postmormon.org discussions

This page is loading.
Please wait...
 
OCTOBER CONFERENCE
"Past, Present, and Possibilities"
Oct. 18-20, 2013




















 


Financial Report for 2011 to Date

Financial Report for 2010 to Date

Financial Report for 2009

Twin Falls Newspaper Article

Twin Falls Billboard

Financial Report for 2009 to Date




The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
[Sound Thinking]

Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
[Peep Stone!]

Native American DNA
[Post-Mormon Mag.]



Portland Oregon meetup
[Portland Post-Mor...] 
Las Vegas March Meetup! Sunday 16th 1pm
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
General Non-Conference: Palmetto State Session
[Palmetto Post-Mor...] 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (3/2)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
March Get Together
[Idaho Falls Post-...] 
San Diego lunch this Sunday at noon!
[San Diego Post-Mo...] 
March 2nd 2014-Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
FEB 22 - First ever Boston Meeting!
[Boston, MA Post-M...] 
Every Sunday in Utah
[Salt Lake City Po...] 
February Meetup Sunday the 16th 2:00pm Grand Cafe at Sunset Station
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
Secret FB group and dinner social
[East Tennessee Po...] 
Feb 2nd Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series
[Southern Utah Pos...] 


General Non-Conference: Palmetto State Session
Swearing Elder

General Non-Conference: Palmetto State Session
dovahkiyn

February Meetup Sunday the 16th 2:00pm Grand Cafe at Sunset Station
onendagus

Visitors welcome !
priorvej12

Las Vegas meetup Sun Jan 12th 1pm at Milos in Boulder City
onendagus

January 5th- Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series
gypsyrose

Book of Mormon Tories
by Tom Donofrio 
Book of Mormon Tories
by Nogginus Skepticalus 
Native American DNA
by GTM 
Ongoing Monthly Gatherings!
Reuben

Ongoing Monthly Gatherings!
Virginia Steve

CALM meet up for June
4bagel

Revised NW Women's Retreat Announcement
lunaverse

Austin Fall Party
lightrider702

Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
by Timo 
Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by ExMoNemo 
Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by Mikki B 
Resignation Letter to My Family
Mikki B

Resignation Letter to My Family
Waveoftruth

Resignation Letter to My Family
In search of Truth

Carolina PostMo Night: “The Master"
Swearing Elder

Washington D.C. Post-Mormon Lunch - August 28
freckles

Resignation Letter to My Family
INRETROSPECT

Financial Report for 2011 to Date
by Jeff Ricks 
Resignation Letter to My Family
pennw


            

Home Our Community
Discussion Forums
    · The Community Forum
 Post-Mormon Chapters

Chapters in Utah

Cache Valley Post-Mormons
 Calm of N. Davis County and Weber County Post-Mormons
 Calm of South Davis County Post-Mormons
 Calm of Utah County Post-Mormons
 Long Valley Post-Mormons
 Millard County Post-Mormons
 New Hope Post-Mormons of Weber Co.
 Salt Lake City Post-Mormons
 Sanpete County Post-Mormons
 Southern Utah Post Mormon Association
 Uintah Basin Post-Mormons
 USU Post-Mormons
 Other chapters in the USA

Chapters in Canada

Calgary Post-Mormons
 Canada Edmonton Post-Mormon
 Fraser Valley Post-Mormons
 GTA Canada Post-Mormons
 Lethbridge Canada Post-Mormons
 Victoria British Columbia Post-Mormons
 Chapters in Europe

Denmark Post-Mormons
 France Post-Mormons
 North United Kingdom Post-Mormons
 Norway Post Mormons
 Scotland Post-Mormons
 Sweden Post-Mormons
 Switzerland Post-Mormons
 UK Post-Mormons
 All other chapters

New Zealand Post-Mormons
 Post-Mormons Down Under
 World Map of Chapter Locations
 Starting a Post Mormon Chapter FAQ
 Our Library
It Gets Better!
 Post-Mormon Magazine
 Peep-Stone Magazine
 Sound Thinking Magazine
 Post-Mormon Scrapbook
 Our Exit Stories Member Options
Post-Mormon News Blog
 Staff Members Blog
 Board of Trustees Blog
 

Forum Home  >  Member Forums  >  The Community Forum  >  Thread 
   It gets better! Resources to help with coping 
   House Rules for posting on this website 
   Why is there sometimes anger here? 
   Glossary of Post-Mormon Terms 
   Frequently Asked Questions 

  
Advanced Search     

       
Reference to Mormon leaders saying it is OK to question  
Posted: 26 February 2014 11:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
Avatar
Laman and Lemon
Long Timer
RankRankRankRankRank
Joined  2007-10-18
 
  
 
It's been awhile since I posted. As time/healing moves on, I am getting rusty on my ability to remember references. I havemy fifth set of missionaries coming over this afternoon.
 
I am looking for an LDS authority, preferably on lds.org talking about the value of truth, how Mormonism can and should be scrutinized, it'll hold up to the test, etc.
 
Any references for this?
 
TIA


   


Posted: 26 February 2014 11:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
Avatar
AprilT
Member
RankRankRank
Joined  2013-09-02
 
  
 
I'm not sure if it's on LDS.org, but I use this quote by J. Ruben Clark quite often.
 
"If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed.” - President J. Reuben Clark 
 Signature
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.  ~Edmund Burke


   


Posted: 26 February 2014 09:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
Felix
Member
RankRankRank
Joined  2012-05-15
 
  
 
 "Wherefore, confound your enemies; call upon them to meet you both in public and in private" Joseph Smith - Doctrine and Covenants 71:7 (1831).
"Convince us of our errors of doctrine, if we have any, by reason, by logical arguments, or by the word of God, and we will be ever grateful for the information" Orson Pratt - The Seer, p.15 (1854)
"If a faith will not bear to be investigated; if its preachers and professors are afraid to have it examined, their foundation must be very weak." George A. Smith - Journal of Discourses, vol. 14 p. 216 (1871) 
"I have had many revelations; I have seen and heard for myself, and know these things are true, and nobody on earth can disprove them.  ... I say to the whole world, receive the truth, no matter who presents it to you.  Take up the Bible, compare the religion of the Latter-day Saints with it, and see if it will stand the test." Brigham Young - Journal of Discourses, vol. 16 p. 46 (1873)
"I am here to give this people, called Latter-day Saints, counsel to direct them in the path of life. ... If there is an Elder here, or any member of this Church, called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who can bring up the first idea, the first sentence that I have delivered to the people as counsel that is wrong, I really wish they would do it; but they cannot do it, for the simple reason that I have never given counsel that is wrong; this is the reason." Brigham Young - Journal of Discourses, vol. 16 p. 161 (1873)
 "I am willing to exchange all the errors and false notions I have for one truth, and should consider that I had made a good bargain. We are not afraid of light and truth. Our religion embraces every truth in heaven, earth or hell; it embraces all truth” Wilford Woodruff - Journal of Discourses, vol. 18 p. 117 (1875)
 Gordon B. Hinckley:
Well, we have nothing to hide. Our history is an open book. They may find what they are looking for, but the fact is the history of the church is clear and open and leads to faith and strength and virtues."
 
B.H. Roberts:
frankly state events as they occurred, in full consideration of all related circumstances, allowing the line of condemnation or justification to fall where it may..." - epilogue in The New Mormon History: Revisionist Essays on the Past. Also  here.
John Taylor:
I think a full, free talk is frequently of great use; we want nothing secret nor underhanded, and I for one want no association with things that cannot be talked about and will not bear investigation. - Journal of Discourses, Volume 20, Page 264.
Dr. Hugh Nibley:
The Book of Mormon can and should be tested. It invites criticism. An Approach to The Book of Mormon, 1957, p. 13.
Orson Pratt:
Convince us of our errors of Doctrine, if we have any, by reason, by logical arguments, or by the Word of God and we will ever be grateful for the information and you will ever have the pleasing reflections that you have been instruments in the hands of God of redeeming your fellow beings. - The Seer, p. 15
Joseph Fielding Smith:
Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground. - Doctrines of Salvation, Page 188.
Elder Marlin K. Jensen:
Our history is especially critical, because in a sense, we rise or fall with our history," he said. "If those early beginning stories that Joseph Smith told us are true, then we are the only true church as we contend. If they're not true, then we don't have what we purport to have.Mormon Times, Nov 19, 2009.
J. Reuben Clark:
If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed. - J. Reuben Clark, D. Michael Quinn, J. Reuben Clark: The Church Years. Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University Press, 1983, p. 24.
 
“The man who cannot listen to an argument which opposes his views either has a weak position or is a weak defender of it. No opinion that cannot stand discussion or criticism is worth holding… In general it is true that nothing which cannot stand up under discussion or criticism is worth defending”    James E. Talmage
 
“Only error fears freedom of expression.”  Hugh B. Brown
 
"We have heard men who hold the priesthood remark that they would do anything they were told to do by those who preside over them [even] if they knew it were wrong; but such obedience as this is worse than folly to us; it is slavery in the extreme; and the man who would thus willingly degrade himself should not claim a rank among intelligent beings, until he turn from his folly.  A man of god would despise the idea.  Others, in the extreme exercise of their almightly authority have taught that such obedience was necessary, and that no matter what the saints were told to do by their presidents they should do it without any questions.  When elders of Israel will so far indulge in these extreme notions of obedience as to teach
them to the people, it is generally because they have it in their hearts to do wrong themselves."
                   Joseph Smith
 
 
More than half a century ago, LDS apostle Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground. If Joseph Smith was a deceiver who willfully attempted to mislead the people, then he should be exposed; his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false."
 
 


   


Posted: 27 February 2014 09:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
Avatar
Laman and Lemon
Long Timer
RankRankRankRankRank
Joined  2007-10-18
 
  
 
Awesome.  Thanks guys. 

   


Posted: 28 February 2014 05:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
Avatar
GraciesDaddy
Long Timer
RankRankRankRankRank
Joined  2008-11-15
 
  
 
Good to see you here L&L... and your "half evil" avatar!  
 
Namaste.
 Signature
The above post is merely the experience, observation and perspective of a NeverMo, offered in support of the members of PostMormon.org

“Nolite te bastardes carborundorum” aka: “Don’t let the bastards grind you down.” — “The Handmaid’s Tale” ...Margaret Atwood

“Nearly 7 billion people on the planet, hurting one person’s feelings really isn’t a big deal. You’ll find other friends. Better ones that won’t try to force feed you pig shit.” — General Smith



   


            
 
 ‹‹ Yippppeeeee!        Church Buildings Vandalized in Idaho.....(news link) ››  

Forum Home  >  Member Forums  >  The Community Forum  >  Thread


ExpressionEngine Discussion Forum - Version 2.1.2


   

Our next project
will be announced soon.
Tax exempt status.




Agster
Destroyingangl
igmomma
Mayerbabe
Strong Free & Thankful
the morm rath
Ur
Logged in: 8
Not logged in: 75
Logged in anonymous: 1



(Joined in last 24 hours)  ximenem
VeronicaFranco
Total members: 9412 


WHY? is church so boring?
by Strong Free & Thankful
Looking for feedback related to my new book about the fraud of Mormonism.
by Strong Free & Thankful
UPDATE on Seminary Problems
by haylee
Gave Some Advice Today - Conflicted
by Elder Skelter
This is Hard
by haylee
Response to essay on polygamy
by Silver Girl
Depression After Resignation
by Silver Girl
Baptismal Covenants...
by Matter Unorganized
Cleaning House
by Hiker Daddy
Official Ruling in Phillips Prosecution
by Swearing Elder
Wine was different in Jesus time
by WanderingGeek
Resigning Membership
by WanderingGeek
Big Bang Theory Proven--Validation for this Scientist's Life's Work--Beautiful!
by St Monica
One Little Match Thomas S. Monson
by josephs myth
Bumper Sticker
by Strong Free & Thankful
Church asks activist group to reconsider plans to protest GC
by Jammerwoch
Just when things start to go well.......
by GraciesDaddy
Anyone following what is going on in London???
by Swearing Elder
WHAT was I thinking!!!!
by WanderingGeek
Habeas Corpus and the Courts: Individual Liberties from Joseph Smith to Abraham Lincoln to Guantanamo
by parrotheaddred 

  
This page is loading.
Please wait...
 
OCTOBER CONFERENCE
"Past, Present, and Possibilities"
Oct. 18-20, 2013




















 


Financial Report for 2011 to Date

Financial Report for 2010 to Date

Financial Report for 2009

Twin Falls Newspaper Article

Twin Falls Billboard

Financial Report for 2009 to Date




The Enemies of Reason - Richard Dawkins
[Sound Thinking]

Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
[Peep Stone!]

Native American DNA
[Post-Mormon Mag.]



Portland Oregon meetup
[Portland Post-Mor...] 
Las Vegas March Meetup! Sunday 16th 1pm
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
General Non-Conference: Palmetto State Session
[Palmetto Post-Mor...] 
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (3/2)
[San Francisco Bay...] 
March Get Together
[Idaho Falls Post-...] 
San Diego lunch this Sunday at noon!
[San Diego Post-Mo...] 
March 2nd 2014-Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series
[Southern Utah Pos...] 
FEB 22 - First ever Boston Meeting!
[Boston, MA Post-M...] 
Every Sunday in Utah
[Salt Lake City Po...] 
February Meetup Sunday the 16th 2:00pm Grand Cafe at Sunset Station
[Las Vegas Post-Mo...] 
Secret FB group and dinner social
[East Tennessee Po...] 
Feb 2nd Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series
[Southern Utah Pos...] 


General Non-Conference: Palmetto State Session
Swearing Elder

General Non-Conference: Palmetto State Session
dovahkiyn

February Meetup Sunday the 16th 2:00pm Grand Cafe at Sunset Station
onendagus

Visitors welcome !
priorvej12

Las Vegas meetup Sun Jan 12th 1pm at Milos in Boulder City
onendagus

January 5th- Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series
gypsyrose

Book of Mormon Tories
by Tom Donofrio 
Book of Mormon Tories
by Nogginus Skepticalus 
Native American DNA
by GTM 
Ongoing Monthly Gatherings!
Reuben

Ongoing Monthly Gatherings!
Virginia Steve

CALM meet up for June
4bagel

Revised NW Women's Retreat Announcement
lunaverse

Austin Fall Party
lightrider702

Glad You Asked! The Garden of Eden
by Timo 
Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by ExMoNemo 
Church Authorities, Postmormons Find Common Ground
by Mikki B 
Resignation Letter to My Family
Mikki B

Resignation Letter to My Family
Waveoftruth

Resignation Letter to My Family
In search of Truth

Carolina PostMo Night: “The Master"
Swearing Elder

Washington D.C. Post-Mormon Lunch - August 28
freckles

Resignation Letter to My Family
INRETROSPECT

Financial Report for 2011 to Date
by Jeff Ricks 
Resignation Letter to My Family
pennw


            

Home Our Community
Discussion Forums
    · The Community Forum
 Post-Mormon Chapters

Chapters in Utah

Cache Valley Post-Mormons
 Calm of N. Davis County and Weber County Post-Mormons
 Calm of South Davis County Post-Mormons
 Calm of Utah County Post-Mormons
 Long Valley Post-Mormons
 Millard County Post-Mormons
 New Hope Post-Mormons of Weber Co.
 Salt Lake City Post-Mormons
 Sanpete County Post-Mormons
 Southern Utah Post Mormon Association
 Uintah Basin Post-Mormons
 USU Post-Mormons
 Other chapters in the USA

Chapters in Canada

Calgary Post-Mormons
 Canada Edmonton Post-Mormon
 Fraser Valley Post-Mormons
 GTA Canada Post-Mormons
 Lethbridge Canada Post-Mormons
 Victoria British Columbia Post-Mormons
 Chapters in Europe

Denmark Post-Mormons
 France Post-Mormons
 North United Kingdom Post-Mormons
 Norway Post Mormons
 Scotland Post-Mormons
 Sweden Post-Mormons
 Switzerland Post-Mormons
 UK Post-Mormons
 All other chapters

New Zealand Post-Mormons
 Post-Mormons Down Under
 World Map of Chapter Locations
 Starting a Post Mormon Chapter FAQ
 Our Library
It Gets Better!
 Post-Mormon Magazine
 Peep-Stone Magazine
 Sound Thinking Magazine
 Post-Mormon Scrapbook
 Our Exit Stories Member Options
Post-Mormon News Blog
 Staff Members Blog
 Board of Trustees Blog
 

Forum Home  >  Member Forums  >  The Community Forum  >  Thread 
   It gets better! Resources to help with coping 
   House Rules for posting on this website 
   Why is there sometimes anger here? 
   Glossary of Post-Mormon Terms 
   Frequently Asked Questions 

  
Advanced Search     

       
Is There One Thing That Convinced You Of The Falsity of Mormonism (Or Convinced You To Leave)  
Posted: 27 February 2014 02:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   

   
 
Avatar
Iridium
Jr. Member
RankRank
Joined  2008-04-14
 
  
 
I have a good friend that's abandoned most of mormonism (doesn't go to church), but is still hanging on to the religion.  He's depressed, guilt ridden, and has pretty much ruined his life hanging on to a religion that doesn't work for him.  I 've questioned him about his beliefs, and the only thing I can garner that he still believes is the plan of salvation/temple marriage.  He says "the doctrine is perfect, not the people".  I find this confusing/contradictory.  He has had a lot of casual sex, lots of porn, strippers, lap dances, some drinking, etc. - feels guilty about it all. 
 
He says he believes every word of morminism, but when I question him, he doesn't believe in most of it, or has an alternate interpretation that doesn't coincide with established doctrine.  
 
I'd appreciate your thoughts on anything I could say to help my friend through this.


   


Posted: 27 February 2014 02:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]   

   
 
Avatar
peace out
Long Timer
RankRankRankRankRank
Joined  2010-06-02
 
  
 
For me the book of Abraham videos either on YouTube or on Mormon think really helped me to see that it was a fake if you want something quick you can show him go to glyph number one the one with the lion couch in the book of Abraham and then Google the four sons of Horace and you'll see that those figurines match what you find and the names don't correspond even closely to what Joseph Smith said they were. This should get the wheels rolling and help him past his guilt 

   


Posted: 27 February 2014 02:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]   

   
 
dancemonkey
Jr. Member
RankRank
Joined  2013-02-05
 
  
 
For Me it was the contradiction in profits:  


GBH: Mormons don’t drink caffeine
TSM: Mormons do drink caffeine 
 

JFS: you lose your female and male parts if you don’t make it to the celestial kingdom
Family proclamation: you keep your parts throughout eternity
 

 BY: blacks are cursed
Church: BY was racist we don’t believe  what he taught
 

 This lead me to the conclusion ether Dios is schizophrenic and changes his mind all the time, or he really doesn’t speak to the corporation.   If God does speak to his profits he wouldn't change his mind all the time.


   


Posted: 27 February 2014 03:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]   

   
 
Avatar
res ipsa
Long Timer
RankRankRankRankRank
Joined  2009-04-21
 
  
 
For me, intially it was Richard Packham's lists of all the incorrect prophecies, and all the obviously false/disavowed "doctrines" taught by Joseph Smith and Brigham Young: http://packham.n4m.org/prophet.htm http://packham.n4m.org/byoung.htm
 Signature
“Morality is doing what is right, no matter what you are told.
Religion is doing what you are told, no matter what is right.”
-Author Unknown
”...the good things about the church are not unique and the unique things about the church are not true, what’s the point?”
-Happy Guy
“In the unlikely event that this life is a test, I would hope it is a test of character and integrity rather than obedience and credulity. If the former, I have nothing to fear from my apostasy. If the latter, then God is a scoundrel and all is lost anyway.”
-Robby Sunshine


   


Posted: 27 February 2014 03:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]   

   
 
Avatar
Elder OldDog
Long Timer
RankRankRankRankRank
Joined  2009-07-30
 
  
 
I was out before the interwebz changed the rules...  
 
If you get to a stage in your life where you can bring yourself to ask the question, "Is the mormon church true" and not care that the answer may turn out to be no, then when you start the inquiry, you have a chance to work through to the most logical answer:
 
"The odds are seriously, SERIOUSLY, against it."  
 
You can only sustain a testimony by ignoring the impertinent facts that point to the above conclusion.  And TBMs are absolutely committed to ignoring facts and being FAIR (as in  apologetics) to the church.
 
Maybe your friend is hoping for a deathbed conversion?  Thus the guilt, to keep him in touch with his final desire, which is to have fun being undisciplined until it's time to Chose the Right.
 
It's too bad we don't have access to a pack of jack mo's...  (maybe they don't run in packs?  Maybe the correct phrase would be a six-pack of jack mo's?)  Are jack mo's happy?  Why are they jack mo's, instead of just getting the hell out?
 
Ask your friend, who must be intelligent, since having met you, I can't imagine you would suffer fools (although you WERE nice to me....), if he feels any affinity towards atheism, or at least agnosticism?  See if you can worm out of him what he thinks of ghawd, and why he thinks what he thinks about ghawd, whatever that turns out to be.
 
He kind of sounds a bit too undisciplined to get anything out of this community; maybe he has just gotten into the habit of being scatterbrained about the topic of ghawd and obedience?  I think many of us have areas of our life in which we're scatterbrained.  If I had to work at a 9 to 5 job, I'd be a hopeless failure!!
 
I hope you'll keep us posted, because it is an interesting intellectual question, the jack mo puzzle. 


   


Posted: 27 February 2014 03:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]   

   
 
Avatar
Mayerbabe
Member
RankRankRank
Joined  2014-01-16
 
  
 
My clinchers:
 
The Lost Book of Abraham (YouTube video)
 
Grant Palmer's book
 
I had a series of doubts leading up to these two items, but once I passed the Book of Abraham bridge and Palmer's bridge, I knew there was no going back.  
 Signature
“The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.”
― Gloria Steinem


   


Posted: 27 February 2014 03:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]   

   
 
Avatar
Matter Unorganized
Long Timer
RankRankRankRankRank
Joined  2011-01-22
 
  
 
It was the Book of Abraham video that got me out.
 
If I was still in, the essay on race and the priesthood would have driven me out. They admit that for about 130 years, their prophets, seers and revelators were WRONG, and GOD WAS SILENT on the matter. 
 Signature
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
You’re like the Gandhi of postmo. - Lloyd Dobler


   


Posted: 27 February 2014 03:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]   

   
 
Avatar
Elder OldDog
Long Timer
RankRankRankRankRank
Joined  2009-07-30
 
  
 
But WHY did these different theological proofs get you out, but there is still a mormon church?
 
What is it that made you 'accept' that what you read was true, and then made you able to act on that knowledge?  Cuz there are about X million TBMs who would read those things (and many have) and dismiss them.  
 
Why were you different?  Why were you able to make that paradigm shift, knowing full well that it was not going to be all fun and games?
 
I think that's what Sis. Iridium is getting at...  If I'm wrong, it'll be par for the course. 


   


Posted: 27 February 2014 03:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]   

   
 
Avatar
parrotheaddred
Jr. Member
RankRank
Joined  2013-12-18
 
  
 
The number one thing for me is there dishonesty, since the founding of the church there has been cover ups & lies. If I am a prophet of god, I have been set apart from every other man on this earth, & I can no longer speak as a man. I hold all the keys of the priesthood I am in direct contact with god the father & Jesus Christ. I have had my second anointing, “my calling & election made sure” I have been ordained a king. Therefore, I must be honest with my fellow man. The leaders of the church have continued to perpetuate a lie so they can have money & power. You are not beholden to these men or there lies!! For anything!!! “To thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man.” William Shakespeare. You must let go of Mormonism & find yourself. I would start by listening to, or reading “The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom”, by Miguel Ángel Ruiz. You can listen to it on youtube. It is amazing!! Start your journey of freedom today!! & leave behind the control of old greedy men & there lies. 

   


Posted: 27 February 2014 04:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]   

   
 
Avatar
barelythere
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Joined  2011-01-13
 
  
 
I really believe that leaving Mormonism is done by a snowball effect. 
 
I started off just not being thrilled with church history - which started my distaste. 
 
Then things continued to just pile onto my reasons of not liking church. Money, Dishonesty, manipulation. . . things just kept coming up.
 
 
While I don't feel any regret for anything that I do - like the OP said about their friend.  I personally still like going to church every once and a while, while also enjoying things that mormons disagree with.  I haven't found anything else to fill the void I have.  So until then, I'll attend the LDS church until I'm lucky enough to find something that works better for me. 
 
 Signature
Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn.”
- Ben Franklin


   


Posted: 27 February 2014 04:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]   

   
 
Avatar
Matter Unorganized
Long Timer
RankRankRankRankRank
Joined  2011-01-22
 
  
 
Elder OldDog:
But WHY did these different theological proofs get you out, but there is still a mormon church?
 
What is it that made you 'accept' that what you read was true, and then made you able to act on that knowledge?  Cuz there are about X million TBMs who would read those things (and many have) and dismiss them.  
 
Why were you different?  Why were you able to make that paradigm shift, knowing full well that it was not going to be all fun and games?
 
I think that's what Sis. Iridium is getting at...  If I'm wrong, it'll be par for the course. 
 
  THIS.
 
I guess the issues themselves didn't get me out. It was the fact that the leaders had LIED to me, to my family, to my friends, for how many generations now? Because these leaders required HONESTY of me when I wanted to go to the temple, but they in turn were being DISHONEST with me, my family & friends, and countless other mormons.
 
They have left themselves with no wiggle room, and piecemeal essays and platitudes are not going to cut it.
 
For instance, in the Gospel Principles manual, which was used for Melchizedek priesthood and Relief Society lessons a few years ago (2011?), there is a chapter on honesty. From this chapter (31), I quote:
  
-
To Lie Is Dishonest
Lying is intentionally deceiving others. Bearing false witness is one form of lying. The Lord gave this commandment to the children of Israel: “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour” (Exodus 20:16). Jesus also taught this when He was on earth (see Matthew 19:18). There are many other forms of lying. When we speak untruths, we are guilty of lying. We can also intentionally deceive others by a gesture or a look, by silence, or by telling only part of the truth. Whenever we lead people in any way to believe something that is not true, we are not being honest.
The Lord is not pleased with such dishonesty, and we will have to account for our lies. Satan would have us believe it is all right to lie. He says, “Yea, lie a little; … there is no harm in this” (2 Nephi 28:8). Satan encourages us to justify our lies to ourselves. Honest people will recognize Satan’s temptations and will speak the whole truth, even if it seems to be to their disadvantage.  
Here it is plain to see. The church is dishonest every time it hides facts or shades the truth. They should be 100% truthful, even if it seems to be to their disadvantage.
 
But they are not. They are addicted to lying and deceiving. They are addicted to their own power and will do NOTHING to jeopardize it. Why else would they hide their "essays" on an obscure page of their website, without announcing when the latest essay has been published? They don't want the rank-and-file members to know about these things, but the fact that they put them there gives them plausible deniability.
 
Oh shit, now my blood pressure is going up...  
 Signature
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
You’re like the Gandhi of postmo. - Lloyd Dobler


   


Posted: 27 February 2014 04:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]   

   
 
Avatar
Iridium
Jr. Member
RankRank
Joined  2008-04-14
 
  
 
Elder OldDog:
But WHY did these different theological proofs get you out, but there is still a mormon church?
 
What is it that made you 'accept' that what you read was true, and then made you able to act on that knowledge?  Cuz there are about X million TBMs who would read those things (and many have) and dismiss them.  
 
Why were you different?  Why were you able to make that paradigm shift, knowing full well that it was not going to be all fun and games?
 
I think that's what Sis. Iridium is getting at...  If I'm wrong, it'll be par for the course. 
 
 I think you got it.  What does it take to make that paradigm shift?  TBMs can read all the same information and make excuses & exceptions, and if all else fails, point to the work of satan.  
 
Do you just have to be ready?


   


Posted: 27 February 2014 04:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]   

   
 
Avatar
Iridium
Jr. Member
RankRank
Joined  2008-04-14
 
  
 
And, yeah, jackmormons really are a puzzle.  Generally a tortured group - they suffer in guilt at their supposed transgressions (which would generally not be sins in another religion) but can't make the intellectual leap to dismiss the doctrine as false.  
 
Horrible way to live - believing you're a sinner for doing normal activities, or worse because your inner beliefs contradict what you've been told to believe.  When I was back in the mothership (UT) I can't tell you how many of these tortured souls I encountered.  Painful - more so as I used to be one of them and I know the inner conflict. 
 
Listen, pray, love, hope . . .


   


Posted: 27 February 2014 04:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]   

   
 
Avatar
Mayerbabe
Member
RankRankRank
Joined  2014-01-16
 
  
 
Loving this thread. My husband and I discussed this today. We both came to the conclusion that there has to be a MOTIVATIONAL FORCE at play when learning the truthfulness of the church. 
 
For me, my motivation was simple: I had been depressed and full of anxiety as a member for 19 years.  I was looking for my escape hatch in order to find happiness and peace. 
 
For my husband, his motivation to learn and consider truth was because our 14 year old daughter was very unhappy in the church and told us about some basic "teachings" she disagreed with...mainly, that being gay was a sin.  
 
There has to be a motivation to learning the truth and accepting it.  Most TBM have no such motivation (yet). 
 Signature
“The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.”
― Gloria Steinem


   


            
 
 ‹‹ This is What Real Goodness Looks Like. These Guys Put the Leaders of the Mormon Church to Shame.        Encouraging News Story ››  

Forum Home  >  Member Forums  >  The Community Forum  >  Thread


ExpressionEngine Discussion Forum - Version 2.1.2


   

Our next project
will be announced soon.
Tax exempt status.




Agster
igmomma
Mayerbabe
Strong Free & Thankful
the morm rath
Ur
Logged in: 7
Not logged in: 79
Logged in anonymous: 1



(Joined in last 24 hours)  ximenem
VeronicaFranco
Total members: 9412 


WHY? is church so boring?
by Strong Free & Thankful
Looking for feedback related to my new book about the fraud of Mormonism.
by Strong Free & Thankful
UPDATE on Seminary Problems
by haylee
Gave Some Advice Today - Conflicted
by Elder Skelter
This is Hard
by haylee
Response to essay on polygamy
by Silver Girl
Depression After Resignation
by Silver Girl
Baptismal Covenants...
by Matter Unorganized
Cleaning House
by Hiker Daddy
Official Ruling in Phillips Prosecution
by Swearing Elder
Wine was different in Jesus time
by WanderingGeek
Resigning Membership
by WanderingGeek
Big Bang Theory Proven--Validation for this Scientist's Life's Work--Beautiful!
by St Monica
One Little Match Thomas S. Monson
by josephs myth
Bumper Sticker
by Strong Free & Thankful
Church asks activist group to reconsider plans to protest GC
by Jammerwoch
Just when things start to go well.......
by GraciesDaddy
Anyone following what is going on in London???
by Swearing Elder
WHAT was I thinking!!!!
by WanderingGeek
Habeas Corpus and the Courts: Individual Liberties from Joseph Smith to Abraham Lincoln to Guantanamo
by parrotheaddred