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Wny no accounts of missionary activity to the Native Americans?  
Posted: 21 February 2014 05:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
Nephi
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We are to believe now that the land preserved from all other nations actually had large populations of Native Americans who were here before Lehi and his wonderous boats made landfall.
 
Where in the Book of Mormon are any accounts of missionaries being sent to these people? No missionary tours. No efforts to teach  them 'the truth' even as many L-d$,inc types claim the Nephites took over 'being in charge' during the time.
 
Where are the accounts of any contact with these people? Surely there were contacts since the numbers mentioned in the BofM as battle casualties and such could not have avoided being noticed.
 
No mention of any of them.
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Posted: 21 February 2014 06:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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Give them time, jeez.
 
Don't you know, that when you have stuck to one story for nearly 200 years and then irrefutable evidence suddenly forces you to abandon that story it takes some time to develop your new story.
 
I'm sure there are numerous spiritually tuned in "scholars" recieving inspiriation (errr... making sh!t up) as we speak.
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Posted: 21 February 2014 07:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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Mountainhippie:
Give them time, jeez.
 
Don't you know, that when you have stuck to one story for nearly 200 years and then irrefutable evidence suddenly forces you to abandon that story it takes some time to develop your new story.
 
I',m sure there are numerous spiritually tuned in "scholars" recieving inspiriation (errr... making sh!t up) as we speak.
 
 There's nothing to refute here.  (Hands waving)   The Nephites went on missions to the Lamanites all the time.  We now have a better understanding of just who the lamanites were.  They were all the people who weren't nephites just like the Jews and Gentiles of biblical context.  See there is even precedent.
 
I think I'm on my way to understanding how apologetics work. 
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Posted: 21 February 2014 04:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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If you're a TBM apologist, you say that all of the existing people that were in the land were the Jaredites and because we don't know as much about their genetic linage, that's where all the asian DNA comes from.  Walla...
 
We all learned to spin this BS growing up...if you want someone to sell terminex termite services, knives, perfume, etc. door to door, if you need someone for your multilevel marketing scheme, to sell supplements of dubious efficacy, grab one of us...we've been taught by the best how to spin a story - JS and BY themselves.  If there's any gap in any story, we can make a spin-off story that will empty your pockets.  Welcome to the Morg, your base all belong to us. 
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Posted: 21 February 2014 05:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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Hikin_az:
Mountainhippie:
Give them time, jeez.
 
Don't you know, that when you have stuck to one story for nearly 200 years and then irrefutable evidence suddenly forces you to abandon that story it takes some time to develop your new story.
 
I',m sure there are numerous spiritually tuned in "scholars" recieving inspiriation (errr... making sh!t up) as we speak.
 
 There's nothing to refute here.  (Hands waving)   The Nephites went on missions to the Lamanites all the time.  We now have a better understanding of just who the lamanites were.  They were all the people who weren't nephites just like the Jews and Gentiles of biblical context.  See there is even precedent.
 
I think I'm on my way to understanding how apologetics work. 
LOL!  I wonder if some apologist will someday take your idea and try to run with it.    That'd make me smile.
 


   


Posted: 21 February 2014 07:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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There were other people in the Americas during the Book of Mormon timeframe, but the Nephites never interacted with them because the Nephites and Laminates lived in the African nation of Eritrea. The only people in the Americas were "other" people.
 
http://ldsmovement.blogspot.com/2008/06/embaye-melekin.html
 
http://www.amazon.com/Manifestations-Mysteries-Revealed-Embaye-Melekin/dp/0968156916/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393038586&sr=8-1&keywords=manifestations+mysteries+revealed
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Posted: 21 February 2014 08:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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Mountainhippie:
Give them time, jeez.
 
Don't you know, that when you have stuck to one story for nearly 200 years and then irrefutable evidence suddenly forces you to abandon that story it takes some time to develop your new story.
 
I'm sure there are numerous spiritually tuned in "scholars" recieving inspiriation (errr... making sh!t up) as we speak.
 
The missionary story left in that clause for future additions. Supposedly, only a small portion of the golden plates were said to have been "translated". The majority of the imaginary record is being withheld until the survivors of the 2nd coming holocaust are righteous enough to be given the higher teachings in the record. Of course the glorious 15 penguins can't release any of the continued record because the angel Moroni-Nephi-Joseph hasn't been permitting for that to happen yet. That angel is claimed to have charge of the record to this day. How convenient. If they tried some further spin they would be up against all the latest technology and scientific study demanding to see the facts ie: plates.
 
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Posted: 24 February 2014 09:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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Next up: Supplemental pamphlets....outlining the bizarre histories of migrating tribes. "God" will reveal these "stories" to the correlating committee and they will be distributed among members and missionaries for absorption into the cult over the next 200 years. Small footnotes will contain "myths" about god changing the Haplo-groups for faith-promoting uplifts. See a:/b:/c:
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Posted: 24 February 2014 09:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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I had a great great * (dunno the number) grandfather named Ira Hatch who was a missionary to the native americans. Spoke a dozen languages and was a guide for the pioneers across the plains back and forth. There were a couple faith promoting stories passed down that I was told, and read in a memoir book collected and published by one of his other great great * whatever grandchildren. He was a polygamist, my Mom's mom's side comes through his fourth wife who was half Navaho/half Paiute. The baby was a love child of two different tribes who wasn't accepted by either, so Ira Hatch raised the child, then made her his wife. Somehow that is acceptable...? Dunno lol. Anyway, one of the stories was about how him and his companion got kidnapped and were about to be killed by a tribe but they let him pray to the same "great spirit" before killing him, and the spirit touched all of them and they let him go instead. The other one was about Ira teaching a tribal chief about the history behind the book of mormon, and that chief saying he knows its true because their legends speak of a record of their people that somehow disappeared long ago. I ate it up as a TBM, but it's very circumstantial/anecdotal evidence for me right now that doesn't affect how I feel about the Book of Mormon or the church either way. 

   


Posted: 24 February 2014 03:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
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tapirrider
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Also, there is no debate in Book of Mormon over the status of pure descendants of Lehi towards gentile converts. No mention at all about others not having been circumcised, etc. Those were major New Testament points about the ministry of Paul, the apostle to the gentiles. But there is nothing comparable or even hinted at in the Book of Mormon.
 
Today's Mormonism would have us believe that a small group of people practicing Hebrew traditions sent missionaries out to all of those vast numbers of inhabitants in ancient America, and the question of circumcision never even came up.


   


            
 
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Debunking FAIR - a sequel to ‘Letter to a CES Director’  
Posted: 23 February 2014 07:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
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Letter to a CES Director went viral on the internet in the spring of 2013. In the fall of 2013, LDS apologetic group FairMormon publicly released an analysis of the CES Letter. In response, Jeremy has now released Debunking FAIR's Debunking. http://www.cesletter.com/debunking-fairmormon/ 

   


Posted: 23 February 2014 10:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
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MormonThink:
Letter to a CES Director went viral on the internet in the spring of 2013. In the fall of 2013, LDS apologetic group FairMormon publicly released an analysis of the CES Letter. In response, Jeremy has now released Debunking FAIR's Debunking. http://www.cesletter.com/debunking-fairmormon/
 
 Wow.  I read several sections and skimmed a few others.  This is a very thorough take down of the FAIR response to the original letter.
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Posted: 23 February 2014 12:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
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MormonThink:
Letter to a CES Director went viral on the internet in the spring of 2013. In the fall of 2013, LDS apologetic group FairMormon publicly released an analysis of the CES Letter. In response, Jeremy has now released Debunking FAIR's Debunking. http://www.cesletter.com/debunking-fairmormon/
From the introduction (emphasis added):
 
.............
Some people think that people are good because of the Church. I think the goodness the Church has is because of the people. I hold in my heart a great love for members of the Church. They raised me. They supported me. They love me. They were there on my wedding day. They are my family. They are my friends.
 
I am not against these people - some of the most wonderful and amazing people I’ve ever known. I’m against censorship. I’m against not telling the rest of the story. I believe members and investigators absolutely deserve to know the rest of the story so that they can truly make a balanced and informed decision on whether or not to commit their lives to Mormonism.
 
It is in this spirit that I present this project, Debunking FAIR's Debunking.
................
 

 
 
Only had time to read part of it so far, but I like what I have seen.  Thanks for drawing attention to it.
 
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Posted: 23 February 2014 02:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
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I don't know whether to say thanks for notifying us of this well-written resource, or be upset that you're preventing me from getting my work done this afternoon 
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Posted: 23 February 2014 03:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
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I've been making my way through this all day.  And loving it.  I'm with some of the other commenters, don't know if I should say thanks for bringing it up, or be annoyed that my Sunday is almost gone.  I'll go with thanks!
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Posted: 23 February 2014 10:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
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Thanks for sharing this with us. This is the best compilation of research and reason refuting Mormon apologists. I doubt that most Mormons will ever read it as the leaders have instructed them not to question. This will help to free those who do venture to open their minds and look at it. 
 
I have almost lost the heart to share this sort of information with tbm wife, family and member friends as I see how much the church means to them. Changing ones paradigm regarding religion upsets the family balance as we all know. 
 
I am not shy to let people know that I no longer believe but don't explain why unless they invite me to explain. They never do. Perhaps they are afraid of what they might find out. 


   


Posted: 23 February 2014 11:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
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Wow.
Jeremy thoroughly destroys FAIR LDS on the topic of Polyandry alone.
The real sin of  Mormonism is that it forces otherwise good and honest men, to lie in order to defend the faith. You have to lie in order to defend Joseph and Brigham secretly stealing other men's wives, while they were away faithfully serving missions for the church, then having sex with them and making babies with them. 
Convince them of absurdities and they will commit attrocities.
When otherwise good and honest men are willing to lie in order to protect "The Good Name of the Church" (Their egotistical attachment to the SuperEgo) it is no wonder the church is such a haven for sexual predtors. 
The ignorance about sexual perversion is rampant in the Mormon church.  
Anybody who can lie through their teeth in order to justify the perverted sexual practices of their faith's founding fathers, should not be trusted around women or children, or men for that matter.  
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Posted: 24 February 2014 09:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
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This debunking is awesome. It's a lengthy read, but every point is critical.
 
It should be required reading for TBMs, NOMs, postmos, exmos and investigators. 
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Posted: 24 February 2014 10:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
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Stayed up reading until midnight last night.  I've got some time today, too, to continue on.  I'm not sure why I feel so compelled to read this: I already know that the LDS church is founded on deceit.  I know that it can't deliver its promises of happiness and lasting relationships.  I've seen how it tramples those who don't quite fit.  But still I read on.
 
I wonder what I'm looking for.  Maybe I'll find it now.  [Off to read some more...]


   


            
 
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Resigning Membership
by WanderingGeek
Big Bang Theory Proven--Validation for this Scientist's Life's Work--Beautiful!
by St Monica
One Little Match Thomas S. Monson
by josephs myth
Bumper Sticker
by Strong Free & Thankful
Church asks activist group to reconsider plans to protest GC
by Jammerwoch
Just when things start to go well.......
by GraciesDaddy
Anyone following what is going on in London???
by Swearing Elder
WHAT was I thinking!!!!
by WanderingGeek
Habeas Corpus and the Courts: Individual Liberties from Joseph Smith to Abraham Lincoln to Guantanamo
by parrotheaddred