one of our TBM kids. Not to mention, you miss the opportunity to preach apostasy to the every so often visitors who stop by! I really, really enjoy that!
And I'd like to know where in the revelations given to the prophets it says that by writing a letter, I lose my priesthood powers? How bogus a thought is that? I get the logic behind it, but where did ghawd instruct the Elders of Zion that such was the case? It boogles the imagination! What if Bro. Ted Bundy, while awaiting his execution, baptises a fellow convict and does it right, with all the right words (assuming he made it to Priest and hadn't been ex'd)? Would that baptism count? Yes it would. But if Jeff Ricks for who the hell knows what reason, baptises someone, (wet t-shirt contest?) it doesn't count because he wrote a letter... where does it say in scripture or modern revelation that the so-called priesthood power magically disappeared from Jeff's body? Does one lose any weight when it leaves?
Thanks for letting me rant... Oh yeah, my g/f said she feels the same way; she's not jumping through TSCC's hoops.
Posted: 05 March 2014 12:59 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 12 ]
Ninon de Lenclos
Sr. Member
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Joined 2007-10-30
Elder OldDog:
I certainly understand how resigning can be a sort of crossing of the Rubicon, for those who think that way. I always enjoin a hearty "fcuk you!" and certainly the Big 15 do inspire that in me.
But...resigning means nothing legally. Maybe if they had an online "resignation clock", like the online debt clock, then at least you could see an effect of your resignation. The likelihood of them actually deducting "1" for each resignation from the membership total is not good. We're still in the computer. We'll always be in the computer. If no one does it for us, we'll all be baptised again when we turn 111.
I know there are those who, like me, feel that not only is it pointless to resign (remember, it's a personal feeling) but then it opens some of us to simply being baptized a year after we die, by one of our TBM kids. Not to mention, you miss the opportunity to preach apostasy to the every so often visitors who stop by! I really, really enjoy that!
And I'd like to know where in the revelations given to the prophets it says that by writing a letter, I lose my priesthood powers? How bogus a thought is that? I get the logic behind it, but where did ghawd instruct the Elders of Zion that such was the case? It boogles the imagination! What if Bro. Ted Bundy, while awaiting his execution, baptises a fellow convict and does it right, with all the right words (assuming he made it to Priest and hadn't been ex'd)? Would that baptism count? Yes it would. But if Jeff Ricks for who the hell knows what reason, baptises someone, (wet t-shirt contest?) it doesn't count because he wrote a letter... where does it say in scripture or modern revelation that the so-called priesthood power magically disappeared from Jeff's body? Does one lose any weight when it leaves?
Thanks for letting me rant... Oh yeah, my g/f said she feels the same way; she's not jumping through TSCC's hoops.
It's wonderful that you are in a relationship where you and your g/f know you can depend on each other to be responsible...
...to do the right thing given all of the relevant circumstances...
...and you know that you each have each other's backs, no matter what...so you can always feel safe and protected.
Relationships like that are rare...not many people in this world ever find them.
Posted: 05 March 2014 04:24 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 13 ]
Destroyingangl
Jr. Member
RankRank
Joined 2014-01-12
Elder OldDog:
I certainly understand how resigning can be a sort of crossing of the Rubicon, for those who think that way. I always enjoin a hearty "fcuk you!" and certainly the Big 15 do inspire that in me.
But...resigning means nothing legally. Maybe if they had an online "resignation clock", like the online debt clock, then at least you could see an effect of your resignation. The likelihood of them actually deducting "1" for each resignation from the membership total is not good. We're still in the computer. We'll always be in the computer. If no one does it for us, we'll all be baptised again when we turn 111.
I know there are those who, like me, feel that not only is it pointless to resign (remember, it's a personal feeling) but then it opens some of us to simply being baptized a year after we die, by one of our TBM kids. Not to mention, you miss the opportunity to preach apostasy to the every so often visitors who stop by! I really, really enjoy that!
And I'd like to know where in the revelations given to the prophets it says that by writing a letter, I lose my priesthood powers? How bogus a thought is that? I get the logic behind it, but where did ghawd instruct the Elders of Zion that such was the case? It boogles the imagination! What if Bro. Ted Bundy, while awaiting his execution, baptises a fellow convict and does it right, with all the right words (assuming he made it to Priest and hadn't been ex'd)? Would that baptism count? Yes it would. But if Jeff Ricks for who the hell knows what reason, baptises someone, (wet t-shirt contest?) it doesn't count because he wrote a letter... where does it say in scripture or modern revelation that the so-called priesthood power magically disappeared from Jeff's body? Does one lose any weight when it leaves?
Thanks for letting me rant... Oh yeah, my g/f said she feels the same way; she's not jumping through TSCC's hoops.
I agree with your assessment. Even my parents, who are nonmembers, had membership numbers because I joined. Resigning might stop the visits, but I doubt they scrub their databases to make it look like we never existed.
For my wife and I , we wanted our names removed because we have young kids who aren't tbm but were baptized. We don't mind messing with the people that visit us on occassion, but, we didn't want the kids to have this follow them all of their lives. I guess our TBM nieces and nephews will waste a lot of time in the temple after we die, if we don't get to them first.
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Destroyingangl
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Posted: 05 March 2014 04:32 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 14 ]
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WanderingGeek
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Joined 2013-11-26
I agree with you totally Elderdog, I think the reason why I want to resign is just personal. And when I resign, people in my family will know I mean it. I am sure they are all just thinking I will come around.
When my DW mentioned that I am now agnostic on her FB the other day. She had TONS of her "friends" comment and tell her to just keep praying, keep my name on the temple rolls, blah blah blah. So for me to say "I am no longer a member." Even though I know I will still be "on the records." It will be a final, I AM DONE. Also I won't have them bugging me for things in the local ward. Some times they are kind of dumb that way.... "I know you don't believe...but did you get your HT done?"
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Posted: 05 March 2014 05:44 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 15 ]
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Quartersawn
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HeatherMFT:
Thanks everyone!!
Is there a way for me to find out my baptism date and record # without contacting the bishop?
I resigned just a couple of months ago and did not include my baptismal date. I had my legal name, my parents names, my date and place of birth.
Sent it via email in December to the 'church' and cc'd the bishop. We had talked a couple of months previous about my resignation. Even though I included in the email to not be contacted he emailed me back for the 'exit interview'. I told him we had already had that discussion and that he need not wait to process my paperwork. By Feb I got my response letter from the COB.
I too was a temple worker...for 30+ years...since I was 21.
Oh... Welcome to PostMo and congratulations!!!
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Why would you consider a man a prophet whose morals are worse than your own? Having claimed to commune with deity, be visited by angels and receive revelations, should he not be held to a higher standard? —me
Posted: 05 March 2014 06:31 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 16 ]
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RobinM
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I resigned via email last summer. As I didn't then (and still don't) know any of the local membership, I sent it only to membership records.
I included my full birth name, birth date, and an approximation of when I believe I was baptized. I also had my minor child listed with her full name and birth date. I have no idea what my membership number was and didn't feel the need to try and find out.
Within a couple of weeks I go there snail mail with the letter and pamphlet about it needing to be handled at the local level. The local bishop called me, was polite, just wanted verbal confirmation that I was the one making the request for both me and my child.
Another couple of weeks and I had a letter stating that I was no longer a member.
I did have to reach out to them again because the final letter did not anywhere mention my daughter and I wanted written confirmation that her name was removed as well. The response to this letter came from Greg Dodge himself.
Again, all my communications to the church were in email, all their communications to me where snail mail and the one phone call.
It is definitely a more drawn out process than it needs to be, but they do get it done,
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“Curiosity killed the cat, but where human beings are concerned, the only thing a healthy curiosity can kill is ignorance”
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“The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity.”
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Posted: 05 March 2014 07:27 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 17 ]
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MauEvig
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Destroyingangl:
My family and I are in the process of having our names removed at the moment. I guess we are technically off the records already since we have submitted our letter demanding removal of our names. It isn't hard but can be annoying. Even when the local ward doesn't know you from any other person on the street, suddenly you get more unwanted visits than anything. But, having your name removed is a good way of moving on with life in my opinion.
For those that have commented above about emailing your resignation, that works but only if you are emailing for yourself only. My wife emailed the Church our family's membership information and said we wanted our names removed. The local bishop came out a couple of weeks later to say he had received a letter from Church Headquarters that my wife wanted her name removed. He mentioned nothing about me or our five kids. After looking around online, this is apparently a common experience amongst families that email their resignations. So, we ended up needing to write a formal letter and give it to the Bishop so we could get this over with. So you can save a stamp if it is only you that is resigning.
Good luck.
I'm the only one who would really need to resign, since most of my family (to my knowledge, with maybe the exception of one 2nd cousin) is a nevermo.
I don't want to have to resort to writing letters or making phone calls, but I'll wait and see if this video message will get across or not. If not, I'll write the letter or e-mail, but I don't want TSCC to know my physical address. (Perhaps the video will be cause for them to excommunicate me and be done with it.)
But if they do find it out and show up they'll be thrown right off the property and escorted by the Sheriff. I will not tolerate being bothered by them. lol.
Posted: 05 March 2014 07:55 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 18 ]
HeatherMFT
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MauEvig:
Welcome to Post Mormon.org! This is a great group with a lot of resources.
Since we're on the topic, I actually have a question. What if you can't remember your Baptism date? I certainly can't, and if my "video response" that I asked my dad to send doesn't work, I wouldn't mind trying the e-mail route.
Where is this "video response"? It sounds interesting :)
Posted: 05 March 2014 08:44 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 19 ]
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MauEvig
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Right now I'm keeping it private. ^^; I figured it would be better not to publicize it on youtube or facebook, and just have my dad send it via e-mail.
About the only way I'd consider making it public is if the Mormons made a big stink about it.
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Posted: 25 February 2014 09:00 PM [ Ignore ]
rain
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So, not-so TBM husband was assigned to teach a Conference Talk entitled "Small and Simple Things" by Arnulfo Valenzuela. One quote from the talk:
"I testify that many of those who need our help are there waiting for us. They are ready for their valiant brothers and sisters to reach out to them and RESCUE them through small and simple means. I have personally spent many hours visiting less-active members of the Church whose hearts have already been softened by the Lord . . ."And if it so be that you should labor all your days in crying repentance unto this people, and bring save it be one soul unto me, how great shall be your joy - yadda - yadda- yadda."
Hubby cannot for the life of him see why this is so offensive. His argument is that
there are some people who do want to come back and I shouldn't be offended.
I told him that it marginalizes those of us who are 'less-active' and paints a picture that we are bad and therefore need to repent. It also keeps people in the fold by telling them they are valiant if they remain active. People are good if they are in and bad if they are out. Any comments would be helpful.
Posted: 25 February 2014 09:52 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 1 ]
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Elder OldDog
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Why does ghawd "soften" the heart of some people but leave others out in the cold?
This bugged me about Mr. Supreme Deity when in La Biblia, when Moses was trying to get the people out of bondage in Eqypt, Pharaoh on a couple of occasions was ready to let the Jews vamoose, but ghawd 'hardened Pharaoh's heart... So then came plagues and ghawd kept hardening Pharaoh's heart until the first Passover took place. It was my reading of the story that Pharaoh would have released them sooner but for ghawd and the hardening process.
So ghawd sits on a fluffy cloud and hardens some people's hearts and softens other people's hearts...why? Does he have a script he's following? Since he supposedly knew even at the hour of our births where we were destined to be, is he actually meddling with us to make sure we fulfill what he saw in advance we would do/become?
So why be pissed at us, oh faithful TBMs? It wasn't Lucifer who led us away from the truth, it was ghawd, making sure we end up where he knows we belong.
Which brings up the bullshit about "ghawd will never let a temption come at you that you don't have the power to refuse."
No effing way was I going to refuse the temptation of that ER nurse in Mammoth Lakes Hospital in 1980. Oh the stories we could all tell about wonderful temptations we fell prey to. <sigh>
Posted: 25 February 2014 10:12 PM [ Ignore ] [ # 2 ]
Free2Live
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Rain that talk sounds like a sales pitch. Do you prefer Saturday or Tuesday for our visit? <----- note that their is no mention of No visits in the question. The church crap is always couched in church only options.
Elder OldDog is that mammory mountains hospital still in business? I may need a thorough physical myself only with a younger RN than a seasoned 1980 veteran.
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Posted: 26 February 2014 12:03 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 3 ]
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Robby Sunshine
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Your husband has a point. There are many people who stop attending church because they're bored with it, don't get along with the congregation, feel 'unworthy', or just have too much else going on. Many such people maintain a nominal belief that they fall back on in times of distress. They are the prototypical "jack Mormons", and they appear to outnumber unbelieving apostates by a substantial margin. From the Church's perspective, it makes sense to make overtures to these people in its arrogant and delusional if not ill-intentioned way. When the subject of my non-attendance comes up, I wear my unbelieving apostate status as a badge of honor. It discourages all but the most millitant apologists inside the Church and lets those outside the Church know that I don't endorse core LDS world views, even in a half-ass way. Whatever else they choose to read into that is beyond my control.
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