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“Missions Signal a Growing Role for Mormon Women”  
Posted: 03 March 2014 06:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Aleut
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A Facebook friend posted a link to this nytimes.com article.  Having been away from the church for many years, for me this piece is an interesting peek into the current role for women in TSCC.  I'm still digesting what I've read, but thought it would be something of interest and discussion here on PostMo.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/us/a-growing-role-for-mormon-women.html?hpw&rref=us&_r=1 
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All comments, statements, opinions, suggestions, and information expressed, or quotes cited, represent the exclusive viewpoint of Aleut at that point in time and are NOT meant to compel or represent agreement by the reader. Aleut will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or any losses, injuries, or damages arising from its display or use.


   


Posted: 03 March 2014 10:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Aleut
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After reading the article, all I felt was profound sadness.  Women haven't IMO, as the title of the article suggests, been given a "...Growing Role...” by TSCC.  The mission age has been lowered, but all that has done is thrust the same denigrating obligations, and expected behavior patterns onto LDS women at a younger age.
 
I'm saddened because these young women are being duped through mormon indoctrination into believing they are reaching their full potential.  Yet in reality, as I see it, they are sacrificing a chance for greater opportunities and experiences by giving this pivotal time in their lives to the LDS church.
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“I’m having the best day of my life, and I owe it all to not going to Church!”—Homer Simpson, The Simpsons
“I don’t object to the concept of a deity, but I’m baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.”—Amy Farrah Fowler, The Big Bang Theory
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All comments, statements, opinions, suggestions, and information expressed, or quotes cited, represent the exclusive viewpoint of Aleut at that point in time and are NOT meant to compel or represent agreement by the reader. Aleut will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or any losses, injuries, or damages arising from its display or use.


   


Posted: 04 March 2014 06:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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kinderhooker
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Soon enough, many of these women will have the all-dressed-up-and-nowhere-to-go feeling. They'll see the glass ceiling the church staunchly keeps in place for them.
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“And the Lord said: I will prepare unto my servant Gazelem, a stone, which shall shine forth in darkness unto light, that I may discover unto my people who serve me, that I may discover unto them the works of their brethren, yea, their secret works, their works of darkness, and their wickedness and abominations.” Alma 37:3


   


Posted: 06 March 2014 11:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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4thNephite
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How long until the church, out of desperation, makes a mission required for girls as well as boys?
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Posted: 06 March 2014 11:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Lord of Darkness
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One of the unintended consequences of lowering the missionary age for women will be long term empowerment in the church.  These women are going to get into the mission field and realize how average the men are, and the light bulb is going to go on that--"the guys with the priesthood are total boneheads...the 'priesthood' doesn't make them any better...and there's no reason why the 'priesthood' shouldn't be given to both genders."
 
Ordain Women is going to get fresh recruits off the mission field and the movement is only going to get stronger over time.  Otherwise, this new generation of women wanting something substantive to do in the church are going to fade away...dissatisfied with the pats on the head while they chat in Relief Society about recipes and activities. 
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Posted: 07 March 2014 08:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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Brad (ZeeZrom)
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Lord of Darkness:
One of the unintended consequences of lowering the missionary age for women will be long term empowerment in the church.  These women are going to get into the mission field and realize how average the men are, and the light bulb is going to go on that--"the guys with the priesthood are total boneheads...the 'priesthood' doesn't make them any better...and there's no reason why the 'priesthood' shouldn't be given to both genders."
 
Ordain Women is going to get fresh recruits off the mission field and the movement is only going to get stronger over time.  Otherwise, this new generation of women wanting something substantive to do in the church are going to fade away...dissatisfied with the pats on the head while they chat in Relief Society about recipes and activities. 
 
 I think this is a very good point.  It will be interesting to see the effect of more women going on missions.
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Posted: 07 March 2014 03:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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Timber
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Brad (ZeeZrom):
Lord of Darkness:
One of the unintended consequences of lowering the missionary age for women will be long term empowerment in the church.  These women are going to get into the mission field and realize how average the men are, and the light bulb is going to go on that--"the guys with the priesthood are total boneheads...the 'priesthood' doesn't make them any better...and there's no reason why the 'priesthood' shouldn't be given to both genders."
 
Ordain Women is going to get fresh recruits off the mission field and the movement is only going to get stronger over time.  Otherwise, this new generation of women wanting something substantive to do in the church are going to fade away...dissatisfied with the pats on the head while they chat in Relief Society about recipes and activities. 
 
 I think this is a very good point.  It will be interesting to see the effect of more women going on missions.
 
Fascinating.
 
The volume of women entering the mission field increases the demand for district leaders and zone leaders, which of course are boys. So, more average (or even below average) boys are chosen for these leadership roles. This could be very frustrating for the women who have the advantage of being more mature than their male counterparts on three accounts:
* age--at least a year older than the boys
* life experience--at least year away from home (or beyond high school)
* biology
 
But let's face it. The girls going on missions are the ones who are most impressionable, dutiful, and loyal to the hierarchy as it stands (I was one of them). I'm betting they also don't have career plans. Or they might have "backup" career plans. In other words, these aren't the girls who are hoping to log a couple years into a real career before having babies.
 
In fact I would bet that lowering the age for girls and encouraging them to serve is a strategy for keeping women from entering into viable careers--the kind that offer growth and enough compensation to support a family. The kind of careers that statistically are correlated with leaving the church altogether at some point.
 
The more indoctrinated young women are in those potential years of growth, the more likely they are to stick with the program and the less time they have to do anything else beyond attending church schools.
 
In general, when a father stops believing it's a crisis of faith. When a mother stops believing, the whole family leaves with her. Thus, the great expansion of the missionary program for young women.


   


Posted: 07 March 2014 06:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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Aleut
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Timber:
Brad (ZeeZrom):
Lord of Darkness:
One of the unintended consequences of lowering the missionary age for women will be long term empowerment in the church.  These women are going to get into the mission field and realize how average the men are, and the light bulb is going to go on that--"the guys with the priesthood are total boneheads...the 'priesthood' doesn't make them any better...and there's no reason why the 'priesthood' shouldn't be given to both genders."
 
Ordain Women is going to get fresh recruits off the mission field and the movement is only going to get stronger over time.  Otherwise, this new generation of women wanting something substantive to do in the church are going to fade away...dissatisfied with the pats on the head while they chat in Relief Society about recipes and activities. 
 
 I think this is a very good point.  It will be interesting to see the effect of more women going on missions.
 
Fascinating.
 
The volume of women entering the mission field increases the demand for district leaders and zone leaders, which of course are boys. So, more average (or even below average) boys are chosen for these leadership roles. This could be very frustrating for the women who have the advantage of being more mature than their male counterparts on three accounts:
* age--at least a year older than the boys
* life experience--at least year away from home (or beyond high school)
* biology
 
But let's face it. The girls going on missions are the ones who are most impressionable, dutiful, and loyal to the hierarchy as it stands (I was one of them). I'm betting they also don't have career plans. Or they might have "backup" career plans. In other words, these aren't the girls who are hoping to log a couple years into a real career before having babies.
 
In fact I would bet that lowering the age for girls and encouraging them to serve is a strategy for keeping women from entering into viable careers--the kind that offer growth and enough compensation to support a family. The kind of careers that statistically are correlated with leaving the church altogether at some point.
 
The more indoctrinated young women are in those potential years of growth, the more likely they are to stick with the program and the less time they have to do anything else beyond attending church schools.
 
In general, when a father stops believing it's a crisis of faith. When a mother stops believing, the whole family leaves with her. Thus, the great expansion of the missionary program for young women.
I think you are right.  The bold part about mother's leaving the church with the whole family must be the worst senerio for TSCC.
 Signature
“I’m having the best day of my life, and I owe it all to not going to Church!”—Homer Simpson, The Simpsons
“I don’t object to the concept of a deity, but I’m baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.”—Amy Farrah Fowler, The Big Bang Theory
“For the record, I do have genitals. They’re functional and aesthetically pleasing.”—Sheldon Cooper, The Big Bang Theory
All comments, statements, opinions, suggestions, and information expressed, or quotes cited, represent the exclusive viewpoint of Aleut at that point in time and are NOT meant to compel or represent agreement by the reader. Aleut will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or any losses, injuries, or damages arising from its display or use.


   


Posted: 08 March 2014 03:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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Bold Wish
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Timber:

In fact I would bet that lowering the age for girls and encouraging them to serve is a strategy for keeping women from entering into viable careers--the kind that offer growth and enough compensation to support a family. The kind of careers that statistically are correlated with leaving the church altogether at some point.
 
The more indoctrinated young women are in those potential years of growth, the more likely they are to stick with the program and the less time they have to do anything else beyond attending church schools.
 
In general, when a father stops believing it's a crisis of faith. When a mother stops believing, the whole family leaves with her. Thus, the great expansion of the missionary program for young women.
 
It seems reasonable to believe the change in age for women missionaries could be to help secure their belief system early, to minimize damage control.
 
I still don't understand their reasoning - why can't men and women leave for missions when they are 18 - why do women have to wait another year? 
 
I'm just guessing a decision like that would seem "too extreme" for some members who might begin thinking on their own, questioning whether this "inspiration from the lard" was simply a decision to prevent unwanted behavior becuase of the charts the Q15 study which illustrate past, current, and potential membership trends.
 
Probably the only thing missing from Q15 meetings and any typical corporate boardroom meetings are a few cuss words and maybe some caffeinated diet sodas.  Show me another graph, let's make another decision based on generating more revenue, squeezing more resources from our clients.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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When I discovered the truth and realized the organization was lying to me, that they had always been lying to me, I felt a sting of betrayal, the humiliation from an organization who profits abundantly by violating trust.  I knew that no matter what would come of it, I could no longer remain associated with the organization in any way.  Since leaving, I’ve enjoyed thinking on my own, guilt is almost a foreign concept, and being in control of my life is incredibly satisfying.


   


Posted: 08 March 2014 09:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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wesmanlv
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Timber:
 
In general, when a father stops believing it's a crisis of faith. When a mother stops believing, the whole family leaves with her. Thus, the great expansion of the missionary program for young women.
 
 but have i not read on here that many guys leave the church/lose testimony as a result of being a missionary?


   


Posted: 09 March 2014 07:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
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WinstonSmith
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Bold Wish:
Timber:

In fact I would bet that lowering the age for girls and encouraging them to serve is a strategy for keeping women from entering into viable careers--the kind that offer growth and enough compensation to support a family. The kind of careers that statistically are correlated with leaving the church altogether at some point.
 
The more indoctrinated young women are in those potential years of growth, the more likely they are to stick with the program and the less time they have to do anything else beyond attending church schools.
 
In general, when a father stops believing it's a crisis of faith. When a mother stops believing, the whole family leaves with her. Thus, the great expansion of the missionary program for young women.
 
It seems reasonable to believe the change in age for women missionaries could be to help secure their belief system early, to minimize damage control.
 
I still don't understand their reasoning - why can't men and women leave for missions when they are 18 - why do women have to wait another year? 
 
I'm just guessing a decision like that would seem "too extreme" for some members who might begin thinking on their own, questioning whether this "inspiration from the lard" was simply a decision to prevent unwanted behavior becuase of the charts the Q15 study which illustrate past, current, and potential membership trends.
 
Probably the only thing missing from Q15 meetings and any typical corporate boardroom meetings are a few cuss words and maybe some caffeinated diet sodas.  Show me another graph, let's make another decision based on generating more revenue, squeezing more resources from our clients.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
One word: SEXISM... To allow women to leave at 18 would be making a statement of equality with the men.
 
One question I have wondered is, what will this do to the educational level of women in TSCC?  Will the young girls put off education to save for a mission.  I can imagine that the pressure to get married quickly after their missions will be intense for the girls.
 
What better way to ensure long term membership than indoctrinating youth, getting them to marry young, keeping them uneducated and getting them to hand over 10% of their income unquestioned.
 
I may be wrong, but if I were to engage in such a business model as a private entity and not a religion, I most likely get into a lot of trouble...
 
I have to give TSCC credit, they keep things mainstream just enough to fly under the radar. This is why someone like Warren Jeffs gets all the bad press, and we just get labeled as bitter apostates. ***sigh***
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Posted: 09 March 2014 08:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]   

   
 
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Timber
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wesmanlv:
Timber:
 
In general, when a father stops believing it's a crisis of faith. When a mother stops believing, the whole family leaves with her. Thus, the great expansion of the missionary program for young women.
 
 but have i not read on here that many guys leave the church/lose testimony as a result of being a missionary?
 
Right. Serving a mission is correlated with tenure and tithing as a member. Guys are already expected to serve missions. Expanding the program to women is what is new.
 
Men in careers is likely not correlated to families leaving, even if they lose faith. However, I sure bet that LDS women pursuing careers is highly correlated to entire families leaving. When women serve missions they are less likely to pursue a rewarding career outside the home for two reasons--they are more indoctrinated and they have fewer years before having babies to start that career.


   


Posted: 09 March 2014 12:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]   

   
 
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evil_archer
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WinstonSmith:
Bold Wish:
Timber:

In fact I would bet that lowering the age for girls and encouraging them to serve is a strategy for keeping women from entering into viable careers--the kind that offer growth and enough compensation to support a family. The kind of careers that statistically are correlated with leaving the church altogether at some point.
 
The more indoctrinated young women are in those potential years of growth, the more likely they are to stick with the program and the less time they have to do anything else beyond attending church schools.
 
In general, when a father stops believing it's a crisis of faith. When a mother stops believing, the whole family leaves with her. Thus, the great expansion of the missionary program for young women.
 
It seems reasonable to believe the change in age for women missionaries could be to help secure their belief system early, to minimize damage control.
 
I still don't understand their reasoning - why can't men and women leave for missions when they are 18 - why do women have to wait another year? 
 
I'm just guessing a decision like that would seem "too extreme" for some members who might begin thinking on their own, questioning whether this "inspiration from the lard" was simply a decision to prevent unwanted behavior becuase of the charts the Q15 study which illustrate past, current, and potential membership trends.
 
Probably the only thing missing from Q15 meetings and any typical corporate boardroom meetings are a few cuss words and maybe some caffeinated diet sodas.  Show me another graph, let's make another decision based on generating more revenue, squeezing more resources from our clients.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
One word: SEXISM... To allow women to leave at 18 would be making a statement of equality with the men.
 
One question I have wondered is, what will this do to the educational level of women in TSCC?  Will the young girls put off education to save for a mission.  I can imagine that the pressure to get married quickly after their missions will be intense for the girls.
 
What better way to ensure long term membership than indoctrinating youth, getting them to marry young, keeping them uneducated and getting them to hand over 10% of their income unquestioned.
 
I may be wrong, but if I were to engage in such a business model as a private entity and not a religion, I most likely get into a lot of trouble...
 
I have to give TSCC credit, they keep things mainstream just enough to fly under the radar. This is why someone like Warren Jeffs gets all the bad press, and we just get labeled as bitter apostates. ***sigh***
 
 I agree, as one thing with the age lowering is that women are now getting less college done before they go, but not enough to get a degree. Then, if a female RM gets married soon after she gets done with her mission, she will probably end up not finishing her education as all of the focus will be on the husband getting his degree and career while she stays at home to raise the children.
 
I think the leaders saw that Mormons were starting to catch up with the national average when it comes to people marrying in their mid to late 20's, and it scared them because when people marry later, the birth rate drops slightly. Also, people who don't get married right away are more likely to actually think for themselves and end up leaving the church. By having women go at 19, they hope that people will get married younger than they have been lately, and have more children since it's the easiest way to boost membership numbers. 
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Bizarre priesthood interview  
Posted: 05 March 2014 12:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
writeoff
Newbie
Rank
Joined  2011-01-06
 
  
 
Many years ago, while trying desperately to cling to the last vestiges of my testimony, I was being interviewed by my then Stake President.  He was calling me to be the EQP.  I showed up for the interview prepared to have a frank disucssion about struggles I was having with some areas of church culture, teachings, doctrine, that were causing me to question my testimony of the church.
 
This SP sat down across from me and asked me the usual  "get to know you" questions in the appropriate lovingly condescending way they reserve for such occassions.  He told me he was calling me to be the EQP and asked if there was anything I needed to change in my life.  And so this was my opening to let him know of my deep internal struggle with the Church.  After I had begun by saying I had a number of questions, he quickly cut me off, looked me dead in the eyes and said "No brother, you need to watch the apostles."  I wasn't at all sure what to make of that statement.  He obviously could sense my confusion and asked,  "Do you ever see an apostle that isn't clean-shaven or that isn't wearing a white shirt?"  I admitted that I hadn't ever seen that (at least not in my life; never mind the picture of Brigham Young behind him).  He said, "Brother, you need to follow that example."  Ah!  The light went on.  You see, I hadn't shaved that weekend and so had noticeable growth on my face and was also wearing a gray shirt rather than a white shirt.  I was absolutely flabbergasted and at that point could only shake me head in a meek assenting nod - for after all, this was God's representative on Earth and if that's what God wants...  I was then set apart as the EQP.
 
It was such an eye-opening and bizarre experience.  I learned then what this SP really wanted was someone to look the part, essentially a model that would stand in front of a group of men and look correct.  Didn't matter whether I believed; nor how firm my testimony, so long as I looked the part.  Another straw on the camel's back. 
 
Anyone else have interesting, humorous, strange priesthood interview stories?
 
 
 Signature
“We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.”
— Richard Dawkins


   


Posted: 05 March 2014 12:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
Avatar
Matter Unorganized
Long Timer
RankRankRankRankRank
Joined  2011-01-22
 
  
 
The EQP called me in for a PPI one day. He wanted to know why I wasn't doing my home teaching. I told him that the brethren promised it would make a difference in my life, and I told him that this was not true in my case, that home teaching did not make a difference in my life.
 
A couple of weeks later in stake priesthood leadership meeting (I think I was a stake clerk at the time) the stake prez quoted my interview with the EQP almost verbatim (at least he didn't mention my name) and proceded to give a lecture on selfishness. Apparently the EQP had reported back to the stake prez. Shit, all I wanted was what had been promised.
 
In a similar vein, when I told my bishop of my disaffection, he asked if I read the BoM. I told him I had read that book dozens of time and I had never received the confirmation of moroni's promise. He accused me of seeking a sign and I told him no, I just wanted what everybody else claimed to receive. He had no answer for that.
 
A few weeks later he asked me to read Jesus the Christ. I asked him what his motives were, and he wouldn't answer. I told him I had no use for an apostle who had promised, in 1916 in general conference, that there were people present that day who would live to read the books of the lost tribes of Israel. Talk about a deer in the headlights!
 
He has not cornered me since, and that was over 2 years ago. 
 Signature
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
You’re like the Gandhi of postmo. - Lloyd Dobler


   


Posted: 05 March 2014 12:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
Ninon de Lenclos
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Joined  2007-10-30
 
  
 
writeoff:
Many years ago, while trying desperately to cling to the last vestiges of my testimony, I was being interviewed by my then Stake President.  He was calling me to be the EQP.  I showed up for the interview prepared to have a frank disucssion about struggles I was having with some areas of church culture, teachings, doctrine, that were causing me to question my testimony of the church.
 
This SP sat down across from me and asked me the usual  "get to know you" questions in the appropriate lovingly condescending way they reserve for such occassions.  He told me he was calling me to be the EQP and asked if there was anything I needed to change in my life.  And so this was my opening to let him know of my deep internal struggle with the Church.  After I had begun by saying I had a number of questions, he quickly cut me off, looked me dead in the eyes and said "No brother, you need to watch the apostles."  I wasn't at all sure what to make of that statement.  He obviously could sense my confusion and asked,  "Do you ever see an apostle that isn't clean-shaven or that isn't wearing a white shirt?"  I admitted that I hadn't ever seen that (at least not in my life; never mind the picture of Brigham Young behind him).  He said, "Brother, you need to follow that example."  Ah!  The light went on.  You see, I hadn't shaved that weekend and so had noticeable growth on my face and was also wearing a gray shirt rather than a white shirt.  I was absolutely flabbergasted and at that point could only shake me head in a meek assenting nod - for after all, this was God's representative on Earth and if that's what God wants...  I was then set apart as the EQP.
 
It was such an eye-opening and bizarre experience.  I learned then what this SP really wanted was someone to look the part, essentially a model that would stand in front of a group of men and look correct.  Didn't matter whether I believed; nor how firm my testimony, so long as I looked the part.  Another straw on the camel's back. 
 
Anyone else have interesting, humorous, strange priesthood interview stories?
 
 
Although I don't have any priesthood interview stories to share, I am happy for the insights you received as a result of yours.   
 
Straws on camels' backs are important because they lead---at least eventually---to genuine wisdom...and genuine life wisdom is priceless.
 
Very nice post, writeoff.  Thank you. 
 
 
 
 


   


Posted: 05 March 2014 01:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
quietlydifferent
Long Timer
RankRankRankRankRank
Joined  2012-01-17
 
  
 
My weirdest Priesthood interviews were the one-on-one's with my MPs. I only had one with my first MP (when I got to the mission) and he was clearly not interested. He didn't care at that point since he only had a month left. My main MP was weird in interviews and I blame that on him having a bunch of kids and being a corporate lawyer. He talked to you like you were a kid he caught with naughty mags under his bed who had come to him for help with homework involving corporate contracts. Also you were a small animal who could be easily scared. I remember him promising me that I would get seperated from a bad companion and then him not doing it. I remember having problems with bike riding in a very hilly area with a bad knee (biking on level areas wasn't so bad) and him promising to transfer me and then not and then being surprised when I asked him again to move me. He did but I only think it was because he had an emergency transfer situation already going on. Then there was the time he gave me detailed instructions for how to use the keys of the administering of angels to summon angels. 

   


Posted: 05 March 2014 04:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
Moab
Jr. Member
RankRank
Joined  2014-01-06
 
  
 
   Many years ago I was in an EQ presidency when we decided to conduct some PPIs and call in a few home teachers who weren't doing their jobs. As expected, most were embarrased and repentant. The EQ president was hard on them as he piled the guilt several shovels deep. I was embarrased for them and felt like I was a captive participant to their mental lashings.
 
   One home teacher was brave enough to state that he had no intentions of ever going home teaching. The EQ president was on him like a cat on a fish head. After several scriptures and brow beatings, the man again said that he had no interest in going home teaching.  My first thought was that we had to find a way to convince this man of how important home teaching was. But as he sat there in calm defiance, I grew to admire him for not being a follower like the others.
 
   We never did get him to commit to going home teaching and to this day he is a hero to me. He stood up to the EQP, one of gawd's chosen servants, and in effect, gawd himself. After the PPI, the EQP said that one day this man will have to stand before gawd's judgement and the EQP hoped that he could be a witness against him. 
 
 


   


Posted: 05 March 2014 05:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
Avatar
Bold Wish
Long Timer
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Joined  2011-06-24
 
  
 

 
Anyone else have interesting, humorous, strange priesthood interview stories?
 
 
 
During the last few years attending the organization I knew it wasn't real and was going along with it until I thought my wife would finally see the light.  She never did but that's another story.
 
Because I knew the organization was a joke, I had zero guilt drinking and it became a sort of game to see if their "discernment" would find out I was lying to them.
 
Hell, they lied to me for more than twenty years - the least I could do was lie back for a few.
 
Once a SP told me during an interview something like "Well, you know brother Bold Wish, confession is good for the soul.  Do you have anything you'd like to tell me? Is there anything you want to get off your chest?"  Shocked, I just sat there, put my head down and realized he probably asks everyone this, like it's a form of entertainment for him.  Then I sort of blurted out a chuckle, looked up at him and said "Well, the other day I . . . got so mad I wanted to flip off this jerk who cut me off in traffic but that's all I can really think of right now - sorry."
 
He wasn't amused but I sure as hell was.
 
Discernment my a$$.
 
 Signature
When I discovered the truth and realized the organization was lying to me, that they had always been lying to me, I felt a sting of betrayal, the humiliation from an organization who profits abundantly by violating trust.  I knew that no matter what would come of it, I could no longer remain associated with the organization in any way.  Since leaving, I’ve enjoyed thinking on my own, guilt is almost a foreign concept, and being in control of my life is incredibly satisfying.


   


Posted: 05 March 2014 05:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
quietlydifferent
Long Timer
RankRankRankRankRank
Joined  2012-01-17
 
  
 
Moab:
   Many years ago I was in an EQ presidency when we decided to conduct some PPIs and call in a few home teachers who weren't doing their jobs. As expected, most were embarrased and repentant. The EQ president was hard on them as he piled the guilt several shovels deep. I was embarrased for them and felt like I was a captive participant to their mental lashings.
 
   One home teacher was brave enough to state that he had no intentions of ever going home teaching. The EQ president was on him like a cat on a fish head. After several scriptures and brow beatings, the man again said that he had no interest in going home teaching.  My first thought was that we had to find a way to convince this man of how important home teaching was. But as he sat there in calm defiance, I grew to admire him for not being a follower like the others.
 
   We never did get him to commit to going home teaching and to this day he is a hero to me. He stood up to the EQP, one of gawd's chosen servants, and in effect, gawd himself. After the PPI, the EQP said that one day this man will have to stand before gawd's judgement and the EQP hoped that he could be a witness against him. 
 
 
 
 I have seen that attitude many times before and it bothered me even when I was TBM. I have always been more inclined towards compassion. I have always hoped that people would learn and get better. I would rather, for instance, see the membership of the westboro baptist church learn compassion and love and let go of their hate than I would want to see them punished. There is a sadistic pleasure for a lot of people in the thought of eternal punishment for other people. It makes me sad.


   


Posted: 05 March 2014 06:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
from the 5th wife
Member
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Joined  2012-09-02
 
  
 
My last official calling was an EQ first counselor.  We had quarterly meetings with the stake presidency where we were taught how to properly browbeat those that had not done their home teaching.  Somehow I was OK with getting the "beatings", but when I was supposed to dish it out I just could not do it and this ended my 45 year run with the mormons.  It made me just angry enough to start reading all of the satan inspired "anti mormon stuff" and the rest is history.
 
Moronie Balonie here. I am From the 5th wife's only wife......
I just wanted to comment about the time that DH came home from one of these instructional browbeating meetings.  DH was so upset that he was in tears, and apologized to me for not being a better husband and father.  I was livid.  This stupid stake pres. had no idea of the kind of man my DH is.  I wanted to go rip his eyeballs out.  My husband is a good man and is great to our family and especially to me.  It made me ill to think that a so- called man of god was trying to get him to feel like he was somehow inadequate.  It made me angry enough to start reading....and the rest is history.


   


Posted: 05 March 2014 08:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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Elder OldDog
Long Timer
RankRankRankRankRank
Joined  2009-07-30
 
  
 
Absolute proof that TSCC is just a fancy club:  
 
I am a silly, silly man.  I like being silly.  I've always been silly, I've always wanted to make people laugh.  (I tell my G/F that it's to make sure no one tries to get close to me, that I'm really extremely anti-social.  It's true!)
 
So I had a fun, silly mission.  I got to the Y because back in the 60s any RM who wanted in, got in!.  And I was a silly student.  So silly that I got married at the end of that first school year; met her at Halloween, got engaged (her idea) at Christmas and married at the end of May.  And we found a great little house out in the Lakeview Ward, $75/month, basically across the street from the Lakeview Ward chapel.  Good (but silly) TBM that I was, we attended regularly.  I was certainly an oddity there.  Picture all those lilly w(W)hite mormones enduring a full-on, nut brown Mexican in their midst.  That's a ward with a lot of history.  Back then, Lakeview Road ran through dairy farms, with generations living on the land...all White.  
 
All I wanted to do was be silly.  But just before the start of school in the Fall, I got called as the EQP.  Seriously, the EQP.  Not a counselor, not a secretary in some other ward organization...  the EQP.  I swear to ghawd, I actually wondered if ghawd was going to start with EQP and then push me up the ladder, to apostle, just to mess with me...
 
Naturally my TBM wife was thrilled because she got to tell her born and bred in Texas TBM brothers that her (Mexican) husband was the EQP in a real world ward, not some chickenshit student ward.  Must have been a major turn on for her.
 
And naturally I soon learned that the only reason I'd been called was because every other candidate had "enemies."  I was the only candidate with no (known) baggage.  No one expected anything from me.  I was told who my counselors were, which made sense because I didn't know anyone.  Our leadership meetings were pleasant interludes where my counselors took turns telling me the secrets they knew about not only my elders, but about the high priests and (oh la la) the Relief Society!  
 
Now this was a long time ago (1968 - 1970) so I don't remember all the details, but two things are seared into my memory:  back then there was this thing called The Ward Building Fund and members were supposed to contribue.  Those who didn't contribute were visited.  The non-contributing elders were visited...by me.  It was like tracting.  "Hi, I'm from the CJCLDS and I know you don't know me, but I'm the EQP and I'm here to ask you to contribute to the building fund..."  I got the same results I'd gotten tracting across the street from a Catholic cathedral.
 
And then one very notorious jack mormon dairy farmer somehow talked a bunch of us into going to Salt Lake, to a porno theater, where we watched a scantily clad Japanese male chase a naked Japanese woman up and down sea side dunes and every 15 minutes, for an hour, he'd have sandy sex with her.  And then the jack mo bought a 12 pack of .03% alcohol and tried to get us all to drink some.  Of course I didn't, what with being the EQP an' all...
 
I got to go on some cool outings as a priesthood chaperon, including a really fun bus trip to San Francisco, which included a tour of Treasure Island, where, while on a real live Navy sub, I hit that klaxon that goes "awooga awooga"  And I yelled, "Dive, dive, dive!"  I got a real dose of the spirit coursing through my bosom with that one!!   
 
I was the silliest, sorriest EQP that has ever been.  I told off-color jokes to the YM!  I lusted (in my heart) after the healthy blonde milkmaids!  I did nothing to help a single elder in my charge.  I never felt anything remotely resembling the spirit, never thought about magnifying the calling.  I liked the title, but the work was soooo fcuking boring !!   
 
And all because the bishop, who seemed to avoid me as much as possible, escaped a whole lot of criticism by picking someone no one had anything against.  I have no idea what the people thought of me, and doubt that it bothered me.  We made no friends in that ward; when we moved out, after graduation, no one said a damn thing, which was fine by me. 
 
Me, an EQP.  Proof absolute that mormonism is a joke.  Seriously, you should book me for "coming out" parties:
 
 "Mom, dad, I don't believe in the divinity of the church, that JS was a prophet, or that Tommy Monson is a prophet.  As proof, I'd like you to meet Elder OldDog.  He was an EQP there in Lakeview Ward in 1968.  Go ahead, ask him a question... for instance, ask him what he thinks of golf..."   What testimony could survive that?


   


Posted: 05 March 2014 08:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
HeatherMFT
Newbie
Rank
Joined  2014-03-03
 
  
 
Well this isnt a priesthood interview story, but my last interview with my bishop was when he called me in to tell me that I was not repentant enough (as I was living with my fiance and not taking the sacrament), he pointed to the picture of Jesus in his office and told me that I was shaming Jesus and that I was invited to attend my disciplinary hearing. 
 
I told him that there was no way that I was going to a meeting where a bunch of old men sit around and judge me for my life choices.
 
I was disfellowshiped, but appreciated that little kick to realize that I never wanted to go back 
 


   


Posted: 05 March 2014 08:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
Ninon de Lenclos
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Joined  2007-10-30
 
  
 
Elder OldDog:
Absolute proof that TSCC is just a fancy club:  
 
I am a silly, silly man.  I like being silly.  I've always been silly, I've always wanted to make people laugh.  (I tell my G/F that it's to make sure no one tries to get close to me, that I'm really extremely anti-social.  It's true!)
 
So I had a fun, silly mission.  I got to the Y because back in the 60s any RM who wanted in, got in!.  And I was a silly student.  So silly that I got married at the end of that first school year; met her at Halloween, got engaged (her idea) at Christmas and married at the end of May.  And we found a great little house out in the Lakeview Ward, $75/month, basically across the street from the Lakeview Ward chapel.  Good (but silly) TBM that I was, we attended regularly.  I was certainly an oddity there.  Picture all those lilly w(W)hite mormones enduring a full-on, nut brown Mexican in their midst.  That's a ward with a lot of history.  Back then, Lakeview Road ran through dairy farms, with generations living on the land...all White.  
 
All I wanted to do was be silly.  But just before the start of school in the Fall, I got called as the EQP.  Seriously, the EQP.  Not a counselor, not a secretary in some other ward organization...  the EQP.  I swear to ghawd, I actually wondered if ghawd was going to start with EQP and then push me up the ladder, to apostle, just to mess with me...
 
Naturally my TBM wife was thrilled because she got to tell her born and bred in Texas TBM brothers that her (Mexican) husband was the EQP in a real world ward, not some chickenshit student ward.  Must have been a major turn on for her.
 
And naturally I soon learned that the only reason I'd been called was because every other candidate had "enemies."  I was the only candidate with no (known) baggage.  No one expected anything from me.  I was told who my counselors were, which made sense because I didn't know anyone.  Our leadership meetings were pleasant interludes where my counselors took turns telling me the secrets they knew about not only my elders, but about the high priests and (oh la la) the Relief Society!  
 
Now this was a long time ago (1968 - 1970) so I don't remember all the details, but two things are seared into my memory:  back then there was this thing called The Ward Building Fund and members were supposed to contribue.  Those who didn't contribute were visited.  The non-contributing elders were visited...by me.  It was like tracting.  "Hi, I'm from the CJCLDS and I know you don't know me, but I'm the EQP and I'm here to ask you to contribute to the building fund..."  I got the same results I'd gotten tracting across the street from a Catholic cathedral.
 
And then one very notorious jack mormon dairy farmer somehow talked a bunch of us into going to Salt Lake, to a porno theater, where we watched a scantily clad Japanese male chase a naked Japanese woman up and down sea side dunes and every 15 minutes, for an hour, he'd have sandy sex with her.  And then the jack mo bought a 12 pack of .03% alcohol and tried to get us all to drink some.  Of course I didn't, what with being the EQP an' all...
 
I got to go on some cool outings as a priesthood chaperon, including a really fun bus trip to San Francisco, which included a tour of Treasure Island, where, while on a real live Navy sub, I hit that klaxon that goes "awooga awooga"  And I yelled, "Dive, dive, dive!"  I got a real dose of the spirit coursing through my bosom with that one!!   
 
I was the silliest, sorriest EQP that has ever been.  I told off-color jokes to the YM!  I lusted (in my heart) after the healthy blonde milkmaids!  I did nothing to help a single elder in my charge.  I never felt anything remotely resembling the spirit, never thought about magnifying the calling.  I liked the title, but the work was soooo fcuking boring !!   
 
And all because the bishop, who seemed to avoid me as much as possible, escaped a whole lot of criticism by picking someone no one had anything against.  I have no idea what the people thought of me, and doubt that it bothered me.  We made no friends in that ward; when we moved out, after graduation, no one said a damn thing, which was fine by me. 
 
Me, an EQP.  Proof absolute that mormonism is a joke.  Seriously, you should book me for "coming out" parties:
 
 "Mom, dad, I don't believe in the divinity of the church, that JS was a prophet, or that Tommy Monson is a prophet.  As proof, I'd like you to meet Elder OldDog.  He was an EQP there in Lakeview Ward in 1968.  Go ahead, ask him a question... for instance, ask him what he thinks of golf..."   What testimony could survive that?
 
This is a wonderful story, Elder OldDog!  You have such a great way of looking at life...and I love the stories you tell about all the funny, amazing, adventures you've had...and you make golf sound like something intensely wonderful that everyone should experience...at least sometimes.   
 
Thank you for adding so much to my life!!  You are one of the great storytellers of postmormon.org!!!
 
Ninon   


   


Posted: 05 March 2014 09:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]   

   
 
SuziQ
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Joined  2010-02-26
 
  
 
This was not a Priesthood interview but rather my first TR interview many years ago.  It was with the Stake Pres. since it was my first TR.  I don't remember much about it except this one odd story he told me which I'd never heard before or since.  
 
He told me that he had learned of an ancient Jewish book which had the story of Laban from the perspective of Laban's people.  They had found Laban's decapitated body, their records had been stolen, no one knew who had done it, yada, yada, yada.
 
He said it just confirmed his testimony of the BoM.   I wondered why just this stake pres. would have that information and no one else.  Duh!  (we need a light bulb icon)


   


Posted: 06 March 2014 08:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]   

   
 
Avatar
Runtu
Long Timer
RankRankRankRankRank
Joined  2007-06-03
 
  
 
I've been in a few bizarre interviews, but I have to confess that I gave one or two bizarre interviews of my own.
 
About 20 years ago I was the EQP in our ward in Orem, Utah. It was a "family" ward, but was about 75% young married students. We also had some genuinely crazy people in that ward, including two nutwads who had decided that ET Benson was being held against his will in his apartment in SLC by church leaders who wanted to stop him speaking out about the New World Order. Thus, they bought a machine gun and stashed it and some other weapons around Temple Square before their planned assault to liberate the prophet.
 
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/339613/SL-COUNTY-FACES-SUIT-OVER-RELIGIOUS-CLOTHING-AND-DIET.html?pg=all
 
They were members of our ward before their incarceration and after their return from exile in Uruguay (their home country).
 
But I digress. Down the street from us lived a morbidly obese guy who spent most of his time studying LDS scripture and other historical writings. Needless to say, he was nucking futs. His poor longsuffering wife worked to support the family, while he sat around reading and neglecting his two kids. I kid you not, but on several occasions he called me to ask me to come over and discipline his kids. I politely declined.
 
So, this nutjob somehow connected with the nutjob who lived next door to us, who ended up dropping out of college and quitting his job to follow his mentor's lead in doing nothing but search, ponder, and pray. (I should probably mention that both these guys were Birch-Society, tinfoil-hat types politically.)
 
One of my first jobs as EQP was to assign home teachers. Our numbers were really bad (30% or so), even though the ward boundaries were 2 blocks by 6 blocks. Right after I made the assignments, my next-door neighbor called to tell me he was going to have to think about whether he could accept the calling. I told him that he was free to decide what he wanted to do.
 
A few days later he called and asked me to come over and talk. I didn't expect that I'd be treated to a 4-hour monologue about his newfound beliefs (I hadn't been aware of his meetings with the other nutjob). He told me he'd immersed himself deeply in the scriptures and had been fasting and praying for weeks. He had concluded that his relationship with God was most important, that the church didn't matter to him. He was good with God, and that's what counted.
 
For whatever reason, I told him in no uncertain terms that he couldn't just discard the prophets and apostles as well-meaning old men in Salt Lake. If he did, I told him he was going to lose what he had: his wife and his kids. I've never done anything like that in my life, and I was shocked to hear those words come out of my mouth. He looked at me as if I was crazy, and I left.
 
Things went from bad to worse in his house. I would see him sitting on a chair in the front yard reading while his kids played unsupervised. Twice I watched as one of the kids fell and was injured right in front of him, and he didn't even raise his eyes from whatever book he was reading. Eventually, his wife gave him an ultimatum: get a job and support us, or we're though. She didn't carry out the threat, but she arranged for him to get a job in Washington state with a relative. She said he had 6 months to work there and show he was willing to support them. He lasted about a month and then came home, telling his wife the spirit had told him to quit the job and spend 30 days fasting and praying. She threw him out.
 
The next time I saw him, he was unemployed, living in his parents' basement, and persona non grata with his ex-wife and their now-3 kids. He said, "I should have listened to you."
 
I look back on that and don't think I needed any special inspiration. I just knew he was acting like a douchebag and his wife had reached the limits of her patience. Maybe it was "unrighteous dominion" to call down judgment from heaven like that, but at the time I thought that was the only thing that might work.
 
I don't know where he is these days. The morbidly obese nutjob is divorced and, last I heard, joined the Community of Christ, where he's as much of a zealot as ever.
 
When I have time, I'll tell you the story of the Uruguayan ex-cons and how I came to have my life and my family's lives threatened.
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